Ukraine Thread

[Brenus]

"Also, unlike the West, Russians feel it is entirely appropriate to lie through your teeth in politics." WMD in Iraq? Bringing Democracy in Balkans (remember Jamie Shea and the horse shoes operation?)? Liberation of Women in Afghanistan? Iraq is a better place now? Saudi Arabia potentially elected as Human Right President? Closing Guantanamo Bay? Ignoring Referendum (EU one)? That is a lot of Russian politician in USA & EU politics!

"As I have said many times (and which Brenus refuses to see)" You are not very convincing. Each time you come back with good reasons to explain why it was not entirely the Nazis fault to slaughter, you know, "well, sure the killing of Polish population is due to historical factors due to the fact that they are Polish and Polish are from Poland, so surely it was a good reason enough to kill them based on the fact they were Polish" kind of explanation, which are very convincing.

"Everybody lies, yet here we speak of the leader of a nuclear state who violates his nation's promises" Do you mean like a signed treaty reassuring that Kosovo is part of Serbia?

"Or do you think Western allies or Soviet troops committed no atrocities in liberated lands or in Germany?" The Soviets did (Kathyn (Sp) as we know) and as well a massive rape campaign (but to be fair, the Yugoslav complain about it and they were allied with the Russians), but I failed to have German, Italian, Hungarian or other Germans Allies villages rounded-up and burned alive in their Churches, house, warehouses or lined-up to be executed with a bullet in the head, and organising a pictures competition (the winner in the Nazi side was the guy killing the mother with her baby in her arm with ONE bullet!).

"Stigmatizing people without a valid reason and explanation" Not a stigmatisation, an explanation, ...dude. You admitted yourself, as a Ukrainian you are not impartial (don't remember the exact wording you used). And to be delusional is how I qualify your analyse on Putin and Ukrainian crisis. Nothing about your person... I explained each time why and when.

"Whom do you have in mind when talking about Nazis, Brenus" All openly Nazi. You see, I have no sympathy for this movement, whatever the nationality of the followers, Russians, French, Ukrainian, Norwegian or US. And in all this debate, the ones not following blindly NATO/EU/US propaganda are labelled a Putin's friends (as illustrated once again by Gilrandir who then complain about personal attack). All my political opinion is against Putin's political stance, from the Anti-Gay, pro-religious and lands annexation (I can prolong the list). In fact, as Ukraine is banning the Gay Parade in Kiev (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-22648210), the actual Kiev Government is probably closer to Putin than I am.
"No one here calls France a fascist state, although the Front National has won more of the vote." There are no openly Fascist nor Nazi Party is France. It is banned by law as to wear Nazi insignia or Uniform (with few exception i.e. in movies making). The danger is still there, but again, 2 MP... It Le Pen comes to power, and if she get a Parliament, she will still have to change the Constitution to create a Fascist State. We had this before in France, and, well, the Fascists failed. We had a demonstration of more than 4 millions in the street to defend freedom against religious fanatics murderers. so we will defeat Fascism as we did in the past. It would be a great help if EU started to be democratic, but we will mange without.