Org Promotion

[ghostofxmaspast]

Informative content, related to Total War, related to the community, made by the community... This is what we should aim for to promote on the Org.

This has been tried. I know the result, you know the result. Everyone who has been here at least 5 years should know the result.

Hate to sound negative, but you're going over the same tired old ground... you're talking about content, but there is no detail there as to where it's going to come from, who is going to produce it and what form it should take. No amount of positive thinking or over exuberance is going to change that.

One possible approach, which perhaps hasn't been considered, is to get rid of the .org's front page altogether and ensure that forums.totalwar.org goes straight to the board index. Then the clear focus will be on the forum it itself without the burden of anyone having to maintain the website. It also focuses on the site's main strength and will get people straight into the forum without 'extra clicks'.

News can take the form of a forum and members can post links, etc and write short articles. This is much more sustainable that the current format which requires someone having to devote time to update something which few probably bother to read. This also puts more into the hands of members and takes away from admins having to maintain it.

[edyzmedieval]

Patience my young (old? ) Padawan.

This will be a bit long.

This is not about the front page, or any other page apart from the forum in itself. The detail where the content is going to come from - we have members who offered themselves to provide content, just above, in this thread. And that's just one example. We still have TW players - myself included, who can provide content. There's hundreds of YouTubers who only require an invitation to come here and post their videos and encourage discussion, alongside them becoming members and actively participating. Why would they do that? Free promotion. We have members, we have guests, we have lurkers - we can provide the views they need. We want their content, they want the views. It's a win-win situation for both sides, if done correctly.

This is not in any way about the front page or anything other than the forum in itself - you have people posting content, and this will encourage discussion, especially if later down the road we can manage some Org contests with the people who create this content.

You can argue that we're bringing people who are interested only for our views - not so. In order for them to have a following that allows them to get the views they want, they themselves have to encourage discussion. It's complex, but it's workable.

And what type of content? Any type that showcases TW. Videos, let's play's, photographs/screenshots, walkthroughs, AARs... anything goes.

Rehashing old ideas just to see if they work again is not the way this time. Clearly not.

We need freshness. Fresh ideas, fresh discussions, fresh content... and think of it this way. We have the future historical TW game coming out in the future. 6-9 months until the announcement. At most 16 months until release. But the hype will be big - that as much will be given that the latest TW title is of the fantasy type. So expect a lot of engagement and buzz around it. Making sure we invite people around here and showing them that we have discussions worth participating in is the way forward, and this also includes discussions around the content offered on the website.

[Axalon]

Maybe I am simply used to it - but I still think the arrangement at TWC works where the game version is the top forum with the direct child forums being general discussion, mod projects and mod workshops. (two clicks to mod questions ) If highlighting of active mods is desired then putting a simple divider (finger pointing to the forum manager in vbulletin) in the forum's mod list should not present a problem, similar to what we have by way of 'mods under development' in the same forum as 'released mods'. Which means instead of sitting alone next to strange skyscrapers you sit at the top of your peers' list. (Insert nag: don't forget that alphabetical sorting)

Gigs, what can I tell you…

I have been saying essentially the same or similar things since May 2012. It would be a natural and sensible thing to do, having some rational sub-sections per each game, to increase coverage and access to that game and what happening in relation to that game on the site. TWC is an obvious example that such stuff does work and function just fine, and it is a clearly better way to deal with the games, regardless of which. But none of this supposedly apply to the Org. Instead, people here refuse to recognize that, and when all other arguments failed them, the last and prevailing reason for not doing it was - it creates “a too long" and "non-user-friendly index”! The scrolling would be at unacceptable levels, supposedly. We can’t have that and so the “solution” was to create roughly the index we now have. That’s Org-logics for you, in full glory…

Personally, I think one must have the mind-set of a complete idiot in order to actually fail to see that the index-length is (and always will be) secondary to the purpose of any site. The index is a tool to serve the site. But at the Org, this apparently don’t apply and instead the index and no-scrolling doctrine are more important then the actual purpose of the site. Its fubar all over, as far as I am concerned. By the looks of it, in this vote, we are heading to some half-assery on general TW-coverage. It will be better then the index what we got now, but its nowhere close to what you (and me) are talking about, or what this site in really needs to compete effectively, as I understand it.

Again, a short index will never do this place any favors, it never did thus far, and the current state of the site is the ultimate receipt of that fact, and none of this will somehow magically change in the future. Yet that is essentially what the majority here are still hoping and voting for…

- A

[Vincent Butler]

And what type of content? Any type that showcases TW. Videos, let's play's, photographs/screenshots, walkthroughs, AARs... anything goes.

So what exactly is meant by a Let's Play versus a video vs AARs versus walkthroughs? I guess a walkthrough could be like a tutorial, but what is a Let's Play or an AAR? As opposed to just a video.

[edyzmedieval]

So what exactly is meant by a Let's Play versus a video vs AARs versus walkthroughs? I guess a walkthrough could be like a tutorial, but what is a Let's Play or an AAR? As opposed to just a video.

Walkthrough - a gamer explains you the ins and outs of the game, the whole story or just tips to play better on a specific level. (see the Assassin's Creed gameplay walkthroughs)

Let's Play - a gamer actively shows the game, this is usually done on MP games, and you can also invite your friends to play along (look at Jackfrags and LevelCap)

AAR - Written form of gameplay, along with a showcase of writing talent and added fiction story

Videos - showcasing either gameplay or specific aspects of the game

[Axalon]

In 2012, i was discussing content and content-branch maybe there will be something interesting in what I said back then even today... You decide...

I’ll be plain. The job of the members here is to generate and contribute content somehow on this site, yours – the content branch - is to see to it that this content gets recognized and receives proper coverage/promotion at various levels so more people get to know about it. That is what you and your branch are supposed to do. That is what this site needs. That is what actually matters here, or so I believe.

Content is material of any kind that can be used seriously by any third party somehow. That is content. That is the stuff that has some sort of value attached to it somehow. Chatter and jokes are not content because it can not be seriously used by any third party. This site is supposed to have a TW-focus. Thus TW-related content take priority. That is what needs promotion, coverage and recognition. That is what you should be focusing on. To do this task properly and seriously, you need manpower. Get that manpower. Once you have that manpower, you assign at least 1 content-branch operative to each and every TW-section – as to ensure that each section is properly covered no matter what, and this constantly and visibly. No TW-section takes priority over another, because this site can not afford such luxuries in order to be competitive (I have already explained why in previous posts).

...

The reality I see is that your branch have already had a fair chance of doing things “your way”, people here have had their chance to get spontaneous like crazy and properly recognize and support stuff posted on this site. This for over a year. It has not happened. Neither has the full functionality of your branch. You still don’t have the manpower you need to cover all TW-sections which strikes me as a priority.... Now, explain to me why it is still warranted somehow continue the current doctrine and practices by content branch? Or why we can somehow still afford to sit and wait for some unlikely and unreliable spontaneity?

To me it is obvious. The content branch must start acting like the failsafe it is supposed to be and get real. As in step in and do the job that needs to be done in order for this site to get a chance of a revival somehow. That means that everything that deserves recognition and coverage gets it – this regardless of how apathetic and incapable members here might be. This means that the people that actually do generate interesting and noteworthy content somehow get recognition and appreciation so they have at least some reason to do it all over again – here. Once your branch is fully operational and each and every TW-section is properly covered at all times you can start worrying about all secondary things. That includes stuff like emancipation etc. Creating new trends and traditions on the board that serves and works beneficially for all – instead of the all too usual apathy. To encourage and support members to do this stuff on their own without direct involvement from staff etc. etc. etc. Because I think you are right in that part at least, emancipation is indeed desirable and it is a worthy goal to strive for here. However, we are not there, we are not even close to that, and we don’t have a strong enough community to even hope for any of that – let alone rely on that. Thus your branch must act decisively and lead by example as to show people how it is supposed to be and what people here should do, and where. In the meantime, the machinery of recognizing and promoting content on the boards must still happen anyways and that is the job of content-branch, a failsafe to kick in whenever and wherever the membership fails. This constantly, seriously and visibly on all TW-sections…

...

Lastly, the front page alone is not enough to do the job, or so I believe. I think we need more places, ways and channels to promote and recognize content somehow on this site. I don’t have any exact suggestions but I think that every TW-section should have its own lesser counterpart to that somehow – which deals exclusively with stuff related to that section. As sort of “note-board” to put up “local” section-notes and -news of interest for that community – a place where members can put up their own notes as well. Basically, something other and additional to the existing front-page.

- A

[Monk]

Gah... that's my point - all the "content" such as Gahzette and contests has been tried. It didn't make a jot of difference and the people involved just burnt out. Do you simply intend to repeat the same process all over again?

You can't build traffic and interest out of something that volatile. Any effort where a few designated people fuss about doing all the legwork to generate "content" is doomed to failure - sorry but it's been tried and it failed.

One of the reasons it failed was because staff and members were posting in here (or in the private staff forum) about running a board and generating 'content' and designing new themes to increase traffic, instead of posting in the main forum about the games, which this site is supposed to be about.

I have a feeling i knew you under a different name, in a different time, because you're spot on. Thank you for continuing to contribute to this discussion. I am pretty much in full agreement with you, ghost.

The .org simply needs to go back to it's roots, it doesn't need to have people running it as a hobby website and trying to put it on the map. .org will be niche and low traffic because that's what it is.

Be the traffic and the activity and the "content" will appear naturally...

This is not about the front page, or any other page apart from the forum in itself. The detail where the content is going to come from - we have members who offered themselves to provide content, just above, in this thread. And that's just one example. We still have TW players - myself included, who can provide content. There's hundreds of YouTubers who only require an invitation to come here and post their videos and encourage discussion, alongside them becoming members and actively participating. Why would they do that? Free promotion. We have members, we have guests, we have lurkers - we can provide the views they need. We want their content, they want the views. It's a win-win situation for both sides, if done correctly.

i think you are severely overestimating this site's digital footprint.

[ghostofxmaspast]

This is not about the front page, or any other page apart from the forum in itself.

Really, I thought this thread was about "org promotion"?

There's hundreds of YouTubers

Who are on youtube and can post on youtube, or if they follow the latest games, can even go to the TWC which has the highest traffic. You're suggesting yet another desperate attempt to capture a market which already has a well established venue. TWC is not a new forum any more, for many players it's a well established site with a rich history. It all started with RTW and for many TW players that's where it all started anyway...

The .org won't succeed in competition it needs to offer something different - and especially something to those have supported it for 15+ years - not just another clone of popular sites.

If that has to be radical, 'elitist', quirky or just different then so be it. If the .org has to hang a sign over the door which says "this might not be for you", then so be it.

I have a feeling i knew you under a different name, in a different time, because you're spot on. Thank you for continuing to contribute to this discussion. I am pretty much in full agreement with you, ghost.

Thanks, it's a refreshing change to be able to post an opinion here without being regarded with suspicion / as a troll.

[edyzmedieval]

Really, I thought this thread was about "org promotion"?

It is about Org Promotion...? The front page is the front page, there's not much to do with that unless it suffers a total redesign. I'm talking about the forum here. We're promoting the forum, the Org forum, hence Org Promotion.

Who are on youtube and can post on youtube, or if they follow the latest games, can even go to the TWC which has the highest traffic. You're suggesting yet another desperate attempt to capture a market which already has a well established venue. TWC is not a new forum any more, for many players it's a well established site with a rich history. It all started with RTW and for many TW players that's where it all started anyway...

Posting videos on YouTube won't magically garner views for you as a content producer. Those viewers have to come from somwhere, correct?

The .org won't succeed in competition it needs to offer something different - and especially something to those have supported it for 15+ years - not just another clone of popular sites.

Never a clone, this is the Org we're talking about. I'm proposing different avenues to explore, different ideas, coming up with suggestions to get back the traffic to at least good levels (not like 2005 - 2006, that will be quite hard to do).

Thanks, it's a refreshing change to be able to post an opinion here without being regarded with suspicion / as a troll.

All suggestions welcome Ghost, no suspicion or trolling.

[ghostofxmaspast]

It is about Org Promotion...? The front page is the front page, there's not much to do with that unless it suffers a total redesign. I'm talking about the forum here. We're promoting the forum, the Org forum, hence Org Promotion.

I mentioned getting rid of the front page and having forums.totalwar.org redirect to the index, your response was "this is not about the front page".

Posting videos on YouTube won't magically garner views for you as a content producer. Those viewers have to come from somwhere, correct?

I was under the impression that search engines or just searching youtube would find such 'content'? I'm failing to see how relevant total war videos on youtube are however? If someone wants to post their video, they do that, either at .com the .org or TWC. I doubt they see themselves as "content producers"...

Never a clone, this is the Org we're talking about. I'm proposing different avenues to explore, different ideas, coming up with suggestions to get back the traffic to at least good levels (not like 2005 - 2006, that will be quite hard to do).

Unfortunately so far as I can tell, you have no ideas except that people need to produce 'content' and that will increase traffic. Sounds familiar...

Sorry to be blunt, but your posts just come across as empty "business speak".

[edyzmedieval]

I mentioned getting rid of the front page and having forums.totalwar.org redirect to the index, your response was "this is not about the front page".

Org never used the front page like other websites did. We have the front page to occasionally promote articles, different events and similar contests but other than that, it was not used like let's say TWC did to constantly promote mods and articles and other things. So the front page in the whole scheme of TW Org is not really that important.

Getting rid of it would probably suffice and do good - I'm neutral on this aspect.

I was under the impression that search engines or just searching youtube would find such 'content'? I'm failing to see how relevant total war videos on youtube are however? If someone wants to post their video, they do that, either at .com the .org or TWC. I doubt they see themselves as "content producers"...

Yes, and no. Yes, search engines and searching would bring you the content. No - that is not enough. There's hundreds of YouTube videos on popular games, and you'd be surprised to see some quality gameplay videos or walkthroughs that have under 1000 views.

Unfortunately so far as I can tell, you have no ideas except that people need to produce 'content' and that will increase traffic. Sounds familiar...

They don't need to. They already do. It's already there. And people produce content anyhow.

And that doesn't magically increase traffic just because it's there.

I'm trying to explain here that getting more members, after this restructuring is done, would require the Org to have discussions. Getting them to sign up will happen only if people see that we are active. It's a snowball effect. The more active this place is, the more members you get. And those discussions are on TW games, on off topics, on modding, on everything that has a subforum and place in this whole TW Org website. Getting people to stay engaged is to make sure the discussions are active, stimulating and interesting pretty much. One of the ideas - one, not the whole thing, just one - would be to have more discussions on content produced by either Orgahs or people from outside.

[ghostofxmaspast]

Org never used the front page like other websites did. We have the front page to occasionally promote articles, different events and similar contests but other than that, it was not used like let's say TWC did to constantly promote mods and articles and other things. So the front page in the whole scheme of TW Org is not really that important.

It's important if it exists, it's the first page users see and if it's out of date.

As for the rest you seem to be stating that we need activity to get more activity? I think most have worked that out already.

I accept that I'm not offering a solution to low traffic, but neither are you.

Talk is still just talk.

//edit: -

Threads like this stimulate debate and discussion:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...p?152117-Craig

Closing them, slowly but surely kills the forums off. Excessive moderator intervention damages any forum - pre-emptive moderation because someone was slightly negative goes way overboard and drives people away.

Criticise CA or fawn all over them - it's irrelevant, This medium is obsolete in the eyes of the industry and social networking groups are a better medium for promoting their products.

[edyzmedieval]

You need activity for more activity. But that's not the point I'm making.

Members have called out for a reform of the forum structure. We're working on it - the question on forum structure is a way forward. That's a solution. It's the first step forward.

What's next? Floating ideas. I came up with dozens of ideas. Axalon himself has come up with ideas apart from his forum structure reform. Other posters as well. Float ideas, discuss them, develop them... this is the way forward.

And until you find an idea that works and it's applicable with ease, you discuss. Because no one came up with a perfect idea from the start.

[edyzmedieval]

A little gimmick idea I posted around 5 years ago, maybe it's still applicable. Just floating this out.

A War Room, official forums style - that way when you check the people's profile they can see what games you play (obviously TW games but which ones) and what achievements/stats you have (this should be optional and NOT linked to your Steam account like on the official forum, it's up to everyone if they want to include it)

[Vincent Butler]

I was just noticing, out of all forums (fora?) there are by far the most people on the RTW forum.

I tried the Windows 10 Game DVR out, but after a minute or two it really starts lagging. This is for an old game (Secret Service), same thing happened with Rome.

[edyzmedieval]

Not entirely surprising - Rome really propelled TW into the limelight, it's probably the most popular game throughout the whole series.

[edyzmedieval]

All right - now that we have the forum structure more or less settled, with a better looking index and clearer for everyone...

...what other options can we implement in order to make this place more inviting for both newer and older patrons?

[Axalon]

... What's next? Floating ideas. I came up with dozens of ideas. Axalon himself has come up with ideas apart from his forum structure reform. Other posters as well. Float ideas, discuss them, develop them... this is the way forward. And until you find an idea that works and it's applicable with ease, you discuss. Because no one came up with a perfect idea from the start.

There is plenty of truth to this stuff...

Also, sliding back to old habits, and clearly not making an effort (of any kind) here - as to improve site - will obviously not generate much results or improvements... So, how about people/members here - who are supposedly interested in all this - actually start acting like it? Like, you posting some idea, or commenting on the stuff already forwarded here (that will work too). It sure beats posting nothing, and doing zilch. As is essentialy what you guys have been doing now, for over a month, save Edyz here.

Just saying...

- A

[edyzmedieval]

Ax, you are kindly invited to come up with further ideas as well.

That being said - I noticed an uptick in Org traffic, plus our active member count has upped slightly. Which means that perhaps some changes have already had an effect.

[Vincent Butler]

The Entrance Hall has had several new members posting, so it would be interesting to see what brought them here. Whatever it is, it is good to see.

[edyzmedieval]

Perhaps we can do an ORG Christmas Special? Let's say - a gathering on Steam to chat and to MP play some games?

[edyzmedieval]

Floating another teenie tiny idea... Maybe we can rename the subforas back to the old, well known names? Such as Main Hall?

[drone]

Floating another teenie tiny idea... Maybe we can rename the subforas back to the old, well known names? Such as Main Hall?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[edyzmedieval]

Slightly bumping this again to get some attention.

Main Hall

Sword Dojo

Tea House

And we can just have them as: Main Hall - Medieval TW / Sword Dojo - Shogun TW

[edyzmedieval]

Soo... bump bump, yay or nay to the proposal above-ay?

[ReluctantSamurai]

Like it

[edyzmedieval]

Floating different ideas because I want to see the community reaction until we do/decide changes. Community first as always.

[edyzmedieval]

Coming back to this - a bit of a community asking - any community members around here actively posting TW related content?

YouTube, blogs, AARs...

[AntiDamascus]

I just bought the Warhammer today and downloaded but it.

But you know, I'm not modding it so *shrugs*

[edyzmedieval]

I just bought the Warhammer today and downloaded but it.

But you know, I'm not modding it so *shrugs*

No need, just post videos about gameplay