Pokemon Nuzlocke FireRed Mafia [Concluded]

[Csargo]

Is simply trusting you more than others really so strange at this point?

I question everything at this point. Why do I deserve to be trusted over others?

[SeveringViper]

I've had a busy day at work so I haven't thought about this game, but I guess everyone's been sleeping anyway.

Viper, there's no need to get upset at my questioning. I don't see the downside in questioning you for explanations rather than making my own assumptions, and I thought you subscribed to the same philosophy given your day one comments.

It's not about questioning, but how bad that question is. Or are you going to say throwing out blatantly ill-formed questions is investigation?

I question everything at this point. Why do I deserve to be trusted over others?

Okay, good. Because others have given me reason to be unsure of them at best?

[Logic]

Also
Vote: Logic

Very well, I still do not see why I should not vote: Jabbz again.

May I ask you to clarify on this, old chum?

Is everyone else actually afraid of placing votes? Champ opens up with a vote on me almost an hour and a half after the day opens, and then El Barto places only the second vote of the day only about 20 minutes later. And from then, no one has placed a vote?

Since I may not be online but once more today, I'll give my perceptions of everyone.

• I still think Champ is the most likely wolf. I will Vote: Champ until someone more wolfy comes along.
• My opinion of GH has softened a bit. I'm only giving him a soft wolf lean.
• Csargo sounds like his play-style is similar to mine. Hard to read. Giving him a soft village lean for now.
• Manasi seems a good villager
• El Barto is a null. Poisoning Manasi was weird, and then alluding to it without outright saying it could have gone better. But otherwise, he looks more town than wolf.
• I'm going to echo what others have already said about SeveringViper: lots of posts on D1, and rather quiet afterwards. I'm used to seeing the opposite from wolves, but I don't know if that is true around here.
• Zack subbed in for Choxorn, who I never really saw as a wolf in the first place. And Zack feels very town.
• Novice I keep seeing his posts and mentally attributing them to SeveringViper on first glance. Going to have to call him a slight wolf lean.
• Jabbz for some reason has been defending me more often than others. I could be misremembering, but I think he has had more positive things to say about me than anyone else thus far.
• Like GH, I keep going back and forth about Monty. I can't tell if he is walking a tightrope as a wolf, or a villager trying to look like a wolf, or I am just really bad at reading him.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Catching up on the stuff I missed from D3, here's a couple of quick hits:

---

My Jabbz case was one of him monitoring the thread (as evidenced by his thanking the one post by Zack I think?) but him not actually saying anything, meaning that he was fine coasting with a (what appeared at the time to be) lopsided lynch of a known townie (myself). His defense of having RL obligations that weekend doesn't really do much for me and it's a case of deflection since it doesn't address the core issue of there being evidence of him being present but not active.

---

The difference between my EOD behavior for D2 and D3 was that in D2, I had fully caught up to the thread with like 2 minutes ago and made a snap decision. In D3 I had only read about the most recent page and had missed quite a bit of time's worth of material, which is why I was more cautious with the vote.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

D4 business, my most pressing concerns:

It appears that Monty is still continually refusing to view anyone aside from Barto and myself through the "possible scum" lens. This is bad in and of itself, but I want something more concrete from you: You've been arguing with Zack fairly consistently ever since he entered the game but have not, from what I've read, actually given a concrete read on him. So: what is your read on Zack, and why is it what it is? Surely you've had enough interactions with him at this point to form an opinion on him.

Logic, some of your conclusions in 1113 are awkward. The Jabbz thing especially. Do you consider his defense of you to be townie or scummy? If it's neither, what's your actual read on him and why is it that way? Why has your opinion of me softened?

[novice]

Day one Tally as of post 436:

Lynch votes
6 votes: seireikhaan (Csargo, GeneralHankerchief, novice, Cuthillius, Choxorn, Raith Kemmler)
4 votes: Montmorency (autolycus, BSmith, Logic, SeveringViper)
3 votes: choxorn (Manasi, seireikhaan, Jabbz)
2 votes: GeneralHankerchief (El Barto, Sooh)
1 votes: Manasi (Champ)
1 votes: Severing Viper (Montmorency)

Voting history:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Sooh

Raith Kemmler

Raith Kemmler

Novice

GeneralHankerchief

seireikhaan

novice

Novice

Montmorency

Manasi

novice

GeneralHankerchief

GeneralHankerchief

Unvote

Unvote

Severing Viper

seireikhaan

Montmorency

seireikhaan

Jabbz

Montmorency

GeneralHankerchief

Champ

choxorn

Montmorency

choxorn

Manasi

seireikhaan

choxorn

choxorn

seireikhaan

choxorn

Montmorency

seireikhaan

Day two Tally as of post 724:

Lynch votes
5 votes: Raith Kemmler (Sooh, Montmorency, Logic, Manasi, GeneralHankerchief)
4 votes: choxorn (Csargo, novice, El Barto, SeveringViper)
1 votes: Montmorency (autolycus)
1 votes: El Barto (BSmith)

Voting history:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

GeneralHankerchief

Raith Kemmler

Montmorency

Montmorency

Montmorency

choxorn

choxorn

Montmorency

Autolycus

Champ

choxorn

Raith Kemmler

El Barto

El Barto

Raith Kemmler

Raith Kemmler

choxorn

choxorn

Raith Kemmler

Day three Tally as of post 1048:

Lynch votes
3 votes: Autolycus (Csargo, SeveringViper, Montmorency)
3 votes: Montmorency (Zack, novice, Jabbz)
2 votes: Jabbz (El Barto, GeneralHankerchief)
1 votes: GeneralHankerchief (Logic)
1 votes: Champ (BSmith)
1 votes: Bsmith (autolycus)
1 votes: Logic (Champ)

Voting history:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

GeneralHankerchief

GeneralHankerchief

GeneralHankerchief

Champ

GeneralHankerchief

Autolycus

Zack

Montmorency

Champ

GeneralHankerchief

Jabbz

Jabbz

Bsmith

Champ

Montmorency

Logic

Novice

Logic

Autolycus

Montmorency

Autolycus

Autolycus

[novice]

Tally as of post 1115:

Lynch votes
1 votes: Logic (Champ)
1 votes: Jabbz (El Barto)

Voting history:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Logic

Jabbz

[Zack]

Tally as of post 1115:

Lynch votes
1 votes: Logic (Champ)
1 votes: Jabbz (El Barto)

Voting history:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[novice]

• I still think Champ is the most likely wolf. I will Vote: Champ until someone more wolfy comes along.

People keep finding new ways to dodge my vote counter, such as sticking the vote in a bullet list.

[Montmorency]

It appears that Monty is still continually refusing to view anyone aside from Barto and myself through the "possible scum" lens. This is bad in and of itself, but I want something more concrete from you: You've been arguing with Zack fairly consistently ever since he entered the game but have not, from what I've read, actually given a concrete read on him. So: what is your read on Zack, and why is it what it is? Surely you've had enough interactions with him at this point to form an opinion on him.

I have 20% of the players as scum and am willing to lynch one other (Champ). I feel that I'm doing as well as anyone could hope. GH-Barto-Champ is a viable team and there is no reason for me not to push it for the sake of satisfying someone's demands for 'equal treatment' or 'investigating all avenues' (especially if those making the demands happen to be my suspects).

My Choxorn read was light town, and it's continued with Zack. Obviously the way he dug into me yesterday, he can do as either alignment, so that hasn't budged my read. If he continues to coast, I may take a harder line. If we lynch at least one scum and he gets mad at "tinfoilers", then we've probably caught him.

[Montmorency]

Do you mean that to be unreadable?

[Zack]

If he continues to coast

[novice]

It says "This wagon formation always lynches a wolf".

[Zack]

@Manasi

here's an email notification since you seemingly forgot about the game

[novice]

If we lynch at least one scum and he gets mad at "tinfoilers", then we've probably caught him.

I'm starting to tinfoil on him already, personally. Trying to figure out how day two played out if Choxorn/Zack is scum though.

[Logic]

D4 business, my most pressing concerns:

It appears that Monty is still continually refusing to view anyone aside from Barto and myself through the "possible scum" lens. This is bad in and of itself, but I want something more concrete from you: You've been arguing with Zack fairly consistently ever since he entered the game but have not, from what I've read, actually given a concrete read on him. So: what is your read on Zack, and why is it what it is? Surely you've had enough interactions with him at this point to form an opinion on him.

Logic, some of your conclusions in 1113 are awkward. The Jabbz thing especially. Do you consider his defense of you to be townie or scummy? If it's neither, what's your actual read on him and why is it that way? Why has your opinion of me softened?

I'll spell out my case against each well before EOD.

People keep finding new ways to dodge my vote counter, such as sticking the vote in a bullet list.

I'm sorry to have inconvienced you. I am not sorry at how funny this is.

[Montmorency]

I'm starting to tinfoil on him already, personally. Trying to figure out how day two played out if Choxorn/Zack is scum though.

Sure, let's try it out.

If Choxorn was scum:

It could be that Logic or Manasi was already on the Raith wagon, and GH held out on the Choxorn wagon (his partner's) till the last minute in hope of some townie doing the work for him. When that failed to materialize, he deployed his end-run.

We know that it couldn't have been an off-wagon voter, since BSmith and auto have flipped town. However, there were two non-voters that day: Jabbz and Champ. In that case, inactivity could have hampered Mafia efforts to save Choxorn, and GH's vote could be either a very lucky coincidence or a desperate move by a partner.

I do think lynching Champ or GH today will shed most light on D2's events, with best opportunity to chain cleared townies in the future.

[Montmorency]

double

[Zack]

I'm starting to tinfoil on him already, personally. Trying to figure out how day two played out if Choxorn/Zack is scum though.

What have I done that is wolfy?

[GeneralHankerchief]

Okay, now I know Monty isn't reading my posts.

[Logic]

RE: Jabbz

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

This post makes me strongly suspect logic is vanilla town, based on the phrasing of my role pm.

I stand by my statement about logic. I find it unlikely that scum would make the connection I did to his post or would have come up with his post in the first place. Combined with a lack of negative feels from him so far this game, I feel safe putting him 98% town.

Doing my best but I overestimated the amount of time I had free, especially with this being memorial day weekend. Spent the morning with a VFW group putting flags on vet graves. Good times I know.

All I can say at the moment is that I find the voting on GHC to be odd, people make mistakes and day 1 is almost guaranteed for those. His defense does ruffle my senses a bit, he seems to be trying far to hard to be dismissive rather than actually defend himself, but then again his current travel situation could definitely justify that. I do however find his making my absence somehow a personal focus on him, rather that me just being busy. That really makes me feel like he's going after low hanging fruit.

I still stand by thinking that Logic is town for my aforementioned reasons.

I'm liking Severing more now than I did before, mostly because I thought he was Zack in hiding, now that is clearly not the case I find my reads to be substantially different likely because they were tinged by how they sounded compared to what I expected.

Zack is null, and I didn't view choxorn's case as overly substantial. My vote on Zack was purely a joke, anyone who knows about our past interaction wouldn't view that oddly I don't think.

Most of the rest I quite frankly haven't put enough time into. I would honestly be down to lynch GHC, but I feel that it is too possible the only reason he is coming across wrong is because he simply doesn't have the time to devote, so I'd be more inclined to want to see him be on the list tomorrow when he can defend himself.

I feel somewhat hypocritical supporting lynching a lurker, but in my defense I am contributing more than a few of the others, and I think that's the direction I'd head, supporting a group consensus on the matter as long as said consensus isn't myself.

I have logic as basically confirmed town, so I would love to hear what you have to say that would confirm him as wolf instead. That way I can decide whether you are just using poor arguments, or are being shifty AF.

Why Logic?



Why me?

Specifics please from both, if that isn't too much to ask.

He has used "logic" 5 times, and in 4 of those, he is making a case for me being town, and the remaining instance is asking Champ why he thinks I am lock wolf. Not that I don't appreciate the assessment, but I can't help but feel that his case isn't strong enough. I know I'm town, but he is making leaps that don't completely add up.

As for you, I have a shortlist of suspects that used the antidote that cured Manasi's poison condition, and you are on it.

[Manasi]

Why Logic?



Why me?

Specifics please from both, if that isn't too much to ask.

Think this is a villager. Why would he care otherwise idk

This is a first for me, pretty exciting.

auto was a bad call yesterday rip, should of voted elsewhere. feelsbadman.

Seems kinda feigned. :fry: etc

Do you mean that to be unreadable?

Lol'd.

Hi I'm here.

[Manasi]

Why?

Why Logic?



Why me?

Specifics please from both, if that isn't too much to ask.

This is a first for me, pretty exciting.

auto was a bad call yesterday rip, should of voted elsewhere. feelsbadman.

@Manasi

here's an email notification since you seemingly forgot about the game

Lol you think I turned email notifications on yet

I'm here tho

Had to say bai to the familia

[Manasi]

MULTIQUOTE PLEASE I'M SO SORRY FRIENDS

[Montmorency]

Okay, now I know Monty isn't reading my posts.

Please, you haven't said much since D1 other than to suss Jabbz, Barto, and Choxorn, and to defend yourself from me.

I've read all of your posts, and I gave your latest question a precise answer.

Was there something else you had in mind?

As for you, I have a shortlist of suspects that used the antidote that cured Manasi's poison condition, and you are on it.

I did not see you going there. Can you say more about these antidote hypotheses?

[Manasi]

As for you, I have a shortlist of suspects that used the antidote that cured Manasi's poison condition, and you are on it.

why they gotta be a suspect

they donated to a 10/10 cause

[GeneralHankerchief]

Please, you haven't said much since D1 other than to suss Jabbz, Barto, and Choxorn, and to defend yourself from me.

I've read all of your posts, and I gave your latest question a precise answer.

Was there something else you had in mind?

Okay, then you're purposely not bothering to read into them other than jam them into the reality you either desperately want to be true or you desperately want other people to believe they're true (still not sure which yet), which is quite possibly even worse.

I've made it clear on numerous occasions that I would have very low participation from Thursday afternoon to Monday night, inclusive. I mentioned it in the sign-up thread. Pizza clarified it and okay'd it. I mentioned it here. I mentioned it offsite. EOD2 was Thursday evening, 6 eastern to be exact. I mentioned twice that I was driving during that time and was stopping for a quick bite to eat and caught up with the thread. I read the posts, fully caught up with 2 minutes to go, and made a decision to go with Raith. I stuck around longer at that rest stop than I should have to see the flip, saw it, and then resumed driving.

Yet you're ascribing all of these motives like it was a predetermined play on my part or me executing Plan Omega as a last resort to save a partner or something. It's an intentional cognitive dissonance on your part and you seem to be unable to reconcile the reality of my RL situation at the time to your predetermined vision of events, and I'm starting to believe it's intentional on your part.

[Zack]

I should probably re-read some to confirm, but at the moment I think Viper and Monty are wolf partners. Maybe Csargo. When someone like Monty keeps getting votes but dodging the lynch, it usually means they're a wolf being saved or they're a villager being saved by wolves as a mislynch to keep in their back pocket.

But I think Viper and Monty are both individually wolfy for reasons I've talked about, and off the top of my head they make a lot of sense as partners (like I said, haven't re-read to confirm this).

[Zack]

He claimed 1-shot roleblocker who's used his shot.
You counterclaimed that...

This is something that bugs me, too. How do you just forget you counterclaimed someone like that?

[Montmorency]

Yet you're ascribing all of these motives like it was a predetermined play on my part or me executing Plan Omega as a last resort to save a partner or something.

When did I do that? You mean where I answered novice wrt Zack?

I was just giving the range of possibilities in a scenario where Choxorn was scum in the D2 wagons. That wasn't a case against you. Who did you say wasn't reading carefully?

Do you have a response to my Post 1119 response to you, on this page?

When someone like Monty keeps getting votes but dodging the lynch, it usually means they're a wolf being saved or they're a villager being saved by wolves as a mislynch to keep in their back pocket.

Sounds plausible.

[novice]

When someone like Monty keeps getting votes but dodging the lynch, it usually means they're a wolf being saved or they're a villager being saved by wolves as a mislynch to keep in their back pocket.

So it's null?
Monty wasn't saved on day three.