Pokemon Nuzlocke FireRed Mafia [Concluded]

[novice]

I'm out for the day and expect to be killed tonight, so I'll leave a big post probably no one will care about once I'm dead.

----

My role is actually a little different than what I was claiming and hinting at. I'm not a standard roleblocker - instead I have 2x super roleblock (the target is blocked for three nights instead of just one).

choxorn never used an ability.

On N3, I used one on Monty. Didn't seem to be any interruption in nightkills, though considering Monty was under lot of heat, he probably wouldn't have been the one doing nightkills anyway unless his partners were in worse spots.

On N4, I used the other on Csargo. I know he's lying about blocking me because I received confirmation that Csargo was blocked last night and the subsequent two nights.

From Csargo and Monty's reactions, Monty seemed completely unaware that he was blocked at any point in time or that Csargo was blocked. Csargo's response to my softclaim made it clear that he was in fact the one whose nightkill was stopped. It was theoretically possible that Monty tried to do the kill for the wolves last night while he was still blocked and that's why it failed (though I don't know how likely that scenario is, depending on what Pizza tells the people targeted by my ability), but Csargo essentially confirmed that was not the case.

I have nothing left, I'm spent unfortunately.

----

Zack - Me. I'm town.

Csargo - Wolf. Blocked and no nightkill. Lied about roleblocking me last night. Lolcatting.

----

Novice - Very likely town. Active, prodding, top poster. He mentioned in Tokens, where he was a wolf, he was townread all game and survived to the end. I looked and saw he had less than a third as many posts in that game as he does here, so didn't bother looking into it further just for paranoid tinfoil.

Montmorency - Likely town. I think his reaction earlier today went past the point of performance art. I do have some pause for how Csargo and Monty have interacted all game, but I think Monty's just town.

GeneralHankerchief - Likely town. Spew looks good for him. Plus he looks town and I don't buy any of the arguments that have been used against him.

Champ - Lean town. He feels like a scapegoat. His posts are within his town range and I can see some of things that could indicate town mindset. It's all so absurdly low effort that I can't give any more confidence than this.

Logic - Null. Not sure how to feel about this slot. Some of his posts I've liked, some I haven't been so crazy about.

Manasi - POE. Don't like the pop in / pop out thing, it's something I've seen her do as a wolf - where she'll pop in to say hey what's up, then not really say anything and leave, repeat. She has not had the WIM she claimed.

El Barto - POE. This has been done to death. On re-read a lot of his posts rub me the wrong way. On actually looking into that one QT, claiming the poison seems in his wheelhouse. Don't forget what GH said about Barto bussing/distancing either, it's true - his thing with Jabbz is not clearing in any way.

Jabbz - POE. Kind of underwhelming all game (I don't want to hear about time constraints, this is a quality issue not quantity). He hasn't seemed overly concerned with hunting, and his GH push falls really flat. His treatment of Logic is bizarre, and being so confident about it with no paranoia is off. I think GH has made good points here.

----

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Thanks indeed for that, Zack. Very impressive sub-in.

I agree with your thoughts on Monty, I just don't see him reacting the way he did to the roleblocking claim as scum.

That leaves GH, Champ, Logic, Manasi, El Barto and Jabbz as scum candidates.

On GH - did anybody catch specifically what the spew Zack referred to that supposedly cleared GH was? I'm not ready to accept GH as town.
I still feel that Jabbz is town.
The rest I agree with, and specifically Champ feeling like a scapegoat was a minor mindmeld.

[novice]

Day 4 tally:

Lynch votes
6 votes: SeveringViper (Zack, Logic, Csargo, El Barto, Manasi,
GeneralHankerchief)
4 votes: El Barto (Jabbz, novice, Montmorency, SeveringViper)
1 votes: Logic (Champ)

Voting history:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Logic

Jabbz

SeveringViper

Zack

El Barto

El Barto

SeveringViper

El Barto

SeveringViper

SeveringViper

El Barto

Jabbz

SeveringViper

SeveringViper

SeveringViper

[novice]

Night actions:
N1: Unclaimed: Someone killed Cuthilius
N1: Claimed: Monty blocked GH
N1: Claimed: El Barto poisoned Manasi
N1, possible: Someone attacked SeveringViper
N2: Unclaimed: Someone healed Manasi?
N2: Unclaimed: Someone used Thunderbolt (ineffective)
N2: Unclaimed: Someone killed Sooh
N3: Unclaimed: Someone killed BSmith
N3: SeveringViper blocked Monty
N3: Zack blocked Monty (3 nights)
N4: Zack blocked Csargo (3 nights)
N4: Noone was killed
N5: Someone killed Zack


Day 1
6 votes: seireikhaan (Csargo, GeneralHankerchief, novice, Cuthillius, Choxorn, Raith Kemmler)
4 votes: Montmorency (autolycus, BSmith, Logic, SeveringViper)
3 votes: choxorn (Manasi, seireikhaan, Jabbz)
2 votes: GeneralHankerchief (El Barto, Sooh)
1 votes: Manasi (Champ)
1 votes: Severing Viper (Montmorency)

Day 2
5 votes: Raith Kemmler (Sooh, Montmorency, Logic, Manasi, GeneralHankerchief)
4 votes: choxorn (Csargo, novice, El Barto, SeveringViper)
1 votes: Montmorency (autolycus)
1 votes: El Barto (BSmith)


Day 3
3 votes: Autolycus (Csargo, SeveringViper, Montmorency)
3 votes: Montmorency (Zack, novice, Jabbz)
2 votes: Jabbz (El Barto, GeneralHankerchief)
1 votes: GeneralHankerchief (Logic)
1 votes: Champ (BSmith)
1 votes: Bsmith (autolycus)
1 votes: Logic (Champ)


Day 4
6 votes: SeveringViper (Zack, Logic, Csargo, El Barto, Manasi,
GeneralHankerchief)
4 votes: El Barto (Jabbz, novice, Montmorency, SeveringViper)
1 votes: Logic (Champ)


Day 5
7 votes: Csargo (Zack, GeneralHankerchief, El Barto, novice, Montmorency, Logic, Manasi)
1 votes: Zack (Csargo)
1 votes: Logic (Champ)
1 votes: El Barto (Jabbz)

[GeneralHankerchief]

Right now my POE is looking something like this:

Jabbz/El Barto (top is in flux right now) > Champ > Manasi > Logic

Champ is kind of the linchpin in all this. I think Jabbz flipping scum clears him for his willingness to jump on a Jabbz CFD I suggested a couple of rounds ago. Jabbz flipping town keeps Champ where he is. Furthermore, Champ is also tied to Logic - he's been going after the guy all game. If Champ flips mafia, I think Logic is cleared, though that's not as strong of a clear for me as Jabbz flipping scum would be because it's possible it might have been some kind of ploy. If Champ flips town, then I need to take a closer look at Logic.

One thing that looks fairly certain is that Champ and I both look like LYLO bait since we seem to be in the middle of the consensus POE. If that's the case, and if Jabbz flips scum, I'm snap-voting whoever the third person in the scenario is and calling it a day. Plan accordingly.

[Montmorency]

Right now my POE is looking something like this:

Jabbz/El Barto (top is in flux right now) > Champ > Manasi > Logic

Champ is kind of the linchpin in all this. I think Jabbz flipping scum clears him for his willingness to jump on a Jabbz CFD I suggested a couple of rounds ago. Jabbz flipping town keeps Champ where he is. Furthermore, Champ is also tied to Logic - he's been going after the guy all game. If Champ flips mafia, I think Logic is cleared, though that's not as strong of a clear for me as Jabbz flipping scum would be because it's possible it might have been some kind of ploy. If Champ flips town, then I need to take a closer look at Logic.

One thing that looks fairly certain is that Champ and I both look like LYLO bait since we seem to be in the middle of the consensus POE. If that's the case, and if Jabbz flips scum, I'm snap-voting whoever the third person in the scenario is and calling it a day. Plan accordingly.

What do you think of El Barto:

Flip scum, +town Jabbz Logic, -town Manasi Champ
Flip town, +town Manasi, -town Logic

[GeneralHankerchief]

What do you think of El Barto:

Flip scum, +town Jabbz Logic, -town Manasi Champ
Flip town, +town Manasi, -town Logic

I haven't done enough reading into El Barto to really answer that right now, but on first glance that looks about right.

[Champ]

what are the votes at now

[Champ]

nvm i found it

[Logic]

How I complied my Antidote list. Those that had Manasi on their "likely town" lists, and those that were talking about the poisoning.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Post #475

How are things going with you, my good lady?

Post #480

Hi. I'm very tired. I've only slightly skimmed what's happened since the day has started. How are you? Have you had a good day? What'd you have for dinner?

Post #535 (formatted for space)

Oh nice. I was poisoned last night. I blame cuth. Someone halp.

Post #536

Scan for me, and I shall grant you the gift of life, and death to your enemies.

When Manasi wasn't dead the following day, Monty jumped to the very top of my antidote list after I read this post, despite asking for something that Manasi has already claimed she cannot provide. I still had Monty on my wolf-lean list, so I thought this was unlikely barring additional evidence.

Can you uh, Can you fix it plz

If I had such a capability I would consider it. However, as I have already stated, I have no abilities remaining.

El Barto appears to be feeling a tad bit guilty. If he does have an antidote, he is purposely misleading about his capability to heal. I give El Barto an outside chance that he did heal Manasi, even though he says here he can't.

For the record: El Barto alluding to the poisoning early today.

I'm noticing this just now, but I give Novice a slight scum lean if Barto turns out to be scum. I'll ISO novice later to see if this holds more weight.

No, no, my good sir; it is, quite more simply, that Manasi is scheduled to die at the end of Night Two, not Day one as she's claimed.
*SNIP*
I am glad that somebody noticed. Yes, I was trying to draw Manasi out.

My case against Champ

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I forgot this existed

This here was enough for El Barto to vote for Champ:

I'll tell you the story that I poisoned Manasi last night with a one-off ability. Now I am, for all intents and purposes, what the gaming populace knows as a ‘vanilla townie’. I find it extremely odd that Manasi did not immediately request for help.
*SNIP*
You leave me with no option but to Vote: Champ.

Is it wrong to village read novice for doing the post counts?

I'll just village read him

yes

Ok I'll make up a fake reason then

Champ looks very bad here, if you ask me. This adds another layer of my growing suspicion of Novice.

Day 1
6 votes: seireikhaan (Csargo, GeneralHankerchief, novice, Cuthillius, Choxorn, Raith Kemmler)
4 votes: Montmorency (autolycus, BSmith, Logic, SeveringViper)
3 votes: choxorn (Manasi, seireikhaan, Jabbz)
2 votes: GeneralHankerchief (El Barto, Sooh)
1 votes: Manasi (Champ)
1 votes: Severing Viper (Montmorency)

Day 2
5 votes: Raith Kemmler (Sooh, Montmorency, Logic, Manasi, GeneralHankerchief)
4 votes: choxorn (Csargo, novice, El Barto, SeveringViper)
1 votes: Montmorency (autolycus)
1 votes: El Barto (BSmith)


Day 3
3 votes: Autolycus (Csargo, SeveringViper, Montmorency)
3 votes: Montmorency (Zack, novice, Jabbz)
2 votes: Jabbz (El Barto, GeneralHankerchief)
1 votes: GeneralHankerchief (Logic)
1 votes: Champ (BSmith)
1 votes: Bsmith (autolycus)
1 votes: Logic (Champ)


Day 4
6 votes: SeveringViper (Zack, Logic, Csargo, El Barto, Manasi,
GeneralHankerchief)
4 votes: El Barto (Jabbz, novice, Montmorency, SeveringViper)
1 votes: Logic (Champ)


Day 5
7 votes: Csargo (Zack, GeneralHankerchief, El Barto, novice, Montmorency, Logic, Manasi)
1 votes: Zack (Csargo)
1 votes: Logic (Champ)
1 votes: El Barto (Jabbz)

And then, looking at the vote count, Champ has been tunneling me from D3, and from what I can tell, he did nothing on D2. His posts are sparse, and of little content. Either he's a very bad vanillager, or he's a wolf. I don't see an in-between.

But, the vote count also has me seriously call into question novice and GH.

Town Leans
Monty
Manasi
Null line
Jabbz
GeneralHankerchief
El Barto
Wolf line
Novice
Champ

I'm most comfortable Vote: Champ, but I am willing to consider others. Despite my earlier assessment of Monty, he looks to be the towniest remaining player.

[novice]

Logic, can you spell that out a bit more? Why does Champ look bad? Why am I scummy? What about the vote counts makes GH and me look bad?

[Logic]

Short version: Champ is super low activity, few posts of little content. Good way to hide. Calls novice town for the post counts, then is told that's a bad plan, then says he'll make up a reason to call you town.

Novice could be town, but if he were to flip scum, I'd almost bet the farm that Champ would flip scum as well.

[Logic]

Short version: Champ is super low activity, few posts of little content. Good way to hide. Calls novice town for the post counts, then is told that's a bad plan, then says he'll make up a reason to call you town.

Novice could be town, but if he were to flip scum, I'd almost bet the farm that Champ would flip scum as well.

Emphasis omitted

[Montmorency]

That's kind of underwhelming, Logic.

I've mentioned before that I didn't heal Manasi; indeed, as soon as she claimed death by EOD on D2 I said:

Ah well, in that case I have no use for you.

My sincere condolences to your loved ones.

Other speculation you have offered on identity or even existence of a healer is simply unsupported and can't be relied upon.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Logic, I'm more interested in why you have novice as your second strongest scumlean.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Logic, I'm more interested in why you have novice as your second strongest scumlean.

To elaborate, is your lean on him solely conditional on Champ's flip? Do you have anything independently scummy about him?

[Logic]

That's kind of underwhelming, Logic.

I've mentioned before that I didn't heal Manasi; indeed, as soon as she claimed death by EOD on D2 I said:


Other speculation you have offered on identity or even existence of a healer is simply unsupported and can't be relied upon.

Sorry, this game moves at a faster pace than I am used to, and I prefer to post my entire case at once. Because of the speed of this game, I am searching through more posts and missing quite a bit of evidence I am drawing my conclusions from.

I don't recall where my GH lean came from, but there was one post that made me think he was Manasi's benefactor.

Logic, I'm more interested in why you have novice as your second strongest scumlean.

Mostly because other than his vote tally updates, I'm not seeing anything of note from him. It feels like filler and parroting. His voting record also isn't the best.

That being said, I know I've done my fair share of parroting, but I think I've also put forth some things worth discussing at least.

If you guys want to put me on the chopping block for it, I'm fine fine with that. As a vanilla townie, I know I am expendable EXCEPT during LYLO. So if you are thinking I'm scum, you'd better do the deed today. I'll do my best to analyze more and give you as much information as I can glean if you thing I should hang instead of someone else.

[Montmorency]

Ultimately, we have to lynch Barto today, for his scumminess, and because it essentially locks Jabbz and novice town if he flips scum. They had him on the ropes for D4 lynch, after all, on top of other mutual shading or votes at various times.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Ultimately, we have to lynch Barto today, for his scumminess, and because it essentially locks Jabbz and novice town if he flips scum. They had him on the ropes for D4 lynch, after all, on top of other mutual shading or votes at various times.

I agree with the aftereffects that happen if Barto gets lynched, but I'd rather lynch somebody who I think is most likely to flip scum today, and that's Jabbz.

[Manasi]

I'm hooooooooooooooooooooooooome.

Will read up and post in an hour or so, need to get my life back together.

RIP Zaccino etc.

[Jabbz]

Emphasis omitted

My take on Champ is that he is just a lazy player or not all that into this game. I don't know him well enough to know which role would make him more engaged though.

[Jabbz]

I find myself in a weird position here. I really dislike the play El Barto has been conducting throughout this game. At the same time however I've spent the last 3 games trying to identify the vibe I'm getting from Monty, and I think I finally pinned it down. He reminds me of a slick used car salesman this game. Always trying to sell, using whatever works. I don't know if that makes me think he is scum, but it makes me think he isn't town, so perhaps a 3rd party, perhaps a 3rd party with a lynch goal.

I agree that barto is a good lynch. If he is town, I'm wrong, you will lynch me, and town will lose, but I'm fairly certain I'm not wrong. You can lynch me, and I'm not certain thats a bad thing. I'm town, but I'm an easy lylo lynch at this point, though I think not the only one. I think its likely we have two more scum, and all they have to do is get one other vote on me and it's likely over. Killing me now would provide some information I think, though not as much as I would hope because my play has not been stellar, but it still might provide the nudge needed to properly evaluate others. That being said, I still don't want to be lynched, as I know I'm town and that reduces our odds of winning.

As such I'm still down for barto.

Novice I'm feeling more townie. He's doing a lot of meta, but IIRC that tends to be his norm. I don't get the noviscum feel from him this game though.

GHC I don't know that I feel is scum anymore. An honest evaluation of my play shows I'm not doing all that hot, but he is still ignoring arguments I make, and cherry picking to defend his case which screams scum to me. I'm not able to articulate why I'm less bothered by his play than by Barto's, but I am.

Manasi I just don't know how to feel about. Her engagement is similar to what it was in the only other game I played with her, but there it was a faction game (the french one) so it doesn't provide a great standard to judge by. I don't get any direct scum vibes though, and some towny so yeah.

Logic. I dunno. I feel like logic should have gotten my reference at the beginning of this day. The fact that he didn't, when he laid out a partial case for it earlier in the game implies that he is either hiding the information, or somehow magically missed something he brought up days ago. Perhaps he gained an ability, or changed faction, I dunno. It is weird though.


All things considered: Vote: El Barto. Please remember that one of the votes on him is his own, and thus subject to last minute changing, so weigh the total vote carefully when you cast your own. Not sure if I'll be here in 40, but good luck to us.

[Jabbz]

Err just realized its only halfway through the day. Ignore that last sentence :P

[El Barto]

Right now Logic. If Jabbz' fixation on Logic is odd, Logic's secret antidote shortlist is more so.

Either way, I don't know what it would mean vis-a-vis Manasi and Champ.

Very well. (see below)

Few things, then:

Gyrados killing Zack was clearly a Mafia kill. I would say this was the first proper nightkill without basis in an earth or ground attack/Pokemon, but that's actually wrong as I'll mention below. Csargo flipped as Heracross, a Fighting Bug pokemon. It can have Rock/Ground moves in its repertoire, including Rock Blast/Slide and Earthquake. Plenty of Normal attacks, e.g. Strength.

Let's take a closer look at the (fatal) night attacks:

N1 - Unseen attacker kills Cuth/Oddish with Earthquake (?)
N2 - Very brief and generic writeup, unseen attacker kills Sooh/Diglett with "Strength", throwing a rock but not actually being a rock/ground attack; Strength is a very generic Normal attack that Onyx, Gyarados, or Heracross could all deploy
N3 - First attacking Pokemon identified, Onyx kills BSmith ( (critical hit but move unknown, could be rock throw per repetition within writeup)
N4 - Zack blocks Csargo, no kill, S.S. ticket spam
N5 - Gyarados identified, kills Zack/Paras with Earthquake (like D1?)

So N1-2 could have been anyone, including Csargo, including Gyarados. I think we should see the other two Mafia flip as Gyarados and Onyx. Caveat to mention is that Onyx was associated with Brock with the writeup, and if our enemy Pokemon are part of Team Gary, then we could be talking Gyarados and Charizard.

I think Barto scum reflects well on Jabbz and Logic, poorly on Manasi and Champ. Barto town reflects better on Manasi, worse on Logic.

Are you, with your self-vote?

I have said that I am willing to be lynched in order to clear the air.

What do you think of El Barto:

Flip scum, +town Jabbz Logic, -town Manasi Champ
Flip town, +town Manasi, -town Logic

I haven't done enough reading into El Barto to really answer that right now, but on first glance that looks about right.

So, since I am town, we agree to vote:Logic?

But meanwhile, Monty… if I were to be revealed as scum, that would be good for Jabbz and Logic. If I were to be revealed as town, that would be bad for Logic. What of Jabbz? Inversely, what of Champ?

[Montmorency]

I find myself in a weird position here. I really dislike the play El Barto has been conducting throughout this game. At the same time however I've spent the last 3 games trying to identify the vibe I'm getting from Monty, and I think I finally pinned it down. He reminds me of a slick used car salesman this game. Always trying to sell, using whatever works. I don't know if that makes me think he is scum, but it makes me think he isn't town, so perhaps a 3rd party, perhaps a 3rd party with a lynch goal.

Haven't I been more direct, forthcoming, and consistent than a used-car salesman? I don't think I've been flexible enough to use "whatever works" - I'm not in any alignment.

GH would already be lynched otherwise.

Third party has already flipped, and a balanced game would have two more Mafia - not one or two Mafia and one more non-killing third party.

Very well. (see below)



I have said that I am willing to be lynched in order to clear the air.

So, since I am town, we agree to vote:Logic?

But meanwhile, Monty… if I were to be revealed as scum, that would be good for Jabbz and Logic. If I were to be revealed as town, that would be bad for Logic. What of Jabbz? Inversely, what of Champ?

If you were town, there would be no impact on Jabbz. I have liked Jabbz as town since this post D3, and his EOD derp:

Doing my best but I overestimated the amount of time I had free, especially with this being memorial day weekend. Spent the morning with a VFW group putting flags on vet graves. Good times I know.

All I can say at the moment is that I find the voting on GHC to be odd, people make mistakes and day 1 is almost guaranteed for those. His defense does ruffle my senses a bit, he seems to be trying far to hard to be dismissive rather than actually defend himself, but then again his current travel situation could definitely justify that. I do however find his making my absence somehow a personal focus on him, rather that me just being busy. That really makes me feel like he's going after low hanging fruit.

I still stand by thinking that Logic is town for my aforementioned reasons.

I'm liking Severing more now than I did before, mostly because I thought he was Zack in hiding, now that is clearly not the case I find my reads to be substantially different likely because they were tinged by how they sounded compared to what I expected.

Zack is null, and I didn't view choxorn's case as overly substantial. My vote on Zack was purely a joke, anyone who knows about our past interaction wouldn't view that oddly I don't think.

Most of the rest I quite frankly haven't put enough time into. I would honestly be down to lynch GHC, but I feel that it is too possible the only reason he is coming across wrong is because he simply doesn't have the time to devote, so I'd be more inclined to want to see him be on the list tomorrow when he can defend himself.

I feel somewhat hypocritical supporting lynching a lurker, but in my defense I am contributing more than a few of the others, and I think that's the direction I'd head, supporting a group consensus on the matter as long as said consensus isn't myself.

There would also be no information toward Champ. I believe his play is difficult precisely because it makes it hard to tie him to interactions.

[Manasi]

I tried really hard to read everything I missed but can't bring myself to make a huge post about anything.

After that, I do think that Champ/GH/Novice are in my strong town that will probably not change for this phase at all, maybe even tomorrow.

I would like to know, however, if someone has more of an idea as to why Zack's read on Monty flipped from mafia to town. Something about his reaction to a claim? I could be paraphrasing someone else's post as well. I read everything but not sure how much I actually absorbed.

Not sure how I feel about a Logic lynch today at all.

Would much prefer Monty/Barto, but I'm willing to follow the dead in his flipped read if someone can help me understand it.

[El Barto]

Haven't I been more direct, forthcoming, and consistent than a used-car salesman? I don't think I've been flexible enough to use "whatever works" - I'm not in any alignment.

GH would already be lynched otherwise.

Third party has already flipped, and a balanced game would have two more Mafia - not one or two Mafia and one more non-killing third party.

The bolded sections are perplexing.

If you were town, there would be no impact on Jabbz. I have liked Jabbz as town since this post D3, and his EOD derp:



There would also be no information toward Champ. I believe his play is difficult precisely because it makes it hard to tie him to interactions.

The interactions of the current day leave me with the impression that Champ and Logic are of opposite alignments, in other words, one of them is an innocent and the other is a mafioso.

So, half of Jabbz's innocence is the one post and the rest is what is commonly known as a ‘derp-clear’? He also says

>If he is town, I'm wrong, you will lynch me, and town will lose, but I'm fairly certain I'm not wrong.

A statement with which I really am not quite comfortable. Why lay down the groundwork towards tomorrow's defence? It is almost as if he knew something we did not.

I tried really hard to read everything I missed but can't bring myself to make a huge post about anything.

After that, I do think that Champ/GH/Novice are in my strong town that will probably not change for this phase at all, maybe even tomorrow.

I would like to know, however, if someone has more of an idea as to why Zack's read on Monty flipped from mafia to town. Something about his reaction to a claim? I could be paraphrasing someone else's post as well. I read everything but not sure how much I actually absorbed.

Not sure how I feel about a Logic lynch today at all.

Would much prefer Monty/Barto, but I'm willing to follow the dead in his flipped read if someone can help me understand it.

If you do not care enough about the game to try and contribute, that is simply shameful. I feel no regret now towards having attempted your removal.

Leaving that aside, could you at least a) make up your mind on Logic and b) say why it's ‘Monty/Barto’, in your own words? Do notice that I am not promoting a counter-lynch on my former mafia partner.

[Champ]

Novice is never wolf

[Logic]

Novice is never wolf

This is an inherently unhelpful statement.

Previous games have no bearing in role assignment for this one. Furthermore, I doubt the veracity of your claim.

[Montmorency]

The bolded sections are perplexing.

I was suggesting that looking for additional third parties, especially non-killing third parties (unless you construct a fairly convoluted and unverifiable picture of night events), is the wrong idea for our circumstances when you can't otherwise peg someone as Mafia.

The interactions of the current day leave me with the impression that Champ and Logic are of opposite alignments, in other words, one of them is an innocent and the other is a mafioso.

So, half of Jabbz's innocence is the one post and the rest is what is commonly known as a ‘derp-clear’? He also says

>If he is town, I'm wrong, you will lynch me, and town will lose, but I'm fairly certain I'm not wrong.

A statement with which I really am not quite comfortable. Why lay down the groundwork towards tomorrow's defence? It is almost as if he knew something we did not.

Logic looking bad does not make Champ look good, but Logic looking good does make Champ look worse.

What are you referring to from Jabbz, this?

Oh and in case it was missed earlier, I am town and currently have no abilities, nor did I start with any or take any actions at night to this point, so losing me with my time constraints isn't exactly a huge loss to town.

He doesn't reference someone else's flip, so I assume that isn't it...

[novice]

I would like to know, however, if someone has more of an idea as to why Zack's read on Monty flipped from mafia to town. Something about his reaction to a claim? I could be paraphrasing someone else's post as well. I read everything but not sure how much I actually absorbed.

Zack implicitly claimed to have blocked Csargo's kill, and Monty just didn't get that that's what Zack was doing and kept questioning what Zack was doing. My feeling, and I think this was what Zack felt also, was that scum wouldn't act that way in that situation. They would understand what Zack's vote was about and they would be trying to distance themselves from Csargo. They would not be making Zack spoonfeed them his claim. In fact, read GH's reaction to see a likely scum reaction.