Sorceror 17er Game Thread

[hollowkatt]

Fwiw, I'm almost certainly vesting Dobby if we chop town today

if we're gonna do that we might as well chop me so that dobby has to make a different call. Otherwise we'll chop town today, you'll vest dobby, he'll blow me up, I'll flip town. Dobby might flip town idk, but we'll for sure be down 1x town we didn't need to be down.

[Dobby]

dobby's read on me also just feels like not v!dobby's read on me a bit

because sure i was like not super put together but it was also

i was definitely playing in the sort of approach range that would line up with how i'd wolf d1 in this sort of circumstance where i'm actively trying not to get super town-read but still being kinda intentional about engaging where i engage

This is also like, the only thing you've written about me this game (that I remember) isn't it

[katze]

#1149

I actually like this post. Bar the mild "Oh Cuth didn't die?" derptell which feels fake. But also wagon position on Ladd was probably good?

I kinda like Sleep's daystart in general.

#1171

I'm in confbias territory now but like, this post is a post I can see wolf!Newcomb making after not thinking Ladd was in danger at EOD and then the flashwagon on his partner appears.

-- I'm going to point out that it looks like Dolby entered today to try and pocket me.

#1205

As of this post I'm pretty sure Neb/NC are unpaired.

#1210

I'll actually have to check this after I'm done catching up. If Zack is right and Ladd really didn't defend Newc at all and WAS around after I dropped case and pushed, it might actually be signs pointing in the "I'm wrong" direction.

#1230

If I am wrong on Newc is this the angle that I was pocketed at? (Talking about Sleep not Zack)

#1233

Ladd/Sleep/HK/? =P

#1236

Neb comes to mind immediately, I'd have to think about this more for other names.

#1247

If it's Cape and Newc as the other two wolves this post becomes more hilarious. (Both unflipped wolves basically templated the same opener today.)

Kinda want to unpair Cape/Neb for 1257/1258

#1260

Is it a bad read if I call this a town post? Legit seems to be dismissive/annoyed at Dolby before he flipped. Might be a bad read but I'm actually pretty confident in it.

1263/1264 are mildly wolf leaning IMO for Neb

#1272

In my defense I hadn't seen your post saying the same thing yet =P

#1281

I think this post never comes from w/v worlds for Newc/Neb. Or not w!Newcomb/V!Neb worlds. If Newcomb flips red I am willing to bet anything that Neb flips red too.

#1284

That post is NAI. I stand by the reads I do use.

Is it bad that I read Newc lashing out at Zack as possibly towny? Probably yes.

#1330

This is actually a mildly convincing take lmao.

#1411

This is a pretty ballsy post for a wolf to make tbh. I kinda like it.

#1426

Dare I say this looks good for Newcomb? Dare I?

Rask's catchup is meh but also probably not AI.

Dobby's catchup is kinda meh. Also I believe Rask's "Oh Dolby is mafia" more than Dobby's.

I like Benneh's reads in the next sequence (Not at all because he calls me town what are you talking about)

#1500

Derp tell denied.

The rest I'm kinda vagueish on as my brain is struggling to keep going.

I didn't see anything particularly AI but need to dig into the posting a bit more.

--

Thus concludes my lacklustre wall of returns.

this wall feels exactly like a w!katze catchup wall lmao

i know i've caught myself like, overrelying on "link post - describe thought" a hell of a lot more as mafia than as town where i'm more... things line up better, i guess? instead of "this post is wolfy *links post*. this post is townie *links post*" it'd be more like "i have mixed feelings" (okay this is a bad example but im not going to make a better one)

[Cuthillius]

This is also like, the only thing you've written about me this game (that I remember) isn't it

yup

i basically didn't touch you d1

but i was like hm

and less for the read on me that didn't really bother me until today

and more for you just sorta fitting into several different worlds

i don't think apart from the read i have any huge issues with how you've played and what you've done

[Sunbae]

Dobby, good wall post <3

I'm going to make a longerish post about the vest

[Raskolnikov]

Dobby: ofc u don't want the vest. But for the exercice, GTH you have it, you gotta bomb NOW. Who goes?

[Cuthillius]

this wall feels exactly like a w!katze catchup wall lmao

i know i've caught myself like, overrelying on "link post - describe thought" a hell of a lot more as mafia than as town where i'm more... things line up better, i guess? instead of "this post is wolfy *links post*. this post is townie *links post*" it'd be more like "i have mixed feelings" (okay this is a bad example but im not going to make a better one)

have you played with bladescape often?

[Dobby]

ive said it in thread already but ill say again in a smaller post that i think cape is the best elim today

i'm a bit sketched by what felt like a building case against HK from lots of folks and i town read that slot pretty hard. maybe its LOL me but i personally have a hard time getting the progressions from cape ITG so that's where i'd rather go

but similar to sunbae i don't wanna bend the thread to my will so much as i want to at least clearly express my thoughts on those two

I think it's just me that have built a case on hk, and 0 ppl acknowledging that it exists? :p

Csargo also voted hk just saying (again) I'm just tryna manipulate you hope it works

[Raskolnikov]

*outside HK

[Sleep]

sunbae, zack
rask, ender
neb, dobby, katze
hk, monty, cuth
cape, newc

no matter how many times i look at it, have a hard time moving it around

below clears is people who seem more or less spewed

below that people who arent spewed but generally feel good

then folks with some stuff going for them

then people i find suspicious

[Cuthillius]

sunbae, zack
rask, ender
neb, dobby, katze
hk, monty, cuth
cape, newc

no matter how many times i look at it, have a hard time moving it around

below clears is people who seem more or less spewed

below that people who arent spewed but generally feel good

then folks with some stuff going for them

then people i find suspicious

have you written any words about how my playing eod1 the way i did as a wolf make even a tiny bit of sense?

[Raskolnikov]

[vote]newcomb[/vote]

[katze]

okay can i stop catching up there's too many wallposts

[Raskolnikov]

vote: Newcomb

[Sunbae]

Assuming we chop town (likely in an 11v2 situation), I think I'm supposed to target a villager read that I think the thread will miskill eventually? It takes away a chop and gives that chop the chance to make a kill instead. If that's the case, I was thinking Dobby because like, I really really really think Dobby is town, I've expressed that read as strongly as I can, and people are still really suspicious of them. So if I am right then Dobby turned from a mischop to a villager with kill power which seems good? And hitting a wolf let's them get an extra kill from the top which seems less good than clearing out two poe slots?

And if I'm wrong then cool, the thread was correct and I wasn't and a wolf dies.

Although typing it out there's only two wolves left maybe I'm incorrect and I'm supposed to just target a wolf read and if it's wrong they get to take someone on the way out anyways?

[katze]

vote: katze

uwu

umu

have you played with bladescape often?

think this is my first time playing w him, altho he was in a game i hosted

[Newcomb]

Newcomb,

I don't mean to be pointed or anything. We have two flipped wolves and 4 known villagers on day two. I know this is a laid back casual game and it's unreasonable to expect going super hard, but at some point I need you to just tell me who the wolves are from your pov. I've enjoyed your posting today and think your reasons for town reading some people are good, but townreading people in an 11v2 games with two dead wolves is easier to do for a wolf and calling people wolves in that game state is hard for them.

So like, not due to self-interactions or how easy/hard things are. Just "based on ladd and monstr/dolby being wolves and how things have played out, i think these people are the wolves".

But mooooooooom I don't waaaaannnna.

yeah that's fair. I'm at work right now but I can sneak off in a bit to jot down some thoughts

[Sunbae]

Dobby, the 5 hour thing is acknowledged and discarded

[Dobby]

if we're gonna do that we might as well chop me so that dobby has to make a different call. Otherwise we'll chop town today, you'll vest dobby, he'll blow me up, I'll flip town. Dobby might flip town idk, but we'll for sure be down 1x town we didn't need to be down.

I'm nit sure I understand what you're saying here, are u implying I might be influential in the chop and that'd lead to you? Because lol give me one example of a player that listens to me/,has read my posts and gone "yes this is good I agree it makes sense", just one please.

I'm definitely not sure you're my choice for today if that's your impression. I literally wrote an updated readslist with s lot of alternatives presented. I know others are Tring you and among them some people I trust, so it's not like I have locked in and not looking elsewhere, I just don't feel like your answers have done anything to help me find you here. It might just be a difference in playstyles but I don't want to blame it on that. Your case on me (that I answered with a list of 8 points) where some stuff where you misreading what I wrote (as in, yesterday as in second half of d1) etc, which you use to build a case, and peeling off the things I refute there, its not much left of your "case", and sure I might not have a lot going for me but like, I'd at least understand that focus if you chose it.


Also I hate it when ppl say "chop me" cuzmy instinct is to double down

[katze]

Assuming we chop town (likely in an 11v2 situation), I think I'm supposed to target a villager read that I think the thread will miskill eventually? It takes away a chop and gives that chop the chance to make a kill instead. If that's the case, I was thinking Dobby because like, I really really really think Dobby is town, I've expressed that read as strongly as I can, and people are still really suspicious of them. So if I am right then Dobby turned from a mischop to a villager with kill power which seems good? And hitting a wolf let's them get an extra kill from the top which seems less good than clearing out two poe slots?

And if I'm wrong then cool, the thread was correct and I wasn't and a wolf dies.

Although typing it out there's only two wolves left maybe I'm incorrect and I'm supposed to just target a wolf read and if it's wrong they get to take someone on the way out anyways?

imma be honest sunbae it sounds like im the optimal bomb target because every read ive seen on me has been soured by paranoia of "katze is a good wolf and nothing is 100% clearing" which will v likely not change unless exactly newcomb flips mafia

[Sunbae]

But mooooooooom I don't waaaaannnna.

yeah that's fair. I'm at work right now but I can sneak off in a bit to jot down some thoughts

No rush!
Well, maybe a little rush but not immediate rush lol

[Dobby]

yup

i basically didn't touch you d1

but i was like hm

and less for the read on me that didn't really bother me until today

and more for you just sorta fitting into several different worlds

i don't think apart from the read i have any huge issues with how you've played and what you've done

Fitting in to what worlds exactly? Is that based on anything but "not cleared, hes in that sweet spot of" he's nit top town and we are starting to lack players to put in the poe, because that perspective would make more sense from you

And not "fitting into several different words" because that's... I don't get that approach when you can just say "you're in poe" or something, this implies you've made association's or smth

[Dobby]

Dobby: ofc u don't want the vest. But for the exercice, GTH you have it, you gotta bomb NOW. Who goes?

I want the vest of course lol, and I'd probably use it qccording to whatever is discussed in thread before I pop it and not vanity shoot, probably. I just don't want to die today but I fear I will because I won't be here for eod which is at 2am

But yeah if I pop someone just this second it might honestly be cape lol

[Sunbae]

Idk katze, I think I can see plenty of worlds where you get called a villager by most of the thread!

[Dobby]

Dobby, the 5 hour thing is acknowledged and discarded

Ur the best sunabe something something the light in the dark and an angel and smth

[Newcomb]

Assuming we chop town (likely in an 11v2 situation), I think I'm supposed to target a villager read that I think the thread will miskill eventually? It takes away a chop and gives that chop the chance to make a kill instead. If that's the case, I was thinking Dobby because like, I really really really think Dobby is town, I've expressed that read as strongly as I can, and people are still really suspicious of them. So if I am right then Dobby turned from a mischop to a villager with kill power which seems good? And hitting a wolf let's them get an extra kill from the top which seems less good than clearing out two poe slots?

And if I'm wrong then cool, the thread was correct and I wasn't and a wolf dies.

Although typing it out there's only two wolves left maybe I'm incorrect and I'm supposed to just target a wolf read and if it's wrong they get to take someone on the way out anyways?

I'd target a wolf read personally.

[Sleep]

have you written any words about how my playing eod1 the way i did as a wolf make even a tiny bit of sense?

no but i can do so now:

- for starters you were heavily under pressure already before people hopped off

- your vote was the 2nd on ladd wagon and there was no guarantee people would follow it

- hypothetically in a world where you are teamed with ladd, maybe people get scared and go elsewhere that day and you look good down the line. or people go back onto you and you flip and decide to clear ladd. its not a bad move at all if youre in a spot where a lot of the team is suspected (and this is added to the fact that at the time monstr's slot was obviously a nonfactor)

- altho the sorc is technically kp, it doesnt actually change the balance of kills in this setup at all. it guarantees a town death but gives another kill right back into the hands of town, so the effect is net neutral. the only thing it does is slightly expand the timescale the game is played on, which i think is +town, but the perceived benefit of flipping the n3 sorc so far seems to have been greater than what i consider the actual utility of the mafia sorc to be


this is all just stuff thats kicking around in my head. by itself it remains just a possible explanation but my worry was that you didnt feel like you came into the day primed to draw conclusions off the flip, and thats frequently the case where mafia members bus a teammate and then end up coasting because they dont know where to go

its possible im overthinking this but thats why i wanted to talk to you to get a sense of how ur reading the game

[Sleep]

on the topic of Montmorency and the ladd wagon.

please look at #961 and #964

like Mont goes from outright shading Winston for the vote on ladd, to joining Winston by EOD. I am either paranoid at an obvtown move or I am Sherlock Holmes

man... 1604 says nothing

I have a feeling mafia is Mont this game. Too many things keep piling up

Vote: Montmorency

I think the team could simply be mont/dobby

I was getting at I feel like it is easy for mafia to do that with their partners at the start of each day just to like distance and stuff then hop on other people later.

I seem valid to me

:/ :/ :/

[Cuthillius]

Fitting in to what worlds exactly? Is that based on anything but "not cleared, hes in that sweet spot of" he's nit top town and we are starting to lack players to put in the poe, because that perspective would make more sense from you

And not "fitting into several different words" because that's... I don't get that approach when you can just say "you're in poe" or something, this implies you've made association's or smth

no it's not based off anything specific

just where pushes are and aren't going and who is and isn't super villagery

[nebjiamn]

imma be honest sunbae it sounds like im the optimal bomb target because every read ive seen on me has been soured by paranoia of "katze is a good wolf and nothing is 100% clearing" which will v likely not change unless exactly newcomb flips mafia

or even in that world tbh

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hehe