Sorceror 17er Game Thread

[Sleep]

what's the basis for the town read on cuth AND, what do you think the last wolf was doing during EOD1?

Remember, here were the wagons:



If Cape90 is the last wolf why not tie newcomb or rask with Ladd? if I'm the last wolf again, same thing. If it's Dobby (and I don't think you think it is) he could have joined ender on newcomb as well. same with sleep in terms of get Raskol, same with you in terms of get Raskol.

Basically I don't understand why Ladd died is what it all comes down to. anyways, ur thoughts would be appreciated.

Neither you or cape were present, though? This shift all happened within minutes. Are you actually reading back for context when you say this stuff?

[hollowkatt]

to bolded specifically: i felt strongly that the wolf was in cape/monte and said as such, i emphasized that i thought your play around then was very villagery to me

and yeah i GET that w!me would be happy to bring a tinfoiled v!cuth to f3 but i think (thought? probably doesnt even apply that much anymore due to the sheer amount of tinfoil there, in my eyes w!me would always kill him before f3 tho) he'd prob just get NKed before F3 anyway



im p sure cape wasnt around during EoD?

yeah capes last post was about 6pm D1 and EOD was 2 hours later. thanks for pointing that out. myself, dobby, sleep I think all were tho

[Dobby]

I put the bold back in for easy of reference.

Yes, I agree with you that w?Katze would have to play things out the way they have to win. I have walked that part backwards. I do still think there's a functional difference between how I've seen Katze wolf (champs/hydra) vs what I have seen here, but I will not rely purely on meta to make a read, that's just not something I can do.

I have no idea if that's how Cape wolfs or towns, it's just an observation on his play this game. He feels like he slips away when nobody is paying attention to him and only really makes bursts of posts when there's some amount of suspicion on him OR there's a push that needs input, which is why I generally prefer a Cape chop over a Katze chop, but I am coming around to the idea that neither of them can make F3.

I like this post, i agree on the bursts smth smth thing now that youve worded it for me, i agree but i dont know that i can call it towny or wolfy ither though yeah.



Man it hurts my tummy bbut i deleted my post in response to your wall with the 7-1 5-.1s and stuff

ill see if i can muster emotional power to rewrite it

[hollowkatt]

Neither you or cape were present, though? This shift all happened within minutes. Are you actually reading back for context when you say this stuff?

no, just looking at the vote count.
my post where I read back for content is this one: 2394

[Dobby]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA im literally writing 4 simultaneous posts in different tabs because my mind is everywhere and i fucking closed two down because i thought they were just pages with posts i wanted to remember to include


and i lost like two walls im gonna cry


(lmfao i didnt post this either before i posted that other thing so im just gonna click send)

[hollowkatt]

I like this post, i agree on the bursts smth smth thing now that youve worded it for me, i agree but i dont know that i can call it towny or wolfy ither though yeah.



Man it hurts my tummy bbut i deleted my post in response to your wall with the 7-1 5-.1s and stuff

ill see if i can muster emotional power to rewrite it

don't physically ail yourself on my behalf

[Dobby]

ive considered worlds where me/cuth/cape are all town and the last wolf is kinda just sitting to the side and letting the game play out because they don't need to do anything, and yeah in those worlds its basically always sleep/raskol

sleep i guess is tinfoilable but i don't really see myself considering raskol w any time soon? unless im flat out underestimating him i still think he's waaaaaay townier this game than he was in swag city and he still has eod1 going for him

i dont have the wim to do a metadive on him or anything so

wait nvm im never considering rask hes not w/w with monstr lol

so in that world i can rly only see it being sleep

shrug, i'll let it marinate in my head for a bit but i still think its just cape :p

i dont know if any world exists where not 2 of you die and the third one is always in f3, at that point yeah whoever it is any legacies or whatnot wont mean anything and just needs to be a "why is this person still alive" fest.

[katze]

i dont know if any world exists where not 2 of you die and the third one is always in f3, at that point yeah whoever it is any legacies or whatnot wont mean anything and just needs to be a "why is this person still alive" fest.

yeah please dont let me be the one in F3 for the love of god

id rather get MLed than in that F3 and if you know me you know how much i hate being MLed

[Sleep]

Idk just skim through his posts there and tell me you dont think he could be wolf based on tone and eod. comparing him to sf and saying "his tone is similar to his towngame" instead of saying "his tone is different from his wolfgame" is... one carries a lot more weight than the other imo.

just for the record, the game i referenced earlier where he beat me in f3 was a similar one where his teammates went down d1/d3/4, he hopped on bussing all of them, i caught on to the idea it might be him but didn't argue it strong enough to convince people and got hammered in f3. during that f3 i spent several days meta diving him and most of the mafia games i could find he townsided pretty hard and always kept his teammates in POE but only pushed them when necessary. (that game was one of the ones he studied). he didn't really do that in the SK 18er but he didnt really get a chance to)


i keep saying i don't wanna vote him because it feels like...unideal if he is town because he probably gets NKed in those worlds but its like. in my head i dont see it being you or rask, and probably not hk, the thing about default voting him in f3 is 100% true. i didn't really townread his posts this game but im still operating on a brain wipe

[katze]

vote: katze

[Dobby]

I yam yeah.

ok, I want to believe you, and this ties into a post I haven't written yet responding with my thoughts on your post before the one I'm responding to.

If Katze = wolf great, game is over.
If Katze = town and dies today do we get any closer to understanding who the last wolf is? Town Katze town reading Cuth I think is a good look for Cuth because Katze is a smart cookie and when town generally has really good insights into what other people are doing.

Katze town doesn't really give us more information on Cape as Katze is shielding Cape far less than they are shielding Cuth.

Wolf Katze probably doesn't care about shielding Cape, town Katze probably cares more about shielding Cuth just in terms of raw potential for the rest of the game should town katze be killed.

The longer we go sans Raskol the more I want to wolf read him. Partially because in this situation/game state inactivity is very wolfy.

If town is eating itself, and it appears as if we are, not getting involved is highly profitable for the last wolf. This is veering into random tinfoil territory and please slap me out of it if I'm being dumb, but it feels like the last wolf here wants us to continue being wrong more than they want to do anything of substance.

This could also point to Cuth and Sleep today. At least the three of us (me, you, katze) are showing up and making posts. Meh and weh I guess?

If we're wrong and it's not Katze I want to think about who dies next. Probs within you, me, maybe sleep. Probs not cape, cuth, or raskol.

There's 7 of us alive, one is a wolf.

6 - 1
be wrong
5 - 1
nk
4 - 1
be wrong
3 - 1
nk
2 - 1

if we can be wrong twice tbh does it really matter?

I decided I'm not responding to the post you made above this post, I'm just gonna quote it here:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

If Katze town flip Cape next, F3 is some combination of me, you, cuth, sleep, rask; probs rask, sleep, cuth tbh

If Cape town flip Katze next, F3 again same combination.

should we get to f3 that is

flipping cape first and they are town basically means you have to flip katze next anyways. Flipping Katze town does not necessarily mean you have to flip cape next, but likely it does.

the tldr of what i wanted to say was

yeah i wrote a post reasoninng around those exact same "if"s

but when it comes to Raskol

It's saturday, he's a euro, its 5am rn and before that day was pretty much dead.Don't make activity reads tbh.


I also think it's interesting that you guys are presenting rask as a f3 candidate because in my head hes just been the most logical nk last night even but definitely tonight. Sleep i feel is less locked in than rask, but maybe thats just me being too nice? i dont really want to bother with rask until f3 anyway, there are just too many in the poe and too few clears, and rask is one of those


and like, rask was katzes first lock so he shouldnt be alive in like, many worlds. If cuth dies twon though rask should DEIFNITELY be the nk unless im missings omeontinhg

like if im going to go with my interpretation of gamestate and try to mash everyonees thoguths together this would be the list

top town

rask
sleep
hk
dobby
katze
cape/cuth

top scum


and i was taking for granted that was the order people would get yoinked in but maybe im higher on that list than i gave myself cred for idk.

and i definitely wouldnt put BOTH rask and sleep in the f3 lol? that assumes you and me are the coming 2 night kills? i mean, with my amount of posting despite having a "relaxed" apporach to the game sure but i kinda look forward to being in my first f3 as town so yeah kinda torn lol.

flipping cape first and they are town basically means you have to flip katze next anyways. Flipping Katze town does not necessarily mean you have to flip cape next, but likely it does.

true i prolly outdumbed myself with the reasoning around that

if katzes dies and is town we're in a situation where either we kill Cuth (that was scumread by dead benneh and rask) OR cape (which was katzes pet read) and we wouldnt have much to go on other than katze actually being town and believing in her reads, which benneh also did, so yeah no fun situation


yeah thats correct

[katze]

benneh prob died over rask because benneh was actually playing the game

rask isn't mafia with monstr

if rask is alive in f3 you're allowed to tinfoil it but never before that

[Dobby]

yeah please dont let me be the one in F3 for the love of god

id rather get MLed than in that F3 and if you know me you know how much i hate being MLed

vote: katze

wuv u

[Dobby]

benneh prob died over rask because benneh was actually playing the game

rask isn't mafia with monstr

if rask is alive in f3 you're allowed to tinfoil it but never before that

i feel like rask has been coming in and when he plays he plays a lot? maybe that was just my impressions for being around when he was active yesterday but not sure id say hes inavctive. benneh kinda was inactive yesterday otoh, felt like he was just waiting for yoink to happen, pushed cuth a little but rask was the one PUSHING cuth

[katze]

wuv u

i mean

either i'll wake up and get a wim boost from the threat of being MLed or ill stand by this as the optimal vote for my sanity

until then #selfvoteandAtE

[Dobby]

rask has more posts than hk apparently :wowee:


also please read that cuth game or just skim it and tell me its tonally different lol

[katze]

i feel like rask has been coming in and when he plays he plays a lot? maybe that was just my impressions for being around when he was active yesterday but not sure id say hes inavctive. benneh kinda was inactive yesterday otoh, felt like he was just waiting for yoink to happen, pushed cuth a little but rask was the one PUSHING cuth

raskol has more posts than benneh apparently so i guess im just a dummy

[katze]

rask has more posts than hk apparently :wowee:


also please read that cuth game or just skim it and tell me its tonally different lol

i mean im well aware that cuth is a really good wolf but

...fine ill skim it

[Dobby]

i mean

either i'll wake up and get a wim boost from the threat of being MLed or ill stand by this as the optimal vote for my sanity

until then #selfvoteandAtE

you didnt say anything about my photo editing skills


i wanted to do that thing where you like, make the centre of the face bigger and the outside smoler to increase the effect of whatever you have going on in your pfp but this was the best i could do

okay i really need to sleep ints 530

[katze]

you didnt say anything about my photo editing skills


i wanted to do that thing where you like, make the centre of the face bigger and the outside smoler to increase the effect of whatever you have going on in your pfp but this was the best i could do

okay i really need to sleep ints 530

oh is that what u were trying to do

i couldnt figure it out but that makes sense

gn dobby ill skim this and then probably stop thinking about mafia until tomorrow myself wowee

[Dobby]

oh is that what u were trying to do

i couldnt figure it out but that makes sense

gn dobby ill skim this and then probably stop thinking about mafia until tomorrow myself wowee

gngn dont feel the need to skim it tonight its just got cool stuf, he initiated a cw on to his teammate with 3 mins to eod d1, and then just.. yeah. won :P

[katze]

first impression is that cuth types like me and i've noticed it before but i feel like it's... more katzey that game than normal?

i cant tell if thats a 2020 cuth thing or a w!cuth thing and its a feeling i don't really think makes any sense to anyone but me (i opened the SK game and i feel like it's less that so it might just be a 2020 cuth thing? idk)

also wow reading cuth posts is like. an experience. i feel like he could flat out lie to my face and i'd just nod and tell him to keep talking (this isnt an alignment read and i understand it sounds like one but its just the way he talks is unique)

and yeah some of these posts are really villagery

glancing at his posts this game id say he's townier in the slep game tbh

[katze]

benneh

ender
katze
sunbae

monstr

cape
hk but this read is from early d1
newc

roro
sleep
zack

ladd

csargo

monty
winston

rask

and if you're saying to yourself "gee four orgers on the bottom of that list" guess what i've been saying to myself for the last like 24 hours too

alphabetical within tiers as always

this list is kinda sticking with me

gth it doesnt come from a place with TMI but like

exactly the center is still alive and if he's a wolf then the bottom of his list is still all villagers + ladd so meh

probably can't ride the "too wack to be a wolf" when it's still effective at agenda just in a roundabout way

[katze]

gngn dont feel the need to skim it tonight its just got cool stuf, he initiated a cw on to his teammate with 3 mins to eod d1, and then just.. yeah. won :P

i didnt read it all i just turbo read d1

gonna reread eod1 of this game as well and figure out how much this holds

[Sleep]

okay i don't have the brain space to focus tonight tomorrow i will no life it up

[katze]

take monty off the list imo

give me a reason

i thought the tinfoil he had about visor posting a votecount right after you voted ladd was villagery and it's a peak "look, here's whats going to happen" vote

pretty elite eod1 by me imo

---

anyway flexing aside uhh

i forgot how much of an... interaction ender/cuth have at EoD1. it's kinda weird.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I don't mind this if Newcomb is off the table.

I do not feel like their reads feel entirely legit. Especially the way they've treated me.

what, trying to get you to either come up with better reasons for w-reads or stop w-reading the people you were for the reasons you were

which was a cover for trying to get you to contradict yourself despite my never placing suspicion on you and then being like oops haha he noticed and pretty firmly v-reading you ever since?

like i'll own that it might not have been the funnest experience and i'm sorry if it was unpleasant but

I disliked the questions but that doesn't create the centre of my main dislike with you.

Tbh, it might be petty, but the way you just straight up ignored my case but apparently lock me town rustles my jimmies something fierce.

Like, even if you 100% disagree with it, you don't even engage to say "I think that's an uncharitable take"? You don't try and work with one of your "lock" townreads when you think they're barking the fuck up the wrong tree?

Talk to me about why me potentially confbiasing myself into trying to lead on someone who is generally a good town player when they rand town and don't die is something you're okay with if you're town and you think we both are?

(theres a bit more but multiquote keeps breaking on me)

anyway im thinking. my impression of cuth at eod1 in slep is "look good after radishes flips", i don't think he expected radishes to go over? around the time mac votes radishes is probably when wolves realized he was dying

in this eod1 you have w!ender basically doing nothing but screaming "kill newcomb kill newcomb" and also kinda interacting with cuth and kinda advocating a cuth wagon for a bit before dropping that. could easily see that bit as w/w given the part where he drops it and goes back to pushing newcomb

as an aside to talking about cuth, me realizing just how much of enders EoD1 is anti-newcomb makes me think that he was just trying to piggy back off of newcomb pressure to kill him sooner rather than later, so im kinda thinking that this is another point in sleeps favor since sleep/me were the other main anti-newcomb forces at eod1

cuths eod1 is... less narrow tho. idk. i don't reaaalllllly feel like cuth is trying to look good off of ladd flipping but his first few posts of D2 make me squint a bit

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053829496
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053829499

idk. could be a bit too on the nose?

think ill read more tomorrow im mafiaed out today

[katze]

another thought i had is that cuth/ender had directly opposing agendas at EoD1 but if i assume the last wolf had a similar agenda the last wolf would be me or sleep, so i gues that small aside is a coin that flips both ways

shrug

y'all gonna make me agree to hardclear dobby and stick cuth into the 3 man PoE arent ya

[Dobby]

monty if you think i bus there i have no words for you lol

yeah kat this post is like literally one that stands out for me as, you expressed it better, too on the nose whych is why i had the tone read thingie


im gonna just go back and read whatever benneh had on cuth and see if it makes sense for me too

bt prop 1 is cape i think

yes i havent slept yet sue me

[hollowkatt]

benneh prob died over rask because benneh was actually playing the game

rask isn't mafia with monstr

if rask is alive in f3 you're allowed to tinfoil it but never before that

u can't tell me what to do ur not my mom

[Dobby]

pretty elite eod1 by me imo

---

anyway flexing aside uhh

i forgot how much of an... interaction ender/cuth have at EoD1. it's kinda weird.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

(theres a bit more but multiquote keeps breaking on me)

anyway im thinking. my impression of cuth at eod1 in slep is "look good after radishes flips", i don't think he expected radishes to go over? around the time mac votes radishes is probably when wolves realized he was dying

in this eod1 you have w!ender basically doing nothing but screaming "kill newcomb kill newcomb" and also kinda interacting with cuth and kinda advocating a cuth wagon for a bit before dropping that. could easily see that bit as w/w given the part where he drops it and goes back to pushing newcomb



cuths eod1 is... less narrow tho. idk. i don't reaaalllllly feel like cuth is trying to look good off of ladd flipping but his first few posts of D2 make me squint a bit

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053829496
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053829499

idk. could be a bit too on the nose?

think ill read more tomorrow im mafiaed out today

also this post from you is really good and kind of what ive felt id want to see from you but its also again the thing with expectations etc etc

uh


yeah



fuck why did one post make me reconsider my worldview