13er summer game thread

[Visor]

would also appreciate thoughts on cuth/taffy/sk too

kind of my blind spots

[Visor]

oh also, glad you didnt get laid off benneh, unless you wanted to, in which case sorry that happened

[nebjiamn]

would also appreciate thoughts on cuth/taffy/sk too

kind of my blind spots

taffy looks a lot better. their return to thread was really good imo and i think i prob misinterpreted their initial 'case' on achro. feels like they showed back up and started explaining more but it didnt feel manufactured or forced and just seemed genuine.

cuth eod felt a little rough from what i remember but i wanna reread. i could see him being a blindspot but i liked him a lot early d1 and agree that his frustration felt real and probly villa

sks eod sucks and is probly a wolf my dude

[nebjiamn]

i'm digesting kat's wall post

trying to sort out the kat/visor/achro triumvirate

not that theres anything linking you 3 i just am not sure how i feel about yall today

winston too actually

[Visor]

none of sks posts did anything for me, so i'm not against that, but thinking past that, where would you go next

assuming wolf

[nebjiamn]

none of sks posts did anything for me, so i'm not against that, but thinking past that, where would you go next

assuming wolf

hopefully dvc

idk honestly, prob in the you/ahcro/katze triangle

[nebjiamn]

for beter or worse i pretty much agree with you on insom fwiw

dont feel like i have a great reason to v read him but i just ... don't wolf read him either lol

[Achro]

i think achro posted 90% nonsense yesterday, similar to how he played in the last game, i didnt get a genuine sense from him that he was actively trying to put the game together to be solved. sure he posted shit that seemed like it could be solving, but take the whole picture of his play and i think it really comes across as just pushing people in different direction to careen like a pool break into others and mess with the thread cohesion

thats what he has done this game, he is a solving vacuum, and his read list kills of ladd -> cape was just nonsense. old mate is just a wolf and yall scared of getting yelled at to kill him

Thread cohesion killed a villager yesterday. Why would I be pro thread cohesion when I posted several times that I had a sinking feeling about things? This feels like two paragraphs of saying nothing substantial to me. I... gave reasons for all my reads. Like what.

If you're town you need to start participating more and asking questions if you don't understand where I am coming from because you sitting back and trying to read me without the aid of discussion with me isn't it.

[Achro]

Working on a post about other things but saw this,, @Visor

i also think a player like achro prob shouldve recognised cape wasnt acting in a way that wolves do when they are going down on d1

i mean, i picked up on it and i wolfread cape earlier so i dont get it

in hindsight i wish i uh said something instead of just pushing cuth instead but yolo (also i blame ladd )

I... never voted Cape yesterday, and had him as town most of the day with the caveat that Cape made me look very stupid recently as a wolf day 1, but my actions showed that I thought he was unlikely to flip wolf even with me being a little gun shy about screaming it from the roof tops and moreso I was discussing the thread state which led to this.

ladd: I am not getting up out of bed for this

cape and katze: bring it on

difference check choo choo

"if I think cape is town it means he is scum"

As is Achro tradition.

(Cape would be an info chop based off movement around them today)

But sincerely it feels like ladd is sipping drinking coffee and his observations feel okay but also his logic that one of me/katze must be a wolf because we wolf read each other is very predatory if katze is town. Like, 'ah I think they both look good, but idk...'

Also I feel like ladd's posting has kind of encouraged a lethargic feel to the thread. Like it's just easing the momentum towards 'yah bye cape' which we can flip today and if it is town makes ladd's efforts today look shady, chill game or no

also ladd what posts of mine are obvious villager posts. I will know if you are lying.

vote: ladd

I don't like the direction of the thread, and ladd feels like the one leading it. And following along on phone and see what they do? As if you are not in danger? Excuse me? Did you think calling me a villager would grant you some sort of clemency? Now is the fun.

So some things.

No idea how to read into cape being wrong on 3 different posts about scum tells when I am town. I wonder if this is genuine or appearing to be solving an active slot to buy himself time? What are my scum tells in those posts @Cape90 although if you are town at least you know to throw them away next time. Cape are we having a pokemash moment or a smas all stars moment? Hard to tell with you tbh

Anyway much has been made about my insecurity as it were. Jokes on you I took a binding vow at the beginning of 2023 that every time in a game I mention I am flawed, I have imperfect skills, and I have weaknesses my skills actually sharpen and I bend reality to make it so my team always wins.

I am 24-1 this year. The 1 is Anni where town lost because they didn't shoot my top suspect after I died n1 and he power wolfed. I am 15-1 as town. 9-0 as wolf. I am skilled, calm, and ferociously violent as either alignment if need be but mostly chill and here for a good time not a long time. I believe my town game is crisper than ever and my ability to both lead and follow has improved. My read are crystal-like in their clarity and I re evaluate very well these days. As scum my games and the fear I leave behind will speak for themselves.

Ok, so clearly I literally know I am awesome. So what's the deal with what I said earlier? All of that I just rambled about is true but also I recognize that I DO struggle more without meta at times and I do often use posting to help me in scum hunting through real time interactions and sneaky lines of inquiry and play. 50 feels rough compared to I believe the 80 or 100 of the previous game.

Also, I think it should be pretty obvious that fake solving as a wolf and actually figuring out people are very different experiences with limited posts. And if they aren't then they are to me. I guess you can murder me if you want if you think for some weird reason wolf achro faked this sentiment and then proceeded to do his best to solve before post capping. Don't really get it tbh. That post cap didn't obstruct me from wolfing because I just needed to fake solve. I worry for this post cap because I need to actually solve. I feel we may be speaking different languages. Also I posted almost double post cap because you said the game ended in 5 days but I 0 posted day 5 because town messed up and voted before I could post. Just FYI. I THINK this is town from you but also you running this like a treadmill is a little confusing. My solving has clearly at this point been eventful. Sorry for showing a little humility I guess I can turn up the ego if you like lmao. I know that's not what you are saying yeah yeah, it is just the ultimate mountain out of a mole hill and would never be wolf indicative for me. My posting after doesnt really fit into this narrative as I did my best Anyway yknow?

Anyway as for my list idea I thunk I saw it in some game recently and I was like 'oh yeah that sounds fun' I of course know that good mafia players abhor fun (they play mafia after all) so I didn't expect it to be completed but I thought it would be fun if it did. The main purpose is fuck RVS and look, barely any RVS. Beautiful. Secondly I was just vibing with everyone's reactions and going from there. How people talk about things early isn't always apparent day 1 in terms of alignment but I bet if I go back after a scum flips something in that discussion will help me solve, or help others if I am dead. Laying weird situations as groundwork for people to come back to is fun and it has helped me a lot in games.


Anyway I think today has proven my fears to be true in that I feel the game has been really stagnant. Feels like it was mostly me and katze churning the butter while everyone else sat around talking about cape or me or katze all day. For all this talk about solving day one dya hasn't fulfilled much in the way of sharp conclusions. But dya, benneh, and myself all have sk in our bottom 5 and so does katze. So lets kill him for the crime of wall posting and move on.


Oh

Right.

I thought wolf katze wouldn't have their scum partner as 1 town and me as wolf there because of she pushed me over they would look paired if one of them died. Most wolves get really nitpicky about things like that. It wasn't a major read but I liked the thought so I ran with it.

.

God it feels like everyone is interested in cape but me as I read the thread in real time. If that boy is a wolf he was in wolf chat 'yo I am kind of busy just bus me it's cool' or something because the stocks are DOWN and been down since before he did anything to my eye that's alignment anything.

All the while sk posts 5 times and everyone is like 'yeah I am sure it's fine he isn't frozen and crying in wolf chat he posted a wall why would I even vote this'

Idk just feels weird that lots of people have sk in bottom 5 but no one is willing to prod him. I know he can be town but I wanted to hear his thoughts and I never got to which sucks. I guess there's more than one scum. Just posting for visibility I guess? If cape is town this was a very scum sided day be ause despite me capping and thinking cape was OK if he dies as town that means I had no thread control (not surprising) which probably means someone who is good at controlling narratives is wolfing.

Which atp may be good for information as cape isn't exactly super villagery just expressing concerns because today to me will feel super bad if cape is town. If cape is wolf though someone on that wagon is 100% a wolf too seeing as how everyone is like 'yeah cape sure is wolfy'

Which means when cape came back this afternoon he is in antispew wifom territory.

More or less just typing out thoughts after 4pm as my post cap lifts because I am jamming to music.

In the end I guess this is a chill game and maybe this is the chill way to kill a wolf day one.
@SilverKeith I believe I pinged you earlier. Please respond I am clingy.

Point on the doll where the Achro didn't say enough about how the Cape wagon was very problematic, Visor.

I am now questioning if you read even half my posts. Which I don't know if that's wolfy or villagery but it is one of them.

[Achro]

Anyway, that being said good morning friends and foes alike.

I don’t really mind dying today if you all can’t gel with my world view, it’ll probably make each side happier and it is just a fun, chill game after all.

Anyway I found the Ladd kill a little odd at first, not that I would tunnel him or anything - that was mostly to reflect back on after the fact and see how people moved around others - but he was undoubtedly the leader yesterday who sent us into the rocks of a Cape kill.

So, why kill Ladd? I think it is either something else he posted, or what he would have thought after reflecting on the fact Cape was town over night. So I’m going to put my Ladd cap on and try to go over the thread a bit before I have to leave, not sure how much I will get done.

Yesterday Taffy didn’t like my insecurity, but that was just me reminding myself that I don’t know a lot of you and to make sure my processes are sound.

Cape(4): ladd, insomnia, ender, katze
insomnia(3): SK, Achro, Cuth
Ender(2): benneh, Winston
Cuth(2): Visor, Taffy
ladd(1): Cape
Sk(1): Dya

Ladd is gone, Cape is gone, and Ender is poisoned. My first thought is this could make insomnia/katze town and the people I am looking for are those that allowed the game state to drift to Cape all day yesterday rather than those that voted him out. A hands off approach, if you will. But I don’t think it’d ever be both Insomnia and Katze with those choice of NK/Poison, although wolves have surprised me before. I say that with… I guess 85% confidence, so some room for error but I think I am right on it.

So in total I need to find 3 scum in 9 names

Katze
Insomnia
SK
Cuth
Benneh
Winston
Visor
Taffy
Dya

And my starting premise is Katze/Insomnia are unlikely to be w/w. Alright then.

My first town core slot is going to Taffy. 95% confidence on this one. For starters, I know personally my ability to perceive intent on who votes me has a stellar track record, I’d give that 90% by itself, but the thread state of poking Taffy a lot over what I thought was an interesting and towny way of voting me brings it up another 5%. I know they are a skilled player, so I leave myself open to being fooled as we haven’t played together before and that’s where my social reads are weakest, but as of this moment I think I’d just lose to Taffy for that play + the thread state around them.

Which that alone now makes my job reading day 1 kind of a lot easier. I now have 5 villagers in my head that I can see how the other 8 suspects interacted with to see who pushed pro-town agenda, who pushed anti-town agenda, who coasted along, and who is unclear even with this.

Cool, that’s a lot of data. But let’s try to add at least 1-2 more likely town to this list to make it even better.

I liked Cuth in general yesterday but soured in real time in EOD, however if Ender is willing to let that go so am I, who am I to OMGUS for another man? So I’ll put Cuth in my town pile.

taffy
cape
ender
dya
sk

i don't realy think i'd wanna actually vote dya or sk but they're the bottom of my reads. sk more nullish and dya slightly wolfy

I said this was a town post yesterday. Now I am not so sure in the cold light of day because it might fit into wolf agenda. Keeping Cape as the focus by having them in their list of five, but setting up possible kills on SK/Dya later on. I think this isn’t a post a wolf would typical make if they were paired with either dya or SK, but I say that with about 70% confidence so a lot of room to be wrong, but I’d still be inclined to believe it. Now that I am thinking about it after a night’s sleep I don’t really understand the reasoning behind not pushing someone you think has been slightly wolfy in favor of letting the thread drift to Cape as town. You said SK and dya were at the bottom of your reads and SK was nullish which meant that cape and ender were nullish at worst too, what led you to being OK with voting one of them out but not dya or SK @nebjiamn

(This isn’t loaded I don’t understand)

Dya I warmed back on due to these posts:

cape
benneh
cuth
sk

not in any order

Wolves typically complete assignments as asked, Katze asked for 5 names but said less was ok, and Dya took the opportunity to give less. Not hugely confident, but a note.

i feel like when cuth commented it wasn't very memorable and didn't really move the thread at all. That's why cuth

I felt yesterday this was like me - concerned about moving the thread. There was a lot of dead air around Cape and I am presuming Taffy yesterday, so when Dya had cuth listed because the thread wasn’t being moved I really liked that comment a lot. It felt like a non-obvious mindmeld of concern for the state of things. I didn’t feel pandered to or manipulated, although I don’t know dya’s complete wolf range it is enough for me to slot them into my town pile for now.

Ender (Poisond)
Taffy
Cuth
Dya


Current town pile, leaving me with:

Katze
Insomnia
SK
Benneh
Winston
Visor

3 wolves, 3 villagers. I do not believe Katze/Insomnia are paired.


I paused for a second to wonder what Visor is even talking about, and now my head is back to hurting.

SK probably has wolf equity. I was running strats at EOD and was handwaving people as towny/wolfy to try to see where the chaos led, my town read on SK was pretty weak tbh.

I will leave it here for now as I am overdoing it I think still, but my direction is pretty clear atm. Go through the thread and see how the above six moved around the other 7 players and try to find the 3 most pockety/predatory among them while keeping an eye out for signs of being partnered.

Cool.

[SilverKeith]

for beter or worse i pretty much agree with you on insom fwiw

dont feel like i have a great reason to v read him but i just ... don't wolf read him either lol

I'm not sure this tracks but this is suggesting going to insom after a w!sk flip. Insom being the player I wanted to lunch last eod.

I might be biased on this one but I think thinking me and Insom are paired makes no sense but this is the second time I've seen it mentioned.

Idk how to aproach benneh's push on me bc I'm not sure how to actually read Benneh. I think my metric on him at mashes/turbo is that he eventually makes a post I really like and decide he's town and I'm right most of the times (which if we extrapolate to data is prolly rand but welp). Most of the times the post is him sorta making a good post on a wolf which I now think are bad posts aimed at me, a villager.

[nebjiamn]

If dya is a wolf this is a perspective slip and ender is town.

I am not saying it is a perspective slip. Only the resulting read if dya flips wolf. Ty for your time.

I'm not sure this tracks but this is suggesting going to insom after a w!sk flip. Insom being the player I wanted to lunch last eod.

I might be biased on this one but I think thinking me and Insom are paired makes no sense but this is the second time I've seen it mentioned.

Idk how to aproach benneh's push on me bc I'm not sure how to actually read Benneh. I think my metric on him at mashes/turbo is that he eventually makes a post I really like and decide he's town and I'm right most of the times (which if we extrapolate to data is prolly rand but welp). Most of the times the post is him sorta making a good post on a wolf which I now think are bad posts aimed at me, a villager.

….wat

[insomnia]

thx achro


Benneh, if sk is a villa, how much would your dya read drop?

[nebjiamn]

….wat

(Directed at the SK post, the achro quote was from me fat fingering MQ on my phone)

[SilverKeith]

….wat

I'm not sure what are you wat'ing.

tl;dr is that idk how to read you and that this take of w!insom right after w!sk doesn't make a lot of sense.

[Totally not Taffy]

If you don't think visor is the best chop after what I pointed out, don't know what you're looking for in scum folks. We can talk about other stuff tomorrow lol.

Of all the cases against Visor yours is the worst imo bc you do the same thing Cape did with his case on Ladd, take two posts and imply a contradiction that isn't there when you look at them in context. If I get time I'll show what I mean closer to EoD when postcap is lifted so you can respond.

Speaking of which, this is the second day you've postcapped yourself, you need to pace yourself better bc this is an extremely cheap and easy trick for wolves to get themselves out of the spotlight.

i agree with your case on visor

his worldview doesn’t seem consistent

but idk why you keep having these random 180s on sk, it’s like his mere presence is enough to make you relieve your concerns xD

...and because I find Achro's case on Visor bad, this post reads wolfy to me. Like the type of post a wolfbuddy makes who has decided to bus Visor and thus doesn't need to read and think about the case in order to agree with it.

you liked it cuz you think im a wolf, or you liked it cuz he had villagery thoughts or something?

Insomnia could you please use the reply function, I spent way too long wondering why you were saying this to SK when Visor was actually townleaning you, when really you were probably responding to Achro.

i’ll add dya in the winston tier

katze / sk / visor / benneh

idk if this can have 3 wolves but let’s see if there’s magic in PoE

mostly just this post made me feel a bit gross and i've independently been thinking about who'd fit in with benneh/katze :v

What about it made you feel gross especially since you seem to be agreeing with him?

I'm not sure this tracks but this is suggesting going to insom after a w!sk flip. Insom being the player I wanted to lunch last eod.

I might be biased on this one but I think thinking me and Insom are paired makes no sense but this is the second time I've seen it mentioned.

Idk how to aproach benneh's push on me bc I'm not sure how to actually read Benneh. I think my metric on him at mashes/turbo is that he eventually makes a post I really like and decide he's town and I'm right most of the times (which if we extrapolate to data is prolly rand but welp). Most of the times the post is him sorta making a good post on a wolf which I now think are bad posts aimed at me, a villager.

I think this is a misunderstanding bc the post you're referring to comes right after this question from Visor, but actually that's not who Benneh was replying to, I think he was following on from his own analysis of Katze's post.

[Cuthillius]

What about it made you feel gross especially since you seem to be agreeing with him?

the idk if this can have 3 wolves/the overall kinda deterministic way insomnia's been making reads/the sorta i guess this is the poe in a way that feels icky whether or not benneh/katze were also w

but in that moment i was looking at it in context of how he'd react if he was a third wolf with the two of them and that fit idk

[Totally not Taffy]

the idk if this can have 3 wolves/the overall kinda deterministic way insomnia's been making reads/the sorta i guess this is the poe in a way that feels icky whether or not benneh/katze were also w

but in that moment i was looking at it in context of how he'd react if he was a third wolf with the two of them and that fit idk

Thanks, and ftr I've reread your EoD and I no longer find it wolfy because the way you came to vote Ender felt organic and had that gotcha quality which Visor refers to as "towny sass".

[insomnia]

i believe the red, even if it's fake

taffy, i'll try doing that, but most of my posts are responding to the direct post above