17er Saints and Martyrs

[Wisdom]

Wait is Pizza here? D:

[Jan]

My normal playlist is one of Showtunes/John Williams+Jeremy Soule(Elder Scrolls Soundtracks)/Videogame &Movie Scores/Muse and ilk/80s synth rock like Cory Hart &Eurthymics/synth wave (Magic Sword is my current fave)/Indie singers famous for YouTube covers (Danillea Andrade being my current fave)

I watch Dr Horrible about as often as I watch Strange New Worlds: Subspace Rhapsody. (You should also watch that if you haven't; it's absolutely great)

But yeah, singing showtunes in the kitchen while I do dishes or cook is loads of fun.

BTW, I didn't see if you responded to my Doctor Horrible readslist specifically. Did you get what you were looking for out of it?

haven't watched it. Will likely look it up in a moment. (Hooray!)

I had no thoughts going into it just wanted to put a fun twist on a rather boring question.

I have not responded yet in par because I was busy eating but I just finished.

I expected you to put one of those pairings here as bait and switch:

I have already conflated Zack and visor (currently slightly sus to me)
and also Gemma and Enderwiggan. (Light town)

I don't think the org is all that mobile friendly. Lol

I honestly expected you to make hammer the villain because I said you're moist and thus dr horrible sidekick. which makes horrible a villager.

my initial idea was:
horrible - villager
hammer - wolf
penny - villager that is either being pocketed by wolf hammer or correctly identified by horrible as villa
bad horse - a towering presence respected and feared by everyone!

I also thought .. hmm I would have switched gh and visor, but I realize now that it would make no sense to think from your pov.

[Hally]

Wait is Pizza here? D:

no that quote is from a previous game where logic was town


also i don’t understand your post just now about logic, can you restate?

[Hally]

benneh, i checked and it’s more like how i remember it

visor voted logic early then backed off pretty hard but then later in the day said this again:

Logics posts on the last page are still bad lmao

I'll be back around EOD but won't be there for it obv

but then he pushed murska instead


tbh i do wonder if visor would’ve taken the opportunity of gh town reading logic to not even make this post if they’re w/w but he also isn’t dumb so i don’t really get why he wouldn’t follow through and just try to kill logic when he was extremely killable

[Logic]

i watched dr horrible a long time ago and remember enjoying it but not any details.

I think visor could easily be a wolf. But I also think he could still be a villager. He's kind of fitting that "could go either way" zone for me rn, but I'm trying to consider other people's reads there

as for your readslist I have quoted it for ease here

your read on me kind of sucks and it takes into account what you think I should know about you and gh that I clearly dont. Idk if you're making assumptions about the games I've been in with the two of you but I am stating things that are real to me and it makes no sense I would lie about them as a wolf. That plus "agenda" seems to be the crux of your issue with me and I know i have no agenda

I'd like to hear more about GH

and i'd like to now why you think visor is a villager considering everyone else this morning is ready to elim him

@nebjiamn - gh turn around is because I think logic has major wolf equity this morning and i'd expect gh to pick up on that. I still think how he's playe are villagery for him in a vacuum but GH doesn't suck at this game

Your hedginess on visor is noted

Where I am seeing a wolf-siding villager in visor: for one, he's asking one confirmed town and one I suspect of being (mostly) town to kill murska, a LHF that now we know has claimed Doctor (not to be confused with Dr Horrible). I don't see murska as scummy, but that could be the fact that he has posted somewhere in the range of a dozen times thus far.

Second, visor doesn't seem to have an agenda. He feels too "can't be assed" to GAF, and I don't think that's his scum game.

Regarding GH: this comes down to a self-absorbed meta read, but the fact that he has only stated my alignment correctly as town and always gotten it wrong when scum has me thinking the trend continues. There definitely is the wifom that he's finally doing it differently this time (because he's scum) but I'm calling GH town and I know I won't be alive to have to reassess.

And fair enough on "my read sucks" (there) but do you have anything to say about seemingly backing off on your scumread of me between p#779 and p#807 (both yours, but I think p#802 is the one that really is the shows the "progression" that I think it lacking.

[Hally]

unrelated but this post right above that one seems bad

I have had the same thought process about wisdoms posts.... And misread them like 3 games in a row lol

Someone else can figure them out lol

i’m not sure it’s really like visor to not try to read someone?

but tbh it’s really just the toan, wolfy use of double “lol”

this is (hopefully) gonna be the dumbest read i make this game

[GeneralHankerchief]

Your hedginess on visor is noted

Where I am seeing a wolf-siding villager in visor: for one, he's asking one confirmed town and one I suspect of being (mostly) town to kill murska, a LHF that now we know has claimed Doctor (not to be confused with Dr Horrible). I don't see murska as scummy, but that could be the fact that he has posted somewhere in the range of a dozen times thus far.

Second, visor doesn't seem to have an agenda. He feels too "can't be assed" to GAF, and I don't think that's his scum game.

Regarding GH: this comes down to a self-absorbed meta read, but the fact that he has only stated my alignment correctly as town and always gotten it wrong when scum has me thinking the trend continues. There definitely is the wifom that he's finally doing it differently this time (because he's scum) but I'm calling GH town and I know I won't be alive to have to reassess.

And fair enough on "my read sucks" (there) but do you have anything to say about seemingly backing off on your scumread of me between p#779 and p#807 (both yours, but I think p#802 is the one that really is the shows the "progression" that I think it lacking.

somebody ping me about this post closer to EOD

(so like 20 hours from now, or better yet in the final hour of the dayphase)

I will not be elaborating on it further at this time

[Wisdom]

no that quote is from a previous game where logic was town


also i don’t understand your post just now about logic, can you restate?

Explains why I didn't recognize it ^^' But there are a few names in this game that I'm unfamiliar with and if any of them are alts I'm clueless.

The perspective slip thing?
I mean: Wolves usually use every argument in their arsenal to push villagers. Logic claiming that he has an argument but doesn't elaborate on it (to me) implies that he's not confident that it's an argument worth pursuing. Wolves doesn't do that, they either push and if they realize it's a bad argument there's literally no point in bringing it up to begin with. Plus, it wasn't like Logic was trying to fake having reads that wasn't there, he could back it up when prodded about it and from my PoV it was in a way that showed why he didn't share it to begin with.

It's very rare to see wolves undershare their reads, they're more prone to the exact opposite and I believe that's not only an argument for newer players but should apply here as well.

Also - "Perspective slips" are very difficult to find villagers do, as a wolf. If you have TMI it's hard to notice when someone does something that wouldn't make sense from a townies perspective when you know they're town and that's their perspective.

Arguments based on perspective slips or TMI are more likely to come from villagers in general.

[Logic]

like he is calling visor a wolf siding villager but zack who was a billion times more villagery than visor was a wolf? again, here is how he treated visor for misreading him in his town game:


??????????????

FTR, this very game I did say that the person that was most confident on me being a wolf was Zack, who I also was scumreading. Zack is another person I consider quite capable of reading me correctly.

Visor in that game was playing in a wimmy manner, and his confidence in my flipping wolf informed my confidence in his flipping wolf. Did I not do the exact same thing here with Zack?

Contrast visor this game, where he is figuratively limping along, content to not make waves and is barely scumreading me. I'm attributing his scumread to not giving AF.

[nebjiamn]

somebody ping me about this post closer to EOD

(so like 20 hours from now, or better yet in the final hour of the dayphase)

I will not be elaborating on it further at this time

lame

cant you at least tease it a bit more!

[nebjiamn]

Vote: Visor

[Arctic]

wow! you guys sure were right about this!

i did nothing overnight ftr

[nebjiamn]

FTR, this very game I did say that the person that was most confident on me being a wolf was Zack, who I also was scumreading. Zack is another person I consider quite capable of reading me correctly.

Visor in that game was playing in a wimmy manner, and his confidence in my flipping wolf informed my confidence in his flipping wolf. Did I not do the exact same thing here with Zack?

Contrast visor this game, where he is figuratively limping along, content to not make waves and is barely scumreading me. I'm attributing his scumread to not giving AF.

you're villa reading him for this stuff??????? (the last point i bolded because i think its a weird characterization of visor's read given what hally just posted, but also its just weird to v read him for that since i know you think he can read you too.)

[Arctic]

Doesn't this make logic almost assuredly wolf? I can't imagine wolves wouldn't have gotten their shit together to kill him otherwise

wolves could have either been bussing or just had not enough thread presence or control to get logic out

and nobody actually did a good job of convincing me to vote logic either

[Hally]

Explains why I didn't recognize it ^^' But there are a few names in this game that I'm unfamiliar with and if any of them are alts I'm clueless.

The perspective slip thing?
I mean: Wolves usually use every argument in their arsenal to push villagers. Logic claiming that he has an argument but doesn't elaborate on it (to me) implies that he's not confident that it's an argument worth pursuing. Wolves doesn't do that, they either push and if they realize it's a bad argument there's literally no point in bringing it up to begin with. Plus, it wasn't like Logic was trying to fake having reads that wasn't there, he could back it up when prodded about it and from my PoV it was in a way that showed why he didn't share it to begin with.

It's very rare to see wolves undershare their reads, they're more prone to the exact opposite and I believe that's not only an argument for newer players but should apply here as well.

Also - "Perspective slips" are very difficult to find villagers do, as a wolf. If you have TMI it's hard to notice when someone does something that wouldn't make sense from a townies perspective when you know they're town and that's their perspective.

Arguments based on perspective slips or TMI are more likely to come from villagers in general.

but the thing he is talking about isn’t a perspective slip, if you actually read his explanation he is just saying that he doesn’t like how dya backed off him from one post to the next (which they didn’t even do)

i don’t get what you’re saying about undersharing reads, i think you’re just… not correct about that being an AI thing


but anyway, i’m gonna give logic some space (heh) to do his thing cuz i acknowledge i might be tunneling

vote: visor

do something

[dyachei]

Your hedginess on visor is noted

Where I am seeing a wolf-siding villager in visor: for one, he's asking one confirmed town and one I suspect of being (mostly) town to kill murska, a LHF that now we know has claimed Doctor (not to be confused with Dr Horrible). I don't see murska as scummy, but that could be the fact that he has posted somewhere in the range of a dozen times thus far.

Second, visor doesn't seem to have an agenda. He feels too "can't be assed" to GAF, and I don't think that's his scum game.

Regarding GH: this comes down to a self-absorbed meta read, but the fact that he has only stated my alignment correctly as town and always gotten it wrong when scum has me thinking the trend continues. There definitely is the wifom that he's finally doing it differently this time (because he's scum) but I'm calling GH town and I know I won't be alive to have to reassess.

And fair enough on "my read sucks" (there) but do you have anything to say about seemingly backing off on your scumread of me between p#779 and p#807 (both yours, but I think p#802 is the one that really is the shows the "progression" that I think it lacking.

Logic

I havent backed off my scumread of you at all. And I don't understand why you think I have

vote: logic

[Arctic]

idt the offwagon kill indicates much because there's a claimed protective who wolves didn't kill so it's likely a doc dodge

that isn't to say i necessarily think wolves didn't bus, just that the kill doesn't really indicate it imo

Not sure if Dya would go out of their way to protect a wolf mate who clearly didn't have his heart in the game, leaning v there.

absolutely do not clear dya for this, in a recent wolfgame they attempted to refuge in audacity townreading a runaway wagon on a wolf partner who was p much always dying d1 (hydra g2 with benneh)

If logic is a wolf there's a high chance gh is too.

And visor might be but I'm not sure there yet. I'd like to hear more about the wolf reads therr

do you not think gemma is a wolf anymore? why'd you vote her at eod?

[dyachei]

idt the offwagon kill indicates much because there's a claimed protective who wolves didn't kill so it's likely a doc dodge

that isn't to say i necessarily think wolves didn't bus, just that the kill doesn't really indicate it imo



absolutely do not clear dya for this, in a recent wolfgame they attempted to refuge in audacity townreading a runaway wagon on a wolf partner who was p much always dying d1 (hydra g2 with benneh)



do you not think gemma is a wolf anymore? why'd you vote her at eod?

because I didnt want to vote murska and thought syn's large wagon looked bad. I was wrong on the latter part

[Wisdom]

but the thing he is talking about isn’t a perspective slip, if you actually read his explanation he is just saying that he doesn’t like how dya backed off him from one post to the next (which they didn’t even do)

i don’t get what you’re saying about undersharing reads, i think you’re just… not correct about that being an AI thing


but anyway, i’m gonna give logic some space (heh) to do his thing cuz i acknowledge i might be tunneling

vote: visor

do something

The strength of the argument isn't what I'm talking about, only that he used the arguments in a way I believe is town AI.

I could be the fool here, it's happened before, but it's my stance right now anyway.

[Arctic]

Bweh, I thought Zack was so threadspewed v that he would be the obvious doc target, but I assume the protect claim might have messed that up in one way or the other.

Off wagon nk implies that Syn was quite bussed*, but I’m willing to let Ender go right now. Ender felt like someone Syn pushed for the sake of pushing someone rather than a distancing attempt.

*If the wagon was pure wolves would be desperate to nuke it. However, if it was *not* pure then it's easier for the bussing wolves to hide in it, as long as it doesn't shrink enough to make it weird that they are alive.

Still got my eyes on Visor tbh. Not sure if Dya would go out of their way to protect a wolf mate who clearly didn't have his heart in the game, leaning v there.

Id be pretty surprised if visor isnt a wolf

He pretended to care about mine and rask's reads on syn but he never really truly evaluated syn i feel

He asked me and rask to elaborate on why syn was wolfy for us, when we both already explained it in a way that AT LEAST it should have got him interested in checking what was up with syn instead he didnt really care, idk its a bit unfair i guess but id be surprised if as a villager he just writes syn off like that considering he like us played most org games

The murska push was sooo lazy coming from him imo

Idek why he pushed murska, among low posters murska was def 1 of the better ones

this case sparks joy

[Arctic]

i didnt mean to quote the first thing it wont get out of my multiquotes wtf

[nebjiamn]

i'm decently sure GH just read that logic post as outting cause its nonsense

and gh already committed to not talkinga bout it anymore until eod so even if i'm wrong he cant dispute me

(real though, his read on visor being a villager is just commentary and i don't see where he gets 'villager' from it.

the claim of no agenda is silly because of the points hally brought up and logic is giving visor way too much credit for how he pushed on him but yet didn't bother pushing him when it mattered and instead pushed a villager who happened to be pr. this should be setting off alarm bells for logic shouldn't it???? from logics pov visor wolf read him and then decided NOT to vote him to push a different villager.

also the read on gh is boring and too self-absorved even if he described it as such. theres plenty to read GH on besides that. why are GH and zack held to self-involved reads on logic but visor gets a pass? idgi)

[Wisdom]

I also don't think "If Logic was town he would have died" is a valid argument.

With 3 minutes left the tally was 4-4.

7 out of 17 players were online.
It was: Ender Ladd GH Murska Arctic Rask and Jan

That includes everyone who voted Syn at that point: Rask Jan Ladd Ender

The remaining three (Arctic GH Murska) are literally the only ones who could have made sure Logic died instead.

GH broke the tie, making it 5-4, then Arctic and Murska joined in.

Well if GH was wolf and Logic was town I'm quite confident he wouldn't put the death warrant on Syn there.

At that point it'd be super weird for one/two wolves of Arctic and Murska to try to save Syn, especially since I'm pretty sure Syn wanted to die anyway.

Lol I just realized that the 7 people who voted Syn also were the only ones online at EoD.

[Arctic]

arctic looks rough imo

not enough i wana push him today but his eod feels a bit informed

breh what
if i made the most pathetic bus in existence which gets me zero cred whatsoever i wouldn't be able to show my face round here again

every time i've bussed either in turbos or long form (i cant even remember bussing ever in long form but i probably did a while ago) it's been extremely well-executed and usually a game winning move where i can sense that the wagons are always gonna end up being on wolves and i get in on the action beforehand

but it was clearly far too late for me to get any cred by voting syn - if i was mafia i would have just made up some reason to vote logic or tried to get people to kill gemma or something. i get there's a "looking reasonable" factor but we both know that idgaf about looking reasonable as mafia, and my actions at eod basically boxed myself in to vote a wolf since i was townreading logic and agreeing that with the way syn was playing we were never gonna find them as v + the meta concerns ladd gave at eod, so it was just correct to remove them

blah blah self-meta i know but cmon lol

[Wisdom]

I also don't think "If Logic was town he would have died" is a valid argument.

With 3 minutes left the tally was 4-4.

7 out of 17 players were online.
It was: Ender Ladd GH Murska Arctic Rask and Jan

That includes everyone who voted Syn at that point: Rask Jan Ladd Ender

The remaining three (Arctic GH Murska) are literally the only ones who could have made sure Logic died instead.

GH broke the tie, making it 5-4, then Arctic and Murska joined in.

Well if GH was wolf and Logic was town I'm quite confident he wouldn't put the death warrant on Syn there.

At that point it'd be super weird for one/two wolves of Arctic and Murska to try to save Syn, especially since I'm pretty sure Syn wanted to die anyway.

Lol I just realized that the 7 people who voted Syn also were the only ones online at EoD.

I'm quite confident that if Logic is town then GH is town as well, absolutely no need to thunderbus at that moment otherwise.

[Arctic]

nah i don’t think he plays it like that as wolf unless logic is one too

caveat that i haven’t actually seen him wolf in a normal game but from how he wolfs in turbos + how i’ve heard him/people who know him talk about his wolf game, he’s a firm believer in bussing being dumb and goes hard powerwolfing so i think w!him would find some reason to either vote logic or at least not vote syn. obv syn was super bussable but i don’t think arctic would really give a shit about that lol. once it became clear it was gonna be syn vs. logic as the wagons i think w!arctic would have made up some reason to push logic not just shrug off the suspicion on him

again ofc doesn’t apply if he is exactly w/w with logic which uh could definitely be the world we’re in lol but i wouldn’t lunch him outside that

wow you're good at mafia

[Arctic]

I think ben's entrance into the game today is really villagery. I was more on the fence about him yesterday. Although I've been a bit frustrated at times this game with Hally (mostly because I think my communication sucks), I think her solving today is mindmeldy to mine. I think the way she's looking at the game makes sense and she's re-evaluating based on flips - even if I sometimes disagree with the outcome. Like I think arctic's vote looks like the rest of his game did - agenda'd

yea my vote on the wolf was extremely agenda'd

:moyai:

[Hally]

I'm quite confident that if Logic is town then GH is town as well, absolutely no need to thunderbus at that moment otherwise.

nah this is a bad read

arctic had already telegraphed he was voting syn before gh voted, and nobody else who was actually around at EoD wanted to kill logic

i know the wagons were close but backreading my recollection is it was pretty clear syn was going over there or it would at least be tied just based who hadn’t picked a wagon yet and where they said they were leaning

plus gh was strongly town reading logic, he really couldn’t not vote syn there. staying off wagon when logic cis at risk of dying would look terrible

[Logic]

Logic

I havent backed off my scumread of you at all. And I don't understand why you think I have

vote: logic

It certainly looked like you backed off due to the mild pushback from GH

[ladd]

Gemma has a couple of slightly w/w looking posts about syn

Hally looks villagery today

Probably i am crazy but i dont mind logic posting today lol

Gh had a couple of posts that actually seemed wolfy between eod and now

Kinda buy artic posting today, maybe i am a sucker

I wont be at a pc for a while so this is all en passant stuff