17er Saints and Martyrs

[Hally]

dya not sure if you saw but i responded to your spew read on wisdom here:

thanks, this is not really that different from me except i’d have wisdom right above vanta and you probably same level as ender? idk. otherwise i basically agree (also ladd is conf town, look at the SoD post)

re: wisdom, i don’t really find the spew stuff convincing? in the post where he talks about syn he’s trying to divert people’s attention away from him and onto murska so it’s serving a pro-wolf agenda. but in the post where he talks about wisdom he’s just saying he doesn’t want to read her, he’s not really pushing an agenda with it though (unless the agenda is just to not give a read on a teammate, but meh?). idk they don’t really seem that similar to me

idk basically what it boils down to is i don’t want to kill one of ladd’s top villa reads lol. also she voted visor D1, which i think was first time anyone really wolf read him? i feel like that’s gotta be worth something


i think i only have one post left oops

[nebjiamn]

just goin with gut now i'd say wolves are most likely in gemma/vanta/wisdom. if that's wrong there's equity for ender. if that's still wrong i'd look most at dya/hally but i thinka nd hope we don't make it that far (idk if we have the mislunches for that anyway)

tl;dr
murska
rask
me!
arctic

dyachei
hally

ender

vanta
wisdom
gemma

[dyachei]

dya not sure if you saw but i responded to your spew read on wisdom here:

I dont really think there was much of an agenda other than to not give a read on a partner. I might be wrong, I just want to make sure I keep talking about it so people don't forget.

I'm absolutely willing to look at vanta again, rask

[nebjiamn]

i'm probly not gona re-eval on rask because he was one of my instant soulread vs besides zack and ladd has done the work already and called him basically lock clear too

i don't think arctic can be with visor so i'm also not likely to re-eval there

[Hally]

also a gentle reminder that both GH and logic had an issue with vanta

specifically GH's issue was vanta had good wolf equity if logic flipped v. logic did not v read vanta at all and i don't really get WHY he scumread vanta for wha the did but it was obviously real

yeah i was thinking about this overnight

i didn’t check but my recollection is vanta’s wolf read on logic started as an OMGUS in response to logic pushing him D1 and then afair he maintained logic as his top wolf read the rest of the game? worth looking at how that developed (or didn’t)

i do still think vanta made some posts (particularly the one about rask/murska being w/w) that wolves typically wouldn’t think of though, but i know ladd didn’t really put any stock into it so idk

[dyachei]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Okay, with absolutely very little meta to go on, in fact let's say none, I'm kinda townreading Raskol and Jan, kinda FOS on Arctic, Ladd, and Dyachie, and sorta null on everybody else. Also I guess Benneh is really Nebjiamn (my list came from the signup list).

I kinda go with vibes, at least early game, if you're wondering where this very lame reads list came from.

I do not agree with the dog name list. I would never name a dog something more than 2 syllables.

Sorry I haven't provided a lot of content, I got here late and was reading from the beginning.

Push me, I'll post more then.

Between keeping the players straight in my head and trying to figure out how to get a votecount (ack, math? really?) I'm pretty much at sea here. To mix a metaphor.

Based on the last votecount I think I like the composition on Syn the best and would probably sheep that vote if I voted right now.

Right out of the gate I didn't think much of Arctic's entrance, and subsequent posts have not really helped me see him as town. Gonna reread Ladd and Syn and try to get a grip there.

I have seen Ender's scum game and it's pretty scary. Have a lot of respect for his town game, too. But which is it? Research required. Kinda leaning town though atm.

Logic push on me is bad but tbf I did ask for a push.

I am looking. What I'm seeing is a lot of meta reads, which I (a) cannot evaluate for veracity and (b)

Now for some opinions.

Arctic’s entry pinged me, because it was just a “here I am, will play later” but then he continued to post. It just looked like trying too hard. He was immediately voted by Rask and Murska for these posts. They have both gone on to vote somebody else, oddly enough again it’s the same person (Syn). (as of right now) (I think)

Oddly enough I also would kinda like to vote Murska for opportunistic voting. This makes no sense because I think Rask is a villager and a sharp player and kinda wanta sheep Rask myself.

Hally, sorry I said I couldn’t remember any of your posts, because in fact I did remember that one elaborate pee pee poo poo thing. If that is some copypasta I haven’t seen it. NAI, but appreciated. Ya got me. Not voting Hally today.

I also kinda want to OMGUS Logic because it’s really hard for me to believe he honestly thinks I'm a wolf here. I could see his vote as a push, but when it came to who he really really thinks is a wolf? And he ends up on me? I'm not buying it. Logic had the same bad entry dynamic as Arctic, but at least didn’t keep apologizing for it.

While I don’t know that dyachei is wrong I wasn’t wild about the way he kept shading Arctic without putting a vote down, but then he finally did.

So let’s see here, who will it be?

vote: Logic

EOD/SOD falls at a time when I would literally have to stay up all night to be here for it. Which I very nearly have, but there are limits. If I'm still alive tomorrow I promise to do better. I've just been on the back foot the whole of D1 here. If I'm not here, well sorry for my undistinguished D1.

so I'm only through the first page of vanta's ISO and something I find really interesting is that he says he has experience with like 3 players and then makes a read list (last post) with none of them...and OMGUS on logic when he asked to be pushed

[Hally]

just goin with gut now i'd say wolves are most likely in gemma/vanta/wisdom. if that's wrong there's equity for ender. if that's still wrong i'd look most at dya/hally but i thinka nd hope we don't make it that far (idk if we have the mislunches for that anyway)

tl;dr
murska
rask
me!
arctic

dyachei
hally

ender

vanta
wisdom
gemma

talk to me about dya?

[dyachei]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Here is my current list, from towniest to wolfiest. There's a lot in the middle/further research needed.

Raskolnikov
Hally
Murska
Benneh
Dyachei
Ladd
Gemma
Arctic
Ender
Wisdom
Arctic
GeneralHankerchief
Visor
Logic

I just moved Arctic up a bit. Thought GH seemed wolfy earlier today, it helped a little that he came in with reads. Of course he came in with reads after being kinda prodded, but then so did I. I would have done it without the prod, mayebe he woudl have too.

Anyway, I appreciate GH's reads, but I have only rarely understood the whole "if XXX flips [town/wolf], YYY is probably [town/wolf]. I mean sometimes I understand it. But when GH says my alignment depends on what Logic flilps, well, it doesn't. I am what I am. It's not gonna magically change no matter how Logic flips.

(Also if I had a nickel for everything I didn't undertand, I would have a whole pile of nickels--still not worth much but I guess I could put 'em in a sock and use 'em as a sap)

Visor--has he even posted today? Did he indicate he was going to disappear?

Logic--I feel he was reading my posts to get rid of me, not to try to solve me. I also don't understand his push on dyachei, who I feel has looked pretty towny all in all, and I'm not just saying that because of the avatar.

Not sure why I put Benneh so high. I have a kind of weird, time-consuming system that usually I only do somewhat later in the game, and that's where he landed but...more research needed. I could say that also about Gemma, Ladd, and Jan.

Here is my current list, from towniest to wolfiest. There's a lot in the middle/further research needed.

Raskolnikov
Hally
Murska
Benneh
Dyachei
Ladd
Jan
Gemma
Arctic
Ender
Wisdom
Arctic
GeneralHankerchief
Visor
Logic

I'm just throwing this out here because it's proably good to get your thoughts in thread even if said thoughts are silly.

Bottom line, I did some back-reading and murska has dropped way down on my list. Not a lot of posts (even fewer than mine!), but I'm kinda confused about the PR claim. Maybe I'm just stupid but on the board where I usually play if someone claims protective PR and is not counterclaimed, that person usually eats the NK right away. Now maybe the wolves were more concerned about Zack. That is a possibility.

Not cc'd and I think he had 4 votes on him at the time so a legit time to claim. I kinda don't like to suss people for still being alive, but sometimes I just do.

But I was also pinged by murska's coming into the thread with "I considered zack but stayed on Rask" bit. Okay, on D1 he townread Zack and Rask pretty consistently, as did most of the thread. But then he mentions a couple more times that he's staying on Rask until he's dead, barring [something, I forget]. Hitting it really hard.

D1 he wanted to push a counterwagon to Syn for some reason.

His points on discussion about Ender today also kinda pinged me, I'm not sure why. I think because really not a lot of people were talking about Ender today.

Apparently my alignment depends on Logic's alignment so I would still kinda like to see his flip. But i see no traction there right now.

Not really sold on Gemma. Aside from Logic, I would really, truly like to vote GH, but that's not gonna go either.

Have town leans on everybody on Visor except Wisdom. Absolutely cannot say the same for voters on Gemma.

I had the briefest moment of thinking maybe I would get up at 6 am for EoD but, uh, get real, it's Saturday. Also I need to save my strength for shoveling snow off my driveway.

vote: Visor

vote: Logic

Only thing that makes sense to me in this gamestate.

I dont think vanta is ever with logic - didn't include the post but think that him listing arctic twice would be weird if partners. Think if vanta is a wolf, it's with gemma (see last post) not wisdom.

the visor push feels really like...lackluster. Idk

[dyachei]

ok so this is gonna be a weird post but I think the thing I'm most concerned about with vanta is how high they had me on their list. Like they don't know me, a lot of people that do have me fairly low. But I haven't been that villagery with the exception of EOD2 and he doesn't mention that at all, some of the reads come before that.

I do think my EOD2 was villagery, but like...I'm not sure someone who doesn't know me should be reading me this high so it kind of feels like TMI

[dyachei]

gonna burn a post to say that I typically like post limits but 50 is starting to feel too small. I like being able to bounce ideas off people and it's really aggravating that I can't really do that well here

[Vanta Black]

Well I have questions. Maybe bad questions.

Is the factional NK mandatory on this board? (This is the maybe-bad question)

Other question: not that I think I'm in any danger of hitting it, but do we count our own posts?

[dyachei]

Well I have questions. Maybe bad questions.

Is the factional NK mandatory on this board? (This is the maybe-bad question)

Other question: not that I think I'm in any danger of hitting it, but do we count our own posts?

when i hit the limit taffy let me know the other day.

But yes, you should have a general idea of where you are in case Taffy is unavailable

factionals are usually mandatory on MU, and so I would assume so here. Even if they aren't the meta for most players here is to use the NK every night

[Hally]

I dont think vanta is ever with logic

huge if true


skimmed gemma’s D1 super quick and yeah idk they just seem like a wolf. there’s no real substance to any of their solving

they v read ender fairly strongly for what seems like a super thin reason. doesn’t feel w/w, which might become important

not really getting anything else out of it

[dyachei]

huge if true


skimmed gemma’s D1 super quick and yeah idk they just seem like a wolf. there’s no real substance to any of their solving

they v read ender fairly strongly for what seems like a super thin reason. doesn’t feel w/w, which might become important

not really getting anything else out of it

I meant arctic lol

[Vanta Black]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

so I'm only through the first page of vanta's ISO and something I find really interesting is that he says he has experience with like 3 players and then makes a read list (last post) with none of them...and OMGUS on logic when he asked to be pushed

I want to say, since I did ask to be pushed, some of Logic's posts seemed like that, a push. But when he ended up saying he felt I was the most likely wolf, based on just what I had posted so far, that did not feel real to me, although I guess it was.

[dyachei]

gotta go in a minute but im kind of at

2 in vanta/gemma/wisdom with a possible wolf in ender if that doesn't end the game

I think vanta/gemma is more plausible than vanta/wisdom though

[nebjiamn]

talk to me about dya?

of the lower half of my poe, it feels like dya has been the one most active/convincing to get their reads pushed over the most and interested in the game (besides you but i kinda have you two lumped together for some reason)

i think the way they pushed on a logic preferred lunch over gh on day 3 is a good look because I feel like from a wolf's pov the logic mislunch on day 3 is way worse since there's a chance GH goes insane and posts out of his lunch the next day and the wolves lose that opportunity forever.

in other words i think wolves are/were unlikely to be on the anti-GH train day 3 in a meaningful way

(slightly related tangent to the above statement, but i am not including / giving wisdom towncred for pushing against the gh/logic worlds because a) wisdom kinda shrugyeeted GH after claiming he was one of her top villas and then came in yesterday disinterested in pushing back on the w!logic world despite also clearing him. doesn't make wisdom a lock wolf but it also aligns with how i think a wolf could be handling TMI)

my concerns boil down to a few things with dya:
a) my initial read on them day 1 was they were struggling to get into the thread a bit, somewhat similar to how visor struggled on day 2. i made a longer theoretical post about this earlier in the game but everyone has trouble re-entering thread/getting into the groove from time to time. this really felt that way on day 1 for dya, and i'm saying this regardless of their availability because i know that isn't relevant. its 100% more about the content/comfortability of when they posted rather than how often they did.

the caveat with this read is that dya has basically posted well since then IMO

b) i think dya's treatment of gh/logic on day 1 is kind of weird given where they were townreading (zack, myself). i feel like, even though dya obviously respect's GH's logic read, the way they go about shrugging off zacks read and just clearing logic felt weird and somewhat dismissive?


dya could definitely be a wolf. they are in the POE. i think they are town but not super confident. i don't see a ton of the wolf tells i associate with w!dya's posting either but i'm only a decent reader of them, so ymmv

[Hally]

thanks benneh

ig my concern with dya is that i’m not sure i buy the way they’re forming their reads and the angles they’ve been pushing but i realize that’s super vague and i’m not sure i can actually explain it well without going through their iso

tbh i need to iso all of vanta/dya/wisdom/ender really but isoing on phone on this site is such a pain because it doesn’t show the full posts unless you click on each one and doesn’t include older posts when there’s too many

we really take MU’s user interface for granted lol

[Hally]

dya can you flesh out your read on wisdom more?

is it just the visor spew stuff that makes you wolf read them or is there more to it?

[dyachei]

dya can you flesh out your read on wisdom more?

is it just the visor spew stuff that makes you wolf read them or is there more to it?

I need to reread her. I don't have much impression of her game this game which is a feels bad and I've questioned her thoughts at least the last few times she's been in thread. Some of it is based on spew though

It'll have to wait a bit though because I need to go pick up my car from the collision center and trying to iso on mobile sucks for this site

[Raskolnikov]

I know I shoudn't be doing it but I've been backreading Visor

i think there is a chance vanta black is very possibly a villager, i have been thinking about this for a bit now, but having played with them before (i actually wolfed with them fairly recently in a game @Raskolnikov had a great time in ) i remember their game as a wolf being... controlling isn't the word but they had words for every situation to move the thread in the direction they wanted and i feel like they have just flat out failed to do so here - i understand that this is a very new playerlist on a new site, new everything for them but i don't feel like they would suck so much as a wolf to resort to posting about avatar or dog names as a means of generating content or pushing the game forward. this may be my spiciest read tbh, but i get the feeling that they are moreso just overwhelmed with how to process this game and are trying to work around that, rather than failing to post genuine solving content because they are a wolf

ymmv

Very cautious slot treatment

now this is definitely not fair but look at this post comapred to anything gemmas posted this game imo

has gemma posted anything that sounds remotely like this sentence

"for the amount of effort she's put into her baudib v read (not just in this post) it's wishy washy slash noncommittal, and immediately after trying to convince herself/others baudib is town she moves to considering baudib partners namely visor (also despite not w reading visor) - and shortly afterwards asks visor to sell her on w!baudib. separately these are things that are whatever but together with each other they feel incoherent and dissonant imo"

i mean, just no, right? theres a flow to this sentence that the 90 random questions d1 just doesn't have and i get its d1 but theres more to the game thanthat

Very "trust me bro, that's solid s!?% I tell you" treatment of Gemma.

To me it does work more in a Gemma/Visor world. (cautious to avoid looking like TMI, blatant bus to spew Gemma villa when it's clear he is going off- need to check the timing).

Not sure how much this is too lvl1 for w!Visor and not me conf-biasing a read lol.


/off to find GH's post about Vanta w if Logic v and Vanta's post about me being a wolf with Visor (did I miss something here? Does this post exist lol)

[Raskolnikov]

Think I won't bother with Benneh ISO. (till F3 ) Each time I read their post they just feel villa to me

(note to self though, check Dya's treatment of Logic D1)

[nebjiamn]

I know I shoudn't be doing it but I've been backreading Visor




Very cautious slot treatment




Very "trust me bro, that's solid s!?% I tell you" treatment of Gemma.

To me it does work more in a Gemma/Visor world. (cautious to avoid looking like TMI, blatant bus to spew Gemma villa when it's clear he is going off- need to check the timing).

Not sure how much this is too lvl1 for w!Visor and not me conf-biasing a read lol.


/off to find GH's post about Vanta w if Logic v and Vanta's post about me being a wolf with Visor (did I miss something here? Does this post exist lol)

Q: how are you deciphering the difference between his gemma push and push on me? why is it more likely a bus on gemma and not on me etc

[nebjiamn]

Think I won't bother with Benneh ISO. (till F3 ) Each time I read their post they just feel villa to me

(note to self though, check Dya's treatment of Logic D1)

nevermind ignore my last post you're very obviously correct about my alignment

[Arctic]

hi

3 characters

[Raskolnikov]

Q: how are you deciphering the difference between his gemma push and push on me? why is it more likely a bus on gemma and not on me etc

From memory it didn't look like he was commited pushing you over, more like probing the thread about willingness. But I will have another look (I didn't read it live so perhaps I got the context wrong there)

I posted about Vanta/Gemma because they seem discussed topics and I just read these posts backreading and the difference was huge I felt like mentionning and getting feedbacks.

[Arctic]

Self protection huh

i would be salty if I was a wolf

am i stupid for thinking this sounds vaguely wolfclaimey

uh
anyway

I am always voting gemma until they claim and then I might still vote them anyway lmao

other than that I still want to kill wisdom, but will consider ender or vanta

Dya is like periphery of the poe but I townread them more than the above 4

Murska's role is weird.. but they're still town until there's a cc because of visor's role?

[nebjiamn]

thius is super wifomy but when visor re-entered thread he attached me and hally in a way, complaining that we should have been more ... reasonable? tactful? i forget what word he used, but basically that me and hally dumpstering him whiel he was gone was a bad look for both of us

wdyt the chances are visor re-enters the thread like that with 2 vs? he knows he's got a high likelihood of dying, right? does he try to pair a wolf in that list or does he just yolo it and semi push on 2 villas knowing itll be read for spew anyway? if gemma is a wolf and was indeed fae pushed by visor then does that mean hally is a villager for wifomy reasons?

this is a very dumb and in the weeds post i know but hmm

[nebjiamn]

am i stupid for thinking this sounds vaguely wolfclaimey

uh
anyway

I am always voting gemma until they claim and then I might still vote them anyway lmao

other than that I still want to kill wisdom, but will consider ender or vanta

Dya is like periphery of the poe but I townread them more than the above 4

Murska's role is weird.. but they're still town until there's a cc because of visor's role?

im aware enough as a wolf to not post like that but no you're not stupid for thinking it

from a hosting point of view though i just feel really bad for the wolves and thats NAI for me lol. not only did a mislunch candidate rand PR, they randed a fucked up version of one

[Murska]

So, day 1 top 2 wagons:

Syn (7) : Ender, Ladd, Jan, Raskolnikov, GH, Arctic, Murska
Logic (3) : Hally, Benneh, Vanta

What are the odds that literally nobody on either wagon was wolf?