17er Saints and Martyrs

[Hally]

This is code for I wanna get you elimmed anyway and don't care about refutations.

Gh also defended syn but really it was the way he dropped his shield of logic that had me concerned. He wasn't doing a ton of solving that made sense at the time. It makes more sense now but hindsight is 20/20.

Logix I made clear I have a hard time reading and was depending on gh but when gh rescinded and Zack had been w read ng him it made logic seem more wolfy. That mixed with all the contradictions everyone pointed out made we think it was him

i don’t think this actually fits with what happened itt?

wdym “the way gh dropped his shield”? if you mean the way he initially began shielding logic, you had like zero concern about it D1 when me/benneh/zack were practically begging you to be more skeptical. if you mean when gh said he wasn’t shielding logic anymore, that happened late D2 but you had already been wolf reading gh and had logic as your top wolf for the entire day up to that point, so idgi

rather than wolf casing people could i get some perspectives from others on who they would towncase

you need 5 villagers to win the game, 4 if you count yourself but if you can get to 5+you then even better

preferably we'd hit the wolf today but i'm a little more interested in talking about who we think the last 2 clears are because i feel like towncasing is going to be more reliable/maybe more valuable if we yeet a player and they end up flipping v here. their wolf reads are gonna be a bit cloudy anyway

well the first 4 villagers are easy fmpov: me/rask/arctic/you. ender would be my fifth

Town core for me is [Ender/Rask -> Hally/Benneh] leaving a PoE of [Arctic/Dya/Vanta]

@Wisdom why are you not sold on arctic? i don’t understand. he voted syn, he pushed visor and made sure he died, he wolf read gemma D1/D2. what else do you need?

alright

i hope you guys are right on ender

you don’t think the gemma spew read is valid? why?

She's been gunning for me all game and I'm a need miselim. Just read her iso yourself. I can't clear her because she's been posting about her reads and then casually mentions me as a wolf like...all game. Idk that I have time to get the receipts for you though. I think there are enough people v reading me that she's worried she can't do it closer to end game especially if she kills people like rask who are willing to vote for me.

That's why I can't clear her. I think it's most likely vanta or wisdom though

okay i’m sorry, i really don’t want to keep getting into these back and forths but i cannot let you do this revisionist history

i have not been gunning for you all game. D1 i had a mixed read on you that was really no more than a lean either way at different points. D2/D3 i basically wrote you off as town because i thought logic and gh were wolves and you clearly were not teamed with them. D4 i started getting concerned by your ender and wisdom reads but it was like a few posts. i have not been gunning for you at any point until today, let alone “all game.” i have not been casually mentioning you as a wolf all game. AT BEST i did D4/D5/today but i don’t even think i did D4, i just put you back in my PoE. your characterization of my treatment of you is genuinely absurd

also, “I think there are enough people v reading me that she's worried she can't do it closer to end game especially if she kills people like rask who are willing to vote for me” what? rask was town reading you until i dropped my wall

[Arctic]

well i dont really mind if someone hammers now, im gonna go look at some vanta scumgames in the mean time because that link rask posted didn't even work

[Raskolnikov]

well i dont really mind if someone hammers now, im gonna go look at some vanta scumgames in the mean time because that link rask posted didn't even work

town game https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums...15er-Test-Game

scum game https://www.giraffeboards.com/showthread.php?t=60126

[Arctic]

ok apparently they dont have any scumgames and i dont know how useful reading just towngames is going to be

[Wisdom]

When Arctic pushed Visor it was already clear Visor was going to die (from my pov at least).

Doesn't matter, I don't have Arctic in my PoE anymore anyway! He's likely town and I've been a bit silly ^^ But I mean, half the player list thinks I'm the last wolf so I guess we're all a bit silly :3

[nebjiamn]

you don’t think the gemma spew read is valid? why?

maybe it is, but im just concerned about clearing ender if its not in what everyojne basically deems the given poe of wis/vanta/dya

reading ender v for spew on day 7 or 8 seems like a dumb idea when his content hasn't been very villagery fmpov

its mostly just me struggling to find my 5th villager and worrying about the game state and people just shrugging off any investigation on him because of a read gemma made to open the game

[Hally]

I think it makes sense for hally to want to get dya out here first if she's mafia because dya is the most openly critical person of hally, vanta is the consensus yeet slot, and i'm kinda tunneled on wisdom

they might not go that hard but it's definitely the preferable elim for w!hally

the only reason dya has been critical of me is because i stopped town reading them lol

also you can believe this or not idc but there’s literally nobody i would rather push less if i was a wolf than dya. i would rather try my luck pushing ender or really like anything besides dya for what i hope are obvious reasons


still digesting it but good wall tbh

[Raskolnikov]

guys i found him!

btw Hally, you got it hella wrong. This is Visor during the whole D2:

[Hally]

i’m just going to point out that when dya iso’d wisdom earlier today they said they were convinced wisdom was a villager and now they’re voting wisdom lol

though tbh, i think from v!dya’s pov, they probably should think it’s wisdom from how fast wisdom was to drop dya so idk

[Wisdom]

I always find it weird that players tend to get suspected for listening to/sheeping others. It's a team game y'all!

With that I bid you a good night <3

[Hally]

maybe it is, but im just concerned about clearing ender if its not in what everyojne basically deems the given poe of wis/vanta/dya

reading ender v for spew on day 7 or 8 seems like a dumb idea when his content hasn't been very villagery fmpov

its mostly just me struggling to find my 5th villager and worrying about the game state and people just shrugging off any investigation on him because of a read gemma made to open the game

that’s… fair lol

tbh i’m usually pretty hesitant to put stock into spew especially late game and i think a lot of spew reads people make basically amount to reading tea leaves, but i do think some spew reads are usually reliable and “wolf town reads someone nobody else town reads D1 for thin reasoning = TMI” is one of them

ymmv though

[Raskolnikov]

gn Wis. gl us

[Hally]

idk what to do

i really want to know if i’m right on dya but ig it’s not happening and i’m not sure how i can make it clearer for people? like, their explanations for the stuff i raised just… don’t make any sense or fit with the actual sequence of events itt. i also feel like they’re treating my suspicion on them super disingenuously? the way they are interacting with it makes it sound like i’ve been blindly tunneling them the whole game when that’s not true at all. also i feel like they should know i wouldn’t push them like this as a wolf? iirc when i wolfed against them in the past i would try to pocket them/avoid pushing them because i was scared to draw their attention. and i feel like it should be obvious i clearly believe my read and that it’s coming from a place of genuine investigation but maybe it’s asking too much of them to view it that way

but my main reason for not wanting wisdom was that it didn’t feel like she was leaving options open enough to have a path to win as wolf and that’s kind of negated by her immediately going for dya today as soon as i cased them. also arctic’s point that her wolf meta is to be TMIy definitely fits with how she’s played this game and i think that the overall point of her having good reads but not seeming to act on them in a way that actually moved the game in a pro-town direction is def valid

wolfy hedge

[nebjiamn]

Just maj her and if wrong you get dya tomorrow

[Hally]

i don’t know if this is relevant or not but benneh made a post speculating about the last wolf role having some kind of KP or something, and i do think the last wolf role is probably pretty good just based on what’s flipped so far

for wolves we have had syn the backup, visor’s role which only matters if he gets lunched and even then is only a one shot strongman, and gemma the rolecop. i would be surprised given syn was a backup if his role was basically just to backup the rolecop? so i think the last wolf is definitely not just a goon

and looking at town PR’s, jan was like a combo watcher/tracker which seems quite good. ladd was either an IC that dies at EoD if they reveal ir a tree stump that lives for a day if they get nightkilled, which is okay but i guess depends on who rands it. and then murska was a passively self-protecting bodyguard, which is kind of insane lol.

so i would guess the last wolf role is actually quite strong? which could influence their willingness to bus or how the other wolves interacted with them depending on exactly what the role is

something to keep in mind ig

[Vanta Black]

i don’t know if this is relevant or not but benneh made a post speculating about the last wolf role having some kind of KP or something, and i do think the last wolf role is probably pretty good just based on what’s flipped so far

for wolves we have had syn the backup, visor’s role which only matters if he gets lunched and even then is only a one shot strongman, and gemma the rolecop. i would be surprised given syn was a backup if his role was basically just to backup the rolecop? so i think the last wolf is definitely not just a goon

and looking at town PR’s, jan was like a combo watcher/tracker which seems quite good. ladd was either an IC that dies at EoD if they reveal ir a tree stump that lives for a day if they get nightkilled, which is okay but i guess depends on who rands it. and then murska was a passively self-protecting bodyguard, which is kind of insane lol.

so i would guess the last wolf role is actually quite strong? which could influence their willingness to bus or how the other wolves interacted with them depending on exactly what the role is

something to keep in mind ig

Well yeah, but this isn't something we're gonna know if we're not the last wolf. I mean the only way we find out is to get 'em. If the concern is if the lasts woofie is some kind of KP bomb then idk, I'm willing to unvote and let the votes shuffle and then revote.

[Hally]

if people wanna maj i’m fine with it, i only have like two posts left anyway and seems like everyone made up their minds
@Arctic you can have the honor of hammering

[Vanta Black]

I don't think it's relevant though really, I mean, this is the last wolf, once they're gone we win.

(Full disclsoure, I took a muscle relaxer, I might not be thinking straight.)

[Hally]

Well yeah, but this isn't something we're gonna know if we're not the last wolf. I mean the only way we find out is to get 'em. If the concern is if the lasts woofie is some kind of KP bomb then idk, I'm willing to unvote and let the votes shuffle and then revote.

yeah it’s mostly pointless speculation

only time i think it actually becomes relevant is in F4 if it’s extra KP and sleeping loses the game but we can worry about that if we get there

[Arctic]

ok bye

vote: Wisdom

i think if this is a miss the consensus is to go dya/vanta in some order but like i dunno it feels wrong. i think i would consider ender in f3 more than hally, because as i was skimming the rest of the game i think hally must have been playing this game absurdly well to be mafia posting with a team getting boxed in like that

i guess we're always losing to benneh/rask and we won't have the nightkills to be able to find them from being still alive if it is one of them, in which case uhhh. i dunno i don't think there's much we could have done there

anyway glgl

[Totally not Taffy]

If we're talking neat then Whiskey > Rhum > Tequila

[Raskolnikov]

I don't think it's relevant though really, I mean, this is the last wolf, once they're gone we win.

(Full disclsoure, I took a muscle relaxer, I might not be thinking straight.)

Hally is hinting at the fact (Benneh did earlier) sleeping D8 after two MLs might not be the best idea. Hopefully we won't get there (and I won't be here to cry if that's the case lol)

[Totally not Taffy]

Final Vote Count

Wisdom (5) : Vanta, Dyachei, Raskolnikov, Benneh, Arctic
Vanta (1) : Wisdom

Haven't voted: Ender, Hally


Vote History

If you made a vote that wasn't counted, please link it to me on discord

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Vote: Vanta Black

vote: vanta black

Vote: Vanta

Vote: Dyachei

Vote: unvote

##vote Wisdom

unvote

Vote: Dya

Vote: vanta

Vote: wisdom

Vote: Wisdom

Vote: Wisdom

Vote: Vanta

vote: Wisdom

Post Counts

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

EoD5 post counts for easy math:

I will accept this early hammer as a birthday present of extra sleep!

[Totally not Taffy]

Sankta Klokhet was a blacksmith of phenomenal skill who was tasked by the Hierophant with creating a suit of armour that would keep her safe during the upcoming battle defending her temple from an army of demons. Santa Klokhet forged unwavering for five days and nights, reciting the tenets of her faith. On the sixth day she laid the final hand on her creation and collapsed from exhaustion. The suit was dull, and had an oily sheen to it, and the Hierophant noticed that it seemed to predict her movements and amplify her swings as she strode into battle. She and the other priestesses fought bravely, but the demons kept coming, and for the longest time the battle seemed undecided, but of course the humans' strength must run out eventually. After five hours of brutal battle, Sankta Klokhet finally came to, rushed up the steps to the bell tower, and rung the tenor bell. The armour she had created reverberated with the sound and dazzled the demons with a bright holy light, allowing the clerics to overpower them at last.

Wisdom was a Town Saint (VT)

Remember your night actions!

[Totally not Taffy]

Saint Turbean was one of the great orators of his time. When he spoke, all listened, and his advice never went unheeded. Then, his area was hit with droughts and successive crop failures, and starvation threatened. Saint Turbean prayed to the Gods of the Harvest, promising to give up all he had to save his people, and pleaded so ardently that they could not but take pity. From that day on, fields miraculously grew without needing to be tended, and Saint Turbean held his tongue. Whenever one of his fellow villagers asked him for his opinion, he would devoutly bow his head and keep quiet. None understood the purpose of his silence, and in time his former influence was quite forgotten, but he knew and was content.

Benneh was a Town Saint (VT)

You will no longer surprise me, I have flavour for all of you muahahaha!

[Totally not Taffy]

Living Players: Vanta, Dyachei, Raskolnikov, Ender, Hally, Arctic (6)

[dyachei]

I've been thinking about it and I don't want to end up in f3 so if you're concerned about me you should probably vote me out now

[Raskolnikov]

Sorry Wis, RIP Benneh.

Vote: Vanta

[Raskolnikov]

I've been thinking about it and I don't want to end up in f3 so if you're concerned about me you should probably vote me out now

Well, I'd rather be with you in F3 than Vanta, alea jacta est.

[Raskolnikov]

I am ready to unvote and assess all slot (prolly not immediatly, but in the next 12 hours). It's just Vanta has been POEed for a long time now and I am prolly not making my mind on her slot so I'd rather chop her now than cry l8r (been there already smh)

actually, unvote still more reasonable