Obama; New Type of Hope, Same Type of Stupid (Gun Control)

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I can't believe you just compared a leisure forum, to a firearm. That was awesome. Leisure forums can't be used to kill innocent lives (I think). I could live without leisure forums.

See, this is why the argument is going in circles.

You said that the firearms should be banned because they weren't needed.

Atpg pointed out that you can't ban things because they aren't needed. That isn't some dumb argument, it's putting you back at square one. Your reply is that it's ok to ban things that aren't needed if they can kill you. Fine, now atpg can point out the zillions of other objects that can kill people effectively and aren't needed and you'll come up with some new reasoning. It isn't a ridiculous comparison on his part it's a poorly thought out or expressed argument on yours.

[Jolt]

See, this is why the argument is going in circles.

You said that the firearms should be banned because they weren't needed.

Atpg pointed out that you can't ban things because they aren't needed. That isn't some dumb argument, it's putting you back at square one. Your reply is that it's ok to ban things that aren't needed if they can kill you. Fine, now atpg can point out the zillions of other objects that can kill people effectively and aren't needed and you'll come up with some new reasoning. It isn't a ridiculous comparison on his part it's a poorly thought out or expressed argument on yours.

Thing is, guns kill effectively and people use them to kill effectively (Since there is no other purpose for weapons). I'm not so sure about the other zillion objects.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

What, you actually think most kills are from people who go off specifically to the black market to buy a gun to kill someone? Look at the Columbine Massacre, those guys bought their guns legally. I tried to look for numbers, but I have no clue where such American statistics lie. You can kill with a registered gun and not be found out.

I absolutely think that most kills are with unregistered firearms. Criminals do the majority of killing with firearms. Why would a criminal register himself with the police? And sure, you can kill with a registered gun and not be found out, but it really hurts your chances.

What are they used for?

Hunting, sport shooting, home defense, collecting, owning them because you think they're cool.

Why do the USA have the highest death percentage by firearms if most firearms aren't used for that specific purpose they are built for?

Do you know how many guns we have? You refuse to find statistics but you claim we have this or that death rate. That said, the far majority of firearms in the US are not used for murder.

Not again... Ending this car comparison stuff, I'd guarantee you 90% of the deaths caused by a car are by accident. What about 90% of the deaths caused by firearms? Why the comparison? The government needs to do something about intentional kills. Heck, even the cars are modified so they are not as lethal as they are.
And I didn't say they outweigh anything. Dunno where that came from.

Thing is, guns kill effectively and people use them to kill effectively (Since there is no other purpose for weapons). I'm not so sure about the other zillion objects.

Cars kill quite effectively, as the numbers show. More effectively than firearms, in fact.

I don´t want a gun, I don´t need a gun, and I don´t think a gun would contribute to my safety or those around me, quite the contrary.

No proponent of firearm ownership believes you should be forced to own one, to my knowledge.

[Jolt]

I absolutely think that most kills are with unregistered firearms. Criminals do the majority of killing with firearms. Why would a criminal register himself with the police? And sure, you can kill with a registered gun and not be found out, but it really hurts your chances.

I don't. If you can find the numbers I didn't manage to find, I'd give you reason. You aren't a criminal until you commit a crime. It wouldn't be hard to imagine myself in a situation where I legally buy a normal registered gun, and in some uncontrolable rage situation (Say some whacko murdered my entire familly to steal a car and I just so happen to know where he was taking the car to) and I grab my gun and go after him to kill him. In the beginning I didn't buy the gun with that specific motive. Thus how "criminals" use registered guns.

Hunting, sport shooting, home defense, collecting, owning them because you think they're cool.

Since I don't know personally how the gun culture is in the USA, I'll just have to presume you're right.

Do you know how many guns we have? You refuse to find statistics but you claim we have this or that death rate. That said, the far majority of firearms in the US are not used for murder.

I didn't refuse. I tried but I just couldn't get what I was looking for since I didn't know where to look. I wasn't gonna spend two hours looking for some numbers about a foreign country's registrated weapons percentage in all homicides, especially when most graphics talk about the total of murders or give or divisions when characterizing the total murder rate, to prove I'm right.

Cars kill quite effectively, as the numbers show. More effectively than firearms, in fact.

...*facepalm* I'm not sure if you understood my point, but I won't even try this time.

Anyways, already made my opinion crystal clear. I find useless the legalization of assault rifles as they bring no security for possible more insecurity, when compared to ordinary pistols and firearms.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

From the FBI, homicides in the US in '05 was ~14k, 10k involving firearms.

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/05cius/offens...rtable_08.html

According to a survey in '04, there are 93 firearms per 100 Americans. (Obviously that doesn't mean that 93/100 Americans own firearms).

http://injuryprevention.bmj.com/cgi/...t/full/13/1/15

Lets say both figures are right, and have held basically stable until today. There are ~305M Americans.

So let's say there are .93 * 305M = 283,000,000 firearms in the US (rounding down a bit).

Let's also say that every firearm-related murder was done with a separate firearm.

10,000 firearm homicides / 283,000,000 firearms = .000035 = .0035 % of firearms were used for homicide.

Are 99.0065% of firearms being used incorrectly?

[Jolt]

Jesus, 10000 dead in a single year? That's huge. Of course most weaponry aren't being used to kill, but they are used to kill. Noone expected anything near 1% of USA population killed by firearms and 10000 is a gargantuan number nonetheless. Yet don't forget it isn't just about murder, it is about wounds and violent crime. As far as only murder numbers go, 10000 kills in 365 days is brutal. That's 27 people per day, rounded down.

[Major Robert Dump]

Yeah but most of those are in Baltimore, St Louis and Lawton, Oklahoma, so it's okay.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Jesus, 10000 dead in a single year? That's huge. Of course most weaponry aren't being used to kill, but they are used to kill. Noone expected anything near 1% of USA population killed by firearms and 10000 is a gargantuan number nonetheless. Yet don't forget it isn't just about murder, it is about wounds and violent crime. As far as only murder numbers go, 10000 kills in 365 days is brutal. That's 27 people per day, rounded down.

It depends how you look at the number. How many die in, say...car accidents () every year?