The Complete EDB Guide - discussion

[Dol Guldur]

I see, now that you mention it I think I remember reading that before. I though it only applied to building_present(_min_level) requirements, right?

No, it refers to HRs too hence the use of such names as "not_here"

[CaesarVincens]

No, it refers to HRs too hence the use of such names as "not_here"

Strange, because I use "not HR x" and the building shows up. I'll post some screen shots when I can.

[CaesarVincens]

Ok, I did a quick bit of testing. I found that the format "building requires x and not hidden_resource y" would not show up in the building browser, but "building requires x and hidden_resource dummyHR or not hidden_resource y" would show up. Functionality appears to be the same for both formats. This did not work for building level requirements, but a dummy building might work in that case, in analogy to the dummy HR.

[lim_lucky]

Oh btw, you can make it look a bit more easy by simply using:
upgrades
{
won1_god2 requires factions { all, } and hidden_resource not_here
}

Although this reply concerning the statement is a bit late, its better than nothing. I have found that the upgrade code provided by PatricianS above seems to work, even if the main building lines does not have all the factions, i.e. using the above example, the building line shown below will still function and no error is reported:
won1_god2 requires factions { romans_ julii, } ;and other conditions

The only problem is that the building may not appear on the building browser because the conditions may not suit the format as stated by CaesarVincens below:

Ok, I did a quick bit of testing. I found that the format "building requires x and not hidden_resource y" would not show up in the building browser, but "building requires x and hidden_resource dummyHR or not hidden_resource y" would show up. Functionality appears to be the same for both formats. This did not work for building level requirements, but a dummy building might work in that case, in analogy to the dummy HR.

Using a dummy building in the upgrades should provide similar benefits to the coding above (regarding culture break, building gap n stuff in my earlier post) AND will allow the 'building' to be present in the building browser.

upgrades
{
;GENUINE upgrade lines - it is better for hidden resources to be used here
building_name requires factions { all, } and hidden_resource x and not hidden_resource y ;and blah blah
;to allow building browser to display buildings EVERYWHERE irregardless of eligibility I guess - I view this option as a better alternative than not having a building browser at all.
building_name requires factions { all, } and building_present_min_level dummy dummy1 ;or building_present dummy depending on the building constraits, as dummy 1 can be any vacant and unreachable level in any building tree like the smiths, mines or roads or whatever.
}
;Actual building line - it is advisable to use building_present/_min_level here to allow players to see requirements
building_name requires factions { all, } and building_present_min_level market market

Again, pertaining to upgrade coding to display buildings in the building browser,
I am not sure whether a dummy hidden_resource works... i.e.
upgrades
{
;to prevent building gap error ...
won1_god2 requires factions { all, } and hidden_resource not_here
}

[CaesarVincens]

Could you explain what you mean by - "building requires x and not hidden_resource y" would not show up in the building browser, but "building requires x and hidden_resource dummyHR or not hidden_resource y" would show up. - I'm wondering what x is, is it a building / HR?

I think you figured this out, but by 'x' I meant any building. "dummyHR" just means a hidden resource that isn't used in descr_regions.

Although this reply concerning the statement is a bit late, its better than nothing. I have found that the upgrade code provided by PatricianS above seems to work, even if the main building lines does not have all the factions, i.e. using the above example, the building line shown below will still function and no error is reported:
won1_god2 requires factions { romans_ julii, } ;and other conditions

The only problem is that the building may not appear on the building browser because the conditions may not suit the format as stated by CaesarVincens below:



Using a dummy building in the upgrades should provide similar benefits to the coding above (regarding culture break, building gap n stuff in my earlier post) AND will allow the 'building' to be present in the building browser.

From my quick testing, a dummy building did not function in the same way as a dummy hidden resource, that is it did not cause the building to appear in the browser.

upgrades
{
;GENUINE upgrade lines - it is better for hidden resources to be used here
building_name requires factions { all, } and hidden_resource x and not hidden_resource y ;and blah blah
;to allow building browser to display buildings EVERYWHERE irregardless of eligibility I guess - I view this option as a better alternative than not having a building browser at all.
building_name requires factions { all, } and building_present_min_level dummy dummy1 ;or building_present dummy depending on the building constraits, as dummy 1 can be any vacant and unreachable level in any building tree like the smiths, mines or roads or whatever.
}
;Actual building line - it is advisable to use building_present/_min_level here to allow players to see requirements
building_name requires factions { all, } and building_present_min_level market market

I haven't done any testing with using requirements in both the upgrade line and building line. My thought is that it might mess things up, otherwise if more generic requirements are used it might work. Let me know if you've tested it and anything is contrary to my thoughts. I like using a dummy building in another line so it shows up in the browser. I'll do some testing with that and see what I can get done.

Again, pertaining to upgrade coding to display buildings in the building browser,
I am not sure whether a dummy hidden_resource works... i.e.
upgrades
{
;to prevent building gap error ...
won1_god2 requires factions { all, } and hidden_resource not_here
}

A dummy hidden resource would prevent the building from showing up unless there is an alternate requirement, even a negative one. However, it will maintain the illusion that any faction could build that level and prevent the gap error.

It's amazing to think that RTW has been out for so long an this is still very new information!

[lim_lucky]

I haven't done any testing with using requirements in both the upgrade line and building line. My thought is that it might mess things up, otherwise if more generic requirements are used it might work. Let me know if you've tested it and anything is contrary to my thoughts. I like using a dummy building in another line so it shows up in the browser. I'll do some testing with that and see what I can get done.
It's amazing to think that RTW has been out for so long an this is still very new information!

I just realized that I never tested the validity (regarding building logic/whether the building is actually buildable) of my code before posting the double requirements in both upgrade and building lines. This is mainly because I worked solely on the upgrade lines previously until I read your post regarding the building browser and then I realized a big disadvantage with it. So I just transferred all building_present requirements to the building_lines, leaving hidden_resource in upgrade lines, but I failed to test it logically although I only checked the building browser because I was "focusing" on it.

Hence, I did a single, quick and simple test, =D. Not rigorous, but the result is reassuring so I will just "accept" that it works while I continue modding...

;...usual codes
upgrades
{
building_name requires hidden_resource rome
}
}
building_name requires factions { romans_julii, } and building_present_min_level core_building proconsuls_palace
{
;...usual codes

The building will only be buildable at places with hidden_resource rome, BUT the building will also be available in building browsers of all cities (regardless of availability of hidden_resource rome) although it cannot be built.

A dummy hidden resource would prevent the building from showing up unless there is an alternate requirement, even a negative one. However, it will maintain the illusion that any faction could build that level and prevent the gap error.

This seems to be some "exceptions" especially when factions { all, } is used throughout the building lines, I am not sure why. I have posted the roads as an example, and all the roads happen to appear on the browser except for highways2, which happens not to have factions { all, } attached to the upgrade or building lines.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

building hinterland_roads
{
levels roads paved_roads highways roads1 roads2 highways2
{
roads requires factions { all, }
{
 capability
 {
 road_level 0
 }
 construction  1
 cost  1200
 settlement_min town
 upgrades
 {
; paved_roads requires factions { romans_julii, carthage, egypt, epirus, greek_cities, macedon, seleucid, thrace, armenia, pontus, britons, dacia, gauls, germans, romans_brutii, romans_scipii, spain, parthia, slave, }
; roads1 requires factions { romans_julii, carthage, egypt, epirus, greek_cities, macedon, seleucid, thrace, armenia, pontus, britons, dacia, gauls, germans, romans_brutii, romans_scipii, spain, parthia, slave, } and hidden_resource sc or hidden_resource yu
; roads1 requires factions { romans_julii, carthage, egypt, epirus, greek_cities, macedon, seleucid, thrace, armenia, pontus, britons, dacia, gauls, germans, romans_brutii, romans_scipii, spain, parthia, slave, } and not hidden_resource sc and not hidden_resource yu
; roads1 requires factions { scythia, numidia, }
;to test
 paved_roads requires factions { romans_julii, } and hidden_resource rome
 paved_roads requires factions { all, } and hidden_resource not_here
 }
}
;to try
paved_roads requires factions { all, } and building_present_min_level core_building proconsuls_palace
{
 capability
 {
 road_level 1
 }
 construction  3
 cost  2400
 settlement_min large_town
 upgrades
 {
;(11)civ
 highways requires factions { romans_julii, carthage, egypt, epirus, greek_cities, macedon, seleucid, thrace, pontus, armenia, parthia, }
 roads2 requires factions { romans_julii, carthage, egypt, epirus, greek_cities, macedon, seleucid, thrace, pontus, armenia, parthia, } and building_present_min_level core_building imperial_palace and building_present_min_level market forum
;(7)barb civ
 highways requires factions { britons, dacia, spain, } and building_present_min_level core_building imperial_palace
 highways requires factions { germans, } and building_present_min_level agee agee3
 highways requires factions { romans_brutii, } and building_present_min_level agee agee4
 highways requires factions { gauls, romans_scipii, } and building_present_min_level agee agee6
 roads2 requires factions { britons, dacia, germans, gauls, romans_brutii, romans_scipii, spain, } and building_present_min_level core_building imperial_palace and building_present_min_level market forum
 highways requires factions { all, } and hidden_resource not_here
;(2)nomad
 roads2 requires factions { scythia, numidia, } and building_present_min_level core_building imperial_palace
 highways requires factions { all, } and hidden_resource not_here
 }
}
highways requires factions { all, }
{
 capability
 {
 road_level 2
 }
 construction  4
 cost  4800
 settlement_min city
 upgrades
 {
 highways2 requires factions { romans_julii, } and not hidden_resource sc and not hidden_resource yu and not hidden_resource desert
 roads1 requires factions { all, } and hidden_resource not_here
 }
}
roads1 requires factions { all, } and resource copper or resource iron or resource lead or resource tin or resource gold or resource silver or resource amber or resource incense or resource wine or resource marble or resource grain or resource silk
{
 capability
 {
 road_level 1
 }
 construction  9
 cost  1200
 settlement_min city
 upgrades
 {
;(11)civ
 roads2 requires factions { romans_julii, carthage, egypt, epirus, greek_cities, macedon, seleucid, thrace, pontus, armenia, parthia, }
;(7)barb civ
 roads2 requires factions { britons, dacia, spain, } and building_present_min_level core_building imperial_palace
 roads2 requires factions { germans, } and building_present_min_level agee agee3
 roads2 requires factions { germans, } and building_present_min_level core_building imperial_palace and building_present_min_level market forum and not building_present_min_level agee agee3
 roads2 requires factions { romans_brutii, } and building_present_min_level agee agee4
 roads2 requires factions { romans_brutii, } and building_present_min_level core_building imperial_palace and building_present_min_level market forum and not building_present_min_level agee agee4
 roads2 requires factions { gauls, romans_scipii, } and building_present_min_level agee agee6
 roads2 requires factions { gauls, romans_scipii, } and building_present_min_level core_building imperial_palace and building_present_min_level market forum and not building_present_min_level agee agee6
;(2)nomad
 roads2 requires factions { scythia, numidia, } and building_present_min_level core_building imperial_palace and building_present_min_level market nomadforum and building_present_min_level health doctor
 roads2 requires factions { all, } and hidden_resource not_here
 }
}
roads2 requires factions { all, } and resource copper or resource iron or resource lead or resource tin or resource gold or resource silver or resource amber or resource incense or resource wine or resource marble or resource grain or resource silk
{
 capability
 {
 road_level 2
 }
 construction  12
 cost  2400
 settlement_min large_city
 upgrades
 {
 highways2 requires factions { romans_julii, } and not hidden_resource sc and not hidden_resource yu and not hidden_resource desert
 }
}
highways2 requires factions { romans_julii, } and building_present_min_level market forum and building_present_min_level academic ludus_magnus and building_present_min_level age age6
{
 capability
 {
 road_level 3
 }
 construction  8
 cost  9600
 settlement_min huge_city
 upgrades
 {
 }
}
}
plugins
{
}
}

I have some questions:
1) Regarding road_level, I used road_level 3 and it "works" although there is no visible effects (i.e. road does not change) and there is no error reported - has anyone encountered an error or a use for road_level 3 before?
2) There is also no bonus in trade or income whenever road is upgraded (i.e. road_level 1 to road_level 2, is that just my game acting wierd or its the norm?
3) According to the guide:
Trade_fleet, mine_resource, road_level, and the games, races and the four defensive effects carry no stand-alone "bonus" in the EDB file.
what is the meaning of no stand-alone bonus? Does it mean that trade_fleet bonus 1 is a faulty or ineffective code?

[CaesarVincens]

I just realized that I never tested the validity (regarding building logic/whether the building is actually buildable) of my code before posting the double requirements in both upgrade and building lines. This is mainly because I worked solely on the upgrade lines previously until I read your post regarding the building browser and then I realized a big disadvantage with it. So I just transferred all building_present requirements to the building_lines, leaving hidden_resource in upgrade lines, but I failed to test it logically although I only checked the building browser because I was "focusing" on it.

Hence, I did a single, quick and simple test, =D. Not rigorous, but the result is reassuring so I will just "accept" that it works while I continue modding...

I'll do some testing myself as well when I get a chance, but it is good that this works.

;...usual codes
upgrades
{
building_name requires hidden_resource rome
}
}
building_name requires factions { romans_julii, } and building_present_min_level core_building proconsuls_palace
{
;...usual codes

The building will only be buildable at places with hidden_resource rome, BUT the building will also be available in building browsers of all cities (regardless of availability of hidden_resource rome) although it cannot be built.

This seems to be some "exceptions" especially when factions { all, } is used throughout the building lines, I am not sure why. I have posted the roads as an example, and all the roads happen to appear on the browser except for highways2, which happens not to have factions { all, } attached to the upgrade or building lines.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

building hinterland_roads
{
levels roads paved_roads highways roads1 roads2 highways2
{
roads requires factions { all, }
{
 capability
 {
 road_level 0
 }
 construction  1
 cost  1200
 settlement_min town
 upgrades
 {
; paved_roads requires factions { romans_julii, carthage, egypt, epirus, greek_cities, macedon, seleucid, thrace, armenia, pontus, britons, dacia, gauls, germans, romans_brutii, romans_scipii, spain, parthia, slave, }
; roads1 requires factions { romans_julii, carthage, egypt, epirus, greek_cities, macedon, seleucid, thrace, armenia, pontus, britons, dacia, gauls, germans, romans_brutii, romans_scipii, spain, parthia, slave, } and hidden_resource sc or hidden_resource yu
; roads1 requires factions { romans_julii, carthage, egypt, epirus, greek_cities, macedon, seleucid, thrace, armenia, pontus, britons, dacia, gauls, germans, romans_brutii, romans_scipii, spain, parthia, slave, } and not hidden_resource sc and not hidden_resource yu
; roads1 requires factions { scythia, numidia, }
;to test
 paved_roads requires factions { romans_julii, } and hidden_resource rome
 paved_roads requires factions { all, } and hidden_resource not_here
 }
}
;to try
paved_roads requires factions { all, } and building_present_min_level core_building proconsuls_palace
{
 capability
 {
 road_level 1
 }
 construction  3
 cost  2400
 settlement_min large_town
 upgrades
 {
;(11)civ
 highways requires factions { romans_julii, carthage, egypt, epirus, greek_cities, macedon, seleucid, thrace, pontus, armenia, parthia, }
 roads2 requires factions { romans_julii, carthage, egypt, epirus, greek_cities, macedon, seleucid, thrace, pontus, armenia, parthia, } and building_present_min_level core_building imperial_palace and building_present_min_level market forum
;(7)barb civ
 highways requires factions { britons, dacia, spain, } and building_present_min_level core_building imperial_palace
 highways requires factions { germans, } and building_present_min_level agee agee3
 highways requires factions { romans_brutii, } and building_present_min_level agee agee4
 highways requires factions { gauls, romans_scipii, } and building_present_min_level agee agee6
 roads2 requires factions { britons, dacia, germans, gauls, romans_brutii, romans_scipii, spain, } and building_present_min_level core_building imperial_palace and building_present_min_level market forum
 highways requires factions { all, } and hidden_resource not_here
;(2)nomad
 roads2 requires factions { scythia, numidia, } and building_present_min_level core_building imperial_palace
 highways requires factions { all, } and hidden_resource not_here
 }
}
highways requires factions { all, }
{
 capability
 {
 road_level 2
 }
 construction  4
 cost  4800
 settlement_min city
 upgrades
 {
 highways2 requires factions { romans_julii, } and not hidden_resource sc and not hidden_resource yu and not hidden_resource desert
 roads1 requires factions { all, } and hidden_resource not_here
 }
}
roads1 requires factions { all, } and resource copper or resource iron or resource lead or resource tin or resource gold or resource silver or resource amber or resource incense or resource wine or resource marble or resource grain or resource silk
{
 capability
 {
 road_level 1
 }
 construction  9
 cost  1200
 settlement_min city
 upgrades
 {
;(11)civ
 roads2 requires factions { romans_julii, carthage, egypt, epirus, greek_cities, macedon, seleucid, thrace, pontus, armenia, parthia, }
;(7)barb civ
 roads2 requires factions { britons, dacia, spain, } and building_present_min_level core_building imperial_palace
 roads2 requires factions { germans, } and building_present_min_level agee agee3
 roads2 requires factions { germans, } and building_present_min_level core_building imperial_palace and building_present_min_level market forum and not building_present_min_level agee agee3
 roads2 requires factions { romans_brutii, } and building_present_min_level agee agee4
 roads2 requires factions { romans_brutii, } and building_present_min_level core_building imperial_palace and building_present_min_level market forum and not building_present_min_level agee agee4
 roads2 requires factions { gauls, romans_scipii, } and building_present_min_level agee agee6
 roads2 requires factions { gauls, romans_scipii, } and building_present_min_level core_building imperial_palace and building_present_min_level market forum and not building_present_min_level agee agee6
;(2)nomad
 roads2 requires factions { scythia, numidia, } and building_present_min_level core_building imperial_palace and building_present_min_level market nomadforum and building_present_min_level health doctor
 roads2 requires factions { all, } and hidden_resource not_here
 }
}
roads2 requires factions { all, } and resource copper or resource iron or resource lead or resource tin or resource gold or resource silver or resource amber or resource incense or resource wine or resource marble or resource grain or resource silk
{
 capability
 {
 road_level 2
 }
 construction  12
 cost  2400
 settlement_min large_city
 upgrades
 {
 highways2 requires factions { romans_julii, } and not hidden_resource sc and not hidden_resource yu and not hidden_resource desert
 }
}
highways2 requires factions { romans_julii, } and building_present_min_level market forum and building_present_min_level academic ludus_magnus and building_present_min_level age age6
{
 capability
 {
 road_level 3
 }
 construction  8
 cost  9600
 settlement_min huge_city
 upgrades
 {
 }
}
}
plugins
{
}
}

Are you saying that the highways2 doesn't show up in the romans_julii browser? Try adding your dummy hidden resource first. Like so: highways2 requires factions { romans_julii, } and hidden_resource dummyHR or not hidden_resource sc and not hidden_resource yu and not hidden_resource desert. If I'm correct, that should show up.

I have some questions:
1) Regarding road_level, I used road_level 3 and it "works" although there is no visible effects (i.e. road does not change) and there is no error reported - has anyone encountered an error or a use for road_level 3 before?
2) There is also no bonus in trade or income whenever road is upgraded (i.e. road_level 1 to road_level 2, is that just my game acting wierd or its the norm?
3) According to the guide:
Trade_fleet, mine_resource, road_level, and the games, races and the four defensive effects carry no stand-alone "bonus" in the EDB file.
what is the meaning of no stand-alone bonus? Does it mean that trade_fleet bonus 1 is a faulty or ineffective code?

1) If I remember rightly, road_levels above 2 should increase the trade bonus but do nothing else (I remember testing this after downloading a mod which used higher level roads).
2) Increases in road level should increase trade, but you have to make sure you are checking it correctly. Open the city details scroll, queue up the building and there should be the predicted changes. Make sure that region has tradeable resources and all that.
3) That just means you don't need to use the word bonus with those effects. Unlike say happiness_bonus.