KOTF OOC Thread

[OverKnight]

econ21 has been at the game?! I have visions of triple gold death stacks descending upon us as France burns. I must find the nearest mountaintop to hold of the German hordes.

Time to reevaluate opening strategy.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Zim - One thing you should remember when you teleport avatars - Never teleport an avatar who is in a settlement! I know it's obvious but in WotB more than once I forgot to move them out from the settlement and they just disappeared after that.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Zim - One thing you should remember when you teleport avatars - Never teleport an avatar who is in a settlement! I know it's obvious but in WotB more than once I forgot to move them out from the settlement and they just disappeared after that.

That would be bad considering that every single avatar is in a settlement currently.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Wow, it didn't take long for us to have our first bar fight. I consider this an excellent sign.

[deguerra]

You must admit he's an annoying little twerp

[GeneralHankerchief]

Considering that Raynaud is probably closer in personality to Thiery, I admit nothing.

[Andres]

You must admit he's an annoying little twerp

Hey, he's everything I ever wanted to be!

[Zim]

Thanks for the heads-up. I likely wouldn't have noticed until I'd moved a few and went to check on them.

Zim - One thing you should remember when you teleport avatars - Never teleport an avatar who is in a settlement! I know it's obvious but in WotB more than once I forgot to move them out from the settlement and they just disappeared after that.

[AussieGiant]

I haven't seen the save OK.

Is it bad, or just grim?

[TinCow]

As far as the tournament, how do people feel about participants getting the "Tourney Entrant" trait as stated? It fits well roleplaying, and gives a small award for participation. Do people think it's unfair to dread avatars (as they can reject the trait, but then get nothing)?

I can't speak for others, but I would like the trait. I base my roleplaying on the actual trait names and descriptions, not the ranks of dread/chivalry.

[AussieGiant]

I also will accept the trait.

[econ21]

Ignoramus - knights can't run for Seneschal, I am afraid. That rule could be very restrictive, depending on how quickly we expand, but it probably is fitting for the first few terms at least.

[Ramses II CP]

I can't speak for others, but I would like the trait. I base my roleplaying on the actual trait names and descriptions, not the ranks of dread/chivalry.

Ditto that, I actually said essentially the same thing in a pm to Zim before I read this.

[OverKnight]

I haven't seen the save OK.

Is it bad, or just grim?

Nah, it's not Cataclysm bad. Our neighbors are probably stronger, but Metz looks the same.

BTW fog of war should be turned back on for the next save.

I can't believe econ spawned the Mongols so soon.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Edit: Anyone else miss being Orthodox and not giving a fig about what the Pope thought, or having him within sword's reach? Ah "vetoing" Popes, that takes me back.

[Ramses II CP]

Nah, it's not Cataclysm bad. Our neighbors are probably stronger, but Metz looks the same.

BTW fog of war should be turned back on for the next save.

I can't believe econ spawned the Mongols so soon.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Edit: Anyone else miss being Orthodox and not giving a fig about what the Pope thought, or having him within sword's reach? Ah "vetoing" Popes, that takes me back.

I have a strong feeling the Pope is going to get more than one 'veto' in this game too. I, for one, think that's the easy route. Maybe I'll make Louis a strict Catholic (in public) and not allow any whack-a-Pope quests during his reign?

Presuming he makes it to his reign anyway...

[Ituralde]

GH is playing a pious character?

Ahh... the memories...

[Rowan]

I'm away for one, ONE day and the whole place explodes! Besides I was sightseeing a medieval castle (with some nice 18th century earthen additions for all the Empire players). I'll never have enough time to read all that...

Two, the tournament feedback thread reminded me of a suggestion I've been wanting to make: George R. R. Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire series of books. Even though they are in a fantasy setting the books really concentrate on the inner politics and machinations of a medieval state. And, they've got proper medieval tourneys with huge melees.

[AussieGiant]

Bloody hell.

Talk about buffed...that's an understatement.

We're going to be cooling our heels nicely for awhile.

And can we turn off the fog of war please. It's like having an AWACS plane 1000 years before they were available.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-3_Sentry

[Marcus Agrippa]

Well I guess my avater is going to have to stay put and hope we're not attacked.
I can see someone using my guy as heavy cav and charging english armoured sergents (which england don't normaly get) and maybe getting him killed (not on purpose).

Well I guess it's heroic victories for us or heroic deaths.
What happens to the extra generals?

Also will the AI of sicily attack toulose because they've tryed in every other game I've played as the french?

[AussieGiant]

All extra generals will be killed off.

And just a point.

Who's going to post the Edicts thread and the Senschal voting thread?

[Zim]

A fog of war free save for everyone.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local...id=199&id=4925

In LTC the English do indeed get armoured sergeants.

I wouldn't worry about those armies, I know a couple players here who could probably take them with a general and a peasant unit. Last game saw single generals going off to conquer settlements at the start and I was hoping it would be a little harder this time. Econ21 assured me he calculated AI armies specifically to make up a bit for our giant horde of generals. I suppose I could have just recruited 20 or so generals for every faction, though. Hmmm...

Extra generals will be killed off, and I will be posting the voting threads when the Council closes.

Also, happy Birthday TheFlax!

[econ21]

Last game saw single generals going off to conquer settlements at the start and I was hoping it would be a little harder this time.

Yes, rushing the AI will soon make the game unchallenging. Lusted recommends players fight only one AI faction in the first 50 turns, to give the AI a chance to build up and field good armies.

Econ21 assured me he calculated AI armies specifically to make up a bit for our giant horde of generals. I suppose I could have just recruited 20 or so generals for every faction, though.

For the information of the other players, I tried to give the AI troops of roughly the same purchase cost as our 20 or so RBGs, scaled somewhat so that smaller factions got less and larger ones got more. However, I figured just giving them knights might not be the best way to balance things, if this mod makes spearmen beat knights. So instead, I gave them a mix of units - usually knights, armoured spears and swords. The English in France got a little more, as they are cut off from easy reinforcement and tend to do daft things. Most are dispersed across settlements so don't expect to see any uber stacks immediately - just a leavening of the AI militia with the odd decent troop type.




PS: Zim, please can Hermant start in Paris? thanks

[Zim]

Econ: I was just joking about the twenty generals for every faction thing. That'd be horrible, bad for rp and likely resulting in quite a few early character deaths since a stack of them would be relatively forgiving to the poor battle AI.

Hermant=Paris. Got it. Console work starting tonight.

[Ituralde]

Paris for Simon de Montpierre as well.

[Marcus Agrippa]

Could you move me to Rheims if The king aproves the order marching east please.

[econ21]

Sorry to be a pain, but it sounds like Metz is going to be the first objective of the Order, so could I start in Reims instead of Paris? I think Ituralde may also want to start there now.

Hermant=Paris. Got it. Console work starting tonight.

[econ21]

I know a couple players here who could probably take them with a general and a peasant unit.

This idea prompts a number of thoughts which probably don't need saying, but I want to vent so here goes. It's not my place or anyone else's to tell other players how to fight battles, but here's how I see it.

Firstly, I think of these kind of games as historical role-playing. I personally don't find that convincing when it is done by exploiting the AI. Gamey tactics just drag me out of character. At both a strategic and a tactical level, it does not make much sense to talk of taking out a well defended settlement or large army with just a general and peasant unit. Personally, I enjoy reading of a hard fought battle, using plausible tactics, written up in a good AAR. Just being handed a post-battle savegame with no write up does not contribute much IMO.

Second, there should be absolutely no reloading of battles - as an honour thing, you get one chance at the battle and stick with that. When we put up tables of kill-loss ratios, I know there is an incentive to use your general - with his high HP and 2 HP regenerating escort - to rip apart the enemy, but that is going to come with a risk. I know I was guilty of those tactics in KotR but I paid dearly for it with losing Elberhard at quite the wrong time. I am going to a lot more cautious this time round. With Lusted's mod, the risks will be higher than in KotR.

Third, players fighting battles should be extremely careful of other player's avatars. With so many RBGs, it's inevitable we are going to have multi-general battles early on. I have a vested interest because my character is surely going to be one of those secondary generals. I think it's just subjective bias, but my impression is that a general dies much easier if they are the second, third etc in the stack - not the commanding general. I think actually they have the same HPs regardless, but I guess we are just less aware of them and so accidents happen. Bear in mind that people invest a lot in their characters and it hurts them personally to lose them. Of course, they are placing them at risk by stacking with you and IC your commanding general may be a rash SOB, but still I think OOC consideration should come into play regardless. Think of it as a hard tackle in a friendly game of football - whatever the in game motivation, it's best to try hard to avoid it. That means using concentration of force, breaking the enemy's morale, letting the RBGs get off good charges, pulling them out if they get bogged down, avoiding charging spears unless they are already engaged and you have their flank etc. If you are a rash SOB, risk your own avatar if you must but try to let your seconds escape the carnage. A few player defeats will do the game good anyway, so pulling a punch is not the end of the world.

[AussieGiant]

At the risk of sounding rude, and this is my opinion...

...I would like to follow up econ's post with a more straight forward statement.

Replaying battles or playing ahead with this particular save, or a save created to mirror our game is total utter total

Likewise exploits and other such tactical moves are further instances of conduct.

If you want to take this type of action, then do it on your own time and in your own game. This one is being shared by 20 other people and it is totally inappropriate to ruin it by this type of conduct.

I certainly understand it is tempting, especially when there is a certain level of competition going on. The temptation comes from trying to succeed and be successful in front of peers and friends here on the board. That is perfectly understandable. However the potential damage is large and absolutely inconceivable when you calculate the time and effort being placed into this game by all the participants.

I hope everyone here plays the game straight up, if you take a risk and you pay the price, then I would sincerely hope everyone here rolls with the punches and does not call for a "rewind". Likewise other players will be more than likely to accept accidental death when they occur...and they will occur.

I will add a disclaimer that many players here are vets and will probably know exactly how the game behaves and what the starting moves are likely to be in this particular mod. My statements are not directed to this type of knowledge.

That's a bit of a rant, my apologies, but I take no words back. This is an indication of the passion I hold on the topic and the near zero tolerance I have on this issue. Please take this as context when reading.

[GeneralHankerchief]

AG, this is why I love you.

[Vladimir]

I don't care what anyone says. Killing 1,000 men with one balista is awesome!