The next game in the total war series?

[WinsingtonIII]

I think a few ridiculous hero units could be fun. I would rather have them and have accurate unit types other than that than have ridiculous unit types. The way I see it, having an entire unit of something completely inaccurate ruins it more than just one guy who happens to be ridiculous. Still, I'd probably prefer neither.

I'm glad they decided to revisit Shogun simply for the smaller scale it provides. The scale of Empire was one of the things that ruined it, and part of the reason Napoleon is better is because the scale is smaller. With Shogun's small scale, a lot of detail can be put into everything. Don't get me wrong, I love the epic nature of Total War games, but sometimes the scale is detrimental, because it means the details are neglected.

[vartan]

More detail and larger scale warfare in a game are not necessarily incompatible. They are doable and require a dedicated development team with time and resources on their side. Smaller scale warfare games cannot arguably get away with the relatively lesser detail that a larger scale warfare game can get away with. In any case, all of this aside, the scale of warfare that any game adopts goes to show the variety of tastes in people, and the variety of people in general. You have those who wholeheartedly enjoy those games in which you control either one soldier or only a select group, and you have those who select games on the scale of those from the Total War series. I stand on the larger end of the spectrum. Total War is indeed bittersweet!

[WinsingtonIII]

I don't think they're incompatible, and I like epic scale (anyone who plays Total War does). In fact, if CA had spent maybe a year longer on Empire and ironed out issues and improved historical accuracy, it could be one of the best in the series (it certainly had the most potential in terms of the world map). But unfortunately, deadlines mean they have to make choices and sometimes one aspect suffers over another. Regardless, I think Shogun 2 is actually a good choice simply because it will be quite a change of pace for the series as of late.

[vartan]

Regardless, I think Shogun 2 is actually a good choice simply because it will be quite a change of pace for the series as of late.

If I was religious I would pray with you brother. We can only hope and be disappointed as usual. Pessimism prevails yet again.

[Seneca]

I have no faith in this. Sure, the graphics will overwhelm us, the battles will be epic and the whole thing will feel refreshing for the first week, but after that it will be like ETW all over again and we will be disgusted by the boring gameplay and low complexity.

I'll keep waiting for EBII instead, no mater how long it takes. Best thing out there.

[vartan]

I have no faith in this. Sure, the graphics will overwhelm us, the battles will be epic and the whole thing will feel refreshing for the first week, but after that it will be like ETW all over again and we will be disgusted by the boring gameplay and low complexity.

I'll keep waiting for EBII instead, no mater how long it takes. Best thing out there.

Logic phail. EBII ain't the best or worst thing out there, cause it ain't out there, wherever "there" is. It escapes me, but there was some terminology used to describe that phenomenon wherein your thoughts or predictions of something or some event shape your eventual perception of it. You expect the worst in the new release? Then you'll get the worst. Expect the unexpected (i.e. something new and not in any other TW game)? Then you'll likely get something exciting.

[krste]

What i find the most intriguing is this :

"The game's AI is being programmed according to Sun Tzu's Art of War. As one of the core foundations for this kind of mix of melee and ranged warfare, Sun Tzu is an obvious starting point, but what was particularly revealing is how much Sun Tzu talks like a programmer. If, for example, you outnumber the enemy more than five-to-one, Sun Tzu recommends an enveloping move. If you outnumber the enemy two-to-one, he prefers a direct engagement."

Does this means no more Artificial Idiot ?

[Arkhis]

Logic phail. EBII ain't the best or worst thing out there, cause it ain't out there, wherever "there" is. It escapes me, but there was some terminology used to describe that phenomenon wherein your thoughts or predictions of something or some event shape your eventual perception of it. You expect the worst in the new release? Then you'll get the worst. Expect the unexpected (i.e. something new and not in any other TW game)? Then you'll likely get something exciting.

Wise words. I always hope for something interesting when a new TW game is on the way.

I wonder how this game will turn out, though. What will the map be like? Most importantly, how will they give the factions a unique flavour? The latter is important for a video game, but alas, the various daimyos fighting for power during the Sengoku Jidai have essentially the same army make-up.

I'm not sure about these Hero units , though.

[Apázlinemjó]

Wise words. I always hope for something interesting when a new TW game is on the way.

I wonder how this game will turn out, though. What will the map be like? Most importantly, how will they give the factions a unique flavour? The latter is important for a video game, but alas, the various daimyos fighting for power during the Sengoku Jidai have essentially the same army make-up.

I'm not sure about these Hero units , though.

HEROES!!! :O

[mountaingoat]

oh what would be nice ...

-multiple animations for each unit (they already have skins )

mostly for the elite type units .. where you would of had a wide array of personal weapons brought onto the battlefield .. like watching a group of dismounted knights in mtw2 all carrying swords and shields.. or an entire unit of 2h swords .... having a mix of 1h and 2h weapons and different type of weapons would be nice with fitting animations ..

-advanced animation collision etc

more "flowing" i guess when units are attacking each other .. instead of this great pause with the units standing behind .. i can understand a certain disciplined unit of phalanx or spearmen holding a formation ... but maybe something different from just standing behind .

updating the way animations interact during combat with possibly "pushing" motions ? multiple units attacking single units ( when available) , as now we always have that constant dueling going on for the most part.


-animations effected by their weapons and surroundings

it always seemed strange to me how (when you get bored and start looking closely at the details ) of how a group of spearmen would attack well in a confined space whilst on a wall .. it seems as though there would hardly be any room for this spear and shield to move and thrust a weapon .. *shrug*

-breaking weapons/changing weapons?

how about when horses charge , there is a chance for the lances to break .. instead of having them charge with a lance effect over and over ?

an option to force units to change weapons instead of some sort of automatic processes that calls for them to change from spear to sword etc, and top that off with more than 2 weapons per unit maybe or at least the option to mod this =P


that should do for now lol

[Krusader]

What i find the most intriguing is this :

"The game's AI is being programmed according to Sun Tzu's Art of War. As one of the core foundations for this kind of mix of melee and ranged warfare, Sun Tzu is an obvious starting point, but what was particularly revealing is how much Sun Tzu talks like a programmer. If, for example, you outnumber the enemy more than five-to-one, Sun Tzu recommends an enveloping move. If you outnumber the enemy two-to-one, he prefers a direct engagement."

Does this means no more Artificial Idiot ?

I think CA has written something along the lines for every TW game they've released.

As for heroes, personally I think we'll see heroes with anime-abilities.

[mlc82]

They've said that same thing from Medieval 2 on. "We realize the AI sucked before (nevermind no major reviewer seeming to notice), and we're going to make it just like a human player this time!". Something very close to that was in an old PC Gamer Medieval 2 preview. Same was said for Empire yet again. Now for the newest game.

[WinsingtonIII]

how about when horses charge , there is a chance for the lances to break .. instead of having them charge with a lance effect over and over ?

an option to force units to change weapons instead of some sort of automatic processes that calls for them to change from spear to sword etc, and top that off with more than 2 weapons per unit maybe or at least the option to mod this =P

Well, the breaking lances feature was actually in M2TW. Your cavalry had to wait for their lances to "recharge" (you can pretend they're being resupplied by squires or something I suppose) before they could charge with them again. Plus, you can already change weapons by using the alt-click attack key, but it can be quite glitchy. It would be really nice to see a variety of weapons and animations in a unit.

I have no faith in this. Sure, the graphics will overwhelm us, the battles will be epic and the whole thing will feel refreshing for the first week, but after that it will be like ETW all over again and we will be disgusted by the boring gameplay and low complexity.

I'll keep waiting for EBII instead, no mater how long it takes. Best thing out there.

I think you're being overly pessimistic. To be sure, Shogun 2 will hardly be perfect, and the AI probably won't be great, but it will probably be a step up from Napoleon and Empire battle AI simply because Total War battle AI seems to do much better with melee battles than gunpowder fights. I'm not claiming RTW battle AI is good, but it does a better job than Napoleon or Empire.

Additionally, as I mentioned earlier, I believe the relatively small scale of this game (in the grand scheme compared to other Total War games) actually allows more focus on complexity and detail. And even if it is a quite flawed game, which is always a possibility, you cannot deny that it will be a change of scenery, considering that this is the first time since the first Shogun that a TW game is not focused primarily on Europe and the Middle East (ETW is somewhat of an exception, but not really, as most of the playable factions are European).

I'd rather they focus their efforts on better campaign AI than battle AI to be honest. As long as the battle AI is mediocre like in Rome or Medieval 2, it won't be that horrible, but they need to work on campaign AI. If the computer can actually behave well on the campaign map the game will be much more challenging than if it behaves well on the battle map but does little campaign wise.

Pessimism prevails yet again.

Pessimism only prevails because you let it.... We have no idea what the game will be like, why not be optimistic? To me it doesn't make sense to complain about how bad something will be before it even comes out. Seems like wasted energy to be honest.

[vartan]

Pessimism only prevails because you let it.... We have no idea what the game will be like, why not be optimistic? To me it doesn't make sense to complain about how bad something will be before it even comes out. Seems like wasted energy to be honest.

I know. Like I said, people only see what they wish to see. I don't believe in fate, so if people are complaining, they are choosing to. Poor fellows. Time for a .

[Intranetusa]

I don't want to see another Shogun game - that era and location has already been exhausted. Rome II would be nice, but it would be too limited and a rehash.

I want to see:
1. Ancient Eurasia: Total War
2nd century: Han Empire vs Parthian Empire vs Roman Empire vs Mayuran Empire - the world's 4 greatest 2nd century civilizations in a free for all battle would be freking sweet
2. Qin-Han Empire Total War
3. Three Kingdoms Total War
4. Warring States to Qin Empire Total War (one of the earliest cases of actual "total war"
5. Mongol Empire Total War (conquer everyone)
6. Ming-Korean-Japanese War (Imijin war?), complete with random European trading factions and Portuguese selling weapons
7. 8th century Eurasia: Total War
Tang Dynasty vs Sassanids vs Byzantines

Other/Expansion ideas:
1. Peloponnesian War: Total War, and then all the wars in which Sparta continuously gets their @$$ kicked
2. Greco-Persian War

Ugh, I just found out the next Total War Game is Shogun 2....that is kinda lame. I predict CA will just turn it into a remake - basically Shogun 1 with better graphics and even crappier AI.

[Apázlinemjó]

Wow, I just read a few comments at Gamestar (Hungarian one) and they are like "OMGZOR IT'S STW2 WIT HEROS WOWOWOWOWO TOTAL WARZOR DA PWNZOR". I was afraid to post anything.

[Krusader]

Pessimism only prevails because you let it.... We have no idea what the game will be like, why not be optimistic? To me it doesn't make sense to complain about how bad something will be before it even comes out. Seems like wasted energy to be honest.

My pessimism stems from experience. And with hero units, I'm not going to be optimistic either, particularly when one hero is a mythological hero...it could be worse

[bobbin]

As for heroes, personally I think we'll see heroes with anime-abilities.

I hear the Akira unit will be a real tide turner in battle.

[WinsingtonIII]

My pessimism stems from experience. And with hero units, I'm not going to be optimistic either, particularly when one hero is a mythological hero...it could be worse

I know it stems from experience. Still's a waste of time though... because all you're doing is putting negative energy into something we know nothing about

I'm not particularly optimistic about the heroes either though, but if Tom Cruise is in, I don't see what could go wrong

EDIT:

On a more serious note though, I just read this on heroes. It seems the ign article was a bit (read as: very) misleading about them and this is how CA actually wants them described

Hero Units: - These are not one man armies that destroy everything that opposes them. These are highly ranked elite units, available at the top of the tech tree who exemplify a mastery of a given martial technique (E.g. sword fighting). They are able to take on other heroes, and are naturally very powerful against groups of enemies but are not invincible game-changers. These figures are also based on true historical accounts of great fighters who founded schools of combat, not myths that take on whole armies and win.

This sounds much better, although I'm still skeptical and I do NOT want this turning into an RPG.

The text is from here by the way.

[Intranetusa]

I'm not particularly optimistic about the heroes either though, but if Tom Cruise is in, I don't see what could go wrong

But Dances with the Last Avatar was such a great movie! It'll at least be as historical as Roman hash-assassin ninjas and flaming pigs in R:TW

This sounds much better, although I'm still skeptical and I do NOT want this turning into an RPG.

"Sparta: Total War" hack n' slash RPG anyone?

[Ludens]

The Shogun 2: Total War forum is up. Let's head there to discuss the possibilities.

[Starforge]

What i find the most intriguing is this :

"The game's AI is being programmed according to Sun Tzu's Art of War. As one of the core foundations for this kind of mix of melee and ranged warfare, Sun Tzu is an obvious starting point, but what was particularly revealing is how much Sun Tzu talks like a programmer. If, for example, you outnumber the enemy more than five-to-one, Sun Tzu recommends an enveloping move. If you outnumber the enemy two-to-one, he prefers a direct engagement."

Does this means no more Artificial Idiot ?

Call me a cynic but that's called marketing. Read the paragraph again and see if anything tangible is actually promised or if it simply sounds good. Yet, somewhere, I guarentee there's a kid out there thinking.......Sun Tzu! cool!

Edit: Heroes? Seriously? I wish CA would make a good game and not have a bunch of execs sitting in a room trying to second guess what the 14 yr olds will buy. Then again - I'm not 14 so maybe I'm just not the target audience :D.

[Hannibal Khan the Great]

Edit: Heroes? Seriously? I wish CA would make a good game and not have a bunch of execs sitting in a room trying to second guess what the 14 yr olds will buy. Then again - I'm not 14 so maybe I'm just not the target audience :D.

I am 14 and I disagree with the idea of hero units in a Total War game...

[paleologos]

Hero units?

That would be World of Total Warcraft, wouldn't it?

[Hannibal Khan the Great]

Shogun 2: Total WoW. What will they think of next?

[paleologos]

Shogun 2: Total WoW. What will they think of next?

Perhaps World of Total Star WarsCraft.

[mountaingoat]

Well, the breaking lances feature was actually in M2TW. Your cavalry had to wait for their lances to "recharge" (you can pretend they're being resupplied by squires or something I suppose) before they could charge with them again. Plus, you can already change weapons by using the alt-click attack key, but it can be quite glitchy.

hehe not even close to what i meant , though that idea needs a lot more work ... and yes the alt clicking is glitchy at best,... you are responding to me like i have never played a TW game?


though.. if there was a "camp" where your horses or soldiers could run back to and "re arm" .. then it might simulate that...

either way .. off to the stw2 forum

[WinsingtonIII]

hehe not even close to what i meant , though that idea needs a lot more work ... and yes the alt clicking is glitchy at best,... you are responding to me like i have never played a TW game?

Sorry, I wasn't trying to presume anything, I thought maybe you hadn't played Medieval 2 and didn't know about the lance feature. I agree though, it's not a great representation.

Realistically though, in my opinion, they need to focus on improving AI and historical accuracy before they move on to more minor details like breaking lances, although the details would be nice to see as well.

Sorry Ludens, last post about this here from me.

[Starforge]

I am 14 and I disagree with the idea of hero units in a Total War game...

No offense meant to 14 yr olds. It's the middle age game execs (and movie directors) who try and second guess what they think 14 year olds will like I reserve some contempt for since it's usually based only on an interpretation of what has sold in the past.

[seienchin]

Shogun 1 had the sword masters so having different kind of single man units with names is pretty cool. :)
Beeing able to choose the skills the generals get, is not tooo great in my opinion and naval battles in sengoku japan are a catastrophy. Except for that it sounds great. :)