The Magnaura

[Privateerkev]

Makedonios sighs.

Comes Savvas, could you at least attempt to not mischaracterize my statements? My offer to Hypatios has nothing to do with requiring him to hand Rhodes to me. If you check the transcripts, you'll see that I quite plainly would have required him to hand it back to Kalameteros. My offer was simply to give him a chance to repent and work towards forgiveness. All I would have gained materially, would be a noble in my army.

But, he refused my offer and His Eminence has a task for him. So, now that we have beaten this particular horse to a pulpy soup, we can get on with Senate business.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Efstathios's scribe sniggered and says quietly..

I doubt that Machonios will give away his province. He is a mad man but not that mad!

[Privateerkev]

Makedonios sighs yet again.

He's already refused. It's done. Over.

Why don't we discuss something more important like why your lord felt the need to attempt to sabotage one of my Crusaders? I thought those on such a Holy Mission were beyond such petty manuevers.

He gave Efstathios's scribe a pointed look.

OOC: don't worry, I got this info IC and not through the story thread. :beam:

[Andres]

Well, since the Basileus has declared that the matter with Hypatios has been dealt with by House Asteri, I assume there will be no Emergency Senate Session.

Savvas stands up, nods to the Senators who are still present and leaves the building.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Efstathios's scribe started to stutter ..

Well .. umm .. perhaps it was .. umm .. a mistake??
These things happen?!

He just wished to disappear...
Saying quietly to himself..

Me and my big mouth!

[Privateerkev]

Makedonios raises an eyebrow.

A mistake? He accidently tried to sabotage Stavros? And these things just happen?

Please tell your lord to see that it doesn't 'happen' again. If it does, I will become most annoyed...

[Ibn-Khaldun]

The scribe is near a heart attack ...
This is the first time someone important ever 'talked' to him that long..

As much as I know my Master was in the port and was.. umm .. admiring the ships when two .. umm .. shady characters dressed as sentries approached him..
My Master thought that it is best to run .. umm .. walk away and .. umm .. admire someone elses ships..

The scribe takes his seat and hoping that this is the last time he have to speak ...

[flyd]

The doors to the Magnaura swing open and a captain from the eastern armies barges in with a pair of soldiers in tow. He speaks loudly.

Antypatos Markianos Ampelas has captured a member of the so-called "Organization", one who made the most grievous mistake of thinking it a good idea to approach Sir Ampelas with an offer of cooperation. To approach him in the middle of the army camp of all places. The man has been conducted to Constantinople and placed in the custody of the Varangian guard, for the Emperor and the Senate to interrogate and otherwise do with as they wish.

Markianos Ampelas remains with his army and is nearly upon the fortress Caesarea.

Not being much interested in the reply, the captain does an about-face, and marches out of the Magnaura with the same sense of purpose with which he came in.

(OOC: Yes, this has happened. Talk to YLC if you wish to interrogate this man.)

[GeneralHankerchief]

Patriarchal Representative:

Let it be known that His Eminence strongly denounces the repeated sabotage attempts by the Crusade. It is not at all within the spirit of the Holy Mission. Keep in mind that once you take up the Cross, you represent all that it stands for. And it most certainly does not stand for hindering other would-be Holy Soldiers in a childish attempt to get to Egypt first.

If the member of this so-called Organization is found out to be behind the sabotage, he will be religiously prosecuted with vigor in addition to whatever may happen politically.

[Kagemusha]

A messenger in dusty clothes enters the Senate and reports:

"My Master Ioannis Kantakouzinos of the House Komnenodoukai has annihilated near the Carpaths a rebel army of over 400 men, with only his personal men. He reports that he has executed all the prisoners."

[Privateerkev]

I thought rebel armies just go back to their farms when they are defeated. And I certainly have heard no rumors of a mass execution. Are you just making this up to provoke some of us?

OOC: The above sentences are purely IC. You don't get the option to execute so you don't get any execution traits. So on one hand, one can argue IC that rebels aren't executed. On the other hand, you can certainly write stories about executing. The game doesn't give you the option since you can't ransom rebels. So, I guess my point is to simply support or refute my IC point purely on IC grounds. :beam:

[Kagemusha]

The messenger turns around on the door and consults the Grandmaster.

"Do you wish to rely a message to my master? I am his shield bearer and second in command, Hector Karamaitis. Or dont you believe his word? I was there, there is a hill covered with over 190 hanged rebels between Bucharest and Carpathian mountains. I repeat, does the Grandmaster wish to send a message to my master about his treatment of the rebel scum which were raizing the villages of the area?"

OOC: We dont have a clue what will happen to the rebel prisoners, but i have little doubt that rebels would be spared once caught, so i dont see anything historically wrong with that kind of treatment.After all Bysantines blinded whole enemy armies or what was caught of them during their time:smash:

[Privateerkev]

If your master truly did this, then why does he not have the reputation? Sounds like a lot of empty boasting to me.

OOC: I totally agree with the historical context. But without those traits, it basically devolves into a "he said/she said" kind of debate. :2thumbsup:

[Kagemusha]

Hector bows and replies.

"Destroying over 400 men, including Magyar cavalry with little more 20 men should be deed enough, i cant see what boasting there is in executing scum and brigands, who threaten the population of empire, but it it is my masters place to comment on what has been said, not mine, so if you will excuse my humble presence, so i will take some rest, before departing back to my master."

Hector sits down near the door, in order to listen to verbal messages or take letters back to Kantakouzinos.

[AussieGiant]

I have it on good advise that Lord Kantakouzinos actions are being looked upon favourably by the royal family.

[Privateerkev]

I have heard that as well. But I think that has to do with actually defeating the army.

What I don't agree with is boasting of executions. And what puzzles me more is why would you boast of them when absolutly no one else speaks of your claims?

In my opinion, he should simply bask in the victory, and drop these ridiculous claims of murdering captured farmers and tradesmen. Because even if the claims are true, they are nothing to boast about.

But defeating 400 men with just you and your guards? Now that is something to boast about and I congratulate the Senator on his victory. Gives a head not towards the shield bearer.

[Kagemusha]

Hectors cheeks slightly blush with anger when he listens to Grandmaster about murdering peasants, while he himself knows what the army had been doing before they had destroyed it. Led by Hungarian tribesmen, whether or not approved by King of Hungary, most probably the army was financed by some Hungarian nobleman. Still knowing his place he keeps his mouth shut and only presses every word Makedonias says into his brain, so he can report it to Ioannis.

[AussieGiant]

Clearing his throat to create some type of distraction.

Indeed. Let see what comes of the victory.

Time will tell.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Efstathios's scribe hits with his hand against his forehead and says quietly..

Gah! Mad man kills some people and he is thrown out of his House. Another mad man kills some people just for fun and he is greeted as a hero!? The ways of these senators are to complex to me!

He looks around and hopes that the Grandmasters good ears didn't hear his words again..

[Cecil XIX]

Armatos glances at the scribe.

The difference, my good man, is that in the former example the people in question were peasents and other civilians. In the latter, they were brigands and highwaymen.

[Dafuge]

And they were prepared to fight.

[Privateerkev]

Keep in mind that I find it doubtful that anyone was executed. These kinds of things tend not to stay quiet for long. Everyone knows that rebel prisoners get sent home because there is no kingdom to pay the ransom.

[Andres]

Kristophoros, one of Savvas' bodyguards enters the Magnaura, followed by four servants carrying two barrels of wine.

He nods to Hector.

My master heard about the heroic deeds of Senator Kantakouzinos and wishes to congratulate him. These two barrels of wine are a gift for Lord Kantakouzinos.

[TheFlax]

A message is posted at the entrance of the Magnaura.

The newly appointed Dean of the University of Constantinople is now accepting applications from any Senator who wishes to partake in scholarly pursuits. All applicants have until Thursday 31st of July, 5:00 PM EST to submit their application in the form of a letter to the Dean. Stating reasons for applying and as to why the applicant should be accepted may positively influence the choice of the Dean.

A list of those accepted into the position of scholar will be posted on the following day.

[Kagemusha]

After listening the last statement of Makedonias with a disbelief in his face, because Hector quite cant understand what the Grandmaster is speculating. He humbly accepts the gifts of Savvas ek Militou and thanks the Senator on Ioannis behalf.

[ULC]

Iakovos stops on his way into the Magnaura to read over message about the University, and after reading it over carefully, Iakovos makes his way to his seat.

[Zim]

Kosmas sits in a corner of the Maganura, drumming his fingers on the table in front of him. He seems to be becoming increasingly agitated the longer it takes for the crusade to set off to Egypt. The debate between Makedonios and Kantakouzinos' servant fails to interest him, until a messenger arrives and delivers a letter to Kosmas, stopping to talk to him for a minutes before leaving.

I can vouch for the truth of Kantakouzinos' man's claim. Some of my servants in Scopia are Hungarian, and word has traveled quickly to them of the rebellion to the northeast and Kantakouzinos' treatment of the prisoners he caught. A few of my messengers in the area have even seen the bodies of the dead rebels hanging. Hundreds of them, apparently.

As for what the point is of boasting of such an act, when hanging rebels is the standard way of dealking with them, I cannot say.

[Andres]

I will inform my master of Lord Kantakouzinos' gratitude.

He winks at Hector with a grin on his face and whispers to him.

Don't let your guy drink all the wine. Make sure you manage to get a goblet or two as well. It's great stuff.

Kristophoros bows for the Senators.

Gentlemen, thank you for accepting my humble presence in this esteemed body. My master sends his regards.

Kristophoros bows again. On his way out he stops to read the notice about the University and then continues his way.

[Privateerkev]

Makedonios raises an eyebrow at Kosmas.

Hanging rebels is "the standard way of dealking with them?"

Since when? I fought a rebel army outside of Antioch and I didn't hang them.

These people deserve full quarter once they lay down their arms. Even if Kantakouzinos's claims are true, it is no act to boast of.

[_Tristan_]

I would say the same as Makedonios... I fought against rebels in more battles than any of you here... At no time did I kill any of the men that wished to surrender though none tried to neither, I'll admit...

[GeneralHankerchief]

Patriarchal Representative:

And to whom exactly are the applications for Scholar sent to?

[Andres]

Savvas' scribe wakes up as he hears the voice of the Patriarchal Representative.

Forgive me mylord. I believe the Basileus appointed his daughter as Dean of the University.

[Zim]

Kosmas shrugs.

Perhaps I should have said "a" standard way to deal with rebels. I prefer to hang only the ring leaders myself, unless I think doing so will create martyrs. Whatever the most common method, killing rebels is generally not seen as enough of an event to affect a man's reputation among the people of the Empire. If it were, perhaps more generals would "arrange" so that none of their rebel foes surrender.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Patriarchal Representative:

Thank you, kind scribe.

*The Representative shuffles out of the chamber, muttering such words as "nepotism" and "power grab" under his breath.*

[ULC]

Edit: Nothing to see here...

[Privateerkev]

Makedonios walks into the Magnaura in full armor.

Senators,

I come back from the field to address the Magnaura on the state of our Empire.

Basically, we are sliding into severe debt. And it is not the Crusade that is doing it. That is self-funded. I don't know where all the money went, but it's gone. The Empire is already in debt by 2997 florins.

And it isn't the Order. As promised, our financial footprint is relatively small. In fact, we're basically neglected on everything. Exactly one thing has been built in the Levant all term and that is only because it was something I legally "prioritized." And I picked a pretty modest building I might add.

Our garrisons are the bare minimum required to keep order. Adana has 1 militia regiment and 3 archers. Not 3 archer regiments. I mean three archers. Aleppo has 2 battered regiments of peasants. Antioch has 1 militia regiment. And Nicosia has 1 peasant regiment for a garrison and 2 peasant regiments for my army.

Speaking of my army. It is legally complete, but those 2 peasant regiments are stuck on Nicosia. Why? Because the Caesar has taken the one ship in the entire Eastern Med and sent them to Jerusalem. According to naval orders, that ship will blockade Jerusalem's port next year. The problem with that is the fact that the war will start with an Egyptian army right next to me in Antioch AND PART OF MY ARMY IS STILL STUCK ON AN ISLAND!!!!!!!

Makedonios takes a breath after raising his voice.

Pardon my volume but things are getting bleak gentlemen. Since the Caesar has ignored my letter regarding the navy, I will lay it out in public. I need that ship moved back to Nicosia this turn so those 2 peasant regiments can be moved to my army next turn. So I can then defend Antioch properly. And this shouldn't even be open for debate. By law, my army has to at least be minimum standards. And it isn't. It's already a joke that the Caesar is giving me peasants for what is legally supposed to be a "professional" army. But those peasants are completely cut off from reinforcing me.

Furthermore, Hypatos Armatos requires an army BY LAW! And what does he have? NOTHING! And I know recruitment has gone on throughout the Empire! The Caesar's royal army just got filled with new mercenary units. Asteri has probably 5 or 6 private armies worth of troops even though they only have 3 nobles with the rank to require them. And Armatos goes COMPLETELY WITHOUT! Meanwhile, the Turks are to the north of Adana, the Fatamids are next to Antioch, and the Templars are still massing on our border. We NEED two armies! Not only do we need them, but they are legally required! Again, I should NOT have to come in here and say this!

I know we voted against the Caesar but this blatant mistreatment of the Order risks lives! We are at war gentlemen!

Furthermore, there are now NO PRIESTS in the Levant! None! Zero! They are all in Anatolia! And both Iconium and Caesara are more than half converted. We need at least a couple of them back in the Levant to convert Adana and Aleppo.

Back to the finances. Do you know we have only 1 merchant!?! ONE! The Levant is the trading crossroads of the world! Our only merchant is there right now raking in over a thousand florins a year. Why aren't there more merchants?

And why has the navy by Greece gotten bloated and sits idle? And I don't mean the Crusader ships because those don't get funded by us. I mean, the ones sitting off Athens. The eastern Med has exactly 1 ship. Yet there are so many ships in the west that I can walk from Constantinople to Crete without getting my feet wet!

And what is with all the mercenaries! I'm stuck with filling my army with peasants but Pavlos gets to recruit Saracens for the Caesar's army. Something stinks!

Oh, and by the way! Who ever dropped their army into Belgrade didn't do the Empire any favors! Anastatios is... where ever it is Anastatios goes... But the point is, without him to give permission, a whole army is LOCKED in a city on the other side of a war! And we can't disband them to save money because he needs to sign the paperwork!

So, I want the Megas to appear and tell us how he is going to get us out of this mess. With the Empire in severe debt, I don't expect the Megas to recruit or build to offset the giant inequalities that have developed. I only lay out the Order's situation so we don't get blamed for draining the Empire's coffers.

What is wrong with the Caesar!?! Ampelas built up the army and navy and he was able to do it without sinking the whole Empire into crushing debt! And he kept up building at a steady pace.

We are on the edge of financial ruin! If the Megas does not fix this, then for the good of the Empire, we will need to impeach him and get a guy in office who can fix this. And the worst is yet to come. The Crusade is currently self-funding so it is not adding to our troubles. But when that Crusade is over, all of those troops will become part of the Imperial Army which means WE will be paying for them. If the Megas doesn't fix our budget NOW, then we will plummet economically and our Empire will completely stagnate.

Now that I have kicked the hornet's nest, I welcome the other nobles and especially House leaders to comment.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Patriarchal Representative:

Calm yourself. The Basileus organized the effort to get his son elected. I'm sure this is all part of his plan.

[woad&fangs]

Solomon shuffles into the Magnaura, looking sullen and angry. He carries a goblet of wine

I for one find the irony delicious. Despite his opposition to the crusade, it appears that our "great" Caesar now requires the Nile's wealth to keep the empire solvent.

raising his goblet

May Basileus Aleksios continue to rule over us for years to come.

[OverKnight]

Aleksios listens intently to Makedonios, smiles coldly when the Patriarchal flunky speaks and frowns at the words of Solomon.

Grandmaster, I too am eager to hear from the Megas Logothetes concerning our finances and recruitment.

The Basileus turns to the Patriarchal lickspittle.

Sarcasm is unbecoming a man of the cloth. I see that you have slithered back into this chamber, if you wish to stay, bide your tongue.

Aleksios looks at Solomon, holding his gaze for a moment.

Thank you for the toast, Senator.

[Ignoramus]

Caesar Ioannis enters the Magnaura, looking calm as he rises to speak.

Senators, I thank you for your patience in waiting for me. With your leave, I will first respond to the concerns to Senator Ksanthopoulos.

Turning to Makedonios, Ioannis begins to speak.

Thank you for your concerns, senator. I shall do my best to allay your fears, though I fear it is a waste of time.

The treasury is indeed empty. I speak bluntly, because speaking otherwise will not suddenly bring us more florins. For years now, the thirst for war has led us to build up our armies to an enormous size. This is partly due to the anticipation of the campaign being undertaken in Anatolia, and partly due to the shame we suffered in the years following Manzikert.

As a consequence of this, we will be in debt until we have driven the Turks out of Anatolia. War is an expensive business.

The Order, very nobly, has kept its word and has not required many men from the empire. I salute their sincerity, and wish to uphold them as an example to others on keeping promises they made.

I regret to say that my royal army was illegally under strength for 30 years. As such, I took steps to fix this discrepancy, as is required in our charter. Regrettably, due to the shortage of florins, I was unable to hire any other units for your army save the two companies of peasant levies. This was due to the construction of major works around the empire.

I am suprised at your alarm over the impending war with the Fatimids. Did not you eloquently argue for this war? And now that this war is almost upon you, you begin to realise that sometimes wars should not be entered into rashly. I am only obeying the will of this august body, as is my duty. If you now agree with me and see the imprudence of such an action, then you would do well to voice it.

As for those two companies of peasantry, I will be dispatching them as soon as ships can be sent from the main fleet. You are a competent general, and should not feel their lack. Besides, they are but peasants.

The conversion of Anatolia is far more important than Syria. We are currently in a war with the infidel, and the people's morale must be boosted with the preaching of the true faith.

Turning again to address the whole of the Magnaura, Ioannis continues.

Senators, the times are not easy, but I shall guide us through them with a steady hand. Have more patience, and we will emerge stronger from this trial.

Ioannis finishes speaking and exits the Magnaura.

[Privateerkev]

Surprised that the Caesar simply left without taking replies, Makedonios stands.

Since the Caesar has decided to run away, I will address his points.

Frankly, I find his answers to be less than satisfactory.

I will remind the Caesar that filling armies takes precedence over construction. I will point to "limitation 2" of the Megas's powers.


(2) No money can be spent on any construction until all Prioritized Buildings have been funded, unless the Senators who Prioritized them agree otherwise. If there are multiple Prioritized Buildings, and not enough funding for all of them, the Megas Logothetes may choose which to construct first. Rule 4.3 takes precedence over all prioritized buildings.

Quite simply, a private/royal army must be filled before spending money on anything else. Therefore, the Caesar has just admitted to breaking Rule 4.3. And this isn't just breaking an edict. Rules are absolutely sacrosanct. Totally and completely.

I still support war against Egypt. What I don't support is you stranding part of my legally sanctioned private army on an island. You don't have a choice in this matter. Rule 4.3 clearly states that you must make my army to the legal minimum required standards. Not to mention the fact that peasants hardly count as "professional" troops. You do not need to send that ship to blockade Jerusalem's port. I demand that it be brought north so you can actually follow the law and add those peasants to my army.

As for Anatolia being more important, isn't it important to spread the word everywhere? And wasn't there an edict that passed mandating that you send priests to provinces with a church that was below a certain amount of conversion? Just how many laws do you plan on breaking Caesar? We're only a couple years into your term...

I again ask that we call an emergency session and put forth articles of impeachment against the Caesar. We just punished Hypatios for violating Edicts. The Caesar just admitted that he violated the Rules. If we punish Edict violations but ignore Rule violations, then we are truly hypocrites.

The Caesar has just put every citizen in the Levant at risk by flat out refusing to recruit Hypatos Armatos's army and refusing to give me my legally mandated reinforcements. In the meantime, he has recruited hundreds of mercenaries and bankrupted the Empire. I hope those of you who voted for him are now happy with where he is leading us. Remember, I warned many of you in private of this day.

OOC: We need to figure out what to do OOC as well. I'm pretty sure Ig actually broke the rules of the game when he refused to recruit troops for a legal army, yet recruited and built elsewhere.

[OverKnight]

The Basileus leans back in Throne and surveys Makedonios over tented fingers. He speaks quietly.

I would be interested to hear the views of other Senators on this matter.

[ULC]

Iakovos stands.

"Your Majesty, if I may? The Grandmaster made mention of the fact that Adana is garrisoned with only 3 archers and one under strength spear unit, and myself. Reports from scouts that I sent out in the area tell me that a large Turkish army is coming down the pass just northeast of Adana. If they beseige Adana, there will be no hope in defending it."

Iakovos grabs a document from his desk and reads from it, continuing to speak in an even tone.

"May I also ask why is it that a good portion of the Caesars army is in Trebizond? Yes, that may be in Anatolia, but as far as the report says here in my hand, not only is the army in Trebizond composed of expensive mercenaries, it is also as far away from the actual fighting taking place while still being able to claim that it is 'for the Anatolian campaign'."

Iakovos clears his throat and continues, his attention fully given to the Emperor.

"I am sure you also understand that Adana is also in Anatolia, along a favored route of the Turkish army. As such, Adana should be considered a priority zone. The loss of Adana means the Turks may strike at will at either Iconium, Antioch, and Caesarea. We would be making a grave strategic error if Adana falls. I also would like to remind everyone at the Caesars words that 'The conversion of Anatolia is far more important than Syria'. I would like to ask, that if the conversion of Anatolia is so important, why have no priests been sent to Adana?"

Iakovos retuns to his desk to pick up yet another document

"I would also like to add that although we asked for war with the Egyptians, with the Caesars obvious disdain, I would like to point out that Aleppo is vulnerable to Turkish troops heading south. If we do not want to be caught in a pincer movement, then we must do something about this."

Iakovos looks over the paper again

"I would point as well that the army that took Iconium is in fact still in Iconium. Logistical reports indicate that only a skeleton garrison would be needed at this point to hold Iconium, and the rest of the troops could be put to good use in further pushing east against the Turks. Why hasn't this been done?"

Iakovos returns to his seat.

"I won't bother going over the points the Grandmaster has made, since I agree with them all in detail, and to simply parrot words would be a waste of everyone's time here."

[Andres]

Savvas enters the Magnaura.

This is the second time I have to leave my troops...

Dear Grandmaster, the treasury is empty, what would you want the Caesar to do? Sell his garments?

If only Hypatios would have sacked Iconium, instead of exterminating it...

[ULC]

Iakovos raises an eyebrow to Savvas.

"Sacking the city would have only been a temporary solution. This is obviously a long term problem that has to do with how the money is being spent, and as such it requires a long term solution."

[Andres]

Savvas stays silent and waits.

[AussieGiant]

Making his way into the Magnaura, Apionnas has a concerned look on his face. His armour and dress, of Arabic style as usual, are stained and travel worn.

There is certainly a serious concern with regards to the treasury. This needs to be addressed immediately by the Megas.

However calling for impeachment seems an over reaction.

I believe Senator Makedonios is referring to the regulations on Army management. Construction and recruitment are two separate issues and should be dealt with as such. Regulation 4.3 refers to Army recruiting and maintenance. It in fact states that Royal Armies have priority over Private armies. The Megas in this case does seem to be following the regulation.

Rather than getting into a legal debate over various issues, it would be far more valuable to determine how we can ensure the treasury is going to corrected.

Most of the other issues are simply finite resources being allocated in a particular order and therefore not pleasing those at the lower end of that order.

War with Egypt needs to be delayed or entirely suspended. It is unwanted, ill timed and could seriously damage the stability of the Empire. I fear that we have gone too far to reverse course now.

I hope those men that are bravely making their way to Cario have prayed long and hard.

[ULC]

Iakovos stands and gives a nod to Apionnas.

"I agree senator, do you have a suggestion as to what to do about it? As far as I can tell, the only thing we can do is scale back our military by removing wasteful troops by going through them in a cost/benefit analysis."

[_Tristan_]

A letter arrives with a Smyrna's stamp.

Senators,

My ship is at anchor at Smyrna for resupply and I can't believe the news I am hearing from Constantinople.

I voted against Caesar Ioannis in the last election, out of fear that he would act not in the interests of the Empire but in the interests of those thta support him, and it seems I am to be proven right.

Senator Machonios have been adequately punished for his violations of our laws. Caesar Ioannis must be impeached for his admitted violations of our sacrosanct rules, violations he admittedly made knowingly.

Caesar Ioannis asks us not to be afraid, but there is cause to be : the Crusade is already on its way and cannot be turned back but what of it when it lands and successfully conquers the cities of Egypt, how will the Caesar ensure that we can build the necessary buildings or pay for the upkeep of the Crusaders ?

How can the Order defend our holdings in the Levant from an Egyptian counter-attack with a single army (and uncomplete to boot) where two are mandated by law ?

The position of Megas Logothetes does not absolve the Caesar of following our laws... Or perhaps is it that the title of Caesar has finally gotten to his head and he sees himself as some of the Roman dictators of the past, the Neros and Caligulas that spelt doom for Rome.

Though I may be absent from the Senate, I plead for the Basileos to call for an Emergency Session so that we can impeach the Caesar and nominate a new Megas more given to fairness and less to power-grubbing.

The cities of Egypt will not be sacked to fill up our emptying coffers.

Strator Methodios Tagaris

[AussieGiant]

Nodding to Iakovos.

I agree that is the most pressing task that needs to be done here. Perhaps the Megas can return and provide a report on what can be done.

A slight frown now creases the brow of the Saracen looking officer.

It seems my point has been missed by a few here. I will make myself clearer.

Regulation 4.3 states:

4.3 – Army Replenishment: If a Private or Royal Army falls below the minimum strength level, all military recruitment must be allocated to restoring the Army to minimum strength before money can be spent on other recruitment, unless the owner agrees otherwise. In the event of a conflict, a Royal Army takes priority over a Private Army. This rule does not apply to armies involved in a Civil War.

The current accusation therefore is inaccurate. Is the charge concerning building or recruiting?

If impeachment is to be requested then those doing so must state their case in a far more precise fashion. With limited resources it seems clear that the "Order" of replenishment is at the discretion of the Megas when armies are categorised the same. This is not a breach of these regulations.

[Andres]

We could of course also use these forces and take a large amount of settlements that a) can be sacked to fill the gap in the treasury; b) will bring us income to pay for the upkeep of our forces.

Alternatively, disbanding unnecessary units seems a reasonable course of action, as long as are borders stay strong.

And I suggest Methodios offers an apology in his next letter. Comparing our Caesar to Caligula and Nero is very, very distasteful.

[Zim]

One of Kosmas' scribes, left behind to take notes from the Magnaura, looks up sheepishly at Apionnas.

Sir, if I may. Makedonios cited one of the limitations on the power of the Megas. *ahem*

"(2) No money can be spent on any construction until all Prioritized Buildings have been funded, unless the Senators who Prioritized them agree otherwise. If there are multiple Prioritized Buildings, and not enough funding for all of them, the Megas Logothetes may choose which to construct first. Rule 4.3 takes precedence over all prioritized buildings. "

So, no other construction can be done until Prioritized Buildings set by Senators of high enough rank are complete. The note that Rule 4.3, concerning Private and Royal armies, takes precedence over Prioritized Buildings prevents the Megas from contructing Prioritized Buildings until the armies have been filled to minimal levels.

The Megas cannot fulfill regular constructions orders until fulfilling prioritized ones, and cannot fulfill those until armies have been filled. Added to the requirement from rule 4.3 that no other recruitment can be done until armies are filled, and this means both construction and recruitment must be brought to a halt until Private and Royal armies are filled.

OOC Confused me at first, too. :sweatdrop:

[AussieGiant]

Turning to the scribe, Apionnas responds in an even tone.

They are linked.

My questions are simple, are there forces across the region and the Empire, that if reassigned would bring the various armies up the required levels?

In addition, are all parties aware of which Senators have waived their requirements as part of the regulation?

The details have not been addressed, therefore assumptions have been made. If assumption have been made then this is my point.

Assumptions should not be part of any impeachment request.

[Zim]

OOC: Just occurred to me that I should mention that at least one character, Makedonios, did prioritize a building, allowing this rather tenuous chain of requirements of the Megas to connect. If there were no prioritized buildings then the Megas could at least construct buildings without filling armies to the minimum required numbers. :yes:

[ULC]

Iakovos consults his papers.

"Indeed, I have a full report on all of the Empires soldiers, including their numbers and location. If anyone would want, I can give them the information."

[AussieGiant]

Are there enough regiments to redistribute and fulfil the reguations Senator Iakovos?

[ULC]

Iakovos scans the paper

All of the following soldiers are unoccupied or are otherwise not part of an official army.

At Belgrade - We have 1 Regiment of Trebizond Archers, with 64 men, 3 regiments of Byzantine Spearmen at 103, 93, and 81 men.

At Constantinople - 5 regiments of Spear Militia all at 112 men, although only one is available for use, all other being on garrison duty.

At Dardanellia - 2 regiments of Dismounted Byzantine Lancers at 90 men each.

At Nicaea - 3 regiments of Spear Militia each at 112 men, although we should keep at least one there. It also has Ballista artillery with 30 men.

At Cyrpus - 3 regiments of Peasants at 112 men each, although one should be enough to maintain civil order.

Iakovos jots down a few numbers.

This leads to a total of 9 available regiments for the use in private armies. Please take note that Belgrade is under the control of Anastasios Neokaiseritis.

Flipping through a few more pages he has, Iakovos looks back to Apionnas.

Those numbers do not include units in the field currently, nor do they reflect possible redistribution of units in settlements which currently have private armies in them.

[AussieGiant]

Nodding as he too begins to note down the numbers, Apionnas looks back up at the assembled senators.

I'm not going to continue to do the work of those that accuse the Megas of breaching the regulations and call for his impeachment.

I believe ever man in this room can see in which direction I am trying to find a solution.

The impeachment request is wholly unnecessary at this time. Those that wish to continue with its request should assess the strength of the case.

[ULC]

Iakovos pulls out another piece of paper.

"May I ask how these regiments are to be distributed and to whom?"

[Ramses II CP]

Caesar Ioannis enters the Magnaura, looking calm as he rises to speak.

Senators, I thank you for your patience in waiting for me. With your leave, I will first respond to the concerns to Senator Ksanthopoulos.

Turning to Makedonios, Ioannis begins to speak.

Thank you for your concerns, senator. I shall do my best to allay your fears, though I fear it is a waste of time.

The treasury is indeed empty. I speak bluntly, because speaking otherwise will not suddenly bring us more florins. For years now, the thirst for war has led us to build up our armies to an enormous size. This is partly due to the anticipation of the campaign being undertaken in Anatolia, and partly due to the shame we suffered in the years following Manzikert.

As a consequence of this, we will be in debt until we have driven the Turks out of Anatolia. War is an expensive business.

The Order, very nobly, has kept its word and has not required many men from the empire. I salute their sincerity, and wish to uphold them as an example to others on keeping promises they made.

I regret to say that my royal army was illegally under strength for 30 years. As such, I took steps to fix this discrepancy, as is required in our charter. Regrettably, due to the shortage of florins, I was unable to hire any other units for your army save the two companies of peasant levies. This was due to the construction of major works around the empire.

I am suprised at your alarm over the impending war with the Fatimids. Did not you eloquently argue for this war? And now that this war is almost upon you, you begin to realise that sometimes wars should not be entered into rashly. I am only obeying the will of this august body, as is my duty. If you now agree with me and see the imprudence of such an action, then you would do well to voice it.

As for those two companies of peasantry, I will be dispatching them as soon as ships can be sent from the main fleet. You are a competent general, and should not feel their lack. Besides, they are but peasants.

The conversion of Anatolia is far more important than Syria. We are currently in a war with the infidel, and the people's morale must be boosted with the preaching of the true faith.

Turning again to address the whole of the Magnaura, Ioannis continues.

Senators, the times are not easy, but I shall guide us through them with a steady hand. Have more patience, and we will emerge stronger from this trial.

Ioannis finishes speaking and exits the Magnaura.

A letter arrives from Vissarionas ek Lesvou. It reads simply:

Point of Order. The most ancient and revered of our laws requires the filling out of private armies ahead of all non-prioritized construction. It is not a matter for debate, and any man who cannot perform these duties is flatly unfit for the office of Megas.

Due to gross negligence of his duties I call for the immediate impeachment of the Megas. The Emperor should call an emergency session of the Magnaura to accomplish this.

Gentlemen I am sure it isn't necessary to remind you all that nations are founded on the rule of law, and where the law is trampled nations fail utterly and fall to dust. Do not let this happen to the legacy of Rome.

Vissarionas ek Lesvou

OOC: Since we're confusing an OOC rules violation with IC nonsense I figured I'd throw my 2 cents in as well.

:egypt:

[Ignoramus]

Ioannis returns to the Magnaura.

I am at your service, senators.

[AussieGiant]

I believe I will let the Megas respond in due course.

[TinCow]

A clerk shuffles quietly up to the Protoasecretes and whispers in his ear. The old man scowls and shakes his head, before waving the man off.

It seems that there has been a mathematical error in the treasury. This was discovered when it was noticed that there were indeed many large chests of florins lying around, which obviously conflicted with the notion of a completely empty treasury. According to the current count, there are 16,263 florins available for use.

[Dafuge]

Which seems to make the whole issue a bit brighter.

[AussieGiant]

It seems a clerical error has taken the sting out of this entire situation.

I'm sure that out of this very unclear situation a solution can be found to ensure stability and order can be maintained throughout the Empire.

[Ignoramus]

Ioannis rises to speak.

Indeed this is good news! It is indeed embarrassing that so many florins were mislaid. However, that is not as important as the discovery of these new funds.

Ioannis resumes his seat.

[OverKnight]

Hearing that 17,000 florins had been mislaid in a clerical error, Aleksios lowers his head into his hands and emits a seething hiss of frustration. He composes himself and speaks.

Good, it seems there has been a bank error in our favor.

The Basileus speaks again very quietly.

Have our money counters flogged.

[Ignoramus]

Ioannis briefly stands.

I also wish to publicly announce that I hereby adopt Strator Ioannis Kantakouzinos. He has served the empire and my person well.

Ioannis sits down again.

[Kagemusha]

Hector who has been listening dutifully for the senators, suddenly wakes up from his semi sleep after hearing the words of Caesar. With amazed expression on his face he stands up and replies to the Caesar:

"My Caesar, i will deliver these wonderful news to my master immediately!"

He bows deep and races out from the senate as quickly as possible.

[Andres]

Savvas stands up and looks around him.

It seems to me that some Senators owe the Caesar a sincere apology.

Instead of judging our beloved Caesar so fast and in the process showing him disrespect, they should have waited for him to come back and explain himself.

Now, if there are no more non-issues left , I'd like to get back to Arta for more pressing issues.

Savvas stares at the Grandmaster, Iakovas, at Kosmas' scribe and at Methodios' and Vissarionas' messengers.

[Ramses II CP]

OOC: What exactly has been explained? Igno still ignored the rule, he just didn't spend quite as much doing it as we thought.

:egypt:

[Privateerkev]

It seems the treasury was miscounted. I am glad that has been fixed.

But the Caesar still broke the Rules and deserves immediate impeachment.

Limitation 2 of the Mega's powers is clear.


(2) No money can be spent on any construction until all Prioritized Buildings have been funded, unless the Senators who Prioritized them agree otherwise. If there are multiple Prioritized Buildings, and not enough funding for all of them, the Megas Logothetes may choose which to construct first. Rule 4.3 takes precedence over all prioritized buildings.

Let's take it in parts shall we? The part, "No money can be spent on any construction until all Prioritized Buildings have been funded, unless the Senators who Prioritized them agree otherwise" means you must build prioritized buildings before non-prioritized buildings. The part, "Rule 4.3 takes precedence over all prioritized buildings" means you must fill armies before you build prioritized buildings.

Royal armies > Private armies > Prioritized construction > Non-prioritized construction

I know for a fact the Caesar has been authorizing prioritized construction. And we now know that he did this before building a Private army.

Let me draw your attention to power 2 of the Megas:


2) Unless otherwise restricted by the rules, the Megas Logothetes can do anything he wants inside the game except use console cheats, which may be used only as specifically allowed by the Rules.

By law, the Megas can not build a prioritized structure before filling the armies. Therefore, the Caesar very clearly broke the law. And while that might not be important to some Senators in here, Glances at Apionnas it is important to me.

We must impeach him now or our Constitution isn't worth the paper it is printed on.

Pauses for a moment.

Furthermore, I have checked the records. Savvas was the one who dumped an army in Belgrade. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1967924&postcount=255) Because of Anastatios's absence, that army is now locked in the town until he comes back or retires.

So, since it is locked as a garrison, it can not be used to fulfill any army requirements. And I guess this is what happens when you let drunks lead armies...

*edit*

OOC: I'll try to keep the OOC stuff in the OOC thread. ^_^

[Andres]

*3.8 – Impeachment: The Megas Logothetes can be impeached and removed from office by a two-thirds majority vote of the Senate. Impeachment takes effect immediately after the vote is passed. After impeachment, a fresh election is held to elect a new Megas Logothetes, although the Basileus may also exercise his power to become Megas Logothetes at that point. The Senator replacing the impeached Megas Logothetes serves out the remainder of the impeached Megas Logothetes’S term. All Edicts passed in the Senate session that elected the impeached Megas Logothetes remain valid, unless overturned by new Edicts at the Emergency Session that impeached him.

Well, esteemed colleagues. Get a two-thirds majority then...


EDIT: I'll follow PK's example ~;)

[AussieGiant]

Raising an eyebrow at Makedonios in response, Apionnas stands.

My question remains unanswered. Are there enough regiments currently in service that can simply be reassigned to bring all private armies up to strength.

If there is, then what is the issue? It seems our own bureaucracy is working against us. The fact that regimental captains are holding an imperial order that is out of date should not be the main grounds for calling impeachment. At best it is simply another clerical error.

I certainly can see from these reports that many units are available. If they are available then recruiting is not necessary.

Glancing at Ioannis, his eyes narrow briefly.

If Caesar Ioannis can resolve the issue within the next few years then it is certainly plausible that we can move on to more significant real issues.

[Privateerkev]

Pauses for a moment.

Furthermore, I have checked the records. Savvas was the one who dumped an army in Belgrade. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1967924&postcount=255) Because of Anastatios's absence, that army is now locked in the town until he comes back or retires.

So, since it is locked as a garrison, it can not be used to fulfill any army requirements. And I guess this is what happens when you let drunks lead armies...

And Apionnas, that means the answer to your question is "no."

[Andres]

Pauses for a moment.

Furthermore, I have checked the records. Savvas was the one who dumped an army in Belgrade. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1967924&postcount=255) Because of Anastatios's absence, that army is now locked in the town until he comes back or retires.

So, since it is locked as a garrison, it can not be used to fulfill any army requirements. And I guess this is what happens when you let drunks lead armies...

And Apionnas, that means the answer to your question is "no."

I 'dumped' that 'army' (3 units of infantry) at the time, several years ago, if I may add, because it were infantry units and I needed a fast moving army. At that time we were at war with the German crusaders and we had reports of other crusades coming our way. The German crusade was near the army of our beloved Basileus and I was in a hurry to get to the Basileus and to occupy strategic positions to force the crusaders not to come near the emperor.

And I didn't just dump those units. I sent those troops to Belgrade to protect our Northern and Western settlements which were underpowered at the time.

Maybe Makedonios has spent too much time in the East (selfishly paying attention to his own settlements instead of caring for the empire and its' emperor, like I did) to remember that we also have a Western border with aggressive, crusading catholics, who are obeying a religious nutjob called "The Pope".

Please mylord, do your homework before going on an unreasonable accusation spree.

Don't hold me responsable for the fact that Anastatios hasn't done anything useful with those troops for several years.

Savvas sits down, muttering words like "fool" and [inappropriate language].

[AussieGiant]

Shaking his head.

So a possible solution is to disband those units and recruit regiments in the appropriate places. While following the rule of law is critical and I will not contest that, in this instance, the situation and the absence of the General in question is untenable.

It seems common sense and practical considerations are lost in this Empire.

[Privateerkev]

Makedonios smiles a little when he hears Savvas's comment.

Blaming the absent man eh?

The fact is, Anastatios was long absent when you did that. It would have required only a cursory glance at the SOT to see that he left orders for all units that are left in his town, to be detained there indefinitely.

But I guess you were too busy drinking to keep up with basic field reports. Unless Anastatios comes back, or retires, those units are stuck there as Belgrade's garrison.

Turns to Apionnas.

Sorry, but it is actually illegal to disband Belgrade's garrison. Anastatios left very clear orders before he went missing.

Once you take garrisons and units in other private/royal armies into account, there are not enough units currently around to build Armatos's army. Therefore, by constructing prioritized buildings before seeing to all legal armies, the Caesar broke the rules.

We must impeach him before he does any more damage...

[Andres]

Makedonios smiles a little when he hears Savvas's comment.

Blaming the absent man eh?

The fact is, Anastatios was long absent when you did that. It would have required only a cursory glance at the SOT to see that he left orders for all units that are left in his town, to be detained there indefinitely.

But I guess you were too busy drinking to keep up with basic field reports. Unless Anastatios comes back, or retires, those units are stuck there as Belgrade's garrison.



Well sorry for not doing paperwork while being in the field working of my butt for the royal family while you were having fun exterminating innocent people and abusing little boys, Lord "Oh, I'm not responsable for the extermination of thousands of people because I felt a little dizzy while commanding an army."

OOC: ~;p

[Privateerkev]

Don't you have someone's trust to betray Savvas?

Go get drunk and scheme about people. It is where your true talents lie.

OOC: ~;p

[Andres]

Don't you have someone's trust to betray Savvas?

As you know very well, I'm not like you, Grandmaster... Besides, I never made promises to you.

Anyway, we could of course use the massive amount of florins we have to recruit whatever is to be recruited and move on with more important issues.

But please, be my guest and continue this senseless nitpicking.

What are we? A bunch of bickering, greedy lawyers earning money with long and meaningless procedures?

[AussieGiant]

I'm not disputing what has been written down on paper Senator Makedonios. It is clear that the orders are up to date and correct. BUT, the commander has not been seen for years. Are we seriously saying that we sit here while an entire army is available and do nothing because of what has been written on a piece of paper?

I hope this level of bureaucracy does not lead to anything more serious if all common sense and initiative can not be used at all times.

If we have truly reached this level then we have not real hope of advancing as an Empire.

[Privateerkev]

Looks at Savvas

Really? Name one person I've betrayed. You however are known for offering your services to the highest bidder. Like when you offered to be a spy within the Houses.

And this isn't some legal nitpick. By denying Armatos his army, the Caesar has put thousands of Imperial citizens at risk. The Order is about to be involved in a war on two fronts. And while we support both wars, we naively assumed we would at least get the minimum required amount of resources mandated by law!

We're not asking for bells and whistles gentlemen. The Caesar providing this army now would be good but it will not stave off calls for impeachment. Because the damage is already done. If Iakovos is correct, and an army is bearing down on Adana, then the Caesar's politicking might very well cost Iakovos, and the citizens of Adana, their lives. Armatos should be up north with his army. But he doesn't have one BECAUSE THE CAESAR KNOWINGLY AND WILLINGLY BROKE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!

Those of you who cried out for Hypatios to be punished for breaking edicts, yet defend a man who craps on our Constitution, needs to have their heads examined...

Some of you care more about politics than the Empire. Savvas and Apionnas make me sick...

OOC: AG, until Anastatios's avatar is removed from the game, those units are locked in Belgrade unless a CA passes to unlock them.

[Andres]

I suggest we send out Makedonios with a pencil and some blanco parchments to conquer Egypt and to defeat the Seljuks.

Savvas takes a goblet of wine.

A toast to our Bureaucratic Hero with the Swift Pencil.

Savvas drinks.

[Privateerkev]

Well we don't have much more than that. One of our armies is a joke. And the other doesn't even exist. Again I will state, thousands of Imperial Citizens are at risk due to the Caesar's violations.

I weap for the day when he actually leads this Empire...

[AussieGiant]

Rather alarmed Apionnas recoils slightly at Makedonios final remark.

My apologies for having a physical effect on you Lord Makedonios. That is certainly not my intention.

Taking a napkin Apionnas places it on Makedonios bench.

It seems we are predicting the future in this chamber my Lord. While the situation is concerning, it is entirely salvagable. Until provinces and battles are lost your comments are "hypothetical" at best.

I'm not sure given the current constitutional situation that pursuing impeachment at this time will bring satisfaction to those that wish it.

Turn back to Makedonios.

You strike me as an idealist and that is commendable. I, on the other hand have been taught pragmatism and calculation are the best tools for success.

Given the Basileus is the only one who can call for an Emergency session, then perhaps your request can be parlayed into something less dramatic behind the scenes. This might be a better way to negotiate something of satisfaction for the "Impeachment" group.

May I be of assitance in enabling this option Lord Makedonios?

[Andres]

Well we don't have much more than that. One of our armies is a joke. And the other doesn't even exist. Again I will state, thousands of Imperial Citizens are at risk due to the Caesar's violations.

Grandmaster, it's not because you speak the most in this body that you are right. But enough slander and insults.

I apologise to my colleagues and to the Basileus for this bad display. I got carried away by my emotions.

Grandmaster, there's the law and there's reality. The unfortunate mistake made by the Caesar (a mistake he wouldn't have made if not for some incompetent money counters) can be easily corrected.

I am sure that within no time the retrieved florins will be spent to strenghten your armies.

Don't make a mountain out of a hill. These are difficult times that require us to focus on the forces that are threatening our Empire: the catholics, the seljuks and the fatamids.

Let us not waste valuable time and energy on internal, and in fact meaningless, struggles.

[Privateerkev]

Makedonios visibly relaxs a bit.

If I get visibly upset, it is because so many lives are at stake for what I perceive to be petty reasons.

What I still do not understand is how can the same people that lambasted Hypatios for breaking the law, act so seemingly unconcerned when the Caesar breaks an even more sacred law.

Many of you ignored the moral and religious implications of Hypatios's actions and assaulted him on the sole basis that he willingly broke an Edict.

And now some of those same people defend the Caesar willing and knowingly breaking a Rule.

Can you see where I perceive hypocrisy?

If either of you can explain your contradictions, it would be most helpful.

[Kagemusha]

Ioannis Kantakouzinos enters the Senate.He marches before the Caesar, kneels and addresses him.

"My Lord. I humbly thank you and accept to be your adopted son. As son, my loyalty to you will be even if possible stronger then as your vassal. Thank you, if i may call you...father."

Then Kantakouzinos turns to address the rest of the senate.

First i would like to thank those who congratulated my humble person for the victory against the rebels in Carpaths. Also i would like to give personal thanks to Senator Savvas ek Militou, for his generous gift of delicious wine which was consumed with pleasure. And last..."

Ioannis takes a brake and stares in the direction of Grandmaster.

"Last time i was here you called me an idiot, because of my principles. Now you questioned my word and word of my closest man in front of this esteemed Senate. practically calling us liars, while proven wrong afterwards. Also you are trying to impeach the Caesar, for technicalities. I have no doubt in my mind that if there has been some minor problems with the government functions, Caesar will handle those efficiently and quickly and your schemes to get him out of the office of Megas Logothes will lay in ruins ultimately. In top of it all. It seems that you are calling everyone who does not agree with you, liars,idiots, traitors, drunkards and many other despicable things...."

Kantakouzinos turns his eyes from Makedonias to Basileus.

"I just wonder if that kind of behaviour is suitable for senator of the Roman empire?"

Ioannis bows to the direction of Basileus and takes his seat among the Komnenodoukai.

[Andres]

Makedonios visibly relaxs a bit.

If I get visibly upset, it is because so many lives are at stake for what I perceive to be petty reasons.

What I still do not understand is how can the same people that lambasted Hypatios for breaking the law, act so seemingly unconcerned when the Caesar breaks an even more sacred law.

Many of you ignored the moral and religious implications of Hypatios's actions and assaulted him on the sole basis that he willingly broke an Edict.

And now some of those same people defend the Caesar willing and knowingly breaking a Rule.

Can you see where I perceive hypocrisy?

If either of you can explain your contradictions, it would be most helpful.

Grandmaster, I'm sure that you will agree with me that there's a difference between a) not having spent florins that the Caesar sincerely didn't know to be available because of incompetent money counters and b) killing thousands and thousands of innocent people against the will of the Senate.

It will take no longer then a year or two to correct the former, unintentional, mistake. The attrocities committed by Hypatios however...

[Privateerkev]

Ignoring Kantakouzinos, he addresses Savvas.

But the issue is not the money. The issue is that the Caesar built priortized construction before raising armies required by law. The law is cut and dry just like it was when Hypatios violated an Edict.

The Caesar broke the law and none of you can whitewash this very basic fact. And to even attempt it is quite puzzling. So, according to you Savvas, laws can be broken by some people and not others?

If we let the Caesar get away with this, then our very Constitution is worth little more than toilet paper. We might as well have anarchy.

Those who defend the Caesar are stuck defending a lawbreaker pure and simple.

[AussieGiant]

Black and White are colours that exist, so do other colours.

I would argue that I've always stayed objective in my approach. The most effective way to ensure Hypatios was never able to do what he did again was to focus on the law and expressly handle the issue that way due to the emotive topic and the actual death of many thousands of people.

In this case NOTHING in the form of consequences have occurred and there has certainly been no direct deaths at this time. If that was to change then so would my stance. I agree that the likely event of consequences is certainly higher than prior to the Megas's actions, but NO one has died at this time. THAT is a real difference.

I must admit internal faction fighting and squabbling sits poorly with me. That is how I classify this issue. More importantly the situation is reversible and easily done given the appalling error in auditing that has been corrected.

Breaking the law is serious, killing thousands of people because of it, is not of the same weight or significance as this.

If the Megas corrects the issue then it will simply be a incident that was resolved. I hope that is how our Ceasar responds. To do otherwise will invite the impeachment that has been requested.

It seems entirely in his power to turn this issue into one of "temporary non compliance" with the constituation.

Conducting logic debates in the realm of ethical behaviour IS without doubt like trying to mix oil and water. Please don't ask me to explain why that is the case.

[Andres]

Ignoring Kantakouzinos, he addresses Savvas.

But the issue is not the money. The issue is that the Caesar built priortized construction before raising armies required by law. The law is cut and dry just like it was when Hypatios violated an Edict.

The Caesar broke the law and none of you can whitewash this very basic fact. And to even attempt it is quite puzzling. So, according to you Savvas, laws can be broken by some people and not others?

If we let the Caesar get away with this, then our very Constitution is worth little more than toilet paper. We might as well have anarchy.

Those who defend the Caesar are stuck defending a lawbreaker pure and simple.

Oh, but I am sure the Caesar looked at the finances of the empire and then gave his orders, only to notice later, due to incompetent money counters, that the florins that were there when he gave his orders, had been disappeared, thus forcing him to revoke the orders he gave.

I don't believe the mistake made by the Caesar was intentional. And I'm sure it will be rectified in no time.

There's a difference between violating a law intentional or unintentional. And the violation of the law by Hypatios also damaged the Empire as a whole. Where's the damage for our Empire, Makedonios? What disasters have happened because of the non recruiting of units? How many innocents died because the Caesar did not send you a few hundred peasants?

Hypatios' violation is not to be compared with the Caesar's mistake.

[Privateerkev]

By law, you can not temporarily break the law.

There is no going back from this. If we let this go unpunished, then what's next?

Any Megas who knowingly breaks the Constitution deserves immediate impeachment.

The Constitution is a sacred document. Above Edicts. Embraced and supported by this body.

If we let it be assaulted, then we will have no further purpose for the Senate. None.

If someone does not like a part of the Constitution, he can lobby to have it amended. The Caesar bypassed this and used his sole discretion to conveniantely ignore parts of it.

He has therefore bypassed us. If he wanted the power to build buildings before filling legally mandated armies, he should have passed a CA to that affect.

That would have been proper. But he didn't. He ignored us. He thinks he is above the law. So now, the law will need to show him that he isn't.

I will not rest until this man is impeached for his crimes against the Senate.

[AussieGiant]

By law, you can not temporarily break the law. Interesting statement. One that will cause debate amongst our theologians for centuries I believe. The inability to see grey and those areas of greyness is of concern. As there is no ability to engage you in this area Lord Makedonios then I will retire from the debate.

And by all means Lord Makedonios, execute your desires on this topic. I am interested to see what the outcome will be.

[Privateerkev]

The Constitution is black and white. It has to be. There is no grey on this issue. If you ignore, or willfully violate a Rule, then that is in and of itself, against the Rules.

No amount of obfuscation from the Caesar's allies can hide the facts that he treats our Constitution as a minor inconvenience.

[Andres]

I put my trust into the wisdom of the Basileus.

In the end, it's up to him to decide if an Emergency Session is required for this matter.

I hope I won't have to return to this place again, before the next regular Senate Session.

[Privateerkev]

So, a Megas can ignore the Constitution if he has the political allies to support his illegal actions?

This is a dark and sad day in the history of the Empire...

[ULC]

Iakovos returns with even more paperwork then before. He reviews what has been said from one of the Order's scribes.

"May I ask why my concerns about Adana have been shoved under the rug? May I ask why we do not actually speak of taking steps to resolve the troop recruitment issue, and instead become hung up on whether or not what the Caesar has done is illegal, which I believe it is? May I ask what has been done to actually remedy our failing treasury? More money is indeed being spent then is earned, and unless we actually stop this hemorrhaging of our coin, then we will find ourselves discussing the exact same thing we have before senators. So, in the interests of the Empire, shall we put aside our past differences in order to resolve this issue, or will we let our own political interests tear us apart?"

[Privateerkev]

Iakovos, I am afraid you are still young and have much to learn in the Senate. See, when you are really poweful, and have lots of allies, you can do what ever you want. Therefore, our laws are now completely meaningless. In fact, if you wish, you can now simply recruit things from Adana yourself. There is a law that says you can't but the Senate is not concerned about making sure people follow the laws. If there is not enough money in the treasury for recruitment, simply sell off the buildings in cities that are governed by people you happen to not like. It's against the law of course but the Senate has left me convinced that no one will stop you. I have learned today that laws are trivial inconveniences. To be taken seriously if, and only if, it benefits you politically to do so. So go forth and do what is needed to defend Adana. The Senate will be far too busy licking the Caesars backside to stop you.

Turning once again to the Senate.

I'm amazed at the arguments people are coming up with to defend the Caesar. Now, I hear that what he did wasn't that bad because he hasn't happened to kill anyone yet. What is remarkable about that is that the same people did not use morality when it came to Hypatios. Back then I heard killing is just part of war and these things just happen. No, the only point many in here drove home was the fact that Hypatios broke the law. The lives of 6000 meant nothing to these men. Only the audacity of Hypatios ignoring an Edict stirred them. Now all of a sudden breaking the law is perfectly ok if no one dies as a result.

He turns quickly to Iakovos.

Make sure no one dies when you break the law defending Adana.

Turns back to the Senate.

Am I one of the only people in here that cares about the Constitution? So, when someone violates the Constitution at your expense, should I just stay quiet? Or would you hope, as I do, that people will put aside personal politics and defend this fine governing body. If we let this pass, we will set a precedent that will haunt us forever.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Efstathios' scribe looks towards the Grandmaster..

My master, Efstathios Laskaris, cares about the Constitution. He have said before that Caesar is not ready to rule and should learn how to do that in Constantinople and not running on the outskirts of the Empire like a headless chicken. To my Master it seemed that Caesar is running away from the real fight and perhaps building armies in northern Anatolia just to take over the Empire!
Although looks like His words reached the Magnaura too late to make any difference I did mentioned his view on the current matter.

[Privateerkev]

Makedonios turns to the scribe.

I appreciate your master's words. But he, along with all of House Asteri knew this might happen. I warned them quite clearly that the Caesar was going to put people in danger for political reasons. Also, I fear for your master, as well as all of the Crusaders. I believe the Caesar is going to do all he can to make sure the Crusade fails.

And I fear no one will stop him because we don't care about trivial things like "rule of law" here in the Senate.

[Ferret]

I know how you feel about your army Makedonios. Last term I was denied my right for the entire term but did anything happen? No, it did not. Ameplas broke a law just the same as I did yet nothing happened. I, on the other hand, lost my rank and was removed from a house of men that I thought were my friends. Now I think I can safely say the whole Empire is against me.

Life is unfair Grandmaster, it's about time you got used to it.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

My master took the risk of being abandoned when he joined the Crusade.
Looks like this is the case what happened now.
If I remember correctly then he said .. "there will be a day when this Empire will collapse and this is just because the Nobles aren't afraid of the Senate anymore."
The last time we talked, it was just a hour before he sailed away, he hoped that the Senate will become stronger and make sure that all those who go against the Will of the Senate shall get the maximum punishment!

[Privateerkev]

Hypatios,

If you were truly denied an army, you should have brought it to Kalameteros's attention. Or, announced it in the Senate. No one can deny you the right to a legally mandated army. Period.

If you refused to act, to protect your own rights, you have no one to blame but yourself.

If you want an army now, I'm sure you could just take custody of the one in Iconium. The Senate has led me to believe no one will stop you. It's illegal of course but that is just a petty technicality.

Basically, you were hung out to dry because you became politically inconvenient. Few in here were truly outraged at what you did. Only myself, the rest of the Order, and a couple others. The rest claim to have been mad that you broke a law but they now provide political cover to another lawbreaker.

I would feel sorry for you except for the fact that your a monster.

[Ferret]

Hypatios,

If you were truly denied an army, you should have brought it to Kalameteros's attention. Or, announced it in the Senate. No one can deny you the right to a legally mandated army. Period.

If you refused to act, to protect your own rights, you have no one to blame but yourself.


OOC: I was on holiday :laugh4:

[ULC]

Iakovos cradles his head in his hands.

"Grandmaster, please with all due respect, do not stoop to their level, because I will not. I would prefer it if the inflammatory statements stop, they are counterproductive and they do nothing to actually solve our dilemma."

Iakovos pulls out a paper.

I think it would help everyone if we started assigning units to the armies, with balance and practicality in mind.

These are the current Senators who require/have armies, and current numbers and relative strengths of each unit.

Emperor Aleksios Komnenos - Spear Militia, four regiments with respective strengths of 101, 112, 63, and 56 men each; 3 regiments of Skythikon with 1 regiment at 56 and the other 2 at 60; A single regiment of Trebizond Archers at 53 men.

Makedonios Ksanthopoulos - One regiment of the following - Byzantine Spearmen, 97 men; Trebizond Archers, 90 men; Turkopoles, 57 men; Peasant Archers, 90 men.

Armatos ek Naksou - One regiment of Spear Militia, 112 men.

Ioannis Kalameteros - Spear Militia, 3 regiments, each at 67, 55, and 77 men respectively; 2 regiments of Byzantine Spearmen, each at 46 and 37 respectively; 1 regiment of Town Watch, at 49 men; 6 regiments of Skythikon, each at 41, 36, 38, 47, 26, and 27 men respectively; 1 regiment of Armenian Archers, at 87 men; 1 regiment of Trebizond Archers at 73 men.

Markianos Ampelas - 4 regiments of Spear Militia, 3 at 112 men and one at 108 men; 5 regiments of Skythikon, each at 50, 33, 59, 57, and 57 respectively; 1 regiment of Armenian Cavalry, with 59 men; 1 regiment of Turkomans, at 46 men; 1 regiment of Armenian Archers, at 89 men; 1 regiment of Mercenarty Crossbowmen, at 90 men; 1 regiment of Trebizond Archers, at 83 men; 1 regiment of Byzantine Spearmen, at 99 men.

Zigavinos Vasilakios - Is currently with Ioannis Kalameteros.

Caesar Ioannis Komnenos - 1 regiment of Alan Light Cavalry, 60 men; 2 units of Turkomans, each at 60 men. The following units are in Trebizond at the moment, although I believe they are a part of the Caesars Royal Army; 2 regiments of Byzantine Spearmen, one at 112 men and the other at 60 men; 2 regiments of Trebizond Archers, one at 67 men and the other at 70 men; 2 regiments of Mercenary Saracens, both at 90 men; 1 regiment of Alan Light Cavalry, at 60 men; 1 regiment of Peasant Archers, at 90 men.

As previously stated, there is 9 available regiments to give to the Order. I think, that with 1 or 2 regiments from at least 1 other army, and the Order will have enough men to begin credibly defending the Levant and Adana.

Iakovos stands, his gaze determined and his speech strong and steady. "Senators, we each have a stake in each other, whether you wish to recognize it or not. If one part falls, then the others will begin to follow. So, in the interests of the Empire and yourselves, let us try to work this out."

[Andres]

Savvas nods in approval.

Senator Iakovos ek Kallipoleos may be young, but at least he offers real solutions.

[deguerra]

I have heard quite enough!

First, I was outraged, truly outraged and very outraged at what happened at Iconium and in no way removed Hypatios because he became "politically inconvenient". Quite frankly, Hypatios was very convenient and a useful man, but one I refused to work with because I was outraged.

Nor was he expelled from Asteri for breaking the law, as anyone who had the simple decency to listen to what I said at the time might remember, but for the gross disservice he did to the House in doing so and for betraying our trust.

Second, although the Grandmaster makes it difficult to agree with him by resorting to childishly sarcastic remarks in lieu of actual debate, I do understand and share some of his fears, even if, as he so flatteringly reminds this House, I voted for the Caesar.

Can we perhaps agree to send a formal warning to this Megas Logothetes that his actions are not worthy of the office he occupies and that we will be watching him closely for the rest of the term. That way this incident will not be blown out of proportion nor be belittled by either side for their petty political clamoring, of which, quite frankly, I grow very tired.

[Privateerkev]

It seems no one stops with the political obfuscation until their egos are threatened. While I will refrain from that form of speech for now, I will reserve the use of it if it gets through to people when lives are on the line.

I am absolutley embarrassed to see such blatant political manuavering these days. There are many of you who are manuavering behind the scenes for your own benefit. You hitched your cart to the Caesar and now he is not pulling you where you want to go. Do not take your anger out on me for shedding light on this issue.

As to Iakovos's list, it is a little optimistic. Let's look at it:


At Belgrade - We have 1 Regiment of Trebizond Archers, with 64 men, 3 regiments of Byzantine Spearmen at 103, 93, and 81 men.

At Constantinople - 5 regiments of Spear Militia all at 112 men, although only one is available for use, all other being on garrison duty.

At Dardanellia - 2 regiments of Dismounted Byzantine Lancers at 90 men each.

At Nicaea - 3 regiments of Spear Militia each at 112 men, although we should keep at least one there. It also has Ballista artillery with 30 men.

At Cyrpus - 3 regiments of Peasants at 112 men each, although one should be enough to maintain civil order.

Belgrade should be stricken. Those units are legally locked in and Anastatios needs to appear or retire before we can get them.

The peasants on Cyprus are already slated for my army to bring it up to bare minimum standards.

So, that leaves 1 militia regiment at Constantinople, a couple in Nicaea, and the Lancers in Dardanellia.

It would actually be faster to recruit all of that in the Levant. Well, except for the Lancers. But Antioch can recruit spear militia. And Nicosia can recruit peasant archers and spearmen. That means we just need one cavalry unit and Armatos's army is built.

Here is what a propose. Transfer the 2 peasants in Nicosia to my army to make it legal. Recruit 3 spear milita in Antioch. (I know Iakovos mentioned Armatos has one but that has to stay in the city to protect it.) Recruit the 2 archers in Nicosia and transfer them over. Throw in a cavalry unit from somewhere and Artmatos has his army in one year, maybe two. We have the money.

We need that army yesterday. Walking regiments for decades that we can build in the Levant is not an option. Because the enemy won't sit and wait for our units to march hundreds of miles over.

As for the Caesar, impeach him and put someone in who won't violate the Constitution. We need to set a clear precedent. If a Megas violates the Constitution, his term needs to end immediately. We can't afford to keep Megas's around who violate the Rules. Too much is at stake.

How is that for a real solution?

[Ibn-Khaldun]

My master, Strator Efstathios, proposes that IF Megas Logothetes have violated the law then it should be easier to impeach him. If the Megas is just incompetent then there is nothing more we can do than just blame those who voted for him..

[Warmaster Horus]

A young, healthy-looking man opens the door to the Magnaura, and discreetly closes it. It is quickly apparent through the look on his face that he is somewhat shy and hesitant in his manner. Which explains why he hurriedly goes to an empty seat near some unaligned Senators. He has a large number of scrolls under his arms, and immediately starts to read them. Once there is a lull in the chamber, he looks up, and stands to speak with a determined yet quiet voice:
"Senators, I wish to make my arrival here clear: my name is Nikiphoros Manouelitis, and I am the adopted son of the Comes Kosmas Mavrozomis. I am remaining in Constantinople for the year 1113, but I will move to another city next year. Thank you for listening, and forgive me if I bothered you..."
He sits down, and turns back to the scrolls.

[Andres]

Savvas stands up and nods to the newcomer.

Welcome, Senator Nikiphoros Manouelitis. Please don't get frightened if things get nasty in here.

Allthough the constant bickering between the Senators might suggest otherwise, we are all colleagues acting for the same purpose: the overall good of the Empire and the Royal Family.

If you have any questions or if you are in need of some advice, feel free to say so in here or, if you require some discretion, feel free to drop a note at my scribes' desk.

And if you want to get something of your chest, never hesitate to speak out your thoughts loudly.

I am sure you will make your esteemed father proud.

Savvas raises a goblet of wine towards Nikiphoros.

A toast to our newest member.

Savvas empties the goblet...

[00jebus]

*Lisas joins the toast, raises his goblet and looks directly at Nikiphoros Manouelitis*

The comes ek Miltou is right, although I would hasten to add that some senetors enjoy all the red tape and legal stuff more than keeping the spirit of the law. Try not to let them annoy you or tie you down and I am sure you will make your father proud.

[Kagemusha]

Ioaanis Kantakouzinos also raises his wine glass and says.

"Welcome, Senator Nikiphoros Manouelitis! Fresh blood is always good for the senate."

[Privateerkev]

Welcome Nikiphoros Manouelitis, I hope you brought your armor with you. Don't take it personally when some in here profess to be your ally today and then say horrible nasty things about you tomorrow. It's just how some in here try to influence politics.

[Kagemusha]

Kantakouzinos takes another sip from his wine and comments on the words of Makedonias to Nikiphoros Manouelitis.

"Also remember that devil has the tendency to talk and act like an angel. At least until he reveals his true intentions. Sweet and innocent sounding talk can drip poison, while harsh talk usually means what it says."

[Privateerkev]

For once I agree with you. My talk has been considered harsh by some but at least with me, you always know where you stand.

[Andres]

Savvas raises from his seat and starts talking, his voice full of sarcasm.

Oh, there are quite some interesting personalities in this place.

You have this very religious guy over there (points at the Grandmaster) who pretend to be on higher moral grounds then the rest of us, who leads an ascetic life, devoted to God, who behaves himself as the guardian of law order and civilisation. But once he leaves this building, he falls asleep while the army under his command slaughters thousands and thousands of innocent women and children.

[OverKnight]

Aleksios chuckles quietly to himself.

[Warmaster Horus]

Thank you all for your greetings, even if they seemed more like warnings and threats than anything else...
Perhaps all Strator Ioannis Kantakouzinos wants is a bit more wine?


Allthough the constant bickering between the Senators might suggest otherwise, we are all colleagues acting for the same purpose: the overall good of the Empire and the Royal Family.
Actually, it does suggest dissent. After all, isn't the most recent debate about our Caesar?

But I thank you all for welcoming me, and for your advice.

[Privateerkev]

Just like you have those who pass themselves off as jovial fun-loving individuals but you find out they are really quite bitter that their schemes have not been fulfilled so they resort to mis-characterizing events to embarrass those who they think have made their schemes fail.

Savvas, I hate to dissapoint you, but I am not the one responsible for your fall from political grace. In fact, I find you to be quite inconsequenctial. No one takes you very seriously.

Instead of making hints and jabs, why don't you just talk to me, or the Magnaura, about Antioch if it would make you feel better?

[Andres]

Actually, it does suggest dissent. After all, isn't the most recent debate about our Caesar?

Indeed good sir.

Most of us are very well aware of that and are loyal servants of the Empire and the Imperial family.

Others tend to forget that and think that a certain interpretation of the law combined with some false accusations give them a free pass to attack those they are supposed to be loyal to...

Maybe they were also sleeping while swearing their oaths?

[Kagemusha]

With a hint of a smile on his face Ioannis replies to Manuelitis.

But that is one fine idea indeed, Strator Manouelitis. Wine is my only comfort when listening to the daily ramblings of our glorious and saint like Grandmaster of St.John. But thanks to good Senator ek Militou, atleast this wine im having is of fine quality.

Ioannis says while looking the grandmaster and trying to look as saint like as possible.

[Privateerkev]

Loyalty is not the same as blind obediance.

I have remained loyal to the Empire, my Faith, the Royal family, the Order, and my friends and allies.

But I am no lapdog.

I challenge anyone to find one instant where I have been disloyal. And be specific in your charge. You may feel free to send a letter if you wish to make the discussion private.

looks at Kantakouzinos

But some in here rather act like they are in junior high. And they wonder why political fortune has not smiled on them...

[Cecil XIX]

Ah yes, 'a certain interpretation of the law'. You see, some of us believe that those who violate the law should be made to answer for it. Sadly, not everyone share that disposition.

*Armatos clears his throat*

Regardless, I bid you welcome Senator Manouelitis.

[AussieGiant]

Striding into the chamber a refreshed and now clean Apionnas takes a seat behind the Basileus. Leaning forward the younger man talks quietly to the Emperor and glances towards Makedonios on occasion.

Retaking his seat he begins to write.

[Kagemusha]

Ioannis looks at the grandmaster and asks?

"Junior high? Is that somekind of Syrian Brothel? As far as i am aware, my political ambitions have been full filled completely, by being able to strengthen the tie between Kantakouzinos and Komnenos families with being adopted by our beloved Caesar."

With bit more sharp tone Ioannis continues.

"It can be shock to you Grandmaster, but some of us actually are obedient and loyal subjects of the Imperial family and Basileos, while others may have grand visions of their own Kingdoms. Independent of the Empire."

[OverKnight]

Aleksios begins to drum his fingers on the Throne.

[Privateerkev]

Kantakouzinos,

Your idea of what I want is simply your own fantasy. If you insist of telling us of your fantasies and dreams, can you at least leave me out of them?

[00jebus]

He can't be entirely wrong oh honourable grandmaster, if you were content to serve the empire, you would be content with the armies the empire has provided for your order, they, along with all the order members are more than strong enough to defend your provinces.

[Privateerkev]

Why don't you come down here and look at the tactical situation before you tell me that the Order doesn't need what the Megas is legally obligated to provide.

[OverKnight]

The Basileus shakes his head with a trace of resignation. He rises and leaves the chamber.

[00jebus]

It appears to me, that your only possible enemies are the turks, the ayyubids and the templar order, that is, respectivly, a collection of tribes that have had their backs broken by the actions of two other houses, a kingdom thats about to face the full force of a crusade, and a bunch of monks

[Kagemusha]

" Grandmaster. Not with a single word i named you being the one who has such ambitions. I could have talked about anyone, but it seems for some reason you yourself associated yourself as that person."

Ioannis feels tempted to continue, but when he sees the tapping fingers of the Emperor, Kantakouzinos decides it is better not to continue verbal attacks against Makedonias.

[Privateerkev]

Regardless of your assessment of our threats, we still require those armies to defend the area.

[Privateerkev]

Oh please, do not insult my intelligence. With your constant verbal abuse, it is clear to anyone who it was you were speaking of.

Say what you mean, say it clearly, and don't get mad when someone refutes it. And that can go for everyone in here...

[Kagemusha]

The word was "some", not anything else and everyone here heard what i said. Dont blame me of revealing your own ambitions Grandmaster.
Gentlemen, now if you will excuse me i must leave for this evening."

Ioannis bows and walks out from the Senate.

[ULC]

Iakovos returns to the senate, a determined look on his face. Iakovos sees Nikephoros Manouelitis and gives him a knowing smile.

"Welcome Nikephoros Manouelitis, to our esteemed hall of intelligent debate. It is here we help decide the fate of the empire, at least it's legal fate, but don't worry, we are not all sharks in here."

[Ibn-Khaldun]

As "legal" as the "legal" fate can be...
Recent advents have just showed that some do not care about the laws..

Says Efstathios' scribe ..

[Andres]

Savvas looks at Efstathios scribe.

Good man, you do realise that you speak on behalf of your master, do you? I hope he approves all that you are saying in this sacred place. If he doesn't, than I hope you're the kind of guy who enjoys getting whipped.

A servant brings Savvas a report.

It seems like there are some rebels on the road to Arta.

Gentlemen, I have to rejoin my troops.

Savvas nods to the assembled senators and leaves the building.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Looks like that defeating rebels is becoming too frequent in here...
Would like to know how these 'brave nobles' fight against proper warriors who tend to fight back?

Saying that, the scribe ignores the remarks by Savvas.

[Dafuge]

I believe rebels are willing to fight back, and can be stubborn with not surrendering. I also see that for the Empire to expand we need to defeat rebelions in our own lands, otherwise there is no point of what we are doing here.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

These rebels and brigands are mere peasants with pitchforks ...
Where is the honor in fighting against them??
This is a job for the Captains and not to 'noble' Senators...
And those who have become part of the 'Royal Family' due to the fact that they murdered some local poor men, who were starving and took some handy weapons to protect their homes from the power hungry noblemen, is not honorable at all...

the voice of the scribe sounded arrogantly ...

[Andres]

Savvas' scribe writes down the words of his colleague.

With an embarassed look on his face, he adresses the Senators.

Noble Senators, forgive me this interruption, but I apologise on behalve of my colleague, Senator Efsthatios' scribe, who doesn't seem to know his place. I'm sure his own master would appreciate it if he would be removed from the Magnaura.

[Privateerkev]

Makedonios looked at the scribe.

Would Efstathios prefer that we let these men block roads and prey upon locals?

They need to be removed. Why shouldn't the nobles do this themselves?

He coughs into a napkin.

[Dafuge]

You mention the rebels are petty warriors with pitchforks, and ask where the honour in fighting them is.

I ask what the honour of fighting with them is considering some parts of 'Noble' senators armys consist of several regiments of them.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

If the governors wouldn't raise taxes into the level where men can not pay them anymore then there wouldn't be any brigand/rebel problem.
And the reason why so many peasants have joined the Army is that at least this way they can provide some help to their families.
Many of these brigands are just some locals and perhaps they would accept some money if they disband. This would save their lives and the reputation of our 'nobles' in the lower classes.

The scribe smiles and he begin to feel himself important...

[TheFlax]

A note replaces the one from the University.

The following have been accepted for the position of Scholar in the University of Constantinople for the period of 1110 to 1125.

- Comes Iakovos ek Kallipoleos
- Domestikos Nathanail ek Korinthou
- Domestikos Aleksios ek Ikoniou
- Patrikos Ioannis Kalameteros
- Ceasar Ioannis Komnenos

(OOC: Please send me the trait you wish to add/remove before the next Senate session.)

[Dafuge]

With our current finances I don't think we could afford to pay off every single rebel army that appears. It is also to my belief that public happiness is usually enought to stop rebelions in that area. Also many of the rebels are payed by other countries such as Hungary which is why they don't accept pay off.

[Kagemusha]

Kantakouzinos enters the Senate and after reading through the notes his scribes have made,he turns towards the scribe of Efstathios Laskaris and says:

"You wile Wretch! How dare you lowly servant call your betters murderers and criticize the actions of noble Senators, while you are nothing but a servant with an ability to read and write. I support Senator ek Militous suggestion for Basileus to throw out you from diet and for you not to return before your master has teach you a lesson in manners with a whip.

Ioannis loos down upon the scribe with disgust in his eyes.

[Andres]

Savvas' scribe looks very embarassed now.

Dear Senator Kantakouzions, please forgive me this interruption, but I am not Savvas ek Militou. I am just his humble scribe. My esteemed master is currently on his way back to Arta.

The scribe bow deeply and sits down again.

Please forgive me for this interruption.

The scribe bows again. The poor man starts to sweat and looks very pale. It seems like he's about to pass out.

OOC: Savvas left the building a couple of posts ago, it was his scribe who suggested to throw the other scribe out of the Senate ~;) RP'ing your "social drinker" trait are you? ~;p Give Savvas' poor scribe a glass of water.

[Kagemusha]

Kantakouzinos looks at the direction of ek Militous scribe with a comforting smile in his eyes and says.

"Do not worry. It seems that there are many scribes here who does not know their jobs. But you are not one of them."

Then he turns towards his own scribes and looks at them with murder in his eyes and says.

"Maybe many in here should concentrate on their jobs."

Ioannis nods to hector, who takes a firm grip of the shoulder of Kantakouzions main scribe and takes him outside, after a while echoes of screams can be heard in the senate.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

While Kantakouzinos talked, Efstathios' scribe didn't listened him..
Once he heard the screams of Kantakouzinos' scribe his eyes almost popped out and he looked towards Kantakouzinos .. fear in his eyes...

[Warmaster Horus]

Manouelitis' own look echoes that of Efstathios' scribe. He walks out of the room, and returns a few minutes later with a servant of his own. Manouelitis declares:
"This is my assistant, Pavlos. I am leaving for Belgrade, and he shall be my proxy. For now, good day, gentlemen."
This time, Manouelitis rushes outside, and if one were to look out the Senate, one would see a horse galloping away at full speed, leaving only a cloud of dust behind.

[Dafuge]

Loukas, Stavros's scribe, who was briefly dozing off, hears screams of pain outside. He quickly whispers something to another on his table and his mouth suddenly goes dry. With renewed vigour he quickly starts writing.

[00jebus]

*Lisas looks at his own scribe, who was too busy writing what the others said to speak himself*

If Kantakouzinos' scribe is too small a man to take a little pain and has to retire my own can duplicate his notes till he finds a replacement

*the scribe looks momentaraly annoyed at the extra work*

now before this talk of scribes taking far more responsibility than their paid to do, we were talking about if its right to kill brigends who slaughter merchants, block trade and generally slow down the reconstruction of our empire...

*Lisas looks faintly amused that anyone would think its wrong*

[Kagemusha]

Kantakouzinos enters the senate and takes the stand.

"unfortunately.The Imperial bureocracy has informed me that Makedonias, the grandmaster of Knights St.John would be eglible for me to adopt him. I have to respectfully decline this offer. I have explained my reasoning for him in private in this matter and do not wish to engage in public debate about this issue, unless he wishes to engage in public debate about the issue."

Kantakouzinos sits down on his seat.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

A man enters the room followed by two guards. He turns to Protoasecretes and says something quietly. Then he turns around and looks at Efstathios' scribe..

It has come to My Lords ears that someone is trying to undermine his reputation in the Magnaura.
He have sent me here to arrest that man and apologize about everything this man have said in My Lords 'name'.

The man who was known as Efstathios' scribe started to feel uncomfortable and a cold sweat ran over his face.

My Masters name is Efstathios Laskaris and that man over there pointing towards the scribe is an impostor.

The impostor jumps up and runs through the doors, the two guards after him. Just minute later a scream echoes in the Magnaura and couple of minutes later one of the guards enters the room and reports..

The man is dead. He tried to escape by jumping out of the window. Unfortunate to him he broke his neck.

After saying that he turns and leaves the room.

My name is Ioannis.. Well.. Not very original name I have to say but..
I am one of Efstathios Laskaris' bodyguards and will represent him from now on until the crusade is over.

The man bows and takes the seat..

[Privateerkev]

Makedonios looks a little surprised that Ioannis said anything.

One point of clarification. It was for sponsorship, not adoption. The same arrangement that Kosmas and Methodios made.

Sponsorship is a relatively minor bureaucratic affair. If those among the Imperial machinery see a noble do something noteworthy, he can be invited into the upper echelon of nobility. Which allows for noble marriages, legitimately recognized 'noble' children. And even the possibility of being named heir to the throne.

All that is required is a sponsor. Either the fates, or Imperial bureaucracy, decided to pick Ioannis as my sponsor. Again, him accepting would have been a relatively minor affair. Simply checking off a form. We never would have had to speak again on the issue.

But, unfortunately, partisan politics have yet again gotten in the way of simple smooth functioning of a government. Some people's hatred for me has grown so strong that they will throw every legal roadblock in my way. Some in here, looks at the Caesar have even broken the law to hurt me.

While I admit my time in here has given me quite a thick skin, even I was surprised to see Ioannis basically refuse to put a mark on a piece of paper just so he could hurt me.

It's expected that people in here disagree on policy and the direction the Empire should go. And it's expected that passions will rise and the debates will get heated. But the absolute cold-blooded attitude of some in here is getting to be a little much.

Charges that I "fell asleep while my army killed" and "touch boys" are not only completely false, but they do absolutely nothing to help the discourse in here.

Of course, my comments on some of you "licking the Caesar's backside" haven't helped.

Basically, Ioannis's refusal to sponsor me woke me up to just how vitriolic and harsh it has gotten in here. Many of us, including myself, are guilty of this.

Well, I'm tired of it. I'm done with these petty political games. Those who want to keep playing them will get ignored. Those who wish to engage with me on a real debate on what the Empire should do, are welcome. I'm sorry for helping the mood in here sour and I will do my part to raise the level of discourse in the Senate.

Like Ioannis said, this matter is settled, but I wanted to clear the air on some finer points of it as well as address the larger issue of rampant incivility that has been allowed to fester.

[AussieGiant]

Apionnas nods appreciatively at the words of Senator Makedonios while standing at the back of the chamber. Glancing sideways he sees a saged look on one of the Varangian Guardsman.

"He is very good, don't you think?"

The stunned guardsman looks shocked that he's been spoken to and starts to stammer something in reply.

"No need to answer soldier, I was really just talking to myself."

At that point a page rushes in and hands Apionnas a note. He reads it carefully, a raised eyebrow the only sign of emotion. The Varangian Guardsman tries to look uninterested and fails miserably.

Showing him the note Apionnas says quietly.

"You might want to inform the Captain of the Guard, and the Basileus while your at it. It seems we have a small situation developing."

He says to the back of the rapidly departing Guardsman's just loud enough to carry across the chamber.

"The Egyptians have just called a Jihad on the very ground we stand on..."

[00jebus]

I trust we wont have any opposition to kill these defensless and oh so misguided souls... pehaps we could give them stuffed animals and food and sit around and talk about our feeling about relegion.... whilst they try to stab us?

*Lisas says scathingly looking around for Efstathios Laskaris' scribe, notices he isn't there and continue's normally*

no? good, do we know how many and where the eygptian armies are?

If there at sea could our own navy or even crusade fleet intercept them in time?
If we are able to get a message to them of course.

[Privateerkev]

Makedonios reads reports and consults a map on his table.

It looks like the Caliph is striking back. I can't yet find any Jihad armies forming but they will be coming. If any from Egypt come our way, the Order will bleed them on the river crossings and mountain passes.

Of course... glances at the Caesar this would be easier if we could get our 2nd army off of an island. As a point of bureaucratic paperwork, my army has been officially transferred to Armatos. He now has his army. I'd like mine sent to me in Antioch with all due haste. If possible, I'd like some stronger infantry than peasants for my army. Even spear militia from Antioch would be preferable. With the Jihad most likely heading through Antioch, we need to be prepared.

Speaking of being prepared, I am still quite concerned with the lack of development around the Empire. I've noticed the Order's and Asteri's settlements sit idle except for prioritized builds. Currently, except for Belgrade, the only settlements building anything belong to the Caesar's House (Nicaea, Sinop, Trebizond), Emperor (Sofia, Constantinople), and those who are most publicly supportive of the Caesar (Arta, Bucharest). Regardless of the political affiliation of the nobles that govern provinces, all people are citizens of the Empire. While it is very kind of you Caesar to reward the nobles who support you breaking the law, I worry about the long term economic effect this will have on the Empire's infrastructure.

I also still worry at the lack of priests in the Order's provinces. Multiple priests sit on the border of Adana but will not cross it's border despite the fact that Adana is only 27% Orthodox. The Order's territories have a chapel and an abbey so at least 3 priests should be sent back to spread the word across the Levant.

And finally, would the Caesar be so kind as to tell us why, while a Jihad has been called on Constantinople, he has taken himself, Pavlos, and a relatively large army and marched them into Tibilisi with almost no supplies?

I look forward to the Caesar's answers. And to any debate that develops. I just hope that we can keep it civil this time.

[GeneralHankerchief]

*The Representative's head snaps up, as if the endless debates he had been tuning out were now suddenly interesting him.*

Jihad, eh? Right while our Crusaders are conveniently inaccessable? Yes, that is something the Caliph would do, dirty scoundrel that he is...

Fear not, though. His Eminence is preparing a statement urging us all to come together in this time of need. It should reach the Magnaura shortly.

[deguerra]

Having briefly left the Senate, Ioannis returns with a woman in tow.

I would ask that the Magnaura forgive my bringing a "visitor" into its halls, but this woman, Veronica, is of vital importance to the investigation into the organisation.

I have some questions to her myself, but I would like to allow others to inquire first as I am sure this is a matter that concerns us all greatly.

Speaking of which, I of course do not wish to overshadow the grave matter of the Jihad having been called against this fine city. While the notion of any Muslim army making it this far seems laughable at this present time we should none the less be wary.

The borders of the Empire need to be defended, and Asteri will provide all the support it can.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Ioannis, Efstathios' bodyguard, looks through some of the parchments in front of him and then stands..


Edict 3.4: The Megas Logothetes must keep at least one priest stationed in every region that has less than 60% Orthodox and where a church is built.

This is the law! Proposed by My Lord, Efstathios Laskaris. If Megas Logothetes will not send priest to Adana then this is the second time he have gone against the law! One starts to think how much longer we can stand this!

After saying that Ioannis sits..

[Privateerkev]

Makedonios raises an eyebrow.

While I fully agree that the Caesar has broken the law, he actually has not broken this particular law. See, Adana doesn't have a chapel. Because the Caesar has never authorized anything to be built in Adana. So, he actually isn't in violation of Edict 3.4 with regards to Adana or Aleppo.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

If so, then I must apologize to Caesar. My Lords info about the buildings in those settlements are a bit sketchy.
So, Caesar haven't broken the law, my mistake. But the Order can blame only themselves for not prioritizing building in these settlements, especially chapels and churches. Although looking our financial situation I doubt that Caesar could afford building anything new.

Ioannis starts looking through his papers and trying to find out other mistakes in them..

[AussieGiant]

Being the former governor of Constantinople has certainly meant he is better informed than others. Another note is handed to Apionnas by members of the administration.

Shaking his head, there is a total lack of emotion in his voice, however it carries across the room clearly.

My Lords, an initial report I have here from the Imperial information service indicates that Caesarea has fallen to the Turks and that Senator Ampelas may have perished. Neither point is confirmed at this time, but if true, then the Islamic response has begun in earnest.

[Warmaster Horus]

Pavlos, Nikephoros' scribe, receives a missive. He stands and speaks:
"Senators, my Lord Manouelitis is returning to Constantinople. It seems it's the news of the Jihad that troubles him."

[Northnovas]

The Duke of Corinth comes to the chamber and takes his seat it has been some time since he has been here. He now looks more scholarly then a military general with his years of self study. He reads some documents and talks with his scribe. He addresses the senate..

Fellow Romans I have received the news of the Jihad directed towards our great city. I have come to defend her. I will not tolerate such action against and will use all my resources to her defence.

To quote our Patriarch “war with religious implications is to be taken quite seriously, for its combatants are always more motivated. As such, this is why I fear the called jihad more than any political incursion into Byzantine territory.”

This is a concern but the situation is not grave with proper planning and execution we should be able to stop this incursion. We must remember our men are sailing for their lands and this could significantly hamper their resources for a Jihad. The only concern is other nations joining their cause. The Seljuk Sultanate has already tasted our blade and any other nation wishing to join must travel a great distance to get here. It is important to keep our neighbours to the west pacified and not try to interfere or take advantage of the situation. We must be aware of our resources in the treasury but now is the time to put our agendas aside and concentrate on total war aginst the Calipahte with our Crusaders and Defenders.

Let us work together and arrange for the defence of our city. It is time to mobilize an army the Defenders of Constantinople and put this Jihad to rest.

[deguerra]

It is with great sadness that I too confirm the great loss of Caesarea but the even greater loss of Markianos and his army. I did not have the pleasure of knowing him long, but our relationship these past years was a good one and he was a man of honour and courage, whose term as our Megas speaks for itself I think.

Gentlemen, this only proves what we knew already. Anatolia is far from secure and the Turkish threat is equal to that of the Jihading Fatamids.

Strator Savvas' suggestion is an excellent one. It would seem House Asteri has lost half its men under arms in one swoop, but I will not have it said we have no courage. Our second House Army, under my command will march East from Iconium. I will attempt to engage the Turkish army where I find it and regain that city. Once I am convinced it is secure, I will head to wear the threat of the Jihad is greatest.

I think it is time we nip these issues in the bud, rather than waiting for them to come to us. I will welcome any who wish to join me.

Also, the feedback of Strator Apionnas would be most appreciated, as he is still the man with the most knowledge of fighting the Muslims.

[Andres]

Savvas' sribe takes note of the rumors about Caesarea and calls a servant.

He gives a hastily written letter to the servant and orders him to get it to his master asap.

He then adresses Ioannias Kalameteros.

Forgive me Senator, but my master, Comes ek Militou, hasn't arrived yet. It was his Lord, Aleksios ek Ikoniou, who made a suggestion on this matter.

The scribe sits down, seemingly embarassed that he had spoken in the Magnaura.

[deguerra]

Ioannis stands and bows to Strator Aleksios

My humble apologies, friend, it has been a long time since your wise voice was heard in these halls and I confused you for your comrade.

[AussieGiant]

Bowing his head towards Ioannis.

It is a sad day to see someone lose their life so needlessly. I am surprised as to why Markianos Ampelas would sally against such overwhelming odds. It was a tactical error of the gravest kind.

Be aware my lords I will not be speaking niceties or words that you will find comfort in.

The military doctrine of the Turks and Egyptian is similar. Sadly we are not well equipped to defeat them with troop quality or quantity.

Our own Skythikon Horse Archers and Spear Militia cancel out their current regimental composition.

Our current advantage is four fold. Scattered regiments of Trebizond Foot Archer, our excellent heavy cavalry, Dismounted Byzantine Lances and Spearmen. The issue is that all these forces are only available in Corinth which is in no real position to reinforce the expected line of march on Constantinople.

Therefore we must begin troop quality increases immediately. At least two castles should be the focus of serious infrastructure increase. One for the recruiting of missile regiments and the other for infantry. Strategically these two castles should be Adana and Aleppo.

Apionnas pauses, clearly considering his next words.

I have been part of Jihad.

At this comment more than a few Varangian Guardsmen narrow their eyes at the Officer.

You can expect heavy levels of missile equipped forces. A hail of arrows is standard procedure for any Turkish or Egyptian Amirs. This will be followed by a solid number of spear equipment regiments.

When it comes to holy war you can expect fast moving lightly armed forces that will rely heavily on missile superiority and shock. Therefore my final recommendation is that elements of the Crusading forces land on the coast north of Jerusalem and head towards Alexandria and Cairo overland. This will hopefully mean any large Jihad armies can be intercepted and slowed while we prepare ourselves at home.

[Ramses II CP]

A letter arrives from Vissarionas ek Lesvou to be read into the record:

Nobles of the Empire,

Word has just reached me of the Caliph's call to jihad. I have but one bit of advice.

Put your faith in God!

Clearly the Caesar has failed us, in the most blatant of manners, by violating the good and necessary laws of the land and ignoring the most basic dictates of strategy. His gross incompetence, brought to power by your hands, is a matter of no small concern, but I say again,

Put your faith in God!

God and Patriarch will see us through this crisis. Those beloved of God, and devout in their beliefs, he will shelter through the trying times. Those whom he finds lacking, those who cower behind the lines and send armies of peasants against the might of the jihad, they will be rooted out and cast down. A time of winnowing is coming, a time when the weak and faithless are burned out of our ranks while the holy are gathered up in God's arms. Even to the last extreme I admonish you,

Put your faith in God!

Do not let faithlessness drag you down. Stand strong and fight on no matter the cost, and God will grant our great Empire victory!

When I reach Egypt, when I and my fellow crusaders drag down the Caliph, I will advocate treating him with mercy and having him sent to Constantinople in chains, there to greet any jihad army that might reach the city. Think on that, while the debate over the handling of the jihad swirls.

:egypt:

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Ioannis stands up..

A letter have arrived from My Lord. He thinks that Empire needs to go through it's finances and collect all available forces under some able general. Perhaps an Emergency Senate Session should be called to discuss how to defend our Capital and our lands from this Jihad.
He also is sad to hear about the death of Markianos Ampelas. My Lord understands why Lord Ampelas sallied out to meet the foe. He probably would have done the same thing.

[00jebus]

Speaking of being prepared, I am still quite concerned with the lack of development around the Empire. I've noticed the Order's and Asteri's settlements sit idle except for prioritized builds. Currently, except for Belgrade, the only settlements building anything belong to the Caesar's House (Nicaea, Sinop, Trebizond), Emperor (Sofia, Constantinople), and those who are most publicly supportive of the Caesar (Arta, Bucharest). Regardless of the political affiliation of the nobles that govern provinces, all people are citizens of the Empire. While it is very kind of you Caesar to reward the nobles who support you breaking the law, I worry about the long term economic effect this will have on the Empire's infrastructure.






I dont speak for the ceasar on this grandmaster, but it may be something to do with the fact that those newly won provinces didn't have the privalage of a working economy and were far less developed than those taken by the order, so will natrually need more investment before there profitable. Trebizond for instance, only had a basic range, no farms, no roads, nothing else!

Settlements taken by other houses were largely taken under previous megas', and have basic infastructure in place thanks to their actions, with more time to develop, they need less attention during the current term and the Asteri took two of the turks prized provinces, both comparitivly well developed if my memmory serves.

As for not spending more in our beloved capital, well, are you mad? its the trade capital of the world! who wouldn't try to exploit and secure that!

You have to spend money to make money grandmaster, your house isn't being neglected or deprived, though if I were in the ceasars position, I certantly would give in and ensure it was ill-equipped and prepared, given that you attack him seemingly without reason every other day, clearly the ceasar is a better man than I.

Pehaps you should find another hobby, I can teach you how to hunt if you'd like to try.

[Northnovas]

Aleksios acknowledges Ioannis......

No need to aplogize my friend my absence embarasses me I should be the one apologizing to the chamber. The news of Markianos Ampelas death is regretful. A settlement can be retaken but a man like him cannot be replaced. His tireless efforts will not be forgotten.

Can I ask for a moment of silence......

Thank you now to continue the debate we cannot bicker about the defense of the capital. Apionnas offers words of wisdom to defeat this enemy. We have Crusaders providing an offensive. We must coordinate our efforts to fight the enemy before the gates and defeat them soundly. There is no need for an emergency session. Let us put our personal agendas aside and work on defeating this enemy.

[Privateerkev]

Makedonios observes a moment of silence.

May Markianos Ampelas rest in peace. He was a good Megas. No matter how much he politically disagreed with the me, he treated the Order fairly. When there was not enough money to build in settlements, he made sure everyone went without at an equal level. And when our supply situation hit a crisis point, he did all he could to rectify the situation. While not friends, I learned I could count on him to put the Empire first.

Glances over at the Caesar.

Amepelas's Megas term was an example all here would do well to study.

Looks at Lisas.

I'm afraid your assessment of the Order's provinces is out of date. Aleppo and Adana were not bustling and vibrant communities. Adana was, and is, just a wooden castle. And Aleppo was simply a motte & bailey. It is only now a wooden castle because my rank gives me one prioritized build a term.

So, when you add the fact that my army is still largely stuck on an island, the Order is ill-prepared to meet the Jihad. And we only have the Caesar to blame. His partisan politics have clouded his better judgment and endangered everyone.

The Order isn't, and hasn't, asked for much. Just the basic infrastructure that is now developing across the Empire. And the use of the army that is legally mandated to us.

Armatos and I will take up positions on the two river crossing near Antioch. Let this Jihad come and we will at least give them a good accounting before we fall.

[Kagemusha]

Ioannis stands up and says:

"May Markianos Ampelas rest in peace. My condolences to his family and friends. I am myself about to move East over Bosphorus and help in any way i can to protect the Eastern provinces from Jihadist"

Ioannis takes his seat.

[00jebus]

Looks at Lisas.

I'm afraid your assessment of the Order's provinces is out of date. Aleppo and Adana were not bustling and vibrant communities. Adana was, and is, just a wooden castle. And Aleppo was simply a motte & bailey. It is only now a wooden castle because my rank gives me one prioritized build a term.

So, when you add the fact that my army is still largely stuck on an island, the Order is ill-prepared to meet the Jihad. And we only have the Caesar to blame. His partisan politics have clouded his better judgment and endangered everyone.

The Order isn't, and hasn't, asked for much. Just the basic infrastructure that is now developing across the Empire. And the use of the army that is legally mandated to us.

Armatos and I will take up positions on the two river crossing near Antioch. Let this Jihad come and we will at least give them a good accounting before we fall.



Thats fair enough grandmaster, pehaps if you had send reports on the current state of your provinces to the magnaura, instead of ranting at the unfairness of it all, and practically insulting a member of the royal family, then maybe some more funds would be diverted to the order.
I also find your facade of neutrality when it comes to party politics here rather odious, you do control the largest house, do you not? Let alone trying to drive a wedge between the others.

His voice softens

My sympathies to Ampelas' family, I am sure he will live on as an example to us all.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Although we lost a great general and even greater statesman we all have to admit one thing..
Once the Turks won the battle they did not exterminate or sack the city just like we had done to their cities..
No.. They remained civil and occupied the place.. Perhaps there is something to be learned here?

Ioannis looks around to see the faces of the Senators..

[Warmaster Horus]

Pavlos looks like he wants to say something... After a few minutes of moral dilemna, he says:
"With respect, sir, there may be a lesson to be learned once our treasury is stable!"

[Ignoramus]

A messenger wearing the Caesar's arms walks into the Magnaura.

"My master apologises that he is unable to be here in Constantinople to comment on the death of Senator Ampelas, but has sent me in his stead."

The messenger reads from a scroll:

"I am deeply saddened by the death of Senator Ampelas. He was a good man, and a loyal Roman. His death and the destruction of his army is a terrible blow for the empire. I trust that all senators will pay due respect to him."

[ULC]

Veronica seems to grow agitated, and finally stands up.

"You will all have to excuse me, I have children to attend to, and it is getting late. Unless you have questions about the Organization, then I will take my leave.

[00jebus]

*Lisas looks at the woman, and says as though humouring her*

Fine, How many members do you suppose they have?
how do they get funding?
how well equipped are they?
what are their objectives?
What style of attack do they carry out to fufill these objectives?
who is their leader?
what threat do they pose to the empire?

[Andres]

A messenger arrives and gives a scroll to Savvas' scribe.

My master informs the Senate that he deeply grieves for the loss of Senator Ampelas and he sends his condolences to the family and friends of Senator Ampelas as well as to the members of his House.

This is a sad day for the Empire.

The scribe sits down again.

[ULC]

Veronica's eyes narrow at Lisas.

"As many as they want, by any means necessary, better then the Order, what ever they want them to be, whatever is effective, the man who gives the orders, and one that your obviously not finding worth your time. Now, if anyone seriously wants to ask me questions, go ahead."

[Kagemusha]

Kantakouzinos turns into direction of Veronica and asks:

"Can you give us an overall report off the Organization? It would be then lot more easy to ask specific questions of the details."

[Andres]

Or just give us names!

Savvas shouts as he walks into the Senate, an exhausted look on his face. He adresses Veronica again.

Give us the names of the Senators involved, mylady! We have much to worry about: a jihad coming to Constantinople, the loss of one of the finest Senators, the loss of a just recently reconquered city, Catholic crusades coming our way, a Crusade and a war against the Fatamids and an empty treasury.

So, please mylady, I don't want to be rude and I apologise if I come accross like that, but we don't have time to waste, the Empire is in a state of emergency.

Give us the names of the Senators involved. If necessary, House Tagamata will guarantee your safety.

[ULC]

Veronica's gaze remains just as hard, but she sits back down.

"The Organization is a network of cells, each completely independent of any other save orders from the Guardian, the head of the Organization. Just to clarify Senator Savvas, it is only the Guardian who is aware of each of the members identities, no one else save him know who else is a part of the Organization, although I know of two: Markianos and Apionnas. The current Guardian, if you wish to call him that, is a man simply known as Symeon."

"The Organization's current objectives are unknown to me, although I did receive a disturbing letter from the previous Guardian before my capture. I suggest they not be taken lightly, at least for now, because they are currently in volatile and unpredictable hands. I wouldn't put it past them to strike now."

[Andres]

Markiaonos? You mean the late Markiaons Ampelas?

Savvas looks at Apionnas.

Senator, can you elaborate?

[00jebus]

I strongly suspect, ma'm, that you are not telling us everything, if you dont know whose leading them, how then do you know they are in volitile and unpredicatable hands?
If there objectives are unknown, why do you suggest they are not to be taken lightly?

If you are capable of giving an honest answer to questions when they are asked instead of wasting our time with sarcasm, then that would also be helpful, some of us do have more important things to do than worry about whats in the shadows after all.

As well as that, what do you mean by strike now?
at what?
given your past experience, what target or even type of target do you think they would attack

[ULC]

Veronica returns her hard gaze back to Lisas.

"I do believe I mentioned the current leader, Symeon. I knew Symeon only as he wanted me to see him, a yes-man and a fool, something I think your familiar with. And if the objectives of the original leader of the Organization were benign, then why would Symeon instigate a coup unless he wished to take it in the exact opposite direction? As of right now, the Empire is stretched so thin that if Symeon decided to act now, he could force it to collapse. I think his preferred targets and timing of it will be those settlements farthest from our own troops yet close enough to see if he can't divide our forces further, at around the same time the Jihad makes it's way into Imperial territory."

Veronica looks at Savvas with a less baleful stare.

"Yes, The late Markianos Ampelas was in significant contact with the Organization, particularly with Symeon."

[Andres]

The information you give is a little vague. Do you have evidence to back up your claims?

Also, can you give us specific information about the actions of this Organisation? What have they done so far? How is Senator Apionnas involved?

If certain information is too sensitive or if you don't know for sure who to trust, then maybe sending a detailed report to the Basileus himself might be a good idea?

[ULC]

Veronica considers each question of Savvas's in turn.

"Which claims? I see none that I need to reinforce with documents that I do not have. If you don't believe me, then don't heed me, but it does not change reality. If you want to know what Apionnas has been up to, then why don't you ask your own Imperial spy Kyrillos Lampinos, a former associate of the Organization. And may I ask, if Apionnas, the Emperor's right hand man is truly involved in the Organization, do you think it a good idea to send a detailed report he can intercept?"

[AussieGiant]

Apionnas moves forward from his customary position on the back wall of the chamber.

I would recommend the woman here ceases referring to me in this chamber. She is doing more harm than good.

Apionnas holds her in his gaze for a few moments to emphasis his point to her.

[ULC]

Veronica continues to look at Savvas while speaking to Apionnas.

"An inquiry into the Organization is being held Senator, and you have been in contact with them, so it cannot be helped if your name comes up. If you prefer, I can refer to you in pronouns. And I would request that you call me Veronica, not merely woman. I think some respect should be shown for the wife of a senator, don't you agree?"

[AussieGiant]

A raised eyebrow is the immediate response. After a moment he continues.

My lady,

I believe you have made your point to this chamber. Referring to me using pronouns is a little late at this stage.

If any one has questions they can ask me here or privately.

OOC: I'll be out for a few hours now. So responses will be delayed.

[Andres]

Savvas looks at Appionas and then looks back at Veronica.

Excuse me mylady, but Senator Appionas is a man who's loyalty to the Basileus has never been questioned before.

I'd like to hear more about this and I'm sure so will the Basileus.

As for my question about evidence, it's a reasonable question. After all, we are civilised men and this is the legislative body of the Empire. We are not going to judge a Senator who has proven his loyalty over the years based on mere accusations.

You can send the evidence to me. If you have reasons not to trust me, then I assume that you can also send your report to the Caesar.

Or hand your report over to the Basileus while he is present in the Senate so that we can all see that you gave the report directly to him and nobody can accuse anybody about having intercepted the report.

[Privateerkev]

Makedonios watches the proceedings for awhile. He almost visibly winces when Veronica brings up Apionnas. With a shake of his head, he can be seen writing notes and passing them off to various aids. If anyone is paying attention, they will notice that Veronica has been receiving notes throughout the session. It is not known from who she is getting the notes from. Finally, Makedonios speaks.

I'm starting to get concerned as to what is being brought up in here. I ask that Senators, and our visitor, exercise a little discretion as to what they reveal in public.

From the Princess's testimony in here, we know for a fact that some Senators glares at Hypatios are associating with this 'organization'. I would caution against giving these people too much information.

I ask that only generalities be discussed in here and all specifics be handed in a report to the Emperor. Then he can share that information with who he wishes.

[Kagemusha]

" Who´s idea was it to have an open hearing about this issue? If the senate is indeed infiltrated by this malicious secret society,. I think it would be best to put this woman, Veronica in protective custody under guard and the hearings should be done in private. What good does this do us, if the Organization knows also everything we are told?"

[Warmaster Horus]

Manouelitis opens the doors, walks to his seat calmly, and is informed of what happened while he was away. His manner seems to have changed a bit; he is less nervous, less stressed of being in the Magnaura. When the scribe finishes his story, the young man rises:
"Senators, I would first like to offer my most sincere condolences for the loss of Markianos Ampelas. If I understood correctly, he passed away bravely, going out to meet a foe three times his size, and has halved their number. This sort of act is to be commended, and I hope I shall be able to emulate his courage in future years.
I am sorry to say that my wish may be granted to me, for our situation is not glorious. A front has been opened, our Caesar and one of our largest armies with him are far from our lands, and a Jihad is headed our way. Now news of this "Organization" has reached us, and it seems to be a legitimate threat. And of course, there are continued squabbles in this chamber, squabbles which are likely to grow since dark claims are being made, with no true evidence shown yet."
With this, Manouelitis turns to Veronica:
"My Lady, I join Senator Ksanthopoulos in asking you to submit a detailed report to the Emperor, that he might help us solve this situation. It seems that the matter of the Organization is taking a priority over all other business; let us end it and turn to other important matters."
He addresses himself once more to the entire assembly:
"Senators, I ask that we let this matter rest if Lady Veronica will submit all her knowledge of the Organization to the Emperor, once, as Senator Kantakouzinos suggests, she is more than adequately protected. I finally ask that we take practical action against the Jihad and Turks, and that we decide of what we will do as soon as possible!"

[Privateerkev]

The Jihad does need more discussion. We need information. We need to find these armies as soon as possible and intercept them at natural chokepoints. We need to increase our spy network and watchtower lines. Picket ships will help as well, like the one that is operatiing off the coast of Jerusalem.

I'm concerned that the Caesar is still going through with his assault on Tbilisi. If his army isn't out of supplies, it will be soon. And we can use him and his army closer to home. If the Turks join this Jihad, then we will need to strike fast. For they have the shortest distance to travel. By taking our largest army far out to the frontiers and stranding them with no supplies, the Caesar is putting all of Anatolia, as well as Constantinople, at risk.

And I am concerned that there is still no development in settlements in Anatolia, except those governed by the Caesar's house. Cannakale just started building something and it isn't exactly on the front lines. If we are to defend this place from Jihad, then we at least need roads to move around on and buildings to train better troops. Further conversion will also give us more resupply points for our armies. But the priests are still standing around in areas that are well on their way to being converted.

If we want to stand a chance against this threat, then the Caesar needs to stop playing favorites and start building up across the Empire. If one part is weak, the whole suffers. While I am sure the Caesar would be overjoyed to see the Order destroyed by a Jihadist Fatimid army, I submit that we could do more good staying alive and destroying those armies.

[Warmaster Horus]

I am also concerned by the Caesar's action, yet in principle, he is doing what we should be doing: attacking the foe, doing something.
I am unfamiliar with T'Bilisi... Is it a rich city? If it is, then perhaps the Caesar has a good idea at the back of his mind.

[Privateerkev]

I don't know what it looks like now, but records (OOC: senate library photos (https://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b203/TinCow/LOTR/librarymap/Map18.jpg)) show it as a relatively minor castle.

I would like to hear what the Caesar has to say about this. With such a large threat coming our way, we are owed some explanation as to why he is sinking such a large amount of resources into a backwater outpost when it will result in keeping himself and a large army totally out of the coming fight.

[Ferret]

I am not sure Veronica is to be trusted, when she was given to me in Iconium, the man who gave her to me claimed that she was a member of an organisation, and that she had been involved in spreading unrest and generally hindering the empire. He claimed that the organisation is actually run in order to help our empire but this girl and her accomplices dress as members of the organisation and frame them as they commit foul deeds. What say you to this Veronica?

[Privateerkev]

Makedonios glared at Hypatios.

Seeing as the man persuaded you to exterminate a whole city, I sincerely doubt that the men who you talk to have the Empire's interests at heart. And the Princess has testified that this man was with you when she tried to take you into custody.

I am afraid your credibility is non-existent at this point.

And considering what you have put Veronica through, I strongly suggest you watch your tone when speaking to her.

[Ferret]

Excuse me? I met the man after the extermination had taken place and I treated Veronica with dignity, I asked a few gentle questions and let her free, nothing more.

[Privateerkev]

His eyes turned hard and his face showed clear anger.

Well that certainly isn't what I heard but I'll let Veronica speak for herself.

I'm convinced Veronica speaks the truth on these matters. Iakovos has vouched for her. And she did save my life once. While I am still not convinced that there is a 'good faction' in the Organization, I do believe that now she is trying to do the right thing.

It seems your contacts are trying to get you to discredit her. I'd like to know why...

[Ferret]

I am afraid you may never find out, I haven't spoken to the man since she was presented. If she has claimed that I treated her badly then I am truly hurt, because I did no such thing, even I wouldn't harm a Chrisitan woman.

[Kagemusha]

" I dont think that the Grandmaster understands the depth of Caesars strategy. He strikes an hard blow to the support area of our enemies, bringing the fight to them. This is how wars are won. Not by fighting defensive battles on our own soil.

Ampelas decimated the Turkish army, even if it did kill him. Now the Asteri army can take care of the rest and behind the Asteri army, reinforcements are massing up near Bosphorus. In my mind Grandmaster here is just looking for reasons to criticize our beloved Caesar once again, while the situation is under control."

[ULC]

Veronica nods to each of the Senators.

"Then that is what I will do. I will take what knowledge I have and report it directly to the Basileus. I meant not to question Apionnas loyalty, for I am sure he is loyal to the Basileus, as most of us are."

Veronica seems to freeze when she hears Hypatios's voice, and her body shakes in anger as her face and tone turns neutral to hide her supressed rage.

"Gently asking me questions seemed to have been the last thing on your mind that evening Hypatios. I have 2 children to vouch for it."

[Privateerkev]

Ignoring Hypatios, Makedonios answers Ioannis.

I fail to see the strategy in the Caesar's latest moves. And I don't have to look very hard to find things to criticize. He has by his own admission gone out of his way to hurt me and those under my care.

Before we know the situation, it seems unwise to send a large army far off in the opposite direction. I doubt it will distract the Turks much. They already have a large army in Caesarea and if it joins the Jihad, it will be near Constantinople in short order.

My guess is the Caesar is capturing a province to give to you. While in abstract that doesn't bother me, I am worried about the timing. The Caesar's army is low on supplies and will not be able to resupply in Tbilisi for years.

Before we learned of the Jihad, his move was less questionable. But now that we know of the Jihad's existence, it seems irresponsible to do what he is doing. We need him and his army closer to home and fully supplied. It is doubtful that a Jihad army will appear near him so he has basically removed himself completely from this war.

Again, I ask that he come and explain his moves to the Senate. We have a right to know. And I grow tired of this attitude that persists around here concerning the questioning of authority. The Megas was elected by the Senate and answers to us. We have every right to debate his performance publicly. Especially since he can be so hard to get ahold of privately.

Questioning the Megas is not treachery, it is patriotism. I desire to see every part of the Empire prosper. But the Caesar's actions smack of partisanship. And in my opinion, that is not good for the long term health of the Empire. And with a large and unknown enemy coming at us, it is actually dangerous.

He then hears Veronica's words and nods supportively at her.

[Kagemusha]

" I aknowledge your right to criticize Caesar, Grandmaster. But marching back and forth without accomplishing anything is the worse move he can do. I have personally suggested to swear loyalty to Pavlos Chrysovergos, so Komnenodoukai could raise an private army. If that would happen. I am ready to go and personally destroy the enemy. How i see the plan of Caesar is that he is being coherent and finishing one campaign before starting another."

[Privateerkev]

And that certainly makes sense. But I don't know if the Muslims will let us finish one war before we get into another. We can be jumped at any moment now.

In my opinion, Tbilisi can wait. The Jihadists won't wait. The Moors have already joined. And I am sure the Turks and Fatimids will follow. Their troops will have so much zeal, that they will either forgo pay or finance themselves. The armies of our enemies will swell. We're probably going to be hit from at least 3 fronts.

We'll do our best to stop them at one front but the rest of you need to watch the other two. And be open to the possibility that Jihad navies will put men where we least expect them. There is already a Fatimid ship with a raiding party in the Med. If there is a general on that ship, and enough soldiers, then it could join the Jihad when it lands.

But until we build up our early warning system, all of this is just speculation.

[Ferret]

Veronica nods to each of the Senators.
"Gently asking me questions seemed to have been the last thing on your mind that evening Hypatios. I have 2 children to vouch for it."

Hypatios is shocked by this news

You think they are mine? You accuse me of rape? I did not become a noble of this empire to be accused of rape by peasant girls, what is she even doing in here? Her fate is the Basileus' decision, she need not interfere in this place. And I will not sit in here to be insulted by a plebeian.

He turns to leave and on his way out pretends to slip by the order benches and forcefully knocks into Makedonios. He looks at him mischievously.

Slippery floor in here eh?

[Privateerkev]

Makedonios raises his arm to deflect the falling Hypatios. He stands up and faces the man.

If you want to assault me, then just do it. Don't hide behind the facade of an accident.

He stands waiting to see what Hypatios does next.

Now if you've regained your balance, we have real business to discuss in here.

[Kagemusha]

Ioannis steps in to the map and says to Makedonias.

"Grandmaster let us look at the map. If the Turk will be separated from Steppe and our forces can create an safe flank based on the Caucasus Mountains and the large steppe behind it. We can attack the Turk from several directions Sweeping from West and North. I think that Caesars campaign can ultimately give us victory in the war, because once we have secured another flank. We outflank the Turk and can strike him from several directions, while he can never be sure, from where the next attack will come.

About the safety of our core lands. We must remember that Basileus stands firm in the Balkans and can drive any threat to Sea if needs to be."

[Privateerkev]

Still keeping an eye on Hypatios, Makedonios answers Ioannis.

And I am still worried about the Caesar's supply situation. I know first hand how difficult it will be to keep an army fed. The local people will not give him anything until they are at least half converted to the Word.

If the Caesar is unsupplied, he will be in no condition to flank. And if he even tries, he will get the reputation of being poor at logistics. Such a stain will stay with him forever unless he studies hard at the university to get rid of it. Plus there is a chance he will get sick. Something I also know all to much about.

[Ferret]

Makedonios raises his arm to deflect the falling Hypatios. He stands up and faces the man.

If you want to assault me, then just do it. Don't hide behind the facade of an accident.

He stands waiting to see what Hypatios does next.

Now if you've regained your balance, we have real business to discuss in here.

Hypatios laughs loudly and leaves the room.

[ULC]

Veronica glares at Hypatrios before standing up suddenly.

"There is no need to accuse you, the evidence is at my home and is being raised by my husband Iakovos! And I am no commoner, must I remind you that I am married to a noble of this senate and that I am Veronica Da Milano, the duaghter of the last Milanese diplomat who died tragically in a fire and a cousin of the current Duke of Milan!"

[Privateerkev]

Makedonios watches the mad man leave. Nick and Ioannis, Mak's shieldbearer and veteran warrior respectively, had both stood up when Hypatios struck their lord. But they had stayed at a respectful distance since they received no signal to intervene. After Hypatios left, both men approached Makedonios and spoke in low tones while glancing at the door Hypatios left through. Makedonios simply shook his head 'no', patted his men on the shoulder, and took his seat. Nick and Ioannis saluted and took seats closer to their lord in case someone was ever stupid enough to do that again.

[Kagemusha]

Ioannis looks at the Grandmaster in front of the map and replies quickly.

"Does not that just show that Caesar is willing to put both his health and reputation in the line in order to give us victory in this war? I would call that an unselfish act for the good of the Empire."

[Privateerkev]

I see your points. I still think we'd be strategically better off if the Caesar was fully supplied and closer to Ceaserea with his army.

I am still of the opinion that the problems of taking and holding Tbilisi far outweigh the benefits. If there wasn't a Jihad, I would still be concerned by the situation, but not nearly as much as I am now.

Plus, contrary to what some of you might believe about me, I actually don't want the Caesar to get ill. I've been cursed with this dreaded illness for decades and I wouldn't wish the experience on anyone.

[Kagemusha]

"Well atleast then it seems that we are partially in agreement about the issue, while we may disagree on how to handle the situation. Does anyone else have opinions concerning the general strategy?"

Ioannis asks and then goes back to his seat.

[AussieGiant]

From the back of the chamber.

It would seem prudent to have the Caesar and his forces more centrally located in order to prepare for our defence.

[Kagemusha]

Kantakouzinos turns in the direction of the voice and asks.

"Apionnas,would it not be a better strategy for Asteri to reclaim Caesarea as soon as possible and then fortify the city in order to defend our central areas properly? Why is Caesar and his army needed there?"

[Warmaster Horus]

I would presume because his army is a very large one, something that could be useful to the Empire, if you consider that we'll have to face both Turks and Jihadists near there.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Ioannis stands..

I have a message from My Lord Laskaris. He thinks that all members of the 'Organization' should be punished through decapitation. And he means All members and former members.

Looking towards Veronica..

[ULC]

Veronica calms herself.

"I am sorry for that outburst."

Veronica pulls out a letter.

"I have here a letter from my husband allowing me to act in the senate in his stead while he remains in Adana vigilantly."

Veronica stares deeply into Ioannis eyes.

"You would wish for a mother of 2 to be beheaded?"

[GeneralHankerchief]

Patriarchal Representative:

What exactly is this Organization being accused of? For I hear much fearmongering but little substance.

[00jebus]

ah, the voice of reason.

pehaps you will listen to the churchs representative if you would not give myself, nor the comes ek miltou, nor anyone else full truthful answers when we asked

Dont try and work your way out of it by saying you'll present it all to the emperor, I am sure the captian of the guard would have something to say about leaving a former member of the orginaisation unguarded near any member of the royal family, let alone the emperor himself.

[Kagemusha]

Ioannis turns towards the Patriarchal representative and says.

"Has his holynes the Patriarch planned anything for the brave Markianos Ampelas? Im sure that loosing him was bad setback to the Church as well it was to the Empire. Some even say that he liked to confine to the Patriarch occasionally."

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Not me. It is Strator Laskaris who proposed this. Nut.. I would say.. "Once a criminal, always a criminal"

Ioannis looks away ...

[ULC]

"May I ask then how your master plans to answer for the sabotage in the crusade? Does that not fall under a criminal heading as well?"

[00jebus]

*Lisas looks at Veronica as though she's simple, though speaks normally*


Are you suggesting the Patriarch is responsible for sabotaging his own crusade?


Nevermind

[Privateerkev]

Makedonios interrupts with a grunt.

I fear we are getting off topic. The Patriarchal Representative has asked a fine question. What are the official charges against the 'Organization' that are being brought by the Senate?

A broad charge of 'conspiring to commit treason against the Empire' seems appropriate. As well as 'threatening the Royal Family'.

But more specifically, they have assisted in the extermination of Iconium which clearly violated an Edict. They have sent someone to assassinate me. They have harrassed, threatened, and I believe attacked, the Princess. They have kidnapped Veronica who is a citizen of the Empire. They are clearly criminals and I am sure we could find dozens of criminal codes that they have broken.

I welcome others in here to bring forth their own lists of charges.

[00jebus]

Yes, fine, Im sure we all agree that these men are scum, at best jumped up bandits with delusions of power, at worst skilled and deadly assassins, but the Lady Veronica, has not yet provided us, despite asking repeatadly, with a way of finding the orginasation, nor any knowlage of how they are equipped.
*He mutters* Instead she said some very unkind accusations as to my character....thats the Milanease for you... always moan about needing help but never tell you anything that will allow you to help them....until you owe them money that is..

*Normally*
Im sure the grandmaster, along with all reasonable men, would disprove of simply tourching large parts of cities in the hope of killing one or two of them,

*he looks at veronica* So, how about telling us where they get their money? or their weapons? food even? large groups are always tracable when you know this.

[ULC]

Veronica ignores the comment about her heritage.

"The Organization is equipped with whatever they wish to be equipped with. While Ignatios was with us, we had samples of a liquid fire available to us for instance. And as for where they get there money, well, I find this humorous, but the Imperial treasury itself. I'll let you know of which counters are with the Organization."

[Northnovas]

Aleksios stands and looks toward the woman…

Yes I think a good question has been asked and if someone can formally produce the information of this “Organization” that I have heard about but know of no substance.

Perhaps a committee could look into this along with the Basileus report from the woman and then proper discussion and action can be taken by an informed chamber. Till then I request that out of confidentiality that she be removed from the room so that we may discuss real issues and that is the defence of this city from invaders.

I am willing to remain in Constantinople and arrange for the defence of the city by forming a Tagmata of Noumeroi to garrison the city. We must coordinate defenders of the city and scouts to track the movement of the enemy by watchtowers and actively initiate contact with the enemy outside the region to wear them down before they arrive here.

[Ferret]

Hypatios returns to the Magnaura, looking deep in thought.

I have one more question for the girl. What do you know of the man named Gregorias, who brought you to me?

[woad&fangs]

A messenger pidgeon flutters into the Magnaura with the following message
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I have heard rumours that the Muhamedans are calling their own crusade against our capitol. If these rumours are true then I would like to offer my opinion on this matter. To my knowledge their are four routes that the Muhamedans might attack by.

*The Fatamids may attack northward from Acre. Luckily, God's hand has guided the heretics of the Reich into the Levant with a massive army. They should be able to prevent the Fatamids from using that route.

*The Fatamids may also attack by sea, sailing from the port of Alexandria. If this should happen then our brave crusaders will send them to a watery grave.

*The Moors may sail from the west. We currently have a large fleet in the Aegean. If it would sail to the southern tip of Greece then I believe we will be protected from the Moors.

*Anatolia is where we are most vulnerable to a crusade, or Jihad as the Muhamedans call them. My advice would be to attack and to continue attacking. Keep the Seljuks on the defensive and prevent them from preparing a counter attack.

~Solomon
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Andres]

But more specifically, they have assisted in the extermination of Iconium which clearly violated an Edict. They have sent someone to assassinate me.

Savvas stands up, a smile on his face.

That's interesting. I've heard rumours, I've heard stories, but I never, ever saw an official report about an assassination attempt on you. Are you sure it wasn't something you imagined during one of your deliriums caused by your illness?

Anyway...

Savvas looks at Aleksios.

Wherever my lord needs me, I will follow him. I as well volunteer to defend Constantinople.

Savvas sits down again.

OOC: Northnovas is allowed to move my avatar and the garrison in Arta.

[Privateerkev]

Makedonios looks at Savvas.

No, I am afraid it very much happened. I didn't say anything at the time because I didn't know it was part of a larger effort. A grim smile preceded the next sentence. Also, with the tone of some of you in here, I didn't think you would care.

I'll give a quick overview. I had a watch put on my window after Veronica here snuck into my chambers. The watch saw a man crawling up the wall. My men alerted me and we laid in wait in my room while a straw dummy took my place in bed. The man put a knife to the dummy's throat and I announced my prescence. Veronica appeared in the window and distracted the man. A fight broke out, three of my guards died, my shieldbearer was injured, but we captured the man.

Veronica knew him as part of a criminal gang that Symeon used to belong to. Apparantly, I was getting close to something with my investigations into who was harrassing the Princess. I locked the man in a cell. When I went to question him, he was gone. The group he belongs to had found a man and threatened him to take my prisoner's place.

That is what happened. If you wish, I can present witnesses, including three people that are already present. Looks in turn at Veronica, Iakovos, and Nick the Shieldbearer.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Patriarchal Representative:

I wasn't suggesting anything one way or another. I was simply ignorant of the circumstances.

*The Representative goes over the transcripts again, sifting certain things.*

[GeneralHankerchief]

Patriarchal Representative:

Anyway, I was under the impression that Hypatios exterminated Iconium on inspiration from a dream, not because of any temporal urging. Can we get clarification on this?

[Andres]

Makedonios looks at Savvas.

No, I am afraid it very much happened. I didn't say anything at the time because I didn't know it was part of a larger effort. A grim smile preceded the next sentence. Also, with the tone of some of you in here, I didn't think you would care.

With sarcasm dripping from his voice, Savvas says:

You're breaking my heart, Grandmaster. Don't talk such nonsense. Of course we would care. You're such a funny guy and a joy to be around.

Have some more wine.

Savvas puts a goblet of wine in front of Makedonios.


It is of course unfortunate that Iaokovs isn't here to confirm the story. With all due respect to Veronica and your shieldbearer, but the word of a Senator carries more weight.

But I guess this "assassination attempt" will also be included in the report Veronica and her husband are going to give to the Basileus?

Anyway, we have more important things to discuss right now.

Savvas looks at the tables of House Asteri.

Mylords, House Tagamata will march whatever troops they can assemble towards Constantinople. Once we reach the Capital, we will combine our efforts with the Emperor.

Is House Asteri able to recapture Caesarea and if so, how much time will it take?

I suggest the the Caesar, House Komnendoukai and House Asteri wipe out the Turks as fast as possible.

Savvas looks at the tables of the Order.

Will the Order be able to hold Antioch and the surrounding settlements until an army of House Asteri or the Royal Army of the Caesar reaches you?

Savvas then addresses House Komnendoukai.

Gentlement, forgive me, but can you shortly brief me on the current military situation of your House? Would it be possible for you to send any reinforcements to Constantinople or to the Order?


In the meanwhile, I suggest that the Crusaders combine their forces. We have to deal out serious blows to the Fatamids and we should break them by conquering their main cities. Therefore, whoever is beyond these petty sabotage attempts, please stop this. Combine your forces and cause as much damage as fast as possible to the Fatamids. The Crusaders cannot afford the luxury of striving for personal glory.

Religious reasons should be enough, but if some Crusaders don't care much about religion, then they should work together for the sake of the Empire.

Savvas sits down again.

[Privateerkev]

Makedonios first addresses the Patriarchal Representative.

Both Lady Veronica and Her Highness saw Hypatios working with men who belong to this 'Organization.'

The Princess included it in her report (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1975142&postcount=645) to the Senate.

Of interest is when she said, "Finally he revealed his true colors, working hand with a ruthless group who stoops to threatening children and aiding butchers in their bloody tasks. Some of you might have heard of this "Organization", well they were present at Iconium and at Machonios' side!"

I believe Hypatios was lying about getting a message from the Lord. He knew he was in trouble and he tried to make up excuses.

He then turns to Savvas.

I've already sent my report to the Emperor and had mentioned the assassination attempt. At the time, I didn't think it was something that had to be announced to the Senate. But I am touched by your concern and I appreciate it.

As for your questions about the Order's readiness, I am afraid it looks rather grim. We have 12 units seperated into 2 armies. The Caesar is finally delivering the rest of my army and it will be in Antioch this year. But the quality is woefully inadequate for the task at hand.

But my plan is to hold the 2 river crossings near Antioch. With two armies, we can block what ever path the Jihad takes to us. That should stall the enemy long enough for the rest of you to send a relief force to the mountain pass that links Adana to Antioch.

If the timing is right, we'll get some unexpected assistance from the Germans. At the very least, they should at least prove a distraction to the Fatimids.

What we could use is more spearmen. Even militia. Antioch can train hundreds of them in a short time. My own infantry are made up of peasants so any thing would be an improvement. We need units that can hold a river crossing. Our tactics won't be nuanced. We'll just grind them down at the rivers. Even if we lose we'll make a dent.