The Thirty Years War [Concluded]

[Centurion1]

like the spanish could withstand our might, lol

[Greyblades]

Yeah see, your literally out of reach and France is completely helpless, so yeah we can withstand your "might".

[Subotan]

We'll see.

[Centurion1]

Saxony wishes to note that spain is a pompous fool and does a poor job of making friends.

[Beskar]

Wait, what War am I in now?

I don't post for a couple of days and it seems that I am taking on the world.

[Greyblades]

Spain notes that saxony can't seem to make a good insult if his life depended on it.

[Centurion1]

no one don't worry spain is just being annoying

[Centurion1]

Saxony notes that its insults are superb but he guesses the hot suns of your nation have baked your brains and decreased your brainpower quite a bit

[Double A]

The Ottomans believe Saxony's insults are of the same quality as of its women: poor.

[Splitpersonality]

Poland likes how everyone is in the slanty text again.

[Beefy187]

Russia believes that all your base are belong to us, but his too scared to say that in public

[Double A]

And by "us," Russia means the Ottomans

[Beskar]

Double A likes threatening everyone.

[Centurion1]

saxony wonders why you worry about our women heathen when you usually display such small interest in them

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Due to RL (my sons 3rd birthday) I have to post the writeup tomorrow.
I can say that:
1) 2 new "factions" emerged - Huguenots and Crimea.
2) Battle was fought. It was Pyrrhic victory for someone.
3) Someone found a surprise when he attacked fort.
4) Someone have hard time keeping his kingdom together.
5) There is a chance that 2-3 factions will emerge in the next turn. Depends what choices people make.

So, stay tuned... ~;)

[Beskar]

1) So French Calvinists are making an appearance? Nice to see a Crimea faction.
2) Pyrrhic Victory sounds like Switzerland maybe? or possibly France winning at a great cost.
3) The French War again. The King is dead?
4) Saxony? :laugh4:
5) I am guessing South Germany might be one of them. Will have to make sure things are squeaky.

[Greyblades]

2) Battle was fought. It was Pyrrhic victory for someone.
Oh dear.

[Beskar]

2) Battle was fought. It was Pyrrhic victory for someone.
Oh dear.

Did you do a big strike, Greyblades?

[Greyblades]

Did you do a big strike, Greyblades?

Sort of but I have a bad feeling that it went wrong before it could begin.

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

Due to RL (my sons 3rd birthday) I have to post the writeup tomorrow.
I can say that:
1) 2 new "factions" emerged - Huguenots and Crimea.
2) Battle was fought. It was Pyrrhic victory for someone.
3) Someone found a surprise when he attacked fort.
4) Someone have hard time keeping his kingdom together.
5) There is a chance that 2-3 factions will emerge in the next turn. Depends what choices people make.

So, stay tuned... ~;)

Awesome. :yes:

1. Cool. :laugh4: Man, this is shaping up to be the best game EVAH! :laugh4::laugh4: I love it. Huguenots huh? Dang.
2. Hhhmmmmmm..... Huh
3. Hhhhhmmmmm.... Again. Either the war in the west is heating up, or the war in the east is.
4. Gah, Don't like the sound of that.
5. I am putting money on those bloody Irish. But those who rebel against the English crown will find me a cold man. :mellow: Justice will be served swiftly and, some may say, Brutally. That is, if it is the Irish, if not then whatever.



I have a surprise for everyone as well. :wink: Well, a surprise for most people, not everyone.

[Centurion1]

yeah its probably me.....

seriously though how do i give up all my catholic provinces thats like 2/3 of my lands

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

Don't hesitate to ask for Help Cent. Swift military action is needed to defeat rebels before their blasphemous Ideas spread through the rabble. :no: If a rebellions that does not have legitimate aid succeeds it only gives the rest of us a bad name and increases the likelihood our own people try and fight for Freedom.

which, as the divine representative of my people on earth, can not be allowed :wink:. I mean the people would not be able to survive without me!

[Double A]

Double A likes threatening everyone.

Only Saxony :beam:

[Ibn-Khaldun]

-Year 1620-
from July to December
https://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh311/ibnkhaldun/30yw/matchlock7.jpg

July

During the first days of July English and French diplomats managed to negotiate peace between those two kingdoms. With that treaty, England received some provinces in Ile-de-France. This peace proved to be important for the French as the time showed.

Few days later, Huguenot leaders met king Louis XIII and asked more religious freedom so that they could praise the Lord their way without being constantly attacked by the Catholics. Louis thought about this few days and granted Aquitaine to the Huguenots. In return Huguenots raised an army to protect their holdings. This army had to prove it's worth sooner than they thought..

On the last day of the month a battle was fought near Narbonne between invading Spanish and defending Huguenot army. Both armies were almost equal in size and they both had large number of gunpowder regiments. Spanish general de Soto, trusting his professional troops, gave the order to attack. However, Huguenots defended themselves bravely. Their cavalry dominated the entire east wing of the battle and their artillery demoralized battle hardened Spanish troops. This was not enough and when the last infantry unit was routed by the Spanish Huguenot cavalry had to retreat as well. This was Phyrric victory for the Spanish general. Huguenots retreated westward while the Spanish continued their campaign towards the French capital..

In east, ceasefire was signed between Austria and Ottomans being a small victory for Emperor Ferdinand II. Ottomans, finally having time to fight against rebels in Balkan they sent an army there. After they had reconquered one of their lost province and moved against the other one they were surprised to meet Transylvanian army there. Being outnumbered and without instructions what to do, Ottoman army retreated.

In Crimea treaty was signed between Ottomans and Russians. With it Ottomans gained Russian provinces in Crimea and thus ending Russian-Crimean war. Crimean khanate controlled most of it's provinces again.

August

Conrad Werdmueller, leader of the Swiss Confederation, after collecting most of his regiments gave the order to attack French fort called NoSwiss. When Swiss soldiers approached the fort they wondered why the walls, or what was left of them, were so empty. When they entered the fort they only saw couple of artillery crew members and that was it. Werdmueller was furious when he heard that. He could have taken the fort months ago!

September

Spanish army, moved towards Paris without meeting any resistance.

October

Finally being near Paris, de Soto ordered to start the siege. He recruited a large force of mercenaries for the dirty job. About 12000-16000 men were gathered under the Spanish flag.

November

De Soto gave the order to attack the city. Fearing heavy resistance from the defenders he sent his mercenaries first. Just like the Swiss two months ago, mercenaries found the capital of France undefended!

In Germany, Catholic rulers were angered when they finally realized that their demands were ignored...

In the same time, Portugal conquered the last few provinces in North-Africa.

December

Something no one ever expected happened. Ottomans have a foothold in Western Europe! After they had sailed for 2 months Ottomans landed their troops in Corsica. This most certainly will upset other European powers!


The map:
https://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh311/ibnkhaldun/30yw/30YW_kingdoms_turn7.jpg

OOC: Sry for being so late. :shame:

[Centurion1]

excellent write up ibn verey interesting developments

[Ibn-Khaldun]

excellent write up ibn verey interesting developments

Most of the interesting stuff happened during the first turn.:laugh4:

[Greyblades]

Oh man I bought all those mercs for nothing! Trust the french not to put up a fight.

[Double A]

Any extra events happen?

And Corsica was just sitting there, waiting for me to take it. Well, either me or France.

Do not be alarmed. We come in peace http://www.twcenter.net/forums/images/smilies/emoticons/borg.gif

[Splitpersonality]

Who is the lime green power south of poland?

<_<

[Double A]

Crimean Khanate.

Also the army north of France's fort on the Scottish border belongs to the Huguenots.

[Centurion1]

the scottish border????? your geography confuses me heathen?

(are you serious?)

[Beskar]

This made me laugh -

Conrad Werdmueller, leader of the Swiss Confederation, after collecting most of his regiments gave the order to attack French fort called NoSwiss.

Why did the Ottomans get the land in the Crimea?

France, would you like to swap a Hex? (pretty obviously which one I want to swap with you)


the scottish border????? your geography confuses me heathen?

(are you serious?)

He meant Spain.

[Double A]

This made me laugh -


Why did the Ottomans get the land in the Crimea?

Diplomacy can do wondrous things.


France, would you like to swap a Hex? (pretty obviously which one I want to swap with you)

Or you could just take it... :tongue:


He meant Spain.

Yep

[Beskar]

Or you could just take it... :tongue:

True, it is not like France could stop me doing that, but it would be a waste of an effort.

Besides, my diplomatic channels from my allies are so filled with noise that it sounds like I should ally France to invade Britain and then surrender the territory to Saxony. In short, it is full of contradictory pieces of information.

[Greyblades]

Yeah france's capital was undefended I think thats a sign that france is as good as dead, Subotan I think now would be a good time to surrender with dignity.

[Beskar]

I think Peace talks with France and Spain/Swiss should begin. Both sides say what they would like from the talks, and both sides say what the minimum you would go. Say this to me and using that, I could probably work out a fair deal for both parties which both parties would be willing to go.

The only reason I say about minimum is that it allows me to do most of the compromising work without having to constantly consult both parties about every little thing.

[Subotan]

Dès ce moment jusqu’à celui où les ennemis auront été chassés du territoire de la France, tous les Fran#çais sont en réquisition permanente pour le service des armées. Les jeunes gens iront au combat ; les hommes mariés forgeront les armes et transporteront les subsistances ; les femmes feront des tentes et serviront dans les hôpitaux ; les enfants mettront le vieux linge en charpie ; les vieillards se feront porter sur les places publiques pour exciter le courage des guerriers, prêcher la haine des impérialiste et l’unité de l'Empire

From this moment until such time as its enemies shall have been driven from the soil of France, all Frenchmen are in permanent requisition for the services of the armies. The young men shall fight; the married men shall forge arms and transport provisions; the women shall make tents and clothes and shall serve in the hospitals; the children shall turn old lint into linen; the old men shall betake themselves to the public squares in order to arouse the courage of the warriors and preach hatred of Imperialists and the unity of the French Empire.

All the French, both sexes, all ages are called by the nation to defend liberty. A Levée en Masse has been called, and Spain shall reap the whirlwind. Gentlemen, you have just created French Nationalism 170 years before it should have been born. And you shall rue the day that you did.

[Greyblades]

I dont want money and I am willing to give back the capital I took, but in exchange I want three rows of hexes from the southern france border, its navy in the mediteranian to be surrenderd to me, all of France's forts on mine and switzerland's border to be demolished and for savoy to be either made into a seperate state again or be split between me and switzerland (your choice).
It may seem harsh but this war has cost me up to 70000 florins and 10000 men. That is costly, even to me.

Edit: "I can tell you where you can stick your nationalism."

[Subotan]

It may seem harsh but this war has cost me up to 70000 florins and 10000 men. That is costly, even to me.

Good. It'll cost you a lot more before your defeat.


Edit: "I can tell you where you can stick your nationalism."
The same place where I'm going to stick your "peace" treaty up? Tell your scribe to use a non-soluble ink when he next writes a proposition like that; it spoils the rather excellent absorbent qualities of your vellum.

[Greyblades]

Pfft please like I would waste vellium on you, I had it carved on a toilet seat.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Your financial reports will be sent out tomorrow.
So, the deadline for orders this turn is Saturday.

[Double A]

Ok good you're not dead... wheeew :sweatdrop:

[Ibn-Khaldun]

No, I'm not! :laugh4:

I apologize if I haven't answered to Pm's that you players have sent to me.
Btw, my PM box is also almost full(will empty it soon:sweatdrop:).
I've been busy with RL and repairing damage what my mistake caused to the game(I saved one file on top of another thus erasing all information about Spain, Swiss, Sweden and Saxony:wall:)

[Beskar]

I like how all my locations have names now. :beam:

Were they a good choice of names, Ibn?

[Double A]

Are you letterist or something? What do you have against S'es, anyway?

[Ibn-Khaldun]

I like how all my locations have names now. :beam:

Were they a good choice of names, Ibn?

I think so. It makes it easier to find places now. Much easier than finding hex 75 in god knows where! :laugh4:


Are you letterist or something? What do you have against S'es, anyway?

I have nothing against S's. Those P's and T are the ones you should blame! :clown:

[Double A]

Watch out, Split. Ibn's coming after you!

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

Hurrah! :2thumbsup::laugh4:

[Splitpersonality]

Watch out, Split. Ibn's coming after you!

S p l i t p e r s o n a l i t y

:cry:


Since my orders hinge on a PM I'm awaiting from you, would an extension be possible at all?

[Double A]

S p l i t p e r s o n a l i t y

:cry:


Since my orders hinge on a PM I'm awaiting from you, would an extension be possible at all?

Try to find lots of synonyms.

Find many words which do not include "P" or "T"

[Splitpersonality]

Try to find lots of synonyms.

Find many words which do not include "P" or "T"

M u l t i p l e P e r s o n a l i t y D i s o r d e r

S c h i z o p h r e n i a

:P

[miotas]

King John IV Braganza of Portugal declares independence from, and war upon, Spain. We are worried about the balance of power in Europe, and we feel that military action is necessary to return order. Lay down your arms Spain, you have few, if any friends, in Europe, and continued aggression will only end badly for you.

We would also like to make it clear, that whilst we are siding with France in their war with Spain, we have no hostility towards anyone else who may happen to be hostile to France.

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

Well, Then now seems a good a time as any to Declare that as per a prior agreement with France, I Declare war on the Nations of Switzerland and Spain. I promise to respect the prewar Sovereignty of these two nations, and neither shall have any of their traditional homeland taken from them.

[miotas]

We regret failing to point out that we do not wish to seize permanant control over any of Spain's land.

[Greyblades]

Care to tell me why your declaring war?
Especially seeing as its france and not me who is keeping this war going.

[Greyblades]

Whatever. I have the compensation I want allready so I officially offer a cease fire with france, if he's too immature to accept it thats his shame, I'm done.

[Subotan]

Care to tell me why your declaring war?
Especially seeing as its france and not me who is keeping this war going.
HAHAHAHAHAHHHHHAHAHAHAHA

Whatever. I have the compensation I want allready so I officially offer a cease fire with france, if he's too immature to accept it thats his shame, I'm done.
What compensation?

[miotas]

Wait, are you two still at war or not? Kicking Spain out of France will be quite hard if Spain is not actually in France.

[Greyblades]

I have no interest in taking more of france's land if he wants that strip back he's going to have to pay cash for it but otherwise this war may as well be over.

Oh and England Could I get your permission to send transports to get my army out of the netherlands?

[Centurion1]

how about you give back the land Now.

[Subotan]

Wait, are you two still at war or not? Kicking Spain out of France will be quite hard if Spain is not actually in France.
Oh Yes, we're still very much at war. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKOngTfTMs0)

I have no interest in taking more of france's land if he wants that strip back he's going to have to pay cash for it but otherwise this war may as well be over.

Tsk, and so the revelation that Spain didn't intervene to save Switzerland's skin becomes clear to all. As soon as Spain is in danger of being beaten, out comes the squeals for a favourable peace. You wouldn't believe that this was the same country that a mere six months before was calling for the total annihilation of the French State. To be clear; you shall not steal a single inch of French soil by treaty, force or any other nefarious means.

[Centurion1]

who owns crimea by the way? do you control them ibn?

[Greyblades]

I have never called for your total destruction as you know. Multiple times I have offered a peaceful compromise or a reasonable demand for surrender and each time you respond with the grace and civility of a piss soaked chimp. To be frank the only reason I havent taken this action sooner was because I didnt want the only other superpower in mainland western europe, Idiotic dictatorship though it is, to be demolished within the first 5 turns.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

who owns crimea by the way? do you control them ibn?

No, they are vassals of Ottoman Empire.

[Beskar]

I don't get why Poland and Russia didn't split that territory between them.

Poland would benefit from having a port in that area, and Russia would just benefit from the hexes. Ottoman Empire wasn't in a position to get that land with the war with Austria.

[Splitpersonality]

I don't get why Poland and Russia didn't split that territory between them.

Poland would benefit from having a port in that area, and Russia would just benefit from the hexes. Ottoman Empire wasn't in a position to get that land with the war with Austria.


White_eyes:D was verymuch against me taking that land, I didn't even botehr to ask beefy :(

[Beskar]

Have you done anything this game? :P

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

I have no interest in taking more of france's land if he wants that strip back he's going to have to pay cash for it but otherwise this war may as well be over.

Oh and England Could I get your permission to send transports to get my army out of the netherlands?

Yeah, we may be at war, but I am a pretty sociable guy. But I swear, if the troops land on any allied lands or my own then I will sink your fleet and invade Spain faster than you can say "Perfidious Albion"

[Greyblades]

Hey! France is the out of character homocidal/suicidal maniac not me!

[Double A]

The Ottomans would like to announce their ceasefire with the Austrians, and would also like to inform the Transylvania that they still hold Ottoman land.

The Ottomans are confused as to why their good friends the Portuguese would declare open hostilities on the Spanish, their other good friends. Also as to why the English have sided with the French. Are all coalitions meant to fall apart once their goals have been half met?

The Ottomans would like to clarify that the Crimeans asked for aid, and in an agreement with the good Muscovy Russians, have given the Crimeans their homes back to them.

[Greyblades]

Eh, England and portugal dont like how I could end up with a good chunk of france and the income that goes with it so they're helping france to keep me at a manageable strength.

[Double A]

What if England and Netherlands split North France, you and Portugal split SW France, and Pizza and Saxony split SE France? Give or take a few hexes, that's pretty even.

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

What if England and Netherlands split North France, you and Portugal split SW France, and Pizza and Saxony split SE France? Give or take a few hexes, that's pretty even.

Except that takes out, ya know, FRANCE. Part of the entire point of my defection is to keep France as a world power in Europe. If I wanted to just chop France up into spheres of interest I would have stuck with the Swiss and Spanish.


You heathens sure are funny :wink:

[Double A]

Fine then, leave Saxony out of the deal because they aren't doing anything except having children with their ugly women. I originally intended to put them in but then I remembered Centurion.

[Centurion1]

balance of power is key. which is why im leaving saxony at historical strength.


:laugh4:

[Centurion1]

Fine then, leave Saxony out of the deal because they aren't doing anything except having children with their ugly women. I originally intended to put them in but then I remembered Centurion.

better than not having children with ugly men like you.

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

OK, let me put it this way. No one is losing any land in this war, except for those three hexes France Ceded to me for my help. France gets to keep its country, Spain gets to keep his country, Switzerland gets to keep his country. Everything goes back to the status quo.

That is the peace treaty I am pushing for. :yes:

The point is not to divide France into a tiny nation, territorial acquisition is not important. This is a game of politics my dear Heathen, and the Status Quo is god. I don't see this game being much fun if we simply all invade each other and form huge blobs of nations. Having a bunch of smaller nations makes thing far more interesting :yes:

[Double A]

...anyway...

Just give France Saxony's share. It'll work out fine. I'll even give him Corsica (if he can get me some cool units first)

[Greyblades]

OK, let me put it this way. No one is losing any land in this war, except for those three hexes France Ceded to me for my help. France gets to keep its country, Spain gets to keep his country, Switzerland gets to keep his country. Everything goes back to the status quo.

That is the peace treaty I am pushing for. :yes:

The point is not to divide France into a tiny nation, territorial acquisition is not important. This is a game of politics my dear Heathen, and the Status Quo is god. I don't see this game being much fun if we simply all invade each other and form huge blobs of nations. Having a bunch of smaller nations makes thing far more interesting :yes:

Well then whats the point in fighting at all if we're not allowed to actually get anything?

[Double A]

Defending your land?

Since that doesn't really apply, I guess CDF should change his name to "The United States of England" and rename his forces to "Police Force 1" and "Anti Pirating Navy 3"

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

Well then whats the point in fighting at all if we're not allowed to actually get anything?

You still can, I will just be here to foil you at every step :wink: Unless you are allied to me I really have everything to gain by making sure you attempts at territorial acquisition fail. Wars can go on, but when they involve great powers such as yourself then it is natural to assume the other powers of the world would be against you gaining any more land.

[Double A]

I can get why you don't want a big faction to get bigger, but why do you want France to be alive, even if it's in a vegative state?

[Greyblades]

What he said.

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

I can get why you don't want a big faction to get bigger, but why do you want France to be alive, even if it's in a vegative state?

Cause it amuses me? What more reason do I need? :inquisitive: Plus more factions= more diplomacy, which is the coolest aspect of a game like this for me.





however, we have a problem. Suboton got himself banned....... Not sure if it is permanent or temp, but his account is banned.
at least, I think so, I cant see his public profile and his user title is gone......

Edit: I am wrong, He is probably just got a bunch of warning points for the Alt account thread in the watchtower.

[Double A]

Soooo... replacement/sitter?

Ok I'm all for more diplomacy, how about we confine him to Monteriggioni? :tongue:

[Greyblades]

Well he wont be needing all that land then, let's see there are four regions in france's land and three of us who want land, I think its simple I get the southern most region, switzerland the easternmost, england the northen one and Savoy can become a seperate state again.

In all serious I had noticed he had been acting strangely recently he started out a aloof jerk who looked down his nose at me and pizza but for the past few days he's been pretty immature.

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

Soooo... replacement/sitter?

Ok I'm all for more diplomacy, how about we confine him to Monteriggioni? :tongue:

Listen, the bottom line is no one is taking France :brood:. I am going to help him push back the Swiss and Spanish, and then I will work out a peace treaty. He is going to keep france just as he did before this war. That is my final answer.


You guys heard me say it was a temp right? I think he got some IP's for the Alt thread. Nothing has changed :brood: No one is taking over France.

[Greyblades]

No. If you want me to back down you are going to have to make france give up all the hexes he has on the mediteranian coast to me and the rest of savoy to Switzerland. He can have his capital back but there is no way in heck I am backing down without compensation.

[Double A]

CDF, I'm not trying to get you guys to kill France or anything. I'm trying to reach a diplomatic solution.

Spain gets SW France, the part that it touches. England gets the rest of the northern province. France gets SE France, and Pizza gets Savory and a small tribute from the other 3 to make up for the least land. Alternatively, Spain could get Savory, France gets SW France, England keeps N France, and Swiss get SE France.

You all are free to do whatever you want with your land. That means France could end up with N France if CDF doesn't want it. And these are just suggestions, so no need to get testy.

[Beskar]

Subotan got a temp. ban by the looks of it.

I think we should start dividing up his land at a reasonable level. We could weaken him and strengthen his neighbours, but leave him something to continue the game with.

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

CDF, I'm not trying to get you guys to kill France or anything. I'm trying to reach a diplomatic solution.

Spain gets SW France, the part that it touches. England gets the rest of the northern province. France gets SE France, and Pizza gets Savory and a small tribute from the other 3 to make up for the least land. Alternatively, Spain could get Savory, France gets SW France, England keeps N France, and Swiss get SE France.

You all are free to do whatever you want with your land. That means France could end up with N France if CDF doesn't want it. And these are just suggestions, so no need to get testy.


That is not a compromise, it is victory terms. Spain has not won, and neither has Switzerland. Until such a time that they have I see no reason to think France would ever accept such foolishly harsh terms. As such I stand by my own beliefs. France will remain a sovereign nation. That is all I have to say on the matter. If Switzerland wanted Savoy I don't really care about that, but France will stay in French hands. I don't want any more of his land, and do not plan on letting Spain have any either.

[Greyblades]

Oh go boil your head, we've won, I have his capital, his armies are all but gone, his forts are abandoned and the king is indisposed I dont know about you but I consider that a victory. He should be lucky that we are willing to let him have any land left over at all.

[Centurion1]

so france is banned?

[Centurion1]

The saxons want to make a formal announcement that i am sure all of you have already guessed is forthcoming.

The Saxon people are fully commited to the noble battle our Englaski brethern have taken up. We commit to anything short of war to help our brothers acheive their noble goals. We will drive these Southern Papist pigs from the land sof France as we will regretfully do with our brothers in Christ, the Swiss. No matter how many men we must give or how much money we will see these goals accomplished.

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

nvrmind I was really angry there for a minute. Calmed down. I will stick by France, as my agreement with him dictates.

[Greyblades]

Gotta love diplomacy, two guys repeating the same tired things in interesting ways untill one gets tired and says "I quit".

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

Gotta love diplomacy, two guys repeating the same tired things in interesting ways untill one gets tired and says "I quit".

Actually I was angry at france for getting himself banned at such a horrible time, and for leaving his capitol wide open like that. :wall::wall::wall: I mean REALLY?

(for the interested I was going to say screw it and then turn my back on European politics, turn isolationist and all that. :tongue: I got over it.)

If you want I can keep going with you though. honestly I would not care if I did not have an agreement with him. But I like keeping my word as much as possible.

[Greyblades]

You know what, if you can find a replacement France I'll back down completely. Promise.

[Double A]

GB just because you have his capital doesn't mean you've won. However it does mean you're pretty screwed.

Fine how about Spain gets 1/4, Swiss get 1/5, Saxony gets the shaft, and France gets the rest, because obviously CDF would rather have France as big as possible.

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

You know what, if you can find a replacement France I'll back down completely. Promise.

If Subotan does not get unbanned soon and has to be replaced I think I just got a new player who would be willing to take over. :juggle2: But we might as well wait and see how long the ban is, it may just be for the day.

[Double A]

uhh who is the possible replacement?

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

uhh who is the possible replacement?

A personal friend of mine who I have been trying to get to join the .Org for a long time. :juggle2:


But we are getting ahead of ourselves. Subotan may be back soon.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I am appalled by the sudden backstabbing by England and Saxony, for no reason, to aid the cause of a nation that defeated itself long before the Swiss arrived.

The Swiss want nothing more to do with either of your nations, since you cannot be relied upon to keep your word. A warning goes out to all civilized nations, that your friendships with England and Saxony are apparently paper thin, and they will declare war on you at the drop of a hat and without just cause.

I already explained why I cannot simply retreat into Switzerland. I have neither the finances to support a defensive army against a possible reinvigorated France someday, nor the moral reason to accept a white peace from an aggressor who has totally lost the war they started.

Do as you will... I am not sure what diplomacy you'll be having with a reputation lower than dirt.

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

I am appalled by the sudden backstabbing by England and Saxony, for no reason, to aid the cause of a nation that defeated itself long before the Swiss arrived.

The Swiss want nothing more to do with either of your nations, since you cannot be relied upon to keep your word. A warning goes out to all civilized nations, that your friendships with England and Saxony are apparently paper thin, and they will declare war on you at the drop of a hat and without just cause.

I already explained why I cannot simply retreat into Switzerland. I have neither the finances to support a defensive army against a possible reinvigorated France someday, nor the moral reason to accept a white peace from an aggressor who has totally lost the war they started.

Do as you will... I am not sure what diplomacy you'll be having with a reputation lower than dirt.

And I have explained the necessity of stopping this war from reaching the obvious end. If it were up to me I would have had France give up Savoy and a bit of south eastern France to the Swiss in return to an end for the war. Sadly that is not my choice. I have only done what I must. To maintain the balance. But I understand the course I have placed my nation on.


However, I have never betrayed an ally. NEVER. I allied with none of the powers that were in this war, and that is the truth. I can not allow Spain to gain any more land. Just as I could not allow France to gain any more land earlier in this war.

[Askthepizzaguy]

And I have explained the necessity of stopping this war from reaching the obvious end. If it were up to me I would have had France give up Savoy and a bit of south eastern France to the Swiss in return to an end for the war. Sadly that is not my choice. I have only done what I must. To maintain the balance. But I understand the course I have placed my nation on.


However, I have never betrayed an ally. NEVER. I allied with none of the powers that were in this war, and that is the truth. I can not allow Spain to gain any more land. Just as I could not allow France to gain any more land earlier in this war.

Sorry, I just don't see it that way. You're using whatever excuse you can to declare war on Switzerland, who until now had been your friend. And Saxony as well. Was it your plan all along? I made peace with everyone in the west, with the intent of being your friend. Then I was betrayed by France. Now I am betrayed by England, and Saxony as well. You can describe what you've chosen to do as a forced action, but it was never such. It was, and still is a choice. No sale, and you're a terrible friend to declare war without even bothering to negotiate a peaceful conclusion to the war first. You never, ever suggested that if I didn't do as you suggested, you'd declare war.

That is where you've failed to live up to the standards of a civilized nation. Your armed forces are now ordered to kill the Swiss, before you even WARNED us that you might use lethal force. You never even told us our crime. You're horribly wrong in everything that you've done here, and this war you've declared on Switzerland has ABSOLUTELY NO MORAL PREREQUISITE WHATSOEVER. Even the villainous France gave us a warning, a warning they had no business giving. You, on the other hand, have stabbed a friendly nation in the back for no reason, with no warning, and you have no idea how pissed off that makes me.

Even the most morally bankrupt dictators give demands before declaring war. You're worse than barbarians who demand tribute before raping and pillaging. You have no civility, no decency, and no honor.

I hope you feel ashamed, because you should feel that way.

[Greyblades]

I gotta go with the swiss on this one friends must stick together and all.

[Askthepizzaguy]

England, you have every right to make a legitimate demand that we leave French land. On the bargaining table, in private.

This, whatever this is, is beneath the dignity of a harlot.

[Double A]

CDF, didn't you give Pizza money to help him in the war with France? See, there are two things you do with money in diplomacy. One is to get people to like you more, which is what I do. The other is get people to not attack you. What you don't do is give people money so you can attack them.

[Greyblades]

Actually I have one question England; why did you even bother to declare war on Switzerland in the first place? You cant get to it over land as you'd have to persuade the netherlands and saxony to let you get there and you cant go by sea as it would take years to get from england to venice and thats not even considering the amount of times you'd have to start over when I sink your convoys. How the heck were you supposed to carry out your threats?

[Beskar]

I have an idea. One of the concerns is the power of France to Switzerland and Spain, right?

While not significantly reduce the size of France, while significantly boosting the size of Switzerland, for instance? Also at the same time, neighbours take a slice of the pie which would further decrease the size of France to a level which France cannot act on its own. However, France would like a situation where it can still be a stable power.

So I propose this map to be the new area of France, and any other sanctions to be in the form such as money per turn, which could assist in paying of debts to those involved in the war if needed.

https://img687.imageshack.us/img687/7737/proposal.gif

[Greyblades]

Wait, why is the netherlands getting some land? You didnt do anything.

[Double A]

He drew the map :clown:

[Double A]

The Ottomans would like to point out that the French navy is doing nothing but using upkeep. We will gladly pay for the ships in the fleet so France won't have to spend more money on a useless asset.

[Beskar]

He drew the map :clown:

Hah, 3 hexes for sorting out the deal. :clown:

But if you read what I said, you would know why. You wanted France in a weakened position, so it conceding land to its neighbours, even though it is 3 hexes works in your favour. Also, it prevents France from having a Northern Port, which means his only access to the ocean is next to you, where you will have your fleets stationed so they are on friendly terms with you.

[Greyblades]

I guess but seeing as it would be cheaper to attack over land it seems abit redundant.

[Double A]

Actually it's 4 hexes... I can understand the one that cuts off that hex, but those other 3 could just as easily be given to England.

However, I'd rather see them in Netherlander hands than English, given their demeanor as of late...

Actually 2 of those don't even touch water... yeah just give that one to England, France should keep the other two.

And why does ATPG get one of GB's hexes? What the hell?

[Askthepizzaguy]

@Greyblades-

I am assuming Saxony and/or France will allow English forces through.

I am going to talk to my other friends and allies and see what their thoughts are about this unprecedented move by England. I am hoping to see some condemnation of England and Saxony by this Northern Alliance, because I assume there are civilized nations among those who do not condone these acts of aggression. If not, then I am forced to look for aid and friendship in the east, and continue to support Spain, who has acted in the most civil manner out of everyone in the West, even though they continue to be maligned and treated as a villain.

Why? Why are they a villain? Because they have a few more hexes than you? My God, seems like everyone has more hexes than me. Am I to treat all nations as enemies because they pose a potential threat? Why don't we neutralize such threats with friendships and diplomatic pressure, as we had originally planned? I seem to remember western Europe stood united against the idea of Spanish aggression, and at the bargaining table, reduced that threat and even made peace. Now the foolish aggression by France, followed by the backstabbing by England and Saxony, and the unnecessary conflict between Spain and Portugal...

They have plunged the entire west of Europe into anarchy. Why? To protect the villainous France? They've declared war on friendly nations, with no prior warning, nor demand! They've desecrated all of Christendom... I can bear no more.

I grow weary Spain being slandered, they have never done anything wrong and have given their rightful lands to us as friends in the name of peace! Spain is a thousand times the nation yours will ever be. They have class, they have dignity, they have honed the art of diplomacy into a science, and their women are far more attractive! I pledge my undying support for Spain against all aggressors! You have made an enemy of Switzerland if you dare besmirch the good name of the Spanish Empire.

Now look at England... who declared no less than three wars in very recent memory, all of them in betrayal of a nation that had done them no personal harm. Opportunistic, treacherous snakes! I cannot bear to spit on them, for that is an honor they don't deserve.

[Centurion1]

I HAVE FIGURED IT OUT!!!!!!!

the heathen is just bitter that i have read more salvatore books than he has!



And to switzerland. My greatest friend is King James. Through thick and thin we have been together and now at his hour of need I shall not leave him. To do so would abandon my honor in the face of mere threats. I am not at war with anyone right now but needless insults and threats to our sovreignety are not swaying me in a direction against such unfavorable courses of action. For you switzerland we have done much. true you gave us land but we have faithfully repaid our agreement. As well we gave you many men for which to fight your battles and at extensive costs to our own coffers. Do you find me asking you for reparations for the men of Saxony you have sacrificied to defend your homeland. Because for that single reason they were intended. To defend a fellow protestant's homeland. At no point are we saying that we will invade the homeland of the Swiss or spanish. We are only saying that if you decide to take the fight to our Englaski brothers we will bear any burden to ensure their independence.

Please for all European nations consider this. A compromise must be made and the balance of power in Western europe must not be unduly affected. I request all nations try to peacefully resolve this intention.


Spain I am willing to give 15000 gold out of Saxonies own coffers to pay you back for your war costs.

Switzerland I am more than willing to give you the rights to Savoy as well as the rights to Venice and Northern France. And to help pay for your rebuilding costs.

Perhaps the King of France could be deposed?



I too have a friend who would love to join this game so if no one else can get a replacement for Mr. Banned ill get my boy to do it.

[Double A]

Centurion, did you just say you'll give Pizza the rights to lands he already owns?

[Beskar]

Actually it's 4 hexes... I can understand the one that cuts off that hex, but those other 3 could just as easily be given to England.

However, I'd rather see them in Netherlander hands than English, given their demeanor as of late...

Actually 2 of those don't even touch water... yeah just give that one to England, France should keep the other two.

And why does ATPG get one of GB's hexes? What the hell?

Actually, it is 4 -1 as one of my hexes would go into Swiss hands.

However, as the one of the smaller nations, it would be more sense for me to have it, then a larger nation, who would pose a bigger threat on the world stage.

Also, if you want to start that game, how about surrendering the rest of the region to Austria and surrendering the other one to Dark Green? :inquisitive: Surely giving those respective areas that territory makes sense, other than you threatening other nations for them to give up their lands. You don't have much room to comment diplomatically, since you declared an opportunitist war and lost.

Though, Swizterland does make a fair comment on the actions of Great Britain. You did officially sign a Non-Aggression Pact with France, however, with the movements of Spain and the Swiss, you decided to break this deal and claim some land. Once you thought the situation was comfortable for you with France, you befriend France and use them for further possible wars with the Spanish and the Swiss. (who might possibly be low on funds after doing all the dirty work in France)


Saxony, Ibn basically already said that you will have big major trouble next turn, it would be better to consliderate your position.I am reminding you so you don't forget.

[Greyblades]

I appreciate the thought Saxony but my war costs are over 100,000 gold. And besides, I have no intention of collecting gold from someone who doesnt owe it to me.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Saxony, the words you speak allow us to better understand your position.

But England has committed a serious, grave, and vicious crime against the people of Switzerland. I cannot allow that to go unchallenged. I must vehemently condemn everything that they are doing. You may be going to war with us to honor an alliance, but it is an alliance to an honorless man. And it is difficult for us to see your point of view when we are currently in a state of declared war that Switzerland did not ask for. Your proposal however has my interest. It is almost everything that Switzerland has been asking for all this time, is it not? Then why, might I ask, did England deem it necessary to declare war on us? This is not a bargaining tactic. It is not to be done lightly.

Does anyone else here feel that war is something to be declared at the drop of a hat, friendships cast aside, wounds inflicted, never to fully heal, loyalties turned by the stroke of a pen? That these matters are whimsical, and have no real consequence? War is something one does when their nation's very existence is at stake, not when you feel like taking your armies out for a joy ride! Not to score points at the bargaining table... because rest assured, they don't win any points with Switzerland. They cost all the points. ALL of them. We are a proud people who would rather die than sign a peace agreement with those who make war so trivially.

I am confused and disgusted by actions of late, by those I once considered respectable men. Words cannot express my dismay. Truly there is a devil making war upon mankind, and has twisted the hearts of men into swords, that they might annihilate one another in his service. I must take my leave, gentlemen... this is not a council of peace, but apparently a council of plotting and disappointment.

[Double A]

Actually, it is 4 -1 as one of my hexes would go into Swiss hands.

However, as the one of the smaller nations, it would be more sense for me to have it, then a larger nation, who would pose a bigger threat on the wolrd stage.

Also, if you want to start that game, how about surrendering the rest of the region to Austria and surrendering the other one to Dark Green? :inquisitive:

Point taken :shame:


Surely giving those respective areas that territory makes sense, other than you threatening other nations for them to give up their lands. You don't have much room to comment diplomatically, since you declared an opportunitist war and lost.

Ok let me get this strait with you. I never lost the war. All the land I lost was not even Muslim, so therefore not important. I have plenty of money, more than what Greyblades spent in the war with France. I could have taken Austria out, but it would have been a very long time from now. And now I've learned to have a reason to declare war before I do it, because of all the crap France got. Which is interesting, since I did the same thing, declare war on a smaller nation without any good reason, yet no one even cared except Austria, Bohemia, and Saxony.

[Chaotix]

Err.... Beskar is Netherlands, not Saxony. He's neutral. :laugh4:

As am I; I want no part in this diplomatic disaster.

[Double A]

Did I ever say Beskar was Saxony?

[Centurion1]

Oh for gods sake ATPG. DO YOU WANT ME TO DECLARE WAR ON YOU!!!!!!! God read my posts i Have not declared war on anyone.

and beskar, i have no "major trouble" approcahing i dealt with th situation last phase. while i appreciate you as a fellow member of the NA don't tell me about things, the only po dmamge im suffering is from your catholic hexes in S. Germany because you won't control them properly.

[Askthepizzaguy]

The saxons want to make a formal announcement that i am sure all of you have already guessed is forthcoming.

The Saxon people are fully commited to the noble battle our Englaski brethern have taken up. We commit to anything short of war to help our brothers acheive their noble goals. We will drive these Southern Papist pigs from the land sof France as we will regretfully do with our brothers in Christ, the Swiss. No matter how many men we must give or how much money we will see these goals accomplished.

This is a declaration of war, in spite of the line: "We commit to anything short of war"

How will you drive the Swiss from France using your men without war? How can you be fully committed to the battle in a non-committal way? Forgive me but you don't explain your position well. Are you at war or not?

[Double A]

Ok, you're not declaring war, you're just giving England the means to do war, in addition to all the stuff they have now.

Reminds me of someone...

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_ABhyZsIJcqA/Sc0sUef6MqI/AAAAAAAAAgI/0qqH6a_oT4I/s400/us+flag.jpg

[Beefy187]

Don't let general winter tramp on you all :whip:

[Centurion1]

This is a declaration of war, in spite of the line: "We commit to anything short of war"

How will you drive the Swiss from France using your men without war? How can you be fully committed to the battle in a non-committal way? Forgive me but you don't explain your position well. Are you at war or not?

sorry ill clarify.

one- i am not going to actively war on anyone.
two- i will be giving, eh emotional and diplomatic support to england. they do not need my money and men financially or manpower wise.
three- when i say i will take any burden for the english i mean if by some chance you managed to WAR on them in England, like on the island.

i think number three is fair since cdf has pledged to keep his fight to france and not enter your lands.


Heathen, you will pay for your insult to the country in which i uh uh uh uh my children may eventually live in

[Double A]

Your country sucks.

And I'm sure that they'll let CDF off the hook. Yeah, just kick him off of 4 hexes, instant friends again.

[Centurion1]

yopur country sucks more. Hey wanna go to war over it? wait we would win

:clown:

dont think anyone here understands how commited britian is now. ive been allied with him in quite a few games and he has NEVER betrayed me. so this could be a real bloodfest which is why i support a compromise.

maybe some hefty reparations withdrawal of some lands, a little input on the forming of the new french government

[Double A]

He hasn't betrayed you.

Yet.

[Askthepizzaguy]

sorry ill clarify.

one- i am not going to actively war on anyone.
two- i will be giving, eh emotional and diplomatic support to england. they do not need my money and men financially or manpower wise.
three- when i say i will take any burden for the english i mean if by some chance you managed to WAR on them in England, like on the island.

i think number three is fair since cdf has pledged to keep his fight to france and not enter your lands.


Heathen, you will pay for your insult to the country in which i uh uh uh uh my children may eventually live in

I've no intention of invading England. I have neither the means nor the desire. They are the ones who declared war on me. Your support for England specifically declared money and men. Now it doesn't? That's ok, but you can see where our confusion lies.

I didn't declare war on you and I've no intention to, Saxony. But your words left us thinking you did. Not just Switzerland, I'm pretty sure the confusion was not ours alone. I am still not sure exactly where you stand, but if I take your most recent declaration at face value, nothing has really changed. You already provide diplomatic support for England as their ally.

In effect, you were declaring the same alliance you already held. Which is also confusing. Perhaps it was just a re-affirmation then.

[Centurion1]

halfway through your post i was about to just quit and say it was a re affirmation but you already mentioned it at the end so, yep in a nutshell thats what it was. as for the parts about men and money it was badly worded because i have poor grmammar and do not proofread. it was meant to be construed as if British isles were invaded

[Double A]

Maybe I'll invade them.

:tongue:

[Centurion1]

Please give me a reason heathen. Please

[Double A]

Oh come on, I've practically given you every reason in the book. I thought you were German, not French!

[Centurion1]

lol, we do throw more insults than any other two nations in this entire game......

And sah, that insult was uncalled for. Revoke your insult to my honor immeadiately, totally uncalled for.

And germans make insults we don't bother answering them. Watch out or you'll be making more concessions than the 20th century french

[Double A]

It's all in good fun, Cent.

[Askthepizzaguy]

halfway through your post i was about to just quit and say it was a re affirmation but you already mentioned it at the end so, yep in a nutshell thats what it was. as for the parts about men and money it was badly worded because i have poor grmammar and do not proofread. it was meant to be construed as if British isles were invaded

That's more than fair, then; all a misunderstanding.

I re-affirm I've no reason to invade England, no means, and no intent. Their war against us is strictly defensive on the side of the Swiss, though we are still aghast at how they have dishonored themselves.

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

Sorry, I just don't see it that way. You're using whatever excuse you can to declare war on Switzerland, who until now had been your friend. And Saxony as well. Was it your plan all along? I made peace with everyone in the west, with the intent of being your friend. Then I was betrayed by France. Now I am betrayed by England, and Saxony as well. You can describe what you've chosen to do as a forced action, but it was never such. It was, and still is a choice. No sale, and you're a terrible friend to declare war without even bothering to negotiate a peaceful conclusion to the war first. You never, ever suggested that if I didn't do as you suggested, you'd declare war.

That is where you've failed to live up to the standards of a civilized nation. Your armed forces are now ordered to kill the Swiss, before you even WARNED us that you might use lethal force. You never even told us our crime. You're horribly wrong in everything that you've done here, and this war you've declared on Switzerland has ABSOLUTELY NO MORAL PREREQUISITE WHATSOEVER. Even the villainous France gave us a warning, a warning they had no business giving. You, on the other hand, have stabbed a friendly nation in the back for no reason, with no warning, and you have no idea how pissed off that makes me.

Even the most morally bankrupt dictators give demands before declaring war. You're worse than barbarians who demand tribute before raping and pillaging. You have no civility, no decency, and no honor.

I hope you feel ashamed, because you should feel that way.


You do realize I am only attacking your troops stationed in French soil right? I don't plan on doing any conquering what so ever. I am simply trying to bring things back to prewar terms.



England, you have every right to make a legitimate demand that we leave French land. On the bargaining table, in private.

This, whatever this is, is beneath the dignity of a harlot.

:inquisitive: I did, you demanded at least 1/3 of France and 40,000. I asked if you were willing to go below that and you said no. Sorry if that does not seem like a legitimate attempt to me.



Actually I have one question England; why did you even bother to declare war on Switzerland in the first place? You cant get to it over land as you'd have to persuade the netherlands and saxony to let you get there and you cant go by sea as it would take years to get from england to venice and thats not even considering the amount of times you'd have to start over when I sink your convoys. How the heck were you supposed to carry out your threats?

:wall: I am not TRYING to attakc the Swiss. I am trying to fight the Swiss back from French soil. I do not plan on going any farther than that.



I have an idea. One of the concerns is the power of France to Switzerland and Spain, right?

While not significantly reduce the size of France, while significantly boosting the size of Switzerland, for instance? Also at the same time, neighbours take a slice of the pie which would further decrease the size of France to a level which France cannot act on its own. However, France would like a situation where it can still be a stable power.

So I propose this map to be the new area of France, and any other sanctions to be in the form such as money per turn, which could assist in paying of debts to those involved in the war if needed.

https://img687.imageshack.us/img687/7737/proposal.gif

If France agrees to it I am cool with anything. But I can not speak for France :shrug:



@Greyblades-

I am assuming Saxony and/or France will allow English forces through.

I am going to talk to my other friends and allies and see what their thoughts are about this unprecedented move by England. I am hoping to see some condemnation of England and Saxony by this Northern Alliance, because I assume there are civilized nations among those who do not condone these acts of aggression. If not, then I am forced to look for aid and friendship in the east, and continue to support Spain, who has acted in the most civil manner out of everyone in the West, even though they continue to be maligned and treated as a villain.

Why? Why are they a villain? Because they have a few more hexes than you? My God, seems like everyone has more hexes than me. Am I to treat all nations as enemies because they pose a potential threat? Why don't we neutralize such threats with friendships and diplomatic pressure, as we had originally planned? I seem to remember western Europe stood united against the idea of Spanish aggression, and at the bargaining table, reduced that threat and even made peace. Now the foolish aggression by France, followed by the backstabbing by England and Saxony, and the unnecessary conflict between Spain and Portugal...

They have plunged the entire west of Europe into anarchy. Why? To protect the villainous France? They've declared war on friendly nations, with no prior warning, nor demand! They've desecrated all of Christendom... I can bear no more.

I grow weary Spain being slandered, they have never done anything wrong and have given their rightful lands to us as friends in the name of peace! Spain is a thousand times the nation yours will ever be. They have class, they have dignity, they have honed the art of diplomacy into a science, and their women are far more attractive! I pledge my undying support for Spain against all aggressors! You have made an enemy of Switzerland if you dare besmirch the good name of the Spanish Empire.

Now look at England... who declared no less than three wars in very recent memory, all of them in betrayal of a nation that had done them no personal harm. Opportunistic, treacherous snakes! I cannot bear to spit on them, for that is an honor they don't deserve.

Again, only pushing you back to what you had before the war began, IE. taking that ONE FORT back. after that I really don't care what happens. I am not trying to attack you, I am defending France. PLEASE understand that.


Also, yeah, I betrayed France, and I felt bad for that. when he came and pretty much begged for some help to me and Saxony I felt bad for him :shrug: I had heard nothing about post war terms beyond "Spain gets 1/3, Swizterland gets 1/3, and the last third is me and Netherlands. If you were willing to let France actually survive without the huge 40,000 debt you should have told me. :no:



I've no intention of invading England. I have neither the means nor the desire. They are the ones who declared war on me. Your support for England specifically declared money and men. Now it doesn't? That's ok, but you can see where our confusion lies.

I didn't declare war on you and I've no intention to, Saxony. But your words left us thinking you did. Not just Switzerland, I'm pretty sure the confusion was not ours alone. I am still not sure exactly where you stand, but if I take your most recent declaration at face value, nothing has really changed. You already provide diplomatic support for England as their ally.

In effect, you were declaring the same alliance you already held. Which is also confusing. Perhaps it was just a re-affirmation then.


Just as I have no wish to invade Switzerland. I do not plan on killing any Swiss citizens. Just liberating french land from the Swiss soldiers. Do not assume I enter this war simply to destroy you Switzerland.



*sigh* You could read my whole talk of Respecting France's Territorial sovereignty and ect before commenting NO? I stated outright I am only going to push you out of France, beyond that I have no obligation to do anything.



You guys are really tempting me to turn Isolationist and just sit in my Island and grumble all game. I lied, I am starting to hate Diplomacy :laugh4:

[Double A]

CDF, you're acting like cold-war US. You're invading countries to put back the "status quo." And Saxony is like the corporation supplying the US with it's weapons.

This is the Imperial Era. Not only was the UK anti-France at the time, but no one invaded other countries just to give back land to their allies. They'd help them take it, but they wouldn't baby them.

You also talk about keeping your word. Didn't you tell Spain, Switzerland, and the Netherlands you'd help take down France? And tell the French you would not invade them Not only have you broken it once, but four times!

[Askthepizzaguy]

Apologies, "Switzerland" is in no mood to talk, really. OOC- I am not in a happy time.

This was a legitimate surprise and I'm not at all IC happy with the deal as proposed, or the war without warning.

I'll leave it at that and comment later. As it stands, Switzerland is still royally ticked off.

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

CDF, you're acting like cold-war US. You're invading countries to put back the "status quo." And Saxony is like the corporation supplying the US with it's weapons.

This is the Imperial Era. Not only was the UK anti-France at the time, but no one invaded other countries just to give back land to their allies. They'd help them take it, but they wouldn't baby them.

You also talk about keeping your word. Didn't you tell Spain, Switzerland, and the Netherlands you'd help take down France? And tell the French you would not invade them Not only have you broken it once, but four times!

I am too tired to argue any more. I really am. If you think I am cold war USA then I am, but British.

I do not need Saxony to supply me with weapons, I have plenty of my own thank you.


I get it, I am universally reviled. Fine. I really don't care that much. I stick by my real allies, that is all that matters to me. I did what I felt was the best Idea, and I still am. I am not trying to destroy any nation, and do not plan on allowing any nation to be destroyed. That is all I can say on the matter.


The Swiss are angry and that is fine. The Spanish are angry and that is fine as well. I am just going to do what I feel I should, and that is protect France. I am not anyone else to justify that, and Saxony does not have to defend me. as he has his own problems to deal with. This is my task, not anyone else's.

I have nothing else to really say.... I broke 2 agreements. One with France, which I am making up for, and 1 with Switzerland and Spain. I had to choice a side finally, I chose France Why? Because he was about to lose everything. Plus he just wants things to go back to the way things were.

If the Swiss wanted me to feel bad I do, but it changes little. I would feel bad no matter which side I chose. So I guess I just got a situation that sucks either way. :sweatdrop:

[Double A]

I'm going to admit that post was rather weak, and it was written over about 30 minuets since I was watching a movie.

But if I went after Transylvania, what would you do? You said you didn't want any faction dead.

SSNeo: that doesn't mean anything unless you don't reply (but I do get that you haven't been on since the 8th...)

[Beskar]

I spoke to the Swiss in private who is speaking on their behalf of the Alliance, I also spoken to Britain in private as well. All it needs is rubberstamping from France.

https://img690.imageshack.us/img690/4673/proposal2.jpg

[Askthepizzaguy]

If the Swiss wanted me to feel bad I do, but it changes little. I would feel bad no matter which side I chose. So I guess I just got a situation that sucks either way. :sweatdrop:

Not IRL, I hope. :bow:

My disapproval related to the sudden declaration of war, and all concerns IC.

OOC I have no issue with you CDF. You're awesome.

[Double A]

Ditto dude, but this is just about the strangest thing I've ever seen on the org. Or TWC. Or the Escapist...

[Centurion1]

its really not that strange

cdf wants a buffer, france is that buffer

[Centurion1]

by the way did anyone else here who didn't get the rest of their results (the s's) get theirs. i wouldnt care but aren't orders due today

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

Not IRL, I hope. :bow:

My disapproval related to the sudden declaration of war, and all concerns IC.

OOC I have no issue with you CDF. You're awesome.

:sweatdrop: Thats good to know, I really am not trying to piss anyone off.





by the way did anyone else here who didn't get the rest of their results (the s's) get theirs. i wouldnt care but aren't orders due today


I have no gotten my cash info, which is why I am holding back on any orders till I see it.



as for the deal I am fine with it, as long as France gives his signature.

[Centurion1]

If our brothers the englaski approve than we too put our stamp of approval on this plan.

Nice to see that beskar is slowly giving himself more and more land with every plan. Wait, what? i got a hex too. I ardently approve of this plan.


see the whole france approves thing is not going to happen. as subotan IS banned. i dont know for how long. so we need a replacement or we have to deal on his behalf as the only allies he has.

[Greyblades]

I havent gotten my cash update either. Pizza would you be willing to trade venice for some of my hexes in france?

[Splitpersonality]

I likewise am missing information crucial to my actions.

I am withholding my orders until I receive it.

Just letting you all know.

[Beskar]

Nice to see that beskar is slowly giving himself more and more land with every plan. Wait, what? i got a hex too. I ardently approve of this plan.

:inquisitive: I got less? I gained two hexes for the trouble of going through all the motions of having arranging a peace deal which is to allow great benefit to my city. and removed a fort from my border. Since Swizterland and Spain were fully intending to kill France for good, getting them happy with a deal is a marked improvement of the situation.

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

:inquisitive: I got less? I gained two hexes for the trouble of going through all the motions of having arranging a peace deal which is to allow great benefit to my city. and removed a fort from my border. Since Swizterland and Spain were fully intending to kill France for good, getting them happy with a deal is a marked improvement of the situation.

I think that was a joke. :wink: :laugh4:

[Centurion1]

ja, it was a joke. i thought it was pretty clear

[Double A]

I still don't have my cash either. Starting to bug me... I can't do my orders until I get my money.

[Centurion1]

yeah and i need more than just my economic stuff too......

im not sure how but isnt it possible to do like a excel spreadsheet for all this garbage and have formulas so plugging this stuff in takes like no effort at all?

if there is but ibn not quite sure how to do it im sure we can find someone who can set it up for him and save him probably the vast majority of the work.

oh and he deleted all the s's like he said so that probably slowed him down in getting you guys your'e stuff

[Double A]

There aren't any s's in Ottoman Empire...

[Askthepizzaguy]

I spoke to the Swiss in private who is speaking on their behalf of the Alliance, I also spoken to Britain in private as well. All it needs is rubberstamping from France.

https://img690.imageshack.us/img690/4673/proposal2.jpg

If all parties are agreed, I sign off on this plan, assuming the French leader (whoever he is) agrees.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I havent gotten my cash update either. Pizza would you be willing to trade venice for some of my hexes in france?

Because Venice is an entire region, a direct hex-for-hex trade would be less desirable.

Are you willing to trade the entire chunk of France that you've gained for Venice? That chunk doesn't get any bonuses because it's only half a territory. The reason I'd be interested is because it would be a worthy income booster. It also might get everyone off your back regarding "the evil Spanish are expanding too much" and so forth. I'd essentially be a buffer zone which keeps you, the evil boogeyman, away from the other nations in Europe who apparently think you have cooties.

However given our strong friendship I'd be willing to negotiate.

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

If all parties are agreed, I sign off on this plan, assuming the French leader (whoever he is) agrees.

The problem is ATM France does not have a leader. :tongue:

I do not know how long Subotan is banned. And I am not sure who he wants to handle his nation while he is gone. To my knowledge I am his only ally, but whether he would let me handle things I do not know.

Like I said, if Ibn needs him replaced I am forcing a friend to join the org, and he can take over. But I am not sure if he is OK with that. Plus I can not guarantee said friends activity. :juggle2: ( I can hound him daily to keep up to date, but if it will be effective I do not know.)

[Askthepizzaguy]

"I don't want this stunted slime in my sight again! This turn of events is unfortunate. We must accelerate our plans. Begin landing your troops."

But my lord, is that legal?

"I will make it legal. King Subotan, has he signed the treaty?"

We cannot find Subotan. He appears to be banned.

*snarls* "I want that treaty signed!"

It's impossible to locate the King!

"Not for a Sith. This is my apprentice, Darth Maul. He will find your lost King."

[Greyblades]

Because Venice is an entire region, a direct hex-for-hex trade would be less desirable.

Are you willing to trade the entire chunk of France that you've gained for Venice? That chunk doesn't get any bonuses because it's only half a territory. The reason I'd be interested is because it would be a worthy income booster. It also might get everyone off your back regarding "the evil Spanish are expanding too much" and so forth. I'd essentially be a buffer zone which keeps you, the evil boogeyman, away from the other nations in Europe who apparently think you have cooties.

However given our strong friendship I'd be willing to negotiate.

Deal, I'll get more benefits out of securing italy than france and I'm more interestied in the western mediteranian than french possessions.
Now I'm going to need a way to get my armies out of france and the netherlands without peeving people off.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Deal, I'll get more benefits out of securing italy than france and I'm more interestied in the western mediteranian than french possessions.
Now I'm going to need a way to get my armies out of france and the netherlands without peeving people off.

I assume they have given you temporary military access to get your troops home. If France has not, you may move through Swiss lands.

[Greyblades]

Actually I'm more concerned that the english might use my retrieval floatilla as an elaborate excuse to declare war on me without loosing face.

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

Ahh reading I think Subotan is only banned for 3 or so days, so we should be OK, he can come back and handle things. That is, if the round is extended for a little while (it may have to be anyway, as we do not have our economic info.) So he Should be back, unless the ban is longer. :yes:

[Greyblades]

Somehow I doubt that he's going to be very cooperative.

[A Very Super Market]

Subotan should be back in a day. I think he just built up too many infractions.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Somehow I am not sure Subotan would agree to the deal.

England, Saxony, Netherlands, you may be able to persuade him to see our point of view. As it presently stands, it would take England quite a bit of fighting just to pull things out of the fire, and in the meantime the French countryside is pretty much undefended. This plan spares half of their nation and ensures that the Swiss will not be the one to declare war on them (unless they were to declare war on one of our allies).

It could mean the peace in the West that we've all been striving for.

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

It could mean the peace in the West that we've all been striving for.

I would dearly like to see that happen. :sweatdrop:



Subotan should be back in a day. I think he just built up too many infractions.

Thats what I suspected, so we should be cool. :yes: Whether he is willing to accept any compromise is another question.




Also, IBN, do you think My friend could join as another nation? :yes: I REALLY want to get him into the Gameroom, and this would be a good start.

[slashandburn]

I think that the peace plan looks fair but which color is who?

[miotas]

Wow, a LOT has happened here very quickly. You guys realise that France will never accept such a peace?


I think that the peace plan looks fair but which color is who?

France orange, Spain yellow, Netherlands blue, Swiss Purple.

[Beskar]

Wow, a LOT has happened here very quickly. You guys realise that France will never accept such a peace?



France orange, Spain yellow, Netherlands blue, Swiss Purple.

Unfortunately, that peace is the only one I could barter for him, the alternative was that he gets destroyed and out the game. Also, the alternative peace proposed (not by myself) involved France losing far more land and bigger reparations to the Swiss and reparation to the Spanish.

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

Wow, a LOT has happened here very quickly. You guys realise that France will never accept such a peace?



France orange, Spain yellow, Netherlands blue, Swiss Purple.


True, but whats else can we do? I don't want to be a downer, but this is a pretty good deal all things considering. :sweatdrop: I mean, we may have a chance in this war, but at what cost? Spain already has Paris in hand, and that puts him in a strong position .


I am willing to stand by France no matter what choice he makes, but I strongly think he should just go with the deal for now. :sweatdrop:

[Greyblades]

Yeah if you keep with the war france and portugal are going to be ripped apart before you can get your armies near enough to make a difference.

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

Yeah if you keep with the war france and portugal are going to be ripped apart before you can get your armies near enough to make a difference.

You think that don't you :wink: You know where my army is right?

I can help France out this round very easily. Portugal not as much, but I can figure something out.

[Greyblades]

Still, my point is that helping France is going to be very costly if he doesnt agree to the terms.

[miotas]

For better or worse, I've thrown my lot in with France and I plan to stick by them. No matter what happens.

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

Still, my point is that helping France is going to be very costly if he doesnt agree to the terms.

Perhaps, but.....


For better or worse, I've thrown my lot in with France and I plan to stick by them. No matter what happens.

what he said :wink:

[Greyblades]

I realy hope you know what your getting into.

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

I realy hope you know what your getting into.

I do too. :wink: :sweatdrop:

[Centurion1]

lol greyblades your in a ****** situation yourself. britian has a big army directly to your north and portugal can rip into your undefended southern lands. oh and france still has that huguenot army. where would you recruit? hmmmmmmm

[Askthepizzaguy]

We know that any continuation of this war will result in a rather drawn-out and expensive conflict, likely to result in either a stalemate or a French loss, and ultimately, end up resulting in the current peace plan we've all agreed to so far anyway. The Swiss are fighters and are more than willing to keep going, but both justice and the greater good will be served by ending the conflict here and now, as proposed.

Should France refuse the peace deal, then the Swiss will continue on the counter-offensive until the Southeast 1/3 of France, which acted as a staging ground for the offensive against the Swiss, is removed as a threat to Switzerland, where we will levy taxes as reparations. At that time, we will offer a peace agreement to anyone who would accept it, the French, the English, and anyone else who declared war on us, and consider the matter closed. If the French refuse the peace deal offered at that time, then it should be clear to all that the French are not interested in peace, only exacerbating this conflict.

[Greyblades]

lol greyblades your in a ****** situation yourself. britian has a big army directly to your north and portugal can rip into your undefended southern lands. oh and france still has that huguenot army. where would you recruit? hmmmmmmm

You seem to be forgetting the bottemless pit of gold I call a treasury and the mercinaries I can spend it on.

[Centurion1]

you seem to be forgetting the Englishes bottomless pits of gold and the fact that Portugal has done VERY little lately and probably has a lot of gold stockpiled

[Askthepizzaguy]

Ah, but you seem to be forgetting that God has commanded that the French die, and so therefore we will continue to fight even after our gold reserves have exhausted. :clown:

[Centurion1]

im not even going to respond to that....... :clown:

wheres ibn im getting antsy

[Double A]

I would dearly like to see that happen. :sweatdrop:




Thats what I suspected, so we should be cool. :yes: Whether he is willing to accept any compromise is another question.




Also, IBN, do you think My friend could join as another nation? :yes: I REALLY want to get him into the Gameroom, and this would be a good start.

France doesn't have much choice the way things are, either lose a lot of land now or lose a lot of land later. And the second one is more expensive.

And CDF, I'd be fine if your friend joins as the Crimean Khanate. Or maybe he could replace SSNeo who doesn't seem to be doing anything.

[Centurion1]

ssneo is doing stuff he builds at least one thing a turn and consistently steals hexes from you which is hilarious.

the crimean khante is a good idea, so would he be in an automatic alliance with double a

[Greyblades]

Oh god Saxony, your acting as uncharacteristically agressive as Subotan was please tell me your not planning on attacking someone randomly and plunging us into a pointless war again.

[Centurion1]

no im not threatining anyone, not even the heretic which i do on an average of at leasts every 7 posts here.

im just bored because ibn not on to give me my info but i wanna sdtick around and see if he does. so as a result im tactically analyzing your situation and saying what i think. the point is i dont care as ai suspect subotan is going to accept this little idea

[Askthepizzaguy]

Wait, Subotan is, or isn't going to accept?

[Double A]

No I mean SSNeo hasn't been on since the 8th. And you won't think it's so hilarious when my armies march into his capital.

Unless of course, he returns the 3 hexes. Then I'll just invade France or something. http://forums.civfanatics.com/images/smilies/deadhorse.gif

[Centurion1]

Wait, Subotan is, or isn't going to accept?

well honey we aren't exactly sure because yah know he's banned and we don't really have much contact with him. now you just go back to making your character cards, or sleeping whichever is more important to you

as for you heathen.

yah i dont really care but i dont approve. plus we havent done anything since the 8th of december.

[Double A]

Hmm maybe someone could ask Tosa or GH instead of everyone speculating about it.

[scotchedpommes]

The common men and nobles of the Principality are alike, as the Prince himself, in good spirit. Myself, as representative of court? I am well this morn, and have been consistently monitoring affairs for some time.

Any concern is touching, but I will not need to be replaced.

[Double A]

So you've been lurking this entire time?

[scotchedpommes]

Matters to the West are not my concern at present, and far be it from me to detail my every meal for the would-be assassin or admirer whilst such pivotal events are taking place.

[Double A]

I'm in the west. And the south. And the east.

I think that should concern you.

[scotchedpommes]

A band of bumbling buffoons masquerading as an Empire? No, I would think that doesn't concern the Prince or his people in the slightest. Nor, it should be said, did your ill-considered threats and... bravado unsettle us when we initially approached your court, in good faith.

Tell me, as the Prince is eager to know - it reached us some time ago from a reliable source that young Osman soiled himself moments before the blade met his neck. Indeed, not one breath devoted to defiance, not one action taken with a view to self-preservation. Do all of you greet death in this manner?

[Double A]

ooc: My first two turns were super fail. I know already

[Centurion1]

heehee i like the trysalvanians they make the heathen look silly

[Double A]

Yes. Silly.

I hope you'll be laughing when we sack your cities, making it easier to do the job.

[Centurion1]

is that before or after you conquer the austrians?

[Double A]

Nah, we're cool now.

I think I'll burn Transylvania and then send about 10 armies through allied lands.

[Centurion1]

well seeing as how each of those armies is going to take you about two turns each to build i think i have some time to prepare

[Double A]

Believe what you want Infidel, your country will one day see the light of Islam!

[Centurion1]

more like a dim glow........

[Double A]

Your insolence bores me. Go burn in the fires of hell for all I care.

[Beskar]

Netherlands will offer aid to Translyvanian soveriegnity if the Ottoman Empire declares war on them.

[Double A]

If I declare war, it will be to get back my land. How far I go into Transylvania depends on how much they piss me off.

[Subotan]

I'm back. I got banned for three days, for the crime of having an alt, even though it had been warned it the thread that you would only get banned if you caused trouble with them. Whatever, I'm back now, and I'm not pleased with how discussion has turned out. Although I can understand some of the positions some people have taken here due to my sudden and absence for an unknown amount of time, it's dismaying seeing how easily you've been led in by Spanish and Swiss silver tongues.


In all serious I had noticed he had been acting strangely recently he started out a aloof jerk who looked down his nose at me and pizza
I don't in any way. I'm just RPing.


but for the past few days he's been pretty immature.
:laugh4:

Oh go boil your head, we've won, I have his capital,
Temporarily.

his forts are abandoned
Wrong.

his armies are all but gone
Wrong. I have several colossal stacks in certain forts/cities/ports.

He should be lucky that we are willing to let him have any land left over at all.
*Smirks*

Sorry, I just don't see it that way. You're using whatever excuse you can to declare war on Switzerland, who until now had been your friend. And Saxony as well. Was it your plan all along? I made peace with everyone in the west, with the intent of being your friend. Then I was betrayed by France. Now I am betrayed by England, and Saxony as well. You can describe what you've chosen to do as a forced action, but it was never such. It was, and still is a choice. No sale, and you're a terrible friend to declare war without even bothering to negotiate a peaceful conclusion to the war first. You never, ever suggested that if I didn't do as you suggested, you'd declare war.
You have to distance grudges and long friendships in diplomacy. Had this war ended quickly, I would have had no problem with returning to pleasant relations with you, and I still have no problem.



Even the most morally bankrupt dictators give demands before declaring war. You're worse than barbarians who demand tribute before raping and pillaging. You have no civility, no decency, and no honor..
You've been too aggressive. Inadvertently, you have threatened Saxony by wanting to destroy France. Saxony is acting in possible, pre-emptive self defence.



Switzerland I am more than willing to give you the rights to Savoy as well as the rights to ... Northern France.
wat




Perhaps the King of France could be deposed?.
Perhaps not.




I too have a friend who would love to join this game so if no one else can get a replacement for Mr. Banned ill get my boy to do it.
Put him in as Georgia or something. Nice balance between Russia and Ottomans. Or perhaps a Papal States/Italian Kingdom, as a Franco-Spanish buffer?


I spoke to the Swiss in private who is speaking on their behalf of the Alliance, I also spoken to Britain in private as well. All it needs is rubberstamping from France.

https://img690.imageshack.us/img690/4673/proposal2.jpg
I'm not rubber stamping anything, especially not that. That is an outrageous proposal.


its really not that strange

cdf wants a buffer, france is that buffer
France is not a buffer. If you reduce France to that level, you'll find yourself wishing that you hadn't eventually.

All in all, none of the proposals mentioned here are satisfactory. Admittedly, my Capital has fallen, but with English intervention, this should only be temporary. Likewise, I appear weaker than I actually am, because I have numerous armies which have not engaged for a few turns, either due to chance, or design. Certainly, my position is not bad enough so that any of the treaties shown above are proportional. However, I would be willing to concede a treaty which returns my state to it's original borders, including Savoy (Since that was inherited by the Savoyard state, and is now an integral part of France). I would like to remind everyone present that this would result in a strategic failure to France, as I would have failed to prevent Swiss influence from expanding into Italy. I have no money to pay reparations, and regardless of how much Spain is rabbiting on about paying 100,00 gold or whatever, I have paid more.

[Splitpersonality]

I have kept my tongue held for a bit on this issue, but it has come ot the point where I must speak.

I would like to strongly urge the Swiss and Spanish to end their aggressions towards France, I simply do not understand what you have to gain from it, aside from land (you greedy *mumbles* :laugh4:) and I will not stand idly by as a great european power is reduced to half, or less, it's size because some tiny nation thinks it is proper to do such.

I understand the plight regarding monetary problems, but if you do not take steps towards a reasonable peace you will only expend tenfold what you have done so far.

@Beskar:
That deal is preposterous, and I seriously hope you can rework that.

[Askthepizzaguy]

The war shall continue then. It is outrageous that I be forced into a white peace with an aggressor nation who is losing the war.

As for me being "too aggressive", that's bull coming from the nation who started the war. Don't throw rocks at the wasp's nest next time.

[Subotan]

Finally, someone is talking some sense. Poland seems to be the only one without a vested interest, and thus can clearly see how ridiculous Spain and Switzerland's plans are

The war shall continue then. It is outrageous that I be forced into a white peace with an aggressor nation who is losing the war.

Pot, meet kettle.



As for me being "too aggressive", that's bull coming from the nation who started the war. Don't throw rocks at the wasp's nest next time.
A more appropriate analogy would be to say that I attempted to erect a barrier between the wasp nest and my friend's house, and I got stung whilst setting it up.

[Beskar]

That deal is preposterous, and I seriously hope you can rework that.

That is as generous as the Spanish and Swiss agreed to go.

[slashandburn]

Fance is caught between the frying pan and the fire. He cannot or will not accept the deal but as it looks from us here in the far east, he is SOL. :yes:

[Chaotix]

:shrug:

I think Switzerland and Spain should take a white peace deal (or close to it- the surrender of Savoy could work) while they still can. If what France says about their remaining armies is true, then you two are going to be biting off more than you can chew.

Take on France alone? Sure. Take on France with England and Saxony fully supporting it? Good luck not getting half of your lands taken away.

You had the support of the Northern Alliance before you started trying to conquer France for yourselves. Now, you've got support from noone. Who will you turn to when you've nowhere to run? The Ottomans?

[Subotan]

That is as generous as the Spanish and Swiss agreed to go.
...When I was absent, and I had not revealed my true strength to them.

Fance is caught between the frying pan and the fire. He cannot or will not accept the deal but as it looks from us here in the far east, he is SOL. :yes:
It was in my best interest to keep my true strength hidden, so that they would overplay their hand; e.g., I chose an event which allowed me to spawn that Hugenot army in the hope that it would surprise (Which it did) and defeat (Which it didn't) the Spanish. Likewise, I also foiled a Spanish plot to cause an uprising in Paris etc.

:shrug:

I think Switzerland and Spain should take a white peace deal (or close to it- the surrender of Savoy could work)
If they set up a Kingdom of Italy or something which balances out my losses in Italy with Spain' and Switzerland's, that's cool. We could get a new player in as well.


If what France says about their remaining armies is true, then you two are going to be biting off more than you can chew.

It is. If they want, they can find out the hard way, but it will be exactly that; the hard way.

[Splitpersonality]

As for me being "too aggressive", that's bull coming from the nation who started the war. Don't throw rocks at the wasp's nest next time.



Hold up...


You look at that deal that you helped broker, that beskar posted, in which you and two other countries literally carve one of the greatest western european nations into rivets, and leave him crippled and in debt, and you tell me that's not over aggressive?

The point of your war should've been to restate your power as an emerging nation, and to prove your worth against France by repelling his attacks, and keeping your land in Italy, rightfully deserved or not... The point was not for you to overextend and, pardon my french, go balls deep into a nation with no intent to pull out until you've ransacked every hex you could possibly get...

Even wasps know when to stop pursing a fruitless goal, you're not acting like a wasp protecting it's nest, you're acting like a spoiled child.

[Askthepizzaguy]

K fine whatever. When some aggressor nation takes almost all of your territory away and no one complains, don't come crying to Switzerland for help. It's totally hypocritical to sit back and allow France to attack Switzerland and then whine about the counter-offensive. Finally, if you waited until now to speak, it obviously doesn't concern you. Switzerland is doing what it can to ensure its continued security against French aggression. Giving France all the land back that it lost in a war where they got their butts handed to them is NOT on my agenda. And if other nations want to get involved then so be it. I will not be dictated to by a losing power, especially when I didn't start the war.

If Switzerland is eventually defeated by a large alliance of nations bent on our destruction, so be it. I won't be forced into a losing position at the bargaining table so France can run roughshod over Switzerland, thanks. If you absolutely MUST see the Swiss die, then give the French all your money and let them defeat us. Choose your side.

Might I remind you that France alienated every one of the Western powers with threats and bullying, or don't we care anymore, now that they've been humiliated?

Bottom line: I WILL NOT hand the French any territory. Period. They got what they deserved, and if you don't like it, I really don't care anymore. I am NOT a subscriber to the "balance of power, let's keep all nations alive forever no matter what they do" BS philosophy, because it's totally pointless. None of you subscribed to that philosophy when the Swiss were down to 4 hexes. So if you didn't say anything then, shush your mouth.

[Double A]

Oh shut up. We all know France is the victim here. They did attack you.

:clown:

[Centurion1]

Bottom line: I WILL NOT hand the French any territory. Period. They got what they deserved, and if you don't like it, I really don't care anymore. I am NOT a subscriber to the "balance of power, let's keep all nations alive forever no matter what they do" BS philosophy, because it's totally pointless. None of you subscribed to that philosophy when the Swiss were down to 4 hexes. So if you didn't say anything then, shush your mouth.

hey i threw you some bones

well i wont be making any serious decisions until i get my report so........

we do however wish to remind the heretics that our transylvanian cousins will be protected from your crapiness.

[Greyblades]

It was in my best interest to keep my true strength hidden, so that they would overplay their hand; e.g., I chose an event which allowed me to spawn that Hugenot army in the hope that it would surprise (Which it did) and defeat (Which it didn't) the Spanish. Likewise, I also foiled a Spanish plot to cause an uprising in Paris etc.


I thought so, just so you know that was a lie I gave England as a precaution in case he turned on us and send his troops to defend your capital or warn you of my army charging up from the south. Thanks England even before you made your declaration you were trying to undermine us.:2thumbsup:

[Beskar]

I thought it was that you and the Swiss are allied to the Ottoman Empire and allowed the Ottoman Empire to have Corisa so they were able to field an army in Western Europe?

Also, the new Austria has changed policies and now working in-line with the Ottoman Empire leaving former allies out to dry. (Transylvannia)

[Subotan]

K fine whatever. When some aggressor nation takes almost all of your territory away and no one complains, don't come crying to Switzerland for help. It's totally hypocritical to sit back and allow France to attack Switzerland and then whine about the counter-offensive. Finally, if you waited until now to speak, it obviously doesn't concern you. Switzerland is doing what it can to ensure its continued security against French aggression. Giving France all the land back that it lost in a war where they got their butts handed to them is NOT on my agenda. And if other nations want to get involved then so be it. I will not be dictated to by a losing power, especially when I didn't start the war.

You're not being dictated to by a losing power. You are being made a fair and realistic offer by a coalition that will win in the long run.



If Switzerland is eventually defeated by a large alliance of nations bent on our destruction, so be it. I won't be forced into a losing position at the bargaining table so France can run roughshod over Switzerland, thanks. If you absolutely MUST see the Swiss die, then give the French all your money and let them defeat us. Choose your side.

I do not wish to see Switzerland destroyed. I intervened to prevent you from expanding your influence in Italy, and I don't want to agree to a deal which goes further than that.



Might I remind you that France alienated every one of the Western powers with threats and bullying, or don't we care anymore, now that they've been humiliated?
Really? The only situation I can think of like that is my dispute with Saxony over the Palatinate, which was due to a game bug (And was your fault). You have no knowledge whatsoever of my private correspondence with the European powers.



Bottom line: I WILL NOT hand the French any territory. Period. They got what they deserved, and if you don't like it, I really don't care anymore. I am NOT a subscriber to the "balance of power, let's keep all nations alive forever no matter what they do" BS philosophy, because it's totally pointless. None of you subscribed to that philosophy when the Swiss were down to 4 hexes. So if you didn't say anything then, shush your mouth.
It's called respecting territorial integrity, and it's the reason we're negotiating with you at this moment. Should Saxony wish, he could roll over on top of you like a fat father in his sleep. But because we respect your sovereignty, that's not going to happen.


Oh shut up. We all know France is the victim here. They did attack you.

:clown:
Responsibility for a war does not lie with who declared war, or whose soldiers crossed the border first. Switzerland chose to ignore my polite, well considered recommendations, and then my warnings. He knew what the consequences would be.


I thought so, just so you know that was a lie I gave England as a precaution in case he turned on us and send his troops to defend your capital or warn you of my army charging up from the south. Thanks England even before you made your declaration you were trying to undermine us.:2thumbsup:
Heh, clever. I fell for that one. :2thumbsup:
Although it's interesting that you distrust your allies so much. Switzerland, watch out.

I thought it was that you and the Swiss are allied to the Ottoman Empire and allowed the Ottoman Empire to have Corisa so they were able to field an army in Western Europe?
)

Oh? Interesting. I'm sure some of the powers which are closer to the Turk would be interested that he is sending his army on unjustified foreign expeditions, leaving his homeland undefended. It's also interesting that the Spanish and Swiss are so desperate as to seek assistance from the heathen.



Also, the new Austria has changed policies and now working in-line with the Ottoman Empire
Is this true? What does Austria have to gain from that Faustian Pact?

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

Responsibility for a war does not lie with who declared war, or whose soldiers crossed the border first. Switzerland chose to ignore my polite, well considered recommendations, and then my warnings. He knew what the consequences would be.


Other than this I agree with you France, but this is BS to me :shrug: There was no attempt to get the situations under hand before the war started, and it was just a snap of the fingers and you were at war with the Swiss. :sweatdrop: IF you had been willing to enter diplomatic talks before declaring war this never would have happened.


Of course, at this point that is in the past, and the issue has changed a lot. You can not blame any one side for this war. :sweatdrop:



But other than that I agree with what you are saying. :yes:

[Greyblades]

Heh, clever. I fell for that one.
Although it's interesting that you distrust your allies so much. Switzerland, watch out.
Yes I was really going to trust the guy whose entire schtick was keeping every side from becoming too powerful.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Oh? Interesting. I'm sure some of the powers which are closer to the Turk would be interested that he is sending his army on unjustified foreign expeditions, leaving his homeland undefended. It's also interesting that the Spanish and Swiss are so desperate as to seek assistance from the heathen.

ROFL

When you can stand on your own two feet without foreign assistance, then you can talk to me about desperation. Until then...

*farts in your general direction*

[Subotan]

Other than this I agree with you France, but this is BS to me :shrug: There was no attempt to get the situations under hand before the war started, and it was just a snap of the fingers and you were at war with the Swiss. :sweatdrop: IF you had been willing to enter diplomatic talks before declaring war this never would have happened.

I admit, I was maybe a bit hasty in declaring war on Switzerland. However, I did try to engage in talks with Switzerland, only to be brushed away. Had I persevered, then maybe I would have got sonewhere.

Of course, at this point that is in the past, and the issue has changed a lot. You can not blame any one side for this war.
Of course. We're dealing with much bigger problems now.

Yes I was really going to trust the guy whose entire schtick was keeping every side from becoming too powerful.
So you admit you're just in it to become too powerful?

ROFL
Fine. You call the Spainsh off to a white peace, and I'll do the same with the English. Then we'll see who is mightier.

[Greyblades]

Figures, the guy we have to persuade to accept a reasonable compromise is unreasonable.

[Subotan]

You call that (https://img690.imageshack.us/img690/4673/proposal2.jpg) reasonable?

To quote Voltaire, "lol".

[Greyblades]

For the stupidity of this war, that is pretty lenient.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I would be willing to turn aside my allies if you would. I'll take you one on one, France.

[Subotan]

As if Spain would agree to that. He has to much to gain from fighting me.

[Centurion1]

where is ibn???????

[scotchedpommes]

Life [more specifically, one would guess, a 3 year-old] takes over.

Just as an aside, and as something that I'm sure would be considered for any future games of this nature, it'd be worth looking into having several bodies to aid with the workload - if not fewer players.

[Greyblades]

As if Spain would agree to that. He has to much to gain from fighting me.

You know what, I'm sick of this pointless war. If you agree to leave switzerland alone and recind any claims you have in italy I'll stop fighting.

[Centurion1]

^ lol

[Subotan]

I was thinking of a set up like
https://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll286/Phalanxia/30YW_kingdoms_turn7.jpg
With the Green line indicating the establishment of a Kingdom of Italy, to govern over Italy and prevent the cause of this war sparking conflict ever again. Possibly that new player CDF wanted could be the King of the Italians?

[Beskar]

If Ibn needs help, the new player could take over the Netherlands...
(though prefer not to do this)

[Greyblades]

I'm only agreeing to go back to status quo before we started this mess I'm sure not going to surrender lands I didn't take from you.

[Subotan]

Status quo implies that we go back to the situation prior to how the war started, and if we did that, with a big empty gap in the middle of Italy, with you able to just waltz up it, and Switzerland able to descend into the Po Valley, then we haven't solved anything. We need a buffer to prevent that; A Kingdom of Italy.

[Greyblades]

Apart from the fact that there is no way I'm giving up naples in a million years without a heck of a fight I only agree to status quo france, not status quo europe.

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

:sweatdrop: We are never going to be able to work out a peace treaty at this rate.......

[Greyblades]

Look I'll give back the lands I took, switzerland'll promise not to contend france's rule of those two hexes that started this whole mess and we go back to attacking eachother with words instead of soldiers. Ok?

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

Look I'll give back the lands I took, sweden'll promise not to contend france's rule of those two hexes that started this whole mess and we go back to attacking eachother with words instead of soldiers. Ok?

I like this. :yes: I like it a lot.