[Council of Villains] A State of Corruption [Concluded]

[Askthepizzaguy]

Previous suspicion?
All I see is people bickering and giving little information to convince me.
I will stay with this vote until I read some information that I, not someone else, deems as valid.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?132167-Council-of-Villains-A-State-of-Corruption-In-play&p=2053242400&viewfull=1#post2053242400

This was the reason for my previous suspicion.

The conclusion is my own, the information (the timing of his unvote) is valid: He unvoted to duck the overdrive attack.

So there are only a few things I am worried about here. Is Jarema our hidden benefactor investigator? Doubtful, or Beskar would have told me to hold off on accusing him. Is Jarema our hidden protector? Possible, but the odds are still long.

Most anyone else isn't important enough to worry about losing, because they can be replaced by others with similar learned powers. But who is worried about survival enough to dodge a 1:14 chance of death? That would be the mafia.

I don't know Jarema as well as I would like, but that unvote still makes little sense to me.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I would have unvoted. WE'RE SURVIVALISTS.

[thefluffyone93]

Well....phooey then.
Unvote; Vote: Abstain
At least for now, although I expect I will change it quite soon.

EDIT: Btw, whats the tally now?

[Askthepizzaguy]

I would have unvoted. WE'RE SURVIVALISTS.

I know you would, Sasaki. It wouldn't have been unusual coming from you. You wait until the last minute to break ties on yourself as a basic townie in a basic game where your death is otherwise meaningless.

Not everyone shares your mafia philosophy. Jarema doesn't feel like the same sort of player you are. I don't detect the same ruthlessness from him; I feel his behavior is motivated by a fear of loss that is unrelated to losing out on being a survivalist townie player.

The fear of loss is a path to the dark side.

[Cecil XIX]

I would have unvoted. WE'RE SURVIVALISTS.

Even if we weren't it's not like it was close vote. Besides, you'd think just being able to vote would be enough reason to want to remain alive. ATPG, don't you have any better hunches to follow?

[Frozen In Ice]

Time to collect and post a vote count, no time to summarize reasons. Frozen is probably scum.

Glenn was the counterwagon that sprung up to save tincow--I hope this doesn't need explaining. Included this gem from woad&fangs:



Who could also be scum.

Aha, frozens "already stated reasons" are bad like expected:

Two things: I'm pretty sure that the Tincow wagon "sprang up" after Glenn, not the other way around. Second, you may think my reasons are bad, but I think they are quite reasonable myself. Different strokes for different folks I guess. All I am getting from this comment is that we have differing thoughts. If you could tell me why it's bad reasoning then that would be helpful to both me, you, and the town as a hole. I'm not one to refuse good advice that will improve my skill, and added discussion only helps catch mafia. :bow:

[Askthepizzaguy]

Even if we weren't it's not like it was close vote. Besides, you'd think just being able to vote would be enough reason to want to remain alive. ATPG, don't you have any better hunches to follow?

Why are you relying on me? I'm willing to put out the effort to state reasons why I think people should die, and put pressure on people.

Others can also do this. The only reason why I end up leading people in games is because others do not bother. In fact, some of the few times someone else stepped up to the plate, I happily sat my butt on the sidelines and allowed them to lead without my interference. It's a nice change for me.

By all means, come up with your own suspects if you don't think mine are guilty.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I love being dead sometimes.

unvote, VOTE:RENATA

[johnhughthom]

In any case, you're totally completely wrong. I'm not Samus, and I haven't killed anybody.

Vote: Winston Hughes.

That's the sort of thing mafia say when they are trying to be clever. Probably.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Also, I believe Glenn was banned during the time period of last night. He couldn't have sent orders in.

The wagon on Glenn makes no sense to me.

[Diamondeye]

Even if we weren't it's not like it was close vote. Besides, you'd think just being able to vote would be enough reason to want to remain alive. ATPG, don't you have any better hunches to follow?

That's not exactly the point; It's your duty to face that overdrive if you don't have anything special to defend. Whoever it hits, he cannot be less important than a vanilla townie. You can't just back off and let someone else do it, because if everyone did so, you guessed it, we'd never lynch the mafia.

Every vanilla townie voting against TinCow reduced the chance that he might hit something else in there, and I doubt the mafia were voting against him (they have a reason to stay out). What is wrong with this argument (which I also presented yesterday, I believe), since no-one seems to be following it?

[landlubber]

I haven't heard much from vote: Khazaar this game. I would post a more solid case, but I forgot how to look at who posted.

[Diamondeye]

I haven't heard much from vote: Khazaar this game. I would post a more solid case, but I forgot how to look at who posted.

Click on the number (around 760 atm) after "replies:" instead of the thread title in the Gameroom lobby..?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Vote: Winston Hughes.

That's the sort of thing mafia say when they are trying to be clever. Probably.

unvote, vote:John

This is the kind of thing mafia say when they are trying to fake belief. And then hem and haw after typing it out and add "probably" because in their hearts they know it isn't genuine.

[Beskar]

Since Glenn is banned, I will change vote...

unvote; vote: Thefluffyone

Only mafia use abstain votes.

[Yaropolk]

So glenn and atpg are likely innocent? We better get another candidate up there quickly or it may be too late for one of them.

Unvote; vote: frozeninice

[ULC]

So glenn and atpg are likely innocent? We better get another candidate up there quickly or it may be too late for one of them.

Unvote; vote: frozeninice

Sound more scummy please.

[thefluffyone93]

Since Glenn is banned, I will change vote...

unvote; vote: Thefluffyone

Only mafia use abstain votes.

Hey hey hey!
I was just letting the argument continue to see which side makes more sense!
And with Glenn banned, I guess that leaves frozen in ice and jarema

or anyone else, but hey, according to atpg, I should follow previous suspicions.....

[Skooma Addict]

Vote: Insanious

[Reenk Roink]

That's not exactly the point; It's your duty to face that overdrive if you don't have anything special to defend. Whoever it hits, he cannot be less important than a vanilla townie. You can't just back off and let someone else do it, because if everyone did so, you guessed it, we'd never lynch the mafia.

No, it's actually more likely that his duty is like what every townie role so far has been, and that is to survive first and foremost. It is very reasonable for a townie to back off TinCow due to his threat, especially since his swag was really turned up that round.

And of course if EVERYONE backed off, the Mafia would never be lynched, but EVERYONE didn't back off, and it certainly didn't look like everyone was going to back off that lynch round. What Cecil did was very smart and absolutely reasonable as a townie.


Every vanilla townie voting against TinCow reduced the chance that he might hit something else in there, and I doubt the mafia were voting against him (they have a reason to stay out). What is wrong with this argument (which I also presented yesterday, I believe), since no-one seems to be following it?

This is a decent simplifying assumption, though obviously I think that there's a very high chance that people from the other Mafia family went ahead and voted for him.

[Ironside]

Also, I believe Glenn was banned during the time period of last night. He couldn't have sent orders in.

The wagon on Glenn makes no sense to me.

:inquisitive: I know that you're aware of the hive mind situation with strongly allied teams (like mafia), making it perfectly possible for mafia partners to cover for a short absense of a player. You've allowed me to do that in both games I've played with you as the host.

Might've been a too quick conclusion from your side, but still.
Vote:ATPG

[Romanic]

Vote: Beefy

To avoid being night killed. This incredibly scummy tactic will discourage mafias to kill me, thus buying me more time to do stuff during night phase.
Only problem is that this might get me lynched. So if I am under pressure I am either going to vote for Glenn or join vote for someone who has decent case against them.

vote: Beefy

I can't believe this.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

eeeh, romanic needs to die to.

lynch list:
romanic
johnH
renata
pizza
woad

[Choxorn]

Also, I believe Glenn was banned during the time period of last night. He couldn't have sent orders in.

The wagon on Glenn makes no sense to me.

It's possible he could send in orders through QT, or his fellow mafia partners could send orders for him.

[Romanic]

I think this tally is right.

4 ATPG (Csargo, Nictel, pevergreen, Ironside)
4 Glenn (classical_hero, Cecil XIX, Jarema, Frozen in Ice)
3 Beefy (Beefy, Renata, Romanic)
2 Jarema (ByzantineKnight, ATPG)
2 Frozen in Ice (Diamondeye, Yaropolk)
1 landlubber (Glenn)
1 Csargo (Khazaar)
1 pevergreen (God Emperor)
1 Winston Hughes (johnhughthom)
1 Khazaar (landlubber)
1 Thefluffyone93 (Beskar)
1 Insanious (Skooma Addict)

2 abstain (Death is yonder, Thefluffyone93)

[Insanious]

Vote: Glenn

[Winston Hughes]

Why ATPG of all people?

Out of everything I've read today, this is the post that tweaks my scumdar the most.

Sasaki went after Seon yesterday, only to hop on the Nictel bandwagon when it became clear that it was the better bet for an alternative push. The behaviour which caught Sasaki's attention was pretty standard for Seon: he's usually flippant, never trustworthy, and only very rarely helpful to the town. He is, however, an experienced villain, whose typical behaviour allows him to avoid giving much - if anything - away. And while, as a townie, he's often utterly cavalier about his safety, when he's playing scum he is quite capable of adjusting that behaviour to improve his survival odds.

In this context, Seon's sole post today strikes me as an attempt to duck under the radar, and avoid a repeat of the previous accusation. He's changed up his behaviour, switching from irreverent to stealthy, and that is enough for me to...

vote: Seon.


That's the sort of thing mafia say when they are trying to be clever. Probably.

I volunteered information that has the potential to be falsified or verified at a later date. If it was a lie, then it'd be a stupid and unnecessary one. And, if and when it is shown to be true, even then it won't prove me to be town.

[Greyblades]

unvote; vote: Thefluffyone

Only mafia use abstain votes.
:inquisitive:
Dude its only the second turn anyone has cause to abstain.
Ooh I just realised I have an excuse to do this!


http://www.shallisayitagain.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/lex-luthor-wrong.jpg

[Cecil XIX]

Why are you relying on me? I'm willing to put out the effort to state reasons why I think people should die, and put pressure on people.

Others can also do this. The only reason why I end up leading people in games is because others do not bother. In fact, some of the few times someone else stepped up to the plate, I happily sat my butt on the sidelines and allowed them to lead without my interference. It's a nice change for me.

By all means, come up with your own suspects if you don't think mine are guilty.

I'm not asking you to name names for me, I'm asking for a yes or no: Can't you think of better suspects to go after then Jarema and Nictel?

[classical_hero]

Also, I believe Glenn was banned during the time period of last night. He couldn't have sent orders in.

The wagon on Glenn makes no sense to me.
How do you know that Chaotix could have gotten the kill order from a QT? (I see that Choxorn spotted this out also) Under such circumstances it might be possible. But assuming you are right I will unvote

Right then it does seem the trail has gone cold. Hopefully I should be able to make a vote tonight after my colonoscopy, but just in case, my vote right now is vote:abstain just in case I don't fell well enough to get a proper vote in, but hopefully that does not happen.

[Yaropolk]

Folks, as it has been pointed out, Beskar claims ATPG has been cleared by investigator, Beskar is Jill Valentine, so probably not a mafioso , and Glenn was banned last night. I encourage those voting for those 2 above to switch your vote to one of the other lose contenders (Jareema, Beefy or FrozenInIce)

[Sasaki Kojiro]

The top candidate has like 5 votes. We can lynch anyone.

[pevergreen]

Beskar is Jill Valentine, so probably not a mafioso

FoS: Yaraopolk

Pointless, and defending comment.

All we know about cover roles is that TC's looked exactly like his real role. Could be a one off, could not. Anything else is unknown.

[woad&fangs]

vote: Beefy on account of ATPG being innocent and all. If Beefy's wifom is an act of genius rather than scum behavior, he should easily be able to argue his way out of being lynched ;-)

[dcmort93]

I'll abstain for now, too much Mass Effect recently to pay too much attention, albeit I was surprised to see Shepard in game and as a girl no less

[dcmort93]

To validate Vote Abstain

[Beskar]

:inquisitive:
Dude its only the second turn anyone has cause to abstain.
Ooh I just realised I have an excuse to do this!


http://www.shallisayitagain.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/lex-luthor-wrong.jpg

. . .
. . .
. . .
No, Greyblades.
No.

[Chaotix]

Round has ended. I will tally the votes.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

3 way tie at 4 votes?

Woad seriously did you know what the votecount was?

And seriously a BEEFY wagon for that post? Have ANY of you EVER played with beefy before?

I hope we get lucky.

[Chaotix]

Tally

ATPG: 4 (Csargo, pevergreen, Nictel, Ironside)
Glenn: 4 (Cecil, Jarema, Frozen, Insanious)
Beefy: 4 (Beefy, Renata, Romanic, woad&fangs)

Jarema: 2 (ByzantineKnight, ATPG)
Frozen: 2 (Diamondeye, Yaropolk)

landlubber: 1 (Glenn)
Csargo: 1 (Khazaar)
pevergreen: 1 (God Emperor)
Winston: 1 (johnhughthom)
Khazaar: 1 (landlubber)
Thefluffyone: 1 (Beskar)
Insanious: 1 (Skooma)
Seon: 1 (Winston)

Abstaining: DiY, Thefluffyone, classical_hero, dcmort

-----------------------------------------------------

Nice and decisive today, guys. :brood:

I'm extending this round 24 hours. A triple tie is too much.

[dcmort93]

Fine then Unvote; Vote Glenn and FOS Pizza
Pizza could have tried to stoop the wagon on glenn bc they are both mafia but IDK

[Sasaki Kojiro]

So we can still lynch anyone correct?

unvote, vote:Seon

fos:anyone lazily voting the top three

[pevergreen]

I'm extending this round 24 hours. A triple tie is too much.

http://i2.ytimg.com/vi/jRewu9X9JhM/0.jpg

[Romanic]

Nice and decisive today, guys. :brood:


:laugh4:

At least we know that 3 way ties won't end in 3 deaths.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

:laugh4:

At least we know that 3 way ties won't end in 3 deaths.

AT LEAST WE KNOW YOU DON'T CARE WHO DIES TODAY AS LONG AS IT ISN'T A PARTNER, SCUM

[Csargo]

I was tempted to switch my vote before but wanted to see what would happen with a triple tie :grin: Unvote:ATPG, Vote:Seon

I think WH analysis on Seon is a very good, I think he should be lynched over the other candidates.

[Beskar]

unvote; vote: Seon

Seems to be the trend.

[pevergreen]

So we can still lynch anyone correct?

unvote, vote:Seon

fos:anyone lazily voting the top three
:laugh4:

[Reenk Roink]

I don't think any of the top three should be killed. Glenn is banned (what did he do???), so just let him get WoG'd I guess, I'm more open to Beskar's innocence and by implication Atpg's for now, just don't listen to the 'Nictel flinched' nonsense.

But if Beefy dies I will lose all reason for attempting to follow this game further and I kinda like this game and the drama and discussion in it even though I'm not a fan of the setting. :sad: Pretty sure I'll just look at the summary thread from time to time to read Chaotix's nice story. Also, I will not suppress my desire to see TinCow's group win it because I like what TinCow has done so far in the game. In fact, even now the second best thing that could happen except a pure town victory would be Dark Samus winning for me (I was IDFH).

By the way, I wish God Emperor dies. Retaliation vote, plus you never did give me that 20 gold... :deal:

[Greyblades]

. . .
. . .
. . .
No, Greyblades.
No.Great comeback.

[woad&fangs]

3 way tie at 4 votes?

Woad seriously did you know what the votecount was?

Not a clue, actually. I thought ATPG was still going to be in the lead.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I find your apathy convincing.

[Double A]

Oh jeez, am I really expected to read 125 posts before I don't get fos'd by Sasaki?

Stupid school, blocking the org so I can't check it at lunch...

vote: Glenn for now, I still think he's guilty from yesterday. (I did read this page by the way)

[Beskar]

unvote; vote: Beefy

For not trying.


Great comeback.

http://www.nastyhobbit.org/data/media/13/picard-facepalm.jpg

[Askthepizzaguy]

unvote, vote: Beefy

lesser of the evils, seems to want to die.

[Romanic]

If you read / remembered about the past two Council of Villan's games, the Mafia all had this ability, or at least they did in the first one. Where every time a mafia was lynched, the mafia would kill one of the people that voted for them. Since this is the next installment of that series...

@Insanious : How did you know that mafia had this ability in the previous CoV games?

Renata previously asked you where you played mafia before. I don't recall seeing an answer, so I'm curious to hear about this too.

[Csargo]

I can't believe this at all...

[Sasaki Kojiro]

unvote, vote: Beefy

lesser of the evils, seems to want to die.

ARE YOU BLEEPING KIDDING ME

you had better be scum

LESSER OF WHAT EVILS?

[Seon]

Vote: Beefy. Sorry friend, but you want to die, and I don't :bow:.

[Askthepizzaguy]

ARE YOU BLEEPING KIDDING ME

you had better be scum

LESSER OF WHAT EVILS?

Sure Sasaki, why don't I just blurt out everything that I am doing and tell the mafia everything they need to know to win this game.

I don't answer to you, my friend. If you were trying a little harder and not just randomly voting people with grave urgency, I'd be more interested in sharing what the deal is.

This isn't a unilateral decision. Thanks to the AWESOME wagon on me today which was brilliant, we have a whole lot of wonderful choices for the lynch. I'm picking someone who doesn't seem to care if he gets lynched.

If that's not good enough, next time, let's try a little harder to lynch actual suspects. Kay.

[Double A]

unvote, vote: Thefluffyone

It seems to me like he used his general insanity as the joker from last game to try to get people not to pay attention to him any more. I also have a gut feeling, but that could just be my stomach growling.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

No, you need to die stat. That is a seriously beefy move and no reason to think he's scum.

YOU CAN LYNCH ANYONE. ANYONE FROM THE ENTIRE LIST. WE HAVE 24 HOURS.

But it's all a brilliant plot by your part? I have randomly voted no one. You know better.

[Romanic]

vote: Tincow

Wouldn't have to do this if certain people would unvote. Just need a few.

@ATPG : Can you explain your logic here? The tally was 11-8 in favor of TinCow, so I'm not seeing why you needed to vote for him. However it seems to me that you would need to do this "if certain people would unvote". So yeah, I'm not understanding why you chose to vote TinCow at that point.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

unvote, vote: Beefy

lesser of the evils, seems to want to die.


Vote: Beefy. Sorry friend, but you want to die, and I don't :bow:.

TRY AGAIN


Vote: Beefy

To avoid being night killed. This incredibly scummy tactic will discourage mafias to kill me, thus buying me more time to do stuff during night phase.
Only problem is that this might get me lynched. So if I am under pressure I am either going to vote for Glenn or join vote for someone who has decent case against them.

[woad&fangs]

unvote: Beefy; Vote: Seon
That last post was the only thing that triggered my scumdar this entire phase.

[Romanic]

Motep mentioned that (all?) mafia had the ability to kill one of their voter in the previous instances of "Council of Vilains".

1) Is this true?
2) Did every mafia player have this ability, or only a few (or only one)?
3) Could scum partners be killed if they were voting for the lynchee?

I'm too lazy to look for this myself. Particularly interested in answer #3.

[Askthepizzaguy]

No, you need to die stat. That is a seriously beefy move and no reason to think he's scum.

There's no reason to think I am either.

When I try to come up with alternative suspects, that's wrong because we can't vote for Beefy because he's acting like himself, which he does as town or mafia, and I can't vote for Nictel because that's flat out stupid that I would be silly enough to vote for someone based upon their behavior, whether you and Reenk agree with my analysis or not, I was foolish for trying. I point out why we shouldn't vote for Glenn, and people boo and hiss and OMG we can't use any logic, ironclad or merely convincing, to try to lynch intelligently and avoid what seems to me like an obviously bad lynch. I offered Jarema as a suspect, no one cared. I can keep coming up with more if you'd like.

Would you prefer I just copy your vote and act as your proxy? Would it be okay with you if I tried to come up with my own suspects, or is that too much to ask?

I agree Beefy's a bad lynch, but I don't KNOW that for certain. I also think other people are worse lynches, but I don't know that for certain. But since every idea I have is being pooped on, why doesn't someone just tell me what the solution is, and the correct answer, and we'll just do that?

I think Seon's a worse lynch than Beefy. I think Glenn is a way worse lynch than Beefy. I think I'm the worst lynch of the bunch.

Sure, I could pick someone else. I could pick a totally random person. But somehow, I have a feeling, whoever I pick, just ain't gonna be good enough for Sasaki.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

If you don't want me to call you mafia, don't vote for people you think are bad lynches and act like you think there are good reasons to vote them and don't give up on a day with 24 hours left.

I haven't been saying "pizza you are town and playing badly" I've been finding things you've done mafia like. Although I doubt that more right now.

[pevergreen]

Glenn is a great lynch.

Seon is a better lynch than Beefy.

Unvote, Vote: Seon

[Askthepizzaguy]

If you don't want me to call you mafia, don't vote for people you think are bad lynches and act like you think there are good reasons to vote them and don't give up on a day with 24 hours left.

I can vote for Beefy if I want to, by the way. There is nothing besides his WIFOM behavior to work from when determining his guilt or innocence. You're acting like it's a law that Beefy must be innocent here, but it's not true. He's done similar things as mafia before. The only reason he even made the tie was because of a late woad vote. He's a legitimate suspect.

If you want me to give your opinion more weight, it would be nice if you could go for just a little bit before freaking out and calling for my head for having the gall to disagree with you, after you've already accepted the fact that I'm a bad lynch. It's really hard to work with someone who seems to go out of his way to make no sense.

You want more intelligent lynches than these? Good, that's common ground. How about we work from there?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I'll work from anywhere other than "lesser of two evils, seems to want to die". A beefy scumflip would be luck, and he's worth leaving around.

How about seon parroting your "wants to die" line and revealing that he had no idea what beefy actually said?

[Romanic]

I've considered that idea. The thing is that Jill Valentine is IDFH... And Samus pulling that on day one is stupidly risky. I think it refers to the defender, but I'm not sure.
[...]


@Ironside: (on the bold part) How do you know Jill Valentine is IDFH?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

hah, a search for "jill valentine idfh" turns up ironsides post as the first result.

[Csargo]

Join me ATPG. JJJJJOOOOOOIIIIIIINNNNNN MMMMMMMMEEEEEEEEEEE :tongue:

[Askthepizzaguy]

I'll work from anywhere other than "lesser of two evils, seems to want to die". A beefy scumflip would be luck, and he's worth leaving around.

How about seon parroting your "wants to die" line and revealing that he had no idea what beefy actually said?

I can explain that. When a sudden wagon formed on Seon, I consulted him in private and asked who he was and just how bad of a lynch he would be, and what he knew.

(I really don't understand why more people don't try to question their suspects when they're already about to be lynched.)

What Seon told me was not convincing or unconvincing, but it gave me a place to start from, and I determined and confirmed with others that Seon would be a lousy lynch for a few specific reasons I won't go into here. The point is, I would have been able to confirm or deny his story within a day or two.

Since I had been talking to Seon, and we agreed to wagon someone else together, that's why Beskar, Seon, and I all moved as one with similar reasoning.

Seon's a bad lynch, for now, if simply because there's information to be gained. That's my call. If you don't agree, and others don't agree, it's not the end of the world if he dies. If he dies and was telling the truth, I gave it my honest try to do something helpful and it got shot down, and we move on, hopefully.


You think Romanic is worth lynching? You mentioned something about him, and I have no reason to disagree.



Join me ATPG. JJJJJOOOOOOIIIIIIINNNNNN MMMMMMMMEEEEEEEEEEE :tongue:

I'm trying, buddy. I want there to be common ground, but man, tonight is not my night.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I could go for JohnH, he doesn't seem to believe his reasoning on his votes.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I could go for JohnH, he doesn't seem to believe his reasoning on his votes.

Very well. Although I would ask that until we pick a decent candidate, we not make any large wagons. It's possible I ask John who the heck he is and I find out he's a much worse lynch than Seon. :shrug: I dunno; I'd hate to have our attempts at a good lynch blow up in our faces with a horrendous one instead.

You're very much correct in that we have 24 hours to work with, and we should use them wisely. More wisely than the last day phase, anyway.

unvote, vote: Johnhughthom

Because I don't have any reason not to, presently. Could you link back to your reasons on him, Sasaki?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

It's gut not reason really:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?132167-Council-of-Villains-A-State-of-Corruption-In-play&p=2053242718&viewfull=1#post2053242718

And I'd notice one earlier post that I'd forgotten.

I am very dubious about you getting town-confirming or useful information just by asking people who they are. My analysis of the setup + TinCow's in thread comments makes me very sure the mafia have fakeclaims (same as other council games) and a deep scan is required to see who they really are.

[Romanic]

You think Romanic is worth lynching? You mentioned something about him, and I have no reason to disagree.


Hello! Trying to spread bad ideas on me, are we? :laugh4:

Can you answer this post (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?132167-Council-of-Villains-A-State-of-Corruption-In-play&p=2053242857&viewfull=1#post2053242857) please? I know Sasaki is interesting, but I ahead in line. :smug2:

[Askthepizzaguy]

It's gut not reason really:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?132167-Council-of-Villains-A-State-of-Corruption-In-play&p=2053242718&viewfull=1#post2053242718

And I'd notice one earlier post that I'd forgotten.

I am very dubious about you getting town-confirming or useful information just by asking people who they are. My analysis of the setup + TinCow's in thread comments makes me very sure the mafia have fakeclaims (same as other council games) and a deep scan is required to see who they really are.

No, what I didn't get was useful information, what I got was potentially useful and confirmable information. Beskar has the deep scanner we need. And, I'm not trusting that one 100% either, we do know of a second scanner and there are other ways to confirm to a 99% degree about certain things. If Seon gets killed in the meantime, that also means I don't have to lynch him. It's worth it either way.

I'm well aware just how useless a claim is, in and of itself. If this were just based on Seon's claim, I would have let you take all the blame for his death and done nothing to stop you. :clown: The fake claims aren't a factor here; someone could claim to be Captain Falcon and have a trove of information that seems to confirm such; I know all about the idea that he could still be guilty because creative hosts like Chaotix would give a big bad scum the kind of tools they need to look very townie. I wouldn't base my reaction off of just his claim itself. In fact I'd probably be suspicious of any powerful role I couldn't confirm 100% wasn't mafia.

[Askthepizzaguy]

@ATPG : Can you explain your logic here? The tally was 11-8 in favor of TinCow, so I'm not seeing why you needed to vote for him. However it seems to me that you would need to do this "if certain people would unvote". So yeah, I'm not understanding why you chose to vote TinCow at that point.

At the time, people were unvoting Tincow, and one even voted for one of the alternative candidates to try for a double-lynch. Meanwhile, you have to figure there are possibly some useful townie power roles in the wagon, and if they all get chased away, it could allow Tincow to escape the round. Some people needed to volunteer to fill the gap. One vote switch could have made it 10-9 instead of 11-8, and that's an unacceptable margin for error, especially when the trend was to unvote Tincow.

I also mentioned if people unvoted the other candidates, which would have been a good idea. That way, even if most people flee the Tincow wagon, he still gets lynched and the overdrive goes onto one of the people who volunteered to die.

I didn't feel it was necessary to make it that explicit; anyone who saw what was going on and thought about it for a few seconds would have concluded the same as I did, unless they're the type to basically never agree with me.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I just want to throw out some mafia theory I'm toying with.

At this stage in the game, the day period is not about lynching mafia. It's about not lynching town. So you find someone who seems somewhat scummy and wagon, and see how you feel about it, and find someone else and compare, and judge other top candidates. And if you feel ok about all of them you lynch someone else.

Imagine it was a 7 player game with 1 scum, and lynches were random.

1/7 chance day one.
1/5 chance day two.
1/3 chance day three.

68% chance. Good odds.

Now imagine you can get a town read on one person a day...

1/6 chance day one.
1/4 chance day two.
1/2 chance day three.

92%. Excellent. And that assumes the mafia kill the person who we got a town read on each night.

Well, I don't know how well the 7 person example works. But you get the idea.

JohnH has a good chance of just being lazy town. But it's best to move away from people we are feeling ok about and have something on, even to lynch purely randomly.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I think I get what you're saying, Sasaki. However, it's going to be a little different in this game because of conversion. The mafia are not forced to murder people we get townie reads on.

Ordinarily it's a workable theory; this game might not be the best one to test it out on. I'd save it for the next game.

[Reenk Roink]

When I try to come up with alternative suspects, that's wrong because we can't vote for Beefy because he's acting like himself, which he does as town or mafia, and I can't vote for Nictel because that's flat out stupid that I would be silly enough to vote for someone based upon their behavior, whether you and Reenk agree with my analysis or not, I was foolish for trying. I point out why we shouldn't vote for Glenn, and people boo and hiss and OMG we can't use any logic, ironclad or merely convincing, to try to lynch intelligently and avoid what seems to me like an obviously bad lynch. I offered Jarema as a suspect, no one cared. I can keep coming up with more if you'd like.

Why all the melodrama and strawmen? :rolleyes: Nobody is saying that you shouldn't vote for someone based on behavior or use logic (whatever that means since it's pretty clear you ain't using 'logic' properly in that statement), that's pretty much the main reason people are voted on. People like me are instead pointing out that analyzing things on PAST behavior is very easily countered by Mafia, and wanting to know why you interpret Nictel's post as "flinching" and describe it with many adjectives. You basically said very little using many words on why Nictel was guilty, and pushed it very hard for a early round lynch.


Would you prefer I just copy your vote and act as your proxy? Would it be okay with you if I tried to come up with my own suspects, or is that too much to ask?

Don't do that! Was he not going all save Beefy recently, I would have found his house and cut his power so I didn't have to read those hyperventilating posts.


How about seon parroting your "wants to die" line and revealing that he had no idea what beefy actually said?

Means he's not paying close attention maybe? You are actually hurting the case on Seon which was better before you jumped on it.

[Link]

Re-reading yesterday, this post also struck me as off:



At the time was one of 14 voters for Tincow, with Nictel in a close second place thanks to landlubber's attempt at a tie vote. Was a one in 14 chance of dying really that much of a threat for you, Jarema? May I ask what you've been doing with your time at night, since you're not one of the claimed investigators that are crawling all over the place. You obviously have some kind of night action, or you wouldn't have been trying to get the random kill off of your back, and would have instead welcomed such an outcome.
I don't know about you, but the town is made up of survivalists. Implying that were he to die, even if the town wins, he would lose. Don't accuse someone of seeking to win.


Vote: ATPG

Because he said something in private which only TinCow has said a few hours later. I messaged you back Pizza, asking for clarification, but it just looks scummy as if you two are sharing a quicktopic or similar.
Very vague. I might be further inclined to believe you were you to offer up a bit of proof.


vote: glenn
Offer an explanation of some sort, unless you just wanted to bandwagon someone.In which case, tell me why we shouldn't lynch you.


The second part of the Zelda game, where I personally took down about half of the cult team and also wiped out the mafia team single-handedly? It was your own fault for allowing two claimed Lovers to exist until the end, seriously. I was acting pro-town then, far more pro-town than anyone else, and kicking serious butt.

Whichever. I knew that attempting to vote for people who deserved it would get me votes. I also knew actively attempting to destroy mafioso in this mafia-tilted game would be a bad idea. Better would have been to employ Beefy's strategy which is to sit down and shut up and hope you don't get murdered and that you get recruited.

Go ahead folks, lynch me. You deserve it.
This isn't a testament to your innocence or your guilt. Acting as if you don't care whether you die doesn't mean anything.


Vote: Insanious
Care to elaborate?


@ATPG : Can you explain your logic here? The tally was 11-8 in favor of TinCow, so I'm not seeing why you needed to vote for him. However it seems to me that you would need to do this "if certain people would unvote". So yeah, I'm not understanding why you chose to vote TinCow at that point.
Maybe one of his scum buddies was on that wagon, and he wanted to lessen their chance of dying, because they are more important than him.

Unvote Vote: Jarrema

[Beskar]

@Ironside: (on the bold part) How do you know Jill Valentine is IDFH?

I will need to scroll back to read his post in full, but from what you quoted, I will respond.

Out of GF and IDFH, and every GF member has 'GF' in their name, and every IDFH has been a 'hero' character. This would place me on the IDFH side of things.

From the information I can seem to gather though, Phazon are using IDFH members as cover roles and Samus is using GF roles as cover roles. The 'Hero' faction seems to possess both 'GF and IDFH' typical members.

So according this, if I was on a mafia team, it would be on TinCow's team, not Samus or on Team Samus.

This goes back to YLC's far-out-there theory, where I am TinCow's team mate. This is also arguably not true because TinCow is using his resources to kill me off. This is from him accusing me of being Samus, his team has night killed me, they have night killed people I know in Real Life in attempt to get at me, and his various other methods. In short, if I was Tincow's team mate, him and his team wouldn't be putting in a serious effort to kill me.

[Romanic]

JHT was one of the early voters on TinCow, and kept his vote there until the end, so if you're looking for a reason not to vote him, that's it. Also, the psot Sasaki linked means nada, JHT and Winston have a history of voting for each other. They normally do it on Day 1, and I realize this is Day 3, but I'm not sure if the reason John gave, to vote Winston today, was serious. I guess he could clarify that.

Thus I'm surprised that you're ready to lynch one of the TinCow voters, I think they deserve some credit for now, even if there's at least 2 anti-town factions. It would be nice to know if TinCow's partners could have been killed if they were voting for him, because if that's the case, we can probably assume that none of them were.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Yes. It was better before, now I'd rather go for someone else.

It's good to express your feelings in a mafia game.

@pizza: it's not a theory to try, it's what I think has worked well in the past. Essentially we get extra lynches, without killing anyone.

[Reenk Roink]

I just want to throw out some mafia theory I'm toying with.

Oh goody. :rolleyes:


At this stage in the game, the day period is not about lynching mafia. It's about not lynching town.

Almost a vacuous tautology given that there is no no lynch; perhaps an endorsement to go ahead and kill protown roles?

Might as well kill Glenn if this is what you're thinking because he will be WoG'd anyway.


blah

As Atpg pointed out, conversion means 'avoiding lynching town' will very likely not work. Might as well go and kill people who look like they want to join Mafia, in which case Beefy seems like the best pick (although I'm very saddened if this happens).

[Askthepizzaguy]

Nobody is saying that you shouldn't vote for someone based on behavior or use logic (whatever that means since it's pretty clear you ain't using 'logic' properly in that statement), that's pretty much the main reason people are voted on. People like me are instead pointing out that analyzing things on PAST behavior is very easily countered by Mafia, and wanting to know why you interpret Nictel's post as "flinching" and describe it with many adjectives. You basically said very little using many words on why Nictel was guilty, and pushed it very hard for a early round lynch.

I don't believe I've found a method of analysis or reasoning for votes that you've ever agreed with; I also don't think I've found a suspect that you and I have ever agreed on. You are critical of my methods but short of just nodding and agreeing with what you say, I don't think I'm going to meet your expectations.

Maybe my methods are different than yours, and if we all behaved the same way or played the same way, the game would be boring. I don't ask you to stop being Reenk; let me be Pizza.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Almost a vacuous tautology given that there is no no lynch; perhaps an endorsement to go ahead and kill protown roles?

It's an introductory statement.


As Atpg pointed out, conversion means 'avoiding lynching town' will very likely not work. Might as well go and kill people who look like they want to join Mafia, in which case Beefy seems like the best pick (although I'm very saddened if this happens).

Don't scoff at things when you miss the point badly :fishing:


JHT was one of the early voters on TinCow, and kept his vote there until the end, so if you're looking for a reason not to vote him, that's it.

You're impressed by this?


Vote: TinCow

[Reenk Roink]

I don't believe I've found a method of analysis or reasoning for votes that you've ever agreed with; I also don't think I've found a suspect that you and I have ever agreed on. You are critical of my methods but short of just nodding and agreeing with what you say, I don't think I'm going to meet your expectations.

Maybe my methods are different than yours, and if we all behaved the same way or played the same way, the game would be boring. I don't ask you to stop being Reenk; let me be Pizza.

And add hyperbole to the list... :rolleyes: Well no crap, nobody's stopping you from voting who you like or doing what you like, don't start this with me after you started it with Sasaki. But then people are allowed to criticize it, especially when you bark loudest.

[Romanic]

Imagine it was a 7 player game with 1 scum, and lynches were random.

1/7 chance day one.
1/5 chance day two.
1/3 chance day three.

68% chance. Good odds.


How do you get to 68%?

By my calculations the result should be 54%.

(Explanation: Chances to miss on D1 are 6/7, on D2 4/5, and on D3 2/3 so, 6/7 * 4/5 * 2/3 = 0.457 to kill a townie every day, thus 1 - 0.457 = 54.3% to kill the scum).

[Askthepizzaguy]

And add hyperbole to the list... :rolleyes: Well no crap, nobody's stopping you from voting who you like or doing what you like, don't start this with me after you started it with Sasaki. But then people are allowed to criticize it, especially when you bark loudest.

And I'm allowed to point out that your opinions are just that; opinion. It's not a fact that your methods are better. So you can criticize all you like, but you offer little in the way of why anyone should listen to you.

[Reenk Roink]

It's an introductory statement.

The context doesn't prevent it from almost being a vacuous tautology, nor does the context add some kind of meaning to it that overrides the literal meaning. It's hard enough following you all over the place, let's try to avoid making up profound maxims as well.


Don't scoff at things when you miss the point badly :fishing:

Jari Kurri had around a 30% shooting percentage in his prime, among the best ever in the history of the game. So how bout you show him how he missed the net instead of posting a fishing smiley?

[Reenk Roink]

And I'm allowed to point out that your opinions are just that; opinion. It's not a fact that your methods are better. So you can criticize all you like, but you offer little in the way of why anyone should listen to you.

I don't have set methods. Epistemological anarchism all the way. :cool: And of course my offerings why people should listen to me are more substantial than yours. I go beyond mere adjectives.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I don't have set methods. Epistemological anarchism all the way. :cool: And of course my offerings why people should listen to me are more substantial than yours.

I bet if you keep telling yourself that, it makes it true. :wink:

[Reenk Roink]

I bet if you keep telling yourself that, it makes it true. :wink:

It sure might, I mean you're one prime example!

[Sasaki Kojiro]

The context doesn't prevent it from almost being a vacuous tautology, nor does the context add some kind of meaning to it that overrides the literal meaning. It's hard enough following you all over the place, let's try to avoid making up profound maxims as well.

But it does make saying it's a vacuous tautology irrelevant. What on earth makes you think I typed that out as a profound maxim? I was typing in all caps earlier.


Jari Kurri had around a 30% shooting percentage in his prime, among the best ever in the history of the game. So how bout you show him how he missed the net instead of posting a fishing smiley?

Because it's a basic town concept that everyone knows. You go after people and then change course if you get a town read on them, and it's beneficial to do this to several people. What is arguable about that and how is it effected by recruitment?

I wrote it because I was justifying a johnH/etc lynch, with the point being that if you explore a bunch of candidates and votes accumulate on them, and you get the feeling that they aren't good lynches, even a random lynch from the unknown pool is better.

It's simple and not remotely profound.



How do you get to 68%?

By my calculations the result should be 54%.

(Explanation: Chances to miss on D1 are 6/7, on D2 4/5, and on D3 2/3 so, 6/7 * 4/5 * 2/3 = 0.457 to kill a townie every day, thus 1 - 0.457 = 54.3% to kill the scum).

I added instead of multiplied :laugh4:

[Askthepizzaguy]

It sure might, I mean you're one prime example!

Easy there Reenk, wouldn't want your ego to explode now.

[Romanic]

Maybe one of his scum buddies was on that wagon, and he wanted to lessen their chance of dying, because they are more important than him.


Hmm, I'd be surprised. It would be simpler to have his partner unvote than adding himself to the bandwagon, which (almost) double their chances to lose a teammate.

I wonder why you suddenly have interest in this Link. Are you trying to push ATPG as a scum?

Also, I find it amusing that you ask 2 other players to give up reasons for their votes (Jarema and Skooma), yet soon after you place a vote on Jarema, yourself without giving a reason. How do you explain this?

[Romanic]

I will need to scroll back to read his post in full, but from what you quoted, I will respond.

Out of GF and IDFH, and every GF member has 'GF' in their name, and every IDFH has been a 'hero' character. This would place me on the IDFH side of things.

From the information I can seem to gather though, Phazon are using IDFH members as cover roles and Samus is using GF roles as cover roles. The 'Hero' faction seems to possess both 'GF and IDFH' typical members.

So according this, if I was on a mafia team, it would be on TinCow's team, not Samus or on Team Samus.

This goes back to YLC's far-out-there theory, where I am TinCow's team mate. This is also arguably not true because TinCow is using his resources to kill me off. This is from him accusing me of being Samus, his team has night killed me, they have night killed people I know in Real Life in attempt to get at me, and his various other methods. In short, if I was Tincow's team mate, him and his team wouldn't be putting in a serious effort to kill me.

Is this true? (the bold part).

Greyblades was named "Aurora Unit 242".
Robbiecon was named "Trace".
Sasaki was named "Rundas".

No "GF" in any of them.

[Reenk Roink]

Easy there Reenk, wouldn't want your ego to explode now.

It is too resistant, alas. It also gains elasticity from irony; situations that couldn't be scripted better. :laugh4: 'butt kicking' awww yeeee. :cool:


But it does make saying it's a vacuous tautology irrelevant.

Not exactly...


Because it's a basic town concept that everyone knows. You go after people and then change course if you get a town read on them, and it's beneficial to do this to several people. What is arguable about that and how is it effected by recruitment?

The theoretical portrayal is surprisingly good to be honest. Of course practically it falters, getting reads on people is difficult. It is very much affected by recruitment though! How can you even ask???

If we feel safe in getting reads on people that we think are town and move on, these people will more likely be ignored in later game. How dangerous is this when they convert.

Of course you say, we will evaluate them as we go along, but this is again not realized as it is theorized...

[Romanic]

Jari Kurri had around a 30% shooting percentage in his prime, among the best ever in the history of the game. So how bout you show him how he missed the net instead of posting a fishing smiley?

:laugh4: Gretzky earlier, now Jari Kurri. I seem to recall you were living in Mongolia?! Is hockey popular there?

/OOG, sorry. Hockey fan, can't resist.

[Beskar]

Is this true? (the bold part).

Greyblades was named "Aurora Unit 242".
Robbiecon was named "Trace".
Sasaki was named "Rundas".

No "GF" in any of them.

Actually, it is correct. They are all metriod characters, and part of the Galatic Federation. You are taking my statement too literal.

[Reenk Roink]

:laugh4: Gretzky earlier, now Jari Kurri. I seem to recall you were living in Mongolia?! Is hockey popular there?

/OOG, sorry. Hockey fan, can't resist.

Man, I know Michigan is having economic problems but we're not comparable to Mongolia yet! :beam:

I remember you as the Habs fan Romanic. Always a favorite team of mine. And it's nice to know someone aware of Kurri. :bow: Most people I watch games with are like "OMG CROSBY > GRETZKY 25 game streak!"

[Choxorn]

People like me are instead pointing out that analyzing things on PAST behavior is very easily countered by Mafia, and wanting to know why you interpret Nictel's post as "flinching" and describe it with many adjectives. You basically said very little using many words on why Nictel was guilty, and pushed it very hard for a early round lynch.

This may be true, but past behavior can be useful for analysis. For instance, my gut and knowledge of Nictel's past games in which he was mafia tells me that this is exactly how he would act if he was mafia.

[Reenk Roink]

This may be true, but past behavior can be useful for analysis. For instance, my gut and knowledge of Nictel's past games in which he was mafia tells me that this is exactly how he would act if he was mafia.

No doubt even the past behavior method has some (quite little) merit. However, if you recall in the sense Atpg used it against Nictel, it was something along the lines of Nictel has never flinched like this before where he just exploded.

Aside from the criticism on interpreting the post as flinching/exploding, a further criticism made clear by Secura (and others I don't remember) is that it was New Years, and a particularly large bandwagon had arisen on Nictel.

Past behavior analysis (which is basically one of the metagaming features dubbed acceptable in these games) suffers from the problem of the Mafia being well cognizant and able to use it to their own benefit when the situational contexts of the current behavior and the past behavior are the same.

Here we have a case where the contexts seem to differ (again never seen Nictel play but he alluded to something similar in his defense).

[Romanic]

Actually, it is correct. They are all metriod characters, and part of the Galatic Federation. You are taking my statement too literal.

Okay, got it. Never played Metroid.


Man, I know Michigan is having economic problems but we're not comparable to Mongolia yet! :beam:

I remember you as the Habs fan Romanic. Always a favorite team of mine. And it's nice to know someone aware of Kurri. :bow: Most people I watch games with are like "OMG CROSBY > GRETZKY 25 game streak!"

Lol, Michigan. :embarassed: Sorry. I was certain to have read you lived in Mongolia... Where did I get that? :laugh4:

some more OOG to answer Reenk, sorry.
Yup, I'm a big Habs and yup Crosby's streak doesn't compare with Gretzky's (who scored 150+ points in fifty something consecutive games) but NHL is different today that it was in the 80's, less goals, bigger goalies, so it's up to debate how close Crosby really is.

[Romanic]

FoS: Yaraopolk

Pointless, and defending comment.

All we know about cover roles is that TC's looked exactly like his real role. Could be a one off, could not. Anything else is unknown.

Jill Valentine was mentioned in the writeup, so it's likely not a cover role, because those do not appear in writeups.

At least, I don't recall seeing a cover role being part of a writeup, correct me if I am wrong.

[pevergreen]

Jill Valentine was mentioned in the writeup, so it's likely not a cover role, because those do not appear in writeups.

At least, I don't recall seeing a cover role being part of a writeup, correct me if I am wrong.

You're wrong.

Koopa Troop. I, as Donkey Kong, attack Sasaki (Princess Peach). I am blocked from attacking her, by two guards. I am investigated publicly that night (Beefy was an investigator that had his results revealed publicly) and I showed up as my cover role, King Bob-omb.

As for this game, we've not seen anyone with a cover role show up, because no one thats died at night has had one.

[Romanic]

You're wrong.

Koopa Troop. I, as Donkey Kong, attack Sasaki (Princess Peach). I am blocked from attacking her, by two guards. I am investigated publicly that night (Beefy was an investigator that had his results revealed publicly) and I showed up as my cover role, King Bob-omb.

As for this game, we've not seen anyone with a cover role show up, because no one thats died at night has had one.

What I meant is that when someone is attacked at night, I don't recall seeing the writeup using the cover role name.

To be clearer, let's say that Beskar would have Jill Valentine as a cover role, but in fact would be Ugly Bad Guy.... I think the writeup would say:

Ugly Bad Guy was attacked (and survived).

and not...

Jill Valentine was attacked (and survived).

I don't recall seeing a writeup showing that the cover role was attacked.

When it comes to investigations (public or not), it's typical to have some players protected against them, and return a cover role instead of the true identity, so I don't consider your example to be good. I still believe that Jill Valentine cannot be a cover role, because she was attacked and the writeup said so.

[pevergreen]

I don't recall seeing a writeup showing that the cover role was attacked.

Point me to someone being attacked (and killed, since beskar is still alive) that has had a cover role, in this game.

[Double A]

Motep mentioned that (all?) mafia had the ability to kill one of their voter in the previous instances of "Council of Vilains".

1) Is this true?
2) Did every mafia player have this ability, or only a few (or only one)?
3) Could scum partners be killed if they were voting for the lynchee?

I'm too lazy to look for this myself. Particularly interested in answer #3.

Hey I found a post that was gobbeled up in the Pizza/Sasaki post parade!

In Koopa Troop, there wasn't a single character who killed people when they were lynched. I think. There was a joker, but nothing else like that.

[TinCow]

BlahbLahblAhblaHBlahbLahblAhblaHBlahbLahblAhblaH

Can't you people stop talking and just lynch someone? I think I can speak for both Dark Samus and Samus on this one...

I got a fever, and the only prescription...is more KILLLLLLLLL!!!!(*)




(*) Desire for murder does not apply to wonderful townies who love their mafia allies. We want to hug them instead.

[God Emperor]

If anyone have a tally at hand, could they post it ?

[Death is yonder]

Hmm from my quick skim the Seon lead seems fairly decent, since ATPG is supposedly innocent and Beefy is as I mentioned before... Beefy-ish (which isn't much of a case to lynch him by really).

Unvote: Abstain
Vote: Seon

In any case, since it seems to have dropped, I'll reiterate what Sasaki said.

Ironside has churned out information that he should otherwise not have, that Beskar is somehow IDFH and Sasaki double checked and found out that that was the first context of "Jill Valentine" (Beskar's alleged character role) and "IDFH" together.

Could be perfect information syndrome, but I'll just toss it out again since it seems to have been swallowed up by discussion between Reenk,Sasaki and ATPG.

In any case, Ironside for this recent seems to be a fairly decent lynch for the next phase, this slip of tongue shouldn't be let off.

Anything to say about this Ironside?

[Jarema]

There were sopme accusations against me.
It is hard to answer them after one or two pages of posts, that is why I did not respond to them at the first time. Now, I will try.
ATPG, I escaped from TinCow wagon just because I want to survive. I try to win games I play in, and in this one part of winning is surviving in my case. It is really simple.
Link, I voted for Glenn because between main lynch candidates he was looking the most suspicious to me. I did not have any reason not mentioned by others before me.

[classical_hero]

After some going through the thread, I think unvote,vote:Seon is a good one for now. But I think the cases so far presented on anyone does seem weak, but I don't have much to go on. I do believe that abstain is not a good option in any situation.

[TinCow]

This bores me.

Since, other than Sasaki, you are all incapable of spotting the obvious scum in your midst, I will help you.

ATPG is Ridley, in either Meta or Omega form. He pretended to be an ally of the Phazon, but he made an error that tipped me off. I cannot discuss this error due to limitations imposed on me by being dead. ATPG attacked Beskar last night. You can see his clear Ridley-ness in the attack.

Ridley is an independent/neutral party and he is a threat to everyone. He needs to kill both mafias and the town, and will win solo. For confirmation of his third party nature, look no further than the N0 write-up. First Samus’ mafia team is seen boarding the ship, then Dark Samus’ mafia team. Then, a third party enters:


“Admiral Dane, I believe you should be seeing this.”

A holo-screen stretched across the wall. On it, what appeared to be a large, metallic dragon was rocketing towards them through space. All of a sudden, a massive crash rocked the entire ship, and the lights dimmed for a moment.

That is ATPG as Meta/Omega Ridley. If you still doubt how much of a threat Ridley is to everyone, I suggest you google the character name. We considered simply killing him, but he likely has significant defenses against night attacks, leaving a lynching as the only reliable way to dispose of him. I suggest you do it ASAP, as he is likely growing in power every night.

You're welcome, Samus. :bow:

[Beskar]

TinCow, the from the reason you want him dead, isn't because he is 'scum', it is because he is a threat to you a Samus, who are in fact the scum.

If you want rid of him, go and night kill him. :laugh4:

[TinCow]

TinCow, the from the reason you want him dead, isn't because he is 'scum', it is because he is a threat to you a Samus, who are in fact the scum.

If you want rid of him, go and night kill him. :laugh4:

You're seriously going to argue that the character Ridley is friendly to the GF and IDFH?

[Beskar]

You're seriously going to argue that the character Ridley is friendly to the GF and IDFH?

Well, I can make it really easy. He is after killing you, and he makes you wet your pants. As he goes munching on your Dark Samus and Samus, he will be doing us a big favour. Also, he cannot be recruited by you or Samus.

Plus, apparently he has 'strong defenses', you should focus your efforts on putting him down then. Make it multiple attempts too. Better than attacking innocents.

[Secura]

I was surprised to see Shepard in game and as a girl no less

It was MaleShep at first, but Chaotix said I could be FempShep if I wanted, so I accepted. :P


But if Beefy dies I will lose all reason for attempting to follow this game further and I kinda like this game and the drama and discussion in it even though I'm not a fan of the setting. :sad: Pretty sure I'll just look at the summary thread from time to time to read Chaotix's nice story. Also, I will not suppress my desire to see TinCow's group win it because I like what TinCow has done so far in the game. In fact, even now the second best thing that could happen except a pure town victory would be Dark Samus winning for me (I was IDFH).

Your posting has been quite helpful and insightful, even though you're dead; I hope that you continue doing so even if Beefy dies. :3


By the way, I wish God Emperor dies. Retaliation vote, plus you never did give me that 20 gold... :deal:

Crikey, someone talking about Aeducan Succession! I never did understand why you demanded that gold... :P


ATPG is...

As a deceased player, are you allowed to reveal this information?

[TinCow]

As a deceased player, are you allowed to reveal this information?

Dead players are not prevented from accusing others, nor are they prevented from speculating as to other players roles. I have not disclosed any information that I received from PMs or night results. The only evidence I have cited is available to all in Chaotix's write-ups.

[ULC]

Hmm from my quick skim the Seon lead seems fairly decent, since ATPG is supposedly innocent and Beefy is as I mentioned before... Beefy-ish (which isn't much of a case to lynch him by really).

Unvote: Abstain
Vote: Seon

In any case, since it seems to have dropped, I'll reiterate what Sasaki said.

Ironside has churned out information that he should otherwise not have, that Beskar is somehow IDFH and Sasaki double checked and found out that that was the first context of "Jill Valentine" (Beskar's alleged character role) and "IDFH" together.

Could be perfect information syndrome, but I'll just toss it out again since it seems to have been swallowed up by discussion between Reenk,Sasaki and ATPG.

In any case, Ironside for this recent seems to be a fairly decent lynch for the next phase, this slip of tongue shouldn't be let off.

Anything to say about this Ironside?

Saying Jill Valentine isn't IDFH or Hero is equivalent of having a Marvel vs Street Fighter setting and wondering why someone would accuse Ryu of being in league with the Street Fighter side of the town. Jill Valentine is from the Resident Evil universe, not the Metriod one, so it is either IDFH or a cover role.

[Greyblades]

unvote; vote: Beefy

For not trying.



http://www.nastyhobbit.org/data/media/13/picard-facepalm.jpg

There we go! Just add a fail caption at the bottom of the pic and it'd be perfect.


Dead players are not prevented from accusing others, nor are they prevented from speculating as to other players roles. I have not disclosed any information that I received from PMs or night results. The only evidence I have cited is available to all in Chaotix's write-ups.
You're not allowed to reveal role pm's and I dont think sending in quotes from pms is permitted either.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I can buy that. solo third party is necessarily immune to all investigations.

We should lynch seon today and pizza tomorrow.

[TinCow]

You're not allowed to reveal role pm's and I dont think sending in quotes from pms is permitted either.

I did not do either. The quote is from Chaotix's Night 0 writeup...

[Ironside]

Ironside has churned out information that he should otherwise not have, that Beskar is somehow IDFH and Sasaki double checked and found out that that was the first context of "Jill Valentine" (Beskar's alleged character role) and "IDFH" together.

Could be perfect information syndrome, but I'll just toss it out again since it seems to have been swallowed up by discussion between Reenk,Sasaki and ATPG.

In any case, Ironside for this recent seems to be a fairly decent lynch for the next phase, this slip of tongue shouldn't be let off.

Anything to say about this Ironside?

That Chaotix isn't a well known writer of Metroid/Resident evil fanfic. And that I didn't consider the Hero faction when writing that. But the GF faction is incredibly short stacked on names, which it shouldn't, if any names comes from other places than the metroid series. Ergo, Jill Valentine is either IDFH or Hero. And Beskar has claimed to have been attacked and survived last night and only Jill did that. The true Jill haven't counter claimed, thus Beskar is Jill.
:logic:

Unvote: ATPG
Vote: Abstain
Going on Beskar's contact here and a lack of good lynches as far as I can see.

While Tincow might be correct, it's no hurry to take out the serial killer, at least not until we see a few night attempts. Truths, half truths, lies, speculations, etc, you're much more free to say whatever you want while being a dead mafia. I say it's much higher odds of Beskar's attacker being one of Tincow's minions. One did have a very secret mission.

[Greyblades]

I did not do either. The quote is from Chaotix's Night 0 writeup...

I know I was just reiterating.

[Seon]

May I say something?

Killing me in a lynch is as a bad idea as killing a night investigator in a lynch.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Vote for pizza then.

[pevergreen]

Righto, since seon seems to be an investigator:

Vote: ATPG

Seriously though, Seon, whats with the Tom Nook stuff? :laugh4:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I'm doubtful about seons claim. But I smell the possibility of a counterwagon lynching pizza! And it's good to let investigative claimee's slide.

mafia very likely have the ability to investigate. Pizza is a very likely early target. If you catch the SK, you ask the town to lynch him--100%. And we should, because it knocks out 1 kill a night.

[Askthepizzaguy]

*yawn*

There's really only one reason why Tincow would reveal such a thing. We got close to the jackpot based on something I did.

So, here's what I've been up to:

When someone was put forward as a lynch candidate, I contacted them and tried to get information out of them which might determine if they should be prioritized for death or not. Also, when finding out that certain people were active at night, I came up with a plan to confirm whether or not they were Samus/Dark Samus, using the investigators.

You don't need to have the top tier investigation to find such people. Beskar was informed of the plan and will carry it out in my absence.

As for my third party status: Yep. I am indeed third party; and my mission is one Beskar is already informed of, and a couple other people as well. Apparently there is a leak, or I pushed Dark Samus' button, because otherwise Tincow would have kept my anonymity a bit longer.

I can say that I am totally incorruptible and that I can be killed off the instant Samus and Dark Samus are dead, because my mission involves only those two. I can do what Chaotix did in the Star Wars game; all you have to do is remember not to leave me alive until the end (although, really, if Samus and Dark Samus are dead, it doesn't matter; I've accomplished my objective, and you nearly have as well).

Do as you will; I am a better lynch from your perspective than a townie, but I am a far more valuable ally that you'd imagine. That's why Tincow is so anxious to get rid of me.

[Beskar]

I recommend not lynching Pizza. Allow him to get night-killed by Dark Samus/Samus instead. He is a bigger threat to them then to us.

[pevergreen]

I'm doubtful about seons claim. But I smell the possibility of a counterwagon lynching pizza! And it's good to let investigative claimee's slide.

mafia very likely have the ability to investigate. Pizza is a very likely early target. If you catch the SK, you ask the town to lynch him--100%. And we should, because it knocks out 1 kill a night.

Well I suppose its dependant on what level of investigation Seon has. If he has the one like Beskar's investigator, we should keep him around a round in case, but yes, having an SK around is never good. I still get pains thinking about how TinCow fooled us all in Netherworld as the SK. Never going to get over that. :no:

edit: Beskar:

I find it very suspicious that as soon as ATPG comes under pressure, he was magically chosen to be investigated by your person last night. Which means he is the sk and you knew it, and you said he was town, which SKs are not...

Methinks I should declare war on the Paple State in a hundred years or so. :tongue:

[Askthepizzaguy]

I'm doubtful about seons claim. But I smell the possibility of a counterwagon lynching pizza! And it's good to let investigative claimee's slide.

mafia very likely have the ability to investigate. Pizza is a very likely early target. If you catch the SK, you ask the town to lynch him--100%. And we should, because it knocks out 1 kill a night.

BTW I did not kill N1, and Beskar was a target because I thought he was Samus.

I also am not killing without Beskar's permission. Beskar wants me alive. But hey, lame as these events are, I can understand why I'd be lynched. This is far better than the no-reason wagon.

Seon shouldn't be lynched, but your objectives should be to get Samus/Dark Samus and the mafia factions, same as me. I can assist with that. If anything, this forces the mafia to come and get me, and I do have a bit of resistance to their kill attempts. :evilgrin:

[Askthepizzaguy]

I am going out on a limb: I am being revealed because of a plan I had in the works to clear Renata.

Tincow didn't like it, so he revealed me.

unvote, vote: Renata

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Pizza's claim + play make him the best lynch easily. I knew you seemed off...didn't think you'd be so put out at my attacking you as a mafioso though...forgot about sk possibilities.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I am going out on a limb: I am being revealed because of a plan I had in the works to clear Renata.

Tincow didn't like it, so he revealed me.

unvote, vote: Renata

Renata is a good lynch choice (for tomorrow :p), but how did TinCow know about it?

[Beskar]

On another note; could the person who protected me reveal their identity to me in private? I will not obviously reveal you, but I want to make sure no one counter-claims saying they were my protector. :bow:

Plus there is an investigation ability going around which checks some one is active at night or not. Can vouch for you if that ever comes up on you.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Pizza's claim + play make him the best lynch easily. I knew you seemed off...didn't think you'd be so put out at my attacking you as a mafioso though...forgot about sk possibilities.

Very well. But, I'm not leaving this game without making some impact- take what I said about the reasons why Tincow revealed me seriously.

There are only so many people I've interacted with, and Beskar is aware of all of them. One of them has to be Dark Samus or a Dark Samus ally; either that or one of the people who nearly got lynched here is a Dark Samus ally.

It's plain as can be; I got close to one of your objectives. Don't let go.

[Beskar]

Renata is a good lynch choice (for tomorrow :p), but how did TinCow know about it?

Mafia quicktopic obviously, if Renata is scum. She writes "Pizza wants to clear me, but I am mafia, help me!". I biggest problem is whether or not it is coincidence.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Renata is a good lynch choice (for tomorrow :p), but how did TinCow know about it?

In order to get Renata to do something which would assist in clearing her, I contacted her and asked her to do a specific thing. She replied back in the affirmative.

Then, Tincow revealed me.

I do think they are related; either that or it's bad timing, and is related to the other candidates for a lynch.

[johnhughthom]

JohnH has a good chance of just being lazy town.

You didn't like my post and I get why, it was my own vote from my own conclusions though, so flawed as they may be it's a bit harsh to call me a lazy townie. I went through the thread trying to spot something nobody else had and Winston's post was the best I could come up with. Do I think it's a strong case? No, but would you rather I just jumped on a bandwagon?



You're impressed by this?

Indeed my vote on TC looks lazy, but it came after a private discussion with Beskar to find out more about his case.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I want to inform everyone about a couple of things about this game which are of some note.

1. Cover roles

So far, they look like the person they're disguised as. Not even vaguely, almost a mirror image. Dragonite -> Obvious Meta-Ridley. Dude who looks like Cloud -> Corrupted Cloud. I bet you the pattern holds for most of the starting mafia.

Don't believe what people claim to be, because there's no rule that says they have to claim what their cover role is. Make them appear in the write-up. If they show up in the write-up with a morphology that loosely matches what you'd expect Dark Samus/Samus/unknown killers are, you've probably got yourself a mafia.

If the pattern does hold beyond just me and Tincow, you must make people appear in the writeup. Here's how you can do it-

Have someone vig-kill them, and have the protector protect them. That makes them appear in the writeup as Chaotix-made cover role, regardless of what they WANT to appear as.

I would show up as Dragonite in the writeup, not Meta-Ridley. Same for all others with cover roles.


2. Investigation powers

I would of course be the third most powerful role in this game, as it is my mission to remove power role number one and two; the mafia godfathers respectively.

Guess what? I don't have X-ray vision. I find it very difficult to believe that town would start off with such a power, and here's why: What's the point of me having a cover role if it can be penetrated from night one?

Think about it. Who needs to have X-ray vision? Tincow was probably right about one thing, those who started with that power, are mafia. They have to be. If anyone besides Samus/Dark Samus team members has it, it should be me. Why don't I have it? Probably to make me not too powerful and my mission too easy.

However, we can learn powers in this game. I am betting I learn such a power, and in a reasonable time frame. But Beskar's investigator, is likely Samus team mafia, due to how they revealed Tincow from N1.

I have Thermal Vision. Now, coordinating with others, I can still find mafia with such a power, but it takes a little effort. If I scan someone and they're active, I can find out what they were doing, and ask them to go inactive.

If they do, and Dark Samus/Samus/pikachu/whoever turns out inactive, that's suspicious. Or it's WIFOM, but even then, one less murder, which buys you time to investigate.

[pevergreen]

So basically ATPG, beskar tries to clear you and you say hes Samus? :laugh4:

Thoughts Sasaki? ATPG today, Beskar tomorrow?

Right now, I'm sleeping.

[Askthepizzaguy]

So basically ATPG, beskar tries to clear you and you say hes Samus? :laugh4:

No, I say his investigator is a Samus team member posing as a pro-town role.

It's quite likely; Beskar is aware of how likely he is. At the same time, this person is still technically useful in ferreting out Dark Samus team members. If you keep Beskar protected, he can reveal this person at any time, if you believe they have outstayed their welcome.

Beskar can also clear this person using the other investigators.


Thoughts Sasaki? ATPG today, Beskar tomorrow?

Right now, I'm sleeping.

I agree, thoughts would be nice.

[Askthepizzaguy]

You're seriously going to argue that the character Ridley is friendly to the GF and IDFH?

Sure as heck ain't friendly with the mafia, I would say. :laugh4:

[Askthepizzaguy]

Now, let's :daisy: up Tincow's little code system so he can't get communications back from his minions.

Hi, I am Tyrannosaurus Flex, and this here would be mah buddy Rubber Ducky. Obviously we're far from loyal minions if I'm revealing our code to you.

Enjoy, it's actually a work of art. Kudos to Tincow. Shame he trusted me for even one whole round.


This is the code I will use to send a message to you in the thread, if I feel the need to do so. Your messages will be indicated as they will be addressed to Agent Tyrannosaurus Flex. I will speak plainly in the thread, but all names will be replaced by numbers. The numbers were generated by running the entire participant list (including replacements) through random.org. This is the list:


1. YLC
2. Yaropolk
3. Khazaar
4. Captain Blackadder
5. Csargo
6. Nightbringer
7. Ironside
8. Diamondeye
9. Link
10. johnhughthom
11. pevergreen
12. ByzantineKnight
13. Insanious
14. Romanic
15. Thefluffyone93
16. autolycus
17. God Emperor
18. Kagemusha
19. classical_hero
20. dcmort93
21. Winston Hughes
22. Secura
23. Jarema
24. Choxorn
25. woad&fangs
26. Greyblades
27. Sasaki Kojiro
28. Beefy187
29. robbiecon
30. Seon
31. Beskar
32. Renata
33. landlubber
34. Double A
35. TinCow
36. Nictel
37. Reenk Roink
38. Glenn
39. Askthepizzaguy
40. Death is Yonder
41. Skooma Addict
42. AntiKingWarmanCake88
43. Yaseikhaan
44. a completely inoffensive name
45. Raskolnikov
46. Motep
47. Frozen in Ice
48. Cecil XIX
49. Rebel Jeb


This list is unique to you. All others receiving similar codes will have different random.org lists, so they will not be able to understand the information I am giving you, and vice versa. If you wish to communicate with me, begin a post a post with a VOWEL as the first letter, and make it LOWERCASE. In that post, any name you list in the third line should be a GF-aligned person or someone else you think we need to kill. If you want to give more information than that, I will pay very close attention to what you write in line two. Figure out a way to put that information in there, and I will do my best to interpret your meaning. Remember, I will only look for encoded information from you in a post that begins with a lower case vowel. Do not use a lower case vowel at the start if you do not wish to communicate with me.

I know you are preparing a different code. Feel free to do so. If I like it better, I may use it, but will not decide until I see it.


This is the code I will use to send a message to you in the thread, if I feel the need to do so. Your messages will be indicated as they will be addressed to Agent Rubber Ducky. I will speak plainly in the thread, but all names will be replaced by numbers. The numbers were generated by running the entire participant list (including replacements) through random.org. This is the list:


1. Captain Blackadder
2. Insanious
3. Seon
4. Death is Yonder
5. Thefluffyone93
6. Secura
7. Jarema
8. Beskar
9. Askthepizzaguy
10. Winston Hughes
11. AntiKingWarmanCake88
12. Greyblades
13. autolycus
14. Beefy187
15. Romanic
16. robbiecon
17. pevergreen
18. TinCow
19. dcmort93
20. Diamondeye
21. Renata
22. Khazaar
23. Nictel
24. Yaseikhaan
25. YLC
26. classical_hero
27. Kagemusha
28. Choxorn
29. Link
30. Ironside
31. Glenn
32. God Emperor
33. Double A
34. woad&fangs
35. Csargo
36. Frozen in Ice
37. Cecil XIX
38. Rebel Jeb
39. Sasaki Kojiro
40. Nightbringer
41. Yaropolk
42. Raskolnikov
43. johnhughthom
44. a completely inoffensive name
45. Motep
46. landlubber
47. ByzantineKnight
48. Skooma Addict
49. Reenk Roink


This list is unique to you. All others receiving similar codes will have different random.org lists, so they will not be able to understand the information I am giving you, and vice versa. If you wish to communicate with me, put a smilie somewhere in the MIDDLE of the second sentence of your post. In that post, any name you list in the last line should be a GF-aligned person or someone else you think we need to kill. If you want to give more information than that, I will pay very close attention to what you write in the second to last line. Figure out a way to put that information in there, and I will do my best to interpret your meaning. Remember, I will only look for encoded information from you in a post that where there is a smilie somewhere in the MIDDLE of the second sentence. Do not put a smilie in the middle of the second sentence if you do not wish to communicate with me.

If you do not claim to have any active abilities, do not expect to receive much information from me as it would generally be pointless. If you currently have no abilities but later gain the ability to vig kill or investigate, it will be important for you to communicate that to me. As such, if you gain the ability to vig kill, when you make a coded post to me, FOS one (and only one) person. The FOS will mean nothing to me, but will tell me you can now vig. Similarly, if you gain the ability to investigate, do the same thing but FOS two people instead. Remember, only do this in a post with the proper code indicating I should pay attention to it.

So I am guessing mister Tincow, in his infinite wisdom, did indeed alter the code slightly for each person. You can probably find similar code-like behavior embedded in people's posts. Anyone with a lot of time on his hands (HI!!! MY NAME IS PIZZAGUY) will look for any such secretive communications.

Sorry mister cow, but it's still a cookiecutter pattern and you'll need to send out new codes now.





....What's that?

You can't???

Awww. :cry:

I encourage everyone who has gotten such a code to reveal it publicly, so you can see the master's handiwork. Tincow's moves last round were genius, this time, I intend to show him that he got a wee bit too cocky.

Bad move, Tincrow. Very bad crow.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

It's a good plan. But one thing I remember from rubicon and capo is that most people can't be bothered to work with the mafia.

I suppose we should look for someone ending their post with a smilie.

[TinCow]

So I am guessing mister Tincow, in his infinite wisdom, did indeed alter the code slightly for each person. You can probably find similar code-like behavior embedded in people's posts. Anyone with a lot of time on his hands (HI!!! MY NAME IS PIZZAGUY) will look for any such secretive communications.

Good luck with that! As is clear, I anticipated this exact scenario when I created the codes. Have fun reading until your eyes bleed. :bow:

[Askthepizzaguy]

Good luck with that! As is clear, I anticipated this exact scenario when I created the codes. Have fun reading until your eyes bleed. :bow:

It's worth it, mister crow. I promise you this much, I will have your whole team eating crow before the game ends, dead or not. You make Omega mad; smash, etc.

:clown:


It's a good plan. But one thing I remember from rubicon and capo is that most people can't be bothered to work with the mafia.

I suppose we should look for someone ending their post with a smilie.

That code is only useful for one person, and Beskar knows who; they won't be sending any further such communications.

I doubt they ever intended to work with tincow to begin with if they told me their code immediately.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

For a change, I suggest a genuine random lynch day 1. I just did a random.org and it returned "3".

vote:askthepizzaguy

Lol :bounce:

It really was random too.

[TinCow]

It's worth it, mister crow. I promise you this much, I will have your whole team eating crow before the game ends, dead or not. You make Omega mad; smash, etc.

:clown:

Please understand that I'm just playing a game here, I do not wish to cause personal animosity between us. I know I have been a bit cocky in my posts, but that's exactly how a dead mafioso needs to act IMHO. OOC, I am greatly impressed by the boldness of what you attempted here, any comment I have made that would make it seem otherwise is unintentional and the result of pure-IC bravado.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Please understand that I'm just playing a game here, I do not wish to cause personal animosity between us. I know I have been a bit cocky in my posts, but that's exactly how a dead mafioso needs to act IMHO. OOC, I am greatly impressed by the boldness of what you attempted here, any comment I have made that would make it seem otherwise is unintentional and the result of pure-IC bravado.

Oh heck yeah, Tincow. You actually just made this game far more interesting.

Truth be told, if I did my mission as I was probably expected to do, which is random kill until your Samus twins are dead, it would have simply been a game of who can randomly kill who the fastest.

Meh. Boring.

An element of danger, and being forced to work with the town, just makes me feel like Capo all over again. I promise you, if they'll let me, I will deliver a nice pile of dead mafiosi to the town, just to put an emphasis on how much I appreciate being revealed. :evilgrin:

You might have just handed me the tools I need to get the job done, so thanks.

[Greyblades]

Gotta say, its allways interesting when an anti town gets screwed over and wants revenge.

[Yaropolk]

Unvote; Vote:Renata per above accusation from ATPG

[Beskar]

If anyone was curious, I will say my side of the whole ATPG thing.

If you remember, I posted something which made me heavily suspect Pizza. Basically, Pizza and TinCow were using some very similar phrases and arguments, and something in particular made link between them I couldn't deny. So I contacted Pizza for more information. Anyway, after a while, especially after a certain post of mine (about factions), Pizza realized I was incorruptible. This means I cannot be recruited by either Samus or Dark Samus. This was also confirmed separately by another claimed 'Hero' in a PM to me stating that I have been checked for corruptibility and I was found to be incorruptible.

Anyway, Pizza full-revealed to me. He said that he has two abilities, a scan and a kill ability. His role is to kill both Samus and Dark Samus, if he succeeds, he can win with the town. If they are alive, he is classed as SK and needs to be killed (I assume this is for maifa /w town faction victories). I lied in thread about him being cleared, to have him hang around, as he assured me that he will say who he was killing in advance, and since we both share the same objective in killing Samus and Dark Samus mafias, I saw no reason for us not to give him some space to do his work, afterall, I could just post in thread with "Lynch him" if required.

If you was also curious, since it was brought up about the 'investigator', they have claimed a GF role, similar to YLC's. Assuming that this investigator is a possible mafia, this gives the implication for a statement I made in thread about team Samus having GF cover-roles and team Dark Samus having IDFH cover-roles. This investigator is also in a situation if I do end up randomly targeted, I can reveal them (in a way within the rules) who they are, so the town can lynch them, or Dark Samus to night kill. So either way, I covered my back incase they are a mafia, however, I am willing to work with this person, even if the results do end up some what one-sided, as it will assist in getting rid of mafia, and allowing me to have a greater picture of who is actually who in the game.

Ultimately so far, the town seems to be in a strong position. If we want to have a real chance of taking down the mafia, there needs to be some element of trust from people. Feel free to reveal some information about yourself to me and I will use it with confidence in whacking another mafia. :bow:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Pizza should be lynched today.

We'll wagon renata tomorrow and see what she has to say.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

This is a compliment to pizza--he's too good to let him live. And unpredictable in his affiliations.

I remember first hand from the shadow fort how much he can influence things his way in a town group.

[DELETE_THIS]

So ATPG, not only have you been working with tincow, you have an ally as well? I don't know any innocent roles that would have someone they can trust this early on. My vote stands. I suspect you were trying to, as a third party, use the mafia for your benefit. Now with tincow's reveal the whole thing has blown up in your face. I will not turn a blind eye this time. My vote stands and I suggest others to vote for ATPG as well. He IS a third party, he WILL try to win this game for himself and we can NOT trust him or his suggestions. Sure some of them may be mafia to give him credit, but in the end all we will find is a dagger in our backs.

[Greyblades]

Eh couldnt we just use him for a turn or two and then lynch him if he turns out to be unhelpful? Seems like a waste anyway seeing as the mafia are going to try to night kill him, I say let them waste a night.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Eh couldnt we just use him for a turn or two and then lynch him if he turns out to be unhelpful? Seems like a waste anyway seeing as the mafia are going to try to night kill him, I say let them waste a night.

We don't know if there is a big downside. There could be.

The mafia won't kill him because they know we are going to lynch him. And we don't know that they can kill him--nk immunity would be almost required for that role.

Lynch the serial killer...

[Greyblades]

No you just think they wont try to kill him. I say give him a turn to prove he's helpful to the town if he's useful we keep him him if not we lynch him. Oh and it doesnt matter if he's nk immune as its still a wasted kill if they try.

[woad&fangs]

unvote: Seon; Vote: Renata
I can't believe I took ATPG's pm investigator claims at face value. Gah! That said, I'm willing to work with a serial killer to accomplish town goals.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Read between the lines.

He didn't kill night one, so he has powers we don't know about.

Night two he tried to kill an investigator--I doubt his story for this one. He's much more likely to infiltrate and try and get information out of someone he thinks is mafia than to just off them.

His comments today make it clear that he considers this being forced to work with the town.

This quote is nice:


Shame he trusted me for even one whole round.

And the fact is, if you wanted to "use" him there's no logical reason not to do it for 6+ days or so. Will people who don't want to lynch him today be up in arms to lynch him tomorrow? Of course not.


No you just think they wont try to kill him. I say give him a turn to prove he's helpful to the town if he's useful we keep him him if not we lynch him. Oh and it doesnt matter if he's nk immune as its still a wasted kill if they try.

Why would they try? Please. I don't "just think" I gave good reasons. He's likely to be nk immune or have acquired doc protection, and a likely lynch which helps the mafia. Additionally there are two scum teams and that always makes a bit of wifom about killing. You just believe for no good reason.

[Askthepizzaguy]

This is a compliment to pizza--he's too good to let him live. And unpredictable in his affiliations.

I remember first hand from the shadow fort how much he can influence things his way in a town group.

I appreciate the compliment Sasaki.

This is also understandable. I was a revealed Lover in the Zelda game and people let me live thinking "ah, we'll lynch him later".

I get it. If anyone is dangerous even as a revealed SK, I am. :bow:

That said, you guys really could use my help. Mafia will attempt (and fail, initially) to kill me. Odds are, I will die soon enough anyway. Just asking for a little time is all.


So ATPG, not only have you been working with tincow, you have an ally as well? I don't know any innocent roles that would have someone they can trust this early on. My vote stands. I suspect you were trying to, as a third party, use the mafia for your benefit. Now with tincow's reveal the whole thing has blown up in your face. I will not turn a blind eye this time. My vote stands and I suggest others to vote for ATPG as well. He IS a third party, he WILL try to win this game for himself and we can NOT trust him or his suggestions. Sure some of them may be mafia to give him credit, but in the end all we will find is a dagger in our backs.

You're right in that I was trying to abuse Tincow; I revealed I was hunting for Samus, said I could be his ally.

This was primarily to get his murders off my back and hopefully onto other mafia or convertible townies; anyone but me basically. I ain't gonna lie about that. I figured there was also a way to glean information from him; I'd reveal who I was going to kill and then he'd stop me if it were Dark Samus.

However, I also revealed to several people that I was working with Tincow to gain information. I never had any intention of seriously cooperating with him; I needed to kill his boss.

I made a mistake somewhere, revealed to the wrong person or simply nailed Dark Samus with the Renata plan. Otherwise I could have gained more info. But honestly, what I got from Tincow already was more than worth it.


No you just think they wont try to kill him. I say give him a turn to prove he's helpful to the town if he's useful we keep him him if not we lynch him. Oh and it doesnt matter if he's nk immune as its still a wasted kill if they try.

Even one less murder would make me useful to the town.

The fact that I can vig-kill basically gives you a "second lynch" as well. Vote who you want to die, in addition to the lynch, and I'll kill the top-voted person.

Or I can follow leads that Beskar and I and other incorruptibles are working on. Either way.

Well, offer is on the table. I think there's enough game time remaining to make me useful, like Chaotix was in the previous game. Just remember to have me lynched later on, is all.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Night two he tried to kill an investigator--I doubt his story for this one. He's much more likely to infiltrate and try and get information out of someone he thinks is mafia than to just off them.

Wrong; I'm interested in information, but not the kind that comes from the mafia families whose Godfathers I need to destroy.

I don't consider Beskar's detective, who I actually thought was Beskar, to be a reliable source of information (for me). They might be useful to you, but only for removing the Dark Samus team, until proven otherwise.

[woad&fangs]

He didn't kill night one, so he has powers we don't know about.

He can scan for activity/inactivity. On night 1 he claims to have scanned me. Seeing as he correctly identified me as inactive, I am inclined to believe him.

[Askthepizzaguy]

He can scan for activity/inactivity. On night 1 he claims to have scanned me. Seeing as he correctly identified me as inactive, I am inclined to believe him.

I felt this early in the game (as with the previous game) those who are active at night are likely to be town power roles, or mafia. The thermal scan is a big indicator of guilt. About half, I'd say, of the active parties, will be guilty. Unless town has a lot of useless powers. A lot of people I've spoken to have no active powers. That said, if you have an active power, it would be a good idea to reveal to Beskar that you do. Thermal scan is actually a fairly common power, and if it finds people are completely inactive, and Samus/etc are active that night, that's process of elimination.

If we can get an idea of how many townies have actual active powers (mafia will lie, so give/take 3-6 for margin of error) then we can use Thermal Scan and identify inactive townies or mafia who are keeping their heads down.

We'll get the inactive mafia soon enough; but we absolutely need to get the ones that kill.

Thermal scan will be less useful in the late game, exactly like Investigation I was useless at the end of my game. Use it now, and coordinate.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I wish I had pm's. What's the votecount?

[Askthepizzaguy]

What's the votecount?


Glenn: 5 (Cecil, Jarema, Frozen, Insanious, dcmort)
Beefy: 5 (Beefy, Renata, Romanic, Beskar, Seon)
Seon: 5 (Winston, Csargo, pevergreen, DIY, Classical)

Renata: 3 (ATPG, Yaropolk, woad&fangs)

Jarema: 2 (ByzantineKnight, Link

Frozen: 1 (Diamondeye)
Fluffy: 1 (Double A
landlubber: 1 (Glenn)
Csargo: 1 (Khazaar)
pevergreen: 1 (God Emperor)
Winston: 1 (johnhughthom)
Khazaar: 1 (landlubber)
Insanious: 1 (Skooma)
ATPG: 1 (Nictel)

Abstaining: Thefluffyone, Ironside


Just want to point out, I am not messing with the tally. pever never unvoted to vote me. Though if you do see an error, please correct.


I need to leave for work in 2 hours. I would like you guys to tell me where you want my vote by then; it's possible I am not awake/here when the round ends.

I will say that the case on Renata is based on a hunch plus some data, but it's also equally likely if not more likely to be wrong. It's a risky lynch; it's not a slam dunk. But out of all the suspects on this list, I still say Renata is more likely to be who we're looking for than anyone.

I really have no reason to want to see this lynch go badly for the town. That's only going to get me killed faster. I would like it if you got a scumbag this round for very obvious reasons.


Also reminder: please indicate who you want me to assassinate tonight. Come up with two suspects, not just one. Or tell me to investigate. Whichever.

[Winston Hughes]

Deal with the devil, eh?

I've got to hand it to you pizza - nobody's more tenacious in fighting a lost cause. Even as I type this, I keep changing my mind about whether it's sane to let you live. I recall having lynched you in vaguely similar situations, and having been glad I did. I also know that you'll be making the same arguments every day from now on, and drawing the focus of each day's discussion onto your own case by your mere presence. On the other hand, it seems clear that the town can benefit greatly from your assistance now that we have you on something of a leash.

Ah, what the hey...

unvote; vote: Renata
(Sorry, old buddy. If you turn out to be innocent, I hope we can look forward to some of your razor-sharp analysis from beyond the grave.)

[Diamondeye]

AT LEAST WE KNOW YOU DON'T CARE WHO DIES TODAY AS LONG AS IT ISN'T A PARTNER, SCUM

I love you, Sasaki :beam:


What I meant is that when someone is attacked at night, I don't recall seeing the writeup using the cover role name.

To be clearer, let's say that Beskar would have Jill Valentine as a cover role, but in fact would be Ugly Bad Guy.... I think the writeup would say:

Ugly Bad Guy was attacked (and survived).

and not...

Jill Valentine was attacked (and survived).

I don't recall seeing a writeup showing that the cover role was attacked.

When it comes to investigations (public or not), it's typical to have some players protected against them, and return a cover role instead of the true identity, so I don't consider your example to be good. I still believe that Jill Valentine cannot be a cover role, because she was attacked and the writeup said so.

What you're assuming indicates that the attacker will learn the connection between player name and real (not cover) role. Have you considered that?


May I say something?

Killing me in a lynch is as a bad idea as killing a night investigator in a lynch.

Elaborate :stare:


Now, let's :daisy: up Tincow's little code system so he can't get communications back from his minions.

Hi, I am Tyrannosaurus Flex, and this here would be mah buddy Rubber Ducky. Obviously we're far from loyal minions if I'm revealing our code to you.

Enjoy, it's actually a work of art. Kudos to Tincow. Shame he trusted me for even one whole round.

So I am guessing mister Tincow, in his infinite wisdom, did indeed alter the code slightly for each person. You can probably find similar code-like behavior embedded in people's posts. Anyone with a lot of time on his hands (HI!!! MY NAME IS PIZZAGUY) will look for any such secretive communications.

Sorry mister cow, but it's still a cookiecutter pattern and you'll need to send out new codes now.
....What's that?

You can't???

Awww. :cry:

I encourage everyone who has gotten such a code to reveal it publicly, so you can see the master's handiwork. Tincow's moves last round were genius, this time, I intend to show him that he got a wee bit too cocky.

Bad move, Tincrow. Very bad crow.

That is an impressive system you've built there, TinCow. Props :bow:
Also, the silent roach croaks at midnight. Past the moon, eighteen doves fly lazily by. It is winter.


Also reminder: please indicate who you want me to assassinate tonight. Come up with two suspects, not just one. Or tell me to investigate. Whichever.

You might want to investigate Seon or Beskar, or, if bloodthirsty,
vigilante kill any unvoters from the TC wagon.

Also, unvote:Frozen, Vote:Renata

Awfully quiet, Renata?

[Askthepizzaguy]

I've got to hand it to you pizza - nobody's more tenacious in fighting a lost cause.

It's not lost if I can go for a roll in the hay with the Samus twins before I die.

<object style="height: 390px; width: 640px"><param name="movie" value="https://www.youtube.com/v/HOnQZxj07Mw?version=3"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="https://www.youtube.com/v/HOnQZxj07Mw?version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="390"></object>
:cool:

[Ironside]

Now, let's :daisy: up Tincow's little code system so he can't get communications back from his minions.

Hi, I am Tyrannosaurus Flex, and this here would be mah buddy Rubber Ducky. Obviously we're far from loyal minions if I'm revealing our code to you.


Hah, called it.


Judging from your nice colour coding, Beskar was attacked by a vigi. Probably Agent Tyrannosaurus Flex, unless Tincow got creative with the number coding.



Why would they try? Please. I don't "just think" I gave good reasons. He's likely to be nk immune or have acquired doc protection, and a likely lynch which helps the mafia. Additionally there are two scum teams and that always makes a bit of wifom about killing. You just believe for no good reason.

Colour coded killings means that he's quite traceable despite the two scum teams. Agreed that he should never be alive below 15 left. Do we know if there's a lynch resistance abillity in this game? Like force breath? If it is, then ATPG needs his removed.

Keep night killings to a minimum, the longer we last, the greater our odds. Unlike ATPG.

Unvote: Vote: Renata

If this turns wrong, then sorry Renata.

They could've simply figured ATPG out with simple cover role similarity, but there's probably something more here as well.

[Diamondeye]

I wonder what Chaotix thinks when he finds that we've created a 4-way tie to end the 3-way tie situation :laugh4:

[Askthepizzaguy]

I wonder what Chaotix thinks when he finds that we've created a 4-way tie to end the 3-way tie situation :laugh4:

Don't, just don't. Knowing Chaotix, and my luck, it will be 4 dead townies.

Also, I don't have a lynch immunity. Like you can take my word for it, but there it is. I would die on the first lynch, as hopefully Samus et al will.

[Diamondeye]

Don't, just don't. Knowing Chaotix, and my luck, it will be 4 dead townies.

Also, I don't have a lynch immunity. Like you can take my word for it, but there it is. I would die on the first lynch, as hopefully Samus et al will.

Do you have the Overdrive ability?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Do you have the Overdrive ability?

No, I don't. If I gain either power, I will let you know.

Why? Because I have a trustworthy face. I know it's around here somewhere.


edit: All right I'm off. Vote stays on Renata. Don't forget to tell me who to investigate or kill, especially if you have a solid lead on someone.

[Frozen In Ice]

I really hope I don't regret this Pizza, but I agree that we should let you live. Renata still seems like a longshot, but still more likely than just randomly choosing someone to be lynched. Unvote, vote: Renata

[Greyblades]

Deal with the devil, eh?

I've got to hand it to you pizza - nobody's more tenacious in fighting a lost cause.

You want a lost cause you should have seen me in noble sons 2.

[Seon]

Well, if nothing else, I scanned Renata yesterday and found out that she was using an active ability. It's a weak evidence, but there you go.

Unvote. Vote: Renata

[Frozen In Ice]

I can't completely trust that what you say is true Seon, but this an interesting development indeed. We should go through with the Renata lynch.

[Csargo]

While I'm not sure about the Renata lynch in itself, I am sure that the reason we're lynching her is a bad one. I'm putting my vote back on Unvote:, Vote:ATPG for now.

[thefluffyone93]

Well, after reading through 3 whole pages, I'm still not entirely convinced, but
Unvote; Vote: Renata
Is this vote coming in too late?

[landlubber]

The best way to help the town now is unvote, vote: Renata.

[Link]

I agree Vote: Renata

[Beefy187]

Sorry for all the trouble.
I want to thank those who fought for my life when I was away.
I was out all day yesterday and got back at midnight :sweatdrop:

I promise to play properly from next day onwards as I think I'm getting a powerful ability this night phase and I wanted to survive till then.

[Winston Hughes]

Well, if nothing else, I scanned Renata yesterday and found out that she was using an active ability. It's a weak evidence, but there you go.

Do we have a claim for this ability?


While I'm not sure about the Renata lynch in itself, I am sure that the reason we're lynching her is a bad one.

You're right. Lynching what could be a town power role to save a known villain, based on weak evidence supplied by that villain, and leaving her virtually no chance to respond...

If Renata were around to argue her case, it seems impossible we'd be lynching her instead of ATPG.

unvote; vote: ATPG

You're too good at this, pizza. When even I'm falling for the 'let me live long enough to help' schtick, it shows just how dangerous it is to cut you any slack at all.

[Reenk Roink]

Niiiiice. :balloon2: So if I am reading this right, TinCow and team Dark Samus and Atpg have a falling out, which leads TinCow to expose Atpg and Atpg to expose Renata.

This game is more than just GF and IDFH though (as any dead GF/IDFH will affirm) there are all of these anti town roles that have to be killed. Obviously it is extremely likely that Atpg is one of them and his claim of only being just anti Samus and Dark Samus is BS. Kill him unless he keeps feeding us Mafia in lieu of him. When he runs out or they run out, kill him.

Also TinCow, I'm very upset at you about this:


You're welcome, Samus. :bow:

I can't believe you would even think to help Samus out by doing this. :brood: This reminds me of all the Mafia families in Capo 3 working together, which is just total crap.

Defeating and killing Team Samus should be done FIRST, then killing the SKs, then the town which is the weakest of your enemies.

That's how we Barzini's played it in Capo I and that's why we were the greatest team ever assembled: Prole, CR, and myself and later Don, Alex, Pindar, Xiahou (all republicans though, but nobody's perfect), sure we lost, but it's a Mafia game and not the SCF, style is more important the W/L. :cool:

[DELETE_THIS]

Renata is going to be pissed for lynching her without her being able to defend herself.

[Reenk Roink]

Renata is going to be pissed for lynching her without her being able to defend herself.

True, but it doesn't matter TOO MUCH in this case. Even if Renata turned out protown, it would be a loss, but in this game it is mitigated by the fact that townies can gain powers. Plus Atpg would then be lynched sooner and not later, where it is more dangerous if any kind of scheme is cooking.

Or perhaps you are working with Renata? :wink:

[DELETE_THIS]

It was more a statement than anything else ;-).

[Reenk Roink]

Couple of things to think about:

First, the entire thing of TinCow and his team and the other team feeling that they are unable to kill Atpg has enough plausibility to be entertained for a round or even two, but another somewhat plausible scenario is that this entire scenario was cooked up and the two may be working more closely then they let on.

Second, given Nictel's two latest posts, another explanation for Atpg going after Nictel so much before that somewhat increases in plausibility is that he investigated him, but didn't want to reveal, so he tried to lynch him by making up a case. The case sucked and was entirely unconvincing, and this does explain the somewhat forced nature of it all.

[Renata]

I cannot believe ATPG is trying to get away with this again. This is worse than Zelda mafia (and completely incomparable to Capo III), because there his role was at least plausibly non-exclusive with a town victory. Here? Not so much. I wish I had time to post more.

vote: ATPG

My role is Travis Touchdown (IDFH Survivalist) and I got a power called Elemental Guard that protects against cold/heat-based attacks. I protected Winston Hughes last night.

[Renata]

And yeah, I'm a little bit pissed. See you on the flip side, whatever happens. Winston is damn right I'm not going away.

[Reenk Roink]

The thing I see is, your guilt is obviously not anywhere near Atpg's, who is almost certainly some type of non town role. So Atpg would definitely be more surefire in preventing another townie to be lynched.

With that being said, the claim on you is that you are Mafia, which is worse than a SK. Also, should you turn out to be Mafia, then a decent plan Atpg may be used for a bit before he is discarded.

Obviously, the three players at the center of this claim are TinCow who is confirmed Mafia, and Atpg and Beskar, who certainly have a case to having their pants down (especially Atpg but never lose suspicion of Beskar).

That being said, a grand conspiracy seems less likely than the gist of what is claimed to be the truth (aside from Atpg not being a total SK and rather just anti-Mafia which I don't buy and we don't have to buy).

Thus I can see the argument of killing you first to see how much more we can milk from the situation.

[woad&fangs]

unvote: Renata; Vote: ATPG
Hope this is still before the deadline.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

hmm we really need a votecount.

[pevergreen]

hmm we really need a votecount.

Working off ATPG's last tally

Renata: 8 (ATPG, Yaropolk, Diamondeye, Ironside, Frozen, Seon, Thefluffyone, landlubber)
ATPG: 5 (Nictel, Csargo, Winston, Renata, woad&fangs)

Glenn: 4 (Cecil, Jarema, Insanious, dcmort)
Beefy: 4 (Beefy, Renata, Romanic, Beskar,

Seon: 3 (pevergreen, DIY, Classical)

Jarema: 2 (ByzantineKnight, Link) Link did not unvote

Fluffy: 1 (Double A
landlubber: 1 (Glenn)
Csargo: 1 (Khazaar)
pevergreen: 1 (God Emperor)
Winston: 1 (johnhughthom)
Insanious: 1 (Skooma)

As far as I can tell, we have just under 2 hours until this phase ends

[thefluffyone93]

Unvote; Vote: ATPG
Again, whats the worst that could happen?

[Chaotix]

The phase is ending in approximately an hour and a half.

For exactness, I will make it 11:00 PM EST.

[pevergreen]

Just to annoy Chaotix:

Unvote, Vote: ATPG

That makes it 7-7?

Tie! Tie! :grin2:

Also, as I said in my last post - working with serial killer = bad memories.

[Cecil XIX]

Just to annoy Chaotix:

Unvote, Vote: ATPG

That makes it 7-7?

Tie! Tie! :grin2:

Also, as I said in my last post - working with serial killer = bad memories.

Although last time, the SK did kill off all the Mafia. Imagine if he had started earlier and we had had the time to deal with him afterwards?

unvote, vote: Renata

[Romanic]

I'll lynch a confirmed killer over a potential threat any day.

And the Town can control its destiny, we don't need to rely on an enemy, especially considering how good and manipulative ATPG is.

unvote; vote: ATPG

[pevergreen]

Although last time, the SK did kill off all the Mafia. Imagine if he had started earlier and we had had the time to deal with him afterwards?

unvote, vote: Renata

True, but thats one game.

I think I have the weight of numbers on my side. In chaotix's last game, I was a serial killer, and a dead person outed me to the town, breaking the rules by doing so. I managed to live for another day or two, pretending I would work with the town, but I was then killed at night. I did the same thing as ATPG, moved the lynch off me onto another person (though I knew the person I moved it onto was mafia, as I was told that when I attacked them) and played 'townie sk'. TinCow did the exact thing in Netherworld, formed his own mafia family and won.

[thefluffyone93]

We got 30 minutes left.
Is it still a tie?

[Romanic]

8 Renata (ATPG, Yaropolk, Diamondeye, Ironside, Frozen, Seon, landlubber, Cecil XIX)
7 ATPG (Nictel, Csargo, Winston, woad&fangs, Thefluffyone, pevergreen, Romanic)
3 Glenn (Jarema, Insanious, dcmort)
3 Beefy (Beefy, Renata, Beskar)
2 Seon (DIY, Classical)
2 Jarema (ByzantineKnight, Link)
1 Thefluffyone (Double A)
1 landlubber (Glenn)
1 Csargo (Khazaar)
1 pevergreen (God Emperor)
1 Winston Hughes (johnhughthom)
1 Insanious (Skooma)

I think that's the right tally. Renata did not unvote, so her vote should still be on Beefy.

[thefluffyone93]

Oh, to possibly be done in by technicalities.....what a way to go!
Wait...WHY DO I HAVE A VOTE?

[Romanic]

Oh, to possibly be done in by technicalities.....what a way to go!
Wait...WHY DO I HAVE A VOTE?

As pointed out by pever, Link also forgot to unvote when he voted for Renata, so the 2 oversights cancel each other. If we skip technicalities, Renata would still be leading by one vote.

[Reenk Roink]

Would like to see a tie here...

Anyway, if Renata is who she says she is, or just a townie who lied about her weak investigating power to save herself, you have the easiest lynch next round. If not, things get interesting... :beam:

[thefluffyone93]

Well, with 15 minutes left, either they fix their mistake, or someone else changes their vote.
But either way, someone is gonna be lynched.
Although I would disapprove if a person was lynched due to technicalities.
BUT HEY, I don't make the rules.

[Reenk Roink]

Well, with 15 minutes left, either they fix their mistake, or someone else changes their vote.
But either way, someone is gonna be lynched.
Although I would disapprove if a person was lynched due to technicalities.
BUT HEY, I don't make the rules.

Romanic said it would still be 8-7 without the technicalities. You seem rather concerned about the outcome of this lynch in Renata's favor... :inquisitive:

[thefluffyone93]

Well, would YOU want to be lynched because someone forgot to unvote you before voting for someone else?

[Reenk Roink]

Well, would YOU want to be lynched because someone forgot to unvote you before voting for someone else?

It's like 6th on my wishlist...

Point taken though, for Renata, it doesn't crack top 100. Still, for the third time, Link also wants to vote for Renata and his vote doesn't count because of the same technicality.

[Chaotix]

Round has ended. Now doing a full retally just to be sure of this.

Please stop posting momentarily for my sanity.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

This round was Juicy with a capital T. I'm so glad it turned out this way.

Renata is very very scummy. Defense doesn't sound genuine. Saying that now instead of waiting might make me look stupid but whatever. Either way we have a great situation for the town. Town is divided on whether to lynch pizza, but scum really really want to...how willing they are to show that is the question. They have a great excuse to. And if renata is scum it's even better, I highly doubt any of her buddies are on her wagon.

Romanic seems to be scum based on his posts and vote comments, haven't looked at the others yet.

hmm, fluffy and pever maybe. Woad seems ok. Don't remember csargo or winstons votes.

Fluffy's near deadline posts are scummy.

[Double A]

Yes, they are. I will be voting for him tomorrow.

And Fluffy, I don't care what side you're on, you NEVER ask "What's the worst that could happen?" in a mafia game. Or ever.

[Chaotix]

Renata has been lynched, indisputably.

Renata's and Link's vote changes have not been counted due to their lack of unvoting. It is worth noting that even if they had unvoted, Renata would still be the top lynch candidate.

Also, there was low activity this round, despite it being double-length. I am dissapoint. There are 8 players who haven't posted in 48 hours.

Expect the write-up in an hour.

Tally

Renata: 8 (ATPG, Yaropolk, Diamondeye, Ironside, Frozen, Seon, landlubber, Cecil)

ATPG: 7 (Nictel, Csargo, Winston, woad&fangs, Thefluffyone, pevergreen, Romanic)

Glenn: 3 (Jarema, Insanious, dcmort, )
Beefy: 3 (Beefy, Renata, Beskar,)
Jarema: 2 (ByzantineKnight, Link)
Seon: 2 (DiY, classical_hero)
landlubber: 1 (Glenn)
Csargo: 1 (Khazaar)
pevergreen: 1 (God Emperor)
Winston: 1 (johnhughthom)
Thefluffyone: 1 (Double A)
Insanious: 1 (Skooma)

NOT VOTING: 8 (Yet to count who)

EDIT: Feel free to send night actions. I want to end the next night phase a little early if possible so I don't have to do a write-up at 1 AM. I don't want to have to extend the night, either, but I could do that too.

[Romanic]

Romanic seems to be scum based on his posts and vote comments, haven't looked at the others yet.


Stop it Sasaki, you're off mark. :laugh4:

I'd be happy to discuss this with you, if you would point why I am scummy instead of merely saying so.

[Csargo]

Although last time, the SK did kill off all the Mafia. Imagine if he had started earlier and we had had the time to deal with him afterwards?

unvote, vote: Renata

:angry:

[Chaotix]

Day 3

The voting over the past day had been long and arduous. Finally it came to a closure, however, with a narrow lead on one candidate, and Admiral Dane returned to the assembly chamber to tally the votes.


https://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww93/Chaotix2732/A%20State%20of%20Corruption/AdmiralDane.jpg

“Today, the crew member who has been found guilty is Travis Touchdown, warrior of the IDFH. Please step up to make your defense.”

Travis looked surprised and displeased at this turn of events (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e73EDBGrHQg).


https://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww93/Chaotix2732/A%20State%20of%20Corruption/TravisTouchdown.jpg

“Man, this spaceship sucks! I thought they were supposed to be cool, but apparently these days you can’t get on a spaceship without having the engines blow out, the AI die, the quarters infiltrated by a load of wackos trying to kill everyone, and the quarantine bay filled with radioactive material.”

Admiral Dane looked sternly at Travis.

“We believe you to be responsible for these tragic incidents. How do you plead?”

Travis ignored Dane and continued on his rant.

“And now, the worst part of all, the crew of the Good Ship Lollipop has taken a vote and decided that it would be nice if I died! This is absolutely ridiculous! What happened to democracy? I thought we were fighting for freedom and stuff!”

“This HAS been a democratic process. We VOTED. Now, I must ask you again. How do you plead, Travis Touchdown?”

“Me? Plead? I’m not going to plead at all. In fact, you’re the ones who are going to be pleading! For your lives!”

The crew of the GFS Olympus stared at Travis.

“Because, I’m going to kill you first. You’re going to be pleading for your lives because I’m going to kill you all. Get it?”

The crew continued to stare at Travis, and was getting rather annoyed. Sensing that the timing was right, Travis whipped out his prototype lightsaber and powered it on. He dared anyone to challenge him.

Admiral Dane approached Travis, readying his fists. They were covered in heavy metal gloves, presumably powered with some sort of strength-boosting technology. His boots had the same metallic sheen. Travis swung his lightsaber, but the Admiral blocked the blow with his gloves. As the lightsaber was held in place, Dane swung his leg up and kicked Travis in the face.

The blow sent the young assassin flying into the air, and he landed hard on his back. His sunglasses were knocked off, revealing glowing blue eyes underneath.

“Hmph. It appears my identity has been compromised.”

Suddenly, Travis burst into a cloud of Phazon particles (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4gk0tldZr4), which quickly reformed to create a new humanoid figure in its place.


https://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww93/Chaotix2732/A%20State%20of%20Corruption/DarkSamus.jpg

Dark Samus readied her arm cannon for battle. She was silent, but an aura of dark energy and malice surrounded her; it was palpable even from several yards away. She began firing beams of pure Phazon at the Admiral to devastating effect. Dane was caught off guard and took the full force of the attack.

The Dark Hunter began to ready a Phazon Missile to finish Dane off, but she was interrupted by a massive, screeching roar. A massive, winged creature swooped into the room with incredible speed, grabbing Dark Samus and lifting her high into the air with it.


https://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww93/Chaotix2732/A%20State%20of%20Corruption/Meta-Ridley.jpg

Meta-Ridley bathed Dark Samus in flames, and consequently wound up firing on the crew of the Olympus below him as well. The crew quickly swarmed out of the assembly hall and ran for cover. Dane, taking one last look at Meta-Ridley and Dark Samus, left and sealed all the exits to the room (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEVQ6JxQFr4).

The giant space dragon was now squeezing the Dark Hunter’s armor suit and tearing at it with his razor-sharp claws. He held her close to his head and roared with rage into her face. Seizing the opportunity, Dark Samus fired the Phazon Missile she had been storing directly into Meta-Ridley’s mouth. The dragon screamed in pain and dropped the Dark Hunter.

Landing on her feet, Dark Samus readied her arm cannon and fired full-power scattershot Phazon blasts at Meta-Ridley, who struggled to avoid the attack. In retaliating, he began bombarding the Dark Hunter with fireballs until she no longer had the time to concentrate on firing at him. Dark Samus rolled up into Morph Ball form and tried to Boost away from the attacks.

This was only encouraging to Meta-Ridley. He swooped low snatched the whole Morph Ball with his jaws, crunching viciously, then proceeding to fling the ball with incredible force at the wall. Dark Samus smashed into it, returning to her normal form. The Dark Hunter tried to get up, but her energy had been severely depleted, and the Phazon Suit would no longer sustain her. She struggled to move, her body crackling with electricity and Phazon energy.

The massive, metallic space dragon landed victoriously. He opened his mouth, and then fired a beam of pure plasma at Dark Samus. The attack caused her to shatter into Phazon particles, and she let out one last gasp of pain as she was disintegrated.

Watching from a surveillance camera at a safe distance, Dane saw that Dark Samus had been destroyed, and ordered the GF and IDFH squadrons in to fight Meta-Ridley. When they arrived, however, a massive hole had been torn in the ceiling of the chamber, and the dragon was nowhere to be found.

---------------------------------------------------------

Living: 34/47
Askthepizzaguy
Beefy187
Beskar
ByzantineKnight
Captain Blackadder
Cecil XIX
classical_hero
Csargo
dcmort93
Death is Yonder
Diamondeye
Double A
Frozen in Ice
Glenn
God Emperor
Insanious
Ironside
Jarema
johnhughthom
Khazaar
landlubber
Link
Motep
Nictel
pevergreen
Rebel Jeb
Romanic
Seon
Skooma Addict
Thefluffyone93
Winston Hughes
woad&fangs
Yaropolk
Yaseikhaan


Dead: 12/47
a completely inoffensive name - Professor E. Gadd (IDFH Survivalist)
AntiKingWarmanCake88 - Diddy Kong (IDFH Survivalist)
robbiecon - Trace (GF Survivalist)
Choxorn - GF Mechanic (GF Survivalist)
Reenk Roink - Pit (IDFH Survivalist)
Greyblades - Aurora Unit 242 (GF Survivalist)
TinCow - Corrupted Cloud Strife (Phazon Corruption)
autolycus - GF Quarantine Officer (GF Survivalist)
Sasaki Kojiro - Rundas (GF Survivalist)
Secura - Commander Shepard (IDFH Survivalist)
YLC - GF PED Marine (GF Survivalist)
Nightbringer - Noxus (Hero)
Renata - Dark Samus (Phazon Corruption)

Reserves:
Greyblades
Choxorn

---------------------------------------------------

Begin Night 3!

I hope I can end it in 23 hours. But if I am missing night actions, I will make it another 48 hour phase. There's just no sense in me starting a write-up when it's like 1:00 AM my time tomorrow.

[Seon]

Well, whaddaya know...

[thefluffyone93]

http://blogs.citypages.com/blotter/brilliant.jpg
Well, call me a moron for changing my vote, but a wrietup as good as this deserves some applause!
:applause:

[Romanic]

Chaotix: Can you confirm if Motep has been replaced or if he's still in the game?

Also, by my count, there was only 4 players not voting yesterday (however, not sure if they posted): Captain Blackadder, Motep, Rebel Jeb and Yaseikhaan.

[Csargo]

Well, that was unexpected...

[Chaotix]

You're correct on the vote count, I was still thinking there were 39 living players left.

I've been trying to replace Motep, and Death is yonder needs a replacement as well, but I keep getting no response from my reserves. I will move on and ask Greyblades and Choxorn today. If any other dead townies would like to be replacements, they should PM me.

[pevergreen]

Well what do you know ATPG, I may have to change that rule about you know.

Remember, the one from before Christmas? :tongue:

ATPG can never vote for her or accuse her, but she can vote and accuse him.

:laugh4:

Seems like I need a new character thing now.

(Refers to out of game stuff)

[Reenk Roink]

So awesome! :2thumbsup: Spare Atpg for at least a round and evaluate what he does for a while. Investigate fluffy and Nictel. Still sucks that Team Samus has avoided any problems so far though.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

We should lock in and try and wipe out that scumteam. I highly doubt they were on the renata wagon. Good chance of being on pizza wagon, but might have just not been here. Could read back over the tincow lynch and renata's posts. Much to tired right now.

[Reenk Roink]

I wonder what kind of blow if any Dark Samus dying does to the team. It would suck if all they lost was a member and could still recruit, because then even if two went down more could easily be recruited. Then again recruiting people who can't kill just yet doesn't do much.

To all IDFH: Team Dark Samus is likely weakened now with two down and some probably exposed, just don't bother joining them anymore.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Ahem.

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I want to thank people for giving me a shot. I lose this game by default now, because I needed to personally destroy Dark Samus myself. This doesn't count for my victory condition, but I felt it was a longshot I'd be able to personally defeat Dark Samus anyway; truth be told, I'm not worth protecting at night and that's the only way I could do it myself.

This isn't for me, it's for you guys. :bow:

Defeat never felt so good.

Next up: the real Samus Shady.

[Reenk Roink]

Atpg, did you investigate Nictel at all? What did you do one round 1 if not? The cases on Nictel and fluffy have to be opened (reopened), but it needs more certainty.

[Choxorn]

I want to thank people for giving me a shot. I lose this game by default now, because I needed to personally destroy Dark Samus myself. This doesn't count for my victory condition, but I felt it was a longshot I'd be able to personally defeat Dark Samus anyway; truth be told, I'm not worth protecting at night and that's the only way I could do it myself.

This isn't for me, it's for you guys. :bow:

Defeat never felt so good.

Next up: the real Samus Shady.

You could probably at least get partial victory if you kill Samus.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Atpg, did you investigate Nictel at all? What did you do one round 1 if not? The cases on Nictel and fluffy have to be opened (reopened), but it needs more certainty.

No, I faithfully reported my investigation on woadsy; and last night I was indeed too busy attempting to kill Beskar to do anything.

And Reenk; :shakehands: I agree with you about Fluffy, absolutely. Nictel, I'm leaning towards again as well. I feel there is at least one more scum to be had in the wagon on me.

Tell me now; investigate or destroy Fluffy?

[Reenk Roink]

No, I faithfully reported my investigation on woadsy; and last night I was indeed too busy attempting to kill Beskar to do anything.

And Reenk; :shakehands: I agree with you about Fluffy, absolutely. Nictel, I'm leaning towards again as well. I feel there is at least one more scum to be had in the wagon on me.

Tell me now; investigate or destroy Fluffy?

I would investigate first just to be on the safe side. We have 34 players left so time isn't an issue. But you got the sweet role so surprise us. :beam:

fluffy's behavior at the end was really easy to read as worrying for Renata. But I also have a pretty decent gut feeling he's innocent. :dizzy2: Prerational and rational faculties are conflicting.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

His after post isn't what I'd expect from mafia.

Your investigate is really just tracker, right?

Maybe beskar can check romanic. If he's town it's better to have him alive.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I would investigate first just to be on the safe side. We have 34 players left so time isn't an issue. But you got the sweet role so surprise us. :beam:

I will make what I feel is the best move for the town. I think we're on the same page about what should be done; I'll pick from the available options that seem to be plausible.


Your investigate is really just tracker, right?

Thermal scan works exactly like Investigation I in my previous Star Wars game; it tells if target was active or not. I explained how it could be used to catch mafia in the previous game. It really is most effective in the early rounds.

It doesn't "track" or "watch", because those are different terms; a tracker would know who this person visited at night, a watcher would know who visited the target. This does neither; it tells activity, and not what kind of activity. It's basically a shot in the dark you're going to hit mafia or townie power role. I was prepared to fire here because Beskar could account for his investigator not being the target. The only other person I was wary of was his protector; I felt the odds were worth a lynch.


Maybe beskar can check romanic. If he's town it's better to have him alive.

I agree pulling the trigger on Romanic seems premature, but I do agree he needs to be looked at, in the top 5 or so.

I still wouldn't say openly who we are investigating tonight. I feel we should get a list of candidates and secretly pick from those. That way it's collaborative but still harder to guess what town is doing.

[Romanic]

Some replies to posts that I've haven't answered yet, from yesterday.




JHT was one of the early voters on TinCow, and kept his vote there until the end, so if you're looking for a reason not to vote him, that's it.
You're impressed by this?

I missed that question yesterday, Sasaki.

I am not 'impressed' by it, it's not the right word. I just think that a player deserve some credit for a well-timed vote against a scum, enough credit to be immune to petty cases like the one you had on him yesterday.


Point me to someone being attacked (and killed, since beskar is still alive) that has had a cover role, in this game.

Bah, you misinterpreted my posts twice in a row. Wondering if my explanations were that bad or if it's something else. Anyway ATPG confirmed in a later post, that cover role names will appear in the writeup, if attacked. I guess that I believe him on that point. Surely he was trying to save his life, and being caught in a lie here wouldn't help.


Hey I found a post that was gobbeled up in the Pizza/Sasaki post parade!

In Koopa Troop, there wasn't a single character who killed people when they were lynched. I think. There was a joker, but nothing else like that.

Wow AA, what's up with you in this game? I'm seeing some analysis, some good reasons to place a vote, and now you're answering my question on mafia having the ability to kill their voters in a previous CoV game.

I just don't recognize you. Anyway, thanks for answering.

So what was Motep saying about mafia having the ability to kill their voters if they were lynched? It happened in another CoV game maybe? I'll have to check the first game "Council of Villains" and the 2nd, "The Missing Link", unless someone else knows the answer?

I still think it's interesting to know if TinCow could kill one of his own, if they were voting for him, because they wouldn't be voting for him if that's the case, unless they're ballsy, maybe.

[Beskar]

Oh man, i wish I didn't collapse asleep last night, so I could have joined the Renata wagon. I already voiced my suspicion of her, but was waiting on a reply about her being my protector or not. (if not, I was going to vote)

Good going. :bow:

[Greyblades]

*Ahem*
I. Told. You. So.


...


...Well I did!

[Romanic]

<snip>
Anyway, Pizza full-revealed to me. He said that he has two abilities, a scan and a kill ability. His role is to kill both Samus and Dark Samus, if he succeeds, he can win with the town. If they are alive, he is classed as SK and needs to be killed (I assume this is for maifa /w town faction victories). I lied in thread about him being cleared, to have him hang around, as he assured me that he will say who he was killing in advance, and since we both share the same objective in killing Samus and Dark Samus mafias, I saw no reason for us not to give him some space to do his work, afterall, I could just post in thread with "Lynch him" if required.
<snip>


For the record Beskar, I don't like your play. Many wrong conclusions can be made about Pizza being falsely confirmed townie, and about you being caught lying. I think that you didn't have to lie, that you didn't have to spread false information in order to protect someone who's not Town aligned. Working with him, fine, maybe, if you trust him, if the plan is good, if we get something out of it, but you shouldn't be lying to keep him alive.

It just doesn't help. You're the top Townie in my book, I'm very inclined to believe what you say.... well, I was. Now you're forcing me to second guess, and I'll have to wonder if you aren't trying to pull one of your moves. *sigh*

[God Emperor]

Sorry guys, I have been down with a fever which escalated a few days ago.. That is the reason why I have been virtually gone from the game.. But doing better now, and thus I should be able to kick up activity tomorrow:)

[Romanic]

I have Thermal Vision. Now, coordinating with others, I can still find mafia with such a power, but it takes a little effort. If I scan someone and they're active, I can find out what they were doing, and ask them to go inactive.


So that I understand correctly, Thermal Vision tells you if your target is doing something? That's it, or is there more to it?

[Beskar]

For the record Beskar, I don't like your play. Many wrong conclusions can be made about Pizza being falsely confirmed townie, and about you being caught lying. I think that you didn't have to lie, that you didn't have to spread false information in order to protect someone who's not Town aligned. Working with him, fine, maybe, if you trust him, if the plan is good, if we get something out of it, but you shouldn't be lying to keep him alive.

It just doesn't help. You're the top Townie in my book, I'm very inclined to believe what you say.... well, I was. Now you're forcing me to second guess, and I'll have to wonder if you aren't trying to pull one of your moves. *sigh*


Well, my moves resulted us in getting Dark Samus. By me confronting Pizza privately, and covering his back, he fully revealed to me and felt we could work together. This resulted in us collaborating and getting Renata on the cards when Seon revealed his investigation result.

This move made TinCow come out to defend Renata and attack ATPG. This was the clincher which made Renata suspect number 1, and got her lynched. Thus with us having the fabulous write-up today.

You might disagree with my methods, but you are definitely not disagreeing with my results. :beam:


Edit: I was never caught lying, I confessed to lying, and in hindsight, I made the right choose, because it was my lying which got TinCow to come out the woodwork.

[Romanic]

What you're assuming indicates that the attacker will learn the connection between player name and real (not cover) role. Have you considered that?

Yeah, I did. It worked like that in every games that I recall, when someone survived a night attack. If a player attack someone and fails, it acts like an investigation result.

Like I said, I can't remember a game where it worked differently.

Zelda (on TWC): Diana was attacked, his attacked knew her identity. Same thing when the neutrals attacked ATPG.

Yeah, I'm sure there's more examples of this, I just can't recall at the moment. Anyways, this possibility seemed the obvious way it should work again in this game, but it's apparently not the case if we believe ATPG.