[Council of Villains] A State of Corruption [Concluded]

[pevergreen]

Yeah, I'm sure there's more examples of this, I just can't recall at the moment. Anyways, this possibility seemed the obvious way it should work again in this game, but it's apparently not the case if we believe ATPG.

Worked like that in Koopa Troop. I attacked khaan, got told he was yoshi. He showed as yoshi in the writeup though, and I had special interaction possible with that team so its probably useless...

[Romanic]

Well, my moves resulted us in getting Dark Samus. By me confronting Pizza privately, and covering his back, he fully revealed to me and felt we could work together. This resulted in us collaborating and getting Renata on the cards when Seon revealed his investigation result.

This move made TinCow come out to defend Renata and attack ATPG. This was the clincher which made Renata suspect number 1, and got her lynched. Thus with us having the fabulous write-up today.

You might disagree with my methods, but you are definitely not disagreeing with my results. :beam:

Not sure which part lying about Pizza being Town played in all of this, not sure if you could have done without it, but yeah, I like the result even if I don't agree with how you achieved it.

Edit to your edit:


Edit: I was never caught lying, I confessed to lying, and in hindsight, I made the right choose, because it was my lying which got TinCow to come out the woodwork.

:laugh4: That's so you.

You were caught lying, TinCow revealed ATPG's role before you admitted, and Pizza also confirmed it before. That's being caught lying to me. Either way, semantics.

[Secura]

Is there a finer thing then waking up to MSN beeping away with "LOL, Dark Samus has been pwnd, you have been avenged!"? I'd rather have Ryan Reynolds providing the wakeup call, but you can't have everything. :<

Congratulations town, hopefully you'll leave Pizza around a little longer; not just for the use he'll be, but also the sheer entertainment value!

I also hope Renata will hang around and play the dastardly deceased mafia card alongside TinCow. :P


:laugh4: That's so you.

More than you'll ever know... xD

[Askthepizzaguy]

I need someone with "Scan Visor" to contact Beskar immediately. Someone else claimed to have such a power and I am worried that their description of the ability more closely matches X-ray visor, the same power that was used to take down Tincow.

If so, then the person is lying about having Scan Visor, and is thus mafia.

Please describe in detail to Beskar what it does, exactly.

Was it posted somewhere in-thread already? Please direct me to such a post, instead, if preferable.

[DELETE_THIS]

Oh how nice, I was wrong.
For the scanners out there: I'll be scanning someone tonight.

[Romanic]

Is there a finer thing then waking up to MSN beeping away with "LOL, Dark Samus has been pwnd, you have been avenged!"? I'd rather have Ryan Reynolds providing the wakeup call, but you can't have everything. :<

Congratulations town, hopefully you'll leave Pizza around a little longer; not just for the use he'll be, but also the sheer entertainment value!


There's no denying that Pizza did good yesterday, but not lynching him is delaying the inevitable. Pizza himself said that he cannot win with us, so we will have to lynch him eventually and as the days go by, it may become harder to lynch him if the priority shift to something more important. He's playing to win (he might deny it though) but he would jump on an opportunity to backstab us, if such a thing was possible. Maybe not, with so many of us left, but we can't wait too long.

I'm willing to delay his lynch, as long as we have good cases, and as long as he's not acting suspiciouly, but it will have to happen. Any day we don't have a good lynch candidate will be a good day to lynch Pizza.

[Askthepizzaguy]

This is the code I will use to send a message to you in the thread, if I feel the need to do so. Your messages will be indicated as they will be addressed to Agent Ninjapants. I will speak plainly in the thread, but all names will be replaced by numbers. The numbers were generated by running the entire participant list (including replacements) through random.org. This is the list:


1. Winston Hughes
2. classical_hero
3. Reenk Roink
4. autolycus
5. Beskar
6. YLC
7. Death is Yonder
8. Yaseikhaan
9. Jarema
10. Beefy187
11. Link
12. pevergreen
13. Double A
14. Khazaar
15. a completely inoffensive name
16. Motep
17. Frozen in Ice
18. Ironside
19. Kagemusha
20. Glenn
21. AntiKingWarmanCake88
22. dcmort93
23. Yaropolk
24. woad&fangs
25. Csargo
26. Captain Blackadder
27. Cecil XIX
28. Rebel Jeb
29. Choxorn
30. God Emperor
31. robbiecon
32. Nictel
33. TinCow
34. Seon
35. Insanious
36. ByzantineKnight
37. Askthepizzaguy
38. landlubber
39. Renata
40. Sasaki Kojiro
41. Secura
42. Romanic
43. Nightbringer
44. Thefluffyone93
45. Skooma Addict
46. Diamondeye
47. Raskolnikov
48. johnhughthom
49. Greyblades

This list is unique to you. All others receiving similar codes will have different random.org lists, so they will not be able to understand the information I am giving you, and vice versa. If you wish to communicate with me, end a post with a smilie. In that post, any name you list in the first line should be a GF-aligned person or someone else you think we need to kill. If you want to give more information than that, I will pay very close attention to what you write in line two. Figure out a way to put that information in there, and I will do my best to interpret your meaning. Remember, I will only look for encoded information from you in a post that ends with a smilie. Do not end a post with a smilie if you do not wish to communicate with me.

As you claim to not have any active abilities, do not expect to receive much information from me as it would generally be pointless. If you gain the ability to vig kill, it will be important for you to communicate that to me. As such, use this exact phrase in line ONE of a coded post to indicate that you can now vig kill: "Chaotix, this game is awesome." Anything else can go in line one along with it, but make sure you use that exact phrase.


Possibility this is forged to get me to trust mister Ninjapants. However, I'm well aware of mister Ninja and how likely he is to be scum, and passed on his identity to others.

More and more townies are breaking away from Tincow's grip. I would like more people to renounce the Phazon team and contact me with your codes, please. Especially if you were one of Tincow's ACTIVE agents.

Knowing that you were greatly removes you from suspicion as we can account for your behavior and that you are unlikely to be Samus/mafia.

Please contact me immediately with further codes.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Oh how nice, I was wrong.
For the scanners out there: I'll be scanning someone tonight.

All I can really do is facepalm.

I truly hope you're not a scanner, and that this was a bad, bad, bad desperate move by a mafioso to explain why you'll be active tonight, along with like 10 other people.


There's no denying that Pizza did good yesterday, but not lynching him is delaying the inevitable. Pizza himself said that he cannot win with us, so we will have to lynch him eventually and as the days go by, it may become harder to lynch him if the priority shift to something more important. He's playing to win (he might deny it though) but he would jump on an opportunity to backstab us, if such a thing was possible. Maybe not, with so many of us left, but we can't wait too long.

I'm willing to delay his lynch, as long as we have good cases, and as long as he's not acting suspiciouly, but it will have to happen. Any day we don't have a good lynch candidate will be a good day to lynch Pizza.

You do realize that it would technically be "front" stabbing, in this case?

I mean.... if a dude walks up to your house carrying a knife and a sign that says "I am a serial killer" and you open the door for them, and they say "Hi, I am a serial killer" and you invite them in for buttered scones and tea, and you enjoy a nice friendly chat, and they say "You know, if the mafia doesn't show up, I kind of have to kill you" and you say "Sure thing!" and they say "It's getting late, and no mafia. Can I kill you now?" and you say "Sure, why not?" then they stab you, I mean...

"Back stabbing"? REALLY?

Honestly. I've also killed zero townies so far, and helped off one of the main villains. I feel like Shrek over here. I roar angrily and people go "yay" instead of running away.

Some unspeakable horror I turned out to be.

[Renata]

@ Secura -- actually I believe I will cease all hostilities for a while. The game will be too short if I turn on my super-townie-foo to get Samus. Go Samus go. Along the same lines, ATPG also has the complete blessing of the Dark Samus squad. Kill 'em all, Ridley. (And my congratulations for that matter. We may be the unluckiest mafia team in the history of ever, but he still drew the right conclusions. (Are we even, now?))

[Romanic]

Honestly. I've also killed zero townies so far, and helped off one of the main villains. I feel like Shrek over here. I roar angrily and people go "yay" instead of running away.

Some unspeakable horror I turned out to be.
( I skipped the backstabbing semantics. :smug2: )

Yes, you've killed no townie, yes you helped us so far but by your own admission you cannot win with us. You are an enemy, sucks to be in your shoes. Tell me of a way you can win with the Town and I'll consider it.

Btw, are you making a habit of skipping my posts, or not reading everything? :laugh4:

Again,


So that I understand correctly, Thermal Vision tells you if your target is doing something? That's it, or is there more to it?

[Renata]

Oh, the IDFH squad also has our blessing to do whatever you need to do to keep yourselves among the ranks of the living.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Yes, you've killed no townie, yes you helped us so far but by your own admission you cannot win with us. You are an enemy, sucks to be in your shoes. Tell me of a way you can win with the Town and I'll consider it.

Sadly, I could, but no one would believe me.

Chaotix told me, after the lynch of Dark Samus, that he would count such a lynch as part of a victory condition so long as I was voting for the correct candidate, because he neglected to discuss in my role PM what counts as a Ridley kill or not, so he clarified. I assumed it was murder only; frankly this seems a bit easy but I don't have long for this dimension so who am I to complain.

I have not failed my primary objective yet. I told Beskar already when I found out, but I honestly don't think anyone would believe me, and I honestly don't see why they would. So here's the deal: I kill Samus or lynch Samus, I will then have achieved my primary objective. Then, lynch me if you wanna. I don't need to prove a darn thing to anyone, as I've already met my goal in such a circumstance. Doesn't matter if you believe me or not, as I'll be nice and dead so you won't have to worry about it. And likely Samus kills me before then anyway, so this is all entirely moot unless really bizarre scenario happens and I survive several more rounds.


Btw, are you making a habit of skipping my posts, or not reading everything? :laugh4:

Again,

I left nothing out; I already described, and in detail, publicly, what the ability does. I don't see what is ambiguous about it. There's nothing more to it than what I already stated.





@ Renata-

Hi Renata, sorry about that. I realize just how ugh that must have been.

I finally got you fair and square, after all these years and all these games, I finally got you.

The bloodlust has been purged from my system.

:bow: Hugs, buddy.

[autolycus]

Dear Meta-Ridley and Phazon-Corrupted (and everyone else too)
Based on today and stuff I can't discuss since I'm dead, I'm fairly certain Frozen in Ice is scum and specifically Samus scum. Might I suggest you kill him?
Thanks,
Mr. Dead Quarantine Officer.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Dear Meta-Ridley and Phazon-Corrupted (and everyone else too)
Based on today and stuff I can't discuss since I'm dead, I'm fairly certain Frozen in Ice is scum and specifically Samus scum. Might I suggest you kill him?
Thanks,
Mr. Dead Quarantine Officer.

Sorry, the Phazon aren't in right now. If you'd like to leave a message with the smoking carcass, please do so after the roar.


http://forums.civfanatics.com/images/smilies/aargh4.gif


This is Ridley. I got my killin' teeth in, waiting on permission from my special Valentine to go munch and crunch. Will report back when the bird is in the oven.

[Beskar]

Does this mean I can ride on your back? Meta-ridley?

[Removed - Search Cthulhu and Cartman Song on youtube]


Meta-Ridley Meta-Ridley
Meta-Ridley Meta-Ridley
The evil hate-filled Meta-Ridley
From a dimension far away
Flying through gates of madness
And into your heart
Turning dreams into nightmares
Destroying all he sees
Now begins a new adventure for me
You and the dark one Meta-Ridley
Sharing adventures and smiles
It’s a magical bond two pals can share
Soon the whole world will be made aware
Of you and the death lord Meta-Ridley
Making the world a better place
Together you will have so much fun
Sending all of the stupid fiends to oblivion!
You and the dark one Meta-Ridley.

[TinCow]

Wow, this has been a ridiculously embarrassing game. Every time we could have gotten unlucky, we did. Every time we could have made a bad decision, we did. I'm going to make official something I've been feeling for a long time now: I am cursed in mafia.

To all Agents: Not that I likely need to tell you this, but we're pwned. Fend for yourselves and see to your own personal victories. Don't worry about anyone actually breaking your personal codes and reading your messages, there's too much text in this thread for that to ever happen, regardless of how much time ATPG has. However, don't bother posting any more as I won't be looking for them and I will not be giving out further night orders. I sincerely apologize for how badly this turned out; no one had higher hopes for this situation than me. One final word of advice, don't let ATPG live. True, I revealed him to try and save Renata from an otherwise guaranteed lynch, but that doesn't change who he is. If you forget that, he will survive until the end of the game and kill you all. Good luck!

[Askthepizzaguy]

Wow, this has been a ridiculously embarrassing game. Every time we could have gotten unlucky, we did. Every time we could have made a bad decision, we did. I'm going to make official something I've been feeling for a long time now: I am cursed in mafia.

To all Agents: Not that I likely need to tell you this, but we're pwned. Fend for yourselves and see to your own personal victories. Don't worry about anyone actually breaking your personal codes and reading your messages, there's too much text in this thread for that to ever happen, regardless of how much time ATPG has. I sincerely apologize for how badly this turned out; no one had higher hopes for this situation than me. One final word of advice, don't let ATPG live. True, I revealed him to try and save Renata from an otherwise guaranteed lynch, but that doesn't change who he is. If you forget that, he will survive until the end of the game and kill you all. Good luck!

True, if you are mafia and you let me live, I'm gonna kills ya.

And btw Tincow, the only time anyone would have posted any such codes was for one whole day. It's not hard for me to comb through it.

Don't you remember how insane I am when it comes to massive amounts of reading and typing and analysis? Not to mention the following fact: As the game goes on, there will be fewer suspects alive. I will have fewer posts to consider.

Edits are also public knowledge. Face it, the code system was a wise idea, but it's been countered effectively.

[TinCow]

Also TinCow, I'm very upset at you about this:

Next time, I hope you can give me more credit than being cheap like that. :shame:

[Beskar]

True, I revealed him to try and save Renata from an otherwise guaranteed lynch, but that doesn't change who he is. If you forget that, he will survive until the end of the game and kill you all. Good luck!

That is incorrect. Your reveal of Pizza guaranteed her lynch, before that, she wasn't most likely getting lynched at all. :tongue:

[Askthepizzaguy]

That is incorrect. Your reveal of Pizza guaranteed her lynch, before that, she wasn't most likely getting lynched at all. :tongue:

No need to rub it in.

I don't think they played a bad game; one person got scanned early, the other got pressured in private and there was a tiny flinch, coupled with another lucky scan and a big hunch.

Nothing obviously horrendous happened.

[Double A]

I wonder what kind of blow if any Dark Samus dying does to the team. It would suck if all they lost was a member and could still recruit, because then even if two went down more could easily be recruited. Then again recruiting people who can't kill just yet doesn't do much.

To all IDFH: Team Dark Samus is likely weakened now with two down and some probably exposed, just don't bother joining them anymore.

I have a feeling Samus and Dark Samus are a bit more important than your average mafioso :tongue:


Wow AA, what's up with you in this game? I'm seeing some analysis, some good reasons to place a vote, and now you're answering my question on mafia having the ability to kill their voters in a previous CoV game.

I just don't recognize you. Anyway, thanks for answering.

Could have something to do with me being Bowser in a game about Bowser, but you know, it might just have been the write-ups.

[Jarema]

I think that we can let ATPG live for now and let him do dirty work for us...
If there is a lot of scanners (I suppose they would be confirmed after next night or two) then ATPG should do some killing.
The thing that worries me is that apparently only Beskar has some amount of control over ATPG doings. And I am not 100% sure, if Beskar's intentions are clear. At this moment, he is the one that we should be affraid of.
Of course, decision about ATPG dead must be made at some point and it must not be too long from now; he can still be lying about details of his role, we must be prepared for situation in which he survives a lynch

[Askthepizzaguy]

I think that we can let ATPG live for now and let him do dirty work for us...
If there is a lot of scanners (I suppose they would be confirmed after next night or two) then ATPG should do some killing.
The thing that worries me is that apparently only Beskar has some amount of control over ATPG doings. And I am not 100% sure, if Beskar's intentions are clear. At this moment, he is the one that we should be affraid of.
Of course, decision about ATPG dead must be made at some point and it must not be too long from now; he can still be lying about details of his role, we must be prepared for situation in which he survives a lynch

I offered to put my kills up for the vote. "Be a second lynch".

You can overrule Beskar if there's enough of you and you've got a convincing reason. I still think Beskar's doing an excellent job.

TBH all this focus on what to do with me is a little disappointing. Think about who Samus is first. Help me kill it.

[Romanic]

Sadly, I could, but no one would believe me.

Chaotix told me, after the lynch of Dark Samus, that he would count such a lynch as part of a victory condition so long as I was voting for the correct candidate, because he neglected to discuss in my role PM what counts as a Ridley kill or not, so he clarified. I assumed it was murder only; frankly this seems a bit easy but I don't have long for this dimension so who am I to complain.

I have not failed my primary objective yet. I told Beskar already when I found out, but I honestly don't think anyone would believe me, and I honestly don't see why they would. So here's the deal: I kill Samus or lynch Samus, I will then have achieved my primary objective. Then, lynch me if you wanna. I don't need to prove a darn thing to anyone, as I've already met my goal in such a circumstance. Doesn't matter if you believe me or not, as I'll be nice and dead so you won't have to worry about it. And likely Samus kills me before then anyway, so this is all entirely moot unless really bizarre scenario happens and I survive several more rounds.


Why do I regret asking about that? :laugh4:

I won't bother validating this with Beskar, no doubt he'll say "sure, Pizza told me!", whether that's true or a way to keep you alive. It does look too easy an answer, but I'm tempted to believe you, if only because you found Dark Samus yesterday.


I left nothing out; I already described, and in detail, publicly, what the ability does. I don't see what is ambiguous about it. There's nothing more to it than what I already stated.


Okay, I wanted to make sure before going to my next point.

I'm having trouble believing you when you said that's all the powers you have. From my point of view the ability to kill someone is awesome to achieve your goal while Thermal Vision is a big MEH.

I understand how Thermal Vision can help you find the 2 Samus, after all it's likely that they will be active every night, so anyone positively acting at night could be one of them but...

Why would you consider using this ability when you can kill someone and see immediately if he was one of your targets? It's not like you're supposed to care about your target, you're neutral, without a friend. Plus, with people gaining new powers, it's likely that this ability will become useless over time.

Bottom line, Thermal Vision seems incredibly pointless, unless I'm missing something.

Conclusion: You probably didn't use it on N1, or you're not telling the whole story about this power, or you have 3+ powers.

[Romanic]

Dear Meta-Ridley and Phazon-Corrupted (and everyone else too)
Based on today and stuff I can't discuss since I'm dead, I'm fairly certain Frozen in Ice is scum and specifically Samus scum. Might I suggest you kill him?
Thanks,
Mr. Dead Quarantine Officer.

Oh boy, would I like to hear how you come to that conclusion!

I'll ring The Ridley Pizzaman to see if he's free for the job.

*ring* *ring*

(....)

[Askthepizzaguy]

Okay, I wanted to make sure before going to my next point.

I'm having trouble believing you when you said that's all the powers you have. From my point of view the ability to kill someone is awesome to achieve your goal while Thermal Vision is a big MEH.

Talk to the game designer. I just work here.


I understand how Thermal Vision can help you find the 2 Samus, after all it's likely that they will be active every night, so anyone positively acting at night could be one of them but...

But?


Why would you consider using this ability when you can kill someone and see immediately if he was one of your targets? It's not like you're supposed to care about your target, you're neutral, without a friend. Plus, with people gaining new powers, it's likely that this ability will become useless over time.

Oh but Romanic, what better way to blend in with the pro-town roles, which would explain my awesome night defenses, than to have a scanning power?

Come on, I gave Kagemusha, the Dark Lord of the Sith, the ability to defend other Jedi at night with a move that risks his life (even though he is still kinda built like a tank). Why give the Dark Lord that? To look really, really...... REALLY townie. Because I'm evil like that.

And you said it yourself, it can help me locate the 2 Samus. Already found one, though it wasn't MY thermal scan that found her. Minor technicality.


Bottom line, Thermal Vision seems incredibly pointless, unless I'm missing something.

Conclusion: You probably didn't use it on N1, or you're not telling the whole story about this power, or you have 3+ powers.

Ask Seon, who also claims to have Thermal scan. :shrug:

I get why you're not believing the face value, but there's nothing up my sleeve here.

I am a very atypical serial killer role. I never would have revealed to Beskar what I was if I thought I absolutely had to kill him and everyone else in the game. And if I did, yes, probably wouldn't have bothered scanning, except for WIFOM purposes or to give myself an alibi.

I can indeed win with the town, as nuts as that sounds. But yeah you'll have to wait until the end of the game and just sit there jaw agape when you see I was telling the truth about all this.

Might I suggest that Chaotix could have been inspired by the Dark Jedi in my game when coming up with such a role? Floating a theory. Kill everyone to win, or wipe out the mafia? Similar win conditions here.

[Greyblades]

Ok I just had a scary thought, its already established that pizza is ridley and his objective obviously is to kill samus, well what then? If we help him kill samus I have a bad feeling we wont have a chance to lynch him afterwards.

Think about it, do you realy think that ridley gives a toss about the mooks that make up the town? He's a space dragon he could take out the ship easily and from what I know about metroid, which is pretty little admittedly, samus is the only person to successfully beat him. Well we allready killed off one samus (technically), somehow I dont think ridley is going to sit on his haunches after both are dead.

Call me paranoid, I just have a bad feeling that if samus dies before ridley the game will end with ridley chowing down on the now helpless town.

[Jarema]

TBH all this focus on what to do with me is a little disappointing. Think about who Samus is first. Help me kill it.

Yes, I bet you will like us to concentrate only on that :)

EDIT: I feel that Greyblades is right

[Romanic]

@ATPG :

Okay, point granted. Thermal Vision is a good way to appear Town, being crappy and all, but it doesn't explain why you chose to use it instead of killing someone on Night 1. Perhaps you can run me through the thoughts you had?

---

Seon claimed having Thermal Vision?! Interesting. I thought that he claimed a scanning power, without precising which one. At least, that's what post #882 says:


May I say something?

Killing me in a lynch is as a bad idea as killing a night investigator in a lynch.

Missed it if he talked about it in another post. Searched the thread briefly, can't find it either. Please explain.

[Askthepizzaguy]

@ATPG :

Okay, point granted. Thermal Vision is a good way to appear Town, being crappy and all, but it doesn't explain why you chose to use it instead of killing someone on Night 1. Perhaps you can run me through the thoughts you had?


Here's what I sent Chaotix:


RIDLEY CRUSH NIGHTBRINGER

RIDLEY BRING PAIN TO BRINGER OF NIGHT

RIDLEY BRINGER OF DEATH

DIE NIGHTBRINGER DIE



On another note, may I ask, can I use Fire Strike and thermal visor at the same time? Or is it an either/or situation?

If I may use them at the same time, then I use thermal visor on Double A. If not, then just kill Nightbringer.

If I get investigated night one, whatevs. Should I really expect anything less?

Response was, I can only use one. Then I asked what the point of Thermal Visor was, and he replied something something something not going to get into it here, something something.


Why would I ever use Thermal Visor? I'm a serial killer with a mission to kill two people.

And a response, and then:


The problem is, if I find such players, I will then have to wait until the next night to finish them. In the meantime, I am worrying about being lynched, blocked, investigated, etc etc. I've had a string of good fortune and I'm about due for that to end. If I manage to use a night action on the correct person, I want it to be death.

But very well....

Switch up my actions. Instead of kill nightbringer, perform a thermal scanning action on woad&fangs.

That way I can claim vigilante later. I think I satisfied my bloodlust in the Zelda game.

So that's why. I felt a vigilante claim could buy me time. No, apparently claiming SK is better than claiming doctor with you people. :brood:

(:laugh4: sorry, I just felt the need to point out that I love you guys, but there is absolutely no way I or anyone else could possibly plan for your reactions.)


Seon claimed having Thermal Vision?! Interesting. I thought that he claimed a scanning power, without precising which one. At least, that's what post #882 says:

Missed it if he talked about it in another post. Searched the thread briefly, can't find it either. Please explain.

I am almost dead certain he posted it somewhere. Getting to be 8AM my time though, and mind is slowly disintegrating.

Question: If I answer another dozen questions, will you guys still lynch me anyway, without letting me try to kill the tomboy? If so, I politely excuse myself to catch a dirt nap.

[Renata]

Pizza scanned TinCow, I think, and has since been passing off his full scan power as something lesser. (He got a twinge of suspicion on Tincow that day; no one else did.) That's what I think. But if it wasn't Pizza, it was Samus, whether Samus is Beskar or someone else, because Samus has motive to check out someone like TinCow for recruitment potential on night one -- same reason TinCow checked out Sasaki. No one else but a metagaming dink investigates him that early.

[TinCow]

That is incorrect. Your reveal of Pizza guaranteed her lynch, before that, she wasn't most likely getting lynched at all. :tongue:

You misunderstand my statement. No, she wasn't going to be lynched today, but she was almost certainly going to be lynched tomorrow. On a review of the situation, it was decided that the odds of getting her out of the situation were lower tomorrow than they were today. While she would have gotten one more night of killing tonight, that wouldn't have made any difference to the result of the game. So, we believed our best move was to simply try make the move earlier when it had better odds of saving her.

[Renata]

That is incorrect. Your reveal of Pizza guaranteed her lynch, before that, she wasn't most likely getting lynched at all. :tongue:

Meh. I knew it was a risk, but AtPG was doing his magic tricks and I'd just gotten about four new votes one right after the other. I was also pinned by stuff I can't refer to that made my lynch an inevitability sooner or later and probably sooner, so going for the big temporary distraction became more attractive. Still, if I could have been around to argue my case I don't think we'd have had to do it that way, but you saw how cruddy my reveal was. I had like two minutes here and ten minutes there to discuss the situation, come up with a plan, and execute it. Normal tactics just weren't an option. I think TinCow did the right thing despite that it failed. (Have I mentioned how much I hate having RL issues when I'm mafia?)

[Askthepizzaguy]

You misunderstand my statement. No, she wasn't going to be lynched today, but she was almost certainly going to be lynched tomorrow. On a review of the situation, it was decided that the odds of getting her out of the situation were lower tomorrow than they were today. While she would have gotten one more night of killing tonight, that wouldn't have made any difference to the result of the game. So, we believed our best move was to simply try make the move earlier when it had better odds of saving her.

You guys nearly got me, too. I was reading the thread as I came home from work and saw the wagon reverse and I felt a tightness in my stomach and I had a pouty face on.

The last hour or so was amazing. You had people standing around going "is it a tie? should we make it a tie? Who's vote counted?" and here I'm expecting mafia to swoop in and kick my metal butt, and that's all she wrote.

That probably was the most exciting round of mafia I've ever played in. I can die happy now, even if it means I lose.



I'm going to venture an opinion that the Samus team was able to detect Renata somehow, and blackmail her. I don't know who else would have unused leverage on her in this situation besides me, and it wasn't me.

[Csargo]

Call me paranoid, I just have a bad feeling that if samus dies before ridley the game will end with ridley chowing down on the now helpless town.

Yeah, that's what I'm afraid of as well.

[classical_hero]

That was one crazy end of the day. I only just got to reading it after work and it was quite exciting to read. This is why is sucks being on the other side of the world, since I miss all the action when it happens. :(

[TinCow]

The last hour or so was amazing. You had people standing around going "is it a tie? should we make it a tie? Who's vote counted?" and here I'm expecting mafia to swoop in and kick my metal butt, and that's all she wrote.

There was nothing we could do about it. A last minute save like that would have ended in the same result we were trying to avoid in the first place. We were playing for a runaway bandwagon on you, not a close tie like that. The only potential salvation at that point was to get some of the IDFH players voting how we wanted, but I was never able to figure out a method of informing them who to vote for without both exposing Renata and the Agents. Some situations just can't be solved with trickery, no matter how hard you work at it. And trust me, I worked at it... you have no idea how mentally debilitating it was to create that entire system only for it to become pointless after a single night. I had to do all that on-the-fly in the space of about 6 hours, while also getting as much information as I could out of people by PMs. I was exhilarated that it actually worked, which makes the whole pointlessness of it that much more deflating.

[Renata]

*huggles my corrupted cloud strife*

Maybe next time, eh, TinCow?

[TinCow]

Maybe next time, eh, TinCow?

Don't hold your breath. If current trends hold, next time I'm on a scum team with other living players will be June 2012.

[Askthepizzaguy]

There was nothing we could do about it. A last minute save like that would have ended in the same result we were trying to avoid in the first place. We were playing for a runaway bandwagon on you, not a close tie like that. The only potential salvation at that point was to get some of the IDFH players voting how we wanted, but I was never able to figure out a method of informing them who to vote for without both exposing Renata and the Agents. Some situations just can't be solved with trickery, no matter how hard you work at it. And trust me, I worked at it... you have no idea how mentally debilitating it was to create that entire system only for it to become pointless after a single night. I had to do all that on-the-fly in the space of about 6 hours, while also getting as much information as I could out of people by PMs. I was exhilarated that it actually worked, which makes the whole pointlessness of it that much more deflating.

Do you realize I had already gone into townie mode by the third day, and I was depressed by how well you pulled off your own death?

I thought that was the best exit ever. Even with potential infiltration possibilities, which, not kidding myself, were probably not all that realistic, I still felt you could have had half the town on your side and you were knocking out GF recruitables left and right. I felt for sure you'd have a dozen recruits lined up.

I still didn't know for sure how I could manipulate you into giving up Dark Samus; I was hoping just getting the murders off of me would be enough to keep me around long enough to whack the both of you, but seriously, I told a bunch of people that the wind was knocked out of my sails and that Dark Samus team was going to win.

I gotta find out what happened which ruined your chances before myself and the others got to pressuring Renata. I am already anxious for the postgame.

If you want to hear a story about pointless brilliance, I'll tell you about the time I had dual quicktopics on a different forum; one for our actual discussion, and the other was our "mason" quicktopic. It was days and days of pure, steaming horse manure that matched our cover stories and fit everything that was happening as it happened, and my teammates were going along with it, until the game host ruled it was too OOC to be used and we got pwned by detectives FAST.

I felt like I had witnessed the birth of kittens, only to see them get flattened by a cement mixer. I feel ya; your moves were breathtaking and I was jealous of how you turned a bad situation around.

[Renata]

Things can change. I went eight or nine months without getting any mafia roles at all, but currently I'm almost as bad as Atheotes' reputation.

Edit: @TinCow, obviously.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

That is incorrect. Your reveal of Pizza guaranteed her lynch, before that, she wasn't most likely getting lynched at all. :tongue:

I find this very doubtful, she was not acting her usual self this game and the reveal of pizza mainly convinced pizza I think, since revealing pizza was always the right move for mafia.

[Renata]

Yep, I'm always not my usual self when I'm mafia. Count on it.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I find this very doubtful, she was not acting her usual self this game and the reveal of pizza mainly convinced pizza I think, since revealing pizza was always the right move for mafia.

It was the timing; I had JUST asked Renata to be inactive tonight while I had her scanned by a thermal scan. She said ok, and not much else. Then Tincow's reaction seemed, from my perspective, to be throwing me to the wolves for no reason in the middle of a round that had already been extended. The timing was really odd.

After reviewing my moves, I concluded that the most likely reason for all of this was that I got too close to forcing Dark Samus to be inactive at night. Either that or I had just revealed to one of TC's minions that passed it along to him in code.

If it was just really, really bad timing, goodie anyway; but that's what it looked like to me.

I tend to be suspicious of any reasonless sudden desire to kill me, no matter what excuses get thrown into the post which does it. Timing is very important; Sasaki suspecting me wasn't strange timing, he had been doing it for a while. Tincow's sudden reversal, and other people's, does not feel natural. Because it's not; changing your mind so dramatically in the middle of an extended round doesn't add up.

[Renata]

Wait was that round extended? Shows how out of it I was, I didn't even realize. What IS it with my mafia fate and extended rounds lately? It is always bad news, every single time.

[Ironside]

I tend to be suspicious of any reasonless sudden desire to kill me, no matter what excuses get thrown into the post which does it. Timing is very important; Sasaki suspecting me wasn't strange timing, he had been doing it for a while. Tincow's sudden reversal, and other people's, does not feel natural. Because it's not; changing your mind so dramatically in the middle of an extended round doesn't add up.

Particullary if it's mafia that does the reveal. I probably failed to get Chaotix lynched in FOTO because of that. That pursuit was mainly due to personal amusement and it showed imho.

Tincow's reveal on the other hand did feel forced, mainly due to timing.

Hard situation to get away from though, night killing ATPG or doing night WIFOM (Renata doing a night scan instead, for example) might've worked better.

Grayblades, if ATPG gets immune to lynch after achiving his objectives, this game is horribly unstable and quite unbalanced. He's supposed to be almost unkillable by night and you could have both Samus and Dark Samus dead by Day 2 if unlucky.


Wait was that round extended? Shows how out of it I was, I didn't even realize. What IS it with my mafia fate and extended rounds lately? It is always bad news, every single time.

True, indirectly costed us the game last time as well.

[Greyblades]

Grayblades, if ATPG gets immune to lynch after achiving his objectives, this game is horribly unstable and quite unbalanced. He's supposed to be almost unkillable by night and you could have both Samus and Dark Samus dead by Day 2 if unlucky. It seems you misunderstood. Alas no I dont believe he will become nigh invincible, I believe with samus and dark samus dead the game will end. Without samus I doubt the socking great space dragon will need to hide any longer and will destroy the olympus in one move. In short Game ends, ridley wins due to no character remains that is strong enough to beat him.

[ULC]

It seems you misunderstood. Alas no I dont believe he will become nigh invincible, I believe with samus and dark samus dead the game will end. Without samus I doubt the socking great space dragon will need to hide any longer and will destroy the olympus in one move. In short Game ends, ridley wins due to no character remains that is strong enough to beat him.

Obviously he didn't, because that is exactly what he meant. You two are fighting over the means when the end is exactly the same result.

[Greyblades]

What? He thought I meant Ridley would become unlynchable until the game ends if samus dies whereas I'm saying he'll win the game if it happens.
As for the ends I'm pretty sure game over is a different end to having pizza taunting us for the rest of the game... Actually that sounds scarier than game over.

[Ironside]

What? He thought I meant Ridley would become unlynchable until the game ends if samus dies whereas I'm saying he'll win the game if it happens.
As for the ends I'm pretty sure game over is a different end to having pizza taunting us for the rest of the game... Actually that sounds scarier than game over.

They are in principle the same. If he's unkillable, you might as well end the game. Giving an extreme penalty for lucky and/or good townie play.

[Greyblades]

Still, it's a worrying thought.

[ULC]

Still, it's a worrying thought.

No, it's not, because it's not in you're power to change that. As town, you must eliminate the mafia, which are Samus and Dark Samus. These are also ATPG's victory conditions. Ergo, to win you have to fullfill ATPG's VC. Which by your logic, means the town would have never been able to win in the first place.

[Greyblades]

...Are you being serious? Firstly its a theory that's all. Secondly no its not impossible to win; all they would have to do is kill pizza before killing samus. Thirdly yeah its in my power, The fact that your even disputing this means your actually listening to me so I'm making at least some impact on the game, also I'm on the replacement list and there have been afew people inactive so its likely I'll be back in the game in a turn or two. Next time you want to tell me what I can and cant do; think about it first.

[Winston Hughes]

@All
Anyone else received the pizzaguy blackmail treatment tonight?

@Beskar
Do you really want to do this publicly?

[ByzantineKnight]

FoS: Winston Hughes (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?132167-Council-of-Villains-A-State-of-Corruption-In-play&p=2053243282&highlight=#post2053243282), Grey (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?132167-Council-of-Villains-A-State-of-Corruption-In-play&p=2053243494&viewfull=1#post2053243494)blade (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?132167-Council-of-Villains-A-State-of-Corruption-In-play&p=2053243587&viewfull=1#post2053243587)s (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?132167-Council-of-Villains-A-State-of-Corruption-In-play&p=2053243608&viewfull=1#post2053243608), Jarema (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?132167-Council-of-Villains-A-State-of-Corruption-In-play&p=2053243495&viewfull=1#post2053243495)

Not that I want Pizza alive by any means but these stuck out to me as the weirdest/scummiest reasons for wanting him dead

[Greyblades]

:inquisitive: Hi. I'm a dead townie. How are you?

And I dont particlarly want Pizza dead.

[ByzantineKnight]

:inquisitive: Hi. I'm a dead townie. How are you?

And I dont particlarly want Pizza dead.

oh :shame: my mistake...

I've been working the past few days and havn't been able to keep as close an eye on the game as I wish I could have which is also why I didn't vote the round before last

but I am actually doing quite well, thanks for asking!

[Winston Hughes]

Not that I want Pizza alive by any means but these stuck out to me as the weirdest/scummiest reasons for wanting him dead

Care to elaborate on that?

[ULC]

...Are you being serious? Firstly its a theory that's all. Secondly no its not impossible to win; all they would have to do is kill pizza before killing samus. Thirdly yeah its in my power, The fact that your even disputing this means your actually listening to me so I'm making at least some impact on the game, also I'm on the replacement list and there have been afew people inactive so its likely I'll be back in the game in a turn or two. Next time you want to tell me what I can and cant do; think about it first.

I'm sorry but what? I wasn't specifically talking about you, but okay, here we go...

Pizza needs to kill Samus and Dark Samus, so do you. Thus, goals seem intially compatible, but Pizza claims neutrality, and thus you claim he will win when both Samus's are dead. He does this when he either votes for the lynch of a Samus or kills them personally, which is has a high chance of happening simply if Pizza votes for whomever gets lynched every round. Pizza has to do nothing that a normal townie wouldn't.

You're basically saying that the only way the town could ever win is if they managed to find ATPG before Dark Samus and Samus, whom the town knows are the antagonists and thus are to be lynched and where the town almost always kills scum when they find them. So the town NEVER had any realistic chance of winning, ever, by your logic. Do you not see how this is entirely USELESS to consider? Think first yourself, before you prove that you aren't trustworthy.

[Greyblades]

oh :shame: my mistake...

I've been working the past few days and havn't been able to keep as close an eye on the game as I wish I could have which is also why I didn't vote the round before last

but I am actually doing quite well, thanks for asking!

Great to hear, small update; pizza is claiming to be ridley and is supposedly a serial killer role that needs to kill 2 people .

[ByzantineKnight]

Care to elaborate on that?

The post I quoted but also the posts leading up to it, they were random and erratic, it just struck the wrong chord...


Pizza needs to kill Samus and Dark Samus, so do you. Thus, goals seem intially compatible, but Pizza claims neutrality, and thus you claim he will win when both Samus's are dead. He does this when he either votes for the lynch of a Samus or kills them personally, which is has a high chance of happening simply if Pizza votes for whomever gets lynched every round. Pizza has to do nothing that a normal townie wouldn't.

You're basically saying that the only way the town could ever win is if they managed to find ATPG before Dark Samus and Samus, whom the town knows are the antagonists and thus are to be lynched and where the town almost always kills scum when they find them. So the town NEVER had any realistic chance of winning, ever, by your logic. Do you not see how this is entirely USELESS to consider? Think first yourself, before you prove that you aren't trustworthy.

EDIT:

Great to hear, small update; pizza is claiming to be ridley and is supposedly a serial killer role that needs to kill 2 people .

Oh, I definitely caught that part :laugh4: but who wants him dead more than Samus's team right now?

Interesting, I was just reading the mafia quicktopic (http://www.quicktopic.com/45/H/L5taZ6VAUs7q) from Star Wars (posts 62-65)


And please stop using they when talking about the town, it sounds like you're not a part of it...
This one will kill you if they get a case on you later on. I think editing that one away the next day, when this part is old is best. The late editing time is a sure scummy sign, but the "they" is more obvious and almost as strong.
Didn't notice it without the extra pointing out by ATPG, so there's hope that it will go unnoticed for now.


Mmm.

I'll refrain from making such comments (neutrality after all) but that was one example where I couldn't help but giggle.

I'm notorious for picking on a certain aspect of that post, in any game where I see that aspect from any post. But if you don't know what it is, and they don't know what it is, and no one has mentioned it, you're fine.


Just a thought

[Greyblades]

I'm sorry but what? I wasn't specifically talking about you, but okay, here we go...

Pizza needs to kill Samus and Dark Samus, so do you. Thus, goals seem intially compatible, but Pizza claims neutrality, and thus you claim he will win when both Samus's are dead. He does this when he either votes for the lynch of a Samus or kills them personally, which is has a high chance of happening simply if Pizza votes for whomever gets lynched every round. Pizza has to do nothing that a normal townie wouldn't.

You're basically saying that the only way the town could ever win is if they managed to find ATPG before Dark Samus and Samus, whom the town knows are the antagonists and thus are to be lynched and where the town almost always kills scum when they find them. So the town NEVER had any realistic chance of winning, ever, by your logic. Do you not see how this is entirely USELESS to consider? Think first yourself, before you prove that you aren't trustworthy.

All I have been saying has been under the assumption that my theory is correct, I do not think that it is the only possible outcome nor even the most likely. Yet you seem to be under the impression that I believe my theory is infallible and the truth. In this case I reitorate what I said earlier: "it's a worrying thought." Thats all it was; a thought, a "what if he doesnt turn out to be telling the complete truth, what if he's lying?", A lie which, if so, you by the way seem to be swallowing hook line and sinker.

Oh and as for myself I am a dead townie. I cant be thought of as untrustworthy because it is fully proven that I am a town. I will admit I might not be helpful, I damn well am not infallible but trustworthy enough to not intentionally hinder the town? Call me arrogant but I think I have reason to claim that at least.

My response to the logic part will come in a minute, I have to calm down.

Edit: Ok, happy thoughts, happy thoughts.
You're basically saying that the only way the town could ever win is if they managed to find ATPG before Dark Samus and Samus,
I never said that it was a good theory but is it realy unreasonable for the town to get the psychopath before the mafia? Besides I might be wrong, maybe ridley would just fly off not thinking the town is worth the effort of killing, maybe he toys with the crew, I just thought killing you all seemed like the most likely.

whom the town knows are the antagonists
True.

and thus are to be lynched and where the town almost always kills scum when they find them.
In a rubicon style game its less likely, we're considering not killing a self confessed SK aren't we?

So the town NEVER had any realistic chance of winning, ever, by your logic.
All they had to do was kill one guy before finishing the game to win. Shouldnt be that hard with all the night kills flying around. Heck we havent even got proof that atpg wasn't bluffing about being NK immune.

Do you not see how this is entirely USELESS to consider?
No, I have encountered joker roles being issued by veteran hosts, such a role isnt inpossible.

[Renata]

@All
Anyone else received the pizzaguy blackmail treatment tonight?

@Beskar
Do you really want to do this publicly?

Please do. Some of us need the entertainment, whatever it is.

[TinCow]

ATPG, some day you're going to have to explain to me how you always get so many people to believe your ridiculous role claims.

[Winston Hughes]

The post I quoted but also the posts leading up to it, they were random and erratic, it just struck the wrong chord...

Please explain how my posts were random and erratic.

[Renata]

ATPG, some day you're going to have to explain to me how you always get so many people to believe your ridiculous role claims.

I think he just talks so much that it all blurs together and people figure if they just nod and say "OK Pizza" it'll all go away.

[ByzantineKnight]

Please explain how my posts were random and erratic.

You voted different people without sticking to one for too long and never gave a really good reason

[Greyblades]

Ugh, why do I always get too involved in games I have little inportance in? I'm dead and I'm coming up with conspiricy theory level ideas and making small disagreements ridiculously overblown .


Please do. Some of us need the entertainment, whatever it is.
What you dont think me throwing poop around the monkey cage is good entertainment?

[Winston Hughes]

You voted different people without sticking to one for too long and never gave a really good reason

Huh? What better reasons did most other people give? As I recall, several people gave no reason at all...

And since when is it a mark of scumminess to change your mind when you happen on a better argument?

[ByzantineKnight]

Huh? What better reasons did most other people give? As I recall, several people gave no reason at all...

And since when is it a mark of scumminess to change your mind when you happen on a better argument?

a better argument sure, but not one thats just as odd

I don't have anything concrete obviously, I'm just saying your posts rubbed me the wrong way, thats all

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I think he just talks so much that it all blurs together and people figure if they just nod and say "OK Pizza" it'll all go away.

Plus he makes you feel like you're being mean to him when you act skeptical.

[Winston Hughes]

a better argument sure, but not one thats just as odd

Please explain how my argument was odd.


I don't have anything concrete obviously, I'm just saying your posts rubbed me the wrong way, thats all

I feel the same about yours here, especially in the context of your general 'keep a low profile' approach to the game.

I count two posts before tonight: a first day nonsense-vote on Beskar, and an explanation-free vote on Jarema yesterday.

[ByzantineKnight]

Please explain how my argument was odd.



I feel the same about yours here, especially in the context of your general 'keep a low profile' approach to the game.

I count two posts before tonight: a first day nonsense-vote on Beskar, and an explanation-free vote on Jarema yesterday.

I voted for Jarema because he was right above me when I voted and he didn't have any votes on him. I hadn't paid enough attention to the game to justify voting for one of the top candidates at that point. As I explained to greyblades, I haven't been able to keep up with the game up till now.

[Winston Hughes]

I voted for Jarema because he was right above me when I voted and he didn't have any votes on him. I hadn't paid enough attention to the game to justify voting for one of the top candidates at that point. As I explained to greyblades, I haven't been able to keep up with the game up till now.

Well, now you've decided to get involved, how's about answering my question, and explaining what exactly was odd about my posts?

And, while you're at it, it'd be interesting to hear what Jarema and Greyblades did to provoke your FoSing them...

[thefluffyone93]

Unless I missed something due to me playing Black Ops,
don't we still have a certain pokemon running around?

[ByzantineKnight]

Well, now you've decided to get involved, how's about answering my question, and explaining what exactly was odd about my posts?

And, while you're at it, it'd be interesting to hear what Jarema and Greyblades did to provoke your FoSing them...

I did, I found them odd and erratic, they rubbed me the wrong way. that is it

The see the original post, I had a link to the posts if you hover over their names. I thought they were trying a little too hard/obviously to get rid of pizza

[Jarema]

. I thought they were trying a little too hard/obviously to get rid of pizza

I must confess that ATPG is the player that I am affraid of the most. No-one is so frightful to me as he is. So, when it turns out that he is a SK of a sort, I just shiver

[ULC]

The post I quoted but also the posts leading up to it, they were random and erratic, it just struck the wrong chord...



EDIT:


Oh, I definitely caught that part :laugh4: but who wants him dead more than Samus's team right now?

Interesting, I was just reading the mafia quicktopic (http://www.quicktopic.com/45/H/L5taZ6VAUs7q) from Star Wars (posts 62-65)






Just a thought

I was never really part of the town, I was as survivalist, a mafia recruit waiting to happen. You can thank the very mafia which could have recruited, for killing me. At this point I am simply disinterested in whom wins - I play for fun so when the game becomes empty of fun, so does my care cup. I am only stating what I know, information to be used by anyone, and limited by what the host will let me do.

If you want to accuse a dead townie survivalist of being mafia next time, I suggest you pay attention to how I actually play as a mafioso.


All I have been saying has been under the assumption that my theory is correct, I do not think that it is the only possible outcome nor even the most likely. Yet you seem to be under the impression that I believe my theory is infallible and the truth. In this case I reitorate what I said earlier: "it's a worrying thought." Thats all it was; a thought, a "what if he doesnt turn out to be telling the complete truth, what if he's lying?", A lie which, if so, you by the way seem to be swallowing hook line and sinker.

Oh and as for myself I am a dead townie. I cant be thought of as untrustworthy because it is fully proven that I am a town. I will admit I might not be helpful, I damn well am not infallible but trustworthy enough to not intentionally hinder the town? Call me arrogant but I think I have reason to claim that at least.

My response to the logic part will come in a minute, I have to calm down.

Edit: Ok, happy thoughts, happy thoughts.
You're basically saying that the only way the town could ever win is if they managed to find ATPG before Dark Samus and Samus,
I never said that it was a good theory but is it realy unreasonable for the town to get the psychopath before the mafia? Besides I might be wrong, maybe ridley would just fly off not thinking the town is worth the effort of killing, maybe he toys with the crew, I just thought killing you all seemed like the most likely.

whom the town knows are the antagonists
True.

and thus are to be lynched and where the town almost always kills scum when they find them.
In a rubicon style game its less likely, we're considering not killing a self confessed SK aren't we?

So the town NEVER had any realistic chance of winning, ever, by your logic.
All they had to do was kill one guy before finishing the game to win. Shouldnt be that hard with all the night kills flying around. Heck we havent even got proof that atpg wasn't bluffing about being NK immune.

Do you not see how this is entirely USELESS to consider?
No, I have encountered joker roles being issued by veteran hosts, such a role isnt inpossible.

You're still not getting the point of what I am trying to tell you. Do you know it's useless to theorize about the forging techniques used in the construction of an executioner's axe as it barrels it's way through spine on it's way to your throat and out the other side? Do you know it is equally pointless to ruminate on things that you were doomed on the outset from and that you have no control over? Why worry yourself about things you cannot control? It's pointless, go use your brain power elsewhere more constructive.

Also, untrustworthy is subjective - do I trust a fool with construction equipment? No, he could kill himself, despite the best of intentions. Likewise, just because a townie is innocent doesn't mean everything he say's is trustworthy, or what help he would offer is either.

[Greyblades]

What a charming, yet confusing, metaphor, couldnt you just ask "why are you concerned seeing as its not your problem"?, and by the way I'm concerned because I'm going to be chucked into the middle of it again in a turn. Oh and the reason I'm dwelling on my "doom"? I'm debating whether or not to keep pizza around now I know he's ridley, last thing I need is getting screwed out of a victory by helping the SK. The theory was just an idea I had on why a serial killer would only want to kill 2 people.

[Winston Hughes]

This has to be one of the weirder situations I've experienced in mafia. I've been told in advance that I'm going to be murdered by an SK who is known to everyone, but who still won't be lynched even when I turn up innocent. And my only alternative is to reveal my identity to somebody about whom I have a rather serious suspicion, and who seems to be hiding from me to avoid explaining himself.

Time's running out, Beskar...

[Yaropolk]

You could always do a public reveal, although it's not the best idea if you're of any value to the town.

[Winston Hughes]

You could always do a public reveal, although it's not the best idea if you're of any value to the town.

If a public reveal is what people want, then they should let me live long enough to face a lynch vote. I'm not letting Beskar off the hook for this.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Pizza shouldn't be killing based on private discussion. End of story.

[Winston Hughes]

Pizza shouldn't be killing based on private discussion. End of story.

Indeed.

By the way, you'll recall a PM I sent you early on in the game. I already knew the answer to that question, misleading as it was.

[Beskar]

Winston, get over yourself.

This is the sum of it. Winston is fishing for information which I am refusing to give to him for obvious reasons. He is doing the lamest attempt of "full reveal all to me now or I will expose you!".

Amused, I started to question his assertions.

Apparently, he claims he 'copied' a kill ability from me (originally, he apparently had 'all'), and he says I have to fully reveal or he will 'out' me. So entertaining this, I questioned "So, what is the name of this ability then?". He kept refusing to state what this imaginary ability is (since he evidently hasn't got it and doesn't exist). This carried on where he kept going "No! You full reveal or I expose you in thread!"

So I asked him, "So right, you copied a kill ability one of the mafia used?", he says "No.", so I ask "So you are accusing me of having a never seen before kill ability, that would be pretty unique. What is it?", he goes "Not telling you, full reveal now or I will say in thread". Then I question "So you are saying you trust me, but have 'doubts', want me to full reveal and give nothing in return, and you are a mafia suspect... so why?" and then he goes "You might kill people with impunity, that is scummy, no town would attempt to hide their abilities." (:laugh4:)

I was sat there thinking, "Who does he think I am, Tim Crow? No one is going to fall for this". Since I was playing Marvel Ultimate Alliance 2 on Xbox at the time too, so they were annoyed I was distracted, I turned off my computer.

Come on to check thread and its like "Come on Beskar, or I will reveal!!".

It is an obvious con, if I was actually mafia, he would reveal it and go "Beskar is mafia, lynch him", but funnily enough, he only brings this up when ATPG said to him he was going to vig him. He is attempting to blackmail and failing. I hope Pizza does kill you tonight, for your lame fishing attempt.

I apologise if you was expecting anything from Winston Hughes, but I have to burst the bubble. Such lame blackmail attempts deserve a slap.



Edit:
I would like to point out he is claiming this 'now' when ATPG threatened to kill him, and not in the last 72 hours he had this information. It is an obvious bluff in order to take out one of the leading towns in the game and me to pressure ATPG not to kill him. He is possibly the last Dark Samus player too, this is why he is being supported by dead mafia players. Try harder.

[Reenk Roink]

On Atpg: Yes, he isn't a town role, and yes there is still a reasonable amount of probability that he is a true SK and not just an anti town SK.

STILL, the guy turned around TinCow's plan and gathered information leading to Renata's lynch. Need I remind you that SAMUS and DARK SAMUS are Mafia. Mafia are much more important targets than even a true SK.

Plus the writeup confirmed his identity, his alibi's make sense and are likely true.

Furthermore, there is NO DOUBT in my mind that I would MUCH rather have Atpg win at all AT the expense of the town than freaking Samus who killed me on round 1. :furious3: I hate Samus so much and my main goal in staying in this game is to make sure she and her team lose along with Beefy living (Beefy I swear to god if you're Samus...) AND there is still the possibility of Atpg winning it WITH US. Can't say that about Samus... :wink:

Samus and her team haven't been scratched yet, Atpg is a powerful anti-Samus figure. Atpg's earned his rope, we have 30+ players, let him stay alive for some time for godssake! The only way it is a bad idea is if Atpg can recruit which seems very unlikely.

prefos All players voting Atpg next round.


Next time, I hope you can give me more credit than being cheap like that. :shame:

I don't understand this comment? I am upset at you for trying to help Samus, which no doubt factored into your decision to reveal Atpg. Yes you got very unlucky by being scanned and then the leak due to recruitment efforts, it reminds of PSM. But oh well, the win loss doesn't matter. I really liked the way you handled your early lynch. I really didn't like you doing a favor for my murderer... :shrug:

[TinCow]

I was sat there thinking, "Who does think I am, Tim Crow? No one is going to fall for this".

Was that comment really necessary?

[TinCow]

I don't understand this comment? I am upset at you for trying to help Samus, which no doubt factored into your decision to reveal Atpg. Yes you got very unlucky by being scanned and then the leak due to recruitment efforts, it reminds of PSM. But oh well, the win loss doesn't matter. I really liked the way you handled your early lynch. I really didn't like you doing a favor for my murderer... :shrug:

Clearly you missed the fact that the only reason I did that was to save my mafia boss. The line about Samus was just drama to make it look more clever.

[Double A]

I'm sorry but what? I wasn't specifically talking about you, but okay, here we go...

Pizza needs to kill Samus and Dark Samus, so do you. Thus, goals seem intially compatible, but Pizza claims neutrality, and thus you claim he will win when both Samus's are dead. He does this when he either votes for the lynch of a Samus or kills them personally, which is has a high chance of happening simply if Pizza votes for whomever gets lynched every round. Pizza has to do nothing that a normal townie wouldn't.

You're basically saying that the only way the town could ever win is if they managed to find ATPG before Dark Samus and Samus, whom the town knows are the antagonists and thus are to be lynched and where the town almost always kills scum when they find them. So the town NEVER had any realistic chance of winning, ever, by your logic. Do you not see how this is entirely USELESS to consider? Think first yourself, before you prove that you aren't trustworthy.

But if Pizza hadn't gotten the Meta Ridley role, you can probably assume it would go to someone who would randomly kill people. Then the town would probably try to lynch Ridley due to his affiliation as a recurring bad guy. Ridley would have been designed to be killed for a full townie victory.

[Winston Hughes]

@Beskar

What?

I never asked for a full reveal. Not once. That is an outright lie.

Literally all I asked for was the names of your kill abilities, stating that I already knew one of them. It was I who offered a full reveal in exchange. Your response was to rely on a hollow argument about not wanting to give the villains ammunition for WIFOM, as if that counts for anything.

I know for a fact what one of your kill abilities is, and I strongly suspect that you have others, given how unwilling you were to divulge them unless I first told you the one I knew about (thus allowing you to claim that that was the only one you have). I gave you another chance when I revealed how I knew about the ability, which would thus be confirmable, since I know not only the name but also the detail in its description. Still you would not budge.

Thus, with a known villain acting as your right hand, you had me under the threat of death, unless I gave up my one card - the detail which has the potential to falsify a claim you might make about your killing powers. My only recourse was publicity.

So, now that you've forced my hand and revealed my ability to the world, why don't you now tell us all what kill abilities you have? As I said several times without any meaningful response: why keep them to yourself unless you plan on getting away with murder?

[Reenk Roink]

Clearly you missed the fact that the only reason I did that was to save my mafia boss. The line about Samus was just drama to make it look more clever.

Even false compliments or pretending to Samus are crossing the line...

[Cecil XIX]

Pizza shouldn't be killing based on private discussion. End of story.

Agreed.

[Double A]

I wonder what kind of blow if any Dark Samus dying does to the team. It would suck if all they lost was a member and could still recruit, because then even if two went down more could easily be recruited. Then again recruiting people who can't kill just yet doesn't do much.

To all IDFH: Team Dark Samus is likely weakened now with two down and some probably exposed, just don't bother joining them anymore.


Some replies to posts that I've haven't answered yet, from yesterday.



I missed that question yesterday, Sasaki.

I am not 'impressed' by it, it's not the right word. I just think that a player deserve some credit for a well-timed vote against a scum, enough credit to be immune to petty cases like the one you had on him yesterday.



Bah, you misinterpreted my posts twice in a row. Wondering if my explanations were that bad or if it's something else. Anyway ATPG confirmed in a later post, that cover role names will appear in the writeup, if attacked. I guess that I believe him on that point. Surely he was trying to save his life, and being caught in a lie here wouldn't help.



Wow AA, what's up with you in this game? I'm seeing some analysis, some good reasons to place a vote, and now you're answering my question on mafia having the ability to kill their voters in a previous CoV game.

I just don't recognize you. Anyway, thanks for answering.

So what was Motep saying about mafia having the ability to kill their voters if they were lynched? It happened in another CoV game maybe? I'll have to check the first game "Council of Villains" and the 2nd, "The Missing Link", unless someone else knows the answer?

I still think it's interesting to know if TinCow could kill one of his own, if they were voting for him, because they wouldn't be voting for him if that's the case, unless they're ballsy, maybe.


I'm sorry but what? I wasn't specifically talking about you, but okay, here we go...

Pizza needs to kill Samus and Dark Samus, so do you. Thus, goals seem intially compatible, but Pizza claims neutrality, and thus you claim he will win when both Samus's are dead. He does this when he either votes for the lynch of a Samus or kills them personally, which is has a high chance of happening simply if Pizza votes for whomever gets lynched every round. Pizza has to do nothing that a normal townie wouldn't.

You're basically saying that the only way the town could ever win is if they managed to find ATPG before Dark Samus and Samus, whom the town knows are the antagonists and thus are to be lynched and where the town almost always kills scum when they find them. So the town NEVER had any realistic chance of winning, ever, by your logic. Do you not see how this is entirely USELESS to consider? Think first yourself, before you prove that you aren't trustworthy.


@Beskar

What?

I never asked for a full reveal. Not once. That is an outright lie.

Literally all I asked for was the names of your kill abilities, stating that I already knew one of them. It was I who offered a full reveal in exchange. Your response was to rely on a hollow argument about not wanting to give the villains ammunition for WIFOM, as if that counts for anything.

I know for a fact what one of your kill abilities is, and I strongly suspect that you have others, given how unwilling you were to divulge them unless I first told you the one I knew about (thus allowing you to claim that that was the only one you have). I gave you another chance when I revealed how I knew about the ability, which would thus be confirmable, since I know not only the name but also the detail in its description. Still you would not budge.

Thus, with a known villain acting as your right hand, you had me under the threat of death, unless I gave up my one card - the detail which has the potential to falsify a claim you might make about your killing powers. My only recourse was publicity.

So, now that you've forced my hand and revealed my ability to the world, why don't you now tell us all what kill abilities you have? As I said several times without any meaningful response: why keep them to yourself unless you plan on getting away with murder?

I just don't understand why you haven't posted it here yet. It's not much of a "card" in the first place. If this was Magic, it would be Storm Crows.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Yeah I don't like beskar's post.

If it was a different SK I would be all in favor of letting him live, but I don't want pizza behind the scenes. If I was in his spot I'd find the mafia and try and ally, and if pizza is thinking pro-town thoughts right now they are highly variable (see his other games).

[Reenk Roink]

Yeah I don't like beskar's post.

If it was a different SK I would be all in favor of letting him live, but I don't want pizza behind the scenes. If I was in his spot I'd find the mafia and try and ally, and if pizza is thinking pro-town thoughts right now they are highly variable (see his other games).

If Pizza wants to betray the town he will have to wait for a good amount of time before having a reasonable chance of getting away with it. AT LEAST give him until we have like 24 players remaining.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

If Pizza wants to betray the town he will have to wait for a good amount of time before having a reasonable chance of getting away with it. AT LEAST give him until we have like 24 players remaining.

I'd like it to play out like yesterday. Pizza wagon, counterwagon. He'll get lynched eventually. It has the potential to be more informative than a set time.

If he kills someone discussed tonight though he has to die on principle. Unless they are mafia, lol.

[Captain Blackadder]

I find Beskar suspicious but something about WInston's story does not ring true not sure what it is just that something feels off to me.

[Beskar]

I never asked for a full reveal. Not once. That is an outright lie.

No it isn't, stop trying to cover yourself up.


Literally all I asked for was the names of your kill abilities, stating that I already knew one of them. It was I who offered a full reveal in exchange. Your response was to rely on a hollow argument about not wanting to give the villains ammunition for WIFOM, as if that counts for anything.

You was asking for 'all abilities'. I was told you I wouldn't give out that kind of information, especially to a mafia suspect, I trust Pizza more than you and he is scum. especially considering certain situations where my abilities unknown are possibly protecting other pro-town roles. Being a pro-town, I am not going to give information to a mafia suspect with a false reveal.

You are simply trying to bait a situation on me which is false to the town in order to cover your own behind, as you was threatened to be killed by Pizza (apparently, i don't know if he did or not). That is it, zero. You have nothing at all. I am so confident, I am calling out on your nonsense.


I know for a fact what one of your kill abilities is, and I strongly suspect that you have others, given how unwilling you were to divulge them unless I first told you the one I knew about (thus allowing you to claim that that was the only one you have). I gave you another chance when I revealed how I knew about the ability, which would thus be confirmable, since I know not only the name but also the detail in its description. Still you would not budge.


If you don't know why a pro-town would reveal information to a mafia suspect, I recommend reading the mafia 101 which is stickied at the top by Beefy.


Thus, with a known villain acting as your right hand, you had me under the threat of death, unless I gave up my one card - the detail which has the potential to falsify a claim you might make about your killing powers. My only recourse was publicity.

What are you on about? ATPG contacted you on his own volition and that is if he contacted you at all (Pizza at work, so I can't even ask). So I never had you 'anywhere' and I never had you any under 'threat of death'. I never forced you into anything.

I will also remind you that Pizza wants Dark Samus and Samus dead, aka, the mafia, he is a powerful town assert which he has commented he will gladly be. He isn't my "right-hand dragon".


So, now that you've forced my hand and revealed my ability to the world, why don't you now tell us all what kill abilities you have? As I said several times without any meaningful response: why keep them to yourself unless you plan on getting away with murder?

Well, 'plan on getting away with murder' would imply I am not one of the murderers. especially as you would know the said ability and go "hey, isn't that the person that killed x?". If this was the case, you would accuse me of actually attacking some one, which you haven't, because this ability hasn't been used.

So evident from this information alone shows I am not one of the mafia killers.

Since you cannot name 'imaginary ability x' on top of this, you have absolutely zero.

So ultimately, this is what you are doing. You are faking this information to try to use this situation to your own advantage. You have nothing, you are all bark and no bite. If you had anything, you would have been in this thread like a shot last round and got me lynched. However, apparently I am 'forcing you to reveal' that I apparently might be a mafia. :laugh4:

Sorry Winston, I hope ATPG kills you tonight. If you are a mafia, nice try, if you was a town, dumb move.

[Winston Hughes]

By the way, the question I asked Sasaki early on in the game was "What abilities do you have?"

He didn't have any.

[Beskar]

By the way, the question I asked Sasaki early on in the game was "What abilities do you have?"

He didn't have any.

Was this when TinCow revealed Sasaki as being Rundas (GF aligned) ? Oh wait.. it was. :wink: Just a coincidence surely? I mean, the both of you investigating the same person and knowing he was just a normal townie.

Still waiting for you to reveal this kill ability. Why are you so hesitant in revealing, something to hide? Is it the fact it doesn't exist? Yeah, that kind of puts a damper on your plans. Claiming people have non-existent abilities.

[Winston Hughes]

You was asking for 'all abilities'.

No, I specifically said: "I only need to know the kill abilities".

You are lying through your teeth.


You are simply trying to bait a situation on me which is false to the town in order to cover your own behind, as you was threatened to be killed by Pizza.

Cover my own behind? I've been fully expecting to die ever since you ran away from our conversation without warning, right after I called out your motives for not wanting to reveal your kill abilities.

And you're still ducking the question now.


Since you cannot name 'imaginary ability x' on top of this, you have absolutely zero.

You mean my own ability? It's called 'Metamorph'.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I wonder about pizza thinking beskar was one of the mafia, and then turning around to be all buddy buddy now that I think of it.

[Winston Hughes]

Still waiting for you to reveal this kill ability. Why are you so hesitant in revealing, something to hide? Is it the fact it doesn't exist? Yeah, that kind of puts a damper on your plans. Claiming people have non-existent abilities.

(Beskar edited this in after my post)

Wait, are you saying you don't have a kill ability at all?

[Beskar]

(Beskar edited this in after my post)

Wait, are you saying you don't have a kill ability at all?

Well, if you are mafia, you could indeed have a kill ability. Doesn't make it mine. Plus, apparently 'mine' hasn't been used by the mafia. So i would be expecting something unique and special for you to be correct. :smile:


You mean my own ability? It's called 'Metamorph'.

No the name of the kill ability you apparently copied which you keep ducking.

why so hesitant, Winston?

[Captain Blackadder]

I agree that was what is bugging me what is Beskars ability called Winston you say you know it so what is it called and what is its description?

[Beskar]

I agree that was what is bugging me what is Beskars ability called Winston you say you know it so what is it called and what is its description?

Hah, my ability is "Only Winston knows", it has the special power of not killing people, unless you say its name, at which point, you mysteriously do not get killed by it.

[Winston Hughes]

Plus, apparently 'mine' hasn't been used by the mafia.

No, I said I didn't know if you've killed anyone. Not the same thing at all.


No the name of the kill ability you apparently copied which you keep ducking.

Okay, this is the point where I go from merely suspecting you, to actually thinking you are a villain.


why so hesitant, Winston?

Hesitant? I'm not the one who went off to 'play X-Box' for six hours - without warning - rather than work it out between us. In case you hadn't noticed, I've been waiting for you to come back ever since. I've still got the IM conversation open. The last few lines are:

"or, if you prefer, I could reveal what I know about you in the thread
because I'm becoming increasingly suspicious about your desire to keep your murder skills secret
there is no reason I can see other than a desire to kill with impunity
and that's not a pro-town desire"

Then you vanished.

[Winston Hughes]

I agree that was what is bugging me what is Beskars ability called Winston you say you know it so what is it called and what is its description?

The moment I say its name, Beskar can claim it's the only kill ability he has, even if he has a whole stack of others.

[Beskar]

The moment I say its name, Beskar can claim it's the only kill ability he has, even if he has a whole stack of others.

:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:

I have a secret stash of kill abilities, along with "Only Winston knows", there is "Winston suspects" and "Winston's imagination".

How dare I be foiled. How could you do this to me, almightly lords of the Gameroom, thy Sigurd and General of Hankerchief be thy name.

My real ability is called "Accessing Winston's Role PM", in Winston's pm, it says "Your alignment is Mafia (the badguys)", it even gave me access to their quicktopic. :o :o :o

[Winston Hughes]

:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:

I have a secret stash of kill abilities, along with "Only Winston knows", there is "Winston suspects" and "Winston's imagination".

How dare I be foiled. How could you do this to me, almightly lords of the Gameroom, thy Sigurd and General of Hankerchief be thy name.

My real ability is called "Accessing Winston's Role PM", in it, it says "Your alignment is Mafia (the badguys)", it even gave me access to their quicktopic. :o :o :o

Well, I'm off to bed right now. It's been fun.

But for a final sentiment, I must point out that the last time Beskar took this mocking tone towards me, it was when I correctly identified him as mafia in another game.

[Captain Blackadder]

The moment I say its name, Beskar can claim it's the only kill ability he has, even if he has a whole stack of others.

Fine then you can tell me or someone else if you do not trust me the ability. I just want someone to be able to back up your view. I do not care who that person is.

[Askthepizzaguy]

@All
Anyone else received the pizzaguy blackmail treatment tonight?

You know, Seon received the blackmail treatment, and that lead to me trying to save his :daisy: while the rest of you wanted him dead. And then what happened? Oh yeah, that's right, Dark Samus died.

I love how forceful, yet obviously helpful and productive, behavior is now scummy.

And yeah, if you ask around, you'll understand I've threatened a bunch of people in exchange for information; the alternative is randomly killing, and not caring what the result is.

I did the exact same thing in.... a lot of other games, really. This is standard operating procedure.


ATPG, some day you're going to have to explain to me how you always get so many people to believe your ridiculous role claims.

When the game ends, I'll accept your apology. Sometimes truth is stranger than fiction.

I usually try to make my lies, you know, believable. This role is ridiculous, yet extremely satisfying. Goes down smooth, great flavor.


Plus he makes you feel like you're being mean to him when you act skeptical.

Ordinarily I'd say yeah, I try to play such head games, but at the time I was frustrated that none of my suspects were good enough for anyone, and all my moves were being criticized. Give me something positive to work with.


I must confess that ATPG is the player that I am affraid of the most. No-one is so frightful to me as he is. So, when it turns out that he is a SK of a sort, I just shiver

Listen Jarema, I hear what you're saying, and I want to calm your fears. Please click the spoiler for more.

RRRROOOOOAAAAAARRR!!

https://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb225/askthepizzaguy/SP/Meta-Ridley1.gif



I noticed some complaints about my methods in the preceding posts; specifically threatening in private.

It's what I did with Seon, to positive effect, even for Seon himself. Kind of ESPECIALLY for Seon himself.

Honestly, Winston should be happy I'm asking him who he is before I just blithely kill him. Do you guys want me to kill your investigator, protector, or hero roles?

I'm just asking.

Now, if you want me to drop that, I will. I don't see why I should, but if it's how you want me to operate, with one wing tied behind my back, okay.... this is your show, tell me what to do.

Now, I want a response to the question: Do you want me to try to avoid hitting useful people, or people with stories I can easily confirm, or would you prefer me to kill randomly?

I could just abstain from killing at all, I gave that option, and several people have suggested they'd actually prefer I act as a vigilante here. Please decide, one thing that is frustrating is I'll work hard for you, but a couple dozen bosses with different strategic demands makes for an unhappy and unproductive Pizza. Please have one clear objective for me, and then ask me to do that.

[Seon]

Hey, but me folding to the slightest threat (read grand) worked out in the end :p. We got dark Samus and you out into the light after all.

[Beskar]

Well, I'm off to bed right now.

But for a final sentiment, I must point out that the last time Beskar took this mocking tone towards me, it was when I correctly identified him as mafia in another game.

So you are going to bed, without even mentioning this kill ability, this proof you found a mafia? :laugh4: :rolleyes:

I apologise, but I am in hysterics. You are lying so badly on a unbelievable level and it is obvious that you are.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Hey, but me folding to the slightest threat (read grand) worked out in the end :p. We got dark Samus and you out into the light after all.

I know it did. I don't understand how a successful and useful strategy is now bad.

I guess it's the SK thing. Look, I'd be doing the exact same thing if I were pure as the driven snow. Mafia respond to threats, townies understand why threats are necessary, and understand no one is above suspicion.

I am getting angry that Winston refuses to name the ability he supposedly stole from Beskar. It would take a fraction of a second to just state, for the record. There is NO DAMAGE to the town if he does so, because he already stated that Beskar had such a power. Therefore, it's kind of like when Kagemusha refused to reveal, after Tincow was after him and Kagemusha himself had revealed 90% of his info, in the previous game.

The damage, whatever it may be, has been done. Reveal or get the heck out, Winston. Do you realize you might have caught Beskar in a lie? You might be able to prove he's mafia or something? Yet you refuse to give the goods?

This is either a really bad bluff, or I do not know what the heck you're waiting for. Tell me.

[Beskar]

I could just abstain from killing at all, I gave that option, and several people have suggested they'd actually prefer I act as a vigilante here. Please decide, one thing that is frustrating is I'll work hard for you, but a couple dozen bosses with different strategic demands makes for an unhappy and unproductive Pizza. Please have one clear objective for me, and then ask me to do that.

Kill Winston. He cannot even name this apparent 'kill ability' which proves I am mafia scum (even though it apparently hasn't even been used by the mafia too), even after prompting by myself and other town in thread.

He is evidently the last remaining Dark Samus player (which is why Renata, etc was in full support of him). He knows I am protected at night so he is hoping to get me lynched off as 'revenge'.


I am getting angry that Winston refuses to name the ability he supposedly stole from Beskar. It would take a fraction of a second to just state, for the record. There is NO DAMAGE to the town if he does so, because he already stated that Beskar had such a power. Therefore, it's kind of like when Kagemusha refused to reveal, after Tincow was after him and Kagemusha himself had revealed 90% of his info, in the previous game.

The damage, whatever it may be, has been done. Reveal or get the heck out, Winston. Do you realize you might have caught Beskar in a lie? You might be able to prove he's mafia or something? Yet you refuse to give the goods?

This is either a really bad bluff, or I do not know what the heck you're waiting for.

It is a really bad bluff, infact, it isn't even a bluff. It is an attempt to get you to spare him tonight, because he has some information, but he won't reveal it, because he doesn't actually have anything at all.

Then he is using the threat of not being able to 'expose' if you killed him at night. But since there is nothing to expose in the first place, you won't find it magically in the morning anyway.

The fact Dark Samus is fully behind him is icing on the cake.

[johnhughthom]

But for a final sentiment, I must point out that the last time Beskar took this mocking tone towards me, it was when I correctly identified him as mafia in another game.

He's addressed you in a different tone?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Please vote now for Winston to die or be spared.

He refused to give me anything substantive in private, which is fine.... didn't tell beskar what ability he copied/stole from him, but claimed and insisted he had done so.

Now, when simply asked directly to state what it was he took, and I contacted him privately while he was still online and asked him:

EDIT: Can't copy.

Gist of it: "Before you go to bed, what ability did you take from Beskar."

He went offline a few minutes afterward.

Do you guys think his story is credible enough to double-check first, or should I pull the trigger?


He's addressed you in a different tone?

:laugh4:

It's a fair cop.

[classical_hero]

I vote for to kill Winston. There are too many holes in his story. If Beskar is right, then killing him is great for the town. If he is town, then he should have confessed to what he knew, like Seon did.

[Greyblades]

Ugh how long until this turn is over?

Storming off in a huff though it was I wouldnt want to be killed while sleeping Vote: dont kill Winston

[Beskar]

vote

He is a either the last remaining Dark Samus member (most likely), or a Survivalist being foolish (least likely)

[thefluffyone93]

http://emilytheperson.com/thumbs%20down.jpg
OFF WITH HIS HEAD!
So yea, vote.

[Askthepizzaguy]

It is a really bad bluff, infact, it isn't even a bluff. It is an attempt to get you to spare him tonight, because he has some information, but he won't reveal it, because he doesn't actually have anything at all.

Then he is using the threat of not being able to 'expose' if you killed him at night. But since there is nothing to expose in the first place, you won't find it magically in the morning anyway.

The fact Dark Samus is fully behind him is icing on the cake.

All right calm down now, you're making me uneasy.

I have a vibe here that feels like two mafiosi from two different families are threatening each other privately, threatening to expose the other, but won't take it public because that means death for you both.

There is something unusual about this entire proceeding, because Winston does not usually play so badly, even when he's scum. I'd say, especially when he's scum.

Beskar, if he copied any ability from you, tell me. You didn't say you had any abilities. There's no reason to hide them if you're both trusted and protected.

Is there any truth to what he's saying?

The reason why I ask is, if you had ZERO abilities, the instant he said he stole something from you, you'd be able to say "pardon me? Wrong bluff, buddy" and just call for his head immediately.

Instead you question him, which implies that he is right about something.

Just tell us; if you're both scum I still would prefer to take down Winston first.

[Frozen In Ice]

It appears the only reason Winston gave for not revealing which ability he stole is because he is afraid Beskar has multiple killing abilities. I could see why Winston would do that when there was still a lot of time left for him to try to pry it out of Beskar. But now he knows he will likely die if doesn't give a name, and yet he still refuses. He would've given a name if he had one at this point if he cared for his life at all. So either he's anti-town caught in a lie, or he's a townie that doesn't care about his life.

I say take a shot if you wish ATPG.

[TinCow]

Do I get a vote?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Do I get a vote?

I am morbidly curious.

Go ahead. Renata too.

[Romanic]

Uh, I'll have to re-read the Winston vs Beskar debate to get a better idea of things, but killing Winston tonight? I don't know... I thought that Autolycus gave us a good alternative.


Dear Meta-Ridley and Phazon-Corrupted (and everyone else too)
Based on today and stuff I can't discuss since I'm dead, I'm fairly certain Frozen in Ice is scum and specifically Samus scum. Might I suggest you kill him?
Thanks,
Mr. Dead Quarantine Officer.

He's fairly certain that Frozen in Ice is on the Samus team, based on stuff that he cannot discuss. It looks like a good lead to follow.

My pick for the Pizza kill would be Frozen in Ice, even if he has not answered the accusation. I trust that Autolycus wouldn't have posted this, phrasing it how he did, if his reasons weren't good enough.

[TinCow]

I am morbidly curious.

Go ahead. Renata too.

Spare his life so that he can lynch Samus tomorrow. :grin:

Mafia fratricide FTW!

[Captain Blackadder]

Well as to whether he should die tonight rests on who the other target is going to be. I say don't kill him but have a very close look at both him and Beskar because if both of them are town I will eat my hat. One of them is scum possibly both of them.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Uh, I'll have to re-read the Winston vs Beskar debate to get a better idea of things, but killing Winston tonight? I don't know... I thought that Autolycus gave us a good alternative.

He's fairly certain that Frozen in Ice is on the Samus team, based on stuff that he cannot discuss. It looks like a good lead to follow.

My pick for the Pizza kill would be Frozen in Ice, even if he has not answered the accusation. I trust that Autolycus wouldn't have posted this, phrasing it how he did, if his reasons weren't good enough.

I do feel this is a very important point. But I feel quite wary of pulling the trigger blindly on Frozen, even based on a dead townie hunch. Still, you're right, there's basically no reason I shouldn't act on that. I am only weighing my options.

I feel the Winston lead is more pressing, and I feel the Frozen lead should get a full vote, not just me shooting him.


Spare his life so that he can lynch Samus tomorrow. :grin:

Mafia fratricide FTW!

This still feels like a mafia bluff. Will consider, yet probably ignore.

If he's the last member of your team, he's not got long for this world regardless, because he's angrying up the blood of a bunch of other factions IMO.


Well as to whether he should die tonight rests on who the other target is going to be. I say don't kill him but have a very close look at both him and Beskar because if both of them are town I will eat my hat. One of them is scum possibly both of them.

Beskar is holding something back, but after talking with him, I don't believe he's mafia.


*new information*


And, I also know this: Winston is absolutely lying about something, or he's mafia, or both; or Beskar is.

Between the two of them, Winston has more to prove. If he comes up townie, Beskar has a LOT of explaining to do. And honestly, Winston does too, because he has been caught in a lie about something, or he would do his townie duty.

Beskar knows he's lying for reasons I won't go into. Winston bluffed, and was caught in the bluff.



I will be killing Winston Hughes tonight, for certain. If I die, Beskar must explain why I have done these actions. If Winston comes up townie, Beskar must be pressured, but not just him; I'd like to know from Winston why he was lying. It doesn't make sense.

[Beskar]

the instant he said he stole something from you, you'd be able to say "pardon me? Wrong bluff, buddy" and just call for his head immediately.

This is what I did. But he continued, so I played along for amusement, thus asked him what this ability apparently in (as I mentioned in my first post). One that never materialised either in private or public...

[Chaotix]

TWO IMPORTANT NOTICES:

Replacements:
Motep has been replaced by Greyblades.
Death is yonder has been replaced by Choxorn.

Additionally, I have decided to extend this night phase to 8:00 PM EST tomorrow. Apologies for any inconveniences that creates.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Woot, more time to discuss.

Given the giant amount of investigators we've discovered, I would like to switch the discussion to candidates for scan. Assuming Winston dies, who should we scan?

Give multiple options so it is still not obvious what our plan is. I just want to hear who we will be investigating.

I already have like 3 people I want to know more about, personally, and they are town suspects at the moment, but re-reading the past round, I am slightly more skeptical of the idea that the people who voted for me over Renata must be scum. I think Winston may have been the only one.

I still want to confirm on a couple, maybe, but I am more open to the idea of other targets. Let's also coordinate who we investigate, to cover maximum territory in a single night with absolute efficiency. Later, if the detectives survive, we have them scan each other.

[pevergreen]

TWO IMPORTANT NOTICES:

Replacements:
Motep has been replaced by Greyblades.
Death is yonder has been replaced by Choxorn.

Additionally, I have decided to extend this night phase to 8:00 PM EST tomorrow. Apologies for any inconveniences that creates.

Hello replacements. ~:wave:

The only inconveniance is having to wait longer to see more writeups. :2thumbsup:

[/flattery of the host]

This makes Beskar seem very off.

ATPG, you can understand why we can't completely trust you here. Beskar covered for you by lying.

Winston could be telling the truth. I can see how hes trying to do it. If he did copy an ability off Beskar, and its a killing ability, obviously Beskar seems to have admitted to having at least one. Winston is trying to make Beskar say it out loud, so he can figure if he has more than one (which would point to not being a town role, imo) by getting him to say a different one.

If he didnt have one, it wouldnt be like this. If he had one, he could say so straight away, or work out a compromise (give me 5th letter of first word or something/link me to the picture)

The fact that Beskar is acting how he is, is off; so.

Vote: Kill winston

If hes town, lynch Beskar. We don't need beskar, hes just a front for the investigator. A possible mafia front.

[Askthepizzaguy]

This makes Beskar seem very off.

ATPG, you can understand why we can't completely trust you here. Beskar covered for you by lying.

Yes, I do indeed understand, but that's more a reflection on Beskar than me.


Winston could be telling the truth. I can see how hes trying to do it. If he did copy an ability off Beskar, and its a killing ability, obviously Beskar seems to have admitted to having at least one. Winston is trying to make Beskar say it out loud, so he can figure if he has more than one (which would point to not being a town role, imo) by getting him to say a different one.

What he accused Beskar of, was so inaccurate, that everything beyond that point was an obviously bad move. He couldn't back down or answer any questions related to it because it was so off the mark.

I'd bet my head that Winston is mafia, or I will have words with him after the game about when the proper time to lie as a townie is.


Vote: Kill winston

If hes town, lynch Beskar. We don't need beskar, hes just a front for the investigator. A possible mafia front.

I can say with almost absolute certainty that Beskar is not mafia.

Samus mafia wants me ever, ever so dead, and Beskar is obviously not Dark Samus mafia.

There would have to be a third mafia, and I do not think so. That's not what's going on here.

[TinCow]

This still feels like a mafia bluff. Will consider, yet probably ignore.

If he's the last member of your team, he's not got long for this world regardless, because he's angrying up the blood of a bunch of other factions IMO.

Think of it this way, if you let him live one of the two of them is almost certain to be lynched tomorrow. That means you get another day to fade into the background and play townie.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Think of it this way, if you let him live one of the two of them is almost certain to be lynched tomorrow. That means you get another day to fade into the background and play townie.

That's really not my objective and you know it. I appreciate the game you're playing, and I find it very amusing; right up there with Andres' dead+distracting mafia play. Letting him live, as he's caught out lying, is downright foolish. The threat of being lynched tomorrow doesn't enter into it. Or even so, if he's Samus, I want to kill him before I get lynched. If he's mafia, my use to the town is further proven anyway.

The last thing I need is to misfire here. There is no benefit to letting Winston live if what I'm seeing isn't Winston's most horrendous townie mistake ever. Further, if he is "mafia" mafia, as in your team or Samuses, odds are pretty good he's got a reason to attack me tonight.

I believe one of three things is the case here, given your reaction.

1. He's blundered horribly badly as a townie, with a bluff that backfired and made him look scummy. I rate this outcome as highly unlikely for Winston.
2. He is Phazon, and you'd just like to delay him getting killed off so swiftly after yourself and Renata so he can possibly recruit and continue your legacy
3. He's Samus mafia, and you just want to see a maximum amount of non-townie roles survive and cause mayhem for your own amusement.

In any of these cases, I'm not inclined to give you satisfaction by letting him off the hook. You play ruthless, I play ruthless.


Anyway, he's got 24 hours to explain himself, and I am looking forward to it. It's entirely possible he says something interesting. But rest assured, I need a real explanation, not a bluff. It's not going to cut it.

[Double A]

... what happens if mafia playes merciful?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

OASEULA.CGBULG.KLGOBSTHSAOTCEJHSLRCBKJCBXLKGOCKLAGDJLEOKBEU ABOKH

JUST ****** SCAN AS DEFAULT

Beskar's response is hugely hugely scummy.

Scum seem to be crawling all over the "kill winston" request.

Frozen is likely scum.

THERE IS NO EARTHLY REASON TO KILL SOMEONE IN THE MIDDLE OF A DEBATE

Winston quite clearly stated his reason for not saying the power.


Apparently, he claims he 'copied' a kill ability from me (originally, he apparently had 'all'), and he says I have to fully reveal or he will 'out' me. So entertaining this, I questioned "So, what is the name of this ability then?".

Beskar practically ADMITS to having a kill ability here. If someone said they copied a kill ability from me, and I didn't have any, I WOULD NOT say "so what's the name of it?". DUH

[TinCow]

I believe one of three things is the case here, given your reaction.

1. He's blundered horribly badly as a townie, with a bluff that backfired and made him look scummy. I rate this outcome as highly unlikely for Winston.
2. He is Phazon, and you'd just like to delay him getting killed off so swiftly after yourself and Renata so he can possibly recruit and continue your legacy
3. He's Samus mafia, and you just want to see a maximum amount of non-townie roles survive and cause mayhem for your own amusement.

You don't think there's any possibility Beskar is scum, regardless of Winston's role? You noted a few oddities about Beskar's responses just a few posts up... Surely if your only remaining objective is to kill Samus, you'd want to carefully consider all potential suspects for that role.


Oh, by the way, the ability Beskar's detective used to ID me is called X-Ray Visor. It is the only investigative ability in the game that can pierce a cover role, and it is possessed by both mafia families. Beskar's detective is my counterpart from the Samus mafia family. So, for all you pure townies out there, beware who you trust.


All mafioso have cover roles. All cover roles have a physical resemblance to the true character role. Who does an action-oriented human female resemble when you play Metroid music in the background?

:eyebrows:

[Greyblades]

TWO IMPORTANT NOTICES:

Replacements:
Motep has been replaced by Greyblades.
Death is yonder has been replaced by Choxorn.

Additionally, I have decided to extend this night phase to 8:00 PM EST tomorrow. Apologies for any inconveniences that creates.

Hmm. Here's hoping no-one was planning to night kill motep or this will be the shortest comeback ever.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Pizza needs to be lynched tomorrow because he's going to be persistent in pulling strings to kill who he wants. L-O-L at him being nice enough to let the town vote on whether to kill or not to kill his chosen suspect. THAT'S NOT HOW IT WORKS. YOU JUMP WHEN WE SAY YOU JUMP, OR YOU DIE.

beskar and frozen are scummy. Let's hear more from autolycus and let the beskar-winston debate play out.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I just want to wipe the slate clean. Lynch pizza, lynch beskar, and then let the TOWN do the scumhunting. And then lynch frozen. We'll see how it goes though.

[Askthepizzaguy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdebQ-y15Dg

This music Tincow?

Could it be because she was attacked by Ridley?

[Frozen In Ice]

Autolycus only suspects me because of a misunderstanding we had in a private conversation early on. We both came out of it suspecting the other one but just afterward Tincow killed Autolycus in the lynch.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Pizza needs to be lynched tomorrow because he's going to be persistent in pulling strings to kill who he wants. L-O-L at him being nice enough to let the town vote on whether to kill or not to kill his chosen suspect. THAT'S NOT HOW IT WORKS. YOU JUMP WHEN WE SAY YOU JUMP, OR YOU DIE.

:huh:

You haven't said to jump... I already pointed out, you haven't been decisive in what to do.

On my own, I've decided that there was something wrong with Winston, and put pressure on him. That led to him pressuring Beskar with a bluff that Beskar says is false enough to prove he's mafia.

Now, Winston comes up clean, you lynch Beskar, because that means Beskar is the mafia.

And how would you have arrived at such conclusions? Through townie collaboration, or my efforts?

Give me a break, Sasaki.

You want to kill me, let me crush as many mafiosi as I can before I go. At least give me credit for being freaking useful.

[Beskar]

Beskar practically ADMITS to having a kill ability here. If someone said they copied a kill ability from me, and I didn't have any, I WOULD NOT say "so what's the name of it?". DUH

It does if you are amused and they just call you a 'liar' if you say no. By giving a name, you can identify which of the night killers I am being accused of being, which would actually point at me at being mafia.

However, I am being accused of possessing a night kill ability not seen before and apparently has no name or description.

I am calling Winston out of his claim because it is false. That much is evident. I am telling him to 'reveal' this evidence which apparently makes me a mafia. I outright denied having any night kill ability, so "I won't tell you because you might have more" is an incredibly weak argument.

I thought that much was obvious, Sasaki.

[pevergreen]

I outright denied having any night kill ability, so "I won't tell you because you might have more" is an incredibly weak argument.

I thought that much was obvious, Sasaki.

I didn't pick that up in my read through, mind pointing out where either of you said that?


You want to kill me, let me crush as many mafiosi as I can before I go. At least give me credit for being freaking useful.
:yes:

[Choxorn]

You don't think there's any possibility Beskar is scum, regardless of Winston's role? You noted a few oddities about Beskar's responses just a few posts up... Surely if your only remaining objective is to kill Samus, you'd want to carefully consider all potential suspects for that role.

I'll agree that Beskar's reponse seems a little off, but Winston is by far the more scummy of the two.

I also have to say that, scum or town, Winston would never attempt a bluff like this if it had this low of a chance of success, so something is obviously up here. Maybe after Winston dies, it will be easier to see.

Alternatively, Winston, just reveal everything now. Pizza's already said he's going to kill you, so you have nothing to lose by revealing.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

What's supposed to have happened? Winston is scum and didn't steal a kill ability, and then decided to...?????????????

I think either beskar is scum, or some role is tampering with the results. Bus driver, etc.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Oh my. I love you Sasaki, and I hate you so much, at the same time.

You do know how to apply the pressure; I do think Beskar needed a kick in the hind end.

:bounce:

I can prove that Beskar isn't Samus, or aligned with Samus. Beyond that I have no idea right now.

I think his lead on Winston is correct; I ask you to trust me on that. If it is not, I really have no hesitation with lynching Beskar tomorrow.

This is stuff that I do not think should be delayed; but at the same time, whoever Beskar is, it's not Samus, and I can prove it.

[pevergreen]

This is stuff that I do not think should be delayed; but at the same time, whoever Beskar is, it's not Samus, and I can prove it.

Then I dont see why you shouldnt. Hes protected, so its not like getting nightkilled is a worry.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Then I dont see why you shouldnt. Hes protected, so its not like getting nightkilled is a worry.

This is a good point. I think a reveal is probably necessary.

I'm trying to get Beskar to say, because it would be more credible coming from him directly than me passing along the message.

He's playing a danged video game though, and I'm trying to grab his attention.

[johnhughthom]

He's playing a danged video game though, and I'm trying to grab his attention.

Well he seems to be struggling with very complicated ideas, like resting, yesterday he found it difficult to make his characters swing a stick. So he probably won't last too long with it.

[Double A]

Ooh, are we talking about Dwarf Fortress's adventure mode?

[johnhughthom]

Ooh, are we talking about Dwarf Fortress's adventure mode?

Like Beskie would play something that ugly... He's really very shallow you know.

[Double A]

No! Bad Beskie! Play Dwarf Fortress!

[pevergreen]

Well he seems to be struggling with very complicated ideas, like resting, yesterday he found it difficult to make his characters swing a stick. So he probably won't last too long with it.

I keep telling him to sleep.

I waited up for 90 minutes for him last night.

We better play tonight Beskar. I got a hankering for some trading.

[Double A]

Seriously, what game are you talking about? I wanna play, I only have one indie game left to beat.

[pevergreen]

I'm talking about EU3.

If you want an indie game, go for Super Meat Boy. Check out the arena thread.

[autolycus]

I actually came out of my pre-death conversation with Frozen pretty satisfied. It added up with what I saw re-reading the Rubicon game. Then a Hero was killed last night, and that made me suspect Frozen a lot more.
My opinion for all concerned is as follows: Meta-Ridley should kill Winston Hughes. If Winston's innocent, Beskar has some serious 'splaining to do.
Any other scum that aren't on Frozen's team should kill him. I'm pretty sure he is scum, and if he's innocent and you all kill him, then you're not killing other people, and that makes other people happy! :2thumbsup:

[Double A]

I actually came out of my pre-death conversation with Frozen pretty satisfied. It added up with what I saw re-reading the Rubicon game. Then a Hero was killed last night, and that made me suspect Frozen a lot more.
My opinion for all concerned is as follows: Meta-Ridley should kill Winston Hughes. If Winston's innocent, Beskar has some serious 'splaining to do.
Any other scum that aren't on Frozen's team should kill him. I'm pretty sure he is scum, and if he's innocent and you all kill him, then you're not killing other people, and that makes other people happy! :2thumbsup:

You're not supposed to tell them that part!

I highly doubt the scum will kill who we want them to, though.

[Greyblades]

Pizza is apparantly.

[Double A]

I meant the mafia :brood:

[Romanic]

<snip>

I can prove that Beskar isn't Samus, or aligned with Samus. Beyond that I have no idea right now.

I think his lead on Winston is correct; I ask you to trust me on that. If it is not, I really have no hesitation with lynching Beskar tomorrow.

This is stuff that I do not think should be delayed; but at the same time, whoever Beskar is, it's not Samus, and I can prove it.

If you can prove that Beskar isn't Samus, or in his team, why don't you do it right now?

I, for one, have increasing doubts on Beskar and it would save me some time, and worry, to hear what you have to say about Beskar's innocence.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Pizza is apparantly.

Yes, but you know who I am, and I have oddball win conditions which makes me more neutral than classic SK.

Actual, hardline mafia would have no reason to cooperate with the town that I can see; but hey, surprise me.

[thefluffyone93]

Well, I just came back from watching the Jersey Shore......
shoot me now please. Other than that, I really see no difference in whether Winston or Beskar is killed this night,
as chances are the one who survives this night would just get lynched.
But hey, I've been wrong before.

[TinCow]

I can prove that Beskar isn't Samus, or aligned with Samus.

Why would you want to? If you clear him now it's just going to make it more difficult for you to explain away lynching or killing him later in the game. Better to let him fend for himself here. I know we mafioso have died off a bit too quickly for you, but attempting to save Beskar here is just going to cause more of a headache for you in the long run.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Why would you want to? If you clear him now it's just going to make it more difficult for you to explain away lynching or killing him later in the game. Better to let him fend for himself here. I know we mafioso have died off a bit too quickly for you, but attempting to save Beskar here is just going to cause more of a headache for you in the long run.

I really can't tell if you're being serious here or not, so I'll assume that you're not.

If you actually want a response to this, try incorporating what I've already stated about myself and my intentions into your premise, rather than dismissing it out of hand. If you don't want me to dismiss your statements as rubbish, don't assume the same about mine.


If you can prove that Beskar isn't Samus, or in his team, why don't you do it right now?

I, for one, have increasing doubts on Beskar and it would save me some time, and worry, to hear what you have to say about Beskar's innocence.

There's a combination of factors. Samus/mafia wouldn't be in their right mind to keep me around in favor of anyone, even including Renata who wasn't a slam dunk at the time. Far easier would have been to lynch me. But that's an assumption. Secondly, when I revealed to Beskar, he didn't reveal me immediately to the town, as most ordinary townies or mafia would. If he were a Samus mafia he'd have an interest in destroying me, especially since I told him outright that was my mission.

There are writeup clues which prove that he was elsewhere when the Samus mafia and Dark Samus mafia were attacking.

His claim to me, which only happened under pressure, reveals that he has some abilities and they are verifiable. I can have him scanned to make certain, but I also see them in the writeup, so I don't need to.

I am almost certain Winston Hughes is Samus mafia or remaining Phazon. If he turns up Samus mafia, it's even more convincing that they are not working together, and Beskar's already not working with Dark Samus mafia. So what does that leave?

It fits his claim of Hero faction exactly.

Now, if Winston turns up town, I'll reconsider.

[Choxorn]

Well, I just came back from watching the Jersey Shore......
shoot me now please.

Okay. If you were willingly watching it, then I'll shoot you for willingly watching Jersey Shore. If unwillingly, I'll shoot you to spare you the long, painful braindeath.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I actually came out of my pre-death conversation with Frozen pretty satisfied. It added up with what I saw re-reading the Rubicon game. Then a Hero was killed last night, and that made me suspect Frozen a lot more.
My opinion for all concerned is as follows: Meta-Ridley should kill Winston Hughes. If Winston's innocent, Beskar has some serious 'splaining to do.
Any other scum that aren't on Frozen's team should kill him. I'm pretty sure he is scum, and if he's innocent and you all kill him, then you're not killing other people, and that makes other people happy! :2thumbsup:

If Winston is innocent, Beskar dies. If he's not, Frozen dies.

That's what I figure is the best path forward.

[thefluffyone93]

Okay. If you were willingly watching it, then I'll shoot you for willingly watching Jersey Shore. If unwillingly, I'll shoot you to spare you the long, painful braindeath.

My sister forced me to watch it......it was horrible.
Especially Deena, the clone of Snooki!
KILL IT WITH FIRE.

[Double A]

Your sister should be put on war trials.

[thefluffyone93]

That show is a crime against humanity, indeed!
But hey, lets ignore my torment and go back on topic.
I'll just cry on Chaotix's shoulder tomorrow in school.

[Romanic]

We don't have the same definition of "proof", ATPG. What you gave us ranks more as feelings/intuitions, it doesn't prove anything, but it's an interesting point of view.

[thefluffyone93]

So in the end, someone who we have doubts about is gonna die, and we get to read another brilliant writeup by chaotix.
I say thats a win-win.

[Askthepizzaguy]

We don't have the same definition of "proof", ATPG. What you gave us ranks more as feelings/intuitions, it doesn't prove anything, but it's an interesting point of view.

I'm not saying let Beskar off the hook; but here is what I am saying. We have solid leads on mafia here, and we got Phazon on the ropes. I'd say it is a pretty safe bet Winston is Phazon or Samus-ian.

Autolycus' lead on Frozen is too tempting to ignore, I'd like Frozen to respond to such.

I admit that my definition of proof could be a little looser than most, but it boggles my mind that Beskar could be Samus mafia. Not based on what I've seen and what I know. I'll eat my pizza hut hat if I am wrong.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

sigh, beskar probably isn't scum with the day 1 claim. I don't really know what went on in private chat and his scumminess could just be to pushing a bad case.

but you should kill frozen. Why would winston scum make false claims to beskar?

[Cecil XIX]

I really can't tell if you're being serious here or not, so I'll assume that you're not.

If you actually want a response to this, try incorporating what I've already stated about myself and my intentions into your premise, rather than dismissing it out of hand. If you don't want me to dismiss your statements as rubbish, don't assume the same about mine.

He is serious, but it isn't for your consumption. He's quite correctly reminding the town not to trust you implicitly.

[Askthepizzaguy]

sigh, beskar probably isn't scum with the day 1 claim. I don't really know what went on in private chat and his scumminess could just be to pushing a bad case.

but you should kill frozen. Why would winston scum make false claims to beskar?

I'm willing to re-check my logic before going ahead with this. Right now I am 75/25, kill Winston over kill Frozen. Here's my stream-of-consciousness on this subject:

I was told something that makes me believe Frozen could be mistaken for mafia. But it's so vague it's not really affecting my decision. What is affecting my decision is Winston's behavior itself. This isn't even a philosophical past behavior argument, which many players will disagree with. This is more of a "there is zero reason not to say" argument.

1. Winston says he can copy a kill power from Beskar, and, in saying so, he says it is a power that hasn't been seen in the writeups before.
2. Winston doesn't say such a thing until I contact him and suggest that I'm going to kill him tonight unless he reveals what the deal is.
3. Beskar calls him on it, says to prove it. Just say which power.
4. Winston hesitates, doesn't say, not even privately.
5. Several people ask him to say publicly, he refuses.
6. I ask him on MSN to say, and he logs off.

There is zero reason not to say. If he has Beskar dead to rights, spill it. You've even got extra time. If Beskar is mafia (my analysis says no, and Winston is trying to bring down a town power role out of sheer spite) then for god's sake man, SAY WHY. I'd be MORE THAN HAPPY to kill Frozen tonight if that's the consensus. He's not my top suspect for a reason, but i admit he is a suspect. I think Frozen should be given a chance to give his defense and explanation, since Auto can't be more specific, Frozen can. But Winston had his chance to out Beskar.

Remember, we're halfway through a night phase after an extended day phase. Winston waits this long to say Beskar is scummy because of PROTOWN reasons? And Beskar's being protected at night, so he's obviously not trying to maintain anonymity and vigilante kill him. My pepperoni-covered hind end that this has to do with legitimate pro-town reasons. I don't believe it for a second. But there's still time, I am still waiting for an explanation. Make it good, make it clear, make it make sense. I'm listening; prove me wrong. Just answer the question.

Why would Winston say such a thing as scum? I'll give you several examples.

If he's been nailed to the wall, he has nothing to lose. See: Hitman's gambit for what a cornered mafioso will do when he's caught in the early game. They will say and do anything, including what seems to be irrational, to mess with the town. If he's part of a greater mafia faction, like Samus team, he has every motive to try to drag down the night-protected Beskar. He can't murder Beskar at night, and so his only way to stop Beskar is with the lynch. It reeks of desperation and lack of specifics. It's also not what a townie would do in this situation; he would have and SHOULD have exposed Beskar if his claims were legitimate way back before there was even a go-nowhere tie involving three people, where we needed a suspect. No, he waits until after the tie, and still nothing. Waits until Dark Samus is lynched, and still nothing. This claim appears the instant I suggest he's about to die.

I call bull, and he has time to answer it too. Beskar's not going anywhere, he can be lynched tomorrow if Winston's tale is convincing enough.



He is serious, but it isn't for your consumption. He's quite correctly reminding the town not to trust you implicitly.

I doubt anyone in this game is trusting me implicitly. Even my biggest supporters say leave me alive for a couple rounds. That's a whole lot of trust I'm asking for.

[Cecil XIX]

I'm willing to re-check my logic before going ahead with this. Right now I am 75/25, kill Winston over kill Frozen. Here's my stream-of-consciousness on this subject:

I was told something that makes me believe Frozen could be mistaken for mafia. But it's so vague it's not really affecting my decision. What is affecting my decision is Winston's behavior itself. This isn't even a philosophical past behavior argument, which many players will disagree with. This is more of a "there is zero reason not to say" argument.

1. Winston says he can copy a kill power from Beskar, and, in saying so, he says it is a power that hasn't been seen in the writeups before.
2. Winston doesn't say such a thing until I contact him and suggest that I'm going to kill him tonight unless he reveals what the deal is.
3. Beskar calls him on it, says to prove it. Just say which power.
4. Winston hesitates, doesn't say, not even privately.
5. Several people ask him to say publicly, he refuses.
6. I ask him on MSN to say, and he logs off.

There is zero reason not to say. If he has Beskar dead to rights, spill it. You've even got extra time. If Beskar is mafia (my analysis says no, and Winston is trying to bring down a town power role out of sheer spite) then for god's sake man, SAY WHY. I'd be MORE THAN HAPPY to kill Frozen tonight if that's the consensus. He's not my top suspect for a reason, but i admit he is a suspect. I think Frozen should be given a chance to give his defense and explanation, since Auto can't be more specific, Frozen can. But Winston had his chance to out Beskar.

Remember, we're halfway through a night phase after an extended day phase. Winston waits this long to say Beskar is scummy because of PROTOWN reasons? And Beskar's being protected at night, so he's obviously not trying to maintain anonymity and vigilante kill him. My pepperoni-covered hind end that this has to do with legitimate pro-town reasons. I don't believe it for a second. But there's still time, I am still waiting for an explanation. Make it good, make it clear, make it make sense. I'm listening; prove me wrong. Just answer the question.

Why would Winston say such a thing as scum? I'll give you several examples.

If he's been nailed to the wall, he has nothing to lose. See: Hitman's gambit for what a cornered mafioso will do when he's caught in the early game. They will say and do anything, including what seems to be irrational, to mess with the town. If he's part of a greater mafia faction, like Samus team, he has every motive to try to drag down the night-protected Beskar. He can't murder Beskar at night, and so his only way to stop Beskar is with the lynch. It reeks of desperation and lack of specifics. It's also not what a townie would do in this situation; he would have and SHOULD have exposed Beskar if his claims were legitimate way back before there was even a go-nowhere tie involving three people, where we needed a suspect. No, he waits until after the tie, and still nothing. Waits until Dark Samus is lynched, and still nothing. This claim appears the instant I suggest he's about to die.

I call bull, and he has time to answer it too. Beskar's not going anywhere, he can be lynched tomorrow if Winston's tale is convincing enough.




I doubt anyone in this game is trusting me implicitly. Even my biggest supporters say leave me alive for a couple rounds. That's a whole lot of trust I'm asking for.

Even the obvious can bear repeating. I also encourage Winston to dispute the six facts you listed.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Even the obvious can bear repeating. I also encourage Winston to dispute the six facts you listed.

Consider this the seventh fact to dispute. Somewhere buried in my yakety-yak was a good point:

"It's also not what a townie would do in this situation; he would have and SHOULD have exposed Beskar if his claims were legitimate way back before there was even a go-nowhere tie involving three people, where we needed a suspect. No, he waits until after the tie, and still nothing. Waits until Dark Samus is lynched, and still nothing. This claim appears the instant I suggest he's about to die."

I want a logical response to this. I feel it's worth 10 times more than anything I've had to say about this game so far combined.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Did the death threat precede the whole thing?

Another bizarre thing is the "he doesn't name a power" as a trump card. If he fabricated all that he could make up a power name. He named his stealing ability, so, does he genuinely have a stealing ability?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Did the death threat precede the whole thing?

Yes, I can even tell you the time frame.

I sent Winston the following message, verbatim, yesterday at 5:04 AM my time.


Incoming.

Before I perform my kill on you tonight, mister Hughes, I will give you a chance to plead your case to me privately. Fluffy looks of scum, yes, but honestly... of those who tried to spare Renata's bacon at the last minute, I fear you the most. I also suspect your true motives the most. "You're too good at this game" and all that stuff was very flattering, but I truly feel it came from a place of deception and evil in your heart, friend Winston.

Why should I leave you alive? If you die, what is lost from the town? And, can you back up any claims you make? Further, if I do indeed decide to kill you, I must ask you to spill your data to either myself or Beskar. Whatever you know. If you are townie, I'd rather limit the damage.

Forgiveness please, but I do not trust you sir. If you are some super badass townie role, I will hold my fire and throw townie resources into backing up your claim. I'd also rather not see you get recruited, mister Hughes. Live as a townie, die as a townie.

Convince me, I'm listening and I have a day off

[Sasaki Kojiro]

The human memory is frail :(

I forgot he was on the pizza wagon, bah and the whole point of that was to catch scum on that wagon. Much like I ignored renata after putting her on my scum list and went after other people.

He should 100% be killed, beskar though your description of the affair was terrible. edit: no I just didn't read it carefully :p

[Askthepizzaguy]

Didn't see this edit


Another bizarre thing is the "he doesn't name a power" as a trump card. If he fabricated all that he could make up a power name. He named his stealing ability, so, does he genuinely have a stealing ability?

One thing that is bugging me is that if he is scum, then isn't he aware of other killing powers? He doesn't need to make up a name, just claim Beskar has it.

The trouble is when Beskar gets lynched and is revealed to not be what Winston says, then Winston dies. But it still removes Beskar, so that's satisfactory.

There's still a warning cloud of something is just not right here. I want further explanation, but in the meantime, pro-town Winston steals a killing power from Beskar, and doesn't tell anyone about it, at several key points in the past round. So I run through the logic-

Suppose he's recruitable and trying to become mafia. Okay, then he's got an anti-town agenda and a killing power and he's actively working against them in secret. Kind of hard not to say good-bye to that guy. The behavior adds up.

Suppose he's already mafia, that explains why he doesn't want to draw attention to himself but now he's already in the spotlight. He flinches and comes up with a way to incriminate Beskar so he will last longer, and make Beskar go away permanently. The behavior adds up.

Suppose he's townie and trying to fight for the good of the town. Now I run through the scenario, and I am baffled by certain decision points. The fact that only his death prompted his behavior is interesting but not totally conclusive- did he ever suggest Beskar needed to die? Even hint at it? It would imply that he might have been trying to get rid of Beskar without revealing.

I just want to see how there's a logical sequence of events coming from Winston starting the game as townie, all the way to our current situation. I'm missing pieces for that logical sequence to function properly. Maybe there's an explanation I don't know about.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

pevergreen would be one to look at if winston flips town. His "kill winston, if he flips town lynch beskar" post looks sketchy.

[pevergreen]

pevergreen would be one to look at if winston flips town. His "kill winston, if he flips town lynch beskar" post looks sketchy.

lay off me protecting my scumtown buddy.

I can see how he is playing it, if he is town. Not saying its a good thing...

[Winston Hughes]

This is all I have time for right now, but please see what pizza is trying to do here:


If Winston is innocent, Beskar dies. If he's not, Frozen dies.

That's what I figure is the best path forward.

He is desperate to kill me, because either way it gets him a free pass for tomorrow. When I show up innocent, the lynch turns on Beskar. If, on the other hand, I was to show up guilty, he's got another scalp to present to the mob.

Anyhow, since Beskar's lies are going to send me to my grave anyway, there seems no reason to let him off revealing his kill abilities before I die. As I've been saying all along, there is no townie reason for him to keep them secret.

[Askthepizzaguy]

This is all I have time for right now, but please see what pizza is trying to do here:

He is desperate to kill me, because either way it gets him a free pass for tomorrow. When I show up innocent, the lynch turns on Beskar. If, on the other hand, I was to show up guilty, he's got another scalp to present to the mob.

Anyhow, since Beskar's lies are going to send me to my grave anyway, there seems no reason to let him off revealing his kill abilities before I die. As I've been saying all along, there is no townie reason for him to keep them secret.

There's no earthly reason you can't name the ability you copied from him.

Let's pretend for a moment you're right, and Beskar is scum. Well? What's the evidence. What's your proof. Where's your answer?

I wasn't desperate to kill you; you're the one who created this situation. If you hadn't acted so bizarrely, Frozen would be my target.

Geez, man, dig yourself a hole.

"If on the other hand I show up as guilty" what is with this hypothetical? :laugh4: I can't believe I blew right past this. Is this an admission of guilt?

[Winston Hughes]

There's no earthly reason you can't name the ability you copied from him.

What's the point? You're going to kill me anyway. Let Beskar reveal his kill abilities while I'm still alive to contradict him.

[Romanic]

@Winston:

I agree with ATPG, there's no reason why you won't name the killing ability that you stole from Beskar. If you are telling the truth, you caught him lying so keeping the ability a secret serves no purpose anymore.

Your refusal to name the killing ability just make me think that you don't have a good answer. I thought a scum would be able to name at least one or two, but then, I'm thinking that you could be the remaining Phazon and that you only know one, using dark energy (like we've seen Dark Samus use in the writeups). And it wouldn't work to name that ability, not really.

Anyway, if you're Town, I suggest that you give us more than your previous post. It ain't difficult really, just name the ability you stole from Beskar. Can't see any drawback to it, if you're Town.

[Romanic]

What's the point? You're going to kill me anyway. Let Beskar reveal his kill abilities while I'm still alive to contradict him.

Bah, ATPG ain't going to kill you if a majority of us think you are making sense. If he did, he would be lynched outright.

And what happened to defending yourself fairly, as a townie? It's atypical of you to resign like this, before the end of the day. I'd be expecting more from you.

EDIT: And Beskar said he has no kill ability, so technically he contradicted himself. Just name the ability, sheesh.

[Askthepizzaguy]

@ Winston

You should be able to also describe the icon that the kill uses. For example, if someone claims to have Fire Strike, I'd ask them to say what does the icon look like. If they're lying I will know.

You're acting like you're a cornered mafia with your back to the wall, and the more you focus on me and Beskar, the worse it gets. Yeah, I'm a SK, we know that already. Beskar is a strange cat, he deserves to be looked at, but we're not talking about those guys, we're talking about you and what seems to be your overflowing bag of scum slime. Either make with the proofs or die knowing you could have done more to save yourself.

And yeah, if everyone tells me not to kill Winston, I won't. The whole reason why I contacted Winston was because I was looking for reasons NOT to kill him. Like I did with Seon. I don't like killing randomly, I want to kill Samus. I want to kill mafia, short of that. If someone can reveal something that proves they were too busy elsewhere to be mafia/Samus, then I move on.

If you're townie, Winston, I'm disappointed by your reaction. You're performing a suicide by dragon by being uncooperative.

[pevergreen]

Yeah, now you're just being unreasonable.

If you're going to die, theres no reason to hide the information.

How in your right mind do you think Beskar would come along now and open up so you can contradict him.

:no: Crazy talk.

[classical_hero]

Okay. If you were willingly watching it, then I'll shoot you for willingly watching Jersey Shore. If unwillingly, I'll shoot you to spare you the long, painful braindeath.
That was what I was thinking Why would anyone in their right mind watch that?

[Beskar]

There is nothing for me to say, justify or explain really. I pretty much said all I needed to say on this matter. :shrug:


The human memory is frail :(

I forgot he was on the pizza wagon, bah and the whole point of that was to catch scum on that wagon. Much like I ignored renata after putting her on my scum list and went after other people.

He should 100% be killed, beskar though your description of the affair was terrible. edit: no I just didn't read it carefully :p

No problem Sasaki, it does come across as very weird, and you can imagine my annoyance when some one keeps sprouting untruthful nonsense to try to make you look bad, and cannot even form a decent case on it. It is a good thing that Winston is so poor at his attempt, everyone can see him for what he really is, a fraud.

If Winston dies and is a town anyway, then there is still no reason to lynch me. Since I am not aware of any survivalist town roles with an ability. Those who have contacted me have been Hero faction or SK (Pizza). Then, if he does end up appearing as a Hero faction, it doesn't absolve the fact he had the worse accusation in existence with no shred of evidence.

[TinCow]

If Winston dies and is a town anyway, then there is still no reason to lynch me.

You and Winston directly contradict each other, therefore it is almost certain that one of you is lying. If Winston dies and is town, then he would have no reason to lie and frame you. I expect you're in for an exciting day tomorrow.

[Rebel Jeb]

VOTE: ATPG

[classical_hero]

We are still at night.

[Cecil XIX]

What's the point? You're going to kill me anyway. Let Beskar reveal his kill abilities while I'm still alive to contradict him.

If you don't, it'll still look like you were making it up even if Beskar actually is mafia.

[Rebel Jeb]

We are still at night.

:(...

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Beskar has already claimed to have no killing ability. So if you can show that you did steal one, that's all you need. "Waiting" for him to list his abilities is absurd.

[Renata]

The only non-killer in the writeups (other than the protector) is the person who roleblocked Grayblades. /is helpful

[Askthepizzaguy]

I think I can almost mark you off as innocent now, Rebel Jeb. :laugh4:

[Winston Hughes]

Beskar has already claimed to have no killing ability. So if you can show that you did steal one, that's all you need. "Waiting" for him to list his abilities is absurd.

Well, there's still a fair while to go today, and I was planning on waiting until later before telling what I know. I've given up hope of survival (and, thus, victory), so ATPG might as well kill me tonight. My proven innocence will at least show up Beskar for the liar he is.

But, since everyone seems so keen for me to reveal it right away...

On night two I used my Metamorph ability on Beskar, and gained the Plasma Cannon ability, which kills with a Fire-Based attack.

Of course, now that I've said this, the obvious response is that I had this ability in the first place, or that I learned it from someone else. So I don't see how it changes anything, other than to make Beskar's life a little bit easier.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I hate this whole issue.

[Greyblades]

Ditto.

[Winston Hughes]

I should add, for when I'm dead and proved innocent, that I have told the truth throughout, while Beskar has lied time and again. (I'll make a list later on, if I can be bothered).

[Renata]

Why? I'm quite enjoying it. Especially if it turns out I was right about Beskar and AtPG sittin' in a tree, etc. (Sorry, Winston, you being mafia would not be nearly as satisfying. I only had one little ping on you. Pity we never got to chat; if we had I'm sure there would have been more.)

[Winston Hughes]

I hate this whole issue.

This is what happens when the town allows itself to be led by a villain.

[Askthepizzaguy]

On night two I used my Metamorph ability on Beskar, and gained the Plasma Cannon ability, which kills with a Fire-Based attack.

Of course, now that I've said this, the obvious response is that I had this ability in the first place, or that I learned it from someone else. So I don't see how it changes anything, other than to make Beskar's life a little bit easier.

Describe the icon for me.

[Greyblades]

Fun though it may be, its starting to drag on a bit.

[Winston Hughes]

Why? I'm quite enjoying it. Especially if it turns out I was right about Beskar and AtPG sittin' in a tree, etc. (Sorry, Winston, you being mafia would not be nearly as satisfying. I only had one little ping on you. Pity we never got to chat; if we had I'm sure there would have been more.)

Stop doing that! Every time your posts imply I'm not one of your scum buddies, everybody assumes that I am. :angry:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

pizza, aren't there many other responses mafia can try when you threaten to kill them? Like just claiming their role and trying to seem innocent? Why would going all out in an attack on beskar be a natural response?

Probably the only way beskar will be lynched is by a winston town flip though.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Stop doing that! Every time your posts imply I'm not one of your scum buddies, everybody assumes that I am. :angry:

Why don't you ignore the dead mafioso and respond to the live serial killer.

[Winston Hughes]

Describe the icon for me.

Is that allowed?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Is that allowed?

lol, if you can describe it, you're driving pizza crazy by waiting to ask this.

[Renata]

Stop doing that! Every time your posts imply I'm not one of your scum buddies, everybody assumes that I am. :angry:

Is that so? Can't imagine why. :D

[Winston Hughes]

Probably the only way beskar will be lynched is by a winston town flip though.

You see how I've ended up here, then. From the moment I started seriously suspecting Beskar, I couldn't give way to his two-man shakedown with pizza. I gave him every chance to stop this from happening - to the point of waiting nearly six hours with the IM window open. I knew that going public would mean my death (one way or another), but just bending over while Beskar and pizza move from player to player pulling the same stunt was not something I could stomach.

[Askthepizzaguy]

pizza, aren't there many other responses mafia can try when you threaten to kill them? Like just claiming their role and trying to seem innocent? Why would going all out in an attack on beskar be a natural response?

Probably the only way beskar will be lynched is by a winston town flip though.

I am not sure, Sasaki. But if one was trying to avoid being killed OR being scanned, one might try to push the focus off of them and onto Beskar.

Why Winston waited this long to answer a simple question baffles me; the only thing I can see is that he's attempting to wait out the suspicion storm, and then defend himself, so we will change our minds and not kill him tonight.


As for can he describe it, we've already discussed describing other various abilities, such as the investigation abilities. There's also nothing in the rules saying describing it is illegal.


The rules are fairly simple; standard affair for mafia games.
-During the day, you vote for someone to be lynched, using the format Vote: Chaotix. If you want to change your vote, use Unvote: Chaotix first or else your original vote will be the one counted.
-You may NOT edit your vote out of a post. You may edit a post with a vote in it so long as the edit does not affect the vote.
-You may Vote: Abstain to show you are present but wish to refrain from voting.
-Vote: No Lynch is NOT allowed.
-Dead players can participate, but may NOT vote or reveal previous night actions or sensitive information they knew before their death.
-Private communications are allowed.
-Quicktopics, chatrooms, etc. are NOT allowed unless given express permission by the host.
-Dead players cannot communicate privately unless given express permission by the host.
-You may quote PMs from other players, as they can be forged. You may not post screenshots, chatlogs, etc.
-You may NOT quote PMs from the host or your role PM, unless given express permission by the host.
-You must PM all night actions to the host personally.
-If you have multiple defenses, you must choose one and PM that to the host; otherwise your defense will be chosen randomly.
-Clarifications to the rules will be posted by the host if perceived to be unclear. If you are unsure or think I might have missed something, please don’t be afraid to ask questions!

This is the only rule which could apply here. But he's not quoting, he's paraphrasing.

Also, for those that gain several defenses, note the second bolded line. Would be a wise idea not to forget this important point.

[Winston Hughes]

lol, if you can describe it, you're driving pizza crazy by waiting to ask this.

Really? I had no idea. :angel:

[Askthepizzaguy]

You see how I've ended up here, then. From the moment I started seriously suspecting Beskar, I couldn't give way to his two-man shakedown with pizza. I gave him every chance to stop this from happening - to the point of waiting nearly six hours with the IM window open. I knew that going public would mean my death (one way or another), but just bending over while Beskar and pizza move from player to player pulling the same stunt was not something I could stomach.

Oh please. You didn't answer a single question of mine. You kept talking to the guy you think is mafia instead of me?

Now you're playing the sympathy card and still stalling? You know who uses emotion over substance to get their way? Politicians.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

hmm, you know day 1 a few people were convinced that beskar was mafia (myself included). Then they tried to kill him and tincow went after him. But actually the didn't try and kill him...pizza did. Who is now buddy buddy. And tincow would try and get the opposing mafia lynched.

...
Man this thing just kills me.

[Winston Hughes]

Oh please. You didn't answer a single question of mine. You kept talking to the guy you think is mafia instead of me?

Now you're playing the sympathy card and still stalling? You know who uses emotion over substance to get their way? Politicians.

The difference was that you were definitely mafia. Until he started lying in public, I was unsure about Beskar.

[Renata]

@ Sasaki --

Me too. :) And I have this kind of grudging admiration for Winston's level of stubbornness. It's rather beautiful.

[Askthepizzaguy]

The difference is that you were definitely mafia. Until he started lying in public, I was unsure about Beskar.

Who else have you used metamorph on, Winston?

[Renata]

He stole my Force Corruption ability and he's going to make himself a little cabal of evil Jedi Sith GF townies.

[Winston Hughes]

Who else have you used metamorph on, Winston?

As I said, I used it on Sasaki on the first night, after which I sent him a PM asking what his abilities were (knowing that the true answer was "I don't have any").

[Askthepizzaguy]

As I said, I used it on Sasaki on the first night, after which I sent him a PM asking what his abilities were (knowing that the true answer was "I don't have any").

If you tell me who you are in private, and agree to be inactive tonight, I will scan you rather than kill you.

Otherwise this principled stand against cooperating with a serial killer sounds a whole lot like rubbish. People come up with some awfully bizarre and one-game-only principles when they're guilty.

[Winston Hughes]

If you tell me who you are in private, and agree to be inactive tonight, I will scan you rather than kill you.

Otherwise this principled stand against cooperating with a serial killer sounds a whole lot like rubbish. People come up with some awfully bizarre and one-game-only principles when they're guilty.

One game only? :laugh4:

I'm always like this. It's just that I'm not normally forced into being so public with it (remember Frodo?)

And, no, Mr Scummo, I will not reveal anything to you in private. Just go ahead and kill me.

[TinCow]

On night two I used my Metamorph ability on Beskar, and gained the Plasma Cannon ability, which kills with a Fire-Based attack.

And.... there we go. At last, Beskar is finally undone by his impatience in revealing me after N1. If he had just waited a single night to report his mafia partner's result, he could have at least claimed the 'detective' had scanned him. But he didn't, and his relationship with the 'detective' made no sense. And he got scanned by a townie for it. And now he's dead.

Like I said, mafia fratricide FTW!

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Secondly, when I revealed to Beskar, he didn't reveal me immediately to the town, as most ordinary townies or mafia would. If he were a Samus mafia he'd have an interest in destroying me, especially since I told him outright that was my mission.

I think town would be likely to reveal you. Why would mafia destroy you if he can influence you and isn't threatened by you?


There are writeup clues which prove that he was elsewhere when the Samus mafia and Dark Samus mafia were attacking.

Not all of the mafia have to attack.


His claim to me, which only happened under pressure, reveals that he has some abilities and they are verifiable. I can have him scanned to make certain, but I also see them in the writeup, so I don't need to.

The mafia have abilities.

I do have a concern that mesomorph sounds like a scum ability. I suppose it is possible that we are sitting on two scum. But mostly I'm leaning to saying pizza should scan someone or kill frozen, and then we should lynch beskar.

[Askthepizzaguy]

One game only? :laugh4:

I'm always like this. It's just that I'm not normally forced into being so public with it.

And, no, Mr Scummo, I will not reveal anything to you in private. Just go ahead and kill me.

I'm calling your bluff. If you hadn't acted so nervous and hesitant until now, this would be believable.

Good night, sweet prince.

[Renata]

Blah, Pizza, you know better than that. "Be inactive or else" threats only work when your target is actually threatened by it. You got lucky with me because I actually could NOT both be inactive and have Dark Samus out killing. If you're wrong about Winston, it is the trivialist of trivialities for Samus to simply refrain from killing for one night and extend the WIFOM about all of you for another day.

If you're that suspicious of him, just kill him and live with the consequences.

Edit: well, all righty, that works.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

That may be good too. I'm feeling happier and happier with "they're both scum".

[Winston Hughes]

I'm calling your bluff. If you hadn't acted so nervous and hesitant until now, this would be believable.

You really can't read me at all, can you?

[Askthepizzaguy]

You really can't read me at all, can you?

You claim that death is the end of the road for you, but you're not willing to describe an icon, or be inactive for a single night, to save the game for you.

Well mister Winston, I do believe one of two things is likely here.

1. You are indeed mafia, and you absolutely cannot be caught inactive tonight.
2. Your claim is at least partly true, and I take you at your word. That means you're a recruitable person with a steal ability and a kill ability.

You've given me no reason to leave you alive. No one should shed a tear for you, not one more than they would shed for me.

Read you or not, your story if true, is still enough to make you burn.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Oh he never did describe the icon.

[Reenk Roink]

Ugh, I am falling behind. From my jist of things, Winston is likely not team Dark Samus, though the cases on him being other things vary in other degree. This would have all worked out better if I had successfully killed you on the first night... :wall:

I don't get the case on Frozen on Ice at all, can someone make it in clear terms here?

Kill Beskar no matter what. Because even though there is an entire line of argument that he is nothing more than a mouthpiece, he is a major distraction. One of the 'good' townie deaths if he dies.

[Romanic]

I'm reading that Winston "stole" a power from Beskar. Is this right, or is it rather a copy?

In others words, according to you Winston, will Beskar still have the Plasma Cannon ability?

[Winston Hughes]

Oh he never did describe the icon.

Since you ask...

It runs diagonally from top right to bottom left, with the barrel (the thinner bit) bottom left. It's a silvery colour, with indented areas of dark red, on a black background. :bow:

[Romanic]

I don't get the case on Frozen on Ice at all, can someone make it in clear terms here?


Autolycus said he's fairly certain that Frozen in Ice is mafia, based on something he cannot discuss (because he's dead). That's pretty much it.

[Winston Hughes]

I'm reading that Winston "stole" a power from Beskar. Is this right, or is it rather a copy?

In others words, according to you Winston, will Beskar still have the Plasma Cannon ability?

Yes, he will still have the ability.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Oh he never did describe the icon.

Keep in mind, I am just looking for excuses not to kill this guy, because even if he IS a recruitable with steal/kill, it's possible for him to prove outright that he's not Samus. And it would even be possible to prove he's not the one doing the killing at night. All I want is a way to prove he's not Samus/corrupted pikachu/etc. Even if he is scum or potential scum, he's still not as high a priority target as the most powerful mafioso in the game remaining, or actively killing mafiosi, who are the ones who started out as mafia.

It doesn't matter if he's recruitable if the actual mafia are wiped out; he will be less powerful than the starting mafia and he's already exposed. They're a priority. He's less of a threat than the unknown.

[Winston Hughes]

Keep in mind, I am just looking for excuses not to kill this guy

:laugh4: You've spent the whole night looking for reasons to kill me.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

So you scan him, and winston stays inactive? Sounds good. Even if the mafia frame him they have to skip a kill.

[Askthepizzaguy]

:laugh4: You've spent the whole night looking for reasons to kill me.

I could have just killed you without asking questions.

As it stands, you're admitting that you're recruitable, have the power to copy abilities, and have a killing power, and that's if I take you at face value. Even if I decide not to kill you, this stuff is better off being known by the town, because that puts a huge dent in your ability to harm them if you do get recruited.

You're going to need to die eventually, like me; probably after Samus dies, and pikachu dies. But I'd be willing to put off such a death if you'd be willing to... be inactive.

[Romanic]

Maybe it's just me but if I stole a Plasma Cannon from Beskar, I would have kept my mouth shut about it and gone PEW PEW PEW on Pizza or Beskar tonight. :laugh4:

[Askthepizzaguy]

So you scan him, and winston stays inactive? Sounds good. Even if the mafia frame him they have to skip a kill.

The whole point of this is that a truly innocent townie has recourse, and, even if I'm dead wrong about everything, we either learn something, or there's one less death.

In fact, there's one less death that's very important to Winston; his own. Which he claims is his top priority. Why wouldn't he be willing to agree? Principles?

People are willing to die for their principles, and I'm willing to kill an uncooperative recruitable person with steal and kill powers. No matter what happens, everything I've done has been a good move this round.

Winston hasn't agreed to go inactive.