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Thread: Casual december game

  1. #2221
    This Space For Rent Member Renata's Avatar
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    Default Re: Casual december game

    Quote Originally Posted by Montmorency View Post
    A further point: ladd was pretty much UTR for almost everyone by D3; I do not believe he was expecting to die anytime soon while formulating his D2 content.



    Well, I encourage people to look at all the ladd posts I quoted above holistically and try to extract any patterns in how he discusses people. So for example in what you're responding to, Visor SRed:

    Taffy
    Dya
    HK

    Ladd rejected all of these.

    He rejected Taffy SR because Taffy has attitude, pushes, furthers the game - "completely opposite" what Visor says.

    He rejected dya SR because Visor's meta on dya is out of date (that's it).

    He rejected HK SR because he's posting the same as in Visor's Sorc game ("but i concede he may be a wolf").

    I can't tell you what it all means, but we can say he's wishy-washy on HK, hard-defending Taffy, and offering a very vague defense of dya.

    Well, yeah. I don't see how that adds up to Taffy and Dyachei being suss but Hollowkatt not. The distinction you're trying to draw doesn't exist. This is someone who will happily defend townies. Maybe you don't know that for sure, but I do.

  2. #2222

    Default Re: Casual december game

    Quote Originally Posted by Renata View Post
    Well, yeah. I don't see how that adds up to Taffy and Dyachei being suss but Hollowkatt not. The distinction you're trying to draw doesn't exist. This is someone who will happily defend townies. Maybe you don't know that for sure, but I do.
    Sure, see again his quoted reads list from early D2:

    my strongest villa reads are cape/vulgard

    then pizza/taffy (idk if i mentioned them but i really liked a string of posts they had on..some page. it was v genuine imo)

    then i villa lean a bunch of people but i could easily be wrong on them -csargo/monty/dya/boq/HK
    What he's doing with Visor at EOD is consistent with that: strongest defense for Taffy.

    HK is the one, of the three, he explicitly says "may be" scum however. And I expect that ladd did the typical thing and spread his teammates among tiers.

    So even if you think HK is scummy, he shouldn't be easily paired with Taffy or dya.
    Vitiate Man.

    History repeats the old conceits
    The glib replies, the same defeats


    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



  3. #2223
    This Space For Rent Member Renata's Avatar
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    Default Re: Casual december game

    Quote Originally Posted by dyachei View Post
    usually when ladd wolfs, he's quick to call me a wolf and he wasn't doing that when i questioned him
    Quote Originally Posted by dyachei View Post
    ladd, have you read my posts? do you have a read on me?
    Quote Originally Posted by ladd View Post
    I read them until last gif i posted

    You seemed villagery enuf
    This is easily w/w obviously. I'd like to read more from her on Ladd if there is any, but when she told me she had "questioned" him I wasn't expecting it to be just this.

  4. #2224
    This Space For Rent Member Renata's Avatar
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    Default Re: Casual december game

    Quote Originally Posted by Montmorency View Post
    Sure, see again his quoted reads list from early D2:



    What he's doing with Visor at EOD is consistent with that: strongest defense for Taffy.

    HK is the one, of the three, he explicitly says "may be" scum however. And I expect that ladd did the typical thing and spread his teammates among tiers.

    So even if you think HK is scummy, he shouldn't be easily paired with Taffy or dya.
    Ohh. Never mind. I think you at least in part were making a totally different point than I thought you were.

  5. #2225
    This Space For Rent Member Renata's Avatar
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    Default Re: Casual december game

    God dammit, I reverted back to pronoun habit with Dya. I'm so sorry. I'd like to blame my exhaustion but it's just habit. I'll keep trying.

  6. #2226
    This Space For Rent Member Renata's Avatar
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    Default Re: Casual december game

    I think that is a sign I should leave for a while though. I'm not thinking clearly.

    I have an appointment tomorrow that's going to take up most of the day and is possible it will run all the way through EoD. Not likely, I don't think, but possible. I'll leave a safety vote before I leave of whoever Vulgard is voting for unless I vehemently disagree. At this point that would be Dyachei.

  7. #2227

    Default Re: Casual december game

    Ender, Vulgard, I'm going to be gone for a good while, say 12 hours. But I'm going to be more active than in early game, towards the following promise: I'm going to catalogue every impression ladd offered of each player.

    That's a promise - TBD well before EOD.

    In parallel, please follow a division of labor and assemble every player's interactions with or impressions on ladd.

    An example of the kinds of documentation I'd like you to gather.

    Taffy
    Quote Originally Posted by Totally not Taffy View Post
    Do you agree with Ladd's assessment of Kagemusha and Montmorency? (p1771)


    Quote Originally Posted by EnderWiggin View Post
    Ladd calling out Visor's posts as wolfy but continuing to vote me is an interesting mood
    If Ender-ladd paired they deserve an award. Because their whole relationship was:



    Vitiate Man.

    History repeats the old conceits
    The glib replies, the same defeats


    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



  8. #2228
    Senior Member Senior Member Yeti Sports 1.5 Champion, Snowboard Slalom Champion, Monkey Jump Champion, Mosquito Kill Champion Csargo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Casual december game

    Quote Originally Posted by Raskolnikov View Post
    Visor (6): Ender, Taffy, Renata, Csargo, HK, Boq
    HK (4): Kagemusha, dya, Cape, Visor
    Ender (3): Ladd, Vulgard, Monty
    Vulgard (1): Amy

    EOD in 15 minutes
    Quote Originally Posted by Renata View Post
    The first comment was popcorn.gif; the second was Visor related I think.

    Ampharos wasn't relevant at the point I made that first comment. I was referring both times to the three last votes on Logic from Visor, me and Cape that put Logic as the lynch ahead of Ender. I think Ampharos by the time this happened was down to two votes and not in danger.




    wooflean to townlean on vulgard no idea why. I didn't see any reason to change that read in their iso given how much time seemingly went into arguing the opposite.
    This is accurate, but is it scummy? Let's be real here, you're trying to characterize that giving no reason for a changed town-read on someone you (Csargo) are heavily implying to actually be town (since Ender in the above argument is scum and *somebody* got shot by Pizza yesterday) is scum motivated. It just isn't. This whole comment from here onward is you calling me "weird" (TM), often literally. Pizza would fucking shish-kebab you for this post.

    My opinion on Vulgard changed throughout the course of the last day. He had several posts that dropped the hedgy wording and looked focused and interested and just real. I never got a chance to bring it up before real life intervened, and when I got back, the whole Pizza fiasco had happened and I lacked both time and motivation for putting together an iso to show why. So I just mentioned my switch on Vulgard in passing.

    I'm never going to apologize or explain away a focus on scum reads over town ones overall. I know it's not the meta, and I know it makes for an easy push on someone in some context. I'm still not going to change until and unless I become comfortable with it again.

    It is not scummy to focus on the scum.








    My arguments on Visor were hot trash. It was 90% tone read, strong-wolf paranoia, and Pizza sheepage, with just enough meat around the edges to hold it all together. The other two are not trash.



    "For some reason", seriously Csargo. You're looking at my iso as you're writing this, it can't be that difficult to figure out what was going on in my head. I am certain I put in writing multiple times at various points about how I was conflicted about whether or not Ender actually was cleared by Pizza. I switched opinions at least twice, and at the end of the day was in the mindset that I didn't want to take the chance of making a compete fool of myself by lynching him if he was cleared town and I was just too stubborn about my own reads to acknowledge it.

    Again here you are kind of TMI-ing Ender-wolf when if you are really reading my "weirdness" as scum-motivated, you should be giving at least a little thought to the idea that I might have been motivated by fear of pushing a lynch of a cleared townie.





    I was in a world where I'm seeing both Hollowkatt and Visor as scum, and treating Ender as not. Both of them had voted Ender at one point to self-pres, and I figured I could assume they would both go back on that bandwagon again if they needed to. This is why I originally switched to Visor from Hollowkatt. I wanted to put some distance between Ender's vote count and the two of them, and since I was already on Hollowkatt, the only way I could do that was by switching. If this was MU with automatic vote counts and easy refreshing of the page, I would have switched back to Hollowkatt and then gone back to Visor at the last second if it looked like they were trying to save each other by piling on Ender again. Since it's the org instead, I wasn't willing to risk getting sniped without noticing. When Cape voted on Hollowkatt, my mental accounting had it as needing one more reliable (meaning not Visor) vote on Hollowkatt for it to be worth it for me to switch. That last vote never came, so I stayed on Visor.

    If Ender is a wolf, going after me for yesterday's voting is 100% valid, because I did act to save him, and openly and transparently so. Doing so now, when he can still be town, and that's the only real reason in this entire post that you have for voting me? Nope.



    As mentioned above, it wasn't. I needed one more vote. I probably should have just asked for it.



    (Bolded in that last bit is mine.)

    I don't know, maybe you are just puzzled by me, but we have here a post that is half trying to turn "she's weird and I don't get her" into a scum read and half "she was obviously trying to protect wolf-Ender (who hasn't actually flipped wolf)" and I am having trouble believing that it's real.

    Right back at you buddy. vote: Csargo[/QUOTE]

    I think I did say the tr stuff was whatever. I just noted that stuff tbh.

    If the Visor read was 'hot trash' why did you move there? Instead of just staying on HK. Purely out of paranoia?

    I don't think I assumed anyone's alignment in what I said either?

    I have a high opinion of you. I was assuming you'd just throw out the pizza stuff as town, because there's no way we'd ever know who the shot actually was. I did see you say it was useless, but yeah I also saw the dya stuff as well. Then just go with your own reads, which were that all three of them were woofs in your eyes. So in a world where all three of them are woofs to you, your actions don't make sense to me. That's the majority of why I voted you, to see why you treated eod the way you did.

    If you were treating ender as cleared then lol me I guess. I really thought you wouldn't do that tbh.

    Unvote:
    Quote Originally Posted by Sooh View Post
    I wonder if I can make Csargo cry harder by doing everyone but his ISO.

  9. #2229
    Senior Member Senior Member Yeti Sports 1.5 Champion, Snowboard Slalom Champion, Monkey Jump Champion, Mosquito Kill Champion Csargo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Casual december game

    Quote Originally Posted by Raskolnikov View Post
    Visor (6): Ender, Taffy, Renata, Csargo, HK, Boq
    HK (4): Kagemusha, dya, Cape, Visor
    Ender (3): Ladd, Vulgard, Monty
    Vulgard (1): Amy

    EOD in 15 minutes
    Quote Originally Posted by Csargo View Post
    This is accurate, but is it scummy? Let's be real here, you're trying to characterize that giving no reason for a changed town-read on someone you (Csargo) are heavily implying to actually be town (since Ender in the above argument is scum and *somebody* got shot by Pizza yesterday) is scum motivated. It just isn't. This whole comment from here onward is you calling me "weird" (TM), often literally. Pizza would fucking shish-kebab you for this post.

    My opinion on Vulgard changed throughout the course of the last day. He had several posts that dropped the hedgy wording and looked focused and interested and just real. I never got a chance to bring it up before real life intervened, and when I got back, the whole Pizza fiasco had happened and I lacked both time and motivation for putting together an iso to show why. So I just mentioned my switch on Vulgard in passing.

    I'm never going to apologize or explain away a focus on scum reads over town ones overall. I know it's not the meta, and I know it makes for an easy push on someone in some context. I'm still not going to change until and unless I become comfortable with it again.

    It is not scummy to focus on the scum.








    My arguments on Visor were hot trash. It was 90% tone read, strong-wolf paranoia, and Pizza sheepage, with just enough meat around the edges to hold it all together. The other two are not trash.



    "For some reason", seriously Csargo. You're looking at my iso as you're writing this, it can't be that difficult to figure out what was going on in my head. I am certain I put in writing multiple times at various points about how I was conflicted about whether or not Ender actually was cleared by Pizza. I switched opinions at least twice, and at the end of the day was in the mindset that I didn't want to take the chance of making a compete fool of myself by lynching him if he was cleared town and I was just too stubborn about my own reads to acknowledge it.

    Again here you are kind of TMI-ing Ender-wolf when if you are really reading my "weirdness" as scum-motivated, you should be giving at least a little thought to the idea that I might have been motivated by fear of pushing a lynch of a cleared townie.





    I was in a world where I'm seeing both Hollowkatt and Visor as scum, and treating Ender as not. Both of them had voted Ender at one point to self-pres, and I figured I could assume they would both go back on that bandwagon again if they needed to. This is why I originally switched to Visor from Hollowkatt. I wanted to put some distance between Ender's vote count and the two of them, and since I was already on Hollowkatt, the only way I could do that was by switching. If this was MU with automatic vote counts and easy refreshing of the page, I would have switched back to Hollowkatt and then gone back to Visor at the last second if it looked like they were trying to save each other by piling on Ender again. Since it's the org instead, I wasn't willing to risk getting sniped without noticing. When Cape voted on Hollowkatt, my mental accounting had it as needing one more reliable (meaning not Visor) vote on Hollowkatt for it to be worth it for me to switch. That last vote never came, so I stayed on Visor.

    If Ender is a wolf, going after me for yesterday's voting is 100% valid, because I did act to save him, and openly and transparently so. Doing so now, when he can still be town, and that's the only real reason in this entire post that you have for voting me? Nope.



    As mentioned above, it wasn't. I needed one more vote. I probably should have just asked for it.



    (Bolded in that last bit is mine.)

    I don't know, maybe you are just puzzled by me, but we have here a post that is half trying to turn "she's weird and I don't get her" into a scum read and half "she was obviously trying to protect wolf-Ender (who hasn't actually flipped wolf)" and I am having trouble believing that it's real.

    Right back at you buddy. vote: Csargo
    I think I did say the tr stuff was whatever. I just noted that stuff tbh.

    If the Visor read was 'hot trash' why did you move there? Instead of just staying on HK. Purely out of paranoia?

    I don't think I assumed anyone's alignment in what I said either?

    I have a high opinion of you. I was assuming you'd just throw out the pizza stuff as town, because there's no way we'd ever know who the shot actually was. I did see you say it was useless, but yeah I also saw the dya stuff as well. Then just go with your own reads, which were that all three of them were woofs in your eyes. So in a world where all three of them are woofs to you, your actions don't make sense to me. That's the majority of why I voted you, to see why you treated eod the way you did.

    If you were treating ender as cleared then lol me I guess. I really thought you wouldn't do that tbh.

    Unvote:

    unbroken
    Quote Originally Posted by Sooh View Post
    I wonder if I can make Csargo cry harder by doing everyone but his ISO.

  10. #2230

    Default Re: Casual december game

    Quote Originally Posted by Raskolnikov View Post
    Ladd has been killed! He flips mafia goon.

    You may proceed.

    @Csargo, @hollowkatt, @Montmorency, @Ampharos, @dyachei, @EnderWiggin, @ladd, @Vulgard, @Boquise, @Renata, @Totally not Taffy, @Kagemusha
    lmfao nice follow up on my post

  11. #2231

    Default Re: Casual december game

    this means ender is town 100%

  12. #2232

    Default Re: Casual december game

    Unvote

    And Amy too
    which means Dya is town as well


    niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice

  13. #2233
    Senior Member Senior Member Yeti Sports 1.5 Champion, Snowboard Slalom Champion, Monkey Jump Champion, Mosquito Kill Champion Csargo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Casual december game

    wp vulgard
    Quote Originally Posted by Sooh View Post
    I wonder if I can make Csargo cry harder by doing everyone but his ISO.

  14. #2234

    Default Re: Casual december game

    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgard View Post
    You think so? The wolfread on Amy is contingent on you being mafia, which... you shouldn't be.
    ladd pushed logic, visor, ender, amy
    two of those flipped town, i am pretty sure ender is town based on how ladd pushed him, which makes me think amy is town too since wolves seemed to be power wolfing tbh

  15. #2235

    Default Re: Casual december game

    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgard View Post
    Idk, I've thought Amy is probably mafia since I cased her on day 2 and barely anyone has engaged with that case, at least while I was present.

    I agree with boq that dya/amy being same alignment is probably a fair assessment, and that's the reason why I want to go in their direction. I also pointed out when casing Amy that her townread on ladd was super contrived, and with ladd being a wolf this is even more noteworthy.

    Vote: Amy

    Probably best to go here first?
    tho it would feel pretty silly if i relented from a wolf yet again smh

    i think i will have to check on how ladd talked about amy tbh

  16. #2236

    Default Re: Casual december game

    Quote Originally Posted by EnderWiggin View Post
    I'm kinda putting Boq in the "Not now" pile for this post alone.
    this reminds me that ladd never answered (iirc) but monty answered for ladd tbh

  17. #2237

    Default Re: Casual december game

    Quote Originally Posted by Renata View Post
    Just going to note for the record that the dynamic most similar to dyachei-amy here that I ever saw corresponded to wolf dyachei/town amy. I think Boquise's conjecture that wolf!Dya would be inconvenienced by never being able to vote town!Amy is doing a lot of heavy lifting and could easily be wrong. And the other half (town Dya could never be wrong) is just uncharitable. If Amy's *that* obvious of town, then Dyachei shouldn't be the only one able to say so.
    renata is never paired with dyachei/amy for this post alone, and if dya/amy are town, renata's scum stocks are rising tbh

  18. #2238
    Senior Member Senior Member Yeti Sports 1.5 Champion, Snowboard Slalom Champion, Monkey Jump Champion, Mosquito Kill Champion Csargo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Casual december game

    Ender is never woof with ladd, based on my limited experience with ladd in Visor's Sorc game. ladd sussed all partners but one and I don't think that severely. At least not to the level that ladd pushed ender here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sooh View Post
    I wonder if I can make Csargo cry harder by doing everyone but his ISO.

  19. #2239

    Default Re: Casual december game

    yeah ender and vulgard cleared

    I kind of still want to go hk

    i'll be back later not feeling very good today

  20. #2240

    Default Re: Casual december game

    Quote Originally Posted by dyachei View Post
    yeah ender and vulgard cleared

    I kind of still want to go hk

    i'll be back later not feeling very good today
    What's the case on hk?

  21. #2241

    Default Re: Casual december game

    Quote Originally Posted by Boquise View Post
    Unvote

    And Amy too
    which means Dya is town as well


    niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice
    I'm gonna need you to convince me Dya wasn't just pocketing Amy.

    But I'm leaning the same way on Amy herself.

  22. #2242

    Default Re: Casual december game

    Quote Originally Posted by Csargo View Post
    Ender is never woof with ladd, based on my limited experience with ladd in Visor's Sorc game. ladd sussed all partners but one and I don't think that severely. At least not to the level that ladd pushed ender here.

  23. #2243
    Senior Member Senior Member Yeti Sports 1.5 Champion, Snowboard Slalom Champion, Monkey Jump Champion, Mosquito Kill Champion Csargo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Casual december game

    Quote Originally Posted by Visor View Post
    me and at least one of the blokes in the death pool of ender vulgard

    cmon man i need more than just feel good, explain why taffy could easily be v, explain to me why it doesnt stand out to you?

    taffy was in the 10er recent game here, caleld me socially awkward d1 and pushed hard for their beliefs as v, they have approximately zero of that in this game
    Were Visor's views on Taffy's town game accurate to anyone who knows them?
    Quote Originally Posted by Sooh View Post
    I wonder if I can make Csargo cry harder by doing everyone but his ISO.

  24. #2244

    Default Re: Casual december game

    I'm going to dump my brain and then dip again, will be back tomorrow (rl) to read reactions and anwer questions and vote.

    Here's how I read this morning:

    - Montmorency votes Ender
    - HK votes Dyachei
    - Renata pushes her HK case again
    - Montmorency links HK to Boq, tries to dissuade Renata
    - HK objects to pairing with Boq
    - Csargo calls HKs response oddly defensive, subtly reinforcing the pairing
    - Csargo makes case against Renata (looks like chainsaw)
    - Ladd pushes Ender again, pairs with Ampharos

    So at this point I see two worlds presented to me: HK/Montmorency/Csargo/Ladd vs Renata/Ender/Ampharos/Dyachei

    Vulgard then shoots Ladd.

    So I would like to kill one of the other three in that first group if possible.

    I have only played the whole of 1 day with Dyachei before, but their indignance over my push on Visor yesterday felt the same as last time. I think they'd have defended him harder if they'd known for a fact he was town. Also willing to sheep Cape here.

  25. #2245
    This Space For Rent Member Renata's Avatar
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    Default Re: Casual december game

    What were Cape's last reads?

  26. #2246

    Default Re: Casual december game

    Quote Originally Posted by Csargo View Post
    Were Visor's views on Taffy's town game accurate to anyone who knows them?
    Taffy has a very good tonal game as wolf.

    Their positioning does feel very good if wolf tho, which is different to how they were last time they wolfed against me.

    But Taffy is also a smart cookie and could have picked that up.

    If they do see something they find wolfy they push hard for it but it's not a guarantee. Taffy comes from my homesite so I have a lot of experience with them.

    That being said I could 100% be off the mark on them as they've snowed me before.

  27. #2247

    Default Re: Casual december game

    So yes Visor was right but it was a narrow view off too little meta. If that makes sense.

  28. #2248

    Default Re: Casual december game

    Quote Originally Posted by Cape90 View Post
    Alright so what worlds exist FMPOV

    Earth

    HK (or Kage)/Monty/Amy/x

    or

    HK (Kage)/Renata/Csargo/x

    Combination of the 2 above worlds likely
    This was Cape's last wolflist.

  29. #2249

    Default Re: Casual december game

    Quote Originally Posted by Cape90 View Post
    me agree
    This was to Visor saying that Me/Vul/Visor was v/v/v

    Might have been killed just because he was the only one peddling that.

  30. #2250
    Senior Member Senior Member Yeti Sports 1.5 Champion, Snowboard Slalom Champion, Monkey Jump Champion, Mosquito Kill Champion Csargo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Casual december game

    I have no idea whether hk and boq are paired, that's not really what I was pointing out. Out of everything that hk's been accused of this game, that seemed to annoy them.

    Also no idea what chainsaw means. If it's that the Renata post is a mess, then yeah. My main point on Renata is that, both EoDs look like someone who's concerned with how they're gonna be viewed in the aftermath of it all. If people don't see that, then I'm most likely wrong and Renata is just town.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sooh View Post
    I wonder if I can make Csargo cry harder by doing everyone but his ISO.

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