Swords in the Moon [Concluded]

[woad&fangs]

Not much to go on, but I wonder if AggonyDuck has a 9 or 10 rating. This could mean either he's either an assassin or a bodyguard, so I wouldn't want to FOS him yet, since he may be a valueable role.

vote: Yaropolk
That was a very overly-neutral statement. Wishy-washy statements allow the mafia to appear to be contributing while also leading the town in never ending logic circles.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Hmm interesting.

unvote:sigurd,vote:yarapolk

stupid voting rules! :angry:

[Beskar]

Hmm interesting.

unvote,vote:yarapolk

Just saying, the correct format is:
Unvote: Sigurd; Vote: Yarapolk

I added on my table earlier that you changed your vote, however, Andres might be nitpicking and count your vote still as Sigurd.

[TinCow]

As others have noted, there is not much in the way of clues in the write-ups. However, it will be useful to keep track of who is killing who. Here's my stab at it.

First, the rules list the roles as:


- 1 ninja master - 3 ninja : they get 3 kills each night;
- 2 traitors (loyal to Takeda Nobutora, Shingens' father : they get 1 or 2 kills each night;
- Takeda Shingen : has certain abilities (secret);
- 3 sword masters: they protect Shingen at night;
- 1 shinobi : pro-town, secret abilities;
- 2 geisha: pro-town,
- 1 secret role
- samurai - regular townies - some of them are more experienced in sword fighting than others.

The ninjas and the traitors are our mafia, likely two separate families. The powers of the pro-town roles remain unknown, but it's possible that some of them can kill at night. There is also the secret role which could be a serial killer.

N1 Deaths:
Khazaar - Killer repeatedly called a "shady figure." Decapitates target and wipes blade on kimono. Likely ninja.
spL1tp3r50nal1ty - Killer repeatedly referred to as a samurai, which would preclude the ninjas. Likely traitor.
Lord Winter - Killer specifically called a samurai, which would preclude the ninjas. Killer first attacked unarmed, then finished with a blade. Likely traitor. Worth nothing that Lord Winter was obviously a geisha, indicating that the town is down a power role right from the start.

N2 Deaths:
The Spartan - Killer specifically referred to as a ninja.
Iskander III - Killer specifically referred to as a ninja.
Shinseikhaan - Killer not referred to as either samurai or ninja, only "warrior." However, the killer decapitated his target and wiped his blade on the kimono. This is very similar to the N1 Khazaar death. Thus, likely the ninja killer of Khazaar.
Olavi - Killer not referred to as either samurai or ninja, only "dark shade." However, the killer first attacked unarmed, then finished with a blade. This is very similar to the N1 Lord Winter death. Thus, likely the traitor killer of Lord Winter.

Thus, we have 5 killers so far, 3 ninjas and 2 traitors. This matches the killing power listed in Andres' rules.

Ninja Larry: N1 - Khazaar, N2 - 'khaan
Ninja Moe: N1 - Did not kill, N2 - The Spartan
Ninja Curly: N1 - Did not kill, N2 - Iskander III

Traitor Dante: N1 - spL1tp3r50nal1ty, N2 - Did not kill
Traitor Randal: N1 - Lord Winter, N2 - Olavi

Two of the ninjas keeping quiet on N1 is not really remarkable. It is a common and intelligent tactic to intentionally refrain from killing. However, the failure of Traitor Dante to kill on N2 is interesting, as there are very few circumstances in which a mafioso will voluntarily not kill after he has started murdering. The usual reasons are (1) to make the town think he just died, (2) he didn't get his orders in on time, and (3) he was blocked. (1) is pointless this early in the game. (2) is unlikely since he was active on N1... usually people who are inactive as mafioso are that way in the beginning, not after they've already gotten involved in the game. That leaves (3). So, my conclusion is Traitor Dante was blocked last night.

We then have this post by Ichigo:


Vote:GH

This is not a random vote.

The above is explained if Ichigo was a role blocker and got a successful result on GH. Thus:

Vote: GH


[edit] Worth noting that Ninja Larry's kills are ambiguous enough in his identity that he could be the special role instead of a ninja. However, I will continue to refer to him as a ninja until more evidence comes up.

[Csargo]

As others have noted, there is not much in the way of clues in the write-ups. However, it will be useful to keep track of who is killing who. Here's my stab at it.

First, the rules list the roles as:



The ninjas and the traitors are our mafia, likely two separate families. The powers of the pro-town roles remain unknown, but it's possible that some of them can kill at night. There is also the secret role which could be a serial killer.

N1 Deaths:
Khazaar - Killer repeatedly called a "shady figure." Decapitates target and wipes blade on kimono. Likely ninja.
spL1tp3r50nal1ty - Killer repeatedly referred to as a samurai, which would preclude the ninjas. Likely traitor.
Lord Winter - Killer specifically called a samurai, which would preclude the ninjas. Killer first attacked unarmed, then finished with a blade. Likely traitor. Worth nothing that Lord Winter was obviously a geisha, indicating that the town is down a power role right from the start.

N2 Deaths:
The Spartan - Killer specifically referred to as a ninja.
Iskander III - Killer specifically referred to as a ninja.
Shinseikhaan - Killer not referred to as either samurai or ninja, only "warrior." However, the killer decapitated his target and wiped his blade on the kimono. This is very similar to the N1 Khazaar death. Thus, likely the ninja killer of Khazaar.
Olavi - Killer not referred to as either samurai or ninja, only "dark shade." However, the killer first attacked unarmed, then finished with a blade. This is very similar to the N1 Lord Winter death. Thus, likely the traitor killer of Lord Winter.

Thus, we have 5 killers so far, 3 ninjas and 2 traitors. This matches the killing power listed in Andres' rules.

Ninja Larry: N1 - Khazaar, N2 - 'khaan
Ninja Moe: N1 - Did not kill, N2 - The Spartan
Ninja Curly: N1 - Did not kill, N2 - Iskander III

Traitor Dante: N1 - spL1tp3r50nal1ty, N2 - Did not kill
Traitor Randal: N1 - Lord Winter, N2 - Olavi

Two of the ninjas keeping quiet on N1 is not really remarkable. It is a common and intelligent tactic to intentionally refrain from killing. However, the failure of Traitor Dante to kill on N2 is interesting, as there are very few circumstances in which a mafioso will voluntarily not kill after he has started murdering. The usual reasons are (1) to make the town think he just died, (2) he didn't get his orders in on time, and (3) he was blocked. (1) is pointless this early in the game. (2) is unlikely since he was active on N1... usually people who are inactive as mafioso are that way in the beginning, not after they've already gotten involved in the game. That leaves (3). So, my conclusion is Traitor Dante was blocked last night.

We then have this post by Ichigo:



The above is explained if Ichigo was a role blocker and got a successful result on GH. Thus:

Vote: GH


[edit] Worth noting that Ninja Larry's kills are ambiguous enough in his identity that he could be the special role instead of a ninja. However, I will continue to refer to him as a ninja until more evidence comes up.

Your assumption is wrong. I voted GH because I haven't seen him post anything.

[TinCow]

Your assumption is wrong. I voted GH because I haven't seen him post anything.

Then why didn't you say that the first time?

[Beskar]

Well, put it this way. If your assumption is right, you just alerted him to all the ninja and he is going to get lynched. He is naturally going to say that you are wrong.

[Thermal]

Then why didn't you say that the first time?

It's Ichigo, like he even requires to be serious.....

A leader he may be
he runs so wild and free
but not into battle
instead making mere prattles
as he curses his generals to death.

vote:TosaInu

Intuition, and no better way to remove myself from the game early on than for voting for the site owner. But perhaps a mafia site owner? :shifty:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Speculating about who might have a pro town role is rarely a good idea.

btw Beskar...are you now voting yarapolk?

[Splitpersonality]

Regarding my death.

It seems that my assailant (and murderer) was someone who chose to attack, with little honor, while my back was turned.

Poisoned weaponry is that of the ninja, and a ninja disguised as a samurai would not be difficult to manage.

[Csargo]

Then why didn't you say that the first time?

This is not a random vote just sounds so much better then because I haven't seen him post. Plus, I didn't think someone would misunderstand my vote. :shrug:

[TinCow]

Well, put it this way. If your assumption is right, you just alerted him to all the ninja and he is going to get lynched. He is naturally going to say that you are wrong.

Obviously, but in a game this large, some of the pro-town roles are bound to be doctors. If he's pro-town, he's in no immediate danger, plus a dead mafioso is more than a fair trade for a role blocker. In any case, Ichigo's role is far from determined and it's a useful method to pressure him to give more information on his intentionally mysterious vote.

[GeneralHankerchief]

I've posted a few times. I just don't RP well in mafia games. A lot of the game so far has been RP, hence I haven't posted.

[Beskar]

I think I found out why one of the victims have been killed, and a clue to who the killer is. All I will say, read a few of the comments during the night phase.

Also curse you all, I am meant to be doing other work, not thinking of why/what/when, damn distractions. :p

[Csargo]

I think I found out why one of the victims have been killed, and a clue to who the killer is. All I will say, read a few of the comments during the night phase.

Also curse you all, I am meant to be doing other work, not thinking of why/what/when, damn distractions. :p

Why are you giving vague hints? Why don't you just point them out?

Unvote:GH, Vote:Beskar

[The Spartan (Returns)]

I have small feeling that MY death wasn't random....

Well good luck to the living samurai, guess I won't be pulling anything this game ~:doh:

[Beskar]

Ok, I will say it.

Unvote: Abstain; Vote: Stephen Asen


Reasons?:

In the first killing, it was noticeable that some one didn't do a kill.

In the night-phase, Olavi posted:

I say it here too. This samurai will be absent for two days and then I'll have time to play.:bow:

Olavi got killed, some one must have thought him being absence from the game would be a thing, and didn't feel guilty killing him off as he won't be here, compared to some one who is playing.

Andres later says:

Orders I must get
from lazy slackers with roles
patience is virtue

Some one obviously not posted their kill in for their role. Who can it be?

I read further on, to see who posted for any clues.



Don't worry, my friend. Death is not the end, it is just another beginning. :bow:

~:Puts the pen aside listens to the grim news that has happened in his absence :~

He posted about Death (possibly that of his victim)
He hasn't been playing hence his absence, hence why he missed posting in his kill and possibly did not kill in the first night phase as well and just coming into the game on the last page and seeing Olavi's post and decided he would do for a victim as he will stop playing: "I know, I will target him, he is leaving anyway so won't be here".


I would not recommend killing all the experienced people since it won't solve the problem (not all of the assassins are experienced).
Why he might target lurkers/absent peoples opposed to those who are posting.

ALSO: Andres posted the end of turn, after his post, when it was due to finish at 30 minutes past, which must mean all the roles were accounted for.

[El Diablo]

Vote Stephen Asen

Spinder sences tingling - no other reason.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I wonder what AggonyDuck thinks of stephen asen.

[Beefy187]

I have small feeling that MY death wasn't random....

Well good luck to the living samurai, guess I won't be pulling anything this game ~:doh:

What a shame... I really wanted to witness the legendary "Pull the Spartan" :shame:

[Beskar]

I have small feeling that MY death wasn't random....

My guess is they targeted you as you voted for yourself.

As for this pages table -

Stephen Asen 4 Beskar, El Diablo, LittleGrizzly, Gregoshi

GeneralHankerchief 2 TinCow, Ichigo
Yaropolk 2 woad&fangs, Sasaki Kojiro

TinCow 1 YLC
Beefy187 1 Stephen Asen
TosaInu 1 Thermal Mercury
YLC 1 Glenn

Abstain 2

Rhyfelwyr
AggonyDuck

[FactionHeir]

TC:
My view on the killings varies a bit from yours.

My categories:
N1:
Khazaar - Serial Killer
spL1tp3r50nal1ty - Ninja
Lord Winter - Traitor

N2 Deaths:
The Spartan - Ninja
Iskander III - Ninja
Shinseikhaan - Traitor
Olavi - Serial Killer

So from my thinking, the traitor is experienced, the ninjas and serial killer are new players or TWC players.

[Beefy187]

Did the Ninjas forget to put their kills in for Night 1?

If so, we should invest in voting for the lurkers

[Beskar]

btw Beskar...are you now voting yarapolk?

Sorry, just saw this statement. I am not, as I posted, I think there are enough reasons to bump off Stephen Asen legitimately. Very strong circumstance evidence is usually a give-away.

[ULC]

I believe discussing who is veteran and who is new is nonsensical. ScottishRanger was new to mafia, but as can be attested, he played wonderfully and was extremely talented. One can also point out mafia vets who lack skill or good play and may behave as if they are new.

If that works, so what if we know the relative skill level of people playing? That won't necessarily help capture the mafia faster, because they would switch how they kill.

To me it's a bunch of pointless talking, and it looks scummy to me - focusing on discussion that doesn't produce anything yet looks like it's helpful.

FoS: All those who are discussing it, from on and hence forth

Unvote: Abstain
Vote: TinCow

A placement vote for one of those doing it - I shall follow it up by voting the originator and the one who took it and began to expound upon it.

[LittleGrizzly]

Beskar has made some excellent points, whilst it could all be coincidence i really don't see a better lynch for today... because of our big numbers it will take a few night phases* before the conversation can provide more clues...

*well im assuming it will...

[LittleGrizzly]

Forgot to Vote Stephen Asen in my last post...

Stephen Asen 3 Beskar, El Diablo, LittleGrizzly
Yaropolk 2 woad&fangs, Sasaki Kojiro

TinCow 1 YLC
Beefy187 1 Stephen Asen
GeneralHankerchief 1 TinCow
Beskar 1 Ichigo
TosaInu 1 Thermal Mercury

[Csargo]

I believe discussing who is veteran and who is new is nonsensical. ScottishRanger was new to mafia, but as can be attested, he played wonderfully and was extremely talented. One can also point out mafia vets who lack skill or good play and may behave as if they are new.

If that works, so what if we know the relative skill level of people playing? That won't necessarily help capture the mafia faster, because they would switch how they kill.

To me it's a bunch of pointless talking, and it looks scummy to me - focusing on discussion that doesn't produce anything yet looks like it's helpful.

FoS: All those who are discussing it, from on and hence forth

Unvote: Abstain
Vote: TinCow

A placement vote for one of those doing it - I shall follow it up by voting the originator and the one who took it and began to expound upon it.

TC usually analyses the kills that's not really scummy behavior imo.

Unvote:Beskar, Vote:GH

The RPing was only during the first night from what I noticed the rest has been discussion, except for the haiku's but those aren't really rping.

[PershsNhpios]

(I thank all the players who are already analysing the game with depth and hindsight - this is why I enjoy the games so much, and such enjoyable writing has been missing from the Gameroom!)

I am actually sorry that my duel came out of the hat... I didn't suspect Northnovas, I just despised his reason for voting me.
Och, ah well, I enjoyed the write-up very much, Andres.

Now, of all the current suspects being bandwagoned and attacked, I am curious of none.
The players I am likely to disapprove of are those who are very swift to move in on the prospect of a bandwagon started by prominent players such as Sasaki.
This means that I would suspect Beskar, but being a new player put in the same embarrassing position that I was in Capo II, I understand his behaviour and choices.

This may be pointless discussion, YLC, but it keeps the game alive and it is what I enjoy most about it - the mystery.
Until you come up with a better reason for voting TinCow;

Vote: YLC

[Beefy187]

(I thank all the players who are already analysing the game with depth and hindsight - this is why I enjoy the games so much, and such enjoyable writing has been missing from the Gameroom!)

I am actually sorry that my duel came out of the hat... I didn't suspect Northnovas, I just despised his reason for voting me.
Och, ah well, I enjoyed the write-up very much, Andres.

Now, of all the current suspects being bandwagoned and attacked, I am curious of none.
The players I am likely to disapprove of are those who are very swift to move in on the prospect of a bandwagon started by prominent players such as Sasaki.
This means that I would suspect Beskar, but being a new player put in the same embarrassing position that I was in Capo II, I understand his behaviour and choices.

This may be pointless discussion, YLC, but it keeps the game alive and it is what I enjoy most about it - the mystery.
Until you come up with a better reason for voting TinCow;

Vote: YLC

Out of interest, whats you combat rating?

[Gregoshi]

Did the Ninjas forget to put their kills in for Night 1?

If so, we should invest in voting for the lurkers
<Sadako looks surprised and speaks in a loud, harsh whisper>

Lord Beefy! What are you doing here?! You are supposed to be in the poetry garden where I left you. Remember? You were going to pretend to be a haiku with a limp? I already lost Atpg and the Pineapple Samurai. I can't lose you too! I'll starve! Back to the garden with you, and remember, you are lame.

<Sadako looks at those gathered.>

Some of you speak with wisdom behind your words, at least it seems to me. I know what foolish words are and I don't recognize any of yours, so they must be wise. My Master once said, "Sadako, you are as dumb as a stick and twice as pretty. Remember these words: a hole is not empty, for an answer lies within." I saw many holes yesterday. One had ants, but that is besides the point. Those ants made that hole, because none of us is able to dig a hole that small. The first night there was a hole in the assassinations, and despite Stephen Asen's lack of mandibles and antenae...and multi-faceted eyes, four legs short and no thorax worth mentioning, I think he made that hole. And that is the hole truth as I see it. I guess the ants were not besides the point after all. Clever fellows they are.

Therefore:

Vote: Stephen Asen

If only your name had food in it you could have been spared. Spared...beefy...

<Sadako heads off in the direction of the poetry garden>

===========================

Stephen Asen 4 Beskar, El Diablo, LittleGrizzly, Gregoshi
Yaropolk 2 woad&fangs, Sasaki Kojiro

TinCow 1 YLC
Beefy187 1 Stephen Asen
GeneralHankerchief 2 TinCow, Ichigo
TosaInu 1 Thermal Mercury
YLC 1 Glenn

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Yellow bLossom
bee spears bee
blossom Cares not



Vote: GeneralHankerchief

You, my dear founder, ARE too quiet -- even though little was said on the night phases, your daywork is only a vote of "present" thus far. Thoughts?



As my haiku-ish opening suggests, YLC, I find your challenge frivolous and a pointless waste of Arach's resources. You seem very non-mafia, but all this duel will net us is one less samurai. Still, no bushi can refuse such a challenge.

How about I start with No Design No Conception and flow into the Red Leaves Cut? I will finish it cleanly from there.

[woad&fangs]

GH is currently reffereeing (sp?) a PvP battle for Last of the Romans. His lack of activity can be at least partially explained by that. Personally, I would expect GH to be more active if he had a role.

[AggonyDuck]

Vote: Abstain

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Okay, w&f, I'll give him the botd and I'll

Unvote: GeneralHankerchief

Let's hear from Stephen

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Vote: Abstain

What do you think of stephen asen?

[Beskar]

What do you think of stephen asen?
Out of curiosity.

1) Why are you so keen on his opinion?
2) Why did you vote for Sigurd?

[TinCow]

I am actually sorry that my duel came out of the hat... I didn't suspect Northnovas, I just despised his reason for voting me.
Och, ah well, I enjoyed the write-up very much, Andres.

Can you state whether your battle rating increased as a result of the victory? It might be good to know whether this is a standard thing or something less ordinary.

[Askthepizzaguy]

[edit]Also, ATPG is still listed as alive, which I believe is an error.

Given how atrocious I am feeling at the moment :sick: :sick: :sick: Removing me from the alive list may not be that far off the mark. When I am feeling better, can someone get me caught up. :shame:

[Beefy187]

<Sadako looks surprised and speaks in a loud, harsh whisper>

Lord Beefy! What are you doing here?! You are supposed to be in the poetry garden where I left you. Remember? You were going to pretend to be a haiku with a limp? I already lost Atpg and the Pineapple Samurai. I can't lose you too! I'll starve! Back to the garden with you, and remember, you are lame.

<Sadako looks at those gathered.>

Some of you speak with wisdom behind your words, at least it seems to me. I know what foolish words are and I don't recognize any of yours, so they must be wise. My Master once said, "Sadako, you are as dumb as a stick and twice as pretty. Remember these words: a hole is not empty, for an answer lies within." I saw many holes yesterday. One had ants, but that is besides the point. Those ants made that hole, because none of us is able to dig a hole that small. The first night there was a hole in the assassinations, and despite Stephen Asen's lack of mandibles and antenae...and multi-faceted eyes, four legs short and no thorax worth mentioning, I think he made that hole. And that is the hole truth as I see it. I guess the ants were not besides the point after all. Clever fellows they are.

Therefore:

Vote: Stephen Asen

If only your name had food in it you could have been spared. Spared...beefy...

<Sadako heads off in the direction of the poetry garden>

===========================

Stephen Asen 4 Beskar, El Diablo, LittleGrizzly, Gregoshi
Yaropolk 2 woad&fangs, Sasaki Kojiro

TinCow 1 YLC
Beefy187 1 Stephen Asen
GeneralHankerchief 2 TinCow, Ichigo
TosaInu 1 Thermal Mercury
YLC 1 Glenn

Any sensible Japanese will know, not to mess with Sadako :clown:
http://www.bilegrip.com/var/www/html/images/sadako-1.jpg

[PershsNhpios]

TinCow;

No, I have received no information that it has increased.
No doubt because Northnovas and I were similar in skill, for which reason the fight was challenging to both contestants.

If I fluked a victory over someone stronger, then I believe the skill increases.

Beefy;

Why would you like to know?
I won't disclose anything because I don't know if that can be revealed.

It is a minor 'gamebreaker' if everyone spews forth their battle rating on request.

[Beskar]

Page 19's table -


Stephen Asen 10 Beskar, El Diablo, LittleGrizzly, Gregoshi, Reenk Roink, pevergreen, AggonyDuck, Tristan de Castelreng, Beefy187, Death is yonder

GeneralHankerchief 2 TinCow, Ichigo
Yaropolk 2 woad&fangs, Sasaki Kojiro

TinCow 1 YLC
Beskar 1 Stephen Asen
TosaInu 1 Thermal Mercury
YLC 1 Glenn

Abstain 1

Rhyfelwyr



Argument against Stephen Asen (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2217361&postcount=517)

[Prince Cobra]

Ok, I will say it.

Unvote: Abstain; Vote: Stephen Asen


Reasons?:

In the first killing, it was noticeable that some one didn't do a kill.

In the night-phase, Olavi posted:


Olavi got killed, some one must have thought him being absence from the game would be a thing, and didn't feel guilty killing him off as he won't be here, compared to some one who is playing.

Andres later says:


Some one obviously not posted their kill in for their role. Who can it be?

I read further on, to see who posted for any clues.



He posted about Death (possibly that of his victim)
He hasn't been playing hence his absence, hence why he missed posting in his kill and possibly did not kill in the first night phase as well and just coming into the game on the last page and seeing Olavi's post and decided he would do for a victim as he will stop playing: "I know, I will target him, he is leaving anyway so won't be here".


Why he might target lurkers/absent peoples opposed to those who are posting.

ALSO: Andres posted the end of turn, after his post, when it was due to finish at 30 minutes past, which must mean all the roles were accounted for.


Strange you say that. Look at my record and you shall see I am not that stupid to boast with it + I had plenty of time to send my supposed orders earlier (I was back for lunch;) + I doubt Andres would have been ready with the chapter so quickly (about 4-6 minutes from my post, probably less depending when he had read it).

Second, there are 3 other ninjas + I doubt kills have anything in common with the presence of the ninjas.

ABout Olavi: I am glad he died, because he is one of the traitors. Look at his name! Are you his mate? (I doubt the triator was Northnovas because he said his name without much thinking and after the story about the Takeda's father was revealed)

Maybe you are, maybe you are not. But the way you twix my words is indeed suspicious and quite sufficient to make you Ninja. You simply saw that I have rushed into a discussion and decided to attack me.



Unovote: Beefy
Vote: Beskar

[Prince Cobra]

Stephen Asen 4 Beskar, El Diablo, LittleGrizzly, Gregoshi

GeneralHankerchief 2 TinCow, Ichigo
Yaropolk 2 woad&fangs, Sasaki Kojiro

TinCow 1 YLC
Beskar 1 Stephen Asen
TosaInu 1 Thermal Mercury
YLC 1 Glenn

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I see.


Dear Nakayima,
Dear Watanabe,


Many years have passed since my ungrateful son has taken control over the Takeda clan.

Revenge is a dish best served cold, they say.

Messengers brought me alarming reports about our clan. My foolish son is drawing heavily on our resources and it seems like he will eventually lose the war against the Uesugi.

You must take action, before it's too late! My son is unaware about your true loyalty.

Bring me the head of the usurper, Takeda Shingen! Once he has been taken care of, I will take control over the Takeda clan and I will appoint the misguided Nobushige as my heir!

Keigu,

So one of the betrayers is named "watanabe" (like Olavi), Olavi was returning home with his sword and wakizashi before he was killed, and olavi made a sig for andres (and possibly got a role in return). The others killed were on guard duty.

[Beskar]

I doubt Andres would have been ready with the chapter so quickly.

All he had to do was fill in the blanks He properly had it all written up ready and just waited for names.



ABout Olavi: I am glad he died

Dum dee dumm...



because he is one of the traitors.
*was kkilled during the night phase.



You simply saw that I have rushed into a discussion and decided to attack me.
Actually, I went back and suspected you later. I thought there was something suspicious about Olavi, which made me go and look. Your timing was simply impeccable for stringing my theory together, which is why you was implicated. It is a big bunch of coincidences which made me suspect you.


Unovote: Beefy
Vote: Beskar
Pure revenge vote. :p

[Prince Cobra]

All he had to do was fill in the blanks He properly had it all written up ready and just waited for names.
Really? As far as I know a single name is enough for the orders. This is not IH, please.










Pure revenge vote. :p

Yes, it is, though it is backed by your persistent attempts to discredit me for nothing. Isn't it quite strange the way you twix a single death poem? :bow:

You are either Ninja or traitor or over enthusaisthic samurai.

[Beskar]

So one of the betrayers is named "watanabe" (like Olavi), Olavi was returning home with his sword and wakizashi before he was killed, and olavi made a sig for andres (and possibly got a role in return). The others killed were on guard duty.

Northnovas was also called by that name. It is not wrong to presume there are multiple instances of names and the method of death could be due which character did it. The guard duty kills being that of ninja. We can only learn more about that from seeing more kills.



You are either Ninja or traitor or over enthusaisthic samurai.

That if any of them. Would be interesting to see though if I am actually right or not.

[Prince Cobra]

*was kkilled during the night phase.




I am not aware there is a rule that protects the traitors from the swords of the Ninjas... :beam:

[Prince Cobra]

Northnovas was also called by that name. It is not wrong to presume there are multiple instances of names and the method of death could be due which character did it. The guard duty kills being that of ninja. We can only learn more about that from seeing more kills.



That if any of them. Would be interesting to see though if I am actually right or not.

More than two with the same name? This will be indeed weird. For me one of the traitors is finished during the night.

[Beskar]

I am not aware there is a rule that protects the traitors from the swords of the Ninjas... :beam:

Correct, but we don't know the kills styles just yet and true meanings of death in this early phase.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Northnovas was also called by that name. It is not wrong to presume there are multiple instances of names and the method of death could be due which character did it. The guard duty kills being that of ninja. We can only learn more about that from seeing more kills.


The ninja's seem to kill those on guard duty while the traitors kill in the victims room. However:


Watanabe Yumi (Olavi) entered his room. He was tired and in dire need of some sleep. He quickly undressed himself, placed his katana and his wakizashi in a corner of the room and went to bed.

Would indicate that he was doing something that night. Combined with the others it is a reasonable assumption. Perhaps next night will reveal more.

[Prince Cobra]

The ninja's seem to kill those on guard duty while the traitors kill in the victims room. However:



Would indicate that he was doing something that night. Combined with the others it is a reasonable assumption. Perhaps next night will reveal more.

Sasaki, I think it is just the opposite. The murderer of Shinseikhaan and in night 1 is one person/1 team. Both stabbed in the back (we know that in the first ), that's nice for a traitor + in the first he was a samurai.

Edited: No, they are not. The previous backstab was with shuriken, and the present one is with sword. Therefore, we have 1 traitor kill(Shinsei) and 1 ninja kill (spL1tp3r50nal1ty). They both backstab, which confused me. + look at the Ninja above Olavi's death! INMHO Olavi was the traitor!

[pevergreen]

I will await my master's words of wisdom. :bow:

[Reenk Roink]

Forgot to Vote Stephen Asen in my last post...

Vote: Stephen Asen

:stwmean: Master says double his vote as default position. :bow:

[PershsNhpios]

I never like to draw information from write-ups, because I fear the idea of chasing wild geese.

However, I have noticed one thing which I have not seen remarked upon yet.

Murders follow the pattern of hours.

The hour of the rat was reported followed by that of the ox; could the hour of the rat stand for the traitors?

(Forgive me if this was already mentioned somewhere.)

EDIT: Note, Sasaki, that I killed a Watanabe in the duel.

[Ignoramus]

Still too little to go on for me.

Vote: Abstain
Challenge: Ichigo

Something about his accusation of GH doesn't sound right.

[pevergreen]

Vote: Stephen Asen

:bow:

[Death is yonder]

Ignoramus, it would be better if you didn't challenge people but vote for them. Firstly, if I am not wrong challenges can be denied. Whilst it makes people seem a tad suspicious, valuing their life too much, defense of their persons right to live should be fine, to a certain extent. Voting is more certain, the lynch is guaranteed (i guess) if the person receives the most votes, challenges however, are only a 25% chance of being selected due to randomness. Furthermore, if we knew someone was likely scum, we would vote for him, not send a high battle rating samurai to go and duel him.

About the topic of battle ratings, I believe that it would be unlikely for Andres to not balance out all of these lovely goodies with Ninjas/Traitors with high battle ratings. After all, it would be a mockery if all of them had low battle ratings, they would be scared to even try a challenge attempt. These scum with high battle ratings are also unlikely to be revealed upon duel won. The duel of Glenn Vs Northnovas shows that duel results are rather ambiguous, it is this ambiguity that would allow the scum with high battle ratings to strike with impunity, albeit not rampantly. They would likely go around claiming the other person a tad suspicious and in the name of honor, the other samurai would accept to clear his name. If you take a look at Reenk's settlement game, upon a duel, the roles of the respective 2 would be revealed. Eg: Farmer swing hoe at priest, both unskilled, a mockery of the fine arts blah blah etc. Here, the write ups for the duels simply say that: Player X won Player Z. Perhaps the following duel would confirm for us if Andres simply writes duels as 'close ones' with action for the sake of story fodder :clown:, or whether it really was a close duel. I would suppose if the latter option is true, Andres might flip a dice and choose the winner if the battle ratings of the 2 people are equal I would guess.

As such, I would not make more evidence searches on duels until the next one occurs, for the first duel has yet to prove anything, it has but set a benchmark. We would do well to see the 'dominance' of 1 player versus another in the next write up for duels, or the same 'close game' style. It would likely take a few duels to accurately gauge...

[Andres]

Ignoramus, it would be better if you didn't challenge people but vote for them. Firstly, if I am not wrong challenges can be denied.

No. Challenges cannot be denied nor withdrawn.

[Death is yonder]

That poses a new argument entirely... well, this then could be a tactic for the high battle rating scum to challenge people occasionally or take turns. Who knows!? :wall:

[AggonyDuck]

What do you think of stephen asen?

He's a friend and I think this might be his first mafia game, so I'm not going to join a bandwagon against him without a good reason for suspicion. That said I haven't had the time to read the posts he has made so far, so I might change my opinion after that.

[AggonyDuck]

Upon looking at those posts, I think we will have to lynch Stephen sooner or later. I don't really have a gut reaction yet, but there's a good possibility that Stephen is one of the ninjas, so we might just have to lynch him quick and hope that we were correct. That said I suggest we keep a very close eye on Beskar as well.

Unvote: Abstain, Vote: Stephen Asen

[_Tristan_]

After catching up with the thread, I'll have to join the bandwagon and

Vote : Stephen Asen

[Husar]

Just as a FYI, IIRC in sigurd's games the challenge rating was increased by +1 for every successful battle and at least in Midgard 1 even when you beat the weakest weakling as a god.
I think it was the same in Midgard II, whether Andres adopted this as well would be interesting to know, Sigurd sent people PMs about these increases.

That also makes me wonder where Sigurd is?

[TinCow]

The things that Glenn and Sasaki have pointed out about Olavi's death make sense to me. If true, it would conclusively show that the ninjas and traitors are not allies.

[edit]If so, this screws up my attempt at connecting the night kills to various roles. I'll take another shot at it after N3.

[Beefy187]

Vote: Stephen Asen

[Beskar]

That said I suggest we keep a very close eye on Beskar as well.

I made a good convincing argument, my detective skills are uncanny. :smash:

On the downside, Stephen Asen must really be hating me. :embarassed: Nothing personal, Stephen, I just noticed those set of happenings and it was the most convincing thing I seen myself so far in the game as clues to who some one could be.

[Csargo]

Still too little to go on for me.

Vote: Abstain
Challenge: Ichigo

Something about his accusation of GH doesn't sound right.

This makes no sense. :huh:

[Death is yonder]

@Besker: I would like to point out that there are a few blanks in your accusations against Stephen, but seeing as there is nothing BETTER to go on, i will just Vote: Stephen Asen until something more decisive comes up :bow:.

We can only learn
from our mistakes in voting
not doing nothing

[Captain Blackadder]

VOTE STEPHEN ASEN

For now at least

[FactionHeir]

I have a feeling Stephen is the vigilante. But that doesn't make him anti town.

I'm also somewhat distrusting of Aggony and wonder why Chimpyang is silent again.

vote abstain

[Beskar]

Page 20's table -


Stephen Asen 11 Beskar, El Diablo, LittleGrizzly, Gregoshi, Reenk Roink, pevergreen, AggonyDuck, Tristan de Castelreng, Beefy187, Captain Blackadder, CountArach

Beskar 4 Stephen Asen, Kagemusha, Death is yonder, atheotes

Sigurd 3 Louis the Fat, KukriKhan, TinCow

TinCow 1 YLC
TosaInu 1 Thermal Mercury
YLC 1 Glenn
Sasaki 1 Yaropolk
Ignoramus 1 Ichigo
AggonyDuck 1 Sasaki Kojir
Yaropolk 1 woad&fangs

Abstain 4 Rhyfelwyr, Ignoramus, FactionHeir, Chimpyang


Argument against Stephen Asen (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2217361&postcount=517) and page 19 for more.

[FactionHeir]

Ignoramus and myself abstained as well.

[pevergreen]

Such a bandwagon
is out of place as there is
no evidence yet.


Reenk-san pointed out my mistake. :bow:

I live to serve. :bow:

[Andres]

Announcement:

Kagemusha will replace Ibn-Khaldun.

:bow:

[Chimpyang]

Well nothing suspicious I hope, I have had invisibility turned off so you can monitor when I'm on here.
This one's almost a foregone conclusion - however Aggony gives the impression of someone having to cut his losses when confronted with bad news.

Vote : Abstain for now

[Kagemusha]

Thanks Andres for having me and Hello, fellow Bushi´s. I will go through the thread and then share my views about any suspects that might stick up, with their peculiar behaviour.:bow:

[Louis VI the Fat]

Vote: Kagemusha! Sneaky ninja-esque entrance, that. I bet it was you all along...



More seriously. Still very little to go on. But I am eying the bandwagoning...

Unvote: Kagemusha Vote: Sigurd

Awfully quiet - he retreats into a cloud of silence when scummy. Let flow thy words! Like the waters of a waterfall, it is not the flowing stream itself, but the mists from the fall that make the flowers on the banks bloom.
Or, it doesn't matter what anybody says, as long as they speak there is information for us.


Tally:
Stephen Asen 11 Beskar, El Diablo, LittleGrizzly, Gregoshi, Reenk Roink, pevergreen, AggonyDuck, Tristan de Castelreng, Beefy187, Death is yonder, Captain Blackadder

GeneralHankerchief 2 TinCow, Ichigo
Yaropolk 2 woad&fangs, Sasaki Kojiro

TinCow 1 YLC
Beskar 1 Stephen Asen
TosaInu 1 Thermal Mercury
YLC 1 Glenn
Sigurd 1 Louis VI the Fat

Abstain 3 Rhyfelwyr, Ignoramus, FactionHeir
Night 1


Hour of the Rat.


Ii Naomasa (Khazaar)
While he was taking off his kimono, he heard a sound on the opposite corner of the room. He unsheeted his wakizashi and slowly walked towards the sound.

He didn’t notice the shady figure behind him, carrying a razor sharp katana.

The shady figure pierced the katana through Ii’s back.

Ii Naomasa had hardly noticed that the sword had pierced through his chest, when the sword struck a second time, decapacitating him.

The killer continued by chopping of both arms and legs of the already dead samurai.

After he had done what he came for, the attacker whiped his blade clean on the kimono of his victim and left the room unnoticed.


Hour of the Rat

Takayama Ukon (spL1tp3r50nal1ty)
The veteran warrior nodded to the samurai who was coming to relieve him.


Without even a nod, Takayama turned his back to the young samurai and walked away.

The poisoned shuriken in his neck ended his life within seconds.

The young samurai walked towards his victim. “It’s not wise to turn your back to your enemy.”

He quickly covered the body with snow and resumed standing guard. It didn't take long before the real replacement arrived. The killer bowed respectfully to the other samurai. “I’m grateful that you finally made it. I’m off for a hot bath and a warm bed. See you tomorrow.”
After this words, he bowed and quickly turned around. The other samurai couldn’t see his face.


Hour of the Ox

Kikuya (Lord Winter) took of her kimono and started to put on her make-up.

“Now, that’s a surprise!” a manly voice said.

Kikuya felt the wakizashi entering her lungs. A hard and well placed kick made her fall on the floor. The man watched her as she was suffocating in her own blood. He bowed towards her to take a good look at her face.

“What a waste,” he said, regret in his voice. The wakizashi in her throat, mercifully ended Kikuya’s young life.

The masked samurai left the scene unnoticed.


Night 2



Hour of the Rat

Fujiwara Ritsu (The Spartan) He was quite happy not to have guard duty that night.

While he was taking out the bottle and looking for a clean cup, he didn’t notice the dark shadow on the opposite wall of the room. With one well placed punch, he broke the young samurai’s neck.

The ninja picked up the bottle of saké and left unnoticed.

Hour of the Rat

Konishi Yukinaga (Iskander III) was standing guard.
Konishi’s thoughts were disrupted by the sound of footsteps in the snow.

“Hey!” a voice said loudly.

Konishi turned towards the sound of the voice and got temporarily blinded by the campfire. That was all the ninja needed to throw a sharp, poisoned throwing knife right through the samurai’s throat.

Hour of the Rat

Uesugi Kenshu (Shinseikhaan)

But for now, he was still alive and he could still enjoy beauty. And so, he decided to go outside, because, contrary to his fellow samurai, he loved the cold, dark nights in the mountains.

While he was walking and enjoying the freezing yet silent cold, he didn’t hear nor see the blade that was being lifted. When it struck down, it seperated Uesugi’s head from his body, ending his life mercifully quick.

The warrior behind him cleaned his sword with the kimono of the fallen Uesugi and carefully left the scene unnoticed.

Hour of the Ox

Watanabe Yumi (Olavi) entered his room. As soon as his head touched the cushion, he slept.

He didn’t notice the figure entering his room. Two strong, dark gloved hands grabbed Watanabe’s throat and broke his larynx. The knife piercing through his right eye, into his brains ended the job very quick.


The dark shade left the room unnoticed.
If not as of yet, within one or two nights a careful reading of the write-ups should yield relevant information. Note that the write-ups above are abridged, for ease of reference.

For my own administration, and for the convience of others, two posts:

Andres' write-ups are not clueless, but there is little to go on. Nevertheless, I believe I am noting some small pattern regarding the killers:

Vigi-Sam Killer

I see parallels between the killings of Lord Winter and 'kkhaan. Both of these appear to be sword killings as of a Samurai in vigilante mode. Both targets are known players with several GR mafias under their belts. Also, both targets often lessen their participation following death.

I could be wrong and this could be a bad-guy doing the killing, but I believe this is one killer and he or she is killing experienced players of known skill but those who do NOT normally feature as early round lightning rods.

Butcher

Khazar's particularly gory death on N1 strikes me as the work of a SK. Both Samurai and Ninja were capable of lots of violence and beheadings were common, but hacking the taget to ribbons is excessive and betokens instability. No such killing occurred on N2.

Ninja

We have more than one of these, but I am not sure that they all were up to speed on day one. I get the suggestion of some being late with their orders and late to the game -- as I was -- so it might be wothwhile to query those who were inactive at first but active now. I fit that profile, so have at me if you wish. ALL of their targets have been relative newcomers or those with very low profiles (save for The Spartan, returning after a long absence). I am not sure it's as random as Tincow suggests -- just prudent targeting early while the big names and frequent posters lynch each other in the early rounds (as we all know happens pretty often).


The ninjas and the traitors are our mafia, likely two separate families. The powers of the pro-town roles remain unknown, but it's possible that some of them can kill at night. There is also the secret role which could be a serial killer.

N1 Deaths:
Khazaar - Killer repeatedly called a "shady figure." Decapitates target and wipes blade on kimono. Likely ninja.
spL1tp3r50nal1ty - Killer repeatedly referred to as a samurai, which would preclude the ninjas. Likely traitor.
Lord Winter - Killer specifically called a samurai, which would preclude the ninjas. Killer first attacked unarmed, then finished with a blade. Likely traitor. Worth nothing that Lord Winter was obviously a geisha, indicating that the town is down a power role right from the start.

N2 Deaths:
The Spartan - Killer specifically referred to as a ninja.
Iskander III - Killer specifically referred to as a ninja.
Shinseikhaan - Killer not referred to as either samurai or ninja, only "warrior." However, the killer decapitated his target and wiped his blade on the kimono. This is very similar to the N1 Khazaar death. Thus, likely the ninja killer of Khazaar.
Olavi - Killer not referred to as either samurai or ninja, only "dark shade." However, the killer first attacked unarmed, then finished with a blade. This is very similar to the N1 Lord Winter death. Thus, likely the traitor killer of Lord Winter.

Thus, we have 5 killers so far, 3 ninjas and 2 traitors. This matches the killing power listed in Andres' rules.

Ninja Larry: N1 - Khazaar, N2 - 'khaan
Ninja Moe: N1 - Did not kill, N2 - The Spartan
Ninja Curly: N1 - Did not kill, N2 - Iskander III

Traitor Dante: N1 - spL1tp3r50nal1ty, N2 - Did not kill
Traitor Randal: N1 - Lord Winter, N2 - Olavi

Two of the ninjas keeping quiet on N1 is not really remarkable. It is a common and intelligent tactic to intentionally refrain from killing. However, the failure of Traitor Dante to kill on N2 is interesting, as there are very few circumstances in which a mafioso will voluntarily not kill after he has started murdering. The usual reasons are (1) to make the town think he just died, (2) he didn't get his orders in on time, and (3) he was blocked. (1) is pointless this early in the game. (2) is unlikely since he was active on N1... usually people who are inactive as mafioso are that way in the beginning, not after they've already gotten involved in the game. That leaves (3). So, my conclusion is Traitor Dante was blocked last night.

Edit: forgot to add FH's useful comment!



My view on the killings varies a bit from yours.

My categories:
N1:
Khazaar - Serial Killer
spL1tp3r50nal1ty - Ninja
Lord Winter - Traitor

N2 Deaths:
The Spartan - Ninja
Iskander III - Ninja
Shinseikhaan - Traitor
Olavi - Serial Killer

So from my thinking, the traitor is experienced, the ninjas and serial killer are new players or TWC players.

[Csargo]

Welcome Kage. ~:wave:

Unvote:GH, Vote:Ignoramus

GH is working on something for a PBM someone said. Igno abstained and then challenged me, which makes very little sense. Plus, he posted. I respect the SA wagon soooooo much I can't bare to defile it by jumping on.:bounce:



Stephen Asen 11 Beskar, El Diablo, LittleGrizzly, Gregoshi, Reenk Roink, pevergreen, AggonyDuck, Tristan de Castelreng, Beefy187, Death is yonder, Captain Blackadder

Yaropolk 2 woad&fangs, Sasaki Kojiro

GeneralHankerchief 1 TinCow
TinCow 1 YLC
Beskar 1 Stephen Asen
TosaInu 1 Thermal Mercury
YLC 1 Glenn
Sigurd 1 Louis VI the Fat
Ignoramus 1 Ichigo

Abstain 3 Rhyfelwyr, Ignoramus, FactionHeir

[FactionHeir]

Louis, no comment on my classification? :tongue2:

[KukriKhan]

vote: Sigurd


Stephen Asen 11 Beskar, El Diablo, LittleGrizzly, Gregoshi, Reenk Roink, pevergreen, AggonyDuck, Tristan de Castelreng, Beefy187, Death is yonder, Captain Blackadder

GeneralHankerchief 1 TinCow,
Yaropolk 2 woad&fangs, Sasaki Kojiro

TinCow 1 YLC
Beskar 1 Stephen Asen
TosaInu 1 Thermal Mercury
YLC 1 Glenn
Sigurd 2 Louis VI the Fat, KukriKhan
Ignoramus 1 Ichigo

Abstain 3 Rhyfelwyr, Ignoramus, FactionHeir

[Beskar]

Just for reference, I leave the gaps in-between names if it is a different number. With the highest number at the top, etc. So for example, if you look at my updated post (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2217866&postcount=573) and Kukrikhan's, you hopefully will see what I mean.

[Yaropolk]

What do you think of stephen asen?


Sasaki - what made you think there is a link between Stephen Asen and AggonyDuck?

As it turns out there was. You've been asked this question twice and didn't answer either time.

Vote: Sasaki

[CountArach]

Alright I'm just going to Vote: Glenn for the moment. Challenging his own cousin and fighting him just seems... strange... It strikes me as somewhat mason-ish to have two relatives in the game. I don't like masons.

Any thoughts on if we would be told if we had relatives in this game?

(Yes I am drawing a long bow, but I'm tired and just finished writing an essay. Give me a break :wink: )

[TinCow]

While it is true that GH is managing a major PvP battle in the Throne Room at the moment, a good portion of that battle involves waiting 1-2 days for orders to be submitted. I can see the battle interfering with his posting while he's figuring out the results of a particular combat phase, but after the initial setup (which was completed before this game began) there's still a lot of free time to be had. For this reason, GH should not be let off the hook for his low post count. That said, my GH vote is not doing any good at this point. I will place it somewhere it will be more useful. That place is not the stupidly large bandwagon.

Unvote: GH
Vote: Sigurd

[CountArach]

In retrospect... and after like 5 seconds of thought, my previous idea is moronic. Why would they kill each other as part of their goal?

Unvote: Glenn
Vote: Stephen Asen

[Kagemusha]

Could someone please elaborate and tell me what exactly is the case against Stephen Asen? After reading the start of this game, to me two players stand up by far behaving most suspiciously. Beskar, who is fanatically protecting himself from any accusations, maybe bit too fanatically.

Also Sasaki Kojiro challenged Ibn-Khaldun with very light reasons. As if he had very little to be scared of the outcome. Sasaki should also know better that killing people in duels just for the heck of it only hurts the town.

Vote: Beskar

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Sasaki - what made you think there is a link between Stephen Asen and AggonyDuck?

As it turns out there was. You've been asked this question twice and didn't answer either time.

Vote: Sasaki

Poor excuse for a retaliation vote...but no matter:



So do the battle ratings run on a scale from 1-10?
Not much to go on, but I wonder if AggonyDuck has a 9 or 10 rating. This could mean either he's either an assassin or a bodyguard, so I wouldn't want to FOS him yet, since he may be a valueable role.


It's not necessary to expose such things to public. I ask you to edit your post in the Swords in the Moon.



Why did you want yarapolk to edit out post 488?

Sasaki

I don't know. If I survive I will have enough time to think over it. I think one of the traitors died that night (Olavi).



Could someone please elaborate and tell me what exactly is the case against Stephen Asen? After reading the start of this game, to me two players stand up by far behaving most suspiciously. Beskar, who is fanatically protecting himself from any accusations, maybe bit too fanatically.

Also Sasaki Kojiro challenged Ibn-Khaldun with very light reasons. As if he had very little to be scared of the outcome. Sasaki should also know better that killing people in duels just for the heck of it only hurts the town.

Vote: Beskar

Beskar's case doesn't make much sense to me either. Seems to be relying solely on assumptions about when kills were sent in.

The above exchange weirds me out though...

Duels are fun, you should know that :duel:


He's a friend and I think this might be his first mafia game, so I'm not going to join a bandwagon against him without a good reason for suspicion. That said I haven't had the time to read the posts he has made so far, so I might change my opinion after that



Upon looking at those posts, I think we will have to lynch Stephen sooner or later. I don't really have a gut reaction yet, but there's a good possibility that Stephen is one of the ninjas, so we might just have to lynch him quick and hope that we were correct. That said I suggest we keep a very close eye on Beskar as well.

Unvote: Abstain, Vote: Stephen Asen

Unvote:Yarapolk
Vote:AggonyDuck

Doesn't seem like him, and the exchange above indicates an in game connection to me. Especially stephen's "I don't know".

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Challenge:AggonyDuck

Since Stephen will be the one lynched.

[Kagemusha]

I agree that Duckie seems somewhat suspicious with his light reasons for getting rid of Stephen Asen also. Still about the duels. Each time a samurai dies in vain, that gives better chances for the ninjas to achieve their goals. So killing for fun is bit suspicious, even coming from Sasaki Kojiro.~;)

[Death is yonder]

While it is true that GH is managing a major PvP battle in the Throne Room at the moment, a good portion of that battle involves waiting 1-2 days for orders to be submitted. I can see the battle interfering with his posting while he's figuring out the results of a particular combat phase, but after the initial setup (which was completed before this game began) there's still a lot of free time to be had. For this reason, GH should not be let off the hook for his low post count. That said, my GH vote is not doing any good at this point. I will place it somewhere it will be more useful. That place is not the stupidly large bandwagon.

Unvote: GH
Vote: Sigurd

May I ask why you are voting Sigurd other than him supposedly being a lurker when scum? And not joining a bandwagon of course... but I've noticed that the votes for Sigurd come with not much reason thus far. Still, there indeed is nothing much to lynch upon at the moment... rather lost at the moment where to place a vote :lost:. Perhaps you three are starting a new bandwagon for the other 3/5 of the population who has not voted :clown:? I will wait...
Unvote Stephen Asen
Vote: Abstain

@Kage- Well, we basically have nothing at the moment, just attempts at understanding how the game is running at the moment, who is killing who, whether it be ninja or traitor, we're rather... lynch happy at the moment it seems, with little coming up and town jumping all over it, but we really need to make progress... we're not going anywhere these few rounds already, and we are already down a pro-town role. #Post 517, page 18= That is what started it all.

Reading it through once more, it sounds suspicious. Referring to Andres haiku, I only made the precursor that garnered his response in haiku form for fun. I know already that the night phase is scheduled to end at a fixed time. His third quote of Stephen has been interpreted wrongly after further investigation... Stephen's comment was purely based on our minor poetic/haiku theme in posting. Furthermore, his comment about the victim who would stop playing is rather scummy too. There are plenty others who are lurking/ away, why single out Olavi.

Furthermore, I believe that Andres wouldn't post the final write ups just after receiving the last order... I do not believe the host would provide such a blatant clue which would encourage massive profile watching. Rather, I think Andres would intentionally delay the write-ups. GH for one does as such in his mafia do discourage profile watching pertaining to activity near the kill times... at least I think so.

Suspicious behavior Beskar, you are either an overzealous townie searching for any scrap of evidence or a scum who has tried to provide 'logical' sounding analysis to mislead town.

As such, I will
Unvote: Abstain
Vote: Beskar

[Beskar]

It isn't me. Yoshi-san, my IC person is too lazy to be a mafia-role. Complete opposite of me. (In the sense I posted a lot. Mainly due to I should be doing revision....)
http://www.quizilla.com/user_images/O/OZL/1123519803_8.jpeg
(Yoshi-san with his Strawhat)

Waste of a vote, putting it on me. If my argument was logically sounding and makes sense, then it does on its own merits, nothing to do with it being false. I only work with the truth.

[AggonyDuck]

With hindsight I'd say both my posts were a bit hasty. Due to your question, I did feel pressure to take a stance on Stephen and I decided to vote against him as I couldn't quite figure out how he had noticed that thing about Olavi's name. I also agree it might have been on light grounds, but that said I've slept only two hours this night due to an exam, so my mind is rather foggy.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Mafia games would be really screwed if it relied on concrete evidence. Only an imbecile mafia role would actually give concrete evidence they are "it".

Misquoting is scummy :book:

Read Death is Yonder's post for why it's not a good idea to make assumptions about when the kills were sent in.


Edit: he edited that bit out


And Kage, duels are a solid pro town strategy as well as being fun.

[TinCow]

May I ask why you are voting Sigurd other than him supposedly being a lurker when scum? And not joining a bandwagon of course... but I've noticed that the votes for Sigurd come with not much reason thus far. Still, there indeed is nothing much to lynch upon at the moment... rather lost at the moment where to place a vote :lost:. Perhaps you three are starting a new bandwagon for the other 3/5 of the population who has not voted :clown:? I will wait...

I voted for him specifically because there were already 2 other votes on him. A single vote isn't likely to pressure someone into talking, especially not with an almost certain lynch via bandwagon like we've got going on now. The only way to put pressure on someone other than the bandwagonee in a day like this is to pump someone else up there a bit. Sigurd isn't talking. Sigurd has a couple votes. Thus my vote is more useful on him than on GH. The only other option was Yaropolk, but he's contributing more than Sigurd and I wouldn't classify him as a lurker.

[Beskar]

Read Death is Yonder's post for why it's not a good idea to make assumptions about when the kills were sent in.

Well, Andres said the deadline was at was on the half of hour. If no one submitted, he would have done it then. While he posted before he was still waiting for role people then posted 20 minutes before the dead, 10 minutes after Stephen would have popped him the message.

Could blame Andres for not sticking to the deadline, that is not my fault, rather the hosts. Naughty Andres. (I love you really Andres <3333 don't give me bad random rolls)

[Kagemusha]

Sasaki duels can be a tool for both town and for mafia. If we assume that the Ninjas/ traitors have high battle values. Townie can identify one by sacrificing himself in a duel. But even in that case he might have found an anti town person, but just as well he might have got himself killed by swordmaster, whom should have very high duel value as well. In the conclusion sacrificing a townie for peculiar results seems not very powerful tool for the town. This method kills townies, which is a bad thing. Also in case a townie challenges a swordmaster and looses, it creates pressure to lynch a pro town role.

On the other hand, if we assume that someone who is anti town goes around challenging other based on light reasons, protected by his high duel value. For such person that strategy only creates benefit. First each dead townie is good thing for mafia and second if he looses to a swordmaster. His partners know who to aim for the next night.

Based on these things you are very high up in my suspect list, specially with you challenging again this round. It seems that you have high stats, because you are looking for challenges with much eagerness. I have serious dobts that you would play that way if you would be a swordmaster, because in that case you would become immediately an assasination target. Thus you seem more then scummy to me.

[atheotes]

I have gone through the posts and there is nothing strong enough to point one direction or the other... for now it looks like Stephen is going to get lynched... not sure if there is a strong case or not... personally i am more suspicious of Beskar (it took him only one minute to post his last defense! looks too anxious)...
i am hoping that Sasaki vs Aggony duel takes place... the results might point to something...
:thinking2:

Vote: Beskar

[Louis VI the Fat]

Louis, no comment on my classification? :tongue2:Sorry, the thread is simply unwieldingly large. I remembered reading some useful comments about working out the system behind the killings, but didn't quite recall where and of what nature.

I've added it in, thanks. :bow:



Well, Andres said the deadline was at was on the half of hour. If no one submitted, he would have done it then. While he posted before he was still waiting for role people then posted 20 minutes before the dead, 10 minutes after Stephen would have popped him the message.

Could blame Andres for not sticking to the deadline, that is not my fault, rather the hosts. Naughty Andres.That does it.

Challenge: Andres. Let's test his worth in the only manly way possible. In battle. :knight:

[TinCow]

Sasaki duels can be a tool for both town and for mafia. If we assume that the Ninjas/ traitors have high battle values. Townie can identify one by sacrificing himself in a duel. But even in that case he might have found an anti town person, but just as well he might have got himself killed by swordmaster, whom should have very high duel value as well. In the conclusion sacrificing a townie for peculiar results seems not very powerful tool for the town. This method kills townies, which is a bad thing. Also in case a townie challenges a swordmaster and looses, it creates pressure to lynch a pro town role.

On the other hand, if we assume that someone who is anti town goes around challenging other based on light reasons, protected by his high duel value. For such person that strategy only creates benefit. First each dead townie is good thing for mafia and second if he looses to a swordmaster. His partners know who to aim for the next night.

Based on these things you are very high up in my suspect list, specially with you challenging again this round. It seems that you have high stats, because you are looking for challenges with much eagerness. I have serious dobts that you would play that way if you would be a swordmaster, because in that case you would become immediately an assasination target. Thus you seem more then scummy to me.

I completely agree with your analysis of the usefulness of dueling. I have never seen it as remotely pro-town in any manner with the possible exception of an end-game scenario with multiple known mafioso. However, I've been in two other games with dueling: Midgard 2 and Settlement. In both of those games numerous townies fought or tried to fight duels. For whatever reason, dueling appears to appeal to townies even though it hurts the town. :shrug:

[Yaropolk]

Poor excuse for a retaliation vote...but no matter:



Beskar's case doesn't make much sense to me either. Seems to be relying solely on assumptions about when kills were sent in.

The above exchange weirds me out though...

Duels are fun, you should know that :duel:





Unvote:Yarapolk
Vote:AggonyDuck

Doesn't seem like him, and the exchange above indicates an in game connection to me. Especially stephen's "I don't know".



Ok


Unvote: Sasaki
Vote: AggonyDuck

[Andres]

Sorry, the thread is simply unwieldingly large. I remembered reading some useful comments about working out the system behind the killings, but didn't quite recall where and of what nature.

I've added it in, thanks. :bow:


That does it.

Challenge: Andres. Let's test his worth in the only manly way possible. In battle. :knight:

Monsieur wishes to challenge THE INFALLIBLE :inquisitive:

Come, come, I'll pretend like I didn't see that one and I'll leave the ligthning bolts and earthquakes stored in my basement for now :smug:

Silly humans :rolleyes:

[Gregoshi]

OOC: It is rather interesting listening to everyone's reasons or lack thereof. There have been some impressive deductions (from my point of view) gleaned from Andres' write-ups (which are great BTW :bow:). It gives me an idea of what to look for. I didn't realize the game could get so deep.

Regarding player interaction, I've got mixed feelings. While the Vets can certainly use their experience to dig for evidence in what we are saying or not saying, or saying too scummily or too forcefully, it seems that they are hampered by their reputation from prior games. This meta-gaming knowledge is unavailable to us noobies, but I'm not sure I see that as a negative at the moment. The charge/counter-charge seems pointless as each side picks apart the words and their imagined meanings of the other. Pointless, that is, unless that is a game tactic to get someone talking in the hopes they make a real, and major mistake/reveal.

Anyway, there's interesting dynamics going on and I think I'm beginning to catch on a little. Maybe by game's end (assuming I live that long) I might - just might - be able to contribute something that, while impressive to me, will have been obvious to you all for two game days. :laugh4:

IC: <Sadako storms through camp dragging a rope behind her. At the end of the rope is a pair of sandals - bound...and gagged.>

[FactionHeir]

Could blame Andres for not sticking to the deadline, that is not my fault, rather the hosts. Naughty Andres. (I love you really Andres <3333 don't give me bad random rolls)

The only reason you could get bad random rolls is if you had a role.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Sasaki duels can be a tool for both town and for mafia. If we assume that the Ninjas/ traitors have high battle values. Townie can identify one by sacrificing himself in a duel. But even in that case he might have found an anti town person, but just as well he might have got himself killed by swordmaster, whom should have very high duel value as well. In the conclusion sacrificing a townie for peculiar results seems not very powerful tool for the town. This method kills townies, which is a bad thing. Also in case a townie challenges a swordmaster and looses, it creates pressure to lynch a pro town role.

On the other hand, if we assume that someone who is anti town goes around challenging other based on light reasons, protected by his high duel value. For such person that strategy only creates benefit. First each dead townie is good thing for mafia and second if he looses to a swordmaster. His partners know who to aim for the next night.

Based on these things you are very high up in my suspect list, specially with you challenging again this round. It seems that you have high stats, because you are looking for challenges with much eagerness. I have serious dobts that you would play that way if you would be a swordmaster, because in that case you would become immediately an assasination target. Thus you seem more then scummy to me.


I disagree entirely. Now, if you really think that a swordmaster would not look for challenges then you must disagree with your own suspicions as well. Because we have multiple mafia factions, and to be revealed as good with the blade would make a mafioso an assassination target as well.

It's simple really: if you have good reason to suspect someone, it's a pro town move to challenge them. If you win, you remove a suspect (same as lynching) or kill a mafioso. If you lose you lose, maybe revealing your opponent to have a high score. With the mafia knocking off 3 or 4 of their own choosing every night the town needs greater killing power as well.

Of course...my ibn challenge was because of his namby pamby "watch out or I might challenge you!" post for which he clearly deserved to die ~D

[Sasaki Kojiro]

The only reason you could get bad random rolls is if you had a role.

Or fought a duel...though I still have my eye on beskar.

[AggonyDuck]

I disagree entirely. Now, if you really think that a swordmaster would not look for challenges then you must disagree with your own suspicions as well. Because we have multiple mafia factions, and to be revealed as good with the blade would make a mafioso an assassination target as well.

It's simple really: if you have good reason to suspect someone, it's a pro town move to challenge them. If you win, you remove a suspect (same as lynching) or kill a mafioso. If you lose you lose, maybe revealing your opponent to have a high score. With the mafia knocking off 3 or 4 of their own choosing every night the town needs greater killing power as well.

Of course...my ibn challenge was because of his namby pamby "watch out or I might challenge you!" post for which he clearly deserved to die ~D

Well the problem is that it really doesn't reveal that your opponent has a higher score due to the fact that there is the random quality added to it all, so that a lower skilled fighter can kill a better one with luck.

[TinCow]

If you lose you lose, maybe revealing your opponent to have a high score.

This only works if we know the approximate duel score of the person who lost. Care to share yours?

[Kagemusha]

I disagree entirely. Now, if you really think that a swordmaster would not look for challenges then you must disagree with your own suspicions as well. Because we have multiple mafia factions, and to be revealed as good with the blade would make a mafioso an assassination target as well.

It's simple really: if you have good reason to suspect someone, it's a pro town move to challenge them. If you win, you remove a suspect (same as lynching) or kill a mafioso. If you lose you lose, maybe revealing your opponent to have a high score. With the mafia knocking off 3 or 4 of their own choosing every night the town needs greater killing power as well.

Of course...my ibn challenge was because of his namby pamby "watch out or I might challenge you!" post for which he clearly deserved to die ~D

Swordmaster looking for challenges would be painting a big red crosshair over himself. Not exactly best way to do his job, which is protecting his lord. If townies would not challenge each other over light excuses, challenging, unless made under consus of majority would become scummy, thus taking a large weapon out of the mafia´s arsenal. I know you know better then what you are trying to sell here.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Well the problem is that it really doesn't reveal that your opponent has a higher score due to the fact that there is the random quality added to it all, so that a lower skilled fighter can kill a better one with luck.

Given last nights duel, it's fairly descriptive. But yeah, I wouldn't trust them entirely. Information is possible though.



This only works if we know the approximate duel score of the person who lost. Care to share yours?

I'll send it to CountArach if it's allowed. Anyway...25 is the score I claim.


Swordmaster looking for challenges would be painting a big red crosshair over himself. Not exactly best way to do his job, which is protecting his lord. If townies would not challenge each other over light excuses, challenging, unless made under consus of majority would become scummy, thus taking a large weapon out of the mafia´s arsenal. I know you know better then what you are trying to sell here.

You contradicted yourself and ignored the part where I pointed that out. Do you object to the death of either me or AggonyDuck?

[Beskar]

Or fought a duel...though I still have my eye on beskar. (the bolded is the correct statement)

People are trying to pick logic from a man with multiple personalities and trying to pull assumptions from complete thin-air with no proof. As I already said, there are differences from myself and my IC character, so trying to gleam anything is pointless. Such as FactionHeir trying to say when I must have a role for a roll, when it was obviously talking about a duel.

Currently, only argument on here with any merits is mine on Stephen and as I said it isn't perfect, but it is far more accurate any arguments depicting me as a Mafia-role member.

[AggonyDuck]

Given last nights duel, it's fairly descriptive. But yeah, I wouldn't trust them entirely. Information is possible though.




I'll send it to CountArach if it's allowed. Anyway...25 is the score I claim.

edit: op doesn't specify, but I assume I can't.



You contradicted yourself and ignored the part where I pointed that out. Do you object to the death of either me or AggonyDuck?

I atleast object to my death as it means that the yashiki will have one less innocent man!

[Beskar]

Page 21's table -


Stephen Asen 10 Beskar, El Diablo, LittleGrizzly, Gregoshi, Reenk Roink, pevergreen, Tristan de Castelreng, Beefy187, Captain Blackadder, CountArach

Sigurd 6 Louis the Fat, KukriKhan, TinCow, Chimpyang, AggonyDuck, Quintus.JC

Beskar 4 Stephen Asen, Kagemusha, Death is yonder, atheotes

AggonyDuck 2 Sasaki Kojir, Yaropolk

Sasaki Kojir 1 LittleGrizzly
TinCow 1 YLC
TosaInu 1 Thermal Mercury
YLC 1 Glenn
Ignoramus 1 Ichigo
Yaropolk 1 woad&fangs

Abstain 4 Rhyfelwyr, Ignoramus, FactionHeir


Argument against Stephen Asen (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2217361&postcount=517)

[TinCow]

I'll send it to CountArach if it's allowed.

Not a bad idea actually. If everyone listed in a duel challenge sent their (claimed) duel scores to CountArach, we might be able to build something useful out of the results.

[Yaropolk]

Page 21's table -


Stephen Asen 11 Beskar, El Diablo, LittleGrizzly, Gregoshi, Reenk Roink, pevergreen, AggonyDuck, Tristan de Castelreng, Beefy187, Captain Blackadder, CountArach

Beskar 4 Stephen Asen, Kagemusha, Death is yonder, atheotes

Sigurd 3 Louis the Fat, KukriKhan, TinCow

AggonyDuck 2 Sasaki Kojir, Yaropolk

TinCow 1 YLC
TosaInu 1 Thermal Mercury
YLC 1 Glenn
Sasaki 1 Yaropolk
Ignoramus 1 Ichigo
Yaropolk 1 woad&fangs

Abstain 4 Rhyfelwyr, Ignoramus, FactionHeir, Chimpyang


Argument against Stephen Asen (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2217361&postcount=517)

You've got me listed twice on here - I unvoted Sasaki, and voted for AggonyDuck.

Btw, is someone keeping track of challenges?

[Beskar]

You've got me listed twice on here - I unvoted Sasaki, and voted for AggonyDuck.

Btw, is someone keeping track of challenges?
Oops, fixed.

[Kagemusha]

You contradicted yourself and ignored the part where I pointed that out. Do you object to the death of either me or AggonyDuck?

Where is the contradiction. You are just trying to defend untaneable position after being caught of anti town behaviour. Im not objecting anyones death in particular. I am telling you that challenging lightly is scummy behaviour, because loss of townies is not a good thing. Do not try to twist my words.

[atheotes]

Btw, is someone keeping track of challenges?

Andres, will pick (randomly ofcourse ~D) one of the first four valid challenges that were posted.

[Quintus.JC]

Never played with Beskar before, but he appears to talk a lot, that means he probably have role, good or bad.

FOS: Beskar

Challenge: Beskar

Vote: Sigurd

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Where is the contradiction. You are just trying to defend untaneable position after being caught of anti town behaviour. Im not objecting anyones death in particular. I am telling you that challenging lightly is scummy behaviour, because loss of townies is not a good thing. Do not try to twist my words.

"If you were a swordsman, you would not paint a target on yourself, because one of the mafia groups would kill you. Therefore you are not a swordsman"

This was your logic. Now replace "swordsman" with "mafioso" and the same logic holds. Ergo, to claim that I could not be the swordsman but can be mafia is contradiction. Why do you say that duck is a townie? How can you claim that I knew what ducks score was?

[Chimpyang]

I'm guessing he';s accusing you of being shinobi - which would suggest a detective role - we've had 2 night phases and 1 day phase - so the detective will have had time to investigate 1 person at least

I wish to hear more from Sigurd :

Unvote : Abstain . Vote : Sigurd

[GeneralHankerchief]

As has been noted, I'm currently busy running a PvP battle in the Throne Room, which takes priority for me in terms of the .Org. It's also around finals time for me in RL, which takes priority, period. I'm doing my best to keep up but I may have to ask for clarification/conciseness in the thread on issues that have already been fleshed out.

Challenge: Beefy

That said, what is the main case on Stephen Asen?

[LittleGrizzly]

Unvote Stephen Asen
Vote Sasaki

I would ask my loyal samurai to change thier votes as well if possible..

That bandwagon is a huge conversation killing machine and quite easy to get behind, the main reason for that is its probably one of the better cases available to get behind, as there doesn't seem to be much going for anything else...

that said

Midgard 2 and Settlement. In both of those games numerous townies fought or tried to fight duels. For whatever reason, dueling appears to appeal to townies even though it hurts the town.

Dueling usually works out bad for the town... and you are very enthusiastic for the challenge... maybe not scummy but not paticularly helpful...

(that and spreading the votes out a bit more would help things...)

Im not too sure about the suspicion on Beskar.. the main reason i would suspect him is because is because he's making a fairly decent well thought out case... but that doesn't seem like a good reason to lynch him..

Edit: I also have to admit i don't like massively bandwagoning a new player on the 2nd round... feels a bit nasty..

[Beskar]

Never played with Beskar before, but he appears to talk a lot, that means he probably have role, good or bad.


Because when you have a role, you instantly try to not stand out by talking all the time, right?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Because when you have a role, you instantly try to not stand out by talking all the time, right?

WIFOM :bounce:

[Beskar]

Because role-less people aren't playing the game, therefore they can't talk. Ta-dam-dush.
(Well, shouldn't talk anyway)

[Kagemusha]

"If you were a swordsman, you would not paint a target on yourself, because one of the mafia groups would kill you. Therefore you are not a swordsman"

This was your logic. Now replace "swordsman" with "mafioso" and the same logic holds. Ergo, to claim that I could not be the swordsman but can be mafia is contradiction. Why do you say that duck is a townie? How can you claim that I knew what ducks score was?

The priority for any mafia would be taking out the town first, loosing a member in the process is an expendible loss. If you are pro town, you should not have any desire to increase the kill count. Your encouraging behaviour that protects mafia is scummy. Are you indeed claiming to be a swordmaster?Where did i say that i was convinced that Duckie was a townie?

I said that i found Duckie suspicious, because of his light reasons for lynching Stephen. But for me your bloodthirsty attitude seems lot more scummy then anything he said. If you claim to be a swordsmaster who is pumping up his duel value by killing anyone crossing your path, then you are counterproductive to say the least.

[AggonyDuck]

"If you were a swordsman, you would not paint a target on yourself, because one of the mafia groups would kill you. Therefore you are not a swordsman"

This was your logic. Now replace "swordsman" with "mafioso" and the same logic holds. Ergo, to claim that I could not be the swordsman but can be mafia is contradiction. Why do you say that duck is a townie? How can you claim that I knew what ducks score was?

I think Kage means that challenges should be as seriously contemplated as lynching due to the fact, that if you get it wrong an innocent townie will die and that is a bad thing for the town. Dueling should only be reserved for moments when there are two very clear suspects, as it could kill both suspects or kill one and provide information of the other. I am certain of my innocence, so I definately see your challenge as a bad one for the yashiki, so I pray to the kami that our duel is not selected.

[Prince Cobra]

I am indeed insulted because it seems all of those who voted underestimate the intelligence. I always prefered lurking than taking part of this waste of words. It was a mistake to step out and say anything. Let's be silent sheep waiting for the assassins to find them. Anyway, as my destiny seems to be sealed, I will compose my final death poem.

To the people who vote abstain. The game leaves little place for this option. The traitors and assaissins are six people and their influence on the vote session is immense (esp. that of the ninjas). Better vote for the wrong person (like me or anybody you (don't) like) but don't stay idle.

I am still unaware of the reason I was picked out but if Lord Takeda wishes my death, I have no option but to submit. :bow:

+ I also find something indeed interesting in the way Beskar follows my downfall.

:bow:

[AggonyDuck]

While I am at it,

Unvote: Stephen Asen, Vote: Sigurd

[Beskar]

Page 22's table -


Stephen Asen 10 Beskar, El Diablo, LittleGrizzly, Gregoshi, Reenk Roink, pevergreen, Tristan de Castelreng, Beefy187, Captain Blackadder, CountArach

Sigurd 6 Louis the Fat, KukriKhan, TinCow, Chimpyang, AggonyDuck, Quintus.JC

Beskar 4 Stephen Asen, Kagemusha, Death is yonder, atheotes

AggonyDuck 2 Sasaki Kojir, Yaropolk

Sasaki Kojir 1 LittleGrizzly
TinCow 1 YLC
TosaInu 1 Thermal Mercury
YLC 1 Glenn
Ignoramus 1 Ichigo
Yaropolk 1 woad&fangs

Abstain 4 Rhyfelwyr, Ignoramus, FactionHeir


Argument against Stephen Asen (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2217361&postcount=517)

[Sasaki Kojiro]

You have littlegrizzly twice.

@kage and duck: getting a strong :wall: feeling here. The irony of you randomly voting sigurd and complaining about my challenge is a bit much.

[Prince Cobra]

Vote: Stephen Asen

:stwmean: Master says double his vote as default position. :bow:




After catching up with the thread, I'll have to join the bandwagon and

Vote : Stephen Asen





@Besker: I would like to point out that there are a few blanks in your accusations against Stephen, but seeing as there is nothing BETTER to go on, i will just Vote: Stephen Asen until something more decisive comes up :bow:.

We can only learn
from our mistakes in voting
not doing nothing





If you are going to pick up a victim without the good reason following suit of the others we will not reach very far. :bow:

I will obey the will of my Lord, but I will not give up to wipe out the shame from my face till I breath.

[Prince Cobra]

Page 22's table -


Stephen Asen 9 Beskar, El Diablo, LittleGrizzly, Gregoshi, Reenk Roink, pevergreen, Tristan de Castelreng, Beefy187, Captain Blackadder, CountArach

Sigurd 6 Louis the Fat, KukriKhan, TinCow, Chimpyang, AggonyDuck, Quintus.JC

Beskar 4 Stephen Asen, Kagemusha, Death is yonder, atheotes

AggonyDuck 2 Sasaki Kojir, Yaropolk

Sasaki Kojir 1 LittleGrizzly
TinCow 1 YLC
TosaInu 1 Thermal Mercury
YLC 1 Glenn
Ignoramus 1 Ichigo
Yaropolk 1 woad&fangs

Abstain 4 Rhyfelwyr, Ignoramus, FactionHeir


Argument against Stephen Asen (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2217361&postcount=517)


I think LG unvoted me. :bow:

[Kagemusha]

I find it also interesting, Duckie, why you switched to Sigurd? Whats the case against him?

[AggonyDuck]

You have littlegrizzly twice.

@kage and duck: getting a strong :wall: feeling here. The irony of you randomly voting sigurd and complaining about my challenge is a bit much.

Sasaki, you might have forgotten the fact that I play with integrity. I've been mafia twice, once being killed by a vigilante in night two and the other time in 'Interficio quod Scrupulosa', where I survived quite a while until you pressured me. I only claim innocence when I am innocent, as doing so otherwise would destroy my integrity. In 'Interficio' I never claimed to be innocent and I hated every second of being the bad guy. Hell once you pressured me I didn't even try to defend myself. I guess I'm one of those horrible mafia players, who doesn't play the game to be a cunning mafioso, but to solve the mystery of who the killers are as townie. Most people might have forgotten that you can count on my innocence claim, so I was planning to survive as far as possible before pointing out this fact so that we could narrow down the options in the end game.

As to why I changed my vote to Sigurd, by now my gut is saying that Stephen is innocent and I haven't heard a thing from Sigurd.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Stephen's defense strikes a chord with me.

Vote: Sigurd

[Haudegen]

Hmm, interesting discussion between Sasaki and Kage. I´m genuinely curious if this potential swordsmaster/ninja/traitor will be attacked during the next night.

But I guess if Lord Takeda wanted him dead, he would have said so.

Question: Is it a standard procedure in huge mafia games that one player (Kage) replaces another one?

[naut]

Vote: Abstain

:bow:

[glyphz]

Hmm, interesting discussion between Sasaki and Kage. I´m genuinely curious if this potential swordsmaster/ninja/traitor will be attacked during the next night.

But I guess if Lord Takeda wanted him dead, he would have said so.

Question: Is it a standard procedure in huge mafia games that one player (Kage) replaces another one?For Ibn-Khaldun, who has so far been active, to be replaced by Kagemusha, I'd guess Ibn-Khaldun PMed Andres that he cannot remain active anymore and asked to be replaced.

Can't really put a bead on anyone yet, so might as well nudge the 'silent ones'...
thus, Vote: Peasant Phill

[LittleGrizzly]

Our Lord Takeda has asked us that we make sure to get a vote in and make sure it isn't an abstain!

Anyone who disobeys the direct orders of our Lord I will seek out and destroy personally or send one of my loyal samurai to do the job!

Get your non-abstention vote in now!

Question: Is it a standard procedure in huge mafia games that one player (Kage) replaces another one?

It happens quite often that if someone can't commit time to the game like they thought they could they get replaced... especially in a game as popular as this one...

[FactionHeir]

Unfortunately the silent ones are in no danger of being lynched :no:
When's it WoG time anyway.

[glyphz]

Unfortunately the silent ones are in no danger of being lynched :no:
When's it WoG time anyway.Yeah, thought so too. However, I did not feel like abstaining, nor have anything against Stephen Asen or Sigurd that warrants my vote.

[Haudegen]

Our Lord Takeda has asked us that we make sure to get a vote in and make sure it isn't an abstain!

Anyone who disobeys the direct orders of our Lord I will seek out and destroy personally or send one of my loyal samurai to do the job!

Get your non-abstention vote in now!



Well, I´m not buying the case against Stephen.

I´ll place my vote on Sigurd, perhaps we can create a tie. Let the gods decide!

vote: Sigurd


Question: Is it a standard procedure in huge mafia games that one player (Kage) replaces another one?

It happens quite often that if someone can't commit time to the game like they thought they could they get replaced... especially in a game as popular as this one...

Thanks, and thanks to glyphz too.

[TinCow]

Unfortunately the silent ones are in no danger of being lynched :no:


Sigurd is most definitely in danger of being lynched now. With a post count of 2, I think he qualifies as silent.

[Csargo]

Unvote:, Vote:Sigurd

Yay for ties!!!

[FactionHeir]

That is true, though Sigurd hasn't even voted D1.

[shlin28]

Too many lurkers :yes:

*Looks at himself*

:sweatdrop:

I really do not see the case against Stephen Asen - so what if he posted before the night write-up was posted? I believe I did too... as I am sure many others.

On the other hand we got lurkers, who are unlikely to be mafia either, but since in this game each mafia group has tons of teammates I guess it is still possible...

Vote: Sigurd

Also, Olavi says he was going to be inactive - yet in the write-up it seems he is a bad guy who had done some night action... so that suggests he has active teammates?

[shlin28]

FH why did you remove this part from your last post?

Btw, something struck me as odd just now.
We got 64 players. 63 as CA can't vote. 3 got offed N1, so 60 alive. Yet if you tally all the votes + Andres' count of non voters, that number doesn't fit. So are there roles other than CA that can't vote either?!:inquisitive:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Fos:shlin

[shlin28]

Yay I got FoSed!

[FactionHeir]

Because I realized I didn't count the votes on ATPG :grin2:
And I sent it as a PM to Andres because his non voting count is 13 when it really is 12.

Happy? :tongue2:

[AggonyDuck]

What does FoS mean anyway?

[Andres]

Voting concluded. Stand by for execution.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Just caught up with the rapid voting (sorry, finally installed ETW :shame:).

Beskar: PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE do not go backwards and edit an old tally. PLEASE just post a new tally wherever the thread is then. This really messes up a vote tracking effort, as I end up backtracking to figure out what I missed, only to notice that I haven't missed but then I have to adjust for backing up. :wall: :wall: :wall:

I know it is not as sacrosanct as votes -- which should never be edited for obvious reasons, but please.....

[Husar]

I guess I'm late then, to vote abstain. :sweatdrop:

I get this feeling that Sigurd will come and be angry that we lynched him while he had some real life stuff to deal with...
I mean if he gets lynched, I didn't count but it looked like it.

Please excuse me now while I kill my notebook and never come back... :wall:

[Andres]

~~~ Swords in the Moon ~~~






Day 2 - Conclusion


https://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t2/AndresTheCunning/Swords%20in%20the%20Moon/sneeuwjapan2.jpg




Hour of the Monkey

" Snow slowly fell down
" I tried to grab it quickly
" and then it was gone

Saruwatari Taiki (Sigurd) put down the pencil. The sheer beauty of the moment brought him to tears. Tears of happiness. He bowed deeply for his master before slowly rolling up the parchment and sealing it. Calmly he turned to his comrades and smiled at those good men gathered in the courtyard.

Saruwatari took the clean knife that was on the white cushion in front of him.

The last rays of sunlight flickered on the steel.

The condemned man looked up and watched the sky. He then lowered his eyes to enjoy the scenery of the mountains one last time.

After a long, deep breath, he opened his white kimono a bit and placed the sharp knife into position. His face remained emotionless when it pierced through the skin into his flesh. Before he could lose his selfcontrol, the sword of his kaishakuninended his life.

Takeda nodded respectfully to the body of Saruwatari Taiki, stood up and left, without adding any comment.



~~~

Tally:

Sigurd: 10 (Quintus.JC, Ichigo, shlin28, Kukrikhan, GeneralHankerchief, Chimpyang, AggonyDuck, Louis VI the Fat, Haudegen, TinCow) :skull:

Stephen Assen: 9 (CountArach, Gregoshi, pevergreen, Captain Blackader, Reenk Roink, Tristan de Castelreng, Beskar, El Diablo, Beefy187)

Beskar: 4 (Death is yonder, Kagemusha, atheotes, Stephen Assen)
AggonyDuck: 2 (Sasaki, Yaropolk)
TinCow: 1 (YLC)
TosaInu: 1 (Thermal Mercury)
Peasant Phil : 1 (glyphz)
YLC: 1 (Glenn)
Sasaki Kojiro: 1 (LittleGrizzly)
Yaropolk: 1 (woad&fangs)

Abstain: 4 (FactionHeir, Ignoramus, Rhyfelwyr, Psychonaut)

No vote: 20 (Husar, Yoyoma1910, Caius, ajaxfetish, Gobbledygook, Crazed Rabbit, taka, White_Eyes:D, TosaInu, Dutch_guy, Peasant Phil, Seamus Fermanagh, Warluster, Chaotix27, Sigurd, Jolt, Xehh II, AVSM, Banquo's Ghost, Beaver)


~~~

Challenges:
1. YLC challenges Seamus
2. Ignoramus challenges Ichigo
3. Sasaki challenges AggonyDuck
4. Quintus.JC challenges Beskar


~~~


Alive (54):
TinCow
Thermal Mercury
Quintus.JC
GeneralHankerchief
FactionHeir
Caius
Glenn
pevergreen
Beefy187
Ichigo
Warluster
White_Eyes:D
Sasaki Kojiro
Stephen Assen
Peasant Phill
Kukrikhan
Captain Blackadder
A Very Super Market
Louis VI the Fat
Gobbledygook
Psychonaut
LittleGrizzly
Gregoshi
taka
Jolt
shlin28
YLC
Reenk Roink
Rhyfelwyr
Beaver
AggonyDuck
El Diablo
Beskar
atheotes
Chaotix27
Ibn-Khaldun
CountArach
Ignoramus
Husar
Death is yonder
Tristan de Castelreng
Chimpyang
Yoyoma1910
TosaInu
Seamus Fermanagh
Banquo's Ghost
Crazed Rabbit
Haudegen
woad&fangs
Xehh II
ajaxfetish
glyphz
Dutch_guy
Yaropolk


Killed (7):
Khazaar
spL1tp3r50nal1ty
Lord Winter
The Spartan
Iskander III
Shinseikhaan
Olavi


Fallen in battle (1):
Northnovas


Lynched (2):
Askthepizzaguy
Sigurd


WoG/Suicide (0):



~~~


It's now night. PM's please. Orders have to reach me at 20.30 (GMT+1), that's +/- 23 hours from now.





:bow:

[FactionHeir]

So when do you WoG?

[Prince Cobra]

It seems I was pardoned by my fellow samurais. I will hide my death poem until my time comes. I am grateful to those who supported me and I will try to win the trust and support of those who distrusted me. Yet, no ninja or traitor shall be pardoned!

I did not know much about Sigurd and I can only hope that we were lucky enough to condemn the right person. Let this be a lesson to all those who stay idle.

SemiOOC: To sleep or not to sleep? That's the question I face! :curtain:

[Andres]

So when do you WoG?

That's based on inactivity in the thread. I'm usually kinda lenient. As it stands now, Warluster and Peasant Phil are closest to WoG. If I manage to find replacements, I'll replace them though.

[Gregoshi]

SemiOOC: To sleep or not to sleep? That's the question! :curtain:
I'd sleep. Everyone who was killed was awake. Even if you hear something - DON'T WAKE UP! So says Sadako. :bow:

[LittleGrizzly]

To my loyal samurai, you prove your undying loyalty by following my lead in the voting... but your lord would also appreciate your counsel in this matter.. as there is no bigger fool than that which can not see past his own opinion!

Such a shame it is to see another honourable warriors life wasted in such a fashion... a thousand curses upon the traitors and ninja's that caused us to shame this man into ending his life to prove his loyalty to the takeda way...

OOC: Its a shame to loss Sigurd, i really didn't see that massive bandwagon dissapating... or the one on sigurd build up so quickly, Sigurd seems to have been lynched a few times recently for lurking... and i always feel bad for doing it... bet he was really busy and looking forward to the game as well, ahh well i guess i feel less guilty than going fo a first timer...

EVERYONE SEND YOUR DUEL SCORE TO OUR GREAT LORD TAKEDA (Count Arach) NOW!

Our great leader can then inform us of those unwilling to share thier information with our most honourable lord....

[Prince Cobra]

To my loyal samurai, you prove your undying loyalty by following my lead in the voting... but your lord would also appreciate your counsel in this matter.. as there is no bigger fool than that which can not see past his own opinion!

Such a shame it is to see another honourable warriors life wasted in such a fashion... a thousand curses upon the traitors and ninja's that caused us to shame this man into ending his life to prove his loyalty to the takeda way...

OOC: Its a shame to loss Sigurd, i really didn't see that massive bandwagon dissapating... or the one on sigurd build up so quickly, Sigurd seems to have been lynched a few times recently for lurking... and i always feel bad for doing it... bet he was really busy and looking forward to the game as well, ahh well i guess i feel less guilty than going fo a first timer...



Yet, we can not only exterminate the seasoned players... Sooner or later, first timers will also fall. :bow:

[Kagemusha]

I think that one bandwagon was just replaced with another one. If Sigurd was indeed anti town, we got lucky with this lynch. It is more likely that we just lost one of us in vain.

Like a Cherry Blossom
We bloom fast and whither alike
Wind blows and we are gone

[Andres]

EVERYONE SEND YOUR DUEL SCORE TO OUR GREAT LORD TAKEDA (Count Arach) NOW!



It's ok to send a pm like:


Hi, my battle rating is X


However, DO NOT quote from your role pm in private and DO NOT mention your character name.

That is all.

[TinCow]

A lurker has no one but himself to blame for his own lynch. If Sigurd had a real life reason for being absent, he could have just posted that. He's been posting regularly on other parts of the forum since the game started, just not in here.

[Csargo]

:angry: shlin28 :angry:

[Kagemusha]

A lurker has no one but himself to blame for his own lynch. If Sigurd had a real life reason for being absent, he could have just posted that. He's been posting regularly on other parts of the forum since the game started, just not in here.

But has going after lurkers ever shown to be a winning tactic for the town?

[FactionHeir]

That's based on inactivity in the thread. I'm usually kinda lenient. As it stands now, Warluster and Peasant Phil are closest to WoG. If I manage to find replacements, I'll replace them though.

What about Dutch, Chaotix and Xehh?

[Andres]

What about Dutch, Chaotix and Xehh?

Peasant Phil and Warluster are the only ones who haven't made a single in-game post yet.

[seireikhaan]

The pineapple samurai is not pleased. :stwmean:

[Gregoshi]

The pineapple samurai is not pleased. :stwmean:
You were my favourite...except for the hornets & flies that you attracted.

[atheotes]

To my loyal samurai, you prove your undying loyalty by following my lead in the voting... but your lord would also appreciate your counsel in this matter.. as there is no bigger fool than that which can not see past his own opinion!

Such a shame it is to see another honourable warriors life wasted in such a fashion... a thousand curses upon the traitors and ninja's that caused us to shame this man into ending his life to prove his loyalty to the takeda way...

OOC: Its a shame to loss Sigurd, i really didn't see that massive bandwagon dissapating... or the one on sigurd build up so quickly, Sigurd seems to have been lynched a few times recently for lurking... and i always feel bad for doing it... bet he was really busy and looking forward to the game as well, ahh well i guess i feel less guilty than going fo a first timer...

EVERYONE SEND YOUR DUEL SCORE TO OUR GREAT LORD TAKEDA (Count Arach) NOW!

Our great leader can then inform us of those unwilling to share thier information with our most honourable lord....

I will obey our great leader only! Will send the battle rating when our LORD commands us to do so :stwshame:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

It's ok to send a pm like:




However, DO NOT quote from your role pm in private and DO NOT mention your character name.

That is all.

bahahaha, CountArach is going to get spammed!

[shlin28]

My Lord Shingen has recieved my unworthy information :bow:

[TinCow]

But has going after lurkers ever shown to be a winning tactic for the town?

:shrug: Maybe, maybe not. However, leaving lurkers alone has certainly been demonstrated to be a losing tactic.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Diana was the godfather in inishmore...taka was a demon in settlement...

[seireikhaan]

TinCow- I will bring the HAMMER down upon you.

[TinCow]

TinCow- I will bring the HAMMER down upon you.

Hammer?! Please, don't hurt me!

[Yaropolk]

Stop! Hammertime!

:belly:

[seireikhaan]

You knew entirely well why Sigurd isn't active, yet you cheered on a bandwagon regardless. Cheap move.

[TinCow]

You knew entirely well why Sigurd isn't active, yet you cheered on a bandwagon regardless. Cheap move.

If Sigurd's real life situation was interfering with his ability to participate why did he (1) sign up for this game and (2) post all over the forums while the game was going on, but not in here?

[seireikhaan]

If Sigurd's real life situation was interfering with his ability to participate why did he (1) sign up for this game and (2) post all over the forums while the game was going on, but not in here?
1) A combination of nostalgia and habit, most likely.

2) "All over?" Where? I haven't seen him much. :inquisitive: By all means, point out his plethora of posts. Links would be welcome.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Ooh OOC drama! :drama2:

[GeneralHankerchief]

He's been quite active in "Council of the Magi", in addition to a few administrative things in the Gameroom (commenting on a recently-renamed game and responding to the Capo II necro-post). A simple search of all of Sigurd's posts reveals this.

[seireikhaan]

So, let's see... We've got about, lets see, 3 posts in the last two days in Council O' the Magi, none of which have anything that wouldn't take more than a minute or two to make. One analytical post the day before.

And lets not forget that there's a teeeeency bit of difference in analyzing a game with 6 people alive and one with 55 alive. Nevermind that its pretty rare for anything of consequence that happens this early in a large game, and I'm stunned that people can think it suspicious that Sigurd was putting more focus on a game approaching the end than this one which has so far to go.

[Reenk Roink]

Unvote Stephen Asen
Vote Sasaki

I would ask my loyal samurai to change thier votes as well if possible..

That bandwagon is a huge conversation killing machine and quite easy to get behind, the main reason for that is its probably one of the better cases available to get behind, as there doesn't seem to be much going for anything else...

that said

Midgard 2 and Settlement. In both of those games numerous townies fought or tried to fight duels. For whatever reason, dueling appears to appeal to townies even though it hurts the town.

Dueling usually works out bad for the town... and you are very enthusiastic for the challenge... maybe not scummy but not paticularly helpful...

(that and spreading the votes out a bit more would help things...)

Im not too sure about the suspicion on Beskar.. the main reason i would suspect him is because is because he's making a fairly decent well thought out case... but that doesn't seem like a good reason to lynch him..

Edit: I also have to admit i don't like massively bandwagoning a new player on the 2nd round... feels a bit nasty..

Unvote: Stephen Asen
Vote: Sasaki Kojiro

:happyg:

[LittleGrizzly]

bahahaha, CountArach is going to get spammed!

:laugh4::laugh4:



Unvote: Stephen Asen
Vote: Sasaki Kojiro


:laugh4::laugh4:

Sending my pm to our mighty leader, I ask my loyal samurai to do so also.

[Caius]

Sending my pm to our mighty leader, I ask my loyal samurai to do so also.
You have a loyal samurai under your command... How can come

[taka]

vote: Stephen Asen

because CountArach also voted and i have not been catching up with thread

[LittleGrizzly]

IC: I started as a lowly samurai but through my prowess, honour and my inspiration to my fellow men I have gained followers, only so that I may serve our mighty Lord Takeda better

OOC: Well umm reenk offered his alligence to the first that requested it, and pever as well. Since then i have upgraded my role somewhat.... or at least upgraded the character i am roleplaying...

Edit: Ohh Taka, now you vote!

~;)

[Sasaki Kojiro]

In that case pever should die.

[Caius]

Stop voting, the day has concluded.

[ajaxfetish]

Dang it, I missed the voting. I've got to figure out how Andres' schedule fits together with mine. Looks like the deadline's while I'm at work (not a job I can post from, unfortunately), so I'll either have to post my vote well ahead of the cutoff and miss all the last-minute info and any coordination attempts, or miss out on voting. Bummer. Beskar's aggressive self-defense is the most suspicious thing in my mind. He's just not letting up.

Ajax

edit: I know some of the abbreviations, but could anyone clue me in on WIFOM and OOC?

[TinCow]

2) "All over?" Where? I haven't seen him much. :inquisitive: By all means, point out his plethora of posts. Links would be welcome.

Perhaps "all over" was an exaggeration. However, he has most definitely been active. I think six (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=2214362#post2214362) posts (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=2214492#post2214492) in (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=2216315#post2216315) another (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=2216648#post2216648) mafia (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=2217100#post2217100) game (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=2217119#post2217119) is sufficient proof of that.

In any case, I voted Sigurd when he had 2 votes and the leading lynch candidate had ~12. I just wanted to get Sigurd talking and said so, I was not after his actual death. I considered switching my vote off him when the bandwagon started, but I thought about it and couldn't come up with any reason to do so. I did not find anyone suspicious enough for a lynch, so Sigurd was as good a choice as any.

I find your claims that I "cheered" on the bandwagon dubious at best. I made a grand total of two posts the entire day that discussed Sigurd. The first gave my reason for voting for him, which was perfectly legitimate and made at a time when I thought there wasn't any chance he would be lynched. The second simply pointed out that he was in danger of being lynched due to lurking. The only thing it is fair to accuse me of is silence, which is perfectly true. I sat back and watched the lynch happen and was curious to see how far it would go so I said nothing. Since there are several other moderators in here who did the same thing, why are you so uppity about me in particular?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

OOC: Out Of Character
WIFOM: Whoa, I'm Freaking Out Man

[LittleGrizzly]

WIFOM: Whoa, I'm Freaking Out Man

:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:

sig worthy...

[Thermal]

challenge: Dutch_Guy


:evil:

[Splitpersonality]

WIFOM: Whoa, I'm Freaking Out Man

:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:

sig worthy...

done and done :P

[seireikhaan]

Perhaps "all over" was an exaggeration. However, he has most definitely been active. I think six (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=2214362#post2214362) posts (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=2214492#post2214492) in (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=2216315#post2216315) another (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=2216648#post2216648) mafia (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=2217100#post2217100) game (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=2217119#post2217119) is sufficient proof of that.

In any case, I voted Sigurd when he had 2 votes and the leading lynch candidate had ~12. I just wanted to get Sigurd talking and said so, I was not after his actual death. I considered switching my vote off him when the bandwagon started, but I thought about it and couldn't come up with any reason to do so. I did not find anyone suspicious enough for a lynch, so Sigurd was as good a choice as any.

I find your claims that I "cheered" on the bandwagon dubious at best. I made a grand total of two posts the entire day that discussed Sigurd. The first gave my reason for voting for him, which was perfectly legitimate and made at a time when I thought there wasn't any chance he would be lynched. The second simply pointed out that he was in danger of being lynched due to lurking. The only thing it is fair to accuse me of is silence, which is perfectly true. I sat back and watched the lynch happen and was curious to see how far it would go so I said nothing. Since there are several other moderators in here who did the same thing, why are you so uppity about me in particular?
1) Again- end game =/= start of game. This game has just started, there are few leads thus far. If Sigurd has little time to spare, he will put it towards the game that is inching towards end phase. As I said, its much easier to analyze when there is 6 or 8 people than when there is 55+ people. There isn't nearly as much to be gained from Sigurd plunging into this one as compared to the Magi game. That he would take the first couple rounds off is no wonder, and is in fact something he's done recently in large games regardless of his role.

2) "To get him talking"... Oh how I hate this phrase. "I voted him to get talking". "Oh, what a scummy response, look how defensive he's getting!" "To get him talking" is nothing more than laying a trap for whomever you choose. Either they come to the thread, respond to you, and are thus marked scummy for being "defensive", or they do not come back to the thread and are lynched. Great couple of choices. If it was "just to get him talking" you should have taken your vote back when it came down to crunch time so he could have another couple days to "get talking". You didn't, which really bugs me.

3) What does being a moderator have to do with any of this? :inquisitive: I'm picking on you for two reasons: 1) For the friggin' "to get him talking line". 2) Because you are a highly, highly dangerous mafioso; you did not win that HoF award for nothing.

[Thermal]

OOC: Out Of Character
WIFOM: Whoa, I'm Freaking Out Man

OOC: Old oval clocks!
WIFOM: whoa, your a 'Weird Idiotic Freaky Old Man' my friend :yes:

[woad&fangs]

who is peverpurple?

[Thermal]

who is peverpurple?

peverpurple is peverpurple :yes:

[Rhyfelwyr]

And peverblue_ is peverblue_, although once upon a time he might have been known as Rhyfelwyr...

[Gregoshi]

Another <insert "two"> much less obvious name changes. :wall: Great. I'm gettin' peeved.

[woad&fangs]

I thought peverblue was Vuk....? Now I'm thouroughly confused:dizzy2:

Can the ninjas please kill the pevers to lessen the confusion? I'll give a balloon for each pever killed:balloon3:

[Splitpersonality]

I'll give a balloon for each pever killed:balloon3:


<_<

*slowly exits thread*

[Rhyfelwyr]

You seem to be confusing peverblue with peveblue_

It's all in the underscore.

[LittleGrizzly]

I figure if we work together we can sort out this problem...

We lynch a pever, get CA to choose a player with a high duel score to challenge the other, and the town can request that the traitors and ninjs work with them to remove another few pever's. I figure after one day and night we'll only have the one left, if we keep the green one it will be less work remembering...

[TinCow]

1) Again- end game =/= start of game. This game has just started, there are few leads thus far. If Sigurd has little time to spare, he will put it towards the game that is inching towards end phase. As I said, its much easier to analyze when there is 6 or 8 people than when there is 55+ people. There isn't nearly as much to be gained from Sigurd plunging into this one as compared to the Magi game. That he would take the first couple rounds off is no wonder, and is in fact something he's done recently in large games regardless of his role.

As I said, he could have at least posted just to say he was busy. Sigurd said he was busy in RL in the Chicago game and then went on to win as a lurker mafioso. That makes me wary of a lurker Sigurd, and I see no reason to apologize for it. :shrug:


2) "To get him talking"... Oh how I hate this phrase. "I voted him to get talking". "Oh, what a scummy response, look how defensive he's getting!" "To get him talking" is nothing more than laying a trap for whomever you choose. Either they come to the thread, respond to you, and are thus marked scummy for being "defensive", or they do not come back to the thread and are lynched. Great couple of choices. If it was "just to get him talking" you should have taken your vote back when it came down to crunch time so he could have another couple days to "get talking". You didn't, which really bugs me.

If you say so. I can't remember when I've ever used the 'defensive' attack on anyone. It's not a strong one IMO. I simply like to have people contributing in the game. The way I play, the more that other people post, the better I think my odds of victory. Thus, I try and encourage active participation.


3) What does being a moderator have to do with any of this? :inquisitive: I'm picking on you for two reasons: 1) For the friggin' "to get him talking line". 2) Because you are a highly, highly dangerous mafioso; you did not win that HoF award for nothing.

I'm confused now. I was responding to the "You knew entirely well why Sigurd isn't active" bit. I assumed you were talking about something Sigurd had mentioned to other mods a while ago about having a reduced time schedule due to RL things. I assumed he had told you about this as well, hence your statement. Since this does not appear to be the case, why exactly did you think I "knew entirely well" the reason Sigurd was absent?

[Rhyfelwyr]

I figure if we work together we can sort out this problem...

We lynch a pever, get CA to choose a player with a high duel score to challenge the other, and the town can request that the traitors and ninjs work with them to remove another few pever's. I figure after one day and night we'll only have the one left, if we keep the green one it will be less work remembering...

Trying to make a new bandwagon are we? This is suspicious to say the least...

[LittleGrizzly]

Trying to make a new bandwagon are we? This is suspicious to say the least...

I don't even now who you are !!

That and my post contained jus' a lil' sarcasm...

[Beefy187]

Phew... Good thing I havn't joined the pever brigade yet :sweatdrop:

iirc pever blue is vuk and pever purple is Thermal Mercury. You can just check by reading through their public profile

[PershsNhpios]

This game is rocketing forth faster than Capo II!

I don't quite understand why Sigurd was lynched but the couple of players who were eager to come forth and save Stephen Asen as soon as opportunity permitted make me more suspicious of him.

Well, there is little I can comment on, so I will address the only claim against me in my absence;

Lord Takeda, you have withdrawn your attack on me anyway, but you must also realise that I had no idea what Northnovas' name was before I duelled with him.

For this reason it may give the town more clues and understanding if everyone writes out their character name in their signature.

I believe mine is Fujimo Yushiro.

[glyphz]

peverpurple is peverpurple :yes:

And peverblue_ is peverblue_, although once upon a time he might have been known as Rhyfelwyr...

<_<

*slowly exits thread*
Oookay...:inquisitive: What kind of outbreak has just been unleashed here...

:edit:

Me thinks, one faction has just shown their true colors.
Y'all know what that means...
:campfire:

[CountArach]

Alright two requests:

1) CAN EVERYONE SEND ME THEIR DUEL RATINGS NOW PLEASE - I liked the feeling of seeing that I had 12 new unread PMs. Thanks for that whoever suggested it :wink: . Seriously though this has helped me already and I have a couple of suspicions...
2) Can those who are part of the 'peverbrigade' please put their old username as their Member Title at least? I have no idea who is who any more and that just ruins it for everyone...

[LittleGrizzly]

1) CAN EVERYONE SEND ME THEIR DUEL RATINGS NOW PLEASE - I liked the feeling of seeing that I had 12 new unread PMs. Thanks for that whoever suggested it :wink: .

:laugh4::laugh4:

Seriously though this has helped me already and I have a couple of suspicions...

I live only to serve you lord.

Some kind of hint of who's who would help, at least when there were 2 i knew one was pever and thought the other was vuk...

At least spL1tp350naL1ty still has his sig with his name in it...

[Splitpersonality]

It's also my member comment thingy XD


also, I tried to change my name back and it said it was already in use, am I :daisy:?

[CountArach]

It's also my member comment thingy XD


also, I tried to change my name back and it said it was already in use, am I f'd?
I believe you have to wait at least a month to change it back.

[GeneralHankerchief]

I hereby announce that it is my intention to challenge each and every single one of the peverviruses to a duel next round.

[Splitpersonality]

Oh daisies :(


Challenge each and every pever

Are duels verses dead players allowed? @_@

[pevergreen]

I'm sorry guys. But its great fun! Join us! :yes:

Look on the funny side of it at least.

[LittleGrizzly]

Are duels verses dead players allowed? @_@

Well errm probably not, I wouldn't worry anyway the outcome of a duel is unlikely to affect you...

Besides GH is only allowed to issue one challenge... I don't see him using it on a dead player...

[GeneralHankerchief]

I'm still going to challenge them all out of total irritation. If they're cowardly enough to not see that I seek battle with them and challenge me to a duel, then let them live with that shame.

There, that's my RP attempt for the week.

[Splitpersonality]

Then I shall challenge you GH!!

Hoo ha *karate noises*

[TinCow]

pever translation chart:


pevergreen = pevergreen
peverblue = Vuk
Peverblue_ = Rhyfelwyr
Peverpurple = Thermal Mercury aka 777Ares777
PeverMauve = spL1tp3r50naL1ty

[Thermal]

I'm still going to challenge them all out of total irritation. If they're cowardly enough to not see that I seek battle with them and challenge me to a duel, then let them live with that shame.

There, that's my RP attempt for the week.

accepted

[KukriKhan]

I sincerely hope that Sigurd just couldn't find the time to participate in our game - any RL drama that might have kept him away from us is not deserved by such a fine man. Really. :bow:

I voted for him (second, before the bandwagon) after Louis' lament, missing his brilliant analytical skills, with which lament I agreed.

In my experience, Sigurd can parse posts, and assign accurate motivations, better than anyone I have seen. I think it comes from his training in formal debate; he really can 'see' and understand all sides of an issue/problem. A quiet atheist, he easily slipped into the "God exists" mode in an ancient backroom debate thread - just because it was his assigned side. He muted the opposing view in less than 4 posts/exchanges.

I hoped that seeing his name bolded, if he quickly scanned this thread, would propel him into exercising a bit of his expertise. Didn't happen.

But, I don't lose hope; Sigurd has been known to speak (sagely) from the grave, so we may yet see contributions from him.

I can relate to ajaxfetish's sorrow:

Dang it, I missed the voting. I've got to figure out how Andres' schedule fits together with mine. Looks like the deadline's while I'm at work (not a job I can post from, unfortunately), so I'll either have to post my vote well ahead of the cutoff and miss all the last-minute info and any coordination attempts, or miss out on voting. Bummer.

I can read and participate in mornings and evenings (my time; the rest of the day is work-type afk-time). It's why I'm determined to get a vote in on day-phases before work, even on flimsy evidence (ala my vote for Glen d1; sorry Dude; no 'fense). I committed to the game, so I'll play it through. I don't understand why anyone does any differently. Lynching lurkers at start-game may not have proven a wise strategy, but I admit: it makes me feel good. And I've seen lurkers come out of obscurity in the end-game, only to SURPRISE! win, then gloat about it.

It's always amazing to me at Dénouement, to learn there were other conversations, and forums, and strategies operating, independent of the game-thread - while ignorant little townies like me get snuffed one-by-one, cuz we can't guess correctly who the bad guys are. I hate that. And I love that. It's why I play.

Well. This got longer than I intended.

Sorry Sigurd. Hope all is well.

[atheotes]

Alright two requests:

1) CAN EVERYONE SEND ME THEIR DUEL RATINGS NOW PLEASE - I liked the feeling of seeing that I had 12 new unread PMs. Thanks for that whoever suggested it :wink: . Seriously though this has helped me already and I have a couple of suspicions...

Our great Lord has spoken... :stwshame:

check your pm...

[Beefy187]

pever translation chart:

what? Theres two peverblues? :wall:

[Seamus Fermanagh]

RE: Name Changes

Put your cursor over their current avatar name in "hover" mode without clicking. Previous names are listed (:inquisitive: I don't think that's mod only, but....)


RE: Duels

GH, you may need to split up the work, you'll get volunteers to assist.


RE: "Defensive" response to pressure votes.

Most of the time, even as mafia, I will respond by withdrawing my pressure vote when the subject has made a useful response (like it as a defense or not). The real purpose is to draw them out and have evidence available for later. Drawing them out and hammering them anyway regardless of what they say is a bit too mafioso-like. Please note, I think Tincow and Kukri usually are pretty good about withdrawing pressure votes.

RE: Votes

Tis night, fellow samurai, sleep well.

[Thermal]

Hovering names over avatars doesn't show me there previous names, must be mod....

[GeneralHankerchief]

Nope, mod only. I'm an AM and I don't see anything.

[KukriKhan]

Hovering names over avatars doesn't show me there previous names, must be mod....

Why would a purple-ish pever hover over a name? Hmmm..

[Thermal]

Why would a purple-ish pever hover over a name? Hmmm..

By ab-whaling :feedback:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

By ab-whaling :feedback:

Hmm, feedback. Yes, my feedback is that I have no idea what you just said.

[Thermal]

Hmm, feedback. Yes, my feedback is that I have no idea what you just said.

ab sailing

ab whaling


:7ninja:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

ab sailing

ab whaling


:7ninja:

:stare:

[Thermal]

:stare:

I'll commit seppaku if you don't stop looking at me :bigcry:

[Gregoshi]

OOC: I've got a question for the panel that is causing me some confusion in trying to sort out roles with actions that have taken place: From the role call in the OP:


1 ninja master - 3 ninja : they get 3 kills each night

Is that read

1) "3 ninja, one of which is a master ninja"?; or
2) "1 master ninja and 3 regular ninja"?

If it is #1, then what is the probable benefit of the master ninja apart from assassinating? If it is #2, then what is the likely purpose of the master ninja?

Thanks for any clarification Clan Takeda can provide to this humble servant. :bow:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

#2 I think, and probably investigation immunity.

[Gregoshi]

Does that then mean that the master ninja's only purpose is being hard to ID? What does that do to the outcome of the game if the regular ninja are dead? Is it game over (keeping the traitors out of the equation for simplicity), townies win?

[GeneralHankerchief]

It's probably similar to a Godfather mechanic popular in other games - if and only if the ninja master is the only bad guy remaining, he can personally pick up the slack and kill.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

He may have ab-whaling ability as well. Remains to be seen.

[GeneralHankerchief]

:laugh4: That made my night. This Personal Finance paper is so not getting finished...

[Beskar]

Sorry for missing the end of the round and not updating my table, I was asleep. :sweatdrop:

Had an early night as night before, I went to bed very early to get up earlier to do some revision for the exam I had yesterday.

Though, what is amusing, people accused of the Stephen Asen vote to be a bandwagon, yet Sigurd vote was the bandwagon. :clown:

[seireikhaan]

I'm confused now. I was responding to the "You knew entirely well why Sigurd isn't active" bit. I assumed you were talking about something Sigurd had mentioned to other mods a while ago about having a reduced time schedule due to RL things. I assumed he had told you about this as well, hence your statement. Since this does not appear to be the case, why exactly did you think I "knew entirely well" the reason Sigurd was absent?
Well, because its been publicly posted about in at least two different games(Chicago I know), and in posts like this (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=2181455#post2181455) when Sasaki was re-promoted to moderator. Certainly anyone who's been paying attention in the gameroom(something Kukri may not have been doing and Louis almost certainly hasn't been doing) would know this.
*also, I can't see when other inviso-mods are online, I'm only an AM*

[Prince Cobra]

Sorry for missing the end of the round and not updating my table, I was asleep. :sweatdrop:

Had an early night as night before, I went to bed very early to get up earlier to do some revision for the exam I had yesterday.

Though, what is amusing, people accused of the Stephen Asen vote to be a bandwagon, yet Sigurd vote was the bandwagon. :clown:


I am indeed moved by your concern about my future.

Yes, there is some logic that the nomination and the execution of Sigurd happened too quickly. Are we lucky or not?

[Beskar]

Well, you are going to kill me tonight. So it is an end to me.