Swords in the Moon [Concluded]

[AggonyDuck]

I prefer the system as is.

Why? What advantage does it hold over the one I proposed?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Why? What advantage does it hold over the one I proposed?

Awesomeness.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Well, I've only read parts of the huge thread here, what with being rather busy in school.

First off, I am deeply offended Seamus did not classify me as a 'dangerous lurker'.

Second, vote: Beskar

He attacked CA after CA wanted everybody to vote shlin. Perhaps a reflex post defending his mafioso comrade.

Also, he wanted WoG's instead of replacements -> meaning less people for the mafia to kill.

CR

[AggonyDuck]

Awesomeness.

What is so awesome about it?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

What is so awesome about it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AA7Ge1xy54

[LittleGrizzly]

In fairness to Beskar he accidently made that vote count arach post, it was 5am for him and he was thinking CA made a good post, he actually edited out his error but i told him not to edit votes...

I suppose he could have been lying but i really don't see why he would vote CA im 99% sure hisexcuse was genuine...

By the way guys: Wouldn't it be possible to use the duels as a second lynch? Essentially we ensure that noone posts challenges without permission from Count Arach and then we force the second and third most suspicious samurai to battle it out? That way we can kill two suspicious samurai per day, which should help us a bit more than random challenges.

Thats how we basically used them in The Settlement, and i think we stopped alot of townies killing each other...

I can tell you as Mafia in Midgaard (where we had a duel system) it seemed that townies regularly killed each other in duels, and the only time a mafia fought in it he won his battle and wouldn't really have had any extra suspicion on him because of that win...

So basically in Midgaard it didn't help the town at all... though it did have the potential too if the one or two players with high duel scores had managed to challenge a mafia...

That event is very unlikely though...

I do not object to the using off two suspects to fight in a duel but it is kind of hard to organise the towns thinking on this point, for simplicity it may be best to leave CA as a judge of what duels could or should be fought, especially with 50 odd players it would be hard to agree what the town wants and get the challenge made in time in a day period...

Of course it is kinda fun just challenging and watching the battle... a few players where unhappy with our ue of the duels in settlement..

So in summary... controlling duelling is good for the town.... uncontrolled duelling is fun for the town...

[Kagemusha]

You should stop attacking your own arguments :book:

And you should not assume things. Anyone in his right mind can see that GH is just messing around. But when someone who acts in very consistent manner like you do. Suddenly changes his behaviour. That is something that caughts my attention. So stop being a smart ass and answer my question.~D

[Sasaki Kojiro]

And you should not assume things. Anyone in his right mind can see that GH is just messing around. But when someone who acts in very consistent manner like you do. Suddenly changes his behaviour. That is something that caughts my attention. So stop being a smart ass and answer my question.~D

I was considering challenging tincow, but thought I might try and get him lynched instead. Pretty soon we had our 4 duels and ylc had challenged tincow.

[AggonyDuck]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AA7Ge1xy54

Meh! Nothing awesome 'bout that. And if even it actually was awesome, how would it help the town more than my suggestion?

[Seamus Fermanagh]

CR:

I thought about it. Something in the tone of the fewish posts you've made said you're closer to getting wogged than lurking. I could be wrong.

[TinCow]

By the way guys: Wouldn't it be possible to use the duels as a second lynch? Essentially we ensure that noone posts challenges without permission from Count Arach and then we force the second and third most suspicious samurai to battle it out? That way we can kill two suspicious samurai per day, which should help us a bit more than random challenges.

Great in theory, impossible in practice. The problem is that it's unenforcible. The only way to get this to work is if there is some penalty for challenging without permission. The only penalty we can enforce is lynching, and if we have to lynch people based exclusively on challenging without permission, we have to ignore all other reasons for lynching. This kind of control was attempted in Midgard II and failed for that very reason.

[Haudegen]

shlin´s lynching seems like a foregone conslusion, but I´ll vote for him anyway.

vote: shlin

Stephen Asen seems scummy too. In the last day phase, Beskar´s bandwagon on Stephen didn´t really convince me. And it still makes little sense unless we make an assumption: Perhaps Stephen is required by his role-pm to post this Haiku in the game thread. Perhaps this was necessary to make his night action count... Perhaps he received a PM by the game host that reminded him of this and he just made it in time...

But this is just speculation on my part. I´d like to point out that my role-pm gives me no reasons to back up this assumption. In fact my role-pm has no night action, I´m just a samurai.

And let´s remember that scummy shlin´s intervention broke the tie and saved Stephen. As an experienced player he knew that this would make him look bad, but for some reason he seemed to be willing to pay this price. Hmm...

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Meh! Nothing awesome 'bout that. And if even it actually was awesome, how would it help the town more than my suggestion?

Are you insulting my namesake?

Or...possibly the skinny white guy play acting my namesake :sweatdrop:

Anyway, the real question you are asking is "what is the meaning of life?" and I feel that is beyond the scope of subjects for this thread.

[Beskar]

Just doing a quick skim over before I start doing my tally, it looks like shlin28 is going to get lynched for sure.



Second, vote: Beskar

He attacked CA after CA wanted everybody to vote shlin. Perhaps a reflex post defending his mafioso comrade.

As I stated earlier, this was a genuine mistake and I edited to correct it asap, however, others quoted it as it seemed to have been a busy time, so my stupid blunder was revealed.

I was informed that editing the change vote wasn't allowed, so I changed it back to what it originally was with the message saying I meant to change my vote to Shlin28 based on CountArach's post and made a post further down apologising for doing that, explaining what the vote was actually meant for.

Yes, it was a genuine careless blunder on my part, and I sincerely meant to put Shlin28 in as that vote. I don't mind being attacked for other reasons posting, however, out of game, that was a real error. Basically, imagine it if you was in my shoes, that you read CountArach's post but by pure accident put his name down and not Shlin28's when you posted it, then you realised your error and you edit your post to change it, but people saw it. You do want to sincerely apologise for it.

I know people might want to use cheats and excuses because this is a mafia-game, however, on this point, I am not playing part of the game or any game in this statement, just being clear and forward with that fact.

(Yeah, I post tl;dr when I am actually serious on a point.)



Also, he wanted WoG's instead of replacements -> meaning less people for the mafia to kill.

CR

I don't see what is wrong with that. Are the replacements certainly town members? Please tell me, where has Andres said that all the replacements which are actually new players in the game are all town members.

If he hasn't said that, I would prefer a WoG on the off-chance one of them was a Mafia-role player. It has been 3 days later, we have thoughts on people, and new people just get a free ride as no one knows to suspect them or not, it is like joining a mafia-game halfway through, no one has any idea if they are mafia or not, giving them free reign, especially if a mafia-role, to win the game by killing people.

Correct me if I am wrong, but this is entirely possible.

[AggonyDuck]

Great in theory, impossible in practice. The problem is that it's unenforcible. The only way to get this to work is if there is some penalty for challenging without permission. The only penalty we can enforce is lynching, and if we have to lynch people based exclusively on challenging without permission, we have to ignore all other reasons for lynching. This kind of control was attempted in Midgard II and failed for that very reason.

I don't quite understand your reasoning. If our Lord decrees that uncontrolled duels are prohibited, then those who challenge without permission are clearly disloyal towards our Lord and should be forced to commit seppuku. The goal of everyone here is to survive, even for the traitors among us and challenging without permission of our Lord is in conflict with that goal as it would bring a lot of suspicion on the challenger, so if we do enforce it with lynching the culprit, uncontrolled duels will end very quickly.

[Prince Cobra]

shlin´s lynching seems like a foregone conslusion, but I´ll vote for him anyway.

vote: shlin

Stephen Asen seems scummy too. In the last day phase, Beskar´s bandwagon on Stephen didn´t really convince me. And it still makes little sense unless we make an assumption: Perhaps Stephen is required by his role-pm to post this Haiku in the game thread. Perhaps this was necessary to make his night action count... Perhaps he received a PM by the game host that reminded him of this and he just made it in time...

But this is just speculation on my part. I´d like to point out that my role-pm gives me no reasons to back up this assumption. In fact my role-pm has no night action, I´m just a samurai.

And let´s remember that scummy shlin´s intervention broke the tie and saved Stephen. As an experienced player he knew that this would make him look bad, but for some reason he seemed to be willing to pay this price. Hmm...


Are you talking about me? Forgetting about something connected with Mafia or Interactive History? You must be joking.

About being just a samurai: most of pro-town agents are dead. And samurai can also make nice investigations, though a bit more primitive. Logic and luck are your best friends.

This Haiku was entirely my idea. From time to time my inspiration visits me. Haiku is not the only writing I have done after all. ~;)

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I don't quite understand your reasoning. If our Lord decrees that uncontrolled duels are prohibited, then those who challenge without permission are clearly disloyal towards our Lord and should be forced to commit seppuku. The goal of everyone here is to survive, even for the traitors among us and challenging without permission of our Lord is in conflict with that goal as it would bring a lot of suspicion on the challenger, so if we do enforce it with lynching the culprit, uncontrolled duels will end very quickly.

This a bad plan though. With the current system, we have one person killed by majority vote, and one by the hunch of some townie. Win-Win.

In your system, we have to lynch 1 or 2 townies who persist in dueling without permission (I will probably be one of them) which could lead to the death of 10 townies. And the gain? A duel between the 2nd and third lynch choices...who are...drum roll...based on townie hunches.

I don't mean to scoff at it though. It would be the ideal townie plan if the game worked on the premises that you are supposing it does. Though I would oppose that on the basis of the fun factor anyway.

I hope someone hosts a "texas mafia" again sometime...

[AggonyDuck]

This a bad plan though. With the current system, we have one person killed by majority vote, and one by the hunch of some townie. Win-Win.

In your system, we have to lynch 1 or 2 townies who persist in dueling without permission (I will probably be one of them) which could lead to the death of 10 townies. And the gain? A duel between the 2nd and third lynch choices...who are...drum roll...based on townie hunches.

And why would you persist with challenging people?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Many times when the game was over and the mafioso goes down in the final round/wins, you look back and see that a few people along the way thought they were guilty but never had enough evidence to take them down. Dueling feeds those "what if" feelings by giving townies a chance to fight for what they believe.

[Wishazu]

@ Count Arach, sorry about the delay in sending my battle rating, I`ve just got home from work and hadn`t seen this thread since I posted my vote last night.

Is it possible you could let me know what the highest rating you have received? I just want to know how mine compares against the top score.

Sorry to everyone else if my vote for Haudegen seems a little random, i just figured voting for another player who seemed inactive may inspire them to jump to defend themselves and get involved again. This doesn`t seem to have worked :no:

[AggonyDuck]

The fact, that we remove two of the top three lynch candidates per round, means that we will have to find new suspects faster instead of having them linger on for a few more rounds and with bad luck even forgotten. This also means that the hunches will get an opportunity, due to the fact that the Mafia seldom tends to remove the most suspicious players and target the less suspicious ones.

[Kagemusha]

I agree with Duckie. Just because something did not work in certain game does not mean it cant work on another one. The difference is that we have a clear rallying point in Lord Takeda. For me Sasaki´s attitude about loosing the fun factor to survival of the town is very scummy. After slin has been lynched he is my top candidate for next lynch, because it can be clearly seen that his goal is to diminish the numbers of the town.

[Gregoshi]

Gregoshi - you are a geisha. Stop fiddling with your make-up and speak, lass. What happened last night? You 'restored order to the universe', got killed, and said you had failed?

Help us out here...~:confused:


1) Last night someone found me merely "interesting", which hurt my feminine ego :sadg:, but it hurt not nearly as much as murdering me did - and completely destroying my theory that sleeping is safe. The final insult to injury was that I didn't even get to use my hairpin.:hairpin2:

2) Regarding "restored order to the universe": are you implying that cleaning up is "woman's work"? :angryg:

3) I failed because I can no longer serve my Lord Shingen in my fullest capacity. But at least I don't need to plug my nostils anymore for the stench from the pineapple, beef bone and pizza crust. I don't miss the hornets either. Flies are still a concern though if my body is not burned/buried soon.

4) Regarding knowledge I've gained, I have nothing I wish to contribute to the discussion of guilt - yet. With time, soil and water, the humble seed blooms into a beautiful flower. :winkg: I'll let the paranoia of the guilty stew on that. It is not like they can kill me again. :tongueg:

5) This may be the first and last time I can legitimately use froggy's emoticons, so I'm gonna use them all! :questiong: :embarassedg: :happyg: :loveg: :gring: :blankg: :hairpin3: :hairpin1: :annoyedg:

[TinCow]

The fact, that we remove two of the top three lynch candidates per round, means that we will have to find new suspects faster instead of having them linger on for a few more rounds and with bad luck even forgotten. This also means that the hunches will get an opportunity, due to the fact that the Mafia seldom tends to remove the most suspicious players and target the less suspicious ones.

Please explain how you are going to ensure the removal of two of the top three each round. You cannot control who issues challenges and you cannot control which challenge gets chosen if there is more than one. The only influence you have over the matter is the lynch vote, and in order for that to be an effective deterrent, you MUST lynch people who do not obey your system. This means going after these people even if there are better targets around for other reasons. The moment you let someone who broke the 'rules' off the hook, the deterrence effect vanishes.

If you think you can accomplish this, by all means go ahead and try. I just don't think it's possible to get it to work in the time we have left before we're all dead.

[Peasant Phill]

Finally I can vote.

vote: YLC

Why? Last night eliminated most of the pevers. This would in theory clear a fellow pever. I say eliminate the last pevers and you may eliminate a mafia member.

[Dutch_guy]

CA, you should have received my rating when you read this.


Dueling feeds those "what if" feelings by giving townies a chance to fight for what they believe.

Yes indeed, however as TinCow's post already highlighted is isn't a foolproof system and it works both ways as mafia can use their own 'hunches' as easily as the town, and accepting a challenge is something else entirely - that's up to the player, and the information gathered from a(n) decline/acceptence per sé is quite shallow also.

:balloon2:

[seireikhaan]

FoS- AggonyDuck.

[glyphz]

Vote: shlin28


*A scarred veteran walks into the hall*

I am Ichimaru Yoshiko, and I will protect my Lord with my life :bow:
I AM NOT LYING TO CA! I DID NOT INFLATE MY BATTLE RATING!

Done. Vote: Abstain

A true warrior never fears death.

To Stephen Asen:

When did I state I have a low battle rating? I always said I was a veteran samurai...

Condemned one.
If you are indeed telling the truth, including the high battle rating you claimed, try to reveal as much as you (possibly) can, now. (your current defense does nothing to convince anyone of your innocence:no:)
Perhaps all is not lost for you. Convince Lord Takeda (CountArach), and your fate might just make a turn around.
Perhaps

Besides, it would be a waste to lose a good sword arm outside of battle.

[AggonyDuck]

Please explain how you are going to ensure the removal of two of the top three each round. You cannot control who issues challenges and you cannot control which challenge gets chosen if there is more than one. The only influence you have over the matter is the lynch vote, and in order for that to be an effective deterrent, you MUST lynch people who do not obey your system. This means going after these people even if there are better targets around for other reasons. The moment you let someone who broke the 'rules' off the hook, the deterrence effect vanishes.

If you think you can accomplish this, by all means go ahead and try. I just don't think it's possible to get it to work in the time we have left before we're all dead.

I don't think that I can ensure it, but we as a collective can get it to work. If we agree on no-challenges without permission policy, then whoever challenges without permission is clearly either an uncooperative samurai or a traitor and deserves to die.

[Gregoshi]

Perhaps schlin is a Musashi-type. That would put him head and shoulders above everyone.

Relax Sasaki! It is merely a thought. :laugh4:

[atheotes]

Vote: shlin28

Condemned one.
If you are indeed telling the truth, including the high battle rating you claimed, try to reveal as much as you (possibly) can, now. (your current defense does nothing to convince anyone of your innocence:no:)
Perhaps all is not lost for you. Convince Lord Takeda (CountArach), and your fate might just make a turn around.
Perhaps

Besides, it would be a waste to lose a good sword arm outside of battle.


Good piece of Advice for Shlin...

but as a true servant:
Vote: Shlin :stwshame:

[Beskar]

Page 35 Tally List


Fatality: [The one who is going to get lynched.]

shlin28 20 CountArach, LittleGrizzly, Beskar, GeneralHankerchief, YLC, Sasaki Kojiro, Seamus Fermanagh, ajaxfetish, AggonyDuck, Death is yonder, Kagemusha, TinCow, KukriKhan, Beefy187, Glenn, Dutch_guy, Yaropolk, Reenk Roink, Haudegen, glyphz

YLC 4 El Diablo, White eyes, Ichigo, Peasant Phill

TinCow 3 Chimpyang, Husar, Tristan de Castelreng

Taka 2 Seamus Fermanagh, Captain Blackadder
Stephen Asen 2 woad&fangs, Louis VI the Fat

ajaxfetish 1 FactionHeir
Beskar 1 Crazed Rabbit
Haudegen 1 Wishazu
LittleGrizzly 1 Rhyfelwyr
GeneralHankerchief 1 Yoyoma1910


Abstain 3 Caius, taka, shlin28



Mortal Kombat: [Duels.]

GeneralHankerchief Vs Rhyfelwyr
Stephen Asen Vs ajaxfetish
El Diablo Vs YLC
YLC Vs TinCow
Chimpyang Vs Louis VI the Fat
White_eyes:D Vs YLC
Beefy182 Vs GeneralHankerchief
Glenn Vs YLC
Yoyoma1910 Vs Louis VI the Fat



Finger of Suspicion
Shlin28
Public Threats against Pevers
TinCow
LittleGrizzly
Reenk
Beskar (note (http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=3065247))
Stephen Asen x3
Chimpyang
Dutch-Guy
AggonyDuck


The Usual Suspects: [A section for those who keep cropping up from previous rounds.]

shlin28 A
Stephen Asen C
Beskar C
Sasaki Kojiro D
YLC D
Haudegen D
LittleGrizzly D




The rank system for the Usual Suspects:
Rank S [I]Special Recommend Lynch ASAP.
Rank A Strong High Possibility Mafia-role.
Rank B Popular Popular on the list.
Rank C Mild Common name on the list.
Rank D Weak Just cropped up once or twice.
Rank E Not Listed Not worth listing.

Ranks are decided upon position on the table and how many weeks. This is a trial of last two weeks and current scoring.

[AggonyDuck]

FoS- AggonyDuck.

What does FoS mean?

[Beskar]

Finger of Suspicion.

I am not sure what HoS, is, but probably Hand of Suspicion.

[Prince Cobra]

It's now 22:30 in Bulgaria and as I promised I will no longer delay it. Btw, after a short consideration the possibility of ajaxfetish to share something with me in private is very very low. I have no intention to wait more.
---------
The story of the samurai

So... I did not listen to Gregoshi's advice and stayed awake. I walked in the silent corridors of the palace scrutinising for the smallest sign of activity. The Gods helped me that night I hope since I suddenly saw strange activity in the room of ajaxfetish. No doubt, this samurai who was very inactive showed unexpected energy in writing his correspondence at night. With whom? This is a mystery. But he became one of my suspects.
----

OOC Elucidation

Wednesday between 23:30-0:30. In other words: I saw ajaxfetish PMing. At least 3 times in a very short period of time (I went to bed then since it was quite late). Switching from Swords of the Moon to Pming and back and I wonder what it means. And his name appeared in the Andres' profile page. I think this is enough reason to challenge him. I put my life at a stake.

This is posted with the knowledge and permission of Takeda Shingen, therefore the possibility this person to be pro-town is very, very low.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I agree with Duckie. Just because something did not work in certain game does not mean it cant work on another one. The difference is that we have a clear rallying point in Lord Takeda. For me Sasaki´s attitude about loosing the fun factor to survival of the town is very scummy. After slin has been lynched he is my top candidate for next lynch, because it can be clearly seen that his goal is to diminish the numbers of the town.

One of the benefits of Rule #1 is that you don't have to make up reasons to accuse me. A duel is going to be fought whether I challenged someone or not--ergo my challenges don't reduce the number of town. Such a strategy has minimal gain for a mafioso. The risk of dying in a duel does not mean much to a townie. Finally, what do you have to say about this--


GeneralHankerchief Vs Rhyfelwyr
Stephen Asen Vs ajaxfetish
El Diablo Vs YLC
YLC Vs TinCow
Chimpyang Vs Louis VI the Fat
White_eyes:D Vs YLC
Beefy182 Vs GeneralHankerchief
Glenn Vs YLC
Yoyoma1910 Vs Louis VI the Fat


Hmm? You just picked me because of rule #1--so say so.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

It's not 22:30 in Bulgaria and as I promised I will no longer delay it. Btw, after a short consideration the possibility of ajaxfetish to share something with me in private is very very low. I have no intention to wait more.
---------
The story of the samurai

So... I did not listen to Gregoshi's advice and stayed awake. I walked in the silent corridors of the palace scrutinising for the smallest sign of activity. The Gods helped me that night I hope since I suddenly saw strange activity in the room of ajaxfetish. No doubt, this samurai who was very inactive showed unexpected energy in writing his correspondence at night. With whom? This is a mystery. But he became one of my suspects.
----

OOC Elucidation

Wednesday between 23:30-0:30. In other words: I saw ajaxfetish PMing. At least 3 times in a very short period of time (I went to bed then since it was quite late). Switching from Swords of the Moon to Pming and back and I wonder what it means. And his name appeared in the Andres' profile page. I think this is enough reason to challenge him. I put my life at a stake.

This is posted with the knowledge and permission of Takeda Shingen, therefore the possibility this person to be pro-town is very, very low.

Hmm interesting. Hopefully mafia and not a pro town--but without knowing which the right move is to expose it.

[FactionHeir]

vote:ajaxfetish

Talk...please :whip:

[Beskar]

I put Finger of Suspicion on my Tally List now.

[Wishazu]

I think it`s too late to lynch Ajaxfetish now but I like Stephen Asen`s argument. I say we do in Ajax next time if Stephen loses his duel.

[Yaropolk]

Wednesday between 23:30-0:30. In other words: I saw ajaxfetish PMing. At least 3 times in a very short period of time (I went to bed then since it was quite late). Switching from Swords of the Moon to Pming and back and I wonder what it means. And his name appeared in the Andres' profile page. I think this is enough reason to challenge him. I put my life at a stake.

This is posted with the knowledge and permission of Takeda Shingen, therefore the possibility this person to be pro-town is very, very low.

Stephen - how do you check when someone is PMing?

P.S. I am AFK until Monday. My real life daimyo wants me to build a deck! Please dont WOG.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I think it`s too late to lynch Ajaxfetish now but I like Stephen Asen`s argument. I say we do in Ajax next time if Stephen loses his duel.

Best to wait on ajax anyway. He could be a pro town role--we need a claim before we would lynch him.

[Beskar]

I think Count Arach accidently posted some one's battle rating. I just remembered now. Either that, or it was a typing mistake or something.

Found the post (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2220026&postcount=931) but has been edited. I will just assume it was a typing mistake. There was a number next to 'A Very Super Market'.

[woad&fangs]

There are a lot of reasons a person could be PMing that have nothing to do with Swords in the Moon. The fact that Ajax has visited Andres user page is also not very incriminating. In large games like this, someone always gets incriminated with this kind of evidence and it is always WRONG.

edit: Ignore the content of this post.

[TinCow]

There are a lot of reasons a person could be PMing that have nothing to do with Swords in the Moon. The fact that Ajax has visited Andres user page is also not very incriminating. In large games like this, someone always gets incriminated with this kind of evidence and it is always WRONG.

True, but Stephen Asen said Ajax was regularly switching between viewing this thread and PMing. That's pretty solid evidence that he was PMing about this game. You and Sasaki are both correct that this in itself is not really incriminating and we should not lynch for it. However, it is worth probing for more information. If the PMing was innocent and meaningless, then it shouldn't be hard to prove.

Incidentally, this is why it is good to turn invisibility on.

[woad&fangs]

I actually agree with what you are saying. I made that post because I thought the day phase would be ending soon and if Ajax was suspected of having a role, the ninjas/samurai would kill him during the night which would be bad if he turned out to be pro town. However, now that I realize this is an extended day phase, I think that we should continue to pressure Ajax.

[Chimpyang]

True, but Stephen Asen said Ajax was regularly switching between viewing this thread and PMing. That's pretty solid evidence that he was PMing about this game. You and Sasaki are both correct that this in itself is not really incriminating and we should not lynch for it. However, it is worth probing for more information. If the PMing was innocent and meaningless, then it shouldn't be hard to prove.

Incidentally, this is why it is good to turn invisibility on.



Surely this would be a good reason for pro-town roles to switch invisibility off? If PMing is innocent - it should as you say to be provable - unless you have something to hide/need to make something up.

[Chimpyang]

Is it possible you could let me know what the highest rating you have received? I just want to know how mine compares against the top score.


Does nobody else not think this is at least a tiny bit suspicious?

[Wishazu]

how?

I don`t want to sit around waiting to be murdered in my sleep or whatever. I`ve only asked for the highest number to be posted, I didn`t ask for any names. I could be a battle rating of 5 which may sound high but what if there are people rated 15? then a 5 would be a bit pants and suggest dueling is probably not the way forward for me etc.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Wishazu, my rating is 25.

[Wishazu]

Thanks mate .

[FactionHeir]

Surely this would be a good reason for pro-town roles to switch invisibility off? If PMing is innocent - it should as you say to be provable - unless you have something to hide/need to make something up.

Care to explain why a bit earlier in the thread you switched invisibility off and called on everyone else to follow suit and now say the exact opposite?

[AggonyDuck]

Wishazu, my rating is 25.

Mine is 2. :shame:

[CountArach]

Is it possible you could let me know what the highest rating you have received? I just want to know how mine compares against the top score.
I'm not revealing to anyone for any reason - I see no reason to make that information public.

I think Count Arach accidently posted some one's battle rating. I just remembered now. Either that, or it was a typing mistake or something.

Found the post (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2220026&postcount=931) but has been edited. I will just assume it was a typing mistake. There was a number next to 'A Very Super Market'.
The "3" that was next to A Very Super Market was the number of posts he had in the thread, based on the list of people I was editing from.

[Gregoshi]

Does nobody else not think this is at least a tiny bit suspicious?
Men are always worried about how they compare to other men. "Yes Dear, you are THE BEST." It's another burden we women have to bare, but it does get old after awhile. :annoyedg:

[ajaxfetish]

It's now 22:30 in Bulgaria and as I promised I will no longer delay it. Btw, after a short consideration the possibility of ajaxfetish to share something with me in private is very very low. I have no intention to wait more.
---------
The story of the samurai

So... I did not listen to Gregoshi's advice and stayed awake. I walked in the silent corridors of the palace scrutinising for the smallest sign of activity. The Gods helped me that night I hope since I suddenly saw strange activity in the room of ajaxfetish. No doubt, this samurai who was very inactive showed unexpected energy in writing his correspondence at night. With whom? This is a mystery. But he became one of my suspects.
----

OOC Elucidation

Wednesday between 23:30-0:30. In other words: I saw ajaxfetish PMing. At least 3 times in a very short period of time (I went to bed then since it was quite late). Switching from Swords of the Moon to Pming and back and I wonder what it means. And his name appeared in the Andres' profile page. I think this is enough reason to challenge him. I put my life at a stake.

This is posted with the knowledge and permission of Takeda Shingen, therefore the possibility this person to be pro-town is very, very low.
First of all, sorry for not getting back to you sooner, Stephen Asen. I've been at work, and then with family all day. (my parents are visiting town for my sister's birthday, which was yesterday, and we spent this afternoon at Red Butte Garden's, which had a free day in celebration of Arbor Day, in case anyone cared) You should now have a PM in your inbox, and I sent it to CountArach as well, as you requested.

I'm not sure how the guild tracks pm-ing. Does it show you as pm-ing when you're reading pm's? How about if you're switching between composing a pm and reading the thread for necessary information? I ask because I sent only 2 pm's in the time Stephen Asen is referencing (which was afternoon for me, shortly after I get home from work and the main time I have available for this game). I certainly didn't send pm's "at least 3 times." I will happily share their substance, since everyone is curious and I didn't bother setting myself to invisible.

The first was sent to CountArach, and contained my battle rating, as LittleGrizzly suggested. Unfortunately, I had somehow overlooked or misunderstood the part where Andres said we couldn't share our role in private, so I included that as well. In hopes of rectifying that, I will belatedly make public that I am a veteran samurai. Sorry for that slip.

The second was sent to Andres, and will require a little explanation. In CapoII I played a townie, and had little success getting involved in any night action groups. I felt a little bored, so one night I sent a message to Seamus saying that my night action was watching "I Love Lucy" reruns. He thought it was funny and wrote it into the night write-up, though he altered it to fit the game's timeframe. When I got my role for this game, it came with no night actions, which I worried would bore me again during night phases, so I decided to try something similar. I asked Andres' permission, and then CountArach's as my master, to court the daughter of the local castellan during the course of the game. My hope was that Andres' would mention something of it in the nightly write-ups and give everyone something absurd and random to wonder about. Unfortunately (at least for me), he hasn't seen fit to include anything about it, but I sent him a night 2 action of meeting with the girl's father to obtain his leave, and a night 3 action of serenading the girl to the able accompaniment of my biwa (this was the pm Stephen Asen would have noticed). And unless I die, I plan to continue submitting roleplay but nongameplay night pm's to Andres and moving the relationship forward.

You can ask CountArach for confirmation on the pms I sent to him (both the battle rating one and the one, well 2 actually as he needed a reminder, about the courtship). It is up to him whether he will come to the defense of his humble servant.

Sorry for any confusion this may have caused, and I consider Stephen Asen absolved of his until-recently unexplained challenge.

:bow:
Ajax

[Beskar]

Page 36 Tally List


Fatality: [The one who is going to get lynched.]

shlin28 20 CountArach, LittleGrizzly, Beskar, GeneralHankerchief, YLC, Sasaki Kojiro, Seamus Fermanagh, ajaxfetish, AggonyDuck, Death is yonder, Kagemusha, TinCow, KukriKhan, Beefy187, Glenn, Dutch_guy, Yaropolk, Reenk Roink, Haudegen, glyphz

YLC 4 El Diablo, White eyes, Ichigo, Peasant Phill

TinCow 3 Chimpyang, Husar, Tristan de Castelreng

Taka 2 Seamus Fermanagh, Captain Blackadder
Stephen Asen 2 woad&fangs, Louis VI the Fat

ajaxfetish 1 FactionHeir
Beskar 1 Crazed Rabbit
Haudegen 1 Wishazu
LittleGrizzly 1 Rhyfelwyr
GeneralHankerchief 1 Yoyoma1910


Abstain 3 Caius, taka, shlin28



Mortal Kombat: [Duels.]

GeneralHankerchief Vs Rhyfelwyr
Stephen Asen Vs ajaxfetish
El Diablo Vs YLC
YLC Vs TinCow
Chimpyang Vs Louis VI the Fat
White_eyes:D Vs YLC
Beefy182 Vs GeneralHankerchief
Glenn Vs YLC
Yoyoma1910 Vs Louis VI the Fat



Finger of Suspicion
Shlin28
Public Threats against Pevers
TinCow
LittleGrizzly
Reenk
Beskar (note (http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=3065247))
Stephen Asen x3
Chimpyang
Dutch-Guy
AggonyDuck


The Usual Suspects: [A section for those who keep cropping up from previous rounds.]

shlin28 A
Stephen Asen C
Beskar C
Sasaki Kojiro D
YLC D
Haudegen D
LittleGrizzly D

The rank system for the Usual Suspects:
Rank S [I]Special Recommend Lynch ASAP.
Rank A Strong High Possibility Mafia-role.
Rank B Popular Popular on the list.
Rank C Mild Common name on the list.
Rank D Weak Just cropped up once or twice.
Rank E Not Listed Not worth listing.

Ranks are decided upon position on the table and how many weeks. This is a trial of last two weeks and current scoring.

[Kagemusha]

One of the benefits of Rule #1 is that you don't have to make up reasons to accuse me. A duel is going to be fought whether I challenged someone or not--ergo my challenges don't reduce the number of town. Such a strategy has minimal gain for a mafioso. The risk of dying in a duel does not mean much to a townie. Finally, what do you have to say about this--



Hmm? You just picked me because of rule #1--so say so.

Have you forgotten that i explained to you the previous day what raised my suspicions towards you. You threw two challenges with very light or even non existent proof of the other persons scummyness. You can explain to yourself that the reason im monitoring you is that because your status among mafia players. The real reason is that i find your actions strange to your playing style, not your normal style like you suggest yourself.

[Prince Cobra]

First of all, sorry for not getting back to you sooner, Stephen Asen. I've been at work, and then with family all day. (my parents are visiting town for my sister's birthday, which was yesterday, and we spent this afternoon at Red Butte Garden's, which had a free day in celebration of Arbor Day, in case anyone cared) You should now have a PM in your inbox, and I sent it to CountArach as well, as you requested.

I'm not sure how the guild tracks pm-ing. Does it show you as pm-ing when you're reading pm's? How about if you're switching between composing a pm and reading the thread for necessary information? I ask because I sent only 2 pm's in the time Stephen Asen is referencing (which was afternoon for me, shortly after I get home from work and the main time I have available for this game). I certainly didn't send pm's "at least 3 times." I will happily share their substance, since everyone is curious and I didn't bother setting myself to invisible.

The first was sent to CountArach, and contained my battle rating, as LittleGrizzly suggested. Unfortunately, I had somehow overlooked or misunderstood the part where Andres said we couldn't share our role in private, so I included that as well. In hopes of rectifying that, I will belatedly make public that I am a veteran samurai. Sorry for that slip.

The second was sent to Andres, and will require a little explanation. In CapoII I played a townie, and had little success getting involved in any night action groups. I felt a little bored, so one night I sent a message to Seamus saying that my night action was watching "I Love Lucy" reruns. He thought it was funny and wrote it into the night write-up, though he altered it to fit the game's timeframe. When I got my role for this game, it came with no night actions, which I worried would bore me again during night phases, so I decided to try something similar. I asked Andres' permission, and then CountArach's as my master, to court the daughter of the local castellan during the course of the game. My hope was that Andres' would mention something of it in the nightly write-ups and give everyone something absurd and random to wonder about. Unfortunately (at least for me), he hasn't seen fit to include anything about it, but I sent him a night 2 action of meeting with the girl's father to obtain his leave, and a night 3 action of serenading the girl to the able accompaniment of my biwa (this was the pm Stephen Asen would have noticed). And unless I die, I plan to continue submitting roleplay but nongameplay night pm's to Andres and moving the relationship forward.

You can ask CountArach for confirmation on the pms I sent to him (both the battle rating one and the one, well 2 actually as he needed a reminder, about the courtship). It is up to him whether he will come to the defense of his humble servant.

Sorry for any confusion this may have caused, and I consider Stephen Asen absolved of his until-recently unexplained challenge.

:bow:
Ajax

So basically, your are in the hands of Count Arach. Arach, what is the time on the Pm of ajaxfetish,master?
+
You switched swiftly three times in a short period to the Swords of the Moon and Pming (reading Pm or writing and whatever you like) and after that you started watching other threads.

OOC: Where is the Guild Clock????!!!!???

[Chimpyang]

Care to explain why a bit earlier in the thread you switched invisibility off and called on everyone else to follow suit and now say the exact opposite?

How is that the complete opposite? I am still calling for people to switch invisibility off as it is the aniti town roles that have the most to lose from it. I'm sorry, but hoping to pin me to something from you has gotten a bit desperate now.

[Prince Cobra]

Vote:Abstain

Although utterly disappointed by the lack of honour in shlin's behaviour.

Edit: The die is cast and the challenge won't be withdrawn

[Andres]

Voting concluded. Stand by for execution.

[Csargo]

Beskar (note (http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=3065247))

https://img18.imageshack.us/img18/7386/overruled.jpg

[Beskar]

Andres has got me all excited, I can't wait to see the method of execution.

[Andres]

~~~ Swords in the Moon ~~~



Day 3 - Conclusion.


https://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t2/AndresTheCunning/Swords%20in%20the%20Moon/birdinsnow.jpg



Hour of the Cock


Snow was falling out of the sky. A strong wind played with the white kimono of the condemned. His eyes were wide opened and he seemed to stare at the sky, a peaceful and happy expression on his face. The snow in his eyes didn’t hurt him.

In this time of the year, there weren’t many birds seen flying, but a brave little redbreast landed near the condemned. In a way, it was a beautiful scene: man and bird, together in harmony. It seemed as if the little redbreast was there to offer the soul of the condemned man a ride to the afterlife.

The bird suddenly jumped up and flew away, higher and higher and higher. Carrying the soul of the condemned?

Both samurai standing near the body of the man who was known as Ichimaru Yoshiko (shlin28) were touched by the beauty of the moment. They lifted the body and carried it over to the already prepared woodpile.

The Tiger nodded towards the body of a man who died honorably and went inside.

Another body was being carried to the woodpile. It was Nakajima Kaito (Xehh II). He had been sitting at the same spot for three days and three nights now. Earlier that day, a samurai had noticed that Nakajima hadn't been meditating like everybody else thought. Apparently, he had fallen asleep and was now frozen to dead.

While the woodpile was being lit, most samurai went to sleep, while the more unfortunate ones prepared for guard duty.


~~~



Tally:

shlin28 : 21 (Beefy187, TinCow, atheotes, Kagemusha, Haudegen, Beskar, GeneralHankerchief, ajaxfetish, Glenn, YLC, , Kukrikhan, LittleGrizzly, Seamus Fermanagh, AggonyDuck, Yaropolk, glyphz, CountArach, Death is yonder, Dutch_guy, Reenk Roink, Sasaki Kojiro) :skull:



YLC: 4 (El Diablo, White_Eyes:D, Peasant Phill, Ichigo)
TinCow: 3 (Chimpyang, Tristan de Castelreng, Husar)
Stephen Assen: 2 (woad&fangs, Louis VI the Fat)
GeneralHankerchief : 1 (Yoyoma1910)
ajaxfetish: 1 (FactionHeir)
taka: 1 (Captain Blackadder)
Haudegen: 1 (Wishazu)
Beskar: 1 (Crazed Rabbit)
LittleGrizzly: 1 (Rhyfelwyr)


abstain: 4 (Caius, taka, shlin28, Stephen Asen)
Not voting: 9 (Quintus.JC, Gobbledygook, Banquo's Ghost, Psychonaut, TosaInu, Jolt, Xehh II, AVSM, Beaver)


~~~


Challenges:


1. GeneralHankerchief vs. Rhyfelwyr

2. Stephen Assen vs. ajaxfetish

3. El Diablo vs. YLC
4. YLC vs. TinCow





~~~

Alive (47):

TinCow
Quintus.JC
GeneralHankerchief
FactionHeir
Caius
Glenn
Beefy187
Ichigo
Warluster
White_Eyes:D
Sasaki Kojiro
Stephen Assen
Peasant Phill
Kukrikhan
Captain Blackadder
A Very Super Market
Louis VI the Fat
Gobbledygook
Psychonaut
LittleGrizzly
taka
Jolt
YLC
Reenk Roink
Rhyfelwyr
Beaver
AggonyDuck
El Diablo
Beskar
atheotes
Ibn-Khaldun
CountArach
Husar
Death is yonder
Tristan de Castelreng
Chimpyang
Yoyoma1910
TosaInu
Seamus Fermanagh
Banquo's Ghost
Crazed Rabbit
Haudegen
woad&fangs
ajaxfetish
glyphz
Dutch_guy
Yaropolk


Killed (11):
Khazaar
spL1tp3r50nal1ty
Lord Winter
The Spartan
Iskander III
Shinseikhaan
Olavi
Thermal Mercury
Chaotix27
pevergreen
Gregoshi


Fallen in battle (2):
Northnovas
Ignoramus


Lynched (3):
Askthepizzaguy
Sigurd
shlin28


WoG/Suicide (1):
Xehh II


~~~


It's now night. PM's please. Night will be an extended one and will end on Sunday 26th of April, 9.30 pm (that's within +/- 35h30 after this post). After this night, we'll be back on our regular 24 hour schedule.





:bow:

[Beskar]

Woot, a WOG. :beam:

Also, this is a picture of Ichimaru from Google.
https://img24.imageshack.us/img24/2055/ichimarugin06.jpg

He was better off gone.

[shlin28]

I got lynched because I told the truth? Yay!

[CountArach]

I can confirm Ajaxfetish's story about having to send me 2 PMs. I had forgotten about them under the complete flood of other PMs I have been receiving from people.

[Gregoshi]

You can explain to yourself that the reason im monitoring you is that because your status among mafia players. The real reason is that i find your actions strange to your playing style, not your normal style like you suggest yourself.
:wall:

For vets, anything another vet does is suspect. TinCow (among several) is found suspicious because his actions follow a pattern of other games - a tiger cannot change its stripes apparently. Now Sasaki is found suspicious because his actions do not follow his regular playing style - or can a tiger change its stripes? You are too talkative. You are too quite. You are too helpful. You are too scummy. It seems to me provoking noobies may be worthwhile but doing so to a vet is pointless.

The only accusations I've found that had merit (right or wrong) were the cases against Stephen, Ajaxfetish and schlin and they were based on real detective work.

Of course, as I sit here composing this, my character is decomposing, so what do I know of mafia? :shrug:

[KukriKhan]

LOL. I guess I've played about 6-7 mafia games, so though experienced, I'm way less a veteran than many. Sasaki Kojiro has played in all the games I've been in. I've seen him be aggressive, quiet, able to lie through his teeth, sneaky, analytical, and a lurker. In short, he masters the game mechanics, then plays the players, like a good poker-player. It's hard to find a good "tell" on him.

I've yet to successfully peg his role before the endgame. So, I have a hard time supporting the proposition that he's playing differently than usual - cuz he always does.

[White_eyes:D]

:shrug: sometimes even in death you can help.....:bow:

Rule 3: No whining about losing, because if you were mafia you wouldnt be complaining. Rule 7:Dont trust anyone. Rule 8: When in doubt, fake some PMs. Rule 9: Always trust the person you most suspect. Rule 11: Claim real pms are fake, and fake pms are real. Then distract the town with a new lynch target. Rule 12: Convince people that you are innocent, even if you are. Most is coufusing dribble....:dizzy2: but it does make some sense:laugh4:


Rule 13. Make sure said fake PMs are not made in a 5 minute time frame.
What Our Lord is currently dealing with....:stwshame:

[Prince Cobra]

I can confirm Ajaxfetish's story about having to send me 2 PMs. I had forgotten about them under the complete flood of other PMs I have been receiving from people.

Takeda-sama, could you look at the time and date of these messages? :bow:

[Kagemusha]

:wall:

For vets, anything another vet does is suspect. TinCow (among several) is found suspicious because his actions follow a pattern of other games - a tiger cannot change its stripes apparently. Now Sasaki is found suspicious because his actions do not follow his regular playing style - or can a tiger change its stripes? You are too talkative. You are too quite. You are too helpful. You are too scummy. It seems to me provoking noobies may be worthwhile but doing so to a vet is pointless.

The only accusations I've found that had merit (right or wrong) were the cases against Stephen, Ajaxfetish and schlin and they were based on real detective work.

Of course, as I sit here composing this, my character is decomposing, so what do I know of mafia? :shrug:


LOL. I guess I've played about 6-7 mafia games, so though experienced, I'm way less a veteran than many. Sasaki Kojiro has played in all the games I've been in. I've seen him be aggressive, quiet, able to lie through his teeth, sneaky, analytical, and a lurker. In short, he masters the game mechanics, then plays the players, like a good poker-player. It's hard to find a good "tell" on him.

I've yet to successfully peg his role before the endgame. So, I have a hard time supporting the proposition that he's playing differently than usual - cuz he always does.

Well i have also played with Sasaki ever since the first mafia hosted by GH. Though i havent played in half of a year, so i might be bit rusty. My personal style of playing is very much based on intuition about other players. Now do i think that we are likely to gather solid evidence against Sasaki, based on clear mistakes from him if he is mafia? My answer is no. I respect his capabilities enough to know that he can fool the town. Nevertheless, my intuition says that Sasakis behaviour is somehow off. Am i right with my hunch? That remains to be seen. If at this point i should name the mafia players based solely on intuition and scarce evidence wich supports (largely only inside my own head), that hunch.

I would bet that Sasaki, Tincow and Beskar are the ninjas and Stephen Asen and Duckie are the traitors. It will be fun to see if i did get any of them right when the game ends.~:)

[Prince Cobra]

I would bet that Sasaki, Tincow and Beskar are the ninjas and Stephen Asen and Duckie are the traitors. It will be fun to see if i did get any of them right when the game ends.~:)

Interesting assumption. I am indeed interested to hear your logic, Kagemusha-san.

[Beskar]

I would bet that Sasaki, Tincow and Beskar are the ninjas and Stephen Asen and Duckie are the traitors. It will be fun to see if i did get any of them right when the game ends.~:)

Three of the names are FoS, and two I have voted on previously.

I am not lucky enough to be a Mafia-role. :no: I could kill people then, or have some really cool pro-town role where I can kill my suspects... muahahaha :whip:

[Rhyfelwyr]

Should I pm my battle rating to CA since I'm in a duel?

[Prince Cobra]

Three of the names are FoS, and two I have voted on previously.

I am not lucky enough to be a Mafia-role. :no: I could kill people then, or have some really cool pro-town role where I can kill my suspects... muahahaha :whip:


What is FoS? :inquisitive:

[Wishazu]

FoS = Finger of Suspicion mate.

[Beskar]

I was tempted to say "Fool or Stupid" as a joke, but people might thought I was being serious.

[Prince Cobra]

I was tempted to say "Fool or Stupid" as a joke, but people might thought I was being serious.

I am indeed flattered by your high opinion of me. :bow:

And by the way, could you decide in which category I am? Traitor, Ninja or a fool? With a good arguments, please.

[AggonyDuck]

Well i have also played with Sasaki ever since the first mafia hosted by GH. Though i havent played in half of a year, so i might be bit rusty. My personal style of playing is very much based on intuition about other players. Now do i think that we are likely to gather solid evidence against Sasaki, based on clear mistakes from him if he is mafia? My answer is no. I respect his capabilities enough to know that he can fool the town. Nevertheless, my intuition says that Sasakis behaviour is somehow off. Am i right with my hunch? That remains to be seen. If at this point i should name the mafia players based solely on intuition and scarce evidence wich supports (largely only inside my own head), that hunch.

I would bet that Sasaki, Tincow and Beskar are the ninjas and Stephen Asen and Duckie are the traitors. It will be fun to see if i did get any of them right when the game ends.~:)

Well your intuition is wrong atleast in my case, as I have already claimed my innocence and will never sully my integrity for a mafia victory. It is worth far more than a successful deception.

[Beskar]

I am indeed flattered by your high opinion of me. :bow:

I never said you was a Fool or Stupid. :no:

I don't actually insult people for real unless it has the word "Seriously" or some justification to why I think that.

On the side-note, you killed Olavi. :viking:

[Prince Cobra]

I never said you was a Fool or Stupid. :no:

I don't actually insult people for real unless it has the word "Seriously" or some justification to why I think that.

On the side-note, you killed Olavi. :viking:

I am indeed flattered by your high opinion about me. Hmm...

[Kagemusha]

Interesting assumption. I am indeed interested to hear your logic, Kagemusha-san.

Its just intuition and some suspicions. I will inform you publically immediately if something concrete surfaces.~;)

[Caius]

I never said you was a Fool or Stupid. :no:

I don't actually insult people for real unless it has the word "Seriously" or some justification to why I think that.

On the side-note, you killed Olavi. :viking:
How do you know? You were there???!!!

[Sasaki Kojiro]

fos:caius

too much punctuation = fake

[CountArach]

Takeda-sama, could you look at the time and date of these messages? :bow:
I've got them saved on my laptop, so I'll check later.

Should I pm my battle rating to CA since I'm in a duel?
Yes, definitely.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

fos:caius

too much punctuation = fake

Do you consider this a tell even when the writer is not a primary English speaker?

[Gregoshi]

Do you consider this a tell even when the writer is not a primary English speaker?
I get the feeling he was yanking my chain Seamus. :laugh4:

[GeneralHankerchief]

Sorry guys, been out all day and now I don't have enough energy to do anything aside from dropping. I'll work on this tomorrow.

[naut]

That was quite the read. Now back to assignments. :thumbsup:

[Beskar]

Night time = Snooze-ville, you have to be honest.

[KukriKhan]

So... hunches.

Hunch #1: by now (if not from the beginning) the mafia-types know who each other are.

Hunch #2: some of the mafia-types can investigate (hence no 6-kill nights yet; 1 or 2 of them investigate, intead of killing).

Hunch #3: with 60+ players to start, mafia investigators must be able to query 2,3 or 4 names per night). I'm guessing '3', so they have a full hit list, as a group.

Hunch #4: I think townies are almost out of investigators/detectives (geisha's?).

Hunch #5: CA's non-responder list is probably a good start-point for suspected mafia.

All these hunches are probably glaringly obvious to the more experienced players, but I ain't that bright, so I thought I'd throw them out there to help me (and others) figure out our next move(s).

Do any of those 5 hunches seem wildly wrong to anyone?

If not, I think our lynch-list should start working off of CA's list of players who didn't send in battle-ratings. Those names are either guilty, or lurking (non-helpful).

[TinCow]

Do any of those 5 hunches seem wildly wrong to anyone?

No, but I do think there's an even chance that #2 (mafia investigators) can simply be explained as mafioso intentionally not killing or failing to get their kills in on time. In a game this large, probability dictates that some mafioso will be new players or other such people who are more prone to being absent from the forums for a long time or missing orders for other reasons. In addition, it's a common tactic to intentionally not kill to max potential. Mafia investigators is certainly a possibility, but I think these other two options need to be considered along side it.

[KukriKhan]

No, but I do think there's an even chance that #2 (mafia investigators) can simply be explained as mafioso intentionally not killing or failing to get their kills in on time. In a game this large, probability dictates that some mafioso will be new players or other such people who are more prone to being absent from the forums for a long time or missing orders for other reasons. In addition, it's a common tactic to intentionally not kill to max potential. Mafia investigators is certainly a possibility, but I think these other two options need to be considered along side it.

Yeah, I can see all that as explaining why we haven't had max killings yet. Are my numbers off, or do you agree that we face 6 killers (or more): 4 ninja, 2 traitors, ?? serial killer(s)?

Also: what if our detective- or doctor-types didn't get a battle-rating? That might explain some of the CA non-responders. Do you think everybody got some kind of battle-rating, to facilitate the day duels? It makes sense to me that all players would get one, because who knows who would challenge whom?

[Prince Cobra]

Yeah, I can see all that as explaining why we haven't had max killings yet. Are my numbers off, or do you agree that we face 6 killers (or more): 4 ninja, 2 traitors, ?? serial killer(s)?

Also: what if our detective- or doctor-types didn't get a battle-rating? That might explain some of the CA non-responders. Do you think everybody got some kind of battle-rating, to facilitate the day duels? It makes sense to me that all players would get one, because who knows who would challenge whom?


I think there is a limit of 3 kills (look the rules) for the Ninjas. Andres, is this so?

[Caius]

I think there is a limit of 3 kills (look the rules) for the Ninjas. Andres, is this so?
The rules say that those three ninjas are able to perform 3 kills. It doesn't state if one dies then they have one less kill.

[Andres]

~~~ Swords in the Moon ~~~



Night 4 - Conclusion.


https://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t2/AndresTheCunning/Swords%20in%20the%20Moon/throwingknives.jpg


Hour of the Rat

Kawazoe Koiki (Little_Grizzly) went to his room. He was tired. No, not tired, exhausted. Not only was there the ever present paranoia and the fear of his beloved Lord getting killed by cowardly assassins, there were also samurai who seemed to follow his lead.

Allthough he would be very flattered under different circumstances, it all made the current experience even more exhausting. Because of these followers, he felt like his responsability was doubled, or even tripled.

Kawazoe smiled. If this would end well after all, he surely would be promoted; maybe one day he would become a general in the army of the Takeda clan.

With this encouraging thoughts, Kawazoe went to sleep.

Alas, his dreams of generalship in the army of the great Takeda would never come true. They were abruptly ended by a nightly dagger slicing his throat.


~~~


https://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t2/AndresTheCunning/Swords%20in%20the%20Moon/ninja.jpg


Hour of the Rat

Konno Takumi (Reenk Roink) was pretty sure they made the right decision today. After all, he had followed the lead of the samurai he admired most, Kawazoe Koiki. Konno was a humble man, but he was no fool. He knew a great and mighty man when he saw one and his idol Kawazoe certainly had a great future ahead of him.

Konno knew that all would end well if he just kept following the lead of his great example. And maybe, just maybe, one day, his idol would reward his loyalty and would accept him as his right hand.

As he got carried away by his imagination to a life of glorious victories won by his favourite samurai, by then a mighty general, Konno smiled.

Unfortunately, his dreams came to an abrupt end when two strong, dark gloved hands squeezed his throat. A few minutes later, Konno was dead, his wide opened eyes staring at the ceiling.



~~~




https://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t2/AndresTheCunning/Swords%20in%20the%20Moon/kanabo.jpg




Hour of the Rat

Fujimoto Heikichi (Louis VI the Fat)'s body was covered with sweat. Yes, it was told that for a samurai there was no greater honor than to die in the service of his master, but Fujimoto disagreed. What good was a dead samurai? How on earth could a dead samurai serve his master? What utter nonsense! What good was a huge pile of dead corpses for Lord Takeda? How would Lord Takeda ever unite the country with only dead men on his side?

Constantly looking to the left and right and behind him, he almost ran to his room. He opened and closed his door at least 7 times to see if anybody had followed him.

Fujimoto covered the floor with empty bottles, cups, plates and whatever would make a lot of noise if someone would accidentally stumble upon it.

Still wearing his full armor and his both swords, he went to sleep.

Hours passed and Fujimoto finally started to calm down. When has about to fall asleep, he heard a noise. He quickly jumped up and looked around him.

With a devastating blow, his chest got smashed with a kanabo. Fujimoto tried to scream, but his longs held no air. A second blow with the kanabo broke his upper left arm. A third blow hit his chest again. Almost unconscious, he felt another blow, breaking his right under arm. Finally, a fifth blow smashed his head, spreading blood, pieces of bone and brains all over the room.


The killer quickly left the room unnoticed.


~~~


https://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t2/AndresTheCunning/Swords%20in%20the%20Moon/katana.jpg

Hour of the Ox.

A man tried to sneak his way into the room of Hamano Michiyo (Sasaki Kojiro). Holding a razor sharp wakizashi in his hand, he walked down the corridor leading to the room of Hamano.

Cautiously looking to the left and right, he didn’t notice the masked samurai who was hiding near the door to Hamano’s room.

As the killer was about to enter the room of Hamano, the masked samurai jumped up and casted a tremendous warcry.

The killer quickly jumped aside and started to run. After a short chase, the masked samurai lost track of the attacker.


~~~
Day 4 : Bloodier and bloodier.


https://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t2/AndresTheCunning/Swords%20in%20the%20Moon/Takeda2.jpg


Hour of the Rabbit


Lord Shingen was enjoying his breakfeast. The more attentive observant would notice however that the mighty leader looked tired. Maybe the events of the last couple of days and nights were taking its' toll?


The rumours on the courtyard didn't bode well...


When the Tiger came outside, he saw something that was sadly becoming a usual scene: dead bodies and prepared woodpiles.


Lord Takeda mounted the platform and looked at the scroll next to him.

After a brief moment, he nodded towards Fujiwara Tadayoshi (El Diablo) and Sanada Yukimura (YLC).



https://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t2/AndresTheCunning/Swords%20in%20the%20Moon/duel.jpg

Both men bowed deeply for their lord. One of the officers nodded at both fighters. No armor, no hidden weapons, just katana and wakizashi.

Both warriors bowed to the officer and to each other.

Fujiwara unsheeted his katana and walked towards his opponent. Both men walked in circles, as if they were performing a dance, a deadly dance.

Suddenly Fujiwara’s katana struck forward with magnificent speed. Sanada’s katana broke into little pieces when he blocked the devestating blow.

With a victorious smile on his face, Fujiwara lifted his katana and let it come down for another blow. Sanada, who didn’t have the chance to unsheeth his wakizashi jumped aside and nearly avoided the sword. His opponent however was temporarily unbalanced and Sanada managed to deal out a hard kick on his knee.

A sickening sound could be heard and Fujiwara fell. With his wakizashi in his right hand, Sanada jumped above his opponent. Fujiwara managed to plant his fist in Sanada’s stomach, making Sanada throw up his breakfeast. While he was coming to his senses, Fujiwara’s katana came down. In a reflex, Sanada rolled to the left, barely avoiding the blade and in one fluent movement he pierced through Fujiwara’s belly with his wakizashi.

While Fujiwara tried to stop the bleeding of the deadly wound, Sanada picked up the katana of his opponent and with one clean blow, he seperated Fujiwara’s head from his body.

Sanada nodded respectfully towards the body of his opponent and made a deep bow for Lord Shingen, who nodded back.


The samurai and their Lord started the proceedings. Again...



~~~

Alive (43):

TinCow
Quintus.JC
GeneralHankerchief
FactionHeir
Caius
Glenn
Beefy187
Ichigo
Warluster
White_Eyes:D
Sasaki Kojiro
Stephen Assen
Peasant Phill
Kukrikhan
Captain Blackadder
A Very Super Market
Gobbledygook
Psychonaut
taka
Jolt
YLC
Rhyfelwyr
Beaver
AggonyDuck
Beskar
atheotes
Kagemusha
CountArach
Husar
Death is yonder
Tristan de Castelreng
Chimpyang
Yoyoma1910
TosaInu
Seamus Fermanagh
Banquo's Ghost
Crazed Rabbit
Haudegen
woad&fangs
ajaxfetish
glyphz
Dutch_guy
Yaropolk


Killed (14):
Khazaar
spL1tp3r50nal1ty
Lord Winter
The Spartan
Iskander III
Shinseikhaan
Olavi
Thermal Mercury
Chaotix27
pevergreen
Gregoshi
Reenk Roink
LittleGrizzly
Louis VI the Fat


Fallen in battle (3):
Northnovas
Ignoramus
El Diablo


Lynched (3):
Askthepizzaguy
Sigurd
shlin28


WoG/Suicide (1):
Xehh II


~~~


It's now day. You can start voting. Day will last for +/- 24 hours; that is until 9.30 pm (GMT+1).






:bow:

[Seamus Fermanagh]

For 3N + 1GF, I would guess 3 kills and 1 investigation.

The first geisha died too quickly to have been researched first. They got lucky. Gregoshi was trying to play a nice balance between over-active and "I'm new," which I suspect delayed him getting whacked at first but did NOT stop them from investigating. Once known.....:skull:

That is all supposition of course, but I think it fits the facts and the kill descriptions thus far.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

The killer quickly jumped aside and started to run.

Aw, poor baby got scared!

:bounce:

[TosaInu]

Huh? Hmm.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Huh? Hmm.

Vote:TosaInu

[Beskar]

Some one used a protector on Sasaki?

Also, the Ninja got serious.

[Reenk Roink]

:stwmean: I am unsure of how to feel towards the killers. On the one hand they have murdered Master. On the other hand they followed it up and murdered me so that I may immediately meet Master in the afterlife.

I will seek the opinion of Master on this matter and send word down to you. :stwshame:

[GeneralHankerchief]

Vote: Beefy
Challenge: TosaInu

Somebody had to do it.

[TosaInu]

So, you are not a ninja, but either a samurai or a traitor (fake attack).

[Beskar]

:stwmean: I am unsure of how to feel towards the killers. On the one hand they have murdered Master. On the other hand they followed it up and murdered me so that I may immediately meet Master in the afterlife.

I will seek the opinion of Master on this matter and send word down to you. :stwshame:

It was intentional, as if they only got one of you, the other would get them.

Lous the Fat VI voted for Stephen Assen before his death. However, it was during the Hour of the Rat, not the Ox.

Who protected Sasaki and why? Whoever did, did they know Sasaki is a innocent townie, or they know Sasaki is a mafia-role and so used powers of protection on him to stop a traitor killing him. Who has protection capabilities? The Ninja-master, Shinobi, something else.

The Sasaki question needs to be answered asap. While it was good for him, we don't know if it is good for us.

[Prince Cobra]

It was intentional, as if they only got one of you, the other would get them.

Lous the Fat VI voted for Stephen Assen before his death. However, it was during the Hour of the Rat, not the Ox.

Who protected Sasaki and why? Whoever did, did they know Sasaki is a innocent townie, or they know Sasaki is a mafia-role and so used powers of protection on him to stop a traitor killing him. Who has protection capabilities? The Ninja-master, Shinobi, something else.

The Sasaki question needs to be answered asap. While it was good for him, we don't know if it is good for us.

I think Sasaki was killed attempted to be killed by traitors. Shinobi is the other name of ninja. Pro-town or not, they act in the same way.

[TosaInu]

What you mean Beskar? A mafia traitor?

[Gregoshi]

The other night the pever clan was off-ed. Last night the LG clan was hit. The ninjas don't like organization apparently - IC or OOC.

[TosaInu]

Oh, there was a third.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Did a ninja try and kill me or a traitor? I thought the hour of the ox was the traitors, but the writeup has him sneaking in with a knife.

[Gregoshi]

It seemed to me that Louis was killed by the psycho. Is the Rat/Ox theory maybe incorrect?

[FactionHeir]

N3:
kill 1 and 2 = ninja
kill 3 = SK
kill 4 (attempt) = Traitor (likely - not certain as not successful, but would fit the 2-1-1 scenario we had so far)

And Tosa is suddenly being very talkative but enigmatic (or rather Tosa-like on-liners?).

vote: TosaInu

I'm a bit interested in why Beskar think that the ninja master and shinobi can protect. Do you know something we don't? My thinking was Geisha = Roleblocker/protector, Shinobi = Detective/Vigilante. Of course my guess is as good as any other.

[Csargo]

Sasaki was protected by a masked samurai interesting.

[Beskar]

I'm a bit interested in why Beskar think that the ninja master and shinobi can protect. Do you know something we don't? My thinking was Geisha = Roleblocker/protector, Shinobi = Detective/Vigilante. Of course my guess is as good as any other.

It is generally the case that a Master/Doctor, can be role blockers. it was pure speculation. That is why I am asking who blocked the attempt on Sasaki's life. Was it the mafia-role or a pro-town role and do that role know they are good or bad?

If it was the mafia-role who protected him, it is bad for us, if it was a pro-town who protected him and he is a confirmed townie, it is good for us to know so we don't lynch Sasaki off by mistake.

[AggonyDuck]

Anyone else worried about the fact that both duelists seemed to be highly skilled in sword fighting? Especially the Katana shattering first blow by Fujiwara seems to hint that he was a superb swordsman and I'm not sure if his death was a good thing for the yashiki.

Anyway what do we have to go on here?

[Prince Cobra]

It is generally the case that a Master/Doctor, can be role blockers. it was pure speculation. That is why I am asking who blocked the attempt on Sasaki's life. Was it the mafia-role or a pro-town role and do that role know they are good or bad?

If it was the mafia-role who protected him, it is bad for us, if it was a pro-town who protected him and he is a confirmed townie, it is good for us to know so we don't lynch Sasaki off by mistake.

The master ninja guarding his students? This is unlogical. I would say that a student shall guard his master, not the opposite.

+ The Ninja have the same styles. I think that the master ninja has not started killing yet.

But this is only a speculation.

Duckie, I have the feeling that none of the duelling samurai this night was not enemy of Takeda Shingen.

[Gregoshi]

N3:
kill 1 and 2 = ninja
kill 3 = SK
kill 4 (attempt) = Traitor (likely - not certain as not successful, but would fit the 2-1-1 scenario we had so far)

FactionHeir, are you suggesting that the serial killer is a ninja and not a traitor? The SK is anything but stealthy. Loud and clumsy it seems to me. My guess is that the failure against Sasaki was ninja.

[Wishazu]

Well it appears to me that Tosa has incriminated himself with his recent comment, but then again it seems odd for someone to make such a stupid mistake by posting a silly comment like that. I`m not voting yet, I want to see what you other more experienced Mafia players come up with...

[Beskar]

The master ninja guarding his students? This is unlogical. I would say that a student shall guard his master, not the opposite.
My apologises, I meant this. yes, this is what I meant.

Sasaki is the Ninja master?

[Wishazu]

My apologises, I meant this. yes, this is what I meant.

Sasaki is the Ninja master?

So that would mean it was a traitor trying to get Sasaki?

[FactionHeir]

I think you are forgetting the secret role Greg, which IMO is a SK with a knack for blood and guts :wink:

Why do you think that the failed attempt on Sasaki was a ninja hit when ninjas so far consistently had at most 2 kills and there always has been a traitor kill according to my version of kill classifications?

As for who Sasaki is: We know he's not part of the traitor group as the Traitor tried to off him and he was protected (rules out Traitor vs Traitor framing). Leaves Sasaki as Townie, SK or Ninja - not Shinobi as that's the last pro town role anyway.

Regarding the duel, I'm pretty sure both were veterans.

[Prince Cobra]

Sasaki is the Ninja master?



In fact, the truth is known only by Sasaki and the man who guarded him.

So now... Let's leave Sasaki alone for a while and to jump on a more solid ground.

Edited: yes, Wishazu, I think a traitor tried to kill Sasaki.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

My gut tells me that TosaInu's comment was him surprised his kill didn't go through. It is his first game after all.

[Gregoshi]

I think you are forgetting the secret role Greg, which IMO is a SK with a knack for blood and guts :wink:

Why do you think that the failed attempt on Sasaki was a ninja hit when ninjas so far consistently had at most 2 kills and there always has been a traitor kill according to my version of kill classifications?
The SK hardly seems like a "secret" role to me.

Here's my take on the kills:

Night 1: 2 ninja kills, 1 traitor (there is speculation on a missed ninja/traitor order for first day)
Night 2: 3 ninja kills, 1 SK (traitor)
Night 3: 3 ninja kills, 1 SK (traitor)
Night 4: 2 ninja kills, 1 SK (traitor), 1 ninja/traitor? (foiled)

Note that the rules say that the traitor get "1 or 2" kills each night so there is a variable.

I don't see the "at most 2 kills" by the ninjas. Nights 2 & 3 seem to have the qualities of 3 ninja kills.

[Dutch_guy]

My gut tells me that TosaInu's comment was him surprised his kill didn't go through. It is his first game after all.

I doubt he'd make a mistake like that, it's more probable to be a standard Tosa one-liner.

:balloon2:

[Beskar]

Hour of the Rat is Ninja, Hour of the Ox is Traitor. So I believe, anyway.

[Prince Cobra]

I doubt he'd make a mistake like that, it's more probable to be a standard Tosa one-liner.

:balloon2:

I don't think another bandwagon will be a good idea. Solid ground (relatively speaking, please)

Vote: Beefy (We have not heard this polite and honourable person for a long time )

Challenge: Beskar (Personal reasons + I am still surprised he has not voted against me yet + his mania to manage the FoS lists + gut feeling)

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I doubt he'd make a mistake like that, it's more probable to be a standard Tosa one-liner.

:balloon2:

I don't believe it's a good strategy to assume people don't make mistakes.

[Reenk Roink]

I think the Mafia killed Master and I because they thought we might have some kind of special role or something. Or perhaps it was just because we weren't drawing suspicion and would vote together.

The only problem is, the only one really vocal about it was Louis and he was whacked too. Now given that there are different factions, it doesn't exonerate the French warrior.

There were a few others who took note of the master/slave relationship but in a much less open way. Then there is the possibility that someone who said nothing about it is responsible.

Basically I got nothing... :shrug:

[edit] I don't think it is Beefy at all. He is really busy with school and stuff and his Noble Sons game is time consuming too.

[Beskar]

Challenge: Beskar (Personal reasons + I am still surprised he has not voted against me yet + his mania to manage the FoS lists + gut feeling)

Because your attack on Sasaki failed?

[Prince Cobra]

Because your attack on Sasaki failed?

Strange... it was not me who developed the strange theory about Ninjas. As I said, he might be or he might not be. I proposed to leave him alone for few days.

[Beskar]

No, you was the traitor that attempted to attack him.

[Prince Cobra]

No, you was the traitor that attempted to attack him.

Another interesting assumption. But I am afraid you are wrong.

[FactionHeir]

And you are voting Beefy...why? He already has a vote on him, are you trying to start a bandwagon just like that? :inquisitive:

[Rhyfelwyr]

Vote: LittleGrizzly

Don't think I have forgotten about you and your attempt to stick me on the pever bandwagon!

[Prince Cobra]

And you are voting Beefy...why? He already has a vote on him, are you trying to start a bandwagon just like that? :inquisitive:


Hmm, I think I already explained in the brackets. I have some old suspicions.
---------
Rhy', LG is dead.

[Gregoshi]

Vote: LittleGrizzly

Don't think I have forgotten about you and your attempt to stick me on the pever bandwagon!
Ummm, LG is dead.

[White_eyes:D]

Vote:TosaInu
Challenge:TosaInu
He has not defended himself..."hey, I am a townie I just was finding it weird how the kill got blocked, Ect, ect":book: WIFOM though:shrug:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Vote: LittleGrizzly

Don't think I have forgotten about you and your attempt to stick me on the pever bandwagon!

Hos:Rhyfelwyr

"I don't know who got killed, a mafioso would know, therefore I can't be mafia!"

Suuuure

[GeneralHankerchief]

Unvote: Beefy
Vote: Sasaki

Now, I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that Sasaki's "translations" for reasoning is the closest thing to a mafia tell he has.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

You may indeed be wrong.

Reasoning: you are

[Beskar]

I say Sasaki is the Ninja master and Stephen Asen is the traitor. Gut-feelings.

[FactionHeir]

So who is Asen's scum buddy and who are Sasaki's pupils?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I say Sasaki is the Ninja master and Stephen Asen is the traitor. Gut-feelings.



Kiyonaga looked at the silent man sitting in front of him.

"Kato Danzo-san, the Uesugi clan has an important task for you. As you are well aware, the constant battles between my Lord and Lord Takeda Shingen are exhausting our resources. The Tiger of Kai has been an obstacle on my masters' path to glory for many years now and it has to be removed."

The mysterious man nodded silently.

Kiyonaga continued: "Allthough an excellent general on the field of honor, the Tiger is pretty predictable when it comes to his habits during the Winter season. He will probably spend his time in his yashiki (mansion) in Kofu, only surrounded by his best men. Bring me his head and you will be rewarded generously."

Kato Danzo bowed. "So it will be, Kiyonaga-sama."

The ninja master left the tent without making a sound.


:wings:

[Beefy187]

I think the Mafia killed Master and I because they thought we might have some kind of special role or something. Or perhaps it was just because we weren't drawing suspicion and would vote together.

The only problem is, the only one really vocal about it was Louis and he was whacked too. Now given that there are different factions, it doesn't exonerate the French warrior.

There were a few others who took note of the master/slave relationship but in a much less open way. Then there is the possibility that someone who said nothing about it is responsible.

Basically I got nothing... :shrug:

[edit] I don't think it is Beefy at all. He is really busy with school and stuff and his Noble Sons game is time consuming too.

I'm busy only on Saturdays.
The last time I checked there wasn't much to go on with, as it was before the night kills so I decided not to say anything.

I will

Challenge: GH

and wait for Lord Shingen for his word before I go off to vote.

[TinCow]

Too intoxicated to bother with any actual analysis this evening, but attempts on both Reenk (successful) and Sasaki (unsuccessful) resonate with me. Those are major players to go after, not targets to be selected lightly. So, two questions appear to me, which I will think about tomorrow when I am sober:

(1) Why were Reenk and Sasaki targeted?
(2) Why was Sasaki protected?

[Gregoshi]

Observation: except for night 1, several of the killings involved feats of strength (crushed larnyx, broken bones). One kill each on nights 2 & 3 and possibly two on night 4. El Diablo showed tremendous strength in the duel. Might we have seen the end of a killer? Something to watch in the coming nights.

I don't think I see any correlation between the images preceeding the killings and who did them. I also don't see a correlation between the hour and who did them. Here's a listing of the kills shown as "hour - picture - type of kill"

Night 1
Rat - ninja pic - decapitation, limbs hacked (SK)
Rat - ninja pic - shurikan to back of neck
Ox - sword pic - stab to chest/slit throat

Night 2
Rat - ninja pic - punch to back of neck - broken
Rat - daggers pic (ninja?) - thrown knife to throat
Rat - sword pic - "warrior" decapitated victim with sword
Ox - ninja pic - larnyx broken, knife to eye (strength, gruesome but too "clean" for SK?)

Night 3
Rat - ninja pic - knife to throat & stab to heart, carved words on body
Rat - ninja pic - "ninja", knife to throat, 2nd unspecified stab, carved words on body
Rat - ninja pic - beaten, a blow broke arm, broken larnyx, cut off legs (SK)
Ox - sword pic - slit throat :shame:

Night 4
Rat - daggers pic (ninja?) - slit throat
Rat - ninja pic - "strong", strangled
Rat - kanabo? pic - violent beating, bashed brain, messy (SK)
Ox - sword pic - sword drawn, moved quick, but attack foiled

From what I could see, there is no pattern regarding style other than the SK (brutal and messy) - no signature strangling, throat slit, or thrown weapon preferences.

I hope this helps those with greater deductive powers than mine.

[Beskar]

:wings:

Why was you saved, why damn you!!!111eleven

[AggonyDuck]

Andres, what exactly is the role of Shingen? Will we lose if he is assassinated, even if there are other samurai left? Can Shingen be targeted before everyone else is dead, provided that all three swordmasters are assumed dead? What happens if the ninja/traitors target Shingen before all the swordmasters are dead?

[naut]

Hey there. Vote: Caius.

[PershsNhpios]

Challenge: Rhyfelwyr

I challenge the one which I would truly vote for, but who will obtain no great number of nominations.

And I put my vote on: GeneralHankerchief.

Now really, I must go. I know, that seems suspicious, but look at my activity record of late.
Why is it so low?
Because I have much work about the place here, and I don't have time to sit and wait for the guild to load page after page of mafia games when each takes 3-5 minutes to present itself!
Ach! Och! The injustice!
That's all folks.

[LittleGrizzly]

Rhyf im not sure what you mean attempted to stick you on the pever bandwagon... im pretty sure you successfully joined it yourself ~;)

Feel free to suspect me but i am now dead and above suspicion, i shall serve my master in the afterlife as i have in this. The corwardly ninja who targetted me was too afraid that my loyal samurai would get his revenge during the day so took him out also... i think we have discovered one thing about the ninja tonight... they are cowards!

My loyal samurai you shall serve master in the afterlife just as well helping hunt down the ninjas and the traitors, you shall not let masters death go unpunished...

Someone is targetting the big players it seems... potentially a newbie going for name recognition or an experienced player attempting to remove the knowledgable players from the pool...

I think a good way to go would be maybe working from a list of unhelpful samurai who refuse to cooperate with our lord Takeda... such samurai should kill themselves in shame for not serving out lord better as it is... if they are too dishonourable to end ther own lives we should assist them to this end....

[Gregoshi]

i think we have discovered one thing about the ninja tonight... they are cowards!
They also have no clue how to tread a lady.

[Prince Cobra]

I say Sasaki is the Ninja master and Stephen Asen is the traitor. Gut-feelings.

Why do you want to kill me before the duel? :inquisitive:

[Haudegen]

In addition to my earlier post (see posting no. 1012 in this thread and see below as well), where I was speculating about the possible meaning of Haikus, that were posted by some, I´d like to point out:

As far as I can see, Yoyoma1910 was the first player to post Haikus in this thread. But there i more: Yoyoma1910 has contributed nothing but Haikus. Haikus that hardly contain anything meaningful as far as I can tell. My gut feeling teels me that he uses this behaviour as an excuse to cover up the fact that he was required to post at least one Haiku by his role-pm.


Oh, and Yoyoma1910 wanted Louis dead, he voted for him and later he challenged Louis.


vote: Yoyoma1910


From my ealier post:

Stephen Asen seems scummy too. In the last day phase, Beskar´s bandwagon on Stephen didn´t really convince me. And it still makes little sense unless we make an assumption: Perhaps Stephen is required by his role-pm to post this Haiku in the game thread. Perhaps this was necessary to make his night action count... Perhaps he received a PM by the game host that reminded him of this and he just made it in time...

But this is just speculation on my part. I´d like to point out that my role-pm gives me no reasons to back up this assumption. In fact my role-pm has no night action, I´m just a samurai.

And let´s remember that scummy shlin´s intervention broke the tie and saved Stephen. As an experienced player he knew that this would make him look bad, but for some reason he seemed to be willing to pay this price. Hmm...

[AggonyDuck]

As far as I can see, Yoyoma1910 was the first player to post Haikus in this thread. But there i more: Yoyoma1910 has contributed nothing but Haikus. Haikus that hardly contain anything meaningful as far as I can tell. My gut feeling teels me that he uses this behaviour as an excuse to cover up the fact that he was required to post at least one Haiku by his role-pm.


How do you know that he was required to post atleast one Haiku in his role-pm? :inquisitive:

[Beefy187]

In addition to my earlier post (see posting no. 1012 in this thread and see below as well), where I was speculating about the possible meaning of Haikus, that were posted by some, I´d like to point out:

As far as I can see, Yoyoma1910 was the first player to post Haikus in this thread. But there i more: Yoyoma1910 has contributed nothing but Haikus. Haikus that hardly contain anything meaningful as far as I can tell. My gut feeling teels me that he uses this behaviour as an excuse to cover up the fact that he was required to post at least one Haiku by his role-pm.


Oh, and Yoyoma1910 wanted Louis dead, he voted for him and later he challenged Louis.


vote: Yoyoma1910


From my ealier post:

Stephen Asen seems scummy too. In the last day phase, Beskar´s bandwagon on Stephen didn´t really convince me. And it still makes little sense unless we make an assumption: Perhaps Stephen is required by his role-pm to post this Haiku in the game thread. Perhaps this was necessary to make his night action count... Perhaps he received a PM by the game host that reminded him of this and he just made it in time...

But this is just speculation on my part. I´d like to point out that my role-pm gives me no reasons to back up this assumption. In fact my role-pm has no night action, I´m just a samurai.

And let´s remember that scummy shlin´s intervention broke the tie and saved Stephen. As an experienced player he knew that this would make him look bad, but for some reason he seemed to be willing to pay this price. Hmm...


There was loads more players who posted Haikus after Yoyoma. You don't suspect them at all?
If your going to highlight the fact that he has done no contributions, there is some players who posted nearly nothing. Posting haikus to avoid WoG sounds like a decent strategy for a mafia but...

I don't see how significant challenging Louis and voting for him etc is. Does Louis have a special role in the game?

[Andres]

Andres, what exactly is the role of Shingen? Will we lose if he is assassinated, even if there are other samurai left?

He is Lord Takeda. The game will continue if Shingen gets assassinated.



Can Shingen be targeted before everyone else is dead, provided that all three swordmasters are assumed dead? What happens if the ninja/traitors target Shingen before all the swordmasters are dead?

No comment :beam:

[Death is yonder]

I will be inactive soon. Need to quickly finish up Simpson Mafia and go study for finals in 2 weeks.

Haven't had time to catch up yet, just got back from classes.

Vote:Abstain until I can get through the massive wall of text...

By the way, why are you all voting Tosa and GH... Bandwagon much?
Quite possibly his "huh" statement was simply expressing confusion at a previously unknown ability, AKA Sasaki was saved. I would like that question answered too, why was Sasaki saved and by who?

[ULC]

Vote: TinCow
Challenge: TinCow

[FactionHeir]

Greg, you do realize that your analysis is identical to mine? :grin:

[Death is yonder]

Vote: TinCow
Challenge: TinCow

:inquisitive::inquisitive:

[Louis VI the Fat]

Ears deaf, sobs silent
Eyes blind, mourners go unseen
Tears loosed over death

~-~-~-~-~-~-~<<oOo>>~-~-~-~-~-~-~


Dagger, plunge my heart
Death, cloak my mind in darkness
Soul, fly to my love

~-~-~-~-~-~-~<<oOo>>~-~-~-~-~-~-~

Senryu, not Haiku
Lament my early demise
Samurai: fight, win

[Gregoshi]

Greg, you do realize that your analysis is identical to mine? :grin:
:bow:

I didn't see your night 3 analysis (your night 3 is actually night 4), but there are similarities. Also, I was trying to confirm/debunk the kill hour and picture theories suggested earlier as well as looking consistencies from night to night.

What I don't get and don't buy yet is your insistence that the SK is a special role and neither ninja or traitor, unless your experience with the game tells you this.

[Kagemusha]

It seems that the situation is bit more then Chaotic after last night. We have questions raised after what happened during night, specially who was targeting Sasaki and why he was protected. Next we have a very strange comment from Tosainu. Stephen Asen challenging Beskar and YLC voting and challenging Tincow, without a single word why he does that. Very confusing. I might have to think a bit before voting.

[Haudegen]

How do you know that he was required to post atleast one Haiku in his role-pm? :inquisitive:

I don´t. I´m just trying to propose a hypothesis.


There was loads more players who posted Haikus after Yoyoma. You don't suspect them at all?


No, I think many joined the Haiku-Band just for the fun of it.



Well, but it seems that noone really thinks that my ideas concerning the Haikus are any good, so I´ll stop thinking about that. My vote on yoyoma stands though, maybe that´ll make him contribute something better.

[Prince Cobra]

Observation: except for night 1, several of the killings involved feats of strength (crushed larnyx, broken bones). One kill each on nights 2 & 3 and possibly two on night 4. El Diablo showed tremendous strength in the duel. Might we have seen the end of a killer? Something to watch in the coming nights.

I don't think I see any correlation between the images preceeding the killings and who did them. I also don't see a correlation between the hour and who did them. Here's a listing of the kills shown as "hour - picture - type of kill"

Night 1
Rat - ninja pic - decapitation, limbs hacked (SK)
Rat - ninja pic - shurikan to back of neck
Ox - sword pic - stab to chest/slit throat

Night 2
Rat - ninja pic - punch to back of neck - broken
Rat - daggers pic (ninja?) - thrown knife to throat
Rat - sword pic - "warrior" decapitated victim with sword
Ox - ninja pic - larnyx broken, knife to eye (strength, gruesome but too "clean" for SK?)

Night 3
Rat - ninja pic - knife to throat & stab to heart, carved words on body
Rat - ninja pic - "ninja", knife to throat, 2nd unspecified stab, carved words on body
Rat - ninja pic - beaten, a blow broke arm, broken larnyx, cut off legs (SK)
Ox - sword pic - slit throat :shame:

Night 4
Rat - daggers pic (ninja?) - slit throat
Rat - ninja pic - "strong", strangled
Rat - kanabo? pic - violent beating, bashed brain, messy (SK)
Ox - sword pic - sword drawn, moved quick, but attack foiled

From what I could see, there is no pattern regarding style other than the SK (brutal and messy) - no signature strangling, throat slit, or thrown weapon preferences.

I hope this helps those with greater deductive powers than mine.

I think the psycho killer has the least experience (he can not control his anger). I also think that the master ninja (if he has killed any but maybe he did) does his work very very clean.

I'll go to read some wisdoms of old men but if an idea comes into my mind, I will share it with you. :bow:

----
I agree with Kagemusha-san. I think we have to explain our motives for the decision however vague these could be. :bow:

[TinCow]

Voting Sasaki is a bad idea, IMO. The ninjas last night went for high-profile targets, with Little Grizzly and Reenk for sure. While both Louis and Sasaki have been involved in regular discussions, Sasaki has been higher profile and Louis' death looks a lot more like the killer everyone is calling the serial killer. If we notch up the hit on Sasaki as the third ninja attack, we have LG, Reenk, and Sasaki as last night's ninja targets (which would also make Sasaki not a ninja, and thus a bad lynch choice). That group is not a coincidence; the ninjas are now playing with us with their kill choices. On N3 the pever triumvirate, on N4 an entire group of high-profile players. This indicates a well-coordinated group who are paying a lot of attention to the forums. For the ninjas, I believe we can discount people who are not checking the forums a lot. It may be worthwhile to focus on people who are active on the forums, but are lurking or otherwise posting in an entirely neutral manner in this thread.

I also think we are falling into a few bad habits on assumptions about the situation. First, the Rabbit/Ox hour connections to whether the kills are performed by ninjas/traitors. That theory seems to have more and more holes in it as time goes by. It is possible that the hours indicated in the write-up are (1) designed to indicate the order in which the kills occur, as I stated before, or (2) entirely random. We should not lock ourselves into a single view on what the hours mean, because doing so has a strong risk of obscuring the true situation.

Second, the repeated references to the 'serial killer.' There is no basis for this assumption at all. If all of those kills are the independent role, then the traitors are pretty much not killing anyone. This is highly unlikely. Just because murders are bloody/messy does not mean they cannot be done by a traitor.

Vote: Rhyfelwyr

(1) Active enough to get in a vote every day phase, but has contributed pretty much nothing of use to the town.
(2) Was a 'pever' and went after LG (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2219860&postcount=866) for voting for a pever survivor of the pever massacre. It would be a reasonable strategy for a pever to think he would look innocent if he killed a large number of the others off.
(3) Voted for LG (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=2222299#post2222299) after LG was dead. This indicates that he's not paying attention to the thread and probably didn't even read the kill write-up. Why is he so active in voting if he's not actually paying attention to the game?

[KukriKhan]

A "speak-up!" vote, before I go to the day-job:

vote: Banquo'sGhost

And I agree, we have to keep open minds on the killing 'patterns', if there are any. I think using an hour-device in the write-ups to rpovide clues would be too complicated a mechanic to maintain for any host, so I disregard its significance.

At this mid-game stage, we need to get everybody to contribute (post), so we can adequately scrutinize their motives. So Dear Lurkers: step out of the shadows and write something... anything, so we don't kill you by accident.

[Rhyfelwyr]

(1) Active enough to get in a vote every day phase, but has contributed pretty much nothing of use to the town.
(2) Was a 'pever' and went after LG (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2219860&postcount=866) for voting for a pever survivor of the pever massacre. It would be a reasonable strategy for a pever to think he would look innocent if he killed a large number of the others off.
(3) Voted for LG (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=2222299#post2222299) after LG was dead. This indicates that he's not paying attention to the thread and probably didn't even read the kill write-up. Why is he so active in voting if he's not actually paying attention to the game?

1. Well what am I supposed to do?
2. So what if I went with the pever joke... also I voted for LG because he tried to bandwagon me with the pevers just because of a OOC joke which is pointless for the tonw
3. I just forgot apologies all round etc

Now, stop trying to bandwagon me just because I am a noob at this. :no::whip:

Unvote: LittleGrizzly

Vote: TinCow

[Prince Cobra]

What is a Lurker?

A person who stays idle (WoG punishment)

A person who pretends to stay idle.

A person who reads daily but does not say a word (few words)

A person who votes or challenges without any explanation.

The groups beneath the first one can end like Sigurd. Guilty or not! :stars:

The solution: more posting, less problems!
--------
Have I forgotten anything?

[TinCow]

1. Well what am I supposed to do?
2. So what if I went with the pever joke... also I voted for LG because he tried to bandwagon me with the pevers just because of a OOC joke which is pointless for the tonw
3. I just forgot apologies all round etc

Now, stop trying to bandwagon me just because I am a noob at this. :no::whip:

Unvote: LittleGrizzly

Vote: TinCow

Bandwagon you? I'm the only person voting for you! :laugh4:

Since you're a self-proclaimed "noob" I'll help you out by letting you know that retaliatory voting is considered to be scummy by most players. It's a common reaction by inexperienced mafioso when they're put under pressure. You just made yourself look far more guilty.

[FactionHeir]

TC, how would the traitors not be killing in my classification? The traitors so far had 1 kill a night, classic samurai. The SK does his killing very differently from either Ninja and Traitors.

[TinCow]

TC, how would the traitors not be killing in my classification? The traitors so far had 1 kill a night, classic samurai. The SK does his killing very differently from either Ninja and Traitors.

Right, but if the messy killer is the serial killer, we've got a bizarre coincidence on N3. The 'SK' as we call him killed pevergreen. A SK would not be in communication with the ninjas or the traitors, which makes pevergreen's death on the night of the pever-slaughter a remarkable coincidence. What are the odds of the 'SK' going after pevergreen while one of the other factions (ninjas seem most likely) went after 2 of the other pevers?

[FactionHeir]

Slim, but why would one ninja of the 4 be completely different? And would a ninja really be that gory?

I think we are still in a stage of the game where its very difficult to determine whos is who especially because of the large number of inactives and the host's unwillingness to WoG non voters who have made at least 1 post since game start regardless of content. A detective result would be quite welcome too, though that seems to become increasingly unlikely.

If we do have a detective left though it would help if he could send his results to CA in the form of XYZ innocent/guilty without revealing his role if Andres allows. That would allow CA to direct the effort and tell who is innocent if one is to be lynched with that person to be protected at night.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

In taormina andres let us pick the kill methods, and for most of the game I made it look like the other mafia faction was still killing.

[TinCow]

Slim, but why would one ninja of the 4 be completely different? And would a ninja really be that gory?

I have no idea and I doubt it. This is why I'm cautious about making assumptions that will get us mentally locked into a SK scenario and prevent us from seeing another alternative. The evidence is too ambiguous to make an assumption either way. All we know for sure is that the messy killer is not someone we want to keep alive; we don't know whether he's solo or has a relationship of some kind with the ninjas or the traitors.

[FactionHeir]

In taormina andres let us pick the kill methods, and for most of the game I made it look like the other mafia faction was still killing.

OK who else was in Taormina who thus would know about this?

And maybe that explains the spelling error in the writeup?

[TinCow]

OK who else was in Taormina who thus would know about this?

And maybe that explains the spelling error in the writeup?

I was, and I was part of the dead mafia faction (Yakuza, was recruited on the same night Sigurd died). IIRC (without going back to look) the other mafia faction used swords or something like that on subsequent kills to make it look like the Yakuza were still alive.

[Prince Cobra]

Nominated: Voters

TosaInu: Sasaki, FactionHeir, White eyes, Beskar Total:4 v.
Tincow: YLC, Rhyfelwyr Total:2 votes
Rhyfelwyr: Tincow, Yoyoma 2v.
Yoyoma:Haudegen, Chympyang 2v.

Alphabetically:
Banquo's Ghost (BG) : Kukri 1v.
Beefy: Stephen Asen (SA) 1v.
Beskar: Husar 1v.
GH: Glenn 1v.
Sasaki:GH 1v.
Seamus: Kage 1v.




Challenges:

GH vs. TosaInu
Stephen Asen vs Beskar
White eyes vs. TosaInu
Beefy vs. GH
------------------
Glenn vs Rhyfelwyr
YLC vs Tincow

Abstain: Death is yonder, A Very Super Market (aka AVSM); taka

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check it for mistakes, please.
---------
------


Personal Comment: I really can not agree to lynch Tosa for "Hmm". Unless somebody has some more serious evidence? The same is for each samurai we decide to lynch.

[A Very Super Market]

Ack, you guys post too much.

Vote: Abstain

[taka]

i will continue to vote: abstain until i can free up some time

[FactionHeir]

Fos: taka for being active in other games but not bothering to read here and generally voting only abstain, maybe to keep himself alive?

[Kagemusha]

vote: Seamus. You seem to only post after each night a compilation on what has happened and after that disappear, while town only feels gratitude towards you. Seems like a great strategy to keep yourself under radar.:study:

[Yoyoma1910]

Petals still fall
Silently in the night.
Fists address, in helpless anguish,
The wind;
Whose laughter quietly mocks,
Replacing the sound of success.

Sometimes, though,
Young serpents
Find the liquor,
And their own tail is bitten.

Vote:Rhyfelwyr

[Husar]

Vote: Beskar

I just have a rather bad gut feeling about him, somehow I find him acting weird.

[Chimpyang]

I think the Haiku master theory still has legs after the last post by yoyoma.

So Vote:Yoyoma1910

[Beskar]

Vote: TosaInu


I just have a rather bad gut feeling

You need a doctor and a nearby toilet for that, not be voting for me.

[Haudegen]

Petals still fall
Silently in the night.
Fists address, in helpless anguish,
The wind;
Whose laughter quietly mocks,
Replacing the sound of success.

Sometimes, though,
Young serpents
Find the liquor,
And their own tail is bitten.


Hmm... I´m not an English native speaker and interpreting English poetry isn´t exactly my hobby.

Does the above text contain anything other than a certain amount of sarcasm which seems to be directed at me?

[Yoyoma1910]

Thunder speaks loudly,
But the mountain hears only the rain.

[Prince Cobra]

Vote: TosaInu

Being my favourite opponent, would you care to explain your decision? :inquisitive:



You need a doctor and a nearby toilet for that, not be voting for me.

Where is the toilet?

[Haudegen]

Thunder speaks loudly,
But the mountain hears only the rain.

I´ll be bold and take this as a "yes".

But this barbarian still doesn´t understand your words.

What are your thoughts about the game? Who do you suspect and why?

[Wishazu]

Vote:Rhyfelwyr I don`t want my reasoning to sound too lame but I basically agree with Tincows theory.

Also, tit for tat voting has been a pretty surefire giveaway in similar games i`ve played in the past on other forums. Claiming to be a noob and therefore incapable of being a clever baddie is even worse, in my experience anyway.

[Yoyoma1910]

When gazing at the stream,
One may see themselves.
But do not be fooled!
The water is not flesh:
It is but water.




In some regions,
Each wall is made of many stones
Set upon each other, interlocking,
To be strong and complete.
If a stone is removed from the wall,
Is it not then a different wall?
Does it stand as it did before?

[Peasant Phill]

Vote: Rhyfelwyr

As no other theory has emerged, I stay with my previous strategy of voting for a surviving Pever. As Rhyfelwyr has votes and YLC has none, my chance of eliminating a so called innocent Pever will be bigger if i voote for him.

[Wishazu]

Incidentally, if we manage to lynch a ninja or traitor, will we be informed of our success?

[AggonyDuck]

Vote: Yoyoma

[Gregoshi]

Vote: Yoyoma
It seems Yoyama's death would be poetic justice.

[TinCow]

Voting Sasaki is a bad idea, IMO. The ninjas last night went for high-profile targets, with Little Grizzly and Reenk for sure. While both Louis and Sasaki have been involved in regular discussions, Sasaki has been higher profile and Louis' death looks a lot more like the killer everyone is calling the serial killer. If we notch up the hit on Sasaki as the third ninja attack, we have LG, Reenk, and Sasaki as last night's ninja targets (which would also make Sasaki not a ninja, and thus a bad lynch choice). That group is not a coincidence; the ninjas are now playing with us with their kill choices. On N3 the pever triumvirate, on N4 an entire group of high-profile players. This indicates a well-coordinated group who are paying a lot of attention to the forums.

On re-reading my own post re: Sasaki, I have realized there is a problem with it. I stated the above on the basis that Sasaki was attacked by a ninja, which would make the kills a coordinated trio of hits like in the previous pever massacre. However, as I stated later, the pever massacre included the 'messy' killer whose affiliation is unknown at best. As a result of this, I'm not quite as sure anymore that Sasaki's protection is quite so innocent as it initially seemed.

I recommend that whoever protected Sasaki contact CountArach and inform him of that fact. Under the circumstances, there aren't many good reasons for a pro-town doctor to withhold this information from a player who is stated as a pro-town player in the very rules themselves. If CountArach gets this information, he can simply inform the rest of us that Sasaki's protection was innocent and not the result of a mafioso power.

I still think it's a bad idea to vote for Sasaki at the moment, but his protection needs to be explored and we eventually need to get some kind of verification on this one way or another. The town needs to make sure this incident is not forgotten and if we do not see any info on it within the next day or so, pressure should be applied via votes.

[Yoyoma1910]

:san_angry:


Everyone's a critic.

[Andres]

Incidentally, if we manage to lynch a ninja or traitor, will we be informed of our success?

No.

There may be a small hint or hidden clue, though.

[Haudegen]

Ok, let me try to translate this:


When gazing at the stream,
One may see themselves.
But do not be fooled!
The water is not flesh:
It is but water.


Confucius say: Haudegen´s Haiku Theories are crap.

Ok, point taken.




In some regions,
Each wall is made of many stones
Set upon each other, interlocking,
To be strong and complete.
If a stone is removed from the wall,
Is it not then a different wall?
Does it stand as it did before?

Confucius say: I don´t want to alter my writing style.

Hey, we all want to be unique. But IMHO this doesn´t make you free from the burden of trying to support the town.

[FactionHeir]

No.

There may be a small hint or hidden clue, though.

How about if they get night killed or die in a duel? Or if they are WoGed?

And as per my suggestion, could the town's detective (if any) PM CA saying XYZ is innocent/guilty without saying "I'm the detective and found that..."?

[Banquo's Ghost]

OOC: I'll respond in more depth to Kukri's note later, but I am rather tied up tonight, so all I can contribute is an abstention. I'm also trying to get the hang of this game by reading the more experienced, so forgive my silence.

Vote: Abstain

[Prince Cobra]

Nominated: Voters
Alphabetically:


Rhyfelwyr: Tincow, Yoyoma, Wishazu, Phil 4v.
TosaInu: Sasaki, FactionHeir, White eyes, Beskar Total:4 v.
Beskar: Husar, Stephen Asen (SA) 2v.
Tincow: YLC, Rhyfelwyr Total:2 votes
Yoyoma: Chympyang, Duckie 2v.
Banquo's Ghost (BG) : Kukri 1v.
GH: Glenn 1v.
Sasaki:GH 1v.
Seamus: Kage 1v.




Challenges:

GH vs. TosaInu
Stephen Asen vs Beskar
White eyes vs. TosaInu
Beefy vs. GH
------------------
Glenn vs Rhyfelwyr
YLC vs Tincow

Abstain: Death is yonder, A Very Super Market (aka AVSM); taka; BG

:bow:

[Yoyoma1910]

Ok, let me try to translate this:



Confucius say: Haudegen´s Haiku Theories are crap.

Ok, point taken.



Actually I was saying that my poetry (which lately hasn't been haiku) has not been focused at you, as you seem to imagine.



Confucius say: I don´t want to alter my writing style.

Hey, we all want to be unique. But IMHO this doesn´t make you free from the burden of trying to support the town.

And here I'm stating that you removed the vote section of one of my posts, which caused it to loose it's meaning.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Fools!

[TinCow]

Fools!

If you're just an innocent townie, there's no harm in revealing. The only thing of any significance in a townie role PM is the battle rating, which you could edit out, as long as CountArach has a copy. So, go ahead post your role PM if you'd like to prove your innocence,

[GeneralHankerchief]

Posting a role PM proves nothing unless you have a special role. It's likely that the mafiosi already have cover roles.

[FactionHeir]

Fools as in "We who follow the great Takeda Shingen"? Is that an admission of guilt? :grin:

[Prince Cobra]

OOC: As far as I can remember we are forbidden under WoG to post role Pms.

[Beskar]

We are not allowed to private our names or our roles. But I think we can private anything else, even love letters.

[Prince Cobra]

Fools as in "We who follow the great Takeda Shingen"? Is that an admission of guilt? :grin:

As far as I can remember, the aim is to kill anti town, not to kill a player. It's indeed infuriating to be annoyed in such a way. He can be guilty, or not.

[Haudegen]

Actually I was saying that my poetry (which lately hasn't been haiku) has not been focused at you, as you seem to imagine.



And here I'm stating that you removed the vote section of one of my posts, which caused it to loose it's meaning.

Well, ok.

It´s been a pleasure doing conversation with you, sir!

unvote: Yoyoma1910

[Prince Cobra]

We are not allowed to private our names or our roles. But I think we can private anything else, even love letters.

Could you reply to my question, Bes? :stwmean:

Elucidation: it is in the previous page. :bow:

[TinCow]

Posting a role PM proves nothing unless you have a special role. It's likely that the mafiosi already have cover roles.

Forged role PMs can often be spotted, it's worth fishing for them. AFAIK, Andres has never supplied mafioso with cover role PMs in his games, and I see nothing to indicate they would have them in this one. Therefore any fake covers would have to be forged. And despite all of the above, it's still of no harm for a potential lynchee to post a role PM if he's just a townie.


OOC: As far as I can remember we are forbidden under WoG to post role Pms.

They cannot be posted privately. Publicly is perfectly fine.

Rules:

* It's not allowed to quote role pm's or night actions results in private. Feel free to quote all other pm traffic (and chatlogs/e-mails), including mine (unless I explicity state in a particular pm that you are not allowed to quote it) in the thread. You can quote/fabricate/forge anything you want both in public and in private.

[Andres]

How about if they get night killed or die in a duel? Or if they are WoGed?

No reveal, maybe a small hint or a hidden clue, but nothing obvious.


And as per my suggestion, could the town's detective (if any) PM CA saying XYZ is innocent/guilty without saying "I'm the detective and found that..."?


* Revealing your role or character name "in private" (= outside of this thread) is not allowed.
* It's not allowed to quote role pm's or night actions results in private.

Anyone who isn't sure that his PM is in accordance with the rules, should ask the opinion of the host before sending it.

[Andres]

OOC: As far as I can remember we are forbidden under WoG to post role Pms.

You are allowed to quote your role pm in public (= in this thread), it's forbidden to do so in private (unless I explicitly said otherwise to a player through pm).

[Prince Cobra]

OK, anyway, you are the top of my list. It's time to make you popular. Until I do not receive a good answer you can rely on my vote

Unvote: Beefy
Vote: Beskar

Reason: His omnipresence in each bandwagon since the beginning of the game, his attempt to twist my words when I was on the verge of destruction and of course, to reduce the risk in a duel + to make clear that my challenge is anything but not a random one.


Vote: TosaInu



You need a doctor and a nearby toilet for that, not be voting for me.

Could you explain the grounds for your decision?

[Prince Cobra]

10 minutes before the dead-line

Nominated: Voters
Alphabetically:


Rhyfelwyr: Tincow, Yoyoma, Wishazu, Phil 4v.
TosaInu: Sasaki, FactionHeir, White eyes, Beskar. athetos Total:5 v.
Beskar: Husar, Stephen Asen (SA) 2v.
Tincow: YLC, Rhyfelwyr Total:2 votes
Yoyoma: Chympyang, Duckie 2v.
Banquo's Ghost (BG) : Kukri 1v.
GH: Glenn 1v.
Sasaki:GH 1v.
Seamus: Kage 1v.




Challenges:

GH vs. TosaInu
Stephen Asen vs Beskar
White eyes vs. TosaInu
Beefy vs. GH
------------------
Glenn vs Rhyfelwyr
YLC vs Tincow

Abstain: Death is yonder, A Very Super Market (aka AVSM); taka; BG

:bow:

[Beskar]

Could you explain the grounds for your decision?

He lurks like hell. Plus his post.

Anyway, it is a known fact I am an innocent townie. Trying to pin things on me either means you are rather silly or a mafia-role.

[atheotes]

hmm... no strong cases have been built for anyone... but Tosa's post arouses suspicion...:juggle2:
Vote: TosaInu

think i made it just in time.... :sweatdrop:

[FactionHeir]

Andres you didn't answer my Q ~:)

[Prince Cobra]

hmm... no strong cases have been built for anyone... but Tosa's post arouses suspicion...:juggle2:
Vote: TosaInu

think i made it just in time.... :sweatdrop:



Sasaki-san, do you really believe that words "hmmm" can be enough evidence? Or you have more than one hint?

:bow:

I wouldn't say that I had more than a hint.

*****

My read of his post was that he was surprised about his kill not going through and tried to correct for it when I voted for him. He's been lurking anyway...

Sasaki

It' still hard to understand your vote. Repeating old mistakes (Sigurd), I think. Although there is never 100% guarantee I think we have killed the wrong person. :shame:

[Andres]

Andres you didn't answer my Q ~:)

My answer is there (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2223077&postcount=1219) :bow:

EDIT : voting concluded. Stand by for execution.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

If you're just an innocent townie, there's no harm in revealing. The only thing of any significance in a townie role PM is the battle rating, which you could edit out, as long as CountArach has a copy. So, go ahead post your role PM if you'd like to prove your innocence,

Tell me I'm not the only one who sees the suspicion thing about this post...

[Prince Cobra]

What I see is that Beskar killed another person. What is this voting without any explanation!

[Beskar]

TinCow is a fake copy of the Golden Calf from Moses. he can't be trusted.

As I said earlier, if you think it's me, you are either silly or a mafia-role trying to remove blame from himself.

[Yoyoma1910]

Tell me I'm not the only one who sees the suspicion thing about this post...

Two drops of water
May fall simultaneous,
And together
Make one sound.

[Prince Cobra]

As I said earlier, if you think it's me, you are either silly or a mafia-role trying to remove blame from himself.

Besark, this was... a remarkable explanation. :bow:
-----------
The words of TinCow worth considering, though. They can mean much, but they can also mean nothing. :book: :stupido: :wall:

[FactionHeir]

Hmmm atheothes cast the deciding vote at the last minute....me no like.

[Haudegen]

Hmmm atheothes cast the deciding vote at the last minute....me no like.

My feeling exactly. Is he a gameroom-veteran who should have known better?

[atheotes]

It' still hard to understand your vote. Repeating old mistakes (Sigurd), I think. Although there is never 100% guarantee I think we have killed the wrong person. :shame:

Well.. Tosa seemed genuinely surprised... and from what i have gathered he is new to Mafia just like me... I thought i would be surprised if i had a role and my kill was blocked (provided role-blocking/protection was unknown)...:juggle2:

Also, were the role assignments done by Andres or is it random too? :inquisitive: If it was assigned by Andres i wouldnt be surprised if he gave roles to a few experienced players and one or two new players who he might know well.... i dont think i am getting anywhere with this :wall:

so lets just say i voted on a hunch :shame:

[Prince Cobra]

Well.. Tosa seemed genuinely surprised... and from what i have gathered he is new to Mafia just like me... I thought i would be surprised if i had a role and my kill was blocked (provided role-blocking/protection was unknown)...:juggle2:

Also, were the role assignments done by Andres or is it random too? :inquisitive: If it was assigned by Andres i wouldnt be surprised if he gave roles to a few experienced players and one or two new players who he might know well.... i dont think i am getting anywhere with this :wall:

so lets just say i voted on a hunch :shame:


I hope you've got luck. Otherwise dark days are coming for us.

[atheotes]

Hmmm atheothes cast the deciding vote at the last minute....me no like.

i dint realize mine would be the casting vote... :no:


My feeling exactly. Is he a gameroom-veteran who should have known better?


this is my first game....Never played Mafia before...anywhere, anyform.

[Andres]

~~~ Swords in the Moon ~~~



Day 4 - Conclusion.


https://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t2/AndresTheCunning/Swords%20in%20the%20Moon/sneeuwjapan2.jpg

Hour of the Monkey

" A freezing winter
" The sharp cold stops living things
" Branches are leafless

Saruwatari Ryou (TosaInu) looked at the freshly written poem. He sighed. It wasn’t what he wanted it to be. He hadn’t really thought about it before, since he had never expected to be ordered to commit seppuku. Who would have thought that clearing his throat after days of silence would make him a suspect of murder?

Saruwatari sighed again and he looked around him. The sound dampening snow and the silence created by the freezing cold made him feel at peace. The sky was dark blue and the first twinkling stars became visible. Stars, inviting his soul to join them.

The man in the white kimono smiled at the stars. Surely, so far away, there would only be silence and peace. Silence and peace, like on a cold winter evening.

Finally accepting his karma, he picked up the clean and sharp knife in front of him. He opened his kimono and took a final deep breath. He pierced the knife through the skin of his belly, right into his inner organs. The sudden loss of blood made him feel light in the head and for a moment, there was only peace and the beauty of the silent winter evening. Before the pain could reach him, the blade of his kaishakunin struck mercifully.

Lord Takeda nodded respectfully towards the body.


Oguri Hatsuharu (Jolt) and Saruwatari Izumi (Beaver) were watching the scene. When somebody ordered them to come forward to carry the body, a rock above them fell down, bringing with it an avalanche of snow, ice and rocks. It took several hours to dig them up and when the digging samurai finally reached the bodies of their two comrades, they were already dead.


~~~

Tally:

TosaInu : 5 (FactionHeir, Beskar, White_Eyes:D, atheotes, Sasaki Kojiro) :skull:

Rhyfelwyr: 4 (Yoyoma1910, Wishazu, Peasant Phill, TinCow)
Yoyoma1910: 2 (AggonyDuck, Chimpyang)
Beskar: 2 (Husar, Stephen Asen)
TinCow: 2 (YLC, Rhyfelwyr)
Seamus: 1 (Kagemusha)
Caius: 1 (Psychonaut)
GeneralHankerchief: 1 (Glenn)
Sasaki Kojiro: 1 (GeneralHankerchief)
Banquo's Ghost: 1 (Kukrikhan)

abstain: 4 (AVSM, Banquo's Ghost, Death is yonder, taka)

Not voting: 19 (Crazed Rabbit, Tristan de Castelreng, Quintus.JC, CountArach, Gobbledygook, Caius, ajaxfetish, Captain Blackadder, Ichigo, TosaInu, Seamus Fermanagh, woad&fangs, Yaropolk, Dutch_guy, Haudegen, Jolt, Beaver, Beefy187, glyphz)


~~~

Challenges:


1. Stephen Asen vs. Beskar
2. Beefy187 vs. GeneralHankerchief
3. Glenn vs. Rhyfelwyr
4. YLC vs. TinCow


Note: since TosaInu got lynched, the duels GeneralHankerchief vs. TosaInu and White_Eyes:D vs. TosaInu became null and void.


~~~


Alive (40):

TinCow
Quintus.JC
GeneralHankerchief
FactionHeir
Caius
Glenn
Beefy187
Ichigo
Wishazu
White_Eyes:D
Sasaki Kojiro
Stephen Assen
Peasant Phill
Kukrikhan
Captain Blackadder
A Very Super Market
Gobbledygook
Psychonaut
taka
YLC
Rhyfelwyr
AggonyDuck
Beskar
atheotes
Kagemusha
CountArach
Husar
Death is yonder
Tristan de Castelreng
Chimpyang
Yoyoma1910
Seamus Fermanagh
Banquo's Ghost
Crazed Rabbit
Haudegen
woad&fangs
ajaxfetish
glyphz
Dutch_guy
Yaropolk


Killed (14):
Khazaar
spL1tp3r50nal1ty
Lord Winter
The Spartan
Iskander III
Shinseikhaan
Olavi
Thermal Mercury
Chaotix27
pevergreen
Gregoshi
Reenk Roink
LittleGrizzly
Louis VI the Fat


Fallen in battle (3):
Northnovas
Ignoramus
El Diablo


Lynched (4):
Askthepizzaguy
Sigurd
shlin28
TosaInu


WoG/Suicide (3):
Xehh II
Jolt
Beaver

~~~


It's now night; PM's please. Night will end at 21.30 (GMT+1); that's within +/- 23h30m







:bow:

[Yaropolk]

I say Sasaki is the Ninja master and Stephen Asen is the traitor. Gut-feelings.




Kiyonaga looked at the silent man sitting in front of him.

"Kato Danzo-san, the Uesugi clan has an important task for you. As you are well aware, the constant battles between my Lord and Lord Takeda Shingen are exhausting our resources. The Tiger of Kai has been an obstacle on my masters' path to glory for many years now and it has to be removed."

The mysterious man nodded silently.

Kiyonaga continued: "Allthough an excellent general on the field of honor, the Tiger is pretty predictable when it comes to his habits during the Winter season. He will probably spend his time in his yashiki (mansion) in Kofu, only surrounded by his best men. Bring me his head and you will be rewarded generously."

Kato Danzo bowed. "So it will be, Kiyonaga-sama."

The ninja master left the tent without making a sound.


:wings:



Sasaki - what was the point of this post?

[Rhyfelwyr]

Fine this is my role PM:

Rhyfelwhyr

Date Bontenmaru – veteran samurai

Konichi wa, Date-san

You are one of the chosen samurai to join your master to his yashiki. This is a great honor and you are very grateful to your master.

You have been in many battles for him and you have the scars to prove it.

As a samurai, you live to serve and there is no greater honor then to die in the service of your master.

You will protect Takeda Shingen-sama with your life.

Battle rating: ???

Abilities:
- During the day, you can vote for the players that you consider to be suspicous, as explained in the rules in the first post of the game thread.
- You can also challenge one other player to a duel during the day. If the kami of the mountain decide that you have to duel, then that duel will be fought at sunrise, right before the start of the next day.
- During the night, you sleep.

Gokouun o inorimasu (good luck)!

I scored out the battle rating since I'm not supposed to post that, right?

[Beskar]

Sasaki - what was the point of this post?

His character name isn't that of the Ninja master, therefore, it isn't him.

I do want to know who saved him though.. as in, was it a pro-town or an anti-town role.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

My name was revealed in the writeup--and it wasn't kato danzo.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

You shouldn't have posted it at ALL.

TinCow seriously has to die next round.

[atheotes]

Looks like I made a mistake... if i had abstained from voting it could have been a tie... :wall:
Apologies to TosaInu :stwshame:

[FactionHeir]

An h too much in your role name and a missing part at the end?

[TinCow]

You shouldn't have posted it at ALL.

TinCow seriously has to die next round.

Your argument is overwhelming.

[Quintus.JC]

Anyway, it is a known fact I am an innocent townie. Trying to pin things on me either means you are rather silly or a mafia-role.

Known fact – somehow I cannot see it.

Never played with Beskar before, but you’re either a hyperactive town, or an incrediblely daring and audacious Mafioso.


Sasaki’s protection looks mostly likely to be contributed by the doctor/protector. The write-up was too ambiguous to tell which party attacked Sasaki, the only certain murder committed by the ninjas was Reenk’s kill, the rest could had either been done by the traitor or the Ninjas, while Louis appeared to have been killed by the deranged, gory SK.

[LittleGrizzly]

Yeah it would be alot better to keep some back.... im sure TinCow would know its better to have a little by little rather than clear one suspect completely..

FoS TinCow

Edit: I would have guessed mine and reenks kills would be linked...

[Yaropolk]

I think both LG and Reenk Roink were killed by Ninjas, if one was under suspicion then both were.

[The Spartan (Returns)]

Wow! Still not over? Still so many villagers left!