The Shadow Fort [Concluded]

[Kagemusha]

Sorry Kage for inviting you to be the first lynch of the game.:shame:

I so would have voted Beskar.

No problemo. Im dead but im not going anywhere. As the scum in this game will sooner or later will find out. Sasaki it is quite rude to just answer to a part of someones post. Tell me why you of all people decided to jump a bandwagon? This was clearly before i answered with bit of irritation that tired human can show when he is attacked with empty charges and bandwagon while working more then 60 hours per week. My only regret is that i didnt have more time to defend myself because i wasnt anywhere near computer, first sleeping then working.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Sasaki called me out for lurking. I'd better increase my post count and contribute to the discussion.

Methos is totally guilty. I repeated the eeny meeny miney moe experiment, and lo and behold, he was found to be "it" again. Repeated scientific testing has concluded that he must be guilty.

[Kagemusha]

Sasaki called me out for lurking. I'd better increase my post count and contribute to the discussion.

Methos is totally guilty. I repeated the eeny meeny miney moe experiment, and lo and behold, he was found to be "it" again. Repeated scientific testing has concluded that he must be guilty.

So have you decided to kill Methos next night, so we can find out in few days was he really guilty. That would be the quickest way to find out. Basically you would be doing a favour for the fort.In matter of fact why wait for lynching anyone suspicious, when people can simply form up and kill them?

[Askthepizzaguy]

So have you decided to kill Methos next night, so we can find out in few days was he really guilty. That would be the quickest way to find out. Basically you would be doing a favour for the fort.In matter of fact why wait for lynching anyone suspicious, when people can simply form up and kill them?

I assume that after repeatedly declaring that Methos is guilty, someone else might do the honors.

Some weaklings try to determine guilt via investigation. Pish tosh. I have divined the truth using unassailable logic.

[Kagemusha]

I assume that after repeatedly declaring that Methos is guilty, someone else might do the honors.

Some weaklings try to determine guilt via investigation. Pish tosh. I have divined the truth using unassailable logic.

In matter of fact i think you are right. Repeating argument endlesly is usually lot more effective way then trying to back up arguments with any line of thought. I wonder example if i started saying that Sasaki is guilty. in all my posts. What you think how many rounds would it take for it to be general concencus?

[White_eyes:D]

Alright im back after 13 hour workday. I really must confess that some of you people crack me up.
In my first post i vote ATGP, because he is seemingly voting a player that has announced he would be gone. The first reaction is that White_eyes:D instantly votes me with the following reasoning:


"So this might not be a ploy and people have stopped lying in mafia games? *Cough*Chicago Sorrie*Cough* "

Now i dont know what Chicago Sorrie is, maybe a reacent mafia game? Cant really tell. But how i understand it is that he criticizes me from being naive and votes me based on that. I really dont know, maybe someone oughta ask him.One of the BIGGEST lurker lying victory's at the Org.:no:

TinCow, Andres, Pizzaguy, Thermal mercury, Reenk and Khaan know that pain too well:shame:

Sigurd got some votes on himself in there and manage to save himself by messaging a fellow Mod that "He was too busy" and we all gave him a break for it..:shrug:

He also dropped his post count across the Org. for that one.....and did Massive custom Kill-up writes.....I never lurked in "The Godfather 3" when I was playing(I was busy too:stare:) but I gave Sasaki something to go off STILL:laugh4:

[Kagemusha]

One of the BIGGEST lurker lying victory's at the Org.:no:

TinCow, Andres, Pizzaguy, Thermal mercury, Reenk and Khaan know that pain too well:shame:

Sigurd got some votes on himself in there and manage to save himself by messaging a fellow Mod that "He was too busy" and we all gave him a break for it..:shrug:

He also dropped his post count across the Org. for that one.....and did Massive custom Kill-up writes.....I never lurked in "The Godfather 3" when I was playing(I was busy too:stare:) but I gave Sasaki something to go off STILL:laugh4:

And because i didnt know about such game that was reason to vote me? And by the way Sasaki is guilty.

[Askthepizzaguy]

In matter of fact i think you are right. Repeating argument endlesly is usually lot more effective way then trying to back up arguments with any line of thought. I wonder example if i started saying that Sasaki is guilty. in all my posts. What you think how many rounds would it take for it to be general concencus?

It's practically a rule already.

Actually I have done this before. I Jolt's game I picked on Khaan right from round one and I didn't let go until he was lynched. He turned out to be guilty. It is my great hope that I can repeat this feat right here, right now, with the guilty one known as Methos. What more evidence does one need than my random finger pointing?

[White_eyes:D]

You were trying to defend Methos....who is on my Lurker list:smoking:

[Thermal]

Yeah, but you got upset at a few votes tossed your way and suggested we lynch you. That sounded more like mafia. Like you had a particular reason not to want to die, unlike just being a townie.

The "traveled Europe" bit from the lynch scene is odd, but CR said he wasn't revealing role until a couple days later.

I think its worth considering that Kage doesn't regularly play mafia games, I said the same thing for Ibn, whilst people are trying to find there feet in a game, it doesn't help when a gang of people are on standby to bandwagon for the most trivial reasons ever.

[Kagemusha]

It's practically a rule already.

Actually I have done this before. I Jolt's game I picked on Khaan right from round one and I didn't let go until he was lynched. He turned out to be guilty. It is my great hope that I can repeat this feat right here, right now, with the guilty one known as Methos. What more evidence does one need than my random finger pointing?

Im quite sure that is completely enough for the mob. Unfortunately i must go to sleep now as i should be working in about 6 hours from now. But remember all Sasaki is guilty.

[White_eyes:D]

I think its worth considering that Kage doesn't regularly play mafia games, I said the same thing for Ibn, whilst people are trying to find there feet in a game, it doesn't help when a gang of people are on standby to bandwagon for the most trivial reasons ever.Only mafia-scum think this way....it's a "towing the line" tactic:inquisitive:
TH you just earned a spot on my "list":bounce:

[TinCow]

Persistently voting for lurkers might seem like a noble thing to do but it isn't likely to find your culprit, Psychonaut sees lots of votes on his name, appears once and you let him off the hook, I'm not saying he is mafia, but if he is he didn't have to try hard to convince you otherwise. :inquisitive:

I didn't find any of the candidates today to be a good vote. There were simply varying degrees of poor choices. Under those circumstances, I found it more productive to urge a few of the quieter people to speak up.

[Thermal]

Only mafia-scum think this way....it's a "towing the line" tactic:inquisitive:
TH you just earned a spot on my "list":bounce:

Are you sure about that? The reasons were trivial, I believe the best case against him was that he voted for atheotes who already had a few votes (shock horror) I look at the people who vote for him and they don't give a good reason, its either 'I'll bandwagon on Kage' < Joooray or no reason at all (Secura, CDF). Sasaki and Yaropolk give reasons but neither are particularly strong, not that I mind them voting for him, but more the 4 that mindlessly vote afterwards. So you see White Eyes, it is trivial, so I couldn't give a flying sheep if I touched your scum dar (no offense :wink: ).

Perhaps only mafia scum would be able to get my initials wrong though. :grin:

[Diamondeye]

No problemo. Im dead but im not going anywhere. As the scum in this game will sooner or later will find out. Sasaki it is quite rude to just answer to a part of someones post. Tell me why you of all people decided to jump a bandwagon? This was clearly before i answered with bit of irritation that tired human can show when he is attacked with empty charges and bandwagon while working more then 60 hours per week. My only regret is that i didnt have more time to defend myself because i wasnt anywhere near computer, first sleeping then working.

I voted against you because I honestly believed more in Beskar's innocence than yours. Time will tell if I was right.

[White_eyes:D]

Perhaps only mafia scum would be able to get my initials wrong though. :grin:
Or it could be that your Mafia-scum trying to get off my "list"....:laugh4:(keep posting and I will take you off; I Promise:deal2:)

[Thermal]

Or it could be that your Mafia-scum trying to get off my "list"....:laugh4:(keep posting and I will take you off; I Promise:deal2:)

I don't buy it, but seeing as this is a post, it should work if your telling the truth. :shifty:

Besides, if someone has doubts about my alignment, it only makes sense that I want to correct you before your doubts turn into a Thermal Mercury pandemic.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Or it could be that your Mafia-scum trying to get off my "list"....:laugh4:(keep posting and I will take you off; I Promise:deal2:)

And what "list" would that be?
A list where are listed all townies who you as mafia want to kill?

[Secura]

I gave my reason on both occasions, Thermal.

The votes were equal, and I didn't believe Beskar to be scum, so I voted Kagemusha to save him; someone I've known ten years against someone I don't even know... it was a no-brainer. One of them was always going to be of more use to the town due to his activity and commitment... go figure which one it is.

Call it what you will, but a mindless vote is insulting.

[White_eyes:D]

And what "list" would that be?
A list where are listed all townies who you as mafia want to kill?
If I was totally brain-less.....converting>killing its why we might have a couple of "bloodless nights" or maybe not:shrug:

[Thermal]

I gave my reason on both occasions, Thermal.

The votes were equal, and I didn't believe Beskar to be scum, so I voted Kagemusha to save him; someone I've known ten years against someone I don't even know... it was a no-brainer. One of them was always going to be of more use to the town due to his activity and intellect... go figure which one it is.

Call it what you will, but a mindless vote is insulting.

I didn't know you knew each other. :smiley:

Either way I don't buy that you didn't find him suspicious. Post 395 #


unvote: Beskar
FoS: Beskar

On the basis that this behaviour is apparantly typical of both atheotes and Beskie; there's not enough reason to lynch either of them really, but there's still the small matter of editing those PMs to paint atheotes as suspicious.

You said this before voting for Kage, your opinion of Beskar drastically changed did it not?

:inquisitive:

[johnhughthom]

One of them was always going to be of more use to the town due to his activity and intellect... go figure which one it is.

Umm, the one who totally sidetracked the dicussion for a whole voting period with a silly joke?

[Secura]

I didn't know you knew each other. :smiley:

Yups, for a very long time... unfortunately for him. :P


Either way I don't buy that you didn't find him suspicious. Post 395 #

You said this before voting for Kage, your opinion of Beskar drastically changed did it not?

Someone had to bait the trap, treacle. If a few people hopped onto his trap (with either a vote for Beskar or atheotes, it didn't matter), others would soon follow. The technique has worked in other games (Pizza in An Unlikely Pair, for example), it was likely to work even better in a bigger game.

Beskie and I can't really lie to one another, whether it is in person, over the phone or over instant messaging; he's able to know when I'm lying, and vice versa.


Umm, the one who totally sidetracked the dicussion for a whole voting period with a silly joke?

On one hand, you have Kagemusha, who has professed to be busy with work and such. This is most unfortunate, yes, but it's unavoidable. Real life should always take precedence. But he's unable to currently commit fully, right?

On the other, you have Naughty Beskie; yes, he did sidetrack things a little, but he's able to commit to the game and is an active poster.

Ultimately he's given the town a little to work with the next phase; we have people who voted Beskar or atheotes presented in this thread, and they are somewhat suspect for the ease with which they jumped onto a weak argument that was simply manipulated by Beskie.

I present Chaotix as the case in point.

[Thermal]

On the other, you have Naughty Beskie; yes, he did sidetrack things a little, but he's able to commit to the game and is an active poster.



Had we of listened, we would have killed most likely a townie in the process, I'd rather inactive than mafia-helping (even though kage was still pretty active anyway).

[Secura]

Had we of listened, we would have killed most likely a townie in the process, I'd rather inactive than mafia-helping (even though kage was still pretty active anyway).

That is true, yes, but there were those who paid no heed to the situation because they saw it for exactly what it was; johnhughthom and Sasaki being just two of them. :3

It was definitely a risky strategy (because the town could have lost atheotes or Beskar), but I think it's given us some things to work with in the next phase even if we have a repeat of the previous night phase.

As an aside but to address your last point... personally, I would rather have anything than inactive people, just because I dislike people signing up to games and then being noncommittal; sometimes circumstances crop up whereby you cannot participate as you once thought you could, but to just be "meh, I'm only a townie" for example, that irks me. But to each their own, no?

[Beskar]

Had we of listened, we would have killed most likely a townie in the process, I'd rather inactive than mafia-helping (even though kage was still pretty active anyway).

Yes, I was helping the mafia by creating talk, conversation and results in the beginning of the game when we had zero. Good thing we have people with your inductive reasoning skills on our side, who needs mafia?

[Thermal]

That is true, yes, but there were those who paid no heed to the situation because they saw it for exactly what it was; johnhughthom and Sasaki being just two of them. :3

It was definitely a risky strategy (because the town could have lost atheotes or Beskar), but I think it's given us some things to work with in the next phase even if we have a repeat of the previous night phase.

As an aside but to address your last point... personally, I would rather have anything than inactive people, just because I dislike people signing up to games and then being noncommittal; sometimes circumstances crop up whereby you cannot participate as you once thought you could, but to just be "meh, I'm only a townie" for example, that irks me. But to each their own, no?

Well I like players to be active too, besides, Kage is one of the most active players on the thread, or was, check the post counts. :tongue:


Yes, I was helping the mafia by creating talk, conversation and results in the beginning of the game when we had zero. Good thing we have people with your inductive reasoning skills on our side, who needs mafia?

Just...just classic... :laugh4: . Your shameless.

[Csargo]

On one hand, you have Kagemusha, who has professed to be busy with work and such. This is most unfortunate, yes, but it's unavoidable. Real life should always take precedence. But he's unable to currently commit fully, right?

On the other, you have Naughty Beskie; yes, he did sidetrack things a little, but he's able to commit to the game and is an active poster.

Ultimately he's given the town a little to work with the next phase; we have people who voted Beskar or atheotes presented in this thread, and they are somewhat suspect for the ease with which they jumped onto a weak argument that was simply manipulated by Beskie.

I present Chaotix as the case in point.

Beskar - 31
Kage - 24

Numbers don't lie. Just because he was busy doesn't mean he wasn't fully commited to the game.

Beskar should have been lynched. Rar I will get you Beskar.

[Secura]

Well I like players to be active too, besides, Kage is one of the most active players on the thread, or was, check the post counts. :tongue:

That's fair enough then!

I don't know how to do that though, Thermal; all I saw was Kagemusha professing to have hectic shifts with work and being exhausted, in addition to the slightly scummy acts that had led people to vote for him prior to Beskar's trap.

Aside of the fact that Beskar and I are friends and I knew him to be innocent, there is the fact that I felt he was contributing alot more to the thread (even if some of it was mischievous) in terms of generating conversation points when the town had very, very little to work with. Day Two was going to become a repeat of Day One without something like that happening. Kagemusha, in comparison, was posting more in defense of himself than to generate town conversation.

As I said, the votes were deadlocked, I didn't want Beskar lynched, so I voted as I did. If I wasn't certain that Beskie was a simple traveller, I wouldn't have voted for Kagemusha. That's all there is to it, I apologise if it's ruffled any feathers. :3

[Beskar]

Looks like I am dead in the morning anyway. Been told there is a vig kill being done by some certain people which wouldn't be a stretch of imagination as to who they are.

[atheotes]

Vote:atheotes


Sorry Kage for inviting you to be the first lynch of the game.:shame:

I so would have voted Beskar.


Beskar - 31
Kage - 24

Numbers don't lie. Just because he was busy doesn't mean he wasn't fully commited to the game.

Beskar should have been lynched. Rar I will get you Beskar.


:juggle2:

[a completely inoffensive name]

I don't understand. Beskar is a townie. Why are people trying to get rid of him?

[seireikhaan]

Giant flaw in the strategy- the mafia really don't care too much about bandwaggoning on day 1- odds are simply so low that they'll get targeted, so they can usually get by safely by avoiding the muck that you just created. All this whole thing did was create confusion and get, most likely, regular townsfolk even more into the lynch-light than normal for day 1, which is pretty darn impressive.

Also, Beskar, don't be so melodramatic.

[Secura]

Because he's a Naughty Beskie. :D

[Thermal]

That's fair enough then!

I don't know how to do that though,

I didn't for a while either, you go to the gameroom area where you can see how many replies each topic has, double click where it shows the number of thread replies and each persons post count for the thread will be shown.




there is the fact that I felt he was contributing alot more to the thread (even if some of it was mischievous)


Well initially he didn't talk much at all, but he made up for it, regardless of that, most of his posts were one liners with little substance, kage did have some decent amounts of text in his post, of course it is quality over quantity, but Beskar's 33 posts in this thread probably equate to very little at all.




in terms of generating conversation points when the town had very, very little to work with. Day Two was going to become a repeat of Day One without something like that happening. Kagemusha, in comparison, was posting more in defense of himself than to generate town conversation.


There is nothing wrong with generating conversation, you can do that by questioning people or applying pressure to people by voting for them, lying about someones identity, whilst I admit is a conversation booster, is probably the worst way to boost it. We had very little to work with on day 2, yes, so aside from lying, what made him think we'd believe him? If he wanted some creditably he should have told the lie about someone else given the obvious knowledge of Beskar and Atheotes feud, it only served as a distraction that would be took with a pinch of salt....



As I said, the votes were deadlocked, I didn't want Beskar lynched, so I voted as I did. If I wasn't certain that Beskie was a simple traveller, I wouldn't have voted for Kagemusha. That's all there is to it, I apologise if it's ruffled any feathers. :3

Well to be fair, the people I listed to have no reasoning all did have reasoning, its just that it wasn't reasoning to lynch kage, or simply just fairly low grade reasoning, everyone can have a reason, bandwagonning is a reason, just not a very good one. :tongue:

[Centurion1]

secura lets be honest here you voted for kage because you are friends with beskie....... :laugh:

[Secura]

secura lets be honest here you voted for kage because you are friends with beskie....... :laugh:

Oh, but I have been; I've already stated my reasons, there's nothing more to discuss. :3

[Centurion1]

Oh, but I have been; I've already stated my reasons, there's nothing more to discuss. :3

:inquisitive:

[Secura]

I know Beskar is innocent and I know why he made the claims he did; various people have already explained his motives in the thread, go back and look through them all.

Against someone I don't know the slightest thing about, I was always going to vote as I did.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Giant flaw in the strategy- the mafia really don't care too much about bandwaggoning on day 1- odds are simply so low that they'll get targeted, so they can usually get by safely by avoiding the muck that you just created. All this whole thing did was create confusion and get, most likely, regular townsfolk even more into the lynch-light than normal for day 1, which is pretty darn impressive. Also, Beskar, don't be so melodramatic.

This is what I said, basically, right after Kagemusha died.

Kage thinks mafia had to be on the bandwagon against him. Sadly, it is usually town behind that kind of silliness. It's why I recommended we get a leader to prevent this kind of headless chickenry.

[Thermal]

This is what I said, basically, right after Kagemusha died.

Kage thinks mafia had to be on the bandwagon against him. Sadly, it is usually town behind that kind of silliness. It's why I recommended we get a leader to prevent this kind of headless chickenry.

Unless the leader is a headless chicken :brood:

Nice of you to show up by the way :dozey:

[johnhughthom]

It's why I recommended we get a leader to prevent this kind of headless chickenry.

Who would want the job, and more importantly, who could do the job?

[Thermal]

Who would want the job, and more importantly, who could do the job?

Sasaki wants the job

Sasaki could do the job

But I wouldn't want to be lead solely by one person.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Nice of you to show up by the way :dozey:

Wah. Whine. Suspicion. Meh.

Vote me next round if you don't like it.

I'm offering comment when I think it's appropriate, not every other post.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Who would want the job, and more importantly, who could do the job?

What's wrong, John? This post is nothing more than a big fat "NOT ME".

Why does the town always go to the same well for leaders? Sasaki, Pizza. Pizza, Sasaki. TinCow. Pizza. Sasaki.

I think it's very interesting that some people seem to be allergic to volunteering.

[TinCow]

Why are you people still wasting your energy discussing a system that has absolutely no possibility of ever working?

[Askthepizzaguy]

which system

[a completely inoffensive name]

Why does the town always go to the same well for leaders? Sasaki, Pizza. Pizza, Sasaki. TinCow. Pizza. Sasaki.

I think it's very interesting that some people seem to be allergic to volunteering.

I guess people have stopped reading my posts...

[Beefy187]

Missed the action getting random result bit.
Now I'm against leader election.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I guess people have stopped reading my posts...

I went back and re-read it and I apologize for forgetting.

Whoever you want to die next phase is all right with me.

[a completely inoffensive name]

I went back and re-read it and I apologize for forgetting.

Whoever you want to die next phase is all right with me.

I will remember this.

[Csargo]

:juggle2:

I can do that as well :clown: see? Oh :daisy:

[Diamondeye]

I don't understand. Beskar is a townie. Why are people trying to get rid of him?

Same sentiments here...


This is what I said, basically, right after Kagemusha died.

Kage thinks mafia had to be on the bandwagon against him. Sadly, it is usually town behind that kind of silliness. It's why I recommended we get a leader to prevent this kind of headless chickenry.

Yeah true, I know too well that if you're about to die you start seeing enemies everywhere (cf. NOTW 30?), so I don't really think we should listen to Kage's baseless accusations.


What's wrong, John? This post is nothing more than a big fat "NOT ME".

Why does the town always go to the same well for leaders? Sasaki, Pizza. Pizza, Sasaki. TinCow. Pizza. Sasaki.

I think it's very interesting that some people seem to be allergic to volunteering.

Agreed. Obviously I don't feel like volounteering since last time I did so everything went failure and then the town killed me - their leader! - because they didn't trust me (again, cf. NOTW 30). Also, mock exams and driver's license means busy little me :(

I do find John's reply to be suspicious though. Or just very non-commital.

[Beefy187]

Agreed. Obviously I don't feel like volounteering since last time I did so everything went failure and then the town killed me - their leader! - because they didn't trust me (again, cf. NOTW 30).


Set me on ignore, and you might get it right this time :yes:

[Winston Hughes]

Set me on ignore, and you might get it right this time :yes:

Arrghh! It's Beefy and I think he's about to start WIFOMing again!!

*frantically searches for ignore button*

[Askthepizzaguy]

I trusted you Diamondeye. I stood by you through every single round, mostly, and I defended you until you died. I took a lot of heat for it, too.

Obviously since I was defending you, we were both mafia. Since I mention it now, we must also both be mafia. We're such predictable scum. Let's both bandwagon the same people half of the time, too, it's a classic scumtell.

[Subotan]

Sasaki wants the job

Sasaki could do the job

But I wouldn't want to be lead solely by one person.
If there was going to be a leader (Which is a dumb idea), there would need to be a mechanism for removing him, and preferably one that ended with his death.

[pevergreen]

Egads, perhaps some sort of death clock!lynch.

[Winston Hughes]

I trusted you Diamondeye. I stood by you through every single round, mostly, and I defended you until you died. I took a lot of heat for it, too.

That's the thing about being leader, though: it means you will be held responsible for catching the mafia. And if you don't manage to do that in a timely fashion, then you're going to end up under a lot of pressure.

Just look at the amount of scepticism I've faced in the Lord of the Rings game, where we've been pretty successful in catching the badguys. Had we spent each day lynching townies, I'm sure that talk of my being corrupted by the ring would've reached a fever pitch in no time.

To put it another way, mafia can be a very political game. And, as in other kinds of politics, a successful leader must contend with the democratic instinct, which always looks to knock down those who raise themselves above the mob. If there is no stick with which to beat the jealous masses into order, the leader must provide continual reassurance that the plebs are better off with him in charge, or else rebellion is sure to follow.

I'm sure that this is a major reason why more people don't put themselves forward for a leadership role. It can be a heck of a lot of work, and, if you make any mistakes, you can expect a relentless stream of criticism. So, unless you're very confident of your abilities, and you're happy to work under public pressure, it's not really an attractive proposition.

[johnhughthom]

What's wrong, John? This post is nothing more than a big fat "NOT ME".

Darn right it is. Not that anybody would have put me forward...


Why does the town always go to the same well for leaders? Sasaki, Pizza. Pizza, Sasaki. TinCow. Pizza. Sasaki.

Nobody else is daft enough to do it?


I do find John's reply to be suspicious though. Or just very non-commital.

Suspicous how?

[Beskar]

I hope John, Thermal and Secura all got their mothers her Mothers Day card.


[PS. I dare some one to send Secura one]

[johnhughthom]

Nah, I never bother with cards. She got a ludicrously big box of chocolates.

[Secura]

I hope John, Thermal and Secura all got their mothers her Mothers Day card.

Yush, off to give her a card and flowers in an hour or so.

Did you pass on my message to your mother? :P

[Captain Blackadder]

What is all this talk of mothers day it is a mounth away?

[naut]

The UK celebrates it in March, on a Sunday, as "Mothering Sunday". I remember everyone would give their mothers daffodils for it.

[Beskar]

Yeah, it always has been on the Sunday after my birthday. Not our fault the Americans have it at weird-date.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Hey! I seem to remember there are some scumbags running around trying to kill us, and we're talking about bleepin' Mother's day???

Also, everyone besides ACIN are a bunch of lame wads for not volunteering to be the leader. I hope he asks to kill you first, generic-person-I'm-speaking-to.

[Joooray]

Yeah, it always has been on the Sunday after my birthday. Not our fault the Americans have it at weird-date.

YOU have a weird day, Mother's day is clearly only in May, as it is supposed to be.


Hey! I seem to remember there are some scumbags running around trying to kill us, and we're talking about bleepin' Mother's day???

So, you don't love your mother, eh? :no:


Also, everyone besides ACIN are a bunch of lame wads for not volunteering to be the leader. I hope he asks to kill you first, generic-person-I'm-speaking-to.

I don't like that leader business, at least not in a game which isn't designed for it. First we can never be sure that we are not electing a mafia for the job, second in a game with recruitment, I'm sure that leader would be the highly likely to be recruited by the mafia. :shrug:

[Askthepizzaguy]

Hmm forum just had big error... let's try again.

The theory behind the "leader" that I proposed, is that only a townie gets to be the leader, or a really, really dumb mafia.
This is because dear leader knows going into the job that he's scheduled to be vigilante killed in a couple/few phases.
So, dear leader tries to catch a mafia, knowing full well that his life depends on it.
If the mafia tries to recruit him, it's as simple as wasting their conversions.

[a completely inoffensive name]

I don't like that leader business, at least not in a game which isn't designed for it. First we can never be sure that we are not electing a mafia for the job, second in a game with recruitment, I'm sure that leader would be the highly likely to be recruited by the mafia. :shrug:

Wait, so you can pick me as leader and then the mafia could recruit me?
Well, I'm a free market kind of guy so lets handle this like Ebay, one guy from the various mafias and one guy from the town shall publicly bid for my allegiance. Bidding starts right now and ends when I feel like I cant get anymore from either side. Go.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I like this idea.

I bid that I'll offer you protection for 3 nights, to be potentially extended if you catch a mafioso.

Now, let's have the mafia please make a public bid.

[Beskar]

I will not offer to kill you for three nights, ACIN.

[Crazed Rabbit]

12 hours left for orders!

CR

[Kagemusha]

This is what I said, basically, right after Kagemusha died.

Kage thinks mafia had to be on the bandwagon against him. Sadly, it is usually town behind that kind of silliness. It's why I recommended we get a leader to prevent this kind of headless chickenry.

My reasoning is that there are several types of mafia players. When playing scum, some try to avoid spotlight and take an easy aproach like the one you mentioned in your post. But then there are other kind of players, more ambitious ones. Some mafia players set their goal as scum to take control of the situation and stay in spotlight manipulating the town. When i look at Sasaki, he is clearly from the second group. What makes it odd is that he accused several people, but when a bandwagon for me showed up he jumped right in without any hesitation, nor any arguments what so ever turned his head around. So to me that shows he was actually only concerned about a lynch would happen, thus one less opponent to fight, now was i the prefferred option to lynch him. I would say thats irrelevant. One other thing is that after i was lunched Sasaki has completely silenced about why he joined the wagon and in general avoids the suspect all together. The reason for this? Maybe because he has reasons to try and protect his life, thus scummy. Soi must draw the conclusion that Sasaki is guilty. And playing a game that he will most like ly loose because of too much ambition.

Also to Beskar , Secura and Co. I thought tthis was game of mafia and not game of "friends". During the early days when i was really active i think ive killed, deceaved, lynched and lied to quite the few people i consider friends amongst the people playing this game and some others also. So if your game behaviour is based in who is your friend and who not, you should think again how wise is that and also how good is that for the game.:dizzy2:

[Beskar]

I thought tthis was game of mafia and not game of "friends".

We never did, stop twisting it. Secura said that they thought I was a townie, not a mafia, while you was an unknown element. So you were obviously the better choice to die.

[Kagemusha]

We never did, stop twisting it. Secura said that they thought I was a townie, not a mafia, while you was an unknown element. So you were obviously the better choice to die.

"Secura said that they thought I was a townie"

Who they? Your little alliance with common goal?

[Askthepizzaguy]

My reasoning is that there are several types of mafia players. When playing scum, some try to avoid spotlight and take an easy aproach like the one you mentioned in your post. But then there are other kind of players, more ambitious ones. Some mafia players set their goal as scum to take control of the situation and stay in spotlight manipulating the town. When i look at Sasaki, he is clearly from the second group. What makes it odd is that he accused several people, but when a bandwagon for me showed up he jumped right in without any hesitation, nor any arguments what so ever turned his head around. So to me that shows he was actually only concerned about a lynch would happen, thus one less opponent to fight, now was i the prefferred option to lynch him. I would say thats irrelevant. One other thing is that after i was lunched Sasaki has completely silenced about why he joined the wagon and in general avoids the suspect all together. The reason for this? Maybe because he has reasons to try and protect his life, thus scummy. Soi must draw the conclusion that Sasaki is guilty. And playing a game that he will most like ly loose because of too much ambition.

Also to Beskar , Secura and Co. I thought tthis was game of mafia and not game of "friends". During the early days when i was really active i think ive killed, deceaved, lynched and lied to quite the few people i consider friends amongst the people playing this game and some others also. So if your game behaviour is based in who is your friend and who not, you should think again how wise is that and also how good is that for the game.:dizzy2:

Fair enough. Sasaki is your suspect. We'll see how that turns out.

I honestly don't picture Sasaki as being that bad at this game. But sometimes the straightfoward strategy works because it's such a terrible strategy, and therefore people like me don't suspect Sasaki would use it.

Still, skeptical.

[Sigurd]

We never did, stop twisting it. Secura said that they thought I was a townie, not a mafia, while you was an unknown element. So you were obviously the better choice to die.
No she said she "knew" you were innocent. That is significantly different from "thinking" or "believing". Which means she knows your role. Or was it the "you can't lie to her" thing?
And Kage is quite the afterlife poster... Me thinks he had an important role.

[Kagemusha]

Fair enough. Sasaki is your suspect. We'll see how that turns out.

I honestly don't picture Sasaki as being that bad at this game. But sometimes the straightfoward strategy works because it's such a terrible strategy, and therefore people like me don't suspect Sasaki would use it.

Still, skeptical.

Thats the point of that approach. I never said Sasaki is bad at this game. More like resourcefull and able to adapt. In this current enviroment, when leader figures like for example you, Sasaki or Tincow are wanted by the crowd to win the game for them, it wouldnt be a strategy half bad.

[Secura]

Also to Beskar , Secura and Co. I thought tthis was game of mafia and not game of "friends".

It's however I choose to play it. If I suspect that Beskie may have been converted and is no longer aligned with the town, I would have no hesistancy in voting for him. But then, with all this pressure and suspicion on him, why would anyone waste time converting him anyway, particularly if Beskie is right and he is going to be vig-killed overnight?


We never did, stop twisting it. Secura said that they thought I was a townie, not a mafia, while you was an unknown element. So you were obviously the better choice to die.

As I have explained, it was not solely about him being a friend, it was based upon the fact that I know he is town and that I had figured out what his goal was with the atheotes claim; you, on the other hand, I do not know from Adam. You had appeared somewhat scummy, there was nothing to really go on aside of that, so I voted.

I would prefer not to have to repeat that again.


Who they? Your little alliance with common goal?

"They" means me, he just didn't refer to me in the correct manner. It's mere semantics, swings and roundabouts... Beskie's hardly a Professor of English, so keep your hair on.

You're dead, stop whinging about it and move on, please. It isn't like I was the sole person to vote for you.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

No she said she "knew" you were innocent. That is significantly different from "thinking" or "believing". Which means she knows your role. Or was it the "you can't lie to her" thing?
And Kage is quite the afterlife poster... Me thinks he had an important role.

I think he wants revenge :D

[Beskar]

"Secura said that they thought I was a townie"

Who they? Your little alliance with common goal?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they


Also, even if Secura didn't vote, you would have died anyway. So it is not like it makes a difference.

[TinCow]

In this current enviroment, when leader figures like for example you, Sasaki or Tincow are wanted by the crowd to win the game for them, it wouldnt be a strategy half bad.

I don't know why I keep getting mentioned in these types of posts. I have an exceptionally poor track record for catching mafioso.

[Kagemusha]

It's however I choose to play it. If I suspect that Beskie may have been converted and is no longer aligned with the town, I would have no hesistancy in voting for him. But then, with all this pressure and suspicion on him, why would anyone waste time converting him anyway, particularly if Beskie is right and he is going to be vig-killed overnight?



As I have explained, it was not solely about him being a friend, it was based upon the fact that I know he is town and that I had figured out what his goal was with the atheotes claim; you, on the other hand, I do not know from Adam. You had appeared somewhat scummy, there was nothing to really go on aside of that, so I voted.

I would prefer not to have to repeat that again.



"They" means me, he just didn't refer to me in the correct manner. It's mere semantics, swings and roundabouts... Beskie's hardly a Professor of English, so keep your hair on.

You're dead, stop whinging about it and move on, please. It isn't like I was the sole person to vote for you.

Well thats quite the error even to ear of non native English speaker like me, id say more like a slip up. About your last comment Im not whining im playing mafia. Do you expect that i should stop posting if im dead? Il keep coming after anyone i find suspicious right untill this game ends. So no im not moving on. Also why you take my last post to Beskar personally as if i aimed it to you? Cant i put pressure on your friend?:confused:

[Ibn-Khaldun]

My reasoning is that there are several types of mafia players. When playing scum, some try to avoid spotlight and take an easy aproach like the one you mentioned in your post. But then there are other kind of players, more ambitious ones. Some mafia players set their goal as scum to take control of the situation and stay in spotlight manipulating the town. When i look at Sasaki, he is clearly from the second group. What makes it odd is that he accused several people, but when a bandwagon for me showed up he jumped right in without any hesitation, nor any arguments what so ever turned his head around. So to me that shows he was actually only concerned about a lynch would happen, thus one less opponent to fight, now was i the prefferred option to lynch him. I would say thats irrelevant. One other thing is that after i was lunched Sasaki has completely silenced about why he joined the wagon and in general avoids the suspect all together. The reason for this? Maybe because he has reasons to try and protect his life, thus scummy. Soi must draw the conclusion that Sasaki is guilty. And playing a game that he will most like ly loose because of too much ambition.

Also to Beskar , Secura and Co. I thought tthis was game of mafia and not game of "friends". During the early days when i was really active i think ive killed, deceaved, lynched and lied to quite the few people i consider friends amongst the people playing this game and some others also. So if your game behaviour is based in who is your friend and who not, you should think again how wise is that and also how good is that for the game.:dizzy2:

Everyone in here have a reason to protect his/hers life. No matter what role he/her have. Townies want to protect themselves because they are innocent while mafia want to protect themselves because they are .. well .. mafia. So, that reason is not that convincing.

[Secura]

Well thats quite the error even to ear of non native English speaker like me, id say more like a slip up.

A slip-up in what way?


Also why you take my last post to Beskar personally as if i aimed it to you?

I wasn't taking this personally; you said "who's they?" as if Beskar was talking in a plural sense, when he was actually talking in the singular sense. I was merely correcting your mistake.


Cant i put pressure on your friend?

Go for it, treacle... you're barking up the wrong tree, but feel free. :3


Which means she knows your role. Or was it the "you can't lie to her" thing?

He has simply told me who he is, and vice versa. There hasn't been any PM-sending or the like if that's what you're insinuating. While it is possible that he may be lying, I'd be able to ascertain as such knowing him for as long as I have, and vice versa.

And if it came down to Beskar actually being mafia in any game, then unfortunately for him my duty as town would come first, and he would say the same in reverse. We can still be competitive, just as we can be cooperative. :S

[Kagemusha]

Everyone in here have a reason to protect his/hers life. No matter what role he/her have. Townies want to protect themselves because they are innocent while mafia want to protect themselves because they are .. well .. mafia. So, that reason is not that convincing.

Sasakis reasoning to lynch me was that i was too eager to defend myself. So you are saying that his argument was a false one?

[Askthepizzaguy]

I don't know why I keep getting mentioned in these types of posts. I have an exceptionally poor track record for catching mafioso.

I think you beat my bottom red in Khaan's latest game. I am ashamed. You certainly did a good job there methinks.

Don't have to win the game to be one of the more valuable players.

[Kagemusha]

A slip-up in what way? People have been lynched from far less, then confusing they with him /her. Some might think he was talking about multiple people while mentioning only you. Or is that somehow far fetched?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Thats the point of that approach. I never said Sasaki is bad at this game. More like resourcefull and able to adapt. In this current enviroment, when leader figures like for example you, Sasaki or Tincow are wanted by the crowd to win the game for them, it wouldnt be a strategy half bad.

Meh. I demand results.

The crowd would have skinned me alive in Capo if I had stopped delivering. I think it's fair to expect that of any such leader here. So if a mafia wants to destroy his own teammates and then himself, I welcome it. If he wants to get a couple of free lynches and then die, I think that's also a good trade.

I don't see how this strategy is bad. Maybe it's just because it makes sense in my head, where nothing makes sense to anyone else.

[Kagemusha]

Meh. I demand results.

The crowd would have skinned me alive in Capo if I had stopped delivering. I think it's fair to expect that of any such leader here. So if a mafia wants to destroy his own teammates and then himself, I welcome it. If he wants to get a couple of free lynches and then die, I think that's also a good trade.

I don't see how this strategy is bad. Maybe it's just because it makes sense in my head, where nothing makes sense to anyone else.

Well usually mafia are not alone. So in a hypothetical situation one might take the spotlight for quite a while without being seen anyway not delivering. Meanwhile the other scums would be taking another aproach. Smoke and mirrors thats all it is. Ofcourse i might be wrong, but if there would be only one way to be successful as scum it would take quite a bit from the game wouldnt you agree?

[Secura]

Or is that somehow far fetched?

No, it isn't at all, particularly to someone such as yourself for whom English is not their native tongue.

Not everyone here is British or American, after all. :3

[Kagemusha]

No, it isn't at all, particularly to someone such as yourself for whom English is not their native tongue.

Not everyone here is British or American, after all. :3

Yep and thats why i brought it up. :)

[Askthepizzaguy]

Well usually mafia are not alone. So in a hypothetical situation one might take the spotlight for quite a while without being seen anyway not delivering. Meanwhile the other scums would be taking another aproach. Smoke and mirrors thats all it is. Ofcourse i might be wrong, but if there would be only one way to be successful as scum it would take quite a bit from the game wouldnt you agree?

Like I said, maybe it only makes sense to me.

I beg your indulgence as I explain my idea, which will probably be rejected out of hand anyway-

I don't think we will get all that much from investigation results. Relying on them is meaningless, for the most part. I'll consider the information, but it's not conclusive.

Next, I don't think we would be wise to form pro-town groups. That's really frickin dumb in a game like this where people can be converted, especially against their will unlike Capo. Anyone who tries that nonsense will be blamed when the town loses epicly.

So, investigations misleading, groups dangerous. What do we have left? Vigilante squads hitting random people and defensive groups. But the defensive groups won't work most of the time. Any mafia inside the group, and the mafia simply won't attack. And why attack when you can investigate and convert? Pointless as all heck. No, your best option is rampant, blind, bloodthirsty vigilante groups just like Pirate Ship. Slaughter everyone and anyone. It will be fun, and it won't give the mafia time to investigate and recruit. With any luck we will take a huge chunk out of them. And if people are all "well I dunno if that guy is such a good target" then I'd probably kill that person and the one he doesn't think should die.

As for the lynch, I'd prefer the lynches be directed by a townie instead of a mafia scum. If it's known going into it that any leadership position leads to a cruel and insensitive death just a few short days from then, what mafia would volunteer? Only the stupid ones. I trust that tactic. I also trust rampant blind vigilantism. Go hog wild.

That's how I'd approach this game. That's how I think we should approach this game. But don't mind me, I've never done this before.... several times.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Conversion isn't like that in this game. It's a hybrid between capo and pirate ship:


This game also features conversion, a hybrid between Capo and Pirate Ship mafia. Only certain townspeople are susceptible to conversion. The mafia can investigate people to find out who. They can then give a note (written by them, delivered by me) enticing the townie to join their cause.

Mafia would possibly volunteer for the leadership, knowing they could knock off 8 or so townies for 1 mafioso.

[Kagemusha]

Like I said, maybe it only makes sense to me.

I beg your indulgence as I explain my idea, which will probably be rejected out of hand anyway-

I don't think we will get all that much from investigation results. Relying on them is meaningless, for the most part. I'll consider the information, but it's not conclusive.

Next, I don't think we would be wise to form pro-town groups. That's really frickin dumb in a game like this where people can be converted, especially against their will unlike Capo. Anyone who tries that nonsense will be blamed when the town loses epicly.

So, investigations misleading, groups dangerous. What do we have left? Vigilante squads hitting random people and defensive groups. But the defensive groups won't work most of the time. Any mafia inside the group, and the mafia simply won't attack. And why attack when you can investigate and convert? Pointless as all heck. No, your best option is rampant, blind, bloodthirsty vigilante groups just like Pirate Ship. Slaughter everyone and anyone. It will be fun, and it won't give the mafia time to investigate and recruit. With any luck we will take a huge chunk out of them. And if people are all "well I dunno if that guy is such a good target" then I'd probably kill that person and the one he doesn't think should die.

As for the lynch, I'd prefer the lynches be directed by a townie instead of a mafia scum. If it's known going into it that any leadership position leads to a cruel and insensitive death just a few short days from then, what mafia would volunteer? Only the stupid ones. I trust that tactic. I also trust rampant blind vigilantism. Go hog wild.

That's how I'd approach this game. That's how I think we should approach this game. But don't mind me, I've never done this before.... several times.

In matter of fact i agree. If the mafia numbers are to arise from recruiting. The only way to win for the town is to strike the recruiting pool of mafia, thus killing possible candidates. Even with that strategy the chances for town victory might be slim. Although in this scenario how big part of the population mafia can recruit. If all, the only way to win is to start a vigilante killing frenzy. Though in that situation mafia might join the frenzy when their numbers are high enough.If they survive the vigilantes in the first place.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Conversion isn't like that in this game. It's a hybrid between capo and pirate ship:

In that case the situation isn't as dire. Just nearly as dire. Not many I know of would turn it down.

Oh... except me of course... *whistles innocently*


Mafia would possibly volunteer for the leadership, knowing they could knock off 8 or so townies for 1 mafioso.

I don't see how they could... maybe I see the plan differently or you know something I don't.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

In that case the situation isn't as dire. Just nearly as dire. Not many I know of would turn it down.

Oh... except me of course... *whistles innocently*

I would turn it down...although I'm pretty sure I'm not susceptible in this game anyway. Would have turned it down in pirate ship if I could, lol. I'm one of the few who really enjoys being a townie, that's how it feels sometimes anyway.


I don't see how they could... maybe I see the plan differently or you know something I don't.

Well, if they are directing lynches, and maybe vig kills at night, plus their own kills. Then they get to off 3+ townies a day for each day they have a leader.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I would turn it down...although I'm pretty sure I'm not susceptible in this game anyway. Would have turned it down in pirate ship if I could, lol. I'm one of the few who really enjoys being a townie, that's how it feels sometimes anyway.

:inquisitive: Now why don't I believe one word of that....


Well, if they are directing lynches, and maybe vig kills at night, plus their own kills. Then they get to off 3+ townies a day for each day they have a leader.

I wouldn't put all our eggs in one basket like that. They aren't protecting town secrets, so it's not necessary to have them controlling everything, just an honest lynch or two. I'd let the vigilante groups silently kill whoever they wished. No central authority over that. Less able to be manipulated by mafia that way.

In other news:

I volunteer Splitpersonality to be the very next person we kill. One post all game besides the sign-up, and it is an abstain. What's wrong, Charlie Brown? Did Lucy move the football again? You know it breaks my heart to even utter these words: you've gotta die.

[Crazed Rabbit]

IMPORTANT NOTE:

You MUST list your partners for night actions, even if I know who you would probably be acting with anyway.

Failure to do so will result in the actions failing.

I am going to be merciless about this!

Thanks,
CR

[Sasaki Kojiro]

:inquisitive: Now why don't I believe one word of that....

Some part of me enjoys telling truths that I know no one will believe :laugh4:




I wouldn't put all our eggs in one basket like that. They aren't protecting town secrets, so it's not necessary to have them controlling everything, just an honest lynch or two. I'd let the vigilante groups silently kill whoever they wished. No central authority over that. Less able to be manipulated by mafia that way.


Still. If the mafia have two kills, and we give the guy three days, that's a bunch of townies for one mafioso. Lynches are precious.

There is a form of mafia where instead of voting you select someone, and they decide the lynch on their own. Kingmaker I think they call it.

[Secura]

I volunteer Splitpersonality to be the very next person we kill. One post all game besides the sign-up, and it is an abstain. What's wrong, Charlie Brown? Did Lucy move the football again? You know it breaks my heart to even utter these words: you've gotta die.

Just to let you know, Peasant Phill has been trying to get in touch with Split regarding a non-mafia game, both via PM and Visitor Message, and hasn't recieved a response whatsoever. Has he just vanished entirely? :<

EDIT: Just noticed he posted on his own game a few hours ago, my bad. :3

[Methos]

I'm back, though definitely not caught up. Wow, eleven pages since I've been gone!!! :dizzy2:

[Splitpersonality]

I'd like to apologize for my inactivity, tennis season has started and it's my first year so I'm sort of surprised with how tired it's got me.

I could ramble on with a list of excuses for some time now, but those who're in my game can see that I'm not exactly someone who's very on time lately. I will make a marked effort to increase my productivity however, especially in this game, since I'm such a very important....regular townie.


In response to my vote, I was unsure of who to vote for, nothing more, nothing less. As an aside, first round abstains are not unusual for me if you look at my record, I'm just usally a lot more talkative.


I was going to jokingly nominate myself for the townie controller back a page or so ago when I saw ATPG mention it, but in retrospect that would've painted me as being even more guilty, judging by the thread logic that "If you want to lead the town, you must be ATPG and/or mafia". This doesn't make sense to me, sure it's an increased workload and a bit of a way to say "Hey, come kill me mafia!" but any good townie should be willing to sacrifice themself for a prospective win, no?

But then if you consider the recruitment possibilities of this game, keeping information of pro-town roles contained might be a good idea...


In conclusion, lynch me if you want though I'd prefer you didn't waste it on a normal townie.

[TinCow]

although I'm pretty sure I'm not susceptible in this game anyway.

Care to elaborate on this point?

[Kagemusha]

Care to elaborate on this point?

Like he would. He is just stating that he is innocent as if it were some general truth.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Like he would. He is just stating that he is innocent as if it were some general truth.

I can feel your anger. Go on...strike at me and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!

[Splitpersonality]

I can feel your anger. Go on...strike at me and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!

Are you watching the Star Wars movie marathon on Spike TV too?

:clown:

[Kagemusha]

I can feel your anger. Go on...strike at me and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!

Nope no anger. Just commenting your behaviour old friend.:tongue3:

[Captain Blackadder]

No, it isn't at all, particularly to someone such as yourself for whom English is not their native tongue.

Not everyone here is British or American, after all. :3

Yes some of us are Australian :3

[Centurion1]

everyone i now know whats going on. pizza will eventually support some candidate he will then control this person behind the scenes.

we all know you cant seriously avoid taking power pizza your a cyber meglomaniac.

[Secura]

Yes some of us are Australian :3

Touche. :P

[Thermal]

Busy day, will talk properly tomorrow...


I hope John, Thermal and Secura all got their mothers her Mothers Day card.


[PS. I dare some one to send Secura one]

I got her skin oil spray scrub thingys :yes:


If we were to go for the flawed election system I would happily be leader (along with most people?), but It would obviously be Sasaki, Tincow, ATPG, maybe GH who would get the position because they are respected figures, people will generally just vote in that way so its pointless volunteering. :tongue:

[GeneralHankerchief]

If we were to go for the flawed election system I would happily be leader (along with most people?), but It would obviously be Sasaki, Tincow, ATPG, maybe GH who would get the position because they are respected figures, people will generally just vote in that way so its pointless volunteering. :tongue:

If we actually do decide to go down this route, consider this my Sherman Statement.

[Renata]

I hereby volunteer to be leader. I'm so irritated right at the moment that being lynched for surety's sake in a couple of days seems a fine idea.

[johnhughthom]

I'm so irritated right at the momen.

Ohh, do tell. Is there a particular reason or just general town ineptness?

[Renata]

90% nothing to do with this game. 10% the fact that for the second night in a row I have nothing to do, and not for lack of trying.

[White_eyes:D]

So.....CCrunner or ATPG have not contacted you to help form a Pro-town group?:inquisitive:

That's like Beskar not acting suspicious...:bounce:

[Double A]

Ok I know I haven't been as active in this game as I'd like (as I've said at least 3 times, mostly on CFC, laptop was in hiding, and desktop had the ATI 2010 XP Security virus thing), but can someone tell me why TM is posting in red?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Ok I know I haven't been as active in this game as I'd like (as I've said at least 3 times, mostly on CFC, laptop was in hiding, and desktop had the ATI 2010 XP Security virus thing), but can someone tell me why TM is posting in red?

I can vouch for Double A saying this before. In the departed dethy game. Where he was mafia.

[johnhughthom]

If you ever get the urge to vouch for me Sasaki, please don't.

[Double A]

I can vouch for Double A saying this before. In the departed dethy game. Where he was mafia.

Notice me not posting on TWC, CFC, or the org for over a day.

[johnhughthom]

Notice me not posting on TWC, CFC, or the org for over a day.

To be fair in the Dethy game I did check his TWC activity, and he was inactive for the period of time he claimed porn had taken over his PC.

[Reenk Roink]

Who wants to join me in a vig hit on Secura?

[Askthepizzaguy]

everyone i now know whats going on. pizza will eventually support some candidate he will then control this person behind the scenes.

we all know you cant seriously avoid taking power pizza your a cyber meglomaniac.

Well if that's the case, obviously I've arranged defenses for myself.

Why don't you and several friends try to take me out. See what happens.

When I end up dead, I'll accept your profound apologies.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Who wants to join me in a vig hit on Secura?

You just guaranteed a prot group on her :p

[Reenk Roink]

You just guaranteed a prot group on her :p

Nah, I doubt anyone will protect her. Besides, our group was stifling. This sucks. :sad:

[a completely inoffensive name]

Yes some of us are Australian :3

I'm so sorry. How fast does the org load through your government censorship firewall?

[pevergreen]

I'm so sorry. How fast does the org load through your government censorship firewall?

The one that thankfully is not up yet?

[Crazed Rabbit]

Orders closed.

CR

[Diamondeye]

I trusted you Diamondeye. I stood by you through every single round, mostly, and I defended you until you died. I took a lot of heat for it, too.

Obviously since I was defending you, we were both mafia. Since I mention it now, we must also both be mafia. We're such predictable scum. Let's both bandwagon the same people half of the time, too, it's a classic scumtell.

Sure... Still Spl1t or have you decided on another target? :beam:


Suspicous how?

I just found it suspicious/non-commital that you so clearly stated that you were not interested in it - without, as you said, anyone asking you in particular.


I hope John, Thermal and Secura all got their mothers her Mothers Day card.
[PS. I dare some one to send Secura one]

I don't have her address. Will a PM do? And what do I get if I dare?



So, you don't love your mother, eh? :no:

I am reading Freud right now. I think it's time to hand out Hannibal Lectures to anyone who acts suspicious :3


No she said she "knew" you were innocent. That is significantly different from "thinking" or "believing". Which means she knows your role. Or was it the "you can't lie to her" thing?
And Kage is quite the afterlife poster... Me thinks he had an important role.

I'd just like to point out that even though I don't even know Renata from anywhere but these kind of forums and have never met her in real life, I have a very hard time hiding things from her in these games ((and I believe this to be true the other way around as well - at least most of the times. When we have important roles that require concealment [such as Renata's role in YLC's game], we tend not to talk much at all)) - so I find it perfectly understandable that Secura and Beskar would be fast in making contact and eventually exchange role info.


Well thats quite the error even to ear of non native English speaker like me, id say more like a slip up. About your last comment Im not whining im playing mafia. Do you expect that i should stop posting if im dead? Il keep coming after anyone i find suspicious right untill this game ends. So no im not moving on. Also why you take my last post to Beskar personally as if i aimed it to you? Cant i put pressure on your friend?:confused:

That's all very good - and I'm not asking you to stop posting, but you're getting nowhere with pointing everything at Sasaki. Everyone would be bitter to be a first day lynch, but you must realize that even if you're convinced that you have factual evidence against Sasaki (which I doubt), you'd be biased - and everyone would think you're biased. Pressing the point only weakens the weight of your words to the town.

[Kagemusha]

That's all very good - and I'm not asking you to stop posting, but you're getting nowhere with pointing everything at Sasaki. Everyone would be bitter to be a first day lynch, but you must realize that even if you're convinced that you have factual evidence against Sasaki (which I doubt), you'd be biased - and everyone would think you're biased. Pressing the point only weakens the weight of your words to the town.

And why would i need lectures from you? First you want to lynch me without factual evidence based on your wish to "pressure" me and then you want to start helping me out with credibility issues? How very helpful of you. Helpfull for yourself. It is quite illogical for you to try and help me out with credibility issues towards the town now that im dead. Shouldnt your opinion about me be that i was rightfull lynch, thus my posts should only harm the town? Or did you think at any point really that i was guilty? Quite strange, unless you knew all along that you were lynching a townie.

[Crazed Rabbit]

The Shadow Fort


https://img196.imageshack.us/img196/5475/night2o.jpg


The pale orb of the moon, surrounded by stars, illuminated the fort. Last night the people had been fortunate; no one had died. Tonight would be different.

Cultured Drizzt fan was walking from the lynching of Kagemusha back to his room in the tavern. He seemed to be among a crowd of people, but as he made his way among the handful of buildings, he found himself alone going down an alley. The background noise of conversation had gone, and now he was alone, with only the soft crunch of his feet in the snow.

As he neared the end of the alley, he heard movement. He paused, and moved his hand to his sword hilt as two men turned the corner and faced him.

“There he is!” cried one as the other yelled, “Kill him!”

CDF decided not to hang around and make small talk. He turned and ran back the way he came, drawing his sword. As he neared the other end of the alley another man emerged from around that corner, sword held high. CDF skidded to a halt, and turned to a small wall running between two buildings. Spurred on by desperation, he leaped to the top and hauled himself over. Landing in a heap on the other side, he thanked God there was no one waiting to stab him as he got up.

The three attackers quickly clambered over the wall, but CDF was already too far to catch up with and running fast. They muttered to each other for a while before stomping off.

Seamus Fermanagh was walking nearby. He turned to leave, not wanting to be the next target, when he thought he heard someone behind him. He stopped and turned, but could hear nothing more. He peered into the shadows the moonlight could not reach and saw only darkness. After a minute of this, he continued walking.

Not 30 seconds had passed before he thought he heard more footsteps behind him. He turned quickly, reaching for his sword.

From the darkness a figure ran and leaped onto Seamus. He was cloaked and let out a loud hoarse yell as he brought Seamus to the ground. Such was his speed that Seamus had not drawn his sword.

Seamus gave up on the sword and tried to wrestle the foul smelling man off of him. But the man quickly tore his arms free of Seamus’s grasp and began ferociously stabbing him. Bleeding from a dozen spots in a few seconds, Seamus could not struggle anymore.

His body was found covered in his own blood the next morning.

Later, Chaotix was returning to his room from the tavern. Drinks hadn’t been cheap, but he had some coins to spare. He walked across the snow in a pleasant mood. He became decidedly less pleasant as he saw a man holding a large sword step out from around a corner of the nearest building.
Chaotix stopped, and then drew his own sword as the man advanced. He thought about demanding to know who the man was, but figured that man was not likely to answer.

His attacker raised his sword and took precise steps. Chaotix readied his own sword in a defensive stance. The attacked got within several paces, then lunged with a diagonal strike. Chaotix flung his arm up to defend himself, but the attacker had changed the angle of his attack mid swing, and the blade came at Chaotix horizontally and struck him in the shoulder, rendering his left arm useless.

Chaotix cried out in pain and tried to swing at the attacker. But his assailant had already moved and swung again, this time cutting Chaotix diagonally across the chest. The wounded Chaotix dropped his sword and tried to back away, but another swing gashed his neck. He fell to the ground, and his attacked stabbed him in the chest before quickly running off.

In a different part of the fort, another person was making their way back home. Yaropolk had thought he was alone. As he approached the small thatched building with his room, he heard a single metallic clink behind him. Instinctively, he ducked and dove past the corner ahead. A crossbow bolt lodged itself in the wood behind the space formerly occupied by his head.

Yaropolk jumped to his feet, scanning for the other attacker, hoping another bolt would not strike home while he was unable to dodge. Luckily for him, no more bolts flew at him. He drew his long sword and quickly glanced around the corner.

His would be killer had dropped the crossbow and drawn a sword and was presently running towards him. He raised his own sword and stepped around the corner, bringing it down in a powerful cut. The attacked halted and deflected the blow in the nick of time with his sword. Undeterred, Yaropolk quickly attacked again from a different angle. But the attacker parried that as well, and managed a quick thrust at Yaropolk. Though surprised, he deflected that blow and raised his sword to attack again.

By this time the attacker had scanned the area, and seeing no help coming, had decided to retreat. Yaropolk moved to follow, but his attacker was too quick and escaped into the darkness.

With a sigh, Yaropolk lowered his sword, but decided to keep it unsheathed. This was wise. He opened the door, greeted a few people in the common area, and went towards his room, ignoring the stares.

As he opened his door a man leaped out and swung a sword at his face. Yaropolk stumbled backwards, blocking strike after strike. He was being forced back to the end of the hallway; his long sword was less effective indoors.

As his attacker brought his sword around in a blur to attack again, he saw his chance and swung quickly upwards. The blow landed, the attacker grimaced and his sword faltered. Yaropolk piled on the blows now, sensing victory. First he cut quickly from the side, then brought his sword down in a great slicing swing across the attacker’s torso. As his opponent reeled backwards and began to fall, Yaropolk pulled his sword back and thrust it deeply into the attacker’s chest.

The man gasped, then let out a croak and collapsed to the floor. Yaropolk stood panting for a moment, then stepped over the body and went to alert the guards.

A Very Super Market lay dead on the floor behind him.

In a different part of the fortress grounds, Secura was walking towards the door of the building where he slept. As he passed a merchant’s wagon, he heard furtive movement and jumped back. As he did, a man came out of the wagon, sword at the ready. Secura drew her own sword.

“Why hello!” said the attacker, “Care to dance?”

Secura got the idea he wouldn’t take no for an answer. He swung first and caught the smirking attacker off guard. The attacker parried and lunged with his blade. Secura dodged quickly, and the blade barely missed. Secura backed off while swinging to gain distance, but the attacker kept moving in.

With sword held aloft, the attacker quickly closed the distance as Secura attempted to circle backwards around the wagon. The attacker struck, but Secura parried again and lashed out quickly in retaliation, forcing the attacker to take a step back. Secura kicked a wooden box over and ran to the nearest building, yelling for assistance. The attacker jumped over the box, then hesitated. He could hear people stirring in the building, and decided caution was sometimes the better part of valor.

Gerard entered a fit of melancholy when he heard the news. So many attacks was dire news.

He gestured for Hans to make today’s announcement. Hans just stood silently, an empathetic expression on his face. Finally Gerard turned in his seat and demanded, “Well?”

“You know you have to give the orders and announcements around here, sir.”

Gerard didn’t move. It was several minutes before he sighed deeply and got up.

In the court below he addressed the crowd, “Greetings. We had a rough night last night, and that means we have to catch the people doing this. Anyone looking for motivation should remember there’s a place for them on the killer’s list.”

He had a guard post a list of the dead.

It is now the day phase, which will last for 28 hours, until 9 am PST (GMT -7) March 16.

Alive:
Beskar
a completely inoffensive name
Diamondeye
Csargo
Jolt
atheotes
Sasaki Kojiro
Joooray
GeneralHankerchief
TinCow
pevergreen
Askthepizzaguy
White_eyes:D
Subotan
Reenk Roink
Yaropolk
Sigurd
TheFlax
Yaseikhaan
slashandburn
Double A
Beefy187
Myrddraal
Cultured Drizzt fan
Scienter
Renata
spL1tp3r50naL1ty
Captain Blackadder
Centurion1
Seon
Methos
Thermal Mercury
autolycus
johnhughtom
Ibn-Khaldun
Winston Hughes
Secura
Psychonaut


Lynched:
Kagemusha

Killed:
Chaotix
Seamus Fermanagh
A Very Super Market

[Joooray]

Let's see, we have
- a three persons attack on CDf, somehow the setup seems like a vigilante kill to me, but I could be wrong. The part that struck me most was the "There he is"-cry, I don't picture some Turkish spies to behave like that. Also the write-up indicates that there maybe is a fourth person missing.
- a weird attack on Seamus, that seems like a serial killer. That opens the discussion to whether he is triggered by something or steered by free-will.
- a solo attack on Chaotix, nothing odd here, except that it is solo.
- a two-man attack or two attacks on Yaro, since it wasn't successful my guess is that it is a three-persons attack gone wrong, killing AVSM in the process.
- finally an unsuccessful hit on Secura. Maybe also an attack where some people didn't show up.

Just my 2cent to get the discussion rolling. All in all I really have a hard time figuring out which one of those was/were the mafia hit(s). We still don't know if the mafia kills together and if they are able to hit multiple targets each night right?

Could the members of the unsuccessful hit that got AVSM killed step up. Maybe one of your group was mafia and thus the hit failed. (Then again there is the issue with wrong orders that CR addressed)
Also, why did you target Yaro?

[TinCow]

So... anyone feel like justifying their random vig attempts? :stare:

[Captain Blackadder]

Yeah somehow I suspect no one will come foward untill at least they hit an actual mafia member. If anything I suspect someone is going the four horsemen route.

[Secura]

- a three persons attack on CDf, somehow the setup seems like a vigilante kill to me, but I could be wrong. The part that struck me most was the "There he is"-cry, I don't picture some Turkish spies to behave like that. Also the write-up indicates that there maybe is a fourth person missing.

Hmmm, CDf appeared to escape; here we have a person who was able to outrun his three attackers with relative ease when the likes of Chaotix and Seamus were killed by a single person. I'm wondering if this is simply overnight protection or something more.


- a weird attack on Seamus, that seems like a serial killer. That opens the discussion to whether he is triggered by something or steered by free-will.
- a solo attack on Chaotix, nothing odd here, except that it is solo.

These two worry me; both died after being attacked by a single person. Either those single attackers are some power role that is able to night-kill unaided or probability was stacked against both Seamus and Chaotix due to their roles; the ease in which they're killed would suggest they are travellers.


- a two-man attack or two attacks on Yaro, since it wasn't successful my guess is that it is a three-persons attack gone wrong, killing AVSM in the process.

This is quite interesting too. It appears AVSM attempted to kill Yaropolk and his allies failed to appear; without help, AVSM was easily defeated by Yaropolk, it seems.


- finally an unsuccessful hit on Secura. Maybe also an attack where some people didn't show up.

This seems likely too; my attacker seems to have met his match, and he flees before assistance can arrive to help me. I doubt that would have been the outcome if his allies had been present.

[Secura]

Who wants to join me in a vig hit on Secura?

Nah, I doubt anyone will protect her. Besides, our group was stifling. This sucks. :sad:

Case closed?

I can feel the love, Reenk. :<

[Beskar]

Reenk Roink attacked you, Secura. Afterall, he did say "who will join me on a vig hit on Secura?" afterall.

[TinCow]

This seems likely too; my attacker seems to have met his match, and he flees before assistance can arrive to help me. I doubt that would have been the outcome if his allies had been present.

Your attacker was almost certainly Reenk. He called his shot (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126647-The-Shadow-Fort-(In-Play)&p=2449388&viewfull=1#post2449388) to give himself an alibi for last night.

[edit]Doh, should've refreshed before posting.

[Secura]

Perhaps it was a solo attack to begin with, and there was never going to be anyone joining Reenk in the attack. I guess we'll know for certain when he shows up in the thread. :3

It solves one of the night's attacks anyway.

[Kagemusha]

So it hasnt clarified to you people all ready that if the nature of the game is that mafia can recruit more people, the only way to deal with the situation is to diminish that pool of people by attacking and killing anyone even bit suspicious with vig groups. Just like ATGP suggested.Tincow by taking a stand against vigilante killings you should die next.

[Secura]

So it hasnt clarified to you people all ready that if the nature of the game is that mafia can recruit more people, the only way to deal with the situation is to diminish that pool of people by attacking and killing anyone even bit suspicious with vig groups.

Just a question; why would the mafia recruit people who have appeared to be suspicious... only for vigilantes to kill them?

[Kagemusha]

Just a question; why would the mafia recruit people who have appeared to be suspicious... only for vigilantes to kill them?

I know answering question with question is bit rude, but if your hypothesis is that why mafia would recruit anyone suspicious. I might ask you why the town should lynch anyone suspicious, since surely mafia should by your defination look like innocent? But in matter of fact you should not put too much weight on the word suspicious. More important is just to kill people and wish that you strike at right people. In the end lynching people is just the same thing. The only difference being that is just a larger group of people who decide who dies.

[TinCow]

Tincow by taking a stand against vigilante killings you should die next.

This is the awesomest lynch reasoning ever.

[naut]

Just a question; why would the mafia recruit people who have appeared to be suspicious... only for vigilantes to kill them?
I think Kage is saying vig people who's behaviour becomes suspicious as the game progresses. And I'd tend to agree, to an extent, but it's risky later on as the town's advantage is numbers. Killing people off willy nilly is precarious later on. :2cents:

[Kagemusha]

This is the awesomest lynch reasoning ever.

It doesnt have to be lynch. Vig hit works justs as well. Its just that if your defending mafia by your attack against vigilantism. You should die.:smash:

[Secura]

I know answering question with question is bit rude, but if your hypothesis is that why mafia would recruit anyone suspicious. I might ask you why the town should lynch anyone suspicious, since surely mafia should by your defination look like innocent? But in matter of fact you should not put too much weight on the word suspicious. More important is just to kill people and wish that you strike at right people. In the end lynching people is just the same thing. The only difference being that is just a larger group of people who decide who dies.

Recruitment and lynching are two entirely different things, though.

The best example of what I meant is someone like Beskar, who drew alot of criticism and suspicion in the previous round; why would the mafia want to recruit someone that we find suspicious? It all seems a little counter-productive.

[pevergreen]

Recruitment and lynching are two entirely different things, though.

The best example of what I meant is someone like Beskar, who drew alot of criticism and suspicion in the previous round; why would the mafia want to recruit someone that we find suspicious? It all seems a little counter-productive.

Not getting lynched is the right mix of innocent and suspicious.

Or back in the good old days, just a single word from someone.

Me as well, but no one paid attention to the fact, even though I cried out for it.

[TinCow]

It doesnt have to be lynch. Vig hit works justs as well. Its just that if your defending mafia by your attack against vigilantism. You should die.:smash:

Let me make sure I've got this straight; you're saying that random vig kills are good for the town, and trying to discourage them is scummy?

[Kagemusha]

Recruitment and lynching are two entirely different things, though.

The best example of what I meant is someone like Beskar, who drew alot of criticism and suspicion in the previous round; why would the mafia want to recruit someone that we find suspicious? It all seems a little counter-productive.

I am not here after Beskar. Like i already said before i got lynched i was quite sure that he is innocent, just being unproductive. But generally mafia decides whom they recruit and there isnt a single approach to whom to recruit. But what you missed from my post is that in the end anyone who is likely to join mafia should be killed as soon as possible and by that defination Beskar should go also, being the trickster he is.


Let me make sure I've got this straight; you're saying that random vig kills are good for the town, and trying to discourage them is scummy?

With all due respect Tincow it seems you have entirely misunderstood the concept of this game or you are just acting up now. Just read the previous page of this thread and you should understand. Read carefully the posts of ATGP, Sasaki and mine. In principle we all agreed on the fact that for mafia this game will be more about recruiting then killing. Each night that passes the mafia can grow in numbers, so the odds of the town to win diminish. So my question to you is: How to prevent that from happening?EDIT: Sorry the couple last pages ;)

[TinCow]

With all due respect Tincow it seems you have entirely misunderstood the concept of this game or you are just acting up now. Just read the previous page of this thread and you should understand. Read carefully the posts of ATGP, Sasaki and mine. In principle we all agreed on the fact that for mafia this game will be more about recruiting then killing. Each night that passes the mafia can grow in numbers, so the odds of the town to win diminish. So my question to you is: How to prevent that from happening?

Kill the mafia. Killing random townies is pointless, as you have no ability to pick out the unrecruitable from the recuitable. By random vig killing, you could be actively increasing the ratio of recruitable people to unrecruitable people. Random killings always have been, and always are, bad (except for situations like Reenk's last night, which is semi-acceptable for the same reasons as Twilightblade in Capo 3). When you ID an actual suspect, then vig killings are useful. As far as I am aware, that was not the case last night.

[atheotes]

Thinking out loud...

Let's see, we have
- a three persons attack on CDf, somehow the setup seems like a vigilante kill to me, but I could be wrong. The part that struck me most was the "There he is"-cry, I don't picture some Turkish spies to behave like that. Also the write-up indicates that there maybe is a fourth person missing.
the write-up hints at the missing 4th person. so agree that it is probably a vig attempts

- a weird attack on Seamus, that seems like a serial killer. That opens the discussion to whether he is triggered by something or steered by free-will.the description about the killer makes me think it could be a serial killer. But this is his first appearance and not much can be gathered

- a solo attack on Chaotix, nothing odd here, except that it is solo.Since the warrior class can kill solo, it could well be a mafia hit. the OP says warrior class can attack solo or with another warrior. so a solo attack could succeed or fail based on the target's class. this could be the reason that it is mentioned in the OP that mafia have to work together to kill. Chaotix was seen as acting scummy last round. The only reason i can think of him being a target for a mafia kill - He was scanned and revealed to be a traveller and perhaps as an incorruptible even (or he rejected their offer of recruitment - unlikely given that it is only the second night i guess)


- a two-man attack or two attacks on Yaro, since it wasn't successful my guess is that it is a three-persons attack gone wrong, killing AVSM in the process.Looks like a vig attempt - i think this could the four horsemen again, i mean, the same people and one failed to show up

- finally an unsuccessful hit on Secura. Maybe also an attack where some people didn't show up.Reenk? Perhaps the attacker got favorable dice rolls that saved his life and also from being revealed in the writeup.


Just my 2cent to get the discussion rolling. All in all I really have a hard time figuring out which one of those was/were the mafia hit(s). We still don't know if the mafia kills together and if they are able to hit multiple targets each night right?yeah...we have not identified any other subfactions at work either... so our guesses might be nowhere near the truth. :sad:

[Secura]

With all due respect Tincow it seems you have entirely misunderstood the concept of this game or you are just acting up now. Just read the previous page of this thread and you should understand. Read carefully the posts of ATGP, Sasaki and mine. In principle we all agreed on the fact that for mafia this game will be more about recruiting then killing. Each night that passes the mafia can grow in numbers, so the odds of the town to win diminish. So my question to you is: How to prevent that from happening?

Actually, it seems as though you have missed a valuable point about the game. An exerpt from CR's original recruitment/explanation post is below:

This game also features conversion, a hybrid between Capo and Pirate Ship mafia. Only certain townspeople are susceptible to conversion. The mafia can investigate people to find out who. They can then give a note (written by them, delivered by me) enticing the townie to join their cause. Doing so will give the townie a chance at a higher victory level. Townies will be unable to betray the mafia, though, as once they have accepted the note the town will need to kill them to win (even if the detective ordered said townie to infiltrate the mafia, by Imperial law in the setting, such people must be killed).
Sub factions can also convert in a similar manner, though the rewards and risks may be different.

So the mafia cannot simply recruit willy-nilly; certain elements of the Fort cannot be swayed to their purpose. They have to investigate in order to learn who they can and cannot sway to their cause, and then if they find someone who can be turned, they have CR send them a note. That would take two night phases; one to investigate, one to recruit. And that's if the investigation turned up what the mafia wanted.

How many orders are you proposing the mafia are permitted per night phase? Because if you factor in night kills, investigations and recruitment... well they cannot do them all at once, surely?

[Kagemusha]

Kill the mafia. Killing random townies is pointless, as you have no ability to pick out the unrecruitable from the recuitable. By random vig killing, you could be actively increasing the ratio of recruitable people to unrecruitable people. Random killings always have been, and always are, bad (except for situations like Reenk's last night, which is semi-acceptable for the same reasons as Twilightblade in Capo 3). When you ID an actual suspect, then vig killings are useful. As far as I am aware, that was not the case last night.

No kill all potential mafia specially lurkers. Not random killing. Kill also anyone who suggests otherwise.Decesive action must be taken in order to win. Otherwise mafia will lurk this game untill they have recruited enough they will make short work of town.

Edit: Secure actually i havent like you can seee from this post. If drastic measures are not taken. Mafia will easily lurk into victory. Kill all the lurkers and witness who will pop up in radar when they are forced to become active, because otherwise they would be vig killed.Then you will have your mafia.

[Renata]

What situation like Reenk's last night?

[Joooray]

Hmmm, CDf appeared to escape; here we have a person who was able to outrun his three attackers with relative ease when the likes of Chaotix and Seamus were killed by a single person. I'm wondering if this is simply overnight protection or something more.

As I said there is also something in the write-up that suggests that there is somebody missing:
Spurred on by desperation, he leaped to the top and hauled himself over. Landing in a heap on the other side, he thanked God there was no one waiting to stab him as he got up.
So it could be three things: CDf's ability, someone missing or pure luck.
Remember CR stated that there would be different likelihoods of success for hits.



These two worry me; both died after being attacked by a single person. Either those single attackers are some power role that is able to night-kill unaided or probability was stacked against both Seamus and Chaotix due to their roles; the ease in which they're killed would suggest they are travellers.


I think it is safe to assume that there are some people able to kill on there own, and I don't think it depends purely on the strength of their target.
What is much more interesting is, if those are the mafia or not. So are they able to kill more than one person per night, do all of them have to kill and so on.
I still don't see which is the mafia hit(s).


I think Kage is saying vig people who's behaviour becomes suspicious as the game progresses. And I'd tend to agree, to an extent, but it's risky later on as the town's advantage is numbers. Killing people off willy nilly is precarious later on. :2cents:

I had to rethink my standing on vig-kills after the success of the horseman in Pirate Ship Mafia. But I still think it's extremely risky, especially if you don't have someone able to investigate. Killing people into the blue will more often kill innocent people than guilty ones. :shrug:

[Joooray]

No kill all potential mafia specially lurkers. Not random killing. Kill also anyone who suggests otherwise.Decesive action must be taken in order to win. Otherwise mafia will lurk this game untill they have recruited enough they will make short work of town.

Edit: Secure actually i havent like you can seee from this post. If drastic measures are not taken. Mafia will easily lurk into victory. Kill all the lurkers and witness who will pop up in radar when they are forced to become active, because otherwise they would be vig killed.Then you will have your mafia.

Man, being killed sure has made you a radical. :laugh3:
I stand by it though, even if it will get me killed, if you have it your way.

[TinCow]

No kill all potential mafia specially lurkers. Not random killing. Kill also anyone who suggests otherwise.Decesive action must be taken in order to win. Otherwise mafia will lurk this game untill they have recruited enough they will make short work of town.

Then why are you accusing me of supporting the mafia when I was scolding people specifically for RANDOM vig kills (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126647-The-Shadow-Fort-(In-Play)&p=2449505&viewfull=1#post2449505)?

[Kagemusha]

Then why are you accusing me of supporting the mafia when I was scolding people specifically for RANDOM vig kills (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126647-The-Shadow-Fort-(In-Play)&p=2449505&viewfull=1#post2449505)?

Because in my judgement i see you as very capable to understand that vig kills are very necessary, while you decided to go against them. Thus you should die.

[Secura]

Just something that might be of interest after checking the post counts of all those targetted overnight:

Secura: 42
Yaropolk: 8
CDf: 4
Chaotix: 4
Seamus: 3
AVSM: 2

Some pretty low post counts overall. The vigilantes (or mafia, cannot rule that out) are obviously adhering to Kage's belief that we should:


kill all potential mafia specially lurkers.

[TinCow]

What situation like Reenk's last night?

In Capo 3, Twilightblade made solo vig attempts pretty much every night of the game. Since he was a townie and was attacking solo, his attacked had no risk of succeeding, so they were not dangerous. At the same time, because he was always attacking solo, his night actions were clearly visible to everyone, so we knew for certain that he was not doing something else at night. Essentially, by attacking he cleared himself of every other murder, thus proving that he was a townie. Reenk's attack last night is similar: he said he was going to attack you, and we saw it appear in the write-up. So, we know exactly what Reenk was doing last night, and it wasn't investigating or murdering.

[TinCow]

Because in my judgement i see you as very capable to understand that vig kills are very necessary, while you decided to go against them. Thus you should die.

You agree that random vig killings are bad, but you think I'm scummy for criticizing random vig killings? I cannot possibly be understanding you correctly, so please explain what I'm missing.

[Joooray]

Reenk's attack last night is similar: he said he was going to attack you, and we saw it appear in the write-up. So, we know exactly what Reenk was doing last night, and it wasn't investigating or murdering.

I think you are mixing up Renata and Secura. But I know too much women around lately. :wink:
Anyway, what Twilight did was definitely entertaining, so Reenk, if you'll continue this, you have some big foots to fill when it comes to write-ups. The way I see it, if you use that to prove you haven't done anything wrong, at least make it entertaining for the others. :wink:

[naut]

Because in my judgement i see you as very capable to understand that vig kills are very necessary, while you decided to go against them. Thus you should die.
What?

[Kagemusha]

You agree that random vig killings are bad, but you think I'm scummy for criticizing random vig killings? I cannot possibly be understanding you correctly, so please explain what I'm missing.

You are placing too much weight on the semantics. Why are you clinging in the word "random" since isnt everything random to you that you dont know off? To me in this game its completely enough for you to die, to pretend you didnt understand my logic behind defending vig kills.


What?

Sorry about my bad Englsih. What im trying to say is that i know that Tincow is quite the formidable mafia player and organisator and i find it quite suspicious that he is saying that the logic behind why i defend vig kills didnt occur to him, but i had to defend my point of view to him.

[autolycus]

I'm not sure I follow people's analysis, but it seems like atheotes was acting suspiciously yesterday, so I'm going to vote:atheotes

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Vig kills are good for the town. Especially given the wild and random nature of our lynches. Suspicious people who are vigged aren't lynched later.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I'm not sure I follow people's analysis, but it seems like atheotes was acting suspiciously yesterday, so I'm going to vote:atheotes

:stare:

[johnhughthom]

Thread skimming FTW.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Vote:Beefy

For being very serious and un-beefy like yesterday.

[TinCow]

You are placing too much weight on the semantics. Why are you clinging in the word "random" since isnt everything random to you that you dont know off? To me in this game its completely enough for you to die, to pretend you didnt understand my logic behind defending vig kills.

It's not remotely semantics, because the word "random" means everything in this situation. Random kills are bad. Non-random kills can be good. There's a huge difference, which is why I specifically used the word random. I may be many things in mafia games, but one thing I am not is lazy with my words.

[pevergreen]

At the same time, because he was always attacking solo, his night actions were clearly visible to everyone, so we knew for certain that he was not doing something else at night. Essentially, by attacking he cleared himself of every other murder, thus proving that he was a townie

I cannot let that stand.

He did it because he is lazy.

Now, to those who are new, I've known Twilightblade for... 15 years now. I did ask him about it at the time. He got in the mood and he just couldn't be bothered to get out of it. His objective was to get killed by the % chance of it. He somehow lucked out and didnt die from a single attack. His aim was to attack alone until he died. That's all. He wanted out.

Thats why I refused him entry into my last large game, he was around, he said he'd stick around, and he was gone within a week.

He and Warluster share the award. The award no one wants.

With that off my chest, lets go on with the game.

I say we lynch Reenk.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Just something that might be of interest after checking the post counts of all those targetted overnight:

Secura: 42
Yaropolk: 8
CDf: 4
Chaotix: 4
Seamus: 3
AVSM: 2

Some pretty low post counts overall. The vigilantes (or mafia, cannot rule that out) are obviously adhering to Kage's belief that we should:


kill all potential mafia specially lurkers.

If vigilantes(or mafia) really attacked those above only because they could be seen lurkers then why would they attack Secura?
If it was Reenk who tried to attack her then it was rather pathetic attempt.
Or did Reenk follow Beskar's example and it was just WIFOM?
Or if it was mafia then were they trying to kill her because she could expose them using her secret abilities?

[Yaropolk]

From the writeup it doesn't appear that I had a 2 man group attack me but rather two separate attempts with 1 man each. If the crossbow attacker is trying to kill people solo to show that he was active, I suggest he come forward now. You can do it to me in private if you want. I am not scum and am not interested in lynching you if you really are a vigilante. I think most townies will agree with me.

Like many others have suggested, I believe we may have a 4 horsemen deal going on here. As such I would like the former members of the group (AVSM, ACIN, split and who else?) to come forward and confirm whether this is their work.

Vote: A Completely Inoffensive Name to drive the point home

[Subotan]

Like many others have suggested, I believe we may have a 4 horsemen deal going on here.
Nope. Our goal in PSM was to cause chaos and kil as many people as possible. Our weapon was surprise, as no-one would suspect townies of being anti-town. However, we obviously have no chance of surprise here, so there was no point in setting one up.


(AVSM, ACIN, split and who else?)
:stare:

[GeneralHankerchief]

We interrupt this serious discussion of yours to bring you the day's bandwagon:

https://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x246/greaterkhaan/466.gif

Vote: Beskar

THE SMILEY COMMANDS YOU

[seireikhaan]

We interrupt this serious discussion of yours to bring you the day's bandwagon:

https://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x246/greaterkhaan/466.gif

Vote: Beskar

THE SMILEY COMMANDS YOU

[Secura]

If vigilantes(or mafia) really attacked those above only because they could be seen lurkers then why would they attack Secura?

Well, a few people have said he did it to emulate this Twilightblade person; if he announces who he is going to attack during the day phase and then that target is attacked overnight, it gives him/her an alibi for what they were doing.

He may have had a specific reason to target me, it could simply have been random and someone else will be targetted tonight... we'll know when he posts. :3

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Reenk did a solo attack on me in Capo iirc.

[Splitpersonality]

(AVSM, ACIN, split and who else?)

Erm, as far as I know I was not a four horseman... Unless I"m forgetting something :bow:

[pevergreen]

We interrupt this serious discussion of yours to bring you the day's bandwagon:

https://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x246/greaterkhaan/466.gif

Vote: Beskar

THE SMILEY COMMANDS YOU

I can't resist https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v209/josephguzman/Sci-Fi/Khaan.gif
Vote: Beskar

[Yaropolk]

Nope. Our goal in PSM was to cause chaos and kil as many people as possible. Our weapon was surprise, as no-one would suspect townies of being anti-town. However, we obviously have no chance of surprise here, so there was no point in setting one up.


:stare:

Unvote: ACIN

Subotan - are you then straight up telling me that four horsemen group (in its former membership) did not try to vig kill anyone last night?

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Well, a few people have said he did it to emulate this Twilightblade person; if he announces who he is going to attack during the day phase and then that target is attacked overnight, it gives him/her an alibi for what they were doing.

He may have had a specific reason to target me, it could simply have been random and someone else will be targetted tonight... we'll know when he posts. :3

So, if Reenk was mafia he just gave himself an alibi because he attacked you? :inquisitive:

It looks like I can't think as a mafia game player yet. :shrug:

[Beskar]

Bandwagon a known townie. Interesting.

[Secura]

So, if Reenk was mafia he just gave himself an alibi because he attacked you? :inquisitive:

No idea, really. If it was based on the same premise that he kept attacking people alone and they weren't dying, would that not allude to his role being weak and unable to fight by himself, IE a traveller? I guess this is what he was trying to emulate.

[Kagemusha]

Bandwagon a known townie. Interesting.

And how you are any more known townie then anyone else?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

If we are going to random joke bandwagon someone it should be sigurd (lurking) or winston (active lurking).

[naut]

And how you are any more known townie then anyone else?
Agreed. However, you are an easy target due to all the ruckus that occured in the last phase.

My gut says Sigurd has a role. Hey, hey, hey. Vote: Sigurd

[Beskar]

Vote: Sigurd

Because he lurked in Netherworld as well and in Riftwar he was very active.

[Kagemusha]

Vote: Sigurd

Because he lurked in Netherworld as well and in Riftwar he was very active.

Well if anything is scummy, then this is. You cant see more blatant bandwagon attempt then this to save ones own hide.

[seireikhaan]

:laugh4:

Do you guys really think Sigurd would try the same thing twice in a row? Really, honestly, you guys think that? C'mon...

[Ibn-Khaldun]

No idea, really. If it was based on the same premise that he kept attacking people alone and they weren't dying, would that not allude to his role being weak and unable to fight by himself, IE a traveller? I guess this is what he was trying to emulate.

Or mafia is not able to kill alone but only in teams?(If he is mafia of course)

[Diamondeye]

And why would i need lectures from you? First you want to lynch me without factual evidence based on your wish to "pressure" me and then you want to start helping me out with credibility issues? How very helpful of you. Helpfull for yourself. It is quite illogical for you to try and help me out with credibility issues towards the town now that im dead. Shouldnt your opinion about me be that i was rightfull lynch, thus my posts should only harm the town? Or did you think at any point really that i was guilty? Quite strange, unless you knew all along that you were lynching a townie.

I originally voted for you to pressure; true. Later, it was between you and Beskar. As I have already said once I judged that Beskar had a higher probability of being town and I haven't been convinced otherwise - to the contrary.


No kill all potential mafia specially lurkers. Not random killing. Kill also anyone who suggests otherwise.Decesive action must be taken in order to win. Otherwise mafia will lurk this game untill they have recruited enough they will make short work of town.

Edit: Secure actually i havent like you can seee from this post. If drastic measures are not taken. Mafia will easily lurk into victory. Kill all the lurkers and witness who will pop up in radar when they are forced to become active, because otherwise they would be vig killed.Then you will have your mafia.

This (as well as your later posts) strike me as decidedly blinded, to be frank. You (and a pair of prominent living players) are very vocal in advocating lots of seemingly random killings. If you didn't know better you'd think that it was mafia behaviour at its most obvious. Since Sasaki seems to be an eager follower of this nonsense and is otherwise a brilliant player, here's vote: Sasaki Kojiro and FoS: GH.


Just something that might be of interest after checking the post counts of all those targetted overnight:

Secura: 42
Yaropolk: 8
CDf: 4
Chaotix: 4
Seamus: 3
AVSM: 2

Some pretty low post counts overall. The vigilantes (or mafia, cannot rule that out) are obviously adhering to Kage's belief that we should:

Very useful, in fact. I'd think the hit against you (a very active player) could be a mafia kill if it wasn't amateur-work and failed. I think you and Jooray are right in the random vig attempts from a number of others including AVSM, who died (which I think is fine, by the way, as I'm against these random hits and - there is a small chance of him being a mafia missending orders or not coordinating with team members).

The proposed SK/3rdParty could be striking at a low-profile target (or someone suspicious - was it Chaotix?) to keep a low profile.


And how you are any more known townie then anyone else?

Now you're the one failing to read the last couple of pages. I know from being mafia with Beskar before that he might be very thread-active and good at blindworks and deception, but he's not going to kickstart the town as he did with only personal risk to gain if he has responsibility towards a mafia team. It's simply counter-productive.

I'd estimate, going by the device that roughly every 6-8th person is mafia (meaning roughly 15%) that Beskar's around 5%, whereas you're scoring a nice 40%. I can't find any town arguments for what you're advocating. If Sasaki or other supporters of the suggestion would kindly explain it to me in a non-condescending tone, I'd be grateful.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Bandwagon a known townie. Interesting.

You seem to be taking an obviously joke bandwagon too seriously.

[Kagemusha]

I originally voted for you to pressure; true. Later, it was between you and Beskar. As I have already said once I judged that Beskar had a higher probability of being town and I haven't been convinced otherwise - to the contrary.



This (as well as your later posts) strike me as decidedly blinded, to be frank. You (and a pair of prominent living players) are very vocal in advocating lots of seemingly random killings. If you didn't know better you'd think that it was mafia behaviour at its most obvious. Since Sasaki seems to be an eager follower of this nonsense and is otherwise a brilliant player, here's vote: Sasaki Kojiro and FoS: GH.



Very useful, in fact. I'd think the hit against you (a very active player) could be a mafia kill if it wasn't amateur-work and failed. I think you and Jooray are right in the random vig attempts from a number of others including AVSM, who died (which I think is fine, by the way, as I'm against these random hits and - there is a small chance of him being a mafia missending orders or not coordinating with team members).

The proposed SK/3rdParty could be striking at a low-profile target (or someone suspicious - was it Chaotix?) to keep a low profile.



Now you're the one failing to read the last couple of pages. I know from being mafia with Beskar before that he might be very thread-active and good at blindworks and deception, but he's not going to kickstart the town as he did with only personal risk to gain if he has responsibility towards a mafia team. It's simply counter-productive.

I'd estimate, going by the device that roughly every 6-8th person is mafia (meaning roughly 15%) that Beskar's around 5%, whereas you're scoring a nice 40%. I can't find any town arguments for what you're advocating. If Sasaki or other supporters of the suggestion would kindly explain it to me in a non-condescending tone, I'd be grateful.

Plain and simply it is not my problem that you cant understand my line of thinking. The problem is in your corner.

[pevergreen]

Its a joke bandwagon?

Aww.
Unvote: Beskar

Theres someone very suspicious here. They're sitting so low in the post count compared to their average...

[Secura]

Or mafia is not able to kill alone but only in teams?(If he is mafia of course)

I had not considered this, but it's certainly plausible; it would encourage more investigation/recruitment on the mafia's part than simply mindless killing.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Well, sort of. Beskar is obviously scummy but we want to avenge Kage's death.

[Yaropolk]

Its a joke bandwagon?

Aww.
Unvote: Beskar

Theres someone very suspicious here. They're sitting so low in the post count compared to their average...

Who?

[Jolt]

Third guy on the bandwagon is (almost) always scummy.

Vote: pevergreen

[pevergreen]

Already unvoted. :laugh4:

Yara: have a look at the post count thingy, then think who normally posts a lot more than what they are.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Secura: Survived. Could be soldier/warrior.
Yaropolk: Survived. The same.
CDf: Survived. Very lucky. The above I think.
Chaotix: Easily killed. Most likely Traveler.
Seamus: Just like Chaotix.
AVSM: Killed. Traveler trying to attack someone with higher level I guess.

Any other thoughts?

[Winston Hughes]

If we are going to random joke bandwagon someone it should be sigurd (lurking) or winston (active lurking).

I'm glad that my lurking skills are finally getting the recognition they deserve.

By way of thanks, I'm going to vote: Diamondeye. I find his well-reasoned vote against you to be quite convincing, so I guess you'll be wanting him out of the way soon enough.

[Yaropolk]

Already unvoted. :laugh4:

Yara: have a look at the post count thingy, then think who normally posts a lot more than what they are.

I assume you mean CDF. He hasn't wrapped up his swords and d20's game in like 3 days even though it should be over. I think he has RL stuff.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

As far as I know CDf have computer related problems.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Well if anything is scummy, then this is. You cant see more blatant bandwagon attempt then this to save ones own hide.

Hide saving attempts aren't particularly scummy.


:laugh4:

Do you guys really think Sigurd would try the same thing twice in a row? Really, honestly, you guys think that? C'mon...

FOS: khaan

Major scum points here...



This (as well as your later posts) strike me as decidedly blinded, to be frank. You (and a pair of prominent living players) are very vocal in advocating lots of seemingly random killings. If you didn't know better you'd think that it was mafia behaviour at its most obvious.

In games with a vig, the accepted best strategy is that he kill every night. At least, many people believe that. I certainly do and have often pushed for vig kills. Let's take a normal game, with say 1 lynch and 2 mafia kills. The town has one shot at mafia, the mafia have 2 at town. Now let's say the town can kill at night. They just doubled their chance at finding mafia. Arguing against vig kills is similar to arguing for "no lynch".


Third guy on the bandwagon is (almost) always scummy.

Vote: pevergreen

fos:jolt

[TinCow]

FOS: khaan

Major scum points here...

I'm pretty sure 'khaan was joking. He hosted Chicago Soiree after all...

[Beskar]

You seem to be taking an obviously joke bandwagon too seriously.

So saying "Interesting." is too serious? That is how I rated it and how much attention I paid to it. :tongue:

[Splitpersonality]

Secura: Survived. Could be soldier/warrior.
Yaropolk: Survived. The same.
CDf: Survived. Very lucky. The above I think.
Chaotix: Easily killed. Most likely Traveler.
Seamus: Just like Chaotix.
AVSM: Killed. Traveler trying to attack someone with higher level I guess.
Any other thoughts?


I agree with that, but the CDF writeup seems to suggest more that there should have been a fourth person there to attack him by normal circumstances, I think he may just be a lucky traveler.

If he were at all proficient with a blade I think he would have fought back even a little before fleeing...

[Subotan]

Unvote: ACIN

Subotan - are you then straight up telling me that four horsemen group (in its former membership) did not try to vig kill anyone last night?
Yes.

[GeneralHankerchief]

So saying "Interesting." is too serious? That is how I rated it and how much attention I paid to it. :tongue:

It's more than that and you know it. Lack of making fun of khaan or me, which you usually try to do. Implying that you're innocent and thus we're obviously stupid for starting such a bandwagon. You always take things more seriously when you're mafia and now you're obviously trying to overcompensate for it by attempting to return to your normal jokey tone.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I'm pretty sure 'khaan was joking. He hosted Chicago Soiree after all...

So that's why it sounded weird, lol. I didn't play Chicago.

[Secura]

If he were at all proficient with a blade I think he would have fought back even a little before fleeing...

Which would imply that CDf is, in fact, a traveller who simply got very lucky on his rolls. That and the fact the fourth member of the attacking group was absent, thus reducing their effectiveness and chance of success to begin with.

[pevergreen]

Sasaki. don't make it so obvious that we're inseperable allies.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Sasaki. don't make it so obvious that we're inseperable allies.

While I do find you to be extremely innocent, I only replied to jolt because I find him genuinely suspicious, not as a defense of you. In fact, hah, I had not even noticed that it was you he was voting!

[Beskar]

It's more than that and you know it. Lack of making fun of khaan or me, which you usually try to do. Implying that you're innocent and thus we're obviously stupid for starting such a bandwagon. You always take things more seriously when you're mafia and now you're obviously trying to overcompensate for it by attempting to return to your normal jokey tone.

You just want revenge for my Star Wars Kid joke. :cry:

Can't we just kiss and make up?

[Reenk Roink]

Case closed?

How?


Reenk Roink attacked you, Secura. Afterall, he did say "who will join me on a vig hit on Secura?" afterall.

Afterall, that's how you afterall determine this stuff afterall, isn't it, afterall?


Your attacker was almost certainly Reenk.

Why, because I wanted to vig Secura who is probably not a good guy? How does public intent for a vig group translate into a solo attempt on her?


He called his shot (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126647-The-Shadow-Fort-(In-Play)&p=2449388&viewfull=1#post2449388) to give himself an alibi for last night.

Do you really think I think this way? :laugh4:


I guess we'll know for certain when he shows up in the thread. :3

No you won't.


It solves one of the night's attacks anyway.

No it doesn't.

Vote: Beskar

Secura should be taken care off behind the scenes.


Random killings always have been, and always are, bad...

I tend to agree, but nothing is ontologically random, and few things are actually epistemically random.

So the vig kills are actually not a bad idea in some of these cases. No better than lynches which could be said to have the same degree of randomness. After all, the vig kills are just like extra lynches that require less people to be convinced about someone.

I guess you could make the case that we need to filter down the town directed killings though.


Reenk's attack last night is similar: he said he was going to attack you, and we saw it appear in the write-up.

(I'm only doing this because you're particular with words :beam:)

I never said I was going to attack her. I made a request for a vig group who's target would be Secura.

Even if you would make the case that I had intent to attack her (certainly true - in a sense - I want her dead because I symphatize very much with Kagemusha who I believe is one of the really powerful good guys and I don't like the way she saved Beskar to condemn him and then later on scolded him for posting a lot as a dead guy - out of all the voters of Kage, her posts hit my gut as the most bad), there is nothing in that post that says anything about last night.

In fact, I would argue that given the time that post was made in relation to the end of the night, it would be a much better operating assumption that I was planning a hit on her the upcoming night. :yes:


So, we know exactly what Reenk was doing last night, and it wasn't investigating or murdering.

No you don't. The underlying assumption that I was the one who attacked Secura is very suspect. :yes:

Vote: Beskar because he seems like someone who will actually be lynched this round and Secura and Beskar seem to have a relationship in this game anyway.

EDIT: I edited this post so that my new vote on Secura in the latest post of mine would count because I forgot to unvote there and I don't want to make a new post because this thread is too spamy anyway.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Can't we just kiss and make up?

The spirit of Kage cries out for vengeance. We the living must satisfy him and put him at peace.

[TinCow]

I never said I was going to attack her. I made a request for a vig group who's target would be Secura.

Fair enough. Will you then be so kind as you clarify whether that attack was your work or not?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Fair enough. Will you then be so kind as you clarify whether that attack was your work or not?

Like that's going to happen :laugh4:

*********

This game is so large that I'm going to have to find a better way to keep track of it all.

[Yaropolk]

Reenk Roink makes some sense (does that make sense ever?) However I dont want this to become another runaway bandwagon on Beskar. I really really really doubt mafia would come out and draw attention to himself like he did first round. Thefore I'll Vote: Secura as another possible lynch candidate in addition to Beskar.

[Splitpersonality]

Which would imply that CDf is, in fact, a traveller who simply got very lucky on his rolls. That and the fact the fourth member of the attacking group was absent, thus reducing their effectiveness and chance of success to begin with.

It was mostly the "Could be soldier/warrior" that I was refuting. He was indeed a lucky townie though.

Perhaps someone didn't show up to that group because they were dead? Or is that not possible because it was the first order executed?

Perhaps this night might helps us figure out what order things go in....

[Methos]

@AskThePizzaGuy

You saw my post in the defty II game and you saw that I was definitely gone during the time I said I was (I was a townie in that game). You also can check my profiles on both sites and see my hobby is caving. You also could have seen that I made the exact same posts in a game that is about to start over at CFC and you could have easily asked the people you know I talk to outside of these games to find out that I've informed them I was going. If you seriously thought I might be lying, you could have very easily researched it to figure out the truth. Heck, had you asked them they may have remembered that I went to Riverbluff last year about this time too, for the entire weekend.

Simply put, I think your reasoning is scummy, so Vote: AskThePizzaGuy.

[Yaropolk]

Basing your votes on the events of the previous round?! That's so passé!

[Secura]

How?

No you won't.

No it doesn't.

Right, because this is totally constructive.


I want her dead because I symphatize very much with Kagemusha who I believe is one of the really powerful good guys and I don't like the way she saved Beskar to condemn him and then later on scolded him for posting a lot as a dead guy - out of all the voters of Kage, her posts hit my gut as the most bad

There's no evidence to suggest Kagemusha was anything, let alone "a really powerful good guy". He had acted scummy before Beskar's ploy.

Someone had to break the deadlock, and considering my vote had been discounted anyway, someone had to grow a pair and vote. If my vote had been four minutes earlier, it would have made the deadline and been the decider anyway. Had CR decided to count all votes after the deadline, Kage would have been lynched anyway.

I scolded him for posting alot as a dead person because all it's doing is encouraging the lurkers to do just that. I take Dethy II as a case in point; myself and Sasaki debated so much (over fifty posts each) that the scum, Double A, was able to win with less than twenty posts or so, and that's a five-man game.

This is a game of forty or more, where it's so much easier to slip back and simply lurk, and 20+ votes from someone who is dead only encourages that behaviour to continue. What can I say, I dislike lurkers.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

It was mostly the "Could be soldier/warrior" that I was refuting. He was indeed a lucky townie though.

Perhaps someone didn't show up to that group because they were dead? Or is that not possible because it was the first order executed?

Perhaps this night might helps us figure out what order things go in....

I actually like to know how protection groups work.
I understand that if you miss your orders or you miss someones name there it will not carried out or they are not that efficient?
But what if someone attacks person in a protection group that protects someone else? Or is attacking someone?
Also, I don't understand one part in the write-up:

Seamus Fermanagh was walking nearby. He turned to leave, not wanting to be the next target,
Did he investigated CDf?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

This is a game of forty or more, where it's so much easier to slip back and simply lurk, and 20+ votes from someone who is dead only encourages that behaviour to continue. What can I say, I dislike lurkers.

You aren't voting for one though. I don't see a vote from you at all.

-edit-

btw Secura. You are less scummy this game then you were in dethy. Why is that?

[Secura]

You aren't voting for one though. I don't see a vote from you at all.

Because I don't really suspect the lurkers of being mafia, merely that they're not really going to come out and actively post while they can hide behind the debates of others.

I'd like slashandburn, TheFlax, Sigurd, autolycus, CDf, Scienter and Jolt to post a little more. They've all posted five times or less, and I'd like to hear their opinions. :3

[Kagemusha]

Because I don't really suspect the lurkers of being mafia, merely that they're not really going to come out and actively post while they can hide behind the debates of others.

So you dont vote lurkers and you discourage discussion? Very profitable for the town id say.:laugh4:

[Secura]

So you dont vote lurkers and you discourage discussion? Very profitable for the town id say.:laugh4:

No, I don't vote lurkers. Someone was doing it earlier and was heavily criticised for doing so, so what would make this any different?

I don't discourage discussion at all, what would suggest that?

In a game of this size, I'd discourage the dead from being as active as you have been. You've made twenty or more posts since your death, which is more than five of the names I suggested above. They're still alive, I'd like them to post, that is all. :3

[Kagemusha]

No, I don't vote lurkers. One, because I don't see the point in doing so. Two, because someone was doing it earlier and was heavily criticised for doing so.

I don't discourage discussion at all, what would suggest that?

In a game of this size, I'd discourage the dead from being as active as you have been. You've made twenty or more posts since your death, which is more than five of the names I suggest above. They're still alive, I'd like them to post, that is all. :3

Well how are you going to make them speak, asking them nicely? I already gave a bit of hint about how to accomplish that. Vote them and vig kill some more.Then when other lurkers surface, you might ask kindly what is their motivation to start suddenly posting. ;) It is as if i have been talking about weather with people here in this thread after i was lynched. My posting does absolutely nothing to stop lurkers from posting.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

No, I don't vote lurkers. One, because I don't see the point in doing so. Two, because someone was doing it earlier and was heavily criticised for doing so.

Secura: Double A won dethy by lurking
Secura: but I don't support lynching lurkers--I don't see the point
:stare:

Are you afraid of being criticized for voting a lurker?


I don't discourage discussion at all, what would suggest that?

In a game of this size, I'd discourage the dead from being as active as you have been. You've made twenty or more posts since your death, which is more than five of the names I suggest above. They're still alive, I'd like them to post, that is all. :3

You don't discourage discussion at all, but you don't want Kage to discuss things. :dizzy2:

[Secura]

btw Secura. You are less scummy this game then you were in dethy. Why is that?

Because in a game that small, pretty much anything I said was going to stand out to someone, I guess. Just as was the reverse for you in my eyes. Partly why Double A won, I guess. We were pretty fixated on each other being scum until the last moment.

That and I was up against you, and you picked apart everything I said and I only made myself out to be more guilty by trying to defend myself. :3

[Secura]

Secura: Double A won dethy by lurking
Secura: but I don't support lynching lurkers--I don't see the point

He won by lurking, yes, I don't argue with that.

I don't see what else I could do apart from requesting that they post a little more, as I have done. I cannot vote for them all, after all, and FoS is a bit harsh when I don't really suspect that they're scum, but just want more activity.


You don't discourage discussion at all, but you don't want Kage to discuss things. :dizzy2:

This isn't the case at all. I'm not disputing others debating to this extent, but Kagemusha is dead now, for better or worse, and his continuous posting is only encouraging lurkers to do just that. He's raised alot of valid points and contributed alot to discussion... but that doesn't change the fact that other people aren't talking themselves because they probably believe they "don't need to".

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Secura, what does that smilie means you put in the end of every post???

This here >> :3

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Secura, what does that smilie means you put in the end of every post???

This here >> :3

It means "everything I say is scummy".

[Reenk Roink]

Right, because this is totally constructive.

Of course it's not constructive. I'm giving trite replies to trite assertions. By definition it's going to be destructive. But please don't try to equivocate another meaning into constructive (read = good) because your assertions were not good. :yes:

The fact is, the base assumption that I was the one who attacked you drawn from the post I made asking for a vig on you has several problems, the major ones being that:

1) I asked for a group, and the attack was made solo
2) The post was made only a few hours before the deadline (this was unintentional, but I was busy the entire day) which suggests that the attack would be made the next night

Of course, we can't ignore the fact that while there is the counterpoint I presented, it's level of plausibility hovers near around the plausibility of the original point. Neither is a lot more convincing than the other. That's how I like it! :beam:

On Kage, my gut feeling > most kinds of 'evidence' presented in Mafia games, and I strongly believe he was a most benevolent power who was cruelly struck down by you among others. You scolding him sealed the deal.

[Splitpersonality]

I actually like to know how protection groups work.
I understand that if you miss your orders or you miss someones name there it will not carried out or they are not that efficient?
But what if someone attacks person in a protection group that protects someone else? Or is attacking someone?
Also, I don't understand one part in the write-up:

Did he investigated CDf?

I believe that if you don't include the people you are with, or your group does two different targets, or you are missing even one order, the group will fail. You'll likely still be in the writeup if you miss a person (See CDF's attack) or if you don't include all your people (Again could be CDF's case), but I am unsure of what would happen if you select two different targets.

Perhaps CDF's group went after Secura and CDF by accident? Maybe a cross in the wires or someone sent a different order than the rest :shrug:

Speculation at this point, until the groups reveal themselves, in public or private, and if ever, we can just guess.



Secura, what does that smilie means you put in the end of every post???

This here >> :3


It's a cat face

:3

[seireikhaan]

Actually, I'll unvote: beskar and Vote: Secura. You're not making an ounce of sense while you're backpedaling here. Time for bye bye.

[Secura]

Secura, what does that smilie means you put in the end of every post???

It's a face I use alot from when I used to play WoW and on MSN/Facebook and such. It's just a 'cute' face, that's all.


You're not making an ounce of sense while you're backpedaling here.

Mmmmhmmm.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Ouch. I just had that uniform pressed.....

Vigilante justice is just as likely to misfire as not. Those advocating a "chaos" strategy -- just kill as the mood strikes you, hoping this will be disruptive of the mafia -- are (publicly at least) over-estimating the ease of conversions -- research is slow and responses to recruit efforts, even if positive, could take hours/days in our little azynchronous world here. This would only work as a strategy if you believe that the mafia would -- faced with that level of chaos -- forget recruiting efforts in favor of killing while their teams were still intact. Such a focus on killing MIGHT goad them into a mistake....but only at the price of every townie role being subject to slaughter just as readily. I think those calling for this approach are too willing to embrace chaos in a game where chaos and confusion usually favor the mafia -- or a serial killer.

Those advocating the "one leader" strategy may have a point. The level of coordination possible, such as evidenced in Capo III, can weld the townies together as a powerful unit. The difficulty is establishing the bona fides of such a leader -- especially if that leader is subject ot conversion. "Lead for two nights and then be lynched as a safety tool" is probably NOT a consitently good recruiting tool for the leadership cadre either. This approach may work, but would need a good bit of public discussion of how to pick a leader.

Lynching/killing lurkers is a mixed thing at this point. It would be a good way to have a mafia convert "make her bones," but the same does not apply to the town. Waxing the lurkers DOES narrow the field to the actives (while sifting their posts for mistakes and suspect votes) and DOES prevent a total mafia lurk approach.

From the afterlife, it's Seamus signing off for now....

[TinCow]

Of course, we can't ignore the fact that while there is the counterpoint I presented, it's level of plausibility hovers near around the plausibility of the original point. Neither is a lot more convincing than the other. That's how I like it! :beam:

Their weight isn't balanced simply because you say so. IMO, the evidence is stronger that you were the one who attacked her. I'm actually somewhat surprised that you would even both trying to be ambiguous about such a trivial point. You usually don't struggle trying to implement the Reenk Maneuver like you are now.

[Askthepizzaguy]

So it hasnt clarified to you people all ready that if the nature of the game is that mafia can recruit more people, the only way to deal with the situation is to diminish that pool of people by attacking and killing anyone even bit suspicious with vig groups. Just like ATGP suggested.Tincow by taking a stand against vigilante killings you should die next.

Attend the Gay-pride Parade has spoken!!!

[Reenk Roink]

Their weight isn't balanced simply because you say so. IMO, the evidence is stronger that you were the one who attacked her. I'm actually somewhat surprised that you would even both trying to be ambiguous about such a trivial point. You usually don't struggle trying to implement the Reenk Maneuver like you are now.

The point isn't trivial simply because you say so. IMO, the evidence is stronger that the point is of utmost significance. You usually don't struggle in trying to demarcate the the planted Reenk Maneuver to the actual Reenk Maneuver like you are now.

what is a reenk manuver? :huh:

[Subotan]

Secura, what does that smilie means you put in the end of every post???

This here >> :3
Estonia doesn't have cats?


Attend the Gay-pride Parade has spoken!!!
That's the second time Kage has done that.

[Askthepizzaguy]

:laugh4:

Do you guys really think Sigurd would try the same thing twice in a row? Really, honestly, you guys think that? C'mon...

Yeah he was pretty lurky in your recent game too.

Sigurd is a one trick pony. He'll never even show up to refute this very post....

[TinCow]

The point isn't trivial simply because you say so. IMO, the evidence is stronger that the point is of utmost significance. You usually don't struggle in trying to demarcate the the planted Reenk Maneuver to the actual Reenk Maneuver like you are now.

When it takes you multiple lengthy posts to explain why your actions were ambiguous, your actions weren't ambiguous.


what is a reenk manuver? :huh:

Combining ambiguous behavior (see above), humor, and intelligence in the proper ratio to keep the mafia from killing you and the town from lynching you. Simply put, you tend to survive a long time in games because you are entertaining and hard to read.

[Kagemusha]

Attend the Gay-pride Parade has spoken!!!

Well name change wouldnt hurt,eh?:laugh4:

[Thermal]

Whilst Reenk's threat to attack Secura (and continuation with saying he did it) is real, given Tincow's rapid response, it wouldn't surprise me if the two of you were working together.

I like that Secura pointed out how most of the victims were lurkers, if they were to have similar theories as Kage, that would give us a wide birth, personally I think Csargo, who discreetly followed the Atheotes bandwagon last round (after Kage did) then blames Beskar for lying, even though everyone else had established he was lying....An excuse to remove Atheotes in my opinion, there were a lot of excuses that round...

Vote: Csargo