The Shadow Fort [Concluded]

[Crazed Rabbit]

https://img19.imageshack.us/img19/4585/shadowfortress.jpg
_________________________________________________
The sun rose slowly over the mountains.

The old fortress seemed to linger in the pre dawn darkness longer than the ground around it, as though the cold of the winter night gripped tightly to the red stonewalls. Centuries ago, it had been said that the sun was drawn to it, and that it shone like a beacon. It had been built as testament to the engineering skill of the king’s army, to dominate a strategic valley.

Now the importance of its location was as outdated as the walls. No armies marshaled around it as they once had; it served as a waypoint for travelers and a minor outpost.

There was a great enemy to the south, undefeated in open battle. But the border was many miles away, and if that empire managed to march this far, it would roll over this fort. The few cannons on the battlements were no deterrent; they would crumble under the assault of newer, larger artillery.

Or perhaps the enemy would simply ignore it. Only a handful of soldiers garrisoned it, and they would be unable to hold the fort or strike at a passing army.

Only one resource was guarded by the fort; information. What had been roads and lands of strategic importance now held information that had traveled from many parts of Europe. The soldiers of the fortress kept track of all the information that passed through on the tongues of the many travelers.

This had not gone unnoticed by the enemy though. Unable to force armies deep into the lands of his opponent, he instead sent a small team of skilled infiltrators to gain control over the fort.

Hidden among the many travelers who passed through, they easily snuck inside. And on this dawn, they looked to the north and saw great storm clouds moving south. Many sets of eyes saw this. Some smiled under gleaming eyes.

Snow was coming to the fort, snow that would bury the entire earth in a mantle of white. The spies knew that everyone at this fort would awaken to a new world tomorrow, one that was transformed as though God himself changed the nature of the land.

One that no one could escape until the snow melted.
_________________________________________________


Greetings and welcome!

This game was born of my desire for a mafia game with multiple factions. I was inspired by the most recent Capo game, where the FBI and CIA were supposed to root out communists, unconnected from the town.

Alas, they joined up with the town and I was one of those on the sharp end of that stick. This game, therefore, has the main townsperson – mafia battle, along with sub factions striving amongst themselves, and not naturally inclined by way of their characters to join one side or the other.

I also wanted to stop the town from deducing their enemies based on detective results and night actions. So if a townsperson and a Mafioso have killed someone, the detective’s results will be the same.

In the tradition of Capo, this game will feature possible night actions by all players. Starting characters can become new characters after a series of successful night actions.

Finally, what is going on in this game will be deliberately ambiguous in terms of the factions battling each other at night and during the day in terms of lynching.

Basic Mafia Game Guidelines:
Once the game begins, you will be sent a role PM. This will tell you what role you are, and determine your victory conditions, your abilities, etc.
The game will start in the night phase, with only the mafia being able to attack someone that first night. In the day phase right after that, players will vote to lynch whomever they think is guilty. In all successive nights all players will be free to perform night actions. The town will win when the mafia and any other threats have been eliminated. The mafia will win when they outnumber the townspeople and have destroyed any other threats.

Random Night Action Results:
This game also has a new feature, which I hope will greatly enhance the excitement; somewhat random results to night actions. I’ve got a nice spreadsheet full of all possible night actions between different groups. This spreadsheet contains probabilities for the success of night actions.

So, say a group of four people attacks another person. The cell in the spreadsheet will say this for their chances: xx/yy/zz. ‘xx’ is their chance of success, from 0-100, of killing the target. ‘yy’ is the individual chance of being exposed, i.e. named, in the write-up. And finally, ‘zz’ is the individual chance of dying. Random.org will be used to generate numbers to determine the success or failure of all night actions. Yes, even with a full group you can die attacking targets. If a group is very unlucky they can fail to kill the target and all die.

The chances in each of these categories varies depending on who the attacker and who the defender is. The more powerful enemies will be harder to kill and more likely to kill you.

Also, there are cells detailing a group’s chances at defending a target, which say this; xx/yy/zz. ‘xx’ is the chance of successfully defending the target, ‘yy’ is the individual chance of the defenders dying. Generally the chance of defenders dying, even when strong characters attack the one they are defending, is quite low.


Performing Night Actions:
Each role can perform an action in the night. This is accomplished by sending me a PM during the night phase detailing what you want to do, who you want to do it to, and who you want to do it with.
Example:


Tonight I will kill Seamus with Sasaki Kojiro, General Hankerchief, and Tincow.

It is important you and all your confederates correctly state who you are working with and who you are attacking. Failure to do so will result in the night action failing and an increased chance of death. And while the results are somewhat random, detailing your actions will not affect your chances, though you can add some flavor to the write up by detailing how you kill someone.

Conversion:
This game also features conversion, a hybrid between Capo and Pirate Ship mafia. Only certain townspeople are susceptible to conversion. The mafia can investigate people to find out who. They can then give a note (written by them, delivered by me) enticing the townie to join their cause. Doing so will give the townie a chance at a higher victory level. Townies will be unable to betray the mafia, though, as once they have accepted the note the town will need to kill them to win (even if the detective ordered said townie to infiltrate the mafia, by Imperial law in the setting, such people must be killed).
Sub factions can also convert in a similar manner, though the rewards and risks may be different.


Victory Levels:
Victory levels; there will be several levels, ranging from Great Victory to Crushing Defeat, so that even in death townies can ‘score’. However, certain sub-groups can extend requests for help to townies. Should the townies accept and be successful, they will be able to reach a higher victory level and thus a higher ‘score’ than townies who didn’t help. For a townie, accepting such an offer will not necessarily mean betraying the town. It may make you a target of the enemies of that sub-group, though.
Examples of victory levels for townies:

Supreme Victory: Not open to townies at start, only through conversion.

Great Victory: Not open to townies at start, only though conversion.

Victory: The town soundly defeats all of its enemies.

Close Victory: The town narrowly defeats all of its enemies.

Close Defeat: The town is defeated, but kills many enemies.

Defeat: The town is soundly defeated.


Voting:
Of course, it will also include the daily lynching. Day and night periods will alternate. People will choose someone to lynch during the day (with an instant runoff tiebreaker), and send in night actions during the night period. Write ups will be posted between these periods. The mafia wins when it has eliminated…or converted…all the townspeople and anyone else who oppose them. The townspeople win when they have killed the mafia and everyone else who threatens the town. Note that in this game, the enemy of your enemy may also be your enemy as well.

('Borrowed' from GeneralHankerchief)
Voting is your primary action in the day phases. Every day, you will be voting to lynch the person you think is guilty. Voting will be done in the usual style, like so:

Vote: Crazed Rabbit

Should you wish to change your vote, please do the following IN A NEW POST:

Unvote: Crazed Rabbit
Vote: TosaInu

You may also Vote: Abstain should you have no preference as to who is lynched. You may NOT vote “No Lynch”. All votes must be bolded and votes may not be edited. Should you edit your vote and not change it in a new post, you are faced with a lower victory level and potentially, removal from play. The person with the most votes at the end of the day phase is lynched.

Sustained abstaining may will result in your being kicked out of the fortress to die of exposure in the cold.


Roles:
Traveler; Basic townsperson. They were caught in the fort by the snow. They can form groups of four at night to attack or defend targets. Two successes of one type lead to a promotion to Soldier.

Soldier; a more powerful townsperson. They form the garrison. They can form groups of three to attack or defend targets. Three successful attacks leads to a promotion to Warrior, three successful defenses leads to a promotion to Sergeant.

Warrior; A powerful attacker, who can group up with another warrior or attack on his own. For defending people, functions as a soldier.

Sergeant; A powerful defender. Can pick one person to protect by himself each night. For attacking people, functions as a soldier.

Spies; the mafia. They can kill together and also investigate townspeople to find roles and susceptibility to conversion.

Constable; the detective. Can investigate players to learn what they're up to, with subsequent investigations revealing more.

Secret Roles; oh yes, indeed.


Rules on PMs, screenshots, and action after death:
Quoting GeneralHankerchief again;
I am going to quote from Seamus Fermanagh’s rules from Capo II on this one, with a few edits:
The dead may post, but not vote/select nor carry out any night actions. Dead players may not reveal their roles publicly or privately and may not reveal their faction or role particulars either. Dead players may not quote from a PM unless that PM has been posted in the public thread by a living player. Dead players may not reveal, recount or allude to their previous night actions (or results thereof in the case of investigations) publicly or privately – even to confirm a previously made public or private reveal. Your participation must be circumspect, but your continued participation IS encouraged.

No screenshots may be used, from or to anyone, for ANY purpose – this includes during PMs. Feel free to quote from player's PMs to you or to fabricate as you see fit. You may NOT quote my PMs. Chatlog conversations may be referenced/quoted, but may not be copied via screenshot. Note: it can be difficult to maintain role secrecy during chat conversations.

"Suicide" will not be allowed in this game (it is possible to create an unplayable game with nothing but suicide pact challenges going on. This is not the intended mode of play for this game).
Players who must remove themselves from play for schedule reasons should send me a PM. I will then write them out of play.


Adding some Irish Moss;
Most aspects of roles will be revealed on the third morning after a character's death, though certain characters will remain mysterious and actions will not be revealed until after the game is complete. (From Seamus' capo rules)

A final note on ambiguity. All is not as it seems in the Shadow Fort; I may well be, well, "misleading" you on the nature of events in my role PM. This is because the role PM is what your character believes, and this game is set in a time of turbulence of beliefs.

What will not be a lie is the list of those who are dead, for the dead will not return. Victory conditions will be absolute, though, and fulfilling them will grant victory no matter what circumstance.

Sign ups are closed.

Sign Ups so far (42):

Askthepizzaguy
Double A
Centurion1
White_eyes:D
pevergreen
Secura
Thermal Mercury
Diamondeye
Joooray
Sasaki Kojiro
Chaotix
Beskar
Sigurd
Subotan
Myrddraal
GeneralHankerchief
Captain Blackadder
Methos
Psychonaut
Yaropolk
A Very Super Market
Winston Hughes
Jolt
Cultured Drizzt fan
Scienter
Reenk Roink
atheotes
Csargo
Beefy187
TinCow
Yaseikhaan
TheFlax
spL1tp3r50naL1ty
johnhughtom
a completely inoffensive name
Renata
slashandburn
Seamus Fermanagh
Ibn-Khaldun
Seon
Kagemusha
autolycus

Crazed Rabbit

[Subotan]

I guess I have no option but to be locked inside this here Fort.

How many people do you want?

[Centurion1]

In. i daresay im quite ecstatic.

Edit: i loved capo this looks like a worthy follower.

[Crazed Rabbit]

I'm looking for 40 or so players.

A majority of those will be roles other than the basic traveler/townie role.

CR

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Excellent. Hopefully we can get a lot of people to signup. In.

[Double A]

Sweet large game!

Totally in.

[Diamondeye]

This sounds very lovely. Count me in

[Csargo]

:soapbox:

[Secura]

The game looks great, count me in. :3

[Captain Blackadder]

In please

[Beefy187]

In :curtain:

[Diamondeye]

In :curtain:

I love you, Beefy. That smiley is just so you :beam:

[atheotes]

sounds awesome...IN :bow:

[White_eyes:D]

IN...Looks really good:bow:

[naut]

In.

[pevergreen]

:bow:

[Crazed Rabbit]

Good to see people joining! And now you can tell your friends easily with this nifty sig:
https://img189.imageshack.us/img189/9656/shadowfortsig.jpg (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126647-The-Shadow-Fort)

Quote this post to get the code to easily put the picture and link to this thread in your signature!

CR

[GeneralHankerchief]

I missed CR's first game and definitely regretted it. Not letting that happen with this one.

[Methos]

I'm in.

[seireikhaan]

:charge:

[Sigurd]

I want in

[TinCow]

In, with the caveat that I am going out of town on business today and will not be home until March 7th. I will be active on the forums while I am gone, but my rate of activity will be reduced. If the game starts before the 7th, apologies if I am a little quieter than usual.

[Scienter]

I'll play!

[Myrddraal]

Interesting

[Chaotix]

Can't miss this! In.

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

Very interesting, I feel the need to join :tongue:

[Thermal]

(in)

[Joooray]

Looks very interesting indeed. So I'll join. :bow:
Hope you'll get the 40 players you want.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Hmm. Certainty of death, small chance of success.

What am I waiting for?

[Joooray]

Hmm. Certainty of death, small chance of success.

What am I waiting for?

So are the sign-ups for your pro-town-operations open with this and where are the lists?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Oh good god no.

I learned my lesson with Pirate Ship. I'll happily join in activities but I am NOT leading this adventure, certainly not with RE:DF still going on. Also I think that with CR's design of the game, there be a terrible fate in store for anyone who tries to imitate Dictator Pizzaguy of Fatlington.

[A Very Super Market]

In.

[Thermal]

Oh good god no.

I learned my lesson with Pirate Ship. I'll happily join in activities but I am NOT leading this adventure, certainly not with RE:DF still going on. Also I think that with CR's design of the game, there be a terrible fate in store for anyone who tries to imitate Dictator Pizzaguy of Fatlington.

Thinks of choatix's lunar whale & my family guy mafia.... :wink:

[Double A]

Oh good god no.

I learned my lesson with Pirate Ship. I'll happily join in activities but I am NOT leading this adventure, certainly not with RE:DF still going on. Also I think that with CR's design of the game, there be a terrible fate in store for anyone who tries to imitate Dictator Pizzaguy of Fatlington.

*hides detailed plans*

Nothing to see here...

[Askthepizzaguy]

Thinks of choatix's lunar whale & my family guy mafia.... :wink:

I call that valuable experience. Lunar Whale was my first game and I guessed both mafia correctly before I died. Family guy we got 2 baddies and guessed correctly on the third before I lost my nerve and changed it to white eyes. Failures yes, but quite close indeed. And I'm a bit better now than I was then.

Gah! Offtopic.

[Double A]

Now that we're talking about random games, in my first mafia game I was a vig and offed 2 mafiosos on the first 2 nights.

But then Pizza threw a huge WIFOM at me and I ended up killing the wrong guy.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Now that we're talking about random games, in my first mafia game I was a vig and offed 2 mafiosos on the first 2 nights.

But then Pizza threw a huge WIFOM at me and I ended up killing the wrong guy.

Which game was that?

[Secura]

Hmm. Certainty of death, small chance of success.

What am I waiting for?

My AXE!

[Double A]

Which game was that?

Blackadder's Blackadder Mafia on TWC

[Reenk Roink]

Oh what the heck, I'm in CR.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Oh yeah...

My goodness I created an extraordinary amount of bull, even for me, during that game. Do you remember the "full analysis" for every player in the game that was still alive? Took me an hour to write.

When in doubt, be specific, and talk at length. After all, if it's too much work to be a lie, it must be true*

[Splitpersonality]

I enjoy the prospect of this interesting new game, I would like to throw my hat into the arena, if I can.

[Centurion1]

*see my sig* lol you wrote like a paper on me it was possibly my proudest moment, ever.

anyone else remember capo when CR was an actual insane rabbit.

[CCRunner]

I'll join as a reserve player please ~:)

[White_eyes:D]

*see my sig* lol you wrote like a paper on me it was possibly my proudest moment, ever.

anyone else remember capo when CR was an actual insane rabbit.
I was the only one to not think it was a Red herring....:laugh:(Mostly because CR was too quiet about it:inquisitive:)

Need to give CR props for having the "stones" to keep going even with such a huge clue by the host:laugh4:

[Askthepizzaguy]

That was absolutely terrible. :laugh4:

I was proud though that we have a gameroom filled with players who will ignore such a gift from the host and attempt to win on their own merits.

[Double A]

Yeah, speak for your self. I didn't even know CR was a member till Pirate Ship (although I probably wouldn't have made the connection even then)

[Askthepizzaguy]

I'm kidding of course. It never even entered my mind that the crazed rabbit was the Crazed Rabbit.

[pevergreen]

Oh what the heck, I'm in CR.

Are we back?

[Jolt]

In.

[Yaropolk]

Count me in

[TheFlax]

Hmmm...


In :curtain:

Oh! Beefy's here! IN! :clown:

[Winston Hughes]

Alright, I'll sign up for cannon-fodder duty again.

[Beskar]

In.

[Centurion1]

no i remember when we were in qt after his first kill. and i was like really........... i couldnt believe no one mentioned it.

[White_eyes:D]

no i remember when we were in qt after his first kill. and i was like really........... i couldnt believe no one mentioned it.I was really wondering why CR didn't say "I have been framed!!"...That was how he got under my radar....(I wasted my one investigation on him) Pizzaguy kept thinking it was a "Red herring"...I was pretty determined to prove him wrong:evil: but that was what set pizzaguy up with all the "Incorruptible townies":laugh4:

[Centurion1]

good times capo was good time,s i love that organized chaos feeling. more people sign up.

[Crazed Rabbit]

I was really wondering why CR didn't say "I have been framed!!"...That was how he got under my radar....(I wasted my one investigation on him) Pizzaguy kept thinking it was a "Red herring"...I was pretty determined to prove him wrong:evil: but that was what set pizzaguy up with all the "Incorruptible townies":laugh4:

Well no one was mentioning it, and therefore I saw no reason to bring it up.

Anyways, we've now got 33 people signed up! Let's try to get 10+ more people signed up, so round up your friends!

You can also use the spiffy signature I devised!
:eyebrows:
CR

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I think the recruitment mechanic from this one could be a nice balance between the capo style and the pirate ship mafia style. We'll see.

[johnhughthom]

Count me in.

[a completely inoffensive name]

I'm in.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Gah! This game looks very promising. But I just don't have the time to play large mafia games. Alas.
It's not just the time - I lay awake at night, thinking about the game, get paranoid in real life, start sending secret notes to real life friends asking them what they make of mutual friends, that sort of stuff.
Pirate mafia filled my quota for this year.

Good luck to all players, and to the game's captain!

[Renata]

I'm in.

[Centurion1]

no we need your french finesse Louis and who said obsession is a bad thing it is merely passion as a Frenchman you should understand.

[Secura]

I lay awake at night, thinking about the game, get paranoid in real life, start sending secret notes to real life friends asking them what they make of mutual friends, that sort of stuff.

If you get that immersed in a game, it's a true testiment to the host's ability to write a good story. :3

[Subotan]

Well, Pirate Ship Mafia had an excellent story, one that was most improved by four angels of death :devilish:

[slashandburn]

Gaurinteed townie.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

In, please.

[Centurion1]

Well, Pirate Ship Mafia had an excellent story, one that was most improved by four angels of death

you still did plenty of damage dont worry.

[Double A]

I liked the ending. I was first mate for a round and got a mention in the write up, even though I posted the most scummy thing ever in the thread (which was a true conversation actually, in case Louis is reading this post)

[Centurion1]

^ were you an investigator too?

[Double A]

No I was a vanilla townie, but I posted a really scummy conversation with an unconfirmed dead Maven type person asking if I would want to join the crew. I posted it to show he was scummy, but Louis took it like I was trying to gain the town's trust.

[Centurion1]

lol Louis was so designed for that game a french pirate i mean come on yah gotta love it.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Oh well..
Might as well try this..
So, count me IN!

[Double A]

Ha now we can take revenge on Ibn for having a real life!

vote: Ibn

[Csargo]

One more person to reach 40

[Seon]

Csargo says in.

Csargo's former nickname is Ichigo.

One of my schoolmate's nickname is Ichigo (serious)

Therefore I am in :p

[Csargo]

haha

[Kagemusha]

Sounds interesting. Im in. (Thanks for the tip Ichi...errr Czar..something).:2thumbsup:

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Ha now we can take revenge on Ibn for having a real life!

vote: Ibn

I'll remember this if you should join my WWI game :brood:

[Csargo]

nvm

[Double A]

I'll remember this if you should join my WWI game :brood:

Cool will I get a prize? Can I be the Ottomans again?

[johnhughthom]

Cool will I get a prize? Can I be the Ottomans again?

As I-Ks helper monkey I also intend to make your life hell.

We nearly ready to go CR? I'm looking forward to this one, looks like you put a lot of thought into it.

[Double A]

Shut up baldy, no one asked you.

:tongue:

[johnhughthom]

Once again the sheer power of the intelligence behind your retort has rendered me speechless. I shall take the lesson never to argue with such a wordsmith.

[Double A]

Again, :bow:

[Askthepizzaguy]

When I become mafia this game, as is inevitable, I will murder both of you first. :tongue2:

[johnhughthom]

Hah, you will have forgotten all about our childish spat as you drown under the inevitable deluge of first round investigations, roleblocks, kill attempts, protections and whatever else people do in mafia games.

[pevergreen]

Sounds interesting. Im in. (Thanks for the tip Ichi...errr Czar..something).:2thumbsup:

Thank goodness that the curse of Kage was broken. :tongue:

(right? Or did I just dream it.)

[Askthepizzaguy]

@ Johnhughthom

Yes I will. But this time, I have a plan:

1. I will change my name and avatar to match Csargo, and I will pay Csargo to change his name to Askthepizzaguy.
2. I will pay the game host to make sure that all orders to investigate Askthepizzaguy instead go to my doppelganger.
3. If you investigate "Csargo" instead, and find me guilty, it is my hope that you will lynch "Askthepizzaguy" who is in fact Csargo.
4. I will then lurk to victoly.

[johnhughthom]

Makes a note of Pizza and Csargo's post counts.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Asks TosaInu to wipe my post count

Note to self: Switch back to Askthepizzaguy if it looks like "Csargo" will get lynched. Can't be too careful.

[Double A]

vote: Csaskthepizzargo

[Crazed Rabbit]

Okay, we've currently got 41 players, which should make for a nice game.

Sign ups will close in 12 hours and 45 minutes (Or 8am PST). Between then and now I'm going to make final preparations. After that I'll get the game started and we'll be off!

Edit: ATPG, you're on if I get $1000.

CR

[Myrddraal]

I seem to remember that Ichigo was originally the Csar. My respects to the Godfather :bow:

[autolycus]

I don't think I can resist. count me in. Or on a replacement list, since I think I'm fifteen minutes too late to be in.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Edit: ATPG, you're on if I get $1000.

CR

I'll give you 1,000 scumpoints.

Scumpoints are redeemable if you've been caught as mafia and you want to bribe me to do something, like accuse someone else, randomly switch my vote, or vote for a specific person.

Accusation: 50 scumpoints
Random vote switch: 100 scumpoints
Specific vote switch: 200 scumpoints

Also, I won't ever mention the transaction for an extra 50 scumpoints. I'll not vote for you for the rest of the game for 500 scumpoints.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Let's cut down the spam, please.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Okay, sign ups are closed.

I'll let autolycus in, though he was 15 minutes late, only because Bruce Campbell is awesome.

So, the list will be put together, roles will be determined, PMs will go out, and the game will begin in the day phase with a lynch vote (no-lynch votes will be an option).

CR

[Ibn-Khaldun]

I'll let autolycus in, though he was 15 minutes late, only because Bruce Campbell is awesome.


Oh.. this reminds me Xena...

Good times.. good times :tongue:

[Crazed Rabbit]

Roles have been determined, and now PMs are going to start going out.

CR

[Crazed Rabbit]

The Shadow Fort

Gerard, the commander of this fort, had seen many winters in these mountains. Most of the days were bitter - cold, short, with heavy snow everywhere. Dirt became mixed into the snow. Uncaring travelers came and went, oblivious to the hardships and labor of his soldiers. Steadfastly he gazed from the small window in his chambers to the vast expanse of mountainside.

In winter he saw the coldness of humanity laid bare. It only took a change in temperature and season for man to stop caring about others, to give an extra shove moving through the market, to look away from the wagon stranded in frozen mud.

"Do you think I am too cynical?" he asked.

"No - at least, not more cynical than most", replied Hans, his trusted lieutenant.

Gerard sighed, lowering his gaze from the new layer of snow to the letter in his hand. Overnight a great snow storm had passed through. What had been a mixture of snow, dirt, muck, and dead plants was now a gentle white. He had once felt joy at such a sight. Now he only became more bitter.

"Perhaps it is this letter," Gerard said, solemnly.

"Ah, the one from the royal court - what's it say?"

"There are Turkish spies in our fort. At least, the generals seem as sure of this as anything else."

"That is troubling. What will you do?"

"We have to eliminate the spies quickly, so I'm going to encourage everyone in this fort to select someone to be executed until we've found them all."

"Why not just have your troops just arrest everyone?"

"I - well, the problem is that the barracks records have been misplaced, or stolen, or never written down in the first place."

"Well that's convenient."

"A list was never needed until now - and with all the new transfers, I hardly recognize anyone. Plus, since all the travelers have swords these days and everyone's wearing heavy coats against the cold, all the people look alike."

"That is really damned convenient."

"Thanks for your magnificent insight, Hans."

"You can't really blame me, remember."

Gerard was motionless for a moment, then nodded and looked back out to the snow. After a long time, he spoke again;

"Well, time to catch some Turks then."

With that, Gerard strode out to the lower court to make the announcement. Hans stayed behind, first watching Gerard leave, then silently turning to look at the snow.


**************************************************************************************

Being told that you are going to make up a mob who will decide to execute people based on suspicion is not something most Austrians were used to hearing. Or, for that matter, any of the other nationalities listening. Even the spies themselves were a bit surprised. Usually no one started hanging people until they had killed someone. They almost felt taken advantage of. It was 1610; four years since the war had ended. Surely paranoia didn't run this deep?

But the commander was adamant, and so the travelers and others began looking around them. They had come to this fort to rest as they traveled. It was a safe haven, where they could sleep in a bed that wasn't freezing and eat somewhat warm food. Many looked up at the stone fort they were in and no longer saw protective fortifications, but stone prison walls. The people assembled were normal men, or women, and expected certain things out of life. One prominent thing that popped to mind was not having an angry mob condemn you to death when you've done nothing worth execution in your life. A couple people felt cheated - they had done good to avoid execution, and now they faced being lynched without being able to reap any ill-got gains from wrongdoing! Perhaps that gypsy - and here we are talking about one traveler in particular - really did make good on her threat to curse him for knocking her soup into the fire for spite.

All realized now that somewhere in that crowd were some spies who wanted to kill them. This filled many with great fear. It is fortunate for those people they did not know the true extent of their situation.


The Game Has Begun.

Vote now to lynch those you believe to be Turkish spies. Remember to bold your votes, and do not edit posts with votes in them. No lynch votes will be possible, and a no lynch result is possible.

The day phase will end 24 hours from now (11 pm PST, March 10). Feel free to PM me with any questions.

[Beefy187]

Vote: Ibn-Khaldun

To test my theory.

[Csargo]

Vote:Sasaki

Theory?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Appoint:TinCow

I suggest that instead of voting this round, we appoint someone as a day 1 leader. They decide who to lynch and then we all vote that person. Day 1's that start with an election usually go faster than one's that start with a lynch.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Also, a note on forming groups.

Four travelers can form a group and attack or defend someone.

Three soldiers can do the same.

Two warriors can form a group to attack someone.

In all these cases, someone of higher (Warrior is higher than soldier is higher than traveler) rank can join a group of lower ranked people and substitute for a lower ranked player.

So, a soldier could join a group of three travelers so there would be four people total. The soldier is substituting for a traveler. The group would still function as a traveler group (i.e. not as well as a soldier group). A warrior could also join a group of two soldiers to form a soldier group.

Any questions?

CR

[Askthepizzaguy]

I suggest that instead of voting this round, we appoint someone as a day 1 leader. They decide who to lynch and then we all vote that person.

Why would we want to lynch the person we just appointed? :wiseguy:


Day 1's that start with an election usually go faster than one's that start with a lynch.

*checks watch* Nope, still the same amount of time. :wiseguy:

[/wiseguy]

[Askthepizzaguy]

And here we go with the no edits... vote: Methos based on the infallible eeny meeny miney moe method. Also, method sounds like Methos. So that's two reasons.

[Winston Hughes]

I'm gonna get in quick and vote: johnhughthom before he has a chance to vote for me.

[Subotan]

Vote:Beefy
I am so predictable.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Beefy and what theory would that be?

Since it's the first day I .. Vote: Sasaki Kojiro

[Kagemusha]

Throwing suspicion towards Beefy and then launching a seemingly harmless Sasaki bandwagon. Your action seems t me like a standard mafia behaviour, so Vote: Ibn-Khaldun

[Beefy187]

1.Mafia are the most eager one to play the game.
So desperate to play that he posts before the starting write up.

2. By doing that vote with a strange reason, at least 3 player will post how confused they are.

3. And at least one player will vote me for it.

Thats right. Your all so predictable :curtain:

[Beskar]

Beefy is my lord and master.

vote: Ibn-Khaldun

[Subotan]

1.Mafia are the most eager one to play the game.
So desperate to play that he posts before the starting write up.

2. By doing that vote with a strange reason, at least 3 player will post how confused they are.

3. And at least one player will vote me for it.

Thats right. Your all so predictable :curtain:
I voted for you because I make a point in every game I play to vote for the person who casts the first vote, just to stir up conversation and get the ball rolling.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

1.Mafia are the most eager one to play the game.
So desperate to play that he posts before the starting write up.

2. By doing that vote with a strange reason, at least 3 player will post how confused they are.

3. And at least one player will vote me for it.

Thats right. Your all so predictable :curtain:

1. I made a post 5 hours before CR stated that he had sent his role pm's.
So, this hardly shows anything.

2. Umm, this is the first round. Unless you know exactly who the mafia is you pick a random person who you vote. At least I do it. Have done in previous games and will do it in future.

[Beefy187]

Don't over react to anything said on round 1 Ibn. I'm just joking.
I'm for Sasakis plan, but all players should say something at least once before doing that.

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

Vote: No lynch?

Thats allowed right? I'll look later, when I have time.

[Captain Blackadder]

random vote double a

[Joooray]

I heard that no lynch is frowned upon (also it stirs hefty discussions), so I guess a random Vote: Psychonaut is in place.

[Jolt]

No info? No Lynch.


Vote: No Lynch

[Secura]

vote: A Very Super Market.

Random.org is my friend.

[Subotan]

No lynch is a bad idea. Although in mini mafia games where every townie counts no lynch is preferable, both the ratio of townies to mafia and the sheer amount of townies means that we can afford to take a few losses to get a chance of hitting a scum. Besides, it's easier than you think to hit scum in the first round. Scum have no manufactured alibis to hide behind at this point, and scummy behaviour, such as getting prissy over a random vote can help pick out scum, as shown in YLC'S "That Creeping Darkness" where ACIN the SK got snuffed on the first round. And if we do hit a town wth the random lynch, it's likely that scum will try to bandwagon the poor guy, giving us data we can analyse later.

[Seon]

Random votage?

Vote: autolycus

Hooray for Random.org :D

[Renata]

I heard that no lynch is frowned upon (also it stirs hefty discussions), so I guess a random Vote: Psychonaut is in place.

vote: Joooray

Too self-conscious.

[TinCow]

Appoint:TinCow

I suggest that instead of voting this round, we appoint someone as a day 1 leader. They decide who to lynch and then we all vote that person. Day 1's that start with an election usually go faster than one's that start with a lynch.

An interesting mechanic you're proposing. It would certainly give interesting insight into the person appointed. However, I fear that it is simply unworkable without official (read: CR) saction and thus is not worth the effort to explore. I am curious why you would want me in such a position though, as I believe I have demonstrated numerous times that I am relatively inept when it comes to IDing mafioso. Please do elaborate.

As for the vote, I am going to

Vote: No Lynch

I could not disagree more with those who say No Lynch is a bad idea. I have never known a mafioso to be caught on the first day, for numerous reasons. Remember that this isn't just a choice between a potential sacrifice of a townie in exchange for a potential death of a mafioso: it's also a potential sacrifice of a pro-town role. Imagine how Midgard 2 might have turned out if CA hadn't been lynched on Day 1.

[Jolt]

Actually No Lynch was pretty helpful in the first round of Rubicon. Killing randomly, however, is most of the times a bad idea.

[Yaropolk]

Vote: Scienter

... sounds too much like Science and we don't like that :daisy: in the 17th century!

[pevergreen]

Vote: Beskar

Some ruse about a land war in asia.

[Subotan]

An interesting mechanic you're proposing. It would certainly give interesting insight into the person appointed. However, I fear that it is simply unworkable without official (read: CR) saction and thus is not worth the effort to explore. I am curious why you would want me in such a position though, as I believe I have demonstrated numerous times that I am relatively inept when it comes to IDing mafioso. Please do elaborate.

I wouldn't support it unless there was a mechanism to remove said leader, in case he was a mafioso.


Remember that this isn't just a choice between a potential sacrifice of a townie in exchange for a potential death of a mafioso: it's also a potential sacrifice of a pro-town role. Imagine how Midgard 2 might have turned out if CA hadn't been lynched on Day 1
That's exactly the same situation with every other lynch. We can't just sit back and wait for everyone to reveal their roles.

I could not disagree more with those who say No Lynch is a bad idea. I have never known a mafioso to be caught on the first day, for numerous reasons..
I gave you an example of ACIN being lynched in YLC's That Creeping Darkness.


Actually No Lynch was pretty helpful in the first round of Rubicon. Killing randomly, however, is most of the times a bad idea.
Did I say kill randomly? Sure, our evidence on any particular player will most likely be thin, but it's almost always thin when you play mafia. Of course, we could all decide that instead of playing mafia, we're going to play "Let's wait for the investigation results to come back in".

[White_eyes:D]

Vote:Jolt for even suggesting that we go for a "No Lynch" just because of a previous game where town barely won:stare:

[atheotes]

Voting:
Of course, it will also include the daily lynching. Day and night periods will alternate. People will choose someone to lynch during the day (with an instant runoff tiebreaker), and send in night actions during the night period. Write ups will be posted between these periods. The mafia wins when it has eliminated…or converted…all the townspeople and anyone else who oppose them. The townspeople win when they have killed the mafia and everyone else who threatens the town. Note that in this game, the enemy of your enemy may also be your enemy as well.

('Borrowed' from GeneralHankerchief)
Voting is your primary action in the day phases. Every day, you will be voting to lynch the person you think is guilty. Voting will be done in the usual style, like so:

Vote: Crazed Rabbit

Should you wish to change your vote, please do the following IN A NEW POST:

Unvote: Crazed Rabbit
Vote: TosaInu

You may also Vote: Abstain should you have no preference as to who is lynched. You may NOT vote “No Lynch”. All votes must be bolded and votes may not be edited. Should you edit your vote and not change it in a new post, you are faced with a lower victory level and potentially, removal from play. The person with the most votes at the end of the day phase is lynched.

Sustained abstaining may will result in your being kicked out of the fortress to die of exposure in the cold.




FOS all the No Lynch voters - particularly Tincow (as far as i know you are more thorough than this) and CDF (the adjoining statment you made)

Vote: CDF - coin-flip between the two

[Renata]

Vote Atheotes for actually reading the rules. Scummy!

(Kidding.)

[TinCow]

FOS all the No Lynch voters - particularly Tincow (as far as i know you are more thorough than this) and CDF (the adjoining statment you made)

Vote: CDF - coin-flip between the two

CR has altered a few rules since the OP. Most noticeably, the game hasn't started with a night phase and No Lynch is allowed:


Okay, sign ups are closed.

I'll let autolycus in, though he was 15 minutes late, only because Bruce Campbell is awesome.

So, the list will be put together, roles will be determined, PMs will go out, and the game will begin in the day phase with a lynch vote (no-lynch votes will be an option).

CR

[Subotan]

Wait, I'm confused. CR, can we have some clarification on whether No Lynch is allowed?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

1. I made a post 5 hours before CR stated that he had sent his role pm's.
So, this hardly shows anything.

2. Umm, this is the first round. Unless you know exactly who the mafia is you pick a random person who you vote. At least I do it. Have done in previous games and will do it in future.

Vote:Ibn-Khaldun

Slightly scummy here.


Remember that this isn't just a choice between a potential sacrifice of a townie in exchange for a potential death of a mafioso: it's also a potential sacrifice of a pro-town role.

The pro-town role can claim to be so, and we can switch the bandwagon around if need be.

[TinCow]

The pro-town role can claim to be so, and we can switch the bandwagon around if need be.

Heh, given my recent mafia game history I guess you've nailed me on that point. I will consider lodging a vote after some more discussion has occurred. :bow:

I'm still curious why you wanted me for your 'appointment' system though...

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Heh, given my recent mafia game history I guess you've nailed me on that point. I will consider lodging a vote after some more discussion has occurred. :bow:

I'm still curious why you wanted me for your 'appointment' system though...

I just picked someone respectable, who would probably show up. Mostly I wanted to see what people would say about it.

[White_eyes:D]

Why not just suggest yourself? testing the waters?:inquisitive:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Why not just suggest yourself? testing the waters?:inquisitive:

White eyes, I recieve a rather odd pm from you where you confessed to being mafia. Here, let me quote it:

:bounce:

[autolycus]

Vote: Reenk Roink He hasn't shown up yet, and he seems to be a player who confuses the innocents whether he's good or bad.

[White_eyes:D]

Yeah, that worked out REAL well in "Riftwar".....Lynched a fellow Pro-town and lost the game:stare:

Sasaki's sixth sense lost out there:laugh4:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Yeah, that worked out REAL well in "Riftwar".....Lynched a fellow Pro-town and lost the game:stare:

Sasaki's sixth sense lost out there:laugh4:

Are you sure you don't want to role claim? It might be the safe move considering the huge amount of pressure on you at the moment... ;)

[White_eyes:D]

Are you sure you don't want to role claim? It might be the safe move considering the huge amount of pressure on you at the moment... ;) Laugh it up....:embarassed:
I make an :daisy: of myself and you somehow feel you won with that...:furious3:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Laugh it up....:embarassed:
I make an :daisy: of myself and you somehow feel you won with that...:furious3:

naw :(

It's just funny in retrospect, like you getting me lynched on suspicion of being gasmask in TCD, and I turned out to be his mafia partner.

[Renata]

I still don't know how that happened exactly. But hey, mafia is mafia.

[Kagemusha]

Just basic first round of a mafia game. Some random barking at the thread and everything major happends behind the curtains.:yes:

[Askthepizzaguy]

everything major happends behind the curtains.:yes:

Then it seems Beefy has already won. :curtain:

[Diamondeye]

random Vote: Winston Hughes

That's what you get for getting me killed in the LOTR game, grumble grumble grumble

[Kagemusha]

Could be so.:juggle2::smug:

[seireikhaan]

Vote: Ibn-Khaldun

Scummiest person I've seen thus far.

[Jolt]

Vote:Jolt for even suggesting that we go for a "No Lynch" just because of a previous game where town barely won:stare:

Barely won? :laugh2:

If anything the last rounds showed town was very much in control, but that was another game, so I'll digress?

[Winston Hughes]

That's what you get for getting me killed in the LOTR game, grumble grumble grumble

The way you say that almost makes it sound like an accident, rather than the cold-blooded manipulation that it actually was. :grin:

[GeneralHankerchief]

Vote: Renata

[Reenk Roink]

Vote: Reenk Roink He hasn't shown up yet, and he seems to be a player who confuses the innocents whether he's good or bad.

Vote: autolycus

Big mistake. :stare:

[atheotes]

CR has altered a few rules since the OP. Most noticeably, the game hasn't started with a night phase and No Lynch is allowed:

oops... atleast i was right about you :beam:
random.org then
unvote, vote: TheFlax

[Crazed Rabbit]

Whoops!

Sorry about that. Yes, no lynch votes are allowed.

Also, you can appoint any leaders you want, but I won't count votes or enforce anything.

CR

[johnhughthom]

Tally:

I-K: 5 (Beefy, Kage, Beskie, Sasaki, Khaan)
No lynch: 3 (CDf, Jolt, TC)
Sasaki: 2 (Csargo, I-K)
Auto: 2 (Seon, Reenk)
Beskar: 1 (pever)
Winston H: 1 (Diamondeye)
Psycho: 1 (Jooray)
Methos: 1 (Atpg)
AVSM: 1 (Secura)
jht: 1 (Winston)
Joooray: 1 (Renata)
Beefy: 1 (Subo)
Scienter: 1 (Yaro)
AA: 1 (Cpt B)
Jolt: 1 (White_eyes)
Reenk: 1 (Auto)
Renata: 1 (GH)
TheFlax: 1 (atheotes)

[Thermal]

Personally, for what little its worth, I believe the 'elect a leader' policy to be fairly fruitless, putting all responsibility onto one person when 42 are playing is about as biased as it gets. Should a mafia aligned player get elected the lynch is going to give us a bad start, should a town aligned player get elected its still a stab in the dark. CB hasn't integrated that system and I don't see the benefits regardless of this.



I will, this once, suggest no lynch, to follow through with Tincow's words, as mafia are almost never lynched on the first day. This should also ease up on Ibn, no reason to bandwagon him for what seem to be fairly miscellaneous votes.


Vote: No Lynch

[Subotan]

Thanks JH.

Unvote:Beefy; Vote:Thermal Mercury

For continuing to vote for a No Lynch even after an FoS and various explanations as to why that sucks, and also for writing in red.

[White_eyes:D]

Barely won? :laugh2:

If anything the last rounds showed town was very much in control, but that was another game, so I'll digress?
Compared to Capo 3 and Pirate ship Mafia it was on a knifes edge:sweatdrop:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Thanks JH.

Unvote:Beefy; Vote:Thermal Mercury

For continuing to vote for a No Lynch even after an FoS and various explanations as to why that sucks, and also for writing in red.

That's not suspicious though.

[Thermal]

Thanks JH.

Unvote:Beefy; Vote:Thermal Mercury

For continuing to vote for a No Lynch even after an FoS and various explanations as to why that sucks

Various Explanations? Perhaps you could list them for me, because the only explanations I've seen are posted by you, various explanations by one person hardly counts, in my book, so to address your no lynch hate.




Besides, it's easier than you think to hit scum in the first round. Scum have no manufactured alibis to hide behind at this point, and scummy behaviour, such as getting prissy over a random vote can help pick out scum, as shown in YLC'S "That Creeping Darkness" where ACIN the SK got snuffed on the first round. And if we do hit a town wth the random lynch, it's likely that scum will try to bandwagon the poor guy, giving us data we can analyse later.



'Besides, it's easier than you think to hit scum in the first round.'

Quite nice of you to tell us this, unfortunately it isn't backed up with any statistics.

'Scum have no manufactured alibis to hide behind at this point, and scummy behaviour, such as getting prissy over a random vote can help pick out scum'

Town don't have any manufactured alibi's either. I don't believe mafia are as predictable as you describe, plus if you really wanted to vote for somewhat more on edge players I would have thought you'd back up your theory and vote for Ibn, instead you vote for beefy, voting for random players instead of suspicious ones (or 'prissy ones') is more productive how?.

'if we do hit a town wth the random lynch, it's likely that scum will try to bandwagon the poor guy, giving us data we can analyse later.'

If a player is getting bandwagonned, why should a mafia aligned player want to add to a wagon that has its fate sealed, unless mafia themselves are directly in the spotlight it just adds unnecessary attention to yourself.



So, overall, I have voted no lynch because after reading your 'various' explanations, nothing you say holds up, I now hold my no lynch vote with pride. I also find it curious as to why you vote for me over the other people who chose no lynch, fairly scummy, to be honest.

[Diamondeye]

The way you say that almost makes it sound like an accident, rather than the cold-blooded manipulation that it actually was. :grin:

Yeah well it was an accident to call in the kill on me because I wasn't a baddie and neither were you.

Also, it should be a pretty good hint that someone's innocent when a mafia volounteers to kill the person, right? :beam:

I'll try to focus on this game, though, and not get caught in old rivalries :laugh4:

[TheFlax]

Vote: Beefy... with love :kiss:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

What do you think about Ibn, Thermal? Since your no lynch vote could be a move to save him.

[Thermal]

What do you think about Ibn, Thermal? Since your no lynch vote could be a move to save him.

I think Ibn has gone in a bit head first, so to speak, its his first mafia game in a while and just feel hes adjusting more than covering a scummy persona. He wasn't throwing suspicion at Beefy as Kage says, but more asking why he received the first vote of the day. His 2nd vote on you does look scummy, I don't really have any explanation fro another persons actions though overall as mentioned at the start, think hes just adjusting.

Whilst trying to avoid WIFOM, I'm not too fussed about the result we get today, just simply giving my reason for my no lynch vote. :bow:

[Methos]

Vote: autolycus

Big mistake. :stare:

First day and you're already accusing someone who accused you? Talk about scummy!

Vote: Reenk Roink

[Reenk Roink]

First day and you're already accusing someone who accused you? Talk about scummy!

Vote: Reenk Roink

Where'd you get the dumb idea that retaliation voting is scummy? :rolleyes:

It's play like yours perpetuating bad cliches which makes Mafia so boring at times... :no: You're next by the way.

[Subotan]

Quite nice of you to tell us this, unfortunately it isn't backed up with any statistics.
Why do I have to repeatedly tell people of the example of ACIN being lynched in YLC's Large Mafia game? Am I typing in invisible ink?



If a player is getting bandwagonned, why should a mafia aligned player want to add to a wagon that has its fate sealed, unless mafia themselves are directly in the spotlight it just adds unnecessary attention to yourself.

So you're saying it's not scummy to bandwagon? :inquisitive:




So, overall, I have voted no lynch because after reading your 'various' explanations, nothing you say holds up, I now hold my no lynch vote with pride.

It isn't, for several reasons.

One, Ibn was most likely following Rule #1 (Sasaki is always guilty), and possibly got the times mixed up (Although if he does it again, hang him high).

Two, you voted No Lynch after the FoS, and I'm willing to give the people who voted prior to it the benefit of the doubt (In that they may not have checked their comps after the FoS).

Third, you claim that "Nothing I say adds up", when all you've typed in response to my points are logical fallacies or bad mafia playing.

Fourth, No Lynches are BORING. I hate hate hate hate mafia games that turn into "I say, why don't we just sit back and relax whilst waiting for the investigation results to come back in". There's no fun in that, and I'm playing to enjoy it.

[Double A]

Vote:Beefy
I am so predictable.

Good thing you unvoted, ONLY I'M ALLOWED TO VOTE FOR BEEFY D1!

Vote:Ibn-Khaldun

Slightly scummy here.



The pro-town role can claim to be so, and we can switch the bandwagon around if need be.

I think this is his first game dude.


Then it seems Beefy has already won. :curtain:

Hi Be... wait, what? You aren't Beefy!

vote: ATPG for impersonating Beefy.

[Myrddraal]

I'm not at all convinced by these arguments that No Lynch is a good thing. Votes are at their most random in the first round, when nobody knows anything and the voting blocks are still small. It seems to me that at worst a first round lynch is random, so at least it's not a result of mafia manipulations, and it prompts discussion, it provokes responses.

So anyway:

Vote: Sasaki

- Rule #1. (Sometimes it's just a theory, but when you can choose to become guilty, it's established fact)

[Methos]

It's play like yours perpetuating bad cliches which makes Mafia so boring at times... :no: You're next by the way.

Wow, two accusations against you and you already admit to being mafia? I apologize that I've made being mafia in this game so boring. And since I'm going to be gone this weekend, I don't mind that you've just stated you're going to kill me tonight.

[White_eyes:D]

Where'd you get the dumb idea that retaliation voting is scummy? :rolleyes:

It's play like yours perpetuating bad cliches which makes Mafia so boring at times... :no: You're next by the way.
Unvote:Jolt Vote:Methos

Reenk always does retaliation voting...:shrug: Reenk, your always good for the WIFOM, I missed you:love:

[Double A]

I'm not at all convinced by these arguments that No Lynch is a good thing. Votes are at their most random in the first round, when nobody knows anything and the voting blocks are still small. It seems to me that at worst a first round lynch is random, so at least it's not a result of mafia manipulations, and it prompts discussion, it provokes responses.

I got lynched for saying that random D1 lynches are bad on mafiascum. TWICE.

[TinCow]

Two, you voted No Lynch after the FoS, and I'm willing to give the people who voted prior to it the benefit of the doubt (In that they may not have checked their comps after the FoS).

Interesting. I wasn't aware that a single person posting "FoS" on the basis of their own rule misinterpretation instantly made all people named in that FoS scummy. I will do my best in the future to obey every single FoS I see to the letter.


Fourth, No Lynches are BORING. I hate hate hate hate mafia games that turn into "I say, why don't we just sit back and relax whilst waiting for the investigation results to come back in". There's no fun in that, and I'm playing to enjoy it.

Odd, it seems to me that the No Lynch votes have resulted in more in-depth discussion and analysis than anything else so far in this game. I must be confused... Reenk, please tell me what to do because clearly I am playing this game wrong. :help:

[Methos]

Unvote:Jolt Vote:Methos

Lol! So what, you figure since you can't take me out in the d20 game then you can get your revenge here?

[White_eyes:D]

Lol! So what, you figure since you can't take me out in the d20 game then you can get your revenge here?
Sure, why not?:laugh4:

[Subotan]

Interesting. I wasn't aware that a single person posting "FoS" on the basis of their own rule misinterpretation instantly made all people named in that FoS scummy. I will do my best in the future to obey every single FoS I see to the letter.
:brood: It was more than just an FoS. Several people had raised their concerns about No Lynch, and his reasoning as a whole is flawed.


Odd, it seems to me that the No Lynch votes have resulted in more in-depth discussion and analysis than anything else so far in this game.
Because nothing else has happened so far in the game, there is nothing else to talk about. What, are we all going to talk about the tomorrow's investigation results tonight?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Why not?

Tomorrow I got a guilty on khaan.

[johnhughthom]

I can't see anybody overly suspicious so i'm going with my traditional Vote: Winston Hughes

[Sasaki Kojiro]

fos:john

[Thermal]

Sighs* :brood:

'Why do I have to repeatedly tell people of the example of ACIN being lynched in YLC's Large Mafia game? Am I typing in invisible ink? So you're saying it's not scummy to bandwagon?'

I repeat, the statistics don't back this up, you give us one example of a mafia being lynched on day one out of hundreds of games, and see to find it infallible.

'One, Ibn was most likely following Rule #1 (Sasaki is always guilty), and possibly got the times mixed up (Although if he does it again, hang him high).'

Right....well, should this be the case (not all that convincing though...), I assume Beefy was a random vote, which leads back to my points, without using your ideas of catching mafia out by seeing if they bandwagon and respond to being voted (Beefy did neither), how is your vote constructive? You preach certain things to look out for yet your votes speak in a different frequency.

'Two, you voted No Lynch after the FoS, and I'm willing to give the people who voted prior to it the benefit of the doubt (In that they may not have checked their comps after the FoS).'

Since when has Atheotes word been final? If I FoS'd you for voting for me, would you lift the vote? I think not, in the same way I won't unvote my no lynch just because one guy said so without giving good reasoning for it.

'Third, you claim that "Nothing I say adds up", when all you've typed in response to my points are logical fallacies or bad mafia playing.'

Well if I should believe a logically flawed statement that only shows up bad mafia players then I would be fairly insane. Underestimating our opponents cannot be of any use, by creating stereotypical mafia behaviors, you pretty much allow all the sneaky ones to get past your radar, which in the same way as a pro-town network is a bad idea.


'Fourth, No Lynches are BORING. I hate hate hate hate mafia games that turn into "I say, why don't we just sit back and relax whilst waiting for the investigation results to come back in". There's no fun in that, and I'm playing to enjoy it.'

Personal preference, not reasoning, don't feel a massive need to reply in the future unless you have more validated points.

[johnhughthom]

fos:john

The only real target seems to be I-K and I don't see his behaviour as suspicious.

[Thermal]

Interesting. I wasn't aware that a single person posting "FoS" on the basis of their own rule misinterpretation instantly made all people named in that FoS scummy. I will do my best in the future to obey every single FoS I see to the letter.





Someone bet me to it, there we go Subotan, someone has stuck to their vote after the 'FoS' your vote will stick though, won't it? :grin:

[Kagemusha]

Why not?

Tomorrow I got a guilty on khaan.

And are we all forgetting the little twist CR has put into the game that investigation results are not necessarily reliable? So why so adamant about khaan?

[Methos]

I repeat, the statistics don't back this up, you give us one example of a mafia being lynched on day one out of hundreds of games, and see to find it infallible.

A game at CFC where I was mafia. One my of companion mafia was lynched day 1 due to a bandwagon. The reasoning behind the lynch was due to his inactivity. I'm proud to say, we mafia still won that game.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I believe pevergreen was lynched as mafia in pizza's game. And I think we lynched mafia first round of capo I.


And are we all forgetting the little twist CR has put into the game that investigation results are not necessarily reliable? So why so adamant about khaan?

:dizzy2:

[Double A]

That wasn't random, that was an anti-lurker lynch.

[Thermal]

A game at CFC where I was mafia. One my of companion mafia was lynched day 1 due to a bandwagon. The reasoning behind the lynch was due to his inactivity. I'm proud to say, we mafia still won that game.

I know it will have happened more than once, but find it fairly strange that Subotan only points out one example, there have been many mafia games on many forums, meaning many lucky first day mafia lynches, but clearly many many many more first day townie lynches, the ratio and chances are black and white, more town than mafia = more chance of killing town than mafia.

Also, pro-townies can be killed in the same way mafia could be on day 1, which would be disastrous.

[Kagemusha]

I believe pevergreen was lynched as mafia in pizza's game. And I think we lynched mafia first round of capo I.



:dizzy2:

Because he can roll his eyes like no other?

[johnhughthom]

Rereading to see if I missed something re I-K and this post jumped out at me:


Throwing suspicion towards Beefy and then launching a seemingly harmless Sasaki bandwagon. Your action seems t me like a standard mafia behaviour, so Vote: Ibn-Khaldun

Claiming somebody was throwing suspicion simply by asking for clarification on something and starting your own bandwagon. Unvote: Winston Hughes, Vote: Kagemusha

[Renata]

And are we all forgetting the little twist CR has put into the game that investigation results are not necessarily reliable? So why so adamant about khaan?

Huh?

unvote, vote Subotan

Just too aggressive, for basically no reason I can see.

[TinCow]

Why not?

Tomorrow I got a guilty on khaan.

That is the awesomest role EVAR.

Elect: Sasaki

[Sasaki Kojiro]

You'd think so, but I found it was sadly lacking later in the game.

[Subotan]

I repeat, the statistics don't back this up, you give us one example of a mafia being lynched on day one out of hundreds of games, and see to find it infallible.
I'm not saying it's a mathematical constant that the first day lynch will hit a mafia, but with people such as Tincow saying "I have never known a mafioso to be caught on a day one lynch", one (recent) example is enough to disprove that particular theory.




'One, Ibn was most likely following Rule #1 (Sasaki is always guilty), and possibly got the times mixed up (Although if he does it again, hang him high).'

Right....well, should this be the case (not all that convincing though...), I assume Beefy was a random vote, which leads back to my points, without using your ideas of catching mafia out by seeing if they bandwagon and respond to being voted (Beefy did neither), how is your vote constructive? You preach certain things to look out for yet your votes speak in a different frequency.

Beefy was a random vote in that it was unjustified by conventional mafia logic, but it is how I play. Look back over the SMS games, I do the same thing there. If I had started a bandwagon, I would have withdrawn my vote.


Sighs* :brood:

'Why do I have to repeatedly tell people of the example of ACIN being lynched in YLC's Large Mafia game? Am I typing in invisible ink? So you're saying it's not scummy to bandwagon?'


[FONT=Tahoma][COLOR=DarkRed]Well if I should believe a logically flawed statement that only shows up bad mafia players then I would be fairly insane.
So you're saying that no good mafia ever votes in a bandwagon? That may not be insane, but it's wrong.



Underestimating our opponents cannot be of any use, by creating stereotypical mafia behaviors, you pretty much allow all the sneaky ones to get past your radar


Exactly my point. By No Lynching, you're buying time and generating material for the sneaky ones to construct an alibi. If we vote for someone now, we have a chance of getting them with their pants down.



Personal preference, not reasoning, don't feel a massive need to reply in the future unless you have more validated points.
:furious:



Someone bet me to it, there we go Subotan, someone has stuck to their vote after the 'FoS' your vote will stick though, won't it?

I already explained why that is an inaccurate portrayal of my reasoning.



I know it will have happened more than once, but find it fairly strange that Subotan only points out one example, there have been many mafia games on many forums, meaning many lucky first day mafia lynches, but clearly many many many more first day townie lynches, the ratio and chances are black and white, more town than mafia = more chance of killing town than mafia.
:wall: If we hit a townie, it is not a disaster in a game this large. It is a greater crime to let a No Lynch. Also, see Sasaki's post.


Also, pro-townies can be killed in the same way mafia could be on day 1, which would be disastrous.
If an important pro-town manages to get himself lynched on Day 1, then he's a dummy who shouldn't be playing mafia.

And the red writing is very annoying, could you change it to back to black, please?

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Rule #1 states that Sasaki is always suspicious, NOT that he is always guilty. Mind you, in a game where you can volunteer to BECOME guilty, he has an, shall we say, "interesting" track record......

I dislike day one votes without a preceding night phase because nothing, not even the names of the deceased, can be used as grist for the analysis mill. While gaffes in discussion are possible, day one lynches that need only a plurality and not a true majority have a poor record for success. Moreover, in a "multiple party" game such as this, the number of active roles is increased creating a somewhat greater likelihood of killing a pro-town role than is true of the standard game. As such, I do not support Day 1 killings in such games, even though early lynches ARE important tools in the standard game.

I will, therefore, vote: no lynch and await either the headsman or recruiting letters or silence this night to come.

[Kagemusha]

Huh?


From CR`s orifinal post: "I also wanted to stop the town from deducing their enemies based on detective results and night actions. So if a townsperson and a Mafioso have killed someone, the detective’s results will be the same."

[Myrddraal]

Based on his well thought out response to my vote, I'd guess that Sasaki is probably not guilty yet. Besides, he hardly needs provocation to provide plenty of material for analysis :smile:

Unvote: Sasaki

Vote: Yaropolk

[Thermal]

Subotan, many of your responses are either in agreement of what I say or resolved by telling us the way you play, so luckily for me I won't need to take a decade to respond.


'So you're saying that no good mafia ever votes in a bandwagon? That may not be insane, but it's wrong.'

I didn't say mafia never did that, but mafia can be above it too, townies will often bandwagon like mafia aligned players might (or might not) there simply isn't enough evidence that a bandwagonner is mafia or not simply because so many players do it.

'Exactly my point. By No Lynching, you're buying time and generating material for the sneaky ones to construct an alibi. If we vote for someone now, we have a chance of getting them with their pants down.'

Perhaps clues in the write up, pro town results and time to analyze patterns in behavior, as you suggest, would be a more reliable way of catching mafia with there pants down.


' :furious: '

Surprised I got this response given that you've described my responses to your posts as completely flawed and as Renata says, had a fairly aggressive tone, its little wonder I'm a tad short fused.

'If an important pro-town manages to get himself lynched on Day 1, then he's a dummy who shouldn't be playing mafia. '

Easy for you to say, it is sometimes hard for someone to appear innocent all the time, they may be inactive the first night or let slip one silly remark (which is very easy to do) to give everyone benefit of the doubt, as you say you are with Ibn, I would say no lynch is a sound strategy. If a pro-townie was lynched first round you could be as harsh as to say what you just said, or you could blame the people voting for the person for jumping to conclusions.

'And the red writing is very annoying, could you change it to back to black, please?'

The red writing is a great way to differentiate quotes from my own speech, I'd like to think it also makes thread scanners look at my posts, which, as I believe I have the right view points, is handy to me.

[Centurion1]

vote: no lynch

i need to catch up.

[Myrddraal]

Thermal Mercury: did you read my post about no lynch being at worst random (which isn't actually bad, at best discussion provoking? You attitude seems to be that proof that a method is effective is needed before you will take any part in it. Dare I say it, but proof isn't going to win any mafia games.

What is your objective in the early game? To provoke discussion (and voting) or to stifle it?

[Askthepizzaguy]

You'd think so, but I found it was sadly lacking later in the game.

NOW I am convinced.

Appoint/Elect: Sasaki

[Renata]

From CR`s orifinal post: "I also wanted to stop the town from deducing their enemies based on detective results and night actions. So if a townsperson and a Mafioso have killed someone, the detective’s results will be the same."

Right. What part of "tomorrow I got a guilty on Khaan" warranted the second sentence of your response? To quote:

And are we all forgetting the little twist CR has put into the game that investigation results are not necessarily reliable? So why so adamant about khaan?

[Subotan]

Perhaps clues in the write up, pro town results and time to analyze patterns in behavior, as you suggest, would be a more reliable way of catching mafia with there pants down. .
Very nice, whilst we sit around watching as the mafia bump off confirmed townies. Although A First Day lynch may hand a lynch to the mafia, No Lynch definitely hands a kill to the mafia. Although the accidental loss of a townie is tragic and regrettable, it is a risk worth taking in order to get a pop at the mafia when they are at their weakest.


Surprised I got this response given that you've described my responses to your posts as completely flawed and as Renata says, had a fairly aggressive tone, its little wonder I'm a tad short fused.
The way you phrased it was rude. I apologise if that was unintentional.


Easy for you to say, it is sometimes hard for someone to appear innocent all the time, they may be inactive the first night or let slip one silly remark (which is very easy to do) to give everyone benefit of the doubt, as you say you are with Ibn, I would say no lynch is a sound strategy. If a pro-townie was lynched first round you could be as harsh as to say what you just said, or you could blame the people voting for the person for jumping to conclusions.

Balderdash. You say: " I know it will have happened more than once, but find it fairly strange that Subotan only points out one example, there have been many mafia games on many forums, meaning many lucky first day mafia lynches, but clearly many many many more first day townie lynches, the ratio and chances are black and white, more town than mafia = more chance of killing town than mafia.
If that is true, then there is certainly even less chance that an important pro-town role will get lynched, due to their ability to claim. And if anyone does claim due to bandwagon pressure, they will be investigated and dealt with accordingly. If an important pro-town role manages to get lynched on the first day, then he's an dummy and wouldn't have been an asset to the town anyway.

The red writing is a great way to differentiate quotes from my own speech, I'd like to think it also makes thread scanners look at my posts, which, as I believe I have the right view points, is handy to me.

Eh. It's still distracting, and it hints at the possibility of a post restriction.


Thermal Mercury: did you read my post about no lynch being at worst random (which isn't actually bad, at best discussion provoking? You attitude seems to be that proof that a method is effective is needed before you will take any part in it. Dare I say it, but proof isn't going to win any mafia games.

What is your objective in the early game? To provoke discussion (and voting) or to stifle it?
Decisive action always trumps indecisiveness at this stage of the game.

[Thermal]

@ Myrddrall

'You attitude seems to be that proof that a method is effective is needed before you will take any part in it. Dare I say it, but proof isn't going to win any mafia games.'


I think proof can help win mafia games, actually (unless your the mafia). Proof that can be gathered after a neutral first day can win games, proof from pro-town roles or proof from patterns in behavior or proof in write ups can help win mafia games, towards the end of a game I wouldn't stick by these thoughts quite as strongly, but at the start we have the time and ability to use evidence to make concise lynches over random ones.

'What is your objective in the early game? To provoke discussion (and voting) or to stifle it?'

Though it may not sound like it, I would say provoke, I wouldn't of responded to Subotan so much if I didn't want to provoke discussion, given I've contributed to it. Just because I don't necessarily agree with someone, it doesn't mean I'd rather they not say it, though I thought more people were support of my thoughts than it appears. If your referring to me saying to Subotan not to respond if he doesn't have validated points, I only said that because I felt the points weren't all that valid, an opinion, just an encouragement to reason with what I say rather than deny it all.

[Thermal]

@ Subotan

'Very nice, whilst we sit around watching as the mafia bump off confirmed townies. Although A First Day lynch may hand a lynch to the mafia, No Lynch definitely hands a kill to the mafia. Although the accidental loss of a townie is tragic and regrettable, it is a risk worth taking in order to get a pop at the mafia when they are at their weakest.'

And by voting for a townie, your basically doing the mafias job, not only would they get the kills at night but there is the additional townie we killed when we didn't need to, also, if you were lucky enough to find a mafia, that is one less kill in the night (most likely), whereas killing a townie is one more kill in the day, given the chances of killing a townie over mafia, it easily evens itself out on the kill ratios.

'The way you phrased it was rude. I apologise if that was unintentional.'

It was a somewhat rude response to what I portrayed as a rude comment, but your entitled to your view if you do think my reasoning is redundant.


'If that is true, then there is certainly even less chance that an important pro-town role will get lynched, due to their ability to claim. And if anyone does claim due to bandwagon pressure, they will be investigated and dealt with accordingly. If an important pro-town role manages to get lynched on the first day, then he's an dummy and wouldn't have been an asset to the town anyway.'

Yes, I considered a pro-townies ability to claim, but this still doesn't consider inactive pro-town roles on first nights, or sudden bandwagons (which do happen), on 24 hour phases especially, there often isn't enough time to defend yourself, I know mafia, for example in the past have sent there orders in a minute to late and its changed the course of the game (Diamondeye's SMS, C4) but this is only one example, so to go on from my statistical failings. There is also a possibility that they aren't allowed to reveal but more notably having to reveal your a pro-town is as good as being dead anyway. There isn't always a protector and mafia will be rubbing their hands at the chance of killing a self-confessed pro-townie. It leaves town weak by having a key role exposed.

' it hints at the possibility of a post restriction.'

How so? If mods have a problem with it, I can revert back, don't see the issue to be honest.


'Decisive action always trumps indecisiveness at this stage of the game.'

Quite simply, No, it doesn't. :laugh4:

[Renata]

There isn't always a protector

You've read the rules, right? Lack of a protector is not likely to be an issue. Lack of effective protection, possibly.

[Thermal]

You've read the rules, right? Lack of a protector is not likely to be an issue. Lack of effective protection, possibly.

I've read the entire game thread, which is why I was confident enough to say what I have. I know an attacker/s could be the ones who die, but as you say its not effective, the constable against a gang of mafia (which are surely tough) will be took down easily enough.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I hereby promote Thermal to the new Pizzaguy, with his many posts filled with glaring, bolded text, arguing with everyone he sees.

Hail Thermal Pizzaguy, gabby defender of the realm.

[Subotan]

And by voting for a townie, your basically doing the mafias job, not only would they get the kills at night but there is the additional townie we killed when we didn't need to, also, if you were lucky enough to find a mafia, that is one less kill in the night (most likely), whereas killing a townie is one more kill in the day, given the chances of killing a townie over mafia, it easily evens itself out on the kill ratios.

If we hit a mafia now, that's one less kill every night for the rest of the game. That's a risk worth taking, especially since they cannot manufacture a claim.



It was a somewhat rude response to what I portrayed as a rude comment, but your entitled to your view if you do think my reasoning is redundant.

How was "No Lynch is boring" rude?



Yes, I considered a pro-townies ability to claim, but this still doesn't consider inactive pro-town roles on first nights, or sudden bandwagons (which do happen), on 24 hour phases especially, there often isn't enough time to defend yourself, I know mafia, for example in the past have sent there orders in a minute to late and its changed the course of the game (Diamondeye's SMS, C4). There is also a possibility that they aren't allowed to reveal but more notably having to reveal your a pro-town is as good as being dead anyway. There isn't always a protector and mafia will be rubbing their hands at the chance of killing a self-confessed pro-townie.

The chance of hitting a pro-town is less than that of scum, sue to their ability to claim, and it is even tinier that one will actually get lynched. We have the manpower available to chance a townie at the gallows in the hope of getting a mafia.



How so? If mods have a problem with it, I can revert back, don't see the issue to be honest.
Might be a requirement in your role to post in the colour of blood etc.


Quite simply, No, it doesn't. :laugh4:
Oh? Can you name me an example where sitting around doing nothing has been a beneficial strategy for the town at this stage in the game?

[Renata]

Is this askthepizzaguy making a strenuous effort NOT to order the town around first thing off the bat on day one? In any case, what does he think of Sasaki's half-baked attempt to do the same?

[Seon]

I hereby promote Thermal to the new Pizzaguy, with his many posts filled with glaring, bolded text, arguing with everyone he sees.

Hail Thermal Pizzaguy, gabby destroyer of the realm.

Fixed for ya, ATPG :book:

[Reenk Roink]

Wow, two accusations against you and you already admit to being mafia? I apologize that I've made being mafia in this game so boring. And since I'm going to be gone this weekend, I don't mind that you've just stated you're going to kill me tonight.

This is exactly what I speak of. First the disregard of my query into how exactly one arrives at the conclusion that retaliation voting is scummy? Obviously, it's got no epistemic case for it, but Methos here can't even provide a empirical study showing some kind of correlation (that itself is easily refutable, but at least it's an effort).

Then Methos continues to simplistically draw major conclusions. One wonders what kind of magical inference scheme he must employ to do so.

The fact of the matter is, Methos is likely either a scummy guy wanting a first round lynch to make his job easier and will try to smuggle in a candidate using a flawed cliche of Mafia hoping people just go along with it, or he is just an townie with an incredibly poor system for inferring guilt.

Either way, he should be stripped of a vote as soon as possible.


Reenk always does retaliation voting...:shrug: Reenk, your always good for the WIFOM, I missed you:love:

Oh man White eyes, I mean I guess I can't expect better from Methos, but you as well? Just because I always do retaliation voting means it clears me? What if I was exploiting that baseline behavior to get away with the fact that I am not a good guy?

God, I should have just not bothered signing up and played some custom battles in Shogun if I wanted predictability and unoriginality like this... :wall:


I must be confused... Reenk, please tell me what to do because clearly I am playing this game wrong.

My consultation services are $500/minute nowadays, I'm a busy man writing my thesis you know. However, because you were part of one of my most enjoyable partnerships ever in a Mafia game in PSM, this one's on the house. Vote for Methos. :yes:

Unvote: autolycus
Vote: Methos Reasons given above (noble retaliation + poor reasoning perhaps masking a scum trying to get a round 1 kill)

[Thermal]

I hereby promote Thermal to the new Pizzaguy, with his many posts filled with glaring, bolded text, arguing with everyone he sees.

Hail Thermal Pizzaguy, gabby defender of the realm.

No, about 8 people are arguing with me, not me arguing with 8 people! :smug: . I don't think I have any chance of even getting a percentage of the enthusiasm and analyzing you display. :bow:

I'll just hush now.... :surrender:

Oh wait, subotan is startin again, maybe I won't :tongue:

[TinCow]

If we hit a mafia now, that's one less kill every night for the rest of the game.

That's a new one to me. Where does it say that it's one kill per mafioso? The rules say that mafioso "can kill together." :book:

[Seon]

Anyways, Thermal Mercury did convince me enough to go Unvote; Vote: No Lynch

[TinCow]

My consultation services are $500/minute nowadays, I'm a busy man writing my thesis you know. However, because you were part of one of my most enjoyable partnerships ever in a Mafia game in PSM, this one's on the house. Vote for Methos. :yes:

Are you sure you don't want me to vote for Subotan on the basis that he convinced me that No Lynch wasn't a good idea? Think of the delicious irony! Mmmm... irony. :cake:

[Thermal]

Here I go again :brood:


'If we hit a mafia now, that's one less kill every night for the rest of the game. That's a risk worth taking, especially since they cannot manufacture a claim.'

Yes but the percentage of hitting a mafia to townie evens that out, if you were to hit 1 mafia for every five lynches, that would be 4 townies killed (which could include pro-town, even if unlikely & involve revealing pro-town roles in the process), 5 less night kills (that's not bearing in mind that mafia could be killed if they target a tough townie, or pro-town roles don't kill them anyway, that's also assuming the mafia could individually perform one kill each night, we get the impression even mafia should go into groups). Of course, in a game of 42 players, the chance of hitting 1 mafia in 5 isn't great anyway without further evidence, which is why I wouldn't condone no lynch as the game progresses, probably wouldn't condone it even on day 2, day 1 we are clueless however.



'How was "No Lynch is boring" rude?'

I was referring to this, post #179


his reasoning as a whole is flawed.






'The chance of hitting a pro-town is less than that of scum, sue to their ability to claim, and it is even tinier that one will actually get lynched. We have the manpower available to chance a townie at the gallows in the hope of getting a mafia.'

It is a valid response to a certain agree, though if pro-town are forced to reveal then the chance of them being hit at night is what is more worrying, not the daytime lynch. Detectives may have to reveal eventually, but usually can keep there identity quiet for a while and at least get one good result, even if they have to reveal in order to share a confirmed mafia target.


' Might be a requirement in your role to post in the colour of blood etc.'

I posted in this colour to disprove that. :bow:


' Oh? Can you name me an example where sitting around doing nothing has been a beneficial strategy for the town at this stage in the game?'

Were not sitting around, were discussing viable options, how can you be decisive in a situation you know nothing about? That's like taking a toy from a child you've never seen before and saying 'don't worry, he doesn't like toys'.

[Subotan]

That's a new one to me. Where does it say that it's one kill per mafioso? The rules say that mafioso "can kill together." :book:
Um those are the terms TM specified in his post, unless I'm mistaken.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Is this askthepizzaguy making a strenuous effort NOT to order the town around first thing off the bat on day one? In any case, what does he think of Sasaki's half-baked attempt to do the same?

I see a valuable strategy of potentially voting in a leader, and ensuring that person is a townsperson by requiring their death at some point in the near-future. While unenlightened leadership is more often than not the rule, we could at least ensure corrupt rule is eliminated or lessened by putting dear leader to death soon thereafter. If we're going to take blind shots at the mafia through single-minded bandwagoning, at least ensure the leader is honest or dead shortly for their trouble. If the game involved no power roles at all I'd advocate this strategy just as strongly. Here, dear leader can also reverse the bandwagon if we hit a pro-town role, and said role need only reveal to dear leader himself. Sasaki is just as good a choice as any to be a leader. He's at least as skilled as myself when it comes to analysis, he's active, and he knows tactics well enough. And it would be a welcome change to be ordered around rather than do the ordering. I'm also interested to see how Sasaki reacts to being selected to implement his own suggestion, and where he leads us. If we have a significant amount of votes on a mafioso right off the bat, dictatorial rule ensures less chance for mafia counterplay and vote switching. The only problem I see is that it is a potential discussion-killer. But that's only if dear leader steps on the town's neck and doesn't allow anyone else to do questioning or offering suspects. He need only crack the whip when he's made a decision based on the discussion itself, then we serfs fall into line and do his or her bidding. As that is all I've ever known, the sweet nectar of freedom being a foreign and alien concept, I prefer to go with the familiar, and crown Sasaki King Kojiro.

Which has a nice ring to it by the way. If you're going to end up lynching Sasaki anyway at some point, at least allow him his service to his people before he dies. Service involving the brutal slaughter of the guilty and all who annoy him. :grin:

[TheFlax]

Unvote, Vote: No Lynch

Yup, I'm boring like that, always have been. :clown:

[Ibn-Khaldun]

To those who questioned about my vote.. Yes, it was a random one.

Double A, it's not my first mafia but it's my first game after a long break. Probably should have been more prepared for this bandwaggoning against me.

[Subotan]

Alright, it's clear there's not going to be any lynch, so there's no point in me arguing any more. I'm probably already going to get killed for my trouble anyway. Just don't blame me for bad town policy.

Unvote:TM; Vote:Abstain

Ugh, I've got the same sick feeling in my stomach which I had in the dying days of the Thirty Years War. Oh well, I'll just ban No Lynch and Abstain in my mafia game. Woe unto him who dares repeat this tactic in 1930's China.

[Diamondeye]

Just some fast (snide) comments:
-Methos is from CFC and has only played a couple of games on this forum (sorry if this sounds condescending, Meth). Playing on CFC is like a whole other way of playing because of the different (and smaller) community, and on there, OMGUS votes are seen as something that might indicate scummyness (as I think is correct, btw, because it's basically just a "I don't need a proper reason" vote. It goes in some situations, mostly on D1, though).
-Thermal really talks to much and in a tone that makes it sound like everyone agrees with him. I feel like voting for him because I'm quite sold on some of Subotan's points.
-:curtain:

[Thermal]

Just because I have a different view it doesn't mean I think your mafia Subotan. :whip:



@ Diamondeye - Not getting exactly what you mean, but given about half the people here (an exaggeration I guess but still) have questioned me I've hardly got everyone to agree with me, but at the same time, it doesn't hurt me to try, why should that be such a crime?

You also place me in a no win situation, if I don't reply to what people say to me, how scummy would that look? Therefore I have to talk a lot, I can't please everyone you know :tongue:.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Just some fast (snide) comments:
-Methos is from CFC and has only played a couple of games on this forum (sorry if this sounds condescending, Meth). Playing on CFC is like a whole other way of playing because of the different (and smaller) community, and on there, OMGUS votes are seen as something that might indicate scummyness (as I think is correct, btw, because it's basically just a "I don't need a proper reason" vote. It goes in some situations, mostly on D1, though).
-Thermal really talks to much and in a tone that makes it sound like everyone agrees with him. I feel like voting for him because I'm quite sold on some of Subotan's points.
-:curtain:

What is OMGUS?

[Thermal]

What is OMGUS?

Oh my god u suck, voting for someone after they've voted for you, for no other reason than because they voted for you.

[Beskar]

"Oh My Gameroommoderator, You Suck"

[seireikhaan]

Why not?

Tomorrow I got a guilty on khaan.


Pop by my place tonight, I have a surprise for you.

[White_eyes:D]

Oh man White eyes, I mean I guess I can't expect better from Methos, but you as well? Just because I always do retaliation voting means it clears me? What if I was exploiting that baseline behavior to get away with the fact that I am not a good guy?

God, I should have just not bothered signing up and played some custom battles in Shogun if I wanted predictability and unoriginality like this... :wall:
Did I say you were innocent and cleared in anyway? You should know me by now Reenk....We are always on the same wavelength(I mean you would make me your mind-slave if you could):bounce:

You get the same vibes from Methos that I do......and he also said retaliation voting is scummy.....I know your real touchy about that subject:juggle2:

I Elect/Appoint:Sasaki just because he never takes this too seriously:laugh4:

[A Very Super Market]

We've pumped this page full enough, huh?

Vote: Subotan

[Chaotix]

Four pages on the first round??

This game's gonna be a big one.

Anyway, Vote: khaan

Statistically speaking, he is most likely to be mafia right now. :clown:

[Csargo]

I see a valuable strategy of potentially voting in a leader, and ensuring that person is a townsperson by requiring their death at some point in the near-future. While unenlightened leadership is more often than not the rule, we could at least ensure corrupt rule is eliminated or lessened by putting dear leader to death soon thereafter. If we're going to take blind shots at the mafia through single-minded bandwagoning, at least ensure the leader is honest or dead shortly for their trouble. If the game involved no power roles at all I'd advocate this strategy just as strongly. Here, dear leader can also reverse the bandwagon if we hit a pro-town role, and said role need only reveal to dear leader himself. Sasaki is just as good a choice as any to be a leader. He's at least as skilled as myself when it comes to analysis, he's active, and he knows tactics well enough. And it would be a welcome change to be ordered around rather than do the ordering. I'm also interested to see how Sasaki reacts to being selected to implement his own suggestion, and where he leads us. If we have a significant amount of votes on a mafioso right off the bat, dictatorial rule ensures less chance for mafia counterplay and vote switching. The only problem I see is that it is a potential discussion-killer. But that's only if dear leader steps on the town's neck and doesn't allow anyone else to do questioning or offering suspects. He need only crack the whip when he's made a decision based on the discussion itself, then we serfs fall into line and do his or her bidding. As that is all I've ever known, the sweet nectar of freedom being a foreign and alien concept, I prefer to go with the familiar, and crown Sasaki King Kojiro.

Which has a nice ring to it by the way. If you're going to end up lynching Sasaki anyway at some point, at least allow him his service to his people before he dies. Service involving the brutal slaughter of the guilty and all who annoy him. :grin:

What...

[Beefy187]

Unvote, Vote: No Lynch

Yup, I'm boring like that, always have been. :clown:

Noo. Come back!

Unvote, Vote: TheFlax

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Anyways, Thermal Mercury did convince me enough to go Unvote; Vote: No Lynch

I will mark this, because I think it saves Ibn, for good or for bad.

Either this post or TheFlax's.


if you were lucky enough to find a mafia, that is one less kill in the night (most likely),

The role list just says this:



Spies; the mafia. They can kill together and also investigate townspeople to find roles and susceptibility to conversion.

So why do you think there will be one less kill? Does it say that in your spy role pm? :beam:

[pevergreen]

Unvote, Vote: Reenk

[Csargo]

Unvote, Vote: Reenk

Why do you hate Reenk?

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

Alright, it's clear there's not going to be any lynch, so there's no point in me arguing any more. I'm probably already going to get killed for my trouble anyway. Just don't blame me for bad town policy.

Unvote:TM; Vote:Abstain

Ugh, I've got the same sick feeling in my stomach which I had in the dying days of the Thirty Years War. Oh well, I'll just ban No Lynch and Abstain in my mafia game. Woe unto him who dares repeat this tactic in 1930's China.


Unvote: No lynch, Vote: Subotan


Giving up now?

[pevergreen]

Why do you hate Reenk?

I don't believe he ever answered my question.

[GeneralHankerchief]

*red/green text*


I hereby promote Thermal to the new Pizzaguy, with his many posts filled with glaring, bolded text, arguing with everyone he sees.

Hail Thermal Pizzaguy, gabby defender of the realm.

Right, let's nip this in the bud. The disease must not be allowed to break out of quarantine. :smg:

Unvote: Renata
Vote: Thermal

[Sasaki Kojiro]

unvote:ibn, vote:Thermal

[Csargo]

unvote:ibn, vote:Thermal

Why would you do that?

[slashandburn]

because one loose homicidal pizza delivering maniac is plenty.

Also, didnt notice gamehad started so Vote:No Lynch until further analysis by my paid consultants. ( just kidding, :laugh4::laugh4:)

[johnhughthom]

Haven't seen you for a while salt & barnacles, thought you'd left us.

[Scienter]

Vote:No Lynch I jumped on a bandwagon the last game I played and it ended up being pointless.

[Splitpersonality]

Vote: Abstain

I have no idea what's going on.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Why do I have to repeatedly tell people of the example of ACIN being lynched in YLC's Large Mafia game? Am I typing in invisible ink?

Vote: Subotan

Thanks for bringing back that bad memory dude.
(You know you still my tavern buddy.)

[a completely inoffensive name]

Also I figure we should choose a leader, and that leader should be me. I won't be a harsh one, I only require three things:
1. Complete obedience. (not that hard, people have done that many times throughout history)
2. All your money. (Im doing good in my AP Econ class so I think I can safely say I would be better at money management then at least 50% of cults out there)
3. At least one internet meme in everyones post. (For every time you quote or reference Pulp Fiction, Fight Club or Die Hard you are granted one post that doesn't need an internet meme in it.)

I don't think this is so hard, only one person has ever died following these rules:
His name is Robert Paulson.

[Methos]

Just some fast (snide) comments:
-Methos is from CFC and has only played a couple of games on this forum (sorry if this sounds condescending, Meth). Playing on CFC is like a whole other way of playing because of the different (and smaller) community, and on there, OMGUS votes are seen as something that might indicate scummyness (as I think is correct, btw, because it's basically just a "I don't need a proper reason" vote. It goes in some situations, mostly on D1, though).

No offense taken and you're correct, the two sites do play very differently.