Large Mafia Game The Shadow Fort [Concluded] [Archive] - Page 5

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Renata

03-16-2010, 15:31

Get Atheotes in here; maybe he has some voodoo left over from That Creeping Darkness.

Secura

03-16-2010, 15:32

I'm... Intrigued by your conclusion that the mafia are voting for Secura who is clearly mafia.

I think Kage's argument is that I told my underlings to vote for me to avoid suspicion, or something akin to that. It's a strong argument.

Kagemusha

03-16-2010, 15:35

I'm... Intrigued by your conclusion that the mafia are voting for Secura who is clearly mafia.

Its quite tested tactics to distance onself from drowning partner in crime by voting him /her. Also it presents one with argument that why he /she would have voted their own mafia pall in the future.

Uhm... Does my avatar count? After all, it's not really a baker boy.
I do tend to agree, though, want me to try and banish the thing with a psalm?

Im afraid this malicious spirit isnt going anywhere before next weekend when my next work shift starts.:evilgrin:

Secura

03-16-2010, 15:38

Its quite tested tactics to distance onself from drowning partner in crime by voting him /her. Also it presents one with argument that why he /she would have voted their own mafia pall in the future.

See? You cannot fool the dead.

Scienter

03-16-2010, 15:38

I don't believe you. Before you said you couldn't figure out the Secura RL friends thing, are you sure that isn't why you were checking her profile?

Yes, I'm sure. I think you're reading too much into the fact that I looked at her profile. :nice:

Diamondeye

03-16-2010, 15:40

I think Kage's argument is that I told my underlings to vote for me to avoid suspicion, or something akin to that. It's a strong argument.

Heh... WIFOMing sure has become popular.

True, it's likely that your teammates don't have anything against voting for you now since you are, quite definitely, dead meat. But I find it interesting of Kage to actively limit suspects to those voting against you. That's just plain odd.

Its quite tested tactics to distance onself from drowning partner in crime by voting him /her. Also it presents one with argument that why he /she would have voted their own mafia pall in the future.

Im afraid this malicious spirit isnt going anywhere before next weekend when my next work shift starts.:evilgrin:

Not even if I bring in the Ominious Latin Chanting (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OminousLatinChanting)?

Secura

03-16-2010, 15:41

Yes, I'm sure. I think you're reading too much into the fact that I looked at her profile. :nice:

Hey, Scienter, old buddy, old pal! ^_^

johnhughthom

03-16-2010, 15:43

Diamondeye

03-16-2010, 15:43

Secura

03-16-2010, 15:44

Heh... WIFOMing sure has become popular.

Quite.

True, it's likely that your teammates don't have anything against voting for you now since you are, quite definitely, dead meat. But I find it interesting of Kage to actively limit suspects to those voting against you. That's just plain odd.

It pains me to say this... but Kagemusha might have found the right tree by following that line of thinking.

Kagemusha

03-16-2010, 15:46

Heh... WIFOMing sure has become popular.

True, it's likely that your teammates don't have anything against voting for you now since you are, quite definitely, dead meat. But I find it interesting of Kage to actively limit suspects to those voting against you. That's just plain odd.

I didnt think i was limiting suspects. Just presenting some to take notice of. Id like for you to remember that list at point when the numbers of people in the fort come down.

Not even if I bring in the Ominious Latin Chanting (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OminousLatinChanting)?

Arrrghh! Id prefer Jimmy Hendrix, but if you must, then go ahead and chant.:sick2:

It pains me to say this... but Kagemusha might have found the right tree by following that line of thinking.

Discrediting my hypothesis are we madam?

Secura

03-16-2010, 15:48

Secura, if you being dead is beneficial to the mafia, why didn't you have your lackeys kill you night one? That would have given you three days to drown the topic in posts as a "known townie" diverting attention from the real mafia and a WTF??!! moment confusing the life out of everyone when your role was revealed.

I didn't really pay attention to this ability inheritance thing until a spy pointed it out to me after the Kagemusha lynch because it was in his/her own role PM. I hadn't banked on dying until that was brought to my attention.

And having my spies kill me would've been genius, but alas I didn't think of that. Clearly you would have made a better Spymaster.

Secura

03-16-2010, 15:50

Discrediting my hypothesis are we madam?

I think that if you re-read your own hypothesis and then re-read what I said... you'll find I'm not discrediting it. :P

Kagemusha

03-16-2010, 15:55

But it could be also a double wifom? You are crediting me in order to discredit me so my theory would be ignored?Well the line of thought is getting so complicated id better tend some real life business before this spirit gets even more insane then i currently am.:burnout:

Diamondeye

03-16-2010, 16:18

Quite.
It pains me to say this... but Kagemusha might have found the right tree by following that line of thinking.

But it could be also a double wifom? You are crediting me in order to discredit me so my theory would be ignored?Well the line of thought is getting so complicated id better tend some real life business before this spirit gets even more insane then i currently am.:burnout:

I'm quite sure that's Secura's idea. We don't know how many layers of WIFOM we are dealing with. So I'm simply going to stop here, okay? :beam:

Secura

03-16-2010, 16:22

Iocane powder is from Australia.

Infer what you will. xD

atheotes

03-16-2010, 16:39

If you wish to waste kills on Beskar and atheotes, by all means, go ahead. I'm merely saying that you should prepare to be disappointed.

:stare: stop supporting me!
You saved Beskar! If you want to assert that your friend, you can do so, since you claim to know his role. What makes you think i am townie? (guess or gut feeling is not good enough) so, stop grouping me with Beskar to spare him :stare:

Kage - I am not convinced everyone that voted for Secura should considered as suspects. The most suspicious would be anyone who had voted for Sigurd but changed it later to Secura after she became the clear leader. the next level of suspects would be the ones who did not vote for Secura till she confessed. (the second list will include townies who were waiting to cast an informed vote with a decent case on someone :grin:)

Beskar

03-16-2010, 16:44

:stare: stop supporting me!
You saved Beskar! If you want to assert that your friend, you can do so, since you claim to know his role. What makes you think i am townie? (guess or gut feeling is not good enough) so, stop grouping me with Beskar to spare him :stare:

Kage - I am not convinced everyone that voted for Secura should considered as suspects. The most suspicious would be anyone who had voted for Sigurd but changed it later to Secura after she became the clear leader. the next level of suspects would be the ones who did not vote for Secura till she confessed. (the second list will include townies who were waiting to cast an informed vote with a decent case on someone :grin:)

Secura didn't save me, as if they didn't, I would have saved myself anyway. Even then, the logic falls apart and wasn't good enough reason to lynch. However, admitting they are the mafia is good enough reason to lynch.

I could also say "Stop grouping me with Secura" since me and Secura were never in a group, alas, you are overly paranoid about the connection as in some one who is scared to be revealed.

Secura

03-16-2010, 16:50

pevergreen

03-16-2010, 16:53

Iocane powder is from Australia.

Infer what you will. xD

I'm a criminal?

You and Beakar are a pair. I read his user title and think of that scene.

I watched it every night just before i went to bed. For over a year.

Secura

03-16-2010, 16:57

You and Beakar are a pair. I read his user title and think of that scene.

Hahaha, I'm going to call him Beaker (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/2c/Beaker_muppet.jpg) now. xD

pevergreen

03-16-2010, 16:58

Wow, again with the misspelling. My mistake.

:bow:

atheotes

03-16-2010, 17:21

Secura didn't save me, as if they didn't, I would have saved myself anyway. Even then, the logic falls apart and wasn't good enough reason to lynch. However, admitting they are the mafia is good enough reason to lynch.

I could also say "Stop grouping me with Secura" since me and Secura were never in a group, alas, you are overly paranoid about the connection as in some one who is scared to be revealed.

Secura vouched for you and lobbied pretty hard. It was claimed that you guys could see through each others lies and know each others roles....and she has been WIFOMing on your behalf (if he was mafia why would he put himself under so much pressure) - these put you under a lot of suspicion.

Sasaki Kojiro

03-16-2010, 17:26

Secura vouched for you and lobbied pretty hard. It was claimed that you guys could see through each others lies and know each others roles....and she has been WIFOMing on your behalf (if he was mafia why would he put himself under so much pressure) - these put you under a lot of suspicion.

But wifoming on someones behalf is wifom in and of itself.

johnhughthom

03-16-2010, 17:26

And having my spies kill me would've been genius, but alas I didn't think of that. Clearly you would have made a better Spymaster.

Hmm, overly humble there, what are you hiding?

I have come to the conclusion that either you are the anti-Beskar, or Beskar has some sort of split-personality and you are the "other half".

pevergreen

03-16-2010, 17:36

Mafia: Secura, Beskar, Reenk and Sigurd

Kagemusha

03-16-2010, 17:42

Mafia: Secura, Beskar, Reenk and Sigurd

Dont forget Sasaki no matter how many shipwrecks he owns he is scum.:smash:

Winston Hughes

03-16-2010, 17:45

Now that it's suspiciously late for me to do so, I think I'll join this runaway bandwagon.

unvote; vote: Secura

Sasaki Kojiro

03-16-2010, 17:47

Dont forget Sasaki no matter how many shipwrecks he owns he is scum.:smash:

There was once an island in which some of the inhabitants professed a religion teaching neither the doctrine of original sin nor that of eternal punishment. A suspicion got abroad that the professors of this religion had made use of unfair means to get their doctrines taught to children. They were accused of wresting the laws of their country in such a way as to remove children from the care of their natural and legal guardians; and even of stealing them away and keeping them concealed from their friends and relations. A certain number of men formed themselves into a society for the purpose of agitating the public about this matter. They published grave accusations against individual citizens of the highest position and character, and did all in their power to injure these citizens in their exercise of their professions. So great was the noise they made, that a Commission was appointed to investigate the facts; but after the Commission had carefully inquired into all the evidence that could be got, it appeared that the accused were innocent. Not only had they been accused on insufficient evidence, but the evidence of their innocence was such as the agitators might easily have obtained, if they had attempted a fair inquiry. After these disclosures the inhabitants of that country looked upon the members of the agitating society, not only as persons whose judgment was to be distrusted, but also as no longer to be counted honourable men. For although they had sincerely and conscientiously believed in the charges they had made, yet they had no right to believe on such evidence as was before them. Their sincere convictions, instead of being honestly earned by patient inquiring, were stolen by listening to the voice of prejudice and passion.

TinCow

03-16-2010, 17:50

blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah

It is the peculiar quality of a fool to perceive the faults of others and to forget his own.
- Marcus Tullius Cicero

Kagemusha

03-16-2010, 17:53

There was once an island in which some of the inhabitants professed a religion teaching neither the doctrine of original sin nor that of eternal punishment. A suspicion got abroad that the professors of this religion had made use of unfair means to get their doctrines taught to children. They were accused of wresting the laws of their country in such a way as to remove children from the care of their natural and legal guardians; and even of stealing them away and keeping them concealed from their friends and relations. A certain number of men formed themselves into a society for the purpose of agitating the public about this matter. They published grave accusations against individual citizens of the highest position and character, and did all in their power to injure these citizens in their exercise of their professions. So great was the noise they made, that a Commission was appointed to investigate the facts; but after the Commission had carefully inquired into all the evidence that could be got, it appeared that the accused were innocent. Not only had they been accused on insufficient evidence, but the evidence of their innocence was such as the agitators might easily have obtained, if they had attempted a fair inquiry. After these disclosures the inhabitants of that country looked upon the members of the agitating society, not only as persons whose judgment was to be distrusted, but also as no longer to be counted honourable men. For although they had sincerely and conscientiously believed in the charges they had made, yet they had no right to believe on such evidence as was before them. Their sincere convictions, instead of being honestly earned by patient inquiring, were stolen by listening to the voice of prejudice and passion.

Lol! So you have turned into Dickens of sorts. Hopefully some people will test next night whether pen (or keyboard) is really mightier then blade.:smash:

Scienter

03-16-2010, 17:55

Lol! So you have turned into Dickens of sorts. Hopefully some people will test next night whether pen (or keyboard) is really mightier then blade.:smash:

Dickens wouldn't have used a single punctuation mark in that lengthy post. :tongue2:

Sasaki Kojiro

03-16-2010, 17:59

It is the peculiar quality of a fool to perceive the faults of others and to forget his own.
- Marcus Tullius Cicero

It's ironic for Cicero to say that, because unless he is intending to call himself a fool (unlikely) he is ignoring his own tendency to fault others more than himself.

In any case TinCow, Clifford was discussing in what circumstances belief may be justified. I have said one is not justified in believing merely to avoid the pain of doubt, nor in believing while caught up in passion. You are guilty of the first, kage of the second.

I would not claim perfection as Cicero seems to, but I do strive to overcome my faults. Have I not shown a willingness in this game and others to change my mind when presented with evidence? If our nature is imperfect, should we not nevertheless strive to reach our highest potential, rather than give up and wallow gleefully in the mud?

pevergreen

03-16-2010, 18:01

It's ironic for Cicero to say that, because unless he is intending to call himself a fool (unlikely) he is ignoring his own tendency to fault others more than himself.

In any case TinCow, Clifford was discussing in what circumstances belief may be justified. I have said one is not justified in believing merely to avoid the pain of doubt, nor in believing while caught up in passion. You are guilty of the first, kage of the second.

I would not claim perfection as Cicero seems to, but I do strive to overcome my faults. Have I not shown a willingness in this game and others to change my mind when presented with evidence? If our nature is imperfect, should we not nevertheless strive to reach our highest potential, rather than give up and wallow gleefully in the mud?
You talk too much.

You are mafia.

We'll lynch you after my list of confirmed mafia.

Ibn-Khaldun

03-16-2010, 18:02

When exactly is the day phase going to end?

Kagemusha

03-16-2010, 18:05

It's ironic for Cicero to say that, because unless he is intending to call himself a fool (unlikely) he is ignoring his own tendency to fault others more than himself.

In any case TinCow, Clifford was discussing in what circumstances belief may be justified. I have said one is not justified in believing merely to avoid the pain of doubt, nor in believing while caught up in passion. You are guilty of the first, kage of the second.

I would not claim perfection as Cicero seems to, but I do strive to overcome my faults. Have I not shown a willingness in this game and others to change my mind when presented with evidence? If our nature is imperfect, should we not nevertheless strive to reach our highest potential, rather than give up and wallow gleefully in the mud?

Well passion is needed to drive trough any ideas. Without passion life is meaningless, once one looses his passion, one looses his will to live. Will can brake obstacles that theory might describe impossible to brake. Also in dire situations there is no room for doubt. To go through one must have iron will and act without any doubts.

atheotes

03-16-2010, 18:09

When exactly is the day phase going to end?

about 1 hour before you posted

TinCow

03-16-2010, 18:14

Have I not shown a willingness in this game and others to change my mind when presented with evidence?

Since when have I been unwilling to change my mind when presented with evidence? I recall doing so only a few hours ago. The issue I see is that you have not presented any probative evidence so far. All you've said is (1) the night write-ups show you're not mafia, and (2) your claimed role can be verified with future actions. I have already addressed (1) for the fallacy that it is. As for (2), the rules state that investigators in this game do not get clear results on who is scum and who is not. Since you have already admitted to killing, that seems to preclude anything worthwhile coming from an investigation. Under these circumstances, I feel the burden of proof lies on you to prove your own innocence. Until you do, "Sasaki delenda est."

Sasaki Kojiro

03-16-2010, 18:21

Since when have I been unwilling to change my mind when presented with evidence?

Netherworld II :tongue3:

You focus in on things that are not as meaningful as you think.

I recall doing so only a few hours ago. The issue I see is that you have not presented any probative evidence so far. All you've said is (1) the night write-ups show you're not mafia, and (2) your claimed role can be verified with future actions. I have already addressed (1) for the fallacy that it is. As for (2), the rules state that investigators in this game do not get clear results on who is scum and who is not. Since you have already admitted to killing, that seems to preclude anything worthwhile coming from an investigation. Under these circumstances, I feel the burden of proof lies on you to prove your own innocence. Until you do, "Sasaki delenda est."

You dropped argument in favor of repetition.

The spies kill together, ergo I am not a spy.

Seamus was killed in a certain way, and your claim that the writeups are meaningless is the one that would require evidence. I killed in a different way, one entirely consistent with a warrior, of whom the OP implies there are several. Ergo, the odds are much in favor of my being a pro town role as opposed to a serial killer. In the worst case scenario of me not being killed, I continue to vig kill suspicious people. In the worst case scenario of me being killed, pro town players die attacking me, a pro town role (myself) dies, and instead of me vigging mafia they are allowed to live.

The fact that I told people I would be solo killing is a piece you ignored.

Secura

03-16-2010, 18:22

:curtain:

Crazed Rabbit

03-16-2010, 18:25

Voting is closed (an hour ago 25 minutes :sweatdrop: ).

Though it looks like we all know who's getting lynched.

CR

atheotes

03-16-2010, 18:27

I can corroborate Sasaki's claim about his solo-kill of Chaotix; it all happened as he's stated it.

unvote, vote Secura

What about the source of Sigurd's information? Did you tell someone as Sasaki has claimed?

Kagemusha

03-16-2010, 18:27

The fact that I told people I would be solo killing is a piece you ignored.

And thats the nail in your coffin. According to game host you need two warriors to kill someone. You did it alone. So most likely you are a serial killer sort of character.

Secura

03-16-2010, 18:30

And thats the nail in your coffin. According to game host you need two warriors to kill someone. You did it alone. So most likely you are a serial killer sort of character.

Actually, that isn't true; Warrior is one of the two highest promotions (the other being Sergeant).

While it's better for Sasaki to team up with someone (he only needs to form 2-man groups for vig-kills unlike travellers and soldiers), and he's been angling for that as he stated earlier, he is perfectly capable of fighting alone.

Sasaki Kojiro

03-16-2010, 18:33

Well passion is needed to drive trough any ideas. Without passion life is meaningless, once one looses his passion, one looses his will to live. Will can brake obstacles that theory might describe impossible to brake. Also in dire situations there is no room for doubt. To go through one must have iron will and act without any doubts.

See, this is where acting without doubts gets you:

And thats the nail in your coffin. According to game host you need two warriors to kill someone. You did it alone. So most likely you are a serial killer sort of character.

You didn't even take the time to check the OP. As was said in the story I posted:

Not only had they been accused on insufficient evidence, but the evidence of their innocence was such as the agitators might easily have obtained, if they had attempted a fair inquiry.

Kagemusha

03-16-2010, 18:34

Actually, that isn't true; Warrior is one of the two highest promotions (the other being Sergeant).

While it's better for Sasaki to team up with someone (he only needs to form 2-man groups for vig-kills unlike travellers and soldiers), and he's been angling for that as he stated earlier, he is perfectly capable of fighting alone.

He might have a chance of succeeding alone. We are not calculating chances, but getting rid of any potential menaces for the town.

Winston Hughes

03-16-2010, 18:36

Voting is closed (an hour ago 25 minutes :sweatdrop: ).

Bah, another missed deadline. :embarassed:

TinCow

03-16-2010, 18:41

Netherworld II :tongue3:

You focus in on things that are not as meaningful as you think.

A person killing solo is not meaningful?

The spies kill together, ergo I am not a spy.

Actually, the rules state that "They can kill together " That doesn't mean they can't kill solo.

Seamus was killed in a certain way, and your claim that the writeups are meaningless is the one that would require evidence. I killed in a different way, one entirely consistent with a warrior, of whom the OP implies there are several. Ergo, the odds are much in favor of my being a pro town role as opposed to a serial killer.

The point is that there is no way to tell from the results we have seen so far the alignments of the killers. Obviously the smelly guy appears differently than you, but that doesn't mean the smelly guy is mafia or that you are pro-town. Nor is there any guarantee that all warriors will appear the same, or that all mafia will appear the same. CR clearly explained that he wanted to keep the night and day results ambiguous about who was fighting who.

In the worst case scenario of me not being killed, I continue to vig kill suspicious people. In the worst case scenario of me being killed, pro town players die attacking me, a pro town role (myself) dies, and instead of me vigging mafia they are allowed to live.

Wrong, in the worst case scenario of you not being killed, you are mafia and we let you knock of a player every single night. It is exceptionally easy for a good mafioso find a 'suspicious' target to knock off every night without actually hitting a mafioso.

The fact that I told people I would be solo killing is a piece you ignored.

You telling people that you would kill solo proves nothing. I can't even count the number of games in which mafioso have impersonated vigilantes. It's the obvious cover as it allows killings to continue. Calling your shots is proof only of your actions, not of your alignment.

Kagemusha

03-16-2010, 18:42

See, this is where acting without doubts gets you:

You didn't even take the time to check the OP. As was said in the story I posted:

Well as we both know innocents might die in order to root out the mafia. Which is a bigger risk: Leave you be and take a chance we are tricked by a serial killer / mafia or kill you and in couple days we know what you were?

Sasaki Kojiro

03-16-2010, 18:56

A person killing solo is not meaningful?

Actually, the rules state that "They can kill together " That doesn't mean they can't kill solo.

That isn't what it says. You added the bolding. When it says that, it is listing their abilities.

The point is that there is no way to tell from the results we have seen so far the alignments of the killers. Obviously the smelly guy appears differently than you, but that doesn't mean the smelly guy is mafia or that you are pro-town. Nor is there any guarantee that all warriors will appear the same, or that all mafia will appear the same. CR clearly explained that he wanted to keep the night and day results ambiguous about who was fighting who.

But they aren't entirely ambiguous. You keep arguing from the position of certainty, I am arguing from probability. Given that there are a certain number of mafia roles, and given that there are a certain number of pro town solo killers, an argument of odds is highly appropriate. The killer that attacked seamus is a non-warrior killer. If we assume at least 2 warriors, and we have eliminated the possibility of me being a spy and of me being 1 serial killer then the odds of my being a warrior dramatically increase. Speaking of guarantees is mere rhetoric.

Wrong, in the worst case scenario of you not being killed, you are mafia and we let you knock of a player every single night. It is exceptionally easy for a good mafioso find a 'suspicious' target to knock off every night without actually hitting a mafioso.

Why on earth would I not try and kill mafia in this scenario? How would I know who they were? This isn't making sense.

You telling people that you would kill solo proves nothing. I can't even count the number of games in which mafioso have impersonated vigilantes. It's the obvious cover as it allows killings to continue. Calling your shots is proof only of your actions, not of your alignment.

You can't claim on the one hand that merely possessing solo-killing ability is suspicious, and on the other saying that revealing it unasked is meaningless.

**********

You are essentially dismissing probability, evidence, and the weighing of risk vs reward in favor of a "we can't be certain/no guarantees" argument. That is exactly the same as the story I posted, where the shipowner stifles doubt in order to comfort himself.

You followed this same "here is a piece of evidence, there is no guarantee of your innocence" strategy in netherworld when you lynched me and chaotix.

Subotan

03-16-2010, 19:03

Mafia:... Reenk...
I totally agree with the others, but when did we find that out?

Beskar

03-16-2010, 19:06

I totally agree with the others, but when did we find that out?

If I remember correctly, you are nearby, how much are you betting that I am currently a mafia and not a traveller like I have claimed?

£10, £20, £50 ?

TinCow

03-16-2010, 19:10

That isn't what it says. You added the bolding. When it says that, it is listing their abilities.

Then get a clarification from CR. If CR says that spies can only kill in pair, you're off the hook. That's pretty simple.

But they aren't entirely ambiguous. You keep arguing from the position of certainty, I am arguing from probability. Given that there are a certain number of mafia roles, and given that there are a certain number of pro town solo killers, an argument of odds is highly appropriate. The killer that attacked seamus is a non-warrior killer. If we assume at least 2 warriors, and we have eliminated the possibility of me being a spy and of me being 1 serial killer then the odds of my being a warrior dramatically increase. Speaking of guarantees is mere rhetoric.

As for 'probability', show me the statistics. You have this tendency to act like anything you say is the truth and I should just accept it. If you're working on statistical odds, show me the math. In the above, you're already rigging the results as well: how have we eliminated the possibility of you being a spy and a serial killer?

Why on earth would I not try and kill mafia in this scenario? How would I know who they were? This isn't making sense.

Sorry if that wasn't clear. The worst case scenario is that you are a mafioso, in which case you would not be killing fellow mafioso. The error in your previous statement was that your 'living' worst case scenario didn't factor in the chance of you being a mafioso.

You can't claim on the one hand that merely possessing solo-killing ability is suspicious, and on the other saying that revealing it unasked is meaningless.

Sure I can. You used that argument against me in Netherworld I. I must say I'm still struck rather dumbfounded by the current trend in assuming that massive numbers of night kills are a good thing. It has been accepted doctrine since I started playing here that vigilantes were extremely dangerous, particularly solo vigs. I understand the arguments being made for them, but I still get a creeping feeling up my spine that it's just wrong.

You are essentially dismissing probability, evidence, and the weighing of risk vs reward in favor of a "we can't be certain/no guarantees" argument. That is exactly the same as the story I posted, where the shipowner stifles doubt in order to comfort himself.

That's not true at all. I'm weighing the evidence I see and finding the scales coming down against you. Just because you don't feel the evidence balances that way doesn't mean I'm dismissing it.

You followed this same "here is a piece of evidence, there is no guarantee of your innocence" strategy in netherworld when you lynched me and chaotix.

If my evidence was so poor, you wouldn't have been lynched.

Renata

03-16-2010, 19:11

What about the source of Sigurd's information? Did you tell someone as Sasaki has claimed?

I did.

Crazed Rabbit

03-16-2010, 19:24

The Shadow Fort, end of Day 3

Various soldiers and guards had been moving closer to Secura ever since she announced she was the Turkish spymaster.

Once Gerard, standing at the top of the stairs at the keep entrance, gave the signal that voting was over, they all moved in.

"It seems we have caught one a powerful spy," beamed Gerard as Secura was led to the gallows.

She* just smiled.

"This is rather interesting, isn't it?" asked Hans, "Secura just gave herself up. Why would she do that?"

Gerard just continued to smile, "I guess the Turk has found this fort more difficult to infiltrate than he expected!"

"Could it be that she is protecting someone? Are we playing into her hands?"

Gerard's face flickered in annoyance, "So difficult that they could not bear to continue and wish for a quick death!"

Secura was undaunted, "Once you strike me down, my followers shall destroy you all. Their influence grows around you even as we speak. Convert and submit or you will be consumed."

Gerard boomed back, "Your followers are idle! What damage have they wrought? A single death, perhaps, before we caught their leader!"

Secura just smiled back at him as the noose was placed around her neck.

"Perhaps she is right - that killing her will only make her fellow spies more powerful. Perhaps she serves to catch our eye while men with long knives circle behind us," said Hans, worried.

"Enough!," whispered Gerard, keeping his face staring straight at Secura.

The trapdoor was released and she fell. After several minutes her body was placed next to Kagemusha's.

The crowd remained eerily calm during the hanging.

"Congratulations, soldiers and citizens of Austria! We have quickly found and killed our greatest enemy! Her self assurance is but a mask to confuse us - her fellows are surely doomed now. So sleep well tonight, and tomorrow we shall kill another Turk!" proclaimed Gerard boisterously.

The crowd broke up and Gerard returned to the keep.

"I went past her room briefly," said Hans, "far from the luxury of the sultans. I guess the Turkish spymasters are more frugal."

"She may find her new home more frugal yet," smirked Gerard.

The night phase will last 32 hours! The night phase ends at 7:30 PM PST March 17th!

Tally: (Thanks to Sigurd!)

Secura: 17 (ATPG, atheotes, autolycus, Beskar, Capt B, Cent1, Csargo, Diamondeye, Reenk, Renata, Sasaki, Sigurd, TheFlax, TinCow, White_e:D, Yaropolk, Yaseikhaan)
Sigurd: 6 (Beefy, pever, Psychonaut, Scienter, Seon, Subotan)

ATPG: 1 (Methos)
autolycus: 1 (ACIN)
Beakar: 1 (GH)
Csargo: 1 (Thermal)
Diamondeye: 1 (Winston)
pever: 1 (Jolt)
Reenk Roink: 1 (Ibn)
TheFlax: 1 (Myrddraal)
Thermal Mercury: 1 (Double A)

not voting: 6 (CDF, johnhugh, Joooray, Secura, slashandburn, spL1t)

Csargo

03-16-2010, 19:25

How come you suddenly leaped into activity? threat of lurkerkillings mounting up?
Anyway, while your post do seem a bit absolutist, it's better than lurking. But I'm keeping an eye on you (like I'm not doing that to the rest of the people in the game :P )

I was with family all weekend and basically didn't get on the computer at all Sat. and Sun. Yesterday was the first time I've been on for any extended period of time. That's why that happened.

Absolutist? I got it right, so :tongue:

Secura

03-16-2010, 19:30

:curtain:

Sasaki Kojiro

03-16-2010, 19:36

Funny thing is, Secura could have made the whole thing up for a lark.

Kagemusha

03-16-2010, 19:37

:curtain:

Wellcome to the afterlife madam. Its not as bad as one might think.:holiday:

atheotes

03-16-2010, 19:38

Funny thing is, Secura could have made the whole thing up for a lark.

she could have... but from the handful of games i have seen her play, i dont think she would do that as a townie.

Csargo

03-16-2010, 19:38

Spartan?

Renata

03-16-2010, 19:40

Well, we'll know in a week or so. Until then she can pull up a beach chair next to Kagemusha in the lynchee section.

slashandburn

03-16-2010, 19:50

Keyboard was unable to type for awhile. Sorry for not posting had a friend come and help me out.

Secura

03-16-2010, 20:07

Wellcome to the afterlife madam. Its not as bad as one might think.:holiday:

Oh, hi there! So good to be out of the snow and on the beach! :D

I'm going to do a Kagemusha now and strike back at the town with words of wisdom, vengeance and orcinus orca.

Sasaki Kojiro

03-16-2010, 20:20

Then get a clarification from CR. If CR says that spies can only kill in pair, you're off the hook. That's pretty simple.

Since this seems to be the main point:

Warrior; A powerful attacker, who can group up with another warrior or attack on his own. For defending people, functions as a soldier.

Spies; the mafia. They can kill together and also investigate townspeople to find roles and susceptibility to conversion.

This is clear, although somehow I doubt you'll agree :juggle2:

If my evidence was so poor, you wouldn't have been lynched.

Classic :laugh4:

Beskar

03-16-2010, 20:23

Not seen the picture of Sasaki in the Gameroom Assembly section? That is all I need to say.

TinCow

03-16-2010, 20:29

This is clear, although somehow I doubt you'll agree :juggle2:

I've asked CR to clarify. If he meant to be clear, it shouldn't be an issue for him to confirm it. Interesting that I was the one who had to do the leg work on this.

Crazed Rabbit

03-16-2010, 20:39

The information I posted is correct - spies can kill together - but perhaps not complete.

CR

TinCow

03-16-2010, 20:43

The information I posted is correct - spies can kill together - but perhaps not complete.

CR

So, Sasaki... is it still clear to you that the mafia can't kill solo? :inquisitive:

Sasaki Kojiro

03-16-2010, 20:49

So, Sasaki... is it still clear to you that the mafia can't kill solo? :inquisitive:

Possibly what secura said is accurate. It seems we are back to the whole other set of arguments now. But that can wait till daytime.

TinCow

03-16-2010, 20:56

Possibly what secura said is accurate. It seems we are back to the whole other set of arguments now. But that can wait till daytime.

Next time, try and remember that your perceptions are not 100% accurate either. If I had let you get away with your 'mafia kill only in pairs' argument, the town would currently be operating on an assumption that had the potential to cause serious damage.

Csargo

03-16-2010, 20:59

Now we are operating on the fact that we have no idea what the mafia can do. I think? With that "but perhaps not complete" could mean anything.

Kagemusha

03-16-2010, 21:03

Dont get mislead by smoke and mirrors. Stay focused and Kill the suspicious ones during the night.

Beskar

03-16-2010, 21:07

Dont get mislead by smoke and mirrors. Stay focused and Kill the suspicious ones during the night.

But you are already dead. :cry:

Kagemusha

03-16-2010, 21:11

But you are already dead. :cry:

Well you can come and kick my corpse through the night while others engage in more helpful business for the town.:smug2:

Methos

03-16-2010, 21:20

It seems we are back to the whole other set of arguments now. But that can wait till daytime.

I disagree. Can you guys do your rules arguing during the night phase? All of your arguing posts make it difficult to keep up with the normal posts. When I logged in this morning I was six pages behind, which I haven't entirely read yet.

Thermal

03-16-2010, 21:25

That was a fun 300 posts. :brood:

Renata

03-16-2010, 21:25

It is night, Methos. :)

Scienter

03-16-2010, 21:30

That was a fun 400 posts. :brood:

Of course I missed a lot of the important ones when I was skimming. :dizzy2:

Secura

03-16-2010, 21:31

:curtain:

Reading these debates is great. :3

Thermal

03-16-2010, 21:32

Of course I missed a lot of the important ones when I was skimming. :dizzy2:

The only important one was Securas confession I believe, I think Sigurd is right about the oral vomit, infact we are contributing to it by saying this, even. :beam:

Subotan

03-16-2010, 21:33

I've switched the amount of posts per page to 80, instead of 30. It makes reading the big threads a lot easier.

Secura

03-16-2010, 21:38

The only important one was Securas confession I believe, I think Sigurd is right about the oral vomit, infact we are contributing to it by saying this, even. :beam:

"Confession", "statement of intent", "WIFOM", "Xanatos Speed Chess"... swings and roundabouts. It's all semantics. :P

It's going to be a very fun week!

Thermal

03-16-2010, 21:44

I've switched the amount of posts per page to 80, instead of 30. It makes reading the big threads a lot easier.

I already do that, but its still a horrifying read.

@ Secura

Yeah....well you seem to know more than us, you can just sit back relax and watch the fireworks....

:sweatdrop:

Csargo

03-16-2010, 21:46

"Boo-hoo I have to read OVER 9000 posts" "God I hate lurkers blah blah blah"

:laugh4:

Thermal

03-16-2010, 21:49

"Boo-hoo I have to read OVER 9000 posts" "God I hate lurkers blah blah blah"

:laugh4:

...

:speechless:

FoS: Csargo

:grin:

Beskar

03-16-2010, 21:52

Here is me, Sasaki and ATPG in the same room.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/30xanatos.png

Centurion1

03-16-2010, 22:13

gah sooooooo much vomit.

Kagemusha

03-16-2010, 22:30

Centurion1

03-16-2010, 22:33

What is this vomit talk. One of the mafia was caught. Activity of the players rose to a new level with only 6 guys not voting. Strategy for town was argued and certain things of certain people was revealed. Without the "vomit" much of that would not have happened.

too much reading of mostly inane posts.

and i want to raise my issue of scumminess with you.

you said that i am scummy because i voted sfor secura. ill let you know i took flak for voting for her over sigurd and have voted her far before many others did. yeah that really sounds like backing a sinking ship, huh.

Secura

03-16-2010, 22:35

you said that i am scummy because i voted sfor secura. ill let you know i took flak for voting for her over sigurd and have voted her far before many others did. yeah that really sounds like backing a sinking ship, huh.

You voted with no real reasoning but "to tie up the votes". That's pretty weak.

Ergo, I agree with Kagemusha, you should still remain on everyone's suspect list.

Reenk Roink

03-16-2010, 22:36

Who wants to join me for a vig hit on Sigurd?

Kagemusha

03-16-2010, 22:41

Who wants to join me for a vig hit on Sigurd?

I would but im dead.:embarassed:

Diamondeye

03-16-2010, 22:44

"Confession", "statement of intent", "WIFOM", "Xanatos Speed Chess"... swings and roundabouts. It's all semantics. :P

It's going to be a very fun week!

Here is me, Sasaki and ATPG in the same room.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/30xanatos.png

(link seems broken so I copied it into URL)
I must say: I love you both for these references :beam: Keep it coming even if people think it's vomit.

Who wants to join me for a vig hit on Sigurd?

Who wants to join me for a protection of Sigurd?

Secura

03-16-2010, 22:52

(link seems broken so I copied it into URL)
I must say: I love you both for these references :beam: Keep it coming even if people think it's vomit.

TVTropes is one of my favourite sites; just sit and read through the page on "Xanatos Speed Chess", it's freakin' awesome. :D

Who wants to join me for a protection of Sigurd?

Whoa, it's hotting up now! Me likey!

Diamondeye

03-16-2010, 23:18

TVTropes is one of my favourite sites; just sit and read through the page on "Xanatos Speed Chess", it's freakin' awesome. :D
Whoa, it's hotting up now! Me likey!

Look I'm a TvTropes addict. I've read anything about Xanatos gambits (and Schrödinger, and Terry Pratchet, and Death Note, and Douglas Adams, etc...)

Jolt

03-17-2010, 01:20

It is the peculiar quality of a fool to perceive the faults of others and to forget his own.
- Marcus Tullius Cicero

FoS: TinCow

For impersonating my character. :P

Beefy187

03-17-2010, 01:29

:curtain:

Reading these debates is great. :3

Are you trying to take over my identity? :curtain:

Secura

03-17-2010, 01:30

Are you trying to take over my identity? :curtain:

Not at all, Mittan! :curtain:

Hahaha...

johnhughthom

03-17-2010, 01:32

You should start posting those Peter Griffin smilies Beefy. :3

Secura

03-17-2010, 01:35

But it has no glasses! Or nose! Or mouth! It's a 'cute' face, not a FREAKIN' SWEET face.

Nobody told me that curtain-twitching was off-limits! :<

Sasaki Kojiro

03-17-2010, 01:48

You know, white eyes is kind of lurking this game.

White_eyes:D

03-17-2010, 02:05

Not really....I was reading/checking stuff in "Dark falls"....I have yet to even comment in "Mafia XI":laugh4:

Sasaki Kojiro

03-17-2010, 02:17

^^^Guilty.

White_eyes:D

03-17-2010, 02:21

At least I didn't vig anyone:laugh4:(wanna help me Sasaki?:beam:)

a completely inoffensive name

03-17-2010, 05:10

lol 200 posts while I was at school today. why bother trying to keep up. if any mafia are looking to recruit, send me a PM. But make me a decent offer, im not that easy.

Double A

03-17-2010, 06:26

Yeah it's pretty much impossible to keep up with you guys. If the Gameroom was the Daytona 500, and this thread was a car, it would have won before the race even started.

Joooray

03-17-2010, 14:59

Sorry I didn't vote. Wasn't there when the bandwagon on Secura apparently started. I tried to read up on the thread, but as Double A and ACIN say its near impossible when you got other things to do as well.

Secura

03-17-2010, 16:25

if any mafia are looking to recruit, send me a PM. But make me a decent offer, im not that easy.

We have cookies?

Scienter

03-17-2010, 16:30

We have cookies?

I have some Girl Scout Cookies in the fridge. :pleased:

Beskar

03-17-2010, 16:55

Scienter is Secura's cookie dealer. :O

slashandburn

03-17-2010, 19:21

Would like a night action, please?

Askthepizzaguy

03-17-2010, 20:31

Would like a night action, please?

Don't we all, slash... don't we all.

Bow chicka bow wow. :eyebrows:

Yaropolk

03-17-2010, 20:57

What's your avatar anyway? Is that a zombie nazi in a WW2 helm? Very suspicious if you ask me

Subotan

03-17-2010, 20:59

...Says the guy with a weasel nailed to his forehead.

Kagemusha

03-17-2010, 21:00

...Says the guy with a weasel nailed to his forehead.

LoL!:laugh4:

Askthepizzaguy

03-17-2010, 21:01

What's your avatar anyway? Is that a zombie nazi in a WW2 helm? Very suspicious if you ask me

I'm the dreaded zombie-commie-nazi.

https://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb225/askthepizzaguy/commienazis.jpg

Yaropolk

03-17-2010, 21:30

...Says the guy with a weasel nailed to his forehead.

It's a sable (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monomakh's_Cap)

Crazed Rabbit

03-17-2010, 21:50

Stop ******* spamming my game thread.
:stare:

CR

Yaropolk

03-17-2010, 21:51

My mind starts to wander after 24 hours....

Crazed Rabbit

03-17-2010, 21:52

My mind starts to wander after 24 hours....

Then you shouldn't wander here. And remove that picture.

CR

Beskar

03-17-2010, 22:01

I think we should be completely silent in the day-phase, so we don't spam up CR's thread anymore.

Yaropolk

03-17-2010, 22:03

Last one I promise:

Subotan started it by posting a picture of a little beaver...I just replied in concert

ZING!

Double A

03-17-2010, 22:07

I think we should be completely silent in the day-phase, so we don't spam up CR's thread anymore.

Hear hear!

atheotes

03-17-2010, 22:55

I think we should be completely silent in the day-phase, so we don't spam up CR's thread anymore.

you would like that...wont you? so that you can swoop in before the dead line and get me lynched by your single vote and brag about it to your scum buddies :stare:

Myrddraal

03-18-2010, 00:21

Ok, caught up with the thread again.

I think it's time for everyone to (politely) put Secura on Ignore. She's clearly not pro-town, whatever her actual role is, and everything that she says from now on will be designed to side-track discussion, WIFOM, double WIFOM, triple WIFOM, plant seeds of suspicion here there and everywhere, and generally try to create red herrings.

Cultured Drizzt fan

03-18-2010, 00:25

Gah, am I still alive? :sweatdrop: I missed the day phase didn't I? Sorry.

Secura

03-18-2010, 00:40

I think it's time for everyone to (politely) put Secura on Ignore.

There was never going to be a polite way of saying that. ¬_¬

I'd prefer that people not do that, personally; it's fun for me to post in here, and it's hardly as though all my posts are going to be WIFOM or anything. Besides, it keeps you guys on your toes. :3

Double A

03-18-2010, 01:59

"Hello Secura, would you mind if I put you on ignore? If you would, I could always just scroll over your posts and then talk with you on your user page."

?

Secura

03-18-2010, 02:13

I would mind, yes, but I doubt that would stop you or anyone else anyway.

a completely inoffensive name

03-18-2010, 02:18

What phase are we in?

Thermal

03-18-2010, 02:22

Ok, caught up with the thread again.

I think it's time for everyone to (politely) put Secura on Ignore.

Whilst she isn't particularly productive for us, there is no need to put her on ignore, I am quite comfortable with reading her posts without the temptation to believe or succumb to what she says.

Crazed Rabbit

03-18-2010, 06:36

Orders closed 3 hours ago.

Sorry for being late; It's St Patrick's Day.

And I won't have the write up done for a while. Orders are all set up, I just need random.org.

So take the extra time to reflect on what St Patrick has done for you and what you can do for St Patrick's day.

CR

Diamondeye

03-18-2010, 11:35

Beskar

03-18-2010, 14:09

St. Patricks day = Get drunk on guisness and wear Green day.

Aka, Crazed Rabbit is currently drunk off his head and will have a massive hangover. 24 hour wait till write-up.

Crazed Rabbit

03-18-2010, 15:38

Ha! Through the magic of science and my knowledge of chemistry, I avoided a hangover. Write up coming soon

CR

Crazed Rabbit

03-18-2010, 19:11

The Shadow Fort, day four.

Four men tramped through the snow. One held a length a rope. Another held a flask of ale. A third led a donkey. The fourth man walked ahead, looking for their target.

Jolt was walking from the tavern to his room, cautiously scanning around him. A figure ducked behind a building ahead of him. Jolt saw him, but kept moving.

As he walked past the spot the figure had been standing, the path narrowed. On each side there was a wall, and now Jolt could only go forwards or backwards.

It was then that he began to hear the chanting. From in front and behind came the words “sasaki kojiro” slowly repeated. Jolt stopped.

Two men appeared at each end of the path, weapons drawn.

“You cannot escape, Jolt. It is commanded that you die,” one intoned.

“Who said anything about escaping?” asked Jolt as he readied his halberd, smiling.

The four men rushed him. Jolt swung the pole arm to the left to strike the men in front of him. The man on Jolt’s right brought up his club to stop the halberd, but the momentum was too great. The axe end swept past his guard and went through his collarbone. He collapsed and screamed, grasping at the blood pouring out. The other man approaching Jolt from the front stumbled and fell in order to avoid the halberd.

Jolt turned quickly to deal with the men behind him. A mace swung down at him. The halberd seemed to move effortlessly as that attack was deflected. The halberd continued to swing, and the base swept the feet of the other attacker off the ground. Jolt stopped swinging, adjusted his grip, pivoted the halberd again and bore the mace swinging man onto the ground.

Again Jolt turned and raised his halberd. The man who had fallen next to his bloody comrade was almost up. There was a soft, gentle whoosh as the halberd swung again, bearing down on the cloaked man, who threw himself backward, yelling in terror. A loud clanging noise rent the night air as the halberd hit the ground and split a cobblestone. Jolt stepped forward and raised the halberd again. The man on the ground threw his club at Jolt, then got to his feet and ran. The club went wide and struck the arm of his comrade behind Jolt, who was getting up.

Jolt turned and swung the halberd again. Jolt’s target flung his sword up and sidestepped to avoid the axe head. The other cloaked man, seeing the fleeing man, decided it was a good idea and fled too. Only one man remained now. He jumped backwards to avoid the halberd. Jolt, seeing his enemies scattered, drew the axe head back again and began to step forward quickly.

The last cloaked man, seeing this, fled as well. Jolt ran after him for a couple steps, then decided to let them run. He went back over the man he had killed and nudged his head with his foot.

The lifeless face of Winston Hughes stared back at him.

In a different part of the fort, Sigurd was making his way through a snow-covered alley. As he came out, he saw a single man step forward from the darkness and draw a sword.

“Prepare to…” began the man, as he looked around him and saw no one else, “well, that is…”

He trailed off, but still had his sword out. After a pause he advanced on Sigurd. As he did, four masked figures emerged from the shadows around Sigurd and placed themselves in front of him. All four had swords drawn.

The attacker cursed and turned to run.

“Wait, is that you Csargo?” asked one of the defenders.

Csargo looked back and cursed again, “No it isn’t!” and took off running.

Outside the doors of the keep, a man waited in the darkness, crossbow held ready. He had stood here steadily for over an hour, unmoving. Occasionally a little snow would fall. The man blinked only rarely, and never moved his eyes from the door.

Finally Subotan stepped out. The man with the crossbow immediately adjusted his aim and fired.

Subotan was standing on the top of the stone stairs when he heard the faint click of the crossbow firing. He reacted from instinct and ducked. The bolt missed by inches. Even before it passed overhead Subotan was drawing his sword.

Out of the darkness a man roared and ran, sword ready to strike. Subotan barely got his sword out fast enough to deflect the blow as he side stepped.

“Guards!,” Subotan yelled. The attacker did not hesitate, and rained a flurry of blows upon Subotan. Subotan could not keep up. He blocked the heaviest swings, but other strikes grazed him.

The guards were coming now, but the attacker continued. He pressed the attack, forcing Subotan backwards, away from the door, away from the guards. His sword was a blur in the night. With a small stutter step to the side, he feinted and then struck. Subotan, backpedaling quickly, fell for the feint and could only watch in terror as the sword swung towards his unprotected neck. Just then, one of his feet slipped on some ice and he fell down fast. The sword cut through his hair.

The guards had made it outside and yelled for the attacker to halt. He looked back quickly even as he brought his sword up to finish off Subotan. Even now Subotan had not given up, though. As soon as he hit the ground his foot lashed out and caught his attacker in the knee, throwing him off balance.

The attacker saw that the guards were almost on him, so he turned and ran into the darkness. Subotan would not be able to sleep soundly that night.

Centurion1 had just finished his drink in the tavern. He bid farewell to his drinking companions and set off to his room. He was only twenty paces from the tavern exit when three crossbows fired at him. Two missed, but one struck him beneath the ribs. Centurion cried out in pain, clasping one hand to his side as the other drew his sword. Three men ran out from the shadows and blocked the path back to the tavern.

Sword drawn, Centurion cursed his attackers, “Come and fight me with steel, cowards!”

The three men drew their swords and obliged. The fight was over quickly. Centurion blocked one strike and swung out, but his sword was deflected and two other strikes landed. Centurion lashed out again in a wide sweep, but the men dodged back. One moved in quickly, plunging his sword into Centurion’s stomach. Centurion’s stance slackened and he dropped his sword.

He looked up at his smiling attacker, and recognized the smile.

“Methos?”
The attacker stopped smiling, and drew back, pulling his hood down.

“Methos!” yelled Centurion as he fell to the ground, using the last of his strength. The cry went up into the dark night, and even the boisterous drinkers in the tavern heard.

Methos ran off into the night. One of the others stayed and put tea leaves over Centurion’s eyes.

In the morning the people gathered inside the keep. Gerard was cursing at a guard who had let Subotan’s get away.

After a while he stopped and then glared out at the crowd, “The attacks and murders have not stopped. Find the people who are doing this!” he yelled.

With that he stomped back to his chair and stewed, looking out over the crowd angrily.

Hans stood silently nearby for a few minutes, and then said softly, “I thought you liked fresh snowfalls. The ground outside is glistening in the sun.”

“I loved what came with the snow. Now all that comes is death,” Gerard snapped.

Begin voting! The day phase will last for 24 hours, until 11 am PST Friday March 19th.

Alive:
Beskar
a completely inoffensive name
Diamondeye
Csargo
Jolt
atheotes
Sasaki Kojiro
Joooray
GeneralHankerchief
TinCow
pevergreen
Askthepizzaguy
White_eyes:D
Subotan
Reenk Roink
Yaropolk
Sigurd
TheFlax
Yaseikhaan
slashandburn
Double A
Beefy187
Myrddraal
Cultured Drizzt fan
Scienter
Renata
spL1tp3r50naL1ty
Captain Blackadder
Seon
Methos
Thermal Mercury
autolycus
johnhughtom
Ibn-Khaldun
Psychonaut

Lynched:
Kagemusha D2
Secura D3

Killed:
Chaotix N2
Seamus Fermanagh N2
A Very Super Market N2
Winston Hughes N3
Centurion1 N3

Sasaki Kojiro

03-18-2010, 19:32

jolt seems very tough. csargo attacks alone for kicks? Subotans attacker seems to have been a bad guy. Cent vigged by a soldier group.

Winston, why did your group attack jolt?

TheFlax

03-18-2010, 19:34

Sooo... Four attacks this night it seems.

Attack 1: 3 Unknowns + Winston Hughes attack Jolt. Sasaki possibly involved, but I wouldn't put too much faith into the repeated words. Attack fails and one of the attackers dies, marking Jolt as having probably a powerful role.

Attack 2: Csargo (Apparently) attacks Sigurd who is protected by 4 Unknowns. The attack fails.

Attack 3: 1 Unknown (Spy or Warrior?) attacks Subotan who is almost killed and is lucky to have survived.

Attack 4: 2 Unknown + Methos attack and kill Centurion1. Methos and his accomplices are most likely Soldiers.

Provided all the information we have is correct, that makes at least 13 people who have initiated Night Actions (Out of 37 at the time). I wonder if most of the others initiated Protection groups or simply did nothing. FYI, I didn't take part in anything in the last Night Phase, I was pretty busy with other stuff.

Renata

03-18-2010, 19:35

I don't think he can tell you; he's dead.

Subotan

03-18-2010, 19:37

Eh, I needed a trim. Thanks murderer-man, I was getting tired of this shaggy bowl-cut.

Winston Hughes

03-18-2010, 19:37

Winston, why did your group attack jolt?

If they want to explain that, then they can.

I'm just going to slink off feeling miserable about dying the very first time I tried to use any kind of ability in a game at the org.

Sasaki Kojiro

03-18-2010, 19:39

I don't think he can tell you; he's dead.

Maybe he can still point at posts from in game. Or one of his partners can.

Cent's defense of himself looked pretty wussy unfortunately.

TheFlax

03-18-2010, 19:39

If they want to explain that, then they can.

I'm just going to slink off feeling miserable about dying the very first time I tried to use any kind of ability in a game at the org.

Or you could answer without exposing your buddies. Did you have some sort of information on Jolt or was this more or less random?

Renata

03-18-2010, 19:39

You've had horrible luck the last few days.

Ibn-Khaldun

03-18-2010, 19:40

Must say that those who attacked Jolt were rather pathetic.
I think these are the same people who attacked CDf last night.
Winston, next time find better vigilante buddies!
Must say that Sigurd was pretty well guarded but Csargo.. the same I said to Winston.. perhaps you find someone who actually show up?
Attack against Subotan is very similar to the attack against Centurion1.
In both cases crossbows were used.
If these were mafia attacks then.. alone they are rather weak.
However, I'm not sure CR would give away name of mafia player like that..
Methos and Csargo, care to explain something?

Edit: Damn you people for posting in the same time as me!! :beam:

Renata

03-18-2010, 19:45

You're implying Jolt was attacked by less than a full vig team? He wasn't -- it clearly says four people.

Sasaki Kojiro

03-18-2010, 19:46

It seems more like Jolt is tough to kill, what with the chopping cobblestones in half.

TheFlax

03-18-2010, 19:47

I think here its more of a case of Jolt being strong than the vig team being weak. As in most of these actions, they were probably a mix of travelers and soldiers. Winston Hughes most probably being a traveler.

Edit: Sasaki always seems to be one minute ahead of me. :laugh4:

Ibn-Khaldun

03-18-2010, 19:49

No, I'm saying that those who attacked Jolt were most likely Travellers.
First time they didn't succeed against CDf because someone missed his orders(Sasaki?) but this time Jolt was better than them.
Jolt could be Warrior or Sergeant considering how easily he defended himself against 4 attackers.

TheFlax

03-18-2010, 19:50

Erm... Did I miss something? How do we know its the same group that attacked CDF?

Renata

03-18-2010, 19:51

We don't, unless Ibn knows something I don't.

Winston Hughes

03-18-2010, 19:52

You've had horrible luck the last few days.

Ain't that the truth. I've died three times this week already.

Ibn-Khaldun

03-18-2010, 19:52

I just guessed.. :shrug:

Last time there were 3 attackers but similar situation and most of us agreed that CDf got away because someone missed his orders.

Subotan

03-18-2010, 19:53

You're implying Jolt was attacked by less than a full vig team? He wasn't -- it clearly says four people.
Combined with Renata's analysis, this makes a vig group unlikely:

“You cannot escape, Jolt. It is commanded that you die,” one intoned.
Oh oh, we've got a cult infestation...

TheFlax

03-18-2010, 19:54

I just guessed.. :shrug:

Last time there were 3 attackers but similar situation and most of us agreed that CDf got away because someone missed his orders.

But the attack against Jolt is clearly composed of Winston Hughes +3 others, I just don't make the connection. This group didn't fail because of poor coordination, they were simply out of their league.

Sasaki Kojiro

03-18-2010, 19:54

Subotan was clearly one of jolts attackers.

Ibn-Khaldun

03-18-2010, 19:55

But the attack against Jolt is clearly composed of Winston Hughes +3 others, I just don't make the connection. This group didn't fail because of poor coordination, they were simply out of their league.

Everything is possible.. :shrug:

Subotan was clearly one of jolts attackers.

Why you think that?

Thermal

03-18-2010, 19:58

Erm... Did I miss something? How do we know its the same group that attacked CDF?

Hes saying that because he assumes that they are the same group, as they both failed, I don't buy it personally.

Subotan

03-18-2010, 19:58

Subotan was clearly one of jolts attackers.
Oh? What's so clear about me suggesting that it wasn't a vig group from info in the write-up?

TinCow

03-18-2010, 19:58

Vote: Methos

An explanation is needed here. First, why did you target Centurion1? He was not a lurker, so what was the reason for his death? Second, since the kill was successful, despite there only being three people, that means it wasn't composed of travellers. That could be 3 soldiers or 3 mafioso. Please explain how 3 soldiers were able to locate each other so quickly at this stage of the game.

TinCow

03-18-2010, 19:59

Ack, forgot to bold and can't edit post with a vote to do so.

Vote: Methos

Sasaki Kojiro

03-18-2010, 20:01

Oh? What's so clear about me suggesting that it wasn't a vig group from info in the write-up?

Why did you target jolt?

Vote:slashandburn

Csargo

03-18-2010, 20:04

:laugh4:

Diamondeye

03-18-2010, 20:04

I have the same worries about Methos as Tincow has. We need a serious explanation and I am going to pressure vote: Methos because he's the only identified attacker from that group.

Subotan

03-18-2010, 20:05

I have no idea why WH's group attacked Jolt. I wasn't contacted for a vig hit or anything. You'd be better off asking WH as to why he attacked him.

Sasaki Kojiro

03-18-2010, 20:06

To me, the only interesting thing to ask the vig group members is whether or not they had good evidence for their attack. You can be mafia in a vig group but there is no particular reason to think so. One would think the mafia are less likely to be revealed on a die roll than a soldier would.

Diamondeye

03-18-2010, 20:14

Sasaki Kojiro

03-18-2010, 20:16

You are assuming that no mafia are soldiers? Is this written anywhere?

The spies are probably spies...and it isn't written, but don't you think the mafia are going to be tougher to kill, more likely to succeed, and less likely to be revealed? The game wouldn't be very balanced otherwise I think.

They could pose as soldiers no doubt, but there is no particular reason to think that they have.

Thermal

03-18-2010, 20:17

Yaropolk

03-18-2010, 20:25

If this was Romance of the Three Kingdoms mafia, Jolt would be Lu Bu (http://koei.wikia.com/wiki/Lu_Bu). But since this is medieval mafia, Lucy you've got some 'splainin to do!

Pressure Vote: Jolt

TinCow

03-18-2010, 20:29

Secura

03-18-2010, 20:34

The weapon choice is especially interesting, the weapon is mentioned a lot, Halberd, is used by turks a lot I believe (might not want to hold me to it...).

Because halberds are really the weapon of someone who's meant to infiltrate and assassinate, amirite? :P

Renata

03-18-2010, 20:35

vote: Tincow

I'm not so sure about anyone voting for Jolt or Methos based on current evidence: there's mafia motivation all over trying to remove stronger roles from the game, if they are not mafia themselves. But Tincow also smudged Sigurd yesterday when he named him (incorrectly, as Secura was ahead in the vote count at the time) as the intended beneficiary of Secura's reveal. Sigurd seems increasingly likely to be a pro-town role, and was certainly making noises to that effect yesterday as well, so the motivation there is also clear.

Sasaki Kojiro

03-18-2010, 20:36

I think naming his partners is a bad thing however. The mafia don't need that information.

It's plausible that mafia would join a vig group, although you'd their skills might be revealed. What if methos's group had attacked jolt, would not the superior fighting skills have been forced to stand out? I see no particular reason to suspect a member of a vig group over someone who was not in a vig group.

atheotes

03-18-2010, 20:37

what did the chant of "Sasaki Kojiro" mean? does CR allow players input in the writeups?

Does anyone know the significance of this ? "One of the others stayed and put tea leaves over Centurion’s eyes."

Csargo attacked solo and survived in spite of the defenders. Even though the reveal is comical, i think he could be a powerful role as well.

vote: Csargo

Jolt

03-18-2010, 20:37

If they want to explain that, then they can.

I'm just going to slink off feeling miserable about dying the very first time I tried to use any kind of ability in a game at the org.

I'm pretty glad you're feeling miserable to be honest.

Here's what happened: I was approached bty Winston Hughes to murder a guy (he didn't specify)

Since he didn't state who or why and I'm not gonna go blindly into vig killing people without reason while he knows exactly what's going on, I asked him who it was he wanted to attack and for what reason, then I'd decide if I join or not. He didn't answer me back, and turns out he doesn't like people being too informed as to what he is up to and decided to attack me.

Pretty much worthless scum, and I'm coming after the others who attacked me. unless they come clean and tell me why I was attacked.

TheFlax

03-18-2010, 20:38

Sasaki Kojiro

03-18-2010, 20:39

Renata

03-18-2010, 20:40

Why are you defending him?

Crazed Rabbit

03-18-2010, 20:40

what did the chant of "Sasaki Kojiro" mean? does CR allow players input in the writeups?

Yes, player input into write ups is allowed.

CR

Sasaki Kojiro

03-18-2010, 20:40

Those are pressure votes though and that accusation of TinCow is pretty tenuous.

Do you think TinCow is innocent?

Methos

03-18-2010, 20:41

Talk about unlucky. My first vig action of the game and I'm spotted. Yes, I did it and our group was in agreement that Cent was very suspicious. We all agreed to it. As to pressuring me for more info, don't bother. The update gave up enough info about me to allow you to come to your own opinion.

TheFlax

03-18-2010, 20:42

Do you think TinCow is innocent?

I don't think he's guilty based on what we know, there is a difference. I just found the reasoning pretty farfetched when we have more concrete info from the writeup.

Methos

03-18-2010, 20:46

what did the chant of "Sasaki Kojiro" mean? does CR allow players input in the writeups?

Does anyone know the significance of this ? "One of the others stayed and put tea leaves over Centurion’s eyes."

One of my group stated they were putting tea leaves over Cent's eyes, so yes, a player can insert something into the update.

Jolt

03-18-2010, 20:47

Yes, player input into write ups is allowed.

CR

And this mean there was a clear scape goat in my assassination attempt.

Regardless, Sasaki isn't one to incriminate himself or play the brinksman, so I don't really believe he's involved.

atheotes

03-18-2010, 20:49

did not notice my pm box was full :(

Thermal

03-18-2010, 20:49

Because halberds are really the weapon of someone who's meant to infiltrate and assassinate, amirite? :P

This is why I'm glad I'm not the only one doing the thinking here....

:laugh4:

Vote will change if I want it to.

Sasaki Kojiro

03-18-2010, 20:50

unvote:slashandburn, vote:Csargo

Renata

03-18-2010, 20:51

Farfetched? Try this, then:

Vote: Methos

An explanation is needed here. First, why did you target Centurion1? He was not a lurker, so what was the reason for his death? Second, since the kill was successful, despite there only being three people, that means it wasn't composed of travellers. That could be 3 soldiers or 3 mafioso. Please explain how 3 soldiers were able to locate each other so quickly at this stage of the game.

I agree that Methos is not likely to be a mafioso for the same reason you noted earlier: I doubt spies are likely to be revealed during an attack. However, I find it entirely plausible that a mafioso would join a vig group to get a kill while still retaining an alibi. Thus, one of Methos' partners could be a mafioso. Methos needs to explain why Centurian was attacked and how he found his partners, for that reason.

So first Methos is a potential Mafia and the vote is for that reason, then after Sasaki calls him on it, Methos is not likely to be a Mafia, and the vote is only for pressure. So add being a little too eager to please (and being unattached to his own reasoning) to the rest.

Jolt

03-18-2010, 20:51

vote: jolt

Just because hes been attacked, it doesn't make him innocent, clearly strong, like a turkish spy maybe.

The weapon choice is especially interesting, the weapon is mentioned a lot, Halberd, is used by turks a lot I believe (might not want to hold me to it...).

Wait. I'm attacked plus I survive equals I'm a turkish spy?

And yeah you might not want to start spouting random incorrect historical facts because it is exactly that, that is making me suspicious of you more than anyone else. Provided I don't see an explanation as to why you voted for me (And being attacked doesn't do it for me), you're gonna get my vote and my initial attention.

atheotes

03-18-2010, 20:55

Farfetched? Try this, then:

So first Methos is a potential Mafia and the vote is for that reason, then after Sasaki calls him on it, Methos is not likely to be a Mafia, and the vote is only for pressure. So add being a little too eager to please (and being unattached to his own reasoning) to the rest.

Here is one more: Tincow doesn't seem to be involved in protection or vig groups.

Sasaki Kojiro

03-18-2010, 20:56

White eyes was suspicious as well. So I don't forget: fos:white_eyes

TinCow

03-18-2010, 20:56

I think naming his partners is a bad thing however. The mafia don't need that information.

I agree, I would only press for their names if the explanation for the choice of target was found to be lacking.

TheFlax

03-18-2010, 20:59

Farfetched? Try this, then:

*Stuff*

So first Methos is a potential Mafia and the vote is for that reason, then after Sasaki calls him on it, Methos is not likely to be a Mafia, and the vote is only for pressure. So add being a little too eager to please (and being unattached to his own reasoning) to the rest.

I'll let TinCow defend himself he feels the need to, but I don't find what he said suspicious or inconsistent and was simply expressing my opinion about the accusation, not jumping to his defense.

Askthepizzaguy

03-18-2010, 21:00

What is your role, Jolt?

vote: Jolt

Sasaki Kojiro

03-18-2010, 21:07

Yeah, ok.

Vote: Sigurd

When I have to actively think of reasons for why I shouldn't vote for someone, I need to just stop thinking and vote. Consider this payback for Netherworld II. :bow:

This is an odd vote for TinCow. Tied sigurd with Secura. He hadn't said much about suspects up until this point in the day. Why "yeah, ok"?

*********

It'll be interesting to see Secura's flip.

Methos

03-18-2010, 21:08

What is your role, Jolt?

vote: Jolt

I'm curious about this as well. Vote: Jolt.

Jolt

03-18-2010, 21:10

What is your role, Jolt?

vote: Jolt

*Looks at bandwagon 3rd vote*

*nods*

Vote: Askthepizzaguy

TinCow

03-18-2010, 21:11

Why "yeah, ok"?

I was responding to your post (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126647-The-Shadow-Fort-(In-Play)&p=2449820&viewfull=1#post2449820), in which you told ATPG to vote for Sigurd.

Askthepizzaguy

03-18-2010, 21:13

*Looks at bandwagon 3rd vote*

*nods*

Vote: Askthepizzaguy

Is there some reason you can't answer the question?

Renata

03-18-2010, 21:13

*Looks at bandwagon 3rd vote*

*nods*

Vote: Askthepizzaguy

Oh that's just lame.

Jolt

03-18-2010, 21:15

*Looks at bandwagon 3rd vote*

*nods*

Vote: Askthepizzaguy

Town, if I'm lynched (I'm too :daisy: pissed at being attacked for no reason) I want you to look at the people voting for me and finishing what the other people couldn't.

This bandwagon against me makes as much sense as the attack against me. Regardless, if I live, I'm gonna be investigated this very next night and a lot of people will be informed as to my role.

If I'm lynched, however if voting for me will simply become Mafia suspects.

If anything, I'm not gonna be coerced to revealing by votes. And it'd be pretty damn bat:daisy: insane to do what I'm doing or being as pissed off as I am for being attacked if I was Mafia.

Askthepizzaguy

03-18-2010, 21:16

If anything, I'm not gonna be coerced to revealing by votes. And it'd be pretty damn bat:daisy: insane to do what I'm doing or being as pissed off as I am for being attacked if I was Mafia.

You can't reveal, because you're mafia. And so, you use WIFOM instead.

I know I'll die if I keep pressing this point, and that's okay as long as you die first.

Jolt

03-18-2010, 21:17

Is there some reason you can't answer the question?

Is there any reason you're voting for me? Besides being attacked?

Subotan

03-18-2010, 21:18

One of my group stated they were putting tea leaves over Cent's eyes, so yes, a player can insert something into the update.
As Tea came from the Far East, relative to Austria, it is not unlikely that the tea i question would have been transported through...Turkey.

Also, who would waste something as valuable as tea leaves on a corpse?

The weapon choice is especially interesting, the weapon is mentioned a lot, Halberd, is used by turks a lot I believe (might not want to hold me to it...).
That doesn't strike me as being exceptionally Turkish. A Landsknecht would fit though.

I'm curious about this as well. Vote: Jolt.
:stare:

Vote:Methos

Askthepizzaguy

03-18-2010, 21:18

Is there any reason you're voting for me? Besides being attacked?

Man who can't answer a question starts asking questions... interesting.

Jolt

03-18-2010, 21:19

You can't reveal, because you're mafia. And so, you use WIFOM instead.

I know I'll die if I keep pressing this point, and that's okay as long as you die first.

Here's what is going to happen: I'm gonna be lynched, three days from now you'll get your answers, and the town's suspicions.

EDIT: I'll give you a hint to my role. When I was either Mafia or a Pro-Town power role, I never played brinksmanship.

Askthepizzaguy

03-18-2010, 21:20

Here's what is going to happen: I'm gonna be lynched, three days from now you'll get your answers, and the town's suspicions.

I am so worried.

Renata

03-18-2010, 21:20

@ Jolt: I don't really think you are a spy -- halberds are Swiss, for one thing, Thermal Mercury. But why should a detective waste their time on you? You're right here. You've already been outed as *something*; it's not like you're facing a blind bandwagon and having to decide if and how to reveal. What does it logically cost you to name your role?

Note I'm not voting for you here. I hate pressure votes. But I don't understand your behavior right now, if you are pro-town.

Askthepizzaguy

03-18-2010, 21:21

EDIT: I'll give you a hint to my role. When I was either Mafia or a Pro-Town power role, I never played brinksmanship.

Then you'll have no problems answering a simple question about your role.

Jolt

03-18-2010, 21:23

I don't really think you are a spy -- halberds are Swiss, for one thing, Thermal Mercury. But why should a detective waste their time on you? You're right here. You've already been outed as *something*; it's not like you're facing a blind bandwagon and having to decide if and how to reveal. What does it logically cost you to name your role?

Note I'm not voting for you here. I hate pressure votes. But I don't understand your behavior right now, if you are pro-town.

Simple, that means the Mafia investigators (Provided that there are such) will also waste a night's vote on me. And after they see my role's importance, I don't think I'll be bothered to be attacked by the Mafia any time soon.

Renata

03-18-2010, 21:24

So you're claiming some sort of third party.

Sasaki Kojiro

03-18-2010, 21:25

Jolt is probably innocent. But should claim anyway. We are just going to get stuck on it otherwise.

Secura

03-18-2010, 21:25

It'll be interesting to see Secura's flip.

What does this mean? :o

TheFlax

03-18-2010, 21:25

As Tea came from the Far East, relative to Austria, it is not unlikely that the tea i question would have been transported through...Turkey.

Also, who would waste something as valuable as tea leaves on a corpse?

That doesn't strike me as being exceptionally Turkish. A Landsknecht would fit though.

:stare:

Vote:Methos

What?! :dizzy2:

If players can chose to add stuff to the writeup, why would they incriminate themselves?

Sasaki Kojiro

03-18-2010, 21:26

What does this mean? :o

You tell me, treacle.

Secura

03-18-2010, 21:27

You tell me, treacle.

Well, if I knew what you meant by "Secura's flip", then I'd answer!

Do you mean my take on events? I thought someone stated in the thread earlier that my take on things should be ignored.

Centurion1

03-18-2010, 21:28

well i was a vanilla townie yall will find out in three days.

Sasaki is not to be fully trusted. Just because he gave himself a role doesnt mean he is to be trusted.

Methos and ? were probably working for him. i wouldnt be surprised if sasakis was the other.

now im not saying sasaki is necessarily scum but dont always listen to him.

Finally just because someone escapes death does not mean they are scum im sure cr put in percentage of escapability or something i remember a few acts of god occurring in capo.

Ibn-Khaldun

03-18-2010, 21:29

What?! :dizzy2:

If players can chose to add stuff to the writeup, why would they incriminate themselves?

I agree with that..

Beskar

03-18-2010, 21:29

Vote: TinCow

I heard on the grapevine that you haven't been doing the cleanest of night actions.

Sasaki Kojiro

03-18-2010, 21:30

Vote: TinCow

I heard on the grapevine that you haven't been doing the cleanest of night actions.

Did he confess to you via pm?

Askthepizzaguy

03-18-2010, 21:32

Simple, that means the Mafia investigators (Provided that there are such) will also waste a night's vote on me. And after they see my role's importance, I don't think I'll be bothered to be attacked by the Mafia any time soon.

So, you're willing to reveal that you're an important role with a halberd weapon who should be investigated by the mafia, and also that you'll take revenge on everyone who attacked you last night, and you're only concerned with getting revenge on those folks... but you're not willing to tell the innocent among us exactly what you are? So all the security concerns are already gone, but you're still not going to offer the information which could relieve you of suspicion and allow us to get on with the game, presumably out of either stubbornness (which won't help) or guilt (you've got nothing safe to claim)?

You've giving me no reason to remove my vote.

Secura

03-18-2010, 21:34

Did he confess to you via pm?

I am currently in Beskar's company and he seems to believe that TinCow is one of my scum buddies! :P

Also, am I the only one here who believes that Jolt is just a Sergeant? -_-'

Sasaki Kojiro

03-18-2010, 21:34

Secura

03-18-2010, 21:38

At this point we need:

further explanation from beskar regarding tincow

He has no real explaination... it's simply what he's been able to infer from my smirking.

Diamondeye

03-18-2010, 21:38

The spies are probably spies...and it isn't written, but don't you think the mafia are going to be tougher to kill, more likely to succeed, and less likely to be revealed? The game wouldn't be very balanced otherwise I think.

They could pose as soldiers no doubt, but there is no particular reason to think that they have.

The way I would think this is that mafias would be soldiers+ in terms of combat ability. Why not have them use the same definitions and measures as town?

I agree that Methos is not likely to be a mafioso for the same reason you noted earlier: I doubt spies are likely to be revealed during an attack. However, I find it entirely plausible that a mafioso would join a vig group to get a kill while still retaining an alibi. Thus, one of Methos' partners could be a mafioso. Methos needs to explain why Centurian was attacked and how he found his partners, for that reason.

Why would mafia be any less likely to be revealed? I'd think the risk would be exactly the same - especially if it's one mafia in a vig group.
I'm not too sold on Methos being innocent, to be honest. He's the best lynch candidate at the moment so my vote stays.

Jolt is probably innocent. But should claim anyway. We are just going to get stuck on it otherwise.

Agree on all points here :yes:

TinCow

03-18-2010, 21:39

At this point we need:

Role claim from jolt
Role claim and explanation from Csargo
further explanation from beskar regarding tincow

We need those things to progress. Otherwise it's going to be a long string of "pressure votes" that never get unvoted because people don't check back to the thread/feel like reading everything.

Convenient of you to not need an explanation from Methos. You said vig teams need to explain why they chose their targets. Why is Methos' team an exception?

Diamondeye

03-18-2010, 21:40

He has no real explaination... it's simply what he's been able to infer from my smirking.

This is not true until Beskar has posted it from his own account by the way. Don't listen to what Secura says.

Askthepizzaguy

03-18-2010, 21:42

He has no real explaination... it's simply what he's been able to infer from my smirking.

That poor man. You've twisted the lad's brain, haven't you?

Diamondeye

03-18-2010, 21:43

Secura

03-18-2010, 21:44

This is not true until Beskar has posted it from his own account by the way. Don't listen to what Secura says.

This is true, I'm sat right next to him. ¬_¬

Beskar

03-18-2010, 21:44

Convenient of you to not need an explanation from Methos. You said vig teams need to explain why they chose their targets. Why is Methos' team an exception?

Because Sasaki arranged that vig group with three others. I only know of two of them, one mainly because they backed out of working with me.

Also, can't go into it as some one is next to me.

Sasaki Kojiro

03-18-2010, 21:46

Convenient of you to not need an explanation from Methos. You said vig teams need to explain why they chose their targets. Why is Methos' team an exception?

Because I already know why Methos vigged cent (private discussion yesterday), and because cent was suspicious while I didn't see anything of the sort from jolt. If they have something solid on jolt it should be shared.

Csargo

03-18-2010, 21:46

Csargo attacked solo and survived in spite of the defenders. Even though the reveal is comical, i think he could be a powerful role as well.

vote: Csargo

If I had a powerful role I wouldn't have run away.

TinCow

03-18-2010, 21:46

Because Sasaki arranged that vig group with three others.

Not surprising. So, Sasaki... care to explain why Centurion1 was the target?

[edit]Ack, too slow...

cent was suspicious

Explain please.

Sasaki Kojiro

03-18-2010, 21:48

Not surprising. So, Sasaki... care to explain why Centurion1 was the target?

They thought he was mafia. Didn't you see his posts yesterday?

I didn't arrange any vig groups btw, I knew about it because I pm a lot of people.

Diamondeye

03-18-2010, 21:48

Not surprising. So, Sasaki... care to explain why Centurion1 was the target?

[edit]Ack, too slow...

Explain please.

Because I already know why Methos vigged cent (private discussion yesterday), and because cent was suspicious while I didn't see anything of the sort from jolt. If they have something solid on jolt it should be shared.

To me it looks like Sasaki didn't arrange the hit. Merely knew about it.

TinCow

03-18-2010, 21:49

They thought he was mafia. Didn't you see his posts yesterday?

This thread is difficult to keep track of at times due to posting volume. Give me the rundown, because I can't remember a thing about Cent from this entire game.

autolycus

03-18-2010, 21:53

I'm going to hold off on voting, but I would like to hear more from csargo about his activities. We only had solo attackers the second night, and he's the only solo attacker from last night. Will he claim any of the second night attacks?

Sasaki Kojiro

03-18-2010, 21:55

This thread is difficult to keep track of at times due to posting volume. Give me the rundown, because I can't remember a thing about Cent from this entire game.

He got real active when sigurd accused me and was very happy to casually make us both out of mafia without putting thought into it. Mafia react like that sometimes when they are handed a gift.

atheotes

03-18-2010, 21:55

If I had a powerful role I wouldn't have run away.
Do you mean you included that in your order?

Sasaki Kojiro

03-18-2010, 21:56

If I had a powerful role I wouldn't have run away.

Why did you attack him in the first place?

Ibn-Khaldun

03-18-2010, 22:02

Why did you attack him in the first place?

Perhaps because:

Sigurd: 6 (Beefy, pever, Psychonaut, Scienter, Seon, Subotan)

Sigurd had second most votes..

TinCow

03-18-2010, 22:06

He got real active when sigurd accused me and was very happy to casually make us both out of mafia without putting thought into it. Mafia react like that sometimes when they are handed a gift.

I'll go back and review it later tonight. It's annoying that the intra-thread search function doesn't work anymore to simplify that process.

Just to clarify, since this hit appears to be your work or at least due to your influence, you believed that Cent was the TOP suspect for mafioso as of last night?

Jolt

03-18-2010, 22:10

So, you're willing to reveal that you're an important role with a halberd weapon who should be investigated by the mafia, and also that you'll take revenge on everyone who attacked you last night, and you're only concerned with getting revenge on those folks... but you're not willing to tell the innocent among us exactly what you are? So all the security concerns are already gone, but you're still not going to offer the information which could relieve you of suspicion and allow us to get on with the game, presumably out of either stubbornness (which won't help) or guilt (you've got nothing safe to claim)?

You've giving me no reason to remove my vote.

You're getting somewhere. But what you fail to realize things I said between the lines. And yes, I am pissed at everyone who attacked me. But should those people have a reason for attacking me (Which I'm all ears to hear them too! Why is it that none are being heard? That's right...) then I said I'm willing to look it over. Also, you are partially correct in the last part. I've got nothing to claim because I haven't done anything and so far there isn't any convincing argument that compels to make me reveal publicly.

Why don't you reveal as well?

As I said before, you are painting a bulls-eye on your backs, which will be evident if I die at my reveal. So your decision (And from the other people who are voting for me without any proof of anything) to remove the vote will impact your game.

White_eyes:D

03-18-2010, 22:12

Jolt survives two vig-hits and now he won't role-claim to relive suspicion?:inquisitive: Vote:Jolt

If I do anything at night, other then nothing I will PM you Sasaki:laugh4:

Seon

03-18-2010, 22:17

Jolt, at this point, if you are innocent, it doesn't matter about revealing your identity anymore because we all know that you are not a normal traveler/soldier. Therefore I suggest you reveal your identity.

atheotes

03-18-2010, 22:19

Perhaps because:

Sigurd had second most votes..

why are you making an excuse for him? you know something we dont? :inquisitive:

Ibn-Khaldun

03-18-2010, 22:19

He could be Constable..

Edit: Was replying to Seon's post.