Small Mafia Game Pokemon Nuzlocke FireRed Mafia [Concluded] [Archive] - Page 4

El Barto

05-26-2017, 23:50

Why is everyone voting GH?
Because of the shenanigans to shift the vote onto Raith Kemmler last night, one would say.

Seemingly controversial thought: The sudden vote on Raith to decide the lynch right at the end was a bold move, and the quick formation of a wagon on GH before he has the chance to respond/defend himself at all is not something I like.
But, luckily, there is no majority lynch mechanism in place, my good friend.

If that's foul language you don't want to be friends.
Well, it is just that one prefers ladies to be more… ladylike. And, as we continually stress, this is not the Mafia Universe.

No, I was not contacted or messaged by anyone besides to say I had been healed.
Ah, good. This information is most helpful.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joke
Please, we are meant not to explain the joke (tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DoNotExplainTheJoke).

El Barto

05-26-2017, 23:53

I got poisoned by El Farto over there and someone used an antidote on me last night which was lit.
Oh, please, madam, do not be so hastily insulting.

Remember when I didn't join the safety commission QT until like two days later?

Same thing happened with me being poisoned.
Bad play in previous games is not an excuse for bad play in the current one. If anything, one would hope that you would have learned from the experience.

Manasi

05-26-2017, 23:54

You were the cliffsmaster in mortal kombat.

Yeah I know but I actually read that game.

Manasi

05-26-2017, 23:54

Oh, please, madam, do not be so hastily insulting.

Bad play in previous games is not an excuse for bad play in the current one. If anything, one would hope that you would have learned from the experience.

It was a typo.

The keys are close.

Manasi

05-26-2017, 23:55

I'm not from MU I'm from DailyMafia.

Gender stereotypes ITG.

Zack

05-26-2017, 23:56

I'm not from MU I'm from DailyMafia.

Gender stereotypes ITG.

sup slappy

El Barto

05-26-2017, 23:58

It was a typo.

The keys are close.
I accept your apology. :bow:

I'm not from MU I'm from DailyMafia.
I never suggested such a ghastly possibility as that of your being a native of the Mafia Universe forums. It is just that I thought I'd warn you of the dissimilarity between our cosy enclave here and that wretched scum of hive and villainy.

Manasi

05-26-2017, 23:58

sup slappy

Only for you, baby. :smitten:

Manasi

05-27-2017, 00:01

Zack did you read yet

Hit me with some hot takes

El Barto

05-27-2017, 00:02

Hmmm, the sultry aroma of romance is in the air.

Zack

05-27-2017, 00:03

Zack did you read yet

Hit me with some hot takes

novice v

haven't made much progress on the thread honestly

Manasi

05-27-2017, 00:03

Hmmm, the sultry aroma of romance is in the air.

Zack just farted.

Manasi

05-27-2017, 00:03

novice v

haven't made much progress on the thread honestly

Cool we agree on that one at least.

Lmk when you do ok??

El Barto

05-27-2017, 00:09

Zack just farted.
Oh. Has he been sitting in Queens, eating refried beans?

El Barto

05-27-2017, 00:10

Champ and GeneralHankerchief would be a good pair of leading waggons. Let us not lose sight of Choxorn/Zack, just in case.

Manasi

05-27-2017, 00:12

Champ and GeneralHankerchief would be a good pair of leading waggons. Let us not lose sight of Choxorn/Zack, just in case.

I never lose sight of Zack.

:smitten:

El Barto

05-27-2017, 00:30

Zack appears to be suffering from indigestion tonight.

BSmith

05-27-2017, 00:54

The noise to substance ratio is beginning to get out of whack...

BSmith

05-27-2017, 01:02

vote: Champ. A fair amount of posts but I don't remember a damn one. Seems active but isn't really doing much.

Zack

05-27-2017, 01:12

If there's seriously that many people voting GH just because he mislynched a villager, that seems silly.

Montmorency

05-27-2017, 01:13

If there's seriously that many people voting GH just because he mislynched a villager, that seems silly.

You were cool with how he came at Khaan?

Logic

05-27-2017, 01:14

Zack

05-27-2017, 01:15

You were cool with how he came at Khaan?

I'm still reading, got distracted by some stuff. But that was the only answer I got when I asked why he was a wagon so quickly.

Montmorency

05-27-2017, 01:17

I have to agree that this wagoning is a bad sign. Where were you fairweathers yesterday?

Zack

05-27-2017, 01:34

Caught up finally, but still don't have a whole lot of time. I can say from what I've seen that SeveringViper style bothers me. There is a high post volume and they do seem to be engaging, which hints town to me. At the same time, the arguments being made seem to be more shallow shots than meaningful. Basically makes it a crapshoot, but for day one you can't hope for much more than that in my opinion.

I don't disagree with this and wonder if Viper changes as I keep reading.

Zack

05-27-2017, 01:35

lmao censoring "crapshoot" just makes it look 100x dirtier, because crap isn't the four letter word starting with c that comes to mind

El Barto

05-27-2017, 01:37

If there's seriously that many people voting GH just because he mislynched a villager, that seems silly.
Having a 48-hour phase without a majority lynch, I daresay we have quite the room to manoeuvre. Although I do seem to recall the General announcing a future inability to post which I am not sure he quite did suffer from.

Zack

05-27-2017, 01:40

GH is playing in a Diplomacy tournament because he's a big nerd. <3

Zack

05-27-2017, 02:48

Champ: Seems like a strong player. May be self-resolving. Not lynching him today at any rate.
:inquisitive:

Montmorency

05-27-2017, 03:03

:inquisitive:

Changing your lean on novice?

Csargo

05-27-2017, 03:22

Do tell if anything stands up. I mean, out. Forgive me, it was a slip of the tongue.

Do go on, please.

A most interesting post. To quote the classics: (!)

If I have to explain it, you'll never know.

Csargo

05-27-2017, 03:23

I have to agree that this wagoning is a bad sign. Where were you fairweathers yesterday?

???

Zack

05-27-2017, 03:50

are all the one-off abilities based on pokemon type or something? someeone more familiar with the LORE look into it.

Zack

05-27-2017, 04:02

Tally as of post 723:

Lynch votes
5 votes: Raith Kemmler (Sooh (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748363#post2053748363), Montmorency (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748626#post2053748626), Logic (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748677#post2053748677), Manasi (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748694#post2053748694), GeneralHankerchief (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748720#post2053748720))
4 votes: choxorn (Csargo (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748417#post2053748417), novice (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748435#post2053748435), El Barto (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748703#post2053748703), SeveringViper (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748709#post2053748709))
1 votes: Montmorency (autolycus (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748370#post2053748370))
1 votes: El Barto (BSmith (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748643#post2053748643))

Voting history:

well choxorn (me) is a villager so GH as scum has no reason to draw attention to himself this way

plus the way the wagon opened up today is classic wolves early piling on the day's perceived easy mislynch, not a fan

Zack

05-27-2017, 04:06

Zack

05-27-2017, 04:12

idk

Manasi

05-27-2017, 04:24

wtf I guess I am nothing but amazingly accommodating

I guess

damnit zack

El Barto

05-27-2017, 04:43

are all the one-off abilities based on pokemon type or something? someeone more familiar with the LORE look into it.
We are not told which Pokémon we are supposed to impersonate. Not until we die anyway. Funny, isn't it?

Zack - handsome gentleman
Photographic evidence is required to back such claims.

GeneralHankerchief

05-27-2017, 06:06

Please do not freaking lynch me.

I was at a highway rest stop eating yesterday when I decided to to check the thread. Caught up with literally 2 minutes to go and I went with my gut. Take a closer look at my wagon, the votes on me are garbage.

Going to sleep now, will try to make another appearance tomorrow afternoon/evening US time.

GeneralHankerchief

05-27-2017, 06:11

Like seriously, did you all suddenly forget about everyone else because I saved a role whose alignment we don't even know?

GeneralHankerchief

05-27-2017, 06:24

As an aside if any of you have concerns about the tone of the thread or contents of posts or anything like that don't hesitate to pm me. Won't be able to do anything until Monday but it's helpful to know.

This post should be written in moderator green but phone plus sleep etc.

novice

05-27-2017, 08:39

As per suspicions voiced yesterday:
Vote: Autolycus

Zack sounds villagery but unfortunately had the strongest town vibe as scum that I've ever seen in that other game.

...yeah I thought Champ was a strong player based on his first few posts. He has not lived up to initial expectations.

IF Zack is town then GH's switch makes little sense. So Zack/GH are probably both town or both scum. The former then seems most likely, also given everybody's lacklustre effort in general yesterday. The thing that bugged me the most about GH's switch is that he pulled a chaos move that he knew could catch heat just prior to going away. That smacked of a scum hit and run.

novice

05-27-2017, 08:40

El Barto, did you heal Manasi? What's going on?

novice

05-27-2017, 08:59

IF Zack is town then GH's switch makes little sense. So Zack/GH are probably both town or both scum. The former then seems most likely, also given everybody's lacklustre effort in general yesterday.

That's remarkably crappy logic now that I've had my coffee. Zack as scum and GH as town is certainly a possibility. But given that GH's scumminess is largely dependent on Zack being scum it makes little sense to lynch GH first.

Jabbz

05-27-2017, 09:37

Hey folks, sorry for ghosting last game day, Kids graduations and like stuff kept me beyond busy. I've caught up but want to reread some things before I make any serious observations. In order to protect my ass from being booted Vote: Zack for old times sake.

Montmorency

05-27-2017, 14:54

Logic - lean town

Montmorency - other than the claim lean scum

BSmith - null

GeneralHankerchief - lean town

El Barto - lean town

Champ - garbage posting, unfortunately not out of his town range but think he should be getting more votes than he has if he's town

Jabbz - null

Manasi - lean town .... i guess

SeveringViper - not crazy about his posts, but the counterclaim seems like something a villager is much more likely to do than a wolf

Novice - lean town

Csargo - null

Autolycus - has posted like once? null i guess

Zack - handsome gentleman

Your reads are lame.

Please do not freaking lynch me.

I was at a highway rest stop eating yesterday when I decided to to check the thread. Caught up with literally 2 minutes to go and I went with my gut. Take a closer look at my wagon, the votes on me are garbage.

Going to sleep now, will try to make another appearance tomorrow afternoon/evening US time.

Maybe - but we still need to lynch you sometime.

But given that GH's scumminess is largely dependent on Zack being scum it makes little sense to lynch GH first.

I disagree. :grin:

Zack

05-27-2017, 17:49

vote: monty

No one cares that gh lynched a survivor d1, you shouldn't either. It's weird that you feel so strongly about that.

Montmorency

05-27-2017, 18:00

Play the game.

novice

05-27-2017, 18:03

novice

05-27-2017, 18:16

Speaking of leaving a narrow footprint, here are all of autolycus's posts so far:

Me, I'm a lurker, especially in the early game, but come out with analysis in the late game that gets stronger over time. Basically, I'm a geodude spamming rollout.

vote:Montmorency

Barto, you've played enough with me to know it's the truth. My analyses aren't right, but I do tend to pick up the activity once we enter the mid-game.

Wait, you blocked GH last night, someone died, so now you want him lynched?
And now you want a scanner to claim?

Vote:Montmorency

Mine yesterday was a random vote for a player I'd played with before. Today it's about the idea that GH being blocked last night is evidence of guilt on his part and because both the choxorn and khaan wagon feel like they could have been scum trying to save Monty.

Just trying to get in a "reasonable" vote ASAP and mentioning as few other players as possible.

Montmorency

05-27-2017, 18:16

Yeah I've been wondering if the Monty/GH thing is clumsy distancing. Someone (Logic, I think) mentioned the same thing earlier. Tunneling one player is convenient scum play at any rate. Monty, what is your full suspect list, given that Zack's reads suck?

Here's a player list:

Cuthillius
Seireikhaan
Raith Kemmler
Sooh
---
Logic
Montmorency
GeneralHankerchief
El Barto
Manasi
SeveringViper
Novice
Csargo
choxorn Zack
Autolycus
Champ
BSmith
Jabbz
If all the scum are hiding among the bottom four, I'll be pissed.

At first I thought you were posting leans of your own.

Anyway, my leans are in an atrocious state. My only town leans have been Choxorn/Zack and Viper, but at <75%. The rest are neutral or null, except for GH and now maybe Barto.

It's not that I'm tunneling, but that I don't have alternatives.

Zack

05-27-2017, 18:25

Play the game.

What is that even supposed to mean?

novice

05-27-2017, 18:28

Hey Momty, what's with the bolded statement:

Doesn't inspire much sentiment. And Khaan has another semi-character here:

On the other other hand, this post is like his first Futuramafia posts in that he's complaining about certain tactical decisions for the early game:

But Khaan did always say the best way to play scum roles is to do that which the gut wouldn't believe.

Tally plz GH is making a play for the badge.

This reads like you're holding the door open for a Khaan lynch. Yet in your next post GH is making a play for the badge?

Montmorency

05-27-2017, 18:38

But Khaan did always say the best way to play scum roles is to do that which the gut wouldn't believe.

This is a Khaan quote from Futuramafia, where Khaan was scum. I wanted to see how GH would respond in light of his case against Khaan.

He didn't respond, instead saying this to Cuthilius (WHO WAS AGAINST THE CASE AND DIED N1):

If khaan's town, and I point out his lack of character schtick is somewhat worrisome (believe that's the exact phrase I used), and that's his recent history, is that how he hits back at me?

So I tried to warn everyone about GH going for the Pokemon badge, i.e. killing all townies.

Here are my notes on Cuth, btw (I have no other notes):

Cuth: Liked Sooh, novice; liked by novice; weirded by Manasi/Chox; disliked Khaan case by GH; voted Jabbz for non-town but not scummy; Viper sees Cuth-Mont, Logic too?; voted Chox; scumlean by Chox; voted Khaan

Csargo

05-27-2017, 18:51

Monty is looking worse today imo.

Zack is here, and looks okay so far. Probably slightly less active than I would expect, but I'll give it time.

Unvote:, Vote: Champ I think he deserves some pressure at this stage. Just dropped a vote on Manasi, and disappeared. Is this how Champ plays?

novice

05-27-2017, 18:53

This is a Khaan quote from Futuramafia, where Khaan was scum. I wanted to see how GH would respond in light of his case against Khaan.

He didn't respond, instead saying this to Cuthilius (WHO WAS AGAINST THE CASE AND DIED N1):

So I tried to warn everyone about GH going for the Pokemon badge, i.e. killing all townies.

How did you want town GH to respond then?

novice

05-27-2017, 18:58

Unvote:, Vote: Champ I think he deserves some pressure at this stage

I agree, and it bugs me that there are several players for which this is true. Scum can just direct us onto the one who's town.
What do you think of Autolycus?

Montmorency

05-27-2017, 19:00

How did you want town GH to respond then?

:shrug:

Csargo

05-27-2017, 19:14

I agree, and it bugs me that there are several players for which this is true. Scum can just direct us onto the one who's town.
What do you think of Autolycus?

This is how auto plays, I don't think there's enough to get a good read on him. It's hard to say conclusively with so little information, I have him as null for now.

novice

05-27-2017, 19:29

Tally as of post 828:

Lynch votes
3 votes: GeneralHankerchief (Montmorency (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748853#post2053748853), El Barto (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748859#post2053748859), Logic (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748916#post2053748916))
2 votes: Champ (BSmith (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748912#post2053748912), Csargo (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748996#post2053748996))
1 votes: Autolycus (novice (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748943#post2053748943))
1 votes: Zack (Jabbz (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748950#post2053748950))
1 votes: Montmorency (Zack (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748984#post2053748984))

Voting history:
GeneralHankerchief

GeneralHankerchief

GeneralHankerchief

Champ

GeneralHankerchief

Autolycus

Zack

Montmorency

Champ

novice

05-27-2017, 19:33

:shrug:

I still don't follow your thought process. If GH was going for the badge, that should mean that Khaan seemed town to you, right? But aren't you yourself pointing out a good reason to suspect Khaan here?

On the other other hand, this post is like his first Futuramafia posts in that he's complaining about certain tactical decisions for the early game

novice

05-27-2017, 19:37

This is how auto plays, I don't think there's enough to get a good read on him. It's hard to say conclusively with so little information, I have him as null for now.

Do you agree that he was quick to vote Montmorency for his odd GH reasoning, and that asking Monty for clarification would have been more natural?

SeveringViper

05-27-2017, 19:38

He didn't respond, instead saying this to Cuthilius (WHO WAS AGAINST THE CASE AND DIED N1):

If khaan's town, and I point out his lack of character schtick is somewhat worrisome (believe that's the exact phrase I used), and that's his recent history, is that how he hits back at me?
I read that as his trying to defend the case to Cuth by claiming that Khaan wouldn't have responded to him that way as town.

Here are my notes on Cuth, btw (I have no other notes):
Viper sees Cuth-Mont

Wait, eh? Where do you see this?

novice

05-27-2017, 19:51

Tally as of post 832, including Champ's vote:

Lynch votes
3 votes: GeneralHankerchief (Montmorency (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748853#post2053748853), El Barto (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748859#post2053748859), Logic (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748916#post2053748916))
2 votes: Champ (BSmith (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748912#post2053748912), Csargo (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748996#post2053748996))
1 votes: Autolycus (novice (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748943#post2053748943))
1 votes: Zack (Jabbz (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748950#post2053748950))
1 votes: Montmorency (Zack (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748984#post2053748984))
1 votes: Manasi (Champ)

Voting history:
GeneralHankerchief

GeneralHankerchief

GeneralHankerchief

Champ

GeneralHankerchief

Autolycus

Zack

Montmorency

Champ

Zack

05-27-2017, 19:51

Zack

05-27-2017, 19:53

https://i.imgur.com/IOrWaM9.png

Montmorency

05-27-2017, 19:57

I still don't follow your thought process. If GH was going for the badge, that should mean that Khaan seemed town to you, right? But aren't you yourself pointing out a good reason to suspect Khaan here?

Here's a run-down:

GH soft, Khaan response

khaan hasn't done a character schtick yet to start the game which is mildly concerning.

Got tired of people wanting to lynch me for rp'ing.

GH incites: Khaan shouldn't be talking about character shticks.

khaan's most recent past games on the .Org, in reverse order:

- French Revolution Mafia: town, had a character schtick, not lynched
- Visor's Small Mafia Game: town (subbed in), sort of had a character schtick (speaking nothing in smilies, but only for a few posts), not lynched
- Tokens of My Confection: town, made two posts, not lynched
- Futuramafia: mafia, did not have a character schtick, not lynched (was vigged though IIRC)
- Polandball Mafia: town, made two posts, not lynched
- IKEA Mafia: town, did not have a character schtick, not lynched
- Bird Mafia: town, did not have a character schtick, not lynched

This goes back to March 2016. Does not compute.

I was struck by the argument's lack of a nail: Khaan only needs to have taken this consideration at some - any - point in his Mafia career, which has lasted a decade. What was the special significance of recent history?

I wanted to see if GH was willing to make comparisons between Khaan's form and content this game and those of earlier games where he was scum, in particular Futuramafia. The "do what your gut would not believe" line from Futuramafia does not IMO point to Khaan's guilt in this game, certainly not on its face. I wanted to see how GH would interpret it in service of his case.

What turned me against GH was the apparent willingness to ride on the stakes he had already raised. He didn't want or need a more detailed case, just attention and votes on Khaan. Town GH should have seized on the chance to explore Khaan's past behavior.

Viper: I'm sorry, that was Logic in post 338. I don't know why I thought you first voiced the thought. The second person to bring it up was in fact Choxorn at EOD.

Responding to Cuth: slight alarms going off here. Feels like a forced joke about breaking the spirit or the letter of the rules. If Monty turns wolf, I would not be surprised if Cuth is one as well.

Cuthillius- lean scum, partly for some things Logic pointed out between him and Monty and I'm getting weird vibes from him, too.

Montmorency

05-27-2017, 19:58

zack what's going on

Zack

05-27-2017, 20:00

He did explore khaan's past behavior, and saying otherwise seems really nitpicky.

Csargo

05-27-2017, 20:03

Do you agree that he was quick to vote Montmorency for his odd GH reasoning, and that asking Monty for clarification would have been more natural?

Yeah, he was quick to vote Monty yesterday. I don't know about the second part tbh in regards to auto, considering how he plays. The better question would be do you think it was a valid reason for voting Monty?

novice

05-27-2017, 20:08

Yeah, he was quick to vote Monty yesterday. I don't know about the second part tbh in regards to auto, considering how he plays. The better question would be do you think it was a valid reason for voting Monty?

I'm not sure that's a better question, showing an honest process is important, too. And results matter more than both. Anyway, I think the first part of his reason is invalid, the second part is fair enough.

Today it's about the idea that GH being blocked last night is evidence of guilt on his part and because both the choxorn and khaan wagon feel like they could have been scum trying to save Monty.

novice

05-27-2017, 20:12

Why must you lie
manasi
so i dont get replaced

Who are you calling a liar? Are you saying Manasi lied about being poisoned?

novice

05-27-2017, 20:16

The "do what your gut would not believe" line from Futuramafia does not IMO point to Khaan's guilt in this game, certainly not on its face.

No, but this one does, right?

On the other other hand, this post is like his first Futuramafia posts in that he's complaining about certain tactical decisions for the early game:

Csargo

05-27-2017, 20:16

I'm not sure that's a better question, showing an honest process is important, too. And results matter more than both. Anyway, I think the first part of his reason is invalid, the second part is fair enough.

Well, you may be right about that, but I don't think you're going to be able to get that from auto early game. That's pretty typical of his play from past experience iirc.

novice

05-27-2017, 20:19

He (Champ) can play like this. Easy mislynch when I'm scum.

This is how auto plays, I don't think there's enough to get a good read on him. It's hard to say conclusively with so little information, I have him as null for now.

:wall:

Montmorency

05-27-2017, 20:19

No, but this one does, right?

Not if you're GH, it seems.

Csargo

05-27-2017, 20:25

:wall:

:bow:

novice

05-27-2017, 20:32

Despite GH stating he was going to be gone for a long weekend, and will be unable to defend himself, I think he is the best lynch today, barring further evidence.

Vote: GeneralHankerchief

Or rather: Because of GH stating he was going to be gone for a long weekend, and unable to defend himself, he is the best lynch today, barring further evidence.

To clarify, he deliberately created chaos on a day where he wouldn't be around to defend.

Vote: GeneralHankerchief

Zack

05-27-2017, 20:33

Or rather: Because of GH stating he was going to be gone for a long weekend, and unable to defend himself, he is the best lynch today, barring further evidence.

To clarify, he deliberately created chaos on a day where he wouldn't be around to defend.

Vote: GeneralHankerchief

I don't see how this logic progresses to your vote.

GeneralHankerchief

05-27-2017, 20:34

Yo

Still a townie

Monty intentionally ignoring the numerous posts I made d2 about the khaan thing because he's too committed against me now.

Auto not to be rude but in champs you need to gave the game more effort than you've been giving this one. From a selfish standpoint I'd also appreciate analysis on your part that goes deeper than surface level.

Zack has looked good but he can make these posts as mafia

Novice is probably town

Stop talking exclusively about me, today has been the easiest round ever for mafia so far.

See you all later

GeneralHankerchief

05-27-2017, 20:35

Montmorency

05-27-2017, 20:42

Monty intentionally ignoring the numerous posts I made d2 about the khaan thing because he's too committed against me now.

Novice wanted to know my thinking D1, so I've been speaking about that today. I replied to your D2 posts on D2 saying I wasn't satisfied. :shrug:

I mostly agree with the other stuff you said now.

novice

05-27-2017, 20:56

I don't see how this logic progresses to your vote.

Atm I just want to policy lynch all some of you. I really don't feel like handing out WIFOM points, and switching last minute to lynch Raith when you're not around the next day is just bad for town. Could make sense as scum team sacrificing a GH who is unable to play to save Choxorn, while also gambling that GH will be saved by "scum wouldn't do that" ideas.

...except....unless...reasoning we're not allowed to discuss.

Bah. I'm just steaming. Or trapping.

novice

05-27-2017, 20:57

Novice take your vote off me.

And put it where?

El Barto

05-27-2017, 22:08

El Barto, did you heal Manasi? What's going on?
Once again, I must repeat my earlier statements that I have no abilities remaining, my good sir.

Hey folks, sorry for ghosting last game day, Kids graduations and like stuff kept me beyond busy. I've caught up but want to reread some things before I make any serious observations. In order to protect my ass from being booted Vote: Zack for old times sake.
This is highly irregular.

vote: Jabbz

I agree, and it bugs me that there are several players for which this is true. Scum can just direct us onto the one who's town.
What do you think of Autolycus?
Read his posts back from Day One, in which he professed that he shouldn't be lynched for a few days because he would eventually prove himself to be a quite competent late-game player, and my reaction to that.

Atm I just want to policy lynch all some of you. I really don't feel like handing out WIFOM points, and switching last minute to lynch Raith when you're not around the next day is just bad for town. Could make sense as scum team sacrificing a GH who is unable to play to save Choxorn, while also gambling that GH will be saved by "scum wouldn't do that" ideas.

...except....unless...reasoning we're not allowed to discuss.

Bah. I'm just steaming. Or trapping.
I must inquire of you, what this reasoning would be, and whom would you think it would be good policy to lynch. I'd like a clear, succint explanation of the former and a list of the latter, please.

And put it where?
I am afraid that GeneralHankerchief might perform a Red Foreman tribute-cum-impersonation at this point.

novice

05-27-2017, 22:29

The reasoning that we're not allowed to discuss? I can't discuss that.

Policy lynch candidates:
Champ
Autolycus
Jabbz
BSmith

novice

05-27-2017, 22:34

Me, I'm a lurker, especially in the early game, but come out with analysis in the late game that gets stronger over time. Basically, I'm a geodude spamming rollout.

vote:Montmorency

What a convenient claim to the effect that ‘don't lynch me for a few days’.

Read his posts back from Day One, in which he professed that he shouldn't be lynched for a few days because he would eventually prove himself to be a quite competent late-game player, and my reaction to that.

Yes, and?

Montmorency

05-27-2017, 22:39

The reasoning that we're not allowed to discuss? I can't discuss that.

Policy lynch candidates:
Champ
Autolycus
Jabbz
BSmith

What couldn't we discuss? I must be missing something.

Of your candidates, Jabbz is most lynchable.

novice

05-27-2017, 22:47

What couldn't we discuss? I must be missing something.

Of your candidates, Jabbz is most lynchable.

I just ISOed him actually and I would prefer the other three. Also he doesn't really qualify as a pure policy lynch.

Is it just on MU that discussing substitutions is a no-no?

El Barto

05-27-2017, 22:50

Policy lynch candidates:
Champ
Autolycus
Jabbz
BSmith
Because…?

Yes, and?
Well, what is your opinion? I myself am not convinced of it.

And where is Autolycus anyway?

I just ISOed him actually and I would prefer the other three. Also he doesn't really qualify as a pure policy lynch.
Would you mind providing explanations for both of those sentences, sir?

Is it just on MU that discussing substitutions is a no-no?
Here we might be laxer, but you should tread carefully. Few people have ever asked for a replacement in order to game the system and it is considered to be a quite poor show if you actually do it or baselessly accuse another player of that behaviour.

novice

05-27-2017, 23:03

Not Jabbz because from ISOing I got the impression that he did his best to find decent lynches given his time constraints. Not qualifying for policy lynch because he's left a trail. The other three qualify because they haven't posted enough or left enough interactions that we will have any chance of reading anything from their first few days. If that continues we will be left guessing blindly between them on LyLo.

I do agree that Auto's claim is convenient for him, and by the time his good endgame analysis is due, it will be too late to lynch him if it doesn't materialize.

El Barto

05-28-2017, 00:01

I shall perform an ‘ISO’ on Jabbz on the morrow, but his poor show today merits keeping my vote on him for now. Duty calls.

autolycus

05-28-2017, 02:33

Yo
Auto not to be rude but in champs you need to gave the game more effort than you've been giving this one. From a selfish standpoint I'd also appreciate analysis on your part that goes deeper than surface level.

No offense taken :) In Champs I'll be mandated to put more activity in, by an order of magnitude, and I'm well aware that that's just the floor over there. Accordingly, I'm trying to get ahead on my RL commitments before Champs eats me alive. Also, if I put in that level of effort here, I'd get lynched instantly, because that's highly irregular for me, given my history :P. Alright, time to do another pass through the thread and see what I find.

GeneralHankerchief

05-28-2017, 03:13

Monty you are tunneling the crap out of me and it needs to stop.

I go after someone who DID NOT FLIP TOWN:
Oh man it's scum trying to swing a lynch

I make light of this on d2:
Lol nope not satisfied, not going into specifics

The fact that you're going after me based on a last second vote yesterday l, presumably I guess to save chox/zack, even though they haven't flipped yet and multiple people call you out on this:
Well GH still needs to die anyway

---

The fact that there has been NO OTHER DISCUSSION AT ALL this round and NO OTHER TARGETS should tell you all something.

This is an absolutely horrible mislynch where people are taking advantage of my absence.

Get. Off. Me.

GeneralHankerchief

05-28-2017, 03:17

https://i.imgur.com/IOrWaM9.png

Jabbz thanked this post so he's clearly reading the thread but hasn't posted anything in 18 hours.

He's fine with me going down and wants an easy day.

He doesn't want to solve.

Vote: Jabbz

God formatting sucks on mobile.

Montmorency

05-28-2017, 03:34

The fact that you're going after me based on a last second vote yesterday l, presumably I guess to save chox/zack, even though they haven't flipped yet and multiple people call you out on this:

Whoa, none of that happened. I haven't gone after you for that - others have. Only Zack could be said to have called me out today for pushing you.

I'm digging for the paydirt. If someone looks more evil than you, I will vote them.

What is that even supposed to mean?

I missed this. It means you must solve.

autolycus

05-28-2017, 03:50

Alright, one sentence hot-takes:

autolycus-Placing myself here for completeness

Nulls:
Zack-Just entered the game. I got a confusing vibe off choxorn, which I'm going to put down to RL.
Bsmith-I appreciate his signal to noise comment, and agree with his sentiments on Champ, but that could just be lurker bashing.
Manasi-The poisoned one. That tends town, but his tone feels somewhat off to me, so I'll keep him neutral for now.
Novice: Our biggest poster, but with opinions to match. I haven't played with him before so I don't know what to make of this earnestness.
csargo: In line with previous performances.

Lean Town:
Logic- Consistent activity, taking positions, feels town to me.
GH- More emotional than usual, that cuts toward town GH to me, but he's probably the least town-feeling of my town leans at the moment.
El Barto- If I followed that correctly, he's claimed poisoning Manasi. He has the guts to claim as scum, but the badgering Manasi about timing feels town to me.
SeveringViper:Very aggressive and abrasive tone, combined with some decent analysis, I don't see that coming from scum.

Lean Scum:
Montmorency- This is less about his behavior as the fact that for two days running, he's been a major lynch contender and then the lynch doesn't land on him (D1) or drifts away from him for unclear reasons (D2).

Lurker-null:
Jabbz- Similar post profile to Jabbz, but the role pm analysis attempt feels like trying, plus he's said he's busy, so I'll leave him null for now.

Lurker-scum:
Champ- >25 posts, and he's said less of meaning than me.

Hmm, no one's really standing out but Champ, and he has enough votes for now. I know I'm at risk of tunnel vision on Monty if I'm not careful, so I'll vote: Bsmith for now. Be back on tomorrow morning.

Csargo

05-28-2017, 04:15

What?

Jabbz

05-28-2017, 04:38

Doing my best but I overestimated the amount of time I had free, especially with this being memorial day weekend. Spent the morning with a VFW group putting flags on vet graves. Good times I know.

All I can say at the moment is that I find the voting on GHC to be odd, people make mistakes and day 1 is almost guaranteed for those. His defense does ruffle my senses a bit, he seems to be trying far to hard to be dismissive rather than actually defend himself, but then again his current travel situation could definitely justify that. I do however find his making my absence somehow a personal focus on him, rather that me just being busy. That really makes me feel like he's going after low hanging fruit.

I still stand by thinking that Logic is town for my aforementioned reasons.

I'm liking Severing more now than I did before, mostly because I thought he was Zack in hiding, now that is clearly not the case I find my reads to be substantially different likely because they were tinged by how they sounded compared to what I expected.

Zack is null, and I didn't view choxorn's case as overly substantial. My vote on Zack was purely a joke, anyone who knows about our past interaction wouldn't view that oddly I don't think.

Most of the rest I quite frankly haven't put enough time into. I would honestly be down to lynch GHC, but I feel that it is too possible the only reason he is coming across wrong is because he simply doesn't have the time to devote, so I'd be more inclined to want to see him be on the list tomorrow when he can defend himself.

I feel somewhat hypocritical supporting lynching a lurker, but in my defense I am contributing more than a few of the others, and I think that's the direction I'd head, supporting a group consensus on the matter as long as said consensus isn't myself.

Jabbz

05-28-2017, 04:41

Oh and in case it was missed earlier, I am town and currently have no abilities, nor did I start with any or take any actions at night to this point, so losing me with my time constraints isn't exactly a huge loss to town.

novice

05-28-2017, 05:42

Vote: Champ

novice

05-28-2017, 05:44

Tally as of post 870:

Lynch votes
3 votes: Champ (BSmith (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748912#post2053748912), Csargo (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748996#post2053748996), novice (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053749066#post2053749066))
2 votes: GeneralHankerchief (Montmorency (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748853#post2053748853), Logic (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748916#post2053748916))
2 votes: Jabbz (El Barto (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053749036#post2053749036), GeneralHankerchief (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053749058#post2053749058))
1 votes: Zack (Jabbz (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748950#post2053748950))
1 votes: Montmorency (Zack (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748984#post2053748984))
1 votes: Bsmith (autolycus (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053749060#post2053749060))

Voting history:
GeneralHankerchief

GeneralHankerchief

GeneralHankerchief

Champ

GeneralHankerchief

Autolycus

Zack

Montmorency

Champ

GeneralHankerchief

Jabbz

Jabbz

Bsmith

Champ

Zack

05-28-2017, 05:52

All I can say at the moment is that I find the voting on GHC to be odd, people make mistakes and day 1 is almost guaranteed for those.
Can you talk specifically about Montmorency?

Zack

05-28-2017, 05:58

Zack

05-28-2017, 06:05

Viper has been pretty subdued today.

Manasi posted a lot at start of day, but didn't really say much of substance and disappeared.

The willingness from so many to lynch GH perplexes me -- he is easily the person I feel most confident calling town, other than myself.

People keep saying Barto is capable of doing such things (claiming the poison when he had no reason to do so -- a 1x poisoner just died and claiming it just antagonizes someone without benefit), but I don't know why. What I've seen isn't anything like scum games of his I can recall. Granted most of the thread I didn't read in too much depth.

Csargo seems to be coasting.

Csargo

05-28-2017, 06:26

Hi Zack. I wasn't convinced by your MSPaint drawing, though you clearly are going places, such a talented man.

If coasting equals netflix, then yeah I've been coasting. Since I'm here ask away, I'm all ears, or eyes rather.

Zack

05-28-2017, 06:31

i'd prefer you do stuff on your own without me having to prompt you

Csargo

05-28-2017, 06:55

Odd.

novice

05-28-2017, 15:37

El Barto: Why did you poison Manasi?

Montmorency

05-28-2017, 15:37

I like Jabbz' recent posts better.

novice

05-28-2017, 15:46

I forgot this existed

Why must you lie
manasi
so i dont get replaced

Champ is worried about being replaced, but not about being lynched.

I'm having a hard time finding something constructive to do.

Monty, you can have my vote for now.
Vote: Montmorency
Why did you claim on D2, what was the rush?

Montmorency

05-28-2017, 15:52

To demonstrate good will.

Manasi

05-28-2017, 17:22

Hi.

I left to do family things yesterday and then essentially went straight to bed.

I'm gonna reread from SOD and hit y'all with some TAKES.

I hope.

I might also just get distracted again.

Manasi

05-28-2017, 17:51

Is there a max # of multiquotes/post?

Welp.

Gonna be a few posts from me then weee.

Manasi

05-28-2017, 17:53

Actually, this is troubling. GH deploys his "chaos" card in most games, but in his last two scum games here (Bird Mafia and IKEA Mafia) he doesn't seem to have. So it could be slightly town-indicative.

...

Let's lynch him and find out.

This is bad logic and you should not be proud of yourself for it.

Seemingly controversial thought: The sudden vote on Raith to decide the lynch right at the end was a bold move, and the quick formation of a wagon on GH before he has the chance to respond/defend himself at all is not something I like.

Good progress I suppose, having a lynch is infinitely more beneficial than randing one though. The fact that GH was not ITT due to other shit and then popped in close to EOD isn't really alignment indicative especially given that he has already claimed not being in the thread. ONly makes sense that he'd check in at important times.

Because of the shenanigans to shift the vote onto Raith Kemmler last night, one would say.

But, luckily, there is no majority lynch mechanism in place, my good friend.

"Shift vote onto"

He was leading for the most part anyway I think. Could be wrong, but it looks like you're just making up a reason to push on to GH right now lul.

Champ and GeneralHankerchief would be a good pair of leading waggons. Let us not lose sight of Choxorn/Zack, just in case.

Not a fan of this post. Keeping options open on at least two people who are villagers IMO.

GH and Champ are my top suspects, in that order.

Despite GH stating he was going to be gone for a long weekend, and will be unable to defend himself, I think he is the best lynch today, barring further evidence.

lol WHAT

Oh golly gosh.

So from this I think that it definitely sets Barto as a higher scum suspect IMO.

Weirdly keeping a lot of lynch avenues open and in addition to that he obviously poisoned me (a villager) so meh. I wasn't scummy at all day 1 so it could have been an easy way to get rid of a villager.

Either way, in this progression of posts I really don't think there's anything that saves him or makes him seem like a villager at all.

With the last post, Logic could easily be a partner.

Kinda put off by how the lynch is seeming to revolve around GH/Champ.

Blech.

MORE POSTS INC.

Manasi

05-28-2017, 18:06

That's remarkably crappy logic now that I've had my coffee. Zack as scum and GH as town is certainly a possibility. But given that GH's scumminess is largely dependent on Zack being scum it makes little sense to lynch GH first.

Uhhh. Why does it depend on Zack? GH and Chox hardly associated with each other and GH hasn't been around much since zack has started playing. Can you help me understand this?

Play the game.

:shrug:

This is a funny progression.

Zack came ITT and immediately (well..) jumped into the game and started rereading. He's arguably already done more solving being in the game for like 14 hours than most people have in three days (myself included). I think telling him to play the game and then proceeding to have very terse and seemingly fluff/useless responses isn't a good look. Something that's making me lean scum on you especially because it comes off as though you expect us to read you as a villager because you're playing well but in reality ?????

Or rather: Because of GH stating he was going to be gone for a long weekend, and unable to defend himself, he is the best lynch today, barring further evidence.

To clarify, he deliberately created chaos on a day where he wouldn't be around to defend.

Vote: GeneralHankerchief

STOP ANALYZING THINGS LIKE THIS. Omg. This is bad. GH is a great player (from what I've seen) and this is in no way reality. Voting and ghosting isn't a strategy and you shouldn't jump to this being the proper conclusion.

AHHH.

Okay.

In addition to my last post where I was prioritizing Barto as scum, I don't think Monty has much going for him either. I suppose it'll switch around a bit as the day continues but I've only read the two-ish pages from today. I'll try to reread the majority of the game and figure some more out to either strengthen some scum reads or make me re-evaluate, but right now I'm comfortable in Barto/Mont scum.

I do still think novice/Zack/SV/GH/Csargo are villagers so should be fine running with that for a while.
Champ IS an easy mislynch but it would be great if he started posting more.

Pretty easy to determine his alignment if he actually posts lel.

Manasi

05-28-2017, 18:07

People plz get ITT so we can chat it's boring talking to a wall

sos

Champ

05-28-2017, 18:07

GH and Champ are my top suspects, in that order.

Despite GH stating he was going to be gone for a long weekend, and will be unable to defend himself, I think he is the best lynch today, barring further evidence.

Vote: GeneralHankerchief

this is terrible
Unvote: Manasi
Vote:Logic

Champ

05-28-2017, 18:08

wait novice said that
Unvote: Logic
Vote: Novice

Champ

05-28-2017, 18:09

Brain are you ok?
Unvote: Novice
Vote: Logic

Manasi

05-28-2017, 18:11

champ have you read anything

stop voting and start posting plz

Champ

05-28-2017, 18:12

logic is lock wolf

Manasi

05-28-2017, 18:15

logic is lock wolf

why

more than that one post please

Champ

05-28-2017, 18:17

I meant to reply to you: I may not completely get your actions, but you are far from a lock scum to me. There are others that are far more likely to be scum than you are.

how many wolf reads do you have?

Champ

05-28-2017, 18:19

Champ

05-28-2017, 18:21

ok he has mentioned me

Champ

05-28-2017, 18:22

where the fuck did that post go

Zack

05-28-2017, 18:25

sup chump

Manasi

05-28-2017, 18:28

PEOPLE R HERE

hi

Zack

05-28-2017, 18:32

good posts manasi

idk why you keep saying I reread the thread when it was my first time reading it

Montmorency

05-28-2017, 18:37

This is bad logic and you should not be proud of yourself for it.

Which part? The chaos-read or the push for lynch regardless? I like both.

Zack came ITT and immediately (well..) jumped into the game and started rereading. He's arguably already done more solving being in the game for like 14 hours than most people have in three days (myself included). I think telling him to play the game and then proceeding to have very terse and seemingly fluff/useless responses isn't a good look. Something that's making me lean scum on you especially because it comes off as though you expect us to read you as a villager because you're playing well but in reality ?????

Zack made two reads posts, the first of which I disagreed with, and asked a few questions of various people. He's not reached his peak yet.

I've said plenty of GH, and commented on Barto. Since I don't know what to do with the rest of you, I'm fine staying the course.

Chill out.

Manasi

05-28-2017, 18:40

good posts manasi

idk why you keep saying I reread the thread when it was my first time reading it

Ye.

Whatever.

English etc.

Manasi

05-28-2017, 18:41

Why are you telling me to chill out?

My wrists look like frozen Poland Spring water.

Manasi

05-28-2017, 18:42

I guess technically English wasn't my first language so I could use that as an excuse.

Manasi

05-28-2017, 18:48

https://i.imgur.com/QGyfDiO.png

Zack

05-28-2017, 18:52

The chaos thing is definitely something GH does as town. Plus I'm not a wolf, so why even put himself out there like that when it's meaningless? It makes no sense how some people are calling for GH's head based on voting Raith while not suspecting me. You not liking the way he did it does not make it wolfy. Either he was saving a wolf or it's not alignment-indicative.

And I mean, Monty's attack on GH for pushing khaan d1 is ludicrous. One of the points of his accusation is that GH didn't look into khaan's past games, when he literally did that and listed out how khaan acted in past games... Not to mention lynching someone who's not a wolf d1 isn't something that's damning in the first place.

Manasi

05-28-2017, 18:55

Montmorency

05-28-2017, 18:55

And I mean, Monty's attack on GH for pushing khaan d1 is ludicrous. One of the points of his accusation is that GH didn't look into khaan's past games, when he literally did that and listed out how khaan acted in past games... Not to mention lynching someone who's not a wolf d1 isn't something that's damning in the first place.

That's not what I said. I said he was doing it superficially because when I threw more content for him to latch onto and try to spin into a case, he ignored it because mafia don't need to make a big case on D1. It was enough that he focused attention on someone not teamed with him, and influenced the lynch.

Zack

05-28-2017, 18:56

I also kinda dislike how every case brought against him he just completely dismisses.

Meh.

so what?

i don't really expect anyone to recognize merit in cases made against them, and in this instance they are lacking substance. I've dismissed them too.

Manasi

05-28-2017, 19:03

so what?

i don't really expect anyone to recognize merit in cases made against them, and in this instance they are lacking substance. I've dismissed them too.

Fzzt.

I do.

Sometimes.

OKAY.

Zack

05-28-2017, 19:03

That's not what I said. I said he was doing it superficially because when I threw more content for him to latch onto and try to spin into a case, he ignored it because mafia don't need to make a big case on D1. It was enough that he focused attention on someone not teamed with him, and influenced the lynch.
Give me a post number to look at.

Montmorency

05-28-2017, 19:28

Give me a post number to look at.

Post 836. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692-Pokemon-Nuzlocke-FireRed-Mafia-In-Play&p=2053749011&viewfull=1#post2053749011)

Montmorency

05-28-2017, 19:28

We might as well start to think about teams at this point.

Champ and Jabbz probably not teamed with Zack/Choxorn if one of them is scum.

At EOD1, Champ voted Manasi (off-wagon) because he thought Khaan wasn't a good-enough wagon. Doesn't feel like distancing when it's almost a tacit endorsement of a Choxorn lynch at a time when that was a real possibility. Also, Manasi wasn't an alt-wagon for Champ-Chox because Choxorn was first to vote Manasi during EOD and then switched to voting Champ, after which Champ voted Manasi.

i feel like she doesnt want to be here and isnt enjoying herself
she loves being town and her lack of engagement is nagl
i dont like khaan i just dont think hes the best lynch

At EOD2, Champ did nothing to influence the lynch away from Choxorn.

If Zack/Choxorn is scum, Jabbz could be partner based on D1 posting.

Start of connection D1 was asking the thread for summary of the case against Choxorn,

My time is limited atm, could someone point a few post numbers to me that are making the major arguments against Chox? Thanks.

Offers neutral evaluation of Choxorn posts which Viper uses as a basis to vote him.

Almost looks like he's shooting to vote for someone, but wants to be able to point to someone else later and be like "they told me to." Not exactly a subtle move tho.

Posted hedging vote on Choxorn just before time at EOD.

The Choxorn vote doesn't look good, but also doesn't look bad I suppose. I feel it more than the Khaan vote at least. Not feeling scum from Severing, so that seems the best place to put it. Sorry for the hedging, I'll understand if people call me on it later.

Vote Choxorn

This is unlikely to be distancing because in the last 5 minutes of D1 the score was

4 votes: khaan (GeneralHankerchief, novice, Csargo, Cuthillius)
2 votes: Choxorn (SeveringViper, Manasi)
2 votes: Montmorency (autolycus, Logic)
with the last sequence of votes being Khaan > Choxorn, Choxorn > Khaan, Jabbz > Choxorn, Viper unvote Choxorn > Monty, Kemmler > Khaan.

During D2, he justified himself to GH as seeing more problems with Choxorn than Khaan, and then didn't show up for EOD2 to vote, a time when Choxorn was in his greatest peril ever from the lynch (tied vote).

@GHC Basically I didn't want to vote on a guy I was not getting any scum vibes from, and I saw fewer problems with Khaan than Chox. Admittedly that might be because the Khaan case was developing over a larger period and I'm reading bits and pieces. I understand I'll be held accountable for it tho, just don't expect a better explanation, as my justification is weak. No vote or vote on anyone else would likely also get me questioned tomorrow anyway. GL all.

novice

05-28-2017, 19:44

Uhhh. Why does it depend on Zack? GH and Chox hardly associated with each other and GH hasn't been around much since zack has started playing. Can you help me understand this?

The main issue with GH, for me at least, is his last minute switch from Choxorn to Raith. And that is only scummy if Choxorn/Zack is scum.

Jabbz

05-28-2017, 19:48

logic is lock wolf

I have logic as basically confirmed town, so I would love to hear what you have to say that would confirm him as wolf instead. That way I can decide whether you are just using poor arguments, or are being shifty AF.

novice

05-28-2017, 19:50

Why do you have him as lock town?

Zack

05-28-2017, 19:57

Post 836. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692-Pokemon-Nuzlocke-FireRed-Mafia-In-Play&p=2053749011&viewfull=1#post2053749011)

No. Give me the post numbers of where you "threw more content for him to latch onto and try to spin into a case, he ignored it because mafia don't need to make a big case on D1"

Zack

05-28-2017, 19:59

I don't want to read your summary, I want to read the original content and form my own opinion.

Zack

05-28-2017, 20:00

I have logic as basically confirmed town, so I would love to hear what you have to say that would confirm him as wolf instead. That way I can decide whether you are just using poor arguments, or are being shifty AF.

It's just how Champ talks.

Jabbz

05-28-2017, 20:00

I covered that on day 1 IIRC. There is something he said about his role that meshes well with my understanding of my role, which is the same as what he claims. While it is possible that he is coming at that understanding from a different perspective, IE Scum getting access to pm text for town, I find it unlikely scum would come to the same conclusion due to their context being different. I would comment deeper on it but I risk hedging too close to talking about PM's at that point, so I cant.

Jabbz

05-28-2017, 20:01

It's just how Champ talks.

Gotcha. I owe you a read on Monty, and I'll try to do that once the drugs kick in a bit. Jacked my ankle this AM and it hurts like the proverbial female dog.

novice

05-28-2017, 20:02

novice

05-28-2017, 20:02

Tally as of post 921:

Lynch votes
2 votes: GeneralHankerchief (Montmorency (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748853#post2053748853), Logic (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748916#post2053748916))
2 votes: Champ (BSmith (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748912#post2053748912), Csargo (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748996#post2053748996))
2 votes: Montmorency (Zack (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748984#post2053748984), novice (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053749106#post2053749106))
2 votes: Jabbz (El Barto (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053749036#post2053749036), GeneralHankerchief (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053749058#post2053749058))
1 votes: Zack (Jabbz (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748950#post2053748950))
1 votes: Bsmith (autolycus (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053749060#post2053749060))
1 votes: Logic (Champ (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053749131#post2053749131))

Voting history:
GeneralHankerchief

GeneralHankerchief

GeneralHankerchief

Champ

GeneralHankerchief

Autolycus

Zack

Montmorency

Champ

GeneralHankerchief

Jabbz

Jabbz

Bsmith

Champ

Montmorency

Logic

Novice

Logic

Zack

05-28-2017, 20:04

I don't want to read your summary, I want to read the original content and form my own opinion.

Even from your summary, it seems like an absurd nitpick to still be harping so strongly about days later.

novice

05-28-2017, 20:11

I meant to reply to you (El Barto): I may not completely get your actions, but you are far from a lock scum to me. There are others that are far more likely to be scum than you are.
how many wolf reads do you have?

I think that's a pertinent question by Champ, who are these other far more likely scummies? Were you referring to GH and Champ, since the post below is your day three followup?

GH and Champ are my top suspects, in that order.

Despite GH stating he was going to be gone for a long weekend, and will be unable to defend himself, I think he is the best lynch today, barring further evidence.

Vote: GeneralHankerchief

novice

05-28-2017, 20:12

Now that Manasi didn't flip but continues to make towny noises, is there any reason not to lynch El Barto?

Askthepizzaguy

05-28-2017, 20:13

GH: Monty, Logic
Champ: Bsmith, Csargo
Monty: Zack, Novice
Jabbz: Barto, GH
Bsmith: Auto
Logic: Champ
Zack: Jabbz

Manasi

05-28-2017, 20:14

Gotcha. I owe you a read on Monty, and I'll try to do that once the drugs kick in a bit. Jacked my ankle this AM and it hurts like the proverbial female dog.

Hey nice I did the same to my wrist!

Montmorency

05-28-2017, 20:14

Even from your summary, it seems like an absurd nitpick to still be harping so strongly about days later.

GH's main post relevant here, #278, is quoted in the summary. My response to it came shortly after, Post 281 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692-Pokemon-Nuzlocke-FireRed-Mafia-In-Play&p=2053748095&viewfull=1#post2053748095).

Manasi

05-28-2017, 20:14

Zack pls kiss my wrist.

Zack

05-28-2017, 20:15

Now that Manasi didn't flip but continues to make towny noises, is there any reason not to lynch El Barto?

why can't they both be villagers?

Manasi

05-28-2017, 20:16

why can't they both be villagers?

I need to reread why he poisoned me.

I'm really not vibing with his tone though. Not a fan/10.

Zack

05-28-2017, 20:19

GH's main post relevant here, #278, is quoted in the summary. My response to it came shortly after, Post 281 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692-Pokemon-Nuzlocke-FireRed-Mafia-In-Play&p=2053748095&viewfull=1#post2053748095).

khaan had already self-admitted he wasn't doing a character thing. That post was just referencing how long he's been on the org.

What response were you even looking for GH to have to that?

I just don't get why it's something you're so hyper-focused on.

Zack

05-28-2017, 20:23

I threw more content for him to latch onto and try to spin into a case, he ignored it because mafia don't need to make a big case on D1.
like I just don't really buy this train of thought

on d1, GH didn't respond to that post, so several days later you're still really concerned with how it makes him a wolf? If he's a wolf just trying to bury khaan why not acknowledge any bone you might have thrown him and add it to his case?

And as a wolf he is perfectly willing to expend a lot of effort digging into past games, in any case.

Montmorency

05-28-2017, 20:24

khaan had already self-admitted he wasn't doing a character thing. That post was just referencing how long he's been on the org.

What response were you even looking for GH to have to that?

I just don't get why it's something you're so hyper-focused on.

Recall that GH's specific - and sufficient - case against Khaan was that Khaan said he doesn't like getting lynched for RPing so he doesn't do it. GH found this suspicious because Khaan hadn't been lynched for RPing in the past year, as though that meant something.

Why wouldn't GH want to have a more comprehensive case, comparing Khaan to other games? I gave him Khaan content to run with to see how he would react, and a town GH should at least have made something out of it.

If I'm making a big deal, it's because I keep getting asked about it. :shrug:

Montmorency

05-28-2017, 20:27

like I just don't really buy this train of thought

on d1, GH didn't respond to that post, so several days later you're still really concerned with how it makes him a wolf? If he's a wolf just trying to bury khaan why not acknowledge any bone you might have thrown him and add it to his case?

And as a wolf he is perfectly willing to expend a lot of effort digging into past games, in any case.

Scum doesn't need to make an effort D1, indeed it's better for them not to make a really big commitment.

It's not just his lack of a response to my post, but his lack of any expansion to the case - he rested on the line he came out with, only moving to clarify or emphasize it to people questioning him.

Zack

05-28-2017, 20:27

If I'm making a big deal, it's because I keep getting asked about it. :shrug:
Well you're voting for him because of it and you've been tunneling him.

Zack

05-28-2017, 20:29

Scum doesn't need to make an effort D1, indeed it's better for them not to make a really big commitment.

It's not just his lack of a response to my post, but his lack of any expansion to the case - he rested on the line he came out with, only moving to clarify or emphasize it to people questioning him.
I reject your assertion (in the first line) out of hand. If you think that, lynch autolycus.

For all your talk about GH being evil for not investigating khaan's past games to your liking, have you looked into GH's past games?

Montmorency

05-28-2017, 20:29

Well you're voting for him because of it and you've been tunneling him.

My only alternative is Barto currently. He has no votes, and you town-read him.

Montmorency

05-28-2017, 20:31

I reject your assertion (in the first line) out of hand. If you think that, lynch autolycus.

For all your talk about GH being evil for not investigating khaan's past games to your liking, have you looked into GH's past games?

1. It doesn't logically follow that way. Scum not wanting to be the center of attention or have to work to drive events (on D1 after all) doesn't mean, lynch the least active player.

2. If he gives me something, I will.

Zack

05-28-2017, 20:35

1. It doesn't logically follow that way. Scum not wanting to be the center of attention or have to work to drive events (on D1 after all) doesn't mean, lynch the least active player.

2. If he gives me something, I will.

1. but gh directly lead the d1 lynch... and brought a lot of attention to himself with the raith vote...

2. what?

Your reasoning is not internally consistent. GH is a wolf because scum don't want to be the center of attention or drive events, when he's done both of those. GH is a wolf for not sufficiently looking into khaan's past games, when you haven't bothered to look at GH's past games.

Zack

05-28-2017, 20:36

My only alternative is Barto currently. He has no votes, and you town-read him.

Why is he your only alternative?

What about: csargo, champ, autolycus, bsmith, jabbz?

Why does my read matter? You said you don't like my reads and you're voting GH, who I town-read, anyways.

El Barto

05-28-2017, 20:37

Would Monsieur de Montmorency be so kind as to inform me of his reasons to equate my standing to that of a common foot soldier who cannot even spell his name correctly?

(…) Hmm, no one's really standing out but Champ, and he has enough votes for now. I know I'm at risk of tunnel vision on Monty if I'm not careful, so I'll vote: Bsmith for now. Be back on tomorrow morning.
I am sorry, my good chum, but I do think that there is an inconsistence between your classifying BSmith as ‘null’ and voting him for the lynch whilst all the

The Fish Finger of Suspicion is pointed at you, Autolycus.

Doing my best but I overestimated the amount of time I had free, especially with this being memorial day weekend. Spent the morning with a VFW group putting flags on vet graves. Good times I know.

All I can say at the moment is that I find the voting on GHC to be odd, people make mistakes and day 1 is almost guaranteed for those. His defense does ruffle my senses a bit, he seems to be trying far to hard to be dismissive rather than actually defend himself, but then again his current travel situation could definitely justify that. I do however find his making my absence somehow a personal focus on him, rather that me just being busy. That really makes me feel like he's going after low hanging fruit.

I still stand by thinking that Logic is town for my aforementioned reasons.

I'm liking Severing more now than I did before, mostly because I thought he was Zack in hiding, now that is clearly not the case I find my reads to be substantially different likely because they were tinged by how they sounded compared to what I expected.

Zack is null, and I didn't view choxorn's case as overly substantial. My vote on Zack was purely a joke, anyone who knows about our past interaction wouldn't view that oddly I don't think.

Most of the rest I quite frankly haven't put enough time into. I would honestly be down to lynch GHC, but I feel that it is too possible the only reason he is coming across wrong is because he simply doesn't have the time to devote, so I'd be more inclined to want to see him be on the list tomorrow when he can defend himself.

I feel somewhat hypocritical supporting lynching a lurker, but in my defense I am contributing more than a few of the others, and I think that's the direction I'd head, supporting a group consensus on the matter as long as said consensus isn't myself.
You are doing nothing to allay my suspicions of you, Jabbz.

El Barto: Why did you poison Manasi?
It was a test of character. There was a significant possibility that Manasi would be saved, as stated by our good friend the Game Master. I do hope that somebody would have employed a tracking or watching ability to clear one more Innocent, but it is not unlikely that they did not.

I guess technically English wasn't my first language so I could use that as an excuse.
Do tell us more. It might not be relate to the game at hand but I am always interested in tongues.

Now that Manasi didn't flip but continues to make towny noises, is there any reason not to lynch El Barto?why can't they both be villagers?That is a distinct possibility. Notice that I am not voting for Manasi after her reaction to the lynching.

Zack

05-28-2017, 20:38

GeneralHankerchief

you've been active in the forum all day. are you just idling on your phone or what?

El Barto

05-28-2017, 20:38

Why is he your only alternative?

What about: csargo, champ, autolycus, bsmith, jabbz?

Why does my read matter? You said you don't like my reads and you're voting GH, who I town-read, anyways.
It might just be that M. Montmorency is chasing, so to speak, his own tail at this moment.

He could also be suffering from Perfect Information Syndrome, but that seems unlikely as of right now.

Montmorency

05-28-2017, 20:39

1. but gh directly lead the d1 lynch... and brought a lot of attention to himself with the raith vote...

2. what?

Your reasoning is not internally consistent. GH is a wolf because scum don't want to be the center of attention or drive events, when he's done both of those. GH is a wolf for not sufficiently looking into khaan's past games, when you haven't bothered to look at GH's past games.

You're distorting my statements.

He didn't make himself the center of events. Novice and Viper, and maybe one or two others, did. GH made a quick case, then stood his ground. The Raith vote was D2. I'm talking about D1 events.

I'm not blaming him for broadly not investigating other Khaan games, but for not taking opportunities to use content from other Khaan games. If GH says the content of another game makes his current play look townier, I will look at it. Until then, seeing as I haven't made a case specifically on the basis of past games' events, I don't have an obligation to.

Montmorency

05-28-2017, 20:42

Why is he your only alternative?

What about: csargo, champ, autolycus, bsmith, jabbz?

Why does my read matter? You said you don't like my reads and you're voting GH, who I town-read, anyways.

Neutral. Everyone is neutral, except slight town leans on you/Chox and on Viper. I've said this.

Just reminding you, chief.

Barto, I suspect you for your approach to the poisoning question yesterday.

Zack

05-28-2017, 20:43

You're distorting my statements.

He didn't make himself the center of events. Novice and Viper, and maybe one or two others, did. GH made a quick case, then stood his ground. The Raith vote was D2. I'm talking about D1 events.

I'm not blaming him for broadly not investigating other Khaan games, but for not taking opportunities to use content from other Khaan games. If GH says the content of another game makes his current play look townier, I will look at it. Until then, seeing as I haven't made a case specifically on the basis of past games' events, I don't have an obligation to.

why does the d2 distinction matter? If me/choxorn is a villager (which I am and you don't seem to dispute), and GH is a wolf, then his vote was purely to bring attention to himself with no real gain. A direct contradiction of what you are saying scum do. Doesn't matter if it was Day 2 instead of Day 1.

If I quote a random post GH made in another game, and you don't look into it further, will you vote yourself since that makes you scum? I'm giving you an opportunity to expand the case!

El Barto

05-28-2017, 20:44

Barto, I suspect you for your approach to the poisoning question yesterday.
Mon bleu! Do go on, mon ami.

Manasi

05-28-2017, 20:46

El Barto

I was born in America but both of my parents moved from India to finish college, so from birth they both spoke Tamil to me. I didn't know English until I was around 3.

Zack

05-28-2017, 20:47

Neutral. Everyone is neutral, except slight town leans on you/Chox and on Viper. I've said this.

Just reminding you, chief.

Barto, I suspect you for your approach to the poisoning question yesterday.

Again, you think wolf Barto puts himself into the center of attention like that when he didn't need to at all?

You're starting with this assertion that mafia don't put themselves in the center of attention if they can avoid it, yet your only two scum leans in the whole game both put themselves in the center of attention when they did not need to, for seemingly little gain (as wolves). If your response to this is to say "well it's not d1," I don't buy that because what's the difference? Still early game if you want to frame it that way.

El Barto

05-28-2017, 20:48

I was born in America but both of my parents moved from India to finish college, so from birth they both spoke Tamil to me. I didn't know English until I was around 3.
Fascinating. We do have some more people from the former Raj here.

novice

05-28-2017, 20:48

So Monty, upon seeing GH make a case against Seireikhaan and noticing yourself a possible scum tell on Seireikhaan, you decide that this scum tell should be used for trapping scum GH, based on the questionable assumption that only townies would add said scum tell to their case?

It sounds incredibly contrived. Why not just join GH on the Khaan wagon and evaluate GH after seeing Khaan's flip?

Montmorency

05-28-2017, 20:49

why does the d2 distinction matter? If me/choxorn is a villager (which I am and you don't seem to dispute), and GH is a wolf, then his vote was purely to bring attention to himself with no real gain. A direct contradiction of what you are saying scum do. Doesn't matter if it was Day 2 instead of Day 1.

If I quote a random post GH made in another game, and you don't look into it further, will you vote yourself since that makes you scum? I'm giving you an opportunity to expand the case!

1. D1 and D2 are categorically-different stages in a game. In addition, the environments of D1 and D2 in practice for this game are different. I don't accept your bizarre implication that GH's actions shouldn't be affected by the thread history or activity.
2. Unlikely, since it's just a random quote that probably has no relevance to the present.

El Barto

05-28-2017, 20:51

Again, you think wolf Barto puts himself into the center of attention like that when he didn't need to at all?
Given that one poisoner already was deceased, it would have been surprisingly easy to pin that death on him or any others that might later be revealed.

Montmorency

05-28-2017, 20:53

Again, you think wolf Barto puts himself into the center of attention like that when he didn't need to at all?

You're starting with this assertion that mafia don't put themselves in the center of attention if they can avoid it, yet your only two scum leans in the whole game both put themselves in the center of attention when they did not need to, for seemingly little gain (as wolves). If your response to this is to say "well it's not d1," I don't buy that because what's the difference? Still early game if you want to frame it that way.

For the Raith vote, I did in fact mention that it's a slightly-townward factor. A scum GH could have been using it to his advantage. It's not clearing.

Barto in particular likes to take the center of attention with panache, especially as scum.

So Monty, upon seeing GH make a case against Seireikhaan and noticing yourself a possible scum tell on Seireikhaan, you decide that this scum tell should be used for trapping scum GH, based on the questionable assumption that only townies would add said scum tell to their case?

It sounds incredibly contrived. Why not just join GH on the Khaan wagon and evaluate GH after seeing Khaan's flip?

Why would I join him on Khaan? You mean, to develop a case over several days? I don't have that patience.

Zack

05-28-2017, 21:00

For the Raith vote, I did in fact mention that it's a slightly-townward factor. A scum GH could have been using it to his advantage. It's not clearing.

Barto in particular likes to take the center of attention with panache, especially as scum.

Why would I join him on Khaan? You mean, to develop a case over several days? I don't have that patience.
What specifically makes the d2 environment different from d1?

I disagree about Barto. When we were scum teammates in Pizza's recent game, he just lurked and did nothing. It was pretty much the exact opposite of being the center of attention.

It also bothers me how you just call everyone neutral. Add on to that your barto and gh reads, and it feels like you don't really care that much about finding wolves. Your only scum leans are contrived for reasons I've pointed out (they did ONE THING you DID NOT LIKE so you won't let it go and you'll stay in that tunnel while they live), and you don't even bother to try giving a read on most of the game.

Montmorency

05-28-2017, 21:10

D1: Sooh, Novice, and Viper dominate the first half discussing meta and stuff. In the second half, GH creates the Khaan wagon, while Choxorn and I say some things that people don't like and become wagons.

D2: Chox is again a target, but the first half of the day is dominated by Barto and Manasi and the poisoning issue, as well as discussion over block claims. Barto issue fades for resolution overnight. GH is still low-key. Wants Choxorn, auto, and Barto lynched. GH deploys a customary chaos-dunk on Raith at the very end that could make himself look better in the long-run, even if it may piss a few people off for D3.

Champ

05-28-2017, 21:18

Is it wrong to village read novice for doing the post counts?

novice

05-28-2017, 21:19

BSmith's posts, if anybody's interested.

Apologies for being AWOL. Typical weekend for me, unfortunately. I have read absolutely zero of the thread so far, so vote: Monty for purely random reasons. Will do my best to read and get caught up before end of day.

Third Party Neutral Survivor? If only he’d claimed right away we could have avoided this whole mess. :clown:

RANDBETWEEN(1,17) told me to?

vote: Monty because of the above this time. Extremely open to changing this though.

As for me, RL is even busier than normal and work (where I normally post from) is no exception these days. Don’t expect a lot from me. Policy lynch me if you must – I won’t fight it (much), but know that I am not lurker scum this game. I’ll do my best to keep up but I’ll likely be on the lower end of my activity spectrum this game. I won't directly claim, but will say it rhymes with Manila.

What is/was the effect of the poisoning?

Bit of an x-post there. If you don't get cured you die at EOD? Is that the net effect?

As scum I’d much rather eliminate someone that goes against my victory condition. I’d chose to leave alone someone who I didn’t need to kill to win.

I can only speak for my end of the deal, but I hadn’t even read the thread yet when I made that post. It was truly random using a list of the players in excel and using that formula to get to the row number of the player to vote for. Monty was the lucky winner.

Yes.

Yes.

No. It’s day one. The only person I care about not dying is me.

My name was on the list too, so I suppose I might have re-rolled if my number came up. But maybe not. Wouldn’t have re-rolled anyone else though.

Because I hadn’t read any of the thread, and excel was a way to make my choice truly random. I was hoping to get caught up before EOD and potentially change my vote, but I wasn’t able to make that happen.

Well, sure. But even if I didn’t know, I’d rather have killed/lynched a townie than a neutral third party.

I think we're mixed up. I am talking from a hypothetical scum perspective. Not a townie one. As a townie I'd rather leave a neutral survivor alone as well to focus on scumhunting.

unvote; vote: Barto I'm fine putting some pressure on here. Barto is damn near impossible to read, but the change in his tone this game, along with the seemingly odd choice of poisoning target earns my vote for now.

The noise to substance ratio is beginning to get out of whack...

vote: Champ. A fair amount of posts but I don't remember a damn one. Seems active but isn't really doing much.

I've just collected the posts, my only takeaway so far is that BSmith is unlikely to be paired with Monty, seeing how BSmith's random vote almost got Monty lynched.

Apart from that... His votes seem very "uncontroversial", which is a red flag in principle, but understandable for someone short on time.

Champ

05-28-2017, 21:21

I'll just village read him

Zack

05-28-2017, 21:21

Is it wrong to village read novice for doing the post counts?

yes

Champ

05-28-2017, 21:22

yes

Ok I'll make up a fake reason then

novice

05-28-2017, 21:23

novice

05-28-2017, 21:27

D1: Sooh, Novice, and Viper dominate the first half discussing meta and stuff. In the second half, GH creates the Khaan wagon, while Choxorn and I say some things that people don't like and become wagons.

What had happened so far on day one for you to decide that trapping GH was better than sheeping him when he made his Khaan case?

(Refer to this post for elaboration:)

So Monty, upon seeing GH make a case against Seireikhaan and noticing yourself a possible scum tell on Seireikhaan, you decide that this scum tell should be used for trapping scum GH, based on the questionable assumption that only townies would add said scum tell to their case?

It sounds incredibly contrived. Why not just join GH on the Khaan wagon and evaluate GH after seeing Khaan's flip?

Montmorency

05-28-2017, 21:28

Yes, this is very nicely played by scum GH if that's your point. I don't see how that supports your argument that he is scum though.

Zack asked me what was different between D1 and D2. My post only addresses that question.

novice

05-28-2017, 21:28

Zack asked me what was different between D1 and D2. My post only addresses that question.

OK, thanks/sorry.

Montmorency

05-28-2017, 21:29

What had happened so far on day one for you to decide that trapping GH was better than sheeping him when he made his Khaan case?

(Refer to this post for elaboration:)

It's hard for me to think of a time when I would sheep someone I think is scum for the sake of collecting data. I'm sure it must have happened once or twice, but it's not a natural impulse for me. Also, as I said, I wasn't around to do anything else D1.

Zack

05-28-2017, 21:30

Zack asked me what was different between D1 and D2. My post only addresses that question.

The answer is nothing to support your claim that scum avoid attention d1 and relish it d2.

Zack

05-28-2017, 21:31

It's hard for me to think of a time when I would sheep someone I think is scum for the sake of collecting data. I'm sure it must have happened once or twice, but it's not a natural impulse for me. Also, as I said, I wasn't around to do anything else D1.

How did you think he was scum? He hadn't failed to respond to your khaan thing yet at that point in time.

Montmorency

05-28-2017, 21:40

The answer is nothing to support your claim that scum avoid attention d1 and relish it d2.

I'm not going to debate that the theoretical matter with you. For this game in particular, I think it shows that the players in question aren't inviting excessive attention by their own behavior on D1.

How did you think he was scum? He hadn't failed to respond to your khaan thing yet at that point in time.

I gave my warning "going for the badge" post, and was unavailable soon after.

Zack

05-28-2017, 21:41

I do still think novice/Zack/SV/GH/Csargo are villagers so should be fine running with that for a while.

Why Csargo?

Zack

05-28-2017, 21:42

I'm not going to debate that the theoretical matter with you. For this game in particular, I think it shows that the players in question aren't inviting excessive attention by their own behavior on D1.

I gave my warning "going for the badge" post, and was unavailable soon after.

but they were on d2, so your point that they avoided attention as a strike against them is meaningless

why did you think he was scum at that time?

novice

05-28-2017, 21:45

Tally as of post 972:

Lynch votes
2 votes: GeneralHankerchief (Montmorency (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748853#post2053748853), Logic (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748916#post2053748916))
2 votes: Champ (BSmith (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748912#post2053748912), Csargo (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748996#post2053748996))
2 votes: Montmorency (Zack (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748984#post2053748984), novice (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053749106#post2053749106))
2 votes: Jabbz (El Barto (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053749036#post2053749036), GeneralHankerchief (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053749058#post2053749058))
1 votes: Zack (Jabbz (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748950#post2053748950))
1 votes: Bsmith (autolycus (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053749060#post2053749060))
1 votes: Logic (Champ (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053749131#post2053749131))

Voting history:
GeneralHankerchief

GeneralHankerchief

GeneralHankerchief

Champ

GeneralHankerchief

Autolycus

Zack

Montmorency

Champ

GeneralHankerchief

Jabbz

Jabbz

Bsmith

Champ

Montmorency

Logic

Novice

Logic

Montmorency

05-28-2017, 21:48

but they were on d2, so your point that they avoided attention as a strike against them is meaningless

why did you think he was scum at that time?

But I wasn't using it as a "strike" against them. ???

GH? All that has been said before serves as my explanation.

Zack

05-28-2017, 21:50

But I wasn't using it as a "strike" against them. ???

GH? All that has been said before serves as my explanation.

um, yes you were

you have said scum avoid attention and stuff as a reason to condemn gh

when i pointed out this isn't true, you made up a non sequitur about how it's different because it was d2. I pointed the same thing out for barto, and when I refuted your claim that he loves attention as scum you didn't respond.

novice

05-28-2017, 21:50

Since there's no posting at night I'll do one of those cheesy "If I'm killed" speeches now.

Given the split votes right now there must be some scum in the danger zone. The split might look comfortable for scum because town is so disorganized, but it's also highly volatile and thus uncomfortable for scum (thanks to Pizza for teaching me this).

Remember this tally and subsequent vote switches when analyzing today.

novice

05-28-2017, 21:52

why did you think he was scum at that time?

GH? All that has been said before serves as my explanation.

You must have felt that he was scummy prior to laying a trap for him?

Montmorency

05-28-2017, 21:54

um, yes you were

you have said scum avoid attention and stuff as a reason to condemn gh

when i pointed out this isn't true, you made up a non sequitur about how it's different because it was d2. I pointed the same thing out for barto, and when I refuted your claim that he loves attention as scum you didn't respond.

No. I said that because scum prefer to conserve force on D1, and because town GH tends to be diligent and responsive, the fact that GH took his case seriously only to the extent that it was set in motion, without adding to it, even when boosted, counted as a scumtell.

I speak for what I have seen Barto do, you speak for what you have seen.

Montmorency

05-28-2017, 21:56

You must have felt that he was scummy prior to laying a trap for him?

I've said that I didn't like GH's case, so in the way of early hunches I needed to explore it.

Zack

05-28-2017, 21:57

GH? All that has been said before serves as my explanation.
No no no. You told novice that you already suspected GH before any perceived failure to follow up on his khaan case (when he asked you why you wanted to trap GH by offering a bone with khaan instead of simply pursuing khaan, you told him because GH was scum, when your main reasoning that I've seen for GH being scum is how he reacted AFTER that). You haven't talked about that reasoning afaik.

It's hard for me to think of a time when I would sheep someone I think is scum for the sake of collecting data. I'm sure it must have happened once or twice, but it's not a natural impulse for me. Also, as I said, I wasn't around to do anything else D1.

Why did you think GH was scum?

Zack

05-28-2017, 21:59

No. I said that because scum prefer to conserve force on D1, and because town GH tends to be diligent and responsive, the fact that GH took his case seriously only to the extent that it was set in motion, without adding to it, even when boosted, counted as a scumtell.

I speak for what I have seen Barto do, you speak for what you have seen.
Why d1 specifically and not d2? That's just arbitrary.

Are you now doing with Barto what you accused GH of doing with khaan?

Montmorency

05-28-2017, 21:59

No no no. You told novice that you already suspected GH before any perceived failure to follow up on his khaan case (when he asked you why you wanted to trap GH by offering a bone with khaan instead of simply pursuing khaan, you told him because GH was scum, when your main reasoning that I've seen for GH being scum is how he reacted AFTER that). You haven't talked about that reasoning afaik.

Why did you think GH was scum?

Yes, I have. GH did something weird. I prodded him. He didn't react in a clearing way.

Do you imagine there's no gap between initial suspicion and time-to-Tdome?

Zack

05-28-2017, 22:01

Yes, I have. GH did something weird. I prodded him. He didn't react in a clearing way.

Do you imagine there's no gap between initial suspicion and time-to-Tdome?

You said, "someone I think is scum"

You thought GH was scum based solely on that post about khaan? Seems like a huge leap, which I guess is why you're now trying to back down and say it was "something weird" you "prodded". But you told novice you thought it made GH scum, not weird.

Montmorency

05-28-2017, 22:01

Why d1 specifically and not d2? That's just arbitrary.

Are you now doing with Barto what you accused GH of doing with khaan?

D1 more so than other days, by default. It's not arbitrary, it's related to game flow and stages.

Make your case.

Montmorency

05-28-2017, 22:02

You said, "someone I think is scum"

You thought GH was scum based solely on that post about khaan? Seems like a huge leap, which I guess is why you're now trying to back down and say it was "something weird" you "prodded". But you told novice you thought it made GH scum, not weird.

I've already answered this.

Zack

05-28-2017, 22:05

D1 more so than other days, by default. It's not arbitrary, it's related to game flow and stages.

Make your case.
It is arbitrary in how you're applying it. D1 it's a scumtell for how he avoided going further in on khaan, on d2 when he brings a whole load of unnecessary attention to himself for little gain, you brush it aside as irrelevant.

Make my case on what? I gave an example of where Barto as scum that refuted your assertion he loves to be in the middle of attention as a wolf. You ignored this and refuse to go deeper into it.

I've already answered this.
Do it again.

I want to hear you explain why 90% of the game is null because lolidk, but you decided GH was scum and to trap him based on that one post about khaan.

Csargo

05-28-2017, 22:05

Are we just ignoring the fact that auto came in with that readlist with 2 scum leans and then voted BSmith? Is that not as weird as I think it is?

Unvote: Champ, Vote:autolycus

I'm just going to blindly trust Zack on Champ I guess, plus he was here and posted so seems good.

Why are we still discussing Monty's case on GH? It's bad, I thought that was already established. Discussing it further doesn't make it more or less bad. I don't know what to say at this point really.

Zack's stock is on the rise it seems.

El Barto

05-28-2017, 22:08

Barto in particular likes to take the center of attention with panache, especially as scum.
Well, it is all a matter of theatrics, n'est ce pas?

It also bothers me how you just call everyone neutral. Add on to that your barto and gh reads, and it feels like you don't really care that much about finding wolves. Your only scum leans are contrived for reasons I've pointed out (they did ONE THING you DID NOT LIKE so you won't let it go and you'll stay in that tunnel while they live), and you don't even bother to try giving a read on most of the game.
I agree that M. Montmorency does not look good in this light.

Ok I'll make up a fake reason then
(!)

Good God, Lemon Champ.

Since there's no posting at night I'll do one of those cheesy "If I'm killed" speeches now.

Given the split votes right now there must be some scum in the danger zone. The split might look comfortable for scum because town is so disorganized, but it's also highly volatile and thus uncomfortable for scum (thanks to Pizza for teaching me this).

Remember this tally and subsequent vote switches when analyzing today.
That is, assuming that there are actually any mafiosi in what you refer to as ‘the danger zone’.

novice

05-28-2017, 22:09

That is, assuming that there are actually any mafiosi in what you refer to as ‘the danger zone’.

One could argue that 0 votes is also in the danger zone.

El Barto

05-28-2017, 22:11

One could argue that 0 votes is also in the danger zone.
One could, but does one?

Montmorency

05-28-2017, 22:11

It is arbitrary in how you're applying it. D1 it's a scumtell for how he avoided going further in on khaan, on d2 when he brings a whole load of unnecessary attention to himself for little gain, you brush it aside as irrelevant.

Make my case on what? I gave an example of where Barto as scum that refuted your assertion he loves to be in the middle of attention as a wolf. You ignored this and refuse to go deeper into it.

Do it again.

I want to hear you explain why 90% of the game is null because lolidk, but you decided GH was scum and to trap him based on that one post about khaan.

Not irrelevant. It was something that has a townish bent, what he did, based on his personal meta. In that light, it isn't so reckless for a scum. I'm saying that the Raith vote was neither clearing nor scummy, i.e. it does not detract from my case on the basis of D1.

As mentioned D2, in Visor's Small Game Pizza and Barto were scum with me, and Barto tried to complement Pizza in the center of attention. Also, the breadcrumbing lesson which GH find mildly interesting.

No, to both.

novice

05-28-2017, 22:13

Tally as of post 991:

Lynch votes
2 votes: GeneralHankerchief (Montmorency (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748853#post2053748853), Logic (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748916#post2053748916))
2 votes: Montmorency (Zack (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748984#post2053748984), novice (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053749106#post2053749106))
2 votes: Jabbz (El Barto (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053749036#post2053749036), GeneralHankerchief (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053749058#post2053749058))
1 votes: Champ (BSmith (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748912#post2053748912))
1 votes: Autolycus (Csargo (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053749249#post2053749249))
1 votes: Zack (Jabbz (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748950#post2053748950))
1 votes: Bsmith (autolycus (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053749060#post2053749060))
1 votes: Logic (Champ (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053749131#post2053749131))

Voting history:
GeneralHankerchief

GeneralHankerchief

GeneralHankerchief

Champ

GeneralHankerchief

Autolycus

Zack

Montmorency

Champ

GeneralHankerchief

Jabbz

Jabbz

Bsmith

Champ

Montmorency

Logic

Novice

Logic

Autolycus

Manasi

05-28-2017, 22:16

Why Csargo?

bc he's my friend

Zack

05-28-2017, 22:17

Not irrelevant. It was something that has a townish bent, what he did, based on his personal meta. In that light, it isn't so reckless for a scum. I'm saying that the Raith vote was neither clearing nor scummy, i.e. it does not detract from my case on the basis of D1.

As mentioned D2, in Visor's Small Game Pizza and Barto were scum with me, and Barto tried to complement Pizza in the center of attention. Also, the breadcrumbing lesson which GH find mildly interesting.

No, to both.

So you're willing to consider how personal meta can explain away possible townish actions, but not to look into whether his d1 is something he does as town? All of your GH points come across like you had this pre-determined position on him, and then fit everything to match that position.

what does "complement ... in the center of attention" mean? How does that connect to his willingness to hint at, then claim a poisoning which could have easily been pinned on the dead 1x poisoner? What breadcrumbing lesson?

Why are you refusing?

Csargo

05-28-2017, 22:18

bc he's my friend

:love:

Csargo

05-28-2017, 22:23

SV has been entirely forgettable the last two days as well, after his D1 post bonanza.

Montmorency

05-28-2017, 22:25

So you're willing to consider how personal meta can explain away possible townish actions, but not to look into whether his d1 is something he does as town? All of your GH points come across like you had this pre-determined position on him, and then fit everything to match that position.

what does "complement ... in the center of attention" mean? How does that connect to his willingness to hint at, then claim a poisoning which could have easily been pinned on the dead 1x poisoner? What breadcrumbing lesson?

Why are you refusing?

So be a good sport and find something to make that case, instead of asking me to consider it as a hypothetical counter-argument?

In Visor's game, Pizza vigged - you, I think? - and breadcrumbed it to Renata as a town vig, explaining the reasoning to Barto in the QT. Here's (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692-Pokemon-Nuzlocke-FireRed-Mafia-In-Play&p=2053748622&viewfull=1#post2053748622) what GH thought of it in this game.

Because I'm not interested in rereading the thread to ISO everyone for your pleasure, and then displeasure when I can't offer whatever you want of me. I've said all I can and want to for today.

novice

05-28-2017, 22:27

Are we just ignoring the fact that auto came in with that readlist with 2 scum leans and then voted BSmith? Is that not as weird as I think it is?

It's kind of weird, yeah, although he does sort of justify it:

Hmm, no one's really standing out but Champ, and he has enough votes for now. I know I'm at risk of tunnel vision on Monty if I'm not careful, so I'll vote: Bsmith for now. Be back on tomorrow morning.
I read it as him deferring his earnest vote until today. He doesn't have much time left though...

Why are we still discussing Monty's case on GH? It's bad, I thought that was already established. Discussing it further doesn't make it more or less bad. I don't know what to say at this point really.

It's not just about the case but about the tunnelling. And the fact that Monty is still tunnelling makes it interesting to determine how he entered the tunnel in the first place. To requote Zack:

It also bothers me how you just call everyone neutral. Add on to that your barto and gh reads, and it feels like you don't really care that much about finding wolves. Your only scum leans are contrived for reasons I've pointed out (they did ONE THING you DID NOT LIKE so you won't let it go and you'll stay in that tunnel while they live), and you don't even bother to try giving a read on most of the game.

Montmorency

05-28-2017, 22:29

It's kind of weird, yeah, although he does sort of justify it:

I read it as him deferring his earnest vote until today. He doesn't have much time left though...

It's not just about the case but about the tunnelling. And the fact that Monty is still tunnelling makes it interesting to determine how he entered the tunnel in the first place. To requote Zack:

It's fine if you don't like or agree with it, as long as you understand me to my satisfaction.

Zack

05-28-2017, 22:29

So be a good sport and find something to make that case, instead of asking me to consider it as a hypothetical counter-argument?

In Visor's game, Pizza vigged - you, I think? - and breadcrumbed it to Renata as a town vig, explaining the reasoning to Barto in the QT. Here's (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692-Pokemon-Nuzlocke-FireRed-Mafia-In-Play&p=2053748622&viewfull=1#post2053748622) what GH thought of it in this game.

Because I'm not interested in rereading the thread to ISO everyone for your pleasure, and then displeasure when I can't offer whatever you want of me. I've said all I can and want to for today.
We're talking about barto, not Pizza.

So in your case on GH for failing to elaborate on khaan in a manner sufficiently pleasing to you, you are now failing to elaborate on GH in a manner sufficiently pleasing to me.