Small Mafia Game Pokemon Nuzlocke FireRed Mafia [Concluded] [Archive] - Page 5

novice

05-28-2017, 22:37

Tally as of post 1006:

Lynch votes
3 votes: Montmorency (Zack (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748984#post2053748984), novice (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053749106#post2053749106), Jabbz (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053749266#post2053749266))
2 votes: GeneralHankerchief (Montmorency (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748853#post2053748853), Logic (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748916#post2053748916))
2 votes: Autolycus (Csargo (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053749249#post2053749249), SeveringViper (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053749268#post2053749268))
2 votes: Jabbz (El Barto (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053749036#post2053749036), GeneralHankerchief (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053749058#post2053749058))
1 votes: Champ (BSmith (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748912#post2053748912))
1 votes: Bsmith (autolycus (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053749060#post2053749060))
1 votes: Logic (Champ (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053749131#post2053749131))

Voting history:
GeneralHankerchief

GeneralHankerchief

GeneralHankerchief

Champ

GeneralHankerchief

Autolycus

Zack

Montmorency

Champ

GeneralHankerchief

Jabbz

Jabbz

Bsmith

Champ

Montmorency

Logic

Novice

Logic

Autolycus

Montmorency

Autolycus

Montmorency

05-28-2017, 22:41

I think we've explored what can be explored and I'm not exactly satisfied. Finding someone (could be a scum buddy, even) to tunnel for reasons that noone quite agrees with sounds like the standard game plan for scum!Monty. I think I'll keep my vote on you and hope to extract as much info as possible from this lynch.

I've never said your suspicion of me is invalid. Tragically, it is misplaced.

Hopefully the scum will not have escaped reflection in this controversy. The info you should extract is that Barto and GH and all their accessories must go down.

novice

05-28-2017, 22:41

So I've gone back and reread Monty. I'm not a fan of his inconsistencies, or his zeroing in on GHC when he is not here to defend himself. In addition to that I mislike the idea of lynching GHC when he has justifiable reasons for not engaging in substantial self defense. As I stated earlier, I'm down to rake him across the coals tomorrow, but doing so today seems to be less than ideal both because we increase our chance of lynching town, but also because we get less valid information to work with whether he pops town or scum.

Given the tie, and the fact that I know I am town: Vote: Montmorency.

So you're expecting the tunneling Monty to exit the tunnel for today only because of GHC's absence? Seems like an odd expectation, frankly.

And the tie is hardly a reason for voting Monty specifically?

Zack

05-28-2017, 22:43

as things should be, top poster is not my place

Convenient timing since I'm still not sure of much right now and willing to sheep you in bringing Autolycus to the table.
Vote: Autolycus
Related, I'm wary of the first two wagons on the latest tally.

What's wrong with the Monty wagon?

El Barto

05-28-2017, 22:43

The info you should extract is that Barto and GH and all their accessories must go down.
Your cunicular affection is most distressing, I would say.

Montmorency

05-28-2017, 22:47

Who will save me, I wonder?

Zack

05-28-2017, 22:49

What's wrong with the Monty wagon?

I mean

His reads have been static and contrived. He's gotten plenty of votes throughout the game but dodged the lynch. He's not a PR. What's there to be wary about?

El Barto

05-28-2017, 22:49

GeneralHankerchief votes for Jabbz, Jabbz votes for M. Montmorency, who, in turn, votes for the General. Interesting.

SeveringViper

05-28-2017, 22:49

What's wrong with the Monty wagon?

His show today has made me think he's a bad lynch. Explaining his thought process and position well while showing he's not locked into GH being scum, such as acknowledging that the sudden rush of votes early on looked bad for the GH lynch and engaging in that extended argument with you.

novice

05-28-2017, 22:50

Your cunicular affection is most distressing, I would say.

Adjective
cunicular (comparative more cunicular, superlative most cunicular)
Of, pertaining to, or characteristic of a rabbit.

???

cuniculus
[kyoo-nik-yuh-luh s]
noun, plural cuniculi [kyoo-nik-yuh-lahy]
1. a small conduit or burrow, as an underground drain or rabbit hole.
2. a low tunnel, as to a burial chamber.
3. Pathology. a burrow in the skin caused by the itch mite.

Related forms
cunicular, adjective

Aha...

Zack

05-28-2017, 22:50

His show today has made me think he's a bad lynch. Explaining his thought process and position well while showing he's not locked into GH being scum, such as acknowledging that the sudden rush of votes early on looked bad for the GH lynch and engaging in that extended argument with you.

I disagree strongly with that interpretation, lol.

GeneralHankerchief

05-28-2017, 22:51

Don't want to chaos, only read the last page.

Like Jabbz as the lynch still but will switch to monty if i need to.

Full participation tomorrow night or tuesday

Montmorency

05-28-2017, 22:51

Of course, also never forget to tinfoil Zack.

SeveringViper

05-28-2017, 22:51

I mean

His reads have been static and contrived. He's gotten plenty of votes throughout the game but dodged the lynch. He's not a PR. What's there to be wary about?

So you took away from that long argument and explanation of his thoughts that his reads have been static and contrived? Okay.
And how do you know he's not a PR? There seemingly are a lot of PRs here, going by claims.

El Barto

05-28-2017, 22:52

???

Aha...
Yes, indeed, I was calling Montmorency a ‘tunneller’, as it were.

Csargo

05-28-2017, 22:52

I don't think it's as big of a deal as you're making it out to be.

That's rich honestly.

SeveringViper

05-28-2017, 22:53

I disagree strongly with that interpretation, lol.

That is very clear, but I'm going to work with my interpretation, and you'll need to convince me otherwise. ^^

Zack

05-28-2017, 22:53

So you took away from that long argument and explanation of his thoughts that his reads have been static and contrived? Okay.
And how do you know he's not a PR? There seemingly are a lot of PRs here, going by claims.

Yes, I've explained that thoroughly. I don't know how you can really say he's not locked onto GH with a straight face.

He claimed a 1x ability that he already used. Either he's a wolf or he's spent.

GeneralHankerchief

05-28-2017, 22:53

Monty tunneling is actually I think sort of town?

He did have that stupid fight with pizza when they were both scum in futurama though

Montmorency

05-28-2017, 22:53

So you took away from that long argument and explanation of his thoughts that his reads have been static and contrived? Okay.
And how do you know he's not a PR? There seemingly are a lot of PRs here, going by claims.

I used up my roleblock, so he's not wrong there.

Heck, I'll even forego zero-hour shenanigans since I'm not worth much. Tdome me.

Unvote: GH; Vote: auto

Zack

05-28-2017, 22:53

That is very clear, but I'm going to work with my interpretation, and you'll need to convince me otherwise. ^^

How about the mountain of words I've posted today?

GeneralHankerchief

05-28-2017, 22:54

Ooh interesting

Auto do anything today?

novice

05-28-2017, 22:54

Montmorency

05-28-2017, 22:54

How about the mountain of words I've posted today?

Mountain, meet mountain.

Zack

05-28-2017, 22:55

Ooh interesting

Auto do anything today?

He voted someone he called null. That is the case on him.

Csargo

05-28-2017, 22:56

Ooh interesting

Auto do anything today?

He voted outside of his scum list because tunneling...

GeneralHankerchief

05-28-2017, 22:56

He voted someone he called null. That is the case on him.

Kinda weak case

SeveringViper

05-28-2017, 22:56

Yes, I've explained that thoroughly. I don't know how you can really say he's not locked onto GH with a straight face.

He claimed a 1x ability that he already used. Either he's a wolf or he's spent.

And with his having explained why he's "locked" onto GH while having shown he's actually willing to consider and discuss the matter, do you really think that's a tunnel, or scummy, at this point?

Ok, and?

Csargo

05-28-2017, 22:57

Kinda weak case

Best case itt.

Zack

05-28-2017, 22:57

And with his having explained why he's "locked" onto GH while having shown he's actually willing to consider and discuss the matter, do you really think that's a tunnel, or scummy, at this point?

Ok, and?

Yes, yes.

So he's not a PR? Are you trolling me?

Montmorency

05-28-2017, 22:57

Why hasn't Manasi voted?

novice

05-28-2017, 22:57

Tally as of post 1037:

Lynch votes
3 votes: Autolycus (Csargo (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053749249#post2053749249), SeveringViper (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053749268#post2053749268), Montmorency (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053749288#post2053749288))
3 votes: Montmorency (Zack (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748984#post2053748984), novice (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053749106#post2053749106), Jabbz (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053749266#post2053749266))
2 votes: Jabbz (El Barto (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053749036#post2053749036), GeneralHankerchief (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053749058#post2053749058))
1 votes: GeneralHankerchief (Logic (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748916#post2053748916))
1 votes: Champ (BSmith (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748912#post2053748912))
1 votes: Bsmith (autolycus (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053749060#post2053749060))
1 votes: Logic (Champ (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053749131#post2053749131))

Voting history:
GeneralHankerchief

GeneralHankerchief

GeneralHankerchief

Champ

GeneralHankerchief

Autolycus

Zack

Montmorency

Champ

GeneralHankerchief

Jabbz

Jabbz

Bsmith

Champ

Montmorency

Logic

Novice

Logic

Autolycus

Montmorency

Autolycus

Autolycus

Zack

05-28-2017, 22:58

csargo brought up the auto thing to save monty

SeveringViper

05-28-2017, 22:58

He claimed 1-shot roleblocker who's used his shot.
You counterclaimed that...

...That does not mean he's scum at all, it was only in addition to a poor vote. That was repeatedly mentioned that day. He can't have looked better since?

Csargo

05-28-2017, 22:58

csargo brought up the auto thing to save monty

Def true

SeveringViper

05-28-2017, 22:58

Yes, yes.

So he's not a PR? Are you trolling me?

Are you? Why does this matter in regards to suspecting him?

Askthepizzaguy

05-28-2017, 22:59

:00 legal vote, :01 not counted

GeneralHankerchief

05-28-2017, 22:59

Jabbz cfd anyone?

Zack

05-28-2017, 22:59

Are you? Why does this matter in regards to suspecting him?

It doesn't. You're the one who wants to talk about it. I said "he's not a PR" as an additional note on why there's really no reason to be wary of lynching him.... He's scummy and he's not a pr.

Csargo

05-28-2017, 22:59

Hi.

SeveringViper

05-28-2017, 23:00

It doesn't. You're the one who wants to talk about it. I said "he's not a PR" as an additional note on why there's really no reason to be wary of lynching him.... He's scummy and he's not a pr.

Ok.

GeneralHankerchief

05-28-2017, 23:00

No info will stay

Askthepizzaguy

05-28-2017, 23:01

Stop posting

Askthepizzaguy

05-28-2017, 23:05

3 votes: Autolycus (Csargo, SeveringViper, Montmorency)
3 votes: Montmorency (Zack, novice, Jabbz)
2 votes: Jabbz (El Barto, GeneralHankerchief)
1 votes: GeneralHankerchief (Logic)
1 votes: Champ (BSmith)
1 votes: Bsmith (autolycus)
1 votes: Logic (Champ)
Manasi didn't vote

Tiebreaker Coin Spin coming...

Askthepizzaguy

05-28-2017, 23:13

https://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb225/askthepizzaguy/MafiaIMGS/Nuz_zpsnultvgeg.png

Day Three

Viridian Forest

The trainer managed to reach Viridian Forest, the last stop before Pewter City.

http://cdn.bulbagarden.net/upload/0/05/Viridian_Forest_FRLG.png

The bug catchers were no big deal, but then, something amazing happened. The trainer actually saw...

http://cdn.bulbagarden.net/upload/thumb/0/0d/025Pikachu.png/600px-025Pikachu.png

Pikachu

It was time to catch one. The electric mouse pokemon was a rare find inside Viridian Forest. So the trainer sent out one of their best pokemon to weaken it.

Hmmm...

Which one's the best?

Looks like you have two pretty good ones. Better flip a coin....

Wait, do we have coins in this universe? Don't we just have PokeDollars?

I know! You can just toss out both pokemon and whichever one lands first, will be the one that pops out! Since it's not a double-battle!

So, two pokemon were thrown out, but only one emerged.

Peeee.......kaaaaa......

PEEEEEEE......KAAAAAAAA

PIKACHU!!!!

https://media.giphy.com/media/n5QjXyK8ahQ6A/giphy.gif

Once again...

A pokemon has fainted.

Askthepizzaguy

05-28-2017, 23:19

Jabbz

05-28-2017, 23:27

So you're expecting the tunneling Monty to exit the tunnel for today only because of GHC's absence? Seems like an odd expectation, frankly.

And the tie is hardly a reason for voting Monty specifically?

I'm expecting for someone not to tunnel someone mostly unable to respond because it provides very little information. You're also ignoring the inconsistencies with his arguments, which are plentiful.

As to the other part, yes you're right it's a bad reason to vote for monty, but when you combine that with my dislike of his behavior, and the fact that it's a three way tie between myself, someone who isn't here, and someone that looks fishy as hell, yes it's a good reason to vote.

Jabbz

05-28-2017, 23:28

GeneralHankerchief votes for Jabbz, Jabbz votes for M. Montmorency, who, in turn, votes for the General. Interesting.

Just means that at least I'm consistent with my reasoning, and don't just go in for omgus.

Askthepizzaguy

05-28-2017, 23:36

Don't post at night.

I will leave these posts for visibility, but stop posting or you will be modkilled.

Askthepizzaguy

05-29-2017, 22:59

Orders closed for the night. Writeup incoming, don't post yet.

Askthepizzaguy

05-29-2017, 23:11

Askthepizzaguy

05-29-2017, 23:17

Bsmith has fainted!

He was...

Meowth, Level 12
http://cdn.bulbagarden.net/upload/thumb/d/d6/052Meowth.png/250px-052Meowth.png
Townie
No special abilities.
And he was...
Killed by a powerful Earthquake.

Begin Day Four

You may post!

Montmorency

05-29-2017, 23:28

So much for the lurker theory.

I suppose I should have lynched Jabbz yesterday - a player could terrorize scum with auto's abilities - but given the post-phase derp he's probably town too.

Novice was smart to suggest that scum were tiptoeing around the

Targets still painted firmly on GH and Barto. Who else could it be? Champ for projecting that aura of confusion before disappearing again?

Keep in mind that in a Pizza game with mass roles, 17 players and one flipped 3P survivor, we must be facing down 3 scum.

GH and Barto could easily be partners, so that's where we should be lynching. We only have a few lynches free - Final7 is LYLO - so it will hurt us to miss today's lynch, to lose a future buffer.

WTL
-----
Viper
Zack

Novice
Manasi

Jabbz
Csargo

Logic
Champ

Barto
GH

SeveringViper

05-29-2017, 23:28

Meh.
Posting right away to mention that I used up my block on Monty because I have no idea what I'm doing and still don't.
If anyone wants to lynch me after last day's results, go ahead, I understand, but it's a mistake. I acted on my intuition and judgement telling me that Auto was the better vote, believe it or not, and I intend to continue like that. I trust Csargo the most and probably will sheep him unless I have any idea what else I might do. That is all.

Montmorency

05-29-2017, 23:31

SeveringViper

05-29-2017, 23:35

That sounds discouraging. Why do you trust Csargo above all the others?

He's my strongest town read since he's been making good points without anything that makes me unsure/suspicious of him, that's all.

novice

05-29-2017, 23:39

novice

05-29-2017, 23:40

Novice was smart to suggest that scum were tiptoeing around the

Around the what?

Montmorency

05-29-2017, 23:41

He's my strongest town read since he's been making good points without anything that makes me unsure/suspicious of him, that's all.

Well, he's posting something like twice as often as active Csargo does. It could be part of this year's overall trend for him to post more.

Novice: wagons

SeveringViper

05-29-2017, 23:43

Did you think Monty was likely to go night killing?

Did I have any better ideas?

novice

05-29-2017, 23:44

Jabbz cfd anyone?

Why?

novice

05-29-2017, 23:45

Did I have any better ideas?

I don't know. What was the idea behind blocking Monty?

novice

05-29-2017, 23:47

I think auto was a fine vote, btw.

novice

05-29-2017, 23:50

I'm expecting for someone not to tunnel someone mostly unable to respond because it provides very little information. You're also ignoring the inconsistencies with his arguments, which are plentiful.

How was I ignoring them, by voting for him?

Montmorency

05-29-2017, 23:51

I don't know. What was the idea behind blocking Monty?

Forgive me Viper, but I'll list the most uncharitable interpretation:

Viper puts on a helpless display after showing forcefulness and determination in the first half of the game thus far. He claims a block against someone else who has claimed to have no abilities left, so the claim has no worst-case, which for himself leaves an apparent vanilla townie who arguably won't be targeted by mafia in favor of hitting potential PR townies.

novice

05-29-2017, 23:55

So you took away from that long argument and explanation of his thoughts that his reads have been static and contrived? Okay.
And how do you know he's not a PR? There seemingly are a lot of PRs here, going by claims.

He claimed 1-shot roleblocker who's used his shot.
You counterclaimed that...

To continue this thread, I find it strange that you didn't know what Monty's claimed role was, given that you counterclaimed it, Viper. What gives?

novice

05-29-2017, 23:59

Forgive me Viper, but I'll list the most uncharitable interpretation:

Viper puts on a helpless display after showing forcefulness and determination in the first half of the game thus far. He claims a block against someone else who has claimed to have no abilities left, so the claim has no worst-case, which for himself leaves an apparent vanilla townie who arguably won't be targeted by mafia in favor of hitting potential PR townies.

The last sentence is hard to parse. You mean he's dodging a future "why are you still alive" line of questioning?

Montmorency

05-30-2017, 00:05

The last sentence is hard to parse. You mean he's dodging a future "why are you still alive" line of questioning?

Yeah.

*which for his own part makes him out to be a vanilla townie of low priority for mafia kills.

Champ

05-30-2017, 00:20

Has anyone else been poisoned?

Champ

05-30-2017, 00:20

Also
Vote: Logic

SeveringViper

05-30-2017, 00:34

I don't know. What was the idea behind blocking Monty?
See my previous answer, and that he had claimed to have no uses of his role left, so it at worst was a null action?

Forgive me Viper, but I'll list the most uncharitable interpretation:

Viper puts on a helpless display after showing forcefulness and determination in the first half of the game thus far. He claims a block against someone else who has claimed to have no abilities left, so the claim has no worst-case, which for himself leaves an apparent vanilla townie who arguably won't be targeted by mafia in favor of hitting potential PR townies.
Nothing you need be forgiven over, considering all possibilities is how you play this game.

As for why I claimed the action, I wanted it known that I had used up my power so town knew it was no longer available, which outweighed the slight possibility I might be targeted after D3.

To continue this thread, I find it strange that you didn't know what Monty's claimed role was, given that you counterclaimed it, Viper. What gives?

....Are you serious? You should be able to tell me why this is a stupid question yourself.

El Barto

05-30-2017, 00:38

Very well, I still do not see why I should not vote: Jabbz again.

No info will stay
May I ask you to clarify on this, old chum?

Jabbz

05-30-2017, 00:47

Also
Vote: Logic

Why Logic?

Very well, I still do not see why I should not vote: Jabbz again.

Why me?

Specifics please from both, if that isn't too much to ask.

El Barto

05-30-2017, 01:00

Why me?

Specifics please from both, if that isn't too much to ask.
The reasoning is simple, Lemon Jabbz. I accused you yesterday and voted you for something, yet you refused to challenge my accusation. Even today, you completely ignore it. This is suspect behaviour.

Csargo

05-30-2017, 01:23

Csargo

05-30-2017, 01:24

Very well, I still do not see why I should not vote: Jabbz again.

May I ask you to clarify on this, old chum?

I second this statement. Have no idea what GH is referring to...

Jabbz

05-30-2017, 01:25

The reasoning is simple, Lemon Jabbz. I accused you yesterday and voted you for something, yet you refused to challenge my accusation. Even today, you completely ignore it. This is suspect behaviour.

I ignore what you said today about me? I answered literally the only thing you said about me. Further, being unwilling to explain your argument against me makes it seem like a fairly weak argument. I'll do the work though and go back and take a look. I'll be honest, I'm not expecting to find much of note.

Csargo

05-30-2017, 01:28

Well, he's posting something like twice as often as active Csargo does. It could be part of this year's overall trend for him to post more.

Novice: wagons

I can lurk more if you want, but that's less fun. Also, surveillance not cool man. Stop tracking my habits Monty.

GeneralHankerchief

05-30-2017, 01:32

Hey guys, I'm back to full access. Pretty tired from traveling so don't expect much of me tonight but I'll fully launch into things tomorrow. Just wanted to quickly clarify something:

May I ask you to clarify on this, old chum?

It was shortened for the fact that I didn't have enough information to make a decision between auto and Monty (still haven't read most of the posts made on Saturday) to feel confident in being the tiebreaker and thus decided to stay on Jabbz at EOD.

Csargo

05-30-2017, 01:34

Jabbz

05-30-2017, 01:37

Ok. So it starts here as best as I can tell.

I say

Hey folks, sorry for ghosting last game day, Kids graduations and like stuff kept me beyond busy. I've caught up but want to reread some things before I make any serious observations. In order to protect my ass from being booted Vote: Zack for old times sake.

You say

Once again, I must repeat my earlier statements that I have no abilities remaining, my good sir.

This is highly irregular.

vote: Jabbz

I addressed your vote with this comment. Something you evidently chose to ignore.

Zack is null, and I didn't view choxorn's case as overly substantial. My vote on Zack was purely a joke, anyone who knows about our past interaction wouldn't view that oddly I don't think.

You then asked about a list of policy lynch candidates Novice posted in 859, which included myself, Champ, Autolycus and Bsmith.

Novice them responds in the next post by saying he didn't like me anymore as a policy lynch, because of an ISO he did.

Again in the very next post, you promise an ISO, but say your vote stays on me regardless.

I shall perform an ‘ISO’ on Jabbz on the morrow, but his poor show today merits keeping my vote on him for now. Duty calls.

Mind you this is three posts in a row.

You never do report on that ISO you claimed you were going to do.

The last thing you post about regarding me is this.

GeneralHankerchief votes for Jabbz, Jabbz votes for M. Montmorency, who, in turn, votes for the General. Interesting.

Evidently you find that questionable for me, enough so to vote, but you don't explain why, and you ignore the context that led to those votes.

That is the entirety of your "case" against me. You said I failed to respond, yet I did so. To me it looks like you're either being very lazy, or you are scummy and looking for low hanging fruit. Care to share which it is?

El Barto

05-30-2017, 01:41

auto was a bad call yesterday rip, should of voted elsewhere. feelsbadman.
I suppose that you mean this:

3 votes: Autolycus (Csargo, SeveringViper, Montmorency)
So, what was it that made you suddenly see the light, as you appear to imply?

Hey guys, I'm back to full access. Pretty tired from traveling so don't expect much of me tonight but I'll fully launch into things tomorrow. Just wanted to quickly clarify something:

It was shortened for the fact that I didn't have enough information to make a decision between auto and Monty (still haven't read most of the posts made on Saturday) to feel confident in being the tiebreaker and thus decided to stay on Jabbz at EOD.
Oh, so you meant that you had not sufficient information and that therefore your vote would stay where it was. Am I correct? (it is me we're talking about so there's an almost overwhelming probability that I am, but still, anyway…) So why did you vote for Jabbz, Jenna General?

What was the rest of that thought Monty? What is WTL?

Why are you suspicious of Barto?
As for the first question, I hope that he will be able to answer that satisfactorily himself. But as for the second one, I think I had better repeat my earlier remarks to the effect that his behaviour is pathologically cunicular.

Csargo

05-30-2017, 01:47

What?

Csargo

05-30-2017, 01:48

Oh, willing to lynch?

Montmorency

05-30-2017, 02:19

I can lurk more if you want, but that's less fun. Also, surveillance not cool man. Stop tracking my habits Monty.

It was kind of hard not to notice, and confirming it takes 5 seconds.

But if it makes you feel better, I'll keep my reads on you static and promise not to be affected by any of your posts henceforth in this game.

If I decide to lynch you, it will be for no reason rather than for your content. :yes:

What was the rest of that thought Monty? What is WTL?

Why are you suspicious of Barto?

wagons, as I said in the post above that you responded to. Want to lynch.

Poison.

That is the entirety of your "case" against me. You said I failed to respond, yet I did so. To me it looks like you're either being very lazy, or you are scummy and looking for low hanging fruit. Care to share which it is?

If El Barto is looking for an easy case, why hasn't he gone after me?

Could it be that he and GH want to keep their distance from me so as not to be overly stained by my eventual flip?

UUJ@! "_ :UUU :O

Zack

05-30-2017, 03:52

Monty is still a wolf. Not a fan of the auto wagon, I didn't care for it at the time, didn't understand why Csargo was so insistent on it.

Viper being aggressive (but in a fairly shallow way as Jabbz noted earlier) then falling off a cliff, and going into "oh man idk" mode is like, classic Zack in Aspiring Rappers type wolfing. Forgetting the counterclaim is bizarre, as novice pointed out. Csargo is a weird place to be putting all your trust right now, too.

Some pause about the GH has treated Monty. He townread him for awhile for nebulous reasons, a pretty unusual reaction to someone blatantly tunneling you for silly reasons. Yesterday he finally seemed to be turning on Monty, then he didn't even care who was lynched between Monty and Auto (whose case he called "kinda weak").

Zack

05-30-2017, 03:53

Almost felt like he was fully aware of the backlash from his last deciding vote and didn't want to repeat.

Zack

05-30-2017, 03:54

That's rich honestly.

:smug:

Csargo

05-30-2017, 04:05

Montmorency

05-30-2017, 04:07

SeveringViper

05-30-2017, 04:48

Viper being aggressive (but in a fairly shallow way as Jabbz noted earlier) then falling off a cliff, and going into "oh man idk" mode is like, classic Zack in Aspiring Rappers type wolfing. Forgetting the counterclaim is bizarre, as novice pointed out. Csargo is a weird place to be putting all your trust right now, too.

Language warning for Logic:
https://i.imgur.com/vYniytD.jpg

I agree about SV.

I disagree about SV.
Et tu? Do you not see how terrible that case is?

Zack

05-30-2017, 04:48

I put a vote on auto for a valid reason. You can disagree with my reasoning all you want, but I thought it was good in the moment. I disagree with your read on Monty, and I don't think he's a good lynch.

I agree about SV.
Why do you disagree?

Is GH my partner?
I don't answer leading questions.

Zack

05-30-2017, 04:49

Language warning for Logic:
https://i.imgur.com/vYniytD.jpg

I disagree about SV.
Et tu? Do you not see how terrible that case is?

Is aggressive early, passive recently an inaccurate portrayal? You were barely present last day phase.

Montmorency

05-30-2017, 04:51

Why do you disagree?

I don't answer leading questions.

lol (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leading_question)

It's a direct question. If I am necessarily scum, then you can't countenance a scummy GH unless we are partners.

Zack

05-30-2017, 05:03

lol (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leading_question)

It's a direct question. If I am necessarily scum, then you can't countenance a scummy GH unless we are partners.
Whatever, I meant loaded. Clearly when I say you're a wolf, I'm omitting the implied I believe...likely, not stating a fact I'm 100% certain of. I'm not saying he's scummy, I'm saying there's stuff that gives me pause.

You are not above bussing a partner all game, and GH has been kinda weird with you.

Montmorency

05-30-2017, 05:08

Whatever, I meant loaded. Clearly when I say you're a wolf, I'm omitting the implied I believe...likely, not stating a fact I'm 100% certain of. I'm not saying he's scummy, I'm saying there's stuff that gives me pause.

You are not above bussing a partner all game, and GH has been kinda weird with you.

OK. But IIRC GH doesn't like bussing.

And it would be kind of sad for me to go into every scum game hard bussing.

Csargo

05-30-2017, 05:09

Language warning for Logic:
https://i.imgur.com/vYniytD.jpg

I disagree about SV.
Et tu? Do you not see how terrible that case is?

That I'm a weird place to put your trust. I don't understand why you'd sheep me, and your activity is all out of whack.

Zack

05-30-2017, 05:10

Your strong resistance to the faintest whiff of the notion is noted. :juggle:

Csargo

05-30-2017, 05:20

Why do you disagree?

Because I don't think it makes sense for him to tunnel GH for the entire game, almost getting lynched multiple times in the process, only to continue to pursue GH. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. It's more likely he's town, genuinely convinced that GH is scum, I think that makes more sense. It may not be the greatest logic, but I think that's the case.

Csargo

05-30-2017, 05:21

Your strong resistance to the faintest whiff of the notion is noted. :juggle:

What?

SeveringViper

05-30-2017, 05:27

Is aggressive early, passive recently an inaccurate portrayal? You were barely present last day phase.
Alright, so let's say that's the one good point in your case. Does that make me scum? Has that line of thought worked out yet this game?

That I'm a weird place to put your trust. I don't understand why you'd sheep me, and your activity is all out of whack.
Is simply trusting you more than others really so strange at this point?

Zack

05-30-2017, 05:35

What?
was to monty

Alright, so let's say that's the one good point in your case. Does that make me scum? Has that line of thought worked out yet this game?
What do you mean the "one good thing"? That's the meat of it... Obviously I do think it makes you suspicious, it's wolfy behavior. Your last question is nonsensical.

Montmorency

05-30-2017, 05:43

Your strong resistance to the faintest whiff of the notion is noted. :juggle:

I do not have conspiratorial relations with that general.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O52jAYa4Pm8

novice

05-30-2017, 15:22

Csargo

05-30-2017, 15:38

Is simply trusting you more than others really so strange at this point?

I question everything at this point. Why do I deserve to be trusted over others?

SeveringViper

05-30-2017, 16:25

I've had a busy day at work so I haven't thought about this game, but I guess everyone's been sleeping anyway.

Viper, there's no need to get upset at my questioning. I don't see the downside in questioning you for explanations rather than making my own assumptions, and I thought you subscribed to the same philosophy given your day one comments.

It's not about questioning, but how bad that question is. Or are you going to say throwing out blatantly ill-formed questions is investigation?

I question everything at this point. Why do I deserve to be trusted over others?

Okay, good. Because others have given me reason to be unsure of them at best?

Logic

05-30-2017, 18:40

Also
Vote: Logic
Very well, I still do not see why I should not vote: Jabbz again.

May I ask you to clarify on this, old chum?
Is everyone else actually afraid of placing votes? Champ opens up with a vote on me almost an hour and a half after the day opens, and then El Barto places only the second vote of the day only about 20 minutes later. And from then, no one has placed a vote?

Since I may not be online but once more today, I'll give my perceptions of everyone.

I still think Champ is the most likely wolf. I will Vote: Champ until someone more wolfy comes along.
My opinion of GH has softened a bit. I'm only giving him a soft wolf lean.
Csargo sounds like his play-style is similar to mine. Hard to read. Giving him a soft village lean for now.
Manasi seems a good villager
El Barto is a null. Poisoning Manasi was weird, and then alluding to it without outright saying it could have gone better. But otherwise, he looks more town than wolf.
I'm going to echo what others have already said about SeveringViper: lots of posts on D1, and rather quiet afterwards. I'm used to seeing the opposite from wolves, but I don't know if that is true around here.
Zack subbed in for Choxorn, who I never really saw as a wolf in the first place. And Zack feels very town.
Novice I keep seeing his posts and mentally attributing them to SeveringViper on first glance. Going to have to call him a slight wolf lean.
Jabbz for some reason has been defending me more often than others. I could be misremembering, but I think he has had more positive things to say about me than anyone else thus far.
Like GH, I keep going back and forth about Monty. I can't tell if he is walking a tightrope as a wolf, or a villager trying to look like a wolf, or I am just really bad at reading him.

GeneralHankerchief

05-30-2017, 20:16

Catching up on the stuff I missed from D3, here's a couple of quick hits:

---

My Jabbz case was one of him monitoring the thread (as evidenced by his thanking the one post by Zack I think?) but him not actually saying anything, meaning that he was fine coasting with a (what appeared at the time to be) lopsided lynch of a known townie (myself). His defense of having RL obligations that weekend doesn't really do much for me and it's a case of deflection since it doesn't address the core issue of there being evidence of him being present but not active.

---

The difference between my EOD behavior for D2 and D3 was that in D2, I had fully caught up to the thread with like 2 minutes ago and made a snap decision. In D3 I had only read about the most recent page and had missed quite a bit of time's worth of material, which is why I was more cautious with the vote.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

D4 business, my most pressing concerns:

It appears that Monty is still continually refusing to view anyone aside from Barto and myself through the "possible scum" lens. This is bad in and of itself, but I want something more concrete from you: You've been arguing with Zack fairly consistently ever since he entered the game but have not, from what I've read, actually given a concrete read on him. So: what is your read on Zack, and why is it what it is? Surely you've had enough interactions with him at this point to form an opinion on him.

Logic, some of your conclusions in 1113 are awkward. The Jabbz thing especially. Do you consider his defense of you to be townie or scummy? If it's neither, what's your actual read on him and why is it that way? Why has your opinion of me softened?

novice

05-30-2017, 20:21

Day one Tally as of post 436:

Lynch votes
6 votes: seireikhaan (Csargo (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053747732#post2053747732), GeneralHankerchief (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748091#post2053748091), novice (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748099#post2053748099), Cuthillius (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748240#post2053748240), Choxorn (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748261#post2053748261), Raith Kemmler (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748268#post2053748268))
4 votes: Montmorency (autolycus (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053747798#post2053747798), BSmith (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748093#post2053748093), Logic (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748128#post2053748128), SeveringViper (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748264#post2053748264))
3 votes: choxorn (Manasi (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748251#post2053748251), seireikhaan (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748259#post2053748259), Jabbz (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748263#post2053748263))
2 votes: GeneralHankerchief (El Barto (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053747721#post2053747721), Sooh (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748143#post2053748143))
1 votes: Manasi (Champ (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748200#post2053748200))
1 votes: Severing Viper (Montmorency (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748037#post2053748037))

Voting history:
Sooh

Raith Kemmler

Raith Kemmler

Novice

GeneralHankerchief

seireikhaan

novice

Novice

Montmorency

Manasi

novice

GeneralHankerchief

GeneralHankerchief

Unvote

Unvote

Severing Viper

seireikhaan

Montmorency

seireikhaan

Jabbz

Montmorency

GeneralHankerchief

Champ

choxorn

Montmorency

choxorn

Manasi

seireikhaan

choxorn

choxorn

seireikhaan

choxorn

Montmorency

seireikhaan

Day two Tally as of post 724:

Lynch votes
5 votes: Raith Kemmler (Sooh (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748363#post2053748363), Montmorency (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748626#post2053748626), Logic (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748677#post2053748677), Manasi (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748694#post2053748694), GeneralHankerchief (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748720#post2053748720))
4 votes: choxorn (Csargo (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748417#post2053748417), novice (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748435#post2053748435), El Barto (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748703#post2053748703), SeveringViper (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748709#post2053748709))
1 votes: Montmorency (autolycus (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748370#post2053748370))
1 votes: El Barto (BSmith (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748643#post2053748643))

Voting history:
GeneralHankerchief

Raith Kemmler

Montmorency

Montmorency

Montmorency

choxorn

choxorn

Montmorency

Autolycus

Champ

choxorn

Raith Kemmler

El Barto

El Barto

Raith Kemmler

Raith Kemmler

choxorn

choxorn

Raith Kemmler

Day three Tally as of post 1048:

Lynch votes
3 votes: Autolycus (Csargo (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053749249#post2053749249), SeveringViper (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053749268#post2053749268), Montmorency (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053749288#post2053749288))
3 votes: Montmorency (Zack (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748984#post2053748984), novice (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053749106#post2053749106), Jabbz (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053749266#post2053749266))
2 votes: Jabbz (El Barto (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053749036#post2053749036), GeneralHankerchief (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053749058#post2053749058))
1 votes: GeneralHankerchief (Logic (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748916#post2053748916))
1 votes: Champ (BSmith (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748912#post2053748912))
1 votes: Bsmith (autolycus (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053749060#post2053749060))
1 votes: Logic (Champ (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053749131#post2053749131))

Voting history:
GeneralHankerchief

GeneralHankerchief

GeneralHankerchief

Champ

GeneralHankerchief

Autolycus

Zack

Montmorency

Champ

GeneralHankerchief

Jabbz

Jabbz

Bsmith

Champ

Montmorency

Logic

Novice

Logic

Autolycus

Montmorency

Autolycus

Autolycus

novice

05-30-2017, 20:26

Tally as of post 1115:

Lynch votes
1 votes: Logic (Champ (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053749382#post2053749382))
1 votes: Jabbz (El Barto (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053749384#post2053749384))

Voting history:
Logic

Jabbz

Zack

05-30-2017, 20:29

novice

05-30-2017, 20:29

I still think Champ is the most likely wolf. I will Vote: Champ until someone more wolfy comes along.

People keep finding new ways to dodge my vote counter, such as sticking the vote in a bullet list.

Montmorency

05-30-2017, 20:31

It appears that Monty is still continually refusing to view anyone aside from Barto and myself through the "possible scum" lens. This is bad in and of itself, but I want something more concrete from you: You've been arguing with Zack fairly consistently ever since he entered the game but have not, from what I've read, actually given a concrete read on him. So: what is your read on Zack, and why is it what it is? Surely you've had enough interactions with him at this point to form an opinion on him.

I have 20% of the players as scum and am willing to lynch one other (Champ). I feel that I'm doing as well as anyone could hope. GH-Barto-Champ is a viable team and there is no reason for me not to push it for the sake of satisfying someone's demands for 'equal treatment' or 'investigating all avenues' (especially if those making the demands happen to be my suspects).

My Choxorn read was light town, and it's continued with Zack. Obviously the way he dug into me yesterday, he can do as either alignment, so that hasn't budged my read. If he continues to coast, I may take a harder line. If we lynch at least one scum and he gets mad at "tinfoilers", then we've probably caught him. :clown:

Montmorency

05-30-2017, 20:32

https://i.imgur.com/Fwz704D.png

Do you mean that to be unreadable?

Zack

05-30-2017, 20:33

If he continues to coast
~:confused:

novice

05-30-2017, 20:39

It says "This wagon formation always lynches a wolf".

Zack

05-30-2017, 20:40

Manasi

here's an email notification since you seemingly forgot about the game

novice

05-30-2017, 20:42

If we lynch at least one scum and he gets mad at "tinfoilers", then we've probably caught him. :clown:

I'm starting to tinfoil on him already, personally. Trying to figure out how day two played out if Choxorn/Zack is scum though.

Logic

05-30-2017, 20:44

D4 business, my most pressing concerns:

It appears that Monty is still continually refusing to view anyone aside from Barto and myself through the "possible scum" lens. This is bad in and of itself, but I want something more concrete from you: You've been arguing with Zack fairly consistently ever since he entered the game but have not, from what I've read, actually given a concrete read on him. So: what is your read on Zack, and why is it what it is? Surely you've had enough interactions with him at this point to form an opinion on him.

Logic, some of your conclusions in 1113 are awkward. The Jabbz thing especially. Do you consider his defense of you to be townie or scummy? If it's neither, what's your actual read on him and why is it that way? Why has your opinion of me softened?
I'll spell out my case against each well before EOD.

People keep finding new ways to dodge my vote counter, such as sticking the vote in a bullet list.I'm sorry to have inconvienced you. I am not sorry at how funny this is.

Montmorency

05-30-2017, 20:50

I'm starting to tinfoil on him already, personally. Trying to figure out how day two played out if Choxorn/Zack is scum though.

Sure, let's try it out.

If Choxorn was scum:

It could be that Logic or Manasi was already on the Raith wagon, and GH held out on the Choxorn wagon (his partner's) till the last minute in hope of some townie doing the work for him. When that failed to materialize, he deployed his end-run.

We know that it couldn't have been an off-wagon voter, since BSmith and auto have flipped town. However, there were two non-voters that day: Jabbz and Champ. In that case, inactivity could have hampered Mafia efforts to save Choxorn, and GH's vote could be either a very lucky coincidence or a desperate move by a partner.

I do think lynching Champ or GH today will shed most light on D2's events, with best opportunity to chain cleared townies in the future.

Montmorency

05-30-2017, 20:51

double

Zack

05-30-2017, 21:02

I'm starting to tinfoil on him already, personally. Trying to figure out how day two played out if Choxorn/Zack is scum though.

What have I done that is wolfy?

GeneralHankerchief

05-30-2017, 21:28

Okay, now I know Monty isn't reading my posts.

Logic

05-30-2017, 21:28

RE: Jabbz

This post makes me strongly suspect logic is vanilla town, based on the phrasing of my role pm.

I stand by my statement about logic. I find it unlikely that scum would make the connection I did to his post or would have come up with his post in the first place. Combined with a lack of negative feels from him so far this game, I feel safe putting him 98% town.

Doing my best but I overestimated the amount of time I had free, especially with this being memorial day weekend. Spent the morning with a VFW group putting flags on vet graves. Good times I know.

All I can say at the moment is that I find the voting on GHC to be odd, people make mistakes and day 1 is almost guaranteed for those. His defense does ruffle my senses a bit, he seems to be trying far to hard to be dismissive rather than actually defend himself, but then again his current travel situation could definitely justify that. I do however find his making my absence somehow a personal focus on him, rather that me just being busy. That really makes me feel like he's going after low hanging fruit.

I still stand by thinking that Logic is town for my aforementioned reasons.

I'm liking Severing more now than I did before, mostly because I thought he was Zack in hiding, now that is clearly not the case I find my reads to be substantially different likely because they were tinged by how they sounded compared to what I expected.

Zack is null, and I didn't view choxorn's case as overly substantial. My vote on Zack was purely a joke, anyone who knows about our past interaction wouldn't view that oddly I don't think.

Most of the rest I quite frankly haven't put enough time into. I would honestly be down to lynch GHC, but I feel that it is too possible the only reason he is coming across wrong is because he simply doesn't have the time to devote, so I'd be more inclined to want to see him be on the list tomorrow when he can defend himself.

I feel somewhat hypocritical supporting lynching a lurker, but in my defense I am contributing more than a few of the others, and I think that's the direction I'd head, supporting a group consensus on the matter as long as said consensus isn't myself.

I have logic as basically confirmed town, so I would love to hear what you have to say that would confirm him as wolf instead. That way I can decide whether you are just using poor arguments, or are being shifty AF.

Why Logic?

Why me?

Specifics please from both, if that isn't too much to ask.He has used "logic" 5 times, and in 4 of those, he is making a case for me being town, and the remaining instance is asking Champ why he thinks I am lock wolf. Not that I don't appreciate the assessment, but I can't help but feel that his case isn't strong enough. I know I'm town, but he is making leaps that don't completely add up.

As for you, I have a shortlist of suspects that used the antidote that cured Manasi's poison condition, and you are on it.

Manasi

05-30-2017, 21:33

Why Logic?

Why me?

Specifics please from both, if that isn't too much to ask.

Think this is a villager. Why would he care otherwise idk

This is a first for me, pretty exciting.

auto was a bad call yesterday rip, should of voted elsewhere. feelsbadman.

Seems kinda feigned. :fry: etc

Do you mean that to be unreadable?

Lol'd.

Hi I'm here.

Manasi

05-30-2017, 21:33

Why?

Why Logic?

Why me?

Specifics please from both, if that isn't too much to ask.

This is a first for me, pretty exciting.

auto was a bad call yesterday rip, should of voted elsewhere. feelsbadman.

Manasi

here's an email notification since you seemingly forgot about the game

Lol you think I turned email notifications on yet

I'm here tho

Had to say bai to the familia

Manasi

05-30-2017, 21:34

MULTIQUOTE PLEASE I'M SO SORRY FRIENDS

Montmorency

05-30-2017, 21:37

Okay, now I know Monty isn't reading my posts.

Please, you haven't said much since D1 other than to suss Jabbz, Barto, and Choxorn, and to defend yourself from me.

I've read all of your posts, and I gave your latest question a precise answer.

Was there something else you had in mind?

As for you, I have a shortlist of suspects that used the antidote that cured Manasi's poison condition, and you are on it.

I did not see you going there. Can you say more about these antidote hypotheses?

Manasi

05-30-2017, 21:44

As for you, I have a shortlist of suspects that used the antidote that cured Manasi's poison condition, and you are on it.

why they gotta be a suspect

they donated to a 10/10 cause

GeneralHankerchief

05-30-2017, 22:05

Please, you haven't said much since D1 other than to suss Jabbz, Barto, and Choxorn, and to defend yourself from me.

I've read all of your posts, and I gave your latest question a precise answer.

Was there something else you had in mind?

Okay, then you're purposely not bothering to read into them other than jam them into the reality you either desperately want to be true or you desperately want other people to believe they're true (still not sure which yet), which is quite possibly even worse.

I've made it clear on numerous occasions that I would have very low participation from Thursday afternoon to Monday night, inclusive. I mentioned it in the sign-up thread. Pizza clarified it and okay'd it. I mentioned it here. I mentioned it offsite. EOD2 was Thursday evening, 6 eastern to be exact. I mentioned twice that I was driving during that time and was stopping for a quick bite to eat and caught up with the thread. I read the posts, fully caught up with 2 minutes to go, and made a decision to go with Raith. I stuck around longer at that rest stop than I should have to see the flip, saw it, and then resumed driving.

Yet you're ascribing all of these motives like it was a predetermined play on my part or me executing Plan Omega as a last resort to save a partner or something. It's an intentional cognitive dissonance on your part and you seem to be unable to reconcile the reality of my RL situation at the time to your predetermined vision of events, and I'm starting to believe it's intentional on your part.

Zack

05-30-2017, 22:12

I should probably re-read some to confirm, but at the moment I think Viper and Monty are wolf partners. Maybe Csargo. When someone like Monty keeps getting votes but dodging the lynch, it usually means they're a wolf being saved or they're a villager being saved by wolves as a mislynch to keep in their back pocket.

But I think Viper and Monty are both individually wolfy for reasons I've talked about, and off the top of my head they make a lot of sense as partners (like I said, haven't re-read to confirm this).

Zack

05-30-2017, 22:14

He claimed 1-shot roleblocker who's used his shot.
You counterclaimed that...
This is something that bugs me, too. How do you just forget you counterclaimed someone like that?

Montmorency

05-30-2017, 22:21

Yet you're ascribing all of these motives like it was a predetermined play on my part or me executing Plan Omega as a last resort to save a partner or something.

When did I do that? You mean where I answered novice wrt Zack?

I was just giving the range of possibilities in a scenario where Choxorn was scum in the D2 wagons. That wasn't a case against you. Who did you say wasn't reading carefully?

Do you have a response to my Post 1119 response to you, on this page?

When someone like Monty keeps getting votes but dodging the lynch, it usually means they're a wolf being saved or they're a villager being saved by wolves as a mislynch to keep in their back pocket.

Sounds plausible.

novice

05-30-2017, 22:24

When someone like Monty keeps getting votes but dodging the lynch, it usually means they're a wolf being saved or they're a villager being saved by wolves as a mislynch to keep in their back pocket.

So it's null?
Monty wasn't saved on day three.

Zack

05-30-2017, 22:26

So it's null?
Monty wasn't saved on day three.

Yes he was... the Auto wagon came out of nowhere based on something pretty weak.

novice

05-30-2017, 22:27

I'm probably well on my way to scum MVP but Zack does make a compelling case on Viper.

Vote: SeveringViper

novice

05-30-2017, 22:29

Yes he was... the Auto wagon came out of nowhere based on something pretty weak.

Maybe I'm overestimating the scum team's sway, but it feels like they could have done better than tie the vote if Monty's scum.

El Barto

05-30-2017, 23:00

I do apologise for disappearing last night, Mr. Jabbz. Matters related to that commonly known as Real Life suddenly took over.

You never do report on that ISO you claimed you were going to do.
I shall see about this.

Maybe I'm overestimating the scum team's sway, but it feels like they could have done better than tie the vote if Monty's scum.
And risk confirming their identities?

Montmorency

05-30-2017, 23:32

And risk confirming their identities?

Zack believes that they did: his top team is Monty, Viper, Csargo, all voting auto yesterday.

But then if you are right, and my partners preferred distancing, then Viper and Csargo should not be counted as likely scum for that reason, and the other wagons need to be checked.

And who were on those wagons? Barto and GH on Jabbz, Logic on GH, and Champ on Logic. Auto and BSmith flipped town, so auto on BSmith means nothing, but how about BSmith on Champ?

Was it GH and Barto, my well-bussed fellows, setting up Jabbz as the alternative wagon and me distancing myself from them by choosing auto for the tie? Was it Logic and Champ ending off-wagon, hoping to stay UTR?

How deep does this hole go?

Csargo

05-30-2017, 23:38

Think this is a villager. Why would he care otherwise idk

Seems kinda feigned. :fry: etc

Lol'd.

Hi I'm here.

Seems good.

El Barto

05-30-2017, 23:55

I find it somewhat perplexing that Autolycus never disclosed his abilities. I think he could have defended himself better. But I will admit that it would not have been his style.

Policy lynch candidates:
Champ
Autolycus
Jabbz
BSmith
Has any of this changed at all, besides the fact that Autolycus and BSmith are now out of the picture? Your list alone makes me not want either Champ or Jabbz to die right now. 100% of those on your list, so far, have been proven to be members of the town.

Was it GH and Barto, my well-bussed fellows
Good God, Monty, not this again.

Montmorency

05-30-2017, 23:59

Has any of this changed at all, besides the fact that Autolycus and BSmith are now out of the picture? Your list alone makes me not want either Champ or Jabbz to die right now. 100% of those on your list, so far, have been proven to be members of the town.

50% of his list.

Good God, Monty, not this again.

So you're saying that we shouldn't investigate the other wagons to find my partners? Do you believe, after all, that Csargo and Viper are my partners and that they were prepared to reveal themselves? Or are you slyly implying that Logic should be lynched, given your ostensibly-distinct reluctance to consider Champ as relayed to novice?

Zack

05-31-2017, 00:00

no one else has been poisoned?

Montmorency

05-31-2017, 00:04

no one else has been poisoned?

Cuth is long-dead, and Barto claimed to have used his 1X Poison on Manasi.

All the night kills so far seem to have been standard Mafia kills, except

Elsewhere, a pokemon used Thunderbolt!

https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2786/4249181291_6dc902f004_z.jpg?zz=1

...It wasn't very effective.

which appears to be a failed attack of some sort N2.

El Barto

05-31-2017, 00:08

50% of his list.
A full 100% of those who died, Monty. The tendency is strong.

So you're saying that we shouldn't investigate the other wagons to find my partners? Do you believe, after all, that Csargo and Viper are my partners and that they were prepared to reveal themselves? Or are you slyly implying that Logic should be lynched, given your ostensibly-distinct reluctance to consider Champ as relayed to novice?
All I was expressing was surprise and exasperation at the fact that you still think that GeneralHankerchief and myself are part of the same ‘Mafia’ team.

I have not gotten around to reading what Logic has posted this phase. I am still trying to untangle whatever it was that I was supposed to untangle from Jabbz's earlier posts.

Zack

05-31-2017, 00:08

the n2 kill was different

thrown rock instead of earthquake

Montmorency

05-31-2017, 00:11

the n2 kill was different

thrown rock instead of earthquake

I think it's clear the Mafia are rock-type Pokemon.

SeveringViper

05-31-2017, 00:25

Hot Take: Zack and Novice are scum trying to bury me (and Monty by association) through playing up and pushing BS about my activity patterns and some nonsense about my forgetting my counterclaim. Discuss.

Zack

05-31-2017, 00:39

Montmorency

05-31-2017, 00:42

Honestly, you feel kind of weird today.

What happened to "If anyone wants to lynch me after yesterday's results, go ahead..."?

You're not going to ask me to put up money for a 50% stake in a microbrewery startup, right? :smash:

SeveringViper

05-31-2017, 00:56

You haven't been proactive and are just passively reacting to things. Discuss.

Do you honestly have a problem with my choosing to take that approach or my feeling that there was nothing worth proactively pursuing? Discuss. Or don't bother, if that's really all you have.

Honestly, you feel kind of weird today.

What happened to "If anyone wants to lynch me after yesterday's results, go ahead..."?

You're not going to ask me to put up money for a 50% stake in a microbrewery startup, right? :smash:

I am self-admittedly quite weird, yes. Should I bother trying to appear more normal?

And where in that did I say I was just going to lay down and wait for punishment? All I said was that I would understand people suspecting me for that, not that I would throw myself on their swords. I prefer continuing to say and do what I deem worthwhile, thank you. ^^

Also, I don't get involved with alcohol or anything that inhibits your mental capacity, like stubbornly suspecting someone for weak/nonsensical reasons. :smash:

novice

05-31-2017, 01:00

SeveringViper

05-31-2017, 01:04

So you didn't forget your counterclaim?

*sigh*

THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ANYTHING.

What you quoted was my responding to Zack because I thought that he was saying Monty was not a PR, role used up or not, and had no reason to assume that, especially with the amount of PRs claimed and flipped. I honestly have no idea how you get my forgetting my counterclaim out of that, if you're being genuine.

Zack

05-31-2017, 01:15

Do you honestly have a problem with my choosing to take that approach or my feeling that there was nothing worth proactively pursuing? Discuss. Or don't bother, if that's really all you have.

Yes. You've done nothing today except defend yourself with an annoying tone.

SeveringViper

05-31-2017, 01:33

Yes. You've done nothing today except defend yourself with an annoying tone.

lol
And you've done almost nothing but come after me with a tiresome half-baked case.

Funny seeing you talk about an annoying tone just from what I've seen of you here, btw.

Zack

05-31-2017, 01:41

lol
And you've done almost nothing but come after me with a tiresome half-baked case.

Funny seeing you talk about an annoying tone just from what I've seen of you here, btw.
Stop being petty and do something more productive please.

SeveringViper

05-31-2017, 01:47

Stop being petty and do something more productive please.

Hm, like Vote: Zack, perhaps?
Let's play~

Zack

05-31-2017, 01:49

Hm, like Vote: Zack, perhaps?
Let's play~

If you're serious, list out your reasons for your vote other that don't include me voicing suspicion of you.

El Barto

05-31-2017, 01:54

Hm, like Vote: Zack, perhaps?
Let's play~
I am just back from my meal. You sorely tempt me vote for you with this, Mr. Viper.

SeveringViper

05-31-2017, 01:55

If you're serious, list out your reasons for your vote other that don't include me voicing suspicion of you.

You have spent today pushing a blatantly dumb case against me while being quite willing to mock and attempt to discredit others. Novice is falling in line with your garbage while putting in just enough of a show of asking questions of you. And you're positioning someone I read much higher on the town scale than you to get the noose next.
Does that work for you?

SeveringViper

05-31-2017, 01:56

I am just back from my meal. You sorely tempt me vote for you with this, Mr. Viper.

Go on....? Do you not see what provoked me into this?

Zack

05-31-2017, 02:00

You have spent today pushing a blatantly dumb case against me
Okay, so:

1. OMGUS, which I told you not to list but you still did anyways.

while being quite willing to mock and attempt to discredit others.
2. Not sure what you mean. This describes you more than me.

Novice is falling in line with your garbage while putting in just enough of a show of asking questions of you.
3. So it's an associative read? You don't like people voicing suspicion of you, so they're wolves?

And you're positioning someone I read much higher on the town scale than you to get the noose next.
4. That seems circular.

Does that work for you?
Nope.

Logic

05-31-2017, 02:04

why they gotta be a suspect

they donated to a 10/10 cause
It was the word that came to mind. "Suspect" need not be a negative term, but in this context was probably not the best word to use.

Stop being petty and do something more productive please.

Hm, like Vote: Zack, perhaps?
Let's play~
So, Zack tells you to not be petty, and then you double-down on doing exactly the opposite?

I am just back from my meal. You sorely tempt me vote for you with this, Mr. Viper.If Champ doesn't gain any traction, I may join you. SV is, at best, hiding something.

El Barto

05-31-2017, 02:04

While I am engaged in a battle with my printer, please look at Zack's latest post (#1168) for an answer, my viperine friend.

Zack

05-31-2017, 02:15

Posting right away to mention that I used up my block on Monty because I have no idea what I'm doing and still don't.
But it's suspicious of me to push him and he's a strong town read...

SeveringViper

05-31-2017, 02:36

Okay, so:

1. OMGUS, which I told you not to list but you still did anyways.

2. Not sure what you mean. This describes you more than me.

3. So it's an associative read? You don't like people voicing suspicion of you, so they're wolves?

4. That seems circular.

Nope.

1. Oh, so voting someone for pushing a insultingly terrible case all day so far is OMGUS just because it happens to have your name?

2.
GeneralHankerchief

you've been active in the forum all day. are you just idling on your phone or what?
-Poking GH in an insulting tone (and I haven't seen his activity outside the game, but I'd think they're decently sizeable posts or this is a silly and dumb poke, right?)

His reads have been static and contrived.
-Discrediting his reads and thoughts in addition to your painting him as tunneling.

So he's not a PR? Are you trolling me?
-Misrepresenting and insulting me.

Your last question is nonsensical.
-Ignoring and discrediting said question.

Manasi

here's an email notification since you seemingly forgot about the game
-More poking people in an insulting way, then ignoring her after that to go back to me and Monty.

Stop being petty and do something more productive please.

-Mocking me for being petty over fighting the rotting garbage of a case you've been trying to push today.

So it describes me more, huh? Go on, show me what you mean, then. I've shown yours.

3. Yes, if and when you flip wolf (as I expect), your interactions today don't look good for Novice. And more misrepresenting/discrediting for 2., thanks.

4. What? Are you or are you not setting up Monty to be lynched next?

(You missed) 5. Fine.

El Barto

05-31-2017, 02:37

All right, Mr. Jabbz. While I go through your quotes, may I ask you why you voted for Zack so strangely last phase?

El Barto

05-31-2017, 02:40

Meanwhile, Mr. Viper, have you ever played with Zack before?

Montmorency

05-31-2017, 02:42

I don't know what to make of Viper anymore. Novice and Zack may well be scum, but the fact that they are being hard on you doesn't indicate that they are teamed. Recall that novice had Choxorn/Zack tied D2. And even if that were bussing, I don't believe they would interact so much afterward. Some of the things you said recently are difficult to interpret; others may be misunderstood. I see a straightforward way to clear up the counterclaim question for one, but I won't answer for you. Just approach it literally and move on. At least explain your impressions and thinking from N3 to morning.

FYI, when Jabbz had his first game with Zack last year, the two had a row over tone and style similar to what's happening now. Zack has a relatively-abrasive way of interacting, and you may be especially sensitive right now. See what you get if you re-evaluate his posts in that light.

I want to vote Champ to benchmark the wagon, but I don't want to be locked into that for the sake of helping Viper. GH and Barto need to be talked about more.

Logic, please explain your antidote shortlist.

SeveringViper

05-31-2017, 02:45

So, Zack tells you to not be petty, and then you double-down on doing exactly the opposite?
Why don't you look at my given explanation, hm?

While I am engaged in a battle with my printer, please look at Zack's latest post (#1168) for an answer, my viperine friend.
Well then.

But it's suspicious of me to push him and he's a strong town read...

a, I never said I trusted him completely. B. No. I dislike your push of Monty, because he absolutely is a stronger town read than you, but I suspect you for the insultingly bad push on me. And again, no, that is not an OMGUS, the case is just too blatantly bad and I can't believe town is pushing it.

Zack

05-31-2017, 02:52

warning: multi-quotes

1. Oh, so voting someone for pushing a insultingly terrible case all day so far is OMGUS just because it happens to have your name?
That's beside the point, really. I asked you to list reasons other than me voicing suspicion of you.

2. <snipped>

So it describes me more, huh? Go on, show me what you mean, then. I've shown yours.
Those examples are mostly either me poking lightheartedly at friends or being overblown.

I can't tell if you're being serious, but you have been combative all game. In a specific example, you repeatedly keep calling anything you don't like "stupid, dumb, garbage", etc and have pretty clearly been engaging me in a way that isn't exactly courteous and respectful.

3. Yes, if and when you flip wolf (as I expect), your interactions today don't look good for Novice. And more misrepresenting/discrediting for 2., thanks.
Okay. Isn't that sort of associative read something you called me stupid wolfy garbage for doing?

4. What? Are you or are you not setting up Monty to be lynched next?
I'm scummy because I pushed someone not as scummy as me seems like circular reasoning. You hadn't voiced any suspicion of me yesterday when I was pushing Monty's lynch that I remember. You blocked him last night anyways, so your claim that he's such a strong town read of yours seems dubious.

(You missed) 5. Fine.

Huh? I quoted and responded to everything.

Zack

05-31-2017, 02:54

Why don't you look at my given explanation, hm?

Well then.

a, I never said I trusted him completely. B. No. I dislike your push of Monty, because he absolutely is a stronger town read than you, but I suspect you for the insultingly bad push on me. And again, no, that is not an OMGUS, the case is just too blatantly bad and I can't believe town is pushing it.

Then why did you open the day saying you completely understand why someone would push to lynch you.

El Barto

05-31-2017, 02:55

I find a most distressing link between Jabbz and Logic. On Day One:

This post makes me strongly suspect logic is vanilla town, based on the phrasing of my role pm.
After that day:

I have logic as basically confirmed town, so I would love to hear what you have to say that would confirm him as wolf instead. That way I can decide whether you are just using poor arguments, or are being shifty AF.
When novice questioned your reasons:

I covered that on day 1 IIRC. There is something he said about his role that meshes well with my understanding of my role, which is the same as what he claims. While it is possible that he is coming at that understanding from a different perspective, IE Scum getting access to pm text for town, I find it unlikely scum would come to the same conclusion due to their context being different. I would comment deeper on it but I risk hedging too close to talking about PM's at that point, so I cant.
Then you say, a few posts further down you mention owing Zack a read on Montmorency (see below).

And on Day Four:

Also
Vote: Logic
Why Logic? (…)
It is quite likely that there is a deeper connection between the two of you. Your continued defence of him as ‘lock town’ based on the one first-day post is quite baffling.
More ludic, or possibly lucid, minds should converge on this, I think.

So I've gone back and reread Monty. I'm not a fan of his inconsistencies, or his zeroing in on GHC when he is not here to defend himself. In addition to that I mislike the idea of lynching GHC when he has justifiable reasons for not engaging in substantial self defense. As I stated earlier, I'm down to rake him across the coals tomorrow, but doing so today seems to be less than ideal both because we increase our chance of lynching town, but also because we get less valid information to work with whether he pops town or scum.

Given the tie, and the fact that I know I am town: Vote: Montmorency.
So, what do you think of that cunicular user, as of this new Day Phase?

Zack

05-31-2017, 02:56

FYI, when Jabbz had his first game with Zack last year, the two had a row over tone and style similar to what's happening now. Zack has a relatively-abrasive way of interacting, and you may be especially sensitive right now. See what you get if you re-evaluate his posts in that light.
I take issue with this. I've tried to stay pretty level-headed going back and forth with someone who keeps lashing out and calling my arguments stupid garbage and the like. He is being much more abrasive than I.

SeveringViper

05-31-2017, 02:57

Meanwhile, Mr. Viper, have you ever played with Zack before?
Can you convince me this matters?

I don't know what to make of Viper anymore. Novice and Zack may well be scum, but the fact that they are being hard on you doesn't indicate that they are teamed. Recall that novice had Choxorn/Zack tied D2. And even if that were bussing, I don't believe they would interact so much afterward. Some of the things you said recently are difficult to interpret; others may be misunderstood. I see a straightforward way to clear up the counterclaim question for one, but I won't answer for you. Just approach it literally and move on. At least explain your impressions and thinking from N3 to morning.

FYI, when Jabbz had his first game with Zack last year, the two had a row over tone and style similar to what's happening now. Zack has a relatively-abrasive way of interacting, and you may be especially sensitive right now. See what you get if you re-evaluate his posts in that light.

That's not why I connect them, please stop assuming OMGUS, thanks. Good point about D1, let me look back at the vote timings/progression. Is that a meta read or just a general statement about scum behavior? Can you list the things you find hard to interpret? The counterclaim question is a joke as I've already explained, and I've given my impressions and thinking on N3 and today already.

No. I'm just as relatively abrasive if not more, and I've listed and explained the difference in what Zack has said and done a few posts ago. I think I've been trying to evaluate posts by content and intent/effect over tone so far, do tell me if and where you don't see that and think I'm being sensitive, please.

El Barto

05-31-2017, 03:02

Can you convince me this matters?
You seem to take offence at his tone. He is, not infrequently, far more ‘abrasive’ as he has been called.

SeveringViper

05-31-2017, 03:15

warning: multi-quotes

That's beside the point, really. I asked you to list reasons other than me voicing suspicion of you.

Those examples are mostly either me poking lightheartedly at friends or being overblown.

I can't tell if you're being serious, but you have been combative all game. In a specific example, you repeatedly keep calling anything you don't like "stupid, dumb, garbage", etc and have pretty clearly been engaging me in a way that isn't exactly courteous and respectful.

Okay. Isn't that sort of associative read something you called me stupid wolfy garbage for doing?

I'm scummy because I pushed someone not as scummy as me seems like circular reasoning. You hadn't voiced any suspicion of me yesterday when I was pushing Monty's lynch that I remember. You blocked him last night anyways, so your claim that he's such a strong town read of yours seems dubious.

Huh? I quoted and responded to everything.

And I gave reasons beside that you were suspecting me.

Okay.

Okay, nice, you caught me, I'm aggressive in pushing things and abrasive and confrontational when I think something is based in/using poor reasoning. Tell me, is there anything I've called stupid/garbage where I've been absolutely unwilling to explain why?

Correct, that's why I'm not giving it any weight unless and until you flip wolf. I've already stated what I would point to.

So maybe I didn't suspect you then, because I actually thought you had some points and Monty wasn't exactly lock town? I explained why I chose him, now and before. Again, stronger than you. And you know, someone can be a strong town read and you can still be open to considering otherwise? Poor town lock someone in and refuse to act on the possibility they might be wrong.

That was a joke on how you left out 5. on your list despite having one final statement I replied to there.

Then why did you open the day saying you completely understand why someone would push to lynch you.

Because I made the deciding vote that put Auto on the table and led to his lynch? I said that I would understand why I would be accused and pushed over that, not that I wouldn't defend myself, and you can see that I did in that post itself. Your case is still bad.

SeveringViper

05-31-2017, 03:17

You seem to take offence at his tone. He is, not infrequently, far more ‘abrasive’ as he has been called.

As I have said, point to where I've solely taken offense to his tone.

El Barto

05-31-2017, 03:21

As I have said, point to where I've solely taken offense to his tone.
The fact that you haven't done it ‘solely’ does not mean that you have not done it.

SeveringViper

05-31-2017, 03:26

The fact that you haven't done it ‘solely’ does not mean that you have not done it.

Your point?

I pride myself on and consider it my line that however abrasively I respond to something, there is always substance behind it beyond "I don't like what you said". If you are going to say otherwise, please back it up yourself.

Montmorency

05-31-2017, 03:32

Zack, I notice that Champ asked

Has anyone else been poisoned?

at SoD. Did you have this in mind when you asked the same question just recently?

snip

Uh-huh. So what do you make of Logic claiming to have a shortlist of people who may have cured Manasi, with Jabbz being at the head of the list?

snip

Look, I'll just settle the counterclaim here. When you said this at EoD3,

And how do you know he's not a PR? There seemingly are a lot of PRs here, going by claims.

novice found it strange that you didn't seem to acknowledge the earlier exchange of information about my role (D2), hence the question of "forgetting". Another way to interpret it is that you were suggesting to Zack that I might be a townie and also hiding one or more powers, unclaimed and presumably unknown to Zack. I'm sure there are also other interpretations. You should understand, however, that the interpretation novice voiced was not unreasonable on its face and you shouldn't treat it as such. Something like this should have been cleared up directly and immediately, even if you felt that there shouldn't be any question as to the meaning.

Another complaint that novice and Zack voiced - and which myself, El Barto, and Csargo have echoed - is the difference in style and presence between D1-2 and now. Whether or not it should mean something, it is noticeable and people you town-read are concerned. Again, address this directly or obviate it through actions. There's no point at taking umbrage to the observation and concern, it becomes gratuitous.

You responded overall to these lines of inquiry with anger and contempt, to the extent that it became weird and unnecessary. And now most of the rest of the day has been them (in fact mostly Zack, not novice) wondering why you're acting the way you are and you growing increasingly aggressive over your perception that you are receiving attention for wrong reasons. This has clearly gone to the point of tail-chasing. Just, like, stop. Recover and reconstitute. If you have to, drop whatever point you feel you're pulling at with Zack and talk about something else.

El Barto

05-31-2017, 03:43

Your point?
I was just making an ancillary observation, my good sir.

Uh-huh. So what do you make of Logic claiming to have a shortlist of people who may have cured Manasi, with Jabbz being at the head of the list?
Hmmm. Oh, yes, post #1130. I only looked at posts from about #1100 onwards, and only those by Jabbz.
Compared to this earlier one (#619):

I have a strong suspicion that anyone that could do something about it, would.

I don't think anyone has an antidote just yet, if they exist at all.
It rings hollow.

Zack

05-31-2017, 03:47

Zack, I notice that Champ asked

at SoD. Did you have this in mind when you asked the same question just recently?
I didn't see that post, but my question meant the same thing.

Logic

05-31-2017, 04:16

Uh-huh. So what do you make of Logic claiming to have a shortlist of people who may have cured Manasi, with Jabbz being at the head of the list?
You have either misunderstood me, or misrepresented my statement.

I was clarifying my concern why I think Jabbz is claiming I'm a lock town.

And then I was answering GH's question about why I had softened my stance on him.

I did not use an antidote on Manasi, nor do I have any peeking ability that would give me such an insight. I have already claimed 100% vanilla.

I highly doubt that Manasi healed herself, so that leaves 9 possible candidates for healing left. Some of you are higher up than others. A claim likely does town more good than harm, yes? Someone could end this debate one way or another, yet no one has, and that could make me look rather wolfish, don t you think?

I have a strong suspicion that anyone that could do something about it, would.

I don't think anyone has an antidote just yet, if they exist at all.

And for that earlier statement: I have no reasin, aside from Pokê-lore to think an antidote was something that exists in this game. I had seen no sign of any items up to that point.

I'm off to bed, and I'll withhold my hypothesis on Manasi's mysterious benefactor for the moment.

Zack

05-31-2017, 04:18

healer should not claim right now, no reason to

Montmorency

05-31-2017, 04:25

I highly doubt that Manasi healed herself, so that leaves 9 possible candidates for healing left. Some of you are higher up than others.

I'm off to bed, and I'll withhold my hypothesis on Manasi's mysterious benefactor for the moment.

But that's all I've ever asked for. How can you put some higher than others? Do you assume the healer was town, and so whoever is towniest (to you) is likeliest to have used an antidote by default? Why Jabbz specifically? Hopefully we can hear before the end.

Zack

05-31-2017, 05:00

Let's not try to publicly identify town PRs.

Jabbz

05-31-2017, 05:37

RE: Jabbz

He has used "logic" 5 times, and in 4 of those, he is making a case for me being town, and the remaining instance is asking Champ why he thinks I am lock wolf. Not that I don't appreciate the assessment, but I can't help but feel that his case isn't strong enough. I know I'm town, but he is making leaps that don't completely add up.

As for you, I have a shortlist of suspects that used the antidote that cured Manasi's poison condition, and you are on it.

I would be more specific regarding this Logic, but I risk treading on rule breaking if I do so. You claim VT, and the way you talk about your role is not the way someone would talk about VT in a normal game. In reading my own PM I came to a conclusion that I feel is very similar to what you came to. You can find it fishy if you want, that's ok. I don't see much to gain by trying to cozy up to you, and it has in fact drawn a lot of attention to me, something scum Jabbz would mislike greatly. You don't have to trust me for my perception, but I'll continue to trust you.

Jabbz

05-31-2017, 05:40

My Jabbz case was one of him monitoring the thread (as evidenced by his thanking the one post by Zack I think?) but him not actually saying anything, meaning that he was fine coasting with a (what appeared at the time to be) lopsided lynch of a known townie (myself). His defense of having RL obligations that weekend doesn't really do much for me and it's a case of deflection since it doesn't address the core issue of there being evidence of him being present but not active.

There is a world of difference between having enough time to try to keep up on reading the thread, and having the time necessary to post arguments, which often require going back and forth through multiple posts. As to your implication that I'm lying about having RL obligations, I don't much care what you think. I'm not going to lie about something in RL because of an internet game.

Jabbz

05-31-2017, 05:41

I take issue with this. I've tried to stay pretty level-headed going back and forth with someone who keeps lashing out and calling my arguments stupid garbage and the like. He is being much more abrasive than I.

Yeah this is nowhere near the same. That game was hot for a lot of people, and Zack is keeping it pretty mellow.

Jabbz

05-31-2017, 05:48

I do apologise for disappearing last night, Mr. Jabbz. Matters related to that commonly known as Real Life suddenly took over.

I shall see about this.

And risk confirming their identities?

I feel you, and no worries.

All right, Mr. Jabbz. While I go through your quotes, may I ask you why you voted for Zack so strangely last phase?

As MM pointed out, Zack and I had a rather ridiculous row my first game here, both of us taking shit personally we shouldn't have. Since he joined in after the game had already started, I thought it would be an amusing vote to cast for Modkill avoidance, until I had something solid.

I find a most distressing link between Jabbz and Logic. On Day One:

After that day:

When novice questioned your reasons:

Then you say, a few posts further down you mention owing Zack a read on Montmorency (see below).

And on Day Four:

It is quite likely that there is a deeper connection between the two of you. Your continued defence of him as ‘lock town’ based on the one first-day post is quite baffling.
More ludic, or possibly lucid, minds should converge on this, I think.

So, what do you think of that cunicular user, as of this new Day Phase?

I addressed this a couple posts back, please feel free to reference that, or any of the other 8 posts I've made about it.

Beyond that however, I find it interesting that you are still going hard after me, without addressing the issues that exist in the case you made against me. You made claims against me that were fundamentally untrue, but rather than accept that your argument was flawed, you instead gloss over the major point of my post, and keep attacking me.

I think you feel that I'm under enough pressure that you can safely pursue me without having a real case, something town wouldn't do. I think that a Vote: El Barto is in order.

novice

05-31-2017, 09:43

Tell me, is there anything I've called stupid/garbage where I've been absolutely unwilling to explain why?

Errr... Yes? How could you forget that Monty had claimed a 1-shot roleblocker?
Anyway, let's move on. The following is a bit rambly but I'll just dump some thoughts.

SeveringViper came out of the gate today seeming frustrated, and I don't think scum have reason to be frustrated at this point. Monty's play today has been towny.

One possible source of frustration for scum is if their N3 kill was blocked. I've been suspecting that BSmith was a vig kill, seems like a good play for a vig to get rid of a lurker. It seems others have had the same thought since they're inquiring about poisoners. Apparently the flavor supports this being a mafia kill though? I'm not into Pokemon. SV apparently did not have that thought, he didn't link Monty being blocked on N3 with mafia possibly missing a kill. I wanted to hear his reasoning for blocking Monty because I think it had very little chance of blocking a scum kill anyway, since Monty would probably not be doing the killing if he was scum, given the amount of heat he took on D3.

In short, if someone did vig BSmith I think it would be beneficial to claim that ASAP. I'm currently assuming that he was not vigged.
If BSmith was indeed the mafia night kill I think that points to multiple scum being of the active persuasion. By killing a lurker we have fewer lurkers to choose between when lynching, but just as many active players as before.

I think it makes sense to speculate on teams at this point.

Regarding Zack, the case on Monty yesterday and on Viper today is the kind of case I like to pursue myself, and you can really get going picking apart the responses of the accused. I've mislynched many people with cases like this though. Some people just aren't good at defending even when town, or are too stubborn, or fail to see problems with their own play. I guess what I'm saying is that if Monty and Viper are town, which I find very possible, we're really making things easy for scum!Zack, and I'm a bit concerned that he just keeps pushing instead of seeing things from all sides.

novice

05-31-2017, 09:54

Third party: Seireikhaan

Deceased town:
Cuthillius - Poisoner
Raith Kemmler
Sooh - Roleblocker
BSmith
Autolycus

Hot takes:

Town, in no particular order:
Logic
Jabbz - Vanilla
Manasi

Leaning town:
Montmorency - Roleblocker
SeveringViper - Roleblocker
Champ

Leaning scum (more or less by PoE):
GeneralHankerchief
El Barto - Poisoner
Csargo
choxorn Zack

Did I miss any claims?

Vote: El Barto for now.

novice

05-31-2017, 09:58

Tally as of post 1199:

Lynch votes
1 vote: Champ (Logic in bullet point)
2 votes: El Barto (Jabbz (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053749541#post2053749541), novice (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053749550#post2053749550))
1 votes: Logic (Champ (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053749382#post2053749382))
1 votes: Jabbz (El Barto (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053749384#post2053749384))
1 votes: Zack (SeveringViper (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053749506#post2053749506))

Voting history:
Logic

Jabbz

SeveringViper

Zack

El Barto

El Barto

novice

05-31-2017, 10:23

I missed that Pizza has revealed that Raith was a 1-shot roleblocker and that he also revealed Autolycus' role.

Narration (post 3 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692-Pokemon-Nuzlocke-FireRed-Mafia-Pre-game&p=2053747662&viewfull=1#post2053747662))
Start of Day One (post 4 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692-Pokemon-Nuzlocke-FireRed-Mafia-Pre-game&p=2053747671&viewfull=1#post2053747671))
End of Day One (post 438 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692-Pokemon-Nuzlocke-FireRed-Mafia-In-Play&p=2053748278&viewfull=1#post2053748278))
Seireikhaan fainted (post 439 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692-Pokemon-Nuzlocke-FireRed-Mafia-In-Play&p=2053748279&viewfull=1#post2053748279)) Bulbasaur, 3p survivor
End of Night One (post 442 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692-Pokemon-Nuzlocke-FireRed-Mafia-In-Play&p=2053748358&viewfull=1#post2053748358))
Cuthillius fainted (post 443 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692-Pokemon-Nuzlocke-FireRed-Mafia-In-Play&p=2053748359&viewfull=1#post2053748359)) Oddish, Town 1x poison
End of Day Two (post 728 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692-Pokemon-Nuzlocke-FireRed-Mafia-In-Play&p=2053748726&viewfull=1#post2053748726))
Raith Kemmler fainted (post 729 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692-Pokemon-Nuzlocke-FireRed-Mafia-In-Play&p=2053748727&viewfull=1#post2053748727)) Ekans, Town 1x block
End of Night Two (post 732)
Sooh fainted (post 732 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692-Pokemon-Nuzlocke-FireRed-Mafia-In-Play&p=2053748845&viewfull=1#post2053748845)) Diglett, Town 1x block
Zack replaced in for choxorn. (post 733)
End of Day Three (post 1051 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692-Pokemon-Nuzlocke-FireRed-Mafia-In-Play&p=2053749313&viewfull=1#post2053749313))
Autolycus fainted (post 1052 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692-Pokemon-Nuzlocke-FireRed-Mafia-In-Play&p=2053749314&viewfull=1#post2053749314)) Pidgey, Town Nonconsecutive Self-protect + 1x block, ground immune
End of Night Three (post 1057 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692-Pokemon-Nuzlocke-FireRed-Mafia-In-Play&p=2053749361&viewfull=1#post2053749361))
BSmith fainted (post 1058 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692-Pokemon-Nuzlocke-FireRed-Mafia-In-Play&p=2053749362&viewfull=1#post2053749362)) Meowth, Town

OK!
Logic
Montmorency - Claimed 1-shot roleblocker
GeneralHankerchief
El Barto - Claimed 1-shot poisoner
Champ
Jabbz - Softclaimed vanilla
Manasi
SeveringViper - Claimed 1-host roleblocker
Novice
Csargo
Zack choxorn

Fainted
Seireikhaan - Bulbasaur, 3p survivor - lynched D1
Cuthillius - Oddish, Town 1x poison - killed N1 - Killed by dust. Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. We stick this Oddish in the Earth's crust.
Raith Kemmler - Ekans, Town 1x block - lynched D2
Sooh - Diglett, Town 1x block - killed N2 - Killed by a thrown rock - Sand-attack, y'all. If that doesn't act like a roleblock, I don't know what does.
Autolycus - Pidgey, Town Nonconsecutive Self-protect + 1x block, ground immune - lynched D3 - Pidgey will Fly no more...
Bsmith - Meowth, Town - killed N3 - Killed by a powerful Earthquake.

---

So we have three deceased townies with 1x block abilities, and two living players claiming to have 1x block.

novice

05-31-2017, 10:29

novice

05-31-2017, 11:08

Day 1
6 votes: seireikhaan (Csargo (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053747732#post2053747732), GeneralHankerchief (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748091#post2053748091), novice (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748099#post2053748099), Cuthillius (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748240#post2053748240), Choxorn (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748261#post2053748261), Raith Kemmler (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748268#post2053748268))
4 votes: Montmorency (autolycus (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053747798#post2053747798), BSmith (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748093#post2053748093), Logic (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748128#post2053748128), SeveringViper (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748264#post2053748264))
3 votes: choxorn (Manasi (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748251#post2053748251), seireikhaan (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748259#post2053748259), Jabbz (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748263#post2053748263))
2 votes: GeneralHankerchief (El Barto (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053747721#post2053747721), Sooh (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748143#post2053748143))
1 votes: Manasi (Champ (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748200#post2053748200))
1 votes: Severing Viper (Montmorency (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748037#post2053748037))

Day 2
5 votes: Raith Kemmler (Sooh (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748363#post2053748363), Montmorency (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748626#post2053748626), Logic (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748677#post2053748677), Manasi (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748694#post2053748694), GeneralHankerchief (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748720#post2053748720))
4 votes: choxorn (Csargo (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748417#post2053748417), novice (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748435#post2053748435), El Barto (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748703#post2053748703), SeveringViper (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748709#post2053748709))
1 votes: Montmorency (autolycus (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748370#post2053748370))
1 votes: El Barto (BSmith (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748643#post2053748643))

Day 3
3 votes: Autolycus (Csargo (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053749249#post2053749249), SeveringViper (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053749268#post2053749268), Montmorency (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053749288#post2053749288))
3 votes: Montmorency (Zack (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748984#post2053748984), novice (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053749106#post2053749106), Jabbz (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053749266#post2053749266))
2 votes: Jabbz (El Barto (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053749036#post2053749036), GeneralHankerchief (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053749058#post2053749058))
1 votes: GeneralHankerchief (Logic (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748916#post2053748916))
1 votes: Champ (BSmith (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053748912#post2053748912))
1 votes: Bsmith (autolycus (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053749060#post2053749060))
1 votes: Logic (Champ (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053749131#post2053749131))

Logic

05-31-2017, 16:05

Zack believes that they did: his top team is Monty, Viper, Csargo, all voting auto yesterday.

But then if you are right, and my partners preferred distancing, then Viper and Csargo should not be counted as likely scum for that reason, and the other wagons need to be checked.

And who were on those wagons? Barto and GH on Jabbz, Logic on GH, and Champ on Logic. Auto and BSmith flipped town, so auto on BSmith means nothing, but how about BSmith on Champ?

Was it GH and Barto, my well-bussed fellows, setting up Jabbz as the alternative wagon and me distancing myself from them by choosing auto for the tie? Was it Logic and Champ ending off-wagon, hoping to stay UTR?

How deep does this hole go?
I've never seen the term tinfopiling before this game, but if Monty is village, this has got to be the very definition of tinfoiling.

Cuth is long-dead, and Barto claimed to have used his 1X Poison on Manasi.

All the night kills so far seem to have been standard Mafia kills, except

which appears to be a failed attack of some sort N2.

I think it's clear the Mafia are rock-type Pokemon.
For sake of argument, let's assume you are right in that the mafia are all rock type.

That would have meant that Auto was immune to the nightkill, which I don't think was the case. And if it is so clear that the mafia are all rock-type pokemon, why wasn't that clear to Auto? That also means that the electric attack was a vig attempt, which the rock types would be resistant to. It does not add up, because why give out a vig ability if it can't hurt the mafia?

But that's all I've ever asked for. How can you put some higher than others? Do you assume the healer was town, and so whoever is towniest (to you) is likeliest to have used an antidote by default? Why Jabbz specifically? Hopefully we can hear before the end.Jabbz is not on mentioned concerning the antidote. I clarified this point already: I mentioned my concern of Jabbz, and then stated that I was replying to GH, and he was on my list of likely antidote-givers.

I use "RE:" in it's original coding/computer usage, which is not just "reply" but instead "regarding."

And for me, Monty moves up the "likely scum" ladder.

Montmorency

05-31-2017, 16:35

For sake of argument, let's assume you are right in that the mafia are all rock type.

That would have meant that Auto was immune to the nightkill, which I don't think was the case. And if it is so clear that the mafia are all rock-type pokemon, why wasn't that clear to Auto? That also means that the electric attack was a vig attempt, which the rock types would be resistant to. It does not add up, because why give out a vig ability if it can't hurt the mafia?

The immunity would be a good point, except that it turns out that in Pokemon there are many types of attacks, and rock is a counterpart to ground which is vulnerable to electric attacks and to which a ground immunity would not apply. So ground, rock, normal (?), we're looking at that sort of subset of Pokemon.

Jabbz is not on mentioned concerning the antidote. I clarified this point already: I mentioned my concern of Jabbz, and then stated that I was replying to GH, and he was on my list of likely antidote-givers.

This was totally unclear before now; it needed clarification. Thanks.

Also, GH for antidote? Whaaaaaa

But why?

Csargo

05-31-2017, 17:06

Night actions:
N1: Unclaimed: Someone killed Cuthilius
N1: Claimed: Monty blocked GH
N1: Claimed: El Barto poisoned Manasi
N2: Unclaimed: Someone healed Manasi?
N2: Unclaimed: Someone used Thunderbolt (ineffective)
N2: Unclaimed: Someone killed Sooh
N3: Unclaimed: Someone killed BSmith
N3: Claimed: SV blocked Monty

I took the thunderbolt to signify Zack replacing Choxorn, no?

lol at Zack for obvious reasons.

Still think the reasoning behind voting auto was good. I didn't think town would back off scumreads, see Zack/Monty, because it garnered some suspicion, which is why I voted auto.

SV is reacting far more strongly today than D1, but that's to be expected considering the circumstances, still looks bad though. His vote on Zack is not sheeping me, and it's bad imo.

Need to reread thread.

Montmorency

05-31-2017, 17:17

I took the thunderbolt to signify Zack replacing Choxorn, no?

'Someone used Thunderbolt, it's not very effective' sounds more like one Pokemon doing something to another, not mod action.

Zack

05-31-2017, 17:19

I've just been staring at 1198 trying to think of a way to respond that doesn't mock or deride and i don't think I'm capable of such a Herculean task.

Csargo

05-31-2017, 17:23

'Someone used Thunderbolt, it's not very effective' sounds more like one Pokemon doing something to another, not mod action.

Ah, didn't notice wording...

Zack

05-31-2017, 17:24

Vote: SeveringViper

If anyone wants me, I'll be in my batcave evilly plotting the easy mislynches of two of the highest posters in the game, twirling my mustache in a manner so sinister norelco will send assassins after me.

Logic

05-31-2017, 17:51

The immunity would be a good point, except that it turns out that in Pokemon there are many types of attacks, and rock is a counterpart to ground which is vulnerable to electric attacks and to which a ground immunity would not apply. So ground, rock, normal (?), we're looking at that sort of subset of Pokemon.

This was totally unclear before now; it needed clarification. Thanks.

Also, GH for antidote? Whaaaaaa

But why?
I misread something.
Misunderstandings on my part:

Ground=/=Rock: somehow I equated the two.
Auto was immune to ground, not rock. The "Mafia are all rock-type" is not disproved by this.
Auto did not know he was immune to anything (hidden trait): I forgot this when I was typing up my counterpoint to Monty. Again, the "Mafia are all rock-type" is not disproved by this.

Still, I think an electric attack is almost exclusive to an electric type pokemon. So, it's possible the rock attack that killed BSmith was the vig attack, and the thunderbolt was the mafia-strike that hit an immune player. Based on that, I have concluded that either the Mafia-mon are not all rock type, or Pizza gave out a vig that is unable to actually do anything. I find the latter to be extremely unlikely.

GH made the list of antidote donators because he was talking about the poisoning at length. If El Barto had not claimed to have poisoned Manasi, I might have thought Manasi was faking the poisoning to get town sympathy. But with El Barto's claim, that theory only works if BOTH Manasi and El Barto are scum. El Barto is another plausible antidoter candidate, depending on how he took Manasi's reaction to being poisoned. Others on my mysterious benefactor list are going to be kept close to my chest for the moment.

OK, after rereading my "RE: Jabbz" post at #1130 (unsure of how the coding for tags work here, so please forgive me for not providing the hotlink) I see now how it is unclear.

I took the thunderbolt to signify Zack replacing Choxorn, no?

lol at Zack for obvious reasons.

Still think the reasoning behind voting auto was good. I didn't think town would back off scumreads, see Zack/Monty, because it garnered some suspicion, which is why I voted auto.

SV is reacting far more strongly today than D1, but that's to be expected considering the circumstances, still looks bad though. His vote on Zack is not sheeping me, and it's bad imo.

Need to reread thread.
I saw them as independent events.
"Elsewhere, a pokemon uses thunderbolt!
...
...it wasn't very effective."
Such a statement does not sound like one Pokemon subbing in for another. It is an attack, and should be treated as such.

Montmorency

05-31-2017, 18:04

Still, I think an electric attack is almost exclusive to an electric type pokemon. So, it's possible the rock attack that killed BSmith was the vig attack, and the thunderbolt was the mafia-strike that hit an immune player. Based on that, I have concluded that either the Mafia-mon are not all rock type, or Pizza gave out a vig that is unable to actually do anything. I find the latter to be extremely unlikely.

Out of interest, I'm going to make a list of all flipped players and their Pokemon weaknesses, resistances, and immunities.

GH made the list of antidote donators because he was talking about the poisoning at length. If El Barto had not claimed to have poisoned Manasi, I might have thought Manasi was faking the poisoning to get town sympathy. But with El Barto's claim, that theory only works if BOTH Manasi and El Barto are scum. El Barto is another plausible antidoter candidate, depending on how he took Manasi's reaction to being poisoned. Others on my mysterious benefactor list are going to be kept close to my chest for the moment.

Not strong evidence. I will note that Manasi scum/Barto town is theoretically possible, where Manasi did it (as you suggest) for town sympathy and her team actually had an antidote all along and were not under any threat; so it could also count as fishing for a claim, to target the claimer in the future. I think Sooh dying over Barto on N2 makes this less likely.

Where we get into implausible territory is Barto being some kind of Mafia pokemon that used a move (Psychic-type?) to fool Manasi into thinking she was poisoned when she really wasn't - no antidote needed there.

Montmorency

05-31-2017, 18:21

Dead players' Pokemon type data. The information is all correct for Gen 7, not sure how that might affect application to this game.

D1/Khaan
Bulbasaur (Grass/Poison):
Weak FLYING, FIRE, ICE, PSYCHIC;
Resist FIGHTING, WATER, GRASS, ELECTRIC, FAIRY;
Immune NONE
N1/Cuth
Oddish (Grass/Poison):
Weak FLYING, FIRE, ICE, PSYCHIC;
Resist FIGHTING, WATER, GRASS, ELECTRIC, FAIRY;
Immune NONE
D2/Raith
Ekans (Poison):
Weak GROUND, PSYCHIC;
Resist FIGHTING, POISON, BUG, GRASS, FAIRY;
Immune NONE
N2/Sooh
Diglett (Ground):
Weak WATER, GRASS, ICE;
Resist POISON, ROCK;
Immune ELECTRIC
D3/Auto
Pidgey (Normal/Flying):
Weak ROCK, ELECTRIC, ICE;
Resist BUG, GRASS;
Immune GROUND, GHOST
N3/BSmith
Meowth (Normal):
Weak FIGHTING;
Resist NONE;
Immune GHOST

Comment: So both Khaan and Cuth were Grass/Poison Pokemon, AND Raith was Poison type. Makes it even weirder that there should be yet another Poison type, and with another instance of delayed vig "Poison" to boot.

novice

05-31-2017, 19:34

Tally as of post 1213:

Lynch votes
2 votes: El Barto (Jabbz (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053749541#post2053749541), novice (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053749550#post2053749550))
1 votes: Champ (Logic)
1 votes: Logic (Champ (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053749382#post2053749382))
1 votes: Jabbz (El Barto (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053749384#post2053749384))
1 votes: SeveringViper (Zack (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053749569#post2053749569))
1 votes: Zack (SeveringViper (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053749506#post2053749506))

Voting history:
Logic

Jabbz

SeveringViper

Zack

El Barto

El Barto

SeveringViper

Montmorency

05-31-2017, 19:47

El Barto good lynch, then Champ. Champ and Logic voting each other. Zack and Viper voting each other, seems like a dead end.

Jabbz lynch not happening.

I will be voting El Barto in ~1 hour barring intervention.

Logic

05-31-2017, 20:09

Tally as of post 1213:

Lynch votes
2 votes: El Barto (Jabbz (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053749541#post2053749541), novice (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053749550#post2053749550))
1 votes: Champ (Logic)
1 votes: Logic (Champ (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053749382#post2053749382))
1 votes: Jabbz (El Barto (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053749384#post2053749384))
1 votes: SeveringViper (Zack (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053749569#post2053749569))
1 votes: Zack (SeveringViper (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053749506#post2053749506))

Voting history:

There are actually 2 votes for SeveringViper, according to your spoilered voting history. Your vote counter is now betraying you, as it isn't counting your vote.

novice

05-31-2017, 20:31

There are actually 2 votes for SeveringViper, according to your spoilered voting history. Your vote counter is now betraying you, as it isn't counting your vote.

I moved my vote from SV to El Barto.

novice

05-31-2017, 20:33

Montmorency

05-31-2017, 20:39

No GH vote?

Is that a commitment?

novice

05-31-2017, 20:50

Is that a commitment?

Not really. Just wondering if he's still your first pick.

I'm still waiting for this:

Hey guys, I'm back to full access. Pretty tired from traveling so don't expect much of me tonight but I'll fully launch into things tomorrow.

Montmorency

05-31-2017, 20:55

Not really. Just wondering if he's still your first pick.

I have to play it cool, until he's ready to let his guard down, let me earn his trust.

Then, when he least expects it, I am still alive at LYLO and I lynch him in a tiebreaker. It will be very poetic.

Vote: El Barto

P.S. Don't forget what I discovered the other day about Jabbz and Champ not being partnered with Choxorn/Zack, if things go badly for us.

Askthepizzaguy

05-31-2017, 20:55

The round ends in roughly 2 hours. Please remember not to post after the deadline.

:00 okay, :01 not valid vote, :02 you shouldn't be posting as you've had 60 seconds of leeway in case your pony is slow.

Manasi

05-31-2017, 21:00

Hi.

Catching up.

AMA

Zack

05-31-2017, 21:12

Not really. Just wondering if he's still your first pick.

I'm still waiting for this:
Yeah GH needs to step up.

Zack

05-31-2017, 21:13

It bugs me that GH made a point of calling out Jabbz for reading but not posting, when despite GH's own sparse posting the Gameroom almost always says "users viewing this forum: GeneralHankerchief"

novice

05-31-2017, 21:15

AMA

What is your best guess for the scum team?

novice

05-31-2017, 21:17

Logic

05-31-2017, 21:34

I moved my vote from SV to El Barto.

I sure missed that.

Everyone that has a vote cast against them is voting for someone that cast such a vote. Right now, this looks like the battle of the OMGUSs.

I believe my vote on Champ is going nowhere today, so let's see about aVote: SeveringViper instead.

Csargo

05-31-2017, 21:41

I'd vote SV, but formatting on phone is impossible.

Jabbz

05-31-2017, 21:42

It bugs me that GH made a point of calling out Jabbz for reading but not posting, when despite GH's own sparse posting the Gameroom almost always says "users viewing this forum: GeneralHankerchief"

I was thinking along those lines as well, but on my other forum we have a rule against making cases on that type of stuff. I assume that isn't the case here. It irritated me even more because I gave him a crapload of slack due to his being gone, even defended him, and he turned around and threw that at me. I'm still not sure if it's scummy or not, but it is definitely irritating.

Jabbz

05-31-2017, 21:43

I'd vote SV, but formatting on phone is impossible.

If you want an official vote just say that and one of us can point it out to ATPG.

Csargo

05-31-2017, 21:45

Vote: SeveringViper

Okay success!

Montmorency

05-31-2017, 21:46

Avert Viper lynch. What is this, deja vu?

novice

05-31-2017, 21:55

Tally as of post 1233:

Lynch votes
3 votes: SeveringViper (Zack (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053749569#post2053749569), Logic (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053749593#post2053749593), Csargo (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053749597#post2053749597))
3 votes: El Barto (Jabbz (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053749541#post2053749541), novice (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053749550#post2053749550), Montmorency (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053749586#post2053749586))
1 votes: Logic (Champ (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053749382#post2053749382))
1 votes: Jabbz (El Barto (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053749384#post2053749384))
1 votes: Zack (SeveringViper (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692&p=2053749506#post2053749506))

Voting history:
Logic

Jabbz

SeveringViper

Zack

El Barto

El Barto

SeveringViper

El Barto

SeveringViper

SeveringViper

Manasi

05-31-2017, 21:58

What is your best guess for the scum team?

Not 100% sure.

Really not liking how Monty is interacting ITT but it oculd be a personal thing against his tone, same reason I didn't like barto but different tone.

I'd say aorn Monty/Barto etc

I kinda see the case on SV but i haven't read it nearly closely enough to know

Manasi

05-31-2017, 21:59

literally everyone in my village circle is voting SV lol

temptation to just sheep is high

GeneralHankerchief

05-31-2017, 22:00

So as it turns out, I have to do RL catchup work too after I've been away for a while.

Will try to hammer out a reads list and see where we're at before deadline. We'll see if I can't do that and also realtime with anyone around.

Montmorency

05-31-2017, 22:01

Not 100% sure.

Really not liking how Monty is interacting ITT but it oculd be a personal thing against his tone, same reason I didn't like barto but different tone.

I'd say aorn Monty/Barto etc

I kinda see the case on SV but i haven't read it nearly closely enough to know

Pls clear help vote barto

Champ

05-31-2017, 22:01

oh this is a thing
why is no one voting logic

Champ

05-31-2017, 22:04

literally everyone in my village circle is voting SV lol

temptation to just sheep is high

how do you have logic as villager

novice

05-31-2017, 22:07

oh this is a thing
why is no one voting logic

Because Jabbz thinks he's Vanilla town.

Jabbz

05-31-2017, 22:09

how do you have logic as villager

Because your "reason" for voting logic is bad. I'd say it's poorly explained, but I don't even think it qualifies as that. You dislike a vote he places so that "locks wolf." No one else is going after votes in a manner quite so haphazardly.

Jabbz

05-31-2017, 22:09

Because Jabbz thinks he's Vanilla town.

Heavens help us all if you guys are taking your cues from me.

SeveringViper

05-31-2017, 22:30

You're going to have to wait for tomorrow to mislynch me over being "sensitive" and "mindlessly abrasive", I'm afraid.
Vote: El Barto

At least try to make it entertaining when you come at me again, please~

GeneralHankerchief

05-31-2017, 22:36

novice
Manasi

Zack
El Barto

Csargo
Logic
Champ
Montmorency

SeveringViper

Jabbz

novice is my top town read. There was some hesitancy on part re: him early on in D1, but that has completely evaporated. He's been active, prodding, and generally consistent, plus it certainly appears like he's trying to solve. Checks off all my boxes.

Manasi is the only other player who I have no hesitation about her towniness. While I haven't played/interacted with her as much as Zack and probably Champ, I have done so to a reasonable extent and her tone is very strong and unforced, and there's no agenda behind it that I can detect.

There's two reasons why Zack isn't in my top tier: the respect I have for his scumgame and the performance of Choxorn before Zack subbed in. Zack's picked fights with people in the thread, but it's also what he does and they seem to be coming from a natural place. He's got a healthy level of suspicion towards people that right now I think I'd label more as "townie paranoia" than "mafioso throwing shade".

I'm doing a turnaround on El Barto and calling him "probably town". There's always the paranoia that he's playing us, but I'm looking at his posts and beyond the RP and comments and everything there's more focus here rather than him just meandering around and commenting on stuff. He's got drive here, and even though I suspected him earlier for the softing of poisoning Manasi I still have a hard time seeing that progression coming from mafia. A note that Barto is a busser, and Viper flipping red won't clear him for me. If anything it might make me a bit more suspicious, really.

Csargo is dropping for me, we had a mindmeld or two earlier on but having ISO'd his posts during the period where I was gone they're pretty underwhelming. The auto case was weak and a misfire, but I'm not holding it against him too much. Tone could go either way, he hasn't hit the "Csargo town" or "Csargo scum" notes yet. The one thing I'd keep an eye on here is if Viper's the lynch. Since Csargo pushed that case here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692-Pokemon-Nuzlocke-FireRed-Mafia-In-Play&p=2053749258#post2053749258) fairly early on and then didn't take any exit ramps (the phone thing, voting him much later in the round), if Viper flips red I'll be very close to clearing him. If Viper flips green though, I'm taking a hard look at Strawberry next round.

Logic I don't really have an impression of. Since I see Champ is pushing him right now, looking at Logic will be my first priority if I have time after doing this list/explanations.

Champ's lack of activity could go either way in my experience. Don't think he'll bus here so if Logic is somehow the lynch anytime soon I think we can put Champ in the town pile. Lazy lynch choice today IMO.

Monty has tunneled all game, and at least in one case incorrectly so. I've read his posts during the period when I was absent but haven't done a specific reread on him due to lack of time (and it's not gonna happen today while I'm under the gun), but as exasperating as he's been and as bad as his arguments are (which is why he's so far down this list) my gut's telling me it's "incorrect Monty" instead of "malicious Monty". Incidentally, I think his recent posts where he's trying to take command and swing the lynch towards Barto are the best he's looked all game.

SeveringViper looked great on D1 but yeah, he's dropped off since as many people have mentioned. Pot, kettle, etc, but it's still there. In my experience, especially when there's been a chain of mislynches with no correct hits like we've had here to this point, it does become harder for mafia to post because the worlds they've so expertly crafted are less able to hold up with each successive mislynch. A point in Viper's favor was the counterclaim of Monty, which seemed like a town reaction, but the other column is getting more entries added to it, and I hated his snap vote of Zack. To me it felt like scum-frustration bubbling over.

Jabbz is still my top pick for scum. Aside from what I've already touched on with him, I don't like the fact that he took pains to point out the fact that his reasoning was consistent here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152692-Pokemon-Nuzlocke-FireRed-Mafia-In-Play&p=2053749316&viewfull=1#post2053749316). This is a very, very mafia-leaning thing to do. Mafia need to make sure that their reasoning is consistent because they know all of the cases they're formulating on people are fake, so that's their fallback plan. Consistent reasoning is far from a townie's mind. There's no reason for townies to be self-conscious about that sort of thing, all they're trying to do is lynch scum.