Rampage Out of Space

[Dolby]

honestly I'm tempted to not post and just hope for a kill crossover. I think tonight SK at least has to try to kill maf and maf probably has to try to kill SK

[Winston Hughes]

Someone went deep.

[hollowkatt]

someones burned me hard

1 2 3 not it

[Laurentus]

Obvious PoE: Csargo, Dolby, Borg, Winston

World-done-gone-lost-it's-damned-mind PoE: Zelda, Hollow.

[Winston Hughes]

This is an excellent game.

No idea what the fuck's going on.

Probably going to lose.

Hugely enjoyable.

[hollowkatt]

honestly I'm tempted to not post and just hope for a kill crossover. I think tonight SK at least has to try to kill maf and maf probably has to try to kill SK

did town just lose?
like if Sk/wolves kill different townies it's 3-2-1
we chop a wolf tomorrow and it's 3-1-1 but if they don't cross kill it's 1-1-1... fuuuck I can't figure this out

[Dolby]

Vroe how confident are you in Laurentus town?

I still think he's town but want the take of someone who knows him better

[Dolby]

did town just lose?
like if Sk/wolves kill different townies it's 3-2-1
we chop a wolf tomorrow and it's 3-1-1 but if they don't cross kill it's 1-1-1... fuuuck I can't figure this out

yesish

[Laurentus]

Vroe how confident are you in Laurentus town?

I still think he's town but want the take of someone who knows him better

In your honest opinion, since you subbed in for me, am I capable of playing a scum game like this?

[Laurentus]

Legacy: Please chop Dolby, he knows full well I'm never scum here.

[Dolby]

In your honest opinion, since you subbed in for me, am I capable of playing a scum game like this?

I barely read your posts that game

honestly I remember your champs qual with Tims that you replaced out of and to be quite frank I think you would've bussed your teammate by now lol

(granted said teammate didn't do themselves any favors)

[Dolby]

Legacy: Please chop Dolby, he knows full well I'm never scum here.

i wish

[Laurentus]

I barely read your posts that game

honestly I remember your champs qual with Tims that you replaced out of and to be quite frank I think you would've bussed your teammate by now lol

(granted said teammate didn't do themselves any favors)

Eh, not quite true at the present moment. Back then, sure. But Tim showed me a better way than bussing. Honestly, after losing Tim N1, with the numbers being what they are, I never bus here. So that part at least doesn't really work against a Lau!Wolf world.

[Laurentus]

Also, in case any Wolves get fancy ideas here about how I'm actually the SK: remember that I wasn't here N1, so I literally couldn't have made that kill on Tim.

[Winston Hughes]

i am also very not the sk, scumfriends

[Montmorency]

Day Four
https://i.imgur.com/lcGgc4H.png
If Bionics were as oases among humans, then this one in particular - Supralatus of the Eximium, "one who is carried beyond" - drew breath more precious than that of hundreds. Surveying the devastated research complex, he lamented the spoilage of so many wondrous and intricate designs. Some of them he had personally nurtured, and burgeoned from. All the ignorant unmods had opportunity to review was a wasteland, yet it was better than the alternative.

Once the Marines had confirmed that the laboratories were substantially trashed (there were too few left to meticulously inspect the detritus in a day), Major Montmorency called camp around the antechamber.

The Bionic food stocks from the cafeteria were largely inadequate for normal consumption, so the men were marching hungry by now. Perhaps it had been an oversight, though an understandable one, not to equip the strike envelope with much food for a teleportation fight.


—————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————

After rounds of vehement mutual accusations, the Major walked up to Lieutenant Ibn-Khaldun, the Tunisian commando, and shot him in the back of the head while he wasn't looking because no one really liked the guy.

Some of the men were so angry at the loss of their opportunity to frag Khaldun that they shot at the body themselves, stripped it of armor, paraded it around the premises while chanting like hooligans, and unceremoniously tossed the mutilated cadaver onto an unspeakably-filthy pile of enemy bio-flotsam.

The few Marines who held reservations wondered to themselves, after the summary executions of two Muslim Arabs within as many days, whether UMEN might have a problem with systemic racism after all.



Ibn-Khaldun was a

UMENSES Operator!


https://i.imgur.com/ZwQI1Xz.jpg

UMENSES Operator

You are a Marine, or maybe a whole fireteam of Marines, with at least 5 years of exemplary combat service.
Every one of you steely-eyed veterans has been blooded against the Bionics before.
The present battle engaged and after days of hard fighting both sides have nearly been wiped out.
Now, with the remnants of the Bionic command group cornered, you have your chance to fulfill your mission and return a hero.


You are Vanilla Town. You win when all threats to your mission are eliminated. Vote in the thread every day to liquidate potential threats.

There is a hard 125-post cap Days 1-3. Vote-only posts do not count toward the cap during EOD only. Twilight is always uncapped.



Final Tally

:skull: IK (5): Vroendal, Laurentus, Zelda, Dolby, Hollow
Vroendal (3): Csargo, Borg, Winston
Dolby (1): IK


Movement

[Zelda] Csargo >> Dolby >> Vroendal >> IK
[Hollow] Dolby >> Csargo >> Winston >> Vroendal >> Winston >> Dolby >> IK
[Laur] Vroendal >> IK
[Winston] IK >> Visor >> Vroendal



Living Players (8)

hollowkatt (hollow/HK)
Dolby (Dolbster/Dolb)
Winston Hughes (Winston/WH/McGinty)
BorgPicard (Borg/Picard/LA/Argon)
Csargo (Csar)
Laurentus (Laur)
Vroendal (Vro)
pzelda (Zelda/Capage/Cap)

Dead Players (9)

Raskolnikov (D1)
c4e5g3d5 (N1)
Timsup2nothin (N1)
El-ahrairah (D2)
Garden Gnome (D3)
Lewwyn (N3)
CutePanda (N3)
NANOOK (N3)
Ibn-Khaldun (D4)

[Montmorency]

You still have <20 minutes, btw.

[Winston Hughes]

You still have <20 minutes, btw.

~:handball:

[Laurentus]

Well, let's hear it. Who are the teams here?

[hollowkatt]

Well, let's hear it. Who are the teams here?

absolutely no idea
I think you're town, vro also. Basically vro is wolf if and only if you are also a wolf so SK kill one of these two tonight I guess?

Dolby could be anything, winston I'm gth wolf reading. Borg/pzelda/csargo has to contain one non-town, it just has to

[hollowkatt]

anyways, kill me wolves plx (or sk is fine too)

[Montmorency]

NIGHT FOUR BEGINS

Send in orders if you have them.

There is no more postcap.

Phase ends
SOD 5

[Montmorency]

Night Four
-

https://i.imgur.com/wR47lmp.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/GSS4bro.jpg

As pzelda sleuthed around the bivouac - something the Major had warned him against of late, no longer being able to guarantee his safety - he reflected on the arc of his career. He was turning 40 today, retiring him from conscription eligibility. How sour that his card had been called in for this special operation just a month before. He'd taken down plenty of bionics on the mean streets of the megacities before with his hard-boiled tactics, but this shit was way beyond his pay grade. The whole time, among these armored warrior and their insane version of military justice, he had felt out of place, superfluous. Now that Lewwyn was dead, the mad lad, it felt like all prospect of teamwork had faded. He could only hope that tonight he would make a difference.

His reverie was interrupted by the presence of two hulking figures parked right before him. Zelda didn't need his skills or tech to see that these were primetime Bionics.

So this was it for him. Too late for help or safety.

Your reputation is distasteful to us, creep, one of them intoned.

Zelda straightened his back in resolve of his fate.

I've seen things you borgs wouldn't believe. Vagrant mech-addicts set on fire off the shoulder of the I-99. I watched gamma beams glitter in the dark near the Neo-New York Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.

Suddenly, pzelda seized with apprehension, looking closely at the mocking fragments the Bionics still wore.

No, it's not, it can't! -

Time to die.

The Bionics didn't even twitch as pzelda crumbled to the floor in sizzling pieces.


—————————————————————————————————⠀”——————————————————————————

Major Montmorency knew this was it. The final confrontation was at hand, amid near-total disaster for UMENSES. Final destination: the station command center - if they could even make it before being picked off.

If any recovery were possible, the decisive confrontation would take place there.

But first...

The men who had assembled to depart the antechamber awaited their commander's address.

Marines, as you know, our support team has been eliminated. pzelda got frazzled last night, under our noses, the damnfool. He was supposed to be under escort!

Despite that failure, the situation may not be unsalvagable. The Major held up the spook's tablet.

His last work was found on this device, among his effects. The unlocked Welcome Screen had a notification from his Investigation app! It said:


Scan: https://i.imgur.com/npTutJt.png
Result: CSARGO UMENSES


pzelda has died! He was a

Detective!


https://i.imgur.com/5wXAXf8.jpg

Detective

Your cybernoir career has been built on providing the very best record in tracking and exposing illicit Bionic presence in our cities.
The Unified Marines knew of your reputation and have invoked your Citizen's Conscription Service clause only a month before your retirement from eligibility.
Use your skills as part of the UMENSES signals/intel detachment - or what's left of it - to support the strike element in eradicating the Bionics.


You are a parity scanner (Town). You win when all threats to your mission are eliminated. Vote in the thread every day to liquidate potential threats.

Investigate: Select someone to visit at night to discover whether their alignment is pro or anti-UMENSES. Your technology is limited in its capacity to detect such advanced taggants; your first scan will have results delayed by a round, and every third scan will also be delayed (i.e. N1 results come D3 instead of D2, and expect N3 and N6 scans to be delayed).

Overmatched (passive): You must also partner with another player to achieve your full potential. Do this by getting into private contact with any player - the host must always be CCed - and having them submit matching orders on the target. Once you begin partnering on scans, you must continue to partner with the same player for as long as they are alive (no shopping around). You may always choose to go it alone on any given night, but your results will be as little as half as reliable. The same penalty applies if your partner does not properly submit matching orders.
Networked (passive): You start with a private commlink with Lewwyn (you are Neighbors). [REDACTED]
Stand Down (passive): When all bionics have been eliminated your abilities are retired. Any result you were about to receive at the time will be cancelled.
Dead Man's Hand (passive): Despite the technical limitations of your gear, there is a special fiducial that for some reason can only be registered in moments of extreme peril. If you die, the host will announce your earliest pending result publicly the following day-phase (i.e. dying D2/N2 releases your N1 investigation D3). If you die without any queued results pending, your last reported result will be announced. If your last target under these circumstances is also dead, the Dead Man's Hand will simply fail (such as in the case when you die N4 but your N3 and N4 targets have also died by SOD5). Dead Man's Hand is subject to the effects of Stand Down.


There is a hard 125-post cap Days 1-3. Vote-only posts do not count toward the cap during EOD only. Twilight is always uncapped.





DAY FIVE BEGINS

https://i.imgur.com/jH3X3AA.gif

There is no more postcap!

Phase ends
EOD 5


Living Players (7)

hollowkatt (hollow/HK)
Dolby (Dolbster/Dolb)
Winston Hughes (Winston/WH/McGinty)
BorgPicard (Borg/Picard/LA/Argon)
Csargo (Csar)
Laurentus (Laur)
Vroendal (Vro)

Dead Players (10)

Raskolnikov (D1)
c4e5g3d5 (N1)
Timsup2nothin (N1)
El-ahrairah (D2)
Garden Gnome (D3)
Lewwyn (N3)
CutePanda (N3)
NANOOK (N3)
Ibn-Khaldun (D4)
pzelda (N4)

[Montmorency]

IT IS LYLO FOR TOWN

If you do not oust scum today you will lose!

[Laurentus]

hk hes coppeaked

Okay, first off, Zelda had me in his PM the same way he did Lewwyn, and I'm very glad our scan was still successful.

To simplify this world, I believe Vro is Town, don't really have much reason to distrust Zelda's earlier scan of Winston, and have Csar as a confirmed Townie, so the PoE is as follows:

Borg
Dolby
Hollowkatt

One of these is the serial killer, and the other two have to be scum. There is room here to doubt the Vro and Winston slots, but that's just not something we can really afford anymore.

Now we need to sort out which slot is which here.

I'm leaning towards Dolby and Borg as scum, and Hollowkatt as SK.

[Laurentus]

Would anyone like to claim serial killer and declare a truce with Town?

[Dolby]

was hoping that me!town would flip tbh

[Dolby]

Would anyone like to claim serial killer and declare a truce with Town?

not me

[Dolby]

HK
Laurentus
Vroe
LA

I think that HK is just always SK, though I gotta question if HK is something like started third party lost wolf who got recruited given the language of the LYLO alert

Two of the last three got it up on me bad

[hollowkatt]

Would anyone like to claim serial killer and declare a truce with Town?

nope

[Laurentus]

Should go without saying, but keep your guns holstered please. I don't remember if we have votes locked and whether there's hammer at maj, but let's proceed under the assumption that there is, yeah?

[Dolby]

Only one kill on pzelda is probs bad. Indicates SK got blocked (ok) or SK is actively not townsiding.

Just remembered that there's no conversion so SK being recruited would be super weird

[Montmorency]

HOST NOTICE


Should go without saying, but keep your guns holstered please. I don't remember if we have votes locked and whether there's hammer at maj, but let's proceed under the assumption that there is, yeah?

From OP: "Standard plurality ouster (no hammer)."

[Laurentus]

Only one kill on pzelda is probs bad. Indicates SK got blocked (ok) or SK is actively not townsiding.

Just remembered that there's no conversion so SK being recruited would be super weird

Dolby, if you're Town, you're going to have to convince me where I've got it wrong with Winston and Vro.

[hollowkatt]

Okay, first off, Zelda had me in his PM the same way he did Lewwyn, and I'm very glad our scan was still successful.

To simplify this world, I believe Vro is Town, don't really have much reason to distrust Zelda's earlier scan of Winston, and have Csar as a confirmed Townie, so the PoE is as follows:

Borg
Dolby
Hollowkatt

One of these is the serial killer, and the other two have to be scum. There is room here to doubt the Vro and Winston slots, but that's just not something we can really afford anymore.

Now we need to sort out which slot is which here.

I'm leaning towards Dolby and Borg as scum, and Hollowkatt as SK.

Is there any way that you can verify the bold above?

[Laurentus]

No, way decided to keep it secret from the thread because of the Lewwyn kill. The fact that he listed me as solid Town is the only clue he left.

[Dolby]

If no one else counterclaims it it's confirmed

since no way he was with IK

[Dolby]

Dolby, if you're Town, you're going to have to convince me where I've got it wrong with Winston and Vro.

I'm not considering Winston

Vroe possible at this gamestate but he's been towny individually ugh

[Laurentus]

Also, one thing to note here, is that it wouldn't have been Indicative of my alignment if we had revealed this info, either, because even Zelda straight up told me that he didn't know my alignment, but decided to trust me simply because I looked Townier to him than everyone else he could choose from. There's nothing that would have prevented him from trusting a Wolf. I'm just going to have to let my words and actions speak for themselves here.

[Winston Hughes]

Also, one thing to note here, is that it wouldn't have been Indicative of my alignment if we had revealed this info, either, because even Zelda straight up told me that he didn't know my alignment, but decided to trust me simply because I looked Townier to him than everyone else he could choose from. There's nothing that would have prevented him from trusting a Wolf. I'm just going to have to let my words and actions speak for themselves here.

At this point, if you're scum it's probably just good game and good night.

Unless someone can offer an incredibly plausible case to the contrary, I see no alternative to trusting you and accepting your read on Vroe.

I should mention now that I've got an early start on Tuesday, and really ought to get to bed at least an hour before eod, so let's not leave it too late in the day to reach our consensus.

[BorgPicard]

Laurentus is not mafia

[BorgPicard]

I cannot be convinced otherwise.

[BorgPicard]

Mainly because I believe Monty more than any of you.

[BorgPicard]

With Csargo mechanically proven as well that leaves me with scum reads in this order
Vro
Winston
Dolby
HK

And Sk reads
HK
Dolby
Winston

With the lack of SK kills, I am assuming rb or maybe a holster. If it was rb, I am assuming by mafia and that means mafia knows who it is. If it is holster then they don't, and are probably going to be trying to kill them, because if flavor holds out, sk wins in a 1v1v1. If it was a sk holster, thanks it has allowed for mech clears of two townies.
What that leaves is that we need to kill a mafia, and we definitely don't want to hit sk as that screws us. Even if we hit a town today, if the sk hits a mafia tonight we can still pull through. And possibly win it. With that in mind I cannot be convinced to vote for HK or Dolby, my top two SK picks. The only choice I have left is between Winston and Vro. Given Laurentus being proven to me, I will most likely be sheeping them onto Vro.

[hollowkatt]

With Csargo mechanically proven as well that leaves me with scum reads in this order
Vro
Winston
Dolby
HK

And Sk reads
HK
Dolby
Winston

With the lack of SK kills, I am assuming rb or maybe a holster. If it was rb, I am assuming by mafia and that means mafia knows who it is. If it is holster then they don't, and are probably going to be trying to kill them, because if flavor holds out, sk wins in a 1v1v1. If it was a sk holster, thanks it has allowed for mech clears of two townies.
What that leaves is that we need to kill a mafia, and we definitely don't want to hit sk as that screws us. Even if we hit a town today, if the sk hits a mafia tonight we can still pull through. And possibly win it. With that in mind I cannot be convinced to vote for HK or Dolby, my top two SK picks. The only choice I have left is between Winston and Vro. Given Laurentus being proven to me, I will most likely be sheeping them onto Vro.

What do you think of Laurentus hard clearing Vroe based on Vroe derping yesterday?
If that clear is accurate your poe is me, winston, dolby.

[Montmorency]

HOST NOTICE

Writeup images have been fixed.

EDIT: Damn it, I'm dumb and racist. Fixed again.

[hollowkatt]

ok, actual clears:
csargo via pzelda/monty

semi-clears:
vro via laurentus conversation yesterday derping on pzelda ability
laurentus claims pzelda cleared him


Leaves us with the following:
hk
dolby
winston
borg

I know I'm town, so that leaves, if I believe all the clears, dolby/winston/borg to contain the SK and both wolves.
Of the two semi-clears I think the least cleared is laurentus. Wolf?Laurentus could still clear via derp town vro b/c town vro isn't going to push on wolf?laurentus b/c of the clear yeah?

Likewise that conversation could have been theater to try to get both of them cleared, but that's a tinfoil world that I'm not sure is worth digging into.

At one point Winston was claiming to have been cop checked. I'm going to go looking for that today.
I think, in all worlds, dolby has to go today.

[hollowkatt]

don't everyone respond at once.

I'd like some input as to why the clears aren't cleared, or why the POE I have is wrong, or who else needs to be examined closely

[Vroendal]

I’m sorry, Ibn. Alright, I see. My current PoE -

Csargo being mech-cleared has saved us lots of hardship, that's fantastic. Laurentus is as close to being fully cleared as I can put him, his behavior and his derp-supported absence D/N1 (which I wouldn’t consider him faking) when there were kills both from the wolves and from the SK puts him in a very good position from my perspective. If I can trust any credibility I have as someone who's played with him and observed him many times, he's town.

As for Winston, unfortunately, this is a thing:


Rereading d1 I have come to a shocking conclusion. N1, I targeted Winston alone and therefore the result isn't 100% reliable
...
So Winston isn't technically completely cleared. (Please read the original quote and following pzelda quotes on the next page for full context) Apparently I haven't been understanding pzelda's ability correctly, and availed myself of checking out what had actually been claimed. I still can't shake my suspicions of Winston from D1, but "as little as half as reliable" as stated from pzelda's role-flip implies 50% as the minimum chance to get a correct answer, so I suppose Winston is still more likely town than not. Many have been town-reading him for reasons that as of yet remain unclear to me, but on the basis of meta alone I can admit that grounding from players experienced with him point in his favor. I seem to be the only one who's wanted to push him for any good reason and I know I'm wrong a lot. In conclusion: I don't want him as a wagon at all today, but check out the interaction data from the flip just in case for sure.

Granting that most suggestions and evidence that has been brought up regarding who the SK might be has pointed almost exclusively to HK, I feel relatively confident based on that and PoE putting him as the likeliest one to be the SK.

This means that as a result of PoE, I am led to the conclusion that the wolves are most likely to be Dolby and BP. I'm rather shocked, from my perspective Dolby has had an incredible tone and what I felt to be overall great content, and I now have greater respect for his abilities. It leaves a slightly bitter taste in my mouth, but I guess there's always someone who's gonna fool you badly. Dolby and BP makes the greatest sense from Dolby's shielding angle from the start of D1 and onward, and Borg’s unwillingness to vote Dolby now. This HK push towards Dolby also makes me think HK/Dolby are more unlikely to be w/w.

The way I see it, BP and HK are always bad though, and I want one of those two as our consensus. I've got several problems with BP's latest post, but I'm too tired to fully research and debate that right now. The obvious problems though are I'm innocent, and that it's LYLO, look at the player list and run the calcs, I don't think there's a way we win if we mislynch unless the SK takes out a wolf and the wolves take out the SK, which I don't see happening, LYLO could indicate that the SK or the wolves could pull out a double-kill again

[Vroendal]

I’m sorry, Ibn. Alright, I see. My current PoE -

Csargo being mech-cleared has saved us lots of hardship, that's fantastic. Laurentus is as close to being fully cleared as I can put him, his behavior and his derp-supported absence D/N1 (which I wouldn’t consider him faking) when there were kills both from the wolves and from the SK puts him in a very good position from my perspective. If I can trust any credibility I have as someone who's played with him and observed him many times, he's town.

As for Winston, unfortunately, this is a thing:


Rereading d1 I have come to a shocking conclusion. N1, I targeted Winston alone and therefore the result isn't 100% reliable
...
So Winston isn't technically completely cleared. (Please read the original quote and following pzelda quotes on the next page for full context) Apparently I haven't been understanding pzelda's ability correctly, and availed myself of checking out what had actually been claimed. I still can't shake my suspicions of Winston from D1, but "as little as half as reliable" as stated from pzelda's role-flip implies 50% as the minimum chance to get a correct answer, so I suppose Winston is still more likely town than not. Many have been town-reading him for reasons that as of yet remain unclear to me, but on the basis of meta alone I can admit that grounding from players experienced with him point in his favor. I seem to be the only one who's wanted to push him for any good reason and I know I'm wrong a lot. In conclusion: I don't want him as a wagon at all today, but check out the interaction data from the flip just in case for sure.

Granting that most suggestions and evidence that has been brought up regarding who the SK might be has pointed almost exclusively to HK, I feel relatively confident based on that and PoE putting him as the likeliest one to be the SK.

This means that as a result of PoE, I am led to the conclusion that the wolves are most likely to be Dolby and BP. I'm rather shocked, from my perspective Dolby has had an incredible tone and what I felt to be overall great content, and I now have greater respect for his abilities. It leaves a slightly bitter taste in my mouth, but I guess there's always someone who's gonna fool you badly. Dolby and BP makes the greatest sense from Dolby's shielding angle from the start of D1 and onward, and Borg’s unwillingness to vote Dolby now. This HK push towards Dolby also makes me think HK/Dolby are more unlikely to be w/w.

The way I see it, BP and HK are always bad though, and I want one of those two as our consensus. I've got several problems with BP's latest post, but I'm too tired to fully research and debate that right now. The obvious problems though are I'm innocent, and that it's LYLO, look at the player list and run the calcs, I don't think there's a way we win if we mislynch unless the SK takes out a wolf and the wolves take out the SK, which I don't see happening, LYLO could indicate that the SK or the wolves could pull out a double-kill again

[Vroendal]

Ugh. Is the host allowed to delete posts?

Double-posting a wall is a major oof and it wouldn't accept my edit.

[Laurentus]

IT IS LYLO FOR TOWN

If you do not oust scum today you will lose!
BorgPicard: read the above.

[Laurentus]

ok, actual clears:
csargo via pzelda/monty

semi-clears:
vro via laurentus conversation yesterday derping on pzelda ability
laurentus claims pzelda cleared him


Leaves us with the following:
hk
dolby
winston
borg

I know I'm town, so that leaves, if I believe all the clears, dolby/winston/borg to contain the SK and both wolves.
Of the two semi-clears I think the least cleared is laurentus. Wolf?Laurentus could still clear via derp town vro b/c town vro isn't going to push on wolf?laurentus b/c of the clear yeah?

Likewise that conversation could have been theater to try to get both of them cleared, but that's a tinfoil world that I'm not sure is worth digging into.

At one point Winston was claiming to have been cop checked. I'm going to go looking for that today.
I think, in all worlds, dolby has to go today.

Okay, yeah, if you're Town, take everything HK says with a massive dose of salt, this tinfoiling to the closest thing we have to a town leader at LYLO has basically just outed that whatever he is, it ain't Town.

And we can start treating the SK as almost scum, too, although we have to hit it last.

[Laurentus]

With Csargo mechanically proven as well that leaves me with scum reads in this order
Vro
Winston
Dolby
HK

And Sk reads
HK
Dolby
Winston

With the lack of SK kills, I am assuming rb or maybe a holster. If it was rb, I am assuming by mafia and that means mafia knows who it is. If it is holster then they don't, and are probably going to be trying to kill them, because if flavor holds out, sk wins in a 1v1v1. If it was a sk holster, thanks it has allowed for mech clears of two townies.
What that leaves is that we need to kill a mafia, and we definitely don't want to hit sk as that screws us. Even if we hit a town today, if the sk hits a mafia tonight we can still pull through. And possibly win it. With that in mind I cannot be convinced to vote for HK or Dolby, my top two SK picks. The only choice I have left is between Winston and Vro. Given Laurentus being proven to me, I will most likely be sheeping them onto Vro.

What do you make of Vro's derpiness when I pretended to be the SK?

[Laurentus]

To recap who everyone wants to kill:

Vro wants to chop Dolby and/or Borg.
Borg wants to chop Vro.
HK wants to chop Dolby.
Dolby wants to chop Vro. (As near as I can tell, he didn't offer up HK or Borg as a potential chop, and he's choosing not to tinfoil Winston).

So my own PoE of Borg and Dolby both want to chop Vro and Vro wants to chop both of them.

Winston Hughes, where you at?

[Winston Hughes]

I don't understand why we're at lylo, but, to break the habit of a lifetime, I also don't feel like I ought to give it any more thought at this point.

The essential fact is that the host says we have to chop scum today.

And unless Csar has some shocking revelation lined up to change the dynamic here - or Laurentus changes his mind on Vroe - I'm at the point where I have to treat dolby, hk and borg as confirmed villains.

I mean, if I let paranoia off the leash, I could quite easily cook up a case against Vroe - I voted there yesterday, after all - but I have a strong sense that that would only move the dial at all if Vroe was actually town.

So, with a scum chop required, the question presents itself to me in quite straightforward terms:

Is there any way that HK and Dolby could actually be scumbuddies here?

If not, we chop borg.

If so...

*sucks air through teeth*

[Laurentus]

Only scum team equity I see here for Vro is with me and HK. Could be with Dolby, which would explain Dolby's reluctance to wanna offer up more than "Vro is Town individually, though." But I think there's much clearer team equity between Dolby and Borg.

[Winston Hughes]

Winston Hughes, where you at?

:laugh4:

Can't fault my timing.

[Laurentus]

I don't understand why we're at lylo, but, to break the habit of a lifetime, I also don't feel like I ought to give it any more thought at this point.

The essential fact is that the host says we have to chop scum today.

And unless Csar has some shocking revelation lined up to change the dynamic here - or Laurentus changes his mind on Vroe - I'm at the point where I have to treat dolby, hk and borg as confirmed villains.

I mean, if I let paranoia off the leash, I could quite easily cook up a case against Vroe - I voted there yesterday, after all - but I have a strong sense that that would only move the dial at all if Vroe was actually town.

So, with a scum chop required, the question presents itself to me in quite straightforward terms:

Is there any way that HK and Dolby could actually be scumbuddies here?

If not, we chop borg.

If so...

*sucks air through teeth*

Yeah, reason I'm reluctant to go after Borg right now is because there is a possibility he's the SK. Well, a stronger likelihood than Dolby as SK, anyway, with how Borg started to scum read Tim late D1 (I still don't buy this nonsense that he's a cop, lol, although I admire your tenacity in sticking with your story, Borg).

[Laurentus]

Can anyone recall what Borg's position on Panda was?

[Laurentus]

Okay, yeah, I can't really see what putting this off is going to accomplish. Either Vro is the best goddamned Wolf in history to have faked that derp, or he's just Town here. I now fully embrace my read of Vro as Town. GG if you're woofin'.

Winston I'm still not completely sold on, but I'm also struggling to see a lot of team potential.

Borg and Dolby have had each other's backs all the way, which is Indicative of a team, really.

HK is just SK, with the potential to be bad with exactly Dolby if it's in fact Borg who is SK.

So I think I'm'a just activate Voltron now:
Csargo Winston Hughes Vroendal

Join me in:

Vote: Dolby

and let's see who's right, and who's dead.

[Winston Hughes]

Yeah, reason I'm reluctant to go after Borg right now is because there is a possibility he's the SK. Well, a stronger likelihood than Dolby as SK, anyway, with how Borg started to scum read Tim late D1 (I still don't buy this nonsense that he's a cop, lol, although I admire your tenacity in sticking with your story, Borg).

This has reminded me of a fleeting thought I had a few days back, but didn't linger on at the time...

From the start, the scum knew there was a third party. It wasn't clear until n1 that the 3P was scum-hostile, iirc. But the image of the spider-eyed, toothy, wolfy thing being at the top of both sign-ups and game thread doesn't exactly suggest a neutral survivor role, to my eyes at least.

It doesn't seem a major leap to think the scum were concerned about getting killed by the 3P. Indeed, it might explain why Tim didn't spam up the thread in his usual manner (which, full disclosure, I'm a little sad about because Tim in full-flow is a thing of beauty).

And if they also had reason to suspect the existence of some kind of town investigative power (which is hardly unlikely even if they didn't have any inside knowledge), then Tim being something of an investigation magnet (takes one to know one) there would seem good reason for Tim's buddies to preemptively distance themselves.

[Winston Hughes]

Okay, yeah, I can't really see what putting this off is going to accomplish. Either Vro is the best goddamned Wolf in history to have faked that derp, or he's just Town here. I now fully embrace my read of Vro as Town. GG if you're woofin'.

Winston I'm still not completely sold on, but I'm also struggling to see a lot of team potential.

Borg and Dolby have had each other's backs all the way, which is Indicative of a team, really.

HK is just SK, with the potential to be bad with exactly Dolby if it's in fact Borg who is SK.

So I think I'm'a just activate Voltron now:
Csargo Winston Hughes Vroendal

Join me in:

Vote: Dolby

and let's see who's right, and who's dead.

My current hypothesis is that Dolby is the sk.

:laugh4:

[Winston Hughes]

Borg and Dolby have had each other's backs all the way, which is Indicative of a team, really.

This is true.

But has it not been a bit obvious?

[Laurentus]

My current hypothesis is that Dolby is the sk.

:laugh4:

Okay, but why?

[Laurentus]

This is true.

But has it not been a bit obvious?

Maybe, but the alternative is an HK and Borg team, and I just... don't immediately see it. What's your take on a team like that.

[Laurentus]

Also, the Wolves didn't have a lot of options but to fully embrace each other as Town, because no one really expected there to be so many night kills N3, so honestly, if I were woofin' here, I'd never do anything that could compromise me or my scum bud's Town equity here, simply because trying to win this setup as the last remaining wolf was gonna be... challenging, so the fact that Borg and Dolby both wanna chop Vro, and the fact that they've been so obvious, really doesn't give me pause for my read of them as the scum team.

[Laurentus]

Okay, Dolby, I don't think you can be treated as Town anymore, but if you're SK, you have a chance to win here if you help us scum hunt, so what do you think of HK and Borg as the scum team?

[Winston Hughes]

Maybe, but the alternative is an HK and Borg team, and I just... don't immediately see it. What's your take on a team like that.

I'll need to do some reading around their relationship, but I don't recall any strong positive evidence for their being mutually exclusive.

[Laurentus]

Also, in the event that Winston is actually scum, I think it's with exactly Dolby, so BorgPicard, how do you feel about a Dolby chop?

[Winston Hughes]

From my perspective, there are three possible scum teams, listed here from most salient to least based on obvious thread interactions:

dolby/borg

borg/hk

hk/dolby

That is to say, dolby/borg are the ones who've seemed most like buddies, while hk/dolby have seemed most antagonistic.

If we want the best chance at hitting scum here, I think the trick is to figure which of the three combinations is least likely, and then hit whoever is in both of the two more likely ones.

Based on salience alone, that's borg.

But salience is a bad measure. Far too easy for scum to fool town if the focus is solely on what sticks out.

The good news is that it's still a long time until eod, and I'm home alone with no work 'til Tuesday. ~:cool:

[Laurentus]

This is pure WIFOM

[Winston Hughes]

Just because Paranoia must have its moment, how's this for a tinfoil...

Csargo is the Infiltrator, who shows up as town if pzelda's investigation isn't partnered. And Csar's buddy is Laurentus.

:sweatdrop:

[Winston Hughes]

This is pure WIFOM

It's certainly no science.

But what else am I going to do with my long weekend?

[Laurentus]

Just because Paranoia must have its moment, how's this for a tinfoil...

Csargo is the Infiltrator, who shows up as town if pzelda's investigation isn't partnered. And Csar's buddy is Laurentus.

:sweatdrop:

The more you speak, the more I'm getting the itch to policy chop you.

[Laurentus]

Okay, Dolby, I don't think you can be treated as Town anymore, but if you're SK, you have a chance to win here if you help us scum hunt, so what do you think of HK and Borg as the scum team?

You know, Dolby, I'm also open to a Winston/Borg team here.

[Winston Hughes]

The more you speak, the more I'm getting the itch to policy chop you.

Yeah. I get that a lot.

I am inherently triggering in situations like this.

[Laurentus]

No, wait, that literally doesn't make any sense. He wants to chop Borg. Never mind, brain fart. Winston/HK could be a thing, though.

[Winston Hughes]

Thing is, though. I know exactly how triggering I am. Especially when I explain why I never do this as scum. Which is why I never do this as scum. ~D

[Winston Hughes]

Must. Stop. Channelling. Pizza.

:drama1:

[Laurentus]

Wait. Could Winston be the SK? That would explain HK's tinfoiling because of my proposed PoE.

[Winston Hughes]

Wait. Could Winston be the SK? That would explain HK's tinfoiling because of my proposed PoE.

I'm not following your line of thought here. Could you unpack it?

[Laurentus]

With Csargo mechanically proven as well that leaves me with scum reads in this order
Vro
Winston
Dolby
HK

And Sk reads
HK
Dolby
Winston

With the lack of SK kills, I am assuming rb or maybe a holster. If it was rb, I am assuming by mafia and that means mafia knows who it is. If it is holster then they don't, and are probably going to be trying to kill them, because if flavor holds out, sk wins in a 1v1v1. If it was a sk holster, thanks it has allowed for mech clears of two townies.
What that leaves is that we need to kill a mafia, and we definitely don't want to hit sk as that screws us. Even if we hit a town today, if the sk hits a mafia tonight we can still pull through. And possibly win it. With that in mind I cannot be convinced to vote for HK or Dolby, my top two SK picks. The only choice I have left is between Winston and Vro. Given Laurentus being proven to me, I will most likely be sheeping them onto Vro.

Wait, where did I say I was going to vote Vro? I specifically said the opposite: that I wasn't chopping there.

[Winston Hughes]

Wait, where did I say I was going to vote Vro? I specifically said the opposite: that I wasn't chopping there.

That whole post does seem like a rather ham-fisted way to justify not voting for either of his possible buddies.

[Laurentus]

I'm not following your line of thought here. Could you unpack it?

You're sitting at a 50% chance of being properly scanned as Town, and HK has gone from "Laurentus and Vro are Town" to "let's tinfoil Lau" a bit, which could easily be explained by simply being the SK and realising he's been boxed in, and trying to stir some shit in an attempt to escape said box, but it can also be explained by being actual Town and suddenly distrusting the guy pushing the PoE, in this case me.

[Laurentus]

You're sitting at a 50% chance of being properly scanned as Town, and HK has gone from "Laurentus and Vro are Town" to "let's tinfoil Lau" a bit, which could easily be explained by simply being the SK and realising he's been boxed in, and trying to stir some shit in an attempt to escape said box, but it can also be explained by being actual Town and suddenly distrusting the guy pushing the PoE, in this case me.

To further elaborate, Winston, the reason my PoE would be wrong is if I've let the SK or a Wolf slip into my don't-chops. And I'm thinking that would most likely be you.

[Winston Hughes]

You're sitting at a 50% chance of being properly scanned as Town, and HK has gone from "Laurentus and Vro are Town" to "let's tinfoil Lau" a bit, which could easily be explained by simply being the SK and realising he's been boxed in, and trying to stir some shit in an attempt to escape said box, but it can also be explained by being actual Town and suddenly distrusting the guy pushing the PoE, in this case me.

I mean, from my perspective, it can only be the former.

But, okay, I understand your thought process now.

And, to be clear, I am never pushing the Paranoia line today as an actual thing. If somehow you really are scum here, you totally deserve this win.

[Laurentus]

Well, hollowkatt, if you're not scum or the SK, then where has my PoE gone wrong?

[Winston Hughes]

To further elaborate, Winston, the reason my PoE would be wrong is if I've let the SK or a Wolf slip into my don't-chops. And I'm thinking that would most likely be you.

Of course.

And, although from a winning-the-game perspective, it would be better if that investigation had fully cleared me, from a me-enjoying-myself perspective this is very much preferable.

[Laurentus]

I mean, from my perspective, it can only be the former.

But, okay, I understand your thought process now.

And, to be clear, I am never pushing the Paranoia line today as an actual thing. If somehow you really are scum here, you totally deserve this win.

Wait, so you now think that HK is the SK? What happened to your read of Dolby as SK?

[Winston Hughes]

Wait, so you now think that HK is the SK? What happened to your read of Dolby as SK?

I meant between the choices you presented.

[Winston Hughes]

And, to be clear, I'm not reading Dolby as the sk.

I'm just working from that hypothesis currently.

[Winston Hughes]

To unpack that a bit...

Dolby and Borg are the obvious pairing. They've been buddying hard for all to see.

HK and Dolby are antagonists. They've been slapping each other about.

HK and Borg have not been anything notable that I can recall, and so appear less likely to be buddies than D/B and more likely than H/D, based solely on surface appearances.

But isn't that exactly where the real buddies are more likely to end up in this situation, neither wanting to make the connection too obvious nor pushing each other too hard towards the firing line?

This is why my hypothesis has Dolby as the sk, at least until I've gotten into the reading.

[Winston Hughes]

Does that make sense?

[Laurentus]

What motive would Dolby and Borg possibly have had to appear so buddy-buddy, other than just being buddy-buddy because they're just Wolves.

[Laurentus]

I detest WIFOM on principle.

[Winston Hughes]

What motive would Dolby and Borg possibly have had to appear so buddy-buddy, other than just being buddy-buddy because they're just Wolves.

I think they have a meta-game relationship going on. Something about cop claims and paragons of towniness.

[Winston Hughes]

I detest WIFOM on principle.

I embrace it as an inescapable part of this ridiculous, maddening, and horribly addictive game.

Although that is a major reason why I only play twice a year these days.

[Winston Hughes]

Why is it WIFOM to think D/B's buddying is less likely from actual buddies than from non-buddies, but not the reverse?

[Winston Hughes]

What motive would Dolby and Borg possibly have had to appear so buddy-buddy, other than just being buddy-buddy because they're just Wolves.

Another answer is that from each of their perspectives (regardless of which is scum and which is sk), the relationship was working for them.

It might very well have led to suspicion about why the other was playing along, but so long as it was helping their own cause there would seem little reason to disturb things.

[Laurentus]

Something to note here, although it should maybe have been obvious and I'm just having a slow morning for only realising it now: I think the Wolves are going to want to push for the SK to be lynched here.

And I've been thinking about how weird it is for us to be at LYLO. The only think that makes sense for why we need to chop scum is that the SK has a delayed kill, and has already chosen to target a Townie for the night. Therefore, even if we chop the SK the could would still be successful and come night, we'd lose 2 townies, putting us at parity with the Wolves.

Given that we are losing a Townie regardless, if we chop a Wolf, we still lose two townies, but then the distribution is 2:1:1 Town:Scum:SK for the last day.

Therefore, we as Town don't really have a choice but to treat the SK as Town today, and SK, whoever you are, if you want a chance at the win, you'll either have to get a Townie mischopped today (quickest route to victory), or take your chances with us today and help get a Wolf chopped, so you can get another chance at fooling Town in the next day phase.

[Winston Hughes]

And I've been thinking about how weird it is for us to be at LYLO. The only think that makes sense for why we need to chop scum is that the SK has a delayed kill, and has already chosen to target a Townie for the night. Therefore, even if we chop the SK the could would still be successful and come night, we'd lose 2 townies, putting us at parity with the Wolves.

Doesn't that assume that the scum don't target the same townie?

[Laurentus]

Why is it WIFOM to think D/B's buddying is less likely from actual buddies than from non-buddies, but not the reverse?
Good point.

[Laurentus]

Doesn't that assume that the scum don't target the same townie?
Again, good point, so there could also be another double-kill from the SK headed our way, in which case even if we lynch scum today, it doesn't even guarantee we don't just lose during the night.

[Winston Hughes]

Doesn't that assume that the scum don't target the same townie?

Although I suppose it could be a delayed day-kill, but that's getting awfully specific.

[Winston Hughes]

This is why I decided to just not even think about it, despite such speculation being one of the game's great pleasures.

[Laurentus]

Let's see if we can find some sort of consensus path forward here:

Do we agree that Borg is the most likely scum bud in both an HK and Dolby world? I still have reservations about chopping there because of the SK potential, but I also think HK has the greatest potential to be actually be the SK. Borg's comment explaining that he was thankful for the Panda and Nanook kills gives me serious pause, though.

[Winston Hughes]

Let's see if we can find some sort of consensus path forward here:

Do we agree that Borg is the most likely scum bud in both an HK and Dolby world? I still have reservations about chopping there because of the SK potential, but I also think HK has the greatest potential to be actually be the SK. Borg's comment explaining that he was thankful for the Panda and Nanook kills gives me serious pause, though.

I want to do some reading before moving towards any kind of commitment.

[Winston Hughes]

Dolby hollowkatt BorgPicard

Suggest you all claim sk asap.

Least convincing gets chopped.

:verycool:

[Winston Hughes]

Rereading the first 200 posts has not done much to support my hypothesis.

Borg/Tim being buddies is very plausible.

HK/Tim is less so, but I could still see it.

Borg/HK/Tim though? If so, I have no idea what the hell they were trying to do there.

[Winston Hughes]

I suppose hk could have started running interference after seeing Borg's buddying with Tim as problematic.

Bit of a stretch, though.

[Winston Hughes]

although hk then moving quite quickly from borg to pzelda would seem to support that, given how borg was picking up votes

[Winston Hughes]

the thread is simple; we just chop Raskol, Chessguy, and HK, and if the wolves haven't slaughtered Argon for claiming cop we circle back and chop him


would be perfectly happy chopping panda/pzelda/raskol today, Borg is meh but also I'm kinda eh so..

:7detective:

[BorgPicard]

Rereading the first 200 posts has not done much to support my hypothesis.

Borg/Tim being buddies is very plausible.

HK/Tim is less so, but I could still see it.

Borg/HK/Tim though? If so, I have no idea what the hell they were trying to do there.
Okay Vro is of the top of my list, now you are on Top Winston. Me and Tim being a team is the furthest thing from the truth possible. There is no way to read that is any universe anyone here lives in. I am in fact beyond insulted you would suggest such a thing as me being on a team with that scummy scumbo Tim. Also I do get why people were thinking I am teamed with Dolby, but that was at first in jest, then cause I was suspicious of Tim and now I won't vote them for a completely different reason.
Winston is now 100% mafia man with a likely Vro and a possible HK.

[Winston Hughes]

Suggest you all claim sk asap.


Okay Vro is of the top of my list, now you are on Top Winston. Me and Tim being a team is the furthest thing from the truth possible. There is no way to read that is any universe anyone here lives in. I am in fact beyond insulted you would suggest such a thing as me being on a team with that scummy scumbo Tim. Also I do get why people were thinking I am teamed with Dolby, but that was at first in jest, then cause I was suspicious of Tim and now I won't vote them for a completely different reason.
Winston is now 100% mafia man with a likely Vro and a possible HK.

Well, that's a start, I guess.

~;p

[Winston Hughes]

How are Vroe and I more scummy than hk and Dolby here, though, LA?

[Winston Hughes]

Also, setting aside the hyperbole, why is it so ridiculous to think you and Tim possible buddies?

I mean, it's not like there's many other options available.

[Winston Hughes]

The more I think about that cop role, the more I sympathise with pzelda.

The anxiety and paranoia inherent to that role would have driven me crazy.

[BorgPicard]

I think I have to do this here, I know who the SK is and it is one of HK/Dolby. If laurentus and Csargo want me to tell them I will. I didn't want to reveal in case of mafia role blocker, but I have major doubts if they have one, in fact since I haven't been roleblocked after all my claims, then I can be safe in assuming they don't have one. I also know one of them didn't kill pzelda last night, but still might be mafia. That is why I am pushing so hard on Winston and Vro, since I know at least one of them is mafia. Winston if you really are town, then I now know the mafia. If you are mafia, then tonight I will know who is mafia. If Csargo and laurentus want me to hardclaim then I will, but until then I give you this info to act upon.

[Winston Hughes]

:laugh4:

Is it just because I know it's fake that this seems really fake to me?

[Winston Hughes]

Paranoia: but vroe...

Sanity: cease your bullshit!

[Laurentus]

Did... did Borg just out himself, p much?

Argon, you know I'm never buying that claim.

[Laurentus]

You also still haven't told me what you think of the Vro derp.

[Laurentus]

Also, sure, whatever, go ahead and hard claim, lol. We're at LYLO, we have bigger things to worry about than the scum killing a PR at night.

[BorgPicard]

You also still haven't told me what you think of the Vro derp.

Deeps do not exist to me.

[Winston Hughes]

This really is a very beautifully poised situation.

Thanks, Monty. I knew I could count on you. :bow:

[Laurentus]

Okay Vro is of the top of my list, now you are on Top Winston. Me and Tim being a team is the furthest thing from the truth possible. There is no way to read that is any universe anyone here lives in. I am in fact beyond insulted you would suggest such a thing as me being on a team with that scummy scumbo Tim. Also I do get why people were thinking I am teamed with Dolby, but that was at first in jest, then cause I was suspicious of Tim and now I won't vote them for a completely different reason.
Winston is now 100% mafia man with a likely Vro and a possible HK.

Oh, god, I wish there was someone here with Town meta for Argon who I could somehow trust. It feels way overblown, but I don't recall him throwing down this hard when he was about to be lynched in our last game together, and he was scum there.

[hollowkatt]

ok, actual clears:
csargo via pzelda/monty

semi-clears:
vro via laurentus conversation yesterday derping on pzelda ability
laurentus claims pzelda cleared him


Leaves us with the following:
hk
dolby
winston
borg

I know I'm town, so that leaves, if I believe all the clears, dolby/winston/borg to contain the SK and both wolves.
Of the two semi-clears I think the least cleared is laurentus. Wolf?Laurentus could still clear via derp town vro b/c town vro isn't going to push on wolf?laurentus b/c of the clear yeah?

Likewise that conversation could have been theater to try to get both of them cleared, but that's a tinfoil world that I'm not sure is worth digging into.

At one point Winston was claiming to have been cop checked. I'm going to go looking for that today.
I think, in all worlds, dolby has to go today.


Okay, yeah, if you're Town, take everything HK says with a massive dose of salt, this tinfoiling to the closest thing we have to a town leader at LYLO has basically just outed that whatever he is, it ain't Town.

And we can start treating the SK as almost scum, too, although we have to hit it last.

vote: Laurentus

That's not the town response to what I posted. Sorry for your rand

[Winston Hughes]

Oh, god, I wish there was someone here with Town meta for Argon who I could somehow trust. It feels way overblown, but I don't recall him throwing down this hard when he was about to be lynched in our last game together, and he was scum there.

Did he get caught?

[Laurentus]

Lol, did HK just out as well?

[hollowkatt]

To recap who everyone wants to kill:

Vro wants to chop Dolby and/or Borg.
Borg wants to chop Vro.
HK wants to chop Dolby.
Dolby wants to chop Vro. (As near as I can tell, he didn't offer up HK or Borg as a potential chop, and he's choosing not to tinfoil Winston).

So my own PoE of Borg and Dolby both want to chop Vro and Vro wants to chop both of them.

Winston Hughes, where you at?

Now I want to chop you

[Laurentus]

Did he get caught?

He was the counterwagon on D1 (with the main wagon being our other scum bud) and he was lynched on the second last day in the end. He didn't fight the lynch well.

[Laurentus]

Now I want to chop you

Do explain your thought process.

[Winston Hughes]

Suggest you all claim sk asap.


vote: Laurentus

That's not the town response to what I posted. Sorry for your rand

I appreciate the concept, but the execution doesn't convince.

[Winston Hughes]

He was the counterwagon on D1 (with the main wagon being our other scum bud) and he was lynched on the second last day in the end. He didn't fight the lynch well.

So maybe he learned from it?

[hollowkatt]

The more you speak, the more I'm getting the itch to policy chop you.

What townie talks about policy in lylo? asking for a friend

[Laurentus]

What townie talks about policy in lylo? asking for a friend

This Townie right here.

[Laurentus]

So maybe he learned from it?

Certainly could be a thing. Metas change, people improve.

[Winston Hughes]

What townie talks about policy in lylo? asking for a friend

One who's using it to press a possible but somewhat unlikely suspect who keeps saying stuff that makes you paranoid.

It felt totally natural to me.

[hollowkatt]

Do explain your thought process.

you have two bad posts today. The first bad post is the one where you tell everyone to take what I'm saying with a massive dose of salt.
I said yesterday when people started floating theories that I'm bad (mafia or SK didn't matter) that yesterday was 100% the right day to chop me.
YOU yourself said "no HK, you are town and you are stuck here" and with extremely little analysis or thought you shift that read 180 degrees into "HK isn't blindly trusting me therefore he is a bad guy".

That's not how town should play lylo here. If anything you, as town, should be thankful that I'm taking my time and talking through possibilities and how I'm reading the thread so that we can all get on the same page, right?

Just because I'm saying of the semi-clears you could still be a wolf doesn't mean I'm wolfing here, it means I'm trying to ensure that the people we have as "cleared" are actually cleared.

Your second bad post is where you recap where every one wants to kill. Dolby has put me on his list of bad guys as well, and has for at least one phase, so for you to say he's not offering me up is wrong.

Finally, your post towards winston, saying "the more you talk the more I'm itching to policy you" stifles discussion, eliminates a voice from your consideration and for what? Nothing that I can see from you points towards Winston being a wolf or the SK here.

Talking about policy, even as a joke, in lylo is something town should never ever do.

[BorgPicard]

Okay I am a tracker. Hard claim.
I tracked Tim n1, and he was the killer, but since a certain someone killed them that hot me nowhere.
I tracked myself n2 through time and space aka roleblocked. I targeted nanook
I tracked Dolby n3 and I learned his dark secret that he can somehow visit multiple people.
I tracked HK, got no movement.
This leads me to the conclusion that there is a garenteed mafia among Vro and Winston.

This can be made simpler if Winston votes me and then town can choose whether to face one mafia or one sk. If Winston votes me we can safely ignore them and maybe vote out Dolby leaving us with HK or Vro as possible mafia with laurentus or Csargo casting the deciding vote.

[hollowkatt]

No, wait, that literally doesn't make any sense. He wants to chop Borg. Never mind, brain fart. Winston/HK could be a thing, though.

with every post about teams today you're widening the potential poe and you're apparently living in a world now where I'm never town, even after yesterday you saying "hk you are town and you're not dying today".

What changed, why, and where's your work showing it?

[Winston Hughes]

Certainly could be a thing. Metas change, people improve.

Also worth noting that the scum are tantalisingly close to a win here.

[hollowkatt]

Well, hollowkatt, if you're not scum or the SK, then where has my PoE gone wrong?

What is your POE right now? You've mentioned pretty much everyone that isn't you, csargo, and vro as possible bad guys. So dolby, winston, myself, borg right?

I'd say a poe of winston, dolby, borg isn't bad at all. That's functionally the poe I started the day with. Your posts thus far are making me question you, and if I question you likely I swap you and winston and see how that feels.

[hollowkatt]

Something to note here, although it should maybe have been obvious and I'm just having a slow morning for only realising it now: I think the Wolves are going to want to push for the SK to be lynched here.

And I've been thinking about how weird it is for us to be at LYLO. The only think that makes sense for why we need to chop scum is that the SK has a delayed kill, and has already chosen to target a Townie for the night. Therefore, even if we chop the SK the could would still be successful and come night, we'd lose 2 townies, putting us at parity with the Wolves.

Given that we are losing a Townie regardless, if we chop a Wolf, we still lose two townies, but then the distribution is 2:1:1 Town:Scum:SK for the last day.

Therefore, we as Town don't really have a choice but to treat the SK as Town today, and SK, whoever you are, if you want a chance at the win, you'll either have to get a Townie mischopped today (quickest route to victory), or take your chances with us today and help get a Wolf chopped, so you can get another chance at fooling Town in the next day phase.

it's 4-2-1 today. For town that means lylo because if we chop town today and wolves kill town tonight it's 2-2-1 and mafia have reached parity with town and we lose.
That's irrespective of what the SK does. If the SK hits a wolf then awesome, it's 2-1-1 and we still might lose to a draw vote and NK.

For us to win we must kill a wolf today and the more you talk about options and expanding the POE the less I think you're town

[Winston Hughes]

hk and borg feel like scum trying to catch up with a situation that's going south for them

and it's a valiant effort

just not very believable

[hollowkatt]

Dolby hollowkatt BorgPicard

Suggest you all claim sk asap.

Least convincing gets chopped.

:verycool:

VT sorry

[hollowkatt]

Rereading the first 200 posts has not done much to support my hypothesis.

Borg/Tim being buddies is very plausible.

HK/Tim is less so, but I could still see it.

Borg/HK/Tim though? If so, I have no idea what the hell they were trying to do there.

if the team was borg hk tim tim doesn't die N1, that's for sure

[Winston Hughes]

if the team was borg hk tim tim doesn't die N1, that's for sure

why?

[Winston Hughes]

And why focus on Laurentus right now, when Borg's just made that claim?

[hollowkatt]

Lol, did HK just out as well?

yeah, as townie as fuck :wine:

[Winston Hughes]

Feeling more positive about my Dolby hypothesis now, L?

[Laurentus]

you have two bad posts today. The first bad post is the one where you tell everyone to take what I'm saying with a massive dose of salt.
I said yesterday when people started floating theories that I'm bad (mafia or SK didn't matter) that yesterday was 100% the right day to chop me.
YOU yourself said "no HK, you are town and you are stuck here" and with extremely little analysis or thought you shift that read 180 degrees into "HK isn't blindly trusting me therefore he is a bad guy".

That's not how town should play lylo here. If anything you, as town, should be thankful that I'm taking my time and talking through possibilities and how I'm reading the thread so that we can all get on the same page, right?

Just because I'm saying of the semi-clears you could still be a wolf doesn't mean I'm wolfing here, it means I'm trying to ensure that the people we have as "cleared" are actually cleared.

Your second bad post is where you recap where every one wants to kill. Dolby has put me on his list of bad guys as well, and has for at least one phase, so for you to say he's not offering me up is wrong.

Finally, your post towards winston, saying "the more you talk the more I'm itching to policy you" stifles discussion, eliminates a voice from your consideration and for what? Nothing that I can see from you points towards Winston being a wolf or the SK here.

Talking about policy, even as a joke, in lylo is something town should never ever do.

You... realise that reads changing are a thing, don't you? I was also SRing Csargo until we scanned him and found he was inno. That, coupled with everything I outlined in my first post, let me put you in my PoE - again, in my very first post. To claim lack of progression is a horrifyingly bad take from you.

As to your second paragraph, I have seen it time and time again that when scum gets cornered, they latch onto the unlikeliest of worlds in order to try and get the heat off them, and with you being in my PoE, your tinfoiling of me came across as exactly that.

As to your Dolby point, do you think I'm swayed by him offering you up at some point in the past? I asked him how my Winston and Vro reads could be wrong, and he couldn't answer at that point. Instead he said he was not going to try and argue against my Winston read and Vro looked really towny, too. So just by process of elimination, since he needs to remove one of them from the town world in order take their place in it, I took his "but Vro looks so towny, ugh" as a sign that he was reluctantly choosing to question Vro's alignment there. I also don't have perfect memory of everyone and who they've scum read at all points in the game.

And then on to the Winston one, I was getting agitated by his tin-foily nonsense for the same reason I got agitated by your tin-foily nonsense.

[hollowkatt]

Okay I am a tracker. Hard claim.
I tracked Tim n1, and he was the killer, but since a certain someone killed them that hot me nowhere.
I tracked myself n2 through time and space aka roleblocked. I targeted nanook
I tracked Dolby n3 and I learned his dark secret that he can somehow visit multiple people.
I tracked HK, got no movement.
This leads me to the conclusion that there is a garenteed mafia among Vro and Winston.

This can be made simpler if Winston votes me and then town can choose whether to face one mafia or one sk. If Winston votes me we can safely ignore them and maybe vote out Dolby leaving us with HK or Vro as possible mafia with laurentus or Csargo casting the deciding vote.

I don't not buy this.

Ok, we have today the following alive people:
hk
borg
winston
csargo
laurentus
vro
dolby

csargo is unimpeachable as town via pzelda and the monty N4 writeup yeah?
So that leaves us with the following
hk
borg
winston
laurentus
vro
dolby

THERE ARE 3 BAD GUYS IN THAT GROUP OF 6
We have literally a 50/50 shot of picking a name at random and hitting a bad guy. We need to hit a wolf today so the math is somewhat different and I'm bad at probabilities but my point is this: I know I am town, so removing myself from the pool means that in the set of {borg, winston, laurentus, vro, dolby} there are three bad guys.

IF laurentus is town and correctly clears vro via the derp the right and proper POE is winston, dolby, borg.
That's what my post earlier was saying and that's apparently something Laurentus takes umbrage with?
I wanted feedback on that post, not "hk has to be a bad guy for making it" feedback either lol


If Borg is telling the truth here and he is town tracker (you'll notice he didn't claim town tracker tho just tracker) then one of laurentus/vro MUST be a wolf.

[hollowkatt]

hk and borg feel like scum trying to catch up with a situation that's going south for them

and it's a valiant effort

just not very believable

I am shocked and offended my good sir.

[Laurentus]

with every post about teams today you're widening the potential poe and you're apparently living in a world now where I'm never town, even after yesterday you saying "hk you are town and you're not dying today".

What changed, why, and where's your work showing it?

I wanted to call in the Voltron on Dolby early exactly because the longer this shit show goes on, the more room there would be to start getting paranoid.

[hollowkatt]

why?

if I'm wolf with Tim I can give him opportunities to become differently read to dodge SK. I can also provide a better target for the SK should D1 start going badly for the wolf team and leave Tim, the objectively better wolf, alive for end game.

[Winston Hughes]

I am shocked and offended my good sir.

we can still be friends

at least until we've chopped your scumbuddy Borg

[hollowkatt]

And why focus on Laurentus right now, when Borg's just made that claim?

cause I hadn't gotten to the claim yet?

[Laurentus]

I don't not buy this.

Ok, we have today the following alive people:
hk
borg
winston
csargo
laurentus
vro
dolby

csargo is unimpeachable as town via pzelda and the monty N4 writeup yeah?
So that leaves us with the following
hk
borg
winston
laurentus
vro
dolby

THERE ARE 3 BAD GUYS IN THAT GROUP OF 6
We have literally a 50/50 shot of picking a name at random and hitting a bad guy. We need to hit a wolf today so the math is somewhat different and I'm bad at probabilities but my point is this: I know I am town, so removing myself from the pool means that in the set of {borg, winston, laurentus, vro, dolby} there are three bad guys.

IF laurentus is town and correctly clears vro via the derp the right and proper POE is winston, dolby, borg.
That's what my post earlier was saying and that's apparently something Laurentus takes umbrage with?
I wanted feedback on that post, not "hk has to be a bad guy for making it" feedback either lol


If Borg is telling the truth here and he is town tracker (you'll notice he didn't claim town tracker tho just tracker) then one of laurentus/vro MUST be a wolf.

Okay, so one thing that is a bit awkward which I'm not seeing you address here yet: why the hell would I openly acknowledge that I paired up with Zelda and helped him scan Csargo? Because that makes Csargo a 100% scan, and the last thing I want as a Wolf is any confirmed townies at LYLO.

[hollowkatt]

You... realise that reads changing are a thing, don't you? I was also SRing Csargo until we scanned him and found he was inno. That, coupled with everything I outlined in my first post, let me put you in my PoE - again, in my very first post. To claim lack of progression is a horrifyingly bad take from you.

As to your second paragraph, I have seen it time and time again that when scum gets cornered, they latch onto the unlikeliest of worlds in order to try and get the heat off them, and with you being in my PoE, your tinfoiling of me came across as exactly that.

As to your Dolby point, do you think I'm swayed by him offering you up at some point in the past? I asked him how my Winston and Vro reads could be wrong, and he couldn't answer at that point. Instead he said he was not going to try and argue against my Winston read and Vro looked really towny, too. So just by process of elimination, since he needs to remove one of them from the town world in order take their place in it, I took his "but Vro looks so towny, ugh" as a sign that he was reluctantly choosing to question Vro's alignment there. I also don't have perfect memory of everyone and who they've scum read at all points in the game.

And then on to the Winston one, I was getting agitated by his tin-foily nonsense for the same reason I got agitated by your tin-foily nonsense.

re dolby: no, I am pointing out where you're wrong. idgaf if you're swayed or not, you asked me why I posted what I did, I'm answering. One of the reasons I sus you is b/c you're wrong on things, or leaving things out.
And yeah, I'm claiming lack of progression on you.

I do realize changing reads are a thing, but like this shift from "you're not dying today" to "you must die today" is jarring, bad, and I told you so yesterday
I was topping peoples SK list yesterday, with at least one "hk is a wolf" out there. Objectively yesterday was 100% the correct day to resolve me if you're going to chop me. NOW you have to actually chop a wolf IF you are town and your push here smells a lot like "wolves need one mischop to win and HK is it"

[Winston Hughes]

if I'm wolf with Tim I can give him opportunities to become differently read to dodge SK. I can also provide a better target for the SK should D1 start going badly for the wolf team and leave Tim, the objectively better wolf, alive for end game.

That's pretty flimsy, I'm afraid.

An sk is always a wildcard.

You can't get into layers on that, especially on d1.

Also to note that the flavour suggests Tim's role was the disposable one out of the three.

[Vroendal]

Night One
Timsup2nothin has died! He was a

Bionic Operator.

[CENTER]https://i.imgur.com/jdvGUiP.jpg

Bionic Operator



You are a Goon (Mafia). The Mafia choose someone to kill at night. Kills are factional, and therefore not assigned (will not interfere with individual abilities). You win when BAKEMONO is slain and parity is met with Town, meaning Town cannot prevent your victory by numbers.

[REDACTED]


Borg's lying. Re-reading the flavor and flips is actually incredibly helpful.

He shouldn't be a tracker and there's no way he tracked Tim, the wolf kills are factional according to Tim's flip.

Vote: BorgPicard

[hollowkatt]

we can still be friends

at least until we've chopped your scumbuddy Borg

would you be so kind as to give some feedback on 1904 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154450-Rampage-Out-of-Space?p=2053822598&viewfull=1#post2053822598) please?

[Laurentus]

re dolby: no, I am pointing out where you're wrong. idgaf if you're swayed or not, you asked me why I posted what I did, I'm answering. One of the reasons I sus you is b/c you're wrong on things, or leaving things out.
And yeah, I'm claiming lack of progression on you.

I do realize changing reads are a thing, but like this shift from "you're not dying today" to "you must die today" is jarring, bad, and I told you so yesterday
I was topping peoples SK list yesterday, with at least one "hk is a wolf" out there. Objectively yesterday was 100% the correct day to resolve me if you're going to chop me. NOW you have to actually chop a wolf IF you are town and your push here smells a lot like "wolves need one mischop to win and HK is it"

Oh my god, wow, this take...

I don't know how to tell you this, but Ive been saying you're the SK the whole damn day. And I specifically said we *shouldn't* chop the SK and in fact treat it as Town for voting purposes.

[Winston Hughes]

Thinking about the whole set-up, I don't believe Monty put a town tracker in it, and I suspect that the Infiltrator and the Wolf were the roles that needed pzelda's check to be backed up by another player to get a guilty result.

What the boss bionic can do, I have no idea, and feel disinclined to speculate.

[Vroendal]

Winstons's town, nice.

[hollowkatt]

Okay, so one thing that is a bit awkward which I'm not seeing you address here yet: why the hell would I openly acknowledge that I paired up with Zelda and helped him scan Csargo? Because that makes Csargo a 100% scan, and the last thing I want as a Wolf is any confirmed townies at LYLO.

that's a decent point. the answer would be who's listening to csargo?
but sure, lets go back to the world at the beginning of the day
csargo is clear
you clear vro
pzelda clears you

that means 3 bad guys in {hk, dolby, winston, borg} right?
one of those will be town, one will be SK, the other two will be wolf.
All we have to do then is hit the 50/50 on the wolf, right?

For me the best shot there is dolby.

[Winston Hughes]

would you be so kind as to give some feedback on 1904 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154450-Rampage-Out-of-Space?p=2053822598&viewfull=1#post2053822598) please?

Feels like you're trying to spread the poe,

I mean, you're really good at posting in a voice that sounds townie.

But I'm not feeling those good vibes from your actual process now that we reach the business end of things.

[hollowkatt]

Oh my god, wow, this take...

I don't know how to tell you this, but Ive been saying you're the SK the whole damn day. And I specifically said we *shouldn't* chop the SK and in fact treat it as Town for voting purposes.

I think my point still stands. yesterday was the day to chop me, there will never be another day to chop me.

[Laurentus]

Okay, let me actually go read what Vro just pointed out now. He's good at these types of inconsistencies.

[Winston Hughes]

Winstons's town, nice.

Paranoia: ...

Sanity: SHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUP!!!

[hollowkatt]

Feels like you're trying to spread the poe,

I mean, you're really good at posting in a voice that sounds townie.

But I'm not feeling those good vibes from your actual process now that we reach the business end of things.

are you saying that b/c my poe says you must be a bad guy?
again, csargo hard town, laurentus "clear", vro "clear" leaving dolby, you, borg, myself. remove myself and that leaves you, dolby, borg...

[Laurentus]

I think my point still stands. yesterday was the day to chop me, there will never be another day to chop me.

Yes, there will: when we've chopped all the Wolves and for some reason the game goes on. If you're Town (fuck it, even if you're SK) then you can and should show me where the real one's hiding out. We have 3 day phases for that if all goes well.

[Vroendal]

Paranoia: ...

Sanity: SHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUP!!!

:sweetheart:

[Winston Hughes]

are you saying that b/c my poe says you must be a bad guy?
again, csargo hard town, laurentus "clear", vro "clear" leaving dolby, you, borg, myself. remove myself and that leaves you, dolby, borg...

No.

It's because my poe says you must be a bad guy.

And you're acting like one.

:sorry2:

[Winston Hughes]

Visor

Hope you're enjoying this.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXdNnw99-Ic

[hollowkatt]

No.

It's because my poe says you must be a bad guy.

And you're acting like one.

:sorry2:

does your poe also say dolby and borg?

there's a side by side meme here but I'm not funny enough to find it.
regardless, I think we universally "not town read" those two. So lets chop there.
vote: dolby

[Winston Hughes]

does your poe also say dolby and borg?

Yes, obviously.


there's a side by side meme here but I'm not funny enough to find it.
regardless, I think we universally "not town read" those two. So lets chop there.
vote: dolby

So you are claiming sk?

[hollowkatt]

Yes, obviously.



So you are claiming sk?

no, I'm not claiming SK.

[Winston Hughes]

no, I'm not claiming SK.

scum then, got it

[hollowkatt]

like in no universe am I claiming SK. if you want my head today you're going to wolf read me for it.

[Winston Hughes]

You're either going to have to convince me that Laurentus is a villain, or that he's wrong about Vroe.

Which seems like what you tried to do.

Problem is that Laurentus deserves an oscar if scum here.

So maybe try for Vroe?

[hollowkatt]

scum then, got it

yeah, I've gotten this far by doing basically nothing, and now that I'm thisclosetowinning I'm throwing it all away by talking about who's clear and how instead of just throwing down the mother of all buses on my packmate and using that cred to live another day.
Like I will bus, I will bus early, often, and if it suits my purposes I will bus my entire team and win off of that credit.

lol this game is funny and I am enjoying myself

[Winston Hughes]

:deal:

[Winston Hughes]

lol this game is funny and I am enjoying myself

This we can agree upon. :bow:

[hollowkatt]

You're either going to have to convince me that Laurentus is a villain, or that he's wrong about Vroe.

Which seems like what you tried to do.

Problem is that Laurentus deserves an oscar if scum here.

So maybe try for Vroe?

I'm not going to do either of those things.
Remember my post about clears? if that post is accurate wolves + Sk are you, dolby, and borg in some order.
If that post is wrong then one of laurentus/vro replaces one of you three.
But I don't think that's legit, I think it's within you three.

[hollowkatt]

anyways, I'm off to go paint my house, I'll check back in later

[Winston Hughes]

I'm not going to do either of those things.
Remember my post about clears? if that post is accurate wolves + Sk are you, dolby, and borg in some order.
If that post is wrong then one of laurentus/vro replaces one of you three.
But I don't think that's legit, I think it's within you three.

Yeah, but I'm not a villain.

And you're not really acting as if I might be.

You're just kinda saying it.

[Winston Hughes]

I will bus, I will bus early, often, and if it suits my purposes I will bus my entire team and win off of that credit.

This wasn't that kind of game, though, was it?

Tim's death shook everything up in way you couldn't predict.

It's all well and good saying what you'd do in a hypothetical.

But this was a closed set-up, with no team having perfect information.

Actual bussing (as opposed to careful distancing) loses nearly all of its value here.

[Laurentus]

Borg's lying. Re-reading the flavor and flips is actually incredibly helpful.

He shouldn't be a tracker and there's no way he tracked Tim, the wolf kills are factional according to Tim's flip.

Vote: BorgPicard

Vro, I need help here.

[Winston Hughes]

The worst thing for hk and borg about these recent exchanges is that neither of them looks like they've actually been working this stuff through from a townie perspective.

It's like they're behind the curve, and are giving impressions of how a townie might see the gamestate here, without fully understanding it.

[Winston Hughes]

I mean, I think they understand the gamestate better than us townies, but they're struggling to see how it looks to us.

[Winston Hughes]

Can't fake what you don't understand.

[Laurentus]

Vro, by "factional" do you mean that the Wolf team decides collectively to kill someone, and that person dies without one of them having to carry the kill?

And I'm very confused about why a tracker is implausible to you.

[Winston Hughes]

This game is now 19% of my total posts at the org, which after 11+ years and ~30 games is pretty insane.

Got to try and clear that 20...

[Vroendal]

Vro, by "factional" do you mean that the Wolf team decides collectively to kill someone, and that person dies without one of them having to carry the kill?

And I'm very confused about why a tracker is implausible to you.

That's what I've heard it as.
A tracker isn't completely implausible, but if Factional means what I think it does, then the tracker would only exist to see other scum possible scum actions and the SK visit, which feels a little imbalanced when there are town PR's that would be difficult to differentiate from scum visits. BP is claiming to have tracked Tim N1, I assume to c4, but if the kill really is factional, then he's straight-up lying. There's no listed ability for Tim, so I assume the only way he would be visiting c4 so that BP's alleged tracker ability would see him is if Tim was carrying the kill.

Unless I'm wrong about what factional means here, in which case, oof, but I'm pretty sure BP is just bad here anyway.

[Vroendal]

Tim's flip states:
"The Mafia choose someone to kill at night. Kills are factional, and therefore not assigned (will not interfere with individual abilities)."

Not assigned sounds pretty specific to me, how else would you interpret it?

[Winston Hughes]

Given the complexity of the other power roles, and the fine balance of the whole situation, does Monty ever just plop a town tracker in this game?

It's so crass and uninteresting.

[Winston Hughes]

Tracker would be horribly swingy here.

[hollowkatt]

case me then winston. If you're so sure I'm wolfing here quote my posts that indicate that, with analysis that shows you're thinking this through. Bet you can't tho

[Laurentus]

I think my point still stands. yesterday was the day to chop me, there will never be another day to chop me.


Tim's flip states:
"The Mafia choose someone to kill at night. Kills are factional, and therefore not assigned (will not interfere with individual abilities)."

Not assigned sounds pretty specific to me, how else would you interpret it?

Yeah, the "not assigned" part leaves very little room for doubt.

Okay, the next thing we need to square away: Borg is either SK or scum, which do we judge more likely?

For me the answer is a clear

Vote: Borg

[Laurentus]

case me then winston. If you're so sure I'm wolfing here quote my posts that indicate that, with analysis that shows you're thinking this through. Bet you can't tho

I'd start with literally quoting one of my posts where you see I say we don't chop the SK today, and then somehow progress to "you're trying to mischop me today."

[Laurentus]

re dolby: no, I am pointing out where you're wrong. idgaf if you're swayed or not, you asked me why I posted what I did, I'm answering. One of the reasons I sus you is b/c you're wrong on things, or leaving things out.
And yeah, I'm claiming lack of progression on you.

I do realize changing reads are a thing, but like this shift from "you're not dying today" to "you must die today" is jarring, bad, and I told you so yesterday
I was topping peoples SK list yesterday, with at least one "hk is a wolf" out there. Objectively yesterday was 100% the correct day to resolve me if you're going to chop me. NOW you have to actually chop a wolf IF you are town and your push here smells a lot like "wolves need one mischop to win and HK is it"

Actually, where did I say you had to die today?

[Winston Hughes]

case me then winston.

I already have.


If you're so sure I'm wolfing here quote my posts that indicate that, with analysis that shows you're thinking this through. Bet you can't tho

This is exactly how I protect myself as scum. Because, like you, I'm really good at faking that townie tone, avoiding obvious errors, and generally riding the threadflow in a way that feels superficially convincing while nudging things where I want them to go.

The point isn't that this post or that post is scummy in itself. The point is that you've come in pushing angles that don't fit with where your mind ought to be if you were actually town.

Picking the policy bit when borg had just dropped a weaksauce investigative claim was just yuck.

[Winston Hughes]

It's running interference.

Just like on d1.

[Laurentus]

Can we activate Voltron now?

[Winston Hughes]

I come back to the same question I started with:

Is there a world in which hk and dobly are actually scumbuddies?

[Laurentus]

I come back to the same question I started with:

Is there a world in which hk and dobly are actually scumbuddies?

I started this day out thinking that the only team HK could be a part of was that one. I don't recall why I thought it.

[Laurentus]

I started this day out thinking that the only team HK could be a part of was that one. I don't recall why I thought it.

But regardless, between Borg and HK, who do we think is the SK?

[Laurentus]

Although, it is worth pointing out, Winston, that HK really wants it to seem like he is out for Dolby's blood if they are indeed paired. Do you think HK busses here?

[Vroendal]

Yeah, the "not assigned" part leaves very little room for doubt.

Okay, the next thing we need to square away: Borg is either SK or scum, which do we judge more likely?

For me the answer is a clear

Vote: Borg

I'm not sure Lau. On the one hand, BP's claim pushing away from voting Dolby (setting Dolby up as the SK) is very telling, but on the other hand, wouldn't scum know not to fake something like tracking Tim? Maybe they forgot/didn't see that the factional part was revealed?

I'm going to be gone again for a while, I'll think it over, but I'm pretty convinced it's SK HK and scumteam BP/Dolby.

[BorgPicard]

Yeah, the "not assigned" part leaves very little room for doubt.

Okay, the next thing we need to square away: Borg is either SK or scum, which do we judge more likely?

For me the answer is a clear

Vote: Borg

I don't care if you want me out, but please don't vote on my wagon, as I am trying not to kill you.

[Winston Hughes]

But regardless, between Borg and HK, who do we think is the SK?

If it had to be one of the two?

I think hk.

There's been a joy there that fits with my own experiences of playing sk - that sweet combo of genuine scumhunting and utter villainy.

I'm still not letting go of the Dolby hypothesis, though.

[Laurentus]

I don't care if you want me out, but please don't vote on my wagon, as I am trying not to kill you.

Why do you have to AtE so well, damn you, lol. How do you explain Vro's catch that the scum team doesn't kill targets individually, and square that with your claim that you caught Tim in the act? Like, with the sincerity of your tone here, it sounds like you're the SK, but you can't convince me you're Town.

[Winston Hughes]

Although, it is worth pointing out, Winston, that HK really wants it to seem like he is out for Dolby's blood if they are indeed paired. Do you think HK busses here?

You mean today?

[Laurentus]

You mean today?



Are you asking if I'm asking if HK busses today?

[BorgPicard]

Why do you have to AtE so well, damn you, lol. How do you explain Vro's catch that the scum team doesn't kill targets individually, and square that with your claim that you caught Tim in the act? Like, with the sincerity of your tone here, it sounds like you're the SK, but you can't convince me you're Town.

Well if you let HK, Winston and Vro be the only ones on my wagon then the next night will be clearer

[Laurentus]

Fuck this game. :wall: :dizzy2: :laugh4:

[Winston Hughes]

Are you asking if I'm asking if HK busses today?

Are you asking if I'm asking if you're asking if HK busses today?

[Laurentus]

I'm back to being paranoid about everything except Csar, lol, so I think I'm'a step away for a bit.

[Laurentus]

Are you asking if I'm asking if you're asking if HK busses today?

Jesus, lol, let me just make it clearer: do you think HK busses Dolby today?

[Winston Hughes]

Fuck this game. :wall: :dizzy2: :laugh4:


https://media3.giphy.com/media/7pLv68ItwBaHS/200.gif

:bow:

[Winston Hughes]

Jesus, lol, let me just make it clearer: do you think HK busses Dolby today?

No idea.

:laugh4:

[Winston Hughes]

I mean, probably...

Maybe...

I could be convinced...

But on the other hand...

Welcome to my world. :sweatdrop:

[hollowkatt]

I already have.



This is exactly how I protect myself as scum. Because, like you, I'm really good at faking that townie tone, avoiding obvious errors, and generally riding the threadflow in a way that feels superficially convincing while nudging things where I want them to go.

The point isn't that this post or that post is scummy in itself. The point is that you've come in pushing angles that don't fit with where your mind ought to be if you were actually town.

Picking the policy bit when borg had just dropped a weaksauce investigative claim was just yuck.

your meta on me is wrong lol. I get caught as wolf on tone and weird posts way more than I get away with them. In fact, I've been D1 caught on tone within 5 posts of starting the game before.

If we're trusting Laurentus as clear, and vro as clear via laurentus and the derp conversation then there is no angle. Wolves + SK are in you, dolby, borg. Like there's no arguing otherwise.
The only way to argue otherwise is to either remove yourself and insert me (as you have to do if you're a wolf or SK here) OR insert one of Laurentus/Vro, right? There are no other worlds

[Winston Hughes]

What chance we figure out exactly the right chop order, but Csar got trapped in his basement and we lose anyway?

:anxious:

[Winston Hughes]

There are no other worlds

So why do you feel so limp?

If town, you should have the bit between your teeth.

Why don't I feel under pressure here?

[hollowkatt]

I'm back to being paranoid about everything except Csar, lol, so I think I'm'a step away for a bit.

Do you still believe in your Vro clear?
If you do the path forward is transparent: chop within myself, winston, dolby, borg all the time every time.
If you're town and vro is town and csargo is town you've got a 50% chance than any player in that group chosen at random is going to be a wolf.

Going down that path the votes that make the most sense are dolby and borg. I make the least sense (though you may think winston makes the least sense and honestly whatever I guess). Then Winston.

[Winston Hughes]

You keep telling Laurentus what to do.

That's not townie.

You should be telling me what to do.

[Winston Hughes]

It's not solving, it's manipulation.

[hollowkatt]

So why do you feel so limp?

If town, you should have the bit between your teeth.

Why don't I feel under pressure here?

because between you dolby and borg I think you're the least likely to flip wolf

[hollowkatt]

You keep telling Laurentus what to do.

That's not townie.

You should be telling me what to do.

idc what you do though, as long as it isn't chopping me and isn't chopping in laurentus/vro. Laurentus otoh I'm fighting with b/c he's SK reading me which means that I know for sure that his world view is at least somewhat incorrect. If I can convince him I'm not SK/not Wolf I think town can win this thing.
If I can't convince him of that there's more thread inertia to chop me which is guaranteed town loss.

[Winston Hughes]

because between you dolby and borg I think you're the least likely to flip wolf

But if town you don't know.

And that's exactly the problem here.

It feels like you do know.

[Winston Hughes]

Got to pay my respect.

You've faked it beautifully, hk.

And if I didn't know what I know about the game state, I'd totally have fallen for it.

But today it's all just been a bit weak.

As a townie right here, you'd have had more fire in the solving.

[Winston Hughes]

Hardest days to fake are the first and the last.

[Winston Hughes]

Paranoia: unless you've worked the mechanics to make yourself seem clear

Sanity: :tnt:

[hollowkatt]

like ok, think about it this way b/c I'm not seeing critical thinking skills being used.
IF I'm chopped and flip town where are the wolves/SK?
It can't be csargo at all.
If pzelda clearing Laurentus can be believed it's not him. Laurentus is clearing Vro and why would wolf laurentus do that?

That literally leaves winston/dolby/borg. That's the solve.
What I don't know yet is which one is the SK.
I think Dolby/Borg are the most likely wolves, Winston is most likely SK. If that world is incorrect it's Borg SK with Dolby/Winston wolves.

The only world I'm entertaining today is the one where dolby/borg/winston are not town

[hollowkatt]

But if town you don't know.

And that's exactly the problem here.

It feels like you do know.

You're right, I don't know which of the three of you is the SK and who are the wolves. All I know is by the clears we've been given the three of you ARE the anti-town factions.

The only way this is wrong is if one of Laurentus/Vro is a bad guy, right?
So sure, you swap yourself out for me and have a POE of Dolby/Borg/HK, fine. Who of Borg/Dolby are you most interested in killing today?

[Winston Hughes]

like ok, think about it this way b/c I'm not seeing critical thinking skills being used.
IF I'm chopped and flip town where are the wolves/SK?
It can't be csargo at all.
If pzelda clearing Laurentus can be believed it's not him. Laurentus is clearing Vro and why would wolf laurentus do that?

That literally leaves winston/dolby/borg. That's the solve.
What I don't know yet is which one is the SK.
I think Dolby/Borg are the most likely wolves, Winston is most likely SK. If that world is incorrect it's Borg SK with Dolby/Winston wolves.

The only world I'm entertaining today is the one where dolby/borg/winston are not town

The position you're presenting is entirely reasonable as an idea of how townyou might see it, intellectually.

But your emotional response just isn't believable.

And that's the hardest thing to fake in a moment like this.

[Winston Hughes]

Who of Borg/Dolby are you most interested in killing today?

The one that's teamed with you.

[Winston Hughes]

The difference between us is that I have no interest in trying to convince you of anything, because I know you're a villain.

You're acting as if I'm someone who might yet be won over.

[Winston Hughes]

If town, you ought to be feeling like you've got me.

And borg.

But nothing you've done suggests that.

[hollowkatt]

The position you're presenting is entirely reasonable as an idea of how townyou might see it, intellectually.

But your emotional response just isn't believable.

And that's the hardest thing to fake in a moment like this.

there is no emotional response, there is only cold, hard, logic. maybe that's what you're picking up, that I'm not emotionally invested. And that's true, I'm not. This game is a puzzle to be solved, not a battle to be won.
I'm not trying to fake anything. I'm presenting, as best I can, the world I think exists.

[Winston Hughes]

there is no emotional response, there is only cold, hard, logic. maybe that's what you're picking up, that I'm not emotionally invested. And that's true, I'm not. This game is a puzzle to be solved, not a battle to be won.
I'm not trying to fake anything. I'm presenting, as best I can, the world I think exists.

There are always emotions.

No level of human rationality overcomes them.

[hollowkatt]

The difference between us is that I have no interest in trying to convince you of anything, because I know you're a villain.

You're acting as if I'm someone who might yet be won over.
I'm not at all but lol ok.
I'm voting dolby today and parking there. Whatever you wanna do go ahead and do it.

[hollowkatt]

There are always emotions.

No level of human rationality overcomes them.

https://i.imgur.com/FkDYvnr.png

[Laurentus]

If my Vro read is right, and I really think it is, one of you is the best damned liar I've ever seen.

[Winston Hughes]

This is the sweet spot. All in the balance. Do or die. Everything on the chop.

How does the hk who loves vanilla towning not feel invigorated by this shit right here?

[Csargo]

I'll try to iso later today tomorrow, I probably won't be around a bunch today. I'm at Borg/Dolby/Vroe/HK from what I remember.