17er Saints and Martyrs

[Jan]

vote: Syn

[Jan]

Should be around between now and EoD if people feel like faking work or having fun.

[dyachei]

We're never voting him today but Ladd is missing a bunch of villager notes for me. And I don't want to Elim logic because everyone always thinks he's wolfy

[dyachei]

Ar tics reads have been so static this game but people don't want to vote him. He hasn't really had a lot of original thoughts too and that's weird for him

[GeneralHankerchief]

kinda enjoying the concept of this morning EOD

wake up, roll into work, lunch a villager, go about my day without the sword of damocles hanging over me for the rest of it

maybe I should move to Australia

[Jan]

Ar tics reads have been so static this game but people don't want to vote him. He hasn't really had a lot of original thoughts too and that's weird for him

The 2nd half of the game day was mostly an unfun tunnel and everybody involved left that dirty with slight points for emotional overcharge.

[dyachei]

The 2nd half of the game day was mostly an unfun tunnel and everybody involved left that dirty with slight points for emotional overcharge.

It hasn't just been the second half of the game. He's been unwilling to re evaluate all game

[dyachei]

I'm not really interested in elimming syn either because I've seen him do this shit as a villager before. No one says why it's wolfy for him to not engage they just vote him

I do wish he would do more but I don't really think he's a hit

[Jan]

I'm not really interested in elimming syn either because I've seen him do this shit as a villager before. No one says why it's wolfy for him to not engage they just vote him

I do wish he would do more but I don't really think he's a hit

Rask was fairly convinced and has not said anything different.
Rask was as confident last game we played and both times claimed to have a very accurate read within a post or two.

Last game visor confirmed it right away which makes him ignoring it mostly here is a bad look. (it was a village read last time and a wolfread here).

But he goes on murska instead who I think is a possible partner, but killing a possible partner first is simply stupid.

[GeneralHankerchief]

sup Wisdom

where's your head at right now

[Jan]

sup Wisdom

where's your head at right now

This is not the droid you were looking for?!

[GeneralHankerchief]

This is not the droid you were looking for?!

they thanked one of my posts from a few minutes ago, figured I might as well invite them in for a proper conversation

(#50 but cap is lifting in 5 minutes)

[Wisdom]

sup Wisdom

where's your head at right now

Leaving for class in 5 and will miss EoD

I'm kinda vibing with what's being said about Arctic and Syn.
That leaves Visor/Murska/Vanta/Jan/Hally/Gemma
Wouldn't bet that all 4 wolves are in those 6 but probably 2-3
Kinda wanna take out Jan for no good reason and whoever Ladd just defended, I vibed with that.

I don't like that Visor and Hally haven't gotten a lot of focus, but I haven't seen anything AI either (Visor calling me hard to read for once should be NAI even if it feels wolfy).

[dyachei]

jan no offense, but that's the lamest reason to not vote someone I've ever heard. And I've played with people who have voted mech cleared villagers

if arctic is being wolfy now just vote them now. Don't wait for them to continue being wolfy

[Jan]

We're never voting him today but Ladd is missing a bunch of villager notes for me. And I don't want to Elim logic because everyone always thinks he's wolfy

People I don't want to kill for reasons:
Ender
Wisdom
Raskolnikov
Dyachei
Logic
Ladd
Jan
Zack
Hally
Benneh

People I am willing to talk about:
Visor
Arctic
Vanta Black
GH
Gemma

People I want:
Syn
Murska

I can see Ladds point on Murska. Not convinced because I think he is reading a playstyle as alignment. (the not here to make friends part)
But I have been focused on the slot with rather negative energy and prefer looking/talking about anywhere else right now.

[dyachei]

People I don't want to kill for reasons:
Ender
Wisdom
Raskolnikov
Dyachei
Logic
Ladd
Jan
Zack
Hally
Benneh

People I am willing to talk about:
Visor
Arctic
Vanta Black
GH
Gemma

People I want:
Syn
Murska

I can see Ladds point on Murska. Not convinced because I think he is reading a playstyle as alignment. (the not here to make friends part)
But I have been focused on the slot with rather negative energy and prefer looking/talking about anywhere else right now.

Talk about arctic

[Jan]

Talk about arctic

Not sure how much I can say.

His first half of the day was fumbling any ball he could find and the 2nd half was the two of you yelling at each other.

I don't get a good read on people tunneling each other. it is somewhat easy to show frustration and emotion there because it is simply real as either alignment and taints most of it.

I think the first half felt like bait for wolves and the early thread pressure on him kind of mirrored that impression.
I think murskas thing earlier felt like w!murska is spewing arctic.

And I don't want to talk down the work he has done but my brain has not fully comprehended everything during this gameday and when the fight started I very much started glancing over the posts because I did not want to get involved.
Werewolfgames don't need to be cagefights in my book.

[GeneralHankerchief]

agree with dya on Syn (mostly; Syn could be a hit but it's basically a rand chance imo)

agree with Jan on Arctic. not super interested in going there today, and if Arctic's having a hard time with developing his reads as mafia now, my guess is he's going to continue having a hard time doing so in the future so it should be an easy catch

I am ~kinda here for the next 15-20 minutes trying to plow through my morning dailies at work but should be in full gear by the time eod proper rolls around

(#48)

[Jan]

agree with dya on Syn (mostly; Syn could be a hit but it's basically a rand chance imo)

I don't see the downside with syn at the moment.

The reaction "lame" felt like somebody folding a bad hand.
If syn is a villager and what we got so far is what we will get all game then I don't mind being wrong. Or rather it is worth the risk I am willing to take.

It is not fancy but d1 almost always comes down to this.

[Raskolnikov]

People I don't want to kill for reasons:
Ender
Wisdom
Raskolnikov
Dyachei
Logic
Ladd
Jan
Zack
Hally
Benneh

People I am willing to talk about:
Visor
Arctic
Vanta Black
GH
Gemma

People I want:
Syn
Murska

I can see Ladds point on Murska. Not convinced because I think he is reading a playstyle as alignment. (the not here to make friends part)
But I have been focused on the slot with rather negative energy and prefer looking/talking about anywhere else right now.

Talk to me about that one

[Totally not Taffy]

Please stop posting, final vote count inc.

[Totally not Taffy]

Final Vote Count

Syn (7) : Ender, Ladd, Jan, Raskolnikov, GH, Arctic, Murska
Logic (3) : Hally, Benneh, Vanta
Murska (2) : Visor, Gemma
Gemma (1) : Dyachei
GH (1) : Zack
Ender (1) : Syn
Vanta (1) : Logic
Visor (1) : Wisdom


Vote History
If you made a vote that wasn't counted, please link it to me on discord

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

vote: Arctic

vote: Arctic

vote: nebjiamn

Vote: Logic

Vote: logic

Vote: Logic

vote: logic

vote: Visor

Vote: Jan

Vote: EnderWiggin

vote: Raskolnikov

Vote: GH

Vote: Arctic

vote: Enderwiggin

vote: dyachei

vote: EnderWiggin

Vote: GH

Vote: vanta black

Vote: Jan

Vote: Syn

Vote: Syn

Vote: Syn

Vote: Abstain

vote: syn

vote: Arctic

vote: GH

vote: arctic

unvote: Arctic

vote: arctic

Vote: Ender

vote Vanta

Vote: GH

Vote: Logic

vote: logic

Vote: Gemma

Vote: murska

Vote: logic

Vote: Visor

Vote: Murska

vote: Logic

Vote: Murska

vote: Syn

Vote: Gemma

vote: gemma

Vote: Syn

Vote: Logic

Vote: Syn

vote: Syn

Vote: Syn

Post Counts

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Stand by for flip and flavour.

[Totally not Taffy]

How tf is there another character called "Moist"?!

Vote Count

Visor (4) : Raskolnikov, Wisdom, Benneh, Hally
Dyachei (1) : Logic
Logic (1) : Dyachei
Arctic (1) : Ender

Haven't voted: Visor, Murska, Arctic, Ladd, Vanta, Jan, GH, Gemma

Haven't posted today: Gemma, Visor

Vote History
If you made a vote that wasn't counted, please link it to me on discord

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Vote: Visor

Vote: Visor

Vote: Dya

Vote: Visor

vote: visor

vote: logic

Vote: Arctic

Post Counts

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

EoD1 post counts for easy math:

This is 3am. You're all spoiled, and you owe me flowers.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Following up, I've read/reread Ender's d2 posts from a few hours ago and they seem decent enough to me, not gonna move him up a tier in my reads but don't really have any interest in moving him down either.

Onto responses to my big post:

Does your read on me really boil down to you expected me to.make a tone read on you after 3 years of not playing games with you or even seeing you around much at all?

I think that's a pretty unreasonable expectation.

21/50

No. It is an aspect of it. It is not the full picture, but it is part of the picture. If you genuinely came away from that post with that thought that that aspect was the main crux of my case against you, I apologize, that was not my intent. It was a combination of that + me not fully believing your turnaround on Logic using the stated reasoning + my belief that there's one in you/Visor and, yes, perhaps me giving Visor somewhat of the benefit of the doubt as benneh mentioned + general POE stuff (which also plays a part in me thinking there's exactly one in you/Visor and not just the both of you being v/v, because then who are the wolves lol).

idt much needs to be rocked today. by my estimation, the lunch is ~always between visor and logic and i am a big fan of those wagons (moreso visor atm). but i also don't think this is accurate? dare i say i was the person who first started clearing and building what is now the accepted towncore for the game in rask/jan/ladd(and previously zack) and even hally a bit

i also pushed on you and i think you'd probly agree regardless of ur alignment that's not a 'don't rock the boat' push for anyone in this list


as for the rest of your list i don't really get why you're leaning dya over visor here even though i read your whys. i feel like ur stuck on something with them that probably doesn't matter but ur giving visor the benefit of the doubt* when i think he deserves it far less than dya rn?

*i know you're not actually giving visor 'the benefit of the doubt' since you called that dichotomy to have a wolf but i hope my point is clear

I'll admit that I did not concentrate on the "big part in building the towncore" aspect of your posts when going back over your stuff (and I don't want to do it now because I've already spent too much time as it is going back over stuff), so I'll straight up give you THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT on that one. However, in terms of the "pushing GH not being a 'don't rock the boat' example", I'm gonna push back on that - I started catching heat to various degrees shortly after I actually started playing this game for real and I was quite pushable for a good period of time back in 2020/21 even before I stopped playing. You may not be aware of this, but others itg (ladd, hally, probably dya?) can attest to as much.

As for giving Visor the benefit of the doubt, probably fair. Zack/me getting as heated as it did on d1 did shake me up a bit and it's probably spilling over. I'll see how he posts once he comes back and go from there.

[EnderWiggin]

Wild change of mind time.

We veering at 360 speeds on this road.

Vote: Gemma

So I was rereading D1 to get a feel of Arctic (And hopefully a case) when I started reading Gemma posts and have now decided that her townreading me when I was feeling attacked has meant I've ignored her slot probably more than I should've?

[EnderWiggin]

Gemma/ender i also have as not aligned iirc

Wild change of mind time.

We veering at 360 speeds on this road.

Vote: Gemma

So I was rereading D1 to get a feel of Arctic (And hopefully a case) when I started reading Gemma posts and have now decided that her townreading me when I was feeling attacked has meant I've ignored her slot probably more than I should've?

Gemma vote is partially because of these posts. I figured I should probably post these instead of just naked changing votes.

I lied I found another sequence that I think is actually clearing.

Also yes included Ladd's note because all his associative reads have been proven correct this game so far. =P

[dyachei]

so why are you giving visor benefit of the doubt while you assume I should be able to tone read you this far out

My turn around on logic was because zack died repping a very strong wolf read there and my reason for v reading you was not the strongest reason to begin with, though I did believe it day 1.

I've done a lot more than visor has that should make me readable

22/50

[GeneralHankerchief]

so why are you giving visor benefit of the doubt while you assume I should be able to tone read you this far out

My turn around on logic was because zack died repping a very strong wolf read there and my reason for v reading you was not the strongest reason to begin with, though I did believe it day 1.

I've done a lot more than visor has that should make me readable

22/50

re: visor, the BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT stuff is mostly social stuff that I feel kind of icky getting into, but let's do it anyway

you and I are friends, we've been friends for some time and keep in touch with each other over Discord occasionally despite my departure from MU. Life updates, wine memes, cute shots of Amy and Calvin, that sort of thing, a few times a year.

Visor and I are friends too but he and I regularly chat frequently just shooting the shit. I'm not saying I consider him to be a better friend than you (or the reverse), it's just that due to circumstances (active mutual Discord servers) he and I interact way more frequently than you and I do. Of this playerlist, the only person I chat with on a more regular basis than Visor is Zack. There's a big gap between those two and benneh, then another big gap to you, and then Logic, then everybody else.

The reason I bring all of this up is just because of how d1 went down, there's gonna be some postgame debrief between Zack and myself centered around Logic as well as other stuff. We didn't end d1 on a good note and with him dying there's no chance to rectify it ITT. I don't want to have to do that twice to the only other person ITG I talk to remotely as frequently as Zack - Visor - and get the read wrong there. So yes, I'm somewhat tiptoeing around Visor. I have the two of you on the same tier of suspicion and that is part of the reason why I'm currently leaning you over Visor, because I don't want to go there unless I'm sure to save myself some postgame regret. The tone read stuff you mentioned doesn't really come to play with the specific "benefit of the doubt" argument.

I have roughly 35 hours to make a final decision on this matter. It is not especially relevant if I'm leaning one way or the other currently. You both will post more between now and EOD and I will judge them accordingly.

---

As for your stated turnaround on Logic, I get what you're saying, but I feel like there are a number of reasons why Zack could have died last night as discussed here, and it felt like you just kind of plowed ahead with your reasoning without even acknowledging the what-I-find-to-be-very-plausible alternatives, which conveniently shoves me near the bottom of your POE. And let's be real here, if you're a wolf, you know I'm a mislunch you HAVE to have unless you've got a deep partner.

(inb4 "I could say the same about you" - yes, you could! isn't mafia fun! )

[Totally not Taffy]

Thank you, thank you!

Vote Count

Visor (4) : Raskolnikov, Wisdom, Benneh, Hally
Dyachei (1) : Logic
Logic (1) : Dyachei
Gemma (1) : Ender

Haven't voted: Visor, Murska, Arctic, Ladd, Vanta, Jan, GH, Gemma


Vote History
If you made a vote that wasn't counted, please link it to me on discord

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Vote: Visor

Vote: Visor

Vote: Dya

Vote: Visor

vote: visor

vote: logic

Vote: Arctic

Vote: Gemma

Post Counts

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

EoD1 post counts for easy math:

The 36-hour vote count will be delayed bc I'll be driving to the airport at that time.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Vote: Gemma

out with it