LotR - OOC Thread and Chatroom 2 [Archive] - Page 10

Ramses II CP

11-28-2008, 16:00

Happy birthday Cecil. :egypt:

On another note I'd like to restate the impact of not having your avatar present at the Magnaura physically.

This takes away from the tension and interaction opportunities and drops the intensity levels A LOT.

This session has been pedestrian at best, and while I can also be criticized for that, I firmly believe TOO many of you are not making yourselves present at the event.

Please take this into consideration gentlemen.

I know this is directed at me, but truth be told I'm simply at the point of being bored with LotR right now. V's stand against attending the Magnaura was developed IC and fully fleshed out, it isn't a casual reflection of my growing disinterest. I can't bring myself to seriously campaign for Megas because, frankly, I don't want to be Megas. It doesn't fit the character or my level of interest.

I'm not asking for a round of 'please don't go' either, I'm just frustrated that I abandoned the Fatamid/Aliya/Rafi story arc I'd planned out for V when the civil war began, did all I could to prepare for a fight, and only then discovered that there wasn't actually a civil war and no one wanted a fight anyway. There's a great group of guys here and I love the idea of this game, but AI battles in SS 4.1 are so much worse than vanilla I'm actively driven to avoid them and "IC" I'm somewhat trapped by the fact that I've chosen to play, essentially, a good guy. When the civil war ends he's going to retire to the hinterlands like the rest of the Order and just wait around to die.

I doubt I have the patience to sit that out, nevermind that 90% of the game's avatars are literally sitting in the same spot they were at the last Magnaura session. :laugh4:

Anyway, I'm going out of town (But not out of touch) for the weekend to see some family. Before the voting starts I'll make some kind of decision so no one wastes a vote on V. Sorry for venting. :oops:

:egypt:

AussieGiant

11-28-2008, 17:15

No problem Ramses.

Thanks for the honest and direct appraisal. I can't help but also take some of what you said on board. In a good way.

Have a nice weekend mate.

Ramses II CP

11-29-2008, 08:25

I'm going to take some 'time off' from LotR during the holidays, though I'll probably keep up with the board. Hopefully I'll be back recharged and ready for a new character in January. :yes:

Vissa should be killed off at the GM's earliest discretion.

This shouldn't be taken in any way as a complaint about the way people have chosen to play their characters! There have definitely been some fun times in LotR but I've simply lost the thread of it with my current avatar, and frankly I'd rather he was dead than parked in a city somewhere waiting for his magic number to come up.

Best of luck to everyone. :2thumbsup:

:egypt:

TinCow

11-29-2008, 16:18

I expected to have internet access while away during this time, but that has not turned out to be the case. I have managed to purloin a computer for a few minutes just to post this. I will not be online until I return from my current trip on Sunday evening, EST. I do not have time to read any posts or PMs right now and any questions will have to wait until then.

As I am unsure of the state in the Magnaura, I will simply delegate my powers to others to figure out what to do with the current Senate session. GH has the authority to extend the current Magnaura session if more time is needed. If the session does not need to be extended, Andres or anyone who has served as Megas in KotR or Chancellor in LotR can announce the close of the debate period and can post the voting threads. 48 hours must be provided for voting, and I will be back before that expires to take care of the tallies, etc.

I'll deal with everything else when I get home.

Ibn-Khaldun

11-29-2008, 16:42

Megas in KotR or Chancellor in LotR

Perhaps the other way around? :beam:

GeneralHankerchief

11-30-2008, 06:01

KnightnDay

11-30-2008, 17:40

I hope you will pardon this intrusion of a new member, but I was very interested in your game here. I tried loading the Stainless Steel 4.1 version but ran into a CTD with some error messages that seem to happen to several people.

The TW center seems little help since they're all talking version 6.1 that's compatible with Kingdoms which I don't have and with all my searching I've never seen a definitive answer for how to fix this. In my system log, the error message is:

10:54:21.515 [script.err] [error] Script Error in Stainless_Steel_Mod/data/export_descr_character_traits.txt, at line 1910, column 11
Could'n find level name description string for trait(ImpHatched) level(ImpHatched).
10:54:21.515 [script.err] [error] Script Error in Stainless_Steel_Mod/data/export_descr_character_traits.txt, at line 1911, column 21
Could'n find description string for trait(ImpHatched) level(ImpHatched_desc).
10:54:21.515 [script.err] [error] Script Error in Stainless_Steel_Mod/data/export_descr_character_traits.txt, at line 1912, column 28
Could'n find effect description string for trait(ImpHatched) level(ImpHatched_effects_desc).
10:54:21.546 [game.script] [error] Condition parsing error in Stainless_Steel_Mod/data/export_descr_character_traits.txt, at line 14341, column 49
trigger not found
11:00:44.656 [system.rpt] [error] Medieval 2: Total War encountered an unspecified error and will now exit.

I can update files if I just know what to update. It would be a great help if someone could answer this. As it stands, the mod is pretty useless to me without a fix to this.

Thanks in advance.

Northnovas

11-30-2008, 21:23

Just to clarify the CTD occurred loading 4.1 on to the computer and not playing?

KnightnDay

12-01-2008, 00:49

Actually got it to work, the SS version 4.0 download I got incorporates the mod Blood, Broads, & Bastards version 2.0 that was developed last year. They recently released an updated version of BBB that works with SS Version 6.1. I was able to replace the bugged text file with this newer version. Now no issues. Hopefully none of you had experienced this issue.

Thanks!

Northnovas

12-01-2008, 01:41

Glad to hear you got it resolved! I hope you will join us in our game.

TinCow

12-01-2008, 03:34

Gah, just saw this. Consider the session extended for 12 hours, probably a little less. I'll see how things are going and make a final decision at that time.

I'm back now and while still a bit busy, I'll take a look at the Magnaura in the morning and get the situation sorted out. Sorry for the delays, guys, hopefully we'll get back to a normal pace soon.

KnightnDay: Glad you were able to get your problem sorted out. If you'd like to join, there are currently 2 family members that are unassigned: Ammonathas Kalameteros (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2071149&postcount=37) and Leon Symmachos (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2071154&postcount=38). We can also spawn a selection of recruitable generals for you to choose from, if neither of those fellows interests you.

TinCow

12-01-2008, 21:36

I have now reviewed the Magnaura session and have decided to extend it indefinitely. I am irked by the very low level of activity in this game lately. The Senate has been in session for a week now, and we're at less than 40 posts for the entire session. Given that this should be a time for a lot of discussion, it does not bode well for the game.

I have also been notified that Ignoramus is away and will not be able to play the game until the 8th of December. As the Megas election is currently between the Basileus and Savvas' dog, it seems likely that ending the Session now would just result in a further delay in the game (which is not meant to be a slight on Blacky's prospects in the vote). Ignoramus did specify two other people who could play as Megas for him while he was gone, but both of them are also going to be away and will not be able to take the game. So, if we're going to be sitting on our hands for a while, I'd prefer to do it in a Senate Session where people are free to actively do things, rather than a frozen game where nothing can occur.

Apologies for the delay, but under the circumstances I don't see a better option. I am hoping that this slowdown will be temporary and will disappear after the busy holiday season is over.

The Senate Session of 1170 AD is hereby extended until further notice.

Ituralde

12-02-2008, 09:19

For me it has been a slow decline due to inactivity. It's just not motivating if half your House is no longer there to interact with. It always raises the bar for me to start new stories when I'm not sure they'll ever get finished or go somewhere. I have reached some final stage with Pavlos currently and just wait for his death now.

I hope with a new Senator I will get motivated again to develop its own story arch. I already have some ideas, so it might just be fun! :2thumbsup:

pevergreen

12-02-2008, 15:33

I did what I could with such a minor character to start something.

The entrance bit was inspired by https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRNwYpqbttI&feature=related

Favourite game :twothumbsup:

Alerion

12-02-2008, 19:41

TinCow

12-02-2008, 20:50

Well I don't know how far I am to blame for the decline. I tried what I could with my character but frankly I'm still confused about what to do. Since I am new to the game I have been thrown into a civil war and some decisions without knowing what was really going on ingame, like choosing a house and stuff like this...

It looks to me like it might be a good time to try and start new Houses. Many of the old ones have lost a lot of appeal and credibility. There are currently many Senators who used to be loyal to a House, but have since left and not returned. That probably means that they don't like the old structures and might be open to the creation of new ones. Make some friends, start a House of your own, and perhaps you will one day rule the Empire! :2thumbsup:

Ituralde

12-03-2008, 21:43

AussieGiant, Apionnas CA should be 7.2, since 7.1 is the one Pavlos proposed. Just to avoid confusion with the seconders! :2thumbsup:

AussieGiant

12-04-2008, 14:20

Cool.

I'll change it again. :2thumbsup:

TinCow

12-04-2008, 14:52

As noted previously, I will be gone from this afternoon until Saturday evening EST. I do not expect to be online while I am gone. I doubt there will be any problems while I am absent, but just in case, GH will act in my place for LotR until I return. Please consult Andres if you have a more general moderator issue that cannot wait.

GeneralHankerchief

12-04-2008, 15:42

Okay, I'm buckling down with work today and won't be able to advance things, but I'll still be online probably. Tomorrow, we'll see if the Neverending Session is ready for a vote.

AussieGiant

12-04-2008, 16:14

Evening all,

Just a quick note to say I'll be in New York for vacation from the 5th to the 15th of December. I don't expect to be active at all due to NYC distraction levels being extremely high!! :balloon2:

Take it easy everyone.

Ituralde

12-04-2008, 19:51

Enjoy your trip! :beam:

ULC

12-04-2008, 19:59

I hope you enjoy NYC AG, I sure do :beam:!

Zim

12-05-2008, 06:46

Cool, I was afraid I'd missed the voting...

Rowan

12-05-2008, 15:27

Ok, I'm back. But everyone else seems to be gone... It might take me a while to get back on track but at least I'm not sleeping in a tent in the middle of nowhere anymore.

Ituralde

12-05-2008, 16:08

To complete the shift change, I will be gone until next Tuesday. I will still be around, but with limited access to the game.

Cheers!

Ituralde

Ignoramus

12-08-2008, 09:15

I'm back guys, and ready to jump back into playing.

Ibn-Khaldun

12-08-2008, 11:17

Good to hear! :2thumbsup:

TinCow

12-08-2008, 15:37

Based on the few poll responses, my own instincts, and Ignoramus' return, I am going to end the Magnaura session and get us on track to resume normal play. I will give a final 24 hours for any last minute Magnaura business, followed by the usual 48 hours for voting.

Zim

12-10-2008, 01:38

Interesting legislation votes.

AussieGiant

12-10-2008, 18:04

Even'in all,

I just jumped onto vote and check in with the troops here.

NY is pretty much "off the chart"...I mean that in a good way. :balloon2:

No one understand me though so that's a shame. :clown:

Take it easy everyone.

Ituralde

12-10-2008, 19:00

I'm back from my trip, btw! :beam:

TinCow

12-12-2008, 17:08

At some point this weekend I will be updating the Inactive Players list. This may result in a few suicides, though I will post notice of any pending deaths 24 hours prior to causing them to allow any last minute arguments against in favor of keeping them alive for another term.

ULC

12-12-2008, 19:36

*slides back in* Sorry TC, the PM I sent you was supposed to be the will, and I do want an avatar. My computer went on the fritz and I didn't want you to have to make you work for a player that couldn't be there. Gave me quite the scare when my computer stopped working :sweatdrop:

Ramses II CP

12-12-2008, 20:26

Vissa should be executed with the rest, leaving no will of any kind. :beam:

:egypt:

Ibn-Khaldun

12-12-2008, 23:06

The Komneni-Petzean Conflict

Began in 1161 AD.

Combatants:

Aggressor's Side:
Isaakios Komnenos (flyd) (Declared War on Theophylaktos Petzeas)

Defender's Side:
Theophylaktos Petzeas (Ibn-Khaldun) (Isaakios Komnenos declared war on him)

Former Combatants:
None

Battles:
None

Settlements Seized:
None

Actually this war haven't ended since neither of us haven't proposed a peace treaty nor accept one.

Zim

12-12-2008, 23:21

Maybe if Isaakios Komnenos could get some ships the war could be resolved. Might be the first civil war with a battle. :beam:

TinCow

12-12-2008, 23:44

Actually this war haven't ended since neither of us haven't proposed a peace treaty nor accept one.

Neither you nor flyd made any protests about the proposed peace, nor did you write anything that indicates any desire to continue the war. CA 7.2 has now passed and it says:

In the case of the 1170 peace negotiations the absence of any participants will be counted as an agreement to end the hostilities between all parties in the proposed white peace.

As I read this legislation, it has the effect of a global Peace Treaty under 'white peace' terms. Unless someone can point out where a particular person exempted themselves from this legislation, it applies to everyone. If you do not want to be at peace, you can just declare war on flyd and the conflict can continue unimpeded.

Ibn-Khaldun

12-12-2008, 23:53

In that case I misunderstood that CA and everything is OK. :yes:

Zim

12-12-2008, 23:56

Ignoramus

12-13-2008, 00:51

Ok guys, I'll just update my version of the LotR mod and get cracking.

Zim

12-13-2008, 01:03

flyd

12-13-2008, 01:16

TC,

I was also under the impression that the CA did not apply to my war, which is the only reason I made no statement. I thought it didn't apply because I was not a party in the Nicosia peace negotiations. Our war was a separate deal for different reasons. I'll make an IC post to declare the non-applicability, which you can treat as a fresh declaration of war if you're in a bureaucratic mood. It would only change the official start date.

Zim

12-13-2008, 01:38

So....the save is open now? Or is Iggy taking it to do something (seemed that way from his post).

Looking forward to moving my character for the first time. :beam:

Ignoramus

12-13-2008, 03:01

I'm just getting my copy of MTWII working with LotR, and then the save will be open. It shouldn't be too long.

TinCow

12-13-2008, 04:53

Does it make a difference that noone involved in that particular war was involved in the peace treaty?

Having just come back recently and skimmed through posts quickly to catch up I'm a bit confused by the connection between some of the civil wars. Were they all part of one big (if uneventful) war? If I were in the game before the session and declared war on some other unaligned senator for reasons completely unrelated to any of the other wars that were ongoing, and the same legislation was passed (without comment from me or my opponent) would my war be ended as well?

Just trying to understand how this type of legislation works now that precedent has been set for it. :bow:

TC,

I was also under the impression that the CA did not apply to my war, which is the only reason I made no statement. I thought it didn't apply because I was not a party in the Nicosia peace negotiations. Our war was a separate deal for different reasons. I'll make an IC post to declare the non-applicability, which you can treat as a fresh declaration of war if you're in a bureaucratic mood. It would only change the official start date.

Apologies to all. As I understood it, the legislation was designed to end the entire war, since no one seemed keen to fight it. I certainly did not want to end conflicts that people actually want, I just did not see any evidence of any eagerness to continue the fight by anyone. The Komneni-Petzean Conflict will continue as it had before without the need for a further declaration. If anyone else still wishes remain at war, please speak up.

TinCow

12-13-2008, 04:55

This will sound kind of sad but I'm having trouble with the "new" (changed right before I left a couple months ago) army rules. I understand the private army system was done away with. Wasn't it replaced with some system where Houses received so many troops depending on how many settlements or something they have? I couldn't find it in the rules thread. Is it just up to the Megas now?

I'm trying to figure out how Asteri stands militarily, whether to request more troops, etc, since Nevoulos fell taking Crete... :bow:

It's vastly simpler now. You personally own all units that start the turn in a stack with your avatar or in the garrison of a fort/settlement you own. However you manage to obtain new units is up to you, with the added benefit that House leaders get 'Prioritized Units' in the same manner as Prioritized Buildings. Check the rank rules to see which ranks get how many PUs.

rossahh

12-13-2008, 05:41

Can someone help me with two particular problems.

Our current feudal chain is something like this.

Comes - Ammonathas Kalameteros (once he is granted Thessaloniki)

Comes - Sophronius Komnenous

Domestikos - Andreas Dermokaitis

Antypatos - Zigavinos Vasilakios

Antypatos (not enough turns for Patrikos) - Magnetios Kalameteros

Antypatos (not enough turns for Dux) - Savvas ek Militou

Patrikios (not enough turns for Megas Dux) - Aleksios ek Ikoniou

Dux (not enough turns for Megas Dux) - Ioannis Kalameteros

The rules state that a Megas Dux
Penalties:
(1) Cannot swear an Oath of Fealty to another Senator. As Aleksios needs another 15 turns to reach this rank (5 as Patrikios, 10 as Dux) it is unlikely it will happen but what would be the result of Aleksios reaching the Megas Dux rank? He can no longer be a vassel to Ioannis Kalameteros. Does that mean he has to stay as Dux or does Ioannis get the carpet yanked from out underneath him?

My second problem is about this statement for each rank's prioritized buildings/units allocation.
If this rank is held during a Normal Senate Session...unless the [rank] is loyal to another Senator.Does this mean the rank at the beginning of a normal senate session, as oaths cannot be officially recognised until the senate session closes?

If this is so our feudal chain has a big problem as at the beginning of the session, our ranks were:

Strator - Ammonathas Kalameteros (unaligned)

Comes - Sophronius Komnenous

Comes - Andreas Dermokaitis

Hypatos - Zigavinos Vasilakios (excluded from swearing an oath for 5 turns)

Comes - Magnetios Kalameteros

Comes - Savvas ek Militou

Comes - Aleksios ek Ikoniou

Comes - Ioannis Kalameteros

Which would mean from our 8 strong feudal chain, we are only entitled to a Hypatos's number of PUs and no PBs.

TinCow

12-13-2008, 14:59

The rules state that a Megas Dux As Aleksios needs another 15 turns to reach this rank (5 as Patrikios, 10 as Dux) it is unlikely it will happen but what would be the result of Aleksios reaching the Megas Dux rank? He can no longer be a vassel to Ioannis Kalameteros. Does that mean he has to stay as Dux or does Ioannis get the carpet yanked from out underneath him?

If that happened, I would allow someone to simply decline the promotion to Megas Dux and remain at Dux.

My second problem is about this statement for each rank's prioritized buildings/units allocation. Does this mean the rank at the beginning of a normal senate session, as oaths cannot be officially recognised until the senate session closes?

...

Which would mean from our 8 strong feudal chain, we are only entitled to a Hypatos's number of PUs and no PBs.

Correct, you didn't get yourselves organized before the Senate session started, so you only get accesss to the PUs that you warranted at that time.

TinCow

12-13-2008, 15:28

Please speak up if you disagree with any of the following.

LotR Death Row:

Nathanail ek Korinthou (BananaBob) - Inactive for 4 months
Makedonios Ksanthopoulos (Privateerkev) - Inactive for 3 months and requested suicide when he left
Nikolaos Aristenos (YLC) - Requested suicide and new avatar
Vissarionas ek Lesvou (Ramses II CP) - Requested suicide, unsure about new avatar
Klimis Dokeianos (GeneralHankerchief) - Requested suicide, will continue to participate as an avatarless Senator for Magaura purposes

Moving from Active to Inactive (and losing their provinces as a result):
Ioannis Kantakouzinos (Kagemusha) - Inactive in the game for the last 2 months and missed the last two Senate votes
Nikiphoros Manouelitis (Warmaster Horus) - Inactive in the game for the last 2 months (and only 1 post for the month preceding that) and missed the last two Senate votes.
Lisas Attaleiatis (00jebus) - Inactive in the game for the last 3 months and missed the last two Senate votes.

Ibn-Khaldun

12-13-2008, 16:58

How can we explain all these deaths IC I wonder? I mean, 4 out of 5 requested suicide? :beam:

Ramses II CP

12-13-2008, 17:41

In my mind I consider Vissa to have abandoned the Empire and struck out on his own following his failure to catch the Summit session at Nicosia.

One last thing I want to mention is that in V's later stories, post siege of Cairo, the 'god' he refers to is meant to symbolize LotR collectively; I tried to put myself in the mindset of a person who often found himself in positions where his life and values were at risk without quite understanding why he was there, or what was going on in the world around him. I think my ideas on the story arc for V were just too static at the start of the game, so as they were increasingly derailed his personality and his justifications for his actions meshed less and less with who he thought of himself as being, resulting in heavy existential questions he wasn't equipped to handle rationally.

I hope it formed an entertaining contrast. :laugh4:

:egypt:

GeneralHankerchief

12-13-2008, 17:44

Just do be clear, I confirm the requested suicide/continued participation as an avatarless Senator.

TinCow

12-14-2008, 02:04

Just do be clear, I confirm the requested suicide/continued participation as an avatarless Senator.

So, I'm guessing that your lack of an avatar will free up enough time to get Pirate Mafia started? :creep:

ULC

12-14-2008, 03:07

Does this mean I can get Bucharest :beam:?

GeneralHankerchief

12-14-2008, 04:05

So, I'm guessing that your lack of an avatar will free up enough time to get Pirate Mafia started? :creep:

I'm off from school for a month. That might also help. :grin:

ULC

12-14-2008, 04:51

Just a general announcement, my "Veteran Warrior" ancillary is up for grabs as "Demetrios & Chara", if anyone is interested. If not, then they will come to me, but I just wanted to throw the opportunity out there.

Ibn-Khaldun

12-14-2008, 19:08

Now, I took the fog of war off because I haven't taken the save for awhile and just wanted to see what others were doing. I must say that I'm happy that we are not some Catholic Kingdom!!
You can see why!
(It's in the spoilers because perhaps some people don't want to see the world FoW off.)
https://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh311/ibnkhaldun/TW%20games/lotr1170inq.jpg
I haven't seen so many Inquisitors in one place since M2TW v1.0!!

Zim

12-17-2008, 21:24

So....everyone having a good holiday season?

Ibn-Khaldun

12-17-2008, 21:29

Not yet.. Mine will start in Friday! :san_smiley:

Zim

12-17-2008, 21:33

Heh, I guess I got lucky/unlucky. The seasonal work I was doing ended last week. I could apply for a transfer to a different department that works straight through Christmas Eve, but the roads are too bad right now to make it to the city I'd have to drive through.

So I suddenly find myself in possession of a lot of free time. :clown:

ULC

12-17-2008, 21:37

I checked the save - both defensive battles end in very messy defeats. I do hope both can get on in time :bow:

Zim

12-17-2008, 21:40

I hope so as well. Overknight's been online as recently as this morning, but I guess something is keeping him from playing the save. No access to his gaming computer maybe?

Things always seem to slow down during the holidays for games like these and hotseats. So many different things to do that are higher priorities than a game, unless you have no life like me. :clown:

TinCow

12-17-2008, 22:24

I checked the save - both defensive battles end in very messy defeats. I do hope both can get on in time :bow:

With or without avatar death?

Zim

12-17-2008, 22:36

OK's battle is a siege defense so it would lead to avatar death.

I know it's likely been said many times before, but the way the AI calculates odds is funny, the battle itself would be pretty easy if fought. :clown:

TinCow

12-17-2008, 22:57

Yeesh. Well, he was online this morning, though he didn't read the PM I sent him a while ago informing him of the battle. Let's hope that he gets back before Friday, because I can't justify holding up the game for longer than 4 days for someone without at least some explanation.

GeneralHankerchief

12-17-2008, 23:51

Particularly for Andres - life imitating art.

http://www.kansascity.com/450/story/941496.html

Ituralde

12-18-2008, 08:50

Too bad he isn't named Blacky. But then Scuba really wouldn't have fit for our time period. :beam:

I hope everyone is having a good holiday season too. Although I'll be staying with my gf's family and my own I will have plenty of internet access at both places. So either way I'm covered. :2thumbsup:

flyd

12-18-2008, 09:08

That's completely ridiculous and unrealistic. That dog is obviously a resident of California. I'm pretty sure the Illinois governor has to be a resident of the state.

Andres

12-18-2008, 11:18

So....everyone having a good holiday season?

Not yet. But it'll get better. The next two weeks I only have to work for 4 days :2thumbsup:

Particularly for Andres - life imitating art.

http://www.kansascity.com/450/story/941496.html

Seems like somebody has stolen my idea.

Ok, which one of you is Michael Sunday?

:inquisitive:

_Tristan_

12-19-2008, 10:04

Sorry if I have been rather un-participative recently but things have come up in RL that have left me with a lot less time on my hands.

Plus, I have recently grabbed a copy of FallOut 3 and my computer game-time has been mostly devoted to scouring the wastes of DC post-nuclear armageddon.

Lastly, I might have managed to put spare some time to be more active in these boards if I had not been rather distraught by the way the whole Civil War matter was resolved. Ramses and I worked towards seeing a true PvP resolution of that conflict (even if it would have been a losing one) by attacking the summit, only to have our contenders back down from the challenge... I thought that this kind of thing was the crux of the game and I worked hard (or rather played hard) with Methodios to put him in a position where he would be in a position to challenge the powers that be, only to see that the state of things is in fact immovable. Once a Basileus, always a Basileus... Which does not reflect truly how historically Byzantine politics were at the times, with power struggles and short-lived reigns.

I am now struggling to find motivation to keep on playing, knowing that Methodios will die in a few turns and will not get a second shot. Playing his son will perhaps be even harder.

Ituralde

12-19-2008, 11:21

Since a large part of the conflict played out during my term as Megas I think there were enough opportunities to see real battle. Both sides had armies and fleets available to them to take a quick route to the other persons location. The land route was also an option. I don't think the Order of St. John would have stopped you and either way there could have been a battle.

The Civil War ended as it did, because both participants just sat in their respective towns for one whole Megas term.

Ignoramus

12-19-2008, 12:11

The problem I had was that it would have taken me a whole 10 turns to reach Egypt, and I was anxious to invade Italy. I didn't want to go after Methodios - I wanted others to do it for me.

Rowan

12-19-2008, 13:21

_Tristan_

12-19-2008, 16:16

The problem I had was that it would have taken me a whole 10 turns to reach Egypt, and I was anxious to invade Italy. I didn't want to go after Methodios - I wanted others to do it for me.

And I had approximately the same problem, plus the fact that I would have been ganged up against if I had left the "relative" safety of Egypt.

"Fight on your homeground" was my motto and I hoped that heaping insult upon insult to Ioannis' honor would force him to make a move, alas, it was not enough.

And @Ituralde, while people (Order or others) may not have hindered my northwards moves, having a Hostile Megas in command was not exactly the perfect situation in fighting a war far from home (See the Vietnam War for example... No home support = no victory = debacle).

I'm just disppointed that the only thing devious Methodios ever considered doing in his whole life (bringing Ioannis alone or almost on an island under a flag of truce under pretense of peace parleys to wrest the crown off his head), that single challenge was not taken up.

I wouldn't have minded Methodios dying in that (almost) hopeless fight... It would have made much better sense than having the two heads of state forced into a white peace through some vote of the Senate, waiting for one of the two to die of old age.

I cannot believe how a ruler would allow his "heir" to defy him thus without lifting the little finger to bring him to heel forcibly. It is almost an invitation to more of the same.

But right now, seeing how things developed, even if I had the opportunity to throw the gauntlet in Ioannis' face once again, I'm not sure I would do it. It is not worth the effort...

And I'm not sure we'll have the required conditions anytime soon in game. We had almost the perfect set-up with the Ruler and Heir practically at each other's throats from the beginning.

I didn't expect to have others rally to me (Methodios has been too controversial for this) but not many answered Ioannis call to arms with any enthusiasm. So a 1v1 fight might have solved the situation, considering Ioannis had the Megas in his pocket : unlimited access to recruitment (both regular and merc) while Methodios would have had to struggle with his much depleted Crusader forces...

To sum things up, I think Ramses and I created a good confrontational situation (even if it was a losing one, as I stated earlier) in taking the Summit "hostage" and I felt let down that it didn't quite lead to a PvP fight.

I may be wrong but I think the slowdown of the game may come from this "Cold War" which has left everybody preparing for Armageddon and finally being left to witness a Charles Ingalls' happy ending (or almost).

Speak of an anti-climax...

KnightnDay

12-19-2008, 19:27

Well with the death of OK, the Basileus now has Constantinople under his control. And with several avatars about to disappear through "suicide", maybe there is a something to be had there. Was it really suicide? If so, were they forced into the act and is there more to this than meets the eye?

As the new kid in town with a bodyguard of 22, it's rather difficult for me to stir the pot without going way OOC. Seems to me one of the central characters has to drive our storyline. My $.02

Ituralde

12-20-2008, 18:03

I realize that the situation wasn't good for Methodios, but it was clear from the beginning that forcing a PVP battle out of a story, was not the best solution. The fact remains that both sides didn't invest enough into this Civil War, while the rest of the Empire was content to watch from the sidelines.

I just don't want you to feel unhappy with the game, or somehow blame the things that happened on the playerbase. The conditions might have been good, but looking at the outcome they apparently weren't good enough. That doesn't mean we have wasted our last chance to have a Civil War in this game or that the position of Basileus has not been weakened by it. It was a stalemate and nobody was willing to resolve it, and that's why nothing happened and the Senate decided to end the farce. If the participants disagree they are free to start their war again.

Once the holiday lull is over I am confident that we will see more action. I have plans for my next avatar, so I would not count the whole game lost or anything. I think the whole Ioannis-Methodios incident was a nice first step, from the period under Aleksios where peace between all nobles was unquestionable, because we had outside enemies to turn on. This will slowly shift to enemies within the Empire and the recent conflict has been an important step in this.

Cheers!

Ituralde

ULC

12-20-2008, 20:27

I just hope TC can get those Avatar's queued up so I can pick my already! I'm all geared up and ready to go :2thumbsup:

Zim

12-21-2008, 09:05

So very close, YLC...well, depending on how long the next turn lasts after it finally officially starts. :clown:

TinCow

12-21-2008, 20:40

Apologies for the slow start to this turn. I wasn't aware there was a third defensive battle until just now. This term WILL get moving at a reasonable pace in the near future.

Ibn-Khaldun

12-22-2008, 21:33

So, where is Northnovas anyway?

Northnovas

12-23-2008, 01:18

So, where is Northnovas anyway?

Okay I just got back home I was away the past couple days. Just trying to get some things done here and will try to get to the defensive battle tonight.

YouHaveRecieved

12-23-2008, 20:43

Hi,

I have recently joined Will of the Basileus and it is quite enjoyable.

I would like to join Last of the Romans aswell as it look enjoyable.

How easy is it to keep track of both games?

TinCow

12-23-2008, 20:58

I can't comment on how hard it is to play both, but you are certainly welcome to join as many as you would like. I am about to spawn a whole boatload of avatars for the next turn anyway, so a few more in the queue won't hurt. Alternatively, there is also one family member (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2071154&postcount=38) who is unassigned and can be taken immeditately.

Ibn-Khaldun

12-23-2008, 22:12

I play both LotR and WotB. But my position is a bit complicated because in LotR I am a casual player, don't have anything important to do and have a low rank. In WotB I am, as you know, the Basileus and also the GM. So totally different position.
But if you just play them as a player(no important tasks and so on) then you can easily track both of them. The Rules are pretty much the same, except the Ranks and Army Rules(WotB uses the old LotR Army rules). So you don't have to remember two totally different rule sets.

YouHaveRecieved

12-23-2008, 22:45

Hmmm, Leon looks interesting. I have read through the rules and I agree, they are practically the same. I've decided, I'll join tommorow then, when I install SS.

Ignoramus

12-24-2008, 09:47

Just a note: I will be going away from the 26th to the 4th. As we're having a Christmas break, I hope that doesn't effect anyone.

Ibn-Khaldun

12-24-2008, 11:38

Actually it does because YOU are the Megas!!!:inquisitive:

Ignoramus

12-24-2008, 11:42

Well, we can't very well play when there are so many people away. I think KotR had a Christmas break, and it would seem strange to think that LotR wouldn't.

Zim

12-24-2008, 11:55

I don't suppose the turn can be finished before you go? I'm kind of curious about what types of characters the one new guy and some of the others getting new avatars will end up with. :beam:

Ignoramus

12-24-2008, 13:10

Don't worry, I'll do the turn tomorrow, and so be able to save people the suspense. I apologise if my going away causes any inconvenience. I hadn't forseen the long delay we had last week.

TinCow

12-24-2008, 14:25

It might be good to have a few days to sort out the new avatars, since there will be so many of them. As long as the turn ends, there will be plenty of time to figure out who is getting which one.

YouHaveRecieved

12-24-2008, 14:32

Right, I've installed SS and the LotR patch so I assume Leon is mine?

TinCow

12-24-2008, 14:35

If you'd prefer him over the unspawned RBGs, then yes. If you want Leon, you can begin playing him (and moving him) right now.

YouHaveRecieved

12-24-2008, 14:55

Cool, I'll start playing him now.

Zim

12-25-2008, 08:38

~:cheers: ~:santa: Merry Christmas everyone! ~:santa: ~:cheers:

Ibn-Khaldun

12-25-2008, 11:44

And the same to you too, Zim! :san_smiley:

TinCow

12-26-2008, 16:38

The new avatars are available to be selected, and I have put up mugshots of them here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2092805&postcount=219). The current turn will last until Ignoramus returns on January 4th, so there is no rush on selections. However, the selections are all first come, first served, so it's in your interests to choose soon. If for some reason you really don't like any of the avatars available, let me know why and I'll consider spawning more.

Rowan

12-27-2008, 18:14

Ibn-Khaldun

12-31-2008, 10:21

Victory is complete and total (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=193&id=4261), with the Michail the Brave (or Foolish, depends on who you ask) having died in battle during the siege while trying to rally his men. Nikolaos Aristenos has signed the proper papers and has now retired, leaving the Protoasecretes to execute his will.

Yayy, our first Civil War battle. I wish it would've been player vs. player battle but this here is almost as good. :2thumbsup:

TinCow

12-31-2008, 16:23

The Library is being completely updated to reflect the numerous changes that have taken place recently. For convenience, I am listing all of the changes here. Please point out any errors or omissions you notice.

Moved to Inactive List (lose their provinces and oaths of fealty are cut):
Ioannis Kantakouzinos (Kagemusha) - Provinces (Yerevan, Dyarbakir) given to his Lord, Pavlos Chrysovergos (Ituralde)
Nikiphoros Manouelitis (Warmaster Horus)
Lisas Attaleiatis (00jebus) - His Lord (Ioannis Kantakouzinos) is also going inactive, so his provinces (Trebizond) is given to his Lord's Lord, Pavlos Chrysovergos (Ituralde)

Komnenodoukai Changes:
Loss of two members results in a three person house. Tiblisi given to Andronikos Komnenos (woad&fangs). As two middle members were removed due to inactivity, the oaths are considered re-sworn within the house to fill in the gaps, resulting in Comes, Domestikos, and Hypatos.

Order of St. John Changes:
Deaths and inactivity have reduced them to a three person house. Despite an official announcement that Armatos ek Naksou (Cecil XIX) was no longer the Grandmaster, the oaths have not been resworn and thus he remains the highest rank of the Order of St. John. Oaths automatically re-sworn to fill the gap caused by the death of Vissarionas ek Lesvou. Antiokheia is given to Vartholomaios Ksiros (Rowan).

The Accord Changes:
Death of 2 out of 3 members essentially makes it a non-entity. Since it was described to me initially as an unofficial alliance and not really a House, I will mark it as ceasing to exist and will put its remaining member, Apionnas Vringas (AussieGiant), as unaligned unless given other instructions. Apionnas Vringas gains control of Bucharest, as Klimis Dokeianos (GeneralHankerchief) was still sworn to him when he died, and I cannot find a will for him. (Correct me if I am wrong on this.)

Ilios Korakas Changes:.
Vakchos Tzetzis (Smowz) swore an oath to Methodios Tagaris (Tristan de Castelreng), but it was rejected at that time due to the Civil War. While that part of the Civil War is now over, the oath has never been resworn, so Vakchos Tzetzis is considered unaligned. The imminent retirement (death) of Nikolaos Aristenos (YLC) will result in further changes. Methodios Tagaris gains Kosmopolis. Nikolaos Aristenos gains Durazzo.

Asteri Changes:
Ammonathas Kalameteros (KnightnDay) swears to Andreas Dermokaitis (Marcus Agrippa), but remains landless.
Andreas Dermokaitis (Marcus Agrippa) swears an oath to Zigavinos Vasilakios (rossahh).
Zigavinos Vasilakios (rossahh) switches his oath to Magnetios Kalameteros (Zim).
Magnentios Kalameteros (Zim) swears an oath to Savvas ek Militou (Andres).
Savvas ek Militou (Andres) swears an oath to Aleksios ek Ikoniou (Northnovas).
Aleksios ek Ikoniou (Northnovas) swears an oath to Ioannis Kalameteros (deguerra).
Savvas ek Militou (Andres) dies (Arta given to Ioannis Komnenos (Ignoramus) by will), and an auto-oath is sworn between Magnentios Kalameteros and Aleksios ek Ikoniou to fill the gap.

The resulting house caps out at a Dux, with the potential for Megas Dux/Exarch if Ammonathas obtains land and the House remains stable for 10 turns after that point.

Misc changes due to deaths:
Constantinople given to Ioannis Komnenos (Ignoramus)

GeneralHankerchief

12-31-2008, 22:09

You are correct about my character's lack of will, TC.

BTW, give me some time to digest that PM you sent me. I'll have it back in a day or two.

TinCow

12-31-2008, 22:33

BTW, give me some time to digest that PM you sent me. I'll have it back in a day or two.

No rush on it at all, it was a slow work week, and I found it more interesting to work on that. I'm still months away from being ready for it, so there's no urgency at all.

Ibn-Khaldun

01-01-2009, 01:24

Happy New Year everyone!!! :balloon2:

KnightnDay

01-01-2009, 02:17

Asteri Changes:
Ammonathas Kalameteros (KnightnDay) swears to Andreas Dermokaitis (Marcus Agrippa), but remains landless.
Andreas Dermokaitis (Marcus Agrippa) swears an oath to Zigavinos Vasilakios (rossahh).
Zigavinos Vasilakios (rossahh) switches his oath to Magnetios Kalameteros (Zim).
Magnentios Kalameteros (Zim) swears an oath to Savvas ek Militou (Andres).
Savvas ek Militou (Andres) swears an oath to Aleksios ek Ikoniou (Northnovas).
Aleksios ek Ikoniou (Northnovas) swears an oath to Ioannis Kalameteros (deguerra).
Savvas ek Militou (Andres) dies (Arta given to Ioannis Komnenos (Ignoramus) by will), and an auto-oath is sworn between Magnentios Kalameteros and Aleksios ek Ikoniou to fill the gap.

The resulting house caps out at a Dux, with the potential for Megas Dux/Exarch if Ammonathas obtains land and the House remains stable for 10 turns after that point.

Ammonathas is expecting to be granted Thessaloniki. Just waiting for the papers to be passed.
I have witnesses!!

ULC

01-01-2009, 04:46

No rush on it at all, it was a slow work week, and I found it more interesting to work on that. I'm still months away from being ready for it, so there's no urgency at all.

OMG, Oh noes! GH and TC are plotting something, woe betide us all! :cry::cry:

Rowan

01-01-2009, 10:26

Order of St. John Changes:
Deaths and inactivity have reduced them to a three person house. Despite an official announcement that Armatos ek Naksou (Cecil XIX) was no longer the Grandmaster, the oaths have not been resworn and thus he remains the highest rank of the Order of St. John. Oaths automatically re-sworn to fill the gap caused by the death of Vissarionas ek Lesvou. Antiokheia is given to Vartholomaios Ksiros (Rowan).

Antiokheia coming back to Bart must be wrong unless Theo just died...
Here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2019356&postcount=4) Armatos gives Antiokheia to Bart and here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2093826&postcount=18) it is passed to Theo. The wording is not the most clear but Bart's had the title ancillary for quite a while so I'd think it was clear enough.

Unless you meant Thebes, which was Vissa's province...

Ibn-Khaldun

01-01-2009, 12:28

I think during the Senate Session Antiokheia belonged to Vartholomaios. Theo got it only recently.

TinCow

01-01-2009, 16:47

OMG, Oh noes! GH and TC are plotting something, woe betide us all! :cry::cry:

LOL, it's not for LotR. I'm going to host a mafia game (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2091031&postcount=36). Since I haven't done one before, I asked GH to take a look at my first draft of the roles to see if they are balanced.

ULC

01-01-2009, 17:00

I still think your plotting something...

:clown:

GeneralHankerchief

01-01-2009, 22:56

Btw, we're definitely due for a PvP battle. This is the longest we've had to wait out of the three PBMs.

This, of course, has nothing to do with the fact that I still have over a week off and need something to do with my time... :juggle2:

Zim

01-01-2009, 23:56

Well, we kind of had one. :clown:

Btw, we're definitely due for a PvP battle. This is the longest we've had to wait out of the three PBMs.

This, of course, has nothing to do with the fact that I still have over a week off and need something to do with my time... :juggle2:

pevergreen

01-02-2009, 01:47

I'm sorry, I didn't have access to M2TW at the time. :no:

Zim

01-02-2009, 01:52

I don't think anyone is complaining about that battle. GH just wants us all to go to war for his amusement, or something like that. :beam:

Does anyone know how far into KotR we were before our first pvp battle? I'm thinking more in terms of sessions than real time.

TinCow

01-02-2009, 15:27

The first PvP in KotR occurred in the 14th term, which would equate to the 15th for LotR, since the 1st term in KotR was 20 turns long. However, PvP was not allowed in KotR until that time, so it wasn't possible earlier than that.

Zim

01-03-2009, 00:53

Looking at the old history thread, it looks like the Cataclysm (14th "term")started only ten months after KotR started. :jawdrop:

LotR still beat out KotR for first the pvp battle even in real time, though, having it some 7 months after the game began, as opposed to KotR's 10. Not that a fair comparison can be made with pvp battles not being allowed in KotR until the Cataclysm.

On the other hand KotR did move faster in general, getting to about term 10 or 11 in their 7th month. However, it's my understanding that in the beginning KotR had only as many players as natural family members, which would make the game faster in the early terms. Also, we've moved at a halfway decent clip, averaging about 3 weeks per term I think, until this very latest one. When Iggy comes back on the 4rth, we'll have very nearly spent six weeks on this one, counting the Senate Session. Circumstances out of everybody's control (lots of holiday vacations, including more recently our Megas, OK semi disappearing, etc.) seem to have delayed things, dropping the speed of the game.

With the holidays over and a New Year hopefully things will move a bit faster. :beam:

On an unrelated note, I still have my "Dietrich Supporter" pin for the Battle of Bern. I found it when my wife and I moved a few months ago. :clown:

TheFlax

01-05-2009, 01:03

Just got news from Deguerra. He asked me to tell you all that he's experiencing technical difficulties with his computer and internet connection. As such, he won't be present on the Org for an unknown period of time.

rossahh

01-05-2009, 05:13

Which leaves Thessaloniki in limbo. It was all agreed that it would go to KnightnDay but we were just waiting for deguerra to post the announcement IC. I might be able to dig up a pm where we say that - might have deleted it though.

Now that Warmaster Harus's character has been retired, what happens to Scopia? Tin Cow's report didn't mention that settlement. I assume it gets passed along to Ignoramus to add to his collection?

Ituralde

01-05-2009, 08:07

Ah.. it's good to play an old man that is a slave to superstition! :2thumbsup:

Rowan

01-05-2009, 08:28

Ah.. it's good to play an old man that is a slave to superstition! :2thumbsup:

And it's easy to prophesy when you now the future :clown:

TinCow

01-05-2009, 14:40

Which leaves Thessaloniki in limbo. It was all agreed that it would go to KnightnDay but we were just waiting for deguerra to post the announcement IC. I might be able to dig up a pm where we say that - might have deleted it though.

Under the circumstances, I will accept a non-public (i.e. PM) statement as proof of the transfer. This includes any statement deguerra can submit via emailing to someone else. To ensure that this is accurate, when deguerra is able to get back online I will have him confirm personally that he wished to make the transfer. If he did, the transfer will become permanent, if not then it will revert to him.

Now that Warmaster Harus's character has been retired, what happens to Scopia? Tin Cow's report didn't mention that settlement. I assume it gets passed along to Ignoramus to add to his collection?

Yes, it goes to Ignoramus. Sorry about missing that.

KnightnDay

01-05-2009, 23:33

The PM has been forwarded to TC for review.

TinCow

01-06-2009, 00:40

Thanks, that's good enough, especially since deguerra himself benefits directly by getting his Megas Dux timer started.

Thessaloniki is now considered the property of Ammonathas Kalameteros (KnightnDay) until deguerra can get back online and confirm or deny his intentions to transfer it.

Zim

01-09-2009, 07:37

I see Kosmas' daughter has an adoption offer. Does the Megas decide whether to take it?

TinCow

01-09-2009, 14:29

That's not really clear in the rules. Normally it would be Kosmas (you) but since he's dead that's a gray area. Does anyone have any strong feelings on it either way and does anyone want that to play the avatar being offered?

Zim

01-13-2009, 00:37

So, we have some between-turn downtime. I've got some news that may lead to a decent paying job in the field I'm interested in, although it isn't a sure thing. How's everybody else doing?

TinCow

01-13-2009, 00:40

I'm working on a solution to the excruciating slow pace. Hopefully we'll be back to normal in the near future.

:wall:

Zim

01-13-2009, 00:47

I'm not really too concerned about the pace right now (we had times in KotR where that happened, but things always eventually pick up). I just figured I'd make some small talk. :beam:

Ramses II CP

01-13-2009, 01:30

Reorganized my house top to bottom trying to get rid of some of that stuff that just seems to appear, take up space, and never get used. Trying to have more playdates with the local MILFs... I mean Mom's playgroup. Really trying to convince the wife that we should have another kidlet, and soon. Generally just cruising along with my cake life watching all the cool little local shops get shut down and local politics erode to the lowest common denominator.

Keeping as close an eye as possible on the messes in Gaza and Pakistan too...

:egypt:

Zim

01-13-2009, 01:40

Heh, sounds like where I'll be at in a few years (with messes maybe occurring in different countries than those...or not).

I did have a rare moment where something that happened in local politics didn't horrify me. After one of the County Commissioners managed to block a vote on hiring for the Sheriff's Department, people really came through in supporting the Sheriff and it passed a few days later. Considering they currently can only afford to patrol 12 hours a day and keep the pathetically small jail at half capacity it seems a hopeful development.

Reorganized my house top to bottom trying to get rid of some of that stuff that just seems to appear, take up space, and never get used. Trying to have more playdates with the local MILFs... I mean Mom's playgroup. Really trying to convince the wife that we should have another kidlet, and soon. Generally just cruising along with my cake life watching all the cool little local shops get shut down and local politics erode to the lowest common denominator.

Keeping as close an eye as possible on the messes in Gaza and Pakistan too...

:egypt:

Ramses II CP

01-13-2009, 04:23

While I'm griping about politics (And mostly I meant school redistricting and counties fighting vicious, stupid battles over state funding) let me also just put in that some politician's moronic cousin (re: local political appointee) sent some idiot lackeys out to check some beautiful, perfect trees that smelled wonderful and made my neighborhood prettier and found that (*gasp*) on their shaded sides they were a little bit brown. Also, because they were near the road they happened to be technically on county land. Thus causing them to decide that a work crew of about 18 idiot nephews and two darker skinned employees needed to come out and spend a weekend cutting down all those beautiful trees (Two to do the work, 18 to sit in their idling trucks and 'manage' the workers; guess which are which?) for no good reason at all. Trees that had been there maybe 14 years, and would've lived there at least 70 more with no trouble at all.

I am frequently astonished at the unimaginable wealth of our nation that we can so easily sustain the vast useless class of human waste we call politicians. I yearn for simpler times when a quick romp through your local district with a beaten ploughshare could thin the herd for awhile... and in my darker moments I mourn the fact that our riches have made me, personally, so fat and happy that I simply can't bring myself to lurch up off the couch and spill a little blood in the name of the next generation, who undoubtedly won't be so lucky.

These are dark days for us at the apex of civilization, when our own momentum denies us the will to try to make things right for our children, nevermind the children of the other 95% of the world's population.

Betcha didn't know what you were stepping into when you wandered down this road, eh Z? :laugh4:

:egypt:

flyd

01-13-2009, 05:08

I got a puppy.

Zim

01-13-2009, 05:27

Hmmm...our local government wastes most of its time trying to keep any business with the slightest chance of bringing jobs out of town. Can't say I've ever had any of those darker moments you mentioned, though...

This would be the second time a discussion I was involved in in an OOC thread here at the org has veered into territory that could get the participants in trouble. :clown:

P.S. Yay puppies.

P.P.S. How long do we have to make HOF nominations? I'll need to read through the story thread again.

AussieGiant

01-13-2009, 21:08

If I was interested in a 23 year old girl and she was interested in me. Would you guy's have any moral objections? :beam:

TinCow

01-13-2009, 21:20

In relation to the game, it appears that Ignoramus does not have enough time to continue acting as Megas. I have consulted with Northnovas and he is available to take up the job, which would be appropriate under the circumstances since he was the runner-up in the previous election anyway. I am waiting on the official decision until I get the final approval from Ignoramus for this switch-over, but wanted to inform everyone of what was going on.

This will NOT be considered an in-game impeachment. Ignoramus can create whatever excuse he likes for stepping down IC. If he does not, you are all free to speculate on the cause to your hearts' content, as long as it is clear that the action was voluntary by the Basileus. If there are any protests with Northnovas taking over as Megas in this manner, an Emergency Session can be called to impeach him. Currently, both Ignoramus and deguerra can call Emergency Sessions, so talk to them if you want one.

AussieGiant

01-13-2009, 21:26

Hmmm....interesting.

Northnovas

01-13-2009, 22:18

If I was interested in a 23 year old girl and she was interested in me. Would you guy's have any moral objections? :beam:

As long as it is by her own freewill! :jester: No problem enjoy!

AussieGiant

01-13-2009, 22:29

Yeah it's totally free will here. :2thumbsup:

I just read your email NN. I'll get back to you as soon as I can mate.

Cheers

flyd

01-14-2009, 00:22

If I was interested in a 23 year old girl and she was interested in me. Would you guy's have any moral objections? :beam:

I have an objection, but it is not moral in nature. I object to you reducing the size of the pool of available 23-year-olds. Stay out of my pool, you old fart! :beam:

Northnovas

01-15-2009, 03:23

Disclaimer:

To all trying to get through this term to pick up the pace so there is no agenda or malice by me. I would appreciate those active to update the SOT that is what I am trying to follow. I would also like a little guidance with PA and PB who gets what.

If I make a mistake in the process let me know ASAP so that it can be corrected or the damage repaired.

Northnovas

01-17-2009, 05:46

Just a note if their are concerns for your settlement please update the SOT. :2thumbsup:

ULC

01-17-2009, 23:27

Do I sense a return of PK with the latest story?

*hopeful*

GeneralHankerchief

01-17-2009, 23:38

Funny, and here I was just thinking it was a nod to Macbeth. :laugh4:

Cecil XIX

01-18-2009, 02:40

Do I sense a return of PK with the latest story?

*hopeful*

Unfortunately, no. Although I have been incorporating some OOC correspondence about what PK's plans were.

Also, I've updated my latest story. I had to post it prematurely do to circumstances beyond my control. Stay tuned...

Ramses II CP

01-18-2009, 07:31

Pardon me a moment while I indulge in my return to villainy...

Muahahahahahaha!

:egypt:

Ibn-Khaldun

01-18-2009, 09:55

Gah! Armatos is dead?? The Order is down to two men?? And I am besieged?? :dizzy2:

The world is ending I say....

TinCow

01-18-2009, 22:55

Nice to see things getting interesting again. :yes:

Northnovas

01-19-2009, 14:11

I will hold off picking up the save till later today or possible late evening Monday. There is some more movement and an attempt to break the siege in Anitioch. I will let this happen before moving the turn.
The goal is to get the game moving and it looks to be doing just that..... :2thumbsup:

Rowan

01-19-2009, 15:48

I haven't had this much fun since the Egyptian Crusade :laugh4:
Now I'm off to gym and in 2 hours Bart will ride again to kill some Turks!

deguerra

01-20-2009, 01:21

Hi guys!

Internet at home is screwed for the time being. I will try to access semi-regularly (can prbly do a few times a week) from elsewhere, but things are a bit difficult in general atm.

Glad that Thessa got handed over and things seem to be moving along. That's what I'd hoped for.

I'll check back in soon, and try to get some PMs done.

Northnovas

01-21-2009, 06:04

While we have a loll in the action what were we doing for transport of men to ship ratio? Were we keeping the ratio from KotR? I just want to clarify.

There are men sitting in ships at Venice with no commander who moved them there? It would be nice if the Basileus blew ashore with his army. Ships are expensive upkeep and I would like to keep what we need to a minimum. They can be utilized for some quick movement to ferry troops along the coast but I would just like to maintain a cost effect ratio.

Cecil XIX

01-21-2009, 06:09

The ratio is indeed the same.

Zim

01-21-2009, 06:12

I'll check with TheFlax to see who should fight the battle. Either way, it should be resolved shortly. :2thumbsup:

Zim

01-21-2009, 08:29

The curse of Zim strikes again...

ULC

01-21-2009, 10:06

Don't worry to much folks, this is not what your thinking it is :clown:

Ibn-Khaldun

01-21-2009, 10:48

Gah! The 'Bastard' is dead! :laugh4:

Zim

01-21-2009, 10:51

And without the chance to ever live up to his name. :clown:

Ituralde

01-21-2009, 15:10

I was this close to posting in the Magnaura, before realizing I was dead. Oh, well not that it came unexpected.

Who's up for grabs now? Anyone interesting? Who will become the nephew of Pavlos? :beam:

TinCow

01-21-2009, 15:15

Yeesh, I missed that too. Let me sort out that death as well. I'll post about the new avatar situation for both you and Zim later this evening when I get a chance to look at the save.

GeneralHankerchief

01-21-2009, 19:03

Just a reminder that I'm open to running a traditional PvP battle in and when the time comes.

Zim

01-21-2009, 20:20

There are some leftovers from when TinCow recruited RGBs a few turns before, although most of the good ones were picked already (one or two are ok).

No fms I think, but a couple Komneni are coming of age over the next turns.

I was this close to posting in the Magnaura, before realizing I was dead. Oh, well not that it came unexpected.

Who's up for grabs now? Anyone interesting? Who will become the nephew of Pavlos? :beam:

TinCow

01-21-2009, 20:46

It is probably worth reminding people that Event Four (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2033844&postcount=1661) is still in effect, and will probably remain in effect until the end of the game.

Zim

01-21-2009, 21:09

I think I'm going to just take one of the avatars that was leftover from the last recruiting period. There's one that more or less fits starting position and statwise to what I was hoping for. He's also the same age as the character I had that lasted the largest number of battles, Andreas von Salzgitter (Note Arintheos is 27 now. I just took the old pic from the signup thread). Hopefully that'll be good luck...

https://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b203/TinCow/LOTR/1170/LOTR004.jpg

TinCow

01-21-2009, 21:12

If that's who you want, you've got my permission to take him and start playing immediately. Note that I will happily teleport any avatar to your chosen starting city, if he's not in the exact right place. Also, I think there's an adoption offer up for Kagemusha's avatar. If so, anyone can accept that if they want to take the avatar offered on the adoption, since Kage is inactive.

Zim

01-21-2009, 21:30

Well, it is tempting to have him just teleport to the front rather than taking the long way. However, I just sent a pm where his starting place was significant, so I better stay put.

Of course, I may come to regret that depending on the reply to the pm but hey, I regret sending Magnentios on that "easy" charge, and some of my less fortunate decisions with other characters, so it's a feeling I'm used to. :clown:

Ituralde

01-21-2009, 22:02

I looked at the save and won't be taking the avatar that is up for adoption. I'm not really sure which of the characters in Constantinople are taken, but I could probably take one of them. I'll make my final decision some time tomorrow.

Cheers!

Ituralde

TinCow

01-21-2009, 22:05

I'll post the specific avatars that are available later this evening. Since those were spawned several turns ago for other people, I will also give the option to take none of them and choose from a freshly spawned batch.

TinCow

01-22-2009, 01:22

Ok, looked at the save. These are the remained pre-spawned RBGs that are available. All are a couple years older and some have had minor trait changes in that time, but they're generally the same as what you see here:

https://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b203/TinCow/LOTR/1170/LOTR004.jpg
https://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b203/TinCow/LOTR/1170/LOTR005.jpg
https://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b203/TinCow/LOTR/1170/LOTR006.jpg
https://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b203/TinCow/LOTR/1170/LOTR008.jpg
https://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b203/TinCow/LOTR/1170/LOTR009.jpg
https://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b203/TinCow/LOTR/1170/LOTR010.jpg
https://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b203/TinCow/LOTR/1170/LOTR012.jpg
https://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b203/TinCow/LOTR/1170/LOTR013.jpg
https://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b203/TinCow/LOTR/1170/LOTR014.jpg

In addition, there are several women already of age. The eldest Princess is obviously unavailable for the moment due to Event Five, but she has a younger sister who is also of age and ready to marry. In addition there is at least one other non-princess daughter that is of age and ready to marry. This indicates that avatars may be available in the near future via marriage, though if Aleksandra is the one that gets the offers, they'll have to be rejected until Event Five is resolved. This could delay any new avatars via marriage for several turns. Alternatively the three Komnenos boys (Evmathios, Ioannis, and Appollonas) are all about to come of age. They are 15, 14, and 13 years old respectively.

If none of the above options are desirable, I will kill off all the RBGs and respawn 5 new ones to pick from.

Ignoramus

01-22-2009, 02:11

I'd like to reserve Ioannis Komnenos as my next avatar if I may.

Zim

01-22-2009, 02:45

I don't suppose we could have a little bit of extra time for this turn to decide how to respond to the event? It kind of caught me by surprise. :clown:

TinCow

01-22-2009, 02:49

I'm sure Northnovas will oblige your request, he's a helpful chap. :yes:

Zim

01-22-2009, 03:03

I sent him a pm to see about an extra halfday so everyone has a chance to react. :yes:

Northnovas

01-22-2009, 04:50

I'd like to reserve Ioannis Komnenos as my next avatar if I may.

Land Ho! Is that an Iggy post I see!! :jester:

I will not advance the next turn in order to have everyone digest the event including myself. That would also give our Basileus to do something with his fleet drifting off at sea. Maybe he can squeeze in a turn on the current save. :rolleyes2:

Ignoramus

01-22-2009, 05:17

Certainly, I'll get the Basileus to Italia ASAP.

Ituralde

01-22-2009, 09:14

I'll take Nikitas Moshos. He seems like a fine chap to me! :2thumbsup:

_Tristan_

01-22-2009, 16:45

Just a little grievance I wanted to bring forward : it would have been better if the last Event had been announced at the beginning of the turn rather than after some of us (Cecil XIX, Zim and me) had already made their moves thus denying them any possibility to intervene or take actions towards preventing that event.

TinCow

01-22-2009, 17:10

That is a valid complaint. If someone feels like they would have moved their avatars differently if it had been done at the beginning of the turn rather than the end, please send me a PM about it. I will take a look at the save and see if the situation warrants some kind of in-game editing to compensate for the late arrival of the Event.

_Tristan_

01-22-2009, 17:16

it is not so much that I would have moved differently but I may have ditched the infantry in Methodios' stack to allow him to reach the coast more quickly.

TinCow

01-22-2009, 17:17

Again, if you would like me to consider using in-game editing to rectify the situation, send me a PM about it.

_Tristan_

01-22-2009, 17:29

I'll have to ,access the save first to know if editing woulmd be worth it... If you do not hear from me, let's just consider that I'm satisfied with the status quo.

woad&fangs

01-22-2009, 23:06

Wow, lots of stuff happening. :dizzy2:

TC or Ituralde, could one of you tell me exactly which provinces I now own? I believe that it is Tbilisi, Baku, Yerevan, and Trebizond.

TinCow

01-23-2009, 00:19

I don't have Baku listed in the Library, but the rest are there. That said, I think I've missed some places that have been conquered recently instead of transferred. Is that what happened with Baku?

woad&fangs

01-23-2009, 00:34

I conquerd Baku a few turns ago. I believe that Ituralde then recieved it, as per the rules. Now that he has died I assume that Baku is included in the "all other provinces".

TinCow

01-23-2009, 00:35

Yeah, it would be. I'll add it to the Library now. Thanks for pointing out the error, I'm sure there are more in the provinces section.

Ibn-Khaldun

01-23-2009, 11:18

Perhaps I should have mentioned it before but since Theo and Ramses' character are at war then shouldn't a PvP battle occurred when he wanted to pass Antiokheia?

5.4 – PvP Battles: Whenever two hostile armies enter adjacent squares, a PvP Battle will occur, even if the armies have movement points remaining.

According to this Theo and Io should have fought a battle. Now, I had other things in my mind I only after I moved Theo towards Theopolis I realized this here.

Zim

01-23-2009, 13:01

A possible two pvp battles this turn?

Things are really shaking up around here. :beam:

TinCow

01-23-2009, 13:02

Yes, this is true. Was that on this turn?

[edit] If it was on this turn, please do the following:
1) Take the save again
2) Reset Theo's movement (character_reset "Theophylaktos Petzeas")
3) Move Theo back to the square where he was adjacent to Ramses.

Another PvP battle will then occur.

Zim

01-23-2009, 13:10

Ibn was the last player to take the save, he could just replay from the prior save if he doesn't want to mess with the console. :yes:

KnightnDay

01-23-2009, 14:04

Well this is may be a strange twist in the story line. Now if Kousinos just pledged an oath to Theo, is he now not obligated to declare on Erotikos?

TinCow

01-23-2009, 14:08

No, the auto-declaration of war only applies to people who are your vassals at the time you make the declaration. Of course, if you decline to support your Lord in his war, that could have consequences of its own.

[edit] Yes, if Ibn is able to take the save before anyone else gets to it, he is authorized to simply replay the move to avoid console usage.

Rowan

01-23-2009, 15:18

Erotikos isn't still outside Tortosa? When did he move and where? :inquisitive:

Ituralde

01-23-2009, 15:24

He moved north and is currently slightly northeast of Antioch. I suppose he did it during his last movement phase.

Ituralde

01-23-2009, 15:39

This of course puts the movement of Theo in another light. I just had a look at the save and the way that I see it Erotikos moved past Antiokheia in the distance of one square to reach his current position. So Erotikos should not have been able to advance further north than Antiokheia.

At least that's how I understood the rules. Either way, I'm pretty sure there will be a second PVP battle this turn, so there's time to sort the details out later.

Cheers!

Ituralde

TinCow

01-23-2009, 15:48

Ok, let me see if I understand this correctly:

1) Ramses and Ibn are at war.
2) Ramses moved past the city that Ibn was sitting in, passing within a 1 square distance.
3) Ibn then moved out the the city and passed Ramses within a 1 square distance.

If this is right, it matters for the type of battle that would occur. If Ramses moved past the city first, then he would essentially have besieged Ibn. However, a siege is definitely a voluntary thing on the part of the besieger. I would thus make a battle at that site optional. First, Ramses would get the opportunity to decide if he wanted to fight the battle as a siege assault against Ibn. If he declined, Ibn would get a chance to fight the battle as a sally against Ramses. If both declined to fight in this manner, then Ramses would have broken off the siege and moved north. At that point, Ibn left the city, and encountered Ramses in the field. This would then result in a battle that could not be avoided.

That seems both realistic and fair to me, but opinions are welcome.

Ramses II CP

01-23-2009, 16:59

Ituralde

01-23-2009, 17:01

Concerning 3)

If Ibn moved from Antiokheia to Theopolis in the fastest way, he would not have passed within one square of Erotikos if he didn't want to.

I agree with the rest though. If it comes to a siege we would have to see though what's up with Vartholomais, it's his city and he is inside it.

Edit: Didn't see Ramses answer. In that case I don't know where the French Crusaders were last turn. If they have moved then Erotikos would have been able to move to his position without coming close enough to Antioch to warrant a battle.

TinCow

01-23-2009, 17:13

I actually gave Cecil permission to do Io's movement in my SoT, so I wasn't paying attention to what might happen. It was not Io's intent to besiege Antioch, he and his men were just passing along the road and even if it were helpful to me to call it a siege (Which I doubt it is) I wouldn't go back and alter my intent.

So Io and his men are just sitting on the road east or NE of Antioch. If Theo leaves Antioch and wants a battle, though, I say let 'em come. :2thumbsup:

:egypt:

I will consider this to be declining a siege assault. However, if you still passed within the 1 square range of the city, Ibn would have the option of sallying forth against you. (If a hostile army passes along the road outside your city, you could certainly ride out and engage it.) In such a situation, you would be the defender. As noted before, it would be up to Ibn to accept or decline this.

If Ibn declines and, as Ituralde suggests, it was possible for him to make his current move without passing within 1 square of you, I will permit him to avoid the battle if he wishes to do so. I don't want to force a PvP battle on people who do not want one. That happened once in the LotR Cataclysm and the battle that resulted wasted a lot of time and effort for econ21. However, both of you please pay attention to your moves in the future. If you're maneuvering in the vicinity of a Senator you are at war with and do NOT want to fight a battle, be very careful in the path you take.

Ibn-Khaldun

01-24-2009, 00:49

I have made my decision and I don't want to fight this time PvP battle.
I don't have the names of the characters turned on so I assumed that those are Kousinos and Vartholomaios when I made my moves. After I posted the save I alt-tabbed back to the game to advance couple of turns(I know I shouldn't do it but I don't take the save that often so I wanted to know what will happen in the next couple of turns:shame:). Only then I noticed that it was Io with his army and not Vartholomaios. So it was a little surprise to me to see Io there since we are at war.
I'll be more careful next time.

But let's not forget that I have many enemies and I can't remember all of their names and positions!(Theo is in 2 civil wars at the moment):clown:

Rowan

01-24-2009, 19:40

The situation in Levant certainly looks interesting. :sweatdrop:

Now why do I have a feeling that the Order just got two whole stacks of troops swindled from them... :furious3:

KnightnDay

01-25-2009, 00:28

If I can make sure that I have a good handle on things-

Methodios is moving within his stack avatar Ioannis Tagaris. Is that an active avatar and if not, should that character not stay put? Not sure if this is some complex plan of TdCs for a spiritual transfer when the conqueror kicks the bucket :dizzy2:

There are two other family members Ioannis Komnenos in Constantinople, and Vakchos Tzetzis in Mecca region which I believe to be the other avatars which have no active player assigned. Is that correct?

TinCow

01-25-2009, 00:44

Ioannis Tagaris has been reserved as Tristan's next avatar for a long time now. As Methodios is going to kick the bucket any day, it's perfectly fine that he move around with him. I would allow him to be teleported at the start of his new avatar anyway. I did a similar thing for YLC when he conquered Durazzo and then immediately switched avatars.

Ioannis Komnenos the Second (in Constantinople, son of the Basileus of the same name) is Rodrico Stak, who will likely be going inactive this Senate session. So, if someone wants that avatar, he'll be freed up soon. Vakchos Tzetzis is Smowz.

TheFlax

01-25-2009, 00:44

Vakchos Tzetzis is played by Smowz if I remember correctly.

edit: Beaten to it. :clown:

TinCow

01-25-2009, 03:02

Excellent story, YLC and TheFlax!

I'd also like to thank everyone who's been active in LotR over the past couple weeks, especially Northnovas who's done a splendid job as Megas. It feels like the game is finally coming back to life, and that pleases me greatly.

Thanks guys! I may not be a player, but having this game be fun means a lot to me.

TheFlax

01-25-2009, 03:20

YLC and I are trying to start the PvP fight, but for some reason we can't give YLC's avatar his silver chevrons. :oops:

It just blocks at 3 bronze chevrons. I've tried upgrading my units and its the same for me. What should we do?

GeneralHankerchief

01-25-2009, 03:37

I forgot that was an MP quirk.

I suggested rescaling chevrons in a PM, but you guys would have to work out the exact specifics.

TheFlax

01-25-2009, 03:39

YLC suggested giving his avatar the bronze weapon and bronze armor upgrade.

GeneralHankerchief

01-25-2009, 03:40

If you both agree that the upgrades make up for the loss of morale bonus, go for it.

GeneralHankerchief

01-25-2009, 03:46

Okay, as it turns out the only silver and above unit is YLC's Bodyguard. If both sides confirm that an extra weapon/armor upgrade (plus, of course, three bronze chevrons) is a suitable replacement, then we're good to go with no rescaling necessary.

TheFlax

01-25-2009, 06:14

After much hassle, the battle is over.

You can now all witness the depth of my mediocrity and ineptitude by watching the glorious replay posted in the battle thread. :clown:

Zim

01-25-2009, 06:18

While I may be taking a risk by saying this before watching the replay ( ~;) ) I bet you put forth a good effort. I saw that map you fought on...

Cecil XIX

01-25-2009, 07:18

Well done to the both of you, as well as Tincow and GH for getting this set up. Looks like things went smoothly. :2thumbsup:

Next time though, it would be nice if we could download the replay without having to skim past the results of the battle. It'd be pretty cool to watch one of these and not know the results until you see them. :beam:

ULC

01-25-2009, 07:21

I will have mine soon up as well - I hope you enjoyed it though :2thumbsup:

Anyone have a critique of play though? I'd like to know how well TF and I did

TheFlax

01-25-2009, 07:38

Looks like things went smoothly.

Honestly, no it didn't go smoothly. No one is too blame save the inherent instability of this game in multiplayer. I took YLC and I about 4h to finally get to play the battle in full, quite frustration.

Next time though, it would be nice if we could download the replay without having to skim past the results of the battle. It'd be pretty cool to watch one of these and not know the results until you see them. :beam:

I'll keep that in mind. If I had remembered how spoilers work I would have placed the pics in those.

Cecil XIX

01-25-2009, 09:32

Anyone have a critique of play though? I'd like to know how well TF and I did

I'll give it a try. Of course, I welcome a critique of my critique. :beam:

YLC - Your tactic of having your infantry wait in comfort while the enemy approached you uphill was sound, and you did well to exploit the fact that TheFlax's front lines were too far forward with your 1st cavalry charge. I think the second charge was ill-advised though, since the TheFlax changed his formation to defend against it. And without the Militia Cavalry you had to withdraw your Skythikon even further back for protection. I would have had the Skythikon pepper the enemy line with arrows as you did, kept the Militia Cavalry close to protect them as well as hit targets of opportunity, and kept your general between your infantry and cavalry to force The Flax to commit his own general in order to chase off your Skythikons.

It was a good idea to charge TheFlax's lines before they made contact with your own, but I think it would have worked better if you had your infantry charge down hill also. They would have been able to exploit the disruption caused by the Knights. Also, TheFlax left gaps in his line both before and after your charge that you refused to attempt to exploit.

Once the lines met, you did a good job using your general. You defeated his exposed Feudal Knights and kept yourself behind his lines, hurting his men's morale.

Overall I think your tactics were sound, and made good use of terrain. You also chose well in focusing your attention on eliminating his cavalry as a factor, allowing your own complete control. Some minor quibbles, but aside from not exploiting the gap in his formation I don't think you could have done fundamentally better. B+

TheFlax - You should have gotten your formation straight at the start before you started advancing. By having your forward units too far out you left them vulnerable to the cavalry charge, which YLC exploited to great effect. Also, you should have started out with your spearmen at the front. But you recovered well, and when YLC tried the same thing again you stopped him cold. You should also always have your soldiers facing YLC's line so as to get the maximum protection against his arrow fire. The important thing at the beginning was not to let the Skythikon annoy you into making mistakes like tiring your troops out to early, as their arrowfire by itself would not cause too much damage.

You should have had your soldiers in a line, ready to crash into his, before you got close. YLC could have easily charged his men downhill while your soldiers were still in square formations, leaving gaps between your units. You also left a huge gap in your center when you sent your infantry to chase Anargiros. Since you had the advantage in infantry numbers and quality, your best bet would have been to advance your infantry in a uniform line, keeping both your calvary units opposite his general.

Once the lines met and the melee began, your biggest mistake was not keeping your cavalry together. YLC was able to whittle them down. He used his much more effectively. At that point he was free to march behind your lines, and you couldn't stop him. At that point you had too choices. Either sound the retreat, and get your men captured instead of slaughter, or get behind *his* line and execute some hit-and-run charges in the hopes of harming the morale of his generally-low morale militia.

Finally, you chose to commit your general to a battle he could not win. Of course, that can be an RP choice. Pride is an important thing after all.

I recognize you were in a bad situation, so these results may not even be largely your fault. But you failed to prevent him from disrupting your advance, you didn't make use of our advantage in infantry, you left your cavalry divided and vulnerable. A D+, since you corrected your mistakes as the battle went on. You have my sympathies. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1671639&postcount=148)

Finally, here's a picture from the battle that I took of Helarionas and Markos, taken a few second before Markos' capture.
https://img186.imageshack.us/img186/2622/medieval220090125025824pf4.png

TheFlax

01-25-2009, 12:17

Thanks for the analysis Cecil XIX. I must admit I usually have a pretty poor control over my own units, but I special mention must go to the lag I kept having, making my tenuous control often evaporate completely. At many points during the battle, everything stuttered and for most of the battle my units, more often than not, responded with a delay I can only attribute to the lag. (Its not my comp as I can run huge battles at the best settings without problem.)

I'm not trying to make excuses or take away YLC's victory, in my opinion he earned it, but I thought I should point out this attenuating circumstance. Mainly though, I lost because I am not very good at playing out M2TW battles. :yes:

Ituralde

01-25-2009, 15:13

That battle looked like fun! I'm a miserable MPer myself so you have my sympathy TheFlax. Congratulations to YLC on the win though. This should keep things interesting for the future. :2thumbsup:

TinCow

01-25-2009, 15:39

Very well done to both. That's one for the record books: the first MP battle in any Throne Room game, ever. Watching the replay was very exciting, I loved it!

Honestly, no it didn't go smoothly. No one is too blame save the inherent instability of this game in multiplayer. I took YLC and I about 4h to finally get to play the battle in full, quite frustration.

If you can give me details about what problems you had, I'd be grateful. I want to encourage MP battles like this, as they are the fastest and most accurate method of resolving PvP. You have my since apologies for the chevron limit issue. Having never played MP myself, I did not realize that existed. I should have tested the setup in the MP rather than just via a custom battle. :oops:

Ramses II CP

01-25-2009, 20:42

As someone who has never played MP either (Though I tried to arrange a battle for a hotseat once!) you guys have my sympathies. MTWII MP is, at best, unpolished. The battle still looked like fun though, and as an old computer gamer all I can say is that the fortunes of war often include lag. Hopefully we will have more of these, even if they're akward, because even under these circumstances at least you aren't relying on a third party to implement your orders.

I won't analyze the battle as I've never fought anything but the AI, and the AI would've been crushed by either of you guys in that fight.

:egypt:

TheFlax

01-25-2009, 21:18

Ok, I'll go through a few of the basic problems we encountered. TinCow, the chevron thing was honestly not a major time waster, we quickly agreed on how to work it out and if that was the only problem we had encountered I would have said that things went smoothly.

First off, playing through gamespy was impossible for us. When either of us hosted the game, the other got "NAT negotiation failed" preventing us to connect. So then I got YLC to download Hamachi (its a software program that creates a virtual LAN over the internet.) and we met up in the LAN lobby. The first try went pretty well, considering, and I actually won the battle. I'll admit to my noobish mistake here, we had to restart since I had taken the wrong General unit (I took the late era one.) For the next two hours or so, we had a series of problem getting a game started. YLC got disconnected a couple of times before I could actually start the game. A few other time he got the message "No response from Host" and there were also at least two times when he got disconnected during the battle itself. We also realized after the first battle that it was impossible to retreat in MP. We decided to houserule that any units getting to the red line was to be considered having retreated.

I want to have a chat with whoever coded the MP part of the game... :wall:

GeneralHankerchief

01-25-2009, 21:19

You guys don't think anything having to do with the mod itself caused your problems then?

TheFlax

01-25-2009, 21:24

It seemed pretty much only connection issues, so I don't think the mod had any impact on our problems.

Northnovas

01-25-2009, 21:41

That is the first time I have watched a replay, that was neat. It would seem to be a nice way to resolve a PvP. Though I have never done any MP. It is unfortunate the technical issue had to interfere with the process.
Overall nice job by YLC and TheFlax the story is not over yet!

I have read TC's pm about the rules in place and I will pick up the save to advance the turn in a couple hours I just have somethings to finish up before getting into the game.

Cecil XIX

01-25-2009, 22:57

This is a shameless plug, but I'm starting a game to test some new ideas for WOTS-style PBEMs here. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=111934) I only have room for to start with 2-4 other people, so act fast! :eyebrows:

KnightnDay

01-26-2009, 03:15

I did the replay a couple times and made a few notes.

This was the basic formation with which The Flax started his advance

GB(23) Slav(90) Slav(90) Slav(90)

---------------------------------------PrSpear(112) PRSpear(112

---------Mace(90) Mace(90)

--------------Crossbow(90)

--------------------------------------------------FeudalKnight(60)
______________________________________________________________

I agree with CecilXIX that I would have kept the cavalry together for more impact. A strategic reserve can save the day and the lack of one can have the opposite effect.

What I also would note here is that the crossbows were a non-factor throughout the battle. They are primarily a direct fire weapon, not indirect like archers. I would have had them at the very front, ready to run back behind a spear wall in the event of a cavalry charge

The battle was essentially decided early at time index 1770 when the militia cavalry slammed into the two left most Slav Levies. Together those formations lost 110 men at the cost of a single militia cavalry. The left most SL formation was almost instantaneously rendered ineffective for the rest of the battle with only 11 men surviving the charge.

The casualty percentage at that point was 15/2 and that 13% gap, although fluctuating throughout, meant the difference by the time The Flax's tired troops finally enered the melee stage and eventually broke from exhaustion.

Another point I noted that at time index 2614, there were 50 feudal knights sweeping forward with a gradual move left. By time index 4300, they were down to 18 knights with little real contact. The reason was that after they advanced forward and chased off their quary, they faced themselves rearward and for considerable time showed their backs to the enemy. The skythions made their opponents dearly for that as a large number of feudal knights were hit in the hind quarters.

At time index 4557, YLC sends his bodyguard after a Slav Levy with 24 men. Shortly thereafter the melee begins and it's a matter of fresh troops vs a tired and depleted set from the uphill climb. With no reserves to counter, the repeated charges including YLCs cav militia break the spirit of The Flax's troops and the routing begins.

So, from of all this a couple things. Using the ALT key and right clicking will keep all your grouped formations in order. It seems that in an MP setting this can be very helpful where you won't get separated.

If you are worried about arrows, consider going to loose formation.

Crossbows front where possible. At time index 1647, YLCs Cav did a rather casual march across the front of The Flax's lines, and those crossbows could have had a field day, much as the skythions did with the feudal knights.

Definitely entertaining overall. I'd be curious to know one thing. The Flax is in Montreal from what I understand. Is YLC half a world away or on the same continent?

ULC

01-26-2009, 03:18

New York :bow:

TheFlax

01-26-2009, 03:48

So, from of all this a couple things. Using the ALT key and right clicking will keep all your grouped formations in order. It seems that in an MP setting this can be very helpful where you won't get separated.

If you are worried about arrows, consider going to loose formation.

Crossbows front where possible. At time index 1647, YLCs Cav did a rather casual march across the front of The Flax's lines, and those crossbows could have had a field day, much as the skythions did with the feudal knights.

The things you learn! :clown:

Honestly, I'm a bit clueless about many aspects of this game, thanks for the advice.

Also, on an unrelated note. I had a mercenary captain?

Zim

01-26-2009, 06:31

Did the patch for LotR eliminate some of the supply traits? I just noticed a lack of "your army has x turns worth of food left" traits that were common at the start of LotR.

Cecil XIX

01-26-2009, 06:33

Crossbows front where possible. At time index 1647, YLCs Cav did a rather casual march across the front of The Flax's lines, and those crossbows could have had a field day, much as the skythions did with the feudal knights.

So keep the crossbows in front, and stop the whole army for them to fire? I suppose that could be advisable in certain situations, using archers offensively isn't my strong suit. I suppose ideally you'd keep the crossbowmen to the side so they could stand still and be able to hit targets of opportunity without blocking the advance of the rest of the army.

ULC

01-26-2009, 07:10

Actually, that's how some armies used them, with some form of Cavalry support right next to them.

TinCow

01-26-2009, 13:09

Did the patch for LotR eliminate some of the supply traits? I just noticed a lack of "your army has x turns worth of food left" traits that were common at the start of LotR.

If it did, I didn't do it intentionally.

rossahh

01-26-2009, 13:22

So keep the crossbows in front, and stop the whole army for them to fire?

Why not? Fighting an uphill battle you want to preserve stamina as mush as possible.

A better (or more annoying, cowardly but ultimately successful) strategy would have been to wait well out of bow-shot. And wait. And wait. And wait. The AI would patiently wait for you to offer them something, but a human player would snap and do something rash like send their ranged units down to hill to pepper you with arrows.

KnightnDay

01-26-2009, 13:32

For sure we can easily find exceptions under the right conditions. If the opposition has 6 catapults lobbing flaming missiles at me, then no, I wouldn't likely stop my army to fire crossbows. And YLC brings up a good point that positioning them on the flank makes it a bit easier for them to keep firing.

The casualties at the end of the battle clearly showed how poorly the crossbows fared. They hit few targets and at the end themselves were hit by cav and it was pretty much endgame by then.

Zim

01-26-2009, 14:19

I wonder if there's something wrong with my install. Is anyone else not getting those traits? I still get the "troops weary" type ones just not the "starving" ones.

If it did, I didn't do it intentionally.

_Tristan_

01-26-2009, 14:46

Could someone quickly upload a screenshot of the treasury screen for this turn or any other turn for that matter ?

Ramses II CP

01-26-2009, 15:35

If I'm attacking the AI uphill I will often put my archers or crossbowmen right at the front and use them as a sink for enemy arrows or to take and trap a cavalry charge. Let them shoot once, to draw the AI's fire, then just march them into the hail of return fire. Better them getting it than some infantry that will be useful in the fight at the top.

If you're going to be charged by cavalry order the crossbowmen to run towards the charge to prevent it getting into your good troops, and run spearmen into the melee as soon as the charge is done. If you're attacking your foot archers and crossbowmen need to be in extremely superior numbers or they're just meat waiting to die, so try to find 'em a useful way to die.

The other thing I want to say is that, except for certain really extreme terrain types, I don't find preserving stamina works very well against the AI (I've got zilch experience against humans). It's better to get into the fight as soon as possible and start manipulating the other morale factors because the stamina progression appears linear. Which is to say, it always takes X amount of time to get up the hill and always expends X amount of stamina. You can't pause long enough in the middle of an attack under fire to recover any stamina of consequence, so you're better off pressing on.

I've fought battles against the stupid passive AI where I scaled that mountain west of Damascus and let my troops sit until the battle was almost over trying to recover stamina. At best, after half an hour or so, they might recover one degree of stamina. No player is going to give you that kind of time, and even if they did that extra bit of stamina won't affect the battle a tenth as much as the other morale factors you can control.

:egypt:

_Tristan_

01-26-2009, 21:15

Having checked this through the proper channels, I wanted to bring to your attention the following Rule Change.

This is a first draft and will be subject to your comments...

So fire away...:yes:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As an Empire grows, retaining control grows ever more difficult. Resort to local governors becomes a prerequisite but this comes at a cost. Cut-off from central power, these men soon begin to look higher than their station. While some are daunted by the risks of rebelling against the central power of the Basileus, others are spurred by the challenge and look only to free themselves from the oppressive yoke of the Empire. This leads to …

SECESSION:

An avatar that fulfills the following requirements will be able to secede from the Empire and create its own kingdom.
(For the purpose of this rule, he will be called the secessionist avatar.)

1.1 Requirements: (red brackets are creator’s notes)

1.1.1/Must have personal ownership of three contiguous provinces, one of which must be a castle province or be turned into one as soon as possible.(The point being to create a sense of unity and provide elite military for the defense of the kingdom. Islands may be considered contiguous to the nearest landmass Rhodes-Smyrna, Heraklion-Corinth, Cyprus-Antioche).
Should the secessionist avatar be owner of a non-contiguous province at the moment of declaration, he will lose ownership and the province will pass to his liege (or to the Basileus if no liege lord exists).
Non-contiguous provinces conquered after the secession will be deemed added to the kingdom, though tenuously.
1.1.2/Must have had access to at least 5000 florins through conquest (occupy, sack or exterminate) personally or by way of a vassal in the turn of the declaration. (This is to enable the starting of an independent economy from the Empire.)

1.2 Secession and Civil War:

A declaration of secession is considered as a declaration of civil war with the secessionist avatar as the declarer and all loyalist avatars as the targets.
Due to the turmoil created by such a political upheaval, a full turn of non-aggression on both sides will take effect, thus making an exception to Rule # 5.1.
During this turn, any loyalist avatar can declare neutrality in the secession war.

1.3 Lords and Vassals:

A declaration of secession automatically breaks any Oath of Fealty the declarer had to a higher Lord.
It does not break the oaths of his lower vassals, though they may choose to break their oaths at this point. This Breach of Oath of Fealty will not be considered as a declaration of war as per Rule #5.2.

All vassals choosing to keep their Oath of Fealty to the secessionist avatar will be considered part of the secession and part of the Civil War.

1.4 Treasury:

1.4.1/The secessionist faction will start with the sum derived from point #2 above (ie 5000 or more florins) which will serve as his starting treasury. Being an independent kingdom until brought back into the fold, all expenses will be paid from said treasury.
1.4.2/A separate thread will be created by Tincow for the duration of the secession which will be used to list the turn by turn revenue/expenses of the secessionist kingdom. (This to provide an easily accessible balance sheet for use by the Megas).
In this thread, the secessionist player will write a balance sheet for his kingdom each turn whose amount will be subtracted from the Empire treasury.

Example of balance sheet (to be added)

The principle being that every expenses on the Secession balance sheet should be added in the income of the Empire and any incomes from the secession should be substracted from the same column.

1.5 Bankruptcy:

If the secessionist kingdom treasury goes in the red, a state of bankruptcy will be declared.

Consequences of the bankruptcy are as follows:

a/ no recruitment and no building of any sort will be allowed for the duration of the bankruptcy.
b/ If at the end of three turns, the secessionist kingdom treasury has not gone back in the black, the secession will be considered over and the secessionist avatar will be considered to have surrendered.

Funds can be provided by reducing upkeep, destroying buildings or conquering. Ransoms acquired against AI opponents by the secessionist avatar (or his vassals) will be added to the secessionist kingdom treasury. Ransom can also be sought from the Empire for the release of any avatar/units captured through a PvP battle.

1.6 Failure of the secession:

1.6.1/The secession will be considered to have failed if:

a/ the leader of the secession is captured or killed in battle by the loyalists. Any other cause of death will simply bring the succession to the “heir” (ie, the player next avatar or the in-game heir or elected avatar among his vassals in order of preference).
b/ Bankruptcy (on the terms described above)

1.6.2/Whatever the cause of the failure of the secession (except the death in battle of the avatar), the secessionist avatar will be considered to have surrendered to the ruling Basileus. All vassals of the secessionist avatar will be considered to have surrendered (except if rule 1.6.7 comes into effect)

1.6.3/Upon failure of the secession, all lands belonging to the secessionist avatar will revert to the Empire and become property of the Basileus.
Exception : if the secessionist avatar is killed/captured in a siege, then the captured province is considered property of the capturing avatar.
All lands belonging to secessionist vassals will automatically revert to the Basileus (unless rule 1.6.7 comes into effect)

1.6.4/, all funds belonging to the secession will revert to the Empire treasury (except if the failure results of a bankruptcy or if rule 1.6.7 comes into effect)

1.6.5/The fate of the captured avatars will be put into the hands of the Basileus. The Basileus can apply any conditions upon the captured, including release, execution or banishment as per Basileus power #16 (without consideration of authority).

1.6.7/Continuation of the secession:

In the event of a failure through capture/death of the secessionist avatar, vassals may choose to continue the secession, under the following conditions :

1/One among them must be appointed as new leader of the secession.
2/Requirement #1 must be met. Gift of provinces among vassals is allowed under this rule but all lands must be contiguous.
3/The treasury must be in the black.

If the secession is continued, then all funds belonging to the secession prior to the capture of the secessionist avatar remain property of the secessionist treasury.

1.7 The Magnaura and Voting :

The secessionist avatar loses automatically his power to vote upon his declaration of secession. For the purpose of the game, he should still cast his vote as “abstain on all proposals” to record his activity.