OOC Thread and Chatroom 2

[Motep]

The controversial players group...

:laugh4:

Jan from KotR would definitely qualify. :yes:

I don't think Mak is any more "controversial" than any of the other high profile characters.

Efstratios probably could have qualified. Hypatios is in there. Maybe Anastatios. The Caesar I am not sure of. He is controversial to some but not to others.


Do not fret! Everyone has an alotted place!

(everyone on here, anyways)

[Ferret]

By the way, I'm quite pleased to see that we now have all the real LotR villains in a single House. Makes things quite a bit easier for the future. :yes:

:egypt:

:brood:

[Privateerkev]

:brood:

Don't tell me your surprised at being labelled "evil" after exterminating thousands of women and children. :clown:

[Ferret]

They were asking for it :clown:

[Privateerkev]

They were asking for it :clown:

Were they asking to be violated both before and after you killed them? :beam:

[Ituralde]

So I'm an evil character now? :inquisitive:

And for nobody declaring war on Vissa. I think if it were just Vissa many more people would have declared war, my character included, but as it stands declaring war on him may well result in an Empire-wide Civil War, which most people don't want.

[Ferret]

Were they asking to be violated both before and after you killed them? :beam:

No just before, I was merely doing God's work :angel:

[ULC]

Sorry to hear that TC, I hope everything goes well :yes:

And EF, don't play innocent, you have two illegitimate kids :clown:

[Ferret]

If it's alright with you I might make my next avatar one of the kids, or at least RP it that way...

[rossahh]

Now it appears we also have some unorthodox manuevering of oaths as well in order to influence the second round of voting, which I'm not sure is legal in this situation.

Actually, this maneuvering has nothing to do with the vote, it's about boosting the feudal chains of both Asteri and Tagamata. If you don't believe me check Asteri's votes - we all voted for PK. Wait until Northnovas gets back and all will be made clear.

[Motep]

Were they asking to be violated both before and after you killed them? :beam:


Creepy...

[OverKnight]

Apologies to all, but I do not have time to read the previous posts or to read or answer any PMs that have been sent to me recently. My wife has come down with appendicitis and is going into surgery this afternoon. This is not a serious operation, but I will be AWOL for the rest of today (unless the hospital ends up having wifi) and some part of tomorrow. Please forgive any tardiness in posting or replying to PMs.

I know the vote is due to commence while I will be AWOL. Both GH and OK have my permission to end debate and open up the voting thread when the time expires. I expect to be back on a normal schedule before it finishes.

I will be opening a voting thread shortly. The standard window of 48 hours will, I hope, give us enough time to sort out the influence mess. I hope the results will be one-sided enough however to render the debate moot.

[deguerra]

I do have to apologize for the influence mess. It was never my intention to have the influences switch about, otherwise I would have timed it more conveniently. :oops:

[OverKnight]

Nevermind.

[Privateerkev]

I do have to apologize for the influence mess. It was never my intention to have the influences switch about, otherwise I would have timed it more conveniently. :oops:

Well, ironically, the only influence you hurt is your own. So, you only hurt the person your going to vote for. Oh wait... :brood:


:clown:

[OverKnight]

Sorry about the confusion, but the poll (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=106909) is up now.

Unlike TinCow, I can't sticky threads to the top, so the election thread will be floating around a bit. To compensate I have linked to the thread in this one, the History and the Magnaura. If someone can't find it after that, well maybe they shouldn't be voting. :laugh4:

[Rowan]

The worst part of this game is that some of the most memorable exchanges, both IC and OOC, happen between midnight and 7 AM local when I'm happily snoring away instead of taking part. :brood:

At least I got to use the brood smiley that seems to be all the rage nowadays. :clown:

[Ibn-Khaldun]

The worst part of this game is that some of the most memorable exchanges, both IC and OOC, happen between midnight and 7 AM local when I'm happily snoring away instead of taking part. :brood:

At least I got to use the brood smiley that seems to be all the rage nowadays. :clown:

Same here :brood:

[ULC]

I'm always around in a weird sense, so I almost never miss anything, I in fact get bored most of the time waiting for something to happen ~;p.

[Andres]

I hope the surgery goes well, TinCow. Best wishes :bow:


I do have to apologize for the influence mess. It was never my intention to have the influences switch about, otherwise I would have timed it more conveniently. :oops:


Mea culpa... I had an agenda when insisting to start re-arranging the feudal chain asap...

:devil:

:embarassed:

:shame:

[TinCow]

I am up on the hospital wireless connection now. Everything went perfectly fine and my wife is expected to be released shortly. She's actually sitting next to me writing a blog entry.

I've got some time to kill at the moment, so I will try to get through the recent discussions and figure out what this influence issue is that people are talking about. Will post about it soon. I'll try to start getting through the PMs after that.

[Dafuge]

I am forced to use my laptop for a while. This means I will not be able to play battles, but I will be able to move my character. If I do enter a battle I give permision to a Order member who asks firsts. No one else will be able to play them as I would rather it be auto resolved. I was wondering if you can make this an acception to the rules. If not then I will have to travel with other avatars for the time being or let my battles be auto resolved.

[Ignoramus]

Glad to hear everything went ok. Take your time, as the election's a forgone conclusion now.

[Ituralde]

Good to hear that everything went well. Take your time, no hurry! :beam:

[Andres]

I am up on the hospital wireless connection now. Everything went perfectly fine and my wife is expected to be released shortly. She's actually sitting next to me writing a blog entry.

I've got some time to kill at the moment, so I will try to get through the recent discussions and figure out what this influence issue is that people are talking about. Will post about it soon. I'll try to start getting through the PMs after that.

Good to hear that your wife is doing ok :2thumbsup:


Glad to hear everything went ok. Take your time, as the election's a forgone conclusion now.

Bah, rigged elections. Poor Savvas ~:mecry:

[TinCow]

Ok, I've read the OOC thread posts that I missed. To clarify, the Senate was simply re-opened for debate. This was an extension to the same Senate session we were in before, it was not a new Senate session. No influence changes will be allowed. All votes will be tallied with the same influence they had during the tied vote. For convenience, any oath changes that have been made during the Senate session do not need to be re-done. I will consider them valid, but they will only go into effect AFTER a Megas is elected and the session ends.

[Dafuge]

I am forced to use my laptop for a while. This means I will not be able to play battles, but I will be able to move my character. If I do enter a battle I give permision to a Order member who asks firsts. No one else will be able to play them as I would rather it be auto resolved. I was wondering if you can make this an acception to the rules. If not then I will have to travel with other avatars for the time being or let my battles be auto resolved.

Anything on this?

[Kagemusha]

TC. Glad to hear that everything went fine.:2thumbsup:

[TinCow]

Anything on this?

You will have to travel with other avatars or let the battles be auto-resolved. Sorry if this seems unfair, but this situation was specifically considered when the rules were written. Substitutions were allowed in KotR and it caused a lot of confusion and exceptions had to be made all the time. Plus, I very much doubt that this will cause you any permanent harm. Just park yourself in a city for a few turns until you can fight a battle again. No harm done. How long do you expect unable to fight battles?

[Dafuge]

Untill my computor gets sorted,which could be up to and including 5-6 months.

[Privateerkev]

Glad to hear everything turned out ok TC. :2thumbsup:

[Warmaster Horus]

Same here, TC.

[Privateerkev]

Alright, the election will go on until the deadline but the math does not look good for Andres.

So, I'm going to start working on things for the next term.

I will need your guys help with things. I was never Chancellor in KotR so this is my first time doing this. So, for now, I need you guys to please only move what your legally able to move during your free move period.

Which means, your avatar, units that start in your settlement or fort, and your PA/RA. Please do not move agents, captain stacks, ships, or a non-mandated army. If your on a ship or have a non-legally mandated army, then talk to me first before moving it. Because you can't move it without my express permission.

I'm doing this OOC because this is for my OOC sanity more than anything else. Once I get an idea of what I am doing, I will start allowing people to move other things. But for the first turn, please follow the rules exactly with the "free move" period or get my express permission first.

Keep your SOT posts up to date. I'll print them out soon and then I will check them every turn before I grab the save. If you change something after I have taken the save back, I can not promise that I will have seen it in time for that turn. My computer sucks and I can't tab from the game back to the board. So once I have taken the save back, I won't see the board again until the new turn is uploaded.

I will try to take the save back at a consistent time so you will know when to get your updates/PM's in for SOT stuff. After the election, the save will be open until Sunday during the day US CT. Sorry for the delay but I have a wedding to attend in the middle of nowhere (Southern Illinois) and I can't promise I'll have the internet. Once I get back home, I'll take it back and then I will be able to maintain a 24 hour turnaround time on the turns. If you guys need more time for open saves, just say so. But I want to keep the game moving.

Feel free to have me do your moves for you IC or OOC. Regardless of IC relations, I will happily do any legal move for people OOC. I know people can't always take the save all the time and if I can help cut down on the numbers of DL's/UL's, I will be happy to. If you really want to be anal, just use the cursorpoint function in the console which will give you the exact coordinates of your destination. Tell me those coordinates and I can then move you to the exact location you want.

Other than that, please be gentle with me OOC. IC, be as rough as you want.

[Ituralde]

Ah don't worry PK! I'm sure you'll do fine. Although it's a tad ironic that one of the few people here that know the rules inside out is afraid of doing something wrong. Just relax! :beam:

[Privateerkev]

Ah don't worry PK! I'm sure you'll do fine. Although it's a tad ironic that one of the few people here that know the rules inside out is afraid of doing something wrong. Just relax! :beam:

:laugh4: Thanks!

But right now, the rules look quite daunting. I'm sure it's just pre-Megas jitters... :sweatdrop:

[Motep]

Good luck with your turn...You should do just fine.

[TinCow]

:laugh4: Thanks!

But right now, the rules look quite daunting. I'm sure it's just pre-Megas jitters... :sweatdrop:

Read the Megas Guide I wrote for a general outline on how to manage the mechanics of the thing. Don't be afraid to PM me with questions if you have any.

[Privateerkev]

Read the Megas Guide I wrote for a general outline on how to manage the mechanics of the thing. Don't be afraid to PM me with questions if you have any.

That guide is really helpful. Thanks for putting it together so quickly. :2thumbsup:

[Ibn-Khaldun]

I think PK will be good Megas. He knows about the rules more than the rest of us. :yes:

[Privateerkev]

He knows about the rules more than the rest of us. :yes:

I get the rules wrong more than the rest of us too... :laugh4:

And IK, the "fat Venetian merchant" refers to one of TLG's old creations. Read some of his stories and the post in the Magnaura. And be frightened...

[Ibn-Khaldun]

I get the rules wrong more than the rest of us too... :laugh4:

And IK, the "fat Venetian merchant" refers to one of TLG's old creations. Read some of his stories and the post in the Magnaura. And be frightened...

Now that I did not know.. :beam:

[Ramses II CP]

I want to register my discontent that because PK asked about the 'bug' in the powers of the Megas that I dug up before implementing it in the game he was threatened with OOC consequences if he attempted it. This is, IMHO, wildly out of proportion with the handling of the previous direct and deliberate violations of the rules, even if you excuse the first one as ignorance.

I am a firm believer in the power of the GM/host to set and even interpret his own rules, but if enforcement is not consistent the fun of the game will rapidly evaporate.

Nothing more need be said at this point if the parties involved would prefer, I've said all I need to say on the subject.

:egypt:

[Rowan]

Great story Kagemusha! Good atmosphere and it was nice to see the softer side of Kantakouzinos :daisy:

[Ibn-Khaldun]

I get the rules wrong more than the rest of us too... :laugh4:

And IK, the "fat Venetian merchant" refers to one of TLG's old creations. Read some of his stories and the post in the Magnaura. And be frightened...

I've read them and that old creation was not 'Venetian' but he was from 'Genoa' actually:clown:

[Kagemusha]

Great story Kagemusha! Good atmosphere and it was nice to see the softer side of Kantakouzinos :daisy:

Thank you Rowan.:bow:

[Privateerkev]

I've read them and that old creation was not 'Venetian' but he was from 'Genoa' actually:clown:

Are you trying to tell me I have to actually know geography to be Megas!?!? :brood:


:clown:

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Are you trying to tell me I have to actually know geography to be Megas!?!? :brood:


:clown:

I think it is better for you to know geography if you want to be Megas! :inquisitive:


:clown: :jester:

[Motep]

Are you trying to tell me I have to actually know geography to be Megas!?!? :brood:


:clown:


Yes.

:grin2:

[Privateerkev]

Alright, I am going to release the save tomorrow morning. So, when the election is over, do not take the save. I'll post something in the Megas thread when I open it. Then, you'll have approximately 48+ hours of free move period.

I made up a couple of lists to help me. I need to know if the lists below are correct. And I need to know when these things change. A lot of the rules are based on land ownership and oath swearing so I need to be kept up to date on changes. :beam:

Provinces:

Constantinople, Sofia: OK
Nicaea, Dardanellia: Ig
Adana: YLC
Belgrade: Smowz
Bucharest: AG
Sinop, Tibilisi: Ituralde
Yerevan: Kag
Corinth: NN
Antioch: Cecil
Nicosia: PK
Rhodes: EF
Scopia: Tristan
Athens, Thessalonica: deguerra
Durazzo: pever
Smyrna: rossahh
Arta: Andres
Aleppo: BB
Trebizond: 00jebus
Iconium: IK

Feudal Chains:

Cuddly Wuddly Warrior Monks:

Makedonios = Antypatos, TIR for Patrikios met
-Armatos = Hypatos
--Nathanail = Domestikos
---Iakovos = Comes
-Vissarionas
-Vartholomaios
-Stavros

Asterimata: (or Tagasteri) :laugh4:

Kalameteros = Dux
-Aleksios = Antypatos now, Patrikios in 5 turns
--Savvas = Antypatos, TIR in 5 turns
---Zigavinos = Hypatos
----Nevoulos = Domestikos
-----Efstathios Laskaris = Comes

Evil House: (Sorry, I couldn't help myself... :beam:)

Ioannis = Antypatos now, Patrikios in a few turns
-Pavlos = Antypatos, TIR in 5 turns
--Lisas = Comes
--Ioannis = Domestikos
---Hypatios = Comes
-Andronikos

The House that time forgot:

Michail = Comes
-Efstratios
-Annios Solomon

A House of one:

Apionnas = Comes

Everone else who is too cool to swear to someone...

[AussieGiant]

Well...I've sworn but it doesn't change anything :beam:

It's a one man house.

[Privateerkev]

Fixed... :laugh4:

[Kagemusha]

It might be that i will be Hypatos, once Oojebus comes online the next time, hopefully sooner rather then later. So Makedonias can prepare himself to start building an army for his friend Ioannis.:clown:

[AussieGiant]

Fixed... :laugh4:

Tanx :2thumbsup:

[Privateerkev]

It might be that i will be Hypatos, once Oojebus comes online the next time, hopefully sooner rather then later. So Makedonias can prepare himself to start building an army for his friend Ioannis.:clown:

With 39 units in the Caesar's House, I am sure Ioannis can gather together 6. :beam:

But we'll work something out... :yes:

[Andres]

Hi guys,


I'm terribly sorry, but I won't be able to continue playing. RL decided otherwise :shrug:

I asked TinCow to remove my avatar from play.

I hope to see you all back soon.

Cheers,

Andres.

[Privateerkev]

Hi guys,


I'm terribly sorry, but I won't be able to continue playing. RL decided otherwise :shrug:

I asked TinCow to remove my avatar from play.

I hope to see you all back soon.

Cheers,

Andres.

o_O

What happened!?!

I hope you can come back. ~:mecry:

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Now that was.. sudden.~:(

Hope you come back soon!

[AussieGiant]

Wow what happened there? I guess we wont know.

Hope everything is ok in real life Andres.

Cheers
AG

[_Tristan_]

Sad to see you go, Andres...

Methodios didn't even have time to share a drink with Savvas

Here's one to your prompt return in these parts ~:cheers:

[Warmaster Horus]

Hope RL isn't too bad, Andres. And of course I hope you can come back soon.

[Cecil XIX]

Sorry to see you go Andres. Be sure to hurry back so you and I can be on the same side one day. :2thumbsup:

[TinCow]

I am going to keep Andres' avatar alive for a little while, perhaps until the next Senate session, in case he is able to come back. However I will break his oaths and disperse his property in accordance with the will he just sent me. I'll take care of this later tonight.

[deguerra]

see above (as in a while back) comment about holes being blown in my ship.

sorry to see you go Andres, hope you can come back sometime!

[Ignoramus]

Sorry to see you go, Andres. Hopefully you'll be able to come back in time for Makedonios' execution.

[Privateerkev]

Sorry to see you go, Andres. Hopefully you'll be able to come back in time for Makedonios' execution.

You mean when Makedonios retires to Nicosia and sits on the beach sipping mint tea. :yes:

[ULC]

You mean your execution :evilgrin:.

:clown:

But seriously guys, I'm having some internet problems and work went from placid to hell in one day when a few guys decided to quite, and now I'm working for 2 people instead of idly by as an intern that was hired to sit on his bum...oh well, I should be on in the night, sorry to all those who grew accustomed to me omnipresence

[Privateerkev]

You mean your execution :evilgrin:.

What's that you say? You want to be kicked out of the feudal chain and declared war on next turn? :evil:

:clown:

[Privateerkev]

Alright, I need to leave earlier tomorrow than I thought. So I am going to open the save tonight. Since the poll is now closed, I assume this is ok.

So, my post in the Megas thread in a few minutes will officially open the save. Happy gaming and I'll see you guys in a couple days. :2thumbsup:

[Motep]

I will miss your ... personality in this game Andres. It made a good read. :bow:

[Motep]

Oh. Yes, relating to the actual gameplay, how many units am I allowed to take with me when I leave the capital, or none at all? What should I do in this regard?

[Ituralde]

Since Constantinople belongs to the Emperor you can not take any Units from its garrison unless you have the permission from OK. Same goes for every other settlement. You always need the permission of the person who the settlement belongs too.

Once you have taken the units you need the permission of the Megas to actually keep them. Since you don't own a Private or Royal Army all units you control once you are outside of a settlement are only there under the Megas discretion. He can abandon them at his own will.

So all things said, the only thing you are fully allowed to move right now is your avatar Andronikos Komnenos.

Cheers!

Ituralde

[deguerra]

None I am afraid. You are only allowed to use "your" units, which means units from a garrison of one of your cities, or units from a Private or Royal Army, which require a certain rank.

[Motep]

*scratches head* Ok.

[Kagemusha]

Im very sorry to hear that you are leaving Andres. I hope once things settle in real life, you will be back.:bow: Motep, since you dont own a army you dont have other units then your own bodyguards. That is why its is important to be part of the feudal chain, so the house can have more private armies.

[Motep]

How do I upload the .zip file?

[Kagemusha]

http://www.mizus.com/files/pbmupload.php

Use this tool.:yes:

[Motep]

http://www.mizus.com/files/pbmupload.php

Use this tool.:yes:


Thanks!

[TinCow]

Ok, I'm going to start working on a general advertisement/recruitment drive for LotR over the weekend. I will start putting up advertisement posts in some of the forums as part of this effort, and possibly on TWC as well. If anyone knows of specific people at the Org (or on other forums) who might enjoy LotR, you can help out by contacting them and promoting the game to them. I think this coming term should be a fun and exciting time for everyone, so it's the perfect time for new people to start joining in. The game is now developed enough to support over 40 players and the more we have, the more interesting it will get... so get out there and promote it to your friends!

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Well.. perhaps some of those people who were interested in WotB, that we are trying to set up, will also be interested of LotR. Will post in my thread in EB sub-forum.

[_Tristan_]

EDIT : nevermind...

[Smowz]

Anyone else having trouble with the Org uploader?

I had to put my file on rapidshare for now, sorry for the inconvenience.

[Ferret]

the backup one works fine: http://www.mizus.com/files/pbmupload.php

[TinCow]

Looks like I've got some editing of the feudal heirarchy table to do...

[Motep]

Just as a side note...I am a Scholar

[TinCow]

Ok, I think I've got the Feudal Table (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1925729&postcount=4) properly updated after the most recent upheavals. Please check the table and your bio to make sure it is correct. I will move around the in-game retinue titles next turn.

[pevergreen]

I think I am letting House Tepaki fall. Michail is unaligned.

Thanks, :bow:

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Well.. Arianitis can always join the Asteri! :clown:

Efstathios will be happy to gain a vassal :laugh4:

[Northnovas]

Hi guys,


I'm terribly sorry, but I won't be able to continue playing. RL decided otherwise :shrug:

I asked TinCow to remove my avatar from play.

I hope to see you all back soon.

Cheers,

Andres.

Andres sorry to hear and after all that hard negotiation you will not be able to enjoy the spoils. ~:doh:

Hope you get back soon we will keep your avatar parked just in case. I have been keeping a warm spot in Corinth. :grin:

Take care,

[Motep]

I am hoping my joining the new house can come with blessings and not cursings...:sweatdrop:

Sorry, Ignoramus, I do what I can to climb the ladder of power (plus, I would like to fight the egyptians in the warm an sunny desert)

[Warmaster Horus]

I know it's not the 24th in the States yet, but Happy Birthday Tincow!

[deguerra]

close enough. Happy Bday TC! :birthday2::balloon2:

[Motep]

close enough. Happy Bday TC! :birthday2::balloon2:

Agreed. Enjoy yourself on your biryhday, Tincow!

[ULC]

Happy Birthday TC! :balloon: :balloon2: :balloon3:

[Northnovas]

Happy Birthday TC! ~:cheers:

[TinCow]

It's still August 23rd my time. I have 1.5 hours left of being in my 20s.

[Northnovas]

It's still August 23rd my time. I have 1.5 hours left of being in my 20s.

Interesting birthday number I found the the 30 the most profound. It was a transitional year looking back.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Thirty is the new twenty, at least according to the popular expression, so don't feel too bad. :2thumbsup:

[Motep]

nevermind...

half an hour off...

[Ramses II CP]

Happy Birthday TC. I heartily recommend going the full black decor, over the hill routine at 30. It'll never be funny again. (I'm 32, but trust me :laugh4:)

:egypt:

[Motep]

Okay, Is now past. Happy Birthday, Tincow (for now, it is true for you!)

[Cecil XIX]

Happy birthday, Tincow! :balloon: :balloon2:

[pevergreen]

May be a bit inactive soon, exams/QCS/emotional torment.

lol.

edit: indeed, happy birthday!

[AussieGiant]

Happy Birthday TC!!

You're at the top, enjoy it...there is only a one way to go now!! :balloon2:

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Happy Birthday TinCow! :bow: :balloon:

[Rowan]

Happy birthday Tincow! :balloon2:

[_Tristan_]

Happy Birthday Tincow !!

Welcome to the roaring thirties !!

[Ibn-Khaldun]

I wonder who will be the next Grandmaster of the Order if Makedonios can't raise his piety within the next ~10 turns.:clown:

EDIT: 700th post! :balloon2:

[Ramses II CP]

I think loss of piety due to illness was made exempt under the rules, since the SS 4.1 illnesses are decades long.

:egypt:

[Ibn-Khaldun]

And I was so looking forward to see who becomes the next Grandmaster! :laugh4:

[Kagemusha]

Happy birthday Tincow!:horn: I still have couple months left before i turn the same amount.

[Smowz]

Heh, i turn that awful amount next year too!!!

Happy birthday TC.

[Privateerkev]

I just spent 7 hours in a car, I have hardly slept in 2 days, and I have a hangover. I need to get caught up and then I will officially take the save back.

Thank you to everyone for your patience. Things should move smooth and quick from now on. :bow:

[AussieGiant]

the slight delay was perfect PK.

i got my story up and in time. :balloon2:

Get some pain killers into you fella, that will make it all feel better again.

[Privateerkev]

First off, Happy Birthday TC! :medievalcheers:

I'm hitting the big three-oh in early October myself.



I wonder who will be the next Grandmaster of the Order if Makedonios can't raise his piety within the next ~10 turns.:clown:

I rewrote the rules a long time ago to exempt illnesses. We've also been exempting Nathanail's "slave to superstition" trait. SS's trait system is far too buggy to let it have that much control over the Order's internal politics.


the slight delay was perfect PK.

i got my story up and in time. :balloon2:

Get some pain killers into you fella, that will make it all feel better again.

I'm glad people were able to make use of it. Seems that some things happened while I was gone. :2thumbsup:

[Ferret]

I rewrote the rules a long time ago to exempt illnesses. We've also been exempting Nathanail's "slave to superstition" trait. SS's trait system is far too buggy to let it have that much control over the Order's internal politics.

So basically you rewrote the rules so that you'd always be Grandmaster? :clown:
Seeing as Pagan Magicians can also be removed I don't think there are any other ways to lower piety, and if there are they are very uncommon/dread related.

edit: Happy 30th TC :balloon:

[Ibn-Khaldun]

OOC:

I'm taking the save back. This might be a couple hours. My first time doing this.

Plus I'm still a little woozy so the chance of error is high. Don't be surprised if we end up owning Scotland next turn... :laugh4:

If we end up owning Scotland then it's not that big deal but if we end up being Scotland then we have a problem in our hands! :clown:

[AussieGiant]

If we end up owning Scotland then it's not that big deal but if we end up being Scotland then we have a problem in our hands! :clown:

that's pretty funny :laugh4:

[Privateerkev]

So basically you rewrote the rules so that you'd always be Grandmaster? :clown:

No, if the "Knights" of the Order want a new Grandmaster, then I would step down. I don't mind if there are IC politics that change the internal makeup of the Order. What I did mind was losing power because of a buggy, lame, unrealistic, sickness trait system that I didn't even know about when I first wrote the Charter.

The "2 chiv, 3 piety" rules were to try to make sure a certain level of chivalry would remain alive in the Order. Being "sick" though was not something I intended and I thought allowing that to dictate rank would take away more than it gave so I re-wrote it. Since no one wants to lose positions due to "40 year pneumonia," there was no dissent in the Order over this.

:clown:

[flyd]

Just a quick comment on the current Laskaris-Tagaris argument in the Magnaura. The ghost of Markianos Ampelas fully approves the use of his name and legacy for political maneuvering, if such maneuvering is directed against Methodios Tagaris. :laugh4:

[Privateerkev]

In response to the conversation in the Megas thread:

You guys are right. Sorry, I forgot about that. I will PM Ramses and Rowan the link. Per KP's wishes, it will be first come, first served, between those two players.

[TinCow]

So basically you rewrote the rules so that you'd always be Grandmaster?

You're talking like manipulation on that order is a bad thing... :laugh4:

Even the most holy and pious Pope had to declare himself 'infallible.' Ah, where's Lothar and Arnold when you need them? Oh, that's right... ruling the world. :laugh4:

[Privateerkev]

You're talking like manipulation on that order is a bad thing... :laugh4:

Even the most holy and pious Pope had to declare himself 'infallible.' Ah, where's Lothar and Arnold when you need them? Oh, that's right... ruling the world. :laugh4:

wait... didn't Lothar and Arnold basically do the same thing with the Illuminati? :laugh4:

[ULC]

I am announcing my most likely withdrawal from LotR. It seems I have made it as least fun as possible for far to many people, so I think it best if I simply leave. I am sorry if this inconveniences people who were in the middle of any story line with me, I'll do my best to try and finish those. I am sorry for all I have done and I am sorry for what I will leave unfinished.

:bow:

[pevergreen]

Hey, if you feel as though one of those people is me, dont. I enjoyed it, I was seriously going to join, until Annios broke the oath, and Michail actually bothered to read the Charter. He was upset at Efstratios dieing as well. For the first time in his life Michail is being contacted with offers. :laugh4:

[AussieGiant]

I am announcing my most likely withdrawal from LotR. It seems I have made it as least fun as possible for far to many people, so I think it best if I simply leave. I am sorry if this inconveniences people who were in the middle of any story line with me, I'll do my best to try and finish those. I am sorry for all I have done and I am sorry for what I will leave unfinished.

:bow:

Maate, what are you talking about?

I can't speak for anyone else of course, but I really don't think your statement is accurate.

It would be a blow to the game to have you leave YLC.

Please reconsider.

[Ituralde]

Maate, what are you talking about?

I can't speak for anyone else of course, but I really don't think your statement is accurate.

It would be a blow to the game to have you leave YLC.

Please reconsider.

I have to agree one hundred percent!

[deguerra]

I have to agree one hundred percent!

what they said

[deguerra]

before the argument on the Caesar's Armenian Cavalry gets any further, that was my fault.

Igno asked me to move his character. He did not specify to only move his character, but that may well have been his intention. To be honest, it never occurred to me to question whether the unit should be moved as well. I suppose in retrospect its obvious enough that one unit couldn't have been his army, but I really didn't think about it.

:oops:

[Privateerkev]

before the argument on the Caesar's Armenian Cavalry gets any further, that was my fault.

Igno asked me to move his character. He did not specify to only move his character, but that may well have been his intention. To be honest, it never occurred to me to question whether the unit should be moved as well. I suppose in retrospect its obvious enough that one unit couldn't have been his army, but I really didn't think about it.

:oops:

I figured it was a mistake so I haven't pushed it OOC. IC however I believe it is entirely appropriate to blame his avatar for the mistake. If you don't want the law broken with your avatar, you need to be careful who you let control him. :beam:

[TinCow]

before the argument on the Caesar's Armenian Cavalry gets any further, that was my fault.

Igno asked me to move his character. He did not specify to only move his character, but that may well have been his intention. To be honest, it never occurred to me to question whether the unit should be moved as well. I suppose in retrospect its obvious enough that one unit couldn't have been his army, but I really didn't think about it.

:oops:

A shame I didn't read this 10 minutes ago. Thank you for clarifying the situation. I want to make it known that intentional rule violations will be dealt with very harshly in the future. Laxity has not served this game well and so it's time to start imposing penalties.

Unintentional rule violations (as with the above) will not be punished, as long as they are not repeated. If they are repeated, they will be considered intentional.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

A shame I didn't read this 10 minutes ago. Thank you for clarifying the situation. I want to make it known that intentional rule violations will be dealt with very harshly in the future. Laxity has not served this game well and so it's time to start imposing penalties.

Unintentional rule violations (as with the above) will not be punished, as long as they are not repeated. If they are repeated, they will be considered intentional.

Can I ask what will be the punishment then?

[deguerra]

Sorry TC, I should have clarified that sooner.

As for your measures, those seem fine to me. I'll be more careful in the future.

[TinCow]

I will determine the punishment on a case by case basis. However, depending on the severity of the infraction they may include one or more of the following things:

1) Breaking of all oaths of fealty with a 5 turn penalty on re-swearing, and all the IC consequences that will result from this.
2) Loss of provinces.
3) Suspension from the game.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Thanks TC.
I'm bit smarter now. Hope that I wouldn't break any rules then. :beam:

[TinCow]

Again, I don't want to be a hardass, but this game won't work properly if the rules are violated. I really hope no one takes any of this personally, because I like ALL of the players in this game, but I'm the guy in charge and so it's my responsibility to deal with this stuff. I will not impose any penalties without allowing a person to speak in their own defense, but if a rule violation is intentional and/or repeated, I simply HAVE to punish it. I know the rules are complex, so if anyone EVER has any questions about whether something is legal or not, all you need to do is ask me. I will do my best to respond very quickly.

[deguerra]

just for the record, I understand your position, support it fully and thank you for all the hard work and willingness to be the bad guy in situations like these. :shame:

edit: me? sucking up to the event-er? never! :clown:

[Northnovas]

Just to clarify from my point and degurra's defence. I moved the cavlary unit at his request when I took the save because it hadn't moved from his save. I did not examine the stack or think there was an issue with the request. Though I am aware now of the rule moving avatas and the SOT. I can't keep abreast of all the rules everytime I am looking at the game. Hell I can't even remember the rank I have or what it involves.

I was unaware of the IC issues or politcal motives of avatars involved. I just followed a simple request from the last save. There is no agenda on my part or I feel on degurra's. There may have been some poor instructions in the initial request made has mentioned and technically should not have been made with the rule regarding avatar movement.

The mentioning of rules being broken should be made to an individual by pm rather then a very wide brush painting a picture that there is something more sinsiter involved when that is far from the truth.

[TinCow]

The mentioning of rules being broken should be made to an individual by pm rather then a very wide brush painting a picture that there is something more sinsiter involved when that is far from the truth.

The responses in here were made because it was brought up in the Magnaura. I have been heavily criticized in the not-so-distant past for doing nothing regarding rule violations, and the way it was initially brought up seemed to indicate that it was once again Igno who had broken a rule. I posted in the Magnaura in an attempt to head off a discussion that I expected to occur on that subject. I also PMed the parties involved. I then read deguerra's post indicating that he had made the move, not Igno, so I quickly back-pedaled, but decided to keep my public stance on rule violations out there just so that people would know that I am going to deal with it properly in the future. My posts were merely intended as information and not criticism of anyone.

Apparently I have once again botched my job as GM. Hopefully I'll get it right at some point in the future, because this is getting demoralizing.

[Privateerkev]

Sorry, I realize my OOC joke in the Senate about us not punishing "rule breakers" OOC, was in bad taste. I didn't think about the fact that there have been some real OOC debate and tension about the issue.

My stance in the Magnaura with this has been IC only. But the OOC joke was in poor taste so I apologize. :bow:

[TinCow]

Sorry, I realize my OOC joke in the Senate about us not punishing "rule breakers" OOC, was in bad taste. I didn't think about the fact that there have been some real OOC debate and tension about the issue.

My stance in the Magnaura with this has been IC only. But the OOC joke was in poor taste so I apologize. :bow:

It's not your fault, NN was right to call me on my actions. I should have taken a closer look at the situation and figured out what exactly had occurred before doing anything. Even then I should have done it privately and not through public posts. I am entirely in error on this. I've been under a bit of stress over the past week and I would like to think that it has impaired my judgment slightly and made me post before thinking. However, even if that's true it's still my responsibility and I'm the one who screwed up. It is therefore me who needs to apologize, not anyone else.

I do feel like I'm finally getting a hang of this job. I had no idea whatsoever that I was going to have to undertake this kind of a role when I created this game. I've been so used to econ21 handling all mod-related problems that it has all come as something of a harsh reality to me. I am adapting and learning from my errors and I do promise you that I will get it right in the future.

[Privateerkev]

I do feel like I'm finally getting a hang of this job. I had no idea whatsoever that I was going to have to undertake this kind of a role when I created this game. I've been so used to econ21 handling all mod-related problems that it has all come as something of a harsh reality to me. I am adapting and learning from my errors and I do promise you that I will get it right in the future.

Seeing as your main job seems to be balancing out all of our wildly erratic and different personalities, I think you are doing fine. :2thumbsup:

I imagine we are not an easy group of cats to herd. :no:

[Northnovas]

:stop: Nothing to see here move along.

:help:I have a question about Druzzo, who currently owns the settlement. It was discussed in some negotiations with Andres. I would just like to know the current ownership.

[Ferret]

I like ALL of the players in this game

Even me? :clown:

And don't worry you're doing great as GM, I think it is good to make your stance on rule violations public, as it makes people more careful about what they do in future, thus minimizing the chance of us breaking the rules in future. :2thumbsup:

edit: I think pever owns Durazzo

[Ibn-Khaldun]

NN .. I think pevergreen owns Durazzo..

[AussieGiant]

TC, I told you man...you're 30...if you think it gets better you just so wrong!! :balloon2:

**********

I'm giving you grief because I love ya mate!!

You're doing a great job! This is so more complex than KotR it's has to be understandable by everyone here.


By the way. Happy birthday :clown:

[Northnovas]

NN .. I think pevergreen owns Durazzo..

Thanks, I will check with him.




TC, I told you man...you're 30...if you think it gets better you just so wrong!! :balloon2:

**********

I'm giving you grief because I love ya mate!!

You're doing a great job! This is so more complex than KotR it's has to be understandable by everyone here.


By the way. Happy birthday :clown:

I already told him but it does get better over time it takes time. Just takes time my friend.
More complex than KotR is an understatement it is still all Greek to me. :jester:

[Ituralde]

Before I respond to anything of this IC, I'd like to get the OOC side straight. There are two issues currently.

1) Where does the power come from, that the Megas can seize units, that are under the command of a general at the beginning of a turn? The only rule about it that I can find is the following.


1.4 – Game Management: At the start of each turn, the Megas Logothetes will post an annual report on the events of the last turn, including a save game file for the new turn. After the annual report is posted, players will have 24 hours to download the save, and make their personal moves. Players can move their avatars, move any army (Private, Royal, or otherwise) their avatar commands, move any military units that start the turn inside a settlement they control (garrison units), move any military units that start the turn inside a fort in a province they control (fort units), and fight any battles against the AI that they are capable of fighting with their avatar’s army. The Megas Logothetes may move any avatar or army that has not been moved in this way as he best sees fit, including moves that result in battles, except that he cannot move a player’s avatar, Private/Royal Army, garrison units, or fort units in any manner that player has expressly prohibited.

The highlight is mine. I always understood that once the turn ends the Megas can do anything to units that weren't moved or disband those that were indeed moved. But before that all units that an avatar commands can be moved by that avatar. I haven't found anything in the powers part of the rules either. So is there even an OOC rule that was accidentally broken here?

2) Who designates which units belong to a Royal/Private Army? I haven't found anything in the rules about this, so I guess this falls to the Basileus who adjugates on rule disputes?
I figured it might cause problems IC what I did IC, but so far few people have bothered to exactly name the units that make up their PA/RA.
Once again we're close to the touchy subject of PAs/RAs and how the Megas can interact with them, bound by OOC rules, and by IC rules.
For example I could just as well have said, that Ioannis Kantakouzinos leads Pavlos PA and since Ioannis Kantakouzinos only has one Cavalry Unit, the Megas would be forced by the OOC rules to recruit the missing Infantry and missile units. I could even do it now in response to the Megas declaring my former move illegal. So I counter an IC measure from the Megas with an IC measure of mine that leads to retaliation on an OOC basis.

The more I think on the whole PA/RA business it creates a complete IC/OOC mess for me and I often find myself at a loss how to deal with this in an IC context.


So those are the two issues I have. I'm already curious about your responses! :beam:

[AussieGiant]

Thanks, I will check with him.

I already told him but it does get better over time it takes time. Just takes time my friend.
More complex than KotR is an understatement it is still all Greek to me. :jester:

You shouldn't have done that. I gave TC a big speech on nearly being dead...mid life crisis issues and sagging body parts :beam:

Ahh the good old days NN. Just you me and endless amounts of Hungarian's and Venetian's.

The eastern front they called it. Where men were murderers and drinking blood was all in vogue :clown:

[Ituralde]

Just an addendum to my point 2).

I think the rules would support what I did with Pavlos. They say that I own a Private Army. Later on it is said that my army consists of so and so much troops. Where those troops are is never mentioned. So the Megas can't take those units away from me, no matter where they are.
Just my take on it. It makes more sense for the general to say where his troops are than for the Megas to say this. Of course always accounting for garrison related things from the SoT! :beam:

[Privateerkev]

Before I respond to anything of this IC, I'd like to get the OOC side straight. There are two issues currently.

1) Where does the power come from, that the Megas can seize units, that are under the command of a general at the beginning of a turn? The only rule about it that I can find is the following.



The highlight is mine. I always understood that once the turn ends the Megas can do anything to units that weren't moved or disband those that were indeed moved. But before that all units that an avatar commands can be moved by that avatar. I haven't found anything in the powers part of the rules either. So is there even an OOC rule that was accidentally broken here?

The Megas can seize anything that isn't currently locked, or started the turn locked.

So, once a unit starts its turn out in the field, and it is not in a legal army, the Megas can "seize" it.

I don't know if we can use the "how to be Megas" post as "canon" but here is a good quote:


You may also remove any unit from a stack commanded by another player’s avatar, as long as that stack is not a Royal or Private Army. Avatars in commands like this are essentially serving at your pleasure, and you can use their units however you want.

What this means is, if you start a turn with a unit(s) out in the field, and it isn't a PA/RA, then you can only use that unit at the Megas's pleasure.


2) Who designates which units belong to a Royal/Private Army? I haven't found anything in the rules about this, so I guess this falls to the Basileus who adjugates on rule disputes?
I figured it might cause problems IC what I did IC, but so far few people have bothered to exactly name the units that make up their PA/RA.
Once again we're close to the touchy subject of PAs/RAs and how the Megas can interact with them, bound by OOC rules, and by IC rules.
For example I could just as well have said, that Ioannis Kantakouzinos leads Pavlos PA and since Ioannis Kantakouzinos only has one Cavalry Unit, the Megas would be forced by the OOC rules to recruit the missing Infantry and missile units. I could even do it now in response to the Megas declaring my former move illegal. So I counter an IC measure from the Megas with an IC measure of mine that leads to retaliation on an OOC basis.

The more I think on the whole PA/RA business it creates a complete IC/OOC mess for me and I often find myself at a loss how to deal with this in an IC context.


So those are the two issues I have. I'm already curious about your responses! :beam:

You designate what units are yours but you only get 1 "stack." You can not "claim" multiple stacks in the field are parts of your one army. It is one army = one stack. As long as the Megas makes sure the army is up to "code," he can ignore all of the other "claims" made on seperate units. If you want certain units to become part of your army, you need to find ways to jump them from one lockable structure to another so the Megas can not seize them.

One thing to keep in mind, is that if a unit started a turn in a locked structure, then the Megas can not disband it that same turn. But he can next turn. Which is what I've been doing. :beam:

*edit*

And yes, you can claim that only the cavalry is your current army and the former army is a garrison. This is what I call "garrison dumping." While legal OOC I will guarentee harsh IC consequences. ^_^

[AussieGiant]

Ituralde,

I see your point but honestly, it is perfectly acceptable for me as Megas to interpret the rules as I "think" they were intended to be designed.

That might sound overbearing and arrogant but I simply could not stand this type of conduct.

If someone pulled a move like that I'd simply overrule them, tell them straight that it's BS and keep on moving. If they didn't like it then I'd hand it over to TC.

You have an army, it's a RA or PA, if you want to try and reclassify it or do something like that then bad luck.

The issue I have now is the slippery slope of introducing more and more verbiage to try and resolve this type of stuff. By introducing more verbiage you provide more material to "interpret", it becomes a never ending cycle.

In Australian Law, applying "Common Sense" is still allowed. In some respects it is the exact opposite of the US legal system and it does have it's advantages :beam:

I have a few US law friends who secretly wish for something similar.

[Privateerkev]

You have an army, it's a RA or PA, if you want to try and reclassify it or do something like that then bad luck.

The issue I have now is the slippery slope of introducing more and more verbiage to try and resolve this type of stuff. By introducing more verbiage you provide more material to "interpret", it becomes a never ending cycle.

He can claim his army is now a "garrison," lock it in, and demand a new shiny army based around that one cavalry unit. This would be perfectly legal OOC. IC, the Megas does have many tools to make sure punishment would be harsh and swift however. :yes:

For one, the Megas can refuse to recruit or build anything in the Empire at all until he unlocks the "garrison." Good old fashioned peer pressure could work wonders... :laugh4:

[Ibn-Khaldun]

For one, the Megas can refuse to recruit or build anything in the Empire at all until he unlocks the "garrison." Good old fashioned peer pressure could work wonders... :laugh4:

Now.. And how long that Megas will stay in power if he does something like that to person who have a lot of support?? :beam:
If the Megas will irritate others too much then soon his relations with others would look like this = :tomato2: And the things that will fly towards the Megas wouldn't be tomatos but some pointy sticks instead:yes:

[Ituralde]

So concerning point 1) you agree with me that there is nothing about this in the Rules? Which means that there is no actual OOC rule broken? IC this might lead to some discussion, but this is not one of those terrible OOC rule breaks, we're talking about here, right?


As to point 2) I can agree that we interpret the rules in the way you described. Meaning a PA/RA always has to be one single stack. I had interpreted it differently before, but I can see your point.

[Privateerkev]

Now.. And how long that Megas will stay in power if he does something like that to person who have a lot of support?? :beam:
If the Megas will irritate others too much then soon his relations with others would look like this = :tomato2: And the things that will fly towards the Megas wouldn't be tomatos but some pointy sticks instead:yes:

It is a balancing act. It takes 2/3rds to impeach the Megas. Not to mention the fact that only 2 people in the game right now can call an emergency session.

So, as Megas, you need to keep enough people happy to ensure your position, while also compelling people to follow your orders. Garrsion dumping is one of those things that the Megas can only enforce IC. He'd have to make the case that the practice is hurting the Empire. (And with such a weak economy, that would be a fairly easy case ATM.)

There are many "tools" of diplomacy he can use. One is to shut down all spending for a year. Then, as long as a little more than 1/3 of the Senators agree with him, he can keep doing it until the offender concedes.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

That's true..

But still Megas should be careful because if he makes too maky enemies then they might gang up on him :beam: And that means the Megas might find a sword or two(or three) in his body :yes::beam:

[Privateerkev]

So concerning point 1) you agree with me that there is nothing about this in the Rules? Which means that there is no actual OOC rule broken? IC this might lead to some discussion, but this is not one of those terrible OOC rule breaks, we're talking about here, right?

No, its in the rules but you already quoted the rule and TC said it better in the "how to be Megas" post.

Here is the rule:


1.4 – Game Management: At the start of each turn, the Megas Logothetes will post an annual report on the events of the last turn, including a save game file for the new turn. After the annual report is posted, players will have 24 hours to download the save, and make their personal moves. Players can move their avatars, move any army (Private, Royal, or otherwise) their avatar commands, move any military units that start the turn inside a settlement they control (garrison units), move any military units that start the turn inside a fort in a province they control (fort units), and fight any battles against the AI that they are capable of fighting with their avatar’s army. The Megas Logothetes may move any avatar or army that has not been moved in this way as he best sees fit, including moves that result in battles, except that he cannot move a player’s avatar, Private/Royal Army, garrison units, or fort units in any manner that player has expressly prohibited. Any player involved in a Civil War may give permission for another player to move their avatar and armies by posting that information in a public thread. The Megas Logothetes may extend the time limit beyond 24 hours at his discretion, but all players are encouraged to act as swiftly as possible to keep the game moving. 1.4 Addendum - Players may not move avatars or armies into the territory of a neutral or allied faction without the permission of the Basileus. Nor may they attack the settlements or armies of neutral or allied factions without a declaration of war from the Basileus, a Megas Dux/Exarch or an Edict. (Added by CA 2.1.)

So, since that Armenian Cav started this turn out of a garrison/fort/PA/RA, it can not be locked by any player. Since it can not be locked, the Megas has full and complete control over it. He can order it moved somewhere else, not moved at all, or disbanded.

I don't know what TC meant by "otherwise" but I don't believe it was meant to allow people to move units all over the board without the Megas's permission. If something is not locked in an army/fort/settlement, then that unit is the property of the Megas and can only be used by others with his express permission.

So, unless I can be convinced that a single unit in the field, is an "otherwise army," when we have never ever described "otherwise armies," then I will keep going by the route I am going.


As to point 2) I can agree that we interpret the rules in the way you described. Meaning a PA/RA always has to be one single stack. I had interpreted it differently before, but I can see your point.

I just got that from TC earlier today. I saw your SOT post claiming two differnt "stacks" as your army so I wanted to be sure.

[TinCow]

I am responding to this, please hold on the rules debate for a moment.

[TinCow]

Alright, let's see if I can clarify this. I see the confusion that arises from "or otherwise" in Rule 1.4. That language might warrant an edit at the next Senate session to avoid further confusion. For now, I think it will help to do a review of the overall situation of what a person can command.

The only armies that an avatar can actually own are PAs, RAs, and garrisons (of settlements and forts). Everything outside of those armies is subject to the whims of the Megas. If he says you can use an army that isn't one of the above and move it however you want, then you can. If he says you can't, then you can't. A good baseline would be to simply identify your "owned" armies and then to consider everything else as belonging to the Megas exclusively.

So, we then need to determine what qualifies as an owned army. Garrisons of settlements and forts are easy, because they are aways located in the same place. Remove them, and they are no longer a garrison and thus no longer "owned" unless they happen to have been moved into a PA/RA.

As for what constitutes a PA/RA, that isn't stated by the rules. My intention was that a PA/RA be a single stack of units and thus anything that is not inside that stack would not be "owned." However, since it isn't in the rules I think it's fair to let the Megas determine if he wants to allow multiple stacks to constitute the PA/RA. If the Megas says two stacks are your PA, then those two stacks are yours to move as you see fit. However, if the Megas says that you can only have one stack as your PA, you'll have to pick one. Whatever is not in that stack can be disposed of as the Megas sees fit.

Now, this doesn't mean that your army just evaporates. The Megas still has to make sure you meet the minimum requirements. If taking the second stack away from you results in you falling below the minimum requirements, he has to replace it with other units that meet the requirements. However, he is free to replace them with very poor quality units, such as PK has already done for a couple avatars.

This is the risk that you take by having a hostile Megas in power. If you are not careful, he can steal your army away and replace it with weak cannon fodder. It is very highly recommended that all players keep their PAs/RAs in a single stack which is clearly IDed in the SOT. If it needs to be reinforced, hammer the Megas IC and OOC to do so, but you should still consider that single stack alone to be your PA/RA. This is particularly important when it comes to owning high-quality units. If you happen to get your hands on a really good quality unit, you need to take care of it. Do NOT let it out of your sight and be careful not to let it die in battle because if you lose it you have no guarantees that it will replaced with something of the same quality.

In general, PAs and RAs are intended to be the equivalent of a massive bodyguard for your avatar. It goes where you go and is centered around you alone. If you give command of your PA/RA to someone else, then it is centered around that person until you resume command or shift it to a completely different person. If you split your army up intentionally, you are risking the Megas exploiting the split and should thus only do it if the Megas is friendly to you.

Remember... a hostile Megas IS BAD. If someone wins an election who is hostile to you, the best response is to hunker down and conserve your forces until a more friendly Megas can be put into power (either by waiting for the next election or choosing 'other' methods to get rid of the current one). If you keep campaigning and expanding your territory, you risk losing the forces you have accumulated. It is far, far safer to campaign under a friendly Megas than a hostile Megas. A friendly Megas should be considered a time of a 'good harvest.' You will gain territories, your settlements will be improved, and your armies will increase in size and quality. A hostile Megas should be considered a time of a 'bad harvest.' You will most likely have to make due with whatever resources you have managed to save up and anything you waste during that time will be very difficult to replace.


1) Where does the power come from, that the Megas can seize units, that are under the command of a general at the beginning of a turn? The only rule about it that I can find is the following.

This is thinking about the situation backwards. The Megas never has to seize anything, because it all belongs to him. The only people who can seize anything are the other players. If it's not in your garrison, RA, or PA, then it wasn't yours in the first place. The Megas can allow you to move units that are not yours, but you do not have any legal ownership over them. Again the "or otherwise" language is definitely confusing, and I will mark that down on my list of things to correct at the next Senate session.

[TinCow]

FYI, it is my intention to create two more instructional posts in the FAQ/Rules thread. One will be entitled So You Want To Be An Exarch and it will be a guide for regular players on how to gain rank and power and avoid being manhandled by the Megas. If you know anything about D&D, the Exarch guide will be the 'Player's Handbook' to complement the Megas guide, which is the 'DM's Handbook.' The second one will be entitled the Code of Conduct and will be a set of rules on OOC behavior in LotR. This will be a BINDING set of rules that I will be imposing as a moderator of the Throne Room, not as GM of LotR. This will deal with general OOC issues, such as violation of LotR rules, using other players' characters in stories without their permission, and similar issues which must be addressed outside of the game.

[Privateerkev]

Remember... a hostile Megas IS BAD. If someone wins an election who is hostile to you, the best response is to hunker down and conserve your forces until a more friendly Megas can be put into power (either by waiting for the next election or choosing 'other' methods to get rid of the current one).

Order players know all about hunkering down. We did it last term. And in the two terms before that, we walked on eggshells since neither Megas was exactly "friendly." So, I know how nerve wracking it can be to bite your fingernails wondering if your non-PA will get disbanded out from under you. Because of that, I am trying to keep things as bright and cheery OOC as possible. If anyone has a problem, talk to me OOC and I'll let you know where I am coming from. I want to punish characters, not players, and I hope my actions come off that way.

Those who are on Mak's bad side will have to hunker down, pucker up, or put together a coalition to oppose him. Or some combination of all three... :yes:



This is thinking about the situation backwards. The Megas never has to seize anything, because it all belongs to him. The only people who can seize anything are the other players. If it's not in your garrison, RA, or PA, then it wasn't yours in the first place. The Megas can allow you to move units that are not yours, but you do not have any legal ownership over them. Again the "or otherwise" language is definitely confusing, and I will mark that down on my list of things to correct at the next Senate session.

That was my fault for using the "seizing" language in the SOT. I'll use different verbage. :2thumbsup:

Reclaim is probably more accurate...

[_Tristan_]

To answer WH question about Methodios "punishment" in the Megas thread, I have the battle report ready but as it is tied with a story using Kosmas (Zim's character), I'd like to check it out with him first...

[Ituralde]

I want to thank TinCow for clearing up all those things. I think everybody should have a better understanding of how things work now. It was never my intention to harm anybody with my interpretation of the rules, I hope it didn't come across that way. I am, as ever just curious to learn more about the game rules. The clearer the situation is the easier it is for me to act within the boundaries presented and know where I stand!

I'm glad we settled all of this OOC and although I now also bicker about a bit IC, I just want to let you know PK that from an OOC point everything is clarified and fine for me!

Happy gaming everybody!

Cheers!

Ituralde

[Privateerkev]

I want to thank TinCow for clearing up all those things. I think everybody should have a better understanding of how things work now. It was never my intention to harm anybody with my interpretation of the rules, I hope it didn't come across that way. I am, as ever just curious to learn more about the game rules. The clearer the situation is the easier it is for me to act within the boundaries presented and know where I stand!

I'm glad we settled all of this OOC and although I now also bicker about a bit IC, I just want to let you know PK that from an OOC point everything is clarified and fine for me!

Happy gaming everybody!

Cheers!

Ituralde

Everyone reads the rules differently so it's helpful to have others bring up questions on issues. Even if you yourself think you know the answer. Because you simply might not think of something a certain way.

Here is to IC bickering! :medievalcheers:

[TinCow]

It was never my intention to harm anybody with my interpretation of the rules, I hope it didn't come across that way. I am, as ever just curious to learn more about the game rules. The clearer the situation is the easier it is for me to act within the boundaries presented and know where I stand!

This is why I am going to write the Exarch guide and the Code of Conduct. The Rules needs to be enforced, but that can't realistically be done unless people understand exactly what the rules are. I understand them just fine, but I wrote them and thought about them for a good 6 months before we even started playing. No one else should ever be expected to know the rules as well as I do. It is thus my responsibility to make sure that they are explained properly in a manner that can be understood by all. This is a complex game and I have worked, and will continue to work, to make it as easy to play as possible.

I appreciate you all being patient with the constant rule issues that pop up. It's a work in progress and this is bound to continue for some time to come. I hope there's still some enjoyment being had underneath all of the confusion.

[AussieGiant]

Love your work TC!!

The gift of explanation is overpowering in you!!! :2thumbsup:

[AussieGiant]

And does anyone know where the Emperor and Patriarch are...I need to have a chat now I'm not strapped to a chair like I'm in a James Bond film!! :clown:

[ULC]

:brood:

Well, after some the rather convincing deluge of PM's sent my way, I guess I will have to stay. I do intend though to be switching Avatars, depending on a response i am waiting for, which will make slight alterations in current storyline. I'll pm TC with details :bow:

[Privateerkev]

YLC, I am afraid you are quite stuck with us...

:2thumbsup:

[ULC]

All adhesives wear off...I'll just bide my time...

:clown:

[Ramses II CP]

So while I was writing the battle report for the bridge near Cairo it occurred to me that not a single time during the battle did I see any Egyptian Desert Archers fire their bows. Can anyone confirm whether or not they are broken? Might make it rather difficult for the Fatamids to defend Cairo if a chunk of their archers can't shoot. I also noticed that Turkomen substantially outrange Vards even though Vards supposedly have 'very long range...' Not that I'd complain about Vards being cranked down. :laugh4:

I hope KoP got a good trait or two for that battle. :2thumbsup:

:egypt:

[Privateerkev]

I hope KoP got a good trait or two for that battle. :2thumbsup:

He got a few. I think he got a shieldbearer. He got "fine with blood" and a couple others. And he got a MotH offer which I am still waiting on Motep to decline/accept.

[AussieGiant]

Hi Ramses,

I've been playing a number of campaigns with SS 4.1 and I can confirm that archers in general need to be manually prompted to fire very frequently.

:brood: :oops:

[ULC]

Second part taken care of :bow:. Please read the story thread.

[Motep]

I am waiting on KP to respond to my message. I will not adopt him if it is against his wishes. If he wants it, I shall.

[Privateerkev]

Well, it is really up to you. I would like to know before I take the save back tomorrow afternoon.

[Motep]

If he does not respond by the time you have to move onto the next turn, PK, accept the MoH.

Ill take a gander at my "adoptee"

I will not make any changes with the save and will remove it afterwords, so I will not bother announcing that I have taken it.

[OverKnight]

To those of you who PMed me over the weekend, if work allows I'll be catching up on my correspondence a bit later.

[Rowan]

No one in this game can ever pronounce my avatars name right. It's not that hard: Vart-holo-maios Ksiros. Vartholomaios.

:laugh4:

[_Tristan_]

Though IC Methodios will face anything thrown his way, I want everybody to know that OOC I sacked Alexandria both for public order and to raise our treasury...

If only Zim would come online and give me his go with the story, perhaps judgment would be less fierce :wall: :yes:

Now that said, criticize and punish all you like...:2thumbsup:

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Actually.. I would have done the same thing if I would have seen that public order is in red:yes:

[AussieGiant]

Though IC Methodios will face anything thrown his way, I want everybody to know that OOC I sacked Alexandria both for public order and to raise our treasury...


Well that's all just dandy in theoretical OOC world. Unfortunately Apionnas doesn't get to live there and therefore will never take that into consideration.

I’m not trying to sound harsh but this type of disclosure is a little confusing.

:balloon2:

[_Tristan_]

What I'm getting at AG, is that I knew full well what might befell Methodios when I chose this option but the mechanics of the game "almost" forced my hand...

If this diclosure sounds confusing to you, just keep on berating Methodios for what he did...:2thumbsup:

[AussieGiant]

What I'm getting at AG, is that I knew full well what might befell Methodios when I chose this option but the mechanics of the game "almost" forced my hand...

If this diclosure sounds confusing to you, just keep on berating Methodios for what he did...:2thumbsup:


Alright thanks for the information.

I'm not sure how a game forces your hand...but I'm prepared to indulge in the "concept" for arguments sake. :egypt:

I'll carry on as instructed.

[pevergreen]

Still waiting for that contact NN. :tongue:

Seems I'm part of the kommendoukishoodydookywoogy.

Reminds me of Peter Van Danhoogenboogentroogendoogenboogen.

[_Tristan_]

Tincow, you made a small mistake in moving Methodios' army...

The Crusader sergeants you took belong to Annios Solomon... The unit I intended to take with Methodios was the complete one you just added, not the depleted...

[TinCow]

I will switch them at the earliest opportunity. Apologies for the error.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

In the meantime, a revolt is simmering in Cairo even with the low taxes and Annios Solomon and the remaining garrison are powerless to prevent it from happening.

TC .. I think that it should be Alexandria and not Cairo

[TinCow]

Fixed, thanks for the notice.

[_Tristan_]

Confusing, heh ? :laugh4:

[TinCow]

Pre-coffee fog of war.
:coffeenews:

[Privateerkev]

Though IC Methodios will face anything thrown his way, I want everybody to know that OOC I sacked Alexandria both for public order and to raise our treasury...

If only Zim would come online and give me his go with the story, perhaps judgment would be less fierce :wall: :yes:

Now that said, criticize and punish all you like...:2thumbsup:

That is exactly what I faced when I sacked Antioch. I did it OOC because of public order. Fortunately for me, there was not a law specifically forbidding what I did. So I only had to suffer some slings and arrows here and there IC.

The irony is, the law you broke was based of the one you created decades ago. :laugh4:

[ULC]

Sorry guys, I did what I had too. Hope no one is upset by my decision to terminate Ike, and I hope you can all take Veronica's anger in good humor OOC. Oh, and don't think Lady Veronica is going to fade away either :evilgrin:

[Privateerkev]

From the Korakus thread:


Forgot the Charter you wrote? Not surprising, since you broke it once.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VII Punishment
A.) Punishment will be decided from amongst the House members not being considered for punishment. Punishment can come about from a unanimous decision or a 2/3 vote at the normal voting time. A House member in question cannot vote regarding his own punishment.

You can't vote regarding your punishment. Therefore I can vote. Thus, it would be a unanimous decision.
Face it, if you or I offended the Charter, we'd be done for.

:laugh4:

This is what happens when you lift whole sections of the Order's Charter...

And this exact situation is precisely why I made a "two-tiered" system. If you let every member of your House vote from the moment they join, you could find your House voted out from under you.

This game is an interesting experiment in different kinds of "Houses." You have dictatorships and you have attempts at something like democracy.

The problem with a dictatorship, is that a lot of players don't feel "included." But it makes decision making very easy for the House Leader.

The problem with "democracy" in this game is that it requires high activity from all players for it to work. I find myself wanting to ignore parts of the Charter and make unilateral rulings simply because the other players who are supposed to "vote" aren't online for days at a time. (One has been gone for weeks.)

This is just a thought-piece that I had floating around...

[AussieGiant]

Hmmm...I'm curious to know if my hybrid style from KotR would work...

...I just don't have the type of character that would make it work I think.

[Privateerkev]

Hmmm...I'm curious to know if my hybrid style from KotR would work...

What? An absolute brutal dictator that provided a thin veneer of choice to his vassals so they thought they could actually control their own destiny as long as it conformed exactly to what he wanted?

:clown:

[AussieGiant]

What? An absolute brutal dictator that provided a thin veneer of choice to his vassals so they thought they could actually control their own destiny as long as it conformed exactly to what you wanted?

:clown:

it was more than a thin veneer :beam:

God, I mean over half of them got themselves killed. That was certainly full control.:balloon2:

It worked very well I thought. :clown:

[TinCow]

I'm pleased with the results of the various shifts in the Houses over the past term or so. I think this freedom to change loyalties, switch houses, and create new houses is adding a lot to the game.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

That's true.. but if we have bunch of Houses with 2 members inside then they don't have much power nor will they pose any threat to anyone.. But I do like the House system.. Just like TC said they add a lot to the game...:yes:

Edit: I'll be gone for couple of days.. A weird fever is taking me down.. ~:(

[TinCow]

The first draft of the Exarch Guide (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1999922&postcount=6) is up. Let me know if any parts are not explained well enough, if you have tips that you think should be added, or if there are aspects of the game that have not been covered but that should be.

The Code of Conduct will follow later this week.

[Ituralde]

One of your best works so far. I love the style of it! I think we'll see more Civil War once everybody's read them! :2thumbsup:

I only noticed the following things:
In The Care and Feeding of a Private Army you mention the superior army of 10 elite cavalry units. While I understand that this is a hyperbole for a comic effect, such a thing would not be possible to maintain under the Private Army Rules and under the Historical Composition rules. I would change it to just elite units.

In Who to Fight you mention as a possible punishment for the enemy that he has to lower his PA to one unit for 10 turns. You should probably add that you need the support of the Senate for the more drastic changes that go against the Charter. At least that's how I understood the Civil War rules in regards to penalties.

In How to Fight you mention that you can release captured avatars. This sounds exciting! How exactly can I do it? I mean the capturing part, not the releasing one.


Thanks for the effort you have put into the guide and the game. It really shows!

Cheers!

Ituralde


P.S.: And to conclude with a little point of nitpicking. :beam:

War and Peace or It’s Good to be the Megas

No matter what rank you are at, the disposition of the Megas will have a major impact on your avatar. A friendly Megas can large (enlargen or largen) armies, improve your settlements, [...]

[TinCow]

I made the noted changes. I wrote it in Word, but it's easier to proofread on the forums where the formating works properly, so it's a work in progress.


In How to Fight you mention that you can release captured avatars. This sounds exciting! How exactly can I do it? I mean the capturing part, not the releasing one.

Ah, the very subtle and incredibly broad power encompassed by the last two lines of the rules:


Regardless of the type of battle chosen, the umpire will determine the results, including, but not limited to, units to be disbanded as casualties, avatars to be killed off as casualties, and changes in the control of provinces. Console commands may be used to implement the results.

Essentially, the umpire of a battle has 'Event' level powers to determine the outcome. If he says that an avatar is killed, the avatar dies. If he says an avatar escapes, then the avatar escapes. If he says that an avatar is captured, then the avatar is captured. My general concept of a capture was that the player would no longer be able to move his own avatar and that it would either remain with the victorious army or be teleported to a province owned by the victor. The captured Senator could then be rescued if the army or settlement in which he was being 'held' was defeated/captured by a friendly army. As long as a Senator remains captured, he could be executed by his captor at any time. This includes at the end of the war if he refuses or is incapable of meeting the terms of the Peace Treaty.

Again, this is all up to the umpire of the battle, so there are no rules set in stone about it, but the above is my general concept. (Yes, I very much like the Civil War system and am looking forward to seeing it used.)

[Ignoramus]

Just a note that I'll be away Thursday to Sunday this week, so I'm asking Ituralde to move Ioannis and his army. Still send me PM's, but I won't be able to read them until Monday.

[Ferret]

I forgot to take screenshots but Hypatios killed about 100 Turks before retreating, and I found out that the "jedi" aren't so good against a horde of horse archers...

[Rowan]

I'll be fighting the battle when I get home from work in 3.5 hours.

[Privateerkev]

Bomb dropped in the Senate.

I love this game...

[_Tristan_]

Yep...

KA-BOOM !!! :tnt:

[Privateerkev]

First rule of these PBM's is like the first rule of Mafia games.

Always assume that every single PM you send will be made available to the public...

[TinCow]

Looks like it's time to warm up the PvP rules.

[OverKnight]

It's becoming increasingly difficult to keep IC about all this. :laugh4:

Geez at least wait for Aleksios to die before blowing up the Empire. Gah!

[AussieGiant]

:drama3:

[Privateerkev]

:drama1:

[OverKnight]

:drama1: :drama3: :hmg:

Almost the entire character arc of Aleksios has been devoted to ensuring that a Komnenoi dynasty is established as it was historically. I've plotted, I've conjoled, I've worked really, really hard at it and this. . .this is what happens! :wall:

King Lear!

Gah!

[Privateerkev]

I'll say one thing about Ignoramus.

The man certainly dreams big...

:laugh4:

[Rowan]

Well, at least we got the crusade finished. And I got to fight at least one battle against the AI instead of graduating straigt to PvP :laugh4:

[Privateerkev]

Alright, I have the new save. I'll try to get this done today but I have plans later on. But I just need to type up a report and upload the new save so I don't need as much time as normal. I'll try to go home for lunch in a couple hours and do it there.

[TinCow]

Well, at least we got the crusade finished. And I got to fight at least one battle against the AI instead of graduating straigt to PvP :laugh4:

You conquered Cairo?

[Rowan]

Yep. The AI attacked with a bigger stack from south. Garrison joined as reinforcements. After the battle the Occupy/Sack/Exterminate screen came up.

[AussieGiant]

I'll say one thing about Ignoramus.

The man certainly dreams big...

:laugh4:

You should have seen the stuff he proposed to Arnold as Hapsburg back in the other game.

I nearly decapitated him on the spot. :clown:

[Privateerkev]

Yep. The AI attacked with a bigger stack from south. Garrison joined as reinforcements. After the battle the Occupy/Sack/Exterminate screen came up.

Just for my own IC knowledge, what did "Stavros" do with the prisoners and how did you take the city?

FYI to everyone: I'd like to know from every person what they do with prisoners and what they do to captured settlements. Unless you can convince me that it could be kept completely quiet, news of those things does get out.

*edit*

Nevermind on the update, I forgot you told me the screen didn't come up and Cairo was occupied.


You should have seen the stuff he proposed to Arnold as Hapsburg back in the other game.

I nearly decapitated him on the spot. :clown:

I heard. Well, if your going to dream, dream big... :yes:

[Rowan]

The info was in the PM. (Prisoner screen didn't come up, city occupied).

[Privateerkev]

The info was in the PM. (Prisoner screen didn't come up, city occupied).

Your right. Sorry. :embarassed:

As you might guess, these past couple of hours have been a tad busy for me... :laugh4:

[Rowan]

Nevermind :laugh4: BTW. I've just got the first triple-gold unit in my whole Total War history and it's my own avatar after playing one single battle myself :nice:

[Privateerkev]

With all the battles we've done, with a crappy army, I have been forced to use our Jedi avatars a lot. So, pretty much every Order avatar has high silver or gold chevrons. :2thumbsup:

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Ramses.. that was a good post in the Hippodrome! :yes:

[Ramses II CP]

Thanks! :beam:

:egypt:

[Privateerkev]

I'm amused that the Office of the Megas is basically being equated with a contemporary Justice Department. And given the scandals that have wracked the current US Justice Department lately, that is even funnier. :laugh4:

[Ibn-Khaldun]

As I understand then Cairo have been taken, right? :inquisitive:
So the Crusade is over?

[woad&fangs]

Yes, and all my crusader forces are belong to Tristan because I'm in Alexandria:brood:

[Privateerkev]

As I understand then Cairo have been taken, right? :inquisitive:
So the Crusade is over?

The Crusade is not over until TC says it is. He still needs to do a couple things with the save this next turn.


Yes, and all my crusader forces are belong to Tristan because I'm in Alexandria:brood:

Yes, when the Crusade ends, those men will be Tristan's if he "locks" the garrison.

Time for the Crusader guys to start wheeling and dealing...

[Ibn-Khaldun]

So.. w&f.. if you don't want that to happen you can pm TC that he moves you and your units outside the city..:yes:

[Rowan]

The battle report for Cairo has been posted. BART IS A JEDI! :evil:

[_Tristan_]

I've got the go-ahead from Zim so expect the battle report for Alexandria up in a few minutes...:2thumbsup:

[TinCow]

So.. w&f.. if you don't want that to happen you can pm TC that he moves you and your units outside the city..:yes:

I am done with moving the Crusaders. The Crusade technically ended when Cairo was taken. The only changes I will be making will be to fix the units I accidentally swapped last turn, add the relics to the Cairo crew, and bump up the treasury one final time. When I am done with that, all Crusaders are free to move their own avatars and armies once again, and everything in Egypt will be under normal game rules.

[Rowan]

Well, I have to say that I thoroughly enjoyed the Crusade! :2thumbsup:

And already fearing the next event :sweatdrop:

[Privateerkev]

Something tells me we're about to make our own event... :hide:

[TinCow]

Well, I have to say that I thoroughly enjoyed the Crusade! :2thumbsup:

Yes, I'm very pleased with how it worked out, and I thank all the participants for making it successful.

I have no immediate plans for a new Event. I think the situation is interesting enough as it is, and I don't need to cause more chaos at the moment.

[Ramses II CP]

Do we get extra Crusade units for capturing Cairo, or was that only for the guys at Alexandria? We're going to need every scrap to keep Cairo orderly. :sweatdrop: :laugh4:

Although OOC I don't mind the idea of a rebellion, it just makes sense for 20k+ Muslims to be unhappy with Orthodox rule, IC it would hurt.

edit: Of course I greatly enjoyed the Crusade as well, thanks TC! I think we'll be dealing with some of the ramifications for as long as our avatars live.

:egypt:

[TinCow]

Do we get extra Crusade units for capturing Cairo, or was that only for the guys at Alexandria? We're going to need every scrap to keep Cairo orderly. :sweatdrop: :laugh4:

Although OOC I don't mind the idea of a rebellion, it just makes sense for 20k+ Muslims to be unhappy with Orthodox rule, IC it would hurt.

:egypt:

Nope, but the Megas is your Lord, so I'm sure he'll be able to spare the funds to reinforce you.

[Privateerkev]

Nope, but the Megas is your Lord, so I'm sure he'll be able to spare the funds to reinforce you.

I might be able to scrape some spare change out of the couch... :laugh4:

But yeah, I see this Crusade as one of the pivotal events of the game. The calling of the Crusade by the Patriarch caused a major reactionary move by the Royal Family which put in place a blatantly biased Megas who tipped the scales of balance so in favor of his own House, that now he feels secure planning a Civil War.

Kind of like how killing the Pope in KotR ended up causing the rise of Ducal Power.

I suspect we will be able to point back to this event months or a year from now and see it as one of the defining elements of our game's "story." :2thumbsup:

[GeneralHankerchief]

And to think who started both of those chain reactions...

Okay, I'll stop tooting my own horn now. :tongue:

[Privateerkev]

And to think who started both of those chain reactions...

Okay, I'll stop tooting my own horn now. :tongue:

Technically, in both cases, it was TinCow... :laugh4:

[TinCow]

Technically, in both cases, it was TinCow... :laugh4:

I most certainly did not kill the Pope. That was GH. Both times. Well, both distinct events. I can't remember who got all the kills during Heinrich's Whack-a-Pope period.

[Rowan]

I have been wondering what came first, Patriarchs plot, TinCows event or even Vissas guilt trip to Egypt. And how it came together in the beginning?

I was quite surprised with GHs story revealing Patriarchs complicity in the crusade. Just shows how much of a newb I am at this game :wink:

[Privateerkev]

I most certainly did not kill the Pope. That was GH. Both times.

But you administered both OOC.

It was just a joke... :shrug:

[Ramses II CP]

Glad to see Issac the Lazy get picked up. Man what a time we'll have with that appellation if he joins Igno's group. :laugh4:

:egypt:

[TinCow]

Glad to see Issac the Lazy get picked up. Man what a time we'll have with that appellation if he joins Igno's group. :laugh4:

It seems we may have the first player to make use of this part of the rules:


3.5 – Influence: Each Senator’s voting power is equivalent to his total Influence, as defined by Rule 2.7. No Senator’s Influence may ever be lower than 1. For the purposes of determining Stat Influence, a Senator can gain 1 point of Stat Influence for each of the following conditions that he meets: (a) 5+ ranks of Command (b) 10 ranks of Command (c) 5+ ranks of Chivalry or Dread (d) 10 ranks of Chivalry or Dread (e) 10 ranks of Loyalty (f) 8+ ranks of Piety (g) 20+ total stat points (h) 30+ total stat points (i) 40 total stat points (j) Senator’s name is modified by a trait title that bestows more negative than positive stat points (i.e. the Mad) (k) Senator is married to a Byzantine Empire Princess (l) Senator possesses the title of Lord High Chancellor, Lord High Steward, or Privy Seal.

[Ramses II CP]

I have been wondering what came first, Patriarchs plot, TinCows event or even Vissas guilt trip to Egypt. And how it came together in the beginning?

I was quite surprised with GHs story revealing Patriarchs complicity in the crusade. Just shows how much of a newb I am at this game :wink:

Personally I think it all kind of grew together in an organic manner. I'm sure GH and TC already had something in mind when poor Vissa came begging to the Patriarch, but he fit the bill to get it started IC. I was not aware, during the mission to Cairo phase, of what was being put together although I might've picked up a little clue here and there.

Since then, of course, I've grabbed the bit between my teeth and pulled as hard as I can. :juggle2:

:egypt:

[ULC]

Is it me or does Isaakios the Lazy getting more votes in the Magnaura seem...paradoxical? Or is it pointless :clown:?

[TinCow]

Is it me or does Isaakios the Lazy getting more votes in the Magnaura seem...paradoxical? Or is it pointless :clown:?

This is my commentary from the original rules discussion:


(j) is mainly a balance bonus that is designed to help out people who are unlucky enough to have avatars that get sent down a really bad trait line. They’re probably already losing a large amount of influence from that trait, so this is a bonus point to give them at least some small influence. It’s perfectly reasonably that even the most negative traits would bestow some kind of small influence, simply because the person is the “extreme” of that trait. For instance, perhaps Bob the Ugly is so amazingly hideous that people close their eyes when he is around, forcing them to listen to him more carefully. I considered making this rule apply to all trait-bestowed titles, but that will generally just result in a double-bonus for people with “good” titles. Since they’re already receiving stat bonuses from the trait, they don’t need an extra boost. Also, reducing the "good" and "bad" determinations to stat points will prevent any debate over what is good or bad. Essentially, if it causes you to lose more stats than you gain, it's bad. If you break even or gain stats, it's good.

Basically, it's designed to keep people from avoiding characters with negative 'titles' because those characters can be fun to roleplay. I'm still eagerly anticipating the first "the Mad" character in any of these games.