OOC Thread and Chatroom 2

[TheFlax]

As an aside, it seems its not a good time to be Basileus... :sweatdrop:

[Zim]

The mod and patches have installers I think, and directions on the pages they're linked to...

As for saves, after installing the mod you should have a "Stainless Steel" folder in your MTW2 folder. Inside of that is the "saves" folder for the mod. Just extract any saves you download into that folder. :yes:

[woad&fangs]

As an aside, it seems its not a good time to be Basileus... :sweatdrop:

You could just surrender to me, you know~;p

[TheFlax]

You could just surrender to me, you know~;p

I'm waiting for more rebels to announce themselves. You know, keeping my options open regarding that surrender. :clown:

[Zim]

Well, I can break my oath to Woad and then secede with my Adriatic provinces. ~;p


I'm waiting for more rebels to announce themselves. You know, keeping my options open regarding that surrender. :clown:

[TheFlax]

That would truly make my day. :clown: Anyone else?


Well, I can break my oath to Woad and then secede with my Adriatic provinces. ~;p

[ULC]

That would truly make my day. :clown: Anyone else?

I have the urge to create a Bulgarian Empire :beam:

[Zim]

In a conversation with flyd a better name than the Bastard Rebellion for the current war came up.

The War of Marching Around a Lot.

For my own amusement I think when it's all done I'm going to make a little map of the paths taken by all the different participants.

[TheFlax]

:cry:


I have the urge to create a Bulgarian Empire :beam:

[ULC]

:cry:

Or simply be your reclamation tool, I am married to your sister after all and I respected Methodios. Considering Zim has only this turn to make himself a rebel too, can I have some of the men around Dardanellia to augment my forces and begin bringing those who oppose your rule "back into the fold" with an "offer they can't refuse"?

Pretty please :beam:?


Please :sweatdrop:?

[Cecil XIX]

The Era of the Four Basilei... I love it. :laugh4:

[GeneralHankerchief]

Hm, might be time for me to write a new "foreshadowing" story.

-edit- Judging by the new thread... oh yeah.

[TheFlax]

Is more doom approaching? I'm still expecting something worse to happen. :clown:

[Cecil XIX]

We can only hope.

[Zim]

Just wait until you see the Megas report. Ouch.

[flyd]

Just wait until you see the Megas report. Ouch.

What have you done now?

[Ignoramus]

Methinks the old House structure of Aleksios' time has completely disintegrated. Apart from the Order, which has just lost it's two armies, and two of it's members, there's only the Asteri which are functioning as House.

[TheFlax]

What have you done now?

This time its me I think, settlements rioting because I moved the Capital to Jerusalem. Sorry, but it was either that, Gaza or Solomeia. Not much of a choice really. :no:

[Cecil XIX]

I think Zim's referencing the fact that the Empire is now losing 8000 florins a turn.

:2thumbsup:

[Ignoramus]

Up the rebels!

[Zim]

Gah!

[Zim]

That and the riots. Amazing what moving the capital can do... :sweatdrop:


I think Zim's referencing the fact that the Empire is now losing 8000 florins a turn.

:2thumbsup:

[Ignoramus]

And the very high tax rates. Thankfully Dardanellia's a castle.

[Zim]

True, although there were riots in a couple of non rebel settlements without the very high taxes.

[Cecil XIX]

As far as I'm aware, the rioting can be dealt with before the turn is over. The startling drain of funds, however, will be a more permanent problem. Now that it's been moved to Jersusalem, it can only be moved to provinces that the Basileus owns. Gaza, Medina and Jersualem...

[flyd]

The drain of funds will become less of a problem if we get into battles with each other and kill off the large armies. Then the budget will be balanced, and we'll merely lack the troops necessary to keep order in and defend such a large territory.

[Zim]

Well, it's a start.

We can all meet in Markianople for the four Basileus smackdown. :charge:


The drain of funds will become less of a problem if we get into battles with each other and kill off the large armies. Then the budget will be balanced, and we'll merely lack the troops necessary to keep order in and defend such a large territory.

[TheFlax]

Except I don't have much of an army, at least that can leave Jerusalem. :clown:


Well, it's a start.

We can all meet in Markianople for the four Basileus smackdown. :charge:

[Zim]

I don't think your capital can revolt, so you may be ok if you don't mind the riots. :clown:


Except I don't have much of an army, at least that can leave Jerusalem. :clown:

[Ibn-Khaldun]

I think Theo is on the verge of going after all those people who call themselves 'Basileus'! :laugh4:

[Zim]

Well, there's one almost within range of you. ~;p


I think Theo is on the verge of going after all those people who call themselves 'Basileus'! :laugh4:

[rossahh]

Methinks the old House structure of Aleksios' time has completely disintegrated. Apart from the Order, which has just lost it's two armies, and two of it's members, there's only the Asteri which are functioning as House.




Yet it's ONLY the Order and the Asteri who are fighting/defending against the AI factions. It looks like the old order has some uses, even if it's to make sure there's a Byzantine Empire left for one of the Basileus's to rule over.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Well, there's one almost within range of you. ~;p

Every other ones that is because that Basileus is the only one who helps Theo against the Turks! :tongue:

I wonder what will happen if Asteri will loose it's armies against Venetians and Order it's army against the Turks? :juggle2:

[Ituralde]

The four Basilei will fight each other in the charred ruins of Constantinople, surrounded by their mortal enemies. What do you expect? :beam:

[flyd]

Apparently, the Greek plular of Basileus is Basileis. This might come in handy... :beam:

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Apparently, the Greek plular of Basileus is Basileis. This might come in handy... :beam:

I was wondering about that! Thanks! Now I know!:2thumbsup:

Could someone make a map where all those territories of the 4 'Basileis' are painted with different colors? It would be nice those see who has bigger.. territory! :clown:

[Zim]

Tremble before my lack of artistic skill.

War of the 4 Basileis in Map Form

https://img18.imageshack.us/img18/6387/mapxa9.jpg (https://imageshack.us)

Red is the "IMPERIVM·ROMANVM·PARS·OCCIDENTALIS", or Iggy's Western Empire

Dark Blue is the Empire of Georgia and Trebizond (temporary name until I find out from Woad what he's calling it), Woad's Eastern Empire.

Black are nominally Loyalist provinces.

And those two dots in the soothing shade of blue are Erotikos and Kousinos with their armies.

The stars are the three current capitals.

Eventually I hope to track the movement of armies (or at least the ones from the Kousinos rebellion, until they get a settlement), battles, etc.

Edit: I messed up. Kousinos does have a settlement, Tortosa, now in blue. No star for a capital since they haven't seceded.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Lol.. Zim read my mind!! :laugh4:

[Zim]

Funny, I was making the map while you made that post. :clown:

[Ibn-Khaldun]

I made one myself.

Using the same colors as you did, Zim.

https://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh311/ibnkhaldun/TW%20games/lotr_rebellions.jpg

[Zim]

Looks a lot better than mine. :laugh4:

[TinCow]

The drain of funds will become less of a problem if we get into battles with each other and kill off the large armies. Then the budget will be balanced, and we'll merely lack the troops necessary to keep order in and defend such a large territory.

I find the debt/deficit very interesting. As far as I'm aware, no PBM of any kind, succession or mega-game, has ever had to deal with a debt, let alone one this large. It will start to have huge implications on the game-play soon enough, and that in and of itself is fun. We're entering uncharted ground here.

(I'll get the various info posts updated with all the new civil war info later today.)

[TheFlax]

To both of the map makers, you placed Woad's capital in Yerevan, not Tbilisi. :clown:

Thanks for the map though. :2thumbsup:

[Rowan]

Just a quick FYI... I have been sick for the last 3 days, and according to the doctor will stay that way at least another 3 days... (&%@# influenza). So I won't be online much.

[TinCow]

Hope you feel better Rowan!

For anyone interested in history, it's worth noting that our current situation is not entirely without precedent (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_of_the_Four_Emperors). The death of a controversial Roman Emperor resulted in four separate and simultaneous claims to the title. The chaos caused by this in-fighting allowed several local rebellions to occur against Roman rule. Sound familiar?

And don't worry, there's plenty of other historical analogies even if we get a fifth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_of_the_Five_Emperors) or a sixth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_of_the_Six_Emperors) person claiming the throne. Ah, Roman history. I do love it so.

[ULC]

Just a little Rebel bashing, with a call to arms, and a bit of foreshadowing :mellow:

[Ituralde]

We'll probably have more like a decade of the Four Emperors rathern than a year! :2thumbsup:

[mini]

Hi guys :)

just joined! I'd like to start out in the region Ragusa, since its bordered with ze germans, whom I own a can of whoop-ass.
Whose region is that, can I get permission to start there, and whose ass do i have to lick in order to make myself useful there? ;)

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Just a little Rebel bashing, with a call to arms, and a bit of foreshadowing :mellow:

Lol.. it was quite entertaining. But Helarionas' men should be careful when saying those words since he himself was part of a rebellion against the Empire and not just recently he fought a civil war against other Senators! ~;)

Edit: mini - You should check the Library and especially Map Room (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1925725&postcount=3) where all the owners are mentioned!

[Ibn-Khaldun]

An interesting find:


1180 With the death of the Emperor, Manuel I Komnenos, the decline of the Empire recommences.
1185 A successful rebellion is organized in Bulgaria and other lands are lost in the Balkans.

Kind of similar to what has happened in lotR. Almost similar years too! :book:

Transferring this to LotR:


With the death of the Emperor, Ioannis I Komnenos, the decline of the Empire recommences.
A successful rebellion is organized in Thrace and other lands are lost in Armenia and Pontus.

[TheFlax]

Ragusa is part of House Asteri and is owned by the House leader, Ioannis Kalameteros also known as "the Chivalrous" now it seems. Sadly the player of Ioannis, deguerra, is inactive right now due to computer problems.

Getting someone to give you men at this time won't be easy, we are pretty stretched thin. I'm not sure about what's going on at the Venetian front, but we could always use another commander in the East, fighting the Turks. You can either contact me or Ibn-Khaldun if you want to join the fight there, we'll find something for you to do. :yes:


Hi guys :)

just joined! I'd like to start out in the region Ragusa, since its bordered with ze germans, whom I own a can of whoop-ass.
Whose region is that, can I get permission to start there, and whose ass do i have to lick in order to make myself useful there? ;)

[ULC]

Can anyone tell me who controls Durazzo? And who gets to move Andreas?

[TheFlax]

Durazzo is controlled by Arintheos Voutoumis (Zim) and I think Andreas can be moved with permission of Asteri, since Marcus Agrippa has computer problems if I recall. Though, ever since his "escape" a few turns back he seems to be floating aimlessly in the Adriatic. :clown:


Can anyone tell me who controls Durazzo? And who gets to move Andreas?

[ULC]

Who's the current Asteri representative? I have need to speak to them.

[TheFlax]

That would be Rossahh or KnightandDay I think.

[miniwally]

Can someone put step by step what i have to do and where to put things to get this working i have kingdoms installed and the MTW:2 update for it if that matters so someone plz tell me what to do

[TheFlax]

This post (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1988289&postcount=3) should be of some help to you.

[miniwally]

i said before where do i install stainless steel to and do i need MTW:2 patch 1.2 and 1.3 if i have kingdoms as i think that installs an update

[Zim]

Here's the post on installation.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1988289&postcount=3

If you have Kingdoms you don't need to worry about the 1.3 patch. That leaves just three steps left.

1. Here's the mod we use, an older version of Stainless Steel. It has an installer. Just double click on the file after downloading.

http://files.filefront.com/Stainless+Steel+40exe/;8068080;/fileinfo.html

2. After that there's a patch for the mod, also with an installer.

http://files.filefront.com/Stainless+Steel+41+patchexe/;8220351;/fileinfo.html

3. Lastly, some fixes were added for LotR. I think the easiest of the two versions of that is this one, with an installer.

http://www.iki.fi/rowan/lotr-mod/LotRMod1.3.exe

[TheFlax]

I think you still have to install the patches of M2TW, regardless of Kingdoms. As for Stainless Steel, simply install it in your Medieval 2 Total War folder.

[TinCow]

I dont know how the game works with a Kingdoms install, as I don't have the expansion pack. If you can't make a clean M2TW install to play from, just skip to step 4 on the install instructions and see if it works.

Beaten to the punch.

[Zim]

Kingdoms updates MTW2 for you, as I learned after having to do many reinstalls. :sweatdrop:

Just try installing Kingdoms over MTW2 1.0 sometime, it will update your game to 1.2 before Kingdoms itself installs. :yes:


I think you still have to install the patches of M2TW, regardless of Kingdoms. As for Stainless Steel, simply install it in your Medieval 2 Total War folder.

[miniwally]

will this affect my vanilla MTW:2 game in any way?

[ULC]

No, Stainless Steel installs into a separate folder - it is in essence another game entirely.

[TinCow]

will this affect my vanilla MTW:2 game in any way?

Please do read the instructions (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1988289&postcount=3) and FAQ (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=1988289#post1988289), they're there for a reason:


Q: Will this mod prevent me from playing the vanilla game?
A: No. The mods install in a separate "Stainless Steel" folder within your M2TW folder. They do not overwrite the original files. The shortcut provided for SS 4.1 will launch the game in the proper configuration for LotR. If you want to play the vanilla version of the game, just use the vanilla shortcut.

[miniwally]

and the lotr mod won't effect it as a different mod changed my game which ni didn't want it to so i had to uninstall it and then i lost disk 2 :P

[TinCow]

LOTRmod installs on top of the Stainless Steel mod. It does not impact the vanilla game in any way.

[miniwally]

Please do read the instructions (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1988289&postcount=3) and FAQ (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=1988289#post1988289), they're there for a reason:

i have sorry i just like to be sure on these things :no:

[woad&fangs]

I like the maps but...

-My capitol is at Tbilisi
-I also contol Diyarbakir, which Zim ceded to me before he broke his oath.

Talking about historical parallels...

A Basileus by the name of Andronikos Komnenos was desposed by the Angelos family. Tristan is now playing an avatar with the last name Angelos. The descendents of Andronikos established a kingdom in Pontus which would go on to outlast the rest of the Byzantine Empire(~;p). Under the rule of the Megas Komnenoi, a cliffside monastery flourished and became an important place of Orthodox religion. Before I learned this, I described the location of the Order of St. Jude as a monastery jutting out of a mountain.

[ULC]

I like the maps but...

-My capitol is at Tbilisi
-I also contol Diyarbakir, which Zim ceded to me before he broke his oath.

Talking about historical parallels...

A Basileus by the name of Andronikos Komnenos was desposed by the Angelos family. Tristan is now playing an avatar with the last name Angelos. The descendents of Andronikos established a kingdom in Pontus which would go on to outlast the rest of the Byzantine Empire(~;p). Under the rule of the Megas Komnenoi, a cliffside monastery flourished and became an important place of Orthodox religion. Before I learned this, I described the location of the Order of St. Jude as a monastery jutting out of a mountain.

Woad, I would not be so sure History is going to repeat itself...I mean, come 1210-15...

[Ibn-Khaldun]

I like the maps but...

-My capitol is at Tbilisi
-I also contol Diyarbakir, which Zim ceded to me before he broke his oath.


Sry about that!
I just used Zim's map to get the borders right and did not check who has what capital. :shame:
And who can blame us.. there are so many 'capitals' in these days that it's hard to remember all of them! ~;p

[Zim]

But Yerevan's so nice and central....

Sadly, I checked Woad's Magnarua thread while making the map and still didn't get it right. :help:


Sry about that!
I just used Zim's map to get the borders right and did not check who has what capital. :shame:
And who can blame us.. there are so many 'capitals' in these days that it's hard to remember all of them! ~;p

[miniwally]

when oi run the lotr mod it says error opening file for writing \stainless_steel_mod\data\battle_config.xml

what do i do?:help:

[ULC]

First, can you provide a setp-bu-step of your installation of SS and the LOTR mod?

And second, IK, your a bit confused - Sergios and Helarionas are one and the same :laugh4:

[miniwally]

First, can you provide a setp-bu-step of your installation of SS and the LOTR mod?

And second, IK, your a bit confused - Sergios and Helarionas are one and the same :laugh4:


1. downloaded stainless steel 4.0
2. dowloaded stainless steel 4.1 patch
3. dowloaded LotRMod 1.3
4. installed stainless steel 4.0 followed all of the things it said.
5. installed stainless steel 4.1 patch it said do i want to overwrite somethings and i figured this meant things from stainless steel 4.0 so i said yes
6. double-click LotRMod 1.3 click run and it comes up with that message

[ULC]

Where is your M2TW installed?

[miniwally]

oh that might be problem C:\Program Files\SEGA\Medieval II Total War

[KnightnDay]

If you look in windows explorer, do you see the battle_config xml file in the Stainless Steel mod data folder?

[Ibn-Khaldun]

And second, IK, your a bit confused - Sergios and Helarionas are one and the same :laugh4:

Lol.. this happens when people are using so many different characters or names to represent them! Can't keep track of everyone in these days! :laugh4:

Also, I thought that Rebels can't talk in the Magnaura either. But apparently I'm wrong.. again.

[flyd]

Apparently, you are wrong. It says:

(2) Cannot propose or vote on Edicts or Amendments in any Senate session. Cannot run for or vote in the election for Megas Logothetes.

Nothing stops them from talking. Erotikas and Sophianos, on the other hand, have indeed been banned from the Magnaura.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Yes, I know that after I checked the Rules myself.

About that banning though. The rules say that Basileus can ban them during the Senate Session but not in the time between them.


(12) Can ban Senators from a Senate Session. Banned Senators cannot speak or propose legislation, but they are permitted to vote.

As I understand the Rules then this current ban is more RP thing. Both Io and Kousinos can actually speak in the Magnaura.

[TinCow]

TheFlax asked me about that specific thing before he banned them. You are correct that the way it is worded only prevents people from speaking during actual sessions, but that's not what was intended when it was written. In KotR, we allowed the Kaiser to ban people during all periods, not just actual sessions. That was one of the main reasons why the Tavern was created, which has evolved into the Hippodrome. Thus, it is consistent with the way we've played for the last couple years to allow bans at all times. I will enforce it as such.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Good, now I know that I shouldn't make Basileus angry! :laugh4:

[miniwally]

If you look in windows explorer, do you see the battle_config xml file in the Stainless Steel mod data folder?


yes it's battle_config and saved as an xml document

[Ibn-Khaldun]

So, our current political situation is this - everyone against everyone? :book:

I checked that Civil War thread and looks like this is the case. It will be dangerous to move around your avatar if you don't have enough men with you. :beam:

Edit: Also, when will Zim end this turn?

[mini]

Just posted my first speech, addressing this fact :p

I'm a but rusty since it has been years since i roleplayed or AAR'ed ^^

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Sry for double post but how will TC deal with the situation in Constantinople??

That city is the capital of Ioannis Komnenos III but there are many avatars inside the city who should be at war with him. Plus there is Apollonas Komnenos outside the city. According to the rules PvP should be fought! Or am I missing something? I haven't seen any declarations of neutrality from those people.


Individual Senators may unilaterally remove themselves from a Civil War within one turn of the Declaration of War that brought them into it by breaking all Oaths of Loyalty that tie them to any Senator involved in the War and by publicly declaring Neutrality.

Shouldn't we have to move all those avatars to the new capital?

[TinCow]

Good, now I know that I shouldn't make Basileus angry! :laugh4:

Note that banning does not prevent a person from voting or running for Megas, it only prevents them from posting in the Magnaura and proposing legislation. Of course, rebels can't vote or run for Megas either, so if you're a rebel AND you're banned, you're pretty much limited to rabble-rousing in the Hippodrome.


Sry for double post but how will TC deal with the situation in Constantinople??

That city is the capital of Ioannis Komnenos III but there are many avatars inside the city who should be at war with him. Plus there is Apollonas Komnenos outside the city. According to the rules PvP should be fought! Or am I missing something? I haven't seen any declarations of neutrality from those people.

Shouldn't we have to move all those avatars to the new capital?

This is interesting and I never noticed it. Thank you for bringing it to my attention. Unfortunately, I am not going to get home (where my M2TW computer is) until late this evening and won't have time to check the game until tomorrow. If someone could list exactly who is in or close to the city, it would help me in deciding what to do.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

TC - but what about that Constantinople thing?

https://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh311/ibnkhaldun/TW%20games/lotr_rebellion2.jpg
Sry, it's hard to see who is who here. :shame:

I think this does not make any sense.

Doh.. already answered.

Edit: There are Theophilos Tzimiskis(snowman13-inactive), Ioannis Komnenos II(Rodrico Stak-inactive), Evmathios Komnenos(Andres) and Ioannis Komnenos III(Ignoramus) in Constantinople.

[KnightnDay]

I can speak for Asteri. As far as Andreas goes, he may be getting close to going inactive. Haven't heard from Marcus Agrippa in a long while.


Who's the current Asteri representative? I have need to speak to them.

miniwally, unless someone else has a suggestion, I can only recommend a complete uninstall and reinstall, saving any game files to a separate folder first. That's what I had to do.

[TinCow]

Thanks Ibn. I will send a PM to those people informing them of the situation and of the risk to their avatar. I will give them until the end of the next full game turn to start moving away without it causing a PvP battle. If they do not move, Ignoramus is free to capture them and hold them prisoner.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

But what about those inactive players?

They could be killed off and IC reason would be that Igno's character ordered them to be murdered(if Igno agrees with it because this will leave a mark on his character)?

[TinCow]

I'm only willing to go so far to help inactive players, since they are unlikely to become active again (as yet, no one has become active after being transferred to the inactive list). I've notified them of the situation via PM and given them plenty of time to save themselves by moving or declaring neutrality. If they end up getting captured and executed by Ignoramus, it will be because of their own inactivity. I am comfortable with that. Of course, if any of them has given permission to someone else to move their avatar, that other person may do so to save them. If not, well... you snooze, you lose.

[miniwally]

miniwally, unless someone else has a suggestion, I can only recommend a complete uninstall and reinstall, saving any game files to a separate folder first. That's what I had to do.

of MTW:2? cause i can't

[miniwally]

how do you stop files being write protected?

[miniwally]

:D found disk 2 :D should be straight forward now if i install ti on good computer it will let LotR work or at least it did before i uninstalled

[Zim]

The stress of being Megas has clearly begun to drive Arintheos mad, guessing by his latest entry to the Megas' report.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2145521&postcount=1293

[miniwally]

what's the order of play?

[Zim]

No order. I'm currently the Megas Logothetes (guy who moves the turn forward, among other things). I have to give everyone at least a day to take the save.

As long as noone else is taking it you can take the save to move any time. Just be sure to post it in the Megas' thread. :yes:

[miniwally]

oh cool seemed liike it was all planned in that forum :P i can't take the save as i'm not in it yet :P need to wait for my RGB's to be made i wonder when they will be i forgot when he said they would.

Do you just take the save from the megas logothetes or do you take it from the guy who posted above you?

[Zim]

From whoever posted it last. Everytime someone uses the save and uploads it they rename it so we know which is the most recent.

1194-1
1194-2
and so on. :yes:


oh cool seemed liike it was all planned in that forum :P i can't take the save as i'm not in it yet :P need to wait for my RGB's to be made i wonder when they will be i forgot when he said they would.

Do you just take the save from the megas logothetes or do you take it from the guy who posted above you?

[Ibn-Khaldun]

I found something odd.
Leon Symmachos have deserted. I'm not what policy is with avatars, that belong to inactive players, deserting though.

[TinCow]

Hrm. Well, YouHaveReceived hasn't posted anywhere for a month and a half and hasn't been on the forums in a month. Thus, I'm not going to bend over backwards to fix the desertion. If he ever returns, we'll spawn a new avatar for him.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

I wonder .. will we hit -50k today or not ~:P

Last time I checked our 'financial situation' we were around -42k

[miniwally]

I wonder .. will we hit -50k today or not ~:P

Last time I checked our 'financial situation' we were around -42k

I think estimated profit was -9k so if it keeps like that then yes.

[ULC]

I can correct most of the debt problems in 2 turns actually, and have us back in black within a Megas term - however, this would actually require cooperation ~;p

[miniwally]

I can correct most of the debt problems in 2 turns actually, and have us back in black within a Megas term - however, this would actually require cooperation ~;p

:O not co-operation :P j/k

[Ibn-Khaldun]

I can correct most of the debt problems in 2 turns actually, and have us back in black within a Megas term - however, this would actually require cooperation ~;p

Lol.. We have 4 Basileis and you talk about co-op?? :laugh4:

[Ibn-Khaldun]

First defensive battle of my term, I believe.

The honorable Senator Theo has found himself the target of a large but ill-equipped army led by the Sultan Sinan of the Turks himself.


I'll fight it first thing in the morning. I'm a bit tired now and don't want to make any stupid mistakes.:shame:
(Actually I was hoping for him to come after me~;p)

[Zim]

I'd be willing to bet almost everybody here (maybe everybody who's payed the game more than a couple days) could end the debt pretty quickly in an SP game, even without disbanding any troops.

Moving the capital back somewhere more merchant friendly, fiddling with settlement taxes, and all the million little tricks we learn on our first campaign would make a big difference. Sacking income is so large it might as well be an exploit.

The debt looks scary but it really doesn't mean much...

Ibn Whenever you're ready. I think we allow something like two days for defensive battles so tomorrow morning is fine. :yes:

[flyd]

I can correct most of the debt problems in 2 turns actually, and have us back in black within a Megas term - however, this would actually require cooperation ~;p

Cooperation? You've obviously never been Megas before.

[woad&fangs]

Of course, the best way to reduce debt is to have some PvP battles:whip:

[Zim]

Someday maybe. We still have more marching to do first. :laugh4:


Of course, the best way to reduce debt is to have some PvP battles:whip:

[KnightnDay]

Whoa, I see the French general in the Levant went rebel with his large army. More fun and excitement awaits, kiddies.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Whoa, I see the French general in the Levant went rebel with his large army. More fun and excitement awaits, kiddies.

Yes, that's exactly what I need! :wall::furious3:

:clown:

[Cecil XIX]

It has occurred to me that unlike normal realms, Independent Realms do not have to choose between training soldiers and building infastructure.

May I suggest we amend the rules for independent states to allow this? Perhaps at the three-units-for-one-building ratio suggested in the existing rules?

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Doh, I thought that it's already a new turn when I read from the Megas thread that Andronikos is 1 turn from Theo! :laugh4:

[The Celtic Viking]

Gah! A day or two ago I didn't have time to load up the game and check my character's traits (and my character's mugshot isn't in the library yet), but I still had to make a public statement declaring neutrality, so I gambled on him being shy and a poor public speaker, or at least that he had no trait saying he wouldn't be. With my usual luck, he of course turns out to have no shortage of traits proclaiming how confident he is in public, and he even specifically enjoy being the centre of attention. :embarassed:

[mini]

just claim you had a bad case of diarrhea, but nonetheless wished to declare.
It might serve as explanation for your unusual behaviour ;p

[Ibn-Khaldun]

So, am I right that once this turn is ended a Senate Session will begin?

TCV - He is a teenager, what did you expected? They always behave out of character. ~;p

[Zim]

I think there's one more turn after that, and the session begins in 1200.


So, am I right that once this turn is ended a Senate Session will begin?

[Ibn-Khaldun]

I think there's one more turn after that, and the session begins in 1200.

Darn.. this means that Andronikos can still attack me before the Senate Session! :laugh4:

[Rowan]

I'm away for a week and you manage to further split the empire... I don't think I'm healthy enough yet to even try reading the Magnaura, Stories or Hippodrome... Megas and OOC threads were long enough!

[TinCow]

Gah! A day or two ago I didn't have time to load up the game and check my character's traits (and my character's mugshot isn't in the library yet), but I still had to make a public statement declaring neutrality, so I gambled on him being shy and a poor public speaker, or at least that he had no trait saying he wouldn't be. With my usual luck, he of course turns out to have no shortage of traits proclaiming how confident he is in public, and he even specifically enjoy being the centre of attention. :embarassed:

People in the WOTS/KOTR/LOTR series of games have a long history of ignoring traits that are inconvenient to their roleplaying. Often time a character will be developed in stories in posts in a certain direction and then will acquire a trait which is totally at odds with that development. Sometimes this provides a useful opportunity for a change in a character, but sometimes it is just annoying. It's your character, so you're free to embrace and ignore whatever traits you want whenever you want.

[mini]

true

But as far as I am concerned, I roleplay the way the game traits tell me. Keeps it challenging :)

[The Celtic Viking]

People in the WOTS/KOTR/LOTR series of games have a long history of ignoring traits that are inconvenient to their roleplaying. Often time a character will be developed in stories in posts in a certain direction and then will acquire a trait which is totally at odds with that development. Sometimes this provides a useful opportunity for a change in a character, but sometimes it is just annoying. It's your character, so you're free to embrace and ignore whatever traits you want whenever you want.

Well, yes, it's the same in WotB and BtSH, but just like mini here I still prefer to go with the traits anyway. So no more shy Appollonides Komnenos from me. :sweatdrop:

[miniwally]

:P i don't think any traits really effect me that badly i am a good attacker though hmmm..

[mini]

there, a quick personal rant in the magnaura and off to bed ;p

[GeneralHankerchief]

Hm, looks like I'm behind on the History again. In my defense, this was a bad weekend for me. I'll try to get it back up-to-date on Wednesday.

BTW, welcome to our new players! Nice to see some new faces. :medievalcheers:

[Ibn-Khaldun]

BTW, welcome to our new players! Nice to see some new faces.

And all those new faces are welcomed in the Order! :2thumbsup::clown:

[woad&fangs]

And all those new faces are welcomed in the Order! :2thumbsup::clown:

of St. Jude:jester:

[The Celtic Viking]

Hey! If you're going to fight for us, at least do it in a way that matters: show us some offers, now! :laugh4:

[ULC]

Hey! If you're going to fight for us, at least do it in a way that matters: show us some offers, now! :laugh4:

I offer you glory, men to command, honor for serving your duty, women and drink, long speeches to speak, books to read, long marches to make, internal power within my House second to only me, and the ability to kill off your brother and uncle, who are actually in your way for becoming Emperor.

:bow:

[woad&fangs]

If you side with me, I won't be forced to add you to the great wall of skulls I'm building to keep the Turks out~;p

Also, I'll rename Theopolis to Appolonopolis after I burn it to the ground, let it rebel, and burn it to the ground again, and then salt the earth so nothing grows.:balloon3:

and my army is bigger than Tagaris' army

[TheFlax]

and my army is bigger than Tagaris' army

Size matters not. Only the number of nigh invincible jedi bodyguards you have with you. I believe I have more of those. :clown:

[Zim]

He has a point there. :clown:


Size matters not. Only the number of nigh invincible jedi bodyguards you have with you. I believe I have more of those. :clown:

[The Celtic Viking]

YLC makes a good appeal to my wish to rape, pillage and plunder, but Woad makes an good appeal to my wish to have a barren, inhospitable, genocide-infested land of agonizing death named after me. Oh, I feel like I kid in a candy store! If only there was something to tip the scale... ~;p

[TinCow]

Size matters not. Only the number of nigh invincible jedi bodyguards you have with you. I believe I have more of those. :clown:

Do I need to point out how many avatars have died in battle in this game?

[TinCow]

Received this question by PM, replying here because I think my answer should be public knowledge:


Suppose there's a Captain-led stack belonging to a Rebel/Seccessionist/Independent Ruler. The Chancellor can't move that stack, but can any Senator, Loyalist or otherwise, seize the captain-led stack liek any other?

This is a loophole with the rules. I intended to put Captain stacks under the control of the Rebels when they were within their own 'Realms' to allow for shuffling of garrisons around and whatnot. This was meant to mimic the Megas' own abilities within the Empire, but on a smaller scale. While it's perfectly fine for other Rebels/etc. who are part of that rebellion to take control of Rebel Captain stacks by moving on top of them, it doesn't make sense for other Senators to be able to do so. Thus, any Senator who is at war with the rebels who encounters a Captain stack within their territory will fight that stack as a Custom Battle against the AI. Neutral Senators will just go on about their business, unable to 'seize' the stack, but also not involved in a battle with it.

Looks like I'll probably need a Loophole Cleanup Rule Change at the next session.

[ULC]

YLC makes a good appeal to my wish to rape, pillage and plunder, but Woad makes an good appeal to my wish to have a barren, inhospitable, genocide-infested land of agonizing death named after me. Oh, I feel like I kid in a candy store! If only there was something to tip the scale... ~;p

Do remember I pointed out to be Emperor, you would have to kill Andronikos. Considering average skill between the 2 players, I would suspect that W&F will come out on top, meaning TF is dead...but, then you would have to go and kill Andronikos, making you a bit of a traitor...but, you can keep your honor intact if you just simply join me, and then kill Andronikos ~;p

[Zim]

I think some of the deaths have been because people push to see just how nigh invulnerable their generals are.

When Magnentios died out of bad luck on charge one of his battle, I then was able to use the remaining bodyguards to slaughter the whole rest of the opposing army almost by themselves. :beam:


Do I need to point out how many avatars have died in battle in this game?

[TheFlax]

I think you're writing me off as dead pretty quickly, lots of things may happen between now and the possible battle. Also, I might not even command it.


I would suspect that W&F will come out on top, meaning TF is dead...

[ULC]

I think you're writing me off as dead pretty quickly, lots of things may happen between now and the possible battle. Also, I might not even command it.

Shush, I am recruiting followers....

[Cecil XIX]

I think you're writing me off as dead pretty quickly, lots of things may happen between now and the possible battle. Also, I might not even command it.

At least they're talking about you. Right, Igno?

[ULC]

At least they're talking about you. Right, Igno?

Your not important either, you don't even understand how to march an army to a location!

:clown:

[Askthepizzaguy]

Mmm... the old stomping grounds.

How's everyone been? What did I miss? Apparenly it's been a long time. Is the House Asteri still around?

[Cecil XIX]

Barely, as I understand.

[TheFlax]

Barely alive pretty much describes every "faction" in the Empire. :clown:

[Cecil XIX]

Maybe so, but at least people don't have to ask who's left to talk to when they want to contact other factions. :beam:

[rossahh]

We still own like 10 provinces, thank you very much.

[Ignoramus]

I know, and they'll be greatly appreciated by a Roman Augustus, when you join the Empire of the West.

[rossahh]

I haven't seen any offer.

[miniwally]

What happens if your in a battle with someone elses bodyguard (on your side) as well can the other guy die?

[_Tristan_]

yes, it happened a few times in KotR (the precedent game). I'm not sure it happened in this one though...

[TinCow]

What happens if your in a battle with someone elses bodyguard (on your side) as well can the other guy die?

Yes. If your avatar is moving with someone else's stack and that person is going to fight a battle, make sure you trust them not to get you killed. In KotR, someone actually became Kaiser (Emperor) because the previous Emperor died during a battle the new Emperor controlled.

[miniwally]

Yes. If your avatar is moving with someone else's stack and that person is going to fight a battle, make sure you trust them not to get you killed. In KotR, someone actually became Kaiser (Emperor) because the previous Emperor died during a battle the new Emperor controlled.

How does this work if it's a PvP battle as you can only have one captain is it if all unit is destroyed?

[TinCow]

No avatar will ever die as a result of a PvP battle, so it's not a concern. In any case, PvP battles with more than 2 avatars would be fought in a manner that would either allow no one to control themselves (AI Battle) or everyone to control themselves (Tabletop & Abbreviated Tabletop Battles).

[Cecil XIX]

No avatar will ever die as a result of a PvP battle,

No more 'Battle of Bern'-type endings? :thumbsdown:

[TinCow]

No more 'Battle of Bern'-type endings? :thumbsdown:

The deaths in the Battle of Bern were consensual. econ21 asked all players whether they would surrender (and be captured) or fight to the death if such a situation became necessary. IIRC, FactionHeir and Privateerkev opted to fight to the death, which is why they died. GH opted to surrender, but he did so to FH's men, who were under orders to kill anyone who surrendered. The above scenario could still occur in its entirety in LotR. I will certainly allow deaths to occur if the person dying agrees to it (as has already happened with pevergreen at Durazzo). I also already allow captured avatars to be executed by their captors. The only thing I will not allow is a random death in battle for no other reason. If someone is going to die in PvP, it will be because (1) they agree to it or (2) they are captured and executed by their captor.

[Cecil XIX]

May I ask why the Tax Rate in Constantinople and Nicaea were set to 'Normal' before the turn had ended? They are supposed to remain at 'Very High' for five turns, but so far they've only suffered the effects for two turns. (1194 and 1195-6)

Since Ioannis III is still a rebel, this appears to be a clear violation of the rules, necessitating that the turn be redone from LOTR-1197-10.

[Ituralde]

Yes. If your avatar is moving with someone else's stack and that person is going to fight a battle, make sure you trust them not to get you killed. In KotR, someone actually became Kaiser (Emperor) because the previous Emperor died during a battle the new Emperor controlled.

I had nothing to do with that... :creep:

[Zim]

My understanding is that the rebellion has ended with the treaty agreed upon between TheFlax and Ignoramus. Given that I was in on much of the negotiations involved in that treaty I felt fairly confident about what it entailed.

I would prefer if before accusing me of cheating people would actually pm me and ask me why I did something first. :no:

[TinCow]

There has been some confusion about the rules, which is perfectly understandable given their complexity, and the newness of the rebellion mechanics. A few things need be cleared up.

First, Rebels and Seccessionist cannot make peace treaties. This means that they will officially remain at war until they become Independent Ruler after 10 turns. The only way for people to get out of this war is to declare neutrality within the normal 1 turn period after it begins. Anyone who does not do this will remain at war until the ability to sign a peace treaty is restored when the rank of Independent Ruler is obtained. People are free to make IC agreements that they will not fight each other and even to support the rebellion, but this does not impact the war in any way. If you want to roleplay a peace treaty before the 10 turns have elapsed, simply refrain from hostilities against one another. The only other way for a rebel to get out of a war is to lose his Capital. If that happens, the rebellion collapses and is over, and a peace treaty can be signed. However, this also removes all benefits of the rebellion and re-incorporates all provinces into the Empire once again.

Second, there is no way to speed up the process of becoming a Secessionist or an Independent Ruler. Despite any political/diplomatic moves that may occur, a civil war is a messy thing. Even if armies are not fighting each other, the populous itself is in immense upheavel due to the fracture of the country and the shift in government. As such, there is nothing that can prevent taxes from being set to Very High in all rebel provinces for the first 5 turns. Similarly, there is nothing that can prevent taxes in neighboring loyalist settlements from bumping to High after 5 turns and Very High after 10 turns. Even if the rebellion is successful and a peace treaty is signed, the Empire itself will suffer a great deal in any area that borders the rebellion. Those settlements will be very hard to govern and keep order in. On an IC basis, this is because the social strife of having a nearby area split off from government rule gives confidence to local agitators who want to joint them. For these reasons, successful rebellions are very, very bad for the Empire. They can be tolerated, but it comes at a massive cost. A few simple words of agreement between the Basileus and the rebels don't solve all the problems.

In the current situation, the taxes in Nicea and Constantinople must be restored to Very High. A reply of the turn is not required, because those cities were adequately garrisoned anyway and would not have rebelled. As the rebellions both started in 1190 AD (correct me if I am wrong about this) the first 5 turns will expire in 1197 AD. At that time, the taxes in all rebel settlements can be set according to the wishes of their owners. At the same time, all loyalist settlements MUST have their taxes raised to High.

[Zim]

"first 5 turns will expire in 1197 AD"

It's already 1197, with the new turn being 1198 or 1199. Does that mean they're up to the secession level?

[mini]

offtopic, but

Ituralde: WoT = best damn thing i've ever read, can't wait for 12 MoL :)

second, my first act is a defeat.. *hides in shame*

[TheFlax]

It happens, my LotR career is mostly a string of failures. :clown:


second, my first act is a defeat.. *hides in shame*

[TinCow]

"first 5 turns will expire in 1197 AD"

It's already 1197, with the new turn being 1198 or 1199. Does that mean they're up to the secession level?

Yikes, the game is moving faster than I thought. If it's 1197, then all rebels have become Secessionists. They can thus control their own taxes once again and all adjacent loyalist cities MUST be bumped up to High taxes.

[miniwally]

offtopic, but

Ituralde: WoT = best damn thing i've ever read, can't wait for 12 MoL :)

second, my first act is a defeat.. *hides in shame*

at least the defeat wasn't to bad only average and now u got experience :D unlike me :(

[mini]

meh

I really routed 80% of their army about 3 times but they always rallied. Had no cav to harass them. One cav unit and that battle was won.

My char did het +2 HP and +2 morale for troops for being brave

[TinCow]

second, my first act is a defeat.. *hides in shame*

Perhaps, but your battle report has some of the best looking screenshots I've ever seen. Whatever you did to them looks phenomenally good.

[mini]

Nothing fancy

irfanview <3 :) too bad i didnt had the time to write a decent story about it.

[KnightnDay]

Yikes, the game is moving faster than I thought. If it's 1197, then all rebels have become Secessionists. They can thus control their own taxes once again and all adjacent loyalist cities MUST be bumped up to High taxes.

I declared neutrality in the affair. Does that still mean that Thessalonike has to bump up it's taxes since it is adjacent to Constantinople?

[Cecil XIX]

In the current situation, the taxes in Nicea and Constantinople must be restored to Very High. A reply of the turn is not required, because those cities were adequately garrisoned anyway and would not have rebelled. As the rebellions both started in 1190 AD (correct me if I am wrong about this) the first 5 turns will expire in 1197 AD.

I'm pretty sure the rebellions started in 1192. Igno's declaration was posted at 20:47, 2/18 and woad&fangs' was at 19:37 on the same day. (My time) Zim's next report was posted at 01:45 on the 19th, for the 1192/93 turn. Zim's report for that turn specifically states 1192 is the year both rebellions began. I believe this means that Igno's cities must have 'Very High' Taxes for one more turn. (1192, 1194, 1195, 1197, and 1198)

Also, although this might have been averted, Niceae was going to start revolting this turn, possibly damaging a happiness-improving building and making it impossible for Igno to stop it without also starting revolt in Constantinople. It could have been avoided, but since Igno didn't take the save himself he would have needed to send instructions to Zim to act on his behalf. Is this the case?


second, my first act is a defeat.. *hides in shame*

Don't feel too. Why, I failed in almost every major objective I set for myself in KotR. :yes:


Perhaps, but your battle report has some of the best looking screenshots I've ever seen. Whatever you did to them looks phenomenally good.

Seconded. It's a rare treat to see someone put work into their screenshots beyond taking and uploading them.

[mini]

glad you all like it as much as i like this game :)

[TinCow]

I'm pretty sure the rebellions started in 1192. Igno's declaration was posted at 20:47, 2/18 and woad&fangs' was at 19:37 on the same day. (My time) Zim's next report was posted at 01:45 on the 19th, for the 1192/93 turn. Zim's report for that turn specifically states 1192 is the year both rebellions began. I believe this means that Igno's cities must have 'Very High' Taxes for one more turn. (1192, 1194, 1195, 1197, and 1198)

You've convinced me. The rebels will stay at that rank until 1198, and thus tax rates will stay at Very High until 1198 as well.


Also, although this might have been averted, Niceae was going to start revolting this turn, possibly damaging a happiness-improving building and making it impossible for Igno to stop it without also starting revolt in Constantinople. It could have been avoided, but since Igno didn't take the save himself he would have needed to send instructions to Zim to act on his behalf. Is this the case?

This is annoying. However a good battle has already been fought and it would be unfair to force it to be fought again. To compensate, Niceae will remain at Very High taxes for one additional turn. As with before, if I am making any factual errors that might impact the outcome of this decision, please let me know.


I declared neutrality in the affair. Does that still mean that Thessalonike has to bump up it's taxes since it is adjacent to Constantinople?

Yep. Successful rebellions are bad for everyone but the rebels.

[TheFlax]

On the subject of Niceae, when can Ignoramus actually give me the city rulewise? Since he's handing it to me as per the IC treaty we signed.

[TinCow]

Settlements can be trasferred any time from anyone and to anyone.

[Zim]

Does the save need to be frozen pending the pvp battle? I can't remember if it occurs at the end of the turn or not...

[Ignoramus]

So how can TheFlax and I carry out our treaty? Because it's important to both of us to get it implemented as soon as possible.

[Zim]

I think some of it can be implemented immediately, like moving the capital.

I guess if you want to officially end the rebellion it's a matter of waiting out the turns until Ioannis Komnenos reaches independent ruler status.

The rest would require some rule changes, if we can get the votes.

[woad&fangs]

btw, my preference for the PvP battle is to have a tabletop or abreviated tabletop battle.

[Ituralde]

So how can TheFlax and I carry out our treaty? Because it's important to both of us to get it implemented as soon as possible.

The way I see it in the rules the only way to achieve lasting changes is through an ordinary Civil War and then an ordinary peace treaty as to the Civil Wars rule section. Since the content of your peace treaty is not limited to the exchange of provinces you will have to ratify it in the Magnaura with a two third majority.

In essence it would be a Rule Change. The easiest way to do it would be to add the rank of Western Roman Emperor for Ioannis Komnenos III. I would talk this through with TinCow though either way.

Cheers!

Ituralde

[TinCow]

So how can TheFlax and I carry out our treaty? Because it's important to both of us to get it implemented as soon as possible.

1) Surrender your Capital to him, which will let you lose your Rebel rank and thus sign a peace treaty.
2) Wait until you are an Independent Ruler and then sign a peace treaty.

The above is only required to officially stop the war. As has been noted, you can start obeying the spirit of the peace treaty immediately. You're free to give Niceae to him, and he can move the Capital there. Then just refrain from fighting until you can make peace. Keep in mind that if you do this, Niceae will have to deal with mandatory High taxes when you are a rebel and Very High taxes when you are an Independent Ruler.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Gah, if Zim would've ended the save yesterday I would've moved myself away from this battle. Unfortunately I can't do that anymore! Anyway, I want to let everyone know that Theo will not surrender and would rather die.:drama2:


Battle near Edessa:

Andronikos starts the battle with a charge::charge:

And then Theo and Andronikos fight::duel:

Finally, Theo decides to end the battle::robot:

Andronikos' response::scared:

And finally Andronikos surrenders::surrender2::sorry2:



:clown:

[mini]

Ibn

I was on my way to you, standing on that bridge close to you.
You should have picked me up when you went back to Theopolis ;)

[Ibn-Khaldun]

I never got the chance to go back to Theopolis since woad&fangs managed to get the save before me.

Question: Theo is besieging currently Edessa. This means that he is between Andronikos' and Turkish forces. Will that play any part in this upcoming battle? Currently, IC, looks like Andronikos' forces have surprised Theo's men and they will fight the battle near the walls of Edessa.

[TinCow]

I'll leave the geography of the battlefield up to the umpire (GH, if it is tabletop). The Turks will not play any part in the battle. They'll be happy to sit back and watch their enemies kill each other.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Argh, IE went down on me just as I was about to post the initial stuff for the battle. Now I have to retype it from scratch. Look for it soon.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

So, it's close. The demise of Andronikos! :clown:

[GeneralHankerchief]

That's up to you. :tongue:

[Ibn-Khaldun]

I know it's up to me! That's way I said "The demise of Andronikos"! ~;) :clown:

[GeneralHankerchief]

The Battle of Edessa thread is up. Please read it carefully and let me know if you have any questions. PvP is complicated stuff and what makes sense in my head doesn't necessarily translate well to other people. In addition, I strongly recommend reading the links that TinCow provided to other PvP battles in the other Edessa thread.

[woad&fangs]

Everything in the Edessa battle thread seems to make sense to me:balloon3:

Now I just need to figure out how to deal with Theo's cavalry:study:

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Yes, it's fine for me too! :yes:


Now I just need to figure out how to deal with Theo's cavalry

For me it's the opposite thing. I need to figure out how to deal with Andronikos' infantry:study:

[GeneralHankerchief]

All right, excellent. You have 24 hours to send in your deployments, guys. :charge:

[Ituralde]

This should be very interesting. I look forward to reading the writeups. I really admire the effort you put into these things GH! :2thumbsup:

[GeneralHankerchief]

Turn 0 feedback sent.

[mini]

I do have a question related to the battle, though not it's proceedings.

I've read that Andronikos Komnenos (woad&fangs) came from the west. Now I was lookign at the screen. The besieged city is at a river, with no obvious crossings. So I assume he came from the South-west?
Else woad's avatar is blocking view of the river crossing

That avatar in the lower left corner, is standing on a bridge. Now I'm not sure of the map, but on the screen that's the only crossing I can see from the west.

Considering that that avatar on the bridge there is loyal to theflax, ergo an ally of Petzoas, shouldn't there have been some sort of battle there when woad crossed the bridge?

Not that it would change much. Woad would have only a handful armymen less, but Ibn would have had a chance to escape perhaps :)

Just a point of thought. If woads avatar is blocking view on the crossing just north of him, I will stand corrected.
Don't have acces to the game at work.

[Zim]

There's a bridge just north of Andronikos' army. You can see it in the screenshot if you look closely. :yes:

[mini]

I saw a road there, but see no crossing.

Well I wasn't sure so I thought to ask anyway :)

[flyd]

There is always a bridge when a road meets a river. But beside the roads which have bridged river-crossings, what have the Romans ever done for us?

[TinCow]

There is always a bridge when a road meets a river. But beside the roads which have bridged river-crossings, what have the Romans ever done for us?

They've certainly never brought public order and the rule of law. :laugh4:

[GeneralHankerchief]

Let's hear it for timely orders and two cancelled classes! :2thumbsup:

[TinCow]

Yikes, the armies seemed far less balanced in the actual game than they do on the most recent battle map! :sweatdrop:


Let's hear it for timely orders and two cancelled classes! :2thumbsup:

Heh, my wife and I took advantage of the government's unscheduled leave option to stay home and play Dawn of War II. Most of our co-workers were similarly 'inconvenienced' by the snow. :2thumbsup:

[GeneralHankerchief]

Yikes, the armies seemed far less balanced in the actual game than they do on the most recent battle map! :sweatdrop:

I think a big part of it was, in-game, a lot of Theo's cavalry was down to half strength. Me merging a lot of the units together took care of a few unit cards which explains why the difference looks so scary.

[flyd]

It looks like a done deal to me. Theo's supposed cavalry advantage is only slight. He only has one excess unit to maneuver with, and while his cavalry has more strength per unit, Andy has too large a number of excess spearmen to help out with. In a shootout, the foot archers negate the slight cavalry advantage, or even shift the balance to their side altogether.

I see only one outcome here, unless w&f manages to botch the entire thing in a spectacular fashion. It could happen, I suppose, but if I were IK, I would be asking GH to clarify the details of his withdawal and retreat options. :beam:

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Well, I can tell you that Theo will never surrender. He will rather die than do that. :yes:

[AussieGiant]

Hi there guy's!!

I hope all is well in the land of Byzantium and intrigue.

I've just had the pleasure of spending the weekend in Istanbul and I managed to visit the:

Hagia Sophia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hagia_Sophia

SultanAhmet Mosque (Blue Mosque) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sultan_Ahmed_Mosque_(Istanbul)

and the Hippodrome: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippodrome_of_Constantinople

We then managed a trip on the Bosporus and eat like kings for three days...

...all I can say is wow!!

It's something else entirely, to actually see the places this game is being played in. To stand in the Hagia Sophia and look around the inside and hear the history of what has taken place over the last 1600 years was incredible.

To me it is still an impressive feat of collaboration to have so many people recreating the feel and atmosphere of what it would be like to be a noble at this period of time...the level of involvement, organisation, negotiations, it's seems nearly real to me.

So...with that said, the reality is that I am unable to continue in any real significant capacity with this game and would therefore like to withdraw.

I'd like to thank you all for your participation and sharing your time with me, I look forward to reading with great interest the on going story of the "Last of the Romans".

Take it easy guys.

Cheers
AG.

[Ramses II CP]

It's always been a pleasure AG. Come back when you can. :yes:

:egypt:

[TinCow]

So...with that said, the reality is that I am unable to continue in any real significant capacity with this game and would therefore like to withdraw.

I'd like to thank you all for your participation and sharing your time with me, I look forward to reading with great interest the on going story of the "Last of the Romans".

I'm very sorry to hear that, AG, though with your recent travel schedule I'm not surprised. Make sure you keep in touch though, this place wouldn't be the same without you!

[AussieGiant]

Hi TC, Ramses,

Thank guy's. I'll be around and will be reading regularly.

In many ways I need a break from the game, going from one to another was a little too much.

[GeneralHankerchief]

AG, it's been an amazing ride these past two years. As previously expressed, this place won't be the same without you. I'll miss ya, man. :yes:

To everyone else, sorry for the delay. Midterms today.

[Ituralde]

Not that it was entirely unexpected to hear you withdraw AG. I hope you take the time to refresh and come back once more with new vigour. You have been a great addition to these games and I hope we haven't heard the last of you! :beam:

[GeneralHankerchief]

All right, we have some combat to be resolved this turn and it may get complicated, as you'll see once I make the umpire notes public. Right now, we're waiting on Zim. :yes:

[AussieGiant]

Thanks GH and Ituralde.

I'm looking forward to a break...some Empire TWarring and then perhaps the next game...:beam:

[Cecil XIX]

Your presence is sorely missed, AG. Here's hoping you'll come back soon. :yes:

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Aussie, just like the others I hope you join us again!

GH, when will the next turn in the Battle of Edessa coming up?

[GeneralHankerchief]

As soon as Zim's finished with it. Hopefully this will be in a few hours, as tomorrow is my birthday and I'll probably be playing ETW for most of the day (what a great coincidence, eh? :beam:).

If it doesn't work out like that, I'm sure I'll find time to get it done tomorrow. I don't want the game on hold for too long.

[Zim]

It took me some time since a power surge wiped my computer clean the other day, but the tests are pretty much done, results likely to be up tomorrow sometime tomorrow. :yes:

[Cecil XIX]

In retrospect, it's a happy coincidence that Empire's been released when we're taking an intermission in LOTR via this battle.

[mini]

Meh.. :)

[AussieGiant]

Ibn-Khaldun, Cecil,

Thanks for the kind words.

[TinCow]

AG, if you're looking for something a bit different (and will have regular net access for a couple weeks at a time), you could try some of the mafia games in the Gameroom. They're an interesting and refreshing change from the Throne Room games, and require nothing but access to the forums to play. The games also last only about 1-2 weeks, depending on size, so they're easy to jump in and play for a short period, then take a break from. I consider them to be something like a game of verbal and intellectual chess.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Resolution received, will be implemented in a couple of hours (only one class on Wednesdays, thank goodness).

And AG, I do second what TinCow said. As an added bonus, in some games it definitely serves to sharpen Illuminati skills. :yes:

[AussieGiant]

Yeah I'll always be online as part of my job so thanks for the input TC and GH.

You're both a little renowned over there actually, so I've always flirted with the idea.

I'm going to take a look.

-edit-

What should we do with my character. It feels like he's been alive for a thousand years.

[TinCow]

Whatever you want, AG. If you want him stored someplace, that can be done, or if you're sure you're done with him I can arrange for a quick dip in the Bosphorus.

[AussieGiant]

He can stay where he is. I get the impression he's fairly useful governing the place. :balloon2:

[Ituralde]

He can stay where he is. I get the impression he's fairly useful governing the place. :balloon2:

Must be all the practice! :laugh2:

[AussieGiant]

Must be all the practice! :laugh2:

:beam:

[GeneralHankerchief]

Asking TinCow for a clarification on rules. The turn will finish once I wake up (it's 4AM now, let's hear it for Watchmen midnight showings! :2thumbsup:).

[Ibn-Khaldun]

I guess this can only mean bad thing for Theo. ~:(

[GeneralHankerchief]

The Battle of Edessa thread has been updated with the newest turn as well as all of the orders, umpire notes, and private feedback for the battle. As mentioned, I'll leave it to TinCow to determine how to deal with the units that surrendered.

I'd like to thank Zim once again for being a big help from the process. As you can see from the umpire notes, he did an amazing job of simulating the results and sending them to me in interpretable form. If I'm ever unavailable to run a PvP battle in the future, you guys are definitely in good hands. :bow:

[TinCow]

Manh thanks to GH and Zim for running the battle. I will implement the results into the actual game when I get home this evening. The game can then resume normal play immediately afterwards.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Although it's not my decision I doubt that Theo's men would join Andronikos. Not after they fought with Theo in two heroic battles against the Turks. Even if they didn't love Theo they must have respected him enough not to join his enemy. At least I think so.
But like I said it's not my decision and I'm happy with what ever TC decides! :yes:

Also, could TC queue some RBG's in Antiokheia for me. I suppose Theo died since I made it clear many times that he would rather die than surrender or let him captured?

[woad&fangs]

Well fought, IK:balloon3:

edit: I can't really see Theo's men fighting for Andy either.

Also, Ituralde, I didn't move you before the battle started. You may want to do that before the turn ends.

[TinCow]

I was intending to give the survivors to Andronikos, as I did in the previous battle, but if you both agree that they wouldn't join him, then I will simply disband them. :bow:

[Zim]

I'm glad I could help. If anyone has any questions or concerns about how I ran the battles I'm happy to hear them. I tried very hard to be fair to all sides (part of the reason there were so many test battles) and I second guessed myself quite a bit. :sweatdrop:

If it's pretty much agreed that Theo's men wouldn't join Andronikos but there's still a need to award the latter for winning the battle, maybe one of his unit casualties could recover after whatever medical care Eastern Romans would have received? Or some mercenary troops heard of the victory and joined him?

Just a thought.

Thanks for such a great battle Ibn and Woad! Curse those dreaded cavalry units that only respond when they want to. :furious3: If you ever have some time, check out the battle of Bern where someone had even worse luck for one of his cavalry divisions. :yes:

Megas Note: I won't be taking the save at least until tomorrow since I have an event to go to in just a few moments. Plenty of time for anyone whose moves might change because of the battle's results. :bow:

[Ituralde]

Well fought, IK:balloon3:

edit: I can't really see Theo's men fighting for Andy either.

Also, Ituralde, I didn't move you before the battle started. You may want to do that before the turn ends.

Will do so later tonight.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Thanks for such a great battle Ibn and Woad! Curse those dreaded cavalry units that only respond when they want to. :furious3: If you ever have some time, check out the battle of Bern where someone had even worse luck for one of his cavalry divisions. :yes:

And Rome too. But we don't talk about that. :furious3:

[Andres]

I'm afraid I'll have to bow out off this game.

The combination of playing mafia, moderating the Gameroom and the MP forums and RL doesn't leave me with enough time to get really involved into this one.

This game requires more time and dedication than I can put into it at the moment. My apologies :bow:

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Another long time player leaves!
I hope you come back Andres. It's impossible to stay away from it too long! ~;)

[Ituralde]

As with all the others it is sad to see you go and I hope you'll find the time to return some day, Andres!

In the meantime, enjoy Empire: Total War! :beam:

[Zim]

I finished an unpleasantly long test and my evening will be free. The perfect* reign of Arintheos comes to a close tonight. All moves and requests for moves should be made by then.

* Disclaimer, the author's definition of "perfect" may not align with that of any sane person and may include rebellions, crippling debt, loss to external enemies, and wars involving much marching around. The Eastern Roman Empire and its subsidiaries does not accept any responsibilities for discrepancies between the author's use of the word "perfect" to describe the reign of his character and the word's more common uses.

[Zim]

Save's up, although closed for the new session, I believe.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Could someone please post the screenshots of those generals that were recruited?

[TinCow]

I'll do so this evening if no one else has done it before then.

[TinCow]

Here's your motley crew, Ibn:

https://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b203/TinCow/LOTR/1200/a.jpg
https://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b203/TinCow/LOTR/1200/b.jpg
https://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b203/TinCow/LOTR/1200/c.jpg
https://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b203/TinCow/LOTR/1200/d.jpg
https://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b203/TinCow/LOTR/1200/e.jpg
https://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b203/TinCow/LOTR/1200/f.jpg

Any traits that are cut off in those mugshots are just the usual supply system traits.

[Zim]

The way my generals seem to be made of paper and crumple up at the slightest impact on enemy unit's flanks, I'd kill for that guy with marks of war if I were getting a new guy. :laugh4:

[TinCow]

The total lack of activity in the Magnaura is discouraging. Is everyone off playing ETW?

[Ignoramus]

Not me, unfortunately. My machine won't run it. :thumbsdown: