The Shadow Fort [Concluded]

[White_eyes:D]

I recommend we find Ibn's corpse and we kill it with fire.
I say he's bluffing....unless, you know something I don't?:inquisitive:

And if he is dead.....why should I attack him?:laugh4:

[Crazed Rabbit]

The night phase ends in 1 and a half hours.

CR

[Crazed Rabbit]

Orders closed.

CR

[Crazed Rabbit]

The Shadow Fort, Day Five

White Eyes was not having a good day. His misfortunate was about to extend into the night.

He exited the keep just as more snow began to fall. He had almost made it to his room when two men emerged before him, holding swords.

White Eyes roared and ran at the men, his sword held high. The two attackers hesitated, seeing no one behind White Eyes. Before they could run, White Eyes was upon them, slashing with his sword.

“Almost lynch me, will you? And now you come to attack me in the night?”

The two attackers managed to fend off the blows as they backed up. Still no one came from behind White Eyes. With a glance to each other, the attackers turned and ran.

One slipped on a snow-covered cobblestone, and lost hold of his sword while falling. Frantically he scrambled over the snow to reach it.

But he could not, and the last sight he saw was White Eyes towering over him, plunging a sword at his chest.

Diamondeye bled to death in the snow.

Outside the tavern a group of men waited, snow accumulating on their cloaks. Their target had been inside for quite a while, and they began to get impatient. Just as one was about to move, the door to the tavern opened.

Reenk Roink stepped out, pausing for a second to let his eyes adjust to the darkness. Then he scanned the shadows in front of him.

The four men waiting fidgeted uncomfortably. Surely he wouldn’t be able to see them? Reenk did not seem to; he began walking right into the middle of the group.

“Kill him!” yelled an attacker, and the four stepped to attack.

Reenk was quicker. Without hesitation he yelled and ran towards the nearest attacker before he had completely emerged from the shadows. Reenk’s sword was out in a flash, and he swiftly drove it towards the torso of his attacker, knocking aside an attempted deflection.

With a sword driven into his chest, the attacker gasped and fell over, clutching at his clothing. All this happened so quickly the other attackers were not able to get to Reenk and strike him while his back was turned to them.

As his first attacker slumped to the ground Reenk pivoted and faced the remaining three attackers. Two men with swords moved in and swung. Reenk deflected one blow as he moved sideways so the other could not strike at him.

“Well hello gentlemen. Here to lecture me about the evils of liquor?” he teased.

The third attacker had held back, but now lunged with a spear. The spearhead came within of Reenk’s side, who jumped to avoid it. He no longer smiled.

All three attackers turned on Reenk again. He kept moving to the side, trying to isolate and strike at the man on the end of the three as he deflected numerous strikes. But he could not get into a good position, because the other two men would prevent him from fatally striking the third.

He decided it was time to deal with his attackers for good. Reenk stepped towards the spearman in the center of the group, deflecting his spear with his sword. With his other hand he grabbed the spear, then punched the spearman’s face with the pommel of his sword. Stunned and bloodied, the spearman staggered back. The other two attackers struck at Reenk, who lunged at the man to his left. With his free hand he grabbed the attacker’s sword arm. Conscious of the attacker now right behind him, he swung himself and the attacker he held around, placing one attacker in the way of the other.

As he did, he thrust his sword at the man he held, but missed his neck and struck the shoulder in a glancing blow. He quickly elbowed the man in the face than shoved him aside. The final attacker paused. His two standing comrades were bloody and staggering. Reenk waited for the attack, but it didn’t come. The attackers he had injured ran off, as did the final attacker.

Reenk relaxed slightly and went to check on the body of the attacker he had stabbed in the chest.

He found nothing. There was an impression in the snow where the attacker had fallen, but no body nor blood. Reenk Roink decided to make his way home quickly.

He was almost there when another figure leaped from the shadows.

“Prepare to die, Reenk!” he shouted from beneath his hood. Reenk was already looking around for more attackers. There were none.

“I guess it’s just the two of us,” Reenk smiled and advanced. This body would stay down.

“Erm, actually, I think this was all a mistake – I meant ‘prepare for fry’ – you know, fish fried over a fire,” said the attacker, backing up quickly now.

“Wait, is that you Methos?” asked Reenk.
“What, me? No!” denied Methos, silently cursing the poor quality of his hood. He would have words with his tailor when he saw him again. But for now he decided to run.

Reenk decided not to chase, and went to his room, where he stayed awake for the rest of the night, silently staring at the door, sword in hand.

Thermal Mercury was not having a good time in the fort. Before he came here he was often a jovial fellow with his friends at the tavern.

But ever since the first night after the snowstorm, he thought he could see figures watching him. He would be walking along in the dark and hear a noise behind him, with nothing but darkness when he quickly turned around. Or he would come to his room and it would seem ever so slightly different, as though people had been moving things and then trying to return them to their original spots. It was not conducive to a jovial mindset.

So now he scampered along the snow covered grounds of the fort, clutching his sword, looking frantically around him. No Turks or any of the other killers would be able to catch him. As soon as he detected them he’d run so fast they wouldn’t even see him.

Between his nervous glancing in front and behind him, Thermal barely saw the figure emerge from the shadows to his side, holding a long sword. Now his back was to a wall.

His attacker wasted no time, raising his sword and approaching fast. Thermal didn’t wait and ran, but his attacker cut him off with quick movement and a sword strike. Thermal decided to run in the other direction, away from his attacker. But the cloaked figure had already begun striking again as Thermal turned.

The blade struck his side and Thermal yelled in pain, staggering to his right and swinging wildly with his sword. The attacker hung back until the sword passed him, then lunged forward and landed multiple blows on Thermal, who fell to the ground a dead man.


In the tavern pevergreen had been talking with other patrons. After a while the others left and so did pevergreen. He walked quickly through the cold air to his room. He was about halfway there and rounding a corner when he was attacked.

He grunted and fell as the crossbow bolt hit him square in the back. As soon as he hit the ground he tried to get up, cried out in pain, and then fell to the ground and began crawling.

He looked behind him but could see nothing but shadows and the falling snow, which played tricks with his vision. Just as it seemed a shadow was about to take shape as his attacker, the darkness shifted and the outlines of the form vanished.

Pevergreen had been crawling for several moments when he glanced forward and saw the boots of someone. He strained his neck to look up and saw a sword coming at his eyes.

His attacker wiped the blood off his blade and quickly retreated into the darkness.

********************************

Three had died in the night, and Gerard was not happy. They had killed at least one of the Turkish spies, but still men were murdered in the night, in his own fort! And he could do nothing but watch as the crowd talked and talked and got nothing done.

He looked at the reports on the men who had died several days ago, muttering about how bad news always accompanied good news.

The crowd had assembled in the usual spot. There seemed to be a palpable feel of fear among them. What might had seemed like an adventure at first had become much more serious.

“Attention, people,” called out Gerard as he came down the stairs and entered the large room.

“We have good news and bad news. First, the news that is neither. My men have combed the belongings of those who have died. Being the competent investigators they are, they have taken only two full days and access to everything the deceased possessed to find out who they are.

“The man we lynched, Kagemusha, does not appear to be a Turk, nor was he a soldier of this fort. From what we could tell he was just a traveler, since my men could find nothing that unusual in his belongings. He had some normal traveling items, and also a pouch of Hungarian coins,” Gerard shivered, and looked at the doors to the keep, which where closed.

“So…nothing out of the ordinary, really. Then we have another man, Chaotix, who was killed during the night. My men could find nothing to tie him to the Turks, and he wasn’t a soldier. His belongings included some normal traveling items, along with a small bit of mistletoe.

“Now, we have some bad news. Seamus Fermanagh was the military constable of the fort. My men were able to deduce his assignment here, and they found a book containing investigation notes, but they were coded. My men have started to try and decipher them, but considering they took two days to tell me Seamus had been an important officer, I wouldn’t wait for it.”

A couple men in the crowd muttered. Gerard shot them a sharp glare, and they stopped and looked to the floor.

“Right. Now for the good report! A Very Super Market was a Turkish spy! We found some coded instructions in Turkish various unusual weaponry, along with other clues that told us he was a spy.

“So take heart men, and hunt down the last of those Turks!”

It is now the day phase! You will have 29 hours, until 7 am PST Monday March 22.

Alive:
Beskar
a completely inoffensive name
Csargo
Jolt
atheotes
Sasaki Kojiro
Joooray
GeneralHankerchief
TinCow
Askthepizzaguy
White_eyes:D
Subotan
Reenk Roink
Yaropolk
Sigurd
TheFlax
Yaseikhaan
slashandburn
Double A
Beefy187
Myrddraal
Cultured Drizzt fan
Scienter
Renata
spL1tp3r50naL1ty
Captain Blackadder
Seon
Methos
autolycus
johnhughtom
Psychonaut


Lynched:
Kagemusha D2
Secura D3
Ibn-Khaldun D4


Killed:
Chaotix N2
Seamus Fermanagh N2
A Very Super Market N2
Winston Hughes N3
Centurion1 N3
Diamondeyes N4
Thermal Mercury N4
pevergreen N4

[Ibn-Khaldun]

TM or pever(or both of them) were most likely killed by the spies.

[pevergreen]

Uncool.

I blame some people.

[Subotan]

PEVERGREEN was definitely killed by the same guy who attacked me the night before.

[pevergreen]

If I was alive, I would destroy you.

[Seon]

PEVERGREEN was definitely killed by the same guy who attacked me the night before.

PEVERGREEN

PEVERGREEN

PEVERGREEN

Let's finish his job then, shall we? Vote: Subotan

[pevergreen]

You added extras.

You're next.

Did I ask people to take out Reenk? If yes thank you for trying, if no, thanks anyway. :beam:

[Subotan]

Let's finish his job then, shall we? Vote: Subotan
I live and die by my principles

[Reenk Roink]

Methos was part of Sasaki's crew, I don't know why you attacked alone really, Sasaki too busy with the original plan? :laugh4:

Vote: Winston Hughes Fairly sure he was one of the 4 that attacked me, perhaps the supernatural fellow who doesn't bleed when stabbed.

[Methos]

I just went back over my PM and could find nothing stating that I would be recognized at each attack, so apparently I just have really bad luck. Secondly, thanks for all the help. Not only did I attack Reenk by myself, but even the member of my team who suggested we attack Reenk didn't even bother to show up.

[Methos]

Vote: Winston Hughes Fairly sure he was one of the 4 that attacked me, perhaps the supernatural fellow who doesn't bleed when stabbed.

Winston is dead, remember. He died on an unsuccessful attack.

[Reenk Roink]

Winston is dead, remember. He died on an unsuccessful attack.

Oh... :embarrased: Who was your partner?

[naut]

My gut says CDf is something.

Vote: CDf

[Winston Hughes]

Vote: Winston Hughes Fairly sure he was one of the 4 that attacked me, perhaps the supernatural fellow who doesn't bleed when stabbed.

I wish it was me. Undead is much cooler than just dead.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

I wish it was me. Undead is much cooler than just dead.

Unless you play ATPG's Resident Evil game :tongue:

[Seon]

oh yes. How can we forget. Better paranoid than sorry.

Unvote, Vote: Ibn Khaldun

[Methos]

Oh... :embarrased: Who was your partner?


Secondly, thanks for all the help. Not only did I attack Reenk by myself, but even the member of my team who suggested we attack Reenk didn't even bother to show up.

Obviously no one. :brood:

[TinCow]

Worth noting that AVSM died while attacking Yaropolk. The write-up indicates he should have had a partner with him who did not appear, resulting in his death. Also note that AVSM was using the crossbow, so it's likely that the crossbow attacks are the mafia attacks while all others are vig groups.

[Scienter]

Fos:Methos :inquisitive:

[Reenk Roink]

Ok, Methos isn't talking to me in PM about why and who, even though he seems to be trying to pass off a feeling of betrayal by his teammates. :dizzy2:

Vote: Methos until we get some answers.

By the way to everyone who attacked me: you got ROCKED (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58aTwh7Po8M)! :laugh4: :2thumbsup:

[Jolt]

My gut says CDf is something.

Vote: CDf

That thought did cross my mind too. Since we have no leads whatsoever, it's as good enough as any.[/b]

Vote: CDF

[naut]

oh yes. How can we forget. Better paranoid than sorry.

Unvote, Vote: Ibn Khaldun
Also dead. I'm tempted to vote you.

[Methos]

Ok, Methos isn't talking to me in PM about why and who, even though he seems to be trying to pass off a feeling of betrayal by his teammates. :dizzy2:

Vote: Methos until we get some answers.

It's funny how you fail to mention that I informed you that I had no reason to answer you until my suspicions about you were removed. But, I guess that's just a technicality and it isn't worthy enough for a mention.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

oh yes. How can we forget. Better paranoid than sorry.

Unvote, Vote: Ibn Khaldun

Lol.. this is funny! :laugh4:

[Diamondeye]

That was not really what I had in mind when I agreed to attacking White_eyes, Sasaki. Arrange an attack and then call it off at the last moment, leaving your two timezone-handicapped travelers alone, one of them to bleed to death in the snow?

For everyone who'd like to hear what's going on, here's my story in short version:

The night before this, after I posted that I wanted to protect Sigurd, Sasaki Kojiro contacted me and offered a place in a protection group. The group had originally included Renata, Sasaki, Yaseikhaan and Reenk Roink, but RR had decided to go vigging instead, so I got his place. We defended against a single attacker, Csargo. Woo.

Next, tonight, Sasaki asks the same people if we want to join in on a vighit on White_Eyes. We all hesitantly agree and send in orders (actually, Renata hadn't send in orders when I left, so me, Sasaki and Yaseikhaan).
Now, when I wake up and check the forums, I see a PM from Sasaki cancelling the attack, stating that AskThePizzaGuy has called off the attack because he knows that White_Eyes:D is innocent. So Sasaki doesn't attack. But neither me nor Yaseikhaan are in time to cancel the attack. Being the traveller I am, it seems plausible enough that I die in attacking someone who's better when we're only two.

Now, I know this is probably both paranoid and slightly vengeful, but I'd like Sasaki Kojiro, White_Eyes:D and Renata to speak up about why exactly this thing was set up.
I'd also like a clarification from AskThePizzaGuy as to whether Sasaki is correct in quoting you as defending White_Eyes:D

Until I have had my proper explanations and preferably also an apology, I'd like to point the FoS: Sasaki Kojiro, White_Eyes:D, Renata.

And then I'm going to join the dead. Hey, Kage, sup Secura, how's life (or death) in this corner over here?

[Winston Hughes]

Unless you play ATPG's Resident Evil game :tongue:

Having recently turned into a zombie in that game, I consider myself quite well informed on the relative merits of death and undeath. :tongue:

[Secura]

Hey, Kage, sup Secura, how's life (or death) in this corner over here?

It's not too bad, really; you get to sit back and watch the town scurry around killing the innocent and generally going mental at one another.

Bit of a shame that your vigilante group cancelled at the last minute, but then it is something that I feel is a flaw in that particular game mechanic. Perhaps you will place your faith more carefully in the future. :3

[Thermal]

I guess I should have done something tonight, my attacker must have been strong...

:shrug:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Voting is pointless right now. We need to figure out who the attacker on reenk who didn't bleed is. And why reenk is so belligerent :)

Reenk fought well in a manner unlike myself or jolt.

[Diamondeye]

Worth noting that AVSM died while attacking Yaropolk. The write-up indicates he should have had a partner with him who did not appear, resulting in his death. Also note that AVSM was using the crossbow, so it's likely that the crossbow attacks are the mafia attacks while all others are vig groups.

I think this is a solid deduction; The Turks attack with crossbows (or some of them do).

Also, this should clear Yaro of being Turk. Did anyone vote against AVSM and under what circumstances, can people remember that?


It's not too bad, really; you get to sit back and watch the town scurry around killing the innocent and generally going mental at one another.

Bit of a shame that your vigilante group cancelled at the last minute, but then it is something that I feel is a flaw in that particular game mechanic. Perhaps you will place your faith more carefully in the future. :3

True. I had sort of promised myself I'd only do protections but then Sasaki (:inquisitive:) convinced me otherwise. But he'sm apologized and I'm willing to slip teh FoS from him and onto...
FoS: Seon.


Voting is pointless right now. We need to figure out who the attacker on reenk who didn't bleed is. And why reenk is so badass :)

Reenk fought well in a manner unlike myself or jolt.

I'd say that goes well with Jolt being a soldier and Reenk being Sergeant or something like that.

Am I right in assuming that Reenk's attackers won't just step forward..?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

But jolt is a sergeant, I'm a warrior. I have a sword he has a halberd.


Reenk was quicker. Without hesitation he yelled and ran towards the nearest attacker before he had completely emerged from the shadows. Reenk’s sword was out in a flash, and he swiftly drove it towards the torso of his attacker, knocking aside an attempted deflection.

With a sword driven into his chest, the attacker gasped and fell over, clutching at his clothing. All this happened so quickly the other attackers were not able to get to Reenk and strike him while his back was turned to them.

Reenk is simply very fast. And his attacker here gets stabs right through but then runs off.

[Seon]

Not actually true. Methos and his accomplices used crossbows to ambush Centurion. And I am pretty certain that Methos is not a Turkish spy.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Crossbows don't mean much actually. Remember that CR said players can influence what and how things are written in the write up?
Though, if crossbows are Spy weapons then it doesn't have to be the weapon that recruited people use.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Vote:Reenk Roink

[Beskar]

vote: Reenk Roink

[Subotan]

Vote: Methos
"I'm not telling because you're not telling" is a nice trick, if you can get away with it.

[Reenk Roink]

Sasaki, I've been very considerate about keeping your activities quiet from the public and talking about them to you in private (despite the fact that your decisions have all sucked) and you vote for me because I got better skills than you and Jolt? :pleased: Despite the fact that I was the one who started the downfall of Secura? :inquisitive:

Unvote: Methos
Vote: CDf

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Yes. My actions aren't really private btw.

There are other mafia factions besides the turkish. Jolt and I are the toughest named pro town roles. Therefore you are either a pro town special role, in which case you can claim and be protected. Or a bad guy of some sort. And, if you don't claim, given that the purpose of the pro town special roles is to catch mafia, taking a shot at lynching an unknown who is one or the other is worthwhile.

[Renata]

I'm really sorry about what happened last night, Diamondeye.

[Reenk Roink]

Yes. My actions aren't really private btw.

There are other mafia factions besides the turkish. Jolt and I are the toughest named pro town roles. Therefore you are either a pro town special role, in which case you can claim and be protected. Or a bad guy of some sort. And, if you don't claim, given that the purpose of the pro town special roles is to catch mafia, taking a shot at lynching an unknown who is one or the other is worthwhile.

You've got to be kidding me if you think you're going to pressure me to claim. :laugh4:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

You've got to be kidding me if you think you're going to pressure me to claim. :laugh4:

Why do you think I included the bit about lynching you if you don't claim :bounce:

[Reenk Roink]

Why do you think I included the bit about lynching you if you don't claim :bounce:

Um, my point exactly?

There's no reason for me to claim like Sigurd or Jolt. I obviously don't need protection. :laugh4:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Um, my point exactly?

There's no reason for me to claim like Sigurd or Jolt. I obviously don't need protection. :laugh4:

Should have said "why do you think I included that bit about lynching you even if you don't claim".

[Reenk Roink]

Your statement still means the same thing... :rolleyes:

btw who are the other Mafia factions? How do you know this, cause it's not up on the initial post. :inquisitive:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Your statement still means the same thing... :rolleyes:

btw who are the other Mafia factions? How do you know this, cause it's not up on the initial post. :inquisitive:

Most people seem to know about them.

Anyway, that was an argument for lynching you if you didn't claim. So you not claiming isn't a concern.

[Jolt]

Um, my point exactly?

There's no reason for me to claim like Sigurd or Jolt. I obviously don't need protection. :laugh4:

Unvote, Vote: Reenk Roink

You still need protection from lynching.

[TinCow]

Most people seem to know about them.

I don't. Enlighten me.

[Scienter]

Not actually true. Methos and his accomplices used crossbows to ambush Centurion. And I am pretty certain that Methos is not a Turkish spy.

Why?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I don't. Enlighten me.

See the discussion after ibn's post lynching comment.

[Seon]

Unvote. Vote: Reenk Roink

[Reenk Roink]

Most people seem to know about them.

Anyway, that was an argument for lynching you if you didn't claim. So you not claiming isn't a concern.

No they don't. And you seem so sure, despite the fact that your intelligence has failed you badly in just about every other decision.


You still need protection from lynching.

Unlike you, I really don't mind being lynched. It's better than cowardly accepting help from Sasaki and doing his dirty work which just seems to hurt the innocents. :beam:

[Ibn-Khaldun]

I personally would ask why Seon joins every bandwagon there is?

[TinCow]

See the discussion after ibn's post lynching comment.

The bit about ATPG's detective? From what I've heard, it would be improper to characterize that situation (if it is true) as another mafia faction. All indications I've seen are that it is side goal for some townies to add a bit of extra chaos to the game. Describing it as a second mafia faction sounds to me like fear-mongering.

Sasaki, why are you going after Reenk for fighting really well on his own when both you and Jolt did the same thing? Surely the same excuses the two of you have given could apply to him...

[Jolt]

Unlike you, I really don't mind being lynched. It's better than cowardly accepting help from Sasaki and doing his dirty work which just seems to hurt the innocents. :beam:

Notice when I was the target to be lynched, there was really no reason whatsoever. And I revealed once an accusation had been formed (Something more than "you survived an attack"). Before that, I too wasn't minding being lynched on the basis that everyone voting for me without any reason was gonna be suspected once my reveal results came up.
Further weighing in the options, everything I know so far of Sasaki, points out that he is Pro-Town and considering he saw my Role and saw that I was unable to be converted to the Mafia, the fact that he was willing to help me out says quite a lot about where his alliegances lie. You on the other hand, the only thing most people are aware of is that you are ordering vig kills on probable townies and surviving two attacks.
And what dirty work are you refering to that I'm helping Sasaki in? Do reveal that as I'm very curious.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

The bit about ATPG's detective? From what I've heard, it would be improper to characterize that situation (if it is true) as another mafia faction. All indications I've seen are that it is side goal for some townies to add a bit of extra chaos to the game. Describing it as a second mafia faction sounds to me like fear-mongering.

That's not what I hear. Besides, for our purposes the difference between "mafia faction" and "serial killer" is negligable. I was responding to reenk's implying he was innocent for accusing secura. Do you agree that he could still be anti-town? I would think so.


Sasaki, why are you going after Reenk for fighting really well on his own when both you and Jolt did the same thing? Surely the same excuses the two of you have given could apply to him...

Jolt fought with a halberd, like a sergeant. I fought with a sword like a warrior. Reenk fights with a different style, and claims to be superior in skill to both of us.

[Kagemusha]

People while i havent been constantly babbling here during the weekend. Discussion should not stop and what is this mindless bandwagon against Reenk? The reason for vote based on the thread is that Reenk seems stronger then Sasaki. How does that make Reenk even suspicious to begin. All the while people are happily ignoring the fact that Sasaki organizes a seemingly unbased vig hit against white_eyes, which goes sour. You people need to ask three questions from mr.Kojiro first before you vote anyone.

First why you are a cleared pro town role. Who says so? So far only people confirmed pro town are likes of me whom you happily bandwagoned to death. Second why white_eyes and why the last minute cancellation? And last and most important. What were you doing last night?

[Reenk Roink]

Just fyi, the reason I'm not revealing is that I've always been opposed to following the lead of others, especially when their methods don't have the same epistemic merit or empirical results of mine.


Notice when I was the target to be lynched, there was really no reason whatsoever...

Didn't read the thread about you fully, but I do remember you whining at the end. That's my impression. Also what "reason" is there to lynch me besides the fact that I'm 1337?


You on the other hand, the only thing most people are aware of is that you are ordering vig kills on probable townies and surviving two attacks.

Try to get your facts straight before making accusations. I asked for help to attack two people: Secura and Sigurd. Secura because I had a strong feeling on her. Sigurd because I analyzed exactly how the relationship between him Renata and Sasaki was, and found reasonable suspicion. And I still talked to Sasaki about Sigurd frequently, because a claim of 'tracker' (another role not mentioned) should still be treated with some consideration.

On the other hand, Sasaki attacked Chaotix, who not only being a confirmed townie, was trying to organize a vig group: http://www.quicktopic.com/44/H/dET43fekNYK

The reason? "Lurking" :rolleyes:

This after I had went to Sasaki on that night and suggested Secura to be vigged. :wall:


And what dirty work are you refering to that I'm helping Sasaki in? Do reveal that as I'm very curious.

Protecting Sigurd and being there as a arm when needed.


That's not what I hear. Besides, for our purposes the difference between "mafia faction" and "serial killer" is negligable. I was responding to reenk's implying he was innocent for accusing secura. Do you agree that he could still be anti-town? I would think so.

First off the difference between Mafia and SK is absolutely different. Actually the difference between SK and vig is much less so. You should know better than this, but it appears I've greatly overestimated what you should know. :beam:

Secondly, how did I imply I was innocent by attacking Secura? The only implication one should get from that is that my gut feeling is just a lot better than yours at finding Mafia (which is an self evident axiom by now :wink:). I guess you could make the case that I also tried to imply that I wasn't a Turk, but given that I am likely a drinker and use a sword instead of a spear type weapon or bow or scimitar like a Turk it's pretty obvious anyway... :rolleyes:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

The answers to those questions are all in the thread, you Hungarian stooge :)

You have a pouch of coins because you accepted a bribe to help assassinate someone, don't try and play high and mighty.

[Secura]

Despite the fact that I was the one who started the downfall of Secura?

Nice WIFOM.

[Seon]

The answers to those questions are all in the thread, you Hungarian stooge :)

You have a pouch of coins because you accepted a bribe to help assassinate someone, don't try and play high and mighty.

really?

[Reenk Roink]

Nice WIFOM.

You do know WIFOM is a myth right?


You have a pouch of coins because you accepted a bribe to help assassinate someone, don't try and play high and mighty.

Again, how the heck do you know this stuff? :inquisitive:

[Kagemusha]

The answers to those questions are all in the thread, you Hungarian stooge :)

You have a pouch of coins because you accepted a bribe to help assassinate someone, don't try and play high and mighty.

Sasaki thats just rich. Stop the wifom and answer the questions. For a such well known townie you should not have anything to hide or should you? If i look at the list of lynchee candidates you stick out like a sore thumb. You have been bandwagoning confirmed townies. Vigilante killing confirmed townies. Messing up vigilante hits and getting people killed by that. How else can anyone see you other then destructive force?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

On the other hand, Sasaki attacked Chaotix, who not only being a confirmed townie, was trying to organize a vig group: http://www.quicktopic.com/44/H/dET43fekNYK

The reason? "Lurking" :rolleyes:

Both of these are lies :beam:

Chaotix wasn't a confirmed townie, and was randomly vigging...and you are talking about me vigging townies. And the reason was that he was suspicious :yes:


First off the difference between Mafia and SK is absolutely different. Actually the difference between SK and vig is much less so. You should know better than this, but it appears I've greatly overestimated what you should know. :beam:

SK's should be eliminated at some point. Vigs should not. It's the difference between anti-town and pro-town :)


Secondly, how did I imply I was innocent by attacking Secura? The only implication one should get from that is that my gut feeling is just a lot better than yours at finding Mafia (which is an self evident axiom by now :wink:). I guess you could make the case that I also tried to imply that I wasn't a Turk, but given that I am likely a drinker and use a sword instead of a spear type weapon or bow or scimitar like a Turk it's pretty obvious anyway... :rolleyes:


Sasaki, I've been very considerate about keeping your activities quiet from the public and talking about them to you in private (despite the fact that your decisions have all sucked) and you vote for me because I got better skills than you and Jolt? :pleased: Despite the fact that I was the one who started the downfall of Secura? :inquisitive:


:juggle2:

[Reenk Roink]

Both of these are lies :beam:

Chaotix wasn't a confirmed townie, and was randomly vigging...and you are talking about me vigging townies. And the reason was that he was suspicious :yes:

First, a lie is deliberate misinformation. Saying misinformation is a lie is itself a lie if one is aware of the fact that he does not know whether the misinformation was deliberate. :wink:

Chaotix was post mortem confirmed as a townie.

He was vigging randomly which is stupid, yes. But even random.org > Sasaki's opinion. :beam: Also, his action of vigging means he was not a lurker.


SK's should be eliminated at some point. Vigs should not. It's the difference between anti-town and pro-town :)

Ofcourse. But they are still closer to vigs then mafia.


:juggle2:

I know what I said, and I actually gave you what you could imply from my post using the rules of logic and langauge. What you state I implied about innocence is actually not implied. :wink: Please answer that.

[Secura]

You do know WIFOM is a myth right?

You do know that the architect of my own downfall was me, right?

Keep wriggling, treacle... we've got a spot waiting over here by the fortress wall with your name on it.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Again, how the heck do you know this stuff? :inquisitive:

You shouldn't alternate between saying my intelligence is bad and saying I know things you don't know, it weakens your arguments :yes:


Sasaki thats just rich. Stop the wifom and answer the questions. For a such well known townie you should not have anything to hide or should you? If i look at the list of lynchee candidates you stick out like a sore thumb. You have been bandwagoning confirmed townies. Vigilante killing confirmed townies. Messing up vigilante hits and getting people killed by that. How else can anyone see you other then destructive force?

I said why I thought WE was suspicious yesterday. DE posted about why the vig hit was canceled (pizza told me that WE was innocent). If you read the writeup it's obvious that I killed Thermal.

You've said too many times that you're in favor of vig groups kage. And there is the matter of the Hungarian coins :book:

[Reenk Roink]

You do know that the architect of my own downfall was me, right?

Keep wriggling, treacle... we've got a spot waiting over here by the fortress wall with your name on it.

True, but I really should have killed you at night. You got lucky or the Turks are overpowered... :shrug:

What's a treacle? :huh:


You shouldn't alternate between saying my intelligence is bad and saying I know things you don't know, it weakens your arguments :yes:

I should because you've just equivocated intelligence with knowledge. :laugh4: You having knowledge of "bribes" just makes you more suspicious, not more intelligent. :beam:

[Secura]

Vigilante killing confirmed townies. Messing up vigilante hits and getting people killed by that.

What's humourous is that you were firmly advocating vigilante hits earlier in the game, and now you're pointing a cold dead finger at someone who has been doing just that.

You should decide which side your bread is buttered.

[Secura]

True, but I really should have killed you at night. You got lucky or the Turks are overpowered... :shrug:

This would imply, then, that you have a powerful role, if you believe you can kill one-on-one.

I wouldn't say that we're overpowered, but I would say that we're capable of defending ourselves from all but the most significant threats. I don't think luck came into it.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

First, a lie is deliberate misinformation. Saying misinformation is a lie is itself a lie if one is aware of the fact that he does not know whether the misinformation was deliberate. :wink:

Chaotix was post mortem confirmed as a townie.

Exactly, post mortem. He was not a confirmed townie at the time. There is a difference between vigging an unknown who turns out to be townie and vigging an already confirmed townie.



He was vigging randomly which is stupid, yes. But even random.org > Sasaki's opinion. :beam: Also, his action of vigging means he was not a lurker.


I just random.org'd, and your number came up. Also, lurking refers to in thread behavior, not out of thread.


Ofcourse. But they are still closer to vigs then mafia.

Whether they are closer is irrelevant.


I know what I said, and I actually gave you what you could imply from my post using the rules of logic and langauge. What you state I implied about innocence is actually not implied. :wink: Please answer that.

But you were wrong about what was implied.

1) people are voted for being suspicious (that is the implication if you vote someone)
2) If someone is voted despite something, then that something is implied to be an argument in favor of their innocence.

e.g. "you are voting for me, despite my being cleared by a detective result"

[Beskar]

On the other hand, Sasaki attacked Chaotix, who not only being a confirmed townie, was trying to organize a vig group: http://www.quicktopic.com/44/H/dET43fekNYK


What I find interesting is how you faked that by typing the username the same as my account name, but it is not my account as it would otherwise have a little star on it like the one next to the chaotix name. Split and ACIN probably faked users too.

[Reenk Roink]

This would imply, then, that you have a powerful role, if you believe you can kill one-on-one.

I wouldn't say that we're overpowered, but I would say that we're capable of defending ourselves from all but the most significant threats. I don't think luck came into it.

Well that cat was already out of the bag as I simply RAWKED these 4 guys last night (though one of them miraculously survived) and then made a fifth one run like a wussy. :shrug:

Agreed that you are capable of defending yourselves, but still, from the write up it seemed that I was simply deterred due to the fact of getting caught/having your spy friends show up. That was unfortunate for me. :sad:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I should because you've just equivocated intelligence with knowledge. :laugh4: You having knowledge of "bribes" just makes you more suspicious, not more intelligent. :beam:

You are equivocating on "intelligence" :yes:

We are not talking about human intelligence, but information. Do you think the central intelligence agency is where all the IQ tests are written? :beam:

[Reenk Roink]

Exactly, post mortem. He was not a confirmed townie at the time. There is a difference between vigging an unknown who turns out to be townie and vigging an already confirmed townie.

You said Chaotix being a confirmed townie was a lie. He is. So you are wrong here.

It doesn't matter if he wasn't confirmed before (especially given that I scolded you about killing him before his post mortem). :stare:

Secura wasn't (still isn't) a confirmed Turk, but obviously lynching/vigging her was a much better idea than Chaotix and "lurking" (which he wasn't doing).


I just random.org'd, and your number came up. Also, lurking refers to in thread behavior, not out of thread.

Nonsense, lurking refers to a wide variety of behaviors. Also, like I've mentioned early in the game, killing lurkers is a terrible idea - see Seamus and Chaotix.


What I find interesting is how you faked that by typing the username the same as my account name, but it is not my account as it would otherwise have a little star on it like the one next to the chaotix name. Split and ACIN probably faked users too.

:laugh4: :rolleyes:


Whether they are closer is irrelevant.

Not in the context of our discussion.

But you were wrong about what was implied.

It is pretty tough to accuse someone of being wrong of what they themselves imply. :laugh4:


1) people are voted for being suspicious (that is the implication if you vote someone)

Nonsense. People are voted for a multitude of reasons. Boredom, being confirmed as Mafia, being a townie (Mafia vote), laziness (bandwagonning). And so on.


2) If someone is voted despite something, then that something is implied to be an argument in favor of their innocence.

e.g. "you are voting for me, despite my being cleared by a detective result"

What set of inferences allow you to state such a claim? You must have some weird conditional axioms you hold as sound to be able to use modus ponens and thus justify these statements... :inquisitive:

[Methos]

Couldn't kill you, so might as well try lynching you. Vote: Reenk.

[Reenk Roink]

You are equivocating on "intelligence" :yes:

We are not talking about human intelligence, but information. Do you think the central intelligence agency is where all the IQ tests are written? :beam:

No, I am just being broad with the term. Sloppy, true, but not an equivocation like you did with knowledge and substituting it with me challenging your decisions.

We are indeed talking about human intelligence, because information is value neutral until some intelligence (being broad again) is applied to it to make sense of it. Without the interpretation of the results, the results are useless.

[Secura]

Well that cat was already out of the bag as I simply RAWKED these 4 guys last night (though one of them miraculously survived) and then made a fifth one run like a wussy. :shrug:

Surely, then, with that sort of power you're a potential threat to the town?


Agreed that you are capable of defending yourselves, but still, from the write up it seemed that I was simply deterred due to the fact of getting caught/having your spy friends show up. That was unfortunate for me. :sad:

My spy buddies were off elsewhere, and as CR stated earlier, all the night events happen somewhat simultaneously. I believe it was guards that were turning up, which makes it very odd as to why you ran away from them :P

[Subotan]

So Methos, why is RR expected to answer these imaginary "questions" you have, whilst any concerns that we have about you (I.e. Who were the other members of your group and why did you attempt to vig RR) are magically vanished away?

[Reenk Roink]

Surely, then, with that sort of power you're a potential threat to the town?

Of course not. With that sort of power I am a savior. :pleased:


My spy buddies were off elsewhere, and as CR stated earlier, all the night events happen somewhat simultaneously. I believe it was guards that were turning up, which makes it very odd as to why you ran away from them :P

Well, knowing the guards, they would probably want to question me, and I got these wenches back in my cabin that need attention and I really can't delay, but I didn't want to beat them up either so... :shrug:

[Methos]

So Methos, why is RR expected to answer these imaginary "questions" you have, whilst any concerns that we have about you (I.e. Who were the other members of your group and why did you attempt to vig RR) are magically vanished away?

First off, Reenk contacted me. Secondly, you sure seem to want me to publicly admit who my teammates are, which seems very scummy to me.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

You said Chaotix being a confirmed townie was a lie. He is. So you are wrong here.

I don't think you are using "being" correctly Reenk. It has a pretty clear implication <--argue about this again


It doesn't matter if he wasn't confirmed before (especially given that I scolded you about killing him before his post mortem). :stare:

But we are not discussing being right and wrong. This isn't "who is catching more mafia" this is "who is more likely to be mafia". Vigging someone who turns out to be innocent may be a bad decision, vigging someone who is known to be innocent is suspicious. Don't confuse the two.


Nonsense, lurking refers to a wide variety of behaviors. Also, like I've mentioned early in the game, killing lurkers is a terrible idea - see Seamus and Chaotix.

Surely I know what I implied by "lurking" Reenk :beam:


Not in the context of our discussion.

Yes it is. The context of our discussion is you being lynched. Whether serial killers are more dangerous than mafia is not relevant to the current discussion, since they should both be lynched. It would only become relevant were a mafioso to be found.


It is pretty tough to accuse someone of being wrong of what they themselves imply. :laugh4:

No, it's easy.


Nonsense. People are voted for a multitude of reasons. Boredom, being confirmed as Mafia, being a townie (Mafia vote), laziness (bandwagonning). And so on.

You think when I voted you I wasn't implying that you were suspicious? I gave reasons for suspecting you prior to the vote. It is fairly obvious that I was voting you for that reason.


What set of inferences allow you to state such a claim? You must have some weird conditional axioms you hold as sound to be able to use modus ponens and thus justify these statements... :inquisitive:

We can put the argument in formal logical form if you really want :stare:

But it sounds more like you are trying to deny the way the English language is used. Do you disagree with my example, for starters?

[Subotan]

Great, so instead of looking for a mafioso, we're stuck in a debate about the Philosophy of Language. Weeeeee

[Subotan]

First off, Reenk contacted me. Secondly, you sure seem to want me to publicly admit who my teammates are, which seems very scummy to me.
I guess everybody who has contacted me since the beginning of the game is now scummy too :rolleyes:
And you're very quick to accuse somebody who has a different opinion to you of being mafioso.

[Kagemusha]

You shouldn't alternate between saying my intelligence is bad and saying I know things you don't know, it weakens your arguments :yes:



I said why I thought WE was suspicious yesterday. DE posted about why the vig hit was canceled (pizza told me that WE was innocent). If you read the writeup it's obvious that I killed Thermal.

You've said too many times that you're in favor of vig groups kage. And there is the matter of the Hungarian coins :book:

I have nothing still against vigilante groups. In matter of fact i know a perfect target for one also. Now maybe you should share to the rest of us why you killed Thermal Mercury, what was the motivation behind it. The fact that you agree in a plausible strategy to beat mafia does nothing to prove you are pro town. In matter of fact you seem to be using vig hits to hit possible pro town people and people that simply doesnt seem dangerous to you. That sounds awfully like mafia strategy. Also if you are declaring that you are so much on the top of your game, how come you couldnt coordinate a simple vig attack without getting a participant of the group killed? Also i would still like to hear your logic behind claiming yourself as confirmed pro town?

About the coins. I have news for you. I didnt even myself know i had any coins. Maybe you should focus instead about what my inspection revealed before it mentioned any coins? See there is the closest thing to proof you get in this game about innocence and you and i both know that you dont have anything to proove you are pro town, other then your own constant claiming that you are.

Which in the end is quite proven strategy as some great minds have said that when you repeat a lie over and over, some start to think that makes it truth.:book:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

No, I am just being broad with the term. Sloppy, true, but not an equivocation like you did with knowledge and substituting it with me challenging your decisions.

We are indeed talking about human intelligence, because information is value neutral until some intelligence (being broad again) is applied to it to make sense of it. Without the interpretation of the results, the results are useless.

The phrase "my intelligence is bad" does not refer to human intelligence Reenk. It refers to information. If the US bombs a village and the terrorist is not there, one might say that their intelligence was bad, for example.

****************

If you don't want to read the argument, Reenk is saying that he has a very powerful role that isn't warrior or sergeant, but he won't say what it is. He is also trying to argue that Serial Killers are a lot like vigs really, and not much like mafia. Most of the text is taken up with him talking about who is better at catching mafia and word uses, which is an attempt at distraction :yes:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I have nothing still against vigilante groups. In matter of fact i know a perfect target for one also. Now maybe you should share to the rest of us why you killed Thermal Mercury, what was the motivation behind it.

On short notice I remembered that when I asked him about joining me for a night action he said he was open to it but might be involved with another group. This is what you and several other people have said to me as mafia when I pm'd you in games like this.


Also if you are declaring that you are so much on the top of your game, how come you couldnt coordinate a simple vig attack without getting a participant of the group killed? Also i would still like to hear your logic behind claiming yourself as confirmed pro town?

Where did I say I was at the top of my game? Pizza waited until the last minute to pm me with new info. My logic behind claiming myself as pro town is that I look like a warrior in the writeup, and have demonstrated knowledge of the warrior pm. I don't think I've claimed proof.


About the coins. I have news for you. I didnt even myself i had any coins. Maybe you should focus instead about what my inspection revealed before it mentioned any coins?

Who knows? I received an offer of money in exchange for helping an unnamed party kill someone, it seems like you received it as well and accepted it. Why else would you have foreign coins? There are other possible explanations it's true.


Which in the end is quite proven strategy as some great minds have said that when you repeat a lie over and over, some start to think that makes it truth.:book:

Yes, this is what you said you were going to do by constantly saying I was guilty.

[Reenk Roink]

I don't think you are using "being" correctly Reenk. It has a pretty clear implication <--argue about this again

Don't understand the entire sentence, seems a bit incoherent. How was "being" not used correctly? Please elaborate.


But we are not discussing being right and wrong. This isn't "who is catching more mafia" this is "who is more likely to be mafia". Vigging someone who turns out to be innocent may be a bad decision, vigging someone who is known to be innocent is suspicious. Don't confuse the two.

Yes we are! :stare:

I'm not confusing the two. And yes this is about who is catching more mafia. If you wish to broaden the discussion about who is more likely to be mafia, we certainly can (always wanted to end the idea of lurkers being scummy), but it is not the debate I started.


Surely I know what I implied by "lurking" Reenk :beam:

Yes, even you probably did know what you implied, but then again, unlike you, I'm not arguing that you implied something you didn't actually imply. :beam:

I'm arguing that Chaotix wasn't lurking. :yes: (not to mention arguing that lynching vigging lurkers is a bad idea)


Yes it is. The context of our discussion is you being lynched. Whether serial killers are more dangerous than mafia is not relevant to the current discussion, since they should both be lynched. It would only become relevant were a mafioso to be found.

You now seem to be trying to constrict the discussion into the particular situation, but your intitial claims were interpreted as general Mafia strategies. So the discussion is completely relevant. :yes:


You think when I voted you I wasn't implying that you were suspicious? I gave reasons for suspecting you prior to the vote. It is fairly obvious that I was voting you for that reason.

Again, you are seemingly trying to stick within the context of this situation to try and give justification for your methods and ideas about Mafia games in general. It is irrelevant what your reason was for voting for me when we talk about the motivation for why people vote in the first place.


We can put the argument in formal logical form if you really want :stare:

Probably the best idea now. :shrug: I need to know your background assumptions to try and understand your argument. Right now, I'm basically inferring them from your posts and previous play but then you can always sidestep some issues. Formalizing them would be a much better idea of deciding the issue then just using the vagueness of natural language.


But it sounds more like you are trying to deny the way the English language is used. Do you disagree with my example, for starters?

Actually the english language itself does not concern the issue. A more accurate statement might have been that I was trying to "deny" the way logical inferences work.

The fact is, me making a note that I voted for Secura should not have implied at all whatsoever that I was innocent, as you falsely attribute to me. I had already conceded that it could be REASONABLY been taken to imply I was not a Turk.

Innocence and non-Turkishness are not mutually exclusive (although I still have seen no good reason for another Mafia family from you.

Subotan: we argue about this because the entire reason I'm being voted for is because I survived a lot of attacks and won't claim my role. That's been established, and we're just screwing around now. :laugh4:

[Ibn-Khaldun]

I think Kagemusha had a role where he had to kill me. So, he was not mafia. He could've been pro-town after he had managed to kill me considering how strong I was.
Or .. considering how strong Reenk is.. perhaps he was there to kill me? Anyway, I doubt Reenk is mafia or part of "anti-town faction".
You people should find a better suspect.

[Kagemusha]

On short notice I remembered that when I asked him about joining me for a night action he said he was open to it but might be involved with another group. This is what you and several other people have said to me as mafia when I pm'd you in games like this.

And the motivation to set up white_eyes for a vig kill?




I don't think I've claimed proof.

"Jolt and I are the toughest named pro town roles." -Sasaki Kojiro



Who knows? I received an offer of money in exchange for helping an unnamed party kill someone, it seems like you received it as well and accepted it. Why else would you have foreign coins? There are other possible explanations it's true.

There is one tiny hole in your theory. Remeber when i died? Day one. So i didnt have time to receive anything. So why are you so agressively trying to discriminate me just because i want to ask you questions?




Yes, this is what you said you were going to do by constantly saying I was guilty.

I can assure you thats not the case here.

[Reenk Roink]

The phrase "my intelligence is bad" does not refer to human intelligence Reenk. It refers to information. If the US bombs a village and the terrorist is not there, one might say that their intelligence was bad, for example.

Please don't shift the parameters of the discussion (it seems that with you it must be formalized).

Let's go through this again:

I made many attacks against your decisions in this game and ideas about Mafia strategy in general because they sucked. Agreed?

Then I asked how you know certain information about bribes. I did this as a request for information and a rhetorical attempt to make you look bad and less credible.

You replied: "You shouldn't alternate between saying my intelligence is bad and saying I know things you don't know, it weakens your arguments"

Now, if you meant the word "intelligence" to mean your own aptitude (as you put it 'IQ' - though IQ is a very bad method at judging intelligence), then I was correct in calling you out for equivication of your knowledge of certain matters and your intelligence.

If you meant the word "intelligence" to mean information, then your assertion of me stating your intelligence was bad was simply a false one and no further comment is need. Heck it could have been a lie. :beam:

*********

Essentially, Sasaki tries to argue in the most slimy of manners and make his opponents trip up and look more scummy. Many of his posts and PMs are designed for this effect. However, it is fairly easy to catch him on it if you have the time and desire. :yes:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

So you want to talk about mafia theory, rather than about whether or not you should be lynched. Ok. Don't think you have much ground to stand on there? :beam:

In mafia, you should be wrong in your accusations more often than you are right. Yeah yeah, it would be nice to be right all the time. But this is reality, if you aren't wrong a lot you aren't accusing enough people. Second, besides accusing people, you have to get other people to vote for them. This means including things that aren't particularly logical. Unsound even. Commonly you describe something that's merely a probability and a definite sign of being mafia. So, in essence, all the complaints about me vigging people who turn out to be townies, and about my reasoning being that they were "lurking" aren't very damning.


How was "being" not used correctly? Please elaborate.

In common usage you might say something like "being thirsty, I decided to get a drink of water". That means that when you decided to get a drink of water, you were thirsty. It doesn't mean that you got a drink of water and later it turned out that you were thirsty.


The fact is, me making a note that I voted for Secura should not have implied at all whatsoever that I was innocent, as you falsely attribute to me. I had already conceded that it could be REASONABLY been taken to imply I was not a Turk.

Innocence and non-Turkishness are not mutually exclusive (although I still have seen no good reason for another Mafia family from you.

You're on a need to know basis :beam:

In any case. If you are implying that saying "I'm not a turk" is not implying that you are innocent, then you are arguing that there are multiple mafia groups.

Regardless of what it means logically, it makes it appear as if you are innocent, in a weasely sort of way :stare:

(just as describing what you did as "weasely" implies that you are suspicious. But can you show logically that weasels are suspicious? I thought you weren't big on logic...)

[Sasaki Kojiro]

And the motivation to set up white_eyes for a vig kill?

I already stated my reasons for thinking he's suspicious in the thread.


"Jolt and I are the toughest named pro town roles." -Sasaki Kojiro

I assume my innocence when making certain arguments.


There is one tiny hole in your theory. Remeber when i died? Day one. So i didnt have time to receive anything. So why are you so agressively trying to discriminate me just because i want to ask you questions?


Didn't we no lynch day 1?


I can assure you thats not the case here.

It obviously is :yes:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Please don't shift the parameters of the discussion (it seems that with you it must be formalized).

Let's go through this again:

I made many attacks against your decisions in this game and ideas about Mafia strategy in general because they sucked. Agreed?

Then I asked how you know certain information about bribes. I did this as a request for information and a rhetorical attempt to make you look bad and less credible.

You replied: "You shouldn't alternate between saying my intelligence is bad and saying I know things you don't know, it weakens your arguments"

Now, if you meant the word "intelligence" to mean your own aptitude (as you put it 'IQ' - though IQ is a very bad method at judging intelligence), then I was correct in calling you out for equivication of your knowledge of certain matters and your intelligence.

If you meant the word "intelligence" to mean information, then your assertion of me stating your intelligence was bad was simply a false one and no further comment is need. Heck it could have been a lie. :beam:

*********

When I spoke of knowing about other mafia groups, you said:


No they don't. And you seem so sure, despite the fact that your intelligence has failed you badly in just about every other decision.

This is using intelligence as "information".



Essentially, Sasaki tries to argue in the most slimy of manners and make his opponents trip up and look more scummy. Many of his posts and PMs are designed for this effect. However, it is fairly easy to catch him on it if you have the time and desire. :yes:

This argument started because I accused you of doing this, with your "voting for me...despite me getting secura lynched" statement :yes:

And as you say "I did this as a request for information and a rhetorical attempt to make you look bad and less credible." You do the same thing you are accusing me of here.

This argument is very much like when TinCow accused you of attacking Secura.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

*reserved for further oral vomiting*

[Secura]

Didn't we no lynch day 1?

Yup, we did, that's why CR stated that no lynch/abstaining would be frowned upon in the second day phase, otherwise that trend could have continued for a while.


Lynched:
Kagemusha D2
Secura D3
Ibn-Khaldun D4

[Reenk Roink]

So you want to talk about mafia theory, rather than about whether or not you should be lynched. Ok. Don't think you have much ground to stand on there? :beam:

Of course we must go back to theory when deciding who to lynch. It's the central factor in the decision. :rolleyes:

The argument for whether I should be lynched has already been made. It sucks, as it is based on the idea that an unknown role that is powerful might as well be lynched. :shrug: Nothing more for me to say against that except to hope that people aren't that foolish to buy it.


In mafia, you should be wrong in your accusations more often than you are right.

Whoa whoa whoa (this is what I mean about some of your background assumptions you bring to the game by the way). This is absolute crap by the way.


Yeah yeah, it would be nice to be right all the time. But this is reality, if you aren't wrong a lot you aren't accusing enough people. Second, besides accusing people, you have to get other people to vote for them. This means including things that aren't particularly logical. Unsound even. Commonly you describe something that's merely a probability and a definite sign of being mafia. So, in essence, all the complaints about me vigging people who turn out to be townies, and about my reasoning being that they were "lurking" aren't very damning.

First you seem to forget (or write in such a manner that suggests to others that you forgot) that I am not accusing you of being Mafia. Just accusing you of not being particularity good at catching Mafia (especially in early game - you have a certain clutch factor at times, but it sometimes doesn't justify the crapping of the bed for most of the game).

Thus I am using your poor record and bad ideas to dissuade people from listening to you.


In common usage you might say something like "being thirsty, I decided to get a drink of water". That means that when you decided to get a drink of water, you were thirsty. It doesn't mean that you got a drink of water and later it turned out that you were thirsty.

This doesn't follow from the initial point of Chaotix being a confirmed townie which you claimed was a lie and then tried to weasel out of by saying "but he wasn't confirmed at the time I killed him!" which doesn't change the fact that he was a confirmed townie that you killed, meaning yet another decision you were wrong about. :beam:


In any case. If you are implying that saying "I'm not a turk" is not implying that you are innocent, then you are arguing that there are multiple mafia groups.

No... There are many other possibilities. :wall: Vig, SK come to mind.


Regardless of what it means logically, it makes it appear as if you are innocent, in a weasely sort of way :stare:

:beam: I gotta agree with this and it was my motivation when I said it. :pleased:


(just as describing what you did as "weasely" implies that you are suspicious. But can you show logically that weasels are suspicious? I thought you weren't big on logic...)

Weasels being suspicious have nothing to do with the discussion so I won't show it logically.

Regardless of my personal stance on logic (which you seem not to know much about), a lot of other people are awed by logic, so it's good to know to convince them. Do you agree? :beam:

[Reenk Roink]

When I spoke of knowing about other mafia groups, you said:

This is using intelligence as "information".

Err, no. If it was, I wouldn't link the intelligence to your decisions and then proceed to think your entire usuage of intelligence was not meaning information...


This argument started because I accused you of doing this, with your "voting for me...despite me getting secura lynched" statement :yes:

And as you say "I did this as a request for information and a rhetorical attempt to make you look bad and less credible." You do the same thing you are accusing me of here.

Of course I am and I don't deny it. You got 4 other votes because of it, it's working. :yes:

(nice try at making me look like a hypocrite though, have a brownie :smash:)

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Once you admit to using rhetoric to persuade people, your arguments can be dismissed on that basis, as they should be. I often do the same and you are welcome to dismiss it.

As you say, the reason you are being lynched is for having a powerful role that you refuse to claim. The rest of this argument is merely to save yourself.

Since I know many of the powerful pro town roles, I am comfortable playing the odds on this one. Cold hard math reenk. Rage against the machine :beam:


Whoa whoa whoa (this is what I mean about some of your background assumptions you bring to the game by the way). This is absolute crap by the way.

You can't make an omelet without breaking eggs.

[Kagemusha]

I already stated my reasons for thinking he's suspicious in the thread.

So basically you reserve the right to kill anyone you seem suspicious, while you yourself cant be accused of anything as it is suspicious in itself. Quite the logic there.



I assume my innocence when making certain arguments.

I assume that you are making an effort to look like innocent just because you are trying to hide yourself amongst the innocent.



Didn't we no lynch day 1?

Im sorry i guess ive mixed up day one with day two. Im sure thats something scum would do.




It obviously is :yes:

No it is not and hopefully sooner rather then later we all can find out what you really are.

[Secura]

Just curious Reenk... who do you want people to listen to if not Sasaki?

You should take a look at the post count:

Sasaki: 171
Secura: 122
Pizza: 102
Kagemusha:86
Thermal: 72

There's no other player who seems to have invested as much into this game than Sasaki. So who else does the town follow?

[Kagemusha]

Just curious Reenk... who do you want people to listen to if not Sasaki?

You should take a look at the post count:


There's no other player who seems to have invested as much into this game than Sasaki. So who else does the town follow?

And why are you anxious to declare your support to Sasaki? Thats the one point which could suggest he might be innocent as you are confessed mafia.Unless its a wifom.

[Secura]

And why are you anxious to declare your support to Sasaki? Thats the one point which could suggest he might be innocent as you are confessed mafia.Unless its a wifom.

And why are you anxious to oppose him, hmm?

Whether I am mafia or town, I like to see discussion and people posting alot; Sasaki has posted nearly fifty percent more posts than the next person. I enjoy reading what he has to say, that is all.

[Kagemusha]

And why are you anxious to oppose him, hmm?

Could be that im town while you mafia?:painting:

[Reenk Roink]

Once you admit to using rhetoric to persuade people, your arguments can be dismissed on that basis, as they should be. I often do the same and you are welcome to dismiss it.

Why can something stated with rhetoric be dismissed "on that basis"? What does that even mean? Rhetoric is the way you persuade people... :yes: Not logic, or bayesian analysis, or whatever (they are used in rhetoric). It's rhetoric.


As you say, the reason you are being lynched is for having a powerful role that you refuse to claim. The rest of this argument is merely to save yourself.

Since I know many of the powerful pro town roles, I am comfortable playing the odds on this one. Cold hard math reenk. Rage against the machine :beam:

Firstly, I doubt if I just reveal my role it will lead to my salvation.

The rest of this argument is actually more geared towards destroying peoples' trust in you. I think it's working. If I have to get lynched along the way, so be it. :bow:


You can't make an omelet without breaking eggs.

Yeah you can, many ways to extract the yolk while keeping the shell intact.

But you can lynch a Mafia without vigging/killing innocents.

And in your case, there's not been a Mafia nor an omelet for us. :sad:


There's no other player who seems to have invested as much into this game than Sasaki. So who else does the town follow?

Plenty of 4th line checkers tried so much harder, and gave more effort than Mario Lemieux ever did. Who would you want on your team?

(point being effort does not equate with success)

[Diamondeye]

I'm really sorry about what happened last night, Diamondeye.

Apology accepted. Accidents happen.
I'll get my revenge later.


People while i havent been constantly babbling here during the weekend. Discussion should not stop and what is this mindless bandwagon against Reenk? The reason for vote based on the thread is that Reenk seems stronger then Sasaki. How does that make Reenk even suspicious to begin. All the while people are happily ignoring the fact that Sasaki organizes a seemingly unbased vig hit against white_eyes, which goes sour. You people need to ask three questions from mr.Kojiro first before you vote anyone.

First why you are a cleared pro town role. Who says so? So far only people confirmed pro town are likes of me whom you happily bandwagoned to death. Second why white_eyes and why the last minute cancellation? And last and most important. What were you doing last night?


Sasaki thats just rich. Stop the wifom and answer the questions. For a such well known townie you should not have anything to hide or should you? If i look at the list of lynchee candidates you stick out like a sore thumb. You have been bandwagoning confirmed townies. Vigilante killing confirmed townies. Messing up vigilante hits and getting people killed by that. How else can anyone see you other then destructive force?


And why are you anxious to declare your support to Sasaki? Thats the one point which could suggest he might be innocent as you are confessed mafia.Unless its a wifom.

I hate to take on the aggressive tone, but almost everything you've said in this thread is just plain stupid. I know my name is not cleared by a post-mortem clarification yet, but I'm going to go ahead and state something as if I am a confirmed innocent;

I have forgiven Sasaki for his mistake in the vigilante killing of WE that went wrong. For what it's worth, Sasaki even informed me and Yaseikhaan that he was cancelling the attack. Why he would do that if it was an elaborate setup has me puzzled.
If there was one person in this game (who wasn't already confirmed as innocent to my person) that I should judge as innocent, it'd be Sasaki Kojiro.

If there was one person in this game (who isn't dead) that I'd say was mafia, it'd be Reenk Roink.

For what it's worth I am going to ask all the people I worked with and who (to some extent) trust me to trust Sasaki in this. I am sure that he's onto a villain (RR) and that he's found another villain to vigilante kill. Help him with this. Protect him if you aren't part of his vig squad.

[Yaropolk]

If you want to talk about being an efficient mafia killer, I'd like to point out I'm the only one was attacked and killed one of the turks. So I think I'll Vote: Reenk. Actions speak louder than words, so claim up or face the gallows.

[Kagemusha]

I hate to take on the aggressive tone, but almost everything you've said in this thread is just plain stupid. I know my name is not cleared by a post-mortem clarification yet, but I'm going to go ahead and state something as if I am a confirmed innocent;

I have forgiven Sasaki for his mistake in the vigilante killing of WE that went wrong. For what it's worth, Sasaki even informed me and Yaseikhaan that he was cancelling the attack. Why he would do that if it was an elaborate setup has me puzzled.
If there was one person in this game (who wasn't already confirmed as innocent to my person) that I should judge as innocent, it'd be Sasaki Kojiro.

If there was one person in this game (who isn't dead) that I'd say was mafia, it'd be Reenk Roink.

For what it's worth I am going to ask all the people I worked with and who (to some extent) trust me to trust Sasaki in this. I am sure that he's onto a villain (RR) and that he's found another villain to vigilante kill. Help him with this. Protect him if you aren't part of his vig squad.

Ofcourse everybody is entitled to their opinions, but i would like to hear how you define "stupid" opinions about situations no one can be sure off? I could understand incorrect or false, but "stupid" strikes bit strange, but maybe i just cant understand the logic this statement is based upon.

[Reenk Roink]

If you want to talk about being an efficient mafia killer, I'd like to point out I'm the only one was attacked and killed one of the turks. So I think I'll Vote: Reenk. Actions speak louder than words, so claim up or face the gallows.

Yes, you got attacked by a Turk and he happened to kill himself. Feel proud. ~:grouphug: Much different from trying to kill someone and then pushing for their lynch.

Not claiming. Let the post mortems do the talking.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Why can something stated with rhetoric be dismissed "on that basis"? What does that even mean? Rhetoric is the way you persuade people... :yes: Not logic, or bayesian analysis, or whatever (they are used in rhetoric). It's rhetoric.

But if you say that something is just rhetoric people are less likely to be persuaded by it.


Firstly, I doubt if I just reveal my role it will lead to my salvation.

I wonder why :beam:


The rest of this argument is actually more geared towards destroying peoples' trust in you. I think it's working. If I have to get lynched along the way, so be it. :bow:

I don't think I am trusted. I haven't put forward good evidence on someone all game anyway. If people have gone along with my arguments it's because they can't be bothered to do much else, not because they think I'm a super mafia finding genius. If anything I've been shown to be wrong more than anyone else here, because I break more eggs.



Yeah you can, many ways to extract the yolk while keeping the shell intact.

But you can lynch a Mafia without vigging/killing innocents.

And in your case, there's not been a Mafia nor an omelet for us. :sad:


This is too much like the no lynch argument. There are times when killing innocents leads to more success than not killing them. In most games this is true. In the end I find if you don't latch on stubbornly despite arguments or lack of evidence, the mafia are more likely to slip out of your grasp.

[Secura]

Could be that im town while you mafia?:painting:

I'm defending Sasaki's reasoning based upon his contribution to the game as a fellow player; it has nothing to do with the fact I'm mafia or town or Jewish or Iranian or Martian or anything else. I simply don't see why people should suddenly begin to ignore the contributions of Sasaki based on the results of vigilante kills which you advocated!


Yeah you can, many ways to extract the yolk while keeping the shell intact.

It's funny that you say that because when you lynched me a few rounds back, you also stated that you cannot make an omelette without breaking eggs. Make your mind up, chef! :P

Also, in relation to Yaropolk's post, I should add that the reason AVSM died is because he sent in an incorrect order PM and missed CR's warning about it. Since his orders did not correlate with his partner, they did not attack together and Yaropolk survived. He would not have done so had the orders been correct. :3

[Reenk Roink]

People aren't going to believe my role reveal because it seems too weak for what I did. :beam: Also, you got Yaropolk on the bandwagon now, you know what it takes for him to vote for someone. :rolleyes:

Essentially I fit a pattern of behavior that a portion of the players here think is scummy - read not cooperating. A lot of the players don't, but they don't seem to have a better idea anyway. But I've been lynched for my behavior a ton of times before (though it doesn't happen recently as much), and I can take another one. I'm not Mafia anyway. :beam:


But if you say that something is just rhetoric people are less likely to be persuaded by it.

Why?


This is too much like the no lynch argument. There are times when killing innocents leads to more success than not killing them. In most games this is true. In the end I find if you don't latch on stubbornly despite arguments or lack of evidence, the mafia are more likely to slip out of your grasp.

No lynching is a decent strategy in this game rather than just someone each round. This game above most others should have more evidence considered before lynching people. Why? This is because the Mafia have not been able to kill very often, as we can obviously see by the ratio of vig/lynch deaths to Mafia kills.

A conservative approach is better in this game.


It's funny that you say that because when you lynched me a few rounds back, you also stated that you cannot make an omelette without breaking eggs. Make your mind up, chef! :P

You misunderstand. That quote was said by Sasaki in private when I criticized him for the Chaotix kill. I think you can (as my statement "Yeah I can" should hint to).

[Kagemusha]

I'm defending Sasaki's reasoning based upon his contribution to the game as a fellow player; it has nothing to do with the fact I'm mafia or town or Jewish or Iranian or Martian or anything else. I simply don't see why people should suddenly begin to ignore the contributions of Sasaki based on the results of vigilante kills which you advocated!

If you read few posts back you can see that im still advocating vigilante killings. What i cant understand is why you take such offense for questioning Sasaki and his motives? Because he posts the most, his intentions should not be questioned?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

People aren't going to believe my role reveal because it seems too weak for what I did. :beam: Also, you got Yaropolk on the bandwagon now, you know what it takes for him to vote for someone. :rolleyes:

Essentially I fit a pattern of behavior that a portion of the players here think is scummy - read not cooperating. A lot of the players don't, but they don't seem to have a better idea anyway. But I've been lynched for my behavior a ton of times before (though it doesn't happen recently as much), and I can take another one. I'm not Mafia anyway. :beam:

No claim is always scummier than claim, even of an unlikely role. Unless you do it really badly.

I don't think uncooperative is particularly scummy.


No lynching is a decent strategy in this game rather than just someone each round. This game above most others should have more evidence considered before lynching people. Why? This is because the Mafia have not been able to kill very often, as we can obviously see by the ratio of vig/lynch deaths to Mafia kills.

A conservative approach is better in this game.

A slower game means more time for the mafia to recruit. If we'd taken the slow approach in pirate ship the English mafia would have hit 7 members really quickly. Remember, chaotix was a potential recruit and a potential lynch --> potential extra night for mafia to recruit or kill.

[Secura]

If you read few posts back you can see that im still advocating vigilante killings.

So why chastise him for doing so? You keep talking about proven townies, yet beyond those who died in Day Two, we don't really know anyone to be proven as town. Heck, you don't even know if my claims were true! So this whole "he's lynching/killing proven townies" approach is poor.


What i cant understand is why you take such offense for questioning Sasaki and his motives? Because he posts the most, his intentions should not be questioned?

You misunderstand, I don't take offense, it isn't like this is a personal attack against me or anything.

You are questioning his intentions when he is following through something that you are in support of; he is attacking people who have looked remotely scummy, which is what you suggested a few phases back. Whether I am mafia or not, I believe that a fair amount of his targets have looked scummy and have been adequate targets for vigilante kills.

[Reenk Roink]

No claim is always scummier than claim, even of an unlikely role. Unless you do it really badly.

I don't think uncooperative is particularly scummy.

Again, no claim is generally less scummy. I don't know why people think the opposite (Renata seemed to think I cared what her role was when she first contacted me). I don't want to claim because I don't like playing the game according to other people's ideas (on threat of lynch! :laugh4:).


A slower game means more time for the mafia to recruit. If we'd taken the slow approach in pirate ship the English mafia would have hit 7 members really quickly. Remember, chaotix was a potential recruit and a potential lynch --> potential extra night for mafia to recruit or kill.

Sure there's more time to recruit. There is also more time to find the Mafia and gather better information. On the flip side, by killing a bunch of townies, the conversions make a much bigger impact in terms of ratios. :yes:

Also, you yourself have said you were offered a bribe. I'm guessing you'll maintain that you haven't taken it. This means that conversion isn't like PSM (where people had to join).

PSM is an anomoly because the four horsemen struck true for whatever reason (and TinCow with his early anti Maven play :sad:).

[Jolt]

Just fyi, the reason I'm not revealing is that I've always been opposed to following the lead of others, especially when their methods don't have the same epistemic merit or empirical results of mine.

Which results?


Didn't read the thread about you fully, but I do remember you whining at the end. That's my impression. Also what "reason" is there to lynch me besides the fact that I'm 1337?

Not at the end. I was whining because I was being set up, and in case I died, I'd have the benefit of proving I was correct. The reason is you're organizing vig kills against townies under absolutely no known parameters, adding the fact that I don't know whether you're trustworthy to do such a things.


Try to get your facts straight before making accusations. I asked for help to attack two people: Secura and Sigurd. Secura because I had a strong feeling on her. Sigurd because I analyzed exactly how the relationship between him Renata and Sasaki was, and found reasonable suspicion. And I still talked to Sasaki about Sigurd frequently, because a claim of 'tracker' (another role not mentioned) should still be treated with some consideration.


Yaropolk is going to get vigged tonight. Atpg the next, he's trying for what he thinks will be the easiest lynch.

This post among previous ones, makes you threatening and planning vig kills against probable townies.


On the other hand, Sasaki attacked Chaotix, who not only being a confirmed townie, was trying to organize a vig group: http://www.quicktopic.com/44/H/dET43fekNYK

The reason? "Lurking" :rolleyes:

I'm darn glad he's dead. Killing people at random is stupid. We don't need townies doing stupid stuff. If killing him prevents random vig hits, then so far I see a good action, to be honest. If the others are found to also be killing at random, then I'll say here I'll be darn glad to lynch them or kill them to prevent them from being stupid consecutively.


Protecting Sigurd and being there as a arm when needed.

Oh, I was protecting Sigurd? That's funny, I thought I was protecting someone else. And what arm thing? I don't really see anything where I have been helping Sasaki directly.

But hey if your information is as epistemicly meritful or empirically reliable as to tell you I was protecting Sigurd, then I'm sure we can all go by without it.

[Reenk Roink]

Which results?

Read thread.


This post among previous ones, makes you threatening and planning vig kills against probable townies.

Yaropolk isn't a townie, he's got some kind of role. Atpg was in the vig group that attacked me btw. Also, where was the action of attacking either of these guys, unlike say Secura or even Sigurd?


Oh, I was protecting Sigurd? That's funny, I thought I was protecting someone else. And what arm thing? I don't really see anything where I have been helping Sasaki directly.

But hey if your information is as epistemicly meritful or empirically reliable as to tell you I was protecting Sigurd, then I'm sure we can all go by without it.

So you didn't protect Sigurd because Sasaki didn't tell you to? :rolleyes: Ok then. :laugh4:

[Kagemusha]

So why chastise him for doing so? You keep talking about proven townies, yet beyond those who died in Day Two, we don't really know anyone to be proven as town. Hell, you don't even know if my claims were true! So this whole "he's lynching/killing proven townies" approach is poor.



You misunderstand, I don't take offense, it isn't like this is a personal attack against me or anything.

You are questioning his intentions when he is following through something that you are in support of; he is attacking people who have looked remotely scummy, which is what you suggested a few phases back. Whether I am mafia or not, I believe that a fair amount of his targets have looked scummy and have been adequate targets for vigilante kills.

As i told Sasaki himself few posts a go. Im not questioning his strategy as incorrect one, but his motives. For example if you look at Thermal Mercury´s posts in the thread. How do they look suspicious? To me he was being quite constructive. His undoing was that he decided not to cooperate with Sasaki. Which shows that Mr.Kojiro is imposing himself to others as the only option for them. You either cooperate with him or you die. How does such strategy show him being helpfull to anything other then his own goals, what ever those might be?

[Reenk Roink]

Essentially, Secura, what Kage means is that the town shouldn't put up with what Sasaki thinks is "scummy" or not. Not only is it doing that letting him go for who he's killed, but a good portion of it is following him further as you can see by the vig hits on me and the votes.

I think however, that you generally agree with Sasaki about what is scummy and not so it may be a moot point. A shame really. :shame:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Again, no claim is generally less scummy. I don't know why people think the opposite (Renata seemed to think I cared what her role was when she first contacted me). I don't want to claim because I don't like playing the game according to other people's ideas (on threat of lynch! :laugh4:).

Mafia often claim, but sometimes it's too risky. They might get caught out because they copied pm's from a previous game by the host, for example.

Anyway, I believed jolt when he claimed soldier, and argued that we didn't know how well the writeups reflected the strength of the fighter, pointing at midgard as an example. So I don't see why you'd think your claim couldn't buy you some slack.


Sure there's more time to recruit. There is also more time to find the Mafia and gather better information. On the flip side, by killing a bunch of townies, the conversions make a much bigger impact in terms of ratios. :yes:

Also, you yourself have said you were offered a bribe. I'm guessing you'll maintain that you haven't taken it. This means that conversion isn't like PSM (where people had to join).

PSM is an anomoly because the four horsemen struck true for whatever reason (and TinCow with his early anti Maven play :sad:).

I think townies would be much more likely to take a mafia offer if the town was sitting on their ass not trying to kill the mafia :)

Investigations aren't certain and the are much more useful when they have discussion to go on, and less suspicious people to worry about checking up on.

[TinCow]

I say we nuke Reenk, Sasaki, and Jolt from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

We can start with Reenk.

Vote: Reenk Roink

[Secura]

As i told Sasaki himself few posts a go. Im not questioning his strategy as incorrect one, but his motives. For example if you look at Thermal Mercury´s posts in the thread. How do they look suspicious? To me he was being quite constructive. His undoing was that he decided not to cooperate with Sasaki. Which shows that Mr.Kojiro is imposing himself to others as the only option for them. You either cooperate with him or you die. How does such strategy show him being helpfull to anything other then his own goals, what ever those might be?

This is all what you're inferring though, correct?

This game strikes me as being a very 'closed doors' affair with plenty of things occuring beyond the thread, despite all the posts; who knows how many QuickTopics and PMs have been bandied around since things started? You cannot know everything that has occured, nobody can, so how can we be certain of this strategy of "join me or die"? Seems a bit of a stretch, really.

I wouldn't say Thermal looked inherently scummy, by the way, but some of his posts did raises suspicions; he was a viable target. I can think of better choices, just I can think of worse.


I think however, that you generally agree with Sasaki about what is scummy and not so it may be a moot point. A shame really. :shame:

Hahaha, go look at Dethy II; his opinions (and indeed, it seems most of the Gameroom's) of what is scummy differ from my own a fair bit. :P

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Essentially, Secura, what Kage means is that the town shouldn't put up with what Sasaki thinks is "scummy" or not. Not only is it doing that letting him go for who he's killed, but a good portion of it is following him further as you can see by the vig hits on me and the votes.

I think however, that you generally agree with Sasaki about what is scummy and not so it may be a moot point. A shame really. :shame:

I had nothing to do with the vig hits on you, and the votes are coming because of what was revealed in the writeup. And my suspicions are better than random.org you know, even with all the broken eggs :yes:

Besides reenk. The real trick is deciding who is innocent. What do you think my track record is on that so far this game? Doing that well and knocking out the people you aren't sure of is a good way of doing things. It is simply not hard for mafioso's to appear 'not suspicious'. That's where your strategy goes wrong It's like playing battleship and worrying about the misses, even when they cut down on the spots where the aircraft carrier could be.

[Reenk Roink]

Mafia often claim, but sometimes it's too risky. They might get caught out because they copied pm's from a previous game by the host, for example.

Anyway, I believed jolt when he claimed soldier, and argued that we didn't know how well the writeups reflected the strength of the fighter, pointing at midgard as an example. So I don't see why you'd think your claim couldn't buy you some slack.

Ok: I'm a champion of the Holy Roman Emporer. I can get a great victory if I survive with the town and a noble also survives.

You gonna vote CDf now? :rolleyes:


Investigations aren't certain and the are much more useful when they have discussion to go on, and less suspicious people to worry about checking up on.

Discussion does not equal lynching, vigging. Especially when you go off and vig someone by yourself when a member of your vig group wishes to discuss about who else, offers some choices, and argues against the choice you wish to kill. :stare:


Besides reenk. The real trick is deciding who is innocent. What do you think my track record is on that so far this game? Doing that well and knocking out the people you aren't sure of is a good way of doing things. It is simply not hard for mafioso's to appear 'not suspicious'. That's where your strategy goes wrong It's like playing battleship and worrying about the misses, even when they cut down on the spots where the aircraft carrier could be.

I'll give you this, you're convinced that Sigurd is innocent. Me not so much. Renata though, you seem to be intimating that she wasn't innocent recently.

And no, when I play battleship, I worry about my hit rate and try to keep it near 100%. :beam:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Ok: I'm a champion of the Holy Roman Emporer. I can get a great victory if I survive with the town and a noble also survives.

You gonna vote CDf now? :rolleyes:

Probably, given that there is a role in the game that's a noble. Why don't you pm me more about it?

[Subotan]

No lynching is a decent strategy in this game rather than just someone each round. This game above most others should have more evidence considered before lynching people. Why? This is because the Mafia have not been able to kill very often, as we can obviously see by the ratio of vig/lynch deaths to Mafia kills.

A conservative approach is better in this game.
I disagree. As Sasaki said, we don't have that time, due to the possibility of recruitment. However, we should lynch someone because they are mafioso, not because they are arguing their case instead of meekly accepting their fate or for disagreeing with most prominent townie. And to do that, we should be using evidence, rather than semantics.

Looking back over the evidence, one player stands out as being uncharacteristically quiet; Cultured Drizzt Fan. A grand total of five posts sticks out like a sore thumb from an otherwise bubbly player; at least when town. Of these, only a No Lynch, a Vote for me (Because I argued that No Lynch is dumb, lol) and a vote for Kagemusha are anything of substance. Now of course, inactivity alone is not enough to implicate a player, but a possible investigation is:



My gut says CDf is something.
Vote: CDf


I have no idea if that is an investigation result or not. But is certainly better justification for lynching someone than "Oh no he is better at fighting than me boo hoo", especially considering that there are (I quote:) "suspicious objects" in his room.

[Renata]

When did that happen, Reenk?

Edit: referring to this:


Especially when you go off and vig someone by yourself when a member of your vig group wishes to discuss about who else, offers some choices, and argues against the choice you wish to kill.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I wouldn't mind lynching Psychonaut actually. CDF has posted so little that it's bizzare that psycho's gut would say that he "is something". It's a weird vote in any case.

Investigation from psycho? Seems doubtful.


I'll give you this, you're convinced that Sigurd is innocent. Me not so much. Renata though, you seem to be intimating that she wasn't innocent recently.

And no, when I play battleship, I worry about my hit rate and try to keep it near 100%.

Oh, but I'm not convinced Sigurd is innocent, I don't think Renata is particularly guilty. So.

lol at battleship though. I can see you doing that.

[Secura]

Looking back over the evidence, one player stands out as being uncharacteristically quiet; Cultured Drizzt Fan. A grand total of five posts sticks out like a sore thumb from an otherwise bubbly player; at least when town.

CDf has stated in his own Swords and D20s game that he is currently sorting his life out, and is taking a break from the forums for a while once his game and Shadow Fort have concluded. Centurion1 can back that statement up, I'm sure, or you can find the posts yourself in the thread.

He's just incredibly inactive at the moment. :3

[Jolt]

Yaropolk isn't a townie, he's got some kind of role. Atpg was in the vig group that attacked me btw. Also, where was the action of attacking either of these guys, unlike say Secura or even Sigurd?

Yaropolk does have a role, as does everybody else. From what I've gathered, it is not anti-town.
The fact is that these vig squads start by someone claiming (privately or publicly) that they want to vig kill someone. You seem to not have gathered that much support to go for Yaropolk, nor Atpg. That doesn't mean you didn't want to, nor that other people didn't volunteer to do as you pretended to do.


So you didn't protect Sigurd because Sasaki didn't tell you to?

Hm. Trying to read things that don't exist and put words into my mouth, aren't we? You're not helping yourself in my eyes. Not that you care, I reckon.

I'll give you a tip that Sasaki did suggest to me someone to defend (Which was not Sigurd. Oh! Surprise, surprise!), as did other people make suggestions and requests for me to defend a third person and other people requested to me that I protect them myself. I'll let you in that I did not take Sasaki's suggestion.

[Reenk Roink]

Renata, Sasaki told me you survived being stabbed in the chest because you had some frozen cake. Then he said something about anti town demons.


Probably, given that there is a role in the game that's a noble. Why don't you pm me more about it?

No, who the heck are you to be in charge? :stare: besides, there are 7 votes on me, and 2 on CDf.

Given my role name is out I'll tell this much IN PUBLIC. My night actions include killing in a vig group OR killing alone. I can also protect alone.

My close victory is I die but the noble lives. My close defeat is the noble dies (presumably I am alive) and the defeat is that we're both dead.

[Subotan]

If it was just Pscyhonaut's vote, then I wouldn't care. I'd probably even be wary of Psychonaut. But I received a PM a few hours ago from a confirmed investigator which makes me pretty confident:


I didnt get a confirm about CDF, I need to investigate him again if I want a confirmation. My preliminary "search of his house showed suspicious objects"

Unvote; Vote CDF

[Diamondeye]

So you didn't protect Sigurd because Sasaki didn't tell you to? :rolleyes: Ok then. :laugh4:

Did you realize that I actually posted the names of all four players protecting Sigurd? And that Jolt was not among them?
:rolleyes:


I'll give you this, you're convinced that Sigurd is innocent. Me not so much. Renata though, you seem to be intimating that she wasn't innocent recently.

And just to pop in; I don't know if Sigurd is innocent either, but he claimed that he could be of great use to the town and he's a good player, so giving him a chance to prove himself wasn't unreasonable. Talking of that, where'd he go? Sigurd?
I don't know about Renata, to be honest. She's been protecting Sigurd with me the night before I died, but other than that I don't know nothing.

Also, lynching CDf seems like a bad solution considering he's probably just inactive. I'd prefer Seon, I think...

[Sasaki Kojiro]

unvote:reenk, vote:CDF

Interesting, we should put him in reach at least.

Is this the same investigator that said jolt was guilty though?

[Subotan]

Is this the same investigator that said jolt was guilty though?
Nope. I have no idea who that is.

[Renata]

Renata, Sasaki told me you survived being stabbed in the chest because you had some frozen cake. Then he said something about anti town demons.

How does that answer the question I asked?

It's true; that is how I survived, silly as it sounds. I'm not 100% sure of the rules as regards what dead people can or cannot say, but I discussed the cake briefly with Winston Hughes before he died. He can maybe confirm that. It appears to have been a one-shot protection item.

[Secura]

I'm surprised that nobody else has said "the cake is a lie". :P

[a completely inoffensive name]

Someone tell me in list form the reasons why Reenk is a bad guy. The bandwagoning in this game has been manipulated by mafia from the very beginning where everyone suddenly started jumping down Beskar's throat when I knew for a fact that he was innocent.
FoS: TinCow
I have reason to believe Reenk is innocent and for him to suggest taking out him, Jolt and Sasaki makes me think he is a mafia attempting to take out three strong pro town roles very rapidly.
as of right now: Vote:CDF

Also, the cake is a lie.

[Seon]

Unvote. Vote: CDF

Let's hope that this investigator knows what he's doing.

[TinCow]

I believe Reenk's reveal. I also believe in the cake.

Unvote; Vote: CDF

[Secura]

I think an investigator should check Seon out. :3

[Scienter]

Still Fos: Methos but Vote: CDF. Hopefully we haven't all been had...

[Reenk Roink]

This is mind bogglingly ridiculous. One reveal and the bandwagon unzips just like with Jolt. :stare: I spent over an hour discussing much more matters of import and this is what it takes... The mob... :rolleyes:


How does that answer the question I asked?

It's true; that is how I survived, silly as it sounds. I'm not 100% sure of the rules as regards what dead people can or cannot say, but I discussed the cake briefly with Winston Hughes before he died. He can maybe confirm that. It appears to have been a one-shot protection item.

I thought it did, but here is the PM, entitled "you do know"


The best defense is a good offense :whip:

Why don't you accuse Renata, who survived you stabbing her in the chest because, according to her, "she was carrying a cake in her pocket that froze"? There are demons in the game who are anti town you know :yes:

Sasaki


Did you realize that I actually posted the names of all four players protecting Sigurd? And that Jolt was not among them?
:rolleyes:

Did you realize I knew of those players before you ever did because I was CC'd the orders from them? The reason I did not mention them like you did is because when I have suspicions with people I work with, I don't cry and go to thread immediately, rather I try to sort it out in private. :rolleyes:

Of course the four players who protected Sigurd when he was attacked the night before this one wasn't with Jolt. Jolt can protect by himself so it is claimed. My allegation is that Jolt protected Sigurd tonight. I PM'd Sasaki, Renata, and khaan about protecting Sigurd, and got the impression that he was being protected but by none of them. So I suspect Jolt of the protection at night, and I still do, even against his word.


That doesn't mean you didn't want to, nor that other people didn't volunteer to do as you pretended to do.

We went through a big mess about the three person group on Sigurd. I can get that group to target you if you'd like.

My reasons for not going after Yaropolk are my own. Atpg I let go in the thread, I thought he was trying for an easy lynch earlier but he probably wasn't.


When did that happen, Reenk?

Edit: referring to this:

I remember sending a Pm suggesting khaan and Secura as possible vigs. Sasaki wanted otherwise, and killed Chaotix without telling us. You mentioned in passing that Sasaki had killed Chaotix later in PM, I had no idea about it until then.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

This is mind bogglingly ridiculous. One reveal and the bandwagon unzips just like with Jolt. I spent over an hour discussing much more matters of import and this is what it takes... The mob...

I told you :beam:

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Hmm.. I would like to know what evidence there is against CDf?
People vote for him because he is "lurking"?
Like Secura said he have RL issues that prevent him from posting.
This does not make him a mafia.
Looks like currently the town runs around like headless chicken not knowing where to go!

[TheFlax]

It is ridiculous, from one bandwagon to another, and on some vaguely reliable information to boot. (No offense Subotan). I'm not convinced at all and it seems pointless to go against what seems to be general consensus at the moment.

So, Vote: Abstain.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

It's true that an initial result like that is not that convincing. I'd rather wagon another person and have the investigator take a 2nd shot at CDF and see what he turns up. Would like to be sure it's safe to try a switch though, but we'd need a vote count for that.

[Seon]

Since CDF doesn't talk much anyways, wouldn't it be better to lynch CDF this evening and then use the investigator on other people (ie: people like me)?

[TheFlax]

Since CDF doesn't talk much anyways, wouldn't it be better to lynch CDF this evening and then use the investigator on other people (ie: people like me)?

No.

Tally:

CDF: 8 (Psychonaut, Reenk Roink, Subotan, Sasaki Kojiro, ACIN, Seon, TinCow, Scienter)
Reenk Roink: 2 (Beskar, Jolt)
Abstain: 1 (TheFlax)

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Since CDF doesn't talk much anyways, wouldn't it be better to lynch CDF this evening and then use the investigator on other people (ie: people like me)?

Or perhaps they should lynch you instead?
You constantly join every bandwagon that is started.
The same goes for Tincow and that is suspicious.

[Jolt]

We went through a big mess about the three person group on Sigurd. I can get that group to target you if you'd like.

If you think it will help you, be my guest.:sneaky:

Unvote, Vote: CDF

[Reenk Roink]

Unvote: CDf
Vote: TinCow

[Captain Blackadder]

fos everyone after Subotan in the votes


This CDF lynch just seems to be a poor choice to me he is inactive yes but he has his reason and I suspect since he may not be coming back for a while the better option is to allow CR to wog him.


Vote Seon

For shamless bandwagoning

[TinCow]

Unvote: CDf
Vote: TinCow

Unvote; Vote: Reenk :stare:

[Thermal]

First off, this lexis war is pathetic, it isn't signifying any reasoning for the game, but more being a nuisance (Waiting for Sasaki to say I put being in the wrong place :rolleyes: )


Just curious Reenk... who do you want people to listen to if not Sasaki?

You should take a look at the post count:


There's no other player who seems to have invested as much into this game than Sasaki. So who else does the town follow?

Sasaki has the most posts in GH's mafia, hes on a role in general, whilst he posts a lot it doesn't mean we have to listen to him (not that I'm saying we should ignore Sasaki either) post count should have little relevance.


Other than that we've had OMGUS votes (Tincow) Bandwagon disease (Seon) and Reenk's reveal, which I hope will reveal CDF's true identity, given write ups can be tampered with, it may conceal any evidence that CDF is innocent though, if he were to be...

I don't know why I felt the need to summarize, but I did.

[Renata]

I remember sending a Pm suggesting khaan and Secura as possible vigs. Sasaki wanted otherwise, and killed Chaotix without telling us. You mentioned in passing that Sasaki had killed Chaotix later in PM, I had no idea about it until then.

I can't remember the exact sequence of events, but it's misleading to suggest to that Sasaki was the sole reason that neither Khaan nor Secura got vigged that night. We did not have a fourth, as CDF was not responding, and neither did Centurion.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I don't understand the big opposition to the CDF wagon. TheFlax and CaptainB, can you explain it to me?

[GeneralHankerchief]

I don't think I've ever felt so out of the loop while still alive in a game.

Vote: Reenk

[Myrddraal]

First off, this lexis war is pathetic, it isn't signifying any reasoning for the game, but more being a nuisance

Agreed. Reenk you claim that you have been discussing much more important matters. It seems to me you've been arguing about words, and nothing much else. I stopped reading your argument with Sasaki after the first four posts or so... It seems to me you're both innocent. Isn't that the most important matter?


I don't understand the big opposition to the CDF wagon. TheFlax and CaptainB, can you explain it to me?

I don't understand either. Surely a loose lead is better than a random vote, or worse still a vote on a seemingly innocent Reenk?

Vote: CDF

PS, my apologies for disappearing over the weekend. I unexpectedly didn't have net access.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I don't think I've ever felt so out of the loop while still alive in a game.

Vote: Reenk

bs, your just lurking. The vote for reenk proves that, you trying to show you haven't been paying attention.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I scrolled past most of Sasaki and Reenk's posts... I'm sure it held a lot of meaning for the both of you but I pooped out after about 12 of them.

Vote: Captain Blackadder

I can confirm what Sasaki said about White_Eyes.

[GeneralHankerchief]

bs, your just lurking. The vote for reenk proves that, you trying to show you haven't been paying attention.

Paying attention =/= being out of the loop.

[TheFlax]

I don't understand the big opposition to the CDF wagon. TheFlax and CaptainB, can you explain it to me?

Part of it comes from the way the bandwagon on RR switched to CDF on the basis of a single post. Other than that, well it just seems we have too little for a pile on. Now, granted there isn't much to discuss about CDF since he hasn't been very active, but for all most of us know, Subotan might have made the whole investigation up. (Not saying that he did) Furthermore, the result of "CDF has suspicious stuff in his room" is awfully vague. I know there are no 100% confirmed investigation in this game, but coupled with the fact that we have no way of checking on the info, it just seems a bit weak for such a pile on.

So, in essence, I don't feel that CDF is a bad vote, but I do not like how the bandwaggon picked up against him (and RR before him) so quickly. It bodes poorly for future rounds.

Friendly Neighborhood Tally:

CDF: 8 (Psychonaut, Subotan, Sasaki Kojiro, ACIN, Seon, Scienter, Jolt, Myrddraal)
Reenk Roink: 3 (Beskar, TinCow, GeneralHankerchief)
TinCow: 1 (Reenk Roink)
Seon:1 (Captain Blackadder)
Captain Blackadder: 1 (ATPG)
Abstain: 1 (TheFlax)

[Secura]

Lynch Seon then; he's joined every single bandwagon thus far and contributed next-to-nothing to your discussions!

He has something to hide, I tell thee! :curtain:

[Askthepizzaguy]

I tried to do this in private but Flax wouldn't answer my questions there.

Do you have any explanation for your actions last night, Flax?

[TheFlax]

I tried to do this in private but Flax wouldn't answer my questions there.

Do you have any explanation for your actions last night, Flax?

As I said in private, spell out what were my actions last night before I answer anything. This seems awfully like baiting to me.

[Askthepizzaguy]

As I said in private, spell out what were my actions last night before I answer anything. This seems awfully like baiting to me.

This seems awfully like your hand was caught in the cookie jar.

unvote, vote: TheFlax

[autolycus]

CDF seems to be handling getting lynched just fine without my help. I finally am convinced, at least for the moment, that RR is clean. Therefore, I shall join atpg in choosing to vote: Captain Blackadder.

[TheFlax]

This seems awfully like your hand was caught in the cookie jar.

unvote, vote: TheFlax

Explain YOUR night actions...

[autolycus]

While I was composing my last one, the previous interchange got posted. In light of that, unvote: Captain Blackadder, vote: TheFlax.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Nah. He's got an alibi.

unvote, vote: Captain Blackadder

This is what I get for pretending to know things in the hopes of rattling someone.

[TheFlax]

While I was composing my last one, the previous interchange got posted. In light of that, unvote: Captain Blackadder, vote: TheFlax.

Why are you voting exactly like ATPG? :inquisitive:

[autolycus]

Because he's a smart feller. If I don't have any real leads but don't feel the need to vote for cdf, slaving my vote to atpg's for additional pressure is a decent tactic. unvote: TheFlax, vote: Captain Blackadder:scholar::book:

[Askthepizzaguy]

I should caution peeps that I am firing rather blindly here, as would be noted by my vote on TheFlax. But for lack of solid leads, and since CDF isn't exactly going to show up and answer questions... pressuring people is a good idea.

[naut]

I personally would ask why Seon joins every bandwagon there is?
True. I extend an FoS: Seon


But I received a PM a few hours ago from a confirmed investigator which makes me pretty confident:
Uncanny. Very uncanny. But the following makes me suspect.


CDf has stated in his own Swords and D20s game that he is currently sorting his life out, and is taking a break from the forums for a while once his game and Shadow Fort have concluded. Centurion1 can back that statement up, I'm sure, or you can find the posts yourself in the thread.

He's just incredibly inactive at the moment. :3
But, we should ignore Secura.

I don't want to be part of this bandwagon, I don't have another option though, but I don't trust this investigator.

Unvote: CDf

[Captain Blackadder]

I don't understand the big opposition to the CDF wagon. TheFlax and CaptainB, can you explain it to me?

I am againest it because CDF is overall inactive not posting here in 4 days amd as he said he felt like taking a break from the org. With this in mind I think he should be wogged in a couple of rounds and there is no need to waste a lynch and a round by allowing people to simpply hide in the pack of a huge bandwagon.

FOS
autolycus

Sucking up to atpg by agreeing with him all the time is a scummy tactic I should know I have done it a couple of times when I was mafia.

[pevergreen]

Reenk: You have got to be kidding me!

[Subotan]

CR: If CDF remains inactive, when will he be WOGed?

[johnhughthom]

Vote: Autolycus

You not got a mind of your own?

[Joooray]

Man, it's a pain to read up on this. And afterwards one isn't even any better informed than before. There is way too much going on behind the scenes! I can understand the need for that, but it also makes the town vulnerable to being influenced by the wrong people.

Anyway, Cdf seems to have enough votes already and I tend to agree with CB in that he is not a good target as he is clearly absent entirely from the Org at the moment. From all the choices given, it's Seon posts that make me the most suspicious of him. Thus Vote: Seon.

[Renata]

I think I'm OK with lynching CDF under the circumstances. If nothing else, it might eventually give us some feedback on this investigator.

vote: CDF

[GeneralHankerchief]

I'd start looking very closely at the people who jumped on this inane CDF bandwagon.

[Renata]

And what have you been doing with your time, General Hankerchief?

[Subotan]

I'd start looking very closely at the people who jumped on this inane CDF bandwagon.
Why is the Reenk bandwagon any less inane than the CDF one?

[GeneralHankerchief]

Things.

-edit- @ Subotan, the biggest drama for the first half was the Reenk/Sasaki showdown. It agonized a lot of people because it meant they had to read things and pick a side. They had to be controversial, if you will. Now the CDF thing is providing a safe alternative for everybody. They get to breathe because some mysterious unknown investigator says he may be suspicious. This is something everyone can agree on, so everyone is sighing in relief and taking the easy way out. conveniently ignoring the fact that he is going to be dead in a turn or two anyway.

[Methos]

Friendly Neighborhood Tally:

CDF: 8 (Psychonaut, Subotan, Sasaki Kojiro, ACIN, Seon, Scienter, Jolt, Myrddraal)
Reenk Roink: 4 (Beskar, TinCow, GeneralHankerchief, Methos)
TinCow: 1 (Reenk Roink)
Seon:1 (Captain Blackadder)
Captain Blackadder: 1 (ATPG)
Abstain: 1 (TheFlax)

Tally edited. The first author (Subotan?) screwed up and forgot me.

[atheotes]

Not convinced by the argument on CDF... more so because he could get WoGd.
I will stick with my vote from yesterday.
Vote: Tincow

[Crazed Rabbit]

Voting over (eight minutes ago).

Yes, people who are inactive long enough will be WoG'd.

CDF will be lynched, write up to follow.

For now, the night phase has begun.

CR

[Secura]

I'd have voted Seon or Autolycus myself. ¬_¬

[Yaropolk]

Tally edited. The first author (Subotan?) screwed up and forgot me.

Friendly Neighborhood Tally:

CDF: 8 (Psychonaut, Subotan, Sasaki Kojiro, ACIN, Seon, Scienter, Jolt, Myrddraal)
Reenk Roink: 5 (Beskar, TinCow, GeneralHankerchief, Methos, Yaro)
TinCow: 1 (Reenk Roink)
Seon:1 (Captain Blackadder)
Captain Blackadder: 1 (ATPG)
Abstain: 1 (TheFlax)

Seems like Subotan conveniently left me out as well.

[Jolt]

I'm open to hearing pleas for protection for this night as long as they are justified. Thank you.

- Jolt Securities Inc. :bow:

[Methos]

Seems like Subotan conveniently left me out as well.

Makes me curious if Subotan "conveniently" forgot about the two of our votes against Reenk for a reason.

[TheFlax]

Friendly Neighborhood Tally:

CDF: 8 (Psychonaut, Subotan, Sasaki Kojiro, ACIN, Seon, Scienter, Jolt, Myrddraal)
Reenk Roink: 5 (Beskar, TinCow, GeneralHankerchief, Methos, Yaro)
TinCow: 1 (Reenk Roink)
Seon:1 (Captain Blackadder)
Captain Blackadder: 1 (ATPG)
Abstain: 1 (TheFlax)

Seems like Subotan conveniently left me out as well.

Don't pile on poor Subotan, its my fault I missed your votes. Sorry.

[Subotan]

Tally edited. The first author (Subotan?) screwed up and forgot me.
I set up the tally in the last round of voting

[atheotes]

I set up the tally in the last round of voting

So you conveniently forgot to do the tally this round
:creep:

[Subotan]

Dun Dun DUNNNNN

[Crazed Rabbit]

The votes were tallied, and a winner had been decided. Gerard hoped this would be the last lynching.

“Cultured Drizzt fan!”

CDF was just standing around in the courtyard.

“CDF!” CDF started looking at some clouds.

It wasn’t until some soldiers had grabbed him and dragged him halfway to the gallows that he spoke out, “What’s happening? This isn’t right!”

“I wonder how many men about to be hung argue that such an act is right?” mused Hans.

Gerard had had enough of listening to people’s inane last words, so he ordered CDF gagged.

The hanging was over quickly, and CDF’s body slung alongside the others.

“Well, it’s night again. Let’s hope no more good people are killed,” sighed Gerard before retiring to his room.

It is now the night phase! This phase will last 26 hours from the time of this post, until 2 pm PST March 23rd.


Tally: (Thanks to various people)
CDF: 8 (Psychonaut, Subotan, Sasaki Kojiro, ACIN, Seon, Scienter, Jolt, Myrddraal)
Reenk Roink: 5 (Beskar, TinCow, GeneralHankerchief, Methos, Yaro)
TinCow: 1 (Reenk Roink)
Seon:1 (Captain Blackadder)
Captain Blackadder: 1 (ATPG)
Abstain: 1 (TheFlax)


Alive:
Beskar
a completely inoffensive name
Csargo
Jolt
atheotes
Sasaki Kojiro
Joooray
GeneralHankerchief
TinCow
Askthepizzaguy
White_eyes:D
Subotan
Reenk Roink
Yaropolk
Sigurd
TheFlax
Yaseikhaan
slashandburn
Double A
Beefy187
Myrddraal
Scienter
Renata
spL1tp3r50naL1ty
Captain Blackadder
Seon
Methos
autolycus
johnhughtom
Psychonaut


Lynched:
Kagemusha D2
Secura D3
Ibn-Khaldun D4
Cultured Drizzt Fan D5


Killed:
Chaotix N2
Seamus Fermanagh N2
A Very Super Market N2
Winston Hughes N3
Centurion1 N3
Diamondeyes N4
Thermal Mercury N4
pevergreen N4

[Subotan]

Obviously, Diamondeye has a vampire role, as he is in both the dead and the life lists.

[TheFlax]

Obviously, Diamondeye has a vampire role, as he is in both the dead and the life lists.

No you got it wrong, there are many Diamondeye"s" dead and one alive. CLONES! :help:

[Subotan]

Maybe a Star Wars: Attack of the Clones mafia would be more appropriate then

[Winston Hughes]

I'm not 100% sure of the rules as regards what dead people can or cannot say, but I discussed the cake briefly with Winston Hughes before he died. He can maybe confirm that.

I can confirm that Renata mentioned cake to me before I died.

[Askthepizzaguy]

The cake is a lie. The internets told me so.

[Joooray]

If I'm not mistaken, there are some votes (at least mine) missing from the tally. That don't matter as they wouldn't have changed the outcome, I just wanted to make sure that that won't get me WoG'ed at some point. :shrug:

[TheFlax]

If I'm not mistaken, there are some votes (at least mine) missing from the tally. That don't matter as they wouldn't have changed the outcome, I just wanted to make sure that that won't get me WoG'ed at some point. :shrug:

Yeah, my Tally wasn't up to date *AND* missed a few people... :embarassed:

[slashandburn]

So much to read, i lost internet and had to read 10 pages but i think im caught up now.

[Kagemusha]

:creep:

[Crazed Rabbit]

Orders closed 14 minutes ago.

CR

[Crazed Rabbit]

The Shadow Fort Day Six

The sun retreated behind the mountains to the west, and darkness came again to the fort. People left the keep and went about their business inside the fort.

One of those people was Slashandburn. He was almost back to his room when two men stepped out of the building in front of him, weapons drawn.

Slash started to back away quickly and drew his own sword. His attackers advanced.

Slash decided the better part of valor was discretion, and turned to run, but he never got to the running part. Three more attackers were advancing from behind him. He was surrounded.

With a yell, the five attackers advanced, weapons ready to strike. Slashandburn blocked a spear with his sword and tried to move to the side, but a sword cut across his back. Slash stopped his dash and swung out wildly behind him with his sword, almost catching one attacker. A different attacker struck again, hitting Slash with his sword. Slash tried to stab out at the attacker, but the others struck at him and he fell to the ground, quickly bleeding to death.

One of the attackers took a nearby torch and light slash’s clothes on fire and then all his attackers faded into the darkness.

Across town Johnhughtom was just leaving the tavern. He was near the center of the fortress when a figure emerged from the darkness, holding a large sword and advancing swiftly.

John quickly glanced around while he drew his sword. There was no one else approaching, but running now would likely end in getting cut down from behind. He turned and faced his opponent, sword at the ready.

His attacker struck downwards. John flung his sword up and blocked it, before thrusting quickly. The blow was well aimed at his attacker’s neck.

But the attacker pivoted his sword and deflected the blow into empty air. For the briefest of moments John could do nothing but mentally gape at the skill. But then his attacker’s strike, part of the deflection swing, hit his shoulder and he jumped back out of instinct.

John threw his sword into a random guard position as he staggered back. The attacker did not relent, stepping forward and striking hard at his non-injured side. The blow hit home with great force. John gasped in pain, clutching the wound, but managed to keep his sword in his hand. He struck out one last time at his attacker, but the attacker simply stepped back and the sword went through air.

As soon as the sword passed the attacker stepped forward and brought the sword down for a final blow. John died in the middle of snow tinged red with his own blood.

Autolycus was on edge during the night, as he was during most nights. He found it helped in times like this. So when a smiling figure appeared before him, Autolycus quickly put his hand on the hilt of his sword.

The man in front of spread his arms to show he was unarmed, and asked him what he was doing out at this time of night.

“I could ask you the same thing,” Autolycus shot back. He looked back to make sure no one was sneaking up on him.

“I’m just wondering if you’ve seen anything…bizarre around?” the figured questioned.

“What are you talking about?” Autolycus demanded, hand tightening on his sword. He glanced to the shadows at either side.

“There have just been some strange sightings around here. You’d be wise to watch your back.”

“Sure…” a steel warhammer crashing into his skull cut Autolycus off. The attacker behind him raised the weapon again as Autolycus crumpled to the ground.

The figure that had spoken quickly knelt down beside Autolycus, having produced a knife in his hand.

“I told you to watch your back,” the attacker whispered, stabbing Autolycus in the neck. It was unnecessary. The other attacker decided to make sure in his own way, bringing the warhammer down onto Autolycus’ torso several times.

They left his body in the dirty snow.


Seon was hurrying back to his room from the tavern. He had decided to start taking a different route every night, to stop people from ambushing him. He was close to his destination when he heard something behind him.

He was turning and reaching for his sword when the arrow hit him. He looked down in a state of disbelief to see over a foot of wood sticking out of his ribs. After a moment he looked up just in time to see a distant shadow move.

He flung one arm up and turned. The arrow caught him high on his arm. He continued turning and moved behind a nearby shack. The doorway to the building he slept in was close, but he was injured and the archer was a good shot. Though if he just stood here he’d bleed to death. Already the pain was beginning to set in.

Nervously he peeked around the corner. Another attacker had appeared much closer and was running at him. He blinked – it wasn’t another attacker. It was the same man, running very quickly at his hiding spot with a sword out.

Seon moved behind the corned again, sword held ready. He would wait and then strike out as soon as his attacker was close. He could hear the rapidly approaching footsteps. In just a second – Seon lunged around the corner, ignoring the pain, and brought his sword down.

He swung through air. The bowman had ducked down at the last instant and swung at Seon’s stomach. Before Seon could even begin to double over in pain his attacker struck again, slashing at his neck. Seon gurgled as blood flowed from his neck, falling to the ground and bleeding to death.

His attacker ran swiftly into the darkness.


TheFlax was returning to his room late in the night. He kept a watchful eye out, but saw nothing unusual. As he got close to his room, he saw an armed man standing outside the door, and TheFlax paused. He glanced around him. The man he saw had a sword out; was he waiting for him?

A crossbow bolt into his lung interrupted that train of thought. TheFlax cried out in pain, and looked behind him. A cloaked figure was quickly approaching with a sword out. TheFlax weighed his options and decided to run at his attacker with his own sword.

He drew his sword, only to feel another sword thrust into his back. He turned, bleeding, in time to see the man who had been standing by the door draw back back his sword for another blow.

It landed, and TheFlax fell. His two attackers walked off into the darkness.

Gerard was having breakfast when Hans walked in.

“More dead?” he asked, know the answer. Hans nodded.

“At least we don’t have to worry about food running out!” he offered.

“The Turks can’t be doing all of this. I wonder how many good people have been killed by our own soldiers?”

“The reports are in as well. There’s some good news in them.”

“Well, that’s good,” Gerard finished eating and went to the courtroom of the keep.

“Travelers and soldiers! I have some very good news! Secura was indeed a Turkish spy, as she inexplicably claimed. I guess we just need to hope the rest are so forthright, or at least as hapless as AVSM was.

“Unfortunately, my men have found that Centurion1 was a soldier, a good man whose loss hurts us all.

“Finally, it appears that Winston Hughes was an ordinary traveler from what my guards found, though unusually fond of asparagus.”

“These killings must be stopped soon. Find the Turks and any other murderers, and bring them before me that we might hang them!”

The crowd began talking.

It is now the day phase! The day phase will end in 24 hours, or at 6 pm PST March 24.

Alive:
Beskar
a completely inoffensive name
Csargo
Jolt
atheotes
Sasaki Kojiro
Joooray
GeneralHankerchief
TinCow
Askthepizzaguy
White_eyes:D
Subotan
Reenk Roink
Yaropolk
Sigurd
Yaseikhaan
Double A
Beefy187
Myrddraal
Scienter
Renata
spL1tp3r50naL1ty
Captain Blackadder
Methos
Psychonaut


Lynched:
Kagemusha D2
Secura D3
Ibn-Khaldun D4
Cultured Drizzt Fan D5


Killed:
Chaotix N2
Seamus Fermanagh N2
A Very Super Market N2
Winston Hughes N3
Centurion1 N3
Diamondeye N4
Thermal Mercury N4
pevergreen N4
Autolycus N5
Seon N5
TheFlax N5
Slashandburn N5
johnhughtom N5

[johnhughthom]

I would like to thank the mafia in this game and Mafia IX and the killer in Then there were None. I was becoming slightly jaded playing too many games with too little time. Nothing like being murdered three times in 24 hours to make you fall in love with mafia again...

[Seon]

Freaking Assassin...

[autolycus]

Looks like some warriors decided I was too dangerous to leave alive. I'd be suspicious of TinCow, if I were you.

[Seon]

Looks like some warriors decided I was too dangerous to leave alive. I'd be suspicious of TinCow, if I were you.

No offence, auto, but you always looked kind of suspiscious in the thread :p.

[Secura]

No offence, auto, but you always looked kind of suspiscious in the thread :p.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

Anyways, whoever orchestrated those kills has actually done the town a favour; you killed a lurker, a serial bandwagonner, someone who follows Pizza's votes without utilising their own reasoning... three outta five is good going!

I'm a very pleased Spymaster. :bow:

[Seon]

I'm a very pleased Spymaster. :bow:

You have NO idea... you should be rejoicing

[Jolt]

Vote: Methos

Why did he attack Reenk again?

EDIT: Before anyone asks "again" is meant as a byword for "remind me"

[Secura]

You have NO idea... you should be rejoicing

Well, that would imply that you were a powerful pro-town role... however, I believe that your death at the hands of vigilantes was entirely your own doing; following every bandwagon was going to make you stand out eventually, no?

I'll refrain from rejoicing though, the game's not over by a long shot and anything could happen to my fellow Turks.

[Beskar]

Looks like slash&burn was slashed and burned.

[Secura]

Looks like slash&burn was slashed and burned.

I get the feeling that was the point... xD

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Looks like slash&burn was slashed and burned.

:laugh4: nice one

[Seon]

Well, that would imply that you were a powerful pro-town role... however, I believe that your death at the hands of vigilantes was entirely your own doing; following every bandwagon was going to make you stand out eventually, no?

I'll refrain from rejoicing though, the game's not over by a long shot and anything could happen to my fellow Turks.

And by doing so I eliminated the probability that a mafia would target me. Oh and I did what I could to stop the vig strike against me, believe me or not.

Anyways, it seems that my killer was a single person. Anyone willing to claim my soul?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Just a reminder...

I know that many of you have been having difficulties in finding viable groups. I'm willing to help you find others in the same position. Especially those of you who have contacted me already.

[Secura]

Anyone willing to claim my soul?

This guy is definitely willing:

http://www.hans-zimmer.ch/_admin/pics/davyjones.jpg_yadyfztrv.jpg
:laugh4:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Vote:GeneralHankerchief

[GeneralHankerchief]

Vote:GeneralHankerchief

Ooh, he's using my full name, he must be serious about this one.

[atheotes]

so we have :
Autolycus - 2 attackers - 2 warriors?
Seon - 1 attacker - spy perhaps (ranged weapon)
TheFlax - 2 attackers - 2 warriors?
Slashandburn - 4 attackers - vig kill
Johnhughthom - 2 attackers - 2 warriors?

out of the 3 attacks with 2 person teams... i guess one is Sasaki and another is Reenk. No idea about the third. either that or a couple of soldiers have gotten themselves promoted.

someone supporting vig kills please enlighten me... theoretically mafia will not have a problem being in a vig group. how do you plan to expose them? in the off chance that you will target his partner? I am very suspicious of people who would rather do vig kills than protect. :inquisitive:

[Scienter]

Wow, 5 people murdered! (If you count Johnhughton, he wasn't listed, maybe he's a zombie?)

[TinCow]

I see what looks like 1 mafia kill and 4 vig kills. That's a stupid number of vig kills. I no longer buy the argument that they're helping the town.

Also, johnhughthom hasn't been included on the dead list, which I think is an error.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

The autolycus kill is most interesting. He didn't bleed.

[autolycus]

atheotes, you have mine and seon's deaths backwards. I was killed by 2 people, he was killed by one person.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

atheotes, you have mine and seon's deaths backwards. I was killed by 2 people, he was killed by one person.

Everyone else but you bled :stare:

[Renata]

I would like to know who killed Seon and why. I was dissuaded from having my group protect him last night. By more than one person.

[Renata]

I would also like to know why only four people attacked Slashandburn.

[johnhughthom]

My death only mentions one attacker.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I would like to know who killed Seon and why. I was dissuaded from having my group protect him last night. By more than one person.

Looks to have been the guy who has been solo killing for a while. Guy who attacked subotan etc. I wonder why subotan survived that...

[johnhughthom]

Also, johnhughthom hasn't been included on the dead list, which I think is an error.

I think it is an error, I have heard rumours of vampires and demons in the game but I didn't get any pm from the host so I assume it is an error on his part.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

unvote:GeneralHankerchief, vote:Subotan

[Reenk Roink]

Vote: Methos

[Askthepizzaguy]

Seems a valid question. (post 1737)

Vote: Subotan

[Crazed Rabbit]

Johnhughtom was excluded from the list of the dead in error, and has been added.

CR

[atheotes]

Vote: Beefy
for abandoning our protection group and becoming a vigilante :stare:

[Methos]

I would also like to know why only four people attacked Slashandburn.

I agree, this doesn't make sense. I already checked the PMs and all five of us sent in orders, so what happened. What really makes things look bad, is that two of my team (Auto & Seon, both soldiers) were killed tonight. Yes, they both acted scummy, but still an odd coincidence.

@CR: Was there a mistake in the update, since I count five orders sent in.

[Beskar]

You know what would be funny? If all the turkish spies were already dead and the game is continuing because there is a random French man role still lurking about but he can't kill anyone.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Renata methos auto seon + who?

[Methos]

I'm also curious why Subotan survived. Vote: Subotan.

[Methos]

Renata methos auto seon + who?

Renata wasn't in my group.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Why are people bandwagoning Subo?

[Crazed Rabbit]

Minor edit to the write up.

CR