Org Minecraft Server [Archive] - Page 10

spankythehippo

11-04-2013, 09:55

That Iron farm (max size) takes 45x45 according to the video.

If you build it directly over the spawn it would roughtly look like this:

https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y230/asleka/IronFarmlayout_zpsa4b05ccd.png~original

(from spawn 0,65,0 -> right top corner: 23,65,-23 -> right bottom corner: 23,65,23 -> left bottom: -23,65,23 -> left top -23,65,-23)

Maybe current spawn location doesn't cut it. Would it help to move the spawn? or does it have to sit atop the 0,65,0 coordinate? It says spawn chunck no spawn point. Is there a difference?

The spawn chunk is 16 x 16 (256 blocks x 256 blocks) chunks in size. I was thinking of putting the chests and the funnels near the spawn, so that people can help themselves. But, it can be placed anywhere in the 16 x 16 chunk area. Without a mod, this area cannot be visualised. However, the spawn point is somewhere within the spawn chunk. I could map out the spawn chunks, but that would take a while.

Sigurd

11-04-2013, 10:28

Yeah... and If we (saying community) should join in this endavour, I would suggest making a new noob hotel, a skyscraper type of building:

https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y230/asleka/SpawnchunksOrgServer_zps48087953.png~original

(12x12 chunks around spawn in the image)

Sigurd

11-04-2013, 10:35

The spawn chunk is 16 x 16 (256 blocks x 256 blocks) chunks in size. I was thinking of putting the chests and the funnels near the spawn, so that people can help themselves. But, it can be placed anywhere in the 16 x 16 chunk area. Without a mod, this area cannot be visualised. However, the spawn point is somewhere within the spawn chunk. I could map out the spawn chunks, but that would take a while.
Maybe it will be different in the 1.7 update. Some claim a 18x16 chunk area, while others much smaller. One claim is that it is different for every seed. I guess you'll have to find the corners, by the 5 minute despawn of dropped items rule.
Dropped items always disappears within the spawn chunks if you move away, while they remain outside. The easiest point to test this would be the far corner of the office building closest to Nigel's house.

spankythehippo

11-04-2013, 11:39

Maybe it will be different in the 1.7 update. Some claim a 18x16 chunk area, while others much smaller. One claim is that it is different for every seed. I guess you'll have to find the corners, by the 5 minute despawn of dropped items rule.
Dropped items always disappears within the spawn chunks if you move away, while they remain outside. The easiest point to test this would be the far corner of the office building closest to Nigel's house.

Yeah, that's the method I meant.

In regards to the noob hotel, I reckon it should stay. I say that we build a huge skyscraper to accommodate the Iron Foundry. Cover up the entire thing, except the roof. The new players would spawn in the foyer of the huge skyscraper, and would have immediate access to all the iron in the world.

In other words, we make a new spawn area, with the area being the huge skyscraper.

I will build whatever the community wants to be built.

Sigurd

11-04-2013, 12:49

Yeah, that's the method I meant.

In regards to the noob hotel, I reckon it should stay. I say that we build a huge skyscraper to accommodate the Iron Foundry. Cover up the entire thing, except the roof. The new players would spawn in the foyer of the huge skyscraper, and would have immediate access to all the iron in the world.

In other words, we make a new spawn area, with the area being the huge skyscraper.

I will build whatever the community wants to be built.

I always wanted to redo the exterior on the n00b hotel ever since TinCow said he didn't mind if someone undertook such a project. I have been thinking of a Empire State building look for it... As you can see in the last image I provided, the current n00b hotel only fills a quarter of the required 45x45 foot print of the iron farm.

We could envelope the current n00b hotel in a corner of the new super scraper. I could help building the skyscraper exterior as you concentrate on the farm.
I think it is worth to consider. That way, we keep the spawn as is, we get a new exterior look for the n00b hotel, and we get another "seen from space" wonder.

spankythehippo

11-04-2013, 13:25

I always wanted to redo the exterior on the n00b hotel ever since TinCow said he didn't mind if someone undertook such a project. I have been thinking of a Empire State building look for it... As you can see in the last image I provided, the current n00b hotel only fills a quarter of the required 45x45 foot print of the iron farm.

We could envelope the current n00b hotel in a corner of the new super scraper. I could help building the skyscraper exterior as you concentrate on the farm.
I think it is worth to consider. That way, we keep the spawn as is, we get a new exterior look for the n00b hotel, and we get another "seen from space" wonder.

Yup, I'm in favour. However, the spawn chunks would need to be verified before any construction is to be done. Also, the skyscraper would need to be as wide and long, if not wider and longer, as the iron farm, otherwise it would look odd. I'm thinking of a downtown New York-y hotel.

http://www.hotelchatter.com/files/3/tribeca_grand_ny.png

Also, I'm very clumsy, so construction might be slow. This is the aftermath of my incompetence today.

https://img46.imageshack.us/img46/6379/8atx.png

I lost quite a bit (1 very, VERY, VERY powerful diamond sword, 12 diamond tools and a buttload of resources). If I can't get replacement tools before the 21st, then I'll have to delay construction. With my recent rate of finding diamonds, it might take a while.

Sigurd

11-04-2013, 13:44

Yup, I'm in favour. However, the spawn chunks would need to be verified before any construction is to be done. Also, the skyscraper would need to be as wide and long, if not wider and longer, as the iron farm, otherwise it would look odd. I'm thinking of a downtown New York-y hotel.

Also, I'm very clumsy, so construction might be slow. This is the aftermath of my incompetence today.

https://img46.imageshack.us/img46/6379/8atx.png

I lost quite a bit (1 very, VERY, VERY powerful diamond sword, 12 diamond tools and a buttload of resources). If I can't get replacement tools before the 21st, then I'll have to delay construction. With my recent rate of finding diamonds, it might take a while.

LOL...

No worries M8... I think the farm should be complete before covering it up with the exterior.

We should probably survey the area... take measurements and find out exactly where the center of the farm should be (at the corner outside n00b hotel). But if it needs open sky on top... it should probably be quite high up (and that leaves any fancy spire design not possible). The timer + iron silo + nether portal could be as high as above the n00b hotel. I also saw in the youtube that you need the timer working before chaining the villages and finishing the farm... that you have a 7 hour window when filling up the timer mechanism unless you keep filling it up. My guess is that when the iron starts dropping.. this need is obsolete.

Sigurd

11-04-2013, 14:04

BSmith

11-04-2013, 14:41

I am all for this project, as long as we can keep it pretty and not an eyesore in the city. (and also not cause much lag).

The actual interior space of the current Noob hotel is plenty for its needs. We will have a ton of extra space in this building, which I think would be put to good use making other factories, with chests all in one central location for retrieval of the items.

We should also build the empire state building out of iron blocks. Only seems appropriate. :yes:

I like the latest proposal on location as it does fit into an existing block.

Beskar

11-04-2013, 14:56

I lost quite a bit (1 very, VERY, VERY powerful diamond sword, 12 diamond tools and a buttload of resources). If I can't get replacement tools before the 21st, then I'll have to delay construction. With my recent rate of finding diamonds, it might take a while.

I think I still have some diamonds in my chest, feel free to use what you need. Go to the bunker next to the tavern, I think it is bottom left chest next to the portal. spankythehippo

Sigurd

11-04-2013, 16:14

Alright... I am stuck in a loop.
I went to the endfarm to fix my bow, and since I had just spent a /home I opted to return via the endportal. But I can't get out. Pressing ESC in the credits returns me to a weird mini end, without endermen and the void just a few paces around the end portal (return portal). I can't send messages or activate the /home command. logging out and back in again drops me into the end portal and to again view of the INSANELY long credits. Watched all the credits once, but it drops me back into the end again.

I can't get out!!! and I have too many precious tools on my to simply walk out into the void.

Beskar

11-04-2013, 18:07

I can't get out!!! and I have too many precious tools on my to simply walk out into the void.

If I still have some op powers, I will use the tp command to get you out. But I think in the shift over to bukkit, TinCow disabled them so it might be best for him to do it.

Beskar

11-04-2013, 18:11

Sigurd I just tested, let me know when you are online and I will teleport you away.

Beskar

11-04-2013, 19:27

With the help of therother, we managed to do it!

spankythehippo

11-05-2013, 02:48

Alright.. last map image.

Maybe a more rectangular base with the center of the iron farm indicated in green and the farm foot print in red?
It fits into a existing city block.

https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y230/asleka/Skyscraperbase2_zps35a17db5.png%7Eoriginal

I don't know... we need to find the limits of covering up the farm. He mentioned in the video that it could be built under ground, but that you needed to know which part needs sky access. The base in the image would be a perfect Empire State building base, provided that you could finish off the top with a spire.

https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y230/asleka/Empirestate_zps8cc11f29.jpg%7Eoriginal

I'm actually trying to avoid building it underground, because existing doors/new doors can ruin the village chaining. If I build it at the maximum build height, there will be little chance of a wooden door interfering with the farm.

I am all for this project, as long as we can keep it pretty and not an eyesore in the city. (and also not cause much lag).

The actual interior space of the current Noob hotel is plenty for its needs. We will have a ton of extra space in this building, which I think would be put to good use making other factories, with chests all in one central location for retrieval of the items.

We should also build the empire state building out of iron blocks. Only seems appropriate. :yes:

I like the latest proposal on location as it does fit into an existing block.

I'd like the interior of the Empire State Building to be made out of iron. The outside will portray only grandeur and class, and the interior will be space age-y and modern. What do you guys think? We can worry about all this stuff later, though.

I am planning on building a sugarcane factory in either the absolute top left of the grid (or the one to the right of it)

https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y230/asleka/SpawnchunksOrgServer_zps48087953.png%7Eoriginal

Something like this.

http://images.wisegeek.com/factory.jpg

I have 4 sugarcane farms that work very effectively, but only when I'm logged in. Otherwise, it does nothing (since it's not in the spawn chunks). After the 21st, I'm going to be very active on the server, so the Iron Farm will be finished as soon as possible, and I want to get started on this factory. Any pointers/criticisms/suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

I think I still have some diamonds in my chest, feel free to use what you need. Go to the bunker next to the tavern, I think it is bottom left chest next to the portal. @spankythehippo (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=95012)

I appreciate the offer, but I'm the type of person that offers help to others, and doesn't want help back (just the way I was raised, I guess). My loss was the result of my own stupidity and clumsiness, so I should be the one to pick up the scraps and start again. It won't take me long. And if it does, then I have a ton of podcasts to catch up on.

Sigurd

11-05-2013, 10:18

I'm actually trying to avoid building it underground, because existing doors/new doors can ruin the village chaining. If I build it at the maximum build height, there will be little chance of a wooden door interfering with the farm.

Yes... I was not suggesting to build it under street level, I was more indicating the possibility to completely encase the farm at a certain height... say y:200, to leave room for a structure on top i.e. a spire.
I am guessing that you'll soon find out if the doors in near structures interfere with the farm and we should probably keep doors to a minimum internally in the scraper :sneaky:

spankythehippo

11-05-2013, 12:43

Yes... I was not suggesting to build it under street level, I was more indicating the possibility to completely encase the farm at a certain height... say y:200, to leave room for a structure on top i.e. a spire.
I am guessing that you'll soon find out if the doors in near structures interfere with the farm and we should probably keep doors to a minimum internally in the scraper :sneaky:

Bear in mind that the glass used in this farm needs to have unobstructed sky access.

Sigurd

11-05-2013, 15:09

Bear in mind that the glass used in this farm needs to have unobstructed sky access.
Shouldn't be a problem... There should be at least the 19x19 iron golem spawn area that could be a foot print of a spire.

Nigel

11-05-2013, 18:52

I am planning on building a sugarcane factory in either the absolute top left of the grid (or the one to the right of it)

Something like this.

http://images.wisegeek.com/factory.jpg

Isn't that building located near Battersea Park, London?

I like the suggestions here and and all the discussion and effort to make the new buildings fit well into the picture of our city centre :2thumbsup:

TinCow

11-06-2013, 00:33

Sorry about that portal issue. I have a feeling it's a problem with the MyWorlds plugin. There are various ways around it, but it seems a bit pointless to try and fix it given that the mod itself has to be upgraded when 1.7 comes out. Until then, just use home to get back from the end. I doubt it will be much longer before Bukkit 1.7 is out.

For the Iron Farm situation, another option would be to use another world to store the thing. I can set the spawn chunks in any additional world to be loaded just like they are in the main world. If you want, I could make a small permanent world just for the Iron Farm and leave it loaded. We could then put a portal to it anyplace in the City, thus providing easy and permanent access to the farm without having to fit it into the existing spawn area. That said, if you can fit it in without it looking like crap, that's fine too.

BSmith

11-06-2013, 01:01

Factoryworld!

spankythehippo

11-06-2013, 03:14

For the Iron Farm situation, another option would be to use another world to store the thing. I can set the spawn chunks in any additional world to be loaded just like they are in the main world. If you want, I could make a small permanent world just for the Iron Farm and leave it loaded. We could then put a portal to it anyplace in the City, thus providing easy and permanent access to the farm without having to fit it into the existing spawn area. That said, if you can fit it in without it looking like crap, that's fine too.

If a separate world is really no problem, then I wouldn't mind building all the automated factories there, although I do want to build the sugarcane factory for cosmetic reasons too. If a separate world is created, are you going to make it superflat or natural?

I'm really unsure about which way to go. If a separate world is created, then I can make the storage silo as big as can be, and not worry about the look of it. But having it in the Overworld gives a sense of... cosiness, for lack of a better term. And it's kind of a challenge to take this contraption and beautify it by encasing it with a gargantuan building.

Honestly, I'd rather not have a say. I'm totally fine with building it anywhere.

Ishmael

11-06-2013, 09:02

TinCow, does your automatic Wither crusher still exist? And if so, would you mind if I use it?

Sigurd

11-06-2013, 11:39

TinCow

11-06-2013, 12:42

If a separate world is really no problem, then I wouldn't mind building all the automated factories there, although I do want to build the sugarcane factory for cosmetic reasons too. If a separate world is created, are you going to make it superflat or natural?

I'm really unsure about which way to go. If a separate world is created, then I can make the storage silo as big as can be, and not worry about the look of it. But having it in the Overworld gives a sense of... cosiness, for lack of a better term. And it's kind of a challenge to take this contraption and beautify it by encasing it with a gargantuan building.

Honestly, I'd rather not have a say. I'm totally fine with building it anywhere.

I agree that it would be cooler and more impressive if it could be incorporated into the main world, but I do not know enough about it to render an opinion as to whether that is possible.

@TinCow (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=6193), does your automatic Wither crusher still exist? And if so, would you mind if I use it?

Yep, the entrance is from my workshop. I cleaned it up a lot and added auto-regenerating curtain walls to contain the damage.

Sigurd

11-06-2013, 14:57

Alright, I couldn't let it go. It's like blood scent for a great white, I guess.

Tested the farm on a creative world. Started building the farm at 192 height. I would recommend maybe a few blocks higher.
Roof of the doors ended up at 198. Added a second roof on top of the golem spawn which is 2 blocks over the villagers captured in the corners. The spire goes all the way to the max build height.

https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y230/asleka/2013-11-06_143144_zpsd9aa45a2.png~original

This structure would favour a box roof before making the spire structure. But I think we are at the right height here proportional wise as the main spire structure (cylinder) needs to be longer.

As you can see the farm takes very little vertical space. It takes only a very thin belt of the length of the scraper. Which is ideal for a empire state kind of building, which needs an indented center of the main structure down to the rectangular base.

https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y230/asleka/2013-11-06_143203_zpsdb323da3.png~original

From the ground.

https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y230/asleka/2013-11-06_143329_zpsfa2f5f95.png~original

As you can see there are two quite large open squares at the north east and the south west corner. Which could be roof access to the scraper. We should probably contain the visitors to those corners. :beam:

https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y230/asleka/2013-11-06_153256_zpsac4bb9a1.png~original

Yeah... I used yellow stained glass. :sneaky: I am really looking forward to the 1.7 update. Stained glass is one of those things that mincraft sorely lacked.

https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y230/asleka/2013-11-06_155312_zps9b5def08.png~original

Ishmael

11-06-2013, 15:05

Yep, the entrance is from my workshop. I cleaned it up a lot and added auto-regenerating curtain walls to contain the damage.

Well, that could have gone better. I was apparently too tardy in flipping the crusher lever, and so the Wither managed to get out of its bedrock indentation. After three deaths I conceded the melee approach wasn't going anywhere and sent in some iron golems which managed to kill it - two survived and are now wandering the spawning chamber. Your self-repairing walls really paid off here :beam:.

TinCow

11-06-2013, 18:34

Well, that could have gone better. I was apparently too tardy in flipping the crusher lever, and so the Wither managed to get out of its bedrock indentation. After three deaths I conceded the melee approach wasn't going anywhere and sent in some iron golems which managed to kill it - two survived and are now wandering the spawning chamber. Your self-repairing walls really paid off here :beam:.

I'm glad it worked out ok. Was there any damage to the mechanism?

FWIW, therother and I killed a 'free range' Wither once without much difficulty. We used fully enchanted diamond armor, heavily enchanted bows, and chugged a few potions before we spawned it. I think the thing died in about 30-45 seconds. So, it's very doable if you have the right kit.

Ishmael

11-06-2013, 22:49

I'm glad it worked out ok. Was there any damage to the mechanism?

FWIW, therother and I killed a 'free range' Wither once without much difficulty. We used fully enchanted diamond armor, heavily enchanted bows, and chugged a few potions before we spawned it. I think the thing died in about 30-45 seconds. So, it's very doable if you have the right kit.

The mechanism didn't seem to be working properly afterwards, so you might want to check that out. It definitely is possible to kill it manually if you're prepared - I took it down to nearly half health with my enchanted diamond armour and sword - but once I had to come back in with iron, it was killing me and regenerating faster than I could damage it. It gave BSmith (who was online at the time) some good entertainment, though.

TinCow

11-08-2013, 14:36

I've got a 4 day weekend coming up which would be ideal for the upgrade and map editing. Let's hope that Bukkit get their version out soon.

spankythehippo

11-09-2013, 09:06

Also, I've added a clock to the Mob Grinder, so that the switch doesn't have to be constantly turned on and off. I also added hoppers in the death area, so all the crap can accumulate in the chest. I have yet to test the efficiency over a long period, but I did get a decent amount in about half an hour.

Sigurd

11-09-2013, 11:30

I've got a 4 day weekend coming up which would be ideal for the upgrade and map editing. Let's hope that Bukkit get their version out soon.
Give me a heads up if you are going to remove any land around my castle. I have a four stack pyramid beacon under the jungle on the east side of my castle (to speed up the cobble gathering).

TinCow

11-09-2013, 14:15

Give me a heads up if you are going to remove any land around my castle. I have a four stack pyramid beacon under the jungle on the east side of my castle (to speed up the cobble gathering).

I will remove some to the north, largely attempting to conform to that river at the border of the jungle area. Regardless, I shall not be deleting any of the jungle biome, so anything under there should be safe.

TinCow

11-10-2013, 13:56

Recent Bukkit announcement:

Since Minecraft 1.7.2 was released on October 25th we've been working hard towards a CraftBukkit for Minecraft 1.7.2. As we're working with the Minecraft code base which we have no control over, there is no reliable way to determine a communicable ETA until all the work on the update is actually completed.

Rest assured, we have been hard at work on the update since it came out and are continuing to push towards our first (unsupported) development build.

Thanks for your patience and continued support,
EvilSeph
- on behalf of the Bukkit Team

This has certainly been one of the slowest Bukkit updates I can remember.

Beskar

11-10-2013, 18:35

I thought Minecraft was integrating bukkit back in like patch 1.4 or so, or did they scrap that idea entirely.

TinCow

11-11-2013, 13:16

I thought Minecraft was integrating bukkit back in like patch 1.4 or so, or did they scrap that idea entirely.

That was the plan, but it hasn't happened yet. Apparently the process was a lot more complex than they ever imagined. I know that the new launcher and texture pack system introduced in one of the more recent updates (1.6?) was a step that was a prerequisite before implementation of the integrated API system. However, I have not heard any ETA for internalization of the modding system in a long, long time.

Nigel

11-16-2013, 18:45

I don't know who built it, but there is now a very nice looking pavillion in the city centre.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=11268&d=1384623819

Orgcraft is getting ready to host the World Exhibition 2014 :clown:

newO_ajniN

11-17-2013, 08:25

I don't know who built it, but there is now a very nice looking pavillion in the city centre.

My son (Gondor_is_Lost) and I (newO_ajniN) are building it. It is suppose to be a strange geometric house with a grand ceiling, but having a city center pavilion doesn't sound like a bad idea either. Maybe I'll have to build another that is a bit bigger. :)

Sigurd

11-17-2013, 11:53

I like the full rigger outside bsmith's farm. With the canons it becomes a ship of the line. It needs a few jibs though to complement the mizzen that is put on it.

BSmith

11-17-2013, 12:58

It will. ;) The cannons will also be fully functional with the ability to fire a broadside on either side.

I also am wanting to use some of the new blocks in 1.7 for some aspects as well. This is still very much a work in progress.

TinCow

11-17-2013, 13:51

Here's the latest Bukkit news release on the status of 1.7.2:
http://forums.bukkit.org/threads/more-information-on-the-minecraft-1-7-2-update.195138/

It's very long, so not going to paste the full text.

spankythehippo

11-21-2013, 13:32

So, I can get started on the Iron Farm whenever. There are 2 issues, though.

1) Where do I put this thing? Has it been finalised whether this will have a separate world, or should I build it in the heart of the city?

2) Since TreeAssist is disabled, getting doors is going to be difficult. The best option is to recycle the doors from the previous Iron Farm, but that'll take a while to transport. Nevertheless, this is necessary if I start it right away. Not so much an issue, more of a hindrance.

So, I was thinking about this a lot. What if the entire spawn area was terraformed, and the Empire State Iron Farm built on that?

https://imageshack.com/a/img855/22/bu0m.jpg

BSmith

11-21-2013, 15:07

I think in the city is the best, encased in the empire state building with the lobby being the central spawn/new Noob hotel.

TinCow

11-21-2013, 15:40

For the record, I can move the default server spawn location anywhere I want. I think it should still remain in the general vicinity of the center of the map, but if someone built a nice place to spawn nearby or in the city, I could easily relocate it there. I don't think moving it in that way impacts which chunks are always loaded, so it could be used to avoid any conflicts between an Iron Farm building and the spawn point.

Sigurd

11-21-2013, 17:48

spankythehippo

11-22-2013, 03:53

https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y230/asleka/bu0m_zps6dae04f1.jpg~original
I think the empire building might need this much space... If you put the block tower that leads to the base of the farm smack in the middle of the yellow rectangle, we could build the skyscraper around it.

Which would mean the noob hotel would need to be knocked down. If TC is cool with that, then I have no problem.

So, TC, do we have your blessing to knock the noob hotel down?

Sigurd

11-22-2013, 10:49

TinCow

11-22-2013, 14:42

Which would mean the noob hotel would need to be knocked down. If TC is cool with that, then I have no problem.

So, TC, do we have your blessing to knock the noob hotel down?

We don't knock it down... We incorporate it into the building (build around it). We might need to relocate the entrance to the east side though.
Yes it will get a new facade, but I think we can keep the interior as is.

I do not care whether you knock it down and rebuild it or simply remodel it. The building definitely does not stand up to the construction quality of the rest of the city, so improvements to make it mesh with the city would be nice. Even the rail station underneath it is no longer necessary, since I built a direct line from the City Station to the Arena, so the Noob Hotel station is kind of isolated now on a shunt line that could be disposed of without any real loss to the system. One advantage of creating a new noob hotel would be that we could install more facilities for the noobs. We could add some basic automated facilities for them, like auto-harvesting melon farms for food, cobble/smooth stone generators, etc.

Another useful building for the city would be an XP farm. The kind I use in my lair could easily be built in the city without difficulty, and it could be encased in a tower structure of its own. Building a free-standing version, instead of embedding it in an existing structure like at my lair, would also give me the ability to cram some more spawners into the thing. The one at my place runs with 9 spawners. I could easily ramp it up to 12 spawners with a purpose-built structure, and I've got some theoretical designs in my head that could get it working with 16 or possibly 24 spawners, though I'd have to do some design sketches to figure that out for sure. I think that if I was able to hit 16+ spawners the thing would be even faster for XP than the end farm, while also providing more useful loot drops.

BSmith

11-22-2013, 15:16

I have a few spawners that could be contributed to the cause.

Tamur

11-22-2013, 15:19

Speaking as a relatively new newb, if we're going for a rebuild there are some changes I'd suggest on a take-it-or-leave-it basis.

- easy to find from spawn (someone had to lead me to it when I started)
- less spirals (while the stairs are impressive, the dizzy factor made me want to leave the nest asap)
- smaller (it's strange as a noob to be in a very large mostly empty building)
- concentrated help areas (having the enchanting table and the starting-items chests, etc at least on the same floor)

Won't be at all offended if none of these are incorporated, but they'd be nice.

TinCow

11-22-2013, 16:26

Speaking as a relatively new newb, if we're going for a rebuild there are some changes I'd suggest on a take-it-or-leave-it basis.

- easy to find from spawn (someone had to lead me to it when I started)

The easiest thing to do would actually be to move the server spawn point into the lobby of the noob hotel, wherever it is built.

- smaller (it's strange as a noob to be in a very large mostly empty building)

The size is mostly because of the rooms provided to give people places to live and store their stuff. I suppose that multiple private beds and rooms aren't really needed, and we could simply make do with private storage without an actual hotel-style room system.

- concentrated help areas (having the enchanting table and the starting-items chests, etc at least on the same floor)

When I built it, all starting items, enchanting, and smelting were on the same floor. If they aren't now then someone has moved them. I agree that all of that stuff should be in one place.

Nigel

11-22-2013, 18:06

One advantage of creating a new noob hotel would be ....

hehe, if I recall correclty, that would make it Noob Hotel No. 3
Good, we are evolving.

... more facilities for the noobs. We could add some basic automated facilities for them, like auto-harvesting melon farms for food, cobble/smooth stone generators, etc.
Another useful building for the city would be an XP farm.

One thing to consider:
I enjoyed it a lot when, in my first days, I had to go out and break a branch with my bare hands, then make some wood tools to mine some stone then make some stone tools to mine some iron ... you get it, the joy of developing yourself.

Some may feel it a bit like an anticlimax if everyting is there in abundance right from the start. So perhaps we can leave some basic starting tools at easy access for new players and have the more advanced farms on the higher levels - not so obvious to find for the non-initiated. That would leave the fun of discovery to the newcomers, while giving easy access to resources for those "oldies" who just want to stock up quickly.

Just a thought.

Tamur

11-22-2013, 20:35

Half a stack of coal starting out is truly a life-saver. But a lot of the fun here is, as Nigel said, survival. It's one of the very few servers I've been on that actually feels like Minecraft.

Also, "nature" isn't too far outside town (unlike other servers where you have to warp to another world, or run for a day & a half) so newbs can easily run for a bit and start digging/chopping/hacking to build up resources.

BSmith

11-22-2013, 21:02

I am all for remodeling the hotel. I visited it again today and it does seem to have a lot of wasted space. We could probably get more rooms per floor and that would help a little with the amount some players have to go up and down stairs. I like the idea of individual rooms, so would prefer we keep that instead of going to common area storage, etc.

We could also build an automatic furnace instead of the wall of furnaces. One chest for input, one for output and one for fuel. I have one at my farm if anyone wants to take a look.

And I am all for some auto melon farms for easy food production in the hotel. While there is a ton of food there now (I even brought some more today), it would be nice to not have to worry about restocking it.

spankythehippo

11-26-2013, 09:02

I think the doors in it are far enough away if you start building at y:195

Should the spawning platform be on this level or the collection point?

Sigurd

11-26-2013, 10:53

Should the spawning platform be on this level or the collection point?
This would be the point where you start the first golem spawning floor. the collection point could be near the base of the structure (ground level).
Depending on how you plan to collect and deposit the iron, the collection point could be anywhere in the center of the building. We just encapsulate it as a restricted access area. There are many nether portals in the area, so a careful placement of the farm portal on the nether side is needed - the portal in the nether also needs to be restricted access.

The scraper needs an immense amount of resources. If we want to build it in smooth stone (my preferred material for such), we should probably put a few beacons under it and excavate sub floors.
https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y230/asleka/Looking_Up_at_Empire_State_Building_zps94b259b8.jpg~original

We could find a plug in which could enable a generator to make blocks collectable ala piston chest (but not too extravagant - simple as possible).
The base or close to the base needs a large workshop for making/preparing building materials. (glass, stone, etc...)

edit:
I have been playing a little Tekkit lately, and wish vanilla minecraft would incorporate some of neat things you find there. Space exploration, bionic suits anyone?
It's like I am stuck in the medieval era while on the server. :beam:

Nigel

11-26-2013, 11:11

Whow, that picture is amazing.
I guess we will need to have the mineworld for some time in order to collect enough sand to make all the glass needed it.
Or just make it manually via the cobblestone -> gravel -> sand route.

Meanwhile I am working on a small little side project to clear out the floating trees in the harbour area, that were left over from the Giant Cube. It is quite an adventure of artistic scaffolding and tightrope walking.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=11325&d=1385460601

I have taken a plunge noumerous times - just 1 death so far.
But the view over the city is spectacular from up here (if only my PC could handle a higher render distance).

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=11324&d=1385460601

spankythehippo

11-26-2013, 13:47

This would be the point where you start the first golem spawning floor. the collection point could be near the base of the structure (ground level).
Depending on how you plan to collect and deposit the iron, the collection point could be anywhere in the center of the building. We just encapsulate it as a restricted access area. There are many nether portals in the area, so a careful placement of the farm portal on the nether side is needed - the portal in the nether also needs to be restricted access.

The scraper needs an immense amount of resources. If we want to build it in smooth stone (my preferred material for such), we should probably put a few beacons under it and excavate sub floors.
https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y230/asleka/Looking_Up_at_Empire_State_Building_zps94b259b8.jpg~original

We could find a plug in which could enable a generator to make blocks collectable ala piston chest (but not too extravagant - simple as possible).
The base or close to the base needs a large workshop for making/preparing building materials. (glass, stone, etc...)

edit:
I have been playing a little Tekkit lately, and wish vanilla minecraft would incorporate some of neat things you find there. Space exploration, bionic suits anyone?
It's like I am stuck in the medieval era while on the server. :beam:

I was thinking of keeping the collection point (i.e. where the hoppers/Nether Portal are) as close to the spawning platform as possible. With the amount of iron produced, I could then build a silo that extends all the way to the bottom via piggybacked hoppers and chests. That way, I wouldn't have to build an item elevator. The centre of the scraper will be solid to house the chests. With some clever placement of iron doors and decorative crap, the massive slab of stone in the middle could be made to look like an elevator (which doesn't work, of course). If I recall correctly, there isn't a Nether Portal in the immediate vicinity. The closest would the one outside Diain's castle.

I have about 7 double chests of sand. I can also make about 8 double chests of smooth stone. So yeah, we might need a bit more.

With some rough calculations, we can gauge how much stone we need.

Farm is 45 x 45 (I think). Let's say that the building itself will be 90 x 90.

90 x 90 = 360 block perimeter per meter of altitude.

360 x 131(rough height of the building)= 47160 blocks

8 double chests equates to 32768. Yeah, a bit more mining and we should be fine. I'd say another 4-5 double chests would do it.

Are there any other materials we need to stock up on besides stone and glass?

I might build an industrial furnace in the area. I'll try and put it in a convenient location so it might be permanent.

Meanwhile I am working on a small little side project to clear out the floating trees in the harbour area, that were left over from the Giant Cube. It is quite an adventure of artistic scaffolding and tightrope walking.

Dang, part of me wanted the trees to stay. But it would be stupid to leave them there.

Nigel

11-26-2013, 14:20

Meanwhile I am working on a small little side project to clear out the floating trees in the harbour area, that were left over from the Giant Cube. It is quite an adventure of artistic scaffolding and tightrope walking.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=11325&d=1385460601

Dang, part of me wanted the trees to stay. But it would be stupid to leave them there.

Actually, Spanky, I have been having similar sentiments, as I was climbing among those trees up there. They are - after all - a real wonder of nature (or a real wonder of gardening art perhaps).

But if we really want to have a harbour in that area, they will be totally out of place there.
So perhaps the next project could be to find a suitable (air)space and re-plant them at a better location.
In any case, I am keeping the wood, apples and saplings from them in a chest at the bottom of the scaffold.

BSmith

11-26-2013, 15:33

I have close.to a double chest of stone at my farm and can make some more relatively easily. Can't play until next week though, so if you need it before then feel free to go get it.

Sigurd

11-26-2013, 16:04

I was thinking of keeping the collection point (i.e. where the hoppers/Nether Portal are) as close to the spawning platform as possible. With the amount of iron produced, I could then build a silo that extends all the way to the bottom via piggybacked hoppers and chests. That way, I wouldn't have to build an item elevator. The centre of the scraper will be solid to house the chests. With some clever placement of iron doors and decorative crap, the massive slab of stone in the middle could be made to look like an elevator (which doesn't work, of course). If I recall correctly, there isn't a Nether Portal in the immediate vicinity. The closest would the one outside Diain's castle.

The shaft that the iron golems fall through could be as long as the scraper.. Just saying.
I have had problems with nether portals being too close and mixing up the transitions. You go into one and come out a different one than you are supposed to.
Careful placement will negate this.

I have about 7 double chests of sand. I can also make about 8 double chests of smooth stone. So yeah, we might need a bit more.
With some rough calculations, we can gauge how much stone we need.
Farm is 45 x 45 (I think). Let's say that the building itself will be 90 x 90.
90 x 90 = 360 block perimeter per meter of altitude.
360 x 131(rough height of the building)= 47160 blocks
8 double chests equates to 32768. Yeah, a bit more mining and we should be fine. I'd say another 4-5 double chests would do it.

Not sure how much is needed of glass and stone... but "a lot" is probably a fair estimate :beam:

Are there any other materials we need to stock up on besides stone and glass?
I might build an industrial furnace in the area. I'll try and put it in a convenient location so it might be permanent.

We would need a little bit of iron (duh) and quartz for ornamental parts.

I have been working on a design for the scraper... And I would imagine this close to what we can get according to the restrictions of the farm on top.
The spire might need some work.. maybe lowering the top windows a bit to make the design work better.
The number of glass panes pr floor could be extended. In the picture it is about 4 panes vertical pr floor.

https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y230/asleka/2013-11-26_153707_zps3a5f64da.png~original

Which would be the top part of the original:

https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y230/asleka/Empire-State-Building-Pics_zps501f41c6.jpg~original

Makrell

11-26-2013, 18:39

TinCow

11-26-2013, 19:06

Can i get whitelisted?

Ive played tons of minecraft before, all of it on the twc server(now minecraftcenter) Since alpha after the halloween update, love the game, would love to org it up a bit.

Im a shipbuilder by trade.

Certainly. What's your game name?

Nigel

11-26-2013, 19:15

As I was wandering around the lands today, I found a riderless horse near the area of Csargo's Gate.

She is a real beauty - yellow coloured, two rows of hearts strong and fully saddled up and with golden armour.
Far too valuable to be left just wandering around.

I have taken her to the communal stables behind the Central Station / Space Needle and placed a note saying that she is looking for her rightful owner. Whoever has lost her, can go and pick her up there.

And of course: Wellcome Makrell :clown:

BSmith

11-26-2013, 19:29

spankythehippo

11-27-2013, 00:31

The shaft that the iron golems fall through could be as long as the scraper.. Just saying.

Yeah, I thought about that, but if the piggybacked hopper chests are used, the iron can slink its way all the way down to ground level. It would require a lot more iron, so this would need to be done when the farm is fully operational.

Not sure how much is needed of glass and stone... but "a lot" is probably a fair estimate :beam:

Yeah, that calculation did not factor in how much stone is needed for the floor. It was only for the skeleton of the structure. The floor is gonna be the biggest consumer of stone.

We would need a little bit of iron (duh) and quartz for ornamental parts.

Quartz... damn. I barely have any of that stuff.

I have been working on a design for the scraper... And I would imagine this close to what we can get according to the restrictions of the farm on top.
The spire might need some work.. maybe lowering the top windows a bit to make the design work better.
The number of glass panes pr floor could be extended. In the picture it is about 4 panes vertical pr floor.

https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y230/asleka/2013-11-26_153707_zps3a5f64da.png~original

Which would be the top part of the original:

https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y230/asleka/Empire-State-Building-Pics_zps501f41c6.jpg~original

The design looks good. Does the spire go all the way up the the height limit?

TinCow

11-27-2013, 01:50

The design looks good. Does the spire go all the way up the the height limit?

It looks so good I'll have to stop playing EU4 to help with it.

FYI, I'm out of town from tomorrow through next Monday. So, if the Bukkit update comes out in that time I'm not going to be able to install it.

Sigurd

11-27-2013, 11:38

Yeah... we might need a few hands to help assemble this thing. It is quite tedious and repetitive. :beam: edit: Yeah the spire goes all the way to the max build height.

Update on design:
The lowest tier in the image is the main body of the scraper (should be quite long), but we have only about 145 block height to work on. There is supposed to be another tier closer to the bottom before the base structure which is a larger rectangular structure and might take all the space outlined on the last map suggestions.
https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y230/asleka/2013-11-27_112241_zps0a1e2ab2.png~original
Looking up.
https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y230/asleka/2013-11-27_112318_zps076bd675.png~original
Closer look at the design.
https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y230/asleka/2013-11-27_112342_zpsf2f1a0dd.png~original

Makrell

11-27-2013, 11:41

Certainly. What's your game name?

Makrell92

TinCow

11-27-2013, 14:30

Makrell92

You are now whitelisted.

Sigurd

11-27-2013, 17:16

I have taken a few measurements...

The area in the red rectangle in the image is 81x52 blocks
https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y230/asleka/2013-11-2717_03_28-Orgserver_zps300fb108.png~original
So far the design I am making takes 73x65 blocks.... which needless to say will be too big for the area chosen. I have placed a pink cross on the exact middle spot of the proposed area. I don't think the structure can grow more towards the main road to the arena.
The only expansion possible is over the current spawn and towards dain's castle entrance/train station.

What do you guys think? I will need to fine calculate how big the foot print needs too look good, but we might experience a serious growth towards those areas. And we need to place the exact center of the building for the farm.

Beskar

11-27-2013, 17:24

Remember, they said about destroying the old spawn area, so moving closer to the Arena is possible, Sigurd!

Makrell

11-27-2013, 20:46

got on, went out a building, found a chest with stuff, were they free? it stod thanks tincow on a sign next to it?

BSmith

11-28-2013, 00:17

Not sure offhand. There is free stuff in the noob hotel just east of the spawn. Other chests in town (by the town hall) have building materials that can be used for town improvements.

Makrell

11-28-2013, 10:16

lol, found the noob hotel, just had to take the railstaion, and it is even visible form spawn :D

Sigurd

11-28-2013, 14:06

I think I have figured out how best to proceed with the farm "cloak".

We need a slimmer version of the building as it looked ridiculous with the current width. (was about 1/3 of the length it needs to resemble the original). But the 45x45 farm does pose a challenge as it is quite big for a roof.

This is what I have come up with and placed on the server - check the map (in blocks):
Farm coating : 47x47 (purple)
Ledge & top floor : 49x49 (pink)
First tier: 53x53 (blue)
Second tier 57x57 (pink)
(optional) Corner tiers 61x61 (blue)
Base structure 81x67 (purple)
Property size : 81x77 (red)

How will the building look like?:

Property - red rectangle (will be plazafied)
Base structure - purple
Third tiers - green
Second tier - pink
First tier - turquise
Top tier and farm - image

https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y230/asleka/EmpirestatebuildingOrgServer2_zpsf2117322.png~original
started with new measurements.
https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y230/asleka/2013-11-28_163241_zps2339ab6a.png~original

Ishmael

11-28-2013, 22:46

Looks great to me. I'll be happy to assist whenever construction starts. Would you have an order of magnitude estimate for the materials requirements?

Sigurd

11-29-2013, 01:01

Looks great to me. I'll be happy to assist whenever construction starts. Would you have an order of magnitude estimate for the materials requirements?
Well... we need a crap load of glass and smooth stone.
I have used stained glass which require ink sacks. (light gray and black stained glass)
About 10 stacks of nether quartz blocks - mostly used as stairs for decoration.

But the farm will be built first and we could perhaps incorporate some iron blocks into the design (instead of the half slabs?).

newO_ajniN

11-30-2013, 15:50

As I was wandering around the lands today, I found a riderless horse near the area of Csargo's Gate.

I was having a problem where they were pushing through my fence. I lost a few and took this one back - thanks. The others are up for grabs if they are found.

TinCow

12-01-2013, 00:18

The server appears to be down and I am having issues trying to reboot it through iOS. I have opened a support ticket.

BSmith

12-02-2013, 16:25

I take it things are still down?

Tamur

12-02-2013, 16:39

Appears so...

TinCow

12-02-2013, 23:42

I am home now and will start pursuing this as aggressively as I can. I really hope we don't end up with another problem host situation, these guys were so good up until this point.

newO_ajniN

12-03-2013, 02:51

I am home now and will start pursuing this as aggressively as I can. I really hope we don't end up with another problem host situation, these guys were so good up until this point.

Thanks in advance for all of your effort. This server is a blast

TinCow

12-04-2013, 15:47

An update: things are not looking good. The server remains offline, the remote control panel remains offline, and I cannot connect via FTP. No one has responded to my support ticket. I have sent emails to 3 separate accounts, two of which used to respond very promptly to my questions/problems, but no one has responded to those either. There are backups of the server, but they are with the hosting company and I cannot access them with the entire system offline and no one responding to me.

Tamur

12-04-2013, 17:16

Thanks for the update... major bummer. Would it help if we all bombarded them? Probably not. Wish there were something we could do to help fix this!

BSmith

12-05-2013, 16:12

Did the company go out of business or something? What happens if the files are not recoverable? Do we find a new host and do a fresh start?

TinCow

12-05-2013, 16:33

Actually managed to get in touch with someone, though the fact that he contacted me about hosting somewhere other than Qoozio was a worrying start to the conversation. It's not looking good, but I'm holding out a sliver of hope that our world isn't toast. Here's the relevant conversation:

Hello,

Are you still hosting your minecraft server? Are you interested in getting affordable and at the same time reliable, with quick support hosting from someone else?

We at UniqueCraft rent our own hardware in Germany and have unallocated space on the node. We are convinced in that we will be able to provide you something cheaper and at the same time as reliable service as you had before. If you are interested, then please reply to my email and I will see if I will be able to get you more affordable offer depending on your requirements.

Sincerely,
[redacted].

Are you the same person ([redacted]) who helped me with tech
support issues at Qoozio previously?

Hello, Yes, I am.

Well, if you can help me recover my world save from Qoozio, I'll
certainly consider hosting with you. My server has been offline for
about a week, the control panel is also offline, and FTP won't
connect. As such I cannot even retrieve my world save to move to
another host. No one is answering my support ticket or any emails
I've sent. Do you have any way of getting me in touch with someone
who can help me? Do you know what's going on over there?

Do you remember your IP address?We are experiencing some difficulties with our hardware and I bet all data will be lost.

The IP is 176.31.100.30

I am afraid this server doesn't respond to pings anymore and is unreachable. If you wish then you can add me on skype so I could answer all of your questions quickly: "[redacted]".

I'm at work and cannot use Skype from here, sorry. Is there any
possibility that someone will be able to recover the data, or should I
just give up?

I will ask my CEO today and inform you after that.

Many thanks, I appreciate your assistance.

We might as well start having a conversation about what happens if the world save cannot be recovered. Qoozio was so reliable that I relied on their own backups to safe-guard the world. As such, I do not have any backups for the world for about the last six months. Losing that amount of work would be exceptionally painful, and I don't think any of us would want to go back to playing in that kind of map. So, I think the question is, if the world cannot be recovered, do we want to continue this server with a completely fresh map, starting from scratch, or just scrap the server and be done with it?

BSmith

12-05-2013, 16:52

Starting with a fresh map is far more preferable to me than scrapping it altogether. I think I would also like to start fresh instead of going back 6 months, but then that is mainly because most of what I have done on the current map has been in the last 6 months.

Ishmael

12-05-2013, 23:34

Obviously I'm hoping that the current backup can be recovered. If not, however, I would be leaning towards starting afresh. From past experience, nothing kills my enjoyment in a game faster than having to redo large chunks of previous progress. With that said, I haven't done anything too significant in the past six months, so ultimately I'd be fine with any outcome.

newO_ajniN

12-06-2013, 03:31

TinCow,

Based on thread above it doesn't look too promising. It appears (to me) that the employees are stealing from the company as they are running out of a burning building. Either that, or he wants to make you convinced that the whole thing is toast so you cut your losses and run.

I can't begin to believe the amount of time it must have taken to build some of the rather large and complex creations (e.g. Sigaurd's castle, the space needle, the arena, the enderman farm, the cathedral and others I'm forgetting). It seems like if you could save some of the big builds and maybe place them on a new map, then it might be worth it. Considering the time it takes to patch it all together, I wouldn't place anything I built in the category of things worth saving. I'm okay with whatever you all decide.

I really enjoy the game, but more than that you have created a unique multiplayer experience. The players have all been very gracious, encouraging and creatively inspiring.

Take care, newO

TinCow

12-06-2013, 14:35

It appears (to me) that the employees are stealing from the company as they are running out of a burning building. Either that, or he wants to make you convinced that the whole thing is toast so you cut your losses and run.

I'm aware of the sketchiness of the situation and his approach to me. Regardless, I'll say anything to anyone if it has a chance of getting the world data back. Words don't cost me any money.

TinCow

12-06-2013, 16:23

I will add that there's something I find oddly appealing about starting from scratch. We would be able to use a completely fresh world generated in 1.7 without any old terrain/biome issues of any kind. We've got a decent pool of experienced players who like working together on large projects. A fresh world where we have to carve out a new city from nothing would be quite interesting. I've had such a glut of resources in our existing world for so long that there wasn't really much of a challenge in anything anymore. Starting over without all my machines and enchanted tools would be kind of refreshing.

BSmith

12-06-2013, 16:42

You know, I was thinking of posting something very similar, but you encapsulated my thoughts exactly. A fresh start would be quite fun. There was a ton of work that went into the old world, and I am sad that that may be lost, but I am quite excited about being able to build something new from scratch.

The biggest thing I was looking forward to with the map changes for 1.7 we were planning was the new exploration aspects, but getting to do it for the whole thing and getting to build new infrastructure with cool players is even more appealing to me.

Single player minecraft is only so fun for me. It loses some of its luster when there is no way anyone else will see what I am doing. I'd much rather play in a team environment where we can learn from each other and contribute to cool things.

TinCow

12-06-2013, 17:06

Single player minecraft is only so fun for me. It loses some of its luster when there is no way anyone else will see what I am doing. I'd much rather play in a team environment where we can learn from each other and contribute to cool things.

That's kind of the thing I was thinking about: what exactly are we losing if we lose the old world? It's basically just to show off all the work we've done previously, but who are we showing it off to? For the most part, the only people who see it are ourselves, and we all know what we built and what we accomplished. We're not going to forget those structures just because we can't run around them anymore. If anything, those memories might inspire us to do things again, bigger and better. We were already talking about knocking down the noob hotel because it didn't look good in comparison to the new stuff, and there's honestly a lot of structures like that. The Arena is actually kind of boring being built from all stone brick, but that was all we had to build from back then and no one is going to go through the effort to remodel it at this point. I feel similarly about the town hall; decent enough for when it was built, but actually kind of low quality in comparison to the rest of the city around it, and certainly not 'worthy' of being the center of the city we were building. We could do it all over with access to all the new biomes and materials, without map height constraints (a major factor in the size of the Arena), and with our more modern and elaborate designs.

BSmith

12-06-2013, 17:11

We can also take a little less organic approach to the initial layout of the city. I’m all for organic growth, but guided organic growth is even better. We know that we want a city, and we know roughly the size that the center will be, so we can plan accordingly in the new world. The city can also be the true center of the world.

It will also be interesting to see what kind of biome we spawn in, and work around the terrain as best we can to build a nice central city area. I am a big fan of using the terrain as it is and working around it as minimally as possible. It’s one of the reasons I kept all of the big oak trees on my farm and built around them.

Needless to say I am leaning more and more towards a fresh start regardless if we get our old world back or not.

TinCow

12-06-2013, 17:15

It will also be interesting to see what kind of biome we spawn in, and work around the terrain as best we can to build a nice central city area. I am a big fan of using the terrain as it is and working around it as minimally as possible. It’s one of the reasons I kept all of the big oak trees on my farm and built around them.

If we wanted to build the city right at the very center of the map, that might be a bit hard with some biomes, such as ocean, extreme hills, or mesa. If we did want to build it right in the center, I could keep respawning the world when I created it until I got one that had one of the more acceptable biomes in that area.

BSmith

12-06-2013, 17:17

I think I am ok with that.

Nigel

12-06-2013, 18:18

Well, I do feel a bit nostalgic about loosing our world and - to be honest - my very first thought was "Gosh, if we have lost it all, I dont know if I can muster the strength to get back into MineCraft".

On the other hand, your excitement for something new is catching on and after all, the value of this is in the players not in the structures. So as long as they are there, pixel-life will go on.

But we should also hear the voices of those, who will loose really hard work. Never mind my own little house, but Sigurd, Aridhol/Ishmael and some others have build some really spectacular buildings with a lot of effort. If those could still be saved, that may be definitely worth the effort.

TinCow

12-06-2013, 19:00

If those could still be saved, that may be definitely worth the effort.

Oh, if the world can be saved the world WILL be saved. If I can get the data back we will not be doing a wipe, period. This discussion is about what to do if the data is lost. That scenario is, quite frankly, looking very likely at this point. Our options then are a fresh world or shutting down Orgcraft altogether. Well, I suppose we could also restore from a 6 month old save, but I would be extremely reluctant to do that. A lot of the most spectacular work has been done in the last 6 months, and that would all be gone.

Tuuvi

12-07-2013, 00:05

I think a Feed the Beast server would cool if the world has to be started over. Building machines and piping materials around looks like a blast to me and it would make gathering large amounts of resources much easier.

spankythehippo

12-07-2013, 04:40

I'm totally game with doing a new wipe. Every single project I've done has been a disappointment for me, so a fresh start would definitely be refreshing.

It would be interesting to see how a city can develop when everyone works on it full time.

Tamur

12-07-2013, 05:31

I don't have a massive time investment in the current world, but I'd really hate the double-loss of both the world and the community here if we do end up not being able to recover the world. I have loved the Orgcraft community's trust and cooperation -- extremely hard to find that elsewhere.

Sigurd

12-07-2013, 14:12

*growl*

Vinitharya

12-08-2013, 11:06

*growl*

That's about the response I expected. After a particularly catastrophic data loss back in 2009, I've had multiple refreshing data storage systems, both on my computer, a hard drive, and online, to a lesser extent. If you get it back, I might suggest every 2 or 3 weeks, creating a backup world file automatically. I distrust cloud/off-site storage for my primary/only line of data storage, and this is why.

TinCow

12-08-2013, 14:00

Nigel

12-08-2013, 14:22

TinCow, I would be very interested in getting the 6 month old save file from our world, wether we decide to continue from it or not.

There have been so many fantastic places which I meant to visit and never did. I would really love to at least see them offlline and learn what I can from them. Perhaps you can upload the savegame somewhere at the Org?

newO_ajniN

12-08-2013, 19:08

I'm aware of the sketchiness of the situation and his approach to me. Regardless, I'll say anything to anyone if it has a chance of getting the world data back. Words don't cost me any money.

I realized you knew. I was only trying to be clever and commiserate. :)

I am good with whatever the group decides. I think yourself and others have more to loose in terms of investment in time.

spankythehippo

12-08-2013, 23:28

Out of curiousity, is there a way to see what was in the 6 month save?

newO_ajniN

12-09-2013, 06:08

The person I was talking to said it was impossible to recover the data. It seems clear that most of you want the server to keep going, so I will begin work on finding a new host and getting a server online and setup. So far no one has expressed a preference for a 6-month old save, so unless the discussion moves that way soon the world will be fresh.

Just another thought, what if we used the 6 month old backup to save whatever we can (city, arena, and a couple of other prominent structures) and then regenerated most of the map with new biomes. If we could move the spawn point, then the old city would become a second city and a new central city could be built from scratch around the new spawn location?

However

Vinitharya

12-09-2013, 06:53

An idea...

Go on with what is essentially a clean reset. We will have a new world with all the new biomes, and all the potential that comes with it, and TC will be able to implement some sort of backup scheme to cover our asses if something like this happens again.

Furthermore...

Tuuvi has a point about FTB. Perhaps two worlds, one semi-vanilla as before, and one FTB would work? My dream scenario entails starting with Vanilla, and unlocking access to a separate FTB world for people to go to/stay in if they want. If possible, Orgcraft could have the regular semi-vanilla world, FTB world, the Nether, the End, the unmapped world (whatever it was called), and have it all contained in the discrete live server map.

Thoughts?

Sigurd

12-09-2013, 11:15

I am of course very disappointed as I have spent many hours on this server. However, it was a learning experience for me as Orgcraft was my introduction to minecraft.
The only thing I have lost is of an imaginary material nature. A fresh start is an opportunity to correct the mistakes made early on.

My thoughts:
The new server will have an enderfarm mark II that should be even more efficient. I would like this to be a collective project so players have a joint ownership. (we need to build it deeper and wider.)
The city still needs the empire state building which could be our main hub (hotel, farm, apartments).
I am probably not going to rebuild the castle as that was just too big for my own good. It was fun to build, but too large to decorate. I would however like to continue my last project of building a real medieval town/city westeros style.

Concerning type of server... sure a tekkit style would be a huge step forward at least for me, but all I want really is a block crusher. Something that will make stone collectible and store-able if used in a generator. Crush blocks that will rain down on hoppers-that will funnel them to either furnaces or chests.

TinCow

12-09-2013, 14:30

BSmith

12-09-2013, 14:49

I'm fine with keeping it relatively vanilla.

Tamur

12-09-2013, 15:43

All not in favour of TinCow being murdered in his sleep, say aye

The more vanilla the better, even with potential husband-icide not considered. Minecraft to me is all about discovery and problem-solving and creativity. The big mods generally encourage the opposite, in my experience.

Sigurd

12-09-2013, 16:06

Aye...

Exploring isn't my thing - I like terraforming & building structures. I think mining is a chore and go to great lenghts to make mining as efficient as possible (efficiency 5 tools and 4 tier beacon). Any other machinery that would aid in gathering resources for building structures is welcomed on my part. I built the enderfarm to aid in keeping tools fresh and get enderpearls to move faster on construction sites (seldom using ladders).

Maybe a new server could start out as something of a story? How do we end up at a new fresh world?

Vinitharya

12-09-2013, 16:53

spankythehippo

12-09-2013, 22:51

Also, since the server is international, something like FTB would lag. A lot. I have 12 GB RAM allocated to Minecraft alone when I'm playing, and the server still lags quite a bit, even with the fastest settings.

Ishmael

12-09-2013, 23:27

Chipping in with my two cents, I've always preferred to have things as vanilla as possible. Stuff like TreeAssist and MobCatcher helped reduce monotony, but didn't fundamentally alter the nature or resource gathering. I can't help but feel that if we had industrial-style mods we'd all soon be swimming in resources, and essentially playing creative mode sans flying. Whilst we had a lot of assistance in the previous server, at the end of the day if you wanted to build something big you'd have to put in some effort beforehand, and I quite liked that.

newO_ajniN

12-10-2013, 05:54

Another factor is also that a crapton of mods means we need a more powerful server, which means I need to pay more, which means my wife might murder me in my sleep.

Aye. What about setting up a paypal account and allowing the community to chip in a little coin if they can to help offset your expenses?

I'm all for minimal mods; like love tree assist and mobcatcher.

Tuuvi

12-11-2013, 00:41

Regarding the old backup, by itself the single overworld map doesn't take up a ton of disk space without a map. It might be feasible to put that world online just like Mineworld so that people can still access it, though disk space constraints would mean that I couldn't put anything more than a very basic low res map of it up.

Before I consider using a major mod pack like FTB or Tekkit, I'd like to have some more conversation about the topic. I do like the idea of mods that add new features to the game and fill in some gaps that vanilla is missing, but I also feel like a lot of these mods have gone way too far beyond vanilla. It seems like in a lot of them the tech tree itself is so massive that people simply focus on climbing the tech tree and don't have anywhere near as much interest in building structures. How do others feel about this? Another factor is also that a crapton of mods means we need a more powerful server, which means I need to pay more, which means my wife might murder me in my sleep.

Based on what I've seen watching FTB and Tekkit videos the modpacks don't disable vanilla crafting recipes, so players would be free to choose their own play style and the extent at which they take advantage of the content added in the mods. In vanilla minecraft I don't make much use of redstone, while other players like to build complex redstone contraptions.

Chipping in with my two cents, I've always preferred to have things as vanilla as possible. Stuff like TreeAssist and MobCatcher helped reduce monotony, but didn't fundamentally alter the nature or resource gathering. I can't help but feel that if we had industrial-style mods we'd all soon be swimming in resources, and essentially playing creative mode sans flying. Whilst we had a lot of assistance in the previous server, at the end of the day if you wanted to build something big you'd have to put in some effort beforehand, and I quite liked that.

The resource gathering machines in FTB and Tekkit require a lot of materials and infrastructure in order to build and use. Quarries, for example, require gold and diamonds to craft, and then need engines to power them, pipes to transport the mined materials, and furnaces to smelt the ores into ingots. So you still have to put in a lot of effort and do some vanilla mining, but then the process of mining is automated so you don't have to spend hours on end monotonously mining cobblestone in order to build anything large. Personally I think the process of building the infrastructure looks like fun in and of itself.

Vinitharya

12-11-2013, 21:25

I concur with Tuuvi. I'm the worst kind of engineer, the one that enjoys neither math nor physics, but the specific mods I mentioned means that it won't matter. If I put in enough effort into strengthening my infrastructure, I can build all of the things I've always wanted to without cheapening it by giving myself the blocks for free. The ceiling for improvement is put extremely high in doing so.

And, if, say, TC wants to build another glorious palace of Nether Quartz, he doesn't need dozens of man-hours (his or others) spent mining and mining and mining. He could plan it and place it, spending more time on aesthetics and design.

BSmith

12-11-2013, 21:51

I've been playing a little bit of Galacticraft this week and am starting to enjoy the added functionality and learning curve of added machines and resources. I could be convinced to give a more featured mod a chance. My only concern is that the server would advance in pace and scale faster than a more vanilla world would, and we would be at a similar place as TinCow was with things not being much of a challenge anymore much more quickly. But that is a longer term concern and could be outweighed by the newfangled additions a good mod might bring.

Vinitharya

12-12-2013, 01:31

TinCow

12-12-2013, 14:30

And, if, say, TC wants to build another glorious palace of Nether Quartz, he doesn't need dozens of man-hours (his or others) spent mining and mining and mining. He could plan it and place it, spending more time on aesthetics and design.

Without all the hours of work, it wouldn't have been much of an accomplishment.

TinCow

12-12-2013, 14:31

Please ping the following servers and post your results:
texas.prominecrafthost.com
uk.prominecrafthost.com

Sigurd

12-12-2013, 14:43

Please ping the following servers and post your results:
texas.prominecrafthost.com
uk.prominecrafthost.com

https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y230/asleka/ping_zps948e669c.png~original

BSmith

12-12-2013, 14:57

texas.prominecrafthost.com:
45ms

uk.prominecrafthost.com:
112ms

Let me know if you need more than the time and I can post a screenshot.

Tamur

12-12-2013, 15:06

texas.prominecrafthost.com:
38ms

uk.prominecrafthost.com:
118ms

0.0% packet loss! :)

Nigel

12-12-2013, 17:11

texas.prominecrafthost.com
175, 180, 176 ms

uk.prominecrafthost.com
173, 65, 64 ms

TinCow

12-12-2013, 19:40

Ok, here are my plans and thoughts at the moment.

I plan on using the host listed above, with the UK server. I'm sick and tired of unreliable hosts, so I'm going with major, long-established hosts that run a lot of Minecraft servers. The above was one of several of these I was looking at, and they responded promptly to questions I had and their server plans seem decent. I will be choosing UK Package 5 (2.5gb RAM). We are an international community and in this case the US gamers seem to ping better to the UK server than the EU gamers do to the US server (my own pings were 47 to Texas and 87 to UK). Package 5 is actually beefier than the system we had with Qoozio, with the exception of disc space. Disc space there is a lot smaller, and I couldn't fit the entire old server in 25gb. That said, disc space requirements won't be as large as they were before for several reasons

First, the world will be smaller. The previous world had a radius of over 6000. That number was not chosen because we needed a world that size but instead because at the time when I decided to fill out the entire world in a circular area, therother and I had already colonized our area out a very long distance from the center. As such, making a world with a radius smaller than that would have cut off our new homes, and I wasn't going to do that. There's no such situation for the new world, so I don't have to use 6000 as the radius. I've decided to make the world radius 4000. That should still be way more space than we actually need, particularly since the 1.7 map generation code will make a lot more land and a lot less ocean.

Second, additional disc space will be saved by removing internal world backups. I used to use a plugin to auto-create backups of the world every day at a certain time. I was originally using that when the server was still hosted in my house, and simply kept using it when I moved to a remote host. However, the new host keeps 7 days of backups on their own anyway, so I dont have to do it myself. In addition, this latest fiasco shows that backups kept on the server anyway aren't really of much use. Removing a week's worth of server backups will save a good 10gb.

Third, dynmap will take up less space on the new server. On the old server dynmap used up a massive amount of disc space due to the size of the world and the HD render. A reduction in world radius from over 6000 to 4000 will significantly reduce the map size. I also plan on fiddling with the HD image compression to try and get that map's space down even further. Finally, I plan on not using a Cave render for the new world, at least for a while. Without a Cave render, we won't be able to see what is under the ground and, as a result, we'll have to explore the old fashioned way to find the Strongholds and get to The End. That seems a lot more fun to me than simply knowing where everything is immediately.

With regard to the plugins to be used, I am going to start running the server with the same plugins we had when it went down. That means no FTB or Tekkit. Both FTB and Tekkit are simply too over the top for my taste and, since I'm paying for this thing, I get a veto on what goes on the server. That said, I will definitely consider additional plugins to increase automation and cut out some of the more tedious chores, as long as the additions seem at least plausibly balanced. If you want additional features like that, please go out and find specific plugins that you think would be fun on the server and post links to them here. I will consider every single one that gets posted.

I plan on purchasing the server and starting work on setting it up this evening when I get home. It will take some time for me to get everything installed and then to pre-generate the world and the new map. I will keep you updated on the progress, but I anticipate that the server should be ready for play by Saturday, possibly sooner.

BSmith

12-12-2013, 19:47

Is 1.7 available now?

TinCow

12-12-2013, 19:56

Is 1.7 available now?

Yes, Bukkit 1.7 was released a few days after the server went down. It's still only in development build status, with no beta or release build available, but I'm not going to wait any longer just for that. We need 1.7 to create the new world and if I don't run a dev build we'll be sitting around doing nothing for even longer. The server has already been offline for over 2 weeks and it's about time I put that to an end. We've run dev builds before without any significant issues, and I'll upgrade to a beta and release whenever they come out.

Sigurd

12-13-2013, 11:48

... That means no FTB or Tekkit. Both FTB and Tekkit are simply too over the top for my taste and, since I'm paying for this thing, I get a veto on what goes on the server.
Agreed.

That said, I will definitely consider additional plugins to increase automation and cut out some of the more tedious chores, as long as the additions seem at least plausibly balanced. If you want additional features like that, please go out and find specific plugins that you think would be fun on the server and post links to them here. I will consider every single one that gets posted.

I plan on purchasing the server and starting work on setting it up this evening when I get home. It will take some time for me to get everything installed and then to pre-generate the world and the new map. I will keep you updated on the progress, but I anticipate that the server should be ready for play by Saturday, possibly sooner.

I have looked into a few mods... and the only one to really catch my eye is the Red Power mod. I really like the block crusher and frames which enables you to make movable stuff. Too bad it got discontinued back at the 1.4.6 version.

TinCow

12-13-2013, 13:00

As a status update, the server is online and I have pre-generated our new world. It has a nicely flat open area around 0/0, and there's also a village relatively nearby which might be useful while we're starting out. Today I will work on getting the new map configured and rendered, and after that I will begin restoring our custom configurations of the individual plugins.

Nigel

12-13-2013, 15:00

Whow - does this mean we get a sneak preview to walk the first steps on new map?

Or do you need to have all he plugins installed first, before we mere mortals demi-immortals can get online.

TinCow

12-13-2013, 15:37

Whow - does this mean we get a sneak preview to walk the first steps on new map?

Or do you need to have all he plugins installed first, before we mere mortals demi-immortals can get online.

No one except me will be able to access the world until I've got everything configured properly, which could be tonight but certainly no later than tomorrow. However, the map render is currently running and I will post a link to it once it is done so that you can see our new world even though it won't quite be ready for construction. It'll probably be a few hours though until it is complete.

Tamur

12-13-2013, 15:40

Exciting news! Thanks for taking this on (again), TinCow.

BSmith

12-13-2013, 16:07

The anticipation is killing me! :bounce:

TinCow

12-13-2013, 19:49

As a heads-up, I might not be posting the map today. The quick flat render appears to show a deficiency of a bunch of biomes. There is only one small Mesa biome at the very edge of the map, with what looks like a larger one starting just outside our border and thus inaccessible. There's also only a single tundra biome, also at the very edge of the map, though of decent size. I can't see any Ice Spikes or Mushroom Island biomes at all. It's possible that those would appear if I pushed the borders out further, but I'm concerned about going over our available disk space if I expand the map too much. At the moment I'm still waiting for the HD render to finish, at which point I'll know how much extra disk space we have for a map larger than 4000. If there's enough extra room I'll try pushing the borders further to see what else pops up out there. If that isn't possible due to space or if I do it and we don't get the missing biomes, I'm going to have to wipe the map and try it again. It seems a bit silly to do an entirely new map for 1.7 and then accept a version that doesn't showcase the new biomes very well, or at all.

Tamur

12-13-2013, 20:42

Ice Forest biome seems really rare. I have yet to find one in SP (though admittedly, that's with me running around in survival mode trying to find one while trying to survive).

I think it's well worth the wait and trouble though to have a map with these 1.7-specific biomes. Bummer it takes such a long time to render.

BSmith

12-13-2013, 20:57

Agreed. This is our chance to make it as perfect as possible. Let's take the time to do that!

TinCow

12-14-2013, 01:06

On closer examination, we do appear to have an large Ice Spike biome at the very edge of the map, half in and half out of the border. Expanding the border would thus net us the rest of that biome and a large mesa biome as well. However, no Mushroom island, which means no mycellium. I suppose we could live with that, and the central spawn area is pretty useful for our purposes, but I'm not really that impressed with the world in general and I'm leaning towards tossing this one out. Here is the map so that the rest of you can see it and share your opinions; the HD portion is still rendering at the time I posted this:
http://orgcraft.org:8123/

BSmith

12-14-2013, 01:41

I tend to agree. It would be nice if we had a decent mesa less at the edge. This one seems to have a ton of plains, hills and forest as well. Even the savannas are not all that well distributed. South of the center is awfully green. The villages are nice though. The one near the spawn looks nice and large and the is another one NW in the desert. Overall this is playable, but you are right that it lacks any real magic.

Could you manually add a mushroom island somewhere?

TinCow

12-14-2013, 02:45

Could you manually add a mushroom island somewhere?

I could, but that's a fair amount of work to salvage a world of dubious quality to begin with. Really, the only thing I like about the current world is the central area.

BSmith

12-14-2013, 02:55

Well, there's your answer then. I'd just go with a new world then.

Vinitharya

12-14-2013, 03:49

I could, but that's a fair amount of work to salvage a world of dubious quality to begin with. Really, the only thing I like about the current world is the central area.

QFT.

Dammit, but we're gonna get started on the right foot.

TinCow

12-14-2013, 04:13

I did some research, and due to the significant increase in the number of biomes that are now possible, it's actually very difficult to find a seed that has all of them within a reasonable radius of 0/0. As such, I've scoured the net in search of some decent seeds people have already discovered to save us the pain and agony of going through this with trial and error. I have come up with a seed that is pretty spectacular. The only downside is that 0/0 is in a desert. However, there is a nice flat area that's suitable for city building relatively close to the center, and the rest of the world is spectacular and has everything we want. So, I'll just move the spawn point towards that flat area and out of the desert. I guarantee we'll be satisfied with this world, so I'm going to get to work on putting it online now. The map I previously posted is now offline. I'll let the world generate overnight and run a fresh map on it tomorrow.

TinCow

12-14-2013, 13:55

For anyone who hadn't noticed, the map of the new (and final) world is visible here:
http://orgcraft.org:8123 (http://orgcraft.org:8123/)/
The HD render is still only about halfway done and has several hours left, but you can already see that there's a massive amount of very interesting terrain to play around in. The ironic thing is that, due to the rarity of diverse terrain like this, we probably would not have encountered anything this cool if we had simply cropped our old world and regenerated part of it. I liked our old world, but to be quite honest this terrain puts that one to shame.

I still have some more plugins to install and configure after the map generation is done, but I anticipate that the server will be ready for play by this evening.

Tamur

12-14-2013, 15:19

Very cool to see it, tons of variety. Looking at the map makes me want to go exploring across that mesa out east and into the crazy karst mountains. Looks like a great world!

Sigurd

12-14-2013, 18:39

Any claims yet?

No?
X: -500, Z: 1350
MINE!! MINE MINE MINE MINE...
https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y230/asleka/Sigurdsplace_zpsee678cc4.png~original
What an utterly perfect location...

:sneaky:

I see all kinds of potential greatness for that location. Westeros style walled city... and a castle on top of that mountain islet north east in the red box.

Nigel

12-14-2013, 18:56

There are many places with a lot of potential.

For example, up North there is an area near the world border, which has several villages in close proximity.
I would go for the one at 280,-3440, if other players like to build up the other villages, we could establish a nice trading network there.

BSmith

12-14-2013, 19:31

I'd like the village and surrounding area of -1983,12.

TinCow

12-14-2013, 20:37

I'm going to stick closer to the center, at least at first. I'll be building underground/inside one of the mountains around 500, -750. I figure the flat savannah, plains, and desert area to the SW of that spot is a good place for the communal city. It would look nice to have the city in that valley, with views of the giant mountains and the mesa.

BSmith

12-14-2013, 21:40

We should work to get a nether road network in place as soon as possible to let us get back and forth to each others projects easily and quickly.

Ishmael

12-14-2013, 23:42

TinCow

12-14-2013, 23:52

Ok, the world is ready to go and you should all have access. Let me know if you encounter any problems or any features that I forgot to re-add. A few notices regarding plugins:

Rebalance Villagers and MobCatcher aren't yet compatibile with 1.7, so they are offline. MobArena is also offline, but that's because we don't have an arena anymore to use it with. As soon as one is built I will put it back online. TreeAssist is online, but hasn't been updated for 1.7 and as such does not work with the new 1.7 tree types, though it should work for the old ones.

Ishmael

12-15-2013, 00:03

I'm pretty sure I've said it before, but you are a legend TinCow. Thanks for all the effort you've gone to for us here.

TinCow

12-15-2013, 00:24

We've got something new as well, since we're starting with a fresh world I've added stats tracking:
http://stats.orgcraft.org/

spankythehippo

12-15-2013, 01:46

This here is my island. I might also build in the tundra closest to my island. In fact, I WILL build in the tundra. So yeaaaaah.... It's located at X = -1816 Z = -1550

https://img834.imageshack.us/img834/1655/nll2.jpg

newO_ajniN

12-15-2013, 02:24

What, nobody's claimed a mesa biome yet? The island at (1750, -2000) looks perfect for me. I might redo my city and tower like I'd always wanted to, with the tower and villas on the plateau, looking down on the plebs.

I am interested in a section of Mesa. Also interested in the plan for the central city - should we do a little zoning and create plots for certain types and heights of buildings?

Tamur

12-15-2013, 05:04

If orgcraft.org is still the address for the new host, I'm getting a "you're not on the whitelist" message.

TinCow

12-15-2013, 05:47

If orgcraft.org is still the address for the new host, I'm getting a "you're not on the whitelist" message.

Try now

Tamur

12-15-2013, 06:17

Got in, all good. Thank you!

Nigel

12-15-2013, 11:05

If orgcraft.org is still the address for the new host, I'm getting a "you're not on the whitelist" message.

Same here, I get a "You are not White-listed on this server" message.
I go by Nigel_S_Loring on minecraft.

TinCow

12-15-2013, 14:47

Same here, I get a "You are not White-listed on this server" message.
I go by Nigel_S_Loring on minecraft.

I have added you. I recreated the whitelist from the list in the OP. For some reason I forgot to add both you and Tamur to that list when you originally joined a long time ago. As such, your names didn't make the jump to the re-created whitelist. Sorry about that. I have added you both to that list now as well, just in case.

TinCow

12-15-2013, 14:59

I have changed TreeAssist plugins. Believe it or not, there are multiple plugins with that exact same name and they compete against one another. I accidentally installed the wrong one yesterday and it was having issues. I have changed to our usual plugin and it should now work for everyone on all trees. Let me know if you encounter any problems.

BSmith

12-15-2013, 23:06

To flush out my claim a little more, I’d like this area around the village at -1994,0.

https://img809.imageshack.us/img809/7959/rr9q.png

Vinitharya

12-16-2013, 00:17

We should work to get a nether road network in place as soon as possible to let us get back and forth to each others projects easily and quickly.

ME ME ME!
I promised I'd do it anyhow...

Ishmael

12-16-2013, 22:33

Given that we probably won't have Mineworld on this server, should we designate an area for strip mining sand? Obviously it isn't all that nice-looking an operation, so if we pick somewhere out of the way that nobody wants to settle it will keep the damage contained. The far northern desert has a couple of villages and the central area will probably be too well traveled, but that still leaves a few around the edges of the map. I'd be inclined to use the island at (1000, 3300) myself, just because it seems less interesting than the rest. It's somewhat out of the way, but once nether access is up that won't matter so much.

TinCow

12-16-2013, 22:39

Tuuvi

12-17-2013, 04:33

spankythehippo

12-17-2013, 04:41

So, I found a Skeleton spawner. When I eventually mine it with Silk Touch, where should the XP farm be placed? Should it be built in the air above central spawn or on ground level?

Also, do creeper blasts inactivate Nether Portals with their damage disabled?

Ishmael

12-17-2013, 05:44

I guess it doesn't matter because of the plugin but I had an idea for mining sand that won't alter the landscape. Dig two layers down, replace the bottom layer with cobblestone and put the sand back on top of the cobblestone. Then you can mine all of the sand underneath the cobblestone without creating a big ugly hole.

The problem is that the sand only goes three layers down, so that's highly inefficient. That's the same reason I don't tend to use the plugin for large quantities of sand - it is much faster to mine sand than cobblestone.

rajpoot

12-17-2013, 08:33

Speaking of spawners, I found a Spider spawner under my temporary base in an abandoned mineshaft (Not stronghold :sweatdrop:). Since I don't intend to make any use of it, people are welcome to pick it up.

Nigel

12-17-2013, 20:18

where is that located?

I am not saying that I want to take it, but I could use some thread for making fishing rods, bows and what not.
I would like to visit and do some spider hunting.

BSmith

12-17-2013, 20:18

I’ve found 3 cave spider spawners should we need them for xp farm or other purposes:

X: -1968; y: 43; z: -20
X: -1950; y: 36; z: -58
X: -1944; y: 32; z: -31

rajpoot

12-17-2013, 21:01

where is that located?

I am not saying that I want to take it, but I could use some thread for making fishing rods, bows and what not.
I would like to visit and do some spider hunting.

Besides the ones BSmith found, there is at least one close to where I'm mining. The entrance to the mine is around -2497, 2275. There are some sign posts to help. You can reach by sea or through the Nether.

BSmith

12-17-2013, 21:34

I have over a stack of string in my castle. Feel free to come take some. The nether route doesn't go directly there yet, it will take you to my temp setup a little to the north, but that is probably the easiest way. You can also head down my mine to access the abandoned mine shaft to get more if you want to do it on your own.

spankythehippo

12-18-2013, 11:33

Sigurd

12-18-2013, 12:21

So, I found the weirdest End Portal. It's located in an isolated room a few metres below the surface of water in the Deep Ocean. There's only the room and nothing else.

https://img547.imageshack.us/img547/9821/etda.png

Alright...

Hard to see the coordinates on the image.
And we could build something on top... remove the water and link it to the nether. Who will kill the end dragon? End farm is near future...

edit: found it

https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y230/asleka/enderportal_zps855bf22c.png~original

TinCow

12-18-2013, 14:25

That's an incredible find. I'd like to suggest that we encase the entire thing in an underwater glass dome and remove the water. Hell, we could even remove the entire stronghold room around it, leaving only the end portal in a custom underwater room. That would be a rather unique entrance to the End.

rajpoot

12-18-2013, 14:35

Alright...

Hard to see the coordinates on the image.
And we could build something on top... remove the water and link it to the nether. Who will kill the end dragon? End farm is near future...
[/SPOIL]

I ended up doing it last time because I'd lost my best set of armour in the end.
I propose once the entire thing is set up we organise a joint hunt. It's too hard for one player anyway, what with all the crystals on the obsidian towers and the dragon pushing you off every now and then.
We can then use the egg as the main decoration in the future town hall or whatever.

Nigel

12-18-2013, 18:55

Whow that was fast.
I did not expect it to be found after many hours into the game.

Well, not a bad thing, I guess. We are probably still far away from killinng the ender dragond.

spankythehippo

12-18-2013, 22:04

I ended up doing it last time because I'd lost my best set of armour in the end.
I propose once the entire thing is set up we organise a joint hunt. It's too hard for one player anyway, what with all the crystals on the obsidian towers and the dragon pushing you off every now and then.
We can then use the egg as the main decoration in the future town hall or whatever.

It's probably gonna be harder since the old Dragon was killed on Easy difficulty, if I recall correctly.

TinCow

12-19-2013, 01:08

How would people feel about adding craftable monster spawners? The silk spawners plugin allows that as an option that can be set to any custom recipe, and can be enabled or disabled for each specific mob. I think that it would be unbalancing for a lot of the mobs, but I can't see much harm in adding a recipe for all creatures that already have mob spawners that can be obtained in-game. That list is zombie, skeleton, spider, cave spider, blaze, and silver fish. I was also thinking that creepers could be added, as their only drop is gunpowder and, frankly, we could use a bit more of that on the server for more firework fun. I'd be reluctant to add spawners for any of the other monsters, though I'd consider adding them for animals like pigs and such. To balance out the convenience of making these things craftable, I was thinking of making them super expensive by having each recipe use up a Nether Star and perhaps some other expensive/rare stuff.

Thoughts?

BSmith

12-19-2013, 01:20

It would be fun to have a pig or cow spawner. Speaking of, spanky and I each tried to get a spawner with my silk touch pick. It didn't work. Was that part of a plugin that we don't have active at the moment?

If we do add craftable spawners I agree that they should be expensive.

Makrell

12-19-2013, 01:23

Cool server, made my first boat on it :D

11474

TinCow

12-19-2013, 01:35

Speaking of, spanky and I each tried to get a spawner with my silk touch pick. It didn't work. Was that part of a plugin that we don't have active at the moment?

I had not properly configured the permissions settings. It works now and I tested it with spanky. My investigation of this issue is what made me realize we could add craftable spawners. Let me know what kind of spawner you lost and I'll reimburse you for it.

BSmith

12-19-2013, 02:03

Cool. It was a cave spider spawner.

newO_ajniN

12-19-2013, 02:04

I propose once the entire thing is set up we organise a joint hunt. .

I would be interested. If someone wants to set a date and time, I'll try to join in.

newO_ajniN

12-19-2013, 04:41

Can we try to make a horse friendly world?

* at least 3 blocks of height clearance on main paths
* no portals against walls (causes horses to warp, get stuck, and die)
* for indoor portals, place double doors on building (horses can be pulled on lead with a 2 block height clearance.
* stairs should be 2 blocks wide with 4 blocks high

Riding a horse on a nether path provides really fast transport. I have grown to prefer it over anything else.
To warp a horse in and out of the nether ride the horse into the nether portal and dismount (shift). The horse should be sent through. Then back up a re-enter the portal to send yourself through. May require a little practice.

Thanks for the consideration.

spankythehippo

12-19-2013, 10:04

BEHOLD! The penis farm!

https://img542.imageshack.us/img542/1461/pz0r.png

It's actually meant to be a skeleton farm. I'll finish the aesthetics eventually. I'm thinking about making it into an interchangeable bone farm/XP farm. I would put a dispenser near the top of the droppy part with lava in it, with a sign under it. With the press of a button, it can be turned off.

BSmith

12-19-2013, 18:19

I've got a cave spider XP farm set up now at the north end of my castle. -2079, -152

There is also a normal mob farm near there too, but that one isn't powered by any spawners yet.

I have another cave spider spawner so I could build another farm near the central spawn if people think that would be beneficial.

rajpoot

12-19-2013, 20:18

I've created a single tier mob farm over the water near my lighthouse. The drop rate is pretty decent, specially during day time. I managed to collect around 50 gunpowder and other loot over the period of an hour. You're all welcome to use the farm.
For the record the farm only generates loot since all mobs (with the exception of witches) die due the fall, so no XP. Also somehow falling mobs can cause damage.

spankythehippo

12-20-2013, 10:07

So, I don't know if this is an error with TreeAssist, but I can't seem grow 2x2 saplings. A single jungle tree sapling grows fine, but 2x2 doesn't.

Sigurd

12-20-2013, 12:40

TreeAssist doesn't work for me at all.

TinCow

12-20-2013, 12:57

TreeAssist doesn't work for me at all.

Is that a recent thing or has it never worked?

BSmith

12-20-2013, 15:01

Just tried it, and it doesn't work for me now either. This is new.

TinCow

12-20-2013, 15:26

A Beta release of Bukkit 1.7.2 came out yesterday and I updated last night. That is likely the cause of the Tree Assist issues.

Unless I hear otherwise, I am going to assume that everyone is in favor of making craftable spawners. As of this moment I plan on enabling craftable mob spawners for the following mobs:
Zombie
Skeleton
Spider
Cave Spider
Blaze
Silverfish
Creeper
Chicken
Cow
Pig
Sheep

The crafting recipe I intend to use is as follows:

INI
EXG
IDI

I = Iron Block
E = Emerald Block
G = Gold Block
D = Diamond Block
N = Nether Star
X = Spawn Egg w/ the mob you want to spawner to create

The above seems suitably expensive to compensate for the convenience of being able to craft the above spawners at will. Please comment if you don't approve of this proposal or would like it to be modified in some way. Since these will all require Spawn Eggs, I cannot add this feature until Mob Catcher is updated and working with 1.7.2. However, that seems like that won't take much longer so this can likely go into effect in relatively soon.

Beskar

12-20-2013, 16:09

Tree Assist was working yesterday, so most likely.

Though, no seedlings dropped, so I was unable to replant trees.

TinCow

12-20-2013, 17:26

Tree Assist should be working now, let me know if you encounter any additional problems with it or any other plugin.

rajpoot

12-20-2013, 19:46

Is it possible to make villager spawner too?
That way we can create villages instead of being restricted to settling near them.

TinCow

12-20-2013, 21:44

Is it possible to make villager spawner too?
That way we can create villages instead of being restricted to settling near them.

That's a bit too powerful I think. First, you can already make new villages by capturing existing villagers with Mob Catcher (once it's updated) and releasing them in a new location. Second, an actual villager spawner would completely bypass the normal villager breeding method which requires building proper villager housing.

BSmith

12-20-2013, 22:24

There are also a lot of villages already on the map. Once we get transportation networks up it will be easy to go between them.

BSmith

12-20-2013, 22:51

What about Wither Skeletons? Can a spawner be made of those (not sure if they fit the category of Skeleton or not). Pigmen Zombies may also be nice to have as an option (thinking gold farm).

TinCow

12-21-2013, 03:25

What about Wither Skeletons? Can a spawner be made of those (not sure if they fit the category of Skeleton or not). Pigmen Zombies may also be nice to have as an option (thinking gold farm).

Yeah, but both of those would dilute the economy for some of the more significant rare items in the game, namely wither skulls (and thus nether stars) and gold. That could be bad. Let's see how things go with the other craftable spawners and analyze it from there.

Ishmael

12-21-2013, 03:28

Do skeleton spawners in the nether produce wither skeletons? I know that (vanilla) spawn eggs do, so it might be best to check.

TinCow

12-21-2013, 15:13

Do skeleton spawners in the nether produce wither skeletons? I know that (vanilla) spawn eggs do, so it might be best to check.

I don't know for certain, but I want to say no. Best way to find out is to take one in there and see what happens.

rajpoot

12-21-2013, 16:00

That's a bit too powerful I think. First, you can already make new villages by capturing existing villagers with Mob Catcher (once it's updated) and releasing them in a new location. Second, an actual villager spawner would completely bypass the normal villager breeding method which requires building proper villager housing.

Alright. If the Mob Catcher thing works then we don't need one.
I asked primarily because I wanted to start a village on my island (I couldn't find any villages on any of the islands)

TinCow

12-22-2013, 14:12

Rebalance Villagers has been updated and is back online.

Csargo

12-23-2013, 18:42

x: -2271
y: 27
z:1478

There's a cave spider spawner if anyone wants it.

TinCow

12-23-2013, 22:33

Coords to the portal room of another stronghold: 907, 38, -435. I claim no credit for discovering this, was reading the thread that alerted me to this seed and the info was posted there. The underwater one that was already discovered is probably better as the main entrance to the End, but this one is useful for mossy/cracked stone harvesting.

Ishmael

12-27-2013, 23:25

Does anybody have emeralds yet? If so, would you be willing to trade some for diamonds? I'm looking to set up an automatic cow farm, but I'll need to MobCatcher two cows to start it off.

BSmith

12-27-2013, 23:43

Yeah, I have 8 or 9. Would love to trade for diamonds. Not sure when I can get online but they are in one of my chests in my castle if you want to go get them.

Vinitharya

12-28-2013, 11:22

There is now a safe road from dian's island retreat all the way to therother's portal and through to spawn and TC's base via the nether. I haven't reached every portal. I stopped entering random portals after being murdered in a skeleton dungeon. I think there were Wither skeletons in there. Regardless, I made it 3*3 to accommodate any future railroads and sprint-jumping. It's ugly, but it's direct and completely safe from ghasts and lava. Sorry by the way, I bogarted about 10-15 stacks of cobble from therother to finish it. As far as I know, the complete list of Nether-linked locations includes:

dian's place
therother's place
spawn
Owen's mesa
Gondor_is_Lost's place
TinCow/Scienter's base

Missing anything?

TinCow

12-28-2013, 13:59

Does anybody have emeralds yet? If so, would you be willing to trade some for diamonds? I'm looking to set up an automatic cow farm, but I'll need to MobCatcher two cows to start it off.

I do as well and am perfectly happy trading them for diamonds. Be aware that MobCatcher is not online yet. The developer says he's going to upload the 1.7.2 version (which is what we need) by tonight, so hopefully it will be online this weekend.

Sigurd

12-28-2013, 14:12

the complete list of Nether-linked locations includes:

dian's place
therother's place
spawn
Owen's mesa
Gondor_is_Lost's place
TinCow/Scienter's base

Missing anything?

I am on the way to dian's. I haven't made any roads in the nether yet, but my portal in the nether is completely encased in cobble. I am on the peninsula/islet with the beginnings of a great city wall.

Holidays... I have the entire Christmas holiday off and I still can't find time to get into minecraft mode. It seems I need to be at work and log on during slow spots. :sneaky:

rajpoot

12-28-2013, 16:42

Actually I found a road to BSmith's portal which was closer to mine than theother's. I found a side route to it, away from the cobble path Telcontar built on my request, but I'll try to connect the roads where I can.

Edit:
NVM Telcontar already thought of everything. BSmith's portal is connected.
In continuation of the work, I have starting laying down rails along the road.

Vinitharya

12-28-2013, 21:01

You'll have your link before long.

Ishmael

12-28-2013, 23:12

Yeah, I have 8 or 9. Would love to trade for diamonds. Not sure when I can get online but they are in one of my chests in my castle if you want to go get them.

I do as well and am perfectly happy trading them for diamonds. Be aware that MobCatcher is not online yet. The developer says he's going to upload the 1.7.2 version (which is what we need) by tonight, so hopefully it will be online this weekend.

Thanks guys! I grabbed 5 from each of you (it gave me a good excuse to check out your places), in exchange for 5 diamonds each. You've both settled in great locations - I'm somewhat jealous :beam:.

Also, for the record I'm also linked up to the nether network; past new0's turnoff. I've put up a couple of signs on the off chance anybody wants to visit.

rajpoot

12-29-2013, 08:47

So, I found a little underwater cave with a torch in it at the base of the mountain where my lighthouse is (on the island to the far south). While I don't have a problem with it, I'm just curious who dug there.

TinCow

12-31-2013, 14:38

MobCatcher has been updated and reinstalled. Simultaneously, craftable mob spawners have been enabled via Silk Spawners with the recipe discussed before. All pertinent info regarding these plugins can now be found in the OP.

Sigurd

01-03-2014, 11:05

Found another Zombi spawner looking for iron in some abandoned mines.
location (standing on the spawner): X-467, Z1312, Y29

Sigurd

01-03-2014, 11:35

Died by being pushed into lava by a cave spider. I think I stepped into a spawner before plummeting to my death. Lost all loot :bigcry:.
I died at x-410, Z1254, Y10... so the spawner should be along the Y axis.

TinCow

01-03-2014, 14:44

Found another Zombi spawner looking for iron in some abandoned mines.
location (standing on the spawner): X-467, Z1312, Y29

Thanks, I'll come grab it next time I can get on.

TinCow

01-03-2014, 15:17

FYI, I've been looking for additional plugins for the server for a while. Here are some of the ones I have found that I think might work well on our server:

CraftBack (http://dev.bukkit.org/bukkit-plugins/craftbackforbukkit-1-5/) - A recycling plugin to get raw materials back from crafted items. The recipe list posted in the description says its outdated, so I have no clue what the final recipe list would look like. If I install this I will make sure that every new recipe would involve the loss of at least a small part of the original materials, for balance.

Clockwork Planter (http://dev.bukkit.org/bukkit-plugins/clockwork-planter/) - A new craftable item that can plant wheat, potatoes, and carrots. This is a function that I think has been sorely needed in vanilla minecraft for a while, and would make farming a lot less of a chore.

BetterEnderChest (http://dev.bukkit.org/bukkit-plugins/ender-chest/) - This one can do a bunch of things, but I'm only interested in it for one aspect of it: public Ender Chests. If I install this and Lockette, we can have to versions of Ender Chests, private and public. Ender Chests can be 'locked' with Lockette so that they work as private chests like they do now. However, by not 'locking' the chest it becomes a public chest accessible by anyone, just like Ender Chests were when they were first introduced. That could be extremely useful to help with cooperative projects, as players could contribute resources by simply dumping them in a public chest for someone else on the other side of the world to take out, without the need for a really long walk to transport resources to a different player.

Citizens2 (http://wiki.citizensnpcs.co/Citizens_Wiki) with Sentry (http://dev.bukkit.org/bukkit-plugins/sentry-citizens2/) - In short, make NPCs more useful, particularly by allowing them to be guards and fight off monsters, while equipping the items you give them. Citizens2 also has a bunch of other NPC-role plugins available to add stuff like repair abilities (http://wiki.citizensnpcs.co/Blacksmith) and potion brewing (http://wiki.citizensnpcs.co/Alchemist). I really like the idea of using this, but I'm concerned its a bit unbalanced. There needs to be some cost associated with hiring one of these NPCs, and I'm not sure yet whether I can add such a cost. If I can't, I'm not sure adding this is a good idea.

Thoughts on any of these? Anyone have any other plugins they think would mesh well with our 'Vanilla Plus' style server?

rajpoot

01-03-2014, 16:25

Teleport+ (http://dev.bukkit.org/bukkit-plugins/teleportplus/) does not have much by the way of use, but if enable limited teleporting (like the /home command, which is awesome!) then it might jazz things up.

Also, in case CraftBack is outdated, it might be worthwhile to check De-Craft (http://dev.bukkit.org/bukkit-plugins/decraft/) out. As far as I understand it's the same thing, but it also lets you smelt some items back to original instead of simply being able to decraft them.

TinCow

01-03-2014, 17:00

rajpoot

01-03-2014, 17:16

/home has been available to everyone for a very long time. Check the list of commands in the OP.

Oh I know that, I remember you had mentioned it in the message too. What I meant was that the teleport commands are like our /home command, and can be limited to some extent like our /home command (timeout etc). And that I feel that the /home command really awesome.

TinCow

01-03-2014, 17:25

Oh I know that, I remember you had mentioned it in the message too. What I meant was that the teleport commands are like our /home command, and can be limited to some extent like our /home command (timeout etc). And that I feel that the /home command really awesome.

The /home delay and cooldown are done through essentials and can apply to any teleport command in the Essentials command list (http://wiki.ess3.net/wiki/Command_Reference), including the teleport options in that plugin. As such, we can already do that without adding another plugin. Which other teleport commands would you like to have access to?

rajpoot

01-03-2014, 18:14

None in particular actually. The reason I linked to that plugin is because I liked the visual effects it adds. :sweatdrop:
I guess I should've explained this motive better in the original post.

BSmith

01-03-2014, 19:02

I love the planter and public ender chest! I vote to implement them.

The others I am more neutral on, though it would be pretty cool to have villager guards for my town.

Tamur

01-03-2014, 20:23

I'm more of a sightseer around here lately, but villager guards (and villagers with other/better roles) sounds like a great addition to me.

Sigurd

01-03-2014, 20:35

*scouring the net for a block breaker plugin*

Nigel

01-03-2014, 23:01

I really like the idea of doing something more useful with villager in addition to trade.
Agree that we may want to look carefully at it and not create unbalance in our world - but I think it is worth exploring the possibilites.

Thumbs up on the other plug-ins, too.

spankythehippo

01-04-2014, 01:36

Clockwork Planter is very, very attractive. So is the BetterEnderChest. I also quite like the idea of having my own NPC guard. Maybe they need to be hired for 1 diamond block or something.

Vinitharya

01-05-2014, 01:38

Clockwork Planter is very, very attractive. So is the BetterEnderChest. I also quite like the idea of having my own NPC guard. Maybe they need to be hired for 1 diamond block or something.

The price for a killable guard seems a bit much, but I pretty much concur with the rest.

Ishmael

01-07-2014, 08:34

TinCow

01-07-2014, 14:13

It's a bit of a long shot, but would anybody have a Silk Touch enchanted book that they'd be willing to part with? I can offer in trade any or all of the seven books I enchanted myself before giving up.

Actually, yes. therother gave it to me early on when I was still looking for a silk touch pick, but I got several silk touch picks immediately afterwards and did not end up using it. You're welcome to take it. No need to give anything in return, as it was simply gifted to me as well.

Nigel

01-07-2014, 18:08

BSmith

01-07-2014, 18:42

It may take a while, but you can get saddles from fishing now.

TinCow

01-07-2014, 19:07

As we are talking about trading: does anyone have a saddle to spare?
I am willing to trade a diamond for it. As I have recently hit upon a little streak of diamond ore I now have a few of them - but also a horse with nothing to ride it.

Scienter and I have more saddles than we need. I'd be happy to trade a diamond for one. You can find our saddles in a solitary chest in our portal room. We intend to add a stables (and rail station) in there eventually, but its low priority.

Sigurd

01-07-2014, 22:22

I have a few saddles as well, but I guess you'd be closer to mr. and mrs. TinCow's lair.

Looking at the map, I notice that people are building at and very close to the spawn... We are still planning to build a city, right? With the iron farm/n00b hotel/sky scraper as the center piece. Should we announce that building at spawn is considered temporary and will be bulldozed should the city need space? Announce in game perhaps as I suspect not all are actually reading this thread.

Nigel

01-08-2014, 00:03

Thanks TinCow, I found it.

And Sigurd, I think it might be a good idea to make people aware that we have plans for that area.
The large wooden tower was build by, Ivanthefox, who seldom reads the forum. I will talk to him next time I see him online.

TinCow

01-11-2014, 15:32

I have added the following plugins:
De-Craft (http://dev.bukkit.org/bukkit-plugins/decraft/)
Scribe (http://dev.bukkit.org/bukkit-plugins/scribe/)
ClockworkPlanter (http://dev.bukkit.org/bukkit-plugins/clockwork-planter/)

Scribe and ClockworkPlanter work exactly as described on their pages. De-Craft as well, but it is set to return only 80% of the resources, not 100%. As always, more info available in the OP. I will probably be adding more plugins this weekend.

TinCow

01-11-2014, 16:27

Dynmap Markers are now enabled. That basically means that you can now add labeled icons to the map wherever you want. Labels are added by placing signs and writing [dynmap] on the top line. The next line will be the label that displays on the map. All markers will default to a 'sign' icon unless you specify a different icon. To do so, on another line add icon:XXXX where XXXX is the name of the icon you want. The icon list can be found here (http://dev.bukkit.org/media/images/34/116/Markers.png). Do not use spaces for icon names. For example, an icon for Big House would be icon:bighouse. Here is an example of how to write the sign:

11764

That sign will create a marker that reads "Test Sign" with the tower icon. Markers can be removed by breaking the sign.

Please feel free to start naming whatever you want on the server. I think it would be very fun to give names to certain interesting terrain features, such as mountains, oceans, etc. Just because it's naturally generated instead of man-made doesn't mean we can't name it. I would like to request, though, that any markers labeling natural terrain use the tree icon, for consistency.