17er Saints and Martyrs [Archive] - Page 11

View Full Version : 17er Saints and Martyrs

Pages : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 [11] 12

EnderWiggin

02-26-2024, 11:16

Actually you know what? My post about me being in wolf chat with Syn and deciding to exclude you would have been elite if we were actually just both wolves.

I accept this sus.

Raskolnikov

02-26-2024, 11:24

Actually you know what? My post about me being in wolf chat with Syn and deciding to exclude you would have been elite if we were actually just both wolves.

I accept this sus.

I'd love it to be real tbh. But I am afraid I 've reached the phase Gemma TMIed you villa.

i mean i was appreciating it

silently but still

i also village read you for it!

I also think I cannot wolfread Hally ever. (even if it's fun :book2:)

Raskolnikov

02-26-2024, 11:41

don't tell GH but I am stoked he's playing again

also I think he's v so far but we're still in shitposting

based on what?

gut feeling is part of it

also he's not tryharding and like...he tends to when he wolfs because he doesn't want to let his team down

seems like a stretch and an odd thing to have as your first read when he has pretty explicitly done nothing

i mean gh is plenty tryhard as a villager too, usually when we're v/v i'll have poked fun at him for getting serious with tryhard reads so early

that's why i gave a caveat

GH tries harder as a wolf though and he likely would have tried to do something by now if he were a wolf. The very fact he's doing nothing is kind of a good look

really not a fan of this.

Mostly because the read isn't logical and is soften by the what makes it unlogical in the first place:

it's because it was early that this read on GH can hold. The fact the game was still in rvs shouldn't be a caveat, since it's the root of the read. Need to check Zack's read on Dya at EOD tbh.

Raskolnikov

02-26-2024, 11:53

found it

Confused by people saying they're swayed by dya's posting today, it honestly seems almost exactly how they tend wolf ime? Little breadth to their reads, hyper-focused on finding one person to go back and forth with. I don't think they are villagy at all.

poor GH/Logic chopped back to back when it was Dya from the beginning :curtain:

Raskolnikov

02-26-2024, 11:59

Gemma seems ok

back to wolfreading Benneh :curtain:

gonna leave for a few hours. I do have work stuff to do today. l8r gamers.

Raskolnikov

02-26-2024, 12:02

You asked about my process, well I shared it. I didn't post the whole thing but I did share the results I got when doing it, IMO. The process is not "why Ender killed Benneh," or even who killed who on whatever night, so I explained it poorly.

Eh, just vote me out, that's probably best.

ok coming back to this because I don't want to be jerkish. But like you ok process/results. Now explain to me why Benneh being killed last night points specifically to Ender. With posts/reads/etc. I am just trying to understand if that's real or just the fact you saw it'd be your only path to victory so yoloed it.

Raskolnikov

02-26-2024, 12:56

mm okay, i think your expectations of what rask would do as wolf might be off because you’re very comfortable posting a ton and pushing villagers and power wolfing and stuff but i don’t think most wolves are actually like that, and though afaik rask is not a bad wolf i don’t thiiiink he’s that kind of wolf

I am totally that kind of wolf bitch. I am just not very good at it so it doesn't work against good villas. (vs Visors and Enders sure :curtain: )

(sorry it's a wasted post but the urge to correct my wolf meta in a wifomy way and shitpost is there)

Raskolnikov

02-26-2024, 12:59

really not a fan of this.

Mostly because the read isn't logical and is soften by the what could make it logical in the first place:

it's because it was early that this read on GH can hold. The fact the game was still in rvs shouldn't be a caveat, since it's the root of the read. Need to check Zack's read on Dya at EOD tbh.

EBWOP

Hally

02-26-2024, 15:52

Hally why is Vanta a villager? Look what is happening rn.
i mean, i wouldn’t expect a wolf to go through the process of figuring out what each kill they could make would do, pick someone to NK based on that, and then post about it unprompted and basically tell people “hey i thought a lot about it and here’s why i decided to kill this guy”?

i agree it’s a weird thought process for a villager to have as opposed to just reacting to the kill when you see what it is, but it feels kinda too on the nose? if they’re a wolf they can just like… not say that lol

dyachei

02-26-2024, 18:42

dyachei

02-26-2024, 18:48

i'll copy ladd but with 99% less effort

v
zack
hally
rask
benneh

light v
ender
jan
ladd?

light w
gh?

benneh maybe too high but their wallpost is tbh probably the villageriest thing in the entire thread

hally because i find myself mindmelding with a lot of their posts, they seem liek they dont give a shit and just push on whatever big villa energy etc

rask kind of occupying the same space just smaller and more unhinged

jan having basically 3 reads this entire game and 2 of them being v charitable v reads is doing ntohing for his wincon if hes a wolf which im fine with for day 1

gh bad tocuh on logic, havnet hugely liked the way hes spent his ofcus so far this game too lazy to elaborate

everyone else nfc

syn had the thing where he basically ignored me when i asked him why he was w reading ender, he did say things later but eh

murska jan w reads them which predisposes me to do the same, they also seem like the kind of player/style id struggle to get a read on, literally zero opinion

vanta maybe their saying they're just going to read ppl based on avatar is actually openwolfing and i shouldnt be giving them a pass idk

so ye none of the lowposter yeets are particularly inpsiring but ig thats par for the course

keeps giving vanta a pass but also ender light v without much explanation

i fell asleep and dreamed that i had shit my pants and woke up scared but was quickly relieved that no i had not shat my pants

but then i looked at the screen and saw this mafia game and wished i was back having that dream again

and i was rereading eod2 and i think its genuinely an amount possible 0 wolves were bussing this entire game and they were counting on visor to dodge the yeet somehow but he just got caught between a pr and a slot everyone v read, or maybe he felt he had to go big or no one would bite (or maybe he was setting benneh up for f3 :curtain:), or insert option c, whatever the reason i did get the sense he was genuinely trying to not be yote and also i dont know why you even bother otherwise

Visor (7) : Raskolnikov, Benneh, Hally, Vanta, Arctic, Murska, Ladd

literally i v read all these people except vanta and the idea of vanta out on an island bussing visor is idk absurd/comical to me

which would mean the team has to be in logic/wisdom/dya/enderç

which would also mean game is actually not that hard and i dont have to be fucking mortified of history repeating itself

and my lids are so close to closed i cant entirely tell if im not still dreaming

dismisses vanta as a possibility again very quickly.

Vanta Black

02-26-2024, 18:53

This is early D2, speculation on what Zack was right about that made him the NK.

Doesn't this make logic almost assuredly wolf? I can't imagine wolves wouldn't have gotten their shit together to kill him otherwise
Some players, of note, Jan, presed dya about it at the time. Zack had spread some suspicion, and here’s what dya picked up on:

If logic is a wolf there's a high chance gh is too.

And visor might be but I'm not sure there yet. I'd like to hear more about the wolf reads therr

Jan asks dya for a reason Visor is a villa

no but I dont really have reasons he's a wolf either. Just that he could be one. Where i have reasons I think logic +/- GH could be wolves

I would say these conjectures have not aged well. Zack had expressed some suspicion about other players, too, but focusing only on the ones that turn out to be wrong seems shifty in retrospect.

Raskolnikov

02-26-2024, 18:57

if anyone is willing to help (Dya too fwiw), I am struggling with this rn

i'm mildly concerned with visor cause he feels more 'bouncy' this game and i feel like some of his joke-y posts feel misplaced but it could just be a me thing

and his meta over the last 3 games would really allow him to post this way as a wolf and get away with it but i admit its not much to go on

Benneh's outing some concerns about Visor

if you look at the last game, that may be true for early game but later game he brought it

Dya chimes in to add to Visor's recent meta, but actually in a way that should decrease Benneh's suss.

Note that they outed a null read on Visor a couple of posts before and Visor didn't post in between ofc:

Visor i'm still waiting for more on. But I do think it's a good look he sort of defended me because it would have been easy to not and I've found him as wolf before.

But then I articulate why I was townreading Visor most of D1:

I'd expect wolf!Visor to still have more presence with this particular roster tbh (also check last game he woofed here, first game Sunbae hosted here in 2023 iirc). works for D1 I guess lol

And this happens:

i like this post. Idk, if rask is a wolf, he just made the game harder on himself than he needed to

Here, it's pretty clear Dya's working on the principle Visor is town, which huh, why? Even if they didn't, there was the possibility of both us being ww (or me potentially turning around l8r after a couple of posts).

So I am not sure they didn't actually went out of their way to justify a town read that I was already being handed by stronk villas (Ladd, Zack, Jan at the very least, maybe Hally. can't remember). or TMI?

Thoughts?

dyachei

02-26-2024, 19:11

if it helps i didnt hate ur post hally

i just didnt really feel storngly about any of it

the w/w stuff specifically is whatever to me i think you're more likely to just confibias yourself than anything but you do you

who is blade

are you talking about ender

uh idk it seemed like the kind of stupid shit i'd do to amuse myself and i liked him for it

i dont actually have any intention of voting gh at eod because something something bropass or whatever

i wanted to just sheep visor but i also dont really want to vote vanta idk why

not yoting hally/rask/zack/jan/ender today

dya is happiness kryptonite so not touching that

i'll copy ladd but with 99% less effort

v
zack
hally
rask
benneh

light v
ender
jan
ladd?

light w
gh?

benneh maybe too high but their wallpost is tbh probably the villageriest thing in the entire thread

hally because i find myself mindmelding with a lot of their posts, they seem liek they dont give a shit and just push on whatever big villa energy etc

rask kind of occupying the same space just smaller and more unhinged

jan having basically 3 reads this entire game and 2 of them being v charitable v reads is doing ntohing for his wincon if hes a wolf which im fine with for day 1

gh bad tocuh on logic, havnet hugely liked the way hes spent his ofcus so far this game too lazy to elaborate

everyone else nfc

syn had the thing where he basically ignored me when i asked him why he was w reading ender, he did say things later but eh

murska jan w reads them which predisposes me to do the same, they also seem like the kind of player/style id struggle to get a read on, literally zero opinion

vanta maybe their saying they're just going to read ppl based on avatar is actually openwolfing and i shouldnt be giving them a pass idk

so ye none of the lowposter yeets are particularly inpsiring but ig thats par for the course

i fell asleep and dreamed that i had shit my pants and woke up scared but was quickly relieved that no i had not shat my pants

but then i looked at the screen and saw this mafia game and wished i was back having that dream again

and i was rereading eod2 and i think its genuinely an amount possible 0 wolves were bussing this entire game and they were counting on visor to dodge the yeet somehow but he just got caught between a pr and a slot everyone v read, or maybe he felt he had to go big or no one would bite (or maybe he was setting benneh up for f3 :curtain:), or insert option c, whatever the reason i did get the sense he was genuinely trying to not be yote and also i dont know why you even bother otherwise

Visor (7) : Raskolnikov, Benneh, Hally, Vanta, Arctic, Murska, Ladd

literally i v read all these people except vanta and the idea of vanta out on an island bussing visor is idk absurd/comical to me

which would mean the team has to be in logic/wisdom/dya/enderç

which would also mean game is actually not that hard and i dont have to be fucking mortified of history repeating itself

and my lids are so close to closed i cant entirely tell if im not still dreaming

if anyone is willing to help (Dya too fwiw), I am struggling with this rn

Benneh's outing some concerns about Visor

Dya chimes in to add to Visor's recent meta, but actually in a way that should decrease Benneh's suss.

Note that they outed a null read on Visor a couple of posts before and Visor didn't post in between ofc:

But then I articulate why I was townreading Visor most of D1:

And this happens:

Here, it's pretty clear Dya's working on the principle Visor is town, which huh, why? Even if they didn't, there was the possibility of both us being ww (or me potentially turning around l8r after a couple of posts).

So I am not sure they didn't actually went out of their way to justify a town read that I was already being handed by stronk villas (Ladd, Zack, Jan at the very least, maybe Hally. can't remember). or TMI?

Thoughts?

i wasn't working on that principle, i didn't have a strong read on him. The last post was me pointing out that visor was going to be a relatively easy elim regardless of his alignment. and you're making the game harder on yourself if YOU were a wolf because if visor was a miselim you were giving it up easily, and if visor were a wolf, you weren't making a cred grab

idk it made sense to me at the time

But as I said earlier, I'm not really gonna fight today because I deserve to die for my shitty play.

I'm just trying to find who you should elim after you flip me village

Vanta Black

02-26-2024, 19:33

this feels w/v

idk if this is wifom or not. But like it would be easy to fake not knowing that blade is ender...but at the same time makes me wonder if they're partnered

just kind of want to point out that gemma was keeping as a viable option. Also if you think i let my wolf bro call me happiness kryptonite you're insane

Is this a villa thought? Sure not something it would occor to me to say, but different playstyles, eh?

Raskolnikov

02-26-2024, 21:08

i think it's kind o disingenuous to say soandso won't be d1ed here because it's a strong player list across the board. Arctic has made me actively wolf read him while syn is doing things that syn does as both alignments

https://www.reactiongifs.com/r/embarassed-for-u.gif

Arctic

02-26-2024, 21:24

aight im here

ngl i've been pretty lazy these past few days idk why

i feel pretty disconnected from this game maybe cuz it's a new site with new people

but im gonna force myself to spend the next few hours here reading through everything

Arctic

02-26-2024, 21:25

Yeah, I am pretty much guaranteed to fuck up in f3, so yeah, I could be on a Vote Vanta campaign. No self vote at this point but if I get to 3 ....

But meanwhile, I did overnight homework to the tune of trying to figure out why everybody who was here was still here. And then trying to guess who the NK would be. And then making a little chart to the effect of "if the NK is XXX, then vote YYY."

I don't know why I was all cagey with the XXs and YYs there, "If the NK is Benneh, vote Ender." Some of them were reciprocal (if dya vote Hally, but I thought that pretty unlikely).

If last woof is Rask or Arctic that is very high levels of method acting (particularly Arctic) and I tip my hat to your artful and sustained deception.

There's no way to prove this but I did think Benneh was most likely NK.

can u show the whole thing if u actually made it lol
i do agree tho benneh dying between me/benneh/rask is a slight nudge towards it being ender since he was the most openly critical there

Arctic

02-26-2024, 21:25

average arctic town game

STFU

Arctic

02-26-2024, 21:29

rn I am at OK Vanta just saw they need Ender dead today and will bring Dya/hally in F3 to win. (NKing me/Arctic in whatever order)

glgl

I don't see what's so complicated about his pov unless I'm just assuming it's for the same think I was thinking which was that benneh didn't have ender as town but me and you did

Vanta Black

02-26-2024, 21:43

ok coming back to this because I don't want to be jerkish. But like you ok process/results. Now explain to me why Benneh being killed last night points specifically to Ender. With posts/reads/etc. I am just trying to understand if that's real or just the fact you saw it'd be your only path to victory so yoloed it.

Ah okay. It's actually one process (pretend I'm scum, who am I not killing and why), and then also me deciding who is most likely to be NK tonight, kind of another process entirely. For the one I get Ender, for the other I get Benneh. Benneh is NK, so I was right with one, so maybe I'm right with the other.

Now I'm thinking not.

There was only a slight correlation and I didn't explain well, possibly not here either.

Raskolnikov

02-26-2024, 22:14

I don't see what's so complicated about his pov unless I'm just assuming it's for the same think I was thinking which was that benneh didn't have ender as town but me and you did

it's not complicated lmao.

What has been complicated is getting her to actually type it.
Also it's BS because whoever is the wolf needed Benneh dead. Both him and I were basically unyeetable but he is a better player (this post will self-erase in 30 seconds). so like y.

I wanted to understand if she believed in what she was saying or as I said, if she saw it was her only path to victory.

Raskolnikov

02-26-2024, 22:19

Ah okay. It's actually one process (pretend I'm scum, who am I not killing and why), and then also me deciding who is most likely to be NK tonight, kind of another process entirely. For the one I get Ender, for the other I get Benneh. Benneh is NK, so I was right with one, so maybe I'm right with the other.

Now I'm thinking not.

There was only a slight correlation and I didn't explain well, possibly not here either.

See Arctic, I am still not getting the "if then ;else;" of the first process which is what is interesting me. I think I have asked it pretty clearly, repeatdly and nicely lol. But still no words. Guess it's a lie heh.

fwiw I do not care about the second process giving Benneh. As explained, that was always the case. So not so usefull to get the solve.

Hally

02-26-2024, 22:20

https://www.reactiongifs.com/r/embarassed-for-u.gif
oh this reminds me

yesterday i took a look at syn’s posts when he was a villager in the two motion detect games he and dya played on here together to see if it was plausible that v!dya could think syn was completely rand this game based on meta

and my conclusion was that he did seem different enough from his town games that dya probably should not have thought he was rand but probably not different enough that them thinking he was rand is like outing

extremely helpful post yw

Hally

02-26-2024, 22:25

it's not complicated lmao.

What has been complicated is getting her to actually type it.
Also it's BS because whoever is the wolf needed Benneh dead. Both him and I were basically unyeetable but he is a better player (this post will self-erase in 30 seconds). so like y.

I wanted to understand if she believed in what she was saying or as I said, if she saw it was her only path to victory.
tbf i’m not sure vanta knows who benneh is so they couldn’t know what a mistake it was to kill such a bum

(though maybe they could pick it up from wolfchat when they discussed who to kill)

Raskolnikov

02-26-2024, 22:26

oh this reminds me

yesterday i took a look at syn’s posts when he was a villager in the two motion detect games he and dya played on here together to see if it was plausible that v!dya could think syn was completely rand this game based on meta

and my conclusion was that he did seem different enough from his town games that dya probably should not have thought he was rand but probably not different enough that them thinking he was rand is like outing

extremely helpful post yw

node, very usefull :curtain:

@Vanta: sorry to sound agro. I am just gueninely frustrated by your replies toDay. I am not shrug voting you because it's likely our last available ML if we fail so I wanna take the time lol

dyachei

02-26-2024, 22:30

Vote: vanta

I have no energy for today. I expended it all looking at Gemma iso

Arctic

02-26-2024, 22:32

This and some other GH posts are pinging me today. I have been in some games where the wolves just loved coming into the thread and "speculating" about the reasons for the NK.

From my POV Logic was the least likely NK. Or maybe third from last.

ironic

Hally

02-26-2024, 22:36

Hally

02-26-2024, 22:43

Raskolnikov

02-26-2024, 22:57

I am just trying to solve her more reliably than "she is pure", "no wolf posts this because lol glgl", etc etc.

Raskolnikov

02-26-2024, 23:02

i still feel like nobody has actually offered any reason why vanta is wolfy and i’m not really down to shrug lunch someone that nobody can articulate a case for the day before mylo when i’m probably gonna be the unlucky bozo with the hammer in F3 if we miss

rn I'd say I am more likely to vote Dya anyway, but I wish to take all avenues before EOD.

(also, lettuce imagine we flip Dya and they are villa, I am so going for you in F4 after these last two posts :curtain: )

Arctic

02-26-2024, 23:13

i've read all of vanta's posts and like... nothing is really pinging me in either direction honestly

i still have the thought that they don't really feel like a wolf because they'd have to be playing a god tier game for me to post across 7 days without leaking anything really implicating themselves

the only thing that doesn't quite add up is the thing hally brought up about the logic push based on logic voting them when they asked to be pushed but i.. don't really think i care much about a random contradiction on day 2, there should probably be something more if this is a wolf?

i guess what i keep coming back to is the thought on murska/rask being the deepwolves (1725 originally) - does a wolf come up with smth like this?? also does a wolf bother asking in the thread if the factional kill is mandatory instead of in wolf chat? i wanna say probably not

one other thing to note is that at the eod of the day we were killing logic, vanta dropped a post saying they'd also be willing to vote gemma or wisdom and i kinda don't think the wolf would quite want gemma to die there just yet. maybe it doesn't mean much because we were still clearly killing logic regardless of anything (at least when they made this post) but it's something to think about

i dunno if i should take issue with how they handled yesterday, it kinda felt like they already decided they were gonna push wisdom and i don't think they had much at all to say about dya other than thinking hally's case was good but still not really being willing to entertain a vote there. but their posts just before theyh thought they were gonna get hammered seem pretty convincing to me (page 80)

Arctic

02-26-2024, 23:14

i still feel like nobody has actually offered any reason why vanta is wolfy and i’m not really down to shrug lunch someone that nobody can articulate a case for the day before mylo when i’m probably gonna be the unlucky bozo with the hammer in F3 if we miss

we all know you just want to keep the shrug lynch around for the free win in f3

Arctic

02-26-2024, 23:15

rn I'd say I am more likely to vote Dya anyway, but I wish to take all avenues before EOD.

(also, lettuce imagine we flip Dya and they are villa, I am so going for you in F4 after these last two posts :curtain: )

lmaooo mindmeld

Vanta Black

02-26-2024, 23:17

rask ngl i don’t really get why you have such an issue with vanta’s posts today

i mean i wish they would talk about literally anything else besides the kill but i don’t think NK speculation is wolfy in a vacuum

I will talk about literally anything else. I had a post where it sure looks to me like dya is nudging votes on Logic and GH but not visor, beig pressed a little on it, but in retrospect it doesn't look towny.

It is true that I don't know who Benneh is but is that important right now?

Also not important rn, probably, is to clarify that when Gemma put out that silly claim I knew it was fake, and silly, and I wanted to vote Gemma right then. But I didn't because I wasn't sure of the VC at that point and I didn't want to accidentally hammer. Keep in mind that I am coming from a board where plurality is the default and there is always a way to see the actual VC at the moment. Anyway I wanted to say something. So I kinda said the stupidest possible thing and that seems to have pinged Rask a bit. When he said I looked dodgy because of the claim I did not pick up what he was getting at, because I'm slow!

Right now I am leaning toward voting dya for a lot of what I think are good reasons.

Hally

02-26-2024, 23:20

Hally

02-26-2024, 23:39

I will talk about literally anything else. I had a post where it sure looks to me like dya is nudging votes on Logic and GH but not visor, beig pressed a little on it, but in retrospect it doesn't look towny.

It is true that I don't know who Benneh is but is that important right now?

Also not important rn, probably, is to clarify that when Gemma put out that silly claim I knew it was fake, and silly, and I wanted to vote Gemma right then. But I didn't because I wasn't sure of the VC at that point and I didn't want to accidentally hammer. Keep in mind that I am coming from a board where plurality is the default and there is always a way to see the actual VC at the moment. Anyway I wanted to say something. So I kinda said the stupidest possible thing and that seems to have pinged Rask a bit. When he said I looked dodgy because of the claim I did not pick up what he was getting at, because I'm slow!

Right now I am leaning toward voting dya for a lot of what I think are good reasons.
what reasons?

dyachei

02-27-2024, 00:03

Time for people to give solves for when I flip v

Vanta Black

02-27-2024, 00:32

Reasons for dya: D2, right after Zack flip with Zack having called out several players, dya comes right in and says clearly that means GH and Logic gotta be wolves, picking out two who turned out to be town out of all Zack had sussed; calls Arctic's vote at EoD1 "agendaed" when it was a vote on a wolf so what was the agenda? Agreed with a lot of Hally's case. Today: The bit about "I don't let my scumbuds call me happiness kryptonite" today, why say that now and not when it happened? It sounds like double distancing, first when Gemma said it and then again when Dya called it out.

(Also FML I keep typing "jan" when I mean to type "Gemma" I don't know what's my problem. Believe I have corrected all of them but possibly not.)

Oh yean and OMGUS, dya is now voting for a villager.

Vanta Black

02-27-2024, 00:36

Time for people to give solves for when I flip v

1. ender
2. Ender
3. Rask, who has been towning up the thread for days, which I know he can do. what I don't see is Rask cominng out of the gate bussing all three partners. I guess at first it was just the one, but it went on. At least I know he's not w/w with Murska!
4. Dya apparently thinks it's me, so same question to Dya, when I flip v then who?

dyachei

02-27-2024, 00:38

1. ender
2. Ender
3. Rask, who has been towning up the thread for days, which I know he can do. what I don't see is Rask cominng out of the gate bussing all three partners. I guess at first it was just the one, but it went on. At least I know he's not w/w with Murska!
4. Dya apparently thinks it's me, so same question to Dya, when I flip v then who?

I'm at you or ender I think. If I'm still alive tomorrow I'll give enders iso a read but I'm hoping it won't be my problem.

I think hally has potential with this push but I think the majority of her stuff has been towny outside this case

dyachei

02-27-2024, 00:38

Rask is always town here. Never entertain tinfoil there. He's never partnered with visor

Hally

02-27-2024, 00:46

dya why do you think it’s vanta over ender?

dyachei

02-27-2024, 00:49

dya why do you think it’s vanta over ender?

The way the other wolves have treated vanta have me concerned and ender has some things that make them seem unpaired like pushes on him.

Arctic

02-27-2024, 00:57

Why are you discounting wisdom as a wolf, hally? What reasons do you have that you're clearing her from your POE

what do you think about what I posted regarding the visor spew from before EOD2 when it was clear he was going over (I mostly pulled from d1)

on another note

this is the current player list
Ender
Wisdom
Raskolnikov
Dyachei
Murska
Logic
Arctic
Ladd
Vanta Black
Hally
Benneh
Gemma

And this is how I would order it rn
Benneh
murska
rask
arctic
hally
vanta
ladd
ender
wisdom
logic
gemma

this is ignoring gemma's claim but I'm willing to give another day there

dya also had gemma at the bottom of their list before we even killed logic

Arctic

02-27-2024, 01:03

i've now read all of dya's posts and uh

this sounds horrendous but it is legitimately the AtE that is the strongest reason i have to call them town and this is pretty dubious going off what hally said that they do this sort of thing as mafia (even if that were true i'm not sure it would be at this level - i kind of feel they were telling the truth with the boundaries they've set but this is kind of getting into questionable territory so uhhh idk). i also just think a lot of their reads like me/gh playing too badly to be town are genuine, wolves rarely say this kind of thing

588 might be the towniest post in this iso lol, i dunno what wolf has the thought of "oh i should pop back into the thread to make sure ladd isn't being cleared for no reason right after i said i was leaving"

the way they opened day 2 with the logic push on the basis that wolves never tried pushing over logic kind of tells me they would have the mindset as mafia to do what they're saying here if they were mafia, but they didn't - in fact i don't really know what wolf!dya is trying to accomplish at eod1 with v/w wagons, first by trying to get people to cfd me (wasn't gonna happen) or by then going on gemma (small chance of happening) so i kind of think the way they handled it makes them more likely to be town

don't have many thoughts on their posting on later days except that the read on vanta possibly TMI'ing them since they aren't familiar reads pretty good

so uhm
now i don't really think either of dya/vanta are the wolf so ok now what
i guess this means i have to read ender/hally
and probably check how "spewed" ender actually is cuz i lowkey kinda think it's him rn. every nightkill has thought he was a wolf or at least had him in their poe

Arctic

02-27-2024, 01:04

Hally

02-27-2024, 01:08

The way the other wolves have treated vanta have me concerned and ender has some things that make them seem unpaired like pushes on him.
alright, well to answer you, if you flip v idfk

i agree associatives point more to vanta because i still think ender doesn’t look w/w with gemma

but maybe i’m crazy but just based on posting i actually feel vanta has been more pure? whereas ender particularly lately has played it more like how i would expect from a wolf if you’re v

Vanta Black

02-27-2024, 01:08

Went back over Syn, who did not mention any partners known so far, did mention Ender and said killing him would be fun.

Arctic

02-27-2024, 01:09

dyachei

02-27-2024, 01:11

alright, well to answer you, if you flip v idfk

i agree associatives point more to vanta because i still think ender doesn’t look w/w with gemma

but maybe i’m crazy but just based on posting i actually feel vanta has been more pure? whereas ender particularly lately has played it more like how i would expect from a wolf if you’re v
The latter is the thing giving me most pause but it probably won't matter with how today is going

I have no energy to.fight anymore and I had hoped that being quieter today would allow for.more posting from the rest of the poe but enders been pretty low key. I'm very concerned and don't feel super strongly that it's vanta over him

Arctic

02-27-2024, 01:11

Hallo

it just felt real forced while i was catching uo, maybe ill re read the exchange better later (or maybe not)

Syn feels super different from all their other org games and they were a villager in all of them so uh not a good sign

https://i.imgur.com/oOJEmzM.png

vote: EnderWiggin

this

dyachei

02-27-2024, 01:14

this

If you want you can have my vote if you feel strongly about this. I will vote with you.

Vanta Black

02-27-2024, 01:15

dya also had gemma at the bottom of their list before we even killed logic

That list is suspect as hell because it has me above Ladd--and that is a change from previous list--and at that point Ladd was IC. Believe Ladd even mentioned it.

Raskolnikov

02-27-2024, 01:16

The latter is the thing giving me most pause but it probably won't matter with how today is going

I have no energy to.fight anymore and I had hoped that being quieter today would allow for.more posting from the rest of the poe but enders been pretty low key. I'm very concerned and don't feel super strongly that it's vanta over him

Ender's silence is what is giving me the most pause tbh. It feels like he doesn't want to disturb the thread flow which is concerning. How about we don't vote before he produce stuff

dyachei

02-27-2024, 01:16

I literally forgot Ladd was a tree stump villager when he was. Just as a bit of wifom wouldn't a wolf remember who they killed?

dyachei

02-27-2024, 01:17

unvote

Hally

02-27-2024, 01:18

The problem I have with the spew from syn's side is that they only started the ender push in quite literally the post after the one where rask said syn was outted from meta, and they reacted to that post too so they clearly saw it, and so there's a chance the entire thing was antispew
this is why i never cared about syn’s push on ender

i wouldn’t even be surprised if syn knew he was completely fucked wolfing in this player list and was in antispew even before he got called out tbh

he made like zero effort to post or stay alive lol

his actual good associative is from gemma

Arctic

02-27-2024, 01:23

https://i.imgur.com/oOJEmzM.png

vote: EnderWiggin

Hallo

it just felt real forced while i was catching uo, maybe ill re read the exchange better later (or maybe not)

Syn feels super different from all their other org games and they were a villager in all of them so uh not a good sign

and yes vanta if you are a protective role you should definitely just be ccing murska here

what does this mean people

Arctic

02-27-2024, 01:23

GOD STOP QUOTING ALL OF THE POSTS I ONLY MEANT TO QUOTE THE LAST ONE

Arctic

02-27-2024, 01:27

okay but the problem is from gemma's side ender does seem likely spewed

seems like a pretty classic case of wolf seeing a villa playing weirdly and getting heat early for it and then defends them in a performative way, idt many wolves see their partner getting heat for the kind of things ender does and then half-ass defend them but also let the sus on them continue (see: the post where gemma responded to an accusation on ender and just said "oh guess i'm bad", her asking ben to explain the read more, her saying "why tho" in response to a vote on him)

Arctic

02-27-2024, 01:28

Ender's silence is what is giving me the most pause tbh. It feels like he doesn't want to disturb the thread flow which is concerning. How about we don't vote before he produce stuff

well it works for me cuz i'm european too but i dunno about anyone else

Raskolnikov

02-27-2024, 01:30

what does this mean people

you can't quote? :curtain:

on lvl0 I'd say PR hunt but needs to recall GEmma's situation itt before commiting, which I don't remember rn. And I need the sleep rn. will look tmr morning if no maj

Hally

02-27-2024, 01:31

he made like zero effort to post or stay alive loll
this is part of the reason i thought logic/syn could be w/w fwiw, it didn’t seem like syn cared to stay alive over logic which fit with syn being a backup and logic potentially a better role

i can’t remember if i ever said it though but anyway obv dumb

arctic i dunno, i hate this part of the game where people just quote random stuff wolves said and try to read tea leaves

genuinely my least favorite way to solve and imo one of the least reliable

Vanta Black

02-27-2024, 01:32

well it works for me cuz i'm european too but i dunno about anyone else

EoD is at 7am for me, the shenanigans if any probably start 530am, I will not be present.

530pm for me right now.

Arctic

02-27-2024, 01:36

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/39378-CFC-Desperado-14er-Game-Thread?p=6808804#post6808804

from ender's last wolfgame on MU

reading this has made me realize i've been townreading him for a lot of invalid things in this game, i was mainly checking this to see if him being all over the place was actually as town indicative as i thought it was (the answer is no)

Arctic

02-27-2024, 01:37

this is part of the reason i thought logic/syn could be w/w fwiw, it didn’t seem like syn cared to stay alive over logic which fit with syn being a backup and logic potentially a better role

i can’t remember if i ever said it though but anyway obv dumb

arctic i dunno, i hate this part of the game where people just quote random stuff wolves said and try to read tea leaves

genuinely my least favorite way to solve and imo one of the least reliable

ok but if we ignore the spew i vote ender here without a second thought

Vanta Black

02-27-2024, 01:55

Ender (as Bladescape) was town in the two games I played with him on Giraffe.* I was not town and I was scared of him. He was very solvy and intuitive. IIRC we killed him N1 in one of those games, fear kill, and would have in the other one if we could have.

I am not seeing so much solviness here.

*I think there may have been a couple more but can't remember.

Hally

02-27-2024, 02:14

ok but if we ignore the spew i vote ender here without a second thought
well i don’t think we should ignore all spew reads, just bad ones

i still think the ender one is prob a good one but i acknowledge that if i am massively wrong that would probably be where

Hally

02-27-2024, 02:17

i really don’t like what’s going on here lmao

god i’m too tired for this

Totally not Taffy

02-27-2024, 03:02

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/642356582704742420/1207133097884258334/36hr_Vote_Count.png?ex=65de894d&is=65cc144d&hm=5ead08d41d3091c470b4276fbaf463ce8bfa7983361afea8226a03c15655a7f0&

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/642356582704742420/1211800612883398656/Successive_Vote_Counts.png?ex=65ef8444&is=65dd0f44&hm=1e74075b73d674e87acf7887c3d50785a63dd7c80a550b6ce50decf667a10ef6&

I was waiting with this for someone to mention the missing 24hr vote count, but alas!

Vote Count

Dyachei (1) : Hally

Not voting: Raskolnikov, Vanta, Dyachei
Haven't voted: Arctic, Ender

Vote History

If you made a vote that wasn't counted, please link it to me on discord :heart:

Vote: Vanta
unvote
vote: Ender
vote: dya
Unvote
Vote: vanta
unvote

Post Counts
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/642356582704742420/1211852069762506802/image.png?ex=65efb430&is=65dd3f30&hm=f0384a2b7287c35165ade8c3358d35316413c59ef220c698f4845d3e8422aa6d&

EoD6 post counts for easy math:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/642356582704742420/1211455480686452746/EoD6_Post_Counts.png?ex=65ee42d6&is=65dbcdd6&hm=b299724b01bb40e189b7ecc68197d4caf39f828f1d5994c981b332988cacce3c&

Good night!

dyachei

02-27-2024, 03:09

i dont know that I'll be back for EOD. Anyone around?

Vanta Black

02-27-2024, 04:55

Could we sleep?

Vanta Black

02-27-2024, 05:08

Rask is always town here. Never entertain tinfoil there. He's never partnered with visor

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/929245669657571421/1211882069635108947/tinfoil_vantablack.jpg?ex=65efd021&is=65dd5b21&hm=60f4238da9de8d489bbd0448caceb3b9b42ba879c704d1678e2d95647ee2fad1&=&format=webp&width=507&height=304

Hally

02-27-2024, 05:28

sorry i passed out and can like barely keep my eyes open rn but i just need to get this out there cuz idk what you guys are doing

can you guys just look at dya’s solving today? i tried to lay off them to see what they would do without me pressuring them and they’ve done like nothing. it’s D7 after 3 wolf flips, there’s hundreds of posts between all of us that they can solve off of but all they came up with is two posts looking at spew, which is the easiest thing to talk about as a wolf, that seem to point to ender v (which they already thought last day) but then now when people are considering ender they’re willing to vote him over vanta despite the only work they did the entire day pointing to vanta over ender. it was the same with wisdom last day. one of the few things they did was iso wisdom and they said they were convinced she was a villager and then wisdom started wolf reading them and they were like “nvm die” lol

like, idk what they’re doing? i’ve never seen dya be so limp and directionless as a villager esp when there’s so much to work off of but it’s like they can barely get themselves to do anything and the little work they do they don’t even seem to believe in. idk maybe i’m just in a tunnel cuz i admit that some of their more emotional posts give me pause but it feels like they care more about getting people to kill anyone but them than finding the wolf and i have never felt like v!dya doesn’t care, they ALWAYS care so either they just became a different player while i was retired or they’re wolfing

also they said they were being quiet on purpose to let the PoE post more but what does that even mean. dya is in the PoE, how is them not posting gonna get vanta and ender to post more. why would they not post more so that they can solve with people since they don’t seem to have a solve they feel good about? or maybe so the villager wolf reading them can find them and maybe untunnel myself asdfshhjffyhhjhkj literally what are they doing i don’t understand

okay i’m stopping and going back to sleep cuz this probably became incoherent, idk if i can pop in for EoD but i’ll try, if not glgl i guess

EnderWiggin

02-27-2024, 09:11

EnderWiggin

02-27-2024, 09:12

Raskolnikov

02-27-2024, 09:14

Good post Hally.

Vote: Ender :curtain:

EnderWiggin

02-27-2024, 09:14

I also have never claimed to be out of my wolf-range. I like my wolf meta because, as I jokingly said in my MU Champs bio, most things aren't out of my wolf range.

Also would REALLY appreciate "Ender is quiet" reads stop happening when I have very consistently been posting in 1 period of the day phase which is (usually) around this time.

Oh no! I disappeared for 24 hours! I wonder if this could be the exact same pattern for the entire game (bar d1) or is he trying not to rock the boat!!!

EnderWiggin

02-27-2024, 09:16

Period of the IRL day not the in game day that is.

Raskolnikov

02-27-2024, 09:50

idk I feel much better about this vote than any other ones. Reread Ladd, Benneh, Syn, Gemma, Ender, looked at VCs and yeah. Sorry if wrong. glgl

(today is my my eldest bd, so not gonna pop too much, will try to be around for EOD, but you can maj, I'll allow it)

EnderWiggin

02-27-2024, 10:08

https://imgur.com/sGnw4Pp

Is it technically defending myself if the post is from a different game? =P

(I'm making a joke about how this intersects with Gemma's awkward first read on me.)

EnderWiggin

02-27-2024, 10:08

Image didn't show.

Sadge.

It was a post from another game where I said:
"95%-ish of the time I never see a partner enter thread and have their *only read* being a weird townread on their partner.

That just... doesn't happen. I can think of less than the number of fingers on my hands that I've seen it live in my years of mafia."

EnderWiggin

02-27-2024, 10:10

Also yeah wouldn't mind dying before F4/3 myself tbh. I have this gut feeling I'll be the ml of choice in f3 which sucks.

Dya can have that honour :curtain:

EnderWiggin

02-27-2024, 10:15

Update on thoughts:

Vanta's investigation around me is kinda good feeling. As much as their read is... irritating because of the difference in my play in the current day, I like the actual attempt.

Dya... I still feel like a town but I'm going back and forth because of our history misreading each other.

I just have a gut feeling that one of Hally/Arctic/Rask is actually wolf and idk what to do with that so I've been trawling through Visor's wolf games and reading back on other players wolf and seeing if I can play spot the difference.

Arctic does have the worst interactions with Visor for that, but I feel like this is me jumping back to an old and dumb sus. (Posts around the "Yikes" reactions that Visor did. He likes to react to partners with those reactions. Check his previous game with me/pzelda where he gave us both that reaction. He also has a reaction like that to Gemma on D1, as well as Arctic.)

Associatives are shit though which makes me feel meh because I don't feel like I have a grasp on much this game...

I like Hally's tunnel on Dya. It makes sense to me in terms of how their worldview would look.

This post is shit but I'm posting it anyway.

Vanta Black

02-27-2024, 10:48

vote: Ender

EnderWiggin

02-27-2024, 12:20

Random notation I did for myself that I'm posting in thread. Wolfy stuff.

Vote Ease of Use

Day 1
Arctic 1 - Rask

Arctic 2 - Rask, Murska

Arctic 2 - Rask, Murska
Benneh 1 - Zack

Arctic 2 - Rask, Murska
Logic 1 - Zack

Arctic 2 - Rask, Murska
Logic 2 - Zack, Visor

Logic 3 - Zack, Visor, Benneh
Arctic 2 - Rask, Murska

Logic 4 - Zack, Visor, Benneh, Hally
Arctic 2 - Rask, Murska

Logic 3 - Visor, Benneh, Hally
Arctic 2 - Rask, Murska
Visor 1 - Zack

Logic 3 - Visor, Benneh, Hally
Arctic 2 - Rask, Murska
Visor 1 - Zack
Jan 1 - Ender

Logic 3 - Visor, Benneh, Hally
Arctic 2 - Rask, Murska
Jan 1 - Ender
Ender 1 - Zack

Logic 3 - Visor, Benneh, Hally
Arctic 2 - Rask, Murska
Jan 1 - Ender
Ender 1 - Zack
Rask 1 - Arctic

Logic 3 - Visor, Benneh, Hally
Arctic 2 - Rask, Murska
Jan 1 - Ender
Ender 1 - Zack
Rask 1 - Arctic
GH 1 - Gemma

Logic 3 - Visor, Benneh, Hally
Arctic 3 - Rask, Murska, Ender
Ender 1 - Zack
Rask 1 - Arctic
GH 1 - Gemma

Arctic 3 - Rask, Murska, Ender
Logic 2 - Visor, Hally
Ender 2 - Zack, Benneh
Rask 1 - Arctic
GH 1 - Gemma

Arctic 3 - Rask, Murska, Ender
Logic 2 - Visor, Hally
Ender 2 - Zack, Benneh
GH 1 - Gemma
Dya 1 - Arctic

Ender 3 - Zack, Benneh, Syn
Arctic 2 - Rask, Murska
GH 1 - Gemma
Logic 1 - Hally
Dya 1 - Arctic
Vanta 1 - Visor
Jan 1 - Ender

Ender 3 - Zack, Benneh, Syn
Arctic 1 - Murska
GH 1 - Gemma
Logic 1 - Hally
Dya 1 - Arctic
Vanta 1 - Visor
Jan 1 - Ender
Syn 1 - Rask

Ender 3 - Zack, Benneh, Syn
Syn 2 - Rask, Ender
Arctic 1 - Murska
GH 1 - Gemma
Logic 1 - Hally
Dya 1 - Arctic
Vanta 1 - Visor

Ender 3 - Zack, Benneh, Syn
Syn 3 - Rask, Ender, Murska
GH 1 - Gemma
Logic 1 - Hally
Dya 1 - Arctic
Vanta 1 - Visor

Ender 3 - Zack, Benneh, Syn
Syn 3 - Rask, Ender, Murska
GH 1 - Gemma
Logic 1 - Hally
Dya 1 - Arctic
Vanta 1 - Visor
Abstain 1 - GH

Syn 4 - Rask, Ender, Murska, Ladd
Ender 3 - Zack, Benneh, Syn
GH 1 - Gemma
Logic 1 - Hally
Dya 1 - Arctic
Vanta 1 - Visor
Abstain 1 - GH

Syn 4 - Rask, Ender, Murska, Ladd
Ender 3 - Zack, Benneh, Syn
GH 1 - Gemma
Logic 1 - Hally
Dya 1 - Arctic
Vanta 1 - Visor
Abstain 1 - GH
Arctic 1 - Wisdom

Syn 4 - Rask, Ender, Murska, Ladd
Ender 2 - Benneh, Syn
GH 2 - Gemma, Zack
Logic 1 - Hally
Dya 1 - Arctic
Vanta 1 - Visor
Abstain 1 - GH
Arctic 1 - Wisdom

Syn 4 - Rask, Ender, Murska, Ladd
Ender 2 - Benneh, Syn
GH 2 - Gemma, Zack
Arctic 2 - Wisdom, Hally
Dya 1 - Arctic
Vanta 1 - Visor
Abstain 1 - GH

Syn 4 - Rask, Ender, Murska, Ladd
Ender 2 - Benneh, Syn
GH 2 - Gemma, Zack
Arctic 1 - Hally
Dya 1 - Arctic
Vanta 1 - Visor
Abstain 1 - GH

Syn 4 - Rask, Ender, Murska, Ladd
Ender 2 - Benneh, Syn
GH 2 - Gemma, Zack
Arctic 2 - Hally, Dya
Dya 1 - Arctic
Vanta 1 - Visor
Abstain 1 - GH

Syn 4 - Rask, Ender, Murska, Ladd
Ender 3 - Benneh, Syn, GH
GH 2 - Gemma, Zack
Arctic 2 - Hally, Dya
Dya 1 - Arctic
Vanta 1 - Visor

Syn 4 - Rask, Ender, Murska, Ladd
Ender 3 - Benneh, Syn, GH
GH 2 - Gemma, Zack
Arctic 2 - Hally, Dya
Vanta 2 - Visor, Logic
Dya 1 - Arctic

Syn 4 - Rask, Ender, Murska, Ladd
GH 3 - Gemma, Zack, Benneh
Ender 2 - Syn, GH
Arctic 2 - Hally, Dya
Vanta 2 - Visor, Logic
Dya 1 - Arctic

Syn 3 - Ender, Murska, Ladd
GH 3 - Gemma, Zack, Benneh
Ender 2 - Syn, GH
Arctic 2 - Hally, Dya
Vanta 2 - Visor, Logic
Dya 1 - Arctic
Logic 1 - Rask

Syn 3 - Ender, Murska, Ladd
GH 3 - Gemma, Zack, Benneh
Ender 2 - Syn, GH
Vanta 2 - Visor, Logic
Logic 2 - Rask, Hally
Arctic 1 - Dya
Dya 1 - Arctic

Syn 3 - Ender, Murska, Ladd
GH 3 - Gemma, Zack, Benneh
Vanta 2 - Visor, Logic
Logic 2 - Rask, Hally
Ender 1 - Syn
Arctic 1 - Dya
Dya 1 - Arctic
Gemma 1 - GH

Syn 3 - Ender, Murska, Ladd
GH 3 - Gemma, Zack, Benneh
Logic 2 - Rask, Hally
Vanta 1 - Logic
Ender 1 - Syn
Arctic 1 - Dya
Dya 1 - Arctic
Gemma 1 - GH
Murska 1 - Visor

Syn 3 - Ender, Murska, Ladd
Logic 3 - Rask, Hally, Benneh
GH 2 - Gemma, Zack
Vanta 1 - Logic
Ender 1 - Syn
Arctic 1 - Dya
Dya 1 - Arctic
Gemma 1 - GH
Murska 1 - Visor

Syn 3 - Ender, Murska, Ladd
Logic 3 - Rask, Hally, Benneh
GH 2 - Gemma, Zack
Vanta 1 - Logic
Ender 1 - Syn
Arctic 1 - Dya
Dya 1 - Arctic
Gemma 1 - GH
Murska 1 - Visor
Visor 1 - Wisdom

Syn 3 - Ender, Murska, Ladd
Logic 3 - Rask, Hally, Benneh
Murska 2 - Visor, Gemma
GH 1 - Zack
Vanta 1 - Logic
Ender 1 - Syn
Arctic 1 - Dya
Dya 1 - Arctic
Gemma 1 - GH

Logic 4 - Rask, Hally, Benneh, Vanta
Syn 3 - Ender, Murska, Ladd
Murska 2 - Visor, Gemma
GH 1 - Zack
Vanta 1 - Logic
Ender 1 - Syn
Arctic 1 - Dya
Dya 1 - Arctic
Gemma 1 - GH
Visor 1 - Wisdom

Logic 4 - Rask, Hally, Benneh, Vanta
Syn 3 - Ender, Murska, Ladd
Murska 3 - Visor, Gemma, GH
GH 1 - Zack
Vanta 1 - Logic
Ender 1 - Syn
Arctic 1 - Dya
Dya 1 - Arctic
Visor 1 - Wisdom

Logic 4 - Rask, Hally, Benneh, Vanta
Syn 4 - Ender, Murska, Ladd, Jan
Murska 3 - Visor, Gemma, GH
GH 1 - Zack
Vanta 1 - Logic
Ender 1 - Syn
Arctic 1 - Dya
Dya 1 - Arctic
Visor 1 - Wisdom

Logic 4 - Rask, Hally, Benneh, Vanta
Syn 4 - Ender, Murska, Ladd, Jan
Murska 2 - Visor, Gemma
GH 1 - Zack
Vanta 1 - Logic
Ender 1 - Syn
Arctic 1 - Dya
Dya 1 - Arctic
Visor 1 - Wisdom
Gemma 1 - GH

Logic 4 - Rask, Hally, Benneh, Vanta
Syn 4 - Ender, Murska, Ladd, Jan
Murska 2 - Visor, Gemma
Gemma 2 - GH, Dya
GH 1 - Zack
Vanta 1 - Logic
Ender 1 - Syn
Dya 1 - Arctic
Visor 1 - Wisdom

Syn 5 - Ender, Murska, Ladd, Jan, Rask
Logic 3 - Hally, Benneh, Vanta
Murska 2 - Visor, Gemma
Gemma 2 - GH, Dya
GH 1 - Zack
Vanta 1 - Logic
Ender 1 - Syn
Dya 1 - Arctic
Visor 1 - Wisdom

Syn 4 - Ender, Ladd, Jan, Rask
Logic 4 - Hally, Benneh, Vanta, Murska
Murska 2 - Visor, Gemma
Gemma 2 - GH, Dya
GH 1 - Zack
Vanta 1 - Logic
Ender 1 - Syn
Dya 1 - Arctic
Visor 1 - Wisdom

Syn 5 - Ender, Ladd, Jan, Rask, GH
Logic 4 - Hally, Benneh, Vanta, Murska
Murska 2 - Visor, Gemma
Gemma 1 - Dya
GH 1 - Zack
Vanta 1 - Logic
Ender 1 - Syn
Dya 1 - Arctic
Visor 1 - Wisdom

Syn 6 - Ender, Ladd, Jan, Rask, GH, Arctic
Logic 4 - Hally, Benneh, Vanta, Murska
Murska 2 - Visor, Gemma
Gemma 1 - Dya
GH 1 - Zack
Vanta 1 - Logic
Ender 1 - Syn
Visor 1 - Wisdom

Syn 7 - Ender, Ladd, Jan, Rask, GH, Arctic, Murska
Logic 3 - Hally, Benneh, Vanta
Murska 2 - Visor, Gemma
Gemma 1 - Dya
GH 1 - Zack
Vanta 1 - Logic
Ender 1 - Syn
Visor 1 - Wisdom

Day 2
Visor 1 - Rask

Visor 2 - Rask, Wisdom

Visor 2 - Rask, Wisdom
Dya 1 - Logic

Visor 3 - Rask, Wisdom, Benneh
Dya 1 - Logic

Visor 4 - Rask, Wisdom, Benneh, Hally
Dya 1 - Logic

Visor 4 - Rask, Wisdom, Benneh, Hally
Dya 1 - Logic
Logic 1 - Dya

Visor 4 - Rask, Wisdom, Benneh, Hally
Dya 1 - Logic
Logic 1 - Dya
Arctic 1 - Ender

Visor 4 - Rask, Wisdom, Benneh, Hally
Dya 1 - Logic
Logic 1 - Dya
Gemma 1 - Ender

Visor 4 - Rask, Wisdom, Benneh, Hally
Gemma 2 - Ender, GH
Dya 1 - Logic
Logic 1 - Dya

Visor 4 - Rask, Wisdom, Benneh, Hally
Logic 2 - Dya, Ender
Gemma 1 - GH
Dya 1 - Logic

Visor 4 - Rask, Wisdom, Benneh, Hally
Logic 2 - Dya, Ender
Gemma 1 - GH

Visor 4 - Rask, Wisdom, Benneh, Hally
Logic 2 - Dya, Ender
Gemma 1 - GH
Arctic 1 - Logic

Visor 4 - Rask, Wisdom, Benneh, Hally
Logic 2 - Dya, Ender
Gemma 2 - GH, Visor
Arctic 1 - Logic

Visor 4 - Rask, Wisdom, Benneh, Hally
Gemma 3 - GH, Visor, Ender
Logic 1 - Dya
Arctic 1 - Logic

Visor 5 - Rask, Wisdom, Benneh, Hally, Vanta
Gemma 3 - GH, Visor, Ender
Logic 1 - Dya
Arctic 1 - Logic

Visor 4 - Rask, Benneh, Hally, Vanta
Gemma 3 - GH, Visor, Ender
Logic 1 - Dya
Arctic 1 - Logic
Benneh 1 - Wisdom

Visor 4 - Rask, Benneh, Hally, Vanta
Gemma 2 - GH, Ender
Benneh 2 - Wisdom, Visor
Logic 1 - Dya
Arctic 1 - Logic

Visor 4 - Rask, Benneh, Hally, Vanta
Benneh 3 - Wisdom, Visor, Ender
Gemma 1 - GH
Logic 1 - Dya
Arctic 1 - Logic

Visor 4 - Rask, Benneh, Hally, Vanta
Benneh 4 - Wisdom, Visor, Ender, GH
Logic 1 - Dya
Arctic 1 - Logic

Visor 5 - Rask, Benneh, Hally, Vanta, Arctic
Benneh 4 - Wisdom, Visor, Ender, GH
Logic 1 - Dya
Arctic 1 - Logic

Visor 5 - Rask, Benneh, Hally, Vanta, Arctic
Benneh 5 - Wisdom, Visor, Ender, GH, Jan
Logic 1 - Dya
Arctic 1 - Logic

Visor 6 - Rask, Benneh, Hally, Vanta, Arctic, Murska
Benneh 5 - Wisdom, Visor, Ender, GH, Jan
Logic 1 - Dya
Arctic 1 - Logic

Visor 6 - Rask, Benneh, Hally, Vanta, Arctic, Murska
Benneh 4 - Wisdom, Visor, GH, Jan
Arctic 2 - Logic, Ender
Logic 1 - Dya

Visor 6 - Rask, Benneh, Hally, Vanta, Arctic, Murska
Benneh 3 - Wisdom, GH, Jan
Arctic 2 - Logic, Ender
Logic 1 - Dya
Gemma 1 - Visor

Visor 6 - Rask, Benneh, Hally, Vanta, Arctic, Murska
Benneh 2 - Wisdom, Jan
Arctic 2 - Logic, Ender
Gemma 2 - Visor, GH
Logic 2 - Dya, Ladd

Visor 7 - Rask, Benneh, Hally, Vanta, Arctic, Murska, Ladd
Benneh 2 - Wisdom, Jan
Arctic 2 - Logic, Ender
Gemma 2 - Visor, GH
Logic 1 - Dya

Visor 7 - Rask, Benneh, Hally, Vanta, Arctic, Murska, Ladd
Benneh 2 - Wisdom, Jan
Gemma 2 - Visor, GH
Arctic 1 - Logic
Logic 1 - Dya
GH 1 - Ender

If Rask is the final wolf I'm just saying gg already because I'm probably never catching them. Look at my pretty busy work!

I actually fell asleep mid-making this so time to get my coffee tell on.

Arctic

02-27-2024, 13:12

chat i don’t know what to do

Arctic

02-27-2024, 13:40

Arctic

02-27-2024, 13:46

Wild change of mind time.

We veering at 360 speeds on this road.

Vote: Gemma

So I was rereading D1 to get a feel of Arctic (And hopefully a case) when I started reading Gemma posts and have now decided that her townreading me when I was feeling attacked has meant I've ignored her slot probably more than I should've?

Gemma vote is partially because of these posts. I figured I should probably post these instead of just naked changing votes.

Idk if Visor has me pocketed but I agree strongly with the Gemma take.

Like the soft is the only reason I pulled off her earlier.

Vote: Gemma

I may regret this later when I'm not super tired. (Gonna take a nap.) But reading Visor's stuff just makes me sure all over again about Gemma.

wolves would not wanted the rolecop to die at eod2
he did move to benneh but still

dyachei

02-27-2024, 13:48

We should always just vote me today so hally can actually try to solve the game tomorrow

Everything I've done that's villagery is being subverted into something that's wolfy. Every doubt I've had on someone and change of mind. She's never seen me this limp as a villager but she's not thinking about the fact I've never acted like this as a wolf either. Glgl and hope you guys figure it out tomorrow

Raskolnikov

02-27-2024, 13:56

EnderWiggin

02-27-2024, 14:00

I think if its not Ender its her so nope. (But I think its just Ender anyway so)

I'm sorry you feel so mad about my motion detections. =P

Totally not Taffy

02-27-2024, 14:00

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/642356582704742420/1207289212861419550/47hr_Vote_Count.png?ex=65df1ab2&is=65cca5b2&hm=6cc4bfed3c706edd95f17afbac2bc6d0aa62d23f900e44ba36dbcaeb2e2c8cd2&

https://media.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExcWdrbzd5cmU1YW5pNTViZWh2am43ZTF0YXdkNDgzM20ya3dvcG9yeCZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfY nlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/v1B8lhkx70Nqw/giphy.gif

Time to get your votes on!

Vote Count

Dyachei (1) : Hally
Ender (2) : Raskolnikov, Vanta

Not voting: Dyachei
Haven't voted: Arctic, Ender

Vote History

If you made a vote that wasn't counted, please link it to me on discord :heart:

Vote: Vanta
unvote
vote: Ender
vote: dya
Unvote
Vote: vanta
unvote
Vote: Ender
vote: Ender

Post Counts
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/642356582704742420/1212021329985798194/image.png?ex=65f051d3&is=65dddcd3&hm=04a6f4504276115aedf8d64d40747b96acf37e301235aaf9bc6ec0bf70769763&

EoD6 post counts for easy math:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/642356582704742420/1211455480686452746/EoD6_Post_Counts.png?ex=65ee42d6&is=65dbcdd6&hm=b299724b01bb40e189b7ecc68197d4caf39f828f1d5994c981b332988cacce3c&

Feels like forever since we last had a proper EoD.

Raskolnikov

02-27-2024, 14:10

I'm sorry you feel so mad about my motion detections. =P

I am sorry for my mum tbh

Raskolnikov

02-27-2024, 14:14

You feel caught pant down mate glgl

EnderWiggin

02-27-2024, 14:16

You feel caught pant down mate glgl

I thought you'd need help catching me.

Arctic

02-27-2024, 14:16

ladd thought gemma and dya weren't w/w (i can't find why) but had 1 of logic/dya as wolf so i can't even sheep this. also had ender/gemma as not w/w, but had all of dya/vanta/ender in his poe. his associative reads would instruct me to vote vanta here

i kinda wanted to go tinfoil crazy on hally/rask but ladd's reads have instructed me to not do that so whatever

his last post was voting vanta/gemma/ender

Arctic

02-27-2024, 14:17

I feel like i should have probably read hally today too

Raskolnikov

02-27-2024, 14:18

GG WP Ender

:boxedin:

Arctic

02-27-2024, 14:20

ender how have you managed to not actually say who the last wolf is yet

Arctic

02-27-2024, 14:23

i kind of want to kill vanta rn lol

Arctic

02-27-2024, 14:23

i feel like that just seems to be the correct order of operations judging from what there actually is to clear them (basically nothing other than "sounding town")

Raskolnikov

02-27-2024, 14:25

Come on Arctic, look how Enders basically done nothing but openwolfing and has now surrendered

EnderWiggin

02-27-2024, 14:25

Like, honestly, I'm feeling very listless and struggling to get through a proper reread of this game which is not good for y'all in terms of reading me. I have a really strong desire to balls-to-the-walls some takes which probably deserve to live only in F3 and even then only as the crackpot theory made before being majjed for wearing tinfoil.

But I don't have any *good* reasons for having so much tinfoil on me atm so I feel unjustified in having this feeling which is a cyclical deathbell.

Vanta feels pure at times but I can't point to any specific set of posts and say "This isn't what wolf would do."

Closest I can come is the posts about how I solve and the expectation around my play. But even that is... meh. I have more associatives (Lack of engagement, how she voted Logic to put him ahead of Syn on d1, the Gemma interaction) but idk if I believe in any of them.

Dya has had a few interactions I townread but I don't trust myself to throw a stick with them so I'm very tempted to yolo a Hally sheep on it. I could dig up the posts that I felt were towny from them but that's effort.

Rask... would have to have bussed pretty hard. Possible I guess. But idk if Rask just swings for Syn off a few posts like that as w/w. I've never seen it before but not impossible. But also Rask's wild swings today feel like a probing town. This could be the funniest read if he flips wolf. :curtain:

Hally... I wanna believe the wall post tbh. The effort put into that when Dya was already kinda a POE and honestly there's me/Vanta who are also POE. Idk why that effort thrown out happens if Hally is final wolf here but also that sounds stupid.

Watch me sit on this fence for free.

Arctic is the slot I wolfread constantly on rereads. I find posts/interactions with Visor and a few others that feel... not great. The pile on at the end of Syn feels like a bus position.

But also then he posts a bunch and I read them and think he's town.

All this vacillating probably means Rask is just the wolf. :curtain:

(I'm setting us up a duel in F3 play along.)

Raskolnikov

02-27-2024, 14:25

I thought you'd need help catching me.

This

EnderWiggin

02-27-2024, 14:25

ender how have you managed to not actually say who the last wolf is yet

God if I know lmao.

See post above.

EnderWiggin

02-27-2024, 14:26

This

The funniest part is I'm town.

EnderWiggin

02-27-2024, 14:26

Also whoever said all the NK's have scumread me is lying because Jan adamently was convinced I was town.

I really don't see why I would kill that with strongman.

EnderWiggin

02-27-2024, 14:27

Like idk why Rask would think that was serious tbh. He out of all the people here knows I openwolf a fuckton as town because it's a vibe.

Arctic

02-27-2024, 14:28

Also whoever said all the NK's have scumread me is lying because Jan adamently was convinced I was town.

I really don't see why I would kill that with strongman.

well jan was clearly rolecopped so that one doesn't count

EnderWiggin

02-27-2024, 14:30

well jan was clearly rolecopped so that one doesn't count

I mean I always strongman Murska and then kill Jan. Wasting the strongman not on Murska felt like a weird play.

Arctic

02-27-2024, 14:31

...why would you use the strongman on the doc? isn't that the one person who it's safe to not use the strongman on? no way wolves knew they could also self-protect otherwise they wouldn't have hit them...

EnderWiggin

02-27-2024, 14:31

Actually no I guess if you know there's a watcher using strongman on the claimed protective is a stupid move.

I rescind my disagreement your honour.

dyachei

02-27-2024, 14:32

Wait there was a strongman? Was that part of gemmas role?

EnderWiggin

02-27-2024, 14:32

EnderWiggin

02-27-2024, 14:32

Wait there was a strongman? Was that part of gemmas role?

Visor.

When he dies the next night is a strongman kill.

EnderWiggin

02-27-2024, 14:33

Dumbtell also noted. :bow:

dyachei

02-27-2024, 14:33

Dumbtell also noted. :bow:

Who died that night? Jan wasn't it?

EnderWiggin

02-27-2024, 14:34

Who died that night? Jan wasn't it?

Yup. Hence the discussion.

Arctic

02-27-2024, 14:34

Tbh I think it's either vanta or ender

If we miss on one of those today I'd consider it being hally mostly just cuz I haven't reread her lol

dyachei

02-27-2024, 14:34

Yeah yeah it's a dumb tell but I didn't notice that when I read his role. The small print is hard to see

Arctic

02-27-2024, 14:35

Dya who should we kill that isn't you?

Raskolnikov

02-27-2024, 14:35

Lol Dya.

I have to go (bday party starting).

Just kill Ender. My mum demands it.

(Was a pleasure friendos. arrivederci)

dyachei

02-27-2024, 14:36

Idk anymore arctic

I'm so tired of trying to solve this game. I'm concerned about vanta interactions but I like her posts. I'm concerned that ender isn't solving but the Gemma push looks OK. I think hallys been solving but her tunnel on me is a lot unfair at times and is starting to feel agendad

EnderWiggin

02-27-2024, 14:37

EnderWiggin

02-27-2024, 14:38

(I am, if not clear, completely jesting. I do not want to vote out Rask.)

dyachei

02-27-2024, 14:38

I'm ride or die with you and rask atp.

I guess if enders solving today is going to look like this it's most likely him. This will probably get hally on my case again because I changed my mind from vanta

Arctic

02-27-2024, 14:40

game hard boob soft

EnderWiggin

02-27-2024, 14:42

dyachei

02-27-2024, 14:43

Since when have you ever liked my solving lmao.

Never but at least you usually have some effort

EnderWiggin

02-27-2024, 14:46

Never but at least you usually have some effort

Well I'd apologise for having very little time and feeling exhausted enough I have to have coffee to even play this game.

But I play here because I don't have the time to put in the effort that would be good in a game on Syndicate or MU or something.

Also I spent hours on trying to dig up associative reads wow.

(I am just snarking around. I have long accepted that you and I don't jive in terms of understanding each other's play. =P)

Arctic

02-27-2024, 14:48

ok now what

Arctic

02-27-2024, 14:48

we could still technically kill vanta

EnderWiggin

02-27-2024, 14:48

I will legit say I'm sorry to the rest of town for how lacklustre I've been. I haven't had a good direction which usually means I'm townreading a wolf but that sounds stupid to say aloud and every time I've looked for it I couldn't find it.

I'm gonna be selfish and vote a town one last time.

Vote: Arctic

For good old times of D2, back when I was having fun being silly.

Honestly, if you'll excuse a mild grump tho, I do feel like I was the most spew-readable town in this village and feel like 75% of other players having the same spew in their favour would've been cleared.

EnderWiggin

02-27-2024, 14:49

ok now what

Now I die because I'm annoyed and tired and openwolfing and antagonising people.

But at least I don't have to deal with F3 so that's a win in my books.

dyachei

02-27-2024, 14:49

vote: hally

dyachei

02-27-2024, 14:50

I really don't care for her case on me and she's been casually calling me a wolf all game

Still hoping I die instead

Arctic

02-27-2024, 14:51

vote: hally

cant do that when i made the mistake of not having actually read them today, sry, but like im not forgiving myself if i ML her based on gut/vibes while having not read her stuff

EnderWiggin

02-27-2024, 14:51

I really don't care for her case on me and she's been casually calling me a wolf all game

Still hoping I die instead

Just make sure you kill her before F3 or she'll instant-vote you.

Arctic

02-27-2024, 14:52

vote: Vanta

EnderWiggin

02-27-2024, 14:53

Also I'm sorry for my sense of humour. I find all these pokes about being wolf funny somewhat but I know they can be grating on townpeople trying to solve.

dyachei

02-27-2024, 14:55

Just make sure you kill her before F3 or she'll instant-vote you.

Don't you think if I were a wolf she'd already be dead. She's killed my enjoyment of the game. What little there is in mafia anyway

Arctic

02-27-2024, 14:56

dya (1): hally
ender (2) rask, vanta
hally (1): dya
arctic (1): ender
vanta (1): arctic

votecount of all time

EnderWiggin

02-27-2024, 14:56

vote: Vanta

Vote: Vanta

Voting someone and then voting with them? More likely than you think!

Idk if I should but I sat down and decided to be wolfier by self-pres voting.

Arctic

02-27-2024, 14:57

dya u should pick one of vanta/ender

EnderWiggin

02-27-2024, 14:57

Oooh! Pick me pick me

Arctic

02-27-2024, 14:58

i might unvote just to betray ender

dyachei

02-27-2024, 14:58

unvote

Vote:ender

EnderWiggin

02-27-2024, 14:58

i might unvote just to betray ender

It'd be epic :bow:

Hally

02-27-2024, 14:59

if it’s dya this is your fucking heads

EnderWiggin

02-27-2024, 14:59

Have fun in F3 y'all.

And sorry again. This was not a good game. Y'all should've just cleared me.

Arctic

02-27-2024, 14:59

i like this outcome a lot
either the wolf dies or we kill a villager and i wasn't voting them

Arctic

02-27-2024, 14:59

tbh it realistically isnt ender i mean the gemma spew just seems clear cut toi me

Arctic

02-27-2024, 15:00

if it’s dya this is your fucking heads

why not kill vanta then
isn't vanta dying over ender better

EnderWiggin

02-27-2024, 15:00

tbh it realistically isnt ender i mean the gemma spew just seems clear cut toi me

Only you can save your villagers.

dyachei

02-27-2024, 15:00

Unvote

Vote:vanta

Arctic

02-27-2024, 15:00

oh
uh

Hally

02-27-2024, 15:00

I really don't care for her case on me and she's been casually calling me a wolf all game

Still hoping I die instead
for the last time this is not fucking true

i only wolf read you starting d5 and there’s nothing fucking casual about my push jfc

Totally not Taffy

02-27-2024, 15:01

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/642356582704742420/1211311642214932510/EOD7.png?ex=65edbce0&is=65db47e0&hm=c4ac5b300674c9f65fe88aa27db19e25d6cc7a3e2fb41a769a138d2bd7cf0304&

Alea iacta est!

Hally

02-27-2024, 15:01

why not kill vanta then
isn't vanta dying over ender better
i have no idea what the vc is and idfc

Totally not Taffy

02-27-2024, 15:04

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/642356582704742420/1207303805461463080/Final_Vote_Count.png?ex=65df2849&is=65ccb349&hm=0aa0fafc7bfdb8f3accac13ec8d1a610a355c5db905f60d16b663ba90c2f9f4f&

Final Vote Count

Vanta (3) : Arctic, Ender, Dyachei
Ender (2) : Raskolnikov, Vanta
Dyachei (1) : Hally

Vote History

If you made a vote that wasn't counted, please link it to me on discord :heart:

Vote: Vanta
unvote
vote: Ender
vote: dya
Unvote
Vote: vanta
unvote
Vote: Ender
vote: Ender
Vote: Arctic
vote: hally
vote: Vanta
Vote: Vanta
Vote:ender
Vote:vanta

Post Counts
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/642356582704742420/1212021329985798194/image.png?ex=65f051d3&is=65dddcd3&hm=04a6f4504276115aedf8d64d40747b96acf37e301235aaf9bc6ec0bf70769763&

EoD6 post counts for easy math:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/642356582704742420/1211455480686452746/EoD6_Post_Counts.png?ex=65ee42d6&is=65dbcdd6&hm=b299724b01bb40e189b7ecc68197d4caf39f828f1d5994c981b332988cacce3c&

Flip inc.

Totally not Taffy

02-27-2024, 15:04

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/642356582704742420/1211271965516628008/VantaBlack3.png?ex=65ed97ec&is=65db22ec&hm=b5a78d0fd04e9906a6c2e36bda8cac115efe8957bd89c49021fe4260784aa451&

Saint Pinkest lived in desperate times. An evil cult had been allowed to fester, and it had taken all the surrounding land's heroes to bring it to an end when it was finally uncovered. Only, its vile Temple of Utter Darkness still stood, and was spreading a foul illness that killed old and young alike. The local rulers tried destroying it, but though the stones crumbled, its corruption still spread. They tried to paint over it, but its stench bled through. They tried to pray it away, but it merely killed the faithful more quickly as in contempt. All fled before its destruction, except Saint Pinkest, a young artisan, who was irresistibly drawn to it. Spurred on by the muses, she went to work and molded the vile blackness into a dazzling array of colours. The sick recovered, and all praised her name.

Vanta was a Town Saint (VT)

Remember your night actions!

Totally not Taffy

02-28-2024, 14:58

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/642356582704742420/1211369234966388789/Raskolnikov3.png?ex=65edf283&is=65db7d83&hm=df3f795e2dbd8b40a1907f9a7d1461abb4f061929bda652e53338c2402dae650&

Saint Scission, commonly bastardised to Saint Saucisse due to its phonetic resemblance to saucisson, was a French saint with an unquenchable sense of humour who mocked his torturers all the way to the grave. When they tickled his feet, he cracked so many jokes that the bailiff had to beg for mercy. When they brought out the screws he mentioned being all fingers and thumbs already. When they boiled him he asked for more seasoning in his soup, when they branded him he questioned the aesthetics of the design, and when they showed him the whip he quipped not to threaten him with a good time. Eventually, when he was sentenced to slow slicing (another purported origin of the moniker), he regaled his onlookers with serving suggestions. Saint Scission with tapenade, Saint Scission à la hollandaise, Saint Scission au Beaujolais... What a way to go! What a legend!

Raskolnikov was a Town Saint (VT)

Googling any of these torture methods may end up disturbing and nsfw, you've been warned.

Totally not Taffy

02-28-2024, 15:00

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/642356582704742420/1211311984776314901/SOD8.png?ex=65edbd32&is=65db4832&hm=380d69f485451ed1d86210fc3d4b62e690344b5365c6f886a70751163caf8be3&

Now that there are so few of you I trust you can do without the 3am vote counts.

Hally

02-28-2024, 15:50

Don't you think if I were a wolf she'd already be dead. She's killed my enjoyment of the game. What little there is in mafia anyway
i’m probably going to regret posting this but i spent the entirety of yesterday feeling extremely upset and i really can’t keep it bottled in and continue playing this game so i’m just going to say the feeling is mutual

i have tried so hard to keep things about the game and not let how upset i’ve been at how you’ve been reacting to me make its way into the thread because i don’t want to make a game so heated and personal but you just won’t fucking stop posting things like this. i don’t deserve to be made to feel this way when, if you’re a villager, the worst thing i have done is have a bad read that i’ve probably doubled down on because i hate the idea of rewarding you for making me feel like shit for suspecting you

i don’t even care if you’re a wolf or not anymore, winning this game is not worth the grief of pushing you so if you succeeded in making me feel this shitty for catching you congrats on the win. not my problem anymore

there’s more i want to say but taffy and everyone else don’t deserve having the game be ruined for them too and i’ve already gotten myself upset again so i’m going to try to step away

bye

Arctic

02-28-2024, 16:59

well knowing that vanta was town makes me fee less stupid for cfd’ing wisdom but now i have the exact same problem with ender/vanta except this time i do really think it is just ender

the only thing i really have left to do is just check that it can’t be hally

i really don’t think it’s dya, even ignoring the whole if they’re mafia they’ve really just made their gameplan to be calling the pushes on them bad and (the actually towny part, saying me and some other people were playing too badly to be town),, going off of actual things i still don’t think it’s them - in particular the last two nightkills

benneh was the most open to dya being town out of me/benneh/rask and both the last two NKs were either the most critical of ender in benneh’s case or actively tunneling in rask’s case. i do think dya would have killed me last night because of my early sus on them and the fact i didn’t really think it was ender as much as rask going off my eod posts

especially when you bear in mind that dya switched from the last second from vanta to ender - in a wolf them world i’d imagine this would be because people were more sure on it being ender whereas vanta was just a shrug kill, but by killing rask (the person actually tunneling ender) they would have kind of fucked up what they were trying to achieve

so yeah, i do just think it’s ender. i think his eod posts were also atrocious and reading back i think he was expecting the game to end there and didn’t even attempt to find the wolf (voting me read as giving up). he didn’t once say who the wolf was and (admittedly entirely fairly) sheeped me on vanta

i think the spew is convincing and he’s played well but i think everything points to him. after i read through hally i’m happy to do hammer tests if i dont change my mind. i remember someone saying sleeping is a bad idea in case there’s some hidden kp and if everyone still thinks i’m town then there is no point sleeping

Arctic

02-28-2024, 17:01

and I also don’t find it likely hally enters the day like this as mafia, I mean the obvious wincon for her here is to establish rapport with dya and have us all come together to vote out ender but i think she’s legitimately upset at the remarks made against her which wouldn’t apply if she was mafia, given well, they’re founded on criticisms of her townplay

Arctic

02-28-2024, 17:02

and ender i’m willing to hear you out even if i don’t think it’s likely i’ll be changing my mind there’s always a chance

dyachei

02-28-2024, 17:46

i’m probably going to regret posting this but i spent the entirety of yesterday feeling extremely upset and i really can’t keep it bottled in and continue playing this game so i’m just going to say the feeling is mutual

i have tried so hard to keep things about the game and not let how upset i’ve been at how you’ve been reacting to me make its way into the thread because i don’t want to make a game so heated and personal but you just won’t fucking stop posting things like this. i don’t deserve to be made to feel this way when, if you’re a villager, the worst thing i have done is have a bad read that i’ve probably doubled down on because i hate the idea of rewarding you for making me feel like shit for suspecting you

i don’t even care if you’re a wolf or not anymore, winning this game is not worth the grief of pushing you so if you succeeded in making me feel this shitty for catching you congrats on the win. not my problem anymore

there’s more i want to say but taffy and everyone else don’t deserve having the game be ruined for them too and i’ve already gotten myself upset again so i’m going to try to step away

bye

I'll drop it after this but you have said things like this to me multiple times this game and made me feel like an utter POS human.

I'm sorry i made you feel the same way but you have not kept it to "just mafia" as you're saying. And to be honest, I'm really, really over it. I get it, sometimes I react more emotionally than I should but I shouldnt be made to feel like shit for it every time.

ffs, someone called me happiness kryptonite this game, too

yeah, we're definitely keeping it all mafia here

Hally

02-28-2024, 17:56

dyachei

02-28-2024, 17:58

i really do not understand what i have said to you that has been outside the scope of normal mafia play

from my perspective the worst thing i have done is wolf read you which, regardless of whether it’s correct or not, is part of the game

if i’ve inadvertently done something else to make you feel bad i apologize but it was not my intent

you have called out my reactions and told me that I'm overreacting multiple times. That's beyond the scope of this game. You've then implied if not outright stated how bad I have made the game

I'm probably just overly sensitive but it starts to get to you when multiple people keep talking about how unfun you are

Arctic

02-28-2024, 18:01

guys i don’t think continuing this discussion is going to make anyone feel better or help us win so i really don’t see the point :/

anyone wanna talk about the game

dyachei

02-28-2024, 18:04

guys i don’t think continuing this discussion is going to make anyone feel better or help us win so i really don’t see the point :/

anyone wanna talk about the game

not really, no, if I'm being honest. I should have voted ender yesterday and I've been beating myself up about it all night

Hally

02-28-2024, 18:06

guys i don’t think continuing this discussion is going to make anyone feel better or help us win so i really don’t see the point :/

anyone wanna talk about the game
not really

i’ll do whatever you think is best, just can’t bring myself to care anymore sorry

Arctic

02-28-2024, 18:07

not really, no, if I'm being honest. I should have voted ender yesterday and I've been beating myself up about it all night

yeah i was doing the same
if it is him it’s not any more your fault than mine given that i started the vanta wagon

Arctic

02-28-2024, 18:11

well then i don’t have much else to say until i reread hally just to make sure it can’t be her (some time later tonight)

and for ender to show up

dyachei

02-28-2024, 18:40

well then i don’t have much else to say until i reread hally just to make sure it can’t be her (some time later tonight)

and for ender to show up

aare you gonna post quotes? idk if i have it in me to read her iso

Arctic

02-28-2024, 19:00

aare you gonna post quotes? idk if i have it in me to read her iso

i mean yeah, probably some

could we not make comments like this though

dyachei

02-28-2024, 20:13

i mean yeah, probably some

could we not make comments like this though

i just meant that it's long and I think she's a villager anyway.

EnderWiggin

02-28-2024, 22:36

Yeah I should've selfed yesterday. Vanta probably gets ya-yeeted in F3/F4 anyway but there's more chance of town reversing correctly if I have martinis in deadchat.

EnderWiggin

02-28-2024, 22:39

I do want to say Hally/Arctic, whichever of you is town, the fact I wasn't spew cleared this game despite a doulbe-whammy of Gemma/Syn both making horrendous early reads on me is kinda sad. I should've been allowed to die at night or have a mishammer in F4/F3 like a true son of town.

But that's not a matter for now.

I don't have much time (Pre-work I shouldn't have done rn lel.) But I'm going to try to find time before EOD to actively put together a case for you all to ignore and yeet me anyway.

Hally

02-28-2024, 22:43

ender who do you think it is?

EnderWiggin

02-28-2024, 23:17

ender who do you think it is?

Not Dya.

But I'm not going to commit to that 100%.

I know, keeping my options open blah blah.

If the vote from last night wasn't obvious my basic read is "arctic wolf" which is potentially the dumbest read because it's mostly gut and the fact that reread of EOD2 feels very performancy.

Arctic

02-29-2024, 02:20

Not Dya.

But I'm not going to commit to that 100%.

I know, keeping my options open blah blah.

If the vote from last night wasn't obvious my basic read is "arctic wolf" which is potentially the dumbest read because it's mostly gut and the fact that reread of EOD2 feels very performancy.

well this kinda seems like a lie given that in the post you voted me you quite literally said you're voting a villager..

if you're v and the best you have to give is thinking it's me because of a gutread based on me being performative then.. uh, idk how i'm supposed to find you as v and i'm not really siw

Arctic

02-29-2024, 03:12

i've read like half of hally's posts and i do think she's v but i dont know if i care to post about it if no one thinks it's her anyway

EnderWiggin

02-29-2024, 04:22

well this kinda seems like a lie given that in the post you voted me you quite literally said you're voting a villager..

if you're v and the best you have to give is thinking it's me because of a gutread based on me being performative then.. uh, idk how i'm supposed to find you as v and i'm not really siw

If you are V and I'm wrong, I hope I find that tonight. Otherwise idk how I expect you to find me either if I fully tunnel you.

EnderWiggin

02-29-2024, 04:23

Also idk if you could tell but 90% of last night was just me fucking around because I didn't know who wolf was and I was expecting to die so other people could put in the hard yards.

I didn't expect the Dya swap tbh. I regret Vanta dying a lot, not least of which is because I now have to actually try because I would hate to shrugdie in F4.

If I end up dying after putting in effort? Eh. I'll hate it but at least I tried. I'll be more okay if I end up voting a wolf as well but we'll take what we get.

Arctic

02-29-2024, 05:28

ender im having a problem seeing that it's hally because her day 2 was just shitting on visor and gemma (and logic, but still)

on day 2 i also dartboarded a team of gemma/gh/visor

how likely do you think it is either of us tear into the last 2 wolves after one died on day 1, moreso for me given that i dont tend to bus

admittedly i stopped pushing on gemma because of the claim but hally wanted her dead much more quickly after the claim than anyone else did

i feel like fypov it should be pretty clearly dya because of pretty level zero reasoning

and now that i'm sure the wolf is either you, or small chance of dya, this game is mildly infuriating that we had a correct poe of dya/wisdom/ender/vanta but if we lose it'll be because the poe was 1 too big and we killed all the villagers in it

Arctic

02-29-2024, 05:59

i think it’s 2 in logic/dya/gemma/ender

i just don’t think anyone else can be a wolf, sue me :shrug:

damn she was right

EnderWiggin

02-29-2024, 06:47

Arctic

02-29-2024, 12:19

If you clear me you'll be one closer to not being wrong?

But I'll remind you that Visor also said "Fuck the claim kill Gemma".

I don't think ignoring the claim means anything.

Then why is it her and not dya fypov

Arctic

02-29-2024, 13:48

my guy you have given me nothing to work with here lmao

EnderWiggin

02-29-2024, 14:35

my guy you have given me nothing to work with here lmao

I don't have much time (Pre-work I shouldn't have done rn lel.) But I'm going to try to find time before EOD to actively put together a case for you all to ignore and yeet me anyway.

If only I didn't have an issue this entire game with having time.

I am going to be around for the next hour-ish and try to put my thoughts in order (and be less vague on a stance hopefully.)

Feel free to throw questions my way.

EnderWiggin

02-29-2024, 14:35

Then why is it her and not dya fypov

Previously stated on Dya. But I'm throwing that away for the re-read so who knows where I get in the next 60m

EnderWiggin

02-29-2024, 14:44

Logic is being sussed for being Logic so wouldn't surprise me rn.

i'm sorry sir but this post is terrible, regardless of logic's actual alignment. i actually grimaced irl reading it.

Vote: EnderWiggin

(real)

I was right.

Zack did me dirty tbh.

EnderWiggin

02-29-2024, 14:45

It's a thin data point but Hally fits the "comfortable in thread" tell for D1 very much more than anyone else alive today (including myself.)

I'm not going to lock em villa for it but that's definitely the biggest early plus on their front.

Totally not Taffy

02-29-2024, 15:00

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/642356582704742420/1212759608985256027/24hr_Vote_Count.png?ex=65f30166&is=65e08c66&hm=2858d287e4dfdf447de2b70d932dc71e1d80deb90b68d02e4b1b6a6591c1bc46&

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/642356582704742420/1212760751668863016/image.png?ex=65f30277&is=65e08d77&hm=2d700fbca467b754d7e1da0e113263bc9ec94ba4fd6489cf9331558c2f683e4c&

The joys of late-game vote counts!

Vote Count

Haven't voted: Arctic, Ender, Hally, Dyachei

Vote History
If you made a vote that wasn't counted, please link it to me on discord :heart:

Your vote could be here!

Post Counts
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/642356582704742420/1212760470432387132/image.png?ex=65f30234&is=65e08d34&hm=c504fd4f9c468b82a7b2cb0145228fd09db0cc5487cd920b37c6d64aae6e1f70&

EoD7 post counts for easy math:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/642356582704742420/1212761252749639782/EoD7_Post_Counts.png?ex=65f302ee&is=65e08dee&hm=7951f32cb8c335913d02610b2abd187bfddf93fc0811d43f6c1d25a0db88c409&

Comic from The Abominable Charles Christopher

EnderWiggin

02-29-2024, 15:09

to me syn has blatantly not made any attempt to do things or appear like he’s doing things, feels like he’s just fucking around and daring people to shrug kill him afaict

seems rand unless his meta as wolf is to hard potato :shrug:

I don't really know what syn is doing and I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do about half the game saying they sound normal and half the game saying they sound off cuz this means nothing to me

tbh ladd is probably mafia but idk if i care to prove it right now

syn is a fine shrug wagon if they aren't gonna play the game but the wagon comp on them doesn't really inspire confidence

dya's recent posts did nothing for me personally so i'm curious what the people who were insistent on letting them cook have to say about that

Arctic making 2 posts about it feels worse than Hally's one post. That one post is the only one I could squint at as a wolfy post so far from Hally. Inquisitive but that weird half-shade.

Dya has... pretty much ignored the Syn wagon at this point. FMPOV it's 4 villas suddenly wagoning Syn out of no-where, so I'd expect this is the point that catches wolves kinda off guard a little bit given all the wagons at this point (except maybe the early Arctic one) were all on flipped town.

EnderWiggin

02-29-2024, 15:25

Not settling on this yet, but I was comparing Dya's D1/D2 with:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154761-Casual-december-game

Which is their last wolf game I've seen. I feel very much that Dya felt the requirement to actually put some sort of cohesive read set together at times.

Also was much less reticent to just shrug sus me.

Those are kinda weak but they sort of outline my sense of why this Dya feels less like a wolf to me.

(Consider around their Vulgard townread and how they felt the need to explain it a lot in the wolf game. I haven't seen that... compulsion to outline reads.)

EnderWiggin

02-29-2024, 15:28

Also in that wolf game you see none of that frustration around #481 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154944-17er-Saints-and-Martyrs?p=2053854050&viewfull=1#post2053854050) where they feel like they're being misrepresented and so instantly attack in response.

They do talk to people about representations they feel aren't accurate but none of it has the "Guess what, I do have a wolfread. It's you!" that they had this game.

EnderWiggin

02-29-2024, 15:30

i think it's kind o disingenuous to say soandso won't be d1ed here because it's a strong player list across the board. Arctic has made me actively wolf read him while syn is doing things that syn does as both alignments

Correction, I found a Dya comment on it.

Well now everyone has basically called the Syn wagon "meh". Thanks guys.

EnderWiggin

02-29-2024, 15:40

I'm going to use one more post on my defense because I'm feeling aggrieved by this.

Read Syn/Gemma/Visor. Read how each of them refers to each other. Cautious. Small footprint. A little banter but until Visor's EOD2 there was no super strong sus on each other in any capacity. And that comes out of left field like a fastball.

Comparatively, Syn and Gemma have no issue discussing me. They have strongly variable reads with Gemma trying to push a shaky townread and make it sound much stronger than it was. Syn pushing a sus and trying to undermine my read on him.

(As per:

but no really

most of his ISO revolves around waffling on arctic and an unexplained vote on jan as his bookends (with a promise that there's a secret reason), before hard turning into a vote on me and saying he sussed me all along)

Why am I the randomly chosen person to be awkwardly read by all the wolves when they avoided anything like that on D1 on ANYONE else on the team?

Do you really think they pick ME as the person to go deep by trying to wild-spew me? Visor was the one getting much more townreads at that point than anyone else. If I was to pick a wolf to go deep it would've been him. Not me. Also Visor and I tend to do really good spewing each other in the several wolf games we've had in the past, (I can point to a md game last year, and several MU games back in like 2022/2021, or hell the old 2014 games probably but I don't remember them clearly.)

Anyway. I know this is partially self-meta and I often say it's the easiest thing to do as wolf.

But just... reread how the wolves treated each other. Then how they treated me. There's a clear difference.

Comparatively they don't really have strong interactions with other living players. (Closest is Visor early cringing at Arctic posts, but he does the same to a Gemma post also on D1. It's the light shade I can easily see him doing to another wolf so it's ~whatever)

EnderWiggin

02-29-2024, 15:48

popped in to say that ladd isn't clear yet and people should be wary of him

Back to why I townread Dya.

Having them blow up over the GH vs Zack Logic read (btw GH was proven to have the more accurate one this game :curtain:) they disappeared. They could've just stayed out. There was no ladd post. But they dropped back in to post this.

This feels like more of what I'd expect from a town coming back to make sure their knowledge of ladd was expressed.

Arctic

02-29-2024, 15:49

I'm not interested in defence I'm interested in you wolfcasing dya or you die because it's not me or hally

Arctic

02-29-2024, 15:51

I know this sounds like I'm forcing your hand but like.. I am

you can blame me if it's wrong

EnderWiggin

02-29-2024, 15:53

I know this sounds like I'm forcing your hand but like.. I am

you can blame me if it's wrong

Nah fuck that.

I'm going to scumread who I want when I finish reading.

I give exactly 0 shits about what you think about that. If you're town then it's your job to find me when I do that. If you're wolf then... :curtain:

EnderWiggin

02-29-2024, 15:59

i dont actually have any intention of voting gh at eod because something something bropass or whatever

i wanted to just sheep visor but i also dont really want to vote vanta idk why

not yoting hally/rask/zack/jan/ender today

dya is happiness kryptonite so not touching that

I'm also getting more and more convinced the last wolf is not Dya.

Which is gonna make me look stupid if they're actually wolf. But I believe this so far.

EnderWiggin

02-29-2024, 16:28

i'm kinda sponging everyone on the visor wolfreads. the reasons just seem good and i agree visor was lacking impact yesterday. i think him or GH are my preferred votes atm

GH's posting just... seems really safe today? and as i'm catching up he still hasn't said who he thinks is mafia - i think he should have some more kind of.. urgency, or some sense of direction if he's townreading both logic and visor (judging from 832, or he's at least not sure on visor) but idrk what he's doing. he's just kinda angling around both logic and visor but it's not clear who he actually thinks is mafia

ngl the wolfiest thing about logic is that i don't think he had any reaction to zack flipping v when he was pretty tunneled there which. but like. i dunno. reading hally's post it seems the sus on him comes from not playing in a way that they'd expect the perfect villager to, but i just remember logic being generally weird and hitting a lot of level 0 scumtells so i'm not really convinced. the most convincing reason for them to be mafia is how wolves didn't do anything to try and kill him over syn, but in the world he's town it's possible wolves had locked themselves into townreading logic - like GH, who i think can probably be mafia

someone pulled up a quote of logic trying to omgus visor in another game so i don't think the lack of trying to engage with the people who sus him is really a wolftell, if anything the wolftell here is how he went less hard on zack in this game but it feels silly to actually call this wolfy

outside of this i still sus gemma and their last wall kinda reminded me that i thought they were wolfy lol. i still don't townread dya but i'm fine laying off there for reasons. i don't really have a read on wisdom but i feel like if she's mafia something would have come up by now. i like her recent thoughts on logic in 878, and even if i dont really understand the perspective slip thing i think the read's existence is villagery. rask was the main pusher of syn iirc so i was probably trolling there, same with ladd

i did feel like ender's syn vote felt kinda bus shaped, though idk why he would bus like that, but i guess it's possible he just stayed on after it looked like syn was gonna die, cuz i feel like him leaving his last vote as that doesn't make a ton of sense given it was just a "see what happens" vote iirc? need to check exactly how that went down but if there's a busser i think it's most likely him or GH

also i need to read syn posts - i see hally quoting syn reminds me that ender was syn's main push which level 0 would make ender town but i'm gonna check in full

i'm mainly looking at gh/visor/gemma rn and if i had to dart a level 0 world team it'd probably be this. i don't really think it's logic and i think gh/visor have been acting in a way that seems level 0 unpartnered with him but i dunno if i can really prove this + lolpreflips

btw is there an easier way to iso on this site cuz rn i've just been using the "find latest posts thing" but you have to click on each of post to expand them so it's kinda annoying

I think if I was to say Arctic was wolf this is the post I'd have to work out most.

This was early D2. Syn has been yeeted.

Does wolf!Arctic at this point plot out to interspace bussing his other two partners with other lhf town?

I'm putting this here to think over as I parse the rest of the D2.

EnderWiggin

02-29-2024, 16:29

If logic is a wolf there's a high chance gh is too.

And visor might be but I'm not sure there yet. I'd like to hear more about the wolf reads therr

no but I dont really have reasons he's a wolf either. Just that he could be one. Where i have reasons I think logic +/- GH could be wolves

rip bronana :end:

gj on syn gang

immediate thought is at least one of logic/visor is ~always a wolf

why the two of them always?

i mean it’s basically what you said, i don’t think the game makes sense if they’re both villas?

that would mean everyone who thought logic was wolfy yesterday are villagers who were wrong on v!logic and wolves didn’t try to take advantage of it when he was sitting right there as a counterwagon to syn (ig benneh could also be the wolf in this world but i’m sponging zack/ladd that he’s not)

it’s also just PoE though, like who are the wolves if they’re both villagers? it gets pretty wonky i think

and just off posting, i mean logic still just seems like a wolf lol

visor i’m not sure has posted wolfy, it’s more like a negative space thing. imo v!visor is usually more memorable or impactful than he’s been here and he’s missing some of the joie de vivre / leeroy energy he usually has. you don’t think so?

tbh i think it’s somewhat likely they’re w/w because in the quote from the v!logic game zack pulled logic was super strong on visor being someone who should never misread him and told people to nuke visor when he flipped town but this game visor wolf read him and i don’t think logic even acknowledged at all? he was hitting zack with sauce but afair completely ignored visor. and then closer to EoD when it was syn/logic wagons visor started pushing murska instead of just going for logic

Fair thanks for explaining. I was wondering where the connection was.

Visor or logic first

yea i agree

visor is prob the scariest villager i’ve ever wolfed against cuz his wolf reads are so uncannily good and he doesn’t give af about getting caught up in consensus or just killing low posters and stuff so you can’t really predict what he’s gonna do imo

and his murska push is pretty weaksauce by that standard

I think ben's entrance into the game today is really villagery. I was more on the fence about him yesterday. Although I've been a bit frustrated at times this game with Hally (mostly because I think my communication sucks), I think her solving today is mindmeldy to mine. I think the way she's looking at the game makes sense and she's re-evaluating based on flips - even if I sometimes disagree with the outcome. Like I think arctic's vote looks like the rest of his game did - agenda'd

Also noting this as a conversation that's relevant in some ways.

EnderWiggin

02-29-2024, 16:39

Hally

How strongly do you believe in your "Arctic never busses unless it's super necessary"?

I'm not going to defer my read to this but I found your note on it and just want to check your thoughts.

Hally

02-29-2024, 16:41

here now

damn she was right
yeah i really regret waffling on clearing wisdom and vanta but i just could never find a reason to be confident in it even though i didn’t really believe in them being wolves

if i could have towncased vanta better and convinced people there i think this game becomes a lot easier but i’m not sure anyone would have believed in it

feel like they were destined to get shrug yeeted at some point unfortunately

EnderWiggin

02-29-2024, 16:42

Gemma/ender i also have as not aligned iirc

Wild change of mind time.

We veering at 360 speeds on this road.

Vote: Gemma

So I was rereading D1 to get a feel of Arctic (And hopefully a case) when I started reading Gemma posts and have now decided that her townreading me when I was feeling attacked has meant I've ignored her slot probably more than I should've?

Gemma vote is partially because of these posts. I figured I should probably post these instead of just naked changing votes.

I lied I found another sequence that I think is actually clearing.

Also yes included Ladd's note because all his associative reads have been proven correct this game so far. =P

EnderWiggin

02-29-2024, 16:42

here now

yeah i really regret waffling on clearing wisdom and vanta but i just could never find a reason to be confident in it even though i didn’t really believe in them being wolves

if i could have towncased vanta better and convinced people there i think this game becomes a lot easier but i’m not sure anyone would have believed in it

feel like they were destined to get shrug yeeted at some point unfortunately

Honestly I'm super frustrated I backed down on my Wisdom read. I had it super strong D2/D3 and the fact that I didn't fight it hard is just nyeh.

EnderWiggin

02-29-2024, 16:47

Also I think I'm actually moving Hally to the "Definitely not the wolf pile." Even reading D2 trying to take the assumption that she's wolf feels so flimsy.

If you're wolf then you've won, good work.

EnderWiggin

02-29-2024, 16:50

i had a dream that we chain killed gh and visor and they both flipped wolf but we couldn't find the last wolf for shit and the game went to f3 where i got misyeeted (i dont remember who was in f3 or who the wolf was, probably dya)

This post is also very hilarious rn

Hally

02-29-2024, 16:54

If you clear me you'll be one closer to not being wrong?

But I'll remind you that Visor also said "Fuck the claim kill Gemma".

I don't think ignoring the claim means anything.
not sure why you’re conflating my treatment of gemma and visor’s? the context and manner in which we pushed them are completely different

visor pushed them after they softed and he was obv dying because he just wanted to eek out some equity and see if he could spew them before he died

i wolf read gemma and called them out as seeming w/w with syn before they softed anything and before most people were on the gemma wolf train then D4 after their soft had two nights to self resolve and they were still doing nothing while avoiding hard claiming i started to think they were a wolf again because i felt like worlds didn’t really make sense otherwise, and i feel like you can clearly see me grow more wary of letting them skate by as i realized that to the point where i even kinda wanted them dead EoD4

Arctic

02-29-2024, 17:02

uhm im pretty sure ender has postcapped

lol?

EnderWiggin

02-29-2024, 17:03

uhm im pretty sure ender has postcapped

lol?

This is my 26th. I'm finishing my read and waiting for Hally's response to my question atm.

Arctic

02-29-2024, 17:05

ah okay nvm, i think taffy's image of postcounts from yesterday was outdated

i do think i only have like 10 posts left so i'm gonna have to be be careful

ender, why is it that you care about some vague weaksauce meta from 1 dya wolfgame but you're quite happy to dismiss my rock solid no bussing meta that's existed for like 4 years?

Hally

02-29-2024, 17:06

not sure why you’re conflating my treatment of gemma and visor’s? the context and manner in which we pushed them are completely different

visor pushed them after they softed and he was obv dying because he just wanted to eek out some equity and see if he could spew them before he died

i wolf read gemma and called them out as seeming w/w with syn before they softed anything and before most people were on the gemma wolf train then D4 after their soft had two nights to self resolve and they were still doing nothing while avoiding hard claiming i started to think they were a wolf again because i felt like worlds didn’t really make sense otherwise, and i feel like you can clearly see me grow more wary of letting them skate by as i realized that to the point where i even kinda wanted them dead EoD4
also not that it matters but the single most clearing thing i’ve done this game is probably my EoD4 because when i post capped D4 i said i wasn’t going to be on for EoD (which i did think was true at the time) but then logic posted the self vote and stuff that really gave me cold feet about killing him but i was capped so i couldn’t say it so i literally woke up earlier than usual so i could make sure that i could post at EoD and tell people i wasn’t sure we should kill logic anymore but i also didn’t want to kill wisdom and floated a gemma cfd

and if im a wolf i just never make the effort to post at EoD there after saying i wouldn’t be on when the wagons are v/v and then suggest killing my teammate on top of that

Arctic

02-29-2024, 17:06

EnderWiggin

02-29-2024, 17:08

EnderWiggin

02-29-2024, 17:09

also not that it matters but the single most clearing thing i’ve done this game is probably my EoD4 because when i post capped D4 i said i wasn’t going to be on for EoD (which i did think was true at the time) but then logic posted the self vote and stuff that really gave me cold feet about killing him but i was capped so i couldn’t say it so i literally woke up earlier than usual so i could make sure that i could post at EoD and tell people i wasn’t sure we should kill logic anymore but i also didn’t want to kill wisdom and floated a gemma cfd

and if im a wolf i just never make the effort to post at EoD there after saying i wouldn’t be on when the wagons are v/v and then suggest killing my teammate on top of that

Dw I've caught up to reading you town again.

I had to give it a fair shake tbh. If you were wolf and I just held my townread on you I'd feel shit. This way at least I feel like I've shaken that tree and felt good out of it.

(28 :curtain:)

Hally

02-29-2024, 17:12

Do you really think they pick ME as the person to go deep by trying to wild-spew me?
i mean tbh when you put it like this i can see it because based on the wolf roles that flipped so far vs. the roles town has, the last wolf is definitely the strongest wolf role and probably quite good so if the team was going to try to spew any of them and send them deep it would be whatever that role is

i wouldn’t expect it of most wolves but i think visor specifically is the kind of wolf to set that kind of thing up, he’s an amazing strategist

Hally

02-29-2024, 17:13

ender can you just tell us who you think the wolf is and why

i feel like you’re talking about everything except that

EnderWiggin

02-29-2024, 17:14

i mean tbh when you put it like this i can see it because based on the wolf roles that flipped so far vs. the roles town has, the last wolf is definitely the strongest wolf role and probably quite good so if the team was going to try to spew any of them and send them deep it would be whatever that role is

i wouldn’t expect it of most wolves but i think visor specifically is the kind of wolf to set that kind of thing up, he’s an amazing strategist

I'm a wolf who often sacrifices powerful roles for cred. "Protecting the powerful role" is too predictable.

But yes self-meta you can ignore this post. I acknowledge Visor is a good rebuff of that point *shrug*

(29)

Totally not Taffy

02-29-2024, 17:15

It does seem that I've posted the wrong picture somewhere which means the correct one might not exist. A quick manual count gives the following:

Ender 29
Arctic 18
Hally 9
Dyachei 5

EnderWiggin

02-29-2024, 17:15

ender can you just tell us who you think the wolf is and why

i feel like you’re talking about everything except that

I have blatantly said that my main sus is Arctic.

Kindly request you actually read my posts before you poke that shit at me.

(Even when I'm not saying it I have called you town and have quoted a bunch of things that I think clear Dya. That should indicate it anyway.)

Arctic

02-29-2024, 17:16

well he thinks it's me since he doesn't think it's either of you two

which to be honest, i actually quite like cuz it means i'm forced to just kill him and don't really have to think, and he's either wolf or it was dya who he was clearing for shitty reasons and i can laugh at him being both in the poe and wrong in f4

Hally

02-29-2024, 17:17

I'm also getting more and more convinced the last wolf is not Dya.

Which is gonna make me look stupid if they're actually wolf. But I believe this so far.
for full transparency, when i was tunneling dya i confbiased that post as gemma leaking wolfchat itt because if dya is a wolf and them/syn were getting a ton of heat i imagine wolfchat was not a fun vibe D1 and dya probably would be pretty upset in wolfchat

but it feels kinda icky to speculate about and i don’t really care anymore anyway

EnderWiggin

02-29-2024, 17:19

Hally

This is why I'm explicitly asking you to re-visit your comments about Arctic's meta.

You're the one I'm most confident in being town at this horrible 3am, so I want to check Arctic's meta (which I'm not super familiar with) against your knowledge.

I know you've made a confident-ish statement about it earlier but I'm not going to sit on that exactly.

Hally

02-29-2024, 17:23

Hally

How strongly do you believe in your "Arctic never busses unless it's super necessary"?

I'm not going to defer my read to this but I found your note on it and just want to check your thoughts.
i think not likely but i have never actually seen him wolf in a normal game, i’m just going off how he wolfs in turbos plus how he has described his own wolf meta pregame which is that he avoids bussing unless he feels like it will basically be game winning, which… i guess in this game it would be

but i think he’s villagery even outside of pushing wolves and benneh, ladd and rask all thought so too so i just can’t see myself getting there if its him, sorry

Arctic

02-29-2024, 17:25

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/43736-help-test-5-home-sweet-home
this was my last wolfgame

Hally

02-29-2024, 17:27

I have blatantly said that my main sus is Arctic.

Kindly request you actually read my posts before you poke that shit at me.

(Even when I'm not saying it I have called you town and have quoted a bunch of things that I think clear Dya. That should indicate it anyway.)
yes i gathered that you think it’s arctic still but i still don’t know why

you’re wolf reading his EoD2? is there anything else? i really need you to lay it out as best you can

Hally

02-29-2024, 17:30

right now to me you feel like you’re boxed in and don’t know how to case arctic or what to do really because you keep talking around why you think he’s a wolf

Hally

02-29-2024, 17:32

dyachei are you around

EnderWiggin

02-29-2024, 17:33

right now to me you feel like you’re boxed in and don’t know how to case arctic or what to do really because you keep talking around why you think he’s a wolf

I have a longer case but wanted to gather everything before I dumped it. I can format what I've got and show you.

Hally

02-29-2024, 17:35

Hally

02-29-2024, 17:36

I have a longer case but wanted to gather everything before I dumped it. I can format what I've got and show you.
it’s okay take your time, i just thought you were on a time crunch

EnderWiggin

02-29-2024, 17:47

Quick summary of the quotes I've gathered over the last few hours and why I was thinking it made Arctic a wolf:

1. Early start was very... iffy at best. But it was ~fine until his re-entry was centred around a shoddy push onto Rask that felt agenda'd at the best of times. (I was hardly the only person who thought this about this set of posts, so this is no surprise.)

you guys are really funny i'm giggling

re: zack - yeah im european

i wasn't trying to bait people with my opener i'm just cringe, but i agree that the sus on me felt kinda bad because i was being avoidably wolfy and even acknowledged that it was coming across like that so voting me feels level 0. i'm prob not gonna pursue it because there was really nothing to go off at that point so i get reaching to make an RVS vote

but i will say that i feel like the way zack handled my posts is how i'd expect a villager to do - he recognized they weren't good but he noted that he had 0% belief in sussing me for those posts and doesn't really care to push me but wolves will pretend they don't see it

i haven't really liked anything else rask has posted either since voting me - they've kept up a consistent presence but feel very "hello fellow kids-ey". as for murska, i actually got the sense they believed in their vote of me from their later justification but then i read 94 from jan and um i changed my mind because that makes a lot more sense lmao

also zack, i've seen your read on logic and uhh i guess i could see it? but i don't know if i'd say i agree - sorry this isn't helpful but you wanted people to talk with you about it lol

the only people i really sus is basically cuz of omgus, wow i'm good at mafia

also i think zack is town in case that wasn't clear already- the way he's talking about his reads and qualifying them with different levels of belief seems genuine and some other stuff i don't think wolves do like saying wisdom's behaviour needs to be noted without actually attributing a read to it. oh and also making reads about how nobody reacted to his logic case - gives me the sense he really believes in that read and kinda borders on confbias but idk not really

i think jan's observations on me are correct and are also how i'd expect an experienced villa to react to my posts at sod - i dunno if i'd say they're town yet but i'm nodding along to their thoughts on me/murska

hally too but she kinda stole these thoughts from jan so L

i think i would be sussing you even without that
could you explain where hally was pockety? she just seems to be meming as much as everyone else so i'm not sure why you have given specifically her this label

i feel like if there's anyone bussing logic it's you
where have you decisively pushed him lol? the first time you mentioned him was agreeing with zack's sus on him and then you said he had a "meh" opening

vote: Raskolnikov

i dunno man this is like strike 3 for weirdness

i mean i dunno, i feel like i could say the same about logic (which is ironically what you all jumped on ender for even though i kinda agree with his assessment)

but even if i was misinterpreting that last post i don't think being french explains the sus on hally or how it feels like they're fos'ing like the entire game

umm but seriously speaking

even if the main reason for rask's push is being underwhelming, that's not much better either? because everyone is underwhelming lol. half the list isn't even playing yet. it's a light game and everyone's kinda messing around, so i don't think it makes sense to single you out for this. i also don't know if i'd consider this wolfy for you even if you weren't the only person doing this because i'm used to you kinda doing nothing in turbos on day 1 as town and trying harder as mafia

it did feel like rask was sussing a lot of people - he said he felt meh on you and benneh and sussed me, logic, and murska - that's 5 people, and maybe they aren't fleshed out wolfreads but the implication is still kinda there. and idk i'm just kinda predisposed to wolfread this personally cuz i got off a wolfgame where i kinda did the same game, and "how easy this person is to push" wasn't something i really thought about at this early of a stage, wolves don't need to push everyone they wolfread, they just need to sow the seeds and see what sticks

i have played with logic before yes, once, and i incorrectly suspected him in that game mostly because of the way he spoke in binary/absolute terms and seeming generally awkward in the way he came across, so i haven't found the pushes on him in this game convincing even though i don't townread him either. i said that about rask cuz i thought they were acting in a way that's w/w with logic even though i don't wolfread logic - that is, trying to milk cred for pushing him when he's barely done that (but according to everyone this is just a joke so w/e), and also his last post about me is implying a townread because of a preflip of logic wolf if i understand correctly. so yeah

oh and answering 209 at the same time - wait actually i kinda already answered this, i don't really think you lacking is wolfy because of my experience with you in turbos

Nah you are right

Rask is a villager and artic push on them felt super malicious

And not beacause rask is a villager, the reasoning just feels way off...rask is a wolf for fosing a lot of people? Cmn friendo thats not a real reason

Hyperfixation on Rask slot = low footprint tell for mafia. Tending to keep targets they have to talk about to a minimum. Ladd calls out the wolfiness of this.

wolfy post m'lord

Visor's reaction is very much the same as when Gemma had a wolfy post but this is partially confbias.

2. For the main body of 80% of D1, their takes on Syn/Gemma were... wishy-washy while avoiding needing to do anything about them. Their posts on Visor were almost non-existent. More importantly, they never really addressed them individually, and instead posted around and paired the dismissal with something else usually.

I guess I agree with the take that GH would probably feel more pressured to do something here as mafia but dya's first read being this over anything else is pretty bad imo

I don't think I like anything gemma has posted either

maybe i'm jumping the gun a bit on gemma a bit cuz they haven't done much either but their posts kinda fall between doing nothing / trying to do something and failing

apparently they townread ender for the bait to GH which seemed completely NAI to me and reads more as pockety towards ender, and the general focus on GH over.. anything else just kinda seems wolfy

am i being too uncharitable here? i'm worried i'm just construing normal posting as bad cuz i wanna find something but like i don't really get what they're doing. same applies to dya. both feel like struggly wolf entrances

btw i don't really think ender is a wolf, i think he's kinda playing his all over the place towngame which gets him killed a lot (this is bladescape, right?) and him going back and forth over stuff doesn't really seem calculated to me

I don't really know what syn is doing and I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do about half the game saying they sound normal and half the game saying they sound off cuz this means nothing to me

tbh ladd is probably mafia but idk if i care to prove it right now

syn is a fine shrug wagon if they aren't gonna play the game but the wagon comp on them doesn't really inspire confidence

dya's recent posts did nothing for me personally so i'm curious what the people who were insistent on letting them cook have to say about that

Anyway, I do have some townreads on benneh/hally/jan that I want stated but I don't really think it's productive to elucidate right now - except on Jan for Ender's sake which I would do had GH pretty much not already done it - I liked their post on gemma, and I think the way they handled my posting at SoD in good faith realizing it might TWTBAW is much more likely to be how a critically thinking villa handles a situation like that rather than someone out for blood

can someone explain why Rask is obv town? are they polarized to some degree, or am I missing something? None of their posting has really sold me, I can see that perhaps I was too uncharitable about their earlier posting but even when I account for this I don't find anything showing a villa perspective in their recent posts

I don't really find the arguments for Logic being a wolf convincing. The examples of zack quoted from a different game don't.. really feel that different from Logic here. I don't know what I'm really trying to achieve by saying this because I can't really in good conscience call him town even though that's the way I'm leaning from some nebulous things. and I don't know how to parse the divide in plyers familiar with him acting like he's outted vs GH shielding him, it's kinda mirroring what's going on with Syn who's posts I have even less thoughts about

I feel like the towniest thing ladd has done is giving me a D1 pass given that he was trying to murk me earlier. but who knows, maybe my reads suck and wolves think it's good to keep me around

I think I could vote gemma but I wouldn't really be surprised if it wasn't a hit. Gemma could you explain why you townread blade from the "master bait" of GH? it felt like a completely NAI joke to me, and jan's post summarized my thoughts on your entrance seeming agenda'd pretty well, and since then I've felt like you've been pretty impactless even though I don't find your posting wolfy, if that makes sense. so I have mild concerns

I think the last thing I'll prob do today is consolidate a read on Ender cause I've felt like he's town but haven't explained it very well and I would probably vote both logic and syn over him. But my understanding is that he is being voted out for being back and forth all over the place which I'll cede isn't conducive to projecting town but I don't think it makes him a wolf either.

after reading his iso the impression i get is that he is either a wolf just blatantly trying to cycle through murdering as many spks during the day as possible and seeing what sticks, or he's just a villager manouevring through the game in a back-and-forth way without explaining a lot of his random 180s and he's getting wolfread cuz of that. i find the latter explanation more likely than the first because i don't think most people play as mafia like this. but i can't confidently call him town because that first explanation is still there (i do play as mafia like this, lol) and it's entirely possible he is just throwing shit around, mainly because i don't like any of his pushes, even though i lean against that being the case

EnderWiggin can you explain your thoughts on gemma and dya more

3. (Confbias alert) Their post about shields on Rask felt like the post I could see wolves making when salty over accurate shields on town.

Can you explain why? There are a number of shields being thrown around like this that I don't know how to engage with because I don't have the same meta as all of you and it's making it hard for me to find my footing in this game. There are more than 4 players being strongly townread by at least someone so somebody is fucking up here.

4. This sequence at EOD1 felt... bad. They straight up acknowledge they don't look good. Give a half-hearted effort to read it as v/v and then only vote Syn after the wagon has become runaway to the point where no-one else is getting voted out.

im kinda not surprised murska is v (taking the claim at face value) judging from this wagon comp lol

thats the only wagon that feels stinky the others feel mostly equally fine to me which might indicate v/v

ok well im fine with syn dying

ignore what i just said about the wagons if syn is a wolf

(im not coming out of this looking good either way actually lmao

OK W/E, I really hope you guys are right about this

vote: Syn

5. D2 start there's a couple of odd focuses. Specifically around the whole "Wolves probably have a busser" read that they tried to discredit. This is the thing I was originally pushing them on early D2 from anyway.

wow! you guys sure were right about this!

i did nothing overnight ftr

wolves could have either been bussing or just had not enough thread presence or control to get logic out

and nobody actually did a good job of convincing me to vote logic either

idt the offwagon kill indicates much because there's a claimed protective who wolves didn't kill so it's likely a doc dodge

that isn't to say i necessarily think wolves didn't bus, just that the kill doesn't really indicate it imo

absolutely do not clear dya for this, in a recent wolfgame they attempted to refuge in audacity townreading a runaway wagon on a wolf partner who was p much always dying d1 (hydra g2 with benneh)

do you not think gemma is a wolf anymore? why'd you vote her at eod?

6. Before he made that post I quoted earlier where he pretty much committed to bussing all 3 partners via heavy sus on Gemma/Visor (before Gemma softed PR and Arctic began to be a hard defender.) his approach was a wishy washy "idk guis"

visor's iso is pretty horrendous to the point where idk if i'd actually consider his engagement AI because i know he can do a lot better than this as either alignment
just not really anything beyond surface level thoughts, and idrk why i'm saying this because it's not like visor can't post well as mafia, i just dunno what he's doing regardless of alignment

the actual wolfiest thing imo is the way he voted vanta then took a jab at logic voting vanta with the implication that it was a pretty bad pressure vote when it seemed like that was why he voted them too?

he asked ladd/raskol for thoughts on syn and admittedly between that post and when he came back to the thread neither had posted anything about syn, but when he came back to the thread closer to eod while ladd was there he didn't push the matter any further and last thing they said about syn was this:

i dunno i feel like people are kinda overstating how bad it is even tho it's not great

i'm more interested in why he just decided that murska had to die seemingly out of nowhere

it's hard for me to tell what's AI cuz he doesn't explain a lot and was barely playing and that's why stuff seems surface level wolfy even tho that's not necessarily the explanation

If I were to argue this point, it feels like he was wishy-washy on the Gemma/Visor stuff up until a switch was flicked when he suddenly turned on the spotlight of sus. He was hardly the first onto either wagon and Ladd, Benneh, and Hally had all stated reads to sus the other two remaining wolves before Arctic did this.

7. The night kills (NKA bois). If Dya is wolf... why are Arctic and Hally still alive? There was a period when Hally/Arctic hadn't turned back on Dya, but both had pushed them heavily on D1/Early D2. Dya had become very defensive towards them both. I don't see why F4 contains the two people who were pressuring Dya D1/D2 if they're wolf? Like if I were to pick someone favoured by the night kills, it'd be much more me/Arctic over Dya.

8. EOD2. Over-drama. I haven't got to quoting this part so I'm just tacking it on the end because I know this was in my mind.

EnderWiggin

02-29-2024, 17:50

i’m honestly still scared it’s dya but i guess we’re just losing in that case because my heart isn’t in it anymore and rask/benneh thought it was ender more and ender doesn’t think it’s dya so i’m not sure how we could win

Ladd thought I was unpaired with Gemma
Jan thought I was town hard

Ngl if you read all of my thoughts and tell me I'm being stupid on Arctic I'll move on and vote Dya. Gut is screaming it's Arctic but I know I'm town and if you believe it's Dya I'll take that over being the losing yeet.

And yes I'm fully aware this sounds wolfy, deal with it.

EnderWiggin

02-29-2024, 17:50

it’s okay take your time, i just thought you were on a time crunch

It's nearly 4am but I've accepted that if I don't want to regret my contribution this F4 then I'm sucking it up.

EnderWiggin

02-29-2024, 17:52

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/43736-help-test-5-home-sweet-home
this was my last wolfgame

I did read this and considering it btw.

I do notice light dustings of sus/dismissal of allies like I'm pointing out from D1, but I do acknowledge that there's no hard bussing like Arctic would've had to do this game if he's wolf.

EnderWiggin

02-29-2024, 18:06

Also as an addendum:
Arctic's whole "I'm gonna force you to case Dya" rubs me absolutely the wrong way. I wanted to add it to the case but idk how self-centred that is.

(37 - Now I *do* have to be careful with remaining posts.)

Hally

02-29-2024, 18:08

ender how do the kills point to arctic? did any of the kills wolf read him? iirc benneh even said if he died the read he wanted sheeped most was arctic v lol

Hally

02-29-2024, 18:12

Ladd thought I was unpaired with Gemma
Jan thought I was town hard

Ngl if you read all of my thoughts and tell me I'm being stupid on Arctic I'll move on and vote Dya. Gut is screaming it's Arctic but I know I'm town and if you believe it's Dya I'll take that over being the losing yeet.

And yes I'm fully aware this sounds wolfy, deal with it.
i know ladd thought that and i did too but i’m more heavily weighing benneh saying we shouldn’t be clearing you for that and rask strongly thinking it was you

also idk why you keep citing jan’s town read because he was very likely rolecop’d and killed because of that because there’s like no other way wolves kill jan N2 in that gamestate with their strongman and i feel like you’re kinda being obtuse about that

he wasn’t killed for his reads

EnderWiggin

02-29-2024, 18:13

ender how do the kills point to arctic? did any of the kills wolf read him? iirc benneh even said if he died the read he wanted sheeped most was arctic v lol

No one has been calling him wolf. There's no one to kill on that front.

But you/Dya live for the dichotomy of how you two have been interacting.

You specifically have been one of his best buddies in terms of you two townreading each other from much earlier in the game. More-so than Benneh even.

The POE not dying is obvious. But the Rask kill/Benneh kill are removing people that have reason to reconsider in the final stages, keeping his closest townread around and holding the advantageous conflicts. Rask kill has the added bonus of looking like a kill I would absolutely make.

But I know the same argument can be applied to me.

It's mostly an argument of "The kills are less likely to be Dya rather than more likely to be Arctic."

And yes if Dya is the wolf I'm just making myself look dumber in post but nyeh.

Hally

02-29-2024, 18:14

i’m sorry ender but i just can’t vote arctic here

even if i thought it was him i don’t think i could go against the dead villas and kill him, would never get over it if it’s wrong and i went against my town read of him since D2 to lose the game

and i honestly just don’t find your case convincing sorry