Capo di Tutti Capi III [Concluded]

[Joe Monks]

I don't believe anything in this thread.

However if Factionheir is a stracchi made and its confirmed then I guess I will start to believe ask the pizza guy.

I want to know what stranger did to get rid of pever even if he was a wiseguy. Messing with town protection groups is scummy.

Vote TheStranger

For some reason my gut tells me that nobody should at this early stage of the game keep the directors chair without a good reason.

Im the director and I just happen to know that these two are mafia. Could be a mafia role has access to that kind of information as well as a detective. Im just suspicious till proven otherwise.

FOS:Reenk

Anyway with that in mind - unless i have a pro-town reason to vote for Reenk now im going to select someone else.

Select:Tincow

Joe

[scottishranger]

Once again The Stranger is already dead.

So far It appears were are on the path to lynching a dead person...

[White_eyes:D]

Select: Reenk Roink Club 30 is the place to be:wink:

The Pro-town groups failure, doesn't surprise me...and I don't think this well be the last Protect-vig combo that doesn't mix well but it helps to weed out mafia:juggle2:

I am going with Reenks lead on this one:beam:
Vote:Ironside

[Reenk Roink]

On the protection groups, it may be that the killers are ambitious townies who want to become something more than they are. A vig group is always more dangerous than a protection group because of the kind of roles it produces. That being said, it is odd that NONE of the protectors seemed to protect as brought up earlier by Ironside.

On Ironside and disco, I have gotten word from two different sources that they have kill ability (one said vig in a context which may be). Ironside has also been present in the townie groups, never seen disco in those.

Note, I never said these guys were Mafia. I said to "watch them" (hint hint - investigate) and put them forward as alternative lynch choices to the badly misguided townie groups. If you're going to hit one, pick disco first.

Also, to the business of my reselection, I leave you with my new ad campaign:

https://img10.imageshack.us/img10/1782/againagain.jpg (https://img10.imageshack.us/i/againagain.jpg/)

Select: Reenk Roink

Again! Again!

[Jolt]

I thought using screenshots was categorically illegal in this game.

[Myrddraal]

Reenk I think you should justify your directions to the town to vote one way or another. If you don't you are starting a dangerous trend where anyone can say "I know things you don't, therefore vote X" which is a great excuse for townies not to think and be lead along by the nose by anyone who cares to.

EDIT: I too should refresh more often... This was posted before Reenk's last post.

[pevergreen]

Look, anyone from either the group that was supposed to vig attack pever or the group that was supposed to protect him (apparently ts thought that this would be the best use of about 8 people and those 8 people went along with it mostly :rolleyes: WHAT THE ****?!?) would be a good lynch.
TS is angry at me, because I refused to be part of his group organising.


Because Sasaki was caught in the act.

-edit- and he's Sasaki.

I'm hungry for his death. Hungry like The Wolf


ts - the organzier of lets both protect and attack pever but shift things a lot and cause confusion so that people get confused on what they are doing - organized it. You can't draw any conclusions from it.

The entire pever debacle is just serving to distract the town do to the fact that pro town groups generally suck.

TS wanted me to die.


The killing of pever seems strange... do we have any official reason for this act.. ?

Or was this an attempt to do the attack and defend groups like we have in other games ?

See above, I wouldn't work with TS, so he wanted me dead.


The logic behind staging an attack seem awkward to me.
Was it to "help" someone progress to become a doctor? Or was it to "clear" pever. Maybe Seamus in his evilness rolls a die in such stageups and pever lost?

I was a normal dude, I had been contacted by TS, and one or two other people. They will have to say what I said, since i cant (I edited this line, so i stay inside the rules :yes:) I was staying low, after last game >_>


Ok, analysis of night kills. Won't vote yet.

And of course pevergreen. Hit by a vigiliante group. Now the interesting part about his protection is that unless Seamus has changed his writing, NONE of his protectors were doing their job. In that chase we would have one or two guys showing up but failing with the protection. If one guy, he would probably lucky to even be alive or dying on duty. Instead we only got a clean kill written so to speak.
The Stranger's behavior definitly doesn't seem to be pro-townie considering what RR said about pever, but the protection group behaviour is bordering on the extreme. :inquisitive:


I'm too sexy to be left alive. :smoking:

Again, again for Reenk!

[a completely inoffensive name]

I can only assume that Pever died because his insult on my Billy Mays sig caused Billy Mays fans from both sides to unite and take his disrespectful *** out of the game. Let that be a lesson to any of you ShamWow fans who might be counting down until the "too soon" period ends.

[gibsonsg91921]

Careful pever, role reveals are explicitly forbidden in the rules for the dead.

[Reenk Roink]

Myrd - everytime I suggested a lynch I gave the background info on why I did (I know it's hard to find this thread grows so fast). Also, I wanted to spill the beans before my immunity wore off (though if I am reelected :2thumbsup:). I didn't give the names of everyone involved in the groups because I want the mafia to kill each other off and not have a fodder list.

Also, this just confirms, don't listen to ts. I don't know what his role is, but his actions were inexplicable to me... :wall:

Lastly, I confirm pever as wiseguy and his behavior in the game (did earlier in the thread too) so he can edit it out but the info is still known. We worked together closely, and now he's gone. :sad: Going to Club 30 to get hammered now.

[pevergreen]

Careful pever, role reveals are explicitly forbidden in the rules for the dead.

oopsie, edited out, thanks :bow:

Reenk, we will meet again...in number...four *dies*

[TinCow]

Select: Reenk Roink

His write-ups are entertaining and being Director doesn't make him immune to being lynched if he turns out scummy.

vote: woad&fangs

The thing that concerns me the most about pever's death is the fact that several people just got bumped up one notch towards a promotion towards wiseguy or Made. We're still so early in the game that I doubt people would refuse such a promotion. Thus, all those who got credit for the successful kill are highly probable future mafiosos. woad&fangs is the current vote leader from that group, so my vote goes to bump him up further.

If evidence comes out that points to an actual mafioso instead of just a potential, I will change my vote. For now though we seem to have a simple choice between about a dozen people who want to go mafioso. In that situation, those with kills to their name should be given priority.

[slashandburn]

Select: Reenk Roink Don't change what's working.

[Sigurd]

The thing that concerns me the most about pever's death is the fact that several people just got bumped up one notch towards a promotion towards wiseguy or Made. We're still so early in the game that I doubt people would refuse such a promotion. Thus, all those who got credit for the successful kill are highly probable future mafiosos. woad&fangs is the current vote leader from that group, so my vote goes to bump him up further.

If evidence comes out that points to an actual mafioso instead of just a potential, I will change my vote. For now though we seem to have a simple choice between about a dozen people who want to go mafioso. In that situation, those with kills to their name should be given priority.
Fair assessment.
Those who has been revealed as wanting to become mafia (Sasaki, Jolt) might not have been able to kill yet.

But we have the pevergreen murder and the list of the perpetrators. Who among them was credited for the kill? Six of them total.

vote: woad&fangs

Is GH running for office?

Select : GH

[Joooray]

Well I gotta a admit I'm entirely in the dark over here and have little idea of what is going on. So I find it hard to decide upon someone to lynch and want to think about it a bit more.

Anyway, Reenk is making an interesting case and I see little harm in selecting him as a director again, so
Select:Reenk

[pevergreen]

Lynch Sasaki. It always works well.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Tally:

Sasaki: 4 (GH, gibsonsg, slashandburn, Chaotix)
woad&fangs: 4 (Shinseikhaan, scottishranger, Tincow, Sigurd)
Shlin28: 2 (Andres, Crazed Rabbit)
Ironside: 1 (White_Eyes)
Andres: 1 (Sasaki)



Director Selections

Reenk: 10 (Crazed Rabbit, Shinsei, Chaotix, Scottish, ricera, DJG, WhiteEyes, reenk Roink, Tincow, slashandburn)
TinCow: 1 (Joe Monks)
GH: 1 (Jooray)

[Joe Monks]

Unvote

seems iv voted to lynch a dead guy.

Tally:

Sasaki: 4 (GH, gibsonsg, slashandburn, Chaotix)
woad&fangs: 3 (Shinseikhaan, scottishranger, Tincow)
Shlin28: 2 (Andres, Crazed Rabbit)
Ironside: 1 (White_Eyes)
Andres: 1 (Sasaki)


Out of those who are the most supicious - likely to be mafia right now?

[Louis VI the Fat]

The_stranger gets killed. He has french in it and references to Belgians we say. It almost seems as someone is trying to point towards me or Andres.

If Louis was playing I'd be thinking of him. But that seems not to be the case. Louis would not have mis-spelled 'L'Etranger'. It needed an accent aigu: 'L'Étranger'. :whip:

FOS: Moros and Andres for not noticing the imperfect French in the write-ups. (Pretending not to notice it?)
Either they are guilty, or they insult the language of Molière by not having aquired a stellar command of it at school. Both is extremely scummy. Either way, Flemish insubordinance, whether to the town or to French, must never remain unpunished.


[needless thread clutter]
('Stranger' and 'Étranger' are what linguists call 'false friends'. That is, they appear to have similar meanings based on akin morphology or etymology, whereas in fact they are not. The words have slightly different meanings. So a Frenchman would not have made the translation.
It is not the product of Babelfish either. However rubbish at translating phrases, online translators do not make spelling mistakes.
Also, one would only use the word if one has a prior awareness of the existence of a similar word in French to English stranger. The write-up is the work of a person who knew the word 'Étranger' without consulting a dictionary or online translator.

All of which means we are looking for a native English speaker, with a firm but imperfect command of French. I'd wager anything that it is the product of Seamus.)
[/clutter]

[pevergreen]

Didn't GH select himself?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Vote: CountArach

Strong hunch.

[Beefy187]

Next time we do a protection group, we should start talking about it before the night commences :no:

I'll wait for more development before I vote.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Vote: CountArach

Strong hunch.

Could you give us some reasons for your hunch, or is this just some gut reasoning?

CR

[Askthepizzaguy]

Reasons for voting for CountArach?

Well, he's a Count. That's obviously scummy.

[El Diablo]

Vote Sasaki Wanting to be mafia is never ever a good thing.

Select RR Simple humour added to the game.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Again, if someone wants me to vote for someone, just PM me with a reason why. I am not going to cave into this "HEY YOU SAID SOMETHING ODD 5 PAGES BACK AND THAT'S HOW I KNOW YOU SHOULD BE LYNCHED!" stuff.

[Splitpersonality]

Vote: Sasaki

Select: ReenkRoink

Because I love bandwaggons

[Gaius Scribonius Curio]

Select: Reenk Roink for the stellar job he's doing.

Vote: Jolt

I've not been able to follow the Pever scandal, and there are enough votes surrounding Woad & Fangs and Shlin for the moment. Basically I'm still not satisfied with his explanation of his actions from yesterday regarding FactionHeir's revelations, and I don't want to have to wait three days for peoples interests to shift back to these events. Given that I was attacked last night it is possible that someone wasn't happy with me, who are the only people I've singled out, Yaropolk (townie) and Jolt...

Weak reasoning, but better than another runaway bandwagon...

[Beskar]

Sasaki and Count Anarch are both good targets, that is why I obviously voted for them last round. It wasn't random. :smash:

vote: Sasaki because your threats to silence me won't work now. :beam:

[Jolt]

Fair assessment.
Those who has been revealed as wanting to become mafia (Sasaki, Jolt) might not have been able to kill yet.

Taking into account that Reenk approached me on behalf of TheStranger asking if I wanted to participate in a vig group, offer which I rejected for not knowing whether TheStranger was Mafia or not, renders your "reveal" as me wanting to become Mafia quite the fail.

[Beefy187]

Again, if someone wants me to vote for someone, just PM me with a reason why. I am not going to cave into this "HEY YOU SAID SOMETHING ODD 5 PAGES BACK AND THAT'S HOW I KNOW YOU SHOULD BE LYNCHED!" stuff.

This may get you lynched

[Jolt]

Select: Reenk Roink for the stellar job he's doing.

Vote: Jolt

I've not been able to follow the Pever scandal, and there are enough votes surrounding Woad & Fangs and Shlin for the moment. Basically I'm still not satisfied with his explanation of his actions from yesterday regarding FactionHeir's revelations, and I don't want to have to wait three days for peoples interests to shift back to these events. Given that I was attacked last night it is possible that someone wasn't happy with me, who are the only people I've singled out, Yaropolk (townie) and Jolt...

Weak reasoning, but better than another runaway bandwagon...

That's odd, I didn't even realize you had spoken about me until now. But that's always a good way of getting my attention. Besides such weak reasoning to try to start a bandwagon on me is always a sign of something scummy.

Vote: Gaius Scribonius Curio

[Askthepizzaguy]

Did anyone get their night results back yet?

I'd strongly advise not creating a runaway bandwagon until we get some results back.

[Splitpersonality]

I haven't gotten anything back, I know my orders went through because it was in the writeup, despite one of the people working with me dying the same night...


This may give us insight into the orders in which orders are carried out...

[Gaius Scribonius Curio]

I'd assume nobody has results back yet, Seamus indicated that they'd be late...

[Diana Abnoba]

I agree

But we can

Select: Reenk Roink at least for now. I liked the unusual way he kills the lynched victims.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I'll follow up by saying I know how tempting a target Sasaki is, but we are voting for him for what? Trying to form a vigilante group? We already have names of members who were in a group, and succeeded in killing someone, thus putting them further down the wiseguy/made path than Sasaki already is. So if you were going to lynch a two-bit player, those would be where you would start.

Secondly, maybe we could lynch someone more important than a wannabe. Pehaps one of the dingoes that ate our baby. We might have a decent lead on one of those as soon as people get their results back.

Hold off on big bandwagon. Plenty of time left in the round. Last round was good, let's follow up on that.

[Gaius Scribonius Curio]

That's odd, I didn't even realize you had spoken about me until now. But that's always a good way of getting my attention. Besides such weak reasoning to try to start a bandwagon on me is always a sign of something scummy.

Vote: Gaius Scribonius Curio
In response to this, a more complete summary of my train of thought. FactionHeir was accused by ATPG and his group of being Mafia, based on a weak claim that the person he replaced (Imperator Invictus) revealed his role prior to the beginning of the game. Personally I think that it was patently obvious that Seamus would rejig the roles in order to mask this, but...

In response, Factionheir claimed that he had been contacted by Yaropolk and Jolt who believed that he was mafia. Yaropolk claimed to want to switch sides, and Jolt claimed to have information for him on a pro-town role to be taken out. Yaropolk is now dead.

It was only after this accusation that Jolt attempted to get Factionheir lynched, claiming that he was 'fishing for information'. While this is a plausible idea, ATPG rightly pointed out that he had plenty of oppurtunity to accuse him prior to Factionheir accusing him. The bandwagon was already rolling and Jolt could have produced said damning evidence before Factionheir accused him. Perhaps he didn't because he was mafia or mafia-affiliated and wanted to see if FactionHeir would take him up on his nefarious offer.

Add to this what I said in thread 15 minutes ago. Its hardly damning but it is a valid case. Personally I don't think that admitting a case is full of holes is a good way to start a bandwagon. My intention is merely to draw attention to the fact that we have no satisfactory answers from you, Jolt, and to keep your slip up in memory while we go and chase other 'targets', who may or may not be more deserving of our attention.

[a completely inoffensive name]

This may get you lynched

Only if a group manipulates everyone to lynch someone not likely to fall for any sensationalist disinformation the group will try to implement to further their own goals. The best tactic for disabling a group from mobilizing against a threat is by taking out the rational, calm and thinking ones first so the bandwaggoning others can be easily disrupted and then taken down one by one. If wanting order and rational thinking gets me lynched then the town has already lost and I will lose respect for many of the people here who I think are smart people.

[Beefy187]

Only if a group manipulates everyone to lynch someone not likely to fall for any sensationalist disinformation the group will try to implement to further their own goals. The best tactic for disabling a group from mobilizing against a threat is by taking out the rational, calm and thinking ones first so the bandwaggoning others can be easily disrupted and then taken down one by one. If wanting order and rational thinking gets me lynched then the town has already lost and I will lose respect for many of the people here who I think are smart people.

It may get you lynched, because by asking someone else to tell you who to lynch, you are forfeiting to think your self. This is bad, because being neutral in this game makes you look scummy and being a epic bandwagoner will make you look scummy as well. Also because the only person you should trust is your self at this stage (Unless your a detective)

[a completely inoffensive name]

It may get you lynched, because by asking someone else to tell you who to lynch, you are forfeiting to think your self. This is bad, because being neutral in this game makes you look scummy and being a epic bandwagoner will make you look scummy as well. Also because the only person you should trust is your self at this stage (Unless your a detective)

How is it forfeiting thinking for myself by asking people to actually come up with a reason why I should for who they want me to vote for? I am not just saying "Ok, lolz that guy is gone." I am saying tell me why and I will consider it, hopefully getting many different people giving me different reasons for different people to mull over. This stupid bandwaggoning helps no one and telling people to give a reason in public only makes them a target if they are right about someone.

[White_eyes:D]

We do have quite a few people left....I admit Capo is quite a big game....dwarfs anything I played before:beam:

Beefy, you almost were Vig-killed in the second one..and Sasaki always seems to jump to the Mafia's side....those are the only things that I can remember reading...:bounce:

Can someone explain why the Mafia's side is so tempting on here? (does it tie into killing people?:clown:) or do people just like power?:juggle2:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

We do have quite a few people left....I admit Capo is quite a big game....dwarfs anything I played before:beam:

Beefy, you almost were Vig-killed in the second one..and Sasaki always seems to jump to the Mafia's side....those are the only things that I can remember reading...:bounce:

Can someone explain why the Mafia's side is so tempting on here? (does it tie into killing people?:clown:) or do people just like power?:juggle2:

I was going to be townie but then Seamus insulted the pentangelini's in the prologue and I figured I'd show him how awesome we really are by getting the gang back together.

That went well... :skull:

[Askthepizzaguy]

Can someone explain why the Mafia's side is so tempting on here? (does it tie into killing people?:clown:) or do people just like power?:juggle2:

One would imagine it has to do with having more control over your own fate. Being a basic townie or a wiseguy means that you have no trusted connections and not a whole lot of abilities with which to protect yourself. You are lost and confused, and at the mercy of detectives to have a good possibility of lynching your sworn enemies. Detectives which of course, may be scumbags posing as such.

Being a mafia means knowing who your trusted allies are, and being able to cooperate and undermine clueless people. It means if someone is a threat to you, you don't have to try to convince a swarm of skeptical people to lynch them, you can just take a gun and do it yourself.

Don't underestimate the tedium factor. If I went 10 or 20 games without being a mafia, it would get a little boring. I believe Yaropolk's main reason why he wanted to be mafia this game was, according to the PM FactionHeir quoted, was because being a townie was boring.

*awkward pause*


But being a townie is good too. Where's the danged halo smiley?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Finally.


Okay, Crazed Rabbit wanted something more than a gut feeling, and I was waiting on actual data to give him something. My results confirm what I suspected.


A man in a large trenchcoat and a rather out of place cap, of a type rarely seen in sophisticated circles such as these, steps forward from the crowd. "My name is Arach Dhaugazvili," at this point many eyebrows were raised as the man spoke with a broad Yankee accent, yet Arach appeared not to notice, "and I think we need strong leadership at a time like this. The man we call General Hankerchief can provide that." He took up the ballot that was offered to him from a rather perplexed policeman and scrawled two words on it:

Select: GeneralHankerchief

-----

Don't expect me to RP everything...

CountArach opens with a Russian name.


Ugh, I hate Georgians. What are you, Stalin's nephew?

Yaropolk replies with Stalin's name. Georgia was also part of the Soviet Union.


With this accent? Nah, course not.

CountArach replies to the name, none of this has anything to do with what is going on in-thread. This is not about roleplaying. This is about recruitment.


Nope, no investigating from me.

-snip-

Well I find the reference to the Mosin Nagant to be more Russian - as that is what they are more known for. So perhaps someone is trying to frame a Russian player (Do we have any?) or myself maybe? I did after all post with a vaguely Russian last name... or Eastern European at the very least in an earlier post when RPing.

FoS: Everyone who is abstaining - it gets us nowhere.

Vote: Caius for this post (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2311166&postcount=227)... if RR was/is your suspect, why not vote for him? Further, what are you basing this on?

I still have 70 posts to read through, and will post anything more after that if I feel that any of it strikes me as strange.

This post references the Russian weapon from the write-up, and CountArach again re-iterates he's got a Russian name, but maybe it's not all Russian, it's really Eastern European.


Unvote: Caius
Vote: Sasaki

I think that now would be the perfect time to reveal some information I have from and about this potentially dangerous player. I am only revealing it now after some thinking about how it will affect people's trust in me in future games, but this is Capo so :daisy: it...

Two days ago Sasaki sent me the following PM (titled pentangalini):

He apparently sent the same thing to scottishranger, who I suggest gets killed tonight, or at least lynched tomorrow.

No one here has a reason to trust me, but on the other hand this is far more compelling evidence than has been posted in the thread anywhere else. If we can't kill a known Mafia member, we should at least kill a traitorous townie.

Someone please protect me tonight...

CountArach has been requesting protection every night, because he's the Russian killer. He's been looking for allies since the beginning of the game, possibly tapping people who may have sympathies with his cause. Oh, but there's more, much more. He attempts to bring down Sasaki in order to give an excuse as to why he needs protection in the first place. He posts conversations between Sasaki and scottishranger, who both know that CountArach is lying about the entire affair.


Yaropolk was walking, warily, toward his apartment block, his hat pulled low against the faint sleet in the air. Every few minutes he would turn to look behind him, spotting nothing more threatening than a fellow carrying a loaded shopping bag in one hand and an umbrella in the other. He was making sure that he would not be taken by surprise.
When the trench-coated man in the balaclava stepped from behind the building at the corner, Yaro had his gun out of his pocket and into his hand before the hooded stranger could do more than begin to get his clear of his pocket.

“You’ve got 2 seconds to start running or I’ll drop you where you stand,” said Yaropolk.
“Now make like Jesse Owens…Ouch!”

The abrupt change in Yaro’s tone was the result of the umbrella-wielding shopper bumping into him from behind, muttering profuse apologies as he grabbed a few dropped apples and re-packed his bag. During the silliness, the masked stranger had done as suggested and vacated the scene.

Yaropolk made it home safely after that, had a good scotch and went to sleep – just not feeling right. He would never wake up. A good autopsy would have revealed the poisoned pellet pushed under the skin behind his right knee from the tip of the umbrella as the two men had collided, and would have noted the traces of anesthetic that deadened the wound site a bit. Fatlington’s coroner wasn’t up to the task. Yaropolk’s cause of death was listed as Influenza.

CountArach has been affiliated with Yaropolk ever since the initial conversation. Yaropolk is the other Russian killer, as indicated by the gun that he had. I believe they were attempting to form a mafia group together, but they could not start off as allies, they had to locate one another. Look at all the conversations about Russia, the name dropping which has nothing to do with Fatlington, but rather imperial Russia.

None of this sounds pro-town to me.


Last night I sent in orders to protect ATPG with DIY and splitpersonality. Results came back inconclusive. Maybe one of DIY or Split didn't send in orders. What do you have to say for yourselves?

Yaropolk's protection group fails, and he blames the others, but lets the matter entirely drop. He's obviously not concerned with the matter.


The Nagant was designed by a french firearms company of the same name and became standard issue in imperial Russia. Combined with the L'Etranger reference, I think Stranger's killer is posing as a Frenchman.

Yaropolk also mentions imperial Russia and suggests TheStranger's killer was posing as a Frenchman, which he knows is a lie. He's also one of the few people who honed in on the Stranger's death and what weapon was used. This is because he did the write-up. He knows who killed The Stranger.

Very few other people commented on the matter. The entire thing was an attempt to gain recruits for CountArach's organization.


Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosin-Nagant) disagrees with you. It appears to be almost an entirely Russian/Soviet weapon, with Nagant having little to do with the actual production. In any case, it says that Nagant was Belgian, not French.
TinCow corrects his false conclusion.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2311605&postcount=341

Later on, FactionHeir points out Yaropolk's scummy communication with him, trying to coerce him to let him in on a different family, because Yaro knew that FactionHeir was scum. But what Yaropolk was doing wasn't attempting to get in, it was attempting to verify that FactionHeir was working with the Stracchi family so that they could have a contact with another family, and possibly work together to take down the other families while CountArach recruited more killers.

Finally, Sasaki Kojiro was already investigated and revealed to be basic townie, according to my sources. Even if he were trying to take part in vigilante groups, he is a long ways off from being a wiseguy. I believe that it is entirely true that CountArach tried to bring Sasaki down, along with Scottishranger, because of the very fact that CountArach would not participate in Sasaki's group, whether for good or for ill, and couldn't explain his reasons for not wanting to join up.

CountArach has intimate ties with Yaropolk, as demonstrated by their seeking one another out, and both of them had their hands in all kinds of cookie jars. Yaropolk was a killer with a gun, and he wasn't a policeman or a vigilante, either. He was clearly paranoid and aggressive, not at all what you'd expect from a townie. His attempts to coerce a mafia family and his further insistence that he can help penetrate a townie circle are just one bit of testimony against him, and he definitely wasn't protecting anyone on Night One.

CountArach has been attempting to get protections on him, he's admitted his role is not your basic townie (anyone else have a fancy name like his?) or he's just making stuff up out of whole cloth, which is just more lies.

I initially thought that CountArach might have had a pro-town role, but nothing so far indicates that he does have one. His insistence that Sasaki must die and his attempts to take Sasaki down are simply attempts to waste a lynch round. Also note the sudden retaliation against Beskar last round when he casually voted for CountArach; there was an immediate backlash. What's going on?

The Night one kill on TheStranger was written to indicate that CountArach had found the body of TheStranger first and nearly lost his lunch, but that was all part of the 4-part note, except the first part was in italics. This kill on the Stranger was the one with the Nagant.

All coincidences? I think not. There's an obvious backstory here which has nothing to do with CountArach doing kind things for the town. And most of this backstory was written by CountArach himself, and the people he's been associating with. Most telling was the fact that his contact, Yaropolk, had a gun.

Too long, didn't read?

I strongly insist that CountArach is your man. He's the Russian killer.

Vote for CountArach.

[Beskar]

Unvote: Vote: Count Arach

I saw what pizza said, my Count "Anarch" was a pun on his name in regards to communist-esque.

[White_eyes:D]

But in my mind...you want the side that wins:2thumbsup:

I admit being Mafia is a "jolly good time"...but people get a good read on you by that...I mean look at how many times I guessed right about wither Reenk was mafia or not...:laugh4:

In the end, in this game there is no clear way to eliminate scum...since at any night phase anyone can switch sides or at any moment like Sasaki's one above....the beauty of Capo:clown:

[Splitpersonality]

Holy :daisy: ATPG.

[White_eyes:D]

I can't believe I read all of that Pizzaguy:whip:
so, I well put it into easy to understand format:2thumbsup:

1.Count Arch and Yaropolk are likely scum and working together:juggle2:

2.That's what the initial joke posts were all about...them finding each other and recruiting...:inquisitive:

3.Count Arch and Yaropolk were working together since then, mostly talking about Russia:smash:

4.Yaropolk's Protection group failed but he let the matter drop in the MOUNTAIN of posts and tried blaming others:whip:

I missed some but I like this more then Reenk's case...(Sorry Reenk:shame:) Vote:Count Arch

[White_eyes:D]

Unvote:Ironside Vote:CountArch I forgot to unvote...:juggle2:

[a completely inoffensive name]

What I got from that is that Russians used a Belgian gun to defeat the fascists.

[TinCow]

That is a very interesting analysis ATPG. It strikes me as the actions of a group who start out not knowing each other but whose roles told them to look out for certain kinds of conduct in the thread to get in touch with one another. Seamus did this in Capo II with the Crusaders. The Crusaders were pro-town, which means that such a group isn't necessarily bad, but under the circumstances it does warrant further attention.

Unvote; Vote: CountArach

Let's ramp up the pressure and get some answers.

[Craterus]

Regarding the pevergreen affair, I'm not sure what you'd rather the town did. Devoting all efforts to protection groups means the town must anticipate mafia hits in order to achieve promotions. Inconclusive protections don't contribute to these promotions, as far as I am aware. It makes sense to me that hit&protections should be conducted to accelerate the rate of promotion to these power roles. Admittedly, this one failed and promotions went to the more dangerous side. However, that fault lies with the organisers, not the executees; the votes on woad&fangs are a little harsh.

With better communication and organisation, townie night actions can actually be directed so they mean something.

Select:Craterus

And, for now, I like Watson ATPG's case against CountArach. I'll be back to review and change this vote but I think he's got this worked out so: vote: Count Arach.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Hahahahahaha!

Die traitor!!

Unvote:Andres, Vote:CountArach

[El Diablo]

That is better than someone who wants to be mafia
Good work Pizza man!

Unvote Sasaki Vote CountArach

[Askthepizzaguy]

I am making this public, because I don't have anything to hide and I will die soon.

I was responsible for taking down Yaropolk. As such, my results will now read "criminal". I don't care who knows this, town can eliminate me at their convenience.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Success/Failure notices and investigation results have been sent.

[Diana Abnoba]

Yes finally, Vote: CountArach go down traitor, and look out, all other that followed him. :smash:

[a completely inoffensive name]

I want my vote to be counted on time this round so I guess I will just Vote: CountArach right now.

[Myrddraal]

Firstly massive FOS on those bandwagonning Sasaki. The accusation is that he wanted to start a mafia gang. Fair enough, but we have a group of people who are confirmed guilty (wiseguys or townies who have ever participated in a killing)! The bandwagon on Sasaki is inexcusable.


About ATPG case on CountArach. Hmm. I'm not convinced. ATPG certainly gives a lot of evidence, but none of it is particularly strong. It looks like the sort of thing where you might have ended up looking for evidence to justify a hunch. Yaro having a gun is particularly weak; everyone in Capo has the power to kill.

Does CA have a role? Yes, I think so. Is he Mafia? No, I don't think so? Is he Pro-Town? Who knows.

Not really the best lynch imo.


Now for my own hunch. ACIN and AVSM. I've just gone over and re-read all their posts in this thread. Here is a summary of ACIN's posting:

1 Post to select AVSM
3 Posts asking for private messages rather than open discussion
5 Posts which seem overly defensive / paranoid, some of which show camaraderie with AVSM
8 Posts which have no substance

Note the complete lack of contribution to reasonable arguments and the paranoia after being fingered.

AVSM's posting:

1 Post to select himself
1 Post which seems overly defensive / paranoid, contains a retaliation vote and shows camaraderie with ACIN
1 Post to attack Double A (who voted for him)
2 Posts which have no substance

All this just reeks of scum to me. If you're not scum, you're certainly being counter-productive... FOS ACIN & AVSM


But my vote must eventually go to another, in part because they have a kill to their name, and in part to prevent the shameless bandwagon on Sasaki.

Vote: Woad&Fangs


PS. Townies, make the effort to read ATPG's argument and decide for yourselves if CA is a better vote than a confirmed guilty.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Myrddraal,

I have received a report that states that AVSM and Moros both came up as criminal. I believe your FOS on AVSM is justified. I want to double check and confirm it, because this is not firsthand info.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Well you are wrong because I now have 9 posts with no substance! SUCK IT!

edit: Also I stated why I would like private messages, I don't want informants to be targeted from speaking in public and I refuse to go along with idiotic bandwaggoning because one person has a gut feeling.

[Myrddraal]

Well you are wrong because I now have 9 posts with no substance! SUCK IT!
:laugh4: Well I've got to admit, you got me there! :laugh4:
Seriously though... FOS

[LittleGrizzly]

Oops...

Unvote dead guy

Im not sure about this bandwagon on CA... It sprung up quickly... also I don't agree with the bandwagon on sasaki he's a suspect but theres better lynches..

Vote Woad&Fangs

For his participation in the kill...

[a completely inoffensive name]

:laugh4: Well I've got to admit, you got me there! :laugh4:
Seriously though... FOS

Seriously though, if you want to know the truth between me and AVSM it's that ever since this game started he has not wanted to talk to me, even after I voted for him because we are Tavern buddies. This would actually be a good moment to address him directly.

@AVSM
You hurt my feelings AVSM! The Tavern has been much lonier since you stopped talking to me, and now AP has been gone for a while, who the :daisy: do I have left to talk to, an Australian and Meth? I want no less then a public apology from you!

Language!! - Sigurd

[Tratorix]

Well, that certainly was a very... long analysis. Vote: CountArach. That case just makes too much sense for me to ignore.

[Double A]

Vote:CountArch because I read ATPG's entire post on that... :dizzy2:


I am making this public, because I don't have anything to hide and I will die soon.

I was responsible for taking down Yaropolk. As such, my results will now read "criminal". I don't care who knows this, town can eliminate me at their convenience.

Where would a townie get a poisoned pellet and that sweet umbrella unless you're a doctor?

[White_eyes:D]

Where would a townie get a poisoned pellet and that sweet umbrella unless you're a doctor?

Was that ability a One-time use ATPG??:juggle2:

[Myrddraal]

I have received a report that states that AVSM and Moros both came up as criminal. I believe your FOS on AVSM is justified. I want to double check and confirm it, because this is not firsthand info.

Well that's enough to satisfy me.
Unvote, Vote: AVSM

[Jolt]

Personally I think that it was patently obvious that Seamus would rejig the roles in order to mask this, but...

Ugh, obvious? I don't think so. In any case, we shall see that soon enough.


In response, Factionheir claimed that he had been contacted by Yaropolk and Jolt who believed that he was mafia. Yaropolk claimed to want to switch sides, and Jolt claimed to have information for him on a pro-town role to be taken out. Yaropolk is now dead.

I am not since I am being protected. And I revealed that as much to FactionHeir, in case he or his family were scheming on attempting something on me.


It was only after this accusation that Jolt attempted to get Factionheir lynched,

Wrong, I had already laid my vote on him before he even began trying to explain anything or incriminating anybody whatsoever. So point 1 is moot.


what claiming that he was 'fishing for information'. While this is a plausible idea, ATPG rightly pointed out that he had plenty of oppurtunity to accuse him prior to Factionheir accusing him. The bandwagon was already rolling and Jolt could have produced said damning evidence before Factionheir accused him.

As I said, I didn't have time. By time, I mean the time to elaborately showing what I tried to do along explaining it. Point 2 is moot.


Perhaps he didn't because he was mafia or mafia-affiliated and wanted to see if FactionHeir would take him up on his nefarious offer.

It would be incredibly stupid to associate yourself with a Mafioso you have blackmailed and was about to be lynched, especially provided that you followed up on your blackmail and had indeed used my vote on him. Point 3 is moot.


Add to this what I said in thread 15 minutes ago. Its hardly damning but it is a valid case. Personally I don't think that admitting a case is full of holes is a good way to start a bandwagon. My intention is merely to draw attention to the fact that we have no satisfactory answers from you, Jolt, and to keep your slip up in memory while we go and chase other 'targets', who may or may not be more deserving of our attention.

This was my modus operandi in this case. I myself was quite unsure whether or not to start a bandwagon against him, since as you well said, there was no clear case against him. Thus why I elaborated the plot to try to get him to confess, so I could present it as a clear case and no question marks would arise as you have had (Though quite honestly, in a game full of Mafiosi, makes me wonder what is the purpose behind your question marks).

If people still don't believe, then by all means investigate me. If you still think trying to get a Mafioso through that method was harmful for town, then lynch me.

[Jolt]

Well done ATPG, nicely seen through the inlines. Unvote, Vote: CountArach

[Kommodus]

Vote: GeneralHankerchief

I'll read the case against CountArach as soon as I can, but want to get this out there. GH is guilty and should be lynched as soon as possible.

I'm a townie and I've organized protection groups both nights. On N1 I sent out invitations to a number of players (not a huge number) in which, in addition to inviting them to join a group, I asked whether they thought it was better to include 3 or 4 players. I pointed out that, while a 4-player group is more reliable, it is also easier for a mafioso to hide in. A 3-player group has a greater chance of failure, but the failure can be informative concerning the true actions of the members.

GH was the only responding player to suggest a 4-player group on the first night. Now I want to say that this would make sense if we had a high-profile pro-town role to protect, but in the first few rounds it's probably better to use 3, since mafia infiltation is such a high risk.

My first protection group consisted of GH, Kagemusha and me. We protected The Stranger on GH's and my recommendation. All of us sent in our orders on time and CC'd each other. However, TS was killed regardless with nary a mention of any efforts to protect him. My N1 results from Seamus were as follows:


Protection effort failed; orders not coordinated

Clearly, one of us had not followed through with the agreed-upon plan.

I was already suspicious of GH for suggesting four players for our group, so I confronted him with my suspicions. He gave what I thought was a solid answer in the following exchange:






Just got the results from Seamus. His response indicates one of us is to blame. :stare:

This entire thing makes absolutely no sense. If we were mafia, why would any of us risk exposure like this on the very first day?

Well GH, maybe it's you. To me, the pieces seem to fit. You get invited into a protection group on the first day - how do you respond? You accept but suggest a four-player group, knowing that such a group is easier to hide in an a three-player group. (None of my other respondees suggested a four-player group this early in the game; others either had no opinion or thought three would be better until it became easier to predict attack victims.) It would've made a great alibi - but then you couldn't have known that TS would actually be attacked, since he was done in by an independent serial killer and not by any mafia family.

Do you have an answer before I make my suspicions public? :smash:

No, I didn't know that TS was going to be attacked. But I had a very good idea, for the reasons that I stated to you when I suggested that he be protected last night. Reasons that you agreed with and had others to add on to. It doesn't matter whether or not the mafia or an SK attacked him. An attack is an attack. And with at least six, probably seven clear "villainous" factions, probably not to mention a wiseguy group that's trying to do something, I knew the potential for SOMEONE going after him would be high.

I've grown pretty confident in my abilities to predict what's going to happen. For instance, I'm fairly certain that [CENSORED] is going to be attacked within the next couple of nights, because he fits the bill of an easy target. As did TS of being a N1 target. If I were mafia, I wouldn't risk my identity on suggesting a highly probable target and then agreeing to protect him with only three people (which I did, the "four" thing at the beginning was dropped I think after our first exchange).

K, it's not me.

So I held my peace and waited one night. But I was still highly suspicious of GH, for two reasons:

1. I knew all of us had sent in our orders correctly, so the only possibility was that either GH or Kage had changed their orders afterwards. Kage's behavior seemed more innocent to me.

2. The statement by GH in the above exchange: "This entire thing makes absolutely no sense. If we were mafia, why would any of us risk exposure like this on the very first day?" If GH were truly innocent, he should've been confidently pointing the finger at me and/or Kage. But instead he was on the defensive.

Now, having waited a night, I have very good information confirming GH's guilt. Unfortunately I can't reveal the details, but I am very confident. Friends, it is time to end this menace to our fair city. :bow:

[Tratorix]

Unvote: CountArach, Vote: GH I trust a mafia hunter's case more than a pizzaguy's. :shrug:

[a completely inoffensive name]

Ahhh, now there two tl;dr posts each telling me to vote for different people! :dizzy2:

[Splitpersonality]

Unvote:Sasaki


Vote:GH

Not to bandwaggon (I'm totally the third one aren't I?), but this seems good right now, if he has evidence I'd still like to see it however.

[Chaotix]

By solid evidence, are we talking an investigation result, here?

Otherwise, your word is only as good as his, and Kage could be the guilty one, too.

[Tratorix]

Ahhh, now there two tl;dr posts each telling me to vote for different people! :dizzy2:

Welcome to mafia. Just wait GH and CA come along and have to rebut these accusations. :laugh4:

[a completely inoffensive name]

Welcome to mafia. Just wait GH and CA come along and have to rebut these accusations. :laugh4:

And people wonder why my posts have no substance...it's obviously to break up the walls of text in this thread.

[Kommodus]

Ok, I've now read the case against CountArach. It has some merit; perhaps he's guilty after all. But it has a serious flaw as well: over-reliance on evidence from the writeups. ATPG, with all due respect, here in Fatlington possession of a gun is not proof of mafia affiliation. It's not uncommon to be packing heat in self-defense, even for normal townies.

Also, CountArach's efforts to get Sasaki lynched are less scummy than you seem to think. Sasaki may not be much of a threat yet, but don't underestimate him. His basic nature prevents him from siding with the town in a Capo game; he practically must aim to become the Capo di Tutti Capi himself. No other outcome will satisfy him. I'm not saying lynch him yet - we have better, more dangerous candidates - but don't let him off the hook either.


By solid evidence, are we talking an investigation result, here?

Otherwise, your word is only as good as his, and Kage could be the guilty one, too.

I already said I can't reveal details. Asking isn't going to change that. I'm sorry, truly I am.

Without defending CountArach, I will say that I am more confident of GeneralHankerchief's guilt. I advise you all to switch your votes to him.

Also, Select: Reenk Roink

[TinCow]

I can confirm a good deal of what Kommodus says. I was a third (fourth?) wheel on his first night protection groups, which is why I ended up being spun off on my own. I knew that he and GH were due to protect TS. It was pretty clear that one of them was lying about the group after TS died. After extensive conversations with both Kommodus and Kage, they both seem legit to me. GH's responses were far less convincing:








Sorry... I need to shuffle the groups around a bit. I am protecting TS with GH and another player tonight.

Given that TS died without any sign of protection, I expect an explanation from the two of you.

I have no idea what the :daisy: that was all about. I'm pretty certain Stranger got whacked by a serial killer, but naturally that doesn't explain everything. I need to check the Capo II roles to see if any of Seamus's SKs in that game were overpowered like that.

Language!! - Sigurd


Delayed response on this, I know, but any chance you'd be willing to share your results PM from N1?

Basically, it implicated one of us. Since we all CC'd the orders to each other on time, unintentional sabotage is out. Private conversations have not been pretty.

If you don't mind sharing, who is your prime suspect?

I'm going to keep that on the down-low for now. I'm getting a contact to look into it further.

GH

GH immediately went for the 'SK was able to blow through a protection' argument, which is not very believable. The first thought anyone would have would be that one of your partners was lying. GH did not react like that. Top it off with GH claiming to have a "contact," and I'd put my money on him being a Made/Luca.

Unvote; Vote: GeneralHankerchief

Too many scum, too few lynches. :thumbsdown:

[Askthepizzaguy]

Ok, I've now read the case against CountArach. It has some merit; perhaps he's guilty after all. But it has a serious flaw as well: over-reliance on evidence from the writeups. ATPG, with all due respect, here in Fatlington possession of a gun is not proof of mafia affiliation. It's not uncommon to be packing heat in self-defense, even for normal townies.

Yeah, much of that case was written before Seamus got back with the night results. I am afraid I had to rely on in-thread information instead of a result. And I wasn't sure I should post it at all unless I had the goods.

When I got the goods, I had it already ready to post, and briefly mentioned it before the in-thread clues in spoilers.

[atheotes]

Too many scum, too few lynches. :thumbsdown:

that is exactly the thought that crossed my mind :yes:

I have read through ATPG's theory - as a few people have pointed out, the gun theory sticks out a bit... Death is Yonder also had a gun.

I read Kommodus's case against and Tincow's supporting information...that is a much stronger case.

Vote: GH

I am looking forward to the rebuttals from GH and CA...

Select: Reenk

[A Very Super Market]

Yes, I'm a criminal.

[Double A]

HA! HE ADMITS IT!

[Diana Abnoba]

@ AVSM

Are you working with Moros?

[A Very Super Market]

Who's that?

[DJGingivitis]

Yes, I'm a criminal.

A smooth criminal?

[Diana Abnoba]

A smooth criminal?

I agree

[Diana Abnoba]

Who's that?

The other player that in thread was exposed as a criminal as well.

[Reenk Roink]

Screw what Kommodus says, lynch GH because he keeps trying to usurp my position. :snobby:

[Tratorix]

Screw what Kommodus says, lynch GH because he keeps trying to usurp my position. :snobby:

I trust you'll have a special surprise for him if we do? Oh and Select: Reenk.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Still waiting for your apology for hurting my feelings AVSM!

[Chaotix]

Sounds good enough to me. GH is probably mafia, while Sasaki is merely not mafia yet.

Unvote, Vote: GH

[A Very Super Market]

Thorry?

[a completely inoffensive name]

Thorry?

That does not compute under Dictionary.com.

[ricera10]

What does FoS (fossing?) mean? Google kept on trying to think it was "flossing", and I'm pretty sure you don't floss the teeth of people you are suspicious of.

...

On-topic, ATPG and Kommodus both make good points, but I think Kommodus substantiates his better. There's still too much doubt for me to vote, however.

:book:

I mean, GH could be a townie, but could just mistakenly be adding suspicion onto himself through his wording. But then again, I'm sure he has played many mafia games, so I doubt he would do something that would inadvertently add suspicion to himself. And even if he did that mistake, he would have made sure The_Stranger would have been protected in the first place, and that includes not making a mistake in sending the protection PM. As Kommodus said, it makes all of them suspicious, but I agree with Kommodus in his belief that GH's responses in the posted PM are the most suspicious. :thumbsdown:

In conclusion, this isn't an official "beyond reasonable doubt" belief, but I believe Kommodus makes a more concrete case about GH than ATPG about CountArach (CountArach is still rightly not absolved of suspicion), so...

Vote: GH

At least until something new presents itself; this needing to lynch anyone remotely suspect thing chafes me, but it's part of the game. :sick:

[Kommodus]

Question: If we create a tie vote, can the Director choose to lynch both players?

I've been talking to ATPG and he seems to have a pretty strong case for lynching CountArach... but I'd still like to see GeneralH lynched as well, as there is a lot of objective evidence against him. Lynching both would be my choice.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

HOS:ricera

How can you be that sure GH is guilty?

[Lord Winter]

@Pizza Your CA case relies on too many logical jumps and assumption to be considered as a lynch. First of all how would Yarpolk know about the coded language from the start? Codes are only useful if they are pre planed and if they were there would be no point using them as recruitment. Furthermore there's no actual evidence that they actual exist. When your whole case basically comes down to CA making a rp post which Yaropolk happens to make an anti stalin comment off of. Is that scummy? Furthermore why would CA want to tie himself to a mafia kill it would be suicide in the end game when everyone's scouring the thread for info. Also, why would Yaropolk contact factionheir if he was already tied into CA's familly? It's another unnecessary risk and we all know that mafiosos hate that. Overall the case has to many holes in it to be taken seriously when we have to sabotaged protection attempts to also look at.

First of all we shouldn't be looking at the killing group in the pever affair. There's no way a mafia family can sabotage that, thus all the woads and fangs votes are for nothing. What they can sabotage are the protection groups. We have too which apparently seem liked they failed. We should be looking at Andres, Beefy and Shiln as well as Kage, kommodus and GH.

I'd like to here GH's defense before I vote though.

@ricera FoS is finger of suspicion, it's used as a way to say someone is scummy without actually voting for them.

[Gaius Scribonius Curio]

FOS: Finger of Suspicion

@ Jolt: You make a good case, Unvote: Jolt

With regards to the Count Arach case, I did read through it, but where is the evidence that he is definitely anti-town...

Kommodus' work on GH seems more solid at this stage. That The Stranger died, and was supposedly protected is patently obvious. That GH wanted to have larger groups is well-attested. These occurences would seem to be linked so...

Vote: General Hankerchief

[ricera10]

HOS:ricera

How can you be that sure GH is guilty?
Because I'm not? If you re-read my post, the word sure isn't in there anywhere. I made it pretty clear I'm only voting because that's the best I believe I can go on at this point. As I said, I'd welcome any new evidence; my mind isn't made up.

And you didn't respond to my first question about FoS, either. Instead you put in a new acronym...

I'm not really inclined to believe your post was very serious as a result. :7reporter:

[Askthepizzaguy]

@Pizza Your CA case relies on too many logical jumps and assumption to be considered as a lynch.

Fair enough, but that was just the in-thread behavior that I could point out to everyone. I mentioned (perhaps too briefly) that I was waiting on an actual result I could give you. I didn't think anyone would even listen to me if I just flat out claimed I had a result, I wanted to show you that there was something more to my case than just basically trusting my results.

I've argued for CountArach to take priority over the General here, but I believe I am being overruled on that point. That's fine, CountArach isn't going anywhere, I'm just saying I know what he's been up to and I know it's not townie stuff.

Kommodus pointed out a possible compromise, letting the Director decide. I am fine with that.

[Tratorix]

Director of the Committee of Vigilance:

On the first day phase, and then on each odd numbered day phase thereafter, the town elects the person who will direct the lynching effort. That person shall be director for the next two lynchings following their selection. [e.g. Elected Day 1, Director Day 2, Director Day 3, Elected Day 3, Director Day 4 & 5, etc.] That person will choose the lynching mode, carry out the lynching, and, in the event of a tie vote, the director will decide who among those tied for the most votes will be executed. The director can execute none, one, more, or all of those tied votees at the Director’s discretion. The Director is provided with a special goon squad to aid in the executions, and this squad also makes it impossible to kill the Director while they are in office. While directing the lynchings, the individual in question may not vote for anyone to be lynched, though they may help select the next director.


Important part bolded. I say if CA or GH can't come up with a decent response to these accusations, we have our esteemed Director hang em both.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

@Pizza Your CA case relies on too many logical jumps and assumption to be considered as a lynch. First of all how would Yarpolk know about the coded language from the start? Codes are only useful if they are pre planed and if they were there would be no point using them as recruitment. Furthermore there's no actual evidence that they actual exist. When your whole case basically comes down to CA making a rp post which Yaropolk happens to make an anti stalin comment off of. Is that scummy?


Last couple games have had clues to be left in the thread so that people could unite, and I think capo 2 did as well.

I'd still like an answer from woad&fangs as to why he wanted CountArach protected.

[Askthepizzaguy]

@Tratorix:

Hear, hear! I trust Reenk Roink's judgment on this matter.



-personal note, I need to go offline for a while, this game is sucking me in and I need a real rest, seriously.-

[Splitpersonality]

We elected him, we should trust in his judgement then. It's not just about funny writeups, reenk is our noble leader!

[pevergreen]

HOS:ricera

How can you be that sure GH is guilty?

Sasaki is right.

ToS: ricera

[glyphz]

Something's really amiss here...
:idea3:

A tally, I mean.:yes:


Tally: (unofficial)
Votes
CountArach: 10 - Askthepizzaguy, Beskar, White_eyes:D, Craterus, Sasaki Kojiro, El Diablo, Diana Abnoba, a completely inoffensive name, Double A, Jolt

GeneralHankerchief: 8 - Kommodus, Tratorix, spL1tp3r50naL1ty, TinCow, atheotes, Chaotix, ricera10, Gaius Scribonius Curio

woad&fangs: 4 - Shinseikhaan, scottishranger, Sigurd, LittleGrizzly

Sasaki Kojiro: 3 - GeneralHankerchief, gibsonsg91921, slashandburn

shlin28: 2 - Andres, Crazed Rabbit

A Very Super Market - Myrddraal

Select
Reenk Roink - IIIII IIiII IIIII IIII

GeneralHankerchief - iI

Kommodus - i
(will finish later...)
Finally... Now to concentrate on who to vote/select... (Perhaps working on a double-lynch does sound like a good idea. )
Time to reread, first:study: unless sleep takes me

[Askthepizzaguy]

*wakes up*

I believe you have GH voting for GH....

*back to sleep*

[Lord Winter]

Vote: Beefy
'
The Case:

First of all lets remember Beefy survived a hit day one. Since we don't have a protection group claiming responsibility that means either his Luca stepped in or he was lucky. I'm guessing the Luca when you add in a few other pieces of information. Most importantly Beefy was part of the town protection group which failed to protect Pever. As I outlined in my other post we can probably assume that the problem with the protection group is in the defenders as opposed to any sabotage on the side of the organized vig group. Out of the three in the pever protection group only beefy is the only one with past suspicious behavior. His in thread behavior is textbook attention avoidance, adding nothing. He even abstained yesterday. In fact his behavior reminds me of GF3 and we all know what role he had then. All three of these factors together mean we have a good chance of getting a don.

[DJGingivitis]

You are confusing selections and votes me thinks.
Was talking to glyphz

[seireikhaan]

You are confusing selections and votes me thinks.


Haha alright, I have been working on getting something concrete. There is something I have found out that I plan on revealing to everyone later tonight (Approx 2200-2400 CST) after I hear back from some people.
What happened to this, DJG?

[A Very Super Market]

Select: Reenk

Vote: Abstain

[DJGingivitis]

It turned to moot actually and with everything happening I figured I would concentrate on that. But I had suspicions regarding some protection group N1 and why they did not show up in the write up. That is all. After I dug deeper I figured out my mistake.

[Lord Winter]

Select: Reenk

[woad&fangs]

Select: Reenk Roink

too tired to make coherent accusations....will post again in morning....

[Askthepizzaguy]

one more thing: still need one or two volunteers for pt groups as we lost some people. Please and thank you.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Select: Reenk

[naut]

Select: Reenk Roink

Who else but the Reenkster.

Vote: GH

ATPG, I like your case against CA. It does make a decent amount of sense. BUT, Kommo's feels.. more complete.

[Sigurd]

Taking into account that Reenk approached me on behalf of TheStranger asking if I wanted to participate in a vig group, offer which I rejected for not knowing whether TheStranger was Mafia or not, renders your "reveal" as me wanting to become Mafia quite the fail.
Do you now deny that you contacted FactionHeir and wrote what he quoted in this (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2311605&postcount=341)?
You knew a pro-town role and wanted to make a deal with who you believed was an original member of Stracchi? You are at least a name on the most wanted list for this.

[a completely inoffensive name]

I suggest a three way tie between GH, Jolt and CA and just get rid of them all.

EDIT: This might be my first serious post.

[Andres]

Louis would not have mis-spelled 'L'Etranger'. It needed an accent aigu: 'L'Étranger'. :whip:


It's "l'Etranger" with a capital "E", the accent aigu is not needed :brood:

- étranger
- Etranger


I was going to be townie but then Seamus insulted the pentangelini's in the prologue and I figured I'd show him how awesome we really are by getting the gang back together.

That went well... :skull:

:laugh4:

Select : Reenk
Unvote; Vote : GH

[ULC]

Vote: GH

This goes beyond for me more then Kommodus's case, and I hope we may tie it and be rid of both GH and CA. As is obvious, each day we gain more and more new information and new suspects, it is not good that they build a queue, as it strangles the committees efforts.

[Death is yonder]

:furious3::furious3::furious3:

Now now Mr Mafia, why did you kill me! My exams are ending soon and I would have had all this lovely time to browse through Capo II 2 hours a day no longer... :cry:

:furious3::furious3::furious3:

My only comfort is that now the mafia will pay :laugh4:

[The Stranger]

omg... i was protected? dang that fool that failed to send in...

those cc'd pms are obviously a waste of time...

and I believe either pizza or reenk are playing all of us...

[pevergreen]

Yeah, cause Reenk is organising hits on players...

[Twilightblade]

Select: Reenk
bring on the funny

I think my skim reading caused me to miss much more than I thought because while there are cases against both CA and GH they don't seem that solid

[Andres]

About CountArach being scummy, aren't the mafia families supposed to be Italian?

Is a Russian with the ability to kill necessarily scum?

CA needs to explain :whip:

[pevergreen]

Is a Russian with the ability to kill necessarily scum?

'cause a random guy dressed like an ancient greek man isnt cause for concern...

[Beefy187]

Vote: Beefy
'
The Case:

First of all lets remember Beefy survived a hit day one. Since we don't have a protection group claiming responsibility that means either his Luca stepped in or he was lucky. I'm guessing the Luca when you add in a few other pieces of information. Most importantly Beefy was part of the town protection group which failed to protect Pever. As I outlined in my other post we can probably assume that the problem with the protection group is in the defenders as opposed to any sabotage on the side of the organized vig group. Out of the three in the pever protection group only beefy is the only one with past suspicious behavior. His in thread behavior is textbook attention avoidance, adding nothing. He even abstained yesterday. In fact his behavior reminds me of GF3 and we all know what role he had then. All three of these factors together mean we have a good chance of getting a don.

Well, it may be my fault.

I received two results for the last night. The first one was to protect CountArach with two others who I will not name. This was done, because The Stranger gave us no commands.

Then after we received orders from The Stranger, I quickly sent in a different order to protect pever, and pmed the guy in the original protection group to look for somewhere else, as he seemed to have had no group.

As I also received the result for the first protection which was inconclusive as CA wasn't attacked, I am assuming, I missed a step of canceling night actions. If thats not necessary, then its someone else.

Yes I did abstain, but only because I have school. And I figure I better vote when I get back as there is more development.

Vote: GH

[GeneralHankerchief]

Okay, I was waiting for something like this. PLEASE READ THIS POST BEFORE YOU VOTE ME BLINDLY.

First of all, yes, everything Kommodus says is true. Let me concentrate on his two main points of attack: First of all, that my not going after himself or Kage attests to my guilt, and that he has concrete evidence that I am in fact a mafioso.

I assume this is because someone investigated me last night and got a "guilty" result last night. This is because I was killing Yaropolk with ATPG. I'm not sure how exactly it works since we only took him down with two people, maybe some of you have a different red text than me. Maybe ATPG is a Made. But here is his explanation for it:



Your explanation is a bit muddled for my liking in order for me to answer properly. From what you've told me, I'm not sure I see the difference between getting in on a vig hit tonight and acting as a town's hitman of sorts (?) sometime in the future.
From your perspective, there would be no real difference. I would have to double check with the host, but I believe that I would be in effect acting as the other people in your group necessary to form a vigilante kill. I don't believe it would affect your alignment either. I'd just end up being the rest of your team, so to speak. And pardon the muddled explanation, I'm afraid I'm not at full liberty to discuss. :no: Best I can say is that these players are a headache for the entire town and duly deserve to be put to death.

At any point in time you could say that you don't want to do it anymore, and you can walk away, you're not obligated to continue associating with me, and you can take whatever path you like, it is none of my concern. Feel free to ask me questions, just understand my hands are tied when it comes to giving you certain answers.

You can also tell me "no" right here and now, and it wouldn't bother me. I'd just have to keep looking for another skilled player. I'm also a bit too concerned with this important work to bother you about being a wiseguy. Trust me, you are the least of my concerns. I'd appreciate it if you didn't mention this conversation to anyone, as it causes me less headaches, and yourself as well.



Sorry, one more question and then I'll give you my answer.

- Does you not being at liberty to discuss certain things with me come from red text?

Indeed. I couldn't reveal it, even though I want to.

Secondly, I did not out-and-out accuse Kommodus and/or Kage because I didn't want to. What good what that have done? "No, it wasn't me". Case closed. I prefer to work in more subtle ways. I asked a contact of mine to investigate Kage last night. I'm still waiting to hear back. I was working this mystery out in my own private way.

I am not a mafioso. Do not lynch me for using my own methods to sort things out.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I vouch for what GeneralHankerchief said. I approached him for the Yaropolk kill. I brought this up with Kommodus; I believe GH is useful to us.

Only point is that I am not a made. I specifically told GH this wasn't a recruiting mission for any mafia family, but more of an actual vigilante-type pro-town maneuver which relates to my role. I might be able to do things you can't do, if you take my meaning.

The main choices this round are between the other part of the Russian group, or the person who helped take them down, or both. I've done what I can, you must decide, or leave it up to the esteemed Reenkster.

[Andres]

assume this is because someone investigated me last night and got a "guilty" result last night. This is because I was killing Yaropolk with ATPG. I'm not sure how exactly it works since we only took him down with two people, maybe some of you have a different red text than me.

Two and the kill succeeded? At least one of you is a Made and the other one has to be either a Wiseguy or a Luca. Red text is too convenient an excuse.

I'm more suspicious about ATPG, but I think both of you should die.

Unvote : GH; Vote Askthepizzaguy

[Askthepizzaguy]

Two and the kill succeeded? At least one of you is a Made and the other one has to be either a Wiseguy or a Luca.

That's not correct. It doesn't even make sense why GH and I would voluntarily expose ourselves just to take down CountArach if we were both mafia. There are more roles than meet the eye, Andres.

You can believe what you will, but it is not so simple.


Red text is too convenient an excuse.

On the contrary, it's decidedly inconvenient at the moment. It would go a long way to adding to the credibility if I had something to show.

[TinCow]

I assume this is because someone investigated me last night and got a "guilty" result last night. This is because I was killing Yaropolk with ATPG. I'm not sure how exactly it works since we only took him down with two people, maybe some of you have a different red text than me.

Your proof of not being a mafioso is that you killed someone in a group of two? :inquisitive:

[Andres]

That's not correct. It doesn't even make sense why GH and I would voluntarily expose ourselves just to take down CountArach if we were both mafia. There are more roles than meet the eye, Andres.

You can believe what you will, but it is not so simple.

Blahblahblah.

Usually, the most simple explanation is the right one.

Two guys target somebody -> kill succeeds.

Possible explanations:
1) made+wiseguy can kill;
2) made+luca can kill;
3) some red text which can, conveniently, not be quoted, explains it all.

1) or 2) -> GH and/or ATPG are guilty
3) GH and ATPG are innocent.

I'm more inclined to believe the most obvious explanations 1) and 2).

[GeneralHankerchief]

Your proof of not being a mafioso is that you killed someone in a group of two? :inquisitive:

I'm not saying that's proof of my innocence. I don't have any proof of my innocence. All I'm saying is that's an explanation of my guilty result.

[Andres]

I'm not saying that's proof of my innocence. I don't have any proof of my innocence. All I'm saying is that's an explanation of my guilty result.

What's your role?

[TinCow]

I'm not saying that's proof of my innocence. I don't have any proof of my innocence. All I'm saying is that's an explanation of my guilty result.

You've been implying you know someone who can investigate. It's perfectly understandable that you wouldn't give out this person's name, but there's far less harm in discussing this person without giving a name.

1) What kind of investigation role does this person have?
2) How do you know about him/her?

[GeneralHankerchief]

My role is Wiseguy. Given the current mortality rate of my kind, I should probably say "townie" but I am what I am.

As for TC's questions:

1. Detective
2. Grapevine.

[Andres]

GeneralHankerchief:

1) you made a succesful kill with only two persons participating;
2) there's a guilty result on you (apparently? I probably missed it somewhere in this monster thread);
3) you behaved suspicious behind the scenes (Kommodus pm's);

You'll have to come with some very decent explanation to avoid getting lynched :shrug:

Please, what's your role and post your night action results.

EDIT: ok, Wiseguy. No point in asking your role, the Wiseguy role pm has already been posted in thread by FH. Now, posting your night action results shouldn't take longer than 5 minutes.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Already said I was a Wiseguy.

As far as results PMs:


Protection effort failed; orders not coordinated

[explanation from Seamus to Kommodus about why he was late here]

This was N1. Its subject was "N1 results" and sent to myself, Kommo, and Kage.


Sucessful, Yaropolk died. Kill credit as appropriate.

Subject: "n2 murder", sent to myself and ATPG.

For the record, here was our orders PM to Seamus:



Askthepizzaguy and I will be using his "special kill" against Yaropolk.

Whatever this is, ATPG, I hope you know what you're doing... :sweatdrop:

Greetings Seamus,

I've elected to use the kill against Yaropolk, assisted by GeneralHankerchief, countermanding my previous orders, please. Thank you! Any problems with this selection please let me know.

[TinCow]

Worth noting that it is very obvious that someone lied about submitting orders to protect TS on Night 1. GH, Kommodus, and Kagemusha all submitted orders to protect him. TS died. All three players claim they properly submitted orders. On Night 2, I can personally verify what Kommodus and Kage were doing. GH has admitted to killing on Night 2.

Anyone want to take a guess who was lying about Night 1?

[Andres]

[explanation from Seamus to Kommodus about why he was late here]


:brood:

Explain, please.

[GeneralHankerchief]

It was personal and it was why Seamus was late with his results.

Anyway, I've revealed everything I need to reveal. Make out of it what you will, but I sincerely mean the town no harm.

[TinCow]

It was personal and it was why Seamus was late with his results.

Anyway, I've revealed everything I need to reveal. Make out of it what you will, but I sincerely mean the town no harm.

Uhmm... that's the results PM Kommodus showed me. He accidentally CCed it to you with the auto-reply text box. Strange that you seem to have noted that by specifically reporting that it was an excuse from Seamus to Kommodus.

You never showed me a results PM from Night 1, only Kommodus did.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Tally (based off of glyphz' tally)

GeneralHankerchief: 11 - Kommodus, Tratorix, spL1tp3r50naL1ty, TinCow, atheotes, Chaotix, ricera10, Gaius Scribonius Curio, Psychonaut, YLC, Beefy

CountArach: 10 - Askthepizzaguy, Beskar, White_eyes:D, Craterus, Sasaki Kojiro, El Diablo, Diana Abnoba, a completely inoffensive name, Double A, Jolt

woad&fangs: 4 - Shinseikhaan, scottishranger, Sigurd, LittleGrizzly

Sasaki Kojiro: 3 - GeneralHankerchief, gibsonsg91921, slashandburn

shlin28: 1 Crazed Rabbit

A Very Super Market: 1 Myrddraal

Beefy: 1 Lord Winter

Askthepizzaguy: 1 Andres

Abstain: AVSM


for those of you keeping score, Reenk has infinity billion votes for him to be re-selected as the Director.

[GeneralHankerchief]

TC, that was the same PM I received. Kage will verify it as well when he gets on.

-edit- As will Kommodus, since he'll see that it was sent to the three of us.

[Andres]

It seems like ATPG won't be lynched today. GH is a better option than CA (who still has some things to explain :brood:).

Unvote : ATPG; Vote : GH

[Joe Monks]

Blahblahblah.

Usually, the most simple explanation is the right one.

Two guys target somebody -> kill succeeds.

Possible explanations:
1) made+wiseguy can kill;
2) made+luca can kill;
3) some red text which can, conveniently, not be quoted, explains it all.


In the second capo two guys killing was a family sanctioned hit. If it wasn't family sanctioned
like a made + say two unaffiliated wiseguys was necessary.

Since there was no family rose left at the scene at yarapolk maybe there is some red text that can explain how two guys can kill. I cant remember if a family could choose to not leave a rose at the scene.

Now ATPG knowledge that factionheir was a mafioso is starting to look fishy.

On the other hand remember those crusader dudes who ended up getting lycnched last time.
Its possible that there is some other iteration of that kind of role this time.



1) or 2) -> GH and/or ATPG are guilty
3) GH and ATPG are innocent.

I'm more inclined to believe the most obvious explanations 1) and 2).

FOS: ATPG, GH, SASAKI, CA

I will vote later.

Joe

[DisgruntledGoat]

If those PM's are to be believed its clear that ATPG was the originator of the N2 kill actions, he has even confirmed that to be the case in this thread. But at the same time ATPG has put himself out there and under so much scrutiny in this game it doesn't seem like something a mafioso would do. Then again ATPG is always one to play a bold game. Obviously GH has a history here as being a good player, something that I am not too knowledgeable, as people seem very very very ready jump on the bandwagon to lynch him.

Tincow, you seem very very ready to back up Kommodus and Kage with little evidence to support them. THere is just as much evidence behind Kommodus' case as there is to prove GH is innocent. For someone thats looking at this with fresh eyes (just saw this stuff a few minutes ago) its hard to pick a side. It seems that it would be just as easy for someone to say that Kage and Kommodus are setting up GH for an easy lynch. And the evidence can be manipulated to show that just as easily. So I'm more weary of ATPG than GH, and I am certainly not ready to lynch GH in a bandwagon.

CA seemed a good, safe choice up until this whole mess got under way. I'll stick with him for now. If something more can be revealed regarding ATPG and GH then I may have to change my vote.

[naut]

Unvote : GH; Vote CountArach

[DisgruntledGoat]

Might want to actually vote.... doh

Vote: CountArach

[Askthepizzaguy]

Now ATPG knowledge that factionheir was a mafioso is starting to look fishy.

I assume most people know by now, the knowledge came from the mafioso (or previous iteration thereof) himself, and it was spread to several people, including those in this game whose roles I oppose, and got killed off. If they can verify they got their information the same way, it's not exactly fish-scented. There was a scene and it was unpleasant, but the bottom line is, it probably wouldn't have happened if the info on FH was incorrect.


On the other hand remember those crusader dudes who ended up getting lycnched last time.
Its possible that there is some other iteration of that kind of role this time.

Cuba (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2295102&postcount=1) is lovely this time of year.




Tally
CountArach: 12 - Askthepizzaguy, Beskar, White_eyes:D, Craterus, Sasaki Kojiro, El Diablo, Diana Abnoba, a completely inoffensive name, Double A, Jolt, Psychonaut, DisgruntledGoat

GeneralHankerchief: 11 - Kommodus, Tratorix, spL1tp3r50naL1ty, TinCow, atheotes, Chaotix, ricera10, Gaius Scribonius Curio, YLC, Beefy, Andres

woad&fangs: 4 - Shinseikhaan, scottishranger, Sigurd, LittleGrizzly

Sasaki Kojiro: 3 - GeneralHankerchief, gibsonsg91921, slashandburn

shlin28: 1 Crazed Rabbit

A Very Super Market: 1 Myrddraal

Beefy: 1 Lord Winter

Abstain: AVSM

[Kagemusha]

I can verify what Kommodus and Tincow have been saying. N1´s protection of Stranger went sour and now GH is trying to create an alibi out of killing someone N2. To me this is way too rich to believe.
Also GH. I would like to hear what the investigation result for me was?

[Joe Monks]

Ok lets say I trust you partially for now.

In that case I don't think its fair to lynch GH since he has worked with you. If you are a made that info will come
out and you will get lynched anyway.

Therefore VOTE:Count Arach

Joe

[naut]

high-paying immigrants from Communist East Europe to staff our casinos in Vegas and brothels
From the prologue. Relates to CountArach and Yaropolk, no doubt.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Your result was unclear, by the by.

I didn't personally perform it but I trust the source very much.

Well then i would suggest that you post that in public.

As you wish; you weren't in any danger and I had already informed GH of the findings. I personally thought you might want your own results kept secret.

Too much public info allows the families to better manipulate the circumstances. I'd opt not to post it, unless you insisted that is what you want. :bow:

I would prefer you would post it openly in the thread.

On Kagemusha's request, his results were unclear. I do trust the source very much, for what it is worth.

[Moros]

Okay just a small question but can anyone give me a good reason why pevergreen had to be attacked? I bloody hope he's secretly mafia. Glad I never trusted it and had nothing to do with it.

Also Andres why were you talking about keeping Sasaki in check by the using him in protection squads, if you don't go trough with it? If I didn't read the pm in time, and our protection target was chose, I could have died. Gah!

Another question, why had Yaropolk to be killed? Was there some decent information of him being mafia? If not then why?

Personally I don't trust ATPG at all. But I'd want Andres reasoning for joining in with the idiocy organised by the_stranger & co. Really wtf?

vote: Andres

[Kagemusha]

On Kagemusha's request, his results were unclear. I do trust the source very much, for what it is worth.

Thank you for sharing us this Askthe pizzaguy. For my part i would like to here post the following lines from the rules of this game concerning characters:

Detective:

May investigate two persons per night phase. The investigation will list the individual as innocent (Townie, Don), criminal (Luca, Made not killing, Wise Guy not having killed at all, and some townies), or guilty (Luca or Made on the night of kill, Wise Guy or Townie who has killed – you either get the current kill or their whole track record as well). Acts as a Townie in other respects. Always reads as “innocent” if investigated.

FBI Detective:

May investigate two persons per night phase. Results, which parallel those of the regular detective but tend to be more accurate given the FBI’s greater resources, are delayed in comparison to a normal detective because of the need to interact with FBI bureaucracy. May not participate in any murders and always reads as “innocent” if investigated.

Made Gangster:

A Made is one of the two initial “Made” gangsters in a crime family. Their objective is to lead up the “wet-work” efforts on behalf of their crime family, eventually controlling the town. If investigated by a Detective or another Made, a Made gangster appears “criminal.” If investigated by a Detective during a “night” phase in which the made gangster is actively involved in a killing, they appear “guilty.” In addition, a Made gangster can conduct one “recruiting” investigation per “night” phase. This investigation will determine if the individual is “criminal,” “innocent,” or “unclear.” The initial made gangster of a family is automatically aware of the identity of the family Don.


The small problem with the investigation result you have on me is that is unclear. As everyone can see from the rules. Neither detective nor FBI detective get unclear results. So your trusted source can be nothing else then a made gangster. So please Askthepizzaguy would you be so kind and tell the rest of us the name of your source so he can join the line forming towards the gallows?. In which line yourself also should be joining as if you associate yourself with mafia. You cant be anything other then scum. You two man kill with GH just proves that even stronger.

[Myrddraal]

high-paying immigrants from Communist East Europe to staff our casinos in Vegas and brothels

From the prologue. Relates to CountArach and Yaropolk, no doubt.

Good spot Psychonaut! This is the most compelling evidence that CA's role is pro-mafia.

Unvote, Vote:CA

[TinCow]

The small problem with the investigation result you have on me is that is unclear. As everyone can see from the rules. Neither detective nor FBI detective get unclear results. So your trusted source can be nothing else then a made gangster. So please Askthepizzaguy would you be so kind and tell the rest of us the name of your source so he can join the line forming towards the gallows?. In which line yourself also should be joining as if you associate yourself with mafia. You cant be anything other then scum. You two man kill with GH just proves that even stronger.

Nailed. Too many scum, too few lynches. Looks like ATPG is mafioso and the kill with GH was family-sanctioned. Thus, both are mafioso.

If we're going for a tie vote, I recommend the tie be between ATPG and GH. If ATPG is mafioso, we need to be wary about lynching CA without hearing his side of it. He could well be a pro-town role.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Thank you for sharing us this Askthe pizzaguy. For my part i would like to here post the following lines from the rules of this game concerning characters:

The small problem with the investigation result you have on me is that is unclear. As everyone can see from the rules. Neither detective nor FBI detective get unclear results. So your trusted source can be nothing else then a made gangster. So please Askthepizzaguy would you be so kind and tell the rest of us the name of your source so he can join the line forming towards the gallows?. In which line yourself also should be joining as if you associate yourself with mafia. You cant be anything other then scum. You two man kill with GH just proves that even stronger.

*sigh*

When you have all the roles at your disposal, your request would make more sense. But I applaud your healthy skepticism. :book:

[Craterus]

Isn't it obvious?

There is a Cold War subtext to this year's Capo. I think that, instead of Capo2's Crusaders, we have a group of communist spies/sympathisers at work in the game. They may not necessarily be anti-town but there is a wealth of evidence to suggest their existence.

ATPG mentioned a lot of these things:
Cuba is mentioned in the prologue, obvious Communist affiliations.
CountArach introduces himself with a typically Soviet-associated name, would he have RP'd that if he had a normal role? I don't see it personally. Yaropolk also responds to this which could indicate that the members of this group are unknown to each other, as the Crusaders were, or perhaps his playing along made him an unnecessary target.
Mosin-Nagant rifle kill, a weapon commonly associated with Russia.
The use of French (l'Etranger), French being the favoured language of high society pre-Revolution Russia.
The kill of Yaropolk draws heavily on the murder of Georgi Markov - why has no-one pointed this out?

There may be more, check ATPG's original post against CountArach but there have been a lot (maybe too many) clues already to suggest that there is a Russian presence in this game and considering the era in which it is set, they're unlikely to be friendly. And CA has publicly identified himself as part of this group early on.

I imagine Seamus included this group to set off McCarthyistic levels of witch-hunting so let's not get distracted from the real bad guys but I just can't see this group as being a pro-town one so CA would be a better lynch than most. Unless he can prove the communist infiltrators are pro-town.

[naut]

The small problem with the investigation result you have on me is that is unclear. As everyone can see from the rules. Neither detective nor FBI detective get unclear results. So your trusted source can be nothing else then a made gangster. So please Askthepizzaguy would you be so kind and tell the rest of us the name of your source so he can join the line forming towards the gallows?. In which line yourself also should be joining as if you associate yourself with mafia. You cant be anything other then scum. You two man kill with GH just proves that even stronger.
There's a hole in your reasoning. If you look at the townie PM:


2. Remember, however, that a significant minority (25%) of townspeople will register as “unclear” rather than innocent.
Seamus suggests 25% of townies appear unclear whether they are investigated by a Detective, FBI, or Made.

So your argument is an instant flop. :juggle2:

[Reenk Roink]

Thank you for sharing us this Askthe pizzaguy. For my part i would like to here post the following lines from the rules of this game concerning characters:

Detective:

May investigate two persons per night phase. The investigation will list the individual as innocent (Townie, Don), criminal (Luca, Made not killing, Wise Guy not having killed at all, and some townies), or guilty (Luca or Made on the night of kill, Wise Guy or Townie who has killed – you either get the current kill or their whole track record as well). Acts as a Townie in other respects. Always reads as “innocent” if investigated.

FBI Detective:

May investigate two persons per night phase. Results, which parallel those of the regular detective but tend to be more accurate given the FBI’s greater resources, are delayed in comparison to a normal detective because of the need to interact with FBI bureaucracy. May not participate in any murders and always reads as “innocent” if investigated.

Made Gangster:

A Made is one of the two initial “Made” gangsters in a crime family. Their objective is to lead up the “wet-work” efforts on behalf of their crime family, eventually controlling the town. If investigated by a Detective or another Made, a Made gangster appears “criminal.” If investigated by a Detective during a “night” phase in which the made gangster is actively involved in a killing, they appear “guilty.” In addition, a Made gangster can conduct one “recruiting” investigation per “night” phase. This investigation will determine if the individual is “criminal,” “innocent,” or “unclear.” The initial made gangster of a family is automatically aware of the identity of the family Don.


The small problem with the investigation result you have on me is that is unclear. As everyone can see from the rules. Neither detective nor FBI detective get unclear results. So your trusted source can be nothing else then a made gangster. So please Askthepizzaguy would you be so kind and tell the rest of us the name of your source so he can join the line forming towards the gallows?. In which line yourself also should be joining as if you associate yourself with mafia. You cant be anything other then scum. You two man kill with GH just proves that even stronger.

hyvä Kage! :2thumbsup:

I will just leave you guys with two things:

1) if you leave me with a tie, I will aim to please...
2) make a list of every suspect we have got here... in Capo it is way too easy to slip through. Prole and I were ratted out really early in Capo I, we went ahead and survived so long we didn't even get lynched :smash:

[Kagemusha]

*sigh*

When you have all the roles at your disposal, your request would make more sense. But I applaud your healthy skepticism. :book:

So you are seriously suggesting that while you conduct two man kill with GH and get results from people that point into a made gangster investigation. You should not be lynched because you have some information others do not know while you refuse to share it? Thats plenty enough for me to Vote: Askthepizzaguy

[Askthepizzaguy]

There's a hole in your reasoning. If you look at the townie PM:


Seamus suggests 25% of townies appear unclear whether they are investigated by a Detective, FBI, or Made.

So your argument is an instant flop. :juggle2:

There's that too, but I'm offering another alternative explanation. Work it out.

[DisgruntledGoat]

How 'bout you work it out for us.

[Kagemusha]

There's a hole in your reasoning. If you look at the townie PM:


Seamus suggests 25% of townies appear unclear whether they are investigated by a Detective, FBI, or Made.

So your argument is an instant flop. :juggle2:

So Psychonaut dont tell me that you are scum also. Since i dont count as townie since i am a unaffliated wiseguy. So my result should be criminal if detective checks me.:whip:

[Joe Monks]

Unvote: Vote: Ask the Pizza Guy

Think we should all switch votes to pizza guy.

[Andres]

But I'd want Andres reasoning for joining in with the idiocy organised by the_stranger & co.


1) I didn't know about TS organising an attack on pever;
2) I didn't get a reply from you and Sasaki but short before the night would end; I already joined the protection group of pevergreen by then, like I told you , btw:









Hi Sasaki,


Would you like to join Moros and me in a protection group tonight?

Andres.

Alright.

Sasaki

Ok then.

El Diablo or Dutch_guy sound good? Or do you have somebody else in mind.

:bow:

Let's protect dutch_guy.

Sasaki
Check.

Sorry, but I'm already in another group organised by TS to protect somebody else (I'll tell who when the night is over), so you'll need a different third party.

Point of interest that I picked up (in case I die and I hope at least one of you is townie and is able to use this info): woad&fangs is in a vig group, also organised by TS.

Andres.

Gah! Err... Sasaki do you know someone willing to be the third protector?


By the time I got Sasaki's reply on who to protect, we were close to deadline and I was already committed to another protection.

[Askthepizzaguy]

How 'bout you work it out for us.

1, 2, 3

Detective, FBI,

[DisgruntledGoat]

@ Kage

Ah, its so easy to claim wiseguy isn't. GH claims it and we quickly poo-poo it since the role PM was already posted. Now you claim it as well. To me, its the ultimate cop out, the safe cover that no one can disprove right now and I'm not going to believe anyone that claims it publicly.

[naut]

So Psychonaut dont tell me that you are scum also. Since i dont count as townie since i am a unaffliated wiseguy. So my result should be criminal if detective checks me.:whip:
Haha. You should take it as a complement that I assumed you were a townie. :laugh4:


1, 2, 3

Detective, FBI,
CIA. :idea2:


Isn't it obvious?

There is a Cold War subtext to this year's Capo. I think that, instead of Capo2's Crusaders, we have a group of communist spies/sympathisers at work in the game. They may not necessarily be anti-town but there is a wealth of evidence to suggest their existence.

ATPG mentioned a lot of these things:
Cuba is mentioned in the prologue, obvious Communist affiliations.
CountArach introduces himself with a typically Soviet-associated name, would he have RP'd that if he had a normal role? I don't see it personally. Yaropolk also responds to this which could indicate that the members of this group are unknown to each other, as the Crusaders were, or perhaps his playing along made him an unnecessary target.
Mosin-Nagant rifle kill, a weapon commonly associated with Russia.
The use of French (l'Etranger), French being the favoured language of high society pre-Revolution Russia.
The kill of Yaropolk draws heavily on the murder of Georgi Markov - why has no-one pointed this out?

There may be more, check ATPG's original post against CountArach but there have been a lot (maybe too many) clues already to suggest that there is a Russian presence in this game and considering the era in which it is set, they're unlikely to be friendly. And CA has publicly identified himself as part of this group early on.
You're onto something. If there is a communist element as Seamus suggests in the Prologue, he'd add a natural enemy for them...

The CIA! :idea2:

[Kagemusha]

@ Kage

Ah, its so easy to claim wiseguy isn't. GH claims it and we quickly poo-poo it since the role PM was already posted. Now you claim it as well. To me, its the ultimate cop out, the safe cover that no one can disprove right now and I'm not going to believe anyone that claims it publicly.

And exactly why would i claim to be wiseguy over a townie if i wasnt a wiseguy?

[Andres]

CIA, FBI, (KGB?), detective(s), Russian criminals, 5 mafia families, plenty of Wiseguys, some secret roles...

Am I the only townie?

[gibsonsg91921]

Unvote: Sasaki Vote: CountArach

No sense not picking a side in a close race.

[DisgruntledGoat]

And exactly why would i claim to be wiseguy over a townie if i wasnt a wiseguy?

Why would GH claim to be a wiseguy, to cover something up. Not saying you have done that, I just don't put any stock in the claim.

[Moros]

1) I didn't know about TS organising an attack on pever;
2) I didn't get a reply from you and Sasaki but short before the night would end; I already joined the protection group of pevergreen by then, like I told you , btw:





By the time I got Sasaki's reply on who to protect, we were close to deadline and I was already committed to another protection.
So you didn't know pever being the the target but you knew about a vigilante attack by TS... SO why trust him, if you know he's attacking people, but not who.

Okay who'd trust me if I'd say I'm gonna kill someone. But it's for the greater good. But you can't know who I'll be killing? If even I knew joining this was a bad idea, a smart guy like you should have.

[Kagemusha]

So Askthepizzguy, please elaborate. It seems last you claimed your friend is a FBI detective. According to rules my investigation result should have been criminal for an FBI detective and it was unclear. Im afraid you are just diggin a deeper hole to yourself.

First you kill people in a two man kill, second you offer an investigation result that points to mafia investigation. Third you lie that your source is a FBI detective. If that does not warrant a lynch i dont know what does.

[Proletariat]

A russian with a gun? If there are commies in the game there's no way they're protown. CA needs to go. It's a shame we can't lynch him and GH both this round, I have a feeling if either gets away they'll weasel back underneath the radar while the mob finds some tangent to go off on the next round.

Vote: CountArach

[Andres]

So you didn't know pever being the the target but you knew about a vigilante attack by TS... SO why trust him, if you know he's attacking people, but not who.

Okay who'd trust me if I'd say I'm gonna kill someone. But it's for the greater good. But you can't know who I'll be killing? If even I knew joining this was a bad idea, a smart guy like you should have.


Oh, come on now.

TS organises groups. One of those is a protection and I join it. That's scummy in your book?

Why trust TS? Meh, why trust anybody else? I can trust nobody, but there's no harm in protecting, is there?

I've joined a protection group N1 and N2 and I shared all information I got. Very scummy now, is it? You're barking upon the wrong tree, Moros.

And I'm waiting on a reply to my pm for what to do next night.

[TinCow]

2) make a list of every suspect we have got here... in Capo it is way too easy to slip through. Prole and I were ratted out really early in Capo I, we went ahead and survived so long we didn't even get lynched :smash:

A very good idea. Please, everyone, add on both names and short summaries of evidence to this list. I can't remember everything that has happened.

GeneralHankerchief - Suspect in failed protection of TS on Night 1. Killed Yaropolk in 2 man hit on Night 2.
ATPG - Killed Yaropolk in 2 man hit on Night 2. Claims contact with a 'secret role' that produces "unclear" investigation results on Kagemusha, who claims to be a wiseguy.
CountArach - Likely member of the 'Russian' group with the now-dead Yaropolk.
woad&fangs - Killed pevergreen on N2 with vig group.
Craterus - Killed pevergreen on N2 with vig group.
Ironside - Killed pevergreen on N2 with vig group.
Moros - ATPG claims investigation result showed him as criminal.
Centurion1 - Possibly killed pevergreen on N2 with vig group.
DJGingivitis - Possibly killed pevergreen on N2 with vig group.
Sasaki - Attempted to form mafia family.
scottishranger - Attempted to form mafia family.
Jolt - Involved in shenanigans regarding II/FH.
Andres, Beefy187, shlin28 - One of these three lied about sending in orders to protect pevergreen on N2.
AVSM - ATPG claims investigation result showed him as criminal.
Kommodus - Suspect in failed protection of TS on Night 1.
Kagemusa - Suspect in failed protection of TS on Night 1.

Updated as of post 702.

[Askthepizzaguy]

It's a shame we can't lynch him and GH both this round,

Technically you can, it's been proposed that GH and CA both get the vote and Reenk lynches them both. I've objected to that idea because GH is assisting in taking down those Russians, and he's a known quantity, but you should be aware it is an option.


So Askthepizzguy, please elaborate. It seems last you claimed your friend is a FBI detective. According to rules my investigation result should have been criminal for an FBI detective and it was unclear. Im afraid you are just diggin a deeper hole to yourself.

First you kill people in a two man kill, second you offer an investigation result that points to mafia investigation. Third you lie that your source is a FBI detective. If that does not warrant a lynch i dont know what does.

I'm afraid you're putting me in a position where I can only dig a deeper hole; there's not much I can do, my hands are tied. But here I am, freely admitting I cannot answer all your questions. I'm not hiding that. I'm offering the best explanation I can in a difficult situation.

I fully expect I warrant a lynch by now. You take out CountArach, and I'll gladly follow. I won't plead for my life. And then you will get the answers you seek.

[Craterus]

A russian with a gun? If there are commies in the game there's no way they're protown. CA needs to go. It's a shame we can't lynch him and GH both this round, I have a feeling if either gets away they'll weasel back underneath the radar while the mob finds some tangent to go off on the next round.

Vote: CountArach

Spoken like a true patriot ~;)

[Proletariat]

Technically you can, it's been proposed that GH and CA both get the vote and Reenk lynches them both. I've objected to that idea because GH is assisting in taking down those Russians, and he's a known quantity, but you should be aware it is an option.


Technically we could sure, but double lynches never, ever work in Capo so let's not fall for it in Capo3. One of the lynchees will always be here right before voting ends or a friend of theirs and then they break the tie right at the deadline.

[Joe Monks]

Technically we could sure, but double lynches never, ever work in Capo so let's not fall for it in Capo3. One of the lynchees will always be here right before voting ends or a friend of theirs and then they break the tie right at the deadline.

That uncovers more scum that way. And early in the game there is no harm in it IMO.

Joe

[Kagemusha]

Technically you can, it's been proposed that GH and CA both get the vote and Reenk lynches them both. I've objected to that idea because GH is assisting in taking down those Russians, and he's a known quantity, but you should be aware it is an option.



I'm afraid you're putting me in a position where I can only dig a deeper hole; there's not much I can do, my hands are tied. But here I am, freely admitting I cannot answer all your questions. I'm not hiding that. I'm offering the best explanation I can in a difficult situation.

I fully expect I warrant a lynch by now. You take out CountArach, and I'll gladly follow. I won't plead for my life. And then you will get the answers you seek.

So should we think that you have somekind of victory condition to fulfill in lynching CA and wiping out the hypothetical Russian faction of Yaropolk and CA?

[Moros]

A very good idea. Please, everyone, add on both names and short summaries of evidence to this list. I can't remember everything that has happened.
Moros - Possibly killed pevergreen on N2 with vig group. ATPG claims investigation result showed him as criminal.
.
As Andres & Sasaki can confirm I was planning on protecting someone. I also send to DJGingivitis, gibsonsg91921, Jolt, The Stranger, that I was not going to participate in a vigilante group. They can confirm that as well.

[Askthepizzaguy]

So should we think that you have somekind of victory condition to fulfill in lynching CA and wiping out the hypothetical Russian faction of Yaropolk and CA?

I'm not sure I could convince you that the sky is blue presently, :laugh4: but yes, I categorically state that my alignment is pro-town and I share town victory conditions. I've been as forthright as I can be, and it isn't enough to convince you, that's regrettable, but out of my hands.

[Kagemusha]

I'm not sure I could convince you that the sky is blue presently, :laugh4: but yes, I categorically state that my alignment is pro-town and I share town victory conditions. I've been as forthright as I can be, and it isn't enough to convince you, that's regrettable, but out of my hands.

Well ofcourse you could if you gave me evidence.:laugh4:But basically you cant prove your innocence and you are asking for a blind trust in a mafia game. Sorry but no. You are clearly scum as pointed by the evidence against you and you should be lynched. If not today, then as soons as possible.

[Moros]

I could be true, there was such a thing in the previous capo, with the crusaders and the shadow (me). Only the roles would have been swapped then.

Vote: CA

Pizza you say this guy is guilty. Are you willing to sacrifice your life if it shows out he's not? So CA is a prime suspect if he's guilty, we've got one if he's not, we know pizza is anti-town. Thus that'd mean we'd have another for sure. Whatever happens at least we'd have one anti-town guy killed in the end.

[Kagemusha]

I could be true, there was such a thing in the previous capo, with the crusaders and the shadow (me). Only the roles would have been swapped then.

But were either of those factions pro town?

[Craterus]

The Crusaders were. But Communists in America in the early 50s? It doesn't add up.

[TinCow]

I'm trying to add more info onto my list. Has anyone claimed responsibility for the protection of DJGingivitis on N2? If not, that's evidnce of Don being protected by Luca.

[KukriKhan]

CIA, FBI, (KGB?), detective(s), Russian criminals, 5 mafia families, plenty of Wiseguys, some secret roles...

Am I the only townie?

LOL. I was wondering the same thing myself.:laugh4: But, doing the arithmetic, I think we "in the dark" townies still outnumber all the potential threats, approximately 3:1 at this moment. Of course, that advantage can decline quickly once all the killer-teams get up to snuff, manpower-wise.

A couple of us glommed onto the commie comments, they being seemingly out-of-the-blue. What I don't get is why, once the Stalin "clue" was dropped by Yaropolk, it was picked up in public by CA and Jolt, instead of by PM. That seems sloppier than I've seen those players play before.

So I'm thinking CA is not a commie, but got swept up inadvertantly in a recruitment effort. Nevertheless, I'd sure like to see his explantion.

And we have GH admitting to wiseguy, seeking a family status, with a hard-to-swallow "kill-with-2" explanation. In terms of the most easily-identified threat to town security, I hafta

vote: GeneralHankerchief

select: ReenkRoink

[Moros]

But were either of those factions pro town?
The crusaders were protown. They had code words to find eachother and together they would have been quite a tool against the mafia. I was the shadow and was the maffia guy supposed to neutralize them. See the story thread of the Capo II.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Pizza you say this guy is guilty. Are you willing to sacrifice your life if it shows out he's not?
I'm already on the hook for FactionHeir, so putting myself on the hook for CountArach isn't even a thing. But yes, I take responsibility if it is wrong, and that's if I live that long.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I'm trying to add more info onto my list. Has anyone claimed responsibility for the protection of DJGingivitis on N2? If not, that's evidnce of Don being protected by Luca.

DJGingivitis- Defended by Chaotix, Death is Yonder, Splitpersonality

They can confirm.

[TinCow]

thanks

[Moros]

I'm already on the hook for FactionHeir, so putting myself on the hook for CountArach isn't even a thing. But yes, I take responsibility if it is wrong, and that's if I live that long.

If you fear a mobster attack. I'll be willing to offer my help in a protection squad for you. Well for now that is.

[Sigurd]

Tally:

CountArach : 16 (ACIN, ATPG, Beskar, Craterus, Diana, DisgruntledGoat, Double A, El Diablo, gibson, Jolt, Moros, Myrddraal, Prole, Psycho, Sasaki, WE:D, )

GeneralHankerchief : 12 (Andres, atheotes, Beefy, Chatorix, Gaius, Kommodus, Kukri, ricera10, split, TinCow, Tratorix, YLC)

W&F : 4 (LG, Scottish, ‘khaan, Sigurd )
ATPG : 2 (Joe M, Kage, )
Sasaki : 2 (GH, slashandburn )
Beefy : 1 (LW, )
Shlin28 : 1 (CR)



Abstain: 1 (AVSM)

Not Voting: 31 (AggonyDuck, Caius, Centurion1, CountA, Cowhead, disco, DJG, Dutch, glyphz, Greyblades, Haudegen, Ichigo, Ironside, Iskander, Johnhugh, Jooray, Khazaar, Leet E, Nole4694, Pannonian, Reenk(excused), Rhyfelwher, shlin28, Skooma, SSNeo, Truepraetorian, Twilight, Veronica, Warmaster, W&F, Xehh)

[DJGingivitis]

Vote CA I feel that this discovery is better than GH. For now.

[shlin28]

I am content to let a possible detective live... for now.

Vote: CA

[Sigurd]

A very good idea. Please, everyone, add on both names and short summaries of evidence to this list. I can't remember everything that has happened.


I guess we should move this list along with us as we do a tally.
You forgot Disco - he was outed by Reenk Roink as one able to kill.

GeneralHankerchief - Suspect in failed protection of TS on Night 1. Killed Yaropolk in 2 man hit on Night 2.
ATPG - Killed Yaropolk in 2 man hit on Night 2. Claims contact with a 'secret role' that produces "unclear" investigation results on Kagemusha, who claims to be a wiseguy.
CountArach - Likely member of the 'Russian' group with the now-dead Yaropolk.
woad&fangs - Killed pevergreen on N2 with vig group.
Craterus - Killed pevergreen on N2 with vig group.
Ironside - Killed pevergreen on N2 with vig group / RR claims this guy can kill.
Discovery1 - RR claims this guy can kill.
Moros - ATPG claims investigation result showed him as criminal.
Centurion1 - Possibly killed pevergreen on N2 with vig group.
DJGingivitis - Possibly killed pevergreen on N2 with vig group.
Sasaki - Attempted to form mafia family.
scottishranger - Attempted to form mafia family.
Jolt - Involved in shenanigans regarding II/FH.
Andres, Beefy187, shlin28 - One of these three lied about sending in orders to protect pevergreen on N2.
AVSM - ATPG claims investigation result showed him as criminal.
Kommodus - Suspect in failed protection of TS on Night 1.
Kagemusa - Suspect in failed protection of TS on Night 1.

[DJGingivitis]

Also I was not part of that vig group. I sent in orders only for the protection group I was in. I was supposed to be but was not. I think seamus accidently replied to all of us by mistake and just ease for himself. I do not blame him. Also, Any questions for me will have to wait for about 12 hours. I am going to six flags all day so i wont be home till after the day phase.

[TinCow]

I think seamus accidently replied to all of us by mistake and just ease for himself. I do not blame him.

Ok, this relates to something I haven't mentioned yet, but this is too much to make it a coincidence. Apparently the N1 results for Kommodus, GH, and Kagemusha were sent by Seamus to all of them, with all of them visibly CCed in the results. The same thing happened in my own N2 protection group: the results were visibly CCed to me and both of my partners. According to DJGingivitis, this has happened to him as well. In addition, he's claiming that people who didn't even submit those orders got night results for that attack.

So what's going on with the night results here? Who is getting them and why?

[Andres]

I could be true, there was such a thing in the previous capo, with the crusaders and the shadow (me). Only the roles would have been swapped then.

Vote: CA

Pizza you say this guy is guilty. Are you willing to sacrifice your life if it shows out he's not? So CA is a prime suspect if he's guilty, we've got one if he's not, we know pizza is anti-town. Thus that'd mean we'd have another for sure. Whatever happens at least we'd have one anti-town guy killed in the end.

1) you need to unvote first;
2) you are not allowed to edit a post that contains a post as per the rules.

[Craterus]

You get a result for a night action if you are mentioned in the orders. Regardless of wether or not you actually participated.

So if A and B send in Orders saying "A, B and C to protect Z". A, B and C will get a result from Seamus after the night phase.

[johnhughthom]

Vote:Arach

Atpg and GH are two and three on my most suspicious list.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Thank you for sharing us this Askthe pizzaguy. For my part i would like to here post the following lines from the rules of this game concerning characters:

Detective:

May investigate two persons per night phase. The investigation will list the individual as innocent (Townie, Don), criminal (Luca, Made not killing, Wise Guy not having killed at all, and some townies), or guilty (Luca or Made on the night of kill, Wise Guy or Townie who has killed – you either get the current kill or their whole track record as well). Acts as a Townie in other respects. Always reads as “innocent” if investigated.

FBI Detective:

May investigate two persons per night phase. Results, which parallel those of the regular detective but tend to be more accurate given the FBI’s greater resources, are delayed in comparison to a normal detective because of the need to interact with FBI bureaucracy. May not participate in any murders and always reads as “innocent” if investigated.

Made Gangster:

A Made is one of the two initial “Made” gangsters in a crime family. Their objective is to lead up the “wet-work” efforts on behalf of their crime family, eventually controlling the town. If investigated by a Detective or another Made, a Made gangster appears “criminal.” If investigated by a Detective during a “night” phase in which the made gangster is actively involved in a killing, they appear “guilty.” In addition, a Made gangster can conduct one “recruiting” investigation per “night” phase. This investigation will determine if the individual is “criminal,” “innocent,” or “unclear.” The initial made gangster of a family is automatically aware of the identity of the family Don.


The small problem with the investigation result you have on me is that is unclear. As everyone can see from the rules. Neither detective nor FBI detective get unclear results. So your trusted source can be nothing else then a made gangster. So please Askthepizzaguy would you be so kind and tell the rest of us the name of your source so he can join the line forming towards the gallows?. In which line yourself also should be joining as if you associate yourself with mafia. You cant be anything other then scum. You two man kill with GH just proves that even stronger.

Detectives can, and are, receiving unclear results. This passage of the role descriptions was not meant as an absolute guideline and do not reflect the full range of results, the potential for FBI detectives to uncover role information, the potential for detectives to uncover role information based on repeated investigation and the like. Sorry if I created the impression this was an absolute statement of potential results.

[woad&fangs]

Vote: GeneralHankerchiefl

To try and force a tie. Him and CA both seem like good lynches.

[TinCow]

You get a result for a night action if you are mentioned in the orders. Regardless of wether or not you actually participated.

So if A and B send in Orders saying "A, B and C to protect Z". A, B and C will get a result from Seamus after the night phase.

That didn't happen with my N1 results. I submitted orders to protect CA with Crazed Rabbit and scottishranger. The results I got from Seamus were sent ONLY to me.

[Myrddraal]

So, about the Georgi Markov reference. I'm willing to believe that ATPG has a special kill ability, but the Georgi Markov reference would imply that ATPG is KGB.

He used his special kill on Yaro, and now he wants CountArach dead. Obviously ATPG has an objective to kill certain people with Russian connections, yet his kill method implies that he is Russian himself.

Perhaps ATPG is KGB, and the KGB want to kill another Russian group, possibly the east europeans running the casinos mentioned in the prologue...

Whatever the case ATPG has not been entirely honest with us, directing us to lynch CA for personal reasons. Having said that, with his one off kill apparently used he seems pretty harmless. He claims to share Townie objectives and my gut is inclined to believe him.

[Myrddraal]

In any case, I'm not inclined to vote for CA until he has defended himself against ATPG's claims.

Unvote CA, Vote: GH

[Jolt]

Do you now deny that you contacted FactionHeir and wrote what he quoted in this (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2311605&postcount=341)?
You knew a pro-town role and wanted to make a deal with who you believed was an original member of Stracchi? You are at least a name on the most wanted list for this.

No I do not. And as is in the thread, I have explained the whole length of the process time and again. However, since you believe that I want to become Mafia, can you explain how did I pass up this oportunity?



i told you my plan... so pm gibson please and tell him he will help me vigi this night. ill also pm him. this plan will massively help the town. if you wont approve that is very suspicious.


I want you to send approval of my pt to the following persons

Woad&Fangs, Andres, Dutch_Guy, Shlin28 and Beefy187

I want you to authorise me to the following persons as a valid giver of orders to these people:

Gibsons, Moros, Djgingivtis, jolt

thank you

I'd say trust him... for now... :inquisitive:

Something like this, which would be perfect for me as the Mafia wannabe to gain a kill already, thus advancing me a step into Mafiadom. A clean kill, sanctioned by none other than our glorious Director himself. And my reply.


I'm already in a Protection Group with people I trust. I'm not gonna start taking orders from a nobody I don't the slightest bit if he's Mafia or not.

Now, can you tell me if isn't it strange that a guy that you're spinning as wanting to become a Mafia, declines a clean kill approved by the Director, on the basis of not knowing if the guy who is setting up all these kills, is Mafia himself?

[Craterus]

That didn't happen with my N1 results. I submitted orders to protect CA with Crazed Rabbit and scottishranger. The results I got from Seamus were sent ONLY to me.

That doesn't mean CR and SR didn't get results for that protection attempt though.

This KGB theory is interesting. The Markov kill is going in the wrong direction if we accept CA and Yaropolk are a 'Russian' gang. Need more information from both CA and ATPG and what their roles are beyond finding and outlasting each other? If anything.

[Jolt]

I can confirm that I missed my protection this night and still got the result PM.

[TinCow]

That doesn't mean CR and SR didn't get results for that protection attempt though.

Why would Seamus visibly CC everyone in the other examples (including the TS N1 results), but use BCC or individual PMs to send out my N1 results?

[Craterus]

Well, did you name CR and SR in your orders? If you didn't, that could be why, but I honestly don't know.

All I know is that if you're mentioned in an order, you'll get a result PM, regardless of whether you participated.

[Sigurd]

No I do not. And as is in the thread, I have explained the whole length of the process time and again. However, since you believe that I want to become Mafia, can you explain how did I pass up this oportunity?


i told you my plan... so pm gibson please and tell him he will help me vigi this night. ill also pm him. this plan will massively help the town. if you wont approve that is very suspicious.


Alright... I wrote my post before I got to your exchange with Gaius.
But something else caught my eye - gibson was helping in a vigilante group? Should he be on the Most Wanted list?

[Jolt]

Alright... I wrote my post before I got to your exchange with Gaius.
But something else caught my eye - gibson was helping in a vigilante group? Should he be on the Most Wanted list?

Don't know. I never went ahead with the vig group thingie, so I don't know who actually got to participate in it. Our glorious Director should know otherwise, I bet. He was behind this thing.

[gibsonsg91921]

I never went ahead with The Stranger either, it seemed kinda fishy that we were all of the sudden "BEST HOPES OF THE TOWN."

[Sigurd]

Don't know. I never went ahead with the vig group thingie, so I don't know who actually got to participate in it. Our glorious Director should know otherwise, I bet. He was behind this thing.
Wait.. so you are saying that Reenk Roink orchestrated the vig kill on pevergreen? And then publicly accused The Stranger to muddle it up?

[Joooray]

Perhaps ATPG is KGB, and the KGB want to kill another Russian group, possibly the east europeans running the casinos mentioned in the prologue...


Or maybe ATPG is a double agent for the CIA and the KGB, changing from night to night. :idea2:
Well anyhow, this is just how confused I am at the moment, but I love how every little detail here is used against and for people. Just very interesting to observe as a first timer. :laugh4:

So when it comes to voting I find it hard to make an informed choice since there are just way to many accusation flooding around. As far as I'm concerned ATPG makes an compelling case about CA and I find it quite possible that he has a special role which allows him to kill with fewer people since this would level the playing field for the town in regards to the mafia. I just hope that, this being such an important pro-town role, he hasn't revealed himself too early and we, the town, won't loose him to early in the game.
Another thing that concerns me is, that if the accusations about CA and Yaropolk hold true, they seem to be part of a viligant group independent from the mafia families. By focusing our attention on them, the mafia families have the opportunity consolidate and hit us with their whole might later in the game.
Just my 2 cent.

Anyway, since I don't find the case GH more convincing I'll rally behind the
Vote:CountArach group.

[Iskander 3.1]

Wow, I just spent my entire break going through this entire list and I'm somewhat baffled. Many thanks to Sigurd for his summary of the accused (post 706). I won't be able to post again before the round is over, so based on what I've been reading:

Vote: General Hankerchief
Select: Reenk Roink

[Kagemusha]

Detectives can, and are, receiving unclear results. This passage of the role descriptions was not meant as an absolute guideline and do not reflect the full range of results, the potential for FBI detectives to uncover role information, the potential for detectives to uncover role information based on repeated investigation and the like. Sorry if I created the impression this was an absolute statement of potential results.

Thanks for clearing this up. So it seems that results of detectives and FBI detectives are not crystal clear either. Muddy waters are becoming even more muddy. With that i will give benefit of a doubt to Askthepizzaguy. But if i compare cases between GH and CA. my vote goes to GH. Nevertheless i still think that preserving lying and killing players is not a winning tactic in this game. It would be far more better to read their autopsy results then put blind faith on someone who sounds convincing and communicates with large number of players. It would be lot better be safe then sorry.

So. Unvote and Vote: GH

[Jolt]

Wait.. so you are saying that Reenk Roink orchestrated the vig kill on pevergreen? And then publicly accused The Stranger to muddle it up?

No, TheStranger is apparently the number one mastermind of the vig kill. I don't know how much involvement that had from Reenk, but as the intermediate between all groups, its kinda weird that he allowed vig kill this early without even knowing who the vig kill intended to murder.

[seireikhaan]

Tally:

CountArach : 19 (ACIN, DJGingivitisATPG, Beskar, Johnhuthom, Craterus, Diana, DisgruntledGoat, Double A, El Diablo, gibson, Jolt, Moros, Prole, Psycho, Jooray, Sasaki, Shlin28, WE:D, )

GeneralHankerchief : 16 (Andres, atheotes, Iskander, Myrddraal, Beefy, Chatorix, Gaius, Kagemusha, Kommodus, Kukri, ricera10, split, TinCow, Tratorix, Woad, YLC)

W&F : 4 (LG, Scottish, ‘khaan, Sigurd )
ATPG : 2 (Joe M )
Sasaki : 2 (GH, slashandburn )
Beefy : 1 (LW, )
Shlin28 : 1 (CR)


Abstain: 1 (AVSM)

Not Voting: 27 (AggonyDuck, Caius, Centurion1, CountA, Cowhead, disco, DJG, Dutch, glyphz, Greyblades, Haudegen, Ichigo, Ironside, Khazaar, Leet E, Nole4694, Pannonian, Reenk(excused), Rhyfelwher, shlin28, Skooma, SSNeo, Truepraetorian, Twilight, Veronica, Warmaster, Xehh)

[Crazed Rabbit]

So I think it's reasonable to ask that NO ONE LISTEN TO THE STRANGER. We really don't need more of his organizing.

CR

[Jolt]

Lol, there are people playing I haven't ever seen them post.

[DisgruntledGoat]

Lol, there are people playing I haven't ever seen them post.

For quick reference here is everyone that has posted in this thread. No real surprises, ATPG is at the top of the list with 50 posts.


Total Posts: 732

Askthepizzaguy 50
Andres 33
TinCow 30
a completely inoffensive name 25
Jolt 23
GeneralHankerchief 22
Kagemusha 21
Seamus Fermanagh 18
pevergreen 18
Sasaki Kojiro 16
spL1tp3r50naL1ty 16
Lord Winter 16
scottishranger 16
Sigurd 15
Myrddraal 15
gibsonsg91921 14
Moros 14
Reenk Roink 14
Beskar 13
Yaropolk 13
DJGingivitis 13
Shinseikhaan 13
The Stranger 13
FactionHeir 12
woad&fangs 12
DisgruntledGoat 12
Beefy187 12
White_eyes:D 12
Chaotix 12
shlin28 12
Tratorix 11
LittleGrizzly 11
Craterus 10
Psychonaut 9
Gaius Scribonius Curio 9
A Very Super Market 9
Crazed Rabbit 9
CountArach 9
Death is yonder 9
Diana Abnoba 9
slashandburn 8
Double A 7
Joe Monks 7
Kommodus 6
johnhughthom 6
atheotes 6
ricera10 5
YLC 5
Twilightblade 5
Iskander 3.1 5
Proletariat 4
El Diablo 4
glyphz 4
Ichigo 4
Caius 4
Joooray 4
KukriKhan 3
Ironside 3
Khazaar 3
Quintus.JC 2
Pannonian 2
Centurion1 2
SSNeoperestroika 2
Haudegen 2
Leet Eriksson 2
discovery1 1
Louis VI the Fat 1
Skooma Addict 1
Greyblades 1
Veronica "Trouble" Toluso 1
Rhyfelwyr 1
AggonyDuck 1

Some closer scrutiny should be given to players with fewer or no posts.

[discovery1]

Darn, there are alot of new posts.

Anyway, I vaguely remember someone in the chat saying that GH was found killing someone, so

Vote: GH

[Language please - GH]

[A Very Super Market]

Louis isn't even playing :P

[DisgruntledGoat]

Louis isn't even playing :P

Neither is Seamus but he's on the list. Its just pulled from the list of all posts in the thread. I didn't bother to filter it.

[Splitpersonality]

I'm trying to add more info onto my list. Has anyone claimed responsibility for the protection of DJGingivitis on N2? If not, that's evidnce of Don being protected by Luca.

DJGingivitis- Defended by Chaotix, Death is Yonder, Splitpersonality

They can confirm.


I can indeed confirm this, this is what I was alluding to the other day. Our protection group went through despite DiY dying the same night. I hope that things have an order they go in, that we can figure out, and I doubt that in a game this large the host would be throwing things up there randomly.


If we figure out what attacked DJG and DiY, even speculation, we can figure the order that kills go in, if one exists.


Edit:
I'm up near the top of the list with 15 posts? Insane!

[Sigurd]

Many thanks to Sigurd for his summary of the accused (post 706)

It is eally the work of TinCow. I merely copied it and added a name to it. :bow:

[Reenk Roink]

No, TheStranger is apparently the number one mastermind of the vig kill. I don't know how much involvement that had from Reenk, but as the intermediate between all groups, its kinda weird that he allowed vig kill this early without even knowing who the vig kill intended to murder.

What is this? I didn't "allow" any vig kill. Nor did I request one. My involvement with the pro town groups was to merge two of them and to simply suggest protections (I personally disapproved of vig kills) and oversee. I can't help it if ts gets ideas than goes and suggests a plot to kill and save pever. I also told people to listen to ts when he asked for people on PROTECTION MISSIONS because I had recommended pever to him (huge mistake obviously).

Enough slander of the Director, don't drag me down in the mud you coated on yourself. :whip:

[Lord Winter]

FoS: Jolt for trying to throw suspicion off him and onto the stranger with little evidence.

unvote: Beefy
Vote: CA

I was unaware of similarities with Capo II and the evidence in the write up when I defended him. He's looking like a better lynch now.

[Ironside]

Vote: GH

While it's quite certain that ATPG got a special role (or some very odd mafia rules used), GH doesn't have a stellar record before this kill. And we're not sure what's ATPG:s role even if he did imply CIA. CountAnarch doesn't seem to be active killing for now either.

And of course if I vote GH, we'll pull it closer to a potential double lynch.

spL1tp3r50naL1ty, all perform thier (real) night orders, even if thier partners die, been as such since Capo I.
Not sure what happens if Killer A, kills Protector B, who in turn protected Killer A (tough luck) from Killer C. That's one impossible timeline.

Edit: Adding rule control. Won't be studing what this means tonight, but it's quite damning on the claimed protection teams for The Stranger and pever.



Have you changed the description on how failed protection groups end up protecting thier targets, compared from the previous games?

Aka if insufficient people for the protection show up, anyone that did send in their order will show up but fail in thier protection?


Descriptions are narrative in character. They usually indicate the presence of a failed protection effort in some fashion, though how it is indicated varies -- can't have things too clear now, can we....;-)

[Splitpersonality]

I wasn't here for capo I or II so forgive me if I'm an idiot to simple things like that.

[GeneralHankerchief]

I'll just say one thing:

If Yaropolk's death was a mafia-sanctioned hit, where's the calling card?

[Sigurd]

Will CountArach stop by at all? I am eagerly waiting to hear his version of the accusations against him and Yaropolk.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Also I was not part of that vig group. I sent in orders only for the protection group I was in. I was supposed to be but was not. I think seamus accidently replied to all of us by mistake and just ease for himself. I do not blame him. Also, Any questions for me will have to wait for about 12 hours. I am going to six flags all day so i wont be home till after the day phase.

For your collective information (and to stop repeated PMs about the same thing ad nauseum):

If player A names B, C, D, E, & F as partners in A's night action, the success/failure/inconclusive note will be sent to ALL those named even if they did not send in coordinated orders OR, for that matter, if they were away on a long weekend and unaware they were named at all. Thus some folks get results they have no idea they were part of and others receive multiple replies for the ones that named them and for the orders they actually sent in.

Thank you,
Your Host.

[Ironside]

I wasn't here for capo I or II so forgive me if I'm an idiot to simple things like that.

No worries. I'm not sure that even Seamus knows all the rules before someone asks about them (so he can make them, or guess about them). For example, it wasn't until I mentioned it the total lack of protection of pever that it was noted. And it's very little noise about it (fair enough, there has been a lot of development this day). The Stranger had such an odd death so I'm not so sure about that.

Sorry if mentioning old capo made it sound like common knowledge.

Time to log for today.

[Andres]

I'll just say one thing:

If Yaropolk's death was a mafia-sanctioned hit, where's the calling card?

I'm pretty sure that In Capo II, a Made gangster could kill with a Wiseguy without the kill being a mafia-sanctioned hit.

Maybe ATPG wanted to turn you into an unaffiliated Made gangster (Wiseguy gets Made after 2 or 3 kills, right?) and then offer you to join his family once the moment was there, because once you're a Made (affiliated or unaffiliated), you've reached the point of no return: you can't play townie anymore; and why would you follow the difficult path of staying a lonely unafilliated Made on the hitlist of a mafia family if you can join an already existing one?

[GeneralHankerchief]

Could he? TBH I don't remember. Do you remember seeing ballet slippers in the latter days of the Stracci last game?

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Will CountArach stop by at all? I am eagerly waiting to hear his version of the accusations against him and Yaropolk.

Isn't he from Oz? If so, he'd just about be getting to morning tea pretty soon.

[Andres]

Could he? TBH I don't remember. Do you remember seeing ballet slippers in the latter days of the Stracci last game?

Well, since Seamus is online and all right now:

Seamus, is it possible for a Made gangster, member of a family, to perform a hit together with a Wiseguy without the hit being mafia-sanctioned?