Chess - Game Thread [Concluded]

[Kagemusha]

If Kage has been around that long, how does he not know what ISO is?

I was away for some time in a galaxy far away called real life..My glory days of mafia dated at the period just after fire was invented.

[Csargo]

I was away for some time in a galaxy far away called real life..My glory days of mafia dated at the period just after fire was invented.

The good ole days.

[Fredwood]

I honestly don't even know what's going on anymore. I said something about Zack that I thought was true at the time, and said it wasn't that important in the grand scheme of things. Now I'm getting shit on for it, which is fine, but I'm not sure what I'm sure what you expect me to defend myself from.

Well I feel your defense against me, which wasn't really a push, was along the same lines. From what I was able to see you had a strong reaction to DP and pushed it hard, and Pizza did the heavy lifting as far as defending you, so I guess it's not actually a fair comparison. Just wasn't as smart ass as I remember is all.

[Fredwood]

Well I feel your defense against me, which wasn't really a push, was along the same lines. From what I was able to see you had a strong reaction to DP and pushed it hard, and Pizza did the heavy lifting as far as defending you, so I guess it's not actually a fair comparison. Just wasn't as smart ass as I remember is all.

I mean there was a little suss, but you also agreed with a faulty premise and kind of got in a bad situation. Has your stance on Zack changed?

[GeneralHankerchief]

Completely aside: Kage, you'll note the skin I used in my screenshots for the "how to ISO/other stuff" post that Slaan linked. :laugh4:

[Csargo]

I mean there was a little suss, but you also agreed with a faulty premise and kind of got in a bad situation. Has your stance on Zack changed?

I think he's been better, so yeah.

[Kagemusha]

Completely aside: Kage, you'll note the skin I used in my screenshots for the "how to ISO/other stuff" post that Slaan linked. :laugh4:

There are still few gentlemen with poise and taste around these parts.:grin:

[Winston Hughes]

Also, I dislike the way Winston has danced around the DP read. Doesn't seem to actually be digging in for a read there, just throwing out stuff based on how the winds sound -- look at 451/453, he instantly changes from dangling out the w/w read to just saying, I agree with slaan, it's v/v. Then in 456 his explanation of why people are townreading DP reads like he's trying to subtly dismiss it as bad reasoning.

I don't think it is bad reasoning. I'm townreading him for that reason myself, as I don't think he could easily simulate that awkward tone so well without risking going too far with it.

As for the w/w bit, I was very clear that it was unlikely.


Also on Winston -- he called Kage town for no reason afaict (maybe protecting a partner?),

I said the same about Manasi, and I stand by it. The read is pure gut, and I was totally clear on that. How you can read it as 'protecting', I have no idea. At best it could be taken as justification for not voting in that direction, and if it ever came to the point where I needed to justify such a decision then it would clearly be completely inadequate for the task.


and instead of giving actual reads on me/pizza has maintained a general aura of paranoia in that direction.

No paranoia here. My first 'serious' suspicions of you (the ones reinoe likes me for) weren't actually serious at all. Not to say they were completely inaccurate, but rather that there wasn't nearly enough there to distinguish from any given town game of yours.

With both you and pizza, my inclination has been to carry on publicly suspecting you for shallow reasons, whilst not making any real effort to actually read you properly.

Why?

If I told you that now, then it would defeat the object.


It seems like what scum winston thinks town Winston would do.

As I alluded to earlier, after the last game, this is going to be a problem for me as town in this and any future games with this crowd.

There's no way to defuse it, so I'm just going to have to try and double my efforts as town to compensate.

[Winston Hughes]

Ah, screw it. The above Zack/GH exchange looks really townie.

The truth is that Zack has been considerably more solving than I've seen from him as scum in the past.

I just wanted to keep him in the firing line because it yields interesting exchanges.

[Kagemusha]

I want to hear more from these people about the initial round:

FOS

6. El Barto
7. Montmorency
9. Cuthillius
13. Choxorn
16. Xiahou

[Winston Hughes]

Vote: Logic

Reviewing my reactions, he seems the closest thing to an actual scumread.

[GeneralHankerchief]

I want to hear more from these people about the initial round:

FOS

6. El Barto
7. Montmorency
9. Cuthillius
13. Choxorn
16. Xiahou



Kage, follow me onto Cuth, his vote on Dp was bad.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_caU5EZcrn7w/TKAhQ32GPsI/AAAAAAAAAL4/DJ462F926bk/s1600/aladdin_do_you_trust_me.jpg

[Kagemusha]

So be it. Unvote and Vote: Cuthillius

[Sooh]

Vote count:

Pizza (2): Zack, Csargo

Cuthillius (2): GH, Kagemusha

Zack (2): Montmorency, Reinoe,

Logic (2): Pizza, Winston Hughes

Reinoe (2): Dp101, Fredwood

Kagemusha (1): Logic

Csargo (1): Slaan

Not voting (5): El Barto, Cuthillius, Manasi, Choxorn, Xiahou,

With 17 players there are 9 to hammer.


EOD1:
https://pending.me.uk/cd/bla_1507413600.png

[Dp101]

Here for a bit. Zack and GH are even more solidly town. I agree that Cuth’s popin was mediocre but I’m not sure that that’s damming, from the sounds of his posts it seems like he wants to prioritise sleep over more mafia. Csargo is underwhelming to an extreme degree this game and I can’t tell why. I do not understand Kage, overall not comfortable really making a read on him.

[Kagemusha]

Kage, follow me onto Cuth, his vote on Dp was bad.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_caU5EZcrn7w/TKAhQ32GPsI/AAAAAAAAAL4/DJ462F926bk/s1600/aladdin_do_you_trust_me.jpg

Now that ive used this brave new ISO method for the first time to Cuth. He is smelling like rotten scum to me. Pushing, but not quite pushing, trying to connect a bit, making excuses..Best bet for scum so far.

[Choxorn]

These takes are pretty lukewarm.

That was the joke.


I haven't played chess since about the time that avatar was made. So, a decade or so? I've never considered myself very good. I'm capable of beating my parents and


Hmm. Why do you get a feeling that no one else seems to?


Logic's 10-minute take:
DP is town. DP is not teamed with Pizza, or Zack.

Csargo and Pizza are not teamed. One could be a wolf, but I don't think both.

Pizza feels really weird from normal. I can usually understand him a little, but here, he feels like he is playing 9 moves ahead to my 4. Not sure if he's on my team or not. I stand by my "seat of the pants" statement from earlier.

Cuth jumps in with some slight shade at DP. Is he suspicious of DP?

Kage shows up with what looks like a lazy vote on Slaan. Possibly a joke, but I think there's a more than reasonable chance that Kage is mafia.

Reinoe is the current target of DP's ire, and he is voting for me, (full disclosure, that that vote isn't being counted because it isn't bolded)

His vote on me looks like it stems only from Pizza's accusation. Not sure if sheeping, or he has other reasons for voting for me.

[b]Vote: Kagemusha[b/]


Don't like this post. Hard to say way, it just sorta rubs me the wrong way. Call it gut feeling, I guess.

[Logic]

logic -- what do you think of the townreads kage has been getting?
Zack
Unless I missed something, only GH and Winston have given Kage a townread.

They seem to know him, whereas I recognize his name. I'm not putting a ton of stock into other's town reads just yet, but this gulf between myself and those 2 tells me either I am way off in my suspicions, or should be looking closer at all 3.

[Montmorency]

Note: Winston and Zack feel better individually as my responses below indicate, but this just elevates the possibility of m/m.



I feel like you posted this exact pic as mafia before in a similar situation.

I feel like you were more active at least slightly in your self-defense in X-Com, I guess I should re-read that.



People re: Csargo, but you can't really judge by last game's performance. He's currently low-energy baseline for Csargo and that has tended to be town.

And that gif was deployed in the Pokemon game, right? He was v engaged scum.


That's exactly what I'm saying. I think if it was an honest push on dp, the people making it would be roping me in as well and painting us with the same brush. Since I've pretty much escaped heat for it, I think the more likely explanation is that it's a calculated push designed to go after the person more likely to be mislynched (sorry dp).

Either that or it's just a lazy read in the first place because it's not a real read to begin with. :yes:

I wouldn't be so sure. After all, you are not literally DP, so your similar beheavior (not identical!) is placed in a different context. [reinoe addressed this]



Winston


For starters, off the top of my head:

I've observed Zack being a somewhat relaxed version of his usual self, making me want to keep poking him until the cracks show.

I've observed pizza doing the kind of thing that tends to put him under suspicion on D1 as town, but with a certain knowingness about it that makes me question just how many layers he's working through.

I've observed Dp101 looking like his awkward townie self.

I've observed GH playing it cool, but giving hints of underlying reservation.

I agree with this.


This is pretty much exactly what I said about Csargo D1 in the last game, where he was town and I was scum.

Not sure how to feel about that.

You and Manasi were partners that game. But Manasi isn't you.


Either that, or he and Zack are scumbuddies (shades of Monty+pizza in Futuramafia?)

As long as Pizza and I are on the same team, we are undefeatable. Except in XCOM. And kind of French Revolution.

Kind of vulnerable against lone wolves, perhaps.


I've got positive vibes on both Manasi and Kage, both on first read and ISO.

Can't really explain why, though, so let's call it 'tonal' for the time being.

Kage's old-school nonchalant, but in old-school days that could easily be scum. In New Org days and ways, it's a towny presentation.


Just experience talking. As much as I want to keep pizza under pressure, I'm leery of actually lynching him because, historically, it's been a very bad move.

Don't lynch Pizza. He says the new rule of thumb is lynch him on D3, and if you couldn't lynch him that means you absolutely must lynch him D4. And if you can't lynch him D4, GG.



Very tempting, but there’s a tell he hasn’t dropped yet.

What's the tell that Pizza hasn't dropped yet?




No, I'm not saying logic is scum therefore zack is scum.

1. Logic is scum independently of Zack.

2. Zack has talked to everything that moves except logic. Therefore they're either masons/scum/neighbors. I stated this once already. Either way they're talking to each other OOT and thus have no reason to talk in thread.

3. Zack is scummy independent of Zack.

They are not necessarily scum together but somehow they are talking to each other.

Does this logic (lowercase) proceed specifically because Logic and Zack were not interacting and Zack had interacted with everyone else (not sure if that's actually the case at this point), or would it also apply to Logic? That is, if you analyzed all of Logic's interactions, would you find team-mates among the set of people he may not have interacted with?




I think reinoe could have sensed DP as someone he could push around and went for the throat. Kicking the puppy, as Renata and I think Monty have described it in the past. The level of being an abrasive, "I do what I want and I'm not nice about it!!!" feels overblown, like it's a performance. No person actually behaves like this unless it's an affectation.

Well, I think the DP analysis is insightful, but I don't know about "no person actually behaves like this"... Laughs aside, there was dicetosser in Representative Democracy. OTOH dicetosser was non-stop confrontational, so that consistency could be something to compare against reinoe later. As of now, reinoe fits well in the town-play mold of visitors like Severing Viper and a couple of other people.


I mean, I believe you gh

but I don't think you'd like about that regardless of your alignment

I guess it's just more about setting my expectations in this game for you. I got burned pretty hard in Pokemon, and outside of that I seem to always find something vaguely wolfy about you (e.g. the alias turbo where we called each other wolves until figuring it out at the very, very end).

I want to get better at reading you.

I tend to have a low-level desire to lynch GH, but I've gotten it wrong every time when that opportunity has presented itself. Then the one game I found the perfect tell, I couldn't seal the deal.

[El Barto]

So, apparently I have to read through five centuries of posts. !


Are we using chess notation?

[Winston Hughes]

Vote: El Barto

~:wave:

[Askthepizzaguy]

Hot Takes:

Dp101's posts are good

Csargo's are scummy

Zack, Pizza, Winston, and Monty all being themselves, more or less

Correct! Dunno about the last two, haven't analyzed them fully yet. That's a complicated variation and it could easily go either way.

Choxorn at +1

[Winston Hughes]

As the player with the best record of reading me correctly (not that it's ever helped you much, El Cassandra), I'm looking forward to your take on my current alignment.

[Askthepizzaguy]

WALLS OF TEXT ON PAGE FIVE :wall:

Zack's good, Csargo is good, DP is good.

Pizza slightly scummy for read on reinoe after they had only posted like 3 times sassing Zack.

Speaking of which I'm going to scum read reinoe for wall of texting.

Just because I think it'll make voxx mad.

INCORRECT!

[Askthepizzaguy]

I feel like Slaan is less comfortable than he should be (given that he's played with a lot of people in this game), so chances he randed wolf in his first org game pretty high.

Meh. This is a little iffy.

[Winston Hughes]

#Winstontoostrong

I am so screwed.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Why?

Hot take:

Reinoe is like Bobby Fischer. Good chess player but maybe not someone you wanna have a cup of tea and a long conversation with.

Less kibitzing with reinoe, very distracting.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Csargo's agreement with Rein doesn't feel right either, he agrees with the inaccurate part of his post but not the rest of it?
Correct!


Vote: Reinoe

INCORRECT!

[Askthepizzaguy]

how do u feel about the voxx alt zaccino

INCORRECT!

[Askthepizzaguy]

I demand something! Not quite sure what, but im a genius!I was a chessmaster even before i could grow beard and still i get no recognition even a single analyze for my vote for that insolent Slaan,who knows nothing about the finesse of the Org skins! This is scandalous!:crazy:

Correction, Kagemusha might actually have randed Bobby Fischer.

reinoe just more like Bobby Fischer.

Kagemusha, if you're a genius grandmaster, you agree. Vote Csargo or vote Logic.

[Winston Hughes]

How you feel about Cuth, pizza?

[Askthepizzaguy]

I haven't played chess since about the time that avatar was made. So, a decade or so? I've never considered myself very good. I'm capable of beating my parents and


Hmm. Why do you get a feeling that no one else seems to?


Logic's 10-minute take:
DP is town. DP is not teamed with Pizza, or Zack.

Csargo and Pizza are not teamed. One could be a wolf, but I don't think both.

Pizza feels really weird from normal. I can usually understand him a little, but here, he feels like he is playing 9 moves ahead to my 4. Not sure if he's on my team or not. I stand by my "seat of the pants" statement from earlier.

Cuth jumps in with some slight shade at DP. Is he suspicious of DP?

Kage shows up with what looks like a lazy vote on Slaan. Possibly a joke, but I think there's a more than reasonable chance that Kage is mafia.

Reinoe is the current target of DP's ire, and he is voting for me, (full disclosure, that that vote isn't being counted because it isn't bolded)

His vote on me looks like it stems only from Pizza's accusation. Not sure if sheeping, or he has other reasons for voting for me.

[b]Vote: Kagemusha[b/]

Logic definitely playing with the black pieces. Kagemusha playing with the white pieces much greater than rand imo. Not fully analyzed of course, but still solid. Logic almost certainly not on my chess team.

Pizza willing to sac a queen to checkmate Logic. Check Logic or check me, thunderdome. RAAAAAAAWWWRRRR!!!!!

[Askthepizzaguy]

Another one who cant understand what true strategy is.Truly illogical! Unvote and Vote: Logic . Though i will get you for your slander Slaan, sooner rather then later!

Correct!

Slaander? Hey, I'm the one that makes the bad puns around here.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Also, professional manasi readers, what’s her alignment this time. I know that apparently her meta is only to care about the game if she’s scum, but I’m not sure if this amount of posts from her counts as caring about the game. She feels more solvey than normal.

Little iffy, not solid. Question mark. Haven't checked it with a computer. Haven't read past this post since I'm old and lazy.

[Askthepizzaguy]

One seemingly random vote for something very minuscule, and not related to the game? Yeah, I thought it was a tell. Especially since I don't see Slaan as a wolf.

INCORRECT!

Logic at minus 9 now.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I'm only now starting to realise how good my impression of my town game was in the first day of that last game.

If I wasn't me, I'd suspect me right now.

This could prove problematic. :sweatdrop:

INCORRECT!

[El Barto]

Vote: El Barto

~:wave:

??

vote: Winston Hughes

[Askthepizzaguy]

I'm wary of being affected by pizza's mystical bit, but reading Logic's ISO suggests an underlying sense of control that wasn't there in previous games.

Correct!

Opportunistic, passive aggressive. Scummy. Position is very weak, RAAAAAAWWWRRR

[Winston Hughes]

??

vote: Winston Hughes

Never change.

Vote: Logic

[Askthepizzaguy]

Can we lynch pizza for all the chess references?

Not before move 3.

I'll have 2 captured black pieces by then, and uh.... y'all won't be lynching me then. Plus I'll be captured by the black pieces.

[Manasi]

WHY HASN'T GH MADE A READ ON ME UGGGGH

[Askthepizzaguy]

We still wouldnt have to deal with the chess references anymore so I'd call it an +EV lynch even if he is town

INCORRECT!

Also, disappointing. Slaan at -1 now.

[Askthepizzaguy]

weak

Vote: csargo

Solid, though. Keep Csargo in check and all is forgiven.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I'm currently at this part and I think both are town. Dp101 just seems overall towny in tone and reaction and is trying to figure things out (I really liked post #310 of his) and reinoe seems unreasonable aggressive and obstinate which I hardly see from scum that mostly just want to blend in.

Oh snap!

Slaan back, and better than before. +2 maybe. Solid!

Still, leaving your King exposed very iffy decision. Get your bishops and knights out and castle!

[Askthepizzaguy]

That last explanation would leave space for reinoe/Dp being w/w.

Not very likely, but I can just about imagine it being cooked up in scum chat.

INCORRECT!

My 1 o'clock class has better odds of beating Magnus!

[Askthepizzaguy]

chox can be extremely pure as scum, so I certainly wouldn't jump to call him town by any kind of tonal read.

Chox needs to bus all the black pieces and then not get murdered, that might be your big tell. Otherwise I think he's on a good square for now.

Also if he ever lynches me this game, he's 100 percent scum.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I read his iso. To me, it looks more like a townie toeing the waters on a new group of people than someone with hidden information.


Winston, this... looks odd. It sounds to me like a willingness to lynch pizza, but an admission that you know he's town.

INCORRECT AND EXTREMELY SUSPECT!!!!

Passive aggression! Checkmate Logic today or leave your King exposed! Those are your options, class.

[Winston Hughes]

INCORRECT!

My 1 o'clock class has better odds of beating Magnus!

Yeah, it's been said.

Guess that was old-fashioned paranoiac Winston sneaking into my shiny new-fangled game.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Just experience talking. As much as I want to keep pizza under pressure, I'm leery of actually lynching him because, historically, it's been a very bad move.

Capture that piece, Winston. It's not safe. Also don't talk to your opponent during the game!

[Askthepizzaguy]

Not telling. Just to be obstinate.

Correct!

No kibitzing with reinoe. Focus, class. If you want to beat your head against a brick wall by all means, do it outside the chess center.

reinoe plays at his own tempo, it would seem. Snap read.

reinoe still solid. Don't worry about him yet, maybe not ever.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Who is voxx?

Not you, that's for sure.

+3 still, though. Solid!

[Askthepizzaguy]

I don't care about your suss on Logic aside from the fact that you're not pushing him.

Bam!


My issue is you pushing Zack over logic because "Zack" didn't talk to logic. You're saying logic is scum, therefore Zack is scum because he's avoiding logic. Well get logic lynched first

Correct!


then go after Zack.

INCORRECT!

[Winston Hughes]

Capture that piece, Winston. It's not safe.

I do so hate it when I end up sheeping you. Especially when you turn out to be right.

It's even worse than when I call you as scum and nobody listens.


Also don't talk to your opponent during the game!

Awww. Where's the fun in that?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Townreading for your 113.

"THIRD PARTY"? What. How and why would you come to that conclusion.

Monty always seems to act like he's not playing with either the white or the black pieces.

Maybe he's more interested in chinese checkers? Still, more a comment about his persona than a serious suggestion he's actually a third party, in my analysis. Otherwise it'd be a little iffy and I don't believe that.

[Winston Hughes]

reinoe still solid. Don't worry about him yet, maybe not ever.

That's where you had me last game.

Be advised later readers: if pizza is confirmed as frighteningly prescient town, this might be his blindspot.

[Kagemusha]

Logic and Cuth, checkmate? Can it be so easy? Askthepizzaguy

[Askthepizzaguy]

Alright and I'm done catching up, yay. Overall impressions so far:

1. GH: Seems ok solvey but I know he can fake that as scum so he's just null in my book. Imo he has to be judged by his success in game and not by how towny he seems from posts alone.

+1, maybe +2. Computer says it's not a draw. Need more time to fully analyze probably but seems okay on a first glance.


2. Csargo: Didnt really like most of what he wrote, an early weird read that he immediatly backpaddled on.. wouldnt mind a lynch here today

BAM! Solid. You agree.


3. dp101: Very towny from tone and AtE. From the comments I saw about him here he doesnt seem to be considered as the greatest player so him faking his frustration seems very unlikely

Correct, although I feel like he's going to be a great player. He's just young, that's all. Needs more experience being lied to and fooled so he doesn't have his board upside down so often.


4. Pizza: ... I hope he stops with the rpg stuff or I'd consider vigging him if I had access to a vig.

On a really good day, I still couldn't beat Magnus. I'm more likely to do this, though.

Waste of a vig, I'm always getting murdered or put in check by move 3.


5. Fredwood: Seems alright so far, not many posts but focused on solving the game.

Looks good.


6. El Barto: no poster

Slow start, anxious to see his middlegame, but very prepared to wait.


7. Montmorency: ... I'd call him toneally scummish atm.. there were alot of posts that feel off a bit. #119 akwardly trying to insert himself in our nonsense videogame discussion, his push on the 'reaction test' thingy (which I don't understand but I also don't care much), #250 is weird...

Seems like he's playing with the white pieces, but I haven't seen which board everyone is playing on yet or who their opponents are.


8. Zack: Actually don't have anything AI on him despite his many posts. The more memorable stuff was his reactions to being townread but thats just NAI in my book (since I sometimes do the same as both town and scum)

Nah, solid. Zack at plus 7 maybe. Clear differences between this and his scum game, which he doesn't usually demonstrate.


9. Cuthillius: weak pop in

Should be fine.


10. Manasi: Manasi seemingly being solvey gives me the creeps. Also weird point made on my, how was I uncomfortable? Cautions sure being mostly w/ new folk but I didnt feel uncomfortable. Maybe a bit drunk but that's neither here nor there

Play seems calculated, but that's not the Manasi I'm familiar with.


11. Slaan: lock goat

Maybe.


12. Reinoe: The more I think about the more null she is. I don't think it very likely that her antagonizing attitude is wolfy but then again I don't see why not... given that its an alt an all. Maybe someone wants to try out a new strategy.

Not null, solid. Ignore who this is, distracting.


13. Choxorn: Who?

Possibly good. Needs to check Csargo and Logic back to back. Then pretty good.


14. Winston Hughes: Almost same as Zack though I don't recall anything he said in regards to the game.

Endgame threat or strong checkmating piece. Needs to be developed.


15. Logic: Didnt start solving really so far, a slight post on Kagemusha, a townread on me (which makes him scum ;))... I expect more!

Expect him to be checkmated.


16. Xiahou: ...

Xiahou might even know who I'm roleplaying as, if he likes looking at chess stuff online. I could also probably do a good agadamator or suren or matojelic, it just so happens I know exactly who this guy I randed is and he's fucking amazing. Best rand ever. Solid! BAM! Haven't enjoyed myself more since randing Bowser.

Anxious to see Xiahou this game. My guess is this is going to be a very enthusiastic game for him and I'm inclined to put on a good show for him regardless of his alignment. He doesn't play that often, so I'm hoping he gets all these jokes.


17. Kagemusha: Well his vote on me and then complaining that noone commented on it felt off... curious where he goes from here.

Normal playing style for Kagemusha. Solid!

[Askthepizzaguy]

Vote: Cuth

Computer says all zeroes on this. No idea, but I think this might be a difficult draw. Not a big fan but I don't have a good refutation. I'll see how it goes.

Better would be GH captures Logic on g8, winning a queen.

[Zack]

don't really understand how logic has drawn so much heat

far as I can tell, he is being standard logic, seems like an easy mislynch waiting to happen

[Askthepizzaguy]

Everyone note it down: If GH mislynches me kill GH :)

This post makes me think Slaan is playing with the white pieces. No infiltration of the white camp detected here.

This move is rarely seen from black's perspective, only when black has initiative.

[Askthepizzaguy]

If Kage has been around that long, how does he not know what ISO is?

Picking at, to undermine and sow doubt / discredit. Not genuine suspicion from white's perspective.

Very legitimately suspicious.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I feel like you were more active at least slightly in your self-defense in X-Com, I guess I should re-read that.

Highly outside of his usual playing style, legitimately never seen anything like that game from him before, by an order of magnitude. Not once in more years than I've been playing.

Unlikely to be repeated. Suspicious independent of the large differences between the two games, he was never going to replicate it even if he ended up with the white pieces.

Compare to your champs game. Not gonna repeat, not alignment indicative.

[Zack]

don't really understand how logic has drawn so much heat

far as I can tell, he is being standard logic, seems like an easy mislynch waiting to happen

come to think of it, applies to csargo too

pizza going after the lowest hanging fruit he can find

[Askthepizzaguy]

Oh good, the iso only works for one day phase.

Tip from a GM used to playing in the USA:

Ignore mode everyone but the person you're isoing. Then read the thread. Unignore when done.

That's how you GM iso on the org. Pain in the neck, but it's where I call home, so I've adapted to play here.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Ah, screw it. The above Zack/GH exchange looks really townie.

The truth is that Zack has been considerably more solving than I've seen from him as scum in the past.

I just wanted to keep him in the firing line because it yields interesting exchanges.

Correct! Inaccurate but playing with white pieces and doing his best, imo.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Vote: Logic

Reviewing my reactions, he seems the closest thing to an actual scumread.

+10

SOLID

[Askthepizzaguy]

Here for a bit. Zack and GH are even more solidly town. I agree that Cuth’s popin was mediocre but I’m not sure that that’s damming, from the sounds of his posts it seems like he wants to prioritise sleep over more mafia. Csargo is underwhelming to an extreme degree this game and I can’t tell why. I do not understand Kage, overall not comfortable really making a read on him.

Correct!

Also correct!

He will pretend to be slightly annoyed and appeal to your emotion and discredit himself, as he has done so far. This is within his normal style, but what's missing from all his posts so far: Having fun.

Lost his sense of humor when he randed the black pieces. Put him out of his misery!!! Make him cry!

[Askthepizzaguy]

Now that ive used this brave new ISO method for the first time to Cuth. He is smelling like rotten scum to me. Pushing, but not quite pushing, trying to connect a bit, making excuses..Best bet for scum so far.

Cuth often hangs a piece. Not alignment indicative.

[Zack]

Correct!

Also correct!

He will pretend to be slightly annoyed and appeal to your emotion and discredit himself, as he has done so far. This is within his normal style, but what's missing from all his posts so far: Having fun.

Lost his sense of humor when he randed the black pieces. Put him out of his misery!!! Make him cry!

He seemed to be having plenty of fun as a wolf in Pokemon.

[Askthepizzaguy]

re: Logic


Don't like this post. Hard to say way, it just sorta rubs me the wrong way. Call it gut feeling, I guess.

Trap it! Coordinate and trap this piece, it is winnable, and that will bust this game wide open, everyone!

[Askthepizzaguy]

@Zack (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=59017)
Unless I missed something, only GH and Winston have given Kage a townread.

They seem to know him, whereas I recognize his name. I'm not putting a ton of stock into other's town reads just yet, but this gulf between myself and those 2 tells me either I am way off in my suspicions, or should be looking closer at all 3.

Logic is trapped and unable to move very much. All that's left is to attack the piece until it runs out of space, now.

I can read Logic better than all of you guys, imo. He was lock town last time and he's midnight black here.

[Askthepizzaguy]

How you feel about Cuth, pizza?

Win possible but seems unlikely if we attack that piece.

[Dp101]

It should be illegal for Pizza to be having this much fun, this is obscene.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Never change.

Vote: Logic

Fantastic!

[Slaan]

INCORRECT!

Also, disappointing. Slaan at -1 now.

Just in case it wasnt clear: I was joking when I wanted to kill pizza for his chess shenanigans.

Other than that I'd even more pizza to my slightly townish ppl after his last posts, seemed to be solvy and not being afraid to make reads even though there is nothing spicy in it. Not entirely getting the Logic push... but seems alright for now.

[Askthepizzaguy]

WHY HASN'T GH MADE A READ ON ME UGGGGH

Your opening is passive. Not shaping up to be a very interesting position, looks weak.

[Zack]

can you stop spamming please

just catch up and summarize

don't need you to say the same thing ten different times whenever you see a quote mentioning csargo or logic

[El Barto]

As the player with the best record of reading me correctly (not that it's ever helped you much, El Cassandra), I'm looking forward to your take on my current alignment.
Hmmm…

Softclaim: Town

vote: pizza
This makes you look bad. Except for the voting pizza part.

Never change.

Vote: Logic
Anyway, I might just stick by my tenets and not read D1, since pizza's posts must be 1/3 or more of the total and they happen in strings of 6 to 12 units because he can't multiquote even when there's a postcount limit.

WHY HASN'T GH MADE A READ ON ME UGGGGH
Hey there, your avatar tells me you're playing… black?

[Kagemusha]

can you stop spamming please

just catch up and summarize

don't need you to say the same thing ten different times whenever you see a quote mentioning csargo or logic

Maybe he is not spoon feeding you?:shrug:

[Zack]

Hmmm…

This makes you look bad. Except for the voting pizza part.

Anyway, I might just stick by my tenets and not read D1, since pizza's posts must be 1/3 or more of the total and they happen in strings of 6 to 12 units because he can't multiquote even when there's a postcount limit.

Hey there, your avatar tells me you're playing… black?

:stare:

[Zack]

Maybe he is not spoon feeding you?:shrug:
I don't remember complaining that coming up with my own opinions is hard and that he should tell me my reads.

That was you.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I do so hate it when I end up sheeping you. Especially when you turn out to be right.

I know. I was 100 percent just gonna focus on rping this guy, and I honestly didn't even give a shit about even playing a good game.

Logic exposed himself quickly and I was very sure, I had to say something. Csargo's reaction and subsequent posts indicate badly.

Also several people playing very well and readably. I'm still gonna rp and I don't care that much if I'm wrong but this opening is good for white so I'm gonna take it.

I was this ready to coast until d2, though. I usually don't do well on d1 but I think this isn't that game. Sorry to hog some of the spotlight or ninja you on some conclusions. Less fun if you didn't think of it first.


Awww. Where's the fun in that?

Good point.

I'll allow it if it's a casual game. Just do more trash talking. Solid!

[El Barto]

Slow start, anxious to see his middlegame, but very prepared to wait.
Take a chair.

:stare:
Don't stare, it's rude.

[Slaan]

can you stop spamming please

just catch up and summarize

don't need you to say the same thing ten different times whenever you see a quote mentioning csargo or logic

Guy with 140 posts complaining that guy with 110 posts is spamming too much

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/asdslk.gif

(though I agree that he hasnt repeat it as much^^)

[Dp101]

I wonder if Pizza will post less if I give in and sheep him Vote: Logic

[Kagemusha]

I don't remember complaining that coming up with my own opinions is hard and that he should tell me my reads.

That was you.


I'm not going to spoonfeed it to you

toodles Sure.:laugh4:

[Askthepizzaguy]

That's where you had me last game.

Be advised later readers: if pizza is confirmed as frighteningly prescient town, this might be his blindspot.

He's only at +3 for a reason. Don't think this is a repeat of that, though. I think I can read reinoe based on his posts and personality.

The stuff he's not saying he's not saying it because he's kind of like Awa in game 11 in a certain sense, this is what he thinks is correct.

It's too close to his actual nature to be faked imo. If he's scum he is not indicating it yet in any way you can detect.

Yeah it's a risk to lock the slot town, but it's a small one. Play the odds.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Logic and Cuth, checkmate? Can it be so easy? @Askthepizzaguy (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=23872)

Toss Manasi in there as a distant third, maybe. Heart just isn't in it from any of these three.

Might have a fourth or a third party (in chess???) but be vigilant. Lock town reads should be very difficult to get this game.

If I can get the ones who indicate early, I'll still be too dead to find the really poker faced scums.

[Dp101]

He's only at +3 for a reason. Don't think this is a repeat of that, though. I think I can read reinoe based on his posts and personality.

The stuff he's not saying he's not saying it because he's kind of like Awa in game 11 in a certain sense, this is what he thinks is correct.

It's too close to his actual nature to be faked imo. If he's scum he is not indicating it yet in any way you can detect.

Yeah it's a risk to lock the slot town, but it's a small one. Play the odds.

So you know who they are then?

[Slaan]

(though I agree that he shouldnt repeat it as much^^)

edited

[Zack]

Guy with 140 posts complaining that guy with 110 posts is spamming too much

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/asdslk.gif

(though I agree that he hasnt repeat it as much^^)

I was going back and forth with people

not the same as commenting on every post during a thread catch up

[El Barto]

Guy with 140 posts complaining that guy with 110 posts is spamming too much
Ay caramba, that was spot on!

I wonder if Pizza will post less if I give in and sheep him Vote: Logic
Is everyone who votes for Logic just sheeping the pizzaman?

[Slaan]

Yes I know what you mean, just couldnt let this chance for a cheap shot slip by.

[Askthepizzaguy]

don't really understand how logic has drawn so much heat

far as I can tell, he is being standard logic, seems like an easy mislynch waiting to happen

Intent is all wrong, and his aggression is all of the passive kind. He's also avoiding when he would normally confront or address.

Very big blunder in his opening. Not a mislynch at all.

[Zack]

Intent is all wrong, and his aggression is all of the passive kind. He's also avoiding when he would normally confront or address.

Very big blunder in his opening. Not a mislynch at all.

what blunder in his opening

he talked about video games

I think your odds of being right are exactly 25%

[Slaan]

Toss Manasi in there as a distant third, maybe. Heart just isn't in it from any of these three.

Might have a fourth or a third party (in chess???) but be vigilant. Lock town reads should be very difficult to get this game.

If I can get the ones who indicate early, I'll still be too dead to find the really poker faced scums.

So where is Csargo? From the way you talked about him so far I'm suprised you'd consider manasi apparently above him in your checkmate list... even Cuth is weird, didnt you say his short pop in is rather NAI?

[Askthepizzaguy]

come to think of it, applies to csargo too

pizza going after the lowest hanging fruit he can find

INCORRECT!

Pizza 100 percent solid. Playing with the white pieces. Zack is misplaced on the wrong side of the board.

[Manasi]

This thread has gotten really difficult to read.

Vote: Askthepizzaguy

[El Barto]

I was going back and forth with people

not the same as commenting on every post during a thread catch up
see #580 for a clear example

[El Barto]

This thread has gotten really difficult to read.

Vote: Askthepizzaguy
…??

[Sooh]

Vote count:

Pizza (3): Zack, Csargo, Manasi

Cuthillius (2): GH, Kagemusha

Zack (2): Montmorency, Reinoe,

Logic (3): Pizza, Winston Hughes, Dp101

Reinoe (1): Fredwood

Kagemusha (1): Logic

Csargo (1): Slaan

Winston Hughes (1): El Barto

Not voting (3): Cuthillius, Choxorn, Xiahou,

With 17 players there are 9 to hammer.


EOD1:
https://pending.me.uk/cd/bla_1507413600.png

[Askthepizzaguy]

He seemed to be having plenty of fun as a wolf in Pokemon.

Didn't want to rand wolf this time, it seems.

Shook based on who is the white pieces, perhaps. Not in the mood. Happens. I enjoy some games as scum, but I didn't wanna rand wolf this game.

[Askthepizzaguy]

It should be illegal for Pizza to be having this much fun, this is obscene.

Correct!

[Zack]

Vote: El Barto

If you're not going to do anything except take side shots, you can die.

[Manasi]

Damn what a nice wagon.

Hey Barto. What's your impression of the game thus far?

[Winston Hughes]

I was going back and forth with people

not the same as commenting on every post during a thread catch up

Not the same, but I've found both helpful here, you for the content generation and pizza for the analytical cross-check.

[El Barto]

Vote: El Barto

If you're not going to do anything except take side shots, you can die.
vote: Zack

Do you want me to read the first five hundred posts, half of which is you and pizza, or not?

You hypocrite!

And yes, I'm third on the bandwaggon. Oppan Barto style!

[El Barto]

Damn what a nice wagon.

Hey Barto. What's your impression of the game thus far?
Ay caramba, it's a danged whirlwind.

[Zack]

vote: Zack

Do you want me to read the first five hundred posts, half of which is you and pizza, or not?

You hypocrite!

And yes, I'm third on the bandwaggon. Oppan Barto style!

yes

disinterest in figuring things out is a wolf tell of yours

[Askthepizzaguy]

I wonder if Pizza will post less if I give in and sheep him Vote: Logic

Correct!

[Dp101]

vote: Zack

Do you want me to read the first five hundred posts, half of which is you and pizza, or not?

You hypocrite!

And yes, I'm third on the bandwaggon. Oppan Barto style!

Hey, there are some important bits, I had a decent fight. You could just use novice’s tool to collapse all posts by Pizza and Zack so you can read everything else to make it easier to get through.

[Manasi]

Ay caramba, it's a danged whirlwind.

You think so?

Hm.

I thought it was fine up until a few weeks ago.


Wolfy avatar change, I know.

[Askthepizzaguy]

So you know who they are then?

I have a wild guess. There's only maybe 2 or 3 people who have ever played with this uncooperative stubborn style who would have made their way here.

I can be wrong but I am right about this, they're not gonna change. Find the scums and you won't need to worry about him.

This is also a huge danger of trapping white pieces behind another piece that can't move. Dont. Do not do this. Focus on where you can move.

We need to coordinate as best we can under the circumstances.

[Zack]

I thought you said arcade fire was not that great manasi

[Manasi]

I thought you said arcade fire was not that great manasi

Yeah they aren't, but this album cover is :flame: :flame: :flame:

[Dp101]

I have a wild guess. There's only maybe 2 or 3 people who have ever played with this uncooperative stubborn style who would have made their way here.

I can be wrong but I am right about this, they're not gonna change. Find the scums and you won't need to worry about him.

This is also a huge danger of trapping white pieces behind another piece that can't move. Dont. Do not do this. Focus on where you can move.

We need to coordinate as best we can under the circumstances.

Well that sounds like this game will be extremely fun for me.

[Askthepizzaguy]

So where is Csargo? From the way you talked about him so far I'm suprised you'd consider manasi apparently above him in your checkmate list... even Cuth is weird, didnt you say his short pop in is rather NAI?

I misread this post, thought it said Csargo and Logic:


Logic and Cuth, checkmate? Can it be so easy? @Askthepizzaguy (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=23872)

To be clear I do NOT have that opinion on Cuth as of yet.

[Askthepizzaguy]

This thread has gotten really difficult to read.

Vote: Askthepizzaguy

Manasi at -4 now.

[Slaan]

K about the Csargo/Cutch mixup. You seem to have caught up now pizza, want to give us your entire mixtape with all +/-'s?

[El Barto]

yes

disinterest in figuring things out is a wolf tell of yours
This isn't a werewolf game. Please get your terminology right.

And it is Day One.

Also, I'm outposting choxorn, Cuthillius and Fredwood by now, but you ain't bitchin' bout them, boy.

You think so?

Hm.

I thought it was fine up until a few weeks ago.
We can always agree that you're wrong.

Wolfy avatar change, I know.
Yes, changing avatars during a game is a hard scumtell.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I get paid by the hour, and my hour is up.

I'm gonna go silent now to give the room some air, also drink some Perrier, because man, all this shouting and threatening all of black's pieces makes me parched.

You have questions for me, post a comment or follow me on Twitter and Instagram. I'll get back to you or I won't.

[Zack]

This isn't a werewolf game. Please get your terminology right.

And it is Day One.

Also, I'm outposting choxorn, Cuthillius and Fredwood by now, but you ain't bitchin' bout them, boy.

We can always agree that you're wrong.

Yes, changing avatars during a game is a hard scumtell.

I didn't say anything about number of posts

and I am not exactly handing out glowing praise to chox and cuth

don't like this response

[Slaan]

This isn't a werewolf game. Please get your terminology right.

Srsly?


And it is Day One.

Also, I'm outposting choxorn, Cuthillius and Fredwood by now, but you ain't bitchin' bout them, boy.

Fredwood came in and gave a good long post w/ reads. You came in and delivered nothing so far... and in case you havent noticed Cuth is getting partly scumread for his pop in as well.

The problem is that you are in the thread right now and it seems like you don't want to play.

[Askthepizzaguy]

K about the Csargo/Cutch mixup. You seem to have caught up now pizza, want to give us your entire mixtape with all +/-'s?

Yeah off the cuff.

Will do because you're asking me for it.

To summarize my position, and this is rough and sloppy and doesn't contain jokes:

White pieces, top 6 are my town until they get kicked out, rest are prospects for town I am not solid on, need more analysis. In this order top down

1. Pizza
2. Zack
3. reinoe
4. dp101
5. Winston
6. GH
-----------
7. choxorn
8. Slaan
9. Kage
10. Monty

Unknown:
Xiahou, probably town by odds, if I had to guess the slot based on reading the room.
Cuth, guess town. Not sure though.
Fredwood, no idea. Let's see later.
Barto, guess wolf if I had to find a fourth.

Black pieces:
1. Logic, easily
2. There is definitely either one or two black pieces inside Csargo and Manasi.

Get all three and you'll get two black pieces minimum, possibly GG. Start with Logic.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I didn't say anything about number of posts

and I am not exactly handing out glowing praise to chox and cuth

don't like this response

We agree.

Spamming stops now. Starts again when I get my paycheck.

[El Barto]

don't like this response

Srsly?
It's Day One. When I came in I found people voting for me. The standard answer is to vote for them.

Fredwood came in and gave a good long post w/ reads. You came in and delivered nothing so far... and in case you havent noticed Cuth is getting partly scumread for his pop in as well.

The problem is that you are in the thread right now and it seems like you don't want to play.
I suppose I'll eventually find Fredwood's post in there then. !

[Askthepizzaguy]

I would like more Fredwood in my life. Personal request for moar of the teal man so I can find a spot for you in my crowded town.

Less Zack and Pizza, more Fred.

[Manasi]

I don't understand what draws the parallel between myself and csargo

[El Barto]

I don't understand what draws the parallel between myself and csargo
A quick read tells me you both post in the same font. Tomorrow I should be able to give you more.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I don't understand what draws the parallel between myself and csargo

You're both not playing on my team. That's about it. Also you're both missing joie de vivre. I can't speak French but the guy I'm roleplaying can on occasion, so now I have that power.

If you want, you can play like a French player and surrender now. I won't hold it against you. Black resigns, with advantage, exclam! Computer even recommends resigns.

[El Barto]

You're both not playing on my team. That's about it. Also you're both missing joie de vivre. I can't speak French but the guy I'm roleplaying can on occasion, so now I have that power.

If you want, you can play like a French player and surrender now. I won't hold it against you. Black resigns, with advantage, exclam! Computer even recommends resigns.
You can always wait until the other side makes a blunder.

For my part, I can understand the language of my character, but with me that's not exactly indicative, is it?

[reinoe]

A quick read tells me you both post in the same font. Tomorrow I should be able to give you more.
lol

UNVOTE: ZACK

VOTE: EL BARTO

[Askthepizzaguy]

ok, I can see what you're saying about kage, makes me feel a lot better about him. I vaguely remember some game where Pizza caught him d1, then screamed about it the whole game after that ... ? @Askthepizzaguy (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=23872) do you remember what game this was? I don't think there were flips if that helps, might have been vanilla~ish.

disagree on the others. slaan seems fine, maybe he's a good wolf but not worth pursuing this early based on just paranoia. In my experience, having low thread involvement is not alignment-indicate for fred and fairly typical

During re-read I caught this. Sorry for not responding initially.

This was the Animus game, something Beskar hosted based off of Assassin's Creed I believe. I had him dead to rights. He was catchable early that game. His scum game and town game are both good but like anyone he's got some bad games.

[Askthepizzaguy]

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?133476-Visions-of-the-Animus-In-Session

Pretty sure this is what you were thinkin of.

[Askthepizzaguy]

OMG that was the game where I decided that Kagemusha was guilty.... of being sexy!

That's the origin of the sexy Kagemusha thing. I've been saying it to him every year and in basically every game since.

Ravishing, that man was. Sometimes the scummiest people are the ones you love.

[Zack]

You kinda already answered the implied question by calling kage town

Is that behavior based out just voting with you based?

[Askthepizzaguy]

lol

UNVOTE: ZACK

VOTE: EL BARTO

reinoe votes EB Double exclam!!

[Dp101]

lol

UNVOTE: ZACK

VOTE: EL BARTO

I like you far more today than yesterday.

[Askthepizzaguy]

@ Zack


Another one who cant understand what true strategy is.Truly illogical! Unvote and Vote: Logic . Though i will get you for your slander Slaan, sooner rather then later!

Change from rvs vote to real vote based on seemingly real suspicion as indicated in the forthcoming posts:


At least it got you to talk and Logic to vote. Is there something else we can do at the moment? Get people to talk and start drawing lines into thin air in order to find associations later? In the past Ive tried to play old style as town only observing at the start and got myself mis lynched enough times for lurking. So her i am talking. Lets talk.:yes:

This is what I know of Kagemusha's old town process. It is very Org from like 3 years ago, very rvs but intending to get the game rolling based off of that, as opposed to their being joke votes. The votes are random and paired with jokes but intended to put random pressure and hopefully hit a scum, limit the length of time of unserious votes and unproductive talk. This matches all of his process for a serious, non-tiny game where he's not playing very casually.


I only know the style of few people playing. This morning when i went to through the thread, mostly it is just nonsense. Csargo seems like Csargo. So does GH. Pizza seems to be claiming some sort of ultimate knowledge which is completely normal for him. Choxorn drops by and does the minimum and you and Manasi seem to have some sort of sweet talking going on, which i think i recall also from earlier games. DP seems like he is on the verge of meltdown when it comes to mafia, which i can relate to quite well. I could not get any reaction from Slaan with my vote, which is too early for me to analyze. Logic seemed to be eager to react to my sudden activity, but thats about it. What have you observed so far? It would be lot easier to read it through one post then from myriad of posts.

Lot of depth here. Kagemusha doesn't clear the hurdle when asked, he soars over it. That always gets you some town points.


And where does the thought of Slaan not being a wolf stems from? Do you know him from other games/forums or what are you basing on that assumption?

Solving and pointed. I think Logic is in an uncomfortable position and can't really justify his Slaan read. So he made an oops here and Kage is all over it.


Do not worry. I run a company for a living, not a graphic designer per se. Hopefully you turn out to be at least as good mafia player as i am a forum skin maker.:rolleyes: Welcome to the Org.:bow:

Cant get any scummyness out of you but i have to wonder how come Logic does not want to talk about why he thinks you are not scum. Maybe he doesnt like to to become too involved in the thread?

Vote for Slaan was not based on the game but was intended to put pressure there. Kage didn't find anything scummy about Slaan yet, and did see something odd about Logic. His votes, reasons, questions, and process is all in the green zone.

Can he fake this? Sure, he's under no pressure and he's one of the all time oldie greats at being a scum. Think he doesn't necessarily make a blunder I can see yet.

But, he's also town-telling enough to be put into town consideration, serious consideration.

It's only not higher because it can be hiding in a good defensible spot. I can't lock it in yet. Still I like what I see.

[El Barto]

lol

UNVOTE: ZACK

VOTE: EL BARTO
You're just voting for an easy target.

Someone always bites, sheesh.

See you tomorrow.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I read his iso. To me, it looks more like a townie toeing the waters on a new group of people than someone with hidden information.

By contrast, this is Logic barely clearing a hurdle Kage put in his path.

That lack of depth and generic thought is too thin for him, it doesn't match the earlier comment. "I don't see Slaan as a wolf" is too definitive in my opinion to be paired with the question of why answered by "He looks like a townie in a new group of people".

That's paper thin. As is his entire facade. Lynch Logic today always.

[Montmorency]

what blunder in his opening

he talked about video games

I think your odds of being right are exactly 25%

So you think there are 4 scum and Logic is ~rand?

Honestly, Pizza is close to reprising his XCOM performance. Pizza read Logic very well last game, when he made independent stands and reached out to people (though Logic may have a tendency as town to decline in confidence over time). I can't give any good reasons not to lynch Logic, but Csargo - Pizza, do you remember Jabbz' Sorcery game? Csargo was similarly low-energy and recalcitrant, even continuously under pressure as a POE candidate. Maybe he's just not into it?


This thread has gotten really difficult to read.

Vote: Askthepizzaguy

I think Manasi spends a fair amount of time talking about her teammates as scum. She hasn't so far, and a vote on Pizza now is tactically useless. So she's not scum unless the current top candidates are totally wrong - but even then I doubt she fools around this way.


yes

disinterest in figuring things out is a wolf tell of yours

He's only been here a few posts. Rather early to say, which is one legit complaint against Pizza's certainty on Logic, at least earlier on.


I like you far more today than yesterday.

It's a standard reaction to Barto by newcomers, a good sign here because an aggressive no-nonsense character tends to be hostile to Barto at first glance.



Wait a sec, Pizza, you didn't review my wall from a little while back.

[Askthepizzaguy]

He's not a huge talker, but he has actual thoughts he can defend with reasoning, offered freely and specifically, when he's town.

It looks similar but it's the difference between Logic and a cardboard cutout of Logic. Take your picture with him, you won't see him again after today.

[Slaan]

lol

UNVOTE: ZACK

VOTE: EL BARTO

Wait you switch a legit readvote on Zack to a jokevote on Barto?

[Zack]

So you think there are 4 scum and Logic is ~rand?
yes


Honestly, Pizza is close to reprising his XCOM performance. Pizza read Logic very well last game, when he made independent stands and reached out to people (though Logic may have a tendency as town to decline in confidence over time). I can't give any good reasons not to lynch Logic, but Csargo - Pizza, do you remember Jabbz' Sorcery game? Csargo was similarly low-energy and recalcitrant, even continuously under pressure as a POE candidate. Maybe he's just not into it?
who do you want to lynch rn?



I think Manasi spends a fair amount of time talking about her teammates as scum. She hasn't so far, and a vote on Pizza now is tactically useless. So she's not scum unless the current top candidates are totally wrong - but even then I doubt she fools around this way.
???



He's only been here a few posts. Rather early to say, which is one legit complaint against Pizza's certainty on Logic, at least earlier on.
when I was a wolf with him, literally all he would do is pop in, complain the number of posts, do nothing useful, and leave. Sound familiar?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Wait a sec, Pizza, you didn't review my wall from a little while back.

I admittedly skimmed it.

I have you in a pseudotown limbo state where I think if I put in the work I'd be able to see why you're townie, but not conclusively because when is it ever conclusive with you, and you're tough that way. And putting in 30-60 minutes on you just to have a kinda town read on you just... feels wasteful.

You post enough where sorting you will be easier after there's a vote record for you. Your tone in either alignment and walls look so similar. You're a very good wolf. I don't think I'll be alive at the point where I'd be able to read you conclusively one way or the other. Truth be told I could have 4 days of solid work from you and I'm not sure.

You're not deviating strongly from where I'd expect you to be. Zack actually has more solving content and even posts than I feel he typically does. That's being said even with the assumption that he can do this as scum and I've seen it happen. I don't think he'll do it every game he rands scum. His style is too easy to replicate with fewer posts. Basically he's putting himself through a big hassle voluntarily, clearing the hurdle and thensome.

Gotta give him town points for WIM but it isn't just that, it can never be just that with Zack. I even think he could be chasing scums now.

My time and energy was just more productively spent elsewhere in that moment, with your wall. I'll go look again now tho.

[Zack]

By contrast, this is Logic barely clearing a hurdle Kage put in his path.

That lack of depth and generic thought is too thin for him, it doesn't match the earlier comment. "I don't see Slaan as a wolf" is too definitive in my opinion to be paired with the question of why answered by "He looks like a townie in a new group of people".

That's paper thin. As is his entire facade. Lynch Logic today always.
That is paper thin.

[Zack]

His style is too easy to replicate with fewer posts.
:inquisitive:

[Askthepizzaguy]

Pizza, do you remember Jabbz' Sorcery game? Csargo was similarly low-energy and recalcitrant, even continuously under pressure as a POE candidate. Maybe he's just not into it?

Yes, with Csargo this can happen. More indicative I think is when and why he's acted, than his overall attitude and tone. But it doesn't help.

I feel like he's miserable, but I could be wrong about that. He also can simply be playing it low key so he can bring out the big guns later. But right now he needs to act like a townie and he's not, and I think he flinched when I went after Logic.

The roleplaying itself was probable to draw me votes if I voted a scum. It wasn't why I did it but I kept it in mind, to look at the people voting me and sort which of them were town. I think I got those folks' alignment right so far, comparing that with their body of work. Zack looks townie for it, Csargo doesn't, and the rest of their posts match up with that assessment.

[Askthepizzaguy]

:inquisitive:

Think to your champs performance or any game where you posted a little as scum, and got no flak for it really.

Certainly not by me. And a lot of your town games are up and down postcount wise as well.

You can very easily phone it in on an early round, you choose not to.

[Askthepizzaguy]

The finale, not the qualifier.

[Montmorency]

yes


who do you want to lynch rn?



???



when I was a wolf with him, literally all he would do is pop in, complain the number of posts, do nothing useful, and leave. Sound familiar?

I don't feel any urgency to lynch right now, since half the day is ahead and a number of nulls like Choxorn, Cuth, Barto, and Xiahou remain to sort out. The case against Logic is relatively good for D1, and we need to see him respond against all those nulls. Right now I'm fine continuing to vote you.

Re Manasi: I mean that she would be putting out observations or prods toward her teammates, and she doesn't seem to be observing or prodding much of anyone so far, other than joking with you as usual.

Re: Barto, yes, and he never broke out of it and got lynched. So? That took 2 or 3 days to fill out.

[Zack]

Think to your champs performance or any game where you posted a little as scum, and got no flak for it really.

Certainly not by me. And a lot of your town games are up and down postcount wise as well.

You can very easily phone it in on an early round, you choose not to.
I had to sub out of the champs game, and I did get flak for it anyways

[Zack]

I don't feel any urgency to lynch right now, since half the day is ahead and a number of nulls like Choxorn, Cuth, Barto, and Xiahou remain to sort out. The case against Logic is relatively good for D1, and we need to see him respond against all those nulls. Right now I'm fine continuing to vote you.

Re Manasi: I mean that she would be putting out observations or prods toward her teammates, and she doesn't seem to be observing or prodding much of anyone so far, other than joking with you as usual.

Re: Barto, yes, and he never broke out of it and got lynched. So? That took 2 or 3 days to fill out.

The way you are treating logic and barto is contradictory?

I don't really agree with your meta-reasoning on manasi, or your description of her so far. Her second post of the game i think had a few observatiosn.

[Montmorency]

The way you are treating logic and barto is contradictory?

I don't really agree with your meta-reasoning on manasi, or your description of her so far. Her second post of the game i think had a few observatiosn.

I pointed out that this would have been a proper misgiving earlier on, but Pizza's pressure has been relentless and Logic hasn't kept up on his second set. Barto just began his first set. The point right now is that Logic is a decent candidate, not that he absolutely must be hammered now.

[Montmorency]

Dp101, what do you think between Manasi, Barto, and Logic? Of course I tried to keep you and the latter two from tearing at each other's throats, but in the end you and Barto (and the rest) POEd Logic.

Is Logic now acting like Logic the round before his lynch then, or is it different conforming to Pizza's observations?

[Askthepizzaguy]

@ Monty

courtesy response to your wall with my opinions on relevant bits that weren't questions to others.


Note: Winston and Zack feel better individually as my responses below indicate, but this just elevates the possibility of m/m.

Can't agree with that yet. It would take a lot of things to spin both reads negative. I literally would need to see 2 of Logic, Manasi, and Csargo flip town first, I think. Game would also be way out of hand by then. We'll cross that bridge when it ever happens.


People re: Csargo, but you can't really judge by last game's performance. He's currently low-energy baseline for Csargo and that has tended to be town.

And that gif was deployed in the Pokemon game, right? He was v engaged scum.

Agreed but this one-game meta thing is super thin. By his last town game, he should be lock scum, but I know that it wouldn't be for that reason because I have more than a one game meta with Csargo. He can still be scum but that's not why. Why is because he randed it and his post indicate so, but because it's different from his last town game by miles. It always would have been.

Higher engagement with Pokemon game as scum could have everything to do with partners, state of the game, and the theme. Could also have been a good time for him. There are games when I am locked and loaded if I rand mafia, other games I'm hoping for a town rand because I have a high bar to hit when I'm scum and I want to be able to give that level of performance and sometimes I don't have the energy and I'd have to summon it, which is difficult and frustrating when it's not there.

For those reasons, you shouldn't say Csargo this game as scum did this, he's doing something different here, he might be town. If he is, it's not for those reasons. Much better is examining him in this game. This game will always be much more alignment indicative than a one game meta snap read.


Well, I think the DP analysis is insightful, but I don't know about "no person actually behaves like this"... Laughs aside, there was dicetosser in Representative Democracy. OTOH dicetosser was non-stop confrontational, so that consistency could be something to compare against reinoe later. As of now, reinoe fits well in the town-play mold of visitors like Severing Viper and a couple of other people.

Dicetosser can be fun to play against, he's usually very blunt and confrontational though. He's a very brick wall kind of player, with rough and sharp bricks sticking out at odd angles.

reinoe reminds me of Lulz / iamabussinessman, tbqh. That's his style almost exactly. Voxx is different.

Not a lot of this is needed to be read by anyone, you could elect to skip it. I mainly talk about Winston/Zack not wolves and not w/w, and a bit on Csargo's one previous scum game not being very indicative because of how non-indicative one-game-meta is. Total body of work meta much more solid, this one game always more solid than meta anyway. The most telling meta is whole-game meta. One half of day one is the reason why I'm not more solid he needs to die. I also guess who reinoe is.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I had to sub out of the champs game, and I did get flak for it anyways

Not a lot of scum reads or a ton of votes.

[Askthepizzaguy]

That is paper thin.

INCORRECT!

[Zack]

I also thought lulz, pizza. But I don't think so, considering he's not rubbing his nipples to the sweet, sweet sound of strategic zero posting.

[Dp101]

Dp101, what do you think between Manasi, Barto, and Logic? Of course I tried to keep you and the latter two from tearing at each other's throats, but in the end you and Barto (and the rest) POEd Logic.

Is Logic now acting like Logic the round before his lynch then, or is it different conforming to Pizza's observations?

Firstly, I wouldn’t exactly describe my r actions towards logic and Barto tearing st their throats, but anyway, I feel that out of those 3, the lynch order should be Logic > Barto > Manasi, with manasi basically being my null benchmark at this point. Barto’s outright refusal to read the thread feels like a new level of anti-town behaviour from him, and I’m starting to agree with Pizza on Logic. However, I want to emphasise here that I am not entirely sure how to read logic, and so my vote is more sheeping than anything else. Could you elaborate as to what you mean by “Logic the round before his lynch”? Are you referring to a past game here? Or do you think logic is playling like this because he thinks he is going to get lynched? I really can’t parse your statement.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I also thought lulz, pizza. But I don't think so, considering he's not rubbing his nipples to the sweet, sweet sound of strategic zero posting.

Why make an alt if you don't want to play a game with a relatively new group of people and a fresh meta?

He'd totally just sign up as lulz if he was gonna do that. He's followed me to various forums before (Giraffe, for example) and been lulz.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Firstly, I wouldn’t exactly describe my r actions towards logic and Barto tearing st their throats, but anyway, I feel that out of those 3, the lynch order should be Logic > Barto > Manasi, with manasi basically being my null benchmark at this point. Barto’s outright refusal to read the thread feels like a new level of anti-town behaviour from him, and I’m starting to agree with Pizza on Logic. However, I want to emphasise here that I am not entirely sure how to read logic, and so my vote is more sheeping than anything else. Could you elaborate as to what you mean by “Logic the round before his lynch”? Are you referring to a past game here? Or do you think logic is playling like this because he thinks he is going to get lynched? I really can’t parse your statement.

Logic is straightforward. He can't hide in plain sight when he's a town power role, he just kind of vanishes. He has real thoughts as town that people sometimes dismiss for being too A ---> B, and as scum he's just kinda... like this. Not confident enough to battle, more liable to undercut or smudge, passive aggressive stuff. No depth, generic posts, catchable under pressure.

I don't think he can break out of this pattern since he's been at this for years. Logic is who he is. He needs someone who knows how to read him when he's town otherwise he's mislynch bait. He can hide under the radar if you don't push him as scum. He tenses up when he's got a town pr or scum role.

[Montmorency]

Firstly, I wouldn’t exactly describe my r actions towards logic and Barto tearing st their throats, but anyway, I feel that out of those 3, the lynch order should be Logic > Barto > Manasi, with manasi basically being my null benchmark at this point. Barto’s outright refusal to read the thread feels like a new level of anti-town behaviour from him, and I’m starting to agree with Pizza on Logic. However, I want to emphasise here that I am not entirely sure how to read logic, and so my vote is more sheeping than anything else. Could you elaborate as to what you mean by “Logic the round before his lynch”? Are you referring to a past game here? Or do you think logic is playling like this because he thinks he is going to get lynched? I really can’t parse your statement.

I mentioned that in the two games he was town for a length of time, Pokemon and XCOM, he opened with a more confident and independent style, but over time lost confidence up to the point he was lynched in the endgame. Setting aside those specific endgame conditions of frustration and paranoia, I was wondering if Logic looked to you very different from opening-game town Logic, which means lean scum, or if he reminds you of something in end-game town Logic, which potentially means town Logic fumbling the entrance to this game.

This questions goes for Csargo and Barto as well, I guess. You were the XCOM endgame Big Three.

We'll see with Barto. Another interpretation is, he's making friends with the new people.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Logic can no more change his meta than I can stop being Askthepizzaguy. I haven't even bothered playing much under alts and I can't even keep up roleplaying that I want to do, eventually I still come out.

This game is one where your own nature can be used against you. It can exonerate or condemn you and unless you're amorphous personality-wise, you can get trapped by it.

[Montmorency]

Because at the time when I did my analysis clearing Logic that game, it was more on the basis of POE than gamecourse content or tone.

[Dp101]

Logic is straightforward. He can't hide in plain sight when he's a town power role, he just kind of vanishes. He has real thoughts as town that people sometimes dismiss for being too A ---> B, and as scum he's just kinda... like this. Not confident enough to battle, more liable to undercut or smudge, passive aggressive stuff. No depth, generic posts, catchable under pressure.

I don't think he can break out of this pattern since he's been at this for years. Logic is who he is. He needs someone who knows how to read him when he's town otherwise he's mislynch bait. He can hide under the radar if you don't push him as scum. He tenses up when he's got a town pr or scum role.

So what about his play makes him not just a town PR? The vanishing from the thread your describe seems to categorise his play this game fairly well, and personally, that’s been a far larger element of his play than any slips early game. Maybe I should reread the start.

[Zack]

Logic is straightforward. He can't hide in plain sight when he's a town power role, he just kind of vanishes. He has real thoughts as town that people sometimes dismiss for being too A ---> B, and as scum he's just kinda... like this. Not confident enough to battle, more liable to undercut or smudge, passive aggressive stuff. No depth, generic posts, catchable under pressure.

I don't think he can break out of this pattern since he's been at this for years. Logic is who he is. He needs someone who knows how to read him when he's town otherwise he's mislynch bait. He can hide under the radar if you don't push him as scum. He tenses up when he's got a town pr or scum role.

I'm confused, logic has only played a few games here

[Askthepizzaguy]

So what about his play makes him not just a town PR? The vanishing from the thread your describe seems to categorise his play this game fairly well, and personally, that’s been a far larger element of his play than any slips early game. Maybe I should reread the start.

Passive aggressive. If he were hiding, he wouldn't be undercutting or even solving.

His intent is malevolent here, not hiding.

He would find someone who won't push back and vote them, and then not post.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I'm confused, logic has only played a few games here

I played often with him on his home board.

Style is exactly the same and he's a long time player there.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I read his iso. To me, it looks more like a townie toeing the waters on a new group of people than someone with hidden information.

Winston, this... looks odd. It sounds to me like a willingness to lynch pizza, but an admission that you know he's town.

This post is why Logic is never a town pr here.

This route of smearing Winston is not Logic's usual town fare, and it's not straightforward.

Logic is very straightforward.

This is Logic implying Winston is scum in a roundabout way, hands off. That's not his MO as town, and definitely not as a town power role.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Iso him in XCOM or any game he was town.

Find passive aggression and roundabout implications someone is scum, and I'll give you a cookie.

[Csargo]

You'd be right that I'm annoyed/not enjoying this game pizza. I'm busy with school/work, so I'm super tired all the time now. I'm not entirely sure what happened with the Zack thing initially, I didn't think I contradicted myself, but such is life. It spiraled after that, I'm just not having a good time.

[Zack]

Iso him in XCOM or any game he was town.

Find passive aggression and roundabout implications someone is scum, and I'll give you a cookie.
We still got two days

If he doesn't improve, and I'm bored of the long day and want to stab my eyeballs out, maybe I'll take a look

but I get the feeling this is just another jarrema in ikea mafia moment

[Askthepizzaguy]

I'm doing a quick iso of XCOM just to see how right I am about that, even though I know.

I'm on page 14 and he's accused a ton of folks, in every single case, it has been level one, what he says is what he means, unambiguous, not passive aggressive, directly straightforward suspicion. I think X is scum. Upon further analysis, I feel less sure he's scum. And so on.

Logic isn't Logic this game. He's illogical, and that has no place in a chess game. Snap up the loose queen, guys.

[Fredwood]

I guess the first 72 hours are going to be boring until we keep repeating ourselves about how we're going to lynch Logic, I don't think I've ever seen such a consensus Day 1.

Bart's entrance was sloppy, but I don't think as sloppy as Rein's.

Otherwise I caught up and most of it was Pizza's spam posts, the only other thing is I think I put Slaan solidly at the top of my Town pile. Zack hasn't looked as strong during this catchup, but a part of that may be him just being frustrated and bickering with Pizza and Bart. His assessment of Bart's meta is interesting.


I will address the CSargo thing, I wasn't using his last game as a baseline for his read, I was referring specifically to how he defended himself. His responses to pressure have literally been "cool" or a version of "you got me". In that game whenever it came up Csargo is scum he was more playful and snarky. I'm not talking about his activity, or content outside of his reaction to pressure, which I think it's fair to think for it to be consistent no matter the situation. Still in the end I said I didn't think it was a fair baseline for comparison anyway, so DON'T LECTURE ME.

[Askthepizzaguy]

You'd be right that I'm annoyed/not enjoying this game pizza. I'm busy with school/work, so I'm super tired all the time now. I'm not entirely sure what happened with the Zack thing initially, I didn't think I contradicted myself, but such is life. It spiraled after that, I'm just not having a good time.

My sympathies.

Seriously. I'm hoping regardless what happens next or your alignment or whatever, you find a way to have fun.

I won't hound you, I've said why I have issues and may vote you in a future round. But I'll try not to make the experience bad for you.

[Zack]

I guess the first 72 hours are going to be boring until we keep repeating ourselves about how we're going to lynch Logic, I don't think I've ever seen such a consensus Day 1.

Bart's entrance was sloppy, but I don't think as sloppy as Rein's.

Otherwise I caught up and most of it was Pizza's spam posts, the only other thing is I think I put Slaan solidly at the top of my Town pile. Zack hasn't looked as strong during this catchup, but a part of that may be him just being frustrated and bickering with Pizza and Bart. His assessment of Bart's meta is interesting.


I will address the CSargo thing, I wasn't using his last game as a baseline for his read, I was referring specifically to how he defended himself. His responses to pressure have literally been "cool" or a version of "you got me". In that game whenever it came up Csargo is scum he was more playful and snarky. I'm not talking about his activity, or content outside of his reaction to pressure, which I think it's fair to think for it to be consistent no matter the situation. Still in the end I said I didn't think it was a fair baseline for comparison anyway, so DON'T LECTURE ME.
I've been busier and don't actually want to keep up that rate of activity

I did that in the one game with mtgs on MU that was 72/24. It was exhausting and miserable. Can't go hard in the paint 72 hours straight, it's not healthy for me.

[Zack]

and fwiw Pizza is probably just town

I had a theory earlier, but I think by this point it's clear it's just a theory and not actually applicable

[Fredwood]

I've been busier and don't actually want to keep up that rate of activity

I did that in the one game with mtgs on MU that was 72/24. It was exhausting and miserable. Can't go hard in the paint 72 hours straight, it's not healthy for me.

I was more talking about your seeming annoyed by Bart and Pizza which did mess with the flow and content you had earlier. I'm not demanding any type of activity, I don't think I've posted 10 times. Still high up in my town, was just explaining why I'd put Slaan ahead of you now in his own tier.

[Csargo]

I guess the first 72 hours are going to be boring until we keep repeating ourselves about how we're going to lynch Logic, I don't think I've ever seen such a consensus Day 1.

Bart's entrance was sloppy, but I don't think as sloppy as Rein's.

Otherwise I caught up and most of it was Pizza's spam posts, the only other thing is I think I put Slaan solidly at the top of my Town pile. Zack hasn't looked as strong during this catchup, but a part of that may be him just being frustrated and bickering with Pizza and Bart. His assessment of Bart's meta is interesting.


I will address the CSargo thing, I wasn't using his last game as a baseline for his read, I was referring specifically to how he defended himself. His responses to pressure have literally been "cool" or a version of "you got me". In that game whenever it came up Csargo is scum he was more playful and snarky. I'm not talking about his activity, or content outside of his reaction to pressure, which I think it's fair to think for it to be consistent no matter the situation. Still in the end I said I didn't think it was a fair baseline for comparison anyway, so DON'T LECTURE ME.

He literally quoted my post and said weak. How should I have responded to that?

[Zack]

He literally quoted my post and said weak. How should I have responded to that?

muscle emoji

[Fredwood]

He literally quoted my post and said weak. How should I have responded to that?

Lol I already retracted the assessment because I looked at the play and felt it wasn't applicable and wasn't using it as a basis to read you. I literally said what I thought in the moment and then researched. I got lectured twice on the statement even though I came to the same conclusion that people were lecturing me on.

[Fredwood]

Literally, Literal, Laterally, deleterious, latissimus dorsi.

Ok I think I've gotten it out of my system

[Slaan]

So I ISO'd Logic once more to reconsider my case on him... I noticed how pizza basically immediatly went after him and tunneled him ever since, starting Post 169 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152969-Chess-Game-Thread-In-Play&p=2053761099&viewfull=1#post2053761099) where he calls his opener sloppy althought he just posted about games during rvs which I don't think is AI since we the topic when he came into the thread were video games.

But then there is his townread on me which is just weird as fuck... I mean I was just shitposting around and I can do that regardless of alignment (check the Orchestrated Chaos game where I also just randomly posted at SoD1)... I mean who can't just post small talk as either alignment. He then gives the reason that he thought I just tipped my foot in the water of new peeps here but how is that ever AI from anyone? There went 0 thought into his townread on me and there is no reason for a towny to do so.

So yea, I'm fine with a Logic lynch today.. in fact let me help

Vote: Logic

Also I'm gonna put Monty back in my null pile after his last couple of posts, they seemed pretty good

[GeneralHankerchief]

Yeah off the cuff.

Will do because you're asking me for it.

To summarize my position, and this is rough and sloppy and doesn't contain jokes:

White pieces, top 6 are my town until they get kicked out, rest are prospects for town I am not solid on, need more analysis. In this order top down

1. Pizza
2. Zack
3. reinoe
4. dp101
5. Winston
6. GH
-----------
7. choxorn
8. Slaan
9. Kage
10. Monty

Unknown:
Xiahou, probably town by odds, if I had to guess the slot based on reading the room.
Cuth, guess town. Not sure though.
Fredwood, no idea. Let's see later.
Barto, guess wolf if I had to find a fourth.

Black pieces:
1. Logic, easily
2. There is definitely either one or two black pieces inside Csargo and Manasi.

Get all three and you'll get two black pieces minimum, possibly GG. Start with Logic.

Nah, not really buying this.

For starters I don't think Logic is mafia, it was pretty easy to shade him in the endgame of Pokemon and I'm detecting a lot of the same stuff here.

Secondly you're putting way too much emphasis on a single scumread of yours, half of your townies are simply the people who joined your wagon for goodness sake.

Stop tunneling, spread out, and read the whole game besides your black/white dichotomy on Logic and Csargo to a lesser extent. You're better than this regardless of alignment.

[Slaan]

Vote: Logic

+ Unvote: Csargo (duno if thats required but just in case)

[GeneralHankerchief]

By contrast, this is Logic barely clearing a hurdle Kage put in his path.

That lack of depth and generic thought is too thin for him, it doesn't match the earlier comment. "I don't see Slaan as a wolf" is too definitive in my opinion to be paired with the question of why answered by "He looks like a townie in a new group of people".

That's paper thin. As is his entire facade. Lynch Logic today always.

Okay your Kage post was better, but I think you're still tunneling/lacking context. Kage is Kage, Logic is Logic, and one of them is definitely more naturally uncomfortable.

[Slaan]

You'd be right that I'm annoyed/not enjoying this game pizza. I'm busy with school/work, so I'm super tired all the time now. I'm not entirely sure what happened with the Zack thing initially, I didn't think I contradicted myself, but such is life. It spiraled after that, I'm just not having a good time.

Who do you currently look at being mafia? Lets ignore everything that happened so far for now with you and lets look forward together? :)

[Fredwood]

FINALLY, a dissenting opinion about Logic.

[Zack]

FINALLY, a dissenting opinion about Logic.

what am i, chopped liver

[Zack]

I mean, how many times does someone call a naturally suspicious looking person a wolf 1/3 into d1, literally almost the entire game says "sure bud" and votes him, and they actually flip wolf?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Finished the iso of Logic in XCOM. I know I'm right on this. 70+ posts and 28 pages say the same thing on every page, starkly.

I challenge you to find literally any town game of his where he shaded someone even close to that way.

I don't think it's happened anytime in the past five years at least. This is not a one game meta read, it's not in his town playbook at all.

He's got his ways, I don't think he changed them for this game without an alignment change too.

[reinoe]

Wait you switch a legit readvote on Zack to a jokevote on Barto?
El Barto has 14 posts. I challenge you to find one read.

[GeneralHankerchief]

I guess the first 72 hours are going to be boring until we keep repeating ourselves about how we're going to lynch Logic, I don't think I've ever seen such a consensus Day 1.

Bart's entrance was sloppy, but I don't think as sloppy as Rein's.

Otherwise I caught up and most of it was Pizza's spam posts, the only other thing is I think I put Slaan solidly at the top of my Town pile. Zack hasn't looked as strong during this catchup, but a part of that may be him just being frustrated and bickering with Pizza and Bart. His assessment of Bart's meta is interesting.


I will address the CSargo thing, I wasn't using his last game as a baseline for his read, I was referring specifically to how he defended himself. His responses to pressure have literally been "cool" or a version of "you got me". In that game whenever it came up Csargo is scum he was more playful and snarky. I'm not talking about his activity, or content outside of his reaction to pressure, which I think it's fair to think for it to be consistent no matter the situation. Still in the end I said I didn't think it was a fair baseline for comparison anyway, so DON'T LECTURE ME.

I thought Reinoe's entrance was fine. Why didn't you like it?

[Slaan]

I mean, how many times does someone call a naturally suspicious looking person a wolf 1/3 into d1, literally almost the entire game says "sure bud" and votes him, and they actually flip wolf?

Is it the entire game? Isnt it rather just one very loud voice that 2 others (Kage + dp) sheeped and now more recently I added myself to that list... am I missing someone? I don't see this being unlikely tbh

[Fredwood]

what am i, chopped liver

No, you're at least Corned Beef. I thought your logic stance was not as strong as a scum read, but were willing to lynch. GH is the first person to call Logic not mafia.

If it's two, then cool

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/underwear-dance.gif

More victory dances.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Okay your Kage post was better, but I think you're still tunneling/lacking context. Kage is Kage, Logic is Logic, and one of them is definitely more naturally uncomfortable.

My context on Logic is way better than anyone else's.

Look for yourself. Pick a game, any game. Pizza's Logic=Townie challenge.

[Montmorency]

Finished the iso of Logic in XCOM. I know I'm right on this. 70+ posts and 28 pages say the same thing on every page, starkly.

I challenge you to find literally any town game of his where he shaded someone even close to that way.

I don't think it's happened anytime in the past five years at least. This is not a one game meta read, it's not in his town playbook at all.

He's got his ways, I don't think he changed them for this game without an alignment change too.

Well, OK, but you made a meta-meta point on how to correctly interpret within-game and across-career and as someone with a lot of experience with Logic you haven't really explained his scum meta, just how his behavior here is inconsistent with his town meta.

[reinoe]

El Barto has 14 posts. I challenge you to find one read.


I challenge you to find literally any town game of his where he shaded someone even close to that way.
That x-post.

ATPG confirmed town.

[Montmorency]

El Barto has 14 posts. I challenge you to find one read.

Have you played with Barto before?

[GeneralHankerchief]

I mean, how many times does someone call a naturally suspicious looking person a wolf 1/3 into d1, literally almost the entire game says "sure bud" and votes him, and they actually flip wolf?

Yeah, this is pretty much where I'm at. Let's diversify.

[Slaan]

El Barto has 14 posts. I challenge you to find one read.

Oh yea I'm not saying that barto is playing well or anything and was I a vig I'd maybe just vig this night... but you had a real read on Zack iirc and change it to someone that just didnt give a crap so far? I mean it's not wolfy per se... just not something I'd do ^^

[reinoe]

Have you played with Barto before?

Can't say that I have.

[Slaan]

Fred why am I your top town read?

[GeneralHankerchief]

My context on Logic is way better than anyone else's.

Look for yourself. Pick a game, any game. Pizza's Logic=Townie challenge.

I'll check it out at some point in the phase, sure. But I'm not going to change my read on him in the meantime just because you told me to.

[Montmorency]

Can't say that I have.

He likes to troll people, especially unfamiliar people. Not saying your vote is misguided for pressure - just beware of a self-reinforcing cycle.

[Slaan]

Yeah, this is pretty much where I'm at. Let's diversify.

Who are you looking at then?

[Fredwood]

I thought Reinoe's entrance was fine. Why didn't you like it?

Maybe it wasn't his entrance, but it's the first time I noticed him, so I misspoke. My issue was his first content post, and then further his DP post.

His Logic scum read and somewhat associative read with Zack but pushing Zack before Logic.

He said independently that he has a scum read on Zack, buuuuut, the read he gave was inaccurate, he accused him of OMGUS when Zack did as much picking at people town reading him as he dis people scum reading him. That and his DP post felt forced AF, and overly long, when he didn't mention him before.

I can be talked down from a ledge on him, I just don't really have a stronger inclination to go to at this moment. The Logic thing was bothering me because it felt like an overwhelming damnation of the poor guy.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Who are you looking at then?

Well, now that I'm finally live, some combination of Fred, Barto, and Reinoe. I'd also like to stay live for a little while.

[Dp101]

+ Unvote: Csargo (duno if thats required but just in case)

Not required, and actually breaks the automated vote count script that someone made.

[Slaan]

Well, now that I'm finally live, some combination of Fred, Barto, and Reinoe. I'd also like to stay live for a little while.

Why those three?

[Slaan]

Not required, and actually breaks the automated vote count script that someone made.

woaps

[Dp101]

woaps

It’s fine, I’m pretty sure it only really breaks it if you vote/unvote in the same line.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Why those three?

The three of them have actually posted and I don't really have a read on any of them.

[Dp101]

Well, now that I'm finally live, some combination of Fred, Barto, and Reinoe. I'd also like to stay live for a little while.

I can deal with this minus Fred, his content has been intermittent but fairly genuine.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Yeah, this is pretty much where I'm at. Let's diversify.

If you guys are just doing this to not be Pizza, that's not a good call or a good reason. But you do you.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I'll check it out at some point in the phase, sure. But I'm not going to change my read on him in the meantime just because you told me to.

If you ever get around to doing this, give me a real, honest assessment.

If you don't do a 180 I'm going to need a good explanation.

[Montmorency]

Well, now that I'm finally live, some combination of Fred, Barto, and Reinoe. I'd also like to stay live for a little while.

The three of them have actually posted and I don't really have a read on any of them.

Update on why reinoe's entrance was fine but now he needs to be looked at?

Fred is not doing anything noteworthy in general or compared to last game. In fact, his pressure on reinoe over case logic and approach is kind of similar to how he developed pressure on Barto over D1 and into D2.

[Slaan]

The three of them have actually posted and I don't really have a read on any of them.

Well in case of Bart 'posted' I guess... but sure take a look.

I'm out for today, hf guys/gals :)

[Fredwood]

Fred why am I your top town read?

Started with your GH joke, I liked you questioning of Pizza during his catchup. Also the sass at Zack during this time. It feels like you're keeping the thread in check and I like the tone. Considering I only have like two town leans in this game so far, you're the best of two, so take that as you will.

[GeneralHankerchief]

If you ever get around to doing this, give me a real, honest assessment.

If you don't do a 180 I'm going to need a good explanation.

As opposed to a fake, scummy assessment?

[Cuthillius]

Gaaah, I couldn't help myself and was sneaking peeks at the thread on my phone. Found somewhere to sit down and pull out my laptop because I really want to say something.

re: why dp is town

No, it's not because "he's awkward as town and is being awkward here." I don't think that's necessarily true, anyways, but that's another discussion.

I recently hosted a game, a week or two ago, where DP was a wolf. I read his posts in the game, I read his posts in wolfchat. There are two specific things that I like from DP so far, and one vague thing.

1. He knows that I noticed how much he started randomly commenting on things as "spicy" in that game, and thought it was something people in the game should have been noticing in the game as being off. So, DP rands wolf here, and probably keeps that in mind as something to avoid, especially around me. But he did the opposite -- he specifically said it in a few times, tried to bring my attention to it, and wanted to gauge my reaction. That's a town move.

2. Reinoe called him out. Many wolves feel uncomfortable standing their ground and going toe to toe with someone in the thread, and so fall into the trap of being overly conciliatory in an awkward way. As mafia, I'd expect DP to respond to this in some form of "sorry I'm busy with school, I'll try to be better" or whatever. Instead, he basically told Reinoe: eff you, piss off.

3. The vague one. He just, seems town to me.

---

Normally, this wouldn't elicit quite the rustle brush in me as it has here. But, the last time I thought town DP was being town DP and didn't speak loud enough against it, he was mislynched d1 and I was fairly pissed about it. Don't want that to happen again, so I'm planting my flag.

Also, I dislike the way Winston has danced around the DP read. Doesn't seem to actually be digging in for a read there, just throwing out stuff based on how the winds sound -- look at 451/453, he instantly changes from dangling out the w/w read to just saying, I agree with slaan, it's v/v. Then in 456 his explanation of why people are townreading DP reads like he's trying to subtly dismiss it as bad reasoning.

Also on Winston -- he called Kage town for no reason afaict (maybe protecting a partner?), and instead of giving actual reads on me/pizza has maintained a general aura of paranoia in that direction. It seems like what scum winston thinks town Winston would do.

I think reinoe could have sensed DP as someone he could push around and went for the throat. Kicking the puppy, as Renata and I think Monty have described it in the past. The level of being an abrasive, "I do what I want and I'm not nice about it!!!" feels overblown, like it's a performance. No person actually behaves like this unless it's an affectation.



yeah ok so

this

this addresses a lot of things i want to address

i slept on my thoughts, but my opinions on this game are still fairly similar to what they were

1. you're... i don't think you've giving him as much credit as ye should?

i got the opposite impression, that he was doing it in a really clunky and... calculated way that was obviously gimmicky

this was making sure someone asked him about it, this wasn't lay a little bait to see if you pick it up

i think dp is the sort of player in whose range it would be to say if i do this it will likely be perceived as lol awkward villagery?

2. i would have agreed with you in the past

but lissa in particular and a few others have reacted in a quite similar way as wolves

i do think it's... not bad at all for him

also i

you know

i'm stopping

wrt point three, i was going to say that i thought his game was ~neutral

but as i talk about it i do feel like

the simpler/more straightforward solution here is that he's just a villager

that said, i think it still overlaps somewhat with his wolf range, and i do have an issue with gh/others? locking him in at this stage of the game, especially given weak reasons of meta tells that dp is certainly aware of and well able to use/manipulate at this point

could well be that there are other unspoken reasons but /shrug

also i thought his "pizza has one tell" post was villagery so

[Askthepizzaguy]

Logic is scum and it was that simple, but even in a universe where I'm wrong, I didn't come up with this while being scum myself. Those reasons on Logic are what I really believe and that much should be very clear at this point. I know his meta and he's breaking it, in a scummy way with scummy motivations behind it. Whatever happens next, I should be in everyone's town.

I don't want to look this townie or be this invested in anything this early. Even when I tried to snipe dp as a wolf, I did it passive aggressively. I let it be his own fault that he was getting lynched.

I own the Logic lynch. And I'm sticking my big butt in everyone's faces. This is town pizza.

It's almost 3am, and I have an appointment that's several hours long plus visiting non-english speaking relatives. I can't be awake for a ton more hours and I need my calming down time, so I'm out. You all know where I stand and why, so I did my job this round. I should even be correctly readable now, which is a huge bonus.

[Askthepizzaguy]

As opposed to a fake, scummy assessment?

Don't do it half assed or to confirm bias. Give it a real look where you can be wrong.

I don't mean to be insulting, but you're gonna go look to support your argument or refute me I think. Have an open mind.

[Cuthillius]

Kage, follow me onto Cuth, his vote on Dp was bad.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_caU5EZcrn7w/TKAhQ32GPsI/AAAAAAAAAL4/DJ462F926bk/s1600/aladdin_do_you_trust_me.jpg

my what now

[Cuthillius]

zack's a villager

he has all the things i look for, plus being more open/communicative about said things and his thought process

pizza's very probably a villager as well, from posting/gamestate/way people are reacting to him/his attitude towards the game so far

lines up very nicely with the last several villager games i've played with him in the last >year, and not with his wolf games

so

yee

also i think winston's very villagery but i have no idea why so i'm putting that on hold for now

[Montmorency]

Logic is scum and it was that simple, but even in a universe where I'm wrong, I didn't come up with this while being scum myself. Those reasons on Logic are what I really believe and that much should be very clear at this point. I know his meta and he's breaking it, in a scummy way with scummy motivations behind it. Whatever happens next, I should be in everyone's town.

I don't want to look this townie or be this invested in anything this early. Even when I tried to snipe dp as a wolf, I did it passive aggressively. I let it be his own fault that he was getting lynched.

I own the Logic lynch. And I'm sticking my big butt in everyone's faces. This is town pizza.

It's almost 3am, and I have an appointment that's several hours long plus visiting non-english speaking relatives. I can't be awake for a ton more hours and I need my calming down time, so I'm out. You all know where I stand and why, so I did my job this round. I should even be correctly readable now, which is a huge bonus.

OK, but what is his scum meta specifically? In the next day or so.


[snip]

ehh.


also i thought his "pizza has one tell" post was villagery so

As a matter of fact, I don't recall that Dp101 ever explained what he was referring to.

[Xiahou]

Sheesh.... 25 pages already???

Vote: zack
For spamming out over 150 posts. :stare:

ATPG is a close second... but you can only vote for one.

[Cuthillius]

manasi who knows

started with content, which is by The Meta wolfy, but was quite aware that she did so and

hasn't really given enough at this point for any reasonable read of much solidity

[Montmorency]

I figured out who Slaan reminds me of: Schema. Some unique alias IDK, she only played in Representative Democracy here.

It was this post in particular:


Who do you currently look at being mafia? Lets ignore everything that happened so far for now with you and lets look forward together? :)

Anybody?

[Cuthillius]

i remember thinking slaan's opening yesterday was weak

it still lined up with how i feel he can play as villager

his posts since them have also been underwhelming/going in strange directions/unnecessary shadingtypestuff

it still lines up with how i feel he can play as villager

e.g. https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152969-Chess-Game-Thread-In-Play&p=2053761668&viewfull=1#post2053761668

[Zack]

yeah ok so

this

this addresses a lot of things i want to address

i slept on my thoughts, but my opinions on this game are still fairly similar to what they were

1. you're... i don't think you've giving him as much credit as ye should?

i got the opposite impression, that he was doing it in a really clunky and... calculated way that was obviously gimmicky

this was making sure someone asked him about it, this wasn't lay a little bait to see if you pick it up

i think dp is the sort of player in whose range it would be to say if i do this it will likely be perceived as lol awkward villagery?

2. i would have agreed with you in the past

but lissa in particular and a few others have reacted in a quite similar way as wolves

i do think it's... not bad at all for him

also i

you know

i'm stopping

wrt point three, i was going to say that i thought his game was ~neutral

but as i talk about it i do feel like

the simpler/more straightforward solution here is that he's just a villager

that said, i think it still overlaps somewhat with his wolf range, and i do have an issue with gh/others? locking him in at this stage of the game, especially given weak reasons of meta tells that dp is certainly aware of and well able to use/manipulate at this point

could well be that there are other unspoken reasons but /shrug

also i thought his "pizza has one tell" post was villagery so

this is a lot of words for, "there's no real reason to scumread dp, but please, please don't let him out of the poe"

[Zack]

this is what I see from cuth so far this game (his opening and on this page)

- call strong players who he will nightkill villagers

- hem and haw on everyone else

[Cuthillius]

this is a lot of words for, "there's no real reason to scumread dp, but please, please don't let him out of the poe"

no that's kinda

the gist?

there is no reason to scumread him, and i do agree with you for the most part, if not to the magnitude that you do

[Cuthillius]

this is what I see from cuth so far this game (his opening and on this page)

- call strong players who he will nightkill villagers

- hem and haw on everyone else

...

i honestly don't know how i can be clearer or communicate my thought processes to you better

there was a time when i would have come in with many reads, including very probably several incorrect wolf leans

i've changed, and i have different aims and beliefs about the game than i did when i played with you in the past, for the most part

i legitimately have a wobbly read on everyone in the game except for the two people i have called villagers, as you said

i'm honestly doing my best to show the thoughts i am having

don't really know what else to say, but felt like i should say something

[Dp101]

As a matter of fact, I don't recall that Dp101 ever explained what he was referring to.

Oh, I was referring to his consistent early pushing of me when he's scum. I'm pretty happy calling him town now.

[Cuthillius]

dp, gimme a spicy take

[Dp101]

dp, gimme a spicy take

Csargo is town.

[Zack]

...

i honestly don't know how i can be clearer or communicate my thought processes to you better

there was a time when i would have come in with many reads, including very probably several incorrect wolf leans

i've changed, and i have different aims and beliefs about the game than i did when i played with you in the past, for the most part

i legitimately have a wobbly read on everyone in the game except for the two people i have called villagers, as you said

i'm honestly doing my best to show the thoughts i am having

don't really know what else to say, but felt like i should say something

I don't have any problem with your communication this time around, per se. But you very quickly called me, winston, and pizza all villagers pretty easily, when despite the number of words you've written about others, haven't really come to any conclusions. It pings me, ducy.

[Zack]

Csargo is town.
not a wolf

or town?

I don't care for the push on him either, but that's a S P I C Y leap.

[Dp101]

not a wolf

or town?

I don't care for the push on him either, but that's a S P I C Y leap.

Well, a S P I C Y read was requested. I personally think that being worn out is a pretty likely reason for his volume and play thus far. I never really buy the "town got all the best players I guess we've lost" explanation for lost WIM, and personally, find lack of WIM to be pretty NAI overall. If the main thing against him is lack of content, then I think the case is bad, and other than lacking in quantity, his posts have been tonally sound, so, town.

[Cuthillius]

I don't have any problem with your communication this time around, per se. But you very quickly called me, winston, and pizza all villagers pretty easily, when despite the number of words you've written about others, haven't really come to any conclusions. It pings me, ducy.

i don't have much of a lean on winston

i've been burned in the past

i'm not going to maintain that as a read unless i actually can come up with some reason

[GeneralHankerchief]

Okay so I got distracted doing other stuff and was only able to get to Fred and Barto.

Barto I still have no idea on, and probably won't until we get a flip. Wouldn't say no to lynching him but at the same time I fully recognize this is a lazy read. Don't care though.

Fred I feel somewhat better about, I think it was dp(?) who said that while he was around he made some pretty good points, and here I agree pretty much. Seems natural and focused, not really forcing anything. Fred can be town today.

[Cuthillius]

Well, a S P I C Y read was requested. I personally think that being worn out is a pretty likely reason for his volume and play thus far. I never really buy the "town got all the best players I guess we've lost" explanation for lost WIM, and personally, find lack of WIM to be pretty NAI overall. If the main thing against him is lack of content, then I think the case is bad, and other than lacking in quantity, his posts have been tonally sound, so, town.

how so tonally sound

i agree that lack of wim is a bad reason and is generally, including in this case, nai

nevertheless

do you mean "didn't make any obvious wolfslips"

or does the fact that there's a bad case on him make you think he's more villagery

but fair enough i'm fine with this read and the way you phrased it

[Dp101]

how so tonally sound

i agree that lack of wim is a bad reason and is generally, including in this case, nai

nevertheless

do you mean "didn't make any obvious wolfslips"

or does the fact that there's a bad case on him make you think he's more villagery

but fair enough i'm fine with this read and the way you phrased it

No obvious wolfslips and the posting has been honest. I don't particularly care about the fact that other people are wrong on him because atm I'm not sure that scum would pick him as a counterwagon if in danger (assuming we are right on logic).

[Zack]

i don't have much of a lean on winston

i've been burned in the past

i'm not going to maintain that as a read unless i actually can come up with some reason

didn't you just call him a villager?

[Csargo]

Who do you currently look at being mafia? Lets ignore everything that happened so far for now with you and lets look forward together? :)

1. GH
2. Csargo
3. Dp101
4. Pizza
5. Fredwood
6. El Barto
7. Montmorency
8. Zack
9. Cuthillius
10. Manasi
11. Slaan
12. Reinoe
13. Choxorn
14. Winston Hughes
15. Logic
16. Xiahou
17. Kagemusha

Any of the bolded people I'd consider suspicious. Probably throw WH in there for paranoia reasons as well, maybe Zack too for tinfoil reasons.

[Zack]

maybe Zack too for tinfoil reasons.

:rtwno:

[Cuthillius]

didn't you just call him a villager?


but i have no idea why so i'm putting that on hold for now

mepmep3char