Chess - Game Thread [Concluded]

[Csargo]

I’m also unconvinced that Manasi’s out of her town meta, though I’m not entirely sure who else could be scum (maybe Chox, maaaaaaaybe cuth).

This is kinda what has screwed us in the last 4(?) games here. There's been a scum that's been considered lock town, so that's something to keep in mind going forward.

[Manasi]

I'm not mafia.

This game just got more annoying than it was pleasurable. Sure GH flipped wolf but the cases were pretty slim and 72 hour days are the dumbest thing. I thought this was a 48/24 which is still horrible but evidently the timer last I checked said like 2 days 5 hours and I just closed the tab.

It's hard to read this thread with Pizza spam posting whenever the thread is dead with a bunch of nonsense that is just wrong.

That being said, the POE of me into Zack is incorrect. I think we're both villagers.

If it's me or Chox, then it's Chox, but I'm checked out of the game for hte most part and don't really care about how it ends. It's become a generally unpleasant experience and I'm not trying to stick around and argue my case against someone who's just going to post 40 times and have the whole rest of the game follow him blindly.

P sure my Day 1, while slightly sparse, was more active than most of my org games, and if you think this play is anything like my mafia meta, ESPECIALLY on this site, then check again and find another lynch.

I'll check back up in a few hours, don't really expect to be ITT in real time.

[Manasi]

This is kinda what has screwed us in the last 4(?) games here. There's been a scum that's been considered lock town, so that's something to keep in mind going forward.

Are you saying he's wrong in assuming I'm town or wrong in the "villagers" he's calling scum?

[El Barto]

All that whining!

Ten to one that it's scum!Manasi posting that.


vote: choxorn
This was a very bad vote. GH also tried to redirect the vote onto choxorn on D1. You die tomorrow.

Vote: GeneralHandkerchief.

Let's end discussion.

And the best part is not having to worry about whatever it was he was going to claim.
Mmmkay?

I always distrust the hammerer. Why announce that you want to end discussion? Why prevent five players from voting at all?

I wish for a vig shot.

Please and thank you.
And how are you going to bring that about? I don't think being cheesy is enough to convince the host, Mr. pizza.

[Manasi]

Gtfo barto

[Manasi]

You always call me a villager when I'm scum anyway.

[El Barto]

I've just remembered that atpg is a Mato Jelić fan.


Gtfo barto
I seem to have struck a nerve.

You always call me a villager when I'm scum anyway.
A villain, not a villager.

[Manasi]

I've just remembered that atpg is a Mato Jelić fan.


I seem to have struck a nerve.

A villain, not a villager.

I'll fuckin' bite you.

[El Barto]

I'll fuckin' bite you.
So kinky!

Wait, this isn't my PM inbox. Whoops!

[Zack]

I'm not mafia.

This game just got more annoying than it was pleasurable. Sure GH flipped wolf but the cases were pretty slim and 72 hour days are the dumbest thing. I thought this was a 48/24 which is still horrible but evidently the timer last I checked said like 2 days 5 hours and I just closed the tab.

It's hard to read this thread with Pizza spam posting whenever the thread is dead with a bunch of nonsense that is just wrong.

That being said, the POE of me into Zack is incorrect. I think we're both villagers.

If it's me or Chox, then it's Chox, but I'm checked out of the game for hte most part and don't really care about how it ends. It's become a generally unpleasant experience and I'm not trying to stick around and argue my case against someone who's just going to post 40 times and have the whole rest of the game follow him blindly.

P sure my Day 1, while slightly sparse, was more active than most of my org games, and if you think this play is anything like my mafia meta, ESPECIALLY on this site, then check again and find another lynch.

I'll check back up in a few hours, don't really expect to be ITT in real time.

this basically

just kill me

[El Barto]

If it's me or Chox, then it's Chox, but I'm checked out of the game for hte most part and don't really care about how it ends.
I'm sorry you're on the receiving end of a pizzabomb, but you've no right to also try and get choxie schomoxie lynched. As I told Zack:

This was a very bad vote. GH also tried to redirect the vote onto choxorn on D1. You die tomorrow.
do you want to go first, lass?

[Zack]

talking to/about me smugly and condescendingly is one of my biggest pet peeves

I know I've been wrong about a lot, rubbing salt in the wound and taunting me about how wolfy i am etc just pisses me off and it's probably better if I just don't post at all

start figuring out how to solve the game when i flip town

[El Barto]

I know I've been wrong about a lot, rubbing salt in the wound and taunting me about how wolfy i am etc just pisses me off and it's probably better if I just don't post at all
Which does, suspiciously, look a lot like antispew mode. I hope that you do understand my conundrum, my banter with Manasi notwithstanding.

[Kagemusha]

Zack and Manasi are fierce. Reminds me of Bonnie and Clyde, no matter scum or not.

[Dp101]

Which does, suspiciously, look a lot like antispew mode. I hope that you do understand my conundrum, my banter with Manasi notwithstanding.

Basically my position, but I’m not sure exactly what I can do to make the game fun again for you two.

[Dp101]

Basically my position, but I’m not sure exactly what I can do to make the game fun again for you two.

You two referring to Manasi and Zack.

[Kagemusha]

Montmorency have you has time to ISO Cuth?

[El Barto]

It would be hilarious if Pizza was killed tonight and not one of his leads were scum.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I swear to god, Kage, when Zack flips scum you're killing Manasi, not Cuthillius.

You hear me? We're not dragging out this :daisy: game.

You can lynch townies after all the scums are dead. That's the deal.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I'll shoot Manasi tonight instead of Zack just to guaran-effing-tee the game ends on Day 3, because if you're gonna let Manasi go, I have to do it myself.

Day 3 sweep. That's what's gonna happen next. Don't you dare back off of it. That's an order Sexy Boi.

[Kagemusha]

I swear to god, Kage, when Zack flips scum you're killing Manasi, not Cuthillius.

You hear me? We're not dragging out this :daisy: game.

You can lynch townies after all the scums are dead. That's the deal.

Im sleeping with the fishes tomorrow, so dont worry about me...:earmuffs:

[Askthepizzaguy]

Im sleeping with the fishes tomorrow, so dont worry about me...:earmuffs:

Kinky.

Anyway thanks for the gun, secret Santa.

I'm dead sure neither Zack nor Manasi gave me the gun so they can't counterclaim it now.

If Zack or Manasi doesn't die tonight I was roleblocked, you always lynch there. Also gimme that doc protection again if valid to do so.

[Askthepizzaguy]

4 scums in 3 phases. We won't even see Night 3 this game, lock it, take it to the bank.

[Askthepizzaguy]

If they got a roleblocker they can decide for themselves how swiftly the game's gonna end.

If I were them, I wouldn't even roleblock me, I'd just let it happen. It's all over.

[Askthepizzaguy]

And how are you going to bring that about? I don't think being cheesy is enough to convince the host, Mr. pizza.

I never bluff. But yeah if someone holstered last night, they better not tonight.

Risky.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Watch the Santa be like choxorn or Cuth and it lock clears yet another potential mislynch.

The fates have been cruel.

[Csargo]

Are you saying he's wrong in assuming I'm town or wrong in the "villagers" he's calling scum?

I was referring to the latter part of his statement. There's a pretty good chance one of you is scum, and I'd say that's more likely to be Zack than you imo.

You're Schrödinger's Manasi, both town and scum until you flip.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Final score: 4 dead scums, 2 dead townies, pizza survives the game.

[Kagemusha]

Final score: 4 dead scums, 2 dead townies, pizza survives the game.

But Winston and Kage will be for ever remembered! I feel like one of those baggage carriers at old black and white Tarzan movies.:shrug:

[El Barto]

You can lynch townies after all the scums are dead. That's the deal.
I don't think it's in the rules unless we have a divided town setup…


Im sleeping with the fishes tomorrow, so dont worry about me...:earmuffs:Kinky.
That's my line! I want my royalties!

I never bluff.
That, right there, is a bluff.

Final score: 4 dead scums, 2 dead townies, pizza survives the game.
I think I like Kage better.

[Manasi]

Evidently Pizza thinks that killing two townies is gonna avoid dragging the game out.

Think again, honey.

[Zack]

talking to/about me smugly and condescendingly is one of my biggest pet peeves

I know I've been wrong about a lot, rubbing salt in the wound and taunting me about how wolfy i am etc just pisses me off and it's probably better if I just don't post at all

start figuring out how to solve the game when i flip town
:daisy:


4 scums in 3 phases. We won't even see Night 3 this game, lock it, take it to the bank.


If they got a roleblocker they can decide for themselves how swiftly the game's gonna end.

If I were them, I wouldn't even roleblock me, I'd just let it happen. It's all over.


Final score: 4 dead scums, 2 dead townies, pizza survives the game.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Evidently Pizza thinks that killing two townies is gonna avoid dragging the game out.

Think again, honey.

Meh. Lets you not have to play since it's such a bad time.

Again, it's ripping off a band-aid. If you're town, you're relieved of duty and we can figure out where we went wrong later. You won't have to worry about it.

We don't play cat and mouse, it's cruel.

[Dp101]

:daisy:

I am sorry that things are like this.

[El Barto]

Evidently Pizza thinks that killing two townies is gonna avoid dragging the game out.

Think again, honey.
Isn't that what you're gonna do, this night and next?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Time to stop.

Neither are in a joking mood, so let's just advance the phase and deal with things in the AM.

[El Barto]

…we can't advance the phase.

[Kagemusha]

1 hours and 24 minutes until my untimely and unfortunate death. I think il have that cigarette now..

[Askthepizzaguy]

…we can't advance the phase.

We can find a new topic.

My mistake, I got excited about our chances and it's clouded my judgment as to how to behave.

[Manasi]

Meh. Lets you not have to play since it's such a bad time.

Again, it's ripping off a band-aid. If you're town, you're relieved of duty and we can figure out where we went wrong later. You won't have to worry about it.

We don't play cat and mouse, it's cruel.

It'll be great to know that you spammed the entire game being completely wrong and you're just going to shrug it off with a lolmafia.

Enjoy.

I'm out.

[Montmorency]

I don't even think any of those leans are that controversial at this point.

Pretty sure we all solved this game and our only quibbles are exactly where people go in the POE and some folks just haven't had the time to do the work to lock in their fellow lock townies or don't have the same exact brainwave I do on why they're town, but they're gonna get there anyway because we all know where to go next so it doesn't matter.

OK, we see Zack and Manasi have some raw feelings to vent, as you would expect if they were either alignment, but...

I guess your advice would be that if they feel crushed by the game and have no desire to try to deal with it/possible nonsense, then even as townies they need to die (as well for their own sake).

Is there another way? It's a brutal situation. I was already feeling numb to the process and there's no threat of being methodically torn limb from limb by Inquisitor Pizza and his mob.

:shame:

Crushing scum feels easier when the doomed don't pour their hearts hopes and dreams out, and die without a whisper. Right? Tell me other times with relentless POE were more sporting. (I bet it's the role action).


Montmorency have you has time to ISO Cuth?

Not before the end of the night.

[Cuthillius]

i honestly

i don't

i

feel awful not posting, but i have nothing whatsoever to say and i'm incredibly tired

so

hi

and bye again

[Sooh]

Friends.

I come to you with a sad message. Upon arriving here today I heard that yet two more players have left our fold. I can't really get into what happened in too much detail, as it would damage the current investigation.

Instead I can tell you that we are still going to play some more chess today!

Please do check the roster though. Your matches have been redrawn since these two won't be joining us:

Kagemusha was Sergey Karjakin.

http://sportsrediscovered.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Sergey-Karjakin.jpg

You hold the record for being the youngest Grandmaster ever, taking the title at 12 years and 7 months. You have won many championships, including the Chess Olympiads, in which you have secured several medals for Ukraine and later Russia. Your peak rating was 2788.

You are a Vanilla Town.


Zack was Wesley So, a Filipino-American chess grandmaster and current US Chess Champion.

http://en.chessbase.com/Portals/4/files/news/2014/events/capablanca/so01.jpg

You used to be known as a child prodigy, however now that you're all grown up and your records are smashed by the even younger and better you aspire to take the chess throne from one Magnus Carlsen. Your current rating is 2792.

Seeing as you no longer have world domain, you have joined ranks with three other individuals, and in your secret lair you plot for revenge on a chess world that's full of power struggles, drama and sore losers.


EOD 3 is in:
https://pending.me.uk/cd/bla_1507845600.png

[Askthepizzaguy]

Vote: Manasi

[Csargo]

It's def. Manasi...

Vote: Manasi

[Sooh]

Vote count:

Manasi (2): Pizza, Csargo,

Not voting (10): Cuthillius, Slaan, Choxorn, Fredwood, Manasi, Montmorency, El Barto, Xiahou, Dp101, Reinoe

With 12 players there are 7 to hammer.


EOD1:
https://pending.me.uk/cd/bla_1507845600.png

[Manasi]

tfw game becomes hard to tolerate so buddies with friends

it's ok

i'm bad

glglglglglglglgl hammer away fronds.

what a sick wolf team if i was on it they coulda won

[Manasi]

kinda mad @ zack for taking my emotions and going ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ yes this ok i feel this too

fuk u kid

[Askthepizzaguy]

Thanks for the gun, Santa. :san_smiley:

You can stay anonymous. You'll flip the correct role when you die, if you're ever under pressure you can claim it. It shouldn't be counterclaimed except by scum, which is still suicide.

Doc still alive, gift giver still alive.

I'm already fine with a hammer. Whenever you guys are. If it's wrong we can use night for discussion.

[Csargo]

Or maybe Choxorn...

[Dp101]

Santa for president.

[Csargo]

Nah, definitely Manasi...

[Csargo]

Manasi tell me who I should vote for.

[Montmorency]

I did check the thread before this, I see Kage is dead and Zack-scum got vigged. Cool beans, Pizza.


CUTH ISO

Since Kage wanted it. I quote but don't describe or analyze some of the posts that are a bit dense for me or refer to unfamiliar meta. I don't have any conclusions to make about it off the bat.

Cuth has 28 posts, all but one during D1. Here's his N1 post to start off, maybe this way helps to organize the relation between the D1 itself and our knowledge of D2.


so we're sheeping pizza right

still think zack's town, still think dp's probably town

First block of posts (6 posts)

1. Banter with Pizza


pizza there's this guy in one of my classes who reminds me of you quite a lot

it's kinda funny

2. No takes at that stage of early game, (not too long after Pizza hooks onto Logic and 7 hours in). Better to return with rest.


i have no hot takes to drop

feel like getting >twice as much sleep as i did last night and coming back to this thread is probably the best course of action

3. DP a little weird with the reaction test (referencing "SPICY" to Zack given a recent game where DP did that as mafia).


i did think dp's been a bit weird and the reaction test was really... stiff and ???

4. Some comment directed to Logic, I can't decipher it.


also

logic i think i've always assumed you've played chess because y'know

5. DP asks for comments on the push against him (DP). Cuth thinks it's lazy but not very serious or effective.


not much of a push

i think the push itself is p lazy

but yeah someone voted you and you ~steppedish out of thread?

6. DP points out that he removed himself from the game for a spell to cool down from the push. Cuth asks why he thinks he got so upset. DP asks why he felt so antagonized right away, Post 353.


fair enough

why do you think you got particularly upset over that in particular in particular in particular?

Cuth returns most of a day later to drop several blocks over a period of hours, making the largest overall share of his activity. Here's the second overall block of posts (5 posts).



7. Responding at length to a large post by Zack on why [Zack] decided to townread DP, mixed feelings on reinoe, and sussing Winston. Cuth has rested but has similar opinions to before: opposite conclusion on DP's behavior, who might be practicing meta-based WIFOM. Reinoe stood his ground which wolves find aversive, agreeing that it looks decent for reinoe but on meta has come to feel that other scum (players known to Cuth and Zack) can pull it off. Agrees as he talks that DP just "feels" town, though initially he was going to say ~neutral. Ultimately DP is acting in his scum range and he doesn't like how GH and some others are locking him already. Finally, Pizza had one post with town-lean tells.


yeah ok so

this

this addresses a lot of things i want to address

i slept on my thoughts, but my opinions on this game are still fairly similar to what they were

1. you're... i don't think you've giving him as much credit as ye should?

i got the opposite impression, that he was doing it in a really clunky and... calculated way that was obviously gimmicky

this was making sure someone asked him about it, this wasn't lay a little bait to see if you pick it up

i think dp is the sort of player in whose range it would be to say if i do this it will likely be perceived as lol awkward villagery?

2. i would have agreed with you in the past

but lissa in particular and a few others have reacted in a quite similar way as wolves

i do think it's... not bad at all for him

also i

you know

i'm stopping

wrt point three, i was going to say that i thought his game was ~neutral

but as i talk about it i do feel like

the simpler/more straightforward solution here is that he's just a villager

that said, i think it still overlaps somewhat with his wolf range, and i do have an issue with gh/others? locking him in at this stage of the game, especially given weak reasons of meta tells that dp is certainly aware of and well able to use/manipulate at this point

could well be that there are other unspoken reasons but /shrug

also i thought his "pizza has one tell" post was villagery so

8. Expressing bemusement at GH's attempt to wagon him [Cuth].


my what now

9. Reads Zack town. Also thinks Winston is town, but can't figure out why so put that on hold.


zack's a villager

he has all the things i look for, plus being more open/communicative about said things and his thought process

pizza's very probably a villager as well, from posting/gamestate/way people are reacting to him/his attitude towards the game so far

lines up very nicely with the last several villager games i've played with him in the last >year, and not with his wolf games

so

yee

also i think winston's very villagery but i have no idea why so i'm putting that on hold for now

10. Mixed feelings on the limited content from Manasi so far.


manasi who knows

started with content, which is by The Meta wolfy, but was quite aware that she did so and

hasn't really given enough at this point for any reasonable read of much solidity

11. Slaan opened weak and further posting had bad elements, but it's within his town meta.


i remember thinking slaan's opening yesterday was weak

it still lined up with how i feel he can play as villager

his posts since them have also been underwhelming/going in strange directions/unnecessary shadingtypestuff

it still lines up with how i feel he can play as villager

e.g. https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152969-Chess-Game-Thread-In-Play&p=2053761668&viewfull=1#post2053761668

Half an hour later, Block 3 (2 posts).


12. Zack criticizes fencesitting in Cuth's read of DP. Cuth says that's the point, that they more or less agree on DP but Cuth feels less strongly that DP is town.


no that's kinda

the gist?

there is no reason to scumread him, and i do agree with you for the most part, if not to the magnitude that you do

13. To Zack weakly sussing him for going after easy or consensus reads on strong players, Cuth gives a fairly genuine-sound self-meta explaining that he doesn't want to recklessly throw out leans any more and that in this game he has two town reads (DP and ?) and the rest are all wobbly. Zack's response is included below.


...

i honestly don't know how i can be clearer or communicate my thought processes to you better

there was a time when i would have come in with many reads, including very probably several incorrect wolf leans

i've changed, and i have different aims and beliefs about the game than i did when i played with you in the past, for the most part

i legitimately have a wobbly read on everyone in the game except for the two people i have called villagers, as you said

i'm honestly doing my best to show the thoughts i am having

don't really know what else to say, but felt like i should say something

I don't have any problem with your communication this time around, per se. But you very quickly called me, winston, and pizza all villagers pretty easily, when despite the number of words you've written about others, haven't really come to any conclusions. It pings me, ducy.

45 minutes later Block 4 (4 posts) begins, spread out over a slightly longer period of time.



14. Cuth asks DP for a spicy take, and gets Csargo as the answer. Zack wonders if DP distinguishes between not-wolf and town, since even though he doesn't like the Csargo push calling him town is a leap.


dp, gimme a spicy take

15. Cuth tells Zack that he doesn't have much of a read on Winston, who has burned him in the past. His feelings are unstable.


i don't have much of a lean on winston

i've been burned in the past

i'm not going to maintain that as a read unless i actually can come up with some reason

16. GH is popping in around now, and as Pizza (or Kage?) noted he doesn't mention Cuth again despite ostensibly pushing him. As for Cuth, he responds to DP's town-read on Csargo.


how so tonally sound

i agree that lack of wim is a bad reason and is generally, including in this case, nai

nevertheless

do you mean "didn't make any obvious wolfslips"

or does the fact that there's a bad case on him make you think he's more villagery

but fair enough i'm fine with this read and the way you phrased it

17. Zack in turn presses Cuth on calling Winston a villager. Cuth retorts by posting gibberish and quoting where [Cuth] said that he isn't holding on to a read of Winston.


mepmep3char

Block 5 begins half an hour after the end of Block 4 (5 posts).



18. Slaan is calling Cuth's post about him empty words for making knowledge claims about Slaan's meta. Cuth goes into depth.


no? i haven't read a single wolfgame from you, i'm just comparing it to when i have played with you, particularly anni

you just

are going in directions that... i don't expect and i don't think are the most productive, and i'm honestly not going to bother isoing you and quoting more

because it's a relatively thin read from my single read-through of this thread

and there's no huge reason i feel is making me want to or need to figure you out at this point

and... most people didn't have that weak of an opening? or at least felt more natural or, as is probably more applicable in the case, acted like i'm used to them acting, in that i've played with most of them at least multiple times

do you have a particular issue with me talking through a read of you/anyone else if i don't come to a firm conclusion at this point in the game?

19. Continuing with Slaan, some self-meta.


anni i wasn't as sleep-deprived, it was also lategame of a giant mash with tons of information and players as opposed to a relatively small game on d1?

if that makes any tonal differences for ye

20. Slaan feels Cuth's posts aren't good, but maybe he would be more concise as scum. Also, Cuth is lacking a direct agenda, even if that's not a good basis for a townread. A bit of shared meta. Cuth responds laconically.


likewise

21. DP talks to Cuth about shared meta, other people in other games. Cuth expands a bit.


I understand the overall sentiment of this post, but I take issue with this portion of it. You know very well that I am not lissa, or "a few others", and personally, after playing with me for as many games as you have, I would think that you'ld know that I don't often do the expected thing. In particular, I really try and avoid getting heated as a wolf, because I feel it strays too close to the kind of emotional manipulation that makes me feel guilty, as opposed to the more fun gleefully lying about what I feel and why I feel it. Your first post is slightly accurate in that I can certainly imagine myself screwing around a little like that as a wolf, but overall I think I'd only do that at MU. After how fast I was caught as scum the one time I randed it on this website, I'm pretty sure that if it happened again, I'd be really frozen and clunky in my posting out of fear of that same kind of rapid collapse.

yeah i know my point was more that i didn't think she'd react like that in a similar situation, but it did, ergo is possible for you

fair enough

that's kinda where i ended up at the end of the post, figuring you could and you definitely have the ability to, but is probably fairly unlikely given the context

22. Cuth thanks DP for his honesty.


thank you for your honesty

i was actually wondering about that just the tiniest bit

and i completely understand

i think

i hope

Block 6 begins 1.5 hours later, tying off his string of posts for the time being (2 posts). kage is voting Cuth and wants other peoples' takes. Short exchange between Kage and Slaan on how Slaan sees Cuth and how it supports Kage's vote on Cuth.



23. Cuth asks DP if he's having a nice evening. DP isn't, he's very busy, and how is Cuth doing?


hey dp

having a nice evening?

24. Cuth tells DP what he's doing, banters.


ow eesh

tests on weekend? that's rough

i have a goodly amount of homework, but have been slacking and just making cookies and talking on discord

gl with the hw, hope the stuff goes well and you don't have to stay up too late


The rest of his posts () are unorganized, they come toward EOD or the runup.



25. A day after the last block, Winston is looking good and moves up in the pile. Pizza's gut reaction is to town-read this post, with long post and further discussion on Cuth and various matters.


winston's stuff recently looks good

i like what he's doing and where he's going

movin' him up

Up to this post GH says Cuth looks a bit better than before, but isn't there yet. Slaan questions his impression of Cuth as a strong player.

Another favorable read post on Cuth by Pizza.


Strikes me as a real thought townies have.

It may not be a perfect process, but I often have to juggle who I invest my time in. I often deliberately put some people in a vaguely town or vaguely suspect limbo state and wait until they do more, or I have more time, to tackle the slot.

I feel like such thoughts go missing from a scum-perspective. That's not on the forefront of their mind which is why this is more town indicative when you see it.

It's not widely thought of as a town tell so only the truly best scum actors should be faking this brainwave.

That should mean I have a strong town read on Cuth by now. I don't think my gut has caught up to my head.

26. Cuth thinks Monty interacting with or pairing Zack-Winston early in the game was weird. It's not game related but Monty is trying to force it to be (?).


monty's interaction with winston/zack at the beginning of the game is really really weird

i just

don't think it's particularly game-related

it

still really just bothers me a little

i feel like he drags something that's unrelated anything out for no discernable reason?

it's not even fluff or stuff, it just feels like it's taking fluff and... almost trying to get it to a game-related area without doing so?

probably reading into it too much

27. Logic's post on being confused by Pizza's posting in a way similar to DP feels discredit-y.


this post feels mildly discredit-y

[Montmorency]

You know, it's kind of amazing. We got (I'ma say we, don't get too arrogant here Pizza) a Zack-GH pairing eliminated so quickly. I feel empowered.

The last scum is very likely a low-poster. It seems we all know the score. Vote: Manasi

I'm should be arguing caution (here and on the race to lock town reads), but it's tempting - Askthepizzaguy, do you think you want to put together one of those "epic" posts with the gifs and formatted text walls and embedded musics?

[Montmorency]

Actually. Unvote

Should we take today easy, or do we really rush through the hammer.

[Montmorency]

Now, my opinion summarized of the Cuth ISO:

Positive, genuine interactions with DP and Slaan are the best feature.

Generally a standard Cuth approach to the game and to thinking about things (though I've never seen him scum).

On GH-Logic spew that Pizza emphasizes, if it's two different scum doing separate things with Cuth, then for a D1 state that does look fairly clearing.

But it has to be re-evaluated in the last few rounds I think, if the game isn't over.

[Montmorency]

Oh yeah, and I should note that Zack displayed some aggression and nitpicking toward Cuth in the middle of the day.

[Dp101]

Now, my opinion summarized of the Cuth ISO:

Positive, genuine interactions with DP and Slaan are the best feature.

Generally a standard Cuth approach to the game and to thinking about things (though I've never seen him scum).

On GH-Logic spew that Pizza emphasizes, if it's two different scum doing separate things with Cuth, then for a D1 state that does look fairly clearing.

But it has to be re-evaluated in the last few rounds I think, if the game isn't over.

Side note, Cuth interactions with me that were genuine were fairly low key/not entirely game related, so I’m not sure how much they contribute to his innocence or lack thereof. Currently I’d place him at a bit above null.

In other news, I’m starting to wonder if there was even a purpose to me playing this game, given that my play has basically been watching Pizza solve everything and following. I mean, I kinda outed GH and Zack with my CFD opinion, but as much as I wish that I could call that a deliberate gambit, I was simply giving my honest thoughts at that point.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I'm should be arguing caution (here and on the race to lock town reads), but it's tempting - @Askthepizzaguy, do you think you want to put together one of those "epic" posts with the gifs and formatted text walls and embedded musics?

I don't feel like doing anything right now.

Basically the only thing I'm prepared to discuss is why the people I've said are town are not town.

Until someone comes to me with something reasonable (which, be forewarned, I disagree with and am a skeptical audience, so don't expect me to roll over) I am prepared to POE this out.

Now, if someone wolfy crawled sky high in my and everyone's leans lists, good for them. Let the people who live to endgame sort it out.

Everything important that happened happened on day 1.

If Manasi was up to playing the game I'd be interested in hearing her thoughts, but since it's been I'm scum, and wrong, all game long, and she's stated she's not having fun, I'm more inclined to give her DVC asap. No more posturing or walls from me, no more AtE from anyone else.

[Slaan]

Huh, didn't think actually that Zack is mafia (or rather would've killed manasi/chox before him), nice :)

I'm with just hammering down our PoE at this point. I'd start looking at others when the last mafia isnt among manasi or chox... but I doubt that will be necessary.

Vote: Manasi

[Askthepizzaguy]

Side note, Cuth interactions with me that were genuine were fairly low key/not entirely game related, so I’m not sure how much they contribute to his innocence or lack thereof. Currently I’d place him at a bit above null.

In other news, I’m starting to wonder if there was even a purpose to me playing this game, given that my play has basically been watching Pizza solve everything and following. I mean, I kinda outed GH and Zack with my CFD opinion, but as much as I wish that I could call that a deliberate gambit, I was simply giving my honest thoughts at that point.

Don't you do this.

If you forgot your day one, you said certain things looked townie and I was like incorrect at you. And you said that GH and Zack's cfd on you was scummy, and had to get me to even re-read it because I never read it. And it still didn't sink in the first couple times I read it. I was almost ready to let them go because it looked too wrong and strategically bad to be scummy.

Just because someone else is having a good game doesn't diminish yours. Check the scoresheet when the game is over, and the stuff that's in column "Dp101 thought of it first and was right when pizza was wrong" is going to include multiple things in it.

Also I spent most of day one calling Zack and GH town. Go me.

We have but one player to look up to, and that is the wise prophet Winston Hughes, reaver of scums. He died for our sins.

[Montmorency]

*stiff salute*

Vote: Manasi

[Askthepizzaguy]

If there's nothing being said in this thread, and you want to do something with this game, go back to page one and read the game knowing Zack, GH, and Logic were all scum.

Look for townies and tell me why. That's all we have to do, since day 2 and day 3 and every day going forward is utterly meaningless compared to that day, and until we start lynching townies, nothing matters here.

There's one scum left. Tell me who is not that person.

[El Barto]

Which does, suspiciously, look a lot like antispew mode. I hope that you do understand my conundrum, my banter with Manasi notwithstanding.
I was right.

It'll be great to know that you spammed the entire game being completely wrong and you're just going to shrug it off with a lolmafia.

Enjoy.

I'm out.
And more anti-spew, we seem to have.

Askthepizzaguy, do you think you want to put together one of those "epic" posts with the gifs and formatted text walls and embedded musics?
No, don't do that. You know what happens when you dare him.

If there's nothing being said in this thread, and you want to do something with this game, go back to page one and read the game knowing Zack, GH, and Logic were all scum.

Look for townies and tell me why. That's all we have to do, since day 2 and day 3 and every day going forward is utterly meaningless compared to that day, and until we start lynching townies, nothing matters here.
I can do that. In fact, I never got around to reading the first 500 posts so this is a good way to get me to read the game. But don't expect the sort of über-townie effort from the XCOM mafia game.

There's one scum left. Tell me who is not that person.
Me. It's in my rôle PM.

[Askthepizzaguy]

As of right now, choxorn is having that nightmare where I'm a scum role cop, and I found the town doctor, and I've been bussing all my teammates and will now solo hero the game in epic fashion, never dying because obvious town pizza is doctor protected.

Worse, he's the doctor again.

I've come back from your past and I'm unna eat choo.

[Askthepizzaguy]

And more anti-spew, we seem to have.

It's technically not anti-spew as if they die the game is over.

The final scumbag whoever it is has nothing to lose, and can be ultra mega townie now if they want.

[El Barto]

As of right now, choxorn is having that nightmare where I'm a scum role cop, and I found the town doctor, and I've been bussing all my teammates and will now solo hero the game in epic fashion, never dying because obvious town pizza is doctor protected.

Worse, he's the doctor again.

I've come back from your past and I'm unna eat choo.
You do know that if Manasi's not scum your head rolls next, don't you?

[Dp101]

You do know that if Manasi's not scum your head rolls next, don't you?

SPICY

[Askthepizzaguy]

You do know that if Manasi's not scum your head rolls next, don't you?

They see me rollin'

They hatin

[Manasi]

Hammer me pls I don't have the time or patience to fight this.

[Csargo]

:love:

[Csargo]

Vote: Abstain

[Askthepizzaguy]

I'm actually less well known for rolling. Although you might see me spinning.

I used to be the rotating GM in-residence at the St. Louis Chess center, after all.



https://i.imgur.com/RGviY5k.gif

Get it? rotating GM?

Hi-larious.

[El Barto]

It's technically not anti-spew as if they die the game is over.
I don't honestly think they really thought that your pointing a finger

The final scumbag whoever it is has nothing to lose, and can be ultra mega townie now if they want.

SPICY
Absolutely. A severed head is considered to be a delicacy in Scandinavia, along with rotten fish and boiled potatoes. My version is done avec curry powder.

They see me rollin'

They hatin
That could well be.

[El Barto]

Hammer me pls I don't have the time or patience to fight this.
vote: Manasi

Even if you're town you've just become a policy lynch. See you next game, lass!

[Cuthillius]

vote:Manasi

meh i was wrong on zack

lol

kinda glad i was tbh but

manasi makes sense from how he talked about her d1 as well i guess

[El Barto]

We're one vote away by my reckoning, with Cuthillius' vote and mine.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Me. It's in my rôle PM.

ôrly?

I'll have you know that Ben Finegold is a huge MVL fan.

[El Barto]

If you're going to speak the language of the cheese-eating surrender monkeys then I'll use the proper punctuation. Hence, rôle.

[Askthepizzaguy]

We're one vote away by my reckoning, with Cuthillius' vote and mine.

Csargo changed to abstain. L-2

[El Barto]

Csargo changed to abstain. L-2
Oh right, and Manasi isn't self-voting.

[Dp101]

Vote: Manasi I guess.

[El Barto]

So, right now…


Manasi: Pizza, Monty, Slaan, El Barto, Cuthillius, Dp101 (6)
Abstain: Csargo (1)

Not voting: the rest (5)

[Csargo]

Vote: Manasi

[GeneralHankerchief]

That is a hammer.

Manasi has been lynched. Assume it is now the twilight phase until and unless Sooh says otherwise. You may begin sending her orders if you wish.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I'm only on page 4 of the re-read. Guess I'll continue then.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Actually this might cause discussion to happen finally.

Who next after Manasi? Place your bets.

[El Barto]

Oh, come on, GH, you of all people could just tell us.

;)

[Askthepizzaguy]

Oh, come on, GH, you of all people could just tell us.

;)

He did, by asking for orders.

Game isn't over, let's keep looking.

[El Barto]

He did, by asking for orders.
Which I think he'd've done anyway. Also, he could tell us who the last mafioso/a is. I'd give him a handy sum in lire for the next rock-paper-scissors game at MU.

[El Barto]

It is a mindgame within a mindgame. *wiggles fingers in midair*

[Askthepizzaguy]

Which I think he'd've done anyway.

True.

Manasi looked like she was gonna be steamrolled today anyway. It's pretty plausible that he's got orders to tell people to send in night actions so we can keep things moving. And if we had guessed right today he'd still say the same thing.

He used to be the king of the slow roll fake reveals. But he's not hosting so it's up to Sooh to do that kind of stuff. Hence he's always going to say send in orders.

Still. Could have always just said nothing, as of course, if the game were truly over, nothing we do at this point matters. So I'm inclined to believe the game still continues.

[El Barto]

Let's not metagame it too much. You're the wrong person to be awake and in front of the screen in that household right now. :clown:

[Askthepizzaguy]

Let's not metagame it too much. You're the wrong person to be awake and in front of the screen in that household right now. :clown:

I am in too deep. I can't rest until I'm dead or every scum is dead.

You know this.

[Xiahou]

19923
Man, you go away for half a day and look what happens?

[El Barto]

I am in too deep. I can't rest until I'm dead or every scum is dead.

You know this.
Hey, I'm the one who changes his avatar for every game.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Alright. Looking what I know.

Skipping Csargo.

dp101, the sudden move onto him by GH and Zack if they know it wasn't likely to result in a lynch could be some kind of distancing maneuver. But when dp101 never dies, that's a silly idea. Plus, his frustration with reinoe looked real. And I have a big ole post telling me not to look here written by a friend of mine, askthepizzaguy, who I know is town.

Fredwood looked pretty good from GH spew.

Skipping El Barto.

Montmorency is lock. He's not faking it.

Cuth, think GH and Logic spew make him look good.

Slaan I'm not touching until like f3

Reinoe super lock based on the Zack/Logic stuff on d1.

Choxorn bussed everyone relentlessly and I don't think GH and Zack freak out to try to get scum choxorn lynched and then out themselves attacking dp, if he's their partner. Instead they just push him and look good later when town gets confused, or die and he looks good. So it's not choxxybabee.

Between Csargo and Barto, I'd go Barto I guess.

[Askthepizzaguy]

But I still got time to sort it out.

If it's something more ingenious than this, and they got into my blues or teals, I'm not finding it while I'm alive.

So, sorting out again why Csargo is town or Barto is town while I re-read.

[El Barto]

So, sorting out again why Csargo is town or Barto is town while I re-read.
I told you, it's in my Rôle PM.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Xiahou on the other side of the player list, past the colored names.

don't think so. He's lock from his votes methinks.

[El Barto]

Also from spew, pizza: I've never mislynched.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I told you, it's in my Rôle PM.

If you're scum you can confess to me. It's okay, I won't kill you. I'm all out of bullets.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Also from spew, pizza: I've never mislynched.

Except for Manasi, amirite.

[Csargo]

It is a mindgame within a mindgame. *wiggles fingers in midair*

https://i.imgur.com/JfHIdlY.gif

[Askthepizzaguy]

Alright.

That re-read was good.

I see you now, Barto. Glad I put you at third from the bottom.

You bussed a little bit on the outed wolves, but that's not enough. GG.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I'd never lynch choxorn before you. So my new legacy read is that Manasi was the one villager we lynched this game, and Barto ends it.

Plus he's lolcatting, which I can actually see now that I've spent time actually reading his posts. Hasn't been a priority until now.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I was never gonna see it until we lynched Manasi. I had a bit of a scummy vibe on you d1 but it all faded into nothing as you distanced from Zack and bussed GH when he outed himself.

Manasi just lynched fewer wolves than you did. Had to go first. Thanks for all your help, Bart man.

[Askthepizzaguy]

You managed to get us to bust up the golden sweep tho.

:applause:

A moral victory for sure! I actually have egg on my face now.

[Askthepizzaguy]

So, @ All townies:

Put control + F into your browser, and spend 30 minutes looking for all instances of "Barto", from d1 until now.

Watch his interactions with the outed scums and known dead townies.

Note that Zack was under pressure and he was as well on day one, it's to his benefit to distance.

Note that GH was well and truly outed when he got on that idea early.

That's what he did this game for town credit, but the outed scums don't actually talk about him that much. He's good and in most people's blind spots, except for the couple fans that kept him as scummy for a bit.

It's much clearer when viewed in sequence.

Let me know what you think.

[Askthepizzaguy]

It's also a lot easier when keeping in mind who is townie and for what reason.

I only had two people to really look at. :shrug:

Clear separation between him and choxorn. Would have been nice to see it before running Manasi over with a truck, but I could honestly give a damn at this point. 10 townies was a solve regardless.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Me about five hours ago:

"I am so tempted to switch this to Manasi, but I honestly don't think it matters, and if it does, I'm not in a good enough frame of mind to figure it out. Starting to get grumpy with all the AtE. Leaving it on Zack."

Turns out it did matter. There would have been two scums alive today if I had done that, and then I don't know if I can actually get Zack lynched. Even after GH's flip people were still shocked.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Seeing as it is now 430 am, and the game is still locked, and the last wolf is outed/lolcatting, gonna call it a night.

Your homework assignment is to read barto and tell me why he's town. If you don't think he is, you know what to do tomorrow.

Winston voted him d1 as well, so his streak is still alive.

[Askthepizzaguy]

choxorn.

Csargo.

Friggen c names.

[El Barto]

https://i.imgur.com/JfHIdlY.gif
That made me laugh almost as sitting for an exam and coming to see atpg's sleep-deprived nonsense.

:laugh4:

Also, someone give GH something, he's laughing himself silly.

(and I'm really laughing in front of the screen right now)

[Dp101]

That made me laugh almost as sitting for an exam and coming to see atpg's sleep-deprived nonsense.

:laugh4:

Also, someone give GH something, he's laughing himself silly.

(and I'm really laughing in front of the screen right now)

so wait are you actually scum or no?

[El Barto]

so wait are you actually scum or no?
Of course I am not scum. Have I ever lied to you?

[Dp101]

Of course I am not scum. Have I ever lied to you?

Well, of course, but I'm not entirely sure how you want me to believe you here, or rather, how you want me to read you at all, ever, in any game I play with you.

[Sooh]

THAT'S A HAMMER!!


Manasi (7): Pizza, Slaan, Montmorency, El Barto, Cuthillius, Dp101, Csargo,

Not voting (5): Choxorn, Fredwood, Manasi, Xiahou, Reinoe

With 12 players there are 7 to hammer.

[Sooh]

Again a round of rapid chess.

I don't see why not, it went so well last time!

Here are your results:

Manasi was Mikhail Tal.

http://www.academicchess.org/images/ericspics/picturesofchampions/tal5.jpg

Hailing from the Latvian part of the Soviet Union you won the title of Grandmaster at the young age of 21, even though you hadn't participated in enough international tournaments to be awarded it. In 1960-61 you were the world champion of chess. Your peak rating was 2705.

You are a Vanilla Town.

EON 3:
https://pending.me.uk/cd/bla_1507759200.png

[Dp101]

lolus

[Dp101]

I am actually sorry about that manasi. I drank Pizza's kool-aid and caused an unfortunate death.

INB4 he's actually finally bussing to the max and is going to kill all of us, and originally planned not to but decided he could get enough cred from killing GH and Zack after EOD1 to get to the end.

[Montmorency]

Seeing as it is now 430 am, and the game is still locked, and the last wolf is outed/lolcatting, gonna call it a night.

Your homework assignment is to read barto and tell me why he's town. If you don't think he is, you know what to do tomorrow.

Winston voted him d1 as well, so his streak is still alive.

Pizza, one thing to realize is that if we're trying to go by, 'kill the guyys who is not least likely to be on the scum team', then it kind of restricts freedom of movement as far as making cases and the day-work overall.

Let me suggest a new angle: what if something that looks like effective spew is actually emerging from a serious mistake by one or more mafia members? I say this because in the end you can't clean up at the early game like this without having taken advantage of serious mistakes by the opponent.

I think what Manasi's case means is we shouldn't restrict ourselves to one rung of the ladder at a time. And right now it's kind of impossible to proceed if you have literally no candidates other than Barto because they're all lock clear. If you've gone wrong somewhere, then where could it have been? Now you need to pick apart the layers of your own world model, 'if I'm mistaken here then it's possible that over there...', and you need to do it from inside your personal process because as you said unless I pull out some really unique logic on a specific instance you're going to wave it aside by referencing the casework you've already built. And it's important because we (me and you and likely the rest of the players) share the same upper half of the town/reads pile, and I think we're uneasy.

TLDR: Treat this like nothing is sacred, rather than trying to find who is least lock-clear and lynching them without reference to anyone else.

It's not a POE if it's a special selection to create one every time.


As far as workload, how about I work the devil's advocate on your core core town, the consensus upper half, relying on your own long analyses from N1 on why they're lock town, if you work devil's advocate on the bottom half, people like reinoe and Xiahou (and sure, me and Csargo too)?



And unrelated, but I've seen reinoe (and Slaan?) referred to here as both he/him and she/her. What do they in fact use?

[reinoe]

Meh. El Barto vs Manasi was a choice anyone could have made. Unsure why Manasi wasn't having a good time with the game so maybe outside factors? Sorry about being missing, I was entertaining a guest from out of town that I wasn't expecting. If it's not El Barto or Choxorn then there's gonna have to be serious re-assessments done though.

[Slaan]

God damnit manasi. Do we actually have to do work now?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Defend every wolf, complain ad nauseam, say I'm just wrong, do no work, find no townies.

Dies and is a townie.

I'm not gonna fall over myself and feel bad about that. Providing cover for woofs means you go.

[Slaan]

Sure sure.

Rereading the thread now a bit (for the next 20ish minutes at least) and I'm on page 6 rn. dp and Monty both spewed town from Zack imo.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I'm not going to break my town circle because we hit one bump in the road that was doing nothing but helping wolves.

So you guys can if you like, I know where my vote is going. Do whatcha want.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Sure sure.

Rereading the thread now a bit (for the next 20ish minutes at least) and I'm on page 6 rn. dp and Monty both spewed town from Zack imo.


This ^^^^ is basically all I'm asking.

If people don't like my town circle, make your own do your own work. Been asking since N1.

You can find enough townies to lock the game.

[Slaan]

Csargo also spewed a bit town imo after post 187 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152969-Chess-Game-Thread-In-Play&p=2053761117&viewfull=1#post2053761117) and prev interactions with Zack. I just don't think Csargo is the kind of player that would post that openly from what I've seen so far but write smth like that in wolfschat. Weak read though.

[Slaan]

Who is complaining pizza? Also for the most part I've been doing my own thing, just happens that I ended up at the same place you are ^^. Notable exceptions that I didnt necessarily thought Zack was scum or that Winston was town but the rest fits my impression as well.. lets see how the reread is going though.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Who is complaining pizza? Also for the most part I've been doing my own thing, just happens that I ended up at the same place you are ^^. Notable exceptions that I didnt necessarily thought Zack was scum or that Winston was town but the rest fits my impression as well.. lets see how the reread is going though.

Got triggered a bit by a comment about Manasi and "Pizza's Kool-aid"

It's made out of wolf blood mixed with defending all the wolf blood. My apologies.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Given how much Zack and GH both defended Logic, given how much Zack and GH both defended each other, once I saw Zack and Manasi doing/saying nothing except how bad the game was and how I'm just pushing on poor poor townies, I really don't wanna hear it.

That's a normal assumption to make and a lot of other folks agreed.

[Slaan]

Dp lock town after Logic and GH bring him up in quick sucession (and not much else)... especially GH's post Post 220 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152969-Chess-Game-Thread-In-Play&p=2053761150&viewfull=1#post2053761150) where he calls Zack and dp as 'okay'... doubt he puts in both wolves here... in addition zack went after dp earlier a bit... yea dp locked down

[Slaan]

Oh yea, I wanted Manasi dead before Zack for sure so it's really not your fault :)

[Askthepizzaguy]

Oh yea, I wanted Manasi dead before Zack for sure so it's really not your fault :)

no. Just annoyed a little by a comment.

Felt it was out of proportion and I needed to say something.

In any case, I've done all the work I'm ever going to do this game.

I spent many a sleepless night working on my POE. If it's wrong someone can tell me why like I asked. Done losing sleep over this game.

[Slaan]

Ugh GH's and Zacks open discussions makes it really hard to be sure about any spew though... bleh

[reinoe]

Upon re-read I think I'd like to lynch Choxorn over El Barto.

Barto had some early criticism of Zack that didn't look like bussing.


While briefly being discussed, earlier I'd like to mention Cuth is slightly spewed.

[Slaan]

no. Just annoyed a little by a comment.

Felt it was out of proportion and I needed to say something.

In any case, I've done all the work I'm ever going to do this game.

I spent many a sleepless night working on my POE. If it's wrong someone can tell me why like I asked. Done losing sleep over this game.

I think you've lost a lot of sleep over it already ^^

[Askthepizzaguy]

Whichever. Also as I don't have any special powers, feel free to doc protect elsewhere. I don't really want DVC but I'm fine with being retired.

Protect at the top of my town, not me anymore. Thanks.

[Slaan]

Oh shit reinoe lock town


Given Zack commenting on pretty much everyone except Logic, he's either scum with him or mason with him or neighbors with him. I think they're talking to each other.

Regardless, Zack's quality vs quantity isn't very good at all. There's almost no gamesolving other than OMGUS.

Unvote: Logic

Vote: Zack

ATPG and GH probably town.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Is there an echo in here, slaan? :P

Luv u Slaan. Thanks for playing here. It's been a pleasure.

[Dp101]

Got triggered a bit by a comment about Manasi and "Pizza's Kool-aid"

It's made out of wolf blood mixed with defending all the wolf blood. My apologies.

Yeah, sorry about that, I just felt rather awful after killing someone who seemed so down on everything.

[Slaan]

Nah you gonna survive, don't worry about it. Wouldnt let you exit his purgatory until you've done your holy mission!

(This might be bait so I'm getting targeted instead.)

PS: Ty for having me, it's been indeed fun and suprisingly crushing so far.

[Slaan]

[url=https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152969-Chess-Game-Thread-In-Play&p=2053761488&viewfull=1#post2053761488]Post 481[/post] from Zack seems to also spew Kage, me and Fred. I don't think it's often that mafia will ask a partner to explain a read on a 3rd mafia... what are you experiences on that?

[Slaan]

Post 481 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152969-Chess-Game-Thread-In-Play&p=2053761488&viewfull=1#post2053761488) from Zack seems to also spew Kage, me and Fred. I don't think it's often that mafia will ask a partner to explain a read on a 3rd mafia... what are you experiences on that?

€dit

[Slaan]

Just gonna keep reading for the next hour and a half in case I actually get ripped. Wanted to play Witcher 3 but meh, mafia more important!

[Slaan]

Barto probably town after this:


Vote: El Barto

If you're not going to do anything except take side shots, you can die.

Zack has defended Logic before who was similarily iffy as Barto so I'd assume he'd low key defend Barto as well.. or at least not go after him. Overall it seems that Zack/GH tried to powerwolf the shit out of this game which spectacularly failed so far. Same for Cuth basically.

[Montmorency]

I'm not going to break my town circle because we hit one bump in the road that was doing nothing but helping wolves.

So you guys can if you like, I know where my vote is going. Do whatcha want.

Don't break it, but if you're wrong you will have to, so like, expect the best but prepare for the worst. What could you have possibly missed? Game out scenarios reviewing your own stated logic and observations N1.



One important principle: Given how GH and Zack defended Logic D1, and then rolled over D2-3, they clearly did not plan for Logic to die. So it's probably not mutual hard bussing from D1 (wrt scum #4 I mean).

I did Cuth recently and in this light, town Cuth is consistent.

Xiahou's vote on Zack would therefore be consistent with scum distancing.

Reinoe picking at Logic and Zack simultaneously, town-consistent. But he did that in his early ISO, so his whole day needs to be reviewed.

Choxorn and Zack sussing each other (Zack harder), the former defending Barto and the latter attacking, then late-day both Zack and GH landing votes on Choxorn without any discussion and veering off at the very end is the sole plausible bussing maneuver. Pizza discussed this as possible bussing here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152969-Chess-Game-Thread-In-Play&p=2053763008&viewfull=1#post2053763008); I'd add the possibility of a distancing feint, with the CFD being a way to ensure that Choxorn would not be lynched while . Note that after D1 Zack's significant comments were aimed at GH, Manasi, Monty, Slaan, DP, Choxorn, or Pizza. This, during N1:


This is choxorn's only post so far.

This is what he found important to point out.

And he voted Choxorn D2, which could be planned spew.

And going down the D2 Zack-Choxorn well (not in chrono roder):


That sequence made me think, hey, I'll give him space to work and do his thing. But he's not made much use of it.

I'd be lying if I said some it isn't also just, there are a good number of people who are cleared or at least look good from yesterday. POE and all.

I think Chox is a better lynch still, fwiw.

Shading Barto and Choxorn.


This gamestate is probably too easy, I'm guessing there's at least one wolf who was balls deep in Logic's lynch. Can't count the number of games where wolves made a hard d1 bus that bought them some time in the short term.

That said, it's not worth too much concern yet.

One of several posts since EOD1 I believe that insisted upon there being hard bussing around Logic. Now that GH and Zack have flipped - perhaps we could say he was lying?


I can't think of anyone off the top of my head who is even that wolfy right now, other than Barto and Choxorn. Maybe Monty or DP for what I still think were red flag EODs. Someone should take a closer look at the wagons.

I'm in an offsite game that starts tomorrow and will be much more active than this one, and Shadow of War comes out on Tuesday. Things seem to be well in hand anyways, don't need me much.

Shading Barto and Choxorn, and also Monty and DP over EOD events.


But I'm getting into digression. The principle for reviewing D1 should be distancing but not bussing.

Slaan and DP are too much to chew for now. I'll go ahead with the others for now.

[Csargo]

I am actually sorry about that manasi. I drank Pizza's kool-aid and caused an unfortunate death.

INB4 he's actually finally bussing to the max and is going to kill all of us, and originally planned not to but decided he could get enough cred from killing GH and Zack after EOD1 to get to the end.

This is the second comment you've made that weirds me out about your alignment. I'm pretty sure you're town, but Manasi was a pretty good option given how she was playing.

[Dp101]

This is the second comment you've made that weirds me out about your alignment. I'm pretty sure you're town, but Manasi was a pretty good option given how she was playing.

A good option tactically, but I still felt bad about it.

[Fredwood]

So what are you saying? I read that post and it looks like you're saying everyone in the POE was spewed clear by Zack.

Also, why did they not expect the Logic flip? An impending lynch on Logic was evident since 12 hours into the game. As far as the hard bussing comment, the only person that gets credit for the Logic lynch in my eyes is Pizza, so I think that was just a veiled attempt at attacking Pizza's cred.

[Fredwood]

So what are you saying? I read that post and it looks like you're saying everyone in the POE was spewed clear by Zack.

Also, why did they not expect the Logic flip? An impending lynch on Logic was evident since 12 hours into the game. As far as the hard bussing comment, the only person that gets credit for the Logic lynch in my eyes is Pizza, so I think that was just a veiled attempt at attacking Pizza's cred.

that was to Monty.

[Csargo]

Given how much Zack and GH both defended Logic, given how much Zack and GH both defended each other, once I saw Zack and Manasi doing/saying nothing except how bad the game was and how I'm just pushing on poor poor townies, I really don't wanna hear it.

That's a normal assumption to make and a lot of other folks agreed.

I think you're too intense early, but I'm guessing that's because you die pretty early in most games I would imagine. I was thinking about this earlier, the amount of information, analysis, etc. that you contribute has an extremely positive effect no doubt there, but think it could lead to an information overload type of deal. Just my random musings.

[Slaan]

Alright, I've finished reading up until page30... so not even through D1 >_>. My thoughts now with 20min to go:

2. Csargo - Was shaded a bit by the powerwolf duo so I have him slightly townish but is in my PoE
3. Dp101 - lock town, the spew looks really good.. everything looks really good with him imo.
4. Pizza - lockiest of locks
5. Fredwood - ... feels overall towny from tone and all but other than that has not much going for him imo
6. El Barto - The way Zack/GH defended Logic and then turned around and wanted to kill Barto makes me think Barto is town. You don't defend a scum buddy to then turn around and attack another scum buddy right away.... especially one that had an imo real chance of working out.
7. Montmorency - Imo fine after Post 652 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152969-Chess-Game-Thread-In-Play&p=2053761701&viewfull=1#post2053761701). F5 candidate
9. Cuthillius - uah felt really bad the posts I've read of him.... with not much stuff clearing him. Defo in PoE
11. Slaan - lock town
12. Reinoe - strong town read
13. Choxorn - Would have to reread exactly how Zack/GH's attitude was against him as I don't quite recall for most of D1... it was low key shading but not really iirc... nothing with bite at least. Only towards then end (that only from memory since I havent reread as far) they went after him hard but at this point the logic flip was assured so this could've been just pure anti-spew to try and balancing their powerwolfing a bit. Considering I also didnt like his posts... #1 candidaten
16. Xiahou - I've only reread 2 posts so far and nothing clearing for him. I think GH and Zack not going after him but after bart makes Xiahou slightly scummy.

So I'd kill Chox -> Xia -> Csargo -> Cuth -> Fred currently

Will do more rereading tomorrow in case I'm still alive.

[Montmorency]

So what are you saying? I read that post and it looks like you're saying everyone in the POE was spewed clear by Zack.

Also, why did they not expect the Logic flip? An impending lynch on Logic was evident since 12 hours into the game. As far as the hard bussing comment, the only person that gets credit for the Logic lynch in my eyes is Pizza, so I think that was just a veiled attempt at attacking Pizza's cred.

I'm not sure what you're misunderstanding. I did not talk about mass spew and I say scum did not expect a Logic flip in the sense that they didn't take it for granted, nor were they driving it; in fact they seemed to be spending most of the day trying to prevent it. Therefore, what this probably means for the final scum is that they were not doing active bussing with either Logic (as Zack claimed D2) or bussing/being bussed by Zack or GH. Therefore, look for controlled distancing.

[Slaan]

Monty: Agreed on basically all points. I think the shade towards Cuth was very slim though and could be low key bussing... considering it was (iirc) mostly about his weak pop in early which Cuth could easily recover from. The way they instead went after Barto makes me leave Cuth in my PoE

[Fredwood]

Alright, I've finished reading up until page30... so not even through D1 >_>. My thoughts now with 20min to go:

2. Csargo - Was shaded a bit by the powerwolf duo so I have him slightly townish but is in my PoE
3. Dp101 - lock town, the spew looks really good.. everything looks really good with him imo.
4. Pizza - lockiest of locks
5. Fredwood - ... feels overall towny from tone and all but other than that has not much going for him imo
6. El Barto - The way Zack/GH defended Logic and then turned around and wanted to kill Barto makes me think Barto is town. You don't defend a scum buddy to then turn around and attack another scum buddy right away.... especially one that had an imo real chance of working out.
7. Montmorency - Imo fine after Post 652 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152969-Chess-Game-Thread-In-Play&p=2053761701&viewfull=1#post2053761701). F5 candidate
9. Cuthillius - uah felt really bad the posts I've read of him.... with not much stuff clearing him. Defo in PoE
11. Slaan - lock town
12. Reinoe - strong town read
13. Choxorn - Would have to reread exactly how Zack/GH's attitude was against him as I don't quite recall for most of D1... it was low key shading but not really iirc... nothing with bite at least. Only towards then end (that only from memory since I havent reread as far) they went after him hard but at this point the logic flip was assured so this could've been just pure anti-spew to try and balancing their powerwolfing a bit. Considering I also didnt like his posts... #1 candidaten
16. Xiahou - I've only reread 2 posts so far and nothing clearing for him. I think GH and Zack not going after him but after bart makes Xiahou slightly scummy.

So I'd kill Chox -> Xia -> Csargo -> Cuth -> Fred currently

Will do more rereading tomorrow in case I'm still alive.

Except Zack and GH both tried to push me sloppily like they did DP and flinched when Winston and I started sussing GH for it. Winston sussed harder and I wasn't really interested in pushing for a GH day 1 lynch, 1 cus it's GH 2 because there was no point against fighting the logic lynch. Basically putting me in any form of POE is ridiculous if you don't also have DP in the same POE.

[Slaan]

You werent much of a Discussion point for the most part imo... and dp had way more interactions with Zack that spew him town hard in my book. I have you at the end of my PoE and will probably reconsider everything before we get another 5 lynches in (or hope that the game is over/I'm dead) but I wouldnt set you on a equal level as dp... never.

[Montmorency]

6. El Barto - The way Zack/GH defended Logic and then turned around and wanted to kill Barto makes me think Barto is town. You don't defend a scum buddy to then turn around and attack another scum buddy right away.... especially one that had an imo real chance of working out.

Slaan, one thing to note (that my recent analysis so far points out) is that El Barto was in a much less dangerous position than Csargo as far as either bussing or forced spew go, since he was voted very briefly in mid D2 while GH and Zack went after Choxorn near EOD, only jumping off with minutes to spare.

As far as motivation you could argue either way on both Barto or Choxorn at this time.

[Sooh]

*yawns*

Morning...

yadda yadda yadda.

*sigh*

People keep leaving the tournament. What did we do wrong? Please do fill out our feedback forms. We need to get to the bottom of this.

Tonight

Reinoe left.

He was Alexander Alekhine.

http://en.chessbase.com/portals/4/files/news/2015/common/reviews/rachmuth/alekhine/alek-euwe35-04.jpg

You were born in 1892, and is the oldest contestant of our tournament. For a period of 17 years you were the world champion of chess, though Max Euwe held the title for a brief time, splitting your reign in two. Your influence on chess remains today, as you have given your name to various openings.

You are a Vanilla Town.


EOD 4
https://pending.me.uk/cd/bla_1507932000.png

[Slaan]

I havent gotten to the EoD yet so my list is of course subject to change. Csargo was only a topic so far at the first 1/3 of D1 and bounced back from that so I'm not reading too much into it.. will have to recheck how/when zack/GH went after him though for sure.

I'm actually a bit annoyed how I structured this reread... at first I wanted all pizza-style comment on everything I'd regard as AI but that wouldve spammed the thread and I didnt want that... but then I was lazy and didnt want to keep many notes besides that so ... yea sux >_>

[Slaan]

Vote: Choxorn

[Fredwood]

Except Zack and GH both tried to push me sloppily like they did DP and flinched when Winston and I started sussing GH for it. Winston sussed harder and I wasn't really interested in pushing for a GH day 1 lynch, 1 cus it's GH 2 because there was no point against fighting the logic lynch. Basically putting me in any form of POE is ridiculous if you don't also have DP and Barto in the same POE.

EWIOP to include Bart.

I don't feel that confident in scum being in Chox, Xia, Csargo or Cuth.

Chox - because of crazy EOD stuff. I agree he's probably where we have to go next because I think they treat him the same way whether he's town or they're trying to sac one to save GH. At best though I feel it's 50/50

Xia - Pizza feels confident, I've seen him be right on 2 post slanks before so (shrug)

Csargo - Feeling from his Zack push Day 1 then backing down due to the response he got doesn't feel like someone distancing. Plus I don't think scum will distance Zack day 1, and if he was distancing, he would have been more assertive about it because TMI. Dunno, I just don't get a lot of scum vibes from him now after the Zack flip.

Cuth - wild card to me, If I have any true null read right now it's Cuth

[Slaan]

Where would you go then Fred? Where do you see the last scum?

[Askthepizzaguy]

I'd lynch Barto today. Not interested in walking away from my POE. You guys decide what you wanna do if not that.

[Fredwood]

You werent much of a Discussion point for the most part imo... and dp had way more interactions with Zack that spew him town hard in my book. I have you at the end of my PoE and will probably reconsider everything before we get another 5 lynches in (or hope that the game is over/I'm dead) but I wouldnt set you on a equal level as dp... never.

Find it odd that you are, especially after your response post GH flip. I'm not arguing for lock town status (which were your words at the time not mine), but I don't buy that his spew is any stronger then Bart's or my spew. Weird that you're trying to expand POE based off one flip of a uninterested townie, especially since I've seen how you handled POE before.

[Slaan]

Find it odd that you are, especially after your response post GH flip. I'm not arguing for lock town status (which were your words at the time not mine), but I don't buy that his spew is any stronger then Bart's or my spew. Weird that you're trying to expand POE based off one flip of a uninterested townie, especially since I've seen how you handled POE before.

I'm expanding/reconsidering my PoE because I'm rereading the entire thread and when I started doing that I set everyone in my readlist back to 0 and started over so there are bound to be differences between my reads now and the ones I had when I just went off the live impressions I got.... (not to mention I'm only halfway through with my reread so again, chances are that this list is subject to change :))

You still havent answered who you'd lyncht today outside my PoE.. ?

[Askthepizzaguy]

choxorn, what are your feelings on Slaan?

Is he deep wolfing?

[Montmorency]

Reinoe's post-D1 material:

Nothing interesting now that I've done it. Nothing much relevant for scum position beyond 'lynch Choxorn then Barto', not killworthy if either are scum.


A 1x Strongman? The scumteam would bus the crap out of that.

Winston concerned about Reinoe on Chox wagon, but Reinoe dismisses and says Chox likely scum.

Flattered by Pizza.

Do we usually get told scum numbers by host?

El Barto wolfy popin (at EOD calling GH vote Choxorn was boring, asking Slaan why he isn't voting Choxorn if he finds him suspicious), Reinoe tells Choxorn


Because El Barto went AFK and then pops up two minutes after the lynch. The timing makes it seem like he was around but didn't want his presence to be known.



Why does Choxorn think Reinoe is scum when he points out Logic-Zack communications?

Does Pizza still think Csargo is scum?


Even if you Fredwoodwere asleep, the posts highlighted that you were indifferent to an El Barto/logic lynch even though they were your biggest scumreads. You made 3 or 4 posts but left a vote without doing anything with it. The town's most valuable tool is their vote so you shouldn't be dismissive about letting a vote sit around not doing anything. When it comes to "taking a long time to react", I can't re-read the game every five minutes. For vote parking to get noticed it has to sit there for awhile and there has to be context developed around it.


Post 1202 talking with Fred, who gave some "soft defense of Zack without talking about him directly ".


Wish more people were talking at night.

Trying to determine Monty alignment, notable post #293. Winston town, Zack likely scum.


Abandoned Monty read to do logic and he had no associative tells I could discern other than that he's definitely not aligned with Kage.

Kage, what do you think of Zack=scum

Monty seems townie, but clarify feelings on Choxorn; Barto probably best left alone for a while.

DP Town, Chox is scum

Hammer GH


Wanna lynch zack over chox purely for ego.

If zack is scum them my "zack isn't talking to logic" is the coolest read I've ever made.

I see people eyeing Manasi as possible scum but for her alignment I see "space cadet". I don't mean that in a negative way but just someone who is never going to be truly engaged.


Meh. El Barto vs Manasi was a choice anyone could have made. Unsure why Manasi wasn't having a good time with the game so maybe outside factors? Sorry about being missing, I was entertaining a guest from out of town that I wasn't expecting. If it's not El Barto or Choxorn then there's gonna have to be serious re-assessments done though.


Upon re-read I think I'd like to lynch Choxorn over El Barto.

Barto had some early criticism of Zack that didn't look like bussing.


While briefly being discussed, earlier I'd like to mention Cuth is slightly spewed.

[Fredwood]

Where would you go then Fred? Where do you see the last scum?

I think you're both overvaluing and undervaluing the spew and planning too many steps ahead.

The lynch should always be Bart or Chox today in my mind. I don't see any scenario or any reason to even consider of lynching outside of that.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Too many steps ahead is right.

Gonna re-read Slaan.

[Fredwood]

I think you're both overvaluing and undervaluing the spew and planning too many steps ahead.

The lynch should always be Bart or Chox today in my mind. I don't see any scenario or any reason to even consider of lynching outside of that.

Well I can think of one, but that would be a lame way to end the game.

[Montmorency]

I think you're both overvaluing and undervaluing the spew and planning too many steps ahead.

The lynch should always be Bart or Chox today in my mind. I don't see any scenario or any reason to even consider of lynching outside of that.

Sure, OK - but is it insta-hammer today? I think we can plan a little ahead, or at least plan for planning ahead.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Changed my mind. While we're all mostly still alive let's discuss who should be tossed out of the town circle and why.

[Montmorency]

BTW: Vote: El Barto

I believe in chess this is known as "forking".

[Slaan]

I think you're both overvaluing and undervaluing the spew and planning too many steps ahead.

The lynch should always be Bart or Chox today in my mind. I don't see any scenario or any reason to even consider of lynching outside of that.

What do you mean too many steps ahead?

[Fredwood]

Sure, OK - but is it insta-hammer today? I think we can plan a little ahead, or at least plan for planning ahead.

What changes? I think the only reason we wait because I think Bart might be more likely to defend himself then Manasi. I mean day 1 and day 2 has already been analyzed to death. Chox is never getting clear of being lynched, and Bart will have a hard time avoiding it. I said it after the GH flip that I felt the POE was chox, Manasi, Zack and Bart. I felt at the time Bart isn't likely teammates with Zack, but there's enough of a thought that he could be that I'm not lynching out of my POE two days ago.

[Askthepizzaguy]

What do you mean too many steps ahead?

It means you're planning out a lot of failure. Which is scummy and indicates you know a bunch of townies are going to flip if we follow POE.

I forced the hell out of my town read on you, I knew it.

[Fredwood]

What do you mean too many steps ahead?

You just planned out the next 4 or 5 days of lynches.

[Askthepizzaguy]

You're just bantering with Zack and GH at start of day 1, what the hell Slaan.

[Slaan]

Really? After I've done rereading the thread I'd probably be fine with making a 4-5 ppl list to submit and autoresolve the game with. I don't think alot of readable stuff is going to happen going forward... there won't be any grand mafia strategy anymore imo...

I mean this is my thoughts put to the extreme and we should continue talking yada yada but the way this game has gone I feel confident in having 6townies ready when I'm done and then it's just an issue of lynching it down. We can and should talk about it when ppl come up with different lists of course but that doesnt mean I can't put my list out there or am I missing something? Only thing that would change this plan is the possibility of a 3p I suppose but rules state no cult so that's unlikely.

[Slaan]

You're just bantering with Zack and GH at start of day 1, what the hell Slaan.

Enjoy ISOing me ^^. I'm off to play some witcher, will finish my reading up during the next day.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Enjoy ISOing me ^^. I'm off to play some witcher, will finish my reading up during the next day.

This is why Logic screwed up by calling you town.

He really wasn't thinking about you at all. If he was defending a townie he'd have had something more than the most generic stuff ever.

[Slaan]

Before I go though.. just stumpled upon this beauty :D


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uT3SBzmDxGk

[Slaan]

This is why Logic screwed up by calling you town.

He really wasn't thinking about you at all. If he was defending a townie he'd have had something more than the most generic stuff ever.

Wouldnt the same be true for his buddy? Not just throwing it out there for lulz and nothing else is bullshit no matter at who it's directed imo. He'd be more careful when it came to a mafia buddy than a towny imo... but then again I know I'm town.

[Slaan]

I'll check back in an hour in case questions come up.

[Fredwood]

Really? After I've done rereading the thread I'd probably be fine with making a 4-5 ppl list to submit and autoresolve the game with. I don't think alot of readable stuff is going to happen going forward... there won't be any grand mafia strategy anymore imo...

I mean this is my thoughts put to the extreme and we should continue talking yada yada but the way this game has gone I feel confident in having 6townies ready when I'm done and then it's just an issue of lynching it down. We can and should talk about it when ppl come up with different lists of course but that doesnt mean I can't put my list out there or am I missing something? Only thing that would change this plan is the possibility of a 3p I suppose but rules state no cult so that's unlikely.

Dunno, process maybe, I had a number of problems with it (Besides me balking at being in POE). When doing a re-read you should have probably waited until you were done with the reread to post your thoughts because right now it looksinconsistent with what you've said to this point.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Wouldnt the same be true for his buddy? Not just throwing it out there for lulz and nothing else is bullshit no matter at who it's directed imo. He'd be more careful when it came to a mafia buddy than a towny imo... but then again I know I'm town.

This is phrased all wrong. It's a hypothetical when you know it's not hypothetical.

[Montmorency]

This is why Logic screwed up by calling you town.

He really wasn't thinking about you at all. If he was defending a townie he'd have had something more than the most generic stuff ever.

Pizza, in your giant reads post (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152969-Chess-Game-Thread-In-Play&p=2053762608&viewfull=1#post2053762608) on Slaan you said that scum Slaan would likely be hard bussing Logic D1.

But like I said what if it's mere distancing for final scum? Think about it, if GH and Zack are going in hard to defend Logic or at least divert the whole issue, what is the last scum doing?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Well RIP me, this game has devolved (or from your standpoints maybe evolved :D) into meta read fun where I can hardly contribute... I mean I could read up on past games here but ngl my WIM isnt that large...

In the end I'd be down for those lynches today:
- Logic: Don't even care much for pizza's tirade against him (he just made me look at Logic again)... I find his townread towards me and subsequent defending scummy. He townread me after the shitposting early D1 without me having contributed anything... and after being questioned about it doubled down on it because I seemed like a new guy trying to fit in a new group... which is an ok read but why is this AI in the slightest from me? Seems to me like he just put together a quick readlist without having a solving mindset.
- Barto: From everything I've read it's not a slot I'd miss and I doubt I'd ever get a read on it and just sheeping the meta reads of you guys doesnt sound like fun.
- Manasi: Feels way different from the mashes we've played, less chatty and less active and overall just weird for the little bit of Manasi I know
- Choxorn: Few rather isolated pop ins with a rather scummy post townreading pizza
- Xiahou: Didnt do anything so far really, 1 post iirc

Preferred is still the Logic lynch though, in addition to imo >rand flipping scum there has been alot said about him that can help us going forward. And of those 5 I'd lynch Xiahou last obv, hope s/he can find into the game and post more :).

Hard bus after Logic was caught + 4 low langing fruits.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Pizza, in your giant reads post (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152969-Chess-Game-Thread-In-Play&p=2053762608&viewfull=1#post2053762608) on Slaan you said that scum Slaan would likely be hard bussing Logic D1.

But like I said what if it's mere distancing for final scum? Think about it, if GH and Zack are going in hard to defend Logic or at least divert the whole issue, what is the last scum doing?

Yeah and he admitted it's in his playbook and his posts all read like me when I'm scum, comfortable as hell just bantering with my own partners.

His massive JAQ post I struggled and forced to read townie because that's what I wanted the outcome to be. God dammit I forced the Slaan read because I wanted to be town with him.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I needed townies, and you weren't making mistakes. I can't believe this.

*bashes head against wall*

[Askthepizzaguy]

Where's the passive aggression post at Cuth. I need to find that one.

That one is like 20 JAQings in a row and I said "generically this looks scummy" and then talked myself out of it.

[Montmorency]

Yeah and he admitted it's in his playbook and his posts all read like me when I'm scum, comfortable as hell just bantering with my own partners.

His massive JAQ post I struggled and forced to read townie because that's what I wanted the outcome to be. God dammit I forced the Slaan read because I wanted to be town with him.

That wasn't exactly me agreeing on whatever is happening now with Slaan, but...

If you're about to propose POE on Slaan, then I have to look at the whole D1, can't debate this either way cold.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Here it is.



... what? Do you know what my scumrange and townrange are and could you even tell what is in one and not the other? Have you read a scum game from me to make those reads? Sorry but this post feels very bad from my point of view. What do you think is underwhelming about or going in a strange direction? Who do I shade unnecessary? You linked post is me calling out Bart for apparently being Bart and playing like crap (no offence ;)), I think calling him out on it is necessary. And yes my opening is weak, I don't care for the game in RVS and I'm not looking to solve there. I try to get to know the ppl a bit so I can better remember their names going forward... Let me put this differently: Who didnt have a weak opening in the first 2 hours?

This post just feels empty despite there being many words... same as the long post about dp previously... whats up Cuth?

This post reads generically like it could be scum taking advantage of a weak/attackable post by a townie. But all of those questions also feel legitimate and I feel like this could all be normal Slaan.

What I mean another way, is that this is the kind of post I look for motive on, because if Cuth is town, that post was really attackable, and how people attack suspicious posts tells me a lot about their real process. Passive aggression is something I've been noting across games more and more as a fairly reliable generic scumtell, if passive aggression is not in the person's town playbook. Something about being scum causes people to give easier justifications for scumreading people, and they also tend to distance themselves from that suspicion. Not always, not even in the majority of cases, but they do like to make it someone else's fault that they're scum reading them and they also tend to phrase the suspicion like innocent questions or smudges as opposed to "X is a wolf for this post".

This post would fit that pattern in general of Just Asking Questions to smudge Cuthillius. But my gut is telling me to discount that, like the reasons Slaan is doing it would be more like his own personality causing him to react this way to Cuth. The specific questions on townrange/scumrange and the question on who had a strong opening in the first couple hours feel like solving questions Slaan would most likely legitimately have.

So it fits a scummy pattern in the generic sense, but I don't think the tell is reliable in this specific instance. Slaan can be scum, I haven't locked him town, but this post isn't pushing me in that direction, even though it fits stuff I tend to look for.

I don't know Slaan's range, all I remember is that he was a seemingly competent and fun town player in his champs game. That's all I got. My town is pretty full but I still don't think he's doing anything here that would lead to kicking him out, despite the List Of Questions style post.

I'll break this up so it's not a big wall, posting and continuing.

Forcing the town read against what the tell should be. Bantering with Zack and GH, first defending Logic then bussing him when it's clear I am never letting go and he could be a wagon. Passive aggression, the whole tell I used on Logic not being applied to Slaan because I've never played with Slaan and I wanted him to be town.

[Askthepizzaguy]

That wasn't exactly me agreeing on whatever is happening now with Slaan, but...

If you're about to propose POE on Slaan, then I have to look at the whole D1, can't debate this either way cold.

Control+F Slaan and read the game from game start. Tell me how you feel about him when it's done.

Feelings are everything. You can talk yourself into anything.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Shit.

If I died, I'd have gone to my grave with him as lock town. No one is really gonna hold him to his lynch me at f3 stuff. Anyone who would would be dead by then.

[Fredwood]

I don't know, it's an odd stance for him to take on a town Bart if he's scum. I mean I get Bart surviving to late game is good for him, but Bart isn't likely getting that far no matter what he throws out there. What does being right on a POE town read buy you?

I'll just put another thing that is bothering me is Monty in his list. He said he's a candidate for F5? The hell does that mean? It may just be my obliviousness to how many mislynches we have, just feels like a weird way to say I'm not looking to lynch him. Probably nitpicky though.

Anyway, I still think Chox or Bart is the way to go.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Slaan, your ELO rating is too damn high.

Dooku, Maul, Gunray, they were all disposable.

You got sent to Champs for a reason, and it's because you're the Sith Lord.

Vote: Slaan

[Dp101]

I doctored him last night using a present I got… I switched off Pizza because it sounded like he wanted out of the game.

[Fredwood]

I don't know, it's an odd stance for him to take on a town Bart if he's scum. I mean I get Bart surviving to late game is good for him, but Bart isn't likely getting that far no matter what he throws out there. What does being right on a POE town read buy you?

I'll just put another thing that is bothering me is Monty in his list. He said he's a candidate for F5? The hell does that mean? It may just be my obliviousness to how many mislynches we have, just feels like a weird way to say I'm not looking to lynch him. Probably nitpicky though.

Anyway, I still think Chox or Bart is the way to go.

Or it could be my pocket paranoia conflicting me. SOMEONE AGREED WITH ME I MUST BE WRONG AND BEING MANIPULATED.

[Askthepizzaguy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dATuq8O3920

We'll get back to the POE and kill five townies in a row predicting failure the whole time, staring tomorrow.

Until then, Slaan.


I'm kicking you out of my town until further notice.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I doctored him last night using a present I got… I switched off Pizza because it sounded like he wanted out of the game.

What did I tell you about keeping your saber up?

About the friendliness and being your best buddy.

A lesson we all could learn, apparently. I failed.

[Fredwood]

When did this game become about the prequel movies?

[Dp101]

When did this game become about the prequel movies?

Since Pizza arrived.

[Askthepizzaguy]

You will not execute order 66 on my watch.

You were too predictive of failure at start of day today to ever be towning.

I was about to log off when I saw that.

[Fredwood]

Since Pizza arrived.

But the good guys lost.

[Askthepizzaguy]

But the good guys lost.

That's because Anakin decided not to turn against Palpatine.

If he'd have stayed on Windu's side, Palpatine would have been overthrown.

Not this time.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I'll just put another thing that is bothering me is Monty in his list. He said he's a candidate for F5? The hell does that mean?

references to f3 I get, don't lynch until christmas because they look townie.

I don't know why specifically f5 should be referenced by a townie. f5 just seems to be planning out mislynches.

If you believe in the POE you think the game should realistically be over before then.

In the words of Ben Finegold, it's not knight f5. It's "Knife f5".

[Askthepizzaguy]

While you're off playing 1 hour worth of Witcher, can you teach me how to save Padme, Slaan?

[Slaan]

Oh boy, fun


Dunno, process maybe, I had a number of problems with it (Besides me balking at being in POE). When doing a re-read you should have probably waited until you were done with the reread to post your thoughts because right now it looksinconsistent with what you've said to this point.

It was nearing end of night and I legit thought there is a real chance of me dying as (at the time) I thougth I was the only one besides pizza doing work... Monty came in later and added on as well but other than that I thought 'well mafia isnt going to kill pizza, pizza is most likely protected...' so I figured I'd get everything I read until then out in the open.


This is phrased all wrong. It's a hypothetical when you know it's not hypothetical.

I argued it from your PoV. I know I'm town, you don't know.


Forcing the town read against what the tell should be. Bantering with Zack and GH, first defending Logic then bussing him when it's clear I am never letting go and he could be a wagon. Passive aggression, the whole tell I used on Logic not being applied to Slaan because I've never played with Slaan and I wanted him to be town.

I'm still town and you are going in tinfoil territory. I bantered with everyone that was around when I was, Zack just was around all the time and with GH I had played a game recently. Can't defend the Logic push from me, couldve certainly come from scum me.. didnt but it could. And I'm mostly passive agressive I think, being plain is boring.


I don't know, it's an odd stance for him to take on a town Bart if he's scum. I mean I get Bart surviving to late game is good for him, but Bart isn't likely getting that far no matter what he throws out there. What does being right on a POE town read buy you?

I'll just put another thing that is bothering me is Monty in his list. He said he's a candidate for F5? The hell does that mean? It may just be my obliviousness to how many mislynches we have, just feels like a weird way to say I'm not looking to lynch him. Probably nitpicky though.

Anyway, I still think Chox or Bart is the way to go.

Yea this F5 was more or less randomly put in there. Wanted to write F3 but realised I'd be probably down lynching him even before that if the rest of my townies are still around so I put it as F5... I calculated later that we have 4-5 lynches left (10 ppl... but maybe scum has a vig still since town had one and holstered it so far. I know I would as mafia), know I'm failry certain its 4 and I don't think its likely that Monty will ever slip in there. But then again who knows, apparently I'm an option now ^^

[Slaan]

Slaan, your ELO rating is too damn high.

Dooku, Maul, Gunray, they were all disposable.

You got sent to Champs for a reason, and it's because you're the Sith Lord.

Vote: Slaan

I take it as a compliment, but unfortunatly you are wrong this time around.

[Slaan]

While you're off playing 1 hour worth of Witcher, can you teach me how to save Padme, Slaan?

Don't impregnate her.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I take it as a compliment, but unfortunatly you are wrong this time around.

As well you should.

If you would do me the honor of claiming, my friend, it would be most appreciated.

[Askthepizzaguy]

If you say vanilla townie, my vote's going nowhere.

[Slaan]

references to f3 I get, don't lynch until christmas because they look townie.

I don't know why specifically f5 should be referenced by a townie. f5 just seems to be planning out mislynches.

If you believe in the POE you think the game should realistically be over before then.

In the words of Ben Finegold, it's not knight f5. It's "Knife f5".

Na, I'm too lazy to do anything like that as mafia, I go with how the wind blows. Strong non consensus reads just gets one into trouble, call Monty town, lynch Chox or Bart today and then push the other the next day... that would be my mafia play I'd guess. Maybe I'll get fancy for the NK before F3 to stirr up confusion but until then always take the easiest path...

Not that that's saying much coming from me, but w/e

[Slaan]

If you say vanilla townie, my vote's going nowhere.

Would you want joat_giving!slaan to claim here?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Would you want joat_giving!slaan to claim here?

Absolutely.

[Slaan]

Then rip me, only poor VT here. You did name my character already in this thread even btw.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Then rip me, only poor VT here. You did name my character already in this thread even btw.

I imagine so. But then again, it looks so far like the peeps in this game are all well-known grandmasters or the most well known online chess personalities.

The flavor also seems completely random. I'd have never expected Mato to be mafia, by flavor. I think flavor gaming is a bad move anyway.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Slaan, I need to see your card.

I'm going to press you until I die now. I'm sorry.

[Montmorency]

SLAAN FIRST 24 HOURS

I think the overall picture that Pizza just prioritized was Slaan being relatively soft and bantery overall, but especially with regard to Logic, Zack, and GH. Without having finished D1 on Slaan, or caught up to this apparently exploding thread, Askthepizzaguy, this is it right? Before I go forward, you think this early content is more telling than IIRC the fairly strong content that came afterward?

1. Sup --- Zack: *waves hello*
2. Zack: Aren't ellpses a scumtell --- Slaan: Dear god I hope not... I do it all the time :( --- Zack: Yeah...
Zack: What kind of game format does Slaan like?
3. Slaan only played with GH and Fred out of this group, some chance of reading. Cuth and Manasi were in mashes, but not enough familiarity to read with confidence.

[Cuth now has Cuth and Fred in upper half of POE]

4. Yes Zack I don't like mashes, also I won some Champs games

Zack: Yes we here know each other. I'm Zack/Zaccino.

5. Thanks Csargo for clarifying phase lengths, asks if he was in Champs
6. Where are the rules, Zack?

Csargo: Yes I was in Champs and played some MU turbos, don't think ever with you.
Zack: Can't read all posts in mashes, here will be more manageable. Also, here are rules.

7. I hope reading will be easier, though I see you are spammy and Manasi is around too.
8. TY for rules Zack
9. Forum has no good skins.

Winston: I stalked Slaan in Champs after bonding over Civ4.
Zack: Skins.

10. Oh cool Winston.
11.Skins, Zack.

Zack: Winston is McGinty on MU.

12. Civ games, Zack.

Zack: Civ games.
Winston: Champs, Slaan.

13. Champs, Winston.

Pizza: The Grandmaster is here (that's me).
Zack: Champs.
Monty: The Guild is the best skin.

14. Champs, Zack.

Pizza: Champs, Slaan.

15. Champs, Pizza.

Pizza: Champs, Slaan. Chess.

16. Yes, Pizza.

Logic: Civ games, Slaan.
GH: Vote Slaan, welcome to the ORG
Winston: Slaan is town below DP lock town.
Zack: Are any of those serious, Winston?
Monty: Winston strong list.
Pizza: Winston strong list.
Logic: GH, I'm glad you didn't welcome me with a vote in my first game here, like you're doing to Slaan.

[...later...]

Kage: Vote Slaan for hating skins
Manasi: Slaan less comfortable than he should be, likely scum.
Zack: Manasi, have you played with Slaan?
Kage: Slaan doesn't like skins.
Logic: Kage's vote on Slaan is lazy.
Zack: Do not like Kage's post.
Logic: Vote Kagemusha.
Zack: Banter Logic.
Kage: Vote Logic, but I will get Slaan someday.
Zack: What are you doing Kage?
DP: Kage do some work.
Zack: Why joke votes, Kage? Nothing to analyze.
Kage: Here is some analysis...I could not get any reaction from Slaan with my vote, which is too early for me to analyze. Logic seemed to be eager to react to my sudden activity, but thats about it. What have you observed?
Logic: I do not see Slaan as wolf, and Kage's random vote for non-game reasons is a tell.
Kage: Why is Slaan not scum? Meta?
Zack: I will not spoonfeed Kage my observations.
Kage: Why not be helpful?
Winston: Why did I townread Slaan earlier? Nothing substantive; did I think scum would be more relevant?

[SLAAN RETURNS, SOME HOURS AFTER KAGE-LOGIC STUFF BEGAN, WHICH ITSELF WAS AFTER PIZZA OPENED AGAINST LOGIC]

17. Slaan in the house again, will catch up.
18. Can we lynch Pizza for refereences?

Winston: Tempting to lynch Pizza, but no go on D1.
DP: Tempting to lynch Pizza, but he hasn't dropped a tell yet.

19. At least no more chess references if we lynch Pizza.
20. Reinoe, why do you like TMNT, it's not the 90s.
21. Vote Csargo, who is weak for (Csargo's words) "silly little argument" with Zack over OMGUS and suchlike.
22. We should lynch Kage over skins.
23.
I'm currently at this part and I think both are town. Dp101 just seems overall towny in tone and reaction and is trying to figure things out (I really liked post #310 of his) and reinoe seems unreasonable aggressive and obstinate which I hardly see from scum that mostly just want to blend in.

Winston: X-post with Slaan re: DP and Reinoe, Slaan is likely more correct than Winston tinfoil on their being partners.

24. Manasi, why do you think I wasn't comfortable?

Logic: Kage, I read Slaan's ISO and he doesn't feel like someone with PSI. Winston is odd in his response about better not to lynch Pizza, sounds PSI.
Winston: Reinoe is aggressive, yes SLaan, but it depends on the player. E.g. both Zack and Pizza tend to be more aggressive and obstinate by default as scum. And Logic, I was just speaking from experience. Lynching Pizza usually a bad move.

25. Kage how could I react if I wasn't around, there was plenty of other stuff for you to comment on. Zack probably wanted analysis like this anyway.

26. Winston, DP doesn't seem like a player to agree to aggressive posturing with a partner (i.e. Reinoe).

kage: Don't worry about skins. I can't get any scumminess from you but why doesn't Logic want to tell us why he thinks you aren't scum. Maybe he doesnt like to to become too involved in the thread?

[SLAAN BIG READS POST: Expects more from Logic, who isn't really solving - thinks Slaan town "(which makes him scum ;))"; Zack has many posts but not AI, reactions are notable but not AI because I can do similar as either town or scum; GH seems solvey but I know he can fake it so null, has to be judged by success in the day not by posts; Fred is OK, not many posts but focused on solving; Cuth weak pop in]

27.
Alright and I'm done catching up, yay. Overall impressions so far:

1. GH: Seems ok solvey but I know he can fake that as scum so he's just null in my book. Imo he has to be judged by his success in game and not by how towny he seems from posts alone.
2. Csargo: Didnt really like most of what he wrote, an early weird read that he immediatly backpaddled on.. wouldnt mind a lynch here today
3. dp101: Very towny from tone and AtE. From the comments I saw about him here he doesnt seem to be considered as the greatest player so him faking his frustration seems very unlikely
4. Pizza: ... I hope he stops with the rpg stuff or I'd consider vigging him if I had access to a vig.
5. Fredwood: Seems alright so far, not many posts but focused on solving the game.
6. El Barto: no poster
7. Montmorency: ... I'd call him toneally scummish atm.. there were alot of posts that feel off a bit. #119 akwardly trying to insert himself in our nonsense videogame discussion, his push on the 'reaction test' thingy (which I don't understand but I also don't care much), #250 is weird...
8. Zack: Actually don't have anything AI on him despite his many posts. The more memorable stuff was his reactions to being townread but thats just NAI in my book (since I sometimes do the same as both town and scum)
9. Cuthillius: weak pop in
10. Manasi: Manasi seemingly being solvey gives me the creeps. Also weird point made on my, how was I uncomfortable? Cautions sure being mostly w/ new folk but I didnt feel uncomfortable. Maybe a bit drunk but that's neither here nor there
11. Slaan: lock goat
12. Reinoe: The more I think about the more null she is. I don't think it very likely that her antagonizing attitude is wolfy but then again I don't see why not... given that its an alt an all. Maybe someone wants to try out a new strategy.
13. Choxorn: Who?
14. Winston Hughes: Almost same as Zack though I don't recall anything he said in regards to the game.
15. Logic: Didnt start solving really so far, a slight post on Kagemusha, a townread on me (which makes him scum ;))... I expect more!
16. Xiahou: ...
17. Kagemusha: Well his vote on me and then complaining that noone commented on it felt off... curious where he goes from here.

Where this leaves me:
dp101
Fred
GH, Zack, Winston
Csargo, Montmorency


... which isnt much now looking at it. The others are all basically null and I didnt want to put them all in there....

Yap :)

Zack: For now, DP, Fred, and Slaan are the only people I feel good about saying they're above null. Slaan is right that reinoe-DP probably both town.

28. OK Kage not a difficult hurdle to overcome. And Logic did become involved with the thread.

GH: Wary of Slaan who is acting different, but it could be different environment.

29. Ok I put Zack townish for now just for wall posting right after I wallposted!

30. Late response to Kage about ISO concept.

Zack: GH, more detail on kage, slaan, and fred. How is Slaan different? Give meta. And Slaan, wallposting is not AI in itself.

[ZACK-GH EXCHANGE BEGINS THAT WINSTON ULTIMATELY CONSIDERS VERY TOWNY]

31. Very true about wallposting Zack, I just liked seeing the wallposts in the midst of all the small posts. Also, I agree with your content so I upgrade you to a real town read.

GH: Slaan and Fred are both a tier down IMO, though I haven't seen their scum game. I'm comfortable reading Slaan from experience (e.g. Champs). It's hard to explain, but he isn't hitting the tone tells from the other games yet. Give it time and we will be able to tell either way.
Kage: Bad GH, tracking and other new Mafia things are complicated, get off my lawn.

32.
Everyone note it down: If GH mislynches me kill GH :)

Zack: GH, I disagree on Slaan, he seems fine, maybe he's a good wolf but not worth pursuing this early based on just paranoia.
Logic: Why doesn't Kage know what ISO is if he's so experienced?
Csargo: You voted me Slaan? Belated "cool".
Pizza: Manasi is iffy in saying that Slaan is likely scum

33.

[Slaan]

I don't even know where to start when it comes to flavoring chess grand masters lol. So yea, that part is NAI but I thought it funny when I reread the thread.... 'no thats me dummy' :D

Only thing solid I think I have for defence is my rather early sus on GH if Logic flipped scum.. doubt I'd do that as mafia ever. Bussing a partner and then using that to sus another partner. I can be cold but not D1 attacking 2 mafia bros cold...

If that helps. I'm out now for today :)

[Askthepizzaguy]

Before we continue, answer me this, Slaan.

regardless of alignment.

At one point in the game, it almost looked like you were hinting that you had a vig or a power. Was I imagining things?

You reacted every time I mentioned a vig.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I just want to know if I was picking up on something real you were doing to either draw a kill, or be able to counterclaim some townie someday.

Were you hinting you had a power, and did I see that?

[Slaan]

Oh now I gotta read the monty post brb

[Fredwood]

It was nearing end of night and I legit thought there is a real chance of me dying as (at the time) I thougth I was the only one besides pizza doing work... Monty came in later and added on as well but other than that I thought 'well mafia isnt going to kill pizza, pizza is most likely protected...' so I figured I'd get everything I read until then out in the open.

Yea this F5 was more or less randomly put in there. Wanted to write F3 but realised I'd be probably down lynching him even before that if the rest of my townies are still around so I put it as F5... I calculated later that we have 4-5 lynches left (10 ppl... but maybe scum has a vig still since town had one and holstered it so far. I know I would as mafia), know I'm failry certain its 4 and I don't think its likely that Monty will ever slip in there. But then again who knows, apparently I'm an option now ^^

"Work" is funny word. I guess it's only work if you announce it to the thread that you're working. There hasn't been much heavy lifting by anyone since Night 1. Once GH flipped scum it was only a matter of time before Zack got dealt with. Most of the activity since then has been reinforcing people's preexisting reads, until now that is.

The second part, i don't even get it. So you're saying Monty is a top 5 town read but you'd lynch him before then?

[Slaan]

Before we continue, answer me this, Slaan.

regardless of alignment.

At one point in the game, it almost looked like you were hinting that you had a vig or a power. Was I imagining things?

You reacted every time I mentioned a vig.

Oh yea wanted to be considered a valid NK target to give cover for our real PR's.. as well as a bit of reaction testing on top.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Those questions are part of my "am I just imagining things, or is this subtext" process.

I think the move as either alignment is good, especially when vanilla townie. I just want to know if you're like me and you also like to fake claim having powers when town, and would incorporate that into this game.

[Fredwood]

"Work" is funny word. I guess it's only work if you announce it to the thread that you're working. There hasn't been much heavy lifting by anyone since Night 1. Once GH flipped scum it was only a matter of time before Zack got dealt with. Most of the activity since then has been reinforcing people's preexisting reads, until now that is.

The second part, i don't even get it. So you're saying Monty is a top 5 town read but you'd lynch him before then?

Not even getting to the part that I'm confused by your Vig/mislynch logic. At this point I'm hoping a Vig would shoot the hell out of meh POE lynches.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Oh yea wanted to be considered a valid NK target to give cover for our real PR's.. as well as a bit of reaction testing on top.

Slaan, you are like a more likeable version of me.

I was a big fan during g11, and I still am.

[Slaan]

"Work" is funny word. I guess it's only work if you announce it to the thread that you're working. There hasn't been much heavy lifting by anyone since Night 1. Once GH flipped scum it was only a matter of time before Zack got dealt with. Most of the activity since then has been reinforcing people's preexisting reads, until now that is.

I did announce that I was rereading the thread at like 20:30 or smth iirc and started to spampost a bit every time I saw a small spew (which stopped as I didnt want to overspam the thread as stated earlier)


The second part, i don't even get it. So you're saying Monty is a top 5 town read but you'd lynch him before then?

I wanted to express that Monty wasnt in my lock town categorie and I could see him being scum. But he has some solid points going for him imo so he is not in the immediate PoE but also not secure enought hat I would like to F3 with him... It's like I don't know where to put him exactly so I came up with the F5 thingy. Didnt even consider how many lynches we had left at that point so it made sense to me then.. now knowing we have 4 lynches most likely it doesnt anymore, sure, considering the rest of my PoE is scummier in my eyes.

[Askthepizzaguy]

@Askthepizzaguy (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=23872), this is it right? Before I go forward, you think this early content is more telling than IIRC the fairly strong content that came afterward?

The formatting is tricky. I'm unsure how to parse it.

I read all of Slaan's posts up until almost end of day 1 again. What I remember is that he had a very banter-y, slow start, made a comment about Logic to the tune of he didn't really agree with what I was accusing Logic of, I remember the passive aggression at Cuth post, and I remember that he hard bussed Logic and then named 4 other suspects, none were GH or Zack even though he had them in his mild scummy pile earlier than that post.

After that, GH and Zack outed themselves so any content after D1 is not alignment indicative.

[Slaan]

Slaan, you are like a more likeable version of me.

I was a big fan during g11, and I still am.

Haha ty, shouldve gotten a wildcard spot though... :p. I think GH is the one I need to rip a new one for that :D. g11 only one spot made me soo sad... but when giving this game only one spot I get why boq got it, more deserved for sure... even Alo over me imo but still, stung a bit ;_;

This is the first game I actually did this fake claming stuff... or at least tried to do it sorta convincingly. I mean did fakeclaim as mafia on my homeboard at times when it came around Lylo etc etc but not like this, it's an interesting strategy I think and I was bored so figured why not.

[Montmorency]

Yea this F5 was more or less randomly put in there. Wanted to write F3 but realised I'd be probably down lynching him even before that if the rest of my townies are still around so I put it as F5... I calculated later that we have 4-5 lynches left (10 ppl... but maybe scum has a vig still since town had one and holstered it so far. I know I would as mafia), know I'm failry certain its 4 and I don't think its likely that Monty will ever slip in there. But then again who knows, apparently I'm an option now ^^

Wait, just a few things to correct while I'm sorting out this storm.

10-8-6-4 means 4 lynchs including today. And town vig didn't holster, Pizza just killed Zack! And no one is counterclaiming...

Going by DP's claim, we have a gifter role.

[Slaan]

The formatting is tricky. I'm unsure how to parse it.

I read all of Slaan's posts up until almost end of day 1 again. What I remember is that he had a very banter-y, slow start, made a comment about Logic to the tune of he didn't really agree with what I was accusing Logic of, I remember the passive aggression at Cuth post, and I remember that he hard bussed Logic and then named 4 other suspects, none were GH or Zack even though he had them in his mild scummy pile earlier than that post.

After that, GH and Zack outed themselves so any content after D1 is not alignment indicative.

I don't think I had them in my slight scum pile, I had them at neutral iirc. Slight scum was Monty and csargo if I'm not mistaken at the time.

Regarding Logic.. well yea, from my perspective your push was purely a meta read which I can't really agree with.. I mean how, I don't have the meta. I thought logic was fairly alright-ish... except for his townread on me which I just ignored at first for a random rvs read and was more on Csargo at the time. Only when I reread after your push did I realise his read was meant to be seriously and that it made no sense from scum.

[Slaan]

Wait, just a few things to correct while I'm sorting out this storm.

10-8-6-4 means 4 lynchs including today. And town vig didn't holster, Pizza just killed Zack! And no one is counterclaiming...

Going by DP's claim, we have a gifter role.

Yes I think so.

[Slaan]

Now I'm diving into Montys post about me :)

[Dp101]

Wait, just a few things to correct while I'm sorting out this storm.

10-8-6-4 means 4 lynchs including today. And town vig didn't holster, Pizza just killed Zack! And no one is counterclaiming...

Going by DP's claim, we have a gifter role.

Pizza’s gun was also a gift, so that was already confirmed.

[Fredwood]

I did announce that I was rereading the thread at like 20:30 or smth iirc and started to spampost a bit every time I saw a small spew (which stopped as I didnt want to overspam the thread as stated earlier)

Nah I'm not talking about that, It's a bit sassy, the general point being that most everything since N1 has been a lot of everyone repeating themselves, so the impression that you're the only one working outside of Pizza is kind of funny to me.




I wanted to express that Monty wasnt in my lock town categorie and I could see him being scum. But he has some solid points going for him imo so he is not in the immediate PoE but also not secure enought hat I would like to F3 with him... It's like I don't know where to put him exactly so I came up with the F5 thingy. Didnt even consider how many lynches we had left at that point so it made sense to me then.. now knowing we have 4 lynches most likely it doesnt anymore, sure, considering the rest of my PoE is scummier in my eyes.

I guess? So you're saying you'd lynch Barto after him? Because it looks like as if you're saying your final 5 is Pizza, Bart, DP101, You and Monty. No offense to Monty, he's not spewed or anything when half the thread is spewed. It almost feels like appeasement because Monty could break the game because of WIM and he's in a similar position to you so would have a greater drive to do so then anyone else.

Still don't get why you'd be fine with Bart getting to Final 3.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Pizza’s gun was also a gift, so that was already confirmed.

And Slaan hinted joat giver as his possible fake claim just now. So he knows what's up.


Would you want joat_giving!slaan to claim here?

Idea behind this pseudo claim, survive the day, pizza backs off, kill pizza or pizza chases a new car, later claim it was trying to draw a kill.

Don't see him actually saying this quote if he's VT.

[Askthepizzaguy]

If he's scum he cannot claim one of the confirmed known roles, if he had a living partner he could but he can't now, he's just counterclaimed.

If he's scum and I just said he can't claim vanilla or I won't back off, he divides the baby in half and pseudo claims.

I asked for it to be made into a hard claim and he can't do that.

[Dp101]

And Slaan hinted joat giver as his possible fake claim just now. So he knows what's up.



Idea behind this pseudo claim, survive the day, pizza backs off, kill pizza or pizza chases a new car, later claim it was trying to draw a kill.

Don't see him actually saying this quote if he's VT.

I don’t see what part of that behaviour was scummy though, feels like he was having fun. Then again, that doesn’t seem to mesh well with the rest of his posts, and I don’t see why a villager would say that. Idk.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I don’t see what part of that behaviour was scummy though, feels like he was having fun. Then again, that doesn’t seem to mesh well with the rest of his posts, and I don’t see why a villager would say that. Idk.

I'd just ask you to re-read him from day 1 and then vote your conscience.

If you don't agree then you don't agree. If I am wrong I need someone else to be right.

[Slaan]

Nah I'm not talking about that, It's a bit sassy, the general point being that most everything since N1 has been a lot of everyone repeating themselves, so the impression that you're the only one working outside of Pizza is kind of funny to me.

Maybe that was just my own impression... considering I did as you've said since N1 basically... just went down the PoE and didnt care much outside that ^^. Well I didnt even vote on D2 iirc, I wanted GH to post something before he is hammered but that never happened...


I guess? So you're saying you'd lynch Barto after him? Because it looks like as if you're saying your final 5 is Pizza, Bart, DP101, You and Monty. No offense to Monty, he's not spewed or anything when half the thread is spewed. It almost feels like appeasement because Monty could break the game because of WIM and he's in a similar position to you so would have a greater drive to do so then anyone else.

Still don't get why you'd be fine with Bart getting to Final 3.

I didnt do the math when I made my post so chances are this doesnt work out as I've written down. Then again I probably wouldnt mind Bart in F3? It's a tough one between Monty and Bart tbh, Monty is more towny from WIM/solving and his going hard after Zack D1 and not minding the Logic wagon. Bart on the other hand I think is spewed town from the way Zack/GH acted...

I just think it so unlikely that Zack and GH are defending scum!Logic as strong as they were and proposing scum!Bart as an alternative wagon. I mean it's not impossible, nothing is yada yada... but I don't see it happening. If they wanted to bus a partner they couldve just jumped on the Logic wagon early... At some point the Logic issue did become a Point of no return for them imo (couldnt have made a 180° ) but I think it was still very much possible when they went after Barto? At least that's the impression I got, at the time there was 'only' pizza that pushed him hard, dp+ (someone, don't remember.. kage prolly) that sheeped pizza and me on the wagon... which is why GH and Zack tried so hard to save Logic int he first place - it was still very much possible. But then whyyy go after their last scumbuddy? Just seems so unlikely in my book

[Slaan]

I don’t see what part of that behaviour was scummy though, feels like he was having fun. Then again, that doesn’t seem to mesh well with the rest of his posts, and I don’t see why a villager would say that. Idk.

What. Ppl have been accusing me of bantering and reading me wolfy for that and now I'm supposed to not have fun?

[Montmorency]

The formatting is tricky. I'm unsure how to parse it.

I read all of Slaan's posts up until almost end of day 1 again. What I remember is that he had a very banter-y, slow start, made a comment about Logic to the tune of he didn't really agree with what I was accusing Logic of, I remember the passive aggression at Cuth post, and I remember that he hard bussed Logic and then named 4 other suspects, none were GH or Zack even though he had them in his mild scummy pile earlier than that post.

After that, GH and Zack outed themselves so any content after D1 is not alignment indicative.

OK, just by the 24 hours here's a condensed view that might reflect the harshest interpretation of Slaan (easier to give a charitable interpretation of later content, which you did):

0. Slaan recently is affirming the principle that we shouldn't even be seeing multi-scum sussing or distancing in D1 given the Logic threat. My own position is that we should expect controlled distancing, especially after halfway into D1. So keep in mind that this is a bit less than the first half of D1.
1. In opening posts Slaan talks about only playing with GH and Fred out of this group, some chance of reading. Cuth and Manasi were in mashes, but not enough familiarity to read with confidence. Slaan now has Cuth and Fred in upper half of POE. If you're going by the long-term significance route.
2. Slaan almost entirely banters for 16 posts, mostly w/ Zack and Winston, then Logic arrives at the tail end to begin his first round, including getting sussed by Pizza. GH welcome-votes Slaan, and Logic expresses relief that GH didn't do that when it was Logic's first ORG game.
3. Kage votes Slaan as a joke and Manasi thinks Slaan is uncomfortable and scummy. Zack soft-challenges her and Kage. Logic says Kage's vote on Slaan is lazy and begins the voting and other interactions between the two. Logic says Slaan is not scum, Kage asks why, etc.
4. Slaan returns, jokes about lynching Pizza, Winston and DP chuckle sensibly about it, and later Logic attacks Winston as having PIS wrt Pizza (Winston also a bit earlier questioned his own first town read on Slaan).
5. Vote Csargo for discussing OMGUS with Zack in a weird way, and wants to lynch Kage as a joke over skins.
6. Possible buddying with Winston and DP.
7. Slaan gives a big reads post, considers Logic, Zack, and GH in nullish and jokey ways. Zack now finds "DP, Fred, and Slaan are the only people I feel good about saying they're above null."
7. Kage feels no scumminess from Slaan now but wonders why Logic doesn't want to become involved in thread. Slaan counters that Logic is involved in thread, and confident that he can become town for Kage ("easy hurdle").
8. Slaan reads Zack true town after wallposts and other friendly interactions. GH says Slaan and Fred are down a tier but he can't really explain it; Zack disagrees only on Slaan.
9.
Everyone note it down: If GH mislynches me kill GH :)


Pizza, don't go full volcano, we have 45 hours and I'm taking this slow.

[Slaan]

If he's scum he cannot claim one of the confirmed known roles, if he had a living partner he could but he can't now, he's just counterclaimed.

If he's scum and I just said he can't claim vanilla or I won't back off, he divides the baby in half and pseudo claims.

I asked for it to be made into a hard claim and he can't do that.

I did hardclaim VT though? I mean it's not helping me for sure... I was actually wondering of claiming a role and maybe getting NK'd for it but that didnt work so far with my vig fake claim and I think it would've been pretty obvious that it was fake... not to mention the risk of the real joat_giver whatever outing himself after seeing my fakeclaim and thinking 'aha, got the last scum here!'. What you saw there was my live thought process... should I fake claim? nah.

To be fair though, that is entirely NAI ^^

[Dp101]

What. Ppl have been accusing me of bantering and reading me wolfy for that and now I'm supposed to not have fun?

I didn’t say you shouldn’t be having fun, what I said was that given the thread atmosphere when you claimed I’d be surprised if town!you would be playing around.