Small Mafia Game Chess - Game Thread [Concluded] [Archive] - Page 6

Montmorency

10-09-2017, 02:40

Actually I don't think so. Their leans meld pretty heavily.

Decide for yourself.

Winston 20 hours before EOD.

Zack
pizza
Monty
Fredwood
Dp101

Townpile.

GH
Logic
El Barto
Manasi
choxorn

scumpile

Slaan
Csargo
Kage
Cuth
reinoe
Xiahou

remainder

Residual Zack tinfoil.

EOD.

Vote: Choxorn

Vote with one of my top suspects on the counter-wagon to my #1 suspect?

:yes:

I got a bussy feeling off chox's vote.

GH still top suspect. Willing to vote Choxorn. Choxorn bussing Logic.

Pizza's comprehensive night-post.

Drifting in an out of this game as other things catch my attention, but.

There's way way more on Fred or reinoe or Monty than these excerpts, but they're representative of the posts I saw which put me toward town reading them.

I think I can only lock Winston Slaan Kage and dp right now, but I think all of the above three have enough where I could and potentially should find enough to lock them as well.

This was another good bit. I commented on it the first time but it bears repeating on Logic's flip.

This is pretty good. Not enough for a lock but serious consideration given. Will ISO in the morning. It is the morning, so after sleep.

I also want reinoe in the eventual town lineup, need to do the work to prove it first. This observation feels quite townie on Logic's flip. It could be a bridge too far, but I can't discount it. More important to me is if reinoe is scum/faking this post and I don't think so.

Keeping in mind my strong town read on Monty, the next tier is comprised of the following lock town candidates.

Lock
Askthepizzaguy
Winston Hughes
Slaan
Kagemusha
dp101

Candidate locks
Fredwood
reinoe
Monty

I have opinions and leans on the rest but nothing below is nearly as solid as the above.

If all 8 of the above are correct, I think I only need one more?

9 lock townies and 7 suspects is a solve, is it not? Or do I have my math wrong. Brain getting fuzzy. I literally just did it on my fingers and somehow I am still not sure I have that right. When the number of townies is two more than the number of lynches and the townies are all correct that's a solve, yes?

remaining:

GH
Csargo
El Barto
Zack
Cuthillius <---town lean
Manasi
Choxorn
Xiahou <--- town lean

And of those I wouldn't push Xiahou or Cuth, but I'd have to do a lot of diligent work on both before crowning them town. I had a good read on Cuth as being townie at one point too, but I feel like the others above are a tier above Cuth.

Ahh passing out by now. Yeah I really gotta stop here.

I think I could find one more townie if I had the time/energy. But because you can't let even one scum into the circle, I really have to put in serious work on fred/reinoe/monty/ ninth candidate.

Bah posting this, not even gonna look over it for mistakes.

Csargo

10-09-2017, 02:48

If he’s scum, he did nothing but tunnel his buddies all day. I don’t think that scum ever leaves him alive for wifom purposes because there’s no one alive who would (or at least should) tinfoil him. At this point I’m thinking either doc save (and there’s some other source of KP that killed Winston), redirector, or Pizza is horrifically wrong on something that winston was right on.

The tinfoil is always real Dp101, always.

Nah, you're probably right about the doc thing.

El Barto

10-09-2017, 02:58

I said I'd park my vote on GH for his twice-attempted counterwaggon to save Logic and I'll keep to it.
vote: GeneralHankerchief

You mean 1137? There's way less than 1337 posts right now.
See #1166 where I'd already corrected that.

I have still akin to 500 kilometers to drive home, but once there i am going to start showing my lines drawn to the air based on first day, in case i happen to perish n7ght one. My current conclusion is that GH should be default lynch for day two, unless something changes drastically.
Has anything changed drastically (other than for Winston, of course)?

Here he's going back and forth with Zack about how to read El Barto. I can see that Monty really wants to be able to read a slot that's difficult to read. On that note I'm fine with just leaving El Barto alone. It looks like he has a playstyle that will have me reading him scummy by default.
I am ashamed that I've been read this clearly this early.

Askthepizzaguy

10-09-2017, 03:00

Strongman necessarily means that we have a doctor or bulletproof and my guess ain't bulletproof.

Strongman also means the scums know to a large degree of accuracy that town has a doctor. Such a doctor would have only been targeting me last night, despite my prediction to cover Winston Hughes. If you recall I said he was a great alternative doctor protection. Other than me and Kage, no one got spewed more townie from yesterday, and Winston was the most consensus from that.

In other news, I sadly didn't shoot anybody.

Instead I pointed my finger and made a wish, and I said "pew pew pew", and obviously, my wish came true, as you can tell from the following diagram:

https://i.imgur.com/G3H2syV.gif

For those of you who can't parse that, it means as of yesterday, I did not have a shot to use. Sadface. Like Ben Finegold getting crushed by Magnus. See diagram.

https://i.imgur.com/0XAvfUZ.png

That, class, is what we call a...? Vanilla townie. Correct!

Should I have been a Vanilla townie? No. Do we like that we couldn't shoot anyone last night? No. What do we say to that, class?

Boooo.

I should get a vig at the start of every game, right?. Otherwise vanilla is my favorite role to rand.

That's okay. Things are still coming up Fine and/or Gold, na mean? I feel like we'll get payback for Winston's death tout suite regardless.

El Barto

10-09-2017, 03:04

Why are you speaking French now, pizza? Planning on surrendering to the mafia?

Askthepizzaguy

10-09-2017, 03:19

Why are you speaking French now, pizza? Planning on surrendering to the mafia?

https://i.imgur.com/cT2DNFG.gif

Walking into the worst joke ever. No one makes fun of the French except me, but in your defense, that's a far too advanced variation for you. :thumbsup:

Askthepizzaguy

10-09-2017, 03:23

I hear Nigel Short wrote a book, that one might be more your speed, know what I'm sayin'. It's got 15 pages, and most of that is the notes section at the end of the book.

Askthepizzaguy

10-09-2017, 03:26

When you're done with Short you can graduate and read a book by Mikhail Tal.

Baby steps.

Montmorency

10-09-2017, 03:29

Pizza, since when were you so into pop chess?

Askthepizzaguy

10-09-2017, 03:36

Pizza, since when were you so into pop chess?

I can't sleep due to the daily nightmares in the news, so I throw on chess videos and it gets my mind off of real life and onto something abstract. It also involves listening to a lot of people talk for hours on end, and when you're tired but can't sleep, a droning lecture can do the trick. It becomes hypnotic.

As a result, I've watched every single Finegold video, every Suren video, every Agadamator video, every MatoJelic video. I've also watched videos by Yasser Seirawan (NyQuil incarnate) and Jonathan Schrantz, and some other major chess channels.

I highly recommend MatoJelic. Especially his videos from about a year ago. That was his zone.

Choxorn

10-09-2017, 03:42

I think if GH flips scum then it confirms a few of Pizza's musings, it helps lock DP and Winston and looks fairly good for Fred off his exchange with GH (see Part IIB above).

Winston is confirmed town, by virtue of being dead and confirmed town by the host.

Montmorency

10-09-2017, 03:46

Winston is confirmed town, by virtue of being dead and confirmed town by the host.

I ran past the deadline making up the post, in case it wasn't clear. :creep:

El Barto

10-09-2017, 03:48

https://i.imgur.com/cT2DNFG.gif

Walking into the worst joke ever. No one makes fun of the French except me, but in your defense, that's a far too advanced variation for you. :thumbsup:
Oh no, you don't have a monopoly on the French even if they gave you letters of marque.

I hear Nigel Short wrote a book, that one might be more your speed, know what I'm sayin'. It's got 15 pages, and most of that is the notes section at the end of the book.
Translation (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/touché#English).

I tried catching up with the last 2 days ish and then I saw people voting me so I just came to check if I was lynched and guys look I wasn't.

Logic scum?

OPkie.wrpifjowigj.
FishFingerOfSuspicion: Manasi

Montmorency

10-09-2017, 03:52

I ran past the deadline making up the post, in case it wasn't clear. :creep:
Askthepizzaguy

This is why I don't want to rationally break down and compare Zack between those games. Someone else needs to step up for that to happen.

Skimming through the other game just to read Zack's posts D1 with fresh eyes took 30 minutes.

ISOing GH this D1 took me 3 hours.

Zack? We have a long day phase, but it's not gonna happen.

Askthepizzaguy

10-09-2017, 04:07

He's got enough variance within his play where I don't know how conclusive it would be anyway, and worse, who is gonna read it.

If it might not be right by a big degree and it's not gonna convince anyone anyway, then your efforts are better directed elsewhere.

Take a look at Fred, take a look at reinoe. I claim these two people belong in the town, and if that's wrong, I need someone better than me to explain why.

Those people either don't have much org meta or don't have infinity posts to analyze or both, and I think they might actually be alignment readable.

For Zack, he's got a profile that looks really townie at first glance, and he managed to wriggle into most people's town lists. Once there, he began acting like a classic Zackthescumbag, and it might not be a coincidence, maybe that's alignment related.

What I can say is that you'd be forgiven at this point for not knowing how to alignment read him. Other people, however, have a game that isn't so wildly up and down with confusing positives and negatives. Some folks here did some seriously good play yesterday and I just wanna know if those people are town.

We find enough townies and it doesn't matter if Zack ever gets iso'ed. I don't care about that.

And in the meantime, if he or GH or anyone who is a fundamentally good solver but looks kinda iffy has a good idea that solves the game, they can do that. Maybe it'll take them flipping town to persuade people, but I'd like to think I'm open minded enough to give it a good look before then.

They got a minimum of 3 days to wow us. In the meantime I'm more concerned with town-building that finding the exact correct person to lynch today. I just want to know who belongs in my town and who I can't safely let pass.

Zack

10-09-2017, 04:12

Winston is confirmed town, by virtue of being dead and confirmed town by the host.

This is choxorn's only post so far.

This is what he found important to point out.

Dp101

10-09-2017, 04:14

This is choxorn's only post so far.

This is what he found important to point out.

I feel really weird agreeing with you, but yeah, somehow, he managed to have a weaker post than Manasi, who completely misunderstood EoD.

Zack

10-09-2017, 04:16

I can't think of anyone off the top of my head who is even that wolfy right now, other than Barto and Choxorn. Maybe Monty or DP for what I still think were red flag EODs. Someone should take a closer look at the wagons.

I'm in an offsite game that starts tomorrow and will be much more active than this one, and Shadow of War comes out on Tuesday. Things seem to be well in hand anyways, don't need me much.

Askthepizzaguy

10-09-2017, 04:18

Kagemusha
dp101
Slaan
Fredwood

Before I continue (It's 5am and I'm apparently not sleeping on a school day, so forgive my lack of work so far) the poll question to all remains as such:

Does anyone think any of the above names do not belong as town reads, and why.

Particularly if you suspected them yesterday I'd like to hear your reason for still suspecting them, or if you've changed your mind.

A couple people answered but I have not gotten feedback from everyone. All opinions wanted.

Zack

10-09-2017, 04:19

Askthepizzaguy

10-09-2017, 04:22

I still think dp had a pretty weird eod

other three are fine, not interested in lynching there anytime soon

Are those other three fine enough to be lock for you? Is anyone lock town other than the dead Winston?

Zack

10-09-2017, 04:23

Are those other three fine enough to be lock for you? Is anyone lock town other than the dead Winston?

lock is really a term I reserve for someone who is mechanically confirmed town

Askthepizzaguy

10-09-2017, 04:24

I really posted too soon. An even more relevant question is, can you name someone else besides those names that belongs in the town more than they do. Did you see anything I didn't see.

Askthepizzaguy

10-09-2017, 04:25

lock is really a term I reserve for someone who is mechanically confirmed town

Differences in terminology aside.

Who would you think it would be a big huge mistake to lynch?

Zack

10-09-2017, 04:26

Once there, he began acting like a classic Zackthescumbag
This is not true.

I've made an effort to play differently recently anyways, this game included, so it's a moot point.

Askthepizzaguy

10-09-2017, 04:31

This is not true.

I've made an effort to play differently recently anyways, this game included, so it's a moot point.

I'm keeping an open mind.

In case I'm wrong about what I find suspicious mode helps me to not tunnel. As mentioned, no one was anywhere near as close to confirmed scum yesterday for me than Logic, who was just obvious to me, less obvious to those who don't know his meta.

Zack

10-09-2017, 04:32

I really posted too soon. An even more relevant question is, can you name someone else besides those names that belongs in the town more than they do. Did you see anything I didn't see.
Yes. It's not something I feel comfortable or is good play to reveal yet.

Differences in terminology aside.

Who would you think it would be a big huge mistake to lynch?
1. GH
4. Pizza
8. Zack
11. Slaan
17. Kagemusha

There are more people I don't think are close to being the best lynch choice, but not necessarily a "big huge mistake".

Montmorency

10-09-2017, 04:37

Yes. It's not something I feel comfortable or is good play to reveal yet.

1. GH
4. Pizza
8. Zack
11. Slaan
17. Kagemusha

There are more people I don't think are close to being the best lynch choice, but not necessarily a "big huge mistake".

Why GH?

Zack, yesterday in EOD I had 5 posts. What did you dislike about my EOD?

And DP had about a dozen posts, the first 3 of them defending you to Pizza and the rest reacting to the CFD stuff.

I don't think you ever townread me, but this is a quite a heel turn for an EOD moment.

Askthepizzaguy

10-09-2017, 04:42

Zack

10-09-2017, 04:43

Why GH?

Zack, yesterday in EOD I had 5 posts. What did you dislike about my EOD?

And DP had about a dozen posts, the first 3 of them defending you to Pizza and the rest reacting to the CFD stuff.

I don't think you ever townread me, but this is a quite a heel turn for an EOD moment.
I have either already explained any answer to the questions you're asking, or don't think it's prudent to answer.

Montmorency

10-09-2017, 04:46

Monty can you respond briefly to 1271.

You might have laid out your leans in another post that might answer that for me, but I don't feel like going digging just now. It's something you could answer me off the cuff.

I quibbled about "lock" town, but I'm not willing to lynch (as of now):

Pizza
DP
Kage
Slaan
Fred

And I don't want to lynch Csargo, even if he isn't in the same category.

Zack

10-09-2017, 04:51

Monty, how much was your heart in the choxorn push?

Montmorency

10-09-2017, 04:55

Monty, how much was your heart in the choxorn push?

Just enough to make a point.

Zack

10-09-2017, 04:55

What point was that?

Montmorency

10-09-2017, 04:57

What point was that?

That Choxorn was better for lynch than Manasi or Barto.

Askthepizzaguy

10-09-2017, 04:57

I quibbled about "lock" town, but I'm not willing to lynch (as of now):

Pizza
DP
Kage
Slaan
Fred

And I don't want to lynch Csargo, even if he isn't in the same category.

Thanks.

Yeah Csargo feels pretty okay to me by this point. I don't know if I'd call it a town read because I haven't read him a second time, but the opening iffy-ness has lessened.

Zack

10-09-2017, 04:59

That Choxorn was better for lynch than Manasi or Barto.

what about logic?

do you still think wrt chox/manasi/barto?

Montmorency

10-09-2017, 05:01

what about logic?

do you still think wrt chox/manasi/barto?

I wasn't directly challenging the Logic wagon.

Like a stone wall - nothing has changed, relatively speaking. If they were the last non-clear players, I would still lynch Choxorn first.

Zack

10-09-2017, 05:02

This gamestate is probably too easy, I'm guessing there's at least one wolf who was balls deep in Logic's lynch. Can't count the number of games where wolves made a hard d1 bus that bought them some time in the short term.

That said, it's not worth too much concern yet.

El Barto

10-09-2017, 05:22

Just before bed I'll point out I don't quite like how you horsed around with Winston at the very beginning of the game but then voted me for horsing around with Winston.

Askthepizzaguy

10-09-2017, 05:25

Just before bed I'll point out I don't quite like how you horsed around with Winston at the very beginning of the game but then voted me for horsing around with Winston.

Who, Zack? Some might say that's alignment-indicative. Some would say yea, others would say neigh. But then again I do like horsing around.

Have a good knight. ~:wave:

Zack

10-09-2017, 05:27

Just before bed I'll point out I don't quite like how you horsed around with Winston at the very beginning of the game but then voted me for horsing around with Winston.
1. The very beginning of the game is not the same as middle of the phase.

2. You can horse around, I don't really care. It's a problem when you do nothing else.

Zack

10-09-2017, 05:30

vote: choxorn

Don't really want to lynch barto anymore

I'm going to bed

and you conveniently skipped over this part too

Askthepizzaguy

10-09-2017, 05:37

After that post, what made you want to lynch Barto again?

Zack

10-09-2017, 05:47

After that post, what made you want to lynch Barto again?
That sequence made me think, hey, I'll give him space to work and do his thing. But he's not made much use of it.

I'd be lying if I said some it isn't also just, there are a good number of people who are cleared or at least look good from yesterday. POE and all.

I think Chox is a better lynch still, fwiw.

Zack

10-09-2017, 05:51

:sleeping:

Askthepizzaguy

10-09-2017, 06:06

Sooh

10-09-2017, 06:09

Vote count:

GH (2): Montmorency, El Barto,

Not voting (13): Cuthillius, Pizza, Slaan, Choxorn, Kagemusha, Csargo, Reinoe, Xiahou, Dp101, GH, Zack, Fredwood, Manasi

With 15 players there are 8 to hammer.

EOD1:
https://pending.me.uk/cd/bla_1507759200.png

Askthepizzaguy

10-09-2017, 06:12

I get to be third on the wagon. That would be nice.

GH do you remember the good ole days when being third on the wagon was considered scummy?

Man, this one's gonna be tough to explain.

Vote: Generalhankerchief

Xiahou

10-09-2017, 06:27

I still think Zack is a good choice, but GH seems like the clearer one right now. It's good to see my suspicions supported by some good reasoning (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152969-Chess-Game-Thread-In-Play&p=2053762652&viewfull=1#post2053762652).

Vote: Generalhankerchief

Askthepizzaguy

10-09-2017, 06:27

Noting it is a hammer day and that every day in this game is a hammer day.

If you hammer, he'd better flip scum, that's all I'm gonna say about that.

Askthepizzaguy

10-09-2017, 06:30

But Xiahou you're exempt from the hammer thing. You don't gotta worry as we're like 4 away anyway.

Off to school. Talk more in a few hours maybe?

Csargo

10-09-2017, 06:40

Vote:GH

Dp101

10-09-2017, 06:56

I'm not going to vote him until he posts with some kind of defense. Feels wrong to hammer someone that fast.

Kagemusha

10-09-2017, 09:03

Vote: GH . Cant think of any other lynch that would out weight lynching him. If someone wants to persuade me otherwise i am all ears.

Sooh

10-09-2017, 10:14

Vote count:

GH (6): Montmorency, El Barto, Pizza, Xiahou, Csargo, Kagemusha,

Not voting (9): Cuthillius, Slaan, Choxorn, Reinoe, Dp101, GH, Zack, Fredwood, Manasi

With 15 players there are 8 to hammer.

GH is at L-2

EOD1:
https://pending.me.uk/cd/bla_1507759200.png

Askthepizzaguy

10-09-2017, 11:22

Unvote

I intend to lynch him today, but discussion time. -2 is too close to him self-voting to cut off the time we can use.

Let me know when everyone is ready to continue, and I'll swing a hammer vote.

Askthepizzaguy

10-09-2017, 11:29

Nap, then more townie finding.

Kagemusha

10-09-2017, 12:30

This complete radio silence from GH might suggest that he is simply depriving us from any further information.

Sooh

10-09-2017, 12:40

Vote count:

GH (5): Montmorency, El Barto, Xiahou, Csargo, Kagemusha,

Not voting (10): Cuthillius, Slaan, Choxorn, Reinoe, Dp101, GH, Zack, Fredwood, Manasi, Pizza

With 15 players there are 8 to hammer.

EOD1:
https://pending.me.uk/cd/bla_1507759200.png

GeneralHankerchief

10-09-2017, 14:34

This complete radio silence from GH might suggest that he is simply depriving us from any further information.

Or that I'm busy.

Anyway you're not going to lynch me today.

Will talk more when I get time.

GeneralHankerchief

10-09-2017, 14:37

In the meantime, if somebody could produce a summarized case against me, I'd appreciate it. :yes:

Askthepizzaguy

10-09-2017, 15:14

In the meantime, if somebody could produce a summarized case against me, I'd appreciate it. :yes:

You have as many posts as a chess board has squares and they all scummy.

GeneralHankerchief

10-09-2017, 15:18

You have as many posts as a chess board has squares and they all scummy.

Nah, I remember me being one of your towns midway through D1. Lose the roleplay and give me an honest summary.

Manasi

10-09-2017, 15:24

cabbage

noose

calzone

Kagemusha

10-09-2017, 15:24

Nah, I remember me being one of your towns midway through D1. Lose the roleplay and give me an honest summary.

At which point did you stop reading?

Dp101

10-09-2017, 15:36

In the meantime, if somebody could produce a summarized case against me, I'd appreciate it. :yes:

Montmorency’s ISO of you is the best one IMO, on mobile so not about to link it but I think the 2 posts are about a page back.

Askthepizzaguy

10-09-2017, 15:37

Zack and dp look okay, Zack seems really natural and flow-y and Dp seems uncomfortable so far which is pretty solidly in his town meta.

Everyone else is either null or confusing.

Yeah, dp's lock town. Take this read to the bank.

I also think it's highly likely that one or more of the people pushing him are mafia, because I literally came out and said the exact thing that Dp did w/r/t Pizza in fewer words and I'm taking ~no heat for it.

That's exactly what I'm saying. I think if it was an honest push on dp, the people making it would be roping me in as well and painting us with the same brush. Since I've pretty much escaped heat for it, I think the more likely explanation is that it's a calculated push designed to go after the person more likely to be mislynched (sorry dp).

Either that or it's just a lazy read in the first place because it's not a real read to begin with. :yes:

Here's where I'm at right now:

I think Zack and Dp are still town.

(snip)

Kage, follow me onto Cuth, his vote on Dp was bad.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_caU5EZcrn7w/TKAhQ32GPsI/AAAAAAAAAL4/DJ462F926bk/s1600/aladdin_do_you_trust_me.jpg

Nah, not really buying this.

For starters I don't think Logic is mafia, it was pretty easy to shade him in the endgame of Pokemon and I'm detecting a lot of the same stuff here.

Secondly you're putting way too much emphasis on a single scumread of yours, half of your townies are simply the people who joined your wagon for goodness sake.

Stop tunneling, spread out, and read the whole game besides your black/white dichotomy on Logic and Csargo to a lesser extent. You're better than this regardless of alignment.

Okay your Kage post was better, but I think you're still tunneling/lacking context. Kage is Kage, Logic is Logic, and one of them is definitely more naturally uncomfortable.

I mean, how many times does someone call a naturally suspicious looking person a wolf 1/3 into d1, literally almost the entire game says "sure bud" and votes him, and they actually flip wolf?
Yeah, this is pretty much where I'm at. Let's diversify.

My context on Logic is way better than anyone else's.
Look for yourself. Pick a game, any game. Pizza's Logic=Townie challenge.I'll check it out at some point in the phase, sure. But I'm not going to change my read on him in the meantime just because you told me to.

Who are you looking at then?Well, now that I'm finally live, some combination of Fred, Barto, and Reinoe. I'd also like to stay live for a little while.

In your experience, how often has the consensus lynch choice halfway through a D1 been correct?

And what do you mean "unfortunately?" If you're town you're not hemmed into any particular read here, you get to say what you want.

Winston, thoughts on Fred's "unfortunately"?

I mean, the interpretation/paraphrase that makes most sense to me is the following:

There are two wagons right now, Logic and Barto. I'm scumreading Barto more than Logic but am fine with either lynch. Unfortunately I'm still going to vote Logic despite my greater scumread of Logic.

It just... doesn't make sense from town? It's almost like he's trying to appease Pizza.

This is super lazy, you should vote for your biggest scumread regardless of context except for very specific exceptions.

This isn't one of them.

Town's job is to use the time available to rebalance the information equation in its favour.

Scum's job is to ensure town guesses wrong at eod.For the town part you're generally correct, but I think you're oversimplifying the mafia's job. There's a lot more nuance to it, working on multiple levels to ensure both short and longterm success.

Luckily all I have to do is just say what's on my mind this game. :yes:

GH
Logic
El Barto
Manasi
choxorn

scumpile

@reinoe (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=100841)

I'm somewhere around here right now:

Zack
Kage
Monty

Dp101
reinoe
Slaan
Logic
Winston
ATPG

---town line---

Csargo
Xiahou
Cuth
Fredwood
El Barto

Choxorn
Manasi

~~~~~~
(snip)

Logic has a larger sample size than Xiahou to judge, and he's acting in line with his town meta as per the context of the game as I mentioned yesterday. :yes:

No idea about the other issue unfortunately. Just one of those things.

I'm bored.

Vote: Choxorn

I pretty much had my big post about Choxorn already, the long story short of it is I don't think he's within his town meta.

Here's the link (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152969-Chess-Game-Thread-In-Play&p=2053762208&viewfull=1#post2053762208)
With less than 30 mins to go:

Out of principle, I'm staying on Choxorn.

I mean, when have CFDs ever helped anyone. They always seem to exchange a reasonable lynch option for one that is essentially rand.I seem to recall you being the successful target of one in Jabbz's game.

And I don't think this is something you would forget either.

Vote: Dp101

Join me.

In all seriousness he's been on the business end of CFDs at least twice, one of them directly and he still pulls out that line.

I just can't believe you'd ever actually have that thought considering your own personal track record.

VOTE DP DO IT

Chinese Fire Drill - last second lynch on someone who previously wasn't in contention, usually because you don't have a good feeling about things.

Or if somebody slips up.

Yeah.

Current self-portrait:

https://i.imgur.com/N1NYRuv.jpg

Good job, everyone. :2thumbsup:

Nah, I remember me being one of your towns midway through D1. Lose the roleplay and give me an honest summary.

https://i.imgur.com/jJvkOo6.png

Crow is tastier than what you were trying to serve up at end of day, you slimy scumball.

Askthepizzaguy

10-09-2017, 16:09

https://i.imgur.com/ApDIkyx.gif

Fredwood

10-09-2017, 16:27

Keep checking the thread, waiting for GH. Not much that I've seen or thought has really changed my mind about my town core or my suss list. Just waiting at this point. I hesitate to give clearance for ISO walls but Monty's was a lot more in depth then the typical scum trying to ISO commentary info dump wall posts, but i don't have a reference point on what a Scum Monty ISO wall would look like, I'm sure someone will show me one before he becomes a priority.

TLDR; Monty isn't in my lynch pile, not quite town not quite null. That's the only real movement so far today.

Askthepizzaguy

10-09-2017, 16:28

To put it another way:

https://i.imgur.com/5uMKfBv.gif

This position looks a little iffy. Especially the stuff happening on the G and the H files.

GeneralHankerchief

10-09-2017, 16:42

Okay I might be able to take a look at Monty's iso in an hour or two.

Don't hammer me - it's going to be critically important to see how all of the generally unclear people react to me.

Zack

10-09-2017, 17:00

I don't think GH goes for the "lolchaos" trick twice as a wolf

Askthepizzaguy

10-09-2017, 17:18

I don't think GH goes for the "lolchaos" trick twice as a wolf

Hopefully after this game he won't do it again, too.

Askthepizzaguy

10-09-2017, 17:20

Less lolchaos, more lolcatos.

Xiahou

10-09-2017, 17:24

So what do GH's contradicting statements on Dp101 say about Dp101, if anything?

GeneralHankerchief

10-09-2017, 17:25

Hopefully after this game he won't do it again, too.

Okay real quick, because I'm tired of people misappropriating the "chaos" thing:

In Pokemon, when I did it for the first AND ONLY TIME as mafia, there was a specific reason I did it: Because the lynch was tied between Choxorn and Raith. Choxorn had been taking pressure all game and I figured he would be an easy mislynch anytime we needed one. Meanwhile, Raith's wagon came out of nowhere and seemingly for no reason that I could detect while skimming the thread at that highway rest stop. I acted; I went for the mislynch that I figured would be harder to get down the line.

Now, let's take a look at this game. Does that apply at all?

Logic was a dead man walking. Dead. He posted, what, once total, the last 48 hours of D1? If I was his partner, especially knowing he was the strongman, I would have cut my losses at some point and bussed him into oblivion. The dude wasn't doing anything and it would have been easy cred there for the taking. I kept my vote off Logic because I thought he was in his town meta, and moved it onto Choxorn.

With 30 minutes or however long to go in the round I knew Logic was dying no matter what, but when Dp made that post that was so incredibly hard for me to fathom him making considering his own past experience with CFDs I reacted.

There is literally no comparison to the two scenarios here, and I'm frankly a little insulted that you'd even think so.

Fredwood

10-09-2017, 17:25

Less lolchaos, more lolcatos.

http://images2.fanpop.com/images/photos/5400000/Cute-turtles-5465857-400-300.jpg

Kagemusha

10-09-2017, 17:31

GH can you please share us your scum suspects?

Askthepizzaguy

10-09-2017, 17:47

Now, let's take a look at this game. Does that apply at all?

Logic was a dead man walking. Dead. He posted, what, once total, the last 48 hours of D1? If I was his partner, especially knowing he was the strongman, I would have cut my losses at some point and bussed him into oblivion.

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=WIFOM

WIFOM is the circular reasoning that results from trying to determine the choices of an opponent who acted with full knowledge that their behavior would be subject to scrutiny.

There is literally no comparison to the two scenarios here, and I'm frankly a little insulted that you'd even think so.

Well we can both be a little insulted that you expect me to believe what DP said amounts to a slip that makes all his town points vanish.

Also the "unfortunately" thing with Fredwood is grasping at straws.

When you flip scum, I get a lot of townies, brother man. If you don't, use the time to be more correct than me with your reads. That's all I got for you today.

GeneralHankerchief

10-09-2017, 17:49

Incorrect!

Askthepizzaguy

10-09-2017, 18:01

So what do GH's contradicting statements on Dp101 say about Dp101, if anything?

So far looks to me like it means that unless your name is Zack, having a strong/lock town read won't save you from GH's end of day death whims.

(In this game, and for alignment reasons imo)

GH had just gotten through saying you should vote your top scum read and he had choxorn as scummy, and had a 'principled' vote for him.

That had a wagon that could succeed conceivably. GH also just admitted just now he didn't feel like the cfd onto dp101 would work, so:

1) He thought Logic was for sure town

2) He thought choxorn was scum and that was the most likely alternative to lynch

3) He thought dp101 was lock townie all round, and also, that cfd'ing onto him wouldn't lynch him.

And now I am expected to believe that this is the route that town GH believes would result in any kind of pro-town benefit.

In the words of Hikaru Hakamura, "Frankly, Terrible."

Askthepizzaguy

10-09-2017, 18:02

Incorrect!

You gave it your best shot. You tried.

The lesson is, never try.

Askthepizzaguy

10-09-2017, 18:05

*Nakamura ofc.

No edits allowed.

GeneralHankerchief

10-09-2017, 18:06

You gave it your best shot. You tried.

The lesson is, never try.

It's cute that you still think I'm dying today.

Anyway, I never said I thought Logic was "for sure town", I said I thought he was in his town meta.

And Dp's post/reaction was terrible. My read on him changed.

Askthepizzaguy

10-09-2017, 18:11

It's cute that you still think I'm dying today.

Vote: Generalhankerchief

Askthepizzaguy

10-09-2017, 18:16

I'll unvote you if you post one lolcat, GH.

GeneralHankerchief

10-09-2017, 18:16

Don't hammer me - it's going to be critically important to see how all of the generally unclear people react to me.

Okay in all seriousness, listen to the above.

Pizza especially needs to let the thread breathe. Let me do my thing, and more importantly, let people in the Choxorn/Manasi/Xiahou/El Barto/etc bucket do theirs.

Askthepizzaguy

10-09-2017, 18:18

Okay in all seriousness, listen to the above.

Pizza especially needs to let the thread breathe. Let me do my thing, and more importantly, let people in the Choxorn/Manasi/Xiahou/El Barto/etc bucket do theirs.

I'm getting impatient. No one's going to believe you when you claim doctor, so give up the ship, ye old scallywag.

Manasi

10-09-2017, 18:20

Guys I think GH is a villager.

Askthepizzaguy

10-09-2017, 18:23

Guys I think GH is a villager.

I'll let you explain it. You have the floor. Glhf

Dp101

10-09-2017, 18:23

Guys I think GH is a villager.

S P I C Y. Why

Dp101

10-09-2017, 18:32

I’m not sure how to see GH’s insistence that he’s clean. The only reason I might consider anyone other than him for the lynch today is because of Futurama, where he managed to frame himself completely as a villager. But if that was the case, I’d expect him to be very aware of how screwed he is and to be engaging with the critiques more directly. I really am having trouble figuring out what he’s thinking right now.

Csargo

10-09-2017, 18:34

Unvote: GH

Askthepizzaguy

10-09-2017, 18:35

I’m not sure how to see GH’s insistence that he’s clean.

Bluffing, stalling, anti-spew.

Wasting time and later, claims doc and some folks might even believe him. Don't.

They know we have a doc, and that's the only thing that could save his skin, and he's gonna try to claim something.

We'd be fools to buy the claim over his body of work, so don't.

Kagemusha

10-09-2017, 18:37

Kagemusha

10-09-2017, 18:39

Unvote: GH

Csargo dont let him slip away. Not now.

Askthepizzaguy

10-09-2017, 18:40

GH Old friend. You do have style, but i dont see you having a case. Is this round about you being scum or not, or do you have a better lynch in your pocket? Because if you dont, going in circles does us little good and is frankly waste of time.

Yep.

When dinner is over, it's back to real work. Game's not over yet and I still have a few names I gotta explain why they're town as a legacy read.

GeneralHankerchief

10-09-2017, 18:41

GH Old friend. You do have style, but i dont see you having a case. Is this round about you being scum or not, or do you have a better lynch in your pocket? Because if you dont, going in circles does us little good and is frankly waste of time.

I just want everybody to check in. This is our last 72 hour day phase, we need to use the time well.

Askthepizzaguy

10-09-2017, 18:45

Our old scallywag friend has a point. Since he's not doing anything productive, the rest of us should be.

Instead of waiting for a shoe that isn't about to drop (peg leg and all), the rest of us should stop waiting and start isoing.

Sooh

10-09-2017, 19:29

El Barto

10-09-2017, 19:45

Who, Zack? Some might say that's alignment-indicative. Some would say yea, others would say neigh. But then again I do like horsing around.

Have a good knight. ~:wave:
It would seem that you're a bit be(k)nighted by all your puns.

1. The very beginning of the game is not the same as middle of the phase.

2. You can horse around, I don't really care. It's a problem when you do nothing else.
1. Do as Zack says, not as he does
2. Have I really not done anything else?

vote: choxorn

Don't really want to lynch barto anymore

I'm going to bed
and you conveniently skipped over this part too
Thanks for drawing attention to the fact that you were on the counterwaggon. :bow:

I feel like making GH cry today and voting for him.

Actually, I think he'd be kind of grateful to me at this point. And dead. So you know what that would make him?

A walking dead fan.
*shifty eyes*

It's not winning unless your opponent cries.
Their tears taste sweeter than liquorice.

cabbage

noose

calzone
Right.

El Barto

10-09-2017, 19:46

It's cute that you still think I'm dying today.

Anyway, I never said I thought Logic was "for sure town", I said I thought he was in his town meta.

And Dp's post/reaction was terrible. My read on him changed.
Please explain all three in more detail.
Are you claiming godfather?

Csargo

10-09-2017, 20:44

Csargo dont let him slip away. Not now.

I'd prefer not to hammer <24 hours from the start of this day is all.

Montmorency

10-09-2017, 21:16

You gave it your best shot. You tried.

The lesson is, never try.

The lesson is, always make the same mistake twice.

Re: GH, the thing about the CFD is that it's hard to believe that the read on DP changes so quickly and dramatically and loudly, for a 'slip' that's at worst a ping in the pocket to confront him with during night or the next day.

Could GH really be a wounded Vietnam vet who's visiting his daughter in town and needs just a few bucks to get gas so he can drive back to the base?

Slaan

10-09-2017, 21:59

Boy I'm just overall bothered by GH this game... just skimmed his ISO and nothing makes sense.

- Randomly votes around. First Csargo, then me, then on Cuth which was a seriously vote apparently (since afterwards he tried to get other ppl on it) but didnt bother to give a reason (Post 477 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152969-Chess-Game-Thread-In-Play&p=2053761484&highlight=#post2053761484)). Maybe I missed it since I only skimmed but I dont think so
- Post 487 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152969-Chess-Game-Thread-In-Play&p=2053761496&viewfull=1#post2053761496) bothered me, it suprises me that he read me and Fred so strongly even though GH saw a max of 3 games from me apparently (Anni, 1 day of Champ game, Wild West)... over the duno how many games you guys had here on the Org.
- His Logic defence being wrong... for most ppl I dont mind them much being wrong and maybe I expect too much but still
- And most importantly: Where is his solving? Today nothing so far, there wasnt much yesterday as well as far as I've seen... I mean I get he has to kinda defend himself today but why isnt he wolf hunting?

He is just playing bad all over in my eyes... which is annoying as I don't see this happening from either scum!GH or town!GH. Only thing I can think of is him being a bit bored for random mafia yet again. Saw a post from Lime on discord lately and GH apparently randed wolf in at least 4 games lately: Wildcard reuinion, The thing, Xcom, Wild West ..

So yea GH, give us something. If you hand us your partners we promise to lynch you last :)

Sooh

10-09-2017, 22:11

Vote count:

GH (5): Montmorency, El Barto, Xiahou, Kagemusha, Pizza

Not voting (10): Cuthillius, Slaan, Choxorn, Reinoe, Dp101, GH, Zack, Fredwood, Manasi, Csargo,

With 15 players there are 8 to hammer.

EOD1:
https://pending.me.uk/cd/bla_1507759200.png

(I will be away from the thread for at least 6hrs now and then later for another several hours while at work. If hammer falls, whoever is lynched is to stop posting, and the rest can proceed to post in twilight until I'm available to do a flip.)

Slaan

10-09-2017, 22:19

I'd want for GH to do _something_ before he is hammered so I'll keep my vote off him for now.

El Barto

10-09-2017, 23:08

I'd prefer not to hammer <24 hours from the start of this day is all.
This would mean that you actually have something to do regarding the game during those 24 hours, right?

I'd want for GH to do _something_ before he is hammered so I'll keep my vote off him for now.
Please specify what definition of ‘hammered’ you're using here.

Montmorency

10-09-2017, 23:37

I feel like making GH cry today and voting for him.

Actually, I think he'd be kind of grateful to me at this point. And dead. So you know what that would make him?

A walking dead fan.
*shifty eyes*

It's not winning unless your opponent cries.

Who, Zack? Some might say that's alignment-indicative. Some would say yea, others would say neigh. But then again I do like horsing around.

Have a good knight. ~:wave:

Belated, but that's too much man.

There's a problem with this game. Despite yet another record-breaking D1 for post count, there isn't really all that much left to analyze. There haven't been many twists or turns, D1 had been relatively straightforward in its course and D2 is non-existent.

So there's not much to speculate on and not much point in striving for that speculation. We blew the load D1 and left D2 without a natural progression.

What that means is there's nothing much left for us to do other than get a flip and suck up the info, which then further railroads the game course and leaves us with even less to do or discuss.

Montmorency

10-09-2017, 23:38

Unless GH is town, then it opens up again. But that doesn't change the field today, as it is.

Csargo

10-09-2017, 23:42

This would mean that you actually have something to do regarding the game during those 24 hours, right?

Please specify what definition of ‘hammered’ you're using here.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

Slaan

10-09-2017, 23:42

Please specify what definition of ‘hammered’ you're using here.

There are different definitions? I was referring to end the day early by having (currently) 8 votes on GH which would end it prematurely. Which other definition is there?

I'm fine with hammering GH tomorrow at roughly 24:00 CET (so 24h before the day would be regularly over) if he hasnt done anything until then, as I'd just assume scum!GH to be wasting our time at this point.

Slaan

10-09-2017, 23:45

Belated, but that's too much man.

There's a problem with this game. Despite yet another record-breaking D1 for post count, there isn't really all that much left to analyze. There haven't been many twists or turns, D1 had been relatively straightforward in its course and D2 is non-existent.

So there's not much to speculate on and not much point in striving for that speculation. We blew the load D1 and left D2 without a natural progression.

What that means is there's nothing much left for us to do other than get a flip and suck up the info, which then further railroads the game course and leaves us with even less to do or discuss.

100% agree here.... The Logic flip doesnt do much so far... but I'm afraid a GH flip wouldnt do much either since ther eis hardly any controversy about it. Manasi checked inf or a sex and said she thinks he is town without going further into it and thats about it. Idk how would defend GH at this point anyway... especially if he is mafia.

I'm gonna laugh hard if manasi/chox/GH are our last 3 mafia and they feel so defeated rn that they don't even really attempt to play.

Zack

10-09-2017, 23:53

I don't get why so many people are acting like gh is outed

Dp101

10-09-2017, 23:58

I don't get why so many people are acting like gh is outed

Have you not read the cases against him? They are pretty damming. I don’t get why you can’t see why so many people think he’s outed.

Slaan

10-10-2017, 00:02

I don't get why so many people are acting like gh is outed

Why do you think GH is mafia? Who would your lynch be?

Slaan

10-10-2017, 00:03

Why do you think GH isnt* mafia

Zack

10-10-2017, 00:03

how about you read my posts instead of asking stuff I already talked about

Zack

10-10-2017, 00:13

Have you not read the cases against him? They are pretty damming. I don’t get why you can’t see why so many people think he’s outed.
I've skimmed some

I'm unconvinced and it's certainly not enough for the entire game to call him an essentially outed wolf less than 1/3 into the phase

Choxorn

10-10-2017, 00:19

It's cute that you still think I'm dying today.

What makes you think you're not dying?

Choxorn

10-10-2017, 00:20

It's cute that you still think I'm dying today.

What makes you think you're not dying?

Choxorn

10-10-2017, 00:20

My bad about the double post.

Askthepizzaguy

10-10-2017, 00:23

I'm gonna laugh hard if manasi/chox/GH are our last 3 mafia and they feel so defeated rn that they don't even really attempt to play.

If my townies are all correct the game's over.

Pretty sure one of Cuth or Xiahou is town and if I pick the right one it's gg.

Then it's just a shit ton of phases where we kill the POE starting with the scummiest people.

And it's kind of obvious who even needs to die first. Like Barto seems fine now, for example.

Askthepizzaguy

10-10-2017, 00:25

Askthepizzaguy

10-10-2017, 00:28

So again, just putting this out there

Askthepizzaguy
Kagemusha
Dp101
Slaan
-------
Fredwood
Monty
reinoe
------
Cuth
Xiahou

Who doesn't go there? That's my tiers and people aren't even pushing against them. The top 4 are just rock solid, and all of day 1 looks fantastic for the next 3.

Xiahou hasn't done enough to look scummy. I mean even if I somehow sucked at reading Cuth, where you gonna put the black pieces to avoid checkmate here?

Basically you gotta wait it out and hope town gets into silly time and lynches above one of those lines. Boring.

Montmorency

10-10-2017, 00:29

I even think they're both town, so.

Basically what I wanted to talk about today was who doesn't belong in my town, and even the POE'd suspects haven't given me a real good reason why any of them don't go there.

DP101 is not mafia, so that's a no sell. Surprised people aren't even pushing reinoe, he doesn't have meta on this site and enterprising scumbags should think he's gettable.

Starting to see why end of day 1 went so badly for the wolves. They probably saw before we did how badly the rest of the game goes for them, had to do something.

I like POE/spreadsheet thinking, but let's not get too excited when the game just began.

Including today we have 7 lynches (assuming standard 1 death per night).

[Reinoe?]
[Xiahou | Cuth]
[GH | Zack]
[Chox
Bart
Manasi]

So there's some margin of error, even if there are no sleeper agents among your lock town.

Dp101

10-10-2017, 00:30

What makes you think you're not dying?

Hi. Would you kindly clear yourself if you have the time, or at least, post enough that you become readable. Having half your posts this phase being either duplicates or apologising about duplicates is not the greatest of looks.

Askthepizzaguy

10-10-2017, 00:31

We have 8 town-controlled deaths. Remember I can vig people with my magical pointer finger of pew pew pew, despite my vanilla townie-ness.

*shifty eyes*

Askthepizzaguy

10-10-2017, 00:33

I like POE/spreadsheet thinking, but let's not get too excited when the game just began.

Including today we have 7 lynches (assuming standard 1 death per night).

[Reinoe?]
[Xiahou | Cuth]
[GH | Zack]
[Chox
Bart
Manasi]

So there's some margin of error, even if there are no sleeper agents among your lock town.

This is what I'd do.

1) GH dies today
2) Zack goes next
3) Manasi
4) Choxorn
5) Don't even care who next, think the game is over by then. Whoever is still alive that isn't in my top 2 tiers, to make it interesting.

Askthepizzaguy

10-10-2017, 00:34

You could invert choxorn and Manasi if you wanted. Don't care. Choxorn at least looks like he's trying to look like a townie, give him a phase to lynch the scum that isn't him I guess.

Montmorency

10-10-2017, 00:34

This is what I'd do.

1) GH dies today
2) Zack goes next
3) Manasi
4) Choxorn
5) Don't even care who next, think the game is over by then. Whoever is still alive that isn't in my top 2 tiers, to make it interesting.

So are you saying should we, like, hammer hammer hammer to reach endgame by the end of the week?

Dp101

10-10-2017, 00:39

Hammering isn’t actually that bad in a game where the thread stays open at night.

Slaan

10-10-2017, 00:39

how about you read my posts instead of asking stuff I already talked about

So I just went ahead and read every post so made D2 so far and there were only two in regards to defending GH, one where someone else asked you about your townread on GH where you responded like this

I have either already explained any answer to the questions you're asking, or don't think it's prudent to answer.

and an independed one

I don't think GH goes for the "lolchaos" trick twice as a wolf

And I'm a bit lazy and don't want to ISO you 100% rn to find your D1 defence of GH especially since it will raise questions anyway considering GH's defence of Logic D1 and Logics subsequent scum flip. So please, explain us your townread on GH given all the information we have right now, would be much appreciated.

Askthepizzaguy

10-10-2017, 00:39

So are you saying should we, like, hammer hammer hammer to reach endgame by the end of the week?

It's not sound towning technically but if people keep flipping wolf, then yes.

Put em out of their misery.

Askthepizzaguy

10-10-2017, 00:41

Yeah, use the thread at night I guess. With every major suspect simply stalling today I'm ready to move on, which is why I'm voting.

Slaan

10-10-2017, 00:42

Dp101

10-10-2017, 00:44

I'm not sure on Monty tbh, but too lazy to do the work rn. Fred/rein look fine and cuth/xia... both I have in my null, wouldnt know why to put either as towny.

Cuth was slightly spewed town by Logic.

Askthepizzaguy

10-10-2017, 00:45

I'm not sure on Monty tbh, but too lazy to do the work rn. Fred/rein look fine and cuth/xia... both I have in my null, wouldnt know why to put either as towny.

That's basically what I have left to do. I see it but I have to convince the others in the circle that they're towning together.

I dunno how to do that with reinoe except show you the work he's done.

But look, if Zack flips scum, reinoe has hella posts on day 1 that lock clear him. He's got posts where he talks about how Logic and Zack are scum together AND independently. If both flip wolf, that's a lock. And I'm always killing Zack before I'd ever consider killing reinoe.

Slaan

10-10-2017, 00:45

Yeah, use the thread at night I guess. With every major suspect simply stalling today I'm ready to move on, which is why I'm voting.

I give GH until next 00:00 GOAT time.. or closely to it. So far he hasnt made any attempt imo to really play the game and I'd imagine if he finally randed V again he'd be all over this game so... yea curious if he will actually show up and do stuff or not.

Askthepizzaguy

10-10-2017, 00:47

Slaan

10-10-2017, 00:48

Cuth was slightly spewed town by Logic.

I hardly see it... not nearly enough anyway to put Cuth in my '8 ppl I'd like to get NK'd with this game' pile or whatever. Has he posted today? Don't even know

Askthepizzaguy

10-10-2017, 00:48

The wolf team is in forced mate. We can be sloppy and extend the game and make it suffer, or we can be right and kill the wolves in the fastest sequence, but the end is still the same. It's still checkmate.

None of those people I just mentioned are wolves given how scummy these guys look and how they're about to die and flip wolf.

Askthepizzaguy

10-10-2017, 00:49

We're never even gonna get to Csargo and Barto.

Askthepizzaguy

10-10-2017, 00:50

Fredwood should be completely locked town on GH's flip, if he's not already.

And I've never had a stronger town read on Monty in any game ever, ever.

And since Xiahou has been all over both Zack and GH, if both are scum, he's lock.

Those flips kill the game. So let's kill it.
For strong emphasis.

We already have a shit ton of lock or strong townies, if these suspects are right it's too many lock townies.

These flips give me that lock, or make the game interesting and mysterious again. I'm all ready to see it.

Slaan

10-10-2017, 00:50

Havent done flip associations yet of ppl that still have to flip. Though I gotta say Zack and GH being scum together seems kinda unlikely the way it's gone today... would imagine one going full on bus on the other or smth, not buddy buddy powerwolf style which is bound to fail considering how the game progressed so far.

Montmorency

10-10-2017, 00:52

And since Xiahou has been all over both Zack and GH, if both are scum, he's lock.

A tinfoil: given he's the lurkiest player here, couldn't he be deep or power wolfing or what have you?

Askthepizzaguy

10-10-2017, 00:56

A tinfoil: given he's the lurkiest player here, couldn't he be deep or power wolfing or what have you?

Yeah, his strategy could be to vote for scums while another scum hangs and then continue voting all the scums and then... still alive at final 3.

It's a bad strategy for a reason. But sure, re-examine everyone at final 3, but I'd play the odds on this. This isn't wolfing.

Askthepizzaguy

10-10-2017, 00:57

Slaan

10-10-2017, 00:57

I get it pizza. And I agree (with some minor caveats)... but we shouldnt think us victorious just yet. Suprising things always happen and I wouldnt be super suprised if there is in the end only one wolf under GH/manasi/chox... just because I've very very rarely solved the game after D1 in my 7 years of playing (and arguably when it worked it was mostly lucky guessing ^^). I like rein as town for probably all the wrong reason and would have to check her out again at some point, same with most others. Thing is the ISO function here is kinda annoying and makes me not want to do it...

It's weird, I'm kinda trapped in a game here that's between my homesite and MU. Few good tools to use (same as my homsite) but activity similiar to MU which makes rereading stuff annoying. Also I see a clear path to be taken rn which gives me even less motivation to go and check ppl out again.

I'm also really wondering which roles there will be in this game in the end. Doc is clear on our side... but I imagine a vig would've vigged Chox or someone last night. Maybe Winston was vigged from mafia and their NK on pizza failed? What other roles could there be in a game such as this? (my homeboard only uses the same boring roles over and over and they don't seem likely)... don't speculate on this, don't think it helps town... just things I wonder.

Would Sooh tell us if there is 3p around?

Montmorency

10-10-2017, 00:58

Yeah, his strategy could be to vote for scums while another scum hangs and then continue voting all the scums and then... still alive at final 3.

It's a bad strategy for a reason. But sure, re-examine everyone at final 3, but I'd play the odds on this. This isn't wolfing.

Not in terms of wolfing (for now), but wrt your strategy of finding the townies. I don't think you can call Xiahou town just on these votes, since the process isn't there (N/A, lack data).

Askthepizzaguy

10-10-2017, 01:01

Slaan

10-10-2017, 01:03

The thing that gets me currently is that I don't have strong cases on anyone for being scum... it's mostly low key stuff like not being on board of the scum!Logic lynch, a scummy tonal post in case of Chox, Manasi just not caring whatsover about this game... those are all weak reasons but I don't have anything better which annoys me. And I don't see where I can find anything better so far with the limited info available.

Now that we have a sorta roadmap that isnt going away, it's now a 'be on board or become part of the PoE' in a sense... which is bad for discussion. Not that I have a solution for that, I'm in favor of the lynches laid out for the next few days but this entire game state feels weird. Maybe it's just my inner me not believing we got it that easy.

Askthepizzaguy

10-10-2017, 01:03

Not in terms of wolfing (for now), but wrt your strategy of finding the townies. I don't think you can call Xiahou town just on these votes, since the process isn't there (N/A, lack data).

Man, I called Autolycus town based on him voting a likely scumbag with his 1 post 1 vote record before.

Xiahou's given me alignment-readable votes 2 phases in a row now. If those votes are correct he's not a scum. And his suspects look like scum.

Askthepizzaguy

10-10-2017, 01:05

Maybe it's just my inner me not believing we got it that easy.

Scums had a really bad day one, town did not. That's how I see things.

It's really bad when on day 2 you don't have a lot of folks you can accuse who are townies. That kills WIM.

Askthepizzaguy

10-10-2017, 01:07

As of right now the scum team isn't in bad shape if they pushed the hell out of Logic early.

That means you, Slaan.

And I'm comfortable with you for a long time. So I ain't going there.

Slaan

10-10-2017, 01:09

I know its not me but I know what you mean. Oh well, lets wait on GH and if he doesnt show guess thats a hammerin'

Zack

10-10-2017, 01:12

I need to eat dinner and some stuff

don't hammer gh i have something important to say

Askthepizzaguy

10-10-2017, 01:19

I see Csargo lit up.

Csargo, I know it was you. You did it in the Billiard Room with the wrench. You're here to confess your crimes, obviously.

Wearing socks with sandals. J'accuse.

Csargo

10-10-2017, 01:20

I see Csargo lit up.

Csargo, I know it was you. You did it in the Billiard Room with the wrench. You're here to confess your crimes, obviously.

Wearing socks with sandals. J'accuse.

I've done a lot of despicable things, but never socks with sandals, that's over the line!

Csargo

10-10-2017, 01:25

Okay real quick, because I'm tired of people misappropriating the "chaos" thing:

In Pokemon, when I did it for the first AND ONLY TIME as mafia, there was a specific reason I did it: Because the lynch was tied between Choxorn and Raith. Choxorn had been taking pressure all game and I figured he would be an easy mislynch anytime we needed one. Meanwhile, Raith's wagon came out of nowhere and seemingly for no reason that I could detect while skimming the thread at that highway rest stop. I acted; I went for the mislynch that I figured would be harder to get down the line.

Now, let's take a look at this game. Does that apply at all?

Logic was a dead man walking. Dead. He posted, what, once total, the last 48 hours of D1? If I was his partner, especially knowing he was the strongman, I would have cut my losses at some point and bussed him into oblivion. The dude wasn't doing anything and it would have been easy cred there for the taking. I kept my vote off Logic because I thought he was in his town meta, and moved it onto Choxorn.

With 30 minutes or however long to go in the round I knew Logic was dying no matter what, but when Dp made that post that was so incredibly hard for me to fathom him making considering his own past experience with CFDs I reacted.

There is literally no comparison to the two scenarios here, and I'm frankly a little insulted that you'd even think so.

Yeah, you really screwed me with that one GH. :soapbox:

Montmorency

10-10-2017, 01:28

I've done a lot of despicable things, but never socks with sandals, that's over the line!

I see Csargo lit up.

Csargo, I know it was you. You did it in the Billiard Room with the wrench. You're here to confess your crimes, obviously.

Wearing socks with sandals. J'accuse.

It's the world standard, don't deny.

Askthepizzaguy

10-10-2017, 01:30

https://media.giphy.com/media/115RU9MxToiduU/giphy.gif

Askthepizzaguy

10-10-2017, 01:34

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IauT8v4dfts

Askthepizzaguy

10-10-2017, 01:35

Lol Youtube.

Montmorency

10-10-2017, 01:47

Lol Youtube.

The comment:

Ashish Kumar
4 months ago
Ben Finegold xD

Zack

10-10-2017, 01:53

sigh, I just remembered this game had no investigative roles

i still think gh is a villager and was hoping my play here would make wolves think I'm a cop or something and I'd potentially soak up the nk

I'm an idiot, but I still don't want to vote him. If he's a wolf or something you can all laugh at me or whatever, but we've had too many similar thoughts/melds and interactions that make me feel good about him.

Zack

10-10-2017, 01:54

vote: choxorn

El Barto

10-10-2017, 01:55

I'm not sure what you're trying to say.
You'd prefer not to drop the hammer on GH, who's apparently engaged antispew mode. Why? What are your other lynches? Do you think that there is a real possibility he cannot be lynched today as he claims?

There are different definitions? I was referring to end the day early by having (currently) 8 votes on GH which would end it prematurely. Which other definition is there?
GH sometimes really likes to play in full pirate setup. Including the grog.

We're never even gonna get to Csargo and Barto.
:stare:

We have 8 town-controlled deaths. Remember I can vig people with my magical pointer finger of pew pew pew, despite my vanilla townie-ness.

*shifty eyes*
No, pointing your finger at the screen and shouting pew pew pew doesn't make the characters die unless you're one of the Space Goofs.

I need to eat dinner and some stuff

don't hammer gh i have something important to say
OK, we'll wait.

I don't get why so many people are acting like gh is outed
I hope you'll be clarifying on that. :)

Zack

10-10-2017, 01:57

GeneralHankerchief can you come in here and post a reads list

just give us as much as you can

El Barto

10-10-2017, 01:58

<GH>'s apparently engaged antispew mode.
QFT

Askthepizzaguy

10-10-2017, 02:15

Askthepizzaguy

10-10-2017, 02:22

:stare:

Because you're town and the game will be over by then.

I mean I have a town lean but you guys aren't lock or anything.

Dp101

10-10-2017, 03:41

Meh. Vote: Generalhankerchief

reinoe

10-10-2017, 03:53

Hi. Would you kindly clear yourself if you have the time, or at least, post enough that you become readable. Having half your posts this phase being either duplicates or apologising about duplicates is not the greatest of looks.
This is townie. Remember all that sass I gave DP near the start of D1? He's expressing the same eye-rolling frustration here with Choxorn. This "stop complaining and get to work" attitude.

But I have a problem...

Choxorn, Zack, and GH. It's the same paranoia Slaan was expressing earlier. They can't all be scum...because the game would be too easy.

Dp101

10-10-2017, 03:57

They can't all be scum...because the game would be too easy.

In my experience, sometimes, the game actually is that easy.

Csargo

10-10-2017, 05:01

So I guess that's it then? I was hoping he'd actually do something. Boring.

Dp101

10-10-2017, 05:05

So I guess that's it then? I was hoping he'd actually do something. Boring.

I guess so. Must be in full anti-spew mode.

Csargo

10-10-2017, 05:12

I guess so. Must be in full anti-spew mode.

:shrug:

Vote:GH

Csargo

10-10-2017, 05:15

You'd prefer not to drop the hammer on GH, who's apparently engaged antispew mode. Why? What are your other lynches? Do you think that there is a real possibility he cannot be lynched today as he claims?

GH sometimes really likes to play in full pirate setup. Including the grog.

:stare:

No, pointing your finger at the screen and shouting pew pew pew doesn't make the characters die unless you're one of the Space Goofs.

OK, we'll wait.

I hope you'll be clarifying on that. :)

I just didn't want him to be hammered without being given a chance to respond. Since he chose not to actually respond, I'm not terribly concerned about it. Choxorn/Manasi are decent choices. Maybe?

reinoe

10-10-2017, 05:37

:shrug:

Vote:GH

Vote: GeneralHandkerchief.

Let's end discussion.

reinoe

10-10-2017, 05:38

And the best part is not having to worry about whatever it was he was going to claim.

Sooh

10-10-2017, 06:06

THAT IS A HAMMER!

GH (8): Montmorency, El Barto, Xiahou, Kagemusha, Pizza, Dp101, Csargo, Reinoe,

Choxorn (1): Zack,

Not voting (6): Cuthillius, Slaan, Choxorn, GH, Fredwood, Manasi,

With 15 players there are 8 to hammer.

Sooh

10-10-2017, 06:11

On this, the day two of the tournament, the participants decided to play rapid chess. Quickly and efficiently they got rid of one of the contestants. I guess they wanted a good night's rest or something.

GH was Mato Jelic.

https://yt3.ggpht.com/-_7y8fYY7onE/AAAAAAAAAAI/AAAAAAAAAAA/begKjNkQF6M/s900-c-k-no-mo-rj-c0xffffff/photo.jpg

Known for your cheeky grin and countless facts about geography in addition to chess you were born in Croatia, but have since moved to Australia. Your youtube channel is littered with videos where you take your fans through the games of the great chess champions through the ages. Your youtube commentary has become a bit predictable though, and other youtube chess channels are gaining more and more attention.

Seeing as you are no longer the world's best chess commentator on youtube, you have joined ranks with three other individuals, and in your secret lair you plot for revenge on a chess world that's full of power struggles, drama and sore losers.

Night will end at
https://pending.me.uk/cd/bla_1507672800.png

IF all night actions are in by then. If not, night will be extended with 24 hours.

Kagemusha

10-10-2017, 06:15

:bow: Great job guys! Two down two to go.

Csargo

10-10-2017, 06:16

:boxedin:

Slaan

10-10-2017, 06:17

test test

Slaan

10-10-2017, 06:18

I love the foren-software here. Could post for like 5min for some super weird reason I still don't get but w/e.

Anyway, manasi next anyone?

Slaan

10-10-2017, 06:19

Also lol hammer, not that I'm complaining. Was hoping for some spew from GH at some point but it seems like he'd given up on this game a long time ago.

Slaan

10-10-2017, 06:21

Fred lock town now btw.

Dp101

10-10-2017, 06:23

Fred lock town now btw.

Yep, they just keep rolling in... Pretty sure this game is solved by this point.

Kagemusha

10-10-2017, 06:24

I would suggest next looking into Cuth. Not much to go through, draw paraller lines towards Logic and GH.

Fredwood

10-10-2017, 06:25

I wonder how many times I can not end up on scum lynches. Good job team back pats all around. Next we get to argue about Chox and Manasi, and whether we lynch Zack before or after Bart.

Slaan

10-10-2017, 06:32

I wonder how many times I can not end up on scum lynches. Good job team back pats all around. Next we get to argue about Chox and Manasi, and whether we lynch Zack before or after Bart.

You still have a useful skill. You pick Chox or Manasi and we'll just lynch the one you didnt pick for 100% scum chance :)

Slaan

10-10-2017, 06:33

Also anyone not having me lock town at this point should really really evaluate everything.

Fredwood

10-10-2017, 06:35

I would suggest next looking into Cuth. Not much to go through, draw paraller lines towards Logic and GH.

Or Cuth....

How many mafia are left? I still haven't figured out the numbers, my homesite I think there would be 4. Anyway I don't think there's two scum in Chox and Manasi, and I'm still holding my theory from N1 about GH making the DP CFD to try and ensure the Chox lynch on day 2. Alternatively if we think it's more likely that there are two scum in Zack, Bart and Cuth we can lynch there. I'm still of the view that Rein and Zack can't be teammates and at this point I'd lynch Zack over Rein, hence Zack's inclusion in the second group not Rein's.

Slaan

10-10-2017, 06:35

Just thinking back on Manasi... 99% mafia there and lolcatting when she said that GH wasnt mafia without giving any reason even when asked. Fits with her weird D1. Manasi should be next imo

Slaan

10-10-2017, 06:36

Or Cuth....

How many mafia are left? I still haven't figured out the numbers, my homesite I think there would be 4. Anyway I don't think there's two scum in Chox and Manasi, and I'm still holding my theory from N1 about GH making the DP CFD to try and ensure the Chox lynch on day 2. Alternatively if we think it's more likely that there are two scum in Zack, Bart and Cuth we can lynch there. I'm still of the view that Rein and Zack can't be teammates and at this point I'd lynch Zack over Rein, hence Zack's inclusion in the second group not Rein's.

There are 4 mafia... havent you read any of the flip flavors? Shame on you.

Fredwood

10-10-2017, 06:38

There are 4 mafia... havent you read any of the flip flavors? Shame on you.

I read but I barely register anything lol, I know it's a bad, but I have no idea who anybody is other then my guy, but only cus there was a documentary about him...Either way I think we lynch Manasi before Chox, and if Manasi is scum I don't feel Chox is scum.

Askthepizzaguy

10-10-2017, 06:40

If I die tonight, my wish is for Zack to be dead as well.

We'll have a nice long chat in DVC about how I was wrong about him and he was wrong about GH and we'll both laugh and laugh.

Askthepizzaguy

10-10-2017, 06:41

I read but I barely register anything lol, I know it's a bad, but I have no idea who anybody is other then my guy, but only cus there was a documentary about him...Either way I think we lynch Manasi before Chox, and if Manasi is scum I don't feel Chox is scum.
Next 2 after Zack.

Until you start hitting townies, and to be honest, you can hit 1 townie and keep on chugging away at the POE I came up with.

The scums are in there, the game is that easy until it isn't. Find out.

Montmorency

10-10-2017, 06:41

Fredwood

10-10-2017, 06:51

Next 2 after Zack.

Until you start hitting townies, and to be honest, you can hit 1 townie and keep on chugging away at the POE I came up with.

The scums are in there, the game is that easy until it isn't. Find out.

Meaning you want to lynch Zack next day phase? I think Manasi has a higher probability of scuminess then Zack and we don't have the problem of WiFOM. Also if we get the Manasi lynch it effectively solves the Chox problem for the time being. I get what you're saying about Zack but I don't see him, even with the strangeness, as more likely to be scum then the other two gentleman I listed him with.

Kagemusha

10-10-2017, 06:56

Askthepizzaguy

10-10-2017, 07:01

Getting back in the 'scum get rekt' days of domination, let's hope.

Next candidate:

*Zack is there for potential D1 spew and his weirdness today and wrt GH. Even if the latter could be interpreted (as I did) diminishing the likelihood of pairing, AORN there is not much reason to preserve Zack.

If he's town he's always getting mislynched now, so let's save him the trouble. I was willing to hear him out today and he didn't do anything but try to stop yet another mafia lynch, so. He's always next and I'm sorry but that's the way it's gotta be.

[]Choxorn and Manasi for mild scumminess and lack of engagement. However, low-info due to lack of connections.

Precisely why I wouldn't hit there next, but next after. I can somehow believe that this is Manasi somehow totally not giving a damn, but it also looks a lot like the whole scum team is dying, and they have no real urge to solo hero the rest of the game.

It's true until it's not true. Check and see.

*Manasi was worse than Chox today at least, being irrelevant and offering isolated support for GH.

Chox looks generic and kinda bad, but, he also could have legitimately been the townie they tried to lynch.

Thing is, I think it's about 50/50 that this is a Fleeing Coward / Banjo (iirc) situation, (or a reddboiler/vaimes) where there were two scummos up for the lynch, and what mafia was trying to do was switch the lynch from one preferred scummo to a different scummo, for credit and to shift the momentum away from town's control.

What I mean is, I've been in situations where it was supremely advantageous to scums that they derail a lynch on a scumbag and even push the lynch onto a different scumbag. Not even because other scumbag is just a goon, but because then they're the ones that get credit for the lynch, the townies who did good solving get NOTHING for their efforts, the other scumbag doesn't even get looked at for a good long time after that (if ever), and in both games I'm referencing, the scumbag that they switched the lynch off of survived to the end and it won the game.

Because to most townies, a goon is worth the same as any other goon, but it's not true. What matters is momentum and narrative.

You can lose 3 scumbags and still win this game with the last scumbag, but only if you're in fair control of the momentum and the narrative.

If the bad guys get lynched in the right order, it's easy to solve the game. You just move on to the next scummiest person one at a time, and there's no defense.

If the bad guys get lynched in the WRONG order, the scums control the momentum and the narrative.

This is what is happening this game, to a high degree of likelihood.

It's either that or choxorn is the townie they needed to stop the lynch on Logic.

But he can also easily be scum here, and only when they realized that bussing choxorn was less and less likely, and how scummy they looked defending Logic, they abandoned that plan and hoped for some GH inspired CFD chaos. With all due respect to his wolf game, he CFDs a lot as town and that's his meta.

It's "similar". A lot of good wolves think they can get away with similar even if it's scummy.

He can successfully say that he likes to cfd a lot as town, and that he only did it scummily that one time, and that's enough to fool some peoples.

But that's just gaming his own meta. He knows he should be able to get away with it, but here, the worst happened and he was called out on it by everyone, because it didn't work, and it was executed badly and scummily.

Worse, everything I'm saying about the narrative is coming true. They've totally lost all control of the game. Town is running laps around them now.

Xiahou is lock town at this point.

Fredwood is lock town at this point.

We just keep getting more and more people who can't be scum. So they couldn't bus GH here today either. One person maybe.

Zack/Manasi look the worst for obvious reasons.

This game is now a huge minefield of spew because as amazing as GH is, his posts are gonna leave some spew. I know his town game enough to know that dp push wasn't townie of him, and the game looked to be on easy mode as I'm re-reading.

A ton of you saw the same thing, that's the only reason why a hammer even happened here, that's usually terrible. But we can still talk, and that's looking like a huge pro-town advantage.

*Chox had even less to say D2; may have some spew in him wrt Zack, but it's debatable what it would mean

He's gotta be checked, he's just not urgent because he's consensus suspicious, and because my town is getting too big to ever lose the game.

*Barto is offering the most out of the lurkers, but almost all standard Barto fluff. I don't see why Pizza has more confidence in him than that.

Morale and humor. Barto doesn't feel like a dead man walking.

Cuth has some reasonable offerings and potential. I'll defer to Pizza on Xiahou, though in fact he has plenty of scope to develop. They shouldn't be up for consideration tomorrow.

Logic almost fully spewed Cuth. There's room for disagreement there and I'm sadface he didn't do anything this game, but late game lynch at the earliest.

Xiahou is almost lock town now as predicted. Zack flips town and Xiahou is locked up and you throw away the key on that.

You can also tell he's not trying to control the narrative. He just has his guess, like an elite Autolycus game.

Barto also felt at times like the low hanging fruit that some iffy people were pushing.

Use the time, folks, start from the beginning of day one and find reasons why people are townie. That's more important than finding the scums because I think they're cornered and the only way they can escape is if you break ranks and fall upon each other!

Askthepizzaguy

10-10-2017, 07:05

I would like to hear something productive from these people in order to get them out from the default lynch bucket: Cuth, Manasi, Choxorn and Xiahou. We need your input. What you find off so far from the game. Who do you suspect as scum? Help the town and also help the game, so it stays interesting.:yes:

Kage no, not Xiahou.

Play the odds, the odds in my estimation are very long there.

And look back to logic's posts where he mentions Cuth, I think Cuth's spewed. I know he hasn't done much but it's important not to forget why people are likely town.

Sort out who is likely scum from the list as a secondary objective. Find townies first.

I 100 percent concur it'd be nice if they said more things. But the scums are saying all the important things this game and what they're saying looks more and more like Cuth and Xiahou are town.

Reconsider that if our next lynches don't go well only. For me, my sexy friend.

Askthepizzaguy

10-10-2017, 07:07

Meaning you want to lynch Zack next day phase? I think Manasi has a higher probability of scuminess then Zack and we don't have the problem of WiFOM. Also if we get the Manasi lynch it effectively solves the Chox problem for the time being. I get what you're saying about Zack but I don't see him, even with the strangeness, as more likely to be scum then the other two gentleman I listed him with.

You have my explicit permission and endorsement to lynch Manasi d3.

Even if town, they're just providing cover for the scums with this game. They're not doing anything and they're seemingly deliberately wrong.

But if I die, my final wish is that Zack joins me ASAP. That's my epitaph. Never forget.

Fredwood

10-10-2017, 07:09

You still have a useful skill. You pick Chox or Manasi and we'll just lynch the one you didnt pick for 100% scum chance :)

Well, I was right on both of them (well I was going to vote for Logic, I wasn't fully confident), but I never got to vote fore either of them cus I'm scurred of hammers.

Kagemusha

10-10-2017, 07:09

Kage no, not Xiahou.

Play the odds, the odds in my estimation are very long there.

And look back to logic's posts where he mentions Cuth, I think Cuth's spewed. I know he hasn't done much but it's important not to forget why people are likely town.

Sort out who is likely scum from the list as a secondary objective. Find townies first.

I 100 percent concur it'd be nice if they said more things. But the scums are saying all the important things this game and what they're saying looks more and more like Cuth and Xiahou are town.

Reconsider that if our next lynches don't go well only. For me, my sexy friend.

I have something. I just want first to hear lots and lots of talk from some very silent people so far. Its not like im entitled to open up my whole process to scum team, at least yet..:curtain:

Fredwood

10-10-2017, 07:11

You have my explicit permission and endorsement to lynch Manasi d3.

Even if town, they're just providing cover for the scums with this game. They're not doing anything and they're seemingly deliberately wrong.

But if I die, my final wish is that Zack joins me ASAP. That's my epitaph. Never forget.

I just feel bad for Zack if the narrative is true that he is scum, he had so much WIM day 1 and just sort of naively walked into a minefield.

That's my problem, I'm too sensitive for mafia, yeah sensitive, that's why I'm so bad because I care TOO much.

Kagemusha

10-10-2017, 07:14

I just feel bad for Zack if the narrative is true that he is scum, he had so much WIM day 1 and just sort of naively walked into a minefield.

That's my problem, I'm too sensitive for mafia, yeah sensitive, that's why I'm so bad because I care TOO much.

Dont worry. Im big old softie as well. I did lot of self debate inside before starting to pursue GH. Just because i like him as much as i do, but i just could not get around how scummy he was.

Askthepizzaguy

10-10-2017, 07:14

I just feel bad for Zack if the narrative is true that he is scum, he had so much WIM day 1 and just sort of naively walked into a minefield.

That's my problem, I'm too sensitive for mafia, yeah sensitive, that's why I'm so bad because I care TOO much.

He already gave us permission to not care too much. He said he'd be looking forward to a video game and some other high intensity mafia game that's about to start.

He's gotta know by now he's always a mislynch and that he's just a distraction and his game is just off unless he's town and choxxy is not, and even then, choxxy is going to die if he flips town.

He'll be okay. If he is scum this game sucks for him, if he's town this game sucks for him and the sooner he exits it the better he'll feel about it.

If I'm in his shoes I say don't drag this out. I don't intend to.

Askthepizzaguy

10-10-2017, 07:16

This is ripping off a band-aid mode, do it quickly, it's nicer.

Fredwood

10-10-2017, 07:17

Dont worry. Im big old softie as well. I did lot of self debate inside before starting to pursue GH. Just because i like him as much as i do, but i just could not get around how scummy he was.

Yeah that was the biggest reason I didn't vote him day 1. Let's be real there's no way I'm lynching GH day 1 (even though he would...sniff)

Askthepizzaguy

10-10-2017, 07:18

I wish for a vig shot.

Please and thank you.

Askthepizzaguy

10-10-2017, 07:19

Less anti-spew, more pew pew pew.

Thanks in advance.

Fredwood

10-10-2017, 07:19

He already gave us permission to not care too much. He said he'd be looking forward to a video game and some other high intensity mafia game that's about to start.

He's gotta know by now he's always a mislynch and that he's just a distraction and his game is just off unless he's town and choxxy is not, and even then, choxxy is going to die if he flips town.

He'll be okay. If he is scum this game sucks for him, if he's town this game sucks for him and the sooner he exits it the better he'll feel about it.

If I'm in his shoes I say don't drag this out. I don't intend to.

I get it, I've been in games where even as town I'm like lynch me already.

Askthepizzaguy

10-10-2017, 07:20

Well, I was right on both of them (well I was going to vote for Logic, I wasn't fully confident), but I never got to vote fore either of them cus I'm scurred of hammers.

Unfortunately you're lock town anyway, amirite.

Fredwood

10-10-2017, 07:23

Unfortunately you're lock town anyway, amirite.

TBF missing EoD is part of my meta kek

Askthepizzaguy

10-10-2017, 07:31

Askthepizzaguy
Kagemusha
Dp101
Slaan
Fredwood <--- Lock today if not yesterday
Monty <--- Lock based on body of work this game
-----
reinoe <--- Lock on Zack scum flip, strong townie regardless
Xiahou <--- Should be lock now, but is definitely lock on Zack scum flip
------
Cuth <--- Remember how Logic needled him passive-aggressively.

That's nine townies and a win. It's only not a win if one of these is a wolf. Which one? Please look but don't vote anytime soon.

reinoe

10-10-2017, 07:36

Wanna lynch zack over chox purely for ego.

If zack is scum them my "zack isn't talking to logic" is the coolest read I've ever made.

I see people eyeing Manasi as possible scum but for her alignment I see "space cadet". I don't mean that in a negative way but just someone who is never going to be truly engaged.

Askthepizzaguy

10-10-2017, 07:38

I'd have been a little mad if GH did claim doc to self-pres and out the real doctor and people believed him, but he still dies eventually after claiming doc.

I just felt like putting the kibosh to any counterplay. No one that scummy should get to wriggle free on a claim. If that's a doc then we're down a doc, simple simple.

Askthepizzaguy

10-10-2017, 07:40

Wanna lynch zack over chox purely for ego.

If zack is scum them my "zack isn't talking to logic" is the coolest read I've ever made.

I think you're right. Remember when you said that and Zack did this: :inquisitive:

I'd like to give you that ego boost man. It clears you and I need clear townies for the circle to work.

If it doesn't, still protect Xiahou for me after I die. That's my baby right there.

I see people eyeing Manasi as possible scum but for her alignment I see "space cadet". I don't mean that in a negative way but just someone who is never going to be truly engaged.

Very possible, has to be checked, is permanently in the POE.

Askthepizzaguy

10-10-2017, 07:51

I said I'd park my vote on GH for his twice-attempted counterwaggon to save Logic and I'll keep to it.
vote: GeneralHankerchief

I guess Barto could be bussing? I don't think so. No one is even giving him credit for it since GH was so scummy.

This is just a vigilant townie here. Low hanging fruit that was considered for a push d1.

I'll give you due credit for helping town win, EB. Even if no one locks you for it, you're doing God's work.

Askthepizzaguy

10-10-2017, 08:00

Not that it makes any difference to you guys, but this is why I'm always gonna make Zack die tomorrow, in addition to everything else he's done.

Yes. It's not something I feel comfortable or is good play to reveal yet.

1. GH
4. Pizza
8. Zack
11. Slaan
17. Kagemusha

There are more people I don't think are close to being the best lynch choice, but not necessarily a "big huge mistake".

Click through and read this.

Who do you think it would be a huge mistake to lynch, he doesn't even clear the hurdle on this one, he trips over it he's so low.

He went to the start of the thread and got the player list and deleted a bunch of names from it, because he couldn't tell you off the top of his head who he thought looked townie.

Me, Slaan, and Kage are not revelations. Himself, plus GH.

GeneralHankerchief was his one nonconsensus townie.

I didn't say anything at the time, but all this list did was make me ready to lynch GH because Zack is really likely scum for this post over all the others.

Especially now that GH has flipped.

He's always gonna die but if he flips townie somehow, now you know why I was never letting him go.

Askthepizzaguy

10-10-2017, 08:02

Even if GH flipped town that post was NAGL. I mean you only know he's town in that universe if you are scum at that point.

Town Zack should have agreed he was a little iffy.

Askthepizzaguy

10-10-2017, 09:13

Here's where I'm at right now:

I think Zack and Dp are still town.

I'm not particularly interested in lynching Pizza today even though I don't really have a read on him.

I think Kage is displaying some pretty decent towntells so far (willingness to get into it with people early on and picking his spots as they come) but I'm not giving him a pass for the full game yet.

Of the two Dp pushers I talked about earlier, I like Reinoe more than Cuth because Reinoe's explanations are decent and more well thought out than Cuth's.

I'm a little bit wary of Slaan right now because he's acting a bit different than in other games I've played with him in/read of his, but I think it can be chalked up to adjusting to a new environment for now.

I think Fred could be a bit better so far.

Vote: Cuth

Yeah, with GH and Logic's behavior toward Cuth, Cuth is town.

:daisy: Nailed It.

Askthepizzaguy

10-10-2017, 09:19

Kage, follow me onto Cuth, his vote on Dp was bad.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_caU5EZcrn7w/TKAhQ32GPsI/AAAAAAAAAL4/DJ462F926bk/s1600/aladdin_do_you_trust_me.jpg

This one too.

GH is like me and knows better than to kill a teammate on D1.

Cuth's town, everyone.

Askthepizzaguy

10-10-2017, 09:24

Can we lynch pizza for all the chess references?Not before move 3.

I'll have 2 captured black pieces by then, and uh.... y'all won't be lynching me then. Plus I'll be captured by the black pieces.

:daisy: L O L

It's all coming true!

Askthepizzaguy

10-10-2017, 10:01

Csargo and choxorn's posts on D1 look a lot better now that these two flips have happened.

Csargo almost definitely town now, choxorn shouldn't be the d3 lynchee, always Manasi.

Askthepizzaguy

10-10-2017, 10:05

I shouted "incorrect" at a lot of people on D1 who are turning out to be way ahead of me on a lot of trufs.

Well played dp101, Csargo your list of scums was still too big but you found like 3 of them and went after the right ones, I think.

Choxorn also super committed to bussing if this is bussing. Can't shake the generic-ness and how it looks a lot like mutual bussing, but I'm still impressed. Maybe you're just a naturally scummy guy having a good town game.

Askthepizzaguy

10-10-2017, 10:09

Zack/Manasi

Lock it in.

Askthepizzaguy

10-10-2017, 10:12

I've been able to identify the reason why everyone else in the game is a townie. Even the scummy-looking people I would never dream of throwing a town lock around because how scummy they are.

Zack and Manasi are the only ones left without a single townpoint in their favor, having forfeited any they ever had or never had any to begin with in Manasi's case. Started at -4 and was never talked about and never did anything except scummy things.

Zack though, his early game was a phenomenon. He got me and I'm not even ashamed to admit it.

Askthepizzaguy

10-10-2017, 10:21

Lock
Askthepizzaguy
Kagemusha
Dp101
Slaan
Fredwood
Monty

Very very likely townie
reinoe
Xiahou
Cuthillius
Csargo

Scummy looking (kinda) but likely townie
choxorn
El Barto

Scum
Zack
Manasi

Zack edging Manasi due to the early game and WIM, despite everything else I can't deny that Manasi looks worse.

I found 10 townies I'd bet the game on. Every name is tiered to be preferred to survive over the name below it.

This is my legacy read.

Askthepizzaguy

10-10-2017, 10:31

I don't even think any of those leans are that controversial at this point.

Pretty sure we all solved this game and our only quibbles are exactly where people go in the POE and some folks just haven't had the time to do the work to lock in their fellow lock townies or don't have the same exact brainwave I do on why they're town, but they're gonna get there anyway because we all know where to go next so it doesn't matter.

Askthepizzaguy

10-10-2017, 10:40

I think the day one in this game was the single greatest day one of all time, if I am correct.

That's the only way this is even possible.

Half the townies were very townie, the ones that weren't super townie were correct, wolves all managed to arouse suspicion by someone, and wolves attempted to power wolf and it finally backfired, nuclear meltdown style.

This one's because town did it. You're all super stars.

Choxorn

10-10-2017, 10:43

Choxorn

10-10-2017, 10:50

I wish for a vig shot.

Please and thank you.

I like your thinking. A vig shot sure sounds good right about now. Well, as long as Zack gets to eat it.

Askthepizzaguy

10-10-2017, 11:10

I don't get how anyone's reading my interactions with Zack, Logic, and GH, and concluding that the 4 of us are a scumteam.

Pizza's right, it pretty much has to be Zack and Manasi for the last two scums.

GG.

I can even tell you my thinking.

"Someone's gotta be bussing".

During day 1, your posts also looked kind of generic, like these were all the right things to say but they were thin and not fleshed out. Like bussing for credit, something you will do on occasion.

But even at the time I was like yeah, but if he lynches all the woofs and never dies it's a problem.

But then I was like no it's not, you're choxorn and others pushed those cases, you have staying power. If anyone can bus it's you.

So I was like, he can possibly be scum still somehow, therefore he is scum.

Confirmation Bias.

Outside of that, you're having a hell of a game.

You're only not higher because my town is stacked and jacked, and wolves are wack and we found their pack.

Askthepizzaguy

10-10-2017, 11:14

I think Winston Hughes found literally every single wolf on day one.

Winston Hughes for MVP, I sucked compared to him.

Askthepizzaguy

10-10-2017, 11:15

^^ See above

Winston Hughes

You deserve to know, we now know that you knew. It is known.

Askthepizzaguy

10-10-2017, 11:16

Winston Hughes

Trying that again. Apparently a space breaks it. Look up, man.

If this doesn't work I give up.

Askthepizzaguy

10-10-2017, 11:25

Lock
Askthepizzaguy
Kagemusha
Dp101
Slaan
Fredwood
Monty
reinoe
Xiahou
Cuthillius
Csargo
choxorn
El Barto

Scum
Zack
Manasi

:daisy: it!

You get a blue! You get a blue! Every townie gets a blue!

Askthepizzaguy

10-10-2017, 11:26

SHOUTY CHESS GUY

RAAAAAAAAAWWWRRRRR

Askthepizzaguy

10-10-2017, 11:34

Golden Sweep = Old and Busted

Finegold-en Sweep = The New Hotness :2thumbsup:

Kagemusha

10-10-2017, 13:26

Good analyze Pizza. One thing i disagree with you is Manasi. I would replace her with Cuth. Why? Here is what i think.

Day one Cuth chitchatted with Logic, before anything really started. Its lazy for scum but easy. He got a vote from GH during day 1, which could very well be GH distancing himself from Cuth. Why? Because when GH invited me to go after Cuth, GH did nothing to pursue his case, so to me it seems like a distraction from my suspicion of Logic. Not a real case against Cuth. Nor there was a serious effort of turning Cuth vote into counterwagon. Second when i laid out my suspicion towards Cuth. He simply hid from me and did not reply. During and After Night 1 GH came under scrutiny, but for some strange reason Cuth did not have anything to do with it, which seems strange for a town player, nor did he vote either days.

Conclusion: Either Cuth is scum with a very weak game demoralized from the killer start of the town. Or Cuth is simply not interested and inactive. My paranoia says the first option, but this is the point when i can be wrong, because i have so little to work with. Therefore i encourage others to look at Cuth.

If others dont agree with me and want to lynch from Manasi and Zack duo. I encourage to lynch Zack, as from Manasi lynch we get zero information other then her flip. Tomorrow most info we can get is from Zack lynch, while it is also dangerous because how much it can distract us from other avenues.

Last before i get wacked. There is still a workday of time for us before the night ends. We should use it, because the coming day is very important and we should not stray and loose momentum with the start we have.