Mass Effect 17er [Game Thread]

[Arapocalypse]

I did not realize Maple already had 2 votes on him already, I thought I was being unique!!!!! :shame:

Thanks Ephemeral for the thoughts on Hally; that's mostly what I thought it was, was mostly just wondering if I'd missed anything for them being at the tom!!

Wow, is the solving bar for me really that low, GH? :P

The dyachei push feels boring with them having left so early and actually having a traditional sleeping schedule!!!

I do not have rocks in my brain, more like... lava!!!!!! Hot, bubbling lava!!!!! That being said, Amy's entrance to the thread seems... okay? #letSunbaehavetownreads2k21!!!!! (Yes I have acknowledged that I'm being pocketed regardless of his alignment, no I don't care right now because it is warm and cozy in here, and it's -93 outside!!!)

Visor is, hmm...

pzelda is Capage? I'm shrug about him but may dig up my Capage metaread as that was halfway decent; I don't really get why people are townreading him? Feels sort of overdefensive in a few places that is sort of ???

Liking generally Hally's flow of stuff, Ephemeral has been okay!!!!

GH/Bop are [redacted]!!! I've been staring at #449 for a few minutes now though and I feel like I should have thoughts on this, but just don't? Weird things; think I'm leaning towards not liking it, but Hally's post was good!!

What on earth am I missing on Capage!!!!!!!!!!! Someone here is the problem, and I feel like it's me!!!!

[ColonelLubriderm]

here is what my list would look like in a quantum snapshot:

VV
hally
dolby

V
hally
dolby
sunbae
cuth
visor
gh
ephemeral

?
sunbae
cuth
visor
gh
ephemeral
pzelda
maple
arapocalypse
esooa
dyachei
ampharos
csargo
montmorency
manasi

W
pzelda
maple
manasi
montmorency
csargo
dyachei
arapocalypse
ampharos

[Ampharos]

the townread on visor was primarily because i think he was wolfreading me for a not entirely absurd reason, and that i thought he was treating this read with about exactly the level of casualness that i expected out of a visorslash read on the first night of the game

I'm a little surprised that the steamed hams exchange was the end of it but i DID go to bed right after that so shrug

[Arapocalypse]

I do think that he played up the "high expectations" a ton, while he absolutely does have a Reputation it was more a defense against "we know we're not going to survive that long so let's try to dunk on as many villagers as we can first and oh damn people are catching on". So while there's a grain of truth in there, I don't think that the specifics of this read hold up entirely? That said it is somewhat more aggressive than I'd expect, though I could see that coming from either side, so shrug.
Yeah no, I realized that it was being overplayed a bit, which is usually the case in team mafia anyway; I was moreso referring to that pile-on him that happened at SoD 2!!!!!

(Which I still find to be overly !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

Anyways I have to actually ISO him now because I got half of his/Bop's posts mixed up and now I have no idea!!!!

[Ampharos]

vote: Ampharos

spitroast me if you dare, bird boy

[ColonelLubriderm]

Yeah no, I realized that it was being overplayed a bit, which is usually the case in team mafia anyway; I was moreso referring to that pile-on him that happened at SoD 2!!!!!

(Which I still find to be overly !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

Anyways I have to actually ISO him now because I got half of his/Bop's posts mixed up and now I have no idea!!!!

mine are the towny ones

[GeneralHankerchief]

re: Capage/pzelda reads:

The last two specific games I was in with him, he was mafia in both:
- Generic Fantasy Mafia (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/153989-04-12-Generic-Fantasy-WW-Game-Thread) (as pzelda, December 2019, the .Org)
- Red John Mafia (https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/28115-Red-John-mafia) (as Capage (I was hypnotoad), September 2020, CFC section of MU)

Note that I haven't iso'd him in those games myself today, but from memory his posting here is noticeably better than in the two I linked where I feel pretty good about him.

[Sunbae]

Oh, that's two lists in a row with pZelda down pretty low so let me try and vibe check this one:

I think pZelda has been thinking about the game in a way that makes it extremely likely to be town. Their comments are not just talking the surface level of whats being said but rather are using what's being said, critically thinking about them, and applying them to different situations in a way that scum just rarely do. My largest example is this one:

Dya made this post:


i'm not sure. I wish I could stay up late like other people but I can't

I feel like i missed so much threadflow overnight and the only one consistently posting through the day is GH

i thought sunbae was a little weird

and pZelda responded with this:


This isn't really a post abou Dya, but them mentioning the word flow got me thinking about GH's read on Eph. The thing is that Eph's posts feel good enough for me to put him in town, but there's also GH's case, which is fairly compelling. And flow is what possibly makes Eph scum. He's only reacting to the flow, asking questions and such and I haven't seen any conclusions or independent solving from him. He's active but I lack posts, in which he would go back and evaluate players. That kinda removes him from my town.

I think the way they read dya's post, see her talking about threadflow, and then take off in a different direction with the threadflow concept to talk about two entirely different people and adjust reads is a progression that scum rarely do. It requires a player to actually to be thinking about the game and how different threads connect which I've found town to be doing way more often whereas scum will be keeping the responses more narrowly focused on the people making the comment to who the people making the comment are discussing.


Secondly, I think pZelda has also show fluidity in their reads. In the already given example they are using the threadflow dya mentioned to understand GH's case better and remove Ephemeral from the towncore after putting him there earlier. There are other examples like how they went from "don't like sunbae's post about being out of the wolf rage" into liking me for my dya vote.

Anyways, I feel rather good about this one but see that others have pZelda lower so seems like a good spot to discuss it.

[Arapocalypse]

Vote: pzelda

Does anyone want to talk about why they townread this guy please?! There are about fifty zillion townreads of him in the thread and I seem to be missing the memo, as usual!!

He has given takes on things and such, that I don't find overly towny necessarily; felt a bit more like he was more !!!!!!!!!! about the stuff on him versus reads and things in a way that felt overly self-conscious in a way that I didn't like!!!!

[Ampharos]

mine are the towny ones

tbh this is a very odd officers' academy you've all graduated from

[Ampharos]

the above xposts about pzelda are extremely amusing to me

[Arapocalypse]

I forgot to finish my thoughts on Visor; I also don't really get why there are light townreads on him? He has done lightly towny things that are standard town things but do not feel out of range for him!!!! Also I get the sense that he's trying to pocket me/the thread through his posts, but not in the cozy way like Sunbae is!!!!!!

[Sunbae]

the above xposts about pzelda are extremely amusing to me

they're good xposts bront

[ColonelLubriderm]

my ampharos thoughts:

Warning people to not villa read sunbae easily is probably not something !Wampharos does if concerned that !Vsunbae is getting townread. I believe that !Vsunbae, even on a new site is not going to be a miselimination du jour so warnign people to be careful is probably not wolf indicative.

I believed the above until Sunbae said that this is different to how she treated him in a previous game as village so now I am concerned that Ampharos could be warning people to becareful because she thinks that she would do that as a villager. Still huge margin for her being just a villa sayign this as a villa and just having a different reaction for any amount of reasons.

Concern level: mild

[Arapocalypse]

Oh, that's two lists in a row with pZelda down pretty low so let me try and vibe check this one:

I think pZelda has been thinking about the game in a way that makes it extremely likely to be town. Their comments are not just talking the surface level of whats being said but rather are using what's being said, critically thinking about them, and applying them to different situations in a way that scum just rarely do. My largest example is this one:

Dya made this post:



and pZelda responded with this:



I think the way they read dya's post, see her talking about threadflow, and then take off in a different direction with the threadflow concept to talk about two entirely different people and adjust reads is a progression that scum rarely do. It requires a player to actually to be thinking about the game and how different threads connect which I've found town to be doing way more often whereas scum will be keeping the responses more narrowly focused on the people making the comment to who the people making the comment are discussing.


Secondly, I think pZelda has also show fluidity in their reads. In the already given example they are using the threadflow dya mentioned to understand GH's case better and remove Ephemeral from the towncore after putting him there earlier. There are other examples like how they went from "don't like sunbae's post about being out of the wolf rage" into liking me for my dya vote.

Anyways, I feel rather good about this one but see that others have pZelda lower so seems like a good spot to discuss it.
pZelda thoughts hype!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That... is actually a decent post? The bolded is solid and quite hype, at least!!!!!

...Yeah, I don't really have anything besides that; I'll pull up some posts that I was ??? at, maybe!!!

[Ampharos]

sunbae the reason for the difference between my early behavior towards you in rocks (largely ignoring you until later on) vs. here (actively expressing paranoia) is because it feels like you've gotten significantly more early townreads here than in rocks

in rocks people were in general pretty willing to wait before casting judgement on your alignment; here people are saying you've done towny things already. from where i'm sitting your contributions across the two games don't seem all that different and the discrepancy in thread reaction makes me nervous. something something anni flashbacks

[Arapocalypse]

mine are the towny ones
But what if none of them were towny posts!!!!!

Boom!!!

Bye!!!!

SCUM!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ampharos]

my ampharos thoughts:

Warning people to not villa read sunbae easily is probably not something !Wampharos does if concerned that !Vsunbae is getting townread. I believe that !Vsunbae, even on a new site is not going to be a miselimination du jour so warnign people to be careful is probably not wolf indicative.

I believed the above until Sunbae said that this is different to how she treated him in a previous game as village so now I am concerned that Ampharos could be warning people to becareful because she thinks that she would do that as a villager. Still huge margin for her being just a villa sayign this as a villa and just having a different reaction for any amount of reasons.

Concern level: mild

well dang we all out here xposting today

[ColonelLubriderm]

I have pzelda low solely because of them attributing sometheing to visor(IIRC about laying low early on) which is something i just don't think ever actually crosses visor's mind in practice so i was concerned it was a fabricated read. But I don't hate where they are currently pushing or the results of other reads so i'm not gonna harp on it too much other than this.

[Ampharos]

i do like that sunbae=>pzelda post tho

[Arapocalypse]

I'm actually not doing that because I don't feel like multiquoting; maybe he's just threadspewed town and this is easy!!

Vote: Visor

[ColonelLubriderm]

I have pzelda low solely because of them attributing sometheing to visor(IIRC about laying low early on) which is something i just don't think ever actually crosses visor's mind in practice so i was concerned it was a fabricated read. But I don't hate where they are currently pushing or the results of other reads so i'm not gonna harp on it too much other than this.

I would also like to add the caveat that Low is pretty much equivalent to a null read

[Arapocalypse]

sunbae the reason for the difference between my early behavior towards you in rocks (largely ignoring you until later on) vs. here (actively expressing paranoia) is because it feels like you've gotten significantly more early townreads here than in rocks

in rocks people were in general pretty willing to wait before casting judgement on your alignment; here people are saying you've done towny things already. from where i'm sitting your contributions across the two games don't seem all that different and the discrepancy in thread reaction makes me nervous. something something anni flashbacks
What are your own thoughts on his alignment, regardless of how other people are reading/treating him?

Also, hi Amy!!!!

[Ampharos]

I have pzelda low solely because of them attributing sometheing to visor(IIRC about laying low early on) which is something i just don't think ever actually crosses visor's mind in practice so i was concerned it was a fabricated read. But I don't hate where they are currently pushing or the results of other reads so i'm not gonna harp on it too much other than this.

i can see someone coming away with that impression of visor depending on their definition of "laying low"

visor doesn't come out the gate playing villa captain, tossing reads around all over the place, writing GH level paragraphs, etc etc

but he IS around and he IS active and he IS reading the game and he IS making posts, which i suspect is where the disconnect is

[ColonelLubriderm]

well dang we all out here xposting today

24389

[GeneralHankerchief]

mine are the towny ones

The Second Punic War is everybody's favorite of the three. It's mine too - after all, it's basically the WWII of the classical era, what with blood oaths sworn during adolescence, the war primarily being fought to avenge the perceived wrongs of the previous war, cults of personality being built around certain generals and figures (not just Hannibal either!), fun little conflicts in side theaters happening, the Romans taking Soviet Russia levels of punishment casualty-wise to beat back the hated invader, questionable movement of men on a mass scale across historically unforgiving terrain during a period of the year that is not friendly to such movement anyway, a dramatic amphibious landing or two, and one or two recorded instances of human sacrifice. Fun for the whole family! But the First Punic War really needs its due and I felt like it was time to share some love with the Second's overlooked brother. Read any basic introductory history of the Wars (or browse its wiki articles) and you'll see that it's full of both sides just totally screwing up over and over again. It's like, the Romans build a fleet (something which they had little experience doing before this), send it to invade, but the fleet gets caught in a bad storm on the way and tens of thousands of people die. So they build another fleet, send it to invade, but the Carthaginians actually know what they're doing and kick their butts, and tens of thousands of people die again. So they build a third fleet, send it to invade, but the fleet gets caught in another bad storm and tens of thousands of people die. Then the Carthaginians lose a fleet of their own for some reason or another, it might even be because the Romans finally beat them here, and they lose tens of thousands of people. Finally the Romans get some good tech, apply the corvus to their quinquiremes, and invent the concept of marines, and they're on their way. All of this happens with a serious amount of guerilla fighting in Sicily, and when they finally call time on the war, not that much land actually changes hands and everybody's left to wonder if it was really worth it. Meanwhile, you have Carthage having to deal with a mercenary revolt in the aftermath because they literally can't get paid, and Rome realizing that their little city-state form of government might not be equipped to deal with major regional wars, which surely won't bite them in the rear end down the line. I hope that the oppressed minority in Syracuse, the reason why this war got started in the first place, thought it was all worth it. Anyway, the First Punic War is underrated and just kind of funny to think about if you're able to compartmentalize mass death on a large scale largely due to people not knowing how to boat.

[Arapocalypse]

here is what my list would look like in a quantum snapshot:

VV
hally
dolby

V
hally
dolby
sunbae
cuth
visor
gh
ephemeral

?
sunbae
cuth
visor
gh
ephemeral
pzelda
maple
arapocalypse
esooa
dyachei
ampharos
csargo
montmorency
manasi

W
pzelda
maple
manasi
montmorency
csargo
dyachei
arapocalypse
ampharos
Read through this a few times and I'm still confused... how does this work? What do you mean by a quantum snapshot?

Or was this not a serious post? It reads like one, but I have no idea!!!

[Ampharos]

What are your own thoughts on his alignment, regardless of how other people are reading/treating him?

Also, hi Amy!!!!

i like the "here's a bunch of self-centered reads" post and i like the pzelda post; beyond that there's not rly anything in his iso that i don't think he could do as both alignments. which isn't to say i think the aforementioned reads are unfakeable but i think they're indicative of the mindset that i think v!sunbae would be in here

call it the sliiiiightest of v leans

[ColonelLubriderm]

Read through this a few times and I'm still confused... how does this work? What do you mean by a quantum snapshot?

Or was this not a serious post? It reads like one, but I have no idea!!!

It means that less than halfway through day 1 that 90% of my reads are highly fluid, that one moment soeone i have concerns or no read on i could read something that makes me lean them completely different and the idea of a "quantum snapshot" is that my leans/reads can change so fast it looks as if people are in multiple spots on the same list.

is what i was trying to get across. It's both serious and tongue-in-cheek at the same time

[Sunbae]

sunbae the reason for the difference between my early behavior towards you in rocks (largely ignoring you until later on) vs. here (actively expressing paranoia) is because it feels like you've gotten significantly more early townreads here than in rocks

in rocks people were in general pretty willing to wait before casting judgement on your alignment; here people are saying you've done towny things already. from where i'm sitting your contributions across the two games don't seem all that different and the discrepancy in thread reaction makes me nervous. something something anni flashbacks

That makes sense, thanks.

There's a whole philosophical thing I kinda wanna get into that I touched on in the last game surrounding the difference in the way people interact with players based on whether the most recent game that play was in was as villa or wolf. I probably won't though because it's more of a long topic for a dvc or something. I guess I'll just say that I think after two weeks of seeing me post as town I'm hoping it's just easier to see the similarities. I understand that your take is "you aren't posting that different from last time so why is the thread perception so different on you from people that were in both games" but hopefully you can get around to "you aren't posting that different from last time so you're probably just town again" soon.

[Arapocalypse]

i like the "here's a bunch of self-centered reads" post and i like the pzelda post; beyond that there's not rly anything in his iso that i don't think he could do as both alignments. which isn't to say i think the aforementioned reads are unfakeable but i think they're indicative of the mindset that i think v!sunbae would be in here

call it the sliiiiightest of v leans
Hmm, interesting!!!!

Yeah the P#492 post (assuming you mean that one) seemed fairly towny to me as well, in more than the usual sense where it felt quite similar mindset-wise as to how Sunbae was explaining his town!approach to mafia in his most recent mentor thread... similar elements stuff!!!

Something something pocket hype time!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ColonelLubriderm]

and now i return to money heist

[Visor]

ok i read a couple posts this morning and i just want to say

i 98% think amy is a wolf and my vote there is entirely serious, i just wanted to finish the refernece

i will dumpster amy later (and it annoys me that ppl who are not me are gonna get credit because i went to bed lol :P)

[Arapocalypse]

It means that less than halfway through day 1 that 90% of my reads are highly fluid, that one moment soeone i have concerns or no read on i could read something that makes me lean them completely different and the idea of a "quantum snapshot" is that my leans/reads can change so fast it looks as if people are in multiple spots on the same list.

is what i was trying to get across. It's both serious and tongue-in-cheek at the same time
Ohhhhhh I think I see what you mean, as in all the various different pings that people have given you/they've leaned?

That actually seems like a really fun idea, I might try that later!!!!!

[Visor]

oh and i wasnt calling amy a villager, i was saying they read me correctly

amy is a wolf

[Arapocalypse]

I feel like townleaning Bop for that is really silly, but also I've liked some of his earlier posts in here-ish, and... that's very highkey something I would never ever have thought of to fake reads as mafia, too busy doing other stuff handling the thread!!!!!!!

Something something reads specificity!!!!!

[GeneralHankerchief]

Vote: Ampharos

I dig.

[Arapocalypse]

ok i read a couple posts this morning and i just want to say

i 98% think amy is a wolf and my vote there is entirely serious, i just wanted to finish the refernece

i will dumpster amy later (and it annoys me that ppl who are not me are gonna get credit because i went to bed lol :P)
Exciting!!!!!

Is it later yet?

[Arapocalypse]

Vote: Ampharos

I dig.
Why?

[Arapocalypse]

Why were you focusing so much on the Dolby/Esooa interaction stuff this morning anyway, GH? Feels like most of your early posts were about that, though also, ISO bias!!!

*grumble grumble ISO grumble grumble*

[GeneralHankerchief]

Why were you focusing so much on the Dolby/Esooa interaction stuff this morning anyway, GH? Feels like most of your early posts were about that, though also, ISO bias!!!

*grumble grumble ISO grumble grumble*

I don't really think I talked about Dolby/Esooa that much this morning (US time)? Last night, on gamestart, sure, but not this morning. As for why I focused on them last night, well, they... stuck out to me?

As for why I'm voting Amy: why not?

[Ampharos]

I don't really think I talked about Dolby/Esooa that much this morning (US time)? Last night, on gamestart, sure, but not this morning. As for why I focused on them last night, well, they... stuck out to me?

As for why I'm voting Amy: why not?

cause it's pretty WeirdChamp of you, bro

[GeneralHankerchief]

cause it's pretty WeirdChamp of you, bro

Not really if you've read my posts today.

[Ampharos]

Not really if you've read my posts today.

voting me is inherently WeirdChamp, i thought that went without saying

[Csargo]

oh and i wasnt calling amy a villager, i was saying they read me correctly

amy is a wolf

:bow:

[Cuthillius]

That makes sense, thanks.

There's a whole philosophical thing I kinda wanna get into that I touched on in the last game surrounding the difference in the way people interact with players based on whether the most recent game that play was in was as villa or wolf. I probably won't though because it's more of a long topic for a dvc or something. I guess I'll just say that I think after two weeks of seeing me post as town I'm hoping it's just easier to see the similarities. I understand that your take is "you aren't posting that different from last time so why is the thread perception so different on you from people that were in both games" but hopefully you can get around to "you aren't posting that different from last time so you're probably just town again" soon.

I'd be curious to hear your thoughts from this angle on GH specifically.

[Arapocalypse]

This GH read is rough, a few points to it!!

Reading his posts, it feels like he's posting through a thick fog of war? Just getting the sense that his thoughts/reads are sort of murky, but in a foggy way and not like you're looking through water; also not ruling out that we're just seeing him through a Foe-Glass or something!!! More specifically, the focus feels sort of weird? I'm townreading the memes more than the content posts, and memes are much easier to just call town because of their hype!!!!! Feels like a surprising amount of repeititiveness in general, regarding Dolby/Ephemeral for instance!!

Capage read stuff feels like the towniest stuff that he's actually said overall, who I'm still leaning towards being just thread-spewed town that GH has contributed to!!!

[Csargo]

Vote: Csargo

I think some of their posting has been a bit awkward in its construction.



Is the most notable example. The "i just remember thing from what I remember" section reads to me like they were looking to add a qualifier and ended up getting turned around and added it twice.

I also thought the repetitive usage of the word "weird" as a qualifier a few times in a short span about GH's postings was, well, weird in a "wanted to shade the person getting a bit of heat without actually calling them out hard" way.

This read is thin, I know.

Yeah, that's basically me, awkward. I'm basically not holding anything back and reassessing as I'm posting, so it ends up being odd a lot of the time.

[Arapocalypse]

I don't really think I talked about Dolby/Esooa that much this morning (US time)? Last night, on gamestart, sure, but not this morning. As for why I focused on them last night, well, they... stuck out to me?

As for why I'm voting Amy: why not?
Sorry, I meant this morning game-wise at SoD1, not this 24-hour day's morning!!!

Okay, just... feels weird, not entirely sure why!!

You could say why not about anyone!!!! Is it because of Visor or do you have an individual read there, or both or neither?

[GeneralHankerchief]

This GH read is rough, a few points to it!!

Reading his posts, it feels like he's posting through a thick fog of war? Just getting the sense that his thoughts/reads are sort of murky, but in a foggy way and not like you're looking through water; also not ruling out that we're just seeing him through a Foe-Glass or something!!! More specifically, the focus feels sort of weird? I'm townreading the memes more than the content posts, and memes are much easier to just call town because of their hype!!!!! Feels like a surprising amount of repeititiveness in general, regarding Dolby/Ephemeral for instance!!

Capage read stuff feels like the towniest stuff that he's actually said overall, who I'm still leaning towards being just thread-spewed town that GH has contributed to!!!

Point of order, I've repeated myself on Dolby/Esooa because multiple people have asked me to elaborate across various points of the dayphase, but neither Dolby nor Esooa has posted all that much since SOD last night, so I mostly just ended up... repeating myself.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Sorry, I meant this morning game-wise at SoD1, not this 24-hour day's morning!!!

Okay, just... feels weird, not entirely sure why!!

You could say why not about anyone!!!! Is it because of Visor or do you have an individual read there, or both or neither?

I mentioned more than once that I didn't feel all that good about Amy's and Visor's interaction, specifically regarding the bit around Steamed Hams, and I liked how Visor came in hot/the way he did and thought it was pretty townie of him to do so in that exact way. I don't really have a specific read on Amy beyond me not liking that interaction, but my general thought upon moving my vote to Amy was "sure, we can roll with this".

[Arapocalypse]

There was another one?

Fair enough I guess.Vote: Csargo

[Ampharos]

I mentioned more than once that I didn't feel all that good about Amy's and Visor's interaction, specifically regarding the bit around Steamed Hams, and I liked how Visor came in hot/the way he did and thought it was pretty townie of him to do so in that exact way. I don't really have a specific read on Amy beyond me not liking that interaction, but my general thought upon moving my vote to Amy was "sure, we can roll with this".

what did you dislike about my part of steamed hams?

[Visor]

what did you dislike about my part of steamed hams?

the fact that they are obviously grilled

[Arapocalypse]

Yeah, that's basically me, awkward. I'm basically not holding anything back and reassessing as I'm posting, so it ends up being odd a lot of the time.
Hi Csargo!!!!!

Where are you at in the game, in that case? I've seen a whole bunch of posts in your ISO but it feels like you're either holding back a lot or don't have stuff to hold back, would be interested in talking about where you're at!!!

[GeneralHankerchief]

what did you dislike about my part of steamed hams?

The initial part that Visor questioned. I thought it was way too soon to slap a townread on him, and (granted this is later on) I don't know how I feel about your response.

Also the lights just flickered in my office and I think there's a reasonable chance something explodes soon so I'm probably done here until I get home.

[Arapocalypse]

I mentioned more than once that I didn't feel all that good about Amy's and Visor's interaction, specifically regarding the bit around Steamed Hams, and I liked how Visor came in hot/the way he did and thought it was pretty townie of him to do so in that exact way. I don't really have a specific read on Amy beyond me not liking that interaction, but my general thought upon moving my vote to Amy was "sure, we can roll with this".
Ah, okay; was wondering whether there was more stuff beyond that interaction!!!

Not really hyping about that in particular; I somewhat liked the thing about not wanting to immediately townread Hally/Ephemeral initially and then immediately doing it (mitigating factors for that though), but otherwise felt shrug!!

[Arapocalypse]

Oof, stay safe GH!!!!!

Any thoughts about the !!!!!!!! on you so far, Amy?

[Zack]

Official Tally as of #558

4 Ampharos (Visor, Hally, Cuthillius, GeneralHankerchief)

2 Montmorency (ColonelLubriderm, pzelda)
2 Csargo (Sunbae, Arapocalypse)

1 Maple (Ephemeral)
1 GeneralHankerchief (Csargo)
1 Hally (Montmorency)
1 Cuthillius (Maple)

Not Voting: Ampharos, Dolby, dyachei, Esooa, Manasi

thunderously calm

[Zack]

Pretty sure that's correct, PM / DM me if you find any errors.

https://i.imgur.com/ZdlaZSP.gif

[Arapocalypse]

First of all, I'm leaning Montmorency to be... not quite towny, but TWTBAW; feels like he's just been doing his own thing/sliding comfortably into the thread/that sort of casualness where he's not overly self-aware of his posts!!! Which also involves his later posts where he doesn't really talk about reads on people in and of themselves, that I sort of think is a little overly suspicious-looking that mafia would be aware of and refrain from doing, to at least sneak some sort of read in it... it's not even hedging, for one!!!!

Second of all, I missed the live-action Powerpuff girls link in his post earlier, and that looks like it'll be an utter disaster; they're going to try and capitalize on recent superhero hype to force it dark and "edgy" and bluh!!!!!! Why DC!!!!!!!

[Arapocalypse]

Also, Cuth can be towny!!!!

[Sunbae]

I got my box of Kaldheim in finally. Alt Border Valki, Extended border Kaya, Regular Vorinclex, foil Tyvar, and Foil Alt border Toralf being the big hits. The list cards all sucked sadly.

Not a bad box though!

[Sunbae]

I'd be curious to hear your thoughts from this angle on GH specifically.

I mentioned it earlier but I think the way he has basically not engaged with me at all is different than the way he handled me as a wolf last game. He spent quite a few posts and walls trying to explain himself to me whereas this game he's basically just done his own thing and ignored me. I've found it villagery but it's low on the "holds up for a long while" or "more important than how he solves others" scales.

[Csargo]

Hi Csargo!!!!!

Where are you at in the game, in that case? I've seen a whole bunch of posts in your ISO but it feels like you're either holding back a lot or don't have stuff to hold back, would be interested in talking about where you're at!!!

I don't really have strong thoughts on very many people. I think Visor/Dolby are performing below my expectations of them, judging by past experience. They're usually more obviously town, pretty quickly, so I think they're underwhelming at present.

I'm thinking that pzelda is probably town, because the thoughts and how he's processing people are eerily similar to last game.

I think Esooa, GH, Hally, you, and Cuth are okay.

The rest I don't have particularly strong thoughts either way on.

[Sunbae]

My town core is Zelda, Ara, and Colonel i think

[pzelda]

What on earth am I missing on Capage!!!!!!!!!!! Someone here is the problem, and I feel like it's me!!!!

I think you haven't seen me scum in a while. But let's talk about you. You are usually quite difficult to read early on, but I'm getting a good vibe from this one post (earlier posts were either forgettable or slightly scary as that comic strip reminded me of w!GH in champs, but I guess you just couldn't resist a good joke). Here you react to previous activity and ask questions, if you further develop your reads based on answers I think it's a good look!!! That said, some parts feel over the roof hype, almost cryptic. I don't love it, but I don't think it's wolfy.

I don't think you are in danger of getting my vote today, but It's also too early to let you in my town. And i think that's a fair read.

[Sunbae]

the xposts today are :jawdrop:

[Visor]

I don't really have strong thoughts on very many people. I think Visor/Dolby are performing below my expectations of them, judging by past experience. They're usually more obviously town, pretty quickly, so I think they're underwhelming at present.

I'm thinking that pzelda is probably town, because the thoughts and how he's processing people are eerily similar to last game.

I think Esooa, GH, Hally, you, and Cuth are okay.

The rest I don't have particularly strong thoughts either way on.

i didnt know my parents were playing this game

[Cuthillius]

Ara, your definition of "TWTBAW" seems... gauged on a much more sensitive scale than usual, so I'm not sure what to do with those reads? Like, usually I'm used to people applying that read to people who are doing things that just splash into the thread in a very wolfy way, but you seem to be saying "these things are slightly >rand w and I don't think this person would do that many slightly >rand w things so they're probably town". Does that make sense?

Also, why am I a villager?

[Cuthillius]

Visor, where's your head at on our good colonel?

[pzelda]

my ampharos thoughts:

Warning people to not villa read sunbae easily is probably not something !Wampharos does if concerned that !Vsunbae is getting townread. I believe that !Vsunbae, even on a new site is not going to be a miselimination du jour so warnign people to be careful is probably not wolf indicative.

I believed the above until Sunbae said that this is different to how she treated him in a previous game as village so now I am concerned that Ampharos could be warning people to becareful because she thinks that she would do that as a villager. Still huge margin for her being just a villa sayign this as a villa and just having a different reaction for any amount of reasons.

Concern level: mild

That's a good point about Sunbae and possibly about Amy. I might be stretching it here, but even keeping Sunbae in discussion might be enough sometimes. Like it's easy to just call strong town players towns and don't care about them, but it also narrows discussion. If you can bring them up from time to time, it makes it easier to fake solve. Also, Sunbae at that point was far from universally townread, so it wasn't like a super, against the thread take, imho.

[Visor]

Visor, where's your head at on our good colonel?

seems okay so far

dude is a pretty good wolf so nothing clearing but seems ok

[pzelda]

I have pzelda low solely because of them attributing sometheing to visor(IIRC about laying low early on) which is something i just don't think ever actually crosses visor's mind in practice so i was concerned it was a fabricated read. But I don't hate where they are currently pushing or the results of other reads so i'm not gonna harp on it too much other than this.

Tbh, my Visor read isn't exactly locked. I don't think I would vote him today unless he returns and posts wolfy. It's just that I have more reasons to sr him now than to tr him now.
To dive into meta a little, I'm rarely paranoid about Visor and I usually balls to the wall townread him, when I feel like he might be town. Here, I don't get it. I might be forcing it a little into a scumread, because I find that more interesting than keeping him in nulls.

[pzelda]

ok i read a couple posts this morning and i just want to say

i 98% think amy is a wolf and my vote there is entirely serious, i just wanted to finish the refernece

i will dumpster amy later (and it annoys me that ppl who are not me are gonna get credit because i went to bed lol :P)

this changes things, i guess. I need to take some time to consider how.

[pzelda]

1)Is Colonel Bop? I wonder why his reads are so different from mine. I really just wonder, because I find myself agreeing with most of my other townreads. Is it a different approach to processing people? I would like to see into that to learn something new, but I don't think it's really important alignment-wise.
2)Cuth was difficult to read at first, but I think his approach is too careless to be wolf. Ok, wolves can be careless, but he's also decent and questioning other people and evaluating the gamestate.
3)If I compare Visor's and Amy's returns, the former is flashier and it immediately made me wanna sheep Visor. BUT after thinking about it for a while I'm not that sure if he's that townier than Amy and I need to reread his posts. Tbh, I'm willing to blindly follow town Visor and his strong reads. The one good thing is that he managed to purge my pre-flip w/w association.

[pzelda]

I haven't reread Visor yet, but I have a thought. Why would scum Visor lock himself in a fight with Amy here? I think it would make him a likely d2 kill or at least put him under serious pressure later on (if Amy gets yeeted and flips town). Visor probably is capable of risking that, but there are subtler ways to do it than to return in thread guns blazing. I'm just getting a vibe that scum Visor would be a sneakier creature.

[pzelda]

More thoughts before diving into Visor. I think that Colonel's read are actually off. Dolby dropped few meta bombs and disappeared (might be irl circumstances), but I think that relying on previous games too heavily is more indicative of scum and he shouldn't be anyone's top town. Csargo is difficult to read, but he's a lovely fella and I think that putting him in wolves is a cheap move. Balls to the wall, Csargo's more likely town here and that read is too strong for too little. I also think that town Visor is capable of making a laser precise read on Csargo by d2.

Monty is scum but he always gets killed earlier or later. He's not the best possible elimination today. Dya probably scum, but there's a big question mark of her being tired for real. In that case yeeting someone else might be more informative as there are more than three other solid candidates for wolves. I believe Amy/Visor contains one (very likely Amy), Eph/Dolbster probably includes a wolf and there are several other players, who are far from locked.

I'm getting tired and my english is getting more broken. I'm sorry for that.

[pzelda]

tbh, there are still posts from Visor, which make me wee uncertain (mostly his sod friendly chatting with Csargo and GH), but I like his take on Dolby, his vote on Dya and the way he approached Amy. All that combined I'm willing to call him town and follow his lead.

Unvote: Montomercy
Vote: Ampharos

[GeneralHankerchief]

Visor, what are your specific thoughts on Amy? I'm aware that you think she's mafia but would like a bit of a foundation as to why you got to 98% confidence.

[Visor]

I came into this saying I wasn't going to get pocketed by the pogchamps and then immediately started townreading Hally and Ephemeral. Eph just feels super comfortable and I really liked Hally's "X Y and Z towncore with me?" post as well as their "Ara has rocks in her brain" post.

incidentally i have rocks in my brain

Ara might be a villager but I suck at reading Ara so I'm gonna ruminate on it for a bit.

The fact that GH is getting called tryhard is really funny to me because I think y'all's perspective of what tryharding is is super warped. I'm lightly townreading his current level of engagement with the thread with the caveat that I would feel really bad if he randed wolf again and might just be #wanting.

i have no wolfreads and i'm probably not posting much more tonight, get at me


i don't think anything sunbae's posted has been alignment indicative and i think it's kinda wack that he's copping townreads already


possible, but i think there's also a natural inclination to townread sunbae because he's a nice dude who writes nice posts that make you nod along

i just think it's too early to be making that call when he's also perfectly capable of faking it


mm

visor's prolly town

Dunkin' Donuts: Part 1

the first post is performative, making a show of things (and worth contrasting to the later post re sunbae). it also is just tonally off for the position of the thread, its making a grand statement where at that point a lot of people already villa read those slots. plus i think it is in amys wolf tone wheelhouse

sunbae post: two problemos, one is the meta narrative behind pulling away village reads on sunbae, and the other is the word choice, wack. first part: obv sunbae is a good player, but most of us are good players and make good tonal posts, while sunbae could probably make the posts he made as either alignment, in the end that doesnt matter and you have to start somewhere. i don't think the paranoia around sunbae slot makes sense for how you treat the hally/eph slots. the bigger issue imo is the word choice wack, firstly it shades the ppl who make those reads implicitly through dark forces. second thing is that its the wrong word choice, the words you expect to see here are: weird, strange, wild, etc. wack is a stylistic choice that wolves make to appear with it.

townreading me: amy struggled to townread me most of the inviational game until the gh/newc section (which is fine), but she also expressed she has had trouble reading me in the past. it seems strange to me, to place such an early townread on me, when historically you say you have had trouble reading me, when i haven't done a huge amoutn of solving thus far in the game, and i am well known for making offtopic/joke posts as either alignment (as a person in general). ppl who know me might lean one way or another, but it feels weird for me to be a village read when i haven't kicked on to anything yet

there's no paranoia over my posts here, but we should be paranoid over sunbae for posting things that sound fine? sunbae could be a wolf and i am wrong here, but it should be fine to villaread sunbae for stuff, we are gonna examine him later if he survives anyway.

thx for attending my ted talk, see you bronanas tomorrow.

[Visor]

the crux of the post for me is the tonal structure of sentences/word choices really pings me

ymmv

and nice cross post gh

[Cuthillius]

yeppers

i read that string of posts when i was catching up this morning and was debating in my head about whether or not to talk about them

and then i saw visor had the same impression and was like sick i don't have to use my words

but i agree wholeheartedly

i don't think that teasing away strong early reads is Wolfy, i don't think that hally and eph are bad reads to have, i don't think criticizing people calling out gh for tryharding is Wrong

i do think they are weird things to do, and the last one is particularly soapbox-y

but it all feels like she's going through the motions and i really don't like the reaction to visor

[GeneralHankerchief]

Seems good enough to me. :stupido:

[Visor]

yeppers

i read that string of posts when i was catching up this morning and was debating in my head about whether or not to talk about them

and then i saw visor had the same impression and was like sick i don't have to use my words

but i agree wholeheartedly

i don't think that teasing away strong early reads is Wolfy, i don't think that hally and eph are bad reads to have, i don't think criticizing people calling out gh for tryharding is Wrong

i do think they are weird things to do, and the last one is particularly soapbox-y

but it all feels like she's going through the motions and i really don't like the reaction to visor

i agree they are not wrong and perfectly valid thoughts, just the way things are expressed

but ye basically

[Visor]

Seems good enough to me. :stupido:

"wolf watching a villager kill another villager"

:stare:

[GeneralHankerchief]

Hally getting back to your question from earlier in the day, I no longer believe that Visor and Amy could be paired.

[Ampharos]

i have no defense other than "i was in a shit headspace last night for oog reasons and am not surprised that i was off tonally"

am confident that my body of work will vindicate me eventually

[Cuthillius]

i have no defense other than "i was in a shit headspace last night for oog reasons and am not surprised that i was off tonally"

am confident that my body of work will vindicate me eventually

incorrect i am the odd night tracker

[Cuthillius]

vote: GeneralHankerchief

[Ampharos]

"wolf watching a villager kill another villager"

:stare:

for the record, though, this is exactly the sort of read i townread visor off of last night

i was fully aware that my mood was probably gonna be reflected in my play and was unsurprised to immediately receive suspicion upon posting, but the snapvote itself didn't really move the needle for me; it was the post in reply to my sunbae thing, something along the lines of "this is a wolf telling villagers to stop correctly reading a villager" that felt super authentic and like he was actually making a read off my posts

just feels like the sort of read that comes from villagers much more often

+ i don't think i'm an easy misdunk target and continue to suspect that wolves would generally prefer to pocket me d1 rather than bury me, absent outside influence

[Ampharos]

i also didn't think my opener was so far affected that someone with tmi would pick up on it and feel confident wolfreading it, i suppose, but i'm unsure if i stand by that given the current wagon on me lol

[Esooa]

I feel like I'm having issues getting into the flow of this game

hally pointing out weird posts with few conclusions feels more like their villa game but im not ready to commit

why're you having issues with that dyachei

[Esooa]

i guess i’m worried he’s #overcompensating for that by forcing himself to come out swinging again, but that didn’t go so well for him in team maf (dab dab) so i dunno if he would do it again lol

disagree. So far it feels to me much more like actual things he's picking up rather than opening the game with a case, based on how his focus is more fluid and such

[Esooa]

well he's definitely not doing a repeat of team mafia so far

nor do i expect him to

but his pushes so far are kinda:stare:

I disagree they're very :stare:

Dolby has had straight up weird takes multiple times"

I lightly dislike him for that reason so eh

[Esooa]

I'm ordering fancy crepes

want

[Esooa]

sunbae
eph
dolby
ara
capage
gh
esooa
bop

might just mess around and call all these villagers. bop is probably my least confident but it feels alright for now

feels kinda early for this, and usually when I have this many early town reads I get kinda paranoid

Idr if Hally is the same but hopefully I see at least some of that later

[Visor]

Sunbae

you around?

wanna talk dya?

[Maple]

Who is thread spewed

[Esooa]

The "amusingly self-deprecating" tier:

Cuthillius

The "seems very villagery and if so will be painfully obvious by EoD2 at the latest" tier:

Esooa
Hally
Sunbae

The "feel familiarly villagery in a way that makes me happy but isn't actually very coherent in my mind" tier:

Arapocalypse
Ephemeral

The "makes me question if I have a microchip implanted in my mind to sponge thoughts from my future self so he can pocket me" tier:

Visor

The "my friends are v-reading him so I feel like I should too" tier:

Dolby

The "if they're wolves they're doing a great job of hiding it, but the same applies to them if v" tier:

Csargo
Montmorency
pzelda
Manasi
ColonelLubriderm
dyachei
Maple

The "prepare to be spitroasted" tier:

GeneralHankerchief
Ampharos
interested in more about pzelda, myself, gh here

[Maple]

Sunbae is sunbae posting but it isn't overtly villagery

I trust cthalion very little

[Maple]

I want to call manasi v for literally no reason other than thread feelz

This is a bad read

[Maple]

I'm not a fan of dya but it could be oog

[Maple]

Ara is giving me specifically lms vibes and I don't understand it

[Maple]

If anyone will be thread spewed my money is in hally or esooa

I don't trust hally though, their gh posting felt odd; I never trust them tho

[Esooa]

I'm actually not doing that because I don't feel like multiquoting; maybe he's just threadspewed town and this is easy!!

Vote: Visor

I read ~all of day 1 of the rocks invitational (and none after) but since that game I've been very wary of considering people threadspewed, cause of the newcomb stuff lol

[Esooa]

I don't really have strong thoughts on very many people. I think Visor/Dolby are performing below my expectations of them, judging by past experience. They're usually more obviously town, pretty quickly, so I think they're underwhelming at present.

I'm thinking that pzelda is probably town, because the thoughts and how he's processing people are eerily similar to last game.

I think Esooa, GH, Hally, you, and Cuth are okay.

The rest I don't have particularly strong thoughts either way on.

can you explain your read on me? I find it odd I'm getting basically nothing but town reads in my catchup while I've not really done much lol

[Esooa]

My town core is Zelda, Ara, and Colonel i think

can you explain ara/colonel?

[Esooa]

i didnt know my parents were playing this game

lmfao

[Esooa]

tbh, there are still posts from Visor, which make me wee uncertain (mostly his sod friendly chatting with Csargo and GH), but I like his take on Dolby, his vote on Dya and the way he approached Amy. All that combined I'm willing to call him town and follow his lead.

Unvote: Montomercy
Vote: Ampharos

6 consecutive good posts from pzelda here is making me wanna just lock town him lol

[Esooa]

Dunkin' Donuts: Part 1

the first post is performative, making a show of things (and worth contrasting to the later post re sunbae). it also is just tonally off for the position of the thread, its making a grand statement where at that point a lot of people already villa read those slots. plus i think it is in amys wolf tone wheelhouse

sunbae post: two problemos, one is the meta narrative behind pulling away village reads on sunbae, and the other is the word choice, wack. first part: obv sunbae is a good player, but most of us are good players and make good tonal posts, while sunbae could probably make the posts he made as either alignment, in the end that doesnt matter and you have to start somewhere. i don't think the paranoia around sunbae slot makes sense for how you treat the hally/eph slots. the bigger issue imo is the word choice wack, firstly it shades the ppl who make those reads implicitly through dark forces. second thing is that its the wrong word choice, the words you expect to see here are: weird, strange, wild, etc. wack is a stylistic choice that wolves make to appear with it.

townreading me: amy struggled to townread me most of the inviational game until the gh/newc section (which is fine), but she also expressed she has had trouble reading me in the past. it seems strange to me, to place such an early townread on me, when historically you say you have had trouble reading me, when i haven't done a huge amoutn of solving thus far in the game, and i am well known for making offtopic/joke posts as either alignment (as a person in general). ppl who know me might lean one way or another, but it feels weird for me to be a village read when i haven't kicked on to anything yet

there's no paranoia over my posts here, but we should be paranoid over sunbae for posting things that sound fine? sunbae could be a wolf and i am wrong here, but it should be fine to villaread sunbae for stuff, we are gonna examine him later if he survives anyway.

thx for attending my ted talk, see you bronanas tomorrow.

this is the longest Visor post I've ever seen I think, and it's constantly making me feel weird about him lol

Am I right you don't usually make posts like this Visor? Why now?

[Esooa]

Who is thread spewed

pzelda but I town read him p strongly now so idc anymore

[Visor]

this is the longest Visor post I've ever seen I think, and it's constantly making me feel weird about him lol

Am I right you don't usually make posts like this Visor? Why now?

you are wrong!

i post how i feel like when i feel like which i think is why ppl can have trouble reading me because i don't play the same game everytime

[Esooa]

Sunbae is sunbae posting but it isn't overtly villagery

I trust cthalion very little

+1 to cuth but I wanna hear more from him about the reads on like, myself and GH

do I just vote by bolding? like this lol?

vote: Cuthalion

[Esooa]

you are wrong!

i post how i feel like when i feel like which i think is why ppl can have trouble reading me because i don't play the same game everytime

oki, well if you normally change playstyle stuff like that I'll probably try not to factor that into my read. I think I've only ever seen you make more snippy posts though (idk what else to use other than snippy but it's not bad)

[Esooa]

anyways yay I'm caught up now time to vibe

[Visor]

oki, well if you normally change playstyle stuff like that I'll probably try not to factor that into my read. I think I've only ever seen you make more snippy posts though (idk what else to use other than snippy but it's not bad)

i did make some longer posts in the metal gear game

idk

you will mostly see short snippy posts but i do occasionally branch out into the forbidden art of text walling

[Esooa]

i did make some longer posts in the metal gear game

idk

you will mostly see short snippy posts but i do occasionally branch out into the forbidden art of text walling

I didn't read that game after dying

[Arapocalypse]

I don't really have strong thoughts on very many people. I think Visor/Dolby are performing below my expectations of them, judging by past experience. They're usually more obviously town, pretty quickly, so I think they're underwhelming at present.

I'm thinking that pzelda is probably town, because the thoughts and how he's processing people are eerily similar to last game.

I think Esooa, GH, Hally, you, and Cuth are okay.

The rest I don't have particularly strong thoughts either way on.
Can you elaborate on one of the ones that you have as okay? Or rather, what's your strongest townread?

How have you found Dolby to be more obviously town than here?

[Arapocalypse]

My town core is Zelda, Ara, and Colonel i think
Why me/Colonel?

[Sunbae]

Sunbae

you around?

wanna talk dya?

Outside of this quick check in I won't really be around much until later tonight at the earliest or tomorrow. I'm going to do my best to land in the 75 post range at the end of the day (one for my own sanity, two because I am a visitor to the forum and think it's pretty clear that high volume isn't really what the regulars here are hoping for).

I don't really have many Dya thoughts. I had a brief interaction with her, did a couple of quick lower post count isos before I headed out later, saw hers and thought it was the posting of someone that didn't really want to be there. I thought it was possibly due to randing wolf yet again after getting a small break in the rand last game and voted her. Nothing that has happened since has made me feel differently but there's other things I've been focusing on so it's kinda on the back burner.

[Sunbae]

Why me/Colonel?

I think Colonel's reads and engagement about reads point towards being a villager. Notably how different to everyone else he's been and the way he started changing GH's reads around to show where he'd be instead + following it up with saying "i didnt' say we were close. I was showing you what needed to change for us to be close". Just kinda feels like they are doing their own thing and don't really care what the perception is on it.

With you I think the way you engaged about pZelda asking others why they townread them in the way you did was towny. Essentially that it wasn't just a throwaway question but one you kinda harped on for a bit to get an answer for made me think you actually cared. When you got one from me you engaged with it and didn't seem to have an agenda behind agreeing with part of my take but not being entirely satisfied (saying you might pull up whats been bothering you later).

[Visor]

any toughts on amy?

[Arapocalypse]

I think you haven't seen me scum in a while. But let's talk about you. You are usually quite difficult to read early on, but I'm getting a good vibe from this one post (earlier posts were either forgettable or slightly scary as that comic strip reminded me of w!GH in champs, but I guess you just couldn't resist a good joke). Here you react to previous activity and ask questions, if you further develop your reads based on answers I think it's a good look!!! That said, some parts feel over the roof hype, almost cryptic. I don't love it, but I don't think it's wolfy.

I don't think you are in danger of getting my vote today, but It's also too early to let you in my town. And i think that's a fair read.
It's quite fair that I probably haven't; I actually can't remember the last time I've seen you as mafia? Besides maybe that one pink champs game!!!

I unfortunately am not able to take credit for the funny comic; it was made by 4maskwolf in a recent teamgame, but is very !!!!!!!!!!!!!! for many mafia situations and I am thus adopting it as my own!!!!!

:on_void:

[Sunbae]

any toughts on amy?

None. I'm a sucker for "my headspace was bad last night but I'll get right". I tend to just give that space. I could talk about how acknowledging that issues were issues instead of arguing against specific parts of the case is mildly villagery but I don't really think that matters in the grand scheme of things and think the next 24 hours will say a lot more.

My biggest note of the whole thing was how your take on Ampharos giving you a town read pretty quickly being weird pretty much mirrored my earlier post about my mild concerns with you lol. Yours sounded a lot fancier but I think the gist was the same.

Do you think my concerns about csargo are things that actually matter with them? I kinda found their response of "yeah i get awkward sometimes just how it is" villagery but I have zero experience with them so I'm hoping for some guidance.

[Arapocalypse]

Ara, your definition of "TWTBAW" seems... gauged on a much more sensitive scale than usual, so I'm not sure what to do with those reads? Like, usually I'm used to people applying that read to people who are doing things that just splash into the thread in a very wolfy way, but you seem to be saying "these things are slightly >rand w and I don't think this person would do that many slightly >rand w things so they're probably town". Does that make sense?

Also, why am I a villager?
I gather that you think I'm applying the TWTBAW label too liberally, if I'm understanding you correctly? Which... I mean, I guess I could be? But I think I have it set at approximately the correct scale to have for someone who's only had 4 posts in the game so far which unless Montmorency has a severe post-volume meta different (which I don't think he does) then... I'm fine with this for a light initial read, not ride or die!!!

I feel like you are interested in and engaged in the game in a towny way; really basic read but stuff like you outlining your reads already and others make me feel like you're thinking about the game, I guess!! Not a strong read; that being said, I'm okay with it at the moment!!!!

[Visor]

None. I'm a sucker for "my headspace was bad last night but I'll get right". I tend to just give that space. I could talk about how acknowledging that issues were issues instead of arguing against specific parts of the case is mildly villagery but I don't really think that matters in the grand scheme of things and think the next 24 hours will say a lot more.

My biggest note of the whole thing was how your take on Ampharos giving you a town read pretty quickly being weird pretty much mirrored my earlier post about my mild concerns with you lol. Yours sounded a lot fancier but I think the gist was the same.

Do you think my concerns about csargo are things that actually matter with them? I kinda found their response of "yeah i get awkward sometimes just how it is" villagery but I have zero experience with them so I'm hoping for some guidance.

ya me too, gonna give some time there before deciding what to do.

i did find csargos posts a little awkard at times? but i havent read what ive missed overnight so i may be missing some stuff

it felt a little 200 tildes.

[Arapocalypse]

1)Is Colonel Bop? I wonder why his reads are so different from mine. I really just wonder, because I find myself agreeing with most of my other townreads. Is it a different approach to processing people? I would like to see into that to learn something new, but I don't think it's really important alignment-wise.
2)Cuth was difficult to read at first, but I think his approach is too careless to be wolf. Ok, wolves can be careless, but he's also decent and questioning other people and evaluating the gamestate.
3)If I compare Visor's and Amy's returns, the former is flashier and it immediately made me wanna sheep Visor. BUT after thinking about it for a while I'm not that sure if he's that townier than Amy and I need to reread his posts. Tbh, I'm willing to blindly follow town Visor and his strong reads. The one good thing is that he managed to purge my pre-flip w/w association.
Okay okay, you can be town; these are really towny thoughts!!!

Very !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(This chain of posts in general is !!!!!!!!!!!! but pulling this one out in particular as it's the most notable of them!!!!)

[Cuthillius]

interested in more about pzelda, myself, gh here

nothing to say about pzelda

you're there because you made a few posts that read well emotionally (i know people hate this sort of read because emotions aren't something you're supposed to read people off of but i don't care) early on and i feel pretty good about how your approach has lined up with those specific feelings

gh and amy are both the sort of players who sound reasonable and present plausible logical arguments no matter what they're doing, but i dislike the angles they've taken with their reads and where they've engaged to a degree, and neither has presented a lot of Caring about their reads or state in the game at this point

which is just me trying to find slightly different words than the ones i used talking to visor just now-- essentially, both feel like they are Making Points but lacking in the depth and subtleties that i expect to see from them as villagers

i'm not smitten with gh's swap onto amy and i wanted to give amy some space after her posts just now (i don't think they sway the needle entirely, but i resonate with the humanity in them), thus the vote switch just now

[Cuthillius]

I read ~all of day 1 of the rocks invitational (and none after) but since that game I've been very wary of considering people threadspewed, cause of the newcomb stuff lol

i kid you not

i have spent half a day wondering why people were talking about rocks so much and what game they were referencing

it just clicked when i read this post on my walk just now

i feel very silly

[Cuthillius]

visor i'm gonna be salty if you're v and you misread me later in the game despite my prolific use of capitalization and punctuation this morning

[Csargo]

can you explain your read on me? I find it odd I'm getting basically nothing but town reads in my catchup while I've not really done much lol

To keep it simple, I thought your woof game was stiff and it seemed at times you were just pandering to people. Your town game was more loose/relaxed for lack of a better word, I think I see that more here, that's enough for me to think you're okay for now.

[Csargo]

ya me too, gonna give some time there before deciding what to do.

i did find csargos posts a little awkard at times? but i havent read what ive missed overnight so i may be missing some stuff

it felt a little 200 tildes.

I figured you'd be well aware of this.

[pzelda]

I want to call manasi v for literally no reason other than thread feelz

This is a bad read

I mindmeld with this read.

[pzelda]

this is the longest Visor post I've ever seen I think, and it's constantly making me feel weird about him lol

Am I right you don't usually make posts like this Visor? Why now?

lol, I had the same feeling. I remember longer posts from Visor, but I haven't seen one in a long long time.

[dyachei]

i've committed to too much and this game is on the backburner for me

i wanted to chill more and said I'd be lower posting when I joined

[Zack]

Official Tally as of #636

5 Ampharos (Visor, Hally, Cuthillius, GeneralHankerchief, pzelda)

2 Csargo (Sunbae, Arapocalypse)
2 Cuthillius (Maple, Esooa)

1 GeneralHankerchief (Csargo)
1 Hally (Montmorency)
1 Maple (Ephemeral)
1 Montmorency (ColonelLubriderm)

Not Voting: Ampharos, Dolby, dyachei, Manasi

thunderously calm


Votes without bold don't count. :book2:

[pzelda]

It's quite fair that I probably haven't; I actually can't remember the last time I've seen you as mafia? Besides maybe that one pink champs game!!!

I unfortunately am not able to take credit for the funny comic; it was made by 4maskwolf in a recent teamgame, but is very !!!!!!!!!!!!!! for many mafia situations and I am thus adopting it as my own!!!!!

:on_void:

Usually, as scum I get sooner or later bussed or outed by bussing.

[Cuthillius]

yes yes i know

vote: GeneralHankerchief

[Csargo]

Can you elaborate on one of the ones that you have as okay? Or rather, what's your strongest townread?

How have you found Dolby to be more obviously town than here?

pzelda>Esooa>GH>Cuth,you, Hally.

I can't really explain the zelda read any better. Other than from last game to this game looks the same to me, so I don't think it's hard to infer that zelda's probably town here. I don't have much to say about the other's that I haven't already said somewhere else.

Cuth, Ara, Hally are just people I felt okay with from skimming the thread, I don't really have anything to point to, to say why exactly. Just that they were people who seemed good to me. I don't want to think about it too much tbh.

I don't understand your second question if I'm honest. Dolby's usually pretty clear-cut and has well thought-out insights regarding the game. This just looks really messy to me. I dunno, it's not really that good of an argument, but ~:shrug:

[pzelda]

Not Voting: Ampharos, Dolby, dyachei, Manasi


How likely is it that two or more wolves haven't voted yet? From other votes I only dislike throwaway votes on Maple and Hally and maybe Maple's vote on Cuth, but I find that one reasonable enough given the time it happened and that Cuth's among more controversial players. I actually don't mind votes on GH for now. I might expand on why GH's in my town in the morning if necessary.

[Arapocalypse]

the crux of the post for me is the tonal structure of sentences/word choices really pings me

ymmv

and nice cross post gh
I see where you're coming from regarding Ampharos, I just... am not really getting the same thing? For example, the wording stuff; I feel like I have a semi-decentish sense of general wording and that it isn't overly out of line? Like wacky, for instance; also stuff like the initial post townreading you felt offhandish!!

My point is that reading them just makes me think yeah, those are definitely Ampharos posts; doesn't make me overly lean them either way, I suppose, and I feel like you may be reading into it overly much!!

As an aside, not really related but I think it's actually been a long time since I've actually mindmelded with someone over suspecting someone versus townreads, outside of stupid minor stuff!!!

[pzelda]

pzelda>Esooa>GH>Cuth,you, Hally.

I can't really explain the zelda read any better. Other than from last game to this game looks the same to me, so I don't think it's hard to infer that zelda's probably town here. I don't have much to say about the other's that I haven't already said somewhere else.

Cuth, Ara, Hally are just people I felt okay with from skimming the thread, I don't really have anything to point to, to say why exactly. Just that they were people who seemed good to me. I don't want to think about it too much tbh.

I don't understand your second question if I'm honest. Dolby's usually pretty clear-cut and has well thought-out insights regarding the game. This just looks really messy to me. I dunno, it's not really that good of an argument, but ~:shrug:

I hope I'm not getting pocketed here. I find myself tryharding more to be a findable town this game. But that's my angle.
Hally probably is falling off because of her recent inactivity, but her early posts were enough for me to lock her town for d1 and d2. She's more of a support type player than a town leader and she has been doing exactly that. Posting content for others to work with.

I'm curious about your GH take and why you're keeping your vote on him.

[Arapocalypse]

Ara is giving me specifically lms vibes and I don't understand it
What are lms vibes?

Also, if I were to call anyone threadspewed town, it'd be probably Capage as town!!!!

[Arapocalypse]

I read ~all of day 1 of the rocks invitational (and none after) but since that game I've been very wary of considering people threadspewed, cause of the newcomb stuff lol
What are you referring to?

(Also I only really read the first half of day 1, probably less than you did then!! :p )

[Csargo]

I hope I'm not getting pocketed here. I find myself tryharding more to be a findable town this game. But that's my angle.
Hally probably is falling off because of her recent inactivity, but her early posts were enough for me to lock her town for d1 and d2. She's more of a support type player than a town leader and she has been doing exactly that. Posting content for others to work with.

I'm curious about your GH take and why you're keeping your vote on him.

I'm just trying to be simple, given my track record of reading you wrong pretty consistently.

[Csargo]

I hope I'm not getting pocketed here. I find myself tryharding more to be a findable town this game. But that's my angle.
Hally probably is falling off because of her recent inactivity, but her early posts were enough for me to lock her town for d1 and d2. She's more of a support type player than a town leader and she has been doing exactly that. Posting content for others to work with.

I'm curious about your GH take and why you're keeping your vote on him.

I just haven't thought about my vote, because I don't view it as particularly important until later in the phase.

Vote:Dolby

[GeneralHankerchief]

Vote: Ephemeral

Still haven't been enthralled by his posts and want to give Amy a little space.

I think Csargo's looked a little townie in his latest bit of posting; feels like he's just doing his own thing and not really pressured to try to advance any particular agenda. Monty's prolonged absence is another matter. I kind of want to give him the day regardless because I feel like I'll be able to get a solid handle on him by D2, but in order to do that I need posts, and, well. Right now I think he's basically at rand, wouldn't go there unless <most other people in the game> have been townie. Feels like a copout chop that could go either way.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Vote: Ephemeral

Still haven't been enthralled by his posts and want to give Amy a little space.

I think Csargo's looked a little townie in his latest bit of posting; feels like he's just doing his own thing and not really pressured to try to advance any particular agenda. Monty's prolonged absence is another matter. I kind of want to give him the day regardless because I feel like I'll be able to get a solid handle on him by D2, but in order to do that I need posts, and, well. Right now I think he's basically at rand, wouldn't go there unless <most other people in the game> have been townie. Feels like a copout chop that could go either way.

Formatting ate an important part of that post, it should read wouldn't go there unless [most other people in the game] have been townie.

[Arapocalypse]

pzelda>Esooa>GH>Cuth,you, Hally.

I can't really explain the zelda read any better. Other than from last game to this game looks the same to me, so I don't think it's hard to infer that zelda's probably town here. I don't have much to say about the other's that I haven't already said somewhere else.

Cuth, Ara, Hally are just people I felt okay with from skimming the thread, I don't really have anything to point to, to say why exactly. Just that they were people who seemed good to me. I don't want to think about it too much tbh.

I don't understand your second question if I'm honest. Dolby's usually pretty clear-cut and has well thought-out insights regarding the game. This just looks really messy to me. I dunno, it's not really that good of an argument, but ~:shrug:
Hmm, okay!!

Would you say you have a lot of experience with him and if so, as which alignment(s)? pzelda, that is!

My question is essentially... that answers it, sort of I guess? Good to know, anyway!!!

[Arapocalypse]

How likely is it that two or more wolves haven't voted yet? From other votes I only dislike throwaway votes on Maple and Hally and maybe Maple's vote on Cuth, but I find that one reasonable enough given the time it happened and that Cuth's among more controversial players. I actually don't mind votes on GH for now. I might expand on why GH's in my town in the morning if necessary.
If you're still up, any chance you can explain about it now?

If not, the morning is cool too; no rush!!!

[Csargo]

I hope I'm not getting pocketed here. I find myself tryharding more to be a findable town this game. But that's my angle.
Hally probably is falling off because of her recent inactivity, but her early posts were enough for me to lock her town for d1 and d2. She's more of a support type player than a town leader and she has been doing exactly that. Posting content for others to work with.

I'm curious about your GH take and why you're keeping your vote on him.

I don't know what else you want to talk about re:GH, but if you give me specifics I'll try. Most of what I've posted already is how I feel.

[ColonelLubriderm]

am I wrong to think that Ara getting a slew of V reads means someone somewhere is TMI'ing her alignment?

I ask because I don't think they've been overwhelmingly villagy and I say this with the caveat that I am by no means an ara whisperer.

[ColonelLubriderm]

Vote: Csargo

[Csargo]

Hmm, okay!!

Would you say you have a lot of experience with him and if so, as which alignment(s)? pzelda, that is!

My question is essentially... that answers it, sort of I guess? Good to know, anyway!!!

I have a decent amount of experience with pzelda as both alignments I think. More town than woof iirc. I was in both the games GH posted earlier today.

[Arapocalypse]

Still mulling over the Visor read of Ampharos in my head; intially I was mostly shrug about it because I just feel like it's reading into it more than it is actually alignment-indicative!!! On second thought, I guess I somewhat like some of the nuance in it? General scope of the read, just sort of early but also I just personally don't really get into reads like that that early, but I think the way Visor approached it in general felt decently, also when factoring in the way he was talking about it before getting into it as though it was literal fact and stuff... I just don't necessarily agree with the case!!

Not really sure how comprehensible that was, but I've been staring at this post for literal ages now, so yeah!!!!!

[Esooa]

I hope I'm not getting pocketed here. I find myself tryharding more to be a findable town this game. But that's my angle.
Hally probably is falling off because of her recent inactivity, but her early posts were enough for me to lock her town for d1 and d2. She's more of a support type player than a town leader and she has been doing exactly that. Posting content for others to work with.

I'm curious about your GH take and why you're keeping your vote on him.

I like the conceptualization of Hally as a support type player lol

[Esooa]

What are you referring to?

(Also I only really read the first half of day 1, probably less than you did then!! :p )

reads like "the amount of people who's interactions with newcomb are leaning into trying to gain his favor means he's spewed town" when he was wolf

[Arapocalypse]

I have a decent amount of experience with pzelda as both alignments I think. More town than woof iirc. I was in both the games GH posted earlier today.
Alright, good to know!!!!!

Threadspewed hype!!!

[dyachei]

I like ara rn!!!!!

[Esooa]

am I wrong to think that Ara getting a slew of V reads means someone somewhere is TMI'ing her alignment?

I ask because I don't think they've been overwhelmingly villagy and I say this with the caveat that I am by no means an ara whisperer.

maybe? I was actually thinking that was the case for myself but I didn't wanna bother going back to see who town read me and why rn, which is probably an important consideration for making such a read

[ColonelLubriderm]

Esooa replying to dolby villa reading them with "thats my first wolfgame so it's probably not applicable meta" then going a step further and saying they were doing the opposite so they don't get how they are getting the villa read ensures that i'm not going to think about voting esooa before day 3 or 4.

fight me

[Arapocalypse]

reads like "the amount of people who's interactions with newcomb are leaning into trying to gain his favor means he's spewed town" when he was wolf
Hmm, okay; I think I see what you mean here!!!

Though I'm not really getting that sense here, personally; the townreads don't really feel... engage-y, I guess?

[Arapocalypse]

I like ara rn!!!!!
dya!!!!!! Hello!!!!

How are you doing?

[Esooa]

I like ara rn!!!!!

I like ara always

[dyachei]

dya!!!!!! Hello!!!!

How are you doing?

really really tired. i still feel a little lost but i found myslef nodding along to your posts

[Visor]

really really tired. i still feel a little lost but i found myslef nodding along to your posts

nice lost wolf signal bronana

[ColonelLubriderm]

esooa has replaced dolby as my mason

and im not saying this to get that sweet villa read from esooa for claiming mason with themor am i

[dyachei]

nice lost wolf signal bronana

you're welcome

[Esooa]

esooa has replaced dolby as my mason

and im not saying this to get that sweet villa read from esooa for claiming mason with themor am i

~:grouphug: me and all my 10 mason buddies at this point

[Arapocalypse]

maybe? I was actually thinking that was the case for myself but I didn't wanna bother going back to see who town read me and why rn, which is probably an important consideration for making such a read
I feel like reads on you have been generally of the... Hally-type I guess? Though I have you/Ephemeral at around the same tier!!

Also regarding the reads on me, I have no idea; I'm generally not great at reading people off of how they read me!!! :p

[Esooa]

my real read rn on Lubriderm rn is that I've not minded anything he's posted but have felt off about it, was gonna ISO once there's a bit more and try to get a more solid opinion though

[ColonelLubriderm]

my real read rn on Lubriderm rn is that I've not minded anything he's posted but have felt off about it, was gonna ISO once there's a bit more and try to get a more solid opinion though

good luck getting a solid grip.

im all lubed up

[Esooa]

good luck getting a solid grip.

im all lubed up

:embarassed:

[Arapocalypse]

Esooa replying to dolby villa reading them with "thats my first wolfgame so it's probably not applicable meta" then going a step further and saying they were doing the opposite so they don't get how they are getting the villa read ensures that i'm not going to think about voting esooa before day 3 or 4.

fight me
I like it, just maybe not quite as hyped as you seem to be about it!!!!

[Arapocalypse]

really really tired. i still feel a little lost but i found myslef nodding along to your posts
I'm glad to help in the hype!!!!!

Anything that you've been particularly nodding along to?

[dyachei]

I'm glad to help in the hype!!!!!

Anything that you've been particularly nodding along to?

i dont remember anymore

[Esooa]

i dont remember anymore

wanna ISO cuth and give thoughts on him for me?

[dyachei]

wanna ISO cuth and give thoughts on him for me?

not really, no

i'm a terrible cuth reader

[ColonelLubriderm]

nothing i've read from cuth has caused concern from me.

Liked his post towards Ara about her calling montecorenot TWTBAW

[ColonelLubriderm]

https://i.imgflip.com/4z36kk.jpg

[Zack]

Official Tally as of #681

3 Ampharos (Visor, Hally, pzelda)
3 Csargo (Sunbae, Arapocalypse, ColonelLubriderm)

2 Cuthillius (Maple, Esooa)

1 Dolby (Csargo)
1 Ephemeral (GeneralHankerchief)
1 GeneralHankerchief (Cuthillius)
1 Hally (Montmorency)
1 Maple (Ephemeral)

Not Voting: Ampharos, Dolby, dyachei, Manasi

thunderously calm

[Visor]

anyone have thoughts on esooa not caring about the actual content of my post but that i

a) posted a read

b) posted a long post?

i mean she quoted the wall but had nothing to say on it

idk, its a case, i would like feedback

[ColonelLubriderm]

anyone have thoughts on esooa not caring about the actual content of my post but that i

a) posted a read

b) posted a long post?

i mean she quoted the wall but had nothing to say on it

idk, its a case, i would like feedback

I stopped reading their iso after i saw their interaction with dolby when I decided that was good enough for me.

[ColonelLubriderm]

I will however scroll up and look at what you are referring to, and if I even have to click to another page i'll do that too. but only for you

[Esooa]

anyone have thoughts on esooa not caring about the actual content of my post but that i

a) posted a read

b) posted a long post?

i mean she quoted the wall but had nothing to say on it

idk, its a case, i would like feedback

I mean I read it and noted it

Didn't have anything to say about it tho

[ColonelLubriderm]

anyone have thoughts on esooa not caring about the actual content of my post but that i

a) posted a read

b) posted a long post?

i mean she quoted the wall but had nothing to say on it

idk, its a case, i would like feedback

a ha! I did read that and it's why I read their iso in the first place, i remember now.

I thought it was silly that they considered nothing but the size of the post but I didn't care much about it after I read what I found as villagy from them(correcting dolby on why dolby is villa reading them). I didn't think much past it because in their iso they said their first wolf game was last thanksgiving which makes me think they are a newer type of player thus giving more weight to why I like them for the dolby interaction. If people point out to me that any of this is incorrect and they are someone with more experience in mafia then i would be happy to re-evaluate but until a bunch of people tell me I shouldnt have this read then i'm not too worried about it.

To be quite honest, the conviction you had in calling amy a wolf(even if wrong) is where people should start reading you as villagy and people still concerned about you after that point I find concerning. Even if you happen to be a wolf here.

[Visor]

a ha! I did read that and it's why I read their iso in the first place, i remember now.

I thought it was silly that they considered nothing but the size of the post but I didn't care much about it after I read what I found as villagy from them(correcting dolby on why dolby is villa reading them). I didn't think much past it because in their iso they said their first wolf game was last thanksgiving which makes me think they are a newer type of player thus giving more weight to why I like them for the dolby interaction. If people point out to me that any of this is incorrect and they are someone with more experience in mafia then i would be happy to re-evaluate but until a bunch of people tell me I shouldnt have this read then i'm not too worried about it.

To be quite honest, the conviction you had in calling amy a wolf(even if wrong) is where people should start reading you as villagy and people still concerned about you after that point I find concerning. Even if you happen to be a wolf here.

ye agreed

before that it was p much par for the course

thanks for buttering me up for the n1 kill

i'll pretend i pushed you in post dw

[Esooa]

a ha! I did read that and it's why I read their iso in the first place, i remember now.

I thought it was silly that they considered nothing but the size of the post but I didn't care much about it after I read what I found as villagy from them(correcting dolby on why dolby is villa reading them). I didn't think much past it because in their iso they said their first wolf game was last thanksgiving which makes me think they are a newer type of player thus giving more weight to why I like them for the dolby interaction. If people point out to me that any of this is incorrect and they are someone with more experience in mafia then i would be happy to re-evaluate but until a bunch of people tell me I shouldnt have this read then i'm not too worried about it.

To be quite honest, the conviction you had in calling amy a wolf(even if wrong) is where people should start reading you as villagy and people still concerned about you after that point I find concerning. Even if you happen to be a wolf here.

it was my first wolk game and I started playing maf in nov but I try to do well in everything including mafia so

[Arapocalypse]

i dont remember anymore
:(

Anything you want to talk about, in general?

[Esooa]

I can link my most recent wolf game I'm proud of it anyway lol

[Cuthillius]

i think wolves tend to have more of a filter in terms of what they post

esooa in particular is someone who'll probably post a lot as a wolf, but also try to make sure she's cultivating the right image

and that type of player tends to be less likely to just toss out an extremely surface level read that's never going to stick but is poking a bear and is in the range where it's not soft or hard enough to be a good look for them

[Arapocalypse]

anyone have thoughts on esooa not caring about the actual content of my post but that i

a) posted a read

b) posted a long post?

i mean she quoted the wall but had nothing to say on it

idk, its a case, i would like feedback
I think it's sort of towny? As in, I just feel like it's a towny thing for someone to look at a large post and talk about its length; not really something that I feel like mafia would be inclined to do!!!

As in, there's a decent amount of content in there; feels more like they'd feel obligated to talk about it a little!!

[ColonelLubriderm]

I don't really have strong thoughts on very many people. I think Visor/Dolby are performing below my expectations of them, judging by past experience. They're usually more obviously town, pretty quickly, so I think they're underwhelming at present.

I'm thinking that pzelda is probably town, because the thoughts and how he's processing people are eerily similar to last game.

I think Esooa, GH, Hally, you, and Cuth are okay.

The rest I don't have particularly strong thoughts either way on.

I have a hard time characterizing Visor as performing below expectation at this point especially when you consider CSargo read the AMy call out(Note, not the longer case post but the shorter one correcting everyone misinterpreting Visor's read on Amy).

Like, what should visor be doing differently at this point?

part of the reason i switched vote to csargo

[Arapocalypse]

I think it's sort of towny? As in, I just feel like it's a towny thing for someone to look at a large post and talk about its length; not really something that I feel like mafia would be inclined to do!!!

As in, there's a decent amount of content in there; feels more like they'd feel obligated to talk about it a little!!
...It has come to my attention that Cuth is probably correct, oops!!!

I guess I should probably rectify that!!!!!!

[ColonelLubriderm]

i think wolves tend to have more of a filter in terms of what they post

esooa in particular is someone who'll probably post a lot as a wolf, but also try to make sure she's cultivating the right image

and that type of player tends to be less likely to just toss out an extremely surface level read that's never going to stick but is poking a bear and is in the range where it's not soft or hard enough to be a good look for them

SO I completely understand what you are saying here but I know GH won't get it, so for his benefit what would be your current lean on esooa

[GeneralHankerchief]

Town
pzelda | Hally | Esooa

Town enough
Ara | Visor

Town for now
Sunbae | Colonel | Csargo

Unsure/no data available
Cuth | Manasi | Maple | Monty

Concerns
Dolby | Ephemeral | Amy

Not really ordered within tiers. Going to bed now, will answer followups (if any) in the AM.

[ColonelLubriderm]

Town
pzelda | Hally | Esooa

Town enough
Ara | Visor

Town for now
Sunbae | Colonel | Csargo

Unsure/no data available
Cuth | Manasi | Maple | Monty

Concerns
Dolby | Ephemeral | Amy

Not really ordered within tiers. Going to bed now, will answer followups (if any) in the AM.

#theTimeGHforgotDyachei

[GeneralHankerchief]

#theTimeGHforgotDyachei

There's always one. dya probably goes in one of the two bottom categories, let's be generous and say "unsure/no data available" for now.

[ColonelLubriderm]

and now for something completely different.

I like to play sudokus while listening to lofi beats playlists.

who finds this relateable

[Visor]

and now for something completely different.

I like to play sudokus while listening to lofi beats playlists.

who finds this relateable

replace sudokus with sporcle and lofi beats with ambient music

[ColonelLubriderm]

I just had to google sporcle

i am intrigued

[Hally]

I like your reads, so I'll ignore you posting the otter after what you said last game and v-read you, ok?

pls let me in
your application is pending and will be processed in 3-5 business days

[Hally]

i

didn't read that as visor saying amy was v?
he called her a villager though?

[Hally]

i just realized how many new pages there are

i probably should not reply as i go sorry

[Hally]

Oh, that's two lists in a row with pZelda down pretty low so let me try and vibe check this one:

I think pZelda has been thinking about the game in a way that makes it extremely likely to be town. Their comments are not just talking the surface level of whats being said but rather are using what's being said, critically thinking about them, and applying them to different situations in a way that scum just rarely do. My largest example is this one:

Dya made this post:



and pZelda responded with this:



I think the way they read dya's post, see her talking about threadflow, and then take off in a different direction with the threadflow concept to talk about two entirely different people and adjust reads is a progression that scum rarely do. It requires a player to actually to be thinking about the game and how different threads connect which I've found town to be doing way more often whereas scum will be keeping the responses more narrowly focused on the people making the comment to who the people making the comment are discussing.


Secondly, I think pZelda has also show fluidity in their reads. In the already given example they are using the threadflow dya mentioned to understand GH's case better and remove Ephemeral from the towncore after putting him there earlier. There are other examples like how they went from "don't like sunbae's post about being out of the wolf rage" into liking me for my dya vote.

Anyways, I feel rather good about this one but see that others have pZelda lower so seems like a good spot to discuss it.
:2thumbsup:

that capage post you quoted was what prompted me to say capage was my strongest v read

[Visor]

i can see someone coming away with that impression of visor depending on their definition of "laying low"

visor doesn't come out the gate playing villa captain, tossing reads around all over the place, writing GH level paragraphs, etc etc

but he IS around and he IS active and he IS reading the game and he IS making posts, which i suspect is where the disconnect is

fun fact, for quite a while, i did do that

not really anymore, but it was a big hallmark of my play being a villa captain

funny how times change

[Hally]

Vote: pzelda

Does anyone want to talk about why they townread this guy please?! There are about fifty zillion townreads of him in the thread and I seem to be missing the memo, as usual!!

He has given takes on things and such, that I don't find overly towny necessarily; felt a bit more like he was more !!!!!!!!!! about the stuff on him versus reads and things in a way that felt overly self-conscious in a way that I didn't like!!!!
this feels kinda villagery for ara specifically in like a “v!ara not playing the same game as everyone else” kind of way

(i know i said i wouldn’t reply as i go and will try to limit my responses as much as possible but this is just more natural for me and i’ll forget stuff otherwise. please don’t kill me)

[Hally]

Vote: Ampharos

I dig.
kinda weird that you didn’t even ask visor to explain the read before voting

[Csargo]

I have a hard time characterizing Visor as performing below expectation at this point especially when you consider CSargo read the AMy call out(Note, not the longer case post but the shorter one correcting everyone misinterpreting Visor's read on Amy).

Like, what should visor be doing differently at this point?

part of the reason i switched vote to csargo

I'm not sure what post you're referring too. I think Visor is fine now. I thought yesterday, tonally, he was flat and didn't think he was that engaging. That was my impression anyways. I expected something different from Visor this game, which probably skewed my view. I'm just gonna put him with GH and call them both town and never think about it again.

[Montmorency]

POST ONE (Soft)


Some brief context: GH + team of friends randed mafia in team mafia, hard tunneled 1 (obvious) town all day with a townie or two on the side which got vigged that night... and were also essentially treated as outed mafia for ??? reasons the next day!!

rofl

Tell me, uh, tell me more about this game!


AMONG US ??

Why do you think it's called that?


The "home Orgahs" - Monty, (kinda) Visor:

We played our same first game here


can i get a sanity check on this?

Holster your cards until D2.


i

didn't read that as visor saying amy was v?

This post formation always cuthilius a town?

I'm making a layered joke that is slightly serious.


incorrect i am the odd night tracker

It's against the rules to announce your character like that (Lord Argon)


The Second Punic War is everybody's favorite of the three. It's mine too

Second Punic War took out what, up to a quarter of the pre-war population of the peninsula? It helps that the brunt of the deaths were spread over a decade.

The manga adaptation, Ad Astra, has a touching epilogue. Really makes ya think.


i did make some longer posts in the metal gear game

idk

you will mostly see short snippy posts but i do occasionally branch out into the forbidden art of text walling

Get it, get it, until you're cheddarheaded. Watch the way I navigate.

[Hally]

Ah, okay; was wondering whether there was more stuff beyond that interaction!!!

Not really hyping about that in particular; I somewhat liked the thing about not wanting to immediately townread Hally/Ephemeral initially and then immediately doing it (mitigating factors for that though), but otherwise felt shrug!!
what did you like about amy’s thing with me/eph? to me it felt like the kinda thing that a wolf thinks they would say as a villager but actually wouldn’t. also the phrasing of “pocketing” made me feel like she was trying to pocket us. think ladd called it like a reverse pocket? or something. but like, that

[Montmorency]

POST TWO (Hard)

Everyone's got me rexlaxatived on GH by now.

I feel good enough about Ara and Hally to be wary of it.

Vote: Zelda

I see him riding dirty. Add him to the top swagons and we'll call it a day. Sorry Hally.



but what are your thoughts on his posts this game? i’m kinda hmm at you drawing a comparison to that gh wolf game where he pushed an obv villa. it feels kinda premature when you don’t even have a read on the person he’s pushing this game

That's just the impression I was conveying. The key components of the Nuzelock read were that khaan was obviously town, and GH was obviously pushing a bogus and forced agenda. Here my pattern detection was pinged, but the particulars don't rise to that level of intensity. As I have forgotten all meta and mechanics I ever learned, per my initial post, the fact of my having been pinged indicates that the substrate must have been scarring.

Regardless of meta, I did notice that Dolbster tended to avoid addressing GH at SOD, responding indirectly by continuing to develop his thoughts on <player>. I have no opinion on that.


That's because you weren't in it Visor, also hi ~:wave:

I just remember him yeeting khaan for a similar sort of read from what I remember, something along those lines. This is a lot more tame in comparison and from 3+ years ago. That's basically how I remember it.

You were his partner and leaned into the chaos. Zack dragged you to the gibbet kicking and screaming.

Note to GH: I have no thunderbolts to throw at you this game.


i guess i’m just taken aback because i expected gh to be more chill regardless of alignment given this is supposed to be a chill game and it’s on his home turf and everything

i feel like we’re all *gestures* here and he’s like *gestures more* up there on the tryhardiness scale


The only game I've played with GH in recent times he was tryhardy. Is it bad is it good is it meh? It seemed like he was trying to be chill and then for whatever reason took off. It's weird to me.

I feel like GH overreacted to Dolby, I'm not sure if it's unreasonable for him to do that or not, since I didn't think Dolby's read was above scrutiny tbh.

You mean Visor's game here a year ago. I figure I probably sussed GH D1.

Dyachei was scum in that one incidentally, vigged by Zack. Does Visor know something (Dyachei vote)?


I don't like this read. The way it's phrased makes me think Csargo *should* realize that the reason GH likely decided to point out things so much was because he's town, and noticed those, lol. It doesn't seem like the conclusion "it's weird to me" was derived from the things Csargo wrote beforehand

Unusual for a mafia-team to preplan TMI distancing analysis, so based on the process here Csargo-esoo not paired.


I thought he was kinda weird, like I said, and the stuff you said about the Eph read is weird. I share his suspicions on Dolby and in general I don't really think he's that bad. At worst I'm minorly concerned.

Frowny-face post. Feels strained. And I don't mean that in the sense of hedging, as literally every player with a read this game so far has been hedging.


Vote: Csargo

I think some of their posting has been a bit awkward in its construction.

Is the most notable example. The "i just remember thing from what I remember" section reads to me like they were looking to add a qualifier and ended up getting turned around and added it twice.

I also thought the repetitive usage of the word "weird" as a qualifier a few times in a short span about GH's postings was, well, weird in a "wanted to shade the person getting a bit of heat without actually calling them out hard" way.

This read is thin, I know.

Keep the pressure up.

Visor, Dolbster, remind us what happened D1 of Star Trek? This is how Pizza became so powerful by the way: the willingness to put in unlimited work and brainpower and connect dots like a chess algorithm and


I'm just trying to be simple, given my track record of reading you wrong pretty consistently.


I just haven't thought about my vote, because I don't view it as particularly important until later in the phase.

Vote:Dolby

Mixed feelings to the split response to the same zelda post.


Vote: Ephemeral

Still haven't been enthralled by his posts and want to give Amy a little space.

I think Csargo's looked a little townie in his latest bit of posting.

Contemporaneous mind-fenderbender.


I'm not sure what post you're referring too. I think Visor is fine now. I thought yesterday, tonally, he was flat and didn't think he was that engaging. That was my impression anyways. I expected something different from Visor this game, which probably skewed my view. I'm just gonna put him with GH and call them both town and never think about it again.

I feel like this post really ought to be indicative of something, but unfortunately I'm still drawing blank.


Dya just feels like a low energy wolf.

You would know something here, wouldn't you? :eyebrows: :eyebrows:

Anyway, I've noticed that both here and in Visor's Small Game, dyachei evenly spread his posts through the day, each a sentence or two in length. Is this nAI style, or is it a tell that dyachei has a very similar approach (post structure and frequency) to this game as he did to his other, scum, game here? I have no opinion on the content as such.


Vote: pzelda

Does anyone want to talk about why they townread this guy please?! There are about fifty zillion townreads of him in the thread and I seem to be missing the memo, as usual!!

He has given takes on things and such, that I don't find overly towny necessarily; felt a bit more like he was more !!!!!!!!!! about the stuff on him versus reads and things in a way that felt overly self-conscious in a way that I didn't like!!!!

I like the cut of your jib, but my latest flashback is telling me that zelda is usually self-conscious.


Monty is scum but he always gets killed earlier or later.

Hard to TR you with that kind of reasoning. Just saying, mafia who think they can reserve me as an easy ML later in the game tend to be disappointed (safest bet is to take me to LYLO and trick me into the wrong ouster).



Let’s play mason/roleblock/kill

I’ll start

Dolby/csargo/ TBD but manasi for the laughs

I'm not dark enough a force to kill or block?


Montmorency seems like the type of person that attracts heat.

Hmm... heat, but not light? Hard to say.

[Hally]

Dunkin' Donuts: Part 1

the first post is performative, making a show of things (and worth contrasting to the later post re sunbae). it also is just tonally off for the position of the thread, its making a grand statement where at that point a lot of people already villa read those slots. plus i think it is in amys wolf tone wheelhouse

sunbae post: two problemos, one is the meta narrative behind pulling away village reads on sunbae, and the other is the word choice, wack. first part: obv sunbae is a good player, but most of us are good players and make good tonal posts, while sunbae could probably make the posts he made as either alignment, in the end that doesnt matter and you have to start somewhere. i don't think the paranoia around sunbae slot makes sense for how you treat the hally/eph slots. the bigger issue imo is the word choice wack, firstly it shades the ppl who make those reads implicitly through dark forces. second thing is that its the wrong word choice, the words you expect to see here are: weird, strange, wild, etc. wack is a stylistic choice that wolves make to appear with it.

townreading me: amy struggled to townread me most of the inviational game until the gh/newc section (which is fine), but she also expressed she has had trouble reading me in the past. it seems strange to me, to place such an early townread on me, when historically you say you have had trouble reading me, when i haven't done a huge amoutn of solving thus far in the game, and i am well known for making offtopic/joke posts as either alignment (as a person in general). ppl who know me might lean one way or another, but it feels weird for me to be a village read when i haven't kicked on to anything yet

there's no paranoia over my posts here, but we should be paranoid over sunbae for posting things that sound fine? sunbae could be a wolf and i am wrong here, but it should be fine to villaread sunbae for stuff, we are gonna examine him later if he survives anyway.

thx for attending my ted talk, see you bronanas tomorrow.
i don’t get the part about using “wack” but i like the other stuff a lot

also visor is probably just v. i’ve never seen him wolf but i don’t really think w!him takes this kind of line

[Hally]

yeppers

i read that string of posts when i was catching up this morning and was debating in my head about whether or not to talk about them

and then i saw visor had the same impression and was like sick i don't have to use my words

but i agree wholeheartedly

i don't think that teasing away strong early reads is Wolfy, i don't think that hally and eph are bad reads to have, i don't think criticizing people calling out gh for tryharding is Wrong

i do think they are weird things to do, and the last one is particularly soapbox-y

but it all feels like she's going through the motions and i really don't like the reaction to visor
re: bolded - why wouldn’t you?

[Ampharos]

i think wolves tend to have more of a filter in terms of what they post

esooa in particular is someone who'll probably post a lot as a wolf, but also try to make sure she's cultivating the right image

and that type of player tends to be less likely to just toss out an extremely surface level read that's never going to stick but is poking a bear and is in the range where it's not soft or hard enough to be a good look for them

this is the first cuth post that i've had any sort of feeling about

feel pretty ok about it

[Hally]

Hally getting back to your question from earlier in the day, I no longer believe that Visor and Amy could be paired.
thanks chief, dunno what i’d do without you

[Hally]

i actually don’t hate amy’s response

[Ampharos]

Vote: dyachei

how am i supposed to click buttons when there's no buttons to click

[Ampharos]

i actually don’t hate amy’s response

thanks boss i don't either

[Hally]

feels kinda early for this, and usually when I have this many early town reads I get kinda paranoid

Idr if Hally is the same but hopefully I see at least some of that later
to clarify i’m not like, married to these reads and a lot of them are pretty thin. that’s kinda the first step of solving for me (just dividing the game by good feels/absence of good feels) and as i go on i’ll obviously continue to re-evaluate

[Hally]

+1 to cuth but I wanna hear more from him about the reads on like, myself and GH

do I just vote by bolding? like this lol?

vote: Cuthalion
what didn’t you like about cuth?

[Cuthillius]

SO I completely understand what you are saying here but I know GH won't get it, so for his benefit what would be your current lean on esooa
it's unrelated to that specific train of thought, but moderate strength v from some posts early on/how i feel her game has played out since

[Ampharos]

i find myself vaguely townreading p much all of the people who are actually doing things

which is prooobably not correct (this originally said "clearly" and then i remembered teamgame)

we'll workshop it

[Ephemeral]

morning

i fixed my sleep schedule:bounce:

even though it won't last long lol

i'll be catching up ~slowly~ while i get breakfast

[Hally]

Outside of this quick check in I won't really be around much until later tonight at the earliest or tomorrow. I'm going to do my best to land in the 75 post range at the end of the day (one for my own sanity, two because I am a visitor to the forum and think it's pretty clear that high volume isn't really what the regulars here are hoping for).

I don't really have many Dya thoughts. I had a brief interaction with her, did a couple of quick lower post count isos before I headed out later, saw hers and thought it was the posting of someone that didn't really want to be there. I thought it was possibly due to randing wolf yet again after getting a small break in the rand last game and voted her. Nothing that has happened since has made me feel differently but there's other things I've been focusing on so it's kinda on the back burner.
yeah, their lack of presence so far feels out of step with them saying they’re relieved to have randed villa again. if they are it’s not coming through in their posts

[Cuthillius]

re: bolded - why wouldn’t you?

because sometimes i like to stew on things and not force people's hands so they get defensive and i confbias on them and the focus becomes more on whether or not they're conforming to my particular standards by which i'm reading them than how they'd post if they were free to do whatever

because that's not a ton of fun

but i also thought the posts were pretty bad

and i'd have likely mentioned it in passing or implicitly at some point after having caught up if visor hadn't

[Visor]

ye if i wasnt voting amy id be hard pressed to not vote dya sadly

ill have to give dya an iso later
Montmorency

what do you think of the pzelda townread phenom

[Ephemeral]

im also binging money heist, on season 2 episode 4

nice, I'm on season 3 ep 6

it's wild, and for reference I think i started watching it like 2 or 3 days ago lol

[Hally]

nothing to say about pzelda

you're there because you made a few posts that read well emotionally (i know people hate this sort of read because emotions aren't something you're supposed to read people off of but i don't care) early on and i feel pretty good about how your approach has lined up with those specific feelings

gh and amy are both the sort of players who sound reasonable and present plausible logical arguments no matter what they're doing, but i dislike the angles they've taken with their reads and where they've engaged to a degree, and neither has presented a lot of Caring about their reads or state in the game at this point

which is just me trying to find slightly different words than the ones i used talking to visor just now-- essentially, both feel like they are Making Points but lacking in the depth and subtleties that i expect to see from them as villagers

i'm not smitten with gh's swap onto amy and i wanted to give amy some space after her posts just now (i don't think they sway the needle entirely, but i resonate with the humanity in them), thus the vote switch just now
re: esooa - if you’re talking about her saying she was nervous about playing with this roster, i agree. i used to think that kind of sentiment was more NAI but in the past several months i’ve noticed that whenever i’ve expressed that kind of sentiment or seen others express it, it’s always been as villa. my theory is that villagers are more likely to vocalize that imposter syndrome type feeling because they’re just being transparent about their mindset and have no reason not to be, whereas wolves shy away from it because they associate expressing nervousness with wolfiness or just like, vulnerability and they tend to want to craft a different sort of image

[Montmorency]

ye if i wasnt voting amy id be hard pressed to not vote dya sadly

ill have to give dya an iso later
Montmorency

what do you think of the pzelda townread phenom

A source of spew one way or another, for those who care to review D1 in midgame.

Independently, maybe I'm just way off in a contrarian muddle here in light of the consensus. When a (non-mechanical) consensus forms around a player D1 it deserves privileging absent a strong compulsion to the contrary.

All I can recall from the meta is that Zelda is more aggressive as scum, but I can't even evaluate just how aggressive he's been here against baseline. But what really pinged me is that I straight-up disliked his reasoning about most everything, substantively. I can't recall how that fits into meta either. Regrettable, as I should have a good grasp on his style after receiving it in a good number of games and mix of roles in short succession (6?). Such is the life of the amnesiac protagonist.

If that's all the traction my commentary is getting for now, I'll log off.

Y'all read my walls or I probably won't respond to anything concerning me!

[Montmorency]

Actually, when I said aggressive, maybe I meant passive-aggressive. One or the other.

Then again, I can't even articulate the difference in abstract in mafia context.

[Hally]

pzelda>Esooa>GH>Cuth,you, Hally.

I can't really explain the zelda read any better. Other than from last game to this game looks the same to me, so I don't think it's hard to infer that zelda's probably town here. I don't have much to say about the other's that I haven't already said somewhere else.

Cuth, Ara, Hally are just people I felt okay with from skimming the thread, I don't really have anything to point to, to say why exactly. Just that they were people who seemed good to me. I don't want to think about it too much tbh.

I don't understand your second question if I'm honest. Dolby's usually pretty clear-cut and has well thought-out insights regarding the game. This just looks really messy to me. I dunno, it's not really that good of an argument, but ~:shrug:
reading csargo’s posts keeps giving me the feeling of a wolf that doesn’t really know what to post/how to fake reads. his explanations have felt so vague and nondescript that i feel like he’s kinda just saying stuff to say it

any of the org folk have a take on this? are these kinds of posts normal for him?

[Arapocalypse]

and now for something completely different.

I like to play sudokus while listening to lofi beats playlists.

who finds this relateable
That's extremely relatable!!!!!!

Though I've gotten into nonograms lately, courtesy of Esooa; they're very hype!!!!

[Hally]

i dont remember anymore
bruh

[Ephemeral]

Vote: dyachei

[Hally]

that dya sequence of “i like ara” -> “i’m nodding along to her posts” -> “i don’t remember what i was nodding along to” in the span of 15 min is a thonk

i know dya said they were super tired but c’mon

[Ephemeral]

I've really liked cuth catching up

nl has been trending up too

[Ephemeral]

I feel like Amy could kiiiind of go either way atm?

I've got mostly selfish concerns because I think she would've tried to bounce off me harder as a villager esp since she was repping a v read on my slot

But I could be totally off on that metric lol

[Hally]

anyone have thoughts on esooa not caring about the actual content of my post but that i

a) posted a read

b) posted a long post?

i mean she quoted the wall but had nothing to say on it

idk, its a case, i would like feedback
the only i got from it was it felt vaguely not w/w with amy because i kinda feel like an amy teammate would feel the need to say something about the actual content of the case

[Arapocalypse]

morning

i fixed my sleep schedule:bounce:

even though it won't last long lol

i'll be catching up ~slowly~ while i get breakfast
Gooooood morning!!!!!!

It's mafia hype times!!!!

Did you have any exciting mafia dreams?

[Arapocalypse]

that dya sequence of “i like ara” -> “i’m nodding along to her posts” -> “i don’t remember what i was nodding along to” in the span of 15 min is a thonk

i know dya said they were super tired but c’mon
At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I want to say that they'd make up something there? I feel like many if not all of my posts were !!!!!!! and it would not have been difficult to just pick a post or two out!!

Take that with a grain of salt though, I guess!!!

[Hally]

Town
pzelda | Hally | Esooa

Town enough
Ara | Visor

Town for now
Sunbae | Colonel | Csargo

Unsure/no data available
Cuth | Manasi | Maple | Monty

Concerns
Dolby | Ephemeral | Amy

Not really ordered within tiers. Going to bed now, will answer followups (if any) in the AM.
lol @ you forgetting dya existed. kinda says a lot

[Arapocalypse]

what did you like about amy’s thing with me/eph? to me it felt like the kinda thing that a wolf thinks they would say as a villager but actually wouldn’t. also the phrasing of “pocketing” made me feel like she was trying to pocket us. think ladd called it like a reverse pocket? or something. but like, that
I initially liked it because it feels like something town would approach the game with (yeah I'm going to be careful about these players), but only somewhat because it's something that could easily have been thought/considered pre-rand!!!

[Hally]

extremely dumb take: gh probably doesn’t forget to put dya in his reads if they’re w/w

[Ephemeral]

Gooooood morning!!!!!!

It's mafia hype times!!!!

Did you have any exciting mafia dreams?

i've dreamed of sleeping while sleeping

[Arapocalypse]

I like Montmorency's walls; feels very !!!!!!!!!!! in a towny way, just getting those thoughts out there!!!!!!!! Waterfalls and everything!!! Mitigating factor that there have been few walls in this game so far and I may be subconsciously inclined to read the condensed content as towny for that reason; however... I like his general conviction and stuff expressed in his posts, particularly the last one; very hype and feels like he's playing without being concerned about an agenda!!

Also, I appreciate the further thoughts on Capage and have taken those into account!!!

No this isn't a TWTBAW read, it's just a straight up towny read!!!!

Regarding the game I was referring to earlier, yeah that was an interesting game... or a disappointing/boring game, depending on your perspective!! Weird stuff where after day 1 eliminated mafia, the rest ended up following suit in unchallenged wagons in the next few days, bit of a bizarre game!

[Hally]

Montmorency talk about your pzelda vote? was trying to find an explanation in your catchup but i don’t see one

[Arapocalypse]

extremely dumb take: gh probably doesn’t forget to put dya in his reads if they’re w/w
Sure?

I'd be extremely amused if GH randed mafia with Manti yet again!!!!!

[Arapocalypse]

i've dreamed of sleeping while sleeping
Why sleep when you could mafia instead?

Also I'm about where you are at on Amy as well, roughly; hoping for more hype before EoD though as it'd be nice to have a better read there!!