Mass Effect 17er [Game Thread]

[Hally]

thanks boss i don't either
objection: conflict of interest

[Hally]

i find myself vaguely townreading p much all of the people who are actually doing things

which is prooobably not correct (this originally said "clearly" and then i remembered teamgame)

we'll workshop it
zomg everyone is so villagery

[Hally]

i say as i have like 20 villa reads

[Hally]

because sometimes i like to stew on things and not force people's hands so they get defensive and i confbias on them and the focus becomes more on whether or not they're conforming to my particular standards by which i'm reading them than how they'd post if they were free to do whatever

because that's not a ton of fun

but i also thought the posts were pretty bad

and i'd have likely mentioned it in passing or implicitly at some point after having caught up if visor hadn't
ah, gotcha

[Hally]

A source of spew one way or another, for those who care to review D1 in midgame.

Independently, maybe I'm just way off in a contrarian muddle here in light of the consensus. When a (non-mechanical) consensus forms around a player D1 it deserves privileging absent a strong compulsion to the contrary.

All I can recall from the meta is that Zelda is more aggressive as scum, but I can't even evaluate just how aggressive he's been here against baseline. But what really pinged me is that I straight-up disliked his reasoning about most everything, substantively. I can't recall how that fits into meta either. Regrettable, as I should have a good grasp on his style after receiving it in a good number of games and mix of roles in short succession (6?). Such is the life of the amnesiac protagonist.

If that's all the traction my commentary is getting for now, I'll log off.

Y'all read my walls or I probably won't respond to anything concerning me!
can you cite some specific things you disagreed with capage about?

[Hally]

Actually, when I said aggressive, maybe I meant passive-aggressive. One or the other.

Then again, I can't even articulate the difference in abstract in mafia context.
i don’t really think he’s been aggressive or passive aggressive

he’s been forthright but that’s not really the same thing as aggressive

[Hally]

Vote: dyachei


that dya sequence of “i like ara” -> “i’m nodding along to her posts” -> “i don’t remember what i was nodding along to” in the span of 15 min is a thonk

i know dya said they were super tired but c’mon
quality x-post

also vote: dyachei :pop2:

[Hally]

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I want to say that they'd make up something there? I feel like many if not all of my posts were !!!!!!! and it would not have been difficult to just pick a post or two out!!

Take that with a grain of salt though, I guess!!!
i mean, maybe? but at the same time, how do they forget what they just said they were nodding along to if it was significant enough for them to v read you off of

i get it seems twtbaw but i almost feel like it comes full circle to being twtbtwtbaw

[Hally]

I initially liked it because it feels like something town would approach the game with (yeah I'm going to be careful about these players), but only somewhat because it's something that could easily have been thought/considered pre-rand!!!
meh, alright. i had the exact opposite impression because i don’t really get why v!amy would actually be scared to v read me or think i could pocket her as a wolf when i’ve never wolfed against her and she’s found me pretty easily each time we’ve been v/v, but i don’t really wanna harp on this

[Hally]

dyachei do you have an amy read?

[Hally]

i’m finding it hard to process monty’s posts beyond it maybe being vaguely villagery that he’s decided to be contrarian and wolf read the person everyone and their mother is v reading

and i don’t really have any thoughts on cuth beyond that i think his posts are generally agreeable and i liked his takes on esooa

my brain is kinda shutting down

[Hally]

gonna go to sleep unless anyone has something they wanna ask me real quick

[Hally]

oh actually, i forgot to talk about gh

i didn’t really like how he went back to voting eph when eph hadn’t even been itt since he moved off. i don’t even know what i was expecting but i guess like... maybe that he would try to explore new ground or something. so falling back on a push he already made when there was no new posts from eph rubbed me wrong, like maybe he is having a bit of trouble expanding his horizons if that makes sense

also, GeneralHankerchief did you ever check to see what eph wolf game you were thinking of/if you were even thinking of a wolf game and how does that factor or not factor into your continued focus on eph?

[Hally]

okay, i really gotta sleep

sorry i couldn’t real time more but i’m super tired. hopefully i can catch ppl tomorrow since i probably won’t be around for EoD

[Visor]

Hally

updated thoughts on amy?

[Visor]

kinda surprised dolby dropped off as he did

i'll be around if anyone wants to bounce stuff off

[Sunbae]

i find myself vaguely townreading p much all of the people who are actually doing things

which is prooobably not correct (this originally said "clearly" and then i remembered teamgame)

we'll workshop it
Ampharos

Do you think it's fair of me to read this post and contrast it to the "Sunbae says nice things but he can be doing that as scum and nothing is alignment indicative" post from earlier and be confused?

To me it's come off as if you've started the game from a "posting well isn't alignment indicative" mindset that's approaching things with skepticism and hesitancy and now have shifted to a general "Eh, I'll give town reads to those that are active and figure out any deep scum later" laid back mindset. While I think both mindsets are totally fine and reasonable (I'm personally a big believer in the second one a lot of the time) I'm just a bit confused about what caused the shift between the two.

Secondary question: Can you elaborate a bit on the "p much" portion? That makes it sound like you specifically have an active poster that you don't feel is towny but I could be reading into it too much.

[Visor]

Manasi

henlo.

[Ephemeral]

my convo with gh from earlier was unsatisfactory as a whole

felt like he was just answering my qs for the sake of answering as opposed to actively being interested in moving it forward to get a better feel of where I was at/what I was doing

Doesn't feel like he's actually trying to gauge me to get a better grasp of my alignment

:shrug:

[Visor]

sup eph

wheres your head at?

[Sunbae]

I think my "it doesn't read like Dya really wants to be here" read is accurate after her latest stint. My concern is that if there's some real life exhaustion going on then it doesn't necessarily make it alignment indicative. I really struggle with situations like this. For example I could see making the argument that DyaScum has been putting in a halfhearted effort to make an Ara read out of some feeling of obligation for her team even thought she doesn't want to post and being correct about it. I could see making the argument that DyaTown would use the thread more as a hangout and just chat to decompress and being correct about it.

But I don't think either of those things necessarily have to be true so I just sit here unsure what to do. I feel kind of similar with Ampharos' "oog poor state of mind" post. I want to push both of them because I think both have reasonable scum potential but I'm also hesitant to do so further and am just hoping they start feeling it. I think it's the issue of wanting them to be town so we can vibe.

I think my feelings of CsargoScum have strengthened after Mont's wall agreeing with me. Having someone that's had experience playing with Csargo nodding along helps me with my hesitancy on the topic. So I think with all three of these together I'm going to stick on Csargo for a bit longer.

[Visor]

I think my "it doesn't read like Dya really wants to be here" read is accurate after her latest stint. My concern is that if there's some real life exhaustion going on then it doesn't necessarily make it alignment indicative. I really struggle with situations like this. For example I could see making the argument that DyaScum has been putting in a halfhearted effort to make an Ara read out of some feeling of obligation for her team even thought she doesn't want to post and being correct about it. I could see making the argument that DyaTown would use the thread more as a hangout and just chat to decompress and being correct about it.

But I don't think either of those things necessarily have to be true so I just sit here unsure what to do. I feel kind of similar with Ampharos' "oog poor state of mind" post. I want to push both of them because I think both have reasonable scum potential but I'm also hesitant to do so further and am just hoping they start feeling it. I think it's the issue of wanting them to be town so we can vibe.

I think my feelings of CsargoScum have strengthened after Mont's wall agreeing with me. Having someone that's had experience playing with Csargo nodding along helps me with my hesitancy on the topic. So I think with all three of these together I'm going to stick on Csargo for a bit longer.

yeah i was wondering if you were gonna say something like this.

i wholeheartedly agree.

if i was picking people who certainly seem like they don't want to be here for whatever reason, dya/amy would be first cabs off the rank. now i think this can be oog stuff and they can just be having an off game because of that but i'm struggling to village read either based on posts if i'm really honest. i feel kinda hemmed in because i both think they are wolfy and also think that they also have oog stuff that is affecting their play which would make sense.

[Ephemeral]

sup eph

wheres your head at?

on my shoulders hopefully

I'm currently trying to figure out how good the odds of having most/all wolves in a pool of like

Amy
Dya
Manti
GH
Csargo
Montmorency
Manasi

(not ordered)

what do ya think

[Visor]

on my shoulders hopefully

I'm currently trying to figure out how good the odds of having most/all wolves in a pool of like

Amy
Dya
Manti
GH
Csargo
Montmorency
Manasi

(not ordered)

what do ya think

i don't have any real read on manti but i can't say i disagree with this list

i don't think hally/cuth are wolves, i think you seem to be posting like you were in the later stages of rocks fall game. i think sunbaes pushes are fine. i think ara is fine.

i will say idk how to deal with dolby/esooa

i can believe pzelda is a villa

[Ephemeral]

kinda surprised dolby dropped off as he did

i'll be around if anyone wants to bounce stuff off

dolby dropoff is also a thing ye

thonk

[Ephemeral]

i don't have any real read on manti but i can't say i disagree with this list

i don't think hally/cuth are wolves, i think you seem to be posting like you were in the later stages of rocks fall game. i think sunbaes pushes are fine. i think ara is fine.

i will say idk how to deal with dolby/esooa

i can believe pzelda is a villa

lol i definitely need to take a sabbatical from ww if I'm still posting like I was in rocks fall :p

[Visor]

lol i definitely need to take a sabbatical from ww if I'm still posting like I was in rocks fall :p

i think your gameplay switched midgame in rocks fall

its weird :P

[Ampharos]

Slank cover.

[Esooa]

yo.

[Zack]

Official Tally as of #779

3 Csargo (Sunbae, Arapocalypse, ColonelLubriderm)
3 dyachei (Ampharos, Ephemeral, Hally)

2 Ampharos (Visor, pzelda)
2 Cuthillius (Maple, Esooa)

1 Dolby (Csargo)
1 Ephemeral (GeneralHankerchief)
1 GeneralHankerchief (Cuthillius)
1 pzelda (Montmorency)

Not Voting: Dolby, dyachei, Manasi

thunderously calm

[ColonelLubriderm]

Remember when I was hard on the Dolby villa train, those were the days

[Visor]

sup bop

wheres your head at

thoughts on amy/dya/sunbae/gh>

[ColonelLubriderm]

Hally
Esooa

Visor

Cuth
Ara
Sunbae
Pzelda

GH

————— above here be town

Dolby
Montmorency
Ephemeral

Maple
Manasi
Dya
————— below be wolves

Ampharos
Csargo


Where I’m at, GH is currently straddling that line shimmying back and forth down it

[ColonelLubriderm]

Sick xpost.

[Visor]

nice

talk to me about csar and amp then?

[ColonelLubriderm]

nice

talk to me about csar and amp then?

Csar I feel like I’ve talked a bunch about today between their early posting and this afternoon. Tl;dr not jiving with them.

Amp I’ve been concerned about since sunbae said they were different than previously. I don’t mind dya vote but I would think there would be more to say about it than basically “I wish everyone else wasn’t so villagy” (which is how I interpreted how the6 expressed their inability to throw their vote around). Their wim doesn’t match the mindset and I believe sunbae said it best(if not sun then sorry whoever said it for not crediting) when said that it feels like they don’t want to be here.

[ColonelLubriderm]

Sunbae should probably be with GH but the heart wants what it wants

[Dolby]

ay,

gonna devote until :45 before sleeping

[ColonelLubriderm]

I just looked at Dolby join date and now realized they aren’t someone from here I just don’t know but more likely someone I do know.

[pzelda]

Good morning,
It will take me some time to post everything I want, but let me share my thoughts on Csargo. I feel like Csargo's posts and opinions might be towny despite being awkward. If you follow his posts, they're very much influenced by what had been overall atmosphere in the thread before the post. I think that as wolf he would be more out of touch (also, that's why I don't tr Monty's contrarian takes).

[ColonelLubriderm]

Should also note that ara/pzelda spots on my list are more because people think they are villagy and I’m going with it.

For now

[Dolby]

Good morning,
It will take me some time to post everything I want, but let me share my thoughts on Csargo. I feel like Csargo's posts and opinions might be towny despite being awkward. If you follow his posts, they're very much influenced by what had been overall atmosphere in the thread before the post. I think that as wolf he would be more out of touch (also, that's why I don't tr Monty's contrarian takes).

Hey Zelda

Would you say that Monty's performance as maf in Princes was typical for him or is he more able to post well as maf than that?

[Esooa]

wait does it not show the quotes a person is quoting when you ISO them?

[pzelda]

Hey Zelda

Would you say that Monty's performance as maf in Princes was typical for him or is he more able to post well as maf than that?

I have no idea. I'm trying not to rely on meta too heavily. I think this might be on par with his performance there, tho.

[Dolby]

wait does it not show the quotes a person is quoting when you ISO them?

If you're ISOing me I have a few posts quoted if it helps


I have no idea. I'm trying not to rely on meta too heavily. I think this might be on par with his performance there, tho.

Bolded: ok makes sense

I kinda tunneled him D1 but I feel that he was pretty obvious throughout that whole game personally

[Dolby]

Sunbae radiating town vibes and that's probably the best explanation that you can get from me rn despite them having quite a few longish posts that I've seen and could analyze.

Ara kinda parkouring her read on me is kinda good and feels like natural progression since she's reacting to each post individually and I feel that for mafia it's more natural to find a take and stick with it

Eph has all the same overall takes I have at this point (~200)

The anime car transformation is... something else

Melded with Hally again that the reasoning in #297 isn't compelling. I guess you could say that Eph is going over the radar bc their posts seem to sift past my mind more than most but they have novel takes. Fwiw I think that that GH post is kinda slightly making me breaking away from my concern specifically about the me/Esooa non w/w take which I felt at the time was him trying to run away with the read at that moment. And also I kinda feel the same way as I do as about Pizza on D1 in this specific where all his scumreads were clearly influenced by his Bianca tunnel and he never acknowledged that until D2.


eh, i did like him forcing that read on hally early game, seemed the kind of silly earlygame villa stuff

but its too early for me to feel confident in any of these reads really)
I had a read on Hally early game?
Think that's news to me

#337 Monty isn't mafia bc of the epic among us reference


Let’s play mason/roleblock/kill

I’ll start

Dolby/csargo/ TBD but manasi for the laughs
Ok this take is hot


I'm fairly behind but some early thoughts.

I disagree with GH on Dolby, but not entirely. I think that Dolby going deeper and using previous games is within his town range, but the use and dependence on it should be questioned. I guess it's a good look for Esooa always.

Dya sounded forced in her sod interactions.
Sunbae commenting on them being out of wolf range bothers me a little.

It might take me longer to catch up and play as I have some work in the afternoon, but I should be fairly active in the evening.

First bolded, I don't like this given how early in day this is. I think the only two reads I really expressed were I felt Esooa slightly t for being a bit snarky about the mason thing, and Monty for not being fully capitalized WHACK. Those aren't really reads I'm going to hold for meta reasons a significant part into the game. I guess my problem with this is that all of my prior occur in like the first 3 hours of the game iirc?

Ok I think this is fine given one of Pzelda's most recent posts

Second bolded, I should probably look into this but I imagine that it's probably Sunbae shitposting and not serious?

I don't think I like reads on me/GH interactions which only give a read on one of us

Pzelda has a segment where he switches his read on GH to town in 21 minutes and that's good from my gut since it does establish some consistency with not liking my posts for meta reasons, I think that he could agree somewhat with GH's initial interpretation. I want him to actually talk about his Monty sus though. I have seen nothing substantive and I'm reading normal far Monty


I might need to explain, why I got slightly defensive after Visor called me wolfbro. It comes after a reasonable vote on Monty (what's your read there, Visor? I can't recall it), who has a solid chance of flipping wolf after these disastrous posts from earlier. It comes without an explanation, just a cool laid-back call out. The other thing is that Visor feels slightly more focused on looking like town, posting a thin read from time to time. These reads are mostly non-committal.

So, my new mehcore ordered:
Monty, Dya, Amharos, Visor, Dolby

This is bad

1. Continues to not explain Monty read. Monty's posts certainly weren't disasterous. Dude isn't even whack in lowercase at this point
2. Adds Amp to mehcore after he makes a post thats kinda at odds with putting Amp in mehcore. Except for the Visor comment I'd expect to see Amp slotted in null, but the Amp/Visor comment also was kinda bad bc I think it's them just joshing around.
3. OMGUS is not really with my vision of pzelda

Colonel/GH talk enough to probably not be teammates. Both individually can be fine_TM

Pzelda just continueing to say "kill Monty, kill Monty" and it's making me question if I skipped a post. I think the most reasoning he gave was "disasterous posts" and for Monty and in general Monty's posting has been alright. This is kinda reductionist, outside the Amp/Visor thing I think his other takes have been not hair-raising thus far. Maybe I did skip something but I'm tired. Cutting off at 510

My brain is mush but it's saying gh's 449 is town for some reason

Eh I'll end here and stay up til 3:15

[pzelda]

Should also note that ara/pzelda spots on my list are more because people think they are villagy and I’m going with it.

For now

You questioning townreads on Ara is something I wanted to respond to. One there's a difference between you doing that (and your progression on the slot) and Amy just calling out early townreads on Sunbae. It's a tonal difference and I believe there's also a difference of purpose. You wanted to sort out your own thoughts, because you couldn't see reasons for which other people put her in town zone. Amy questioned reads of other people without doing a whole lot of evaluation themselves. Also, I'm keeping my vote on them for now, because their newer posts don't make them look better as they're still not trying to make it clear where they are at.
I don't have Ara as a strong/lock town but her posts are enough for me to put her outside of possible for today. Ara's usually difficult to read, esp early on. I haven't seen any disruptive actions or agenda from her so far and I think that her being wary of jumping on conclusions is her usual self too.



I kinda tunneled him D1 but I feel that he was pretty obvious throughout that whole game personally

Does it mean you don't find him obvious here? I find your take little too reserved for my liking.

[Dolby]

The posts I’ve seen from him are pretty early game and I thought they were all fine. In Princes I thought he was howling from first posts. I don’t understand why you have him in a wolf slot outside you thinking his posts are disaster OSU bc ???

[Dolby]

Eh

Vote: pzelda

Maybe an isolated bad tunnel but I don’t like what I’m seeing here.

Will read the other 300 posts tomorrow

[Ephemeral]

i think your gameplay switched midgame in rocks fall

its weird :P

it did ye, I forced a shutdown after d1 and pressed the reset button

never fully got there on an emotional level but I did start finding some degree of consistency later on

having the correct image on the mech side of things def helped too

[Esooa]

Eh

Vote: pzelda

Maybe an isolated bad tunnel but I don’t like what I’m seeing here.

Will read the other 300 posts tomorrow

it is a bad tunnel

[Ephemeral]

Slank cover.

:stare:

[Ephemeral]

Slank cover.

:stare:

[Ephemeral]

uh double post?

sorry about that smh

[Ephemeral]

sup esooa

got anything you wanna talk about?

[Esooa]

sup esooa

got anything you wanna talk about?

how long u gonna be here?

[Ephemeral]

how long u gonna be here?

no clue, took a short break from money heist to eat lunch and now I'm just vibing for a bit

[Esooa]

no clue, took a short break from money heist to eat lunch and now I'm just vibing for a bit

I didn't realize EoD was so close and I don't really have any scum reads I feel comfortable about so I've been re-reading the game (only started like ~10 minutes ago though)

who are your say, top 3 scum rn?

[pzelda]

I haven't reread GH yet, because I can't figure out how to iso players, but It's time to elaborate on why he's in my towncore (for today and d2).
1)Posts - I think GH's posts are just towny enough. He actually has less reads than some other players and outside of making early cases on Emp and Dolby, he was way more minimalist, when explaining his town reads. I also find it that he has more nulls than he would have to. The content of his posts is alright. He's building in them and progressing the game and you can see that he's evaluating at least some of his reads.
2)Activity+Votes - GH painted a sizable target at his back, when he made the scumread on Dolby super early. I think wolf GH would approach the game in a slower pace, not hurrying to get unwanted attention and spewing several players town. His vote on Amy and returning to Eph are both weaker. I think that they make Cuth's vote on GH reasonable. He kinda blindly folllowed Visor and then steered away from this to his vanity wolfread, when nothing was happening. But I also think (and I might be wrong here), that wolf GH would get pressured more for his actions.
There's still a lot to think about tbh.

Also, I progressed some of my reads.
Tiers:
VVV - Colonel, Hally, Esooa
VV - Cuth, General, Visor, Sunbae
V - Csargo, Ara, Manasi, Maple
W - Monty, Ephemeral, Dya
WW - Amy, Dolby
WWW

GH is my lowest townread in towncore after reconsidering him.
Monty's actually higher now, because of Dolby and his tmi-ish post. I won't break down Monty's posts today, but I might do it tomorrow. I think that right now I would be getting into dolby/monty/GH associations too much.
Maple and Manasi are townleans for vibes. For content, they would be waffles as they haven't made many meaningful contributions.

[Ephemeral]

I didn't realize EoD was so close and I don't really have any scum reads I feel comfortable about so I've been re-reading the game (only started like ~10 minutes ago though)

who are your say, top 3 scum rn?

manti
gh
dya(?)

would probably add amy with a question mark just like dya because they have external reasons which could affect their play

[Esooa]

manti
gh
dya(?)

would probably add amy with a question mark just like dya because they have external reasons which could affect their play

have you explain the manti read?

[Ephemeral]

have you explain the manti read?

made post on it early ye

feelings haven't changed

[pzelda]

The posts I’ve seen from him are pretty early game and I thought they were all fine. In Princes I thought he was howling from first posts. I don’t understand why you have him in a wolf slot outside you thinking his posts are disaster OSU bc ???

I think that his posts being more disruptive than anything else is enough to have him as a sr. There are two more concrete reasons. His votes are going completely against the consensus. They have no chance of succeeding and, in case of Hally, he had no good reason. In case of his vote on me, his reasoning was vaguer than I would like it to be. Also, I disliked his meta shade on GH. I admit his newer posts are better constructed, but I haven't find anything 100% towny in them yet (I admit I skimmed over spoilered parts).

[Visor]

manti
gh
dya(?)

would probably add amy with a question mark just like dya because they have external reasons which could affect their play

talk to me about manti

[pzelda]

I feel like questioning GH now could lead to me becoming chaotic. It's not out of realm of possibilities that he's a wolf, but I partially sheeped his scumreads. I don't think Eph is in risk of getting eliminated today. GH being a wolf would spew Cuth, Eph and Visor town. Maybe even Amy and Dolby (but Dolby not responding to GH's case and GH jumping back to Amy makes this questionable). I don't want to go there now. Losing town GH would be a greater disaster than letting wolf GH live longer.
I probably won't be very active between now and eod, but I want to reread the thread overnight and focus on Dolby, Monty and GH, while reading it.

[Esooa]

mmm

I'm having some trouble finding the right words to express this but

I think he's trying too hard and it feels unnatural

It's kind of like he's trying to put a different spin to what he was doing in rocks inv while doing the same thing

lolwords

Can you talk about this more Eph? If I'm understanding it right, you're saying he's posting more reads and such to contrast with how he was scum read for fluffing too much day 1 of rocks, right? But I don't understand the "while doing the same thing" part

[Ephemeral]

Can you talk about this more Eph? If I'm understanding it right, you're saying he's posting more reads and such to contrast with how he was scum read for fluffing too much day 1 of rocks, right? But I don't understand the "while doing the same thing" part

idt he was wolf read in rocks for shitposting? At least I definitely didn't wolf read him for that in rocks

and him posting more reads isn't the issue here, it's the fact that it doesn't feel like he believes them nor does he try to do anything with it

[Esooa]

idt he was wolf read in rocks for shitposting? At least I definitely didn't wolf read him for that in rocks

and him posting more reads isn't the issue here, it's the fact that it doesn't feel like he believes them nor does he try to do anything with it

ah, maybe it just stands out to me the most cause that's what I gathered was the biggest reason he was wagoned EoD1 and I mostly agreed with it at the time

[Ephemeral]

Maple

talk to me uwu

[Ephemeral]

talk to me about manti

cute green eyes

fluffy cat ears

[GeneralHankerchief]

my convo with gh from earlier was unsatisfactory as a whole

felt like he was just answering my qs for the sake of answering as opposed to actively being interested in moving it forward to get a better feel of where I was at/what I was doing

Doesn't feel like he's actually trying to gauge me to get a better grasp of my alignment

:shrug:


all good, I'm binging money heist and its gotten me sleep deprived so I'll probably be pretty inconsistent with my response time too :p

Talk to me about manti

And I'd appreciate more on Dolby because I really don't see what you're seeing there


I wasn't the one who made the post you're referring to w/r/t manti

I made a post about him but it was something else


I

guess your stuff on dolby is fine? As in, your process is fine

I still disagree with it and think the way he handled it was villagery though, with the caveat that I haven't seen dolby wolf before so if there's a meta telling aspect to it then idk


Ah, right, it was this one.

Again, levels. Still doesn't do much for me at this time really.


Not really sure what you mean by levels in this instance

Not exactly sure how I was supposed to meet this standard when you were the one who initiated conversation, asked me about exactly Manti, and then the conversation petered out naturally, but sure. At least the unsatisfactory feeling was mutual!

(I skimmed everything this morning while half-asleep but just wanted to highlight this, will go back and fully reread the overnights in a little while)

[Esooa]

@gh hi

can you give me your current read on eph?

[Ephemeral]

Not exactly sure how I was supposed to meet this standard when you were the one who initiated conversation, asked me about exactly Manti, and then the conversation petered out naturally, but sure. At least the unsatisfactory feeling was mutual!

(I skimmed everything this morning while half-asleep but just wanted to highlight this, will go back and fully reread the overnights in a little while)

I mean I engaged you on a few things I was interested in hearing about from you back then, which you did indeed answer to

But seeing as I'm a slot of interest for you I would've expected you to have some questions to press on of your own, and even if you didn't have anything specific in mind I still think you would've shown more interest in engaging actively rather than just answering the questions you were asked and moving on

know what I mean?

[GeneralHankerchief]

@gh hi

can you give me your current read on eph?

Every read is the same as it was in my posted readslist from around 9 hours ago pending my overnight reread + deep thoughts.

(In this case, I think he's mafia)

[Maple]

Maple

talk to me uwu

If you don't village read me by like day 4 or 5 I'm going to self vote and have you lynched
I don't actually give a shit about your read in gh and I because it's obviously a reflection of our recent game history and doesn't reflect on this current game much at all.





If eph ends the day voting me, lynch him d2 <3 Visor Sunbae

[Maple]

This is a bad read

Amy saying "slank cover" is >rand v

This may not make sense but I'll will this into existence

[Maple]

If you don't village read me by like day 4 or 5 I'm going to self vote and have you lynched
I don't actually give a shit about your read in gh and I because it's obviously a reflection of our recent game history and doesn't reflect on this current game much at all.





If eph ends the day voting me, lynch him d2 <3 Visor Sunbae

Rational: ita Tuesday and eod is today. If eph tries to kill me d1 Tuesday, he's outed. Thank

[Esooa]

god I still have 500 posts to catch up on lol

[GeneralHankerchief]

A question for the thread at large: If dya ends up being chopped today and flips red, can I be treated as spewed town for forgetting to include them in my reads list from last night?

A follow-up question: If the answer is "you could have been until you directly pointed this out", can I be treated as spewed town anyway?

[Esooa]

from my reread that is

[Maple]

Hally
Esooa

Visor

Cuth
Ara
Sunbae
Pzelda

GH

————— above here be town

Dolby
Montmorency
Ephemeral

Maple
Manasi
Dya
————— below be wolves

Ampharos
Csargo


Where I’m at, GH is currently straddling that line shimmying back and forth down it

For some reason what is standing out to me here is the placement of dya manasi and I

Idk why

[Maple]

A question for the thread at large: If dya ends up being chopped today and flips red, can I be treated as spewed town for forgetting to include them in my reads list from last night?

A follow-up question: If the answer is "you could have been until you directly pointed this out", can I be treated as spewed town anyway?

Let's go with "maybe"

[dyachei]

Hally

I don't have a read on my yet. Give me some time and I will

I do kind of like sunbae's approach to my slot, so many people are just writing me off completely but sunbae is showing some thoughts about it

[Maple]

Ampharos

Do you think it's fair of me to read this post and contrast it to the "Sunbae says nice things but he can be doing that as scum and nothing is alignment indicative" post from earlier and be confused?

To me it's come off as if you've started the game from a "posting well isn't alignment indicative" mindset that's approaching things with skepticism and hesitancy and now have shifted to a general "Eh, I'll give town reads to those that are active and figure out any deep scum later" laid back mindset. While I think both mindsets are totally fine and reasonable (I'm personally a big believer in the second one a lot of the time) I'm just a bit confused about what caused the shift between the two.

Secondary question: Can you elaborate a bit on the "p much" portion? That makes it sound like you specifically have an active poster that you don't feel is towny but I could be reading into it too much.

This is eyes emoji

[Ephemeral]

If you don't village read me by like day 4 or 5 I'm going to self vote and have you lynched
I don't actually give a shit about your read in gh and I because it's obviously a reflection of our recent game history and doesn't reflect on this current game much at all.


If eph ends the day voting me, lynch him d2 <3 Visor Sunbae

completely false on the gh read

and I don't see how that adds up even in your case where yes, recent games hold a lot of weight

[Maple]

#theTimeGHforgotDyachei

You remembered within 1 minute and made a show of it

[dyachei]

This is eyes emoji

talk about why?

[Maple]

completely false on the gh read

and I don't see how that adds up even in your case where yes, recent games hold a lot of weight

I don't care

[Esooa]

Dyachei, can you explain where your at more specifically in regards to finding it hard to get into the game? Why is that?

[Ephemeral]

I don't care

https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/sceoCtl16kDq45sDFZCFW8YUF2rZI8s_qpS0Dwwqu9c/https/i.imgur.com/SeeU9mu.png

[Maple]

talk about why?

It's a sunbae post that's sunbaeier than the last one I commented on

I don't feel like Isoing amy to verify but those sorts of "vast tonal gulf" reads are always hot

Seems a lot less fakable than the last one if true

[Maple]

You remembered within 1 minute and made a show of it

Fuck off bop stop baiting me

[dyachei]

Dyachei, can you explain where your at more specifically in regards to finding it hard to get into the game? Why is that?

I'm overcommitted with a busy work schedule and dealing with renovations (and coordinating them) at home. I can't be on when the game seems to be in full swing overnight and I usually do better with real timing. '

I'm exhausted and haven't gotten into the flow of this game

[dyachei]

I've also already said this once before

[Maple]

I'm guessing esoa is still 500 posts behind

[Maple]

I'm seeing people have more village reads than me

I don't believe yall, you're all so Wolfy

[dyachei]

I'm seeing people have more village reads than me

I don't believe yall, you're all so Wolfy

who do you think is the wolfiest?

[Esooa]

I'm guessing esoa is still 500 posts behind

I've read the whole game but I'm rereading it was what I meant lol. I stopped paying as much attention to every post cause it was taking way too much time tho

[Esooa]

I've also already said this once before

I was kinda expecting with more time you would have been able to integrate more but ig you still haven't been in thread much

[dyachei]

I was kinda expecting with more time you would have been able to integrate more but ig you still haven't been in thread much

thread got active as I needed to start wrapping up so I could get to work on time today

[Esooa]

alright where I'm getting really really tired (sorry Dya lmao I feel bad for leaving immediately after you say that) but here's where I'm at. Tiers not ordered

Town

Arapocalypse-I like some stuff from them, dislike some. I like their reads for the most part in p#501. Most specifically saying Amy's entry wasn't bad, contrary to a decent amount of others. Saying Visor was "hmm..." which I can see. I think he's town atp but the reads on him before here weren't warranted. Some things from my notes cause this is a slot I went back and forth on:

p#207 Ara claims masons with me quoting where I said I'd be pocketed by anyone who does. I feel like it could be a legitimate pocket attempt, especially because it wasn't done in real time but rather something Ara felt the need to comment on in catch up.

p#215/218 Ara first agrees with GH's Dolby thing but then reverses the read on 218. Feels real and I like the quick revaluation.

p#229 I dislike that Ara town read Sunbae for the specificity of his reads (being that something was 2/10 sketchy) because I just don't think that's very specific.

p#259 I liked Ara's point about GH; saying that he'd be more comfortable fluff posting before actually getting into it as town

Hally/Ephemeral-they've both had good tone and nice contributions, but their interactions feel very weirdly buddying to me. At the start of the game they basically agreed on every single read which just didn't feel natural to me. I am town reading them both otherwise though so maybe it's nothing
pzelda
Sunbae-the early town reads weren't warranted imo but I liked p#492 pretty decently

Null
Visor-I haven't given him enough attention. I read all the posts in this game but the past ~300 I've all read while playing league/watching anime with people so haven't given them the thought I need lol. Lightly towny from my catchup to ~post 500 but that's all.
Cuthillius
Csargo-Csargo does feel pretty awkard to me, but I've gotten very strong town pings from a few of his posts. Most specifically p#331. Just feels very naturally inquisitive and towny.
Ampharos-Disagree with the scum reads here. Specifically the thing about Hally saying it was weird they mentioned actively trying to not get pocketed. Town reading people I like without fairly evaluating them is something I always need to be weary of and I'm pretty sure they're just mentioning that too
GeneralHankerchief-Something that stood out to me a lot was not only that GH's aggressiveness towards Dolby was weird, but the fact that Visor v read Dolby before it, and Manti said my posts seem pretty good before it. I get why Dolby using meta in his post specifically makes it stand out as probably meaning more, but I dislike how GH pointed out very strongly that nothing I said had been particularly towny, when not commenting on things such as someone saying my posts seemed good at basically the same time. In regards to GH's original vote on Eph (p#297) I can understand where he's coming from with Eph being too "blendy," as I do see a lot of potential pocketing between him/Hally, but I don't like that GH says he trusts Eph the least out of widely town read players, putting Ara over him even when I think most reasons to TR Ara at this point would be good tone, which imo Eph also strongly has

GH says he'll reval it soon after, and later posts p#396 where he agrees with Hally that he has had some unique takes. He still says he doesn't find a reason to town read Eph, which is valid, but hasn't moved his vote since which meh.
Dolby-he's alright, but nothing so towny I'd like to move him up, especially with the lack of posting. He dropped a couple walls earlier I'll get to when I wake up later and I'll think about the read more. Reminded here that I really liked Csargo pointing out Dolby's town reads were probably too strong for what he had done.
Manasi-no content lol
ColonelLubriderm

Scummy

Montmorency
dyachei
Maple-I'm dying tired so this will be the only one I explain rn. Manti has said like 5 times this game now that everyone is wolfy which I'm just ??? at. I didn't like his sheeping of GH on p#116. I didn't like how he said “I have a hidden GH thought" in p#144 because it feels performative. I didn't like his Sunbae read in p#156 where he said Sunbae was making a lot of sense, partly because I don't agree at this point, partly because Sunbae had actually taken a lot of positions different from Manti, such as having scum read GH earlier while Manti just straight sheeped GH.

Vote: Maple

:Zzzz::Zzzz::Zzzz:

[dyachei]

is lubriderm bop?

[GeneralHankerchief]

Aight I'm gonna dump all of my various concerns with Ephemeral into a single post.

Concern The First: SOD Posting. This is what initially twigged me here. The first few hours of the dayphase, you had a lot of the typical highposters doing their thing. Esooa, Eph, Hally, Ara to a lesser extent. Overall, I'd say it was a fairly townie time to be in the thread, at least from feel. Hally was being their usual town self (having rolled mafia against them 3 times since November, I am acutely aware of what this looks like), Ara had enough !!!! moments that I feel like she was genuinely giving takes and saying what she felt, and Esooa was managing to keep up quite well. I freely admit that I'm holding Esooa to a lower standard than the others here, but her first ever scum game was in something like November, she knows this playerlist is generally perceived to be of high quality and also Visor, and I didn't really detect any sort of fear or anything.

To circle back to the original point, all three of Hally/Ara/Esooa, all of whom were quite active at the start, towntold in their own separate ways. Eph, to me, did not. He was part of the flow, and that's certainly not a mark against him, but that's really all he had going for him. There weren't any real eureka moments for me, and when you're that in the flow with a bunch of people who are towntelling, and you're just... not doing it yourself, that in itself is telling to me. So that's the first thing I wasn't a fan of, and while I freely admit that it's influencing the rest of my read on him in terms of baseline, it's something that I believe in.

Concern the Second: Focuses and Reads. This section will be less feels-y and more concrete. I think it's fair to say that Eph's main focus has been on Manti (aka Maple) so far. I find this focus and push to be unrealistic. He first came out against Manti in post #165 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154374-Mass-Effect-17er-Game-Thread?p=2053813640&viewfull=1#post2053813640), a time in which I don't think anybody could realistically have gotten a confident read on that slot in either direction. Manti was correctly suspected early on in the invitational, to be sure, but for starters a) not this early on, and b) I think Manti's posted differently between the games anyway. Unless he's purposely running a play or something, I normally ascribe Manti's scum game as "trying to act too much like how a normal town player would play", and I think that's what he got caught on in the invitational. Here, I don't see the same thing - he's mostly just doing Manti things so far. Clearing? Hardly. Worthy of your main focus and effort? Also no. I think Eph should be aware of this and I'm just not really seeing what he's seeing. This has been enhanced by the fact that I think Manti has gotten more townie in the past few hours. Hard to say why exactly, just specifically how he's approached things seem like his town game. So I think Eph should know better here if he's town and is repping a read that he doesn't actually have.

Furthermore, Eph's other main pushes - myself and dyachei. dya is a kind of easy push to make as either alignment, so I won't spend too much time on it. As for me, his main concern seems to be with how I approached him and interacted with him, and how I didn't really seem to be legitimately figuring out his slot in our one dialogue yesterday (Monday). Fair enough, I certainly wasn't looking to explore the full game with him or anything, but I think his pushes overall have been, well, uninspired. There doesn't seem to be much deeper thought to his pushes, moreso he's going through the motions and looking for surface-level scummy things that he can push town players for. Manti's looking like Manti? Push. I didn't really put in a satisfactory effort? Push. This is doable as either alignment, but I'm not seeing it as part of a larger effort to solve the game. Eph is shading me for not really caring about trying to solve, but he's pointing out an interaction or two with him as evidence - I think this is actually the case for him and it's more of a result of his full posting than a single specific instance.

[GeneralHankerchief]

is lubriderm bop?

Yes.

[GeneralHankerchief]

There are two interesting pairs in this game that I've noticed:

Pair 1: The "lacking" duo of Ampharos/dyachei
Both have come under heavy scrutiny here and "lackingness" has been a big part of why. For dya especially, their posts haven't been actively bad, just Not Town Dya. This can be easily explained by their given excuse and I think I'd buy it regardless of their actual alignment, but that still leaves the problem of what to do with their actual posts. As for Amy, I think her posting has been outright scummier, for her early Visor take (which I and others picked up on), and for her supposed shift in thinking w/r/t basis for reading people (which Sunbae picked up on and I don't disagree with). There's nothing here that says the two of them, Amy and dya, can't be paired, and overall I'm mostly including them here to set up a contrast between the second pair I want to talk about. If we're going here today, I think I'd go with Amy over dya due to some outright problems as opposed to overall lacking-ness, but would probably not be surprised at either of them flipping as either alignment.

Pair 2: The late wallers/pzelda haters of Montmorency/Dolby
This is the much more interesting pair to me. I didn't think to connect the two of them initially (initially as in, like, "yesterday") but they've kind of undergone a similar arc in which they're both in the outer level of the POE and threatening to fall further into contention for the chop. Then, both of them made long walls overnight where their primary pushes were pzelda. This suddenly became a topic of interest to me. pzelda is a fascinating figure in this game in general, he's not part of the typical "invitational" crowd so to speak, but a good number of us know him and have played multiple games with him in the past, myself included. Speaking personally, I have pzelda as high town, and he's generally been townshielded/"threadspewed" by a number of other players here. And yet both Monty and Dolby, both of whom also know pzelda, went after him in their overnight walls. Hmm.

For starters, this is light, but I think this soft-unaligns Monty and Dolby. I don't think I see the two of them taking this exact same approach with somebody in the consensus town. I don't have much of a history/baseline on Dolby, but Monty likes to bus as scum - or at least, he did back in the day. He likes to distance himself from his partners and take a different "lane", so to speak, and has done this to success in the past. He has also done this unilaterally and without coordination/approval from his teammates. So him taking the exact same approach as Dolby w/r/t top pushes is something that I do not think is in Monty's wheelhouse. I don't think this is on the level of "clearing for the rest of the game", but if Dolby does end up flipping red, I'm probably not reexamining Monty until, say, LYLO-1.

As for the content of both their walls, I like Monty's better. His thoughts just feel more natural and Monty-esque, whereas Dolby's strikes me as performative. Playing up the "man I'm tired and still have a lot of posts to get through" just a little too much, in addition to the overall timewarp-y nature of them and including things in there that I don't think need to be included in.

Despite this, it doesn't change my opinion on pzelda. Dude's still town.

[GeneralHankerchief]

I guess overall, and barring further developments, I'd like to chop within Eph/Dolby/[Amy if it comes to it] today as per my above walls. Amy and dya both get a courtesy of giving them time to get into things, but Amy less so because I feel like she's been somewhat actively wolfy as opposed to dya, who just hasn't really done much. I'm not interested in chopping Monty today, though I reserve the right to put him back on the table D2 depending on how things go. Neither am I interested in chopping Maple today, I feel like that would be stupid and feel like people are just kind of baseline scumreading him due to seeing him a LOT as mafia recently. I'm not seeing what they're seeing here.

Notably, Csargo is not in any of the above category. I recognize Colonel's concerns there and am not sure of where I stand on Csargo myself beyond "thinly town, probably for bad reasons". Depending on how work goes, I'm going to see about isoing a couple of games I played with Csargo in the past year or two (he was town in both of them, as was I) and see if I can't get a firmer opinion on him one way or the other. This is not a lock commitment to me doing this, but we'll see how things go.

[ColonelLubriderm]

Fuck off bop stop baiting me

when i read this in bed earlier i wiggled my bum

[GeneralHankerchief]

Aside from Manasi, who is actively not here (I have a really dumb read that she would be more present and involved as mafia, and may have just actively forgotten about the game as town - do not put any stock into this whatsoever), and dya, who I've already discussed, the two people I'm least solid on (in either direction) are Cuth and Csargo. Cuth I might just straight-up punt on until tomorrow. Csargo, will try, but I actually need to Do Things At Work for the next while.

[ColonelLubriderm]

In a 48 hour phase, I don't think any more courtesy time is needed.

I'd chop in amy/dya/csargo

i suppose i'd settle for maple but that seems just as rand as manasi.

I wouldn't fight against montecorenot/dolby/ephemeral, i'd just push someone else i'd want instead

I would protest anyone else.

[ColonelLubriderm]

I also believe manasi ahas forgotten about the game but i don't think that says anything about her alignment.

I also don't think GH should get villa cred for forgetting Dyachei, because it's alignment non indicative

[GeneralHankerchief]

If we're going between Amy and dya, I'd much rather it be Amy, simply because I think there are more active negatives for Amy than there are with dya.

[ColonelLubriderm]

If we're going between Amy and dya, I'd much rather it be Amy, simply because I think there are more active negatives for Amy than there are with dya.

i am good with this

[Maple]

We're decorating cakes today, im excited to do the carrot cake since we'll be modeling marzipan carrots

[Maple]

No cap I forgot to put both gh and Newcomb into a reads list in the rocks game d1

It happens sometimes

[Cuthillius]

manti

what's up

[pzelda]

A question for the thread at large: If dya ends up being chopped today and flips red, can I be treated as spewed town for forgetting to include them in my reads list from last night?

A follow-up question: If the answer is "you could have been until you directly pointed this out", can I be treated as spewed town anyway?

what is this even supposed to be? No and no.

[Csargo]

alright where I'm getting really really tired (sorry Dya lmao I feel bad for leaving immediately after you say that) but here's where I'm at. Tiers not ordered

Town

Arapocalypse-I like some stuff from them, dislike some. I like their reads for the most part in p#501. Most specifically saying Amy's entry wasn't bad, contrary to a decent amount of others. Saying Visor was "hmm..." which I can see. I think he's town atp but the reads on him before here weren't warranted. Some things from my notes cause this is a slot I went back and forth on:

p#207 Ara claims masons with me quoting where I said I'd be pocketed by anyone who does. I feel like it could be a legitimate pocket attempt, especially because it wasn't done in real time but rather something Ara felt the need to comment on in catch up.

p#215/218 Ara first agrees with GH's Dolby thing but then reverses the read on 218. Feels real and I like the quick revaluation.

p#229 I dislike that Ara town read Sunbae for the specificity of his reads (being that something was 2/10 sketchy) because I just don't think that's very specific.

p#259 I liked Ara's point about GH; saying that he'd be more comfortable fluff posting before actually getting into it as town

Hally/Ephemeral-they've both had good tone and nice contributions, but their interactions feel very weirdly buddying to me. At the start of the game they basically agreed on every single read which just didn't feel natural to me. I am town reading them both otherwise though so maybe it's nothing
pzelda
Sunbae-the early town reads weren't warranted imo but I liked p#492 pretty decently

Null
Visor-I haven't given him enough attention. I read all the posts in this game but the past ~300 I've all read while playing league/watching anime with people so haven't given them the thought I need lol. Lightly towny from my catchup to ~post 500 but that's all.
Cuthillius
Csargo-Csargo does feel pretty awkard to me, but I've gotten very strong town pings from a few of his posts. Most specifically p#331. Just feels very naturally inquisitive and towny.
Ampharos-Disagree with the scum reads here. Specifically the thing about Hally saying it was weird they mentioned actively trying to not get pocketed. Town reading people I like without fairly evaluating them is something I always need to be weary of and I'm pretty sure they're just mentioning that too
GeneralHankerchief-Something that stood out to me a lot was not only that GH's aggressiveness towards Dolby was weird, but the fact that Visor v read Dolby before it, and Manti said my posts seem pretty good before it. I get why Dolby using meta in his post specifically makes it stand out as probably meaning more, but I dislike how GH pointed out very strongly that nothing I said had been particularly towny, when not commenting on things such as someone saying my posts seemed good at basically the same time. In regards to GH's original vote on Eph (p#297) I can understand where he's coming from with Eph being too "blendy," as I do see a lot of potential pocketing between him/Hally, but I don't like that GH says he trusts Eph the least out of widely town read players, putting Ara over him even when I think most reasons to TR Ara at this point would be good tone, which imo Eph also strongly has

GH says he'll reval it soon after, and later posts p#396 where he agrees with Hally that he has had some unique takes. He still says he doesn't find a reason to town read Eph, which is valid, but hasn't moved his vote since which meh.
Dolby-he's alright, but nothing so towny I'd like to move him up, especially with the lack of posting. He dropped a couple walls earlier I'll get to when I wake up later and I'll think about the read more. Reminded here that I really liked Csargo pointing out Dolby's town reads were probably too strong for what he had done.
Manasi-no content lol
ColonelLubriderm

Scummy

Montmorency
dyachei
Maple-I'm dying tired so this will be the only one I explain rn. Manti has said like 5 times this game now that everyone is wolfy which I'm just ??? at. I didn't like his sheeping of GH on p#116. I didn't like how he said “I have a hidden GH thought" in p#144 because it feels performative. I didn't like his Sunbae read in p#156 where he said Sunbae was making a lot of sense, partly because I don't agree at this point, partly because Sunbae had actually taken a lot of positions different from Manti, such as having scum read GH earlier while Manti just straight sheeped GH.

Vote: Maple

:Zzzz::Zzzz::Zzzz:

Is there any reason you don't have thoughts on ColonelL or Cuth at this point?

[pzelda]

Nice walls, GH. I have another video call ahead of me, but I get around to them after that.
I'm sure Dya is busy and tired. Unfortunately, complaining about IRL circumstances doesn't make her town (also, it used to be Dya's mafia meta, when I started playing at MU. That said She's a way better player now than she was three years ago).

[dyachei]

i complain about rl as both alignments just fyi.

I'm just super busy and it makes being in the thread here a challenge

[Arapocalypse]

Two things: I feel like the threadstate feels more comfortable than it should be? By this, I mean confidence level in particular when considering that post a while ago where someone had an "all mafia are within these group of people" which felt rather pre-emptive simply due to the amount of stuff we've had so far this game!!!

Quick question to everyone in the thread: if you were wrong about a read, which read do you think you have wrong? One of your more confident reads, not your nulls!!

[dyachei]

Two things: I feel like the threadstate feels more comfortable than it should be? By this, I mean confidence level in particular when considering that post a while ago where someone had an "all mafia are within these group of people" which felt rather pre-emptive simply due to the amount of stuff we've had so far this game!!!

Quick question to everyone in the thread: if you were wrong about a read, which read do you think you have wrong? One of your more confident reads, not your nulls!!

you

after anni, I'm probably calling you a villa lean too easily

[ColonelLubriderm]

Two things: I feel like the threadstate feels more comfortable than it should be? By this, I mean confidence level in particular when considering that post a while ago where someone had an "all mafia are within these group of people" which felt rather pre-emptive simply due to the amount of stuff we've had so far this game!!!

Quick question to everyone in the thread: if you were wrong about a read, which read do you think you have wrong? One of your more confident reads, not your nulls!!

sunbae

[GeneralHankerchief]

dya, any thoughts on Colonel now that you know he's bop?


Two things: I feel like the threadstate feels more comfortable than it should be? By this, I mean confidence level in particular when considering that post a while ago where someone had an "all mafia are within these group of people" which felt rather pre-emptive simply due to the amount of stuff we've had so far this game!!!

Quick question to everyone in the thread: if you were wrong about a read, which read do you think you have wrong? One of your more confident reads, not your nulls!!

If I'm wrong about a confident townread: you

If I'm wrong about a scumread: Dolby

[Zack]

Raskolnikov is replacing Ampharos effective immediately.

Don't discuss substitutions and so forth

[GeneralHankerchief]

Raskolnikov is replacing Ampharos effective immediately.

Don't discuss substitutions and so forth

Welcome Rask!

Also I notably misread Rask the last game we were in together so I'm not sure how helpful I'll be here.

[Cuthillius]

Two things: I feel like the threadstate feels more comfortable than it should be? By this, I mean confidence level in particular when considering that post a while ago where someone had an "all mafia are within these group of people" which felt rather pre-emptive simply due to the amount of stuff we've had so far this game!!!

Quick question to everyone in the thread: if you were wrong about a read, which read do you think you have wrong? One of your more confident reads, not your nulls!!

I disagree, I don't think there's been a general consensus to any degree approaching that of rocks; while individual people have said they think all the wolves are within a specific pool I haven't gotten the impression that there are many people who are general blind spots or that people's reads are lining up to an unusual or unhealthy degree.

The village read I'm most uncertain about is probably Eph, because I think he deserves more credit than he gets for his play, but I have a lot of people who are still fairly unsorted and I don't think I've really forced myself to come to any conclusions consciously or subconsciously this game so I'm both pretty happy with where I'm at in terms of town reads and think there's plenty of wiggle room.

[dyachei]

dya, any thoughts on Colonel now that you know he's bop?



If I'm wrong about a confident townread: you

If I'm wrong about a scumread: Dolby

no but it makes sense?

did you forget me or did he?

[GeneralHankerchief]

no but it makes sense?

did you forget me or did he?

I forgot to put you in the readslist, he's the one who pointed it out.

You asked if Colonel was bop earlier so I assume that impacted your thoughts on the matter. How does it make sense, specifically?

[Arapocalypse]

You remembered within 1 minute and made a show of it
You got duped by the avatars; Bop reminded him, not GH!!!

[Csargo]

Heyo Rask!

[ColonelLubriderm]

https://media1.giphy.com/media/VI3FF0PiuJBDVJXS5P/giphy.gif?cid=ecf05e4760id12r4fgilmgs42im014y344r5emke90q8bxng&rid=giphy.gif

[Arapocalypse]

I disagree, I don't think there's been a general consensus to any degree approaching that of rocks; while individual people have said they think all the wolves are within a specific pool I haven't gotten the impression that there are many people who are general blind spots or that people's reads are lining up to an unusual or unhealthy degree.

The village read I'm most uncertain about is probably Eph, because I think he deserves more credit than he gets for his play, but I have a lot of people who are still fairly unsorted and I don't think I've really forced myself to come to any conclusions consciously or subconsciously this game so I'm both pretty happy with where I'm at in terms of town reads and think there's plenty of wiggle room.
I wasn't actually thinking about Rocks when I was making this post; not something that happens often!!

Regardless, I'm not really talking about an overall consensus, though I guess there's been a bit of that? Feels like just a lot of individual confidence that might become an issue later on!!!

Personally, I wouldn't be overly surprised to see any of my reads being wrong, except maybe... Dolby? Quite possibly Sunbae too, with his recent posts!!

[dyachei]

I forgot to put you in the readslist, he's the one who pointed it out.

You asked if Colonel was bop earlier so I assume that impacted your thoughts on the matter. How does it make sense, specifically?

with who would be parodying you that well. And keeping it up to some degree. and I usually read bop in later days. like when he isn't dead on d3

[Cuthillius]

I wasn't actually thinking about Rocks when I was making this post; not something that happens often!!

Regardless, I'm not really talking about an overall consensus, though I guess there's been a bit of that? Feels like just a lot of individual confidence that might become an issue later on!!!

Personally, I wouldn't be overly surprised to see any of my reads being wrong, except maybe... Dolby? Quite possibly Sunbae too, with his recent posts!!

I'm more wondering if you feel like individual people are solidifying worlds at a faster rate than you'd expect. My impression has been a lot of the people who tend to jump to conclusions have been doing so, but it's not a thread-wide thing nor do I feel like people who don't tend to lock in on specific PoEs early are doing so at a higher rate or vice versa.

[Ephemeral]

Two things: I feel like the threadstate feels more comfortable than it should be? By this, I mean confidence level in particular when considering that post a while ago where someone had an "all mafia are within these group of people" which felt rather pre-emptive simply due to the amount of stuff we've had so far this game!!!

Quick question to everyone in the thread: if you were wrong about a read, which read do you think you have wrong? One of your more confident reads, not your nulls!!

on one of my stronger villa leans, probably dolby

on one of my wolves, probably manti

[GeneralHankerchief]

I've skimmed Csargo's iso in both of the recent games I've played with him (we were town in both). I've linked them here before, but will do so again:
- Generic Fantasy Mafia (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/153989-04-12-Generic-Fantasy-WW-Game-Thread) (the .Org, December 2019)
- Red John Mafia (https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/28115-Red-John-mafia) (CFC section of MU, September 2020)

In Red John, Csar is quite townie out of the gate and I was able to read him as such pretty much the entire way through (minus a quick hiccup on my end that was quickly corrected), and then he eventually dunked on a flawed claim by the penultimate mafia late on in the game to seal the correct chop. Not seeing a lot of that here, but he also subbed in on D2 (which I did not remember before this) so he did have a base of data to already form reads with.

The more instructive iso, IMO, is Generic Fantasy. He was in from the start, it's a somewhat similar playerlist, it took place on the .Org, etc. The depths of his reads in Generic Fantasy are closer to what they are here than in Red John, but still not entirely the same. Here's an example of some of his larger, "view from 10,000 feet" posts early in the game for both:

Generic Fantasy:

I'm still reading through the thread, I've had a busy few days, but my impressions so far:

Zack's opening was strong, but that's to be expected, Zack's a strong player. I'm hesitant to prematurely say he's town, but everything points in that direction. He spews sunshine and rainbows.

Empoof seems in a similar vein to Zack, nothing gives me pause about their play so far. Though I'm not familiar with Empoof's play in general, but from my perspective it's all been good so far.

I'm okay with merl1n, Insaner, and Logic overall. I don't particularly think Insaner's "I'm townier, answer my question." was productive, but to each their own. Other than that I haven't read anything from Insaner that would make me think negatively. merl1n just seems pure and engaged, it's refreshing, nothing negative to say about any of their contributions honestly. Logic's opening was meh, but his recent postings were pretty good I thought, and that makes me think he's town.

I agree with Zack's meta read of Barto's behavior, generally I'd expect Barto to vote Insaner there. It probably doesn't mean much, but it seemed cautious to me, which is unexpected from Barto. I might be reading too much into it though.

GH's opening bothered me initially, a bit generic maybe? or just fell flat with me I'm not sure exactly how to describe it. Plus his interaction with Zack about Insaner seemed odd to me. I generally agree with what he posted this morning, so I'm a bit torn overall about how to feel.

Monty is an enigma. I'm not sure how to feel about him currently.

I don't have much else, but I'll continue reading.

This game:

I don't really have strong thoughts on very many people. I think Visor/Dolby are performing below my expectations of them, judging by past experience. They're usually more obviously town, pretty quickly, so I think they're underwhelming at present.

I'm thinking that pzelda is probably town, because the thoughts and how he's processing people are eerily similar to last game.

I think Esooa, GH, Hally, you, and Cuth are okay.

The rest I don't have particularly strong thoughts either way on.


pzelda>Esooa>GH>Cuth,you, Hally.

I can't really explain the zelda read any better. Other than from last game to this game looks the same to me, so I don't think it's hard to infer that zelda's probably town here. I don't have much to say about the other's that I haven't already said somewhere else.

Cuth, Ara, Hally are just people I felt okay with from skimming the thread, I don't really have anything to point to, to say why exactly. Just that they were people who seemed good to me. I don't want to think about it too much tbh.

I don't understand your second question if I'm honest. Dolby's usually pretty clear-cut and has well thought-out insights regarding the game. This just looks really messy to me. I dunno, it's not really that good of an argument, but ~:shrug:

There's just less confidence, less depth overall. It could be partially explained by different life situations between then and now, a different gamestate/way things are shaping up (for starters, I do not believe this game will be nearly as easy as Generic Fantasy, which was a town stomp), anything really... or it could be because he's mafia. It's not fully damning, but it's not something I can entirely ignore and sweep under the rug either.

CONCLUSION: I'm fine with Csargo going in the POE. I'll still feel kinda bad about it, but yeah.

[Raskolnikov]

Heya folks.

I will try to read the thread overnight so just stop posting till I am done OK?

[Raskolnikov]

Heyo Rask!

:bow:


Welcome Rask!

Also I notably misread Rask the last game we were in together so I'm not sure how helpful I'll be here.

Last time we played, you were scums and yeeted me! (hydra game 1)
but yeah, in that Red John game, I think we both misread each other!

Anyway, feels good to be here, just need to get used to this forum again.

[Hally]

Hally

updated thoughts on amy?
i don’t really have any. her later posts didn’t do anything for me and still leave me feeling like something is missing, but i dunno how much irl stuff is contributing to that

[Hally]

Ampharos

Do you think it's fair of me to read this post and contrast it to the "Sunbae says nice things but he can be doing that as scum and nothing is alignment indicative" post from earlier and be confused?

To me it's come off as if you've started the game from a "posting well isn't alignment indicative" mindset that's approaching things with skepticism and hesitancy and now have shifted to a general "Eh, I'll give town reads to those that are active and figure out any deep scum later" laid back mindset. While I think both mindsets are totally fine and reasonable (I'm personally a big believer in the second one a lot of the time) I'm just a bit confused about what caused the shift between the two.

Secondary question: Can you elaborate a bit on the "p much" portion? That makes it sound like you specifically have an active poster that you don't feel is towny but I could be reading into it too much.
i like this take a lot

[Cuthillius]

hi hally

how do you feel about *waves hands*

[dyachei]

i don’t really have any. her later posts didn’t do anything for me and still leave me feeling like something is missing, but i dunno how much irl stuff is contributing to that

what is the difference for you between the amy slot and my slot?

you seem to be voting me but allowing for irl stuff for amy slot

[Hally]

Good morning,
It will take me some time to post everything I want, but let me share my thoughts on Csargo. I feel like Csargo's posts and opinions might be towny despite being awkward. If you follow his posts, they're very much influenced by what had been overall atmosphere in the thread before the post. I think that as wolf he would be more out of touch (also, that's why I don't tr Monty's contrarian takes).
ime the opposite tends to be true? i find wolves are more in tune with the pulse of the thread because they’re trying to blend in and ingratiate themselves to the village whereas villagers are more likely to do their own thing because they’re just trying to solve and don’t care how it looks. it’s also highly player and context dependent but as general rule i think you have it backwards

[Zack]

Official Tally as of #893

3 Csargo (Sunbae, Arapocalypse, ColonelLubriderm)
3 dyachei (Raskolnikov [formerly Ampharos], Ephemeral, Hally)

2 pzelda (Montmorency, Dolby)
2 Raskolnikov [formerly Ampharos] (Visor, pzelda)

1 Cuthillius (Maple)
1 Dolby (Csargo)
1 Ephemeral (GeneralHankerchief)
1 GeneralHankerchief (Cuthillius)
1 Maple (Esooa)

Not Voting: dyachei, Manasi

thunderously calm

[Hally]

dolby and monty wolf reading capage is baffling to me lol

[Hally]

I think that his posts being more disruptive than anything else is enough to have him as a sr. There are two more concrete reasons. His votes are going completely against the consensus. They have no chance of succeeding and, in case of Hally, he had no good reason. In case of his vote on me, his reasoning was vaguer than I would like it to be. Also, I disliked his meta shade on GH. I admit his newer posts are better constructed, but I haven't find anything 100% towny in them yet (I admit I skimmed over spoilered parts).
point of order: monty thought i was someone else (hallia) and i think was voting me as an rvs thing because he thought he knew me. i didn’t interpret that vote on me as serious

[Hally]

Esooa talk about cuth? earlier you were voting him and seemed like you wolf read him but then you put him as null in your reads list. what changed?

[Csargo]

I've skimmed Csargo's iso in both of the recent games I've played with him (we were town in both). I've linked them here before, but will do so again:
- Generic Fantasy Mafia (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/153989-04-12-Generic-Fantasy-WW-Game-Thread) (the .Org, December 2019)
- Red John Mafia (https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/28115-Red-John-mafia) (CFC section of MU, September 2020)

In Red John, Csar is quite townie out of the gate and I was able to read him as such pretty much the entire way through (minus a quick hiccup on my end that was quickly corrected), and then he eventually dunked on a flawed claim by the penultimate mafia late on in the game to seal the correct chop. Not seeing a lot of that here, but he also subbed in on D2 (which I did not remember before this) so he did have a base of data to already form reads with.

The more instructive iso, IMO, is Generic Fantasy. He was in from the start, it's a somewhat similar playerlist, it took place on the .Org, etc. The depths of his reads in Generic Fantasy are closer to what they are here than in Red John, but still not entirely the same. Here's an example of some of his larger, "view from 10,000 feet" posts early in the game for both:

Generic Fantasy:


This game:




There's just less confidence, less depth overall. It could be partially explained by different life situations between then and now, a different gamestate/way things are shaping up (for starters, I do not believe this game will be nearly as easy as Generic Fantasy, which was a town stomp), anything really... or it could be because he's mafia. It's not fully damning, but it's not something I can entirely ignore and sweep under the rug either.

CONCLUSION: I'm fine with Csargo going in the POE. I'll still feel kinda bad about it, but yeah.

I have neither the time nor the desire to invest the time necessary to get in-depth views of everyone today. I don't feel like my reads here are far off what I had in Visor's game, probably a lot less confidence here then there for experience reasons. I'm just trying to be casual tbh.

I have yet to fully delve into a few people CL, Eph, Sunbae, Monty, Maple. I thought CL and Sunbae were fine, they were good enough to not consider today anyways.

I did look over dya and I'm not sure why people want to yeet there. Is there something I'm missing here? I feel like dya's approach to the game is more townie than not imo. I feel like there's a lot of points where they could have easily acquiesced to requests, but just sort of did their own thing. Is that just something they'd do as either alignment? I don't feel like it's that bad honestly. I guess a lot of people have dya in their PoE, but I don't know if they're serious reads or just putting dya in a box for activity/effort/etc reasons.

[Sunbae]

dolby and monty wolf reading capage is baffling to me lol

I've shifted from "yeah pZelda is an obvious town" to "I think pZelda is town but I'm going to keep an eye on it because two of the people from this site (and therefore I assume the most experience with pZelda) are scumreading them". It just seems to me like something I should pay attention to.

As for other notes:

GH's pulls of Csargo posts from other games and conclusions make me continue to feel good voting there. That makes two people with experience with Csargo coming up with scumleans on the slot and I think that fits with my individual takes + my general worlview at the current time.

One tiny thing I honed in on Dolbys wall was how in one paragraph they mentioned they "Melded with Hally again" while in another paragraph saying it was news to them that Hally was a town read of theirs earlier. It might not mean much but I thought it was noteworthy as the "again" section makes it sound like they had earlier melded with Hally whereas the second line makes it sound like they never thought they did. Just seemed off to me but I think it could just be a misunderstanding on my end. I thought the rest of the wall was alright.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Sunbae, any thoughts on my Eph case?

[pzelda]

ime the opposite tends to be true? i find wolves are more in tune with the pulse of the thread because they’re trying to blend in and ingratiate themselves to the village whereas villagers are more likely to do their own thing because they’re just trying to solve and don’t care how it looks. it’s also highly player and context dependent but as general rule i think you have it backwards

yeah, you might have a point here. I guess I'm just forcing myself to townlean Csargo, because if I start tunneling him, he always flips villa. I wouldn't be surprised to see him flip wolf here I guess.
Personally, I find it difficult to stay in touch with the thread as wolf and I also find it difficult to go against consensus reads. I think Csargo's posts here are blending with the overall flow and not loud about that. So, reconsidering this he's probably closer to a wolflean with his content.

[pzelda]

dolby and monty wolf reading capage is baffling to me lol

I need to make a proper dive, but I find it that Monty's establishing vote was more likely town than Dolby's case based on me having a poor reason to suspect Monty. It feels like he might be tmi-ing Monty town.

[Hally]

GeneralHankerchief i’m reading your eph stuff but it’s not really resonating much. how much did you follow along with rocks inv after you died? i feel like some of the things you’re saying about him are similar to things that were said about him particularly in the later days of that game and the only reason he wasn’t lunched for it was because he looked good off spew. and just generally i think his villa game doesn’t really project as villagery in the same way like mine or yours does. the three times i’ve seen him village (voxx 9er, rocks inv, team game) it’s been the same thing where pretty much nobody finds him villagery. obviously i haven’t seen him wolf recently so i dunno if the same would be true of his wolf game. but like, maybe you can riff off this and talk about how your perception of eph this game meshes or doesn’t mesh with your perception of his villa game?

[Cuthillius]

eph was also in slep

[Maple]

manti

what's up

We made cream cheese icing and a French buttercream so far

[Maple]

Raskolnikov is replacing Ampharos effective immediately.

Don't discuss substitutions and so forth

F

10char

[Ephemeral]

GeneralHankerchief i’m reading your eph stuff but it’s not really resonating much. how much did you follow along with rocks inv after you died? i feel like some of the things you’re saying about him are similar to things that were said about him particularly in the later days of that game and the only reason he wasn’t lunched for it was because he looked good off spew. and just generally i think his villa game doesn’t really project as villagery in the same way like mine or yours does. the three times i’ve seen him village (voxx 9er, rocks inv, team game) it’s been the same thing where pretty much nobody finds him villagery. obviously i haven’t seen him wolf recently so i dunno if the same would be true of his wolf game. but like, maybe you can riff off this and talk about how your perception of eph this game meshes or doesn’t mesh with your perception of his villa game?

voxx 9er and rocks are awful metrics to gauge my village game by

and team game was a special case of people being bad

how are you not mentioning lets say uh, hbs(which you were also playing in)

or if you want wolf games you've got more than plenty in the last few months where I was generally lock villa for the longest time lol

[Ephemeral]

or yknow

pantheon:juggle2:

[Hally]

Two things: I feel like the threadstate feels more comfortable than it should be? By this, I mean confidence level in particular when considering that post a while ago where someone had an "all mafia are within these group of people" which felt rather pre-emptive simply due to the amount of stuff we've had so far this game!!!

Quick question to everyone in the thread: if you were wrong about a read, which read do you think you have wrong? One of your more confident reads, not your nulls!!
probably eph v just because i acknowledge i don’t really have a concrete reason to v read him other than generally vibing with his posts, but eh

[Maple]

Hardclaim vt

Your move, wolves

[Maple]

Who was the person who spilled the beans on the gh sauce? I think it was sunbae

I don't think sunbae cockscthat up w/w, just my gut feeling

[Maple]

probably eph v just because i acknowledge i don’t really have a concrete reason to v read him other than generally vibing with his posts, but eh

I have a hidden eph read

[pzelda]

I finally read GH's walls and they're good. I don't think the guy is falling off my towncore any time soon. I found myself agreeing with most of his conclusions, especially in the second post (amy/dya/monty/dolby focused). I think I would like to vote within Dolby/Rask/Csargo and I probably would join wagons on Eph/Dya if against someone who is higher in my reads. I'm seriously reconsidering Monty rn, because of Dolby mostly, but I don't think he will be a wagon today.

[Maple]

Ara feels somewhat similar to rocks in a somewhat

Superficial

Way

[Hally]

welcome rask :beam:

[Maple]

Esooa could be wolfing

They did a thing in italics

I'd say middling wolf tell.

[Maple]

If I'm a cop hally is my n0

However the only claims I'll make this game are fake mason, comms, or tracker claims, so this post doesn't mean much.

[Ephemeral]

Esooa could be wolfing

They did a thing in italics

I'd say middling wolf tell.

do tell the tell

[Maple]

I'll leave my checks in riddles

[Sunbae]

Sunbae, any thoughts on my Eph case?

I've read it and have no relevant thoughts, sorry. I think it's something I'm fine with being pursued more if you feel like it should be but I can't say I'm on board either. I thought the first section of your concerns about not towntelling in the first two hours while others did wasn't really something I think too much about. Like by that logic you should be sketchy of me too or something. The second part is something I'm unsure on as well because I personally don't feel you're an "easy" or "lazy" target to push out of the gate as scum (and in your example its eph W, gh V).

With all that said though I'm trying to keep a more ... hands off ... approach this game and just letting others do their thing after I kinda hijacked the game for two game days last time to push my own read through. So even though I don't really see it myself at the moment I'm not going to fight some pressure there and trust you enough to do your own thing.

[Hally]

hi hally

how do you feel about *waves hands*
no thoughts head empty

no but seriously, i don’t really have a read on you beyond thinking you’ve been generally agreeable. i nodded along to your stuff about esooa last night but nothing else has really made me feel anything

[Maple]

do tell the tell

I domt really want to

Out of laziness more than anything

But I'll give the cliff notes. Sadly, I don't have time to actually make it sound balling like I'd like

Esooa is in the game and posting. They have like the third or fourth most posts? They're claiming to have read and reread the game.

They post reads. The details are sparse but clustered. Village reads are easy. You've read the game, they look nice.

Their push on me.

Only 1 wolf read, and it's an easy consensus one to make.

The only one, but the sources cited are all very early into the thread. All posts cited are before post 200. In my experience, this (claim to read everything, out reads, find a rational in the beginning then make vague gestures for the rest)

Typically comes from wolves.

I do it. Others do it. It's a sign sign the shit you're saying is bullshit. It's not uncommon, and their read on me feels precisely like that. Their reads are nonoffensive and basic.

Ultimately, the read pings me. If it were d2 in a mash I'd do my song and dance of:

"Double down your read on me or rescind it or I'll [negative action/ITA/etc.] On you"; in mountainous desperado, I'd say "either shoot me or I'll shoot you", like with Para.

That's my general feeling at the moment.

[Hally]

what is the difference for you between the amy slot and my slot?

you seem to be voting me but allowing for irl stuff for amy slot
well amy got her turn in the spotlight so i wanted to pressure you some too

[Maple]

Thinking about things holistically

It's probably <rand to vote people who my feeling is "distrust"; it's probably <rand to vote people who my feelings is "forgettable.

I suppose, I should vote someone else? Idk, might vanity vote and ghost the eod; I think we might be staying late in class today, and it could go through eod

[Ephemeral]

I domt really want to

Out of laziness more than anything

But I'll give the cliff notes. Sadly, I don't have time to actually make it sound balling like I'd like

Esooa is in the game and posting. They have like the third or fourth most posts? They're claiming to have read and reread the game.

They post reads. The details are sparse but clustered. Village reads are easy. You've read the game, they look nice.

Their push on me.

Only 1 wolf read, and it's an easy consensus one to make.

The only one, but the sources cited are all very early into the thread. All posts cited are before post 200. In my experience, this (claim to read everything, out reads, find a rational in the beginning then make vague gestures for the rest)

Typically comes from wolves.

I do it. Others do it. It's a sign sign the shit you're saying is bullshit. It's not uncommon, and their read on me feels precisely like that. Their reads are nonoffensive and basic.

Ultimately, the read pings me. If it were d2 in a mash I'd do my song and dance of:

"Double down your read on me or rescind it or I'll [negative action/ITA/etc.] On you"; in mountainous desperado, I'd say "either shoot me or I'll shoot you", like with Para.

That's my general feeling at the moment.

her latest list has 3 wolf reads though?

granted she only explained the one on you but still

[Maple]

Cuths reaction to my last 3 posts should be suspicion.

[Cuthillius]

no thoughts head empty

no but seriously, i don’t really have a read on you beyond thinking you’ve been generally agreeable. i nodded along to your stuff about esooa last night but nothing else has really made me feel anything

yes yes

more gauging like

your level of comfort about the current gamestate

anything you're specifically concerned about

how your day's been

[Maple]

her latest list has 3 wolf reads though?

granted she only explained the one on you but still

Yeah, and the other two are ez consensus reads. What you're saying is the point, not a point against my feelings.

[Cuthillius]

Cuths reaction to my last 3 posts should be suspicion.

actually more the three posts before then than these

[Maple]

I think the play is to simply invert my reads

Its that easy

[Hally]

I have neither the time nor the desire to invest the time necessary to get in-depth views of everyone today. I don't feel like my reads here are far off what I had in Visor's game, probably a lot less confidence here then there for experience reasons. I'm just trying to be casual tbh.

I have yet to fully delve into a few people CL, Eph, Sunbae, Monty, Maple. I thought CL and Sunbae were fine, they were good enough to not consider today anyways.

I did look over dya and I'm not sure why people want to yeet there. Is there something I'm missing here? I feel like dya's approach to the game is more townie than not imo. I feel like there's a lot of points where they could have easily acquiesced to requests, but just sort of did their own thing. Is that just something they'd do as either alignment? I don't feel like it's that bad honestly. I guess a lot of people have dya in their PoE, but I don't know if they're serious reads or just putting dya in a box for activity/effort/etc reasons.
SHROOP (kinda)

[Maple]

actually more the three posts before then than these

I think me avoiding your questions by talking about food is par

[Maple]

SHROOP (kinda)

How so

[Ephemeral]

Yeah, and the other two are ez consensus reads. What you're saying is the point, not a point against my feelings.

my area of practice isn't in feelings unfortunately:shame:

[Maple]

Peace

[Hally]

eph was also in slep
oh, right. i seem to have blocked that game from my memory because i don’t really remember how he was there lol

[Hally]

voxx 9er and rocks are awful metrics to gauge my village game by

and team game was a special case of people being bad

how are you not mentioning lets say uh, hbs(which you were also playing in)

or if you want wolf games you've got more than plenty in the last few months where I was generally lock villa for the longest time lol
forgot about slep

have you wolfed in a small game recently? i’d like to skim one actually if you have a link

[GeneralHankerchief]

SHROOP (kinda)

Not even a little.

(will talk about your response to my Eph thing in a bit but the grammarian in me says that this is a perfectly fine sentence regardless of my other thoughts on Csargo)

[Hally]

or yknow

pantheon:juggle2:
i wasn’t in pantheon, just loosely followed it

also i don’t really care much about mash meta for this game

[Hally]

I have a hidden eph read
can you un-hide it? :tongue:

[Hally]

If I'm a cop hally is my n0

However the only claims I'll make this game are fake mason, comms, or tracker claims, so this post doesn't mean much.
subbing the N1 on manti to fake shc myself

your move willage

[Ephemeral]

forgot about slep

have you wolfed in a small game recently? i’d like to skim one actually if you have a link

I guess if you odn't wanna include hydra g2

there was that one fol game manti talked me into playing with him

https://forum.throneoflies.com/t/morphogenetic-mafia-thread-b/85541/358

game was split into 2 diff threads because big brain setupz

i was in thread b

[Cuthillius]

I think me avoiding your questions by talking about food is par

the vt claim and the ara/esooa takes

[Hally]

yes yes

more gauging like

your level of comfort about the current gamestate

anything you're specifically concerned about

how your day's been
oh, when you said *waves hands* i thought you meant like “hi pay attention to me”

uh, i dunno. my brain is like extremely mushy rn and i got very little sleep plus i’m trying to get caught up very fast because i have to go to work soon so i’m gonna parkour over this question

[Ephemeral]

the vt claim and the ara/esooa takes

he does the vt claim as either alignment fwiw

[Cuthillius]

he does the vt claim as either alignment fwiw

i'm aware

[Ephemeral]

i'm aware

:stare:

[Hally]

I guess if you odn't wanna include hydra g2

there was that one fol game manti talked me into playing with him

https://forum.throneoflies.com/t/morphogenetic-mafia-thread-b/85541/358

game was split into 2 diff threads because big brain setupz

i was in thread b
i may look at this at some point if i can withstand the agony of navigating a fol game

[Ephemeral]

i may look at this at some point if i can withstand the agony of navigating a fol game

It's actually surprisingly not that awful when you get used to discourse

unless you mean something else in which case, valid

[Csargo]

SHROOP (kinda)

I feel like it's a perfectly fine sentence. Maybe convoluted.

[GeneralHankerchief]

GeneralHankerchief i’m reading your eph stuff but it’s not really resonating much. how much did you follow along with rocks inv after you died? i feel like some of the things you’re saying about him are similar to things that were said about him particularly in the later days of that game and the only reason he wasn’t lunched for it was because he looked good off spew. and just generally i think his villa game doesn’t really project as villagery in the same way like mine or yours does. the three times i’ve seen him village (voxx 9er, rocks inv, team game) it’s been the same thing where pretty much nobody finds him villagery. obviously i haven’t seen him wolf recently so i dunno if the same would be true of his wolf game. but like, maybe you can riff off this and talk about how your perception of eph this game meshes or doesn’t mesh with your perception of his villa game?

I followed it after I died, but I didn't read read it, you know? So it's hard to say where you're coming from, really. Considering Eph himself has kind of 86'd your other references (which I am giving him zero credit for), how does the rest of my case hold up? The fact that I didn't like his pushes on Maple (particularly that early on) and me don't have anything to do with his early posting in threadflow, and I'd like to hear your thoughts about that, especially since it's somewhat along the lines of what Amy got into trouble for here.

[Sunbae]

I am hoping that there is 1 scum as most in this pool but more often 0:

Colonel, pZelda, Ara, Hally, GH,

[Ephemeral]

I followed it after I died, but I didn't read read it, you know? So it's hard to say where you're coming from, really. Considering Eph himself has kind of 86'd your other references (which I am giving him zero credit for), how does the rest of my case hold up? The fact that I didn't like his pushes on Maple (particularly that early on) and me don't have anything to do with his early posting in threadflow, and I'd like to hear your thoughts about that, especially since it's somewhat along the lines of what Amy got into trouble for here.

If you had an issue with the manti push early then why didn't you bring that up specifically back then and instead opted for vague "seems like what I remember of his wolf games" which you walked back on by citing elements(wowee)

bronana

it has zero coherence

[GeneralHankerchief]

If you had an issue with the manti push early then why didn't you bring that up specifically back then and instead opted for vague "seems like what I remember of his wolf games" which you walked back on by citing elements(wowee)

bronana

it has zero coherence

Because I didn't remember it until I read back.

[Hally]

csargo

haven’t liked any of his posts + none of the ppl who know him are v reading him (the SHROOP thing wasn’t really serious ftr)

i’m fine with giving rask and dya more time and don’t think i’d lunch anyone else really

really, really have to go now and am not sure i’ll be on again before EoD. glgl

[Ephemeral]

lol

[Ephemeral]

Vote: GeneralHankerchief

:Zzzz:

[Hally]

vote: csargo

also gh i see your response re: eph but i have no time rn so we’re gonna have to table it, sorry

really gone now

[Dolby]

I'm astounded that Ara is reading Monty as twtbaw, and that people are heavily scumreading him for his entrance. The outcome itself is probably fine in an environment where he's being either ignored or mildly sus but it's a big thonk

Csargo is fine

Monty's hard post is around the fluff level I expect it to be. Think it's just typical him. Isn't howling. He's fine

Amp's Dya vote is meh. Don't think they mentioned them before the vote?

I think it goes without saying that I think sheer volume of Pzelda townreads are bad. I dislike specifically his "don't TR Monty for contrarian takes", feels like an excuse to not progress the read. He does progress the read slightly later though saying that I've TMIed Monty town. Part of me doesn't want to accuse him of outright gaslighting, but, yeah....


I think that his posts being more disruptive than anything else is enough to have him as a sr. There are two more concrete reasons. His votes are going completely against the consensus. They have no chance of succeeding and, in case of Hally, he had no good reason. In case of his vote on me, his reasoning was vaguer than I would like it to be. Also, I disliked his meta shade on GH. I admit his newer posts are better constructed, but I haven't find anything 100% towny in them yet (I admit I skimmed over spoilered parts).
Outside one specific point everything here is fine even though I disagree with it. But you seriously going to cite his opening vote on Hally as a reason to SR him?

Eph's posting been fine.

Dya is here and I should ISO the slot since this is the first Dya post I really remember seeing (833), but they are definetely less impactful than in Ice Cream team maf D2

Kinda concerned rn about Esooa's readslist. Imo it's entirely consensus with only a few deviations (Colonel null instead of town, Maple scum and maybe Amp at null being those). The null reads to have more explanation than (most) of the town reads and scum reads. Can't say that I have an opinion on Maple but I feel like they've just been trying to vibe and have a good time with the thread. Kinda like the GH analysis in there fwiw

Like GH's 855 moreso for identifying that Amp/Dya are being pushed for being lacking. I also like the comment "His thoughts just feel (sic: more) natural and Monty-esque", it matches with what I thought of Monty's hard post, just typical of being him.

Don't like the general trend where in GH's posts it's always "dolby is just a little to X"

#899 with regards to my wall: I started by reading from post 91, but was pretty sure that up until that wall I hadn't expressed a Hally townread in the thread, or that I particularly agreed with Hally. So I thought it was weird that I was portrayed as TRing Hally. That said, I'm pretty sure that I said "mindmelded with Hally again" because I had similar thoughts to them at multiple points during my reread


I need to make a proper dive, but I find it that Monty's establishing vote was more likely town than Dolby's case based on me having a poor reason to suspect Monty. It feels like he might be tmi-ing Monty town.

Really not seeing how this is a thought at all

yeah I'm comfortable remaining here

Historically I've had bad reads on Csargo but I should look through his ISO

[dyachei]

I am hoping that there is 1 scum as most in this pool but more often 0:

Colonel, pZelda, Ara, Hally, GH,

agree about most, not sure how i feel about bop. bop is sneaky

[dyachei]

Vote: GeneralHankerchief

:Zzzz:

why gh? i really think his tone makes him way more likely to be a villager. especially compared to recent wolf games

[Raskolnikov]

OK I have a some time rn so I will ISO Csargo, Dya, and Ampharos (my slot).
Visor, pzelda: abort mission. This is a fail.

[dyachei]

ephemeral

[Zack]

Official Tally as of #963

4 Csargo (Sunbae, Arapocalypse, ColonelLubriderm, Hally)

2 GeneralHankerchief (Cuthillius, Ephemeral)
2 pzelda (Montmorency, Dolby)
2 Raskolnikov (Visor, pzelda)

1 Cuthillius (Maple)
1 Dolby (Csargo)
1 dyachei (Raskolnikov)
1 Ephemeral (GeneralHankerchief)
1 Maple (Esooa)

Not Voting: dyachei, Manasi

thunderously calm

[dyachei]

Vote: ephemeral

[Csargo]

I'm astounded that Ara is reading Monty as twtbaw, and that people are heavily scumreading him for his entrance. The outcome itself is probably fine in an environment where he's being either ignored or mildly sus but it's a big thonk

Csargo is fine

Monty's hard post is around the fluff level I expect it to be. Think it's just typical him. Isn't howling. He's fine

Amp's Dya vote is meh. Don't think they mentioned them before the vote?

I think it goes without saying that I think sheer volume of Pzelda townreads are bad. I dislike specifically his "don't TR Monty for contrarian takes", feels like an excuse to not progress the read. He does progress the read slightly later though saying that I've TMIed Monty town. Part of me doesn't want to accuse him of outright gaslighting, but, yeah....


Outside one specific point everything here is fine even though I disagree with it. But you seriously going to cite his opening vote on Hally as a reason to SR him?

Eph's posting been fine.

Dya is here and I should ISO the slot since this is the first Dya post I really remember seeing (833), but they are definetely less impactful than in Ice Cream team maf D2

Kinda concerned rn about Esooa's readslist. Imo it's entirely consensus with only a few deviations (Colonel null instead of town, Maple scum and maybe Amp at null being those). The null reads to have more explanation than (most) of the town reads and scum reads. Can't say that I have an opinion on Maple but I feel like they've just been trying to vibe and have a good time with the thread. Kinda like the GH analysis in there fwiw

Like GH's 855 moreso for identifying that Amp/Dya are being pushed for being lacking. I also like the comment "His thoughts just feel (sic: more) natural and Monty-esque", it matches with what I thought of Monty's hard post, just typical of being him.

Don't like the general trend where in GH's posts it's always "dolby is just a little to X"

#899 with regards to my wall: I started by reading from post 91, but was pretty sure that up until that wall I hadn't expressed a Hally townread in the thread, or that I particularly agreed with Hally. So I thought it was weird that I was portrayed as TRing Hally. That said, I'm pretty sure that I said "mindmelded with Hally again" because I had similar thoughts to them at multiple points during my reread



Really not seeing how this is a thought at all

yeah I'm comfortable remaining here

Historically I've had bad reads on Csargo but I should look through his ISO

How strong of a read do you have on Monty currently?

[Sunbae]

I think are almost always villagers
Hally, Ara

I am pretty sure they are villagers but they have some skepticism on them so I'll keep an eye on it
pZelda, Colonel, GH

Gut says V but I'm not confident in it
Esooa, Dya, Mont, Ephem, Cuth

Others feel good about but I'm skeptical of for a few reasons
Visor, Dolby

Few reasons to scumreads
Maple, Ampharos, Csargo

In this game
Manasi

[Hally]

hi, i have a few minutes before my shift


I have neither the time nor the desire to invest the time necessary to get in-depth views of everyone today. I don't feel like my reads here are far off what I had in Visor's game, probably a lot less confidence here then there for experience reasons. I'm just trying to be casual tbh.

I have yet to fully delve into a few people CL, Eph, Sunbae, Monty, Maple. I thought CL and Sunbae were fine, they were good enough to not consider today anyways.

I did look over dya and I'm not sure why people want to yeet there. Is there something I'm missing here? I feel like dya's approach to the game is more townie than not imo. I feel like there's a lot of points where they could have easily acquiesced to requests, but just sort of did their own thing. Is that just something they'd do as either alignment? I don't feel like it's that bad honestly. I guess a lot of people have dya in their PoE, but I don't know if they're serious reads or just putting dya in a box for activity/effort/etc reasons.
this take on dya is kinda bothering me. i don’t really get how this would be villagery for dya and i think it’s misrepresenting their play. dya hasn’t “done their own thing” in response to requests, they’ve just... done nothing. the former, yes, would be villagery maybe but the latter is NAI at best and csargo trying to stretch it into a v read is kinda nonsensical to me. i think a villager might think something like this in passing but wouldn’t really put stock into like csargo is doing. i almost wonder if he’s tmi’ing dya v here and just doesn’t really get why we’re all sussing them or if they’re w/w and he’s trying to take advantage of the thread sentiment shifting to “let’s give dya a day” to defend them a bit

i dunno, i would revisit this if either of them flips wolf

[Hally]

actually dyachei what’s your read on csargo?

[Visor]

Vote: dyachei

i'll give you some time raskol

but you got an uphill battle d2

[Hally]

alright i’m out for real

gl friendos

[dyachei]

actually dyachei what’s your read on csargo?

i liked one of their early posts. but i'm not super familiar with them so i'm probably gonna sheep someone here. I can try and read their posts but like...full schedule then my mom's birthday dinner

[Csargo]

hi, i have a few minutes before my shift


this take on dya is kinda bothering me. i don’t really get how this would be villagery for dya and i think it’s misrepresenting their play. dya hasn’t “done their own thing” in response to requests, they’ve just... done nothing. the former, yes, would be villagery maybe but the latter is NAI at best and csargo trying to stretch it into a v read is kinda nonsensical to me. i think a villager might think something like this in passing but wouldn’t really put stock into like csargo is doing. i almost wonder if he’s tmi’ing dya v here and just doesn’t really get why we’re all sussing them or if they’re w/w and he’s trying to take advantage of the thread sentiment shifting to “let’s give dya a day” to defend them a bit

i dunno, i would revisit this if either of them flips wolf

I feel like in a bigger picture sense it makes no sense at all if you're a woof. Long term it has no viability as a strategy, I feel like it's actively detrimental, if anything. If you tell me this is how dya always plays then sure I'd reconsider it. That's why I asked the question in the first place.

[Dolby]

How strong of a read do you have on Monty currently?

He's fine_TM. around 85% town if I had to put a number on it.

[Manasi]

Manasi

henlo.

Hi pal!

Sorry for the slankerino y'all been helping my parents pack for some travel but they're leaving tomorrow so I will maybe post more after that.

I tried to read posts and my eyes glazed over so we'll see what I can do with the 3 hours left in the day LOL.

[Ephemeral]

why gh? i really think his tone makes him way more likely to be a villager. especially compared to recent wolf games

I'll give that his tone is a little better than rocks/team game

but if that's all it takes to give a green light when his pushes are still terrible

I start to wonder whether we're talking about GH or a toddler who just picked up ww

[Manasi]

I think are almost always villagers
Hally, Ara

I am pretty sure they are villagers but they have some skepticism on them so I'll keep an eye on it
pZelda, Colonel, GH

Gut says V but I'm not confident in it
Esooa, Dya, Mont, Ephem, Cuth

Others feel good about but I'm skeptical of for a few reasons
Visor, Dolby

Few reasons to scumreads
Maple, Ampharos, Csargo

In this game
Manasi

Hi hello I am in this game.

I think for this EOD I'm gonna just sit in thread and do real-time stuff. Doesn't seem SUPER worth to try and read the last few pages if my attention span is this bad already lul

Someone tldr.

I choose Sunbae.

[Csargo]

He's fine_TM. around 85% town if I had to put a number on it.

Can you walk me through it or point me to where you did? I find Monty hard to read in most cases, but you seem to have seen something in Princes(?) that makes you decently confident in reading him here.

[Manasi]

Csargo why are you being voted pal?

[Ephemeral]

I think are almost always villagers
Hally, Ara

I am pretty sure they are villagers but they have some skepticism on them so I'll keep an eye on it
pZelda, Colonel, GH

Gut says V but I'm not confident in it
Esooa, Dya, Mont, Ephem, Cuth

Others feel good about but I'm skeptical of for a few reasons
Visor, Dolby

Few reasons to scumreads
Maple, Ampharos, Csargo

In this game
Manasi

can you walk me through that dya read?

[Manasi]

Visor why are you voting for dya

[Csargo]

Csargo why are you being voted pal?

Cause I'm bad at this game Manasi.

[Manasi]

Cause I'm bad at this game Manasi.

You see my postcount?

Same.

[Csargo]

You see my postcount?

Same.

Nice

[dyachei]

I'll give that his tone is a little better than rocks/team game

but if that's all it takes to give a green light when his pushes are still terrible

I start to wonder whether we're talking about GH or a toddler who just picked up ww

which push is terrible and why?

[Dolby]

Can you walk me through it or point me to where you did? I find Monty hard to read in most cases, but you seem to have seen something in Princes(?) that makes you decently confident in reading him here.

Right, so my experience with Monty has basically been the games on CFC, and let's take Star Trek and the Franklin ship cannibal game that I was hosting as examples of his town play.

In both games he had absolutely awful takes. I remember the Star Trek game better, but to outline, he pretty much voted with who maf wanted everyday. This did catch him some heat but people were able to find him as town because despite having the objectively worst vote record of a living player at that point he had a followable process and his method was alright. People did not find him in Franklin, but from what I remember of what I thought then, I thought his process was alright.

Compare that to Princes, where he was maf, I thought that he was maf instantly. This is kinda astounding because this was multiball and he could augment his fake reads with legitimate solving for the other team, but he was off instantly. Reads didn't seem to have a followable process until he somewhat adapted in the later game, was quite clearly pushing an agenda in his posts from D2, and everything he said was WHACK with capital letters. He also had a clear hard time getting into the thread state early game. I think that the way he's adapted "early game" this game has been alright and par for the course on how he normally does things, and I think a few of the points that I've seen from people are invalid and really shouldn't have been brought up normally (pzelda coming to mind of course)

[Manasi]

Someone tell me what's been going on smh

[Visor]

i gotta say i think ghs push on ephemeral has been very weak stuff

and i think eph has pushed it aside fine

[Sunbae]

can you walk me through that dya read?

After thinking about it I think the combo of her frustration towards me for "having an entirely different conversation", kinda just sponging GH, changing her opinion me for how I've handled her, responding to Ara's "who are you wrong about" question with Ara, and showing a general skepticism towards Colonel when I mentioned them as a town read all kinda fit in with the narrative of a town player just kinda commenting on things that come to mind as they are in the thread.

[Esooa]

Sunbae, any thoughts on my Eph case?


Esooa talk about cuth? earlier you were voting him and seemed like you wolf read him but then you put him as null in your reads list. what changed?

honestly don't remember why I voted him

but I don't have any real feelings regarding him rn

[Sunbae]

i gotta say i think ghs push on ephemeral has been very weak stuff

and i think eph has pushed it aside fine

Fwiw, I think GH actually showing an interest in other people listening to his stuff on Ephem rather than just making the post and letting it sit there is rather different than the way he was casing others in the last game.

[Zack]

Official Tally as of #991

4 Csargo (Sunbae, Arapocalypse, ColonelLubriderm, Hally)

2 dyachei (Raskolnikov, Visor)
2 Ephemeral (GeneralHankerchief, dyachei)
2 GeneralHankerchief (Cuthillius, Ephemeral)
2 pzelda (Montmorency, Dolby)

1 Cuthillius (Maple)
1 Dolby (Csargo)
1 Maple (Esooa)
1 Raskolnikov (pzelda)

Not Voting: Manasi

thunderously calm

[Sunbae]

Someone tell me what's been going on smh

Not really much honestly. I don't think anyone has made a super compelling case anywhere (including myself)

[Raskolnikov]

Vote: dyachei

i'll give you some time raskol

but you got an uphill battle d2

Why Visor? Can u walk me through your read here? (I would ISO you but I think I won't have time today and will invest some in it only if u become a wagon tbh)

[Csargo]

Right, so my experience with Monty has basically been the games on CFC, and let's take Star Trek and the Franklin ship cannibal game that I was hosting as examples of his town play.

In both games he had absolutely awful takes. I remember the Star Trek game better, but to outline, he pretty much voted with who maf wanted everyday. This did catch him some heat but people were able to find him as town because despite having the objectively worst vote record of a living player at that point he had a followable process and his method was alright. People did not find him in Franklin, but from what I remember of what I thought then, I thought his process was alright.

Compare that to Princes, where he was maf, I thought that he was maf instantly. This is kinda astounding because this was multiball and he could augment his fake reads with legitimate solving for the other team, but he was off instantly. Reads didn't seem to have a followable process until he somewhat adapted in the later game, was quite clearly pushing an agenda in his posts from D2, and everything he said was WHACK with capital letters. He also had a clear hard time getting into the thread state early game. I think that the way he's adapted "early game" this game has been alright and par for the course on how he normally does things, and I think a few of the points that I've seen from people are invalid and really shouldn't have been brought up normally (pzelda coming to mind of course)

I don't find Monty to have a followable process most of the time, that's how I feel about pzelda a lot as well. For me they're both hard to follow imo. I'll go back and look at both and see if I can see what you're seeing.

[Visor]

Why Visor? Can u walk me through your read here? (I would ISO you but I think I won't have time today and will invest some in it only if u become a wagon tbh)

sunbae would better explain it

but basically dya is super lacking in energy/solving

real big 'dont want to be here' energy

hasnt done any of their solving type posts they normally do as villa

[dyachei]

honestly don't remember why I voted him

but I don't have any real feelings regarding him rn

wait...you don't remember why you voted someone?

[Sunbae]

sunbae would better explain it

but basically dya is super lacking in energy/solving

real big 'dont want to be here' energy

hasnt done any of their solving type posts they normally do as villa


After thinking about it I think the combo of her frustration towards me for "having an entirely different conversation", kinda just sponging GH, changing her opinion me for how I've handled her, responding to Ara's "who are you wrong about" question with Ara, and showing a general skepticism towards Colonel when I mentioned them as a town read all kinda fit in with the narrative of a town player just kinda commenting on things that come to mind as they are in the thread.

:hide:

[Manasi]

i can't wait until tomorrow when ppl say my EOD was subpar and i just hopped onto a wagon when nobody is TALKING TO MEEEEEEEEEEE

First mafia game in a while and those mtgs phases are lookin mighty fine.

[Manasi]

vote: Dyachei

any spongers