Sweet Realistic Medieval Combat (Mount and Blade) [Archive]

Kraxis

05-31-2005, 13:31

Downloaded it, played it, bought it.

Now before anyone else does this... It is far from done! Only one city is anywhere near finished. And it has a feeling of unfinishedness about it all the time.

But the good stuff is this.

You absolutely want to use a shield! Without it you become a pincushion for archers, javelineers and even rockthrowers. At the same time you want to have a ranged weapon yourself. I chose a crossbow, and man, it can really dish out damage. If you are good you can snipe people for a good range, and headshots do significant damage. But reloading is fairly long (compared to a bow), but then again you can aim for as long as you want without decreasing accuracy (with the bow you get tired). You can even shoot it from horseback, though not reload it then (but you can with a bow).
Arrows, bolts and javelins all stick to their target, when I was hit by two javelins it looked rather silly with me running around with two large sticks in me, but it looks great when a shield has been filled with arrows or bolts or you findt one of your headshot targets with a bolt sticking out of his eye.

I used to hate the monted combat, but now that I have gotten hold of a good spear it it great fun. If you get the horse up to speed you can run down infantry with a couched lance attack. If you are good it is instant impalement and one less enemy to worry about. But in any case he is dropped to the ground. In this position you have to use the horse for aiming, but beware that slopes will slow you down and it is hard to maneuver the horse when it is running fast. Also horses come in various types, some certainly better than others.
Also if you switch your lance for sword and shield on horseback, you are still a very dangerous foe, running at enemies and swinging at them will knock them down unless they block your swing. So cavalry is very strong against infantry, but as soon as teh infantry manages to halt the cavalry they are cut to pieces. GREAT!!!! You can't even run down two men right after each other with the couched lance, you need a few seconds to reposition the lance.
If you kill a mounted enemy but not his horse you can take the horse and thus become monted. Very effective if his horse is better than yours or you have lost yours in battle.
Beware that men on horses can swist in the saddle quite far and reach almost everyone who is attacking him, but from the rear he is helpless, but sadly when you kill a mounted enemy from the ground you often kill the horse too.

I learned the hard way that you most certainly don't want to fight a melee against superior numbers. Being a hero I thought I could take on large groups of lousy enemies. WRONG! When they gang up on you they will hit you all the time, and each hit interrupts your attacks, so you can't hit back enough. Protecting yourself with the shield is about the only possible action while retreating. But eventually they will break the shield and then you are in deep trouble.
So you need to hire local soldiers, they are for the most part lousy fighters and will get ripped to pieces by anything better than pirates. But if they manage to do some damage and survive (there is chance that they will just get knocked out if they get 'killed') they will advance to new levels. If you even maange to get just a few Men-at-arms or knights your have a most powerful mounted force on your side.

I remember a massive battle I had against some 30 steppe bandits. My mission was to protect a caravan. It had only a few mounted warriors and a big group of rabble protecting it. My group on the other hand was a small strong force of professional warriors. As you can guess steppe bandits have lots of cavalry, and plenty of horse archers. The battle was long and very hard, bodies were strewn everywhere. I had been sitting on a hill sniping the enemy infantry (cavalry is too fast for proper sniping), but when I ran out of bolts (only have 21) I ran to my inventory and grabbed my spear, mounted my horse and began to charge every enemy I could find. That couched lance really helped a lot. I finally ran down the last horse archer by gaining on him on his blind side (horse archers only have a free attack to their left, the right is obstructed by the bow).
The result was that of the 24 caravan people only 9 survived, of my 9 warriors only 5 survived (of which three of us always get knocked out if we get 'killed'), but we managed to capture 4 bandits.
Capturing enemies is done by using blunt weapons, but they are not as good in reach or power as swords for instance. Captured enemies can then be sold into slavery at a few places. Lovely!

Thoros of Myr

05-31-2005, 22:06

Thank you for the link mate...

This is freakin awesome. I may well get the full game.

My thoughts exactly. Great find! Thanks Crazed Rabbit :bow:

econ21

05-31-2005, 22:27

Wow, Kraxis, that's a pretty enticing recommendation. Downloading now... What's the "campaign" or "quest" system like, that glues together the combats?

Alexander the Pretty Good

06-01-2005, 00:14

Hmmm. I've played a couple hours so far. The combat is excellant, though I am unskilled. I need more money to get better weapons. That seems to be the hard part.

The towns and things feel unfinished, but that (hopefully) will be corrected when it's finished. And for $11, I might just try it.

Here is a review (http://dubiousquality.blogspot.com/2005/05/mount-blade.html) I found online.

Another (http://www.rpgdot.com/index.php?hsaction=10053&ID=1115&sid=25e0b6c3f104cc3ca4550663b34b50e3) review with some screens.

The official (http://www.taleworlds.com/index.html) page.

Multiplayer combat would be amazing, I suspect. Though I doubt it will happen.

~:cheers:

Thoros of Myr

06-01-2005, 00:20

Multiplayer combat would be amazing, I suspect. Though I doubt it will happen.

~:cheers:

No kidding. I could see a zillion clans and tournaments popping up if MP was added. A fully realized jousting arena with this combat would be pure gold!
Full battles of 16-32-48 people would be a sight to behold and 1 on 1 combat would be very intense! :duel:

Crazed Rabbit

06-01-2005, 03:32

I must admit I found it on the ME:TW forums.

Wow, Kraxis, that's a pretty enticing recommendation. Downloading now... What's the "campaign" or "quest" system like, that glues together the combats?

There is, as of yet, no main quest or story. YOu can choose between two warring sides, however.

Hmmm. I've played a couple hours so far. The combat is excellant, though I am unskilled. I need more money to get better weapons. That seems to be the hard part.

There's a salt mine you can buy salt from for 78 gold and sell for 160 gold in Zendar, though don't load yourself down so much that you get caught by bandits. The best weapons come from the battles, though.

My favorite thing is joining a huge Vaegir-Swadian battle.

No kidding. I could see a zillion clans and tournaments popping up if MP was added. A fully realized jousting arena with this combat would be pure gold!
Full battles of 16-32-48 people would be a sight to behold and 1 on 1 combat would be very intense!

Amen to that! Actually, I believe the next release will incorporate modding tools, so if anyone is skilled enough...

I'm gonna buy this soon, and I can't wait for the mods sure to be made!

Crazed Rabbit

Kraxis

06-01-2005, 09:59

Indeed, there is no main quest or even a storyline. But there is a little indicator that there might be in the full release. It seems to me that there might be more to the war than meets the eye and there are also 'dark' forces out there (and they are strong)... Maybe they will work on that.

I don't mind much that the towns are so unfinished, only that the tavernkeeper is so far away in his building.

I agree with rabbit that the best equipment comes from battles. You just need to beat up big groups of enemies. So look around for caravans under attack. They are normally rather well protected and withyou and your buddies you should be able to win against even rather large groups of enemies.
Make sure you do missions for the merchants, they give you 700+ for just escorting a caravan to a nearby town, a lot more if it farther away. Some times you will even be charged with missions to deliver goods somewhere, again at a good price (I accidentally sold the goods the first time and ended up owing the merchants 18600 gold, no trade until that was paid with interest).
Beware of the Sea Raiders though... They are not as weak as their name suggests. When engaging them, be sure to have at the very least 2/3rds of their numbers, and if you feel you haven't got enough, just hire peasants in large numbers. They are bad fighters on their own, but I saw how they dealt with a number of Swadian deserter knights. The knights stormed in, but they were soon halted by the mass of men (and women) and before long they were either dead or their horses were dead. One poor knight actually survived and was ganged up on by 5-6 peasants, his HP and armour obviously helped him a long way as he took hits all the time, his shield splintered and he simply couldn't defend himself, he couldn't even retreat away. Eventually I had to step in and put an end to his misery. But the visage of pitchforks, sickles and clubs striking the defenseless man was impressive. And very good by the way. The knights charged headlessly in and suffered from it. The infantry that followed proceeded to make mincemeat of the peasants until I and my men rescued them.

MP? I can't see why this can't be made, it is perfect for it. The Tournament in Zendar is a perfect setting for it and almost looks like a test for future MP.

zelda12

06-01-2005, 11:30

MP will not be coming out for M&B 1 but Amargan (One of the only two developers) has hinted that it might be included in M&B 2.

I've had the game for a week or so, and it is amazing. I'm currently lv 27 and with my band of Swadian Infantry. Having 20 crossbowmen in one place blunts any cavalry charge. ~:)

Kraxis

06-01-2005, 14:59

I constantly run into trouble as soon as I have a nice army.
I had 3 knights, 5 sharpshooters, 4 crossbowmen, 7 men at arms and finally 7 Footmen.

A nice army that should be able to take on anything, especially bandits (you know those quest bandits). I ended up in a battle against 34 of those bandits. And yup, they managedto take out my entire army eventhough I dropped them like flies. Finally my crossbow ran out of ammo and my horse got knocked out from under me and I still faced some 6-7 enemies, of which 2 were mounted.
I got beat so bad.

Then it was simply goodbye army, one I had used so much time in building to a proper state (I had just handed over 5 knights and 6 men at arms for quests so this was the beginning of a new round of troops). RATS!

zelda12

06-01-2005, 15:07

I travel with 53 men, I can quite easily take down Vaegir War Parties of 90 or more men. Quite Fun really being on my Spirited Charger, ordering my guys to hold a hill and then chraging into the melee as the hail of bolts flies from my men.

Spino

06-01-2005, 17:04

Crazed Rabbit you bastard! Last night I was ready to hit the sack around 11:30 so I could catch some quality REM sleep that I missed the night before. However, just before shutting my computer down for the night I caught this thread here in the Arena and simply had to see what all the ranting and raving was about...

I didn't get to sleep until 2am! :furious3:

This game is great! Talk about an impressive debut! At first you think it's some obscure 'ho hum' rpg but then you actually get to fight! I found myself yelling at the screen quite a number of times; I yelled at myself, yelled at the enemy and also found myself yelling at my comrades in and out of the arena to warn them or danger or come to my aid!

About the only thing I don't like is that the horse doesn't seem to impart any mass when it hits an enemy soldier. Sure, you can knock the bugger on his buttocks but at the same time your horse will stop and rear up on his hind legs. In the very least swiping a soldier with your horse should provide some kind of hit and run effect. Now I totally understand the realism/balance issue at work here. However it doesn't make sense that a very expensive, high quality warhorse couldn't knock over an enemy soldier (at least those without spears or polearms) while at a full gallop and keep going. In the very least each knocked over soldier could slow the horse down so as to not make mounted troops nigh invincible. The mounted AI also needs some work, horsemen in the arena or in constricted spaces will sometimes run their horses into a wall or obstacle, leaving them extremely vulnerable until they can turn around and ride in another direction. But these are amazing small quibbles considering the game is still a work in progress.

I travel with 53 men, I can quite easily take down Vaegir War Parties of 90 or more men. Quite Fun really being on my Spirited Charger, ordering my guys to hold a hill and then chraging into the melee as the hail of bolts flies from my men.

53 vs. 90! ~:eek: I didn't know the battles could get that large! That's fantastic! I wonder if the developers programmed a maximum number of men per side in any given battle. How was your framerate during that battle and what CPU & 3D card are you using?

For the next version I'd like to see them add group formations to the orders menu. I see no reason why seasoned, higher tier soldiers cannot set themselves into a rudimentary formation.

The core of this game, the combat, is so brilliantly done that it would be an absolute crime if the developers changed gears and made it into a more 'traditional' rpg or worse, dropped the project altogether! ~:eek:

I seriously hope this husband and wife developer team is able to take this game/idea/engine to the next level. Hopefully they can get some additional artists and programmers on board and flesh out the existing game. Once the word gets out on this little gem I seriously doubt there will be a lack of modding type volunteers who are willing to help out!

zelda12

06-01-2005, 17:14

53 vs. 90! I didn't know the battles could get that large! That's fantastic! I wonder if the developers programmed a maximum number of men per side in any given battle. How was your framerate during that battle and what CPU & 3D card are you using?

When I say that much they do it in segments with around 15-20 men o each side. I imagine that you could probaly squeeze more men in but Amargan hasn't commented on it yet.

On the other subjects Amargan has been saying that he is going to get some more people on board to help him out. Here's hoping we are seeing the birth of one of the futures greatest game developers.

Alexander the Pretty Good

06-02-2005, 00:19

About the only thing I don't like is that the horse doesn't seem to impart any mass when it hits an enemy soldier. Sure, you can knock the bugger on his buttocks but at the same time your horse will stop and rear up on his hind legs. In the very least swiping a soldier with your horse should provide some kind of hit and run effect. Now I totally understand the realism/balance issue at work here. However it doesn't make sense that a very expensive, high quality warhorse couldn't knock over an enemy soldier (at least those without spears or polearms) while at a full gallop and keep going. In the very least each knocked over soldier could slow the horse down so as to not make mounted troops nigh invincible. The mounted AI also needs some work, horsemen in the arena or in constricted spaces will sometimes run their horses into a wall or obstacle, leaving them extremely vulnerable until they can turn around and ride in another direction. But these are amazing small quibbles considering the game is still a work in progress.
If you're going fast enough, you will [sometimes] run right over the guy. Strangely, it doesn't do that much damage - less than I would expect. And I have to agree, it would be nice if some of the AI was better. But still...

How do you equip soldiers in your party? Do you have to have the equipment avaliable? Do newly hired people come with any weapons?

I think the engine is mostly done, and they just need to flesh out details (like a plot...). All in all very, very cool.

Crazed Rabbit

06-02-2005, 00:48

All soldiers come with their own equipment, except for the two named characters Borcha and Marnid, who you can equip.

You can even change your character's face! Try and guess who this is:

http://img227.echo.cx/img227/3702/johnkerrys1ed.png

Crazed Rabbit

Alexander the Pretty Good

06-02-2005, 01:46

~:eek:

I wonder if he's a good fighter.... :book:

:laugh: :laugh2: :laugh3: :laugh4:

And thanks, I'll try getting some peasants to join my quest against the river pirates!

Monk

06-02-2005, 01:48

I really like this game. I have to say there's satisfaction in putting an arrow in the eye of a river pirate at 50 yards ~;) ~D

Crazed Rabbit

06-02-2005, 02:00

Glad to be of service. And watch out for Sea Raiders: they are basically Vikings. And like vikings, they are very tough. Great ranged attacks and deadly close combat. They lack only in mobility.

Crazed Rabbit

Thoros of Myr

06-02-2005, 05:14

I bought the beta today. Very happy to support such a fine product. I can't wait to see what they manage to get in the full release version. It's positively oozing with potential. ~:cheers:

I think I just hit lvl 10 and the Sea Raiders are kicking my backside at every corner but that's the way I like it. :charge: Crazed Rabbit is right, they are basically Vikings and they fight like it! Very deadly in the open field with their thrown axes and javelins and very aggresive in melee combat. Now I will take a moment to reflect on the 100s of poorly trained peasants and militia that have died under my command... ~;)

I really wish I could join the steppe bandits faction and do some Mongol style raids on the populace. Maybe in the next patch ~D

Efrem

06-02-2005, 09:32

supposedly that is something you'll be able to do later. Hence the Bandit Stronghold.

SwordsMaster

06-02-2005, 09:44

hmm...guys, I just dl the demo thinghy yesterday, but it doesnt run. As in I click the executable file and it just ignores me.... do I have to do something different? lower the screen resolution or something?

Efrem

06-02-2005, 09:54

I didn't.

econ21

06-02-2005, 11:45

Wonderful game. I bought it. Thanks, Crazed Rabbit and Kraxis.

Anyone got any combat tips? I am not sure I am getting the whole "feinting/direction of attack" type thing, nor am I much use on a horse. Anyone care to spell things out to a newbie, I'd be grateful. I got through the training and am about level 9, but usually lose the tournament and win battles more by picking which ones are winnable than by in-battle heroism. I'm pretty decent with a bow though.

zelda12

06-02-2005, 11:58

First off get yourself a nice large party, lot of extra swords help, alot. Then when you deploy its best to press '1' to order your troops to hold this position. When the enemy arrives they'll come in dribs and drabs and your boys can easily overpower them. Also when in combat look for when your enemies are going to attack and use your shielf to block their attacks and then counterattack. If you are getting swamped try running backwards as they'll usualy follow you and you can deal blows out whilst they very rarely can all hit you together.

Oh and get your riding skill up, save up and buy a charger and a balanced great axe. Then let the good times roll! ~:cool:

Also to all of you who are saying the horse doesn't knock the enemies over you need to get a faster horse with a much better chrage rating. I guarantee you that if you get a spirited charger you will be able to knock groups of 3 or 4 enemies flying with as much as 20 damage depending on your speed. ~D

Lehesu

06-02-2005, 15:40

The game is fun, but it also randomly crashes my computer. A major source of irritation, that.

Spino

06-02-2005, 17:19

Damn, I had another 'up til 2am' session last night! Glad the boss isn't in the office today because I'm a walking zombie... ~;)

Also to all of you who are saying the horse doesn't knock the enemies over you need to get a faster horse with a much better chrage rating. I guarantee you that if you get a spirited charger you will be able to knock groups of 3 or 4 enemies flying with as much as 20 damage depending on your speed. ~D

You know, I was secretly hoping this would be the case and now I'm positively giddy that it's true. I haven't gotten my hands on a high quality warhorse yet but I'm certainly looking forward to it! I love the fact that the developers have taken the 'little things' like this into account.

I can't wait for the next update!

Kraxis

06-02-2005, 18:25

Yeah it is lovely to watch 6-7 knights totally flatten a group of enemy infantry with their great horses.

Right now I only have a Heavy Hunter as my horse (riding skill too low for chargers or war horses) but damn it is good. Fast, maneuverable, durable and a nice charge. But I truly expect the Spirited Charger to be the best... Have you noticed if there was any Heavy Charger? But for a true eastern style horse archer it would have to be the Spirited Steppe Horse or the Spirited Hunter, they are very fast and very maneuverable.

Personally I prefer to use my heavy crossbow with extra ammo in the inventory. But as a safeguard I have a thick steel shield and a balanced longsword for when enemy cavalry and infantry get too close. In my inventory I also carry a Great Lance, perfect for riding down the enemy.

So when out of ammo I change into a knight and go about killing the enemy in melee. Often by then the enemy has been depleted and dispersed making it easy to rip them apart with couched lance attacks.

SA... Be sure that you get to know the shield before you fight too many enemies. Keep it up when the enemy has ranged capabilities. When an enemy is within striking range, let him attack you first, then quickly drop the shieldstance and strike at him. He might parry but keep up the attack and he will not be able to strike back at you. If he keeps parrying, then halt and use the shield again.
It is wise use variety in the attack. Attack with swing from either side, then a stab and so on. Notice the arrows, they indicate to which side you will pull the weapon. This is very helpful on horseback where you need to see where the enemy is heading and thus choose the right side to swing the weapon.
But often relentless attacks often prevails.
Many enemies at once can be a problem, if that is the case, up with the shield and backpedal then use the same tactics as there will often only be one enemy within range of both your weapons.

Don't be afraid of horses. In the arena they are hard to control, but they aer lousy horses and you have no room. Better horses in the open are great and will grant you a good deal of ability. Bring a fair horse (a saddle horse is often good enough, but it must be at least 8 in speed) next time you go into battle against a weak enemy. Then you can practice attacks on enemies. But never rush into a fight and never charge into the center of a group. That is a perfect way to end up dead.

econ21

06-02-2005, 20:52

Thanks for the tips, folks. The pressing "1" at the start of the battle is a life-saver - stops my horsemen charging off to their deaths. I am still relying on my bow, but have now bought a charger and am building up my polearm skill.

All soldiers come with their own equipment, except for the two named characters Borcha and Marnid, who you can equip.

How can you equip Marnid? He needed a padded cloth to join up but since then seems to be stuck with his padded cloth and club despite going up a few levels.

Also, where is Borcha?

This game is so addictive, it's given me a migraine. :dizzy2:

zelda12

06-02-2005, 20:57

You can Find Borcha at Revachig or whatever its called, the town to the North west of the one you start in, to give them weapons go to the map screen and go to party by pressing 'p' then select Marnid or Borcha and click talk. Then the conversation is pretty straightforward.

The Wizard

06-02-2005, 21:43

Great thing to recommend guys -- I think I'm gonna go buy it, if only to see this game grow into a great project that'll take the game world by storm.

I love the combat -- it's amazing how such a seemingly simple, boring game can be so addictive due to just that one part of its experience. Although I do think there a whole lot of loose ends around, especially considering the story and the map, but this is a beta and I'm sure the end version will be much improved.

At first I had the same impression as Spino, in the sense that this was going to be the same old thing, with a bit of a spin given to it by way of the special combat system I had read about. But when my first real fight with river pirates started, I was hooked!

There is enormous promise in this game, and here's a lot of hoping that, with a fleshed out team, the game itself can be hugely fleshed out. The fact that this bare version can be so immersing gives me a lot of hope. But think of this game with the Havok 2.0 engine, with a good storyline, a(n even?) deeper combat system, and, the cherry on the oh-so-sweet pie: multiplayer! Drool...

This thing is shaping up to deliver the same shocking impact Diablo had back in the day -- certainly where my addiction is concerned! ~D

~Wiz

The Scourge

06-02-2005, 22:10

Got to level 6 ,and had to buy the full game.
Great find .
Best horse riding I've ever seen in a game .Nothing like slicing a sea raider through the neck as I charge past at full gallop.

Kraxis

06-02-2005, 23:37

Don't worry SA... I only learned about giving Marnid and Borcha equipment fairly late. Now they are quite well equiped, and they last a good while now.

It is interesting that there is a Merchant class, when it is really not that fun to trade. And I can't possibly believe that it will ever be that much fun.

By the way, if you are in a great need of money the best thing you can do is to travel to the salt mine and then back to Zendar again to sell it. It is a good and very fast way of making money. And after you have drained the mine you would have made enough money to buy yourself some nice equipment.

Of course it is better to do this very early in the game when there are no bandits.

Alexander the Pretty Good

06-02-2005, 23:43

Wow. Just fought a nice battle. About 30 vaegirs (sp) and 30 swadians were fighting it out, and since I'm a new vaegir recruit, I figured I help out my friends.

Chaos. Guys dying everywhere. Those enemy knights are tough! And me, little old me, in the thick of it! So cool.

I *will* pay the $11 for this game. :duel:

Steppe Merc

06-03-2005, 00:14

This looks very good. I will certaintly investage this when it comes out. :bow:

Can you be a horse archer? Please... please...

RabidGibbon

06-03-2005, 00:17

Wow, this game is class, I just had to buy it when I reached level 6.

I had a gang of 10 Vaegir Knights who were riding about laying down the law bt theyve lost it a bit now (on account of all being killed by dark knights) and I've resorted to mass peasent attacks again.

Still a big up to crazed rabbit for reccomending the game.

Husar

06-03-2005, 00:34

Can you be a horse archer?

Yes, you can. ~D
Played it the whole day, going to buy it ASAP(not sure about money right now).
This is almost what I always wanted. ~:cool: :charge:

Thoros of Myr

06-03-2005, 00:54

Best horse riding I've ever seen in a game .Nothing like slicing a sea raider through the neck as I charge past at full gallop.

True, true. I'm loving that more than anything right now. I'm loving my spirited steppe horse and scimitar. The horse runs so fast none can catch me. The speed of scimitar is great in close. I've developed into a light, fast fighter. It's been very effective for killing sea raiders. :charge:

No other game has quite the good feeling you get at the end of battle with four throwing axes lodged in your shield, a javelin stuck in your leg, and dead sea raiders strewn across the landscape. ~D

econ21

06-03-2005, 02:19

Thanks for the advice on equipping Borcha and the other NPC (also on levelling them!). It adds another dimension when my main character is pretty much tricked out and I have them to work on.

BTW, is there any trick to using a "couched lance" attack? I've got a charger and a great lance, but my lance does pitiful damage (when I can get it to connect with anything). Is there a skill prerequisite? My polearm skill was a little below 100. I haven't practised it much, as my archery seems more useful but I'd like to get the hang of horse combat.

EDIT: Feeling dumb now, I just found the "quick and dirty" manual thread on the forum:

http://taleworlds.com/v-web/bulletin/bb/viewtopic.php?t=584

It sounds like the couched lance attack is rather different.

GoreBag

06-03-2005, 02:43

Arrrgh! This 6th level thing is ridiculous! If I didn't know it wasn't allowed, I'd ask for someone to PM me the details of skirting that annoyance.

Can you be a horse archer? Please... please...

Yeah...but is it ever bloody HARD! Horse archery is ridiculous!

Oh...and don't try starting as a former priest. There is basically no way to get going without already having weapons and a horse.

Crazed Rabbit

06-03-2005, 04:38

The aiming for the archery reticle gets smaller the slower you go, and hunters have the highest starting archery skill (and a bow instead of crossbow).

Nevertheless, you need to pump your starting archery skill a lot to get good at horse archery.

Here's a screenie of one battle I joined (This was near the end, but there were still 10-15 people left (unfortunately all but 2, including me, on the other side)):

http://img211.echo.cx/img211/5452/mb29mt.th.jpg (http://img211.echo.cx/my.php?image=mb29mt.jpg)

Lots of bodies!

Crazed Rabbit

discovery1

06-03-2005, 04:47

http://taleworlds.com/v-web/bulletin/bb/viewtopic.php?t=1363

Thread on using lances.

Efrem

06-03-2005, 07:41

I'm playing as a merchant and loving it!!

Hell I got to Level 4 and 6000 denars without EVER swinging a sword or any other weapon for that matter.

Magraev

06-03-2005, 08:39

I'm going to download this puppy today - sounds grreat.

eh - is there some way to edit/cheat? :embarassed:

Rosacrux redux

06-03-2005, 09:05

Damn, this game sounds GREAT!!! I am going to download and buy but... how big is the file and is it only available online?

Ja'chyra

06-03-2005, 09:30

Played this to level 6 last night and considering it is written by a husband and wife and started as a hobby it is a very nice game and I will be paying for the full version tonight.

My impressions so far.

The class you pick at the beginning reflects the equipment you start the game with, I chose hunter and started with a horse, an axe and a bow. I believe the priest doesn't have a horse in the beginning so you would need to earn enough to buy one as they are a pretty vital bit of equipment.

After you've done the training be sure to enter the arena, if you bet on yourself and win you double your money but you can only bet a maximum of 200d a time.

I didn't bother buying weapons or armour before I left town, when you win battles you will pick these up from the battlefield though it might make your first few battles harder.

Don't leave town without some backup, you'll die. You can hire help from the tavern, which I believe is the building in front of where you start (just walk up to it and press f to enter). In here you can hire a henchman, Mendin or something like that (Could be Fu Manchu as far as I know, my memory isn't the best), he is the the first guy on the right of the 4 people you see when entering and will want a set of padded armour before he joins you (the armour can be bought from the merchant outside). You should also see the tavern keeper to hire some townsmen, he is behind the pillar just past the 4 people, these are pretty poor to begin with but they do upgrade as they gain experience so get yourself 5 or so of them.

In the other door is the merchant and as stated before you can make quite a bit of money by selling him salt form the salt mine to the north. He will also give out quests which are escorting merchant caravans, these are easy money and experience.

After this you are just about ready to leave town and this is where the game really begins. From here there are three main options, trading, quests and hunting down bands of bandits. The quests are pretty much as stated earlier, if there are different types I haven't found them yet, trading is as it sounds ou buy low in one town and sell high in another, and then there's my favourite, hunting. The map screen is similar to Pirates of the Carribean, except on land, where if you roam around the map you will see other groups of people, how far depends on your spotting skill. These groups are either neutral, friendly or aggresive, a good tip is to find a group that has been attacked by river pirates and then pitch in, this has the advantage of you having allies in the fight against the pirates and makes the fight much easier.

This is the very basics of the game, I'm at work so I can't type any more ~;) , if I get time I might go into combat later ~:cheers:

frogbeastegg

06-03-2005, 12:45

Rosacrux, it's about 35MB total, and so far as I know it's only available this way.

:sigh: Now the frog is an addict too ~:mecry:

I downloaded the game when this topic was first posted, but I only just had time to tinker with it. I've done about 20 minutes, and so far it's been a rather wild ride. I've passed the training, and got the sea raider quest. I gathered 5 peasants and off I went questing. I was hired to escort a caravan, but the will-die-when-I-find-him! merchant didn't pay me! Then I helped a patrol deal with some raiders ... and my allies turned on me and slaughtered my men, horse and beat me unconscious. So at this point I have 6 dinars left, and the starting equipment of a squire minus the horse, and a round shield.

I tried two more 'help the good guys' battles with the raiders. I got killed in one because all my allies died, and I got mobbed by about 7 angry and hairy men. The second I survived, and I got some very rubbish armour to take away. That'll give me about 600 dinars total, no men, no horse and the same rubbish equipment. That is where I am right now, at level 3.

I've tried the arena, but it has this wonderful gift for dumping me on a terrible team and with the weapons I am worst with. I have no idea how to use a lance or fight on horseback, and when it's not making me attempt to do that I'm stuck as an archer with no other weapon besides my bow. Heh, the AI can change weapons, but in the arena I can't. I did win one battle, but I got nothing for it. I presume you have to bet and win, but I don't have the cash or skill to really do that.

I like the longsword/shield comb, and the staff. The bow and crossbow seem nice, but I haven't used them much yet. I hate two-handed swords! I can't use a lance to save my life (literally).

So ... suggestions? I'm going to keep on trying to scavenge off easy battles until I can afford a horse, armour and some men.

And how do you get those merchants that pop up on the world map to pay you for escorting them?

Any tips for mounted combat? I can't hit anything, and I've had opportunity to fight with both sword and lance.

Froggy: Intrepid wannabe knight (I want full Norman style mail armour, a nasal helm, and a clipped kite shield to go with lance and a long sword. Mmmm, nice armour …), heading back to the field instead of eating lunch!

zelda12

06-03-2005, 12:49

To get the merchants to be escorted you have to go into town and ask the merchant there if he has any jobs for you. Then you'll get to escort the caravan to their destination.

Also the arena takes practise but it is a nice little money earner in the early stages of the game. And good for leveling up early on, but after around level 8 its better to kill river pirates.

Chimpyang

06-03-2005, 13:25

If you want a spirite Charger at the start of the game pick female then Court Lady. I was messing around with different classes and other things and found that out.

It's pity that the game sometimes unexpectedl freezes on my comp between places. Also theres a bug that if you have no mounted troops in your army, if you order them to mount or dismount a eroor message comes up which then causes my comp at least to automatically shut down! But being a beta this is an excellent game!

Efrem

06-03-2005, 13:38

You just have not attack with lance. But try to hit your opponent with the end of the lance when it is pointed down. You need a not c**p horse to do this. If you can hit a crouched lance you can waste anybody.

For Caravan quests, you talk to them when your very close to the destination, then they will pay you.

I have about 12,000 denars and was on my way to buy perfect knight gear when I reached level six. I'll somehow have to get my dad to buy me this and then I pay him back in cash.

make sure you get a skill in trainer, then just buy as many peasants as you can. SPARE NO EXPENSE. Men equals winning battles equals money equals more men/better equitment equals more won battles.

econ21

06-03-2005, 14:48

So ... suggestions? I'm going to keep on trying to scavenge off easy battles until I can afford a horse, armour and some men.

And how do you get those merchants that pop up on the world map to pay you for escorting them?

The Constable in the starter town gives you a quest to fight river pirates. These are the easiest enemies so you can target small groups of them. (I could solo five or less at the beginning with just a bow).

I would hire Marnid in the starter tavern asap. Talk to him on the campaign map and you can level him up, equip him etc. There's another one, Borcha, in Rivacheg.

At every town, visit the Merchant and ask for a job. They give decent money and experience. To escort a caravan talk to it and get it to follow you.

Any tips for mounted combat? I can't hit anything, and I've had opportunity to fight with both sword and lance.

I have not really cracked this. Archery on foot with a sword and shield to fall back on seems better.

zelda12

06-03-2005, 15:01

Any tips for mounted combat? I can't hit anything, and I've had opportunity to fight with both sword and lance.

Mounted Combat is one of the best ways to fight, first get a good fast horse, then either a two handed weapon (great axe for preference) or get a nice sword and shield combo. When you charge the enemy time your swing so that you swing down just as the enemy is knowcked over, this will allow you to get rid of their shield defence.

Or you can use the mass cavalry charge.
http://img260.echo.cx/img260/6227/39wg.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)
http://img194.echo.cx/img194/4763/28qv1.th.jpg (http://img194.echo.cx/my.php?image=28qv1.jpg)
http://img203.echo.cx/img203/7206/17ur.th.png (http://img203.echo.cx/my.php?image=17ur.png)

econ21

06-03-2005, 15:36

Zelda12 - I'm just wondering how come you have a Kradus and (two?) Xerina's in your screenshots? IIRC, aren't they two of the characters in the starter town tavern? Can they join you at some stage?

zelda12

06-03-2005, 15:45

Not really, but there is a mod to help you out.

http://taleworlds.com/v-web/bulletin/bb/viewtopic.php?t=1446&start=0

Kraxis

06-03-2005, 17:52

Ok it seems a few people have some trouble...

Couched lance is about the only way to go with lances. Normally they are slow and do not do much damage. I noticed the couched lance technique in the Arena when I got speared out of my saddle on the first pass.
To do it:
Get a horse that has at least 8 in speed (and be certain that you are good enough at Riding to control it). Then speed it up to full speed, then at some point you will notice the lance drops. Now you are ready to run people over. When you have a target in your sights, make certain he will end up slightly on you right side, or else you will miss (possibly do some charge damage with the horse and knock him down if he is infantry). If he is infantry make certain that you look downwards a good deal, how you look is how the lance is positioned. Thus you can even kill a horse under a knight, but I prefer to kill him.
If you are up against lots of ranged infantry, be sure you have a shield and keep it up while you are heading for them. It will take any ranged attacked, then about 7 meters from them let go of the shield and the lance should fall into place just in time. But beware, the archers might just have time to shoot you and then you lose your concentration and will not impale him.

Also beware of slopes, there is nothing worse than charging at archers only to realize at the last instance that the lance simply won't drop down while you are getting plastered by arrows.

Horse Archery:
Get a bow, get a fast horse with good maneuverability, fight. It is that simple, but to be effective as a horse archer you need to have some skillpoints in Horse Archery. That will lower the reticule spread a bit. Of course the best way to be a horse archer is to stand still while shooting, then scoot to another great position of shooting. But you can draw enemy infantry around in circles letting your own ranged troops kill them. But be certain the enemy is on your left side, you can get the bow across the horse's neck (and it is rather hard to shoot a bow to right side of the body).

The Arena:
You get 20 denaries after each bout in the Arena, but only when you talk to the master.

Caravans:
Make sure you talk to the Caravan Master a short distance before it enters the destination.
Caravans are also great at attracting bandits and give you the added strength to beat them senseless. But the caravan won't come to your assistance if the bandits think you are a better target, so make sure it is the caravan they want before you head for them.

Btw, I have now reached level 26, have a full panoply of Black Armour (give me a white tree and I will be a gondorian knight from the films, but not as whimpy). I have a balanced longsword, a thick steel shield (though it is quite ugly round it gives me 846 points of protection enough to soak up all the ranged attacks you can imagine), a great lance and a sniper crossbow with two large bags of bolts. I'm a walking talking killingmachine.

Crazed Rabbit

06-03-2005, 18:03

I find, starting out as a squire, that I can usually take groups of four or five river pirates by myself. Also, it is good to go to the trainer and practice in the arena in Zendar.

A few tips for on foot combat:

When you are on foot with a group of enemies coming towards you, walk backwards while swinging. If you have any missiles, preferably some throwing items, use them.

While walking backwards, swing at your enemies. After a bit of practice you can get the timing down to kill them. Hopefully you'll be able to kill them off one by one. What you do not want to do is stop, because then you'll be swamped. If your horse gets dropped in a swarm of men, raise your shield and back out.

In one on one, keep on attacking after you hit the guy. Don't let up, and you'll usually get him. Also, slashing attacks have a wider range than the downward slashes.

For horse combat, hitting people with a sword is rather simple. Just ride towards the side of a person, then look to whatever side they are on (to make your attack go to that side) and swing. Be wary of getting your horse injured, though, as it could become lame (and much slower).

My current character is level 8, and has a good steppe horse, a fighting axe, nordic sword and throwing axes. I got that sweet loot from a battle between manhunters and sea raiders I joined.

One time, it was my and faithful Borcha against some 8 river pirates. WHle Borcha charged and got himself knocked out, I rode around throwing axes at them. With only 7 axes, I managed to get 3 or 4 headshots. After that, I rode amoung them, slashing with my sword. After a while, I noticed my horse was damaged, so I rode off a bit and dismounted, and finished the remaining foes on foot.

And Zelda, how do you take screenshots?

Crazed Rabbit

Kraxis

06-03-2005, 19:26

F11 will generate a screenshot.

zelda12

06-03-2005, 20:43

Or you can use...Fraps!

frogbeastegg

06-03-2005, 20:44

Well, after my terrible start I managed to recover and work my way up to level 6.

I spent a while working the arena for 20 denars a time, not daring to place bets even when I finally scraped the cash to do so. I found the fights entirely too unpredictable, and often too unfair. I was most often dumped in as a foot archer, despite only having about 28 points in bows ... That meant I couldn't hit a thing, and having no other weapon I just got killed the instant anyone got close to me. Also the arena horse is just too bad to fight on; it has the turning circle of a dead whale. I suspect that's the main reason I was having trouble; I spent ages running about trying to get lined up for an attack, and probably still ended up slightly out of line anyway, or not looking down far enough to hit infantry. I do wonder why they bothered putting mounted combat in with such useless horses; they should have dished out average mounts, to match the average armour you get loaned.

My break came when I gave up on the noble arts of war and decided to cheese it as a salt merchant for a bit. I soon earned a pile of cash taking salt from the mine to the nearest village. I got myself a decent saddlehorse and 10 peasants, and then did some very cautious battling against the 10 man strong groups of forest bandits. That led to nice equipment and better horses, and slaves and booty to sell, and from there things picked up quite decently. I found I did far better by giving up on horse riding and sticking to a sword/shield combo for melee, and using my crossbow like a madfrog at every opportunity.

Properly equipped, backed up, and not stuffed in the arena it turns out I'm quite a good shot with a crossbow, and rather mean with my sword. :gring: I didn’t risk any more mounted combat; I hadn’t got to the point where I could afford to risk losing a horse.

I'm going to start a second game with another character, and build up to much better cash and equipment without levelling up. I want to try out reasonable skill level/good mount combat, and a few other things, before I consider buying or not. The equivalent of £6 might not be much for a game, but it’s the price of a good book, and a frog always has at least ten books she wants to buy at all times.

When you are on foot with a group of enemies coming towards you, walk backwards while swinging. If you have any missiles, preferably some throwing items, use them.
I found I couldn’t do that successfully; I was always being stabbed repeatedly without even chance to get in an attack of any sort. My enemies seemed a bit faster than me. It was most noticeable in the arena, during all this confounded bouts where I was dumped in as a foot archer.

Steppe Merc

06-03-2005, 21:41

Well I downloaded it, and I suck. Quite interesting though. I just finished the training, and I was trying accsess my equipment screen (if there is such a thing...) Somehow, it CTDed on me... But I really like this game!

And can I use a shield with a bow? Or should I not invest in shield if I'm gonna be a mounted horse archer?

Magraev

06-03-2005, 22:30

You can't use a shield. It's quite a bit of fun being a horse-archer, but those 20 arrows sure get spent fast...

I'd go for archery and polearms (incl. lances, but some have been reporting problems with them?) or 2-handed and archery for weapons. This way you can have 2 weapons and 2 sets of arrows at the ready.

now :charge:

Thoros of Myr

06-03-2005, 23:03

Mounted with one handed sword+shield is my favorite combo right now for a few reasons.
I can survive the hail axes and javs the sea raiders throw at me and a bit of close combat if my horse becomes bogged down because of the shield.
Most one handed swords have a fast attack speed so if your first attack is deflected you can usually get in another attack before you pass. If you knock them down sit there and slash away. That's another plus with one handers because in close a polearm can't reach full extension and you will deal almost no damage.
Like most things involving mounted combat you really need a fast horse. I try to stay as mobile as possible and never charge into groups of more than three.
If you hold down the attack button you can charge your swing and then release just as you pass. This makes mounted attacks much easier to land. You don't always have that luxury though as you may need your shield up if your coming at an archer.
Lastly try to attack at full speed because of the speed bonus.

Steppe Merc

06-03-2005, 23:38

I Really like this game. It took a while getting used to the controls, but it's really fun. I'm trying to get money to buy a cloth thingy for that one guy in the town that you start out with so he can join me.
I'm a hunter that specializes in horse archery. Bet you coulda guessed that. I currently have 3 other soldiers... is that enough to try and start a fight? I'm struggling trying to get money in the arena... I can win, but only sometimes...
Which side should I join Swabians or the other guys?

Alexander the Pretty Good

06-03-2005, 23:58

zelda12

06-04-2005, 00:07

Pick the Swabians as the pay is better.

Big_John

06-04-2005, 00:17

Steppe - you can take down maybe 5 river pirates by yourself, assuming you have a bow, horse, and hand-to-hand weapon. 5 other guys makes it overkill, as long as you help out in the meelee.

The two sides seem to be the same. It doesn't matter much.

I was having fun with my crossbow and company of brave foot soldiers until I leveled up. Wah! Need to get the license now...i'm thinking about getting a license, it's only 12 bucks (US) and apparently you won't have to pay more as the game is further developed. i'm a pussy about spending money, though, so i need to think it over. :undecided:

Crazed Rabbit

06-04-2005, 00:21

I always join the vaegirs, mainly cuz they're closer, and I here the quests they give are better.

@Froggy:
Increasing your athletics skill will make you run faster.

Crazed Rabbit

Thoros of Myr

06-04-2005, 01:00

The first Swadian quest I recieved was to buy 6 great helms or something. That's about 70K! Needless to say I haven't been able to finish it yet. I'm only lvl 12 though.

Kraxis

06-04-2005, 01:08

Steppe Merc, it is very much worth it for you to invest in a shield. Even a Nomad shield.

As a horse archer you can consider yourself a Turkoman or Szekely if you pack a shield and saber... And teh right armour of course. I actually had Borcha as one such for a while until I got good money (when you are able to defeat big bandit groups 'alone' you will swim in goods). I even altered his face so that he would look more eastern. It was lovely to see him scoot about as a horse archer looking like a mongol from hell. He was lousy at it though, but hey... ~D

If you keep running out of ammo keep another or even two bags in the inventory. At any time in battle you can return to the chest and exchange your current supply. I usually carry two large bags of bolts (only 21 bolts compared to 20, unlike arrows that are 24-25 compared to 20). But to use this effectively you need to have a horse so you can return fast.

I have chosen to follow the Swadians... They just looked cooler to me, you know real feudal warriors, while the Vaegirs look like barbarian raiders.

Btw, try saving some peasant women from an enemy group. It can be great fun to have them level up, they are supposedly very strong when they have leveled up a few times. I still need to do it myself. Those Sword Sisters are quite luring.

Thoros of Myr

06-04-2005, 01:14

Btw, try saving some peasant women from an enemy group. It can be great fun to have them level up, they are supposedly very strong when they have leveled up a few times. I still need to do it myself. Those Sword Sisters are quite luring.

I used to have two sword sisters in my party. They can easily go toe-to-toe with sea raiders, steppe bandits and the like. But if they get swarmed (like mine did) they die. :embarassed:

Steppe Merc

06-04-2005, 01:53

Kraxis, yeah, that was what I was thinking. Bow, then close in with saber and shield. However, lances are quite fun, but saber is easier to manuever with, at least for me.
My character is going for the Iranian nomad look (couldn't quite figure out how to do a Turkic or Mongloid features...) .Redish blond long hair, with blue eyes, and sort of scary looking.

lancer63

06-04-2005, 05:48

This game made me understand how hard it is to control a horse in combat. The game is great even if it´s not finished. My 11 y/o son shanghaied the pc for 6 hours playing tournament. He's good with sword and shield and a real mongol with the mounted bow. The mother is not so crazy about the game (that's why I haven't bought it...yet) But it's a fine way to find our male bonding. This game is here to stay. Cheers!

Kraxis

06-04-2005, 06:04

My character is going for the Iranian nomad look (couldn't quite figure out how to do a Turkic or Mongloid features...) .Redish blond long hair, with blue eyes, and sort of scary looking.
Well you won't get a true mongol, but something that looks fair enough. Besides with all the armour and the helmet...

I just gave him a short flat face (big cheekbones, non-sunken cheeks, flat semi-wide nose, short nose-mouth and chin and finally fairly wide jaw) low eyebrows, flat eyes that are slightly upturned in centrally placed. The hair and colour was easy, but the beard that a tough one, so I settled for the thinner moustache, but it isn't really good at all.

TigerVX

06-04-2005, 08:06

Bah, this game is freaking evil. Before I knew it, I had spent the $11 and and am now level 29! This is horrible! Its so addicting. I just can't help slaughter a group of deserters with my Knights and Hired Blades. My character is not yet strong enough to do more then raid Foragers and the occasional weak caravan. But just a word of advice, if your really into Horse Archery, you can sacrifice your shield slot for another quiver of arrows. I personally have about 25 armor for head, body, and feet. I then have a Nomad Saber, two large bag of arrows, and a longbow along with a heavy courser. I just can't stop shooting up unshielded foes in the head, I just need those arrows!

Rosacrux redux

06-04-2005, 09:40

Evil indeed... curse the guy who brought this up, I've downloaded it last night (took a while in my 64K connection...) started venturing around 11 (wife went early to bed, thank god) and before I even knew, it was 4 in the morning! Darn, and I had to wake up early today...

I never thought that a kind-of-RPG completely lacking any kind of story line, would hook me up so badly... It's an extremely addictive great little gem and I am going to purchase it ASAP! I am lvl 5 now and soon to become lvl 6, and I just have to keep on playing!

They got to bring this game to a higher level, they just have to. It's gonna be a big major hit for any company that takes the (whatever) risk to invest on it and release it after (letting the guys who do it right now) fleshing it out accordingly.

Some observations:

- I tried out an ex merchant as my character. Not great in battle, but starts off with some goodies you can sell for cash and get some retinue pretty early. I have skipped the bloody pirates and started the escorting and quest and of course trading business fairly soon, so now I am lvl 5 and have more than 10K, a decent set of equipment (for the lvl I am in, at least) a nice retinue and that guy from the first tavern fully outfited.

- Mounted battle is difficult. I've managed to strike a few couched lance hits in arena, but controlling the damn thing (I've now a steppe horse) is a real pain in the butt. Sometimes I just unmount and start chasing the buggers on foot...

- Archery isn't as difficult as some seem to imply... I've landed quite a number of shots in the arena, although in real combat I still have to find the way to shoot before getting massacred. Although everybody and his baby sister is a better shooter than you, in the games world.

I'll keep venturing and let you know!

screwtype

06-04-2005, 11:59

Evil indeed... curse the guy who brought this up, I've downloaded it last night (took a while in my 64K connection...) started venturing around 11 (wife went early to bed, thank god) and before I even knew, it was 4 in the morning! Darn, and I had to wake up early today...

Only 4? Hell, I didn't even go to bed last night. That's what happens when you stumble on a fun new game at 3 in the morning :laugh4:

Mounted battle is difficult. I've managed to strike a few couched lance hits in arena, but controlling the damn thing (I've now a steppe horse) is a real pain in the butt. Sometimes I just unmount and start chasing the buggers on foot...

Yeah, it's hard. I had all sorts of trouble just controlling the horse in the arena. I'm still only a level 2 character, BTW.

Archery isn't as difficult as some seem to imply... I've landed quite a number of shots in the arena, although in real combat I still have to find the way to shoot before getting massacred. Although everybody and his baby sister is a better shooter than you, in the games world.

Actually I was getting whupped in every river pirate battle until someone on this thread said you don't even need a party to beat those guys. And I realized he was right.

I have a squire mounted on an old nag who unfortunately has little bow skill and owns only a crossbow, which can't even be reloaded on horseback. However I've figured out how to beat the pirates.

What I do is gallop to one edge of the battle map and wait till the pirates arrive, then shoot from my stationary horse and race to the other edge of the battle map. This gives me time to get off the horse, load another bolt and get on the horse again. When the pirates approach, shoot the bolt, race to the opposite edge of the map once more, and repeat the whole process as often as necessary.

A side effect of this tactic is that I've become much better at controlling a horse. I'm hoping to do better in my next foray into the arena, although I agree that those lances are darned hard to aim.

econ21

06-04-2005, 12:02

Archery isn't as difficult as some seem to imply... I've landed quite a number of shots in the arena, although in real combat I still have to find the way to shoot before getting massacred. Although everybody and his baby sister is a better shooter than you, in the games world.

I find archery by far the most effective combat style. Firstly, it is relatively riskless - you don't take damage and so can fight more rounds/more battles. Second, it's reach means you can take down multiple enemies very quickly - you don't have to run around trying to get into action.

It's probably good to start off with a decent archery statistic - I chose hunter and so started at 68. I did not put many points into it after that, as it rises naturally with hits. You can buy a long bow fairly quickly.

It is hard to solo as an archer - at the beginning, I can take down 4-5 river pirates but it's hairy. The trick to avoid being massacred is to make sure they are preoccupied. When battle starts, I tap "2" to get my men to follow me and head for the steepest hill. When you are comfy, tap "1" for them to hold ground. The enemy will tend to focus on your screen of melee guys and being on a hill slows them down if they want to get you, especially the horse. You may want to go slightly to the side of your line to avoid it obstructing your vision.

I tend to focus on the infantry - enemy cav is too fast unless it's close and usually your guys can handle it. I start shooting from the moment I see them - you may get lucky - but the sweet spot tends to be just before they reach your lines. I tend to go back for a second quiver of arrows, seldom a third (mopping up is time for the sword and shield). If you hold your head you can do awful damage from really close up - there's nothing like the satisfaction of headshotting the rider who just knocked you over - but you do risk killing your own men in the scrummage.

I rather like the archery duels - like Legolas against the orcs at the Bridge at Kazadum - although I confess I am still playing on the default easy difficulty level.

frogbeastegg

06-04-2005, 12:48

frogbeastegg

06-04-2005, 14:41

Addendum to that last post: About twenty minutes after I posted the game crashed with a dialogue about horses and would I like to cancel, retry, or ignore. Heh, nothing and no big problem, I thought, given that the game's a beta and all. I picked ignore, and the message kept on generating. So I tried retry; it rebooted my PC instantly. I have only just got my PC working correctly again. It was messed up so badly windows dropped into a black screen instead of the desktop when starting up; only safe mode worked correctly. Unsurprisingly the game is now off my system and will never get back on it, and I'm very glad I decided to play my second character up to level 6 before buying.

So a warning to everyone still playing - if you are shown an error message in battle and are given the choice between cancel, ignore and retry for heaven's sake don't pick retry! Much pain follows if you do..

Shame; it was getting to be very good.

zelda12

06-04-2005, 14:49

Don't give up, its really a very stable game considering its only just half completed and still in Beta.

Mongoose

06-04-2005, 16:49

GAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! Has that being happening to anyone else??? :hide:

Any way, this game is every thing that the LOTR games should have been ~:thumb: I just hope i don't have to uninstall it...

Dutch_guy

06-04-2005, 17:23

Never happend to me Mongoose, no CDT is my games.

To bad you have to pay when you get to level 6 , and why couldn,t they just let you play on when you get to level 6, that would have been great.
Now it just saves and returns to the desktop.

I may get the full game though, the concept is great and it's only just in beta fase , so I may get it when I get the money.

:balloon2:

Kraxis

06-04-2005, 17:50

Only experienced CTDs when ordering the troops to mount up. That order is bugged, and it is recognized. So don't do that.

Since I'm a crossbower I actually like to shoot at cavalry, it simply looks so great when you hit them and they fall off and are dragged for a distance.
When cavalry gets close it is important to have the shield ready, just in case... But I prefer to load up the crossbow for one last shot. Seeing the enemy is charging at you with the shield up, there is no point in shooting just yet (and this is where the crossbow shines), just keep the aim up until he drops the shield. He has to do it to strike you with the weapon, then shoot. More often than not I kill the cavalryman, but with better horses you run the risk of getting flattened by the horse (it doesn't stop and you will suffer damage).
When doing that I feel like a real crossbowman in a battle where the enemy knights are bearing down on his unit... Ahh MTW in FPS.

Big_John

06-04-2005, 18:18

Only experienced CTDs when ordering the troops to mount up. That order is bugged, and it is recognized. So don't do that.really? i'm positive that on at least one occaision, i ordered my men to dismount and then mount up again...

Rosacrux redux

06-04-2005, 18:19

Update: I am now lvl 9, and of course I've had the first of a series of fight regarding this game with my dear spouse (she absolutely hates computer games btw and me being as hooked on this as I am, is not helping things).

I am getting better at mounted battle, but still fair much better on foot. I've upped some difficulty settings, to make the game more challenging and now I get whooped more frequently.

Did I mention this is a great little game and that I absolutely despise the guy who brought this up in here? I mean, hell on Monday I am starting a new job and I absolutely have to prepare a few things on the weekend... like 6-7 hours work and there is not a chance in hell I am going to do it? Because of this bloody game!!!

I love it!

I do know though that the fact that the quests are few and very repetitive and the game world is everything but fleshed out AND there is not even a main plot, means I will get unhooked from it pretty quickly (like... after 50 or 70 hours of playing that is!). I only can imagine how addictive the finished product shall be... frightening, really.

Big_John

06-04-2005, 18:26

I am getting better at mounted battle, but still fair much better on foot.if i have a fast horse and a bardiche in hand.. i can really do serious damage.. more so than on foot (i'm kind of impatient with using my shield lol).

Steppe Merc

06-04-2005, 18:42

The horses in the arena are horrible... they can't turn at all! And do all horses do so little damage when they knock down an infantry? The creator obviosly doesn't have much experience with horses... heavy critters. If you get charged by one, you're gonna hurt more than just getting knocked down!

Crazed Rabbit

06-04-2005, 20:34

If you get hit with a better horse, you'll be getting more damage. The charge skill on the arena horses is probably 5-7. On the best warhorses, it can go as high as 30 or so I think.

Right now my character has a war shield, Saber (or heavy mace, or longsword), javelins, and a great axe. And boy, the great axe is awesome. I ride right towards the enemy and swing at them as they go by and 1/3 of the time kill their horse on the first pass (leaving them very vulnerable to my infantry.) And if they stay on the horse, I go around for another pass (I've got a spirited courser, which is faster than most of the knight's horses) and bam! It's swadian knight down, or dark knight down. If they're fast and avoid me, I take out the old javelins and throw in the back.

And you never have a true appreciation for how hard it is to throw something like a javelin at a horse until you try it in game (provided you haven't in real life).

Right now I've got about 20 men and am raiding enemy (swadian) caravans. It nets several k denar a time, and I'm fast enough to avoid the big swadian war parties.

Boy, I love this game

Just one query:, anyone know where it stores the screenshots it takes?

Crazed Rabbit

Alexander the Pretty Good

06-04-2005, 21:50

I'm a low down, rotten, scalawag crossbowman. I sit my party (a whole bunch of mounted mercs and hired blades) down on a hill far away, and snipe at those pirates and bandits. When they get too close...

Charge!

I completed my first caravan mission (very easy, no one attacked) and levelled up to 6. Gah.

zelda12

06-04-2005, 22:10

These two I have entitled, "Mess with the best, die like the rest."

http://img134.echo.cx/img134/8770/47hd.th.jpg (http://img134.echo.cx/my.php?image=47hd.jpg)
http://img254.echo.cx/img254/6812/55mv1.th.jpg (http://img254.echo.cx/my.php?image=55mv1.jpg)

Thats with my new ranger character with his Khergit Bow. ~:) Every single pirate died from my bow. All 30 of them. :balloon2:

And now a before and after shot.

Before.
http://img46.echo.cx/img46/8195/64cu.th.jpg (http://img46.echo.cx/my.php?image=64cu.jpg)

After.
http://img236.echo.cx/img236/433/78cj.th.jpg (http://img236.echo.cx/my.php?image=78cj.jpg)

And I have strange suspicions that my first character has Robin Hood Complex. ~:)
http://img14.echo.cx/img14/7269/88jd.th.jpg (http://img14.echo.cx/my.php?image=88jd.jpg)

the tokai

06-04-2005, 22:32

Wow this game is great! I've been playing it since last friday and have reached level 6 for the fifth time.
I love mounted combat, especially with a great lance. About 10 minutes ago I actually managed to kill 3 men in a row :shocked: here's the proof: https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v634/stijntje72/GCS0786.jpg

Pausanias828

06-04-2005, 22:53

I originally downloaded the demo about 2 and a weeks ago, and bought it on the bank holiday Monday, and it was a great way to spend about £8, especially when you consider this is basically a husband and wife team making this game. ~:cheers:

I had a hell of a lot of trouble fighting on horseback to start off with, not that I am great now, but I am certainly better, although I tend to use only a Balanced Longsword, and a Steel Shield, even though I do have a lance in my Inventory. I think with my next level points I will improve my horsemanship even though my Swaybacked Hunter is a lovely creature, and is the best I have had so far. In my current game I have decided not to officially ally with either side, even though my party is made up mainly of Vaegir units.

I don't tend to play games like this, most of the time I tend to play just RTS/TBS games, but I am so glad I tried it out.

On the matter of CTD's I seem to just get a random one every now and again, but they don't seem to be related to any particular event, area command etc. And as it's only a Beta, you have to accept there are going to be some problems, as one of the main points of Beta is to make sure the final release is as stable as possible. I can't wait for the next update.

frogbeastegg

06-04-2005, 23:34

Don't give up, its really a very stable game considering its only just half completed and still in Beta.
It took nearly 2 hours to get my PC working again, and I very nearly lost plenty of work on my assorted bits of writing, plus a set of significant additions to my extremely time consuming to put together collection of assorted easy reference historical notes on just about every subject a writer might need. I back up to CD regularly, but saving each file to floppy as well as to hard drive each time I edit anything is the only way my backups could stay up to date. But the files are all too large to fit on floppy - 100MB total! Even my manuscript for Eleanor is too big to fit on a floppy now. So I really can't afford to take chances; even one line of text lost is going to be very tough to replace. I'd have to work from memory and try to piece together and approximation, and that's assuming I could even remember what was lost.

Looking at the M&B forum a few others have reported the same error (if anyone's interested this (http://taleworlds.com/v-web/bulletin/bb/viewtopic.php?t=1322) is the topic.) I experienced, but none of them had anything worse than an unexpected reboot. Also, at least two people found the error came when issuing mount/dismount orders. I hadn't done that; I've issued those commands frequently without problems. It's supposed to be fixed in the next version. I would hope so, but I'm not sure I want to risk trying and seeing. I like the game, and it's very stable, especially for a beta, but when it goes it does more damage than anything I've seen since the old days of windows 98.

Lehesu

06-05-2005, 00:17

Thoros of Myr

06-05-2005, 03:25

Sorry to hear that people are having problems with the game. :( It's been flawless for me thus far, but now that I said that it will probably crash. :)

I just lost my entire army of 10 Swadian Knights, 5 Men at arms, and 5 Swadian Sharpshooters because of one little tactical mistake! Wow, I love this game :D

I'm up to lvl 14 now. I think sharpshooters are my favorite guys to have around right now. They can make some insane shots that put a big grin on your face. I usually follow them around and try to keep horsemen off them while they clean up everything in sight. I'm trying to find a better sword but it seems rare to find them in shops or even as loot so far. What do you guys think is the best overall one-hander?

Kraxis

06-05-2005, 04:06

Just tonight I have seen possibly the strangest and funniest arrows sticking out.

First I had a Sharpshooter with an arrow right in his hindquarters. That looked absolutely hilarious when he ran about.
Another one had an arrow right though his knee from the side, thus it looked like his legs were connected.

Finally I saw an enemy with that famous arrow though the side of the head, you know like those things you put on. And he was even alive!!!! ~D

Finally I took my chances with my big thick steel shield and stood out in front of a steppe bandit army and just let them have a go at me with ranged weapons... Boy did that shield look like something that was alive and growing. ~:cool: But then again it was brought down to 64 points out of 867.

screwtype

06-05-2005, 12:05

I have annoying issues with the game when I quit. After quiting, all attempts to access other parts of my computer yield an error message that refuses to go away. I am forced to reboot. Quite annoying, and I don't play the game anymore.

Yes, I have a similar problem, the game seems to cause every other program to quit with an "illegal operation" error message.

However, the game itself runs just about flawlessly.

If you're having problems, I would suggest shutting down all the other programs that are currently running (except of course the essential ones). After I shut down my antivirus program and zonealarm it seemed to work much better - but yes I still get the error messages from multiple other programs while or after running the game.
It doesn't bother me though, I just do a reboot after running the game, no problem.

BTW I'm running 98SE. What are you using?

screwtype

06-05-2005, 12:34

The horses in the arena are horrible... they can't turn at all!

I've found that the best way to get a slow horse to turn quicker is to pull it up first and then turn it. They can't gallop and turn very well at the same time.

Lehesu

06-05-2005, 15:39

Yes, I have a similar problem, the game seems to cause every other program to quit with an "illegal operation" error message.

However, the game itself runs just about flawlessly.

If you're having problems, I would suggest shutting down all the other programs that are currently running (except of course the essential ones). After I shut down my antivirus program and zonealarm it seemed to work much better - but yes I still get the error messages from multiple other programs while or after running the game.
It doesn't bother me though, I just do a reboot after running the game, no problem.

BTW I'm running 98SE. What are you using?

Sounds like my problem. I'm running ME.

Lechev

06-05-2005, 16:13

Yep the game is a rare gem and i had bought the license. Btw, i am using XP and i do not have any problems running the game. No ctd or likewise issue ~;)

Sethik

06-05-2005, 17:53

The first Swadian quest I recieved was to buy 6 great helms or something. That's about 70K! Needless to say I haven't been able to finish it yet. I'm only lvl 12 though.

True, but the reward for those types of quests is double what you spent to buy the items. So if you do pass it, you'll get 140k!

This game is amazing. I'm currently running around with 14 Swandian Knights. Nothing can stop me! I steam roll through anything and the money just keeps on piling in! Right now I'm trying to raise in rank by doing some quests for the Swads. I'm thinking of taking on a Veigar war party (54+ men) soon!

Big_John

06-05-2005, 19:24

Yep the game is a rare gem and i had bought the license. Btw, i am using XP and i do not have any problems running the game. No ctd or likewise issue ~;)i second this.. using xp (specs are athlon 2500+, 1 gig ram, radeon 9800pro) the game is entirely stable, so far. hasn't crashed once.

BDC

06-05-2005, 19:35

Just bought it. Really good.

I can get the lance to crouch in the arena, but out in the real world it won't. Is this because my horse is too rubbish?

Kraxis

06-05-2005, 19:42

Just bought it. Really good.

I can get the lance to crouch in the arena, but out in the real world it won't. Is this because my horse is too rubbish?
Most likely... If it can't gallop or at least run at speed 8 it is too slow. Also inclines will slow you down, so trying to charge that man standing on a small hill is perhaps not the greatest idea concieved.

RabidGibbon

06-05-2005, 20:17

Re: Stability, I'm running it on XP and had one CTD in about a weeks worth of play.

Happened when I ordered my men to mount up, which I believe is a bug they plan to correct in the next update.

Although thinking about it my computer didn't just CTD, it restarted itself too and then said it had just recovered from a major error....

Scary Stuff :hide:

Still a brilliant game though

Big King Sanctaphrax

06-05-2005, 20:25

This is freakin' awesome. I've reached level six, and I'm going to buy it.

Damn my finding out about this in an exam week!

Question-is there any difference between the various factions' troops? For example, are Swadian militia (second level troop) better than watchmen (also second level troop) or are the watchmen better, or are they the same?

econ21

06-05-2005, 22:07

Question-is there any difference between the various factions' troops? For example, are Swadian militia (second level troop) better than watchmen (also second level troop) or are the watchmen better, or are they the same?

Watchmen are "neutral", I think. Personally, I prefer the Swadians - their crossbows seems very lethal whereas I have not noticed similar firepower in the Vaegars (sp?). Whenever I fight Swadian deserters, I tend to lose my knights. :help:

Kraxis

06-05-2005, 23:00

Whenever I fight Swadian deserters, I tend to lose my knights. :help:
Which is why I try not to engage them.

I do believe that the Swadian troops are better in general. They look like they have better equipment than their Vaegir counterparts, especially the knights.
Watchmen are not great, but they can become the best 3rd tier unit I can think of. The Caravan Guard. They are quite heavy and strong, yet only one advance up. But their other upgrades aren't as spectacular, so I think they end up just a little lower than the Swadian Knights. But Hired Blades are damn nice still.

Lehesu

06-05-2005, 23:29

BKS, since when were you made moderator? Damn, I have been here entirely too long and have been entirely out of touch in all the other forums except the Arena.

Big King Sanctaphrax

06-05-2005, 23:40

BKS, since when were you made moderator? Damn, I have been here entirely too long and have been entirely out of touch in all the other forums except the Arena.

A couple of months ago. I'm prepared to grant a Kikkoman amnesty!

Thoros of Myr

06-06-2005, 00:49

True, but the reward for those types of quests is double what you spent to buy the items. So if you do pass it, you'll get 140k!

In that case I will try to finish the mission ~D I was worried about spending that kind of money and getting a measly reward.

And who else is playing on max (107%) difficulty? ~:cool:

Crazed Rabbit

06-06-2005, 03:37

Not I. How do you get it up that high? Even with normal damage it isn't that high for me.

It seems some are having problems-in some cases very severe. So far I haven't had any, and I am using XP. Perhaps it is OS related?

One time I got a mission, as a level 10 fighter(or higher) to get 4 cleavers. Those things only cost about 50 denars! The only hard part was finding four.

Crazed Rabbit

GoreBag

06-06-2005, 03:49

I do believe that the Swadian troops are better in general. They look like they have better equipment than their Vaegir counterparts, especially the knights.

Vaegir Skirmishers are pretty good units, but I'm not sure if the other "3rd level" counterpart is superior.

Sethik

06-06-2005, 03:58

Vagier Knights man not have as good of armor as their Swadian counterparts, but they all wield two handed axes. This things can cause major damage when used right.

frogbeastegg

06-06-2005, 09:41

Since the question of OSes and performance has come up, I'm using XP. Also P4 2.4, radeon 9800 pro, 1024MB DDR RAM, SB live! 5.1. Performance was great aside from that devastating crash. I was getting FPS in the 150's most of the time, and not a single hitch.

Gah! The more I read this thread the more I want to download another copy and reinstall. Some days I hate this job :blankg:

Thoros of Myr

06-06-2005, 11:55

Not I. How do you get it up that high? Even with normal damage it isn't that high for me.

Do you also have combat AI on good? The only other thing is I selected the realistic save mode whereby you must save the game whenever you quit.

Crazed Rabbit

06-06-2005, 18:11

Hmm, it must be the unrealistic save mode that does it for me. Oh well, call me wimpy.

I'm using a P4 1.3, Geforce 2 MX, and 300~Mb ram. It works well enough on the camp map, but the fps can drop to 10-15 in the middle of large battles.

Crazed Rabbit

Lehesu

06-06-2005, 19:41

A couple of months ago. I'm prepared to grant a Kikkoman amnesty!
Exxxcelent. Just give me a date and a time to strike...

Crazed Rabbit

06-06-2005, 22:04

Man, I love javelins. A fun thing to do is riding up to swadian x-bow men and nailing them in the head, like this:

http://img10.echo.cx/img10/9106/mbheadshots2sz.th.jpg (http://img10.echo.cx/my.php?image=mbheadshots2sz.jpg)
Here you can see where I got 2 headshots in a row.

However, the best has to be nailing an oncoming knight in the head, taking him out before he gets to swing his weapon once!

Plus, throwing weapons like javs and axes are great foot weapons, though they have small missile capacity.

Man, I love this game.

Crazed Rabbit

Big King Sanctaphrax

06-06-2005, 22:26

Man, I love javelins.

Yes, javelins are great. I just started using them instead of my crossbow, because I was focusing more on mounted combat, and I can use them and still have space for a lance, sword and shield. Crossbow's not much good on a horse either.

screwtype

06-07-2005, 05:37

Does anyone know whether injured horses recover over time? I had a cool spirited courser in my last game with a speed of 11 and he got hit a few times and I had a sense he was slowing down, then after one battle I happened to see his stats and he was down to a speed of 6 and listed as a "lame courser"!

Do lame horses get better? Or are they permanently lame? Do horses recover at all over time as long they don't reach lame status?

Also, anyone know if it helps party speed if you have an extra horse in your inventory to help distribute the weight?

Magraev

06-07-2005, 06:36

The horse will recover after a long time (as long as 30 days I've heard or as little as 4-6). Unfortunately it won't be spirited any longer.

desdichado

06-07-2005, 07:37

Do you also have combat AI on good? The only other thing is I selected the realistic save mode whereby you must save the game whenever you quit.

yeah that'll do it - normal damage, good AI and realistic saving is 107% I think.

Had to start a new campaign after my last one got bugged - had restart problems when I tried to load one particular campaign only - got the message to either retry, abort or ignore - only abort would work and that would rstart computer. Other saved games we're ok and new one seems fine for moment.

shame I lost that campaign cause I had a nice crew of Vaegir knights and was pretty heavily armoured myself riding a spirited courser (he was so fast nobody could catch me)- my dismounted run speed was horrible (too much heavy armour) so if i got knocked off I had to wait for enemy to attack me.

Lost most of a weekend to this game but I now understand what medeival knights were on about - nothing better than riding down a bunch of bandits at full speed with my fellow knights beside me! :charge:

Even managed to take about about 6-7 pirates solo with javelins and axes thrown from horseback at full gallop - that was a bunch of fun. takes a while to get it right - now I just have to figure out horse archery for my new character.

only complaint so far is I can't seem too choose exactly which guys to take into battle with me - I once decided to save some peasant women from some sea raiders (hoping their 'gratitude' might up my mens morale) so needless to say my starting force was me, 2 footmen and a bunch of peasants and their wives - against sea raiders we got whomped and I barely survived until my relief force arrived.

still haven't enjoyed a game this much since mtw.

econ21

06-07-2005, 09:10

Also, anyone know if it helps party speed if you have an extra horse in your inventory to help distribute the weight?

I believe it does, yes. Indeed, I think party speed depends on the average speed of your party including spare horses. Once I was escorting 7 steppe horses for a quest and my party was pretty fast.

There's a fair amount of depth in this game. I only found out yesterday that bludgeoning and piercing damage halves the effectiveness of armour. Time to put away that sword...

Efrem

06-07-2005, 09:51

No, I used to think they did, but after selling off the 5 horses in my inventory and having an identical speed I realised they didn't.

asilv

06-07-2005, 12:34

Extra horses help only if you are carrying so much stuff that it would slow you down.

The horse will recover after a long time (as long as 30 days I've heard or as little as 4-6). Unfortunately it won't be spirited any longer.
Apparently having high wound treatment skill speeds recovery.

The Scourge

06-07-2005, 12:54

only complaint so far is I can't seem too choose exactly which guys to take into battle with me - I once decided to save some peasant women from some sea raiders (hoping their 'gratitude' might up my mens morale) so needless to say my starting force was me, 2 footmen and a bunch of peasants and their wives - against sea raiders we got whomped and I barely survived until my relief force arrived.

still haven't enjoyed a game this much since mtw.

I think if you go into your party screen ,when in world map view ,you can give priority ,to which troops you start with.
You know those tags that say ;move up one slot ,down one slot .
Haven't tried it yet ,because the default set up seems to be your best men ,which suits me .
Maybe if you're trying to save peasants ,you can't ,which I think would make sense.

Big_John

06-07-2005, 17:37

I think if you go into your party screen ,when in world map view ,you can give priority ,to which troops you start with.
You know those tags that say ;move up one slot ,down one slot .
Haven't tried it yet ,because the default set up seems to be your best men ,which suits me .
Maybe if you're trying to save peasants ,you can't ,which I think would make sense.yeah, that's right. i actually put my weaker troops up front, often, so they can get more experience (kill experience).

Sethik

06-07-2005, 20:03

A great way to get money in the beginning of the game is to fight in the arena until you have around 1k or 2k then by a cheap horse and ride for the salt mine. Spend all of your cash there and fill up with salt. Go back to Zender to sell for 2.5 times the price! After a trip or two I had around 4k or 5k!

Afterwards go buy some Swadian Militia (Or Veiger) and hunt river pirates and even mountain bandits for a while until they level up to Swadian Men-at-Arms/Knights. At this point you should be able to fight against more powerful mob groups.

zelda12

06-07-2005, 20:08

For those of us who are dabbling in the art of the Horse Archer may I draw your attention to a mod over at the M&B forums.

http://taleworlds.com/v-web/bulletin/bb/viewtopic.php?t=1609&start=0

Thats right! You can now field an entirely horsearcher army for battle! ~D

Steppe Merc

06-07-2005, 21:48

I'm finally getting good at this game! I got myself a spirited steppe horse, a lance, a khergit armour and a steppe bow. I was having a lot of fun riding past my enemies, peppering them with arrows, then charging them down with a lance!

Spino

06-07-2005, 22:42

It took roughly one week for this little 35meg game to generate 5 pages worth of posts here at the Org! Simply amazing!

For taking on a party of Huns.... err, Khergit horsemen (or Steppe Bandits for that matter) nothing beats a Spirited Hunter horse; it will catch anything on four legs, turn on a dime and is thick skinned to boot. Spirited Hunters are ideal for rapidly closing the distance between fleet footed horse archers who like to keep their distance and snipe at you and your men. With a Spirited Hunter it takes no time at all for you to catch up and get on their 'blind' side where you can hack them to death without getting a missile in the face. However, most of the time I use a Heavy Charger, it's 36 Charge rating is fantastic and its armor will absorb most minor blows. With a Charger you can knock down anything on two legs at will and can bowl over entire groups of men if you're galloping at a decent speed. I'd love to have a Spirited Charger but I have yet to see one for sale anywhere.

I do have to say that I think Steppe Horses should have the best Turn/Maneuver ratings of all the horses in the game. Those breeds may not be the swiftest but they really can turn on a dime.

Steppe Merc

06-07-2005, 23:07

And I think they should start with an 8, as opposed to a 7 in speed (fortuanatly, my spirited has 8). Cause they may not have been the fastest, but they sure as hell could support a rider using a lance. They were also very tough, and could move a long distance better than European horses. Perhaps they should give better map move speed?

L'Impresario

06-07-2005, 23:42

Sweet Realistic Medieval Combat indeed. 'Nuff said. And I learned about this game only a few days after I moaned about the lack of realistic medieval RPGs. Heavensent this game is heh
Now, I wonder whether there are some efficient anti-cav measures that one can take, apart from breaking enemy charges by means of missile, or using some form of zweihänder while the horse rides by. Something more in the sense of a spear/pike hedge, where you set your weapon to receive a charge rather than trying actively to chase the rider or kill the mount. I looked a bit at the forums, but I don't remember finding an answer.
Maybe it's reserved for M&B2, where in its mp mode people can form along with their companions nice spear-forests:)

Big_John

06-07-2005, 23:59

archery is fun. lancing people in the face got a little boring for me, so now i'm practicing other skills. i wish the battles were harder, though. khergit and dark hunters (or whatever they're called) put up good fights, but generally, that just means a few of my men get killed.. i've only lost most of my men like once.. and i'm lvl 25! once i did get my spirited charger lanced out from under me though.. that was pretty wicked, because i was behind the enemy, and my men were holding position. i got up and was surrounded by 8-10 bandits. it was fun waiting for my men to save me while i hid behind my steel shield. literally, as it was down to ~50/800, a swadian knight and a sword sister came riding through the group of bandits, and we went ape-house on them.
http://users.telenet.be/eforum/emoticons4u/violent/sterb239.gif

can't wait to see what the devs do with future versions. i wish axes did more damage to shields.. i mean, when i'm charging and swinging my great axe with a ~40% speed bonus, it should just shatter the weaker shields outright. as it is, i prefer the sword of war to the great axe.

oh, btw, can couched lances be blocked with shields? also, are jarids are worth the power throw point?

The Tuffen

06-08-2005, 00:43

I'm hooked as well. Only lvl 8 at the moment but getting there. I love charging enemies on horse back and attacking them with my sword.

Alexander the Pretty Good

06-08-2005, 03:15

I found two sound mods for this game. One generally improves battlefield noises, and the other (tries) to increase the sound of horse hooves.

They can both be found here. (http://taleworlds.com/v-web/bulletin/bb/viewtopic.php?t=1598&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0)
Just extract the .zip files into the "Sound" folder in the Mount & Blade directory. I like the mods - the new sounds are pretty good, and a step up from the vanilla sounds.

~:cheers:

Zalmoxis

06-08-2005, 03:29

I've gotten to level 6 twice so far, and on my second used court lady with Bouche, and even got heradric armor shortly before level 6. So, my question is, is the game worth the money, or will it oly shortly keep your attention?

Sethik

06-08-2005, 05:21

Game is definatly worth the 12 bucks. Its just so simple and addictive!

Sweet Realistic Medieval Combat indeed. 'Nuff said. And I learned about this game only a few days after I moaned about the lack of realistic medieval RPGs. Heavensent this game is heh
Now, I wonder whether there are some efficient anti-cav measures that one can take, apart from breaking enemy charges by means of missile, or using some form of zweihänder while the horse rides by. Something more in the sense of a spear/pike hedge, where you set your weapon to receive a charge rather than trying actively to chase the rider or kill the mount. I looked a bit at the forums, but I don't remember finding an answer.
Maybe it's reserved for M&B2, where in its mp mode people can form along with their companions nice spear-forests:)

My bane when on horseback are those npcs that have spears or polearms. I can't reach them with my Sword of War without them striking first. Polearms, if used properly, have a great advantage over horseback.

screwtype

06-08-2005, 05:26

Extra horses help only if you are carrying so much stuff that it would slow you down.

Yes, that's what I wanted the extra horses for. I find if I fill my saddlebags with salt or some other product, my party (just me) goes from a speed of 10.5 to around 6.

I have discovered that extra horses in the party will help you carry those goods at a faster speed, however they don't give you as much of a speed boost as you might expect. My character currently has three horses in his inventory (including his mount) but top speed is still only around 8 with full saddlebags.

screwtype

06-08-2005, 05:38

Crossbow's not much good on a horse either.

I've made very good use of a crossbow from a mount. In my last session I despatched a bunch of a dozen river pirates with just 15 bolts, hey man I'm getting pretty good at those headshots :)

Crossbows are not so useful when your opponents are mounted tho, although if you have a fast enough horse you can still find time to stop and reload. But it is a bit of nuisance.

I'm starting to think about using melee from horseback more. I've been reluctant to do that for fear of injury to my expensive horse, but I got pretty good results from it in my last party combat, just riding around bopping footbound sea raiders from horseback while avoiding the enemy's mounted troops. Ranged weapons aren't so useful in party melee because it's hard to get a bead without the risk of shooting one of your own. By the time you've got off one or two clear shots the battle can be over.

So what I've done now is get hold of a jousting lance, not only because it knocks opponents out for capture, but also because it has a very long reach of 200 plus which should give a substantial advantage. Now I've just got to learn how to use the darned thing :)

screwtype

06-08-2005, 12:05

I just started getting into party combat and it's really hard, a lot harder than fighting by yourself! My party invariably gets slaughtered, in spite of the fact that on paper they're a pretty good mixture of knights, horsemen and veterans. Makes no difference, after every combat, even the ones where we outnumber the enemy, everyone in my party gets killed and maybe one or two of the enemy get killed.

I can't figure out what to do in these combats either. The enemy run around too fast to be easily snagged with ranged weapons. I've tried attacking the ranged enemy units on horseback, but even when you hit them they turn around and shoot you in the back after you've ridden past. Two hits from a bow or crossbow and you're dead!

Sometimes I think the best thing I could do is get off the horse and just mix it up in melee, at least I might take a couple out before I go, but there doesn't seem to be an easy formula either for staying alive or for damaging enemy units.

Anyone got any hints or tips?

The Scourge

06-08-2005, 12:35

Anyone got any hints or tips?

How strong and well armoured are you?
Get your-self a good fast horse ,and learn to use the command buttons.
I usually take my men up a hill ,and put them men on hold position while I scout out the lay of the land .
Timing of the charge is also very important .
I almost always try to take their cavalry first ,as your own squad will go for the nearest enemys ,and often get caught in the rear or scattered around place ,if running after cavalry.
So after I've taken care of their cavalry .I use my own horse to harry their foot troops ,and make sure they are the ones that are scattered.

BDC

06-08-2005, 12:53

My merchant gets massacred pretty regularly. 9 river hunters managed to kill me and my 12 fairly good quality men because all my horsemen charged straight into a narrow river valley and got themselves chopped up. :(

econ21

06-08-2005, 13:07

Anyone got any hints or tips?

Find a nearby hill, hit "2" and lead your men up there. Being on a hill will slow down the enemy, especially the cavalry. Then hit "1". Your shooters will stand and shoot while your horse and melee foot will only engage when the enemy is close. You'll tend to have a concentration of force against the straggling AI army. Tactics skill helps here too.

Personally, I like ranged fire - get some Swadians and train them up the skirmisher to sharpshooter path. They will do a lot of damage and are not that weak in melee. Training skill is cumulative, so you and the two NPCs can all invest in it for fast upgrading of troops.

I like archery myself. Start off with a background that gives you a decent skill or otherwise get to 80+ archery. It will rise with kills after that. I don't bother targeting bandit cavalry much - they are too fast and not that dangerous. I'll take out the odd annoying one who gets too close or survives too long. But generally, my mounted men take care of them.

I focus on the enemy infantry and start shooting as soon as I see them. I usually miss most of the time early on, but have resupplies of arrows in the inventory. If they are heading straight for you, they are not hard to hit closer up. I and my Swadians pick them off as my mounted men get among them. I may have to position myself to the side or in front of my men to get a clear view, but often it's ok on the top of the hill. I focus on the AI infantry that is shooting first, then the others without shields or the ones who have exposed their backs/flanks to me as they chase my horse. It's a waste shooting at the ones approaching you with shield up.

If you put Borsha and Marnid on horse, they can take some of the blows that could otherwise kill your mounted men. They tend to charge off despite the hold position order and often fall unconscious early in the battle, but the disruption they cause is good and anyway it's better them getting a bump on the head than a dead knight or two.

screwtype

06-08-2005, 14:27

Find a nearby hill, hit "2" and lead your men up there. Being on a hill will slow down the enemy, especially the cavalry. Then hit "1". Your shooters will stand and shoot while your horse and melee foot will only engage when the enemy is close. You'll tend to have a concentration of force against the straggling AI army. Tactics skill helps here too.

Yeah I do that already but I find they seem to wander off. Often they will manage to take down the enemy's cavalry charge which doesn't wait for the foot soldiers but after that my crap party just seems to get totally murdered in the affray while doing little to no damage themselves. It's really annoying.

Personally, I like ranged fire - get some Swadians and train them up the skirmisher to sharpshooter path. They will do a lot of damage and are not that weak in melee. Training skill is cumulative, so you and the two NPCs can all invest in it for fast upgrading of troops.

This could be one mistake I've made. I've been going for horsemen and knights for the extra speed, but I agree that ranged units are pretty darned powerful in this game.

I like archery myself. Start off with a background that gives you a decent skill or otherwise get to 80+ archery. It will rise with kills after that. I don't bother targeting bandit cavalry much - they are too fast and not that dangerous. I'll take out the odd annoying one who gets too close or survives too long. But generally, my mounted men take care of them.

I focus on the enemy infantry and start shooting as soon as I see them. I usually miss most of the time early on, but have resupplies of arrows in the inventory. If they are heading straight for you, they are not hard to hit closer up. I and my Swadians pick them off as my mounted men get among them. I may have to position myself to the side or in front of my men to get a clear view, but often it's ok on the top of the hill. I focus on the AI infantry that is shooting first, then the others without shields or the ones who have exposed their backs/flanks to me as they chase my horse. It's a waste shooting at the ones approaching you with shield up.

Yeah, I've done all that, except I'm using a crossbow instead of a bow. They've got much greater damage. You do have to dismount to use one but that should theoretically make you a smaller target. All the same those damned enemy bowmen always seem to get me first, mainly because I'm outnumbered by them.

Probably the most successful battle I've fought so far is one where I just rode around at top speed slashing everyone with my sabre. Me and my guys won that really handsomely, and I suspect there is some sort of algorithm in the game that multiplies the success of the rest of your party by your own success. But then when I tried it another time those blasted bowmen cut me down.

If you put Borsha and Marnid on horse, they can take some of the blows that could otherwise kill your mounted men. They tend to charge off despite the hold position order and often fall unconscious early in the battle, but the disruption they cause is good and anyway it's better them getting a bump on the head than a dead knight or two.

Ah, those marvellous heroes. Somehow miraculously only ever manage to get knocked out! Obviously Mr Armanag's commitment to realism isn't all that great :laugh4:

The Scourge

06-08-2005, 14:28

Also a good idea to pick the battle field ,according to your preferred tactics.
With my currant knight heavy squad .I like flat open terrain .
Most of the time (Unless you're right in the thick of it.)
you can refuse battle ,and pull your army back and go in when the field is more to your liking.

screwtype

06-08-2005, 14:56

Hey, that's a good idea Scourge. I hadn't thought of that. Although it does strike me that this method might be considered something of a cheat...

econ21

06-08-2005, 15:10

All the same those damned enemy bowmen always seem to get me first, mainly because I'm outnumbered by them.

Well, this is one thing you can control - your exposure to enemy fire. When it gets excessive, you can use a reverse slope defence or just peak around the corner of your hill, taking them out one at a time.

But that won't help with your main problem - that your mounted men get cut down. I agree with your assessment - it sounds like you need some ranged troops. Kinda like the British army's response to the swarms of Napoleonic French skirmishers - get more of your own and better ones too.

I find it very tough fighting Swadian deserters with armies of 20-30 crossbowmen. They kill my knights and so, like Kraxis said earlier in this thread, I avoid giving battle to them.

I rather like the balance of arms in the this game - neither cav, nor shooters, nor melee infantry are obviously superior. Personally, I like a roughly 50:50 mix of cav and shooters.

Dutch_guy

06-08-2005, 16:30

I find it very tough fighting Swadian deserters with armies of 20-30 crossbowmen. They kill my knights and so, like Kraxis said earlier in this thread, I avoid giving battle to them.

well I have found these army's to be very annoying also , so what I do is just pay them, it usually costs you 1500-2000 and the funny part is , that you don't lose ANY gold at all , this is a bug I guess.
Don't know if any one else has experienced this ( BTW I'am still playing the trial version )

As for army mix, I usually go all infantry with a couple of skirmishers,with these kind of army's I have beaten lot's of army's mostly Khergit Raiders ( because they are all horse army's easy to beat when bogged down )

:balloon2:

Big_John

06-08-2005, 18:25

Yeah, I've done all that, except I'm using a crossbow instead of a bow. They've got much greater damage. You do have to dismount to use one but that should theoretically make you a smaller target.remember though, bows don't take half as long to reload, so the damage-per-second difference isn't that great. with a good horse archery skill (like 3 at least) you can become a deadly, mobile sniping machine! :rifle:

i once killed 3 bandits that were chasing me on horseback.. swiveled all the way around, and 3 bodkins later, three horses were bandit-less. :charge:

BDC

06-08-2005, 20:55

The Tuffen

06-08-2005, 21:11

Hehe, level 9 already on my new character. Don't go merchant, it takes absolutely ages to do anything and the money you make will be lost because you are too inept to shoot anything that attacks you. It takes ages going between cities too. It needs a time-accelerate button.

I'm playing a merchant at the moment. At the moment he's kicking ass (then again i'm playing on easy).

He's already got 16000 in gold and has loads of cool equipment as well.

Steppe Merc

06-08-2005, 21:31

Although it does strike me that this method might be considered something of a cheat...
Not at all! The Mongols and other steppe forces always choose their ground,. and wouldn't fight unless they wanted to. Why shouldn't you?

screwtype

06-09-2005, 04:52

Well, this is one thing you can control - your exposure to enemy fire. When it gets excessive, you can use a reverse slope defence or just peak around the corner of your hill, taking them out one at a time.

Yeah, I've done that too. It's something you learn quite early in this game - to make yourself as small a target as possible.

But I've figured out what the main problem was. I was just fighting against a bunch of real hard guys - 18 sea raiders. I thought they weren't so tough as I have killed up to half a dozen fighting solo, and this time I had with me a party of 21 including 1 knight and half a dozen horsemen, but they are no match for those raiders. I played the same battle over a dozen times and lost it by a street every time.

But with essentially the same party I am now beating the crap out of large bands of mountain bandits, so I think the main lesson is to choose your enemies carefully ~;p

I find it very tough fighting Swadian deserters with armies of 20-30 crossbowmen. They kill my knights and so, like Kraxis said earlier in this thread, I avoid giving battle to them.

Yes, I instinctively avoid these parties, as I know from experience what kind of havoc I can wreak on large parties when fighting solo with just me and my own crossbow. Crossbows are really deadly weapons, even a humble hunting crossbow will get 60-70 points of damage at distance with a headshot, so they're not the sort of weapons you'd want to face en masse ~;)

I rather like the balance of arms in the this game - neither cav, nor shooters, nor melee infantry are obviously superior. Personally, I like a roughly 50:50 mix of cav and shooters.

Yeah, there's a lot to like about it. I think I just like the fact that it provides a real challenge, I've played so many PC games that have got everything but that most important element. Not only can the combat be tough, but you also have a bunch of different skills you can hone over time, so there's always that feeling you could be doing better if only you were a bit more skilful...

Thanks everyone for your advice. Much appreciated ~:)

screwtype

06-09-2005, 04:59

Not at all! The Mongols and other steppe forces always choose their ground,. and wouldn't fight unless they wanted to. Why shouldn't you?

On reflection I decided it wasn't a cheat. If you have the more mobile party then there's no reason you couldn't give battle on a field of your own choosing. Personally I think I prefer just taking pot luck, but I'll certainly keep your tactic in mind, especially for those battles where you need every bit of help you can get ~:)

Sethik

06-09-2005, 06:17

I don't think that any body has mentioned how good Javalins are. They are extremely accurate (the targeting reticule barely widens!) and deal loads of damage. The only problem I have is their relatively low ammunition rate (Jarls only have 8 per battle.) Though if you are aim good enough its possible to score a kill with each as headshots are pretty easy to dish out.

Another thing that's great about them is seeing someone recieve a headshot with a Jarl and see them live running around with a meter long stick jutting out of their skull. ~D

doc_bean

06-09-2005, 11:24

I downloaded it last night. I think Kraxis' nailed it. The combat is great, the rest is pretty worthless (now). I'm not going to pay to play the beta, as I think the game is too limited at the moment.

I've been fighting in the arena most of the time, it's fun, you learn to use the different weapons, you can make some money, and at least you only have one other teammate that can screw up.
The weapon selections in the arena seems random, leading to some very unbalanced situations. Two guys with just longswords fighting a mounted lancer and a horse archer ? You can pretty much forget about winning that.
Some people commented that the horses in the arena are cr*p, I disagree, you just have to learn to use the breaks ~:)

Overall, it's a very promising combat system, now they just have to build a game around it :charge:

EDIT: So far no one mentioned the shadows, they're some of the Best shadows I ever saw in a game, in one fight, I noticed an enemy approaching me from behind because of his shadow.

The Scourge

06-09-2005, 12:45

The weapon selections in the arena seems random, leading to some very unbalanced situations. Two guys with just longswords fighting a mounted lancer and a horse archer ? You can pretty much forget about winning that.
Some people commented that the horses in the arena are cr*p, I disagree, you just have to learn to use the breaks ~:)

.
Get a good side swing ready ,and time it right ,and you can easily take any mounted fighter down from his horse.
In fact that's one of my favorite weapons in the arena.

screwtype

06-09-2005, 13:04

Yes the shadows are good, and I forgot to mention before that the lighting effects are also very good. Some of those sunsets and sunrises are quite spectacular, and the sky with its streaks of clouds is very evocative IMO.

As to there being "a combat system but no game", I'd say there's already more game there than a lot of commercial releases. But I agree it's all a bit purposeless ATM, all there is to do really is level up your character/s to ever greater heights. The developer Armanag says there's a lot in the works and the game is still many months from completion, so it will be interesting to see what the end result is like.

The Scourge

06-09-2005, 13:20

Btw ,Doc_bean ,that wasn't meant to be all snooty ,it's just that one of the things I've noticed about this game ,and one of the best things about it ,I think .Is that there is no one way of playing better than other .It lets you find your own style ;what ever it is that works best for you.
My heavy helmed ,great two handed sword night ,is a killer ,but I am pretty useless as a horse archer ,which I am trying to change with my latest steppe type hero.

screwtype .Another overlooked aspect I think is the sound effects .
That sound of sword going through flesh at full gallop ,really gives it a wicked ,but great feeling of immersion.

Efrem

06-09-2005, 13:28

I just love building up money and prestige. Awesome game.

Steppe Merc

06-09-2005, 20:37

:sigh:
Just reached level 6, when I was finally getting the hang of the game. Well, it helped me with Morrowind withdrawl when I broke the plug of my Xbox...
Probably gonna start a new game.

Oh, and my little brother whose 10, really likes this game. ~D

screwtype

06-09-2005, 20:54

Why don't you just buy the game?

Cripes, it's only the price of a pizza! ~:)

Steppe Merc

06-09-2005, 21:01

Well I don't have a credit card, and I would feel a bit sketchy asking my parents to let me use 12 bucks off one of theirs to buy an internet game.

Kraxis

06-09-2005, 21:08

Well, the game certainly has promiss in the other departments, and there is talk about including jousting and various archery contests. Now that will be great right? ~D
But as it is now it is the combat that is the best, and in my eyes the only part of the game that makes it stand out. But that part is so great that it honestly doesn't need much else to be successful, at least at this cost.

Before you disagree, remember that I got my first set of Black Armour at level 17. And I wasn't even a Merchant or someone out looking for money and so on. That is way too early to get the best armour (I have since advanced it to reinforced and those extra bonusses to the armour). I'm now level 29 and a nasty evil force on the battlefield. Even Marnid has gotten a full Black Armour set (though the helmet is rusty), and Borcha has gotten a Black Helmet and greaves and plate armour (which is odd given he is a horse archer).

Personalized equipment or special equipment is a need to some extent to let the game live on after level 25 where you are normally can survive basically anything.

Big King Sanctaphrax

06-09-2005, 21:17

Well I don't have a credit card, and I would feel a bit sketchy asking my parents to let me use 12 bucks off one of theirs to buy an internet game.

I do it all the time...how else do you buy anything off the net?

doc_bean

06-09-2005, 21:54

I do it all the time...how else do you buy anything off the net?

I never buy anything from the web ~:)

Get a good side swing ready ,and time it right ,and you can easily take any mounted fighter down from his horse.
In fact that's one of my favorite weapons in the arena.

Horse archers don't need to get close though.

Btw ,Doc_bean ,that wasn't meant to be all snooty

That didn't even cross my mind ~:cheers:

Does anyone else find the jump feature a bit unrealistic ? Your guy/girl can jump pretty high wearing all that armour ~:eek:
It did give one of the most satisfying victories, me as an archer against a mounted lancer, he kept charging and I timed my jumps and shots so that I would hit him each time just as he would lower his shield ~D

Everyone also seems to be able to take a lot of slice and dice before they go down....

The Scourge

06-10-2005, 00:09

Horse archers don't need to get close though.

Stay behind them ,to the right if you can .They have a bad habit of getting trapped against the fence .
Horsemanship is not one of the AI's strong points.

screwtype

06-10-2005, 02:58

Well I don't have a credit card, and I would feel a bit sketchy asking my parents to let me use 12 bucks off one of theirs to buy an internet game.

Oh okay, you don't have an income of your own. I assumed you did, my apologies ~:)

screwtype

06-10-2005, 03:05

I got my first set of Black Armour at level 17. And I wasn't even a Merchant or someone out looking for money and so on. That is way too early to get the best armour

Yeah I think it's way too easy to make money. Now that I've got a modestly useful party together it's pitifully easy to biff bandit hordes and just whip back to the nearest city to sell all the booty, rinse and repeat.

Someone at taleworlds argued that upkeep for troops, especially good ones, should be much higher, and that upgrading should also cost money. I've argued that you shouldn't get much booty as you have to share it out equally with your party members, but that you should get your money from trading slaves instead, which would make that area of the game more important. It really serves no function as it is. Of course slaves would then have to be worth a lot more than is currently the case...

Alexander the Pretty Good

06-10-2005, 12:10

I think different slaves should be worth different amounts. A sea raider is bound to be more fit and therefore more valuable than some bottom-of-the-barrel river pirate, who probably hasn't eaten in days. ~;)

And slavery is worth a good 1k denars if you get 10 captives; this is not bad, especially if you have a team of Swadian crossbows. When they break out the hand-to-hand weapons, they are usually blunt. Slavery can be profitible, as long as you are patient. It probably isn't so useful later in the game, though.

Crazed Rabbit

06-10-2005, 18:55

At the higher levels (I'm in the low twenties) slavery becomes less usefull when you have 80k gold and can only sell them for 100 gold each, and they slow down your party, etc.

And I agree with the poster who said that javs are great. I love hitting a knight in the face and killing him before he gets to swing his sword even once.

And while combat is still great fun (I've played at least 20 hours), the lack of a storyline, and the fact that the game is, after all, in beta stage, does kind of make it not as fun.

What I'd love to see is the ability to build your own fort and defend it from the Vaegirs and Swadians.

Think about it: a small palisaded camp with a large wooden keep, archers patrolling the walls and shooting as enemy soldiers approach and try to batter down the gate medieval style. You fight on the ground as they enter, slowly backing up to the wall. But you see that they are to many for you, and order your archers to retreat into your keep. From the windows, they pepper the enemy soldiers while you and a handful of swordsmen stay fighting on the walls. Finally, you are forced to retreat into the keep, where you lock the door. They keep on attacking, but are almost annihilated. Finally, you burst out, sword raised on high, and they turn and run in fear. You take out a javelin and throw it at them, hitting one in the head while your archers kill the rest.

You could have a smithy, tavern, even your own room to rest and decorate. You could set taxes, lower than neighbors to attract their farmers, and attracting others by offering a refuge from the war.

Crazed Rabbit

Spino

06-10-2005, 19:30

What I'd love to see is the ability to build your own fort and defend it from the Vaegirs and Swadians.

Think about it: a small palisaded camp with a large wooden keep, archers patrolling the walls and shooting as enemy soldiers approach and try to batter down the gate medieval style. You fight on the ground as they enter, slowly backing up to the wall. But you see that they are to many for you, and order your archers to retreat into your keep. From the windows, they pepper the enemy soldiers while you and a handful of swordsmen stay fighting on the walls. Finally, you are forced to retreat into the keep, where you lock the door. They keep on attacking, but are almost annihilated. Finally, you burst out, sword raised on high, and they turn and run in fear. You take out a javelin and throw it at them, hitting one in the head while your archers kill the rest.

You could have a smithy, tavern, even your own room to rest and decorate. You could set taxes, lower than neighbors to attract their farmers, and attracting others by offering a refuge from the war.

Crazed Rabbit
Very

Cool

Idea

The idea of your own fort, keep, castle or town sounds brilliant. These should be rewards for long standing service with a particular faction's Count or King. Perfectly reasonable as it is a nod towards the feudal system in Medieval Europe. Sign me up!

However...

Given the current state of the AI it would be damn hard to implement. Missile troops in your party are already infuriatingly dodgy with respect to their behavior. Getting Amargan & company to program the AI droogies to man the walls or defend a gate or breach sounds like a tall order my friend.

Still, it's a brilliant idea. ~:cheers:

Steppe Merc

06-10-2005, 20:34

That would be awesome.

I have a question: what is that current keep on the edge of the map? Haven't gotten over there yet...
And is it just me, or is the 4 Way Inn really sad? I guess they never finished it... It's just grass. Not even any people there, like the salt mine...

zelda12

06-10-2005, 20:45

Indeed, a most excellant idea, may I suggest that you suggest at the M&B forums? Amargan would almost certainly see it, and if not in this game then M&B2, and then you will be forever made immortal! ~:)

Alexander the Pretty Good

06-10-2005, 21:29

I think I saw something in their forums (I'm lurking ~;) ) about building your own town. Here's the thread. (http://taleworlds.com/v-web/bulletin/bb/viewtopic.php?t=1661&start=0) It is a discussion of some mod tools, and includes some screenshots. Anyway, one of the people helping the devs had this to say:

alphabeta77 said,
Each of these buildings are modular - ie each floor, large object is
a separate object so you guys will be able to 'build' your own towns
lego-style in the later versions of the game.

But seiges would be amazing in this game. Please mention it in the suggestions forum. ~:cheers:

Quietus

06-11-2005, 00:10

The battles are indeed exhilarating!

How do you guys capture soldiers? I have a hunter, but I'm more of merchant. I keep getting robbed :embarassed: Maybe I should lower the battle size?

I just got the fast horse with speed 11, and occassionally go join battles already in progress ~:) :duel: I've read in one of the post that you can make yourself fast by using multiple horses. Anyone tried?

Love the AI!! It can actually parry my strikes!! ~D I use the Normal/Good AI setting, the highest ones I think.

Big_John

06-11-2005, 00:31

you can capture soldiers by knocking them unconscious instead of killing them. to knock them out, use blunt weapons like rocks, maces, hammers and clubs. the jousting lance also works for that, as does simply trampling an enemy with your horse. some troops tend to use blunt weapons too (manhunters, for example). you'll need some skill in "prisoner management" (i think it's called) to get many prisoners at once.

the extra horses thing works, to some degree (i haven't figured out the full extent of it yet). also, carrying priconers with you slows you down.

Crazed Rabbit

06-11-2005, 00:51

I have a question: what is that current keep on the edge of the map? Haven't gotten over there yet...
And is it just me, or is the 4 Way Inn really sad? I guess they never finished it... It's just grass. Not even any people there, like the salt mine...

I assume you're talking aobut Dhorak Keep. Right now, it has nothing, but its the bandit city and stuff will be added later.

As to the inn...it must just be you. Just kidding! I think if you talk to one of the 'heros', like Marnid (Zendar Tavern) or Borcha (Rivercheg) after recruiting them, you'll get the option to seperate and have them go there. Presumably, you'd meet them there.

@Alexander: Look in the suggestions forum ~:)

Crazed Rabbit

screwtype

06-11-2005, 01:32

At the higher levels (I'm in the low twenties) slavery becomes less usefull when you have 80k gold and can only sell them for 100 gold each, and they slow down your party, etc.

My character's only about level 14 and slavery is already completely redundant. I can make as much money from selling a single weapon after a battle as I can make from half a dozen slaves. And of course I get multiple weapons and armour from every battle. Not only that, but all I have to do to sell the battle booty is go back to the nearest town, whereas there are only two slave traders in the game.

Same with the caravan missions. Who'd bother with one when you are stuck with a long overland trip, having to fight with parties which may be stronger than you, and all for tuppence worth of cash and experience?

The game is really unbalanced in these respects. The amount of booty from battles should be reduced, and the amount from slavery and missions boosted, or else slavery and missions are just redundant features.

Efrem

06-11-2005, 04:16

Nah, battles are more fun, therefore the emphasis should be on them.

Big_John

06-11-2005, 04:44

well, yeah, it's essentially a battle engine right now, with barely anything on top of it. once a story is added, it'll be a better game. hopefully fleshed-out economic, political (diplomatic), and army management (e.g. morale, booty distribution, etc) systems can be added in the future.

while very good, the battle engine certainly needs some work too.

Efrem

06-11-2005, 06:47

Yeah, I wish I had more control over my soldiers.

screwtype

06-11-2005, 09:03

Quietus

06-11-2005, 09:15

You guys don't trade? They just need to add a 'hideout', so to speak, so you can keep all your stuff there. ~:)

Also, when they do M&B 2, they definitely need a bigger map. A hundred cities/towns would be nice. ~D

econ21

06-11-2005, 14:01

The emphasis is already on the battles. Trouble is, there's nothing BUT battles and no incentive to do anything else but fight battles.

Why have slaves and caravan missions included at all if there's no economic incentive to take them on? Either the developer should get rid of these missions, since they are redundant, or else he should make them more relevant to the game by making them more economically rewarding and the battles less so.

Not sure I agree. Aren't the real rewards experience points, not gold? Quests give you a lot of experience and do not detract from experience from battles (you can still fight along the way, but the quests just mean you have somewhere to go). I like the caravan missions. Slaves are a little pointless, I agree (although catching 6 Vaegir knights was fun).

Crazed Rabbit

06-12-2005, 02:29

I know you can get better caravan missions if you talk to merchants in the towns and ask for jobs. Sometimes, they'll also give you missions to hunt down a group of bandits or rescue a kidnapped girl.

I will admit that there is less reward from an escort missio than just killing some people and looting their army. But the game isn't even finished yet, and besides, combat is so excellent it doesn't matter. There remains some balancing.

And the primary purpose isn't getting tons of cash- but getting a better character (well, besides fighting that is). And you do that by fighting and picking up the loot (which is just as good and much, much cheaper than buying it).

Prisoners do serve a purpose when you have to capture some enemy soldiers for a count, or ransom a enemy nobleman.

Crazed Rabbit

Alexander the Pretty Good

06-12-2005, 02:32

Soon this is going to need its own subforum...

~D

Efrem

06-12-2005, 03:31

Not to mention supply missions for dukes and such give a rediculous sum of money, so much that after a couple your set for the rest of the game.

Steppe Merc

06-15-2005, 20:43

Quietus

06-15-2005, 21:43

How important is the training? I'm trying to figure out how to squeeze as much real battles in as possible, and starting at level two sort of hurts it... But I might need to be to survive. Any thoughts?I skip the training altogether, even when using a Priest or a Merchant. It's not important at all unless you want to increase your stats. ~:)

The Novice Priest is actually a nice one, because alot of the skills are loaded already. Merchant class is the easiest to play.

KnightOfTheImperialDragon

06-17-2005, 17:56

I downloaded the free version today and can't get it to run. Every time I try to start a character, the screen gets screwed up and weird symbols appear that look like a 2-year-old got a crayon and doodled all over the screen. :dizzy2: Then the game freezes. I've tried all of the classes, but there is no change. Perhaps it is a font problem. My comp should be good enough to handle it.

Any suggestions?

GonZ

06-17-2005, 19:26

I downloaded the demo this afternoon. Had about an hour playing - mainly wondering around getting hacked to peices before I found the arena!

Quite honestly I think it's amazing. The combat is great. Not so sure about the fictional world, but I'm always cynical about such things.

Looking forward to playing some more. Feel sure I'll be buying it too.

Off to pub now - ~:cheers:

Crazed Rabbit

06-17-2005, 23:18

Knight, have you tried checking the support forum at www.taleworlds.com? The dev is very helpful.

Crazed Rabbit

King Ragnar

06-18-2005, 17:21

Is it possible to change weapon during a fight, i cant figure out how to do it. ~:confused:

Alexander the Pretty Good

06-18-2005, 17:34

Using the [ and ] keys you can switch weapons you have equipped. To switch to unequipped weapons, you need to find your storage thingy, which is near where you start on the field. Pressing the action key (f, I think) at the inventory access thing will let you view your entire inventory, and switch more weapons.

King Ragnar

06-19-2005, 11:11

SwordsMaster

06-19-2005, 14:39

I hardly ever make prisoners...Mainly because I favor swords over any other weapon and that kinda excludes the possibility of non-lethal blows... So unless its my horse knocking them over, they are dead.

BTW, the AI isnt really sharp either, if you sit somewhere inaccessible for a horseman and snipe them with your crossbow, they wont dismount but just try to get you on horseback which is impossible....

Quietus

06-20-2005, 01:29

BTW, the AI isnt really sharp either, if you sit somewhere inaccessible for a horseman and snipe them with your crossbow, they wont dismount but just try to get you on horseback which is impossible.... Dark Hunters are pretty nasty, especially if you only use bows (I'm a horsearcher).

If you haven't already, play settings: Normal/Good AI/Large Battles (all the highest difficulty). Later in the game, the map will be flooded with enemies:

Dark Knights
Black Khergit Horsemen
Swadian Deserters (crossbowmen)
Steppe Bandits
Sea Raiders
Vaegier Deserters (veterans)
Forest Bandits
Mountain Bandits
River Pirates

:charge:

Muska Burnt

06-21-2005, 10:53

omg i was playing this game all night got kinda far and it crashed uhhhh

Alexander the Pretty Good

06-21-2005, 12:05

More info?

Did you give your troops the command to mount up when some of them didn't have horses? That causes a serious crash.

King Ragnar

06-21-2005, 16:39

Mine crashes sometimes when i have a battle must just be my comp tho.

Quietus

06-22-2005, 04:49

Did you give your troops the command to mount up when some of them didn't have horses? That causes a serious crash. Oooohh, twice this happened to me. I was going to report this as a bug but I don't know what I just did. The error said something about horses though. I pressed 4 (mount) inadvertently when my horse got 'lamed'. ~:)

Muska Burnt

06-22-2005, 08:44

More info?

Did you give your troops the command to mount up when some of them didn't have horses? That causes a serious crash.

ya thanks for helping me realize my game just crushed a hour ago rightr after i did mount i kept on clicking thanks man

ChaosLord

06-24-2005, 23:37

Muska Burnt

06-25-2005, 03:59

what does "beta" mean waht does that have to do with the game

Efrem

06-25-2005, 06:07

its not finished yet

Papewaio

06-25-2005, 09:04

Beta means it won't work in a VHS recorder. :drummer:

Beta means it has been released for general playtesting by the public or a limited group.

Quietus

06-25-2005, 15:22

I must say after the intial "Hey thats pretty cool" i've lost interest with this and unistalled it. The fighting is pretty fun, but beyond numbers and heavy armor, theres nothing the AI can do to challenge you. And even then a good weapon and horse and numbers+armor mean nothing. The only real challenge is trying to build up a force of men since your own soldiers share the AIs talent for getting themselves killed. You have to constantly baby-sit your men in battle if you want to keep them alive, it becomes more of a chore then something fun.

But to be fair to the game, it is only a beta. Hopefully when more substance is put in it'll be worth reinstalling. I have read good things on the forums about more quests and the like, and the ability to own land/cities in the future. I only hope that the AI is worked on as well, give it a better ability to organize and fight rather then just mobbing the closest target.

First of all, what difficulty level are you playing? Do you use the overpowered/unbalanced crossbow? Have you fought more than 20 Dark Knights? Is your army balanced?

There are 50+ Dark Knights roaming around in my game.

I would suggest house rules to any player:

- Don't buy your equipment, just loot.
- Don't use crossbow and hide on top of the hill.
- Use a balanced army.
- Lastly, crank up to highest difficulty (which is "107%" in the game).

Personally, I like fighting khergit horsearchers since I ride a 'spirited saddle horse' my self. Chasing them around with shield/sword and bow/arrow simply is amazing! ~D

:charge:

ChaosLord

06-25-2005, 16:15

Quietus

06-25-2005, 17:39

I was playing on hardest, Normal damage, Good AI, realistic saving to get the 107%. I did use the crossbow, but mainly just to take out other missile troops. I haven't fought 20 Dark Knights yet, but i've fought assorted Dark Knights/Dark Hunters, haven't seen 20 in one stack. My army was something like 11 Hired Blades, 6 Mercenaries, 3 Caravan Guard, and 2 Caravan Master(found them as prisoners and rescued them for a laugh) along with Marnid and myself. So I suppose its not all that balanced, but the neutral line of troops doesn't give you much options beyond Mercenaries/Hired Blades. I would have liked to upgrade some of them to some more advanced ranged troops.

And right now the only equipment i've bought rather then looting is my mail chausses(after I got a mail hauberuk or something like that I wanted my setup to match),my heavy voulge, and my horse. As for the rest, I don't really want to do that. Crossbows rarely account for any large number of kills except when fighting ranged troops, my heavy voulge does most of the work. My army can't really be balanced because I don't think its right for my mercenary warlord to go hiring Swadian/Vaegir troops, so i'm stuck with neutral stuff. The last i've already done, so theres no reason to do it again.

I'm not really that interested in imposing artificial challenges just to make the game slightly harder knowing that as soon as I got a decent weapon and horse, it'd all be too easy again. I'm not saying I don't like the game, i'm just "shelving" it as it were until better combat AI is put it in or more options for neutral troops so my merc has something to work towards. Yes, I meant Dark Knights/Dark Hunters (since Dark Hunters upgrade to Dark Knights).

Its ok, those are just suggestions.

However, those guys you snipe with your crossbow would have been sniping at you while you use your Voulge if you didn't take them out so quickly. So the AI is disadvantaged in this respect.

For a change try bows on horseback, it's harder to aim (while stationary; while moving, it's a waste of ammo). Meaning you will have to worry about those enemy skirmishers as well as the ones on horseback. It's not artificial in that respect, because it is balanced.

If you've only seen 20 Dark Hunters/Knights you should wait for the 50+ to come up later and take on those guys (since you want a challenge). Personally, I chicken-out on 20+ mainly because i'm primarily a horsearcher and my personal stats and skills on melee are weak (like 0 power strike etc.)

From the Taleworlds forum, Hired Blades seemed to be the strongest unit to take on the Dark Knights. I've used them before until I've figured out the party type limits.

:charge:

King Ragnar

06-25-2005, 19:07

Yay i finnaly have money to buy the game ~D ~D

Colovion

06-25-2005, 21:16

wow. I played it for the first time today. Just an hour or so and just the combat system is amazing. I haven't even gotten into very large battles - besides perfecting my skills in the Tournament in the starting area. I just joined their forum and started reading the FAQ.

:2thumbsup:

Colovion

06-26-2005, 03:02

that hour ballooned into 4

and I bought. $12 well spent. wooo lvl 10

R'as al Ghul

06-26-2005, 09:14

Signing in as a new addict. ~:grouphug:
~:cheers:

Sethik

06-26-2005, 12:19

Ahh, yes Dark Knights... truely wonderful battles. I remember once it was just me, Xarnia, Draton, and Kradus (I downloaded a mod that let you recruit the arena fighters) when all of a sudden I run into a group of 50+ Dark Knights (25 hunters, 24 knights, and one knight captian)! I met them in battle and was at a -15 disadvantage in the first encounter. It was just me and Xernia versus around 12-20 Knights/Hunters. That was certainly a fun meeting. Horses and bodies were strewn all over the field when I was done with them (Xernia got crowded and mobbed early on.) I tell you, nothing like riding around with a sword of war in your hand and a dozen murerous knights on your tail. I really wish that stats screen worked. I would love to know how many pansies in black armor I sent to the grave. :charge:

Steppe Merc

06-26-2005, 19:56

Heh. I downloaded a mod that added weapons, armors, and allowed to to recruit steppe characters units, as well as turning Vaegir knights into horse archers. :charge:

R'as al Ghul

06-27-2005, 10:47

So, I've build this character and most of what I did so far
was to talk to everybody in Zendar. Then I started fighting.
I lost my whole money in the arena while learning and now
I've only about 150 left. I gained some experience and skills though
and advanced to Lvl 4.

I only just discovered that you can zoom in with the bow,
doesn't help that much though.
Also, swordfighting is really weird, I can't seem to get it right.
Okay, I win but that's kinda random. I'm just chopping at the guys until they're
dead but I can't direct my moves sufficiently.
My best discipline is the couched lance attack. Weird, isn't it?
Just knocked one down with 100 damage couched attack!!

Addictive to say the least. I can't wait to get some money to
leave town and start to kill those bandits.......
My intention is too win some money back in the arena because
trading isn't really an option when you only have 150 denari.
Any suggestions on how to speed me up?
Is salt trading a fast way to gain money when you start low?

BTW, the Daimyo Wars mod looks promising.

Dutch_guy

06-27-2005, 11:01

yes trading salt is a very good way of becoming rich fast, however you will need to have a little more than 150 D , since salt costs 70 .
so once you get your money up to say... 500 then you will be able to buy lot's of salt and sell it in Zendar for 2.5 times the buying price ~:cheers:

:balloon2:

Crazed Rabbit

06-27-2005, 16:39

R'as al Ghul

06-28-2005, 08:59

You can make lots of money selling the loot (swords, armor, etc.) bandits and pirates drop. That's how I've made most of my 145k.

Salt trading, as has been said, needs a larger initial investment to actually make the salt mine to Zendar trip worthwhile. And even then, its not as fun to me as hunting down people and selling their stuff.

For the swordfighting, if you're looking left of your character (at least in 3rd person view) then you'll swing right to left, and vice versa. If you look up above your guy, you'll chop downwards, if you look at your feet you'll stab with your sword. Have you talked to the trainer of Zendar? He's next to the tourny master and its a good place to learn the ropes o' combat (but not ranged combat).

Crazed Rabbit

My first character died on the way to the salt mine.
I was ambushed by two large parties who killed my horse.
Without horse and money I figured I start again.

My new character looks promising. A hunter.
So far I've made the trip to the mine two times.
The third time it was empty. I bought this padded cloth
for the NPC and a falchion, a hood and simple armour for me.
I recruited some 10 townspeople and my mob killed the first
River Pirates. Loot was insubstantial though. Couple of stones
and a knife.

The fighting works better now. The "point of view" is
very important when you deal your blows. And moving
while striking is also quite effective.
The zoom function of the bow makes precise shooting
actually more difficult for me.
Looking forward to building the new character.

Does the Salt mine refill after a few days?
How important is resting/ sleeping?

~:cheers:

Crazed Rabbit

06-28-2005, 19:16

Yes, the salt mine refills. I don't know how long it takes, though.

Sleeping and resting are, as far as I can tell, totally unimportant. I only stay in taverns if some group is chasing me and is faster (or I want to pass the time).

Crazed Rabbit

Alexander the Pretty Good

06-28-2005, 22:04

All shops "refresh" every 3 "days" in game - at least that is what I think I heard on their forums. Which makes sense. It takes more than 3 days to get to the mines from Zendar and go back. But I think this holds true for all shops.

----------

I don't know how many of you have seen this (http://taleworlds.com/v-web/bulletin/bb/viewtopic.php?t=2030&start=0) planned mod for M&B. It's a total conversion essentially based on vanilla RTW, from the perspective of some legionnaires lost in Greece. I had wanted a mod like that, but I was disappointed that the team is going for a sorta-historical approach to it. By sorta I mean "based off RTW." I was interested in a mod that was more "psuedo-historical," like M&B is to the medieval period. It feels medieval, but has no direct reference to the actual period. The Lost Legionnaire mod directly references aspects of history because RTW does (or tries to ~;) ).

So I figured, "Why don't I make my own mod?"

And then I realized its because I have no skills. :help:

I have some ideas, though, and I may try to learn what I need to mod M&B. The mod I was thinking of would be a "psuedo" historical mod of the time of (maybe) 270 BC - but from the perspective of "barbarians" who are being slowly invaded by an "empire." And it would feel kinda like the Gallic and/or Germanic tribes, but not directly reference them. Etc. There would have to be a lot of fresh content. And new models, skins, etc (that's where I would need the most help with). I would ask the EB team if they could do anything, and ask the Lost Legionnaire team if they would like to collaborate a bit.

Obviously, I'm looking for help. If there are skinners, modelers (particularly those familiar with Blender, the program the game models were made with) or anyone else willing to chip in, I would be grateful. I don't really feal comfortable with the M&B forum and community yet, so I haven't posted anything on their forums - [also] yet.

Whew. Lots of typing. :book:

Steppe Merc

06-28-2005, 22:39

I feel your pain. I also have no skills, which is why I joined EB, so I can do the research and the talented do all the work. ~;)
I wish the too sides had more radical differences. For example, one is infantry based while another cavalry based, for example. The one mod I downloaded The Magnificent Seven is pretty good, the best I could find.
But yeah, a more realstic aproach would be good...

desdichado

06-29-2005, 22:51

Sleeping and resting are, as far as I can tell, totally unimportant. I only stay in taverns if some group is chasing me and is faster (or I want to pass the time).

Crazed Rabbit[/QUOTE]

sleping in a tavern heals your hitpoints and those of your crew that are wounded so is more useful than just hiding from large groups of big bad men - of which i've done plenty in this game.

Crazed Rabbit

06-29-2005, 23:07

Good point ^^ I had forgotten about that.

Alex, I'd be glad to help out, though I, too, am skillless. I might be able to do some skinning, and maybe some non-human modeling, but I don't reall have any experience.

Crazed Rabbit

Quietus

07-01-2005, 19:25

All shops "refresh" every 3 "days" in game - at least that is what I think I heard on their forums. Which makes sense. It takes more than 3 days to get to the mines from Zendar and go back. But I think this holds true for all shops.

----------

I don't know how many of you have seen this (http://taleworlds.com/v-web/bulletin/bb/viewtopic.php?t=2030&start=0)

So I figured, "Why don't I make my own mod?"

And then I realized its because I have no skills. :help:

I have some ideas, though, and I may try to learn what I need to mod M&B. The mod I was thinking of would be a "psuedo" historical mod of the time of (maybe) 270 BC - but from the perspective of "barbarians" who are being slowly invaded by an "empire." And it would feel kinda like the Gallic and/or Germanic tribes, but not directly reference them. Etc. There would have to be a lot of fresh content. And new models, skins, etc (that's where I would need the most help with). I would ask the EB team if they could do anything, and ask the Lost Legionnaire team if they would like to collaborate a bit.

Obviously, I'm looking for help. If there are skinners, modelers (particularly those familiar with Blender, the program the game models were made with) or anyone else willing to chip in, I would be grateful. I don't really feal comfortable with the M&B forum and community yet, so I haven't posted anything on their forums - [also] yet.

Whew. Lots of typing. :book:I've downloaded Blender thanks to the Mod topic over there. Looks like an excellent program (free as well).

I have no modification-skill too. ~:cool: Just learn the program I guess. I mean, I didn't know how to make a signature until Kraellin posted about the GIMP a couple of months ago. And that's basically a 2d program. Blender does 3d. ~:)

Ra's,

Don't just do the salt mine. Do the whole map. There are two trade pathways there. The major intersection/fork/hub is at Rivacheg. That's why I've said earlier that Merchant class is the easiest because you can upgrade really fast with an initial capital.

The salt mine path is unique though. That's only between Zendar and the Mines. Zendar to Tulga is neutral path as well but it ramps up to one of the pathways I've mentioned. :charge:

Lastly, I'm starting to get what people meant by going 'solo'. With 2 Riding, 100+ double handed skill (and even with 33+ encumbrance), zero powerstrike, 63 Health points and using trusty spirited saddle horse, you can do alot of damage to those Dark Knights as they chase you around.

I can only imagine if you use a truly melee-centric character as mine is practically just a horse archer and I was using a 'chipped Bastard Sword' against those knights.

:charge:

ps, you are still vulnerable to arrows and other missiles though. The AI can perform headshots while on galloping on horseback.

R'as al Ghul

07-02-2005, 08:58

Hah!

Leveled up to 11 with my hunter.
I've some 7000 den cash and some good skills.
Archery=105+, Onehanded= around 75, Strength=10, Agility=10
I bought a Khergit bow which is really an improvement. I actually
can kill with this toll at a single shot.
And I'm quite a good shot if I dismount in battle. (You can hide behind your horse ~;) )
I only take the salt road occasionally nowadays. After clearing the quest for the river pirates I started to chase
mountain bandits and caravans.
They have some nice loot sometimes. But they're also pretty tough. With my
balanced Longsword I couldn't kill enough of them. Then I bought this huge
onehanded mean axe (large war axe?). Strangely it feels "soft" when you chop
at anything with it and it delivers way more damage. But the best weapon
so far is the great lance I bought for 1700 den. Combined with my courser
I run everything down that survives my bow, between 80 and 200 damage.
:charge:

Any recommendations concerning armour?
I've this ultraheavy (16) "crude chain hauberk" which gives a lot of
protection, a real lifesaver, but is so heavy I can hardly move.

What's the best one handed weapon?

R'as

Crazed Rabbit

07-02-2005, 19:49

I just get the best armor I can. It is important to get high athletics skill if you're going to be doing a lot of ground fighting, so you can run fast in heavy armor.

The bet one handed weapon is very subjective, imo. For blunt damage to knock out a noble, you'd want a heavy spiked mace. An axe can do heavy damage and destroy shields, but is usually slow, while a scimitar (what I use on horseback along with javelins and a 2 handed sword) is very fast, so you can get in a hit quick. And, of course, you've got the usual run of slightly different swords, like nordics and broadswords. It all depends on what you want.

Crazed Rabbit

Quietus

07-02-2005, 21:21

Any recommendations concerning armour?
I've this ultraheavy (16) "crude chain hauberk" which gives a lot of
protection, a real lifesaver, but is so heavy I can hardly move.

What's the best one handed weapon?

R'as One of my houserules is not to buy but to loot and the best armor I've had is the plate armor. It constricts your movement though. I think there's one better armor than this which is the black armor but I've never have the opportunity to loot one yet so I can't comment on it.

You do need high armor against those Dark Knights, just as an insurance. Those guys carry the heavy weapons. Crossbowmen are nasty too. One hit in the head and no matter what armor you have you are done. Not to mention those sharpshooting Khergits.

The best single-hand melee, killing weapon is a toss-up between watered-steel nomad sabre or the watered-steel scimitar. I used to like the scimitar more because it is slightly faster, but the nomad sabre is slight longer. I've since switched to the nomad sabre. If you want to knock-out people, you need a blunt weapon.

Lastly, double-handed weapons on horseback will be used single-handedly but you can't use a shield. ~:) :charge:

Crazed Rabbit

07-03-2005, 22:49

I just started a new character as a beserker, going minimal armor and two handed weaps (though I still got the starting sword.) Missile weaps are my weakness :(.

I least I have an original name: Conan! ~;)

Crazed Rabbit

Quietus

07-04-2005, 03:54

Big_John

07-04-2005, 05:51

Are you going solo? ~:eek:he should rename borcha to subotai and outfit him accordingly.. also, he needs to replace the music with basil poledouris' score! :happy:

Crazed Rabbit

07-04-2005, 18:59

Big_John

07-05-2005, 01:45

Well, I've got Borcha with me, but he's not much good. Occasionally I pick up a manhunter or two, but that's it. It'll get interesting at the higher levels (and when I get a two handed weap). Just need to fight some more sea raiders.

Good idea. I really like the music, now I just have to...uh...pull out that old CD of mine... ~;)

Crazed Rabbitit's such a good idea, i think i'm going to steal it for myself! i'm sure i can figure out how to rename borcha from the M&B mod forum.. now, how to outfit him as subotai? a khergit bow and scimitar? khergit or rawhide armor? definitely a steppe cap (or whatever it's called). i actually do have the conan the barbarian score.. it's one of the first CDs i bought, iirc. can the in-game music be modded?

R'as al Ghul

07-05-2005, 11:36

I upped to Lvl 13.
I'm a target for gangs of Black Khergits atm.
My own little troop consists of Me, Marnid, Borcha,
4 Vaegir Horsemen, 2 Vaegir Veterans and 2 Vaegir Knight.
Against a mob of 20+ Khergits we don't stand a chance, though.
I try to avoid them and concentrate on mountain bandits, steppe bandits
and the like.
I've returned to Lance (ca. 90) & bow (122) with the occasional use of the axe for good measure.
I've also experimented with the "dismount" order. It can work well against the initial charge.

The balanced morning star I looted was no joy to use. Sloooooow attack and unsatisfying damage.
It's suicidal to fight against scimitar armed steppe bandits with a crude mail hauberk plus one
of the slowest weapons. It does kill horses almost instantly though.

I'm still looking for a foot weapon that kills instantly.
With so many enemies I assume it's important to bring home the kills more frequently, although
I noticed that the guys I've hit once don't survive the next attack by my comrades.

And I still don't get every attack move right.
Having the enemy on the right and swinging the axe on the left while galloping
top speed is frustrating but still happens all the time.
GAH! I guess I need to fight a few tourneys again.....

Rosacrux redux

07-05-2005, 19:20

After experimenting a lot, especially with lance and swords on the horseback, I've come down to a grand hero I call pigface (I made him buttugly) and that is now lvl 32 (you can tell I've been playing only this game for the past month, huh?).

He is a foot archer. He hasn't got a single point in riding skill, so he moves on foot all the time. Right now, the main stats are power draw 5, ironskin 5, athletics 5 - I've got decent stats all over as well, but fairly low diplo skill (got me a gang of 27 lads - barely adequate against the harder opponents) . My bow skill is 280 and rising, and my only other noticeable skill is in two-handed weapons - I got a great sword as a second weapon. I carry a war bow and two bags of bodkin arrows, plus a couple in the backpack. I wear a reinforced leather armor, but also a black helmet and greaves.

The warbow with such a high bow skill and power draw of 5, does INSANE damage! Every second shot (against weak oponents - bandits and the likes - even more) is a head shot and I even can kill black knights with one shot sometimes. Kherghits and the likes don't stand a chance - I get some high ground and pick them one after the other with my arrows. When few enemies get close, my great sword makes short work of them, but if they are many (and my gang's gone) I am dead meat due to light armor, no shield and slow weapon.

It is the most enjoying character I play and I am having great fun with him. Taking 60+ black knights with this character and gang, is quite challenging, although the only other oponent that can be a pain is a war party (those with the 120+ guys... bloody endless!).

R'as al Ghul

07-06-2005, 09:29

Played a bit again yesterday.
I actually went back to Zendar to play a few tourneys.
Booooring! There's absolutely no way to loose at lvl 13.
Battles are over before they begin. The only thing annoying is to spawn as foot melee guy against a mounted archer.
It can take quite long. These successes at least insured me that I do use the weapons right.

I also improved my h2h tactics. Now I do survive being mobbed more often.
I found out that the Vaegir skirmish/archer/sharpshooter line is quite effective.
Before I concentrated solely on Horsemen of every flavour but I think it's better to have at least a balanced army if not a foot-only army.

Now the million dollar question:
What equipment do you give to Marnid and Borcha?
Right now they both carry bows + 2 sets of arrows, shield + spear, a falchion or winged mace, appropriate armour and horses.
No need to tell you that they always get knocked out pretty early and don't really score kills when not fighting against the easiest
opponents.
I heard it's good to get rid of Marnid's horse and equip him with xbow and 2h melee?
This brings up another question. What's your opinion about poleaxes, glaives(sp?), halberds and the like?
I imagine they rule the battlefield?

~:cheers:

P.S.: I turned down the mouse sensitivity a bit. Feels a lot better. I guess
my optical mouse is too fast. Try it if you have problems.

Rosacrux redux

07-06-2005, 21:05

I usually ditch Borcha and turn Marnid into a mean, lean killing machine. Right now he's got a full set of black armor, rides a spirited charger and carries a 2sided lance - I found out that he's much more effective with this, than with the great lance

He scores lots and lots of kills, at least against so-so oponents. He's having a hard time against Dark knights though.

Since my character is on foot and the riding enemies are the best, it's rather unwise to have a potential juggernaught as marnid as a foot archer.

BTW try to get your hands on some peasant women and turn them into sword sisters. They are really awesome fighting machines. Score much more kills than Knights of both flavors.

sapi

07-07-2005, 09:20

Just joining my vote to the "this game is great" opinion :)

Seriously - you have to at least try this. (and then you'll be hooked)

katank

07-09-2005, 03:13

Don't forget that both those heroes have valuable skills. Marnid is good at trading with 4 and Borcha has decent tracking of 2 and good spotting and pathfinding at 3 apiece? They are worth taking along on the salt runs as they make it a lot more efficient.

I now leveled Borcha up to having 6 of each of the spotting and pathfinding skills. This way, my band of knights can out maneuver on the map anything I don't want to fight.

Beware of leaving troops with Borcha though. I left some knights with him to make room for training up peasant women and to deliver that blasted kidnapped girl home for the umpteenth time. Then, when I got back, he was running away from some dark hunters at a speed of 10.1!!! Took me a while to chase him down and reincorporate him into my force.

I personally love the great lance, balanced great axe, and sniper xbow. I easily soloed today against a 60 dark hunter group and lost only 5 HP. I find the spirited courser to be by far the best horse until you can access the spirited charger. The courser is also extremely affordable and no big tragedy to lose. Spirited hunters are also nice but I find speed slightly more important than maneuver.

Quietus

07-09-2005, 09:50

Now the million dollar question:
What equipment do you give to Marnid and Borcha?
Right now they both carry bows + 2 sets of arrows, shield + spear, a falchion or winged mace, appropriate armour and horses.
No need to tell you that they always get knocked out pretty early and don't really score kills when not fighting against the easiest
opponents.
I heard it's good to get rid of Marnid's horse and equip him with xbow and 2h melee?
This brings up another question. What's your opinion about poleaxes, glaives(sp?), halberds and the like?
I imagine they rule the battlefield?

~:cheers:Give them both good bows (khergit bow at least) but don't give then horses because they don't obey orders.

Give them a watered-steel nomad sabre or scimitar for h2h. You also don't want them without shields because they will be shot down. Don't give falchion since it is too short.

My level 40 hunter character is fairly powerful on horseback (my trusty saddle horse ). I don't use the best looted horses, I sell them ~;)

0 powerstrike
3 athletics
3 riding
3 powerdraw
1 horsearchery
and 64 healthpoints.

I like hunting Khergits ~:cool: because fighting them is very dynamic. My party is 69 strong, so basically, I fight the big parties (although I wait for the 120+ to go down in numbers first since I want minimal casualties).

All my stuff are looted.

Horse: Saddle Horse (spirited or heavy Saddle Horse on special battles).
Main weapon: Khergit Bow with 6 sets of arrows.
Secondary Weapon: Watered-steel nomad sabre/cracked Steel Shield. With a another spare cracked Steel Shield.
Other used weapons: Great Sword, Heavy Battle Axe, and a Balanced Spiked Mace (for knocking down the nobleman).
other weapons (not used yet): Heavy Great Axe, Rusty Sword of War and Balanced Bastard Sword.
Clothing: Guard Helmet, crude Plate Armor, and reinforced Iron greaves.

Archery: 294
one-handed: 147
two-handed: 143

the rest of weapons are 50 something.

~:cool:

Quietus

07-09-2005, 09:54

BTW try to get your hands on some peasant women and turn them into sword sisters. They are really awesome fighting machines. Score much more kills than Knights of both flavors. I have 22 sword sisters in my party. They are definitely great. ~:cool:

katank

07-09-2005, 20:28

They have low survivability though and need steady replacement.

Hunt down raider missions usually generate something like 30 peasant women a pop so that's not much of a problem any more.

R'as al Ghul

07-11-2005, 10:13

I've reached level 25 with my hunter character and I'm a sergeant of the Vaegir army.
I've trained all kinds of Vaegir troops by now. I love Vaegir marksmen and archer.
In fact I pretty much look like a Vaegir archer myself.
Thick Nordic helmet, hardened leather and iron greaves.
Most of the time I carry a warbow, 2 large bags of bodkin arrows and
any kind of bihander. Sword of War is nice but I also use bardiche, poleaxe and
glaive. They have different reaches and speeds but are excellent against cavalry.
The poleaxe has the longest reach, is a tad slow and needs accurate timing. But
when you hit you can cut a rider from his horse in one blow. They aren't of great use
when on horseback though.
Most of the time I just snipe away with my bow over great distances. (proficiency of over 220)
When the terrain is right I love to lance. Against Khergits I use
a balanced nomad sabre and shield. I prefer a heavy courser or a hunter
as horses. Recently I upped my riding to 4, so now I'm looking for a war horse.
I gave Marnid a scimitar + shield and lance. It suits him quite well.
Borcha loves Javelin but also carries shield and winged mace atm.
Basically they get equipped from loot.
Mountain bandits and Sea raiders aren't really a challenge any more.
I train my new footmen on them.
The most thrilling battles are against Swadian parties of Man-at-arms and Knights.
They can really hurt you! And if you have a mission to kidnap the nobleman, you've
to bring a blunt weapon which gives you a disadvantage against the knights.

Has anybody an idea if you get more loot when you make prisoners?
When you rise in rank (regular/sergeant/etc.) can you raise different/higher troops?

Rasputin:
79 Hitpoints
14-15 strength
12 agility
14 intelligence
9-10 charisma

2-3 ironflesh
3 powerstrike
4 powerdraw
3 athletics
4 riding
3 horsearchery

Hey Quietus, where did you put your points?
Your values seem so low for lvl 40?
I figure some did go to charisma/ leadership since you can lead 69 and I only 39.

R'as

Quietus

07-12-2005, 07:51

And if you have a mission to kidnap the nobleman, you've
to bring a blunt weapon which gives you a disadvantage against the knights. Why not switch weapons during battle. I switch to the blunt weapon only when the nobleman is close.

Has anybody an idea if you get more loot when you make prisoners? Not that I know of. I get the best loot from the large War Parties/Patrols/Dark Hunters/Khergits and the Raider mission.

I'm very sure though that when you join your ally, the loot is very tiny.

When you rise in rank (regular/sergeant/etc.) can you raise different/higher troops? The soldier upgrades are pretty much fixed.

Swadians
Vaegirs
Peasant women/Refugees
Farmers

Basically, the regular armies.

Rasputin:
79 Hitpoints
14-15 strength
12 agility
14 intelligence
9-10 charisma

2-3 ironflesh
3 powerstrike
4 powerdraw
3 athletics
4 riding
3 horsearchery

Hey Quietus, where did you put your points?
Your values seem so low for lvl 40?
I figure some did go to charisma/ leadership since you can lead 69 and I only 39.
R'as That's correct: Charisma & Intelligence (24 & 21 respectively and I'm also saving a bunch of points). Agility: 9 and Strength: 10. I can't decide which I should raise next. Likely, it's Charisma again.

I divvy up the party skills. Borcha does the Pathfinding/Tracking/Spotting/Surgery. I do the First Aid and Wound Treatment + others: Trade/Prisoner management/Leader. Marnid is for himself. He's already higher leveled than Borcha.

Borcha's high Tracking is great because it tells you whose tracks are it from exactly (in case you don't know this). I also have high 'inventory management'. It's great when doing the supply missions (expecially the horses). I do all the missions except the escort and delivery (I need the space).

Basically, I like a mix of troops and you can only get it with high charisma. ~:)

They have low survivability though and need steady replacement. Unless (you or Borcha) have high Surgery! ~D Borcha has 8 surgery at a the moment. The worst number of total soldiers I lose on the biggest battles is 5-6. Most of the time, it is 0-2. ~:)

katank

07-15-2005, 06:55

Surgery skill does help. However, those two clowns usually get KOed too quickly for them to gain much experience and I tend to put my points into combat and leadership.

Somehow, no matter what I start with, I end up gravitating towards being an armoured knight covered in black and having a spirited courser against cav heavy enemies and spirited charger against inf heavy enemies. I also wield a great lance, balanced great axe along with sniper xbow and pack of bolts.

I also keep a jousting lance around for reminescence sake about prison farming river pirates at the beginning and also for taking prisoners for missions. I will also bring a balanced warhammer for nobleman missions.

I'm currently lvl 37 and a knight-at-arms in the vaegir service. Fighting against the deadly combo of Swadian knights and xbows is very challenging and fun. Much like medieval knights, the bane of my existence is those xbows. I will sometimes end up on my butt with 10 bolts sticking out of me. Thus, xbows are always killed, no quarter.