Broken Crescent Hotseat: Commanders of the Faithful

[Askthepizzaguy]

Oh come now, Xehh, I'm joining now. Take one of the AI factions and give it the old college try.

Heck, join me as an ally. I sorely need one.

[rossahh]

Xehh, that Ayyubids can't get you that fast.

[Xehh II]

Oh come now, Xehh, I'm joining now. Take one of the AI factions and give it the old college try.

Heck, join me as an ally. I sorely need one.

Kingdom of Makuria was my faction, you know, the faction you say sucks.



Xehh, that Ayyubids can't get you that fast.
Yeah, they can.

[Xehh II]

Could someone please tell me where to get 1.3?

[Askthepizzaguy]

http://www.strategyinformer.com/pc/medieval2totalwar/patch/17066.html

there are lots of other places, in case this one doesnt work

http://www.sega.com/support/support.php?item=support_patches

"Segashop (Digital River): Click here to download the patch."

[Askthepizzaguy]

Did you get it workin yet? Were the links helpful?

[rossahh]

The Ayyubids will get their next turn and that turn only before you are set up again. I took Makuria's turn last time and I know where the faction heir and leader is, as well as how far the capital is from the border. There is absolutely no way they could get you in a single turn.

This is assuming you'll be Makuria again though.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Personally I'd go with the Kypchak Confederacy. At least you'd have some space to expand and a potential ally. CLEARS THROAT LOUDLY. CLEARS THROAT LOUDLY AGAIN. SUBTLETY IS NOT MY STRENGTH. I AM NOT ACTUALLY YELLING I SUFFER FROM VOICE IMMODULATION. Over 15 people in Europe, Africa, and Asia alone suffer from this debilitating disease.

We're loud, we're proud, get used to it.

[Zim]

Hmm, I seem to recall someone saying of the Kypchaks "... again remote, and pathetic. Pwned by the Mongols, and no one will ever want to be my friend, as I am poor." :clown:

Speaking as someone who's played both factions, I'd say they have about the same number of rebel settlements around them, and the ability of Makuria to take the eastern coast of Africa and Yemen allows some nice sea trade between your settlements.

Makuria's provinces seem a little wealthier, at least regarding the resources they have (nice for merchants :2thumbsup: ). Kypchaks suffer a bit from their's being far away from eachother, and corruption is a big problem for them. They also have the little problem of their natural expansion route being disturbingly close to the Mongols. They do get much better horsearchers, though (Makuria gets camel archers I think, plus decent medium cavalry and javelin cavalry)

[Askthepizzaguy]

Yes, well... uh... right.

I only meant remote as in... they are the closest to the remote, so they control which tv station we all watch. And as for pathetic, I meant that in the most glowing possible terms. Being owned by the Mongols isn't all that bad, as I hear they treat their prisoners QUITE well, and as for being poor... well, at least no one will want to spend a lot of time and money conquering your lands because they are so worthless. And again, I mean worthless in it's most positive sense.

So, as you can see... the Kypchacks might even be the most powerful faction of them all, as the stench of their ineptitude might reek just enough to overpower the most determined invader!

And as for friends, who needs friends? Caesar had a lot of friends, and all that led to was a bunch of dagger wounds in the back. It's much, much better to be seen as some sort of leper. That way everyone will uh... leave you alone until you become the game's sole superpower. All you have to do is take Caffa and you're on your way to conquering the known world, you are.

___________________

If there is a hell for comedians I'm going to be sent there.

[Xehh II]

Makuria gets Makurian longbowmen and Abyssinian champions, decent Light infantry, good medium cavalry.
Makuria's strength is definitely it's foot archers though.

It'll take me 3 days to get 1.3, then I have to go though the whole uninstall reinstall stuff again, definitely missing my next turn,
Makuria's been switched to AI anyway.

[rossahh]

Just ask phonicsmonkey to put the Makurians back under human control before their next turn and get someone to sub for you if you don't want the AI to mess it up for you. They're last in the turn order anyway, so it'll be a while before they come up again.


ATPG, you should restart the "turtle vs hare" debate as now you and everyone else get to put all those theories about a human vs human situation into practise. I wonder who will win, the turtle or the hare? I guess only time will tell.

[Zim]

Xehh II Never did get to use the Makurian longbowmen much, but I definately got a lot of mileage out of the plain old Sudanese longbowmen. :yes:

3 days? :dizzy2: Even assuming a dialup connection I didn't know the patch was that big. :sweatdrop:

[Xehh II]

I am turtle and I will lose, and there's no one I can trust to take my turn.

[Xehh II]

Xehh II Never did get to use the Makurian longbowmen much, but I definately got a lot of mileage out of the plain old Sudanese longbowmen. :yes:

3 days? :dizzy2: Even assuming a dialup connection I didn't know the patch was that big. :sweatdrop:

Zim, If you thought Sudanese longbowmen were good times their goodness by about 4 and you have Makurian Longbowmen.

And yeah, I have real, real, real slow dial-up, took me 3 days to download EB, 3 days to download 1.2 and 1.1, 3 days to download BC and 1.3 is only slightly smaller.

[phonicsmonkey]

But phonicsmonkey said I wouldn't need it!

BC is supposed to work on both 1.2 and 1.3

and weren't you playing single player on 1.2 with no problems before you joined the hotseat?

poor little monkey, just trying to do his best for everyone...:no:

[Zim]

Vanilla MTW2 also works the same for SP in either version 1.2 or 1.3, but ina succession or multiplayer game, if a person with 1.3 picks up a 1.2 save, it will work fine for him/her. After that, though, only people with 1.3 can pick the save up.

This might be what happened to Xehh, assuming his problem was playing the save, as opposed to BC itself.


BC is supposed to work on both 1.2 and 1.3

and weren't you playing single player on 1.2 with no problems before you joined the hotseat?

poor little monkey, just trying to do his best for everyone...:no:

[00jebus]

so.. ask the pizza guy...

pizza guy, who did you decide to play as?

hopefully not the kypatchs.... its a proven fact that 90% of people who choose to play as the kypatchs in hotseat smell funny
and I am in no way saying this because I plan to hide a family member or two on the steppes so the monguls can't kill me completly... thats a totally unrelated concern...

not that Im afraid of 12 stacks of angry asain men on ponies or anything....

[Zim]

He's playing the Turkish Sultanate. :yes:

[Xehh II]

I am start 1.3 now, it should be done by tuesday or maybe the day after tuesday that I cannot spell.

[00jebus]

:beam:


... I hope I havn't given away my super secret plan to attack Con.... nowhere special from the.... ummm... trees?



:oops:




@lemongate... just kidding

[Askthepizzaguy]

Still haven't recieved any diplomatic word from ERE or Georgia.

[Askthepizzaguy]

TheFlax, your private message storage is full. I am attempting to send you a private message. Please clear some space, that we may establish diplomatic ties.

[Ferret]

Hindu fellas (Ramses):http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/BC-02-09.rar

[Askthepizzaguy]

What is a .rar file and how do I make it a playable save file on my turn?

I don't wish to hold up progress!

[barcamartin]

A .rar file is the same thing (I think) as a .zip file. It's compressed and is much smaller. When it's your turn, just download and extract it with some software like WinRar into your broken crescent/ saves folder. When you have played your turn, it's the other way round. Comprimise it with the same software into either .rar or .zip and upload using the forum PBM uploader (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=29005) . Post the link to the file in the thread. Voíla !

[The Lemongate]

Ok just waaaaaaaaaaaaaiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit a minute here... the Turks already got their 2 big stacks right on my doorstep. So who's doing something about that?

Other then that, this is making for a way more interesting situation in the West!

[Askthepizzaguy]

If it pleases you Lemongate, be advised that the Turks were an AI faction. I now claim the reins of power.

I also seek peace, by the way. I will gladly turn back the Sultan's armies if you would merely talk with us.

[Ramses II CP]

The Ayyubids are up:

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/BC-02-10.zip

Sending a pm. :beam:

Offer made to the Ghorids, and if the Ghazni are interested in a deal my diplomat is right by Pindi (sp?) just southeast of Peshawar.

edit: A lot of people, myself included, use 7zip to handle .rar files ATPG:

http://www.7-zip.org/

Just open 7zip and within it's window navigate to the folder with the .rar file and double click it. Seamless, plus it creates .zips with drag and drop.

:egypt:

[Askthepizzaguy]

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=1853359#post1853359

Calling all honourable leaders, I would request you attend the assembly and view the treachery of the Seljuk!

[Askthepizzaguy]

If the kind person preceeding me would send me the save file in .zip format I can easily extract it.

[00jebus]

*checks software*

thats no problem

[The Lemongate]

No not "got" as in arrive. Got as in a script gives the turks 2 stacks out of thin air to make the AI harder on human players. As well as boost all town garrisons I believe. In any case, I ask the moderator of the game to do something about it before your first turn. I believe these stacks appear on turn 2, so the AI has probably neither moved nor merged them with anything else. In a single player game, you will quickly see that it tends to make the Turks of Rum the faction with the largest standing army. And since they are in competent hands, I have to protest to them just being there. Peace or no peace, I just want it to be fair :beam:

[Ferret]

I agree, spawned armies should be removed.

[Askthepizzaguy]

especially if such armies crippled my economy before I was even able to move!

The only way to survive at that point would be to obliterate all opposing factions, and that's not how I would like this game to unfold.

[Shahed]

Hey guys ! Has anything happened yet ? Are there are AARs yet ?

[Askthepizzaguy]

currently turn 2, and no I do not believe there is anything of interest to report, short of the treacherous and aggressive Seljuks who are attempting to bully everyone into submission.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I agree, spawned armies should be removed.

Please be careful, game moderator, not to remove armies I rightfully should have.

The turks begin with roughly between one and a half and 2 stacks of troops spread over several provinces, and 5000 florins. My original troops also have gold and silver chevrons, please do not delete them.

I would appreciate it if I were granted a starting position roughly equal to what I should have started with, given one turn's growth.

[Banzai Kamikaze]

Khwarezm are up !


http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/BC-02-11.zip

Losing damascus and Homs crippled my economy :S . I hope Salahuddin knew about this before he foolishly gave up these gems.

But Allah is with him is he not ? :inquisitive:

And welcome pizzaguy. You are not the only one who never played either broken crescent or any hotseats before (I haven't either). Just try your best :) .

[phonicsmonkey]

hi - I will look into removing those stacks before the Turkish turn

[phonicsmonkey]

00jebus, please don't play your turn yet

I will need to fiddle with the console and nuke those stacks before you play - wait for me to upload an alternative save game file

[Askthepizzaguy]

lol consider them guardians of the realm until Pizzaguy is finally in command. But like I said, don't delete more troops than I am supposed to have. And if these troops have wrought havoc on my budget, please restore my treasury to at least 5000 florins.

[The Lemongate]

I checked and the extra stacks the Turkish AI receives are commanded by Gunduz, Murad and Orhan.

The starting generals for the Turks are Sultan Kilij Arslan, Crown Prince Kaikosru, Malik and Toghrul.

Start a game as ERE, toggle_fow, and go to turn 2, you should see 2 stacks appear near Konya (Murad, Gunduz) and 1 near Sivas (Orhan).

Now I know I'm being nitpicky about this, but since it seems we're going to war, and I feel like pizzaguy has waaaay more experience then me, I want a fair fight. Kilij Arslan has already enough horse archers for my liking thank you very much! There's just so much Latin Knights and Kypchack horse archer mercs I can hire!

[Askthepizzaguy]

OOC-

Not being nitpicky at all, Lemongate. I totally understand where you are coming from. If I were facing myself, I would protest an unfair fight as well.

But rest assuredly, the course towards war is the one you steer yourself. You still have time to mend our diplomatic rift before the mighty armies of the Sultan descend upon you.

[The Lemongate]

Lol, no need to feel all superior in the OOC thread :beam:

But trust me, I wasn't even going to attack the AI! Before you jump in me and my turkish buddy were gonna be all friendly for the first few turns. Of course, experience says the turkish AI tends to expand east... Now that's certainly something you changed! But imo, a war with a player is more fun, win or lose, then just trashing a poor AI! :2thumbsup:

[rossahh]

Sinan raises a good point - are we going to AARs for the game? (like the Crusaders hotseat)

Banzai Kamikaze, I could have warned that would happen. I benefitted from that deal way more than you did. However, you've got free reign on every rebel city south of me so get out there and sack, sack, sack and the money will come back. And if Xehh doesn't come back as Makuria, go rampage down in Africa. Soon enough you'll have the best economy even though you only have one neighboring faction (me).

[phonicsmonkey]

ok, I need some suggestions here as to what we should do

I checked the game and the three stacks have indeed appeared as per the script

upkeep has not yet been paid on these stacks as per the start of the turks' second turn, so there's no need to add any money to atpg's treasury

I'm informed by tincow and factionheir that there is no way to "nuke" a stack using the console

atpg can just disband all the troops in the stacks....except the three characters who have been spawned by the script, and their bodyguards

I can teleport these guys around but I can't kill them - I tried walking them across the straights near constantinople and stopping in the middle (like you would do with an unwanted agent) but I haven't been able to do that either

Any ideas as to what we should do with them?

[deguerra]

we can't sink them on a ship either?

[phonicsmonkey]

not a bad idea, but I can't see any pirates anywhere to send them up against...

[Ramses II CP]

That's strange, why didn't the crossing at Constantinople work? You kept hitting the backspace key right?

There's a longer crossing on the northern edge of the Arabian peninsula that it might be easier to drown them in. Teleport them over there and give it a try?

In the worst case if the ERE and Turkey are going to war for sure you can surround them with ERE armies and use the autowin cheat. If they can't retreat they'll die.

It may not seem like a big deal, but those family members are tough.

:egypt:

[phonicsmonkey]

ok, thanks Ramses I didn't realise you had to repeatedly hit the backspace key

00jebus, play your turn now

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/BC_02-11.zip

askthepizzaguy, I'll need to pick up the turn from 00jebus, drown your unwanted family members and repost it for you...so don't play your turn until you hear from me

sweet, all sorted

[Ramses II CP]

Heh! NP. If you've never had the run of aesthete, insane, 'foreign fruitcake' Kings like I had in my TI France run you might never have had to drown one before. :laugh4:

:egypt:

[Askthepizzaguy]

I look forward to finally playing, as mostly all that I have done thus far is yap, yap, yap like the little puppy dog owned by my English princess who spawned in Jedda during my England 58 turn blitz.

Good lord, when will I EVER shut up about that? Even I'm sick of hearing about it! Or maybe this is just a subtle bit of self-deprecating humor. Subtle... subtle... subtle... It's always subtle if you have to spend at least two lines hitting people over the head about how subtle it is.

:smash: :smash: :smash: :smash:
:skull:---:skull:--:skull:---:skull:

I DONT DO SUBTLE VERY WELL

Err... what was I talking about again?

[phonicsmonkey]

see pizzaguy I knew you'd enjoy this hotseat stuff

look how much fun you're having already without even a single in-game mouseclick

:balloon2:

[Askthepizzaguy]

I await my turn with growing unrest...

My ambassador has already turned to the spiritous drinks of the west and become drunk on the floor of the Caliph's assembly. I don't think he can handle the pressure of real-world diplomacy.

[00jebus]

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/BC-02-12.rar



latest save, for the monkey to nuke the turks with...

[phonicsmonkey]

Dingdong the Turks are dead,
Which old Turks?
The extra Turks!
Dingdong the extra Turks are dead!

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/BC_02-12.zip

[deguerra]

Yay. Dirty Oman can almost have its second turn

[The Lemongate]

Dingdong the Turks are dead,
Which old Turks?
The extra Turks!
Dingdong the extra Turks are dead!


I think I'll write this song down and keep it handy~;)

[Askthepizzaguy]

Cannot open the file. I usually play on small unit size. Could that be affecting why I cannot open it?

I am attempting yet another reinstall. First the 1.03 patch, then BC, then the 1.5 patch, then the 3 fixes, all over again.

[rossahh]

It depends on what it's doing. Does it just not open (like you click on it and all it does is take you to the main menu)?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Precisely. The game fuctions properly, but when I open the save file, it tries to load, then brings me back to the Main menu

[Askthepizzaguy]

What is the official unit size for this game?

[Ramses II CP]

I believe they're huge units. 45 elephants from what I recall, and that's huge.

If you're dropping back to the main menu that shouldn't be a unit sizes issue. I'll check and see if I can load the save and view the Turkish 'enter password' screen.

:egypt:

[rossahh]

Your settings wouldn't matter as they're carried on by the saves. I just tried the save file and it went straight to the Turks password page so it's got to be your game.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Sigh. Oh very well... I am halfway through the third reinstall.

I do appreciate the help, fellas. I would like to actually join this game at some point. LOL.

If I can't, it's been fun...

[Ramses II CP]

Yeah, the save loaded for me. I'm non-Kingdoms, version 1.3, BC 1.05, with all three hotfixes installed.

See if you can start a Turkey game in single player mode?

:egypt:

[deguerra]

The "back to menu" things does always seem to have something to do with the installation. But seeing as you've done several new ones, I can't imagine what it would be.

Just be 100% sure all the fixes went to the right place I guess. Beyond that I cannot imagine what it would be

[Askthepizzaguy]

Due to an oversight a small but annoying UI issue was introduced by patch 1.05. To fix it extract this archive into your broken_crescent folder.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=8060&d=1200944035

Heres a problem.

Does this vague instruction mean just dump the file into Broken_crescent?

I'm almost POSITIVE its supposed to go somewhere else. There is already a "data" file in BC and doing as I am instructed overwrites it. thus deleting massive amounts of data I need.

[rossahh]

The problem with the 3 hot-fixes is they have different extract paths, so you have to be careful when extracting them. The UI one must extract straight into your "broken cresecent" folder while the other two extract into your "broken crescent/data" folder.

I'm a bit different to Ramses (Kingdoms -> 1.3, the BC quick-fixes installed, the BC 1.05 patch installed and the 3 hot-fixes updated) yet the game/s still works.


Edit: it's the UI one that must be installed through the bc folder not the data folder

[Askthepizzaguy]

wont extracting into my data folder overwrite folders that I need?

[Ramses II CP]

If you want to drill down and make sure you only replace files instead of folders that won't mess up your install. So just navigate to MTWII/data/ui/middle_eastern/buildings and copy the files from that level of the .zip into the actual MTWII install folder, then go into the same path /construction and do the same.

It will overwrite some files, as it's intended to, but your folder structure will guaranteed be preserved that way.

:egypt:

[rossahh]

I'm talking about when you select the place you want to extract the wnzip files to (as in their output/path/destination/whatever). For the UI fix, just select your broken_crescent folder. The files will be put in their right places (in the data folder, even though you didn't select the data folder). For the other two, select the broken cresecent data folder as the place where the files will be extracted to. For all three fixes though, you will need to overwrite some of the pre-existing files and you must say "yes" to those prompts as you are replacing old files with new versions of them.

[Askthepizzaguy]

1) Download: http://www.brokencrescent.com/Download/QuickFixes/siege_zone_update.zip
2) Unzip into C:\Program Files\SEGA\Medieval II Total War\Broken_Crescent\data\world\maps\base and overwrite.
3) Delete map.rwm from C:\Program Files\SEGA\Medieval II Total War\Broken_Crescent\data\world\maps\base
4) Save game compatible.


Am I supposed to do something on step 4? I dont understand what "save game compatible" is supposed to indicate, as it's a sentence fragment and very vague as either an instruction or a declaration.

[deguerra]

99.9% sure its just a declaration and has nothing to do with 1-3

[Ramses II CP]

It's just to let people know that save games from before this fix still work afterward.

So, no, it's not actually an instruction. The BC guys are a little haphazard with the instructions. :laugh4:

:egypt:

[Askthepizzaguy]

I was fairly sure... but since I've been having issues, I have to verify anything that might be even remotely ambiguous.

[Askthepizzaguy]

This update will fix some issues with AI missile units and skirmish behavior. It should also make the AI utilize its formation better.

Unzip into ..\broken_crescent\data and overwrite.

Please confirm this is supposed to go in \data.

(Im guessing so, since everyone else's files are working...)

[deguerra]

well generally, if its overwriting something thats a good things. will check though. just a sec

[deguerra]

yep data is correct

[Askthepizzaguy]

OK! File working now

.......

..........................

Hey!

If we are to delete the added troops, doesn't it makes sense to give me the florins I was supposed to start with?

Nevermind. I will make do. I grow weary of not being able to play.
:smash:

[Charge]

On a side note: deleting spawn entries for these armies in campaign script (and all sp-only stuff) fixes it for my one-player's-hotseat... (not save game compatible though..)

Is it a good idea for next hotseat?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Ok where do I upload the save turn file to?

[Ramses II CP]

The Org's own filespace:

http://www.totalwar.org/Downloads/Uploaders/pbmupload.php

edit: Also, FYI, there's an alternate in the event the one above is down:

http://www.mizus.com/files/pbmupload.php

:egypt:

[Askthepizzaguy]

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/BC_02-13.zip

I hope the link works.

[Ramses II CP]

Link works, couldn'te test save.

:egypt:

[deguerra]

its my turn, will try it now

[Askthepizzaguy]

Kind Mr. Deguerra, please wait. The administrator of this game needs to rectify a very unfair situation first.

The game is spawning armies for human factions. The admin needs to eliminate these armies if the game is to be fair.

Not just for the Turks, but the ERE as well, I contend.

EDIT: Sorry all! I truly do not mean to be a party pooper! :sad:

Let's get the game fixed and back on track. I know it will be fun once things get rolling.

[deguerra]

orright ive done my turn. will wait to see what phonicsmonkey says before posting it

[Askthepizzaguy]

I thank you all for patience in this matter.

[rossahh]

How could the ERE get free stacks when they were always a human-controlled faction?

The Ayyubids didn't get their free stacks even though they started as an AI but were switched to human control.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I don't understand it either. But the evidence speaks for itself, I have presented it to phonicsmonkey for his inspection.

I will submit to his ruling on the matter, however I can prove beyond any doubt that it is impossible for the ERE to recruit that many troops by turn 2, especially the type and quality of those troops.

The evidence is unmistakeable. I will most likely be vindicated here, and if not... :thumbsdown:

As I said, I will submit to phonicsmonkey's judgment on this matter.

[rossahh]

Start a fresh campaign as the ERE, build as many troops / hire as many mercenaries as possible in two turns and then march them all eastwards, see how it goes and then ask yourself whether it's familiar or not.

If you're still not convinced, start a new one as the Turks, turn of FOW, end the first few turns and see whether it's scripted for them to get some free stacks (I have no idea, I've never been the Turks).

[Askthepizzaguy]

Thats EXACTLY what I did when I saw those stacks. It's well beyond anything a human can accomplish. That is why I am 100 percent certain.

It's no fault of Lemongate. It's the program which is simply doing what it is programmed to do. I am just asking for a fix.

EDIT: I have also played as the Turks on single player. They are exactly the number, type, and location of the spawned AI armies.

[rossahh]

Well, as the Turks, the ERE got two fresh stacks of troops in turn 1, so that's possible (under the family members Basil and Dramos?).

You could build a fair few troops though within 2 turns, the problem would be pooling them together to make big armies as you're pretty spread out at the start.

[Askthepizzaguy]

At present with the (allegedly) illegal armies of the ERE, it is a forced win if they simply march east. There is literally nothing I can do. I can't even amass (censored number) stacks of bad troops, let alone (censored number) or more good ones. If it were possible for me to compensate for this somehow, I might be a good sport and just take it as a challenge. But it's simply not doable versus a competent human will illegal armies.

[rossahh]

Are the names of the generals Basil and Dragos? They are the names of the two who are spawned in sp with the stacks.

[Askthepizzaguy]

didn't catch their names. Was too busy putting my jaw back on my face at the troop levels and type of troops.

Imagine General George Washington driving a tank. That's the equivalent of what I saw.

Anyways. Let's let PM decide.

[phonicsmonkey]

ok, let me take a look and I'll let you know

if the game has spawned extra stacks for the ERE I'll jump in at the beginning of The Lemongate's turn and nuke 'em

deguerra, you can take your turn and post the savefile in the meantime

The Lemongate, pls don't play until I say so

[The Lemongate]

As far as I know, I haven't had spawns on my turn 2. The only troops I have seen are the ones I start with. And they are quite good. But if Basil and Dragos did appear then nuke 'em! The only armies I have in the field are commanded by Ioannes Ducas, Prince Alexius, Andronicus Kontostephanos and some nameless captain, all of which are starting characters.

This would be weird since the spawns are supposed to appear at the end of the first turn...

[phonicsmonkey]

Yes indeed, Messrs Basil and Dragos have appeared with full stacks of troops

I checked back and they weren't there at the start of the ERE's second turn, so I can only guess something funny is going on with the script

So, I will need to intervene at the start of The Lemongate's turn to drown the feckers...deguerra, pls upload your turn and I'll step in

The Lemongate, please wait for further instructions

we thought some odd things like this might happen if we switched AI factions to human control after the game had started - I'm quoting myself here from page 4 of this thread:


As I understand it, some of the scripts are set up to run only when a faction is AI-controlled - I think this includes the garrison script, and the script that gives the Kypchaks extra stacks when they unite the steppes - this should be the case regardless of how many human players there are in the game.

This could cause us problems if a) they don't work like that in practice, or b) we switch factions between AI and human control at the time those scripts are activated.

If we see anything like this we should report it to the BC team so they can maybe fix it in later releases.

Other scripts are set to run all the time, regardless of whether the faction is AI or human controlled - this includes the script that allows certain factions to horde if their last settlement is taken. I have asked at the twcenter for a list of these factions, but no response so far.

Either way, we'll just have to play the game as it comes, bearing in mind it's an early release of a complex mod and not perfect.

[Askthepizzaguy]

As far as I know, I haven't had spawns on my turn 2. The only troops I have seen are the ones I start with. And they are quite good. But if Basil and Dragos did appear then nuke 'em! The only armies I have in the field are commanded by Ioannes Ducas, Prince Alexius, Andronicus Kontostephanos and some nameless captain, all of which are starting characters.

This would be weird since the spawns are supposed to appear at the end of the first turn...

I thought it would have been odd if they showed up and you didn't say nothin. Mostly I suspected these buggers showed up after you hit the end turn button and were blissfully unawares.

Anywho. No one was at fault, and the situation will be resolved.

Great thanks go out to everyone who has:

1. Encouraged and helped me join this game
2. Been patient when things didn't go well the first time
3. Continued being patient when I had to blow the whistle this time

I cannot wait for this game to unfold properly. I am going to love playing with you guys. Already, most of you have responded to me diplomatically, even if only to just say hello.

:bow:

I'm lovin it!

I will ask everyone to keep an eye on their own troop levels. If you suddenly spawn a stack of doom or three, please tell PM so your neighbors won't be unduly crushed by blind luck rather than good leadership.

[phonicsmonkey]

Glad you're enjoying it atpg

[deguerra]

sorry for the wait. these alleged "real-life friends" showed up and wasted my time ;)

here it is:

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/BC_03-01.rar

[barcamartin]

Yay, the second turn complete !! :D

[phonicsmonkey]

The Lemongate - please read my pm and follow the instructions

I'll be back in about ten hours or so to finish the job and re-post the save for you

[Ferret]

I'm glad no one in my corner changed to AI

[The Lemongate]

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/BC_03-01alt.rar

Here it is. Now, however, is another problem... a bit harder to deal with. From experience my treasury should be around -1500 to -2500 after my first few moves (I'm not terribly original for the starting turns). Now it's at -7500... There's not way I could've spent that much, upkeep included... that's our spawned friends... soooo, whatever really. If you decide to leave it at what it is, I'll take that as an handicap and move on.

[Ramses II CP]

I'm glad the Rajputs don't get any auto-stacks as well, although since I only start with one city and one army it'd be extremely obvious. :laugh4:

:egypt:

[phonicsmonkey]

ok, The Lemongate, here is the link for you to finish your turn - you had paid upkeep on those spawned stacks so I added back that cash to your treasury

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/BC-03-01.zip

[Askthepizzaguy]

:smash: :smash: :smash:

Phonicsmonkey deserves an award just for his great judiciousness here in this game alone.

Thanks for helping both the Turks and the ERE play fairly, without handicaps or unfair advantages!

[phonicsmonkey]

aw shucks

[The Lemongate]

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/BC-03-02.rar

Georgia up!

[Anonymous_henchman]

Us non-Muslims have to stick together.

The Muslims are nothing but a pack of treacherous dogs... totally unworthy of trust. I would urge the non-Muslims to form an alliance.

Just a suggestion from a passing stranger...

[Zim]

I hear they eat babies, too, and research is still out on whether or not they cause cancer.


The Muslims are nothing but a pack of treacherous dogs... totally unworthy of trust. I would urge the non-Muslims to form an alliance.

Just a suggestion from a passing stranger...

[TheFlax]

Armenia's turn.

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/BC-03-03.zip

[Askthepizzaguy]

The Muslims are nothing but a pack of treacherous dogs... totally unworthy of trust. I would urge the non-Muslims to form an alliance.

Just a suggestion from a passing stranger...

I tend to agree with Zim. Such comments are inflammatory and are not welcome here.

My nation and many others seek peace with non-Muslims, even alliances if applicable.

[_Tristan_]

Save for Jerusalem

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/BC-03-04.rar

[00jebus]

The Muslims are nothing but a pack of treacherous dogs... totally unworthy of trust. I would urge the non-Muslims to form an alliance.

Just a suggestion from a passing stranger...



someone's been reading the daily mail



question for phonicsmonkey, what currency are we using for this game?
It just doesn't feel right saying florins, considering most of us are middle eastern nations... and how would the Indian factions get any in the first place?

[The Lemongate]

Up to now I've called it gold... though silver might be more appropriate.

[Ramses II CP]

Florins isn't really appropriate for the base MTWII map either, it's just a sort of generic term. Unfortunately there's no clear successor to that generic term for the BC region. Silver works fine for me, or gold, or we could stick with 'florins' and just use it in the generic sense of wealth.

:egypt:

[phonicsmonkey]

What about shekkels?

[Ramses II CP]

I imagine the far east would've seen about as many of those as florins, not that I'm an expert on ancient coinage or anything. :book:

:egypt:

[phonicsmonkey]

the mamluks used gold Ashafri and silver Dirhams...:book:

the internet is a wonderful thing

[Zim]

I think I remmber reading that in a lot of the BC map (everything from Persia to the western end) Byzantine Denarii were fairly common in this time period.

I could be wrong, it's been a while. :book:

[Ramses II CP]

Denarii sounds reasonable for the western half of the map... but that's just half, and it'd still be odd for Makuria I think.

:egypt:

[Zim]

Just out of curiosity, is this the kind of thing that will be coming up often? :clown:

Never even noticed what currency BC had. I assume thye didn't change it?

[phonicsmonkey]

question for phonicsmonkey, what currency are we using for this game?
It just doesn't feel right saying florins, considering most of us are middle eastern nations... and how would the Indian factions get any in the first place?

basically mate, call 'em what you like, we'll know what you mean...

[phonicsmonkey]

I have created a story thread (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=100395) for the game - turn reports etc. will probably lag a few turns in order to keep things secret where necessary...

feel free to post anything IC inspired by the game, so long as it is consistent with and related to events in the game.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I appreciate the idea, Caliph, however the Rum Turks request that all refrain from posting information about the Turkish lands, status, battles, and movement.

I will want to post my own separate thread regarding my entire campaign, and it would spoil the story if it were leaked by other nations. If they desire it, friend or foe, I will respect their same wishes in the matter.

[phonicsmonkey]

Here's (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=95433) an example of what I'm getting at.

It's become customary for each hotseat at the Org to have a story thread - it's not always heavily used, depends on the players in the game and how much they want to write about it.

I'm not sure you can really stop other people posting about their contact with the Turks if they want to - they will either abide by your request or not..

but if your other campaign threads are anything to go by I'm sure your own campaign thread will be well worth reading regardless of what has been posted in this one

you might also consider serialising your thread in our one and then compiling it in one place later...

[The Lemongate]

I appreciate the idea, Caliph, however the Rum Turks request that all refrain from posting information about the Turkish lands, status, battles, and movement.

I will want to post my own separate thread regarding my entire campaign, and it would spoil the story if it were leaked by other nations. If they desire it, friend or foe, I will respect their same wishes in the matter.


I was thinking of doing about the same thing, but I don't really mind fitting in other people's stories :yes:

I'll probably be going with a title like Delusions of Grandeur - An Epic Tale of Bankruptcy and Overstretched Supply Lines:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:

[Askthepizzaguy]

OOC-Lemongate, now that you are online, perhaps now would be a good time to discuss the terms of a treaty.

Humble suggestion only...

[rossahh]

phonicsmonkey, you are up.


http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/BC-03-05.rar

[phonicsmonkey]

Seljuks are up

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/BC-03-06.zip

[barcamartin]

Seljuks done, Ghazni up.

http://www.mizus.com/files/pbm/BC-03-07.zip

[Zim]

Ghorids are up.

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/BC-03-08.zip

[Askthepizzaguy]

tick tock....

:policeman:

[Ferret]

sorry, Rajputs: http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/BC-03-09.rar

[Ramses II CP]

I'll have it done in ~3 hours, busy day. :beam:

Edit: Done, Ayyubids are up:

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/BC-03-10.zip

:egypt:

[Banzai Kamikaze]

The Shah is up.

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/BC-03-11.zip

[00jebus]

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/BC-03-12.rar


Rum time

[Askthepizzaguy]

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/BC-03-13.zip

The Omans are up

I woke up in the middle of a most pleasant rest just so yall can get yer turns faster.

[deguerra]

Another turn done. Not as speedy this time though.

The "Romans" are up:

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/BC-04-01.rar

[barcamartin]

Fast enough though. I must say this hotseat is moving pretty fast. Guess the thrill of the first BC Hotseat motivates people. :)

[00jebus]

takes about 3 days to do a turn, thats fast?

how long does it normally take?
and how long do KotR turns take? I can sorta imagine they'd be faster when it gets going

still, not wrong though, much more fun than single player :P

[Askthepizzaguy]

Absolutely.

In the interests of providing the most amount of fun for all, I've been much more peace-oriented in my diplomatic dealings. Anyone who would rather be my ally than my enemy has that oppurtunity.

I welcome friends and will not hesitate to crush my foes. I'm not treating this campaign as a blitz, and since this is my first hotseat game, I want to establish my reputation as both reasonable and trustworthy, and as some have already observed, generous.

:bow:

I can be an evil bastard if I want to be. But that would be less fun for my neighbors.

[Ramses II CP]

Heh, when the original MPC was still struggling to get going turns could sometimes take a week or two, easily, with half as many players as the BC hotseat. So, yes, 3 days for 16 (?) people is fast. :yes:

:egypt:

[Ferret]

Absolutely.

In the interests of providing the most amount of fun for all, I've been much more peace-oriented in my diplomatic dealings. Anyone who would rather be my ally than my enemy has that oppurtunity.

I welcome friends and will not hesitate to crush my foes. I'm not treating this campaign as a blitz, and since this is my first hotseat game, I want to establish my reputation as both reasonable and trustworthy, and as some have already observed, generous.

:bow:

I can be an evil bastard if I want to be. But that would be less fun for my neighbors.

you seem very cocky for your first game, I reckon Tristan and Ramses would shut you up if you had a war with either of them :beam:

[Askthepizzaguy]

you seem very cocky for your first game, I reckon Tristan and Ramses would shut you up if you had a war with either of them :beam:

My apologies. I have only my single player record to go on. I also know of Tristan's reputation as a conqueror. Unfortunately for him, the faction he picked is weak against horse archery, his economy is much smaller than mine, and my troop numbers are roughly triple what his are. That's why I've sought an alliance with him. With a reputation like his, he would make a powerful ally. Plus, it's not my place to attack him dishonourably at this early venture when his capital is so exposed. That would be very cheap. Spies scouting the area also revealed nothing lying in wait, so he does not have the necessary force to destroy me at this time.

Ramses and I are good friends, and even if we were to go to war, it would be a long, long time from now.

I would also point out that I have sought peace with EVERY SINGLE PERSON in the game so far. Most have agreed that war is not in their interest, and I will continue to respect and honour that. I need to build my reputation, as stated prior.

Thus far, I only have one committed ally, so more would be lovely. Especially if it serves to halt war.

One student of history might point out that alliances have actually done more to start wars than prevent them, actually. However, more allies on my side would bring peace to Anatolia. That's a start.

At this point, the only thing I actually fear is if everyone in the game allied and decided to destroy me immediately. That wouldn't be much fun, and I don't believe I've done anything so far to warrant such a rash action.

[Ferret]

yeah fair enough I wasn't accusing you of using that I just found the fact that you would 'crush your enemies' no matter who they were amusing, things are very different in multiplayer. In any case I know I wouldn't have a chance against most people here.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Well if you had enemies, wouldn't you crush them immediately?
:laugh2:
I didn't say I felt confident in my current strategic situation, not at all. This is a most distressing time for the Rum Turks, being surrounded by Christian factions, one of whom has large armies near my borders, two are allied against me, and the third is Tristan. Need I say more?

What I meant to say was, with every ounce of strength, and to the last man, with brutal revenge for any attacks on our soil, I will tolerate aggression from no faction and personally make their lives miserable if I can.

Should they win the day, they managed to defeat a completely surrounded foe who didn't even have time to mobilize his troops. Bravo for them. Dishonourable though.

:bow:

[Ramses II CP]

Heh, a splash of personality is a good thing in a hotseat game, otherwise things might drag on and get dull. Glad to have you ATPG. :beam:

As far as wars, I don't intend to declare any. I expect I'll be attacked eventually, but patience is a virtue, especially in my position.

:egypt:

[_Tristan_]

At this point, the only thing I actually fear is if everyone in the game allied and decided to destroy me immediately. That wouldn't be much fun, and I don't believe I've done anything so far to warrant such a rash action.
Even that doesn't eventually spell doom if you have the right faction for the job (like ERE or KoJ) as evidenced by my fighting four factions at once as the Teutonic Order and running two of them into the grave...

Anyway, there is only so much factions who could take a shot at you...:rifle:

[Askthepizzaguy]

I feel that if I give Tristan relief from his entire northern and westen borders, he might actually be able to build Armenia into a mighty faction. Whether he decides to be an ally or an enemy at that point, either way... the game will be more interesting.

I'm hoping Georgia isn't completely wiped out either. I'd like everyone to continue playing as long as possible, and I personally intend to resurrect any nations who have been vanquished if I have the ability to do so.

[TheFlax]

I'm hoping Georgia isn't completely wiped out either. I'd like everyone to continue playing as long as possible, and I personally intend to resurrect any nations who have been vanquished if I have the ability to do so.

Don't worry too much, Georgia is still alive and even though I'm not very good Total War player, I'll do my best to stay alive. :beam:

Thanks to barcamartin and his decision not to wipe me out, I'll be able to play a bit longer. :) (I'm not sure how long I would have lasted if we had really gone to war)

[Askthepizzaguy]

If he had been able to maintain the offensive, your empire would quickly crumble once either your main income province or main recruitment province is sacked.

Without either the florins or the barracks to wage war indefinitley, he could commit to the war until all your troops were dead, and you would be bankrupt and/or unable to recruit. At that point it is wise to press for vassalage.

Imagine if the ERE lost Constantinople or their main castle. That's pretty much all you need to do to beat them... just evade their main stacks and soon the quality of their armies will deteriorate and unless they have the strength to counterattack and sack their way back from the dead, they are toast.

You always need your capital or main income generator, and you always need a place to recruit troops. Lose either, and your war is on the verge of being lost.

It's a great way to cripple even a larger empire, because it deals a devastating blow in the middle of a war which can push the balance of power in favor of the attacker.

So defend your capital and barracks for as long as possible if you wish to remain independent.

I would expand your empire into the Kypchak domain if you wish to rebuild your empire. The Seljuks will not give up territory, and I have my eyes on the stuff south of you. Most peaceful way to expand is to your north and west.

ATPG's Lesson of Wars of Attrition:

Once the enemy's economy is destroyed, their own standing armies will push them into bankruptcy and prevent all new recruitment until they begin to sack cities or they lose a lot of troops.

Better is to destroy their main recruitment centers. That way even when they have money, they cannot replace lost troops. At that point, just send all your non-essential generals and troops at them until they are all dead. Doesn't matter if you lose them 10 to 1, so long as they slowly die. No reinforcements and no new income sources means they lose.

There are exceptions; if the enemy has a vast empire, you need to maintain the offensive and continue destroying recruitment centers and their economy. Ignore their armies unless you need to defend your own territory.

Once your enemy has no recruitment capabilities of note, see if you cannot force them into a defensive seige situation with their remaining troops. With no relief forces, you can seige them into oblivion and if they sally, they will die even quicker.

As such, I guard my capital and my main castle like a hawk, and friend or foe, I will destroy anything that comes within 100 miles of them.

Fighting the long war of attrition:

If you manage to destroy a lot of their economy and they have lots of troops remaining, go on the defensive! Their massive armies, minus the budget to pay for them, will either result in:

1. DEEP bankruptcy after several turns, preventing any recovery in the short term.
2. The enemy will voluntarily disband huge patches of their own forces, thus weakening them further
3. If you've already destroyed thier recruitment centers too, find a mountain pass or a bridge near their stacks and make them fight a terrible, terrible battle to make them lose troops. Works really well if you're near one of their remaining cities.

This also allows you to

1. Reinforce your weary troops
2. Disband unneccessary stacks of your own troops, completely boosting your budget and giving you reserves
3. More easily protect the lives of your offensive stacks while on campaign

[rossahh]

This is a most distressing time for the Rum Turks, being surrounded by Christian factions, one of whom has large armies near my borders, two are allied against me, and the third is Tristan

This is multiplayer, how do you who is really allied to who?

[Zim]

The Roman player and Georgian one are apparently allied judging from Council statements, although I suppose that doesn't really answer your question. :clown:


This is multiplayer, how do you who is really allied to who?

[deguerra]

:whip:

I was being slightly sarcastic about the speed issue. We were slower than on turn 2, but we're still much faster than all the other hotseats of similar numbers of players, and even faster than some of the much smaller ones.

What makes this hotseat interesting, is the abilitty to fight your own offensive battles. It means horsearchers actually have a chance (they are incredibly useless in autocalc), but it also means a whole new strategy is required in terms of army management.

In a traditional "auto-calc" hotseat, I've found that armies are usually to be found in the field, because leaving people in settlements is liable to have them all lost to a siege. In a field battle, at least you can retreat.

Here, however, as the Georgian example shows, leaving a large army outside of a settlement is deadly, because let's face it, even the Very Hard AI is not going to be able to stand up to a determined player. Initially, I must admit I thought it a bad idea to allow actual battles. But really it just imposes similar restrictions as the "auto-calc" rule, just on the other end of the spectrum.

It will be interesting to see if players like Tristan (who I have the highest respect for, both in terms of his mastery of the strategic element of hotseat games, and the utter and complete mastery of the mystery that are auto-calc battles) can adapt, or if players like askthepizzaguy (who I have the highest respect for after seeing the world conquered on turn 28, when my own turn 28 usually involves: "A crusade? Again? Stupid pope...my economy was just getting underway") whom I assume to be very good at the actual battles has the edge. Of course, on the fringes, there is me, who hasn't mastered the hotseat, hasn't mastered the battles, and is stuck with Oman in any case (did you know I didn't even get a diplomat at the start!)

:D

[Zim]

Heh, I feel your pain regarding Oman's lack of a diplomat. I played them very briefly in the first TWC BC hotseat. The fact that their economy seems to be run on dirt farming or something similiarly unproductive doesn't help them much.

[The Lemongate]

This turn was... interesting. I still have to see if ATPG is only babbling about peace or if he tells the truth and I guess we should know that in a few days ~;)

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/BC-04-02.rar

Georgia up!

[Ramses II CP]

What happened in that hotseat Zim? I'm betting we'd all like to know.

:egypt:

[Zim]

Some alliances were made but the game ran into palyer and password issues. A new one's been started and I'm playing the Kypchaks. :charge: Things seem stable now but it's moving more slowly than this one.

[barcamartin]

There aren't many hotseats that can compare to the pace in this one. I must say though that the TWC one (where I am Armenia) has been moving along quite nicely the last couple of days.

[TheFlax]

Go for Armenia!

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/BC-04-03.zip

[Askthepizzaguy]

This is multiplayer, how do you who is really allied to who?

The uh... Roman and the Georgian have an actual, permanent alliance. It's plainly viewable in the diplomacy screen, and both have declared it to me. And others have informed me of it when I joined the game.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Some alliances were made but the game ran into palyer and password issues. A new one's been started and I'm playing the Kypchaks. :charge: Things seem stable now but it's moving more slowly than this one.
I did a quick single player on the Kypchaks. Here's my first impression:

I completely and apologetically withdraw my comments about them being useless.

Not only can you quickly control the entire northwest portion of the map, they have good, very good cavalry armies. Having actual buffer territory between yourself and your enemy, especially in terms of your castles and capital is NOT to be underestimated.

I could crush the Mongols single-handedly with that faction. Just give me the three stacks that I can easily build and plop me down on a river crossing. During the whole thing I will actually MAKE MONEY.

So, GO KYPCHAKS!!!

[Zim]

Being nomadic, they can also supposedly recruit most of their cavalry anywhere in the map, as opposed to the somewhat harsh Area of Recruitment limitations for the other factions. They also get a few free stacks once the "unite the steppes" event has occurred, at least if you can believe the people at the BC forums. All in all a good faction with which to roll up the map.

Did I forget to mention that when you were choosing a faction? :hide:

What do you mean? It had nothing to do with what a great blitzer could do with such a faction. Nothing at all...Just ask me. :clown:


I did a quick single player on the Kypchaks. Here's my first impression:

I completely and apologetically withdraw my comments about them being useless.

Not only can you quickly control the entire northwest portion of the map, they have good, very good cavalry armies. Having actual buffer territory between yourself and your enemy, especially in terms of your castles and capital is NOT to be underestimated.

I could crush the Mongols single-handedly with that faction. Just give me the three stacks that I can easily build and plop me down on a river crossing. During the whole thing I will actually MAKE MONEY.

So, GO KYPCHAKS!!!

[rossahh]

I don't know about you guys but I play hotseats not to blitz or even to fight with my armies - I play for the intrigue and challenges of dealing with human players.

[Askthepizzaguy]

It is regrettable that you did not say so... Zim

If you had, my situation would be much more peaceful. As it is, hostile powers are advancing upon me and my allies. War has just started, according to a secret communique I recieved.

I would have been able to ally with the parties in question, rather than be forced into war. And I would have been much more able to repel the Mongol invasion with the rest of you guys.

Alas, this is not the path I have chosen. The fate of the Rum Sultanate will soon be decided.

[Zim]

If you've been planning a slow, peaceful game all along learning that the Kypchaks are an excellent blitzing faction probably wouldn't have swayed you. ~;p

If I recall correctly, your dismissal of them was that you did not want a corner faction, thought they would be poor, and feared none would ally with them. They are indeed a corner faction and, while not in the same boat as Oman, they are pretty poor compared to most factions. Long distances between cities in BC means high corruption, and several Kypchak players have complained in the BC forums that they conquered the Steppes only to have multiple towns making no profit at all, or even losing money from having to pay a small garrison. They also happen to be in the way of possible Roman, Georgian, Seljuk, and Kwarezhm expansion routes, which could have caused tensions.

Plus, they lack priests and, according to one complaining poster, assassins and spies as well. They also cannot build ships, but move rates for cavalry in BC are so large that isn't much of a handicap.

I haven't played a game with them beyond my 1-2 turns in the TWC hotseat, so I can't really verify what I've read about them in the forums.

[rossahh]

If someone has attacked you ATPG, make an announcment in the court. Those sort of things are probably better to discuss in the court than in this thread.


Zim: I didn't think any faction got priests in BC, right?

[Askthepizzaguy]

I am waiting on verification of war before I make any rash announcements.

EDIT" Upper tier religious buildings for Islamic factions allow Imams to be recruited. I would assume the reverse is true for non-pagan factions.

[Zim]

Yep. Currently only the Kypchaks and Makurians do not get some kind of priest unit.



I am waiting on verification of war before I make any rash announcements.

EDIT" Upper tier religious buildings for Islamic factions allow Imams to be recruited. I would assume the reverse is true for non-pagan factions.

[Ramses II CP]

The Kypchaks have awesome advantages, but unless you do a classic blitz I think their negatives will outweigh them over the long term. It comes down to money and order, you have to sack to keep up your cash flow, and you have no priests and weak religious structures. Their unit roster is solid though, and like I said I'd put them in the top three for blitzing, but for a long term game they would be a difficult faction.

Personally I think the Seljuks are #1 for a blitz for the simple reason that they start in the middle of the map. They can expand voraciously while still preserving sea trade lanes for a couple of coastal cities. They're in striking range of Baghdad within, IIRC, two turns of the start as well, which is a huge boost.

:egypt:

[Askthepizzaguy]

I offer this as a possible Kypchak strategem:

castles in outlying provinces will maintain public order. They can be left for the rebels to occupy if they become a burden.

Expand towards Jerusalem, and place your capital in the Turkish domain to improve public order and corruption in the realm. The rebel provinces to the north will provide some defense against the Mongols.

Kypchaks can easily crush the Romans, spread through Turkish lands, and take on Jerusalem. By then they will be unstoppable. For money, use merchants and trade with the far east.

I have a merchant in my SP campaign earning over 1000 per turn. That will cover the cost of corruption. As for priests, if you move quickly enough, no one will have any and the sacking florins will cover your continued expansion.

Leave your core provinces intact and decimate all the buildings in territories left to become rebel. Then move south and keep moving your capital to wherever it is most profitable.

[barcamartin]

Personally I think the Seljuks are #1 for a blitz for the simple reason that they start in the middle of the map. They can expand voraciously while still preserving sea trade lanes for a couple of coastal cities. They're in striking range of Baghdad within, IIRC, two turns of the start as well, which is a huge boost.

So that's why you have been "anti-Seljuk" in the council ?:clown:

I have no intentions to blitz the map, Ramses, and I don't think I could even if I wanted to. So no worries there. ;)

[00jebus]

afraid of fighting the mean ol' monguls ATPG?

tut tut tut...


my kypchak plan;
Grab Kiev and the Crimea, get ports, black sea trade is usually good enough to sustain further expansions, head east until you hit the caspian, doing this means you unite the steppes = 2 nice new shiny armies

take the nice new shiny armies to baghdad, sack it, keep it... the Abbsaids should have built it up... so hello big money

from there, do what you like, its not like you can lose at that point.

Capital should be somewhere near Yerevan when your done.

note: havn't played any steppe faction since Saka in EB... several months ago, so dont blame me if it doesn't work.


edited, just because I can now :D

[barcamartin]

Go for Armenia!

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/BC-04-03.zip

Just thought it needed a bump. :clown:

Can't wait for my turn, things seem to be heating up in Anatolia !

[_Tristan_]

Save for Jerusalem is here :

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/BC-04-04.rar

And announcement made in the council thread...

All hail the mighty Romans picking on the lowly Armenians...

[Zim]

Looking at history, the Armenians seem to spend entirely too much time being picked on by the Romans or Turks...


Save for Jerusalem is here :

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/BC-04-04.rar

And announcement made in the council thread...

All hail the mighty Romans picking on the lowly Armenians...

[00jebus]

All hail the mighty Romans picking on the lowly Armenians...



The romans are chasing the hai! :laugh4:





*hangs head in shame*

[rossahh]

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/BC-04-05.rar

[Ramses II CP]

So that's why you have been "anti-Seljuk" in the council ?:clown:

I have no intentions to blitz the map, Ramses, and I don't think I could even if I wanted to. So no worries there. ;)

Hah! No, I just had to pick between a power that could get to me and one that couldn't. Not a hard choice. It would've been the same with anyone the Ghazni or Ghorids opposed. :yes:

:egypt:

[phonicsmonkey]

seljuks are up

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/BC-04-06.zip

[Askthepizzaguy]

The Sultan of Rum has made an offer of peace to the Romans in exchange for their surrender, and also has issued a proclamation which you all will profit from. See the diplomacy thread.

[barcamartin]

Seljuks done, Ghazni up !

http://www.mizus.com/files/pbm/BC-04-07.zip

[Askthepizzaguy]

It has come to my attention that the line between in character and out of character has been blurred on my part. I must offer my solemn apologies to anyone I've unintentionally offended by my zeal to roleplay this game as both a chivarlous leader, but a man of iron who will not be bullied.

If this "character" has escaped from the confines of my creative mind, I must make amends.

I truly wish all of you enjoy this game, friend and foe alike, no matter the outcome. It is just a game to me, albeit a very fun one. It was never my intention to make anyone feel slighted personally or made unwelcome.

It is my error and no one elses. Please forgive me, as this is my first hotseat game and I can barely control my enthusiasm.

In person, I am nothing like myself in character. Most of you know this already. I hope this solemn and public apology will serve to highlight my true nature and motivations.

Let's all enjoy this friendly game. I will confine my "character" back where he belongs, in the Caliph's Court.

I consider this a great personal failure on my part... lol I had actually been trying to suck up to most of you and be as friendly as possible... how I allowed such an egregious and counterproductive error is truly beyond me.

I also must laugh at my own foolishness. Without intending to do so, in the Council thread I broke the unwritten (or possibly written, even) rule to not double post. In hindsight, I did not just double or triple post... I quintuple posted. Good gravy! No wonder some of you grow weary of hearing from me... perhaps a vow of silence is in order?

edit: bows towards Deguerra, Zim, and Banzai Kamikaze (below) for their kindness.

[deguerra]

I for one would miss both your and your characters rants, so please do continue posting. Your apology is kind, and I hope those whom it concerned accept it, but I for one know that hotseats are most fun when they are...energetic and I commend you for making this one so

[Banzai Kamikaze]

I agree. I don't mind if you post often personally. Your posts are interesting :) .

[phonicsmonkey]

hi all

I thought I should pipe up here to say that it was my request to ATPG to ensure that he keeps IC and OOC separated in future.

I had been a little worried by the tone of some of his OOC posts and by the reactions of some players to him, that we had potential for a misunderstanding that could damage the game (my precious!).

I didn't request that ATPG make a public apology, nor do I think it necessary that he did so - but given than he has, I thank him for that.

But I would request that now we should all just move on from this and refrain from posting further on the topic...

If anyone would like to discuss you can PM me.

Let's play ball!

Monkey

[deguerra]

(carefully avoiding the last sentence about continuous posting. this will be my last utterance on the topic, by the beard of the prophet)

no worries, phonicmonkey.

i meant no ill-feeling towards anyone who felt offended, nor towards you for making ammends. keeping IC and OOC seperate is a must, and you were right to make it known.

i just wanted to reassure ATPG, because i also respected his apology and his ability to correct his mistake. i nearly saw one hotseat destroyed by something similar, and just wanted to thank him for his (and once again, everyone elses involved) good spirit in keeping this one strong.

now no more from me, and get the damn turn done already :whip:

[Zim]

Ghorids are up.

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/BC-04-08.zip

I would like to express my admiration for both phonicsmonkey and ATPG. The hotseat deguerra is talking about is one of mine, where both I as the GM and a player I had heard concerns about did much worse in trying to resolve the issue. :shame:

[_Tristan_]

How I wish OOC considerations were kept out of the game also...

[Ferret]

Hindu blokes:http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/BC-04-09.rar

[Ramses II CP]

Ayyubids:

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/BC-04-10a.zip

For the Ghazni; my diplomat is just north of Kabul if you'd like to contact him. Otherwise I think he'll be buzzing past one of your cities soon. For the Ghorids, offered map exchange again, just to keep our borders clarified.

:egypt:

[Zim]

NIce to know. My diplomat is heading towards Kwarezhm and then to Baghdad, but Ghazni is just south of Kabul if I recall correctly. We can exchange trade rights there meet at Baghdad. :yes:


Ayyubids:

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/BC-04-10a.zip

For the Ghazni; my diplomat is just north of Kabul if you'd like to contact him. Otherwise I think he'll be buzzing past one of your cities soon. For the Ghorids, offered map exchange again, just to keep our borders clarified.

:egypt:

[Banzai Kamikaze]

Shah's turn:

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/BC-04-11.zip

[00jebus]

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/BC-04-12.rar


ATPG's rum

[Zim]

Regarding a post from the Council thread:

Istanbul, ATPG? I didn't say anything about the mention of the Mongols when they haven't even unified yet but isn't this jumping the gun?Wouldn't it be better to conquer Constantinople before making any plans for a memorial to the Shah in the city? :clown:

Maybe there's some other Istanbul that's in Anatolia?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Regarding a post from the Council thread:

Istanbul, ATPG? I didn't say anything about the mention of the Mongols when they haven't even unified yet but isn't this jumping the gun?Wouldn't it be better to conquer Constantinople before making any plans for a memorial to the Shah in the city? :clown:


You know what? That is a mighty fine suggestion, there Zim.

Perhaps I should take your advice and do exactly as you suggest...

:knight:

The Sultan of Rum has already drawn his sword. You should find a gift basket arriving for the Khwarezmid Shah very shortly, as I have some freshly butchered meat for the royal family to roast on a roaring fire.


EDIT: OOC- Of course I know that Constantinople/Istanbul hasn't been conquered yet. Rest assured, when it is, big lovely images of the death and destruction will be splattered across this page like pornography

[Zim]

I always wanted to take Constaninople as the Turks in vanilla and rename it but somehow I never got around to it...


You know what? That is a mighty fine suggestion, there Zim.

Perhaps I should take your advice and do exactly as you suggest...

:knight:

[Askthepizzaguy]

A shame, Zim... that is quite all right though. Now the Roman cowers in fear as we prepare to do exactly that. But he won't be saying too much for the time being.

[Askthepizzaguy]

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/BC-04-13.zip

The honourable Imam of Oman is up, deguerra!

[The Lemongate]

A shame, Zim... that is quite all right though. Now the Roman cowers in fear as we prepare to do exactly that. But he won't be saying too much for the time being.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight...

[phonicsmonkey]

hey ATPG, did you pm deguerra to let him know it's his turn?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Indeed i forgot. The message has been sent.

Apologies for the delay, everyone.

[phonicsmonkey]

no worries pizzaturk, just remember next time

everyone, please remember to PM the next in line so we can keep this game rolling!

:smash:

[deguerra]

made no difference. saw it this morning, but will not be able to play until tonight, as i am at uni atm. couple of hours...

[phonicsmonkey]

no worries deguerra, just wanted to make sure you had seen it

you at melbourne, monash, latrobe or rmit?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Part of the problem is that I am addicted to this forum. You can see me online here at midnight, 6am, noon, and 6pm, depending on the day. What is sleep, anyway? I only work full time and go to college full time. Given the amount of hours spent in the forum here, I'm starting to wonder when my paychecks should start arriving, or when I get my Org diploma. I didn't consciously think of it, but some of you out there have uh... what do you call... that... thing where you... do stuff... lives and don't visit as often as I do. Therefore when I make a post, you aren't always at your desk to shake your head and wonder... just what in the heck is that guy thinking?

:gah:

When someone makes a post here in the thread, I am aware of it before they even hit the send button. I have ESPN about this sort of thing. It honestly never occurred to me that sometimes other people don't have their eyeballs glued to the screen and they need email reminders to play their turn. It's almost like we're living on opposite sides of the globe. But we all know that's not the case. Such a thing would be ridiculous. Wouldn't the people on the bottom fall off? How would the water stay in their toilets? I mean, just taking a leak would be dangerous because your nostrils point downward.

:7teacher:

I've... just been informed that the gravitational force is omnidirectional. Who knew? Anywho. At least my side of the globe faces in the correct, upright direction.

:7teacher:

I've... just been told that there is no such thing as upright when it comes to celestial bodies in motion, as all points of view are relative and there is no correct frame of reference. Next you're going to be telling me that invisible demons go around gobbling up stars...

:7teacher:

No kidding? Wow. What about the Earth being 6000 years old?

:7teacher:

What??? Well that changes things a bit. And PBM hotseat etiquette???

:7teacher:

Oh. Ok, got it now. "Please remember to private message the next guy in line." (Geez, what else does this guy know?)

What's the answer to life, the universe, and everything?

:7teacher:

Interesting. Let me check your math with a calculator... yes, two is the correct answer.

Astonishing!

That bit about living together in mutual prosperity and tolerance with your fellow man, and coexisting with people of all creeds and nations was smashing as well. But I still don't understand why men and women can't relate to one another.

:7teacher:

Really? From Mars? How dubious! Where's the antenna?

:7teacher:

OH... so THAT'S what that thing is! :idea:

[phonicsmonkey]

:laugh4:

[Askthepizzaguy]

In the words of Sir Galahad, The Chaste:

"What a strange person!"

Indeed, I am. That was an absurdly long penis joke.

Wait a second... maybe I should rephrase that.

:focus:

[deguerra]

no worries deguerra, just wanted to make sure you had seen it

you at melbourne, monash, latrobe or rmit?

melbourne. second year of law/commerce. how about you?

am on it now

[deguerra]

Next turn:

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/BC-05-01.rar


What's the answer to life, the universe, and everything?

clearly its 42, not 2 :D

[00jebus]

and whats the ultimate question then? :P

nice ATPG

[Zim]

I've been wondering if ATPG made that reference intentionally... :clown:


Next turn:

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/BC-05-01.rar



clearly its 42, not 2 :D

[deguerra]

surely he must have

[Zim]

Probably. It's been too long since I've read those books, time to take them off of the shelf again.


surely he must have

[rossahh]

commerce/economics deguerra? Boring!

4th year primary school teaching, melbourne

and phonicmonkey, you forget vic uni, acu, deakin, swinburne and nmit in that list

[deguerra]

well he mentioned the only imprtant one :laugh4:

law/commerce with a focus on management in the latter. i actually though of doing something education related for a while, but this is what i ended up with and so far i havent regretted it

[phonicsmonkey]

and phonicmonkey, you forget vic uni, acu, deakin, swinburne and nmit in that list

and you forgot my 's'

sorry rossahh, not a native y'see, still finding my way around...

deguerra, it's been many years since I last attended a school of higher education but I once studied philosophy at university college london

my wife is currently studying for a Doctor of Clinical Psychology at LaTrobe...and my brother in law did commerce at melbourne...

[Askthepizzaguy]

As for myself, thanks be to you all for asking, as yes I am in college to become a teacher of high school history or a college ethics professor. I will probably end up doing both in my career, when I tire of the one.

As for money: well, I suppose eating cans of beefaroni every day for the rest of my life isn't so bad. Especially since I won't be able to afford health insurance. With any luck, I will die at age 52 and my sons and daughters will be able to graduate from college because my life insurance will pay off.

I think the United States spends more money than any other nation in terms of thier federal budget, and yet we can't get universal health care or decent wages for our teachers. But that's ok, because surely the rest of the world views us with great admiration for coming to the aid of the Iraqi people a decade too late, and toppling a dictator whose only remaining weapons of mass destruction were his bold lies, and so therefore surely they will assist us.

:7teacher:

I've... just been informed that we've lost the respect of the international community. Huh. Isn't that a kick in the frontal part of the lower mid-groin area of the pants.

I'm starting to think the only thing that will save us is our booming economy...

:7teacher:

Ok, Will you shut up with the chalkboard gag already???
Anyhoo. Politics and financial concerns aside, I still greatly wish to be a teacher and I've spent $15,000 of my own hard earned minimum wage savings just to attend college for one year out of 6, and I am now broke.

Anyone care to send some "florins" my way to pay for college?
:laugh2:

_________________
:focus:

[phonicsmonkey]

sorry mate, you'll have to wait 'til I'm finished putting mrs monkey through college

[00jebus]

and no matter that I found that hilarious... Im £20,000 in debt already.... gods damn blair... so I can't lend a hand either

course you ask?
psychology/sociology at QMU, Edinburgh

I had no idea what to pick... so Im doing what was my 2 favorite A levels... :)

[TheFlax]

Wow! I guess I'm pretty lucky then that my education costs only about 1500$per semester... :shame:

I'm studying for a degree in History (almost done) and a minor in International Relations.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Here in the United States, education is more of a business than a public service. Given my college's rule that only NEW textbooks may be purchased, they add to their profits by raking in textbook money.

With their cramped dorms, they manage to squeeze more money. What loans and scholarships governments and private charities offer get sucked in greedily.

Meanwhile, I'm a straight A student and I can't even get approved for a Pell Grant, let alone a scholarship, because I only recently turned 24, an arbitrary cut off date for when parent's income is not to be considered.

(which is funny because my dad lost his job on 9/11 and shortly thereafter, lost the house in a depressed market, ending up owing the IRS thousands of dollars, and declared bankruptcy, and still has to repay old debts. Thanks be to our government for once again helping us in times of crisis. Think they would at least help someone get a student loan, but nooo.....)
27 minute rant about my disapproval towards the government edited for your convenience... and I return to the topic.

It should be noted that we are all a bit off topic here, but unless Phonicsmonkey objects to the kibitzing, I don't see the harm.

[00jebus]

well, put it this way, with the current trend towards capitalizing on public services (at least in the UK and the USA)... and the complete waste of taxpayers (including myself!) money on worthless projects.... we might declare a jihad on them!
therefore... not off topic!
(athiest jihad? go figure...)

especally since alot of the money that could go to worthwhile projects like education, health etc... gets diverted to the wasteful (pointless?) war on "terror"... and of course iraq (and soon to be iran)
who says were off topic!

were just debating another hotseat game that will probably be called Broken Crescent, 100 years before anyone bothers to start it!




Anyway, back to our game.... whose winning in Anatolia?, anyone else joined the war?

[Askthepizzaguy]

The Current state of Anatolia:

The Turks are at war with Rome. (Turks declared war)
Allied (informal) with Armenia. Accepting financial aid and assistance from 5 nation states (so far) who have thus far requested anonymity. The war goes well, and our allies will be repaid for their contributions handsomely. Incidentally, we are accepting further loans, as the next round of recruitment requires a bit more cash.

The Armenians are at war with Jerusalem and Rome. (Rome and Jerusalem acted against Armenia WITHOUT declaring war)
Protectorate status (informal) of the Rum Turks, as their homelands are nearly destroyed and their royal family needs aid and sanctuary. Accepting alliance, aid, military access, territorial acquisitions, military support, and diplomatic intervention from the Rum Turks.

Jerusalem is at war with Armenia (without declaring war)
Current status unknown at this time. Engaging in talks.
Alliances unknown at this time.

Rome is at war with Armenia (without declaring war) and the Turks (by extension)
Their betrayal of the Christians was most unprofitable and unfortunate for them, as Armenia smashed their invasion force, and my vast armies currently on the offensive within their own territory. Currently examining the Sultan's proposal of peace, and deciding whether or not they truly will benefit from their fruitless venture into Armenian lands.
Alliances unknown at this time.

IC: Perhaps they should have sought peace, and not attacked a neutral state without first declaring their intentions before the council. They will accept our terms of peace next turn, or be destroyed.

Informal alliances or protectorate statuses are honoured by the players themselves, as their diplomats have not yet officially signed the treaty.

[Ferret]

well I could go into a deep political argument with you now jebus but, lucky for you, I have to go :clown:

[Zim]

Suddenly I feel lucky. I borrowed an extra $7,000 so I could live in South America while I did a State Department Internship one semester, and I still only ened up with about $20,000 overall debt which, if I understand the exchange rate correctly, would be about half the same number of £s.


and no matter that I found that hilarious... Im £20,000 in debt already.... gods damn blair... so I can't lend a hand either

course you ask?
psychology/sociology at QMU, Edinburgh

I had no idea what to pick... so Im doing what was my 2 favorite A levels... :)

[00jebus]

EF, political beliefs can't be changed by message boards, so we could skip the argument forever, and save everyone else the eventual name-calling

ATPG, looks to me like your in a simmilar situation to pre-WWI Germany, good luck with your version of the Schliefan plan
on a totally unrelated topic my money's on Romano-Jerusalem alliance eventually winning...:P

[Askthepizzaguy]

And just how much would you like to wager?

I think I will pm you a screenshot of Rome's unfortunate circumstances.

[00jebus]

"lunch in constantinople, dinner in antioch" huh?

hmmm....doesn't feel right offering a lose-lose bet, so nothing:clown:

[Askthepizzaguy]

Please understand that I am only defending my honor as a soldier here, not actually predicting the outcome. I can say this much: Rome will pay for their treachery. And I'm not talking about several seasons from now, either.

I won't speculate on Jerusalem at the moment, as there may be an armistice.

[rossahh]

Prince Bohemund would love the company in Antioch.

[barcamartin]

Next turn:

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/BC-05-01.rar


Just thought I'd give it a bump. It got a bit lost in all the extremely on-topic science/philosophy talk... :clown:

[Askthepizzaguy]

Prince Bohemund would love the company in Antioch.

Reply transferred to the diplomacy thread. Just waiting to see what The Lemongate will do on his turn, as his faction is up.

[rossahh]

My guess is that he has a lot to think about.


And sorry for mispelling your name fon-iks-mun-kii

[Askthepizzaguy]

Edit: nevermind... my protests were squelched by moderators. Apparently spam is only ok if it's moderator-approved. :laugh4: And so therefore, back to topic.

I will be restoring my signature line to normal now, but here is how it appeared briefly below:
___________________
JOIN SOME NEW MAFIA GAME (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=1863356#post1863356) SO I DONT HAVE TO READ ALL THIS SPAM IN THE SIGNATURE LINES!
:nospam: :nospam: :nospam: :nospam: :nospam:
Pretty distracting isn't it? Well remove that junk from your sigs and I will do the same! :viking: In the meantime, check out my current sig update: "Getting fit with SwordsMaster"

[phonicsmonkey]

I am going to be away from later today until Monday morning (Oz time).

Zim will sub for me and the seljuks if our turns come up.

I have pm'd Lemongate to remind him it's his turn and the 48 hours is approaching.

[Zim]

I'm happy to help, but perhaps the Seljuks would prefer a sub who didn't recently declare war one them. :laugh4:

If Lemongate doesn't reply can a sub be designated for him? Maybe his friend the Georgian player? With his being in the middle of a war it would be too bad if the turn was skipped. :sweatdrop:


I am going to be away from later today until Monday morning (Oz time).

Zim will sub for me and the seljuks if our turns come up.

I have pm'd Lemongate to remind him it's his turn and the 48 hours is approaching.

[Ramses II CP]

The Seljuks and the Romans are both very distant from my lands, so I'd be fine with subbing for either one. ATPG might have to lodge a protest though, I promise I as a sub wouldn't go easy on his invaders no matter what my Hindu nation's pledges of support. :laugh4:

Then again, I made a promise to myself not to exploit the really pathetic siege and sally AI for this hotseat, so I doubt he'd be too surprised. :2thumbsup:

:egypt:

[phonicsmonkey]

don't worry about the seljuks, I'll be back in time to sub that turn anyway, even if I miss my own

I'm more concerned about the ERE

the 48 hour deadline is in 7 hours and I haven't heard from The Lemongate

TheFlax, Banzai Kamikaze do you know where he might be?

TheFlax, are you willing to sub the turn if he misses the deadline, to keep the game moving?

If I don't hear from The Lemongate or TheFlax by the time I leave I'll pm the ERE password to Zim who can pass it on to The Flax if he is subbing, otherwise Ramses will do it (thanks buddy)

This is all as per the rules in the first post, so there is no cause for anyone to protest.

[rossahh]

The only problem is this a pivotal turn. Screw up the the delpoyments and the ERE takes its first step towards defeat.

[phonicsmonkey]

I know - which is why he should have made sure he either was here to play it, or got in touch with me to let me know why he couldn't

don't mean to be harsh, but the show must go on - I'd be more than happy to grant an extension if he had asked me for one

TheFlax is his friend, and Ramses is more than capable, so either should be able to do a good job for him

[Askthepizzaguy]

EDIT: Suggestion withdrawn

[phonicsmonkey]

Please wait.

He has another five hours.

If he misses the deadline and TheFlax is willing, he will play it

Otherwise Ramses will play the turn.

Zim will contact the person in question at the time, or shortly afterward

[Askthepizzaguy]

Edit: Suggestion withdrawn