View Full Version : Casual december game
Pages :
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
[
12]
like if i am wrong about amy, it would mean the wolves are within kage/monty/csargo
i think it is the incorrect play to vote for monty today
i wont be able to be here for eod but if my wagon start growing around the last hour, it means that a scum has been voted and they are trying to pull the wagon away
if the wagons are stagnant, i think that means amy is town? However if she is wolf, wolves have one less vote to play with due to her being away.
hollowkatt
12-18-2022, 22:13
like if i am wrong about amy, it would mean the wolves are within kage/monty/csargo
i think it is the incorrect play to vote for monty today
i wont be able to be here for eod but if my wagon start growing around the last hour, it means that a scum has been voted and they are trying to pull the wagon away
if the wagons are stagnant, i think that means amy is town? However if she is wolf, wolves have one less vote to play with due to her being away.
basically yeah. I also don't think monty is the solve, I'm reading csargo currently.
basically yeah. I also don't think monty is the solve, I'm reading csargo currently.
what kinda alarms me is that csargo has basically not said anything to me nor has he really talked about me. Idk if thats a wolf thing or town thing, but it is weird considering i strongly town cleared him yesterday
hollowkatt
12-18-2022, 22:17
Csargo (2): Amy, Kage
Taffy (4): Monty, Csargo, Boq, Renata
Renata (2): Taffy, Ender
Unvoted: HK
I made a votecount for today because I don't know what the votes are and we got 30m
Whether as ultimate potato townies or ultimate slanker Mafia, kage-Amp will probably doom us at the rate we're going.
hmmm
ok, taffy town renata town
renata and taffy dead so remove them from the wagons
taffy: monty, csargo, boq
renata: ender
amy kage on csargo
current votes:
Csargo (2): Amy, Kage
Taffy (4): Monty, Csargo, Boq, Renata
Renata (2): Taffy, Ender
Unvoted: HK
I made a votecount for today because I don't know what the votes are and we got 30m
Whether as ultimate potato townies or ultimate slanker Mafia, kage-Amp will probably doom us at the rate we're going.
Amy (2): Monty, Boquise
Kagemusha (1): Csargo
Boquise (1): Ender
Csargo (1): Kagemusha
Csargo (2): Amy, Kage
Taffy (4): Monty, Csargo, Boq, Renata
Renata (2): Taffy, Ender
Unvoted: HK
I made a votecount for today because I don't know what the votes are and we got 30m
Whether as ultimate potato townies or ultimate slanker Mafia, kage-Amp will probably doom us at the rate we're going.
Taffy (5): Monty, Csargo, Boquise, Renata, Taffy
Csargo (3): Amy, Kagemusha, Ender
Renata (1): Taffy
Kagemusha (1): HK
Day 4 has ended at 7PM est.
vote: csargo
your voting record is atrocious and I can't justify it
Taffy (5): Monty, Csargo, Boquise, Renata, Taffy
Csargo (3): Amy, Kagemusha, Ender
Renata (1): Taffy
Kagemusha (1): HK
Day 4 has ended at 7PM est.
csargo took it really cool for being top wagon next to Taffy
I wish Taffy had not self-voted.
Kage is still voting Csargo and it seems to be his only wolf read this game.
Amy voting Csargo too hm
vote csargo
lets see if stuff happens
Vote Amy
Ultimately, I think it is easier to solve Csargo than Amy and Kage
hollowkatt
Looking at yesterday. Little has changed, but Taffy was killed whom i had in the town side of things.I am ready to put Monty into the town based on the effort he made yesterday, which seems legit, while his conclusions were wrong.
Town
Ender, HK
townish
Boque, Monty
neutral
Amy
scummish
Csargo
My vote is the same as yesterday. Csargo is flying under the radar. Leaving reasoning for his votes to other people, like Monty yesterday. You should look at him closer and draw the right conclusions. Vote: Csargo
what do you mean like monty yesterday Kagemusha
as i skim back and stuff i realised another reason why monty should be town - he tried to remedy things between renata and me by showing her how i did have a clear progression with dyachei
and like, why try make two townies stop fighting if you are scum?
hollowkatt i am willing to vote either amy or kage. If I have been wrong on Csargo and he is a wolf, 1 of those should be a wolf too. If I have been correct on Csargo being town, 1 of those should be a wolf still.
Shit.
Yesterday's ouster carries no alignment information, for obvious gamestate reasons, though it hurts Csargo a single pip if Taffy is town.
If I had to clear Csargo atm the sole available factor would be the D1 secondary wagon (Ender) containing ladd, dya, Csargo, Monty, Logic; <10% chance of 3/4 maf piling onto a secondary wagon among t/t wagons on D1. From meta, Csargo specifically I feel would be self-conscious enough not to wagon in that manner. This is enough to give Csargo a pass for a couple days.
I've tried skimming through D1 and it seems I previously misunderstood dya's relationship with Amp. I can't clear her. But we'll see what comes of it when I make a more thorough examination.
One other point in her favor would be the D2 tally. There should at the very minimum be one scum on Visor - I refuse to believe there isn't - but even two is likely
One thing I dislike about Taffy's D3 is her gesturing at teams like dya-Ender-Kage (even if she reassessed Ender under opposition), when ofc a POE like that would guarantee Mafia victory. Not having to NK Ender, and if Kage town, well, that's almost a necessary ML for Mafia. But Rule of Three in ladd's defenses works in her favor, for whatever that's worth.
Vote: Taffy should be part of today's agenda. If you want Kage or Amy you're going to need an affirmative case, a slam-dunk interaction or slip.
Possible teams (excluding Renata, Csargo):
Kage-Amp
Kage-Csargo
Kage-Taffy
Kage-Boq
Kage-HK
Kage-Renata
Renata-Amp
Renata-HK
Renata-Taffy
Renata-Csargo
Renata-Boq
Boq-Amp
Boq-Csargo
Boq-Taffy
Boq-HK
HK-Csargo
HK-Taffy
HK-Amp
Amp-Taffy
Amp-Csargo
Csargo-Taffy
Montmorency
why is it that Taffy town hurts Csargo and is this something you still think?
Kagemusha
12-18-2022, 22:42
what do you mean like monty yesterday @Kagemusha (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=11472)
Boquise Sorry, English is not my native language, so sometimes my sentences can be quite confusing. What i mean is that yesterday Csargo was using Monty?s reasoning for his voting. Hiding behind it. Earlier he was using Visor?s reasoning, which enabled him to fly under the radar, since the decision making process is not his own. You can find my reasoning from post #2508 where im placing you at that scale based on your voting behaviour concerning Dya?s lynch.
Very unnecessary. At the same time,
Boquise, Monty, Csargo, Taffy, Kage, Hollowkatt, Ender
I have, or have had at some point in the game, fairly confident town reads on everybody here except for Kage. Somebody is scum despite posting well. I'd rather not have to believe it's two.
hmmm
Boquise Sorry, English is not my native language, so sometimes my sentences can be quite confusing. What i mean is that yesterday Csargo was using Monty?s reasoning for his voting. Hiding behind it. Earlier he was using Visor?s reasoning, which enabled him to fly under the radar, since the decision making process is not his own. You can find my reasoning from post #2508 where im placing you at that scale based on your voting behaviour concerning Dya?s lynch.
mmmh alright, thanks tbh
have you been reading anything Kage?
reskimming monty iso mega quick i could also see him being a wolf
kinda weird him/kage have got so little heat considering they'd be the 2 easiest target (no offense)
i liked a couple of minor points from monty but really nothing i care to hang onto when there is so many villagery people
this is ladd popping in to shade two unflipped players randomly
the wagons are ender vs visor
and like my usual way to read this is that it is unlikely to write about teammates like this when the wagons are like how they are, kinda unnecessary, but it also doesnt really cost anything as we can see by how the thread does not move to kage/monty - so it is free distancing.
EOD1, final tally:
Logic (7): Amy, Ender, Vulgard, Taffy ,Visor, Renata, Cape
Ender (5): Ladd, Csargo, dyachei, Logic , monty
Ampharos (2): Boquise, ATPG
Luv2spooge (1): HK
Renata (1): Kagemusha
Ladd (1): luv2spooge
Logic has been chopped! He was vanilla town!
Start of day 2 in roughly 24 hours. (7 PM EST)
do i really wanna believe that the whole logic wagon was pure lol
EOD1, final tally:
Logic (7): Amy, Ender, Vulgard, Taffy ,Visor, Renata, Cape
Ender (5): Ladd, Csargo, dyachei, Logic , monty
Ampharos (2): Boquise, ATPG
Luv2spooge (1): HK
Renata (1): Kagemusha
Ladd (1): luv2spooge
Logic has been chopped! He was vanilla town!
Start of day 2 in roughly 24 hours. (7 PM EST)
EOD2, Visor has been yeeted under the sun! He flips vanilla town
Visor (6): Ender, Taffy, Renata, Csargo, HK, Boq
Ender (4): Ladd, Vulgard, Monty, Visor
HK (3): Kagemusha, dya, Cape
Vulgard (1): Amy
SOD3 in 24 hours (7 PM EST)
orders one hour before deadline yadayadayada
https://media.tenor.com/oDZGB3unEuwAAAAC/eurythmics-sweet-dreams-are-made-of-this.gif
have i been misreading one of my clears this whole time
even if amy is a wolf, it would mean that the whole visor wagon is pure
like
it isnt out of the realms of possibilities that either of the eod wagons are pure - i have seen it happen, but still
I am going to keep my vote on Amy tbh.
i have some updated thoughts but will wait to talk about them until tomorrow
kinda miffed that kage appeared to answer a question and then just dipped again. Makes me feel like theres some lurking going on
but why even bother answering me if scum when he has been afk the whole day either way
or maybe it is better for the game state that i spill the beans sooner rather than later
but i dont want scum to be able to plan and prepare smh
or maybe it is better for the game state that i spill the beans sooner rather than later
but i dont want scum to be able to plan and prepare smh
actually yeah i dont want them to fix their nk plans in case amy is a miss
actually yeah i dont want them to fix their nk plans in case amy is a miss
like if everyone else was here live then it would be pro town to talk about it and stuff, maybe make some waves, but here i sit
maybe scum will paranoid kill me now when i have hinted at uncovering a secret
it is like the movies when one unlikely character figures out the whole mystery but right before they are to reveal it all for the rest of the cast they get
hollowkatt
12-18-2022, 23:31
Csargo (2): Amy, Kage
Taffy (4): Monty, Csargo, Boq, Renata
Renata (2): Taffy, Ender
Unvoted: HK
I made a votecount for today because I don't know what the votes are and we got 30m
Whether as ultimate potato townies or ultimate slanker Mafia, kage-Amp will probably doom us at the rate we're going.
as i skim back and stuff i realised another reason why monty should be town - he tried to remedy things between renata and me by showing her how i did have a clear progression with dyachei
and like, why try make two townies stop fighting if you are scum?
you don't, really. Unless you think that by fighting they'll find each other townie.
hollowkatt
12-18-2022, 23:33
hollowkatt i am willing to vote either amy or kage. If I have been wrong on Csargo and he is a wolf, 1 of those should be a wolf too. If I have been correct on Csargo being town, 1 of those should be a wolf still.
tbh my won't vote list is ender, monty, and you
everyone else is fair game at this point. If we're in a 2 wolves alive world then yes, csargo, amy, kage contains two. If we're in a one wolf world that's a little trickier but I'm assuming we're in a 2 wolf world because 3 wolves doesn't make sense and we haven't seen power from their team enough to justify.
hollowkatt
12-18-2022, 23:34
this is ladd popping in to shade two unflipped players randomly
the wagons are ender vs visor
and like my usual way to read this is that it is unlikely to write about teammates like this when the wagons are like how they are, kinda unnecessary, but it also doesnt really cost anything as we can see by how the thread does not move to kage/monty - so it is free distancing.
I think my biggest fear is we're trying to chase down basically LHF so either we're right or there's a wolf in the town bucket and I don't want there to be a wolf in the town bucket.
EnderWiggin
12-19-2022, 00:01
Awake for EOD. I dunno how coherent I'm gonna be because I'm tired/sick but I'll give it a fair shake.
EnderWiggin
12-19-2022, 00:31
Vote: Kage
The fact that both Csargo and Kage were okay with POEing the other two lhf makes me feel like there's 100% not 2 in there.
hollowkatt
12-19-2022, 00:57
i'm just gonna sheep ender
vote: kage
Raskolnikov
12-19-2022, 00:58
Kagemusha (3): Csargo, ENder, HK
Amy (2): Monty, , Boquise
Csargo (1): Kagemusha
EOD in 3 minutes
Raskolnikov
12-19-2022, 01:01
D5 is over.
Kagemusha
12-19-2022, 01:03
Vote Amy
Raskolnikov
12-19-2022, 01:05
Kagemusha has been chopped! He flips mafia goon!
SOD6 in 24 hours.
Raskolnikov
12-20-2022, 01:00
Amy (Mixolydia) has been killed! They were vanilla town.
Day ends in 48 hours at 7pm EST on the 21th.
Csargo hollowkatt Montmorency Mixolydia (Amy) EnderWiggin Boquise
You may now post and enjoy!
EnderWiggin
12-20-2022, 01:04
What the fuck.
EnderWiggin
12-20-2022, 01:05
I mean Amy was spewed town from Kage's failed vote but
Still.
I feel like there were bigger fish that became clear from this.
Why am I still alive, I'm sick and I just wanna die.
Do I have to kill all the mafia for this.
EnderWiggin
12-20-2022, 01:17
Csargo/Visor maybe clear from that claim.
I'm going to hold onto a "Wolves claiming Mason" but I don't think either were up for votes enough for them to do that there. So clearing them.
Pizza probably clear from the wifom play he's doing. I'm willing to entertain it until he claims midday in about 21.5ish hours.
Renata/Taffy/Amy/Cape are the people I think have towntold in a significant manner. Amy possibly pocketed me but I'm reviewing.
Vulgard is the person I wanna townread but for respect for Luvs I'm going to drop my pre-read and reconsider them.
Kage/Ladd/Dyachei are the grouping I don't really have a read on properly rn.
HK/Monty/Boq are the three names I really want to dig into today because I think a wolf exists in that.
This list is pendingpossiblechanges depending on how I read through things when I have time.
LMAO me.
hollowkatt
12-20-2022, 01:19
I mean Amy was spewed town from Kage's failed vote but
Still.
I feel like there were bigger fish that became clear from this.
Why am I still alive, I'm sick and I just wanna die.
Do I have to kill all the mafia for this.
killing all the mafia is generally how we win yes
EnderWiggin
12-20-2022, 01:22
Here is what i think after day 1:
Most town
ATGP
Totally Not Taffy
Enderwiggin
town leaning
ladd
neutral
Renata
Visor
Ampharos
Boquise
scum leaning
Csargo
scummy
Monty
dyachei
Vulgard
cape90
Hollowkatt
How i have come to this prediction. I have given points for being leader and building cases, creating pressure. People who are taking leadership from the start can get a pass at being scum for now as if they lead town to failures they are going to get the chop.
Because this was day 1 i have given neutrality points for shitposting and shitvoting. Shooting in the dark day one is completely acceptable and trying to get any reaction from other people is information for the town in the future. From day 2 onward shitvoting and posting should not be looked upon so kindly anymore.
I have given negative points for making non cases, lazy cases and giving follow votes without reasoning. Flip flopping without reasoning.These are the positions most easy for scum to hide and should be frowned upon. Under this i have posts i think are most telling about how i see things as of now:
Town
Totally not Taffy (#142 Push towards Ender to get the case out, pressure, no effect.)
EnderWiggin (#138 push towards Monty for reaction)
ATGP (#204 vote: Ampharos, pressure)
ATGP (#327 case Amphoros)
EnderWiggin (#398 case against Logic)
ladd (#422 case against Logic)
Totally not Taffy (#513 vote Hollowkatt reason disappearing, pressure.
Renata (#812 vote Ampharos, pressure)
ATGP (#862 returns to his vote on Ampharos, consistent)
Neutral
Visor (103# shitvote towards Pizza)
Monty (131# shitvote towards Visor)
Ampharos (#154 shitvote against Logic? No case.)
ATGP (#213 Vote Ender/Bladescape shit vote)
Kagemusha (#226 shitvote towards Csargo)
Csargo (#300 shitvote ATGP)
Kagemusha (#303 shitvote Renata)
Boquise (#449 shitvote Kagemusha)
Visor (#706 shitvote Boquise)
Boquise (#716 shitvote Ampharos)
luvs2spooge (#740 shitvote Vulgard)
Csargo (#744 shitvote Ender)
Visor (#788 shitvote Ampharos)
Totally not Taffy #842 ( 4th follow on Logic, three way tie, pressure.+-0)
Scummy
Hollowkatt (136# "case against Pizza" 4 quotes, nothing from his own mind, easy activity?)
EnderWiggin (#165 1st follow vote on logic."For? Reasons.")
Vulgard (#231 2nd follow vote on logic. No case just vote.)
ladd (#364 3rd follow vote on logic. "seems like an obvious wolf")
visor (#428 4th follow on the Logic vote "fwiw")
Csargo (#530 2nd vote Hollowkatt "I can get behind this" )
Hollowkatt ( #531 vote luv2spooge "also luv2 is a wolf.")
Logic (#536 Vote:Visor "After I flip villager, nuke visor.")
ATGP (#658 unvote personal reasons)
Csargo (#681 2nd follow Kagemusha)
dyachei (#751 second follow Ender)
Renata (#763 5th follow logic)
Logic (#768 third follow Ender)
Monty (#838 1st follow Ampharos)
cape90 (#846 4th follow Ender)
Visor (#853 5th follow Logic)
Renata (#854 6th follow Logic)
Monty (#860 5th follow Ender)
cape90 (#864 7th follow on Logic)
Just making note of this for thinking.
EnderWiggin
12-20-2022, 01:26
killing all the mafia is generally how we win yes
I was hoping to just let you all sort out final mafia but anyway.
What's your reads for this day?
EnderWiggin
12-20-2022, 01:40
reskimming monty iso mega quick i could also see him being a wolf
kinda weird him/kage have got so little heat considering they'd be the 2 easiest target (no offense)
i liked a couple of minor points from monty but really nothing i care to hang onto when there is so many villagery people
Ladd posting this about 2 wolves unprompted is a bit much imo.
hollowkatt
12-20-2022, 01:49
LMAO me.
it's a good post
hollowkatt
12-20-2022, 01:52
I was hoping to just let you all sort out final mafia but anyway.
What's your reads for this day?
I'm not considering whether or not you're a wolf if that's what you're trying to ask in a round about way.
I'm still surprised Monty is alive after the heavy lifting he did on D2 and 3. Csargo probably needs some amount of revisiting but wasn't Kage pushing for that re-evaulation yesterday? Might, if true, be spewed town in which case me, you, csargo are town leaving the last one to be within monty/boq.
hollowkatt
12-20-2022, 01:53
I was hoping to just let you all sort out final mafia but anyway.
What's your reads for this day?
I think we were all hopeful to let someone else sort it out today.
hollowkatt
12-20-2022, 01:53
Ladd posting this about 2 wolves unprompted is a bit much imo.
there's been a bit of a bit much tho
Montmorency
12-20-2022, 01:55
First, thanks for carrying yday.
Mafia being real pricks with the kills lately. Why would you ever even kill Amy, she?s perfect lurkbait for storming LYLO with.
No one here seems to believe it?s Boq, whose case I?ve laid out. Certainly though I can?t see him killing Amy solo when clearing her looks so bad for him. But who would really? Not even a wacky deep-sea m-Ender should see advantage to it.
Csargo has had few good posts, and that terrible, terrible case on Renata, while Boq has made a mid-game effort to post well, second after me. However, he has so many hateful associatives with ladd and dya, Patric. How they were all bouncing off each other on Amy and Vulgard, whereas Csargo's few associatives lean heavily anti-pair rather than pair. Either of them could easily be partners with Csargo. If it?s Csargo, he and Kage spent the past two days engaged in Level 1 distancing.
I will have more opportunity tomorrow.
EnderWiggin
12-20-2022, 02:04
HK (4): Kagemusha, dya, Renata, Boq
Ender (3), Ladd, Vulgard, Visor
Visor (2): Ender, Taffy
Kagemusha (1): Cape
Vulgard (1): Amy
Boq (1): HK
Tx for the back up pals. (saw it but redacted)
HK kiiiiinda town for this imo.
EnderWiggin
12-20-2022, 02:05
Vote: Boquise
Reasons.
hollowkatt
12-20-2022, 02:20
First, thanks for carrying yday.
Mafia being real pricks with the kills lately. Why would you ever even kill Amy, she?s perfect lurkbait for storming LYLO with.
No one here seems to believe it?s Boq, whose case I?ve laid out. Certainly though I can?t see him killing Amy solo when clearing her looks so bad for him. But who would really? Not even a wacky deep-sea m-Ender should see advantage to it.
Csargo has had few good posts, and that terrible, terrible case on Renata, while Boq has made a mid-game effort to post well, second after me. However, he has so many hateful associatives with ladd and dya, Patric. How they were all bouncing off each other on Amy and Vulgard, whereas Csargo's few associatives lean heavily anti-pair rather than pair. Either of them could easily be partners with Csargo. If it?s Csargo, he and Kage spent the past two days engaged in Level 1 distancing.
I will have more opportunity tomorrow.
if I had to take a guess it would be b/c kage voted amy after the deadline passed and raskol closed the day. Like ok timestamp reads or something but Rask posts the vote count at EOD-3 minutes. Calls D5 over at 7:01pm eastern time.
Kage votes Amy at 7:03 eastern. That's enough of a time gap to basically lock the last wolf into killing Amy b/c they can't use her as a chop after that.
hollowkatt
12-20-2022, 02:20
HK kiiiiinda town for this imo.
kage and dya wanted me dead from the word go. ladd ignored me basically.
hollowkatt
12-20-2022, 02:21
also monty rumbling in with that take cements my thinking that myself, ender, and monty are just town.
it's somewhere between boq and csargo
I don't think you take me into a lylo situation tbh.
I don't think it's Boq. Don't think it's hk. It's unlikely to be ender.
EnderWiggin
12-20-2022, 03:37
Dya/Ladd/Amy is not w/w/w
Just reading back and I'm more and more confident on this read.
Lemme admire my actual good takes.
EnderWiggin
12-20-2022, 03:42
4. Montmorency - old townread i wanna keep
5. Ampharos - :)
9. EnderWiggin - almost certainly not w/ ladd
12. Vulgard - mech clear iirc?
15. Renata - old townread i wanna keep
2. Csargo
3. Hollowkatt.
7. dyachei
13. Boquise
16. Totally not Taffy
17. Kagemusha
3 in there? seems doable
I think Amy was on the money here tbh
EnderWiggin
12-20-2022, 03:52
HK twice broke a tie in favour of voting a mafia.
Also had 2 wolves on him on D2 voting him.
HK is my clear buddy. There is no one clearer than he.
EnderWiggin
12-20-2022, 03:53
Boq, meanwhile, talked very well but almost always held thread position in favour of the wolves. Csargo/Monty held a much more natural thread position for all the reread I have.
EnderWiggin
12-20-2022, 03:58
prolly looking at something like
not touching HK/ender/monty/renata
taffy i think looks ~decent for the dya vote, though not as good as HK
leaves boq/kage/csargo to contain 2? and if i commit to boq/kage being unpaired, then
Vote: Csargo
mafia is so easy(?)
Mfw Amy is just good at the game.
EnderWiggin
12-20-2022, 04:00
Upon Ladd's death Boq immediately span into "Amy/Dya paired so both v" and "Ladd wouldn't agree with a Kage push like that if he was w/w!"
And then held that until Dya was 100% going to go over.
Boq then posted this:
interesting that both renata and taffy vote dya at this point (or well taffy doesnt have much choice tbh)..
mmm
(Taffy/Renata were his biggest susses at that point) and then shortly after just naked votes Dya.
Then CONTINUES to push the "Amy/Dya same alignment" schtick.
(Renata notes this:
Interesting (TM) that you undermine your own shade immediately upon saying it, but you still think it's necessary to say.)
EnderWiggin
12-20-2022, 04:00
There is a MILD suspicion on Csargo I have building.
But I think HK/Monty are clear.
I'm taking this to the grave, Boq > Csargo wins.
hollowkatt
12-20-2022, 05:18
Upon Ladd's death Boq immediately span into "Amy/Dya paired so both v" and "Ladd wouldn't agree with a Kage push like that if he was w/w!"
And then held that until Dya was 100% going to go over.
Boq then posted this:
(Taffy/Renata were his biggest susses at that point) and then shortly after just naked votes Dya.
Then CONTINUES to push the "Amy/Dya same alignment" schtick.
(Renata notes this:
)
I tried to get to the bottom of that concept from boq, lemme see if I can find that conversation
hollowkatt
12-20-2022, 05:29
csargo unlikely wolf due to the wagons. Ender unlikely wolf due to being voted by two wolves 8 minutes until eod.
If Amy wolf, renata and monty are cleared.
If Amy town, renata and monty scum equity rising.
There is a possibility that the whole wagon is town there but I do not think that BOTH Amy's and Logic's wagons are pure.
That means at least 1 of Amy and Taffy is a wolf. There is a chance that wolves commit 2 wolves on 2 wagons, which is I think what happens if Amy is a wolf. But gun to the head my gut says that only the Ender wagon consists of 2 wolves tbh.
If I go with my reads, I think HK is town. I have not decided yet if Kage IS town but I feel like ladd's way to handle my push makes him likely town. That would mean that all wolves are on wagon. We'll see if my thoughts change as I go down the rabbit hole.
This would mean that 1 of Monty/Renata is a wolf
I think both have been townie however so that is annoying tbh
So building on this:
I have previously unpaired Amy and Monty.
And in the post I am quoting, I am unpairing Amy with Renata (tho I know I have to resume reading the last 8 minutes so maybe I should shut up but no tbh).
That means, Amy can only be a wolf with Csargo, Taffy, HK, Kage.
Amy has tried to yeet Kage. Unpaired.
Csargo, Taffy, HK.
I am town reading HK pretty strongly.
Csargo, Taffy.
I think Csargo is town due to ladd and Dya already being on Ender. HOWEVER I can see why wolves would commit 3 wolves on 1 town wagon in hopes to save Amy, but that doesnt fit the timeline of votes (and Amy's wagon rising in votes). It also doesnt fit with occam's razors. Ladd and Dya are competent wolves. Idk who Csargo is, but he seems to be competent as a player. It is better to have at least 1 more wolf on the other town wagon (Logic). Otherwise wolves are boxed in. This makes Csargo also unlikely.
So based on process of elimination, if Amy is a wolf, she can only be with Taffy.
Which would make the wagons Town vs Scum vs Town. With 2 wolves on each town wagon.
Lets see what transpires in the last 8 minutes tbh
EnderWiggin I'm reminded that this post exists which came about from boq trying to figure out how to pair or unpair people and obvs hindsight is hindsight but it reads entirely like building a world that couldn't exist and the question I'm asking myself is this: could we have determined that this world couldn't exist at the time that this was posted.
Boq spends an extraordinary amount of time talking about everyone but Kage and halfheartedly clears Kage via a single throwaway line about how Ladd wouldn't have done xyz.
I know I had Boq as town the last couple of days but I have more reasons to town read you and monty than I do Boq, maybe more reasons to town read csargo but I can't commit to that at the moment.
for now vote: boq
I'm still looking for that conversation I had with boq regarding ladd/dya/amy
hollowkatt
12-20-2022, 05:30
I don't follow how it's a bad look for taffy via wagonomics?
I mean ok, that's a lie I have a theory but I want to hear yours first.
Boquise I don't remember, did you ever get back to me on this?
hollowkatt
12-20-2022, 05:32
tbh it sounds like something a savvy wolf would do if they wanted to look good especially in a lobby where they've already been D1'd by many of the same people before.
I'm not saying you're wrong. I am saying it isn't clearing for me
EnderWiggin follow this post to where I'm responding to Boq and give me your thoughts if you would
hollowkatt
12-20-2022, 05:36
this means ender is town 100%
Unvote
And Amy too
which means Dya is town as well
niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice
3chars
hollowkatt
12-20-2022, 05:36
off to bed @ me with whatever
Amy (Mixolydia) has been killed! They were vanilla town.
Day ends in 48 hours at 7pm EST on the 21th.
Csargo hollowkatt Montmorency Mixolydia (Amy) EnderWiggin Boquise
You may now post and enjoy!
lol what
i am kinda frustrated that i did not vote kage there when he was my first scum read and all. I realise that I have been leveling too much in this game, and assumed Kage was town based on how I imagine wolves in general would think
First, thanks for carrying yday.
Mafia being real pricks with the kills lately. Why would you ever even kill Amy, she?s perfect lurkbait for storming LYLO with.
No one here seems to believe it?s Boq, whose case I?ve laid out. Certainly though I can?t see him killing Amy solo when clearing her looks so bad for him. But who would really? Not even a wacky deep-sea m-Ender should see advantage to it.
Csargo has had few good posts, and that terrible, terrible case on Renata, while Boq has made a mid-game effort to post well, second after me. However, he has so many hateful associatives with ladd and dya, Patric. How they were all bouncing off each other on Amy and Vulgard, whereas Csargo's few associatives lean heavily anti-pair rather than pair. Either of them could easily be partners with Csargo. If it?s Csargo, he and Kage spent the past two days engaged in Level 1 distancing.
I will have more opportunity tomorrow.
based on last eod: csargo, ender and hk all clear
Vote Monty
we have two yeets left and thankfully scum can only be within us two, so even if I die today you'll go down tomorrow tbh
also monty rumbling in with that take cements my thinking that myself, ender, and monty are just town.
it's somewhere between boq and csargo
why does csargo vote kage there when we could easily have misyeeted Amy?
Boq, meanwhile, talked very well but almost always held thread position in favour of the wolves. Csargo/Monty held a much more natural thread position for all the reread I have.
yeah I sucked this game
Upon Ladd's death Boq immediately span into "Amy/Dya paired so both v" and "Ladd wouldn't agree with a Kage push like that if he was w/w!"
And then held that until Dya was 100% going to go over.
Boq then posted this:
(Taffy/Renata were his biggest susses at that point) and then shortly after just naked votes Dya.
Then CONTINUES to push the "Amy/Dya same alignment" schtick.
(Renata notes this:
)
Ender really wanting to end my career smh tbh
There is a MILD suspicion on Csargo I have building.
But I think HK/Monty are clear.
I'm taking this to the grave, Boq > Csargo wins.
Why is Monty clear?
EnderWiggin I'm reminded that this post exists which came about from boq trying to figure out how to pair or unpair people and obvs hindsight is hindsight but it reads entirely like building a world that couldn't exist and the question I'm asking myself is this: could we have determined that this world couldn't exist at the time that this was posted.
Boq spends an extraordinary amount of time talking about everyone but Kage and halfheartedly clears Kage via a single throwaway line about how Ladd wouldn't have done xyz.
I know I had Boq as town the last couple of days but I have more reasons to town read you and monty than I do Boq, maybe more reasons to town read csargo but I can't commit to that at the moment.
for now vote: boq
I'm still looking for that conversation I had with boq regarding ladd/dya/amy
and i was really proud of that kage/ladd disassociation too
damn you ladd
Boquise I don't remember, did you ever get back to me on this?
yes, it is somewhere
like i am okay with dying but if HK and Ender will then in lylo just sleep walk into a Csargo yeet when he was one of the three players yeeting Kage I wont die quietly. It will be total war in the thread tbh
I agree that Monty has been very townie, and there are reasons to town read him, such as how he handled renata, but there is nothing that is clearing. It is just words. Csargo on the other hand was one of the three people voting Kage in a lylo that could have easily been Amy going over. A 2 vote lead that she had is fickle which scum should have known, so I dont get why csargo would park on Kage as scum. And like all Kage did the day prior was to vote Csargo too.
Maybe I am leveling myself again tho but still.
tho what do i know - i have been wrong on like 80% of the game :wowee: im glad i wont have to experience lylo tbh
EnderWiggin
12-20-2022, 08:38
Boq, I'm happy to listen to you talk about Csargo. I had reasons to townread Monty although not all of them are amazing.
Talk to me about how Monty is wolf and Csargo is town. I've outlined why I probably am not letting you see tomorrow, sorry. But if you earnestly believe I'm on the wrong track on Csargo and think Monty should be the other wolf, throw what you have at me and I promise I will read it all and listen.
EnderWiggin
12-20-2022, 08:40
Why is Monty clear?
1. Very bold statement pinging his allies, although in retrospect maybe this isn't a great reason.
2. Actively brought attention to Kage even though he wasn't voting Kage at the end.
3. Why is Csargo clear from voting Kage when they cross voted and it was 1 more vote on Amy before EOD. Level 1 distancing that HK and I ruined by shafting Kage at EOD?
4. There was also a few POE posts where Monty actually had almost all the wolves POE'd.
Lemme check EOD wagons again.
Raskolnikov
12-20-2022, 13:23
Boquise (2): Ender, HK
Monty (2): Csargo, Boquise
Montmorency
12-20-2022, 19:34
Monty (2): Csargo, Boquise
https://img.ifunny.co/images/1bd87e90b8823b100d13ee7f5a60abbf3571e30f7c2a9cb918788649488f2712_1.jpg
EOD1, final tally:
Logic (7): Amy, Ender, Vulgard, Taffy ,Visor, Renata, Cape
Ender (5): Ladd, Csargo, dyachei, Logic , monty
Ampharos (2): Boquise, ATPG
Luv2spooge (1): HK
Renata (1): Kagemusha
Ladd (1): luv2spooge
The single best argument in favor of Csargo. In a perfect wagon spread on a near-perfect day for scum, why does dyachei become third on t-Ender wagon for a totally-impure wagon? Sure, maybe the low stakes of the day stirred dya to insure some deep WIFOM, but... Moreover, assuming an aversion to clumping fits well with the interpretation that in D2 below,
Late D2
Ender (5): Renata, Ladd, Boquise, Vulgard, Dyachei
Visor (4): HK, ATPG, Ender, Taffy
HK (1): Kagemusha
Vulgard (1): Amy
Kagemusha (1): Cape
Taffy (1): Visor
chillax friendos.
Visor (3): HK, Ender, Taffy
Ender (3): Renata, Ladd, Vulgard
Kagemusha (2): Cape, Visor
HK (2): Kagemusha, dya
Vulgard (1): Amy
argl, ninjaed by Boq
EOD in 3 hours 40 minutes roughly
EOD2, Visor has been yeeted under the sun! He flips vanilla town
Visor (6): Ender, Taffy, Renata, Csargo, HK, Boq
Ender (4): Ladd, Vulgard, Monty, Visor
HK (3): Kagemusha, dya, Cape
Vulgard (1): Amy
dya wagoned onto Ender after ladd and Boq, but the concentration was unstable and so dya and Boq spread out onto other MLs by EOD. I refuse to believe that Visor's wagon was pure, given that he and Cape were the top in-thread threat to ladd, dya, and Kage at that time - and Cape paid for that with his life that night.
So to recap, it all makes sense if Boq is scum. Scum don't want to triple up when 90+% of the wagon threat is to townies, and they actively avoid bunching together D2.
I'll review the data on interactions later, hopefully adding in Kage interactions.
Montmorency
12-20-2022, 19:45
First, thanks for carrying yday.
Mafia being real pricks with the kills lately. Why would you ever even kill Amy, she?s perfect lurkbait for storming LYLO with.
No one here seems to believe it?s Boq, whose case I?ve laid out. Certainly though I can?t see him killing Amy solo when clearing her looks so bad for him. But who would really? Not even a wacky deep-sea m-Ender should see advantage to it.
Csargo has had few good posts, and that terrible, terrible case on Renata, while Boq has made a mid-game effort to post well, second after me. However, he has so many hateful associatives with ladd and dya, Patric. How they were all bouncing off each other on Amy and Vulgard, whereas Csargo's few associatives lean heavily anti-pair rather than pair. Either of them could easily be partners with Csargo. If it?s Csargo, he and Kage spent the past two days engaged in Level 1 distancing.
I will have more opportunity tomorrow.
This is why I detest mobile-posting. My post contains some autocorrect or deletion errors.
"Either of [ladd, dya] could easily be partners with [Boq]"
I don't know what "Patric" was supposed to mean.
if I had to take a guess it would be b/c kage voted amy after the deadline passed and raskol closed the day. Like ok timestamp reads or something but Rask posts the vote count at EOD-3 minutes. Calls D5 over at 7:01pm eastern time.
Kage votes Amy at 7:03 eastern. That's enough of a time gap to basically lock the last wolf into killing Amy b/c they can't use her as a chop after that.
If both you and Ender say it's so, there must be something to that, but if it's Boq he should have taken her to LYLO with Csargo. Something to ask Kage about too.
Montmorency
why is it that Taffy town hurts Csargo and is this something you still think?
Super-basic negative credit for trying to make Taffy a counterwagon to dya on D3.
Dya (3): Ender, Vulgard, Renata
Taffy (1): Monty <<Csargo
Monty(1): HK
Kage (1): Amy
HK (1): Kagemusha
I already covered D3 analysis: while it's a bad look, this was near EOD, and if scum Csargo presumably would have known whether or not dya and Kage would be available and willing to try to push the Tdome for a rescue.
It's worse for Csargo that Renata N4 when she was IIRC the only player pressuring him (other than Amp and Kage), but even there Renata was pressuring Boq most of all, arguably more than I was.
like i am okay with dying but if HK and Ender will then in lylo just sleep walk into a Csargo yeet when he was one of the three players yeeting Kage I wont die quietly. It will be total war in the thread tbh
Why was Kage voting Csargo with no case or hope of building a wagon twice in a row midgame? Or in other words, if you are town, and I am town, who could the final maf possibly be?
ngl Csargo's slanking, and gradual dip/passivity, make him look much worse than you in a vacuum. And it is tough to see your strategy in NKing Amy when you could just pit Csargo or Ender against her during LYLO. Kage's late vote could be written off as potato rolling.
Whereas Csargo's play so far in mid-game, at least, is consistent with standard maf strategy (non-power).
I'll roll out interactions again later and see what comes of it.
Montmorency
12-20-2022, 19:48
Super-basic negative credit for trying to make Taffy a counterwagon to dya on D3.
Dya (3): Ender, Vulgard, Renata
Taffy (1): Monty << Csargo
Kage (1): Amy
HK (1): Kagemusha
Copy-paste failure
EBWOP
Boq, I'm happy to listen to you talk about Csargo. I had reasons to townread Monty although not all of them are amazing.
Talk to me about how Monty is wolf and Csargo is town. I've outlined why I probably am not letting you see tomorrow, sorry. But if you earnestly believe I'm on the wrong track on Csargo and think Monty should be the other wolf, throw what you have at me and I promise I will read it all and listen.
who has through posts worked for a space in the towncore that will make them difficult to yeet?
and who voted a wolf yesterday?
It is completely cool to have me in the poe and misyeet me today. I understand it. I was on the counter-wagon of yesterday when wolves could have made today lylo. Monty was on the counter wagon too. It is pro wolf to vote Amy yesterday.
the problem with csargo wolf is that then he played like a standard wolf with a very basic plan with very little fall-throughs, given how him and kage voted each other. It is very level 1. Again, I have not played with Csargo before and if he is bad at being a wolf, then sure, lets go. But thinking that there is no intellectual foresight behind a wolf's play is how we misyeet town.
Unvote
I rather not rand it and risk being in a lylo if I am wrong on Monty
but yeah, both ender town and csargo town means that both main wagons of d1 and d2 solely consisted of town so like lol
i feel like my words can negatively affect the upcoming lylo, considering i have been so hilariously wrong and basically been a liability for town, so i will not post much thoughts going forward tbh
i guess it boils down to perspective and approach
hk, csargo, ender and me have all been primitive in our reactions
basically "boquise is scum brrrrr" or "monty is scum brrrrr" whereas Monty is building worlds in where both me and csargo could be scum/town. Which creates a game plan for the next day come my flip. Whats csargo's game plan? Bench on doing nothing and let hk and ender rip me apart?
1. Very bold statement pinging his allies, although in retrospect maybe this isn't a great reason.
2. Actively brought attention to Kage even though he wasn't voting Kage at the end.
3. Why is Csargo clear from voting Kage when they cross voted and it was 1 more vote on Amy before EOD. Level 1 distancing that HK and I ruined by shafting Kage at EOD?
4. There was also a few POE posts where Monty actually had almost all the wolves POE'd.
Lemme check EOD wagons again.
i brought attention to kage too. At eod i even began solving and contemplating why he began posting and stuff. Why would I do that as w/w with him? It is not even distancing.
i dont know. Why am i wolf for voting amy then?
yeh but were monty behind most of those wolves' deaths?
That's pretty much my thoughts as well. Me and Boq can't win the game if either of us are wolfs, because the kills over the last few days just box us in. My posting and voting record are atrocious as multiple people have pointed out and Boq has posted solidly for most of the game, but doesn't have strong anti-alignments with flipped wolves. I've never played with Boq, but I doubt they'd screw themselves over this badly if they're a wolf.
Raskolnikov
12-21-2022, 08:24
Boquise (2): Ender, HK
Monty (1): Csargo
Montmorency
12-21-2022, 15:18
i guess it boils down to perspective and approach
hk, csargo, ender and me have all been primitive in our reactions
basically "boquise is scum brrrrr" or "monty is scum brrrrr" whereas Monty is building worlds in where both me and csargo could be scum/town. Which creates a game plan for the next day come my flip. Whats csargo's game plan? Bench on doing nothing and let hk and ender rip me apart?
"Plan" = POE. Everyone here has offered a POE at various times.
Can you describe how I've been implementing the plan? As scum I would seem to do the minimum to build cred from every one of the flips, and have been killing people who posed the least threat to me.
Look at this here from the Dya-Kage assoc catalogue,
#1152: After reading D1 Kage offers his leans, with the following scummy (top to bottom): Monty dyachei Vulgard cape90 Hollowkatt [This is a common sweet spot to slot partners into]
Kage specifically found dya scummy for "(#751 second follow Ender)." This refers to her naked vote on Ender, third on the wagon, tieing with Logic. ["third vote is a wagon is scum" is an Old Gameroom superstition that Kage would be familiar with as an OG. On the other hand, ladd was clearly making a strategy around pushing Ender, one that dya was implementing, so this could also be Kage in on the deal.]
I caught Kage slotting his partner 4th in POE in a classic tell, and I didn't try to work the information to my advantage at all.
Or from the ladd ISO:
#1152: In his leans post, Kage has ladd as the only member of the "town leaning" bucket, specifically for his original case against Logic. However, he also finds ladd's entry - voting Logic out of nowhere - to be scummy. [???]
In the #1600s Visor cases Ladd, as well as Taffy, dya, and HK. See character logs at the top - interesting that at the same time, Kage and dya - in response to Visor - had the same low-detail TLs on ladd and taffy.
Kage was no doubt not intended to LYLO. There's only one candidate for distancing between Kage and final scum, and that's Csargo.
Have I been making too many excuses for Csargo? Ladd-dya was famously a Six Flags water slide kind of relationship. Kage had a number of weirdly transparent associations with ladd and dya. Maybe I read too much caution into the Mafia team dynamic, wrongly ruling out Csargo for ladd-Csargo-dya on Ender or the effort to save dya D3. Could it be Csargo has slanked since D3 with bare votes, and tried to Level 1 distance his remaining partner with mutual votes even as he NKed to frame Boq?
But again, looking at VCA (EOD4):
Taffy (5): Monty, Csargo, Boquise, Renata, Taffy
Csargo (3): Amy, Kagemusha, Ender
Renata (1): Taffy
Kagemusha (1): HK
WHY wouldn't m-Csargo kill Ender here? Renata N4, fine, a dangerous-for-town kill that either Boq or Csargo could make. But N5, why spare Ender when Amy almost certainly won't make a solid showing of herself against you? It's not like I don't still POE Boq in that scenario.
I'd also like to ask Csargo who he would POE if not me.
Montmorency
12-21-2022, 17:46
OK, recap D1-2.
Here is the VCA.
EOD1, final tally:
Logic (7): Amy, Ender, Vulgard, Taffy ,Visor, Renata, Cape
Ender (5): Ladd, Csargo, dyachei, Logic , monty
Ampharos (2): Boquise, ATPG
Luv2spooge (1): HK
Renata (1): Kagemusha
Ladd (1): luv2spooge
The single best argument in favor of Csargo. In a perfect wagon spread on a near-perfect day for scum, why does dyachei become third on t-Ender wagon for a totally-impure wagon? Sure, maybe the low stakes of the day stirred dya to insure some deep WIFOM, but... Moreover, assuming an aversion to clumping fits well with the interpretation that in D2 below,
Late D2
Ender (5): Renata, Ladd, Boquise, Vulgard, Dyachei
Visor (4): HK, ATPG, Ender, Taffy
HK (1): Kagemusha
Vulgard (1): Amy
Kagemusha (1): Cape
Taffy (1): Visor
chillax friendos.
Visor (3): HK, Ender, Taffy
Ender (3): Renata, Ladd, Vulgard
Kagemusha (2): Cape, Visor
HK (2): Kagemusha, dya
Vulgard (1): Amy
argl, ninjaed by Boq
EOD in 3 hours 40 minutes roughly
EOD2, Visor has been yeeted under the sun! He flips vanilla town
Visor (6): Ender, Taffy, Renata, Csargo, HK, Boq
Ender (4): Ladd, Vulgard, Monty, Visor
HK (3): Kagemusha, dya, Cape
Vulgard (1): Amy
dya wagoned onto Ender after ladd and Boq, but the concentration was unstable and so dya and Boq spread out onto other MLs by EOD. I refuse to believe that Visor's wagon was pure, given that he and Cape were the top in-thread threat to ladd, dya, and Kage at that time - and Cape paid for that with his life that night.
So to recap, it all makes sense if Boq is scum. Scum don't want to triple up when 90+% of the wagon threat is to townies, and they actively avoid bunching together D2.
Ladd's last full reads post (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154761-Casual-december-game?p=2053838197&viewfull=1#post2053838197):
leaning villa
csargo - similarish to renata but a bit less strong. good thoughts/solving
dya - i havent been too hot in reading dya lately but i think the way they are making reads at their own pace and the SNARK everytime anyone dares to shade or wolf read them is >>>rand villa
upper PoE (mostly villa leans that i don't feel strong enough about)
boq- has done even less than me eheh. but when he posts i agree with everything he says just dunno if its enough to really move him up
Here are Csargo's associations with ladd/dya:
LADD
#1166: Renata tells ladd how to clear multiquotes.
#1167: Csargo affirms Renata's answer.
#1561: Ladd as part of reads post, asking Visor about Orgahs: renata/csargo both seem v villagery
#1579: From large reads post: leaning villa
csargo - similarish to renata but a bit less strong. good thoughts/solving
#1693: Visor @s Csargo for opinion on Taffy and ladd, Csargo responds in #1714.
#1714: I'll look at taffy and ladd again, my impression was they're both town. Feel like the stuff you said about taffy could easily be v stuff to me. Ladd was just feelies, felt good about their posting as they were catching up.
#1827: I think [Visor] more likely to be a woof than Taffy, maybe even ladd as well.
DYA
#344: Dya asks Csargo about Logic meta since Csargo is SRing Logic. Csargo doesn't know.
#355: dya comments "i feel like exactly the people i would expect to be wolf read pre-rand are the ones people are most concerned about" and Csargo asks if they mean Logic and Ender. Dya say's Amy.
#540: Responding to a Logic reads posts that has one sentence mentioning that dya being comfortable is scummy, Csargo says "I could see dya, don't get visor tho. I don't know anything about town dya though, I don't think." Logic in #676 finds reason to TR dya.
#659: To Vulgard lamenting a wasted day if Logic is town: If Logic's town we just yeet visor for funsies. prob dya as well. Csargo currently believes m-Logic and t/t Visor-dya.
#1328: In the middle of commentary responding to Taffy: "No idea what to make of the dya[-HK] back and forth."
#1446: Csargo questions dya's play: "A significant portion of dya's iso is either defending/explaining why logic/ampharos/vulgard are town. Is this normal? Does town Dya just defend their townreads a lot? Dya called cape and taffy v, but I didn't really see much else."
Here are Boq's associations with ladd/dya:
LADD
First interactions in #430s about posting gifs
#1240: Boq decides to TR ladd and sheep onto Ender because of ladd's posting since #1160, specifically quoting the D1 summary.
also, if amy is a wolf it means i was awesome yesterday tbh
#1555: Ladd says "i can see this [...] kage also kinda fits with literally any team" in response to Boq finding one of Kage's posts scummy.
#1579: From large reads post: upper PoE (mostly villa leans that i don't feel strong enough about)
boq- has done even less than me eheh. but when he posts i agree with everything he says just dunno if its enough to really move him up
#1764: In humoring Visor's requesst to talk about something other than Visor/Ender: lettuce talk super briefly (cause i gotta go and i am already late lol) about dya and boq
imo dya was very villagery last couple of pages, i feel the renata/HK pushes are the "hipster" pushes dya makes as a villager where they think they latch onto something and go for it despite what everyone else thinks
#1767 completing the thought on Boq: boq idk
i am not the best boq reader. he has felt very chill this game and i havent really disagreed with anything he has said
i also think he defended a lot of people i think are villagers so that wins him points too
but clearly none of those things are impossible to fake as a wolf
#1769: kage feels like someone who is gonna die to the villagers regardless of alignment best i got is that he is not w/w with boq (probably)
#1804: Boq asks ladd what info an Ender ouster will offer
#1810: When Ender suggests a Ladd/Visor team: Ladd said he was leaning on Visor wolf tho
#1816: Boq asks ladd to read him and soon realizes ladd did, quoting the post.
#1832: TRs ladd for a post lamenting the non-casual nature of the game.
#1836: Says "Mmmmh" to a ladd post telling Ender that he is his top SR.
#1908: Boq examines ladd's possible motivations as scum, concluding that "I think by occam's razors, ladd is town tbh. It is way more similar to his modus operandi as town than scum tbh."
#1920: Leans list with ladd as lowest town. Ladd unpaired with both Visor and Ender.
DYA
#389: Dya greets Boq. Boq reciprocates.
#410/12/17/35/39/46/51: Dya complains about wall-posts and boq jibes "i gift you a weak scum lean tbh." Dya retorts that not liking wall-posts is not AI, but Boq feels "it is a sort of contribution i have seen wolves do tbh." Dya reminds him that he's seen townies do it too, but Boq believes that "yes but in general it is wolfy to whine about walls and do nothing else tbh because it is a super easy thing to do whilst you stay relevant in the thread conscious." Dya says that they haven't been doing nothing but whining about walls.
#419/38: Dya questions the validity (via Boq's approbation) of Pizza's suspicion of Vulgard's level of tilt; dya finds annoyance non-indicative and references own experience. Boq agrees but considers disproportionate annoyance scum-leaning in a vacuum. But Boq now wishes to rescind this impression of Vulgard as the latter has posted more.
#426: Boq tells Pizza he's rescinding the weak scum read on dya.
#603: Boq finds dya towny for persisting in the long exchange (see above) even though Boq rescinded the FoS already.
#719: After losing weak TL on Amp and voting her,
town reads:
cape, vulgard
town leans:
visor, dya, hk, luvs
#720: Dya immediately reacts to the above with "how did the thread react and what do you think about it?" [I don't understand what this means.] Boq says thread didn't react and discusses impressions of Kage, Logic, and Visor, concluding with light FoS on Kage. Logic finds this exchange scummy for dya in #736.
#1245-84: Boq quotes a Vulgard post to dya asking if that's the one they disliked. Dya acknowledges it, describing the Vulg post as "wolfy backtalk." But Boq finds it TWTBAW. Dya responds that she thinks Vulgard was caught in a lie. Boq still doesn't believe m-Vulgard would be "textbook wolfy."
Montmorency
12-21-2022, 17:48
Kage-Csargo early game: Kage opens content-wise by RVS Csargo. He later comments on Csargo jokingly calling himself scummy to Pizza by RVS Renata and telling Csargo that
"Certain amount of bloodthirst is in order to flush mafia out." Csargo does not respond in either case, though he does respond to a contemporaneous dya question about Csargo's shade on Logic and Csargo's meta thereon.
Kage-Boq early game:
Kage-Boq-Csargo D3:
I just don't have time to do these rn
Kage-Boq-Csargo D4:
Kage reads D3 wagonomics:
Townish
Renata, Taffy, Boque
neutral
Monty, Amy
Kage votes Csargo. Csarg suggests Amy/Kage/Boq. Boq asks about this.
Boq pushes Amy-Kage for the sake of TRing Csargo after having said "Amy has tried to yeet Kage. Unpaired." However, ladd-Kage interactions leave Boq at t-Kage. Boq points out Cape could have been killed for voting Kage once.
I feel like Kage was a vanity wagon made in hope to remove the oomph from the main wagons
kage on D3 never got higher than 2: amy/monty
A counterwagon gotta start somewhere - doesn't mean an attempt will always be successful. I think if Kage is town then Amy/Monty have higher scum equity. Monty has however been townsiding imo yesterday so I am more into Amy.
Like, remember how ladd treated my FoS on Kage. He encouraged it, gave it his blessings. I do not think he does that to a LHF wolf teammate. Ladd knows by now that it is easy to make me doubt by questioning my reads tbh
Kage-Boq-Csargo D5:
townish
Boque, Monty
[...]
My vote is the same as yesterday. Csargo is flying under the radar. Leaving reasoning for his votes to other people, like Monty yesterday. You should look at him closer and draw the right conclusions. Vote: Csargo
what do you mean like monty yesterday Kagemusha
Boquise Sorry, English is not my native language, so sometimes my sentences can be quite confusing. What i mean is that yesterday Csargo was using Monty?s reasoning for his voting. Hiding behind it. Earlier he was using Visor?s reasoning, which enabled him to fly under the radar, since the decision making process is not his own. You can find my reasoning from post #2508 where im placing you at that scale based on your voting behaviour concerning Dya?s lynch.
mmmh alright, thanks tbh
Vote Amy
Ultimately, I think it is easier to solve Csargo than Amy and Kage
i have some updated thoughts but will wait to talk about them until tomorrow
kinda miffed that kage appeared to answer a question and then just dipped again. Makes me feel like theres some lurking going on
Kage offered no reasons for TRing Boq. Csargo parked on Kage D5, offered the terrible Kage/Amy solve, reasoning that "Kage's only engaged the game on the surface, and in the later phases with decreased volume that shouldn't be happening imo." (Kage had earlier made his case against Csargo for sheeping me.)
Montmorency
12-21-2022, 17:49
Csargo interactions/associations are tangentially antagonistic, whereas Boq's are broader and more collaborative, engaging in shallow interactions and fishing for TLs on dya and ladd. Could be supporting Mafia manipulation of vibes around Vulgard, Ender, Visor, Amp, etc. Also, Boq popping in together with ladd at EOD to deflect from pressure on dya and keep the MLs on track. #1908 and the D1 dya interactions (see ISOs) work great as distancing theater.
Boq fits with ladd/dya much better than Csargo does.
However, Kage - who was basically sweet-spot POEed by both dya and ladd with zero direct interactions - Kage assoc looks bad for Csargo, though not necessarily good for Boq.
Csargo sheeping on Taffy D3/4 a bad look.
But again, that N5 kill. Why wouldn't Csargo kill HK over Amy? Or at the VERY least, kill Amy N6. In Boq's case, an Amy kill is a bad option IMO but at least I can say killing me or HK is a less-good option for Boq than it is for Csargo. But we're deep in the informatic-asymmetry quest here.
I still haven't finished ISOing Kage, but maybe for now this from D4 without progression leans me toward Boq.
Amy has tried to yeet Kage. Unpaired.
\
i am not sure why you completely remove amy and kage as a relationship, so you could elaborate there tbh!
But maybe this is why Amy died?
leaves boq/kage/csargo to contain 2? and if i commit to boq/kage being unpaired, then
Vote: Csargo
mafia is so easy(?)
I didn't sheep anyone onto Taffy, pretty sure I made a few posts surrounding why I was voting there. No reason for me to kill Renata to shade Boq, when Renata was tring me, and I could just keep them around to push Boq. Then just have two townies duking it out to distract people.
I don't really have a PoE outside of you tbh, I expect to die here today hopefully.
"Plan" = POE. Everyone here has offered a POE at various times.
Can you describe how I've been implementing the plan? As scum I would seem to do the minimum to build cred from every one of the flips, and have been killing people who posed the least threat to me.
Look at this here from the Dya-Kage assoc catalogue,
I caught Kage slotting his partner 4th in POE in a classic tell, and I didn't try to work the information to my advantage at all.
Or from the ladd ISO:
Kage was no doubt not intended to LYLO. There's only one candidate for distancing between Kage and final scum, and that's Csargo.
Have I been making too many excuses for Csargo? Ladd-dya was famously a Six Flags water slide kind of relationship. Kage had a number of weirdly transparent associations with ladd and dya. Maybe I read too much caution into the Mafia team dynamic, wrongly ruling out Csargo for ladd-Csargo-dya on Ender or the effort to save dya D3. Could it be Csargo has slanked since D3 with bare votes, and tried to Level 1 distance his remaining partner with mutual votes even as he NKed to frame Boq?
But again, looking at VCA (EOD4):
Taffy (5): Monty, Csargo, Boquise, Renata, Taffy
Csargo (3): Amy, Kagemusha, Ender
Renata (1): Taffy
Kagemusha (1): HK
WHY wouldn't m-Csargo kill Ender here? Renata N4, fine, a dangerous-for-town kill that either Boq or Csargo could make. But N5, why spare Ender when Amy almost certainly won't make a solid showing of herself against you? It's not like I don't still POE Boq in that scenario.
I'd also like to ask Csargo who he would POE if not me.
On this issue, whatever transpired before this day is entirely irrelevant. I am feeling like you are trying to drown me out with your walls.
What I said was:
Every player but you entered today with a very set mindset. "X is scum, but if not X then Y. X is always yeeted first".
You are world building into the next day were you open it up more. I am not going to be a part of that farce and I will enjoy watching you debate yourself out of the next day tbh
like i know i played terribly this game and i am ready to get roasted in dvc. I should have jumped back and voted Kage instead of leveling myself with the ladd stuff, and level myself with how Kage unnecessarily popped into the thread to make questionable posts, and to look at the vc and conclude that if both amy and ender are town then the logic wagon is pure, which I did not think it is.
Monty. If you are town. You are drowning me with text where I dont know where to start and I am too unmotivated to try to parce it.
I didn't sheep anyone onto Taffy, pretty sure I made a few posts surrounding why I was voting there. No reason for me to kill Renata to shade Boq, when Renata was tring me, and I could just keep them around to push Boq. Then just have two townies duking it out to distract people.
I don't really have a PoE outside of you tbh, I expect to die here today hopefully.
how can you expect to die today when the votes are on me and ender and hk have all declared their full intention to vote me out because they think I am the likeliest wolf? Like where does this expectation come from? Monty two-siding it?
Raskolnikov
12-21-2022, 21:01
EOD in 4 hours.
Last tally's still valid :bow:
Either way,
Csargo has not set-up a lylo for himself, which he must have wanted to do considering he and Kage voted each other and then he is not even trying to rake in the credit of the votes.
Monty has set-up a lylo for himself where he lives.
I will return to vote
Vote Monty
What pauses me on Csargo is that I am putting my mind in the same situation as I did yesterday, when I decided to not vote Kage. Plus Csargo expecting himself to be voted out today doesnt sound like a real thought.
I just think I've objectively posted worse than you have overall. That's basically my thought.
I just think I've objectively posted worse than you have overall. That's basically my thought.
have you been here for a while or did you just pop in?
I am getting Kage flashbacks
I'm just popping in occasionally
EnderWiggin
12-21-2022, 23:13
Mfw Monty hasn't voted yet
Montmorency
12-21-2022, 23:15
I didn't sheep anyone onto Taffy, pretty sure I made a few posts surrounding why I was voting there. No reason for me to kill Renata to shade Boq, when Renata was tring me, and I could just keep them around to push Boq. Then just have two townies duking it out to distract people.
I don't really have a PoE outside of you tbh, I expect to die here today hopefully.
I cited several Renata posts, despite calling them unrepresentative, indicating that she was still sussing you into D4, before she turned fully on Boq and sheeped me on Taffy.
Here is what you said about Taffy D3-4.
I didn't like a couple of Taffy posts yesterday.
The Visor should die regardless of alignment, just doesn't seem like a townie thought to me. Could also just be annoyance with Visor though.
The self-quote calling it woofy is almost twtbat, just very defensive.
HK is the only person that comes to mind that Taffy's pushed. Maybe pizza, possibly ender. Visor as well.
I'm pretty sure I used a couple 'think' and 'feels' post in Visor iso of that game, and painted that as uncertainty to prove my point in the argument. I don't think I gain anything for doing it, but read into it what you will.
Taffy can be a woof. I think the treatment of Visor's slot looks less like a townie trying to solve an alignment of a person and more I just don't want to deal with them imo. I can see Visor's perspective, but just feel like it was partially valid.
Visor quote:
taffy is a wolf because there is no attitude, just treading water, no push, no sassitude, just posting reasonable sounding thinsg while not moving the game state forward
Felt like the bolded were true yesterday when I was reading Taffy's iso. Think the other stuff was there and makes it just partially accurate.
Kage's spoken about a handful of people, voting hk, calling ladd/Taffy town, and Visor gray from what I remember. I think ladd also offered you/Kage up as people who should have been getting pressured, so idk what to make of it.
Vote:Taffy
D4
I thought [dya and taffy] were both woofs
I'm not gonna say I believe strongly in anything I say, as either alignment, that's just how I do things.
I went into yesterday wanting to look at the people Visor brought up, because I thought Visor probably had the best view of the game of anyone. So that's what I did. I'm not gonna say I did a good job, but that's what I was trying to accomplish.
I simplified what was essentially my problem with you and Taffy. I think they were reasonable to bring up, though I doubt I did a good job of it. I never looked at Boq tho, which is a problem.
I think Amy/Kage/Boq fit. I don't know why one of those names with Taffy could not be a team. I'm pretty sure that Taffy was as at a similar level to Dya until EoD, as far as posting.
Vote:Taffy
I don't remember anything that would not make Taffy/you possibly a team. That's pretty much it.
I tend to lean Ampharos/Taffy.
You made the bulk of your case on a qualified sheep of Visor (though I see you began sussing Kage at that time already), starting soon after I voted Taffy on the basis of a Csargo-Taffy solve. Your last assoc was when you approbated my D4 "slam dunk" Taffy case and Visor hype with an emoticon.
Not a lot of substance there other than sheeping, though as with the rest of your ISO it's hard to pin you down in an outright lie or a slip exactly.
Why should I believe you expect to die today if no one has even voted you. Unless you really are a loverboy.
On this issue, whatever transpired before this day is entirely irrelevant. I am feeling like you are trying to drown me out with your walls.
What I said was:
Every player but you entered today with a very set mindset. "X is scum, but if not X then Y. X is always yeeted first".
You are world building into the next day were you open it up more. I am not going to be a part of that farce and I will enjoy watching you debate yourself out of the next day tbh
If what you meant is that I'm the least settled of the living players, you should have said so. But I don't think anyone here is actually ride-or-die on solving the game with their vote, except for maybe you and Csargo, so the point deserves elaboration.
Monty. If you are town. You are drowning me with text where I dont know where to start and I am too unmotivated to try to parce it.
If this much is drowning you in text - most of it is just indexing previously-published analysis or quotes - then idk, come what may. Maybe we're all too checked out for lifting.
If you want to self-pres on Csargo, we can talk. Otherwise Vote: Boq
Montmorency
12-21-2022, 23:16
Mfw Monty hasn't voted yet
Near-ninja
EnderWiggin
12-21-2022, 23:18
Lmao.
I did say so. It was very clear what I meant.
Also yeah, that much text with quotes is a lot. English isn't my first language and it becomes difficult to understand what you actually want with your posts. Me admitting that is me trying to be communicative. Your response is a middle-finger. My vote stays.
also lmao no ender and hk are super cemented on me being a wolf. Dont try make it into it being just me and csargo.
I'm just popping in occasionally
lol.
Lmao.
so are you gonna sleep-walk into csargo tomorrow or will you play?
Raskolnikov
12-22-2022, 00:07
Boquise (3): Ender, HK, Monty
Monty (2): Csargo, Boquise
EOD in about 50 minutes friendos
EnderWiggin
12-22-2022, 00:11
so are you gonna sleep-walk into csargo tomorrow or will you play?
I promise if you flip blue then I will check Monty out carefully if I'm alive.
Montmorency
12-22-2022, 00:18
Guess I'll :daisy: around.
Vote: Csargo
Raskolnikov
12-22-2022, 00:27
Boquise (2): Ender, HK
Monty (2): Csargo, Boquise
Csargo (1): Monty
EnderWiggin
12-22-2022, 00:50
Wut.
EnderWiggin
12-22-2022, 00:52
Gonna have to explain what you're doing there Monty
Montmorency
12-22-2022, 00:53
Gonna have to explain what you're doing there Monty
Maybe there's a wagon for Csargo.
Raskolnikov
12-22-2022, 00:55
Boquise (2): Ender, HK
Monty (2): Csargo, Boquise
Csargo (1): Monty
EOD in 5 minutes
Montmorency
12-22-2022, 00:56
I'm not that brave.
Vote: Boq
Raskolnikov
12-22-2022, 00:58
Boquise (3): Ender, HK, Monty
Monty (2): Csargo, Boquise
EnderWiggin
12-22-2022, 00:59
I hope I'm right lol.
Montmorency
12-22-2022, 01:01
C'mon give me one ouster all game
Raskolnikov
12-22-2022, 01:01
Day 6 has ended.
Raskolnikov
12-22-2022, 01:02
Final tally:
Boquise (3): Ender, HK, Monty
Monty (2): Csargo, Boquise
Boquise has been ousted! He flips vanilla town!
SOD7 in 24 hours. GN!
Raskolnikov
12-22-2022, 23:57
Csargo has been killed! He was vanilla town.
Day 7 ends in roughly 49 hours. (24th, 7pm Est).
Votes arent locked. Good luck.
EnderWiggin hollowkatt Montmorency Csargo
EnderWiggin
12-23-2022, 00:22
What.
EnderWiggin
12-23-2022, 00:27
Vote: Monty
HK has no reason to shake things up and not just kill me last night and then force you/Csargo to cross.
He was effectively cleared. No one sussed him and I am a perfectly fine kill.
I also have no reason for this.
But also why the hell wouldn't you take the 50/50?
EnderWiggin
12-23-2022, 00:29
I'll be doing another reread later today but honestly if HK has done all this then:
1. Why?
2. I'm probably not changing.
Last night was easy 1 kill between me or HK and either of us dying didn't really implicate the other. Csargo and Monty were already "keyed" to vote each other after yesterday.
I just don't see why we don't just kill one of the other.
EnderWiggin
12-23-2022, 00:31
Only worry in my head:
Why does Monty risk this? This is way riskier when HK and I are reading each other hard town then just slipping one of us out and doming Csargo.
EnderWiggin
12-23-2022, 00:43
Boq: "Make sure you don't sleepwalk to a Csargo kill in f3"
Wolf: "I gotchu fam"
hollowkatt
12-23-2022, 01:11
Boq: "Make sure you don't sleepwalk to a Csargo kill in f3"
Wolf: "I gotchu fam"
lol right
I'm voting Monty today and I don't think there's an argument than can sway me into Ender.
vote: Monty
hollowkatt
12-23-2022, 01:11
and now we sit here for 47.75 hours
hollowkatt
12-23-2022, 01:15
I'll be doing another reread later today but honestly if HK has done all this then:
1. Why?
2. I'm probably not changing.
Last night was easy 1 kill between me or HK and either of us dying didn't really implicate the other. Csargo and Monty were already "keyed" to vote each other after yesterday.
I just don't see why we don't just kill one of the other.
one argument is you're the wolf and know I'm going to vote monty today and now that you realize votes aren't locked you've got to appear like you're trying to understand what happened.
hollowkatt
12-23-2022, 01:17
Vote: Monty
HK has no reason to shake things up and not just kill me last night and then force you/Csargo to cross.
He was effectively cleared. No one sussed him and I am a perfectly fine kill.
I also have no reason for this.
But also why the hell wouldn't you take the 50/50?
if monty takes me/csargo or you/csargo it telegraphs that csargo is the person he wanted in lylo to chop for the win. I think he couldn't take csargo for that reason. He should have because of the omg wifom that would go on, but tbh he should have killed me b/c I'm always voting monty here.
hollowkatt
12-23-2022, 01:17
anyways, storms a-comin' and I want to watch it roll in. @ me if there's anything you lot wanna talk about.
Montmorency
12-23-2022, 01:21
The sum of our fears. Holloway has been toying with us for a long time then.
I can’t make this case, or at least I’m not making the effort. I’ve already put in way too much time chasing snipes.
Ender, if you don't want to reconsider, I’ll tender my surrender.
Vote: HK GGWP A classic
EnderWiggin
12-23-2022, 01:24
one argument is you're the wolf and know I'm going to vote monty today and now that you realize votes aren't locked you've got to appear like you're trying to understand what happened.
Org has never locked votes afaik. Or at least none of the org games I've been late in.
It's much more old school, locked votes were a new thing I had to get my head around when I came back to this game.
EnderWiggin
12-23-2022, 01:24
I will do a reread of the game to make sure, but I'm like 90% sure I'm stuck on you Monty. (Reread will be in a few hours at least because irl/work stuff)
EnderWiggin
12-23-2022, 01:58
Eh I was bad and just did a reread of D1/D2 at work and I really can't see myself ever voting HK over Monty here.
Monty didn't have great interactions with either Dya or Ladd, and was mostly cleared because of strong D3 solving (which was all incorrect) and a ballsy callout post.
Comparatively, Kage and Dya both helped push HK into contention as a wagon and tried to wagon him 2 days in a row, and he had a good argument with Dya over meta too.
Like if that's distancing then well played.
EnderWiggin
12-23-2022, 02:01
Paranoia eats me.
Why was I kept alive.
Montmorency
12-23-2022, 03:44
HK seems to have very strong reasons for making the late game kills he did, reasons I could never have thought of because from my position they’re quite ridiculous.
Renata’s death was the first hint that town core was infiltrated. It was a solid kill relative to individuals in the POE at the time, but it's a red flag because if either Ender or HK were scum, by theory it wouldn’t do for one to kill the other because by LYLO they would stick out like a sore thumb. I forget the Mafia terminology, something like ‘Why are you still alive’ syndrome. Both have to be alive so the existence of one covers for the other. (Moreover, as it happened the town core stayed strong without tinfoil, so no extenuating factors were present to interfere with the kill chain.) So either m-HK or m-Ender were locked into only killing Renata and Csargo out of the core (preferably framing Csargo).
But killing Amp and sparing me, or killing Csargo over Ender, just to do me over at LYLO, that’s an infamia, the sign of someone rather cocky about their thread position.
Sheeping Ender onto Kage at EOD5, having voted Csargo - already beginning the attempt to break up the towncore from within - seems like a sign.
Clearly both Ender and HK were under some pressure from all the rest of the mafia at various points, Ender more so than HK. So the presence of distancing alone isn't a decisive factor.
But the EOD2 timeline
Visor (3): HK, Ender, Taffy
Ender (3): Renata, Ladd, Vulgard
Kagemusha (2): Cape, Visor
HK (2): Kagemusha, dya
Vulgard (1): Amy
argl, ninjaed by Boq
EOD in 3 hours 40 minutes roughly
EOD2, Visor has been yeeted under the sun! He flips vanilla town
Visor (6): Ender, Taffy, Renata, Csargo, HK, Boq
Ender (4): Ladd, Vulgard, Monty, Visor
HK (3): Kagemusha, dya, Cape
Vulgard (1): Amy
SOD3 in 24 hours (7 PM EST)
works best with m-HK. Into EOD Visor was putting Kage and dya under a lot of pressure, at which ladd intervened to defend them, as well as Taffy and HK. So dya switched to HK for distancing cred, since HK was under no threat compared to Ender and Visor. Meanwhile, HK was the vote ensuring that Visor died over Ender, since Visor was dangerous - SRing ladd and dya and getting there on Kage - while Ender was less so, and more limbait.
There you have it. Tell Rask if you accept my forfeit/hammer.
hollowkatt
12-23-2022, 04:46
yeah I really told my pack to bus me from the word go or ignore me. I then drove buses over dya and kage and expected to end game when I have probably the most pelts of anyone this game. Seems like a great plan.
Montmorency
12-23-2022, 05:01
yeah I really told my pack to bus me from the word go or ignore me. I then drove buses over dya and kage and expected to end game when I have probably the most pelts of anyone this game. Seems like a great plan.
They pressured you a whole lot less than Ender. I don't think you needed a plan after D3, being as deep as you were - other than to not kill Ender. Leaving me alive was kind of a cruel loose end as I said, though. Couldn't you have done it to Amy or something?
hollowkatt
12-23-2022, 06:48
They pressured you a whole lot less than Ender. I don't think you needed a plan after D3, being as deep as you were - other than to not kill Ender. Leaving me alive was kind of a cruel loose end as I said, though. Couldn't you have done it to Amy or something?
my momma always told me if I can't say anything nice to not say anything at all, but the way I see it is this:
You absolutely could not bring csargo with you because if you did you'd spew that he's town and he's the mistake you need to win the game. That's why ender and myself are here. Killing me means you've got to convince Ender the guy you've been hard pushing for the last two days is a wolf and why would csargo do that when he could bring me and ender instead?
Likewise killing Ender means you've brought me and csargo and I've been waffling on you for a couple of days. Sometimes town sometimes "why are you alive", which means you've got to convince me that csargo is the wolf, not you.
I know I'm not the wolf and I don't think Ender ever plays this game the way he has if he's the wolf. I'm rock solid in that read.
EnderWiggin
12-23-2022, 07:19
Why is HK the wolf of us pair, why were you instantly on that Monty?
Montmorency
12-23-2022, 15:37
my momma always told me if I can't say anything nice to not say anything at all, but the way I see it is this:
You absolutely could not bring csargo with you because if you did you'd spew that he's town and he's the mistake you need to win the game. That's why ender and myself are here. Killing me means you've got to convince Ender the guy you've been hard pushing for the last two days is a wolf and why would csargo do that when he could bring me and ender instead?
:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
I had to kill Csargo to face the two living consensus locks who TR each other, because there's no way that Csargo as scum would have kept me alive, when instead he could face the - *checks notes* - two living consensus locks who TR each other?
which means you've got to convince me that csargo is the wolf, not you.
Would I rather try to convince you that Ender is scum, or Ender that you are scum?
See, your unusual way of calculating kills is the flaw in your plan.
Would you like to try again?
I was only pushing him D6 by the way; you started D5.
Why is HK the wolf of us pair, why were you instantly on that Monty?
It was certainly not instant, but you were always the lockediest-lock of players (other than Vulgard), and from my review of scum ISOs and wagonomics, you're solid.
hollowkatt
12-23-2022, 16:22
:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
I had to kill Csargo to face the two living consensus locks who TR each other, because there's no way that Csargo as scum would have kept me alive, when instead he could face the - *checks notes* - two living consensus locks who TR each other?
Would I rather try to convince you that Ender is scum, or Ender that you are scum?
See, your unusual way of calculating kills is the flaw in your plan.
Would you like to try again?
I was only pushing him D6 by the way; you started D5.
It was certainly not instant, but you were always the lockediest-lock of players (other than Vulgard), and from my review of scum ISOs and wagonomics, you're solid.
Alex I'll take "Things Wolves Have to Say in F3 for 2000 dollars please"
Montmorency
12-23-2022, 16:29
You've had reason to be super-cocky about your slot since mid-game began, but I don't mess around like that. If I were scum, my F3 would have been Amy-Csargo or something like that.
EnderWiggin
12-24-2022, 15:26
I'm sorry Monty.
If HK is wolf then even when I'm reading him with the assumption he's wolf I'm struggling to see it.
HK's interactions with both Kage and Dya is on a whole different stage to any of the w/w interactions from any of the 3 flipped wolves.
They vote him to top wagon when Taffy is showing strong doubt of HK and trying to push him.
Like, if they decided to risk bussing HK hard on D2 and then have him go deep by flipping wolves when he didn't need to just
Idk
I lose to that I guess.
Locking my Vote to Monty
EnderWiggin
12-24-2022, 15:29
Even if I'm right this is not my best F3 tbh. I wanted to ask you both questions and thoughts but the approach of Christmas + me being sick as a dog has just left me with brief moments of sanity to reread.
I hope I'm right, but sorry if I'm not.
Raskolnikov
12-24-2022, 23:54
Monty (2): HK, Ender
HK (1): Monty
I am going to end the day earlier since it seems the game has come to an end.
Raskolnikov
12-25-2022, 00:07
1. Visor
2. Csargo
3. hollowkatt
4. Montmorency
5. Ampharos
6. luvs2spooge
7. dyachei
8. Askthepizzaguy
9. EnderWiggin
10. Cape90
11. ladd
12. Vulgard
13. Boquise
14. Logic
15. Renata
16. Totally not Taffy
17. Kagemusha
Montmorency has been ousted! He was vanilla town!
Congratulation to the wolves, Dyachei, Ladd, Kagemusha, and hollowkatt (the lonewolf who never get to join the wc, but carried nonetheless) for winning this game.
Thanks everybody for playing, thanks Zack for the kind review and Visor for helping with flips.
Enjoy the holidays friendos, su in 2023 gamers :bow:
Askthepizzaguy
12-25-2022, 00:10
So in case it wasn't clear, I was keeping who I shot secret so that the wolves wouldn't be able to kill the desperado.
I communicated clearly with both Ender and Vulgard before I made the shot, and as soon as Vulgard knew why I had to set things up by crumbing how the person I shot needed to be able to solve it out, by receiving the desperado shot from me, he knew he probably survives the night as long as Ender doesn't die.
He got there on Ladd and shot a wolf.
I played the game tactically with the idea I can be wrong in the full forefront of my mind, to make certain the desperado shot gets used on a wolf even when I am wrong.
The second guessing and sniping at me for playing the role with the premise of preserving it even when wrong, and getting to day 2 in order to use it in the first place, calling it selfish and all kinds of trashy names while I couldn't respond, is much worse than me guessing wrong in a guessing game.
Thank you for the game Raskol, running this while also having a 2 shot vigilante power in a concurrent completed game meant that I had to choose 3 vigilante shots in early game without being nightkilled and the pressure of that absolutely destroyed my ability to be graceful under pressure.
I apologize.
I did my best, and whenever that isn't good enough for others, it's time to stop.
Askthepizzaguy
12-25-2022, 00:12
For these kinds of reasons, I never go to DVCs anymore.
People always shit on people for guessing wrong, sometimes they don't even wait that long.
Thanks everyone else for the game, good game wolves and HollowKatt, I tip my HollowHatt to you.
I missed all of you fine people if I havent seen you in ages.
Sorry I was stressed.
Montmorency
12-25-2022, 00:14
Damn, HK was lost wolf? Extremely powerful role, basically SK, but by LYLO it wasn't difficult to confirm that Ender had all the town tells through associatives, VCA, tone, and NKs.
wp HK
Vulgard and Visor town MVP. I sucked as usual, though tbf HK was very difficult to find by exclusionary process with so many candidates.
Montmorency — 12/21/2022 7:10 PM
LYLO is going to end on the same page it begins with
Montmorency
12-25-2022, 00:20
For these kinds of reasons, I never go to DVCs anymore.
People always shit on people for guessing wrong, sometimes they don't even wait that long.
Thanks everyone else for the game, good game wolves and HollowKatt, I tip my HollowHatt to you.
I missed all of you fine people if I havent seen you in ages.
Sorry I was stressed.
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154761-Casual-december-game?p=2053838873&viewfull=1#post2053838873
For game analysis purposes though, I would request some insight on this though.
I'm actually surprised Pizza never saw a single scummy post from ladd, when ladd spent a lot of time being passive-aggressive around Pizza and judging players on how they interacted with Pizza. Feels like this specifically breaks one of Pizza's stated rules, including as he himself described them D1.
Fun game btw Rask
EnderWiggin
12-25-2022, 00:21
...
LOST wolf.
Of course.
Right I'm gonna... go over here or something.
Raskolnikov
12-25-2022, 00:24
The pack had to provide me with a guess about the lonewolf identity. He would have joined the chat if correct. But that never happened (well technically it did, but Kage was chopped the same day).
Montmorency
12-25-2022, 00:27
The pack had to provide me with a guess about the lonewolf identity. He would have joined the chat if correct. But that never happened (well technically it did, but Kage was chopped the same day).
Was it a daily guess, or did the team save it until endgame?
Hey Ender, thank you for keeping it pure after the clearing.
Raskolnikov
12-25-2022, 00:38
Was it a daily guess, or did the team save it until endgame?
Hey Ender, thank you for keeping it pure after the clearing.
It was a daily guess Monty. (So the lonewolf could join at EOD if the guess was correct)
Lost wolf moment. I hate lost wolves and this is an example of them sucking imo. HK probably gets a lot more scrutiny if he doesn't look really good off interactions (which he presumably did because LW moment).
GG. I liked how people I'd never even heard of before played here (Csargo, Kagemusha, Monty, Renata, Taffy... probably missed someone)
And Pizza, I'm well and truly accustomed to getting pushed, but I'm not going to pretend that you didn't seriously annoy me with the way you treated my slot. You were town for it, I figured you were town for it, but it was frustrating. I think you played your role fine, though.
If I had a nickel for every game I was in with Visor where I received a daykill and used it on mafia, I would have two nickels. Which isn't a lot, but it's weird that it happened twice.
hollowkatt
12-25-2022, 00:59
Lost wolf moment. I hate lost wolves and this is an example of them sucking imo. HK probably gets a lot more scrutiny if he doesn't look really good off interactions (which he presumably did because LW moment).
GG. I liked how people I'd never even heard of before played here (Csargo, Kagemusha, Monty, Renata, Taffy... probably missed someone)
And Pizza, I'm well and truly accustomed to getting pushed, but I'm not going to pretend that you didn't seriously annoy me with the way you treated my slot. You were town for it, I figured you were town for it, but it was frustrating. I think you played your role fine, though.
If I had a nickel for every game I was in with Visor where I received a daykill and used it on mafia, I would have two nickels. Which isn't a lot, but it's weird that it happened twice.
I basically played it as town aligned SK that only got a kill after all the wolves were dead
Congratulations to Hollowkatt and the wolves.
I found this game very frustrating to play. I didn't do great job, and of the I think five games I've completed this year, all of them town roles, this is my fourth loss. (With the fifth game officially declared a draw after the setup got scuffed.) So my attitude and my mental state had pretty much cratered after day four -- if I kept enough of that out of the thread that Kage was still willing to night kill me, I guess that's one thing I did right.
I hope I didn't say anything toxic; please let me know if I did. I did find the game state on day two extremely stressful.
hollowkatt
12-25-2022, 03:18
Congratulations to Hollowkatt and the wolves.
I found this game very frustrating to play. I didn't do great job, and of the I think five games I've completed this year, all of them town roles, this is my fourth loss. (With the fifth game officially declared a draw after the setup got scuffed.) So my attitude and my mental state had pretty much cratered after day four -- if I kept enough of that out of the thread that Kage was still willing to night kill me, I guess that's one thing I did right.
I hope I didn't say anything toxic; please let me know if I did. I did find the game state on day two extremely stressful.
I have no problems with how you played this game, I didn't find you toxic by any definition.
hollowkatt
12-25-2022, 07:45
Askthepizzaguy since you're not in DVC let me say here GG and it was a thrill to play with you again. I got lucky on two fronts here. One that you bought why I thought you were wolfy with your openers based on the previous mash, and two that you died to the desperado shot. Would the wolf team have killed you? probably. But before that would have happened you absolutely had all the thread control, wim, and desire to win this game. It could have gone incredibly bad here.
To the wolf team: I'm sorry I helped kill two of you. I'm glad we got the win. It was tough balancing my desire to kill townies with my desire to look townie enough not to be on the chopping block. I felt dya was a safe push for me for a couple of reasons and that worked out well for us I think. Kage was a lucky guess basically and I voted you at the end of that day purely to make myself look better to Ender.
Of all the players I had to fool consistently Ender scares me the most. Not because I think he's better than "you" but because he's got a LOT of experience with me and I knew I needed to keep being townie, keep trying to solve, keep making good choices to keep on his good side.
Monty I'm sorry if I treated you poorly, especially in F3. It had to be infuriating to know you were right and not being able to get anywhere with it. I had to bite my tongue several times that last day to not saying something dumb to give it all away at the last minute. Even then I slipped when I talked about csargo and why he died. But I felt like I had to engage with Ender there.
I'd much rather have had it be locked votes and hammer you 1 hour in than have this go 47 hours of literally slapping fingers on the keyboard and hoping it was gonna be enough.
The way you turned things on halfway through D3 was amazing and I knew you were going to be the obstacle I had to overcome to win this game.
Raskol thank you for running this. You always run a chill game with interesting setups. I'm glad I had an opportunity to participate.
If I haven't called you out specifically here please don't assume I don't have fond thoughts of you. All of you are amazing players, you've all taught me something in my mafia career, and you've all made games I've been in that much better just by existing.
gg all
thx for hosting rask
nice job bringing it home hk
(lol lost wolves tho)
Gotta love lost wolf.
GG, I played fairly accurately day 2 suspecting 3/4 wolves - Kage/ladd/HK but didn't think Kage and HK were paired, OFC lost wolf.
EnderWiggin
12-25-2022, 15:28
Three times I doubted HK being town, and three times I reconvinced myself that HK wasn't wolf because the interactions.
Sorry town, I let you all down.
WP HK, some luck on your side with the early interactions but you took your advantages and knew how to push them against me. Familiarity works two ways unfortunately =P
Also thanks to Raskol for running. Was good to have another Org game down.
Totally not Taffy
12-25-2022, 23:19
Thanks for the game everybody!
For these kinds of reasons, I never go to DVCs anymore.
People always shit on people for guessing wrong, sometimes they don't even wait that long.
fwiw my experience with this game's deadchat was quite the opposite of what you describe here. I didn't play particularly well, and I'm not anyone's long-term friend (in fact most people had never played with me before) but lots of them talked to me and all of those interactions were friendly, it was all very inclusive ❤️
Kagemusha
12-26-2022, 18:34
Just got back from Christmas road trip. Great job hollowkatt . You nailed it as the lonewolf! Also thanks for playing everyone. It was a pleasure to play with you peeps!
Raskolnikov
12-26-2022, 23:12
Zack: you are next on the org hosting list (unless its Visor or GH :curtain: )... glglgl
vBulletin® v3.7.1, Copyright ©2000-2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.