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I swear no matter the game, you always say I am weird bronana. This is easily the towniest I have been with you, but I am extremely biased, but then again, that chris 17er game isn't a hard bar to jump over :p.
In a roundabout way, I think this makes you kind of susp
IDK you were WAY more excited about playing in the last totalwar game we both towned in (I might be lying and I think you found me towny there while everyone else was calling me weird...)
I don't recall calling U weird tbh
I have just now realized I have been talking to myself with absolutely no activity :stupid:
i feel like exactly the people i would expect to be wolf read pre-rand are the ones people are most concerned about
Kind of towny
I also find Csargo just kind of towny.
vote logic
seems like an obvious wolf
thanks, though obvious wolfy pop in :playingball:
reading Vulgard's Long post responding to ATPG (371 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154761-Casual-december-game?p=2053836921&viewfull=1#post2053836921)) I conclude that I feel like if Ender is mafia, then Vulgard is town, at least I am willing to count on that.
I'm not going to lie - I am a bit concerned about ladd as well for his post about Logic here.
vote logic
seems like an obvious wolf
Same idea as my AOTP concerns, just ignore the part about effort because ladd has barely posted. I don't like the confidence coming into this read, especially since it's a popular take and it feels like an LHF-y target if town. The latter part might be a bit tacked-on and forced in my part, which could lead me to confbiasing the slot, but the first part stands.
Yeah, can't lie though as I do kind of feel this way to elaborate I suppose. I have seen ladd do similar. Also AOTP, nice job XD.
I agree with both of visor's posts
377 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154761-Casual-december-game?p=2053836927&viewfull=1#post2053836927)/380 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154761-Casual-december-game?p=2053836930&viewfull=1#post2053836930)
even for both of the reasons that Visor made those posts.
the part you hate is the part i like
i reckon amy as scum would be more careful in choosing her words and also not breaking the narrative of her posts. It is a weak town read but I have seen town do these sort of last sentences more than wolves, because it is such a thing wolves are paranoid town will wolf read them over tbh
I can... see this thought process. I think boq is town so far, would object to killing.
"I have only made two intentionally wolfy moves so far. Everything else is just me as me as me." translates to inside my brain "actually, there are only two legit reasons to wolf read me rn, and i did that intentionally"
which is something i say too when caught for the wrong reason, as either alignment tbh
so verdict is out
but i giggled tbh!
I feel like caught for the wrong reasons typically refers to wolves.
Okay I am being bothered by semantics lol moving on.
Yo Ender,
Thanks for 398 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154761-Casual-december-game?p=2053836948&viewfull=1#post2053836948) about Logic as I was thinking that exact thing.
Sincerely Cape.
Uh
Kind of towny post otherwise, but Pizza was a hard sell regardless of this post.
Okay but Boq is the towniest player in the game I think.
i was going to scum read you for being overly erratic but now i dont feel like doing it tbh
But like what? :computer:
it's way too early in the game for the amount of wall posts I've seen
Allow me to make that number larger :daisy:
422 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154761-Casual-december-game?p=2053836972&viewfull=1#post2053836972) - lmao ladd
he was actually one of my few villagers while catching up
https://media.giphy.com/media/gSIz6gGLhguOY/giphy.gif
this post has been marked as TMI :stop: :hide:
same with Boq, even though Boq is pretty obvious town.
451 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154761-Casual-december-game?p=2053837001&viewfull=1#post2053837001) - dyachei I just want you to know that I townread you too this game. (kind of unrelated note) Also I read benneh overnight in the hydra game we both towned in and decided u were town, but then i died with nothing to show for it. But hey, killing Sun and Moon was probably easier :D.
idk i think pizza being blindingly and brazenly confident in the amount of worldbuilding he's already been doing less than halfway into the first phase of a game where his postcount approaches that of the rest of the game combined is more villagery than not
I kind of think him listening to Visor was rand>v for ATPG. Anyone else notice that when Visor asked ATPG to talk less, ATPG just kind of did? I say that out loud and now I think the logic is bad behind it, shhhhhhhh.
Seems like you have no real opinion on me either. But yet you felt the need to state that your null read on me = I can die, yet your null read on the other 3 = no opinion.
Is it because you have the impression that I will be some pointless slot of nonsense?
TBH same.
this reads like you know you are unvoting a wolf
level 0 but sure, we can go with that if it gets you a misvote on boq. Sometimes you have to sacrifice someone to out a wolf.
On a sidenote, it would be funny if 2 wolves just put out proper readslists day 1 like logic/luvs did XD.
have you ever considered that you're always weird cape?
Okay that's true
I don't recall calling U weird tbh
eh, again I started backtracking on that because of the totalwar game I remembered but I do recall you having that read on like a couple turbo games, but I guess we haven't played a lot in the grand scheme of things
because cape as town is bad at getting jokes tbh
also because of how he addressed the amy post he had issues with
it is the modus operandi that i have seen cape as town employ more than he does as scum tbh
I have seen Boq literally say this about me many times :p
Also my first froum game ever literally exemplified me not getting a joke immediately into the game
Ah champs, good times
Was hoping logic would pop in with something more interesting than that lol
Tbh cape I waffle between finding you generally townie enough but also finding some of your post construction Wolfy
It's possible that it was just an awkward post and you are just posting villagery in general
We will see
Was hoping logic would pop in with something more interesting than that lol
Yeah same. I am mostly withholding votes since I haven't been keeping track at all and no mod/body has really posted much of anything on VC
cape feeling a lot like that hydra game to me
so that means
Amy
Cape
vulgard
are all light v
Totally not Taffy
12-06-2022, 03:07
And now I can answer Pizza's concerns from earlier in more depth. I feel genuinely scared of making reads now, because I just finished a game where I had 4 villagers as wolfreads and two wolves as towncore. We did end up winning that game, but I almost singlehandedly made us lose it, and it took the presence of another villager who became an IC for us to win. It was by far my worst town performance ever.
I also had really terrible reads in some other recent games, which doesn't help. So, yeah. I do have thoughts, but I'm afraid of expressing them because I don't want to be lolwrong again. My last game was an awful performance, so was the game before that, and I tried to express more confidence in both because people have historically wolfread me for hedging, much like you're doing. But me expressing more confidence just led to me becoming even more lolwrong and pushing the wolves' agenda for them.
Realistically, I suspect you for being so confident in such a major solve, Pizza, because I couldn't imagine being this confident this early. I simply could not. I don't have a single read right now that I would 100% commit to. I had two such reads early into my last game and both were horrendously wrong. You have a world of four already.
Your pushes on players other than myself also rub me the wrong way. The push on Ender especially feels like you're seeing something I can't possibly see. From my perspective, Ender did something that vaguely seemed pockety, I told him half-jokingly that he was trying to pocket an innocent townie, he bounced back. This could've just been banter or a V/V interaction on our part. He could be a villager for it! Or just a villager. But you seem to be reading his behavior there as really wolfy to the point that you see me as a wolf with him (or at least that's how I interpreted your posting about us). It's really hard for me to parse your confidence, even with your explanation just now, and the thought process around me and Ender. I just think you're reading into stuff with Ender that isn't necessarily there.
And of course, if Ender is a wolf, then you're going to have been right, then I'm going to look awful for making this post, then i might get yeeted and feel I deserved it for playing poorly yet again. Always a risk, and not even too unlikely. You could be right and I could be the dumbass for wolfreading you here. I'm just sitting here with my little perspective and my instinct says "this guy could easily be tryhard wolfing here despite saying he wouldn't tryhard. He shouldn't be trying this hard as a villager, he said he wouldn't try hard and villagers care less, especially when they give slank cover like this." But I'm not even sure if this is a good line of thinking.
It's basically that. I can't express a confident read. Because when I do, I ruin games. My ability to find wolves is bad and does not improve. My ability to find town is hit or miss. I sometimes write godly posts, but I can never recognize when, and I do not pursue it when I do. Me being accused of hedging, and you calling it so wolfy, and you putting so much pressure on me for it, it kinda just feels like you're being opportunistic, especially since you're not looking into why I might be hedging. I feel like that should be a consideration.
I'm talking a lot about myself in this post and it's probably not really helping, but I can't formulate my thoughts about you without talking about myself first and explaining why I'm not giving many reads, especially confident reads. I know that the way I'm reacting to my poor performance in the last game is probably not the best (outright not making confident reads because my last ones were wrong), but the inaccuracy of my reads has been consistent enough lately that I'd rather just give thoughts instead of reads, if that makes sense, and hope that these thoughts help other people - presumably with better reads than me - nail wolves.
I'm not sure how I will operate independently, and I probably won't figure it out this game.
I should end this post here, and I am.
Town is allowed to be wrong. You are allowed to be repeatedly wrong. Being wrong is not the same as "ruining the game". If your reads are bad this game, and the rest of us don't help you make better reads, then the resulting loss is on us. Contrary to Asks' throwaway joke about having to find four wolves, it's not actually necessary for all townies to find wolves in order to win. It can be just as important to point out faulty logic in another's reasoning (they might be a wolf or they might be on the wrong path), or to provide helpful meta on someone so another doesn't get lost in a lolwrong tunnel, or to recognise a good case by someone else and support it. It's also not necessary to win in order to enjoy a game. Also look at it like this: if you are never wrong as town, it becomes impossible to play as a wolf.
Whenever you came into MU specchat during chams, several people fell over themselves to get your reads on the games. You are respected. You even got a 3/3 iirc. Don't let a few bad games get you down.
Totally not Taffy
12-06-2022, 03:20
I'm starting to think you are faking those reads. There's no way you have a confident worldview right now and believe it so strongly.
Me thinking this probably makes you town, though.
I think he is faking his reads or overstating them and I think that's more wolfy for Pizza than not. I find his town game contains more moments of clear lack of TMI and his scumgame is just a giant purpose designed mindfuck.
It doesn't matter whether he's faking the reads. His initial read on Ender was premature and almost everything he has brought up is NAI for Ender. But it's early game. Ime Asks juggles people in and out of POE/towncore continuously, just to see how they (and the other players) respond. Rinse, repeat until all the pieces fit.
It's a process very similar to coldreading; you start with something that's just statistically likely and the reactions you get from your audience lead you to the correct answer.
If we're all sussing Pizza we can all agree to yeet him so he doesn't have to face the pain of getting nightkilled if town.
I am not sussing him at this point, but even if I were I think this is a terrible idea, it doesn't matter what order we yeet the wolves in, so on the off chance you're wrong and he's town you should try to find the others first.
Totally not Taffy
12-06-2022, 03:22
There's also another obvious wolfread here. But also I'm not saying it for another 20 hours just in case.
So I thought this entire time that your "but why hasn't Asks noticed this" read was not about Logic but about this one. I think time's up btw.
Totally not Taffy
12-06-2022, 03:24
Vote: Hollowkatt
I am voting you because you've disappeared and also because in my very limited experience playing together, you tend to focus more on social interactions as a wolf and that's the impression I got from you earlier.
Totally not Taffy
12-06-2022, 03:24
Cape90 Are you the same Cape who was in FAM2 and are you Donut Boy in turbos?
Speaking of my reads, I ought to compile them.
I have dya V for her approach to my slot and to the game in general, they're just chillin'. This is the type of read I'm somewhat likely to be wrong about, so I don't want to attribute too much weight to it, but I feel good enough about dya for now.
I also felt good about Csargo when he was posting. The read on him is dropping a bit because of recency bias, but it's still there.
I had a dumb read on Visor/ladd that they were V/V for ladd explaining his wolfread on Logic in a very memeworthy way and Visor V reading him for it immediately, then them entering banter. I felt like that was the type of thing villagers do with each other as they find each other but neither feels like making a show of it.
Ender/Amy/ATPG is a weird group that contains a wolf IMO. I currently think the wolf is most likely ATPG, but I also think that ATPG is the most isolated-in-thread of these players, and I want to respect his reads a bit, which is why the two people he sussed the most openly are also in this grouping. Basically, he's either a wolf pushing town (Ender and Amy) or he's right on at least one of them is the way I see the situation. Not exactly helpful to see it this way because it doesn't allow determining which one to vote, but it does narrow down the focus a bit, I suppose. I currently think ATPG is the wolfiest, but I have some concerns about this belief considering how big of a role he's played so far and how few people have actually talked about him in a meaningful way. Though on the other hand I don't know if him not being talked about in a meaningful way by most players (by meaningful, I mean with actual conclusions in regard to his alignment) makes him town, it could just make him a wolf lol (imagine knowing and applying consistent principles for catching wolves). Kinda tempted to move my vote there, but. Fwiw, if ATPG flips mafia, I would strongly consider clearing Ender and Amy, even though ATPG said he was more than happy to leave distancing spew. And if one of Ender/Amy flips mafia, probably give ATPG some time and see if he dies for it (because by his own admission, he should).
Logic just feels like a slot everyone has silently agreed is mafia and I'm probably okay with yeeting him.
Everyone else can be assumed to be null.
Oh yeah, spooge is a really whatever slot I wouldn't mind yeeting and which I feel has a pretty decent chance of actually flipping wolf. Might go there if we don't go Logic.
Oh yeah, spooge is a really whatever slot I wouldn't mind yeeting and which I feel has a pretty decent chance of actually flipping wolf. Might go there if we don't go Logic.
Main reason I think this is that his reads look weird to me. He has Logic/Vulgard/ATPG as his set of wolfreads, and I think that's a really strange grouping to have as your wolfreads, particularly me/ATPG as I feel like our interactions cannot be perceived as W/W. Spooge, if you read this, please explain that part. If these are all independent wolfreads, then I also think they're weird and I'd like you to explain more.
Main reason I think this is that his reads look weird to me. He has Logic/Vulgard/ATPG as his set of wolfreads, and I think that's a really strange grouping to have as your wolfreads, particularly me/ATPG as I feel like our interactions cannot be perceived as W/W. Spooge, if you read this, please explain that part. If these are all independent wolfreads, then I also think they're weird and I'd like you to explain more.
Also Logic/Vulgard/ATPG feels like the exact group of susses to cover one's bases in this gamestate but doesn't really make sense to me as simultaneous thoughts, which is why I'm requesting an explanation.
Totally not Taffy
12-06-2022, 03:42
Askthepizzaguy I think Boquise is town. Logic is either town or being hard bussed right now. Why has Renata not posted yet?
Those are my only other relevant thoughts rn.
Taffy, I read your post and I've never seen that take before. I think I like it, I'm just typically incapable of not feeling rather guilty for poor play and I always feel the need to be apologetic even if the other players wouldn't genuinely dislike me or anything for how I played. Therefore I try not to make bad plays in the first place, and you can see how that turns into a cycle of not wanting to mess up and consequently never wanting to be too confident.
You're right on the money, though, if I had a sick towngame then I guess my wolfgame would suffer, haha. I appreciate the encouragement, and yeah, I'm trying not to be a potato and actually give reads. Hopefully they're better than my last ones, lol.
Vote: Hollowkatt
I am voting you because you've disappeared and also because in my very limited experience playing together, you tend to focus more on social interactions as a wolf and that's the impression I got from you earlier.
Are you dissatisfied with the main suspicions being thrown around?
Ampharos
12-06-2022, 03:46
I'm trying not to be a potato and actually give reads
couldn't be me
Ampharos
12-06-2022, 03:49
Askthepizzaguy I think Boquise is town. Logic is either town or being hard bussed right now. Why has Renata not posted yet?
Those are my only other relevant thoughts rn.
independent of gamestate, what's your read on logic
Cape90 Are you the same Cape who was in FAM2 and are you Donut Boy in turbos?
Yes and yes. Literally both.
I remember you, I very much wolfread you in FAM2 lol
I think I was extremely towny in FAM 2 but dead cop obviously had red check on me :wall:
i mean day 2 of that game was a mess in general
Taffy to me reads as town though this game, but I wasn't too sure until 511 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154761-Casual-december-game?p=2053837062&viewfull=1#post2053837062) but because of that, it is just a lean
It's ok just rand with me and keep me alive. I have a 100% winrate for regular games where I'm alive D2, despite being decidedly incompetent most of the time. And if we lose you can say you were part of breaking that streak, which is perhaps even more satisfying!
...now as soon as Ender is done laughing and picks himself up off the floor he can tell you the numbers behind that percentage :laugh4:
maybe for this too since it is a bit on the nose if Taffy is wolf, unless there are 3ps this game
hollowkatt
12-06-2022, 04:15
Town
Cape
Hollowkatt
Ampharos
Little Bit Towny
Mont
Visor
Blade
Meh
Sorta Wolfy
Taffy
Quite Wolfy
Logic
Pizza
Vulgard
I have read all the posts, these are my reads. Goodbye.
why
Vote: Hollowkatt
I am voting you because you've disappeared and also because in my very limited experience playing together, you tend to focus more on social interactions as a wolf and that's the impression I got from you earlier.
I can get behind this.
Vote:Hollowkatt
hollowkatt
12-06-2022, 04:35
Vote: Hollowkatt
I am voting you because you've disappeared and also because in my very limited experience playing together, you tend to focus more on social interactions as a wolf and that's the impression I got from you earlier.
disappeared, yeah...
went to sleep, woke up at 9am late for a meeting. meeting till 11am
ran errands from 11:30 to 1pm
continued my work day till 5:30pm, had a few projects to deploy today.
went to dinner with the family, came home, put kiddo to bed (it's a process lol)
played some video games.
now I'm here.
Next time I'll be sure to not have a real life going on so that I don't "disappear".
Also luv2 is a wolf.
vote: luv2spooge
hollowkatt
12-06-2022, 04:44
But I probably think this because I relate. I mean. You're doing this to me right now.
And before you accuse me of TMIng you town or something, you can be mafia doing this. I currently think you're town but that push is kinda eh upon revisiting the reasoning. I think Ender could've said that as town.
the thing about pizza I'm noticing in this game is he is almost entirely relying on mafia theory rather than exploring why players have said the things they've said. For example when he suses Ampharos it's about "wolfy phrasing" not necessarily about what Ampharos was talking about.
Likewise with Ender it is more about "what would a wolf do in this situation" not "why is Ender doing what he is doing" and on D1 that's not a super bad approach to the game. Aim a wide net and hope to catch something in it. As the game progresses though it starts to lose effectiveness.
I think Pizza can do this as town or wolf and unfortunately there aren't really context clues to indicate which team he's playing for. If he's town the wolves are likely laying low, trying to skate through today and working on a plan to eliminate him at night.
If he's a wolf the rest of the wolves are staying out of his way and letting him run the show. I think the best I'm going to do is judge him on results. Where does he vote, how do the wagons he's on flip, how do the wagons he is not on, or not interested in flip, that kind of thing.
hollowkatt
12-06-2022, 05:44
Enderwiggin immediately getting flustered over mild early game wolf reads, Vulgard doing the same on even less pressure, Amy doing half the passive aggressive wolf tells, and spooge having no process on their leans list with Amy as a top townie.
Followed by most of the day being wolfy banter between most of these, leads me to believe there are multiple wolves engaged in the Defense strategy contained within these names.
I'm gonna be the guy who asks: what wolfy banter, and if they're already playing defense isn't the game basically about "sheep pizza, win"? because I'm leery that it can possibly be that easy.
hollowkatt
12-06-2022, 06:00
I'm starting to think you are faking those reads. There's no way you have a confident worldview right now and believe it so strongly.
Me thinking this probably makes you town, though.
can you walk me through how you get there?
hollowkatt
12-06-2022, 06:16
anyways goodnight, I'm about to disappear again
I just spent the last 14 hours playing a 24-year-old Video game, AMA
Anyway, to more relevant thoughts, Visor voting for me is the only one I would call an indictment.
There are a handful of people that can soulread me correctly every time, and visor is on that list.
Ladd I think should be able to read me correctly by now, but I can forgive him at this point.
Pizza having sus but not committing to it is about right for him, so I'm giving him a day pass (as if I could be the pebble that brings down a mountain on him)
Dya being comfortable? on day 1 I think is their wolfy meta.
TLDR
After I flip villager, nuke visor.
Vote: Visor
Logic just feels like a slot everyone has silently agreed is mafia and I'm probably okay with yeeting him.
This reads to me like a wolfy "don't rock the boat and yeet a villager that no one will be upset to lose.
This reads to me like a wolfy "don't rock the boat and yeet a villager that no one will be upset to lose.
As in, "I have no provided no read on Logic myself, but I want to be able to rescind something of the wind starts blowing the other way
FoS: Vulgard
Askthepizzaguy I think Boquise is town. Logic is either town or being hard bussed right now. Why has Renata not posted yet?
Those are my only other relevant thoughts rn.
I find this post important.
I'm not sure what alignment it points taffy towards, but I strongly think this will be clearing or damning in the future
I just spent the last 14 hours playing a 24-year-old Video game, AMA
Anyway, to more relevant thoughts, Visor voting for me is the only one I would call an indictment.
There are a handful of people that can soulread me correctly every time, and visor is on that list.
Ladd I think should be able to read me correctly by now, but I can forgive him at this point.
Pizza having sus but not committing to it is about right for him, so I'm giving him a day pass (as if I could be the pebble that brings down a mountain on him)
Dya being comfortable? on day 1 I think is their wolfy meta.
TLDR
After I flip villager, nuke visor.
Vote: Visor
I could see dya, don't get visor tho. I don't know anything about town dya though, I don't think
I could see dya, don't get visor tho. I don't know anything about town dya though, I don't think
The visor meta is very specific in how they are treating my slot. I can consistently solve a couple of other players in the same manner.
If I gotta die first to prove the point, then by all means, yeet me and follow up with visor. I'm telling you, he's not treating me like he's suspicious of me, he's treating me like he knows I'm an easy yeet.
The visor meta is very specific in how they are treating my slot. I can consistently solve a couple of other players in the same manner.
If I gotta die first to prove the point, then by all means, yeet me and follow up with visor. I'm telling you, he's not treating me like he's suspicious of me, he's treating me like he knows I'm an easy yeet.
How do you think Visor is treating your slot?
How do you think Visor is treating your slot?
Out of game Visor: "logic is super easy to read. I don't think I've ever gotten him wrong.
In game visor: "Logic obvious wolf"
When I'm villaging, if visor calls me scum with certaity, he's scum himself. I say this with confidence, because I don't think I've ever been wrong in this before. (Sample size, 5? games)
I keep leaving the end quote off my messages and it's irking me.
You all know what I mean.
Visor + who then? and why doesn't visor just let you sink naturally? Which seemed highly possible earlier imo.
Visor + who then? and why doesn't visor just let you sink naturally? Which seemed highly possible earlier imo.
I am curious as to what Ladd saw as wolfy in the handful of posts they pinged as such, but other than agreeing with visor, I don't see a pairing there.
From what I've read, Amy is kinda stilted, but I (as town) once hard defended wolf Amy only to get NKed for my trouble. So I'm not counting on my ability to read Amy as an asset.
Outside of that, I could see a couple of people fitting in with visor, but I haven't eliminated anyone as a partner, which should be my next task, but I'm going to backread while I should be going to sleep.
If I disappear, this time it's not because of Baldur's Gate.
EnderWiggin
12-06-2022, 08:16
No thought on me despite me being one of the loudest proponents of pushing you Logic?
Ampharos
12-06-2022, 08:32
i have an immediate concern w/ how logic's reentered the thread but i'm gonna sit on it for a bit to see if it's self-correcting
mostly posting this because it's fun to watch logic squirm
can you walk me through how you get there?
I wrote a big wallpost about it not long after that post.
Logic, what's your opinion on Spooge? That's my current alternative to your wagon.
i have an immediate concern w/ how logic's reentered the thread but i'm gonna sit on it for a bit to see if it's self-correcting
mostly posting this because it's fun to watch logic squirm
I think you need to post that more quickly than you might think.
Raskolnikov
12-06-2022, 10:12
The following should be the current tally:
Visor (2): Montmo, Logic
HK (2): Taffy, Csargo
Luv2spooge (1): HK
ATPG (1): luv2spooge
Ender (1): ATPG
Logic (5): Amy, Ender, Vulgard, Ladd, Visor
Renata (1): Kagemusha
Kage (1): Boquise
Ampharos
12-06-2022, 10:58
I think you need to post that more quickly than you might think.
yeah ok fine
i don't like how logic went straight to "visor is a wolf" without even trying to engage with the read on him
if someone i thought had a really good read on me (e.g. dya) was incorrectly wolfreading me, i'd do everything in my power to figure out where the read is coming from and whether it has a good foundation before i'd write them off as a wolf. not once in my life have i been so confident in someone else's amy-reading abilities as to jump straight to "if X is wrong on my alignment, they're wolfing" without any intermediary steps
EnderWiggin
12-06-2022, 11:22
I think Logic is fully in wolf meta.
But I also am noting no push back against the wagon, like almost zilch.
EnderWiggin
12-06-2022, 11:23
Also beyond that point Amy, Logic ignoring me entirely in his reactions to the push feels off.
luvs2spooge
12-06-2022, 11:28
I wrote a big wallpost about it not long after that post.
Logic, what's your opinion on Spooge? That's my current alternative to your wagon.
Why do you want to eliminate Spooge?
luvs2spooge
12-06-2022, 11:29
Btw I am totally cool with Logic dying. Imagine my vote being there.
Why do you want to eliminate Spooge?
I said it earlier and even asked you directly, but I feel like your wolfreads of me/Pizza/Logic are incongruent with each other. Mind explaining them a bit?
luvs2spooge
12-06-2022, 11:32
Oh yeah, spooge is a really whatever slot I wouldn't mind yeeting and which I feel has a pretty decent chance of actually flipping wolf. Might go there if we don't go Logic.
Lmao this is such a bad post for you Vulgard. You are better than this my friend.
Main reason I think this is that his reads look weird to me. He has Logic/Vulgard/ATPG as his set of wolfreads, and I think that's a really strange grouping to have as your wolfreads, particularly me/ATPG as I feel like our interactions cannot be perceived as W/W. Spooge, if you read this, please explain that part. If these are all independent wolfreads, then I also think they're weird and I'd like you to explain more.
Vulgard, surely you aren't the sort of person that presumes that every readslist is consciously crafted to account for anti-worlds?
Snark free answer - I have my scumreads, I don't have worlds.
Also Logic/Vulgard/ATPG feels like the exact group of susses to cover one's bases in this gamestate but doesn't really make sense to me as simultaneous thoughts, which is why I'm requesting an explanation.
If I am so clever at wolfing and carefully plucking out perfect groups of susses to cover bases then you're basically fucked cuz I'm too good for you to get over anyway so sucks to be you.
luvs2spooge
12-06-2022, 11:33
why
Well you see, I read posts and I determined that on the sum of the posts that I read these were the most likely alignments for each player.
luvs2spooge
12-06-2022, 11:34
disappeared, yeah...
went to sleep, woke up at 9am late for a meeting. meeting till 11am
ran errands from 11:30 to 1pm
continued my work day till 5:30pm, had a few projects to deploy today.
went to dinner with the family, came home, put kiddo to bed (it's a process lol)
played some video games.
now I'm here.
Next time I'll be sure to not have a real life going on so that I don't "disappear".
Also luv2 is a wolf.
vote: luv2spooge
No, I am not. And you are town. And you are an easy read. So don't vote me just because you're an easy read Hollowkatt.
luvs2spooge
12-06-2022, 11:35
I said it earlier and even asked you directly, but I feel like your wolfreads of me/Pizza/Logic are incongruent with each other. Mind explaining them a bit?
I have explained Pizza sus at length. You and Logic just have weird reads that make no sense to me and feel like reachy wolves trying to scumread NAI stuff instead of read things with any kind of discretion.
Idk how to make reads lol.
luvs2spooge
12-06-2022, 11:40
Idk how to make reads lol.
You are a good town player who is obvious to me when you are town because your reads are coherent, and you read things that are alignment indicative in a similar way to me. In this game your reads are not that.
luvs2spooge
12-06-2022, 11:42
Where is everyone I am here to fux.
You are a good town player who is obvious to me when you are town because your reads are coherent, and you read things that are alignment indicative in a similar way to me. In this game your reads are not that.
Wait, do I know you?
I have explained Pizza sus at length. You and Logic just have weird reads that make no sense to me and feel like reachy wolves trying to scumread NAI stuff instead of read things with any kind of discretion.
If you think my reads are generally good and my process is similar to yours, I would like you to tell me which reads of mine don't seem like they make sense.
If I am so clever at wolfing and carefully plucking out perfect groups of susses to cover bases then you're basically fucked cuz I'm too good for you to get over anyway so sucks to be you.
Should probably note that I found this part towny.
luvs2spooge
12-06-2022, 11:49
Wait, do I know you?
Obviously. That comment would make not much sense if you didn't.
yeah ok fine
i don't like how logic went straight to "visor is a wolf" without even trying to engage with the read on him
if someone i thought had a really good read on me (e.g. dya) was incorrectly wolfreading me, i'd do everything in my power to figure out where the read is coming from and whether it has a good foundation before i'd write them off as a wolf. not once in my life have i been so confident in someone else's amy-reading abilities as to jump straight to "if X is wrong on my alignment, they're wolfing" without any intermediary steps
I'll probably respect it if Logic flips town because he seems really confident in it and my townread on Visor has pretty shaky reasoning. Idk if I would follow it right now, though.
luvs2spooge
12-06-2022, 11:51
I actually know everyone in this game quite well except like 3 of you.
luvs2spooge
12-06-2022, 11:51
I'll probably respect it if Logic flips town because he seems really confident in it and my townread on Visor has pretty shaky reasoning. Idk if I would follow it right now, though.
Who is confidently reading Logic? Because they are mafia lol.
Who is confidently reading Logic? Because they are mafia lol.
No, I meant that Logic seems really confident in Visor being mafia for the way he treated and apparently misread Logic. This is the sort of thing I'm willing to give plenty of weight if Logic is town.
No, I meant that Logic seems really confident in Visor being mafia for the way he treated and apparently misread Logic. This is the sort of thing I'm willing to give plenty of weight if Logic is town.
Although there was at least one person confidently reading Logic and it was ladd. He came in and basically called a lot of Logic's posts wolfy while dropping a vote on him.
vote logic
seems like an obvious wolf
sure thing
wolfy post
wolfy post
wolfy post
wolfy post
wolfy post
wolfy post
This doesn't quote the embedded posts properly, but you can at least jump to them.
Do you think Visor and Ladd could be W/W for how they've interacted?
luvs2spooge
12-06-2022, 11:55
Although there was at least one person confidently reading Logic and it was ladd. He came in and basically called a lot of Logic's posts wolfy while dropping a vote on him.
I meant confidently townreading him. I thought that was what you were saying.
Confidently wolfreading Logic is towny. Because Logic is very wolfy.
luvs2spooge
12-06-2022, 11:56
This doesn't quote the embedded posts properly, but you can at least jump to them.
Do you think Visor and Ladd could be W/W for how they've interacted?
You know the drill with Ladd. If Logic is town we kill Ladd. If Logic is mafia the mafia kill Ladd. Either way Ladd is already dead. Long live Ladd.
The only person I remember trying to defend Logic is Boquise. He didn't do it confidently, but he definitely did try to change the wagon.
luvs2spooge
12-06-2022, 11:59
Look I know it might be all like "wow even this random guy thinks Logic is mafia" too many people suspect Logic. This guy is sus. Opportunistic. Blah blah blah.
But like, Logic has been wolfy pretty much since their opening post and has not stopped being wolfy. Ladd is not likely to bus Logic that bluntly because it gives a teammate zero out. If Ladd is town and wasn't super sure he would not post that way. So I am treating them as hard different.
If there is anyone that might be a teammate of Logic's that's kinda being a bit meh about the whole Logic shit it's either Pizza or Visor. I have had a fair few moments of reading Visor's content where I was a little bit perturbed. But on the whole he's better than most.
My last readslist remains valid. I have no updates to the reads within it.
luvs2spooge
12-06-2022, 12:01
The only person I remember trying to defend Logic is Boquise. He didn't do it confidently, but he definitely did try to change the wagon.
Yes and I think Boq has been kinda wolfy. As per my readslist.
I am super sketch on you. Like, looking at the wolf reads of a town and attacking them for not making sense as a world together is such a typical reach for mafia to make on town I just am probs gonna suspect you until you single handedly pelt a mafia because of it frankly. Good luck friend!
The only person I remember trying to defend Logic is Boquise. He didn't do it confidently, but he definitely did try to change the wagon.
Nah. I did not try to change the wagon tbh
I am just giving my perspective and I find it more useful to vote elsewhere.
luvs2spooge
12-06-2022, 12:02
I really feel it should be obvious who I am by now but maybe I'm just not as important as I thought I was.
Ampharos
12-06-2022, 12:02
logic's super pessimistic about his wolf game, there's definitely a world where w!logic gets hard discouraged after being the thread's First Big Wolfread tm and just asks to be turbobussed
at which point i think the least logic-aligned person would probably be boquise, who i otherwise think looks like the obvious level 0 logic partner lmao
Also Vulgard, weird that you think so, given your recent experiences you have described tbh
You should know that having nuance and also applying old burns to a read tbh
Yes and I think Boq has been kinda wolfy. As per my readslist.
I am super sketch on you. Like, looking at the wolf reads of a town and attacking them for not making sense as a world together is such a typical reach for mafia to make on town I just am probs gonna suspect you until you single handedly pelt a mafia because of it frankly. Good luck friend!
I honestly get it, so fair enough.
I'm never going to single-handedly pelt a mafia, though. Unless it's Pizza, then I think I deserve the credit.
Ampharos
12-06-2022, 12:03
I really feel it should be obvious who I am by now but maybe I'm just not as important as I thought I was.
unless this is manti i have no fucking idea
and i kinda wanna live in the fantasy world where you are simply spooge
EnderWiggin
12-06-2022, 12:03
Luvs definitely knows a lot of us. I am trying to not focus on trying to work out who they are.
Also Vulgard, weird that you think so, given your recent experiences you have described tbh
You should know that having nuance and also applying old burns to a read tbh
I'm just bringing this up, I don't actually have a read on you.
EnderWiggin
12-06-2022, 12:04
I really feel it should be obvious who I am by now but maybe I'm just not as important as I thought I was.
In my defense I am terrible at working out who people are.
Ampharos
12-06-2022, 12:05
i haven't even worked out who i am yet
i haven't even worked out who i am yet
i haven't even worked out how i am yet
One day we will come to a mafia world where sharing nuanced thought about a player is not considered wolfy, but that day isn't today tbh
So until then, I will return to be level 0 and join in with the pitchfork tbh
EnderWiggin
12-06-2022, 12:06
i haven't even worked out how i am yet
I haven't even worked out where I am yet.
I'm just bringing this up, I don't actually have a read on you.
I am not talking about reads. I am countering your claim tbh
I am not talking about reads. I am countering your claim tbh
Oh yeah. Yup, I guess you have a point that you weren't like "DO NOT VOTE LOGIC HE TOWN." I was referring to you doing that indirectly by presenting your thought but it feels like a reach now that I'm looking at it again.
Ngl if Logic's town we wasted this entire day phase.
luvs2spooge
12-06-2022, 12:09
One day we will come to a mafia world where sharing nuanced thought about a player is not considered wolfy, but that day isn't today tbh
So until then, I will return to be level 0 and join in with the pitchfork tbh
I scumread you because you're wolfy. I dunno about any of dem reads.
Ampharos
12-06-2022, 12:10
kinda like boq's responses to vulgard here
luvs2spooge
12-06-2022, 12:11
Ngl if Logic's town we wasted this entire day phase.
No if Logic is town we could wolf Ladd lol.
luvs2spooge
12-06-2022, 12:11
kinda like boq's responses to vulgard here
Wolf Boq is nothing if not aggro at defending himself from accurate suspicion.
Ampharos
12-06-2022, 12:14
i don't think this is particularly aggro for boq
that's why i like the responses
luvs2spooge
12-06-2022, 12:14
i don't think this is particularly aggro for boq
that's why i like the responses
Is that sooooo.
No if Logic is town we could wolf Ladd lol.
I guess? It feels kinda weird to just insta punt him if Logic's town but I guess the fact ladd was like "Logic wolfy die" while refusing to elaborate much and expressing a lot of confidence would reflect him low-effort killing a villager which he usually doesn't do as town.
I'm not doing nothing else though?
You are probably town for keep driving this point when i have even before this discussion happened walked back on the FoS tbh
luvs2spooge
12-06-2022, 12:15
I guess? It feels kinda weird to just insta punt him if Logic's town but I guess the fact ladd was like "Logic wolfy die" while refusing to elaborate much and expressing a lot of confidence would reflect him low-effort killing a villager which he usually doesn't do as town.
agreed
yikes pal
Visor/Kagemusha slightly paired tbh
my level 69 read is that this is too blatant a "LOOK AT ME I'M PARTNERED WITH LOGIC" post to actually be partnered with logic
Yes tbh
this reads like you know you are unvoting a wolf
That's weird considering I have not voted Logic thus I cannot unvote him tbh
Logic is wolfy, the last time I thought so he was town. The fact that everyone else thinks he is wolfy makes me unsure tbh
Quick notice that neither Luv or Visor have asked me why I am voting Kage tbh
luvs2spooge
12-06-2022, 12:20
Quick notice that neither Luv or Visor have asked me why I am voting Kage tbh
y u do
Wolf Boq is nothing if not aggro at defending himself from accurate suspicion.
Me being sarcastic is not being aggressive tbh
Do you want me to share games where I am town and react to being scum read?
Also I don't remember playing with you before tbh
luvs2spooge
12-06-2022, 12:21
Me being sarcastic is not being aggressive tbh
Do you want me to share games where I am town and react to being scum read?
Also I don't remember playing with you before tbh
lol
y u do
Too late smh tbh
I will go on lunch now. Future Boq will return to talk about it before eod
luvs2spooge
12-06-2022, 12:22
What's funny tbh?
I can't say it without outing myself and I am enjoying alting too much.
Is that sooooo.
Yeh i don't really feel aggro rn tbh
I can't say it without outing myself and I am enjoying alting too much.
Oh you are Dale
luvs2spooge
12-06-2022, 12:23
ok replace aggro with "vigorously self defensive with mild omgus tendency"
luvs2spooge
12-06-2022, 12:24
Oh you are Dale
God no. If I was Dale I'd be tunneling Hollowkatt.
i have an immediate concern w/ how logic's reentered the thread but i'm gonna sit on it for a bit to see if it's self-correcting
mostly posting this because it's fun to watch logic squirm
I don't really think his pop in was bad it was just okay. seen worse
I think Logic is fully in wolf meta.
But I also am noting no push back against the wagon, like almost zilch.
So I have 0 meta knowledge of Logic. What do he do as town vs mafia?
i think HK is fully in town meta. Good to see :D
This reads to me like a wolfy "don't rock the boat and yeet a villager that no one will be upset to lose.
I do at least agree with not liking the Vulgard quote Logic brings up here
Logic just feels like a slot everyone has silently agreed is mafia and I'm probably okay with yeeting him.
luvs2spooge
12-06-2022, 12:32
i think HK is fully in town meta. Good to see :D
Yes. HK is obvious town. Good read. You're also obvious town.
This doesn't quote the embedded posts properly, but you can at least jump to them.
Do you think Visor and Ladd could be W/W for how they've interacted?
guessing u mean ladd/logic :laugh:
I think it's certainly possible, I wouldn't just put it past ladd. Literally suspected in a decent position to bus if that's what ladd really wanted to do there if they are wolf.
I really feel it should be obvious who I am by now but maybe I'm just not as important as I thought I was.
nope
no idea
too tired to really read into that
logic's super pessimistic about his wolf game, there's definitely a world where w!logic gets hard discouraged after being the thread's First Big Wolfread tm and just asks to be turbobussed
at which point i think the least logic-aligned person would probably be boquise, who i otherwise think looks like the obvious level 0 logic partner lmao
I will... think on this though. There are raisins why I am skeptical to jump to that conclusion exactly
Yes. HK is obvious town. Good read. You're also obvious town.
thanks, though I have 0 idea about you, at least through a casual skim of the thread versus actually deep diving.
No if Logic is town we could wolf Ladd lol.
your talking to a wolf probably :laugh:. Nothing Vulgard has done so far has moved me off the needle from my initial read on him, it really almost feels too easy to be him.
guessing u mean ladd/logic :laugh:
I think it's certainly possible, I wouldn't just put it past ladd. Literally suspected in a decent position to bus if that's what ladd really wanted to do there if they are wolf.
No, I did mean Visor/Ladd.
I have decided luvs2spooge is town. Who are they? I know people who they are not I suppose.
Also Boq's recentish postings haven't been great, but idk I think they at least ticked off checkboxes on how I expected town Boq to read me.
he was actually one of my few villagers while catching up
https://media.giphy.com/media/gSIz6gGLhguOY/giphy.gif
I am guessing this
and
maybe? but they only really interacted that 1 time besides visor i think telling ladd how to post gifs?
I think Visor is townier then ladd, though I suppose not a hard task
Kind of liked their Csargo post and subsequent read on them. Had villagers suspect me for similar things. Question at Kage was towny since that player is super null as they haven't done too much. Yeah not that towny, but it's more then ladd ig.
Also your post really did not reflect on this interaction Vulgard, you quoted the susp on Logic.
EnderWiggin
12-06-2022, 12:59
So I have 0 meta knowledge of Logic. What do he do as town vs mafia?
As both alignments he doesn't play super high intensity so low posting is kinda expected but
As town he has, for lack of a better term, a thread of logic through his posts. I don't necessarily agree/vibe with the solving but you read post to post and you're like yes, this tracks. He also gets into a thread with more ease, a little jokey at first before getting into solving.
As wolf he struggles much more with 'fitting' in thread and feels awkward trying to get involved. He also feels more required to out reads early.
I haven't seen his wolf game for a few years, but from what I saw last year the town game still fits the mental module I have for him, which makes me moderately confident that the wolf game fitting my model here still vibes.
EnderWiggin
12-06-2022, 13:00
Mental model*
I have no idea how that autocorrected to module o.O
Quick notice that neither Luv or Visor have asked me why I am voting Kage tbh
Idk bronana it's fairly obvious that you can vote him for not having much to say about the game and just posting 'offtopic' but he's an old-school orger and first game in years so it doesn't mean anything for me tbh
Raskolnikov
12-06-2022, 13:21
Visor (2): Montmo, Logic
HK (2): Taffy, Csargo
Luv2spooge (1): HK
ATPG (1): luv2spooge
Ender (1): ATPG
Logic (5): Amy, Ender, Vulgard, Ladd, Visor
Renata (1): Kagemusha
Kage (1): Boquise
EOD in a bit less than 12 hours. (7 PM EST)
Idk bronana it's fairly obvious that you can vote him for not having much to say about the game and just posting 'offtopic' but he's an old-school orger and first game in years so it doesn't mean anything for me tbh
You're wrong tho tbh
I have decided luvs2spooge is town. Who are they? I know people who they are not I suppose.
Also Boq's recentish postings haven't been great, but idk I think they at least ticked off checkboxes on how I expected town Boq to read me.
Can you elaborate on why you believe Boq's recent posting has been poor?
Totally not Taffy
12-06-2022, 14:12
Are you dissatisfied with the main suspicions being thrown around?
I have a dislike of going with consensus especially D1 because it often lands on town and it provides easy cover for wolves. If we're all throwing a lot of reads/observations around, then they are forced to do so as well and the D5 conversation can be better than "you voted Logic - well so did you - yes but my reasons were more genuine than your reasons".
EnderWiggin
12-06-2022, 14:13
Taffy is moderately likely town unless I'm misreading my own notes on her play.
EnderWiggin
12-06-2022, 14:14
The caveat is that I was fooled by her team like 2 games ago so she may have a better read on how to fool me than most rn.
Totally not Taffy
12-06-2022, 14:17
independent of gamestate, what's your read on logic
At the start of the game I felt like Logic was trying too hard to fit in with the "whoo let's do all the wolf tells" game that was going. Post #133 specifically gave me that impression, and I think others thought the same because the flow of the thread suddenly came to a halt at that time until Cape obliviously broke the silence. Logic's early reads list contained nothing surprising so I don't know why he felt the need to make it at that time. However, he has since posted very much like I'd expect a town in his position to post. I have never played with Logic before, nor read any of his games, so I don't know how good a wolf he is.
Totally not Taffy
12-06-2022, 14:21
Yes and yes. Literally both.
I remember you, I very much wolfread you in FAM2 lol
You were one of the few people suspecting me who talked to me rather than about me and I really appreciated that at the time. You're being a lot less tunnelly this game than I would have expected. How do you feel you've evolved as a player in the months between?
Totally not Taffy
12-06-2022, 14:22
Out of game Visor: "logic is super easy to read. I don't think I've ever gotten him wrong.
In game visor: "Logic obvious wolf"
When I'm villaging, if visor calls me scum with certaity, he's scum himself. I say this with confidence, because I don't think I've ever been wrong in this before. (Sample size, 5? games)
Are there other players in this game who you think should know about Visor being good at reading you?
Totally not Taffy
12-06-2022, 14:23
Also luv2 is a wolf.
vote: luv2spooge
Is this based on more than that he's putting you as a top town and you feel you haven't earned that spot yet so he must have tmi?
Totally not Taffy
12-06-2022, 14:26
I think Logic is fully in wolf meta.
But I also am noting no push back against the wagon, like almost zilch.
This is what I was referring to when I said Logic is either town or being bussed. And it would make sense in a game with a lot of strong town that if one of your team gets caught in an unfortunate start that you'd rather let them go and try to get some towncred than that you'd risk losing two members.
Totally not Taffy
12-06-2022, 14:28
What's funny tbh?
It's obviously not Dale. If Spooge is who I think it is then we've played exactly one game together that also had at least two other players who are here.
I like Totally not Taffy's posting right now, they can be town.
Taffy is moderately likely town unless I'm misreading my own notes on her play.
Can you compile your reads for me real quick, please?
EnderWiggin
12-06-2022, 14:33
Can you compile your reads for me real quick, please?
Given I'm halfway to sleep right now unfortunately not. I don't know how much of it I remember off the top of my head.
Taffy town, Logic wolf, Amy maybe town, Vul maybe town, Pizza ?????????????????????
Totally not Taffy
12-06-2022, 14:33
Fwiw, if ATPG flips mafia, I would strongly consider clearing Ender and Amy, even though ATPG said he was more than happy to leave distancing spew. And if one of Ender/Amy flips mafia, probably give ATPG some time and see if he dies for it (because by his own admission, he should).
I disagree with this, Ender's scumread on Asks was equally premature and based on stuff he should know is NAI as I think Asks' read on Ender is. They could both be wrong town, or it could be distancing since, if Asks is a wolf, he can't expect to endgame so he needs to do that right from the start.
EnderWiggin
12-06-2022, 14:34
Nothing can ever truly unpair me and Pizza. We have done some epic distancing in the past.
Given I'm halfway to sleep right now unfortunately not. I don't know how much of it I remember off the top of my head.
Taffy town, Logic wolf, Amy maybe town, Vul maybe town, Pizza ?????????????????????
Why do you have me as town and why did your mind about ATPG change? I thought you had him as a wolf earlier, or was I misunderstanding?
EnderWiggin
12-06-2022, 14:39
Why do you have me as town and why did your mind about ATPG change? I thought you had him as a wolf earlier, or was I misunderstanding?
I had him as wolf then agreed my take that leaned him wolf was uncharitable and dropped it since I rail about others using that read.
I had you as town fairly early? The whole "Logic towny... wait no wolf?" Bit
I wish I knew how to read ender but I always get him wrong when I try
I also think pizza is firmly in both metas rn. He hasn't done anything I think is strictly villagery or strictly wolfy
Totally not Taffy
12-06-2022, 14:44
Ender, did I miss you telling us who the second obvious wolf was at the start?
EnderWiggin
12-06-2022, 14:46
I wish I knew how to read ender but I always get him wrong when I try
I also think pizza is firmly in both metas rn. He hasn't done anything I think is strictly villagery or strictly wolfy
To be fair there's not many who can read me well consistently.
What is your gth take on me?
EnderWiggin
12-06-2022, 14:46
Ender, did I miss you telling us who the second obvious wolf was at the start?
Yes
To be fair there's not many who can read me well consistently.
What is your gth take on me?
I still have you as null. I see some similarities to the TS game but I think they're easy enough to fake as a wolf. I do better reading you off of spew
Askthepizzaguy
12-06-2022, 15:11
Unvote
I need to spend lots of hours doing more analysis but right now it's prepping dinner, dinner, kids and family time, kiddo bedtime, and then my schedule is still booked solid until deadline.
Everything has to be done overnight for me, please excuse me I gotta be not here and not thinking about the game.
I don't even know what's happening in the game so it's going to take hours to reconnect and reformulate leans.
Couldn't follow through, hope you all have this in my absence.
Ngl if Logic's town we wasted this entire day phase.
If Logic's town we just yeet visor for funsies. prob dya as well.
If Logic's town we just yeet visor for funsies. prob dya as well.
Why them?
Why them?
I just spent the last 14 hours playing a 24-year-old Video game, AMA
Anyway, to more relevant thoughts, Visor voting for me is the only one I would call an indictment.
There are a handful of people that can soulread me correctly every time, and visor is on that list.
Ladd I think should be able to read me correctly by now, but I can forgive him at this point.
Pizza having sus but not committing to it is about right for him, so I'm giving him a day pass (as if I could be the pebble that brings down a mountain on him)
Dya being comfortable? on day 1 I think is their wolfy meta.
TLDR
After I flip villager, nuke visor.
Vote: Visor
i feel like exactly the people i would expect to be wolf read pre-rand are the ones people are most concerned about
just me being simple, but I'm okay with it
I think visor/dya are town currently and logic is just a woof tbh
I also wonder why pizza just ignored(?) Logic for the most part and didn't put them on their woof leans
I wrote a big wallpost about it not long after that post.
Logic, what's your opinion on Spooge? That's my current alternative to your wagon.
Spooge had a single post that pinged me as scummy, but has not made an impact on me otherwise.
This is what I was referring to when I said Logic is either town or being bussed. And it would make sense in a game with a lot of strong town that if one of your team gets caught in an unfortunate start that you'd rather let them go and try to get some towncred than that you'd risk losing two members.
Ok, so if I'm being bussed, who do you think are most likely my partners?
And if I'm town, who do you think is wrong town, and who do you think is opportunistic wolf?
Are there other players in this game who you think should know about Visor being good at reading you?
In order of most likely to know
Pizza
Monty
Csargo
Big gap
Dya (maybe)
Amy (maybe)
i dont think i can soulread u correctly bronana (thats gh) :P
in any event, ignoring that, who seems wolfy and villagery to u
In order of most likely to know
Pizza
Monty
Csargo
Big gap
Ladd
Dya (maybe)
Amy (maybe)
Edited to add Ladd in the crew
(By way of an additional post)
In order of most likely to know
Pizza
Monty
Csargo
Big gap
Dya (maybe)
Amy (maybe)
I only remember Zack's game where you subbed in and were a woof.
Looking at those posts Visor never used words that exuded confidence in your alignment imo.
If you're town I do think you post high quality analysis, so the visor can soulread me angle is sort of odd tbh.
I only remember Zack's game where you subbed in and were a woof.
Looking at those posts Visor never used words that exuded confidence in your alignment imo.
If you're town I do think you post high quality analysis, so the visor can soulread me angle is sort of odd tbh.
oh i was p confident he was a wolf in that game tbf
oh i was p confident he was a wolf in that game tbf
Okay, I also don't really think that game is a good barometer of what Logic's saying tho. And I don't recall any other games in recent memory.
logic, most games i've been in with you, I've let GH read you
but I do still think you're wolfy at a baseline to most people
logic part of the issue is your posting is all reactive atm instead of proactive - you're already assuming u r dead and are saying kill x for reading me wrong instead of finding the actual wolves and villagers in the ppl reading u
idk - i think its something we can get caught up in, its not going to change peoples minds, you need to show some solving
I only remember Zack's game where you subbed in and were a woof.
Looking at those posts Visor never used words that exuded confidence in your alignment imo.
If you're town I do think you post high quality analysis, so the visor can soulread me angle is sort of odd tbh.
I thought you knew Visor can soulread me as well as GH can. And what makes you think he doesn't have confidence in the read?
logic part of the issue is your posting is all reactive atm instead of proactive - you're already assuming u r dead and are saying kill x for reading me wrong instead of finding the actual wolves and villagers in the ppl reading u
idk - i think its something we can get caught up in, its not going to change peoples minds, you need to show some solving
I always do some solving regarding how people treat my slot. It's why I have said time and time again that I work better under pressure.
I always do some solving regarding how people treat my slot. It's why I have said time and time again that I work better under pressure.
I just have to do the "solving regarding my own slot" early because I came under fire for treating a casual game in a casual manner.
logic, most games i've been in with you, I've let GH read you
but I do still think you're wolfy at a baseline to most people
All of this sounds like town Dya.
I thought you knew Visor can soulread me as well as GH can. And what makes you think he doesn't have confidence in the read?
I have a pretty bad memory, so I didn't know that. I also had no idea gh could soulread you tbh.
He seemingly has confidence in his read here, which I can understand, even though he didn't really explain why(?) I don't think. I was talking about the other game, but I was wrong :bow:
I just have to do the "solving regarding my own slot" early because I came under fire for treating a casual game in a casual manner.
i dont think ppl are wolfreading u for treating the game casually - ppl are wolfreading u for the content of your posts
i found some of your phrasing and post construction wolfy - felt disjointed to me
No thought on me despite me being one of the loudest proponents of pushing you Logic?
@EnderWiggen
I saw you voting for me, and thought the reasoning I spotted was sound albeit wrong.
But I've also skipped a bunch of posts, so of you got somethingyou specifically want my attention on, feel free to tag me with some postnums.
I do hope you'll forgive me for missing something you wanted my attention on. (And I don't mean "forgive" in a game sense; I'm saying this because I've potentially been rude by ignoring something you've said.)
@EnderWiggen
I saw you voting for me, and thought the reasoning I spotted was sound albeit wrong.
But I've also skipped a bunch of posts, so of you got somethingyou specifically want my attention on, feel free to tag me with some postnums.
I do hope you'll forgive me for missing something you wanted my attention on. (And I don't mean "forgive" in a game sense; I'm saying this because I've potentially been rude by ignoring something you've said.)
EnderWiggin
i dont think ppl are wolfreading u for treating the game casually - ppl are wolfreading u for the content of your posts
i found some of your phrasing and post construction wolfy - felt disjointed to me
I'm used to being either misyeet, IC, or oracle; I'll take those odds.
Vote:Kage :whip:
This seems out of nowhere.
Especially since you were considering me, as far as I could tell.
I have a pretty bad memory, so I didn't know that. I also had no idea gh could soulread you tbh.
He seemingly has confidence in his read here, which I can understand, even though he didn't really explain why(?) I don't think. I was talking about the other game, but I was wrong :bow:
Is GH playing this game?
Vote:Kage :whip:
Someone joining my mystery wagon huh tbh!
This seems out of nowhere.
Especially since you were considering me, as far as I could tell.
Everyone is within consideration, there are multiple woofs after all. I would have considered visor as well, but I don't see what the motivation for burying you would be.
Is GH playing this game?
:shrug:
logic's super pessimistic about his wolf game, there's definitely a world where w!logic gets hard discouraged after being the thread's First Big Wolfread tm and just asks to be turbobussed
at which point i think the least logic-aligned person would probably be boquise, who i otherwise think looks like the obvious level 0 logic partner lmao
Had I randed wolf, this would be 90% correct.
I have one skill in my wolfgame, and it's that my iso is not useful in finding my teammates. It's certainly a useful skill considering when I'm a wolf I live no longer than d3.
Ngl if Logic's town we wasted this entire day phase.
Not if you follow my legacy of "nuke visor after I'm dead"
okay but find the actual wolves logic
dont just say cause i wolfread u i must be a wolf and to kill me
I have a dislike of going with consensus especially D1 because it often lands on town and it provides easy cover for wolves. If we're all throwing a lot of reads/observations around, then they are forced to do so as well and the D5 conversation can be better than "you voted Logic - well so did you - yes but my reasons were more genuine than your reasons".
I am firmly of the opinion that a D1 misyeet (myself included) is better for info on later days than accurately yeeting a wolf.
okay but find the actual wolves logic
dont just say cause i wolfread u i must be a wolf and to kill me
I'll find who I find in my own time.
You don't like it? Yeet me.
I'm looking at everyone talking about me, because there's far more of than than talking to me.
I'll find who I find in my own time.
You don't like it? Yeet me.
I'm looking at everyone talking about me, because there's far more of than than talking to me.
i mean we have 7 hours left
so your own time needs to be p soon
esp if you want to kill someone you think is actually a wolf
i mean we have 7 hours left
so your own time needs to be p soon
esp if you want to kill someone you think is actually a wolf
Lol
You must have missed where I said a D1 town yeet is preferable to long term games.
I am also looking for towns to try and veto a yeet there, assuming my wagon falls apart (not likely.) So far I have a couple I think are consensus (cape and Boq looking towny to me) and I'm liking what I see of Dya and Vulgard.
My pool of suspects include Amy, you, and Csargo.
I've already reiterated my stance on you plenty; no need to rehash it.
Amy looks stilted and uncomfortable; she could be due for some pressure.
Csargo dancing around suspicion of me and then dropping a vote on someone I only saw a single post from has me doing the :fry:
hollowkatt
12-06-2022, 18:19
I love waking up to 6 new pages to read
hollowkatt
12-06-2022, 18:22
I wrote a big wallpost about it not long after that post.
Logic, what's your opinion on Spooge? That's my current alternative to your wagon.
this one?
Speaking of my reads, I ought to compile them.
I have dya V for her approach to my slot and to the game in general, they're just chillin'. This is the type of read I'm somewhat likely to be wrong about, so I don't want to attribute too much weight to it, but I feel good enough about dya for now.
I also felt good about Csargo when he was posting. The read on him is dropping a bit because of recency bias, but it's still there.
I had a dumb read on Visor/ladd that they were V/V for ladd explaining his wolfread on Logic in a very memeworthy way and Visor V reading him for it immediately, then them entering banter. I felt like that was the type of thing villagers do with each other as they find each other but neither feels like making a show of it.
Ender/Amy/ATPG is a weird group that contains a wolf IMO. I currently think the wolf is most likely ATPG, but I also think that ATPG is the most isolated-in-thread of these players, and I want to respect his reads a bit, which is why the two people he sussed the most openly are also in this grouping. Basically, he's either a wolf pushing town (Ender and Amy) or he's right on at least one of them is the way I see the situation. Not exactly helpful to see it this way because it doesn't allow determining which one to vote, but it does narrow down the focus a bit, I suppose. I currently think ATPG is the wolfiest, but I have some concerns about this belief considering how big of a role he's played so far and how few people have actually talked about him in a meaningful way. Though on the other hand I don't know if him not being talked about in a meaningful way by most players (by meaningful, I mean with actual conclusions in regard to his alignment) makes him town, it could just make him a wolf lol (imagine knowing and applying consistent principles for catching wolves). Kinda tempted to move my vote there, but. Fwiw, if ATPG flips mafia, I would strongly consider clearing Ender and Amy, even though ATPG said he was more than happy to leave distancing spew. And if one of Ender/Amy flips mafia, probably give ATPG some time and see if he dies for it (because by his own admission, he should).
Logic just feels like a slot everyone has silently agreed is mafia and I'm probably okay with yeeting him.
If so thanks, if not can you point me to it?
hollowkatt
12-06-2022, 18:25
yeah ok fine
i don't like how logic went straight to "visor is a wolf" without even trying to engage with the read on him
if someone i thought had a really good read on me (e.g. dya) was incorrectly wolfreading me, i'd do everything in my power to figure out where the read is coming from and whether it has a good foundation before i'd write them off as a wolf. not once in my life have i been so confident in someone else's amy-reading abilities as to jump straight to "if X is wrong on my alignment, they're wolfing" without any intermediary steps
why not though? like at some point if you're town and you're convinced that someone else is reading you wolf when they should, by history/experience/whatever, be reading you town or at worst null isn't the logical conclusion "this person isn't pushing me in good faith"?
Like sure you said you've never been "so confident" in someone elses ability to read you but Logic appears to be stating Visor should be able to do that correctly (intimating So Confident) which makes that leap to "visor is a wolf" more of a legit conclusion than what you're arguing.
Raskolnikov
12-06-2022, 18:26
Logic (5): Amy, Ender, Vulgard, Ladd, Visor
Visor (2): Montmo, Logic
Kage (2): Boquise, Csargo
HK (1): Taffy
Luv2spooge (1): HK
ATPG (1): luv2spooge
Renata (1): Kagemusha
hollowkatt
12-06-2022, 18:31
Well you see, I read posts and I determined that on the sum of the posts that I read these were the most likely alignments for each player.
No, I am not. And you are town. And you are an easy read. So don't vote me just because you're an easy read Hollowkatt.
somehow I'm less concerned with how you got to your reads and more concerned with how easily you're handing me a town read.
When I asked why you had those reads I expected at least a small blurb about a few of them like "I like this post, or tonally they're free and easy" not "I read their posts and this is the ordering" which makes me wonder if your reads list isn't basically scraping the thread for consensus and then saying "these are my reads"
Lets talk then about just a couple of your reads:
Ampharos Town - why is Ampharos town?
Taffy - Sorta Wolfy - why is Taffy sorta wolfy and what does sorta wolfy mean?
Vulgard Wolf - why is Vulgard wolf?
Heya hollowkatt.
Talk to me about me, if you will. Or anyone that's made a read on me and your thoughts on it.
Lol
You must have missed where I said a D1 town yeet is preferable to long term games.
I am also looking for towns to try and veto a yeet there, assuming my wagon falls apart (not likely.) So far I have a couple I think are consensus (cape and Boq looking towny to me) and I'm liking what I see of Dya and Vulgard.
My pool of suspects include Amy, you, and Csargo.
I've already reiterated my stance on you plenty; no need to rehash it.
Amy looks stilted and uncomfortable; she could be due for some pressure.
Csargo dancing around suspicion of me and then dropping a vote on someone I only saw a single post from has me doing the :fry:
just me being simple, but I'm okay with it
I think visor/dya are town currently and logic is just a woof tbh
:rolleyes:
I mean, I don't feel like I've been acting as you say. Just cause I didn't drop my vote on you and call it a day. I've been trying to find you, if you're town, while exploring other possibilities.
:rolleyes:
I mean, I don't feel like I've been acting as you say. Just cause I didn't drop my vote on you and call it a day. I've been trying to find you, if you're town, while exploring other possibilities.
"Just a wolf"
"Trying to find you"
You don't see the dichotomy there?
"Just a wolf"
"Trying to find you"
You don't see the dichotomy there?
from last night to this morning no not really. I engaged you about visor and who he was with and why last night. To now where I've continued to try and engage with you.
I was backreading, but the amount of pizza walls
26178
from last night to this morning no not really. I engaged you about visor and who he was with and why last night. To now where I've continued to try and engage with you.
Where are you at today, on a scale of 0-10 in confidence level?
If I'm town, who is also wrong? Who's taking advantage of my wagon?
(Feel free to ask these of yourself and not answer them publicly)
by imperial decree
i now no longer think logic is a wolf
(if the wolves really encouraged logic to go all out there, props to them)
time to shift wagons folks
Vote: Boquise
Ill try to be around at least a bit before eod
Sorry, i knew i wasnt gonna have much time until the 11th but didnt think it'd be this bad
I am firmly of the opinion that a D1 misyeet (myself included) is better for info on later days than accurately yeeting a wolf.
what a post to open the thread to tbh
In order of most likely to know
Pizza
Monty
Csargo
Big gap
Dya (maybe)
Amy (maybe)
kinda surprised that you didnt have me in your read list here tbh
:shrug:
your post implied that tbh
by imperial decree
i now no longer think logic is a wolf
(if the wolves really encouraged logic to go all out there, props to them)
time to shift wagons folks
Vote: Boquise
this unpairs visor with logic me thinks tbh
austria declaring war on sweden, we shall see who has sown his last potato after this brouhaha tbh
idk that logic would prefer he be an elim if he were a wolf
your post implied that tbh
I thought you knew Visor can soulread me as well as GH can. And what makes you think he doesn't have confidence in the read?
I have a pretty bad memory, so I didn't know that. I also had no idea gh could soulread you tbh.
He seemingly has confidence in his read here, which I can understand, even though he didn't really explain why(?) I don't think. I was talking about the other game, but I was wrong :bow:
How?
Surprised to have not heard much from monty so far
Surprised to have not heard much from monty so far
i didnt even realize they were in the game
How?
Second sentence in first paragraph is about GH.
The next paragraph there is just a "he". Considering you most recently wrote GH, the logic of that language implies GH is the "he" lest another name would have been written first tbh. This is a misplaced modifier tbh
Your punishment is 10 laps around the school building tbh
Second sentence in first paragraph is about GH.
The next paragraph there is just a "he". Considering you most recently wrote GH, the logic of that language implies GH is the "he" lest another name would have been written first tbh. This is a misplaced modifier tbh
Your punishment is 10 laps around the school building tbh
Should have wrote Visor instead of he, noted. I'll get to running.
town reads:
cape, vulgard
town leans:
visor, dya, hk, luvs
i am too tired after today smh
i had previously a weak town lean on Amy, as described earlier. I am reverting the read to a weak scum lean because of how Amy is approaching the game and me reminds me of how they have approached those things previously as mafia. Like super easily town read me earlier today for my responses. Amy is a prone Boqusher and is easily paranoid of me tbh. I expected her to feel like I was pocketing her and react to that, if she is town. I have previously misread Amy due to her town reading me and due to how I usually read their mood (it is very relatable tbh).
Also this post:
i have an immediate concern w/ how logic's reentered the thread but i'm gonna sit on it for a bit to see if it's self-correcting
mostly posting this because it's fun to watch logic squirm
Feels like Amy hiding thoughts from the thread. It is hard for Logic to combat this post due to its secrecy. i have more words but they cant get out atm tbh
oh and i voted Kage because there was a post I disliked and I wanted to see how the thread reacted tbh
town reads:
cape, vulgard
town leans:
visor, dya, hk, luvs
i am too tired after today smh
i had previously a weak town lean on Amy, as described earlier. I am reverting the read to a weak scum lean because of how Amy is approaching the game and me reminds me of how they have approached those things previously as mafia. Like super easily town read me earlier today for my responses. Amy is a prone Boqusher and is easily paranoid of me tbh. I expected her to feel like I was pocketing her and react to that, if she is town. I have previously misread Amy due to her town reading me and due to how I usually read their mood (it is very relatable tbh).
Also this post:
Feels like Amy hiding thoughts from the thread. It is hard for Logic to combat this post due to its secrecy. i have more words but they cant get out atm tbh
oh and i voted Kage because there was a post I disliked and I wanted to see how the thread reacted tbh
how did the thread react and what do you think about it?
Should have wrote Visor instead of he, noted. I'll get to running.
good soldier tbh
Raskolnikov
12-06-2022, 21:00
Logic (4): Amy, Ender, Vulgard, Ladd
Visor (2): Montmo, Logic
Kage (1): Csargo
HK (1): Taffy
Luv2spooge (1): HK
ATPG (1): luv2spooge
Renata (1): Kagemusha
Boquise: (1): Visor
Ampharos (1): Boquise
EOD in 4 hours
Where are you at today, on a scale of 0-10 in confidence level?
If I'm town, who is also wrong? Who's taking advantage of my wagon?
(Feel free to ask these of yourself and not answer them publicly)
On me correctly reading you d1? Like a three, maybe four. I'm not confident at all tbh.
I think vulgard is town. ladd have no idea. ender seems similar to other games, where they've been a woof that I've been in. Ampharos is fine other than the stuff pizza brought up.
how did the thread react and what do you think about it?
most people reacted with nothing
but luv made a read of it by also connecting it with what i said about logic, which i thought was a townie reaction
visor's reaction was kinda bad, just saying "yikes lol". I am used to wolves trying to discourage me from my reads tbh
but then visor invented up a whole reason i voted kage without me giving away any hint for the reason tbh
which kinda miffed me and wondered if i was correct in sussing visor for it initially.
the thread not reacting at all and instead keep focusing on logic and stuff is a thing. If Kage is town and Logic scum, I think at least 1 wolf would want to try get on on a seemingly easy wagon to justify. Csargo kinda did that. If both Kage and Logic are scum, I dont see why wolves would not feign interest in me voting Kage. If Kage is scum I can see why some wolves would try to subtly discourage me and lead the wagons elsewhere tbh
i am deathly tired and will in no way be here for eod btw tbh
I'm never killing kage D1
Years since I've played with him
I'm never killing kage D1
Years since I've played with him
I can respect that tbh
Talk to me about amy
Idk what else to say other than what I have already posted tbh
Damn i was hoping to skim logic iso find out he was still being wplfy and peace out for the day but idk about this one friendos
He got a lot villagerier imo
ladd, have you read my posts? do you have a read on me?
enderwiggin
This was my other early wolfread and i dont have time to catch up
Convo with pizza early on felt like he was trying to back off from the fight in a wolfy way without actually conceding the point iyam
I have seen wolves do it a ton of times when they dont want to get in a fight with specific players
ladd, have you read my posts? do you have a read on me?
I read them until last gif i posted
You seemed villagery enuf
EnderWiggin
12-06-2022, 21:40
I don't want to get in a fight with pizza no matter my alignment because I love the guy.
how did the thread react and what do you think about it?
I don't like this question and Dya receives my suspicious attention for it.
EnderWiggin
12-06-2022, 21:43
I haven't seen Logic get that much villagery. I feel like this shrug n kill me isn't what I expect from him as town.
Boq would be my backup scumread if I were to assume Logic town, because the way he's positioned around it feels like stepping over caltrops.
Logic (4): Amy, Ender, Vulgard, Ladd
Visor (2): Montmo, Logic
Kage (1): Csargo
HK (1): Taffy
Luv2spooge (1): HK
ATPG (1): luv2spooge
Renata (1): Kagemusha
Boquise: (1): Visor
Ampharos (1): Boquise
EOD in 4 hours
I dont really wanna pretend i have any pull this d1 but i wouldnt lunch logic nor visor
Afair logic is not capable on biting back/reacting like this as a wolf when getting pushed so hard by the thread
Visor prob about rand but i mindmelded with his early call outs and tahts worth a d1 pass for me
I haven't seen Logic get that much villagery. I feel like this shrug n kill me isn't what I expect from him as town.
Boq would be my backup scumread if I were to assume Logic town, because the way he's positioned around it feels like stepping over caltrops.
I dont think thats what logic did?
Alrighty my time is up sorry
Dont really wanna take any responsability on this d1 given how little i managed to play it
So go with god and gl
EnderWiggin
12-06-2022, 21:47
I dont think thats what logic did?
"A misyeet d1, even me, is better than getting a wolf."
I can quote in a little but not going to run back to find the quotes on a mobile so retyping from memory.
It read v much to me this "alas, you have it wrong. But persevere it will be okay, send my love to my wife and children." Dramatism.
Maybe I'll reread when at computer and see how I got this wrong but I think I got this right
luvs2spooge
12-06-2022, 21:51
Vote: Vulgard
Ampharos
12-06-2022, 21:55
well shit gamers i kinda also think logic's town now
Ampharos
12-06-2022, 21:59
part of me just wants to shrug and hope ladd's right on ender but that's the part of me that got like 3 hours of sleep
i guess i should try to find an actual self-motivated read
Raskolnikov
12-06-2022, 22:00
Logic (3): Amy, Ender, Vulgard
Visor (2): Montmo, Logic
Kage (1): Csargo
HK (1): Taffy
Luv2spooge (1): HK
Renata (1): Kagemusha
Boquise: (1): Visor
Ampharos (1): Boquise
Ender (1): Ladd
Vulgard(1): luv2spooge
EOD in 3 hours nerds
Ampharos
12-06-2022, 22:09
noticed i caught heat from boq and logic but i think it's nai stuff from them
logic in particular sucks at tonereading me and it's cute that he's trying again
-
if i let myself solve for a town!logic world, i can definitely see a wolf angle from ender - he seems like one of the most reluctant people to let go of this logic vote, which tracks in a world with no real secondary wagon to use as a fallback. like if logic got greenpeeked rn i'd look first at the people who were driving his train hardest and were most unwilling to get off when the tracks changed. or something. i think i lost that metaphor like halfway through but hopefully that parses ok
uhhh cape and vulgard are probably my strongest townreads. visor and hk maybe a tier below, both mostly off vibes. dya i don't want to kill before i can get a solid read on them, ladd/pizza i kinda just don't want to kill d1 in general
so i guess my suspect pool, as it were, exists outside of that
EnderWiggin
12-06-2022, 22:12
So the stated reasons for wolfreading me so far is that I don't believe I agree with the shift to townreads of Logic and the dissolution of the wagon feels wolf motivated.
And... I didn't want to fight with Pizza.
Lmao
Ampharos
12-06-2022, 22:17
my gut is telling me to vote boq, which means he's probably town
Ampharos
12-06-2022, 22:21
how do i already have too many townreads
mafia sucks
I have skimmed through what I have missed. I should compile a coherent worldview though since I haven't done so. Then I will answer Vul's question since I don't exactly remember since I was townreading him
Ampharos
12-06-2022, 22:36
whatever
i'll just play when it's closer to eod and follow wherever the whims of the thread/my own fucked up inner psyche take me
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