Casual december game

[Vulgard]

also maybe technically falls under OGI so get rekt :computer:

It's literally in the same thread.

[Askthepizzaguy]

none of this doesn't make sense so sure.

I'll share my town reads if/when I arrive at them, there's a slight niggling of something on Ender I think is positive but I'm sitting on that for the time being.
I don't believe in towntells because I think any wolf worth their salt can towntell, like you said in 189 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154761-Casual-december-game?p=2053836728&viewfull=1#post2053836728) only replace derp/dumb with town or wolf at your leisure.

I'm where you're at on towntells on other things I am starting to believe only correlated with success, like derpclears.

Lilypetal smoked me in the Kingmaker because she derpcleared very very very convincingly.

That was the last straw. It's a broken process and it's gone. Never again.

[luvs2spooge]

I AMA tha maphier

[Askthepizzaguy]

Ok. Let us see. I have not played mafia for i don?t remember how many years and some of you i i know, most i do not.So far i dont get much wolfines from the thread. The only thing really poking my eye is why Monty ignores to answer Taffy?s question about roles and knowledge, maybe you just missed it? What town needs is more talk from more people. More the merrier, so maybe poke some action? Vote: Csargo How are you old buddy?

That's a nulltown pile. Plop.

There ya go Kagemusha. Day one pass for you.

I remember you're a good wolf, so. More null than town, but still. It's good. I'm not gonna vote you here.

[Askthepizzaguy]

(snip, but previous sentences also apply)

But maybe I am cosmic braining this since ATPG is saying that Amy was wolftelling over here...

My scumtell list has been viewed fifteen thousand times. Let's say a thousand of those are me writing the guide, and a bunch are bots. It's still been viewed by hundreds of mafia players, period.

Villagers also scumtell.

Because of my published guide, I am largely disregarding the scumtells process. It is a factor, but it is inaccurate now.

Any wolf familiar with the draft version of the guide will know what tells to avoid now.

There have been example(s) so far of where I entirely threw out or even reversed the scumtells process because players were in the game who I know for a fact have read the scumtells section of my guide.

When I believe that happened, the people scumtelling in a game are town or wolves that are lazy and don't care about being warned what not to post.

I cannot use scumtells as a basis of a vote anymore. Even if I point them out, the value they now hold is equivalent to fractions of a penny per wolftell.

I cannot put stock in the published scumtell list, but in the event it wasn't read or the wolf team writ large is unaware, those are examples of scumtells in a concentrated manner, so I point it out.

And then explain why I'm moving on, because the false positives are outpacing the correct positives over the past few months.

Mainly because the guide has been viewed fifteen thousand times.

[luvs2spooge]

where isa the mafia

[luvs2spooge]

My scumtell list has been viewed fifteen thousand times. Let's say a thousand of those are me writing the guide, and a bunch are bots. It's still been viewed by hundreds of mafia players, period.

Villagers also scumtell.

Because of my published guide, I am largely disregarding the scumtells process. It is a factor, but it is inaccurate now.

Any wolf familiar with the draft version of the guide will know what tells to avoid now.

There have been example(s) so far of where I entirely threw out or even reversed the scumtells process because players were in the game who I know for a fact have read the scumtells section of my guide.

When I believe that happened, the people scumtelling in a game are town or wolves that are lazy and don't care about being warned what not to post.

I cannot use scumtells as a basis of a vote anymore. Even if I point them out, the value they now hold is equivalent to fractions of a penny per wolftell.

I cannot put stock in the published scumtell list, but in the event it wasn't read or the wolf team writ large is unaware, those are examples of scumtells in a concentrated manner, so I point it out.

And then explain why I'm moving on, because the false positives are outpacing the correct positives over the past few months.

Mainly because the guide has been viewed fifteen thousand times.

you sound like a villager

[Askthepizzaguy]

I missed this part and I apologize.

You kind of put word soup here. What are you even saying with the first part?

I am simply missing the context I feel like.

And about the scummy on purpose thing, why if it is so clever should he not do it? I don't think a play like that is quite clever myself.

I feel like that's not what Ender is doing, I just feel like if this was the case, Ender would be more overtly scummy rather then how low-key they have felt. (low-key is not the right word since it's true Ender has posted a lot, but my point is if I were doing that play, I feel like I would moreso mess around and poke buttons while giggling to myself to see how far I could take it).

I had to remember this was bladescape on another note.

Because this will largely only help you, anyone else who cares can click the spoiler.

Bladescape knows how I hunt wolves on a very intimate basis. Has seen my guide on hunting wolves.

He knows my scumtells and other means of solving. He admitted he did certain things that are wolfy already deliberately.

Much of the rest of his iso is wolfy and not what I believe Bladescape(enderwiggin) should be doing here as town.

I asked him to play it straight if he's trying to be wolf read by me deliberately. I told Wisdom the same thing in two recent games where they deliberately tried to get a certain player to read them wolf. Once as town, once as wolf because they just did it as town.

Interfering with a townie's solve in that manner is not good teamwork, I find it selfish.

Blades is not a selfish player so he will begin playing the game straight from here on out or my wolf read will stand.

It is clever in the sense that he can, as town, read my solving process and see if I am processing it out like town!me.

But it is selfish and sabotages the team in that it makes my reads list worse when he is town, and causes me to miss hitting a wolf with my vote.

And he is a strong enough WINE-ful wolf that he would absolutely do all this as wolf for the sheer bravado and WIFOM of it.

He also said he's not doing it all deliberately, and the stuff I find not deliberately wolfy is far wolfier than the bits I think he's doing on purpose.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Well there is also this, and I kind of want to townread it lmao.

But it's obviously wolfy self-awareness so cape is wrong :joker:

There ya go.

I picked up on he's doing it deliberately before he admitted he was.

I have played with blades enough to know this is not his town game, and that part of it was intentional.

The issue is, that's a great smokescreen for the stuff he's worried I will catch legitimately if he is wolfing here.

He can always just claim he was trying to be wolfy, which he already admitted to.

That is a panacea for being scumread.

Which is a tactic.

And not a solving one. Which is why the wolfread stands.

[Askthepizzaguy]

That is a solid lean of wolf, for the reasons given.

However, I am careful with my blade(scape) and will not dome him over it on day one.

He has the remainder of the round to find a wolf and convince me not to yeet him, and be properly villagery and stop sabotaging my reads list.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I AMA tha maphier

You will have to be wolfier than that if you want to be the yetee today.

(platonic hugs)

Welcome to the game, friendo I have never met before, presumably. Lettuce find woofs if you're town.

[Askthepizzaguy]

where isa the mafia

It'sa me, Red Waluigi.

Waluigi is a very legitimate businessman. We're like family, capice? Some people I know sleep with the Cheep-Cheeps. Waluigi not judging but not his thing.


you sound like a villager

Accurate.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Cape90 is Green Mario this game.

(That's code for "Luigi")


(That's code for "Town")

[Askthepizzaguy]

Been meaning to post this for like 30 minutes but kept quick replying.

Vulgard, no idea who this person is. Could be a level 5 megawolf I do not know, zero meta.

A read of their iso puts them in my not wolfread list and shall not be voted by me today.

[Askthepizzaguy]

2. Csargo
7. dyachei
11. Ladd
13. Boquise- has posted.
15. Renata

Unsorted.

I love all of these people and am sad that there's on average 2+ wolves in this list.

https://i.imgur.com/IPJnUUM.gif

Me bracing myself for votes I won't like to make later on.

Please for the love of god be villagery so I have to redo my nulltown pile.

[Vulgard]

Been meaning to post this for like 30 minutes but kept quick replying.

Vulgard, no idea who this person is. Could be a level 5 megawolf I do not know, zero meta.

A read of their iso puts them in my not wolfread list and shall not be voted by me today.

I'm a level 10 megawolf.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Amy
Bladescape

2. Csargo
7. dyachei
11. Ladd
13. Boquise- has posted.
15. Renata
These people, when I can extract at least one town read from these five names, hopefully 2.

These are the people who if I had to prevent from seeing night one, I would pick off of this list exclusively.

[luvs2spooge]

You will have to be wolfier than that if you want to be the yetee today.

(platonic hugs)

Welcome to the game, friendo I have never met before, presumably. Lettuce find woofs if you're town.

Ohohoho no. I AMA the mystery. But you know me.

[luvs2spooge]

I'm a level 10 megawolf.

Ohohoho you certainly are quite the wolf.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I'm a level 10 megawolf.

I'm a level five wolf, and I haven't met anyone stronger than me.

About twenty equals, and individually impressive performances that I would need to be five years younger and with zero kids to emulate.

Level six wolves I have never seen before. But, noated.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Ohohoho no. I AMA the mystery. But you know me.

You remind me of Splitpersonality but I also doubt it is you after all these years.

Also, I know that Split is a different person than the one I was first introduced to, making it drastically unlikely you are they.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Anyone I do not know gets the assumed level 4+ wolf treatment and will never go above null no matter how much I do townread them.

[Askthepizzaguy]

That's about it for me, I devoted like four hours to solving the game and we have a lot of not posters.

I'm going to start lolcatting and memeing now, if nobody minds too terribly.

I feel the need to be a kid having fun out there, it calls to me.

[luvs2spooge]

I ama the level 4. But I ama the villager this time.

[luvs2spooge]

You remind me of Splitpersonality but I also doubt it is you after all these years.

Also, I know that Split is a different person than the one I was first introduced to, making it drastically unlikely you are they.

Ironic guess.

[Vulgard]

Anyone I do not know gets the assumed level 4+ wolf treatment and will never go above null no matter how much I do townread them.

Fair enough, this happens to me literally every game anyway.

[luvs2spooge]

The wolfy "I agree".

Wolfy self vote:

Vote: myself

The wolfy "I find it interesting" that pizza would immediately open day one claiming to want a doctor/jailer.

Frankly, I think he's mafia and he wants to catch the town protective role using a teammate's watcher power.

Frankly, that plan proves he's a lock wolf.

The wolfy Hmmmmmm

The wolfy I can see it both ways, maybe he's a townie. I don't know.

Vote: Askthepizzaguy

[luvs2spooge]

I actually probably should collate reasons more I'm just baffled by how it changes game to game.

And yes usually by villagers with some wolves mixed in.

Remind me to give you insight into this in postgame.

[luvs2spooge]

Town

Cape
Hollowkatt
Ampharos

Little Bit Towny

Mont
Visor
Blade

Meh

Sorta Wolfy

Taffy

Quite Wolfy

Logic
Pizza
Vulgard

I have read all the posts, these are my reads. Goodbye.

[Totally not Taffy]

The only thing really poking my eye is why Monty ignores to answer Taffy?s question about roles and knowledge, maybe you just missed it?

I know he didn't address me directly, but I felt he answered the question here:


Werewolves killed the cats. Mice gooned up and became Mafia. Ergo no watchers.

I took that to mean "that joke went over your head, don't worry about it".


Rest of catchup later, is there a way to make this forum automatically do page references like on MU p# or do I have to edit them all in manually?

[dyachei]

sup

[Vulgard]

sup

Dya-hey.

[dyachei]

hey vulgard, seems like a long time since we played together

[Vulgard]

hey vulgard, seems like a long time since we played together

Because it has indeed been a long time. How have you been?

[dyachei]

Because it has indeed been a long time. How have you been?

ok, busy with the little one all the time. I actually have more time to play at work than i do at home.

you?

[Kagemusha]

I know he didn't address me directly, but I felt he answered the question here:



I took that to mean "that joke went over your head, don't worry about it".


Rest of catchup later, is there a way to make this forum automatically do page references like on MU p# or do I have to edit them all in manually?

Ok. Thanks Taffy! Seems i overlooked the answer which i thought Monty overlooked. Sounds like something from mafia game from Geriatric ward. :sweatdrop:

[Vulgard]

ok, busy with the little one all the time. I actually have more time to play at work than i do at home.

you?

It's been going. I've had more time to play lately and so that's what I'm doing, although I'm not exactly happy with my performances. I'm not sure how to improve them and I don't think I will figure it out this game, either. At least my real life is going fine :)

[Askthepizzaguy]

Don't pocket me because I try not to be an awful townie :( You're taking advantage of my desperation not to suck.

@ Vulgard

Do you have a wolf read on EnderWiggin?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Rest of catchup later, is there a way to make this forum automatically do page references like on MU p# or do I have to edit them all in manually?

I know of no such shortcut but I saw someone make a direct link to a post by editing in a link.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Ohohoho no. I AMA the mystery. But you know me.

The Pretender?

[Csargo]

~:wave:

[Askthepizzaguy]

Welcome, frand Csargo.

I find your friendly smiley greeting to be not wolfy. How do you plead?

[Csargo]

Welcome, frand Csargo.

I find your friendly smiley greeting to be not wolfy. How do you plead?

That's a mistake friendo. Look into it's eyes, clearly it has murderous intent.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Lean wolf
12. Vulgard
6. luvs2spooge
5. Ampharos
9. EnderWiggin

[Askthepizzaguy]

That's a mistake friendo. Look into it's eyes, clearly it has murderous intent.

I-I-I cannot s-s-senpai. W-w-whenever I do I g-g-get flushed in the face and n-n-nervous.

I'm the one with murderous intent, by the way. I got "maphier" to destroy here. AMA

[Vulgard]

@ Vulgard

Do you have a wolf read on EnderWiggin?

No.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Lean wolf
5. Ampharos
12. Vulgard
6. luvs2spooge
9. EnderWiggin


Reordered.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Don't pocket me because I try not to be an awful townie :( You're taking advantage of my desperation not to suck.

Then why are you suggesting he is pocketing you?

[Vulgard]

Reordered.

What do I have to do to get off that list?

[Csargo]

I-I-I cannot s-s-senpai. W-w-whenever I do I g-g-get flushed in the face and n-n-nervous.

I'm the one with murderous intent, by the way. I got "maphier" to destroy here. AMA

pls no

Vote:ATPG

[Vulgard]

Then why are you suggesting he is pocketing you?

It was more of a reaction assessment than a read. I think he could possibly have been trying to pocket me, but I'm not sure. If I actually thought he was a wolf, I would be voting him.

[Askthepizzaguy]

What is it about how I post that gets me wolfread every other game.

I swear I flip a coin at gamestart and no matter how I'm trying to post I get a bunch of early wolfreads or townreads and I don't feel like I'm posting any different.

And it's not alignment reliant because it's happened both ways as either alignment.

Are the people wolf reading you villagers?

If so, why.

The reason I asked this question is the complaint comes from a person who either believes or knows all of those people are wolves.

Because there was no villagery vigilance here. Just talking about them like EnderWiggin knows they are town.

And the answer to my query did not, in fact, enlighten me as to how he arrived at this conclusion in bold red.

[Kagemusha]

That's a mistake friendo. Look into it's eyes, clearly it has murderous intent.

I hope you brought your rope and pitchfork with you. Certain amount of bloodthirst is in order to flush mafia out. But let us talk first and start hanging in a bit: Vote: Renata How has the world treated you all these years we have not played mafia together?

[Askthepizzaguy]

What do I have to do to get off that list?

Find four wolves not named Vulgard over the course of the game.

[Askthepizzaguy]

It was more of a reaction assessment than a read. I think he could possibly have been trying to pocket me, but I'm not sure. If I actually thought he was a wolf, I would be voting him.

I do not believe this is true.

I kinda don't believe any of your process so far on day one on reasses and meta dive.

[Askthepizzaguy]

pls no

Vote:ATPG

S-s-senpai n-n-no.... pls do- do- do not... h-h-hurt pizza-chan

https://i.imgur.com/GoQ8zHA.png

[Vulgard]

I do not believe this is true.

I kinda don't believe any of your process so far on day one on reasses and meta dive.

That's probably because I don't really have one, I barely have thoughts so far.

[Vulgard]

Find four wolves not named Vulgard over the course of the game.

I'm going to disappoint you.

[Vulgard]

This is how you play at 50% WIM and while meming?

[Csargo]

S-s-senpai n-n-no.... pls do- do- do not... h-h-hurt pizza-chan

https://i.imgur.com/GoQ8zHA.png

I'm just here crying into my coffee, don't mind me.

[Vulgard]

The reason I asked this question is the complaint comes from a person who either believes or knows all of those people are wolves.

Because there was no villagery vigilance here. Just talking about them like EnderWiggin knows they are town.

And the answer to my query did not, in fact, enlighten me as to how he arrived at this conclusion in bold red.

I frankly don't like this line of thinking very much from you.

[Vulgard]

I frankly don't like this line of thinking very much from you.

But I probably think this because I relate. I mean. You're doing this to me right now.

And before you accuse me of TMIng you town or something, you can be mafia doing this. I currently think you're town but that push is kinda eh upon revisiting the reasoning. I think Ender could've said that as town.

[Vulgard]

Guess Ender could be mafia, though, in which case you are probably town.

This feels kind of useless to say because it's obvious and relies on a lot of preflips.

[Askthepizzaguy]

This is how you play at 50% WIM and while meming?

Yeah I'm completely half assing it right now.

I have a lot of tabs open and only two of them are related to this game.

[Vulgard]

You've already done more than a lot of people I know would've done by now while playing at 100%.

Towny in a vacuum.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I frankly don't like this line of thinking very much from you.


But I probably think this because I relate. I mean. You're doing this to me right now.

And before you accuse me of TMIng you town or something, you can be mafia doing this. I currently think you're town but that push is kinda eh upon revisiting the reasoning. I think Ender could've said that as town.


Guess Ender could be mafia, though, in which case you are probably town.

This feels kind of useless to say because it's obvious and relies on a lot of preflips.

"I don't like" is not a wolf read.

I can be mafia, I think you're town but, the push is "eh", I think Ender could have said as town, could be mafia, in which case I am probably town.

That's a long string of wolftells all at once.

[Vulgard]

"I don't like" is not a wolf read.

I can be mafia, I think you're town but, the push is "eh", I think Ender could have said as town, could be mafia, in which case I am probably town.

That's a long string of wolftells all at once.

It's almost like there is nuance in mafia and not everyone has confident, binary reads on people ~12 hours into a game.

[Vulgard]

It's almost like there is nuance in mafia and not everyone has confident, binary reads on people ~12 hours into a game.

Multiple things can be true at once. I can dislike your push, like an individual post of yours, like your overall body of work but only in a vacuum, and have it add up to a pretty uncertain read. I'm allowed to have all these things influence my opinion, and consequently, I feel like the idea of hedging being wolfy is severely outdated.

[Askthepizzaguy]

It's almost like there is nuance in mafia and not everyone has confident, binary reads on people ~12 hours into a game.

Ah, annoyed sarcasm, we meet again.

Not villagery, but familiar.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Multiple things can be true at once. I can dislike your push, like an individual post of yours, like your overall body of work but only in a vacuum, and have it add up to a pretty uncertain read. I'm allowed to have all these things influence my opinion, and consequently, I feel like the idea of hedging being wolfy is severely outdated.

Would you like examples of a wolf hedging in the exact previous game I played,
And the game before that,
And the game before that,
And the game before that,

With no breaks in between?

[Csargo]

Lean wolf
12. Vulgard
6. luvs2spooge
5. Ampharos
9. EnderWiggin


Why do you lean woof on Ampharos? Posts seem disjointed, but not bad from what I've read so far.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Since you're already clearly annoyed, I will move my pressure elsewhere for today and give you breathing room.

But the wolf lean stays until something changes it.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Why do you lean woof on Ampharos? Posts seem disjointed, but not bad from what I've read so far.

I can grab the quotes... hang on

[Vulgard]

Would you like examples of a wolf hedging in the exact previous game I played,
And the game before that,
And the game before that,
And the game before that,

With no breaks in between?

I could do the same for villagers.

What are you trying to prove? I probably shouldn't have written that part about hedging, because this is going to turn into an argument about principles, which seems worthless to me and doesn't actually advance the game.


Ah, annoyed sarcasm, we meet again.

Not villagery, but familiar.

I mean, you're calling me a wolf for something I do every game and which I don't think is wolf-indicative to begin with under most circumstances. There's nuance to that, too.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Ok it seems I have to do this like 8 quotes at a time, and then manually deselect them after.

This will take a few minutes Csargo

forgot the draconian limitations we have here.

[Vulgard]

Since you're already clearly annoyed, I will move my pressure elsewhere for today and give you breathing room.

But the wolf lean stays until something changes it.

You have no idea how accustomed I am to being wolfread, I hardly ever get towncleared for anything. The thing I'm annoyed by is your reasoning, because it seems like you're applying unreasonable standards to my slot despite not even knowing how I play (by your own admission) and treating me like a megawolf (by your own admission). Like, if I'm a megawolf, then me hedging this hard shouldn't be something I do as a wolf. And I don't feel like you should be expecting me to have hard reads on a ton of slots when the game has barely started (especially since you don't know how I play).

You're probably town for it, because the more I convince myself you're a wolf the more I feel silly about thinking that, but come on.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Ampharos iso and related posts supplementing the read:


im retired
NAI


pizza are you ok
NAI


Vote: Logic
Vote which is supported later.


help i've never done a rodeo before

the horse is angry and i'm scared
NAI
NAI stuff


if logic's readslist is vibes-based, why does he then go out of his way to add "i'll let you guys figure out the reasons"

"vibes" is a perfectly valid reason

strikes me as a worry that his readslist won't look legitimate enough without the implication that there's additional reasoning happening behind-the-scenes
Addresses the general audience, which is a wolftell of mine, doesn't engage Logic directly, so this is wolfy passive aggression.

If this is a villager sussing someone, then there would be some engagement with the target to determine their alignment as opposed to already pushing a conclusion toward the other jurors.


I am now calling Ampharos my mindmeld townbuddy.

This is not a pocket attempt.tm
I believe Ender is a wolf so far, and this is wolfy defense strategy.
Supplemental.


cape and ender are the only actually funny people in this thread so they can be town

the rest of you are awarded no points, and may god have mercy on your souls

wait fuck i got tricked into actually playing mafia

this isn't persona 5 royal at all
I think this is bad acting. I can't use this as persuasive, but the post doesnt read genuine at all, it has a wolfy tone.


posts dreamed up by the utterly Deranged
Nonsensical and doesn't engage with someone that, purportedly, they are struggling to read, meaning me.

See next post:



pizza's manic energy is undeniably real and probably alignment nonindicative

his insistence that rvs won't end until people give reads on him is... odd, and almost somewhat passive in a roundabout sort of way. there are a billion ways for rvs to give way to Real Content, many of which include him giving reads on other people, and the implication that he himself will not be the one to give the read that ends rvs somewhat concerns me

based purely on recollection [i will NOT be doing research, do NOT ask me to] pizza does have a tendency to adopt a thread-protagonist persona as either alignment, but as villager i think it breaks closer to "i'll lead the charge" vs as wolf being "let's all do this together". his actual game-related comments thus far strike me as slightly leaning towards the latter

that said i kinda don't think i'm actually wolfreading him lol

All of the bolded are wolftells.

Please continue villaging if you are, villagers wolftell.

Now I ask a solving question:


To assist me in "NotWolfreading" you, please give post numbers or quotes of the things they said you found funny.

Do not tell me why you found them funny.


did you know i once got my car searched by the cops because they asked if i had weed and i said "probably not, no"

note: i do not smoke weed

Amy does not engage or answer the question.

In summary, mostly wolftells, bad process or nonexistent process, not engaging with someone they're struggling to read, not interested in resolving that person's alignment, speaking to the general audience (the jury) and passive aggressively pushing a conclusion with regard to Logic as opposed to solving Logic in a genuine manner by engaging them.

Two disengagements, multiple bad acting wolfy tone fake posts, loads of passive aggression.

Nothing villagery at all in the iso, period.

[Visor]

Hey csargo, kage

hope you fellas have been well

[Csargo]

Hey csargo, kage

hope you fellas have been well

Yep been going good, how's it going Visor?

[Askthepizzaguy]

You have no idea how accustomed I am to being wolfread, I hardly ever get towncleared for anything. The thing I'm annoyed by is your reasoning, because it seems like you're applying unreasonable standards to my slot despite not even knowing how I play (by your own admission) and treating me like a megawolf (by your own admission). Like, if I'm a megawolf, then me hedging this hard shouldn't be something I do as a wolf. And I don't feel like you should be expecting me to have hard reads on a ton of slots when the game has barely started (especially since you don't know how I play).

You're probably town for it, because the more I convince myself you're a wolf the more I feel silly about thinking that, but come on.

I am not even voting you, so I do not believe your annoyance levels can be coming from a villager.

You're arguing with me about stuff that catches wolves every game for years. I will not be persuaded my methods don't find wolves.

I can be persuaded they're not finding a wolf right now, in your name. But this isn't the way to convince me of that, and the more you talk to me like I am a villager, the less I believe you're struggling to read my alignment.

But, I do not need to vote you today, as I find it vanishingly unlikely my 4 suspects are all villagers.

[Visor]

Yep been going good, how's it going Visor?

i've been pretty good

long year but enjoying a break at the end of it

[Askthepizzaguy]

Enderwiggin immediately getting flustered over mild early game wolf reads, Vulgard doing the same on even less pressure, Amy doing half the passive aggressive wolf tells, and spooge having no process on their leans list with Amy as a top townie.

Followed by most of the day being wolfy banter between most of these, leads me to believe there are multiple wolves engaged in the Defense strategy contained within these names.

[Csargo]

i've been pretty good

long year but enjoying a break at the end of it

Nice glad to hear it. :2thumbsup:

Any juicy thoughts on the game so far?

[Vulgard]

What is your read on Logic?

[Vulgard]

Enderwiggin immediately getting flustered over mild early game wolf reads, Vulgard doing the same on even less pressure, Amy doing half the passive aggressive wolf tells, and spooge having no process on their leans list with Amy as a top townie.

Followed by most of the day being wolfy banter between most of these, leads me to believe there are multiple wolves engaged in the Defense strategy contained within these names.

I'm starting to think you are faking those reads. There's no way you have a confident worldview right now and believe it so strongly.

Me thinking this probably makes you town, though.

[Visor]

Nice glad to hear it. :2thumbsup:

Any juicy thoughts on the game so far?

i got a couple percolating about, but i wanna take some time to read over the game thread and try and pin down how i am feeling - i've mostly just read over bits and pieces here and there

what about yuo?

[Askthepizzaguy]

I also have solid Nulltown reads on everyone else who has posted, minus say Dyachei or Csargo but theyre not wolfy yet.

Newcomb box strategy combined with my every single game scum finding process.

It's day one so it can be wrong especially with so many people that I cannot read.

But there's wolfy stuff happening and I'mma call it as I see it.

Combined processes so far leading to reads.

Conclusion to come by end of day when everyone is a read as opposed to a 2 1 or 0 poster.

Confidence levels are... what they should be. Every intellectual thread says this, emotions eating at me.

https://i.imgur.com/Wd4RKg2.png

Reminding myself not to doubt myself too much.

[Vulgard]

Spooge is whatever, can shrugkill and might do that if I don't have a stronger take by EoD.

No real opinion on the others you listed.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Taking a break for dinner and family time.

https://i.imgur.com/DI94lns.gif

Nic Cage give me strength.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I'm starting to think you are faking those reads. There's no way you have a confident worldview right now and believe it so strongly.

Confidence levels are always fighting with the anxiety demons for control over my brain, but you will find it exactly matches every single town game I've done all year, on the first round, without exception.

With the results that keep telling me to try to be confident about it, because doubting my wolf read let one go in Friends 17 and it was a 95 percent wolf read based on all my time honored processes, too.

I never should have let him go but he fought back so well I doubted the processes.

Mainly because the confidence is propped up by a decision to be confident as opposed to a lack of doubts.

Inner thoughts on display.

[Visor]

atpg i dont want to tell u how to play

but you do kinda have 100 posts in like just over 12 hours lol

maybe slow it down just a touch to let the thread breathe a little ymmv

[Csargo]

What is your read on Logic?

Opening seems weird and readlist also just weird as well. Saying vibes and then 'figure out the why', strikes me as odd. Everything else seems meh, so I have a pretty negative view on Logic so far.

[dyachei]

pizza is being pizza, I see. might a couple v points but I'm not ready to commit yet

[dyachei]

Opening seems weird and readlist also just weird as well. Saying vibes and then 'figure out the why', strikes me as odd. Everything else seems meh, so I have a pretty negative view on Logic so far.

i think you've played with him before, is this like...baseline logic weird or wolfy logic weird?

[Csargo]

i got a couple percolating about, but i wanna take some time to read over the game thread and try and pin down how i am feeling - i've mostly just read over bits and pieces here and there

what about yuo?

Nothing that hasn't already been brought up I don't think. Other than I don't really like some of hk's posts with regards to pizza and ender. Nothing else really.

[Visor]

Nothing that hasn't already been brought up I don't think. Other than I don't really like some of hk's posts with regards to pizza and ender. Nothing else really.

nice

villagery post bronana u are lock clear

[Kagemusha]

Hey csargo, kage

hope you fellas have been well

Hi Visor! Hope life been kind to you. I think since we last talked. I got married and have a 2,5 year old daughter now. ~:wave:

[Csargo]

i think you've played with him before, is this like...baseline logic weird or wolfy logic weird?

I don't remember tbh, so I can't really say how to differentiate the two.

[Csargo]

nice

villagery post bronana u are lock clear

:bow:

[Visor]

sigh i accidentally closed my tab and lost my post

cliffs:

atpg prob town for d1 (though hes made some weird posts)

csargo prob town (actually this is a horrendous read but yolo lol)

hkatt eh

cape weird

logic wolfy

[Visor]

Hi Visor! Hope life been kind to you. I think since we last talked. I got married and have a 2,5 year old daughter now. ~:wave:

wowza thats quite the life change

congrats man, seems like things are going well for you, happy to hear it

[Kagemusha]

wowza thats quite the life change

congrats man, seems like things are going well for you, happy to hear it

Thanks! Im a happy man these days. :bow:

[Visor]

anyone stand out to you atm kage?

[Csargo]

Ampharos iso and related posts supplementing the read:


NAI


NAI


Vote which is supported later.


NAI
NAI stuff


Addresses the general audience, which is a wolftell of mine, doesn't engage Logic directly, so this is wolfy passive aggression.

If this is a villager sussing someone, then there would be some engagement with the target to determine their alignment as opposed to already pushing a conclusion toward the other jurors.


I believe Ender is a wolf so far, and this is wolfy defense strategy.
Supplemental.



I think this is bad acting. I can't use this as persuasive, but the post doesnt read genuine at all, it has a wolfy tone.


Nonsensical and doesn't engage with someone that, purportedly, they are struggling to read, meaning me.

See next post:



Now I ask a solving question:





Amy does not engage or answer the question.

In summary, mostly wolftells, bad process or nonexistent process, not engaging with someone they're struggling to read, not interested in resolving that person's alignment, speaking to the general audience (the jury) and passive aggressively pushing a conclusion with regard to Logic as opposed to solving Logic in a genuine manner by engaging them.

Two disengagements, multiple bad acting wolfy tone fake posts, loads of passive aggression.

Nothing villagery at all in the iso, period.

I liked the Logic post, mostly cause I agree with it. And it doesn't really preclude Logic from engaging with it, but it is sort of passive in the way you described.

The post on you just seems wrong from my experience at least. The last line is bad in the post about you imo, the rest in finetm.

Overall, it's not great I'd agree.

[dyachei]

i feel like exactly the people i would expect to be wolf read pre-rand are the ones people are most concerned about

[Visor]

i feel like exactly the people i would expect to be wolf read pre-rand are the ones people are most concerned about

do you like logics posts

[dyachei]

do you like logics posts

not really but I never do

[Csargo]

sigh i accidentally closed my tab and lost my post

cliffs:

atpg prob town for d1 (though hes made some weird posts)

csargo prob town (actually this is a horrendous read but yolo lol)

hkatt eh

cape weird

logic wolfy

Why is cape weird?

[Visor]

Why is cape weird?

didnt get jokes

posts had weird tone idk


he gets a :stare:

[Csargo]

didnt get jokes

posts had weird tone idk


he gets a :stare:

d1 :stare: pretty glaring indictment

[Kagemusha]

anyone stand out to you atm kage?

I dont have anything to point my finger into yet. Hope more people would chip in and talk.

[Csargo]

i feel like exactly the people i would expect to be wolf read pre-rand are the ones people are most concerned about

Who? Logic + Ender? + ???

[hollowkatt]

Several people didn't read ATPG's pre-game posting, huh.

nah, I read it. I also remembered how pizza posted to open a mash on mafiauniverse a short time ago and he was wolf there and this was similar enough that I wanted to let him know I remembered.

[ladd]

vote logic

seems like an obvious wolf

[Vulgard]

I think Csargo is town for the way they talked about Logic. It just felt genuine. No frills.

[Vulgard]

vote logic

seems like an obvious wolf

Can you elaborate?

[Csargo]

nah, I read it. I also remembered how pizza posted to open a mash on mafiauniverse a short time ago and he was wolf there and this was similar enough that I wanted to let him know I remembered.

Is this psychological warfare?

[Vulgard]

Just finished my worst towngame in my history of playing mafia, ama.

The contrast between my recent experiences and Pizza's is pretty hilarious.

[Visor]

Just finished my worst towngame in my history of playing mafia, ama.

The contrast between my recent experiences and Pizza's is pretty hilarious.

what happened

[dyachei]

Who? Logic + Ender? + ???

Amy

[Vulgard]

Just finished my worst towngame in my history of playing mafia, ama.

The contrast between my recent experiences and Pizza's is pretty hilarious.

And now I can answer Pizza's concerns from earlier in more depth. I feel genuinely scared of making reads now, because I just finished a game where I had 4 villagers as wolfreads and two wolves as towncore. We did end up winning that game, but I almost singlehandedly made us lose it, and it took the presence of another villager who became an IC for us to win. It was by far my worst town performance ever.

I also had really terrible reads in some other recent games, which doesn't help. So, yeah. I do have thoughts, but I'm afraid of expressing them because I don't want to be lolwrong again. My last game was an awful performance, so was the game before that, and I tried to express more confidence in both because people have historically wolfread me for hedging, much like you're doing. But me expressing more confidence just led to me becoming even more lolwrong and pushing the wolves' agenda for them.

Realistically, I suspect you for being so confident in such a major solve, Pizza, because I couldn't imagine being this confident this early. I simply could not. I don't have a single read right now that I would 100% commit to. I had two such reads early into my last game and both were horrendously wrong. You have a world of four already.

Your pushes on players other than myself also rub me the wrong way. The push on Ender especially feels like you're seeing something I can't possibly see. From my perspective, Ender did something that vaguely seemed pockety, I told him half-jokingly that he was trying to pocket an innocent townie, he bounced back. This could've just been banter or a V/V interaction on our part. He could be a villager for it! Or just a villager. But you seem to be reading his behavior there as really wolfy to the point that you see me as a wolf with him (or at least that's how I interpreted your posting about us). It's really hard for me to parse your confidence, even with your explanation just now, and the thought process around me and Ender. I just think you're reading into stuff with Ender that isn't necessarily there.

And of course, if Ender is a wolf, then you're going to have been right, then I'm going to look awful for making this post, then i might get yeeted and feel I deserved it for playing poorly yet again. Always a risk, and not even too unlikely. You could be right and I could be the dumbass for wolfreading you here. I'm just sitting here with my little perspective and my instinct says "this guy could easily be tryhard wolfing here despite saying he wouldn't tryhard. He shouldn't be trying this hard as a villager, he said he wouldn't try hard and villagers care less, especially when they give slank cover like this." But I'm not even sure if this is a good line of thinking.

It's basically that. I can't express a confident read. Because when I do, I ruin games. My ability to find wolves is bad and does not improve. My ability to find town is hit or miss. I sometimes write godly posts, but I can never recognize when, and I do not pursue it when I do. Me being accused of hedging, and you calling it so wolfy, and you putting so much pressure on me for it, it kinda just feels like you're being opportunistic, especially since you're not looking into why I might be hedging. I feel like that should be a consideration.

I'm talking a lot about myself in this post and it's probably not really helping, but I can't formulate my thoughts about you without talking about myself first and explaining why I'm not giving many reads, especially confident reads. I know that the way I'm reacting to my poor performance in the last game is probably not the best (outright not making confident reads because my last ones were wrong), but the inaccuracy of my reads has been consistent enough lately that I'd rather just give thoughts instead of reads, if that makes sense, and hope that these thoughts help other people - presumably with better reads than me - nail wolves.

I'm not sure how I will operate independently, and I probably won't figure it out this game.

I should end this post here, and I am.

[Vulgard]

Probably just read the part about Pizza, I embellished it a lot with talk about myself and those parts are probably not as helpful.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Just finished my worst towngame in my history of playing mafia, ama.

The contrast between my recent experiences and Pizza's is pretty hilarious.

Tell me about your wolf game as well, but I would like to hear this on a "me not hunting mafia" level, because I am here to socialize, relax, and hear stories and tales and jokes and memes and things.

The first request is srs bsns, but it can wait. Tell me about your bad towngame, because I will respond with one of my own.

And we can share and bond and get to know each other a bit.

Getting to know you through meta diving you is not the entire experience.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I either am on a big delay or we just crossposted so

I just read it and thank you.

May I respond with a wall of my own?

This will be me talking to village!Vulgard.

[Vulgard]

I'm not going to lie - I am a bit concerned about ladd as well for his post about Logic here.


vote logic

seems like an obvious wolf

Same idea as my AOTP concerns, just ignore the part about effort because ladd has barely posted. I don't like the confidence coming into this read, especially since it's a popular take and it feels like an LHF-y target if town. The latter part might be a bit tacked-on and forced in my part, which could lead me to confbiasing the slot, but the first part stands.

[Vulgard]

Tell me about your wolf game as well, but I would like to hear this on a "me not hunting mafia" level, because I am here to socialize, relax, and hear stories and tales and jokes and memes and things.

The first request is srs bsns, but it can wait. Tell me about your bad towngame, because I will respond with one of my own.

And we can share and bond and get to know each other a bit.

Getting to know you through meta diving you is not the entire experience.

My wolfgame is pretty good. I tend to have a good handle on the game as a wolf and I generally know what to say. I can bus, I can defend, I can do most of that stuff. I've strategized mechanically as well, and I have some pretty good wins. I generally feel more confident as a wolf - not only is it my preferred alignment, but I also feel like I actually know what I'm doing, and this is important because the one thing I want the least is being a hindrance to my team. I am never a hindrance to my team as a wolf, at least not these days. I used to be a terrible wolf, but I haven't been one for the last two years. In fact, I view my wolfgame quite highly, while my towngame is something I view quite lowly - though I feel like that's obvious from what I've said about both alignments so far.

https://www.fortressoflies.com/t/pathologic-invitational-day-5-3-11/3770

This is the game in question, which I consider my worst town performance ever. Just reading my first few posts should be pretty telling - I declare a villager the day 1 kill (the villager who ended up saving the game from being lost in MyLo), then I towncore a wolf and maintain that read for most of the game. I proceeded to push a lot of villagers later. I didn't even SUSPECT a wolf until MyLo, and I only really briefly suspected them based on some amount of instinct and the IC mentioning them as possibly wolves. I then tried to argue that the 2 living wolves weren't W/W and that one of them likely wasn't a wolf independently. It was really, really, really bad.

By contrast, I think my worst recent wolfgames weren't lost through the fault of my own. I definitely made some strategic missteps in those games, like not bussing hard enough, but I don't think I was at fault for losing and I think I played decently well. It's remarkably different from my towngames.

[Visor]

vulgard v

[Vulgard]

I'm not going to lie - I am a bit concerned about ladd as well for his post about Logic here.



Same idea as my AOTP concerns, just ignore the part about effort because ladd has barely posted. I don't like the confidence coming into this read, especially since it's a popular take and it feels like an LHF-y target if town. The latter part might be a bit tacked-on and forced in my part, which could lead me to confbiasing the slot, but the first part stands.

Wtf did I write. It's ATPG, not AOTP. What... does AOTP even abbreviate?

[Vulgard]

vulgard v

I did feel like posting that would make me obvious, that's the least I can do.

[Visor]

I did feel like posting that would make me obvious, that's the least I can do.

vulgard w

[Vulgard]

vulgard w

Okay, I laughed.

[EnderWiggin]

Aotp = Attack of the Pizza

[dyachei]

vulgard v

agree with this. I think his self reflection and uneasiness makes a lot of sense and I think that his expression of it is something that wouldnt necessarily be exposed if he were a wolf

[EnderWiggin]

I actually think Vul is V here and there's indications to me that Amy is. Which makes me feel really at odds with Pizza solving. Which normally doesn't happen this badly but it's early d1 and idk if I'm expecting too much.

Lemme get to a computer and actually outline where I am so people can judge these thoughts. Also coffee tell

[Boquise]

read page 4 and 5 (on post 150)
kinda confused because it feels like there is a thread inside the thread or something

Logic slightly wolfy in post 121 and 150 imo tbh

[Boquise]

Bet

Pizza - Probably for their townread of me + response to HK. Mayyyybe meta read on Monty.
Monty - No idea, vote on visor?
Hollowkatt - Probably for this towny sentence "did cape get got or did he swerve correctly after getting got"
Cape - Push on ATPG while ATPG was roleplaying and then retracting that and that being like a towntell. Haha get fooled!

Visor - Hasn't done anything noteworthy so far.

Ender - Entered the game insta voting someone you find towny to blend in? May hav e to do with your Monty read I don't necessarily get yet. Sheeping ATPG?
Taffy - Guessing they feel stilted.

I am so good at mafia gameplay and totally got everyone by suspecting ATPG "on accident" to get townreads as planned.

:cheerleader:

i can probably unpair logic and cape here, me thinks

[Boquise]

pizza's manic energy is undeniably real and probably alignment nonindicative

his insistence that rvs won't end until people give reads on him is... odd, and almost somewhat passive in a roundabout sort of way. there are a billion ways for rvs to give way to Real Content, many of which include him giving reads on other people, and the implication that he himself will not be the one to give the read that ends rvs somewhat concerns me

based purely on recollection [i will NOT be doing research, do NOT ask me to] pizza does have a tendency to adopt a thread-protagonist persona as either alignment, but as villager i think it breaks closer to "i'll lead the charge" vs as wolf being "let's all do this together". his actual game-related comments thus far strike me as slightly leaning towards the latter

that said i kinda don't think i'm actually wolfreading him lol

i think i will town read amy tbh

[Boquise]

From what I have experienced with Pizza, I can say that a lot of the words you are saying are true in terms of Pizza's meta.

Pizza has not actually thrown out that many reads, but he does townread me

What would be "the read that ends rvs" what exactly does that look like? I am not sure enough people are here out of the 17 players to crawl out of RVS quite yet.

Also I hate the last thing you said in this post. Why all of the sudden do a slight backtrack on your thoughts. It literally contradicts what you said "but as villager i think it breaks closer to "i'll lead the charge" vs as wolf being "let's all do this together". his actual game-related comments thus far strike me as slightly leaning towards the latter"

the part you hate is the part i like
i reckon amy as scum would be more careful in choosing her words and also not breaking the narrative of her posts. It is a weak town read but I have seen town do these sort of last sentences more than wolves, because it is such a thing wolves are paranoid town will wolf read them over tbh

[dyachei]

hi boq!

[Boquise]

the secret is that rvs is literally fake and ends at a different point for every player

i, for one, am no longer in rvs. perhaps you disagree, and that's fine!



mostly because vibes, with a side helping of "i'm stupid"

this is also a townie response. There's no defensiveness, no caught with your hand in the cookie jar, though now when i think of it "with a side helping of 'I'm stupid'" sounds a bit like wanting a dumb tell/puppy eyeing the sus away. Still, I think I am overall okay with this response tbh

[Boquise]

hi boq!

hello dya tbh!

[Boquise]

Random aside - I don't think monty is a Wolfy villager, I just think people find it hard to follow his logic sometimes and then assume it must make him a wolf

monty is my soul mate confirmed tbh

[Boquise]

I have only made two intentionally wolfy moves so far. Everything else is just me as me as me.

Here's the fun part though.

I think we aren't aligned, you and I. Maybe it's the closed notebook. Maybe it's something else, but there was something I expected to see from you if you're town that I haven't already seen.

I don't want to push this yet because I prefer playing town/town with you and want to find you if you are on my side. (Look, intentional wordage to imply my towniness!)

But I have my eye on you friendo.

"I have only made two intentionally wolfy moves so far. Everything else is just me as me as me." translates to inside my brain "actually, there are only two legit reasons to wolf read me rn, and i did that intentionally"

which is something i say too when caught for the wrong reason, as either alignment tbh
so verdict is out
but i giggled tbh!

[Boquise]

That's a lot of reads this early in the game. Probably towny, though?

Why do you think it is probably townie?

[Vulgard]

Why do you think it is probably townie?

Keep reading and you'll find your answer.

[Boquise]

It'sa me, Red Waluigi.

Waluigi is a very legitimate businessman. We're like family, capice? Some people I know sleep with the Cheep-Cheeps. Waluigi not judging but not his thing.



Accurate.

this interaction feel like a bad rp tbh

[Boquise]

Keep reading and you'll find your answer.

all you have said on the matter so far is that you got a feeling or something, and then chased your mind. idk man it is weird

[EnderWiggin]

Okay so I've reflected and there's a decent chance my thoughts actually make Pizza towny, but I'm not going to hard lock him either way. He's too good to expect me to do that ever until I have something more solid.

To explain my worldview:

Pizza is always going to be a focus early for me. I love playing with him, and have done it a lot, and finding his alignment correctly is one of my favourite mini games because it's so fracking hard sometimes. When playing together we don't have aligned worldviews always but usually there is an "agreement on some things" that goes on.

Now this is where I've come into the game expecting something from another player and not seeing it. Which should not be wolfy but I have found myself wolf reading it a lot recently. It is something I need to be more aware of. Which is why I'm trying hard to re-evaluate something because Pizza made the F tier reads comment and it struck me that he was right. And I do know better.

The Expectation:

I thought Logic was wolfy in his early posts on a very level 1 Logic way. He's not necessarily an easy catch as wolf but I do find myself sussing his early game content in alignment with how I normally sus wolf!Logic. Caveat IS that I haven't played much with Logic as a whole recently and so I can't be sure how much this meta/feeling is outdated.

#121 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154761-Casual-december-game?p=2053836660&viewfull=1#post2053836660) - Feels like a casual "Pizza is doing things" statement, but the tacked on end of "I thought about doing this but didn't." feels directly appealing to Pizza. (Which I'm noticing on re-read and probably helps if I'm right on Logic wolf anyway.)
#126 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154761-Casual-december-game?p=2053836665&viewfull=1#post2053836665) - Fluff interaction eh
#128 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154761-Casual-december-game?p=2053836667&viewfull=1#post2053836667) - More direct appeals to Pizza with little other interaction
#132 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154761-Casual-december-game?p=2053836671&viewfull=1#post2053836671) - The "Man people are doing silly things and it fooled me haha." read
#133 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154761-Casual-december-game?p=2053836672&viewfull=1#post2053836672) - Wolfy Interesting? :3 Just joking
#140 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154761-Casual-december-game?p=2053836679&viewfull=1#post2053836679) - More Fluff posting
#150 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154761-Casual-december-game?p=2053836689&viewfull=1#post2053836689) - THIS is the post I scumread most because it feels like the classic "Omg you scumread x that I have said nothing about too? I didn't want to say it until someone else did" Wolves do because then they have a shield between themselves and blame when the person flips town. Which I'm more aware of because I think I'm town.
#151 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154761-Casual-december-game?p=2053836690&viewfull=1#post2053836690) - "Make up reasons for me." I did want to see what Logic's justifications were but have yet to, which was part in parcel for my position/pressure.
#194 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154761-Casual-december-game?p=2053836733&viewfull=1#post2053836733) - Pops in to say this in the middle of some growing pressure on him, but doesn't address any of that. Wolfy in the "Engages in sideways discussion for fluff purposes without engaging in the actual game side."
#221 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154761-Casual-december-game?p=2053836760&viewfull=1#post2053836760) - Then pops in later for this, a weird question (wolfy weird!) and still addresses not his own reads list reasons nor the pressure on him or anything else in thread.

This is all hallmark of Old Logic Wolf. Now I could see this as me relying on outdated meta and Logic's play actually has this as either alignment.

BUT others are also seeing this pressure.

And Pizza wasn't.

Now in retrospect "Pizza should see this and idk why he isn't" is a stupid read. Which is why I'm retracting it. But Pizza is a very good reader of Logic and to see him not comment on Logic, nor make any statements other than to sus the growing pool of people pushing towards Logic? Feels bad if I'm keyed into Logic as a wolf worlds.

Amy being same wavelength as me in a casual/meme-y fashion was a good look in my mind, and to find Pizza sussing us both was a weird sensation, which is why I broke my own statement to make the "sussy baka" post at Pizza.

I'll be honest, I regret that post. Not because Pizza sussed me for it. Or anyone else. But because he is correct in that I am making an uncharitable take and I have made snarky comments about that in the past. So I should be extending that grace to my own game if I'm allowed to snark about others. I cannot be mad at others for over-expectation if I do it myself.

Then Vulgard came in and sussed Logic as well and now Visor/spooge/Boq (Was there another? I now forget) seeing the same thing makes me feel more assured that I'm actually seeing something and not jumping at shadows.

So let me be clear. I think Logic is a wolf and will push that.

I feel like I had another reason I wanted to make this post other than just to explain myself in regards to my unfair treatment of Pizza and poke wolf towards Logic, but I don't remember what it was and I now have to get ready for work so eeeeeeeh.

Y'all get this.

[EnderWiggin]

"I have only made two intentionally wolfy moves so far. Everything else is just me as me as me." translates to inside my brain "actually, there are only two legit reasons to wolf read me rn, and i did that intentionally"

which is something i say too when caught for the wrong reason, as either alignment tbh
so verdict is out
but i giggled tbh!

I have been annoyed by this for a while. And yes this is 100% NAI because I can quote games I make this complaint as both alignments. =P

[Boquise]

Unsorted.

I love all of these people and am sad that there's on average 2+ wolves in this list.

https://i.imgur.com/IPJnUUM.gif

Me bracing myself for votes I won't like to make later on.

Please for the love of god be villagery so I have to redo my nulltown pile.

26170

[EnderWiggin]

I honestly probably need to do a data analysis of what possibly could be the difference between games I'm sussed and townread but I haven't yet. And that's on me tbh. I'm too lazy lol.

[Vulgard]

I know you just mentioned this sort of thing as wolfy, Ender, but I did briefly have a thought earlier that it's weird Pizza's worldview doesn't contain Logic as a wolf.

[EnderWiggin]

Ladd was the other Logic susser, I knew I forgot one.

[Boquise]

I'm a level five wolf, and I haven't met anyone stronger than me.

About twenty equals, and individually impressive performances that I would need to be five years younger and with zero kids to emulate.

Level six wolves I have never seen before. But, noated.

im level 9001 tbh

[Boquise]

i sus logic too but i also have a memory that he says awkward stuff as both alignments and is thus an easy target tbh

[Boquise]

cape is probably town though for his push on Amy tbh
it is something i have seen cape as town push folks for before tbh

[EnderWiggin]

i sus logic too but i also have a memory that he says awkward stuff as both alignments and is thus an easy target tbh

I will agree that he does. It is more how he stays disengaged when he re-enters threads and "contributes" without directly addressing the interplay or the wagon on him or anyone else that I find major sus from Logic.

I don't remember him doing that as town.

Again, though, outdated meta from many many moons ago.

[Boquise]

Town

Cape
Hollowkatt
Ampharos

Little Bit Towny

Mont
Visor
Blade

Meh

Sorta Wolfy

Taffy

Quite Wolfy

Logic
Pizza
Vulgard

I have read all the posts, these are my reads. Goodbye.

i was going to scum read you for being overly erratic but now i dont feel like doing it tbh

[Boquise]

But I probably think this because I relate. I mean. You're doing this to me right now.

And before you accuse me of TMIng you town or something, you can be mafia doing this. I currently think you're town but that push is kinda eh upon revisiting the reasoning. I think Ender could've said that as town.

the way vulgard presents their thoughts here reminds me of their town game tbh

[dyachei]

it's way too early in the game for the amount of wall posts I've seen

[Boquise]

It's almost like there is nuance in mafia and not everyone has confident, binary reads on people ~12 hours into a game.

not everyone can be level 9001 sadly tbh

[Boquise]

it's way too early in the game for the amount of wall posts I've seen

i gift you a weak scum lean tbh

[Visor]

it's way too early in the game for the amount of wall posts I've seen

agreed tbh lol

[Boquise]

I am not even voting you, so I do not believe your annoyance levels can be coming from a villager.

You're arguing with me about stuff that catches wolves every game for years. I will not be persuaded my methods don't find wolves.

I can be persuaded they're not finding a wolf right now, in your name. But this isn't the way to convince me of that, and the more you talk to me like I am a villager, the less I believe you're struggling to read my alignment.

But, I do not need to vote you today, as I find it vanishingly unlikely my 4 suspects are all villagers.

pizza has a point though that vulgard's annoyance does not match with the amount of pushback they have received at this point though
unpairing you both tbh

[Boquise]

Enderwiggin immediately getting flustered over mild early game wolf reads, Vulgard doing the same on even less pressure, Amy doing half the passive aggressive wolf tells, and spooge having no process on their leans list with Amy as a top townie.

Followed by most of the day being wolfy banter between most of these, leads me to believe there are multiple wolves engaged in the Defense strategy contained within these names.

then why did you earlier state that at least 2 wolves were in us inactives?

[Boquise]

agreed tbh lol

i will gift this with a town read tbh

[dyachei]

i gift you a weak scum lean tbh

ok

my hatred of wallposts isn't AI though

[Visor]

ok i think cape is a wolf bronanas

(and logic still i think)

[dyachei]

pizza has a point though that vulgard's annoyance does not match with the amount of pushback they have received at this point though
unpairing you both tbh

eh, i know that I get more annoyed than people expect sometimes. Like that seems like a super subjective thing to rate

[Askthepizzaguy]

Modern history of Pizzaguy:

Two sections, me wolfing, and me using that wolfing knowledge to town.

Wolf Section:

On this site, last I was active, I won three back to back to back wolf games. This is not unusual for me, when I won Vengeance By Mafia and Mushroom Fiesta on mafiauniverse I did so simultaneously. Both games started at the same time, ended around the same time. I crush towns to oblivion without much effort, care, or worry. See also the Multiball 19 which is the crown jewel of my wolfing career. I spent literal weeks doing postgame commentary and explaining how I wolf that game, expecting it to be my last game ever.

Wolfing, you have to find all my wolf partners, leave me for dead last, and then yeet me for not finding all the wolves and being murdered for doing so.

That's how you defeat me when I am a wolf, because I antispew and distance too well and am primarily an Intermediate Wolf. That means I survive as long as I can but I set up all the remaining wolves for success by creating unpairing interactions, pairing interactions with villagers, disconnected interactions with partners, distancing and bussing interactions, and then I've been playing against analysis since the first post, planning to die.

I gain all the wolf read I earn for all the villagers I kill and the terrible things I do to the town, and then when town finally kills me, they look to my wagon to find my partners, because I always bus or get bussed.

When you Defend a partner, it's easy to read. You, them, partnership.

When you Distance from a partner, it's easy to read. You, them, partnership.

When you IGNORE a partner, and vice versa, it's easy to read.... ish. You have to be past the point where everyone has a lot of nulls, so this takes to day 2 usually to spot. But it's easy. No read either way, weak hedgy leans either way. It's as partnery as bussing, distancing, or defending at that point.

What is harder to analyze is Bussing.

Because straight up killing a wolf is how town has to win the game.

A wagon of 7 votes appears on a wolf. Some of those have to be townies, but who? Some can be wolves, but even then, they might not be.

Town, in hunting my partners for bussing, will hurt their own townies who are solving properly.

Bussing creates the situation where town has to kill townies for doing things townies have to do in order to win games.

I am also very good at bussing. It's my strategy every game as a wolf, everyone knows it, and it still works, because it is the strongest strategy by far and it is anti-analysis.

7 people on a wolf. You're one of them and town. Which of the other 6 names are my partners? How many of them are?

Now, suppose you find them eventually. Wagon on my partner.

Which of the people on THAT wagon is a wolf? If any?

Remember, you also have to consider people who defended them, ignored them, distanced from them. All of those are also viable, so when I bus 80 percent of the time, the remaining 20 percent is my partners who are NOT getting caught when you suspect bussing.

But I bus and get bussed enough you HAVE to consider it.

Therefore, everyone on the second wolf wagon is a suspect besides yourself. And everyone off wagon as well.

This is why it is infinitely superior to powerwolf defending. As soon as one wolf falls, they all do, and wolves will never not shoot that group of players that all townread each other no matter how many townies they destroy, because at some point they will hit wolf if they keep voting outside of their uninfiltrated group.

It's a fact that the wolves would shoot them. When they don't, town is naive for allowing themselves to get smoked by unnatural mutual townreads that keep yeeting villagers.

That's the simplest possible wolf strategy to analyze and it is the absolutely most visible one. No power wolfing defend wolves attack villagers team has ever not been caught by my analysis in the past 10 years, outside of turbos and mashes.

Distancing is the exact same thing. Townies kill their suspects.

Subbed into a game near lylo, a guy had been wolf reading someone else for like three rounds, casing them, and voting elsewhere. Other guy defended against the case and never really pushed back or wondered why he wasn't pushing his top suspect to death.

That was trivial, I said they were both wolves and they were.

That stuff is so easy to read because it isn't how villagers do. Villagers do vote their suspects and try to kill them to death. They don't make a big case, and stop convincing everyone of their case, and wander away, when the belief is so persistent it lasts three rounds and is the top suspect every day.

You might as well say they're your mason buddy at that point, for how connecting that behavior is.

Ignoring stops being viable around day 2 or day 3 when everyone should have a read on everyone else.

Those three strategies are ass. They suck. They don't work. They're trivial to read.

Bussing: I know the weakness of bussing. It's how I forced three mafiosi in lylo into a mutual bussing death spiral and they straight up conceded.

Bussing does not work when you get no town credit for doing so, was forced upon you by external forces, and when called out for bussing, and it's correct that you're both wolves.

Doesn't work. Just makes you lose faster. That's the counter to bussing is correctly sussing the busser and killing them next.

Then you have to correctly sus the remaining wolf(ves) and that can be hard.

It's not easy to counter bussing. Not at all. Because as long as the wagon is a one in six crapshoot, and you also have to consider every stinkin name NOT on the wagon, you have a pool of suspects that is 8 to 12 names long.

Every time a wolf flips, you gotta find another wolf within 8 to 12 names.

Whereas powerwolf defending strategy that kills townies, it's simple- one flips wolf, I kill the people that unnaturally townread them.

And it's usually just their partner, and maybe a townie that got suckered by it.

I'll take that 50 50 shot because I can cold read townies by process. I will win that 50 50 a lot more times than 50 percent of the time.

Defending strategy works in turbos and mashes, because townies cannot analyze. Defend strategy is strictly bottom tier in slow formats.

It's the worst possible strategy, of them all, by far. At least distancing fools townies, but Defending, anyone can read it. This is trivial. It's level zero or level one, whatever you wanna call it.

Every townie goes: You defended X all day, called em town, didnt look normal, and they were a wolf. Anyone can do this. It's as simple as going who defended the wolf the wolfiest way.

And the number of names for who did it is usually small. That's why finding partner 2 after 1 dies is so easy.

Bussing, find partner 2 in a list of 10 names. Again, find partner 3 in a list of 9 names. Find partner 4 in a list of 7 names.

Bussing gets a wolf to endgame because once everyone in town has killed a wolf, everyone has town credit.

Which means no one has town credit. Everyone is null. Everyone is a suspect. Everyone can have bussed. It is anti-analysis.

The wolf nightkill can land on anyone, because everyone is equally villagery, and everyone knows the wolves hid within the townsiding strategy of bussing.

Everyone alive townsided. Therefore everyone fits the criteria for what the wolf plan was.

Everyone KNOWS the wolf plan. Because by brute force, everyone contributed to that wolf plan, it's the only possible plan that could have happened.

But because of that, all that town credit for yeeting that second wolf is gone.

No one has town credit.

There is no town core.

There are only nulls and suspects.

This strategy destroys every town or forces a LYLO confrontation that usually wins. Bout 80 percent win rate. It hasn't not had one of those two outcomes in 10 years in slow games: town is dead, or town almost lost in LYLO final 3 and barely won.

That's how I wolf.

It works. It almost always wins. In games without an alignment cop I win 95 percent of the time, the last time I checked, and I have some 85 or so slow games as mafia to base that on.

And it's not just the cop, they need to use it specifically to hit the deep wolf, not me. I am not usually the deep wolf. I create the deep wolves, yeet townies, and die gloriously. Cop checking me is therefore not the move. You yeet me without a cop check, always, when I don't find every wolf personally and get nightkilled for doing so.

If you cop check me, it protects all my wolf buddies from being cop checked and outs the cop. Nothing pleases me more as a wolf. I've been in antispew since well before the game began. I once did a gambit that was more than one year long, and resulted in me playing against my own meta for that whole year in order to be townread as wolf. It worked.

I am someone you should put on ignore mode when I flip wolf, because that will help you read the game correctly. Town has correctly done so before, and they won because they did that instead of reading my posts.

That's smart. It prevents me from exploding all the mental land mines I always leave everywhere in my wolf iso. It's the correct counter if you're going to kill me early and I flip wolf. Otherwise, the even better solution, is make me the final wolf, and then kill me dead for not finding the final wolf.

That will literally always defeat me.





Town section:

I use how I wolf to find other wolves. I am the Dark Lord of the Sith who is kinda ticked off at my former associates and wants revenge because I am not part of their little plan right now, and am their target.

I find the wolfy moves, the wolfy plans, the wolfy behaviors, the stuff i have seen win games for wolves over and over and over. And even the ones they lost, this is what they TRIED to do to win.

Sometimes, townies accidentally do moves similar to that.

So I take my execution blade, and I tap them with the flat side of it, and try to figure out they are a townie doing wolfy things before I stab them.

Town wins when town stops killing townies, but still kills someone.

It's as easy as not killing people you townread and townreading townies correctly, and stabbing within the remainder very carefully.

The trouble comes when someone is a level 5 wolf and punks me or does a strategy so unusual and disconnecting that a wolf enters my towncore.

The adjustment now is that, I have reads, but I have no public towncore.

No one can get into my towncore, kill me, and then survive on my legacy reads. That's the adjustment. That's how I stop allowing wolf 4 to win.

Why am I confident it's actually just a battle between me and wolf 4, the only wolf that matters:

Because I will be dead by some means before I find wolf 4.

Doctor dies, strongman shot, no doctor at all, being alive near mid-game also does it.

Every wolf team has people on it that read like a wolf. The lucky ones get someone strong who get townread and then go deep.

That's the wolf I need to find.

I usually have 1 round to find them. Day One, where I have no information at all except what people post.

Finding scummy wolves, easy. That happens almost every game. Failure on this front is now a rare event for me. Once a year kind of deal.

Avoiding yeeting the scummy townies, difficult. That's what I've spent the past five years trying to improve as a process, it involves questioning, processing, and being careful toward my suspects and looking for reasons to disprove my own case work rather than tunnel it.

Causes me to let a wolf go every few games, but also causes me to find 6 townies per round of play. That's a winning trade I will take every game.

Finding townie townies, easy. That's my main focus, it's why my towncores are usually game winning.

Finding townie wolves, that's hard. That I usually cannot do on day one.

It takes deeper analysis, longer time, and I usually need at least 1 flip and 1 nightkill to assist my odds.

After that, I come out strong on Day 2 and I have usually found at least 1 townie wolf.

That's why I need to survive to Day 2, to find wolf 3 or 4, whoever is deep. If I do not, then I just find scummy wolves, they get POEd, town gets complacent, town loses.

Because I find every wolf but one almost every single game. This has been happening since well before 2017 as well, but that was the year I had it with my town game and decided to revamp it because I got really sick and tired of it.

Look at my signature line.

Winston Hughes is the only wolf that survived my suspicions in XCOM.

Montmorency is the only wolf that survived my suspicions in Chess Mafia.

One wolf survived my suspicions in Dark and Stormy Night on MTGS.

One wolf survived my suspicions in the other game on MTGS with 4 wolves instead of three.

One wolf survived my suspicions every game I played that year, just the one. Only one. It happened every game.

Since then, I found most of the wolves in Mafia, Masons, and the Plague. Died because I townread 2 of them in a 5 person team who had the majority of a giant neighborhood and they also bussed a power role wolf day one. I learned from it. But I killed three wolves and a serial killer through my analysis.

I found 3 wolves in Mafia in Spaaace by Kaiveran. Then I let one go because I am an idiot, and allowed a zero posting townie to get yeeted instead of my top suspect the round before LYLO and a different townie snap voted wrong in LYLO.

I found 2 wolves of three in Ticked Off, could not find the third.

I found 1 wolf in Haunted By Slep, on day one, claimed cop, kept the cop alive, and died. Real cop found second wolf. We lost because third went deep.

I found all the wolves in Fight of the Mafia. All 4 of them in five guesses on one round, because they did the wolfy Defend strategy and openwolfed and crushed obvious townies together on day one despite being 2 teams of 2. I shut that shit down hard.

I found 5 of 6 wolves in War of Princes, with the help of a very strong town and a doctor protecting my ass.

I found 3 of 4 wolves in the GITP game Enderwiggin can tell you about, where AvatarVecna punked me, but I destroyed all their teammates by vote or final top suspect pointed at before I was nightkilled.

I found all 3 wolves in Return of the Clowns.

I found almost all the wolves, except the inactive one that lost due to inactivity, in the last game I was playing on Giraffe, forget the title.

I found the final wolf on sub in in Covenant of Darkness, in a POE of exactly 2 names. Was yeeted by my town despite being their cop, and they never eliminated my top suspect despite having time to do so. I townread everyone else.

I found 1 wolf on day one of Friends 17, and 3 wolves that night by analysis, was killed n1. Submitted my guesses to the game host for posterity since I couldn't post my analysis d2.

I found 1 wolf on day one of Gimmicks Mafia, and was nightkilled n1.

I uncharacteristically did not find a wolf at all in Kingmaker. I did correctly sus Vegeta, about three names deep, but never recommended his death, so I cannot call that a catch. A rare complete whiff. I was nightkilled n1 and never allowed to reassesss.

I yeeted a wolf on the first round of a sub-in during Help Test 3. I was a universally scumread nearly d1 yeeted inactive slot. I claimed town poisoner, yeeted one of the 4 wolves, called another wolf a wolf all day before letting them go, corrected my reads on Memory and Lemonfairy who I had as wolf reads but then townread, I correctly POE'ed Triplehaven, and I also correctly POE'd Nanook and said he was unpaired with Memory.

I was nightkilled the first night I was in play, I was also wolf poisoned because of poor coordination on the wolf team, and also wolf redirected, keeping the town masonry which was outed alive, and the town poisoner was able to shoot without molestation, and they shot a wolf, and they bagged a wolf d3, and the final wolf conceded eod3.

I let a wolf go d1 of the Light 13er, he died d1 anyway, I accused the only wolf PR at start of day 2 because of overnight analysis of end of day 1, and he was my top suspect until he died d3, and I accused Wisdom every day, d3, d4, d5, and d6 correctly. Townie voted me incorrectly at LYLO d6. The wolf left me alive for this purpose, it was meant to discredit me, and it worked. Every townie townread me that game until that one townie in LYLO did not. I accused and voted a wolf every round for 6 straight rounds, but had other suspects and I failed big time here. Because of my wolf game, I asked everyone to lay off this person who couldnt townread me in LYLO.

Some unspecified other game. Take a wild guess when I died, and what alignment I was when I died. Not a hard puzzle.

I accused and yeeted a wolf D1 of Climbing the Mountainous. I was alive D2 because I paired them with a townie, yeeted said townie, and was killed n2.

I'm listing off the top of my head, there's a games archive that I need to update which has more games than that, which I am forgetting about.

But basically, I am confident I can find wolves because games where I did not find a wolf happen once a year.

And I follow processes that find wolves and predict what wolves do because it's based on what every wolf has done, on every forum, in every game, in every setup, with every kind of personality, forum meta, culture, and belief system, for half a decade.

It finds wolves because wolves follow behavioral archetypes I can show you happen every game.

They are behaviors that are alignment indicative and I can predict will happen in future games.

In the Light 13er, Wisdom did scumtells I published in 2020. She did them, in spades, in 2022, in the game I accused her for 4 rounds straight.

And I also correctly called out her distancing votes from moth, the wolf PR, and moth's distancing votes on her, not meant to kill because he was universally scumread and could not go deep.

Why I have to go so hard:

I die immediately almost every game because I find wolves.

I request doctor protection because that is how I find the wolves that matter at all, the ones who CAN win the game. I can't find them on day one very often.

I have to solve during the one day I am ever alive.

I have to find the wolf before I die, because I am dying anyway even if I do not find them. See Kingmaker, see Climbing the Mountainous.

Because I cannot tank a night kill for a town PR when I am a town PR, which is why I had to go hard in War of Princes.

My plan, burned out, was to slank that game. Randed a PR.

Guess what I forced myself to do for weeks on end? 100 hours of solving to find all the wolves, because I was a town PR, and had to play it hard.

Didn't have a choice.

Don't have a choice here. Have to find a wolf D1, have to find a wolf N1, have to find a wolf D2, have to survive that long.

Not allowed to do anything else.

Not allowed to slank. Not allowed to go soft. Not allowed to not try. Not allowed to die D1 or N1 this game.

Wanna sit back and meme and joke. Not allowed.

Did not get VT. So I am forced to try to find a wolf.

I lost the rand in a different way.

But before I die, I kill a wolf. That's my entire purpose.

I die before N2 ends, 100 percent of the time in this game. I do not have a choice in the matter.

I am lock clear. I am not allowed to even be the yeet today. I am not allowed to not try.

When I leave the game, there will be 2 or 3 wolves remaining to find.

That is my sole purpose, and it means I cannot slank or joke or meme, and it stresses me out, and I can't keep up the charade of being jokey or memey.

Vanilla town is my favorite role. I am playing a little upset because I wanted a rest game, and I didn't get a rest game.

A wolf rand would have been preferred. It's just rote automatic behaviors at this point. And I stopped caring a long time ago about the wolf win percentage and it still hasn't dipped at all. It's disgusting.

There, I just bared my soul. You now know who I am and my history and why I'm a little bit like sandpaper to the touch at the moment.

If it reads arrogant, understand also, every single time I yeet someone, all my mental demons tell me I am utter dogshit and that I just crushed a townie and that I should stop trying, and that when town loses, it is my fault.

It's agony every single time. I still do it because it's the thing I do that, by my track record, I need to be more confident in doing, instead of constantly shitting on myself when I guess wrong in a guessing game.


I would like to find townies in my scum pile, so I need my suspects' full cooperation with my investigation.

Please and thank you. I'll try to make it as unstressful as possible but I can't abandon the duty I have rn.

Sorry for the wall. It's completely irrelevant to this game, but it tells Vulgard why I am forcing myself to be confident in my processes despite every part of my being also telling me that I am stupid and am bad at this.

It's like an annorexic who thinks they're fat. I consantly think I am the worst townie ever. My track record disagrees.

It takes a lot of willpower to press forward and fight that impulse and destroy wolves anyway.

And it destroys me every time someone shits on me for guessing wrong, too. Because then someone external is telling me all the stuff that I already tell myself constantly, and that affirms those toxic feelings. That happened a few times recently. Hopefully doesn't happen this game either.

I could use a break and am apparently not allowed to have one.

[Askthepizzaguy]

"Casual" december game.

I have duties elsewhere to attend to. I need everyone to post and to make reads I can believe they believe.

Don't care why, don't care how not confident you are. Find a thing to believe, believe it, so I can ask you why and you can know an answer.

I need that data or else everything i do from here on out harms the village.

[ladd]

can you elaborate?

sure thing


But would it really be instant?

wolfy post

I saw these postnums being quoted and assumed they were legit for a minute.

Actual postnum? 130
wolfy post


Interesting use of capital letters.
wolfy post

I don't think that's how you football.
wolfy post

I was thinking the same thing but didn't have the courage to say it right off the bat.
wolfy post

Pizza doing stuff that I won't be able to read until later, most likely after he is dead, where I will go "oh, that was so obvious of alignment in hindsight!"

As for me, I kinda wanted to copy-paste from my last wolfgame here on the org, but that would be solely for pizza's benefit, and I've already devoted 2 paragraphs to him and mentioned literally no one else.
,
wolfy post

[Visor]

sure thing



wolfy post

wolfy post


wolfy post

wolfy post

wolfy post

wolfy post

love it

lock clear

[Askthepizzaguy]

My wolfgame is pretty good. (snip)

Will respond from here when I return.

Don't wait up, I need to sleep after my current activities.

[Visor]

amys 'probably not, no' and ladd's 'wolfy post'

top tier posting keep it up friendos

[Boquise]

I either am on a big delay or we just crossposted so

I just read it and thank you.

May I respond with a wall of my own?

This will be me talking to village!Vulgard.

i am returning my gift to dya tbh

[ladd]

ok i think cape is a wolf bronanas


he was actually one of my few villagers while catching up

https://media.giphy.com/media/gSIz6gGLhguOY/giphy.gif

[Visor]

Vote: Logic

fwiw

though as stated above i do also think cape is a wolf

thx for listening to my ted talk

[Visor]

he was actually one of my few villagers while catching up

https://media.giphy.com/media/gSIz6gGLhguOY/giphy.gif

https://i.imgur.com/9VBPNN3.gif

[Boquise]

read page 4 and 5 (on post 150)
kinda confused because it feels like there is a thread inside the thread or something

Logic slightly wolfy in post 121 and 150 imo tbh

i have finally caught up to where the main character appears tbh
neat

[ladd]

love it

lock clear

26172

[Boquise]

I will agree that he does. It is more how he stays disengaged when he re-enters threads and "contributes" without directly addressing the interplay or the wagon on him or anyone else that I find major sus from Logic.

I don't remember him doing that as town.

Again, though, outdated meta from many many moons ago.

iirc in the last game i played with logic town, he got misyeeted because of awkward posts and being disengaged with his critics. When I am less tired I might go and link to it tbh

like i think logic is wolfy, but i have been burned tbh

[dyachei]

when is deadline?

[Boquise]

26172

i see that you too dont understand how to post gifs here tbh

[Boquise]

ok

my hatred of wallposts isn't AI though

it is a sort of contribution i have seen wolves do tbh

[Visor]

when is deadline?

7pm eastern tomorrow

so 27 hours or something

[ladd]

i see that you too dont understand how to post gifs here tbh

https://media.giphy.com/media/SRx5tBBrTQOBi/giphy.gif

[Boquise]

ok i think cape is a wolf bronanas

(and logic still i think)

i am pretty sure cape is town tbh


eh, i know that I get more annoyed than people expect sometimes. Like that seems like a super subjective thing to rate

i too get annoyed more than people expect, but i also think it is wolf indicative in a vacuum to get annoyed out of proportations. It is subjective and when Vulgard wrote more of his poe i felt like rescinding tbh

[dyachei]

it is a sort of contribution i have seen wolves do tbh

You've seen villagers do it, too

[EnderWiggin]

Pizza.

You deserve the right to be wrong.

And probably hugs too.

I've made my case so I'm now back to chilling.

[Visor]

https://media.giphy.com/media/SRx5tBBrTQOBi/giphy.gif

you gotta uncheck the local hosting box iirc

[ladd]

you gotta uncheck the local hosting box iirc

https://media.giphy.com/media/3i4xTtJQIJk0o/giphy.gif

[Boquise]

"Casual" december game.

I have duties elsewhere to attend to. I need everyone to post and to make reads I can believe they believe.

Don't care why, don't care how not confident you are. Find a thing to believe, believe it, so I can ask you why and you can know an answer.

I need that data or else everything i do from here on out harms the village.

i have directed a few posts to you and i am looking forward to read your replies after i have slept tbh

[Visor]

i am pretty sure cape is town tbh



i too get annoyed more than people expect, but i also think it is wolf indicative in a vacuum to get annoyed out of proportations. It is subjective and when Vulgard wrote more of his poe i felt like rescinding tbh

why

[Ampharos]

>opens thread

>ladd voting the person i'm voting

good work gamers i'll see you all tomorrow

[Boquise]

You've seen villagers do it, too

yes but in general it is wolfy to whine about walls and do nothing else tbh because it is a super easy thing to do whilst you stay relevant in the thread conscious.

[Csargo]

you gotta uncheck the local hosting box iirc

:yes:

[Boquise]

why

because cape as town is bad at getting jokes tbh
also because of how he addressed the amy post he had issues with

it is the modus operandi that i have seen cape as town employ more than he does as scum tbh

[Boquise]

I think Logic is wolfy
but i want him to have space to breathe in case i am wrong

so i will vote here
Vote Kagemusha

[Ampharos]

Ampharos iso and related posts supplementing the read:


NAI


NAI


Vote which is supported later.


NAI
NAI stuff


Addresses the general audience, which is a wolftell of mine, doesn't engage Logic directly, so this is wolfy passive aggression.

If this is a villager sussing someone, then there would be some engagement with the target to determine their alignment as opposed to already pushing a conclusion toward the other jurors.


I believe Ender is a wolf so far, and this is wolfy defense strategy.
Supplemental.



I think this is bad acting. I can't use this as persuasive, but the post doesnt read genuine at all, it has a wolfy tone.


Nonsensical and doesn't engage with someone that, purportedly, they are struggling to read, meaning me.

See next post:



Now I ask a solving question:





Amy does not engage or answer the question.

In summary, mostly wolftells, bad process or nonexistent process, not engaging with someone they're struggling to read, not interested in resolving that person's alignment, speaking to the general audience (the jury) and passive aggressively pushing a conclusion with regard to Logic as opposed to solving Logic in a genuine manner by engaging them.

Two disengagements, multiple bad acting wolfy tone fake posts, loads of passive aggression.

Nothing villagery at all in the iso, period.

briefly addressing this post

i'm not sure if you and i are operating with different definitions of "passive-aggressive" or what, but my post re: logic was in no way intended to be passive-aggressive. if i had wanted to directly question logic, i would have done so; the post isn't directed at him because i don't really think there's an answer he could give to my specific issues with the post in question that i would find satisfactory. sometimes things exist merely to be pointed out, is all

you've bruised my ego with the "bad acting" comment, my shitposting as a wolf is S tier and you shouldn't take a failure of comedy on my part to be anything other than an "amy isnt funny"-tell

"[statements] dreamed up by the utterly Deranged" is a meme, i suggest googling it. i was poking fun of the inherent absurdity of you describing reads using quantum mechanics (which, to be fair, is totally something i would do as well)

as for the last bit, i 1000% missed that post. if you really want me to, i can go back and pull posts, but don't expect me to not grumble about having to do so

[dyachei]

yes but in general it is wolfy to whine about walls and do nothing else tbh because it is a super easy thing to do whilst you stay relevant in the thread conscious.

I'm not doing nothing else though?

[Visor]

I think Logic is wolfy
but i want him to have space to breathe in case i am wrong

so i will vote here
Vote Kagemusha
yikes pal

[dyachei]

amy probably a light v read. it's mostly based on tone. I expect I'll continue to be able to read her and update this as time goes on

[Ampharos]

iirc in the last game i played with logic town, he got misyeeted because of awkward posts and being disengaged with his critics. When I am less tired I might go and link to it tbh

like i think logic is wolfy, but i have been burned tbh

my level 69 read is that this is too blatant a "LOOK AT ME I'M PARTNERED WITH LOGIC" post to actually be partnered with logic

[Ampharos]

amy probably a light v read. it's mostly based on tone. I expect I'll continue to be able to read her and update this as time goes on

thanks boss i'm happy willing resigned to help

[Ampharos]

idk i think pizza being blindingly and brazenly confident in the amount of worldbuilding he's already been doing less than halfway into the first phase of a game where his postcount approaches that of the rest of the game combined is more villagery than not

[hollowkatt]

I grant townreads on gut this early because box in the wolves, 2+2 turbo golden sweep style and have actually had success in so doing five times since September on day 1 or first day of play if it wasn't day 1.

So, not TMI, but gut that's actually getting better at early snapreads. Better meaning above rand, which... wow, thats a huge improvement because my gut is connected to my ass for a reason.

They're the same. My gut is ass, and usually produces poopy reads this early.

humans are one singular tube surrounded by appendages and an electrically charged meat jello that thinks it can think.

[dyachei]

idk i think pizza being blindingly and brazenly confident in the amount of worldbuilding he's already been doing less than halfway into the first phase of a game where his postcount approaches that of the rest of the game combined is more villagery than not

wasnt it you that said the opposite before?

[Ampharos]

wasnt it you that said the opposite before?

i called a completely different bit of pizza's behavior wolfy, sure

don't think i've said a single thing about him worldbuilding

hell, most of it happened while i was out of thread anyways

[luvs2spooge]

Find four wolves not named Vulgard over the course of the game.

That's a pretty high bar to simply not be scumread. Seems like lies.

[luvs2spooge]

Spooge is whatever, can shrugkill and might do that if I don't have a stronger take by EoD.

No real opinion on the others you listed.

Seems like you have no real opinion on me either. But yet you felt the need to state that your null read on me = I can die, yet your null read on the other 3 = no opinion.

Is it because you have the impression that I will be some pointless slot of nonsense?

[luvs2spooge]

it's way too early in the game for the amount of wall posts I've seen

Mood

[luvs2spooge]

I think Logic is wolfy
but i want him to have space to breathe in case i am wrong

so i will vote here
Vote Kagemusha

this reads like you know you are unvoting a wolf

[luvs2spooge]

idk i think pizza being blindingly and brazenly confident in the amount of worldbuilding he's already been doing less than halfway into the first phase of a game where his postcount approaches that of the rest of the game combined is more villagery than not

You've played with Pizza a lot right?

Pizza posting a lot of nonsense that fills the thread is entirely within his scumrange, and if anything is literally his scum game.

[EnderWiggin]

You've played with Pizza a lot right?

Pizza posting a lot of nonsense that fills the thread is entirely within his scumrange, and if anything is literally his scum game.

It's his game.

Not his scumgame.

Not his towngame.

You read Pizza off how he positions in thread and the reads and how the correlate to mafia rather than how much he posts content/worldbuilding.

He outwims everyone in every game I've ever played with him in.

[luvs2spooge]

[QUOTE=luvs2spooge;2053836825]Town

Cape
Hollowkatt
Ampharos

Little Bit Towny

Mont
Blade
Dya
Ladd

Meh

Visor


Sorta Wolfy

Taffy
Boq
Kage

Quite Wolfy

Logic
Pizza
Vulgard

I again have read all the posts, and these are my reads. Goodbye.

[luvs2spooge]

It's his game.

Not his scumgame.

Not his towngame.

You read Pizza off how he positions in thread and the reads and how the correlate to mafia rather than how much he posts content/worldbuilding.

He outwims everyone in every game I've ever played with him in.

I disagree. His town game is not as spammy as his scumgame in my experience.

[EnderWiggin]

Wait who are you.

Why are you familiar to me.

[luvs2spooge]

It's his game.

Not his scumgame.

Not his towngame.

You read Pizza off how he positions in thread and the reads and how the correlate to mafia rather than how much he posts content/worldbuilding.

He outwims everyone in every game I've ever played with him in.

You are saying he posts a lot and you shouldn't read him as scum for posting a lot. You need to read whether his "worldbuilding" and stuff is towny.

I am not saying he is scum for posting a lot. I am saying he is scum for posting a lot of spammy nonsense and reads that don't make sense.

He is doing the latter in this game quite obviously imo.

[Visor]

Sup succdragon

[Ampharos]

You've played with Pizza a lot right?

Pizza posting a lot of nonsense that fills the thread is entirely within his scumrange, and if anything is literally his scum game.

probably less than you think i have, tbh

(but probably more than he thinks i have. pizza, does the MU username "sam" ring any bells?)

but anyways, i don't disagree that it's in his scumrange. i would just be somewhat surprised if he came out the gate in this game feeling the need to go that balls to the wall with the fake worldbuilding as a wolf. like, cmon dude. we've got a guy named spooge in this game. nobody is taking this NEARLY seriously enough for that to be necessary.

[luvs2spooge]

probably less than you think i have, tbh

(but probably more than he thinks i have. pizza, does the MU username "sam" ring any bells?)

but anyways, i don't disagree that it's in his scumrange. i would just be somewhat surprised if he came out the gate in this game feeling the need to go that balls to the wall with the fake worldbuilding as a wolf. like, cmon dude. we've got a guy named spooge in this game. nobody is taking this NEARLY seriously enough for that to be necessary.

Sorry but you are incorrect. Pizza definitely would. Find me one Pizza scumgame that he didn't go "balls to wall" with?

[Visor]

Message from his spooginess for you m'lord

[luvs2spooge]

Sup succdragon

Supdragon

[EnderWiggin]

You are saying he posts a lot and you shouldn't read him as scum for posting a lot. You need to read whether his "worldbuilding" and stuff is towny.

I am not saying he is scum for posting a lot. I am saying he is scum for posting a lot of spammy nonsense and reads that don't make sense.

He is doing the latter in this game quite obviously imo.

I am saying that number of posts is irrelevant and I thought that was part of your argument. That's my bad.

Spammy nonsense/misdirection is in his scumrange, I'll agree.

[EnderWiggin]

I am reserving judgement on if he's obviously doing that here but that might be a me thing. I'll get back to you later.

[luvs2spooge]

I am reserving judgement on if he's obviously doing that here but that might be a me thing. I'll get back to you later.

I think he is faking his reads or overstating them and I think that's more wolfy for Pizza than not. I find his town game contains more moments of clear lack of TMI and his scumgame is just a giant purpose designed mindfuck.

[Ampharos]

Sorry but you are incorrect. Pizza definitely would. Find me one Pizza scumgame that he didn't go "balls to wall" with?

im retired i aint finding jack

(will keep your opinions in mind here)

[Visor]

Amy v

[Vulgard]

love it

lock clear

Ngl I kinda want to clear you both here but it also feels really stupid.

[Vulgard]

If we're all sussing Pizza we can all agree to yeet him so he doesn't have to face the pain of getting nightkilled if town.

[Vulgard]

Did read Pizza's entire wall, by the way.

[Vulgard]

It's kind of ironic because him posting about how he plays wolf and how he plays town and why he plays town in the way that he does has made me want to kill him more.

He feels kinda isolated in the thread though so I have some reservations.

[Vulgard]

It's kind of ironic because him posting about how he plays wolf and how he plays town and why he plays town in the way that he does has made me want to kill him more.

He feels kinda isolated in the thread though so I have some reservations.

Then again, he said he was typically getting bussed by partners.

You have not made this easier, Pizza.

[Cape90]

It's literally in the same thread.

meh, either way my default is to ignore pregame posts as I don't just assume they will be actually related to the game usually

[Cape90]

Because this will largely only help you, anyone else who cares can click the spoiler.

Bladescape knows how I hunt wolves on a very intimate basis. Has seen my guide on hunting wolves.

He knows my scumtells and other means of solving. He admitted he did certain things that are wolfy already deliberately.

Much of the rest of his iso is wolfy and not what I believe Bladescape(enderwiggin) should be doing here as town.

I asked him to play it straight if he's trying to be wolf read by me deliberately. I told Wisdom the same thing in two recent games where they deliberately tried to get a certain player to read them wolf. Once as town, once as wolf because they just did it as town.

Interfering with a townie's solve in that manner is not good teamwork, I find it selfish.

Blades is not a selfish player so he will begin playing the game straight from here on out or my wolf read will stand.

It is clever in the sense that he can, as town, read my solving process and see if I am processing it out like town!me.

But it is selfish and sabotages the team in that it makes my reads list worse when he is town, and causes me to miss hitting a wolf with my vote.

And he is a strong enough WINE-ful wolf that he would absolutely do all this as wolf for the sheer bravado and WIFOM of it.

He also said he's not doing it all deliberately, and the stuff I find not deliberately wolfy is far wolfier than the bits I think he's doing on purpose.

thanks for the explanation here, it has been useful into understanding your thought process

[Cape90]

Vulgard, no idea who this person is. Could be a level 5 megawolf I do not know, zero meta..

Fairly good player. I nullread him for the little I have read. He is a decent wolf and can be a valuable asset if town

[Cape90]

Lean wolf
12. Vulgard
6. luvs2spooge
5. Ampharos
9. EnderWiggin


I guess to update my read on Ampharos, I don't necessarily suspect them anymore just based off vibes.

At least I get something from Ampharos' posts unlike what I have read from Vulgard so far, but I am still in the process of being in catch up mode

Rest of these are decent

Throw in Logic for good measure because their pop-ins after their readslist early on have felt very TWTBAW to me. Which could just be wolf, like at this point in the game, Logic popped in said 1 random thing, then another, then nothing else.

I say at this point as in at the time ATPG posted all of these reads, not so sure about the now just yet

[Cape90]

This is how you play at 50% WIM and while meming?

meme posting does not take that much WIM.

Anyway I wouldn't be mistaken in saying you have literally none :D

I guess unless you show it later :hide:

[Cape90]

But I probably think this because I relate. I mean. You're doing this to me right now.

And before you accuse me of TMIng you town or something, you can be mafia doing this. I currently think you're town but that push is kinda eh upon revisiting the reasoning. I think Ender could've said that as town.


Guess Ender could be mafia, though, in which case you are probably town.

This feels kind of useless to say because it's obvious and relies on a lot of preflips.

You threw yourself into a circle onto to spout the obvious.

Come on even maf!Vulgard posts better then this

[Cape90]

I feel like the idea of hedging being wolfy is severely outdated.

tbh to me it's how you do it and what has the rest of your game looked like in terms of I guess solving etc

that sort of thing

[Cape90]

To assist me in "NotWolfreading" you, please give post numbers or quotes of the things they said you found funny.

Do not tell me why you found them funny.

you call this a solving question?

I call it a filler question

[Cape90]

I'm starting to think you are faking those reads. There's no way you have a confident worldview right now and believe it so strongly.

Me thinking this probably makes you town, though.

how is faking reads towny?

[Cape90]

Opening seems weird and readlist also just weird as well. Saying vibes and then 'figure out the why', strikes me as odd. Everything else seems meh, so I have a pretty negative view on Logic so far.

if you want my charitable thought. Logic wanted to put reasons down but didn't because he didn't have time

[Cape90]

sigh i accidentally closed my tab and lost my post

cliffs:

atpg prob town for d1 (though hes made some weird posts)

csargo prob town (actually this is a horrendous read but yolo lol)

hkatt eh

cape weird

logic wolfy

I swear no matter the game, you always say I am weird bronana. This is easily the towniest I have been with you, but I am extremely biased, but then again, that chris 17er game isn't a hard bar to jump over :p.

In a roundabout way, I think this makes you kind of susp

IDK you were WAY more excited about playing in the last totalwar game we both towned in (I might be lying and I think you found me towny there while everyone else was calling me weird...)

[Cape90]

didnt get jokes

posts had weird tone idk


he gets a :stare:

haven't heard that one before

[Cape90]

haven't heard that one before

(this was sarcasm)

[dyachei]

have you ever considered that you're always weird cape?

[Logic]

Ender/Bladescape is not a zero poster.

I forgot that Blade was the same person as ender.

[Csargo]

if you want my charitable thought. Logic wanted to put reasons down but didn't because he didn't have time

I don't think you put caveats if you have valid reasons as town, but don't have time to put them. I.e. Visor so far this game.

That's my thought anyway