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Oh I have seven votes on me lmao
What on earth was the point of showing up
Not ender?
I am hard suppressing my Ender wolf read for today.
Why'd you self pres onto me instead of onto HK when that wagon came along?
What? I voted you cause I went afk and didn't know if od be back lol
No, it was based on the content of what you both posted throughout. I iso'ed Boquise earlier today and you just now. I could be wrong but that's mafia, right?
Also think your interaction with Visor, such as it is, is highly possible to be w/w.
?as in boq mafia?
I am hard suppressing my Ender wolf read for today.
For reasons or?
Not least because both of you and Hollowkatt saw fit to self-pres on him.
Yeah I actually doubt boq is a wolf reading more
skill issue
?as in boq mafia?
No, I said "that's mafia" as in I'm doing my best but I'm probably still wrong about most things.
Fwiw, I'm sorry for getting angry at you
I'm still not happy with your sniping, but that doesn't give me leeway to be an ass in return
Got no interest in keeping bad blood, so I'm sorry for letting it out in thread
Raskolnikov
12-10-2022, 00:30
Visor (7): Ender, Taffy, Monty, Renata, Csargo, HK, Boq
Ender (3), Ladd, Vulgard, Visor
HK (3): Kagemusha, dya, Cape
Vulgard (1): Amy
EOD in 30 minutes
vote: hollowkatt
I guess
Think we probably should kill ender not least cause we're gonna be back there again tomorrow but what the hey
Good chance I die today and not my problemo
Is that aimed at me or Cape? If me, I had no issue with anything you posted.
Me at you
If you saw the post telling you to daisy off lol
Me at you
If you saw the post telling you to daisy off lol
Oh. Well go daisy yourself then lol.
Please actually give Kage a grilling tomorrow
And Amy too, Amy going slank city after their D1 should be ringing alarm bells (though tbh part of me thinks they wouldn't slank here as a wolf which could be a bad read)
I don't think I have much left I care to talk about
Any questions before the bell tolls? Doubt my opinion will matter much but might as well
I don't think I can go back through a hundred posts for this purpose, not on this site.
Taffy, Cape town from earlier. Leaning town on Vulgard from posting today. Maybe Dya? I'm afraid of them. Town on you also from today.
Boquise probably town, Kage maybe, I don't really know. Monty a little below Kage.
Ladd, I don't know. I tend to like their posting when I read it (aside from the initial vote on Logic from day one) and then I get a little distance and don't like it as much. Nothing consolidated, not going to try today.
Hollowkatt, Visor wolf. Still reading Ender very hard as wolf outside of the more emotional posts, and have decided to suppress that.
Dya's tone read is the only thing keeping me from going back to Amy. In a vacuum I'd lynch her in a second.
Yeah, I don't blame you, I wouldn't either. Thanks
I think grilling Kage is going to be difficult. He doesn't seem very grillable.
Please actually give Kage a grilling tomorrow
And Amy too, Amy going slank city after their D1 should be ringing alarm bells (though tbh part of me thinks they wouldn't slank here as a wolf which could be a bad read)
honestly
fair world tbh
i skimmed latest amy posts and didn't get a whole lot out of it and kage has fell off the face of the earth
i suppose so has amy
i haven't exactly been that active but at least i remember EOD LMAO
I think grilling Kage is going to be difficult. He doesn't seem very grillable.
I think Kage seems like one of the easier pushes this game along with montmorency
I don't think I have much left I care to talk about
Any questions before the bell tolls? Doubt my opinion will matter much but might as well
Pineapple on pizza, yes or no?
I think Kage seems like one of the easier pushes this game along with montmorency
Oh he can be pushed, I just don't think he's going to give back anything very useful and people will mostly read into him rather than read him.
Pineapple on pizza, yes or no?
Hell no
I am partial to blue cheese and caramelised onions though
I hate everything about toDay.
What did you hate?
For the love of Christ y'all better do due diligence on Renata if she survives long, she got a free pass today for being late to D1 but she's a good player so don't just give her a pass for posting reasonable sounding thoughts
What did you hate?
The desperado shot. Having to decide whether or not to keep pushing my strongest wolf read on the chance he was cleared and I just don't know it.
Csargos a better wolf than y'all give him credit for too fwiw
Ah well, y'all will figure it out
Montmorency
12-10-2022, 00:41
wouldn't this thought process be the other way around? I feel like if you are limbait, then mafia would want to push on you, that makes a lot of sense to me
No, they want to push you later. The strategic move is to remove townies who are difficult to oust sooner rather than later. In the three of four games hosted here in two years (by other people), I was the critical ML in all of them. If Visor is town and Town is low-wim D3, that's when they'll circle wagons.
I don't think I have much left I care to talk about
Any questions before the bell tolls? Doubt my opinion will matter much but might as well
Want to try randing with Ender? True rand, rock-paper-scissors battle.
Csargos a better wolf than y'all give him credit for too fwiw
Ah well, y'all will figure it out
Don't remind me.
Kage's like a coin flip imo. vc stuff is something he's done as woof before, plus almost nonexistent d1 with almost no game relevant posts. Feels like he's trying though and hk is a solid vote tbh.
No, they want to push you later. The strategic move is to remove townies who are difficult to oust sooner rather than later. In the three of four games hosted here in two years (by other people), I was the critical ML in all of them. If Visor is town and Town is low-wim D3, that's when they'll circle wagons.
Want to try randing with Ender? True rand, rock-paper-scissors battle.
I'm the two time champ, I'll take those odds
Montmorency
12-10-2022, 00:43
For the love of Christ y'all better do due diligence on Renata if she survives long, she got a free pass today for being late to D1 but she's a good player so don't just give her a pass for posting reasonable sounding thoughts
Don't worry, I'll continue to weakly voice my grievances.
Csargos a better wolf than y'all give him credit for too fwiw
Ah well, y'all will figure it out
Unless maf team has been completely skating I have more confidence on t-Csargo performance than anyone else at the moment, even if not firmly.
Kage's like a coin flip imo. vc stuff is something he's done as woof before, plus almost nonexistent d1 with almost no game relevant posts. Feels like he's trying though and hk is a solid vote tbh.
does he not try as wolf?
Csargos a better wolf than y'all give him credit for too fwiw
Ah well, y'all will figure it out
You think I'm a woof?
Kage's like a coin flip imo. vc stuff is something he's done as woof before, plus almost nonexistent d1 with almost no game relevant posts. Feels like he's trying though and hk is a solid vote tbh.
Weren't you trying to get me on him earlier? What changed
Montmorency
12-10-2022, 00:44
I'm the two time champ, I'll take those odds
Raskolnikov
Vote: Ender
You think I'm a woof?
I think you're good and I haven't quite felt the depth of nuance and curiosity you have as a villa even if I lean that way
Raskolnikov
12-10-2022, 00:45
Visor (6): Ender, Taffy, Renata, Csargo, HK, Boq
HK (4): Kagemusha, dya, Cape, Visor
Ender (3): Ladd, Vulgard, Monty
Vulgard (1): Amy
EOD in 15 minutes
Raskolnikov
12-10-2022, 00:46
Visor (6): Ender, Taffy, Renata, Csargo, HK, Boq
Ender (4): Ladd, Vulgard, Monty, Visor
HK (3): Kagemusha, dya, Cape
Vulgard (1): Amy
Weren't you trying to get me on him earlier? What changed
I was asking your opinion. pizza's opinion
Lol pizza forever
Sacred blue mon ami
Ladd still a wolf
Y'all getting snowed
Ladd/boq/Renata/X
Now that'd be a spicy team
Maybe it is Kage on that
Glgl
Oh can't forget taffy, yes
Well that about does it for me unless someone wants to tie it
does he not try as wolf?
trying was probably the wrong word and I'm not really sure how to explain it properly sorry.
Kage is a slanker regardless so you're reading the tea leaves anyway
His narrow focus is Wolfy imo
Few more posts to say you killed the top poster d2
Gl killing ender and hkatt back to back lol I hope at least one flips wolf
Why do I always die d2 on these clusterfucks lol
I blame gh
EnderWiggin
12-10-2022, 00:55
If Visor is red then at least one of those late-day susses are also wolves.
But here I am having last 5m doubts.
Hardclaim unkillable neutral serial killer
Dead air dead villager that's how the saying goes right
Alright so what worlds exist FMPOV
Earth
HK (or Kage)/Monty/Amy/x
or
HK (Kage)/Renata/Csargo/x
Combination of the 2 above worlds likely
Raskol dresses up as Marie Antoinette in his spare time
EnderWiggin
12-10-2022, 00:57
Dead air dead villager that's how the saying goes right
Yes.
Please flip red.
Still pretty sure that Hollowkatt does but not enough want to vote there.
Ladd W
Y'all fuckers gonna lose to him I swear
Montmorency
12-10-2022, 00:57
Kage is a slanker regardless so you're reading the tea leaves anyway
His narrow focus is Wolfy imo
Few more posts to say you killed the top poster d2
He was one of the strongest townies in Chess, though admittedly it was his best performance in my experience.
Dead air in a competitive spread can mean a coiple things
Visor is so town dudes...
Raskolnikov
12-10-2022, 00:58
Raskol dresses up as Marie Antoinette in his spare time
https://media.tenor.com/wgkPy8pGP6UAAAAd/true-its-true.gif
At some point in n1 I thought: I'm gonna have to take this game seriously if I want to live
Goddamnit it past me why couldn't you be more convincing
so many ppl frozen this EOD for no reason, it sux
Visor is so town dudes...
No I'm a wolf, read the room
More not wanting to flip Hollowkatt when I all but offered to if numbers allowed.
Go rams
Lol pizza
Rest of you can eadycp
I hope you kill the top poster tomorrow too
But that's not where the counterwagon went.
Raskolnikov
12-10-2022, 01:01
stop posting, D2 has ended.
5 minutes for corrections.
Raskolnikov
12-10-2022, 01:04
EOD2, Visor has been yeeted under the sun! He flips vanilla town
Visor (6): Ender, Taffy, Renata, Csargo, HK, Boq
Ender (4): Ladd, Vulgard, Monty, Visor
HK (3): Kagemusha, dya, Cape
Vulgard (1): Amy
SOD3 in 24 hours (7 PM EST)
orders one hour before deadline yadayadayada
https://media.tenor.com/oDZGB3unEuwAAAAC/eurythmics-sweet-dreams-are-made-of-this.gif
Raskolnikov
12-11-2022, 01:01
SOD3, Cape90 has been killed! He flips vanilla town
England has been defeated, you may proceed.
hollowkatt
12-11-2022, 01:05
fuck England, all my homies hate England
Montmorency
12-11-2022, 01:05
You can't convince me that Pizza didn't shoot me.
*Shrug*
Also if Visor is town after that blatant attempt to claim the shot then idk what this game is.
No more kids' gloves, it's time to acknowledge that Ender is the linchpin to the entire game, and there's nothing good about the guy.
ladd
dyachei
Lettuce defeat Ender.
Vote: Ender
hollowkatt
12-11-2022, 01:06
also vote: dya
Raskolnikov
12-11-2022, 01:08
links to stuff in the OP btw
Csargo, hollowkatt, Montmorency, Ampharos, dyachei, EnderWiggin, ladd, Vulgard, Boquise, Renata, Totally not Taffy, Kagemusha
SOD3, Cape90 has been killed! He flips vanilla town
England has been defeated, you may proceed.
vote: Raskolnikov for being French
vote: Hollowkatt
I really want to bring Pizza back from the dead so I can use the vig shot I don't have on him out of spite.
EnderWiggin
12-11-2022, 01:13
If someone has a desperado shot I welcome you to shoot me and die so I can get past this.
Busy rn but will be back
EnderWiggin
12-11-2022, 01:14
I reckon I was right on Monty yesterday lmao.
If someone has a desperado shot I welcome you to shoot me and die so I can get past this.
Busy rn but will be back
It would be better than the lynch.
Montmorency
12-11-2022, 01:25
Raskolnikov
If the majority of players vote affirmatively, allow me to desperado Ender.
It would be better than the lynch.
If hollowkat is scum, he should be with Boquise. Do you believe that? If not, help me defeat Ender. Or vote me a shot.
Raskolnikov
If the majority of players vote affirmatively, allow me to desperado Ender.
If hollowkat is scum, he should be with Boquise. Do you believe that? If not, help me defeat Ender. Or vote me a shot.
Vote you a shot?
What are you talking about?
Also, lay out your argument that they're teamed.
hollowkatt
12-11-2022, 01:34
Raskolnikov
If the majority of players vote affirmatively, allow me to desperado Ender.
If hollowkat is scum, he should be with Boquise. Do you believe that? If not, help me defeat Ender. Or vote me a shot.
yeah explain how I'm paired with boq
Montmorency
12-11-2022, 01:35
Vote you a shot?
What are you talking about?
Also, lay out your argument that they're teamed.
Strong interactions of the sort that mafia like to engineer between each other. I don't have either in my POE, but if one is scum the other should have equity with them.
hollowkatt
12-11-2022, 01:37
Strong interactions of the sort that mafia like to engineer between each other. I don't have either in my POE, but if one is scum the other should have equity with them.
bruh boq and I real timed for like 30 minutes once this entire game. For the most part there's zero interaction between the two of us.
hollowkatt
12-11-2022, 01:37
vote: monty
Strong interactions of the sort that mafia like to engineer between each other. I don't have either in my POE, but if one is scum the other should have equity with them.
Details would be nice.
Montmorency
12-11-2022, 01:47
Details would be nice.
bruh boq and I real timed for like 30 minutes once this entire game. For the most part there's zero interaction between the two of us.
They were a good 30 minutes.
vote: monty
All for redirecting votes from you.
hollowkatt
12-11-2022, 02:07
They were a good 30 minutes.
All for redirecting votes from you.
So 30 minutes real time is enough for you to say I'm hard paired with partnering interactions, got it.
Yeah, I'm keeping my vote here b/c you're either agenda filled or fishing for something to save your own skin. Is Ender now town for you?
Montmorency
12-11-2022, 02:16
So 30 minutes real time is enough for you to say I'm hard paired with partnering interactions, got it.
Yeah, I'm keeping my vote here b/c you're either agenda filled or fishing for something to save your own skin. Is Ender now town for you?
Reread D3 and rethink your worldview.
hollowkatt
12-11-2022, 02:31
Reread D3 and rethink your worldview.
nah, I'd rather vote the obvs wolf
i still think ender is a wolf if that's what you're asking monty
Montmorency
12-11-2022, 02:44
nah, I'd rather vote the obvs wolf
Really digging your grave, huh?
Let's recap D3:
I rally the thread around voting Ender, which I still am, and have been all game.
You bare-vote dya.
Renata votes you.
I remind her that there's good reason to think HK-Boq share alignment, where IIRC Renata has thought of Boq as town and sussed you for voting him.
You get super defensive and vote me, claiming that I'm saving my own skin (how? from what?).
The question here is if you actually believe in what you're doing.
hollowkatt
12-11-2022, 02:59
Really digging your grave, huh?
Let's recap D3:
I rally the thread around voting Ender, which I still am, and have been all game.
You bare-vote dya.
Renata votes you.
I remind her that there's good reason to think HK-Boq share alignment, where IIRC Renata has thought of Boq as town and sussed you for voting him.
You get super defensive and vote me, claiming that I'm saving my own skin (how? from what?).
The question here is if you actually believe in what you're doing.
I always believe in what I'm doing.
And yes, I bare-vote dya because I don't feel like digging up my quotes where I sus'd dya before, assume it's the same reasons.
idgaf about Renata voting me they can do what they want.
I'm focused on you insisting I am linked to Boq based off of 30 minutes of real time in a thread that now has more than half a week worth of hours played and I think you're fishing for something/pushing me with agenda.
If you're rallying the thread around Ender why aren't you pairing Ender and myself? I've been vocal about how I think Ender is town, I've given him a town read off of what should be extremely flimsy reasoning that I have barely explained but you seem not to care about that and instead of saying something along the lines of "HK is wolfing with Ender, here's why, and I think he's doing that because it behooves the wolf team to spew either HK town off of an Ender wolf flip or spew Ender town off of a HK wolf flip" which are really easy arguments to make you're literally pairing me with the dude that I have some of the least amounts of real time interaction, and very little interaction outside of that real time because why, exactly?
So yeah, that's where I'm at
Sussed him for voting Boq (and Dya) in a wishy washy way, not for voting him at all.
Not sure it matters unless somebody's going to try to get me to lynch Boquise before Hollowkatt.
Montmorency
12-11-2022, 03:06
I always believe in what I'm doing.
And yes, I bare-vote dya because I don't feel like digging up my quotes where I sus'd dya before, assume it's the same reasons.
idgaf about Renata voting me they can do what they want.
I'm focused on you insisting I am linked to Boq based off of 30 minutes of real time in a thread that now has more than half a week worth of hours played and I think you're fishing for something/pushing me with agenda.
If you're rallying the thread around Ender why aren't you pairing Ender and myself? I've been vocal about how I think Ender is town, I've given him a town read off of what should be extremely flimsy reasoning that I have barely explained but you seem not to care about that and instead of saying something along the lines of "HK is wolfing with Ender, here's why, and I think he's doing that because it behooves the wolf team to spew either HK town off of an Ender wolf flip or spew Ender town off of a HK wolf flip" which are really easy arguments to make you're literally pairing me with the dude that I have some of the least amounts of real time interaction, and very little interaction outside of that real time because why, exactly?
So yeah, that's where I'm at
As I have emphasized across this entire page, I am pushing the opposite of you being a wolf, with perhaps the most overt bit me stating that you are not POE.
Do you - want - me to scumread you? I'm having a very hard time understanding your sudden shift in tone and behavior.
hollowkatt
12-11-2022, 03:44
As I have emphasized across this entire page, I am pushing the opposite of you being a wolf, with perhaps the most overt bit me stating that you are not POE.
Do you - want - me to scumread you? I'm having a very hard time understanding your sudden shift in tone and behavior.
Raskolnikov
If the majority of players vote affirmatively, allow me to desperado Ender.
If hollowkat is scum, he should be with Boquise. Do you believe that? If not, help me defeat Ender. Or vote me a shot.
This is where I'm getting tripped up then. If you're pushing the opposite of me being a wolf why are you attempting to pair me with boq, again, that's the weird thing that doesn't make sense which is why I jumped on that because it felt like it came completely out of left field in a way that I can't understand how you got there.
hk paired with Boq, what an odd thing to get defensive about
Montmorency
12-11-2022, 04:03
This is where I'm getting tripped up then. If you're pushing the opposite of me being a wolf why are you attempting to pair me with boq, again, that's the weird thing that doesn't make sense which is why I jumped on that because it felt like it came completely out of left field in a way that I can't understand how you got there.
Are you sure you aren't performing an ironic bit that subtly inverts the characterization of Boq-HK interactions in projection onto Mont-HK?
If hollowkat is scum, he should be with Boquise. Do you believe that? If not, help me defeat Ender. Or vote me a shot.
HK-Boq either m/m or t/t, so if not m-Boq then ignore HK and focus on Ender. Renata declines because she is confident that you can be treated sequentially, maybe not believing in the parallelism.
hollowkatt
12-11-2022, 04:14
that feeling when the other guy who lives in your house is watching tv on the tv your ps5 is hooked up to so you can't go start a low level run of Final Fantasy 8 b/c you finally realized that leveling is dumb as fuck b/c monsters scale with your party level unlike literally every other FF ever made
#FirstWorldProblems
hollowkatt
12-11-2022, 04:16
Are you sure you aren't performing an ironic bit that subtly inverts the characterization of Boq-HK interactions in projection onto Mont-HK?
HK-Boq either m/m or t/t, so if not m-Boq then ignore HK and focus on Ender. Renata declines because she is confident that you can be treated sequentially, maybe not believing in the parallelism.
I'm not smart enough to perform bits, but thank you
anyways, the way you presented it didn't read as if you were saying "HK and Boq are always the same alignment". You presented it as "if HK is a wolf it is with Boq" which is why I got hung up on it.
If you could clear that up I'd be appreciative.
Montmorency
12-11-2022, 05:13
I will not be allowed to desperado Ender.
I'm not smart enough to perform bits, but thank you
anyways, the way you presented it didn't read as if you were saying "HK and Boq are always the same alignment". You presented it as "if HK is a wolf it is with Boq" which is why I got hung up on it.
If you could clear that up I'd be appreciative.
"if HK is a wolf it is with Boq" is a corrolary of "HK and Boq are always the same alignment." They're not inconsistent, and neither assertion implies that one or more of HK or Boq IS mafia.
:verycool:
Why are you doing that in the middle of our exchange? Is it a message? Is it equivalent to
https://i.imgur.com/xT9vZak.gif
26196
I will not be allowed to desperado Ender.
"if HK is a wolf it is with Boq" is a corrolary of "HK and Boq are always the same alignment." They're not inconsistent, and neither assertion implies that one or more of HK or Boq IS mafia.
Why are you doing that in the middle of our exchange? Is it a message? Is it equivalent to
https://i.imgur.com/xT9vZak.gif
26196
It was to the final fantasy post.
Montmorency
12-11-2022, 05:21
It was to the final fantasy post.
https://i.imgur.com/osckZxP.jpg
hollowkatt
12-11-2022, 05:46
update: the man has gone to bed. unfortunately I am getting tired and I'm also preparing tomorrows bread for baking. FML
hollowkatt
12-11-2022, 05:47
I will not be allowed to desperado Ender.
"if HK is a wolf it is with Boq" is a corrolary of "HK and Boq are always the same alignment." They're not inconsistent, and neither assertion implies that one or more of HK or Boq IS mafia.
Why are you doing that in the middle of our exchange? Is it a message? Is it equivalent to
https://i.imgur.com/xT9vZak.gif
26196
sure, corollary makes some amount of sense, but the optics of which is was presented heavily intimates wolf, not "paired alignment"
Ender
If you are town
I want you to yeet Visorslash today.
Vote: Visorslash
Do you say 'If you are town' when you're gonna blow up ender?
Do you say ' i'm kill ender after I kill vulgard' if you're gonna blow up ender?
Feel like the context clues point to vulgard being the target.
Too bad that's useless I guess. :wall:
Montmorency
12-11-2022, 06:14
No more Pizzagesis. I'm interpreting his death as a WOG.
Sirs.
sup, got my boxing match today (which is also the reason i have been afk-ish until now) so i won't be here at all
i'll be back monday and i should have more time from monday on
vote: ender
i could write a poem about why ender and amy are wolves and wolves together
maybe i will
:curtain:
hollowkatt
12-11-2022, 07:37
i could write a poem about why ender and amy are wolves and wolves together
maybe i will
:curtain:
ender and amy sitting in a tree
w
o
l
f
i
n
g
first comes chops
then comes kills
then comes the wolf team with the lulzy thrills
Renata's kinda defensive about Ender flipping woof:
If Ender turns up wolf ever this EoD going to be fun.
Doesn't mention Ampharos.
It is fake?
Ok, if Ender is mafia then Visor is the save. It's not me and I don't think it's Cape.
Tring Boq, Cape, Taffy not really explained
wooflean to townlean on vulgard no idea why. I didn't see any reason to change that read in their iso given how much time seemingly went into arguing the opposite.
Case on hk, and woof lean on ender all make sense to me. Arguments about visor were valid imo.
Feels like Renata kinda just wants to keep ender around while woof leaning them the whole time tbh. tonal stuff d1 to vote logic iirc and atpg fiasco d2 to say maybe cleared(?) I assume.
Switched off hk to try and protect Ender for some reason?
I know Ender effectively has one more vote on him from Hollowkatt (coming from offwagon).
vote: Visor
Talked about moving to hk and people not wanting to go there.
Visor (6): Ender, Taffy, Renata, Csargo, HK, Boq
HK (4): Kagemusha, dya, Cape, Visor
Ender (3): Ladd, Vulgard, Monty
Vulgard (1): Amy
EOD in 15 minutes
Visor (6): Ender, Taffy, Renata, Csargo, HK, Boq
Ender (4): Ladd, Vulgard, Monty, Visor
HK (3): Kagemusha, dya, Cape
Vulgard (1): Amy
HK was a valid option imo.
Reads being all over the place is kinda whatever to me, it happens. Proclaiming to want one thing then doing another is just weird. When the votes were tied Renata moved from HK to Visor, and then later lamented how nobody wanted to yeet HK, while it clearly was a possibility.
Woof reads were fine, town reads were lacking in their iso, at least in the why a lot. Treatment of ender really weird and EoD2 odd, posting generally fine imo, maybe a lot of pointless questions? Hard to tell tbh.
Vote:Renata
Raskolnikov
12-11-2022, 09:00
Ender (2): Monty, ladd
Monty(1): HK
HK (1): Renata
Renata (1) : Csargo
I’ll respond to you more thoroughly when I’m on computer Csargo but if Ender winds up being lynched and is a wolf this post of yours is hella TMI. It makes no sense to go after me for not wanting to lynch him if he’s town, and you should not know that he isn’t.
Like, this is the kind of case you make on somebody after a scum flip happens, not while the suspect is still alive. What is in this post to justify this vote aside from ?weird about Ender?? She doesn?t focus on her town reads very much and she changes her mind a lot? That?s not a wolf read.
Renata's kinda defensive about Ender flipping woof:
Doesn't mention Ampharos.
The first comment was popcorn.gif; the second was Visor related I think.
Ampharos wasn't relevant at the point I made that first comment. I was referring both times to the three last votes on Logic from Visor, me and Cape that put Logic as the lynch ahead of Ender. I think Ampharos by the time this happened was down to two votes and not in danger.
Tring Boq, Cape, Taffy not really explained
wooflean to townlean on vulgard no idea why. I didn't see any reason to change that read in their iso given how much time seemingly went into arguing the opposite.[/quote]
This is accurate, but is it scummy? Let's be real here, you're trying to characterize that giving no reason for a changed town-read on someone you (Csargo) are heavily implying to actually be town (since Ender in the above argument is scum and *somebody* got shot by Pizza yesterday) is scum motivated. It just isn't. This whole comment from here onward is you calling me "weird" (TM), often literally. Pizza would fucking shish-kebab you for this post.
My opinion on Vulgard changed throughout the course of the last day. He had several posts that dropped the hedgy wording and looked focused and interested and just real. I never got a chance to bring it up before real life intervened, and when I got back, the whole Pizza fiasco had happened and I lacked both time and motivation for putting together an iso to show why. So I just mentioned my switch on Vulgard in passing.
I'm never going to apologize or explain away a focus on scum reads over town ones overall. I know it's not the meta, and I know it makes for an easy push on someone in some context. I'm still not going to change until and unless I become comfortable with it again.
It is not scummy to focus on the scum.
Case on hk, and woof lean on ender all make sense to me. Arguments about visor were valid imo.
My arguments on Visor were hot trash. It was 90% tone read, strong-wolf paranoia, and Pizza sheepage, with just enough meat around the edges to hold it all together. The other two are not trash.
Feels like Renata kinda just wants to keep ender around while woof leaning them the whole time tbh. tonal stuff d1 to vote logic iirc and atpg fiasco d2 to say maybe cleared(?) I assume.
Switched off hk to try and protect Ender for some reason?
"For some reason", seriously Csargo. You're looking at my iso as you're writing this, it can't be that difficult to figure out what was going on in my head. I am certain I put in writing multiple times at various points about how I was conflicted about whether or not Ender actually was cleared by Pizza. I switched opinions at least twice, and at the end of the day was in the mindset that I didn't want to take the chance of making a compete fool of myself by lynching him if he was cleared town and I was just too stubborn about my own reads to acknowledge it.
Again here you are kind of TMI-ing Ender-wolf when if you are really reading my "weirdness" as scum-motivated, you should be giving at least a little thought to the idea that I might have been motivated by fear of pushing a lynch of a cleared townie.
Talked about moving to hk and people not wanting to go there.
HK was a valid option imo.
I was in a world where I'm seeing both Hollowkatt and Visor as scum, and treating Ender as not. Both of them had voted Ender at one point to self-pres, and I figured I could assume they would both go back on that bandwagon again if they needed to. This is why I originally switched to Visor from Hollowkatt. I wanted to put some distance between Ender's vote count and the two of them, and since I was already on Hollowkatt, the only way I could do that was by switching. If this was MU with automatic vote counts and easy refreshing of the page, I would have switched back to Hollowkatt and then gone back to Visor at the last second if it looked like they were trying to save each other by piling on Ender again. Since it's the org instead, I wasn't willing to risk getting sniped without noticing. When Cape voted on Hollowkatt, my mental accounting had it as needing one more reliable (meaning not Visor) vote on Hollowkatt for it to be worth it for me to switch. That last vote never came, so I stayed on Visor.
If Ender is a wolf, going after me for yesterday's voting is 100% valid, because I did act to save him, and openly and transparently so. Doing so now, when he can still be town, and that's the only real reason in this entire post that you have for voting me? Nope.
Reads being all over the place is kinda whatever to me, it happens. Proclaiming to want one thing then doing another is just weird. When the votes were tied Renata moved from HK to Visor, and then later lamented how nobody wanted to yeet HK, while it clearly was a possibility.
As mentioned above, it wasn't. I needed one more vote. I probably should have just asked for it.
Woof reads were fine, town reads were lacking in their iso, at least in the why a lot. Treatment of ender really weird and EoD2 odd, posting generally fine imo, maybe a lot of pointless questions? Hard to tell tbh.
Vote:Renata
(Bolded in that last bit is mine.)
I don't know, maybe you are just puzzled by me, but we have here a post that is half trying to turn "she's weird and I don't get her" into a scum read and half "she was obviously trying to protect wolf-Ender (who hasn't actually flipped wolf)" and I am having trouble believing that it's real.
Right back at you buddy. vote: Csargo
There's a broken quote in the last post. The line "wooflean to townlean on Vulgard no idea why" is from Csargo.
Kagemusha
12-11-2022, 12:31
People switching to Visor late at the last phase would be good to look into before not too long. Hollowkatt is still the best lynch in my books and should have been lynched already yesterday Vote: Hollowkatt
If one more person had switched to the wagon he would have been.
Did you vote for him, Kage? (yesterday)
Kagemusha
12-11-2022, 13:01
I voted Hollowkatt and sticked with it. Visor was in the gray area in my books, while most of the last day phase he seemed mighty scummy with all that flip flopping.
Hopefully Hollowkatt is just right.
EnderWiggin
12-11-2022, 13:53
Do you say 'If you are town' when you're gonna blow up ender?
Do you say ' i'm kill ender after I kill vulgard' if you're gonna blow up ender?
Feel like the context clues point to vulgard being the target.
"If you're town" suggests he shot me.
Because if I'm not town I'm dead.
But if I am town he's dead and he wants me to carry his torch.
EnderWiggin
12-11-2022, 13:57
If I'm not wrong on Renata then I agree that Csargo post looks sus.
Okay, that's enough of that.
Hardclaiming Town Desperado. ATPG's role was a 1-shot desperado that gives its role to its target if the target is town. I was the target, so I now have the role - and I also have a shot, because it refreshes. I am going to flip vanilla town if I hit town, and the town that I hit will get another desperado shot, but will only be able to use it tomorrow.
Phew. That was a mouthful.
I severely doubted Ender yesterday for trying to clear himself from ATPG's shot because I had TMI on him not getting hit. It was me that was the target, so him trying so hard to get himself cleared felt like he didn't know how ATPG's role worked and was trying to take advantage of the lack of information to make himself look better. I was sideeyeing that the whole time, and I really would've preferred him to have been yeeted yesterday, not Visor. I think I even said as much in my legacy post from yesterday, but whatever.
Now I have a desperado shot, and before you say anything, I already know who I am punting it into. I am punting it into ladd. The reasoning is twofold: Visor said that ladd was snowing us, and a town!ladd getting shot makes him an IC, which I believe we need and which I believe he can turn into something beneficial for town. I would've shot Visor today had he not been yeeted yesterday, to the same effect. Also, remember that the town I shoot gets the desperado role and can fire a shot on the next day, so even if I misfire by shooting ladd, he can still take someone out - or make someone an IC - tomorrow.
I currently believe that ladd will flip mafia, in which case I will not die, but i will also lose my desperado and no one else will be able to become a desperado. But that's also fine. We need a wolf flip.
"Why not shoot Ender?"
I don't want to shoot Ender because I believe that Visor might've been right. He might've been right in that we are getting collectively snowed, and in such a world, Ender is likely to be a villager, as he's been wagoned for two consecutive days. However, if ladd is town, I believe you should kill Ender, because ladd being town makes the "we have been snowed" world less likely - Visor specifically pinpointed ladd as snowing us. If ladd is mafia, we will figure things out from there, as I will be alive.
I have alluded to wolves probably not having a role that can prevent me from confirming myself. Now I can reveal that this role would've been a mafia vanillarizer. Nothing else can affect this role at night, outside of outright death. I haven't been told that I don't have the shot, so I believe I should still have it.
/shoot ladd
This is unnecessary, but I just want to make it perfectly clear who I'm shooting. You know, after... yesterday.
Visor threw suspicion on Csargo, Kagemusha, Amy, and ladd as he died. He also did want to kill Ender, which I believe you should finally do if ladd is town.
Glgl. If ladd is mafia, I'll obviously continue posting, as I will be clear. If ladd is town, I die and flip vanilla town, while ladd inherits my desperado role, gets a shot tomorrow, and is also clear. Do not tinfoil my target if I flip vanilla town.
If I'm not wrong on Renata then I agree that Csargo post looks sus.
This is easy to say. Why.
Okay, that's enough of that.
Hardclaiming Town Desperado. ATPG's role was a 1-shot desperado that gives its role to its target if the target is town. I was the target, so I now have the role - and I also have a shot, because it refreshes. I am going to flip vanilla town if I hit town, and the town that I hit will get another desperado shot, but will only be able to use it tomorrow.
Phew. That was a mouthful.
I severely doubted Ender yesterday for trying to clear himself from ATPG's shot because I had TMI on him not getting hit. It was me that was the target, so him trying so hard to get himself cleared felt like he didn't know how ATPG's role worked and was trying to take advantage of the lack of information to make himself look better. I was sideeyeing that the whole time, and I really would've preferred him to have been yeeted yesterday, not Visor. I think I even said as much in my legacy post from yesterday, but whatever.
Now I have a desperado shot, and before you say anything, I already know who I am punting it into. I am punting it into ladd. The reasoning is twofold: Visor said that ladd was snowing us, and a town!ladd getting shot makes him an IC, which I believe we need and which I believe he can turn into something beneficial for town. I would've shot Visor today had he not been yeeted yesterday, to the same effect. Also, remember that the town I shoot gets the desperado role and can fire a shot on the next day, so even if I misfire by shooting ladd, he can still take someone out - or make someone an IC - tomorrow.
I currently believe that ladd will flip mafia, in which case I will not die, but i will also lose my desperado and no one else will be able to become a desperado. But that's also fine. We need a wolf flip.
"Why not shoot Ender?"
I don't want to shoot Ender because I believe that Visor might've been right. He might've been right in that we are getting collectively snowed, and in such a world, Ender is likely to be a villager, as he's been wagoned for two consecutive days. However, if ladd is town, I believe you should kill Ender, because ladd being town makes the "we have been snowed" world less likely - Visor specifically pinpointed ladd as snowing us. If ladd is mafia, we will figure things out from there, as I will be alive.
I have alluded to wolves probably not having a role that can prevent me from confirming myself. Now I can reveal that this role would've been a mafia vanillarizer. Nothing else can affect this role at night, outside of outright death. I haven't been told that I don't have the shot, so I believe I should still have it.
/shoot ladd
This is unnecessary, but I just want to make it perfectly clear who I'm shooting. You know, after... yesterday.
Visor threw suspicion on Csargo, Kagemusha, Amy, and ladd as he died. He also did want to kill Ender, which I believe you should finally do if ladd is town.
Glgl. If ladd is mafia, I'll obviously continue posting, as I will be clear. If ladd is town, I die and flip vanilla town, while ladd inherits my desperado role, gets a shot tomorrow, and is also clear. Do not tinfoil my target if I flip vanilla town.
Thank god.
I want to point out one thing that you may or may not already have realized. If you say who you targeted, now that the mechanism of the shot is known, that person (if town) could be nightkilled. I don't know what happens to the desperado shot then. But this may be why Pizza didn't say it clearly.
EnderWiggin
12-11-2022, 14:08
This is easy to say. Why.
Something something positioning and things you already said.
I say easy things because I believe em.
EnderWiggin
12-11-2022, 14:12
I was actually despairing at the fact that I think ladd was wolf and I was probably going over anyway so.
Vul confirming town makes me feel a little better about my worldstates. If Ladd somehow is town too then I'll accept going over because I don't think Ladd is going anywhere else but I'll try to make some sort of legacy. We should have 1 more day.
EnderWiggin
12-11-2022, 14:14
I'm going to put my re-read on hold just to see how this flips because fuck doing work only to see it wrong.
Thank god.
I want to point out one thing that you may or may not already have realized. If you say who you targeted, now that the mechanism of the shot is known, that person (if town) could be nightkilled. I don't know what happens to the desperado shot then. But this may be why Pizza didn't say it clearly.
That is true, but it's also kind of WIFOMy, because no protective role has flipped and it might still exist in the setup. Wolves are taking a risk attacking the clear. They didn't attack me, for instance, even though yesterday I alluded to being able to confirm myself today. Which I am doing right now.
This is likely my last post until a flip happens, gl.
EnderWiggin
12-11-2022, 14:17
Also the read I used to clear Vul on D1 proves to be correct again. I really need to stop doubting myself lol
That is true, but it's also kind of WIFOMy, because no protective role has flipped and it might still exist in the setup. Wolves are taking a risk attacking the clear. They didn't attack me, for instance, even though yesterday I alluded to being able to confirm myself today. Which I am doing right now.
This is likely my last post until a flip happens, gl.
Good luck.
EnderWiggin
12-11-2022, 14:25
I will defend myself tho.
I believed with all of the context evidence I brought up that I was the one shot.
EnderWiggin
12-11-2022, 14:36
(I also believe the context clues, perhaps intentionally now I know about the role, were pointing at me too.)
So 30 minutes real time is enough for you to say I'm hard paired with partnering interactions, got it.
Yeah, I'm keeping my vote here b/c you're either agenda filled or fishing for something to save your own skin. Is Ender now town for you?
i dont see the stretch.
Our real timing ended up with both of us town reading each other after we had placed votes on each other
It can easily look like distancing tbh
Placing my vote on someone I actually think is more close to how they approach games as scum than as town. Dya's protection is there, and I do think that makes Dya and Amy always the same alignment.
wolf!Dya would not protect town!Amy for too long because Amy is an easy misyeet in that case, and I reckon Dya as a wolf would want to cash in protecting Amy eventually.
I do not think town!Dya would misread wolf!Amy.
Hence both are either wolves or town together tbh.
Really digging your grave, huh?
Let's recap D3:
I rally the thread around voting Ender, which I still am, and have been all game.
You bare-vote dya.
Renata votes you.
I remind her that there's good reason to think HK-Boq share alignment, where IIRC Renata has thought of Boq as town and sussed you for voting him.
You get super defensive and vote me, claiming that I'm saving my own skin (how? from what?).
The question here is if you actually believe in what you're doing.
i think monty is town through these posts (the one i am quoting and above). I think the way he is lying out the puzzle pieces in the open is town indicative tbh.
Renata's kinda defensive about Ender flipping woof:
Doesn't mention Ampharos.
Tring Boq, Cape, Taffy not really explained
wooflean to townlean on vulgard no idea why. I didn't see any reason to change that read in their iso given how much time seemingly went into arguing the opposite.
Case on hk, and woof lean on ender all make sense to me. Arguments about visor were valid imo.
Feels like Renata kinda just wants to keep ender around while woof leaning them the whole time tbh. tonal stuff d1 to vote logic iirc and atpg fiasco d2 to say maybe cleared(?) I assume.
Switched off hk to try and protect Ender for some reason?
Talked about moving to hk and people not wanting to go there.
HK was a valid option imo.
Reads being all over the place is kinda whatever to me, it happens. Proclaiming to want one thing then doing another is just weird. When the votes were tied Renata moved from HK to Visor, and then later lamented how nobody wanted to yeet HK, while it clearly was a possibility.
Woof reads were fine, town reads were lacking in their iso, at least in the why a lot. Treatment of ender really weird and EoD2 odd, posting generally fine imo, maybe a lot of pointless questions? Hard to tell tbh.
Vote:Renata
this re-affirms my town read on csargo and makes it a strong town read
Yesterday I tried to poke the stuff Pizza said about Renata to see how the thread would react, considering how they were not being suspected at all. I wanted to see how many people came to defend/town read Renata. Iirc only Monty and one more person did (need to check who that was). I was wondering whether this could thread spew Renata town or at least unpair her with the peeps who came to defend her. I'm not really sure what my conclusion is or how to interpret it, but I do feel like it is a key thing in the solve
Ender (2): Monty, ladd
Monty(1): HK
HK (1): Renata
Renata (1) : Csargo
if ender is town, i think ladd could be scum, regardless of my own read of ladd. Because if Ender is town, ladd has strictly pushed only townies. This would mean that Amy is town too
Raskolnikov
12-11-2022, 14:56
Ladd has been killed! He flips mafia goon.
You may proceed.
Csargo, hollowkatt, Montmorency, Ampharos, dyachei, EnderWiggin, ladd, Vulgard, Boquise, Renata, Totally not Taffy, Kagemusha
Raskolnikov
12-11-2022, 14:56
Ender (2): Monty, ladd
Monty(1): HK
Csargo (1): Renata
Renata (1) : Csargo
Amy (1): Boquise
Montmorency
12-11-2022, 14:57
I was once again asking the thread to turn on Ender, and in response the players get all wack.
This is a more lost and fragmented Town than usual, huh.
Csargo >> Renata >> HK >> Monty >> Ender
And then Renata had to break the chain with the OMGUS.
I wonder if we could have ended the game then and there had Enderwiggin dropped in to close the loop by voting Csargo.
(I wouldn't be surprised if Mafia are setting up antispew through derailing conflicts throughout the day as Ender gets hard-bussed.)
Raskolnikov
12-11-2022, 14:57
Ender (1): Monty
Monty(1): HK
Csargo (1): Renata
Renata (1) : Csargo
Amy (1): Boquise
EOD in 34 hours
Montmorency
12-11-2022, 14:57
Csargo's post on desperado mechanics could be PIS from partnering with Ender, but honestly Pizza pretty-well softed that he would be hitting Vulgard, that there were multiple shots somehow - and then Vulgard softed a PR to boot.
What this means, of course, is that if ladd is town, and Ender is scum, and we do the smart thing and oust Ender, then we're looking at 5-3 with ladd dead and me alive. Or, I guess the Mafia gamble it all on ladd misfiring - a false ladd desperado D4 brings the balance to 4-3 on the spot.
Vulgard , have you considered just clearing Ender please? Like, if you quick-draw on Ender and live to tell the tale, you effectively just cleared ladd anyway, whereas if Ender is town at least you're clearing someone with more consensus negative equity than ladd.
Please consider it.
this re-affirms my town read on csargo and makes it a strong town read
Yesterday I tried to poke the stuff Pizza said about Renata to see how the thread would react, considering how they were not being suspected at all. I wanted to see how many people came to defend/town read Renata. Iirc only Monty and one more person did (need to check who that was). I was wondering whether this could thread spew Renata town or at least unpair her with the peeps who came to defend her. I'm not really sure what my conclusion is or how to interpret it, but I do feel like it is a key thing in the solve
Blech. Even if the paranoia about Ender/Csargo in my response is misguided, Csargo trying to read me scum for being confusing and not fleshing out my townreads is not a good look.
Montmorency
12-11-2022, 14:58
NEVER YOU MIND
Sorry ender, let's get to business.
@Ladd has been killed! He flips mafia goon.
You may proceed.
Visor and Vulgard goats.
Heckuva timing with that post Monty.
Montmorency
12-11-2022, 15:02
Damn, Pizza and I shared most of the same D1 pings, and they've been thoroughly wrong.
Did I curse Pizza to a wack game?
But then Amp is probably town. Kage instead?
I suspect Vulgard will be getting protected again.
Montmorency
12-11-2022, 15:05
Blech. Even if the paranoia about Ender/Csargo in my response is misguided, Csargo trying to read me scum for being confusing and not fleshing out my townreads is not a good look.
I will admit Csargo looks worse for the structure of his case on you with Ender town. Or maybe better said, since Ender is town I believe your recursive pushes with Ender in the periphery are not a distancing stratagem and you are anti-paired.
All right, who tf is still alive.
1. Visor
2. Csargo
3. Hollowkatt
4. Montmorency
5. Ampharos (Amy)
6. luvs2spooge
7. dyachei
8. ATPG
9. EnderWiggin
10. Cape90
11. Ladd
12. Vulgard (still alive)
13. Boquise
[COLOR="#0000FF"]14. Logic
15. Renata!!!!!
16. Totally not Taffy
17. Kagemusha
Thank you for the !!!!! btw Ras.
Montmorency
12-11-2022, 15:06
I take that back somewhat, since Pizza chose a good town leader at least.
EnderWiggin
12-11-2022, 15:07
I am glad I'm not completely whack.
Someone said something about Ladd difference check with Logic d1 wanna think about that.
Ignore the partial tag after Boquise, fucked it up.
I'm primarily looking at Csargo, Hollowkatt, Amy (I don't pair her and Dyachei as much as Monty Boquise is if it all) but any or all of that could be wrong. Time to look at Ladd.
I will admit Csargo looks worse for the structure of his case on you with Ender town. Or maybe better said, since Ender is town I believe your recursive pushes with Ender in the periphery are not a distancing stratagem and you are anti-paired.
Is Ender actually proven town? He's not, right? Just likely to be.
EnderWiggin
12-11-2022, 15:10
Is Ender actually proven town? He's not, right? Just likely to be.
I am not mech town.
I believe Ladd's push on me should be good light but if you wanna believe he was bussing sure.
*Boquise* is the one who was talking about Amy/Dyachei linkage, not Monty or "Monty Boquise".
I shouldn't be playing mafia when I'm this exhausted but if I waited to be alert before doing stuff I'd never do it so I'll just apologize for incoherence and move on.
Montmorency
12-11-2022, 15:13
Dyach and Vote: Kage look funny today, with tentative anti-pair with HK. Though the converse applies if m-HK.
Taffy still a blind spot.
I am not mech town.
I believe Ladd's push on me should be good light but if you wanna believe he was bussing sure.
How much was he talking up your wagon D1/2 again?
I have in my Mafia career hard-bussed my partners from start to end in maybe one or two games (which has unfairly stamped me with a reputation...). From my understanding of the thread ladd has been on you consistently without even trying to build credit for himself. If that's all accurate I would place you at 90% town.
EnderWiggin
12-11-2022, 15:14
No if Logic is town we could wolf Ladd lol.
Oh.
This is why Luvs died.
EnderWiggin
12-11-2022, 15:16
On me correctly reading you d1? Like a three, maybe four. I'm not confident at all tbh.
I think vulgard is town. ladd have no idea. ender seems similar to other games, where they've been a woof that I've been in. Ampharos is fine other than the stuff pizza brought up.
Noting this from Csargo.
EnderWiggin
12-11-2022, 15:17
enderwiggin
This was my other early wolfread and i dont have time to catch up
Convo with pizza early on felt like he was trying to back off from the fight in a wolfy way without actually conceding the point iyam
I have seen wolves do it a ton of times when they dont want to get in a fight with specific players
This was on D1 when Ladd peeled off Logic.
He never stopped pushing me from here.
EnderWiggin
12-11-2022, 15:17
Dyach and Vote: Kage look funny today, with tentative anti-pair with HK. Though the converse applies if m-HK.
Taffy still a blind spot.
How much was he talking up your wagon D1/2 again?
I have in my Mafia career hard-bussed my partners from start to end in maybe one or two games (which has unfairly stamped me with a reputation...). From my understanding of the thread ladd has been on you consistently without even trying to build credit for himself. If that's all accurate I would place you at 90% town.
Forgot to tag you but see my most recent post.
EnderWiggin
12-11-2022, 15:18
Logic (4): Amy, Ender, Vulgard, Renata
Ender (4): Ladd, Csargo, dyachei, Logic
Visor (1): Montmo
HK (1): Taffy
Luv2spooge (1): HK
Renata (1): Kagemusha
Boquise: (1): Visor
Ampharos (1): Boquise
Ladd (1): luv2spooge
EOD in 1 hour and half
Just adding to the reasons I think Ladd spews me town.
Dyachei/Amy/+1, probably.
Placing my vote on someone I actually think is more close to how they approach games as scum than as town. Dya's protection is there, and I do think that makes Dya and Amy always the same alignment.
wolf!Dya would not protect town!Amy for too long because Amy is an easy misyeet in that case, and I reckon Dya as a wolf would want to cash in protecting Amy eventually.
I do not think town!Dya would misread wolf!Amy.
Hence both are either wolves or town together tbh.
Yeah.
Feel like this is the opportunity to take some momentum back from the wolves.
I agree with Ender that we shouldn't kill him rn. Maybe reconsider later but ladd led the wagon on him two days in a row and flipped mafia.
Logic (6): Amy, Ender, Vulgard, Taffy ,Visor, Renata
Ender (5): Ladd, Csargo, dyachei, Logic, Cape
Ampharos (4): Boquise, Visor, Renata, Montmo
Luv2spooge (1): HK
Renata (1): Kagemusha
Ladd (1): luv2spooge
Most likely an all-town wagon on Amy right here.
Who was the person trying to argue on d2 that there's no way luv was killed for having his vote on ladd when he died?
EnderWiggin
12-11-2022, 15:26
alrighty i am done with d1
i think ender is a wolf:
1) his interactions with pizza are a perfect example of how wolves approach a villager they don't want to get a fight into with If you read their interactions, ender is always subtly hinting at pizza that he wants the discussion to be over, despite not really conceding the point
2) i was with him on the logic wolfread to start but then when logic came back and he posted a lot better he just kept going to bury him. it doesnt feel like he is sorting him out he just wanted to kill him iyam. framing his play as "logic wouldnt give himself up like this as a villager" (or something along those lines) is not genuine nor true considering logic was making posts like this:
3) bunch of thoughts that are made to look villagery but actual villagers don't actually have (e.g. the reaction test on the monty vote, the "lets wait 20 hours" obvious wolf) and are made to look performative
if ender is indeed a wolf i think amy has to die 100% and is probably a wolf for this post and eod in general:
they were switching to a logic villa read but once ender became a wagon they had this forced turn aroudn back to voting logic
imo they should have had more doubts on logic being a wolf
same kinda applies to visor, i feel he generally is more paranoid about luches ike the logic one as a villager?
tho idk if visor/amy works together (maybe it does!) and i think amy post above was way worse
and even individually i think amy is wolfy, visor is kinda w/e
my strongest villa reads are cape/vulgard
then pizza/taffy (idk if i mentioned them but i really liked a string of posts they had on..some page. it was v genuine imo)
then i villa lean a bunch of people but i could easily be wrong on them -csargo/monty/dya/boq/HK
i gotta go, will try to read up on d2 tomorrow
Might be Amy town?
Hm thinks.
Might be Amy town?
Hm thinks.
You think so? The wolfread on Amy is contingent on you being mafia, which... you shouldn't be.
EnderWiggin
12-11-2022, 15:29
Who was the person trying to argue on d2 that there's no way luv was killed for having his vote on ladd when he died?
Pizza.
Pizza.
Lol. I was about to be "yeaaaaaaaah maybe look at that individual."
EnderWiggin
12-11-2022, 15:30
You think so? The wolfread on Amy is contingent on you being mafia, which... you shouldn't be.
He goes on to say "Amy is just wolfy"
I was "hm thinks" because it's weak and he absolutely could do that to partner Amy but was just tossing the thought out there.
EnderWiggin
12-11-2022, 15:30
Also it's like 1:30am and I should be asleep.
So I'm going to revisit any read I make here in the morning.
I feel like that's within the realm of distancing, but that's my opinion.
Also it's like 1:30am and I should be asleep.
So I'm going to revisit any read I make here in the morning.
Please go to sleep.
EnderWiggin
12-11-2022, 15:31
i am going to town read ladd now tbh
which means sheeping
vote ender
also, if amy is a wolf it means i was awesome yesterday tbh
This kinda feels on the nose for w/w?
EnderWiggin
12-11-2022, 15:34
ok i'm caught up
trying to organize my thoughts
i'm catching myself falling into the trap of "this game is really hard if [other top wagon from d1] isn't a wolf" but i seem to not being the only one thinking that? with the obvious caveat that i'm also being thrown in that pile by others, but still
the towniest posters thus far today are renata, pizza, and visor, probably in that order
i'm not reevaluating my cape townread, i am reevaluating my vulgard townread but i quite frankly have no real idea what to do with him now, because a lot of his posts today have struck my brain at such a strange logical angle that i can't really make any sort of alignment-indicative sense of them
i think monty's d2 has been really towny and i kinda want someone who knows him better than i do (visor maybe?) to sanity check me on that because i feel slightly insane for saying it
ladd is town and i think my reason for it is kinda stupid. i don't think w!ladd would have any reason to bus w!ender when there are a fair few other suspects with momentum today (e.g. hypothetical v!vulgard, e.g. myself), and in a w!ladd v!ender world i don't think ladd would want to tie my alignment so directly to ender's and risk undermining his wolfread on me when ender flips
"amy surely that isn't the sole thing you're townreading ladd on" idk i think his d1 was a villagery sort of incorrect. i honestly don't think i'm a very good ladd reader, the one other game i've actually played with him he snowed me hard
can't say i came out of this catchup with any super explicit wolfreads but i think that's largely because i did a fairly surface level reading in order to prioritize not getting stuck in thread backlog hell, and i find that doing that kind of catchup tends to be a lot better at catching villagers than wolves for me
think my current gamestate perspective is, like. there's a big-ish pile of people that i was weakly townreading/nullreading yesterday, and i need to get a much better handle on them today, because i think the vast majority of wolves are in that pile. talking people like... dya boq hk kage. that's not a wolfreads list or even really the full suspects pool but i think i would be really, really surprised if there's not at least one in there.
i feel pretty decent about all my strong townreads and i'm not really gonna worry about that side of things unless the game gets hard (read: ender flips v LMAO)
i've also chosen to make a conscious effort to not care about people wolfreading me. if people have direct questions i'll ask em. otherwise i'll hope that i'm able to towntell better today, and if not, whatever
stay tuned for when this particular aspect of my strategy fails, because it's in my nature to get frustrated and uncomfortable when i'm wolfread, but i would really like for it to not be!
Nm that's over-explainy wolf tell right there about ladd.
EnderWiggin
12-11-2022, 15:34
Please go to sleep.
I have excitement and energy for this game for the first time in like 72 hours lemme ride it for a lil bit
Montmorency
12-11-2022, 15:35
TOWNCORE
Mont
Vulg
Ender
POSSIBLY TRUSTWORTHY
Renata
LOVERS
Boquise
HK
NULL
Taff
:stare:
Csargo
Amy
Dyach
Kage
Dyach-Kage-HK tentative antipair
Csargo-Renata antipair
Dyach-Csargo antipair (mafia team would not crowd onto townie wagons D1)
I agree with Ender that we shouldn't kill him rn. Maybe reconsider later but ladd led the wagon on him two days in a row and flipped mafia.
Three days technically.
Most likely an all-town wagon on Amy right here.
Renata and I both look bad for switches if Amy is scum, and for keeping her in the POE sweet spot up to now. Would you argue that ladd is Rule-of-Threeing Amy in that wall?
Also, I note that in the wall ladd labels Cape as his top town read. Dyachei did so as well D2, in #1708. Slips?
Can you try personally resolving Amy tomorrow? Or is your power exhausted?
Idk, I've thought Amy is probably mafia since I cased her on day 2 and barely anyone has engaged with that case, at least while I was present.
I agree with boq that dya/amy being same alignment is probably a fair assessment, and that's the reason why I want to go in their direction. I also pointed out when casing Amy that her townread on ladd was super contrived, and with ladd being a wolf this is even more noteworthy.
Vote: Amy
Probably best to go here first?
Nm that's over-explainy wolf tell right there about ladd.
If Amy is a wolf, dya/boq/hk/kage feels like a rule of 3-type of post. Would expect a partner in that group.
Why are Boquise and HK labeled as lovers on your list?
EnderWiggin
12-11-2022, 15:38
i am almost caught up finally
cape's thought process was a believable one for a villager to have and one that i don't think wolves would even think about
yours is something wolves THINK villagers do while they actually rarely do
your posting on d2 also seems wolfy, all your pushes feel fake:
monty is a wolf cause they are low impact? cmn really lol
renata is wolfy cause of too many wolfreads...when thats village indicative if anything ime
again this feels too level 0
Kinda wanna say this post = One of Monty/Renata wolfy?
Or ladd was just going hard to the paint on getting me.
EnderWiggin
12-11-2022, 15:40
villagers
ladd - lack clear
taffy - genuinely lack clear for their d2 posting and post 1375 is just never from a wolf
cape - the obvious villager by solving
vulgard - the obvious villager by solving #2+ i am a sucker for some of their more "emotional" posting and i buy it. also my guess for who got shot by pizza
renata - never played with them but they post extremely sharp and very direct. not trying to appease at all and notices/pushes things wolves don't imo
leaning villa
csargo - similarish to renata but a bit less strong. good thoughts/solving
dya - i havent been too hot in reading dya lately but i think the way they are making reads at their own pace and the SNARK everytime anyone dares to shade or wolf read them is >>>rand villa
upper PoE (mostly villa leans that i don't feel strong enough about)
boq- has done even less than me eheh. but when he posts i agree with everything he says just dunno if its enough to really move him up
HK - push on pizza d1 was villagery, d2 posting seems fine. keeps going after players who he should know will bite back (pizza,dya) which is rand iyam
monty - dunno maybe he should be the tier below but i bought some of his d1 posts (the yolo team guess, the pushback on ender). if ender is a wolf i think he looks ok
low PoE (null but leaning wolf by PoE)
visor - i mostly read visor by how much he is pondering different scenarios/being paranoid about the direction the game is taking cause ime thats his biggest villa tell. i don't really see it in his d1, kindaaaa see it in his late d2. couple of posts also give me the creeps (post about cape and 1 about monty around mid d2)
kage - ngl the formatting made me skip their huge post and the rest of the posts do nothing for me (and push on HK feels weak)
wolves
ender - refer to my big post
amy - refer to my big post+ their wall post feels like a wolf making a huge post to get people off them
this is where i am at
i still think we should flip ender. if he is not a wolf gimme the desperado tonight, like for real
if he is a wolf, always kill amy next
Worth thinking about this.
Montmorency
12-11-2022, 15:42
Why are Boquise and HK labeled as lovers on your list?
See first page of D3. :creep:
EnderWiggin
12-11-2022, 15:43
I'm not advocating for letting both of them live till LyLo, but if there is another shot tomorrow they can shoot within the two of them (being clear about their target this time) and we'll have a townclear either because the shooter dies and we yeet the one that wasn't shot or the wolf dies and the other is clear. Today's elimination should be about other people imo.
If there is no second shot we yeet one of them right before LyLo so at least we know where to vote if we're wrong. Tell me if I'm overlooking something.
Also realised why Asks pretended to be the desperado himself, that way if he lived the wolves wouldn't be tempted to go PR hunting. So at least that part now makes sense to me.
This post in context kinda feels unpaired from ladd too.
it's hard to keep speaking up for amy when she barely comes into the thread anymore, but that's not really AI for her. If it is, I'd expect more effort out of wolf!amy
No more kids' gloves, it's time to acknowledge that Ender is the linchpin to the entire game, and there's nothing good about the guy.
ladd
dyachei
Lettuce defeat Ender.
Vote: Ender
This is one of the boldest posts I have ever seen if it's w/w/w.
Yeah.
Just going to note for the record that the dynamic most similar to dyachei-amy here that I ever saw corresponded to wolf dyachei/town amy. I think Boquise's conjecture that wolf!Dya would be inconvenienced by never being able to vote town!Amy is doing a lot of heavy lifting and could easily be wrong. And the other half (town Dya could never be wrong) is just uncharitable. If Amy's *that* obvious of town, then Dyachei shouldn't be the only one able to say so.
EnderWiggin
12-11-2022, 15:45
ladd is lean villager so is taffy. I think the way taffy's approaching the game is decent. I find myself nodding along with his posts
This comparatively is a rand wolf. (Explains Taffy but not ladd.)
Just going to note for the record that the dynamic most similar to dyachei-amy here that I ever saw corresponded to wolf dyachei/town amy. I think Boquise's conjecture that wolf!Dya would be inconvenienced by never being able to vote town!Amy is doing a lot of heavy lifting and could easily be wrong. And the other half (town Dya could never be wrong) is just uncharitable. If Amy's *that* obvious of town, then Dyachei shouldn't be the only one able to say so.
Yeahhh maybe it's unsafe to assume they're same alignment but I definitely want to kill in there.
This comparatively is a rand wolf. (Explains Taffy but not ladd.)
usually when ladd wolfs, he's quick to call me a wolf and he wasn't doing that when i questioned him
Where did you question him?
EnderWiggin
12-11-2022, 15:53
What lots of info will we learn with an Ender flip? ladd
I'm kinda putting Boq in the "Not now" pile for this post alone.
EnderWiggin
12-11-2022, 15:56
some worlds i have been thinking of:
ladd disregards pizza maybe shooting Ender for the sake of his own read on Ender.
Visor loudly declaring that both he and ender are town
both discrediting Pizza's play. Visor more so.
I was thinking of ladd's possible scum motivations versus town motivations
If ladd is scum, Ender is always town. He is trying to ignore some semi-mech and make the thread do so to get an "impossible" yeet, as in, getting a cleared Ender chopped. This is within ladd's wolf range. However, would he be so direct with it? Not walking towards it carefully? Instead of TMIing Ender town by simply mentally eliminating him as a possible target and go for someone else?
Like if both Visor and Ender are town, and ladd is scum, he could just as easily park on Visor tbh
Or ladd is town and just really really believes in his scum read and will go for it over the semi-mech stuff. He is however not pleading for people to follow him because he is so sure, instead he goes ciao eventually and c'est la vie.
I think by occam's razors, ladd is town tbh. It is way more similar to his modus operandi as town than scum tbh.
I think Visor as scum needs to belittle pizza's play and move the focus elsewhere from the semi-mech. It is interesting though that Visor wants to move it away from all three of him, vulgard and ender tbh. However, as town I expect him to play similarly, so it is a tough cookie tbh
Okay Boq is towncore tbqh
also + about lunching ender besides 1)hopefully getting us a wolf, 2) solving eod1wagons and 3)giving us lots of info on whats going on
is that if he is a wolf you get a free vulgard v peek
The post of Ladd's that Ender highlighted Boquise's response to. I'm not sure whether or not "solving eod1wagons" is a suggestion that he's going to go after Amy in the event of an Ender town flip, but it might be.
EnderWiggin
12-11-2022, 15:58
I don't think I can go back through a hundred posts for this purpose, not on this site.
Taffy, Cape town from earlier. Leaning town on Vulgard from posting today. Maybe Dya? I'm afraid of them. Town on you also from today.
Boquise probably town, Kage maybe, I don't really know. Monty a little below Kage.
Ladd, I don't know. I tend to like their posting when I read it (aside from the initial vote on Logic from day one) and then I get a little distance and don't like it as much. Nothing consolidated, not going to try today.
Hollowkatt, Visor wolf. Still reading Ender very hard as wolf outside of the more emotional posts, and have decided to suppress that.
Dya's tone read is the only thing keeping me from going back to Amy. In a vacuum I'd lynch her in a second.
Not a hard read but that quote is in the range of wolves talking about wolves.
EnderWiggin
12-11-2022, 16:01
Vote: Dyachei
I think this I believe more than Amy.
I kinda like Renata a lot but I am noting things.
Boq is just town.
Monty is not w/w with Dyachei but if Dya is town then Monty is definitely someone I'd sus.
Revision of thoughts to happen in the morning.
I'm now collapsing now that I've done a quick check through all of game thread for Ladd interactions
I wish I'd been around for day one. My reaction to Ladd's initial vote on Logic was that it was "dogshit".
Montmorency
12-11-2022, 16:09
taffy is a wolf because there is no attitude, just treading water, no push, no sassitude, just posting reasonable sounding thinsg while not moving the game state forward
this seems completely opposite to how they seem to be posting
afaict they have plenty of attitude/sassiness
dya is a wolf for the lack of game progression and focusin gon the logic read LOL (and the amy white knight is eh)
maybe if it was 2 years ago but their meta changed a ton
Antispew?
hollowkatt is a wolf cause mac sucks donkey balls and always gets reads like tha twrong and hkatt hasnt hit the towny explanation standards i like from him
did you read the sorcerer game you hosted? i don't think he is posting differently from there
(but i concede he may be a wolf)
Notably different treatment of HK vs. dyachei and Taffy - antipaired to HK?
sometimes ww is an easy game and you get to clear people for free
https://media.giphy.com/media/G5X63GrrLjjVK/giphy.gif
and even besides that taffy is the villageriest player itg IMO
i can villa case them if needed but they'd be my 1 do not ever kill
Ladd hard-defends taffy against Visor.
Ladd should have at least one partner between Taffy-dyach-HK for sure.
I think dyach deserves pressure more than Amy right now, and Taffy more than HK.
There's more ladd stuff around those posts, including one post where he praises Renata but disagrees with her on dyach shade.
i cased him (and you even used my case on ender to say i a wolfy) and i am fairly sure i am not the only who did?
plenty of people pointed out problems with his posts
do you really not understand the wolfread on him
Really don't think ender-ladd is a thing.
Montmorency
12-11-2022, 16:10
BTW I refuse to believe that there were zero scum on Visor yesterday. Visor was genuinely dangerous to the Mafia.
Csargo-Taffy?
vulgard ,all three of u me and ender are v
where are you looking to
who is suspect in this world to you
can you pelase talk to me about ladd and taffy?
Aaayyyyyyyyy
normally the weirder monty is, the more likely he is a villager
he has been... less weird, doesnt have his off the wall pushes, doesnt have his soulread target that he pushes for with ominous wording - thats what stands out to me from him
really interested to see what he comes up with later
Ender was the push, bro - don't demand novelty from me.
Visorslash
ladd, have you read my posts? do you have a read on me?
Renata
BTW I refuse to believe that there were zero scum on Visor yesterday. Visor was genuinely dangerous to the Mafia.
Csargo-Taffy?
Aaayyyyyyyyy
Ender was the push, bro - don't demand novelty from me.
Visorslash
Yeah, I wanted to kill someone for Visor after that and I'm glad I did.
Vote: Dyachei
I think this I believe more than Amy.
I kinda like Renata a lot but I am noting things.
Boq is just town.
Monty is not w/w with Dyachei but if Dya is town then Monty is definitely someone I'd sus.
Revision of thoughts to happen in the morning.
I'm now collapsing now that I've done a quick check through all of game thread for Ladd interactions
I like this.
Raskolnikov
12-11-2022, 16:17
Amy (2): Boquise, Vulgard
Kage(1): Monty
Monty(1): HK
Csargo (1): Renata
Renata (1) : Csargo
Dya (1): Ender
Montmorency
12-11-2022, 16:29
i mean you even wolfread ender yousrself lol
i genuinely don't get why you are turning around so hard on him rn. just cause of the chance he got shot?
ladd pissed at visor for TRing Ender. Visor also rejects ladd's praise of Renata's post, and ladd defends it.
cause it's an hard post to make with tmi that at least 1 of you is a villager. alas it's an ahrd thought to fake as a wolf
See here. Are these exchanges indicative of maf fabricating reads for antispew, or is it just spew? Feels a little more like he's trying to pocket Renata to me.
Tangentially, recall that ladd was repeatedly expressing anger at Pizza throughout D2 for the way he played his PR. Now we can say he was mad that the uncertainty between shooting ender and Vulgard (though I would say it was obv Vulgard) meant they couldn't NK the mech-clear townie. Again, seems like genuine anger, so yet more evidence for locking Ender town.
#Trusttheplan
Pizza always plays 3D chess.
let's say you [Visor] are villager
why not something like ender/amy/kage/(hk/monty/maybeee boq)
i feel like you are either a villager going too down in the rabbit holes and making the game harder on himself or a wolf going for the YOLO. i am leaning the 2nd right now but WHO KNOWS
or it's also possible i am the villager on upside down world but if ender/amy are v/v idek what teams are possible, i think my top villagers +dya are all villagers a lot of the times
imo dya was very villagery last couple of pages, i feel the renata/HK pushes are the "hipster" pushes dya makes as a villager where they think they latch onto something and go for it despite what everyone else thinks
boq idk
i am not the best boq reader. he has felt very chill this game and i havent really disagreed with anything he has said
i also think he defended a lot of people i think are villagers so that wins him points too
but clearly none of those things are impossible to fake as a wolf
kage feels like someone who is gonna die to the villagers regardless of alignment
best i got is that he is not w/w with boq (probably)
renata you seems to have more experience with them than me and i have no clue what their wolf range is but if a random player was posting like they are this game i'd easily call them a villager and call it a day
for amy my only fear is dya villa reading them, maybe i should respect dya's read more. but besides that i think they have been wolfy (tho not excessively so) and they fit like a glove in an ender!wolf world
Multiple ways to interpret these leans, again, but could definitely support a case against dya. Vulgard, do you think you can extract anything by comparing how he talks about the different people he names (such as in the posts I've quoted).
vote: dyachei
The posts from ladd tell me this is the more likely partner. Though I really feel like it could go either way with Amy/dya.
Montmorency
12-11-2022, 16:31
Vote: Taffy for now
Antispew?
Notably different treatment of HK vs. dyachei and Taffy - antipaired to HK?
Ladd hard-defends taffy against Visor.
Ladd should have at least one partner between Taffy-dyach-HK for sure.
I think dyach deserves pressure more than Amy right now, and Taffy more than HK.
There's more ladd stuff around those posts, including one post where he praises Renata but disagrees with her on dyach shade.
Really don't think ender-ladd is a thing.
What about that response on Hollowkatt makes you think "anti-pair"? Granted I think Hollowkatt is scummier than the day is long but that doesn't look like distancing to you? The first instinct is to defend. Then unlike the other two, concede that maybe Hollowkatt actually is a wolf.
EnderWiggin
12-11-2022, 16:37
Popping back in to say:
I am sorry for the irritation yesterday Pizza.
Knowing your role now you actually played it very well. Because the target self resolves and you end up clearing multiple people on a good day.
The wifom between me n Vul plus the subtle references that convinced me I was the shot. Very nice.
let's say you are villager
why not something like ender/amy/kage/(hk/monty/maybeee boq)
i feel like you are either a villager going too down in the rabbit holes and making the game harder on himself or a wolf going for the YOLO. i am leaning the 2nd right now but WHO KNOWS
or it's also possible i am the villager on upside down world but if ender/amy are v/v idek what teams are possible, i think my top villagers +dya are all villagers a lot of the times
Post linked by Monty.
Not that it seems to be going that way right now but this firms up my opinion that Amy is a bad lynch. Second indication I've seen that if Ender flipped town yesterday, he wanted to go after Amy next and on the exact same pretext -- resolving d1 wagons because it simply must contain a wolf.
Montmorency
12-11-2022, 16:40
A further point: ladd was pretty much UTR for almost everyone by D3; I do not believe he was expecting to die anytime soon while formulating his D2 content.
What about that response on Hollowkatt makes you think "anti-pair"? Granted I think Hollowkatt is scummier than the day is long but that doesn't look like distancing to you? The first instinct is to defend. Then unlike the other two, concede that maybe Hollowkatt actually is a wolf.
Well, I encourage people to look at all the ladd posts I quoted above holistically and try to extract any patterns in how he discusses people. So for example in what you're responding to, Visor SRed:
Taffy
Dya
HK
Ladd rejected all of these.
He rejected Taffy SR because Taffy has attitude, pushes, furthers the game - "completely opposite" what Visor says.
He rejected dya SR because Visor's meta on dya is out of date (that's it).
He rejected HK SR because he's posting the same as in Visor's Sorc game ("but i concede he may be a wolf").
I can't tell you what it all means, but we can say he's wishy-washy on HK, hard-defending Taffy, and offering a very vague defense of dya.
Montmorency
12-11-2022, 16:44
Popping back in to say:
I am sorry for the irritation yesterday Pizza.
Knowing your role now you actually played it very well. Because the target self resolves and you end up clearing multiple people on a good day.
The wifom between me n Vul plus the subtle references that convinced me I was the shot. Very nice.
Tangentially, recall that ladd was repeatedly expressing anger at Pizza throughout D2 for the way he played his PR. Now we can say he was mad that the uncertainty between shooting ender and Vulgard (though I would say it was obv Vulgard) meant they couldn't NK the mech-clear townie. Again, seems like genuine anger, so yet more evidence for locking Ender town.
#Trusttheplan
Pizza always plays 3D chess.
.
Askthepizzaguy
:on_hero:
A further point: ladd was pretty much UTR for almost everyone by D3; I do not believe he was expecting to die anytime soon while formulating his D2 content.
Well, I encourage people to look at all the ladd posts I quoted above holistically and try to extract any patterns in how he discusses people. So for example in what you're responding to, Visor SRed:
Taffy
Dya
HK
Ladd rejected all of these.
He rejected Taffy SR because Taffy has attitude, pushes, furthers the game - "completely opposite" what Visor says.
He rejected dya SR because Visor's meta on dya is out of date (that's it).
He rejected HK SR because he's posting the same as in Visor's Sorc game ("but i concede he may be a wolf").
I can't tell you what it all means, but we can say he's wishy-washy on HK, hard-defending Taffy, and offering a very vague defense of dya.
Well, yeah. I don't see how that adds up to Taffy and Dyachei being suss but Hollowkatt not. The distinction you're trying to draw doesn't exist. This is someone who will happily defend townies. Maybe you don't know that for sure, but I do.
Montmorency
12-11-2022, 16:52
Well, yeah. I don't see how that adds up to Taffy and Dyachei being suss but Hollowkatt not. The distinction you're trying to draw doesn't exist. This is someone who will happily defend townies. Maybe you don't know that for sure, but I do.
Sure, see again his quoted reads list from early D2:
my strongest villa reads are cape/vulgard
then pizza/taffy (idk if i mentioned them but i really liked a string of posts they had on..some page. it was v genuine imo)
then i villa lean a bunch of people but i could easily be wrong on them -csargo/monty/dya/boq/HK
What he's doing with Visor at EOD is consistent with that: strongest defense for Taffy.
HK is the one, of the three, he explicitly says "may be" scum however. And I expect that ladd did the typical thing and spread his teammates among tiers.
So even if you think HK is scummy, he shouldn't be easily paired with Taffy or dya.
usually when ladd wolfs, he's quick to call me a wolf and he wasn't doing that when i questioned him
ladd, have you read my posts? do you have a read on me?
I read them until last gif i posted
You seemed villagery enuf
This is easily w/w obviously. I'd like to read more from her on Ladd if there is any, but when she told me she had "questioned" him I wasn't expecting it to be just this.
Sure, see again his quoted reads list from early D2:
What he's doing with Visor at EOD is consistent with that: strongest defense for Taffy.
HK is the one, of the three, he explicitly says "may be" scum however. And I expect that ladd did the typical thing and spread his teammates among tiers.
So even if you think HK is scummy, he shouldn't be easily paired with Taffy or dya.
Ohh. Never mind. I think you at least in part were making a totally different point than I thought you were.
God dammit, I reverted back to pronoun habit with Dya. I'm so sorry. I'd like to blame my exhaustion but it's just habit. I'll keep trying.
I think that is a sign I should leave for a while though. I'm not thinking clearly.
I have an appointment tomorrow that's going to take up most of the day and is possible it will run all the way through EoD. Not likely, I don't think, but possible. I'll leave a safety vote before I leave of whoever Vulgard is voting for unless I vehemently disagree. At this point that would be Dyachei.
Montmorency
12-11-2022, 17:20
Ender, Vulgard, I'm going to be gone for a good while, say 12 hours. But I'm going to be more active than in early game, towards the following promise: I'm going to catalogue every impression ladd offered of each player.
That's a promise - TBD well before EOD.
In parallel, please follow a division of labor and assemble every player's interactions with or impressions on ladd.
An example of the kinds of documentation I'd like you to gather.
Taffy
Do you agree with Ladd's assessment of Kagemusha and Montmorency? (p1771 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154761-Casual-december-game?p=2053838393&viewfull=1#post2053838393))
Ladd calling out Visor's posts as wolfy but continuing to vote me is an interesting mood
If Ender-ladd paired they deserve an award. Because their whole relationship was:
https://i.imgur.com/Nbghbox.jpg
Visor (6): Ender, Taffy, Renata, Csargo, HK, Boq
HK (4): Kagemusha, dya, Cape, Visor
Ender (3): Ladd, Vulgard, Monty
Vulgard (1): Amy
EOD in 15 minutes
The first comment was popcorn.gif; the second was Visor related I think.
Ampharos wasn't relevant at the point I made that first comment. I was referring both times to the three last votes on Logic from Visor, me and Cape that put Logic as the lynch ahead of Ender. I think Ampharos by the time this happened was down to two votes and not in danger.
wooflean to townlean on vulgard no idea why. I didn't see any reason to change that read in their iso given how much time seemingly went into arguing the opposite.
This is accurate, but is it scummy? Let's be real here, you're trying to characterize that giving no reason for a changed town-read on someone you (Csargo) are heavily implying to actually be town (since Ender in the above argument is scum and *somebody* got shot by Pizza yesterday) is scum motivated. It just isn't. This whole comment from here onward is you calling me "weird" (TM), often literally. Pizza would fucking shish-kebab you for this post.
My opinion on Vulgard changed throughout the course of the last day. He had several posts that dropped the hedgy wording and looked focused and interested and just real. I never got a chance to bring it up before real life intervened, and when I got back, the whole Pizza fiasco had happened and I lacked both time and motivation for putting together an iso to show why. So I just mentioned my switch on Vulgard in passing.
I'm never going to apologize or explain away a focus on scum reads over town ones overall. I know it's not the meta, and I know it makes for an easy push on someone in some context. I'm still not going to change until and unless I become comfortable with it again.
It is not scummy to focus on the scum.
My arguments on Visor were hot trash. It was 90% tone read, strong-wolf paranoia, and Pizza sheepage, with just enough meat around the edges to hold it all together. The other two are not trash.
"For some reason", seriously Csargo. You're looking at my iso as you're writing this, it can't be that difficult to figure out what was going on in my head. I am certain I put in writing multiple times at various points about how I was conflicted about whether or not Ender actually was cleared by Pizza. I switched opinions at least twice, and at the end of the day was in the mindset that I didn't want to take the chance of making a compete fool of myself by lynching him if he was cleared town and I was just too stubborn about my own reads to acknowledge it.
Again here you are kind of TMI-ing Ender-wolf when if you are really reading my "weirdness" as scum-motivated, you should be giving at least a little thought to the idea that I might have been motivated by fear of pushing a lynch of a cleared townie.
I was in a world where I'm seeing both Hollowkatt and Visor as scum, and treating Ender as not. Both of them had voted Ender at one point to self-pres, and I figured I could assume they would both go back on that bandwagon again if they needed to. This is why I originally switched to Visor from Hollowkatt. I wanted to put some distance between Ender's vote count and the two of them, and since I was already on Hollowkatt, the only way I could do that was by switching. If this was MU with automatic vote counts and easy refreshing of the page, I would have switched back to Hollowkatt and then gone back to Visor at the last second if it looked like they were trying to save each other by piling on Ender again. Since it's the org instead, I wasn't willing to risk getting sniped without noticing. When Cape voted on Hollowkatt, my mental accounting had it as needing one more reliable (meaning not Visor) vote on Hollowkatt for it to be worth it for me to switch. That last vote never came, so I stayed on Visor.
If Ender is a wolf, going after me for yesterday's voting is 100% valid, because I did act to save him, and openly and transparently so. Doing so now, when he can still be town, and that's the only real reason in this entire post that you have for voting me? Nope.
As mentioned above, it wasn't. I needed one more vote. I probably should have just asked for it.
(Bolded in that last bit is mine.)
I don't know, maybe you are just puzzled by me, but we have here a post that is half trying to turn "she's weird and I don't get her" into a scum read and half "she was obviously trying to protect wolf-Ender (who hasn't actually flipped wolf)" and I am having trouble believing that it's real.
Right back at you buddy. vote: Csargo[/QUOTE]
I think I did say the tr stuff was whatever. I just noted that stuff tbh.
If the Visor read was 'hot trash' why did you move there? Instead of just staying on HK. Purely out of paranoia?
I don't think I assumed anyone's alignment in what I said either?
I have a high opinion of you. I was assuming you'd just throw out the pizza stuff as town, because there's no way we'd ever know who the shot actually was. I did see you say it was useless, but yeah I also saw the dya stuff as well. Then just go with your own reads, which were that all three of them were woofs in your eyes. So in a world where all three of them are woofs to you, your actions don't make sense to me. That's the majority of why I voted you, to see why you treated eod the way you did.
If you were treating ender as cleared then lol me I guess. I really thought you wouldn't do that tbh.
Unvote:
Visor (6): Ender, Taffy, Renata, Csargo, HK, Boq
HK (4): Kagemusha, dya, Cape, Visor
Ender (3): Ladd, Vulgard, Monty
Vulgard (1): Amy
EOD in 15 minutes
This is accurate, but is it scummy? Let's be real here, you're trying to characterize that giving no reason for a changed town-read on someone you (Csargo) are heavily implying to actually be town (since Ender in the above argument is scum and *somebody* got shot by Pizza yesterday) is scum motivated. It just isn't. This whole comment from here onward is you calling me "weird" (TM), often literally. Pizza would fucking shish-kebab you for this post.
My opinion on Vulgard changed throughout the course of the last day. He had several posts that dropped the hedgy wording and looked focused and interested and just real. I never got a chance to bring it up before real life intervened, and when I got back, the whole Pizza fiasco had happened and I lacked both time and motivation for putting together an iso to show why. So I just mentioned my switch on Vulgard in passing.
I'm never going to apologize or explain away a focus on scum reads over town ones overall. I know it's not the meta, and I know it makes for an easy push on someone in some context. I'm still not going to change until and unless I become comfortable with it again.
It is not scummy to focus on the scum.
My arguments on Visor were hot trash. It was 90% tone read, strong-wolf paranoia, and Pizza sheepage, with just enough meat around the edges to hold it all together. The other two are not trash.
"For some reason", seriously Csargo. You're looking at my iso as you're writing this, it can't be that difficult to figure out what was going on in my head. I am certain I put in writing multiple times at various points about how I was conflicted about whether or not Ender actually was cleared by Pizza. I switched opinions at least twice, and at the end of the day was in the mindset that I didn't want to take the chance of making a compete fool of myself by lynching him if he was cleared town and I was just too stubborn about my own reads to acknowledge it.
Again here you are kind of TMI-ing Ender-wolf when if you are really reading my "weirdness" as scum-motivated, you should be giving at least a little thought to the idea that I might have been motivated by fear of pushing a lynch of a cleared townie.
I was in a world where I'm seeing both Hollowkatt and Visor as scum, and treating Ender as not. Both of them had voted Ender at one point to self-pres, and I figured I could assume they would both go back on that bandwagon again if they needed to. This is why I originally switched to Visor from Hollowkatt. I wanted to put some distance between Ender's vote count and the two of them, and since I was already on Hollowkatt, the only way I could do that was by switching. If this was MU with automatic vote counts and easy refreshing of the page, I would have switched back to Hollowkatt and then gone back to Visor at the last second if it looked like they were trying to save each other by piling on Ender again. Since it's the org instead, I wasn't willing to risk getting sniped without noticing. When Cape voted on Hollowkatt, my mental accounting had it as needing one more reliable (meaning not Visor) vote on Hollowkatt for it to be worth it for me to switch. That last vote never came, so I stayed on Visor.
If Ender is a wolf, going after me for yesterday's voting is 100% valid, because I did act to save him, and openly and transparently so. Doing so now, when he can still be town, and that's the only real reason in this entire post that you have for voting me? Nope.
As mentioned above, it wasn't. I needed one more vote. I probably should have just asked for it.
(Bolded in that last bit is mine.)
I don't know, maybe you are just puzzled by me, but we have here a post that is half trying to turn "she's weird and I don't get her" into a scum read and half "she was obviously trying to protect wolf-Ender (who hasn't actually flipped wolf)" and I am having trouble believing that it's real.
Right back at you buddy. vote: Csargo
I think I did say the tr stuff was whatever. I just noted that stuff tbh.
If the Visor read was 'hot trash' why did you move there? Instead of just staying on HK. Purely out of paranoia?
I don't think I assumed anyone's alignment in what I said either?
I have a high opinion of you. I was assuming you'd just throw out the pizza stuff as town, because there's no way we'd ever know who the shot actually was. I did see you say it was useless, but yeah I also saw the dya stuff as well. Then just go with your own reads, which were that all three of them were woofs in your eyes. So in a world where all three of them are woofs to you, your actions don't make sense to me. That's the majority of why I voted you, to see why you treated eod the way you did.
If you were treating ender as cleared then lol me I guess. I really thought you wouldn't do that tbh.
Unvote:
unbroken
Ladd has been killed! He flips mafia goon.
You may proceed.
Csargo, hollowkatt, Montmorency, Ampharos, dyachei, EnderWiggin, ladd, Vulgard, Boquise, Renata, Totally not Taffy, Kagemusha
lmfao nice follow up on my post
this means ender is town 100%
Unvote
And Amy too
which means Dya is town as well
niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice
You think so? The wolfread on Amy is contingent on you being mafia, which... you shouldn't be.
ladd pushed logic, visor, ender, amy
two of those flipped town, i am pretty sure ender is town based on how ladd pushed him, which makes me think amy is town too since wolves seemed to be power wolfing tbh
Idk, I've thought Amy is probably mafia since I cased her on day 2 and barely anyone has engaged with that case, at least while I was present.
I agree with boq that dya/amy being same alignment is probably a fair assessment, and that's the reason why I want to go in their direction. I also pointed out when casing Amy that her townread on ladd was super contrived, and with ladd being a wolf this is even more noteworthy.
Vote: Amy
Probably best to go here first?
tho it would feel pretty silly if i relented from a wolf yet again smh
i think i will have to check on how ladd talked about amy tbh
I'm kinda putting Boq in the "Not now" pile for this post alone.
this reminds me that ladd never answered (iirc) but monty answered for ladd tbh
Just going to note for the record that the dynamic most similar to dyachei-amy here that I ever saw corresponded to wolf dyachei/town amy. I think Boquise's conjecture that wolf!Dya would be inconvenienced by never being able to vote town!Amy is doing a lot of heavy lifting and could easily be wrong. And the other half (town Dya could never be wrong) is just uncharitable. If Amy's *that* obvious of town, then Dyachei shouldn't be the only one able to say so.
renata is never paired with dyachei/amy for this post alone, and if dya/amy are town, renata's scum stocks are rising tbh
Ender is never woof with ladd, based on my limited experience with ladd in Visor's Sorc game. ladd sussed all partners but one and I don't think that severely. At least not to the level that ladd pushed ender here.
yeah ender and vulgard cleared
I kind of still want to go hk
i'll be back later not feeling very good today
yeah ender and vulgard cleared
I kind of still want to go hk
i'll be back later not feeling very good today
What's the case on hk?
EnderWiggin
12-11-2022, 22:30
Unvote
And Amy too
which means Dya is town as well
niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice
I'm gonna need you to convince me Dya wasn't just pocketing Amy.
But I'm leaning the same way on Amy herself.
EnderWiggin
12-11-2022, 22:30
Ender is never woof with ladd, based on my limited experience with ladd in Visor's Sorc game. ladd sussed all partners but one and I don't think that severely. At least not to the level that ladd pushed ender here.
:bow:
me and at least one of the blokes in the death pool of ender vulgard
cmon man i need more than just feel good, explain why taffy could easily be v, explain to me why it doesnt stand out to you?
taffy was in the 10er recent game here, caleld me socially awkward d1 and pushed hard for their beliefs as v, they have approximately zero of that in this game
Were Visor's views on Taffy's town game accurate to anyone who knows them?
Totally not Taffy
12-11-2022, 23:11
I'm going to dump my brain and then dip again, will be back tomorrow (rl) to read reactions and anwer questions and vote.
Here's how I read this morning:
- Montmorency votes Ender
- HK votes Dyachei
- Renata pushes her HK case again
- Montmorency links HK to Boq, tries to dissuade Renata
- HK objects to pairing with Boq
- Csargo calls HKs response oddly defensive, subtly reinforcing the pairing
- Csargo makes case against Renata (looks like chainsaw)
- Ladd pushes Ender again, pairs with Ampharos
So at this point I see two worlds presented to me: HK/Montmorency/Csargo/Ladd vs Renata/Ender/Ampharos/Dyachei
Vulgard then shoots Ladd.
So I would like to kill one of the other three in that first group if possible.
I have only played the whole of 1 day with Dyachei before, but their indignance over my push on Visor yesterday felt the same as last time. I think they'd have defended him harder if they'd known for a fact he was town. Also willing to sheep Cape here.
What were Cape's last reads?
EnderWiggin
12-11-2022, 23:27
Were Visor's views on Taffy's town game accurate to anyone who knows them?
Taffy has a very good tonal game as wolf.
Their positioning does feel very good if wolf tho, which is different to how they were last time they wolfed against me.
But Taffy is also a smart cookie and could have picked that up.
If they do see something they find wolfy they push hard for it but it's not a guarantee. Taffy comes from my homesite so I have a lot of experience with them.
That being said I could 100% be off the mark on them as they've snowed me before.
EnderWiggin
12-11-2022, 23:28
So yes Visor was right but it was a narrow view off too little meta. If that makes sense.
EnderWiggin
12-11-2022, 23:29
Alright so what worlds exist FMPOV
Earth
HK (or Kage)/Monty/Amy/x
or
HK (Kage)/Renata/Csargo/x
Combination of the 2 above worlds likely
This was Cape's last wolflist.
EnderWiggin
12-11-2022, 23:30
me agree
This was to Visor saying that Me/Vul/Visor was v/v/v
Might have been killed just because he was the only one peddling that.
I have no idea whether hk and boq are paired, that's not really what I was pointing out. Out of everything that hk's been accused of this game, that seemed to annoy them.
Also no idea what chainsaw means. If it's that the Renata post is a mess, then yeah. My main point on Renata is that, both EoDs look like someone who's concerned with how they're gonna be viewed in the aftermath of it all. If people don't see that, then I'm most likely wrong and Renata is just town.
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