13er summer game thread

[Cuthillius]

town poisoner?

[Achro]

I wont vote katze if they vote me, just end the game even if they are a wolf power wolfing lol. If they are a wolf I have been snowed and deserve it.

[insomnia]

bruh if that was a town poison on ender i might snap my top villa to wrap it up

(i won't)

[katze]

i assure you i did not poison ender lmao

god i. already regret this because i feel like i just put myself into the driver seat in a game i have no clue what to do in

yippee

[insomnia]

what pr could you even be?

[Achro]

hmm, based off the opening surrounding my list now with hindsight I think everyone had a towny reaction except for insomnia and benneh.

I like that Cuth interacted with an early read and a joke, and katze calling it bad but doing it anyway is such a town katze thing to say in my head.

Insomnia said it would be a good idea to not take benneh's name off, but declined to play, and benneh just ignored it. Both feel... strange to me. Wolves also often ignore my opening posts because they don't know what the fuck 'the right answer' is

hmm, I dont think my reads have been terrible this game actually, I just got stuck in red check/omgus hell with visor for a bit. I thought dya was fine for a long time but she looked (coincidence now I know) paired with visor.

So yeah I guess game is prob over if katze snap votes here lol

[Achro]

i assure you i did not poison ender lmao

god i. already regret this because i feel like i just put myself into the driver seat in a game i have no clue what to do in

yippee

I'll be glad to vote first if you want. But it wont be for you lol

[Achro]

katze

do you have an idea formed around who my two buddies are atm?

[Achro]

Cuthillius

can you give me a reads list top to bottom please

[Cuthillius]

if anyone snapvotes here i will personally travel to their location by hovercraft and melt all of their spoons in a little crucible

we have 48 hours to figure things out

[Achro]

if anyone snapvotes here i will personally travel to their location by hovercraft and melt all of their spoons in a little crucible

we have 48 hours to figure things out

I am 100% not taking 48 hours to vote tbh

just to warn you.

[Cuthillius]

Cuthillius

can you give me a reads list top to bottom please

uh i could have answered this properly before katze claim but i have no idea now

gotta look things over and i don't have the time rn

[Cuthillius]

I am 100% not taking 48 hours to vote tbh

just to warn you.

hopefully you don't like soup

[katze]

yeah nevermind sorry im popping out for a bit

too many things on my mind rn to properly give this game a shake so im not gonna try

[insomnia]

idk how we let winston get away with it for so long

he's my first iso and seems like a wolf that's sitting safe. his katze read after he dropped the drunk wallpost on him seems very distant and uninterested, he's poking on it from time to time with a question but that's about it, and then he reps him as his wolfread still despite not doing anything about it.

his view is narrow and he isn't actionable towards seeing if he's right or not, either by pushing harder or reading other people

[insomnia]

it's like it's his only tangible read and yet he isn't worldbuilding around it at all

he just says he's a wolf from time to time.

it's the easiest spot to sit in imo, and especially if katze is a real PR and thus villager, it was a strong push on a villager early, that he got villa read on and then he had to throw in a stick from time to time to keep the fire alive

other than that he's had blinders on

[insomnia]

I am 100% not taking 48 hours to vote tbh

just to warn you.

i don't want that either, but im hoping you're gonna do SK

we're waiting still tho to see what he says

[Achro]

it's like it's his only tangible read and yet he isn't worldbuilding around it at all

he just says he's a wolf from time to time.

it's the easiest spot to sit in imo, and especially if katze is a real PR and thus villager, it was a strong push on a villager early, that he got villa read on and then he had to throw in a stick from time to time to keep the fire alive

other than that he's had blinders on

I know you're probably moving at your own pace and that's chill, but when you have a chance sometime in the first 24 hours can you please think about the two best partners for winston?

[insomnia]

not gonna do that, i currently think that sk is a wolf

unless he comes in posting incredibly villagery, probably gonna still kill him.


he has to sell a really hard world if it's not him and i don't know how he's gonna do that, judging on his last few reads

[Achro]

alright, well I am not that confident on any one slot so I guess I'll go do other things and wait for SK to come around, not a lot of point of unfocused work if you have it set to vote SK.

[insomnia]

Winston Hughes

broadie you gotta post a bit more today, ideally. and preferably with all your reads and stuff, how you saw the game etc

your only read that i can gleam (other than d1 reads, which i assume for anyone would mostly be outdated?) is a katze wolfread that you don't even want dead afaict

given wolves were apparently doing not too shabby, your position is prime for a wolf who would skate on their early villa cred and not fan the flames, hope you can understand the need for you to do more today

[nebjiamn]

uh i could have answered this properly before katze claim but i have no idea now

gotta look things over and i don't have the time rn
ignoring setup speculation, you actually believe the claim?

if yes, include setup speculation

no way kat is a PR lol

at least not a town one

[nebjiamn]

if i misread that and you intended it as "i'm not sure how to answer that because the claim confuses me" rather than "katze is town and it messed up my reads" then sorry and ignore me

[Cuthillius]

ignoring setup speculation, you actually believe the claim?

if yes, include setup speculation

no way kat is a PR lol

at least not a town one

idk bronana they could be vig

i have stuff to get done today ~urgently i'll be around tomorrow and actually think about it

[Cuthillius]

if i misread that and you intended it as "i'm not sure how to answer that because the claim confuses me" rather than "katze is town and it messed up my reads" then sorry and ignore me

i mean yes i meant it dichotomizes things

[katze]

imo its not rly worth arguing about, believe me or don't. im just claiming because it makes it funnier if i get mislunched

feel free to believe im just a vanillager fpsing that works too as long as you've got the right alignment lol

if u think im a wolf then go with god, its a chill game ur allowed to be wrong


speaking of which, im prepared to be wrong, but hopefully i'll make it amusing



11/50

[Achro]

me when people I tr think I am scum: well this sucks

lol

[katze]

me when people I tr think I am scum: well this sucks

lol

its okay my read on you has changed like 30 times this game and i think i probs overreacted the dya NK in hindsight. even if i still think its hella weird


too bad visor isnt here, he should have claimed his role imo


12

[Achro]

its okay my read on you has changed like 30 times this game and i think i probs overreacted the dya NK in hindsight. even if i still think its hella weird


too bad visor isnt here, he should have claimed his role imo


12

Visor should have probably read my posts and not tried to tell me I didnt try to save cape.

Anyway any uh questions for me or anything?

[katze]

Visor should have probably read my posts and not tried to tell me I didnt try to save cape.

Anyway any uh questions for me or anything?

honestly not really. i think id rather just sit back and watch you solve because "why are you alive" is. not a fair question to answer and im well aware of it and the rest of them i think you're likely to naturally ask yourself and answer if you're a villager anyway once you're less on the defensive and more on the solve grind yknow?

you asked earlier who i'd pair with you hypothetically, SK still seems like an obvious fit and #3 i can't on the top of my head feel like i can clear anyone of but im sure if i reread things with that pairing in mind i could probably take a few names off

but yeah im probs not voting tonight anyway, im not going to do some impulsive shit without letting everybody post at the very least, im calmed down now from the initial "oh shit im late" showing up to seeing dya dead. so you rly shouldnt worry that much about me snapping you im reformed



13

[Achro]

Well, solving is fun tbh.

I think given what I read yesterday and how you approached visor it just always FELT like you were never certain of Visor's alignment. The way you approached everything. So if you're scum gj I am fooled I believe.

Cuth same deal on multiple fronts, and hey if fooled no shame

leaves me 3/4 in the other group then.

I will say, as one last line of thought about me, is I believe SK/me is below my skill floor as scum dealing with partners. If you recall back to the serious care I took when wolfing with visorlash/rue/ruby/jack over days and days I think you will find I never had any sudden shifts or zany moments with any of them. But, that's the last I will speak of myself for awhile.

My initial feelings are I don't think I ever win this game if benneh is town, so kind of locking that in unofficially

then its 2/3 of the others

I will re-read the thread without iso and just get a vibe for how everyone interacted with known villagers and see if anything pops out.

[SilverKeith]

Going to a party tonight and getting wasted. Will be around tomorrow afternoon

Honestly I didn't want to post because I don't have anything to say currently. Or at least anything that y'all want to hear.

I don't even know where to start. Everyone could be a wolf here imo. I'm obviously the designated misslunch here and idk what to do about it because most of the time I clear myself by voting off wolves and I feel like I haven't had the chance to do that this game. I didn't want cape d1 and visor was my cw D2 even if I'd have prolly voted him there if I wasn't up against him. I'm not sure.

I think I should decide if I ride or die with Achro here first.

Then prolly one or two of my heavy pushers has to be town. This is benneh/insom/cuth. Don't think that's the team.

Then idk what to make of katze or Winston. Winston could be paired with most lppl if wolf. Katze not so much.

Anyways bbl

[Achro]

Going to a party tonight and getting wasted. Will be around tomorrow afternoon

Honestly I didn't want to post because I don't have anything to say currently. Or at least anything that y'all want to hear.

I don't even know where to start. Everyone could be a wolf here imo. I'm obviously the designated misslunch here and idk what to do about it because most of the time I clear myself by voting off wolves and I feel like I haven't had the chance to do that this game. I didn't want cape d1 and visor was my cw D2 even if I'd have prolly voted him there if I wasn't up against him. I'm not sure.

I think I should decide if I ride or die with Achro here first.

Then prolly one or two of my heavy pushers has to be town. This is benneh/insom/cuth. Don't think that's the team.

Then idk what to make of katze or Winston. Winston could be paired with most lppl if wolf. Katze not so much.

Anyways bbl
SilverKeith hi. Earlier you said I am good at finding you as town. What games were you referencing when you thought about that?

[SilverKeith]

SilverKeith hi. Earlier you said I am good at finding you as town. What games were you referencing when you thought about that?

I do not think I said that or at least meant that.

But I do think you have more experience with me than everyone in this playerlist bc you've played with town and wolf me as town in normal games. Don't think any other player here has that unless you count mashes or turbos

[Achro]

I'll check, maybe I am misremembering.

I don't think insomnia/SK can ever be aligned based off interactions eod1. Scum can get cute at times but I don't think scum SK fucks around there on scum Insomnia

willing to hear arguments, but thats where I am at rn

[Achro]

which means I am looking for the following teams atm

Benneh/Winston/SK
Benneh/Winston/Insomnia

I guess to be cautious I should re-eval cuth with fresh eyes, but every post I see from Katze is like 'town katze' so gotta trust something somewhere. Also both of the above teams are very STRANGE with wolf katze as a part replacing... any of those names.

Yeah fuck it katze lock town, if they got me they got me.

[Cuthillius]

good news if you're trying to worldbuild around me i think winston is like the only person left alive (apart from maybe you) who i could plausibly be a wolf with

[Achro]

good news if you're trying to worldbuild around me i think winston is like the only person left alive (apart from maybe you) who i could plausibly be a wolf with

Yeah, perhaps.

Quick question though Cuthillius

At one point close to EOD, the vote totals were this:

Visor(3): SK, Taffy, insom
Benneh(3): Achro, ender, katze
SK(2): Dya, Benneh
katze(2): WH, Visor
insom(1): cuth

You spent a lot of time defending Visor and saying Benneh was wolfy yesterday. But a little later you vote WITH Benneh, on SK, saying this:


vote: silverkeith

it's literally mechanics


katze(3): WH, Visor, cuth
Visor(3): Taffy, insom, Achro
Benneh(2): ender, katze
SK(2): Dya, , Benneh,

Cuth(1): SK

When these were the current votes from host, you switched from SK to Insomnia, a fresh wagon.

So your EOD is very 'Visor is lock v, don't kill' and I am like, okay got it.

and you have a lot of discussion back and forth with SK, so I agree you aren't paired with SK for sure.

I don't get it. What about Benneh's EOD made you not pursue him when he was a viable wagon when I offered to do that, which in turn put Visor in more danger because my vote was going to be on him? Walk me through your thinking process at EOD?


this is a bizarre way of framing it?? i don't think sk's posts have been fantastic either but i don't think his posts have been so terrible that he'd be being run up no contest if there weren't wolves propping him up for ?some reason?

Was OK with SK until EOD


okay i have a lot of thoughts but i should really be doing other stuff right now so i will try to distill

i feel moderately strongly that benneh/katze are wolves together lol

main points:

-benneh just wasn't very villagery d1? he was kinda floating around and in particular i think the way in which he was pushing ender all day looks kinda gross in retrospect (well before the possibility of pr stuff i think?)
-katze randomly reads benneh strong v off vibes and basically keeps him there all the way through
--at one point earlyish on benneh makes an offhand jokey comment about this but doesn't really push back or follow through much at all; it's a very sort of i should acknowledge this but actually don't mind it kind of post
-both of them, but especially benneh, are very message-boost-y wrt ladd-- iirc all three of them had more or less the same exact readslist, though iirc benneh was like yeah same but a couple of these names would be lower on mine
-in that context ladd nk would make a lot of sense to cement some level of consensus in the thread and codify his takes before he had chances to reevaluate later, plus there weren't really many super hard clear villagers at that point
-both of them (more so katze) had relatively nuanced reads but at the end of the day basically were always gonna end up on cape/achro/ender, and neither really pushed very hard elsewhere, though there were some meaningless votes thrown around in various directions
--granted this is not unique to either of them but fits the overall narrative wrt ladd stuff and general direction
-also both of them are very shruggy towards sk yeet today in a pretty non-committal way

anyway those are my thoughts i think benneh looks a bit worse than katze but i think he makes the most sense with katze that is all goodbye for now

I found this case rather convincing and I was willing to go benneh over visor at eod, I was on benneh for a decent while even but despite him being a viable wagon you just… never voted there once at EOD. Voted visor before the claim, voted SK, voted katze (I think as a joke), voted Insomnia… but you never voted Benneh.

And I think Benneh may be wolfing.

So I am confused, and I need clarity. Like. A lot of it. Please?

Visor(4): Taffy, insom, Achro, WH
Benneh(2): ender, katze
SK(2): Dya, , Benneh,
insom(3): cuth, SK, Visor

Visor(4): Taffy, insom, Achro, WH
Benneh(2): ender, katze
SK(4): Dya, , Benneh, , Visor, cuth
insom(1): , SK

Visor(3): SK, Taffy, insom
Benneh(3): Achro, ender, katze
SK(2): Dya, Benneh
katze(2): WH, Visor
insom(1): cuth

Some more random votes throughout EOD. That last one especially you had your pick of Benneh who you suspected a lot and Visor who at that point was LOCK TOWN but you started another wagon. IDGI.

[Achro]

i think it's plausible you could be w/w with sk

you only started pushing him sod2, after his posts eod1 were godawful, and iirc there was a decently strong consensus that he was quite wolfy by that point

would i ever yeet you before sk? absolutely not, but i don't see why it's super improbable

WHy not yeet benneh before SK? Who are SK's two wolf buddies if not me, if not you, and in scenario a benneh isnt. You are left with insomnia, winston, and katze.

I don't know cuth, I am feeling a bit set up right now. I typed the below before I read this post today but yeah.

I guess to be a bit more accusatory about it, and my apologies but it is LYLO, but you have come off as very thoughtful in the thread to me. I would think that you would like it if I kept my vote on someone you suspect and off of Visor. In fact, I would have 100% stayed on benneh if he was the counter wagon. Despite my outburst I am a big believer of compromise and I had no problem doing it on benneh, a read we shared, you would have effectively taken a vote away from the Visor wagon and probably could have enticed someone to bite over the vig claim. Certainly SK at least seemed in the mood to not die if nothing else.

Also, low key I thought you were going to die last night as most people seemed to have a favorable view of you. You were hot on SK's ass at EOD and ready to go, whereas dya was also fired up for SK but had a lot less influence over the game at large compared to you. I guess if SK is scum maybe that's just how the cookie crumbles.

But... idk, I'm your top town read, right? And you are pretty darn towny and I tend to go off the deep end sometimes on paranoia. I feel like we should work together on a joint wolf finding effort today. I really am having trouble finding wolf teams without Benneh on them, especially if we're both town in each other's eyes. Especially partnered with SK. I'd love you to at some point tell me more about these worlds and see if we can't agree on who to chop today.

I'm just a little bit worried that you've pocketed me. I'll review our interactions a little but yeah. Because I could see a world where W!cuth sees the vig claim and thinks to himself 'well, if visor survives atm he will either shoot me or achro, and it will confirm his claim and be very bad' so you start HARD defending him, which SK notes is weird (... it's a little weird tbh) and you two get into it. This makes a great deal of sense from W!cuth as it's a good hedge. If visor goes over, great, you were against the chop and you've set up the town counter wagon - SK or Insomnia given your votes, I think - to take the follow whenever LYLO is. If the other goes over, you've made visor re-eval on you and he probably shoots me because 'why not', you guys kill him, and it's at lylo with a few different players but wolves in excellent position.

Those puzzle pieces click to me atm for say, a Cuth/Benneh/Winston team


I believe this is post... 27. Used a lot, but that's alright, I'll try to wait to post more until you've had a chance to respond and everyone gives thoughts. Thanks!

[Winston Hughes]

ruhroh

i have some further bad news for my fellow townies (whoever you might be - i have no fucking idea at this point):

i've got a rehearsal tomorrow evening which will keep me out past eod, meaning i have to get my vote down ~6 hours early

[Winston Hughes]

if i had to call it now, i'd say achro/cuth/sk are the townies, making insomnia/benneh/katze the wolves

[Winston Hughes]

if not for my absence for eod, i'm pretty sure this game would end with me getting chopped

as it is, it probably ends with me picking the wrong player and them getting chopped

[insomnia]

wow that is a wolfy view

is it strictly PoE or do you have any reason to have us wolves?

[insomnia]

i think achro is a villager. it makes sense with how the game went down imo. ladd was one of the few that was fairly convinced achro was a villa just blurting his mind out and got cap'd. dya was also turning around and his emotions and thoughts make sense to me

cuth in theory would be a close second for a deep wolf position, but when re-reading i see a lot of posts that don't really make sense to me from wolf PoV and i just get a villagery feel from. ironically, his EoD where he voted for me with a lol or whatever for him not seeing the PR is probably one of the few villagery actions, because it rings of villa sass (idk if it's correct word, maybe self-righteousness?) where in a pressure filled environment a wolf getting called out like that would probably make him some sorta defensive. but the way in which he reacted feels like the villager self-righteousness

it's very hard for me to find a third villa here that i'd be confident on, so im hoping the odds for hitting a wolf if im correct on these two to get me through today

[Winston Hughes]

wow that is a wolfy view

is it strictly PoE or do you have any reason to have us wolves?

just off the top of my head

i am thinking now, though

i have to make achro town because if he's played like this as scum it's frankly stomach-turning - if he was to win as scum playing like this (in a casual game, no less) i would be genuinely disgusted

and if achro is town, the way the votes played out at eod yesterday mean that sk is very likely town as well - it just wouldn't seem worth the other scum's risk to get him chopped there, when visor was such an easy option

cuth i've been townreading since the latter part of d1 based on his tone and mood; i also feel like he genuinely tried to save visor yesterday

for the other three of you, while there have been measures of towniness in your tone at times, at no point have i ever really felt it was anything you couldn't easily fake

[insomnia]

im almost a little annoyed that everyone keeps saying katze has been solving or doesn't make sense as a wolf with anyone, so much so that im considering that im somehow not paying enough attention to his posts or the game (which is probably true)

it's almost so surreal to me that im half tempted to just put him as my yolo third villa and blame everyone if it's wrong, but that would be petty and not too smart coming from me. not sure how much i care atp about that though, im a tired washed playah

[Winston Hughes]

out of the three, you're the one i'd be least confident on

at this point i can't see voting beyond benneh or katze

[insomnia]

why do you think sk is a villa, winston?

[insomnia]

and if you are still stuck on katze, can you make a case as to why?

also, what do you think of the way he's getting treated? it is almost universal to me that everyone says he doesn't fit with wolves or that his solving was good

[insomnia]

- I like Achro's approach from a "try new things" perspective tho I think it's kind of un-achro-ey. Ftr I'd have taken off the list somene who I didn't want dead just bc I wanted to play more with em.

- I didn't like Taffy's vote towards Achro. It's the kind of explanation for a vote I give when I'm wolfing. Neither them asking for opinions on Visor/Achro so early into the game.

- I decided I wasn't going to really try to read katze today at post #60.

- I don't like Insom's read on ender (#62). I think there's some dissonance between what's he's stating and the importance it should have. Idk how to explaining.


why?

- katze is a wolf per post 70. Only partially joking. Also driving woat.

- I think ladd is kinda ok just based on him reaching some v reads which I don't follow but I feel like I should follow.

- Achro explanation towards the taffy thing is illegitimate and apocryphal which is town-indicative of him yesyesyes i do believe this mmhmm.

- I've changed my mind on Achro and I think he's a wolf based on 102. I feel like if Ladd is town, and ladd's buttons clicked when Achro went like "oh I have this idea but it's ok I wasn't really attached to it" and then Ladd townread him for it, this repeat of him explicitly not being attached to ladd's wolfread feels like an appeal to those same buttons.

Also I do not like that half the procesing I've done this game is Achro-centric, tho it makes sense since he's the person who has posted more.


I read this post before my mind made the connection that it was a post made by Achro which was mildly amusing

I now regret that katze and Achro are the two players I wrote the most about because I saw the thunderdome post so I've decided to go to sleep. I'm also sorry for the catch up formatting for this post.

potentially TMI-ish read


also too lazy to quote his progression on dya, but the gist of it is that he was relatively confident they were a villager for putting him in PoE and voting him, which just seems a weird confidence read on someone you claimed you don't have much meta with?

actually i might as well do it, 1 sec

[Achro]

just off the top of my head

i am thinking now, though

i have to make achro town because if he's played like this as scum it's frankly stomach-turning - if he was to win as scum playing like this (in a casual game, no less) i would be genuinely disgusted

and if achro is town, the way the votes played out at eod yesterday mean that sk is very likely town as well - it just wouldn't seem worth the other scum's risk to get him chopped there, when visor was such an easy option

cuth i've been townreading since the latter part of d1 based on his tone and mood; i also feel like he genuinely tried to save visor yesterday

for the other three of you, while there have been measures of towniness in your tone at times, at no point have i ever really felt it was anything you couldn't easily fake

If you are town I would ask you let katze resolve as pr.

I think we agree on benneh so if we are all wrong it's kind of gg

[Winston Hughes]

why do you think sk is a villa, winston?

for the initial read it's mainly that i got town vibes from my iso yesterday

but more important now is this:


Visor(5): Taffy, Achro, WH, SK, katze
SK(5): Dya, Benneh, Visor, cuth, insom
Benneh(1): enderl

if achro is town, and sk is scum, then sk's buddies let him rand when they really didn't need to

i'm not gonna say lock town for this, but it's enough that i can't see myself chopping sk today

[insomnia]

Have skimmed some of the last pages.

I like cape doing their own thing. Feels ok.

I think dya is ok. I feel like town dya would default to voting me often in this playerlist and in a game where I'm not really posting a lot, because they are really unfamiliar with me and thus I don't see them condifently putting me outside a POE ever. I'm not sure wolf dya takes this exit. Not related but Dya is prolly the player in this game I feel the most confident in reading correctly but that's a really low level of confidence which is fun and exciting.


out of this eod I think ladd/cape are town.

I'm ok with Dya town. I'm currently ok with Achro being town.

Taffy maybe town


I still don't think dya posts this as a wolf


"feel most strongly about the bottom bottom". You said I was a blindspot and the only person you talked about me with is Dya, who you went from wolfreading to townreading.

I don't follow. Dya explanation on why I was a wolf was partially wrong (me being around on eod is due to time constrains, can't play while at work), and lack of willingness to solve is prolly of related to me not being here for a big part of the game so not having a good grasp of it (while not being really that familiar with the playerlist)

I think dya is a town because their takes on me are wrong and have zero nuance to them. Like, very basic stuff. So I feel that both they are being honest about them and that if they were a wolf they'd prolly show more doubt/hesitation or try to give a more meaningful explanation on why I'm a wolf instead of a simple/direct one.

But you've played with me a bit more, so you going "I don't disagree with what you said" is kind of... weird?reductionist? because dya's point are technically true but I feel like it shouldn't be hard for you to see a bit farther and see that I could easily be a villager who has been in this same position often in his games.

Another thing to note is that my biggest indicator to you being a wolf that game is that the treatment you gave to me was like, sort of merciless, which kept me thinking after the game "v!visor would've known better, he wouldn't have done me that dirty", which is a similar feeling dya expressed towards you ("v!visor should already gotten to me being town")

Like, I'm sorry if you're v and I'm placing high expectations on you here I just think your overall logic towards my slot and potentially dya's doesn't track


Going to sleep.

Achro
Taffy
Ender
Dya
-----
I think I like this for a start. I'm not super confident at this so 1 wolf in here is possible and I wouldn't be too surprised. Don't think there's two, tho w!achro shielding w!taffy is interesting as an idea idk don't feel they'd play it like they did particularly with taffy sod. If Dya is a wolf I'd need someone to sell me on them. Achro could be one but it's in my best interests hopes and wishes that he's not, and that's partially why I'm also trusting and putting Taffy here. Ender is prolly town, I don't think another townie just decides to poison him ever so that's prolly wolves. Now thinking about it, they could've used the nk on ender and the poison on ladd if they were afraid of Ender's pr being an informative. This just means ladd had to be shut up asap but idk about which of his reads.

Winston
Cuth
-----------
I'm ok with both of these players for similar reasons. I think Winston is doing his own thing, don't think he's being agenda-y, I feel like he's exploring options but not in a wolfy way.. I'm not sure if Cuth's exploration is actually towny but thinking about it his game feels a bit lonely, don't think he's currently being supported by anyone. I think there's some teams that fit these two but meh. Also haven't played with Winston ever fwiw.

Katze
Benneh
Visor
Insom
-------------
Current POE. Think I've talked a bit about each of them. I wish I had more to say about Katze rather than hmmm vibes. Also most of the ppl I've got here are here bc of how they've played around me or what they've said about me lol.

Insom is the one I don't think I've talked. I'm not sure. Just don't think he has done anything that makes me think he's town. Prolly should ISO him.

aaa

[insomnia]

Have skimmed some of the last pages.

I like cape doing their own thing. Feels ok.

I think dya is ok. I feel like town dya would default to voting me often in this playerlist and in a game where I'm not really posting a lot, because they are really unfamiliar with me and thus I don't see them condifently putting me outside a POE ever. I'm not sure wolf dya takes this exit. Not related but Dya is prolly the player in this game I feel the most confident in reading correctly but that's a really low level of confidence which is fun and exciting.


out of this eod I think ladd/cape are town.

I'm ok with Dya town. I'm currently ok with Achro being town.

Taffy maybe town


I still don't think dya posts this as a wolf


"feel most strongly about the bottom bottom". You said I was a blindspot and the only person you talked about me with is Dya, who you went from wolfreading to townreading.

I don't follow. Dya explanation on why I was a wolf was partially wrong (me being around on eod is due to time constrains, can't play while at work), and lack of willingness to solve is prolly of related to me not being here for a big part of the game so not having a good grasp of it (while not being really that familiar with the playerlist)

I think dya is a town because their takes on me are wrong and have zero nuance to them. Like, very basic stuff. So I feel that both they are being honest about them and that if they were a wolf they'd prolly show more doubt/hesitation or try to give a more meaningful explanation on why I'm a wolf instead of a simple/direct one.

But you've played with me a bit more, so you going "I don't disagree with what you said" is kind of... weird?reductionist? because dya's point are technically true but I feel like it shouldn't be hard for you to see a bit farther and see that I could easily be a villager who has been in this same position often in his games.

Another thing to note is that my biggest indicator to you being a wolf that game is that the treatment you gave to me was like, sort of merciless, which kept me thinking after the game "v!visor would've known better, he wouldn't have done me that dirty", which is a similar feeling dya expressed towards you ("v!visor should already gotten to me being town")

Like, I'm sorry if you're v and I'm placing high expectations on you here I just think your overall logic towards my slot and potentially dya's doesn't track


Going to sleep.

Achro
Taffy
Ender
Dya
-----
I think I like this for a start. I'm not super confident at this so 1 wolf in here is possible and I wouldn't be too surprised. Don't think there's two, tho w!achro shielding w!taffy is interesting as an idea idk don't feel they'd play it like they did particularly with taffy sod. If Dya is a wolf I'd need someone to sell me on them. Achro could be one but it's in my best interests hopes and wishes that he's not, and that's partially why I'm also trusting and putting Taffy here. Ender is prolly town, I don't think another townie just decides to poison him ever so that's prolly wolves. Now thinking about it, they could've used the nk on ender and the poison on ladd if they were afraid of Ender's pr being an informative. This just means ladd had to be shut up asap but idk about which of his reads.

Winston
Cuth
-----------
I'm ok with both of these players for similar reasons. I think Winston is doing his own thing, don't think he's being agenda-y, I feel like he's exploring options but not in a wolfy way.. I'm not sure if Cuth's exploration is actually towny but thinking about it his game feels a bit lonely, don't think he's currently being supported by anyone. I think there's some teams that fit these two but meh. Also haven't played with Winston ever fwiw.

Katze
Benneh
Visor
Insom
-------------
Current POE. Think I've talked a bit about each of them. I wish I had more to say about Katze rather than hmmm vibes. Also most of the ppl I've got here are here bc of how they've played around me or what they've said about me lol.

Insom is the one I don't think I've talked. I'm not sure. Just don't think he has done anything that makes me think he's town. Prolly should ISO him.


for the initial read it's mainly that i got town vibes from my iso yesterday

but more important now is this:



if achro is town, and sk is scum, then sk's buddies let him rand when they really didn't need to

i'm not gonna say lock town for this, but it's enough that i can't see myself chopping sk today

fmpov it's 4 villas voting for sk, confirmed

benneh is the only worrisome name. my other PoE slots are voting to save him /shrug

[Achro]

im almost a little annoyed that everyone keeps saying katze has been solving or doesn't make sense as a wolf with anyone, so much so that im considering that im somehow not paying enough attention to his posts or the game (which is probably true)

it's almost so surreal to me that im half tempted to just put him as my yolo third villa and blame everyone if it's wrong, but that would be petty and not too smart coming from me. not sure how much i care atp about that though, im a tired washed playah

Okay that's just my pov you don't have to get annoyed or anything. Let's talk it out.

katze(3): WH, Visor, cuth
Visor(3): Taffy, insom, Achro
Benneh(2): ender, katze
SK(2): Dya, , Benneh,

So I am town. Wh/cuth went podracing yesterday. You are town. So katze/benneh/sk feels snug? Or you got something else in mind.
insomnia Winston Hughes

Would love feedback on me two cuth walls analyzing rod yesterday re: possible benneh/cuth unless you want to wait for duth to explain themselves before discussing it.

[insomnia]

Okay that's just my pov you don't have to get annoyed or anything. Let's talk it out.

katze(3): WH, Visor, cuth
Visor(3): Taffy, insom, Achro
Benneh(2): ender, katze
SK(2): Dya, , Benneh,

So I am town. Wh/cuth went podracing yesterday. You are town. So katze/benneh/sk feels snug? Or you got something else in mind.
insomnia Winston Hughes

Would love feedback on me two cuth walls analyzing rod yesterday re: possible benneh/cuth unless you want to wait for duth to explain themselves before discussing it.

im not really gonna fight it, maybe i was just sleepwalking past his posts cuz he was having times when posting walls a lot of the time

i kinda just wanna take it because it feels like he's threadspewed through my lense lol. but i find it odd there's 0 paranoia for him /shrug

[Winston Hughes]

and if you are still stuck on katze, can you make a case as to why?

also, what do you think of the way he's getting treated? it is almost universal to me that everyone says he doesn't fit with wolves or that his solving was good

i think katze has done what katze does as a wolf: positions himself perfectly to stay just out of danger from the lynch without making himself the most obvious candidate for an nk

katze is a remarkably subtle manipulator, and i don't see how any of the manipulations in this game have really been townie in intent

the solving process is coherent and plausible, but as something of an expert at faking process myself, it's not what i look for in the play of someone with katze's skills - what i look for is impact, and of that there has been remarkably little

the same hold true for fit with wolves - there are plenty of superficial reasons katze doesn't fit with any given player, but i don't recall any deeper ones; hell, i'd probably be the deepest one, and if i was someone else looking in who knew us both, i'd still think there was a decent chance we were buddies

[Achro]

im not really gonna fight it, maybe i was just sleepwalking past his posts cuz he was having times when posting walls a lot of the time

i kinda just wanna take it because it feels like he's threadspewed through my lense lol. but i find it odd there's 0 paranoia for him /shrug

...

Did.... did you not see the two huge walls of paranoia I posted before you got here up above???

[insomnia]

i've read your wall

think it's best to let him reply before i say anything.

[Winston Hughes]

fmpov it's 4 villas voting for sk, confirmed

benneh is the only worrisome name. my other PoE slots are voting to save him /shrug

yeah, i can see that

and for that (among other reasons) your push on me today makes total sense

of course, it would also make sense as scum

but i feel like giving you a townpoint for how and when you did it

[Winston Hughes]

fmpov it's 4 villas voting for sk, confirmed

hang on, sorry, four?

what did i miss there?

[insomnia]

yeah, i can see that

and for that (among other reasons) your push on me today makes total sense

of course, it would also make sense as scum

but i feel like giving you a townpoint for how and when you did it

tbh my push on you really came once katze claimed PR which im not even sure how to take yet



achro, i must've skipped past it lmfao. either way i doubt we're going katze today so im fine not discussing him

[insomnia]

hang on, sorry, four?

what did i miss there?

ah right, i guess i was taking cuth as a villager in my mind since he's one of my 2 clears

[insomnia]

sk has the best view here

imo if he's a villa then benneh / cuth might both have decent chances of being wolves just purely off the fact that wolves would hate voting on the vigi with the knowledge that he is one

it still feels wrong to me that cuth would be one though so dunnoooo

[Achro]

Reading both ends I just get the overwhelming sense that if cuth wanted benneh dead then benneh would be dead. He voted with him on ender after briefly voting for him brought him to 3 with me and winston voting. And danced around voting him day 2 when he was tied with visor for the lead.

No one has to comment yet but like I just don't 'get it' at all.

Also benneh started that awful ender sus and multiple townies now have pointed out they pr read ender atp. I don't look for such things when I am town but I think both visor and 100% dya said as much so I have no doubt someone like benneh could have noticed that as scum/believed it and went for the kill or at least confirming it with a claim. Cuth helped that pressure but does it make sense w/w? No idea tbh. Just getting more cuth paranoia out of my system as I think over the game.

[Winston Hughes]

between achro's paranoia and insomnia's solving intent, i feel like cuth is slipping down into my bottom three right now

[nebjiamn]

achro i actually think you bring up valid points about cuth. i was thinking his vote was clearing but looking back on how eod played out cuth's dancing around me then voting w/ me is super strange. also him pairing me and SK randomly yesterday felt like a wolf explaining a fake read (i felt this about how he initially paired me with katze too) because he cited me not ever pushing SK until he was consensus wolf, which is just demonstrably untrue

you're wrong in totality because i'm a villager, but i think what you're pointing out is more indicative that cuth can be with sk since his play fits in the mold insomnia is describing about a wolf being scared of being on the wagon of a PR. if SK is a wolf w/ cuth he probably felt the need to start bussing at EOD since the only real wagons yesterday were visor/insomnia/SK/me

i was never going over, visor had PR claim so wolves may have felt he wasnt dying. insomnia had a chance to go over and cuth voted him at some point but then chose to vote SK with ... me and insomnia, two people cuth was wolf reading

like the more you unfold it cuth's worldview last eod makes no sense. does/did he think the team is me/insom/sk?

@cuthilius

[nebjiamn]

like if he thinks thats the team, fair enough i guess? lol

but i dont' recall any kind of progression on insomnia or silverkeith (aside from him pairing me to silverkeith yesterday)

and im biased but i'm a constant pairing for him with his other pet wolf reads but everything was conditional on the other being a wolf and not a fleshed out read

why can't it be cuth/sk/x with x possibly being katze/winston

[nebjiamn]

also i will acknowledge that cuth doesn't necessarily need to have a world view of The Exact 3 Wolves while he's doing stuff on days 1 2 and 3 and all and its best to just focus and find a wolf before worrying about worlds, but my point stands

[nebjiamn]

also i will acknowledge that cuth doesn't necessarily need to have a world view of The Exact 3 Wolves while he's doing stuff on days 1 2 and 3 and all and its best to just focus and find a wolf before worrying about worlds, but my point stands
clearly worldviews were on his mind since he was pairing me with others so actually i rescind this thought

cuth ur outed, how do you plea

[Achro]

Sorry for another movie script, insomnia. It was a genuine thought that I was going to struggle with 50 posts and while I am glad others like dya find 50 posts ‘easy’ to solve within I am not used to being capped at all, and this is by far the most restriction I have ever had in like…. 20 years playing mafia, so I apologize to town for this skill issue. Like, legitimately, I figured I would suck I am just doing my best lol

I would like Benneh to vote first today as the person in the most people’s POEs, or if there is wide spread boos to that I don’t mind voting first tbh because being wrong has been the least of my problems this game lol.

Winston Hughes - If you dont mind humoring me for a moment, let’s operate in a world for a brief time where Benneh is flipped wolf and Katze is killed tonight as town. What would your thoughts for the final 2 partners be in that world? You’ve been on Katze since day 1, much like Taffy was on me day 1, and I think it would do the game good for you to put that read away for a little bit and explore town katze worlds.If katze is a PR they may die tonight after all, so its good to get started since we really don’t want to be voting Katze today anyway. Live in that world for a bit and lmk what you think, or if you can think of a team without katze AND benneh I guess, but those are your top two suspects so probably not. Thank you! We agree on a lot so interested to hear your thoughts.

Some cuth/katze/sk/general thoughts



i don't think that achro's been wildly villagery, but i think they've been villagery enough that i'm definitely not interested in going there today and feel fine about being able to figure them out down the road if need be




ladd
achro

benneh
dya
ender
katze

sk
taffy

cape
winston

visor
insomnia

neither ordered within category or particularly confident, sk/taffy are neutral and the two below aren't necessarily different in magnitude but are still different in my head somehow

i'll be sporadically phone-posting at most between now and an hour out from eod


It was about 90 minutes in between these two posts. How did I go from ‘wildly villagery’ to being one of your two strongest reads? Sorry if this seems nitpicky, but so far at 370 you kind of have been town reading me the entire time with no… real note on trying to solve with me, I guess? It feels bad in hindsight to me. Not 100% wolfy, but the only comment you’ve really made is giving me advice on how to solve better and telling me visor as a wolf wouldn’t care how prickly I was (which… not sure if that’s true, as my reasoning there turned out to be valid I just got tunneled)


alrighty ty for the info

id be pretty hyped for a benneh/katze wolfrand but id bus visor so hard u have no idea...

SPEAKING OF WHICH visor is rly wolfy uwu (this isnt a real read) (maybe???)

current worldview looks something like


REDACTED READS: Winston, katze

ladd
benneh
Taffy

Cuthillius
dyachei
insomnia*
Achro

Visor
SilverKeith

Ender
Cape*

i kinda think these two are w/v like 90% of the time

feel free to ask questions in the meantime, this is my capping post ill be back in 40 min or so glgl


katze can you revisit what you were thinking here with your insomnia/cape comment? Why was it such a high confidence? I’ll revisit your thoughts on Insomnia as I go through but you went from this being 90%, and Insomnia being the counter wagon, to shrugyeeting SK SOD2 and I’d like to know your progression and the posts from the two after this that impacted your read the most. It’s hard to ISO and I just want to like, see your work because changing reads is fine and good but the 90% stuck out to me.

I don’t think SK has two viable partners in v!you worlds, insomnia

Take me off the board, as you have, and yourself, that leaves winston who I think could be paired with SK in theory (at a glance) but then you have…

Katze - thought shrugyeeting was pretty dope
Benneh - who kept trying to stab SK over and over
Cuth - Who kept trying to stab SK over and over

Curious to hear your thoughts on the most likely team of those 3. Certainly anyone can wolf with anyone, and we’ll know which clues were herrings soon enough, but yesterday was a mess and it feels like a strange time to bus SK at EOD when you could go after a vulnerable town. I don’t know what w! Cuth or Katze were doing there with w! SK if Benneh is v, for instance. Both had laid a mountain of foundation to murder the FUCK out of Benneh if needed but Cuth never voted there, and Katze laid off eventually to put Visor in the lead last second which… I guess is a bit more of a maybe, but THEN you have to deal with the team being Katze/Winston/SK which feels weird but I could maybe see some “Winston is just a distraction for Katze’ but… Winston also put Katze in some real danger and tbh 3 PR for town just kinda makes sense in a 13er when scum have an extra kill so idk.

Like looking at direct play at LYLO is kind of like ‘eh’ for me, although needed and I am doing it too, but I think the test I try to look for is ‘okay, who are the partners’

I do need to know your thoughts on SK partner equity, Insomnia, because if SK is your most likely scum rn then I am not sure how much I can trust you are town because FMPOV it doesn’t make a lot of sense, and it also makes me want to trust Winston more for thinking it doesn’t make a lot of sense.

Winston’s solve of… what was it…

Katze/Benneh/Insomnia? Pretty good actually from my villager POV. Katze I disagree with in this moment but I understand how Winston got there.

Cuth/Benneh/Insomnia also I think has SOME equity, given that when you Insomnia actually got votes Cuth smashed into SK again. Insomnia you were a vanity wagon when Cuth voted you let me see…


Visor(3): SK, Taffy, insom
Benneh(3): Achro, ender, katze
SK(2): Dya, Benneh
katze(2): WH, Visor
insom(1): cuth


So let me lay out everyone’s starting intent today.

Winston: Katze/Benneh
Me: Benneh
Cuth: SK and Benneh, but specifies never yeeting benneh before SK
Insomnia: SK
Katze: Fuck Achro in particular (for legal reasons this is a joke), has been wolfing Benneh for a bit
SK: getting wasted, will decide things later (respectable)

Benneh: katze is ‘pretty goddamn wolfy’ and ‘sk’s team helped him out’, needs to re-eval SK

So Benneh is kind of repping a world of SK/Katze and either myself or Winston atp which is… a solve alright given some things that have transpired in this thread.

Would like more partner solving from Insomnia, pointing out things that could be TMI works for like, everyone who makes reads on things. I just spent some time going down cuth could be TMI’ing me town (or, he’s town and just town reading me lol)

Kind of an easy shout and idk if that’s very wolfy from SK or not.

I need to look back at day 1 and make a decision on SK specifically. Day 2 if he is a wolf people were OK with bussing him there, but day 1 Cape had so much momentum that I don’t think people want to rock the boat so let me see…


EOD1 thoughts broken down… a lot. This is the vast majority of this post. I encourage people to read through it and tell me when and where they disagree with my points on things if they do. I come out with a team at the end of it or at least two people I feel confident are not wolves ATP, which is a great start if I am right. But this is a long section, so buckle up.


Cape(4): ladd, insomnia, ender, katze
insomnia(3): SK, Achro, Cuth
Ender(2): benneh, Winston
Cuth(2): Visor, Taffy
ladd(1): Cape
Sk(1): Dya

Although it is funny that Katze said she’d have killed Insomnia if a wolf here and he was v and I kind of believe that tbh. Pretty easy to go there.

Cape(4): ladd, insomnia, ender, katze
Ender(2): benneh, , Winston
insomnia(2): SK, Achro
Visor(1): , Cuth
ladd(1): Cape,
Cuth(2): Visor, Taffy
Sk(1): Dya
Achro(0):

Hmm, Cuth voted Insomnia very last second to bring him to 1… where have I seen this before…


I should have stuck with the rp tbh, if people weren't going to be able to understand me at least I could have sounded cool.

Unrelated but based take from wolf achro for people not understanding me in general, a lot more painful as town.

Illario (4) EnderWiggin dyachei Vulgard Wisdom
Nutella (3) Cape90 Achro Syn
Wisdom (2) Raskolnikov robyn
Robyn (2) Visor Illario
dyachei (1) ladd
Lapras (1) Nutella
Raskolnikov (1) Boquise

4 minutes until EOD, all villagers are being voted.

Illario (5) EnderWiggin dyachei Vulgard Wisdom Nutella
Nutella (2) Achro Syn
Boquise (2) Cape90 robyn
Wisdom (1) Raskolnikov
Robyn (2) Visor Illario
dyachei (1) ladd
Raskolnikov (1) Boquise
Visor (1) Lapras

At 7pm I vote Boq to bring him to with one, ladd ties it but I just remain chill because I understand the thread state and know people will protect boq over illario

:00 votes good/:01 votes bad

Illario (5) EnderWiggin dyachei Vulgard Wisdom Nutella Syn
Boquise (5) Cape90 robyn Raskolnikov Achro ladd
Robyn (2) Visor Illario
Raskolnikov (1) Boquise
Visor (1) Lapras

Illario (6) EnderWiggin dyachei Vulgard Wisdom Nutella Syn
Boquise (4) Cape90 robyn Raskolnikov Achro
Robyn (2) Visor Illario
dyachei (1) ladd
Raskolnikov (1) Boquise
Visor (1) Lapras

Boq wasn’t around for EOD, and my assessment was correct - Boq was never in much genuine danger due to people’s reads. Was Insomnia in any danger from that Cuth vote? I don’t think so tbh, and so I won’t say that is unpairing atm. I need to go through Cuth’s progressions day 1 and see how they make me feel for Insomnia.


Let me walk through EOD1 again, step by step, with our actors known and unknown taking center stage.

Starting at 4:53, just before post cap lifts.

Town Visor votes Town Cape
4:56 vote tally

Cape(5): ladd, insomnia, Dyachei, katze, Visor
Katze (2): Winston, ender
Achro(1): Taffy
Winston(1): cuth
Visor(1): Cape
Taffy(1): SK
Sk(1): achro
Ender(1): benneh

Town Dya votes ??? SK

5pm, Katze reiterates the difference check between cape/insomnia which is a very strange thing to focus on when Cape is just sitting there like a duck and Insomnia is imo good at naturally just vibing along. Very strange w/w attack if it is one

Visor thinks Cuth is a wolf in 456. This doesn’t really change until cuth defends them a lot eod2. Maybe I broke visor’s brain like he broke mine and he was onto something here.

5:04 ??? Keith wonders why we are voting town cape (I share this sentiment at the time as well)
5:06 - ??? Katze votes ??? Keith
5:07 Town visor votes ??? Cuth



silverkeith is gonna write something that people dont understand and at eod he will be executed over cape and then achro will coach cape in wolfchat and theyll endgame together

a tale as old as time

Lmao what the fuck if this is a wolf tbh. This is so unhinged if katze is a wolf that I almost want it to be true.

Then I vote ladd because I wanted MAXIMUM CHAOS

5:09: ??? Winsrton votes Town Visor
5:09 Cape says Insomnia is very obviously town but also at eod thought me and ladd were a wolf so… oh boy Cape lol. Also called Ender wolfy. Oh boy Cape.

Benneh feels very uncaring about anything happening in thread right now, just vibing, no solving, just relaxed as can be. Doesn’t man wolf, but damn does it feel different than most people who are dead villagers or me lol


this, most of all, tells me cape is town

because wtf else is going on there?!


Winston defends Cape


I have killed a thousand towns and a thousand wolves. I fear no cringe. I am the embodiment of mafia justice itself.


Still true tbh, right and wrong doesn’t matter, if I lose then I just got beat nbd.

Have skimmed some of the last pages.

I like cape doing their own thing. Feels ok.

I think dya is ok. I feel like town dya would default to voting me often in this playerlist and in a game where I'm not really posting a lot, because they are really unfamiliar with me and thus I don't see them condifently putting me outside a POE ever. I'm not sure wolf dya takes this exit. Not related but Dya is prolly the player in this game I feel the most confident in reading correctly but that's a really low level of confidence which is fun and exciting.


Feels like genuine solving, not just settling for Cape



remember town: this is the same town that finds Winston is LHF and wolfy :bow:

therefore all sus on me is cringe hmmyes


Based


Reading this makes me sad day 2 went so side ways for me tbh, I had a lot of fun day 1 lol


i legitimately have no idea what you're saying

even if its purpose is to lolcat this post has not met the minimum requirements cape


No solving from benneh at all

Cape(2): ladd, insomnia
Sk(2): Dya, katze
Katze (2): ender, SK
ladd(2): Cape, achro
Achro(1): Taffy
Winston(1): cuth
Ender(1): benneh
Cuth(1): Visor
Visor(1): Winston

5:18 vote count


am i the only one that keeps confusing visor and cuth's posts?

yall should change avatars

Really making me want t believe in the cuth/benneh world lol

Katze solving EOD, SK solving EOD, ladd chilling in bed and was town so… not a difference check vs people who werent solving as much tbf

Winston defended both SK and ladd EOD from my fish attack, hm hm hm….


i am not comfortable voting ladd lol

sry if wrong, maybe ill change my mind in the next 40 min, but i feel like hes a villager fairly strongly as of now

yes i saw ur concerns, im thinking about it, i think the good outweighs the bad

Feels very genuine to me tbh

5:21 Benneh pushes town ender wagon more


No interest in Ender who is a capable mid to late game solver whose world view mostly lines up with mine, at least for day 1.
Pass.

Just remembering the good times, don’t mind me lol

Katze (3): ender, SK, Winston
Cape(2): ladd, insomnia
Sk(2): Dya, katze
ladd(2): Cape, achro
Achro(1): Taffy
Winston(1): cuth
Ender(1): benneh
Cuth(1): Visor

^^ 5:22 votes

So now we have town cape and two ??? in some form of contention. If either is scum these votes should get spicy at some point with unknowns who are alive, since we have 3 wolves in 6 players.

Katze just feels like a PR at this eod tbh lol. So if wolf, they picked their spot well.

Also not sure it makes much sense for katze to claim PR here. I was claimed nilla but I think everyone else didn’t claim, and we have at most one PR left and 3 does make sense to me with scum having a poisoner so idk if poisoner and two goons vs MD and vig even makes sense or not. I don’t know standard 13er setups tbh. KP seems really strong though.

5:24 - Cuth votes SK, bringing him to a tie with Katze at 3. Real hard time seeing them paired

5:25 SK, tied with Katze for the lead, feels very selective in their vote agreeing with ladd that we shouldn’t go for Katze or Cape



nope

In response to benneh saying they confuse visor/cuth posts. Would be pretty cute if the team is exactly cuth/insomnia/benneh ngl



im getting the feeling i accidentally skipped one or did not fully digest your wallpost.

Based and town probably lol


I've backread a bit and I don't want to lunch taffy, mostly because I think their post building structure makes them a player that's possible to read for me.


Good take

5:27 votals

Katze (3): ender, SK, Winston
Sk(3): Dya, katze, cuth
Cape(2): ladd, insomnia
ladd(1): achro
Achro(1): Taffy
Ender(1): benneh
Cuth(1): Visor
Visor(1): Cape


About half way through EOD and I detect zero agenda from either SK or Katze btw. Both feel like they are fucking CONFUSED which feels about right.


idk im just kinda skimming and don't have a clue

some things he's doing feel overblown for me. like saying winston will be found as lhf and wolfy when most of the thread found him villagery already feels fake, unless i missed some posts where people were debating killing him


Not really a firm stance for someone voting Cape and also Insomnia isn’t pushing any other ideas really, whereas others are.


i mean sure let's talk about it

you think he's a wolf who's just stonewalling every time he's asked for clarification? it's not like he hasn't been in thread a fair number of times, and i think he would just feel more pressure to actually say stuff (anything) if he was w

Ender probably not wolf


i like winston more than i did earlier

kinda concerned about benneh and by extension ladd a little bit but also think the ladd wagon here is absolutely bonkers

the size and wobbliness of the poe concerns me

Concerned about benneh



vote: benneh


Votes Benneh


vote: benneh

stop trying to kill my town reads tbh


I IMMEDIATELY follow up after seeing this because I am hard town reading ender at this point



cape, how come katze is such an obv villager now? last time i checked you were conflicted

Wolfy as fuck post, milord



i'm presenting in a meeting that starts in 4 mins so i prob won't be able to change my vote as we get to eod

will prob stay on ender here unless there' more clarity in the next few mins


Okay so Benneh had to miss the last 30 minutes for work stuff, that makes sense and is of course NAI, so Benneh started the ender wagon (town) and then had to peace, np np aside from the obvious problems unrelated to absence.

Anyway at 5:32 these are the votes posted by Rask

Benneh(3): Winston, cuth, Achro
Sk(2): Dya, katze
Katze (2): ender, SK
Cape(2): ladd, insomnia
Achro(1): Taffy
Ender(1): benneh
Cuth(1): Visor
Visor(1): Cape

Benneh has taken the lead, which makes me happy in my current world view, let’s see how this plays out.


vote: achro

wahoo


But… why? He has called me town all day and I just put one of his suspects in the lead by agreeing that ender was probably town. Huh?


oop i forgot to bold my vote

vote: ender


vote: taffy

teehee

Cuth seems to be having fun, which I am all for, but not really sure where the solving is coming from. In contrast to katze and SK, who feel like they are pulling their hair out.



think im good with voting cape still, i took a look back and checked

still feel the same way about his reads. even in this position he doesn't seem to have a strong reason for a wolf read

he's voted 2 people on the basis of "i feel you are a wolf"

Very, imo, mechanical reasoning. Robotic. I don’t feel the thoughts here (this could be genuine, just stating my pov) like this is a … idk, generic reason to find someone wolfy? ‘Reasonable’ but it turned out to be not true, you know?



i'm actually just confused now

but the volatility here is funny


I don’t know what Cuth is confused about, they don’t ask questions and they don’t post much int he way of EOD progression.

SK calls out Insomnia for the post that I too think is wolfy AF above and votes them at 5:37. This is in my eyes never W/W based on the angle SK took here. This felt reactionary and if this is the pairing I’d be super impressed.



vote: insomnia

sheeping SK

okay now I am gone

(my spider sense agrees)

Based (maybe)


katze being at the same place they were a while ago is wolf indicative of them yesyes mhmmm


Keith going to check on Katze’s reads during EOD feels towny from SK, like he is actively solving and going back and checking things.




As soon as I vote Benneh to put him in the lead, mere minutes later Cuth votes off Benneh and onto Ender… huh? What is the progression here? It certainly isn’t stated in topic. What happened here?



I've liked what Cuth has to say but not vibing with his votes


Okay I just… idk. This is such a good take in hindsight. YES Cuth’s words sound good, but NO their votes are all really bad lol. Like… I think EOD1 is really convincing me on SK being town tbh.

Insomnia and Cuth have a conversation at 5:41 on cape that sounds like nothing, and also Cuth feels like they dont have much suspicion for Insomnia atp.


the timing or the content? because i think i've voted over half the playerlist in the last ten minutes

Both? I'm not sure what your actual reads are, but saw you voting me and taffy and idk who else which was hmmm


SK feels genuinely probing here tbh

Then at 5:44 Cuth votes Visor for seemingly no reason

5:45 vote list

Cape(3): ladd, insomnia, ender
Ender(2): benneh, katze
insomnia(2): SK, Achro
Visor(2): Cape, Cuth
Katze (1): Winston
Sk(1): Dya
Achro(1): Taffy
Cuth(1): Visor



out of this eod I think ladd/cape are town.

I'm ok with Dya town. I'm currently ok with Achro being town.

Taffy maybe town


This man is reppiing a 5/5 town list eod1 lol


why?

To Insomnia saying ender will have more votes, it just feels unpairing af lol

Then Ender (town) votes ??? Insomnia at 5:47

Town visor defends insomnia. Town ladd defends insomnia

insomnia(3): SK, Achro, ender
Cape(2): ladd, insomnia
Ender(2): benneh, katze
Visor(2): Cape, Cuth
Katze (1): Winston
Sk(1): Dya
Achro(1): Taffy
Cuth(1): Visor

Then…



5:51 - Cuth votes Cape. Which is… weird, right? Because 10 minutes or so earlier Cuth was defending Cape TO Insomnia who was the leading wagon. So if you think Insomnia is off base, why vote Cape 10 minutes later? It’s such strange progression for someone who puts a lot of thought into their words and sounds thoughtful.
5:51 - Katze says maybe cape is maybe towny?


i'm not really feeling it

unless like benneh is wolfing or something


Cuth connects wolf benneh to wolf katze, which doesn’t make much sense for benneh/cuth/katze worlds but makes a ot of sense for v!katze wolf benneh/cuth worlds


towny post from visor regardless of achro alignment imo


I believe SK believes this tbh

5:55 votes

Cape(4): ladd, insomnia, Cuth, ender
insomnia(2): SK, Achro
Ender(2): benneh, katze
ladd(1): Cape
Katze (1): Winston
Sk(1): Dya
Achro(1): Taffy
Cuth(1): Visor

5:56 he votes Ender which is why Ender claimed PR. Then back to Visor for reasons I don’t know (I am sure he said something prior to EOD, I just dont know them)

Katze votes Cape which is a reasonable vote from town there too, matches world view and uncertainty

Taffy votes Cuth

5:59 votes


6:00 votes

Cape(4): ladd, insomnia, ender, katze
Ender(2): benneh, , Winston
insomnia(2): SK, Achro
Visor(1): , Cuth
ladd(1): Cape,
Cuth(2): Visor, Taffy
Sk(1): Dya
Achro(0):

Just after Cuth sneaks in a vote for insomnia and after its just a handful of glgl messages so this vote was likely placed in the last 30 seconds or so. It just didn’t matter at all.



So, let's talk about my CURRENT solve, and the steps I am going be taking to see if the rest of the thread confirms it or debunks it.

My conclusion based off of both EODs is that Cuth's EOD voting agenda shielded Insomnia day 1 contrary to their world view as stated, and then did the same thing with Benneh day 2. I am going to look at more things but as of THIS moment if looks like to me Cuth is a savvy wolf who spun good yarns with their words but in actuality always at the end of the day made sure Benneh and Insomnia were not in any danger of dying, despite a lot of world view perspective (and me offering to murder benneh over their top town read day 2, visor). It's very contradictory, and directly implicates Benneh and Insomnia. Now, either one of these could be misdirection of course but I also notice it is LYLO and although lots of words are thrown about these 3 started today pushing the same agenda.

"Katze is wolfy AF, but SK I mean SK is what it is, right?" is the sense I got from benneh. Pretending to care about katze first, probably to make Winston happy in their Katze tunnel, and if Winston murdered Katze then all the better no mess no fuss, but if there was push back on Katze no problem, we've got SK.

Insomnia - "SK is like, lock scum." Cool, straight forward, simple.

Cuth - "Benneh... god I want you so dead! Like... grrr... but I'll always kill SK before you in lylo :)"

As opposed to Winston, who feels a lot like Taffy did this game where they got a tunnel early and if I was wolf katze would have said 'fuck it', killed winston 100%, and just moved on with life tbh. I also think Katze has posted very well this game and think taffy might be overestimating their wolf range a bit in paranoia (or I am wrong)

But SK... just had nothing but good takes that added up and felt like there was no agenda EOD1 lol. Just, all good takes and asking the right questions to people who now need to be his wolf buddies and I just aint seeing it. Which is a bit of Winston's world view too, which also makes me trust winston is maybe just tunneled on katze a bit.

I still have a lot of things to look over, including sitting down and continuing to read the thread, but based off EOD voting and LYLO Agenda if you squint these 3 have a lot of equity together.

Sorry for the huge post, I told you I would struggle with 50 posts a day. A legitimate skill issue.

[katze]

ah right, i guess i was taking cuth as a villager in my mind since he's one of my 2 clears

nice post if w/w m'lord

also what did you want me to respond to i just got out of bed and am staring down a buncha walls

14

[nebjiamn]

katze have you sorted out why dya died yet

[katze]

katze have you sorted out why dya died yet

i still think it makes the wolf equity of at least one of achro/cuth go up quite a bit but im not overthinking it as much today

have you sorted out your wolf role pm yet

15

[nebjiamn]

i still think it makes the wolf equity of at least one of achro/cuth go up quite a bit but im not overthinking it as much today

have you sorted out your wolf role pm yet

15
yea, it makes the wolf equity of everyone else go down cause i have no partners i'm just a serial killer

uh, ok. its pretty obvios to me dya died because they wanted sk dead pretty badly and would have probly voted him today.

unless sk is v then lol

[katze]

you claim to be a serial killer, but then ponder whether or not SK can be V

curious!

16

[nebjiamn]

you claim to be a serial killer, but then ponder whether or not SK can be V

curious!

16
fbi come get this post

[Achro]

yea, it makes the wolf equity of everyone else go down cause i have no partners i'm just a serial killer

uh, ok. its pretty obvios to me dya died because they wanted sk dead pretty badly and would have probly voted him today.

unless sk is v then lol

Cuth wanted him dead. Insomnia wanted him dead. You wanted him dead.

Why dya? That's not a difference check. It's poor, flawed reasoning.

I have a guess as to why dya tbh

It was the only non-wolf on the wagon for you to push this SK is wolf narrative with.

Thoughts?

Opinions?

[nebjiamn]

Cuth wanted him dead. Insomnia wanted him dead. You wanted him dead.

Why dya? That's not a difference check. It's poor, flawed reasoning.

I have a guess as to why dya tbh

It was the only non-wolf on the wagon for you to push this SK is wolf narrative with.

Thoughts?

Opinions?
my thoughts are you are a pretty bad villager despite your amazing record this year

[SilverKeith]

I woke up but won't be around until a couple of hours.

Skimmed what was said. I think I should be the one to vote. I am intending to vote one of my pushers (insom/benneh/cuth).

Thoughts?

[katze]

shitposts aside;

yeah that's certainly possible. really, regardless of SKs alignment, their desire to murder him makes them a reasonable NK. im thinking it over less becuz i realized that dya was like... they werent a CONSENSUS VILLAGER but i dont think they were ever getting voted TODAY and thats enough for wolves to kill them and aim for a f7 win i guess.

it still feels like a weird kill tho lol idt cuth was ever dying today and if achros a villa he'll post an ungodly amount of words to escape death or something but #thefear so shrug idk

i don't rly think "wanting SK dead" was a super unique trait altho i concede dya was prob one of the bigger pushers of that

i was briefly considering you killed dya so they wouldnt catch u today but i dont actually believe that

17

[Achro]

my thoughts are you are a pretty bad villager despite your amazing record this year

I've heard that before. Although from more wolves lately than town. I suppose I should just vote you soon and get this over with either way, if that's all you've got for me. I am not one for delaying the inevitable and then you can forget all about me I suppose.

[nebjiamn]

to answer, cuth could be a wolf, i agree with you. also, he's been pretty widely v read and is still alive and considering dya's position relative to cuth its a bit odd they died over him.

insomnia i think is a villager but he was also heavily poe'd yesterday and nearly died. why would he die over dya iyo if the missing piece is that sk is a wolf?

[katze]

I woke up but won't be around until a couple of hours.

Skimmed what was said. I think I should be the one to vote. I am intending to vote one of my pushers (insom/benneh/cuth).

Thoughts?

my thoughts are that if you/benneh are both villagers then we were probably never getting there

[katze]

but also to probably educate yourself on the game before you vote because your perspective if V is probs better than mine etc etc

like for example i think achro could v easily just be pocketing me rn, he's definitely appeasing to me, i'm choosing to believe it's as town

could be wrong, wouldn't really be super shocked, but thats just how i feel it rn. mbe from your pov it looks more clearcut, dno

speaking of him i know he asked me about the cape/insom difference check and it was really a matter of a chunk of my insom TR at that point being a disassociative with cape and without that i found his posts to be pretty meh, easily in his wolf wheelhouse. rn im a bit less sure if "easily in his wolf wheelhouse" applies but the jury is up on that

19

[Achro]

but also to probably educate yourself on the game before you vote because your perspective if V is probs better than mine etc etc

like for example i think achro could v easily just be pocketing me rn, he's definitely appeasing to me, i'm choosing to believe it's as town

could be wrong, wouldn't really be super shocked, but thats just how i feel it rn. mbe from your pov it looks more clearcut, dno

speaking of him i know he asked me about the cape/insom difference check and it was really a matter of a chunk of my insom TR at that point being a disassociative with cape and without that i found his posts to be pretty meh, easily in his wolf wheelhouse. rn im a bit less sure if "easily in his wolf wheelhouse" applies but the jury is up on that

19


Katze, you're treating my wolf range like other people treat yours imo.

Just some feedback from my seat rn.

[nebjiamn]

shitposts aside;

yeah that's certainly possible. really, regardless of SKs alignment, their desire to murder him makes them a reasonable NK. im thinking it over less becuz i realized that dya was like... they werent a CONSENSUS VILLAGER but i dont think they were ever getting voted TODAY and thats enough for wolves to kill them and aim for a f7 win i guess.

it still feels like a weird kill tho lol idt cuth was ever dying today and if achros a villa he'll post an ungodly amount of words to escape death or something but #thefear so shrug idk

i don't rly think "wanting SK dead" was a super unique trait altho i concede dya was prob one of the bigger pushers of that

i was briefly considering you killed dya so they wouldnt catch u today but i dont actually believe that

17
i've kind of wavered on achro over the game but i'm taking him as a v here. i think the combo of him making a humongous post about the me/dya/visor team (in comination with dya dying after a visor v flip) while visor was 'redchecked' and THEN being super toxic itt about it after is super unlikely to be from a wolf

i entertained both of those being things he could do as a wolf but the combo to me just kinda convinces me hes not and if he is then go with god etc.

also his volatility in reads seems way more fluid than i remember him wolfing on here a few months ago. i feel like his reads were a lot more static and less nuanced and i'm not seeing that here

unfortunate since even if i'm right on sk and maybe others i will probly need his vote at some point

[katze]

keith when you get back what do you think about myself and winston?

im also feeling like this game makes a lot more sense if there's a wolf in me and him and i know one side of it is pure. but i dont want to fully discount him just not wanting a repeat of our last game

altho i feel like hes hardly DOING ANYTHING, which is ironic since hes docking me on impact :P


Katze, you're treating my wolf range like other people treat yours imo.

Just some feedback from my seat rn.

only out of respect tbh. like i said i believe it's from town but ive definitely noticed it!

the villa explanation is obv there so im rly only pointing it out to see if my perspective is jaded

20

[nebjiamn]

I've heard that before. Although from more wolves lately than town. I suppose I should just vote you soon and get this over with either way, if that's all you've got for me. I am not one for delaying the inevitable and then you can forget all about me I suppose.

achro,

consider that you are the one being dismissive with your question to me

i dont care if you wolf read me here. its werewolf and its fine to be wrong etc, but you cant ask for my game input by forcing me to answer from the point of view that i'm a wolf and then say i'm not cooperating with you.

[Achro]

achro,

consider that you are the one being dismissive with your question to me

i dont care if you wolf read me here. its werewolf and its fine to be wrong etc, but you cant ask for my game input by forcing me to answer from the point of view that i'm a wolf and then say i'm not cooperating with you.


I was not meaning to do that, I am sorry it came off that way. I was sharing my world view at the moment because for it to be SK/?/? then that means there were other villagers besides dya who wanted to murder SK.

So I am asking you, perhaps glibly because god glib is better than being a dick about things, to do a new theory on why dya because yours doesn't really add up to me especially in cuth v worlds because cuth was much more town read and pushed sk SUPER hard eod.

Now, tbf, you have said you think cuth could be scum with SK, so okay you are perhaps trying to tell me that your explanation is obvious and maybe it's something like... cuth/sk/winston where cuth/sk were running a lot of strats.

Is cuth known for doing hard bussing like that? It didn't come off as bussing to me. What are your thoughts?

[SilverKeith]

but also to probably educate yourself on the game before you vote because your perspective if V is probs better than mine etc etc

like for example i think achro could v easily just be pocketing me rn, he's definitely appeasing to me, i'm choosing to believe it's as town

could be wrong, wouldn't really be super shocked, but thats just how i feel it rn. mbe from your pov it looks more clearcut, dno

speaking of him i know he asked me about the cape/insom difference check and it was really a matter of a chunk of my insom TR at that point being a disassociative with cape and without that i found his posts to be pretty meh, easily in his wolf wheelhouse. rn im a bit less sure if "easily in his wolf wheelhouse" applies but the jury is up on that

19

I'm not "snapping" if that's your concern.

I share your concerns regarding Achro. If wolf Achro, he's interested in riding w/ me today and voting a villager. Even if he loses the cross for w/e reason I'm still "chained" to him and misslunched at F5. Tho I don't currently feel he's doing this, him reaching me town by reading my eod1 is maddening because if he's a wolf he's hitting the exact spots I want him to hit. I don't think my eod1 was bad. I think it's unconventional and I'm partially tilted (not angry, just tilted within the reasonable parameters of the game, in a non toxic way) because I feel like ppl have just decided I'm a wolf bc I have a different way of seeing and saying shit.

So either y'all fuckers reconciliate why my eod was actually bad and achro is pocketing me or I ride with Achro and try to see who shaded me for bad reasons.

I'm currently at 2/3 of my pushers being wolves (maybe3/3?) and one outside that which is scary bc I don't think there's a lot of definitive unpairings.

I currently have in my head who I want to vote but I'm open for that to change after rereading and talking

[SilverKeith]

I sort of agree with you katze that the game makes more sense that way but to answer what I think of you and Winston.

Idk. And not only I do not know, but I don't know how to even know, if that makes sense. My mental process for Winston was seeing other ppl claim he's good and me liking his tone and acknowledging that he could be a wolf.

Similar to you. I think you could be wolfing here. I'm not... Sure how to get there. Maybe with pairings/unpairings. Seeing who you pushed or decided not to push.

But in my mind I think it's a lot more easier for me personally to check at benneh insom cuth and see who of them has pushed me for wolfy reasons and who's actually just a wrong villager. I don't need to have the full team here. Just one.

[nebjiamn]

I was not meaning to do that, I am sorry it came off that way. I was sharing my world view at the moment because for it to be SK/?/? then that means there were other villagers besides dya who wanted to murder SK.

So I am asking you, perhaps glibly because god glib is better than being a dick about things, to do a new theory on why dya because yours doesn't really add up to me especially in cuth v worlds because cuth was much more town read and pushed sk SUPER hard eod.

Now, tbf, you have said you think cuth could be scum with SK, so okay you are perhaps trying to tell me that your explanation is obvious and maybe it's something like... cuth/sk/winston where cuth/sk were running a lot of strats.

Is cuth known for doing hard bussing like that? It didn't come off as bussing to me. What are your thoughts?
i don't think i would describe what cuth was doing as 'hard bussing' is where i think the difference in our perspective might be. i think both he and SK have been seemingly ~flat with their pushes the closer to EOD the days gone on

like, cuth's done very well at being villagery in the middle of the day. i think a lot of the reason people (i include myself here) have v read him is he's pushed interesting ideas and pulled threads others weren't in on. but when it came to eod, he's just kind of flatly voting and not 'pushing' (e.g. hard bussing) anyone in particular? i think thats possibly indicative of him having TMI and possibly having a partner he has to dance around at eod while maintaining his cred he's accumulated during the day

i think v!cuth is way more willing to really sell a wolf read he has. i think you're right, if he really wanted someone like me dead, i'd probably be dead and he'd do it by expanding on his mid day case and pushing more on that

i don't see that progression from his midday stuff to his EOD work

[insomnia]

to answer, cuth could be a wolf, i agree with you. also, he's been pretty widely v read and is still alive and considering dya's position relative to cuth its a bit odd they died over him.

insomnia i think is a villager but he was also heavily poe'd yesterday and nearly died. why would he die over dya iyo if the missing piece is that sk is a wolf?

and im sk's primary push, so if i die it's gonna look grim for him


katze, i never said i had anything to ask

[nebjiamn]

and yes, i think winston could be the 3rd one out. i think katze could be too.

i don't think insomnia makes sense with those two since that would mean cuth and sk decided to push their wolfbro when a claimed PR and silverkeith and myself were options

kind of less concerned about the '3rd wolf' though since i think cuth still has some v equity in w!sk worlds but that'd mean i'm misclearing someone between insom/achro

[nebjiamn]

lets get 1 wolf at least

lol

[insomnia]

so far sk's posts are bad, but it's not like he's getting into deep waters yet

i'll reserve my points until after i see him do some actual work

[insomnia]

i also think his "secret" vote is probably me

[Achro]

nebjiamn okay, my next question since from your POV you know you're a villager, why doesn't w!Cuth vote you ever at eod2? You were actually tied with visor, a hard town read, at 3-3 and he had repped suspicion in such a way that I felt a vote on you was easy - I even asked him to vote for you but he never voted for you, instead opting to push on hypothetical w!SK. Also, today, at lylo, instead of pushing for you for the game ending ML (and you being my strongest scum read as a villager, it'd probably be pretty easy to set that up) why do you think he is still trying to say that he'd go SK before you? I know it's just speculation somewhat but I need some help even if it is just speculative, because I can't think of a reason that's not 'you're a wolf.' Which, if you're town, is 100% my skill issue I grant you so I don't mind reaching out and asking for your imagination.

Anyone can answer this by the way. If you look at my big post about EOD2 I don't see any reason why w!cuth busses w!sk there and never votes v!benneh when v!benneh is in the lead and w!cuth has a wonderful opportunity to follow me onto benneh and hard push a strong village player out of the game and cozy up to the vig at the same time.

SOD 2, let's look for living player Agenda! and tbh I will probably read a lot of day 2 and quote my three suspects and see if they ever do anything that I find unpairing, and if they do I can re-eval katze/winston some more or if I just ship it.

Visor votes me, and honestly I wish he had shot me lol


will probs not be super active today for irl reasons that are non alignment indicative and i will probably get annoyed if someone were to imply otherwise so please dont
EnderWiggin you need to hardclaim your PR and results if applicable asap
insomnia im probably sheeping you today and killing you tonight if we ML today, glgl

Insomnia post by Katze matches their EOD thoughts about how they think Insomnia could very well be wolfing in town cape worlds.


if you say so, even night vigilante in a game with a poisoner

idk why you’d even react like this tho, i had ender / ladd villas and had the same wolf guess as ladd did


Insomnia is like, legitimately trembling at katze suspecting them lol. This feels so not paired. Like if it's katze/insomnia hats off tbh, but the tone feels genuinely concerned to me (note: I was joking about the trembling part)


probably going to go back and reread later tonight with more info but i skimmed a bit after the flip and i was not a fan of silverkeiths eod at all

kinda hedgy on cape but no defense. i didn't like the insomnia wagon he spun up or how he was kinda ignoring ender despite ender being in his poe. i note he asked me for clarity on 'why ender' and also pushed back on insomnia about ender receiving votes for his eod posting

idk felt like undue scrutiniy on a poe vote maybe laced with tmi?

Benneh/SK never w/w and this feels like wolf agenda given what I now know about SK's EOD - he wasn't very hedgy, he asked why the Cape wagon took off, started the counter wagon, and then asked us not to info chop before going 'I guess it's fine.' That's not hedgy at all, if SK is a wolf and benneh town then he has done a not great job here of making me feel this attack lands. Which happens at times of course, maybe I am very skill issue'd on SK, but it doesn't feel like it from my vantage point given the facts.

The quotes Benneh pulls from SK are like... fine lol.

Like Benneh votes Ender, but suddenly has a problem with SK not liking Ender?


yes lol

see quotes above

it felt like there was a focus on you for defense despite him being in your poe

meanwhile i think he just kinda pushed insom outta nowhere?

it looks good if insomnia is wolf but without knowing fmpov it just feels off. maybe like a wolf wanting to be 'right'

similar with cape maybe


The bold is a misrep. SK's quote says this:


The only thing I have to say about ender is that he townread me for my wall which sucked and he shouldn't know me that much to townread me for it but i'm biased about this.

SK was explaining his take on ender, not ender's take on him. Now it could just be a coincidence that this happened and benneh is town, but it's really sloppy work if so and in my current POE I don't have a lot of room for mistakes rn. It's more easily explained by a blatant misrep and wolf agenda than it is a simple 'oops'


tinfoiling achro / sk w/w because they both picked up on my lvl 0 wolfy post and stuck to it despite all the content out there

had a recent game where myself and a wolf partner pinged out a wolfy post by a villager in almost the same exact way

SK is wolf agenda from Insomnia to start day 2. Just need Cuth for the trifecta.


ya i gave this a thought too

the volatility of achros reads (e.g. his reverse on SK after wanting him dead up til EOD) also bugged me but i could see that being more town indicative tbh. thoughts?

they do this a lot. talk back and forth in thread pushing what is now clearly wolf-sided agenda lol


ok, but i was doing it all day. why change at EoD?

thought i was ~fine, in your words

lol. What a wolfy post tbh


idk what comment about a PR claim

i said it was obvious that ender was a PR after he claimed and that cuth was wolfy for voting him in that spot

Wonder if this is ever followed up on.


feels like 1 in katze / achro

and then 2 in sk / cuth / winston / i’ll think of it later

Okay, that's Insomnia's early day 2 world view


vote: silverkeith

seems like i can sleepwalk another lunch


seething hatred etc


i mean i was voting everyone

and i don't think i was saying much meaningful by that point

Cuthillius but... why were you voting everyone?


i remember at at least one point voting him because i liked the people voting him

and i didn't feel great about other votes either

at no point did the thought of pr stuff cross my mind but i usually don't really notice those things very well at the best of times

i think my subconscious tries to will mountainous into existence every game until it can't possibly do so

This.. shouldn't be able to be true, I think. You had said earlier day 1 you didn't care for benneh much, and benneh was one of two voting Ender. Can you please explain when you voted who it was on Ender that you liked? This doesn't add up to me.


On the flip side, I have to acknowledge that a team of SK/Winston/? is viable and in that case these two have just completely snowed me tbh


can sk/insomnia be w/w?


One of a wolf's favorite hobbies is trying a wolf buddy to a townie, which one is which who knows for sure~


bottom of my reads because i had villa-ish reads on the rest of the player list but they were not below my 3 primary wolf reads who were taffy/ender/cape

i was far more interested in pursuing ender and taffy at the time of the post. as day moved on taffy felt more villagery on their return so i focused on ender

i'm not sure what i woulda done if i was a little more prsent at eod but c'est la vie and all

0/4 on their day 1 pushes, we'll see about SK.


i think ladd died cuz he would’ve re-eval’d and to put more sus on taffy

This is funny in hindsight because almost no one sussed taffy the entire day 2 lol


Ender was obviously a PR for anyone paying attention, and cuth put him ahead

i made that post more as a heat of the moment thing tho

cuth is wolfy


okay thats a lie i skimmed some of katzes and achros posts

90%

80% on a bad day

very cool solving technique tbh

I remember the time I wanted to solve with ender because I felt lost. Then it didnt happen. Then he fpsed instead. I hate everything day 2 tbh. Miserable day.


Vote: Achro

I changed my mind.

Also my townread on Taffy can be down to "I liked the way they got stuck on the wolfread on Achro and they make sense to me rn."

Yeah I hate day 2. All my homies hate day 2. Trying to solve with my strongest TR into my strongest TR voting me with no real reason given pretty much broke my brain tbh. Skill issue, honestly.


Achro(3): katze, Achro, Taffy
SK(1): Visor
Benneh(1): Ender

Did scum just, leave me the fuck alone all game? lol

Maybe.


sk / katze / +1


insomnia can you please explain what happened to cuth? You mentioned his voting being wolfy but atp you go from sussing him to thinking more of sk/katze and curious as to progression and what posts from the three in between sod and then moved needles for you.



sk/visor/katze gg ur done

benneh/insomnia mindmelding a bit

God, I sucked day 2. Even if I got it wrong today I at least feel like I am making sense. Day 2 was a bad day tbh

I'll leave with this post again, as a real highlight.


okay i have a lot of thoughts but i should really be doing other stuff right now so i will try to distill

i feel moderately strongly that benneh/katze are wolves together lol

main points:

-benneh just wasn't very villagery d1? he was kinda floating around and in particular i think the way in which he was pushing ender all day looks kinda gross in retrospect (well before the possibility of pr stuff i think?)
-katze randomly reads benneh strong v off vibes and basically keeps him there all the way through
--at one point earlyish on benneh makes an offhand jokey comment about this but doesn't really push back or follow through much at all; it's a very sort of i should acknowledge this but actually don't mind it kind of post
-both of them, but especially benneh, are very message-boost-y wrt ladd-- iirc all three of them had more or less the same exact readslist, though iirc benneh was like yeah same but a couple of these names would be lower on mine
-in that context ladd nk would make a lot of sense to cement some level of consensus in the thread and codify his takes before he had chances to reevaluate later, plus there weren't really many super hard clear villagers at that point
-both of them (more so katze) had relatively nuanced reads but at the end of the day basically were always gonna end up on cape/achro/ender, and neither really pushed very hard elsewhere, though there were some meaningless votes thrown around in various directions
--granted this is not unique to either of them but fits the overall narrative wrt ladd stuff and general direction
-also both of them are very shruggy towards sk yeet today in a pretty non-committal way

anyway those are my thoughts i think benneh looks a bit worse than katze but i think he makes the most sense with katze that is all goodbye for now

But just... never votes Benneh eod2. Busses SK supposedly? Starts an insomnia vanity but hops off when it reaches 3? I... just can't find the villager progression at all either EOD.

vote: insomnia

sup

you wolfing?

Like he'll say this, but then nothing ever comes out of it and despite these two posts day 2 day 3 his statement is 'yeeting SK first'

If he is a wolf, why bus SK? If he's town, why so inconsistent with messaging and votes? You had two prime targets that you set up beautifully that were gaining traction EOD in Benneh, never vote, and Insomnia, you vote away from it when he takes the lead.

and frankly SK/Cuth would be some insane theater at EOD in a EOD where SK just sounded more right about things in a genuine way. Like he was asking questions, solving, real timing very well.


My shit tier read on Achro is that he's V because he wouldn't catch himself saying stuff like "yeah I owned SK that time he wolfed in champs" and then proceed to missread me here at the start of the game.

Like, wolf achro's image of what town achro would do is obv read me correctly as a villager even if i'm just w/e'ing a wallpost. His missread of me is genuine imo. Or he faked it absurdly well but i've seen achro be deadass wrong and I've thought to myself "he can't fake being this wrong" and I was right.


based take, honestly

Not seeing a lot of evidence it's not the team I think it is, but willing to be convinced if Winston or Katze want to weigh in.

[nebjiamn]

i don't think w!cuth has the guts to mislunch me to be completely honest

i have been mislunched once in my life (not incl turbos ofc lol) and it was because i had amrock on ignore for 5 years

so some combo of cuth getting cold feet because he knows how hard i would make my elimination if i actually felt i was a threat to die (note: i had some votes yestrday but at no point did i think i was dying over SK or insomnia ... but then we also lunched visor so what do i know) and also how bad he'd look if i actually died there over someone like SK who he was also pushing since the thread consensus around SK was way more wolf around him than me + my rep

its a losing move for cuth to vote me out because silverkeith still probly dies (and even if thats not true, from cuth's pov it probably would be if he's bussing), he loses all v cred he earned earlier and he probly dies, and if thats 2 of the 3 wolves, the other wolf is either katze or winston and its 50/50 at best if that team can win in f3 and thats if its katze in f3

[nebjiamn]

"The bold is a misrep. SK's quote says this:"

its not a misrep at all

ender was in silverkeiths POE. when peopel talked ender he'd then ask "Why ender?" (paraphrasing) and dismiss the reasoning. this was the only person he did this around at EOD1 that was in his POE and i think its indicative of TMI

the post you quoted from SK doesnt really have anything to do with whwt i was saying

[nebjiamn]

i also think you're weighting too heavily how SK pushed back against the cape lunch

cape being lunched was a foregone conclusion. (yes, this is true despite ender having to claim, because everyone thought cape was dead meat day 1 and wolves probably ESPECIALLY thought/knew this). the easiest and laziest post for wolves to make at EOD is defense for a villager thats always dying. what did sk really do to ensure cape didn't die? that was my point. he could have had a much bigger impact if that was his true belief but it wasn't. he mad ejust enough waves to suspect someone else and still have cape die. that is way wolfier than someone being convinced cape was just a wolf

[nebjiamn]

last post kind of brings me to another tangential point, not about sk, but just about myself for a second

I WAS AGAINST CAPE BEING DEAD MEAT MID D1 back when there wasn't really, imo, a reason to wolf read him

everyone just kinda thougth it was cape after he had like 8 posts that i didnt think were alignment indicative and i did not want that to be how D1 rolled out and pushed against it because i am a big proponent of ensuring we have valuable day 1s by not pushing too hard too early on too little

ignore the part that capes posts got wolfy after this and i conceded he's a fine lunch. im only talking about the parts before that thanks :):):)

katze was a big proponent pushing the idea that cape was just dying d1 despite not believing in it so they're probly a dork

[nebjiamn]

game related, but not actually game related. meta stuff re: cape

as an aside but i don't think cape was the 'designated lunch decided pre-game' like everyone was saying and i wish ppl would stop saying that in general

cape was the n1 kill and an obvious villager the last game i played on the org. that was such a weird thing to posit about him always being the d1 here

turns out cape didn't have the same wim/vigor as that game and thats fine but to assume he couldn't post well enough to not be the d1 regardless of alignment when he'd previously done so in a similarly stacked playerlist was like, super disrespectful to cape and also just wrong lol

ily donut boy

[Achro]

This is post 40, I'll just say that I am not really convinced on the merit of some of your arguments as Cuth does not strike me as being afraid of much in tone. Can you, possibly, link me a wolf cuth game? I would like to read it over. If not, I will try to find one on my own.

However, I don't know you at all so perhaps this all makes sense to the rest of the lobby who has played with you before. I will let them weigh in and enjoy my Sunday doing random things, I have pretty much done all of the solo solving that I think I can atp and I need everyone else to fact/sanity check me.

However I genuinely just... don't get the SK post we disagree on. You say SK was relying on Ender's defense of him (SK), but to me the post from SK is like... clear shade on Ender for tring him too lightly.

I think tbf you might be right about the cape stuff in general not being very AI, as there was a lot of movement around that. It's not the 'what' SK did with the Cape stuff, but the 'how' that I like more - especially obviously in wolf Insomnia worlds which I think you discount atm.

SK is a very skilled wolf, granted, and I will probably take the day to glance at some SK EODs as both alignments to see if I can sniff out anything in terms of his usual MO.

But, with the meta stuff and 'Cuth would be afraid of me' I can't take that any further due to lack of experience, sorry to say.

Sorry, regardless of your alignment, I know I can come off as dismissive sometimes but I don't mean it.

No really I am autistic and I say things very directly as both alignments (but I probably creative write more as wolf which is why people tend to let me go because I am purposefully being deceitful) because if I don't I will go on endless adventures of words, if you haven't noticed, so I have learned to try to be super direct but I love re-evaluating this is my favorite part of my town game as you can see from cuth top town -> most wolf even if wrong, I dont mind re-evaling lol. Also I have been a bad villager more times than most people have total mafia games played, one more won't hurt me any so if I am skill issued sorry, I am much more concerned with my reaction to being hard tunneled for two days for reasons that broke my brain, that was imo the only unacceptable action I took this game.

[nebjiamn]

This is post 40, I'll just say that I am not really convinced on the merit of some of your arguments as Cuth does not strike me as being afraid of much in tone. Can you, possibly, link me a wolf cuth game? I would like to read it over. If not, I will try to find one on my own.

However, I don't know you at all so perhaps this all makes sense to the rest of the lobby who has played with you before. I will let them weigh in and enjoy my Sunday doing random things, I have pretty much done all of the solo solving that I think I can atp and I need everyone else to fact/sanity check me.

However I genuinely just... don't get the SK post we disagree on. You say SK was relying on Ender's defense of him (SK), but to me the post from SK is like... clear shade on Ender for tring him too lightly.

I think tbf you might be right about the cape stuff in general not being very AI, as there was a lot of movement around that. It's not the 'what' SK did with the Cape stuff, but the 'how' that I like more - especially obviously in wolf Insomnia worlds which I think you discount atm.

SK is a very skilled wolf, granted, and I will probably take the day to glance at some SK EODs as both alignments to see if I can sniff out anything in terms of his usual MO.

But, with the meta stuff and 'Cuth would be afraid of me' I can't take that any further due to lack of experience, sorry to say.

Sorry, regardless of your alignment, I know I can come off as dismissive sometimes but I don't mean it.

No really I am autistic and I say things very directly as both alignments (but I probably creative write more as wolf which is why people tend to let me go because I am purposefully being deceitful) because if I don't I will go on endless adventures of words, if you haven't noticed, so I have learned to try to be super direct but I love re-evaluating this is my favorite part of my town game as you can see from cuth top town -> most wolf even if wrong, I dont mind re-evaling lol. Also I have been a bad villager more times than most people have total mafia games played, one more won't hurt me any so if I am skill issued sorry, I am much more concerned with my reaction to being hard tunneled for two days for reasons that broke my brain, that was imo the only unacceptable action I took this game.

i can't recall any cuth wolf games off top of my head, i can only recall a few villager ones

both times he was PR and lightly suspected/POE'd by day 2 and then he'd claim

confbias: the fact that he's been v read so much this game means he must be wolf based off meta :wowee:

but for real, my reasoning about him not having the guts isn't a meta read on him, just his personality wise + my ego

also we're cool, sorry i was a dick in response tbh i was just frustrated

[nebjiamn]

for complete clarity its not 'cuth is afraid of me' more than its 'idt cuth has the wherewithal to really push me thru when the other option is much easier and achieves more for his wincon in the longrun'

guts probly not the right word choice

[Cuthillius]

i am afraid of you

[insomnia]

i'd prefer if we didn't wait until the last second cuz i want time to read between the cross

i just don't really know who should vote and it feels weird to appoint someone to do it early too

[Cuthillius]

i'd prefer if we didn't wait until the last second cuz i want time to read between the cross

i just don't really know who should vote and it feels weird to appoint someone to do it early too

i would really appreciate at least some time today to figure things out in my brain because i was super duper busy yesterday and also things are weird and different

[nebjiamn]

i am afraid of you
just like we rehearsed it in wolf chat, nicely done

[insomnia]

i would really appreciate at least some time today to figure things out in my brain because i was super duper busy yesterday and also things are weird and different

obviously, hopefully it'll get down like T-5h mark max

[Winston Hughes]

reminder that i have to vote at least ~6 hours before eod

[Winston Hughes]

Achro

before you run out of posts until after i've voted, who exactly do you want me to vote for here?

(not saying i'll sheep it, but i'd at least like the option)

[Achro]

Achro

before you run out of posts until after i've voted, who exactly do you want me to vote for here?

(not saying i'll sheep it, but i'd at least like the option)

Confidence order atm:

Cuth (their words and eod vote patterns are a wolf almost every time imo, their agenda can be debated among suspects but this I feel rings true) >> Benneh >> Insomnia

I would like no other votes placed than these 3, in that order unless you can reconcile how Cuth's EOD votes and thoughts before EOD can come from a town member, and explain it to me. Because I am atp baffled and completely do not see any progression or consistency in how he chose to apply his votes other than 'not benneh and not insomnia at key times' which can be somehow agenda with one of them being town, 'i guess', but it just all feels super agenda'd and the fact that our common tr SK picked up on it makes me feel good about them from my world view sine we saw the same things.

If it's the theoretical team of you/sk/? I am so getting snowed rn reading back lol. Wont even deny it.

[Winston Hughes]

If you dont mind humoring me for a moment, let’s operate in a world for a brief time where Benneh is flipped wolf and Katze is killed tonight as town. What would your thoughts for the final 2 partners be in that world? You’ve been on Katze since day 1, much like Taffy was on me day 1, and I think it would do the game good for you to put that read away for a little bit and explore town katze worlds.If katze is a PR they may die tonight after all, so its good to get started since we really don’t want to be voting Katze today anyway. Live in that world for a bit and lmk what you think, or if you can think of a team without katze AND benneh I guess, but those are your top two suspects so probably not. Thank you! We agree on a lot so interested to hear your thoughts

since i don't think it's you, there's only one team it can be without katze and benneh

if benneh is wolf and katze isn't, that leaves 2 out of sk, cuth, and insomnia; insomnia trying to get sk chopped last night would seem unlikely there, so i figure it's cuth in both worlds; the remaining two, meh, flip a coin at this point (i mean, i could do some reading back, and maybe i will, but i don't feel like it right now)

[Achro]

since i don't think it's you, there's only one team it can be without katze and benneh

if benneh is wolf and katze isn't, that leaves 2 out of sk, cuth, and insomnia; insomnia trying to get sk chopped last night would seem unlikely there, so i figure it's cuth in both worlds; the remaining two, meh, flip a coin at this point (i mean, i could do some reading back, and maybe i will, but i don't feel like it right now)

If you don't feel like reading back I went over eod1 and eod2 in my history in spoilers so you can just read that with my commentary. I break down most of the major posts and votes between the alive people, you can always double check my work by reading back but it's all there for you as well as a lot of SOD2 stuff where I discuss a possible narrative against SK that makes me think SK is just unlikely.

42

[SilverKeith]

so far sk's posts are bad, but it's not like he's getting into deep waters yet

i'll reserve my points until after i see him do some actual work

I know you're saying "Ill reserve my points after he posts work" but that just sounds like "I'll see where he's wrong in his solve and drill into that for people to see".

You think my posts so far are bad... explain then. Tell me exactly why do you think are bad.

Because just saying my posts are bad is so... meaningless, empty, nonsensical. It doesn't mean anything at all I post like shit as both alignment and I can craft well made and reasonable posts and views as either alignment either. I won't say it isn't AI, because it is sometimes, but it seems like you're so focused on keeping up the narrative that you're just mindlessly repeating it.

Like, you talk about me but what you've done this eod that is definitely villagery? It seems to me like you are a wolf who already knows he has won because one of cuth/benneh/whoever is a villager who's never reconciliating with town!sk idea and never reevaluating.

This goes to Cuthillius nebjiamn too. Explain why I'm currently a wolf in your worldviews.

Also yeah Insom my secret vote was you but I'm interested in knowing why you thought that?

[SilverKeith]

I'll vote in like, an hour or so if everyone's ok with that.

[Winston Hughes]

I'll vote in like, an hour or so if everyone's ok with that.

wait, sorry, why are you doing that? ~:confused:

[Achro]

I'll vote in like, an hour or so if everyone's ok with that.

Please comment on my Cuth thoughts, Insomnia is my third strongest wolf read and it would make today hard for me if you vote there just fyi.

[SilverKeith]

"The bold is a misrep. SK's quote says this:"

its not a misrep at all

ender was in silverkeiths POE. when peopel talked ender he'd then ask "Why ender?" (paraphrasing) and dismiss the reasoning. this was the only person he did this around at EOD1 that was in his POE and i think its indicative of TMI

the post you quoted from SK doesnt really have anything to do with whwt i was saying

It is a misrep (tho not really one I can fault ppl for making) when you consider the reason Ender was in my POE.

Even if someone is in my poe I'd like to know the reason why they are being pushed. So I asked. And then you asnwered. And then I decided those reasons were bad. And I was correct.


I think winston is funny and have liked their style so my current poe is made of all the ppl I've had nothing to say about (Visor/Benneh/Ender/Insom) + Taffy who has apparently posted and I should prolly read.

I'm not very good at finding wolves (most of the time) so I try to find villagers and POE the wolves. Ender was in my poe yes but I had literally nother against him other than he hadn't townpingued me.

[Winston Hughes]

for clarity, i've never been in one of these votes-lock-at-lylo situations, so don't assume i fully understand the implications

[Achro]

for clarity, i've never been in one of these votes-lock-at-lylo situations, so don't assume i fully understand the implications

if someone votes, and they cross vote, those are the two choices and at least one is a wolf. If a villager votes a villager first, it is all over for village.

[Winston Hughes]

if someone votes, and they cross vote, those are the two choices and at least one is a wolf. If a villager votes a villager first, it is all over for village.

so why would a villager vote with half the day still to go, then?

[SilverKeith]

wait, sorry, why are you doing that? ~:confused:

I think we should put the first vote early-ish and I think I should cross with someone here based on the fact that half the game wanted me dead yday.


Please comment on my Cuth thoughts, Insomnia is my third strongest wolf read and it would make today hard for me if you vote there just fyi.

I'll comment on what you have to say about Cuth in a bit. But I'm partially wary because I'm not sure a team of those three is reasonable actually. Like, they just decide on the same configuration of blindly pushing me? And then I flip town there and Visor shoots one of them and they lose all of their cred? I'm not that sure about that. I think one of you/katze/winston is a wolf. And I'm wary of being one of you/katze because they will want me to vote whoever could be a villager between my three pushers. So yeah I'm kind of riding the theory of y'all three being mostly villagers but I'm trying to make thoughts on my own and not be potentially sweet talked.

You're saying Cuth now and Katze said me/benneh were never v/v so... Idk. I'm wary. And tempted to vote Insom because If he's a wolf I think he'd be the one wolves would put their stocks in, if that makes sense.

[SilverKeith]

so why would a villager vote with half the day still to go, then?

Because every vote creates new information and we need time to digest that information.

If I cross with X, and game doesn't end, it means there's for sure a wolf between us (or two).

If then Z votes me, then it means Z and X are wolves, or I am one (or all three).

[Achro]

I think we should put the first vote early-ish and I think I should cross with someone here based on the fact that half the game wanted me dead yday.



I'll comment on what you have to say about Cuth in a bit. But I'm partially wary because I'm not sure a team of those three is reasonable actually. Like, they just decide on the same configuration of blindly pushing me? And then I flip town there and Visor shoots one of them and they lose all of their cred? I'm not that sure about that. I think one of you/katze/winston is a wolf. And I'm wary of being one of you/katze because they will want me to vote whoever could be a villager between my three pushers. So yeah I'm kind of riding the theory of y'all three being mostly villagers but I'm trying to make thoughts on my own and not be potentially sweet talked.

You're saying Cuth now and Katze said me/benneh were never v/v so... Idk. I'm wary. And tempted to vote Insom because If he's a wolf I think he'd be the one wolves would put their stocks in, if that makes sense.

If you think the latter I think you're going to lose the game atm, but I can't stop you.

They didn't really blindly push you much tbh. I think, personally and just my pov, if you are a villager you are using pretty bad reasons for unaligning people when the eods were more nuanced than you are making them seem.

katze/insom don't make a lot of sense together fwiw

katze doesnt make a lot of sense with anyone reading their game, just like you dont imo

do what you think is best though.

[Winston Hughes]

hmm, i suppose it will either make the rest of the game more interesting or end it straight away so i can stop thinking about it

:2thumbsup:

[Achro]

but if you vote before cuth has a chance to address my concerns I am snap voting you
SilverKeith

just fyi

[nebjiamn]

It is a misrep (tho not really one I can fault ppl for making) when you consider the reason Ender was in my POE.

Even if someone is in my poe I'd like to know the reason why they are being pushed. So I asked. And then you asnwered. And then I decided those reasons were bad. And I was correct.



I'm not very good at finding wolves (most of the time) so I try to find villagers and POE the wolves. Ender was in my poe yes but I had literally nother against him other than he hadn't townpingued me.
now you're misrepping me (or now i'm realizing i worded it poorly)

my issue is not specifically that you asked why ender was pushed, its that ender was the only one from those in your poe you showed such care about

plus that, by stating you disagreed with why he was being pushed you're showing that you need something beyond just them being in your poe, and taht is 100% fine, but what was the progression and why were you pushing on insomnia at eod? why didn't you push harder on me or visor or at least look more into us?

THATS my point. your posts read like you cared about being right, not trying to figure out things or push them. 'dont kill cape' but didnt try very hard to save him. 'why ender?' an then disagree with the reasoning but not really try to diffuse the wagon. etc

[SilverKeith]

Understood even if I do not think you're snapvoting me.

If you're clearing katze/me your worry is 2 out of Benneh/Cuth/Insom and winston I'm getting?
Hmmmm.

re:your points with cuth that he doesn't vote benneh ever, eh. If I'm arguing for hypothetical v!cuth, he jumped votes all over the place so maybe he didn't land on benneh. If I'm arguing on w!cuth then yeah he might be with wolf benneh and don't want to bus each other, just pretend like they're having some kind of conflict while distancing.

Sadly I'll have to somewhat agree with Benneh here that w!cuth prolly has like a meticoulously planned PATH TO SUCESS which prolly doesn't involve getting benneh there lunched, maybe because Benneh is my main pusher alongside Insom, so if wolf cuth lunches v!Benneh, he loses cred and it makes it harder for them to push me. Instead if they flip v!me it'd be like "welp everyone wanted sk dead and his posts sucked anyway so can't blame me".

So I do not think "not voting benneh" is a lock for them being partnered. Because I think, talking about w!cuth, that him voting insom witouth really meaning to like he did EOD2 alongside me and visor is more partner-y than him not voting benneh, regardless of what he has to said about benneh. Like, If Cuth is a wolf, he neither wants benneh or insom dead, either because they are partners or bc he needs me them to misslunch me. And in that regards, I do not think there's that much of a difference between pretending to vote insom and not voting benneh, because they were never the lunches there.

If we're talkign v!cuth idk what he was thinking but I also don't know wtf he was thinking at eod1. That one he'll have to answer. But the easier answer is that it's easier for him to be wrong about me being a town, than it is to him being wrong about say benneh or insom.

[nebjiamn]

hmm

thats a frustrating post tbh lol

[SilverKeith]

now you're misrepping me (or now i'm realizing i worded it poorly)

my issue is not specifically that you asked why ender was pushed, its that ender was the only one from those in your poe you showed such care about

plus that, by stating you disagreed with why he was being pushed you're showing that you need something beyond just them being in your poe, and taht is 100% fine, but what was the progression and why were you pushing on insomnia at eod? why didn't you push harder on me or visor or at least look more into us?

THATS my point. your posts read like you cared about being right, not trying to figure out things or push them. 'dont kill cape' but didnt try very hard to save him. 'why ender?' an then disagree with the reasoning but not really try to diffuse the wagon. etc

I showed care about him bc it seemed like ppl were interested in voting him.

I pushed harder on insom than visor or you because Insom said something I didn't like and thought it was wolfy. I didn't receive such wolfpings for visor nor you.

I didn't care about being right I just happened to be . My poe there has at least 3 dead villagers and from your pov maybe 4 if you're town.
And even then I was only right on cape, because re:ender he just happened to claim and I had somewhat of a refusal to commiting to a solid ender read since he snowed me on our last game here.

I was never "defending" cape because I do not play like that. I'm not a pro-active player of the game unless the game really needs me to be one. Plus I had skimemd a decent part of the game and didn't really get why ppl were disliking cape other than "his posts are bad" which is something I never agreed on and I saw him in a spot I had seen other villas before (trying to solve regardless of the outcome).

I'm not saving cape there unless I was super confident on him being town. And seeing the opinion of other players who know cape best and had a better grasp at the game than me, saying cap was scummy, I obviously wasn't really confident on that read, so I said I was ok with his lunch.

If you're town you're just projecting what you'd do in my position I think. Because none of the things you had problems with say "wolf!sk" to me. Tho I'm obviously biased in that view lol.

[Achro]

My shit tier read on Achro is that he's V because he wouldn't catch himself saying stuff like "yeah I owned SK that time he wolfed in champs" and then proceed to missread me here at the start of the game.

Like, wolf achro's image of what town achro would do is obv read me correctly as a villager even if i'm just w/e'ing a wallpost. His missread of me is genuine imo. Or he faked it absurdly well but i've seen achro be deadass wrong and I've thought to myself "he can't fake being this wrong" and I was right.


https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/39274-Helltaker-Mafia?p=6797711#post6797711


I'm saving it until like D3 when I can actually push him maybe.

Honestly I want to see a flip before making my mind of him even if that's a bit cliche. I think he's playing as he'd do as a wolf, buuuut....

The fact that he's wrong about me makes me believe he's town. If he were mafia he wouldn't treat me like this. He isn't normally this sassy when he knows he's wrong as a wolf. He basically treated me with kid gloves in the game where he was a wolf. I'd only expect him to read me this badly if he's town.

Actually sort of the same logic applies to you. I'd actually expect wolf!y'all treatment of me to be more according to zereff bc he's just leaving me on town and not worrying about me.

Hm hm hm.

Hm hm hmmm.

I like Benneh better today than SK tbh. SK has gotten a bit word salady for me and the EOD reads I liked before not so much now.

The above two quotes feel very 'same picture' like, and I am quoting a wolf SK game.

If SK is town he has messed up here, because before I was thinking he was town but now I am forced to wonder if the team is SK/Cuth/? and Benneh just got caught in the cross hairs because his reads and way of playing confuse me.

Really I can always go back to 'fuck it we ball' and the person mafia chose to kill was dya, so if I just vote for them like a COWARD then I can't really be blamed.

idk

the whole me trying to press cuth hard, cuth saying to give time, and then sk excusing cuth going SUPER HARD on him last eod for reasons SK at the time thought were bad in thread to 'nah, cuth doesn't have to respond, I'll vote insomnia within an hour'... idk, just not prudent town play, and maybe we're just never winning if sk is town here because I hate the not giving katze/cuth time to dig into the day much. It's been mostly me and a little bit of benneh atp.

it just feels bad.

I have like 3 posts left so we'll see, but those are my thoughts. If the cross is sk/insomnia I don't know which way I'll go, but probably sk for the above message and how it potentially pocketed me + dya's last will + the forced vote not feeling good at all.

[insomnia]

I know you're saying "Ill reserve my points after he posts work" but that just sounds like "I'll see where he's wrong in his solve and drill into that for people to see".

You think my posts so far are bad... explain then. Tell me exactly why do you think are bad.

Because just saying my posts are bad is so... meaningless, empty, nonsensical. It doesn't mean anything at all I post like shit as both alignment and I can craft well made and reasonable posts and views as either alignment either. I won't say it isn't AI, because it is sometimes, but it seems like you're so focused on keeping up the narrative that you're just mindlessly repeating it.

Like, you talk about me but what you've done this eod that is definitely villagery? It seems to me like you are a wolf who already knows he has won because one of cuth/benneh/whoever is a villager who's never reconciliating with town!sk idea and never reevaluating.

This goes to Cuthillius nebjiamn too. Explain why I'm currently a wolf in your worldviews.

Also yeah Insom my secret vote was you but I'm interested in knowing why you thought that?

why would you be interested in that, lol

i've been your ~only resemblance of a push the entire time and your reasons sound fake to me. the analysis i made for winston works the exact same way for you in the way he was treating katze vs the way you treated me this game. maybe not the exact same because he cooled off on it while you had to be more upfront about it always



anyway, with these strings of posts, it is p apparent to me what sk wants to do today, so i can say some words



sk's posts are telling me he isn't really considering the game after dya's death

the reason i waited was because dya as a death when their only push was sk and from his pov it's a wrong push, it should ring serious alarm bells about him being wrong in his townreads imo, yet he has the exact same view and no signs of paranoia anywhere in his reads.

because dya dying there is pretty wild from his pov and the wolves just wanna wrap the game up if sk's a villa. how is dya ever a kill that a PoE would make? and why benneh and myself when dya was villa reading the both of us?

it feels to me like everyone had a semblance of paranoia, achro on katze and cuth, i did on winston, katze on achro too

funny enough, the person who has the most right to be paranoid has shown no signs of it today /shrug

[SilverKeith]

Uh huh.

Achro do you realize this is the exact thing I think wolf!you would be doing right?

I'm reading the last page where you theorize a team of Cuth/Benneh/Insom and say that "Not seeing a lot of evidence it's not the team I think it is". You also say that you want one of those three to be voted. You have basically no problem with me.

I come in declaring intention to vote Insom.

Then you're like "welp actually I like Benneh more than SK now because whatever" and start sprouting anti-sk language and suddenly you have a problem with me voting insom and say that if I cross insom you're like "well idk I'll prolly vote sk here or something".

I'm not sure if you're a wolf, but if you are, this is a textbook example of trying to install fear in me for reaching a decision. By casually claiming that you'd vote me in that cross, then I'm suddenly like "welp can't vote insom now I guess I'll vote with the vote Achro wants me to go". It doesn't work like that. Fuck thinking who tf would vote alongside me, I want to vote a wolf and that's that.

[Achro]

If there is one thing town achro is that wolf achro never is, it is whimsical.

Good luck with your decision.

[SilverKeith]

why would you be interested in that, lol

i've been your ~only resemblance of a push the entire time and your reasons sound fake to me. the analysis i made for winston works the exact same way for you in the way he was treating katze vs the way you treated me this game. maybe not the exact same because he cooled off on it while you had to be more upfront about it always



anyway, with these strings of posts, it is p apparent to me what sk wants to do today, so i can say some words



sk's posts are telling me he isn't really considering the game after dya's death

the reason i waited was because dya as a death when their only push was sk and from his pov it's a wrong push, it should ring serious alarm bells about him being wrong in his townreads imo, yet he has the exact same view and no signs of paranoia anywhere in his reads.

because dya dying there is pretty wild from his pov and the wolves just wanna wrap the game up if sk's a villa. how is dya ever a kill that a PoE would make? and why benneh and myself when dya was villa reading the both of us?

it feels to me like everyone had a semblance of paranoia, achro on katze and cuth, i did on winston, katze on achro too

funny enough, the person who has the most right to be paranoid has shown no signs of it today /shrug

So I didn't reach the conclussion you'd want me to reach therefore I'm a wolf I guess.

I don't see why dya dying changes that much for me. Dya was a town. I was hard townreading them.

The fact that they died while pushing me doesn't mean anything when half the game wanted me dead. Like, why would I read into the nightkill that much going into lylo? it's wifom. You could kill any sk voter and argue it's because sk is a wolf which is something that will obviously be in people's mind. It happened to be dya because dya was prolly never lunched here.

I don't see why I should reevaluate my townreads (aside from being in lylo and all that) so far if the game hasn't revolved around me. We lunched cape who I didn't want lunched. Then we lunched visor but that's like an entire can of beans in itself. In fact dya, who was my biggest townread, just died. What is evenyour point here.

Like I hate making this point but the nk is wifom.

I think the only thing that's worth considering here is dya's reads perhaps. So yeah I'm taking into account that maybe w!benneh doesn't kill dya, let's say. But idk who's the team and wtf do they want.

Sorry I don't think this is a good point. You could be a wolf who killed dya to explicitly push this point. Or push whatever point.

[katze]

go with god keith

fuck the haters

not fully caught up, distracted with an unexpected babysitting request, but if you're voting first it is ultimately your decision who it lands on

21 me thinks

[Cuthillius]

ok i'm here

[katze]

ok i'm here

no you're not

[SilverKeith]

I need a sanity check on Achro's turnaround from y'all

[katze]

I need a sanity check on Achro's turnaround from y'all

i typed out "for those watching at home asking yourselves if achro is going to get away with either bussing keith or saving benneh, the answer is yes" and then decided not to send it

23

[SilverKeith]

Honestly idk how to gauge in the paranoia argument. I'm half forced to gamble on my worldview being right because if two of (winston/achro/katze) are wolves then I kinda think it's just gg so I'm partially hoping it's only one and maybe it shows their hand here if they plan to win it here.

[katze]

i think if you look at those 3 specifically i could say there's some relatively strong unpairings between me and both of them, achro winston could work and i considered it a bit earlier cause of the "winston is claiming poisoner and is town!!!" thing when the poison landed on a PR claim and it wasn't reaalllllllly a claim was A Thing

(but it was definitely readable as a softclaim so i dont think its LOCK)

any thoughts on that?

24

[Cuthillius]

achro i don't want this to come across as dismissive since you wrote so many words and spent time building a Scenario

but i think it mostly comes down to how we play the game

i think basically the entire response to your question in short wrt benneh is that i haven't ever tried to kill him seriously because i haven't ever wanted to kill him seriously

and also as a corollary i haven't really seriously wanted to kill anyone except maybe like insomnia (at various points) and sk (as of like d2)

most of the time when i vote it's some combination of announcing that i suspect someone/testing the waters to see who agrees/seeing how people react to coming under fire/genuinely not knowing where to go because the game's an absolute mess (see yesterday)

the other thing is that i dropped the case on benneh/katze and then went and did other stuff for a while and came back and felt less strongly about it by the time i looked back over it the next morning

like legit benneh's reponse to my first push made me go back and read his posts again (i'd made the case after rereading all but the last like 30 minutes of eod1) and i felt a lot less strongly about it by that point

because there were things that stood out to me as feeling bad but in context of his progressions overall they weren't as bad as they'd seemed in my mind

and THEN there was eod

where i still think sk's posts were just garbage? i haven't reread them again but it felt like he was literally just taking an anti-town stance and then when i tried to engage with the reasoning (most notably with the visor claim) he just ignored it? wasn't even like i see what you mean but i disagree that it's that strong, just like no that makes no sense the claim means nothing

and benneh was sniping at me and pushing weirdly and that made me feel worse about him again but i still would never actually want to kill him over sk (again i will reread and flesh things out soon and maybe completely reevaluate who knows)

and then i just hated katze's eod, even before the visor snap at the end

and going into today i looked over benneh again and talked myself back into it esp given my feelings on katze but then katze claimed pr (which to be fair i think i maybe took more seriously than i should have specifically because it's katze but also it just seems good to take seriously i think idk i haven't had the bandwidth to worry about that too much though i will say it doesn't make things clearer to me that benneh immediately said he assumed it wasn't serious)

and then he responded again and i looked and now i actually think he's a villager again maybe tbh? but maybe not if sk is v? but i have a hard time seeing sk as ever being v here? so i'm like hmhh

and i really just need to reread and take things one slot at a time and sort stuff out

i think teambuilding is only helpful insofar as figuring out who can't be wolves together, but we'd be much better served here by just killing the person with the highest individual % of flipping w

and then doing the same thing tomorrow if it works

and so on

worldbuilding is fun but wolves know we're gonna be trying to fit pieces together and doing stuff to trick us into the wrong worlds

and all they need is one yeet here

so that's kinda where i'm at

oh the one other thing or maybe two i remember you bringing up that i wanted to mention

1) you were one of my top villagers d1 not because i thought you were super villagery-- in fact, in your post where you were talking about this you literally quoted my post from i think not that long before my readslist where i had you in the top tier saying that i thought you were fairly villagery, enough to never want to kill you today, but not lock; but like my reads were all over the place and i had really low confidence on any reads at that point in the game

2) kinda an extension of the above i was kinda worried about your slot as of eod yesterday before you posted more and bigger and stuff-- that was the point that actually solidified you as v in my head and before then i had been getting cold feet on you with the visor stuff

which might have contributed to me not engaging with you as much as would maybe have been good and helpful there wrt benneh sorry

[SilverKeith]

Another reason I think I'm mostly right in my worldview is because all my pushers have focused only on SK!Wolf and that's that.

But they haven't focused on teambuilding because that would imply dirtying their hands trying to argue in favor of Achro/Katze/Winston, which, ok, one of them could be a wolf, but trying to convince other people of that would get dirty. Or the alternative, pairing my with one of Cuth/Benneh/Insom, and (whoever is town there) discovering whoever is trying to pair me with them is full of bs, or just doing w/w theathrics.

So it's easier to say "SK WOLF" loudly.

Insom lylo so far has been
- Shade on Katze
- Shade on winston
- (No real exploration of either)
- some back and forth with some light reads
- thinking I'm a wolf.

Only comment I want to note is that he said that "if SK is town that might mean benneh/cuth wolves" which like. For a second. Insom, if you're town, and I'm town, that'd be the exact world we live in, and idk why then v!you would have such a hard time reconciliating that idea unless you were absolutely sure I'm a wolf, which you shouldn't be ever.

Benneh lylo so far:
- thinking i'm a wolf
-Some sus on insom sod (no exploration)
- some back and forth with some light reads (one with cuth where cuth accuses him of being w/w with me)
- some exploration on w!cuth

Both have also expressed they v!read achro. Benneh says that it's possible that's cuth/sk and one of winston katze which. Hm. Honestly I'd prolly have to see what Cuth has to say about this but it'll be pretty funny when he says to benneh that it's me/benneh or some shit while I'm just here, because apparently it doesn't really matter who I'm wolfing with only that I'm a wolf and thus must be lunched

Cuth e
- Also has achro as their top v! read which I'm not sure what it means currently. Maybe they're not focused on achro because he'll be a hard sell for a misslunch if he's v, but also because they don't want to get on his bad side and he isn't related to their gamble of losing or winning the game if they are wolves.
- Says it's possible I'm w/w with Benneh. I don't think this makes a lot of sense. Cuth has been suspecting both of us at some points so I'm unsure if his view is unrealistic even if it's wrong.
- there's a discussion on katze pr which I don't care about.
- All of them seem to argue that winston be a wolf and at this point I can prolly hear dvc being like "my dudes winston hasn't received heat the whole game and is in the exact spot of an unnoticed wolf" and yes I agree but no I don't know what the fuck to do about it and I was expecting my fellow townies to know but I don't know who my fellow townies are.
-thinkingt i'm a wolf.

Cuth has less content even tho I had more to say bc some of it are conclussions and I'm kinda expecting to see wtf he has to say re achro

[Cuthillius]

i was gonna keep posting but i need a brief nap first

katze what do you think of what benneh said wrt yesterday's wagons and sk's alignment

and of benneh's push on sk overall

and stuff

[SilverKeith]

i think if you look at those 3 specifically i could say there's some relatively strong unpairings between me and both of them, achro winston could work and i considered it a bit earlier cause of the "winston is claiming poisoner and is town!!!" thing when the poison landed on a PR claim and it wasn't reaalllllllly a claim was A Thing

(but it was definitely readable as a softclaim so i dont think its LOCK)

any thoughts on that?

24

This is like post 20.

I think you're unpaired with Achro. I don't agree that you're unpaired with Winston. I know he's pushing you but if that's not going anywhere then ehhh it doesn't mean a lot, or maybe it does but I don't think it's a lock unpairing.

I mean don't we just lose if it's that? Unless we hipotetically we get winston today maybe. But even then idk how tf ppl would reconcile both w!achro and v!sk. Unless the third is one of my pushers and I clear myself specifically here.

I'm not sure what to think about the claim and Achro's reaction. I saw it. I thought it was achro-like enough for not necesarily be AI. I should reread it, sure.

[Cuthillius]

sk one of my biggest issues with you yesterday was that it felt like you weren't even considering v!visor worlds at eod

could you talk more about how that situation played out for you and what progression you had on that read?

[SilverKeith]

where i still think sk's posts were just garbage? i haven't reread them again but it felt like he was literally just taking an anti-town stance and then when i tried to engage with the reasoning (most notably with the visor claim) he just ignored it? wasn't even like i see what you mean but i disagree that it's that strong, just like no that makes no sense the claim means nothing

I'm not sure why my stance was anti-town. I don't want to go into mech talk again (but will if you really want to).

Re:Visor, I did consider visor town, sort of, but for visor to be town he'd also have to /find me as town/ and then we'd have to consolidate on someone else. And then we did for a bit. On insom. And you were there. And I felt a bit sketchy on that. I think I was always voting Visor that eod unless we would've gone for insom or benneh but even then I think I was prolly voting visor over benneh.

I thought visor claim was bs to get himself out of the lunch for one day. In my head the following day there was only one death (mafia one), and no one would've died by a vig so we'd have lunched a villager (who would've very likely been me) to give w!visor another day after he claimed something that seemed a bit unlikely.

And if you wanna go into "why w!visor would claim he holstered" then idk. We've gone over this already and I don't think my points have essentially changed regardless if I fucked around arguing with you.

----------------------------

Another thing is that out of all three of my pushers, after exchanging some words with them, I think benneh's reasons resonated with me the most and Insom the less, having cuth sort of in the middle.

[katze]

i was gonna keep posting but i need a brief nap first

katze what do you think of what benneh said wrt yesterday's wagons and sk's alignment

and of benneh's push on sk overall

and stuff

wrt pr claim in ur rambly wall:im being vague because i dont want to talk about it and because ive played the role horribly, but you can probably guess what my role is if you think hard enuf it isnt that hard

wrt benneh: no thoughts head empty, unironically. theyre just words they didnt rly stick to me at all and i reread them and i still have no thoughts.


25ish

[Cuthillius]

nods

i wouldn't have poisoned ender there but i respect it

ik you're the backup vig it makes sense

[katze]

i mislunched visor so i could take a shat of my own and thats why dya died

the purrfect crime

26

[Cuthillius]

for the initial read it's mainly that i got town vibes from my iso yesterday

but more important now is this:



if achro is town, and sk is scum, then sk's buddies let him rand when they really didn't need to

i'm not gonna say lock town for this, but it's enough that i can't see myself chopping sk today

yo Winston

you said above this that you were thinking katze was likely w

you think that sk is >>rand v because you don't think wolves would let w!sk rand over visor there-- why do you think it's unlikely that wolves wouldn't all want to be on visor over sk there, especially given how close the votes were?

also, where's your read at on sk's slot overall? the first time you mentioned him was at eod1 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154878-13er-summer-game-thread?p=2053847569&viewfull=1#post2053847569) where you explicitly said that you didn't want to vote him, then next on d2 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154878-13er-summer-game-thread?p=2053848163&viewfull=1#post2053848163) when you said that you had had some light v ping from him but couldn't remember what, and then you read and said that his progression was believable (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154878-13er-summer-game-thread?p=2053848177&viewfull=1#post2053848177) so he's slight v, and that's basically it going into today where you're claiming he's a strong v read based on wagons (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154878-13er-summer-game-thread?p=2053848913&viewfull=1#post2053848913). what's your take on benneh's argument to the contrary? do you think they could be wolves together?

[Cuthillius]

sorry other winston

[insomnia]

thinking about it, he said that while katze, his only confident wolfread is literally voting to save sk in his world

matter of fact, katze had a terrible progression too

so it's kinda weird how he thinks that since fhpov the wolf was saving sk

[insomnia]

thinking about it, he said that while katze, his only confident wolfread is literally voting to save sk in his world

matter of fact, katze had a terrible progression too

so it's kinda weird how he thinks that since fhpov the wolf was saving sk
Winston Hughes

can you explain this? am i wrong etc

[insomnia]

idk, if sk is v then i guess the world is

cuth / benneh / winston

just thinking cuth is a villa though.

[Cuthillius]

idk, if sk is v then i guess the world is

cuth / benneh / winston

just thinking cuth is a villa though.

i've been reading sk's eod1 posts and if y'all are v/v we're insert expletive here imo

[insomnia]

ironically im getting worried he might be v due to winston's read on him and me feeling like winston is the wolf that skated

[Cuthillius]

also i just checked and literally everyone who ended the day on sk had him as a top wolf the entire phase

if he's w there's absolutely no shot there's not at least one other wolf on visor

[Cuthillius]

ironically im getting worried he might be v due to winston's read on him and me feeling like winston is the wolf that skated

really? do you think winston's interactions are too softball/nondistance-y for them to be partners? because it definitely feels plausible to me

[insomnia]

nah actually i was reading back and some of his latest posts are pretty elite if wolf

particularly him bluntly saying you drop for him while i rise despite me calling you a villager feels genuine to me for some reason, like he doesn't care about positioning at all

and then the "wait why are you voting so early" would be an elite level post to make if he's w and sk is v, since sk stated he was gonna vote me anyway, so that's wraps from him as a wolf, which they would've wanted here ldo

[insomnia]

hopefully tomorrow i’ll do isos on everyone and finally think critically once in this game

knowing me idk if it’ll happen but it’s my intention at least

[Cuthillius]

ok so i wanna talk about sk's read evolution on visor

sk talked about visor three times d1, 1) to say he didn't remember anything he'd said which he felt was a slight w lean, 2) to say he didn't want to go there d1, 3) to say that a post about achro was a bit villagery

then we get to d2, where sk votes visor because ladd's legacy reads were ender/sk/visor as top wolves, and i'm spoilering the following progression:




Ok sure

Vote:Visor


The Visor part is a bit w/e and I can't currently comment on it bc I don't have a grasp on visor this game, which prolly is a problem in itself and wolf!indicative towards visor.


I'm not sure if I actively think visor is a wolf after reading him a bit and I'm bothered bc I think we should realtime but idk if that's possible.

I think he's a bit lost this game like me just due to him being chill, I feel like we might have a similar spot and we voting each other and going for each other's head if we're both V is absolutely gamelosing but idk who are the wolves doing that or pushing that scenario.



One one hand I like that he recognizes that I'm a blindspot to him bc I feel similar towards him, but when I read this I seem to think "I've already decided what will I do/how I'll treat everyone else in the game" Like, he has that precooked frozen pizza you know which one.


Which leads me to this post because saying "these are my blindspots" implies he has some sort of level of confidence in the rest of his reads but then you get back to his reads and those are like.

- katze = katze
- insom kinda light liked
- benneh seems fine

which isn't the type of confidence he should have on a read that's supposedly not a blind spot. Like, any of katze/insom/benneh might be wolfing. I think he has meat on his achro read regardless of how much I agree with it but his townreads are a bit "w/e this guy's town".

I know this posts sounds kinda nitpicky and I'm not trying to be I just want to point out my Issue. At the same time if I de-attach this post from the other one I think this is kinda town visor in the sense that wolf visor is normally more objective oriented in his reads, and while his achro read might fall in that spectrum, the rest of his reads have like a more genuine "I guess" vibe to it.


"feel most strongly about the bottom bottom". You said I was a blindspot and the only person you talked about me with is Dya, who you went from wolfreading to townreading.

I don't follow. Dya explanation on why I was a wolf was partially wrong (me being around on eod is due to time constrains, can't play while at work), and lack of willingness to solve is prolly of related to me not being here for a big part of the game so not having a good grasp of it (while not being really that familiar with the playerlist)

I think dya is a town because their takes on me are wrong and have zero nuance to them. Like, very basic stuff. So I feel that both they are being honest about them and that if they were a wolf they'd prolly show more doubt/hesitation or try to give a more meaningful explanation on why I'm a wolf instead of a simple/direct one.

But you've played with me a bit more, so you going "I don't disagree with what you said" is kind of... weird?reductionist? because dya's point are technically true but I feel like it shouldn't be hard for you to see a bit farther and see that I could easily be a villager who has been in this same position often in his games.

Another thing to note is that my biggest indicator to you being a wolf that game is that the treatment you gave to me was like, sort of merciless, which kept me thinking after the game "v!visor would've known better, he wouldn't have done me that dirty", which is a similar feeling dya expressed towards you ("v!visor should already gotten to me being town")

Like, I'm sorry if you're v and I'm placing high expectations on you here I just think your overall logic towards my slot and potentially dya's doesn't track


I'll get home in like an hour which is conveniently eod

I'm caught up, re:visor I think he's a wolf but mechanically speaking I think there's merit in letting him live. That said if we let him live here y'all are prolly lunching me so I'm going to pretend I'm fully confident in visor being a wolf from now on

and like sure the reasoning is faintly plausible, but it just feels super made up

and this has been my biggest issue with sk all game, esp from when he randomly started hard pushing insom eod1

it feels like he picks reads to have and then comes up with reasons to have those reads

in the posts above wrt visor, it basically boils down to "you should read me as v but you're not" and idk the transition feels super jagged and unnatural

i can talk more about the eod1 stuff maybe, but i'm curious to hear other people's thoughts on this stretch of post

oh and also that last post saying "i think he's a wolf but mechanically speaking i think there's merit in letting them live"-- this was completely absent from how sk was playing eod, well before he/visor were the guaranteed wagons

and that was why i was getting mad at him, because it literally just felt like "i think he's a wolf and i don't really care about the mechanics"

iunno

i really really don't wanna be wrong here, but i can't get myself to see his play here as a villager

[Cuthillius]

i slept on it

maybe overstating my level of confidence there

[katze]

https://i.imgur.com/2fFp0AP.png


27

[Cuthillius]

will probs not be super active today for irl reasons that are non alignment indicative and i will probably get annoyed if someone were to imply otherwise so please dont
EnderWiggin you need to hardclaim your PR and results if applicable asap
insomnia im probably sheeping you today and killing you tonight if we ML today, glgl

bit of a random question kat but why the last line towards insom?

[Cuthillius]

insom can you talk about your read on winston through eod2?

[Cuthillius]

eh just read insom's posts

my main criticism funnily enough and the reason i've voted him a few times is kinda a similar reason to why i don't like sk's posts

just, like, a pretty different flavor

everything is just very even and controlled

maybe a good way of putting it is that insom feels like he's always in a position where he's punching down? with cape d1, righteous indignation over ender wagon, then response to sk and stuff

his reads have been fairly static? but like not in a super disagreeable way? i don't really have a bone to pick with his reads specifically, but it is all very clean and orderly

and that makes me a little scared

but i don't really see myself going there over sk ever

and end of day i still think he's probably v

[Cuthillius]

i skimmed over benneh again and i really don't know

numbers-wise and a how he carried himself towards eod yesterday he's probably a wolf? unless katze is but i'm gonna just roll with the pr claim for now and not think about it too much

idk

don't wanna get lost in the weeds

i think this game is pretty winnable if we sit down and don't get too caught up in trying to solve for all three wolves

and i think sk is the wolfiest person in the game by far, and if he's not then i have no clue what's going on in this game

except for maybe being snowed by benneh/katze+1 but if so mm i'm maybe okay with it

i'll probably look over some stuff a bit more tomorrow morning and confirm feelings on katze but i think i'm kinda set in terms of this phase at least

good night don't do anything silly

[nebjiamn]

i skimmed over benneh again and i really don't know

numbers-wise and a how he carried himself towards eod yesterday he's probably a wolf? unless katze is but i'm gonna just roll with the pr claim for now and not think about it too much

idk

don't wanna get lost in the weeds

i think this game is pretty winnable if we sit down and don't get too caught up in trying to solve for all three wolves

and i think sk is the wolfiest person in the game by far, and if he's not then i have no clue what's going on in this game

except for maybe being snowed by benneh/katze+1 but if so mm i'm maybe okay with it

i'll probably look over some stuff a bit more tomorrow morning and confirm feelings on katze but i think i'm kinda set in terms of this phase at least

good night don't do anything silly
?

3 characters

[Cuthillius]

dunno what you don't understand

seems pretty clear to me

[Winston Hughes]

Another reason I think I'm mostly right in my worldview is because all my pushers have focused only on SK!Wolf and that's that.

But they haven't focused on teambuilding because that would imply dirtying their hands trying to argue in favor of Achro/Katze/Winston, which, ok, one of them could be a wolf, but trying to convince other people of that would get dirty. Or the alternative, pairing my with one of Cuth/Benneh/Insom, and (whoever is town there) discovering whoever is trying to pair me with them is full of bs, or just doing w/w theathrics.

So it's easier to say "SK WOLF" loudly.

Insom lylo so far has been
- Shade on Katze
- Shade on winston
- (No real exploration of either)
- some back and forth with some light reads
- thinking I'm a wolf.

Only comment I want to note is that he said that "if SK is town that might mean benneh/cuth wolves" which like. For a second. Insom, if you're town, and I'm town, that'd be the exact world we live in, and idk why then v!you would have such a hard time reconciliating that idea unless you were absolutely sure I'm a wolf, which you shouldn't be ever.

Benneh lylo so far:
- thinking i'm a wolf
-Some sus on insom sod (no exploration)
- some back and forth with some light reads (one with cuth where cuth accuses him of being w/w with me)
- some exploration on w!cuth

Both have also expressed they v!read achro. Benneh says that it's possible that's cuth/sk and one of winston katze which. Hm. Honestly I'd prolly have to see what Cuth has to say about this but it'll be pretty funny when he says to benneh that it's me/benneh or some shit while I'm just here, because apparently it doesn't really matter who I'm wolfing with only that I'm a wolf and thus must be lunched

Cuth e
- Also has achro as their top v! read which I'm not sure what it means currently. Maybe they're not focused on achro because he'll be a hard sell for a misslunch if he's v, but also because they don't want to get on his bad side and he isn't related to their gamble of losing or winning the game if they are wolves.
- Says it's possible I'm w/w with Benneh. I don't think this makes a lot of sense. Cuth has been suspecting both of us at some points so I'm unsure if his view is unrealistic even if it's wrong.
- there's a discussion on katze pr which I don't care about.
- All of them seem to argue that winston be a wolf and at this point I can prolly hear dvc being like "my dudes winston hasn't received heat the whole game and is in the exact spot of an unnoticed wolf" and yes I agree but no I don't know what the fuck to do about it and I was expecting my fellow townies to know but I don't know who my fellow townies are.
-thinkingt i'm a wolf.

Cuth has less content even tho I had more to say bc some of it are conclussions and I'm kinda expecting to see wtf he has to say re achro

i think i might just be convinced by this

the three of them vibe like they know how they want the day to go and are working to close the angles and make it happen

the same is not true of achro or katze - the former is continuing to obsess over his own process, the latter feels like he's drifting in a way that, as town, would be something like resigned (as scum, it would be better characterised as either lazily overconfident or afraid of upsetting a winning position)

[Winston Hughes]

it also feels like the three of them are maintaining just enough distance between them without feeling like they're ever going to reach push one another into the firing line

[Winston Hughes]

i've been on katze's case throughout this game, but it's always been based on a meta read

and as the whole visor debacle proved, my meta reads are for shit

if i'm just setting aside everything except how things have played out today (which given how much of a shit show d1 and d2 were, seems wise), it really does look like benneh/cuth/insomnia are the scum running this game

[Winston Hughes]

it also feels like the three of them are maintaining just enough distance between them without feeling like they're ever going to reach push one another into the firing line

reach = really

[Winston Hughes]

you said above this that you were thinking katze was likely w

you think that sk is >>rand v because you don't think wolves would let w!sk rand over visor there-- why do you think it's unlikely that wolves wouldn't all want to be on visor over sk there, especially given how close the votes were?

that's exactly my point: if i take achro as town (and i'm quite prepared to lose the game rather than think he's played this way as scum), then there cannot be all of the wolves on that wagon


also, where's your read at on sk's slot overall? the first time you mentioned him was at eod1 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154878-13er-summer-game-thread?p=2053847569&viewfull=1#post2053847569) where you explicitly said that you didn't want to vote him, then next on d2 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154878-13er-summer-game-thread?p=2053848163&viewfull=1#post2053848163) when you said that you had had some light v ping from him but couldn't remember what, and then you read and said that his progression was believable (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154878-13er-summer-game-thread?p=2053848177&viewfull=1#post2053848177) so he's slight v, and that's basically it going into today where you're claiming he's a strong v read based on wagons (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/154878-13er-summer-game-thread?p=2053848913&viewfull=1#post2053848913). what's your take on benneh's argument to the contrary? do you think they could be wolves together?

i think if sk is scum, he's done a very good job of looking townie from my perspective

i am also pretty much entirely just ignoring all of the associative/positional shit that happened before today unless it's incredibly solid (like the actual shake-down of votes at eod yesterday) as i'm sure you can justify literally any set of reads off it at this point

as for benneh's argument, could you please spell it out in your own words as you understand it?

[Winston Hughes]

Winston Hughes

can you explain this? am i wrong etc

sorry, i don't understand what you're saying there

wasn't i saying that the wolves weren't saving sk (because he's not a buddy)?

[SilverKeith]

Just woke up.

I've let this marinate and I'm still at here. I won't really be around for the next 8 hours since I'm at work so I think it's better to vote here and relieve myself of pressure regardless of the outcome, don't really see myself not voting here. Sorry if I'm wrong and we lose here.

Vote:Insomnia

[SilverKeith]

(awaiting ppl to hammer or not hammer)

[Winston Hughes]

Just woke up.

I've let this marinate and I'm still at here. I won't really be around for the next 8 hours since I'm at work so I think it's better to vote here and relieve myself of pressure regardless of the outcome, don't really see myself not voting here. Sorry if I'm wrong and we lose here.

Vote:Insomnia

:bow:

i hope you're right

or scum

:sweatdrop:

[insomnia]

im a villa

thanks for not making me do the work if you’re v lol, but thinking you’re wolf anyway

[insomnia]

though i did wake up thinking there’s a real possibility you’re villa ngl

hopefully it’s the case so it’s wraps cuz i have no clue where to go next if you’re wolf


gonna come back later when muricans are up to see if game is over or nah

[insomnia]

insom can you talk about your read on winston through eod2?

im not sure anything pinged me in real time there. if anything i just noticed him being laidback a little but nothing concerning really

he has a really chill way about going about things that makes it seem he doesn't care to entertain how he looks, think that's happened yesterday too but don't make me point out the exact thing that went down cuz i forgot, lol. he has these almost derpy posts at times. maybe a bad comparison but he sometimes comes with posts that i'd imagine michelle doing when she's a villager, they give off that vibe of uninformed sorta righteousness


eh just read insom's posts

my main criticism funnily enough and the reason i've voted him a few times is kinda a similar reason to why i don't like sk's posts

just, like, a pretty different flavor

everything is just very even and controlled

maybe a good way of putting it is that insom feels like he's always in a position where he's punching down? with cape d1, righteous indignation over ender wagon, then response to sk and stuff

his reads have been fairly static? but like not in a super disagreeable way? i don't really have a bone to pick with his reads specifically, but it is all very clean and orderly

and that makes me a little scared

but i don't really see myself going there over sk ever

and end of day i still think he's probably v

this isn't a bad read, but it doesn't make me a wolf. nowadays im more calculated as a villa than wolf

but i wouldn't say i was positioning myself to "punch from above"

[Winston Hughes]

stop looking so townish, insomnia

it's making me edgy

:uhoh2:

[Winston Hughes]

as an exercise in testing my underlying feelings about insomnia vs sk, i decided to toss a coin: heads says i should vote insomnia, tails says i should vote sk

it came up tails

i felt like i wasn't happy with that, which means i should probably vote insomnia, but...

i thought I'd give it another go

tails

and again

tails

only on the seventh flip did it go heads

:sweatdrop:

[katze]

bit of a random question kat but why the last line towards insom?

seems obvious that i am applying pressure to some1 i am conflicted on lol

also sk vote is ack'd

[Achro]

I wrote several posts about how benneh/cuth/insomnia makes sense to me but now I am probably voting sk

My mind is a funny place tbh

[Winston Hughes]

so am i right in thinking that, unless the scum are extending this just for kicks, one of sk and insomnia must be scum?

[Winston Hughes]

i have a maximum of 2 hours remaining, btw

[Winston Hughes]

achro posting ~50000 words of analysis but ending up with his "mind in a funny place" on this 50/50 shot...

:laugh4:

[insomnia]

so am i right in thinking that, unless the scum are extending this just for kicks, one of sk and insomnia must be scum?

gotta wait on benneh / cuth

[Achro]

Winston Hughes

I think sk is the wolf in this part fwiw

So I am thinking back to something katze said. It's kind of a funny thought to me now in hindsight I guess. 'If I was a wolf u would want insomnia dead over cape'

I thought a lot about that while not posting last night. And sk and cuth are both on sk. Then I decided to think about the fact that dya for sure wanted sk dead and was probably never going to be chopped. So my weird theory about insomnia didn't really have to be true (all 3 killing sk)

Then I remember another thing katze said about how sk was probably the shrugyeet. I don't like these things just because I don't like sleep walking through days. I have lost a lot of games that way. Brings back bad memories. I think now katze had the right idea but just terrible marketing.

So right now in my head, and maybe I am just feeling funny, but I have sk/cuth as paired regardless of how the latter votes today hmm. Well if we get today right there's always more reading to do I suppose.

People always see me post big walls and think I am tunneled, but lately it's just a good way to get the thoughts out of my head so I can think clearer.

Something just really bothered me about sk who was going back and forth with cuth a lot eod yesterday but today when o presented a case sk didn't even want to wait for cuth to respond. Felt supremely icky.

I referenced my vote on boq for cuth/insomnia but the simpler explanation is cuth is just a wolf who woukd have thought it cool to kill insomnia. Maybe he really was afraid of benneh. Maybe he is town and this is all just okay style differences like he says.

I now know from reading past games of sk that he does the thing I town read him for at eod a lot as a wolf. So I probably should just stick to my initial dislike of that wall of his and see how people react to things from then.
Winston Hughes

Hiya. Yeah one of them. Atm I actually think it is sk who played well but your vote is of course your own. My reasoning is that every dead town member had sk low in their reads list and I didn't like how sk handled my cuth case. Additionally his opening wall thinking me and taffy were both wolfy felt fake (and I voted him for it) and the thing I tr'd him for at eod he does as a wolf a lot.

The people who die usually die for a reason. Ladd is ladd sure but the rest of his poe outside of sk has been a miss. Dya wanted to murder sk for awhile. Idk. At lylo I like to stretch my legs but ultimately listening to the people the mafia chose to murder is a good idea and the angle for wolf sk is clear to me.

[Winston Hughes]

that said, i'm so convinced i'll get it wrong that i'm playing wifom with myself

[Winston Hughes]

gotta wait on benneh / cuth

but there's only two of them, meaning at least one wolf would have to have posted since sk voted, right?

[Winston Hughes]

Winston Hughes

I think sk is the wolf in this part fwiw

So I am thinking back to something katze said. It's kind of a funny thought to me now in hindsight I guess. 'If I was a wolf u would want insomnia dead over cape'

I thought a lot about that while not posting last night. And sk and cuth are both on sk. Then I decided to think about the fact that dya for sure wanted sk dead and was probably never going to be chopped. So my weird theory about insomnia didn't really have to be true (all 3 killing sk)

Then I remember another thing katze said about how sk was probably the shrugyeet. I don't like these things just because I don't like sleep walking through days. I have lost a lot of games that way. Brings back bad memories. I think now katze had the right idea but just terrible marketing.

So right now in my head, and maybe I am just feeling funny, but I have sk/cuth as paired regardless of how the latter votes today hmm. Well if we get today right there's always more reading to do I suppose.

People always see me post big walls and think I am tunneled, but lately it's just a good way to get the thoughts out of my head so I can think clearer.

Something just really bothered me about sk who was going back and forth with cuth a lot eod yesterday but today when o presented a case sk didn't even want to wait for cuth to respond. Felt supremely icky.

I referenced my vote on boq for cuth/insomnia but the simpler explanation is cuth is just a wolf who woukd have thought it cool to kill insomnia. Maybe he really was afraid of benneh. Maybe he is town and this is all just okay style differences like he says.

I now know from reading past games of sk that he does the thing I town read him for at eod a lot as a wolf. So I probably should just stick to my initial dislike of that wall of his and see how people react to things from then.
Winston Hughes

Hiya. Yeah one of them. Atm I actually think it is sk who played well but your vote is of course your own. My reasoning is that every dead town member had sk low in their reads list and I didn't like how sk handled my cuth case. Additionally his opening wall thinking me and taffy were both wolfy felt fake (and I voted him for it) and the thing I tr'd him for at eod he does as a wolf a lot.

The people who die usually die for a reason. Ladd is ladd sure but the rest of his poe outside of sk has been a miss. Dya wanted to murder sk for awhile. Idk. At lylo I like to stretch my legs but ultimately listening to the people the mafia chose to murder is a good idea and the angle for wolf sk is clear to me.

okay, that makes sense

problem is, town has to vote together today, so my vote is not my own

[Achro]

Tbh if I was just basing it off lylo I would say the team of katze/sk/cuth who was waiting for you or me to misvote

Benneh has felt earnest
Insomnia has felt earnest
And you have felt earnest

Katze has done 0 solving. Kinda gross ngl
Sk has felt icky
Cuth has felt icky

But that's just lylo impressions for me atm. I could have it ass backwards lol. That's the curse of the uninformed as I call it.

[Cuthillius]

sup

I'm gonna go back to sleep now

[Cuthillius]

maybe

the point is more that I'm here i acknowledge vote

[Achro]

maybe

the point is more that I'm here i acknowledge vote

Shouldn't you be voting your top scum read since you know the game isn't ending? Vote sk. Like. Right now? Lol

[Cuthillius]

Shouldn't you be voting your top scum read since you know the game isn't ending? Vote sk. Like. Right now? Lol

no u

[insomnia]

oh right, it appears that my mathing isn't mathing :creep:


vote: Silverkeith

so if you ignore posts from each one of us, take an bird's eye view of the game.

ladd had a PoE of taffy / ender / cape, which all turned out to be wrong within the span of a phase. you can argue he could've pushed taffy but his reasons for thinking she was a wolf were thin imo and she was just villagery. in that case, the only thing he could do was to re-evaluate.

who did he drop from his very confident villa reads? sk. that is a prime target where people will look, especially when dya and benneh were pushing that angle.


then, dya dies last night. pretty self-explanatory, if the wolfteam is the PoE as SK likes to mention, then killing one of his strongest pushers just don't make sense, especially when they villa read both myself and benneh. that is why i called him out on not being paranoid about other slots, much like everyone has been doing because we all know deep down that we are getting fucked somewhere, SK doesn't feel that way.

this tunnel is pretty clearcut. i didn't have any agenda this game and most of the suspicion that comes on me, as per usual, is because i feel calculated or that im hiding something. but i urge you to read my posts and see where my agenda is. i have pushed visor yesterday and then swapped on sk for no reason if he's a villager, when i could've lunched the vigilante and hide myself among the people who voted him. everyone knows me as a powerwolf and that i don't back down once i set my agenda, for the people that don't have meta with me, they can ask benneh / katze (inb4 they're both wolves)

i never ever ever make all of those posts on visor and then swap to sk at the last second, especially when katze voted with me (granted i forgot if i had crossposted with him) when visor is a claimed powerrole and he was a top wagon. simple as that


another easy argument is that SK was simply flailing at that EoD, his logic made no sense whatsoever. benneh poked on it, as did I, as did visor. he was sweating cuz he was a wolf that was in danger.

feel free to ask me anything

[Winston Hughes]

okay, yeah, cuth's scum

i feel like maybe they've already won, though, and they're just waiting for benneh to show

[Achro]

okay, yeah, cuth's scum

i feel like maybe they've already won, though, and they're just waiting for benneh to show

Nah votes lock they would have said it

[Cuthillius]

okay, yeah, cuth's scum

i feel like maybe they've already won, though, and they're just waiting for benneh to show

no, I'm just woke up early and am pissy about achro's tone towards me

i want to wait until benneh's posted to confirm that they're not just waiting to hammer and then I'll look over everything again and probably end up voting sk

[insomnia]

the reasons for sk being a wolf are that he has set himself on a very weird read on dya that pertained to him thinking they wouldn't have pushed him, which is just a very odd read for a villager to make with the confidence that he was exuding

he mentioned he feels the most confident in reading them, even though he had the least experience with them.

his picking on me at the EoD was clear wolf agenda that spotted an easy lvl 0 wolfy post and ran it to the ground. achro said he defended cape or whatever, fmpov he did what ~most wolves would do in that situation, rock the waters in some other wagon that isn't gonna die so you have reason to push it tomorrow as well

i urge you to check his progression on me and see that it doesn't even build on anything. i called him out already when he stated "i didn't like insom's push on me" in the same phase were most of my posts were saying visor was a wolf for his claim and i never once said sk was a wolf or i said any reasons / made a case, i just put him in a PoE. that's a wolf /shrug

vote him #fordya cuz they're always right.

[katze]

no, I'm just woke up early and am pissy about achro's tone towards me

i want to wait until benneh's posted to confirm that they're not just waiting to hammer and then I'll look over everything again and probably end up voting sk

the games not over, im a wolf with one of sk/insom

(or can count the amount of people who've posted after the cross)

[katze]

my jokes will be the death of me but also it should be p clear that u dont need benneh to confirm its not over

i suppose i should actually be more transparent with my solving today tho, ur right achro

[Cuthillius]

i mean if it was v/v obviously wolves could have voted because it's lock but they often wait until everyone's there

i don't think it's v/v

i also don't want to be lectured about lylo mechanics right now by people who think I'm a wolf for some reason

[Winston Hughes]

the thing i hate most about this locked vote mechanic is that i can't stick my vote on katze right now

:soapbox:

[katze]

i mean if it was v/v obviously wolves could have voted because it's lock but they often wait until everyone's there

i don't think it's v/v

i also don't want to be lectured about lylo mechanics right now by people who think I'm a wolf for some reason

meh, id like to believe that in that world the wolves would have read the room and not slowrolled lol

if not then i will make an annoyed gesture towards them and then move on :P





my biggest concern with the game rn is that basically everyone wants to vote SK which means he's either a villager or being bussed and i was kinda assuming wolves would try to win today

[Cuthillius]

maybe they figured they already got away with killing visor over sk they don't wanna try their luck again so they'll bus this time

[Achro]

Will say the jokes got old fast tbh. Looking back if sk is scum you kind of tilted me off of him day 2 with your attitude towards the game and I found it really unenjoyable in combination with your really opaque view of me at times. Your lylo has been kind of grating. 6 hours before posts unlock and I know 0 of your thoughts and if you are town that is game losing tbh.

Idk cuth is mad over here for me thinking he is a wolf meanwhile I had two villagers tunneling me from the get because I admitted I would have trouble solving and expressing myself with such a prohibitive post cap. Like. From hour 1. Two different villagers just gunning for me and saying I was posting nonsense and not even reading my posts. But alright get pissy over being suspected that's cool I guess. I think you are a wolf because your votes make no sense to me. It doesn't mean that they make no sense. I just don't understand them.

Anyway see you guys in 6 hours.

[insomnia]

this tunnel is pretty clearcut. i didn't have any agenda this game and most of the suspicion that comes on me, as per usual, is because i feel calculated or that im hiding something. but i urge you to read my posts and see where my agenda is. i have pushed visor yesterday and then swapped on sk for no reason if he's a villager, when i could've lunched the vigilante and hide myself among the people who voted him. everyone knows me as a powerwolf and that i don't back down once i set my agenda, for the people that don't have meta with me, they can ask benneh / katze (inb4 they're both wolves)


this argument alone should be the nail in the coffin

im the epitome of powerwolfing, if i had an option between a vigilante and a mislunch that i was gonna get away with, if i were to pick the mislunch that i could've used later over the vigi, i must've been heavily intoxicated

that just ain't me. benneh / katze can confirm here

[Raskolnikov]

Vote tally:

Insom(1): SK
SK(1): insom.

:curtain:

[katze]

maybe they figured they already got away with killing visor over sk they don't wanna try their luck again so they'll bus this time

mayhaps


Will say the jokes got old fast tbh. Looking back if sk is scum you kind of tilted me off of him day 2 with your attitude towards the game and I found it really unenjoyable in combination with your really opaque view of me at times. Your lylo has been kind of grating. 6 hours before posts unlock and I know 0 of your thoughts and if you are town that is game losing tbh.

thats reasonable altho i don't really think it's super fair to put the blame on not wanting to kill SK on me. could seem fair from your perspective obv but imo "we're going to yeet SK, cya later" isnt like... invalidating the execution? dno, maybe my way of playing isnt for everyone, i read the room and figured SK was probs dying at eod and wasnt opposed to it because i had concerns with him too. i dont rly see the difference between saying that and thinking it but saying something like "haha guys sk is wolfy" but maybe you do? shrug




as for solving, my head has been toying with the idea of insomnia being my ride or die town since last night, which makes this crossvote (and peoples reactions to it) both really convenient for me and really confusing for me.

[Cuthillius]

as for solving, my head has been toying with the idea of insomnia being my ride or die town since last night, which makes this crossvote (and peoples reactions to it) both really convenient for me and really confusing for me.

talk more about this briefly?

[insomnia]

katze's posts today were horrid btw

from being somehow bewildered about dya dying to saying everyone was gonna vote SK when there was heavy talk of other people fmpov, such as benneh being a common denominator and all else

he's either consciously choosing to delude himself or he's just a wolf

i think winston's posts today were good if he's a wolf, i no longer wanna get him killed ~probably


it sucks i gotta think about whether katze is an actual PR after the stunts yesterday, but i think the claim only came to have a hindsight reason to explain his posts at yesterday EoD and giving an excuse for being on visor

and his read on me i just never really understood, think he was saying stuff about me or to me that he thought in his head were things he'd be doing as a villa, but nah

like him PoEing the game on d2 and with me being some missing puzzle piece to it felt very lolwtf

i also think he would've found much more ease getting to me as a villa in here and would've brought it up more often, especially when i was gaining traction. instead, he keeps quite about it and says it when it benefits him most, for example right now. if he thought SK was a villa this entire time and my only push was on him, how come he has me as a "ride or die" villa???

[nebjiamn]

morning

i see we have votes

[insomnia]

for the initial read it's mainly that i got town vibes from my iso yesterday

but more important now is this:



if achro is town, and sk is scum, then sk's buddies let him rand when they really didn't need to

i'm not gonna say lock town for this, but it's enough that i can't see myself chopping sk today

actually, let me re-cap this real quick

i saw you responding to me, but i don't understand still. you are saying wolves wouldn't let it rand, but fypov katze is literally at the end of the wagon. if it weren't for me switching my vote, the vote would've been 6-4 visor - sk with katze at the end of visor's wagon.

so i really need you to recap because it seems like a pretty big contradiction

[Winston Hughes]

morning

i see we have votes

you have less than an hour before i need to vote

right now i am seriously considering a coinflip

[Cuthillius]

i was going to say that also because when i asked about it winston was just like yeah exactly all of the wolves couldn't have been on visor therefore sk is a villager

which entirely missed the point of the question

but now i don't have to type it out again

thank you

[Winston Hughes]

actually, let me re-cap this real quick

i saw you responding to me, but i don't understand still. you are saying wolves wouldn't let it rand, but fypov katze is literally at the end of the wagon. if it weren't for me switching my vote, the vote would've been 6-4 visor - sk with katze at the end of visor's wagon.

so i really need you to recap because it seems like a pretty big contradiction

oh shit, how late did you switch...

ah

fuck

now i see what you mean

might just have won you the game (or kept you in it at least, if town)

[Cuthillius]

you have less than an hour before i need to vote

right now i am seriously considering a coinflip

thoughts on my post wrt sk's visor read and general patterns of play from last night? any actual reasons sk isn't a wolf other than that literally if he was w you think every single wolf would always be on visor?

[Winston Hughes]

thoughts on my post wrt sk's visor read and general patterns of play from last night? any actual reasons sk isn't a wolf other than that literally if he was w you think every single wolf would always be on visor?

nah, it's done

i don't have time for detailed shit now, i have to get ready

barring something major coming up, i'll be voting sk

and if that doesn't end the game outright, i'll probably get mislynched tomorrow to finish it

ffs i really do suck at towning these days

[nebjiamn]

nah, it's done

i don't have time for detailed shit now, i have to get ready

barring something major coming up, i'll be voting sk

and if that doesn't end the game outright, i'll probably get mislynched tomorrow to finish it

ffs i really do suck at towning these days
hmm

[nebjiamn]

oh i misread that nevermind

thought that was a slip

[katze]

talk more about this briefly?

i get the feeling putting it into words is goin to be difficult but lets see

i think both EoDs play out very differently if hes mafia. like he said if he's a wolf idk why he swaps to SK last second after doing nothing but discrediting the vig claim. yeah i know he discredited the vig claim so he could jump off FOR CRED but... what is it you say? probability? something like that. its rare you have the opportunity as a wolf to yeet a vig claim

and meh, i just think his posts today have been good. if hes a wolf then i think his posting is better than what i recall of his wolf game (been a bit since ive seen it tbf)


katze's posts today were horrid btw

from being somehow bewildered about dya dying to saying everyone was gonna vote SK when there was heavy talk of other people fmpov, such as benneh being a common denominator and all else

he's either consciously choosing to delude himself or he's just a wolf

i think winston's posts today were good if he's a wolf, i no longer wanna get him killed ~probably


it sucks i gotta think about whether katze is an actual PR after the stunts yesterday, but i think the claim only came to have a hindsight reason to explain his posts at yesterday EoD and giving an excuse for being on visor

and his read on me i just never really understood, think he was saying stuff about me or to me that he thought in his head were things he'd be doing as a villa, but nah

like him PoEing the game on d2 and with me being some missing puzzle piece to it felt very lolwtf

i also think he would've found much more ease getting to me as a villa in here and would've brought it up more often, especially when i was gaining traction. instead, he keeps quite about it and says it when it benefits him most, for example right now. if he thought SK was a villa this entire time and my only push was on him, how come he has me as a "ride or die" villa???

lol, my posts being horrid today is a towntell tyvm :curtain:

im a bodyguard, my vote on visor is extra horrible with that in mind, so quite the opposite! my vote makes even less sense! i didn't want to admit this because it's really stupid! still dont know why ur so hung up about a puzzle piece thing when it was p clear what i meant when i said it but whatever i dont rly care to argue about it anymore

and when did i say i thought SK was a villa lol

i currently do not think he is a villa

im too lazy to count so ill just spitbal this as 33

[nebjiamn]

im a bodyguard, my vote on visor is extra horrible with that in mind, so quite the opposite!

[katze]

thank you for the moral support benny

34

[Winston Hughes]

i have so little self-confidence in my reads that katze is my top town right now just because i spent so long sussing him

[Cuthillius]

i miss playing mountainous games

[Winston Hughes]

i miss playing mountainous games

hells yes

[insomnia]

a bodyguard not being on ladd?

looooooooooooooooooooool



anyway, i do admit im being a bit unfair to you and prickly in a chill game, but seriously, i feel like none of your solving posts have stuck to me in a way that it never happens when you're a villa. i don't have a single inkling of how you feel about people

can you explain your progression on sk throughout the game? iirc you said he was a wolf early d2 but you end up spending the day narrowing your focus on visor and never realizing you have the option of voting him. you felt like he was a villa there?

i think late votes on visor there are wolfy because SK voted him, which meant visor was ~never the poisoner. it's what made me swap in the end, in addition to him flailing hard in his logic late



idek what post im at

[SilverKeith]

I'm actually so glad I voted a wolf that I don't really care about the outcome of this. Get schooled for telling me my post sucked at least I'm right when it mattered

n retrospective I shouldn't have voted when I'm not really around to defend myself tho

I think we lose this anyways so do what you want I just voted insom cuz I think he's a wolf, wolf me never aims for v!insom in this spot knowing I'll always lose the cross.

Also insom perspective slipped in one of his posts where he said idk where to go next if you're wolf when he obviously would die overnight if I were a wolf and were to be lunched today. There's no next for him he'd be cleared and get to go to dvc heaven

[Cuthillius]

I'm the wolf bodyguard

[katze]

a bodyguard not being on ladd?

looooooooooooooooooooool



anyway, i do admit im being a bit unfair to you and prickly in a chill game, but seriously, i feel like none of your solving posts have stuck to me in a way that it never happens when you're a villa. i don't have a single inkling of how you feel about people

can you explain your progression on sk throughout the game? iirc you said he was a wolf early d2 but you end up spending the day narrowing your focus on visor and never realizing you have the option of voting him. you felt like he was a villa there?

i think late votes on visor there are wolfy because SK voted him, which meant visor was ~never the poisoner. it's what made me swap in the end, in addition to him flailing hard in his logic late



idek what post im at

"surely the wolves will target the claimed PR who everyone thought was obviously real over the ladd who was wrong D1 and tunneled by the D1 mislunch" - me

"wow i suck at this game" - also me

and idk i feel like ur not reading my posts then. i thought SK showed up d1 with an ok post, then they did nothing and came back at eod and had a pretty rough eod and i wanted to kill them sod2 and then visorgate happened and i was so convinced the vig claim was fake i voted it out. plus at eod2 i thought SKs posting was decent in the moment and i thought achro was towntelling hard and he was confident SK was villa so whatever lets just kill visor

and now we're here and nobody townreads SK and... i don't know if i can either? the game feels wrong if i slot him as a villager. well, it felt wrong. i am admittedly becoming more and more CONCERNED with that given... everybody thinks he's a wolf. hell even achro who was his biggest defender earlier it felt like wants to kill him over you now. it all feels sudden. and i still think SK has some good posts.

i guess when i write it out like that i should probably be less confident on you but it is what it is, i kind of feel like people are gonna vote SK today before i do and if the game doesnt end i can figure that out then? this is surely a good mentality that will not backfire on me

also apparently my guess of 33 earlier was spot on which is funny to exactly me and nobody else! go me

35

[insomnia]

I'm actually so glad I voted a wolf that I don't really care about the outcome of this. Get schooled for telling me my post sucked at least I'm right when it mattered

n retrospective I shouldn't have voted when I'm not really around to defend myself tho

I think we lose this anyways so do what you want I just voted insom cuz I think he's a wolf, wolf me never aims for v!insom in this spot knowing I'll always lose the cross.

Also insom perspective slipped in one of his posts where he said idk where to go next if you're wolf when he obviously would die overnight if I were a wolf and were to be lunched today. There's no next for him he'd be cleared and get to go to dvc heaven

i think me saying your posts sucked must've gotten you a bit mad HUH

and i hope you know by suck i mean wolfy btw, i know it can be easily taken as the wrong thing but it just sounds more fun to me to use variations like horrid / suck to express the wolfiness of a thing. i don't say suck as in it sucks like it's a bad post (or it is bad, but in a wolfy way), you're all great players ldo

[insomnia]

i feel honored to know you voted me knowing you would've lost. it means we aren't doing as bad as it seems

p69

[Cuthillius]

vote: silverkeith

wahoo

[katze]

you're all great players ldo

lets not go too far

that katze player stinks

36

[nebjiamn]

vote: silverkeith

wahoo
i think you misspelled 'ahwooooooooooooooooooo'

[SilverKeith]

vote: silverkeith

wahoo

Well yeah no surprises so far.

Benneh you're joining in on this too?

[SilverKeith]

vote: silverkeith

wahoo

Well yeah no surprises so far.

Benneh you're joining in on this too?

[katze]

vote: silverkeith

wahoo

Well yeah no surprises so far.

Benneh you're joining in on this too?




:curtain:


vote is ack'd if you cant tell

im kinda assuming bennehs post isnt a "gg u lost" given it isnt expressly saying so




SilverKeith so fypov insomnia and cuth are both wolves, whos the third? can u sell me on those two being wolves? ik thats a bit hard since you KNOW they are (or have to pretend ldo) but ykno. you know the answer so help me get there

36

[SilverKeith]

Well yeah no surprises so far.

Benneh you're joining in on this too?




:curtain:


vote is ack'd if you cant tell

im kinda assuming bennehs post isnt a "gg u lost" given it isnt expressly saying so




SilverKeith so fypov insomnia and cuth are both wolves, whos the third? can u sell me on those two being wolves? ik thats a bit hard since you KNOW they are (or have to pretend ldo) but ykno. you know the answer so help me get there

36

Yes but I'm on my lunch break.

I don't think it's you. I don't think it's Winston. Is either Benneh and Achro was right on his original 3 or Achro is the third and he's schmoving

I'm not sure how much I can sell you on those two being wolves but my main point is that cuth vote at insom at eod2 was ??? Cuth votes insom for distancing there but never had any intention or real desire to evaluate or lunch insom. Insom has just been very narrow in his play somehow while not really having to talk too in depth about cuth. I think all of these things are things benneh hasn't done so I'm inclined to believe he's v and wrong over achro currently

[nebjiamn]

gg u lost



my vote is on sk in spirit but im busy prepping for interview so ill let others have the glory (or shame, depending)