Representative Democracy [Concluded]

[Visor]

Last game I null-tinfoiled on him til I died.
Might be easier if I link you to games?

Eh sure.

Do you think he can emulate his paranoia/suspicion as scum?

The only scum game I played with him he barely posted. I should go reread that actually.

[Cass_]

He's getting better at emulating, according to the word around DM Skype chat.

According to the DB, I actually did play with him scum-him a bit ago. I basically remember nothing from this game.
He et the dust from SK N2.
Dice Scum ISO Disney (http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/index.php?app=core&module=search&do=search&andor_type=&sid=47841b9b8626a4ab3014a5b4758daf09&search_author=Dicetosser1&search_app_filters[forums][sortKey]=date&cType=topic&cId=98567&search_content=both&search_app_filters[forums][noPreview]=1&search_app_filters[forums][pCount]=&search_app_filters[forums][pViews]=&search_app_filters[forums][sortKey]=date&search_app_filters[forums][sortDir]=0&search_app_filters[forums][searchInKey]=&search_term=&search_app=forums&search_app_filters[forums][searchInKey]=&search_app_filters[forums][sortKey]=date&search_app_filters[forums][sortDir]=1)


Most recent game we completed.
Dice Town, Hackers (http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/index.php?app=core&module=search&do=search&andor_type=&sid=2682099cd84c0945b61bd5666ffceb77&search_author=Dicetosser1&search_app_filters[forums][sortKey]=date&cType=topic&cId=99725&search_content=both&search_app_filters[forums][noPreview]=1&search_app_filters[forums][pCount]=&search_app_filters[forums][pViews]=&search_app_filters[forums][sortKey]=date&search_app_filters[forums][sortDir]=0&search_app_filters[forums][searchInKey]=&search_term=&search_app=forums&search_app_filters[forums][searchInKey]=&search_app_filters[forums][sortKey]=date&search_app_filters[forums][sortDir]=1)


Link to all his DM games, ever (http://www.dmwwdb.net/players.php?p=170)

[Visor]

Let's roll the Dice.

I want people to talk about him.

Vote: Dicetosser

[Cass_]

not necessarily. Revealing it D1 is a bit out there but not that much but scum?? ideally they wouldn't want it outted if possible. keeping it secret can cause mislynches as town scrambles to figure out who caused the weirdness.
?overexplainy


I don't like these posts tonally. ive seen sooh get a bit emo about not being listened to and being mislynched but it didn't sound like this.
it makes me nervous.

But she IS claiming town PR peeps need to get off her. And yes I know shes been vague. im hoping D2 we find out what she is
Null on this.
Agreed 100% with the first bit, so could be genuine read, not sure about the extra explanation. From what I've seen TownDice doesn't push/vote claimed PRs.


wheels turning means I can see you thinking. youre aussie enuff to know that maroon. the bote? I think ure the best choice. ive got u at 60-65% town but if you think im trusting MY ability to read you correctly ure nuts. Part of the advantage to making you the boss is I get to watch you make ure choices, I suggest you make sure you do it ITT.

I still don't get him voting me blue early, but could give benefit of the doubt that voting me fits in the context of not really knowing anyone else.



COP and DOC is same answer Sooh. If sooh is cop then cop you. id rather get u two straight early so I then have people I can work with

vig hankerchief

Ok for Cop on me, that's consistent with previous games. Idk wrt Sooh. dicetosser1, don't you read Sooh well? Why Cop her




meh i disagree with the case on sooh

i think it's bad

i think she's always utr


ummm what??? UTR sooh means scum sooh. How much have you played with her?
Disagree with UTR meaning scum Sooh, but note that he suggests confidence in reading her, when he would've copped her above.



chokes. exweese me? This is cass your talking about? She of the massive WOT? She of constant verbal diarrhoea about her paranoia? She who does this as scum which she has randed on DM 50% of the time? THAT cass??

cass do you play differently here?

dicetosser1 - you didn't follow this up? What happened to the paranoia from this quote?

Also, IIRC Zack's assessment of me was fair for the game we scummed together.
Zack - you say games, plural? Was there another besides Tempus Fugit?




Zack confirmed not reading the thread.
Why?


Then the stuff he pushes Monty/Barto for


[QUOTE=dicetosser1;2053730487]Are either of you named montmorency? No? Then how about you let people answer for themselves in future.

See this quote just above? thats the SECOND time your pushing for them to be HARD CLEARED. Your pushing it hard. So dont give me that come off it bs. Im pages behind how many more times am i going to find you pushing this as i catch up?

Also they are NOT clear any of them could have been bussing a partner for cred or have you never heard of that being done? They may be MORE LIKELY to be town but that is not CLEAR. get it?


red wanna bet?? I was part of a 4 man scum team and my teammate Zander bussed the living hell out of our other teammate lenlo. D1`. Like EXTREME bussing. Dont EVER say never.

and how can you POSSIBLY have them at 99.9%? seriously. They are either 100 % cause of clearing night actions or they are at best like 75%? The only people who can claim that level of confidence on a bunch of people is a) the cop who cleared them b) someone who REALLY knows how to read them like 100 % of the time or c) scum. Are you a or B?

And dont think i didnt notice you trying to squirrel away from this convo with that whole Im not covering this again thing. I will just keep bringing it up and pounding away at you.

Im leaning town. There are differences between his scum game and town game but for me they are mainly tone and behaviour things.


Vote El Barto


LOL so no reason just blatant OMGUS without even arguing?? Cmon town we have scum here.



link me so we can correct the knuckleheads.

dont quite get what ure meaning here

if ure Tak then apparently I have ages ago. But heres the thing. Ive seen someone claim a scum role with their first post. It took me 4 days to get that SOB lynched but I was right. Since then my policy is simple. You claim scum i vote you. If you can convince me ure town fine but until you do that im not going to just take you at ure word. Thats just asking to let myself get sucked in.


Pushes stuff I could see him pushing as either alignment. Know he definitely has an issue with players claiming Scum.

TLDR impression, Not sure if his tone here is genuine/deliberately overdone. Will watch this space.
Monstrbro - thoughts on Dice?

[Cass_]

Let's roll the Dice.

I want people to talk about him.

Vote: Dicetosser

Did you read the other games?
Thoughts?

And please answer these:



Who are your top scum at this point Visor? What do you make of Cuth's ISOs this phase? Does he ever make that sort of effort as a Wolf?

Zack, being around for start of the day and a push on me/Cuth/Barto, with a change in style after he was up for lynch, but not having added anything since?

Anyone else?



I don't really know at the moment, I was planning on setting an alarm for 4am and doing some ISOs then.


Why do you need to ISO to answer the Cuth/Zack questions?

You were ITT when Cuth posted his run of ISOs
Zack hasn't contributed much since

Where's your head at wrt them?

Why Dice over Cuth/Barto today?

[Visor]

Did you read the other games?
Thoughts?

And please answer these:





Why do you need to ISO to answer the Cuth/Zack questions?

You were ITT when Cuth posted his run of ISOs
Zack hasn't contributed much since

Where's your head at wrt them?

Why Dice over Cuth/Barto today?

Cass, do you think I'm town?

If yes, your questions are mostly fruitless.

(and I answered them anyway iirc).

I'm just giving dice as an option. I want people to talk about him because NOBODY is talking about him.

[Visor]

Did you read the other games?
Thoughts?

And please answer these:





Why do you need to ISO to answer the Cuth/Zack questions?

You were ITT when Cuth posted his run of ISOs
Zack hasn't contributed much since

Where's your head at wrt them?

Why Dice over Cuth/Barto today?

to be clear, i've said I do't know, I don't care for his ISOs, and he could.

Zack has kept sliding downhill, but no real thoughts, haven't focused on him.

Not a fan of Schema or Dice atm, feel like both a getting ignored

also worried that Cuth is town and Zack scum is helping me railroad him

[Riedquat]

No, look at it this way: the bottom-half of the list is scum, scum lean, and tak dealy. So if Cuth is literally "scum scum" and not sarcastically or flippantly, then putting him at the top among relative townleans should say something. Since whether consciously or not, the list does retain a town-scum spectral quality.

Beyond that, if jabbz &dice are equal nothings they might be together, just as "possi-town" al sips & Renata are together. Then that latter raises the question of why Al Sipsclar should be read in anywhere near the same territory or on similar terms as Renata. Since he didn't provide further notes on it.

#codedlanguage

Mmmwew... in my view, 25% probability you have something and 75% you should check the gas leak again... ;)

[BSmith]

I'm about 10 pages behind and unlikely to catch up before the end of day.

vote: atheotes

vote: cuth

We can take care of Barto next.

[BSmith]

Or is there another consensus target that would benefit being removed from the game?

[Montmorency]

I think Dicetosser is a wolf, thoughts?

:shrug:


but you're running on the premise that we, as a game, only analyse the votes put in by District Reps, and that those decisions be made independently of who's in their district?

Not at all. I'm just speaking to the specific merits of district sorting and leadership.


I reconsidered members voting the same as their rep for now, too hard to coordinate and scum can probably hide there just as easily. I still think reps should vote to represent the majority of votes in their district - yes or no to this?

Sure, I affirmed.


We need information on everyone. The justification for grouping the lower tiered players was to make them accountable for their own actions. The idea was/is that the game's vote for lynch actually belongs to the majority of players (the majority of players in the game being Town), and not just those elected to represent the district.

Maybe without the majority-vote representation you would have a better case for concentrating the class. Spreading them out in a regime where Reps vote as delegates of majorities achieves just the accountability you design, and avoids having a stagnant district where players don't have impetus to engage within-district. If we have to redistrict for tomorrow, please consider trying a different arrangement.


WRT Bold - you weren't in Snake Cult unless you were using a different name? And Barto was a NK, not a lynch???

:daisy: me, sorry. I had it conflated with KIngslayer. Forget whatever I may have said wrt Snake Cult.

[Montmorency]

to be clear, i've said I do't know, I don't care for his ISOs, and he could.

Zack has kept sliding downhill, but no real thoughts, haven't focused on him.

Not a fan of Schema or Dice atm, feel like both a getting ignored

also worried that Cuth is town and Zack scum is helping me railroad him

For now it should be enough to point out that dice isn't as pure as the consensus seems to suggest. Reckless confrontation in a couple posts per day isn't as reckless as it seems.

[atheotes]

I'm about 10 pages behind and unlikely to catch up before the end of day.

vote: atheotes

vote: cuth

We can take care of Barto next.

Do you have any other reads besides these 2.
Please post your reads list.

[Renata]

I think Dicetosser is a wolf, thoughts?

Disagree.

[Renata]

to be clear, i've said I do't know, I don't care for his ISOs, and he could.

Zack has kept sliding downhill, but no real thoughts, haven't focused on him.

Not a fan of Schema or Dice atm, feel like both a getting ignored

also worried that Cuth is town and Zack scum is helping me railroad him

Can't say I haven't had that thought. Cuth is back on the scum side of 'fuck if I know' for me at the moment, though, heck if I can remember why.

[Renata]

Something I haven't seen brought up: I think Jabbz' idea that mafia framed Zack by killing Dp is exactly backwards and would consider it w/w equity if not for their day one fight. As it is, it only brings Jabbz down a notch or so in my estimation.

[Cass_]

to be clear, i've said I do't know, I don't care for his ISOs, and he could.

Zack has kept sliding downhill, but no real thoughts, haven't focused on him.

Not a fan of Schema or Dice atm, feel like both a getting ignored

also worried that Cuth is town and Zack scum is helping me railroad him


Cass, do you think I'm town?

If yes, your questions are mostly fruitless.

(and I answered them anyway iirc).

I'm just giving dice as an option. I want people to talk about him because NOBODY is talking about him.

My Town lean on you is YOLO tbh with pockets of paranoia/need more info, so from what I recall.. I think you're entry was Townish but your reactions with Cuth early on seemed OTT in places, and a couple of tonal things, and the 'time to lolcats' etc earlier this day made me pause. I thought Zack was initially hedgy/leading you on wrt Cuth but if both of those flip Town you'll slide down.



I think I'm going around in circles. I might take the rest of the phase off.

GL winston, I think Cuth and two of GH/Barto/BSmith

should be decent enough for now.

Talk to me about BSmith?

[BSmith]

Do you have any other reads besides these 2.
Please post your reads list.

My reads are pretty much the same as what I posted the other day. I don't have a full list all worked out, nor will I as I don't have the time and am mainly on mobile. I'll be at work Thursday/Friday this week amd should have some keyboard time then.

Outside of cuth or barto, who would you eliminate if you had the opportunity?

[Cuthillius]

You haven't even interacted with me lol.

and therefore his conclusion is incorrect?

no, and this is misrepresentation

[Cass_]

My reads are pretty much the same as what I posted the other day. I don't have a full list all worked out, nor will I as I don't have the time and am mainly on mobile. I'll be at work Thursday/Friday this week amd should have some keyboard time then.

Outside of cuth or barto, who would you eliminate if you had the opportunity?

Same question to you?

Get that mobile sucks, but what do you make of Csargo/Fenn /Schema ?

[atheotes]

I think Dicetosser is a wolf, thoughts?

I dont like Dice's reads list.
I find it odd that "Cuth - probably town" is higher than Renata, while Zack has a special place below them.
Also, Visor as tinfoil is grouped under scum with 2 others.
it looks scummy. He could be a wolf. Probably better to resolve Cuth tonight.

[Cuthillius]

How is a post that votes you, sheeping points made by other players, very hard for you to find any sort of scum alignment in, if you're Town?

Again, throughout the game BSmith's posts do not read like he has an agenda; needs/wants to get anything done

Given half the game is voting for me and several others have in the past, i'm not taking that as much of a problem, particularly given my perspective thereon would likely be unideal

but meh

if he's a wolf he's a very sheepy and consistent and slanky wolf

[Cuthillius]

I dont like Dice's reads list.
I find it odd that "Cuth - probably town" is higher than Renata, while Zack has a special place below them.
Also, Visor as tinfoil is grouped under scum with 2 others.
it looks scummy. He could be a wolf. Probably better to resolve Cuth tonight.

eww

like these are awful reasons to come to the conclusion that he is a wolf

i reaaally hate this post

[Cass_]

I dont like Dice's reads list.
I find it odd that "Cuth - probably town" is higher than Renata, while Zack has a special place below them.
Also, Visor as tinfoil is grouped under scum with 2 others.
it looks scummy. He could be a wolf. Probably better to resolve Cuth tonight.

Do you have a list of your own reads?

Didn't you say you might be willing to put Dice as rep for his vote on Monty?

[Cuthillius]

Yes I'm sure he could make that effort as a wolf.

i just want to point out that we're not talking about ability

technically i am able to do many things

it is just that, across every single game i've played, ever

i cannot make myself do more work than necessary

and while there have been scum games where i've iso'd or looked at, like, 4-5 players

those are both rare and i couldn't be bothered to read all the posts

[Cuthillius]

eww

like these are awful reasons to come to the conclusion that he is a wolf

i reaaally hate this post

elaborations:

you disagree with him, seriously

therefore scum, basically

since he has different reads, that looks scummy, so we should go along with the mislynch as planned

cool beans

[Cuthillius]

anyway cass

you asked for the ISO's

i assume you read them

i hope you appreciate them

i think you like cake

and cake is good

therefore

something something

idk i need more sleep

[Jabbz]

Something I haven't seen brought up: I think Jabbz' idea that mafia framed Zack by killing Dp is exactly backwards and would consider it w/w equity if not for their day one fight. As it is, it only brings Jabbz down a notch or so in my estimation.

I don't view it so much as mafia framing Zack, as mafia choosing their kill by which will cause the most havoc among the remaining town. Zack had already irritated a number of people at that point, so anything that painted him negatively would possibly provide the extra push necessary for a mislynch.

[atheotes]

My reads are pretty much the same as what I posted the other day. I don't have a full list all worked out, nor will I as I don't have the time and am mainly on mobile. I'll be at work Thursday/Friday this week amd should have some keyboard time then.

Outside of cuth or barto, who would you eliminate if you had the opportunity?

ok. Hopefully we can see more from you next day phase.
I just added Dice to the POE. Fenn, yourself. Monty is also somewhere there. Al sips has trended up a little.
Will have to read Schema tomorrow.
Not going to tinfoil territory yet.

[atheotes]

Do you have a list of your own reads?

Didn't you say you might be willing to put Dice as rep for his vote on Monty?

I dont have it compiled. a little jaded to put it together now. Will try to do it before EOD. But I expect to be here tomorrow. so lacking the energy to do it right away.

Nope. I said i might be willing to vote him as rep based on his reads list.

[atheotes]

elaborations:

you disagree with him, seriously

therefore scum, basically

since he has different reads, that looks scummy, so we should go along with the mislynch as planned

cool beans

If thats how you read it....sure.
Vote: atheotes
Vote: Cuthillius

[Winston Hughes]

Very little time; should be much better tomorrow.

Zack remains my strongest scum read at this point. Maybe I'm just stuck in a tunnel, but he just looks really bad to me again today, esp. his early focus on the Cass-as-scum theory.

Jabbz is now giving Zack solid townreads, though, to the point where it seems there's no chance he'll support me while I'm aiming that way.

Knowing I won't be around for eod, I feel like I don't really have any choice but to put the decision in Jabbz's hands.

Vote: Jabbz

Vote: Zack

[Cass_]

Vote: Visor
Vote: El Barto

Likely, not going to be around EOD.

Not lynching:
Cass_
Renata
atheotes
Winston Hughes
Visor

No idea:
Jabbz
dicetosser1
Fenn
Schema
Riedquat
Monstrbro

Ok to lynch:
Cuthillius
BSmith
Zack
Montmorency
El Barto


Why the change from Monty to Barto?;
Can you explain the progression on Schema/why she's dropped down?


Schema looks okay on re-read. I'm moving her to my Zack/Monstr/WH group.

Backed off from Renata
Monstr interaction seems good
Visor interaction is ok, love the fluorine reference.
Noted Monty's Visor engagement
Cleared Sooh, Renata, Monstr
Scum leans on Visor for her reaction testing and Cuth push
Mentioned choxorn in passing.
Null on atheotes
votes GH


Vote: Monty

[Cass_]

I dont like Dice's reads list.
I find it odd that "Cuth - probably town" is higher than Renata, while Zack has a special place below them.
Also, Visor as tinfoil is grouped under scum with 2 others.
it looks scummy. He could be a wolf. Probably better to resolve Cuth tonight.


I dont have it compiled. a little jaded to put it together now. Will try to do it before EOD. But I expect to be here tomorrow. so lacking the energy to do it right away.

Nope. I said i might be willing to vote him as rep based on his reads list.

*Gives chocolate for energy and answers*

? Bold seems contradictory

[BSmith]

Same question to you?

Get that mobile sucks, but what do you make of Csargo/Fenn /Schema ?

I dont need to answer that question for myself. :clown:

As for Fenn and Schema... I dont have a lean either way to be honest. Fenn seems much more active than Csargo, but otherwise their posts have gotten lost in all the noise for me.

Anyone able to do a tally for me? I have no sense of how the lynch is stacking up and who the alternatives/runners up might be.

[Cass_]

Something I haven't seen brought up: I think Jabbz' idea that mafia framed Zack by killing Dp is exactly backwards and would consider it w/w equity if not for their day one fight. As it is, it only brings Jabbz down a notch or so in my estimation.
Renata

Where are you at with Zack?

His entrance today is better for me tone/attitude-wise, but then mismatch with Barto/Cuth reads/votes and the disappearance is ??

Also, are you going to be here until/at EoD?

[Monstrdude]

Dice could be a wolf Cass_ but i have limited experience with him and read him the way you do and I've been thinking villager

[Montmorency]

*Gives chocolate for energy and answers*

? Bold seems contradictory

He suggested it before dice had posted his list.

[Monstrdude]

Al Sipsclar

What about my posts makes you have "no idea" about my alignment and why?

[Cass_]

If I was playing D1 I would have pushed Sooh too, at least until the PR claim (and IIRC Schema backed off at that point). APart from that I thought Schema did pretty well explaining her reasoning for her reads. And of course I'd like to be the rep, but I don't forsee getting elected. SOmebody has to vote for another person.

Top lynch choice right now is Cuthillius. El Barto maybe, but I think he can wait for later and he is less suspicious if Cuth is a wolf. I still haven't gotten around to doing the D2 reread like I was planning, need to ISO Riedquat and Schema too and compare them.


ok well the riedquat ISO didn't take long at all. Not a fan of the self-effacing tone, but points for being clear and direct I guess. I could be persuaded to elect him. Riedquat who would you lynch if you had your way?

Fenn - have you followed up on Schema?
Thoughts?


Monstr, I must be pretty dumb because I don't see how that quoted El Barto post screams scum. I mean your posts do have a stream-of-consciousness quality to them (a towny sign imo). Would town Barto really word that post differently?

Anyway.

Paranoia says that Visor and Zack pushing Cuth D2 was suspiciously coordinated, buuut I did like eg Visor's interactions with Monty and Zack in general, and my only doubt on Cuth scum is that he's sounded almost too scummy to be scum, so I'm only going to think more about that if Cuth is lynched and flips town.

Current read list, roughly ordered:

definitely villagers:
Atheotes
Renata
Cass

probably villager:
Monstrbro
Visor
Zack

(Would preferentially vote any of the above as rep if they had been in my district)

villager lean:
Winston
Schema
Reidquat
Al Sipsclar

no idea:
Jabbz
BSmith
Montmorency (lot of posts, and I agree with him wrt districting and Cuth...but weird tone I don't like)

scum lean:
dicetosser
El Barto

probably scum:
Cuthillius (strangely find his last few posts villagery, but his earlier stuff still makes me think scum)

Vote: Cuthillius

Reads spoilered for size.

Mindmeld with the first part of the response to Monstr.

Rigid vote/read on Cuth with multiple reservations is strange.

Can agree with /understand most of the rest of the read order from a Town point of view/things you've explained but:

Why is Atheotes definitely a villager?
Why is Al Sips in with your villager leans?

[Montmorency]

[QUOTE=Montmorency;2053732084]Voting history in parentheses (not guaranteed to be complete).


<tbody>

Tally #C2 (Post #2790)



Blue
Green
Red


DISTRICT ONE
Rep
Chancellor
Lynch


Fenn
Schema

Cuth


Schema


Cuth


Riedquat
Riedquat

Cuth


Cuthilius
Schema

(GH, Fenn, Barto), Barto


DISTRICT TWO





Cass
Cass (invalid)




Renata
Renata




Monstrbro
(Monstr), Renata

(Barto, Monty), Fenn


El Barto
Cass

Monty


DISTRICT THREE





Montmorency
Visor

Cuth


Al Sipsclar
Visor

Barto


Visor
Visor

Dice


DISTRICT FOUR





Winston Hughes
Jabbz

Zack


Jabbz
Jabz




Zack
Zack

Cuth


DISTRICT FIVE





atheotes
atheotes

Cuth


BSmith
atheotes

Cuth


dicetosser1
dicetosser

Montmorency

[TR]
</tbody>


District Prospects:

1: Schema Rep, Cuth Lynch
2: Cass/Renata Rep, ? Lynch
3: Visor Rep, ? Lynch
4: Jabbz Rep, Cuth/Zack Lynch
5: Atheotes Rep, Cuth Lynch

Cass, your Rep vote is invalid, again - you didn't bold.

[Cass_]

He suggested it before dice had posted his list.

aaaaaaaaand I need more sleep.


Who are your top 3 scum reads right now?

[Monstrdude]

Something I haven't seen brought up: I think Jabbz' idea that mafia framed Zack by killing Dp is exactly backwards and would consider it w/w equity if not for their day one fight. As it is, it only brings Jabbz down a notch or so in my estimation.

The DP thing doesn't look good for Zack, but how often do mafia make kills that point directly to them and their teammates

I guess it happened when I was a wolf in the championship ww finale over on PoG. My team did it to "save me" (i probably didn't need it) and then I had to go on and on about how he was probably killed because he was just right about his villagers and his scumreads were irrelevant and I had no other defense until Iwas eventually lynched for it

I guess I can see it

[Monstrdude]

Fenn - have you followed up on Schema?
Thoughts?



Reads spoilered for size.

Mindmeld with the first part of the response to Monstr.

Rigid vote/read on Cuth with multiple reservations is strange.

Can agree with /understand most of the rest of the read order from a Town point of view/things you've explained but:

Why is Atheotes definitely a villager?
Why is Al Sips in with your villager leans?

Kk well if Barto is a wolf then I was exactly right and suck it both of you

[Montmorency]

aaaaaaaaand I need more sleep.


Who are your top 3 scum reads right now?

Cuth, Fenn, Winston/Schema

See also:




*People I would lynch before Barto if Cuth is scum: Schema, Fenn,
*If Cuth is not scum: Fenn, Winston

Also, coming to feel about Barto lynch: Kill, Kill, Kill, Kill, Kill, Kill - Kill El Defiant Guy. But don't pull that Chancellor stuff to make it happen.

[Renata]

Renata

Where are you at with Zack?

His entrance today is better for me tone/attitude-wise, but then mismatch with Barto/Cuth reads/votes and the disappearance is ??

Also, are you going to be here until/at EoD?

Yeah, I'll be here. Kiddo decided another day with cousins at grammy's is best.

Re: Zack -- it's hard for me to go after someone like him whole-heartedly with such low-hanging fruit still on the vine, but I could see him as scum, you know?

I don't have a vote yet; what's yours?

[Zack]

How am i being shaded for "disappearing"? It's called fucking Christmas!

[Zack]

Cass we were also scum in a 13er turbo

[Cass_]

Kk well if Barto is a wolf then I was exactly right and suck it both of you

Whaa?


Cuth, Fenn, Winston/Schema

See also:

Also, coming to feel about Barto lynch: Kill, Kill, Kill, Kill, Kill, Kill - Kill El Defiant Guy. But don't pull that Chancellor stuff to make it happen.

So Barto Scummy but don't lynch him today?

Why keep him over the others?

Reasons for all those scum leans?

[Renata]

The DP thing doesn't look good for Zack, but how often do mafia make kills that point directly to them and their teammates

I guess it happened when I was a wolf in the championship ww finale over on PoG. My team did it to "save me" (i probably didn't need it) and then I had to go on and on about how he was probably killed because he was just right about his villagers and his scumreads were irrelevant and I had no other defense until Iwas eventually lynched for it

I guess I can see it

Funny post. :)

I don't know, I feel sort of lost in this game right now.

[Zack]

Plus i said i would try to post less after incessant morning and whining about my post count so screw you

[Monstrdude]

I think there are wolves pushing you, Zack

Wolves are also currently pushing Cuth atm because I'm sticking with my "I think he's a villager" thoughts

I'm scared I'm wrong and he's a wolf but the way the thread is acting especially they all seem super intent on making him the first one dead

[Zack]

Very little time; should be much better tomorrow.

Zack remains my strongest scum read at this point. Maybe I'm just stuck in a tunnel, but he just looks really bad to me again today, esp. his early focus on the Cass-as-scum theory.

Jabbz is now giving Zack solid townreads, though, to the point where it seems there's no chance he'll support me while I'm aiming that way.

Knowing I won't be around for eod, I feel like I don't really have any choice but to put the decision in Jabbz's hands.

Vote: Jabbz

Vote: Zack

So your vote for to doesn't agree with your reads, and his only posts today are pushing a weird theory that clears your soonest scum read. I like your conviction Winston

[Monstrdude]

Funny post. :)

I don't know, I feel sort of lost in this game right now.

I know the exact feeling but you are one of the few people I am ALMOST ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN is a villager so I need you right now

[Zack]

I think there are wolves pushing you, Zack

Wolves are also currently pushing Cuth atm because I'm sticking with my "I think he's a villager" thoughts

I'm scared I'm wrong and he's a wolf but the way the thread is acting especially they all seem super intent on making him the first one dead

I think cass and Winston are the only ones pushing me. Do you think the are wolves?

[Renata]

1: Schema Rep, Cuth Lynch
2: Cass/Renata Rep, ? Lynch
3: Visor Rep, ? Lynch
4: Jabbz Rep, Cuth/Zack Lynch
5: Atheotes Rep, Cuth Lynch

Cass, your Rep vote is invalid, again - you didn't bold.

So we have two votes for Cuth right now, from atheotes and schema. It would take Visor, Jabbz and either me or Cass to all vote for someone else to override that. Visor, Jabbz Cass_ what are your feelings here? I don't see me voting for dicetosser (Visor's current vote).

I have the feeling Visor's going right back to Cuth in the end so this may be a moot point.

[Monstrdude]

I think cass and Winston are the only ones pushing me. Do you think the are wolves?

That's not true

Sips put you as a wolf in his list

[Zack]

That's not true

Sips put you as a wolf in his list

Meh i don't consider lifting a wolf read the same as pushing

[Renata]

I know the exact feeling but you are one of the few people I am ALMOST ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN is a villager so I need you right now

So who should Cass or I be voting for? I'm ambivalent on Cuth. Could absolutely lynch el barto. After that it's a crapshoot.

[Monstrdude]

Meh i don't consider lifting a wolf read the same as pushing

No, but it's probably even scummier to just go "yeah he's prolly a wolf" in the background while two probable villagers rail on a third

[Zack]

So we have two votes for Cuth right now, from atheotes and schema. It would take Visor, Jabbz and either me or Cass to all vote for someone else to override that. Visor, Jabbz Cass_ what are your feelings here? I don't see me voting for dicetosser (Visor's current vote).

I have the feeling Visor's going right back to Cuth in the end so this may be a moot point.

I think it's crazy to lynch outside cuth/barto

[Monstrdude]

So who should Cass or I be voting for? I'm ambivalent on Cuth. Could absolutely lynch el barto. After that it's a crapshoot.

Barto is fine to resolve at this point because if he is a wolf I have a few team connections I think I can make

Can you do me a favor and iso Al Sipsclar and tell me why you think?

[Monstrdude]

...what you think

No need to tell me you think because you have a brain tyty

[Zack]

No, but it's probably even scummier to just go "yeah he's prolly a wolf" in the background while two probable villagers rail on a third

OK but you said you thought wolves are pushing me

[Montmorency]

More the other way around: scumminess not changed but I don't want to work against his lynch.

Cuth is a lynchpin who, despite his erratic approaches, can't ever be reliably cleared. Priority over others, even though less scummy than Winston.

Winston has sounded bad to me throughout the game, especially on Zack.

Fenn is marked lolscum from Csargo's slot, evidently following the flow of activity, but so far treading lightly. A hunch I am willing to entertain.

[Monstrdude]

OK but you said you thought wolves are pushing me

There have been many players that have been doing stuff like that

It was a generic sweeping statement implying I need to go back and reread all the interactions involving your slot, because I think wolves are setting you up for a mislynch

Christ pushing doesn't have to mean hard pushing

Soft pushing IS STILL PUSHING and arguing about this stuff is just semantics

[Jabbz]

So your vote for to doesn't agree with your reads, and his only posts today are pushing a weird theory that clears your soonest scum read. I like your conviction Winston

I'm pretty sure it's a focus on self preservation Zack. I don't view it as particularly scummy, but then again, I don't currently view either of you as scummy right now, and you view each other as scummy, so that's likely to shade your opinions. Further, I'd argue that based on the first part of today's conversation, the intent is for district leaders to follow the will of their district, so make an argument and I'll keep that in mind when I vote for what is likely to be a tie breaker in our district.

I'm currently working out my reads, though it's going slowly due to the size of the game so far. I'll try to get something up shortly.

[Cuthillius]

zack

and anyone who's played with me much before

you know that my actions this day phase are ~lock clearing

i want you to remember that

and commit it to your consciences

and then try to win the game tomorrow

[Renata]

I hate multiquote on this board. First half of Al Sips' posts. The only issue in here is promising to do work he doesn't wind up doing.


Vote: BSmith ~:wave:

Sorry for my absence - busy weekend, when I was barely able to peek out at the thread. And now I have to work, so I'm giving up on my catch up effort. Voting now based on the 200+ posts I was able to read so far. See you all tomorrow, maybe.

Vote: Cass_
Vote: Zack


Monty is like the world's largest tunnel-boring machine. Which has broken down and stalled. And I was so ready to vote him before that.


Vote: Cass_


From town to scum:

Cass_
Renata
Dp101

atheotes
dicetosser1
Jabbz
Visor

Monstrbro
Zack
Winston

BSmith
CSargo
Riedquat

Monty
GH
El Barto
Schema
Cuthillius

Need to ISO the last group to make up my mind.


He always seems scummy to me. :sad: The only time I saw him as town was because of an in-universe connection between our characters in Futurama. Need to read up.


Also, I could never understand the Zack-talk. Like this or the exchanges Zack had with Monstrbro yesterday.

[Monstrdude]

Zack what do you think about all Sipsclar

And I swear on my unborn child if you say iso me I'm gonna smack you telepathically

[Monstrdude]

zack

and anyone who's played with me much before

you know that my actions this day phase are ~lock clearing

i want you to remember that

and commit it to your consciences

and then try to win the game tomorrow

I've got your back bros kill

I've never played with you before though

If you're owning me then I suck and i'll prolly retire so pls be a villager

[Monstrdude]

....broski great now my friendly term about being bros turned into bro betrayal

[Zack]

zack

and anyone who's played with me much before

you know that my actions this day phase are ~lock clearing

i want you to remember that

and commit it to your consciences

and then try to win the game tomorrow

How would i know that what

You are not incapable of doing stuff as a wolf

[Zack]

Zack what do you think about all Sipsclar

And I swear on my unborn child if you say iso me I'm gonna smack you telepathically

Meh null

Haven't really paid attention to him

[Renata]

Rest of Al Sips' iso. He looks fine to me. There's not much to go on admittedly, but no alarm bells ringing.


yep, idk what half of your posts mean, that's my point. So I usually think that if I can't figure out what Zack means, he must be town.


Mind you, these are mostly gut feelings and tonal reads, not hard cases. I'm very pliable.
The bottom group is scum leans. BSmith, Csargo, and Riedquat are null.
Monty is leaning scum for his Visor tunnel and seemingly obstructionist stance on D1.
Schema is just a feeling I got from the cursory read, so I need to iso her.
Jabbz - from choxorn interaction.


x-post with Renata talking about the same thing wrt Jabbz and choxorn.


Schema looks okay on re-read. I'm moving her to my Zack/Monstr/WH group.

Backed off from Renata
Monstr interaction seems good
Visor interaction is ok, love the fluorine reference.
Noted Monty's Visor engagement
Cleared Sooh, Renata, Monstr
Scum leans on Visor for her reaction testing and Cuth push
Mentioned choxorn in passing.
Null on atheotes
votes GH


Vote: Monty


Vote: Visor
Vote: El Barto

Likely, not going to be around EOD.

Not lynching:
Cass_
Renata
atheotes
Winston Hughes
Visor

No idea:
Jabbz
dicetosser1
Fenn
Schema
Riedquat
Monstrbro

Ok to lynch:
Cuthillius
BSmith
Zack
Montmorency
El Barto

[Zack]

My conscious lol

Need stronger ate than that boyo

[Zack]

Rest of Al Sips' iso. He looks fine to me. There's not much to go on admittedly, but no alarm bells ringing.















He has me as town and tells about it a few times then moves me to am with no explanation? And monstr moved from town to "no idea" because ??

[Monstrdude]

I think we either have to put up Barto from our district or be so certain that we have a wolf we can get them lynched over anyone else, Renata

The problem is the wolves are doing a great job of blending in, to the point where I continuously think that at least 2 of them if not 3 are hiding in the clearer players

If cuth is a wolf I think the game might be a lot easier than I think

[Monstrdude]

He has me as town and tells about it a few times then moves me to am with no explanation? And monstr moved from town to "no idea" because ??

Yar I saw it too

[Monstrdude]

From my perspective it looked like he moved me from town to no idea because a bunch of villagers started doing it and he thought he could get away with it

[Renata]

He has me as town and tells about it a few times then moves me to am with no explanation? And monstr moved from town to "no idea" because ??

Oh, I missed the Zack movement. You're right about that. I'm not worried about the monstr thing because I believe that's more an issue of labelling of categories -- monstr was in the lowest town group previously just above the nulls.

[Monstrdude]

Oh, I missed the Zack movement. You're right about that. I'm not worried about the monstr thing because I believe that's more an issue of labelling of categories -- monstr was in the lowest town group previously just above the nulls.

Idk still

Electing to not have a read on me at this point is either lazy or wolfy, and often both

[Renata]

I think we either have to put up Barto from our district or be so certain that we have a wolf we can get them lynched over anyone else, Renata

The problem is the wolves are doing a great job of blending in, to the point where I continuously think that at least 2 of them if not 3 are hiding in the clearer players

If cuth is a wolf I think the game might be a lot easier than I think

So then should our district vote Cuth just to find out? Can you do that to someone you're reading as town? What's the path forward if he's lynched and is town? What if he's not lynched?

[Monstrdude]

So then should our district vote Cuth just to find out? Can you do that to someone you're reading as town? What's the path forward if he's lynched and is town? What if he's not lynched?

If he's lynched and town I'm probably going to have to overhaul the entire thread and teach you all a lesson in listening to me

But if he's a wolf I give permission to lol heartily until the end of time because at this point I deserve it

I guess district voting cuth is okay, I am willing to give him that power I just worry about what happened d1 with him and Sooh still

You know that pr claims are true like 80% of the time, right cuth?

[Monstrdude]

If he's not lynched I'm gonna keep canvassing my reads and bouncing ideas off my villagers like I have been in an effort to connect us in a group the wolves cannot tear apart no matter how hard they try, because that is the village's best play, and it also helps me form my opinions even more, because just thinking about your suspicions isn't enough to take a player out of the null category. You need multiple perspectives

[Renata]

vote: El Barto

[Cass_]

Yeah, I'll be here. Kiddo decided another day with cousins at grammy's is best.

Re: Zack -- it's hard for me to go after someone like him whole-heartedly with such low-hanging fruit still on the vine, but I could see him as scum, you know?

I don't have a vote yet; what's yours?


So we have two votes for Cuth right now, from atheotes and schema. It would take Visor, Jabbz and either me or Cass to all vote for someone else to override that. Visor, Jabbz Cass_ what are your feelings here? I don't see me voting for dicetosser (Visor's current vote).

I have the feeling Visor's going right back to Cuth in the end so this may be a moot point.


So who should Cass or I be voting for? I'm ambivalent on Cuth. Could absolutely lynch el barto. After that it's a crapshoot.

The prob with Cuth here is it'll be hard to overthrow a lynch on him.

Barto is still scum lean/WTL for me over Cuth. I go back and forth on my read of Cuth's actual alignment aorn can't tell if he's Town or lolcatting scum, Visor interactions with him are ?

After that Csargo/Fenn / Other low posters. Tinfoil is everywhere.

What were Jabbz' last leans?

[Renata]

Latest is he says he's working it out and it'll be up shortly, in a post where he said he read neither Winston nor Zack as wolves. 50 min to go, so ... He does not have a vote down right now.

[Zack]

town and lolcatting scum seem like pretty different extremes

[atheotes]

Funny post. :)

I don't know, I feel sort of lost in this game right now.

you and me buddy. i think i said it in the thread yesterday.
I am attributing it to having consensus (sort of) lynches waiting to happen.

[Monstrdude]

you and me buddy. i think i said it in the thread yesterday.
I am attributing it to having consensus (sort of) lynches waiting to happen.

Yeah it's going around

[Jabbz]

First part of my reads from Iso. Started with Schema because there is something about her posts I just dislike, and after Iso it comes across as more scummy to me than not. Then went with the smaller posters, though I think that was a waste. Shifting to Barto and Cuth here due to time constraints and the fact that they are really the ones on the block.

Schema
Most posts are asking others for opinions rather than making own arguments
Voted for self over Dp101. Said ok with “cleared town” staying as rep, didn’t move vote until much later, even comments leaving vote on self “for now.” Comes across as looking for an excuse to “forget” or waiting for a reason to not vote in favor of Dp
Arguments start to get better, but only around post 2000

Too many of Schema's posts are about seeking someone else's opinion of an individual, but then never following up on it. I feel like she is trying to appear engaged without actually doing much work, while also trying to buddy up to individuals by making them feel their opinion is important. Yes I understand others are also asking different people for reads, but they are following up on them, and making their own arguments as well, something Schema seems light on. She really just doesn't seem to generate any substantial content, and it leaves us without somewhere to look to say wolf or town.

I also really disliked the interaction on voting herself for the rep position over Dp. I didn't find the excuse that she didn't realize someone could be reelected believable for one. Then after she is called on it, she keeps her vote on herself. It felt like she was looking for an excuse to "forget" to move it or was looking for a reason later to justify not voting for Dp.

Not worth a lynch at this time, especially with others on the list, but worth keeping an eye on.

Csargo
Too little to go off of. I understand the concerns about volume, this is much higher than I expected. Basically not contributing anything. Then becomes Fenn. Still not a lot of content. I kind of don’t like this post for a couple of reasons.


If I was playing D1 I would have pushed Sooh too, at least until the PR claim (and IIRC Schema backed off at that point).

First, it’s an easy push to garner some town cred in a way that requires no action at all. Saying you would have acted towny in a situation that has already been resolved seems off to me. Second, he isn’t just working it for himself however, but tries to clear someone I feel is pretty wolfish, so maybe that’s tainting my view of it. Lynching doesn’t appear to provide any useful information either way at this point, just not enough interaction, and Csargo posted so little it’s hard to find any combination of the two of them that screams either wolf or town.


Bsmith seems to be in a similar boat, though is maintaining more activity today. It’s a bit frustrating trying to read since there is virtually no content to work with.


Al Sipsclar
Seems a little better than the previous two. Providing better justifications for reads, at least one unique argument being introduced. I disagree with his take on Schema, but still too little content to really judge. A lynch here would be more telling than one of Csargo/Fenn or BSmith.

Riedquat
Same as above. Nothing to work with at this point. I hate lurkers.

Fake Edit: I thought I posted this a good 20 minutes ago, my bad.

[Cass_]

From my perspective it looked like he moved me from town to no idea because a bunch of villagers started doing it and he thought he could get away with it


He has me as town and tells about it a few times then moves me to am with no explanation? And monstr moved from town to "no idea" because ??

Also moves schema to the 'no idea' after having her Town

Flips Barto and Monty to vote Barto this phase

[atheotes]

So who should Cass or I be voting for? I'm ambivalent on Cuth. Could absolutely lynch el barto. After that it's a crapshoot.

is anyone having El Barto in their town list? (Maybe Cass :laugh4:)

Still prefer Cuth today.

[Jabbz]

Latest is he says he's working it out and it'll be up shortly, in a post where he said he read neither Winston nor Zack as wolves. 50 min to go, so ... He does not have a vote down right now.

Yeah sorry, I really thought I pushed post, must have pushed review one more time :/

[Jabbz]

El Barto.

Things I don’t like.
Argument with Mbro, specifically, “why do I even read your posts”
Policy lynch lines.
Weak justifications for Zack votes.

I have a real problem with this post.

I haven't paid him that much attention, having had to defend myself and with limited time.

As town, even if I’m under fire, my goal is still to make sure that I hunt scum. If I get mislynched but I’ve been hunting scum, I leave valuable information for town behind me. If all I’ve done is defend myself and I get mislynched, I leave nothing. I’m certainly not advocating against defending oneself, but doing so at the expense of scum hunting is either wolfish or poor play.

Overall his contributions are lacking much in the way of real arguments. I don’t recall many people actively defending him, but there are a goodly number of people going after him. If he pops town, which I doubt, he would give u a lot of information to parse regarding who pushed him. If he pops scum, which I think is more likely, we won’t get anything from who defended him, but we might get something out of those who pushed the null hypothesis, and we kill a scum, so win win.

Tentative vote on Vote: El Barto pending the finishing of my ISO on Cuth.

[Cass_]

My head is going in soooooooo many circles.

Vote: Renata

Vote: El Barto

Third time lucky?

[Jabbz]

By the by, if someone could tell me how to get more than just the last 100 posts in ISO of someone that would be helpful.

[Monstrdude]

My head is going in soooooooo many circles.

Vote: Renata

Vote: El Barto

Third time lucky?

Me too, I'm at a loss cause it's like

Here are my villagers

Gap

Sea of "????"

[dicetosser1]

I think Dicetosser is a wolf, thoughts?


that ure wrong and that ure upset cause im not clearing you.




Do you think Dice posts more as town over scum?


nope. people still think that meta applies but I have worked hard to get past it. Ive told youse multiple times post count means NOTHING.




I'm about 10 pages behind and unlikely to catch up before the end of day.

vote: atheotes

vote: cuth

We can take care of Barto next.


Or is there another consensus target that would benefit being removed from the game?

these two posts stink. Just lazy and unthinking.




*Gives chocolate for energy and answers*

? Bold seems contradictory


basically he meant if he agreed with my reads hed rep me. if not not.

[atheotes]

So Visor gets to decide?
Come on Visor, isnt this what you wanted?

[dicetosser1]

So who should Cass or I be voting for? I'm ambivalent on Cuth. Could absolutely lynch el barto. After that it's a crapshoot.

monty or barto and please look at the monty quote below this






More the other way around: scumminess not changed but I don't want to work against his lynch.

Cuth is a lynchpin who, despite his erratic approaches, can't ever be reliably cleared. Priority over others, even though less scummy than Winston.

Winston has sounded bad to me throughout the game, especially on Zack.

Fenn is marked lolscum from Csargo's slot, evidently following the flow of activity, but so far treading lightly. A hunch I am willing to entertain.


So the red seems to boil down to " cuth is hard to read so we need to lynch him to find out" That about right Montmorency??

[Cass_]

Tentative vote on Vote: El Barto pending the finishing of my ISO on Cuth.

AFAICT This currently puts us at a tie again.

El Barto is being voted in : 2, 4

and

Cuth is being voted in: 1, 5


Visor shifted his vote and put District 3 on Dice.



Taking a traditional tally/individual votes:

Cuth (7): Fenn, Schema, Riedquat, Montmorency, Zack, atheotes, BSmith

El Barto (5): Cuth, Cass, Renata, Al Sips, Jabbz

Monty (2): El Barto, Dicetosser

Fenn (1): Monstr

Dice (1): Visor

Zack (1): Winston Hughes,



Visor - Barto or Cuth today?


@ Everyone - Thoughts on going Barto over a representative lynch (according to individual votes)?

[Cass_]

NB order of those votes according to the lists by Monty, not picked out from thread

[Montmorency]

monty or barto and please look at the monty quote below this

So the red seems to boil down to " cuth is hard to read so we need to lynch him to find out" That about right Montmorency??

No, he reads pretty scum. That he reads less scum than some (IMO) but should still be lynched speaks to the problem of ever gaining anything useful from leaving the case to fester. He would never come off the POE.

[Fenn]

Fenn - have you followed up on Schema?
Thoughts?
Went back and ISO'd her, still think she's villagery. Interactions with Renata sounded natural; good response to Cuth's Sooh-pushing shenanigans EoD1; voting self for rep D2 was a bit odd and still unexplained though. Hasn't posted since the 24th so it would be nice if she could return and give thoughts.

Related, early D2 Montmorency pushing for wolf/town in Visor/Cuth and lynching Visor first for no reasons given that I could find. Also didn't seem to be concerned about Renata's vote for him, and I don't think anybody else really went after him? Gut says possible scum trying to straddle the line between too towny too live and too scummy not to lynch.



Rigid vote/read on Cuth with multiple reservations is strange.
Yes I have reservations about Cuthillius, it's possible he's town. I'm not going to pretend to be more certain than I actually am. Still think he's the scummiest player around.




Why is Atheotes definitely a villager?
Why is Al Sips in with your villager leans?

Atheotes' posting has a town perspective to it in general. Add to that and he was pushing for Cuth or Chox to be lynched EoD1 which looks good for him in light of Chox's flip. Hasn't coasted on this either, he's still contributing and trying to solve.

Al Sips is just a feeling. I like his tone, and reasons for reads that he gave.

[Monstrdude]

Nonzero chance we have v/v wagons here this vote spread is ew

[Askthepizzaguy]

District 1
Fenn Schema / Cuth
Schema --- / Cuth
Riedquat Riedquat / Cuth
Cuth Schema /Barto
District 2
Cass Renata / Barto
Renata Renata / Barto
Monstr Renata / Fenn
Barto Cass / Monty
District 3
Monty Visor / Cuth
Al Sips Visor / Barto
Visor Visor / Dice
District 4
Winston Jabbz / Zack
Jabbz Jabbz / Barto
Zack Zack / Cuth
District 5
Atheotes atheotes / Cuth
BSmith atheotes / Cuth
Dice Dice / Monty


If this tally isn't right, correct me via PM or before day ends in the thread.

[Fenn]

Cass weren't you arguing in favor of a representative approach earlier today and D2? Why the shift now?

[dicetosser1]

cass I signed up to this having been told itd be low volume. I call bullshanks pizza! ive been sick and busy at work so im MASSIVELY behind in the thread.

So I haven't read much of ure stuff after D1 but am aware that u lynched scum d1 town d2. One thing I don't have recollection of you being is a busser.

An argument was made that scum wouldn't bus D1 which I called rubbish but I don't see YOU bussing there. and I could see you thinking. Which is exactly why ure first couple games you sucked me right in if you recall but its not causing me to tinfoil. probably should be but its not.

heres something for you to consider as scum?? id ABSOLUTELY be tinfoiling on you cause I KNOW you expect it.

[Monstrdude]

unvote
Vote: El Barto

I guess

[Monstrdude]

cass I signed up to this having been told itd be low volume. I call bullshanks pizza! ive been sick and busy at work so im MASSIVELY behind in the thread.

So I haven't read much of ure stuff after D1 but am aware that u lynched scum d1 town d2. One thing I don't have recollection of you being is a busser.

An argument was made that scum wouldn't bus D1 which I called rubbish but I don't see YOU bussing there. and I could see you thinking. Which is exactly why ure first couple games you sucked me right in if you recall but its not causing me to tinfoil. probably should be but its not.

heres something for you to consider as scum?? id ABSOLUTELY be tinfoiling on you cause I KNOW you expect it.

It's mostly me and Zack and I'm sorry at least

I was trying to cut back but I just care too much and want to talk to every player individually

[Jabbz]

Cuthillius

Maybe he’s not the only one, but given that I’ve had a few different pushes against me, and a number of people asking for reads on me, how did he go this entire game without addressing me, given he has the third highest post count?


i have literally said nothing about jabbz this entire game

This seems to be a weak reason to be on the top of someone’s scumlist, especially knowing as we now do that he ended up being blue, like, before this post. I’m not sure if this should be read as “I really did not notice” which is bad town play, or “I’m playing like I didn’t notice.” I can’t picture a role where I legitimately don’t care who swung last, so I don’t see how this happened.


lol
anyway
gh is still my top scum
for example, the last (only?) time he posted a readlist, he explained that it was not his, but rather consensus, which ???
i fail to see how that's exactly important or helpful for town
vote: generalhankerchief

This post on the other hand comes across to me as very towny.
I do think El Barto is a bit towny
I feel the way in which the thread is consensusing against him
in particular
and the way people talk about him
i personally get the sense the scum team is sitting back and enjoying the ride because everyone's going to talk about me and el barto until we're dead unless something changes
apart from that i can't really say how i feel about his posts
in a vacuum i'd say the tone is maybe sliightly towny
but there are some meh posts

While this was only about halfway through the day, I believe both Cuth and Barto were already high on the swinging list. I see a couple of possibilities following this scenario. Cuth thinks he can get Barto to swing, and as scum, knows barto is town. Tries to give him props hoping to get cleared after he swings. Cuth thinks he is going to swing, so gives props to barto hoping town lynches him tomorrow. Cuth is town, legitimately reads Barto as town, and calls it accordingly. Both are scum and he is trying to provide cover for either himself or Bart depending on who swings.

Of those, the one I find most likely is Cuth as town. I think it’s highly improbable we managed to get two of the remaining 3 or 4 scum on the block at the same time. As to the two Cuth as scum scenario’s, they just don’t seem likely to be worth the effort for the limited potential gain.

My, admittedly somewhat rushed, read of Cuth is leaning somewhat town. He seems genuinely engaged for the most part, and while a number of his posts come across questionable, I don’t read ill intent into them as of yet. He is supporting people I find somewhat scummy (Schema), but given that my reads are far from perfect as a general rule, I don’t credit that too much.

[Montmorency]

Gut says possible scum trying to straddle the line between too towny too live and too scummy not to lynch.


Townie straddle the line. Good observation.

[Cass_]

Cass weren't you arguing in favor of a representative approach earlier today and D2? Why the shift now?

There's no shift in my view.

I'm after thread consensus. Which never happened, and now I'm conveniently in a 'break-the-tie' spot again.

I think it gives the best results for vote analysis/overall thread representation. The problem with this? It goes against my district, and we don't vote Barto, again

[dicetosser1]

unvote vote El Barto


I wont be voting cuth

[Jabbz]

Reads are town and scum are from most Town(scum) to least.

Town Lean
Cass_ (95% sure)
Renata
atheotes
Zack
Cuthillius


Don't have solid reads one way or the other
Montmorency
dicetosser1
Monstrbro
Visor
Winston Hughes

No reads due to low content
Riedquat
Csargo
Al Sipsclar

Questionable
Bsmith/Fenn

Scum Lean
El Barto
Schema

I would also note that I find the interaction between MontMorency and Monsterbro to be forced. The whole thing just feels like they are trying to distance themselves from each other, something I typically view as a scum tactic. I need to read through them, but Christmas (and my birthday in two days) ate so much damn time that I'm lucky I was able to sleep.

[Askthepizzaguy]

:30 good

:31 no good

:32 very bad, you shouldn't be posting.

5 minutes remain.

[atheotes]

Visorslash

[Montmorency]

Honeymoon over. Things are getting rough.

Visor is no-effect and there is a perfect tie between Cuth and Barto among the Reps and the electorate at large.

This is your power waxing, Cass. Death or glory.

[Renata]

I'm back. Looks like a tie again,unless I want to bury Cuth and I'm not sure I do. Last minute pitches?

[Cass_]

Traditional tally/individual votes are now directly tied thanks to movement by Monstr and Dice.


Cuth (7): Fenn, Schema, Riedquat, Montmorency, Zack, atheotes, BSmith

El Barto (7): Cuth, Cass, Renata, Al Sips, Jabbz, Dicetosser, Monstr

Monty (1): El Barto

Dice (1): Visor

Zack (1): Winston Hughes


Visor - Barto or Cuth today?

everyone

If Visor doesn't answer, I'll be going Barto, can't see anything that clears him Town.

[Zack]

I think they are both wolves so it doesn't really matter that much to me which way it goes, cass

[atheotes]

Cuth is wolf. I peeked him :yes:

[Monstrdude]

This thread is so tense rn

Or maybe it's just me

But I think it's the thread

[Montmorency]

Renata, this might be your last night. Say something.

Cass too.

[Fenn]

Nonzero chance we have v/v wagons here this vote spread is ew

I sure hope not lol. Looks like it's once again up to Cass to decide a tie...good luck!!

[Renata]

No time. I don't feel I've been very useful. :(

[Cass_]

Honeymoon over. Things are getting rough.

Visor is no-effect and there is a perfect tie between Cuth and Barto among the Reps and the electorate at large.

This is your power waxing, Cass. Death or glory.

*Wrestles with the puppet strings*

[atheotes]

Vote: El Barto

[atheotes]

Vote: El Barto

[Zack]

Cuth is wolf. I peeked him :yes:


Vote: El Barto

Wut

[Montmorency]

Wut

Cass' puppet strings.

[Askthepizzaguy]

:32 stop posting

[Askthepizzaguy]

District 1
Fenn Schema / Cuth
Schema --- / Cuth
Riedquat Riedquat / Cuth
Cuth Schema /Barto
District 2
Cass Renata / Barto
Renata Renata / Barto
Monstr Renata / Barto
Barto Cass / Monty
District 3
Monty Visor / Cuth
Al Sips Visor / Barto
Visor Visor / Dice
District 4
Winston Jabbz / Zack
Jabbz Jabbz / Barto
Zack Zack / Cuth
District 5
Atheotes atheotes / Barto
BSmith atheotes / Cuth
Dice Dice / Barto

Tally irregularities? PM me.

It is night. Do not post.

Writeup incoming.

[Askthepizzaguy]

December, 2020
Madam Chancellor's Palace






The Chancellor perched on her throne, weary of the burdens of command. Yet it seemed comfortable by now, like old leather. By now, it seemed silly to give it up. There was no one else that could handle the leadership of an empire like hers. Her cloaked advisors surrounded the throne, chanting praises of her glorious name. The throne room was filled with her supporters. The sea of hooded figures parted, as yet another prisoner was dragged before her highest majesty.

"Your excellency, we have found another..."

"SILENCE!" boomed her honor, the glorious Supreme Chancellor for Life. The crowd immediately hushed, and you could hear a pin drop.

....

"E-LECT-ION RESULTS!!!!" she shouted regally.

Men in shiny boots and military fatigues grabbed one of the officials and threw him in front of the throne, and pointed their automatic weapons at his head.

"R-r-r-ight, um.... her majesty's, uh, election results... well, even though, her majesty graciously stepped down as a candidate for representative, while retaining her Chancellor duties, it seems as though everything is still proceeding as Madam Chancellor wishes. We caught the traitor you requested, as usual!"


"DETAILS, MY CHILD, DETAILS!!! I WANT TO HEAR MORE!!!"

"Oh, yes, well... there's this uh, schemer you put in charge of district one, and uh, she won of course... then, then, your surrogate in district two voted as you did and was elected at your command, and then one of your advisors was elected to district three, and this really punchy character was elected to district four, and another one of your godless bureaucrats was elected to district five, and, well, most of them chose this prisoner as your latest victim, err, sacrifice?"

"PUNISH THE CONDEMNED!!!"

"Right... and, uh, how shall we do that, your most purest-ness?"


"SEND HIM TO THE MOON!!!!"

"Uh, w-w-what? Pardon me? What do you..."

The guards shot the incompetent bureaucrat in the head, and dragged the prisoner to the Supreme Chancellor's backyard launch facility. The prisoner was placed inside a space suit and then shoved into a rocket ship, and in a few moments, it blasted off into space.

Things were fairly quiet back on earth, as the highly advanced rocket made its way to the moon in a matter of a few hours, thanks to the Supreme Chancellor's interest in space-based weaponry.

But before it could make it all the way to the moon, a superhero suddenly appeared out of the sky, and requested an audience with Her Greatness.

"Let him through!"

It was... it was....







http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/superheroes/images/4/43/Captain_Hindsight.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20101112014058

CAPTAIN HINDSIGHT!!!



Captain Hindsight: "Your exaltedness, I have news for you! That General fellow that you executed, it turns out, he was innocent all along!"

....

"CORRECT HIM!"

"Well, I guess I should ha-" *BLAM*

The guards immediately shot Captain Hindsight in the head. It turns out, he should have worn some bulletproof headgear.

Meanwhile, the rocket containing El Barto finally landed on the moon.



https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/de/c7/57/dec7570cd000d049ee93967bed9e9692.jpg

This is so awesome.




....What now?

"SHOW HIM THE ULTIMATE MERCY!!!" boomed the Supreme Chancellor.

....

"Ok!"














https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7g77WN6obk4




The Cass Star opened fire on the moon, totally destroying it and everyone who was on it at the time, which was just El Barto.

He turned out to be....

A member of the mafia! A loyal Goon!And with no Captain Hindsight around to correct me, I am certain that must be correct. Also...
I can make you click on spoilers! ANY SPOILERS I PLEASE!!! Mwhahahahaha!!!!Wow, what an amazing development.

"What next, your greatest-ness?" whispered the hooded man standing behind Cass.

"COLLECT SOME ASTEROIDS, AND BUILD ME ANOTHER MOON!"

And so that's what they did next.

It is still night! Send in night actions.

[El Barto]

Dang, you made me click on a spoiler. *dies*

[Askthepizzaguy]

More killings took place that night.

Renata and Cuthillius were both found deceased. They were vanilla townies.



@Monstrbro (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=100476)
@Montmorency (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=74339)
@Cass_ (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=100059)
@Al Sipsclar (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=99974)
@Zack (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=59017)
@dicetosser1 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=100477)
@atheotes (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=23809)
@BSmith (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=94273)
@Winston Hughes (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=49887)
@Jabbz (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=100481)
@Schema (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=100482)
@Visor (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=66432)
@Fenn (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=100483)
@Riedquat (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=13388)



District 1
Fenn
Schema
Riedquat

District 2
Cass
Monstr

District 3
Monty
Al Sips
Visor

District 4
Winston
Jabbz
Zack

District 5
Atheotes
BSmith
Dice



No chancellor election.

Districts will need to be redrawn. Minimum 3 per district. 24 hour time limit.

New district representatives will need to be elected.

Today you will be electing district representatives and voting to lynch someone only.

IT IS DAY. YOU MAY POST.

http://www.pending.me.uk/cd/blu_1483126200.png

[Zack]

Vote: Zack

[Zack]

For what it's worth, one thing a dead Barto is good for is his reads.

The fact he suspected Zack has no bearing on my mentioning this, btw. :hide:
~:wave:

[Zack]

obviously cass is town with cuth's flip

[Zack]

Cuth is wolf. I peeked him :yes:


Vote: El Barto

can i get an explanation for this sequence

[Zack]

I assume Cuth was a vig shot, no way scum kill him

[Montmorency]

Masquerading as a man with a reason
My charade is the event of the season
And if I claim to be a wise man, it surely
Means that I don't know

[Monstrdude]

Gg cuth

[Monstrdude]

Gg every dead villager

Dwdw I won't let us down

More at 11

[Monstrdude]

I would say visor should be catching a wolf or dying soon but his tone d1 was really good so I'm willing to let our differences on cuth slide

Winston is lock clear from Barto spew, less than 5% of the time that's w/w omgus from Barto

Zack looks good from Barto too I think, but I haven't done my reiso of Barto yet this is all just from memory

[Monstrdude]

I would say at most one wolf was "bussing" Barto

My first guess would be Sipsclar but I could be wrong.

Jabbz should always be a villager from EoD

[Monstrdude]

Cass_

Because I mean well lol

[Monstrdude]

My PoE today is fenn/schema/Sipsclar I think

The cuth voters need to be scrutinized I mean they're prolly mostly villagers but no way that wagon didn't have wolves on it

[BSmith]

I assume Cuth was a vig shot, no way scum kill him

Aye. :hide:

[Montmorency]

I would say at most one wolf was "bussing" Barto

My first guess would be Sipsclar but I could be wrong.

Jabbz should always be a villager from EoD

Dice and Jabbz revised scum reads on Cuth to town, Jabbz despite having Schema as scum (Cuth townread her). May look good for them.

What about Winston spew, you say?

Zack, Visor, and Al Sipsclar tended to support Bart-Cuth team.

[Montmorency]

I think I should focus on discovery from now on.

Please refer to following statement for D4 and possibly beyond:

A. One of Zack and Visor will be scum.
B. One of Al Sipsclar and Winston will be scum.
C. One of Fenn and Schema will be scum.

I don't trust the Bart-on-Winston spew, Monstr. I think the effect may be more likely to the opposite (i.e. distancing).

[Monstrdude]

I think I should focus on discovery from now on.

Please refer to following statement for D4 and possibly beyond:

A. One of Zack and Visor will be scum.
B. One of Al Sipsclar and Winston will be scum.
C. One of Fenn and Schema will be scum.

I don't trust the Bart-on-Winston spew, Monstr. I think the effect may be more likely to the opposite (i.e. distancing).

It's possible I'll go over it again to see

[Montmorency]

It's possible I'll go over it again to see

Remember that antipathy already manifested on D2, during Bart's "policy OMGUS" game.

[Zack]

Tak (Barto) always shades and votes his teammates (as well as townies obviously), I certainly wouldn't clear anyone for that. It's more informative to look at what they said about Barto than the other way around.

[Winston Hughes]

For what it's worth, one thing a dead Barto is good for is his reads.

The fact he suspected Zack has no bearing on my mentioning this, btw. :hide:
Tak (Barto) always shades and votes his teammates (as well as townies obviously), I certainly wouldn't clear anyone for that.

:creep:

[Winston Hughes]

Seriously, though, it's a point in your favour.

I'm not out of the tunnel just yet, but there's a speck of light.

Do you think there's any chance I'm scum?

[Winston Hughes]

Jabbz should always be a villager from EoD

Yeah, and not just for the vote, but also for the process.

[Montmorency]

Do you think there's any chance I'm scum?

Yeah.


As I said, I haven't read about a third of the total posts here (they were probably all made by Monstrbro, but still) so I don't feel I can put them in real order, not so early in the game anyway.

El Barto: obviously town (read my role PM)
Cass_: highly likely town (50% success rate is not bad compared to usual town performances, if she were scum she would have just lynched me)

The following are neither cleared nor scum, these are just comments. I haven't done an ISO on anyone (my wifi broke down six times today, if I counted properly) and it's mostly vibes.
Also, someone posted something early on D2 about people being cleared by their actions on late D1, I agreed with that post and whatever I posted then should overwrite anything I post here.

Monstrbro: I'm not sure what to make of this. Someone shut him up though, he makes the thread unreadable.
Renata: pooo-ssible town.
Al Sipsclar: poo-sible town.
Cuthillius: scumscum
Zack: too aggressive, tries not to reply to me
dicetosser1 - ???
atheotes - probable town
BSmith - probable town
Winston Hughes - drunk, pretended my ‘I killed Sooh’ thing was real.
Jabbz - ???
Schema - don't know what to compare against.
Visor: can't bloody read him, could be scum or not. Don't see him as scum with Monty thought.
Riedquat: taking the mickey of us
Csargo/Fenn: Has posted too little.
Montmorency: powahgrabbah, my current vote.

Barto's D3 reads. My POE in bolds.

[Winston Hughes]

When does a scumbag ever put that much effort into lynching a teammate, when there's an easy patsy readily available in the shape of Cuth?

If that's wolfing, it's not like any I've ever seen.

[Winston Hughes]

Yeah.

Well, obviously.

But it's Zack I'm asking.

[Winston Hughes]

Post 2911 above was about Jabbz, btw.

[Fenn]

Mea culpa. Sorry for being so obtuse Cuthillius.

Basically no way Monstr isn't town, there's only so deep a deep cover can get before it's self-defeating. Similar for atheotes, it's not impossible that a scum atheotes would assume Cass would choose Barto and thus switch his vote to take the credit, but that's also silly when there's much more plausible theories to look at. Feeling a little better about dicetosser too.

Now that my strongest scum read was actually a villager the whole time I got to step back and reevaluate.

[Fenn]

I don't think it's very likely scum would go to great lengths to bus Barto when they're already a man down on D3. It's not like Barto was an unstoppable wagon you'd look scummy for easing up on either, the votes were close enough one could arguably change their mind midway.

[Winston Hughes]

Fenn

What do you think of Visor, Zack, and Monty?

[Zack]

Seriously, though, it's a point in your favour.

I'm not out of the tunnel just yet, but there's a speck of light.

Do you think there's any chance I'm scum?
What kind of a question is that?

[Winston Hughes]

What kind of a question is that?

The kind where I want you to give me your read on me.

[Zack]

The kind where I want you to give me your read on me.
That's not the question you asked.

also something something stop being obsessed with yourself, something

[Montmorency]

Yesterday's tally. before atheotes' decisive switch.


Cuth (7): Fenn, Schema, Riedquat, Montmorency, Zack, atheotes, BSmith

El Barto (7): Cuth, Cass, Renata, Al Sips, Jabbz, Dicetosser, Monstr

Monty (1): El Barto

Dice (1): Visor

Zack (1): Winston Hughes

Jabbz, dice, and Monstr were the Barto-voters/switchers that led up to this tally.

BSmith soft-claiming vig just now is influential.

See? Al Sips is the conceivable scum busser, but he voted earlier-on and overall is one of the lowest candidates for scum outside the mass of townies.

[Winston Hughes]

That's not the question you asked.

also something something stop being obsessed with yourself, something

You're being evasive. What's your read on me?

[Zack]

Yeah.



Barto's D3 reads. My POE in bolds.

Why would BSmith or Riedquat not be in your POE?

[Montmorency]

Why would BSmith or Riedquat not be in your POE?

Bsmith nothing, and for today he seems to be soft-claiming vig.

I town-read Riedquat a while ago.

[Zack]

You're being evasive. What's your read on me?

You've been annoying when I tried to talk to you about your read of me so I'm returning the favor.

I also want to know why you care all of a sudden.

[Zack]

Bsmith nothing, and for today he seems to be soft-claiming vig.

I town-read Riedquat a while ago.
Oh, right. I made a mental note not to mention that, with the side effect being I forgot it.

You town-read several people in your POE, that's not a good answer.

[Monstrdude]

Winston, what about Zack is making you scumread him so hard for so long?

[Montmorency]

Oh, right. I made a mental note not to mention that, with the side effect being I forgot it.

You town-read several people in your POE, that's not a good answer.

What, you and Visor? No, I marked Visor as deepscum should Cuth flip town since early D2. As for you, just a possibility. You've been null to me since D2. I've scumread Fenn's slot since D1. Winston and Schema i have at least sussed since D2, surely.

[Fenn]

What do you think of Visor, Zack, and Monty?

Let me get back to you on that. First thoughts without rereading are that Zack maybe improves a little from wanting to lynch Barto in addition to Cuth (who knows if he would heave kept that up) and being the target of Barto's accusations, Visor slides a little with his dicetosser vote - not weighing in on Cuth vs Barto - and Monty, idk.

[Winston Hughes]

You've been annoying when I tried to talk to you about your read of me so I'm returning the favor.

I also want to know why you care all of a sudden.

I never hesitated to give a read of you. Annoying or not, I was being honest.

And I care because I'm still trying to read you.

[Zack]

I never hesitated to give a read of you. Annoying or not, I was being honest.

And I care because I'm still trying to read you.

I'd probably need to re-read which I don't feel like doing right now, before giving a definitive read. From what little I saw when digging up that quote to throw in your face, you halfheartedly had Barto in your POE without really talking about him, choosing instead to tunnel me. Which isn't a good look.

Didn't seem to care before now.

[Winston Hughes]

Winston, what about Zack is making you scumread him so hard for so long?

I've been feeling similar about him as I felt about El Barto D1: that he's been using his meta schtick as a cover for anti-town behaviour (albeit far more successfully).

With El Barto flipping scum, the probability he's scum is reduced significantly I think, but he's nowhere near lock clear yet, which is why I'm trying to talk to him now.

[Zack]

Winston, what about Zack is making you scumread him so hard for so long?

"And this game I can follow your actions as more plausibly win-oriented if you're scum than if you're town."

[Zack]

I've been feeling similar about him as I felt about El Barto D1: that he's been using his meta schtick as a cover for anti-town behaviour (albeit far more successfully).

With El Barto flipping scum, the probability he's scum is reduced significantly I think, but he's nowhere near lock clear yet, which is why I'm trying to talk to him now.

meta schtick?

[Zack]

too many people I don't feel great about and don't feel like combing thread for stuff (yet). Woke up before noon today so I'm a bit slow.

biggest thing to look at is how people talked about choxorn and barto

and also how people delineated between barto/cuth

[Zack]

I don't think I really used that word correctly but you know what I mean.

[Winston Hughes]

I'd probably need to re-read which I don't feel like doing right now, before giving a definitive read. From what little I saw when digging up that quote to throw in your face, you halfheartedly had Barto in your POE without really talking about him, choosing instead to tunnel me. Which isn't a good look.

Didn't seem to care before now.

More evasion, plus a hint of shade for good measure.

I'm really trying to townread you here, Zack, but you're just giving me nothing.

I've been on your case for ages, so how the hell don't you have any kind of read on me for tone or anything?

[Zack]

seems like you're trying a lot harder to scumread me

you continue to just interpret everything I say in the worst way possible

Why didn't you care what I thought of you until now?

[Winston Hughes]

meta schtick?

The bad boy thing.

It's great cover for a lot of sins, town or scum.

[Zack]

wtf are you talking about

[Winston Hughes]

seems like you're trying a lot harder to scumread me

you continue to just interpret everything I say in the worst way possible

Why didn't you care what I thought of you until now?

My interest was piqued by the way you and Monty started the day.

The pair of you caught my attention at the start of yesterday as well.

Something about trying to expand the poe, maybe.

[Winston Hughes]

wtf are you talking about

This. Aggressive and confrontational. Dismissive and ridiculing.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not criticising the persona. I enjoy it.

It's just that I've seen you use it as scum. Like in that championship heat last year or that game on CFC where we were scum together.

What I'm trying to do here is see something more. Something you can't fake.

[Zack]

honestly can't think of a response to that post that isn't dismissive

[Monstrdude]

Zack, why did you think Cuth was a wolf?

[Zack]

Zack, why did you think Cuth was a wolf?

his early game was wolfy for him specifically and i never saw anything that convinced me otherwise

he's dead so if you want more detailed reads on a dead guy you can read my posts™

[BSmith]

No soft claim here. I made it pretty clear that we would deal with cuth and barto. I thought for sure we would lynch cuth and I'd kill barto but it worked out the other way around. It was also why I was asking who peoples second suspect was...

[Fenn]

Going back through D3 I see Zack being very firm on Barto being scum, BSmith breadcrumbing Vig on #2759/2760, Monstr asked me pointed questions in a post I completely missed (sorry!), and Monty throwing shade on Monstr over his Barto pushes on D2/D3.

In hindsight, Montmorency's repeated argument for lynching Cuth regardless of whether he was the scummiest should have bothered me more than it did. Even if you accept that he'd be on the block until lynched (not a guarantee IMO - I was starting to think he looked better by EoD3) you should try to lynch the guy you think is a wolf. Going for Cuth like that is an attempt to duck responsibility for a possible town flip.

[Zack]

Or is there another consensus target that would benefit being removed from the game?


My reads are pretty much the same as what I posted the other day. I don't have a full list all worked out, nor will I as I don't have the time and am mainly on mobile. I'll be at work Thursday/Friday this week amd should have some keyboard time then.

Outside of cuth or barto, who would you eliminate if you had the opportunity?


I dont need to answer that question for myself. :clown:

As for Fenn and Schema... I dont have a lean either way to be honest. Fenn seems much more active than Csargo, but otherwise their posts have gotten lost in all the noise for me.

Anyone able to do a tally for me? I have no sense of how the lynch is stacking up and who the alternatives/runners up might be.
not that i didn't believe your claim but yeah that's a true claim 99% of the time

dunno why you would claim though

[Fenn]

X-Post with BSmith. He almost has to be town if not counterclaimed, and maybe even if so.

[Winston Hughes]

No soft claim here. I made it pretty clear that we would deal with cuth and barto. I thought for sure we would lynch cuth and I'd kill barto but it worked out the other way around. It was also why I was asking who peoples second suspect was...

Where are your reads right now?

[Winston Hughes]

Let me get back to you on that. First thoughts without rereading are that Zack maybe improves a little from wanting to lynch Barto in addition to Cuth (who knows if he would heave kept that up) and being the target of Barto's accusations, Visor slides a little with his dicetosser vote - not weighing in on Cuth vs Barto - and Monty, idk.

Take your time, have a read, and get back to me with something more substantial on each of them. :bow:

[Zack]

I'd probably need to re-read which I don't feel like doing right now, before giving a definitive read. From what little I saw when digging up that quote to throw in your face, you halfheartedly had Barto in your POE without really talking about him, choosing instead to tunnel me. Which isn't a good look.

Didn't seem to care before now.


More evasion, plus a hint of shade for good measure.

I'm really trying to townread you here, Zack, but you're just giving me nothing.

I've been on your case for ages, so how the hell don't you have any kind of read on me for tone or anything?

--


Let me get back to you on that. First thoughts without rereading are that Zack maybe improves a little from wanting to lynch Barto in addition to Cuth (who knows if he would heave kept that up) and being the target of Barto's accusations, Visor slides a little with his dicetosser vote - not weighing in on Cuth vs Barto - and Monty, idk.


Take your time, have a read, and get back to me with something more substantial on each of them. :bow:

--

LOL

Vote: Winston Hughes

[Cass_]

:P Barto! GG Renata, thanks for being a rock, Cuth hi5 for effort under pressure <3


obviously cass is town with cuth's flip
o/

Atheotes claims the actual lynch of Barto though. Not sure what to make of that at present.


I would say visor should be catching a wolf or dying soon but his tone d1 was really good so I'm willing to let our differences on cuth slide

Winston is lock clear from Barto spew, less than 5% of the time that's w/w omgus from Barto

Zack looks good from Barto too I think, but I haven't done my reiso of Barto yet this is all just from memory

Re-reading, but of all Visor's D1 stuff I found the early/OTT Cuth push worst tone-wise? And IMO Visor moving off both wagons here to Dice looks pretty bad?

WRT Barto I think it's better to look at how other players progressed on him. AoRN I'm not trusting Winston's progression off Barto onto Zack.


Cass_

Because I mean well lol

Gotta redraw Districts anyway. Ideas on where you want to go?


I think I should focus on discovery from now on.

Please refer to following statement for D4 and possibly beyond:

A. One of Zack and Visor will be scum.
B. One of Al Sipsclar and Winston will be scum.
C. One of Fenn and Schema will be scum.

Flesh these out please?
Who do you think's most likely in each pair, and why?

[Jabbz]

I assume Cuth was a vig shot, no way scum kill him

That was the first thing I thought. Scum killing him would be such a waste from their perspective.

[Zack]

I thought visor's d1 was really pure

iirc he also talked about thinking all of the d1 candidates (chox/barto/cuth) were scum, should probably look into that

don't want to lynch him

[Montmorency]

Going back through D3 I see Zack being very firm on Barto being scum, BSmith breadcrumbing Vig on #2759/2760, Monstr asked me pointed questions in a post I completely missed (sorry!), and Monty throwing shade on Monstr over his Barto pushes on D2/D3.

In hindsight, Montmorency's repeated argument for lynching Cuth regardless of whether he was the scummiest should have bothered me more than it did. Even if you accept that he'd be on the block until lynched (not a guarantee IMO - I was starting to think he looked better by EoD3) you should try to lynch the guy you think is a wolf. Going for Cuth like that is an attempt to duck responsibility for a possible town flip.

But I didn't shade Monstr for Barto pushes, the opposite if anything. Monstr's actions hence directly contradicted the available case for a partnership, which I didn't uphold outside the moment where the thread got acrimonious.

You argued that Cuth should be lynched before Barto, for the record.


Flesh these out please?
Who do you think's most likely in each pair, and why?

Not sure I will ever be able to. Willing to try ISO on Winston.

Ride or die Fenn-Winston-Visor.

14 players - 3 districts. Recommend you, Monstr, and atheotes in separate districts: Rep candidates.

Vote: Winston

[Zack]

Try to draw the districts in a way that all districts will have a good townie rep and also having people who will actually elect that person

[Zack]

Monty why would you not think BSmith should be a rep

[Montmorency]

I thought visor's d1 was really pure

iirc he also talked about thinking all of the d1 candidates (chox/barto/cuth) were scum, should probably look into that

don't want to lynch him

Theories on GH/Cuth/Chox/Bart - two-for-two with one already flipped - don't necessarily look great. Works well enough as camo.

[Montmorency]

Monty why would you not think BSmith should be a rep

I only choose three, and those are the best candidates. BSmith, dice, and Jabbz can sub in I suppose, but as I already described earlier Cass, atheotes, and Monstr are the last elites standing.

[Zack]

Theories on GH/Cuth/Chox/Bart - two-for-two with one already flipped - don't necessarily look great. Works well enough as camo.
2/4 doesn't look good? seems like impossible standards

his style isn't to bus anyways, though with how chox and tak were playing i wouldn't rule bussing out

[Montmorency]

2/4 doesn't look good? seems like impossible standards

his style isn't to bus anyways, though with how chox and tak were playing i wouldn't rule bussing out

Let me be more precise. One scum is dead, so offering a trio of candidates (of whom one later flips scum, and the others town) is not particularly clearing. Whether it's scummy has to depend on other Deep-Wolf factors.

[Winston Hughes]

LOL

Vote: Winston Hughes

What, the inconsistency?

The fact that I've called you evasive for failing to give a read on me, but I've given Fenn a friendly nudge for giving only superficial reads on the people I asked him about?

The difference is that I've spent half the game poking you, and you have extensive knowledge of my meta, whereas Fenn joined the game late, and (afaik) has no meta on the players in question.

[Cass_]

his early game was wolfy for him specifically and i never saw anything that convinced me otherwise

he's dead so if you want more detailed reads on a dead guy you can read my posts™

Bold - afaict one of your main reasons was his push at Visor, which he, specifically, has done as Town?

[Zack]

Bold - afaict one of your main reasons was his push at Visor, which he, specifically, has done as Town?
pushing a specific person isn't alignment indicative in itself, it's how you do it. obviously.

[Cass_]

pushing a specific person isn't alignment indicative in itself, it's how you do it. obviously.

Ok. Work with me here. What was it about Cuth's early play that was specifically wolfy for him iyo?

[Zack]

Like I said to someone else, I already talked about this in the thread. If you want my reads on a dead guy, go find them. I'm not wasting my time on such a pointless inquiry.

[Winston Hughes]

AoRN I'm not trusting Winston's progression off Barto onto Zack.

I'm not progressing off Barto onto Zack. Barto's flip makes Zack look townier.

Zack's responses to me are the reason I'm still unable to escape the tunnel, try as I might.

I'm fully aware of the dangers of confirmation bias, and I am doing my best not to fall into that trap, which is why I'm not straight scumreading Zack for his evasion when I asked for his read on me. It's quite possible that I'm barking up the wrong tree, and it's simply Zack's personality that is tripping my scumdar.

But what I keep coming back to is that Zack is being way more touchy about people suspecting him - and way less willing to answer potentially revealing questions - than he ought to be as town.

[Visor]

Even if dice is a wolf, genuine apology to the rest of the village for me not voting Barto even though I thought he was a wolf. It's been a longstanding flaw of my town game that I tag someone as a wolf and then proceed to ignore them and look for other wolves instead of killing them.

So ya, apologies.

Cuth dying is okay, though after eb is confirmed his eod1 was probably too out of place to be a wolf (no point in what he did given wagons)

[Visor]

I do feel a little bit or pride that I didn't vote cuth though

[Cass_]

I'm not progressing off Barto onto Zack. Barto's flip makes Zack look townier.

Zack's responses to me are the reason I'm still unable to escape the tunnel, try as I might.

I'm fully aware of the dangers of confirmation bias, and I am doing my best not to fall into that trap, which is why I'm not straight scumreading Zack for his evasion when I asked for his read on me. It's quite possible that I'm barking up the wrong tree, and it's simply Zack's personality that is tripping my scumdar.

But what I keep coming back to is that Zack is being way more touchy about people suspecting him - and way less willing to answer potentially revealing questions - than he ought to be as town.

I get you on the Zack being touchy etc and it bugs me too/It's not an attitude that I ever find helpful for Town.

By not trusting your progression off Barto onto Zack, I mean D1 -> D2 though, where you voted Barto off the bat D1 and then moved off onto Zack D2. Continued to push Zack for 'bad boy' behaviour over Barto D3.

Zack has displayed that attitude previously as Town, his posting style and attitude changed, nothing Barto added to the thread was clearing, but you ?gave Barto the benefit of the doubt over Zack.

You say you don't hate the attitude, have you seen Zack play this way as Town?

[dicetosser1]

obviously cass is town with cuth's flip

why?




No soft claim here. I made it pretty clear that we would deal with cuth and barto. I thought for sure we would lynch cuth and I'd kill barto but it worked out the other way around. It was also why I was asking who peoples second suspect was...


did you even consider the view points of those strongly saying cuth was town? or was it already predetermined to be one of them?



Like I said to someone else, I already talked about this in the thread. If you want my reads on a dead guy, go find them. I'm not wasting my time on such a pointless inquiry.


ok thats twice. Zack whats with the attitude to being asked about your thoughts on a dead player? All it comes accross to me as is you not wanting people to dig into your vies on that play and that is scummy as.


Cass_ be happy im tinfoiling on you. Why arnt you dead?

[Winston Hughes]

By not trusting your progression off Barto onto Zack, I mean D1 -> D2 though, where you voted Barto off the bat D1 and then moved off onto Zack D2. Continued to push Zack for 'bad boy' behaviour over Barto D3.

Partly it was self doubt and my shitty ability to explain my reads, which form a negative feedback loop. I've spent this game not wanting to drive the lynch myself, because I know that I usually end up lynching town that way. My primary aim here has been to help build a solid town core, and beyond that to point it in the direction of people I find scummy, trusting that the others will correct for my failings and pick out the good parts from the random shite I blather.


Zack has displayed that attitude previously as Town, his posting style and attitude changed, nothing Barto added to the thread was clearing, but you ?gave Barto the benefit of the doubt over Zack.

Yeah, I went big game hunting. By the time I started suspecting Zack, I figured that if Tak was scum he was never getting out of the death spiral.


You say you don't hate the attitude, have you seen Zack play this way as Town?

I've seen Zack use a lot of the same moves as town.

[Visor]

Theories on GH/Cuth/Chox/Bart - two-for-two with one already flipped - don't necessarily look great. Works well enough as camo.

But I had them early and consistently so :shrug:

My reads list on D1 had in my strong wolves 2 wolves and Cuth

thats 3 wolves right there

[Montmorency]

But I had them early and consistently so :shrug:

My reads list on D1 had in my strong wolves 2 wolves and Cuth

thats 3 wolves right there

But Cuth wasn't scum. I think you're misunderstanding my comment or I'm misunderstanding your response. Or both.

[Visor]

But Cuth wasn't scum. I think you're misunderstanding my comment or I'm misunderstanding your response. Or both.

Before anyone had died in the game I had 3 strong wolves

2 were ACTUALLY wolves

1 of them was Cuth who a lot of other people thought was a wolf (and was wolfy)

[Visor]

so either I bussed my partners in thread unnecessarily and early

or I'm just town

[Montmorency]

Before anyone had died in the game I had 3 strong wolves

2 were ACTUALLY wolves

1 of them was Cuth who a lot of other people thought was a wolf (and was wolfy)

But hold on - I commented on this at SoD2. You had Choxorn as scum in your big reads list before exiting for the day, but it came right after Renata raised the issue, and you didn't add substance beyond agreeing that it looked bad for Choxorn. It's perfectly consistent with deep wolf camouflage.

What do you think of the proposition that one of you or Zack must be deep wolf?

[Visor]

But hold on - I commented on this at SoD2. You had Choxorn as scum in your big reads list before exiting for the day, but it came right after Renata raised the issue, and you didn't add substance beyond agreeing that it looked bad for Choxorn. It's perfectly consistent with deep wolf camouflage.

What do you think of the proposition that one of you or Zack must be deep wolf?

:shrug: not sure how I'm supposed to defend myself from doing townie things against the 'but you could just be a deep wolf'

I think thinking in terms like that is silly and I'd rather just lynch wolfy people.

[Winston Hughes]

What's your read on me, Visor?

[Visor]

What's your read on me, Visor?

I think mostly town, why?

[Winston Hughes]

I think mostly town, why?

Give me reasons.

[Visor]

Give me reasons.

I like your tone?

Its the same stuff I've talked about wrt you earlier.

If you're a wolf great, I'll deal with you later, right now I like your tone and process.

[Montmorency]

I think mostly town, why?

So about the same space as you had him in the EOD1 read, i.e.


Visor
Renata
Winston
Zack
Atheotes
Dicktosser
Schema
Dp101

[Visor]

So about the same space as you had him in the EOD1 read, i.e.

yes, thereabouts.

dicktosser LOL

sorry dice :P

the only thing I will point out is that WH is well aware that his paranoia gets him townread and he has definitely tried to abuse it as scum (and him picking a fight with Zack is certainly not out of his range). but paranoia is part of his town game too.

If you want me to take another look at you WH I can I suppose, but I don't really feel the need.

[Visor]

He's hit the right tonal notes, pushed the right people, worked well in thread. If he is scum its good work and there are people wolfier than him that need to be dealt with.

[Winston Hughes]

I like your tone?

Its the same stuff I've talked about wrt you earlier.

If you're a wolf great, I'll deal with you later, right now I like your tone and process.

So you still think I might be a wolf?

Is this just paranoia, or do you think I've just been kidding you all this time, and I'm really Professor Super Balls, whose special power is not giving a shit when he rands scum?

[Visor]

So you still think I might be a wolf?

Is this just paranoia, or do you think I've just been kidding you all this time, and I'm really Professor Super Balls, whose special power is not giving a shit when he rands scum?

anyone might still be a wolf

I just don't think you're likely to be one. I am town reading you.

If thats not good enough then i don't know what you want or expect from me

[Riedquat]

anyone might still be a wolf

I just don't think you're likely to be one. I am town reading you.

If thats not good enough then i don't know what you want or expect from me

A hunch?

[Winston Hughes]

Read me lock town, because I wouldn't have the balls to demand it of you if I was actually scum.

Only pizza can carry that shit off.

[Visor]

Read me lock town, because I wouldn't have the balls to demand it of you if I was actually scum.

Only pizza can carry that shit off.

Whats the difference here between townreading you and reading you lock town?

In terms of effect on the game, in terms of me?

[Winston Hughes]

Whats the difference here between townreading you and reading you lock town?

In terms of effect on the game, in terms of me?

Nothing. I'm just waxing lyrical on the truth.

[Visor]

So, where to next winston, who do you think should be lynched?

The next group of people anyway

we have at most 3 scum left imo

[Winston Hughes]

the only thing I will point out is that WH is well aware that his paranoia gets him townread and he has definitely tried to abuse it as scum (and him picking a fight with Zack is certainly not out of his range)

The beauty of that game is that I didn't try to abuse it at all.

When I came after you it was genuine scumhunting.

The paranoia was real. (https://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/2P7Lmhk8qkh)

[Montmorency]

yes, thereabouts.

dicktosser LOL

sorry dice :P

the only thing I will point out is that WH is well aware that his paranoia gets him townread and he has definitely tried to abuse it as scum (and him picking a fight with Zack is certainly not out of his range). but paranoia is part of his town game too.

If you want me to take another look at you WH I can I suppose, but I don't really feel the need.

Has WH been paranoid at all in this game? Other than claimed paranoia wrt Renata? In D1 he claimed that his paranoia has dropped off dramatically in either alignment, and that he is trying to be more methodical in this game.

Look, I'm working on that ISO, but it's really tough, It will come eventually.


He's hit the right tonal notes, pushed the right people, worked well in thread.

Tone I disagree, but for pushes - whom? Cuth? Early Barto? Hopefully you'll see this once the ISO goes up, but the amount of hedging in his reads - like, all of them in general - is extraordinary.


anyone might still be a wolf

:sadface:

Overall, I'm looking at scum Winston almost ensuring deepwolf Winston.

[Montmorency]

Overall, I'm looking at scum Winston almost ensuring deepwolf Winston.

I mean, scum Winston to scum Visor.

[Visor]

Has WH been paranoid at all in this game? Other than claimed paranoia wrt Renata? In D1 he claimed that his paranoia has dropped off dramatically in either alignment, and that he is trying to be more methodical in this game.

Look, I'm working on that ISO, but it's really tough, It will come eventually.


Tone I disagree, but for pushes - whom? Cuth? Early Barto? Hopefully you'll see this once the ISO goes up, but the amount of hedging in his reads - like, all of them in general - is extraordinary.



:sadface:

Overall, I'm looking at scum Winston almost ensuring deepwolf Winston.

Well, I'll keep an open mind, tag me when you post the ISO.

[Winston Hughes]

So, where to next winston, who do you think should be lynched?

The next group of people anyway

we have at most 3 scum left imo

I dunno.

You've been townie enough, but I think you might be able to fake it. Cuth showing up town is problematic.

Monty has been rambling a lot, and the choices he's made about where to push his suspicions have not rung true often enough, to the point where I feel like he's just pushing counter-town agendas.

Zack, I've said enough about.

Fenn stood out as a possible scummer when I reread last night, on a combination of tone and positioning.

Schema looked good to me on tone, but fell right into the scumzone on situational stuff.

Other people, I'm waiting to hear what they say this morning.

If I had to shoot one, the hero in me says Zack, but at a push I'd probably go Monty.

[Cass_]

Thinking:


District 1 (5)
Cass, Jabbz, Zack, Al Sips, Schema


District 2 (4)
BSmith, Winston, Visor, Riedquat


District 3 (5)
Atheotes, Monstr, Dice, (Csargo)Fenn, Monty

[Visor]

sketchballs in d1 so they have to elect you?

townies in d2 so its probably legit?

_the rest_ in d3?

[Winston Hughes]

Tone I disagree, but for pushes - whom? Cuth? Early Barto? Hopefully you'll see this once the ISO goes up, but the amount of hedging in his reads - like, all of them in general - is extraordinary.

I've been honest in my reads. I've tried not to overstate any reaction I've had, or to oversell any read I've arrived at.

If it really looks to you like I've been hedging, then I'd say you've managed to miss the whole point and drive of my posting in this game.