Representative Democracy [Concluded]

[Visor]

OoG: After D1, the problem with a game setup like this has become evident. Only certain people will ever get power, and most people are consigned to do nothing for a lot of the game.

[Renata]

well at least the few people who are soft-cleared and will continue to be elected are barely participating

This seems towny, I think? I had a similar moment recently.

[Montmorency]

OoG: After D1, the problem with a game setup like this has become evident. Only certain people will ever get power, and most people are consigned to do nothing for a lot of the game.

Do nothing but clutter the thread.

Case in point:


This is a public warning to cut down on the spam. Posts like the following:

Somehow, GH posting this increases my desire to shitpost dicetosser by claiming Scummacus. But I won't do it. Because I'm better than that.

[Renata]

Why BSmith? I know you haven't read much, but you have to give better reasons than that.

Vote: Al Sipsclar

I missed the minuscule bit of choxorn spew about Bsmith here. I think it's just opportunistic to place a vote (whether bussing or not), but eh. It's a thing.

Should check where Al has BSmith is his more recent reads list.

[Montmorency]

I missed the minuscule bit of choxorn spew about Bsmith here. I think it's just opportunistic to place a vote (whether bussing or not), but eh. It's a thing.

Should check where Al has BSmith is his more recent reads list.

Deep demographic. Shouldn't say much under any circumstances.


From town to scum:

Cass_
Renata
Dp101

atheotes
dicetosser1
Jabbz
Visor

Monstrbro
Zack
Winston

BSmith
CSargo
Riedquat

Monty
GH
El Barto
Schema
Cuthillius

[Renata]

I'll be honest, I'm half-tempted to vote for Monstrbro and/or Zack to be lynched simply because it will cut down on my reading time and perhaps allow half of the other players to get a word in, but the problem is that I just don't see their interactions, particularly Monstrbro's, as something that a mafioso could pull off. Especially with regards to volume.

As it appears Cuthilius is my main competition, even though I'm obviously not going to get elected district rep anytime soon, I'm just going to do the sensible thing here and

Vote: Cuthilius

There was probably a case on him at some point but I couldn't remember the finer details in the Black Hole of Calcutta that is... well... this entire game, basically.

Meh.

[Renata]

Deep demographic. Shouldn't say much under any circumstances.

A little unusually high given he apparently saw something negative about BSmith previously.

[Visor]

Hey Renata, who do you think is town outside of the (dp/ath/etc) grouping and scum reads?

[Montmorency]

A little unusually high given he apparently saw something negative about BSmith previously.

How's that? You mean the vote? That's the new D1 tradition between BSmith and Al Sips I believe, since the events of Futuramafia. They vote each other.

[Renata]

vote: gh

I guess? There's just no there there for me. He hasn't even tried to make a case, and that was the one thing I was able to read as genuine from him in last game, before I got led down the garden path into suspecting him. I don't want to believe it'd be that easy, but :shrug:.

I don't have a problem with cuthillius being today's lynch, but from my current position of privilege in not needing to give a flip about how I come off, I'll say it wouldn't shock me if he's a villager. Like, the Sooh progression is truly atrocious, but the Schema part of Visor's case was just plain wrong. Without meta on Cuth, I can't go past that point on someone who's not generally pinging me on tone.

[Renata]

How's that? You mean the vote? That's the new D1 tradition between BSmith and Al Sips I believe, since the events of Futuramafia. They vote each other.

Oh, ok. That makes more sense.

[Visor]

vote: gh

I guess? There's just no there there for me. He hasn't even tried to make a case, and that was the one thing I was able to read as genuine from him in last game, before I got led down the garden path into suspecting him. I don't want to believe it'd be that easy, but :shrug:.

I don't have a problem with cuthillius being today's lynch, but from my current position of privilege in not needing to give a flip about how I come off, I'll say it wouldn't shock me if he's a villager. Like, the Sooh progression is truly atrocious, but the Schema part of Visor's case was just plain wrong. Without meta on Cuth, I can't go past that point on someone who's not generally pinging me on tone.

Either seem fine to me.

(I still think his posts on Schema are bad even if they make more sense then they did before)

Opportunistic, etc.

I mean he town reads Schema for scum reading me, and then sheeps my read on Sooh despite scum reading me and me having dropped the read altogether for hours.

[Renata]

Hey Renata, who do you think is town outside of the (dp/ath/etc) grouping and scum reads?

I had a list yesterday. I'll find it. It's not too different from yours, mostly just some shifting around in the middle layers.

[Renata]

Either seem fine to me.

(I still think his posts on Schema are bad even if they make more sense then they did before)

Opportunistic, etc.

I mean he town reads Schema for scum reading me, and then sheeps my read on Sooh despite scum reading me and me having dropped the read altogether for hours.

Yeah, I know. Like I said the Sooh thing is atrocious.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Either seem fine to me.

(I still think his posts on Schema are bad even if they make more sense then they did before)

Opportunistic, etc.

I mean he town reads Schema for scum reading me, and then sheeps my read on Sooh despite scum reading me and me having dropped the read altogether for hours.

I want people to make a note of those who are pushing my lynch for "not making a case" and yet totally giving people like Csargo/Al Sips/Riedquat etc. a pass when the only difference seems to be that I'm at least posting more. I'm pretty sure at least one of the people on my wagon, especially those who are using this logic, are scum looking for an easy victim.

[GeneralHankerchief]

I want people to make a note of those who are pushing my lynch for "not making a case" and yet totally giving people like Csargo/Al Sips/Riedquat etc. a pass when the only difference seems to be that I'm at least posting more. I'm pretty sure at least one of the people on my wagon, especially those who are using this logic, are scum looking for an easy victim.

This was supposed to quote Renata's vote of me and not the Visor post, apologies.

[Cass_]

So you're saying you'll tunnel me until I die?


i'm saying i'm aiming for your lynch today

Cuth, of your whole push on Sooh that I saw, this is the part I really have trouble seeing fit in a possi-Towny mindset.

I don't agree with pushing claimed PRs D1, but if you had a really strong feeling she was Scum, Ok.

BUT then why only aim for her lynch D1? Why not tunnel her to death? Explain the logic/what you were thinking/what would have changed for you if she'd survived?

[Renata]

My previous reads list. Move dicetosser up above Jabbz, Zack up a couple slots maybe?, Schema down a couple mostly by virtue of not having anything towny to add since day one.

Oh, move monstrbro up some, but there's still that one post with regards to choxorn that really bugs. I'll see if I can find it.


Just some very basic sorting to see where we stand.

seemingly consensus village

Renata
Cass
Dp
atheotes

personally I like:

Jabbz
Winston

Lots to go on but fear they could fool me:
Visor?
Schema?

Little to go on but nothing's alarming me:
dicetosser1

Confusing as heck
Montmorency

Dubious for tunnel on Jabbz?
Zack

Ought to be townier
GH

Iffy:

Cuthilius
Monstrbro

Damn near nothing to go on at all; these are why you know I'm not the vig:

BSmith
Csargo
Riedquat
El Barto
Al Sipsclar


Individual categories not sorted.

[Monstrdude]

My previous reads list. Move dicetosser up above Jabbz, Zack up a couple slots maybe?, Schema down a couple mostly by virtue of not having anything towny to add since day one.

Oh, move monstrbro up some, but there's still that one post with regards to choxorn that really bugs. I'll see if I can find it.

I've already posted exactly what it says twice in the thread

I cleared him barely early d1

I have no shame for that. NONE AND YOU CAN'T MAKE ME FEEL ANY

[Renata]

I want people to make a note of those who are pushing my lynch for "not making a case" and yet totally giving people like Csargo/Al Sips/Riedquat etc. a pass when the only difference seems to be that I'm at least posting more. I'm pretty sure at least one of the people on my wagon, especially those who are using this logic, are scum looking for an easy victim.

If you're a villager, sure. Who are these people (besides me)? Why wouldn't you be keeping a list yourself?

I don't know what to do with the non-poster crowd. Unless they make a mistake like choxorn did there's usually nothing to go on. I was hoping for a vig, but there's no sign of one.

[Monstrdude]

If you're a villager, sure. Who are these people (besides me)? Why wouldn't you be keeping a list yourself?

I don't know what to do with the non-poster crowd. Unless they make a mistake like choxorn did there's usually nothing to go on. I was hoping for a vig, but there's no sign of one.

Pretty much the second paragraph sums up my thoughts on them

[Monstrdude]

I mean I kinda felt like there wasn't gonna be a vig given the setup but still

[Monstrdude]

I mean, strictly speaking though if we aren't careful about inactives we will drown in them later in the game

[Monstrdude]

Hankerchief's post about suspecting the people on his wagon is something that lines up with how a villager should act when their wagon starts to pile up but its nothing a competent scum can't do

I've seen glimpses of a villager here and there GH but if you are one I need that one moment that makes me go "yep that's a villager" and I just haven't had one yet

If you are a villager it's me more than it's you, but you haven't exactly given anyone a reason to townread you like just talk about specific people for a bit and interact with me if we can ever find the chance

A big way I get my reads in this game is by constantly interacting with players in hopes of fostering responses that scum are generally incapable of making so

[Renata]

Bold does not compute as possible consecutive thoughts in a post and looks fake. Content is also much more generic reads-y than I remember of town-chox from last game. Wouldn't mind seeing a vote or three on you right now.


Yes. If you've just spent the last couple hours catching up, since when is your first thought when you finally get around to posting, "oh shit I forgot the game started".


Why would it have to be the first thought to be included? Writing doesn't work the same way as connected speech.

Um, Montmorency, why'd you leave this out of your summary on choxorn at start of day? You totally defended him from mean old me.

[Montmorency]

I mean, strictly speaking though if we aren't careful about inactives we will drown in them later in the game

Or they will have breathing space to be active.

[Cass_]

how do people itt right now feel about barto

i'd like us to consolidate

Cuth, why ask people to consolidate on him, but not Chox, who was in a similar position?

At the time you posted this, where were you leaning with Barto and where are you at with him now?

[Renata]

Bold does not compute as possible consecutive thoughts in a post and looks fake. Content is also much more generic reads-y than I remember of town-chox from last game. Wouldn't mind seeing a vote or three on you right now.


Why would it have to be the first thought to be included? Writing doesn't work the same way as connected speech.


Yes. If you've just spent the last couple hours catching up, since when is your first thought when you finally get around to posting, "oh shit I forgot the game started".

Ah, screw multiquote on this site. That's out of order.. I think there were two comments from Monty, but you get the idea. He picked on my thinking choxorn's wording looked fake, and ignored the other half of my argument.

[Montmorency]

Um, Montmorency, why'd you leave this out of your summary on choxorn at start of day? You totally defended him from mean old me.

Well yeah, that's me. I stand by it. Your case looked better with Choxorn's original early-day post in context, but I didn't recall it at the time and to speak of it now from retrospect isn't useful.

I was wrong. :/

[Monstrdude]

Or they will have breathing space to be active.

I GUESS

I've been trying to post less but it's hard for me. This will be my last post for a few hours because I really do want other people to be able to say things

[Montmorency]

Ah, screw multiquote on this site. That's out of order.. I think there were two comments from Monty, but you get the idea. He picked on my thinking choxorn's wording looked fake, and ignored the other half of my argument.

I saw something to take issue with. I don't really care about most of the casework people do. If there's something in particular that I can have a thought about, I speak up.

[Renata]

Or they will have breathing space to be active.

There was breathing space last game but nobody on that list ever got active.

[Renata]

Well yeah, that's me. I stand by it. Your case looked better with Choxorn's original early-day post in context, but I didn't recall it at the time and to speak of it now from retrospect isn't useful.

I was wrong. :/

You didn't recall it? I'm asking why you didn't include yourself in the big choxorn related post you made at start of day. You dragged out quotes from everybody who ever said a word about him but left out yourself. Why did you make that choice?

[Montmorency]

There was breathing space last game but nobody on that list ever got active.

They did? They didn't post up a storm, but in our culture that's active. It's only this past year of Org revival that more than 10 posts per player per game has become the norm.

[Montmorency]

You didn't recall it? I'm asking why you didn't include yourself in the big choxorn related post you made at start of day. You dragged out quotes from everybody who ever said a word about him but left out yourself. Why did you make that choice?

Because it isn't important to me.

[Monstrdude]

All of you should come hang out at vgf mafia or vice versa because over there we go like 50 posts per player per game so even a large game would be kinda low volume (I am ldo the exception)

[Visor]

Cuth, why ask people to consolidate on him, but not Chox, who was in a similar position?

At the time you posted this, where were you leaning with Barto and where are you at with him now?
Cuthillius

though I already pointed this out to him when he was around and got no reply

[GeneralHankerchief]

This appears to be the CONSENSUS READS LIST and not my own:

Cleared by D1
Cass
Dp101
Renata
atheotes

Good vibes
Monstrbro
Winston
Visor
Jabbz

Slightly less good vibes
Zack
Schema
dicetosser

Monty
Monty

Low posters
Csargo
Al Sipsclar
Riedquat
BSmith

Lynchbait
El Barto
GH
Cuthilius

Let's assume four scum. I think, contrary to popular belief, we're going to find at least one in some of the upper categories. Not the topmost obviously, unless there was a serious error in thought during the late stages of D1, but I'm guessing 1-2 in the combined "vibes" categories plus Monty, 1 in the low posters, and 1 in the lynchbait. The reason for this is simple: it's never that easy, and the consensus is never 100% accurate.

If the situation does look to be as rosy for town as it appears, then I'd pin down Schema as a possible maf that's higher up the reads list. Her(?) D2 has shown some warning signs:


I'm campaigning for District 1 today.

Vote: Schema

And great call, Cass, choosing Dp's vote. Best choice based on EOD.

This was never properly explained and Schema instead in future posts went with the handwave defenses of "for now" and "I have reasons".

There is a decent amount of "I'm not scum partners with Cuth" and attacks on Cuth, which could strike me as a maf doing a partial deflection because she perceives the town as attacking the right target but for the wrong reasons. I don't think it's likely that Schema and Cuth are m/m but if Cuth is the lynch and flips town... well.


Tbh I'm pretty half-hearted about this game rn.

Only a townie idiot votes herself rep with a likely town Dp up for candidacy, blah blah.

Vote: Dp101

Not sure how I feel on the Cuth >> GH lynch vote. Would like to hear from Zack as to why GH isn't a priority for him, since I'm assuming he has some meta to go off.
Monstrbro, I believe you asked me my thoughts on Winston? I had iffy feels early in the game but he got townier for me. I haven't seen most of his D2 contributions though so I'll run le iso there today.

Tone feels somewhat off for me (don't like the first paragraph/sentence especially) but this could just be a lack of familiarity with her meta.

Bottom line is though that if the PoE is working but isn't 100% I'm probably shooting Schema.

~~~~~~~~~~

This is a little unorthodox, but I would also not complain if one of the extremely high posters was lynched today (I guess Cuth would count for this as well) just to allow the thread to breathe a bit and see if it makes things any more appealing for the low posters to offer their thoughts without them. If they start being able to contribute, great. If not, we should probably start sharpening our scythes or otherwise it will be as Monstrbro said in 1773.

[Renata]

My conversation with Montmorency over choxorn in full and in order.


Why is that? Are you drawing some inference between



and



If so, that seems perfectly "natural" to me.


Yes. If you've just spent the last couple hours catching up, since when is your first thought when you finally get around to posting, "oh shit I forgot the game started".


Why would it have to be the first thought to be included? Writing doesn't work the same way as connected speech.



Fine. Compare this first post to choxorn's output in Visor's game and tell me what you think.


I don't get you. Half his posts were fluff, most of the rest declaiming Riedquat, and a bit of content venturing one or two other players. This was over a dozen posts or fewer, in two day phases.

If you are trying to say that he's making too much of an effort in this game at appearing engaged - which you don't seem to be - then even so the posts thus far have been nothing.


That was in fact my contention. Post a few reads and leave choxorn is dubious to me.

[Monstrdude]

That was a pretty good post, GH

Villagey, even

[Monstrdude]

I think the consensus bottom tier is at best 2/3 scum, and likely 1/3

[Monstrdude]

I mean, even going into the low poster I just don't really believe that those bottom 7 players contain all the remaining wolves. It's that easy like 5% of the time in this game

[Montmorency]

GH I think consensus would exchange dicetosser and Jabbz in their categories. Nothing but kind words toward dice so far.

[Riedquat]

You're not the only one behind. Hello.

Why vote Winston?

Winston Hughes
BSmith
Visor
Csargo
Riedquat
El Barto
Monstrbro

First on the list, wanted the post yesterday and seems town to me, together with Monstrbro, Visor in third place and I must say Barto in fourth! The rest, a bunch of scummy lurking people, I'm included of course!

[GeneralHankerchief]

GH I think consensus would exchange dicetosser and Jabbz in their categories. Nothing but kind words toward dice so far.

I won't fight you on that, I remember pretty much only Zack beating the drum about Jabbz getting townread and him openly wondering why there's not more suspicion towards him, so that's what caused me to put Jabbz in the upper vibes tier.


I mean, even going into the low poster I just don't really believe that those bottom 7 players contain all the remaining wolves. It's that easy like 5% of the time in this game

Precisely.

[Renata]

Serious post indicating some level of reading the OP



"OMG when did the game start?"

???


Actually I think that's a reading comprehension fail on my part. Anyway, the biggest thing here I can note is that the district vote on cuth seems like it's w/w if choxorn is a wolf but meaningless if villager

Three posts don't seem particularly alignment indicative but if anything I think the way he's approaching certain people like echoing Zack's sentiment just flow really well so if anything I guess lightly villagery but only barely


You have nothing else to say about the thread?

Monstr's choxorn related posts near end of day one. I'm feeling a bit better about him now. Originally the second quote felt hinky, but in combination with the first ("Huh"? then "oh, never mind") it feels more genuine. Anyway, not lynching here today.

[Renata]

Monstrbro, you were wholly against cuth's lynch yesterday, repeatedly calling him a villager and so on. Where are you at today and who are you voting for?

[GeneralHankerchief]

So let's say my "consensus PoE isn't correct, jump around the categories" theory wins the day. Shot in the dark, I need to pick out four scum right now, in order:

Cuthilius - wait for flip
> if town, Schema
> if scum, Jabbz
Riedquat, for the hell of it
Jabbs if not already shot, Barto if Jabbz isn't an option

And then Askthepizzaguy to be totally safe.

[Renata]

Because it isn't important to me.

Don't you think it's misleading to others?

[Montmorency]

Don't you think it's misleading to others?

Eh, but it was pretty much contained between us. It doesn't reflect on others, certainly not on Visor whom I had foremost on my mind when putting the post together.

GH, I don't quite understand why Cuth-scum flip makes town Schema likely. Or more than null?

[GeneralHankerchief]

GH, I don't quite understand why Cuth-scum flip makes town Schema likely. Or more than null?

I think when Schema was taking heat earlier she was doth protesting too much about a possible M/M linkage between her and Cuth. Struck me as one of those "partially true" defenses.

[Montmorency]

There is a decent amount of "I'm not scum partners with Cuth" and attacks on Cuth, which could strike me as a maf doing a partial deflection because she perceives the town as attacking the right target but for the wrong reasons. I don't think it's likely that Schema and Cuth are m/m but if Cuth is the lynch and flips town... well.


To be more specific, why do you (GH) dismiss the bold, and why does it look like Schema-scum if Cuth is town? What exactly is your relational argument here for opposite alignment, since the relation seems to be the focus?

Why isn't it a wash, either?

[Renata]

GH, would still like you to follow up on your assertion that somebody's who's voting you while ignoring the lower tier of posters is scum. Who is it and why?

[GeneralHankerchief]

GH, would still like you to follow up on your assertion that somebody's who's voting you while ignoring the lower tier of posters is scum. Who is it and why?

Going by Monty's tally near the top of Page 59, it looks like my current voters thusfar are you, Monstrbro, and Cuth (I could have sworn that there were more but I guess you always assume the outlook's worse for you than it actually is when votes are staring you in the face). Of the three I don't really see you or Monstrbro being scum so I guess it would be Cuth, but I was speaking more of the general concept.

[Monstrdude]

Monstrbro, you were wholly against cuth's lynch yesterday, repeatedly calling him a villager and so on. Where are you at today and who are you voting for?

I'm voting for GH right now

I still kinda think cuth is a villager. I've done exactly the same stuff as him before in exactly the same position. The problem is that it seems like so much of the thread wants him dead that my voice doesn't really matter so I don't really know how to approach the situation. I mean, even if he's a villager that continues to survive he will just be a wagon again tomorrow 9/10 times so I'm not really sure my opinion matters

[Renata]

Montmorency:

I mean, here's your post. You represent it at the outset as being explicitly about "the choxorn affair", and then you talk about everybody involved except yourself. The focus on Visor doesn't come until later.


From yesterday's events we have hard-cleared Renata, Cass, DP101, and (nearly-so) atheotes. They are inarguably the towniest players now.

Let's talk about the Choxorn affair in its sequence:

Early game vote for Zack.



Later entry, with town reads on Renata, Cuth, and GH, expressing agreement with Zack on subject of role claims.



Final post for the time, a comment on Jabbz' posting.



Renata makes her negative assessment of Choxorn's entry (835).

Immediately after, Visor joins in condemning the Choxorn post.



A few minutes later, he posts a comprehensive reads/leans list, marking Renata as lock town for her drawing attention to Choxorn, and making his own read on Choxorn as "wolfy". He puts Choxorn as lynch candidate above only Cuthilius and El Barto. One of his reads is a frivolous comment on Riedquat.



Then Visor makes an addendum to his reads post, for little value. With Riedquat having only one post at the time, there was no point in speaking like this of him, giving leans. "Possibly town" on a hunch???

"Need a few flips" to feel comfortable with reads is unimpressive in itself, all the more so when he had no problem with discomfort throughout the day or immediately prior to this post.



Atheotes remarks that Renata is trending up for her Choxorn case.

Winston finds Renata's flow towny. Winston responds to one of Choxorn's posts with a complaint.



Jabbz responds to Choxorn's lament on textwalls, sticking to his disappointment with Zack.



Cass' notes on Choxorn's main post~.



Monstrbro thinks Renata is town.



Monstrbro comments on Cuth-Chox. Choxorn evaluated overall as barely villagery.




Atheotes votes Choxorn.

Sooh's attack on atheotes gets well underway. This casts a small shadow over her. Renata, Zack, and others defend atheotes. Cuthilius is willing to vote Renata for rep over DP101 as more reliable or robust (999).

Cuthilius finds Renata's reads on Monstrbro towny (991).

Schema sees Renata trending up and acknowledges Choxorn's posts, asks for meta on him.



Schema takes full scum lean on Visor.



Cuth speculates on how scumChox votes. Switches back to voting Sooh shortly after.



DP comes in to put himself up for the Rep position and votes Choxorn (1025)

Sooh finally votes atheotes after this, looks to win the position of District Rep (1047).

Schema likes Sooh and doesn't like Atheotes.



Schema votes Renata for rep (1123).

On page 39, Bsmith changes rep vote to Visor ("to test double vote") and Sooh changes rep vote to Zack.

Atheotes petitions Cass on the lynch.



Sooh hardclaims Watcher (1170).

Chox substantively closes the day by showing up EOD to vote Al Sipsclar, who a bit earlier appeared to make ritual-vote on BSmith and said little else (1175).

All of this looks clearing for DP, Cass, and Renata, and overwhelming in favor of Atheotes on top of previous behavior. But rather than assessing others in relation to them, right now the focus is on how Visor relates to it.


Visor's tone changes notably in his final activity of the day, which comes right after Renata opens the case on Choxorn. His claimed double-vote never manifests. Strikingly, he makes numerous pleas toward prospective Reps to vote Cuth with him. This is striking because even one (of the two other) reps voting with Visor would conceal any double vote effect should it exist, since 2-1 is indistinguishable on our part from 3-1: the result is the same. His calls for consolidation were just meant to erect a front that would give him a pass from putting up.


I'd also like to broach what I was hinting at earlier respecting the claim. Look here at Visor's comment just prior to Chox events that



This is in other words a statement that he would not use his power on D2, toward the end of avoiding a burnout. I think his statement reflects the broader mechanical truth that Pizza would never grant a player, town or Mafia, an unlimited double vote. It could conceivably be more than a one-shot, but at best it would have an alternate-day effect. Visor was laying ground to avert consequences from future inconsistencies, without admitting details of the power. Since Visor went inactive before EOD, and DP had not voted Choxorn yet, and District 1 was still up in the air between Renata, Cuth, and DP, there is no argument that Visor is cleared by virtue of not taking action to save Choxorn, who anyway was killed by tiebreaker ability.
One of Cuth or Visor must be scum, opposite alignment. Who Cuth is in turn sheds light on Sooh, since Cuth was one of the few to carry a renewed push against Sooh late in the day. There is also a technical scenario in which Visor and Cuth were furiously bussing, and Visor never planned to apply special powers to lynch him. However, most players do not like the strategy of intense bussing from D1, and regardless it does not lessen the need to lynch Visor.

EDIT: Sooh is town, as we now know. Pending...

[Cass_]

Montmorency

Please link me to your two most recent Town and your two most recent Scum games.

Sincerely,

Madame Chancellor

[Monstrdude]

If anything, I can see the case against cuth because of all my posts earlier today about how he was fighting for sooh to get lynched once the potential wagons became him and choxorn

He didn't seem too enthused about it before then and the switch from sooh came out of nowhere, so him doing it to save himself and a bro from lynch does fit.

If he is a wolf I'm certain barto is a villager, and probably vice versa?

They can still both be villagers too

Cuth wolf flip clears visor/zack 100% pretty much too but if he's a villager i can't really see any benefit from deadding him. No one looks particularly bad from it except MAYBE visor and we don't get much information

Also I am having trouble finding a viable wagon I believe in. I probably just need to get good

[Renata]

vote: Montmorency

I mean, I'm not even sure it makes wolfy sense to brazenly just leave your own interactions with the flipped mafia out of a post that purports to be about interactions with the flipped mafia ,but come on this isn't right.

If I'm over-reacting, fine.

[Montmorency]

Montmorency:

I mean, here's your post. You represent it at the outset as being explicitly about "the choxorn affair", and then you talk about everybody involved except yourself. The focus on Visor doesn't come until later.



It's not comprehensive. Frankly, the exchange between you and me had no bearing on how players related to Choxorn and how that in turn could relate to Visor.

[GeneralHankerchief]

To be more specific, why do you (GH) dismiss the bold, and why does it look like Schema-scum if Cuth is town? What exactly is your relational argument here for opposite alignment, since the relation seems to be the focus?

Why isn't it a wash, either?

Let me clear up the bolded sentence you quoted.

(This is a universe where Schema is maf but Cuth is town)

The sequence of votes is that Cuth has votes and Schema's taking some heat.
Schema sees, whether real or imagined, people linking her to Cuth.
Schema wants to defend this, makes a couple of posts saying the link to her and Cuth is off base.
Partial defenses always ring truer than entirely fabricated defenses, Schema takes the tactic that "we can't be M/M because X Y and Z", that part she mostly focuses on is her affiliation with Cuth, that's not a lie (they're not M/M together) so all's good.

~~~~~~

In a universe where Cuth *is* scum then Schema's stated defense makes sense and I don't see them being mafia together.

[Monstrdude]

I really have no idea what to make of Montmorency

He's probably a villager If visor is a wolf and could be (?) A wolf if visor is a villager

I think you should make a reads list monty

[Renata]

Going by Monty's tally near the top of Page 59, it looks like my current voters thusfar are you, Monstrbro, and Cuth (I could have sworn that there were more but I guess you always assume the outlook's worse for you than it actually is when votes are staring you in the face). Of the three I don't really see you or Monstrbro being scum so I guess it would be Cuth, but I was speaking more of the general concept.

So you were just warning people off from voting you in general, lest they look scummy for it? :inquisitive:

Eh.

[Cass_]

Actually,

@ Everybody


OFFICIAL ORDER OF CHANCELLORY BUSINESS

----- Please provide links to ISO's for your two most recent Town and your two most recent Scum games -----

Your applications for residence in this Town will be judged accordingly.

Cheers and thank you.

Madame Chancellor,

On behalf of all of those here who are not Wolfy.

[Montmorency]

Montmorency

Please link me to your two most recent Town and your two most recent Scum games.

Sincerely,

Madame Chancellor

Lol, OK.

Town: This one.
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152222-Tokens-of-My-Confection-Concluded


Scum: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287-Visor-s-Small-Mafia-Game-Concluded
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152111-Futuramafia-Concluded

[GeneralHankerchief]

So you were just warning people off from voting you in general, lest they look scummy for it? :inquisitive:

Eh.

Stop oversimplifying, you know I've taken a lot more heat in this round than simply getting 2-3 votes.

[Cass_]

I really have no idea what to make of Montmorency

He's probably a villager If visor is a wolf and could be (?) A wolf if visor is a villager

I think you should make a reads list monty

What about of his own accord?

[Monstrdude]

Actually,

@ Everybody


OFFICIAL ORDER OF CHANCELLORY BUSINESS

----- Please provide links to ISO's for your two most recent Town and your two most recent Scum games -----

Your applications for residence in this Town will be judged accordingly.

Cheers and thank you.

Madame Chancellor,

On behalf of all of those here who are not Wolfy.

I'm on phone so not gonna happen

Heroes mash on MU most recent scum

South Park mash on PoG best scum ever

Dragon Age mishmash on pog most recent villager game

And then idk check an mu game or something the database is easy to find. Internet life is probably a good one to look at I posted a lot and was really villagery iirc

[Renata]

It's not comprehensive. Frankly, the exchange between you and me had no bearing on how players related to Choxorn and how that in turn could relate to Visor.

Get off it? :shrug:

[Monstrdude]

What about of his own accord?

He can do what he wants

It was a suggestion jeez

[Montmorency]

GH: OK, but I don't really see the weight.


I think you should make a reads list monty

I don't have anything to add there, so here's something from notes:

Town: DP101, Cass, Renata, atheotes
Lean Town: Jabbz, Monstrbro
Null: Dice, Winston, El Barto, Sooh, Visor
Lean Scum: Schema, GH, Cuth
Little: BSmith, riedquat, Csargo, Al Sipsclar,

[Cass_]

Lol, OK.

Town: This one.
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152222-Tokens-of-My-Confection-Concluded


Scum: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287-Visor-s-Small-Mafia-Game-Concluded
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152111-Futuramafia-Concluded


Thank you
Two of each please


This is part of how I'll be making decisions between tied votes each round so it saves me a lot of time if everyone just has links in their ISO here pls.

[Montmorency]

Get off it? :shrug:

Is that directed to me, or is it backhanded?

[Visor]

Actually,

@ Everybody


OFFICIAL ORDER OF CHANCELLORY BUSINESS

----- Please provide links to ISO's for your two most recent Town and your two most recent Scum games -----

Your applications for residence in this Town will be judged accordingly.

Cheers and thank you.

Madame Chancellor,

On behalf of all of those here who are not Wolfy.

nope

glgl

[GeneralHankerchief]

I don't have anything to add there, so here's something from notes:

Town: DP101, Cass, Renata, atheotes
Lean Town: Jabbz, Monstrbro
Null: Dice, Winston, El Barto, Sooh, Visor
Lean Scum: Schema, GH, Cuth
Little: BSmith, riedquat, Csargo, Al Sipsclar,

How/why does your opinion of dicetosser differ with dice's position in the town consensus meta, as per here:


GH I think consensus would exchange dicetosser and Jabbz in their categories. Nothing but kind words toward dice so far.

?

[Montmorency]

How/why does your opinion of dicetosser differ with dice's position in the town consensus meta, as per here:

Most who expressed a towny vibe for dice got that from his vociferous semantic opposition to my claiming that some players are "clear" or "lock town", and so on.

Could be bias but I don't see it the same way.

[Montmorency]

Small OOC request: Don't make mentions of me in your posts when you know I'm right here.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Actually,

@ Everybody


OFFICIAL ORDER OF CHANCELLORY BUSINESS

----- Please provide links to ISO's for your two most recent Town and your two most recent Scum games -----

Your applications for residence in this Town will be judged accordingly.

Cheers and thank you.

Madame Chancellor,

On behalf of all of those here who are not Wolfy.

Vote: Mutiny

[Renata]

Ooh, homework! Cass_

Cass, I haven't drawn a wolf role in five years. Here's one game I bookmarked from Straight Dope a few weeks ago when I anticipated getting questions like this. I have no idea if it's representative of how I'd play today; I suspect that in at least some ways it's not. But it's all I have. http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=605595&highlight=mafia I'm playing as "Normal Phase". It's a win in F5, no iso because the site doesn't support it.

Town roles:
Cereal Killers on MU, dead night one as Jailkeeper, boo. Game is still ongoing. http://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/search.php?searchid=683808
Visor's Small Mafia game, here. Lost in F6 LYLO. You'll only get the most recent 100 posts. https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/search.php?searchid=2069706
And just because I have to put in something successful, Looney Tunes Alias on MU, win as Mason, survived. My alias was "Granny". http://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/search.php?searchid=683813

Not sure what you plan to do with all of this, but gl!

[Riedquat]

Riedquat, for the hell of it

:laugh4: I do agree!

[Renata]

Vote: Mutiny

Win, but I'm way too much of a teacher's pet to support you in this GH.

[Cass_]

He can do what he wants

It was a suggestion jeez

<3 and :P

Connective suggestions/analyses are awesome and insightful as to possibilities, but they don't really give me your opinion/require you to give an actual opinion on a particular player's alignment at the time.

This approach is either:

Towny cos you're trying to see how everything may fit (but it's dangerous cos lol connective-tinfoil-ahead-of-flips-and-time(I-so-hate-that-I-always-fall-into-this-trap-as-well); or

Scummy cos it helps make it look like you're working without pinning you down to a connection between you and said player at a given time.

At this point I have no idea which. Your ISO is huge and scary and full of things like that, silly pokester-always-poking-maybe-never-pushing.

If you're a wolf I want to catch you. If you're Villager I want to have those AHA! moments that you're Town.

I don't care if you hunt for Villagers more, I know that's your style. Just read his ISO and tell me if you'd want him in your Town core, or if he's someone you're not comfortable with and are leaving outside.

Mont/other players in contention could end up flipping this phase.

Unless I have your actual read of them on record I can't judge your stance of them retrospectively.

Even if you can't make a decision on a player's whole alignment, give me post-specific alignment reads. "This post Towny because (insert what you're thinking about the matter)...." "This post Scummy because (insert what you're thinking about the matter)...."

Pretty please.

[Monstrdude]

<3 and :P

Connective suggestions/analyses are awesome and insightful as to possibilities, but they don't really give me your opinion/require you to give an actual opinion on a particular player's alignment at the time.

This approach is either:

Towny cos you're trying to see how everything may fit (but it's dangerous cos lol connective-tinfoil-ahead-of-flips-and-time(I-so-hate-that-I-always-fall-into-this-trap-as-well); or

Scummy cos it helps make it look like you're working without pinning you down to a connection between you and said player at a given time.

At this point I have no idea which. Your ISO is huge and scary and full of things like that, silly pokester-always-poking-maybe-never-pushing.

If you're a wolf I want to catch you. If you're Villager I want to have those AHA! moments that you're Town.

I don't care if you hunt for Villagers more, I know that's your style. Just read his ISO and tell me if you'd want him in your Town core, or if he's someone you're not comfortable with and are leaving outside.

Mont/other players in contention could end up flipping this phase.

Unless I have your actual read of them on record I can't judge your stance of them retrospectively.

Even if you can't make a decision on a player's whole alignment, give me post-specific alignment reads. "This post Towny because (insert what you're thinking about the matter)...." "This post Scummy because (insert what you're thinking about the matter)...."

Pretty please.

I've done that for several players

For claiming to iso me that's a big oversight

[Montmorency]

Mont/other players in contention could end up flipping this phase.


Nooo

Renata, most of your ISO links are broken btw.

[Renata]

Is that directed to me, or is it backhanded?

Directed at you. I don't know if you glossing over your own questioning of my vote on choxorn is something a wolf is more likely to do or not, to be honest -- the motive is obvious; the benefit if caught at it is not -- but it offends my sense of 'all cards on the table' townieness.

[Monstrdude]

Also thats a huge post to just tell me to iso Monty

Is it really necessary to use all those words to say you don't like that I have a player in the null category and then throw baseless shade at me?

[Renata]

Nooo

Renata, most of your ISO links are broken btw.

Huh. Maybe MU doesn't support that? At any rate, all games are very recent and here/MU (under custom games), so easy to find.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Huh. Maybe MU doesn't support that? At any rate, all games are very recent and here/MU (under custom games), so easy to find.

The .Org's software won't link you to past searches, you have to do the searching yourself.

[Montmorency]

Unless I have your actual read of them on record I can't judge your stance of them retrospectively.

Even if you can't make a decision on a player's whole alignment, give me post-specific alignment reads. "This post Towny because (insert what you're thinking about the matter)...." "This post Scummy because (insert what you're thinking about the matter)...."

I am authorizing partial release of my notes pursuant to this query.

Just for D2, mind you.

Town: Monstr calls Monty always villa; Monstr says Visor/Winston never w/w; Monstr kinda think El Barto villager; Monstr likes dicetosser; Monstr leans Barto; Monstr leans Al Sips; Monstr kind think Cuth town;

Scum: Monstr kinda suspect Cuth; Monstr suspects Winston; Monstr thinks there is low-posting deepwolf; Monstr leans on GH; Monstr down on Zack;

[Monstrdude]

So Cass are you actually gonna read any of my other games or were you just asking to ask and then planning on scumreading me anyway?

Because if you're a wolf you're going to die this way jsyk

[Montmorency]

Directed at you. I don't know if you glossing over your own questioning of my vote on choxorn is something a wolf is more likely to do or not, to be honest -- the motive is obvious; the benefit if caught at it is not -- but it offends my sense of 'all cards on the table' townieness.

Meh

[Monstrdude]

I am authorizing partial release of my notes pursuant to this query.

Just for D2, mind you.

Town: Monstr calls Monty always villa; Monstr says Visor/Winston never w/w; Monstr kinda think El Barto villager; Monstr likes dicetosser; Monstr leans Barto; Monstr leans Al Sips; Monstr kind think Cuth town;

Scum: Monstr kinda suspect Cuth; Monstr suspects Winston; Monstr thinks there is low-posting deepwolf; Monstr leans on GH; Monstr down on Zack;

SEE LOOK AT ALL THE THINGS I'VE THOUGHT

And she says I don't think things

I'll show you thanking

[Montmorency]

I'll show you thanking

You're going to kill me last. :bow:

[Cuthillius]

Cuth, of your whole push on Sooh that I saw, this is the part I really have trouble seeing fit in a possi-Towny mindset.

I don't agree with pushing claimed PRs D1, but if you had a really strong feeling she was Scum, Ok.

BUT then why only aim for her lynch D1? Why not tunnel her to death? Explain the logic/what you were thinking/what would have changed for you if she'd survived?

becauuuseee flips are flips and heck if i know what tomorrow's going to be like

from my pov there, she was potentially trying to bait me into a mini-tunnel to distract me

but basically because reevaluations happen

if she didn't get lynched, she could either die or survive, right

what if two townies died that wouldn't make sense with town sooh? scum

what if a scum and townie die that make total sense with scum

but what if the people die point away from sooh

it's d1, basically

idk

[Monstrdude]

You're going to kill me last. :bow:

Only if you're a wolf

I go back and forth depending on my opinion of visor's alignment which changes by the second, but I want to say through the combination of charts, a certain snarky attitude that I generally equate with villageriness, a way of going about things that seems to question the consensus and that you called me a villager I'm gonna stick with my guns from early today and call you a villager still

[Montmorency]

she was potentially trying to bait me into a mini-tunnel to distract me

What???

[Cuthillius]

Cuth, why ask people to consolidate on him, but not Chox, who was in a similar position?

At the time you posted this, where were you leaning with Barto and where are you at with him now?

mostly i was forgetting the whole only reps vote and that the common vote is meh

that was right after i looked at the vote compilation post and saw that sooh and el barto were tied on top

i was trying to see what people thought of el barto and why

hadn't been following why he had that many votes and wanted to know

--

pretty much the same, neutralish, but he's a little bit lower or higher, not quite sure which, for his scum claim post

[Cuthillius]

All of you should come hang out at vgf mafia or vice versa because over there we go like 50 posts per player per game so even a large game would be kinda low volume (I am ldo the exception)

that's a lot for where i'm from

[Cuthillius]

though I already pointed this out to him when he was around and got no reply

would ya please quit doing that already

i am replying to everything i see that's productive, i might have missed it

[Monstrdude]

Only if you're a wolf

I go back and forth depending on my opinion of visor's alignment which changes by the second, but I want to say through the combination of charts, a certain snarky attitude that I generally equate with villageriness, a way of going about things that seems to question the consensus and that you called me a villager I'm gonna stick with my guns from early today and call you a villager still

There Cass

I MADE A READ

If that's not good enough for you then maybe you're just hungry idk

I mean seriously though the whole spiel about forcing me to make a read on Monty so you can "hold me accountable for it later because it's on the record" is Not A Good Look (tm), especially when you consider that you just asked me for links to games and I didn't give you INSTANT CLICKS, but I spoonfed you the games and you brushed it off. I suggest you reevaluate if you are still scumreading me. Or if you're a wolf you can keep trying and eventually get murdered when I finally go off
In the meantime I will continue to do what I've done all game, despite that you seem to want to argue that I haven't been doing these things

[Cass_]

Ooh, homework! Cass_

Not sure what you plan to do with all of this, but gl!

Thanks.

Plan is I'll use these to do what I did with Chox/what I do when I'm trying to solidify my final reads.

Compare current game and previous styles. Look for differences/similarities in play that stand out as alignment-related. See if that confirms my gut read/what I pick up on here.

(Sometimes) works for me.

Eg. Deciding between Chox/Barto (Cuth is right, I was never going to vote for him based on what we had D1)

FTR Barto not out of the woods for me, he's still very possi-scum, but he had more possi-possi-Town redemption than Chox, who was playing complete opposite to how he played as Town in Rappers and the recent Small Mafia game here.

[Montmorency]

There Cass

I MADE A READ

If that's not good enough for you then maybe you're just hungry idk

I mean seriously though the whole spiel about forcing me to make a read on Monty so you can "hold me accountable for it later because it's on the record" is Not A Good Look (tm), especially when you consider that you just asked me for links to games and I didn't give you INSTANT CLICKS, but I spoonfed you the games and you brushed it off. I suggest you reevaluate if you are still scumreading me. Or if you're a wolf you can keep trying and eventually get murdered when I finally go off
In the meantime I will continue to do what I've done all game, despite that you seem to want to argue that I haven't been doing these things

Don't turn into Zack.


Or if you're a wolf you can keep trying and eventually get murdered when I finally go off

Oh god is that a claim?

[Cuthillius]

This appears to be the CONSENSUS READS LIST and not my own:

Cleared by D1
Cass
Dp101
Renata
atheotes

Good vibes
Monstrbro
Winston
Visor
Jabbz

Slightly less good vibes
Zack
Schema
dicetosser

Monty
Monty

Low posters
Csargo
Al Sipsclar
Riedquat
BSmith

Lynchbait
El Barto
GH
Cuthilius

Let's assume four scum. I think, contrary to popular belief, we're going to find at least one in some of the upper categories. Not the topmost obviously, unless there was a serious error in thought during the late stages of D1, but I'm guessing 1-2 in the combined "vibes" categories plus Monty, 1 in the low posters, and 1 in the lynchbait. The reason for this is simple: it's never that easy, and the consensus is never 100% accurate.

If the situation does look to be as rosy for town as it appears, then I'd pin down Schema as a possible maf that's higher up the reads list. Her(?) D2 has shown some warning signs:



This was never properly explained and Schema instead in future posts went with the handwave defenses of "for now" and "I have reasons".

There is a decent amount of "I'm not scum partners with Cuth" and attacks on Cuth, which could strike me as a maf doing a partial deflection because she perceives the town as attacking the right target but for the wrong reasons. I don't think it's likely that Schema and Cuth are m/m but if Cuth is the lynch and flips town... well.



Tone feels somewhat off for me (don't like the first paragraph/sentence especially) but this could just be a lack of familiarity with her meta.

Bottom line is though that if the PoE is working but isn't 100% I'm probably shooting Schema.

~~~~~~~~~~

This is a little unorthodox, but I would also not complain if one of the extremely high posters was lynched today (I guess Cuth would count for this as well) just to allow the thread to breathe a bit and see if it makes things any more appealing for the low posters to offer their thoughts without them. If they start being able to contribute, great. If not, we should probably start sharpening our scythes or otherwise it will be as Monstrbro said in 1773.

i feel like this is exactly scum-aligned

he throws a suspicion grenade into the top towns, where, if we're correct, ~all (save maybe one) of the scums are near the bottom

this is pro-scum, and something the scum team literally has to do to win (and yes, can be good for town but i don't think it is and that's not the viewpoint i'm trying to show in this post so meh)

chooses schema for heaven knows what reason, apart from tone being off and tiny weird things; i feel like i could find more to complain about than that in several/all of the people in her range of clearedness

and then suggests going after high posters, in order to clear off the thread

right now i'm fairly convinced all of the high posters are town

and i don't think it's a stretch to say that all of them save me are pretty towny

if the scums are in the pool we're looking at, they will also need to do this

to gain any sort of control/foothold

the less thread activity from town the better

iunno

[Monstrdude]

Don't turn into Zack.



Oh god is that a claim?

Why would it be?

[Montmorency]

Why would it be?

A wolf will die when you go off?

[Monstrdude]

A wolf will die when you go off?

When I get mad about it and decide to stop giving her the "I think you're town" benefit of the doubt

[Cuthillius]

So let's say my "consensus PoE isn't correct, jump around the categories" theory wins the day. Shot in the dark, I need to pick out four scum right now, in order:

Cuthilius - wait for flip
> if town, Schema
> if scum, Jabbz
Riedquat, for the hell of it
Jabbs if not already shot, Barto if Jabbz isn't an option

And then Askthepizzaguy to be totally safe.

but this is awful, because you're going up and lynching a town from the higher list

my goodness, make a poe of some sort that makes sense

WHY would you just suddenly go up the ladder and start hunting for a medium-depth town before you've just lynched from the bottom up and gotten rid of the other how many scum

this makes no sense

it also allows for gh/jabbz being scum together, because if scum he knows i don't flip there

that is an awful poe though

i can't reconcile it with what i see and know, and it looks absolutely desperate

look there could be a scum higher up

the way to do that is not to start lynching all the higher ups in a random fashion until we get the right one

that's pretty obvious

[GeneralHankerchief]

but this is awful, because you're going up and lynching a town from the higher list

my goodness, make a poe of some sort that makes sense

WHY would you just suddenly go up the ladder and start hunting for a medium-depth town before you've just lynched from the bottom up and gotten rid of the other how many scum

this makes no sense

it also allows for gh/jabbz being scum together, because if scum he knows i don't flip there

that is an awful poe though

i can't reconcile it with what i see and know, and it looks absolutely desperate

look there could be a scum higher up

the way to do that is not to start lynching all the higher ups in a random fashion until we get the right one

that's pretty obvious

Because my personal PoE doesn't match the town's?

[Montmorency]

Cuth, any claims against you aren't a lolrandom vote, much less than "working up" from low posters.

Smells of potential distancing.

[Cuthillius]

What???

meh

my suspect is asking me are you going to tunnel me all game??

there are only so many reasons she would say that, and that is one of them

it is not major, but it is a thought

[GeneralHankerchief]

i feel like this is exactly scum-aligned

he throws a suspicion grenade into the top towns, where, if we're correct, ~all (save maybe one) of the scums are near the bottom

this is pro-scum, and something the scum team literally has to do to win (and yes, can be good for town but i don't think it is and that's not the viewpoint i'm trying to show in this post so meh)

chooses schema for heaven knows what reason, apart from tone being off and tiny weird things; i feel like i could find more to complain about than that in several/all of the people in her range of clearedness

and then suggests going after high posters, in order to clear off the thread

right now i'm fairly convinced all of the high posters are town

and i don't think it's a stretch to say that all of them save me are pretty towny

if the scums are in the pool we're looking at, they will also need to do this

to gain any sort of control/foothold

the less thread activity from town the better

iunno

If I'm lynched and flip scum then my entire rationale completely falls apart.

[Cuthillius]

Cuth, any claims against you aren't a lolrandom vote, much less than "working up" from low posters.

Smells of potential distancing.

i'm ignoring myself because i know my alignment

i'm complaining about where he wants to go after he wants to lynch me, and what his overall poe is

's clear

[Cuthillius]

cass d'you accept hydra games (or turbos lol)

[Montmorency]

i'm ignoring myself because i know my alignment

i'm complaining about where he wants to go after he wants to lynch me, and what his overall poe is

's clear

Strictly-speaking, Schema and Jabbz are mid-level posters. GH's high-post town reads are the same as yours, more or less.

[Cuthillius]

Strictly-speaking, Schema and Jabbz are mid-level posters. GH's high-post town reads are the same as yours, more or less.

that's true

but i don't think he was talking about schema or jabbz when he said 'i kinda want to lynch one of the high posters'

[Visor]

hey cuth

Why did you want to consolidate on el barto, not choxorn at eod1?

[Montmorency]

that's true

but i don't think he was talking about schema or jabbz when he said 'i kinda want to lynch one of the high posters'

He passed that off as a (semi-)joke, AFAIK, because of spam and high volume.

[Cuthillius]

hey cuth

Why did you want to consolidate on el barto, not choxorn at eod1?

i wanted people to consolidate on the top wagons

choxorn had 1 fewer and i wasn't super suspicious of him

i was judging between the 3-vote wagons, again, wasn't thinking about onlyrepsvote

that was sooh and el barto

wanted to hear people's thoughts about bart because i wasn't really sure myself

and was curious if there was actually a case on him or just the usual

and was still not really sure about sooh

[Cuthillius]

He passed that off as a (semi-)joke, AFAIK, because of spam and high volume.

it wasn't much of a joke

it was more of a 'i wish i could but i can't because it's impracticable'

at least the way i saw it

[Visor]

so you tried to save choxorn and failed got it

[Cuthillius]

so you tried to save choxorn and failed got it

wth

choxorn was not in the immediate lynch range if you ignore reps

it was not like oh do i lynch sooh or barto or choxorn

it was literally guys we should pick one of sooh or barto or something bc otherwise we're not going to lynch town

again, not considering reps

if i had gone after chox, i would be a psychic

you're basically complaining that i didn't suggest everyone lynch the scum, when... the scum was not a main lynch target

i'm sorry, why didn't YOU lynch choxorn

[Visor]

wth

choxorn was not in the immediate lynch range if you ignore reps

it was not like oh do i lynch sooh or barto or choxorn

it was literally guys we should pick one of sooh or barto or something bc otherwise we're not going to lynch town

again, not considering reps

if i had gone after chox, i would be a psychic

you're basically complaining that i didn't suggest everyone lynch the scum, when... the scum was not a main lynch target

i'm sorry, why didn't YOU lynch choxorn

i had him as a wolf

i wanted you lynched.

i also wasn't around eod trying to convince people to vote NOT choxorn

[Cuthillius]

i had him as a wolf

i wanted you lynched.

i also wasn't around eod trying to convince people to vote NOT choxorn

neither was i

the fact that i didn't know for a fact that choxorn was scum and therefore was not going out of my way to lynch him =/= me defending him

the only reason i had for suspecting him, given not reading him closely, was very very thin

[Cass_]

It would be a case of serious bussing if they are both scum, and not everyone subscribes to Pizza strategy. Also, bussing scum don't like to get third scum caught in the whirlpool.

I think it's very unlikely that both could be town.

Why not?


FTR, looking at Aspiring Rappers on Civ Fan

Visor makes a bold/dramatic entrance joke-claiming to be wolf

Cuth jumps on it and tunnels

Visor gets his back right up and

The two of them go hard back and forth. Cuth's focus is saying Visor's playing Wolfy, Visor's focus is saying that Cuth is wolfy because his own play is not.

Some similarities between this game and here IMO.

And both of them were Town.


Going through your this-game ISO, (not finished yet so sorry if you've recently updated) but have you got a list of reads?

[Visor]

Why not?


FTR, looking at Aspiring Rappers on Civ Fan

Visor makes a bold/dramatic entrance joke-claiming to be wolf

Cuth jumps on it and tunnels

Visor gets his back right up and

The two of them go hard back and forth. Cuth's focus is saying Visor's playing Wolfy, Visor's focus is saying that Cuth is wolfy because his own play is not.

Some similarities between this game and here IMO.

And both of them were Town.


Going through your this-game ISO, (not finished yet so sorry if you've recently updated) but have you got a list of reads?

that game was shite

i got tunneled the fuck out of because i didn't post 200 times d2

[Visor]

also got 7 votes 10 hours into a 72 hour + day phase because i hadn't done analysis yet

no i'm not salty why do you ask

[Montmorency]

Why not?

Because individually, so it adds together.


Going through your this-game ISO, (not finished yet so sorry if you've recently updated) but have you got a list of reads?

See rest of ISO.

[Zack]

Actually,

@ Everybody


OFFICIAL ORDER OF CHANCELLORY BUSINESS

----- Please provide links to ISO's for your two most recent Town and your two most recent Scum games -----

Your applications for residence in this Town will be judged accordingly.

Cheers and thank you.

Madame Chancellor,

On behalf of all of those here who are not Wolfy.

No i think this is pointless

P lay this thread

[Zack]

GH: OK, but I don't really see the weight.



I don't have anything to add there, so here's something from notes:

Town: DP101, Cass, Renata, atheotes
Lean Town: Jabbz, Monstrbro
Null: Dice, Winston, El Barto, Sooh, Visor
Lean Scum: Schema, GH, Cuth
Little: BSmith, riedquat, Csargo, Al Sipsclar,

Do i not exist

[Montmorency]

Maybe you should fill the slot that says "Sooh" there. Copy-past template.

Then again, I seem to have had you in "Lean Town" D1. I'm not good at notetaking...

[Zack]

I would lynch cass if her d1 wasn't a thing because her d2 sucks so far

[Zack]

that game was shite

i got tunneled the fuck out of because i didn't post 200 times d2

I liked that game

[Cuthillius]

I liked that game

it was a bad game

[Visor]

it was a bad game

YOU lynched me

[Cass_]

As soon as my policy lynch on Winston is averted I'm voting you.

So you're saying Dp votes choxorn, therefore he's town, then Cass_ is all but confirmed unless we have an SK or second mafia, then Renata and Atheotes are also cleared for voting choxorn… in essence 4 out of 20-odd players voted for the scummo to die, which is like playing… let us call it Ukrainian roulette, but at least it worked. In fact, it's three people and then Cass_ saving my life (thanks lass). What an odd way to make the lynch work, but great.

Anybody else cleared?

He must have posted in the 700 posts I didn't read.

Pulling this out of the Monty ISO.

El Barto - If you're not Scum, you're welcome. But if you're Town, why would you find the move odd?

Aorn everything here apart from the bold feels like it was put there as filler.

And the bold itself feels scummy as pocket-lint and possible WIFOMY linkage so FTR I didn't vote to save your life. I voted because between the two of you, Choxorn was more certainly scum.

[Zack]

Tbh I'm pretty half-hearted about this game rn.

Only a townie idiot votes herself rep with a likely town Dp up for candidacy, blah blah.

Vote: Dp101

Not sure how I feel on the Cuth >> GH lynch vote. Would like to hear from Zack as to why GH isn't a priority for him, since I'm assuming he has some meta to go off.
Monstrbro, I believe you asked me my thoughts on Winston? I had iffy feels early in the game but he got townier for me. I haven't seen most of his D2 contributions though so I'll run le iso there today.

Other people are scummier than gh

I'm glad you gave me a notification so i could shower you with that nugget of insight

[Cass_]

Put another way: Renata put the issue on the table and pushed it, atheotes symbol-sheeped her, DP actually sheeped her from a position of power, and Cass contravened her original vote to decide the matter. Really powerful stuff.

The consideration of the bold seems really villagery here and it's a distinction I missed/didn't think you made obvious skimming through your first post at the start of day.

atheotes, was your vote on Choxorn when Renata asked you to join in because of her request or because you found him wolfy?

What made you change the vote back to El Barto?

[Cass_]

Other people are scummier than gh

I'm glad you gave me a notification so i could shower you with that nugget of insight

Is Cuth a wolf to you?

I find his ISO to be more free-flowing in Tone, his approach to Visor is the same as it was in Rappers, I'm not sure a wolf pushes Sooh D1 there as hard as he did if he could have claimed credit lynching Chox, and the only thing I find suspicious is that he shifted attention to El Barto over Chox, which I think looks bad in the event that El Barto flips Town, and neutral-to-Town if Barto flips scum.



I would lynch cass if her d1 wasn't a thing because her d2 sucks so far

Well then, it's lucky my n1 was awesome.

The difference between d1 and d2 is d1 started as I started days off, and this day started exactly as I was driving to work - for what ended up being a 14hr shift of job-to-job-to-job without a break. I signed up for a low volume game for a reason.

[Cass_]

From town to scum:

Cass_
Renata
Dp101

atheotes
dicetosser1
Jabbz
Visor

Monstrbro
Zack
Winston

BSmith
CSargo
Riedquat

Monty
GH
El Barto
Schema
Cuthillius

Need to ISO the last group to make up my mind.

I can really agree with much of this list.

Off the top of my head, based on light feels from earlier (caveat I'm not caught up) I'd probably shift Schema and Cuth to just under Monstr, and have them null-?slightTown with Zack and Winston as null-?possiScum.

So off the cuff, why have you put Schema and Cuth as lowest scum?

What do you see in Zack and Winston that looks good?

[Cass_]

Ah, screw multiquote on this site. That's out of order.. I think there were two comments from Monty, but you get the idea. He picked on my thinking choxorn's wording looked fake, and ignored the other half of my argument.


Well yeah, that's me. I stand by it. Your case looked better with Choxorn's original early-day post in context, but I didn't recall it at the time and to speak of it now from retrospect isn't useful.

I was wrong. :/

Mindmeld with Renata here.

FTR the part that got skipped over pretty much locked Renata Town for me in that it shows her (accurately) comparing Chox's previous Town play with his play to that point in the game.

The fact that Mont skips over that to focus on wording (to then subsequently take focus off of Chox) is what bothers me most.

[Cass_]

Ah, screw multiquote on this site. That's out of order.. I think there were two comments from Monty, but you get the idea. He picked on my thinking choxorn's wording looked fake, and ignored the other half of my argument.


Well yeah, that's me. I stand by it. Your case looked better with Choxorn's original early-day post in context, but I didn't recall it at the time and to speak of it now from retrospect isn't useful.

I was wrong. :/


becauuuseee flips are flips and heck if i know what tomorrow's going to be like

from my pov there, she was potentially trying to bait me into a mini-tunnel to distract me

but basically because reevaluations happen

if she didn't get lynched, she could either die or survive, right

what if two townies died that wouldn't make sense with town sooh? scum

what if a scum and townie die that make total sense with scum

but what if the people die point away from sooh

it's d1, basically

idk


These thoughts are either really free-flowing or really weak.

Aorn I don't think a wolf goes into that much detail to sound so flip-floppy.

[Zack]

Is Cuth a wolf to you?

if you had read the thread at all you wouldn't be asking this

[Montmorency]

Mindmeld with Renata here.

FTR the part that got skipped over pretty much locked Renata Town for me in that it shows her (accurately) comparing Chox's previous Town play with his play to that point in the game.

The fact that Mont skips over that to focus on wording (to then subsequently take focus off of Chox) is what bothers me most.

Much obliged. But I covered Choxorn meta, still don't see it.

[Cass_]

I'm out for now.

I'll try to read along on mobile but working all day and then 2hr drive home to fam, and then fam stuff comes first until everyone's in bed.

I'll be online for as long as I can stay awake after that and back again a few hours from deadline.


Aorn, current bottom tiers



BSmith/CSargo/Riedquat


Winston/Monty/GH/El Barto


My preference* would be to lynch from here, but I'll pretty much always thoroughly re-evaluate everyone who ends up nominated for lynch when it happens.

*Disclaimer that this could change as I catch up

Night all

Or rather, good morning <.<

*Hides from Dice*

[Cass_]

Much obliged. But I covered Choxorn meta, still don't see it.

Don't see the difference?

Which games did you look at?

(If you're talking about covering something different, I'm sorry, I've missed it)

[Zack]

why am i not listed by winston

i thought you viewed us the same

i don't really get what your problem with him is though

or me for that matter

[Cass_]

if you had read the thread at all you wouldn't be asking this

True, but so? Why not just answer?

[Zack]

True, but so? Why not just answer?

why not ask pointless questions

it would be like me asking you if you thought choxorn was wolfy yesterday

the answer is obvious and nothing is gained by asking it

[Montmorency]

Don't see the difference?

Which games did you look at?

(If you're talking about covering something different, I'm sorry, I've missed it)

Last one: Visor Small Mafia.

[Cass_]

why am i not listed by winston

i thought you viewed us the same

i don't really get what your problem with him is though

or me for that matter


Aorn, you're right above him.

I skimmed back through Star Fox and your attitude here is kind of the same. You were Town there which makes it more likely that I'm being oversensitive about that part of your play here.

Winston, as with everyone at the moment besides Monty who I've freshly ISO'd, is there because of little pings and possibilities I can't articulate clearly enough right now.

/shrug

Why you pressuring me so much?

[Zack]

Aorn, you're right above him.

I skimmed back through Star Fox and your attitude here is kind of the same. You were Town there which makes it more likely that I'm being oversensitive about that part of your play here.

Winston, as with everyone at the moment besides Monty who I've freshly ISO'd, is there because of little pings and possibilities I can't articulate clearly enough right now.

/shrug

Why you pressuring me so much?

no one else is really here

i'm present and interacting

[Montmorency]

What is aorn.

[Zack]

as of right now

[Cass_]

Last one: Visor Small Mafia.

You read that and compared it to here?

Then I absolutely DO NOT see how you didn't see a difference in his play.

ISO for reference (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/search.php?searchid=2062635).

Both ISOs are really short, but that game was basically the DIRECT opposite to here.

Basic summary is that there he

- Questions, questions, questions players from the beginning / Focused on hunting scum.
- Gives SCUM leans, not Town, with specific/game-focused reasons

Here there were no questions until right before he was about to be lynched and it was to slap down a vote 4 mins before EoD on an Al Sips post that was made an hourish earlier.

His most game related post here gave nothing but 'light Town reads' (no reasons) ... plus and a waffle on generic claimed PRs followed by a 'and finally here's a funny gif' which in itself really, really pinged.

TLDR he pretty much screamed scum in direct comparison to that game.

What did you take away from it?

[atheotes]

wow...24 pages to catch up.
Anything interesting?

[Zack]

wow...24 pages to catch up.
Anything interesting?

focus on cuth, gh, bsmith, barto

[Dp101]

wow...24 pages to catch up.
Anything interesting?

Spam

People complaining about spam

[Montmorency]

Basic summary is that there he

- Questions, questions, questions players from the beginning / Focused on hunting scum.
- Gives SCUM leans, not Town, with specific/game-focused reasons

Without hindsight, not much. You can only afford to push this because of the flip.

[Cass_]

no one else is really here

i'm present and interacting

Which is why you're higher towards Town?

I don't see the point in pressing me right now. Not sure how much of that is my own tiredness but it still pings :inquisitive:.

I also don't see the point of arguing back against you when you're not currently in my WTL until I've caught up on what you've said beyond skimming and really given it hard thought. I'm gonna nap before work, I'll try and catch up on your ISO during the day. If you make more sense to me than my gut and the pings I've had of tinfoil disappear under direct line of sight I'll move you up.

Later all <3

[Cass_]

Without hindsight, not much. You can only afford to push this because of the flip.

Push it???

IT'S RIGHT THERE. It's the WHOLE REASON there's the flip there is.

And you're saying you read both games but didn't see it.

It was super obvious to me.



Other people should take a look and weigh in.

/shrug

[Zack]

Which is why you're higher towards Town?

I don't see the point in pressing me right now. Not sure how much of that is my own tiredness but it still pings :inquisitive:.

I also don't see the point of arguing back against you when you're not currently in my WTL until I've caught up on what you've said beyond skimming and really given it hard thought. I'm gonna nap before work, I'll try and catch up on your ISO during the day. If you make more sense to me than my gut and the pings I've had of tinfoil disappear under direct line of sight I'll move you up.

Later all <3

well sorry i guess i'll just ignore you and not talk to you all game? lol

[Montmorency]

Push it???

IT'S RIGHT THERE. It's the WHOLE REASON there's the flip there is.

And you're saying you read both games but didn't see it.

It was super obvious to me.



Other people should take a look and weigh in.

/shrug

OK, jeez Grand Champion, you could see it. I guess that's why you're in a position of leadership, no?

[Cass_]

But I can acknowledge this may be a difference in playstyles.

For now it strikes me as so strange it leans to wolfy.

Hopefully your own ISOs will give me clues

[Cuthillius]

YOU lynched me

case in point

[atheotes]

The consideration of the bold seems really villagery here and it's a distinction I missed/didn't think you made obvious skimming through your first post at the start of day.

@atheotes (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=23809), was your vote on Choxorn when Renata asked you to join in because of her request or because you found him wolfy?

What made you change the vote back to El Barto?

I was a little suspicious of Renata. But once i saw her response to Choxorn's post, it was a mindmeld which made me change my read on her. So yes, i thought Choxorn was wolfy.
barto was still my first choice though. And i did not want you to go for a 4th candidate (outside of Chox, Cuth & Barto)

[atheotes]

focus on cuth, gh, bsmith, barto

BSmith posted already? the other 3 were in my scum list D1.


Spam

People complaining about spam

:laugh4:

[Winston Hughes]

----- Please provide links to ISO's for your two most recent Town and your two most recent Scum games -----

Can't give you ISOs, but here are the games:

Town (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152222-Tokens-of-My-Confection-Concluded)
Town (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152111-Futuramafia-Concluded)
Scum (https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/notw-lvii-tempus-fugit-game-thread.563169/) (subbed in D2)
Scum (https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/notw-lvi-the-demon-council-game-thread.551992/)

[Winston Hughes]

Fair warning: I only posted about ten times in each of those scum games.

(Just be grateful I decided that the game where I posted only in quotes from Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas didn't really count.)

[Zack]

red dwarf would be a better example

[Zack]

nope

glgl

how hard is it to take a picture of your toilet

[Montmorency]

how hard is it to take a picture of your toilet

Were you sitting on that or did it strike you all of a sudden.

[Zack]

Were you sitting on that or did it strike you all of a sudden.

i usually sit on my toilet but sometimes i do get struck by poseidon's kiss

[Dp101]

Zack stop spamming or I will vote you.

[Zack]

no you won't lol

[Zack]

i've also done a lot more than you have, which is basically just 95% complaining

bite me

[Winston Hughes]

red dwarf would be a better example

Looking back, I actually gave some reads lists in that one, so...

Scum (https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/red-dwarf-mafia-the-smeggening-game-thread-concluded.551669/page-23)

A problem with both this and the Demon Council game, though, is that there were multiple scum teams, meaning that I didn't have to fake the scumhunting (indeed, mistaking Visor for a bussing scumbag was what won me the DC game).

[Montmorency]

problem with...this...game


multiple scum teams

What???

?

[Jabbz]

Only up to post 1750, but wanted to drop a line. I think I pinched a nerve in my neck yesterday, so I'm alternating between great paina nd being drugged to the gills. If my posts seem.... odd, my apologies in advance.

[Winston Hughes]

What???

?

The game in the link. :laugh4:

[Zack]

i thought he was saying he likes multiball

[Jabbz]

OoG: After D1, the problem with a game setup like this has become evident. Only certain people will ever get power, and most people are consigned to do nothing for a lot of the game.

I keep seeing posts like this, and while I understand where they are coming from, I think they overlook the amount of power that people wield through their rhetoric. Sure, your district rep doesn't have to vote where you do, but you do influence how they vote through the arguments you make. Just because you can't put the noose around someone's neck yourself doesn't mean you can't tie the rope.

[Winston Hughes]

i thought he was saying he likes multiball

I don't know what that is, but it sounds disgusting.

[Montmorency]

I keep seeing posts like this, and while I understand where they are coming from, I think they overlook the amount of power that people wield through their rhetoric. Sure, your district rep doesn't have to vote where you do, but you do influence how they vote through the arguments you make. Just because you can't put the noose around someone's neck yourself doesn't mean you can't tie the rope.

Yes, I said that. We got it. This isn't about mechanics pertinent to balance. Visor is raising the point that rhetoric without effective votes is less fun for individual players.

[El Barto]

Here have this Vote:Winston He seems alright...

I'm not even going to bother voting to lynch someone, because that seems pointless. The shear volume of posting would make that irresponsible of me anyways. i.e. I can't keep up.
I… I can't make sense of most of what people say. I read the first hundred unread posts out of >400, then my brain again started to feel as if if were melting into cheese. So any analysis comes from those posts plus one in which Cass_ used the mention feature.

link me so we can correct the knuckleheads.
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/which-movies-have-you-watched-not-an-iota-of-bad-movies-but-maybe-bad-taste.549653/page-29#post-14606841

dont quite get what ure meaning here
I OMGUS a lot, especially in the earlier stages of the game. When vanilla town. (if you want to treat that as a hardclaim, by all means).

if ure Tak then apparently I have ages ago. But heres the thing. Ive seen someone claim a scum role with their first post. It took me 4 days to get that SOB lynched but I was right. Since then my policy is simple. You claim scum i vote you. If you can convince me ure town fine but until you do that im not going to just take you at ure word. Thats just asking to let myself get sucked in.
It wasn't my first post and it was obviously a joke post addressed at Winston. And yes, my username on CFC is Takhisis.

Cuth I want you to lay it out why I am a wolf. Use my posts and explain how they are wolfy and why and all that jazz and what I'm trying to aim at with them.
He might seriously be a power role but I doubt it.

Pulling this out of the Monty ISO.

El Barto - If you're not Scum, you're welcome. But if you're Town, why would you find the move odd?

Aorn everything here apart from the bold feels like it was put there as filler.

And the bold itself feels scummy as pocket-lint and possible WIFOMY linkage so FTR I didn't vote to save your life. I voted because between the two of you, Choxorn was more certainly scum.
I don't find the move odd. I find the procedure itself odd. Town strikes gold, yes, but someone being very scummy could not be lynched because the chancellor and/or representatives of the day felt otherwise. We have a gerrymanderable lynch vote.

btw if you hadn't dropped that mention I would have skipped straight through your post, as I said above.

[Cuthillius]

i kinda like that el barto post, maybe

[Winston Hughes]

Yeah, there will need to be more, but I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt for now.

unvote

These guys on the other hand...

Summary of Riedquat's meaningful contributions thus far:

*Votes Visor for all three categories on D1.
*Votes Winston for the D2 election + suspects Visor.
*Orders his town reads within district 2: Winston, Monstr, Visor, El Barto.
*Acknowledges his own and others' scumminess by reason of inactivity.

Summary of BSmith's meaningful contributions thus far:

*D1 votes Winston for rep, Visor for chancellor, and Al Sips for lynch, claiming he hasn't read the thread yet.
*Changes rep vote to Visor to test his ability claim.
*D2 votes Winston for rep + calls Visor and Winston townie + votes Cuth for lynch on the Sooh thing + says Monty is 'making good cases' + various other obvious reads

[Winston Hughes]

BSmith's read of Monty is the closest thing to a deviation from the path of least resistance in those two ISOs.

But I'm not sure if that makes him more scummy than Riedquat or less.

[El Barto]

i kinda like that el barto post, maybe
Is this a response to how I was saying I was willing to vote: Visor?

[Winston Hughes]

From the other end of the scale, Zack looks scummy to me.

I was going to say Monstr as well, but he comes out much better on review. There's the chatty stuff, but there's also lot of pushes and opinions, and a sense of actually trying to understand.

With Zack it feels more like he's trying to bury any read attempt in a pile of spam.

[Winston Hughes]

There's also the bad boy attitude, which Zack tends to ham up as scum in my experience.

In the row with Jabbz yesterday, I didn't feel like he was really trying to understand this player he'd never met before. It was more like he was just taking an opportunity to get in someone's face.

Today I feel like he's been running interference, discouraging the town core in his interactions with them, and making it harder for the inactives to keep up by waging his post war with Monstr.

[Zack]

From the other end of the scale, Zack looks scummy to me.

I was going to say Monstr as well, but he comes out much better on review. There's the chatty stuff, but there's also lot of pushes and opinions, and a sense of actually trying to understand.

With Zack it feels more like he's trying to bury any read attempt in a pile of spam.

well that's just, wrong

[Zack]

There's also the bad boy attitude, which Zack tends to ham up as scum in my experience.

In the row with Jabbz yesterday, I didn't feel like he was really trying to understand this player he'd never met before. It was more like he was just taking an opportunity to get in someone's face.

Today I feel like he's been running interference, discouraging the town core in his interactions with them, and making it harder for the inactives to keep up by waging his post war with Monstr.
well i don't think you've ever townread me in the last few years unless you were a wolf so glad we got here

[Winston Hughes]

well that's just, wrong

The Comma of Guilt?


well i don't think you've ever townread me in the last few years unless you were a wolf so glad we got here

As I recall, I correctly townread you D1 in the cross-community game at MU.

But what is this response anyway? You think it's townie than I'm scumreading you based on meta BS?

[Zack]

I thought it was obviously sarcastic

[Winston Hughes]

I thought it was obviously sarcastic

Doesn't work on the internet, apparently.

[Winston Hughes]

Thing is, for all your love of shitposting, I know you like to win.

And this game I can follow your actions as more plausibly win-oriented if you're scum than if you're town.

[Riedquat]

BSmith's read of Monty is the closest thing to a deviation from the path of least resistance in those two ISOs.

But I'm not sure if that makes him more scummy than Riedquat or less.

Less!

[Winston Hughes]

Less!

More. :stare:

[Zack]

I literally only joined this game so my bet with gh could be resolved quicker, because it's more fun that way than if it's in some random game in 2 months when we've all but forgotten it anyways

and now my only window at being able to meaningfully affect the game slipped away with the way elections and d1 shaped out

and in any case i don't see how I'm not playing for a win as town anyways, i'm not even sure what i'd have to do to fit that arbitrary requirement in your mind. I did zero to save choxorn yesterday, so lol at the accusation of my play making more sense driving for a scum win.

saying I haven't made pushes and opinions doesn't make it true

if you're expecting something like the mtgs game on mu you should read the last few town games i've been in to see that's not happening

[Riedquat]

More. :stare:

Why? Are you sure we are talking about BSmith and not me?

[Winston Hughes]

and now my only window at being able to meaningfully affect the game slipped away with the way elections and d1 shaped out

No it didn't. You've had a lot of effect on the game today. That I can't see much of it as beneficial to town is exactly why I suspect you.


and in any case i don't see how I'm not playing for a win as town anyways, i'm not even sure what i'd have to do to fit that arbitrary requirement in your mind.

There's nothing arbitrary about it. I'm looking for a townie mind, as evidenced by believable thought processes leading to pro-town actions.

Shit that's hard to fake.


I did zero to save choxorn yesterday, so lol at the accusation of my play making more sense driving for a scum win.

You do like to keep your buddies alive, that's true. Need to take a closer look at the events in question to see whether this holds any water, though.

[Zack]

yes and that's an arbitrary measurement because it's entirely subjective and you can make it mean whatever you want

[Winston Hughes]

yes and that's an arbitrary measurement because it's entirely subjective and you can make it mean whatever you want

I'm not trying to prove myself, I'm trying to work you out.

What are you trying to do?

[Winston Hughes]

Why? Are you sure we are talking about BSmith and not me?

How much of the thread have you read?

[Zack]

I'm not trying to prove myself, I'm trying to work you out.

What are you trying to do?
show that you are bending over backwards to form a scum read on me to fulfill your paranoia

like i don't think you seem to have really considered how i could be posting from a town mindset because that isn't what you went searching for, you were looking for the opposite so that's what you found

i have almost 300 posts you'd be able to find something to construct a narrative that i'm a wolf regardless of either of our alignments

if you think i was a wolf with choxorn i'd love to see that case

did you expect me to just roll over and accept it? your question seems to be implying that defending myself is something inherently nefarious and scummy to do

[Riedquat]

How much of the thread have you read?

I've read all this day and I prefer to be lynched twice before attempting to read day 1 again!

[El Barto]

How much of the thread have you read?
Probably very little.

[El Barto]

lolxpost

[Winston Hughes]

show that you are bending over backwards to form a scum read on me to fulfill your paranoia

like i don't think you seem to have really considered how i could be posting from a town mindset because that isn't what you went searching for, you were looking for the opposite so that's what you found

i have almost 300 posts you'd be able to find something to construct a narrative that i'm a wolf regardless of either of our alignments

if you think i was a wolf with choxorn i'd love to see that case

did you expect me to just roll over and accept it? your question seems to be implying that defending myself is something inherently nefarious and scummy to do

This isn't paranoia. Paranoia is that voice telling me that I'm trusting Visor too much.

I didn't go searching for reasons to find you scummy. I had them already.

I went searching for reasons not to find you and Monstr scummy. I found them for him.

On this bit about chox, last night I looked quite carefully at the implications of his flip, and I didn't find you to be an obvious beneficiary.

I'll look again, but I don't like how you're resting on this.

[Zack]

I've read all this day and I prefer to be lynched twice before attempting to read day 1 again!

do you have anything to say about it?

[Zack]

This isn't paranoia. Paranoia is that voice telling me that I'm trusting Visor too much.

I didn't go searching for reasons to find you scummy. I had them already.

I went searching for reasons not to find you and Monstr scummy. I found them for him.

On this bit about chox, last night I looked quite carefully at the implications of his flip, and I didn't find you to be an obvious beneficiary.

I'll look again, but I don't like how you're resting on this.

lol ok

i think you're being ridiculous

[Winston Hughes]

lol ok

i think you're being ridiculous

I think you're trying to make this emotional.

It's your go-to defence.

[Zack]

how did i try to make anything emotional

[El Barto]

ridiculous
There.

I was called ridiculous at some point last night IIRC.

[Winston Hughes]

how did i try to make anything emotional

By dismissing my suspicions as ridiculous.

Calling someone ridiculous or otherwise belittling their efforts can be effective because it provokes an emotional response, and thus changes the dynamic, discouraging them or making them act less rationally.

I know you use this as town too, but you've been overdoing it in this game.

I'm not being ridiculous. I'm expressing a genuine suspicion that I've come to by reasonable means.

[Visor]

If Cuth is a wolf, Zack is likely not a wolf.

If Cuth is a villager, I could see it, I guess. Zack's attitude today compared to yesterday seems a little :shrug:. Even with the idea that your vote doesn't count you can still try to convince people, and hell its what some of us have been trying to do.

[Zack]

By dismissing my suspicions as ridiculous.

Calling someone ridiculous or otherwise belittling their efforts can be effective because it provokes an emotional response, and thus changes the dynamic, discouraging them or making them act less rationally.

I know you use this as town too, but you've been overdoing it in this game.

I'm not being ridiculous. I'm expressing a genuine suspicion that I've come to by reasonable means.

i was more referring to me defending myself as "wow, how scummy of you" when there's nothing else happening in the thread

that was in fact ridiculous

though to be fair i think it's all a little ridiculous

[Zack]

like if i had completely ignored it would you have commented on what a villagery thing to do that is

because i doubt it

[Monstrdude]

I kinda think Zack is a villager

I didn't really pay too much attention to him in Heroes but this doesn't seem like that

[Cuthillius]

If Cuth is a wolf, Zack is likely not a wolf.

If Cuth is a villager, I could see it, I guess. Zack's attitude today compared to yesterday seems a little :shrug:. Even with the idea that your vote doesn't count you can still try to convince people, and hell its what some of us have been trying to do.

ooh ooh i have something to say about that

[Visor]

Hey Cuthillius for the 50th time


Cuth I want you to lay it out why I am a wolf. Use my posts and explain how they are wolfy and why and all that jazz and what I'm trying to aim at with them.

[Zack]

Hey Cuthillius for the 50th time

mike

hunt

[Zack]

ooh ooh i have something to say about that

hopefully it's something that clears me

[dicetosser1]

Actually,

@ Everybody


OFFICIAL ORDER OF CHANCELLORY BUSINESS

----- Please provide links to ISO's for your two most recent Town and your two most recent Scum games -----

Your applications for residence in this Town will be judged accordingly.

Cheers and thank you.

Madame Chancellor,

On behalf of all of those here who are not Wolfy.

No. You shouldnt need them and you already know where they are. stick to DM games thats more true.



Thanks.

Plan is I'll use these to do what I did with Chox/what I do when I'm trying to solidify my final reads.

Compare current game and previous styles. Look for differences/similarities in play that stand out as alignment-related. See if that confirms my gut read/what I pick up on here.

(Sometimes) works for me.

Eg. Deciding between Chox/Barto (Cuth is right, I was never going to vote for him based on what we had D1)

FTR Barto not out of the woods for me, he's still very possi-scum, but he had more possi-possi-Town redemption than Chox, who was playing complete opposite to how he played as Town in Rappers and the recent Small Mafia game here.


I'm out for now.

I'll try to read along on mobile but working all day and then 2hr drive home to fam, and then fam stuff comes first until everyone's in bed.

I'll be online for as long as I can stay awake after that and back again a few hours from deadline.


Aorn, current bottom tiers



BSmith/CSargo/Riedquat


Winston/Monty/GH/El Barto


My preference* would be to lynch from here, but I'll pretty much always thoroughly re-evaluate everyone who ends up nominated for lynch when it happens.

*Disclaimer that this could change as I catch up

Night all

Or rather, good morning <.<

*Hides from Dice*


Thats IT!! you miss are GROUNDED!!! 9pm bedtime tonight or no pressies!

[Cuthillius]

Hey Cuthillius for the 50th time

no, because i no longer believe that

i thought i said that earlier

it's not been my opinion since yesterday

[Visor]

no, because i no longer believe that

i thought i said that earlier

it's not been my opinion since yesterday

When did it change, I want you to tell me what changed and I want you to use MY posts. Explain how it changed.

Don't use vague terms like I felt this or whatever.

Show me explicitly.

[Zack]

ooh ooh i have something to say about that

well are you going to say it

[Dp101]

Sorry for not being around, needed to take a break from mafia for a bit. Will read more of the thread and post more soon.

[Dp101]

By dismissing my suspicions as ridiculous.

Calling someone ridiculous or otherwise belittling their efforts can be effective because it provokes an emotional response, and thus changes the dynamic, discouraging them or making them act less rationally.

I know you use this as town too, but you've been overdoing it in this game.

I'm not being ridiculous. I'm expressing a genuine suspicion that I've come to by reasonable means.

This post right here basically sums up my feelings towards Zack in this game. Every post comes across as bluster and a hope that if you keep saying cases and reads are trash people will go away and stop bothering you. I'm done with Zack's attitude, in fact Vote: Zack Also Winston lock town forever.

[Zack]

what are you talking about

[Zack]

i literally can't say or do anything without it being misconstrued as somehow being wolfy

this is why i am always mislynched on this site and i'm sick of it

[Dp101]

what are you talking about

This. This is what I am talking about. Every time you are accused all I see is a reaction like this that does not address any points made and only tries to shut down conversation.

[Zack]

guess i should've just posted five times each phase and do nothing of consequence

that would make games so much more pleasant for everyone

i'm sure this will be latched on by some hero who says clearly this is just blatant manipulation on my part or some other such nonsense

but i've just been ignored and shat on this entire game and it's really frustrating

[Zack]

This. This is what I am talking about. Every time you are accused all I see is a reaction like this that does not address any points made and only tries to shut down conversation.

Moderator note: The original contents of this post are preserved below in a spoiler. They contain excessively NSFW language and have been deemed to violate forum rules.

????????????????

HOW IS THAT SHUTTTING DOWN CONVERSATION IT IS LITERALLY FUCKING ASKING YOU TO EXPOUND ON WHAT THE FUCK YOU ARE GOING ON ABOUT

^^^^ this is what I am motherfucking talking about

jesus christ i hate this game

[Dp101]

ok sorry I will back off did not mean to make you angry unvote

[Zack]

don't unvote me out of pity

i don't want your pity

i want you to make a case that isn't bullshit

all you've done this phase is whine and complain about everything i've done

"i wish i could kill zack so he would stop talking so much"

"i wish zack would die so blah"

[Zack]

Voting the next person to say lol, it does not help in catching scum.


Based off of this exchange I want to vote Zack, Visor and Cuth all at once, because I feel that at least half of their posts have been more about calling the other guy names rather than solving.


Spam

People complaining about spam


Zack stop spamming or I will vote you.

...

[Riedquat]

Was saying when forum ate my post...

This is awful weird... if zack isn't town I'll eat everybody's hats!

I do not see how you can vote he and not me for example...

[Dp101]

Look, it isn't pity, I just don't want to make anyone angry with my posts. I admit that I have posted mostly garbage today and I am sorry, I will try to find something more productive to do.

[Zack]

whatever

[Zack]

don't unvote me because you feel bad, then that just makes me feel bad

[Dp101]

don't unvote me because you feel bad, then that just makes me feel bad

Nah, you are right, I do need to find another better case. Be back in a bit.

[Cuthillius]

When did it change, I want you to tell me what changed and I want you to use MY posts. Explain how it changed.

Don't use vague terms like I felt this or whatever.

Show me explicitly.

nope

but like i said was during convo yesterday

[Cuthillius]

well are you going to say it

i'm town

[Zack]

i'm town

I appreciate the humor of the situation, I suppose

[Cuthillius]

I appreciate the humor of the situation, I suppose

you asked

[Visor]

nope

but like i said was during convo yesterday

okay i no longer care what alignment you are

you're either a wolf or an honorary wolf

[Zack]

you asked

i meant more

i just endured a beatdown about how i've supposedly been trying to shutdown conversation and demoralize everyone

when i had just finished prodding you about something i wanted to hear you talk about which turned out to just be a simple joke i overlooked

[Cuthillius]

i meant more

i just endured a beatdown about how i've supposedly been trying to shutdown conversation and demoralize everyone

when i had just finished prodding you about something i wanted to hear you talk about which turned out to just be a simple joke i overlooked

and fwiw

i think you're fairly town

and if you're not you still shouldn't be worried about now

and yeah

that's my thoughts on the rest of it

i don't think my being town makes you look particularly bad from interactions but meh

[Cuthillius]

okay i no longer care what alignment you are

you're either a wolf or an honorary wolf

okay