Representative Democracy [Concluded]

[Dp101]

Huh, actually, since this game was technically a town win, I am now 1-4 as VT rather than 0-4! I actually won as town! I didn't think it was possible.

[Montmorency]

Huh, actually, since this game was technically a town win, I am now 1-4 as VT rather than 0-4! I actually won as town! I didn't think it was possible.

You work great as The Stalwart.

[Renata]

Cass_ You don't even want to know how close I came to voting Cuth a couple times on day three. He had so many townie moments, but I was never confident.

I hope this doesn't push the lines of discussion too much, but I thought my comment on Monstr's cop claim might be funny:


Pizza game plus full cop PLUS watcher? Pls

I was thinking maybe just maybe you had a one-shot or a mixed JOAT type role. But the retraction didn't surprise me at all. And I'm normally pretty gullible in that way.

But that reminds me I didn't comment on the town setup before. I think it was fine. With the loss of our watcher on night one we were basically playing a vanilla game -- like GH said, 100% intuition. And that is HARD, knowing you're flying by the seat of your pants until you die and you will never get the kind of mental break or certainty that power roles can provide. (I mean, even bsmith could have been a mafia vig -- there was one last game -- but he played it well.) But that's what mafia is all about. So I regretted Sooh dying but didn't regret that there was no other role to back her up. Watcher is plenty strong enough.

[Renata]

Huh, actually, since this game was technically a town win, I am now 1-4 as VT rather than 0-4! I actually won as town! I didn't think it was possible.


Woo!

[Cass_]

:whip:


Quote Originally Posted by Zack
"though maybe they deserve it for electing an australian who is never going to be around for eod as chancellor."

Quote Originally Posted by Takhisis
"I really think that your dying breath should be used to curse Zoidberg."

Quote Originally Posted by choxorn
"Foolish townies. You think there was some meaning or spews behind my posts, when in reality I was totally winging it and had no idea what I was doing."

Quote Originally Posted by choxorn
"Just roleclaim a 400-foot-tall purple platypus bear with pink horns and silver wings, see how they react to that.

Or maybe Melon Lord. Or Wang Fire."

Quote Originally Posted by choxorn
What's your real opinion on Barto, Cass? Huh?

Quote Originally Posted by Barto
‘He's devilishly handsome’.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________ _______________

:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: Actual LOL for all of these <3

Also. Totally made the EoDs ~D, though you people are all still freaking crazy for putting me in that position :P





Quote Originally Posted by Pizza
GH was lynched, both of you are still alive.________________

Quote Originally Posted by Zack
What lol__________________________________________

Quote Originally Posted by Pizza
what lol indeed

poor cass gonna be devastated in postgame...___________


... Me & Pizza on Skype at that point:


Me:
oooooooonooooooo
Guess I'm living to resign and be stoned for a bit tomorrow... oh yey :|

Pizza:
*Hug* ... the burdens of the crown

Me:
Glad to give them up if I can't make the right calls. This will be SO BAD for Town if Barto is actually scum

Pizza:
You can't, it's for life.

Me: it's WHAT?

Pizza: Did you see the fine print?

Me: #Details

Pizza: You're Chancellor for life

Me: OhLight
they're even crazier than I thought!

Later:
*Cass rocks in corner*




Quote Originally Posted by Zack
"I don't understand why she keeps voting tak then breaking the tie favor of someone else"__

Because <.< lackofselfconfidenceandultimatetinfoilonGH.gif ?

I had Barto as default, but then decided there was still a chance he was Town like in Rappers v. the differences I saw in GH's play. ... I actually submitted my decision with a caveat that Pizza had to kill Barto over GH if Barto was actually scum :laugh4:, but the dude in the cloak specifically told me 'no stipulations, just decisions, madam' :creep:


Quote Originally Posted by Zack
"Conspiracy theory launched."_____________

H8U/dont-h8-u +
*Insert dicetosser1 tunneling on me here* :D <3



DT stuff if Pizza oks it :)

[Askthepizzaguy]

I feel like the mechanics could use tweaking, but they were not the reason why this game was a town roflstomp.

Mafia is an unsymmetrical game, where if town guesses correctly, there's nothing the mafia can do to stop the win.

It's like the mafia are in a mate-in-three situation or fewer at all times from the game start. it's up to town to see the mate, if they can't, they will eventually lose the game.

Mafia should never feel bad about a loss to town. It literally is the town's game to win. You play the role of the villains, you steal victory from the town's grasp only.

[Montmorency]

Of course, don't fail to mention Pizza's neato writeups and how much flesh they built around the persona of Supreme Chancellor Cass.

[Cass_]

Cass_ You don't even want to know how close I came to voting Cuth a couple times on day three. He had so many townie moments, but I was never confident.


Haha! You didn't though! And tbh I was more confident to start with than I was by D3... part of the reason I wanted you or Monstr to have at it :creep: :creep: :creep: I wouldn't have voted him over Barto, but if you'd voted him and he'd flipped Town I would probably have tinfoiled on you endlessly until you flipped... even though he may have been a possibility for me D4 >.< . I gotta work on that.
Monstrbro sticking to his guns there was GOAT.

[Renata]

Montmorency I did read you as town early for your screwiness! But then certain parties talked me out of it by bringing up your meta. Meta schmeta. :lol:

Later I was torn between what seemed a transparently towny, high-effort process -- also very different from last game -- and less than impressive actual results. (Even after I died your reads were very different from mine.) I guess in the end you did a good job of walking that line. I was almost relieved to catch you in that one omission I voted you for; I was thinking, if he's pulling the wool over my eyes again at least this time I voted him once.

You're a formidable player.

[dicetosser1]

[MENTION=100481]


I was pleasantly surprised by all of you. When we invite new people to the org, it's typically a crapshoot of folks who don't even bother to post.

On an unfamiliar forum with lots of people you didn't know, you showed up and all played very well. Many of you self-clearing, many of you finding scums, all of you interacting, giving reads, and being not a total dead zone where no one has a chance to read. You guys all have a lot to be proud of about your town game.

I really appreciate you coming and playing with us on the org. If you care to be mentioned for upcoming games in sign-ups, let us know. We'd all love it if you were to stick around.


it was no problem tho FTR if you EVER tell me its gonna be a low volume game again im gonna laff in your face. :D

mention me for games I just gotta remember to come here sometimes.


Game critique yes needed more scum.

Needed more VCs by the mod. That is something that frustrates me in general. I want vcs from the mod for 2 reasons 1 so I know where things stand (especially when I wake up to 20 pages more) and 2 so I KNOW its correct. its awesome that players are willing to make the effort but I want the mods cause as part of their job they will make SURE theres no mistakes AND you cant mistake it when someone is actually doing VC analysis not giving a current vc.

Voting. This was my biggest bugbear. I basically spent the game feeling like my vote, my only power, meant nothing. And it was frustrating as.

Game suggestion. We played a game recently on DM where at night everyone went into a QT they had chosen. there you continued playing. Id suggest night QTs by district with the reps and chancellor voting at the end of the night after discussion with their district



People were suspecting me for the wrong reasons, Winston. Am I supposed to just... let that slide? :no:

Reasons don't always have anything to do with it. Im a gut reader and a tone reader. I often don't have a reason for my read. Doesn't mean they are wrong.
In fact my gut reads are much better then my thought out logical ones.

re fake peek im gonna tap dance on the line here. Ive been fake peeked by obvious scum late game and blew my lid at him. The WAY I blew up should have clearly told people I was town. I think you did the right thing in attacking the claim. I just think watch what you say when you do that. which is harder as scum as you don't actually have the moral righteous anger that I did as town.



Oh, and since the town dead QT isn't getting revealed, let me just quote one relevant section of it:

why is it not being revealed?
and do we get the mafia qt?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Of course, don't fail to mention Pizza's neato writeups and how much flesh they built around the persona of Supreme Chancellor Cass.

I loved the idea of drafting an unwilling person into a position of power, and Cass's own unique personality fit the mold of a mortified innocent bystander.

But of course that innocence wouldn't be reasonable if it were to go on for years, so eventually even she gets corrupted by power, and (as anyone would) used the moon for target practice. I'm pretty sure we all saw that coming, and I apologize for being so predictable.

[Askthepizzaguy]

why is it not being revealed?
and do we get the mafia qt?

There was some unpleasantness in the game and I'm asking the players not to reveal those quicktopics just to keep the peace.

Otherwise it is the usual custom.

[Askthepizzaguy]

it was no problem tho FTR if you EVER tell me its gonna be a low volume game again im gonna laff in your face. :D

This was a huge problem.

If you look at the post counts of other games here it should have been manageable, but folks like Renata, Zack, Visor, Monty, and then a deluge of new players who weren't reluctant to press the "post reply" button, made for an outcome I couldn't have predicted.

It usually is not this talkative around here, by a longshot.

I enjoyed it, but many people couldn't keep up at all, including poor Csargo.

[Choxorn]

The voting thing wound up being rather pro-town, I think? Though it might not always be. But like only three people had signed on to choxorn needing to die on day one (me, atheotes, Dp), one of those grudgingly (and Visor did also like the idea but voted for someone else), and he still died. I don't know if I could have gotten him lynched in the normal way. It's not something I'm particularly good at. Again, the good day one and the clear townies resulting from that played a big role in the whole representative thing not turning into a massive distrustful mess.

Yeah, and only two actually voted for me. I was definitely annoyed about that, especially because it felt like I was getting lynched for silly day 1 reasons.

I honestly had totally forgotten the game started! The post only seemed so disjointed because I wrote the first part of it as soon as I opened the thread again, then wrote the second part of it after I'd read through the thread, and that took me about two hours. Town chox would have done more or less the same thing!

That being said, bleh, me disappearing and forgetting for most of day 1 is some pretty shit d1 play, and that's even by my standards of always sucking at day 1, so I don't really have much of an excuse for playing so badly.

Pizza mentioned somewhere else a few weeks ago that spreading votes on day 1 is an effective way of catching the mafia, and I think this game showed that he was right- the votes were all over the place, and more importantly, only 3 of them actually counted, and on day 1 in particular it wasn't easy to see which 3 were going to count. Things could swing around pretty rapidly with just a few people changing their minds, and that meant we were always under pressure. Barto and I didn't react to always being under pressure as well.

A suggestion if someone wants to host a game like this in the future? Start out with 7 districts of 3 people instead of 3 districts of 7 people. The vote's a bit less swingy that way, and it would greatly increase the chance that one of the scums would manage to get voted a district rep if they only have to win over one townie's vote instead of two or three. Sure, there was always the chance of us getting voted a district rep in this game, but it never happened, and having no voting power hurt us- if the town's best weapon is the vote, the mafia's best defense against that weapon is screwing with it as much as they can. Our votes not counting for anything made it a lot harder to defend ourselves.



I think we should try the all jesters game


that was like the third game I hosted

I'm reminded of that game civplayah hosted a long time ago where everyone was a lone wolf without a kill and the point was to see how long it would take for people to figure that out.



Quote Originally Posted by choxorn
"Foolish townies. You think there was some meaning or spews behind my posts, when in reality I was totally winging it and had no idea what I was doing."


It's funny because it's true. My vote for Al was just "Shit, haven't voted yet, it's 5 minutes until EOD and I have no time to think or say anything about the votes on me... let's see if I can find something kinda scummy on the last few pages and vote someone for it!" And then I saw Al's post, thought it was kinda scummy, and voted him for it.



Quote Originally Posted by choxorn
"Just roleclaim a 400-foot-tall purple platypus bear with pink horns and silver wings, see how they react to that.

Or maybe Melon Lord. Or Wang Fire."


My references are the best references.


Mafia is an unsymmetrical game, where if town guesses correctly, there's nothing the mafia can do to stop the win.

It's like the mafia are in a mate-in-three situation or fewer at all times from the game start. it's up to town to see the mate, if they can't, they will eventually lose the game.

Mafia should never feel bad about a loss to town. It literally is the town's game to win. You play the role of the villains, you steal victory from the town's grasp only.

True, but it's a mate-in-three situation where black's pieces are pretending to be white's pieces. Or white's pieces are pretending to be black's pieces, I'm not sure which side is town and which side is mafia. Also all the pieces are disguised as pawns, and some of them can move like a combination of a queen and a knight and... I think my metaphor got lost here.

[Choxorn]

Needed more VCs by the mod. That is something that frustrates me in general. I want vcs from the mod for 2 reasons 1 so I know where things stand (especially when I wake up to 20 pages more) and 2 so I KNOW its correct. its awesome that players are willing to make the effort but I want the mods cause as part of their job they will make SURE theres no mistakes AND you cant mistake it when someone is actually doing VC analysis not giving a current vc.


Dicetosser, there's only so much the game host can do, they're not online all the time, they have to sleep and go to work or school too, they also sometimes wake up and find 20 new pages in the thread. We don't have the tools here we have at a site like MU to make tally keeping easy.

I recognize it can be frustrating going a long time without an official vote count, but believe me, the game hosts are usually doing all they can.


This was a huge problem.

If you look at the post counts of other games here it should have been manageable, but folks like Renata, Zack, Visor, Monty, and then a deluge of new players who weren't reluctant to press the "post reply" button, made for an outcome I couldn't have predicted.

It usually is not this talkative around here, by a longshot.

I enjoyed it, but many people couldn't keep up at all, including poor Csargo.

It seems like you're incapable of hosting a game that doesn't have insane activity. Is it that your games are so interesting, or that you just keep bringing in lots of new players from across the internet that like to post more than we do here at the .org?

[Askthepizzaguy]

True, but it's a mate-in-three situation where black's pieces are pretending to be white's pieces. Or white's pieces are pretending to be black's pieces, I'm not sure which side is town and which side is mafia. Also all the pieces are disguised as pawns, and some of them can move like a combination of a queen and a knight and... I think my metaphor got lost here.

Just put a blindfold on white and remove the chess board entirely and instead make the pieces a bunch of mafia players.

The analogy is perfect. Anyone who says otherwise will bear the full brunt of my daisy.

[Askthepizzaguy]

It seems like you're incapable of hosting a game that doesn't have insane activity. Is it that your games are so interesting, or that you just keep bringing in lots of new players from across the internet that like to post more than we do here at the .org?

I put drugs in my role PMs. You've all been high this entire time.

[Montmorency]

True, but it's a mate-in-three situation where black's pieces are pretending to be white's pieces. Or white's pieces are pretending to be black's pieces, I'm not sure which side is town and which side is mafia. Also all the pieces are disguised as pawns, and some of them can move like a combination of a queen and a knight and... I think my metaphor got lost here.

Important rule: never claim to be the king - especially if you are the king.


Just put a blindfold on white and remove the chess board entirely and instead make the pieces a bunch of mafia players.

The analogy is perfect. Anyone who says otherwise will bear the full brunt of my daisy.

So who is blindfolded white? The game host? :dizzy2:


One thing about this game, it was so huge that I actually started to take notes from the end of D1, and got into the habit of using the forum's reply-quote function rather than simple copy-paste. Otherwise it would have been impossible to keep track.

But my notes weren't more than crude extracts and milestones. For posterity:

By late D1:

Others: Cuth on Schema; GH townread dicetosser;
Town: DP101, Cass, Renata, Jabbz (defended)
Lean Town: atheotes, Zack, Monstrbro,
Null: Cuth, Dice, Winston, El Barto, Sooh, GH, Choxorn (defended)
Lean Scum: Schema
Scum: Visor
Others: Zack and Renata against Jabbz, Choxorn; Cass against me; Visor against me and Cuth; Sooh

against atheotes; Cass on Atheotes-Jaabz if Renata is town; dicetosser against me;
Special: Csargo (lolscum)
Little: BSmith, riedquat, Csargo, Al Sipsclar,
Lynched: Choxorn (SCUM)




Start D2:

Others: Renata says Jabbz townier for being lectured by Chox; Visor says Winston likely town; Renata

likes Winston; Schema says Al Sips spewed town by late Chox vote; Monstr calls me always villa;

Monstr says Visor/Winston never w/w; Monstr kinda think El Barto villager; Monstr likes dicetosser;

DP likes dicetosser; Monstr leans Barto; Winston likes Monstr; Renata likes Dicetosser; Winston

likes Dicetosser; Dice leans Monstr; winston agrees case against Cuth is good; Al Sip likes

dicetosser;
Town: DP101, Cass, Renata
Lean Town: Jabbz, atheotes, Monstrbro
Null: Dice, Winston, El Barto, Sooh, Csargo
Lean Scum: Schema, GH, Cuth,
Scum: Visor
Others: Visor says Schema/Cuth/GH looks bad; Renata shade Monstr for Chox slight town; Renata down on

Zack; Jabbz distrustful Visor; Monstr kinda suspect Cuth; Monstr suspects Winston; Monstr thinks

there is low-posting deepwolf; Monstr leans on GH; DP leans on Zack; dice suspects me; Al Sips leans

GH;
Little: BSmith, riedquat, Csargo, Al Sipsclar,
Killed: Sooh (TOWN WATCHER)




Early D2:

Others: Al Sipsclar says Schema looks okay on re-read; Cuth likes Monstr, Schema, Dice, Winston, and

me; Visor says Cuth wolf should clear Schema; Monstr leans Al Sips; Cuth leans Al Sips; Visor yolo

that Chox spewed Al Sips clear; Visor same for Chox on Jabbz; DP likes Jabbz and Winston; Visor likes

Winston, Monstr, Zack; Monstr kind think Cuth town; Cass leans Schema and Cuth;
Town: DP101, Cass, Renata, atheotes
Lean Town: Jabbz, Monstrbro, Zack
Null: Dice, Winston, El Barto, Csargo, Visor
Lean Scum: Schema, GH, Cuth
Scum: if Visor scum, one of Jabbz/Al Sips likely partner (see Visor's dual spew assessment);
Others: Visor says Schema looks bad; Cuth doesn't like Zack, GH, and bart; Visor leans GH; Visor

simple solution - GH/Cuth/Bart/Inactive; Monstr down on Zack; Zack doesn't like BSmith for liking my

case(s); Visor accuses Cass, not sure if srs; Visor says Bart and GH kinda wolfy; Visor suspects

BSmith; Renata thinks Cuth on Sooh atrocious; GH on Cuth/Schema opposite, doesn't like Jabbz and

Riedquat; Cuth thinks best to look in low-post ranks; Cuth says GH progression allows GH-Jabbz; Cass

leans Zack and Winston; Visor (p57) said Cuth and two of Bart/GH/BSmith
Little: BSmith, riedquat, Csargo, Al Sipsclar,






Late D2:

Others: If Cuth is wolf it clears Bart (who?? - Monstr said Cass always village if Visor & Bart v/v; also Monstr said scum-town for Cuth-Bart, or vice versa); Visor thinks Cuth scum makes Zack likely town; Winston uptrend El Barto; Winston uptrend Monstr; DP locks Winston town forever; Riedquat likes Zack;

Cuth likes Zack; Cass sees no m/m between Monty-GH or Monty-Renata; Winston maybe Schema-Cuth

unlikely; Winston thinks Schema looks townie; something about Cass and Winston seeing Riedquat as

more genuine than BSmith; Monstr leans Riedquat; Schema likes dice, monstr, probably zack, lean

Winston; Monstr thinks Cuth village, has good vibe on Zack; Zack meh on GH; Monstr ok with Al Sips,

Riedquat (Zack agrees); Visor likes Zack; DP says Jabbz town; Zack leanspost says Monstr, Visor,

Winston, dice, Al Sips, & Schema (in order) above the midline; Cass finds Visor village as hell; Jabbz

likes Zack better; Schema not quick to lynch Zack; GH says Zack most likely town;
Town: DP101, Cass, Renata, atheotes
Lean Town: =Monstrbro, Riedquat
Null: Dice, Winston (downtrend), El Barto, Visor, Zack, Jabbz
Lean Scum: Schema, GH, Cuth (maybe Winston)
Scum: Winston-dice-Jabbz possible?
Others: Visor says Schema looks bad; Winston suspects Zack; DP suspects Zack; Zack thinks Cuth scum;

Visor suggests GH-Cuth-Schema, GH-Bart-Schema, Cuth/BSmith or inactive/GH; Cass still doesn't like

Barto; Zack teams Cuth, Bart, and Jabbz, plus Bsmith to lesser extent; Monstr would lynch inactives

over many current wagons (e.g. Gh, Cuth), with Zack agreeing; Monstr would look at Jabbz; Monstr

doesn't like Bsmith (Zack agrees; Zack says Csargo before Reidquat and Al Sips (Schema agrees);

atheotes potential teams El Barto, GH, Cuth, maybe Csargo, Monty; Visor finds Schema's defence of

Zack sketchy, vague, generic; Renata like to see any of GH, Cuth and one of inactives up for lynch
Little: BSmith, Csargo, Al Sipsclar,
Lynch: GH TOWN; People OK with Barto lynch: Cass, Zack, GH, Visor, Schema, Monstr atheotes






Start D3:

Others: Schema lean Zack; Monstr maintains town core public and personal; Fenn likes Zack & Renata; Jabbz put Zack town for Dp101 NK WIFOM; Schema has Cuth looking less bad, but still shouldn't be rep; Cuth thinks Monstr is town; doesn't have >thin reads on Atheotes, BSmith, Dice

Town: DP101, Cass, Renata, atheotes
Lean Town: Monstrbro, Riedquat
Null: Dice, Winston, El Barto, Visor, Zack, Jabbz, BSmith, Al Sipsclar,
Lean Scum: Schema, (maybe Winston)
Scum: Cuth

Others: Zack suspect Cass-Chox-Cuth-Bart conspiracy; Fenn says Cuthillius seems more scummy than El

Barto; Fenn found GH null, Cuth scummier than Bart and worth a lynch; Cass says Schema and Cuth go

down from last reads list;

Special: Fenn/Csargo lolscum
Little: BSmith, Al Sipsclar
Night Kill: Dp101 TOWN






Early D3:

Others: Jabbz finds Zack townie, unsure about Winston; Fenn likes Schema for explaining D1 reads; Riedquat likes Zack and Bart; Fenn ok with Riedquat for Rep; Renata sees Riedquat as like previous townquat; Cuth mild townread on Bsmith; Cuth on Fenn says his towniest moment is finding Ried's post towny; Cuth gives dicetosser town lean; Cuth says Bart is slightly towny; cuth has (dead) GH as top scum (Visor wanted him to expand before I pointed out problem and ruined the opportunity); Cuth townread atheotes on tone with slight reservations; Cuth has Schema mild towny for D1, though later Schema hedged a lot; Cuth has Winston sure-town, despite his pushing Zack a bit too much; Cuth puts Cass town in one sentence/post, then same for Renata; Cuth has Monstr towniest, pure town; Cuth fairly confident Visor town, bit less so for Zack; Monstr now townreads Winston; Fenn has Renata, Cass, atheotes as def town, lean town on Monstr, Visor, Zack; Monstr has Visor as town for D1, and can't be m/m with me; Monstr says Zack almost as town as Visor. never scum with Cuth or Jabbz; Zack has me tiny town lean; Dice now leans Cuth town because of his unapologetic post with reads; Cuth actually had me as town;

Town: Cass, Renata, atheotes
Lean Town: Monstr, Riedquat
Null: Zack, Barto, Visor, Jabbz, BSmith, Al Sipsclar,
Lean Scum: dice, Schema, (maybe Winston)
Next Tier: schema winston fenn bart
Next Tier: bsmith zack dice jabbz
Scum: Cuth (full reads post 2479; read Jabbz last, null on him)

Others: Cass shades Schema; dice still doesn't like me; Renata wants Cuth lynched, then Bart, suspicious of Zack; Renata bothered by Schema's SoD statement on districts; Visor sus Schema for ignoring mid-day and little substance; Fenn wants Cuth, then Bart, lynched; Ried wants Cuth lynched, then BSmith; atheotes can't look past Cuth and Barto; Cuth scumread Fenn on not caring about reasoning for primary lynch target, and not trying to find town; Cuth tiny scum lean on Al Sips; Cuth small scum lean on Riedquat, esp. for post on GH; Cuth has me top scum; Monstr now (almost?) wants to lynch Bart (pp. 83-4); Monstr has Jabbz and Zack never m/m, but one might be scum; Monstr still think Cuth town; Monstr says Bart-Winston unlikely scum team for antipathy; Fenn has Bart, dicetosser, and Cuth as scum (though Cuth's lean posts were towny); Monstr says Fenn/barto/monty/Schema Yolo (Least confident in schema); Zack has Barto scum; dicetosser wants Barto lynch;

Special: Fenn/Csargo lolscum
BARTO ISO: On D1, leaned Monstr as scum, same for Early D2 (and vote);






Late D3:


Others: Winston has Renata pure town; Bart has Cass, Monstr, Renata, Al Sipsclar as town; dice has town Cass, Monstr, Renata, & probably Cuth; Al Sipsclar has town Renata, Cass, atheotes, Winston, Visor; Visor suspects dice; Cass puts dice as unlikely scum with Cuth; atheotes has Al Sipsclar trend up a little; Zack and Renata null on Al Sips; Jabbz has Al Sips best among low-posters; Fenn still think Schema towny; Jabbz puts Cuth probably town, even tho he townreads Schema; Jabbz has town Cass, Renata, atheotes, Cuth, Zack;

Town: Renata, Cass, atheotes.
Lean Town: Monstr, Riedquat
Null: Zack, Barto, Visor, Jabbz, BSmith, Al Sipsclar, dice
Lean Scum: (Bart-Monstr coming in), Winston, Fenn, Schema (but less if Cuth town I said)
Scum: Cuth

Others: Winston has Visor worse (for neatness since D1), me scummier; Bart has me, Ried, and Fenn as scum, maybe Visor (though not with me); dice leans monty, barto, & visor (for dropoff); Al Sips has scum Bart, Mont, Zack, BSmith, Cuth; Cass tinfoil Visor, will downtrend if Cuth and Zack are town; Atheotes has me and Fenn on POE; Renata moves Jabbz down a little for early D3 views on DP NK wrt Zack and mislynch; Winston still has Zack top scum read; Al Sips moved Schema down (according to Cass); Renata could see scum Zack, but not right now; Zack says Al Sips moved him to scum from town and Monstr from town to "no idea"; Jabbz has Schema more scummy than not, and Fenn for seeming to suppprt Schema and try to suggest D1 would-have-done wrt Sooh; Jabbz has Bart and Schema as scum, maybe Bsmith & Fenn;

Lynch: BARTO SCUM GOON






Start D4:


Others: Winston points out Jaabz clear for reads and vote on Barto at EOD; Fenn says events clear/look good for atheotes, Monstr, dice; Visor still says Winston probs town because of tone and process; Winston says Visor been townie enough, but could fake it; Zack says dice, atheotes, and Jabbz voted scum when it counted, BSmith & Cass are mechanically clear, and Monstr (though earlier was nervous or ambivalent - but Cuth defense!) & Visor are tonally clear (the rest are uncategorized or null); Winston has Jabbz even townier than Zack leans;

Town: Monstr, Atheotes, Cass
Lean Town: Jabbz, Riedquat, dice
Null: Zack (note that EOD2 he said meh on GH, should be better lynch), Visor, Al Sipsclar, BSmith,
Lean Scum: Schema, Fenn, Winston, (Visor?)
Scum:

Others: Winston still has Zack scum, but less so with Barto flip; Winston says my pushes don't ring true, seem counter-town; Winston says Fenn now stands out as scum based on D3 tone and positioning; WInston found Schema good on tone, but falling to scum on situational stuff; Zack sees Monty as maybe lolclear, or at least barely outside of POE for now; Monstr responding to Zack reads says VIsor and Monstr shouldn't be in same category because Monstr scum seems much more difficult than VIsor scum; Dice wants to lynch Zack, and if he is scum lynch Cass;

Special: BSMITH CLAIM VIG
Night Kill: RENATA & CUTH TOWN






Early D4: Cass has Zack ok today but disagrees that Barto flip makes Zack townier; Cass says Winston good tone though mechanically suspect for staying on Cuth and moving off Barto; Cass has EoD3 efforts of Jabbz and Atheotes looking good; Cass doesn't see scumdice despite dogmatic paranoia on bussing and clearing, finds Visor's responses opportunistic, but doubts m/m; Cass has Monstr town but still holds out for secret DeepWolf, will look later; Monstr has tentative trust for Monty, Visor, & Winston, believes likely all 3 townies; Riedquat has town Monty (pretty/almost sure), Monstr, Cass, zack, dice (mostly), Bsmith (w/ reservations wrt claim), atheotes, dicetosser (mostly), schema (same as dice), fenn (more townie than scummy),

Others:

Town: Monstr, Atheotes, Cass
Lean Town: Jabbz, Riedquat, dice
Null: Zack (uptrend?), Visor, Al Sipsclar, BSmith,
Lean Scum: Schema, Fenn, Winston, (Visor?)
Scum:


Others: Cass says Monty can't be lolcleared, feels puppet strings around weird comments especially EoD3, more commentating/canvassing/mechanics than commitments; Cass wants to hear more from low-posters; Cass feels Schema has slipped away following an opinionated start; Cass feels Riedquat isn't offering enough if town; Winston wants Monty and Zack dead, they are interference-running, POE-extending, agenda-setting scum; Visor leans Schema; Visor suggests Al SIpsclar/Riedquat and maybe dice after lynch Schema; Riedquat has no scum reads besides himself/Riedquat, but no clue on Jabbz and Al Sipsclar, feels weird and unsure/less sure on Winston, weirder on Visor;






Late D4:

Others: Al Sips leans dice & Jabbz, won't lynch Cass, atheotes, Monstrbro, Winston, & Bsmith; Al Sips surprised that Fenn likes his tone and reasons, but calls him null for now; Monstr thinks Fenn town, 80-85%; Schema has had Monstr as town most of game; Cass townread Monstr, BSmith, Atheotes(with reservations), dice, Jabbz; Cass YOLO town Riedquat & Al Sips; Monstr likes Schema; Schema felt that everyone who has given her townreads so far has been town, will trust Fenn for now on that;

Town: Monstr, Atheotes, Cass, BSmith
Lean Town: Jabbz, Riedquat, dice
Null: Zack (uptrend?),
Lean Scum: Schema, Al Sipsclar
Scum: Winston, Fenn, Visor

Others: Al Sips downgrades Visor; Al Sips has Zack and Monty scum, former a bit more; Riedquat has Schema scummier than Fenn; Cass says Monty more likely scum if Atheotes town; Cass downtrend atheotes; Cass feels VIsor on Dice is opportunistic/not right (see also Post 3262); Schema only "eh" about Visor right now (of Winston-Visor-Fenn), but wanted to lynch Monty earlier on; Cass doesn't feel good about Zack and his approach; Fenn doesn't like Schema's return, but feels wolves are on the sudden wagon on her; Cass bottom tier Schema/Fenn (more bothered by Fenn), then Visor/Monty/Zack/Winston; Schema says Fenn feels forced but too low-impact for lynch today; Schema bugged about Visor for being alive, reaction to Cuth flip, and insistence on quality of own reads; Schema's unhappy place is Cass's Winston/Visor/Monty trio; Monstr has Fenn fine to die; Monstr says one of Fenn/al sips/schema must be scum; Zack says Fenn over Visor, Schema over Al SIps; Schema says Visor over Fenn probably, but trusts Cass if Fenn;

Lynch: AL SIPSCLAR TOWN






Start D5:

Others: Schema townreads Fenn & Monstr; Schema claims she had everyone at EOD for lynch (i.e. Al Sips & Fenn) as town; dicetosser has Schema gtown; Schema seems to like me (suspicious acceptance of atheotes?);

Town: Monstr, Atheotes,
Lean Town: Riedquat, dice
Null: Zack
Lean Scum: Schema (but not with atheotes)
Scum: Winston, Fenn, Visor

Others: Monstr claim peek Zack scum; Schema not impressed with Atheotes, believes Monstr claim against Zack; Zack shades Schema as Fenn's partner; dice WTL Visor, Monty, Zack; Visor said nothing about Al Sips was towny;

Night Kill: BSMITH TOWN 3DAY VIG; JABBZ TOWN;






Early D5:

Others: Monstr doesn't think Zack is bussing Schema out of Fenn & Schema;

Town:
Lean Town:
Null:
Lean Scum:
Scum:

Others: Monstr says Riedquat or dice, or Fenn, or Visor, maybe even Monty, could be Zack's partners;

Special: Monstr scan claim:
N1 atheotes v
N2 Barto w
N3 cuth
N4 Zack w

[Askthepizzaguy]

Dicetosser, there's only so much the game host can do, they're not online all the time, they have to sleep and go to work or school too, they also sometimes wake up and find 20 new pages in the thread. We don't have the tools here we have at a site like MU to make tally keeping easy.

I recognize it can be frustrating going a long time without an official vote count, but believe me, the game hosts are usually doing all they can.

I'm a lazy gobshite, I've been pampered by automatic vote counters on other websites for too long, then I decided to host a game where it's got three things to count with different colors so it would break the vote counter programs, because if there's one thing I have, it's FORESIGHT.

[Askthepizzaguy]

So who is blindfolded white? The game host? :dizzy2:

In the game of chess, you can never let your adversary see your pieces.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Oh, one last bit of moderator greentext (inb4 powertripping fascist):

I'm never going to officially, as moderator, ask people to cut down on their level of posting (unofficially though, as player, all bets are off). That said, especially in these high-volume games, I *am* going to ask that all posts remain on topic. We already had one drop-out happen due to people being unable to keep up, if a page or so is taken up by two or three people talking about the weather or fan theories or something completely unrelated to mafia, it doesn't help out anyone.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Can I spam a lot of posts about politics? Especially insulting ones about all the people who-

Pizza didn't even finish this post before GH nuked it.

[El Barto]

Pizza mentioned somewhere else a few weeks ago that spreading votes on day 1 is an effective way of catching the mafia, and I think this game showed that he was right- the votes were all over the place, and more importantly, only 3 of them actually counted, and on day 1 in particular it wasn't easy to see which 3 were going to count. Things could swing around pretty rapidly with just a few people changing their minds, and that meant we were always under pressure. Barto and I didn't react to always being under pressure as well.
I simply wasn't around to react. In the last 18 hours of any game I was off doing other stuff and in the few hours at night that I had for the first week I was still GMing elsewhere.

[Choxorn]

For all the troubles this game had, I had fun playing with all of you, at least for the brief period I was actually playing, and I hope next time I last a little longer.

[Jabbz]

One thing though, why did you kill Jabbz N4 rather than Monstr or atheotes? I think I even had that big analysis post for potential killers that ruled you out because you wouldn't do it just out of spite!

This. Inquiring minds are dying (or already died, semantics) to know.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Pizza mentioned somewhere else a few weeks ago that spreading votes on day 1 is an effective way of catching the mafia, and I think this game showed that he was right- the votes were all over the place, and more importantly, only 3 of them actually counted, and on day 1 in particular it wasn't easy to see which 3 were going to count. Things could swing around pretty rapidly with just a few people changing their minds, and that meant we were always under pressure. Barto and I didn't react to always being under pressure as well.

Big bandwagons means less tension. The tension even disappears when the vote is on a scum.

Tension is a big concept in chess but also in mafia. Keeping tension in the game can cause problems for your opponent, both in terms of giving them more to have to calculate every move, but also, giving them more things to stress out about.

If the tally is low, every "piece" is in danger. And you can get scumbags in check with maybe one vote switch, giving each villager the power to be heroic.

[Askthepizzaguy]

One thing that can be under-appreciated is not just the tension from mafia being in danger, but the tension from the mafia being in not insurmountable danger, where they have the dangling carrot of lynching a townie as the prize that round. If the tally allows a townie to be lynched with a single vote change, but a scum is still in danger, that presents a decision to the mafia that they must make or they must ignore, and that makes them stress a bit.

Contrariwise, put them up by five votes, and they begin to accept their fate a bit more, and go into anti-spew. And their teammates know there's little they can do to save their ailing teammate, so they don't feel the stress of trying to.

This game's tally mechanics were a bit different, but the chancellorship, persuading others who to lynch, and the representative seats were all worthy things to try for.

[Renata]

I loved the idea of drafting an unwilling person into a position of power, and Cass's own unique personality fit the mold of a mortified innocent bystander.

But of course that innocence wouldn't be reasonable if it were to go on for years, so eventually even she gets corrupted by power, and (as anyone would) used the moon for target practice. I'm pretty sure we all saw that coming, and I apologize for being so predictable.

I was in the car with my husband and son when I read the first writeup, and I was smirking and giggling so much I wound up having to describe the whole game to the both of them by way of explanation.

[Visor]

Wpwp zack

Gg all

Surprised at only 3 scum, though given the vote.mechanics it makes sense iguess maybe. Could have used one more perhaps (or two)

Setup is far more interesting as a mountainous though I'm not sure I want to play something like.it again
The exclusion of people from having an impact on the game and the feeling like your vote doesn't matter is kinda meh.

[Visor]

530am deadlines zzzzzzzzz

Can't do it

edit: thanks for hosting pizza

[atheotes]

:bigcry: I came in here thinking i was going to be Chancellor soon!

Very surprised to see only 3 mafia. My guess was atleast 4 and quite possibly 5
it was a fun game. Thanks for hosting Pizza. The writing was top notch as always.

[atheotes]

Well played Zack. you were always in my POE though. Always will be. :bow:

Town played a pretty good game. But to be honest we got lucky with the Choxorn lynch.
if Choxorn was not lynched D1, the game would have been a lot more chaotic as intended by Pizza. :yes:

[atheotes]

I have nothing but respect for the game host himself, I should have made that clearer but it was funnier how I posted it.

I remember one time on the discord we were talking about hosting a mafia game with all of the elements in it that had made us angry over the years, and that particular setup had at least four or five of the things you should never have in a game setup in it.

You learn that from experience. Sometimes it's a painful one.

I think we should try the all jesters game where the jesters are the town and the mafia will be able to resurrect townies. It will be a blast.

And the mafia will be recruitable but they won't win with the cult even after having been cult and helped cult win.

That latter one might have been a real game I'm still angry at like 7 years later. Replace might with is, and you've got it perfectly.

I think i remember this game and may have been part of the cult. not sure. But i remember it as being very unfair on you.

[atheotes]

...

The only paltry personal successes for my scumdar, at least, were identifying town meta from atheotes and Riedquat - but the former showed it to the town at large fairly soon after and the latter...

....



What town meta? :stare:

[Montmorency]

What town meta? :stare:

The way you misunderstood my mechanics talk early on. I argued that a certain arrangement wouldn't work out even if the town had so much knowledge as to start with the identity of the Mafia - in other words, defeat the purpose of the whole game - and you bizarrely thought this amounted to a role claim or role knowledge, and stuck with it for a while. It's a very town-atheotes kind of push.


I already mentioned "District 3 towny, District 1 powerful". As for individuals, I don't like Visor and I like Cass and DP.

As far as new information goes, well you're acting typical for town Atheotes, even if that's not really "new" from a manner of speaking.

[Cuthillius]

imdone

good game, seriously
Visor

:)
Cass_

:D i forgot about that otter
Askthepizzaguy

yup

although my play was not, uh, the best (sorry Sooh)

i always have trouble caring more than other players in the game

if the game is inactive and most people aren't invested it makes it hard for me to do so

which is always tricky with these org games

also i try to hold back on posting which definitely always totally works out great

decreases both the quality of my posts and my wim

but meh idk

you hosted well though, thanks

[Schema]

I daresay this was my worst game ever as far as reads and thread presence goes. Apologies to everyone for that one.

Thanks for the game. Might come back for a smaller one later on? We'll see.

[Monstrdude]

Cuthillius

I enjoyed playing with you and was really glad I cleared you successfully

You were a fairly obvious villager to me

[Visor]

I daresay this was my worst game ever as far as reads and thread presence goes. Apologies to everyone for that one.

Thanks for the game. Might come back for a smaller one later on? We'll see.

you better. :stare:

[Sooh]

Should host a new game with different lynch mechanics. To vote to lynch someone, you have to use ":sweetheart: Kiss: :sweetheart:" instead of "Vote:" in bold pink.



:laugh4:

I just want it to be known that I was the first one to :sweetheart: Kiss: Zack :sweetheart: this game. Mostly in jest of course, but it could have been amazing ;)

Thanks for the game everyone!

I actually think it was great for me to die early this game, because I needed the break :)

Cuth, you are forgiven. I just need to beat you up first. http://www.animateit.net/data/media/feb2013/deadhorse.gif

[Monstrdude]

I daresay this was my worst game ever as far as reads and thread presence goes. Apologies to everyone for that one.

Thanks for the game. Might come back for a smaller one later on? We'll see.

It was fun playing with you still

Gg everyone

[Monstrdude]

Is this the largest volume game on the site?

[Zack]

no

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/forumdisplay.php?156-Gameroom&sort=replycount&order=desc

[Monstrdude]

Dang 4th place

We didn't even get bronze

Try harder next time guys, dammit

[Dp101]

What the hell happens in capo to inflate the post counts to that level?

[Monstrdude]

What the hell happens in capo to inflate the post counts to that level?

Having like 40 players

[Zack]

capo 4 had over 100 players

[Montmorency]

What the hell happens in capo to inflate the post counts to that level?

Capo IV had 100+ players over nearly 3 months of play. On another site, it would have generated many tens of thousands of posts.

As it is, the quicktopics and private chats were the real scene of action. They made Zack cry sad tears.

[Monstrdude]

We beat a game that had this many players



a completely inoffensive name
A Very Super Market
Andres
Askthepizzaguy
atheotes
autolycus
Belisarius II
Beskar
Captain Blackadder
Centurion1
Chaotix
Csargo
Diamondeye
Diana Abnoba
GeneralHankerchief
Greyblades
Ibn-Khaldun
johnhughthom
Jolt
Joooray
Kagemusha
Khazaar
Lord Winter
Methos
Niklas
pevergreen
Psychonaut
Renata
Sasaki Kojiro
Secura
Subotan
TheFlax
Thermal Mercury
TinCow
White_eyes:D
Winston Hughes
Yaropolk
Yaseikhaan
These names
Were deleted

[Dp101]

Capo IV had 100+ players over nearly 3 months of play. On another site, it would have generated many tens of thousands of posts.

As it is, the quicktopics and private chats were the real scene of action. They made Zack cry sad tears.

but why. Who thought that having 100 players was a good idea, and why was Zack sad? And how many private chats were there, were half the players neighbours or something?

[Monstrdude]

That sounds like a blast to play in though

[Zack]

Capo IV had 100+ players over nearly 3 months of play. On another site, it would have generated many tens of thousands of posts.

As it is, the quicktopics and private chats were the real scene of action. They made Zack cry sad tears.

why would that make me cry? I enjoy private comms in those types of games

my reasons for disliking capo 4 are different

[Monstrdude]

PoG anniversary had like 121 players (or something)

That game had I think some tens of thousands of posts

[Monstrdude]

By the way, it is a nightmare wolfing in a 121 player game

[Montmorency]

but why. Who thought that having 100 players was a good idea, and why was Zack sad? And how many private chats were there, were half the players neighbours or something?

Free networking.


why would that make me cry? I enjoy private comms in those types of games

my reasons for disliking capo 4 are different


I cried sad tears trying to keep up with Capo IV.

[Zack]

By the way, it is a nightmare wolfing in a 121 player game

I was technically on that wolf team kek

$tat$

[Zack]

Free networking.

that comment had nothing to do with private chats, it was about the game thread and there being over 100 players

[Monstrdude]

M

LenC did all the work

We were just cannon fodder, because that's how most mashes go period

[Zack]

That sounds like a blast to play in though
Pirate Ship Mafia is better. :yes:

[Montmorency]

that comment had nothing to do with private chats, it was about the game thread and there being over 100 players

Yeah yeah, you still sad tears.

EDIT:


Pirate Ship Mafia is better. :yes:

Which one? :sweatdrop:

[Zack]

M

LenC did all the work

We were just cannon fodder, because that's how most mashes go period

I had the best opening post (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/59/puzzles-other-games/4-11-anniversary-x-werewolf-mishmash-game-thread-1602385/?highlight=#post49763751) though

[Choxorn]

why would that make me cry? I enjoy private comms in those types of games

my reasons for disliking capo 4 are different

Yeah, Capo IV was bad because of that goddamn lawyer.

[Renata]

Capo IV was awesome because I got to betray my fearless leader and become boss of the Corleones.

It also sucked because Diana Abnoba betrayed me with her own family and won the game. Not that I'm still salty or anything. Much.

[BSmith]

Here’s my $.02 on the game – particularly with regard to the volume. I’ll post it here, though I think it has application across more than just this game.

There is no reason anyone should have more than 100 posts in the first two days of a game. None.

And 100 is even stretching it. Frankly I can’t fathom needing more than 20-30 in a day period, and that being an exception rather than a rule.

We are not playing this live, and don’t need the game to be a stream of consciousness. We have a very geographically diverse player base and not everyone can be online at the same time. Just because someone isn’t responding to your post within 5 minutes doesn’t mean that no one is listening to you.

You should also take the time to compose your thoughts and write concise posts. There is no reason to have 7 posts within 5 minutes, all without anyone else posting in the meantime. If you have a problem getting your thoughts down, don’t write in the reply post box. Write in another program like Word. Get all your thoughts down, cut and paste all your quotes, organize everything, proof read it, then post that in the reply thread box.

Unless it is EOD, there is no compelling reason why something has to be posted NOW. It can wait the 2 minutes it takes to review and consolidate.

Treating the thread like a chat room leads directly to spammy posts (which further inflates the thread), and I’d conjecture also leads to the heated emotions and potentially harsh reactions. GH’s post about profanity being a gateway to heated emotions is the same thing here with the stream of consciousness posting. Slow down and moderate yourself before there is even a need to have someone else moderate for you.

As a player that has more limited time to play these days, having a really fast moving thread is very difficult to keep up with. The frustration with trying to keep up is compounded when a huge proportion of the posts are spammy in nature or are needless back and forth chats. It also makes it really hard (impossible really) to go back and review the thread and do any kind of analysis.

One RL day this game I spent nearly an hour and a half of my day (broken into bits as I can’t really sit down and commit consecutive time anymore) just trying to read the thread. I was always 5-10 pages behind, and never actually posted a damn thing. At one point I simply skipped about 10 pages and never read them. That sucks and is not the way I like to play this game.

I am a lower volume poster. I always have been and likely always will be. But when a thread moves as fast as this one it is just not possible to even keep up let alone post. It’s hard to build good reads, it’s hard to review what has been said, it’s hard to really understand the nuances that need to be understood to solve the game. It’s just not fun.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Here’s my $.02 on the game – particularly with regard to the volume. I’ll post it here, though I think it has application across more than just this game.

There is no reason anyone should have more than 100 posts in the first two days of a game. None.

And 100 is even stretching it. Frankly I can’t fathom needing more than 20-30 in a day period, and that being an exception rather than a rule.

We are not playing this live, and don’t need the game to be a stream of consciousness. We have a very geographically diverse player base and not everyone can be online at the same time. Just because someone isn’t responding to your post within 5 minutes doesn’t mean that no one is listening to you.

You should also take the time to compose your thoughts and write concise posts. There is no reason to have 7 posts within 5 minutes, all without anyone else posting in the meantime. If you have a problem getting your thoughts down, don’t write in the reply post box. Write in another program like Word. Get all your thoughts down, cut and paste all your quotes, organize everything, proof read it, then post that in the reply thread box.

Unless it is EOD, there is no compelling reason why something has to be posted NOW. It can wait the 2 minutes it takes to review and consolidate.

Treating the thread like a chat room leads directly to spammy posts (which further inflates the thread), and I’d conjecture also leads to the heated emotions and potentially harsh reactions. GH’s post about profanity being a gateway to heated emotions is the same thing here with the stream of consciousness posting. Slow down and moderate yourself before there is even a need to have someone else moderate for you.

As a player that has more limited time to play these days, having a really fast moving thread is very difficult to keep up with. The frustration with trying to keep up is compounded when a huge proportion of the posts are spammy in nature or are needless back and forth chats. It also makes it really hard (impossible really) to go back and review the thread and do any kind of analysis.

One RL day this game I spent nearly an hour and a half of my day (broken into bits as I can’t really sit down and commit consecutive time anymore) just trying to read the thread. I was always 5-10 pages behind, and never actually posted a damn thing. At one point I simply skipped about 10 pages and never read them. That sucks and is not the way I like to play this game.

I am a lower volume poster. I always have been and likely always will be. But when a thread moves as fast as this one it is just not possible to even keep up let alone post. It’s hard to build good reads, it’s hard to review what has been said, it’s hard to really understand the nuances that need to be understood to solve the game. It’s just not fun.

I'm not going to change the rules to accommodate this as that opens up way too many cans of worms, but I agree with 90% of this post. The part I disagree with is the "there is no compelling reason something has to be posted NOW" line of argument - there's something to be said for purity of reactions - but I do think overall, especially when taken to the extremes seen here, that the pros of more measured posting outweigh the cons.

[BSmith]

To be clear, I am not recommending formally changing the rules. That would be a huge pain in the ass to moderate and overall would likely not be that healthy either. :bow:

[El Barto]

I agree with BSmith. When people turn the thread into their personal Notepad where they jot down their stream of thought as they go I lose all interest in the thread regardless of my alignment or that of the annoyance in question.
It's simply no fun and I don't have the energy to just wade through a mountain of contentless posts by someone who, on top of it, tells me that it's my fault.

Capo IV was awesome because I got to betray my fearless leader and become boss of the Corleones.

It also sucked because Diana Abnoba betrayed me with her own family and won the game. Not that I'm still salty or anything. Much.
I got to do you a cool avatar, as I recall. It's still in my hard drive. :)

[Monstrdude]

Sorry I play how I play

[Montmorency]

Disclosure: After Pizza lynched me in Capo IV, he PMed me to encourage me to post dire in-thread warnings against challenging Pizza. I did the opposite, but only for a day or two. You don't get that kind of weirdness often.

[Monstrdude]

Oh and: the stream of consciousness posting got me completely townread

Using the thread as my personal notepad and "needless chats" lead to great quality of reads from me throughout the game

I tried to and in the future will cut back more, but you're missing several key aspects of all these "contentless posts" you're so frustrated with

I agree that having to skip ten pages sucks and isn't right

[Monstrdude]

I can and will post less, but asking me to change my process entirely and "stop playing live" is like asking a basketball player to start using a bowling ball at the free throw line

Sure it might work but it's just unwieldy

[BSmith]

I think here and there it is fine, but there is a balance to it. Too much and it just becomes unbearable. Every once in awhile is no problem.

[Monstrdude]

I think here and there it is fine, but there is a balance to it. Too much and it just becomes unbearable. Every once in awhile is no problem.

I agree, and I noticed when I was posting like 6 times in a row and promptly said "tomorrow I will try to post less"

I got better at CONSOLIDATING my posts, but part of the problem is my phone sometimes butchers my posts to the point where I'm not even sure people will understand them

And then I have to correct them

It's not like I just blurt out words as they come to my head, there is a ton of thought that goes behind my posts it just happens really really fast, and also I'm on my phone because I have a broken computer. I can't do too much better than this so I play with the limitations I have placed on me

[Montmorency]

Oh and: the stream of consciousness posting got me completely townread

Using the thread as my personal notepad and "needless chats" lead to great quality of reads from me throughout the game

I tried to and in the future will cut back more, but you're missing several key aspects of all these "contentless posts" you're so frustrated with

I agree that having to skip ten pages sucks and isn't right

A benefit is that most were short, so it created its own flow, but the real problem is with replies. If you have 6 posts with 15 sentences between them, especially if you're still posting, I think it encourages multipost responses that normally would have consolidated, and it all becomes confusingly entangled. Certainly for me it was the case that posts begat posts in a way not felt in games with less posting, and multiplied by 10 or 20 players...

One recommendation is to have a more consistent format to improve flow in multiposts. Another is to include a small, visually-distinctive signature in your posts. See Forum Actions > General Settings > (My Settings) Edit Signature at the top of the page.

[BSmith]

Oh and: the stream of consciousness posting got me completely townread

Using the thread as my personal notepad and "needless chats" lead to great quality of reads from me throughout the game

I tried to and in the future will cut back more, but you're missing several key aspects of all these "contentless posts" you're so frustrated with

I agree that having to skip ten pages sucks and isn't right



I can and will post less, but asking me to change my process entirely and "stop playing live" is like asking a basketball player to start using a bowling ball at the free throw line

Sure it might work but it's just unwieldy

If you’ll allow me to pick on you a little bit here… this is an example of exactly what I am talking about. These two posts say basically the same thing, are just minutes apart, and have no other posts between them. Taking a second to review the first post might have led you to add the bit in the second that you felt needed to be said, resulting in one cleaner post that says exactly what you are wanting to say. Or after writing the second post but before hitting submit you might have reviewed it and decided that it didn’t really add any new content and basically repeated your previous post, leading you to not hit submit. :bow:

[Monstrdude]

That's just my personality

And they totally say different things?

One contains justifications for individual things

The other is a half joke

[BSmith]

…and also I'm on my phone because I have a broken computer.

This does make my recommendation to use another program like Word to write/edit posts harder. I don’t post too much at all when I am on mobile as it is such a pain in the ass to do much with it. I do feel you here. :yes:

[Monstrdude]

I mean, I've tried to cut back before and change this and it usually results in people going "man monstrman sure seems like he's intentionally changing his posts or something so he's probably a wolf"

[Monstrdude]

Also, bear with me here

I think bite sized posts with less information in spurts are SO MUCH EASIER to read than megaposts that are far too consolidated

[BSmith]

There is another extreme, that is the wall of text. This can be equally as hard to read. The art is in finding the balance between the two extremes.

[Monstrdude]

There is another extreme, that is the wall of text. This can be equally as hard to read. The art is in finding the balance between the two extremes.

YA I GUESS

but I still crushed it this game so

[Monstrdude]

Fun fact there are another 600 (easily more) nonexistent posts that were in my head at one point and I decided that none of them needed to be put into the thread

So believe it or not I was absolutely holding back this game

I just need to force myself to do it more. I think what I'm gonna do from now on is leave my posts open in the box for a few minutes and if I have NOTHING left to say I will post or discard as needed

It will probably still have spelling errors because it's hard to proofread on a phone, I wish I was on a computer so I could use actual English.

[BSmith]

but I still crushed it this game so

I would argue that crushing it has no relevance to number of posts, but rather to the content of said posts.

I was lock clear townie by D4, provided a ton of actionable information in my kill choice (and really was a hair away from killing an actual scum had we lynched Cuth instead), and then successfully drew a kill in an attempt to save others that were more active and might still have useful activities (pesky other kills nullified this though). All this with a mere fraction of the post count that you had. :bow:

[BSmith]

Fun fact there are another 600 (easily more) nonexistent posts that were in my head at one point and I decided that none of them needed to be put into the thread

So believe it or not I was absolutely holding back this game

I just need to force myself to do it more. I think what I'm gonna do from now on is leave my posts open in the box for a few minutes and if I have NOTHING left to say I will post or discard as needed

It will probably still have spelling errors because it's hard to proofread on a phone, I wish I was on a computer so I could use actual English.

You were by far not the only one contributing to the high post count. And the bolded is an excellent way forward.

[Monstrdude]

That's not the point

The point is that you crushed it your way and I crushed it mine

I agree that it's not about the volume but it's definitely about the process. Where was I before I was interacting with every player individually asking them questions and answering those questions?

"General hankerchief is a wolf." I hadn't spoken to him once that game. Thats the result. They become a wolf because you've distanced yourself from them

I may be dumb, but I know this game is about communication; about fostering trust. I agree that you having to read that many posts when you have ever limited time is frustrating, but there's no way I'm ever gonna stop talking to every single player in the game in the places I see fit

[Zack]

Also, bear with me here

I think bite sized posts with less information in spurts are SO MUCH EASIER to read than megaposts that are far too consolidated

I agree.

Find it much easier to read through a lot of short posts than a few big ones, personally. :shrug:

[Zack]

And related to that, I find interacting with people in real-time is more useful and enjoyable. It's hard to read someone like Al, for example, when he didn't really interact with people and would instead just post big summaries of his reads.

[Montmorency]

But that's a matter of formatting. Judicious application of spoiler tags solves everything, and even when one is awed by the scope or length of a full post at least they can take comfort in knowing when and where it all is.

[Monstrdude]

But that's a matter of formatting. Judicious application of spoiler tags solves everything, and even when one is awed by the scope or length of a full post at least they can take comfort in knowing when and where it all is.

Speaking from someone on a phone, 90% of the time it doesn't get read from us chaps

I'm usually the exception, with the exception that I skim them for useful info

[Sooh]

Summary read-type posts are also much easier to fake as scum than natural flow rapid real time posts, so I find that it helps me townread people.

[Al Sipsclar]

(just logged in after 2 days afk, ...wow...)

I spent most of the time I had trying to catch up. Then I either ran out of time, or the thread went silent (or there were Visor and Zack relentlessly kicking Cuth). I thought the least I could do was to post my reads.

I liked the game anyway, and I do like the setup! I even think that the extra kills for missing votes is an interesting idea. I'd play again. Thanks, Pizza, for hosting, wp all!

[Cuthillius]

Cuthillius

I enjoyed playing with you and was really glad I cleared you successfully

You were a fairly obvious villager to me

yup

i don't blame people for finding me rather scummy

but gj on that

and gj on townleading

and actually being someone active

[Cuthillius]

Speaking from someone on a phone, 90% of the time it doesn't get read from us chaps

I'm usually the exception, with the exception that I skim them for useful info

speaking as someone not on a phone, 90% of the time it doesn't get read by me either

i mean, yes, glance at it and see if there's anything important

but most of the time it's just condensed fluff

[Cuthillius]

i also lol'd a little at this being called an "extreme example"

because while it is, it also isn't

meh

enjoy playing here though

gg all

[atheotes]

There is another extreme, that is the wall of text. This can be equally as hard to read. The art is in finding the balance between the two extremes.

Wait, WoT is a strategy for scum to get a town read or mislynches going, no? ~:)

BSmith, i understand your pain. I hate having to read too many posts as much as anyone. and In my case, its the middle of the night when most people are active. so when i come to the thread in the morning i am perpetually in catch up mode. and i end up focusing on mechanics or tone and voting pattern.
But people play the game the way they want to. As long as it is not spam, i am ok with it.

btw, i have also been playing at MU where a lot of people go "high posting = town". :laugh4:

[Csargo]

I agree with BSmith post fully. I'm glad Fenn could step in and take my place. I couldn't continuously keep up with the volume of the game in a way that would allow me to contribute in any decent way. I agree with BSmith that being concise is important. I'm just going to say that BSmith's post is spot on for me, and my feelings about this game. It was an interesting setup and wish I could have actually contributed, but it is what it is. Thanks for taking my spot Fenn, really appreciate that. ~:wave:

[Fenn]

No worries Csargo. Turned out my being late for the game worked out in the end!

This posting rate in this was a little above average in terms of what I'm used to, but that was enough to make my laziness prevail over rereading Day 2 and ISO'ing heavily. Funny to see how people were townreading me in retrospect, because I did not think I sounded very towny at the time :laugh4:

[El Barto]

monstrbro: It's not personal. It's strictly business.

A benefit is that most were short, so it created its own flow, but the real problem is with replies. If you have 6 posts with 15 sentences between them, especially if you're still posting, I think it encourages multipost responses that normally would have consolidated, and it all becomes confusingly entangled. Certainly for me it was the case that posts begat posts in a way not felt in games with less posting, and multiplied by 10 or 20 players...

One recommendation is to have a more consistent format to improve flow in multiposts. Another is to include a small, visually-distinctive signature in your posts. See Forum Actions > General Settings > (My Settings) Edit Signature at the top of the page.
Yeah, add a decent, distinctive avatar so that we can tell when your rant ends. Otherwise people keep the ridiculous avatars provided by the .org and when we skim through the thread to gauge the length of your posts we can't tell whos doing what at a glance.